< 1413158652 539619 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: ok, according to wiki on Nemesis Sudio, Nemsis == Master of the Hellish Yard (or at least, it describes events that are part of MAster of the Hellish Yard song) < 1413159170 357536 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413159384 639281 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I assume [nil isEqual: nil] is NO :/ < 1413159390 169692 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should check < 1413159572 399814 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I got (null) when I tried to NSLog it from http://www.compileonline.com/compile_objective-c_online.php < 1413159745 568320 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's nil, not NO < 1413159930 42575 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Although I think the thing I was reading said if a BOOL was expected, it would give NO. I assume 'expected' is in terms of casting, though? < 1413159973 324 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because (int) NULL is 0 < 1413160135 57565 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how OS X compares to something like KDE < 1413160305 998753 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Essential to [AppleScript's] functionality is the fact that Macintosh applications publish "dictionaries" of addressable objects and operations." < 1413160321 622663 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, interesting... is DBUS something simiilar on Linux? < 1413160655 305914 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413160726 505198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413160777 984824 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that KDE doesn't do its own thing any more, it just uses dbus < 1413160782 371393 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1413160809 471974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1413160813 559738 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1413161014 260822 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.69.192 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1413161017 344269 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :molecular steel < 1413161028 785464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my computer has an annoying habit of being an hour slow < 1413161038 55970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to catch a train to University at about 11pm < 1413161043 987851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was actually midnight, so I had to walk < 1413161056 692478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse, this means that the places where I expected to be able to potentially by food were shut < 1413161078 478910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I took a ~20 minute detour to go to a 24 hour supermarket, only to find it wasn't 24 hour any more < 1413161082 925349 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you heard of daylight savings time? < 1413161088 618885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually I got food from a petrol station < 1413161094 919112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, I have < 1413161104 31747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this has happened on more than one occasion; and the clock updates from ntp < 1413161105 389256 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the information. keep me updated if you stop having heard of it < 1413161121 626733 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I bet a disagreement on whether the hardware clock is UTC or localtime < 1413161123 884109 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a problem with windows < 1413161129 969564 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe it doesn't apply for dst < 1413161136 361947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one thing I was wondering about, indeed < 1413161137 833033 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a problem with windows and linux, that is < 1413161140 332082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd explain an hour offset < 1413161192 917334 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413161215 244449 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.76.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413161248 721668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow these crisps are terrible, even though they're the brand I normally buy < 1413161357 949122 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are only like two brand + flavour combinations I like < 1413161366 154991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the computer here turns itself on and off spontaneously, I'm assuming it's some combination of standby-timeout and wake-on-LAN < 1413161372 413047 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a small handful of others that I'll eat when nothing else is available < 1413161374 552536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they're the brand /and/ flavour I normally buy < 1413161393 752291 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1413161400 485601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're in date (29 11 14, which is a nicely unambiguous date) < 1413161404 486189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the packet is larger than normal < 1413161417 223732 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 2029-11-14? < 1413161422 997956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not completely ambiguous, it could be the 14th November 2029 < 1413161431 940691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think crisps last that long < 1413161454 874851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so either they use lower-quality ingredients for the larger packs, or they go off when they're close to the best-before date < 1413161482 467731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws the crisps away < 1413161489 891118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had a negative price anyway due to interaction of special offers < 1413161494 488886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't planning to buy them < 1413161494 816939 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1413161773 258511 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps it's the 11th of Twentyninember, 29 AD. < 1413161799 276965 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's middle-endian < 1413161800 692922 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that uses 29 twice < 1413161816 664756 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it expired on the 29th of Second February, 2011 < 1413161824 788970 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Polyglot14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40601&oldid=36314 5* 0390.189.54.149 5* (-30) 10 < 1413161834 897306 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't think he knows about second february < 1413161893 674311 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only happens on leap years < 1413161934 600038 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : * A complete date was specified, so use the other pope. < 1413161935 148039 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1413161952 589662 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an amazing comment < 1413161971 327642 :dianne!~hianne@unaffiliated/dianne PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean < 1413162026 133115 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from the source of the "cal" utility from netbsd < 1413162060 791702 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how dead is agora these days? < 1413162083 838575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it has a spurt of activity starting last week < 1413162095 527731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when comex attempted a dictatorship scam, and I attempted a counterscam < 1413162104 959013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only thing going on, though, and it was mostly dead before that < 1413162288 424862 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nys: wasn't Julian an emperor? < 1413162299 244838 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1413162301 573734 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, it was Julius Caesar himself < 1413162307 815664 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a calendarist < 1413162421 433690 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.163.36.90 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413162469 257260 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 14 is clearly the ancinet number of repetition. < 1413162487 109402 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what the what. < 1413162496 678238 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lettuce, yes *lettuce*, is a mild narcotic. < 1413162552 29272 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ban it < 1413162558 406982 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, we haven't come up with a scary name for it < 1413162566 972842 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lactucarium. < 1413162571 315745 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1413162575 607475 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename it to lactucarium, then ban it < 1413162577 744344 :aretecode!~aretecode@S01061859339e5f51.cc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413162592 683726 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413162829 611221 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1413163513 15286 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like lactation. < 1413163562 414584 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.76.86 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1413163581 633661 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.66.143 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413163792 944843 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413163821 875970 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you ever do anything useful with a /usr/bin/cd that just runs cd in a shell? < 1413163850 463420 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuuuh. Unsure. < 1413163902 729404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a /usr/bin/cd could attach a debugger to its parent and force it to run chdir < 1413163924 513464 :^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:91e8:857d:257b:899a QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1413163939 798967 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1413163964 460881 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could leave the new shell running < 1413164089 208052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, this is broken < 1413164100 360614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the directory bash thinks I'm in is not the directory I'm actually in < 1413164117 492835 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty easy to do. < 1413164127 204478 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The directory bash thinks you're in is the contents of PWD. < 1413164217 437806 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OS X ships with one :) and I guess FreeBSD at least in the past, going by the copyright attribution on the file < 1413164252 152413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I get bash to read a file and send it to another process's stdin? < 1413164252 468817 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe bash stats the dir it's in or something, so you can use it to trigger a side-effect with a FUSE filesystem that waits to be statted < 1413164260 680749 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, cmd < file? < 1413164263 609632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing "command < file" doesn't work, because then the command reads the file < 1413164267 954686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bash, bash just opens the file < 1413164274 711759 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cmd =(cat file), in zsh < 1413164304 373243 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, sort of < 1413164311 806867 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'm really wrong. < 1413164319 181103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: then cat reads it, just checked < 1413164321 118591 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does cat file | cmd not work? < 1413164325 841955 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you really want bash itself to do it < 1413164328 250929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413164328 425489 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :( well, 'minor'... <-- it's not supposed to be used for actual new content. < 1413183350 778314 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413183389 698630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell AndoDaan i tend to err on the side of _not_ marking edits minor. < 1413183389 865757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413183651 820635 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413183839 591061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell coppro nys: wasn't Julian an emperor? <-- there _was_ an emperor julian, even if that's not who the term refers to. < 1413183839 744809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413184259 500883 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.91.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: ah, sorry. I should have realized that. < 1413184369 44132 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.91.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the future I'll be less minor marking happy. < 1413184400 801576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1413184454 483478 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many of the months of the year are named after caesars? < 1413184494 632207 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.91.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2? < 1413184506 857144 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.91.