< 1414108800 364916 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goodnight < 1414108812 869816 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1414108830 31389 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves the goodnight dance at Taneb < 1414110456 972851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414110464 619475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414111182 661012 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414111184 54035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414111229 767009 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414112345 364176 :damio!~lindy.cha@123-2-35-55.static.dsl.dodo.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1414112363 575829 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: UNCOMPRESSED CHICKEN < 1414112979 276432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1414114046 536216 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414114195 100652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: is weboflies still a thing? < 1414114207 174364 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the code still exists; I haven't worked on it for ages < 1414114235 477334 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's 32-bit and doesn't compile as 64-bit because it's so level, which isn't necessarily lethal but does make it rather harder to work on < 1414114242 727885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1414114250 387017 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414114256 248078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1414114258 173237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so level" :) < 1414114265 527428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so low-level < 1414114284 1411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lost my copy of the code on an old hard drive (and it was probably an old version anyway) and could probably use learning some things from it now, would you mind giving me it again? < 1414114309 650412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying to figure out which of these files are it and which are other things, I need a src/ folder < 1414114316 782082 :damio!~lindy.cha@123-2-35-55.static.dsl.dodo.com.au PART :#esoteric < 1414114451 320501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, one of the files here has uncertain copyright information < 1414114485 998185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the return values of the KDGKBENT ioctl for all possible arguments, determined experimentally < 1414114550 585809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds uncopyrightable < 1414114562 248323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's coming from some keyboard driver, for instance < 1414114565 962378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm busy looking up what it does to find out < 1414114566 115658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gpl at worst, I suppose? < 1414114578 327878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the reason I had to determine it experimentally was that I couldn't see any pattern < 1414114585 5948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was needed for programs to run < 1414114633 747550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with ioctls is that they're almost undocumented < 1414114637 187173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just get one line of info on each < 1414114644 517152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the kernel source, see if that helps < 1414114725 978399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, this always takes so long to decompress < 1414114829 762482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep a git checkout? :) < 1414114841 77997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it < 1414114844 281207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of sounds like the kind of file that'd be very easy to generate... < 1414114851 786987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's nice to always have the source to your own kernel, exactly < 1414114883 84830 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like fun. http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/tty/vt/keyboard.c#L1783 < 1414114911 612225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I think I've found basically the same info in the Linux kernel < 1414114922 713660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :drivers/tty/vt/defkeymap.c_shipped < 1414114950 1310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it's in a different format < 1414114973 623273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell you what, I'll ship you weboflies without ktt.c, and you can work out how to generate it yourself if you need it < 1414115004 239681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file can definitely be generated, that's how I got it in the first plcae < 1414115009 947812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I should just ship you the generator, if I still have it < 1414115035 487645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aimake.config" < 1414115041 794449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's… an old version of aimake < 1414115102 82551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have part of it, but the rest was probably hand-edited in Emacs < 1414115142 562196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, nethack4.org/pastebin/weboflies.c < 1414115149 771319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me know when you have it < 1414115172 81255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah, no https :) got it < 1414115181 105335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, no I haven't < 1414115182 13657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 404 < 1414115185 665658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, .tgz < 1414115194 69432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1414115265 7895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nice tarbomb, btw < 1414115271 888031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, sorry < 1414115284 109152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't expect me to package it properly when I'm busy trying to figure out which files are which in a hurry < 1414115305 721230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, whether a tar bombs or not should be a recipient-end setting rather than a sender-end setting, but it isn't, so sorry for setting it wrong < 1414115322 43931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm not actually mad < 1414115357 138832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I sent violin to alt.lang.intercal, I went to a bunch of effort making sure that I didn't accidentally do anything wrong in the shar < 1414115366 803016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apparently, screwing up a shar even slightly gets you flamed < 1414115375 172344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this may not be true nowadays, but it was back when shar was written, apparently) < 1414115455 892782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :violin? < 1414115512 387771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a program for working out the effect of assignment statements in INTERCAL < 1414115518 513412 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google violin intercal < 1414115519 735237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theviolinsite.com/music_dictionary/interval.html < 1414115519 889161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Interval - Music Dictionary < 1414115520 849431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is incredibly nontrivial, and all known INTERCAL interps get it wrong < 1414115529 755683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, see my recent post to alt.lang.intercal < 1414115538 161023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, in the presence of operand overloading < 1414115539 638746 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :correcting "c" to "v" is so helpful! *admires google* < 1414115539 792154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without, it's easy < 1414115566 445276 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google violin "intercal" < 1414115567 85303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://groups.google.com/d/forum/alt.lang.intercal < 1414115572 379479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I /finally/ managed to do addition in INTERCAL without any sort of loop, where the length of the program is O(1) on the number of bits < 1414115594 228307 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: congrats < 1414115598 158254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without using the standard library, and without an FFI < 1414115609 866953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess a 32-bit chroot is the easiest way to compile it < 1414115611 154857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program doesn't actually /run/ yet because I haven't linked up C-INTERCAL to violin yet < 1414115637 511607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this is the first time I have ever written a single assignment statement that takes four minutes to run < 1414115665 539141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO :1 <- '"?.1$.2"~"#0$#65535"'$'"&.1$.2"~"#0$#65535"' is the statement < 1414115682 614308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet weboflies would be a bit easier with the additional container features that've been added since < 1414115683 46609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's only so slow because I previously redefined :1: DO :2 <- :1/"'"'#65535$#65535'~'"'?"'"'V"'&.4$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$.9'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~'#32767$#1'"$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#65535'"$.4'~'#0$#65535'"$.9 < 1414115694 550976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it uses most of the container features that existed at the time < 1414115715 720363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. there are some more now though < 1414115734 105208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, there's some debug code that makes my own homedir visible inside the container; you will probably have to remove it or at least change the username < 1414115742 533927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1414115747 93671 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably once you integrate it with C-INTERCAL, if you try to do a reverse assignment which is impossible, you'll get an error like BROKEN INSTRUMENT < 1414115750 340675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mainly want to learn things from it, but executing it would be convenient too < 1414115765 409584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the current error message is THE LAWS OF MATHEMATICS DO NOT DISTORT THAT FAR or something like that < 1414115767 543266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little sad how you need root < 1414115767 844359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but changing it might work < 1414115776 195811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a program designed to do complete isolation < 1414115780 200558 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a good one too < 1414115788 172021 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you should definitely refer to the name "violin" in at least one error < 1414115798 477356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I get disappointed when people change error messages in INTERCAL, just because the new one is good < 1414115802 404796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the old one is often good too < 1414115810 137470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. PROGRAM HAS DISAPPEARED INTO THE BLACK LAGOON is great < 1414115819 598282 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that is one of the more fantastic ones < 1414115826 583773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, that one wasn't a replacement < 1414115843 325166 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1414115845 244354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of THE NEXT STACK RUPTURES. ALL DIE! OH, THE EMBARRASSMENT < 1414115853 964036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which replaced PROGRAM ATTEMPTED TO EXIT WITHOUT ERROR MESSAGE < 1414115923 587465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BLACK LAGOON is a NEXT stack overflow, RUPTURES is a NEXT stack underflow, you can't really blame me for getting them muddled) < 1414115990 876102 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love ERROR HANDLER PRINTED SOME SNIDE REMARK < 1414116005 166233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: right; there's actually WARNING HANDLER PRINTED SNIDE REMARK too < 1414116028 615392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR TYPE 621 ENCOUNTERED is fun too < 1414116041 391456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I documented it as "The compiler encountered error E621 (*note E621::)." < 1414116060 252784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I also explained what situations cause it, after that, so as to not be completely recursively useless < 1414116081 518814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, my favourite out of the messages I personally wrote is YOU HAVE TOO MUCH ROPE TO HANG YOURSELF < 1414116180 816925 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1414116301 664884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL error messaging is an art, and I don't always succeed, it's pretty hard < 1414116323 213197 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :program attempted to exit without error message <-- good < 1414116361 652248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't used anywhere right now < 1414116378 642327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a decent replacement for PROGRAM FELL OFF THE END, actually < 1414116387 787690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have the usual problems with stdlib there < 1414116696 545249 :Tobor!~NECTOR@user-0c6sii0.cable.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414116726 402448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… if you run off the end of an asm program, do you run into the start of libc? < 1414116737 205329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did, I'd imagine it would put up a big PLEASE KNOCK BEFORE ENTERING sign too < 1414116817 225489 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any static linkers actually do that, i wonder < 1414116859 283276 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: THIS SOFTWARE DOES NOT SUPPORT BACK DOORS < 1414116882 265165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well part of the problem is, it has to start with "DO" or "PLEASE" < 1414116998 777843 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was an error < 1414117010 106984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, could you achieve something like weboflies by just running linux in bochs or something? < 1414117016 588813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and patching out stuff like timers to be deterministic < 1414117059 911083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes; actually, weboflies was originally a project to build something like /that/ < 1414117065 476958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :via other means < 1414117077 497348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I thought it'd be easier to get everything deterministic that way < 1414117107 30825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you were correct :) < 1414117117 436982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1414117121 748027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure weboflies is easier than patching bochs < 1414117123 564070 :Tobor!