< 1416701019 19276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1416701162 491730 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at universal coding on Wikipedia. I guess that Elias gamma is best for small numbers, Fibonacci for medium size numbers, and Elias delta for large numbers? Is that it? (So, it would depend on how large the numbers tend to be that you are trying to encode, which one to use?) < 1416701313 2007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elias Gamma would be a good name for a mad scientist < 1416701330 741262 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think so? OK < 1416701402 232046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the "not evil, but dangerously absent-minded" kind < 1416701464 944632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1416701482 791480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I thought it might mean < 1416701557 506494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could have an evil twin brother with a more ominous first name, though. < 1416701570 627010 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK it can do that too < 1416701642 585910 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ray Gamma < 1416701750 688481 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, Saile Gamma doesn't sound terribly evil < 1416701775 37346 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes that one is good job, I think. < 1416701784 742468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Assaile < 1416701891 10996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: just as long as it's short for Rayburn http://www.babynamespedia.com/start/m/ray < 1416701943 682247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Raydon was also tempting < 1416701948 749467 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't see any difference in the long term behavior of delta vs. fibonacci. do you know how it behaves at, say 100,000,000? < 1416702006 612067 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I just saw a graph on Wikipedia that tell you how many bits are needed. < 1416702152 912632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is only used when small numbers are more likely than large numbers (or if you want small numbers to be encoded smaller for other reasons, such as convenience or RLE), but I would think that which one you use would depend on how large the large numbers will tend to become. < 1416702202 255102 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know any resources for learning Smalltalk? < 1416702355 785113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : pretty sure that language literally exists <-- i vaguely recall there's a meta-brainfuck of similar kind, too < 1416702371 533385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: alas, the only way is to go out and meet people. < 1416702380 720522 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :P < 1416702385 569340 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak < 1416702420 87267 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, thanks < 1416702434 673599 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: especially this: http://daitanmarks.sourceforge.net/or/squeak/squeak_tutorial.html < 1416702480 413699 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although going out and meeting people is probably a good idea when I am asking #esoteric for resources to learn a language that is past its heyday just so I can learn what the hang object-oriented programming is about < 1416702540 867878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reminded of the Simula textbook that was on a shelf in the math department's student computer room < 1416702554 696089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Simula Begin", i think was its name < 1416702572 312605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that may literally have been my first introduction to OO < 1416702678 265820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer department still used Pascal for its first semester course then < 1416702696 912747 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I'm aware of the concept, but really to me there's this big shiny light somewhere in the distance that some people keep going on about as though it were God's gift to programmers < 1416702710 623292 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called Object-Oriented Programming < 1416702717 898296 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no idea what the big deal is < 1416702750 301153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well it was a huge leap forward over procedure-oriented programming which used to be the reigning paradigm (see: Pascal) < 1416702783 36789 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what the big idea is because I have no idea what the idea is at all < 1416702793 769624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it's not so clear that it's a leap forward over functional programming, which however "only" lispers new about back then < 1416702820 590850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ml and haskell existed, but i hadn't heard of them) < 1416703020 909034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the basic idea is to have "objects" which tie together a data structure and the code acting on it, allowing an entirely new kind of modularity. (There's also inheritance, but everyone seems to think that's evil these days.) < 1416703066 432753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disclaimer: i haven't really looked much at recent developments in OO after i went functional) < 1416703194 743672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO allows mutation to be more "local", which is an improvement even if it doesn't go as far as pure functionality < 1416703245 175517 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416703249 460835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoily < 1416703335 178544 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan! < 1416703408 649121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Visual Studio support channel"? (yes, i _do_ see JazzyFella i the logs) < 1416703430 978227 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something special about VS? < 1416703448 829069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: he tried to treat this channel as general tech support < 1416703473 117046 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1416703483 222314 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...??? ŏ_Ô? < 1416703488 863325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :smells trolly to me, but i haven't got to the end yet < 1416703517 466624 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION oils his mapole and sharpens it < 1416703531 486216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he left hth < 1416703552 650001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sneakily steals back his swatter and hides it < 1416703586 587649 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1416703591 204384 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quinthellopia! < 1416703631 403467 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also object oriented programming with COM/XPCOM interfaces (with IUnknown and QueryInterface and those things), and there is also prototype-based like JavaScript has. < 1416703692 690737 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: you have wonderful timing. i'm leaving for the airport in 7 hours to fly to mexico, so even though it's a saturday night, i'm headed to bed < 1416703740 567999 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once again, timing is everything... < 1416703748 965250 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you going to be mexicaning into? < 1416703776 689731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's this one line of code that's fudged up.. <-- if this was genuine, i have a hunch it wasn't really about VS at all, except afa my haskell questions would be about vim... < 1416703919 588811 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :playa del carmen area < 1416703922 883686 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :some resort < 1416703939 372265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciudad juárez *ducks for bullets* < 1416703946 745252 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh! nice place! < 1416703957 454567 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, catch ya back here in a week or so, unless i hop online from the hotel lobby and spot you < 1416703964 261032 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the family and I went there in... eh... about 2006 or so, I think? < 1416703981 948339 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonnes vacances! enjoy the sun and the food! < 1416703988 800223 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why would i chat on irc when there is so much mexico outside < 1416703997 813334 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :be sure to visit Tulum! < 1416704002 907450 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and bring a swimsuit.) < 1416704006 790183 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget the liquor and swimming holes < 1416704029 269853 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will see chicken pizza < 1416704034 407060 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cobol < 1416704037 97731 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tequila, rhum, the cenotes― wait? < 1416704048 725830 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1416704057 602517 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken pizza and cobol??? < 1416704058 146296 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1416704062 439879 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnellos! < 1416704084 824278 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha? < 1416704091 159392 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416704092 237912 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichen_Itza http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coba < 1416704095 968431 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trellomp! < 1416704104 569945 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. chicken pizza. I see. < 1416704105 383148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: thanks, i didn't get the Cobol < 1416704109 69143 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of l's < 1416704128 246463 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nainai < 1416704133 833120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stealthily add an s after http < 1416704145 143466 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric ::T < 1416704157 955090 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also after add, come to think of it < 1416704179 477427 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: would you have prefered Dullones? I'm very flexible when it comes to welcomes. < 1416704191 701430 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dull ones < 1416704214 179047 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. no good. Dulnellos it is, then. < 1416704228 751814 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :My username is just a mispelt version Dullness < 1416704242 908151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellomecs < 1416704255 202815 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...." < 1416704294 605130 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual studio support channel still hasnt been changed? < 1416704331 914990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Visual Studio euthanasia channel | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1416704351 123211 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 93 support desk would be a nice topic < 1416704355 85889 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1416704496 618860 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desk/channel < 1416704496 798685 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i prefer Dulnes but you go with that for now. < 1416704740 16793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : which is a simple geometric and beautiful typeface for large text? <-- times roman hth < 1416704750 839573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially good for large stone inscriptions < 1416704780 174939 :S1!~S1@p4FF92920.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1416704793 69510 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raavi is nice tbh < 1416704835 907479 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Times Roman is very < 1416704851 200718 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Itchy on the eyes is how i would put it < 1416704975 52892 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Smalltalk uses only 2-3 concept. < 1416704987 714243 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing how they managed to use only -1 concept! < 1416705030 523046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1-concepts sound reasonable < 1416705037 333106 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/negative%20thinking < 1416705050 326886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know the empty topological space has dimension -1 < 1416705063 307692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that lebesgue covering dimension < 1416705071 121287 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ow. < 1416705072 841314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably several? < 1416705085 319710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know that < 1416705088 62825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it fits very nicely into definitions < 1416705093 432407 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416705094 292208 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it makes some sort of sense, maybe < 1416705106 597611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the one-point space surely has dimension 0 < 1416705114 819128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the empty space should have dimension -∞?? < 1416705153 820640 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the prime decomposition of zero has all exponents = infinity < 1416705189 240727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, see, if you have an n-dimensional space, then by one of those inductive definitions that means the boundary sets in it are n-1 dimensional, and n is the smallest number that works for. < 1416705207 694692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that happens to give the right definition for 0-dimensional if the empty space is -1 < 1416705247 583522 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hmm, I'd prefer 0 not to have a prime factorization. it is the greatest element in the divisibility lattice though. < 1416705302 436475 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boundary sets of what? < 1416705310 851703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...let me look it up < 1416705317 665676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i guess you mean "at most n-1 dimensional" or something? < 1416705319 521209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1416705372 857645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well it works for lebesgue covering too, i see < 1416705415 646544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We want the dimension of a point to be 0, and a point has empty boundary, so we start with" < 1416705419 105431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\operatorname{ind}(\varnothing)=\operatorname{Ind}(\varnothing)=-1 < 1416705457 298859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_dimension < 1416705478 18566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, at most < 1416705659 748055 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot seems to be missing! < 1416705663 265633 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie! < 1416705673 886341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungone < 1416706055 536788 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xpwdglvvhatfcgxc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1416706187 215503 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416706400 520455 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nellooga. < 1416706446 218596 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1416706484 73829 :scounder!