< 1413244821 143228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in norway 14 october is the "first winter day". also it was my grandfather's birthday. < 1413244823 951012 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not fast enough to proprely juggle a bunch of places.. < 1413244838 361765 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool < 1413244856 541091 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess winter would start earlier there. < 1413244876 989476 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413244878 350008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Standards_Day was mentioned just before you arrived) < 1413244969 58705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the name is based on a winter=half-year system, though. there's a similar first summer day in the spring. < 1413245016 309978 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :First thought that popped into my head was someone saying "Today's World Standards Day, AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY!" and tossing me off a conveniently nearby cliff. < 1413245085 156434 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a "winter=half-year system"? < 1413245145 265066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well dividing the year into two parts, summer and winter... < 1413245153 521374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than four seasons < 1413245179 36381 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, four seasons is tradition < 1413245188 31506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently these days go back to a norse sacrificial feast. who'd have known. < 1413245196 231922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*two feasts < 1413245250 296406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it used to be the only days it was legal to move in norway... < 1413245253 518391 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, but in that case wouldn't it be summer if Sun is your side of the equator, or something like that? Where does October 14 comes from? < 1413245270 541946 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the U.S. is going to celebrate it on the 23d instead for some reason, presumably just to be non-standard about something. < 1413245277 737090 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: apparently the sacrifical feasts were held 28 days after equinoxes < 1413245290 600131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why they did that i don't know. < 1413245321 498553 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's four weeks, which about one month. < 1413245365 794875 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that isn't the equinox either. Is it because of the old calendar perhaps? After all, Christmas is on December 25 even though, it is not the solstice. < 1413245366 313693 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess they times it by waiting for the moon to make one cycle after the equinox? < 1413245419 76032 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno why they'd do that other than wanting the season to set in a little more before feasting over it. < 1413245425 220903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a name for Lf(c) = lim{x->c}f(x) < 1413245457 272085 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: I still don't get that date, though. < 1413245480 854936 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it easier to be a power user, with scripts everywhere to do things, on Windows or Mac? < 1413245482 687493 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1413245501 179427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_calendar seems relevant < 1413245524 352972 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: On Mac OS X, you can use UNIX commands. On Windows, you can use UNIX commands if you have Cygwin, but it isn't completely the working of the system. < 1413245528 82587 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Powershell is similar to AppleScript? < 1413245528 841376 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac i guess < 1413245547 99705 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :schanchaf: Is there some kind of reverse phone book for math stuff? < 1413245551 641100 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm thinking of things like AppleScript, which I think can interact with standard GUI applications < 1413245557 404867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the primstav started on those days on each side < 1413245574 763800 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you put math in using a standard form and then you're told its name. < 1413245575 776846 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows has vbscript < 1413245585 432357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See how useful my /hilight is? < 1413245589 838851 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I keep hearing good things about Cocoa < 1413245590 244132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, probably AppleScript (or possibly Amiga Rexx?) can do it better, although yes in Windows there is the Windows Script Host, which can do some similar thing. < 1413245600 887643 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It supports both VBscript and JavaScript, in fact.) < 1413245659 344308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oerjan++ for https links < 1413245724 876269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well i've set wikipedia to redirect me to https if i accidentally visit a page that isn't < 1413245748 252478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i only see those, except for the occasional times when my login elapses < 1413245836 553775 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can't tell Wikipedia to send you HSTS? < 1413245843 663491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: note that the summer solstice is in the _first_ summer month by at least norwegian reckoning, and even if it's the brightest day of the year it's usually _not_ the hottest, that's in july or august. < 1413245858 76685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IE doesn't support that yet < 1413245881 809823 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you're using IE? Or does MediaWiki not generally support stuff that everything doesn't support < 1413246013 73823 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O http://fuckingblocksyntax.com/ < 1413246019 595292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you remember online worlds from the late triassic, but not that i'm using IE tdnh < 1413246103 530325 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh? < 1413246130 317053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have no idea whether wikimedia supports HSTS or not < 1413246173 904770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sorry cannot explain, HackEgo is down hth < 1413246275 274592 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: re L i think you usually just say it's a removable singularity and use an extension of the function instaed < 1413246386 144169 :Somelauw!~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413246393 291824 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I remember when they introduced blocks at WWDC, they said "You declare them just like function pointers in C!" and all I could think was "Oh god, why."" < 1413247110 933101 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413247463 519928 :Somelauw_!~Somelauw@f246062.upc-f.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1413247984 648371 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413248026 146416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1413248533 630836 :Somelauw_!~Somelauw@f246062.upc-f.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2 < 1413248679 384073 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-159-15.42-151.net24.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1413249045 248380 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.101.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413249072 146843 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.101.124 NICK :Guest58927 < 1413249244 295785 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413250848 24179 :MDream!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413250876 512904 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading the Sketchpad paper < 1413250903 529425 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, sutherland? < 1413250921 670128 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1413250928 997599 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is a parametric linear function "a -o F a" related to a derivative of F? < 1413250941 573398 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the videos < 1413251101 787934 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413251344 770541 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't mean parametric, exactly. < 1413251368 182647 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: sleep < 1413251404 71379 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1413251422 92511 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :take F = [], it forces the list to have one element? < 1413251462 725192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want parametricity exactly. Or maybe I just want it in a particular way. < 1413251495 722282 :MDream!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1413251497 865425 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand your syntax < 1413251498 911808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems like it forces there to be a "hole" to insert the a into, since the function is linear. < 1413251504 408830 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "-o" mean? < 1413251539 570855 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear implication, but I might be using that wrong. < 1413251559 940263 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what linear implication is :( < 1413251569 70892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means you have to use the argument exactly once. < 1413251575 748552 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1413251594 401366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe e.g. a linear function :: A -> (A,A) would force you to insert the argument in one position of the tuple or the other. < 1413251616 760202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a linear function :: A -> (T,A) would just be a T. < 1413251623 664113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it seems a lot like a derivative. < 1413251643 844641 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't force you to insert the argument in one position or the other < 1413251653 729151 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like you want a "neutral element" that's not linear < 1413251655 361032 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fill the rest < 1413251665 601496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neutral? < 1413251665 754896 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a -> a -o F a < 1413251670 868753 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your example < 1413251676 225356 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :A -> (A , A) < 1413251682 356045 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's linear, you simply can't write it < 1413251683 610273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a preëxisting structure, like (A, _) or (_, A) < 1413251689 441175 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1413251700 98409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you need to express that differently with linear types. < 1413251700 702127 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :my version doesn't need that! < 1413251706 75707 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if A -> (A, A) is linear, it's isomorphic to (Bool, A)? < 1413251712 273781 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a -o F (Maybe a) < 1413251712 428792 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you just insert the A you get in the hole. < 1413251713 17299 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1413251731 761026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand your version. < 1413251815 688763 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm just trying to capture that you have to pick where to stick your argument < 1413251826 249559 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you still need to fill in the other values < 1413251833 802295 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can only use the argument once < 1413251848 769636 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I think mine is right either < 1413251857 89713 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you instantiate it to list, you basically get naturals < 1413251872 33975 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even, actually < 1413251880 721020 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1413251898 207268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that you "lexically capture" the rest of the structure or something. Except maybe it's more complicated with linear types. < 1413251933 636300 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear lenses? :P < 1413251941 50056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1413251947 974014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems too complicated. < 1413251957 365494 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, seems like you want lensey behavior for capturing the rest < 1413251968 228876 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you don't really need both halves I guess < 1413251976 942296 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sleep i guess < 1413251983 60581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway maybe e.g. (A^2 -o F A) would be a second derivative this way. < 1413252000 567549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean with lenses. < 1413252022 208120 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:57:20] The idea is that you "lexically capture" the rest of the structure or something. Except maybe it's more complicated with linear types. < 1413252023 879471 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that < 1413252028 57900 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminded me of it < 1413252036 271839 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't given it any more thought than that :) < 1413252074 259419 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you see what I'm trying to get at? < 1413252127 480 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, I think so, but am too tired to really think about it deeply < 1413252144 559364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1413252226 673199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want parametricity (so a function can't take the A argument apart and mix it into the rest of the structure, or something like that -- is that relevant for linear types?) but I kind of don't (because an inhabitant has a specific rest-of-the-structure). < 1413252263 29376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm not sure what I'm getting at. < 1413253028 255577 :tlvb!~Leo@c-2ec3a3a4-74736162.cust.telenor.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1413253773 627133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically at each point x, Df is a linear function between the tangent spaces of x and f(x) < 1413253777 79336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo, like, whoa, dude < 1413254048 386815 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/woahdude < 1413254539 180914 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.70.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413254667 3200 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.81.28 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413254721 299706 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40611&oldid=40333 5* 03106.120.110.180 5* (-27543) 10 < 1413254803 400483 :monotone_!~monotone@room208.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1413254849 867426 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40612&oldid=40611 5* 0369.166.47.137 5* (+27543) 10Undo revision 40611 by [[Special:Contributions/106.120.110.180|106.120.110.180]] ([[User talk:106.120.110.180|talk]]): unfunny < 1413254921 398847 :jix_!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413254927 289730 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1413254996 649378 :bb010g_!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqrdhyawoynhyebz JOIN :#esoteric < 1413255001 351170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1413255054 332925 :Gracenotes!~person@192.241.203.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413255122 543256 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1413255207 573327 :SirCmpwn_!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1413255240 780901 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255241 300888 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255242 341648 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ijvvygmjtgmowdfw QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255242 590447 :weissschloss!~viskestel@li607-220.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255242 743921 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255242 897198 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255243 519852 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255244 377174 :applybot!~applybot@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255244 578307 :Gracenotes_!~person@192.241.203.42 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255244 578445 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255244 578512 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255244 578576 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413255277 665679 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1413255333 85177 :SirCmpwn_!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com NICK :SirCmpwn < 1413255606 799671 :bb010g_!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqrdhyawoynhyebz NICK :bb010g < 1413255760 990912 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.92.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413255924 336783 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.70.30 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1413255958 577595 :weissschloss!~viskestel@li607-220.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1413256847 905859 :applybot!~applybot@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1413257293 263916 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1413257353 537200 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1413257353 690846 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1413259193 265653 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.89.8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413259360 988387 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.92.106 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1413259373 755390 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.89.8 NICK :AndoDaan < 1413259829 160958 :digitalcold!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold JOIN :#esoteric < 1413260166 121566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also . < 1413260190 8904 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413260364 51559 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413260380 494043 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.phonestory.org/banned.html < 1413260384 187332 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, curated app stores < 1413260415 250303 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.. I'm in favor of a curated app store that legitimately possible to go outside of, with warnings. Something just for safety's sake < 1413260424 490396 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe not quite as many restrictions < 1413260434 165234 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From App Store Review Guidelines (the document is only visible to logged-in developers)." < 1413260439 394343 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's nice < 1413261057 655585 :monotone_!