00:02:51 What if Apple offered a tiered App Store. So that, say, there's a Tier 1, which iOS devices are on by default, and Tier 2, which supports things like custom home screens. Apps still need to pass review, and it's the review that decides the tier. The worst thing that hapenns if someone clicks through security is a slightly confusing experience. Maybe encouraging users to click through could be grounds for rejection 00:03:17 There's no motivation for devs to just get lazy and send to tier 2, beccause they don't get that choice 00:03:49 what problem is that supposed to solve? 00:04:14 The problem where custom home screens etc. require jailbreaking 00:04:30 + the problem that custom home screens can confuse users 00:04:38 (without banning them) 00:06:28 why are either of those problems to apple? 00:06:37 they don't care about home screens. they'd rather they didn't exist at all 00:06:57 if you want a different homescreen you can... buy a different phone? 00:07:44 Sgeo: You 00:07:52 -!- nys_ has changed nick to nys. 00:07:53 You're proposing something that's very un-Apple. 00:08:27 This is about as much of an Apple idea as permitting clone Macs. 00:08:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:08:41 I mean, if you don't agree with Apple's philosophies or priorities that's fine, but I'm not sure why you're puzzled that they follow them 00:08:54 and there's certainly a huge market for them as they are 00:10:27 It's important to remember that Apple really isn't trying to market a flexible, customizable device. They really are going with "any color you like as long it's black." 00:11:12 pikhq: tbh, they're loosening on that 00:11:17 you can install keyboards now!! 00:11:38 but I don't expect custom home screens, ever. 00:11:41 Yeah, and they did ship out ROMs for clone Macs back in the day. :) 00:12:08 well, iOS and OS X have both literally just added considerable shared machinery for secure extensions 00:12:29 They pulled an app for using the Today screen to host app launching icons 00:12:50 I think it's a slight shift in philosophy, but I imagine there's a *practical* reason they didn't want them initially in addition to any philosophical ones: security 00:13:11 elliott_: Oh, certainly. 00:13:23 ...so they didn't bother even thinking about going to all the effort of sandboxing everything effectively until it actually seemed like it was high in demand/a good idea that they could execute well 00:13:56 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:14:04 Sandboxing is a Hard Problem, and punting on it by making the lack of it irrelevant is a reasonable solution. 00:14:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:14:28 Android seems to more have punted on it by declaring it not a problem. :P 00:16:56 pikhq: is it just me, or does Android have a horrible scrolling experience. Sometimes I scroll with my finger near the right edge of the screen, and it will sometimes hit the scroll bar, causing the scrolling to go in the opposite direction from what I intended and very fast 00:17:01 yeah, Android is so free-for-all and open to customisation and I think it demonstrates pretty well why there are advantages to Apple's approach :p 00:17:01 Does iOS do that or is it sane? 00:17:18 I don't think you can grip iOS scrollbars at all. 00:17:33 Fine by me 00:17:34 they're transient like OS X's and I don't think they're anything but visual. 00:17:40 elliott_: It actually makes the strengths and weaknesses of both approaches rather blatant. 00:17:42 well, it's kind of annoying when you want to scroll to the end. 00:17:43 Is there a chance that Android will fix this soon? 00:18:06 Or should I stop hoping for Android to get its act together 00:18:15 pikhq: yeah. but I still wouldn't wanted to have use Android at all until pretty recently, and even now... 00:18:32 Honestly, Android actually does get rather dramatically better with each release. 00:18:55 especially /early on/ I think iOS benefitted tremendously from focusing on getting things right without too much outside interference and gradually opening up 00:19:17 and Android played catch-up for a long time because they didn't have those priorities to start with 00:19:24 ... which is quite fortunate. The UI experience when they started made Gnome look intelligently designed. 00:19:54 My phone from last year has a physical menu button 00:19:55 :/ 00:20:15 Android was also pretty hurt by pretty much redoing the basic conception of what it should be like not that long before release. 00:20:53 They pretty much redid giant chunks of the UI after iOS happened. 00:21:16 Cause they were trying to be a Blackberry killer. :) 00:21:56 wasn't gnome at version 2 when android came out? 00:22:04 Yes. 00:22:04 gnome 2 was really inoffensive :p 00:22:26 KDE 4 had just release, too. 00:22:35 ... Which is a better comparison. 00:22:45 KDE 4 was a freaking clusterfuck. 