~NECTOR@user-0c6sii0.cable.mindspring.com PART :#esoteric < 1414117154 665087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little unnerving that it's so hard to provide completely reproducible computations... < 1414117236 670307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may well have been wrong < 1414117659 645503 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are dolook and do_look different functions < 1414117667 218090 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to get clang refactoring set up < 1414117697 580321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: in what? weboflies? if not, this is probably the wrong channel < 1414117718 735265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if NetHack 4, though, the answer is "the devteam are bad at naming things, and possibly didn't even realise there was a near-clash" < 1414117931 629884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, does weboflies have, like, a license? < 1414117938 605201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1414117943 78236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's default-all-rights-reserved < 1414117967 174666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to use some of the code in something else directly, or even to finish it and make it work, we could try to agree a license < 1414117985 997557 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, that was meant to be in #nethack4 < 1414118020 210813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. I'm mostly interested in seeing how certain things are done rather than lifting any code, I was mainly asking in terms of redistribution in case I wanted to talk about what it's doing with people I know < 1414118045 275418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I forgot it does graphics < 1414118049 487614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was meant to be secret < 1414118063 11586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually got Battle for Wesnoth to load in it < 1414118069 236409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never managed to actually provide input past that point < 1414118082 537180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then decided I should probably be working on getting X working inside rather than SDL's framebuffer support < 1414118084 759529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about where I stopped < 1414118232 374430 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414118237 851659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414118248 583481 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414118380 441094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I wonder how badly getrandom(2) breaks weboflies < 1414118416 721102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd make it return a constant < 1414118420 913332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or step through a lookup table in order < 1414118422 453632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1414118436 714103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember installing /dev/zero as /dev/null… < 1414118492 3690 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe just it use a weboflies PRNG. < 1414118502 542964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that would be the eventual solution < 1414118505 342476 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google is useless for weboflies < 1414118512 694453 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well no shit. < 1414118518 450464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, getrandom and /dev/random are both intended for gathering seed entropy < 1414118519 259258 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's brain is what we got. < 1414118528 853828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so returning zero constantly would probably have the intended result < 1414118530 921025 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1414118546 407947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: weboflies used to be called The Secret Project < 1414118551 473695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until #esoteric managed to coax its name out of me < 1414118583 599039 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :getrandom can also be used for /dev/urandom access. < 1414118602 463653 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What... is it, if I may ask? Something to make things deterministic? < 1414118620 33759 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's intended as a TAS tool for Linux binaries. < 1414118649 507762 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it *really dang awesome*, if a bit frightening. < 1414118673 367734 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAS as in tool-assisted speedrun? < 1414118676 666650 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1414118690 763966 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1414118997 926524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs speedrun (4m21s) < 1414120425 156062 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funness I realized is possible just now: < 1414120451 149160 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :let data X = X.X < 1414120451 311190 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined < 1414120454 203459 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> :t X < 1414120455 509733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ < 1414120459 388295 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t X < 1414120459 541619 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :04X : 12Type < 1414120459 541790 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :04X.X : 04X < 1414120517 130815 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It miscolors too for some reason.) < 1414122744 773179 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's X.X? < 1414122761 515939 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just a constructor name < 1414123155 85425 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how the table listing Scala annotations and Java equivalent has scala.reflect.BeanProperty's equivalent as being... Design Pattern < 1414123470 828439 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala unapply is basically pattern synonyms, right? < 1414124738 317499 :upgrayeddd!sid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwshmpsvyuyistwh PART :#esoteric < 1414126382 971327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414126388 782964 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414126393 462806 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414126434 551452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: ZZZ < 1414126855 802947 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDream < 1414127247 618532 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's anti-jailbreak propaganda states that "Additionally, third-party apps that use the Apple Push Notification Service have had difficulty receiving notifications or received notifications that were intended for a different hacked device. " < 1414127269 835971 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If notificat... oh, for a different -hacked- device. Was going to note that that kind of implies security is really bad < 1414127437 554047 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://discussions.apple.com/message/18740587 < 1414127438 770320 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1414127954 876062 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Apple rely on manual review for security things that a normal OS would provide? e.g. restricting direct access to hardware? < 1414128009 944151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, they may have some sort of review script < 1414128152 938397 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant in terms of, using a review process instead of, say, rings at the OS level < 1414128173 254483 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that the device assumes that all code is fully trustworthy, and bad apps are blocked at the store level < 1414128191 40178 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would make jailbreaking and using arbitrary apps more dangerous than using Android < 1414128220 680326 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reason I think of this is jailbreak < 1414128221 985104 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1414128228 705445 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.computerworld.com/article/2491294/malware-vulnerabilities/the-pangu-jailbreak-for-ios-could-turn-into-a-sinister-attack.html < 1414128240 534117 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apple thoroughly reviews applications in the App Store to make sure APIs that open up access to functions like a phone's microphone or camera aren't available. But those with special certificates can allow their applications to do anything." < 1414128258 802484 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be inaccurate statement or me misinterpreting it < 1414128285 264783 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes it sound like the APIs are only restricted by the review process, not OS level functionality < 1414128811 435250 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414128838 490274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414128855 22482 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414129308 443571 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414129460 514546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1414129521 762685 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414130437 964754 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414130455 868683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414130457 24272 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414130633 915030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1414130650 261331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414130801 621521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: iOS has pretty heavy sandboxing and security < 1414130817 662517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some official pdfs about it you can find < 1414130826 11678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course they will always paint the rosiest picture they can) < 1414130833 460940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it's definitely not "everything runs in ring 0") < 1414130853 540689 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, ok < 1414130971 194095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps why are you trusting computerworld.com on technical operating system details < 1414130978 507024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, really. < 1414131602 596468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414131610 598665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414131765 108511 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Cydia have separate sections for sandboxed and non-sandboxed apps? < 1414132967 786921 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-174-76-63.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1414133255 918430 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133256 71778 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133256 485716 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133256 886996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133257 40260 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133257 40400 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133257 913555 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133258 209898 :visy_!~visy@ec2-23-23-221-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133258 383510 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133258 537027 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133258 690608 :brandons1!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133258 940812 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133259 285685 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414133259 439176 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414134028 732905 :brandons1!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134028 886285 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134028 886449 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134028 886517 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134028 886579 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134028 886641 :visy_!~visy@ec2-23-23-221-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134028 886702 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134028 886763 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134233 832060 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1414134640 396994 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134640 608998 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134640 609144 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134640 609211 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134640 609273 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1414134640 609337 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135073 435113 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1414135223 851834 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135514 552052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1414135738 761184 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135738 914475 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135739 295906 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135739 694756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135739 847947 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135739 848077 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135740 716538 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135740 965259 :visy_!~visy@ec2-23-23-221-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135741 118716 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135741 285365 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135741 460194 :brandons1!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135741 709273 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135742 26743 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414135944 468575 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135944 639903 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135944 640031 :brandons1!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135944 640096 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135944 640162 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135944 640224 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135944 640284 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135944 640347 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1414135944 640408 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1414136053 109660 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414136205 465323 :brandons1!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414136205 665843 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414136206 13932 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414136251 549445 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1414136251 802055 :visy_!~visy@ec2-23-23-221-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414136251 802182 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414136251 802250 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414136379 263654 :brandons1!