< 1417132859 617874 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, what was that anagolf task again... < 1417132911 245059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(1/(1/0.30103-3)-3) < 1417132912 552798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9.40873786407741 < 1417132939 407577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(1/(1/(1/0.30103-3)-3)-9) < 1417132940 647682 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.446555819478985 < 1417132949 384980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(1/(1/(1/(1/0.30103-3)-3)-9)-2) < 1417132950 737294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.239361702119884 < 1417132965 444474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(1/(1/(1/(1/(1/(1/0.30103-3)-3)-9)-2)-2)-4) < 1417132966 737476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5.624999995706039 < 1417132978 187625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there it diverges < 1417133010 337520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(1/(1/(1/(1/(1/(1/0.30103-3)-3)-9)-2)-2)-4) :: Rational < 1417133011 466348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 45 % 8 < 1417133071 883573 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, A057755 < 1417133078 462065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(1/(1/(1/(1/(1/(1/0.30102-3)-3)-9)-2)-2)-4) :: Rational < 1417133079 515143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-265) % 1064 < 1417133152 781837 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1417133163 25760 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you changed a decimal digit < 1417133281 536953 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1417133298 494736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here I was hoping fizzie would take that bait too < 1417133307 310031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could, like, "measure" it or whatever < 1417133564 230534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ret is generally easier to predict than an arbitrary indirect jump. < 1417133629 483454 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt 3 < 1417133630 762103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.7320508075688772 < 1417133880 637499 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right, but it wouldn't have to be that way. It's because compilers know that using 'ret' for returning to some other point than where the previous "call" was comes at a stiff price. I'm sure they would happily take advantage of a cheap instruction that just happens to jump to the address on top of the stack, popping it. < 1417133953 404278 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stiff price being that no CPU will ever predict the target correctly. < 1417134008 393742 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, a cascade of similar failures further down the stack. < 1417134876 326129 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1417134891 903293 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1417134903 642895 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did anagolf accept a trailing space < 1417134922 778053 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was annoyingly anal about things like that < 1417134923 291669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not its job to correct your stupid mistakes < 1417134972 638729 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MNNBFSL14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41216&oldid=41202 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+96) 10include original Japanese < 1417135036 70611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: it is anal except at the very end of output < 1417135061 602761 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1417135398 536574 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417135426 40830 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07GridScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41217&oldid=41215 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+48) 10fmt < 1417136060 271789 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417136095 301890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1417136201 146131 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1417136211 402592 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07REGXY14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41218&oldid=7994 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+91) 10The link on C2 Wiki was bitrotted so include the right one here < 1417136851 270393 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx JOIN :#esoteric < 1417136858 824251 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Reg Xy14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41219 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+65) 10Add redirect < 1417136903 239477 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy Thank give < 1417137093 582049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy thank give to you too < 1417137149 52400 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im doing swell i guess < 1417137159 120647 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you elliott < 1417137176 940610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1417137185 455289 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1417137194 66934 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1417137198 295740 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1417137202 803748 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :If i may ask < 1417137301 99631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing I want to go into in #esoteric :p < 1417137353 819540 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :K i understand < 1417137365 507033 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :( < 1417137375 823503 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :§-§ < 1417137392 181669 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :These § why are they even added < 1417137407 611205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw c'mon, I'd give that answer tons, it's just not a common question in here :p < 1417137426 627388 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :simoleons? < 1417137465 313912 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, it's section mark if you're not a nerd like i am < 1417137576 832469 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07REBEL14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41220&oldid=41103 5* 03Kendfrey 5* (-11) 10Changed link to point to new site < 1417137646 6030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s acrobats < 1417137735 942752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: pikhq_: how are *you* on this merry thank give < 1417137740 29462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was just an excuse to say thank give again < 1417137784 617559 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm listening to I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue < 1417137801 63706 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no pants on and am playing Pokemon. < 1417137804 857617 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "fabulous". < 1417137910 486251 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1417137951 328660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which version? < 1417137964 535655 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha Sapphire. < 1417137978 729696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been sort-of considering getting that myself < 1417137982 795715 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too < 1417137994 141694 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too < 1417137997 814729 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if I should go for Alpha Sapphire or Omega Ruby though < 1417138001 279060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd need to buy a new console < 1417138004 125539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT ME < 1417138018 202577 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My impression is that it's where they actually put most of their work into, rather than XY. < 1417138022 765522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to tatham's puzzles < 1417138045 663367 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if I can justify getting OR/AS given how much (or little, rather) time I spent on X/Y < 1417138078 350364 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb both are exactly the same and are relativaly short only difference is the main villain and the new graphics < 1417138087 549461 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :+bug fix's < 1417138092 825323 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes, hence the hard decisions < 1417138101 586918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well they put most of the work into ORAS back when they were making Ruby/Sapphire < 1417138105 333695 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Team nerd or team bara < 1417138113 505891 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, true. < 1417138136 385692 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magma or what was the other one i only played ruby < 1417138138 574626 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why ORAS is where they threw a lot of gameplay tweaks. < 1417138165 677064 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! (should you ever answer while you're mexicaning.) < 1417138165 906020 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aqua < 1417138173 726368 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taquanelle! < 1417138176 645430 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had the new-rendering-engine thing for XY < 1417138180 125778 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah in the caves you cant traverse it by memory < 1417138190 517596 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to defeat the gym leader < 1417138199 771140 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and new engine overall, I guess < 1417138208 76227 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d < 1417138211 138517 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy < 1417138221 2835 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has greatly appreciated little details like "offering to teleport you instead of forced backtracking". < 1417138235 298864 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1417138257 599447 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, DexNav is glorious. < 1417138260 408106 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wife says Hi... i have to go eat family dinner < 1417138267 146855 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Byr < 1417138271 788197 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye* < 1417138279 223647 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like breeding Pokemon, only much less agonizing! < 1417138303 793913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is DexNav, anyway? < 1417138318 816864 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, if you've go Sapphire I shall get Omega Ruby! < 1417138338 439885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it managed to get onto Bulbapedia before they locked the site down due to hacking < 1417138344 731705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sapphire was my first pokemon game < 1417138352 230327 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah well ruby was mine < 1417138353 509282 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucker < 1417138355 464890 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fight me < 1417138361 232473 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emerald was mine, I'm young < 1417138368 340513 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a menu in the PokeNav that lets you see Pokemon in the route you're in. You can tap on one of them to find more of 'em... < 1417138369 846503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you like a lot older than me < 1417138373 746191 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gold was mine, I'm slightly less young < 1417138375 956082 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb is 33 < 1417138379 993955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant you < 1417138380 822594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's basically Habitat List from BW2, but prettier < 1417138386 681952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm actually just as old as old people now though < 1417138387 297639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was Blue < 1417138387 780079 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more. < 1417138389 645599 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, three yars maybe!! < 1417138391 911760 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :years < 1417138393 376226 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yars < 1417138404 548077 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm like 9 months older < 1417138405 69547 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i didn't get into pokemon like everyone i know did < 1417138413 937128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :More you encounter the Pokemon, the better the Pokemon you find with DexNav are. < 1417138416 621390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Habitat List is great, anyway < 1417138421 171946 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(permanently) < 1417138440 658349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what if you being born somehow metaphysically caused me to be conceived (per the hexham synchronicity) < 1417138444 728906 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you get decent odds of shiny Pokemon, of higher level, with egg moves, and 3+ maxed IVs. < 1417138461 712649 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy < 1417138485 698031 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07GridScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41221&oldid=41217 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (-63) 10/* 99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall */ < 1417138514 375184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my theory is that the Pokémon people decided there was no way they could stop RNG abuse, and decided to make it unnecessary < 1417138520 367589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, wild Pokémon with egg moves seems wrong to me < 1417138571 148002 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a much smaller list of moves than the full list of possible egg moves. < 1417138575 787416 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, somehow I doubt it < 1417138576 529971 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also chance of hidden ability. < 1417138591 828593 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hexham < 1417138593 591643 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico < 1417138607 482383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I'm upset at the "no illegal egg move combinations" < 1417138628 121030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm /not/ upset at hidden abilities becoming commonplace, the old way of treating them like event Pokémon drove me out of competitive for a year < 1417138635 455045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(until BW2 mostly fixed it using Hidden Hollows) < 1417138650 895307 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07GridScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41222&oldid=41221 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+0) 10/* 99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall */ < 1417138657 569978 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :XY had the Friend Safari making them more common, and additionally made them breadable. < 1417138664 805491 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*breedable < 1417138665 872577 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i support this typo < 1417138702 428377 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fun, XY + ORAS has all the non-event legendaries. < 1417138711 193183 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one of the event legendaries. < 1417138711 510010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: they always were breedable, from females < 1417138717 241040 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right, right. < 1417138722 80084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting the first female was very hard in BW and quite hard in B2W2, though < 1417138722 708531 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Males have a low chance now. < 1417138734 695706 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Deoxys is just in ORAS' postgame) < 1417138737 910246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some things they wanted to be rare were male only, e.g. eevee, starters < 1417138782 169981 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention XY made IV breeding much, much simpler. < 1417138797 215720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather liked the old method where you screwed around with the RNG < 1417138816 54966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I was recently doing random-IVs + flawless ditto to make the first round of parents < 1417138821 128002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them was quad-flawless (!) < 1417138826 869196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was just for Subway, so I'm using it < 1417138831 208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quad in useful stats, as well) < 1417138846 531875 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a flawless ditto? Wonderful. < 1417138867 573319 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats, it's possible to pass 5 of those to any Pokemon you want. < 1417138874 993210 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1417138882 127042 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Natures can also be inherited. < 1417138896 326212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: natures have been inheritable for absolutely ages < 1417138900 605880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the original R/S, I think < 1417138914 605008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, destiny knot doesn't determine a specific parent to pass IVs < 1417138936 555332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flawless ditto was one of my earlier RNGs < 1417138955 211615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first was an event arceus, which was a bad place to start in retrospect, it took 11 hours and I still didn't get Adamant) < 1417139027 596468 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :In black and white on route 3 a shiny zorarork or however you spell it has a chance of just appearing < 1417139029 990033 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gen VI changes Destiny Knot to being 5, and the EV items force a specific IV as well. < 1417139040 623201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doesn't determine whose IVs you get, but hey. < 1417139047 125592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: I don't believe you < 1417139049 823947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I can possibly prove it < 1417139065 490187 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, wasn't Zoroark B/W shiny-locked? < 1417139067 178519 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shuckle can have the highest damage though < 1417139090 692538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, can't happen < 1417139101 879789 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivial on XY though. < 1417139102 873940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: more to the point, Zoroark and Zorua never appear wild in any version, barring Memory Link < 1417139109 290546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, any gen 5 version < 1417139109 433814 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: XY. < 1417139113 581558 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that. < 1417139114 610471 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1417139128 652006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Zorua from Memory Link that can be bred into infinite zoroarks if necessary < 1417139130 55473 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm then idk where this zorarok came from < 1417139139 147276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(together with straight-30 IVs, just like other Memory Link mons) < 1417139143 334206 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says i met it on route thtee < 1417139155 132019 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AH, right. BW2 on, a parent holding an everstone will pass down its nature in particular. < 1417139155 486984 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three* < 1417139155 691511 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:a47a:639a:c7e4:31a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417139156 15633 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hacked 'mon traded on GTS? < 1417139161 122430 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the exact change. < 1417139165 286866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: most likely < 1417139175 498517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: before that, there's a 50% chance < 1417139181 917621 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1417139189 525929 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't pay much attention to breeding before XY. < 1417139224 941579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, right. It's stupid, but one other thing: Pokeballs are also inherited in gen VI. :) < 1417139269 91250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I did know that < 1417139270 951263 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :From which of the parents? < 1417139273 403191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mother < 1417139283 528583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luxury Balls are thus what you should use for catches, if you can < 1417139298 816828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: basically, AFAICT, Nintendo have decided to make legality checking as hard as possible < 1417139304 433388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hide the fact that they're rubbish at it < 1417139327 698698 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kinda glad about how they implemented it though... < 1417139340 763386 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This basically means that a cheater is not likely to have a huge advantage. < 1417139360 253077 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a lvl 100 shuckle if used correctly can deal the largest ammount of damage in the game < 1417139373 194491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: "used correctly" = "the opponent cooperates" < 1417139394 622472 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :No i think.its the moves and items you use < 1417139447 489532 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :The opponent doesnt have to do much you just need really high defense to stand against its atk until you get your move set out < 1417139459 430153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: is your opponent using Shedinja (maximum percent damage) / whatever it is for maximum raw damage? < 1417139475 785383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, the opponent also has to not switch while you're putting all the defence drops on them < 1417139483 987368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not just OHKO the shuckle when you power trick < 1417139517 660997 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, i'm just excited to learn that metronome can do metronome < 1417139530 197960 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric ::5 < 1417139534 6023 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine, does it recurse? < 1417139565 501130 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that Surfing on a Sharpedo is much faster now. < 1417139573 651735 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be fun if it could be made to recurse multiple times in a row with RNG abuse < 1417139586 177653 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Sharpedo specifically? < 1417139602 325538 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surf in general was sped up, and Sharpedo in particular goes twice as fast. < 1417139609 978751 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a malicious RNG it could recurse indefinitely < 1417139718 918062 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't played a pokemon in years, but i'm guessing yes because that sounds funny < 1417139783 191895 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:4f7:f48d:5377:1a86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417139845 4694 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the encounter rate in water was reduced a lot; yay. < 1417140160 264252 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been getting a lot of use out of his 3DS. < 1417140228 423031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I spent some of last night reverse-engineering the formula for what happens when you use Rock Smash in HGSS < 1417140389 634876 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417141422 116371 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1417141581 499984 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1417141596 842625 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1417141928 655570 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417141942 84432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1417141996 195113 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417142124 818933 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: APPLICATIVE CHICKEN < 1417142125 449751 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:4f7:f48d:5377:1a86 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417142143 327770 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:4f7:f48d:5377:1a86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417142740 23728 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :4DS :0 < 1417142741 858974 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jk < 1417142769 594586 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Alas, if you want ORAS you should probably wait for the New 3DS to come out. < 1417142809 376173 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :New? < 1417142811 480506 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, I'm a bit dubious about the whole 3DS thing in the first place, for the same reason I dislike the DSi < 1417142815 725022 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you mean < 1417142818 763730 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo, in a typical show of being-Nintendo, managed to make a new DS model only come out along with a new Pokemon game in Japan. < 1417142825 965438 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: That's what it's called, the New 3DS. < 1417142830 899528 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1417142835 151341 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1417142839 463684 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :And does it do? new stuff < 1417142839 785639 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Unlike the DSi, it's a rather notable upgrade in hardware. < 1417142859 834118 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: And there's, y'know, games worthwhile on it. < 1417142886 183647 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1417142891 337502 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: Faster CPU, has a second analog stick, has face tracking so that the 3D sucks less. < 1417142893 428831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh, tons < 1417142898 506408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more worried about things like streetpass < 1417142900 5645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and play coins < 1417142916 426361 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are only ever used in fairly trivial ways by games. < 1417142916 843054 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok whats the second analog stick do? < 1417142930 151565 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it equivalent to the "circle pad"? < 1417142937 421506 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im perfectly content with the DS i have < 1417142937 565256 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: It's more an analog nub. < 1417142956 726437 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would they make a new one why not a new system in general < 1417142957 25249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's presented as a second stick to games coded to read it, like Smash Bros. < 1417142989 259887 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also works for games that used the circle pad addon. < 1417142992 342359 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the wii U is very slick < 1417143009 671468 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially all these games they pumped out this yesr < 1417143014 810212 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Year* < 1417143025 887145 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the most notable use of Streetpass in any 3DS game I'm aware of is the Streetpass Plaza games which come on the system. < 1417143039 711091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I delete or otherwise get rid of them? < 1417143043 387792 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's otherwise a trivial, very minor feature that is 100% ignorable if you don't care about it. < 1417143048 601889 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's part of the firmware. < 1417143071 777643 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cant jailbreak it? < 1417143076 330925 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, it won't streetpass *at all* unless you go in and set it to. < 1417143101 155850 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically literally everything that does streetpass asks you if you want to enable streetpass functionality for the game. < 1417143119 841657 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Majoras mask remake though < 1417143120 964812 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you can go into the system settings later and undo it) < 1417143133 321391 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wii u finally has its smash bros < 1417143139 949031 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeh < 1417143176 464221 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo is making every one hyped up for their latest installation to the LoZ series in 2015 < 1417143178 520683 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also only streetpasses when the Wifi is on. < 1417143202 240156 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :If its as cartoony as the trailer i wont bother for it < 1417143210 377360 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least one thing nintendo understands: video games aren't movies < 1417143232 348376 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The play coin thing isn't able to be turned off, but it also matters even less. < 1417143247 567430 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Any other concerns? < 1417143263 88282 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whats the point of the puzzles < 1417143308 81505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: the reason I didn't impulse-buy one a while back is that apparently they don't come with chargers in the EU < 1417143314 885728 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just the 3DS XL. < 1417143322 301797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the regular-size one does have a charger? < 1417143322 444981 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :THough I don't know *why*. < 1417143325 691438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how confusing < 1417143336 791029 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw i bought my 3ds this June and still havent figured.it all out < 1417143346 899386 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat ignore the . < 1417143376 394318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"figuredit"? < 1417143389 132376 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the same charger as the DSi,FWIW. < 1417143389 275244 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :The XL has a charger or am i reading that wrong < 1417143397 393781 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figured it out < 1417143404 10525 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: The US 3DS XL is the only one that comes with a charger. < 1417143410 764039 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1417143410 937677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1417143414 732802 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1417143428 981129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't have a DSi, though < 1417143431 202784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the original is better < 1417143432 701067 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise the US New 3DS will be the only one that comes with a charger. < 1417143439 707505 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, agreed. < 1417143449 25033 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 3DS and an original DS. :) < 1417143463 665308 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :? why does the Us only have chargers < 1417143468 946054 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: FUck if I know. < 1417143472 652458 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many game designers see what they're doing as building narratives and stories and whatever < 1417143476 200406 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the 3DS makes