00:23:36 Sgeo: which android version is that, I don't see any scrollbars to interact with... 00:23:44 KDE 4 seems to have completely destroyed KDE's popularity 00:23:47 which is kind of amusing and sad 00:24:02 4.4.2 00:24:06 like people hated gnome 3 too but nobody ever talks about KDE any more except when they're noting that nobody takes about KDE any more 00:24:09 *talks 00:25:32 I wonder what in the world things are gonna look like in a few years. Gnome 3 seems to be taking GTK down with it. 00:25:57 Sgeo: hmm. same here. there are scrollbar-like location indicators, but I don't remember seeing any scrollbar. (I just tried with a large image in Chrome) 00:26:40 Try putting your thumb over the scrollbar-like indicator 00:26:56 pikhq: eh, I think gnome 3 is doing okay. 00:27:01 popularity-wise 00:27:07 Also, try Gmail instead of Chrome 00:27:15 I had a harder time reproducing in Chrome 00:27:18 arguably everything but unity is doing badly because it's hard to compete with ubuntu's numbers, but... 00:27:36 (I also think gnome 3 isn't that bad honestly, but) 00:27:54 (Pretty sure it's not Gmail specific because reddit is fun also does it, and it's usually where I ahve the most pain) 00:28:12 Isn't Mint bigger than Ubuntu these days? :) 00:28:15 Chrome probably draws its own like on every platform. 00:28:17 I can't try gmail, all it does is ask for an account, not realizing that this is pointless when the tablet is offline. 00:28:23 pikhq: I seriously doubt that. 00:28:58 Oh, just #1 on DistroWatch. Which is the least scientific methodology. 00:29:00 Are iPhone URL schemes akin to Android intents? 00:29:08 yeah, like most ubuntu users are gonna look at distrowatch ever 00:30:09 int-e: try settings? 00:31:28 Sgeo: same there, it indicates position but I can't interact with it. 00:31:38 Hmm 00:31:49 I'm not on stock Android, wonder if that's related 00:31:54 * Sgeo glares at Samsung 00:33:32 samsung do a bunch of terrible things to their android yes 00:34:25 Including fudging with the scroll bars? 00:35:24 Possibly. 00:35:52 I don't know. 00:35:53 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TouchWiz 00:35:53 they do a lot. 00:36:22 "Tizen (/ˈtaɪzɛn/) is an operating system based on the Linux kernel and the GNU C Library implementing the Linux API." what a weird opening sentence 00:39:43 "glibc" *points, laughs* 00:48:45 I'm in contact with several Samsung people working on Tizen 00:48:52 guess what they say 00:50:17 "I envy the dead"? 00:58:17 -!- tswett has joined. 00:59:02 Show that for all n ≥ 1, s(n) ≤ H_n + exp(H_n) log(H_n), where s(n) is the sum of divisors function and H_n is the nth harmonic number. 01:01:58 -!- scarf has joined. 01:01:58 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:02:28 no 01:03:08 -!- scarf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:03:24 -!- scarf has joined. 01:08:58 What does exp(H_n) look like, anyway? 01:09:15 lifthrasiir: I'm still anticipating 01:09:49 about Tizen? 01:10:10 What do they say? What do they say? 01:10:21 About the acropolis 01:10:26 Where the parthenon is? 01:12:19 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:12:37 not hard to guess, but something similar to "we are fucked up" 01:19:59 tswett: e*e^(1/2)*...*e^(1/n) hth 01:20:59 And, of course, e^(1/n) = 1 + 1/n. 01:21:04 For overwhelmingly large values of n. 01:21:21 COULD BE 01:21:26 So exp(H_n) probably grows... something like linearly? 01:24:11 1 + 1/2 + ... + 1/n is less than a constant away from int_0^n 1/x dx, iirc 01:24:36 Oh right. 01:24:46 "On May 14, 2013, Cydia Substrate for the Android operating system was released.[24]" 01:24:49 Wait what? 01:26:50 * tswett > sequence_ . map print . (\x -> zipWith (-) (tail x) x) . map exp . scanl (+) 0 . map (1/) $ [1..100] 01:27:39 mapM hth 01:27:46 *mapM_ 01:27:53 AAAAAAH! mapMs everywhere! 01:28:13 boily: are you afraid of haskell 01:29:03 no. shachaf gave me Applicative homework the other day, and I've been obsessing over it since then. 01:29:27 well that would be traverse, not mapM 01:29:43 oerjan: hey you can't give the answer away like that 01:30:01 So what's 1.781072418? 01:30:05 Well, you aren't allowed to use traverse. You have to implement it on your own. 01:30:50 e to the power of the Euler–Mascheroni constant, that's what it is. 01:31:00 So yeah. It's linear. 01:31:48 I wonder if there exists a constant k such that the statement is still true if you replace log(H_n) with k. 01:39:49 -!- scarf has quit. 02:00:23 Harmonic series? 02:01:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DIVERGENT CHICKEN). 02:01:13 Hmm, as an approximation to logarithms? 02:04:20 i'm sure it must have other uses... 02:07:04 Needless to say, log(H_n) grows very slowly. 02:44:48 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:55:20 -!- MoALTz has joined. 