~scounder@phroa.lost.the.game.rikairchy.net QUIT :Changing host < 1416706484 283491 :scounder!~scounder@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1416707347 177786 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1416707790 727602 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@172-2-16-34.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416707827 430956 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freefall theory: the fact that Florence now has a wiped ID chip will become relevant < 1416707891 23646 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1416707905 60502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm practically asleep already. < 1416707927 961472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome back, fungot < 1416707928 184223 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: may be." a little confusing to people who think that way < 1416707972 8875 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@172-2-16-34.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416708035 243749 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: of course people who think like you are confused. even people who don't. < 1416708035 449061 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: maybe i should fix the texinfo if you don't < 1416708056 357647 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I ain't touching no texinfo. pfshaw! manpages for ever! < 1416708056 823453 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: asian girls usually are in decimal anyway, though, i don't need your stinkin' context, riastradh. :) what particular differences are you having < 1416708080 654953 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asian girls are in decimal? de quossé? < 1416708128 748712 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1416708128 892257 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1416708213 67414 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have known better than to expect anything else than irc. < 1416708236 930579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1416708237 112803 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1416708239 623140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1416708253 409003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nlab would be a good style < 1416708445 542157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: done any good sword stopping lately? < 1416708445 685723 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! < 1416708517 695267 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ... < 1416708517 839437 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: like, thanks princess. i'll take that under advisement!! crono!! crono!! < 1416708536 645786 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ok, that was two cronos, can you do three? < 1416708536 789333 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone c < 1416708567 144908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz < 1416708567 326684 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) < 1416708568 334465 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, a different loop, I'll take what I can get. < 1416708581 885677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that _is_ the loop. < 1416708596 741233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Loop < 1416708607 936215 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "crono!! crono!! crono!! crono!! crono!! crono!! ..." would've been so much nicer. < 1416708649 507836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't seen that, i suspect that isn't an unescapable one < 1416708660 498717 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sorry, but I'm no expert on fungot loops. < 1416708660 642234 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i've never been to the bottom of a bottle. do i seem to see them, but they all suspect he's sad. they say " are you alright < 1416708712 634046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: well if he's sad he should report for termination immediately! < 1416708712 778408 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: people in car car simulator trucko boat 3. that's a ' thr' followed that. < 1416708723 77206 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: who's "he" and what's he doing at the bottom of the bottle? < 1416708723 220656 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i like that this is, like, a 50/ 50 mixture of both societal and biological self, all that gets us is a murky combination of influences, predisposition, anyways. the point is that i came, i'd have to throw away a good chunk of it for the days i've already lived. < 1416708751 523815 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: that did not help at all. < 1416708751 667453 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: dammit t-rex, how many? encase unspoiled areas, where good and bad at different points in the arcade version, this isn't a riddle. it's a real question i'm investigating! < 1416708842 127772 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot < 1416708842 289527 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: this may be a bad time to say all the run-of-the-mill thoughts we have! and it is a secret! i never < 1416708843 831406 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir Fungellot cannot be stopped by that sword alone! < 1416708852 25337 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1416708864 727943 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes a lot more sense now. < 1416708942 169201 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "run-of-the-mill secrets" < 1416709182 495797 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416709588 471032 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1416709714 704628 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I'm thinking too much. http://qdb.us/307308 ... I guess Thurmond or one of Thurmond's freinds is called Josh, which happens to approximate ёж. < 1416709845 720946 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take "What is a Yozh for 400". < 1416709949 147512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the zh is devoiced, it seems < 1416709971 921664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1416709976 753389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you pronounce unvoiced zh < 1416709995 500786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um russian has mandatory devoicing of final consonants < 1416710019 185107 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, ж is voiced, that's why I wrote "approximate" < 1416710032 6124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um it's not reflected in spelling < 1416710050 101173 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ж is the voiced ш < 1416710060 39438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but e.g. the ipa here is unvoiced https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%91%D0%B6 < 1416710078 989743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i know that. i'm just saying it's _pronounced_ unvoiced in that position. < 1416710105 418749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the voiced щ twh < 1416710143 914970 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't exist. жтж?! < 1416710168 8683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think щ is actually pronounced as штш < 1416710200 418937 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just what they want us to think < 1416710211 403777 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did forget most of the Russion I've ever learned, but ёжик was a mnemonik for the ж letter which looks a bit like a hedgehog.) < 1416710214 946458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: from what i learned on wikipedia while learning a russian song, the t is usually not pronounced these days < 1416710234 568098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ш and щ are pronounced slightly differently < 1416710242 84060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just can barely hear the difference < 1416710250 590773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah but there the ж is not final < 1416710256 974393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i talk to russian speakers and they tell me which one is which < 1416710313 541394 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i thought the usual mnemonic was жук? < 1416710319 355101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it looks a bit like one < 1416710333 924783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "djuk" is a common hebrew term for cockroach < 1416710339 18412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ask them if there's a difference between ш and с in front of palatalizing vowels < 1416710350 669305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they aren't around hth < 1416710354 73072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1416710396 212735 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it may be voiced less than in the middle of a word, but I'd still expect an audible difference; (also I'd expect to have learned about such a difference and I'm sure I haven't) < 1416710506 631631 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that would make sense, but maybe hedgehogs appeal more to children (I was 8 or 9 at the time...) < 1416710522 652574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hebrew has so many good words < 1416710563 341372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"chupchik" should be imported < 1416710569 207077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think it doesn't really fit in english < 1416710621 589842 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416710681 632355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my impression is that щ is pronounced like two consonants, they're just both fricative-like < 1416710746 320705 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there are recordings at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palato-alveolar_sibilant and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant < 1416710755 32245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should have studied linguistics, in which case i would now be in a #linguistics channel somehow discussing math < 1416710789 764512 :zlsa!~zlsa@unaffiliated/zlsa PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1416710836 481590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone put a [citation needed] on norwegian for the former :P < 1416710846 113891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean it's not what i think it is < 1416710871 600959 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1416710938 156058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Application blocked by security settings" yeah i think that happened the last time i tried to hear sound on wikipedia too < 1416710979 748220 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is no actual 't' in щ, but you interrupt the air flow with your tongue just like for a t. < 1416711016 149032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1416711128 266910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the other article claims _that_ is the sound norwegian uses. < 1416711150 937640 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a regional thing? < 1416711169 11625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: it depends on neither awea norwegian < 1416711197 46902 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear Norwegian can't be properly experienced except through being very, very regional. < 1416711199 540576 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1416711218 632810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: it's me trying for a neither-nor pun and not succeeding hth < 1416711226 617698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yep < 1416711227 909270 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :life is hard < 1416711403 966544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats shachaf -----### < 1416711426 415681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was pwetty bad < 1416711487 389606 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just understood shachaf's pun. I shouldn't be laughing. < 1416711520 164837 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i have a question < 1416711527 930747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1416711532 215360 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "awea" have a meaning? < 1416711546 451533 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you're facing north on the equator. you go east while still facing north. eventually you end up back at your starting position still facing north. < 1416711550 678340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it has a pwetty cwear meaning, yes < 1416711569 25675 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you walk a bit north before going east, you'll follow some other longitude line < 1416711585 537673 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1416711590 981116 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you walk all the way to the north pole without turning, and then sidestep right, you'll be on a latitude. < 1416711600 848049 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i missing omsething? this seems too abrupt, somehow < 1416711613 368784 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I have to agwee with oewjan, that was pwetty awful. < 1416711693 976678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: um is your problem that longitude isn't continuous at the poles? < 1416711703 515042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or even defined) < 1416711704 291593 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: you're dividing by zero < 1416711704 885147 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1416711708 682892 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i