00:06:12 My cost function based on Euclidean distance just went negative. :/ 00:08:05 And not just by a little bit, either -- http://sprunge.us/cehd 00:08:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:11:09 Oh, complex numbers. Well, that's not a surprise. 00:18:16 in what crazy language are variables complex by default? 00:19:00 How is that crazy? 00:19:16 I, for one, prefer the complex number plane 00:20:38 its crazy because it is not conventional 00:24:48 it isn't necessarily a bad thing to be unconventional 00:25:32 Like base 79 00:25:44 See, you get it 00:30:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: you're completely off base). 00:31:19 Octave/MATLAB. 00:32:11 (Did a sqrt on the wrong thing, one that was a bit negative.) 00:33:15 aha... 00:33:28 Just a bit negative 00:33:56 Not much more 01:13:20 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:27:33 -!- GeekDude has joined. 01:43:24 fizzie: what are you costing? 01:45:22 J does the same thing 01:45:35 %: _3 gives 0j1.73205 01:46:47 Oh, J 01:54:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * XorSwap * New user account 02:08:39 [wiki] [[Eve]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41369 * XorSwap * (+484) An event and stack oriented language 02:12:07 [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41370&oldid=41369 * XorSwap * (+88) 02:33:14 [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41371&oldid=41370 * XorSwap * (+1623) 02:37:23 [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41372&oldid=41371 * XorSwap * (+98) 02:48:09 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:56:28 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:58:14 [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41373&oldid=41372 * XorSwap * (+768) 02:58:38 [wiki] [[Eve]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41374&oldid=41373 * XorSwap * (+1) /* = Explanation */ 03:02:27 [wiki] [[User:XorSwap]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41375 * XorSwap * (+222) Created page with "I like to think up esolangs. I'm still working on the whole 'implement' bit. The only one I've written the spec for so far is [[Eve]]. My website can be found at the rather..." 04:07:52 -!- qwertyo has joined. 04:58:00 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:58:07 -!- qwertyo has joined. 05:06:15 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 05:12:02 it is saturday nao! 05:15:53 still friday sir 05:25:36 ^ 05:25:57 it is 00 05:26:11 that is the time where i am 05:26:26 00:25 05:28:06 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:28:40 -!- qwertyo has joined. 05:36:07 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 05:36:08 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Client Quit). 05:36:12 -!- CrazyM4n_ has joined. 05:36:25 -!- CrazyM4n_ has changed nick to CrazyM4n. 05:38:53 So I'm making a generic 2d language IDE 05:39:13 in Ncurses or what? 05:39:29 Yeah 05:39:34 It already exists doesn't it 05:39:58 This is gonna have to be some Emacs vs Vim style buisness 05:40:01 i'm no expert 05:40:20 screw both of those they both suck 05:40:31 Nano for lyfe? 05:40:54 i used to use nano but now i use midnight commander 05:41:10 I'm talking about text editors, not DoTA heroes 05:41:18 lol... 05:41:26 :P 05:41:37 Does midnight commander even have a text editor? 05:41:41 mcedit has some nice features 05:41:57 MCEdit.... as in minecraft? 05:42:18 if you go to the options in mc, it has a "use internal editor" option 05:42:26 ohhh I see 05:42:38 hah 05:43:14 the internal editor has some cool features like a "cursor beyond end of line" option 05:43:35 which is very useful for fungeoids 05:44:14 MSWord can do that 05:44:19 Therefore I will use MSWord 05:44:26 :-P 05:45:14 lol. for me editors just have to get out of my way and let me code. 05:45:29 Sublime text represent! 05:45:51 that is what i use for python 05:46:49 using a different editor for different languages helps me because i want only spaces for python and only tabs for C 05:47:05 Huh 05:47:18 I use tabs for everything except haskell (because I literally can't) 05:47:55 basically tabs confuse me in languages with significant whitespace 05:48:01 Ah 05:48:10 Quick, give me a good symbol to represent a space 05:48:16 That isn't in the funge standards 05:48:31 。 05:48:35 I'm thinking of using a bullet point 05:48:39 ・ 05:50:19 those are ideographic tho. what about a ‎∴ or something 05:50:21 How about ߦ 05:50:27 ߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦ 05:50:32 Holy shit they connect 05:50:35 ߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦ 05:50:45 Unicode characters can do that? 05:50:55 -!- cluid has joined. 05:50:55 yes. 05:50:57 hi 05:51:01 hi 05:51:18 what symbol for space in a fungeoid editor? 05:51:18 Sorry, I'm having a moment of realization here 05:51:18 ߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦߦv 05:53:12 I'll just use ☢ for now, it's not worth it to spend too much time on this 05:54:31 I cannot see that symbol without posting this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv_srA3WY6s 05:56:14 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:56:29 Heh 05:56:34 -!- qwertyo has joined. 05:56:40 a family of languagse based on CHIQRSX9+ 05:56:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 05:57:03 a program in CHIQRSX9+$language is executed as CHIQRSX9+ if its one character, else as $language 05:57:19 hi there 05:57:21 maybe remove X since its covered 05:57:23 hi 05:58:03 Idea! what about a weird language, where you can redefine keywords and literals? 'assume 123=456; print 123;' 05:59:00 this will output 456 05:59:36 and 'assume +=-; print 2+2' 06:00:06 well redefining operators is easy in lisp or forth 06:00:22 > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2 06:00:24 5 06:00:31 SopaXorzTaker: 06:00:34 @google esolang forte 06:00:35 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forte 06:00:36 Title: Forte - Esolang 06:00:40 (like that except even weirder) 06:00:41 :/ 06:01:25 I was thinking of that... 06:01:33 for 2 years 06:01:53 sorry... the space of high-concept languages is very crowded 06:01:55 and now somebody did it! noo! 06:02:00 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes 06:02:06 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Quit: "I'll be back, internet dieing"). 06:02:23 he needs to reboot his internet 06:03:19 :( 06:03:28 everything is alreadly done, argh! 06:03:46 not true. 06:04:09 am I new with stacked bf then? 06:04:18 literally last week 06:04:24 or don't tell me that is alreadly made 06:04:30 MNNBFSL 06:04:37 made my a dude in japan 06:05:03 another idea: The interprter does a bayesian classifier on the source code and then calls the corrct interpreter (so you can write perl, ruby, haskell, lisp... it will just figure itout and run it) 06:05:07 http://esolangs.org/wiki/MNNBFSL 06:05:24 SopaXorzTaker, in scheme you can redefine keywords but not literals 06:06:02 see 06:06:06 cluid that sounds like a great idea 06:06:07 .g. (let ((lambda +)) (lambda (foo) x)) will add 06:06:24 MNNBFSL is really cool 06:07:14 The interpreter runs all installed interpreters in parallel and picks one that works 06:08:49 SopaXorzTaker: $adjective BF exists for all $adjective 06:09:00 ah 06:09:11 including K-on BF 06:09:18 as in the show K-on 06:10:00 so can anyone help me understand K-on fuck 06:10:09 I thought that its just a text subittution for brainfuck 06:10:15 it is. 06:10:23 object oriented bf? maybe 06:10:34 it just has an ungooglable name 06:10:41 https://gist.github.com/wasabili/640572 06:10:51 but I found this, which is a formatter version of the azunyan interpreter 06:10:59 (ac > 1 && av[1][0] == 97)? a537():kofi(); 06:11:02 im not sure what this is 06:11:07 or what a537 does 06:11:21 here is hello world example https://gist.github.com/wasabili/640467 06:11:27 cluid: ac is argc, av is argv 06:11:28 I can ad this to the wiki after we figure it out 06:11:34 it is probably some shift jis hackery 06:11:37 so if there are arguments passed and the first letter of the first argument is 97 which is uh 06:11:40 > chr 97 06:11:42 'a' 06:11:45 https://gist.github.com/wasabili/640461 less obfuscated version 06:11:54 so $ ./a.out astuff calls a537() instead of running the interpreter 06:12:00 I suspect it's just an easter egg 06:12:12 https://gist.github.com/wasabili/562178 this is what made me think that it is a bf substitution originally 06:12:47 that code doesn't even compile though :p 06:12:57 -!- CakeMeat has joined. 06:13:01 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 06:13:11 did you try running the interpreter and writing stuff into it 06:14:08 Hi 06:14:14 % ./a.out 06:14:15 **Welcome to K-on Fxxk!** 06:14:15 warning: this program uses gets(), which is unsafe. 06:14:15 > 06:14:16 Hey 06:14:16 not an expression: ‘’ 06:14:19 nice 06:14:33 ./a.out a does weird things too 06:14:39 like uh 06:14:42 print 0 no matter what 06:14:52 http://esolangs.org/wiki/K-on_Fuck 06:14:54 You writing an IRC bot? 06:15:02 except if it's afoo then it prints 0D 06:15:15 wait no 06:15:16 gets() who would do such a thing 06:15:19 that was just my ^D :p 06:15:41 I should make a bot again. Oh the memories 06:16:39 Oh, I didn't show any of you, I made a generic code-running bot 06:16:51 Already been done before 06:16:54 But this one, this one is *extendable* :O 06:18:25 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:19:09 -!- qwertyo has joined. 06:19:48 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fractran wow 06:19:57 the SE link is dead but https://github.com/graue/esofiles/blob/master/fractran/impl/fractran-in-fractran.txt 06:20:33 My internet isn't working because Skype is eating all the bandwidth 06:20:36 Explain it? 06:20:44 delete skype 06:20:45 Just kidding, it just loaded 06:21:03 pkill -9 skype 06:21:39 It's installing 06:21:42 I got tired of the crappy linux version (which runs on Wine 06:21:43 _ 06:21:44 ) 06:21:47 i have an alias in my bashrc of pulseaudiodieinafire 06:22:23 to pkill -9 pulseaudio 06:22:33 I call that command "fix" 06:22:43 Because it usually solves whatever problem I'm having... 06:22:55 does anyone know about this higher levle fractran language he invented? 06:23:02 at one point I'm pretty sure I fixed a sound problem with "apt-get remove pulseaudio" and it wasn't even installed 06:23:06 One time, my keyboard was disconnecting and generally being weird and doubling keys, 06:23:10 But killing pulseaudio fixed it 06:23:13 who did 06:23:36 I've actually heard of it before 06:24:35 it would be cool to have a compiler from that to fractran, and also a direct implementation 06:26:12 its impressive to program in fractran directly 06:26:21 I like this approach, of making up a language with subroutines 06:27:13 I hate this https://docs.python.org/3/library/curses.html#curses.window.refresh 06:27:27 why 06:27:28 I hate this specific function 06:27:28 please discuss fractran 06:27:29 With every shred of my existence right now 06:27:56 it is like buffering in a graphics library 06:29:31 you call that at the end of your draw step 06:30:22 I know that 06:31:08 Look at the syntax of it 06:31:08 First two arguments are the top left of it, the second two are the top right, the last two are the bottom left 06:31:09 Why 06:31:09 Why world 06:31:30 the C version isn't like that 06:32:06 OH 06:32:11 I read it wrong.... 06:32:14 the C version takes no arguments 06:32:17 I'm really good at reading docs you know 06:32:50 This actually makes sense, the first two args are the coords on the pad 06:33:01 and the last 4 are just the coords of where to render to 06:33:12 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:33:33 -!- qwertyo has joined. 06:43:08 Classic python community.... I ask for how to do something in curses, they tell me to go use their python-only solution and don't answer my original question 06:43:49 what were you trying to do 06:43:59 Get the cursor position in curses 06:45:12 http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/ncurses/man/ look here 06:45:53 It's just getyx() 06:45:54 should be getyx 06:45:57 Yeah 06:46:08 So hyped for this IDE 06:53:10 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:53:36 -!- qwertyo has joined. 07:13:00 -!- qwertyo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:14:30 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:49:01 -!- cluid has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:56:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 07:58:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:13:32 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:15:20 -!- dianne has joined. 08:21:26 hmmm i think a vernier scale could be a cool design for a videogame exp display 08:23:28 which languages provide fraction literals? 08:27:53 ¾ 08:29:29 `quote FinnAir 08:29:44 714) I saw a Finnair plane today In a smoking rubble? Close. Heathrow Airport 08:29:53 I've seen another FinnAir plane! 08:30:39 In another desolate environment? 08:30:57 (Ok, that's a fair description of 90% of airports anyway.) 08:31:34 ruby has fraction (Rational) literals as of 2.1.0 08:31:43 int-e, Hong Kong Airport 08:32:01 Possibly Heathrow too, it's been a long day 08:32:12 CAS languages like pari/gp should generally have them 08:32:16 Taneb: where are you now? 08:32:26 elliott, Hong Kong Airport, waiting for a connection 08:32:39 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_bird%27s_eye_view_of_Hong_Kong_International_Airport.JPG ... yeah 08:33:01 or, i'm not sure if it's a fraction literal, so much as that exact representations are preferred over rounding options 08:34:02 i have a program fragment written on a piece of paper 08:34:05 > 2%4 -- not a literal 08:34:07 1 % 2 08:34:19 and i'm trying to figure out what language it is 08:35:43 i think it is ruby 08:36:16 while(z < 45/22)z++ 08:36:30 That seems like C 08:36:34 with no semicolon. 08:36:46 not ruby 08:37:23 it could be rubbish i found it abandoned on a desk 08:37:52 it would be valid awk inside braces 08:37:58 where 45/22 would be computed as double 08:37:59 is it printed or written by hand? 08:38:14 written by hand in purple pen 08:38:28 so missing a semicolon could just be a mistake 08:38:30 Purple pen... 08:38:33 probably significant 08:38:51 (it could be for printed code, too, but then it would be less likely) 08:38:52 light purple or dark purple? 08:39:06 like gel pen it is sparkly 08:40:10 for hand written things people often write mixture of correct code and short hands for whatever they mean mathematically 08:40:21 s/short hands/shorthand/ 08:40:42 whe problem is it doesn't make sense, why would you increment z while comparing it to a fraction 08:41:11 z could be floating point ? 08:41:11 it could be ++ doesn't mean increment in this case 08:42:06 45 / 22 is a tiny bit below 2 08:42:18 *above 08:42:35 so maybe they are a beginner and want <= 2 08:43:05 Maybe it is concievable for the value to be 1/22 and they want that to behave differently? 08:43:19 ohhh that makes sense 08:43:26 btw i checked that in pari/gp, "type(1/2)" returns "t_FRAC" 08:45:02 but it's still just the result of dividing 1 by 2, so it doesn't really seem to be a literal. (i might not know what i'm talking about) 08:45:17 If I wanted any value slightly above 2 I probably would not write 45/22. 21/10 or 201/100 would be more likely. 08:45:26 mhm... 08:46:04 but maybe I'm supposed to think that ;-) 08:46:08 it is possible that this is an empirically found value 08:46:39 like a value that happens to work for some task 08:48:23 welp maybe next time i'm there i'll scribble down some mysterious code and leave it 08:50:42 as it happens i have a sparkly gold pen 08:55:09 in whole foods (expensive supermarkets with organic food and such), i've noticed the bathroom stalls have inspirational quotes instead of the usual vulgar messages and drawings 08:55:16 if i had a decent phone i would have taken a picture 08:55:36 sorry, i meant inspirational quote grafitti written by customers 08:55:42 important info 08:56:23 things like "be the change you want to see in the world" -- ghandi 08:57:55 dim x as real: x=1; x-=x^2-2/2*x while i*i /= 2; 08:57:59 Taneb why are you traveling so much? 08:58:11 i will write that and leave in the same desk 08:58:15 Going on holiday, CakeMeat 08:58:20 Amaze 08:58:24 Dont die 08:58:34 The first quote must have been in 2009 at the latest... 08:58:58 No, I went to Heathrow a couple of years ago? 08:58:58 Good advice for anyone who goes 'round the world 09:00:05 oh i spelled gandhi wrong 09:00:30 ghandhy 09:00:41 gh and hy 09:00:56 I vaguely know someone called Gandy 09:01:27 he was the leader of the indian rebellion against the british 09:01:55 and then he was all pissed when the muslims and hindus could'nt get along afterwards 09:02:26 I know who Gandhi was 09:02:34 I also vaguely know someone called Gandy 09:02:40 what???? 09:02:41 Friend of a friend or something 09:03:39 i see... i have a friend named Teddy but gandy? 09:04:12 I don't really know the guy that well... 09:04:22 but then again obama is the president and mitt was almost president 09:04:32 so maybe i dunno what a weird name is 09:04:52 All names are weird. Then you get used to them. 09:05:03 In fact, Everything is weird. 09:06:48 Oh the Winslow! 09:07:40 right i mean my name is oren with an e and that is weird, but shachaf tells me that's a normal name in Israel 09:08:11 damn, i spelled graffiti wrong too 09:08:57 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oren 09:13:42 winslow? 09:14:38 I don't think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ören is related. 09:20:00 oren kaenbyou 09:22:20 well yeah it's also a japanese name like oren ishii from kill bill 09:23:36 your name just reminds me of rin. 09:27:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:41:05 oren: http://www.airshipentertainment.com/buckcomic.php?date=20080313 09:42:18 oren: a stuffed animal of the Foglio's kids, appears as a major plot element in Buck Godot (people worship it), and has numerous cameo appearances in their other comic(s), like yesterday: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20141205 09:42:32 s/'s/s'/ 09:46:00 Is there a comprehensive list of webcomics that are popular here? Order of the Stick, Homestuck, Girl Genius... 09:46:38 super mega comics was, once upon a time 09:46:39 FSVO popular 09:47:11 GG may be just oerjan and I. 09:47:29 `pbflist 09:47:32 hmm 09:47:35 I thought that existed 09:47:42 well, for the best that it doesn't or I'd have pinged people 09:47:45 pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion 09:47:45 `` echo 1 09:47:46 1 09:48:09 oops. 09:48:19 HackEgo: taking a nap? 09:48:29 well, there was probably a pbf since the last time anyone ran that. 09:48:41 Nope. 10:02:47 int-e : I also like girl genius. 10:09:34 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 10:09:47 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:09:59 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 10:12:30 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:13:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 10:15:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:15:03 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 10:28:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:54:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:55:58 well well well 10:56:03 if it isn't the big Ø 10:56:30 HELLO 10:58:54 The "big Ø" notation is very useful when talking about asymptotic complexity. 10:59:32 it means "you don't have a chance to understand how big this is" hth 11:00:31 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:00:56 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:01:11 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:04:30 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:05:44 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:05:56 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:15:14 oerjan: So apparently I was wrong after all and Lady Selnikov has merely released the Beast by accident. 11:15:37 Then again, appearances can be deceiving. 11:16:15 i am still not convinced she's not orchestrating this. 11:16:36 Now if this was the Baron finding her, she'd be revived in some vat in no time. 11:16:39 for one thing, if the monk was shot in the foot, how did he _witness_ these things? 11:16:40 But this is Agatha ... 11:17:44 Was he shot in the foot? mmm. 11:18:32 Ah, I suck at reading as usual. 11:18:37 although the alternative seems to be that he's _lying_ which also seems unlikely. unless there's mind control involved. 11:19:10 (I was distracted by the signs in the second panel. "It cannot die but is too stupid to..." 11:19:13 ) 11:19:49 worst case: lady selnikov is the Other and the monk is a revenant. 11:20:02 (possibly newly instated.) 11:20:12 In any case, he clearly did not see her *die*. 11:20:20 indeed. 11:20:32 Smoke and wreckage and the a corpse. Now where's the mirror... 11:20:39 *then 11:21:06 hm that _does_ make more sense. 11:21:58 he would presumably have had time to find her, and may have jumped to conclusions on the rest. 11:22:22 Is she a Smoke knight? If she's half as good as Violetta, all sorts of things could have happened. 11:22:57 int-e: the winslow can surely be distracting yeah :P 11:24:24 now i'm wondering if the train assassins were working for her and just pretending to try to kill her. 11:24:38 you make girl genius sound so exciting 11:24:47 yep hth 11:24:51 -!- CakeMeat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 11:25:08 let me know when the faces aren't horrifying 11:25:44 they're not hth :P 11:33:12 oh hum 11:33:28 * oerjan suddenly remember someone with the initials on that book. 11:33:57 *+s 11:35:20 well the first letter has never been revealed in story, but it's what you'd expect. 11:37:08 wait. http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Van_Rijn ... it's *that* book! 11:37:58 But then Agatha should recognize it immediately. 11:38:08 oh, the one from the circus! 11:39:05 i even remember rereading that strip a few days ago 11:39:36 agatha wondered how the muse had found it since it was in her [cut off] 11:40:37 damn. 9 years. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051003 11:41:18 oh that's not the strip i was remembering 11:43:30 and you were right about Anevka, she's merely a clone of van Rijn's designs. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051104 11:44:38 ah here it is http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060106#.VILrwZUtBjo 11:45:04 (what _is_ with the #.* anchors on that site?) 11:47:47 Odd, I don't see those. 11:48:12 well it may have something to do with how i'm visiting it 11:48:17 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:49:44 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:49:57 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:50:23 i see it even after following the one you linked. only the rwz part varies. 11:50:58 but it seems to change on each click. 11:54:46 strange. must be some sort of malware 11:55:01 (that *is* the easiest explanation ;-) ) 11:57:00 could some "transparent" proxy be adding those extra bits? 11:58:23 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:59:25 well i assume it's on the site. 11:59:35 perhaps some javascript. 12:00:01 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:00:02 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:00:14 i think it started after that recent major redesign. 12:01:54 well I tried a fresh profile, and I still don't see anything like this. 12:02:06 you are using the < and > buttons, right? 12:02:56 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:04:14 oh, there we have something. 12:04:58 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:05:06 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:05:57 mostly < and >, but also the story navigation menu 12:06:15 and it happens even when i go directly there from the address bar 12:06:59 yeah, I see it happening, I just wasn't patient enough... 12:09:18 some script from addthis.com does it. 12:10:58 I feel like I read GG too fast to get up-to-speed, because I can't say I remember all the characters and their names :\ 12:11:11 There's just so many characters 12:23:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:23:45 ah there it's gone. 12:24:54 FireFly: it's hard to keep up. 12:29:07 " Is there a comprehensive list of webcomics that are popular here?" ← `` ls bin/*list 12:29:14 (well, to some degree) 12:29:28 i'm pretty sure gg isn't there 12:30:11 fair 12:30:25 the *lists don't include comics that update semi-predictably. 12:30:42 I keep interpreting "GG" as "Gunnerkrigg ...Gourt". 12:30:51 And they're hard to decipher. It took me months to figure out the meaning of olist. 12:30:51 OGAY 12:31:51 (I would likely have done better if I were actually following OOTS) 12:32:36 now that's crazy talk 12:33:16 oerjan: well, imagine my impression of `olist ;-) 12:33:46 "okay, people notifying each other of random numbers ... well, maybe I'll figure it out some day." 12:34:29 0147 12:35:44 FireFly: GK is a good comic, too, but there's a lot less of plot to discuss. 12:36:27 good, good 12:36:53 Good to know 12:37:04 gunnerkrigg kourt? 12:37:07 I blame fizzie 12:37:22 Just continuing oerjan's "OGAY". 12:37:36 At least that's the excuse I'll stick to now. 12:42:30 http://bellard.org/bpg/ neat 12:44:05 that's a pretty sticky excuse. do you need help getting off? 12:44:49 * oerjan realizes what he just says 12:44:53 *said 12:45:01 WHAT IS HAPPENING TO MY TENSES 12:45:31 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:45:55 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:45:56 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:47:07 imo order of the scow 12:49:00 FireFly: i find a completely unstyled web page with no date on it slightly disturbing. how do i know whether this is the newest thing or from 1995? 12:49:39 ...well i suppose javascript couldn't usefully do this back then. 12:49:42 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:49:44 but still. 12:49:55 I agree about that 12:50:10 The spec linked under "Technical information" at least contains a year 12:50:11 oerjan: check the last-modified header hth 12:50:40 *sigh* is it possible to find that in IE... 12:50:50 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:50:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:50:57 And following the link to the wikipedia article on HEVC informs me it's from 2013 12:51:00 ag tgere 12:51:00 hmm, that was almost too helpful to follow with "hth" 12:51:03 *ah there 12:51:13 shachaf: you've got a point 12:51:22 whoa, your browser shows you the last-modified header? how? 12:51:33 12.06.2014 12:52:06 shachaf: under "properties"? 12:52:33 whoa 12:52:38 (actually "Egenskaper", but i am guessing that's what it's in english) 12:52:40 maybe i should switch to ie 12:53:22 * oerjan is not exactly sure when shachaf started being sarcastic there 12:53:50 . o O ( one of those doesn't fit... http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/comics.png ) 12:54:12 It's a good feature and I think it would be nice if my browser had it. 12:54:17 the no date point applies to papers too, IME. 12:54:25 I don't use Windows so switching to IE would be way too much work to be worth it. 12:54:35 Yes. I like papers with dates on them. 12:54:38 Arguably even more, since they tend to always follow the same style conventions 12:55:05 I guess if it seems they're using something pre-LaTeX for rendering mathematical expressions, that's an indication that this might be a tad too old 12:56:33 shachaf: Firefox seems to show it under 'view page info' 12:57:08 Chromium doesn't. 12:59:03 int-e: is it the "On the cleverness of compilers"? 12:59:10 *CC 12:59:12 oerjan: yes. 12:59:21 yay 12:59:21 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:59:35 the "Untitled Document" is http://faith.rydia.net/episode1/page20.html 13:00:21 whoa, i have a different page with the same title 13:00:51 shocking 13:01:04 whoa, Word 97 was so good 13:01:10 such a good program 13:01:13 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:01:16 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:01:49 much edit 13:02:46 My bookmarks are write-only. 13:04:09 My bookmarking strategy is this: I open tabs with things I want to get to. I never get to them. Eventually I have so many tabs that my browser gets slow, or they don't fit (or my browser crashes and loses them all). I put them all in a bookmark folder and never look at it again. 13:04:19 That sounds like a huge time-saver. 13:04:43 i recall bookmarking in that way back in the early 2000s 13:04:53 (except there were no tabs) 13:05:10 shachaf: you can skip the step where you save the bookmarks 13:05:30 Excel 2000 was the shit. http://youtu.be/UO4DvM9KUyM 13:05:35 int-e: Hence "write-only". 13:05:41 when i quit university i got it all saved to a cd but i doubts it's still readable 13:05:47 (I do. Very rarely that leads to a session of finding something interesting in the browser history.) 13:05:47 * oerjan has never tried. 13:06:07 *doubt 13:06:13 TENSES, I SAID 13:06:18 or persons, technically 13:06:25 oerjan: even if the CD works, many of the links won't :) 13:06:25 int-e: Oh, I also do all browsing in "incognito mode". 13:06:31 shachaf: Ah. 13:06:32 -!- Patashu has joined. 13:06:38 Except for things that I want to save for later. Those become tabs in the regular browser window. 13:06:58 I need to work on my paranoia :P 13:07:06 ion: whiona 13:07:19 -!- shikhout has joined. 13:07:23 There's no paranoia benefit here. My traffic still gets logged. 13:07:36 I just don't like purple links, or something. 13:09:11 * oerjan hates sites that _thwart_ his ability to see whether links are visited. 13:09:20 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:09:28 either by styling, or by having stupid redirection. 13:09:49 i'm looking at you, blogspot 13:10:45 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:10:53 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:10:59 although i guess it's stupid of IE not to log both the pre- and post-redirection url 13:10:59 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:11:08 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:11:12 i dunno what other browsers do, of course 13:12:18 but an ideal browser should (1) log both post- and pre-redirection (2) have some kind of these-urls-are-equivalent database (3) refuse to use the same styling for visited and unvisited links 13:14:06 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:15:19 a:visited { text-decoration: blink } 13:15:24 and i also wish reddit had a view setting that was simply "reverse posting order" 13:15:35 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:15:45 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:16:14 (iirc "new" browsing only shows the very last new posts) 13:16:25 The best web sites make links look identical to paragraph text. 13:16:50 the best web sites for hunting down and killing, i take 13:16:53 oerjan: but then it would start out as "dinnareadit, dinnareadit, ..." instead of "reddit, reddit, reddit..." 13:17:07 int-e: O KAY 13:18:22 oh and for reddit _comments_, i occasionally have wished that the slightly better new order there looked at the newest undeleted post in the subthread rather than its top ancestor 13:19:03 because my entire use case for "new" in reddit comments is to find new comments in old threads 13:20:58 mind you these days i somehow barely manage to keep up with r/haskell, much less the larger subreddits i used to follow. 13:26:27 argh anarchy golf won't load 13:27:13 which leads me to another feature i'd want: if the site doesn't reload, i'd like it to keep showing me the old version of the page 13:27:52 because like, the last thing i do before reloading that page was take note of the last thing i'd seen 13:27:58 *did 13:28:24 well it worked second time 13:30:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:32:53 I never got into slashdot, and I didn't get into reddit. Instead I'm annoyed when people link to reddit instead of the original articles. 13:34:02 * oerjan glares at int-e 13:34:35 but without the reddit link, how will you know why the original article is bullshit! 13:34:49 I'll use my own judgement? 13:35:03 sounds brittle to me 13:35:13 I know that's a dying concept. 13:35:57 (also sometimes the reddit link tells you relevant information without which you cannot make a sensible judgement.) 13:36:32 i guess, sometimes the reddit discussion is more interesting than the original link. i certainly don't always click on the latter. 13:37:12 -!- cluid has joined. 13:38:57 https://xkcd.com/386/ I guess that's the reason why I avoid reddit. 13:39:17 Or one reason, at least. 13:46:01 i have an alias in my bashrc of pulseaudiodieinafire <-- i note it's longer than what it expands to. might still be faster to type i guess 13:48:20 `addquote at one point I'm pretty sure I fixed a sound problem with "apt-get remove pulseaudio" and it wasn't even installed 13:49:11 1224) at one point I'm pretty sure I fixed a sound problem with "apt-get remove pulseaudio" and it wasn't even installed 13:49:29 `echo hi 13:49:32 hi 13:49:38 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:01:30 -!- boily has joined. 14:03:36 bod ettermilygdag 14:07:15 * boily does inarticulate chewbacca cries 14:07:32 (bon matœrjan) 14:08:23 oerjan : pulseaudiodieinafire is easy to type hth 14:08:50 especially when you're angry i assume 14:10:22 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 14:11:44 indeed it is hard to remeber space when youre angry 14:11:59 good morening. 14:12:21 ohayou gozaimasu 14:13:49 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:14:41 o hai yourself 14:14:47 hi 14:15:00 chellouid. 14:15:11 now i'm wondering if that inspired the lolcat thing 14:16:00 boily: what an egregious smipeeling of celluloid tdnh 14:16:03 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:16:30 or possibly cthulhuoid 14:16:59 cluid is difficult to hello. let's check the official version... 14:17:06 `ello cluid 14:17:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ello: not found 14:17:11 ... 14:17:13 what is the problem that pulseaudio is supposed to solve anyway... 14:17:15 wat 14:17:40 it multiplexes audio between several apps 14:17:50 int-e: it's kinda like jack, but not? 14:18:12 and it is supported by ubuntu for whatever reason 14:18:35 oerjan: mmm. http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/cd658f881a6a 14:18:35 int-e: e.g., application-level volume contro 14:18:38 *control 14:18:49 and network audio 14:19:12 ah, network audio is important. not. 14:19:16 boily: stealth sabotage by elliotts, i see 14:19:30 not to you 14:19:51 also EQing 14:20:07 changing output device on the fly 14:20:30 int-e: I WAS LOOKING UP THAT 14:20:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:20:47 anyway I can't remember the last time I heard someone actually having problems with pulseaudio as opposed to just remembering having a bunch of problems with it, to be honest 14:21:14 -!- oerjan has set topic: Beware of int-e's evil twin oerjan | Beware of ricocheting jokes | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 14:21:32 `? ørjan 14:21:37 elliott: Well, I uninstalled the thing, so all my pulseaudio troubles are in the past, for now. 14:21:40 ​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. 14:21:43 did anyone fix the k-on fuck page 14:21:49 cluid: fix how 14:21:59 i explained earlier 14:22:26 elliott: But I do remember what the problem was: about a second of delay between stopping a movie and the audio stopping, in xine, and a matching delay on restarting the movie. 14:22:35 cluid: in that case, i missed it 14:22:47 xine @_@ 14:23:25 I use it for playing DVDs *shrugs8 14:23:46 mplayer masterrace! 14:23:48 nope, not finding your explanation 14:23:51 otherwise it's usually mplayer these days. 14:25:06 -!- S1 has joined. 14:25:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:26:53 -!- mitchs has joined. 14:28:58 -!- mitchs_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:35:42 i have problems with pulseaudio still. mostly to do with too many volume controls. 14:37:35 why do you need an application volume control when the applications already provide one? 14:38:13 they don't, necessarily. 14:38:27 and they shouldn't have to (why should every program implement its own redundant audio functionality?) 14:39:05 And sometimes the application volume control == the pulseaudio one, if it's a pulse-native thing. 14:39:25 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 14:39:37 Though I can't think of an example offhand. 14:42:21 well I use vlc to play everything, and when pulseaudio is installed there are then three volume controls 14:42:25 -!- atslash has joined. 14:44:15 and besides i have a physical volume conrol on my headphones 14:44:50 this sounds like the worst reason to killall pulseaudio 14:45:09 why do nerds love complaining so much 14:45:13 it is a usability problem 14:45:40 there should be only one volume control or failing in that two 14:45:53 not four 14:45:55 You can remove the (useless) VLC volume control with "Tools/Customize interface", and you don't have to ever touch or even see the PA per-application volume control for VLC (if that's all you ever use). 14:46:11 you were just advocating for application-specific volume control, i.e. volume control proliferation 14:46:46 I mean I just don't think this state of affairs actually causes you any hardship but whatever. now I'm "enjoying" complaining about complaining 14:47:48 it is an annoyance... so i pkill -9 pulseaudio to reset its volume 14:48:14 Do you also rip off the power cable to shut down your computer? 14:49:19 i wish i could 14:49:31 on msdos you can 14:50:02 or just hit the power switch 14:50:32 there is no reason why these interfaces have to be so complicated 14:51:02 elliott: Re the cost function, it was too silly to explain, sorry. 14:52:20 anyway it is easier to kill pulseaudio than figure out which volume control is turned down or up. 14:53:29 kill first, ask questions later-- a good policy in life 14:53:33 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:54:23 fizzie: i assume it was a quantum cost 14:54:37 or as they say in italian, quanta costa 14:55:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:55:13 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:55:17 *quanto 14:56:18 I feel like I'm missing a joke here. 14:56:45 at least. 14:57:29 (quanto costa is like one of the obvious tourist italian expressions) 14:57:38 cuanta costa means how much does this cost in spanish 14:58:45 cuánto cuesta says wiktionary 14:59:12 oerjan: btw I hope you're not trying to imply that you're the good twin. you're evil, too :) 14:59:16 -!- nys has joined. 14:59:19 * int-e thinks 14:59:35 I know I cannot read but why do I have to keep demonstrating it... 14:59:41 I DUNNO 15:47:57 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 15:49:45 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:49:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 15:53:36 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 15:54:55 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:55:01 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 15:57:37 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 15:58:09 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 16:00:02 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:00:02 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 16:00:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INTERPUNCT CHICKEN). 16:03:24 Fractran is so cool 16:03:39 did you see the self interpreter that someone wrote? 16:03:43 they made up a whole new notation for it 16:05:02 pretty sure i have once 16:07:18 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 16:07:31 a kind of highr level fractran 16:09:39 -!- oren has quit (Quit: going to school). 16:09:57 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:09:58 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 16:27:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:33:57 im impressed that someone managed to program that 16:34:06 what other fractran programs are there people have written? 16:34:12 I saw the prime sieve but i dont know how even that work 16:43:00 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 16:49:25 -!- cluid has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:30:47 -!- password2 has joined. 17:31:06 -!- oren has joined. 17:31:13 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:36:19 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:38:51 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:39:29 what character for right shift and left shift? 17:39:59 maybe unicode » and « 17:41:52 or maybe just one character, using negative numbers for the other shift 17:46:23 i'd prefer to keep everything ascii 17:46:30 I don't think « and » are very good, semantically. There's always ≪ and ≫ but possibly they aren't very good either. 17:46:34 oren: no, ≪ and ≫ I believe 17:46:40 And they're more obscure as far as characters go. 17:46:53 fizzie: doesn't Knuth use ≪ in volume 4? 17:47:45 For shift, you mean? I wouldn't know, I haven't read any of the Volume 4 stuff. 17:47:48 I kind of like those characters 17:47:51 yes, for shift 17:48:06 `unicode ≪ 17:48:09 But they do already have a mathematical meaning. Still. 17:48:12 U+226A MUCH LESS-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 89 aa UTF-16BE: 226a Decimal: ≪ \ ≪ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored 17:48:20 `unicode ≫ 17:48:22 U+226B MUCH GREATER-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 89 ab UTF-16BE: 226b Decimal: ≫ \ ≫ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored 17:48:24 hmm i think better to use one chracter for both shifts 17:48:36 oh wait 17:48:38 nvm 17:48:43 those are doublewidth, aren't they? 17:48:48 and just not rendering right in my terminal 17:49:34 or at any rate, I'm supposed to see two arrows, right? 17:49:34 how about capital K 17:49:39 I don't think they're in any official sense doublewidth. 17:49:52 ok, yeah, it's just awful font 17:50:00 `unicode « 17:50:02 U+00AB LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK \ UTF-8: c2 ab UTF-16BE: 00ab Decimal: « \ « \ Category: Pi (Punctuation, Initial quote) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored 17:50:45 alternative suggestion: 《 and 》 17:50:53 (these suggestions are even worse. don't use them) 17:51:02 a ⋘ b → a ≪ b. 17:51:11 `unicode ⋘ 17:51:13 U+22D8 VERY MUCH LESS-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 8b 98 UTF-16BE: 22d8 Decimal: ⋘ \ ⋘ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored 17:51:13 hrm 17:51:20 `unicode 《 17:51:23 U+300A LEFT DOUBLE ANGLE BRACKET \ UTF-8: e3 80 8a UTF-16BE: 300a Decimal: 《 \ 《 \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored 17:51:27 interesting that *that* renders as doublewidth on my terminal 17:51:51 I feel like ⋖ and ⋗ would be good bit-shift characters 17:51:51 it is used in chinese for some quotes i think 17:52:04 -!- password2 has joined. 17:52:46 a ⋚ b. 17:53:23 ("LESS-THAN EQUAL TO OR GREATER-THAN") 17:54:11 I think i will just use K for now, and add super special unicode chars in another version (scrip8?) 17:54:29 the 8 stands for utf-8 17:54:41 Also, a = b → a ≸ b. 17:55:05 whereas scrip7 will be limited to 7-bit ascii 17:56:35 `unicode ≸ 17:56:38 U+2278 NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR GREATER-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 89 b8 UTF-16BE: 2278 Decimal: ≸ \ ≸ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ Decomposition: 2276 0338 17:57:07 oren: I'm waiting for scripEBDIC 17:58:01 i have another idea for a language with its own code page but i will wait for chrismas break to make it 17:58:19 it willuse all 256 bytes for printing chars 18:04:48 also-- an esoteric markup language 18:16:53 -!- nys has joined. 18:25:11 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:28:01 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 18:36:17 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:39:10 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:40:24 fizzie: I've never gotten why those characters exist... 18:42:09 -!- atslash has joined. 18:42:17 'those characters' being ⋚ and such 18:42:20 Perhaps just for consistency 18:42:41 Someone gave me a plausible explanation, but I've forgotten it already. 18:42:42 FireFly: "comparable", in a partial ordering? 18:43:15 I was thinking about that, but I think the plausible thing I heard of had something to do with why both ⋚ and ⋛ are needed. 18:44:24 If putting one thing above another is read as "or", I'd expect them to mean the same thing. 18:44:56 Then again, there's both ± and ∓ 18:44:57 There's also things like ≨ which I guess is just < except it's more explicit about the ≠ part. 18:45:38 I've seen ± and ∓ used in some sort of a case where "a ± b ∓ c" means "a + b - c or a - b + c". 18:48:07 I guess you could extend that interpretation to make "a ⋚ b → b ⋛ a" say "a < b → b > a; a = b → b = a; a > b → b < a" on one line, but it doesn't seem very useful in general. 18:48:38 Right. 18:55:16 -!- MDream has joined. 18:55:36 Guess I'll make the dolphin thread after lunch if someone else hasn't. 18:55:42 https://lainchan.org/r/res/5364.html Also, this spam. 18:55:45 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 18:56:01 I was kind fo hoping it'd be a crudly edited mod of Toontown. 18:56:45 [wiki] [[Ttml]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41376 * Orenwatson * (+2222) created page and chart of controls. 18:58:07 hay luk guise i made an awful thing! 19:00:05 that's fantastic 19:01:31 you can use this instead of boring old TeX 19:01:50 and make your paper look likeit was made in 1948 19:01:55 haha 19:02:02 is there an interpreter for it already? 19:02:11 /compiler 19:02:11 no but i am working on it 19:02:13 cool 19:02:22 it will make jpega 19:02:27 *jpegs 19:02:37 one for each page 19:03:23 you can make subscripts/superscripts by moving down a half-line like in the old days 19:03:35 do you have an example 1948 paper? 19:04:03 no but my father has some from 1957 in the soviet union 19:04:12 cool 19:04:21 they have aleph written in by hand with a pen 19:04:37 that would be cool to see 19:05:06 anyway so i thought, what if i were to hand in an assignment wirtten like that? 19:05:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:05:32 they would be freaked, out 19:06:02 I would find ⋚ with a big slash through it useful. 19:06:12 How do you indicate that things aren't comparable? 19:06:38 not with a giant scribble 19:07:26 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:08:15 it appeard from wiki that you use // 19:09:37 but maybe that's because they got tired of scribbling 19:10:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:11:03 ⋚ 19:12:44 `unicode ⋚̸ 19:12:57 U+22DA LESS-THAN EQUAL TO OR GREATER-THAN \ UTF-8: e2 8b 9a UTF-16BE: 22da Decimal: ⋚ \ ⋚ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ \ U+0338 COMBINING LONG SOLIDUS OVERLAY \ UTF-8: cc b8 UTF-16BE: 0338 Decimal: ̸ \ ̸ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Com 19:13:42 ⋚̷ 19:14:10 You've broken XChat by posting that 19:14:22 I can now make multiple text selections somehow 19:14:34 lolololol 19:15:03 so yeah there is the scribble character 19:17:07 Anyway i will eventually post an implementation of TTML 19:17:52 Remember that fungeiod IDE I was making 19:17:59 yeah? 19:18:01 You can now scroll (wow) 19:18:12 awsome. scrolling is important 19:18:17 Mhm 19:18:45 Well, you can go up and down 19:19:12 next you should make the cursor able to move in any direction. e.g. so that you can write 'a' and then the cursor will be below it 19:19:27 or behind it or above it 19:19:42 What I'm doing 19:19:51 is if you write, < for example 19:20:31 The cursor will go to the left 19:20:49 ^ will make it go up 19:20:57 v will make it go down 19:21:27 For now I'm coding it with respect to my own fungeoid 19:21:32 But I will add profiles 19:22:18 I could possibly make this my first legit program 19:22:31 I just have to set up github 19:22:35 er, git 19:22:41 awsome, legit. 19:22:47 Which I don't know how to do 19:22:58 i usually use svn can't help you there 19:23:05 git is confusing as hell 19:23:14 I usually use the GUI application on windows :/ 19:23:44 I know how to use gists.... I guess I'll just do that, hah 19:24:20 https://gist.github.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310 19:24:36 It's not much yet, but it's getting there 19:26:42 hmm. if it helps i can post my ncurses spreadsheet program 19:27:00 it is very bad still becuase i stopped working on it 19:27:16 No, I've wanted to learn ncurses for a long time 19:27:24 This is a good learning experience 19:27:37 Well, I would look at it if you posted it though 19:28:36 │ | 1310 │ mitchs 19:28:42 sorry, my bad 19:28:48 lol 19:30:11 http://pastebin.com/cN3e35J9 this is (iirc) the only file in it that uses ncurses 19:30:44 it shows how to get control and alt characters 19:31:12 That'll be useful 19:31:21 basically control characters are c-'@' and alt is char 27 followed by the character 19:31:24 So, uh, I broke something on a giant scale 19:31:40 hmm? 19:32:00 I don't even know, try running the script 19:32:03 brb 19:33:23 duuude no tabs in python... bad! 19:34:13 change your tabs into spaces 19:35:33 actually the tabs aren't even being pasted when i copy it 19:35:55 Huh 19:36:09 I'll change them to spaces, but I personally have no opinion on the matter 19:36:20 https://gist.githubusercontent.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310/raw/5f0759d39f34749afcd77ffdfe6d986d11ae80bf/ide.py 19:36:31 Copy from there 19:37:03 What have I done http://i.imgur.com/U9q1zA6.png 19:38:34 the cursor doesn't move when i type but other than that seems ok 19:38:57 except when i move cursor off scrren it does not scroll 19:39:39 it instead throws an exception 19:39:41 Wait why did I say all that in the wrong channel. 19:39:46 Really? For me it does a TON of other stuff 19:40:59 I get it now... 19:41:06 For whatever reason 19:41:41 The cursor goes in the correct direction, but when I type, it goes to a spot as if all of my cursor movements were rotated 19:44:58 it doesn't do taht for me 19:45:07 If I swap the coordinates in the addch call, it works, but if it doesn't do that for you... 19:45:11 What OS are you on? 19:45:17 linux 19:45:20 xubuntu 19:45:20 terminal? 19:45:29 xfce4-terminal 19:46:15 i dunno, all the coords in ncurses are y,x. 19:46:26 I'm on lubuntu and it happens to me under both terminator and lxterm 19:46:44 Yeah, but the coords come straight out of getyx 19:47:06 that is the coords are y,x in getyx too 19:47:12 Yes 19:48:34 Bug report time? 19:49:13 Xubuntu++ 19:49:21 plus plus? 19:49:31 I like Xubuntu 19:49:46 I would probably be using it right now, if I weren't using Windows 19:50:10 "++" from my experience is slang for "is awesome" 19:50:17 kinda based on things like C++ 19:50:18 C++ = awesome C? 19:50:31 C++ = pathetic, bloated C. 19:50:49 CrazyM4n: not in particular 19:50:49 Notepad++ = pathetic, bloated notepad? 19:50:57 Notepad++ is pretty awesome 19:51:03 but C++ should not be used in the same purpose as C 19:51:08 no way 19:52:00 all c++ programmers should just write rust 19:53:00 note that earlier versions of C++ were decent. it only got bad recently 19:53:11 :D 19:53:58 Can I make the cursor not move when I call addstr? 19:54:13 yes. use noecho 19:54:21 Already did 19:54:26 CrazyM4n: do you know termbox? 19:54:26 That's what wrapper() does 19:54:46 No, but now I do 19:54:54 okay 19:55:41 uh, use mvprint? 19:55:46 one thing i find interesting about it is the easyness of porting 19:55:46 or mvaddstr 19:56:00 It's... weird seeing a commercial for lego minecraft 19:56:02 yeah, mvaddstr should work 19:56:07 A game I saw in development 19:56:24 and get chars with mvgetch 19:56:35 (Well, I saw it before The End was added, and the commercial referenced The End) 19:57:06 minecraft people should grow some guts and go play dwarf fortress 19:57:19 +1 dorfortress 19:57:26 Well, I found the problem 19:57:37 addch uses x, y coordinates instead of y, x 19:57:44 :D 19:58:10 wtf??? why python has to mess that up? 19:58:18 it isn't like that in C 19:58:24 i really love terminal applications, but ncurses is a pain in the ass to write imo 19:58:33 not in C it isnt 19:58:42 I just got rid of the coord arguments 19:58:47 It's listed as y, x in the docs 19:58:51 But it doesn't work like that 19:59:06 So I just am letting it put the char at the cursor (which is what I want, anyway) 19:59:33 CrazyM4n: what are you going to write? 19:59:44 Writing a fungeoid IDE 19:59:49 ah 20:00:20 honestly i love python but some of its libraries are messed up 20:00:33 Just kidding, it doesn't work now 20:00:41 Now, it literally just doesn't do anything 20:02:02 myname: there are alternatives to ncurses though 20:02:12 termbox is the one i know 20:02:16 what else is there? 20:02:21 libtickit is the one I know of 20:03:00 i have done stuff by outputting ansi sequences 20:03:09 that is a viable alternative 20:03:22 That is essentially what libtickit abstracts 20:03:40 and all these libraries 20:03:50 okay, termbox cannot handle mouse 20:03:53 Well, most of them seem to not pare ansi sequences sanely 20:03:56 parse* 20:04:01 it's not that much of a drawback imho 20:04:31 most terminals you mean? 20:04:43 e.g. vim doesn't--it barfs if you feed it valid escape sequences that it just happens to not be familiar with (yet follows the grammar of escape sequences defined by ECMA-35 20:04:45 ) 20:05:21 oren: no, I mostly mean the application side of things, though I guess both are problematic 20:05:24 why would an editor need to parse them? 20:06:04 i am talking about stuff like printf("\33[45m"); 20:06:09 Because special keystrokes such as ctrl+enter, delete, F1 and stuff are encoded an escape sequecnes? 20:06:10 tickit doesn't look any smaller than ncurses 20:06:10 sequences* 20:06:13 Is Rust a good language for implementing esolangs? 20:06:24 s/is/will it be/ 20:06:42 Sgeo: i don't see why it wouldn't 20:06:58 you will have pattern matching 20:07:02 what else do you ened 20:07:18 oh i see. yeah i have also done that. you can parse them yourself with some ad-hoc code 20:07:28 whichever ones you need 20:08:09 Well, I found the python ncurses source 20:08:10 Wish me luck 20:08:39 I'd prefer if vim said something like "unsupported escape sequence" or just silently ignored it, rather than treating it as "Esc" "[" "35" "u" or whatever, causing all sorts of annoyingness 20:08:43 good luck1 20:09:22 hmm my editor appears to ignore anything weird 20:09:28 mcedit 20:11:26 maybe TTML should support the upper control characters (C1)? 20:12:00 Of the python module is just interfacing with _curses, which is a .so file 20:12:31 so the bugs are probably easily fixable 20:12:51 addch() is in that .so file 20:13:08 e.g. someone borked the argument order in the interface 20:13:46 the curses module doesn't even have the interface 20:14:08 huh? 20:14:14 The whole interface is a couple of initialized variables and an import _curses 20:14:38 uh... ok i have no idea how that works 20:15:01 i use C or pyhton i've never used both in one program 20:15:42 where did the .so come from? 20:16:23 It's most likely a compiled C thingy 20:16:37 It's probably just curses 20:16:56 As in, the C library 20:17:34 It can't be, it's only 93 kb 20:18:23 Welp, I guess it's safe to say that it's probably time to reinstall python unless someone wants to give me their _curses.cpython-34m-x86_64-linux-gnu.so file 20:19:24 http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk/Modules/_cursesmodule.c btw 20:22:39 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:24:57 -!- CakeMeat has joined. 20:27:41 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:27:52 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 20:27:52 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:28:08 Huh, apparently the C code in _cursesmodule.c is all correct 20:28:12 Where could the error be then? 20:28:46 [wiki] [[Ttml]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41377&oldid=41376 * Orenwatson * (+140) 20:36:14 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:38:22 Still doing curses CrazyM4n 20:38:44 Yes 20:38:56 I found out that my python install was probably broken 20:39:23 Reinstall 20:39:33 Also ive had the same problem before 20:39:58 One of the files was corrupted so idk if thats fixed or not 20:40:16 Must go charge 20:42:59 -!- b_jonas has joined. 20:54:30 Okay, I'm so confused 20:54:45 All I need is someone to run https://gist.githubusercontent.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310/raw/cb4de1cb60ddd68493a8f2354c5e1a33ccd6528c/ide.py and tell me what it does for them 20:54:49 But nobody will D: 20:57:42 i'll do it hold on 1 sec 20:58:06 Thanks 20:58:11 yeah, I can do it, oo. once I install python on this computer... 20:58:16 s/oo/too/ 20:58:28 You have to push an arrow key to get output 20:59:48 it goes to the space i want, then when i write a char it goes back to the position 4,3. 21:00:02 then when i move again it goes back where i was 21:00:23 Where does it put the F? 21:00:26 *f 21:01:00 line 4, column 2 21:01:09 (1 based index) 21:01:21 Just like that, I give up 21:01:41 write in C 21:01:56 I want to use python 21:02:01 But I might be forced to use C 21:02:17 write i c, write in c, write in c, oh write in c, don't even mention cobol, write in c 21:02:35 oh come on, C is classic. C is an ever-faithful servant 21:02:51 who does exactly as she's told 21:02:52 I just need to test my ncurses 21:02:54 myname: YES. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4YRPdRXKFs 21:04:35 -!- S1 has joined. 21:04:47 whereas C++ is a fat man in meido-fuku. 21:04:58 it just isn't the same 21:05:22 OK, the C implementation works 21:05:36 so... I guess python curses is absolutely broken 21:10:43 http://bugs.python.org/issue21088 praise the lords it's fixed 21:11:06 oren: what is the output of python -v 21:11:52 2.7.6 21:12:32 That makes sense, this bug only affects 3.4.0 21:12:38 Which is what I'm running 21:12:43 ah, python 21:12:50 python 3 sucks 21:12:59 that language where you can choose between buggy and deprecated 21:13:07 python 2 forever 21:13:29 nah 21:13:33 i and b tags are deprecated too, so what? 21:13:48 heh 21:14:02 I just chose python because it's easier to install on windows than ruby 21:14:15 i like ruby as a language way more than python 21:14:25 but the libraries around it are horrible 21:14:29 Me too, shame it's so much slower 21:14:39 ruby is cool but can't handle unicode worth a damn and its slow 21:14:42 The libraries are rather good imho, they just don't work on windows 21:15:47 they just don't work on 1.9+ 21:15:57 at least not after the next update 21:16:05 C90 will be good to us forever 21:16:08 because hey, fuck api stability 21:17:12 yeah. like i'mma change scrip7 so all the literals are different. fuck stability, safety and shit. 21:17:31 that is ok for an esolang but srsly Ruby? 21:17:56 Ruby is just the crappy sequel to Perl 21:18:01 But I love both of those languages 21:18:04 So it's k 21:18:05 nah 21:18:15 ruby is 110% syntax sugar 21:18:15 Perl 6 is the crappy sequel to Perl 21:18:17 i like that part 21:18:27 We don't talk about Perl 6 21:18:42 because it literally will never take off 21:18:48 it is DOA 21:19:05 We don't need new perl imho 21:19:20 We already have old perl and it's good enough :P 21:19:48 exactly. my dad has cgi scripts that he wrote in 1995 and still work 21:19:58 that's awesome 21:20:05 why do we need any of this new crap? 21:20:08 fun fact, perl will turn 27 in 12 days 21:20:25 (so will i) 21:20:48 that's the only thing i like about it 21:20:55 whoa. you have the same birthday as Perl? 21:21:00 You were born on the day Perl was born? 21:21:04 i do 21:21:08 that's epic 21:21:13 brofist 21:21:18 Are you by any chance a dollar sign and a bunch of random garbage characters? 21:21:18 :D 21:21:25 :P 21:21:29 heavy karma 21:21:42 only in #esoteric :D 21:22:10 I have to learn perl. I love it for what it does and how well it works and it's codegolfability, but I don't actually know it 21:22:27 you could also learn golfscript 21:22:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 21:22:50 But golfscript is written in ruby *shudder* 21:22:50 useing a language designed for golfing is cheating imo 21:22:59 ^ 21:23:28 oren: what about J? 21:23:40 perl was designed to put sed awk and tcl in one language 21:23:56 CrazyM4n: if you're still looking for someone to run that script, I may be able to help now. Though it looks like oren was able to help you 21:24:09 J was designed to be APL in ascii 21:24:15 Yeah, I found the bug also 21:24:22 glad to hear it 21:24:36 oren: it is perfect for golfing, though 21:24:59 paul2520: http://bugs.python.org/issue21088 21:25:37 CrazyM4n: ah. I see. 21:26:53 yeah but it wasn't designed explicitly for brevity it just so happens that metafunctions make things short 21:29:16 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:21 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 21:31:30 HALLELUJAH 21:31:32 IT WORKS 21:31:41 howd you manage it 21:31:55 had to install pyenv and install python 3.4.2 21:32:08 it took all day to fix something python broke 21:32:11 screw that 21:38:51 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:41:00 -!- HackEgo has joined. 21:52:36 Okay, scrolling actually works now 21:54:01 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:58:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:58:42 howd you manage it 22:00:34 Eh, lots of testing 22:05:29 i gave up trying to implement ttml in C for now, and i'm writing a translator into html. 22:05:55 using lots of absolutely positioned divs. 22:07:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:12:51 I'm recording a gif of it 22:15:33 It's glitchy still 22:22:11 http://i.imgur.com/TnfNcXj.gifv 22:22:41 The only glitch I found was writing off screen doesn't actually add the characters, just moves your cursor 22:27:06 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:31:23 -!- atslash has joined. 22:31:45 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 22:33:05 Fixed it 22:34:26 Was it someone in here who linked to http://retroforth.org/docs/The_Ngaro_Virtual_Machine.html ? 22:34:52 I don't remember who I interacted with to find it >_< 22:35:01 There was a JS implementation 22:35:16 And, minesweeper 22:35:39 Not me, but that's cool 22:37:14 Might have been a different network 22:51:30 CrazyM4n: what is that gif 22:51:51 [wiki] [[Ttml]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41378&oldid=41377 * Orenwatson * (-54) too hard to implement. will think of something else. 22:51:51 CakeMeat: my IDE so far 22:52:02 Oh 22:52:09 I've done more since that gif 22:52:22 Saving/loading files is almost done 22:52:34 Why does it look like random garbage > 22:52:41 Because I was hitting random keys :P 22:52:45 Oh 22:52:57 Funny 22:53:28 And Did you fix your python 3 troubles? 22:53:38 Yeah, I had to install python 3.4.2 but it works well now 22:53:57 Great 22:54:24 Why didnt the python support channel help you? 22:54:30 Doing other things 22:54:34 I presume 22:54:43 Helpful 22:54:52 Someone told me to switch to a different framework 22:54:55 lol 22:55:03 lol 22:55:18 Why not use C ? 22:55:36 Because python is easier 22:55:45 And I haven't used C in so long, I'd have to relearn it 22:55:49 Someday, but not today 22:56:02 Oh, well python is easy 22:56:12 Yes 22:56:31 Doesn't make it less powerful, and with PyPy if I bother to install it I can get speed comparable to C 22:57:14 Do you use a library 22:57:19 For? 22:57:23 Stuff 22:57:34 Well, I am using ncurses to draw the screen 22:57:44 Which comes with python on linux 22:57:51 Welp 22:57:53 (It won't work on windows, I just realized) 22:57:54 :c 22:58:10 https://gist.github.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310 22:58:20 There are replacements for curses on windows 22:58:30 I'd just have to go through and change a little bit of stuff 22:59:04 Oh my 22:59:14 Hm? 22:59:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:59:31 What version of windows do you use 23:00:00 Lubuntu 14.04 :P 23:01:12 Ive had bugs with lubuntu. did they fix any? 23:01:27 I haven't run into too many troubles 23:01:31 What bugs have you had? 23:04:13 use less windows 23:04:18 Installed half way and terminated Process 23:04:50 Like if something wont install properly i wont really use it. 23:05:03 Huh 23:05:37 Well, I installed ubuntu 23:05:48 Decided I hated unity, installed xubuntu-desktop 23:05:58 Decided I hated xubuntu-desktop, installed lubuntu-desktop 23:06:04 Haven't changed since 23:06:14 straight to tiling wms :p 23:06:34 I tried to use i3 for a while 23:06:37 Keyword: tried 23:06:39 Ive never liked ubuntu like products/ubuntu itself 23:07:46 i am using herbstluft wm 23:08:23 I don't like ubuntu much but I'm most used to it 23:08:30 I wanted to switch to arch but I haven't bothered 23:08:36 go for it 23:11:05 Arch linux with Antergos alt. But i should probably switch 23:14:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:14:52 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 23:17:35 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 23:20:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:22:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:27:41 finished: http://pastebin.com/0kifNgpd 23:28:07 well kind of. i'll make the greek and cyrillic escapes later 23:29:23 oren: what's that about? 23:29:39 [wiki] [[Ttml]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41379&oldid=41378 * Orenwatson * (+64) add link to partial implementation 23:30:10 it is an implementation of my teletype markup language 23:30:32 you can use actual ascii escapes or ^ codes 23:30:55 it will translate to an html page 23:31:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:32:25 I see 23:32:53 it uses one div for every character i will fix that later 23:33:03 Amaze 23:33:25 [-|] there, a maze 23:33:44 :I 23:34:10 You took it to far oren /o/ 23:34:10 | 23:34:10 /< 23:34:13 the idea is that the result will look like a math paper from the 1950's 23:34:21 Once again myndzi 23:35:01 A math paper from the 1950's how do you know what that looks like 23:35:26 my father has a bunch from his friends who escaped from the USSR 23:36:40 also my father's thesis looks similar; he wrote it on a selectric. 23:36:52 but that was later obviously 23:37:42 anyway it mimics the effect of a paper teletype 23:38:09 with some additions such as limited color 23:38:24 you can download papers online y'know :p 23:39:03 You wouldn't download a car 23:39:46 ...but what about downloading models for 3D printing a car? 23:40:02 Next time you can make one to translate into ANSI instead of HTML, too 23:40:17 anyway i have seen the original of my father's thesis "pseudocompact metacompact spaces are compact" and that inspired this 23:41:07 i do not understand the paper at all obviously 23:42:37 zzo38: yeah i will figure that out. most terminal programs don't let you go down half a line so i don't think everyhting can be made to work 23:43:40 going down half a line was common method to make sub/superscripts 23:44:04 Pretty cool 23:44:09 that's a great thesis title 23:44:51 it is hilarious because i asked him what metacompact is and he couldn't remember. 23:44:59 i know what compact is 23:45:01 These days it'd have a pithy saying in front, separated by dash. 23:45:33 ya it would 23:45:49 Wikipedia's [[Metacompact space]] cites "Pseudocompact metacompact spaces are compact". 23:46:25 Bananas in Space(s) (That Are Compact): Pseudocompact metacompact spaces are compact 23:46:27 One wonders if whoever added the citation read more than the title, since it's all there. 23:46:59 i know... you don't even really need an abstract 23:47:27 I have played Dungeons&Dragons game now I am writing recording and then you can read it please 23:48:02 I found the six "orden" books. 23:52:30 "In 1950, Arens and Dugundji [1] defined metacompact spaces and showed (A) countably compact metacompact spaces are compact. It was known by then that paracompact spaces are normal and that normal pseudocompact spaces are countably compact. Since paracompact spaces are metacompact, (A) also showed (B) pseudocompact paracompact spaces are compact." 23:52:35 I didn't understand any of it, but reading it made the word "compact" itself sound meaningless too. 23:53:09 it makes it sound like compact is not even an english word... 23:53:16 like some sort of mantra 23:53:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation 23:58:11 but yeah it turns out you can stick any latin/greek prefix onto compact and make a new class of topological space 23:59:29 -!- oren has quit (Quit: dinnertime).