02:58:57 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:15:51 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tipforgame * New user account 03:16:18 * oerjan smells a spammer 03:17:53 [wiki] [[Fifa 15]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40657 * Tipforgame * (+5530) All About The Game Fifa 15 03:18:54 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Fifa 15]]": Spam: content was: "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia FIFA 15 is surely an soccer simulation video game that is generated by EA Canada and published by Electronic Arts. It..." (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Tipforgame|Tipforgame]]") 03:19:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:19:36 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:Tipforgame]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites 03:21:33 oerjan: okay but this spam is kinda great 03:21:58 the thesaurus words 03:23:34 hm? it's based on wikipedia, clearly. 03:24:16 you mean the synonym replacements 03:28:12 [wiki] [[BANCStar]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40658&oldid=40654 * Oerjan * (+46) /* Implementation */ There is no such thing as BANCStar 03:28:48 yeah 03:39:10 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:43:56 -!- MoALTz has joined. 03:44:02 -!- Deewiant has joined. 03:46:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: "It's abominable!). 03:50:41 Someone's example of why they like jailbreaking: "iFile - File browser and file management" 03:50:54 Apple disallows file browsers? 03:51:22 I guess Apple wants people to have a no-need-to-deal-with-files experience. So they block things that break that 03:51:34 I think Google wants a similar experience, but not so blocky ofc 03:56:08 Nod32 thinks that www.jailbreakme.com is dangerous content 03:57:09 Mind you, it is scary that a website was able to jailbreak 03:59:45 The clear solution is to make file systems for phones based the captchalog system from Homestuck. 04:00:20 "Method 2 : Get Cydia Icon on iOS 7 without Jailbreak" What... is the point of that? 04:00:43 So you have stuff like phones that only store one file of each of a small number of hash values. 04:00:47 Oh 04:00:49 "You will now see Cydia icon on your iPhone 5 home screen running iOS 7 . It does not jailbreak your device , but tricks someone into believing that you have a jailbroken phone ." 04:01:56 Or everyhing in a stack/queue. 04:02:37 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:03:19 *everything 04:04:13 -!- newsham has quit (Quit: system down). 04:09:01 Sgeo: apple disallows /files 04:09:04 / 04:09:48 MDude: sometimes I feel like real filesystems are approximately as painful to navigate. 04:12:39 Feel like OSX and iOS are opposites 04:12:59 FScript on OSX probably allows for a lot of tampering with apps, if I understand correctly (maybe I don't) 04:18:50 Sgeo: Android comes with a file browser 04:19:04 So it's the opposite of iOS 04:31:45 Would Apple allow the equivalent of Android's View Web Source app? 04:32:10 "To get the source from the page you are currently viewing in the browser, you can now use the share feature from the menu and select View Web Source." 04:32:14 Since it's not really 'sharing' 04:32:49 Apparently. 04:32:49 http://www.imore.com/new-view-source-app-ios-8-lets-safari-users-view-source-code-web-sites 04:32:54 Of course, it costs money 04:41:00 -!- MDream has joined. 04:44:37 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:45:26 -!- MDude has joined. 04:46:33 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:50:49 -!- MDream has joined. 04:54:46 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:28:17 "I want to acknowledge you that we have finally succeeded in getting your ATM VISA CARD worth’s of $3.5USD out of ECOWAS department --" over three dollars! 05:30:40 fizzie: spam? 05:36:03 fizzie: btw, do those old computers actually boot? 05:38:51 elliott_: Yes. Though I might have to do something to them to remove any PERSONAL DATA. 05:39:09 elliott_: You can boot both over a LAN, if I remember correctly. 05:39:14 an exorcism 05:39:26 oh dear, that's fancy 05:39:37 an actual network, just like sun always dreamed of 05:39:52 elliott_: The Sparc is a bit picky about it, you need a BOOTP server (it doesn't do DHCP) and the TFTP server for the kernel needs to be the same machine. 05:40:11 honestly I've never even done netbooting at all. 05:40:21 And the kernel it fetches over the net needs to have a particular name related to the hardware model. 05:40:32 There's OpenBSD $SOME_ANCIENT_VERSION installed on it at the moment. 05:40:55 The SGI box has an IRIX six point something of dubious legality on it, and I have no install media. 05:41:21 I have a vague recollection that you can run Linux on it, but it might have had a less than perfectly supported variant of the graphics framebuffer. 05:42:34 On the other hand, if you keep the IRIX it's just like in Jurassic Park. 05:43:23 There's also an external Sun SCSI box of maybe four two-gigabytes-or-so disks that I had hooked up to the Indy. 05:43:49 this is pure decadence. 05:44:19 these machines are the kind of thing we need snapshot backups of actual physical objects fo 05:44:23 r 05:44:44 I think I had a SGI monitor for the Indy. 05:44:54 Though I'm not 100% sure on that. 05:46:04 have to use a CRT of appropriate vintage or it's cheating 05:46:40 I also have the feeling that both use the Sun "13W3" display interface, and I have somewhere a 13W3 -> 4xBNC cable that you can hook up to any CRT display that (a) has the "component"-style BNC inputs and (b) accepts a combined H/V sync instead of the VGA-style separate one. 05:47:20 @_@ 05:47:31 getting these working is gonna cost me 05:47:40 The SGI box might've done sync-on-green instead. At least my old Samsung SyncMaster CRT happily supported both, and it was just a regular PC monitor, so it's not fancy. 05:47:47 You can run both over the serial console, but it's not as fancy. 05:47:50 I don't even own a single CRT. 05:48:07 I don't own one any more either. Except for that SGI monitor that I think I still have. 05:48:35 The Indy has a "webcam" attached to it, and does video input, since it was billed as a kind of a "multimedia" machine. 05:49:05 that's cute 05:49:41 Oh, and it also accepts regular PS/2 keyboards and mice, if I'm not mistaken. The SparcStation doesn't, but I have a Sun Type X (where X is something from 3 to 5, probably 5) keyboard and mouse for it. 05:49:51 There's a labeled, physical compose key and all. 05:50:54 http://www.gibi.de/gibi/StuffForSale/Sun_Type5c_US+Unix-Keyboard_320-1234.JPG <- like this but not so pink. 05:51:15 aww. you should have gotten the pink keyboard. 05:51:33 It might be slightly yellow from age. 05:51:36 I like the mystery key to the left of F1 05:51:39 like a blank tile in scrabble 05:51:42 it can be anything you want 05:51:59 I also like how it looks ancient but has media keys 05:54:47 I don't remember what the mystery key is for. 05:55:09 http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19683-01/806-4743/images/keyboard_a.tif.gif it's empty also in the official layout diagram 05:55:30 at least I know where the power key is 05:55:46 Separate "cut", "copy" and "paste" keys too. 05:55:54 And a big "help" one if you're feeling scared. 05:56:12 I'm always scared. 05:56:35 I like the "Again" key. 05:56:37 [HELP] [AGAIN] 05:56:53 http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=332 06:02:56 I grepped the logs for some specs. The Indy is model IP22 -- http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/IP22 -- and has the 150 MHz (!) MIPS R5000 CPU on it, along with 48 megs of RAM and GR3-XZ graphics (hardware-accelerated 3D!). 06:03:50 http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/File:SGI_Indy.jpg this is such a "early 2000s unix user" screenshot... photo 06:03:54 *an 06:04:10 that's probably like 06:04:13 well I guess xdm can't do transparent 06:04:14 cy 06:04:20 "This is my own Indy and the photo was taken by me, Sebastian Wenzler, Germany, 2004-12-05." 06:04:22 it can do naked girls though 06:05:51 the indy is so cute, though 06:06:17 "Support of more than 384MB memory requires a 64-bit Linux kernel." um? 06:08:19 I think the R5000 has 64-bit registers, yes. 06:08:29 I'm not entirely sure about that, though. 06:08:49 MIPS III variants certainly exist in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. 06:09:14 "The R4000 series, released in 1991, extended the MIPS instruction set to a full 64-bit architecture, moved the FPU onto the main die to create a single-chip microprocessor, and operated at a radically high internal clock speed (it was introduced at 100 MHz). --" 06:09:40 I mean, why 384? 06:09:41 "The R5000 FPU had more flexible single precision floating-point scheduling than the R4000, and as a result, R5000-based SGI Indys had much better graphics performance than similarly clocked R4400 Indys with the same graphics hardware." 06:09:53 that's kind of less than anywhere near 32 bits of address space. 06:10:08 -!- erdic_ has joined. 06:10:19 I don't know, but I'm sure there's a very good reason. Maybe it needs a linearly mapped copy of the physical memory for reason X, and... who knows. 06:10:43 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:10:43 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:10:44 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:10:50 -!- erdic_ has changed nick to erdic. 06:11:22 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:12:43 And the Sparc box is a SparcStation 5 -- http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_ss5/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARCstation_5 -- that at least originally had the 85 MHz µSPARC-II on it, but it's possible I got a 110 MHz variant motherboard from someone. And 32 megs of RAM. 06:13:01 It eats same sort of SIMMs you could stick in a PC, IIRC. 06:13:05 -!- scounder has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:13:05 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:13:27 upgrading retro hardware has always seemed like rather missing the point to me 06:14:20 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Sparcstack.jpg nice 06:14:25 good way to adjust your monitor height 06:14:43 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:14:49 -!