knew about that. < 1416711725 557532 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow "right" going from meaning east to meaning south to meaning west within an infinitesimal space seems really weird. < 1416711761 734127 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny circle, tinier circle, ENTIRE CIRCUMFERENCE OF THE MANIFOLD, tinier circle, tiny circle < 1416711782 797012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: hm it's not _actually_ east if you walk more than infinitesimally other than at the equator < 1416711798 604327 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wht? < 1416711821 443861 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on the equator, you'll never be walking on a straight line (great circle), why does this suddenly change when you reach the pole? it's a bit hard to walk on a circle with zero radius, granted, but that's what you ought to be doing.) < 1416711822 399940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what does "sidestep" mean < 1416711830 790601 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( < 1416711845 516571 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah. maybe the problem is i'm assuming you maintain your direction relative to the pole, except at the pole < 1416711848 738263 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1416711859 688875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1416711860 657213 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1416711881 556600 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :riemannian geometry: weird. < 1416711910 745812 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's before you take a jump to the left, and put your knees together. < 1416711922 227745 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw (off topic) im curious on the concept of 0 but whatever < 1416711929 694719 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm done < 1416711932 279668 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this about zeroes < 1416711948 238975 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :additive identity, multiplicative whatever, deliciously donut-shaped < 1416711966 186367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put your left foot in, your left foot out, you put your left foot in and shake off the icebear gnawing at it < 1416711976 115457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: it's another word for root hth < 1416711976 418018 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*polar bear < 1416711983 522425 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why root has uid 0 < 1416711987 339985 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1416712005 592604 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: it's an absorbing element for multiplication. < 1416712036 188633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the monoid of possibly-infinite lists, every infinite list is a left zero < 1416712038 389008 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well i feel like the only reason dividing by zero is impossible is because you are secretly dividing by infinity ( this is just my speculation ) < 1416712058 798413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you're secretly multiplying by it hth < 1416712062 622314 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a conspiracy by The Man intended to keep you down < 1416712071 951749 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :K < 1416712074 696018 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dividing by zero doesn't work because you don't know which infinity you are multiplying with htah < 1416712076 966302 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make sense because there's too many things it could be < 1416712093 407362 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0*2 = 0, but 0*3 = 0 too < 1416712115 132007 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everytime you divide by zero a universe ends < 1416712116 882750 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where surreal numbers get quite useful. < 1416712117 136798 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just so happens that 0 * x = 1 has no solution (unless you allow 0 = 1, and very few mathematicians allow that kind of ring). < 1416712140 530785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you allow * = + < 1416712148 41281 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo zero divisors, < 1416712154 387507 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 / 0 = ... < 1416712165 348672 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the reason dividing by infinity is not allowed is because 0x=1 has no solution rather than for other reason, although there are other reason too that is combine with. < 1416712168 989387 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if that's supposed to become a ring ... how does that satisfy the distributive laws? < 1416712173 392958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :0⁰ = 0.99999... < 1416712174 151259 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, there is many reasons. < 1416712187 657021 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's fucked up? nilpotency < 1416712198 675784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: whoa whoa whoa < 1416712202 166402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nilpotency is great < 1416712202 389751 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :naaah < 1416712205 421603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about < 1416712210 464726 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then < 1416712215 567332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I suppose a trivial ring will have 0=1 though? < 1416712219 899974 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean it's cool < 1416712222 289052 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also? fucked up < 1416712224 890507 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a fact < 1416712248 876622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1416712269 896148 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't make the rules < 1416712273 571932 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 / x=1 < 1416712295 237261 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :*°* < 1416712296 507357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um surely the trivial ring is a ring, otherwise you don't have a variety. fields are another matter though. (also see ...wtf wikipedia went down) < 1416712303 162005 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's quite common to have 0 != 1 as one of the ring axioms. < 1416712328 205134 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Really? I didn't think it is. < 1416712350 305797 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 < 1416712351 790093 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1416712353 952505 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need cofee < 1416712358 410031 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coffee* < 1416712365 20984 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not universally agreed upon. (obviously since it's not even universally agreed that rings have multiplicative units) < 1416712401 293571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you will have many definition of a "ring" < 1416712406 911833 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1416712411 71398 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like you shouldnt even let a bot try to div by 0 < 1416712412 906743 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :three, at least. < 1416712428 224746 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its very deadly for most bots < 1416712428 368019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_with_one_element < 1416712438 13850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So "all vector spaces are free" tells you that a linear map : V -o W is characterized by its action on a basis of V < 1416712441 75747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Right?) < 1416712451 821729 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun! < 1416712455 741279 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for all primes except 1 ... < 1416712459 343353 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phun < 1416712469 457027 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :all primes except 1? does that include -infinity or not? < 1416712480 708248 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: of course not < 1416712485 751576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But is there some similar thing that talks about the basis of W? < 1416712500 425961 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: coffee is always good. drink more coffee. < 1416712511 383089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. the thing that makes matrices work. < 1416712541 706539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well "characterized" would seem to imply to me just one way, you need also that any map from the basis can be extended < 1416712561 918077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1416712583 131823 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was alluding to history. Quoting randomly from the internet (Yahoo answers): "Actually pre 19th centuary 1 was considerd to be a prime." < 1416712590 209036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you could take any generating set, and it would be characterized by its action on that, even if it's not independent < 1416712609 696557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean for it not to be independent? < 1416712625 65948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The elements of the basis can just be taken as formal elements or however people normally put that. < 1416712632 784775 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But once you start getting serious about number theory, you'll end up with many statements that hold for all primes except 1. So it's more convenient if you just define 1 not to be prime. < 1416712637 392032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say : FA -o W, where F is the free functor. < 1416712643 243112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I don't understand your objection. < 1416712651 36442 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a joke < 1416712668 518336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my objection is that much of your claim is baked into the definition of "basis" < 1416712702 845528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other sets such that a linear transformation is characterized by its action on them. < 1416712714 956505 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416712724 662940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you were _not_ working in a vector space, those sets might be all you have < 1416712726 724040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean any superset of a basis? < 1416712732 473160 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all manage to make linear seem even more complicated than kolmogorov could make it. impressive? yes. < 1416712734 23217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for vector spaces yes < 1416712738 113706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you really need the word "basis" here. < 1416712757 30093 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: HYPOSEGMENTAL CHICKEN < 1416712762 698299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a map : FA -o W, it corresponds to a function : A -> UW < 1416712768 542979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you need some way to imply that there exists a set such that any map from that set to W can be extended to the whole of V. < 1416712807 76282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that part of what it means to say that FA is free? < 1416712810 291734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which for vector spaces is the same as "basis" but that's not the case in other algebras (including non-free modules over rings) < 1416712814 708826 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we could say 1 over infinity = 0 < 1416712824 574617 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh that is a problem because if we divide 1 into infinite peices and they end up 0 each what happened to 1? So nvm < 1416712846 275341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ok maybe you only had implication in one direction to start with < 1416712852 634796 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416712896 339085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused. < 1416712904 873065 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no particular need to define one over infinity < 1416712911 190305 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just go into projective geometry or something instead < 1416712927 96748 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: now you have a new concept that doesn't fit nicely into rings, namely infinity. < 1416712960 452607 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :(brain fart) < 1416712965 951108 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1416712973 568235 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: You *can* do this, but you're bound to lose some properties; in this case, that's likely to be inverses for addition. < 1416713023 645916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: 1 over infinity = 0 is pretty standard for functions on the riemann sphere. you still get trouble with 0/0, though. < 1416713046 885107 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Anyway, as far as I can tell, that's half of why you can make matrices work between finite-dimensional vector spaces. < 1416713065 133616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can "take a vector apart" in terms of its basis. < 1416713107 813974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1416713141 310947 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But where does the other half come from? < 1416713156 843815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that just from W being free? < 1416713167 986540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrices also work somewhat for commutative rings < 1416713183 184302 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you give a linear transform just by describing its eigenspaces and kernel, i wonder. would that work without a basis. i guess not since that probably adds up to a basis. < 1416713188 447156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't know about modules over them < 1416713219 2299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think i'm too tired for this < 1416713230 430523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey you were too tired last night too < 1416713234 965940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time oerjan < 1416713235 865649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for oerjan is Sun Nov 23 04:26:46 2014 < 1416713241 406723 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get some fucking sleep < 1416713242 336483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should sleep hth < 1416713244 143948 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: the kernel is one of the eigenspaces hth < 1416713246 726141 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you like ninety < 1416713248 133842 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i know < 1416713283 325460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i may be permanently tired of very high math. < 1416713296 10350 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :godspeed, friend < 1416713296 418598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, i didn't know you were high < 1416713301 705218 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1416713359 94115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also neck pain < 1416713399 888209 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1/x, 1 1.00000, 2 0.50000, 4 0.25000, 10 0.10000, 100 0.01000 < 1416713407 986319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: my sleeping cycle has been utterly unstable for years; i _couldn't_ sleep now if i tried. < 1416713415 494434 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :take some xtc < 1416713420 732426 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a roofie < 1416713483 518857 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think coffee is bad for me < 1416713498 254944 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/0 never works < 1416713499 621002 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never < 1416713514 116986 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shhh < 1416713519 843998 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: somewhere you need the property that any basis for a subspace can be extended to a basis of the whole space. < 1416713554 169534 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess humans will never know < 1416713564 515552 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im done trying to calculate this < 1416713567 604459 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FTR, I generally don't find category theory helpful for this. I keep having to translate everything back into vector space terms.) < 1416713579 261926 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :question two: how does a simulation of relativistic physics work? is it possible to have an absolute spacetime that internal observers would see as einsteinian? < 1416713597 952033 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you have to do the events business < 1416713611 962248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Why? < 1416713625 622748 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuase all the category stuff ounds like gibberish that's why < 1416713630 892276 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why what? It's abstract nonsense, is why. < 1416713631 301481 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to make a small programming language where the type system really is algebraic < 1416713638 682848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need that property? < 1416713640 491840 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the type of an 8-bit number would be 2^8 < 1416713641 717125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_theory hth < 1416713652 400771 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's a quote, but who said that...) < 1416713655 145138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't know vector space terms and I know at least a few category theory terms. < 1416713655 328260 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, That sounds really cool < 1416713657 510123 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :algebraic data types are sufficiently algebraic for me < 1416713669 596751 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be interested in it < 1416713675 428713 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :2spooky4me < 1416713693 358615 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Yes, we should see it OK, try to make such a thing please < 1416713698 417715 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah maybe it wasn't any person in particular. < 1416713700 913560 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 1 + x, bam, linked list or whatever < 1416713707 796911 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work again. whatever fuck math < 1416713720 453909 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1416713729 330356 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 1+ax. right. < 1416713729 729357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i had another question about free things < 1416713737 423133 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1+ax² is a binary tree and bla bla. bla. < 1416713742 301940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some sense in which a topology generated by a subbasis is free over that subbasis < 1416713761 198342 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now done < 1416713763 781620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: the twin paradox means that a simulation that includes it cannot give the correct einsteinian times for both observers < 1416713764 607265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. maybe you have a lattice of all possible topologies over a set or something < 1416713765 823399 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1416713769 676407 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note you'd want to have some sort of tag system too, to tag if a number is unsigned or such < 1416713799 612485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the simulation could at best only be watched by one person in "realtime" < 1416713810 159759 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's also that my knowledge of CT is rather limited. I shut down at the point anybody mentions adjoint functors. < 1416713814 182533 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. z Z < 1416713817 168870 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm < 1416713825 43176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time int-e < 1416713825 826713 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for int-e is Sun Nov 23 04:36:36 2014 < 1416713835 118912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: have you considered that adjoint functors are the best thing < 1416713838 492030 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just suddenly seemed weird that hashlife relies on their being a speed of light, but not lorentz covariance < 1416713841 958496 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...probably < 1416713868 294442 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The twin paradox is resolved by considering acceleration < 1416713870 175808 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've seen some enthusiasm displayed on the subject. I couldn't follow. < 1416713913 45432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i think the catsters videos about them were good?? < 1416713923 352887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.$// < 1416713996 179016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: i once tried to find out if rule 110 had a nontrivial space-time symmetry < 1416714003 743986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still not sure < 1416714025 716516 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a professor that does computational physics and he already indulged me about GR, I'll just ask < 1416714027 375252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is _possible_ you could find a rule 11 metacell that moved at a different speed < 1416714033 68384 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*110 < 1416714076 34804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was intrigued by how the list of gliders known for it seemed to have a pattern in the speeds allowed.) < 1416714140 309237 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What is a nontrivial space-time symmetry? < 1416714143 53070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally rule 110 has a different maximal speed _inside_ the ether pattern < 1416714146 15705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1416714151 626244 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess GoL isn't lorenz. because the speed of light is absolute. huh. < 1416714156 782309 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how i hadn't noticed this < 1416714174 184979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: um the speed of light is absolute in reality too < 1416714189 838566 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean... < 1416714193 247054 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, in general there's only one frame of reference in cellular automata < 1416714200 23068 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had a colle- ok yeah that basically. < 1416714205 601343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anything other than translation, mirroring and rescaling... < 1416714224 727354 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were a living automata collection and were moving at a constant velocity, you coul dtell that you were moving at a constant velocity. < 1416714261 400067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd want a map which took a complete time evolution of rule 110 and mapped it, locally continuously, into another complete time evolution moving at a different relative speed. < 1416714302 579904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there would be some restriction on the patterns allowed to deal with the need to be inside the "ether" pattern. < 1416714336 68677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume the ether pattern would be like a vacuum, and mapped to itself. < 1416714356 912512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would need to be some expansion in size, i think. < 1416714381 616935 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crazy ... http://uncomp.uwe.ac.uk/genaro/Papers/Papers_on_CA_files/MARTINEZ.pdf < 1416714385 69561 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than something like rule 110, you could have some sort of particle physics thing? < 1416714391 159610 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just, turing-complete < 1416714414 629467 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis" called that? It isn't really a scientific hypothesis, as far as I can tell. < 1416714441 987786 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, it doesn't say scientific in its name < 1416714454 263487 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hypothesis" is a liberal lie, join the navy < 1416714457 620725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : The twin paradox is resolved by considering acceleration <-- you still cannot make a multiplayer simulator that lets each player experience the correct proper time, though, because of it. < 1416714480 451156 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes you can, you just have to load one of the players into a rocket.. < 1416714491 980119 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really seem a hypothesis at all, really... < 1416714532 864008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: O KAY < 1416714556 959956 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: conjecture? < 1416714564 896133 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"idea" < 1416714567 108625 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brainfart" < 1416714578 63722 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really seem a conjecture either. < 1416714611 503038 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there is anything wrong with the mathematical universe hypothesis, but the name seems a bit wrong. < 1416714618 702613 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a hypothesis, just not a scientific one. < 1416714651 916973 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Are you sure? I am not very sure. < 1416714655 106999 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least my limited brain cannot imagine any way it could be tested) < 1416714659 791753 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics is a conspiracy < 1416714667 32396 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too mysterious < 1416714673 262766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i think that's the paper i looked at, way back < 1416714675 759240 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why primes? < 1416714701 232833 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not random, but we can't just find a pattern < 1416714728 507549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Rather than something like rule 110, you could have some sort of particle physics thing? <-- the thing is, if it's not 1d you have to deal with rotations and i have no clue how that would work. < 1416714787 995706 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You'd just have a bunch of straight line intersections, I assume < 1416714829 740559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean to have lorentz-like invariance or at least an endomorphism < 1416714834 467472 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like gooey desics < 1416714912 52339 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: (I'd also call the Church-Turing thesis a hypothesis.) < 1416714917 27486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: when it was discussed over at aaronson's blog (he's a friend of tegmark but otherwise disagrees pretty strongly), someone brought up "dust theory" from the SF novel permutation city < 1416714925 611296 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloquially, "working assumption" < 1416714928 68805 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking egan. < 1416714946 183157 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That I can see, kind of. But it is a bit different. < 1416714946 898718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would allow you a test, although not one that you could bring back the results of. < 1416714955 434033 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's my physics professor emailed. i'm sure he'll be happy to get a half-formed email about something he doesn't actually work in. < 1416714976 125426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is pretty similar to black holes...) < 1416715012 568064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :About mathematical universe hypothesis, I think it is more philosophical kind of and isn't scientific (and that Occam's Razor wouldn't actually tell you anything about it and is irrelevant to this kind of discussion, even though other people say otherwise). I also do believe in such thing though, in a way; have you heard of my diagram involving GOD and how it relates to such thing? < 1416715046 549354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i'm still waiting for that picture of a black hole that was promised "soon" over a year ago, i think. < 1416715051 144568 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :science is also a liberal lie. < 1416715059 266191 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered accepting our lord and savor feyerabend < 1416715063 189121 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how you can see how it follow from that, its relation more to philosophy than scientific. < 1416715066 358969 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's delicious < 1416715072 595477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i haven't been keeping up with science news, i assume i'd have heard of _that_ < 1416715076 114583 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it's philosophical. Is there hope of being a mathematical model of the whole universe or is the best we can do to come up with ever more precise approximations? < 1416715076 345109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: I do not understand. < 1416715094 154608 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemological_anarchism < 1416715100 163320 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(These two options are not mutually exclusive either.) < 1416715104 648009 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Probably, coming up with ever more precise approximations; over time it can be figured out. < 1416715138 930377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: delicious? is this a cannibalistic religion like christianity? < 1416715145 483340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whether or not anyone figures out an exact mathematical model; but I think even if someone can you cannot really tell for sure?) < 1416715166 275010 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: absolutely < 1416715171 42138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1416715234 277888 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it must mathematically exist, but that it doesn't necessarily mean anyone can ever figure out. < 1416715271 338484 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: So you believe in the MUH. < 1416715278 256478 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have told you about my diagram with four concentric circles? < 1416715284 505170 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes, I have said that already. < 1416715303 849035 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a Venn diagram? < 1416715311 293340 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i misspelled "savior", but hey why mess wwith that < 1416715363 895187 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Not really < 1416715450 372761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The contents of the diagram aren't really considered as sets although sets may be a concept that can be understood more easily than GOD. < 1416715521 28229 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no understanding the elements of the empty set. Their remarkable properties are without end. < 1416715554 752510 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did "god" stand for in ged again < 1416715555 153888 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is easily understood: There are none. That isn't the point, though. < 1416715567 458037 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD over... something/ < 1416715584 348125 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :geb? < 1416715584 851443 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicycldine: "GOD Over Djinn" (if you mean Godel, Escher, Bach) < 1416715594 48690 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was it < 1416715598 122065 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes i meant geb. durr < 1416715610 270292 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Djinn. < 1416715678 551909 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix id -- this was the essence of the GOD computation, it just happened to pick a different fixed point < 1416715682 402591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1416715780 389654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about Hofstadter's books though < 1416715884 809362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: iirc it was also implied that some steps would have errors < 1416715932 762480 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xndrkhvnhvmdbize JOIN :#esoteric < 1416715958 881959 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hofstadter Shmoffstadter < 1416715996 297481 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like his book though < 1416716736 45462 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1416717154 356838 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416717449 305631 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1416718471 433102 :augur_!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1416718742 868507 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416718839 377555 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1416718895 3015 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416718929 662900 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416719249 362594 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416719537 334588 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1416719658 74421 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416720494 135269 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@198.23.103.82-static.reverse.softlayer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1416721874 265833 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-2-71.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1416722199 592604 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1416722573 61560 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@198.23.103.82-static.reverse.softlayer.com QUIT : < 1416722668 839368 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqfhqgtfjpdzjtas QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1416723687 711560 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@198.23.103.82-static.reverse.softlayer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1416724859 723265 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmsikbtgbprcufne JOIN :#esoteric < 1416724875 259942 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmsikbtgbprcufne PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy birthday to me... Ew < 1416725173 812182 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew indeed... http://iambaker.net/rainbow-birthday-cake/ < 1416725209 541857 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmsikbtgbprcufne PRIVMSG #esoteric :No... < 1416725223 8304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to Dulnes, happy birthday to you!' | rainwords < 1416725224 595017 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​09Happy 02birthday 06to 13you, 04happy 07birthday 08to 09you, 02happy 06birthday 13to 04Dulnes, 07happy 08birthday 09to 02you! < 1416725296 630343 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmsikbtgbprcufne PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 thanks oerjan < 1416725347 330346 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmsikbtgbprcufne PRIVMSG #esoteric :And int-e if my child requested of me a "pretty cake" i would give them a cupcake with a hot dog sticking out of it < 1416725357 584734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not a believer in the 7-color rainbow, i see < 1416725393 893955 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmsikbtgbprcufne PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the gray scale rainbows < 1416725441 581988 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmsikbtgbprcufne PRIVMSG #esoteric :The awful ones you see at a Florida airport < 1416725742 721540 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: apparently not < 1416725784 543331 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416725863 808992 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes list functions he still can't use anywhere ... < 1416726046 544468 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1416726139 468868 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I had not read friday's GG comic, I like the general. < 1416726311 359645 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good test list for making sure foldl and foldr are working as expected? < 1416726493 940435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (:) [] [1..] < 1416726495 295124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... < 1416726523 708052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (:) [] (1:2:undefined) < 1416726525 78184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1416726547 329661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (flip (:)) [] [1..10] < 1416726548 681823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1] < 1416726588 406348 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I'm in a lisp, no lazy evaluation. That's a good point though, that was the usecase LYAH used. < 1416726653 200021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, test [] < 1416726747 937023 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I thought I'd try subtraction. Got this: http://pasterack.org/pastes/41876 < 1416726812 187223 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, that should say -15. < 1416726855 279440 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@198.23.103.82-static.reverse.softlayer.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416726882 2412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks right to me < 1416726882 537383 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@198.23.103.82-static.reverse.softlayer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1416726884 77678 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does appear to be the correct result if I step through it in my head. < 1416726894 601137 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder why Racket's foldl/r don't do the same. < 1416726900 543115 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1416726922 43460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly it uses different argument order? < 1416726942 693073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (flip (-)) 0 [1..5] < 1416726944 200953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1416726946 110368 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be. < 1416726958 306419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with an even length list < 1416727023 398256 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is the perfect test case < 1416727027 108416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the free monoid < 1416727082 371970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :another good test case is the free pointed magma < 1416727104 593204 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. data N a = N a | NEmpty | NAppend (N a) (N a) < 1416727145 23848 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pasterack.org/pastes/37221 < 1416727147 498956 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@198.23.103.82-static.reverse.softlayer.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1416727549 110839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats shachaf in the type system ~~~~~¤¤¤ < 1416727564 119689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1416727570 235176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did ı do < 1416727591 234311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused the value [] with the type constructor [] < 1416727608 403673 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ahh, I see what you mean. http://pasterack.org/pastes/16294 < 1416727648 576827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh < 1416727688 903739 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's in how I wrote the null case vs. how Racket wrote it. < 1416727749 335168 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pasterack.org/pastes/10137 < 1416727771 510410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could configure Chromium to open links in Incognito mode. < 1416727779 709719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way I could just click them instead of copying and pasting. < 1416727908 163477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nitey < 1416728105 977305 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416728405 240094 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhh. I see now. Racket flips the arguments in foldl. Which is why it makes a clean list, and why the results come the way they do. < 1416728556 370323 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie. Heresy (and Haskell) recur with something like (foldl fun (fun base (car lst)) (cdr lst)), I can get the Racket result by instead doing (foldl fun (fun (car lst) base) (cdr lst)). < 1416728833 295758 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems weird. < 1416728944 286635 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use for/fold? < 1416728946 230489 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1416728953 714738 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's to make sure that folds make clean lists when working with cons. < 1416728959 383399 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1416728960 365758 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often does foldl/foldr itself get passed to another function? < 1416729035 352181 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends, are you writing pointless haskell < 1416729061 758124 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Guy Steele has a talk about 'foldl and foldr considered slightly harmful' < 1416729081 811174 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a teacher's post I was just reading flat out just said 'don't use foldl.' < 1416729082 649669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"monoids considered better" < 1416729084 423587 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-worjaqbhjwugtusr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1416729089 789169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A teacher's post? < 1416729111 951034 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructor notes from this class: http://www.scs.stanford.edu/11au-cs240h/ < 1416729117 644597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1416729126 639197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, foldl is almost never the right function to use. < 1416729147 520824 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how is foldr harmful? < 1416729171 216143 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it sucks trying to translate foldr into a non-lazy language because then you need to figure out how to get it to terminate < 1416729171 957498 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Dunno, but Steel's talk is here: http://vimeo.com/6624203 < 1416729201 93171 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess foldr is a bit linear? < 1416729219 931600 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scs.stanford.edu/11au-cs240h/notes/par.html < 1416729249 254936 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess performance wise they can both be problematic in Haskell too? < 1416729940 674360 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading Racket's sources does make me understand why Haskellers love that type system ... so much ass covering. < 1416730155 789023 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool. just look at any haskell definition involving tuples. < 1416730364 488135 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the new Smash Brothers game, and they didn't add Professor Oak and Imakuni? as playable characters. < 1416730989 130169 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the Victorian era (when the reigning monarch was Queen Victoria) The British Rule was widely used in contract bridge games throughout the British Empire. In certain parts of India, local bylaws enforced its usage, punishable by a fine." How and why did they enforce this? < 1416732318 345983 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416732566 347784 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1416733076 113899 :HashNode!~GibsonAn@c-68-47-246-141.hsd1.tn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416733094 389618 :HashNode!~GibsonAn@c-68-47-246-141.hsd1.tn.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1416733128 27202 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1416733336 863529 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1416733469 4533 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmsikbtgbprcufne QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1416734123 298764 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah hah. Was looking at F# a minute ago, and just now looked at the channel topic. XD < 1416734870 338360 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1416735265 406467 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq_uptime < 1416735266 85322 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d 18h 57m 27s < 1416735439 978081 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1416735579 504995 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried the guy steele talk < 1416735580 633045 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says < 1416735583 718886 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, Sandra Bullock LiedHer Fans Are In Shock. Her Huge Secret Is Finally Exposed!" < 1416735593 991500 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I clicked it was about divina mcall < 1416735636 916236 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it. < 1416735647 127504 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sandra Bullock is better/more interesting < 1416735671 142443 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does that have to do with Guy Steele? < 1416735677 353507 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1416736030 75272 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol his "lisp code" < 1416736042 362823 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not valid scheme OR CL < 1416736299 99711 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lisp code? < 1416736309 176808 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimeo.com/6624203 < 1416736615 778702 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416737719 871224 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fun" conversation starter: have you ever lost a piece of code you were really proud of, and weren't able to rewrite it again? < 1416737953 371837 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not remember. < 1416738851 855262 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416739135 860007 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1416742689 747449 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416742702 990118 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: The source code of Stlisp probably < 1416742715 748695 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess I could rewrite it. It's just a matter of time/effort. < 1416742728 91412 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Stlang source code < 1416742762 298508 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was younger I wrote a really clever routine for haggling with a shopkeeper in an RPG that's still better than any such mechanic I've seen since. Then my brother powercycled the floppy drive with the disk still locked ... < 1416742790 305965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: yes < 1416742796 33907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my funge-98 interpreter < 1416742796 177166 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mroman.ch/cgi/cgitest.slisp?name=eso < 1416742803 395190 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have the interpreter executable though < 1416742985 505311 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1416743030 488377 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: Do you remember of details? How does it work? < 1416743394 708303 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Dimly. The basic gist was that the shopkeeper had a target price range, and a mood score, and there were various threshholds where either an offer would be accepted or refused, or even that he would get offended and throw you out. < 1416744163 63205 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fromroman XXIV < 1416744164 468538 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 < 1416744195 727052 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fromroman XIX < 1416744196 672357 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: Is that all? < 1416744197 153576 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 < 1416744282 27694 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's the basic idea, but it's still more than I've ever seen in a commercial game (there's probably some clever roguelike with a better one I've never heard of though, there usually is) < 1416744623 518347 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1416744993 300685 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean how do these target price range, mood score, thresholds, offended, etc working? < 1416745146 194236 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the items all had standard prices, and used/sale price was computed as a randomized percentage of that, with min and max values relative to it and the shopkeeper's mood score. < 1416745181 671396 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mood itself was I think randomized, and an ablative value almost like hit points: offend him enough and he'd tell you to piss off. < 1416745208 747290 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Offending" basically meant asking too much or too little at the off. < 1416745233 195758 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there was a strategy to it; you could work the shopkeeper down lower in steps than you could with a flat offer. < 1416745353 795058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some version of angband had something like that, maybe. < 1416745398 686019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I'm not sure the shop interface should be a particularly trivial kind of combat :p < 1416745453 928686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I'm particularly prone to being annoyed by things like that) < 1416745515 611543 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was semi-optional, you could always just accept the offer when selling, and it only applied to used purchases (new stuff was fixed price). Also, it was otherwise a pretty simple text game of 'kill stuff, level, loot', so in context it was a nice added feature. < 1416745563 252967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I just get annoyed by tradeoffs of "I'm doing worse than I could have been if I had the patience to play this subgame for the billionth time" easily :p < 1416745640 230872 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fair point, yeah. < 1416745717 35215 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly in something that wasn't essentially Recettear, it could be annoying. For me, I was always annoyed with games with 'barter systems' that weren't: Fallout's was like this, it wasn't really any kind of bartering because everything was fixed price and you were lucky if you could deviate even a single cap in your offer. < 1416745934 87695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1416745946 958318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm boring; I'm happy with shops-as-vending-machines. < 1416748231 226812 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA5F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1416748283 89404 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-97.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1416748317 248890 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-97.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1416748317 391970 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1416748730 435716 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's definitely not a feature I'd want to have to use every time (this is actually probably why I got bored with Recettear) for sure. < 1416750670 174566 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416751140 36442 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. ECMA BASIC doesn't even *have* mid$ and instr$. < 1416751615 884430 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1416751667 607576 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1416751725 172220 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBasic doesn't have "INSTR$" either, the function's called "INSTR" (since the result is a number). < 1416751761 776194 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcanello! there's an ECMA sanctified version of BASIC? < 1416751770 369124 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiziello! < 1416752969 870652 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right. MY bad there. < 1416753014 661348 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Yes. ECMA-116: http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST-WITHDRAWN/ECMA-116,%201st%20edition,%20June%201986.pdf (warning, v. large file) < 1416753129 434034 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also ECMA-55 for "Minimal BASIC" as well. < 1416753143 879649 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even found a modern compiler for ECMA-55. < 1416753415 964449 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://buraphakit.sourceforge.net/BASIC.shtml < 1416756031 246245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416756167 701579 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1416756190 159035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1416756190 307356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1416756509 797984 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416756668 753404 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: TILED CHICKEN < 1416757705 894472 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I normalize a string with the unicode CNF resp DNF normalizations, at most how many times longer can it become in UTF-16 code units? < 1416757834 201442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416757840 36200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416758007 445566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with the topic/ < 1416758152 830493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Visual Studio support channel | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1416758157 846594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone made it inaccurate; fixed < 1416758175 355725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what incident prompted the topic change in the first place? < 1416758212 468037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone came in looking for visual studio support < 1416758217 576668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the topic < 1416758227 902111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hypothesise that this will no longer happen now that the topic mentions visual studio < 1416758254 849104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't have been my "attempting to install Visual Studio lead to me needing to reformat the Windows and boot partition, then spend a few hours figuring out how to reinstall Ubuntu's bootloader after a boot partition reformat" < 1416758255 348336 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zipkouzsvimnwwdl JOIN :#esoteric < 1416758277 896983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait, what was the old topic pre-mentioning-VS? < 1416758292 538489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about being the black hole of programming madness < 1416758302 587952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: somehow that actually sounds on-topic < 1416758329 244754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in favour of the topic being ontopic < 1416758386 965699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean your problem < 1416758399 584694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something can't be on itself, anyway < 1416758464 57607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, my problem < 1416758466 954570 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the topic on-topic by definition? < 1416758472 852870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I considered it ontopic (both the current topic, and the /actual/ topic) < 1416758483 950389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I mentioned it in here < 1416758498 136025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, I have a mathematical problem < 1416758554 645713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have partial information about the output of an LCRNG (i.e. there is a sequence of numbers defined as r[i+1] = (r[i] * m + s) % x); specifically, for some subset of i, I know whether or not r[i+1] is greater than r[i] < 1416758568 932091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to go from this, to discovering the individual r[i] value < 1416758590 732105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in both the situation where I know what m/s/x are, and the situation where I don't < 1416758717 520147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really sure how to start, though < 1416758747 736417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1416759073 428012 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41114&oldid=40795 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+431) 10/* summary */ added infobox < 1416759090 754747 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@50-23-113-251.revip2.marketstreetwifi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416760744 312614 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@50-23-113-251.revip2.marketstreetwifi.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416761560 859604 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416761719 739281 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416761722 415096 :scarf!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416761724 312226 :scarf!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1416761724 455255 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416761737 6012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1416761738 522516 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1416762399 245451 :MDream!~fyrc@pa-67-235-2-71.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1416763214 110455 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416763340 674429 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo . . - - "'" "'" "'" - - . . |rainwords < 1416763342 747520 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​09. 02. 06- 13- 04' 07' 08' 09- 02- 06. 13. < 1416763431 190302 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if the state space is small (ie. 32 or 48 bits) you can always try solving all possible matches by brute force < 1416763451 448732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could SAT/SMT solvers help with that problem? < 1416763498 4729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: possibly, but my experience with them isn't that good < 1416763700 485474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this sort of problem < 1416763712 404897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: I already do that with 32 bits, but I'm reaching a situation where I have a 64-bit internal state < 1416763715 292481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too large to bruteforce < 1416763723 324141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet this is miles from cryptosecure, it should be reversible < 1416763907 227701 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah, wouldnt surprise me at all, but i have no idea how to reverse it < 1416763954 941334 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-2-71.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the next obvious thing over just bruteforcing all of it would be to look for ways to eliminate possibilities and bruteforcing the rest. < 1416764070 42529 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: any info about the initial seed? if they're using lcrng they might also be seeding with time or pid or somethign silly < 1416764083 398891 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might limit your search space greatly < 1416764099 740730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: actually, my situation is that two RNGs are being seeded from the same seed < 1416764107 355525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one's pretty secure, the other is an LCRNG < 1416764116 946776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the seeding method itself is pretty secure < 1416764132 144792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to figure out the sequence of the secure RNG by observing the output from the insecure one < 1416764145 785506 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh.. so you want to solve the original seed < 1416764165 206515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1416764179 975434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the way to do that is to find out the insecure RNG's current seed < 1416764189 263002 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're using a 64-bit lcrng? thats pretty unusual. < 1416764192 400461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run it backwards, trying progressive seeds as the secure RNG seed until one of them works < 1416764196 334246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it is pretty unusual < 1416764567 290102 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you looked at all pairs R2 > R1 * m + n for some small space to try to build an intuition? < 1416764585 818145 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it make bands in the state space? < 1416764632 722860 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be neat if you could quantify the bands and at each step cut your search space in half < 1416764665 914771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've looked at some things like that < 1416764685 442631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you get a bunch of repeating patterns, but the actual pattern you get depends on the size of R1 < 1416764713 776423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, for low R1, R2 is basically always higher < 1416764747 237499 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe then if you can find large sequences of > > > > > it would isolate a small value of R < 1416764747 837797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1416764755 51287 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can brute force that small value < 1416764803 203371 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that would only give you a few bits though.. probability of finding a very long seq of > > > > would be low < 1416764857 431857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: the problem is, I don't have /all/ the > < representations < 1416764858 919235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a subset < 1416764866 652210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the values are similar, I'm unlikely to be able to tell which one's larger < 1416764877 670210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long > > > > > sequences, even though they often exist, are unlikely to be in the source data < 1416764882 886011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I just get a ? < 1416764932 234131 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1416765761 430903 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416765822 497799 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1416765828 102085 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1416765843 970058 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. I've reached the dreaded question: 0-indexed or 1-indexed. < 1416765983 458017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1416765992 213457 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1416766024 578852 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read your djikstra today < 1416766131 121802 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1416766206 472804 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Djikstra wasn'texactly a BASIC fan ... < 1416766348 912584 :tlewkow_!~tlewkow@50.23.115.122-static.reverse.softlayer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1416766435 567353 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ubuntu has a setting where trying to upgrade your release doesn't actually check for new releases, and you're not informed of this. awesome. < 1416766438 204792 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can find some biases in the bits or R1 when R2 > R1 ? < 1416766535 391835 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html < 1416766667 56309 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what i was thinking of. < 1416766674 618465 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's incredibly, incredibly anal, but pretty solid. < 1416766789 501681 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-97.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1416766815 251625 :nyuszika7h!nyuszika7h@cadoth.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416766826 754270 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-97.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1416766826 897722 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1416766892 708676 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1416766905 610551 :nyuszika7h_!nyuszika7h@cadoth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416767017 889902 :nyuszika7h_!nyuszika7h@cadoth.net NICK :nyuszika7h < 1416767036 39128 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looks like there might be some bias in one of the high bits: http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/machine/bias.py < 1416767041 533350 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :significant bias < 1416767064 259789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: when next(x) > x, it's likely that x is quite small < 1416767088 467491 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not that likely < 1416767090 89118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my problem's more that I wonder if there's some mathematical way to get exact results < 1416767094 217699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by bruteforcing particular bytes < 1416767126 648714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get exact results with enough statistics < 1416767853 85195 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Should calling out of index be an error or false? ie, calling (index 5 lst) where lst is only 3 entries long, etc. < 1416767983 552349 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you find runs of >>>>> it greatly increases the chance that the original high bit was a zero < 1416768019 52064 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use that to prune your search space < 1416768040 696010 :tlewkow_!~tlewkow@50.23.115.122-static.reverse.softlayer.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416768124 827186 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 16-bit lcrng, there are no runs of 5 >'s starting with the high bit set. < 1416768168 406017 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i should say "for the 16-bit lcrng i'm playing with" :) < 1416768473 703149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, long runs would be unlikely < 1416769601 823932 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA5F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1416770195 722279 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah hah. I have written mid$. < 1416770400 289315 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1416770713 327575 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 2047rn1024.+f: < 1416770713 871683 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{5 1358} {4 1705} {4 618} {4 66} {3 1985} {3 1921} {3 1855} {3 1816} {3 1811} {3 1651} {3 1462} {3 1419} {3 1388} {3 1308} {3 1277} {3 1184} {3 1120} {3 1052} {3 1046} {3 1003} {3 865} {3 856} {3 787} {3 630} {3 322} {3 221} {3 205} {3 54} {3 6} {2 2041} < 1416770740 165722 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the year 1052 columbus sailed the ocean blue < 1416770746 848232 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 2047rn1024.+2047rz// < 1416770747 188058 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | ERROR: Unknown command: (//)! < 1416770747 331274 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 7 < 1416770750 456304 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 2047rn1024.+2047rz\\ < 1416770750 734174 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! < 1416770753 615605 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 2047rn1024.+2047rz\\ < 1416770754 93802 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! < 1416770756 192870 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :pf < 1416770767 703025 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 1023rn1024.+1023rz\\ < 1416770768 108069 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {733 22 135 636 444 750 382 614 438 779 961 434 156 509 779 302 168 701 763 623 856 982 856 335 601 816 205 822 251 322 156 225 516 618 949 1004 535 522 678 446 623 835 6 636 835 564 630 38 800 133 900 438 160 428 822 761 20 64 151 831 435 1017 247 520 9 4 < 1416770772 825996 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 1023rn1024.+1023rz\\L[ < 1416770773 257673 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 364 < 1416771015 303260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416771024 228677 :ais523!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416771024 743771 :ais523!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1416771024 886915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416771130 745130 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416771390 194075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1416772070 686543 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416772086 575576 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416772195 251720 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1416772497 320575 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1416774406 296202 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1416774764 264996 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:3var14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41115&oldid=39178 5* 03Olls 5* (+197) 10/* Interpreter? */ < 1416774942 238304 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: restart < 1416775123 963880 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1416775127 641793 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416775218 250569 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1416775414 182712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416775415 46399 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1416775425 333718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416775490 294257 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416775506 315547 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1416775513 360935 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416775929 999169 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1416776017 651685 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: trying yet more else < 1416776039 547682 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-51.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1416776085 178932 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416776987 997943 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA287.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1416777097 416172 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1416777228 309791 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416778519 50917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416778522 113779 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416778524 847048 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1416778524 991062 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416778844 753289 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416778852 833512 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416779632 378108 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh JOIN :#esoteric < 1416779653 626799 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do i keep disconnecting < 1416779690 763378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like it if Professor Oak can become a playable character in Smash Brothers game? < 1416779703 930521 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1416779705 915159 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: I don't know? Possibly a problem with internet sometimes I have a problem too a bit < 1416779708 663438 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what he could do < 1416779720 931279 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: he actually has battle data programmed in in gen 1 < 1416779723 741387 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throw pokeballs like a gattling gun < 1416779729 779681 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no non-glitch way to cause it to be used < 1416779735 343149 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could see him as an assist trophy < 1416779747 47382 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Yes I know and I managed to vs him too < 1416779772 959223 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1416779779 271359 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can use the program < 1416779814 728844 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I would think, you can sometimes throw a pokeball after a few seconds and that in addition, if you are using a separate display (such as Wii U gamepad) that it will tell you what pokemon is found in each pokeball on the screen too, and everyone else does not see that information until the pokeball is opened! < 1416779845 810922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: What program? < 1416779857 412614 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1416779872 707936 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use the battle data < 1416779890 408040 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you forcably seperated it from the cartridge < 1416779893 104037 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK that's what you meant. < 1416779902 242096 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever < 1416779910 137233 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways smash 4 < 1416779939 390983 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother has the newest Smash Brothers game on Wii U and Nintendo 3DS < 1416779947 959936 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I played this game too < 1416779954 253552 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wii u < 1416779957 390524 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want < 1416779972 838051 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because new legend of zelda game 2015 < 1416779973 819073 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that didn't come out until Friday? < 1416779987 98836 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Came out last week i think < 1416779995 98170 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, maybe Europe is later < 1416779997 927883 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing you still cannot do though even in the newest one is to set the self-destruct to -1.5 instead of only 0 and -1 and -2 < 1416780002 804307 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna get the 3DS version soon < 1416780008 726971 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idk why it would be < 1416780016 974574 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes, translation issues < 1416780022 734743 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both me and my brother want to be able to set self-destruct points to -1.5 < 1416780030 27247 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, can you adjust all the other scores to make it effectively the same < 1416780031 373967 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it goes Japan - China - Europe - Americas < 1416780053 768772 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or < that way on a map < 1416780065 710003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You could manually calculate the score I suppose if you like to; it doesn't allow you to otherwise adjust it. < 1416780076 620102 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However there is no function to disable sudden-death mode. < 1416780106 180281 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes, maps aren't really relevant to this sort of thing any more, not for a few decades < 1416780115 134261 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it's translation issues, at least entirely... < 1416780115 278042 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moops < 1416780116 249005 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again a function both of us wanted to have < 1416780136 31686 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if so why make Australia take until the 29th? < 1416780141 644057 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Japan until the 6th? < 1416780142 49946 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, that's a point < 1416780150 839474 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, Japan is the *last* country getting it) < 1416780166 476733 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1416780174 196283 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :lawspeaker < 1416780181 979284 :lawspeaker!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1416780184 998933 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw < 1416780198 538915 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ive been wondering why is Australia so hot < 1416780208 537623 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :If its near the south pole < 1416780221 912584 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... not especially. < 1416780224 651408 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes, it's closer to the equator than the UK is < 1416780229 519589 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm < 1416780231 279799 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :By quite some measure < 1416780241 111138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try looking at a globe rather than a map :p < 1416780256 972683 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goes to buy one < 1416780260 165925 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC Northern Australia is literally in the tropics. < 1416780273 838501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember to by a new cpu core while you're at it < 1416780278 608075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing they could have done but don't is to implement custom omega stages, which involves selecting music, graphics, and whether or not you can go underneath the platform. It isn't particularly important though. < 1416780279 382172 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, nobody lives in northern australia < 1416780291 540628 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about as close to the equator as India is < 1416780298 452135 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smash 4 level creator < 1416780314 181550 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is great < 1416780335 327717 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yep. And nearly all of the country is in the subtropics. < 1416780363 568291 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and your giant galloping wolf spiders < 1416780395 910101 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesnt the worlds deadliest snake live there? < 1416780398 65453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, it's pretty much entirely in the latitudes where simple sun exposure is likely to make things at least moderately hot. < 1416780412 626174 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the deadliest animals in Australia, statistically, are horses < 1416780430 803992 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whut < 1416780443 944947 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :The great emu war < 1416780451 731434 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, almost all of the continent is a desert, so there's that too. < 1416780479 902791 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe the emu's won < 1416780523 143938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understandably the population's concentrated around the not-desert bits. < 1416780528 548034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There also is not the mode to use the time limit corresponding to the stage which is selected. < 1416780550 309807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This would only be applicable for some stages though.) < 1416780596 761959 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: why did they have a war? < 1416780640 798768 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1416780674 548673 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways i actually do have food in my house and this time its not coffee based < 1416780715 909943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Anyways i actually do have food in my house and this time its not coffee based < 1416780717 470150 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1223) Anyways i actually do have food in my house and this time its not coffee based < 1416780766 704219 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coffee cake? < 1416780771 443211 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's coffee-based < 1416781214 484907 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-51.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416781226 535420 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I start eating a lot of sugary snacks, but I still eat the other foods I was eating before (so it's not taking the place of anything else), and I'm not close to being overweight, is that still bad? < 1416781310 186766 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going with no < 1416781313 368355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't understand why you come here for this sort of advice < 1416781374 735210 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel was just talking about food >.> < 1416781393 915506 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@50-23-113-234.revip2.marketstreetwifi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1416781478 46488 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :food is great < 1416781488 113395 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :food is the thing i like to eat the most < 1416781614 344904 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname, I prefer to eat business cards < 1416781620 369097 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I find them very filling < 1416781625 780550 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well < 1416781733 854952 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :We werent talking about food < 1416781746 485551 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwyvxyiyobkcfprh PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were talking about how everything is edible < 1416781846 608195 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the notion of getting diabetes type 2 from too much sugar is a myth? < 1416782039 660922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I dare ask what you're planning < 1416782119 169653 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought a box of boxes of fruit by the foot recently < 1416782130 422697 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They taste so good. I've been eating about a box a day < 1416783196 390415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1416783274 748078 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if any SQL-based RPG engines exist, or do I have to write one? < 1416783305 17269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense elliott didn't like my dark humor < 1416783356 108031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like ais523 didn't < 1416783370 830382 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1416783384 547479 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I just asked what the topic was about < 1416783388 317815 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I missed the incident that caused it < 1416783581 98106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i was going to say that both solutions to http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Dominosa+Small were too large to be solving the problem properly, but i think they're actually too large to be using compression. < 1416783760 867801 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1416783991 758457 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1416784052 490004 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I miss about an incident that callforjudgement missed? < 1416784120 446894 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1416784139 861280 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a cheat solution would be much smaller than that < 1416784149 416891 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :selecting randomly between three fixed strings isn't hard in most languages < 1416784153 695779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, i'm writing a trivial one < 1416784440 810769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1416784491 78438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bah < 1416784526 334459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas i'm too lazy to write a non-cheating solution < 1416784530 115263 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : Apparently the notion of getting diabetes type 2 from too much sugar is a myth? < 1416784540 262028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the common notion is getting it from obesity, not sugar per se < 1416784624 524167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf are the neighbors making noise after midnight < 1416784666 894431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just loud talking, but still) < 1416784678 899456 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they students? < 1416784691 121829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely < 1416784697 260848 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you're awake after midnight, why shouldn't they be? < 1416784705 410376 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if they're being very noisy, :( < 1416784709 961131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm _awake_. i'm not noisy. < 1416784719 839633 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.67.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416784876 862193 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to become obese without noticing? < 1416784891 819922 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking thin but being medically obese? < 1416784893 783007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone can manage it... < 1416784925 299646 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416784992 992086 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe if you invent a form of fat that contains neutronium < 1416785276 803902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"obesity" isn't a monolithic thing. < 1416785440 563691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is, if you look like a monolith you're definitely obese < 1416785745 777340 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1416785767 764577 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1416785859 930314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there appears to be a general _custom_ in norway about night silence after 11 pm before ordinary weekdays. but there's no actual written law that you can point to. < 1416785922 289921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and our house rules have no clock times in them < 1416786017 632545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my long parenthesized comment on anagolf weirds out the layout :( < 1416786264 615399 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@50-23-113-234.revip2.marketstreetwifi.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1416786508 292397 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@198.23.71.69-static.reverse.softlayer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1416786921 813384 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1416786939 543888 :vanila!~user@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric