00:02:51 <Sgeo> What if Apple offered a tiered App Store. So that, say, there's a Tier 1, which iOS devices are on by default, and Tier 2, which supports things like custom home screens. Apps still need to pass review, and it's the review that decides the tier. The worst thing that hapenns if someone clicks through security is a slightly confusing experience. Maybe encouraging users to click through could be grounds for rejection
00:03:17 <Sgeo> There's no motivation for devs to just get lazy and send to tier 2, beccause they don't get that choice
00:03:49 <int-e> what problem is that supposed to solve?
00:04:14 <Sgeo> The problem where custom home screens etc. require jailbreaking
00:04:30 <Sgeo> + the problem that custom home screens can confuse users
00:04:38 <Sgeo> (without banning them)
00:06:28 <elliott_> why are either of those problems to apple?
00:06:37 <elliott_> they don't care about home screens. they'd rather they didn't exist at all
00:06:57 <elliott_> if you want a different homescreen you can... buy a different phone?
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00:07:53 <pikhq> You're proposing something that's very un-Apple.
00:08:27 <pikhq> This is about as much of an Apple idea as permitting clone Macs.
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00:08:41 <elliott_> I mean, if you don't agree with Apple's philosophies or priorities that's fine, but I'm not sure why you're puzzled that they follow them
00:08:54 <elliott_> and there's certainly a huge market for them as they are
00:10:27 <pikhq> It's important to remember that Apple really isn't trying to market a flexible, customizable device. They really are going with "any color you like as long it's black."
00:11:12 <elliott_> pikhq: tbh, they're loosening on that
00:11:17 <elliott_> you can install keyboards now!!
00:11:38 <elliott_> but I don't expect custom home screens, ever.
00:11:41 <pikhq> Yeah, and they did ship out ROMs for clone Macs back in the day. :)
00:12:08 <elliott_> well, iOS and OS X have both literally just added considerable shared machinery for secure extensions
00:12:29 <Sgeo> They pulled an app for using the Today screen to host app launching icons
00:12:50 <elliott_> I think it's a slight shift in philosophy, but I imagine there's a *practical* reason they didn't want them initially in addition to any philosophical ones: security
00:13:11 <pikhq> elliott_: Oh, certainly.
00:13:23 <elliott_> ...so they didn't bother even thinking about going to all the effort of sandboxing everything effectively until it actually seemed like it was high in demand/a good idea that they could execute well
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00:14:04 <pikhq> Sandboxing is a Hard Problem, and punting on it by making the lack of it irrelevant is a reasonable solution.
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00:14:28 <pikhq> Android seems to more have punted on it by declaring it not a problem. :P
00:16:56 <Sgeo> pikhq: is it just me, or does Android have a horrible scrolling experience. Sometimes I scroll with my finger near the right edge of the screen, and it will sometimes hit the scroll bar, causing the scrolling to go in the opposite direction from what I intended and very fast
00:17:01 <elliott_> yeah, Android is so free-for-all and open to customisation and I think it demonstrates pretty well why there are advantages to Apple's approach :p
00:17:01 <Sgeo> Does iOS do that or is it sane?
00:17:18 <elliott_> I don't think you can grip iOS scrollbars at all.
00:17:34 <elliott_> they're transient like OS X's and I don't think they're anything but visual.
00:17:40 <pikhq> elliott_: It actually makes the strengths and weaknesses of both approaches rather blatant.
00:17:42 <elliott_> well, it's kind of annoying when you want to scroll to the end.
00:17:43 <Sgeo> Is there a chance that Android will fix this soon?
00:18:06 <Sgeo> Or should I stop hoping for Android to get its act together
00:18:15 <elliott_> pikhq: yeah. but I still wouldn't wanted to have use Android at all until pretty recently, and even now...
00:18:32 <pikhq> Honestly, Android actually does get rather dramatically better with each release.
00:18:55 <elliott_> especially /early on/ I think iOS benefitted tremendously from focusing on getting things right without too much outside interference and gradually opening up
00:19:17 <elliott_> and Android played catch-up for a long time because they didn't have those priorities to start with
00:19:24 <pikhq> ... which is quite fortunate. The UI experience when they started made Gnome look intelligently designed.
00:19:54 <Sgeo> My phone from last year has a physical menu button
00:20:15 <pikhq> Android was also pretty hurt by pretty much redoing the basic conception of what it should be like not that long before release.
00:20:53 <pikhq> They pretty much redid giant chunks of the UI after iOS happened.
00:21:16 <pikhq> Cause they were trying to be a Blackberry killer. :)
00:21:56 <elliott_> wasn't gnome at version 2 when android came out?
00:22:04 <elliott_> gnome 2 was really inoffensive :p
00:22:26 <pikhq> KDE 4 had just release, too.
00:22:35 <pikhq> ... Which is a better comparison.
00:22:45 <pikhq> KDE 4 was a freaking clusterfuck.
00:23:36 <int-e> Sgeo: which android version is that, I don't see any scrollbars to interact with...
00:23:44 <elliott_> KDE 4 seems to have completely destroyed KDE's popularity
00:23:47 <elliott_> which is kind of amusing and sad
00:24:06 <elliott_> like people hated gnome 3 too but nobody ever talks about KDE any more except when they're noting that nobody takes about KDE any more
00:25:32 <pikhq> I wonder what in the world things are gonna look like in a few years. Gnome 3 seems to be taking GTK down with it.
00:25:57 <int-e> Sgeo: hmm. same here. there are scrollbar-like location indicators, but I don't remember seeing any scrollbar. (I just tried with a large image in Chrome)
00:26:40 <Sgeo> Try putting your thumb over the scrollbar-like indicator
00:26:56 <elliott_> pikhq: eh, I think gnome 3 is doing okay.
00:27:07 <Sgeo> Also, try Gmail instead of Chrome
00:27:15 <Sgeo> I had a harder time reproducing in Chrome
00:27:18 <elliott_> arguably everything but unity is doing badly because it's hard to compete with ubuntu's numbers, but...
00:27:36 <elliott_> (I also think gnome 3 isn't that bad honestly, but)
00:27:54 <Sgeo> (Pretty sure it's not Gmail specific because reddit is fun also does it, and it's usually where I ahve the most pain)
00:28:12 <pikhq> Isn't Mint bigger than Ubuntu these days? :)
00:28:15 <elliott_> Chrome probably draws its own like on every platform.
00:28:17 <int-e> I can't try gmail, all it does is ask for an account, not realizing that this is pointless when the tablet is offline.
00:28:23 <elliott_> pikhq: I seriously doubt that.
00:28:58 <pikhq> Oh, just #1 on DistroWatch. Which is the least scientific methodology.
00:29:00 <Sgeo> Are iPhone URL schemes akin to Android intents?
00:29:08 <elliott_> yeah, like most ubuntu users are gonna look at distrowatch ever
00:30:09 <Sgeo> int-e: try settings?
00:31:28 <int-e> Sgeo: same there, it indicates position but I can't interact with it.
00:31:49 <Sgeo> I'm not on stock Android, wonder if that's related
00:31:54 * Sgeo glares at Samsung
00:33:32 <elliott_> samsung do a bunch of terrible things to their android yes
00:34:25 <Sgeo> Including fudging with the scroll bars?
00:35:53 <elliott_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TouchWiz
00:36:22 <elliott_> "Tizen (/ˈtaɪzɛn/) is an operating system based on the Linux kernel and the GNU C Library implementing the Linux API." what a weird opening sentence
00:39:43 <pikhq> "glibc" *points, laughs*
00:48:45 <lifthrasiir> I'm in contact with several Samsung people working on Tizen
00:50:17 <pikhq> "I envy the dead"?
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00:59:02 <tswett> Show that for all n ≥ 1, s(n) ≤ H_n + exp(H_n) log(H_n), where s(n) is the sum of divisors function and H_n is the nth harmonic number.
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01:08:58 <tswett> What does exp(H_n) look like, anyway?
01:09:15 <elliott_> lifthrasiir: I'm still anticipating
01:10:10 <Sgeo> What do they say? What do they say?
01:10:21 <Sgeo> About the acropolis
01:10:26 <Sgeo> Where the parthenon is?
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01:12:37 <lifthrasiir> not hard to guess, but something similar to "we are fucked up"
01:19:59 <oerjan> tswett: e*e^(1/2)*...*e^(1/n) hth
01:20:59 <tswett> And, of course, e^(1/n) = 1 + 1/n.
01:21:04 <tswett> For overwhelmingly large values of n.
01:21:26 <tswett> So exp(H_n) probably grows... something like linearly?
01:24:11 <oerjan> 1 + 1/2 + ... + 1/n is less than a constant away from int_0^n 1/x dx, iirc
01:24:46 <Sgeo> "On May 14, 2013, Cydia Substrate for the Android operating system was released.[24]"
01:26:50 * tswett > sequence_ . map print . (\x -> zipWith (-) (tail x) x) . map exp . scanl (+) 0 . map (1/) $ [1..100]
01:27:53 <boily> AAAAAAH! mapMs everywhere!
01:28:13 <oerjan> boily: are you afraid of haskell
01:29:03 <boily> no. shachaf gave me Applicative homework the other day, and I've been obsessing over it since then.
01:29:27 <oerjan> well that would be traverse, not mapM
01:29:43 <shachaf> oerjan: hey you can't give the answer away like that
01:30:01 <tswett> So what's 1.781072418?
01:30:05 <shachaf> Well, you aren't allowed to use traverse. You have to implement it on your own.
01:30:50 <tswett> e to the power of the Euler–Mascheroni constant, that's what it is.
01:31:48 <tswett> I wonder if there exists a constant k such that the statement is still true if you replace log(H_n) with k.
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02:01:13 <FreeFull> Hmm, as an approximation to logarithms?
02:04:20 <oerjan> i'm sure it must have other uses...
02:07:04 <tswett> Needless to say, log(H_n) grows very slowly.
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03:15:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tipforgame * New user account
03:17:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fifa 15]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40657 * Tipforgame * (+5530) All About The Game Fifa 15
03:18:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Fifa 15]]": Spam: content was: "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia FIFA 15 is surely an soccer simulation video game that is generated by EA Canada and published by Electronic Arts. It..." (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Tipforgame|Tipforgame]]")
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03:19:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:Tipforgame]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
03:21:33 <elliott_> oerjan: okay but this spam is kinda great
03:23:34 <oerjan> hm? it's based on wikipedia, clearly.
03:24:16 <oerjan> you mean the synonym replacements
03:28:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BANCStar]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40658&oldid=40654 * Oerjan * (+46) /* Implementation */ There is no such thing as BANCStar
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03:50:41 <Sgeo> Someone's example of why they like jailbreaking: "iFile - File browser and file management"
03:50:54 <Sgeo> Apple disallows file browsers?
03:51:22 <Sgeo> I guess Apple wants people to have a no-need-to-deal-with-files experience. So they block things that break that
03:51:34 <Sgeo> I think Google wants a similar experience, but not so blocky ofc
03:56:08 <Sgeo> Nod32 thinks that www.jailbreakme.com is dangerous content
03:57:09 <Sgeo> Mind you, it is scary that a website was able to jailbreak
03:59:45 <MDude> The clear solution is to make file systems for phones based the captchalog system from Homestuck.
04:00:20 <Sgeo> "Method 2 : Get Cydia Icon on iOS 7 without Jailbreak" What... is the point of that?
04:00:43 <MDude> So you have stuff like phones that only store one file of each of a small number of hash values.
04:00:49 <Sgeo> "You will now see Cydia icon on your iPhone 5 home screen running iOS 7 . It does not jailbreak your device , but tricks someone into believing that you have a jailbroken phone ."
04:01:56 <MDude> Or everyhing in a stack/queue.
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04:09:48 <elliott_> MDude: sometimes I feel like real filesystems are approximately as painful to navigate.
04:12:39 <Sgeo> Feel like OSX and iOS are opposites
04:12:59 <Sgeo> FScript on OSX probably allows for a lot of tampering with apps, if I understand correctly (maybe I don't)
04:18:50 <FreeFull> Sgeo: Android comes with a file browser
04:31:45 <Sgeo> Would Apple allow the equivalent of Android's View Web Source app?
04:32:10 <Sgeo> "To get the source from the page you are currently viewing in the browser, you can now use the share feature from the menu and select View Web Source."
04:32:14 <Sgeo> Since it's not really 'sharing'
04:32:49 <Sgeo> http://www.imore.com/new-view-source-app-ios-8-lets-safari-users-view-source-code-web-sites
04:32:54 <Sgeo> Of course, it costs money
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05:28:17 <fizzie> "I want to acknowledge you that we have finally succeeded in getting your ATM VISA CARD worth’s of $3.5USD out of ECOWAS department --" over three dollars!
05:36:03 <elliott_> fizzie: btw, do those old computers actually boot?
05:38:51 <fizzie> elliott_: Yes. Though I might have to do something to them to remove any PERSONAL DATA.
05:39:09 <fizzie> elliott_: You can boot both over a LAN, if I remember correctly.
05:39:37 <elliott_> an actual network, just like sun always dreamed of
05:39:52 <fizzie> elliott_: The Sparc is a bit picky about it, you need a BOOTP server (it doesn't do DHCP) and the TFTP server for the kernel needs to be the same machine.
05:40:11 <elliott_> honestly I've never even done netbooting at all.
05:40:21 <fizzie> And the kernel it fetches over the net needs to have a particular name related to the hardware model.
05:40:32 <fizzie> There's OpenBSD $SOME_ANCIENT_VERSION installed on it at the moment.
05:40:55 <fizzie> The SGI box has an IRIX six point something of dubious legality on it, and I have no install media.
05:41:21 <fizzie> I have a vague recollection that you can run Linux on it, but it might have had a less than perfectly supported variant of the graphics framebuffer.
05:42:34 <fizzie> On the other hand, if you keep the IRIX it's just like in Jurassic Park.
05:43:23 <fizzie> There's also an external Sun SCSI box of maybe four two-gigabytes-or-so disks that I had hooked up to the Indy.
05:44:19 <elliott_> these machines are the kind of thing we need snapshot backups of actual physical objects fo
05:44:44 <fizzie> I think I had a SGI monitor for the Indy.
05:44:54 <fizzie> Though I'm not 100% sure on that.
05:46:04 <elliott_> have to use a CRT of appropriate vintage or it's cheating
05:46:40 <fizzie> I also have the feeling that both use the Sun "13W3" display interface, and I have somewhere a 13W3 -> 4xBNC cable that you can hook up to any CRT display that (a) has the "component"-style BNC inputs and (b) accepts a combined H/V sync instead of the VGA-style separate one.
05:47:31 <elliott_> getting these working is gonna cost me
05:47:40 <fizzie> The SGI box might've done sync-on-green instead. At least my old Samsung SyncMaster CRT happily supported both, and it was just a regular PC monitor, so it's not fancy.
05:47:47 <fizzie> You can run both over the serial console, but it's not as fancy.
05:47:50 <elliott_> I don't even own a single CRT.
05:48:07 <fizzie> I don't own one any more either. Except for that SGI monitor that I think I still have.
05:48:35 <fizzie> The Indy has a "webcam" attached to it, and does video input, since it was billed as a kind of a "multimedia" machine.
05:49:41 <fizzie> Oh, and it also accepts regular PS/2 keyboards and mice, if I'm not mistaken. The SparcStation doesn't, but I have a Sun Type X (where X is something from 3 to 5, probably 5) keyboard and mouse for it.
05:49:51 <fizzie> There's a labeled, physical compose key and all.
05:50:54 <fizzie> http://www.gibi.de/gibi/StuffForSale/Sun_Type5c_US+Unix-Keyboard_320-1234.JPG <- like this but not so pink.
05:51:15 <elliott_> aww. you should have gotten the pink keyboard.
05:51:33 <fizzie> It might be slightly yellow from age.
05:51:36 <elliott_> I like the mystery key to the left of F1
05:51:59 <elliott_> I also like how it looks ancient but has media keys
05:54:47 <fizzie> I don't remember what the mystery key is for.
05:55:09 <fizzie> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19683-01/806-4743/images/keyboard_a.tif.gif it's empty also in the official layout diagram
05:55:30 <elliott_> at least I know where the power key is
05:55:46 <fizzie> Separate "cut", "copy" and "paste" keys too.
05:55:54 <fizzie> And a big "help" one if you're feeling scared.
05:56:53 <elliott_> http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=332
06:02:56 <fizzie> I grepped the logs for some specs. The Indy is model IP22 -- http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/IP22 -- and has the 150 MHz (!) MIPS R5000 CPU on it, along with 48 megs of RAM and GR3-XZ graphics (hardware-accelerated 3D!).
06:03:50 <elliott_> http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/File:SGI_Indy.jpg this is such a "early 2000s unix user" screenshot... photo
06:04:13 <elliott_> well I guess xdm can't do transparent
06:04:20 <fizzie> "This is my own Indy and the photo was taken by me, Sebastian Wenzler, Germany, 2004-12-05."
06:06:17 <elliott_> "Support of more than 384MB memory requires a 64-bit Linux kernel." um?
06:08:19 <fizzie> I think the R5000 has 64-bit registers, yes.
06:08:29 <fizzie> I'm not entirely sure about that, though.
06:08:49 <fizzie> MIPS III variants certainly exist in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions.
06:09:14 <fizzie> "The R4000 series, released in 1991, extended the MIPS instruction set to a full 64-bit architecture, moved the FPU onto the main die to create a single-chip microprocessor, and operated at a radically high internal clock speed (it was introduced at 100 MHz). --"
06:09:41 <fizzie> "The R5000 FPU had more flexible single precision floating-point scheduling than the R4000, and as a result, R5000-based SGI Indys had much better graphics performance than similarly clocked R4400 Indys with the same graphics hardware."
06:09:53 <elliott_> that's kind of less than anywhere near 32 bits of address space.
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06:10:19 <fizzie> I don't know, but I'm sure there's a very good reason. Maybe it needs a linearly mapped copy of the physical memory for reason X, and... who knows.
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06:12:43 <fizzie> And the Sparc box is a SparcStation 5 -- http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_ss5/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARCstation_5 -- that at least originally had the 85 MHz µSPARC-II on it, but it's possible I got a 110 MHz variant motherboard from someone. And 32 megs of RAM.
06:13:01 <fizzie> It eats same sort of SIMMs you could stick in a PC, IIRC.
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06:13:27 <elliott_> upgrading retro hardware has always seemed like rather missing the point to me
06:14:20 <elliott_> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Sparcstack.jpg nice
06:14:25 <elliott_> good way to adjust your monitor height
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06:15:34 <fizzie> I don't have the slim CD-rom drive you can see in those pictures.
06:15:40 <fizzie> It might have the floppy drive, though.
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06:30:12 <elliott_> scounder: ...what do you have against couches, anyway?
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07:34:40 <elliott_> why is tar more common than cpio again?
07:40:14 <elliott_> okay, I guess the format is just better.
07:40:23 <elliott_> I guess that's why pax exists.
07:45:42 <elliott_> also "curl -L http://foo/bar.zip | bsdcpio -i" is cool
07:47:17 <elliott_> though weirdly, | bsdtar -xf - sets the permissions differently
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10:58:10 <Taneb> Help I think I want to use call/cc
10:59:37 <b_jonas> Taneb: on #esoteric, that's normal
10:59:59 <Taneb> I think I don't need it
11:00:12 <b_jonas> Taneb: in code with or without mutable data structures or mutable bindings?
11:00:59 <b_jonas> but not in unlambda, right? in unlambda, it's completely normal to use call/cc because the input primitives return crazy values
11:01:20 <boily> think of call/cc being like a dangerous poisonous deadly dynamic goto.
11:01:56 <b_jonas> Taneb: consider using call/ec instead if you can
11:02:08 <b_jonas> or maybe scheme r7rs exceptions
11:04:34 <fizzie> Whenever a ketchup company advertises that there are 2 kg of tomatoes in 1 kg of their ketchup, I can't help but think of the horrible implied energy releases.
11:04:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: what? it's water release, not energy release
11:05:00 <Taneb> elliott_, what does oleg say about call/cc?
11:05:20 <elliott_> that it needs to die, roughly :)
11:05:46 <elliott_> http://okmij.org/ftp/continuations/against-callcc.html
11:06:02 <b_jonas> of course! but this is #esoteric, where we embrace bad ideas
11:06:23 <Taneb> elliott_, makes sense
11:07:06 <boily> water is energy! coffee is made from water, and coffee has energy!
11:12:10 <fizzie> Taneb: Delimited continuations! (I know nothing about them, execpt that they're supposedly fancy, and shift/reset is involved.)
11:13:24 <fizzie> I guess elliott_'s link mentions the same thing.
11:14:24 <elliott_> fizzie: they're just continuations except instead of "rest of program" it's "up to the specified enclosing shift".
11:14:30 <elliott_> or reset. I forget which combinator is which.
11:15:39 <fizzie> That sounds suspiciously simple.
11:16:27 <elliott_> fizzie: for instance haskell's Cont is delimited continuations.
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11:17:54 <Taneb> I think I am not very good at Racket
11:18:13 <Taneb> I'm overcomplicating it for my level of skill by trying to do clever stuff I'm used to in Haskell
11:18:29 <Taneb> But because Haskell and Racket are such different languages I am confusing myself
11:18:59 <fizzie> So you're trying to write in Raskell (or possibly Hacket).
11:20:04 <Taneb> Yeah, except I'm not even using the extensions of Racket that would make this so much easier
11:41:53 <b_jonas> Taneb: right. that's like when I compiled to prolog such that the resulting program used nothing of the logic programming capabilities of prolog.
11:42:28 <b_jonas> but I had an excuse for that.
11:43:24 <mroman> fizzie: I meant to say 10min on foot, 11min with the tram, 5min on foot, 30min with the train, 10min on foot
11:43:38 <mroman> (internet here closes at about 23 o'clock)
11:44:52 <b_jonas> mroman: right. if only we could just travel once, then save a continuation or coroutine at home and one at the office and just context switch between them for free
11:46:23 <b_jonas> the time/memory tradeoff would be totally worth
11:48:32 <fizzie> The Internet is closed at night?
11:48:46 <fizzie> But that makes more sense, yes.
11:49:08 <mroman> fizzie: in the clinic yes.
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12:19:20 <fizzie> "Sounds like they'd be better of keeping it closed all the time." </badjoke>
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12:25:24 <mroman> are you annoyed by my presence?
12:26:36 <fizzie> <span xmlns:em="http://www.w3.org/2009/10/emotionml"><em:emotion category-set="http://www.w3.org/TR/emotion-voc/xml#everyday-categories" dimension-set="http://www.w3.org/TR/emotion-voc/xml#fsre-dimensions" appraisal-set="http://www.w3.org/TR/emotion-voc/xml#scherer-appraisals"><em:category name="disappointed" value="0.8" /><em:dimension name="potency" value="0.2" /><em:appraisal ...
12:26:42 <fizzie> ... name="agent-self" value="1.0" /></em:emotion> See, the Internet is bad for your mental health and... never mind.</span>
12:28:05 <fizzie> (If you don't read EmotionML, that's "mild disappointment caused by own action".)
12:31:58 <elliott_> IME the internet is the only thing that keeps your mental health going :p
12:33:35 <fizzie> I guess that might depend on which part of it you read/watch/listen/experience/consume/subsume.