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augustine and julius < 1413184548 250960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*augustus < 1413184556 473918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :augustine was a christian saint < 1413184574 807176 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was February named after? < 1413184590 982173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some roman god < 1413184664 792599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically july and august are _also_ named after some roman god, because the senate declared many of the emperors to be gods < 1413184683 872441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also julius wasn't technically an emperor) < 1413184715 292157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also technically a whole bunch of the caesar had all of julius, caesar and augustus in their name. or something like that.) < 1413184718 564317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+s < 1413184758 775525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok possibly february isn't named after a god < 1413184772 809934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Roman month Februarius was named after the Latin term februum, which means purification, via the purification ritual Februa held on February 15 (full moon) in the old lunar Roman calendar." < 1413184823 819745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the roman calendar just gets weirder every time i read about it: "January and February were the last two months to be added to the Roman calendar, since the Romans originally considered winter a monthless period." < 1413184850 103378 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.91.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augustine sounded pretty in my head :\ < 1413184856 555050 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.tondering.dk/claus/calendar.html < 1413184865 507932 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tondering.dk/claus/cal/roman.php in particular < 1413184899 798936 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also http://www.xkcd.com/1104/ < 1413185181 233079 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Of course a lot of the month names are different in slavic languages < 1413185195 471311 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :January is Styczeń in Polish < 1413185270 408569 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go now < 1413185290 313338 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1413185433 245667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got mostly godless months, they're more about agriculture and stuff. < 1413185434 384891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tammikuu, helmikuu, maaliskuu, huhtikuu, toukokuu, kesäkuu, heinäkuu, elokuu, syyskuu, lokakuu, marraskuu, joulukuu. < 1413185450 115274 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several of those are very unimaginative. June -> kesäkuu -> "summer month". < 1413185466 275051 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :September -> syyskuu -> "autumn month". < 1413185475 834876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :December -> joulukuu -> "Christmas month". < 1413185607 165385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And October -> lokakuu -> approximately "mud month", July -> heinäkuu -> "hay month". < 1413185703 81173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And toukokuu and elokuu are named after the planting and harvesting of wheat. < 1413185758 53328 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mud month :D < 1413185774 181979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loka#Finnish < 1413185824 450709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, what's left? January -> tammikuu -> literally "oak month", but AIUI it's originally from some other meaning of 'tammi' somewhat like 'core', because it's the 'core' of winter. February -> helmikuu -> "pearl month", allegedly from pearl-like ice in the trees. < 1413185881 814409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :March -> maaliskuu -> unknown etymology, rumoured to be something about how the ground ("maa") gets uncovered when the snow melts. < 1413185919 968524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :April -> huhtikuu -> something about forestry related to that time of the year. < 1413185977 519829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :November -> marraskuu -> "death month", basically. < 1413185998 432507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From an entirely obsolete/archaic word http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/marras#Finnish < 1413186002 644939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's the lot. < 1413186040 517828 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :death month is hardcore. < 1413186054 64394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how we roll. < 1413186257 975306 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and toukokuu (May) is something like "seed-planting month" < 1413186525 78508 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie doesn't believe in may. < 1413186733 974771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Needs more napping < 1413186846 532910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get more unimaginative than the hebrew system for naming days < 1413186869 97312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sunday-friday are called first day, second day, third day, fourth day, fifth day, sixth day < 1413187192 722854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have one block "ABC???DEF" and one block "A???F" then it can overlap like "ABC?A?DEF" assuming the alignment and areas are OK. What algorithm is usable? < 1413187575 688661 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so do Chinese days of the week < 1413188590 367113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually this particular kind of overlapping seems to be less important than just filling in gaps of blocks with other blocks. < 1413189029 656614 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However there is still at least the following: [1] A block may have an alignment and offset from that alignment. [2] A block can contain gaps. [3] A block may be restricted in where it can be placed. [4] A block can contain arithmetic on addresses of other blocks. < 1413189117 769918 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cglrkzytuxykzpqv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1413189326 759673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should this be encoded into the computer in a best way that it can be efficiently decided to put in the blocks too? < 1413189652 885179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1413189889 469967 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, there is also the case of a block being made up of blocks, so the block can have a container. I suppose this can even be used as a generalization of needing in different areas of the file, too. < 1413189899 687906 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1413190191 112315 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can a sorting algorithm work on a partial ordering? < 1413190613 104551 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: topological sort? < 1413191089 11534 :impomatic_!~digital_w@87.113.116.210 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413192441 4049 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see if Wikipedia describes it < 1413192755 50321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it looks like the thing I would need. < 1413193959 963411 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA31D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413195066 306667 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1413195122 630207 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1413195747 812642 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Viznut 5* 10New user account < 1413195798 360610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I wonder if that's "the" viznut. < 1413195881 712413 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.91.141 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413195900 154358 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1413195908 886163 :viznut!viznut@lowfidelity.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1413195930 77960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, seems likely. < 1413196099 79241 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40602&oldid=34737 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+125) 10/* IRC */ Advertise the IRC RC feed. < 1413196128 882917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been meaning to mention that there for a while now. (Not that it probably sees that many visitors.) < 1413196753 334796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1413196891 554791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I have one block "ABC???DEF" and one block "A???F" then it can overlap like "ABC?A?DEF" assuming the alignment and areas are OK. What algorithm is usable? <-- also as ABC?F?DEF < 1413196940 535106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not much idea of algorithm, although it reminds me of what i was thinking about optimizing /// interpretation) < 1413196978 987296 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: monthly reboot < 1413197248 795155 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I swear the "Mail merge" anagolf problem is made to make Haskell look bad. < 1413197264 4913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, yes, both ways work in that case. < 1413197275 442191 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that wasn't specifically my intention with the problem < 1413197279 541242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i haven't looked at it yet < 1413197320 56360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of similar to the sequence alignment stuff our bioinformaticists deal with, except presumably in this case there's no fuzz factor involved, and the solution would need to exactly fill the criteria. And I'm not sure they deal with that kind of missing data, more like "there can be gaps anywhere". < 1413197326 788374 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ghc's runtime wants to treat input and output as UTF-8, which fails miserably. < 1413197345 397307 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.86.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413197351 90511 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um, but isn't that input and output UTF-8? < 1413197361 304827 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the form < 1413197367 345116 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it seems to be ISO8859-1 < 1413197367 594886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hexdump it < 1413197368 127731 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: However, if there is a constraint that the two blocks need to have different addresses for some reason, then it won't work; otherwise it does work. < 1413197438 663007 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my submission currently starts with import System.IO;main=mapM(`hSetBinaryMode`True)[stdin,stdout]>> (is there a shorter way to do that?) and it's annoying. < 1413197450 547505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1413197455 842369 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it does seems to be utf8 to me < 1413197479 8778 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: submit a cat program, the submission form gives you hex dumps for output and expected output < 1413197485 429667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to be UTF-8 to me too. < 1413197486 290523 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it starts with \xc3\x81tv\xc3\xa9teli < 1413197497 164927 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, that's what I just did < 1413197502 322569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expected: "\xc3\x81tv\xc3\xa9teli". < 1413197517 916275 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite UTF-8y. < 1413197519 26865 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1413197532 890386 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to check if it's all UTF-8 < 1413197604 224659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UTF-8 Unicode text", says file about the entire expected output, after replacing \xNN's. < 1413197617 626172 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm misdiagnosing the problem < 1413197660 854382 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps _haskell_ isn't set to utf8 by default in that version? < 1413197670 922348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The anagolf environment seems to use the C locale, if that helps. < 1413197677 317158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly Haskell is locale-aware enough? < 1413197679 730626 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's all utf-8 < 1413197681 536094 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any case I'm getting a.out: : hGetContents: invalid argument (invalid byte sequence) for interact id. what's the locale setting there? < 1413197688 865112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "C". < 1413197701 40078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in later versions it is locale-aware. < 1413197733 419878 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ("LC_ALL","C") < 1413197738 940354 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it does that stupid thing like the python stdlib by default where it tries to interpret any file read according to your locale automatically? < 1413197742 640433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about 7.4. < 1413197753 387123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes. < 1413197788 273246 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do recall that ghc 7.4 was in a particularly bad state concerning encoding issues, 7.6 being slightly better < 1413197816 571166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hGetContents that's in trouble, so it's breaking on input < 1413197823 292873 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a C locale, the input *should* be treated as bytes, so what's that error doing there... < 1413197831 610305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (POSIX) C locale is nominally ASCII, so all the non-ascii bytes are technically invalid? < 1413197894 199053 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "äöü" | LC_ALL=C ghc -e 'interact id' < 1413197906 789831 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. : : hGetContents: invalid argument (invalid byte sequence) < 1413198003 111491 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And that's how ghc treats it (in version 7.8 as well). SIGH. < 1413198010 246266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does 'exec is denied' interact with something like bash, incidentally? Only shell builtins? < 1413198041 24180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said it doesn't apply to shell scripts, but... < 1413198080 52658 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't, it might easily turn out the case that a shell script that calls GHC after setting locale would be shorter than a "Haskell" solution, which is patently silly. < 1413198089 970646 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm sorry if this causes you trouble with Haskell. < 1413198534 179330 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :anagol isn't set for utf8 < 1413198555 315643 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the reason you can't embed binary stuff in burlesque programs on anagol < 1413198560 890776 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. < 1413198569 747207 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably wouldn't work with utf8 as well < 1413198597 356115 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it utf8 on anagol? < 1413198647 963709 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can't embed binary stuff in Burlesque :) < 1413198669 845160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map length["`hSetBinaryMode`True","`hSetEncoding`utf8"] < 1413198671 270433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [20,18] < 1413198679 106403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: slight improvement < 1413198735 941626 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, thanks < 1413198845 237868 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "import System.IO;main=mapM(`hSetEncoding`utf8)[stdin,stdout]>>" < 1413198846 836823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 62 < 1413198856 670199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, the "exec is denied" doesn't apply to shell scripts. You are allowed to look at the codes for the submission forms (it is all written in Ruby) on Github to see how it is working. < 1413198962 247222 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This also shows how the scoring for special problems is decided.) < 1413199108 846282 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "LC_ALL=en_US.utf8 ghc -e 'let in'" < 1413199110 220412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 33 < 1413199431 398435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Have you been Haskell-golfing so much that you omit spaces e.g. between length and the [, or after the , in the list, by default? < 1413199460 291159 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413199499 861553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh < 1413201735 994390 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.80.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413201931 398359 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.86.114 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1413201936 75708 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.80.154 NICK :AndoDaan < 1413202942 749700 :heroux_!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413202992 746551 :heroux!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413203018 168754 :heroux!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1413203035 91609 :heroux_!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1413203217 692440 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413203278 423164 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1413204192 404956 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan needs to golf more, so that he automatically writes map as <$>. < 1413204215 180258 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need an import for <$> < 1413204222 843247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: um what mroman_ said < 1413205989 631286 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413206003 371286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You still have over three hours to beat int-e on count the overlap hth < 1413206083 845390 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop this hth non-sense < 1413206223 943959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of doing a Befunge-98 solution that'd do it "manually" by actually drawing the squares in some empty region of the fungespace e.g. by doing *3, *5 and *7 for a, b, c and then counting overlaps by summing how many cells are zero %15, %21, %35 and %105, but... didn't. < 1413206742 363998 :conehead!~conehead@67.10.235.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413206746 360196 :conehead!~conehead@67.10.235.179 QUIT :Changing host < 1413206746 514462 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1413206855 93430 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will tell you something about Z-machine instruction encoding: If it is using EXT encoding, and if y means the byte telling the operand types, then __builtin_popcount(255&~y) is calculating how many bytes the operands take up. < 1413207089 835475 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :" 2 down vote < 1413207090 26352 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1413207092 790180 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just add a note of pedantry that may be important to some people: it's not correct to say that xs:int "is" a signed 32-bit integer. That form of words implies an implementation in memory (or registers, etc) within a binary digital computer. XML is character-based and would implement the maximum 32-bit signed value as "2147483647" (my quotes, of course), which is a lot more than 32 bits! " < 1413207103 214355 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. right. < 1413207113 164018 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> len "2147483647" < 1413207115 345297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘len’ < 1413207115 498633 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant one of these: < 1413207115 498784 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ‘lex’ (imported from Prelude), ‘lens’ (imported from Control.Lens) < 1413207119 357982 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "2147483647" < 1413207121 191928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1413207122 415166 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@define len = length < 1413207125 383206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1413207133 828395 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 80 bits AT LEAST < 1413207182 863734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it means it is converted into at least a signed 32-bit integer? < 1413207218 236916 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although an implementation could treat it differently, such as to avoid converting it at all, I suppose) < 1413207312 268194 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think his point is, that in XML 2147483647 isn't encoded as 32bit < 1413207313 680334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: You still have over three hours to beat int-e on count the overlap hth <-- i don't really have any good idea that could work, i think. < 1413207322 491923 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying < 1413207326 557487 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int8_t = 12; is invalid < 1413207330 113472 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 12 isn't 8bits < 1413207332 369932 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 16bits! < 1413207352 448099 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's what the comment said at all, it just objected to the word "is". < 1413207356 429396 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically 12 isn't an 8bit value < 1413207368 150840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably "xs:int has the range of a 32-bit signed integer" would have been just fine. < 1413207391 545863 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, probably that would have helped. < 1413207442 466443 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Definition:] int is ·derived· from long by setting the value of ·maxInclusive· to be 2147483647 and ·minInclusive· to be -2147483648. The ·base type· of int is long. < 1413207466 85454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the definition of long, then? < 1413207482 5180 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Definition:] long is ·derived· from integer by setting the value of ·maxInclusive· to be 9223372036854775807 and ·minInclusive· to be -9223372036854775808. The ·base type· of long is integer. < 1413207483 604081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i also had the idea of making an explicit list of coordinates, but i am suspected my current solution is better than that (of course, if that's how int-e beat me...) and my actual problem is with munging I/O. < 1413207489 151585 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what's the defintion of integer then? < 1413207499 730507 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Definition:] integer is ·derived· from decimal by fixing the value of ·fractionDigits· to be 0 and disallowing the trailing decimal point. This results in the standard mathematical concept of the integer numbers. The ·value space· of integer is the infinite set {...,-2,-1,0,1,2,...}. The ·base type· of integer is decimal. < 1413207515 896533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: It's types all the way down! < 1413207528 123769 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the definition of decimal then? < 1413207537 198367 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Definition:] decimal represents a subset of the real numbers, which can be represented by decimal numerals. The ·value space· of decimal is the set of numbers that can be obtained by dividing an integer by a non-negative power of ten, i.e., expressible as i / 10n where i and n are integers and n ≥ 0. Precision is not reflected in this value space; the number 2.0 is not distinct from the number 2.00. The order relation on decimal is the order relat < 1413207549 291882 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily it ends here < 1413207572 958270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That got cut off: "-- is the order relat". < 1413207597 234496 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only link to go here is "value space" < 1413207613 914383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't define what "decimal numerals" are. :/ < 1413207618 451047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suspecting < 1413207632 840695 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You are also a suspect, if that helps. < 1413207641 857477 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int < 1413207650 150884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1413207667 431210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1413207668 85114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you mean *ith < 1413207722 340342 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413207725 598748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better. < 1413207744 226007 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it looks like an int, swis like an int and quacks like an int, then it probably is an integer. < 1413207747 510703 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*swims < 1413207777 232128 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software interrupts like an int. < 1413207797 111464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SWI is an ARM instruction.) < 1413207830 476763 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if ISWIM as a duck < 1413207895 225462 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also negativeInteger < 1413207900 412808 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which derives from nonPositiveInteger < 1413207979 839481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the positiveInteger derive from nonNegativeInteger? < 1413207994 758257 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413208000 468657 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, at least it's consistent. < 1413208095 76995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should also include a separate zeroInteger type that would have a value space of 0. < 1413208131 354982 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define a simpleType zeroInteger < 1413208145 51139 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :using < 1413208183 862220 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is good . < 1413208184 938815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that also allow "00" like I guess integer does? < 1413208194 837583 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say so. < 1413208213 78456 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can also add a < 1413208217 90415 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kun (ja (näenko? i) (uimako? i) (vaakkuko? i)) (asettaa! i 'ankka)) < 1413208227 909395 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : should work < 1413208289 60194 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you define a regex that checks if a regex is a valid regex? < 1413208362 114530 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1413208372 274403 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCRE might < 1413208388 269310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kun (ja (näyttääkö? i) (uiko? i) (vaakkuuko? i)) (aseta! i 'ankka)), more like. < 1413208442 381520 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a finnish lisp? < 1413208468 907402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's (when (and (looks? i) (swims? i) (quacks? i)) (set! i 'duck)) translated. < 1413208491 758756 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, joo. Kiitos. < 1413208565 113698 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly "jos" for "if", though it might not be all 1:1 mappings. < 1413208706 697426 :tlvb!~Leo@46.195.174.123 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413208942 912089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i managed to tie henkma on http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?A014062 < 1413208982 826444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if he found the same cheat i did < 1413209185 225349 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.80.154 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1413209604 104055 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the cheat < 1413209647 983401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used a way to do combinations that only works up to a limited answer length < 1413209727 468096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is basically applying newton's binomial formula in reverse < 1413209780 897810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the answer limit can be varied; i used e=9^40 because it was the highest number i could define that shortly) < 1413209805 589499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i could define a large enough e shorter, i could beat henkma. < 1413209817 790699 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1413209820 954502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt that's possible. < 1413210108 483501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh google is down < 1413210524 467918 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/J_Arcane/status/521661553968693248 < 1413211080 580471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would Incantation be parametrised... < 1413211144 455036 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I was thinking in terms of the IO (). < 1413211338 566379 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: give me the goods < 1413211341 307864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the first element of the output in http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Primey+Factory+EX is actually ill defined < 1413211510 194904 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.69.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413211845 105367 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.75.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413211904 284130 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.69.3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1413212274 779948 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uglqleuuavmundvk JOIN :#esoteric < 1413212446 70962 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413212496 11530 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1413212496 165058 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1413212571 397312 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes indeed < 1413212607 393882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my tying solution at the moment has mapM print$1: in it :P < 1413212631 247521 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think that's the way to go < 1413212738 823989 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you got A014062 < 1413212755 924039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1413212787 581534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gave some spoilers above < 1413212796 820234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not actual code, but) < 1413212884 732450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose there's no real win to be had by trying to use 99 instead of 100 here. < 1413212900 524566 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1413212910 11289 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1413213051 613689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait... < 1413213387 537036 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, you spoiled it well. < 1413213409 916915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, couldn't resist Phantom_Hoover < 1413213429 606350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean you got it too? < 1413213438 382966 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413213490 505879 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I should've thought of that. < 1413213499 503982 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(11*)1 < 1413213501 834326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,11,121,1331,14641,161051,1771561,19487171,214358881,2357947691,2593742460... < 1413213605 250841 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, I was stuck doing (n*n-n+1)*...*(n*n)/(1*...*n) < 1413213668 428192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i tried some variations on that < 1413213681 694045 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :65 characters is what I had < 1413213772 986123 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another cheat I'd like to know, http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?prime+numbers ... I'm at 65 characters there, too, and two people did it in 20. < 1413213804 739612 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the mod(2^n-2)n<1 trick doesn't cut it, because one needs a test that works up to 541) < 1413213931 50472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what language < 1413213935 113833 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I believe there's another neat, most likely limited, primality test that's only 3 characters longer, but as usualy there may still be something non-optimal about the remaining code. < 1413213944 752589 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*did it in 62 < 1413213954 226503 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how did I do that, I don't know) < 1413214549 622463 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1413214976 949052 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.75.96 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413215059 895070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Goddamn dog < 1413215067 907438 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.94.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413215402 816690 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should try that < 1413215417 878510 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I should apply the regex solution to that < 1413215421 992386 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see how long it comes out < 1413215426 550245 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl < 1413215462 226816 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :45 characters? ;-) < 1413215469 61878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, though < 1413215486 849937 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot, ping= < 1413215487 105545 :j-bot!~j-bot@li339-21.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, pong: < 1413215495 948361 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ >.541%8 < 1413215496 474723 :j-bot!~j-bot@li339-21.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 68 < 1413215505 945824 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know, but it's the only really short primality test in perl that I'm aware of) < 1413215509 931965 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try a hardcoded bitmask < 1413215541 92019 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's not really that much shorter than a trial division, is it now? < 1413215618 770736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I'll have to try both < 1413215643 815856 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :scnr: "A double bogey isn't really that many more shots than par, is it now?" < 1413215800 836271 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, isn't the test itself just something like !grep$p%$_<1,2..$p-1 < 1413215830 28049 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem is, you can't put the prime to test in $_ for that < 1413216004 674317 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'll just have to try < 1413216019 380528 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :45 chars seems very short of course. there are real golfers here. < 1413216149 326333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One golf challenge that confused me a bit is the one to print "Success". I could figure out how to print it on stderr, but that doesn't count. < 1413216502 103440 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, good: bash: php: command not found < 1413216626 583348 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca QUIT :Quit: PROCESSED CHICKEN < 1413216723 651572 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, stderr doesn't count at all. you can produce garbage on stderr and still get accepted. < 1413216835 95444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the DOS COM programs I've seen there have exited with to some sort of dosemu error message, since it's shorter to end with some processor exception than it is to do a proper int 21h exit. < 1413216841 688081 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure. and that's useful too, otherwise you'd sometimes have to ask perl to omit its stupid "mandatory" warnings < 1413216872 738601 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what? it's a com file, you only have to do a far return to exit < 1413216874 425182 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one byte < 1413216879 789608 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might still be shorter to not do anything < 1413216885 926431 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only by one byte < 1413216895 62751 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, I assumed that was the reason. for Haskell it means that you can abort the program by a pattern match failure if that's shorter < 1413216898 618973 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of nasty. < 1413216948 439378 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I didn't know you can do ret to exit from com. < 1413216954 998500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say I've ever thought about it, really. < 1413216990 351523 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, you can! < 1413216996 95260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course every byte counts, so that might explain why they all fail. < 1413217003 339341 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: of course, it might not work if the golf does something that breaks it before that, like not restoring the stack pointer, or smashing that area of the stack < 1413217021 551311 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a CP/M thing. < 1413217023 110533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that, too. < 1413217024 542264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also in .COM, if you specify a drive letter on a command line parameter, then the drive letter will be passed in a register. < 1413217058 739498 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a register? I thought it's only in a byte of the PSP < 1413217084 512614 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have written a program for adjusting the palette which used this) < 1413217089 226185 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the PSP being the 256 byte long metadata segment DOS craetes for each program, of which 128 bytes are the command line parameters) < 1413217111 162329 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Actually it is passed in a register too, but only if it is a drive letter. < 1413217129 503633 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't have to be a valid drive letter, but you do need to put a letter followed by a colon.) < 1413217137 950197 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC also the FCB records are filled in from the first two arguments < 1413217163 199770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes, it does that too, so that you can easily do file I/O. < 1413217515 465238 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, drive letters are stored in AX, SP=0xFFFE and [FFFE]=0 (unless you're very short on memory). more dodgy assumptions: BX is zero, CX is 0x00FF, SI=0x0100, DI=0xFFFE, BP=0x09?? (I've read an article a while ago *somewhere* why this one is quite reliable in MS-DOS. Not so much in clones.) < 1413217558 194276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work on FreeDOS? If not, should it be fixed? < 1413217653 521264 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some intros assume that PSP word 1 is 0xA000, when they do thingf like les dx,[bx] in order to access the VGA graphics memory via es: < 1413217730 151591 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some even manage to make use of the resulting dx=0x20CD value) < 1413217753 303870 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: on anagolf, you can assume that some of these things are deterministic, and find out their values easily < 1413217761 680553 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know how much of this is true for Freedos. I would actually expect that it works. < 1413217780 964991 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it doesn't work, then you should fix it please. < 1413217822 973933 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.94.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413217887 707923 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anagolf purposes, does perl really not have a built-in variable with a one-character name that starts with a numeric value of 1 < 1413217896 92655 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it only that I can't find that variable? < 1413217941 319136 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there is no such thing < 1413217967 960607 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1413217970 666063 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my test is wrong < 1413218014 591528 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, oerjan has the same basic formula for "count the overlap" but completely different implementation for most of the rest... interesting. < 1413218221 319331 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan you may be interested in comparing your program to the second to the second (third, chronologically) version in http://sprunge.us/aRFh - there's some resemblence. < 1413218221 473016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413218254 616517 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a variable starting at 2, at 256, at the current time, at the pid, at the uid and gid and euid and egid which are 1000 on anagolf, at 60, and at 5.014002 < 1413218266 41634 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's one that gives an error when numified (scary) < 1413218412 992096 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.81.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413218857 673869 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan but I all my versions use unwords, and all but the very first compute a list of rectangles from the strings ["ab","ac","bc","abc"], so there's no obvious smaller combination of our programs. tricky :) < 1413218857 827579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413219029 579055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I wrote a mostly unoptimized Z80 mail merge, and it's three bytes shorter than the Perl. < 1413219052 15909 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, it's quite short < 1413219072 159099 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA31D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1413219076 816194 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those one-byte instructions. < 1413219105 531531 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, will anagol want to add ruby 2.1 in the future? < 1413219118 589352 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a separate language from ruby 1.8 I mean < 1413219152 322927 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is it a bit of a shame this channel is turning into some sort of #anagol-adjunct? :) < 1413219201 576212 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a change from the #lens-exile and #haskell-sidechannel that it usually is :P < 1413219222 682702 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see you sourced a replacement finn < 1413219311 411866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: If you mean J_Arcane, I had nothing to do with that, but it's certainly very coincidental. < 1413219326 755240 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, I mean the one from today :p < 1413219328 547675 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1413219330 772403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wrong channel < 1413219352 331740 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many new finns even the finns can't keep track of them < 1413219356 256154 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-175-58-121.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1413219357 101066 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Oh, right, yes; but I had nothing to do with that either, as far as I know! < 1413219390 29557 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I won't be hearing anything certain about my eventual destination until maybe Friday or next week, so it's not entirely sure a replacement is even necessary.) < 1413219390 198531 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right. there is no finnish cabal and you haven't been using your shady demoscene connections behind the curtain. you're an honest person & I believe you < 1413219406 858991 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know what they say, the more finns the better (only finnish people say this) < 1413219437 948433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assure you, I was as surprised as $anyone about this. < 1413219447 772114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only assume we had some good SEO keywords in the esowiki or something. < 1413219472 452376 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft, propping up your own wiki administration skills too < 1413219508 636378 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any changes to this wiki are automatically announced on the channel, which makes it a nice way to keep track of what's new." this definition of "nice" needs to take into account seeing every other message here too < 1413219555 521728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you don't like it you can turn it off like I have done, too. < 1413219561 683619 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "accurate" sense of the word "nice". < 1413219594 84530 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: all the other messages? yes I suppose you could, the channel would be pretty nice then < 1413219631 311525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can filter out whatever messages you want, including all of them if you want. (Some IRC servers even have a command to filter out all channel messages) < 1413219671 280579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including this one; put user mode +D to ignore all channel messages. < 1413219751 60442 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07TrybblePusher14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40603 5* 03Viznut 5* (+4957) 10Created page with "'''TrybblePusher''' is a virtual machine designed (but not yet implemented) by [[user:viznut]] in 2014. It is superficially similar to [[BytePusher]] but operates on trybbles ..." < 1413219776 169299 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, new VM esolang < 1413219823 905987 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Viznut14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40604 5* 03Viznut 5* (+109) 10Created page with "[http://www.pelulamu.net/ibniz/|IBNIZ] [[TrybblePusher]] [http://countecomplex.blogspot.com|Countercomplex]" < 1413219879 210161 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :viznut: external links are [url text] without the |, btw; mediawiki syntax is a mess < 1413219887 568150 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Viznut14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40605&oldid=40604 5* 03Viznut 5* (+0) 10 < 1413219970 638043 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07TrybblePusher14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40606&oldid=40603 5* 03Viznut 5* (+25) 10 < 1413220018 200923 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07TrybblePusher14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40607&oldid=40606 5* 03Viznut 5* (-36) 10 < 1413220061 594964 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very 3. < 1413220098 235970 :viznut!viznut@lowfidelity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it seems it was too much time before i used mediawiki < 1413220126 964917 :viznut!viznut@lowfidelity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*since < 1413220140 220694 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better, it means you've been free of it long enough to forget < 1413220353 159980 :viznut!viznut@lowfidelity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that i'm on it, i might to create the ibniz article as well < 1413220422 350219 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised nobody had written an article on it already < 1413220589 678387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does the z80 have a built-in way to mask interrupts, like the 6502 and the 8086 does? it doesn't have the 8086 interrupt mask flag, but maybe some other way? < 1413220653 667524 :viznut!viznut@lowfidelity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought DI/EI are the z80 instructions to disable/enable interrupts < 1413220662 760873 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1413220696 797581 :viznut!viznut@lowfidelity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that the wiki lacks a category for virtual machines as well < 1413220728 482191 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is [[Category:Finite state automata]], btw < 1413220852 138543 :viznut!viznut@lowfidelity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow failed to add that category < 1413220917 51065 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's paid DLC only (actually because "Cateogry") < 1413221020 662227 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It has two "interrupt flip-flops", IFF1 and IFF2. DI and EI set/reset both, IFF1 controls whether maskable interrupts are handled, and IFF1 is copied to IFF2 when an NMI occurs (and a RETN instruction copies it back from IFF2 to IFF1). < 1413221137 68633 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see. is there a way to read these? < 1413221144 502028 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: As a rather curious minor feature, IFF2 is also copied to the parity flag whenever "ld a, i" or "ld a, r" is executed. I was trying to use di/ei to save some semi-permanent state in IFF2 on anagolf (under the assumption that there will be no interrupts anyway), but it ended up not saving any bytes because the only way to test IFF2 (a) takes two bytes and (b) clobbers a. < 1413221146 163062 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, for saving and restoring < 1413221176 485449 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1413221178 349640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any way to read IFF1 directly, but it's supposed to be equal to IFF2 everywhere except when an active NMI is being handled. < 1413221187 82202 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1413221191 466699 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that should be enough < 1413221210 782835 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07IBNIZ14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40608 5* 03Viznut 5* (+397) 10Created page with "'''IBNIZ''' (Ideally Bare Numeric Impression giZmo) is a stack-based audiovisual virtual machine and its related programming language created by [[user:viznut]] in 2011. [htt..." < 1413221227 785145 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Viznut14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40609&oldid=40605 5* 03Viznut 5* (-29) 10 < 1413221275 517940 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07TrybblePusher14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40610&oldid=40607 5* 03Viznut 5* (+35) 10 < 1413221331 239546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And in the NMI handler IFF1 is 0 anyway, since maskable interrupts are automatically disabled when an NMI is acknowledged, after copying the old value to IFF2, so probably providing a way to test IFF2 is enough.) < 1413221386 65242 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.71.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413221393 149572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I'm mostly thinking (outside of golf) on what a function that wants to temporarily disable interrupts but might be called from an interrupt routine would have to do < 1413221411 263746 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NMI is irrelevant, you could just say the NMI routine shouldn't call anything like that < 1413221456 564902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case I guess just a fixed DI and EI-if-IFF2-was-1-before-DI sounds fine. < 1413221472 989869 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.81.90 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1413221484 500596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but that comes out a bit long and slow then, because you have to save A and stuff < 1413221501 477969 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1413221505 597878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that doesn't matter < 1413221511 928198 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably have to save A in such a function anyway < 1413221519 682704 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's not an extra < 1413221547 274872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rst {0,1,2,3}{0,8}h instructions seem pretty handy for golfing, but also have this effect of "discretizing" the solutions, because you need to align whatever you want to call at an 8-byte boundary. < 1413221579 600019 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, you can't expect too much freedom from one byte long instructions < 1413221589 843208 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any kind of setup < 1413221717 787922 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1413223026 614883 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1413223208 684827 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1413223238 949692 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413223243 242549 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Signing in (Sprocklem) < 1413223243 395956 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1413223290 963255 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-16-154.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1413223319 12268 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :lawspeaker < 1413223322 156693 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-16-154.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1413223322 310413 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413223340 215888 :lawspeaker!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1413223644 738515 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, would you look at that, teebee's Burlesque A006520 was in fact the kind of #sL[-based thing I was trying, I just completely missed the 256g_ thing in place of my J0j.-&& -- I just made a slow-but-fast-enough 20B based on that. < 1413223806 231865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413223822 234436 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :g_ is gcd? < 1413223881 472384 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413223903 227256 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hadn't come across the builtin, and for some reason didn't think to look for it. < 1413223942 270811 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :same in the Haskell solution? :) < 1413224032 661936 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan henkma's A006520 solution comes as a surprise to me, I didn't think of putting the gcd inside the scanl. < 1413224032 815329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413224053 155608 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg wat https://gitlab.brokenpipe.de/stettberger/avremu/tree/master < 1413224074 298284 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An AVR Emulator written in pure LaTeX" < 1413224110 900647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That's just what I wrote in Forth except translated to Haskell, I didn't think about it very seriously. Though I distinctly recall looking at the Hackage Prelude documentation, seeing gcd, going "hmm, there's gcd", with no bells ringing. < 1413224113 520801 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone has written a BASIC interpreter in TeX. < 1413224195 792275 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also written Easter calculation (and many other date calculations) in TeX, and even chess game. < 1413224209 776589 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may've seen your chess game. < 1413224248 368976 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is a really powerful typesetting system, and is also probably the most portable programming language which can work same way in any computer and in past and future too. < 1413224353 833754 :password2!~password@105.233.36.245 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1413224471 407004 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: Have you? It can do many chess variants too. < 1413224587 620615 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was thinking about that kind of portability at one point, and wrote a list < 1413224591 64405 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me pull it up < 1413224689 482569 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: here's my list: http://dpaste.com/3WN0DVW < 1413224713 166763 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that list is completely broken < 1413224717 738524 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even mention javascript in browsers < 1413224725 872184 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ignore it then < 1413224750 809401 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it does < 1413224756 742530 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only it says "firefox" instad of javascript < 1413224765 393922 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: After I switched to LyX for my publishing I went poring through the repos for game-related stuff, and found several whole games implemented in pure LaTeX. < 1413224775 666993 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was even some kind of text adventure system. < 1413224813 345764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose there certainly could be. < 1413224900 108128 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Note that Plain TeX is portable to all systems that have it. Any Plain TeX file can be used in even future and past systems; the one thing that can go wrong is running out of memory, which is a fatal error. < 1413224922 370522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The amount of memory available is implementation-dependent.) < 1413224931 502344 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, I know < 1413224944 523561 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite portable indeed < 1413224963 855168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it has difference in that way from the other things listed (except for Plain METAFONT, which has the same portability). < 1413225065 178423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, but of course you can write quite past and future portable programs in C too if you're careful. and latex is somewhat past and future compatible too. < 1413225090 56638 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, plain tex is probably the most portable among these < 1413225290 546492 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically, plain metafont is probably slightly more portable than plain text, but that's minimal, and it's also a worse language because of the very bad IO support. < 1413225387 266881 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But could you write a C in TeX? :D < 1413225403 18920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: what? < 1413225443 890000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean a C interpreter? < 1413225465 345951 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I < 1413225491 878150 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not in TeX only, because of the lack of some IO stuff, plus it would be technically quite difficult to make it efficient, and you'd probably not be able to run C programs that use more than very little memory < 1413225574 652481 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right. The clock rate of that Latex emulator is in the KHz after all. < 1413225620 298724 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: BASIC is a bit easier if you don't do many pointer stuff, though array access might still cause difficulties < 1413225634 839629 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations lacks a TeX implemention?! < 1413225658 420760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wrote this TeX program: \newcount\-\let~\advance\day0\loop~\-1~\day1~\mit\ifnum\-=3\-0Fizz\fi\ifnum\fam=5Buzz\rm\fi\ifvmode\the\day\fi\endgraf\ifnum\day<`d\repeat\bye < 1413225664 523988 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1413225667 424834 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. Pointers are tricky beasties; probably the same reason why the Racket C #lang is only a toy/demonstration version. < 1413225676 768289 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, KHz range brings me back some memories < 1413225706 951772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you understand this program? < 1413225735 166597 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FizzBuzz using the date as an incrementer? < 1413225742 851872 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a simple hardware cpu with 128 memory, and the webpage says http://www.vttoth.com/CMS/index.php/projects/47 which says "this machine has less than one tenth of a percent of the speed ... of the memory of a modern [in like 2000] Pentium system" < 1413225765 492159 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an emulator in ruby, and decided that if that hw is only 1/1000 slower than a computer, my emulator is probably slower < 1413225770 420682 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can you make you blsq program output abacabadabacaba... instead? < 1413225778 965554 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turns out my emulator is probabyl faster, that 1/1000 is just an understatement < 1413225783 604658 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: It does reuse that register in fact, as well as some other registers previously used for other purpose. < 1413225786 447171 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hardware is actually much slower < 1413225813 300430 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Seeing a 4-bit CPU makes me think of the multiple CPUs built in Powder Toy. < 1413225834 788877 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to try slow, try emulating individual electrons/light-pulses one at a time in a particle physics engine. :D < 1413225840 600802 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, I don't know what \day does < 1413225874 114144 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It is just a built-in count register, initialized with the current day of the month (although this program reinitializes it). < 1413225906 396194 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I see < 1413225929 930229 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, \showthe\day says 13 < 1413226002 570891 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you use \mit as another such register. ouch < 1413226017 764570 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do these like have the shortest names or something? < 1413226020 984223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, \mit isn't a register. < 1413226024 502021 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413226028 391354 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still a count-like thing < 1413226053 880556 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're certainly shorter than \finalhyphendemerits < 1413226070 39980 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, fizbuzz! < 1413226070 196489 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it isn't. It is used to change the current font family in math mode (the font won't change if it isn't in math mode). < 1413226141 656901 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes, but so? can't you still set it a count, as long as it's between 0 and 16? < 1413226156 914869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/JAPV well that's just great < 1413226157 239053 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you mean the \fam register? < 1413226159 948567 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1413226161 408510 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1413226165 449686 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so \mit assigns to \fam < 1413226167 786623 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1413226170 321750 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1413226190 71486 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1413226199 986715 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have to understand the \ifvmode part, that's probabyl some trick < 1413226215 331674 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the \endgraf < 1413226225 61082 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.71.79 NICK :AndoDaan < 1413226242 742109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The \endgraf means the same as \par (or a blank line), but \par cannot be used here. < 1413226244 284675 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't seem to output anything anywere, so what changes away from vertical mode? < 1413226254 471710 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1413226262 848388 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because \long < 1413226288 830871 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the Fizz and Buzz are output < 1413226304 139674 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they change to horizontal mode < 1413226305 472295 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1413226306 637850 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1413226318 432524 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this will output to successive lines in the dvi output < 1413226322 12894 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice hack < 1413226356 903039 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 lines, that probably needs more than one page, but no problem < 1413226364 325510 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-159-15.42-151.net24.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1413226414 982391 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is the \newcount worth? is there no other short enough register, when it appears three times? < 1413226421 854999 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's believable < 1413226422 938812 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1413226433 746249 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, this is an interesting piece of code < 1413226638 542340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another hack I have seen somewhere else, is if you want to cancel a brace that comes after a macro expansion, you can write: \romannumeral-` < 1413226653 106161 :aretecode!~aretecode@S01061859339e5f51.cc.shawcable.net QUIT :Quit: Toodaloo < 1413227124 336599 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF93026.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413227277 458041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read some people wanted multiple kind of marks (apparently Knuth wanted to add it in, but didn't); I have managed to imitate having multiple kind of marks by using insertions; these insertions contain only marks and page breaks. < 1413227387 875769 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1413227579 786688 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413229492 651946 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413229668 608884 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-175-58-121.play-internet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1413230232 987248 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-175-58-121.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1413230466 651160 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1413230809 781513 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, this calendar program I did with TeX is implementing not only the Julian and Gregorian calendar, but also Discordian. You can assign special days using such specifications as "\Discord72.", "\Easter \Before\Fri", "\First\Mon\Sep", "\Oct31", "\Easter \Minus46", "\May24 \BeforeOn\Mon", etc. Ordinal dates are also implemented. < 1413230935 329594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many presets implemented: \DiscordianTraditional \DiscordianModern \CanadaNationwideStatutoryHolidays \CanadaCommon \Alberta \BritishColumbia \Manitoba \NorthwestTerritories \Nunavut \Ontario \PrinceEdwardIsland \Saskatchewan \Yukon \UnitedStates \Japan \EnglishNames \CharlemagneNames \GermanNames \JulianNames \OldTurkmenNames \NewTurkmenNames \OldZorkNames \NewZorkNames < 1413230961 348872 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are multiple discordian calendars? < 1413230997 618756 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not \Quebec???) < 1413231013 58777 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot Quebec, as well as a number of other things, sorry. < 1413231043 557680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I know the special days for Quebec I should put it in. < 1413231149 681583 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The \DiscordianModern command just adds some more special days on to \DiscordianTraditional, though. However you can specify the Julian-based or Gregorian-based Discordian calendar by typing \julian or \gregorian and then type \discordian. < 1413231217 259670 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF93026.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1413231283 758911 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA49B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413231315 785631 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we have that many special days relatively to the other provinces and territories. Fête des Patriotes or something, maybe? < 1413231334 361061 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413231358 606504 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Patriots%27_Day < 1413231403 859312 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and obviously the St-Jean on June 24.) < 1413231693 365361 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1413231817 626554 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413231860 474675 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you hand-code in hex codes the .EXE program that can read the first byte from stdin and then to terminate immediately with that value as the exit code? Also, how to do on Linux with ELF? < 1413231916 113620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The well-known http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html might help in the latter, though it only terminates with a hardcoded value by default. < 1413231995 887529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can always assemble, and then hexdump. If you for philosophical reasons want to avoid an assembler, that'd be another thing. < 1413232022 483737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is a really small program then probably you don't need an assembler, necessarily. < 1413232404 872792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For x86-32 Linux, I think something like http://sprunge.us/POMA would work as the body of the program. < 1413232437 808289 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: exe? a com program is much easier < 1413232476 542263 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: But, I want to write Windows program; if it is COM then it doesn't work in 64-bit Windows. < 1413232525 548610 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you explain what these system calls are meaning in here? < 1413232584 621489 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok. I don't really know much about how exe header works, I've only ever made one with an assembler or compiler. < 1413232595 28512 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I may have a link somehow though < 1413232596 172457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :First one is a 'read' (eax=3) from fd 0 (ebx=3) to memory (pointed by ecx) of length 1 (edx=1), and the second one is a 'exit' (eax=1) with the exit code in ebx. < 1413232605 283098 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, where is it < 1413232637 73946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could probably omit the "push eax" and do "mov bl, [esp]" instead just fine.) < 1413232649 521774 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a really good webpage with lots of information about programming dos, including exe < 1413232669 860970 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, isn't that a dead herring? you can't run DOS 16-bit real mode exes either on 64-bit windows < 1413232682 28023 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :COM vs EXE doesn't matter, it's real vs protected mode that does < 1413232689 932999 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I know, but I want to make a Windows executable file < 1413232709 922494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/SXeg -- seems to work. < 1413232713 640931 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's because of a CPU limitation: x86_64 long mode doesn't do virtual 8086 mode (real mode like segments) so it has to be emulated < 1413232726 785926 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what kind? a 16 bit or 32 bit or 64 bit one? < 1413232774 926354 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 32-bits < 1413232782 693359 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: dunno then < 1413232808 36538 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely don't know how those work, I've only ever created such executables with compilers, and don't know how the starup works < 1413232811 949248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1413232848 68120 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written (32-bit Windows PE) EXE headers manually, based on resources in the internet, but didn't keep any links around. < 1413232849 459759 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know about 16 bit or 64 bit either) < 1413232872 468323 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did you write full working exes that way, possibly using an assembler? < 1413232891 532073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I forget the details. It was some sort of an exe-mangler tool I wrote. < 1413232929 165802 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I See < 1413232929 717861 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Some sort of packer-encrypter dealie, you know, that sort of stuff. < 1413232937 612786 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1413232971 413348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is rather unfriendlier when it comes to raw syscalls, you're really supposed to call functions from DLLs instead, but that's possibly not a problem. < 1413232980 926238 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days I'm not really interested about this kind of thing < 1413232981 439299 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.phreedom.org/research/tinype/ looks like a good starting point. < 1413233004 592274 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may want to do low level assembled stuff, but only embedded into proper compiled programs with proper good practices < 1413233023 302678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It seems to be consciously emulating that ELF page. < 1413233024 229003 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, individual functions written in assembler only, called from a normal C program < 1413233039 253357 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: could be, could be. < 1413233056 691721 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, it says so. "In this, I have followed the example of the famous Whirlwind Tutorial on Creating Really Teensy ELF Executables for Linux." < 1413233066 323920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I learn about the theory of how this kind of low level thing works deep down, I'm more interested about linux than windows < 1413233069 707983 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to avoid windows somewhat < 1413233084 548205 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to work with windows at job, but don't do many system-dependent stuff there if I can help it < 1413233101 25753 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.75.89 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413233112 104518 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I should try to work it on both Linux and on Windows (and also ReactOS). < 1413233125 559857 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I try to write stuff as if I wrote linux programs then ported them to windows, only omit the parts I need to throw away during porting < 1413233129 585882 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a good example to follow in any case :) < 1413233165 201870 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has good links for the PE details, apparently. < 1413233211 37885 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, admittedly I didn't do much low level stuff in DOS either. I have very few programs written in assembler directly, and they're not very good programs either < 1413233236 412199 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's nice how well that PE stuff parallels the ELF stuff, what with the interlacing of headers and all that. < 1413233407 791583 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though a bit more so, the last versions seem to have 4 different headers coexisting in the same bytes.) < 1413233428 653097 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like the most useful program I ever wrote for DOS, and it doesn't do much: http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/stickf.com < 1413233442 675053 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a COM that changes the 9x16 VGA font, with the new font built in < 1413233566 930310 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's 1788 bytes long, but could probably be compressed to half or third that size) < 1413233651 601878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. there's a dword of the executable that is the e_lfanew of the MZ header, SectionAlignment from the PE optional header, PointerToLinenumbers field of the PE code section header and TimeDateStamp of the import table. < 1413233673 292286 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(try it if you dare) < 1413233729 784549 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems handy when you need the sets of integers and real numbers and whatnot in your command prompt. < 1413233785 593690 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1413233806 590012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compiled that one .com file with GCC, though it only worked in dosbox with no segment size checks. < 1413233815 974051 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Still, that could've been fixed relatively easily.) < 1413233838 804166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a non-crosscompiler Linux GCC and all, too. < 1413233855 324169 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1413233896 168117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/KYJZ < 1413233916 773583 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wait what? < 1413233924 48426 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-crosscompiler linux gcc < 1413233926 408248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1413233930 312925 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary < 1413233948 242872 :boily!~alexandre@dsl-173-206-69-99.tor.primus.ca QUIT :Quit: ANYWHERE CHICKEN < 1413233958 529887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: You just tell it to link with --oformat=binary linker flag, and do -Ttext=0x100 to kinda-fake "org 100h", and put asm(".code16gcc") on top so that GAS knows to assemble in bizarro mode. < 1413233970 944772 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see < 1413233992 177554 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really fragile, but a nice hack < 1413233995 811359 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bizarro mode being "this is 32-bit code out of GCC, but assemble it so that it'll sorta-work in a 16-bit segment by putting size-override prefixes in front of about every instruction". < 1413234017 232800 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.75.89 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1413234032 864347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written like that, it ends up using offsets beyond the segment limits, so it'll only work in dosbox or (presumably) some sort of unreal mode environment. < 1413234044 670561 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, as fragile as running compiled code with that old x86 interpreter ioccc entry that is very limited < 1413234075 261624 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the recent one which interprets most of x86 but cheats because it stores tables in the large "rom bios" file that are needed to interpret x86 instructions < 1413234079 718253 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that old one < 1413234124 657848 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413234133 958889 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the new one should have won. It's so cheating. < 1413234186 39439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was less cheating than what I expected from all the indignation (though I've entirely forgotten the details), but I can certainly understand the objections. < 1413234404 705379 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1413234586 448908 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413235129 634369 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413235505 327890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1413235553 831974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1413235553 985336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e said 4h 48m 52s ago: you may be interested in comparing your program to the second to the second (third, chronologically) version in http://sprunge.us/aRFh - there's some resemblence. < 1413235553 985493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e said 4h 38m 16s ago: but I all my versions use unwords, and all but the very first compute a list of rectangles from the strings ["ab","ac","bc","abc"], so there's no obvious smaller combination of our programs. tricky :) < 1413235553 985581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e said 3h 12m 1s ago: henkma's A006520 solution comes as a surprise to me, I didn't think of putting the gcd inside the scanl. < 1413236017 398726 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.125 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1413236240 143967 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.90.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413236464 542707 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413236632 869474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e your third version resembles the one i had before i realized o would be zipWith if i changed from tuples to lists < 1413236633 47909 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413237572 317241 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1413237652 415635 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413237667 782688 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413237984 723676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e after shortening my own version slightly by flattening the list similarly to you, i conclude that your version is better on _both_ IO and math side < 1413237984 914439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413238061 336254 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.92.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413238067 783652 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413238088 498587 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413238186 209667 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.90.74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413238419 253444 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw JOIN :#esoteric < 1413238431 91871 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this esoteric? < 1413238439 664836 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric what? < 1413238459 518553 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome somelauw < 1413238466 233761 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413238474 223097 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, programming languages, anyway < 1413238488 921080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie! < 1413238499 169549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Roald Dahl. < 1413238512 90875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alternatively Gregor) < 1413238515 572844 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :like brainfuck, whitespace, lolcode, c--, things like that? < 1413238519 212283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1413238585 116811 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.----.----------.++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1413238588 431313 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-131-10-190.swo.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1413238600 430502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf [-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.----.----------.++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1413238609 8068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1413238615 340139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO KILLED ALL OR BOTS < 1413238620 256191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bf [-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.----.----------.++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1413238620 409531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : okay < 1413238621 665941 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^who < 1413238626 262101 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are supposed to be bot commands, if you're wondering, Somelauw < 1413238627 429054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OUR < 1413238631 227815 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1413238644 667717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except trusty lambdabot < 1413238644 956272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the android killed all the ordroods hth < 1413238649 401339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordroids < 1413238656 638801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :androids < 1413238658 557642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1413238671 665305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1413238673 38453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're such a drood < 1413238726 156446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :looj i'm typing on a phone < 1413238733 617997 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bf -[+.] < 1413238733 771286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Done. < 1413238738 377048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was an acceptable pun < 1413238755 163280 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bf +[.+] < 1413238755 316662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghij... < 1413238766 664759 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hi < < 1413238767 714311 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.hi: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1413238772 477757 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a living bot! < 1413238774 557908 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bf -[.-] < 1413238774 711246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ~}|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:987654... < 1413238776 543844 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the important things are running < 1413238795 16395 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a logbot < 1413238808 27497 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 wrapping at least < 1413238870 832149 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^welcome < 1413238874 259546 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@welcome < 1413238874 412955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1413238884 864943 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok whatever just imagine you were welcomed by a robot < 1413238905 421259 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1413238909 470176 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1413238923 528165 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you favourite esoteric langs? < 1413238926 714142 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :your* < 1413238932 725237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tervetuloa Somelauw < 1413238954 738485 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eodermdrome, funge, gravity < 1413238963 369231 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also throat singing < 1413239038 503639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: spivak is such a tiny book < 1413239049 286017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expected it to be big like spivak < 1413239054 364159 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it wsa recommended to me it was named as "smaller spivak" < 1413239150 250021 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter spivak, actually < 1413239170 4100 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it makes you feel better, that thing i showed a picture of the cover of, with the albatrosses, is several volumes < 1413239179 230683 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no soy finish < 1413239268 810101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: did you know derivatives of computable real functions are uncomputable but integrals aren't < 1413239281 335939 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.92.150 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413239283 295548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oops double negative" < 1413239311 310711 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of surprises me given how hard integration is < 1413239323 135774 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget, are computable real functions always smooth? < 1413239394 836156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, derivation is easier symbolically, integration is easier numerically < 1413239404 357052 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's true < 1413239415 49619 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do love me some ball and disk integrators < 1413239483 219964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: differentiation is easier on expressions, integration is easier on functions? < 1413239526 419763 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, integration makes functions smoother < 1413239536 226972 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas differentiation sometimes gets you some freaky discontinuous bullshit < 1413239550 233138 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1413239585 568224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo who cares about uncomputable functions anyway < 1413239685 179750 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, knowing the zeroes of a function is nice sometimes < 1413239976 675911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :next you'll want to decide any predicate about the reals < 1413240918 414290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1413241442 704971 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.81.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413241513 563895 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413241600 768412 :t1vb!~Leo@c-2ec3a3a4-74736162.cust.telenor.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1413241603 286671 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA49B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1413241768 216802 :tlvb!~Leo@46.195.174.123 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413241910 798721 :t1vb!~Leo@c-2ec3a3a4-74736162.cust.telenor.se NICK :tlvb < 1413242019 4956 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413242242 434227 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: so what's with the whole chain rule = functoriality thing < 1413242291 817243 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never heard that word in my life < 1413242295 88984 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or seen it < 1413242333 465423 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chain rule apparently expresses the fact that differentiation is a functor < 1413242354 561477 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on uh, what category. functions? < 1413242390 566547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the kind of thing i was hoping you would clarify < 1413242397 330282 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1413242401 650476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, wikipedia says "the functor sends each space to its tangent bundle and it sends each function to its derivative" < 1413242423 826606 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1413242432 902257 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh how does that work with chain rule, hrm < 1413242435 926847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does D(f . g) = Df . Dg mean here < 1413242509 691889 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.163.36.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413242556 70382 :MoALTz_!~no@user-31-175-58-121.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1413242628 740069 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of wish i was high, so i'd have an excuse not to think about what composing tangent bundles means < 1413242668 683998 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the best way to get a number in brainfuck. i know i can do print("," + 48 * "-"), but that only works for a single digit and it doesn't do any error checking. < 1413242671 388173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's composing morphisms between tangent bundles, presumably? < 1413242691 30995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you're an expert in tangent bundles you probably know what those are < 1413242702 788604 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i know what a tangent bundle is yeah < 1413242709 696817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobian_matrix_and_determinant < 1413242733 18396 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-175-58-121.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413242772 733920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ord a < 1413242773 386832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1413242805 22476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which question is that answering < 1413242887 319869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you think of Df and Dg as the jacobian matrices, then i think Df . Dg is just matrix multiplication (equivalently, composition of linear functions) < 1413242917 570201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically at each point x, Df is a linear function between the tangent spaces of x and f(x) < 1413242938 546479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413242953 898069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you end up with f'(g(x))*g'(x) < 1413242976 507387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also do you have an analogy for the "holes in types" kind of derivative < 1413242985 905008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which the chain rule is much more intuitive < 1413243017 737848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somelauw: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Print_value_of_cell_x_as_number < 1413243032 26231 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i want the exact opposite of that < 1413243048 108349 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to print, but store a number in cell x < 1413243068 426380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1413243104 16797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somelauw: if fungot was here i think it has some command that does that. < 1413243115 576039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which is written in brainfuck < 1413243135 482585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I'm missing something obvious. < 1413243205 257957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my intuition for holes in types is much weaker < 1413243305 846280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1413243317 258260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, if you put a hole in F (G a), given that you know how to put holes in F and G, then you start with F' (G a) -- i.e. take out one G a from the F (G a) -- but then you took out too much, so you add to that a G a to end up with (F' (G a), G' a) < 1413243326 770729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean a G' a < 1413243340 272977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you just wanted to take one a out of the whole thing < 1413243349 998295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dg(x)(t) = t*g'(x), Df(g(x))(u) = u*f'(g(x)) < 1413243376 855148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, Dg(x) is a linear function etc < 1413243415 564887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :D(f . g)(x)(t) = t*(f . g)'(x) < 1413243473 150894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and D(f . g) = D(f) . D(g) becomes D(f . g)(x)(t) = D(f)(f(x))(D(g)(x)(t)) < 1413243484 526287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1413243511 231019 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :chain rules is something like: [f(g(x + dx)) - f(g(x))] / dx = [f(g(x + dx)) / g(x + dx)] * [g(x + dx) / dx] = f'(g(x)) * g'(x) < 1413243534 161950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somelauw: we all know the simple version. shachaf is trying to understand it via category theory. < 1413243534 680859 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're talking about it in the context of differential geometry < 1413243541 433162 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or category theory, whatever < 1413243556 115243 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're taking derivatives of mountains or something < 1413243556 408517 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric mathematics? < 1413243561 485120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course! < 1413243565 194833 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's common in physics < 1413243569 552979 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it's weird i guess < 1413243640 876237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and my last line becomes t*(f . g)')(x) = t*g'(x)*f'(f(x)) if you fill in the previous ones < 1413243650 553842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-) < 1413243690 35505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now mind you, this is my intuition, i don't recall actuall reading this but i'm making up how i think this must work < 1413243694 413653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+y < 1413243770 229754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm < 1413243772 814109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oops < 1413243801 639225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/D(f)(f(x))/D(f)(g(x))/ etc. < 1413243852 665570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so you can think of the derivative f'(x) as just the slope of the actual linear function between the tangent spaces (which are just R here) < 1413243875 476876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the latter is Df(x) < 1413243922 660466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you have R^n spaces you get jacobian matrices instead of slopes < 1413244016 777914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the R^n view is probably more reasonable anyway. < 1413244058 452203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(imo saying "matrix" when you mean "linear function" is kind of silly) < 1413244076 338996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1413244090 85205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need matrices to do numerical calculations < 1413244091 77005 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah fuck matrices < 1413244097 900675 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my contribution to this conversation < 1413244134 976276 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i guess differentials should make this easy or something, but i barely get them < 1413244170 606700 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what oerjan said probably whatever < 1413244225 413035 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION computes the eigenfuck matrix < 1413244292 749824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushforward_(differential) seems relevant < 1413244354 598922 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in like the first fives pages of burke but i still don't remember it. i need homework < 1413244452 779530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my formal math education was somehow devoid of differential geometry < 1413244477 397877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one at the institute really cared about it, i guess. < 1413244492 691539 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cruel < 1413244522 836071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: Why is Khans of Tarkir useful for differential geometry? < 1413244523 832070 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only care because it turns out calculus on manifolds is nice for when you deal with manifolds which is a lot < 1413244528 494915 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :iunno this pure math shite < 1413244530 845680 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Because it's a wedge product! < 1413244566 536478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i'm not even going to look up that reference < 1413244577 783700 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Standards_Day meanwhile in prewritten jokes < 1413244588 273720 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Standards_Day < 1413244606 14883 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413244710 995231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has this feeling he hasn't seen MDude in a while < 1413244755 487657 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do tend to not appear for a while at places now and then. < 1413244782 160520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiendish! < 1413244795 183562 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At times, it's due to being busy reappearing elsewhere.