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414136405 449033 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1414136405 658995 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1414137283 115679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: weboflies' syscall code is so horrific < 1414137303 26188 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: weboflies is almost entirely syscall code < 1414137313 189760 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this isn't meant to contradict /or/ support what you're saying) < 1414137350 585290 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the whole thing where I wind back the IP a fixed number of bytes, the Linux ABI for 86 actually specifically guarantees that that will work no matter what the syscall implementation used < 1414137354 730760 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* x86 < 1414137427 832734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1414137445 911378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably read KDGKBENT's source to find out what the arguments and return even are < 1414137573 596523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is weboflies? < 1414138877 368676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: heh, does ioctl_test have to be ran on an actual VT? < 1414138887 708486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I need qemu < 1414138894 694821 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: control-alt-f1? < 1414139170 666228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: well, it's a VM < 1414139176 970168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can log into the VM's console < 1414139201 550217 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, the problem is that the VM doesn't allow you to send control-alt-F1? < 1414139212 695629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just that I access it through ssh < 1414139214 399976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's more work :p < 1414139219 225999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normally) < 1414139515 397772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have missed what was going on, but it sounds hacky. < 1414139521 740393 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-efruoygjcppsfjhm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1414139707 538393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1414139818 803367 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414139836 994272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, are you building something in particular, or just playing around? < 1414139939 780947 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414139955 880363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he asked for weboflies source for some unknown reason < 1414139961 565369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is now presumably trying to get it to work < 1414139962 137398 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1414139995 609625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown but nefarious reason. < 1414140214 44501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had reproducible/deterministic stuff on the mind lately. < 1414140218 895904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminded me of weboflies. < 1414140223 260039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I felt like reading it again. < 1414140417 423878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there any way to attach an actual tty to a weboflies program? so you don't have to send everything keys entirely from the debug menu < 1414140429 248058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but time is frozen between keypresess, while it's waiting, or such) < 1414140434 378052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, maybe I'll try and patch it in (badly) < 1414140453 761588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was planning for that to be a wrapper around weboflies, eventually < 1414140529 829825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1414140714 164020 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't seem to mentally parse that as web-of-lies instead of web-o'-flies. < 1414140733 421475 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we-bo'-flies? < 1414140755 51545 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fruit flies and webo flies. < 1414140766 313225 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh look Scala's fixity rules are simpler than Haskells < 1414140903 890025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nobody can < 1414143230 823437 :impomatic_!~digital_w@92.77.125.91.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414143933 628915 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala for syntax doesn't assume >>= < 1414144404 107629 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144404 611892 :heroux!~heroux@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144404 786008 :applybot!~applybot@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144404 960671 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144405 537504 :heroux_!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl NICK :heroux < 1414144419 228887 :heroux!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl NICK :14WAADDIM < 1414144430 253743 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144430 427443 :heroux!~heroux@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144430 427570 :applybot!~applybot@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144430 427635 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144522 730710 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144523 510595 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144567 109796 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144567 284371 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144695 474791 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144695 648957 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144695 649085 :viznut_!viznut@lowfidelity.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144696 111164 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144696 286821 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144696 567272 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144697 128112 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-50defd-78.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144697 302478 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144697 302604 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144697 302670 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414144740 121053 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295402 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295543 :viznut_!viznut@lowfidelity.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295611 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295676 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295741 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295806 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-50defd-78.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295869 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295934 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1414144740 295998 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1414145002 290369 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414145043 456760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414145058 337965 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414145841 654358 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414148420 528665 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40661&oldid=40659 5* 03Rdebath 5* (-131) 10Undo revision 40659 not very notable yet (no firsts), by [[Special:Contributions/204.154.122.227|204.154.122.227]] ([[User talk:204.154.122.227|talk]]) < 1414148629 528780 :impomatic_!~digital_w@92.77.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1414148665 732431 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: WHETTING CHICKEN < 1414150139 320553 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414150142 124108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414150597 685146 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414151214 289735 :InputUsername!~InputUser@ip54522415.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1414151334 470841 :InputUsername!~InputUser@ip54522415.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl QUIT :Client Quit < 1414151477 409780 :InputUsername!~InputUser@ip54522415.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1414151519 39269 :InputUsername!~InputUser@ip54522415.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl PART :#esoteric < 1414151584 601071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414151595 667157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414151703 58469 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1414151741 82587 :scounder!~scounder@phroa.lost.the.game.rikairchy.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414152130 699166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1414152143 297956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414153062 698128 :impomatic_!~digital_w@92.77.125.91.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414153221 144593 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414153235 376038 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TomPN 5* 10New user account < 1414153298 319908 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40662 5* 03TomPN 5* (+4016) 10Musical notes is an esoteric programming language invented by Tom Price-Nicholson in 2014. < 1414153382 327314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1414153406 561768 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40663&oldid=39452 5* 03TomPN 5* (+58) 10 < 1414153567 585730 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40664&oldid=40642 5* 03TomPN 5* (+20) 10 < 1414153605 515261 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40665&oldid=40662 5* 03TomPN 5* (-2) 10 < 1414153664 876142 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40666&oldid=40665 5* 03TomPN 5* (-11) 10/* Syntax */ < 1414153676 555286 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40667&oldid=40666 5* 03TomPN 5* (-1) 10/* = Notes */ < 1414153740 125588 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40668&oldid=40667 5* 03TomPN 5* (+16) 10/* Line functions */ < 1414154081 918992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1414154098 182520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Editing the Main Page like that seems rather unconventional. < 1414154199 394246 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...especially for a brainfuck derivative... < 1414154216 806502 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical-X14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40669&oldid=35550 5* 03TomPN 5* (+67) 10 < 1414154255 371908 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40670&oldid=40663 5* 03Ais523 5* (-58) 10Undo revision 40663 by [[Special:Contributions/TomPN|TomPN]] ([[User talk:TomPN|talk]]): I don't think putting new esolangs on the Main Page like that is a good way to go about things < 1414154284 779845 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Choon14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40671&oldid=13383 5* 03TomPN 5* (+60) 10 < 1414154286 300004 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could sensibly put a link to newpages on the main page, but recentchanges is probably better for the purpose given the nature of Esolang < 1414154316 678123 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wow is that page underlinked < 1414154335 69579 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to put {{wikify}} on it but that template doesn't exist on Esolang (and doesn't exist on Wikipedia either nowadays) < 1414154351 774934 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Velato14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40672&oldid=33629 5* 03TomPN 5* (+65) 10 < 1414154367 45412 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let oerjan shout at the author, oerjan's good at shouting < 1414154404 616559 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Timesig14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40673&oldid=16288 5* 03TomPN 5* (+65) 10 < 1414154416 995756 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm somewhat dubious about putting extra "see also" sections to each and every music-themed language, but at least it's not Main Page. < 1414154428 978492 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdebath14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40674&oldid=40586 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+1441) 10/* Performance Matrix */ < 1414154439 616842 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think adding links to and from Velato, etc., is reasonable < 1414154447 951046 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding them only one way is pretty like self-promotion, though < 1414154473 672271 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Bitoven14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40675&oldid=40516 5* 03TomPN 5* (+59) 10 < 1414154483 496947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category:Musical or something could exist, along the other "source format" ones. < 1414154488 392381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't realized there's this many. < 1414154529 971228 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:TomPN14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40676 5* 03Ais523 5* (+495) 10/* Musical esolangs */ new section < 1414154536 958694 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, yes < 1414154543 781532 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is starting to look like a good category option < 1414154657 807780 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40677&oldid=39198 5* 03Ais523 5* (+573) 10/* Musical esolangs */ new section < 1414154715 645689 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:TomPN14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40678&oldid=40676 5* 03Ais523 5* (+383) 10actually, probably this should be a category < 1414154731 23092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This design feature [of allowing the Chunnel to be flooded on demand] did not override the concerns of both nations' military leaders, and other concerns about hordes of undesirable tourists who would disrupt English habits of living." < 1414154743 288517 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least Esolang still has the Orange Bar Of Doom < 1414154748 785019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess drowning would have been a little too harsh even for tourists. < 1414154762 297098 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40679&oldid=40668 5* 03TomPN 5* (+115) 10 < 1414154885 95886 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40680&oldid=40677 5* 03TomPN 5* (+71) 10 < 1414155047 985384 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40681&oldid=40679 5* 03Ais523 5* (+2) 10style edits, typo fixes, and make this a little less tragically underlinked; move the "please create an interpreter" request to [[Category:Unimplemented]] which mostly serves that purpose < 1414155050 617153 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40682&oldid=40681 5* 03TomPN 5* (+13) 10/* Staff and ledger lines */ < 1414155080 411143 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40683&oldid=40682 5* 03TomPN 5* (-12) 10/* Staff and ledger lines */ < 1414155139 657756 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40684&oldid=40683 5* 03Ais523 5* (-204) 10/* A note from the author */ move copyright note to the talkpage, it's about the article rather than being about the language < 1414155140 79000 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Musical notes14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40685 5* 03Ais523 5* (+394) 10move copyright note to the talkpage, it's about the article rather than being about the language < 1414155163 300416 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many of BF's categories do we put on BF derivatives? < 1414155217 471862 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, it's sub-TC < 1414155227 845658 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all loops have a fixed number of iterations < 1414155242 156508 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we need Phantom_Hoover for this one < 1414155259 901139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, at least you can say it's different from BF. < 1414155292 407246 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement, which one? < 1414155303 547152 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Musical_notes < 1414155413 763561 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40686&oldid=40684 5* 03Ais523 5* (+479) 10computational class; it bothers me how often people manage to make BF sub-TC by removing useful loops from it < 1414155458 374744 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40687&oldid=40686 5* 03Ais523 5* (+0) 10/* Computational class */ fix cat names < 1414155478 607199 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, loops can't be nested /either/? < 1414155492 59789 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say that it was the .,<>+-()* fragment of BF < 1414155493 933187 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't even that < 1414155517 905539 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nowhere near as bad as ESME, but I find it rather more offensive < 1414155563 985370 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no accidentals rather limits the /musical/ possibilities < 1414156044 64661 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40688&oldid=40687 5* 03TomPN 5* (+120) 10 < 1414156077 594369 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is going on < 1414156082 529592 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a lot of edits < 1414156084 770114 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: see the page that's been edited a lot recently < 1414156088 932962 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, recent changes < 1414156095 985624 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: you need a high tolerance for awful BF derivatives < 1414156096 314996 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost like the wiki is popular again < 1414156116 629133 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40689&oldid=40688 5* 03TomPN 5* (-408) 10/* Computational class */ < 1414156181 894004 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm still remembering the way that C-INTERCAL has entirely different semantics for ¥ depending on whether it's encoded in UTF-8 or Latin-1 < 1414156196 579381 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this actually does the right thing in all known existing cases < 1414156392 756876 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ¥ even supposed to do again < 1414156405 279423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it a replacement for the bookworm character < 1414156446 69121 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it sort of looks like that < 1414156516 88206 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bookworm character in CLC-INTERCAL (thus unary exclusive or), and a currency symbol in C-INTERCAL (thus mingle) < 1414156524 999631 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which use latin-1 and utf-8 encoding respectively < 1414156540 85624 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1414156543 449740 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1414156546 294465 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so C-INTERCAL just uses the CLC-INTERCAL interpretation if the input happens to be latin-1 < 1414156552 364808 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they use the same character for two different purpose? < 1414156558 354585 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the bookworm encoded then? < 1414156559 454036 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this is INTERCAL < 1414156565 454097 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah < 1414156572 31133 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C-INTERCAL bookworm is normally ?, although V backspace - is accepted < 1414156592 408535 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there some fancy unicode character equated with bookworm? < 1414156620 645657 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a proposal to add it a new unicode character for it? < 1414156626 113857 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an upside-down A might or might not be permitted, I'm not sure < 1414156635 200923 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although obviously that's not quite identical to a bookworm < 1414156757 477520 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wolzirigebjvzila JOIN :#esoteric < 1414156973 413397 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's ⊻ which some crazy people use as a sign for 'xor', and ⊽ which is used in APL for 'nor', and I think there's a nabla with either minus or tilde through it, but I don't know of an exact match < 1414156981 131372 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there isn't, one should be added to unicode < 1414157011 151228 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, TomPN deleted my section about the computational class < 1414157022 444231 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to edit war, because that would be really stupid < 1414157033 597804 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could someone else make a decision about whether it should be included or not? < 1414157061 971168 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas? quintopia? fizzie? < 1414157088 745980 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1414157107 682865 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414157194 912727 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, elliott's online and probably has the right opinion about this < 1414157211 265410 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time I've come across what is probably a POV pusher on Esolang < 1414157265 52925 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... < 1414157280 804644 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this suppsoed to be some strange brainfuck variant described by someone who doesn't understand what he writes? < 1414157285 936545 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still trying to interpret the description < 1414157291 641830 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, and someone who deleted my section on the computational class < 1414157303 64573 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it made it clear how useless the language was < 1414157338 696320 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: maybe you shouldn't care too much about that... there's already lots of useless esolangs out there < 1414157365 601706 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about the esolang being useless, that much (well, this one's offensively useless, but…) < 1414157366 993745 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could be a work in progress or something < 1414157385 203369 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care about the user actively making the page worse by deleting information about the language from it < 1414157396 313319 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing the computational class is often interesting with these languages < 1414157409 890699 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't want to get into a revert war by myself < 1414157415 638876 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1414157420 536387 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like you to look at the revert of my edit, and unrevert it if you agree < 1414157429 275129 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to understand the description first, as much as it's possible < 1414157434 670270 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1414157440 910059 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very clear description < 1414157454 563260 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, though, it's the subset of BF with <>+-., and ()* from BF Joust, only the ()* doesn't nest < 1414157469 253167 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and you can RLE the <>+- with a separate mechanism from the ()* < 1414157608 458246 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I thought editing the link to the language onto the /Main Page/ of all pages was a bit much, but I just reverted that, rather than yelling < 1414157704 910271 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... is this description tries to call bf's data tape an “instruction tape”? < 1414157745 693228 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes it does < 1414157749 316838 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably fix that < 1414157759 332037 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I could, I guess < 1414157761 916261 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1414157762 588165 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1414157790 746577 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's trying to mean that the data tape is the same as the number parts (the tenor) of the instruction tape, and is mutable, < 1414157810 621822 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so those numbers can be changed by the program and modify how instructions work? < 1414157823 349296 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems strange, and is probably not very workable, but still < 1414157836 281789 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's a reason it's called that < 1414157850 512754 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm probably just overthinking this < 1414157850 753878 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it describes it as a tape like in BF < 1414157866 719338 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have a mental bias towards believing that the language can't possibly be that bad < 1414157879 796818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok wait, there's another part I don't understand < 1414157890 182701 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :first he says “The pitch of the note determines its function, while the value of the note (crotchet, minim etc.) determines how many times the function occurs.” < 1414157892 794909 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a version of BF where each command had a repeat count based on the position of the matching tape element would actually be interesting < 1414157902 885615 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he talks about the notes in the tenor determining how many times the instruction occurs, or something < 1414157907 791192 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right, I just realised that contradicted the entirety of the rest of the page < 1414157918 573663 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1414157954 239874 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if we say it's a work in progress because it's been created today, and wait for the author to fix the description < 1414157958 58816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should write him a msesage < 1414157962 467815 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TomPN: can you hear us here? < 1414157962 670529 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is veering dangerously close into [[Category:Shameful]] territory < 1414157970 908105 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I've already written two on the talk page, about other things < 1414157985 572159 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I consider linking to your language from the Main Page an indication that you consider it finished < 1414158024 538148 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :linking from the main page? < 1414158037 930286 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. < 1414158057 508894 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1414158059 366099 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks bad < 1414158191 452370 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that user seems seriously confused < 1414158257 594460 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, *of course* on can cheat on tetration. < 1414158277 898574 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to look at Esme again just to relax < 1414158289 530460 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1414158315 610868 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: ugh < 1414158317 686100 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414158580 182462 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for subjecting you to this < 1414158589 668274 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1414158591 59292 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably just have gotten into the edit war < 1414158596 365242 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then blocked for 3RR < 1414158612 909898 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, no problem < 1414158629 114516 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen crazier users. < 1414158651 243781 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this one can just be reverted on other pages and left alone on that one page about that “language” < 1414158658 803806 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that at Wikipedia would be mindbogglingly frowned on even though it doesn't violate the letter of any objective rules < 1414158667 265377 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1414158670 690785 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is not wikipedia < 1414158675 367720 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1414158682 278475 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd still be incredible admin rougeness, thoguh < 1414158690 765440 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he gets bored and leaves, we can just delete the page after two weeks < 1414158696 375968 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideal situation would be if they got reverted four times by four different users < 1414158701 406792 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd prefer the page to exist but be accurate < 1414158722 513137 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could we just try to tell him that his description is nonsense and please try to make it clearer? < 1414158746 303478 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, that might work < 1414158753 679885 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more diplomatic language would be nice unless you were really annoyed < 1414158766 170049 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tell him the three main reasons why it's unclear (the loop insns; tenor vs note length; the "instruction tape") < 1414158798 747801 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop insns are pretty clear to me < 1414158876 128039 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they're not, not if it claims to be a bf variant and has "([)" there. if they're useless loop structions, they at least need a note. < 1414158881 709950 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1414158888 366530 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"loops cannot be nested." just like that? < 1414158896 28584 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it doesn't even matter how they're controlled, right? < 1414158900 297947 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice that < 1414158910 175604 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could do < 1414158934 801183 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no control is much more useless than unnested loops < 1414158935 416537 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with more powerful instructions, sure. in brainfuck, I think it doesn't. or does it? < 1414158939 125246 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1414158942 734729 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if + 1 while is TC < 1414158955 287852 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1414158959 765634 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in bf though < 1414158973 654031 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otherwise you don't even need if) < 1414158988 684460 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lack of if is the missing part here < 1414158997 164866 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yap < 1414159063 599341 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, anyway, someone should compose an, um, polite message to this user asking to clarify < 1414159260 158443 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414159439 693575 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1414159443 490156 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I missed that the loops amount the plain repetition. < 1414159449 268088 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how awful. < 1414159666 162493 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414159691 498314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that CC section would make them harder to miss < 1414159796 639593 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I read < 1414159806 855090 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a diff. sigh.) < 1414159839 995492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer it if someone not-me either reinstated it, or said it shouldn't be reinstated < 1414159852 853755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't like to edit war without extra opinions < 1414159873 427992 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an IP address, I don't think me doing it would help :P < 1414160193 215266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should, at least < 1414160195 246621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you're not me < 1414160206 298995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other admins could also verify that < 1414160230 921876 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um, register? < 1414160472 407560 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I say, let's not revert that into the article, at least not verbatim, instead write to the author to ask for clarification < 1414160478 958858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right < 1414160489 26027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to write the message? < 1414160500 378381 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh. maybe... < 1414160502 709898 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'll write one < 1414160537 791610 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF928A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1414160680 366754 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40690&oldid=40689 5* 03TomPN 5* (+476) 10 < 1414160690 572369 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, he's still here, great < 1414160698 986675 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to catch him < 1414160780 620368 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, it's getting weirder < 1414160851 457516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they removed the unusable for programming < 1414160857 211871 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait < 1414160860 302163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still is, because it cannot add two user input values to each other < 1414160890 234485 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could we find some category name that sounds more scientific than "unsuitable for programming"? because I could call any of those languages that require a double-exponential time to do anything "unsuitable for programming". or I could even call COBOL that. < 1414160924 875313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unusable", not "unsuitable" < 1414160934 210386 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way < 1414160938 835341 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40691&oldid=40690 5* 03TomPN 5* (+1) 10/* Example program */ < 1414160983 960684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basically analogous to the "minsky machine with only one counter" situation < 1414160989 924762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has multiple tape elements, but you can't read any of them < 1414160995 377458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only add and subtract constants < 1414161014 442854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it'd be pretty funny to write a new computational class section explaining that it /still/ isn't usable, and why < 1414161045 893742 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I still don't understand the semantics, so I'm just trying to ask about that in a message I'm writing < 1414161060 434410 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can figure out how to insult the language and/or the author's intelligence later < 1414161071 566450 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, no kidding, we're doing that already here < 1414161247 43865 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Musical notes program performs a predetermined sequence of operations and terminates. < 1414161263 166678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I find figuring out computational class interesting < 1414161267 146005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every page should have a section about it < 1414161273 856225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or the "unknown" cat) < 1414161282 836095 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:TomPN14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40692&oldid=40678 5* 03B jonas 5* (+1013) 10/* == Please clarify Mudaical notes */ new section < 1414161288 891115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, it is known, but the author's reverting attempts to mention it < 1414161289 843847 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the "computational class" term may not be applicable ;-) < 1414161299 233462 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :As there is no computation going on. < 1414161301 181465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unusable"'s a class, right? < 1414161324 96333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least this whole thing has given me /two/ esolang ideas < 1414161341 886707 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Musical notes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40693&oldid=40685 5* 03B jonas 5* (+208) 10/* Unclear description */ new section < 1414161367 512197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is BF where the tape gives repeat counts for the corresponding program elements, and this is the only way to do conditionals (note: obviously, the tape must be bignum for this to have any chance of not being trivially sub-TC) < 1414161376 8852 :augur!~augur@ip-64-134-240-197.public.wayport.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414161397 712175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other is a language designed to start from the specification of BF on the wiki, and change the minimum number of words to make an entirely different language < 1414161433 338538 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the first idea should give you the same power as primitve recursion. < 1414161439 587433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defined as "any translation from that language to or from BF would more likely be via other languages than direct") < 1414161442 168458 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e., loop programs) < 1414161449 34763 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that example program in that article is in a nonportable key signiture whose behaviour the standard doesn't describe. < 1414161482 571117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hmm, that's one of the necessary requirements to be Esme, I think < 1414161495 59360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. "the example given doesn't fit the defined syntax for the language") < 1414161496 233220 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the third is to Artificial Evolution on Goat Napper to teach him new tricks < 1414161516 448540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's an M:tG reference, right? < 1414161531 97816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1414161538 924919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume Artificial Evolution lets you rewrite "Goat" to any creature type, and thus gain control of any creature but The Nameless One? < 1414161574 644216 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes -- or alternately it lets you rewrite Goblin or Rogue which is booring < 1414161604 639915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Conspiracy, to make everything goats? < 1414161607 687830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems more repeatable < 1414161621 614471 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Shields of Velis Vel is much simpler < 1414161631 45479 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conspiracy is sort of heavy < 1414161660 822244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's permanent < 1414161669 136915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SoVV only lasts for a turn < 1414161694 145884 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Amoeboid Changeling or Blades of Velis Vel (that one helps because you're going to attack with the goat) or Wings of Velis Vel < 1414161718 219086 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, Conspiracy might work too < 1414162068 889970 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow I'm not sure just BF with the data tape overlapping with repetition counts could work. would you have enough time to manipulate the repeat counts? < 1414162081 890851 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe it's possible < 1414162084 537673 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1414162352 412095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm not sure either, that's why it's interesing < 1414162370 528976 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can repeat < and > too, not only [] right? < 1414162412 708616 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could use < > sort of like you use fixed address instructions as indexed instructions by writing to their code < 1414162439 918079 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can like increment and decrement the count on all such instructions to move a virtual head < 1414162464 236218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1414162465 159221 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, might be as powerful as a multi-taped turing machine then < 1414162473 590757 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the semantics of [] in first place then? < 1414162488 618062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we don't have [], but the entire program is in a loop < 1414162493 676560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might still be TC < 1414162500 582523 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1414162519 815584 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems dangerous < 1414162533 602628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dangerous"? < 1414162547 185000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :difficult to program < 1414162562 748757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can figure out how to program in it immediately < 1414162567 685255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not normally a very good esolang < 1414162571 510692 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1414162576 652994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, a good esolang changes the way you think < 1414162586 7584 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it so does < 1414162594 830230 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I prefer good non-eso langs that do that < 1414162610 23542 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or good libraries in non-eso langs < 1414162648 935762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the mindbending ideas were pretty eso before they became mainstream < 1414162661 733814 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1414162665 482801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Prolog is /still/ an esolang < 1414162669 384261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fits most definitions < 1414162685 452875 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but prolog at least has an easily programmable subset < 1414162721 605324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, trying to figure out how to do something in Prolog is far from obvious < 1414162739 692632 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can translate lambda expressions and ordinary non-mutable fixed-size cells to prolog in a mostly straightforward way < 1414162750 66658 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a compiler) < 1414162765 144127 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's just two tricks you need to know, and one of those is really only needed for debugging) < 1414162785 773787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Prolog is basically like lambda calculus if you have call and univ < 1414162797 998631 :prooftechnique!~NihilistD@65-183-137-193-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414162847 899339 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say if you have call and ... whatever is that thing that copies a structure replacing variables with fresh ones, let me look it up < 1414162871 701163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy_term, IIRC < 1414162917 207386 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, copy_term or fd_copy_term < 1414162921 363861 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1414163038 306248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you use gprolog too? < 1414163056 218598 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really use any prolog, because I don't like the language < 1414163066 178800 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I ran at least sicstus and gprolog < 1414163610 214736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and swi prolog too I think < 1414163615 218969 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew there was three < 1414163633 617831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swi's the most popular, as far as I know < 1414164609 532063 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414164627 19947 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1414164854 523132 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414164854 676420 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1414165135 586138 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1414165308 898374 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414165485 588921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWI was the Prolog of choice on our Prolog course. < 1414165575 322623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gprolog has a built-in integer sat solver, which is nice < 1414165826 737280 :prooftechnique!~NihilistD@65-183-137-193-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414166777 146164 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you used that solver? < 1414166784 481960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: most definitely < 1414166800 527293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a tendency to blow up and take forever on complex input, but be very good on moderately simple input < 1414166806 86949 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you run it if i give you a simple problem? < 1414166855 42682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try < 1414166866 932326 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about 3 guys selling chickens < 1414166871 896536 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohmygodmyeyeshelp! http://www.gprolog.org/manual/gprolog.html < 1414166895 161088 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A has 10 chickens, B has 16, and C has 26 < 1414166898 265864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ugh, I've been using the PDF < 1414166914 18593 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: lol < 1414166920 760635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: go on, that's a pretty easy problem so far < 1414166929 636180 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sell some in the morning at price x/u, and some in the afternoon at y/u < 1414166953 357885 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of they day, they sold all chickens and each made 35u < 1414166970 960169 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: we have 0<=a<=10, etc. < 1414166973 736874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x and y are integers? < 1414166984 498463 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ax+(10-a)y=35u etc... < 1414166992 403785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1414166999 903928 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why i added u < 1414167018 569938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the problem's parametric on u < 1414167025 28568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it has a solution, it has a solution with u=1 < 1414167027 977281 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :u is just another integer < 1414167039 818358 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1414167055 681630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: you said "each made 35u", did you mean "each made 35"? < 1414167059 988374 :password2!~password@197.76.179.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414167081 520456 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make 35$ selling at non-integer prices of x and y $ < 1414167084 762460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this seems like the sort of problem the sat solver would be bad on, because u is unbounded < 1414167098 608951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: right, in that case they each made 35, rather than each making 35u < 1414167101 397101 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i need to multiply by some u to make prices integer < 1414167123 58984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is linear programming, not integer programming < 1414167134 859016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me enter it and see what happens, I doubt it'll be solved in a reasonable time though < 1414167154 787919 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, b and c are integers < 1414167155 141369 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you divide by u, the equation is a*x/u+(10-a)*y/u=35 < 1414167165 80953 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allows the fractional dollar prices < 1414167197 825075 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now all of a,b,c,x,y,u are integer < 1414167364 442432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: it says that one solution is a=b=c=x=y=u=0 < 1414167367 86229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is correct < 1414167372 606449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me demand that u is positive :-) < 1414167418 712572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's warning that it's discarding potential solutions due to running out of internal storage < 1414167435 417290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saying it can't find any < 1414167461 804754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION increases the maximum space < 1414167536 31871 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprisingly, yices is complaining that it's not a linear problem. < 1414167594 752324 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not a particularly big problem:-) < 1414167609 455393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: yes, but it's the sort of problem gprolog is bad at < 1414167619 424338 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think SAT solvers are very good at diophantine problems < 1414167634 790648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently pegging my CPU < 1414167649 193935 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort is that? "small set of linear equations on integer vars" ? < 1414167654 673057 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to summarize, 35u = (x-y)(a+b+c) + 52y, 0<=a<=10, 0<=b<=16, 0<=c<=26, u>0, over the integers? < 1414167670 357719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: it likes additions and subtractions much better than multiplications and divisions < 1414167675 433378 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can restrict it to a+7 <= b <= c-11 < 1414167686 865184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, adding additional restrictions rarely actually seems to help < 1414167692 595186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try that, though < 1414167700 710372 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: on paper I'd just turn a+b+c into a single variable. < 1414167730 785476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, isn't obviously helping < 1414167749 999852 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: wait, why can you assume that restriction? < 1414167776 238977 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because A will need to sell more at the higher price y < 1414167780 682114 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add x < y < 1414167791 269130 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1414167793 413938 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"each" < 1414167795 257935 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1414167822 426197 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 10-a > 16-b < 1414167914 592780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still running, hasn't got past U=1 yet < 1414167922 753757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to give up < 1414167953 476033 :reventlov!~reventlov@unaffiliated/reventlov JOIN :#esoteric < 1414167988 935915 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so much for gprolog:( < 1414168009 698159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling it's only good in very specific circumstances < 1414168042 518850 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gprolog: for all your solving needs that dont include chickens < 1414168187 877267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: as I said earlier, I failed to get it to work with my Bridge AI < 1414168198 542063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I got it doing INTERCAL reverse assignments < 1414168226 593957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely enough, my addition took four minutes despite all the selects and mingles optimizing out < 1414168352 163088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think our constrained logic programming course used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECLiPSe or something. < 1414168362 510881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remember it was very Prology. < 1414168394 340068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414168402 106746 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414168433 410139 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nice. Logical context is inconsistent. Use (reset) to reset. < 1414168456 243171 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's with some pen&paper preparation. < 1414168536 957594 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a convenient mistake. < 1414168622 803321 :TieSoul_!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414168674 765800 :TieSoul__!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414168717 739176 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1414168892 722016 :TieSoul_!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1414169038 965763 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let me try solve chickens with a Haskell one-liner < 1414169042 642842 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414169092 10025 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c) | b<-[7..15],a<-[0..b-7],c<-[b+11..26],(b-a)*(16*c-26*b)==(c-b)*(10*b-16*a)] < 1414169093 787197 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0,9,24),(1,10,25),(2,11,26)] < 1414169305 852305 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c) | a > b && 5*a+3*c == 8*b] < 1414169307 190464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1414169318 701605 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1414169336 819980 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c) | a<-[0..10], b<-[0..16], c<-[0..26], a > b, 5*a+3*c == 8*b] < 1414169338 466102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(8,5,0),(9,6,1),(10,7,2)] < 1414169351 658426 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c) | a<-[0..10], b<-[0..16], c<-[0..26], a < b, 5*a+3*c == 8*b] < 1414169353 212268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0,3,8),(0,6,16),(0,9,24),(1,4,9),(1,7,17),(1,10,25),(2,5,10),(2,8,18),(2,1... < 1414169379 731812 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm. < 1414169402 796934 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will result in some negative prices, I guess. < 1414169407 538267 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, when i show the prices as well, the lower one is negative:( < 1414169411 878152 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former list is dual to yours < 1414169481 325915 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c,(35*(6+a-b))%(10*b-16*a),(35*(b-a))%(10*b-16*a)) | b<-[7..15],a<-[0..b-7],c<-[b+11..26],(b-a)*(16*c-26*b)==(c-b)*(10*b-16*a)] < 1414169482 868971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0,9,24,(-7) % 6,7 % 2),(1,10,25,(-5) % 4,15 % 4),(2,11,26,(-35) % 26,105 %... < 1414169498 126078 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07CHIQRSX9+14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40694&oldid=32999 5* 0367.78.57.11 5* (+83) 10 < 1414169511 268428 :paul2520!~pi@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's chickens? < 1414169527 888459 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use more scrollback < 1414169549 440594 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the problem that is solved by the above code < 1414169609 806703 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c,x,y,10*y+a*(x-y),16*y+b*(x-y),26*y+c*(x-y)) | a<-[0..10], b<-[0..16], c<-[0..26], a > b, 5*a+3*c == 8*b, let y = 5*(a-b), let x = y+30] < 1414169611 293145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(8,5,0,45,15,390,390,390),(9,6,1,45,15,420,420,420),(10,7,2,45,15,450,450,4... < 1414169616 256801 :paul2520!~pi@unaffiliated/paul2520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an explanation of the problem? I got that... < 1414169629 790117 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: no negative prices. < 1414169666 153371 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c) | a<-[0..10], b<-[0..16], c<-[0..26], 5*a+3*c == 8*b, let y = 5*(a-b), let x = y+30, x*y > 0] < 1414169667 722209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0,9,24),(1,10,25),(2,11,26),(8,5,0),(9,6,1),(10,7,2)] < 1414169946 126765 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see my error < 1414169960 996109 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a problem that requires some symbolic computation; the usual bit-blasting and linear arithmetic based approaches will not do well. < 1414169963 243248 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should allow 10-a = 16-b < 1414169979 156863 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A can seel same number as B at higher price < 1414169991 3067 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make lower price 0 (give chickens away) < 1414170001 47512 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c) | a<-[0..10], b<-[0..16], c<-[0..26], 5*a+3*c == 8*b, let y = 5*(a-b), let x = y+30, x*y >= 0] < 1414170004 811772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0,0,0),(0,6,16),(0,9,24),(1,1,1),(1,7,17),(1,10,25),(2,2,2),(2,8,18),(2,11... < 1414170016 647881 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length [(a,b,c) | a<-[0..10], b<-[0..16], c<-[0..26], 5*a+3*c == 8*b, let y = 5*(a-b), let x = y+30, x*y >= 0] < 1414170018 959555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 28 < 1414170025 614716 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length [(a,b,c) | a<-[0..10], b<-[0..16], c<-[0..26], 5*a+3*c == 8*b, let y = 5*(a-b), let x = y+30] < 1414170027 651201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 39 < 1414170036 934506 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF928A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1414170058 383043 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 11 solutions with negative prices, and 22 where the lower price is 0, and 6 "proper" ones. < 1414170092 332913 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1414170099 817273 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we can assume that the intended solution doesn't allow a=0 or a=10, because then A would not sell any chickens in the morning or in the afternoon. < 1414170222 959318 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but deriving 5*(a-b) = 3*(b-c) (if u != 0), which lies at the heart of the problem, is beyond automatic tools, I think. < 1414170259 483363 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, I was doing computer hardware stuff yesterday. trivial computer hardware stuff of course, because I don't dare touching anything more serious. < 1414170307 143090 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided that the hard disks in my home computer might not like the heat they get because they're placed without gaps, so I ordered a metal rail dohickey to let me insert one hard disk in a 5 inch wide cd drive slot, < 1414170321 544410 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I do that, I'll be able to place all hard disks so that there's a slot high gap above each < 1414170537 767426 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a proper solution, int-e ? < 1414170677 232690 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-127-68-184.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1414170910 2965 :augur!~augur@ip-64-134-240-197.public.wayport.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1414170949 5703 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: those with positive prices. < 1414171119 533115 :TieSoul__!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 NICK :TieSoul < 1414171143 104945 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414171273 707047 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i had a signb error < 1414171344 337 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1414171459 714250 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c,(35*(6+a-b))%(16*a-10*b),(35*(b-a))%(10*b-16*a)) | b<-[7..15],a<-[0..b-7],c<-[b+11..26],(b-a)*(16*c-26*b)==(c-b)*(10*b-16*a)] < 1414171461 118652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0,9,24,7 % 6,7 % 2),(1,10,25,5 % 4,15 % 4),(2,11,26,35 % 26,105 % 26)] < 1414171485 634255 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the 2nd of these 3 has prices in while number of pennies... < 1414171501 162117 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whole < 1414172000 319161 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414172079 588292 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1414172254 196921 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one test if a Data.Ratio Int is an integer? < 1414172275 58712 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, lemme ask in #haskell < 1414172305 571347 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i can use denominator function < 1414173008 14817 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1414173009 486881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : not an expression: ‘’ < 1414173009 640315 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :print [(a,b,c,x,y) | b<-[7..15], a<-[0..b-7], c<-[b+11..26], < 1414173011 3523 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : let {d = 10*b-16*a; x=(b-6-a)*35%d; y=(b-a) *35%d}, < 1414173012 653304 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (b-a)*(16*c-26*b)==(c-b)*d, all ((== 0).mod 100.denominator) [x,y]] < 1414173054 543917 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> print [(a,b,c,x,y) | b<-[7..15], a<-[0..b-7], c<-[b+11..26],let {d = 10*b-16*a; x=(b-6-a)*35%d; y=(b-a) *35%d},(b-a)*(16*c-26*b)==(c-b)*d, all ((== 0).mod 100.denominator) [x,y]] < 1414173056 11061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1414173074 673124 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(a,b,c,x,y) | b<-[7..15], a<-[0..b-7], c<-[b+11..26],let {d = 10*b-16*a; x=(b-6-a)*35%d; y=(b-a) *35%d},(b-a)*(16*c-26*b)==(c-b)*d, all ((== 0).mod 100.denominator) [x,y]] < 1414173076 130268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,10,25,5 % 4,15 % 4)] < 1414173745 147270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1414173758 104132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414173873 105590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=195 "Finnish -- Absolute gibberish." < 1414173877 195394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So rude. < 1414174355 958863 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute cats though < 1414174665 776108 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't 'miau' also used? < 1414175064 350627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414175070 519660 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414175502 618338 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Haley gives an explanation (not necessarily the truth) on how he convinced the repair guys < 1414176317 932082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: Yes, for the sound. I think whoever made the image was possibly going by the verb forms, which would be http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/naukua#Finnish < 1414176361 92390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's no verb for the "miau" version, you can't say "miaukuu" or anything.) < 1414176483 159073 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414176524 362802 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414176735 595308 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1414176750 457398 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: BBL < 1414176871 58990 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1414176928 161024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414176932 467401 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414177112 246545 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1414177422 215930 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1414177950 32889 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1414178250 404632 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-26-148.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1414179318 558179 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-26-148.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1414179370 538264 :password2!~password@197.76.179.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1414179980 114292 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1414180210 686546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist (966) < 1414180211 275978 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist (966): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti < 1414180267 321536 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ootses have gotten pretty frequent < 1414180457 460126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:26:34 ooh, elliott's online and probably has the right opinion about this < 1414180468 950598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I defer to you over some random dude < 1414180501 916215 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a) I don't want to edit war; b) this is dangerously close to turning into another Esme, except one that's POV-pushing for some reason < 1414180533 843113 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main reason to not just revert is that I don't want to end up on Esolang's equivalent of WP:LAME < 1414180576 477252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:39:45 however, I consider linking to your language from the Main Page an indication that you consider it finished < 1414180579 985564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg. < 1414180584 860275 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has the buy returned yet? no, he didn't < 1414180590 686363 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :summary: newbie creates a bad BF derivative that's somehow so bad it can't even read memory < 1414180599 658258 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :links it from the main page and like five different articles < 1414180620 438008 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fix the formatting, add categories, including a computational class section and unusuable for computing cat < 1414180620 743920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a too vague description (not that it's unique in that respect on the esolang wiki) < 1414180628 352282 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he removes the computational class stuff < 1414180632 715677 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives a program that adds two constants < 1414180644 592619 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as apparent "proof" that it's usable for computation < 1414180646 164470 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's supposed to add two _constants_? < 1414180646 467639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: do we even have 3rr? < 1414180653 248383 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't figure out how that would work < 1414180666 730644 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was going to invent the rule on the spot, then impose it < 1414180691 161014 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought it'd look bad if I'd also been the person doing the other three reverts needed to push the newbie to four < 1414180711 188630 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like top of the list of "ok, you haven't actually broken 3RR, but you've broken pretty much every other possible rule surrounding the circumstance < 1414180726 707641 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1414180753 855262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: just relax and remember, it's not as bad as NSQX < 1414180769 47468 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what NSQX did < 1414180774 183741 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, I'm really riled up and biased < 1414180774 711104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1414180789 788601 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing has a decent shot at worst BF derivative ever; where's Phantom_Hoover when you need him? < 1414180790 560771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should read user talk:nsqx < 1414180796 297258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an experience < 1414180805 440326 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the name < 1414180807 402095 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not what happened < 1414180819 966927 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is it < 1414180821 496762 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably better not to read it < 1414180891 266113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a UUID too small to store a geolocation? < 1414180894 39532 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it, I remember now < 1414180895 679447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it musical notes < 1414180900 150522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages-loud < 1414180900 303896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily asked 2d 8h 33m 41s ago: if AndoDaan were to ask you about z80, would you say it be like it is, but it do? < 1414180905 225258 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, the new language? < 1414180912 287654 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Musical_notes < 1414180933 739847 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I find this new language even more offensive than BF-without-[-or-] (which, sadly, has been created several times) < 1414180948 771077 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, BF-without-[-or-] really? < 1414180958 246262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way this is the worst bf deriv ever < 1414180962 826846 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow < 1414180968 185167 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they put effort into the page, though < 1414180968 859178 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to ask what it has instead of [ or ] but I think I know the answer < 1414180971 907097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :off the top of my head, bestfriends.js is worse < 1414180973 472271 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think we need a poe's law equivalent for BF derivatives < 1414180977 764122 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: fixed iteration counts < 1414180984 927312 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: I cleaned up the formatting < 1414180995 615197 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "poe's law"? < 1414181012 889063 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :poe's law says that satires are impossible to distinguish from legit fuckers < 1414181026 118187 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1414181040 943325 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't that called Mark Twain's law? < 1414181041 925991 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: basically the principle where sufficiently crazy extremists are indistinguishable from people holding intentionally crazy positions to parody them < 1414181054 497610 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something about Poe I should know to understand that naming? < 1414181072 170519 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's edgar allen < 1414181095 662573 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there was a guy named poe on usenet 'back in the day' < 1414181102 463081 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probably < 1414181110 582601 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1414181134 22261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: actually it's named after a dude on a christian forum i think < 1414181162 208132 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414181165 341021 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.christianforums.com/t1962980-6/#post17606580 fair enough < 1414181183 780975 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1414181194 576755 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1414181225 586271 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think BestFriends.js is just run-of-the-mill bad < 1414181247 723118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conservapedia.com/Poe's_law oh dear < 1414181251 561940 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but think there was some BF-in-JS that was much worse, and can't remember what it was < 1414181258 813511 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you're linking to conservapedia, of all places? < 1414181291 26349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reps: 295,212,687,427,838,720 (power: 0) < 1414181299 690174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many reps but so little power < 1414181643 85449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like an odd number. < 1414181658 497808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not odd as in odd-even, just odd. < 1414181844 341616 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's odd modulo 3! < 1414181852 436389 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all integers are odd modulo 3) < 1414181924 99306 :password2!~password@197.76.179.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414181929 839338 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"odd modulo 3" < 1414181930 768785 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1414181960 784905 :password2!~password@197.76.179.75 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1414182039 383608 :password2!~password@197.76.179.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414182413 447702 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have the nagging feeling that this article is not intended to be self-referential. < 1414182436 479413 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can't it be < 1414182451 564316 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a picture on that article of a cat walking beside the number 13 < 1414182484 151808 :MDream!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1414182501 848937 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, Poe's Law arguably applies to the whole of Conservapedia < 1414182510 448741 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, I'm pretty sure there are people who mistake it for satire < 1414182516 45018 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then contribute to what they feel is satire < 1414182538 425723 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? it applies to the whole internet < 1414182553 759029 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean as an instance < 1414182554 594085 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1414182813 579692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement, well half of the site is satire that's snuck in under the noses of the admins < 1414182856 863715 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was gonna say it sure ain't an accident < 1414183258 575668 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Strato14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40695 5* 0383.101.88.18 5* (+436) 10Created page with "'''Strato''' is a language without reserved words. The meanings reserved words normally have, are replaced by sequences of one or more punctuation marks or the relative positi..." < 1414183295 505072 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that summary, there is a decent chance this language doesn't suck < 1414183366 73355 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually, seems to be someone who doesn't realise why syntax is unimportant, but that's OK < 1414183381 66811 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 148 < 1414183381 629389 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :148) syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python < 1414183414 482463 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about piet or befunge < 1414183452 143675 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge isn't about syntax, it's about grid arrangement < 1414183460 66074 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could create, say, [[OrthINTERCAL]] or [[2L]] < 1414183555 782632 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF93FB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1414183598 955482 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacing words by punctuation does not sound like much of a change. < 1414183774 612382 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, the esowiki is full of languages with only the syntax being strange < 1414183813 184205 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 151 < 1414183813 907276 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :151) there's a rather clear separation into the 99% of esolangs that are fun syntax ideas, and the 3% that someone actually put some thought into. < 1414183815 5258 :perrier!~cinch@107.170.175.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414183821 455859 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you can even have a nice language from that, if you make sure not to repeat the same thing twice: think of piet, whitespace, shakespear or chef < 1414183843 345641 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I bring up Shakespeare and Haifu as examples of well-done thematic languages < 1414183844 417384 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and Ook! of course < 1414183847 12673 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the syntax ties into the semantics < 1414183851 559409 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haifu? let me look taht up < 1414183864 247318 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also have things like Forte, which only works because of the syntax < 1414183902 164949 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's boring ones like lolcode < 1414183929 576426 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think I've seen this Haifu before < 1414184159 450145 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1414184560 313518 :password2!