the DSi literally pointless. < 1417143476 344295 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that < 1417143482 601996 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :games are not movies < 1417143485 976959 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing the DSi does that the 3DS does not. < 1417143515 523943 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :LoZ is very good with its time travel sequences that if thought about to long hurt < 1417143515 780654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I agree games are not supposed to be movies; many games have too many cutscenes! < 1417143534 38084 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though what the DSi does that the DS does not is, well, hardly anything. :) < 1417143550 978964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what the DSi does that the DS does not is why I don't like the DSi, though < 1417143552 558380 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the most notable is that some games, like BW, can use WPA. < 1417143553 67412 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo has short cutscenes that get straight to the point but still set a story < 1417143555 614798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like the console having its own memory < 1417143561 723242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and accepting downloads < 1417143566 280819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not what I want from a games console at all < 1417143577 648192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: I take it you've never played Pokémon Mystery Dungeon < 1417143583 259325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has cutscenes long enough that they have multiple save points in < 1417143585 798475 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nop < 1417143590 715133 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The 3DS only has its own memory for DSi compat though; uses an SD card for storage otherwise. < 1417143590 873116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, flashbacks to earlier in the same cutscene < 1417143604 766940 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it works just fine without an SD card, though downloads won't work then) < 1417143606 289086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with just storing things on the cartridge? < 1417143611 126764 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds awful < 1417143611 351113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to prefer just text windows that you can read at your own speed (or skip if you prefer) rather than having a lot of video cutscenes and stuff < 1417143619 717701 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that 3DS carts *do* save on the cartridge. < 1417143655 748389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also since i cannot access the IRC because of some weird issue all i know is that im going to be a detrament to this community" < 1417143660 241095 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo does put the skip option in for some games and all games have the manual text skip in a cutscene < 1417143670 410332 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SD card is used for downloaded games, pictures taken with the camera app, and game patches. < 1417143676 448378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, patches < 1417143679 417763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XY needed several of those < 1417143692 375354 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think save game should be stored in a memory card (such as CF cards), rather than in the console or in the cartridge (although it can be a cartridge that is also a memory card; of course a DVD or CD will be read-only though) < 1417143698 381096 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Petch fron Texas < 1417143708 287911 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :From* < 1417143726 555101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pokémon don't like people copying saves because you can clone Pokémon that way < 1417143737 402122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably the saves are locked to the SD card somehow, for downloaded versions < 1417143748 142333 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have to buy the SD card in other countrys seperately from the console < 1417143768 487163 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes with inside of it already < 1417143779 332425 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :Countries* < 1417143806 57146 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear im having a brain fart < 1417143863 809721 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so that's how they do it. The 3DS on-board storage is accessible to games... < 1417143874 518447 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pokemon stores a small key on the console. < 1417143884 960784 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.118 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1417143885 316468 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changing key each time it saves. < 1417143894 598520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for downloads, presumably < 1417143899 290199 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1417143900 8469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you can move the cart between consoles < 1417143903 781529 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can. < 1417143910 202011 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417143948 495601 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that they're using generic infrastructure for downloads there. < 1417143974 638463 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, the story of half life 2 is about aliens taking over. In practice, half life 2 is about the story of a mute repeatedly launching filing cabinets at people’s heads. < 1417143976 665835 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just like on the Wii, downloads are console-specific) < 1417144018 812154 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.118 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1417144023 457846 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FWIW, I've even tested that. < 1417144040 676060 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a matter of taking my AS cart and putting it in my girlfriend's 3DS. < 1417144041 422552 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417144055 536090 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1417144097 243099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this rate, we're going to have to prove the Pokémon video game TC so that it's ontopic < 1417144107 683530 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :been done < 1417144128 894162 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Gen I and II are TC. < 1417144129 901200 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.1895 i find it hard to believe you haven't seen it, though, so maybe you mean something else? < 1417144137 809348 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... by accident < 1417144148 895028 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, that's complexity not computation < 1417144151 88655 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo whatever < 1417144164 452798 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gen I and II can be made to execute arbitrary code. :) < 1417144169 554368 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hax < 1417144202 423204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: oh, I have seen that, and realised what it was as soon as I saw the existence of the link < 1417144204 602507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just forgot about it < 1417144210 39489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, that's technically PSPACE-complete) < 1417144213 25871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Gen III's very close, too < 1417144221 893607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see what people do with the Pomeg Glitch < 1417144233 478411 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's not actually arbitrary, but there's a decent bit of PEEK and POKE available with that one. < 1417144238 992801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have! < 1417144263 764030 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is particularly fond of Pokemon glitched speedrunning < 1417144275 651367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pomeg_glitch#Access_Pok.C3.A9mon_beyond_slot_6 < 1417144286 280490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a small step from there to completely screwing up memory < 1417144290 233393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you already have a buffer overflow < 1417144305 759356 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It's not quite there but it's really close. < 1417144336 420158 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And quite entertaining for speedrunning. < 1417144360 454045 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eee hehehehehe. < 1417144406 214234 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas. I want to eat. I do not want to cook. I don't have leftovers. It is Thanksgiving. < 1417144409 217331 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What am I to do. < 1417144443 788454 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably keep watching MST3K. < 1417144543 920384 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have a customizable string split function. Go-go gadget easy parsing. < 1417144546 311772 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a slight bug though. When two delimiters get stuck next to each other you wind up with a little null string in the middle. < 1417144583 353814 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a gzip util that sucks less than standard, to go along with a zlib that sucks less than standard. < 1417144588 706267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be intentional, it's what you'd intuitively expect given what splitting does < 1417144638 543591 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity the zlib API sucks. < 1417144656 945172 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah. I think it's unavoidable given my algo, and it's easily filter'd for. < 1417144690 942907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: sucks less howso? < 1417144710 851284 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, for starters it's significantly smaller. < 1417144735 195223 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it actually uses zlib instead of having its own code for it forked from an early version of infozip. < 1417144745 350386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, gzip doesn't use zlib? < 1417144748 787308 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope! < 1417144806 298261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this because GNU or something < 1417144811 752152 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotta say though, 4am is a really shitty time to finally figure out how to write your function ... < 1417144824 653345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully it's only 3 am < 1417144827 457991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it predates zlib actually. < 1417144837 281528 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes it does. < 1417144860 300237 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it's 5:19 here, but it was 4 when I woke with a horrible cramp and then couldn't sleep because my brain chose *that moment* to solve my funciton. < 1417144889 801123 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1417144920 79561 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The opposite-endianness of zlib vs. PNG makes me even more upset now. < 1417144926 414801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zlib was invented for the sole purpose of PNG. < 1417144965 163872 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascinating < 1417145022 459792 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impressive that GNU hello has 184 lines < 1417145040 56424 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also took me longer because my comments didn't accurately describe what left$ and right$ do, and I'm considering changing what they do to be something more useful. It really seems like they should take the left or right half from a pivot index, rather than taking X from left or right. The latter seems less useful. < 1417145042 399242 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : whatare their respective endianness? < 1417145050 622907 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's impressive? defibrillators < 1417145052 169804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: note that GNU hello exists as a sandbox for people to practice doing development correctly on < 1417145058 216483 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just think about it. who came up with that? how did they /test/ it < 1417145066 133940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see the Debian packaging for GNU hello, it's just as overengineered for the same reason < 1417145072 767683 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh really? < 1417145074 724545 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehehe < 1417145093 894385 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The primary purpose of GNU Hello is to demonstrate how to write other programs that do these things; it serves as a model for GNU coding standards and GNU maintainer practices." < 1417145096 897228 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooooo < 1417145116 288493 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNG uses big-endian for everything. < 1417145126 284605 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zlib uses little-endian for its header. < 1417145143 292253 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one came first? < 1417145153 804185 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither. < 1417145172 587052 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I find it more amazing that it still can't read mail. < 1417145181 6898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I thought it actually could < 1417145185 687992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least check it < 1417145188 619191 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zlib was the compression portion of the PNG reference implementation. < 1417145255 795293 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They literally sat down and decided "it'll be big endian here and little endian here". < 1417145258 818134 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVI is big-endian, Z-machine is almost always big-endian (no small-endian files exist), Knuth's MMIX instruction set is big-endian, etc. A lot of DOS programs use file formats with small-endian (since a PC uses small-endian natively). < 1417145288 391511 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also programs that were originally designed for DOS tend to use small-endian even if they are now ported to other systems. < 1417145316 253583 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't most architectures that started 8 bits ended up little endian? < 1417145330 195879 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 6502 if I'm not mistaken < 1417145370 261206 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to figure where the cultural divide comes from < 1417145374 940624 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, yes it could. http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hello.git/commit/?id=1a962e1e873d382c376921ef41ad234bd1bf4339 < 1417145411 348853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how dare they?! that feature is important to me! < 1417145460 847059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice "portable" alloca implementation < 1417145505 368902 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Historically, byte order distinction was born out of the mainframe vs. microprocessor approach.[dubious – discuss] Until the 1970s virtually all processors were big-endian." < 1417145514 717089 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What, in gnulib? < 1417145519 216086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in hello < 1417145521 283803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e's link < 1417145525 772150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably from gnulib < 1417145529 635776 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yeah. < 1417145545 497168 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, that's not from gnulib. < 1417145557 904333 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yow that's nasty. < 1417145566 893721 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good lord, the manual just keeps going < 1417145572 65198 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And incredibly GNU. < 1417145573 379714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has cray stuff lol < 1417145580 727128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't actually allocate on the stack? < 1417145590 426833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has linked lists. alloca using linked lists. why would you ever use this < 1417145613 583326 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifdef emacs... why < 1417145616 616393 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes 6502 is also small-endian < 1417145621 583291 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that's actually a property of Cray API. < 1417145635 205220 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this in emacs. oh no < 1417145636 770907 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, ABI < 1417145638 20320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic difference between big-endian and little-endian is what happens if you cast a pointer from pointing at one size of integer, to pointing at a smaller size < 1417145648 949460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems as though the Cray *stack* formed a linked list. < 1417145650 4346 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :static void find_stack_direction() < 1417145652 765512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :big-endian does an approximation scaled based on the full range; little-endian does modulo < 1417145653 811790 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, and for that purpose small-endian works better < 1417145662 962501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modulo is what's better if the value is actually within the range you want already < 1417145677 472957 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it uses "auto" < 1417145683 988587 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :little endian: x86, 6502, z80, dec alpha, atmel, vax < 1417145737 679155 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :big endian: 68k, superh, power, other atmel, system/360 < 1417145774 520975 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no. oh nooooo < 1417145797 675285 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: New POWER systems from IBM are little endian actually. < 1417145806 748809 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also systems with no endianness, although these are mostly VMs I suppose; in such a case the file format still has endianness although the runtime won't < 1417145812 665101 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ : oh? < 1417145824 240123 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ : it's like they changed the whole ABI? < 1417145831 209226 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For reasons I'm not entirely sure of they decided to switch endianness and ABI. < 1417145848 472519 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note though that POWER has always been a bi-endian architecture. < 1417145863 817262 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM is also bi-endian in theory < 1417145871 969587 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, it's little endian < 1417145876 980487 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it's not uncommon for a stack to be organized in a linked list of stack frames; this facilitates unrolling the stack (for debuggers, or possibly for delivering exceptions) < 1417145892 642431 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: a tad old-fashioned, perhaps < 1417145895 362457 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, POWER just had it be big endian in practice. < 1417145898 127183 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some file formats can use both big-endian and small-endian, such as TIFF and Z-machine (although small-endian was never used, and was removed in EZIP). Some formats use the host's endianness (and int size), such as OASYS. < 1417145904 311738 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my dumbass closure compiler < 1417145905 735679 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hooray" < 1417145917 951560 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though run-time switchable. < 1417145934 433845 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :switchable endian formats sound like a bad idea to me < 1417145958 521422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:33:32 It seems as though the Cray *stack* formed a linked list. < 1417145960 705382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of cool < 1417145968 519248 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want ppl to implement support for your format or do you want to drive them away? < 1417145979 400468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes it does, but, TIFF has that feature. Z-machine had it but they removed that feature, I suppose they then knew how bad it is. < 1417145985 256835 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaghetti stack < 1417146000 30863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: yeah < 1417146011 705688 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC TIFF did it as a weird compromise. < 1417146022 584701 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIFF is one of those "design by committee" standards. < 1417146061 931813 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( People argue about little ends and big ends when we all know that eggs naturally come to rest on their sides... ) < 1417146062 744852 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :committees... < 1417146081 784847 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the reason why C/C++ still has digraphs after all these years < 1417146093 876739 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's even simpler actually. < 1417146099 573921 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM *actually uses those*. < 1417146100 409047 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact endianness is named after a joke argument and people still argue over it is fucking incredible, i love it < 1417146119 838696 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight, chaps. < 1417146123 569193 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the EBCDIC code pages actually, really need it. < 1417146124 798714 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: If you put into a flat surface it will probably fall down and end on its side, but, it seems that some people can manage to make it to stand up straight! < 1417146126 765130 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Middle-endian best endian < 1417146134 215832 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the jerks won't adopt UTF-EBCDIC. < 1417146138 43133 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : ebcdic is also an abomination < 1417146148 547278 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or go out and shoot OS/360 in the head. < 1417146155 746140 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBCDIC is much worse than ASCII, I agree that much. < 1417146168 82417 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBCDIC also was a mistake at the time. < 1417146240 469857 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, literally: the IBM 360 mainframe was supposed to be ASCII or EBCDIC, with EBCDIC purely for compatibility with BCDIC data. But they couldn't fix bugs in the ASCII mode before they released.) < 1417146246 781376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: side-endian would be, like, 32-bit values a, b, c and d would be laid out in memory as the bytes abcdabcdabcdabcd? < 1417146270 407061 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: to be fair, the joke argument is the basis of a whole book. < 1417146280 859579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: NAh, it's the basis of a chapter. < 1417146315 668179 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lilliput is just a chapter in the Travels. < 1417146340 518497 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's the first one. < 1417146372 281741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one chapter of four, IIRC < 1417146376 90180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a quarter of a whole book? < 1417146400 31482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the chapter was about the way that ridiculous arguments can come about, so naming the computer science debate after the fictional one makes a ton of sense < 1417146408 158068 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all that series of things that have no purpose other than breaking c++ code when you port it < 1417146420 342081 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :endianness < 1417146441 348009 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :file system differences < 1417146452 186761 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing C on a mainframe is pretty hilarious, too, cause you do it inside a Unix environment. < 1417146459 489953 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Unix environment... with EBCDIC. < 1417146483 998940 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mixed endianness exists. ethernet encodes bytes in a little endian order, but the protocols above usually use big endian byte order. < 1417146509 62192 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: strange C99 features that aren't in C++ < 1417146516 873828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need to, don't write the program directly for the mainframe but for an emulator and run the emulator on the mainframe computer. < 1417146524 279376 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ... a 16 bit word would be transmitted as 89ABCDEF01234567 < 1417146531 64891 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Like Java. < 1417146565 13050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes; what I meant was more interleaving values with each other < 1417146565 311421 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like variable size stack arrays < 1417146568 19359 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm numbering bits mathematically; 0 is the bit with value 2^0) < 1417146569 404116 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That is a possibility, but it could even be Inferno, or a PC emulator, or whatever < 1417146585 945179 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a library < 1417146587 722097 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, but it's not interleaving that's happening here. < 1417146587 930538 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just naming Java because I know it's actually used on mainframes. < 1417146602 395583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but interleaving is closer to the egg on its side :) < 1417146602 552749 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect other emulators *might* actually need porting effort. < 1417146620 178937 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ to C linking insanity < 1417146622 539923 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Of course a still simpler way of doing it is to just require a Linux VM on their hypervisor. < 1417146638 913679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you can have your program to use ASCII even if it is a EBCDIC computer. < 1417146661 449858 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At which point the only weird thing is that the system console is still one of IBM's really weird terminals rather than a VT100 alike. < 1417146663 783637 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: How exactly does that work? I don't know a lot about that things < 1417146665 797121 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: /n vs /r/n < 1417146690 490976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably some format out there that genuinely does use the forward slashes :-) < 1417146712 131261 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not observable from the OS point of view; the kernel maps between that terminal and a VT100) < 1417146723 919704 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Easily. Linux just has a mainframe port. < 1417146735 187679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK < 1417146735 949931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: nice, that 2^0 thing is a good argument for little endian actually < 1417146768 225326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AFAICT the only reason the argument came about in the first place is historical accident with the way people write numbes < 1417146768 369015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you feel like it, and have oodles of money, you can just get an IBM mainframe and run nothing but Linux on it. < 1417146770 238217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*numbrers < 1417146787 291228 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more *realistic* use of this is to get an IBM mainframe, run the IBM hypervisor, and run a *ton* of Linux on it. < 1417146793 106714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: actually, ISTR the mainframes are cheaper if you only run Linux on them? < 1417146801 611146 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably. < 1417146816 794915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they have some way of slightly damaging the hardware so that it won't run the old mainframe OSes, but that Linux can worka round < 1417146819 440511 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417146819 997688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably a reversible one < 1417146823 628912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of specs do modern monolithic IBM mainframes have these days, anyway? < 1417146833 636562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make sure that you aren't cheating and trying to run something other than Linux on a Linux-only mainframe < 1417146840 919290 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mainframe OS stuff is an excuse to leach money from big old companies anyways. < 1417146857 660183 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ : so true < 1417146885 997950 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :old company cannot change due to inertia and people too close to retirement -> milk out $ < 1417146892 578822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: as I understand it, mainframes were once the only systems that could do what they do < 1417146894 924922 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 5.5GHz hex core CPUs, up to 101 such CPUs. < 1417146904 461382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nowadays, there's the reasonable alternative of "huge cluster of commodity hardware" < 1417146921 50866 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, certainly. < 1417146926 938070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: and oodles of RAM? < 1417146952 447417 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way back in the day if you were a big enough company to really need computing power, a mainframe was the economical option. < 1417146988 857625 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1417147005 135008 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much overlap does this have with cobol? < 1417147012 733721 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: 100%. < 1417147028 339025 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see :D < 1417147033 140514 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM mainframe users tend to run COBOL extensively. < 1417147044 30541 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1417147045 532979 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1417147048 884751 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1417147070 883979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did read somewhere that someone went to a store that sells computer, and asked for a mainframe computer because he/she wanted to learn to program in COBOL. < 1417147077 261154 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They offer 3TB of RAM. < 1417147087 169152 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now we have OpenCOBOL so you can run it on a PC and stuff too. < 1417147088 24851 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then 6.4TB of SSD for swap. < 1417147095 594056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :offer as in "up to" or as in what people actually get? nice, either way < 1417147108 623065 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "if you wish to pay for that much, this is what you get". < 1417147108 901195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's "only" ~30 gigabytes per CPU if you get all of them < 1417147125 257891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume completely maxed-out systems aren't the norm, though... < 1417147169 174324 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, they probably are. These big suckers are leased by CPU usage, not by system specs. < 1417147201 796761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, they're leased? < 1417147207 662916 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep! < 1417147215 