- int-e has joined. 06:15:11 -!- conehead has joined. 06:15:34 I don't have the slim CD-rom drive you can see in those pictures. 06:15:40 It might have the floppy drive, though. 06:20:05 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:23:19 -!- scounder has joined. 06:25:08 -!- conehead has joined. 06:27:15 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 06:27:15 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:27:46 -!- Jafet has left. 06:30:12 scounder: ...what do you have against couches, anyway? 06:32:49 -!- ^v has joined. 06:38:45 -!- conehead has quit (Excess Flood). 06:39:26 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:42:29 -!- scounder has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:43:39 -!- conehead has joined. 06:43:40 -!- conehead has quit (Changing host). 06:43:40 -!- conehead has joined. 06:45:30 -!- myname has joined. 06:48:01 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:49:11 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Quit). 06:49:44 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:49:44 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:49:52 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:49:55 -!- ineiros has joined. 06:50:09 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 06:50:09 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:51:21 -!- scounder has joined. 06:52:21 -!- Jafet has quit (Client Quit). 06:53:42 -!- conehead has joined. 06:53:52 -!- scounder has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 06:53:52 -!- conehead has quit (Changing host). 06:53:52 -!- conehead has joined. 06:54:15 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:55:12 couches are awesome 06:55:45 -!- Jafet has quit (Client Quit). 06:58:03 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:58:39 -!- myname has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:58:48 -!- myname has joined. 06:59:24 -!- viznut_ has joined. 07:05:55 -!- idris-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 07:05:55 -!- viznut has quit (*.net *.split). 07:05:55 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 07:05:55 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 07:05:56 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (*.net *.split). 07:05:56 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 07:11:59 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:11:59 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 07:11:59 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:13:08 -!- ion has joined. 07:18:15 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:28:44 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:31:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:34:40 why is tar more common than cpio again? 07:40:14 okay, I guess the format is just better. 07:40:17 cpio's UI seems nicer though. 07:40:23 I guess that's why pax exists. 07:45:42 also "curl -L http://foo/bar.zip | bsdcpio -i" is cool 07:47:17 though weirdly, | bsdtar -xf - sets the permissions differently 08:19:42 -!- scounder has joined. 08:19:42 -!- conehead has joined. 08:19:42 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 08:30:30 -!- scounder has quit (*.net *.split). 08:30:30 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 08:30:30 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:48 -!- scounder has joined. 08:35:48 -!- conehead has joined. 08:35:48 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 08:46:27 -!- scounder has quit (*.net *.split). 08:46:27 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 08:46:27 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:59 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:37:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:52:17 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 09:52:32 -!- conehead has joined. 09:54:32 -!- scounder has joined. 10:14:48 -!- tromp__ has joined. 10:18:36 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:22:14 -!- boily has joined. 10:58:10 Help I think I want to use call/cc 10:59:37 Taneb: on #esoteric, that's normal 10:59:59 I think I don't need it 11:00:03 Thank god 11:00:05 I can breath now 11:00:12 Taneb: in code with or without mutable data structures or mutable bindings? 11:00:21 Currently without 11:00:59 but not in unlambda, right? in unlambda, it's completely normal to use call/cc because the input primitives return crazy values 11:01:20 think of call/cc being like a dangerous poisonous deadly dynamic goto. 11:01:39 This is in Racket 11:01:56 Taneb: consider using call/ec instead if you can 11:02:08 or maybe scheme r7rs exceptions 11:04:21 oleg's right about call/cc 11:04:34 Whenever a ketchup company advertises that there are 2 kg of tomatoes in 1 kg of their ketchup, I can't help but think of the horrible implied energy releases. 11:04:49 fizzie: what? it's water release, not energy release 11:05:00 elliott_, what does oleg say about call/cc? 11:05:20 that it needs to die, roughly :) 11:05:46 http://okmij.org/ftp/continuations/against-callcc.html 11:06:02 of course! but this is #esoteric, where we embrace bad ideas 11:06:23 elliott_, makes sense 11:06:32 b_jonas: sure :p 11:07:06 water is energy! coffee is made from water, and coffee has energy! 11:12:10 Taneb: Delimited continuations! (I know nothing about them, execpt that they're supposedly fancy, and shift/reset is involved.) 11:13:24 I guess elliott_'s link mentions the same thing. 11:14:24 fizzie: they're just continuations except instead of "rest of program" it's "up to the specified enclosing shift". 11:14:30 or reset. I forget which combinator is which. 11:15:39 That sounds suspiciously simple. 11:16:27 fizzie: for instance haskell's Cont is delimited continuations. 11:16:55 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EXCELLENT CHICKEN). 11:17:54 I think I am not very good at Racket 11:17:59 Well 11:18:13 I'm overcomplicating it for my level of skill by trying to do clever stuff I'm used to in Haskell 11:18:29 But because Haskell and Racket are such different languages I am confusing myself 11:18:59 So you're trying to write in Raskell (or possibly Hacket). 11:20:04 Yeah, except I'm not even using the extensions of Racket that would make this so much easier 11:41:53 Taneb: right. that's like when I compiled to prolog such that the resulting program used nothing of the logic programming capabilities of prolog. 11:42:28 but I had an excuse for that. 11:43:24 fizzie: I meant to say 10min on foot, 11min with the tram, 5min on foot, 30min with the train, 10min on foot 11:43:27 that's my commute 11:43:38 (internet here closes at about 23 o'clock) 11:44:52 mroman: right. if only we could just travel once, then save a continuation or coroutine at home and one at the office and just context switch between them for free 11:46:23 the time/memory tradeoff would be totally worth 11:48:04 coroutines 11:48:07 I never liked them 11:48:32 The Internet is closed at night? 11:48:46 But that makes more sense, yes. 11:49:08 fizzie: in the clinic yes. 11:51:49 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:52:43 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 12:05:22 what kinda clinic 12:10:55 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 12:13:08 mental health 12:19:20 "Sounds like they'd be better of keeping it closed all the time." 12:20:24 idgi 12:23:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:25:17 fizzie: why? 12:25:24 are you annoyed by my presence? 12:26:36 ... name="agent-self" value="1.0" /> See, the Internet is bad for your mental health and... never mind. 12:28:05 (If you don't read EmotionML, that's "mild disappointment caused by own action".) 12:31:58 IME the internet is the only thing that keeps your mental health going :p 12:33:35 I guess that might depend on which part of it you read/watch/listen/experience/consume/subsume. 12:35:31 trust me, it's difficult to find parts of the internet worse than being isolated from everything that interests you and everyone you care about in a mental health facility. 12:37:13 I hope there are at least books too 12:37:58 past tense, thank god 12:39:16 what? is it closed? 12:39:41 no, they just let me out :p 12:39:51 well, not no: actually yes, it did close shortly afterwards 12:40:50 But what about the books? (I'm imagining the sort of book collection you sometimes see in a hotel lobby bookshelf, built by stuff left by tenants.) 12:43:04 it was an not exciting selection. but bringing in your own was ok. (bringing in anything that can access the internet was not: I had to smuggle my phone in.) 12:43:10 *not an 12:43:53 -!- idris-bot has joined. 12:45:00 elliott_: can't you just pre-order and borrow books from a library every three weeks, like some old people here do because they have difficulty getting the books from the library in person? 12:46:01 I think my (wheelchair-bound) grandmother's food-and-other-home-assistance person used to also bring her library books. 12:46:36 I mean, I got to spend weekends at home rather soon after being admitted as an inpatient, mercifully. so book supply wasn't a problem. but social isolation isn't great (for me) even with nice books 12:46:43 luckily my grandma isn't wheelchair-bound, but that's still not enough 12:46:52 elliott_: of course 12:46:53 Third floor, no elevator and a wheelchair was probably not the easiest combination. 12:48:30 (I think she spent at least two decades like that.) 12:49:35 (and lack of a computer really doesn't help when you're a 13 year old autistic kid who thinks about programming constantly :p) 12:51:32 I used to write C into a notebook with pen an paper when doing our traditional week-or-four visits to the no-electricity-or-anything summer cabin around that age. (Just to be clear, I'm not comparing my summer vacations to being in a mental health institute.) 12:52:27 well, Finnish summer is probably comparable. 13:20:39 There's a whole book shelf here 13:20:55 and a piano 13:20:57 two tvs 13:21:02 a billiard table 13:21:31 technically if you're well this would be a very good place to live 13:35:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:42:19 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:46:25 -!- evalj has joined. 14:04:21 fizzie: I try to remember to bring a notebook when I suspect I might not have access to a computer/Internet. Always good to write down code or project ideas. 14:06:29 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:30:57 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:47:31 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:48:11 -!- Bike has joined. 15:10:42 -!- S1 has joined. 15:16:56 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:20:16 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:22:50 -!- mihow has joined. 16:40:55 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 16:41:49 Haha! All the close parens 16:45:43 I have a piece of Scheme code (from a friend) that has maybe a twenty or so )s at the end -- and they're arranged to form a giant ASCII-art ")". 16:46:16 Oh wow 16:46:21 I only have 10 so far 16:46:32 I know a couple of systems support a thing like ] being strong enough to close all currently open (s up to the top level. 16:46:51 Personally I think it just looks too unbalanced that way. 16:47:13 That's kind of creepy 16:49:47 -!- mihow has joined. 16:51:42 -!- newsham has joined. 17:03:49 -!- S1 has changed nick to S0. 17:05:47 for balanced parentheses, see ioccc/2012/zeitak 17:07:00 -!- rjmacready_ has joined. 17:07:21 hey guys 17:07:46 what do you think of this as an esolang (nevermind the name) https://github.com/fabriceleal/Multitasks, docs here: https://github.com/fabriceleal/Multitasks/wiki 17:09:31 -!- nyuszika7h has joined. 17:18:55 Taneb: 10 is easily enough: http://sprunge.us/ebJN 17:27:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:31:02 TIL: A very fancy Z80 golf trick. 17:32:48 "jr cc, skip; rst 38h; skip: ..." can be done one byte shorter by a single "jr !cc, $+1" (where cc and !cc are a pair of corresponding condition codes). 17:34:03 It conditionally jumps to the middle of the jr opcode-and-argument, and the argument is 0xff (because it's a signed 8-bit offset from the next instruction) which just so happens to be the single-byte rst 38h, leaving the instruction stream re-synchronized again. 17:34:22 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:41:42 -!- carbone has joined. 17:42:18 -!- carbone has quit (Client Quit). 17:42:33 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 18:05:02 [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40659&oldid=40612 * 204.154.122.227 * (+131) Added the JFlick interpreter 18:05:02 -!- nyuszika7h has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:05:34 -!- nyuszika7h has joined. 18:06:57 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:08:05 [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40660&oldid=40390 * 204.154.122.227 * (+131) JFlick Interpreter 18:10:03 -!- mihow has joined. 18:18:39 -!- rjmacready_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:21:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:23:37 -!- nyuszika7h has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:24:01 -!- nyuszika7h has joined. 18:25:24 -!- InputUsername has joined. 19:03:01 -!- InputUsername has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:09:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:13:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:18:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:19:42 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:33:51 -!- S0 has changed nick to S1. 19:35:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:37:10 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: later chat). 20:07:47 -!- lambdabot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:08:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:09:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:12:10 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:24:48 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:24:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:24:52 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 20:25:10 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:33:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:36:33 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:46:25 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:46:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:46:50 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 20:47:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:59:34 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:13:12 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:50:42 -!- boily has joined. 21:52:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:57:03 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 21:57:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:08:17 -!