12:35:31 <elliott_> trust me, it's difficult to find parts of the internet worse than being isolated from everything that interests you and everyone you care about in a mental health facility.
12:37:13 <b_jonas> I hope there are at least books too
12:39:51 <elliott_> well, not no: actually yes, it did close shortly afterwards
12:40:50 <fizzie> But what about the books? (I'm imagining the sort of book collection you sometimes see in a hotel lobby bookshelf, built by stuff left by tenants.)
12:43:04 <elliott_> it was an not exciting selection. but bringing in your own was ok. (bringing in anything that can access the internet was not: I had to smuggle my phone in.)
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12:45:00 <b_jonas> elliott_: can't you just pre-order and borrow books from a library every three weeks, like some old people here do because they have difficulty getting the books from the library in person?
12:46:01 <fizzie> I think my (wheelchair-bound) grandmother's food-and-other-home-assistance person used to also bring her library books.
12:46:36 <elliott_> I mean, I got to spend weekends at home rather soon after being admitted as an inpatient, mercifully. so book supply wasn't a problem. but social isolation isn't great (for me) even with nice books
12:46:43 <b_jonas> luckily my grandma isn't wheelchair-bound, but that's still not enough
12:46:53 <fizzie> Third floor, no elevator and a wheelchair was probably not the easiest combination.
12:48:30 <fizzie> (I think she spent at least two decades like that.)
12:49:35 <elliott_> (and lack of a computer really doesn't help when you're a 13 year old autistic kid who thinks about programming constantly :p)
12:51:32 <fizzie> I used to write C into a notebook with pen an paper when doing our traditional week-or-four visits to the no-electricity-or-anything summer cabin around that age. (Just to be clear, I'm not comparing my summer vacations to being in a mental health institute.)
12:52:27 <elliott_> well, Finnish summer is probably comparable.
13:20:39 <mroman> There's a whole book shelf here
13:21:31 <mroman> technically if you're well this would be a very good place to live
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14:04:21 <paul2520> fizzie: I try to remember to bring a notebook when I suspect I might not have access to a computer/Internet. Always good to write down code or project ideas.
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16:41:49 <Taneb> Haha! All the close parens
16:45:43 <fizzie> I have a piece of Scheme code (from a friend) that has maybe a twenty or so )s at the end -- and they're arranged to form a giant ASCII-art ")".
16:46:21 <Taneb> I only have 10 so far
16:46:32 <fizzie> I know a couple of systems support a thing like ] being strong enough to close all currently open (s up to the top level.
16:46:51 <fizzie> Personally I think it just looks too unbalanced that way.
16:47:13 <Taneb> That's kind of creepy
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17:05:47 <tromp> for balanced parentheses, see ioccc/2012/zeitak
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17:07:46 <rjmacready_> what do you think of this as an esolang (nevermind the name) https://github.com/fabriceleal/Multitasks, docs here: https://github.com/fabriceleal/Multitasks/wiki
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17:18:55 <int-e> Taneb: 10 is easily enough: http://sprunge.us/ebJN
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17:31:02 <fizzie> TIL: A very fancy Z80 golf trick.
17:32:48 <fizzie> "jr cc, skip; rst 38h; skip: ..." can be done one byte shorter by a single "jr !cc, $+1" (where cc and !cc are a pair of corresponding condition codes).
17:34:03 <fizzie> It conditionally jumps to the middle of the jr opcode-and-argument, and the argument is 0xff (because it's a signed 8-bit offset from the next instruction) which just so happens to be the single-byte rst 38h, leaving the instruction stream re-synchronized again.
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18:05:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40659&oldid=40612 * 204.154.122.227 * (+131) Added the JFlick interpreter
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18:08:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40660&oldid=40390 * 204.154.122.227 * (+131) JFlick Interpreter
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22:30:48 <ais523> many people are under the misconception that all IRC channels have continuous conversation all the time
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22:48:11 <brandonson> to be fair, there are some that come close
22:48:35 <ais523> even #ubuntu is silent for a few minutes sometimes, I've seen it happen
22:50:40 <brandonson> ais523: in the context of internet-based conversation, I'm not sure that matters. could've been a solar flare or something :p
22:51:08 <ais523> well I didn't try talking at the time
22:51:16 <ais523> but I probably could have done
23:02:09 <Sgeo> I assume Today widgets require less customization to use than Android widgets?
23:09:00 <olsner> widgets? are you making a weather widget or a clock widget?
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23:09:45 <Sgeo> I'm thinking about switching from Android to iOS
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23:16:23 <Taneb> Today I had a weird realisation
23:16:28 <Taneb> I look like a real person
23:18:10 <Taneb> Like, if I saw someone who looked like me, I wouldn't be surprised (assuming I didn't look like me?)
23:18:23 <boily> Sgeo: the motivation being?
23:18:44 <ais523> Taneb: most people look like people, though
23:18:50 <ais523> so you're hardly unusual, in that respect
23:18:59 <ais523> also, stop giving elliott_ information with which to accidentally recognise you
23:19:05 <oerjan> Taneb: you may be self-deluding http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyLookLikeUsNow
23:19:10 <olsner> Taneb: have you considered that you might actually *be* a real person?
23:19:10 <elliott_> I've seen Taneb's face multiple times
23:19:25 <Taneb> ais523, I'm not exactly private in what I look like
23:19:35 <Taneb> ais523, and, I don't know, it's weird
23:19:43 <elliott_> also I think me and Taneb have diverged sufficiently to significantly lower the existential risk posed by us meeting
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23:19:46 <boily> Taneb: you look like something that looks like Taneb.
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23:20:34 <Taneb> For a start, I am not in Hexham any more
23:20:57 <ais523> that'll help, at least
23:21:56 <Taneb> And I do not imagine elliott_ visiting York any time soon
23:23:55 <elliott_> hexham doesn't actually exist.
23:26:32 <elliott_> we just made it up as a long-running gag.
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23:36:07 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro myname mroman(use query)
23:37:09 <Taneb> oerjan, can I go on the please ask please tell lisst
23:37:25 <oerjan> sorry, but that's the default
23:38:48 <Sgeo> boily: constant UI frustration
23:42:32 <boily> how come? I am intrigued.
23:42:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: taneblist: not found
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23:46:17 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, and this sentence.
23:47:56 <Sgeo> boily: the back button is total nonsense, the scroll bars ... I understand why they act the way they do, but it's accidentally a bad behavior (not sure if it's Android or Samsung's TouchWiz)
23:48:29 <oerjan> Taneb: i think it's been a while since we heard about you inventing something
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23:49:38 <boily> Sgeo: are you talking about the back button, or the back button, or the other back button? :P
23:50:05 <boily> I agree with there being so many different back buttons, but what about the scrollbars?
23:51:07 <Sgeo> In most apps, when I'm scrolling, I often touch the edge of the screen. Sometimes my finger collides with the scrollbar itself, and starts moving the scrollbar, resulting in very fast scrolling in the direction opposite of what I intended
23:51:43 <Taneb> oerjan, I have slipped somewhat
23:51:51 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards, and five genders. (See also: tanebventions)
23:52:02 <boily> Sgeo: oh, indeed. that subtle alternative fast reverse scrollbar. I dread it.
23:52:24 <Taneb> My primary keyboard broke :(
23:53:24 <Taneb> This backup has a dodgy shift key
23:54:30 <boily> have you heard of our Lord the Mechanical Keyboard?
23:54:40 <Taneb> boily, my primary is mechanical
23:54:52 <Taneb> I think some food got stuck behind the w and e keys
23:55:00 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/keyboards/keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys/' wisdom/taneb
23:56:15 <boily> Taneb: pop the keys and wash them?
23:56:37 <Taneb> boily, I'm lazy but I'll do that eventurally
23:57:42 <boily> also, which model is it? what keys?
23:58:21 <Taneb> Don't know. The layout is UK qwerty
23:58:29 <Taneb> And it's about 13 years old