~monotone@room208.org NICK :polytone < 1413261124 530120 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I didn't know IBNIZ wasn't on the wiki until less than half a day ago. < 1413261134 674151 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Viznut's blog is gone? < 1413261163 743762 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one on Blogger is. < 1413261395 291600 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to make a program it can use the stdin/stdout of another program it can call, both working Windows and Linux? < 1413261466 147111 :Guest58927!~shikhin@120.59.101.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413262180 999253 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413262205 371735 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413262403 922103 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like as in a terminal emulator that uses local program and not internet < 1413262597 251738 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the same way the terminal does. < 1413262665 102789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I don't know what is the way, and how to make it both Windows and Linux (using #ifdef if necessary). And, possibly even in a SDL 1.x program, will need to call such thing < 1413262704 407931 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1413262812 298652 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1413262881 654091 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uglqleuuavmundvk PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: http://countercomplex.blogspot.com/ ? < 1413262917 646356 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the url on the wiki page is just mistyped. < 1413262930 627498 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And links to http://countecomplex.blogspot.com/ instead. < 1413263009 818456 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ol' Count E-Complex, the pixelated vampire. < 1413263967 410750 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1413264159 399493 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413264819 197041 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie NICK :fizzie < 1413265124 271206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265127 978921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one. < 1413265168 219294 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265172 26121 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's another. < 1413265187 545391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I see. < 1413265238 450402 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413265238 450518 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413265238 450584 :polytone!~monotone@room208.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413265239 27492 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413265239 533386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413265239 686632 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413265239 839890 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413265568 580021 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265568 795826 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265568 795971 :polytone!~monotone@room208.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265568 796036 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265568 796100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265568 796160 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265568 796220 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265769 347660 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413265812 577940 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413265813 324530 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1413267223 13265 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make a polyglot program where one of the formats is Z-machine binary. < 1413267432 135540 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combining with GameBoy probably is not so difficult, because the GameBoy header does not start at the beginning of the file. < 1413267568 429982 :thekey!~qwertyo@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413268274 471277 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKZIP format can start at any position in the file. < 1413268289 355744 :MoALTz_!~no@user-31-175-58-121.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413269415 216662 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl golf, what's the shortest way to read a line and chomp it and return it in place in a statement? is <>=~/.+/,$& really the shortest? < 1413269466 321971 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1413269637 326732 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe I can't find a TTBB arrangement of the song of the lonely mountain < 1413269881 234379 :Hexe!~Hexe@CPE-121-212-118-209.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1413269937 105904 :Hexe!~Hexe@CPE-121-212-118-209.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1413269989 782332 :Hexe!~Hexe@CPE-121-212-118-209.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1413271322 728498 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF92099.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413271585 154092 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Neat @gcd thingy < 1413271588 566840 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@A006520) < 1413271737 790942 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what's wrong with just <>? < 1413271755 544472 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I have to chomp it, as in remove the newline < 1413271785 575461 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, never mind. I read it and promptly forgot. < 1413271797 827257 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1413271873 530202 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 500{ro{256g_}ms}GO#S < 1413271880 867686 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :another 20B solution < 1413271889 294315 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loo < 1413271889 447826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 15d 6h 59m ago: but it would be really huge if it were complete. <-- i'm secretly planning to split the table when it gets a bit wider. < 1413271898 110990 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1413271900 675900 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1413271938 115550 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just PM me :) < 1413271942 707752 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of using @tell < 1413271984 82446 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also AndoDaan used sort instead of reverse o_O < 1413272002 804990 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: why are you such a fan of #q? < 1413272044 409415 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same thing as ^p (or was it p^) < 1413272055 663455 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}#q < 1413272055 962743 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1413272058 795288 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}^p < 1413272058 948867 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1413272059 180406 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1413272059 333798 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1413272085 951752 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}#q#s < 1413272086 142729 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1413272109 828593 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's the problem with using #q < 1413272117 804066 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works if it's at the end of the program ;) < 1413272146 23789 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}#s < 1413272146 177017 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{1 2 3 4}} < 1413272154 758100 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :#q just rewrites the code of your program < 1413272180 949068 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :#q takes a list from the stack and replaces your code with it < 1413272181 770945 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1413272192 677020 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 2 3 4}#q becomes 1 2 3 4 < 1413272203 727219 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{1 2 3 4}++}#q < 1413272203 880813 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1413272232 520681 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{1 2 3 4}++}#qthisisneverexecuted < 1413272232 710317 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: (line 1, column 35): < 1413272234 65552 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{1 2 3 4}++}#qthisisneverexecuted. < 1413272234 219263 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1413272247 343364 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1413272258 384303 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q1 2.+ < 1413272258 538136 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1413272259 257816 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1413272262 52529 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q1 2.+#s < 1413272262 205925 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {3 {1 2 .+ #s}} < 1413272277 523009 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q[-#q1 2.+#s < 1413272277 676327 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {3} < 1413272310 443875 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {#J}c! < 1413272310 597279 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#J} < 1413272320 554788 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {0}{#J}c! < 1413272320 708143 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1413272326 291475 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {0}{#J}10C! < 1413272326 447523 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1413272328 804510 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {0}{#J}10C!#s < 1413272328 993630 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 {0}} < 1413272398 291816 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#Q#Q < 1413272398 483389 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {} < 1413272400 870596 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#Q#Q#s < 1413272401 29053 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{#s} {#Q #s} {#Q #Q #s}} < 1413272421 88645 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#q#Q#Q#s < 1413272421 284413 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{#s} {#Q #s}} < 1413272429 443605 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#q#Q##RQ#s < 1413272429 609545 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {ERROR: Unknown command: (RQ)! ERROR: Unknown command: (##)! {## RQ #s}} < 1413272433 573964 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#q#Q#R#Q#s < 1413272433 744738 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{#s} {#R #Q #s}} < 1413272441 694658 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413272454 148946 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1 2 3{#R}3C!#s < 1413272454 356142 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 1 1 3 2 1} < 1413272476 266909 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.89.8 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1413272642 43531 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: https://diogomonica.com/posts/password-security-why-the-horse-battery-staple-is-not-correct/ < 1413272647 819883 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? This guy gets it. < 1413272662 739555 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The security of password is mostly determined by how likely it appears in a dictionary attack < 1413272754 952596 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why using song lyrics is the way to go currently < 1413272766 85041 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlayItSweetly,TakeMeDown,Oh,Jazzman < 1413272815 910719 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413272834 106630 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1413272834 753747 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password is XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR < 1413272849 93393 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Hey. I think I noticed a small mistake in the burlesque lref.html: both l_ and g_ are defined as ^^-]\/[-\/ for blocks and strings. I think it should be ^^[~\/~] for l_ < 1413272858 438113 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1413272867 23671 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}l_ < 1413272867 177495 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 2 3} < 1413272869 523153 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}l_#s < 1413272869 678326 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{1 2 3} 4} < 1413272877 923445 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}^^[~\/~]#s < 1413272878 76973 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{1 2 3} 4} < 1413272883 294351 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: right. Thanks. < 1413272887 216993 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll correct it immediately < 1413272907 57088 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :np < 1413272951 39791 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is 'PlayItSweetly,TakeMeDown,Oh,Jazzman' < 1413272952 559968 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'password': The password of the month is 'PlayItSweetly,TakeMeDown,Oh,Jazzman' < 1413273117 978626 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uglqleuuavmundvk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1413273311 73254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when is `learn so helpful < 1413273322 369495 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since oerjan < 1413273337 372401 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pissed him off so he changed it. < 1413273349 805265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll take credit for inspiring oerjan < 1413273405 102076 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mroman: "AndoDaan: why are you such a fan of #q?" idk i kinda developed some blindspots, but now that i see ^p and p^ i'll never #q#< again. < 1413273461 691729 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.68.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413273649 622329 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :<>#q is the same as p^ < 1413273653 43703 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.44 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413273660 314812 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.68.139 NICK :AndoDaan < 1413273660 706279 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1413273670 373454 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :<>#q or ><#q < 1413273684 694704 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you probably could have just used <- in this case < 1413273693 313795 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<- is reverse) < 1413273712 280236 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should only use #q if you actually want to do some freaky runtime code manipulation < 1413273747 248801 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think one can actually do some useful runtime code manipulation < 1413273753 545527 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far nobody has found a use for it < 1413273786 472506 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1413273791 447135 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}e! < 1413273791 600931 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1413273809 462018 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :e! has almost the same effect as #q at the end of programs < 1413273809 764687 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.68.139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1413273827 495736 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do anything after a #q < 1413273831 169224 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}#q#s < 1413273831 339800 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1413273832 590658 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1413273835 395105 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}e!#s < 1413273835 559301 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {4 3 2 1} < 1413273841 204010 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}10E!#s < 1413273841 357281 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 < 1413273855 333516 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}10.*#s < 1413273855 489019 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{{1 2 3 4} {1 2 3 4} {1 2 3 4} {1 2 3 4} {1 2 3 4} {1 2 3 4} {1 2 3 4} {1 2 3 4 < 1413273866 778053 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- I'll give you this free trick :) < 1413273874 721412 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.68.139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't stop me trying... #Q #q #j #J are going to wow one day, mark my words < 1413273885 561528 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :10E! is shorter than 10.*\[ < 1413273903 264831 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*10E!#s < 1413273913 659690 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.68.139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10E!#s < 1413273913 812956 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (\[) Invalid argume < 1413273923 95685 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.68.139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq *10E!#s < 1413273923 249020 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (\[) Invalid argume < 1413273925 755150 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}10.*\[#s < 1413273925 908740 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 < 1413273935 606968 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}10.*\[ < 1413273935 782557 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 < 1413273944 706241 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.68.139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh just executing something n times < 1413273949 112307 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1413273969 525701 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on the ordering of the list though < 1413273986 483639 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in certain rare cases E! is better than doing .* < 1413274526 421036 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu_ < 1413274559 685930 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu < 1413274616 540760 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413274723 748980 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.68.139 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1413274729 677337 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 NICK :AndoDaan < 1413274905 205495 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2j49x1/a_cpu_emulated_in_tex/ < 1413276341 42646 :tlvb!~Leo@c-2ec3a3a4-74736162.cust.telenor.