- scounder has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:15:15 -!- recycler has joined. 22:16:31 test 22:16:40 -!- recycler has left. 22:20:57 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:20:59 -!- Froox has joined. 22:30:28 did it pass 22:30:35 not sure 22:30:48 many people are under the misconception that all IRC channels have continuous conversation all the time 22:37:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:46:07 how absurd 22:48:11 to be fair, there are some that come close 22:48:35 even #ubuntu is silent for a few minutes sometimes, I've seen it happen 22:50:40 ais523: in the context of internet-based conversation, I'm not sure that matters. could've been a solar flare or something :p 22:51:08 well I didn't try talking at the time 22:51:16 but I probably could have done 23:02:09 I assume Today widgets require less customization to use than Android widgets? 23:09:00 widgets? are you making a weather widget or a clock widget? 23:09:02 -!- MDude has joined. 23:09:30 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:09:45 I'm thinking about switching from Android to iOS 23:10:55 -!- brandons1 has joined. 23:14:59 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:16:23 Today I had a weird realisation 23:16:28 I look like a real person 23:18:10 Like, if I saw someone who looked like me, I wouldn't be surprised (assuming I didn't look like me?) 23:18:23 Sgeo: the motivation being? 23:18:44 Taneb: most people look like people, though 23:18:50 so you're hardly unusual, in that respect 23:18:59 also, stop giving elliott_ information with which to accidentally recognise you 23:19:05 Taneb: you may be self-deluding http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyLookLikeUsNow 23:19:10 Taneb: have you considered that you might actually *be* a real person? 23:19:10 I've seen Taneb's face multiple times 23:19:25 ais523, I'm not exactly private in what I look like 23:19:35 ais523, and, I don't know, it's weird 23:19:43 also I think me and Taneb have diverged sufficiently to significantly lower the existential risk posed by us meeting 23:19:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:19:46 Taneb: you look like something that looks like Taneb. 23:19:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:20:34 For a start, I am not in Hexham any more 23:20:57 that'll help, at least 23:21:56 And I do not imagine elliott_ visiting York any time soon 23:23:55 hexham doesn't actually exist. 23:26:32 we just made it up as a long-running gag. 23:26:32 -!- elliott_ has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:35:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:36:07 `dontaskdonttelllist 23:36:07 dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ c​o​p​p​r​o​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ m​r​o​m​a​n​(​u​s​e​ ​q​u​e​r​y​)​ 23:37:09 oerjan, can I go on the please ask please tell lisst 23:37:25 sorry, but that's the default 23:38:12 :( 23:38:48 boily: constant UI frustration 23:42:32 how come? I am intrigued. 23:42:44 `taneblist 23:42:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: taneblist: not found 23:42:48 meh. 23:45:48 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:46:16 `? tanebventions 23:46:17 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, and this sentence. 23:47:56 boily: the back button is total nonsense, the scroll bars ... I understand why they act the way they do, but it's accidentally a bad behavior (not sure if it's Android or Samsung's TouchWiz) 23:48:29 Taneb: i think it's been a while since we heard about you inventing something 23:48:57 -!- dianne has joined. 23:49:38 Sgeo: are you talking about the back button, or the back button, or the other back button? :P 23:50:05 I agree with there being so many different back buttons, but what about the scrollbars? 23:51:07 In most apps, when I'm scrolling, I often touch the edge of the screen. Sometimes my finger collides with the scrollbar itself, and starts moving the scrollbar, resulting in very fast scrolling in the direction opposite of what I intended 23:51:43 oerjan, I have slipped somewhat 23:51:50 `? Taneb 23:51:51 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards, and five genders. (See also: tanebventions) 23:52:02 Sgeo: oh, indeed. that subtle alternative fast reverse scrollbar. I dread it. 23:52:24 My primary keyboard broke :( 23:53:24 This backup has a dodgy shift key 23:54:30 have you heard of our Lord the Mechanical Keyboard? 23:54:40 boily, my primary is mechanical 23:54:52 I think some food got stuck behind the w and e keys 23:55:00 `run sed -i 's/keyboards/keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys/' wisdom/taneb 23:55:02 No output. 23:56:15 Taneb: pop the keys and wash them? 23:56:37 boily, I'm lazy but I'll do that eventurally 23:57:42 also, which model is it? what keys? 23:58:21 Don't know. The layout is UK qwerty 23:58:29 And it's about 13 years old