~password@197.76.179.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1414184593 132925 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat114.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1414185193 343762 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414185229 673005 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1414185359 566640 :password2!~password@197.76.133.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414185395 410719 :password2!~password@197.76.133.189 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1414185414 295535 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1414185442 855491 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1414186146 534115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1414186180 274769 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1414186389 82418 :password2!~password@197.76.141.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1414186415 277841 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1414186452 682325 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1414186452 835611 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1414187371 550602 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Musical notes is incapable of doing any sort of useful computation, because it has no way to read the value of a cell on the tape (other than outputting it to the user, which affects its control flow). Thus, with no conditional control constructs, each program always runs the same commands in the same order, making it a particularly restricted class of [[finite state machine]]." < 1414187390 935670 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explanation... could be worded better I think. All deterministic programs with no I always run the same commands in the same order < 1414187402 720063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1414187424 877876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can come up with a better wording, you may solve a long-standing problem in theoretical computer science < 1414187435 441583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("how do we unambiguously define TCness, anyway?") < 1414187469 868605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if we can create a language that's incapable of reading memory that nonetheless has TC behaviour < 1414187499 635434 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would having to output a vaue effect control flow? < 1414187576 536937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't < 1414187591 994320 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another miswording I assume < 1414187606 832987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you kind of have to define input to be able to define TCness < 1414187617 962805 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not a miswording but in that case, if output affects control flow, there are control constructs < 1414187755 337881 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A Stateless protocol language? < 1414187782 219093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that much is a miswording < 1414187785 905609 :ZombieAlive!~N3cr0naV@unaffiliated/zombiealive JOIN :#esoteric < 1414187790 75485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: basically you have a black box you can never look inside < 1414187794 409267 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep seeing criticisms of Scala that relate to its complexity and constant ability to do things in multiple ways, which makes me sad because I want to like Scala and dislike Go < 1414187795 549266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can perform arithmetic on it remotely < 1414187819 599545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you have a fixed sequence of commands you run, without ever being exposed to the actual /values/ < 1414187823 188121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data dissociated from flow control < 1414187850 578252 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to like disliking liking scala, but i don't < 1414187941 149323 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: easy, just cheat by making it store state in something you don't call memory, and add a "memory" as a red herring used only for output < 1414187987 54546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well you'd have to have a limited set of commands that exist inside < 1414187996 970578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no loops, for instance < 1414188004 623753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditionals are probably OK because you can do them arithmetically < 1414188032 786039 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, right, that's another possible < 1414188033 932192 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :way < 1414188063 991193 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a language with only a single big unconditional loop, no control flow except for conditinal input and output statements < 1414188083 371254 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, no conditional control flow < 1414188085 556823 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that already exists < 1414188091 453252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: going home < 1414188117 650908 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1414188170 311841 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between an output-only language that always terminates and a specification for compression? < 1414188183 417638 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have worded that better < 1414188195 621689 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a compression encoidng? < 1414188267 114884 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :compressions always terminate? < 1414188295 29313 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, you can run video compression with such exhaustive search parameters that you won't have a powerful enough computer to run it to compleition < 1414188317 303209 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*decompression, I think < 1414188321 765797 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is the compressed value < 1414188358 26533 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I know it's only at most PSPACE in theory if it's implemented properly < 1414188605 934529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's only PSPACE" is probably not very comforting if you're, say, in the business of making video compression systems, and your clients complain about the computational cost. < 1414188629 574579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you prefix it with "don't be such a wuss". < 1414188631 815596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'll let oerjan shout at the author, oerjan's good at shouting <-- argh < 1414188861 303235 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1414188881 281038 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala for comprehensions aren't applicative do? That makes me sad < 1414188901 325252 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I'm wrong < 1414188950 601236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: you kind of have to define input to be able to define TCness <-- not necessarily input separate from code < 1414188958 150403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1414188962 809768 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, that's why I said earlier today that “Unusable for computation” is a strange category name to apply to non-TC esolangs when we also have esolangs that require doubly exponential time to do anything useful < 1414188965 841742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to be able to vary it. < 1414189015 361281 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, actually requiring doubly exponential time is a tricky thing to achieve, the only way I know to get it is when you can simulate a two counter machine but not a three counter machine or anything more powerful < 1414189057 379046 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for TC, we just say you have to be able to transform any program to that language in polynomial time < 1414189066 114252 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that encompasses the input < 1414189167 438024 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for practically usable languages, you want more than that, but TC doesn't mean practically usable < 1414189224 311219 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF93FB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1414189273 139037 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala implicits remind me of ... hmm. Not totally sure. Kernel static keyed whatchamacallits? Racket syntax parameters? < 1414189532 153132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i have never assumed polynomial time, just "terminating" < 1414189594 416228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC is in the realm of recursive languages, after all, it would be silly to mention "polynomial" at that level < 1414189646 174662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i thought scala for comprehensions used flatmap and map (the latter to avoid needing return) < 1414189692 179718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is vaguely recalled from a stackoverflow question that crossed between scala and haskell, mind you < 1414189693 4437 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, unless you don't use yield but instead an imperative block, in which case it uses foreach in place of flatmap, iiuc < 1414189708 897030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, flatmap is basically >>= < 1414189770 687290 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what is foreach basically? < 1414189793 206508 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it makes me sad that Scala can't just detect when flatmap isn't needed and use something else instead < 1414189801 383638 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would you agree that henkma is a monster? < 1414189840 24430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i tend to interpret "unusable for computation" as considerably stricter than "non-TC", mind you. deadfish might qualify but a terminating language like Coq or Agda would be far from satisfying it < 1414189894 182756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: has he been doing something today, i haven't checked up, last i saw was that we were beating him on the tetration thing but i wasn't expecting that to last < 1414189919 635095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have forgot to check if any problems have expired recently < 1414189959 70645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: also, i guess you also were grumbling that monomorphism prevented you from saving a character? < 1414190040 528926 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I did at some point, but it's no longer an issue, since we're all cheating. < 1414190046 862612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh. < 1414190048 292930 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except you :P < 1414190057 364407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not yet. < 1414190058 448292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1414190064 916912 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to think how to compress shift-reduce parsing tables. Look at http://www.cs.uic.edu/~spopuri/cparser.html#modified-tables too. You could write: [2] M=7 L=6 [0] L=3 E=4 [9] E=12 P=5 a=1 (=2 < 1414190066 41889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i shall have to have a look < 1414190076 974090 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but actually I was referring to swap the characters < 1414190091 244197 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where he somehow shaved off another 6 characters < 1414190134 219705 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you think of compressing tables for using in a shift-reduce parser? < 1414190169 381645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: isn't foreach also >>= just with m () result essentially? just guessing here. < 1414190186 57864 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1414190212 959193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i think swap the characters is something i gave up on long ago < 1414190292 586198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, maybe i actually tied on that, then gave up improving further < 1414190373 907457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: incidentally that was the one where i thought i had cleverly used pattern guards, only to see you beat me < 1414190375 878780 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah we were tied on that at 85, then henkma achieved 84 < 1414190387 561748 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was it until yesterday < 1414190413 285855 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My code isn't quite right. It specifies an error where there should be a reduce.) < 1414190427 715735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i got down to 84 too by abandoning the guards < 1414190543 691799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall the possibility of swap commands with equal chars were causing some obvious options to fail < 1414190591 506735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps he's found a more clever way of avoiding that < 1414190602 937582 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414190603 565444 :heroux!~heroux@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414190603 718872 :applybot!~applybot@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414190603 872193 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1414190604 351844 :14WAADDIM!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl NICK :heroux < 1414190615 77382 :heroux_!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1414190652 718162 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1414190936 582622 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1414191219 10712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a dc tetration in 25B, then it ballooned up to 44B with the workaround for dc's built-in output line wrapping, and now there's a 28B by tails, and I can't be sure if I'm just missing some really obvious workaround for the printing or what. < 1414191284 51828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The anagol 'dc' launcher scripts set DC_LINE_LENGTH=9999 -- even though DC_LINE_LENGTH=0 would disable the splitting completely -- and test #1 output is longer than that.) < 1414191483 275040 :brandonson!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1414191576 322363 :brandons1!~SingingBo@d50-98-172-234.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1414191697 103203 :password2!~password@197.76.141.85 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1414191879 651064 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than Scala, what languages have first-class pattern synonyms? < 1414191894 546515 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1414191903 168580 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although Scala's might be annoying to manipulate in a first-class way... there are a bunch of distinct valid types for them) < 1414192243 268550 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat106.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1414193232 816209 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think both parts can be improved. < 1414193601 757599 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have 14 without, 29 with workaround. < 1414193645 976895 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm cheating < 1414193809 107841 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, 28. < 1414193863 529176 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shortened the number printing) < 1414194996 855132 :ZombieAlive!~N3cr0naV@unaffiliated/zombiealive QUIT :Remote host closed the connection