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1413277255 574606 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't see an emulator there < 1413277260 186272 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is it? < 1413277287 196169 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to think the definition of insanity was doing the same thing and expecting a different result. < 1413277302 28257 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- by that logic every language with side-effects is effectively insane < 1413277359 543962 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1413277362 481835 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit titles are links? < 1413277363 526484 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1413277547 554499 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: How's that ARM Emulator you're writing in Burlesque going? < 1413277688 832173 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible. i'm gonna make use of zzo38's HELP thingie, or divise something like that myself to help me keep this straight. writing it straight, it just gets muddled in my head. < 1413277752 824466 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413277765 641030 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd < 1413277765 794927 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"ADD" "R0" "R1"} < 1413277789 149489 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wd < 1413277789 755879 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"ADD" "R0" "R1"} < 1413277812 216852 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wdJ[- < 1413277812 410647 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"R0" "R1"} < 1413277815 337494 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wdJ-] < 1413277815 490798 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ADD" < 1413277837 676051 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wdJ-]{{"ADD"==}{"It's an add instruction"}}CNe! < 1413277837 829498 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! < 1413277840 785807 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wdJ-]{{"ADD"==}{"It's an add instruction"}}CN < 1413277840 939226 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1413277843 789413 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1413277849 666180 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wdJ-]{{"ADD"==}{"It's an add instruction"}}cn < 1413277849 819795 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"It's an add instruction"} < 1413277851 628062 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1413277853 21768 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1413277856 489046 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wdJ-]{{"ADD"==}{"It's an add instruction"}}cne! < 1413277856 642458 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "It's an add instruction" < 1413277859 761322 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wdJ-]{{"ADD"==}{"It's an add instruction"}}cne!#S < 1413277859 955492 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "It's an add instruction" < 1413277872 794642 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}"ADD R0 R1"wdJ-]{{"ADD"==}{"It's an add instruction"}}cne!#s < 1413277872 947990 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"It's an add instruction" {"ADD" "R0" "R1"} {"RO" 3 "R1" 2}} < 1413277887 109879 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw it < 1413277898 630100 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be done though < 1413277909 714076 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty easily if it had variables actually < 1413277947 302480 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been looking how to do that with cn < 1413277977 152036 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF92099.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1413277984 121294 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cn want's a block with {condition1 code1 condition2 code2 condition3 code3} < 1413278005 780612 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 2{{1==}9{2==}8{3==}0}}cn < 1413278005 934431 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{1 ==} 9 {2 ==} 8 {3 ==} 0} < 1413278027 256596 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 2{{1==}9{2==}8{3==}0}cn < 1413278027 409988 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8 < 1413278031 42748 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3{{1==}9{2==}8{3==}0}cn < 1413278031 196096 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1413278035 99748 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 5{{1==}9{2==}8{3==}0}cn < 1413278035 253347 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1413278047 946663 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, if i can keep a cn and use is as the... memory i guess < 1413278061 786778 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 5{{1==}9{2==}8{3==}0{vv1}"ERROR"}cn < 1413278061 940526 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ERROR" < 1413278073 376757 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just use a list as memory < 1413278084 707589 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0bx10.*\[ < 1413278084 902776 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0} < 1413278090 650238 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0bx10.*\[ 5 3sa < 1413278090 803563 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0} < 1413278104 534885 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0bx10.*\[ 5 3sa6 4sa < 1413278104 688275 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {0 0 0 5 6 0 0 0 0 0} < 1413278149 33344 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just easier for me if i can see it{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3}}cn < 1413278157 94862 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1413278161 570836 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah < 1413278184 687781 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd < 1413278184 841244 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"ADD" "R0" "R1"} < 1413278216 772557 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1{{{"R0"==}1{"R1=="}3}cn}"ADD R0 R1"ap < 1413278216 926188 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque (ap): Invalid arguments! < 1413278219 708755 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1413278228 719117 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1{{{"R0"==}1{"R1=="}3}cn}"ADD R0 R1"wdap < 1413278229 239901 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque (ap): Invalid arguments! < 1413278231 753560 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fu < 1413278233 758379 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1{{{"R0"==}1{"R1=="}3}cn}"ADD R0 R1"wd#s < 1413278233 911911 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{"ADD" "R0" "R1"} {{{"R0" ==} 1 {"R1=="} 3} cn} 1} < 1413278256 144050 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{{"R0"==}1{"R1=="}3}cn}1"ADD R0 R1"wdap < 1413278256 297395 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{{"R0" ==} 1 {"R1=="} 3} "R1"} < 1413278264 520939 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413278265 562430 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1413278284 25551 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 2{?i}{1 2 3 4}ap < 1413278284 179316 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque (ap): Invalid arguments! < 1413278296 713937 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {?i}2{1 2 3 4}ap < 1413278296 867321 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : That line gave me an error < 1413278301 57680 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {?i}{1 2 3 4}2ap < 1413278301 211645 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : That line gave me an error < 1413278304 649589 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1413278310 311083 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd{{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3}}cn}m[ < 1413278310 464619 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"ADD" {1} {3}} < 1413278340 69533 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}{?i}2ap < 1413278340 222867 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 2 4 4} < 1413278349 760194 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn documentation is wrong! < 1413278357 232858 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd{{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3} {"ADD}{.+}}m[ < 1413278357 386166 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: (line 1, column 53): < 1413278360 851187 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd{{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3} {"ADD}{.+}}m[ < 1413278361 4671 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: (line 1, column 53): < 1413278367 181463 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd{{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3} {"ADD}{.+}}}m[ < 1413278367 334751 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: (line 1, column 54): < 1413278387 914182 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd{{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3} {"ADD"==}{.+}}cn}m[ < 1413278388 110317 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{.+} {1} {3}} < 1413278389 790881 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{{"R0"==}1{"R1=="}3}cn}"ADD R0 R1"wd1ap < 1413278389 944259 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{{"R0" ==} 1 {"R1=="} 3} "R1"} < 1413278403 540095 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{{"R0"==}1{"R1"==}3}cn}"ADD R0 R1"wd1ap < 1413278403 693408 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{{"R0" ==} 1 {"R1" ==} 3} "R1"} < 1413278411 42654 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "R0 R1 ADD"wd{{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3} {"ADD"==}{.+}}cn}m[ < 1413278411 196049 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{1} {3} {.+}} < 1413278416 193266 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "R0 R1 ADD"wd{{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3} {"ADD"==}{.+}}cn}m[++ < 1413278416 346637 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 3 .+} < 1413278419 649500 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "R0 R1 ADD"wd{{{"R0"==}{1} {"R1"==}{3} {"ADD"==}{.+}}cn}m[++e! < 1413278419 802839 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1413278439 410959 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{{"R0"==}1{"R1"==}3}cn}"ADD R0 R1"wdj1ap < 1413278439 564162 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"ADD" 1 "R1"} < 1413278442 587672 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1413278450 180590 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1413278457 39112 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe keep the cn block in the state stack and push it down where needed < 1413278465 245514 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd{{{"R0"==}1{"R1"==}3}cn}1ap < 1413278465 398990 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"ADD" 1 "R1"} < 1413278487 574448 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "ADD R0 R1"wd{{{"R0"==}1{"R1"==}3}cn}JPp1appP2ap < 1413278487 731391 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"ADD" 1 3} < 1413278545 714297 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no variables is so much pain in the ass for complicated stuff < 1413278559 791010 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :JPp1appP2ap < 1413278564 164293 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so readable < 1413278838 791973 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rushit (>-->+)*4(>[(+)*7[-].](+)*1)*-1 < 1413278839 582551 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman.rushit: points -9.48, score 13.27, rank 44/47 < 1413278964 990974 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.79.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413279097 521717 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.95.188 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413279112 514415 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.79.80 NICK :AndoDaan < 1413279182 196921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I still haven't had the occasion to figure out what's wrong there, so take all the results with a grain of salt. < 1413279535 282700 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. ok < 1413279563 877247 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust kthxbye >(+)*7<(++-)*-1 < 1413279566 853902 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman.kthxbye: points -5.52, score 14.98, rank 44/47 < 1413279699 197894 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust kthxbye >(+)*20<(++-)*-1 < 1413279701 908510 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman.kthxbye: points -4.90, score 15.28, rank 43/47 (+1) < 1413279721 97874 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust kthxbye (>(+)*10)*3<<<(++-)*-1 < 1413279723 867536 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman.kthxbye: points -6.52, score 14.19, rank 45/47 (-2) < 1413279727 576909 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1413280631 186923 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF933E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413280785 865984 :King2218!793636a8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.121.54.54.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413281789 430457 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413282424 988490 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.79.80 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413284230 686110 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413284375 736298 :King2218!793636a8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.121.54.54.168 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1413285160 885580 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: MELLIFLUOUS CHICKEN < 1413286037 667958 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Fugue14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40613&oldid=20544 5* 03188.126.200.132 5* (+141) 10 < 1413286714 769676 :j-bot!~j-bot@li339-21.members.linode.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1413286958 704918 :tlvb!~Leo@c-2ec3a3a4-74736162.cust.telenor.se QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1 < 1413287651 696558 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF933E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1413288512 8362 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1413288548 28023 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1413288548 181397 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413288652 933024 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413289236 351979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1413289340 992373 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413289372 983829 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-34.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1413289407 8173 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-34.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1413289407 161496 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1413289449 358138 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF92BD2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413289698 996426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dontaskdonttelllist < 1413289699 764147 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ c​o​p​p​r​o​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ < 1413289714 372381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo mroman >> bin/dontaskdonttelllist < 1413289715 854801 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1413289738 815465 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have irssi running on a server. < 1413289752 904516 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can read stuff days after you wrote it as a /query to me < 1413289758 991272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1413289765 205479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait < 1413289773 452178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i ping you in channel? < 1413289780 638744 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ping"? < 1413289794 846844 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like " mroman: hi there"? < 1413289795 244740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean what if i say it in this channel < 1413289808 795061 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Then I might overlook it < 1413289809 940754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the actual message < 1413289814 155333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: oh. < 1413289817 33875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1413289818 325190 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1413289838 243377 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read the logfiles < 1413289845 882782 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read the buffer which is I don't know < 1413289849 69822 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 days or something? < 1413289850 467928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry but that's not something my brain is prepared to do, since i naturally trust privmsg even less than the channel < 1413289855 338705 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how much activity there is in this channel < 1413289868 482618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always search for my own nick in the log files < 1413289872 474278 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the backlog/buffer for query lasts like forever < 1413289893 497947 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't mind @tell < 1413289905 880195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1413289906 705480 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that lambdabot recently tells me the same things again and again :D < 1413289925 457526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a problem with lambdabot not saving stuff < 1413289935 131393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which int-e intends to fix, i think < 1413289938 97901 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which isn't really a big deal) < 1413289955 302197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw does this mean lambdabot also lost my recent @tell's to int-e?) < 1413289982 143117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "mroman (use query)" >> bin/dontaskdonttelllist < 1413289982 676172 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just told me something that was 15ds old and I've already read that < 1413289983 674334 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1413289989 158407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just realized i can do that < 1413290002 821062 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way is fine. But I'd prefer query < 1413290004 797000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dontaskdonttelllist < 1413290005 448456 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ c​o​p​p​r​o​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ m​r​o​m​a​n​ ​(​u​s​e​ ​q​u​e​r​y​)​ < 1413290030 337124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that looks eerily like it might apply to all of them < 1413290034 99703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1413290035 402909 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1413290045 878659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "mroman(use query)" >> bin/dontaskdonttelllist < 1413290047 289414 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1413290051 695351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if that helps < 1413290143 669407 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this list "by convention" < 1413290147 889387 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does lambdabot read it? < 1413290159 945854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's by convention and i read it < 1413290181 571177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose others _might_ if they have as bad a memory as me, but then how do they remember the list exists... < 1413290194 258308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well selective < 1413290213 396396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can remember the strangest things. comes with being a geek/nerd, i guess. < 1413290283 122114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iwc has a poll about geek/nerd right now, and i gave up deciding whether any answer fits me) < 1413290400 654558 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :< mroman> elliott: https://diogomonica.com/posts/password-security-why-the-horse-battery-staple-is-not-correct/ < mroman> That's why using song lyrics is the way to go currently – What about obscure unicode characters? < 1413290477 784126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with obscure unicode characters is that you may have to adapt your password to sites that only accept ASCII. < 1413290514 207746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+scheme < 1413290538 337675 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other problem is sites that do accept non-ASCII but do ridiculous and unpredictable transformations. < 1413290564 536914 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How does that happen? < 1413290682 322620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different kind of pipeline for the part that sticks the password somewhere than the part that validates it when logging in, perhaps. And then there's the client-side woes. I'm not sure how you conventiently enter obscure Unicode characters on e.g. Android. < 1413290741 604386 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Different kind of pipeline”? < 1413290858 319555 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1413290860 991971 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are sites that don't accept non-ascii in passwords? < 1413290881 124945 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I could sort of understand if a site doesn't accept some low control characters < 1413290889 582555 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have had something like this happen once, where a client had broken unicode support on one platform but not another.) < 1413290908 357307 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why would they not accept non-ascii? they don't really have to do any manipulation with the password besides eq compare, right? < 1413290939 652910 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should compare hashes only < 1413290952 623682 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "my db doesn't support unicode" isn't really an excuse < 1413290972 409983 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The only way the backend inspects your password input should be hashing it. However, we know that multitudes of shittily-made sites are stupid instead. < 1413290979 637961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They need to do validation for their password rules, of course. < 1413290984 515288 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413290992 355992 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to have at least one upper-case letter < 1413290993 223718 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1413290999 446781 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode INFINITY < 1413291000 18205 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​∞ < 1413291014 353282 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't upper-case < 1413291025 860520 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Var $ repeat '∞' < 1413291027 666638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor ‘Var’ < 1413291044 375796 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what was that thing … < 1413291054 530594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: try lowe case hth < 1413291054 684303 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have a case, not being a letter. < 1413291058 6629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+r < 1413291095 743667 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: The better question: Is Ş considered uppercase by their processing? < 1413291102 794626 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ repeat '∞' < 1413291104 820071 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞... < 1413291153 560924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode Ş < 1413291153 714226 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+015E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S WITH CEDILLA \ UTF-8: c5 9e UTF-16BE: 015e Decimal: Ş \ Ş (ş) \ Lowercase: U+015F \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0053 0327 < 1413291166 235706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just checking. < 1413291176 151638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1413291241 608946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode DZ < 1413291242 450776 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+01F1 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER DZ \ UTF-8: c7 b1 UTF-16BE: 01f1 Decimal: DZ \ DZ (dz) \ Lowercase: U+01F3 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0044 005A < 1413291252 671260 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ($'ʔ') [isLetter, isUpper, isLower] < 1413291254 640686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [True,False,False] < 1413291260 457718 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, the reply doesn't mention Dz at all. < 1413291264 404138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1413291264 557423 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 < 1413291273 95530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^asc a < 1413291273 249181 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :97. < 1413291277 98355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show asc < 1413291277 251713 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>,[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+10. < 1413291298 195357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an extra newline at the end. < 1413291300 262505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ord a < 1413291300 415889 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :97 < 1413291302 667232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's considerably smaller than that thing from stackoverflow in the wiki < 1413291302 984405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better. < 1413291308 641797 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show ord < 1413291308 834448 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>,[[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+32.[-]>>,] < 1413291316 458450 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also does multiple characters. < 1413291331 128235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that means there's an extra *space* at the end, but it's less offensive, arguably. < 1413291352 864352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why we be having redundant stuffs. < 1413291363 138494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think your algorithm looks better than http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Print_value_of_cell_x_as_number < 1413291375 966877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I just copied that from somewhere. < 1413291381 395586 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :This reminds me of the thing I tried to do with idris recently, namely use a type provider to read in UnicodeData.txt . < 1413291381 614705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1413291469 650441 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out that the longer it goes, the slower it gets, so reading in the whole thing is currently out of the question. < 1413291470 422465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I have no idea from where, which makes it hard to give proper credit. < 1413291499 75480 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://mazonka.com/brainf/ perhaps. < 1413291557 424372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks identical < 1413291656 482427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this might not be the best time to try to load that link they just broadcasted < 1413291665 899750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*freenode < 1413292478 346305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'weiß' | perl -C7 -ne 'print lc uc' # case is hard < 1413292479 32934 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weiss < 1413292548 34099 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413292570 183076 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show ? < 1413292581 671728 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1413292581 858037 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 < 1413292587 224680 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show rev < 1413292587 377952 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[.<] < 1413292602 722289 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show ping < 1413292602 875816 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That Pong alone cannot stop!)S < 1413292613 350272 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1413292613 503602 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1413292636 99430 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292636 291536 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292644 375806 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *knew* it. < 1413292663 686747 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1413292666 802992 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is bool truly random? < 1413292672 440533 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292672 593883 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292681 57312 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1413292682 444392 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292682 597718 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292688 572434 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1413292692 803800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292692 957544 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292696 115511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So positive. < 1413292709 344789 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292709 498355 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292715 503767 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool d < 1413292717 771060 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's biased towards Yes < 1413292723 665500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't take arguments. < 1413292752 415379 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be weird it did. < 1413292766 671875 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it did* < 1413292768 67170 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure it's equidistributed. < 1413292803 938785 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292804 132500 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292812 467439 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292812 620906 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292826 161347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^8ball Is ^bool biased or not? < 1413292826 322106 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292837 288693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^8ball Yes, it's biased, or yes, it's not? < 1413292837 442527 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292847 73758 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^8ball Are you doing this just to be difficult? < 1413292847 245962 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292854 95190 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^8ball ... < 1413292854 248479 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1413292866 589185 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally. < 1413292874 214558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that that's not from ^bool. < 1413292880 392097 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel much better now. < 1413292885 636432 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292885 799120 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1413292891 862933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1413292898 146913 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY < 1413292910 722527 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still biased towards yes < 1413292911 987078 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292912 172235 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1413292913 975419 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292914 161170 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292916 40868 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292916 228646 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1413292917 961577 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292918 148111 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1413292920 262606 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413292922 775334 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292922 940331 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292925 218080 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1413292928 934134 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292929 87423 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292932 754664 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292932 907868 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292956 793094 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we humans are biased to think it's biased. < 1413292958 993487 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292959 231384 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413292966 182160 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1413292966 335484 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1413292972 971755 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0.5)**4 < 1413292976 504006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.25e-2 < 1413293011 826055 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only a 6.25% chance that you get 4 yes in a row < 1413293067 59154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it was random, just that it will return equally many Yes and No answers if you do it approximately 16*((2^31) - 1) times. < 1413293135 256216 :spiette!~spiette@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe66:77e5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413293135 874239 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's essentially just do { i = random() % 4; } while (i < 1 || i > 2); for the random in . < 1413293152 997933 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.85.252 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1413293287 2868 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then i == 1 ? "No." : "Yes." after that. < 1413293360 552367 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: for a pathological implementation of random(), ^bool could block indefinitely. < 1413293396 936976 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use random()%2? < 1413293410 130998 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. befunge? < 1413293412 784614 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show bool < 1413293419 10684 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413293419 326417 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.92.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413293420 341233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a built-in. < 1413293425 302295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was slightly easier. < 1413293434 436773 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1413293434 590046 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 8ball < 1413293435 74353 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :^reverb this is a test < 1413293435 227659 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tthhiiss iiss aa tteesstt < 1413293438 476138 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, befunge has a four-way random that rolls the execution direction < 1413293447 202377 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow < 1413293451 787435 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow mo < 1413293451 941397 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :02m03o < 1413293467 944795 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow BeFuNgE < 1413293468 99786 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :02B03e04F05u06N07g08E < 1413293479 378466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/JeXZ essentially. < 1413293533 759019 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < below the ? in the second one should be a >, no? < 1413293542 74732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1413293561 3595 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the fungot source code? < 1413293561 188837 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you wouldn't translate " word wrap" as " an abstract data type ( a b c) < 1413293566 85061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1413293566 272347 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 < 1413293588 815372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: No, I wouldn't, you're right about that. < 1413293589 90866 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: go away, learn to enjoy being bad at it, forcer? < 1413293596 540549 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. :( < 1413293607 887091 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use EsoAPI or something? < 1413293665 107904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's just Funge-98. < 1413293677 142364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "SOCK" fingerprint for sockets. < 1413293839 51202 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^raw hi < 1413293862 865454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also uses STRN for general easiness, and REXP for the ignore list, and FILE for the babbling, and FING to use STRN and FILE at the same time, and SUBR for ^code, and TOYS for an easy fungespace clear for ^reload, and... I guess that's it. Except it loads SCKE and doesn't use it; the whole SCKE was a bad idea anyway. There was lots of talk about NSCK that'd be properly getaddrinfo/IPv6/etc-ish, but that never materialized. < 1413293895 794474 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The reload, raw, code, save and ignore commands are all owner-only.) < 1413293914 33239 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi there! < 1413293917 179743 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :( < 1413294171 318285 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hi fungot! < 1413294196 338715 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, blsqbot! < 1413294279 999163 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : How's the wheather in fungespace?! < 1413294510 470260 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.65.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413294554 379003 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discrete! < 1413294564 277412 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.92.65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1413294582 120466 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.65.169 NICK :AndoDaan < 1413296207 950317 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1413296345 376684 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF92BD2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413296519 542615 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Viznut14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40614&oldid=40609 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+1) 10Taking the liberty of fixing a link typo < 1413296829 154476 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good pun. < 1413296885 598978 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq_uptime < 1413296886 132249 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :12d 19h 29m 40s < 1413297050 315163 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Fugue14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40615&oldid=40613 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+102) 10unsigned < 1413297087 403552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: wait what pun < 1413297289 530593 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The discrete pun. < 1413297665 389114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind tells me it's missing something, like any actual meaning of "discrete" in meteorology < 1413297693 746291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly i'm simply missing the real pun. < 1413298111 245543 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA3F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413298122 1942 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA3F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1413298131 273742 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA3F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413298392 921789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I know you're just trolling me because that's not what the post says at all. < 1413298449 962017 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does say that the security depends on how likely it appears in a dictionary attack. < 1413298517 599829 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and should consider first and foremost how dictionary-attack resistant the passwords is." < 1413298594 843981 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other stuff is trolling, yes. < 1413298763 519042 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, a 20 characters long random password is most likely really dictionary-attack resistant < 1413298784 417788 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413298810 711381 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, there's a chance that the generated password is "111111111111111111" which doesn't look realy safe and might not be very dictionary-attack resistant) < 1413298840 385770 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 < 1413298856 177941 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder at what length such a password is dictionary attack resistant < 1413298863 271847 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess whatever set length they use < 1413298867 235477 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 chars??? < 1413298875 194896 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it hard to reason about dictionary-attack resistant < 1413298931 412276 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "Qj098HNH?_sn@7894%^1$#=9/]" a good password? < 1413298988 773847 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best password is hieroglyphs < 1413299002 949823 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write simple words and nobody will think to use that section of unicode! < 1413299212 386049 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/U7xQArjr < 1413299242 91464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just ruined 974 perfectly good passwords! < 1413299260 28186 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- if your password is in there it's unsafe < 1413299266 444560 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.169 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413299348 406814 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cppafqhrcihegeht JOIN :#esoteric < 1413299417 516028 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1413299436 15922 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's in a dictionary < 1413299461 490667 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it in most dictionaries? < 1413299475 147994 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you could generate all character chains and put it in a dictionary! < 1413299525 146123 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passwords all have a common weakness < 1413299528 102667 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can GUESS them < 1413299532 276276 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of discussion :) < 1413299568 118336 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you use a soul detector < 1413299578 430638 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only responds to the metaphysical peculiarities of your soul < 1413299601 821642 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing you can do is limit the amount of guesses an attacker can reasonably make in certain amount of time < 1413299625 106006 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just picture you standing in ancient rome < 1413299633 216185 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somebody wants to enter your secret cave < 1413299633 662094 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: that's impossible in practice < 1413299639 612575 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he doesn't know the password < 1413299643 765752 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman : Is it a barbarian < 1413299652 245945 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just let him stand there and say "no, that's not it" until he gets it right? < 1413299654 231042 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, impossible from the perspective of the password chooser < 1413299655 282948 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not. < 1413299663 791300 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll punch him in the face and feed him to the lions. < 1413299667 972322 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :obv the hasher can use a very slow hash to slow down attackers < 1413299719 365786 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.70.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413299720 809642 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If an attacker can make only one attempt < 1413299743 726662 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "123123" a worse password than "ACqaQn"? < 1413299775 893123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes hth < 1413299816 458688 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a human is more likely to guess with his only attempt he has "123123"? < 1413299823 741911 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :than he is to guess "ACqaQn"? < 1413299872 223205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes hth < 1413299877 380104 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's more of a social/physicological than a technical problem < 1413299882 587934 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*psychological < 1413299935 604534 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the guesser reasons that since you're not stupid you didn't choose "123123" and tries to guess for something more clever. < 1413299968 883958 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he might also reason that you just assume that people think you're clever and did choose a clever password so in order to be extra clever you chose a non-clever password < 1413300000 601706 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.70.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a game The Sicillian would play. < 1413300040 906405 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but the provider can < 1413300073 687358 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should < 1413300113 410081 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that not everbody can provide two-factor-auth through SMS < 1413300117 999104 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since sending SMS probably costs money) < 1413300126 444898 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AT LEAST you can use two-factor-auth via e-mail. < 1413300163 688242 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can easily limit the amounts of guesses an attacker can make EVEN IF the attack has control over your e-mail account < 1413300193 361485 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you just hand-out a two-factor-auth token every ten minutes or so < 1413300270 529551 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limiting IPs to a one attempt every ten minute isn't practical < 1413300280 728264 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do it through a two-factor-auth via e-mail it is. < 1413300323 398280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't it practical < 1413300330 542504 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAT? < 1413300341 8520 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because multiple people may share the same external IP? < 1413300351 843434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1413300396 580052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about limiting to n _failed_ attempts every ten minute < 1413300400 850514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is practical to limit (acount,IP) to one attempt every 10 minutes. < 1413300404 931421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*account < 1413300433 42312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that doesn't help if they have a huge number of accounts to try, though < 1413300446 78043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. so you have a larger global limit < 1413300511 789753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why we're continuing to discuss ~password cracker psychology~ with mroman though? < 1413300668 459829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: huh, didn't fungot use to use SCKE? like... recently? (like... 2009?) < 1413300668 806056 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and that's in holidays :) i haven't done it for a master or a phd? < 1413300710 159515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:48:28 but why would they not accept non-ascii? they don't really have to do any manipulation with the password besides eq compare, right? < 1413300718 934923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if you are accepting unicode passwords you should do normalisation on them < 1413300739 13997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: unless you want to explain to people why they can log in when they type e-with-accent in /this/ way but not this other way < 1413300847 584222 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (a) don't the input methods do normalization anyway? and (b) so people really type in their passwords in multiple ways? maybe when they log in from multiple devices I guess < 1413300883 508651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: (a) all of them? and browsers not getting in the way? how much do you want to bet? < 1413300894 874024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) yeah, like phone vs. computer or whatever < 1413300927 137927 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, good luck implementing normalization into an existing system. < 1413300942 901779 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your password no longer works because you didn't type in the way we wanted you to type ." < 1413300944 156235 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat. You shouldn’t even decode, let alone normalize. < 1413301018 878258 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I don't have experience in this, because I don't really meet any of these separate code point accents. Ok, maybe I see them sometimes on irc in IPA-like pronunciation notation, but that's all. < 1413301024 957698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you can just try hashing it in various forms and then update the hash, but yeah. < 1413301046 441953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I sort of feel like due to the opaqueness of password hashes printable ASCII really is your best bet. < 1413301046 634481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually deal with languages with latin letters, and those have all the combinations as precomposed characters. < 1413301070 122056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious as to how common non-ASCII passwords are though, especially on foreign sites < 1413301084 537959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, "foreign" -- non-English) < 1413301098 349707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I vaguely recall something about OS X representing ä with a composing character in file names, and that breaking something. < 1413301109 679359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of shift-JIS passwords in the world, or such. < 1413301120 967467 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Oh d̀o they? < 1413301142 283712 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes, definitely. < 1413301147 881166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I put SCKE in there so that it could resolve hostnames for "^def ... http://..." but then I never actually finished the URL handler. < 1413301161 983058 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I just gave you can example combination that does not exist as a precomposed character X_X < 1413301164 281321 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's useful too, it really makes font handling easier. < 1413301177 999437 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does anyone use that combination ever? < 1413301186 511664 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, any language, language in the broad sense? < 1413301189 387469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so it requires people to implement SCKE just so it can not use it? :p < 1413301197 566670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what SCKE even offers. < 1413301198 227268 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, they don't have all the combinations, they have all the combinations used in (Western?) languages. < 1413301206 470246 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not only western < 1413301212 176014 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vietnamese? < 1413301212 717287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, though it's trivial to remove the dependency. < 1413301235 679563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is the freenode server to connect to listed as an IP? < 1413301239 506082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1413301248 921715 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, and all some others too, like American languages, African languages, and some romanizations of Chinese. < 1413301257 414154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's H for gethostbyname and P for poll, and indeed the server to connect to is an IP. < 1413301278 938453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you should just implement DNS in funge-98... < 1413301350 799051 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be hard to figure out the system DNS servers, though I guess it could always default to Google DNS or something. < 1413301401 776363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just read /etc/resolv.conf? < 1413301440 14109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be less than portable. < 1413301445 919792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X doesn't use it, for example. < 1413301453 251218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have /etc/resolv.conf on this OS X machine. < 1413301462 709690 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might autogenerate one for unportable programs to use? < 1413301462 986554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1413301463 139856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Mac OS X Notice < 1413301463 139994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1413301463 140082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# This file is not used by the host name and address resolution < 1413301463 140170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# or the DNS query routing mechanisms used by most processes on < 1413301465 371107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# this Mac OS X system. < 1413301466 805522 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how this unicode normalization stuff works though, I should learn more about it, it's useful for stuff other than passwords < 1413301467 951790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1413301470 427650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# This file is automatically generated. < 1413301472 416635 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "ǚ" < 1413301472 976255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1413301475 235211 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\474" < 1413301481 329286 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sharp < 1413301482 786783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does it have the correct DNS servers in it? < 1413301496 667049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1413301506 957338 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "é" == "é" < 1413301507 214169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that might work, if there's a fallback. < 1413301512 564881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1413301521 447006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how you do it on windows < 1413301553 493970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run "ipconfig /all" and parse the output. :p < 1413301559 574606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't do that, that's not the way.) < 1413301598 300785 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever netsh uses to talk to the system, possibly. < 1413301611 629523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some win32-style api, don't know why I was expecting anything different < 1413301624 264737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe since windows has /etc/hosts it'll have /etc/resolv.conf! < 1413301648 285477 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls up http://userguide.icu-project.org/transforms/normalization < 1413301661 683124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :WMI, apparently: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms682125(v=vs.85).aspx < 1413301678 421443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe that's actually for actual DNS servers, now that I look at it more clearly. < 1413301780 224588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a System.Net.NetworkInformation API in .NET for it, at least. < 1413301790 774210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for script-configuring a machine's DNS or something < 1413301878 143103 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't tell much < 1413301998 117146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1413302085 476158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365915(v=vs.85).aspx + the linked list starting from FirstDnsServerAddress member of IP_ADAPTER_ADDRESSES, apparently. (Or the .Net API.) < 1413305116 711939 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-112-75-169.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1413305249 344614 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.70.141 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413305262 782651 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.64.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413305291 907434 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think normalization should not be used in passwords; no translation should be used other than hashing/encryption. < 1413305480 34835 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that security and usability are at odds. < 1413305498 738106 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to say "security always wins" until you have a bug report from someone who can't log in. < 1413305736 938828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean even, the password should even be allowed to contain invalid UTF-8 sequences, leading/trailing spaces, etc. < 1413305824 361072 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it could also be made an option which is stored with the password, so that when a "forget password" function is used or they call technical support, it can be fixed in that way if requested. < 1413306384 838537 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA3F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1413307116 887633 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1413307131 991930 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413307949 782845 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.64.9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413308009 274841 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean even, the password should even be allowed to contain invalid UTF-8 sequences, leading/trailing spaces, etc. < 1413308025 662365 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encoding normalization is probably worth it, considering people might log in from different browsers... < 1413308189 197819 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.78.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413308234 372397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering how many password fields accept arbitrary UTF-8 but don't normalise it < 1413308273 669699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I think it should be an account option, perhaps. < 1413308328 505107 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if the site is aimed at techenical users. < 1413309110 321184 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1413309240 421336 :visy!~visy@ec2-23-23-221-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1413309396 478184 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not. < 1413309428 379058 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you can DoS someone out of his account < 1413309433 789468 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making a failed attempt every 10min < 1413309460 534525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: what isn't? < 1413309476 346947 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(account, IP) < 1413309496 722472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're ferring to NAT, that was already addressed in the logs < 1413309517 768793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, it seems weird to call this kind of scheme impractical when it's already very widely-deployed by any major website that uses passwords < 1413309579 277582 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what logs? < 1413309580 365588 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :when? < 1413309614 89500 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some major website require captchas after failed attempts with the same (account, IP) < 1413309614 842729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-10-14#152523oerjan ? < 1413309619 909539 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which major side completely blocks login? < 1413309622 362195 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*site < 1413309649 812587 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see there anything about NAT < 1413309676 426776 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan just said hmph < 1413309704 451512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I gave a solution that covers NAT...? < 1413309709 284155 :impomatic_!~digital_w@87.113.116.210 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413309721 23498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sorry, I'm just not interested in arguing about passwords with you any more. it's no fun. < 1413309752 129275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: your website is, uh, quite something < 1413309781 488095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, more Finns? < 1413309783 201465 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : it is practical to limit (acount,IP) to one attempt every 10 minutes. < 1413309786 941191 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean that? < 1413309816 727241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: well, I also meant the lines after it. please, I'm tired of this... < 1413309868 268393 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what < 1413309883 885470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, at least apple do the lockout thing, at least post-iCloud compromise) < 1413309893 947575 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I got fed up with the stuck up guys at #lisp and viznut told me about this channel < 1413309897 779925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: well, maybe makkara.org isn't your site. it's in your hostname though < 1413309911 990667 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh, it's my friend's site < 1413309923 369554 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :makkara means sausage in finnish < 1413309947 757075 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is one of his favorites http://sipulitee.makkara.org/ < 1413309972 970719 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :onion tea sausage < 1413310022 754870 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could claim ownership or have at least contributed to that site, but alas, I just have a shell on the same server < 1413310025 393465 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1413310145 522991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: MediaWiki default is to limit to 5 attempts per 5 minutes for a particular (IP, username) pair, for the record. < 1413310219 738160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: it's beautiful < 1413310231 360777 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll relay the compliments < 1413310232 825271 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1413310300 317315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Scheme thing I try on anagolf ends up hitting some sort of version difference between their Gauche and my Gauche, even though the differences are something like 0.0.3 version numbers. :/ < 1413310360 852621 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, admittedly their 0.9.1 is from four years ago.) < 1413310442 14916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of scheme, R7RS-small came out, right? < 1413310454 695661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have been quietly sort-of-announced but then forgotten about (and with no webpages updated about it) < 1413310546 328567 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.78.154 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1413310547 237401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think only Scheme implementors have really cared. < 1413310582 917025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even http://www.scheme-reports.org/ or http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/R7RSHomePage has it < 1413310594 518866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki has it, but did the formal announcement even happen? < 1413310603 280110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I'm wrong < 1413310606 550604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those but the first have it < 1413310649 278653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scheme-reports.org site seems to indeed have died. < 1413310681 812761 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's anagolf? < 1413310682 116168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear I read something about how some kind of internal politics or something prevented a proper announcement of it. < 1413310690 703407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: http://golf.shinh.org/ < 1413310692 595885 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only find IRC logs and spanish(?) golf clubs through google < 1413310696 754160 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks! < 1413310703 398697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the most googleable term. < 1413310727 91634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4844 at least. < 1413310742 988185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we might be the only people who call it anagolf. the channel is anagol after all < 1413310774 93721 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame the rest of the channel for getting me used to that term. < 1413310824 473201 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anagol is the golfed version of anagolf < 1413310976 976337 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, does anyone here use the term “pacman-complete”? < 1413311009 482326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: my first thought was something that provided bash/zsh completion for the pacman package manager :/ < 1413311015 15305 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :same. < 1413311076 507000 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s supposed to be a term describing programming languages sufficiently powerful to write a pacman game in. < 1413311140 956071 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That sounds like a reasonable compromise < 1413311166 143728 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: are languages such as brainfuck excluded from the definition? < 1413311175 615578 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you have no malicious "Hehe, I can lock out your account all day long" user in your network. < 1413311189 21904 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is it on the grounds of not having a graphical output? < 1413311199 871922 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as long as both are in that network) < 1413311203 440759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand why fizzie's compromise is reasonable but my identical compromise wasn't. :/ < 1413311210 860484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: oh, my next thought was a language that's at least as computationally hard as pacman < 1413311215 694503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :along the lines of minesweeper being NP-complete < 1413311222 520429 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't say it's unreasonable < 1413311235 700593 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just vulnerable to lock-out attacks on other user's accounts. < 1413311264 327052 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in public schools network. < 1413311284 514947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is vulnerable if you have some malware on your system inputting fake passwords for your account all the time < 1413311291 597599 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know the account name of someone you'd like to lock out just make some failed login attempts every now and then and the victim can't use the site for that period. < 1413311335 263427 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: It’s not particularly rigorous, but roughly yes. Basically, it’s supposed to call attention to turing-completeness being not as much of a deal as is sometimes made of it in the context of programming languages. < 1413311360 542883 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: interesting < 1413311364 581776 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Some companies have proxies for their employees < 1413311367 231175 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that. < 1413311369 768682 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a challenge! ;) < 1413311401 69358 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just lock every co-worker out if you wan't to if you block (account, IP) < 1413311405 992895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you can also get anyone on your network blocked from editing wikipedia by vandalising a lot! < 1413311411 810410 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know. < 1413311414 602454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can wikipedia stand to use such a vulnerable system < 1413311422 153834 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I'd prefer other systems. < 1413311433 953718 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's obviously not such a huge deal. < 1413311459 822710 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at worst you can make a co-worker not accessing his gmail account while at work < 1413311460 922148 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: have you seen the brainfuck demo? < 1413311471 556009 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me just find it on pouet < 1413311482 909400 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=51989 < 1413311485 813211 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks if you're said co-worker and you want to access your e-mail. but otherwise? < 1413311525 241359 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc the only change to the interpreter code was a special byte to mark the "end" of a screen < 1413311542 821839 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was a last-minute edit at the party it was released at < 1413311550 594010 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure if it's really necessary < 1413311642 303331 :brandonson!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413311694 13093 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: Right. I’m aware you can get almost any such thing done if you’re determined. The actual reason for the term may be people saying total programming languages are unuseful because they’re not turing complete. < 1413311730 893168 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1413311860 940227 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am from the idris community and run idris-bot here, and it is said to be a big deal that there is a space invaders written in a dependently typed language (totality checking is however optional for things that don’t show up in types).) < 1413311901 833318 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: idris is total? < 1413311919 83972 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Optionally outside of types. < 1413311945 504819 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: gotcha < 1413311952 227051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413312036 251689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman is not known to be in the same complexity class as space invaders! < 1413312040 936669 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can mark things as total, covering, or partial, and the totality checker will complain at you if you try to compile something that is marked total but it couldn’t tell that it was. < 1413312069 718279 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: how would you ensure that it recognizes it as total? < 1413312070 472912 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, merely theorized. < 1413312102 142246 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Use structural recursion. < 1413312116 809987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy five Australian Mailman mailing list reminders day! < 1413312134 818856 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's that time again? < 1413312162 667072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be, Australian reminders day is the last of each month < 1413312169 738658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently a mail relay on yoyo got stuck, or something < 1413312175 356250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I got five reminders all at once < 1413312256 574927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's because it's a leap year < 1413312262 601565 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a completely unrelated Subject my first finnish book arrived. < 1413312284 89862 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the one I hoped would arrive first < 1413312327 905988 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what book is it? < 1413312353 250776 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the grammar reference < 1413312362 802284 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a german book) < 1413312397 858129 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suomen peruskielioppi < 1413312410 523379 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the german translation of that book < 1413312423 303881 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1413312580 163809 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nortti < 1413312588 147913 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't realise you were here too! < 1413312606 447176 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not < 1413312610 127948 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1413312704 633077 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this vocal harmony thing < 1413312707 410653 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1413312709 674761 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird :) < 1413312744 369927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: idlers count < 1413312794 19007 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1413313026 904986 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol "it's because it's a leap year" < 1413313479 168422 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-112-75-169.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1413313875 835254 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1413313954 403274 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.86.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413313959 165211 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Fugue14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40616&oldid=40615 5* 03Ais523 5* (+594) 10how I made the Hello World < 1413314062 944089 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413314112 770383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a sadly believable reason. < 1413314136 11275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 2014 isn't a leap year ;-) < 1413314207 796678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a recent daily-wtf entry that would have said it is, IIRC. < 1413314251 641018 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.86.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1413314260 535996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lastDigit(currentDate->year()) == 0 || lastDigit(currentDate->year()) == 4 || lastDigit(currentDate->year()) == 8" < 1413314298 856905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good one, it worked from 1999 to 2011. < 1413314407 250067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, beautiful < 1413314412 537648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it didn't < 1413314416 296306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it thinks 2010 is a leap year, it isn't < 1413314423 299114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it worked from 1999 to 2009 < 1413314430 985211 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1413314445 406564 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Well, that's still a full decade. < 1413314511 792516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get it working 1997 to 2011 by comparing the year to 2000, 2004, and 2008 < 1413314577 531146 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though according to the article, it did in fact apparently crash on March 1, 2014, since what it *does* on "Feb 29" of its "leap year" is while (currentDate->dayOfYear() == 60) { currentDate = new Date(); } -- assuming it is a true story. < 1413314601 194709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it was just put in place later than 2010, and hence never actually worked. < 1413314655 69453 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it hung back then, but was just restarted and never investigated when it came up ok. < 1413314732 766804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wait, it used 100% CPU for an entire day on leap years? < 1413314739 880420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it was meant to? < 1413314747 818627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to skip the day?? < 1413314809 477214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article claims it caused the server to run out of memory; it's C++, no GC for the new Date();, apparently. < 1413314828 987760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I assumed javascript or java or something and mentally blocked out the ->s < 1413314849 355895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's inside a while (!done) { try { ... } catch (...) {} } loop so that it won't give up when the allocation fails, either. < 1413314865 747498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, where the second ellipsis is a literal one. < 1413315023 856462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it fail on linux? I guess it'll probably just get killed < 1413315090 973384 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Why didn't you tell me about this really obvious one-byte saving in the a000217 .b98? < 1413315091 482294 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you part of the capitalist model that if you say you were. good for him :) how do you like? that is there any effective example of code that had code in common, presumably you could transform application there. < 1413315111 536168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like it'd get killed by the OOM killer. But maybe there's an automatic restart. < 1413315360 121781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's likely non-optimal overall (I didn't stare at this long), but I liked the fingerprint loading in http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?A006520/fizzie_1413056620 < 1413316384 958781 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1413316753 335137 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.69.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413316776 673133 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1413316776 972823 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot < 1413316777 223973 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not only writes but uses fnord phrases like " memory register" :) < 1413317043 782482 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1413317087 806410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the most fnord phrase there is. < 1413317090 860258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1413317091 13549 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1413317104 177241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Tell me something about the SID registers? < 1413317104 378934 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: pound 28 8 56 t 84 29 9 57 u 85 30: 58 v 86 31 59 w 87 < 1413317114 875642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you sure that's entirely relevant? < 1413317115 37974 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sprite-display data collision: this is equivalent to the gate bit, or 504 dots in the msb register ( 53272, d018) being changed. the < 1413317142 746529 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the fact that you spelled out the integer equivalent, too :D < 1413317159 820743 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c64 style seems bad at punctuation and making working sentences < 1413317172 314420 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1413317192 297181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was based on some OCR'd scan of some old C64 book, and I don't think I did very much work on unwrapping the lines back to entire sentences. < 1413317198 930007 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses integer values for registers in NES documentation < 1413317199 134545 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus there were quite a lot of originally-tabular data. < 1413317211 276367 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, there's a lot less registers... I think? < 1413317224 771727 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the registers are all aligned to start on hexadecimal even numbers < 1413317245 308660 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for DMC and some other register, I forget which one that was < 1413317250 471200 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How about a BASIC program listing too? < 1413317250 624522 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the following sequence: pha, 233, 247, 255 plot, 273, 290 plp, 233, 247, 255 < 1413317315 872067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I think you're a bit confused. < 1413317316 25447 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the harmonic 3 squared is 9 ( 3 off in the < 1413317332 81814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't argue with 3 squared being 9, though. < 1413317392 208008 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1413317399 366697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1413317399 520136 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1413317431 22262 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those? < 1413317449 953180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different training datasets for the babbling. < 1413317453 874236 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1413317455 244014 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack < 1413317455 397293 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) < 1413317467 586119 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what do I do with a cockatrice corpse? < 1413317467 795607 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: they say that wiping its face again. he is generally more picturesque than useful. picturesque meant he decided after careful observation of the swan, by carl sandburg) < 1413317481 433174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't wipe the face of the cockatrice corpse, just as a hint. < 1413317481 636302 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1413317503 322071 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.69.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the irc option, is that based on #esoteric's logs? < 1413317507 144924 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: quantum mechanics < 1413317507 298246 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: they say that the unicorn horn rule is if it was the owl, and all that remained of the english language) < 1413317509 542212 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1413317518 399932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: #esoteric and #scheme and a little bit of #douglasadams from IRCnet. < 1413317526 838299 :realzies!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat JOIN :#esoteric < 1413317529 117823 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think your bot would make a very good lisp programmer... < 1413317554 457904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvalidCo: The Perl prototype babbler balances parentheses properly, it's just this Befunge version that doesn't (yet) implement it. < 1413317563 702516 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1413317566 494265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("yet" meaning it's been on the TODO list for five years or so.) < 1413317662 72335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be just a stack and a map of open/close token numbers, but Befunge's much easier to write than edit. < 1413317697 14420 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rewrite fungot then, how hard can it be < 1413317697 578251 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wakizashi: the irish celts. one hob mentioned by henderson, was the fact that some shopkeepers consider gems to be quite enchanting. the food, not me.' then the large group of piranhas will attack. < 1413317721 723210 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe a little < 1413317749 843290 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing it in the first place was perhaps more tedious than hard per se. < 1413317752 523071 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how big is the source code? < 1413317764 856167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1413317765 9446 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 < 1413317767 455880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There it is. < 1413317807 85074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also some random documentation there, and supporting material, like for training those babbling styles. < 1413317867 204156 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, this thing seriously implements IRC? < 1413317880 245326 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :very cool < 1413317885 752114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be cheating not to. :) < 1413317906 218034 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit, that is correct < 1413317908 143396 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1413317919 337829 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this also have a brainfuck interpreter in it? < 1413317927 737985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and an Underload interpreter. < 1413317935 699048 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!hello < 1413317935 852414 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1413317937 33376 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not only that, but a brainfuck bytecode compiler? ::D < 1413317943 175805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (hello)S < 1413317943 329534 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1413317978 336818 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not much of a compiler, it doesn't even translate +++++--- to +2. (It does +5-3 instead.) < 1413317988 900274 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice < 1413317997 782557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust has forever broken my mental BF optimizer :-( < 1413318046 368213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how many other esolang-bots we've had that actually speak IRC, though at least a couple. Most of them do the actual networking with something like netcat, but that's probably allowable, given that most languages aren't so well-endowed when it comes to features. < 1413318086 371945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was thutubot written in Thue, or am I mixing up? < 1413318285 94430 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Funge-98 have "Functions/Procedures"? < 1413318285 781832 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413318289 34960 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that you can call) < 1413318308 585968 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have this idea hanging around of having several layers of 2D code < 1413318313 671120 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can call code in other layers < 1413318327 644359 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to allow to create reusable "procedures" < 1413318465 359395 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.69.20 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413318469 681829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a SUBR fingerprint. < 1413318495 964175 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That provides number-indexed functions with a separate call/return stack, IIRC. < 1413318509 430490 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly it was in the shared stack. < 1413318551 171836 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's in the main stack. Well, anyway. < 1413318591 232895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not the first person to think about "structured befunge", but it possibly becomes too practical easily. < 1413318671 393208 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot does a couple of "functions" by having code blocks near the bottom of the program that return along a "spine" at the right edge that dispatches based on a "return address" value the "caller" pushed before the "arguments". < 1413318671 546479 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a glowing potion does not waver. he wore a dark-brown velvet jacket with a flash and drilled the metal as if his soul went to see genuine morporkian life the slave market, the yumi is made of a pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his lance on his hand, and the latter with just a dead cockatrice is just a touch. < 1413318724 883908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way both the ^def and ^bf commands (and the calling of a ^def'd thing) can reuse the same bf machinery, for example. < 1413318894 623887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of similar to what you sometimes see when people do "functions" in sed, by just putting some "return address" indicator (e.g. in the hold space), and having the functions "return" by a "b dispatcher" where dispatcher is a giant block of conditional jumps to every label that could be a return address. < 1413318949 730074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the good old "line numbers in C with a giant switch" thing. < 1413318970 380478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BackFlip was based on someone else's proposal for a function call syntax for Befunge < 1413318987 407725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I could use a simpler syntax as I didn't have to worry about clashes with existing Befunge syntax < 1413319358 904505 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1413321105 773561 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.91.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413321211 983813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SUBR fingerprint just has C (x1 ... xn Va n -- Va Vd x1 ... xn) which pops n, a target vector, and n cells; then pushes the return vector, current delta and those n cells, sets IP position to the popped value and delta to (1, 0, 0, ...). < 1413321251 240781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a corresponding R (Va Vd x1 ... xn n -- x1 ... xn) that can be used to return, with n cells of return values. < 1413321323 5469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus a non-stack-affecting general jump J (possibly for convenience or tail calls?) and a concept of absolute/relative mode which determines whether the J/C addresses are absolute or relative. < 1413321752 501469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: There's also the FOBJ fingerprint, which I don't know if anyone has ever used. It's "object-oriented"; the "classes" are trefunge files, where each Z layer is a "method"; the I command pops a string, constructs an object from the corresponding file, and pushes a reference to it; the M command pops a method index (integer), an object reference and some arguments, and then runs that code; return is by that code doing @. < 1413321799 451462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the object state is of course the fungespace; if you I the same file again, the returned object reference refers to a new clean fungespace. < 1413321861 157536 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not entering this IOCCC < 1413321890 319508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how widely supported that is, since neither CCBI nor cfunge support FOBJ. It's one of the (many) Rc/Funge-defined ones. < 1413321959 621468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I've decided to wait until next year < 1413321965 101557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to get this program working really well < 1413321979 653253 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a limit about when you're allowed to write the program? < 1413322042 705112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, if you never publish it. < 1413322125 481626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are STRONGLY encouraged to submit a previously unpublished and original entry." But nothing about when it was written. < 1413322145 634309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you run the risk of them substantially changing the rules. < 1413322150 872309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe not a big risk.) < 1413322289 464549 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a program length limit? < 1413322318 59053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and it's reasonably small. < 1413322338 90903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The size of your program source must be <= 4096 bytes in length. When your program source is fed as input to the current IOCCC size tool, and the IOCCC size tool -i command line option is used, the value printed should be <= 2053." < 1413322383 521558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IOCCC size tool is full of exploits, and I have the strong impression that most of them are intentional < 1413322427 79277 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: certainly < 1413322448 366887 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they admit in their guidelines that their rules in general are full of holes < 1413322451 728100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the 4KiB limit is probably the more meaningful one < 1413322466 502455 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are meaningful I think < 1413322471 830797 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with the exploits < 1413322534 555857 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.de.ioccc.org/2014/guidelines.txt says "We do realize that there are holes in the rules, and invite entries to attempt to exploit them. ... and then plug the hole next year. Even so, we will attempt to use the smallest plug needed, if not smaller." < 1413322712 779126 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4KB/2053B is pretty generous; i used only 952/650B for my entry < 1413322730 378043 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp, I have an over-ambitious idea < 1413322749 895925 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1413322757 621007 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secret :) < 1413322829 656749 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't enter this year either < 1413322841 63224 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, being shorter is an advantage for an entry < 1413322848 732544 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have some ideas for next year though < 1413322864 374756 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they say this in the guidelines too) < 1413322878 39631 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1413322879 521177 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 6 < 1413322882 389314 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that reference! < 1413322890 89139 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413322891 389180 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1413323279 825321 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1413323299 397163 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.91.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1413323384 157611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what kind of holes? oh, right, you won't tell us < 1413323415 990630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one I'm hoping isn't exploited so that I can use it next year < 1413323427 343981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the traditional one is to encode data as long strings full of whitespace, braces, and semicolons < 1413323430 501186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they patched that one yet < 1413323456 542924 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think my idea is too ambitious to get round most sensible file size limits < 1413323509 990536 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.90.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413323545 170349 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write it in 1400B of BLC, Taneb:-? < 1413323636 975227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: antilunch < 1413323717 394935 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp, I don't know < 1413323721 198613 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually tied < 1413323723 141967 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tried < 1413323730 497696 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just feels so ambitious... < 1413323789 81401 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :save it for 2020 then... < 1413324001 30215 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could try and write it, then see how long it is... < 1413324024 130335 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice to see a fully featured cryptocurrency in ioccc < 1413324234 525492 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sleeeeeep < 1413324274 852208 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA3F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413324397 326068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1413324816 374235 :impomatic_!~digital_w@87.113.116.210 PART :#esoteric < 1413325236 960628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever exploited whatever they run the ioccc entries on with an entry < 1413325251 798786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem old-fashioned enough to maybe not use a VM < 1413325295 111344 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's hard to tell whether anyone had done that, because they're completely secretive < 1413325315 982231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: surely it'd win :) < 1413325322 202191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as long as it wasn't /malicious/) < 1413325338 20610 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surely < 1413325349 998297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose a program that makes itself win would be hard < 1413325356 953375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there's probably no super formal process < 1413325370 754666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe an entry that emails the rest of the judges saying hey this one is great :p < 1413325394 182424 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they meeting in person for the judging? < 1413325402 206729 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were some photos about food they're eating on twitter < 1413325412 327739 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might use emails as well, but it gets tricky < 1413325481 232506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :entry that orders them pizza < 1413325505 636818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get location + transfer bitcoins < 1413325573 595436 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to try Hackintosh in a VM :/ < 1413325645 266484 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gitlab.brokenpipe.de/stettberger/avremu/tree/master#README < 1413325657 317244 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: i've run older versions in vmware. < 1413325657 470559 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1413325678 368561 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :had some trouble getting modern version to work, but i hear it works in oracle's VM < 1413325768 23986 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... not legal though, I think. Although I really don't want to pay hundreds/thousands of dollars just to try out an interesting OS < 1413325990 929594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413326095 944535 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413326213 775441 :S1!~sheldon@pD9FCA3F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1413326360 314006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : A long time ago I managed to sneak a patch into the stdlib that overloaded + on Options, specifically to make the following FizzBuzz implementation possible [...] < 1413326421 469899 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, when profiling, I found 97% of the ticks were in libc... I have no idea how to diagnose that :/ < 1413326451 288529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: get a debug-symbols version of libc < 1413326465 499323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most systems don't provide them by default, but do provide a way to get hold of them < 1413326495 78278 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the V8 profiler recognize that? Also, I don't have root on the system I want to profile on < 1413326501 41052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, tbh, the problem is likely that you're calling into libc repeatedly in a tight loop < 1413326526 852763 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if the profiler indicated what function was doing that, that would be helpful. Either I'm misreading it or it's not doing that < 1413326554 864272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you want a profiler that tracks the call graph, although you probably already have one < 1413326565 165231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm, "V8"? isn't that a JS library? < 1413326571 866377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, interp? < 1413326572 135887 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a JS engine < 1413326574 64835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1413326574 308687 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413326593 50633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreted languages are a huge pain to profile, except by tools specifically targeted at one language and one implementation of it < 1413326594 572823 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a Node.js program, specifically, a Grunt script < 1413326608 363422 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node has a --prof option < 1413326615 755818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because an interpreter's codepaths look much the same regardless of what it's interpreting < 1413326632 399050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a point you just have to go improve the profiler < 1413326726 219110 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413326742 671316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : so I got five reminders all at once <-- me too, i mentioned it on ##nomic but no one else seemed awake < 1413326769 520933 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone olist yet? < 1413326772 560351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about backup being down < 1413326773 984611 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist (964) < 1413326774 524314 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist (964): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti < 1413326784 271651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that you don't notice, because you only use backup when the main lists are down < 1413327075 528746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm someone should make a profiler that interpreters can hook into < 1413327096 289194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, interesting < 1413327100 231209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe they did) < 1413327102 675107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like the sort of thing the valgrind people would do < 1413327108 726720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Thanks! I'll look at it when I'm at a non-phone computer. < 1413327235 263453 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thanks for perpetuating the tradition! < 1413327380 242503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is including debug symbols for libc really that rare? < 1413327398 384780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo this had better be a three-page update < 1413327417 452946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: every OS that I know the situation on (which is Ubuntu and Windows) has a separate libc symbols download rather than bundling them < 1413327423 948976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the libc situation on Windows is awful < 1413327430 500455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows is a bad point of comparison :) < 1413327446 410797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft's position is that the libc they ship is for internal kernel use only; they provide separate libcs for application use, that you're meant to ship with your application < 1413327455 43536 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1413327478 502852 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it me, or is that begging for footholes? < 1413327483 188109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the license prevents those libcs being shipped for the purpose of linking other programs against them, (i.e. you can only ship them for the purpose of linking the program you ship to them) < 1413327504 455921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there isn't enough public information about the Windows kernel interface to write your own libc for Windows < 1413327519 101551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it's rather bad to use the included one < 1413327526 359153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, its interface changes < 1413327530 693448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps unsurprisingly, mingw links against the kernel one, because it has nothing else it can link to < 1413327554 490754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's more a case of its interface is supposed to change, but mingw has successfully managed to lock its interface by virtue of weight of pre-existing software < 1413327554 837125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fine for mingw to script downloading the libc, right? < 1413327578 765907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think that might work, but there are EULAs to accept < 1413327590 21720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people would be used to that on Windows though < 1413327606 516389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are making the ReactOS maybe can figure out Windows kernel better enough to write ReactOS, they can also make the libc file too. < 1413327616 268241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2014/04/11/10516280.aspx mm < 1413327623 433860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: corefonts are meant to include an EULA < 1413327628 564106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and linux distributions package them anyway < 1413327635 66042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think debian makes you hit enter in debconf or something to agree to it < 1413327649 422750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they have an accept/reject EULA on install, indeed < 1413327660 45936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprisingly if you know me, I rejected the EULA and uninstalled < 1413327685 127925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you try installing it in the first place? < 1413327693 406315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, since when do you not use proprietary software? < 1413327719 543526 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413327727 885595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't reject it for the reason of not using proprietary software < 1413327741 627494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rejected it to reduce the chance of people forcing unwanted fonts on me on web pages and the like < 1413327757 140492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it was a dependency of something, maybe just a recommends < 1413327768 13590 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1413327768 169476 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1413328576 402800 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to compress the Zork I Z-machine story file with gzip but it resulted in 62355 bytes file (the uncompressed file is 86838 bytes long). < 1413328662 142872 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.69.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413328708 986602 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.90.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413328798 118113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However one thing in DEFLATE is that it expects 8-bit data; if the file contains 5-bit data then it might not work quite as well? < 1413328847 701876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you could try padding out each byte to 8 bits and then using an octet-based compression algorithm < 1413328875 411248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good ones will huffman code the bytes anyway and so the extra padding won't contribute more than a few bytes extra size across the whole file, if it's deterministic (e.g. all zeroes) < 1413328903 457611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: z-machine is 5-bit? < 1413328915 75980 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to adapt it so that it can work? The problem is that only some of the data in the file uses 5-bits and others are 8-bits or 16-bits, and you cannot always determine ahead of time what is what. < 1413328925 467028 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only partially it is. < 1413329068 158582 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a way to guess where the 5-bit data is but it isn't always reliable, so the compression needs to work even if it guesses wrong. < 1413329275 256186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 5-bit data is used for packed strings; it is packed three 5-bit codes into two bytes, and the high bit is set if there are no more groups of three 5-bit codes remaining. < 1413329623 445516 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[12:31] < Sgeo> It's... not legal though, I think. Although I really don't want to pay hundreds/thousands of dollars just to try out an interesting OS < 1413329629 145730 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :debatable < 1413329633 771533 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its against the EULA < 1413329657 369239 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you bought your own copy of osx, it might be considered legal in many jurisdictions < 1413329912 802752 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1413330052 300435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck buying a copy of OS X without a mac though < 1413330088 626508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there VPS providers who host OS X-based VMs? < 1413330097 670179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are for Windows and Linux < 1413330126 789094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it < 1413330153 553576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be kinda slow unless anyone wrote drivers for paravirtualisation < 1413330165 782903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess it might not be too bad < 1413330175 408851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a mac mini colo company though, that's probably the closest thing < 1413330178 494231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but god knows why you'd want to < 1413330196 20543 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant you download osx from any itunes account? < 1413330235 408832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: I don't know if anyone's reverse-engineered the app store or if it does any fancy checks < 1413330255 734525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, OS X doesn't actually cost money now, and I doubt apple would like to hand out disk images to just anyone < 1413330273 458444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, "disk images". kids these days etc.) < 1413330312 93870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if you have a developer account you can probably get stuff?? pre-releases, at least < 1413330340 657972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly why not just pirate it at that point, you're doing something they don't like and they wouldn't get any money anyway :p < 1413330487 493711 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about versions that were for sale on itunes < 1413330496 945937 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when new versions came out < 1413330513 620617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple sell old versions? huh < 1413330520 287168 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :new versions < 1413330526 335156 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know if they still do... < 1413330531 481411 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent tried this in a efw years at least < 1413330536 402846 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION buy hypercard from apple < 1413330542 564949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OS X upgrades are free and distributed via the app store these days < 1413330544 377749 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ick, I really don't want to torrent < 1413330569 621025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: I guess you can log into your iTunes account on a friend's computer, download the OS X upgrade, and put it on a USB stick < 1413330599 584453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still violating the EULA but it's probably the least illegal method < 1413330603 297832 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a keyboard and mouse and monitor I could just buy a Mac Mini < 1413330616 528405 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do have a mouse < 1413330625 441735 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least somewhat defensible if you were ever in court < 1413330625 808626 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: I was going to complain about your clock being fast, but the tunes logs are even more out of phase. < 1413330630 969790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can afford a mac mini but not a keyboard and mouse and monitor? < 1413330639 649195 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use my current laptop's monitor as keyboard and monitor, can I? < 1413330641 454464 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my clock is fast? < 1413330648 256568 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't have space in this cramped apartment < 1413330649 305794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easily < 1413330670 89590 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\I also don't have space for a second laptop unless I only use one primarily < 1413330680 50374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... very cramped < 1413330680 203801 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: going by the 12:31 timestamp for something that happened before xx:30, yes. < 1413330715 366502 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop, if not on my lap, sits on a small table next to the couch. There's barely enough room for a mouse to move horizontally < 1413330740 573828 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed time < 1413330747 592153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe you can borrow a keyboard and monitor and mouse long enough to set up VNC and then use your laptop < 1413330754 786935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly a pretty or smooth solution < 1413330840 977217 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/laptop/3456298/use-your-laptop-as-second-monitor/ but this is Windows specific :( < 1413330864 101793 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not what I want < 1413330914 833079 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does DEFLATE Huffman trees contain unused symbols? < 1413330928 498878 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I get bored of languages and environments easily. Really a good idea to spend money on something I may get bored of? < 1413330946 825622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you spend your money on anything else? :p < 1413330966 929217 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say food, but food is inherently boring < 1413330971 291945 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Necessary, but boring < 1413331049 512361 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :food is fởn.