508887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I knew that but forgot < 1417147218 615872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The smaller ones I think are sold. < 1417147220 920634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit me with some rates < 1417147309 70871 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like... a collection of everything I want to stay as far as possible from :3 < 1417147321 224034 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :buisiness computing etc < 1417147357 872233 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :$130,000 a month? < 1417147388 96610 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A brand new one can cost millions. < 1417147400 470104 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least now you don't have to do all that worse stuff like IBM mainframes with EBCDIC and so on; now you can use OpenCOBOL for common business oriented programming instead. < 1417147427 539624 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the kind of architecture that has decimal floating point too, right? :D < 1417147431 96078 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The small one we have at work is more like $80k total. < 1417147446 540689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course you needn't even use COBOL if you want to use other programming languages instead.) < 1417147454 698186 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we're not a mainframe shop, but unfortunately we have clients that are, so we need to have one to test against) < 1417147494 408946 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nesihorsrgpjwwkx JOIN :#esoteric < 1417147620 462733 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1417147652 287909 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably a good thing I find really weird computers entertaining. < 1417147674 14097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, when C-INTERCAL was first announced, it was sent to a community for people entertained by old and weird computers < 1417147680 346986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there weren't really esolang communities at the time < 1417147702 496952 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also a *really* good thing that the mainframe stuff is kinda just a portion of my job rather than the whole thing. < 1417147714 457251 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine I'd go mad if I did that all day every day. < 1417147755 99991 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, I had a java project once, and I was crawling up the curtains < 1417147793 811154 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for future reference: parsing COBOL with yacc is irritating, cause IBM doesn't believe in BNF) < 1417147816 707704 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM believes in nothing. < 1417147825 344454 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM believes in money. < 1417147834 532311 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the acquisition of wealth. < 1417147835 540436 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same difference. ;) < 1417147872 847315 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ibm is the original out of touch technocratic company < 1417147879 897893 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there is anything wrong with money, but, *love of* money is the root of all evil....... < 1417147885 280354 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: So true. < 1417147894 535485 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're like microsoft squared in that respect < 1417147909 814573 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1417147924 585337 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsing COBOL with yacc is irritating? Can you describe how exactly? < 1417147931 171517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google ibm company songbook < 1417147932 550044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/08/tripping-through-ibms-astonishingly-insane-1937-corporate-songbook/ < 1417147932 693309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Tripping through IBM’s astonishingly insane 1937 corporate songbook | Ars T... < 1417147935 304123 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in the beginning, it was basically IBM, and everyone else. IBM does things the IBM way. < 1417147955 813108 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, see, the syntax is just *not very well specified* and only *barely* context-free. < 1417147982 296283 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, tokenization is god damned insane. < 1417148005 196465 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It isn't specified? What? Can't you look at how OpenCOBOL does it? < 1417148024 240999 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's little details like "the first X and last Y columns are comments"... < 1417148040 268811 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Sounds like me trying to make sense of BASIC, *10. < 1417148056 674843 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those things can be done in the tokenizer before you tell the parser what to do < 1417148073 200608 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "if there's character X in this column, you concatenate it with the previous line except when you're in a string literal, in which case you skip to the next instance of '"' and then concatenate the rest of the line". < 1417148082 728269 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Unfortunately not really. < 1417148096 915473 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM COBOL is heavy on the non-standard extensions as well. < 1417148111 843150 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Maybe in yacc it is difficult, but did you try using Lemon? It is an alternative to yacc < 1417148114 559578 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is all the more amusing because standard COBOL died. < 1417148120 256955 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in my opinion, Lemon is much better < 1417148122 258697 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know about Lemon. < 1417148130 563690 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't care now, because It Is Done. < 1417148173 686583 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK, but maybe you can look at anyways in case it help later on for something. < 1417148200 320399 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemon uses no global variables so you can run multiple parsers at once, and the tokenizer calls the parser instead of the parser calling the tokenizer. < 1417148207 661406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lemon is also in public domain.) < 1417148209 477576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: how does that string literal thing work? < 1417148242 842733 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You basically specify that a line is a continuation of the previous line, right? < 1417148275 296155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: right, but where does the " come into it? < 1417148306 12416 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It looks like this: < 1417148328 16827 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcde 01 LINE IS "This is a line. It is being continued. < 1417148341 895913 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :edfgh- "This is a continuation". < 1417148349 503410 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :devil magic. < 1417148353 54062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1417148355 60966 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINE has "This is a line. It is being continued.This is a continuation" < 1417148363 515683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about edfgh- qqqqq"test" < 1417148370 609249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax error. < 1417148384 532656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine more spaces if that matters < 1417148393 292508 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The contents between the continuation marker and the quote delimiter have to be whitespace. < 1417148400 955445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any whitespace? :p < 1417148433 287915 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newline will terminate the line, so that won't work. < 1417148441 918227 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tab will work though. < 1417148462 678045 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As will vertical tab I think? < 1417148467 31092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it scan for the " just to let you indent continued strings? < 1417148473 16912 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1417148530 588711 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the continuation line madness is really necessary. All text outside of columns 8 to 72 are comments. < 1417148538 836465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...does LINE IS "test""foobar" even work? < 1417148544 325297 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1417148545 257418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1417148548 865792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'd be "test"foobar" lol < 1417148555 421274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a syntax < 1417148667 26576 :pikhq_!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty impressive in its own way, with how it manages to be so utterly unlike anything you're used to. < 1417148968 166534 :dts|feasting!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode NICK :dts < 1417149301 709408 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought a book on COBOL because I confused it with CORBA < 1417149392 879777 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kindof wondering what would be a good language for creating chiptune instruments < 1417149435 726998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends what kind of chiptune instruments, I think < 1417149457 551300 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also probably has to be as graphical as possible < 1417149479 724548 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since sound designers rarely want to deal with text < 1417149506 664613 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and text is a problem in most sound design/music production software anyways (DAWs) < 1417149513 857334 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I really don't know; I know stuff such as Pure Data exists < 1417149530 390118 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the host program will capture your keyboard events, which is bad) < 1417149554 89233 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the typical user wants to be presented choices, not guess which choices are valid < 1417149819 109158 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid JOIN :#esoteric < 1417149820 297739 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1417149832 311962 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluid < 1417149841 397024 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicycle fluid < 1417149860 42584 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1417150108 324795 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I wonder if anyone ever bought a book on Pascal because they confused it with Haskell < 1417150270 685621 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://web.archive.org/web/20041103230415/http://geeksden.sourceforge.net/geekywiki/REGXY < 1417150276 545805 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I copy this verbatim onto esowiki? < 1417150280 700185 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as "original specification" < 1417150307 298012 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :"utherwise" < 1417150350 501771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only public domain stuff can go on the wiki :/ < 1417150353 744408 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I want to write a modern implementation, what langauge should I use? < 1417150435 128837 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: I don't know? Possibly with Perl? It uses regular expressions. < 1417150453 632453 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill look into perl < 1417150469 86726 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Perl is a bit confusing though < 1417150474 542771 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417150569 443207 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how many times I hear the word 'statistics' it still sounds like 'sadistic' < 1417150608 570204 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadistically speaking, 1 in seven people are afflicted by this condition? < 1417151018 385782 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren : thos belies the fact that english is full of "T"s, "S"s, "D"s and "C"s :D < 1417151031 769176 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially t and s < 1417151121 254335 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TS... no! bad oren's brain! do not make that stand for anything! < 1417151193 457985 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can translate regexy into perl easily < 1417151214 689137 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lpaste.net/115247 < 1417151216 959994 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how < 1417151223 994542 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can wre write a regexy program to do this? < 1417151322 23773 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a slight problem is that labels in regexy may not be valid labels in perl < 1417151352 728892 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. and lavbels in regex are comuputed from the regex.. so this translation isn't complete < 1417151431 188467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: btw i put the updated link to zzo38's REGXY page on the esowiki < 1417151440 376637 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks a lot oerjan , i was going to do that < 1417151539 268898 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/regxy/adbinery.txt < 1417151545 957948 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actualy does this use computed labels or not? I think it does < 1417151554 158469 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was mistaken < 1417151623 929127 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:4f7:f48d:5377:1a86 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417151631 758823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren: tzatzikilly, this is a big problem hth < 1417151634 248345 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417151636 68839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417151643 854089 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1417151672 736881 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't looks computed label to me? < 1417151676 655584 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgjwgyaoqinimvvx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1417151681 200412 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, I misread the code < 1417151689 201094 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so RegXy doesn't support computed labels? < 1417151705 500129 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it woudl be nice if it didnt < 1417151772 727994 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1417151794 878060 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an infinite loop trying to convert adbinery to perl < 1417151840 392477 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lpaste.net/115248 < 1417151841 983855 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works now < 1417151884 672057 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like not supporting computed labels from how I can see? < 1417151890 559704 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok! < 1417151898 277547 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have to use /s modifer in perl < 1417151904 227354 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to treat multi line strings as a single string < 1417151911 259751 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a Visual Basic code and looks like not accepting computed labels. < 1417151912 732261 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can implement a regxy -> perl translation < 1417151999 826792 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy JOIN :#esoteric < 1417152014 979063 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an awful way to end thanksgiving ;-; < 1417152025 603861 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy thanksgiving < 1417152048 983339 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merry Easter to you too < 1417152070 238219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy birthday < 1417152139 9694 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose birthday is it? < 1417152146 943856 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways my wife is pregnant and i hate children this is awful < 1417152153 964096 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much thank give < 1417152228 83068 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cool < 1417152252 223509 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1417152259 470832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I believe that you have a wife < 1417152273 540416 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :K and? < 1417152303 15129 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is not in mood. < 1417152328 481997 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r u drunk? < 1417152333 136440 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you hate children < 1417152351 322724 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are loud sirens of pure malice < 1417152360 448395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you already have children < 1417152362 807661 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that a good thing? < 1417152366 272527 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1417152372 148752 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were one at one time < 1417152373 907685 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont want another one < 1417152387 427755 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my parents hated me < 1417152409 174846 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So try to do better than them < 1417152413 488190 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1417152416 562057 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft < 1417152431 226013 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 3 kids i think thats enough for life < 1417152464 90552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the time when I give Dulnes a warning for being offtopic? < 1417152477 508343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :offtopicness warnings in #esoteric is hard, because it's offtopic so often < 1417152479 286365 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual studio support < 1417152492 538308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet some sorts of offtopicness are more obnoxious than others and it's hard to explain why < 1417152494 385184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Child support channel | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1417152500 848131 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1417152504 611893 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its ok < 1417152507 396675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, no longer off topic hth < 1417152512 544519 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will finish the RegXy < 1417152520 553938 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can be on topic < 1417152530 619536 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 23 cousins < 1417152537 741341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :To kill a zombie, you must kill its parents | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1417152538 160330 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then < 1417152544 503117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, now it's on /both/ topics < 1417152546 215280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while being confusing < 1417152551 44163 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1417152562 154832 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1417152562 528431 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whats that supposed to mean ais523 < 1417152571 763085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1417152585 8946 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies < 1417152591 656798 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that rule was for vampires < 1417152604 905404 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you kill dracula his minions also die < 1417152661 932113 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy TOPIC #esoteric :There aren't any topics| https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1417152665 69190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw if you didn't want another kid and you already have three, did you consider birth control < 1417152680 706252 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well idk maybe it didnt work < 1417152685 935539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1417152689 707628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dulnes: you put a typo in the topic :-( < 1417152695 562526 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were using birth control < 1417152709 816558 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :God damnit < 1417152710 825987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :The international hub for esoteric programming language discussion, development and deployment | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1417152715 579827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know what this means < 1417152721 569714 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could try men instead that would prevent babies < 1417152732 78555 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1417152742 648752 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have a sex change < 1417152743 396269 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would! < 1417152763 326706 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are terrible ideas < 1417152774 751755 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :As they would break apart my family < 1417152776 922924 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy your wife a strapon < 1417152779 371981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's not, re: all of this < 1417152788 213553 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren please < 1417152798 74829 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok i'll stop... < 1417152810 163560 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you religious? < 1417152816 293703 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1417152857 139721 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sex changes cost money/ cheating on wife also causes divorce/money loss < 1417152878 191515 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I was just making a bad joke there < 1417152905 714050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs < 1417152915 580113 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm whatever im going to drown myself in pie. < 1417152949 134022 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523 > 1417152949 794985 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417152951 767615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric :+m > 1417152951 793516 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417152961 812549 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :elliott > 1417152961 838605 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417152962 478930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1417152965 943220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most channels, I have to get annoyed and forcibly change topic when something like this happens < 1417152971 760654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by coming up with an interesting tangents < 1417152974 900007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all out of interesting tangents < 1417152978 229820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've realised I can do this < 1417152979 677849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric -o :ais523 > 1417152979 703842 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417152982 777525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry the topic is now fish < 1417152983 947261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric :-m > 1417152983 973116 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417152984 440937 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok ill stop talking < 1417152986 455325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric -o :elliott > 1417152986 481086 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417153002 350102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-o'ing other ops is my favourite rogue op move < 1417153027 76621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 is the kickflip < 1417153027 363175 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1417153030 688820 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :([^\/]*) < 1417153036 444525 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hf < 1417153046 965797 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I could match anything that isn't a backslash < 1417153051 977458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what /is/ a kickflip? < 1417153056 132590 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oДO < 1417153056 409991 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I actually need to include back slash escaped backslahes < 1417153057 833630 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe she was mistaken but whatever gnight < 1417153073 202731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickflip < 1417153075 542047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: you might take a look at my /// interpreter it has similar issues < 1417153082 810090 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use this (([^\/]|\\\/)*) < 1417153084 284233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean in the context of IRC < 1417153088 219780 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy PRIVMSG #esoteric :\/ thought that was a V < 1417153095 279448 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I invented a language similar to /// but less cool < 1417153096 555722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: me too < 1417153103 972368 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your /// stuff is very awesome < 1417153109 875068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1417153119 446418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a regex for matching slash-delimited backslash-escaping stuff in aiake < 1417153127 409335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find it < 1417153129 985131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aimake < 1417153146 478492 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :still haven't figured out how I'll come up with my next horrible language < 1417153148 567117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : push @aipath, $1 while $objvalue =~ m=((?:[^\\\/:]|\\.)*)( / | $ )=gsx; < 1417153156 614602 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1417153164 383373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to figure out specifically what that regex matches < 1417153164 921928 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backslashed backslashes < 1417153168 509650 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about those < 1417153174 148110 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(([^\/]|\\\/|\\\\)*) < 1417153174 653359 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1417153176 127927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking at it, seems I missed a ?: < 1417153183 672383 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be enough for me maybe I hope < 1417153186 881172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will have efficiency effects < 1417153188 847615 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the mandelbrot set turing complete? < 1417153189 317417 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you really need that \$ grouped < 1417153190 303114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: best to do it correctly < 1417153194 530648 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to use two loops in my code < 1417153197 303482 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mandelbrot set is a set < 1417153199 972919 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actuall y many, in two groups < 1417153203 61246 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not, uh, what's the word < 1417153205 415058 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one for santizing labels into perl valid labels < 1417153213 258022 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it is recursive < 1417153213 430007 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another for transforming RegXy rules into perl rules < 1417153218 419521 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :big fucking deal imo < 1417153220 854547 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1417153220 997258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, \\. is easier than \\\/|\\\\ and more correct, at least in the case of /// < 1417153226 40661 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was sarcsm < 1417153235 663129 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh nice idea ! thank you < 1417153251 695678 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bicyclidine: yes but there's no upper bound on the number of iterations required to find if a number is in the set < 1417153273 565241 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how regex $n works < 1417153274 582839 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a lot like the halting problem to me < 1417153276 916094 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have to count < 1417153315 392341 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, finding the limit set of some mappings is turing equivalent. < 1417153327 67924 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think that's the case for mandelbrot though. it's just squaring. < 1417153338 430516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, something else I'm annoyed at (and vaguely related to the LCRNG maths question I asked in here a few days ago) < 1417153353 605024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is when you have this nice elegant solution to something that isn't quite your problem < 1417153355 979679 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be possible to build an accumulator out of the real and imaginary part < 1417153388 796667 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$i =~ s/(^|\n)([^\/]*)\+(([^\/]|\\.)*)\/(([^\/]|\\.)*)\/(\n|$)/$1$2_plus$3$5$7/s; < 1417153391 182300 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not working :( < 1417153413 752592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that isn't quite my problem: you have sets of boolean variables (some variables appear in multiple sets); you want to find a mapping of variables to true/false so that there's an even number of true variables in each set < 1417153431 149183 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :howd the lcrng thing work out in the end? < 1417153431 982782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a nice algorithm to solve this in O(number of variables^2) < 1417153450 176372 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brute force? < 1417153464 311065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: I didn't solve it, even though it seems solvable, due to running out of ideas; however, I decided that I possibly had a "how can I use X to do Y?" problem < 1417153471 597352 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brute force is 2^n < 1417153475 566394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are looking at other potential ways to do Y, without doing X, even though X would have been cool < 1417153485 285347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wrote a brute forcer that works for n=32 < 1417153493 675659 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: easy: don't set any to true. O(1) < 1417153497 95352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=64 would only take a few times longer than my expected lifetime < 1417153512 60598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: there's one specific variable that has to be set to true < 1417153552 653063 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=64 prob solvable on cloud clusters in your lifetime, or even this year < 1417153569 826458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that was on my laptop < 1417153571 251632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems like you've reinvented XORSAT? < 1417153581 979060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, there was almost certainly a name for it < 1417153610 585810 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(([^\/]|\\.)*) < 1417153613 616078 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I write this with less brackets < 1417153633 740863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, from a different point of view, reinvented linear programming < 1417153643 65686 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the outer breackets are unecessay < 1417153649 195241 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use $& < 1417153651 622553 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417153655 873268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: XORSAT is much simpler than linear programming < 1417153676 836977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just solving a matrix equation (mod 2) < 1417153680 682698 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, my /actual/ problem expressed in these terms are: you have a number of integer variables (mod n), and a number of linear polynomials of those variables < 1417153697 721322 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the polynomials are inequalities rather than direct equalities < 1417153705 338628 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't use any of the normal linear programming tricks < 1417153719 360592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear integer programming is NP-complete < 1417153737 313900 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was thinking of the subset of linear programming that's just solving matrix equations < 1417153741 838440 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a reasonably large and useful subset < 1417153748 621355 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and bigger than xorsat) < 1417153768 569207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. but it doesn't work with inequalities. < 1417153786 203951 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing I can think of works with inequalities and it is annoying me < 1417153790 86618 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1417153800 705267 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mandelbrot set is connected < 1417153806 388634 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove it! < 1417153808 327713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm you have (mod n). but i think linear integer programming is NP-complete even with just {0,1} < 1417153814 793983 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this means that it cannot be turing complete < 1417153824 833802 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: the wikipedia article says so < 1417153831 827028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: almost certainly those facts are unconnected < 1417153836 698919 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a joke beacuse it's hard to prove that < 1417153838 893672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*those questions < 1417153876 147385 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part is local connection. < 1417153876 372318 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : so in otherwose, almost certainly no? :D < 1417153900 265563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1417153902 814529 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1417153953 961200 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer programming is NP-complete -- lecture today was on that fact < 1417153962 939187 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amongothers < 1417154007 832939 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it is NP-hard < 1417154023 488691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw aaronson and friends think of XORSAT as "that problem which is so similar to SAT that many purported proofs of P != NP can be discarded by checking that they would prove XORSAT not in P because they fail to distinguish any real property of them" < 1417154030 583642 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i uh, don't think it could be np-complete without being np-hard < 1417154036 60916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a quote but a paraphrase) < 1417154042 956998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, I think of 2SAT like that < 1417154050 379419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's another < 1417154058 53334 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. i'm still learning this stuff... < 1417154063 106642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xorsat might be better, though, I don't have much experience in finding fallacies in P≠NP proofs < 1417154070 376035 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, complexity is garbage < 1417154079 921235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's more common, incidentally, claims of P=NP proofs or claims of P≠NP proofs? < 1417154086 168789 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a randomized algoritthm then? < 1417154094 341804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that purported proof by deolalikar (sp?) a few years ago failed on that test < 1417154095 640850 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :np is nondeterministic < 1417154097 587317 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1417154111 388659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the latter, because unless a P=NP proof is existence rather than constructive, it's normally possible just to run it on a computer and see what happens < 1417154111 818640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't remember < 1417154132 746346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it might depend on the level of crankiness involved < 1417154175 920651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: my favourite NP definition is "an problem is NP if it can be solved by a trustworthy P-time checker and untrustworthy TC oracle working together, such that the solution is always correct if the oracle happens to be trustworthy, and has no false positives regardless of what the oracle does" < 1417154186 204281 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of words < 1417154196 712524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: you need a lot of words, sadly < 1417154209 715518 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get the whole of STDIN as a string in perl? < 1417154241 749969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helping a student with this, we came up with the (possibly slightly mathematically unsound) "a problem is NP if a P-time algorithm with access to randomness has no false positives, and no false negatives with probability 1" < 1417154257 722794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: {local $/; $string = <>} < 1417154280 65947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: although that will read a file specified on the command line if there is one, in preference to stdin < 1417154285 164744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is normally what you want but not always < 1417154290 312777 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats really nice thank you ! < 1417154304 504282 :ZombieAlive!~N3cr0naV@unaffiliated/zombiealive QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417154375 43603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: i'm pretty sure you can easily construct a set that is connected and such that it's TC to check membership, yes: pick your favorite TC set of integers and connect with arcs or something. < 1417154541 729873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : how about a randomized algoritthm then? <-- the current "most believed hypothesis" by experts is that (RNG) randomness doesn't give you anything beyond P < 1417154602 863031 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it at least make the constant teenier? < 1417154611 557774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at least without some method of comparing the possible random results < 1417154623 486369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there are P-time PRNGs that are pretty good < 1417154638 355872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : How do I get the whole of STDIN as a string in perl? <-- hey i _told_ you to look at my /// interpreter! < 1417154649 446434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be something quite spectacular if there was an algo that worked with true-randomness, but not a CSPRNG < 1417154770 528823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the hypothesis is based on the the theory that there are P-time PRNGs so good that they cannot be revealed as pseudo in P-time < 1417154774 234607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-the < 1417154802 727386 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe true randomness doesn't exist? < 1417154803 559354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although no one has proved they exist, as it's something stronger than P != NP < 1417154824 453114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, P=NP would mean that such PRNGs could definitely be proven pseudo in P-time < 1417154834 556610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren: quite possible but the mathematical concept of a true random algorithm still does. < 1417155006 490110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it follows from the also hypothesized existence of cryptographic hashes < 1417155108 147041 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lpaste.net/115258 < 1417155127 293514 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think adbinery is wrong or my translation? < 1417155134 40901 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the output seems wrong < 1417155176 382016 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either could be wrong (possibly both) < 1417155189 222576 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but which? < 1417155218 292458 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't checked < 1417155240 854047 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10101 = 21 < 1417155246 550239 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 = 3 < 1417155252 794435 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:4f7:f48d:5377:1a86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417155256 988399 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Quit: Pics or it didn't happen < 1417155263 240046 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 = 11000 < 1417155281 235610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Some other time < 1417155409 379432 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: One thing that at least is wrong is that in Perl's regexps, you use plain + instead of (sed, POSIX re) \+ for "one or more". < 1417155456 288866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess that applies to whatever the upper block is too, now that I look at it. < 1417155461 739527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, just woke up.) < 1417155473 747005 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's trying to match + the operator plus < 1417155502 942909 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1417155505 302583 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I havea bug in my translation < 1417155549 407686 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:4f7:f48d:5377:1a86 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1417155755 503214 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.118 QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1417156171 102015 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1417156178 923716 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completed a self hosting regxy -> pl translator < 1417156189 789484 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I add this an ddetails to the wiki page? < 1417156887 448652 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please advice < 1417156968 773486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: most commonly you'd post it somewhere else and add a link < 1417157002 271715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could post it on the wiki if you had no better options, but normally there are better options; I know graue (who used to own esolangs.org) has volunteered to host almost arbitrary esolang compilers/interpreters/stuff on esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files < 1417157013 940887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure anyone's asked him to do that in ages < 1417157023 294577 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1417157042 846991 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1417157066 931958 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could put it on a paste bin but it might disappear < 1417157189 999900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things do get posted to the wiki, and I'm not personally against that, but I know some other people are < 1417157261 930664 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1417157271 715808 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to make the RegXY article better < 1417157300 615503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people use a user subpage and link it from mainspace < 1417157362 385591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think everyone agrees that the impl should be posted somehow < 1417157365 340085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just there's debate as to how < 1417157377 950464 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if it isn't too long you can post directly on the wiki < 1417157411 787622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the wiki page normally isn't a valid program; however you can avoid this by using Perl's documentations features I suppose < 1417157428 912664 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its only 10 lines < 1417157449 287874 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as it is in the public domain too, it is OK then < 1417157479 364538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's only 10 lines, posting it directly's probably fine < 1417157484 937619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure to escape it properly, though < 1417157497 613226 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a program to escape it? < 1417157499 326619 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1417157499 469974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrapping in 
 to start and
works for most programs) < 1417157502 572433 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1417157503 617179 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1417157617 709226 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That works for display, but not for download unless you add # or Perl documentation commands or whatever. < 1417157641 545967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's not bad for download, you can copy-paste either from the displayed version or the wikitext < 1417157655 666821 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pure_BF/Implementation?action=raw&ctype=text/css is a valid Literate Haskell program. < 1417157667 962958 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I put the reverse example code? < 1417157687 724358 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from here https://web.archive.org/web/20041103230415/http://geeksden.sourceforge.net/geekywiki/REGXY < 1417157720 426602 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the license from that archived wiki, although the stuff in my directory is in public domain so you can use it < 1417157738 814600 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1417157741 12496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the code is small enough it would probably be OK though < 1417157760 660819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: the wiki is public domain things only, which is about the most restrictive thing possible in terms of what you can post to it < 1417157814 15999 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about Perl programming to know the best way to do a similar thing with Perl than what I have done with Haskell there. < 1417157922 223050 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07REGXY14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41223&oldid=41218 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+1917) 10Improved language definition and added examples along with implementation < 1417158092 280974 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evfkfquaceggtpzt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1417158115 817016 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Cluid Zhasulelm14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41224&oldid=41155 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+75) 10 < 1417158243 893498 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Nonsense Query List14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41225&oldid=31459 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+111) 10 < 1417158535 820228 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07REGXY14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41226&oldid=41223 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+467) 1099 bottles of beer example < 1417158730 625754 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Cluid Zhasulelm14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41227&oldid=41224 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+227) 10wikis < 1417159440 514084 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:4f7:f48d:5377:1a86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417159475 919148 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1417159735 502187 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:4f7:f48d:5377:1a86 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1417160647 670345 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the japanese blogger saying about MMMNBF? < 1417160910 608784 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, send me the page in question and I can try to translate. < 1417161427 693092 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1417161445 262095 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what page[s] it is < 1417161447 808240 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean copyright or whatever, the blog doesn't seem to have that info < 1417161472 100692 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what information are you looking for? < 1417161474 929053 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just curiouw what their views were < 1417161482 277664 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they had questions about it or who they were < 1417161514 342935 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blooger is the language designer. afaik. < 1417161537 438182 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :corect? < 1417161549 499774 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i didnt know that < 1417161610 721627 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll translate the whole page of the main post < 1417161618 883312 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps make it more clear < 1417161635 926022 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :title : まだ名前のないBrainfuck風スタック言語、略して MNNBFSL < 1417161677 976139 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric : a not yet named brainfuck style stack language, for short mnnbfsl < 1417161691 739915 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :というのを考えてみた。 < 1417161702 987814 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been thinking about it < 1417161717 347606 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :インタープリタの実装は yshl/MNNBFSL ? GitHub に。 < 1417161732 467725 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see! < 1417161761 174269 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an implementation of an interpreteris here, github" < 1417161777 992542 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :データスタックとリターンスタックの 2本のスタックがあります。 < 1417161801 170312 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there are two stacks, a data stack and a return stack" < 1417161815 140769 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third-to-last paragraph: "It feels quite similar to Brainfuck, but [ and ] has been repurposed for program counter manipulation instead of jump. Forward jump can be done by getting PC via [, but backward jump would require getting PC and some adjustments to it and is slightly harder." < 1417161836 674961 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417161842 748775 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :スタック 2本あればチューリング完全らしいから < 1417161859 550987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417161873 518267 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if there are two stacks it is turing complete ish, < 1417161878 38099 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second-to-last and last paragraphs: "It keeps PC so I guess it is harder to optimize than Brainfuck when it comes to the transpiler to C." "At least it is better than Brainfuck that the behavior on EOF is defined..." < 1417161884 946374 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1417161896 2876 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :チューリング完全なんじゃないかな。 < 1417161916 258754 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I wonder if it is not turing complete" < 1417162149 137806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so despite the effort we're putting into translating this < 1417162153 468422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is nonetheless just a BF derivative? < 1417162178 62212 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an intersting BF derivative < 1417162221 272272 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it is a bit different from BF < 1417162228 638612 :qwertyo!~qwertyo1@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1417162234 359482 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is jusggleing the stacks < 1417162257 61997 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the return address is not always there when you need it < 1417162296 569373 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case from my reading, we have the spec right for all the instructions < 1417162370 478656 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417162446 720737 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MNNBFSL14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41228&oldid=41216 5* 03Orenwatson 5* (+1) 10count of instructions was wrong < 1417162507 620824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417162565 306789 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its < 1417162570 818523 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually only superficially related to brainfuck < 1417162581 982764 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its based on two stacsk not a tape < 1417162592 645477 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to compute jumps, not matching brackets < 1417162613 343047 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1417162656 321212 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: um, two stacks is a tape. < 1417162707 101909 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blogger's profile says: "I am a biological human, unrelated to the Yokohama Shootout Hockey League" < 1417162752 10503 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so his name is just: yshl < 1417162849 987305 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has bought a lot of manga, most of hisposts are listing the manga he bought that week. < 1417162894 489121 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1417163047 12063 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MNNBFSL14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41229&oldid=41228 5* 03Orenwatson 5* (+84) 10added apparent author info < 1417163211 115848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "Two stacks and a tape walk into a bar..." < 1417163229 171735 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know, it just sounded like a setup for a joke; no idea how it'd continue.) < 1417163411 843185 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1417163425 771459 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't translate brainfuck into MMBFSL < 1417163433 573372 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tape in bf is right infinite < 1417163441 69916 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the stacks start empty in MMBFSL < 1417163558 576632 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:1094:1b9e:3080:60af JOIN :#esoteric < 1417163948 572696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Possibly you can use a tape layout like "1 a 1 b 1 c 0" for data "a b c", and make the analogue of > to check the 0/1 flag and extend the tape. < 1417163983 267635 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Could be trickier than that in a sufficiently tarpitty language.) < 1417163994 961877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't been following the discussion.) < 1417164004 871073 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good idea < 1417164032 844377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I evaded the bait by cleverly being asleep, but OTOH I don't have an answer either, I probably would just have mumbled something incoherent about the branch predictor's hardware return stack. < 1417164095 512929 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1417164194 134479 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1417165003 960113 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent the blogger a (no doubt poorly written) email asking for more information. < 1417165022 725234 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont believe you < 1417165038 20560 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:1094:1b9e:3080:60af QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417165076 590232 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? I really did send him a n email. it's 6pm now so < 1417165085 241975 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in japan that is) < 1417165095 864913 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk man. you just seem really shifty < 1417165098 660228 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he should be home from work soon < 1417165101 369053 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool Oren , kep me updated when you get a reply please? < 1417165104 415578 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can you ban dts? < 1417165113 65867 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lololol < 1417165145 477493 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1417165558 508787 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1417165558 682183 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1417166676 969098 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxfgaqialirjxjzy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1417166850 368891 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Binary_combinatory_logic < 1417166856 66449 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this really string rewriting < 1417166872 204988 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its term rewrting not string rewriting < 1417166878 344199 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11101xyz --> 11xz1yz < 1417166882 735216 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not characters x,y,z but terms < 1417167053 711293 :qwertyo!~qwertyo1@50-1-63-35.dedicated.static.sonic.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1417167068 510065 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm that's right < 1417167610 153080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417167626 467174 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Infinity this page is really annoying < 1417167714 171744 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417167980 169883 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1417167981 919104 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Cheese < 1417168026 926881 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it really say "Infinity closely approximates the amount of nonsense on this page." or am I imagining things? < 1417168051 701386 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheese++ is far better tbh < 1417168073 81119 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dts, you should please design cheese+++ (and implement it in cheese++) < 1417168096 410348 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would cheese+++ have in it? < 1417168142 356545 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see, the BCL page is not even talking about string rewriting, it's just a category. < 1417168171 628048 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could use ideas from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cheeses < 1417168191 483572 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1417168371 452628 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be viewed as a sort of conditional string rewriting. "Kxy -> x if x and y are produced by the following CFG...", but I have yet to see such a formalism. < 1417168402 374236 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(CFGs are, of course, string rewrite systems) < 1417168441 483825 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dint think that < 1417168462 764876 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context-free grammar? < 1417168516 491710 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider the rules S -> 00; S -> 01; S -> 1SS, and look at which strings not containing S can be produced from S. < 1417168529 922122 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that CFG describes the syntax well < 1417168543 772322 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the language is defined by term rewriting < 1417168555 138211 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1417168566 128700 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be moved out of string rewrite category < 1417168603 815287 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps not? is "term" a term or is it the set of strings defined under "syntax"? < 1417168677 863007 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can view it either way. Which means I don't feel strongly about the category. < 1417168720 529249 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-97.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1417168733 55711 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since oerjan added the category I would leave the decision to him. < 1417168758 843461 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-97.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1417168758 986619 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1417168827 654358 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be a string rewriting system only if it has infinitely many rules < 1417168873 31357 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1100xy --> x denotes all rules 11000000 --> 00, 11000001 --> 00, ... < 1417168892 102910 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you treat it as aterm rewrite system it is just 2 rules < 1417168911 25807 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it talks about "subterms of a given term" so it should be a term rewrite system < 1417169185 312606 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: I would normally agree, but there are notions of string rewriting where the rules may contain variables that represent arbtitrary substrings. (So instead of a term rewriting with unary function symbols, you'd have to do term rewriting with constants and one AC [associative, commutative] symbol.) < 1417169210 940730 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i was just looking at the thue system thing on wikipedia < 1417169233 181206 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what you're saying it makes sense to call it string rewriting < 1417169239 329715 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in that contaxt 1100xy --> x fits perfectly, except that it would allow steps like 11001010 -> < 1417169254 194569 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :context (ouch) < 1417169331 460635 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the category is not overflowing with pages, so a broad definition of "string rewriting" seems appropriate. < 1417169342 725807 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, thanks for your input! < 1417169917 808325 :nooga!~nooga@c177-154.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1417170558 118214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417170765 919207 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is it easy to recognize CFGs inside a string? < 1417170784 574420 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe this is similar to regex < 1417170801 983391 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/11SS/$1/ < 1417170937 836115 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea for esolang: Write a CFG, then write CFG substitution rules to define a program < 1417170949 26003 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can implement BCL in it for example, quite easily < 1417172010 801823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417172099 246046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1417172604 809489 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode NICK :dts|Zzzz < 1417173265 175895 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417173287 603110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1417173289 987671 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1417173502 588586 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417173509 273820 :dts|Zzzz!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1417173612 147027 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1417174650 370331 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1417174710 550000 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chellouid. < 1417174752 749339 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the esolang wiki is down < 1417174760 667344 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was reading the BCL page and this is interesting, < 1417174803 560996 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/esolangs.org < 1417174805 814395 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define it in two steps, first syntax: S --> 00 | 01 | 1 S S < 1417174860 387600 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I'm provisionally going to suggest it's probably that shifty VPS provider at work again. < 1417174862 580057 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then rewrite laws: 100 S:x S:y --> x, 101 S:x S:y S:z --> 11 x z 1 y z < 1417174879 920892 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: (Doesn't answer to SSH, so I can't do much.) < 1417174881 640481 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this implements BCL < 1417174890 169719 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter < 1417174893 611940 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also implement other programs in this way < 1417175014 559064 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wouldn't be surprised at all. :/ < 1417175029 550066 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: this sounds an awful lot like an L-system... < 1417175040 263469 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its much more powerful than L system < 1417175068 695128 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can match an arbitrary CFG in the string to provide a replacement, rather than just a character < 1417175088 912402 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your rules can shrink the string as well as grow it, so you can compute more things < 1417175229 614846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the term "L-system" is technically restricted to having only context-free rules, even if that's the most common case. < 1417175263 439286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-system#Context_sensitive_grammars is counted as a "variation". Not that there are probably any "official" definitions. < 1417175439 679673 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use different symbos for the CFG production, and the rewrite rules < 1417175441 480838 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont know < 1417175447 762262 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> maybe for rewrite < 1417175459 736138 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or => < 1417175476 120808 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest >>=. < 1417175480 124838 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool that you can implement BCL in 2 lines, maybe there are other program you can write it in < 1417175894 822137 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:95ca:e132:1fa9:5264 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417176013 611699 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1417176157 739116 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:95ca:e132:1fa9:5264 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1417176402 934399 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: MANIFOLD CHICKEN < 1417177224 242495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1417177258 897150 :nooga!~nooga@c177-154.icpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1417177389 878600 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1417177695 482561 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-188-109-011-013.188.109.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1417177734 34700 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-188-109-011-013.188.109.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1417178089 279937 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-224.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1417178125 888010 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-224.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1417178126 31153 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1417178232 681629 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1417178661 33832 :ZombieAlive!~N3cr0naV@unaffiliated/zombiealive JOIN :#esoteric < 1417179485 473661 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1417183981 323455 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1417184921 341250 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :them esowiki iz daun < 1417184930 112287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It is a shame. < 1417184974 518576 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loid < 1417184974 664499 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 14h 55m 31s ago: which is usually suffixed with (embed) <-- if you want people to follow conventions you should actually state them on the website hth < 1417184989 926907 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@message oerjan It's not my website < 1417184990 106591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages-loud messages? < 1417185004 370431 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bell oerjan It's not my website < 1417185004 514108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1417185061 631320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did say "we". < 1417185086 192502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not your (singular) website, but arguably it's then your (plural) website. < 1417185143 382857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless it was the kind of passive-voice-style "we".) < 1417185251 151162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess we could nickping you to maybe have a poke and/or a prod at the management console (if they have one) of the esolangs VPS, to see if it says anything informative. (It's down w.r.t. HTTP, SSH at least at the moment.) < 1417185965 129292 :Oren!461856fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.86.251 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1417186296 991228 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417186336 98225 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417186573 975324 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1417186686 443612 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1417186732 518848 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417187003 799256 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417187199 69707 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1417187361 144675 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417187711 234716 :mig22_!~mig@180.255.240.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417187748 943284 :mig22_!~mig@180.255.240.73 NICK :mig22 < 1417187897 925691 :mig22!~mig@180.255.240.73 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417187953 379928 :mig22!~mig@bb115-66-161-110.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1417187960 463587 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417188080 254702 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fvivwefgmqefbvel JOIN :#esoteric < 1417188171 602887 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1417188898 609795 :mig22!~mig@bb115-66-161-110.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1417188971 861758 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417189139 514212 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1417189332 285164 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417189566 451107 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417189681 874443 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417189893 486378 :propumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417189899 535423 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1417189975 569420 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1417190142 233253 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417190142 414596 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1417190358 468306 :propumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417190627 258967 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1417190874 262986 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417190881 825342 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417191061 825463 :propumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417191087 682510 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1417191279 244063 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1417191492 288816 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417191689 596625 :propumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1417191971 854865 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417192208 459781 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417192691 798897 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417192713 961460 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1417192774 863249 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1417192841 778845 :propumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417192928 492960 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417193029 272994 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1417193032 130828 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417193181 765505 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417193219 598746 :propumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1417193382 719309 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1417193688 917157 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of bot logs in and logs out every 3 minutes? < 1417193708 315421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin isn't a bot :p < 1417193720 953702 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's going on then? < 1417193737 889732 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad connection? < 1417193993 475012 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems my scrip7 interpreter is still buggy < 1417194012 503352 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loops are not working < 1417194022 164546 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417194098 541819 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this program crashes my scrip7 interpreter: $ { # _ p 64 } . < 1417194112 883169 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to fixt that < 1417194127 294457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :contrapumpkin: fix your connection :p < 1417194224 152000 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is with the null variable _ < 1417194229 329349 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1417194244 261927 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn'tin the spec becuase it keeps screing up < 1417194259 99925 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/screing/screwing/ < 1417194371 755133 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417194449 915712 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :elliott > 1417194450 125723 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417194456 527376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric +b :$a:copumpkin$##fixyourconnection > 1417194456 551877 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417194465 219286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone poke me in an hour < 1417194478 127937 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, A057755 is about to run out < 1417194512 4365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still two days for Dominosa and it's so far seen very little action. < 1417194518 805657 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most of what it's seen is #esoteric's fault. < 1417194597 776612 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1417194613 568348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rolf solution... < 1417194618 55487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it legit or just a really bad cheat? < 1417194659 317807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many bits do you get from the $$ setter? I guess a bit less than 16? < 1417194670 619374 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 15 bits < 1417194698 113131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but some other processes are already on the system, right? < 1417194704 896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't collide with those < 1417194704 300480 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1417194714 158174 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a bit less than 15 bits really < 1417194714 581504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I guess it's actually faked < 1417194722 136416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in your pid isn't really that < 1417194724 232582 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? no < 1417194725 816348 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not faked < 1417194734 350294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? anagol fakes many syscalls < 1417194777 730437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've been assuming it's legit, because even just uncompressed embedding is just 240B + whatever language-specific overhead there is. < 1417194787 267154 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:25e6:33c6:a0ab:49d6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417194790 491426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it even less than that. < 1417194806 271369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it has a shebang, documentation, and obeys PEP-8 < 1417194815 366941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PatchiKnowsWhatsUp v2 < 1417194824 585517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit tests, < 1417194837 641935 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was supposed to check what that was all about, but forgot. < 1417194855 25770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Wow/PatchiKnowsWhatsUp_1415208522&py < 1417194858 34166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nice solution < 1417194927 153231 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the space after print, as someone pointed out < 1417194946 721098 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would've done it again, too. < 1417194969 464364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh, is that solution yours? or what do you mean < 1417194984 43065 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I liked the space in particular. < 1417195005 122916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1417195012 887936 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the nickname. < 1417195097 650258 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, someone did A057755 in jq < 1417195629 820572 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl... $$.2, yuck. < 1417195683 208238 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :append 2 to variable $$ < 1417195690 709413 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how I read that < 1417195707 597527 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perl may not read it the same way < 1417195715 269106 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. $$ is the process id, it'll be 315652 < 1417195724 76898 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :after appending the 1 < 1417195728 641482 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :... the 2 < 1417195735 493312 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1417195748 333998 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :497/1651, hmm. < 1417195944 813982 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have we decided that Dominosa is a compression task now? < 1417195965 648315 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what kind of literals are those C solutions using? < 1417195971 67382 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1417196033 514225 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also < 1417196047 1784 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Make+24 is public now < 1417196070 750803 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now you can see the craziest regex I've ever written: < 1417196075 665212 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\w\K\B/+/g; < 1417196110 473842 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.. < 1417196124 44527 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's short but crazy < 1417196139 335438 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the solution: http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Make+24/b_jonas_1414698860&pl < 1417196202 803953 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: It's not a compression task, but I'm sure the best solutions are embeds. < 1417196257 731183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Out of my burlesque ones, the un-suffixed one is legit, the "cheat" makes one unwarranted assumption that happens to cause no problems for the three test cases, and the "supercheat" just embeds the outputs. < 1417196271 971293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: idea: programming language that somehow uses $$ as part of the control flow/code... < 1417196277 385226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(implicitly) < 1417196292 991512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :save a whole two bytes of information!! < 1417196383 865181 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course Dominosa is a data compression task, so where are the Perl solutions :/ < 1417196514 472008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anagol should just add zlib as a language < 1417196527 1311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I guess zlib can't condition on input at all though :p < 1417196544 622342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, could you easily add input to the "languages" of decompressors? < 1417196611 636240 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1417197039 666109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was looking for a feature like that in the end-user gzip/zcat/etc. tools, but couldn't find anything. < 1417197048 43927 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For that one bash+zcat thing.) < 1417197092 679186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what I mean is considering the decompressors as interpreters for languages like "emit these bytes" and "reference N bytes" ago... I know zip is enough to do a quine, so maybe adding input somehow would be enough to get it to do golf cheats all by itself? < 1417197096 681496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you knew I meant that though < 1417197186 149815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no; I assumed you meant what I was looking for, which was to compress input Y as if it was preceded by input X to something short called Z, and then being able to decompress Z back to Y if given X. < 1417197251 995567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds weird. < 1417197268 90774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds somewhat reasonable that many compressors could get a shorter Z (compared to just compressing Y alone to Z') if X and Y are similar, but they don't seem to offer that as an option. < 1417197272 302908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand-programming of zip files is where it's at < 1417197351 578878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the zlib library has something a bit like that. < 1417197369 179072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://www.zlib.net/manual.html deflateSetDictionary + inflateSetDictionary. < 1417197379 675741 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Initializes the compression dictionary from the given byte sequence without producing any compressed output. This function must be called immediately after deflateInit, deflateInit2 or deflateReset, before any call of deflate. The compressor and decompressor must use exactly the same dictionary (see inflateSetDictionary). without producing any compressed output." < 1417197389 937660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The dictionary should consist of strings (byte sequences) that are likely to be encountered later in the data to be compressed, with the most commonly used strings preferably put towards the end of the dictionary. Using a dictionary is most useful when the data to be compressed is short and can be predicted with good accuracy; the data can then be compressed better than with the default empty ... < 1417197395 957828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... dictionary." < 1417197401 788211 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as far as I could tell, the command-line tools didn't provide for that. < 1417197505 176441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even though they could very easily have a "do {deflate,inflate}SetDictionary with the contents of file X before {,de}compression" option, and it might even conceivably be useful, to someone, somewhere.) < 1417197566 130067 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, extending zlib seems wrong, because the trick is usually to come up with a special purpose decompressor that exploits a lot of regular structure in the output that is know a priori. < 1417197712 459347 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, no matter how much you change its data portion, my Make24 entry will never print "Hello, world!") < 1417197744 55486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, I was mostly joking on the zlib solutions that float around. < 1417197776 278088 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1417197791 368449 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but usually they don't come out on top overall < 1417197893 9155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, neither does Ada and it's still there :p < 1417198038 423269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: actually, you know what might be interesting? an arithmetic coder language < 1417198062 211105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's some PAQ variant that represents the compressed data as "prediction model algorithm" + "arithmetic coder output for that data with the prediction model" < 1417198087 268392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to see how to extend that to multiple outputs, sadly < 1417198096 488305 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1417198122 437410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try to use speech recognition participate in the discussion though < 1417198129 791389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to know < 1417198130 63814 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1417198141 284822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant now < 1417198151 703134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lovely to see the spectacular fruits of your research < 1417198172 194136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is nothing really sucks this is the Google speech recognizer < 1417198182 880293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pats the fizziebot's metallic head < 1417198183 440858 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my research I mean < 1417198189 554158 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hehe, mine won't either, < 1417198192 152803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, well, you'd better go improve that, right? < 1417198198 589321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that would ever happen. < 1417198203 903975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1417198210 727475 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e $_="Hello, world!"; s/\w\K\B/+/g;s/\w/hex$&/ge;s/(.*)=/($1)\xc3\x97/g;print < 1417198211 946049 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0+14+0+0+0, 0+0+0+0+13! < 1417198228 718624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :louhi accent is not entirely comfortable with it < 1417198233 262013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so much cuter in lowercase < 1417198245 281069 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to speak in uppercase < 1417198284 482717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wife is finding this amusing < 1417198296 124479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is using this to talk part of the corporate culture there < 1417198300 667375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves to fizzie's wife < 1417198309 887912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope not < 1417198332 726054 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: In my case it's a close call. you can make it print things like Hel+lo,+world+! < 1417198352 445146 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autolab speech recognizer out it would be in my eye me listing < 1417198378 579797 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: because the numbers are actually taken from stdin. < 1417198380 676357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1417198406 880159 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I see < 1417198460 573085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to make something based on the input numbers but forgot I had would have had to rearrange them < 1417198480 775279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does your wife think of fungot < 1417198480 958373 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: looks more to me like a bush. actually, now i'm all about " do unto you! < 1417198521 326211 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use the input numbers at all < 1417198552 70058 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one version I read the first line to determine which of the three testcases I have, but $$ turns out to be shorter < 1417198577 145943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite funny s*** say < 1417198587 245887 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was so happy when I found the -a options of perl. < 1417198589 663268 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :she says < 1417198604 962504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice censor < 1417198614 162606 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :autosplit? < 1417198620 56191 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's happened to me when I was demonstrating this to some students < 1417198660 303163 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried to say: how old is she < 1417198675 232931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :what came out was something something is shaped < 1417198683 280975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s*** < 1417198693 369928 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes. it just so happened that I was already inserting the operators by indexing into an array, and this gave me another array to do exactly the same for the numbers, virtually for free. < 1417198752 626417 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417198796 880130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: at least it's not as bad as dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all < 1417198841 880112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear fungot, let's set so double the killer delete select all < 1417198842 23390 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that as well, i see! < 1417198849 163406 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how old is she? < 1417198849 467411 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i look forward to. every. single. time. < 1417198876 12041 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what came out was something something is shaped? < 1417198876 155441 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that, but also a lot! < 1417198915 529058 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how do you define a function template that can return void or non-void? can you really only do it with two separate overloads? < 1417198915 711219 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: to the last, i will grapple with thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee < 1417198945 551125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fungot is upset < 1417198945 755024 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but a good one! it's funny this one time in high school, a friend, but i have a problem, t-rex? < 1417198959 344007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric -b :$a:copumpkin$##fixyourconnection > 1417198959 384513 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417199020 168178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric -o :elliott > 1417199020 192168 NAMES :#esoteric < 1417199109 841067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Benedict Cumberbatch Can Charm Humans, but Can He Fool a Computer?" this is the best headline I've ever read < 1417199125 979522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no, he can't fool computers into thinking he's human" < 1417199132 383491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by headline I mean wolfram blog post title < 1417199158 461254 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what's the best headline you've ever read? < 1417199158 642645 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: don't i know you from somewhere? but, i mean, a male, i can be one of those people are going to think you're a pedophile, and he's on a friggin' universe. and then there'll be a day shortly afterwards when we can simulate universe on our cell, because there'd have been no controversy. < 1417199164 251722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Turing machines were one of the focal points of the movie, and we launched a prize in 2007 to determine whether the 2,3 Turing machine was universal." come oooon < 1417199304 234294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.wolfram.com/data/uploads/2014/11/confident-results.png benedict cumberbatch revealed to be actually the same person as alan rickman by stephen wolfram < 1417199429 870090 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :frightening < 1417199923 740916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott kalanwww.fronter finnish speech recognizer ovat < 1417199940 747986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1417199987 680108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :langat funka puunkaato unikot kankaat langat kankaat < 1417199997 575937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no use I can't say it < 1417200013 997261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine what < 1417200028 290753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope your research does a lot better than this < 1417200053 534437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last one was my wife crying < 1417200060 472585 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying < 1417200090 499645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try to improve the phone with recognition I believe this office recognize out of < 1417200093 591066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can your marriage survive speech recognition < 1417200109 331596 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if i can survive speed recognition < 1417200118 967130 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1417200119 110307 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1417200129 115921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :high-speed speech recognition < 1417200174 780291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :find the West gutter < 1417200181 502845 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i want to try taking a speech recognition thing and hold it up to a radio announcer rattling off caveats for an insurance policy < 1417200189 436032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1417200189 579165 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you you're going trick-or-treating this year will be better in the future. a year, a balloon! the balloon goes up some of the way, we can consider the real question, which is a good thing! stupid problems < 1417200199 203287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need it < 1417200206 211294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it < 1417200215 98593 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1417200221 766605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up < 1417200243 16561 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to speak fun and got separately < 1417200259 152713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you find the west gutter yet < 1417200269 883923 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still missing < 1417200302 77532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's tragic < 1417200310 254137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this on a computer or a phone, anyway? < 1417200325 979439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing it on my android tablet < 1417200337 53061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :with screen - X < 1417200357 57977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everything I say it sent to Google satellite < 1417200393 720417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't reach Google at the moment it says < 1417200404 150954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the age of cloud < 1417200432 280948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this works better for native English speakers < 1417200462 875312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have it set to recognize both in Spanish and English < 1417200471 647055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish notepad < 1417200492 496320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :voisi puhua myös suomea < 1417200587 422277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still seem so tiny in lowercase. < 1417200595 854678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...do you even speak spanish? < 1417200622 11247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't < 1417200791 928290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay. < 1417200794 592907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can learn. < 1417200812 660645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to machine translation I want need to < 1417200923 874767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it automagically do speech recognition -> translation -> IRC? < 1417200927 944235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be something < 1417201025 118473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :its can do a speech recognition to translation to speech synthesis < 1417201033 907331 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not to IRC < 1417201037 137159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hook that up to speech recognition again, then < 1417201067 846991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the best idea < 1417201083 897458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a second device though < 1417201105 819802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't shower you with devices when they initiate you? < 1417201120 431940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could use some of Your Research on your computer as the other speech recogniser < 1417201125 213224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :startin hiilet < 1417201136 854649 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually started yet < 1417201156 749809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true < 1417201168 868562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's mostly about to finish < 1417201262 566483 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.70.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417201609 159459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that some kind of pun < 1417201647 220211 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to say in Microsoft you about finish < 1417201667 711275 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :my restaurant < 1417201685 266232 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1417201687 436380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :my research ace about the Finnish language < 1417201719 418578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so translate english -> finnish < 1417201750 140985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, I can translate what you say back to english < 1417201771 584112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a lot of things up hahaha system have at home < 1417201776 112589 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07GridScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41230&oldid=41222 5* 0371.184.241.244 5* (+3) 10 < 1417201796 693532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Walking Dead pop < 1417201798 686183 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that person still hasn't seen my talk page note, have they < 1417201864 736236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the walking dead pop < 1417201883 663085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :the working step up < 1417201908 132875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the working setup? < 1417201917 899398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got it < 1417201923 350753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it < 1417201947 396638 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417201982 286169 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-195-2.42-151.net24.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1417202157 295550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so is google speech recognition only going to work in finnish soon < 1417202165 968066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"your expertise" < 1417202409 688494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busy testing speech recognition I physeal I'm testing speech recognition to < 1417202415 464746 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1417202417 173789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fizzy < 1417202432 286014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably even worse < 1417202448 33976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it seems to be better if I don't claim username < 1417202497 60521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so glad when this is speech recognition < 1417202632 675788 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.89.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417202653 375435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :metsästysseura human computer interaction < 1417202678 543854 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the phoyoutubefuture < 1417202698 491443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :having more than one language enabled is probably not a good idea < 1417202712 721039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o YouTube future < 1417202719 341024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dog philosophy < 1417202741 324668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was correct for a moment. Before the trip lasted with the finish world < 1417202754 880265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Angela venture furniture S you N G oh T < 1417202769 844256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :F you and G oh T < 1417202772 451873 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.70.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1417202780 92353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :couple tunnel syndrome < 1417202782 153360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :f you google < 1417202792 121700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a applesauce action < 1417202813 301250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a possible show < 1417202819 548833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a apples < 1417202826 233345 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote navajo < 1417202830 108793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :raision sähköpalvelu grinders < 1417202830 865016 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :722) hang on I have bright idea navajo to f me 1 in 3 people < 1417202840 315215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is apples fault Picture children < 1417202846 444679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plumbing is a actually < 1417202849 851547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurricane < 1417202859 227124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are you using an Apple device < 1417202891 508261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a MacBook < 1417202900 872809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it gets that I Word right < 1417202916 570891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has its priorities in autumn < 1417202927 407890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work very well with the terminal on my accent all my accent all my accent all my accent or my accent < 1417202947 391303 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :epson stylus sx < 1417202957 392853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1417202972 384682 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still down sexy < 1417202982 335121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1417202999 124679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first you don't succeed < 1417203008 374505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :latvia sveitsi live stream < 1417203022 248876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I'm switching this to English only < 1417203031 136372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird it's takes out of her it types out there wrong words but then backspaces and cracked them and corrects them in a split Second < 1417203046 839915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing does that too < 1417203073 731145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come it has given you any Spanish not knot yep yeah yet < 1417203087 337551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come did not give you any Spanish < 1417203136 196515 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only had finish < 1417203137 690935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot you join into can you cannot and Again they can invent Dawn Nathan Doctor doom < 1417203144 97319 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Spanish was a mistake < 1417203155 642508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I have only English subject did < 1417203156 750902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can then Tanya can then oh Tanya was close < 1417203178 366639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanya you should join into in to oh < 1417203192 734642 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help < 1417203201 173379 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did this ages ago and it didn't end well < 1417203202 370762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you meant Ahmed lemon finance 10m kinetic Thunderhead Gangnam < 1417203206 748093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are typing now your tendon you can you you Tanya < 1417203225 872160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Are you hello who < 1417203230 975002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god ain't nothing < 1417203234 629738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the software has improved drastically < 1417203244 908024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try again < 1417203257 411489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was metal and finance 10 m meant to be < 1417203268 754125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :its was a planet < 1417203276 809535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanabe < 1417203282 27740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connecticut thunderhead getting them < 1417203287 330291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so glad it knows gang them < 1417203297 369936 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gangnam style < 1417203315 35793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine doesn't know going < 1417203316 730168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that train this with us out of sorts queries < 1417203326 418558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get tomorrow < 1417203332 362394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get cannot < 1417203337 798372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get Tanya < 1417203361 31102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spelled it out < 1417203369 849532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ta ma be < 1417203374 698956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : Tanabe < 1417203383 92844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : it inserts on that last E < 1417203413 360842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :tanee be < 1417203427 963154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : tanee be Tanabe I am dB < 1417203429 381928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :T a NEVE < 1417203435 97117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TDA MTB < 1417203440 207219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a NEB < 1417203445 46093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :T a NEB < 1417203447 762708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1417203457 349708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAN EB < 1417203460 755840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations < 1417203461 310982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TA and maybe < 1417203486 342535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like voice chat that bad < 1417203489 7674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS A and E B < 1417203490 752411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :breakfast chat but bad < 1417203511 341957 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can get this right < 1417203531 462770 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1417203553 191653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was philosophy osteopathic < 1417203553 560137 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :le up Colin it doesn't know you are an A < 1417203562 322726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages coffee: < 1417203567 732373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just call him coughing < 1417203576 235100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just call him: Colin < 1417203586 475643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good idea < 1417203595 52017 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel bad for the laundry. < 1417203603 512014 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :the log area. < 1417203611 931518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzy isn't so great either < 1417203629 250628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your real name would be worse L Shell so so < 1417203630 315036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite close at least < 1417203632 491695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go < 1417203638 349445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep < 1417203649 879307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :heikki kallasjoki < 1417203653 787394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haiti < 1417203658 345066 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :see it's better if it < 1417203659 474101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at custody < 1417203664 278466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 curfew < 1417203667 463702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it knows my name < 1417203669 323491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can cast < 1417203673 431484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom < 1417203677 306478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also knows where I live < 1417203691 111892 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : are you chatting with speech recognition I want to try to this is fun < 1417203696 279173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't know my birthday when I asked < 1417203705 327508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :honey doesn't look as my recognise my name at all < 1417203718 263318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're my honeymoon < 1417203731 812635 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Elliot and fizzy < 1417203747 375606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i on what device are you using Autobots truck driver < 1417203755 940103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up < 1417203769 226805 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google voice input on a samsung galaxy phone < 1417203781 72729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is Google Voice invite on the Nexus tablet < 1417203784 101166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busy MacBook is this actually getting married < 1417203804 233773 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :honeymoon after getting married < 1417203815 707964 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this entire channel has become a recursive markov chain ... < 1417203816 566755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too complicated can you walk me to it < 1417203835 672021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Jake Kean < 1417203840 383743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete dark < 1417203845 637059 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot please help < 1417203845 780020 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this i do believe so! excuse to stomp! little does the dromiceiomimus know that i intend to do today! we can't hang out in paradise, alone, to raise the friggin'. fragile, species can survive their electrical onslaught < 1417203861 794950 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing. Explicit punctuation seems to work. < 1417203863 800986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colin and cheap keen < 1417203866 316676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to stop talking in the middle of fun and got < 1417203880 352846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am calling I tried suicide calling but it didn't recognize < 1417203885 408918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1417203889 925420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion < 1417203891 889053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1417203917 308800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :peace and police officer please don't call yourself busy < 1417203922 658231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you self visit < 1417203926 167665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill yourself fitting < 1417203929 279931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion:and get drunk show a shin is sometimes but not often < 1417203931 522253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill yourself busy fizzy < 1417203937 152795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :punctuation < 1417203952 185049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in then don't < 1417203961 192275 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have trouble importing fungal < 1417203970 829309 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Tong-it < 1417203976 704954 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : target < 1417203980 113922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what I was trying to say when it recognize it by side < 1417203984 289346 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fungus < 1417203993 376532 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hung up < 1417203995 79059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have trouble importing fungal to < 1417204006 619495 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg https://github.com/jhallen/joes-sandbox/tree/master/exorsim/mpl < 1417204013 690904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :try saying fun than typing to post tense tense I got < 1417204016 374513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you still tan sexy fizzy < 1417204030 42010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I insist a lot of sexy < 1417204054 557811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the so funny < 1417204126 417169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be getting married fizzy < 1417204129 333325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1417204136 359591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1417204144 806913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are you are getting married to < 1417204169 665282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzy you're my honeymoon < 1417204187 306592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love speech recognition < 1417204216 833345 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1417204238 391563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't think you can get somebody to talk concept < 1417204285 774901 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was wrong with using a keyboard? < 1417204287 30352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can talk and settlement all I want < 1417204295 899985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the future on Oren < 1417204300 272903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the future < 1417204327 731617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so much more convenient this way < 1417204329 265035 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when there are 25 people in the room with you < 1417204341 57836 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.89.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417204350 202303 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all talking into their computers < 1417204358 829975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Called party < 1417204360 9919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that sounds good < 1417204377 341712 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me keyboard is better and I can type fast too < 1417204378 852379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he loves problems like that fizzy < 1417204387 669158 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking into the computer is good if you want a sound recording though < 1417204399 541771 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't need a sound recording < 1417204402 532803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I want to send according I can progress into speech since that < 1417204411 956639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I want a sound recording I can progress into synthesiser < 1417204471 464174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big hugs the dogs < 1417204471 627479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's the best apps Mario's full on the phone with no good kid lock < 1417204476 814851 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.71.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417204493 698783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :invite in public is probably Mario s photo on phone with no good keyboard < 1417204505 288959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :voice input models for < 1417204513 639398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :lot of useful < 1417204519 634038 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough < 1417204569 78117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I see Marie's photo < 1417204644 346733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :checklist google image search < 1417204670 750281 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-51.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1417205851 697433 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.71.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1417206224 278568 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should try speech-recognizer | bash | speech-synthesizer < 1417206269 513561 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07GridScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41231&oldid=41230 5* 0371.184.241.244 5* (+543) 10 < 1417206338 554673 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually my colleague my speech recognizer into xD O'Toole < 1417206348 753028 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it would type into any window that has focus < 1417206354 372609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :steel tool < 1417206361 805624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to write one paragraph of my teeth is using it < 1417206364 652086 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm not an engineer, I don't know. < 1417206368 455235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't go well < 1417206370 320137 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, wrong channel, sorry < 1417206454 32439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :X d o tool < 1417206502 859144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was kind of dangerous < 1417206549 104475 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? xdotool? Isn't that for moving windows around and such? < 1417206557 337392 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD O'Toole is a good name for software < 1417206670 378687 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, a different one according to the logs. Speaking of which, why didn't znc replay the log like it is configured to when I reconnected? < 1417206708 912467 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, why didn't znc replay the log like it is configured to? < 1417206709 94661 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: dromiceiomimus, i don't! < 1417206831 447670 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.70.95 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417206921 514081 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@2602:30a:c021:220:25e6:33c6:a0ab:49d6 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417207370 53043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you can use it to type 2 < 1417207392 909768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to moving windows and stuff < 1417207413 296464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pretends to be a kid lot < 1417207422 825377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :send stupid a key events < 1417207443 118139 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "keyboard"? < 1417207485 107522 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :translating speech recognition output → english is quite tricky at times < 1417207485 290944 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1417207668 392384 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1417207694 565416 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to say to cabal "fix mixed versions"? I.e rebuild any packages depending on different versions of a package so that everything just works, and I don't get weird errors. < 1417207704 582621 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1417207980 884184 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1417208025 240955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :using cabal sandbox is probably the best option but I'm a year+ out of date with haskell < 1417208031 277650 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1417208045 372085 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, gentoo managed to make this shit work, so why can't haskell < 1417208063 770806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1417208073 390406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the problem is inherently hard. cabal has some questionable behaviour in response to it, though < 1417208091 570621 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed < 1417208123 976975 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with it telling me that "these packages will need to be rebuilt if you update this package, do you want me to do that, recursively?" < 1417208142 755816 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.70.95 QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1417208149 782953 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or of course "this will break, and the version restrictions in the dependencies make it unsolvable" < 1417208174 984790 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should never let me end up in a state where I have a pretty much broken environment < 1417208190 356201 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes it would need rollback support < 1417208210 9754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does gentoo actually allow coinstallation of multiple versions? < 1417208279 766295 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not in general, but for some packages that marks it as ok (for example, kernel, major gcc versions, ...) < 1417208329 183705 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have infrastructure for rebuilding broken packages though < 1417208361 783312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cabal allows multiple versions of the same package. so the problem is fundamentally different < 1417208411 188822 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I'd in general prefer to not have multiple versions because right now I'm dealing with two different packages that want different versions of a common dependency < 1417208428 31409 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have to rebuild stuff, but I can't find any automated way to do it < 1417208433 106515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you sure you'd prefer that? what about when half of the library ecosystem depends on QuickCheck 2 and the other half QuickCheck 3? < 1417208439 975761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which half do you prefer? < 1417208446 773390 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a problem yes < 1417208466 749549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo has control over all its packages < 1417208472 147404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can avoid things like that < 1417208475 703350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want something like that, check out stackage. < 1417208487 469562 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, however, what am I supposed to do when I have B needs A1 and C needs A1 and I need to exchange A-data between B and C < 1417208497 199410 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1417208504 68078 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is my current issue < 1417208515 395831 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will check that out, thanks < 1417208516 646978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you typo'd somewhere there < 1417208525 257060 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err yea, A1 and A2 < 1417208561 368720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nothing on earth can solve that problem. it is true that it is all too easy to get multiple versions of a library linked within a single *program*, which is only okay if those libraries are implementation details for other libraries you use, basically. < 1417208575 501473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you *can* work with multiple ones explicitly with PackageImports I think, but please god don't) < 1417208591 5915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal sandbox would help avoid that because it'd install your dependencies "all at once" < 1417208605 420183 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, It isn't like B or C actually need different versions of A, it is just they ended up being built against different versions < 1417208618 661178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, hence my cabal sandbox remark < 1417208621 932544 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1417208669 437192 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I added C to the project much later, I guess in that case I would have to rebuild the sandbox from scratch? I will have to look into how that works. And stackage. And find out which option is best for me. < 1417208686 540350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget if it'd just work or not. < 1417208696 411712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stackage is something you use *with* the sandbox, generally, I think < 1417208701 164338 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah okay < 1417208704 447538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about the sandbox is that your projects are fully isolated from each other < 1417208713 837081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think by now "rebuild" may not actually be rebuilding, because cabal caches builds properly < 1417208732 986013 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :My main point here is that there doesn't seem to be much help for you once you run into an issue like that. On gentoo at least there is tools to clean up the mess. < 1417208799 986362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to clean up with cabal sandbox. < 1417208802 107537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just blow away the sandbox. < 1417208813 580905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't isolate, then the analogy is rm -rf ~/.cabal < 1417208827 323630 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't isolate, because I didn't know I could do that. < 1417208839 424728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1417208841 339953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I told you :p < 1417208848 863189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree the haskell library experience is hell. < 1417208862 511660 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Scrip714]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41232&oldid=41167 5* 03Orenwatson 5* (+423) 10better interpreter version, brainfuck interpreter < 1417208899 922913 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Also that will take a while to rebuild, because one of the libraries in there has like 100 of deps... (not related to the issue though). < 1417208918 173365 :tlewkow!~tlewkow@172-2-16-34.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1417208919 142826 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its so simple.. just create a different user for each project! < 1417208922 540926 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then cabal dont broke! < 1417208927 463130 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah < 1417209042 45355 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I definitely think cabal could do a much better job of preventing situations like this and helping you fix them. < 1417209071 311279 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should look into how NixOS does this. Since it allows multiple versions to co-exist < 1417209104 304310 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you happen to know how nixos deals with this? < 1417209115 241778 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be a much better analogy than gentoo in fact < 1417209199 571827 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the requirement that a pointer to memory be a fixed size in memory make a language turing-incomplete? < 1417209224 84469 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a finite number of possible states rules out turing completeness, yes < 1417209236 350214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Mondeo system also I love smoking bowl out of snow < 1417209254 111854 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#420 < 1417209259 377151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://modules.sourceforge.net/ < 1417209272 239102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very simple though < 1417209299 325586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheated by copying pasting the f you out of hell < 1417209307 688143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :rural < 1417209314 93770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know < 1417209319 813250 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :" the Mondeo system also I love smoking bowl out of snow" <-- what < 1417209338 432725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :the muscular system of a lot of installing multiple lation < 1417209351 144809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more the old system the money he owes < 1417209351 783759 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you drunk? < 1417209358 617125 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's using voice recognition < 1417209360 954017 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :the module system < 1417209361 97249 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1417209361 758387 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically yes < 1417209377 756429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go I was pronouncing it wrong < 1417209394 245149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the module system allows installing multiple version < 1417209421 63325 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why are you using voice recognition? < 1417209430 514333 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :just practicing < 1417209432 265725 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what? < 1417209453 106068 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1417209472 766270 :Oren!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1417209489 929040 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because C requires ability to acesss pointers to arrays of pointers, so pointers have to have a fixed size < 1417209497 205985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will start working for Google Nexus. Or so I thought I'd try out what about system its like < 1417209502 442149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :next year < 1417209536 821712 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Nexus? Cool < 1417209537 336399 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means the set of languages in the real world that are turing complete is rather small < 1417209548 447457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not the Nexus next year < 1417209605 511913 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_, unless you do some tricky stuff with IO to add extra storage. For a non-seekable file (i.e. pipe), there is no size limit as far as I know < 1417209658 434203 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! that could work < 1417209678 659782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of external the language love < 1417209729 702107 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes use a pipe to self as an infinite queue, probably needs POSIX on top of C though, don't think the pipe functions are in standard C < 1417209748 572799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :prostate spike buck Futter sought a very limited in size < 1417209756 972970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffers < 1417209763 678045 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude.... < 1417209774 389104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prostate spike buck Futter < 1417209782 424978 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipe buffer sizes < 1417209790 873105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't work but it well otto technical topics < 1417209791 703636 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sorry? < 1417209806 352555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll cheat with a keyboard for a moment. < 1417209808 618506 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says pipe buffers are small < 1417209815 8975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't write an infinite amount into a POSIX pipe. < 1417209816 610473 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_, how did you decode that < 1417209822 854159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skill, I assume. < 1417209828 255371 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1417209828 664223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you speak it out loud and imagine it's muffled and look at context that can help < 1417209835 839610 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well that is a technical limitation of the real world, ulimit and so on < 1417209841 176228 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that in my head yeah < 1417209841 350933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"posix pipe buffers are very limited in size" < 1417209855 826030 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't you address a potentially infinite amount of files in C? < 1417209861 988772 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hm < 1417209873 399389 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is technically a limit on the length of the filename < 1417209881 243322 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes in the real world they are very limited, and so is RAM. but I don't know that it is specified to not be potentially infinite < 1417209882 891911 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the filename has to be in RAM < 1417209889 444378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: did you, like, logread old #esoteric arguments about C turing completeness < 1417209900 45384 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1417209923 331844 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering if my language scrip7 could possibly be turing complete. < 1417209929 102803 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes, it becomes number of possible files * sizeof(fpos_t) or something like that < 1417209938 170600 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is HUGE, but not infinite < 1417209953 698402 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems probably not < 1417209957 191928 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1417209975 57086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is irrelevant for that < 1417209978 941809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your language is defined in terms of C < 1417209979 251803 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language has to be quite abstract to be turing complete it seems < 1417209999 883994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, C is just unusually airtight in that respect, IMO < 1417210000 995247 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language inherits many features from C but has a terse syntax < 1417210015 252204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The fact that PIPE_BUF is defined kind of implies there must be a limit. < 1417210018 591152 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :features like pointer arthmetic < 1417210033 426341 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh < 1417210034 898595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Scrip7, does anything in the language prevent you from making pointers bignums? < 1417210035 124195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's possible it's not quite entirely explicitly required. < 1417210061 462537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The references to PIPE_BUF are mostly about atomicity and behaviour w.r.t. blocking.) < 1417210076 271634 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1417210094 850831 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that defined? I don't have the PDF on this computer, so I'm trying to find the man page < 1417210096 36278 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you are supposed to be able to go o>i to access the ith element of a list of pointers at o < 1417210097 965232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's indeed defined as the "maximum number of bytes that is guaranteed to be atomic", so. < 1417210112 833570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: that's fine < 1417210122 346262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: just imagine an abstract model of the language where pointers are represented by arbitrary natural numbers < 1417210131 991421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and memory is an infinite list of those < 1417210141 42957 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1417210155 668078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if you can access things as chars then you can "see" the representation of bignums which might be awkward < 1417210155 964250 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:25] < Oren_> a language has to be quite abstract to be turing complete it seems < 1417210167 129637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The constant's defined in the POSIX spec of . But you're right that maybe it's not strictly speaking a limit for the maximum amount of pending data. It's of course not defined by C. < 1417210168 29138 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C integers can be unbounded size, no? < 1417210178 139272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: No. < 1417210184 688500 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the standard mandate a finite size? < 1417210192 537464 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there is intmax.h or something < 1417210198 137328 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yeah I don't think pure C can be made TC < 1417210205 711200 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: At least you can make a strong argument that the value of sizeof must be a finite number. < 1417210215 985985 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah. < 1417210221 770533 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1417210234 960669 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously someone needs to make a C variant! < 1417210242 893084 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is C++ TC? < 1417210252 866408 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of made a c variant < 1417210263 324728 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, only at compile time, and with infinite template evaluation depth iirc < 1417210264 136210 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: does C++ include the C++ preprocessor? < 1417210270 1953 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has different syntax but very similar semantics < 1417210274 468428 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to C < 1417210279 522703 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I don't think so :( < 1417210300 447132 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, the preprocessor of C and C++ is limited, maximum recursion depth and so on < 1417210308 217416 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least C as it is commonly implemented on x86 < 1417210319 33322 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did make a factorial function using GHC's type system < 1417210325 959836 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think it is specified as a "at least" though < 1417210327 127790 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: by spec? < 1417210339 849899 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 'at least' is fine :P < 1417210341 715535 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs surprisingly quickly, but if you ask for the factorial of some big numbers things go wrong < 1417210346 360658 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bound in the "right" direction < 1417210357 21340 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, not quite sure. It is something like "at least x recursive include", not sure if has to limit it at all < 1417210366 874470 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think when log_2 (n!) > 200 or so) < 1417210374 882600 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1417210391 526382 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I recommend checking the spec, which I don't have downloaded on this computer < 1417210422 694727 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, similar for the recusion of templates in C++, "at least x iterations" < 1417210442 983158 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure GCC limits both though < 1417210448 476488 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And neither is at runtime of course < 1417210457 406310 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC isn;t the spec tho < 1417210492 466781 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some madman might have made a wildly screwed up compiler that breaks conventions < 1417210507 936003 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the C preprocessor is generally considered not TC, but I've forgotten the argument against why recursive include doesn't make it so. < 1417210510 662386 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well obviously, but it is a common implementation. Just saying it isn't viable to use it practically < 1417210515 499573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The macro expansion has explicit no-recursion rules. < 1417210516 332070 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allows as many templates as there is memory for < 1417210540 424285 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, C++ templates are TC I'm fairly certain though < 1417210545 989410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The templates are, yes. < 1417210561 175914 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again with infinite recursion < 1417210563 289793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you allow repeated executions of the C preprocessor, with the output fed in as the new input, it is too, I believe. < 1417210595 472898 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp can't generate newline < 1417210604 820459 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1417210615 73951 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the number of lines decreases each iteration of cpp < 1417210623 563885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it could stay equal < 1417210627 843931 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1417210632 244004 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no need for it to be multiple lines either < 1417210638 380311 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :What matters is statements < 1417210644 722339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean. You know, this thing: http://www.ioccc.org/2001/herrmann1.hint < 1417210651 814160 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define isn't a statement < 1417210663 893518 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ends at newline not ; < 1417210682 606447 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but you can't generate directives anyway < 1417210685 564911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know if it's TC or not. it can implement a functional language < 1417210689 709509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem to be weirdly limited somehow though < 1417210695 910417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out how to even do the things the wizards do with it < 1417210708 969242 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_, also look at the Boost Preprocessor library, it is quite interesting how much you actually CAN do with it < 1417210724 322211 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't boost C++ tho < 1417210728 344754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaos-pp/order-pp are IMO the most interesting preprocessor abuses. < 1417210742 727399 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_, Sure but the preprocessor bit is basically the same for both < 1417210748 387998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they too have some non-TC upper bounds. < 1417210765 77775 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is chaos-pp/order-pp? < 1417210767 32571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, what is order-pp's upper bound? < 1417210768 389279 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates < 1417210769 886858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the language i was talking about < 1417210773 703799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/rofl0r/order-pp/blob/master/example/fibonacci.c < 1417210786 507828 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that, and also the P99 library < 1417210787 947964 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/rofl0r/chaos-pp/blob/master/chaos/preprocessor/algorithm/merge_sort.h ... < 1417210792 75690 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unless you are already convinced, you should check, by preprocessing this example, that the actual parameter to `printf' in the above code is just a single string that contains the 500th Fibonacci number in base 10." < 1417210805 546522 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC, it's configurable. But it must be an integer. < 1417210821 883304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but I mean, what's it an upper bound *on*? < 1417210829 472027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduction steps? < 1417210846 80884 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, hm okay < 1417210857 786218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would really like cpp to be TC... < 1417210882 780050 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://p99.gforge.inria.fr/ < 1417210884 901690 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1417210949 661327 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think the boost preprocessor library has more powerful stuff < 1417210956 885264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Something like that. It's part of chaos, and that's even more confusing than order. Something something exponential. < 1417210996 156507 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, Well I seen some simple Boost PP code evaluating lists of stuff and such mostly < 1417211013 940348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: should just click fizie's fibonacci link :p < 1417211020 69298 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1417211023 483955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/:// < 1417211042 180145 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no I can't read it :P < 1417211078 209536 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those lists are limited to 255 elements in boost preprocessor though < 1417211081 884219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing with all the 8s seems to be characteristic of preprocessor things that "go too far". < 1417211095 117165 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sometimes it's some other number.) < 1417211125 258124 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the 8 mean? < 1417211132 336438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a number. < 1417211155 372822 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it need to be a number? < 1417211155 577790 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some sort of intuition why it's required, but I've completely blacked that out. < 1417211158 405284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1417211161 338051 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird < 1417211191 302788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stops it being interpreted as a preprocessor token thingy, I think < 1417211195 870349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1417211232 508899 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1417211252 49933 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1417211278 346972 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yah, did i mention the bf interpreter for scrip7 expands the memory dynamically? < 1417211282 447103 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q=(a>1S=PS+NS~ON*2bNNO=PN/2O+NaS0N*2#H+3G=H`) < 1417211304 228669 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, is that a chemical formula? < 1417211313 260589 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a function in scrip7 < 1417211332 317385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"8foo" is a single pp-number in the translation phase that decomposes the source to preprocessing tokens. < 1417211335 743184 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it conditionally expands the bf memory if it needs to < 1417211340 744973 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, Boost PP should be usable in C I assume < 1417211347 511298 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it deliberately try to look like a chemical formula? < 1417211353 115097 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1417211364 875495 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i see what you mean < 1417211371 872093 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :smiles doesn't use tildes i don't think < 1417211379 414955 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with NN0 and such < 1417211391 360840 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NaS0N < 1417211393 845972 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero nitrogens? < 1417211398 466875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "pp-number" syntax includes just about everything that starts with a digit, it can be followed by arbitrary identifier characters. < 1417211425 56127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still a pp-number and doesn't participate in macro expansion and such in the same way as identifiers; it probably has something to do with that.) < 1417211430 857768 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :N is register 5 accessed as a 64bit int < 1417211455 429492 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O is register 0 acessed as an adress < 1417211458 115393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I didn't realize order-pp grew out of the Boost preprocessor library: https://github.com/rofl0r/order-pp/blob/master/README.md < 1417211498 557540 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because someone went completely bonkers? < 1417211520 972567 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the boost way, man < 1417211553 157180 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, smiles uses @@ for stereochemistry. bizarre < 1417211558 568629 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently order-pp has (.) < 1417211570 456644 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :"8compose(f, g) : (a -> b) -> (c -> a) -> (c -> b)" < 1417211655 778985 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is equality test becuase = was taken by assignment < 1417211716 71142 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, that looks haskellish < 1417211719 644735 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of chemical formula uses *2 tho? < 1417211738 209706 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: looks like the type signatures in https://github.com/rofl0r/order-pp/blob/master/doc/notes.txt are haskell-inspired < 1417211740 476452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: rather, chaos-pp did < 1417211754 264392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that repo is chaos-pp with all the parts that aren't needed for order-pp removed, I guess < 1417211754 488929 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it < 1417211791 22125 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: is : used for anything? < 1417211813 468051 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, so which one should you use? chaos or order? < 1417211813 611729 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :: is used for "set and move forward" < 1417211823 912818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're different things. < 1417211827 181260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaos-pp is a cpp library. < 1417211831 474471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :order-pp is a language implemented in cpp. < 1417211834 216576 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1417211836 243062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses chaos-pp, I think. < 1417211845 832475 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you have (struct){int i; long j; char *s} < 1417211873 516051 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :K has : for assignment and = for equality, at any rate < 1417211875 328088 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you do i:4 I:2 o:"foobar" to set each variable in turn < 1417211911 417921 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this grew out of a config file format < 1417211920 120161 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a game < 1417211953 238689 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :A config file that is essentially compressed C? < 1417211958 673152 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes now config files can modify arbitrary memory inside the game < 1417211968 675787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful < 1417211968 885042 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is interpreted < 1417212003 258540 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it uses ragisters, not variables < 1417212004 760105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8paste(l, r) : a -> b -> c -where 8isnt_edible(r) < 1417212006 349210 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it's not too different from emacs' config files < 1417212020 49296 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are lisp iirc < 1417212198 261625 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my game was any good I'd postit < 1417212204 979771 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sucks < 1417212304 208875 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: well, that looks like it's easily turing complete to me. you can allocate memory, point into it with several pointers, move those pointers, read and write through them, you have loops and conditionals (even if I'm not sure how those conditionals and loops work). < 1417212365 473783 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conditionals are skips: i~0 skdkasj # will skip to the # if the 0 register points to a 32 bit value of zero < 1417212387 711869 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: so they skip to the next # commadn? < 1417212395 104449 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1417212398 304749 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good < 1417212403 381872 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and $ is unconditional jump < 1417212410 242258 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the # command itself is a no-op? < 1417212413 716048 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1417212417 141970 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you loop? < 1417212438 908563 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(){}[] are all unconditional loops inside unconditional jumps < 1417212452 444029 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1417212460 847379 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can exit from them with a skip instruction < 1417212467 734732 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek goto b a: goto a b: < 1417212480 7815 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1417212485 978124 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's really needed, but is there an easy way to have a nested if? < 1417212495 403198 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1417212501 462779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: C has all those properties too < 1417212519 520943 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course. < 1417212523 721649 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse condition and use i!0{# dfsdsdf} < 1417212535 691697 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: ok < 1417212538 124220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't TC. < 1417212556 981908 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: meh, it's turing-complete enough for my purposes. < 1417212562 255716 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrip7 should be about as TC as C < 1417212604 865762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but the topic was whether scrip7 was actually TC, with the (correct) assumption that C isn't. < 1417212620 205423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C is not turing complete enough for esowiki categorisation, say, which is relevant here) < 1417212632 735688 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: what I don't understand is, why are the registers of different types aliased? wouldn't it be better if they were separate, and there was a command for assigning the pointer from one to another? < 1417212661 819277 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can easily set a bunch of members of a struct in order < 1417212672 626611 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: in fact, are there commands to read and write the address where a register is pointing to to the memory? < 1417212691 218354 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah easy : P=p < 1417212710 784570 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's what the addr type does! < 1417212716 835983 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense, thanks < 1417212725 92138 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets the value of the pointer itself < 1417212750 126235 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also explains how the G register works < 1417212765 604948 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's how you make subroutines < 1417212772 972880 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just computed gotos < 1417212785 606997 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by convention i've been using H to store the return address < 1417212814 792136 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at the bf interpreter the > and < commands use subroutines < 1417212829 629697 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really more of a compiler... < 1417212851 105021 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns bf into scrip7 and then jumps directly into that code < 1417212923 10209 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: I see < 1417212971 529749 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: scrip7 also looks like it's almost compilable, but not quite, because writes to the G register could be a bit difficult to compile < 1417213006 245946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably still compile it, you'd just have to try to figure out some of the easier cases of writing to G, and if any remains, handle it with a big indirect jump table < 1417213029 337446 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. even if you don't support jumping to data space You would need to ensure that each instruction's compiled form is the same size < 1417213038 348846 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1417213038 860449 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417213070 217861 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: you don't really have to if there's a table mapping the scrip7 addresses to compiled addresses < 1417213081 220964 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's the problem that the scrip7 can have self-modifying code < 1417213081 522180 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1417213085 677017 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing into its own code < 1417213091 563984 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's allowed, you can't really compile < 1417213096 144073 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not efficiently at least < 1417213101 37580 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because basically any instruction could write there < 1417213112 763791 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.... but semantics of that are just as undefined as writing to a function pointer in C < 1417213136 117429 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you forbid that and also forbid wild indirect jumps, you could compile it pretty efficiently < 1417213150 332986 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *a = printf; < 1417213177 919590 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops need a cast through (void*) < 1417213208 560072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really through void *. < 1417213216 428815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Casting it directly to char * is no better or worse. < 1417213233 903423 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yeah. < 1417213242 557741 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it does need a cast.) < 1417213265 770949 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using (void*) is instinct < 1417213283 368357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't work the other way around, anyway. < 1417213305 357982 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-51.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417213317 207776 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-118-42.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :main is usually a function < 1417213331 336204 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :((void (*)(char*))"Hello, world")("Foobar"); < 1417213342 209134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *data; int (*f)(int) = (int (*)(int))data; needs a cast to the function pointer type, and going to a void * won't help. < 1417213419 320826 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :line that i wrote above compiles with GCC < 1417213437 258971 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's nothing "wrong" with it. < 1417213451 510027 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: interesting < 1417213470 678002 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything about it is evil, but you could theoretically use that for inline machine code < 1417213481 831138 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: but what I don't see is how you're using this as a configuration format? < 1417213496 626218 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on very many systems. < 1417213500 202551 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Becasue the interpreter gets a pointer to the data space < 1417213520 975058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we had some machine code oneliners here, but they're complicated by an ugly required mprotect call. < 1417213521 469279 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :void scrip7(char *code,void *data); < 1417213544 604384 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you pass in a struct for the data, your code can alter the contents of that < 1417213553 905324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: ok < 1417213609 579528 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the main in scrip7.c is a weak symbol so the one in my game overrides it < 1417213633 233001 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while compiling it alone gives you an interpreter < 1417213665 676728 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :using such a low-level language as configuration file language sounds a bit unsafe, but whatever suits you < 1417213702 684084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'const char f[] = "1\xc0""1\xff""1\xd2\xff\xc0\xff\xc7H\x8d""5\n\0\0\0\xb2\x06\x0f\x05\xb0<1\xff\x0f\x05hello\n"; int main(void) { mprotect((void *)((unsigned long)f&~0xffful), 0x1000, 7); ((void (*)())f)(); }' | gcc -x c - -o /tmp/x && /tmp/x # with some implicit function declaration action < 1417213703 916933 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point was for the configuration to be able to allocate memory for wtrings and such < 1417213704 799156 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1417213715 406274 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1417213740 310780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runc int main() {} < 1417213743 460895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it called? < 1417213744 195195 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1417213760 488357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's `runc and `! c, but I always forget their peculiarities. < 1417213775 801241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One needs all \s doubled because it allows \n so that you can use preprocessor directives. < 1417213776 665928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat `which runc` < 1417213779 586397 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ t=`tempfile` \ echo -e "$@" | gcc -trigraphs -o $t -x c - 2>/dev/null && $t \ rm $t < 1417213786 134936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-trigraphs????? < 1417213787 702095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1417213791 538122 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, #esoteric. < 1417213795 224102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that because there's a trigraph for newlines or something < 1417213798 580509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat ibin/c < 1417213800 250 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ interp_file "./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp c" < 1417213800 143055 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1417213800 899954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly both of them need \\s, actually. < 1417213811 14594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat interps/gcccomp/gcccomp < 1417213812 379760 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ LANG="$1" \ echo >>"$2" \ \ case "$LANG" in \ c) \ HEAD='#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \nint main(int argc, char **argv) {' \ TAIL='; return 0; }' \ EXT='c' \ GCC='gcc' \ FLAGS='-std=gnu99' \ ;; \ \ c++) < 1417213821 233398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url interps/gcccomp/gcccomp < 1417213822 910068 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/interps/gcccomp/gcccomp < 1417213826 666902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one has the "try it with a main function" thing. < 1417213830 848898 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there one that's like geordi, translating backslashes outside strings to newlines? < 1417213842 585200 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like candide, you mean. :p < 1417213849 300939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The ##c answer to ##c++'s geordi.) < 1417213856 438880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, we don't have anything fancy. < 1417213877 663751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! asm jmp *0 < 1417213878 667172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The \! c is closest in that it tries compiling with a provided main wrapper first. < 1417213879 944702 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 53: 307 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ < 1417213882 371868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1417213882 553022 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, it would have to tokenize C for that, which isn't trivial with comments and raw strings and trigraphs and suchlikes < 1417213901 569137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you could maybe do something with libclang. < 1417213972 285263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c int main(void) { puts("foo"); } /* there's also this problem */ < 1417213975 681699 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1417214001 47359 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because it turns into int main(void) { int main(void) { puts("foo"); } return 0; } which compiles and runs just fine. < 1417214014 174732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that actually legal C99? < 1417214018 551843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it's legal GCC. < 1417214020 891622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, nested functions aren't C99 < 1417214029 282456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't main reserved or something? can you really shadow functions?? < 1417214034 938321 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested functions are GCC11 or something < 1417214042 880266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect they're gcc89 < 1417214045 329381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do int f(void) { int f = 42; return f; } so why not? < 1417214053 136325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gnu89, rather < 1417214054 395393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an attempt to add some flags that disable nested functions, but that ran into some other issue that I forget. < 1417214059 32928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I guess, yeah. < 1417214062 352107 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gcc puts everything into the default version < 1417214078 53182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: probably it broke doing int f() { return 42; } printf("%d\n", f()); or such < 1417214096 195792 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't it just try to link without the wrapper first, then recompile and link with the wrapper if it fails to link? < 1417214097 19011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c int main(void) { puts("you can do this but it's real silly"); } main(); < 1417214099 386982 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do this but it's real silly < 1417214107 562079 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just grep -qw main < 1417214129 258031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c void main() { puts("see, this is the right signature after all"); } main(); < 1417214131 795769 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, this is the right signature after all < 1417214152 450186 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ogodno < 1417214163 563677 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ogodno.gif < 1417214176 65596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1417214217 277141 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>canigreentext < 1417214219 724890 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1417214274 636760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not unless you want me to ban ou < 1417214275 857588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1417214288 670479 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. < 1417214341 932169 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode NICK :Sargon_ < 1417214364 589757 :Sargon_!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode NICK :dts < 1417214378 150197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i -e '47s/SOURCE/2/;48s/2/SOURCE/' interps/gcccomp/gcccomp # now that you mention it, I see no immediate reason why the order could not just be swapped < 1417214379 795648 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1417214398 392532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c int main(void) { puts("foo"); } < 1417214400 753789 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1417214406 683437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c puts("bar"); < 1417214409 284054 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar < 1417214446 250555 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c puts("\e[32mdoes this work"); < 1417214448 872704 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​does this work < 1417214456 140750 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1417214477 543166 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c puts("\33[32mdoes this work"); < 1417214480 93206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​does this work < 1417214505 338575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what was the other old unix box you have, an SGI Indy and a...? < 1417214510 29377 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better, use the convention geordi does: if the code starts with an open bracket, then find the block of code (again not so easy), move it to the end, and make it the main functino < 1417214512 198812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SparcStation 5. < 1417214544 267343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right. I wonder if you can run Windows NT 4.0 on the SGI Indy. < 1417214547 234023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sure would be something. < 1417214553 470379 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1417214559 915565 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even possible? < 1417214560 342887 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad has a AIX box still running < 1417214575 87468 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no idea what sort of machines the MIPS port of Windows NT ran on. < 1417214575 231148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: windows used to support alpha, mips and powerpc, didn't you know? :) < 1417214584 119310 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1417214586 810978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1417214598 117701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I don't think it's SGI machines though. < 1417214604 76285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can't find much in the way of third-party binaries, but they aren't nonexistent, either. < 1417214609 76452 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes Mac moving to intel not a big deal < 1417214619 409369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mean, nobody actually /used/ this < 1417214631 741033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I think the Alpha port got some use because the chip could emulate x86 pretty well or something < 1417214648 94200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows NT was deliberately designed to be very portable, though < 1417214650 182158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1417214661 839183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently ARC-compliant MIPS systems. < 1417214662 704458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they designed it on a random Intel RISC chip that they never actually shipped it on to ensure that < 1417214669 600641 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really? I thought it supported only one architecture besides x86, possibly if you don't count intel64 which was later < 1417214671 227277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's even borderline possible, because Indy is on that list. < 1417214674 815100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Really. < 1417214685 682467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nice. < 1417214693 47703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows NT 3.1 was released for Intel x86 PC compatible, DEC Alpha, and ARC-compliant MIPS platforms. Windows NT 3.51 added support for the PowerPC processor in 1995, specifically PReP-compliant systems such as the IBM Power Series desktops/laptops and Motorola PowerStack series; --" < 1417214712 478741 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1417214716 891431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it would reveal how much of a dork I am if I said having a real live non-x86 machine running Windows has been a pipe dream of mine for years now, right? < 1417214727 848003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'd get absolutely no use out of it. < 1417214732 926526 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean non-emulated, right? < 1417214734 122362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what a beautiful object it'd be. < 1417214738 654759 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because emulated it'd be easy < 1417214740 452633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I said real live :p < 1417214750 899196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it emulated, I think, maybe. it's not as easy as it should be. < 1417214756 440137 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I mean the box would be real live, but it ran an x86 emulator with windows in it < 1417214764 513614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well that's boring < 1417214766 810024 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the config that would be easy < 1417214768 419170 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a NES, I was born in 1993 when the SNES was getting old < 1417214774 746837 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm a dork too < 1417214776 172618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Intergraph Corporation ported Windows NT to its Clipper architecture and later announced intention to port Windows NT 3.51 to Sun Microsystems' SPARC architecture,[41] but neither version was sold to the public as a retail product." You should try to get hold of that. < 1417214784 136453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: woooow < 1417214793 85191 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap < 1417214803 795698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has bricked two PPC macs trying to get unix onto them < 1417214811 807011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though "announced intention" is particularly vague. < 1417214839 450212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I should track down Dave Cutler and pry the Intel i860 version of NT from his cold, dead hands. < 1417214850 705007 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I run an emulated windows 3.11, but that's on an x86_64 machine) < 1417214872 253789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wonder how hard it'd be to get NT 4 running on a PPC mac < 1417214875 258127 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have like 300 DOS games < 1417214875 421519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, very hard, I'm sure. < 1417214881 612995 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this computer < 1417214884 684399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds kind of like a small matter of (lots and lots of) programming. < 1417214890 317079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd be so beautiful. < 1417214900 523242 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooo beautifulll < 1417214915 728377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was browsing through my closets the other day (looking for a UK-compatible power cable I knew I had somewhere), and came across the 13W3-to-4xBNC monitor cable for the Sparc/Indy (they share the same Sun 13W3 display connector), and a 25-pin-serial to 9-pin-serial cable I think I used as a serial console for one of them. < 1417214919 676354 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a moon landing or something < 1417214968 221998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm slightly worried about is that I didn't locate the 13W3-to-13W3 cable that used to connect the Indy to its own SGI-issue monitor. But maybe it's in the basement wrapped around the monitor or something. < 1417215001 682015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure the computers are still there? how do you know they haven't fleed? < 1417215010 302687 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your house is like mine then they are still there < 1417215021 456691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, I just realised NTFS = NT FS < 1417215039 702375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the second most obvious thing I've ever missed < 1417215041 265333 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does NT stand for? < 1417215055 706786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :N-Ten < 1417215059 89414 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott has bricked two PPC macs trying to get unix onto them <-- what? how? < 1417215062 959738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, 13W3 is the silliest connector: it's like a regular "D-style" connector, with 10 regular pins, and then 3 tiny tiny coax-style pins. < 1417215064 588880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the i680 was codenamed N10. < 1417215065 969293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB13W3#mediaviewer/File:13W3_Stecker.jpg < 1417215068 273553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it's "New Technology". < 1417215075 992181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i860 < 1417215081 772948 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...what is the most obvious thing you've missed? < 1417215082 124751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FSVO "bricked" < 1417215099 847590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: honestly, I've forgotten. but I remember the groans of others when I realised it. < 1417215105 196937 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, surly you could just put in a OS CD yeah? < 1417215113 797342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure if I had one < 1417215115 439546 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically bricked I guess < 1417215116 854722 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1417215130 637825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I only bricked one of them < 1417215132 365777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget < 1417215137 390167 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still < 1417215145 958419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to get linux-or-was-it-BSD to start to boot on one of them, but then it panicked, and that's it. < 1417215153 244792 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1417215156 687632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows would be way cooler an achievement, though. < 1417215163 72999 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I booted a live cd on my ibook once < 1417215168 916103 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah! < 1417215175 627628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they were an old PowerMac and a G3 iMac, respectively < 1417215182 763614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PowerMac was more of a fuss < 1417215191 450509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put a Debian on my Performa I-can't-remember-the-number. < 1417215192 84583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm okay < 1417215193 472114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the G3, I just couldn't convince Open Firmware to boot from the CD for whatever reason. < 1417215200 882739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went in via the MkLinux route. < 1417215211 384512 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, First model ibook (G3) is the one I booted from a live cd < 1417215216 663950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think the one I had was a Performa or a Quadra, maybe. < 1417215222 203399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I tried MkLinux I think. < 1417215223 531697 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't ever go further, due to the 3.2 GB HDD < 1417215229 177546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried lots of things. < 1417215240 938736 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many years from now will x86 lose its dominance in PCmarket? < 1417215243 622759 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.2GB? That's plenty < 1417215247 228470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :MkLinux is that thing where you have a Mach microkernel, and run a Linux kernel as one of its tasks. < 1417215266 63707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kind of thing that causes people to make a "kernel on your kernel" jokes. < 1417215268 255646 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: not very soon, I expect < 1417215294 404392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: more like how many years from now will the PC market dissolve < 1417215298 433172 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, and 32 MB RAM < 1417215301 863251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM is the king of the mobile market < 1417215349 604985 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the mobiles are getting bigger and you stick a keyboard onto the side and you have a laptop thingy < 1417215355 366625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it was just the MkLinux bootloader or something. < 1417215366 767909 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider that to be a laptop < 1417215388 473085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you consider an iPad to be a laptop? ok. < 1417215391 433683 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no way. there'll always be a PC market. < 1417215401 708881 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1417215403 423786 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not always < 1417215409 701188 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you came with C not being turing complete < 1417215411 79612 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I still had the Compaq Armada < 1417215414 457022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: sure, but it might be a mostly-irrelevant one. < 1417215417 306013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it is here to stay for a long time < 1417215418 995585 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a mini laptop with no keyborad < 1417215422 697996 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have an old Thinkpad somewhere around here < 1417215425 692814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already becoming that way for many people. < 1417215430 860867 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has a touchscreen < 1417215435 731584 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, anyway I didn't want to remove MacOS, I wanted to dual boot < 1417215438 836339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :our perspectives on this as nerds is hopelessly skewed and it's hopeless to generalise from that. < 1417215447 272788 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, as in, classic Mac OS 9 < 1417215450 399206 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it might become smaller, but still < 1417215456 476864 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, okay < 1417215470 219981 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_: my phone almost has a keyboard < 1417215471 37697 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, now 3.2 GB is not very much any longer :P < 1417215522 701991 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop machine has 3.2 gb of cache I think... something like that < 1417215603 51072 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope off by an order of magnitude, butonly one < 1417215605 611968 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that, that seems absurd < 1417215660 685169 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_, 3.2 MB seems reasonable, 32 MB seems very large too. But possible I guess. 320 MB I don't believe in < 1417215676 58258 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of beast computer is it < 1417215692 942904 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has 3.2 mb < 1417215695 668064 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it depends on which level of cache < 1417215706 741343 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oren_, so 3 orders of magnitude then? < 1417215717 759154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some core 2s had 32 mb I think < 1417215719 258395 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Depends on your base. :p < 1417215720 441829 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit i am bad at math < 1417215741 397643 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i have computers to do it for me < 1417215741 684088 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really? I know core 2 had large caches, but THAT large? < 1417215788 534950 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8400 @ 2.26GHz < 1417215790 39505 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache size : 3072 KB < 1417215796 277986 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well around 3 MB < 1417215802 415784 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1417215815 168711 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's a thing on Haswell that there's a bit of DRAM that works as L4 cache both for the CPU and the GPU. < 1417215819 531432 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best recent processor from intel is Intel® Core™ i7-5960X Processor Extreme Edition (20M Cache, up to 3.50 GHz) < 1417215826 923830 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :20M cahe < 1417215832 504598 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh < 1417215838 724043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "GT3e [Iris Pro] version with 40 EUs and on-package 128 MB of embedded DRAM (eDRAM), called Crystalwell, is available only in mobile H-SKUs and desktop (BGA-only) R-SKUs. Effectively, this eDRAM is a Level 4 cache; it is shared dynamically between the on-die GPU and CPU, and serving as a victim cache to the CPU's Level 3 cache." < 1417215863 819692 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err okay < 1417215872 874413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, maybe 12 was the most. still. < 1417215881 295762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of debatable if that counts. < 1417215897 70179 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen POWER CPUs though with 512 MB cache iirc < 1417215900 885197 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :L3 cache < 1417215905 969595 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was for HPC < 1417215910 869618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This regular desktop thing reports a cache size of 6 MB. < 1417215947 556094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I mentioned that there's no Linux driver for the Indy's graphics option (XZ graphics)? IRIX would be the low-effort option. (If you can call it that.) < 1417215967 749820 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500 CPU @ 3.30GHz < 1417215969 590496 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache size : 6144 KB < 1417215977 926741 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a Sandy Bridge < 1417216001 706750 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this might be off since it is in a Xen domU: < 1417216005 943674 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v2 @ 2.80GHz < 1417216007 452281 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache size : 25600 KB < 1417216052 919016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The SS5 has a Sun CG3 graphics card in it, I think, that's very supported. And something fancy in the networking department, I forget exactly what. < 1417216074 545602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does NetBSD have a driver for the Indy's graphics? :p < 1417216101 663793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does NetBSD have a driver for my toaster?) < 1417216108 639461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I doubt that. It works with a serial console just fine, but that's perhaps kind of missing the point of a SGI box. < 1417216169 224257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I got somehow someone to send me one of Sun's quad Ethernet dealies. < 1417216195 31280 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "model name: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2695 v2 @ 2.40GHz" "cache size: 30720 KB" < 1417216201 763187 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1417216224 342834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The front-end node of our cluster.) < 1417216246 46772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has "address sizes: 46 bits physical, 48 bits virtual", which is the most physical bits I've seen so far, at least on Intels. < 1417216270 621056 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same on the domU I checked on < 1417216273 266525 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a linode < 1417216294 105450 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, same family, presumably, based on the model numbers. (E5-2xxxx) < 1417216299 455023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/xx/x/ < 1417216308 62868 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1417216350 814443 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual is the core i5 above < 1417216358 210442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 32 TB of RAM sounds pretty doable < 1417216359 867640 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1417216362 891904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you'd be limited by slots. < 1417216372 473094 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :same on my core 2 duo < 1417216374 751795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do servers with hundreds of gigs of RAM just have ten billion RAM slots? < 1417216397 475757 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can get 8 GB modules easily these days, maybe larger < 1417216400 757349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The cluster's got some (2?) nodes with 1 TB of RAM, but that's it. < 1417216411 138853 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get 8 GB laptop modules even < 1417216432 357005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024/8 is still 128, though. < 1417216457 627149 :Oren_!8a33d313@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.51.211.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1417216466 801361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the particular server model goes up to 2TB in the configu-o-tron. < 1417216500 35766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/proliant-servers/product-detail.html?oid=4142916 < 1417216519 311882 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So presumably there are more than 8 GB modules? < 1417216519 494814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Memory, maximum: 2TB" "Memory slots: 64 DIMM slots" < 1417216528 373450 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 16 GB per module then < 1417216537 335272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 32. < 1417216552 892825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the 2 TB option; they might well be using those even if you order it only half-full.) < 1417216584 354466 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1417216596 48975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 GB DIMM sounds somehow familiar. < 1417216961 139379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The front-end node also seems to have a load average of 17.06, with one MATLAB running at 100% CPU, and exactly 16 cryptically named processes running at 25% CPU. I think someone's running their actual jobs accidentally on the front-end again. < 1417216977 127399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We ask you to refrain from running multi-GB, many-core applications of the frontend." < 1417216978 298819 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1417217128 876230 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1417217398 469820 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1417217510 906715 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emcrtsouqhowmlkb JOIN :#esoteric < 1417217596 949029 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emcrtsouqhowmlkb PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat oh ive set it to disconnect < 1417218129 148449 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1417218258 391173 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1417218405 950332 :dts!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1417218509 332887 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1417218589 281121 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, sorry about yesterday, I won't stay long < 1417218614 203539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, the pinging out? < 1417218617 475577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay :p < 1417218631 622489 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1417218681 591304 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1417219038 22903 :Dulnes!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emcrtsouqhowmlkb PRIVMSG #esoteric ::^) < 1417219114 401870 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds