←2014-12-06 2014-12-07 2014-12-08→ ↑2014 ↑all
00:00:44 <CrazyM4n> bisymcompact space
00:01:20 <CrazyM4n> of course http://i.imgur.com/9xt3PxP.png
00:01:32 <Phantom_Hoover> did you know that originally 'metaphysics' basically just meant 'physics: volume two'
00:05:36 <zzo38> Well, now I can know!
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00:19:01 <zzo38> `danddreclist 60
00:19:14 <HackEgo> danddreclist 60: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
00:19:25 <zzo38> Do you like this?
00:19:53 <shachaf> I haven't been reading these.
00:22:09 <zzo38> Why is that?
00:22:21 <zzo38> I thought you put your name because you want to read it?
00:25:11 <CakeMeat> zzo38: hows your pokemon games
00:25:28 <zzo38> CakeMeat: Do you mean a pokemon card game?
00:25:35 <CakeMeat> Yeh
00:25:57 <CakeMeat> Are people using it yet?
00:26:03 <pikhq> Good god that was a bad idea.
00:26:12 <zzo38> Using what exactly?
00:26:19 <pikhq> In the future I should use a thermometer when I deep fry things.
00:27:17 <CakeMeat> lol? what were you deep frying
00:27:30 <pikhq> Catfish.
00:27:48 <pikhq> The problem isn't that I burnt the food, the problem is that the oil got to its smoke point while I was breading the catfish.
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00:28:12 <pikhq> And now the apartment is filled with smoke.
00:28:13 <CrazyM4n> So my fungeoid IDE can open files now
00:28:14 <CrazyM4n> woot
00:28:16 <CrazyM4n> https://gist.github.com/CrazyM4n/d02380667be743be1310
00:28:25 <oren> awsom d00d
00:29:57 <CakeMeat> Did you roll the catfish is flour?
00:30:07 <pikhq> Equal parts flour and cornmeal.
00:30:17 <pikhq> After a bit of seasoning.
00:30:23 <pikhq> Also, used buttermilk.
00:30:27 <CakeMeat> Season after btw
00:30:38 <CakeMeat> Skim?
00:30:50 <pikhq> Hmm?
00:31:07 <zzo38> CakeMeat: What exactly are you asking about? I didn't write a program or anything for people to use; just some new cards, and some puzzles, and I do not know whether or not anyone is using those in any way.
00:31:38 <oren> use a different oil
00:31:51 <pikhq> oren: Why? Peanut oil has a very high smoke point.
00:31:59 <pikhq> The problem was too high temperature and inattention.
00:32:05 <CakeMeat> Thats what i meant the puzzles
00:32:11 <oren> what the hell how did you get the oil to 400 degrees?
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00:32:15 <CakeMeat> Pay attention to your food!
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00:32:33 <pikhq> Using a gas stove?
00:32:40 <CakeMeat> Whyyy
00:32:42 <zzo38> CakeMeat: I don't know if anyone is *using* them...
00:33:18 <pikhq> Cause there's no point in having a deep fryer if you're not dumb like I just was?
00:33:37 <oren> pikhq: i have a gas stove and i fry things in bacon fat and it never caught fire
00:33:45 <pikhq> It didn't catch fire.
00:33:50 <oren> or smoke
00:34:00 <CakeMeat> Thats not what i put thougj
00:34:26 <CakeMeat> Why cook inside though?
00:34:48 <oren> dude don't leave the gas on so high
00:34:56 <pikhq> See, that was my problem.
00:35:06 <zzo38> But I also made u several new cards for the game of Pokemon Card. Some don't have any names yet but you can make such a suggestion; you can also add your own cards if you have some to add.
00:35:39 <pikhq> But hey, guess my stove can get pretty high in heat, so there is at least that.
00:36:03 <oren> yeah you've proven you can probably make candy on that stove
00:36:13 <quintopia> wat
00:36:32 <pikhq> Yep.
00:37:00 <oren> quintopia: you've never made candy?
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00:38:30 <quintopia> screw u elliott :(
00:38:50 <quintopia> gettin my hopes up and dashing them upon the pavement
00:39:01 <oren> huh?
00:39:30 <quintopia> he triggered pbflist even though there's no new pbf
00:39:41 * pikhq has no intention of repeating the above mistake
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00:41:06 <quintopia> zzo38: what's your favorite famicom game/software
00:41:31 <zzo38> quintopia: I don't know.
00:41:55 <oren> bubble b^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
00:43:11 <oren> Thunder Emperor : The Legend of Pikachu
00:43:48 <oren> it is a real game, made by a fly-by-night operation from china
00:45:05 <oren> Lei Dian Huang : Bi Ka Qiu Chuan Shuo
00:45:08 <CakeMeat> So enjoy your catfish pikhq
00:45:19 <pikhq> I did.
00:45:29 <pikhq> I'm not sure it was worth the smoke though.
00:45:32 <oren> you ate it already?
00:46:06 <pikhq> Yes. I was a bit busy eating before I came here. :P
00:46:12 <CakeMeat> Wouldnt it be hot?
00:46:26 <CakeMeat> I bet your mouth hurts
00:46:30 <pikhq> Nah.
00:46:40 <pikhq> You think I fried it in still-smoking oil?
00:46:42 <pikhq> :)
00:46:56 <CakeMeat> Cooking with pikhq
00:47:20 <pikhq> An actual quote.
00:47:21 <pikhq> :P
00:47:32 <CakeMeat> Give it to hack
00:49:01 <oren> so i need ideas as to what the characters FS and EOT should do
00:49:17 <oren> that is ^\ and ^D
00:53:26 <zzo38> I want to make up some card that can cause damage according to cards in opponent's trash.
00:53:46 <zzo38> Also another card could be damage according to the cards in your own trash.
00:54:30 <oren> is that the formal term in pokemon cards? "hah i put your pikachu in the trash"
00:55:36 <zzo38> Yes, although when a card is discarded (which puts it into the trash which is also called discard) due to having too much damage equal or exceeding their hit points, then the card is knocked out.
00:56:47 <zzo38> I mean, then it is called knocked out.
00:56:52 <oren> ah
01:02:10 <zzo38> Do you know about Pokemon Card much?
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01:10:25 <CakeMeat> What are your moods like atm guys
01:10:44 <oren> super happy
01:11:10 <CakeMeat> Is this an accurate mood
01:11:37 <oren> yup. my TTML translator is working very well and i am writing the TTML manual in TTML.
01:12:34 <Sgeo> TTML?
01:13:18 <oren> http://ctrlv.in/470419 there is a wiki article which describes it
01:13:39 <oren> it is Teletype Markup Language
01:15:07 <oren> an esoteric markup language
01:18:05 <CakeMeat> Ttml
01:18:20 <CakeMeat> Sounds like XTML
01:18:56 <oren> but luckily it isn't tag based
01:19:08 <CakeMeat> Amaze
01:19:45 <oren> instead you do ^Abold^B ^Eitalic^B ^Funderline^B
01:20:09 <oren> where ^B simply returns text to normal
01:20:34 <FireFly> zzo38: I think 'discard pile' is the official name
01:21:23 <FireFly> oren: ...couldn't you at least use the same control characters as IRC does?
01:21:36 <oren> like what?
01:21:42 <FireFly> ^Bbold^O ^Iitalic^O ^Uunderline^O
01:21:47 <FireFly> hi oren
01:22:18 <FireFly> (though, ^I is also tab, of course, which might cause issues for you)
01:22:22 <oren> but ^I is tab and ^B is start of text
01:22:46 <oren> in TTML ^I is used to move one half-char right
01:23:08 <FireFly> Can you use ^H to overstrike characters?
01:23:10 <oren> so you can center the bottom of a fraction
01:23:15 <oren> yes you can
01:23:20 <FireFly> Good.
01:23:41 <oren> and vertical tab goes one half-char down
01:23:53 <oren> so you can make subscripts
01:24:17 <oren> i am writing a more in-depth manual with examples
01:24:29 <oren> in TTML itself
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01:31:35 <CrazyM4n> http://i.imgur.com/lwB2E4S.png
01:31:37 <CrazyM4n> :D
01:33:45 <CrazyM4n> It's almost to a state where it is usable
01:34:13 <CrazyM4n> And it's glitches aren't too life-destroying
01:34:16 <CrazyM4n> its
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02:11:10 <oren> http://ctrlv.in/470448
02:33:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttml]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41380&oldid=41379 * Orenwatson * (+17)
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02:56:15 <FreeFull> My implementation of http://retroforth.org/docs/The_Ngaro_Virtual_Machine.html now manages to display the retro forth's prompt
02:56:27 <FreeFull> And then proceeds to crash after taking keyboard input
02:57:01 <zzo38> Oops now you have to fix it please
02:57:07 <zzo38> At least it partially can work
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03:05:53 <zzo38> Why does the program need to know the endianness of the host system?
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04:12:54 <oren> yeahlo.
04:13:56 <oren> so i finally figured out the css sorcery necessary to make a better conversion from ttml to html
04:14:45 <oren> that is, one that doesn't use a separate div for every character in the file
04:14:55 <CakeMeat> Yay
04:17:10 <oren> so i've now updated the translator. still doesn't support greek and cyrillic but i'll get to that maybe tomorrow
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04:19:01 <CakeMeat> Who is dts
04:19:50 <ais523> oren: div, not span? seriously?
04:20:15 <CakeMeat> ./div
04:20:26 <ais523> by the way, the LCRNG problem I was talking about a while ago
04:20:38 <ais523> I fear it may be NP-complete; the obvious generalization of it is, at least
04:20:42 <CakeMeat> Div for what oren?
04:20:45 <ais523> so I'm seeing if I can redefine the problem
04:21:48 <oren> ais523 teh new version uses span. but each span is still position absolute.
04:22:12 <ais523> oren: this is close to the least semantic markup possible
04:22:56 <oren> originally in order to apply the right stuff to each char i made a div for each one. now it uses a span every time the formatting changes
04:23:17 <CakeMeat> Out of context, Span tags are annoying
04:23:37 <oren> each span has a whole bunch of classes attached to it
04:23:49 <oren> which put in the formatting
04:24:02 <CakeMeat> spin; div
04:24:27 <CakeMeat> is probably the worst thing i could have put in my terminal
04:25:21 <CakeMeat> It forcably flipped everything upside down and now i have to start over
04:25:31 <oren> huh?
04:26:15 <CakeMeat> Nothing i wanted to see what happened if i spun div tags over some stuff
04:26:26 <CakeMeat> Nothing good apparently
04:26:34 <oren> ais523 what do you mean semantic markup?
04:27:05 <ais523> oren: markup which lets special-purpose web browsers automatically reformat it
04:27:09 <ais523> e.g. for mobile, or for screen readers
04:27:17 <ais523> or for previews of search results on search engines
04:27:40 <ais523> CakeMeat: terminals don't work like that
04:27:53 <oren> i'd prefer that those thingies read the original TTML.
04:28:32 <oren> anyway this is designed for typesetting those old thingies,,, wahtymcallem, books
04:28:55 <oren> but in a teletype-like style
04:29:55 <oren> it is an esoteric markup language
04:31:34 <CakeMeat> Not terminal i used the wrong word sorry
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04:32:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttml]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41381&oldid=41380 * Orenwatson * (+2612) added exapmle
04:33:30 <oren> here is an eaxamlpe
04:33:39 <oren> *example
04:34:23 * oren notes to press the right buttons IN THE RIGHT ORDER
04:40:21 <oren> CakeMeat did you mean the firefox command line or something like that?
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04:43:57 <CakeMeat> Yuh
04:44:17 * CakeMeat goes back to the podcast i was listening to
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04:50:53 <oren> C H O + 3O -> 2CO + 3H O^M^K^\ 2 6 2 2 2^M
04:51:16 <oren> damn
04:51:22 <oren> wrong terminal
04:55:10 <oren> why does damn have an n in it
05:00:32 <CakeMeat> So you dont mix it with dam
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05:02:43 <oren> it is now sunday
05:07:35 <CakeMeat> Indeed
05:07:48 <CakeMeat> 12:06 pm for me
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05:15:38 <oren> http://snag.gy/l4WzZ.jpg
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05:19:23 <CakeMeat> Font?
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05:20:57 <oren> i dunno what font it's just whatever monospace font firefox has
05:21:46 <oren> i am testing all possible combos of directives to make sure none of them glitch up
05:21:50 <zzo38> I think the font Firefox will use depends on what is installed on the system which depends on the operating system you are using as well as what fonts you have installed
05:22:06 <oren> i couldn
05:22:28 <CakeMeat> Use palemoon
05:22:37 <CakeMeat> Or water fox
05:22:42 <CakeMeat> Idk its better than firefox
05:22:42 <oren> n't remember lorem ipsum so i wrote the most memorable latin sentence from my latinclass
05:23:08 <CakeMeat> Writes an entire paper in wingdings
05:23:47 <oren> ancilla grumionem delectat -- the slave girl delights grumio
05:26:31 <ais523> lorem ipsum is basically latin but with the frequencies of letters, digraphs, etc. changed slightly so that they match English
05:26:35 <ais523> possibly word lengths too
05:26:40 <ais523> the result is very hard to understand as Latin as a result
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05:48:12 <oren> http://snag.gy/KjwPO.jpg
05:48:26 <oren> testing math
05:58:53 <oren> http://snag.gy/Oatlf.jpg
05:59:06 <oren> dark colors
06:03:14 <elliott> CakeMeat: "optimised" firefox builds are snake oil and usually slower than the official binaries
06:04:26 <elliott> they usually also come with a lot of dubious patches by developers of questionable competence
06:05:24 <elliott> (same applies to chrome/ium)
06:13:46 <oren> when in doubt, pkill -9 plugin-container
06:15:44 <elliott> you sure like kill -9
06:16:12 <oren> kill processes first, ask questions not at all
06:18:17 <ais523> "<CakeMeat> It forcably flipped everything upside down and now i have to start over" ← I don't believe this actually happened
06:18:29 <ais523> unless your computer runs entirely on your own thought process
06:18:44 <ais523> like, your computer experience appears to be how computers would act in a dream, or the like
06:19:25 <oren> and when your keyboard acts up, pkill -9 ibus-daemon
06:19:41 <ais523> that said, I do "sudo killall pulseaudio" when logging on
06:19:56 <ais523> but that's because audio doesn't work until I do, and the standard kill (not -9) seems to be very consistent in fixing it
06:20:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttml]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41382&oldid=41381 * BCompton * (-1) /* Example */ Typo
06:21:00 <oren> oh... that was my bad
06:21:09 <ais523> ;
06:22:46 <oren> i don't even really know what the other signals do, othert than that -9 is the one the application can't ignore
06:23:37 <oren> hold on man kill
06:23:40 <ais523> there are two that can't be ignored: 9 and 19
06:24:56 <oren> ah i see.
06:27:56 <CakeMeat> ais523: ofc it didnt actually boom flip it upside down//real time... Why would you think that [ it re listed everything and alot of things were missing, it took about 20 minutes for all of it to load back ] :I
06:28:15 <ais523> :?
06:28:27 <CakeMeat> Like, Screen white pages and then it re lists the output
06:28:55 <CakeMeat> Not WhoooOOooOoo throwing numbers around as if it was water through the air
06:30:05 <CakeMeat> Idk what you thought i meant
06:30:33 * CakeMeat pats your face
06:30:36 <CakeMeat> Silly
06:31:01 <ais523> I normally interpret "flipped everything upside down" as flipping everything upside down
06:31:14 <CakeMeat> Its a saying as in
06:31:20 <CakeMeat> Everything went to shit
06:32:08 <CakeMeat> Also should be interpreted as ( What if your entire room reversed its gravitational pull.)
06:33:19 <CakeMeat> Õ-Õ
06:36:44 <oren> on any site with jquery
06:36:46 <oren> jQuery('div').css('transform','rotate(180deg)')
06:36:52 <oren> into console
06:37:15 <oren> it will flip everything
06:37:31 <ais523> only every div
06:38:01 <oren> jQuery('*').css('transform','rotate(180deg)')
06:38:07 <oren> there
06:38:17 <elliott> CakeMeat: coherent as ever
06:39:28 <oren> jQuery('*').css('transform','rotate(40deg)')
06:39:32 <oren> even better
06:40:26 <oren> it will mess up the entire page into insany
06:42:07 <oren> actually it does that whenever the number of degrees is not a right angle
06:44:04 <oren> and if i put it with say 0.5degrees into a greasemonkey it will be awsome
06:44:31 <oren> everything on the page will be slightly crooked
06:50:45 <oren> http://snag.gy/rOgVL.jpg
06:50:58 <CakeMeat> elliott :I nice to see you too
06:51:36 <oren> so now alljquery sites are crooked
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08:14:30 <oren> holy shit i think i'm the only person in this whole building
08:14:54 <oren> except the caretakers perhaps
08:15:28 <elliott> what building
08:15:46 <oren> the entire comp sci building at university of toronto
08:16:00 <oren> (yes i am at school at 3 am)
08:17:12 <oren> the entire building is quiet as a graveyard
08:17:48 <oren> usually there's at least a few other people here studying
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08:21:32 <oren> jarcane how come you rejoin the channel every 3 hours?
08:22:36 <ais523> oren: "ping timeout", so it's due to becoming disconnected from the server
08:22:46 <ais523> normally that happens due to a bad connection and isn't intentional
08:24:23 <oren> but he joined under j_arcane_ and then timed out under j_arcane, then named j_arcane_ to j_arcane
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08:25:43 <ais523> oren: when a connection times out, it times out at a different time at the two ends
08:25:46 <oren> so somehow he knew that as j_arcane he was going to timeout, and he established another connection preemptively
08:25:51 <ais523> it clearly timed out at J_Arcane's end first
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08:26:09 <oren> see it happened again
08:26:37 <oren> his computer is psychic
08:27:30 <ais523> well, the computer knows it hasn't had any connection for what, 180 seconds?
08:27:35 <ais523> reasonable to guess it's timing out based no that
08:27:45 <ais523> also, the computer does figure things out first
08:28:13 <ais523> because Freenode is the pinging end of the connection, J_Arcane is the ponging end
08:28:25 <ais523> so J_Arcane's server can see "I haven't had a ping for X amount of time, Freenode normally sends them faster than that"
08:28:44 <ais523> whereas Freenode is still waiting for the ping reply, and waits (by the look of things) 4 minutes for it
08:28:48 <oren> oh i see
08:29:22 <oren> so j_arcane's computer gives up before freenode does
08:30:12 <ais523> right, and it also learns that something has gone wrong before freenode does
08:30:24 <ais523> that said, from time to time I've had such lag that I can say something
08:30:27 <ais523> disconnect, reconnect
08:30:31 <ais523> then see myself saying that thing
08:30:40 <ais523> because it finally got out of the lag
08:31:17 <oren> wow. i'm at university in an empty comp sci building so my connection is great right now
08:32:13 <oren> so i guess the lag isn't something i've experiencd yet
08:33:10 <oren> but perhaps when i go up north for christmas i'll see it
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08:34:37 <oren> my ping to freenode.net is 2 ms
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08:36:24 <oren> hey are you even awake J_arcane?
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08:51:21 <zzo38> When thinking about the level20.tex game one thing I imagine that the more major temples of Gxxyuxihuvxi are going to be more confusing (whether in service, geometry, or otherwise) than the minor ones; the more major they are, the more confusing it would be.
08:52:08 <zzo38> Such god of confusing monsters it would be; minor temples are being more mundane...
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09:05:00 <int-e> shachaf: https://github.com/mokus0/lambdabot/pull/95 ... I wonder which discussion about this I missed.
09:06:10 <shachaf> int-e: Might've been in #haskell-blah
09:06:19 <shachaf> I complain all the time, though.
09:06:23 <shachaf> lambdabot is way too verbose.
09:06:31 <shachaf> Or rather certain people abuse it way too much.
09:08:20 <int-e> I can reduce the channel output to 3 lines (at some point I changed this from 80 characters total to 5 lines of 80 characters each, feeling generous)
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09:10:07 <shachaf> Is there a reason to allow more than one line in channels?
09:13:23 <int-e> > id
09:13:25 <lambdabot> No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0)
09:13:25 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘M165613034931687406129741.show_M1656130349316874061...
09:13:25 <lambdabot> The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous
09:13:25 <lambdabot> Note: there are several potential instances:
09:13:25 <lambdabot> instance Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable Data.Dynamic.Dynamic
09:14:45 <shachaf> You could fit a lot of that message on one long line.
09:16:19 <int-e> Well. If people would a) try to make their code correct, and b) actually try to read the error message before resubmitting broken code, then the extra lines would help. The M165613034931687406129741 module name is stupid but that's mueval/hint territory.
09:17:36 <int-e> @check \xs ys -> [xs] == ys
09:17:38 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test):
09:17:38 <lambdabot> () []
09:17:55 <int-e> this also goes through that lim80 function
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09:18:23 <shachaf> djinn is a big offender
09:18:38 <shachaf> I guess people don't use it that much, though.
09:18:51 <shachaf> It would be nice if people used /msg much more.
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09:19:22 <int-e> @djinn \a b c d e f g -> g c d e c d a b
09:19:23 <lambdabot> Cannot parse command
09:19:36 <int-e> @djinn f a b c d e f g = g c d e c d a b
09:19:37 <lambdabot> Cannot parse command
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09:19:39 <int-e> err
09:19:43 <int-e> what am I doing
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09:19:51 <shachaf> reverse djinn
09:20:35 <int-e> @djinn (a -> b -> a) -> (a -> a) -> ((a -> a) -> b) -> a
09:20:36 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
09:21:27 <int-e> @djinn (a -> r -> r) -> (a -> r) -> (b -> r -> r)
09:21:27 <lambdabot> f _ _ _ a = a
09:21:32 <int-e> ...
09:21:56 <int-e> ah, I need to get it to produce cases?
09:22:59 <shachaf> Yes, pattern-matching is what takes vertical space.
09:23:32 <int-e> @djinn Either (a -> b) (c -> d) -> Either a c -> Either b d
09:23:32 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
09:23:56 <int-e> @djinn Either (a -> b) (c -> d) -> a -> c -> Either b d
09:23:57 <lambdabot> f a b c =
09:23:57 <lambdabot> case a of
09:23:57 <lambdabot> Left d -> Left (d b)
09:23:57 <lambdabot> Right e -> Right (e c)
09:24:49 <int-e> @djinn Either (Either a b) (Either c d) -> Either (Either a c) (Either b d)
09:24:49 <lambdabot> f a =
09:24:49 <lambdabot> case a of
09:24:49 <lambdabot> Left b -> case b of
09:24:49 <lambdabot> Left c -> Left (Left c)
09:24:49 <lambdabot> Right d -> Right (Left d)
09:24:51 <lambdabot> Right e -> case e of
09:24:53 <lambdabot> Left f -> Left (Right f)
09:24:55 <lambdabot> Right g -> Right (Right g)
09:24:59 <int-e> beautiful.
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09:26:14 <int-e> (clearly that's way more than 5 lines; the plugin doesn't seem to attempt to limit its output at all.)
09:26:57 <int-e> something I was blissfully unaware of...
09:27:10 <shachaf> I think there are a few that output their own way.
09:27:16 <shachaf> Maybe @src too?
09:29:22 <int-e> @pl \a b c d e f g -> b a c g e d f
09:29:23 <lambdabot> (((((flip .) .) . flip . (flip .) . flip) .) .) . flip id
09:29:35 <int-e> @pl \a b c d e f g -> b e a e c e g e d e f
09:29:38 <lambdabot> ((((flip .) .) .) .) . flip flip id . ((flip . ((flip . (liftM2 flip .) . flip . (flip .)) .)) .) . flip flip id . ((flip . (liftM2 flip .)) .) . flip flip id . ((flip . (ap .) . flip) .) . flip flip id . (ap .) . flip flip
09:30:08 <int-e> I suspect this is the bigger offender in practice.
09:30:38 <int-e> (bigger than @djinn, because it doesn't require thinking about types)
09:31:38 <int-e> for @src, it's a matter of its database...
09:31:41 <int-e> @src sequence
09:31:41 <lambdabot> sequence [] = return []
09:31:41 <lambdabot> sequence (x:xs) = do v <- x; vs <- sequence xs; return (v:vs)
09:31:42 <lambdabot> --OR
09:31:42 <lambdabot> sequence xs = foldr (liftM2 (:)) (return []) xs
09:31:57 <int-e> @src compare
09:31:57 <lambdabot> compare x y | x == y = EQ
09:31:58 <lambdabot> | x <= y = LT
09:31:58 <lambdabot> | otherwise = GT
09:32:33 <int-e> @src (!!)
09:32:34 <lambdabot> xs !! n | n < 0 = undefined
09:32:34 <lambdabot> [] !! _ = undefined
09:32:34 <lambdabot> (x:_) !! 0 = x
09:32:34 <lambdabot> (_:xs) !! n = xs !! (n-1)
09:32:54 <int-e> (ouch)
09:33:21 <int-e> @src withMVar
09:33:22 <lambdabot> Source not found.
09:33:24 <int-e> @src withMVar_
09:33:25 <lambdabot> Source not found. Are you typing with your feet?
09:33:33 <int-e> @src modifyMVar_
09:33:34 <lambdabot> modifyMVar_ m io = block $ do
09:33:34 <lambdabot> a <- takeMVar m
09:33:34 <lambdabot> a' <- Exception.catch (unblock (io a)) (\e -> do putMVar m a; throw e)
09:33:34 <lambdabot> putMVar m a'
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09:35:03 <int-e> aaah, it has full typeclasses in there.
09:35:31 <int-e> (@src Arrow will produce 7 lines)
09:39:05 <myname> what does sequence do? it looks like [M a] -> M [a]
09:39:27 <int-e> myname: exactly.
09:40:00 <myname> okay
09:40:26 <int-e> > sequence ["1","23","456"] -- of course, demonstrating this in the list monad usually causes more confusion than enlightenment
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09:40:28 <lambdabot> ["124","125","126","134","135","136"]
09:41:37 <myname> wtf
09:41:51 <myname> wait
09:42:07 <myname> it does make sense
09:42:07 <int-e> (in the list monad, the type is [[a]] -> [[a]], and the effect is to compute the cartesian product of the input lists. which makes sense if you think of [a] as a list of choices between several values of type a.)
09:44:34 <myname> so i should be able to do [[a]] >>= something
09:47:58 <b_jonas> @type let { x = >>; y = x []; } in x
09:48:00 <lambdabot> parse error on input ‘>>’
09:48:09 <b_jonas> @type let { x = (>>); y = x []; } in x
09:48:10 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
09:48:23 <b_jonas> um, no, I want it monomorphism restricted
09:50:20 <shachaf> :t (>>) `asAppliedTo` []
09:50:22 <lambdabot> [a] -> [b] -> [b]
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09:55:20 <b_jonas> ah, thanks
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09:59:35 <CakeMeat> ... Why am i getting a date in the freenode server logs when it logs me in saying December 31 1969
09:59:46 <CakeMeat> Has it been that long
10:00:02 <ais523> CakeMeat: that's time 0, adjusted for a US timezone
10:00:07 <ais523> so it's probably a bug
10:00:18 <b_jonas> CakeMeat: a date from what?
10:00:39 <CakeMeat> When i log it freenode does a bunch of checks like
10:01:00 <b_jonas> CakeMeat: do you mean a "server was created" time, or a "current time is" time, or a "channel was created" time, or something else?
10:01:35 <CakeMeat> Current time is 12:00 PM December 31 1969
10:02:30 <int-e> that is kind of cool
10:02:48 <CakeMeat> Its at the top of the page that checks stuff like ( looking up your host name... Checking indent )
10:02:54 <CakeMeat> Go check
10:03:52 <CakeMeat> Guys im officially in the past communicating through my microwave prototype
10:04:24 <CakeMeat> Seems to only be freenode though
10:07:13 <CakeMeat> Ill just repeat in #freenode for halp
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10:26:40 <b_jonas> CakeMeat: I can't reproduce that. When I connect to freenode, I don't get a 391 (current time) reply, and if I send TIME explicitly, I get “:barjavel.freenode.net 391 nc_jonas barjavel.freenode.net :Sunday December 7 2014 -- 10:25:04 +00:00” which seems about right
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10:38:23 <oren> CakeMeat "microwave prototype" omg that is a steins:gate reference now i get it
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11:14:01 <cluid> hi
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11:21:28 <cluid> hi
11:21:34 <oerjan> hi
11:21:53 <cluid> what's cooking
11:22:05 <shachaf> whoa, that hi was just for oerjan
11:22:07 <shachaf> v. clever
11:22:24 <oerjan> fiendish
11:22:48 <myname> sounds liie i should start readig steins:gate
11:22:52 <oerjan> why do you talk so much while i'm not here it takes me ages to check the logs tdnh
11:22:59 <myname> *moves it in to read*
11:23:33 <myname> oerjan: don't check them
11:23:37 <cluid> why do you read the logs
11:24:01 <cluid> why not enslave/encourage the regulars to make a #esoteric digest, which has only the useful information of that day collected
11:24:02 <oerjan> to see if (1) i've been mentioned (2) anything interesting has been discussed
11:24:35 <myname> 1 should be told to you by your irc client
11:24:47 <oerjan> cluid: btw programming fractran is not that hard if you know how to program a minsky machine, it's like "just choose primes for your registers and a few control flags, then translate"
11:24:52 <shachaf> irc clients don't work that way hth
11:25:01 <cluid> alright I better check out the minsky machine then
11:25:05 <cluid> its not a model im familiar with
11:25:13 <myname> shachaf: yes they do
11:25:17 <oerjan> cluid: because inevitably elliott would make that digest and it would be always empty hth
11:25:30 <cluid> hehe
11:25:37 <elliott> I was just about to say it'd usually be empty
11:25:56 <elliott> I sort of read the logs in that I usually check scrollback unless it's really long :/
11:26:21 <elliott> it's never worthwhile though
11:26:40 <cluid> Minsky machine has only two opcodes?
11:26:44 <cluid> { INC ( r, z ), JZDEC ( r, ztrue, zfalse) }
11:26:55 <oerjan> cluid: in one formulation yes
11:28:02 <oerjan> oh you also need the state. i guess that needs just one more prime.
11:30:15 <oerjan> <myname> 1 should be told to you by your irc client <-- i don't idle hth
11:30:27 <myname> oerjan: huh?
11:30:43 <myname> where do you have logs from, then?
11:32:01 <elliott> points at topic
11:32:25 <myname> ah
11:32:36 <myname> start idling more
11:33:35 <oerjan> myname: but it's more convenient to read long backscroll via the codu logs
11:33:44 <cluid> i feel like there shuld be implementations of various computational models
11:33:52 <cluid> like minsky machine, mu-recursion functions, etc...
11:34:38 <oerjan> cluid: i'm sure there are a lot floating around.
11:35:05 <oerjan> i haven't searched for any big collections though
11:35:09 <cluid> well I had an idea to make a github page maybe (not sure if they allowed javascript?) which has implementations of various languages collected up
11:35:20 <cluid> and it should have some code examples etc.
11:35:46 <cluid> it would be nice and useful
11:36:17 <myname> not sure about the useful part
11:36:51 <oerjan> i recall there have been several multi-esolang implementations through the years i've been here
11:37:09 <elliott> esco!!
11:37:12 <elliott> cpressey has his yoob.js thing
11:37:15 <elliott> @google yoob.js
11:37:16 <lambdabot> http://catseye.tc/node/yoob.js_API
11:37:16 <lambdabot> Title: yoob.js API | Cat's Eye Technologies
11:37:26 <elliott> as well as his yoob thing. but that's a freaking java applet
11:38:16 <cluid> myname, obviously i only mean its useful for people who actually want to program or test things in various esolangs/minimal computational models
11:41:25 <cluid> ok noone like my idea
11:43:09 <oerjan> hey i don't hate it, i'm just being "been there, it'll fizzle out like all the rest" cynical hth
11:43:28 <cluid> that doesn't help
11:43:46 <myname> you meant: tdnh hth
11:44:25 <shachaf> i,i That Doesn't Work
11:46:23 <oerjan> OKAY
11:47:07 <shachaf> Discworld was such a good computer game
11:47:51 <oerjan> i hear the made a book based on it
11:47:53 <oerjan> *they
11:48:11 * oerjan needs a new keyboard that doesn't drop letters twh hth
11:48:27 <oerjan> ...what happened now
11:48:37 <oerjan> test
11:48:45 * oerjan test hth
11:49:09 <oerjan> elliott: wow i've never noticed before that the script doesn't handle /me
11:49:34 <elliott> I wrote it without testing, what do you expect :p
11:49:47 <elliott> cluid: I was suggesting you could use yoob.js as a base for some things maybe
11:49:56 <cluid> thanks but idont think i would use it
11:49:57 <elliott> since cpressey's yoob / yoob.js are intended as web-accessible collections of tons of esolangs
11:50:17 <cluid> i had a look at it
11:50:38 <myname> wha script are you talking about
11:51:03 <oerjan> i think we are inching into http://xkcd.com/927/ territory
11:51:21 <oerjan> myname: the script that sensors hth etc. at the end of my lines hth
11:51:32 <elliott> not just the end
11:51:41 <myname> okay
11:51:41 <oerjan> mostly the end
11:51:53 <oerjan> it strips punctuation
11:52:06 <shachaf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBfsJ3Z0ei8#t=9m39s hth
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12:02:20 <oerjan> @karma also
12:02:20 <lambdabot> also has a karma of -1
12:02:24 <oerjan> also++
12:06:20 <shachaf> I was there when that happened and resisted the temptation to do that.
12:11:34 <oren> i am finished my breakfast. my number theory course for some reason had an exam question that was a fractran program
12:12:36 <myname> nice
12:12:42 <myname> what was it
12:12:51 <oerjan> shachaf: i was surprised that you resisted hth
12:13:52 <oren> i can't remeber but it ended up with 7^4*5^3*3^3
12:14:12 <oren> it was last year
12:14:49 <oren> this year all my courses are computer but none involve esoteric languages
12:15:03 <myname> :(
12:15:37 <oren> maybe i can sneak one into my game design course next semester
12:18:07 <oren> actually i probably can. you always end up building an inner platform for level scripts
12:18:21 <cluid> wow
12:18:27 <cluid> that's a cool number theory course!
12:18:29 <myname> there should be courses on how to design an esolang
12:19:15 <oren> there is a programming languages course, it covered scheme, prolog, and various aspects of grammar and semantics
12:20:15 <oren> but then this university has a big cs department (one of the largest in Canada). other universities might not have as many courses
12:21:29 <oren> but seriously it seems like every game makes up its own language for mods and scripts and user-generated content
12:22:31 <myname> it's called lua
12:23:27 <oren> for some games maybe. other games use messed up xml, some games use ini file like thingies...
12:24:52 <elliott> oerjan: was it intended as a fractran program?
12:25:13 <oerjan> wat
12:25:33 * oerjan suspects tab miscompletion
12:25:38 <oren> you mean me?
12:26:20 <oren> the question didn't say 'fractran' but it was an iterative process equivalent to a fractran program
12:26:23 <elliott> oren yeah
12:27:45 <oren> the course is a math course so they porbably did not want to alienate the non-cs people by calling it a program
12:29:02 <oren> the question was stated as "if x | n multiply by m/n" for a bunch of different fractions
12:29:27 <oren> whoops i think i reversed that notation
12:32:46 <oren> yeah it is n | x for n divides x
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13:29:41 <oerjan> <MDude> Wait why did I say all that in the wrong channel. <-- aww i was so looking forward to the dolphin thread
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13:48:21 <oerjan> `? myname
13:48:32 <oerjan> argh
13:48:40 <myname> what
13:48:48 <oerjan> no HackEgo
13:49:18 <oerjan> i was checking what information we have distilled about you hth
13:49:30 * oerjan shouts for fizzie
13:49:44 <SopaXorzTaker> does ObjectFuck or somewhat like exist
13:50:08 <oerjan> everythingfuck exists, that's well established
13:51:58 <oerjan> elliott: maybe we should just feature Category:Brainfuck derivatives and get it over with
13:52:04 <oerjan> all at once
13:52:23 <elliott> lets just feature special:random
13:52:59 <oerjan> what's the difference
13:54:08 <myname> not that much obviously
13:56:29 <boily> oerjan: hellørjan. from the Wisdom, I have “myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I?” about myname.
13:56:50 <oerjan> thoilyx
13:57:18 <cluid> feature MMBFSL please
13:57:36 <oerjan> TOO NEW I SAID
13:57:40 <cluid> fractran
13:57:50 <oerjan> hm plausible
14:03:06 <myname> why not collatz functions?
14:06:59 <oerjan> hm the wiki isn't down
14:07:36 <oerjan> fizzie: HackEgo is somehow online but not in the channel
14:07:56 <oerjan> fizzie on the other hand is totally absent
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14:46:12 <J_Phone> So provided I can figure out the macro for an alternate let, I think I can add object function support to my weird Lisp BASIC thing when I get home.
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14:48:36 <J_Phone> Closures are magical things.
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14:50:17 <SopaXorzTaker> can anyone help me with a bf interpreter
14:50:23 <SopaXorzTaker> who do I process loops
14:51:03 <SopaXorzTaker> who do I
14:51:07 <SopaXorzTaker> HOW*
14:51:07 <oerjan> there are basically two main ways
14:51:18 <SopaXorzTaker> I know, stack and counter
14:51:25 <SopaXorzTaker> I want to use the stack way
14:51:29 <oerjan> um no
14:51:42 <oerjan> those are both the same way afaiac
14:51:53 <oerjan> the other way is actually preparsing
14:52:30 <oerjan> which is much more efficient for jumping forward
14:52:41 <SopaXorzTaker> I wanna use stacks
14:52:54 <SopaXorzTaker> what to do when I reach the start of loop?
14:53:00 <MDude> What would you like to put on the stack?
14:53:16 <oerjan> then you check whether the cell is 0, and if so, you search to the end of the loop.
14:53:38 <oerjan> otherwise, you can push on the stack and enter the loop
14:53:58 <oerjan> (preparsing makes the search to the end part actually efficient)
14:54:40 <Jafet> Implement it by compiling to scala to run as JVM bytecode on J3 via LLVM on top of a Xen system
14:54:49 <Jafet> Oh, you mean the stack datastructure
14:55:12 <oerjan> you need either a counter or some special mark on the stack for the forward search.
14:55:19 <MDude> Oh, loop stuff.
14:55:55 <MDude> I'm guessing the preparsing way is just to remember where each brace's mathc is so you can just jump.
14:56:23 <oerjan> MDude: that's one way. or you could use an actual data structure, if you're interpreting in something like haskell.
14:57:18 <oerjan> basically there are heaps of ways to do it
15:00:42 <MDude> Guess I'll link the dolphin language thread if you're interested in that: https://www.lainchan.org/r/res/5366.html
15:01:22 <MDude> Also, maybe it'll get a dolphin based programming language or something.
15:01:43 <MDude> Cymatic representations of code
15:03:37 <oerjan> MDude: i'm was being a tiny bit ironic, although i _would_ be interested if there were any actual _news_ about dolphin language.
15:03:42 <oerjan> *-'m
15:04:34 <MDude> Well there are some articles I linked that are recent.
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15:05:04 <MDude> http://phys.org/news/2014-11-bottlenose-dolphins-specific.html Or at least this one, of dolphins getting recorded without being captive.
15:06:53 <MDude> Rest on language is from at least a year ago, although there's this one I found of river dolphins http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1203-sanders-ucsc-indus-river-dolphin.html
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15:16:52 <SopaXorzTaker> фтв иец
15:16:55 <SopaXorzTaker> and btw
15:17:13 <SopaXorzTaker> does ***fuck exist, where program and data are in the same maeory?
15:17:20 <SopaXorzTaker> *memory
15:17:38 <SopaXorzTaker> *this gives ability to write self-modifying code
15:17:48 <myname> yes
15:18:19 <Jafet> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Aura
15:20:25 <ais523> also http://esolangs.org/wiki/Braintwist sort-of counts
15:22:00 <MDude> Hmmm.
15:22:27 <MDude> Braintwist seems to have the last bit a needed for Brainfuck-without-Brainfuck.
15:22:42 <MDude> A way to loop without using [].
15:23:25 <myname> i doubt that
15:23:43 <myname> you need way longer to write an instruction than to execute
15:24:17 <myname> there is some bf derivate with instructions of only 3 bit
15:24:25 <ais523> Aura's believed sub-TC, btw
15:24:28 <myname> and selfmodifying
15:25:10 <MDude> I don't quite know what you mean by that, myname.
15:25:31 <myname> [ is not whatever ord('[') is but e.g. 3
15:25:31 <j-bot> myname: |spelling error
15:25:31 <j-bot> myname: | is not whatever ord('[') is but e.g. 3
15:25:31 <j-bot> myname: | ^
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15:25:58 <MDude> Bigger obstacle that I just remember is that I was going to see if I could have the data space by a 3x3 grid of bits.
15:26:09 <myname> ah
15:26:11 <myname> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Agony
15:26:13 <myname> that one
15:27:10 <MDude> Oh, you were talking about Braintwist.
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15:28:41 <ais523> what about braintwist with BF Joust-style RLE ?
15:37:25 <MDude> Is there a language made to have code represented as zzstructures?
15:42:11 <MDude> Aw, BeQunge's site seems to be down.
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15:43:18 <MDude> Or at least has turned into some weird thing where it expects me to download an application/x-httpd-php (563 bytes) named dmaupKve.
15:44:18 <ais523> "x-httpd-php"?
15:44:32 <ais523> presumably that's "page generated by a PHP script which won't say what format it's in"
15:44:47 <MDude> Yeah I'm not sure either.
15:47:28 <MDude> To me it sounds a bit like a televized clown jumping into the camera's feild of veiw and saying "Hey guys, it's time for virus city!"
15:47:44 <MDude> Though it could just be misconfigured stuff, yeah.
15:47:59 <ais523> a sensible virus wouldn't claim to be in a format that no browser knows how to open
15:48:14 <MDude> A well made one, no.
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15:49:38 <MDude> What I'm wondering now though why when I right click it my options are "Open" and "Mount ImDisk as Virtual Disk".
15:49:52 <ais523> does the second option appear for absolutely every file on your computer?
15:50:15 <ais523> if so, it's probably an overly optimistic shell extension (or less charitably, one that's trying to advertise its existence by appearing on all your context menus)
15:50:38 <MDude> Ah, I see it is.
15:51:34 <ais523> the number of ways that Windows program developers come up with to advertise their programs is shocking
15:52:02 <MDude> I was wondering why the menu wasn't showing open as/with.
15:52:46 <MDude> But I guess it thinks it doens't need to, if it'll open the same menu when I try to open it anyway.
15:56:29 <MDude> Yep, it's php.
15:56:37 <MDude> Starts with <?php
15:56:38 <MDude> $activelink = 0;
15:56:38 <MDude> include("header.php");
15:56:38 <MDude> ?>
15:56:38 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: v @ ? .
15:57:10 <MDude> And ends with <?php
15:57:10 <MDude> $activelink = 0;
15:57:10 <MDude> include("header.php");
15:57:10 <MDude> ?>
15:57:10 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: v @ ? .
15:57:29 <MDude> ?
15:57:53 <MDude> I meant <?php
15:57:53 <MDude> include("footer.php");
15:57:53 <MDude> ?>
15:57:53 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: v @ ? .
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16:05:06 <irctc984> ау маги)
16:05:42 <irctc984> i search girl for tantric))
16:06:00 -!- hjulle has joined.
16:06:03 <ais523> irctc984: do you know what this channel is about? or are you a spambot?
16:06:35 <irctc984> i yogi
16:06:43 <ais523> `welcome irctc984
16:06:46 <irctc984> who are you?
16:06:54 <ais523> esoteric programmer, like everyone else here
16:07:11 <ais523> Gregor: hackego's down
16:07:19 <irctc984> dou speak russian?)
16:07:23 <ais523> but this channel is about programming languages that aren't widely used
16:07:33 <ais523> and is mostly in english, and occasionally finnish or norwegian or swedish
16:07:50 <irctc984> i know php java c++ c# ruby python
16:08:21 <irctc984> ^^
16:08:31 <irctc984> hail Odin!
16:08:48 <ais523> here's our website: http://esolangs.org/
16:09:03 <ais523> if you don't find it relevant/interesting, you're probably in the wrong place
16:09:04 <ais523> if you do, then welcome
16:09:07 <ais523> (sadly the welcome bot is down)
16:09:38 <irctc984> new progrmm lang?
16:10:03 <ais523> yes, basically experimental programming languages
16:10:08 <irctc984> sorry me need magic)
16:10:10 <ais523> that don't have to be useful
16:10:11 <ais523> right
16:10:20 <ais523> there is a channel for that sort of thing, but it's not on freenode
16:10:23 <ais523> I forget where offhand
16:10:28 <ais523> (also it's normally empty)
16:10:33 <irctc984> )
16:10:37 <ais523> let me search logs, a moment
16:11:31 <ais523> irctc984: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
16:11:34 <ais523> there we go
16:11:50 <ais523> that other channel is sadly normally empty, but perhaps if you idle there long enough, someone else will turn up
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16:24:06 <fizzie> Ooh, long time no "other esoteric" visitor.
16:24:24 <ais523> some day two of them are going to meet each other
16:24:43 <ais523> and discover that they both care about entirely disjoint subsets of other-esoterica
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18:46:15 <int-e> Ah, another anagol record unreachable due to abolishing NPlusKPatterns
18:47:47 <b_jonas> which one?
18:48:11 <int-e> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Smileys+Triangle
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18:58:06 <int-e> The parsing of n+k patterns is a bit odd. One may write let n+1?m = n, but not let n?m+1 = m, regardless of the operator's fixity.
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19:09:57 <int-e> Ghc is a bit too generous there, accepting programs that are invalid by the Haskell 98 report. I don't think this will be fixed :)
19:16:59 <int-e> b_jonas: obviously I have no proof, the evidence consists of a) a working solution of the right size, using n+k patterns and b) failure to produce a non-n+k-patterns solution despite trying fairly hard.
19:17:18 <b_jonas> int-e: sure
19:17:27 <b_jonas> it's hard to be sure with these kinds of problems
19:21:30 <int-e> earlier I improved the Haskell record for http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Timeout after 7 years, hard to believe all those people missed that idea.
19:24:54 <int-e> but! that was the second time I attempted this problem and the first time I ended up with main=print[0..] like everybody else, and was satisfied at the time.
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19:38:40 <shachaf> int-e: I'm also surprised no one tried main=getChar
19:38:54 <shachaf> Or, hmm.
19:39:00 <shachaf> Maybe it doesn't work, oops.
19:40:21 <pikhq> main=unsafeCast $ main -- thar you go
19:41:03 <shachaf> ?
19:41:08 <pikhq> I... dunno.
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19:50:05 <CrazyM4n> does main=main work?
19:51:08 <CrazyM4n> It should, since "let f=f in f" works
19:51:21 <shachaf> Neither one works.
19:51:38 <CrazyM4n> Really? "let f=f in f" stopped my ghci
19:51:54 <CrazyM4n> Maybe ghci has such radically different rules that that works for some reason
19:52:06 <shachaf> radical, man
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19:54:08 <CrazyM4n> ³√4
19:54:11 <CrazyM4n> So radical
19:59:14 <CakeMeat> Howd you create that symbol
19:59:31 <CrazyM4n> Looked it up
19:59:31 <CrazyM4n> √√√
19:59:32 <int-e> CrazyM4n: I'm actually not quite sure why the RTS's loop detection doesn't trigger for that code in ghci. With main=main and compiled code the program terminates and prints <<loop>>
20:00:32 <CakeMeat> Fancy
20:02:20 <CrazyM4n> Huh
20:03:22 -!- lowdown has left ("Leaving").
20:03:35 <CakeMeat> Hm?
20:05:53 -!- Patashu has joined.
20:06:10 <CrazyM4n> ;~; it's so hard to debug a curses app
20:08:41 <CrazyM4n> Okay, why in the world
20:08:59 <CrazyM4n> A 1,000 size pad crashes when I try to draw to the char at [999, 999]
20:14:03 <CakeMeat> Idk
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21:14:04 <AndoDaan> hola
21:14:59 <AndoDaan> Would anyone have advice on where (with who) I should host my own webpages?
21:17:44 <ais523> depends on whether it's static hosting, or something more complex (CGI, etc.)
21:17:49 <ais523> and how much money you have
21:18:12 <ais523> static hosting is basically trivial nowadays, so there are probably a ton of companies willing to do it for cheap/free, some of which are more reputable than others
21:18:41 <AndoDaan> little money, that for sure. And it would be first for like running javascript interpreters, not sure if that static or not.
21:19:15 <ais523> you can do that static
21:19:23 <ais523> actually you can do that without hosting, just it's hard to send the results to other people
21:20:17 <AndoDaan> if people click on raw under a github html page, would they see the html page as if it were hosted?
21:20:33 <AndoDaan> html code page, I mean.
21:21:52 <ais523> AndoDaan: not on github itself
21:21:58 <ais523> however, github.io (not .com) does something very like that
21:22:04 <ais523> but I don't know the details
21:22:10 <ais523> …let me visit their home page and see if it explains
21:22:33 <AndoDaan> I'll have a look too. Thanks.
21:22:44 <ais523> oh wow is this saddeningly github
21:23:01 <ais523> that page reminds me of how much I hate github
21:23:05 <ais523> seriously seriously hate
21:23:11 <ais523> but I think it does the job you need it to
21:23:40 <ais523> github's already the hosting site with the least understanding of git, and they seem to actively promote their users not understanding git either
21:23:44 <ais523> so things go wrong all the time
21:23:51 <ais523> or, well, there's probably some site even worse than github
21:23:52 <AndoDaan> Really? Why do you dislike github? I mean, I'm not too familiar with it, but it seems to be the most recommended.
21:24:04 <ais523> no, it's the most /popular/, people use it due to network effects
21:24:24 <ais523> but basically they're trying to be a social network, and are using repositories as the hook to draw people in
21:24:45 <AndoDaan> all the starring...
21:25:35 <ais523> that, and the utter desperation for users (signup process doesn't even have a confirm password, so there's no way to know you typed it correctly, and is directly on the home page while logged out)
21:25:53 <ais523> and the way they create and recommend a "github client for windows" that doesn't understand git (seriously, I've seen people try to use it)
21:26:53 <AndoDaan> I've used it... once. Now I just manually upload, or copy/paste, the few things I put on there.
21:27:05 <AndoDaan> I'm small fries though.
21:27:29 <ais523> that is also not how git works
21:28:05 <AndoDaan> Hmm, you mean it's for collaboration?
21:30:21 <ais523> collaboration; version history; syncing a repo between multiple machines
21:30:27 <ais523> these are some of the most basic things a VCS does
21:30:57 <ais523> not "copy-paste your work into a website" or "download this client that doesn't actually have any way to access most of git's functionality, and the subset it does apparently provide access to is really misleading"
21:31:14 <AndoDaan> What did you use for INTERCALC(?)
21:32:02 <ais523> I didn't write INTERCALC
21:32:12 <ais523> if someone is confusing me with claudio calvelli again, I will get mildly frustrated
21:34:07 <AndoDaan> You didn't, but I thought you, together with an Eric person, collected everything that was known on the language into one central location.
21:34:36 <AndoDaan> i think i read an article.
21:35:14 <ais523> AndoDaan: oh, that article
21:35:31 <ais523> you should probably not consider everything written in it to be true, or at least, non-misleading
21:35:43 <ais523> I'm not sure if there are any actual false statements in it, but I wouldn't have told the story like taht
21:36:02 <ais523> also, the "eric person" is pretty famous, one of the few people who's referenceable by initials
21:38:32 <AndoDaan> Wait, is he the same person that wrote the hacker's lingo dictionary and hacker's guide (or something like that)?
21:38:54 <fizzie> He didn't write the jargon file either.
21:39:03 <ais523> he's the same person who maintains the jargon file, yes, but didn't originally write it
21:39:28 <ais523> AndoDaan: here's the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond
21:39:29 <fizzie> I guess he "wrote" (edited) the one print version.
21:39:54 <coppro> it's been so long that I've been working on killing d_level, but now I've forgotten what I want to do next
21:40:14 <coppro> I know I was working on some migration stuff, but I can't remember why :/
21:41:00 <ais523> coppro: possible mischan?
21:41:41 <coppro> ah, yes
21:41:43 <AndoDaan> Nethack as well, you've must have known him for a while. I keep meaning to try nethack, but it seems so big to get started on.
21:42:02 <coppro> ais523: I sort of assume that NH is ontopic in any channel you're talking in
21:42:09 <coppro> same with agora
21:42:18 <ais523> I, hmm
21:42:26 <ais523> on Freenode that rule does seem to almost apply
21:42:32 <ais523> I can think of one exception (agora in #tasvideos)
21:42:57 <nys> okay okay so
21:43:01 <ais523> I'm currently in two channels in synirc which have lax topicality rules, but trying to bring up either nethack or agora would likely be ignored at best and shunned at worst
21:43:23 <nys> brainfuck is a language that can be executed as a string
21:43:30 <nys> it doesn't really require "parsing"
21:43:31 <ais523> most languages are like that
21:43:43 <ais523> but some are better executable as strings than others
21:43:45 <nys> beyond a case statement
21:43:50 <ais523> technically you could do it with C, but it'd be a nightmare
21:43:59 <nys> some massive state machine
21:44:38 <nys> okay but so is it possible to encapsulate some method of abstraction in such a language
21:45:15 <ais523> I'm not sure it's possible to create a TC language with no abstraction
21:45:28 <ais523> worst case you write an interpreter for a language with abstraction, plus a program for it to run
21:45:51 <coppro> I'm only in one channel in synirc
21:46:00 <nys> well i mean a kind of abstraction meaningful to humans
21:46:01 <coppro> synirc has really unreliable infrastructure, though; comparable to freenode
21:46:08 <nys> or accessible to humans perhaps
21:49:40 <ais523> pretty much all the really inaccessible languages
21:49:48 <ais523> like that 2,3 machine that wolfram set his prize for
21:50:05 <ais523> are only programmable in by defining many layers of abstraction on top of them until you find something that humans can mentally grasp
21:50:39 <AndoDaan> (that you won)
21:51:05 <nys> blurp
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21:54:21 <nys> reverse polish s k combinators
21:57:40 * Sgeo remembers a Berenstain Bears book explaining a beautiful sunset as being caused by pollution
21:59:37 <fizzie> ais523: What's "synirc"? (I mean, any special topic, or just generic IRCery?)
22:00:13 <ais523> no idea if it has any particular topic
22:00:50 <fizzie> I'm not sure what I'll use as an IRCnet server in UK. Here in Finland, all the ISPs have their own.
22:02:02 <ais523> huh, you are moving to the UK, then?
22:02:04 <ais523> or just planning?
22:02:14 <fizzie> Moving on Jan 2, 2015.
22:02:52 <fizzie> (I only remember irc.stealth.net as an open server, and it was rather unstable. Ten years ago or so. I did find out open.ircnet.net is a DNS alias for five open servers, but I have no idea whether those are any better.)
22:03:28 <ais523> now I wonder why anyone would want to come here
22:03:45 <ais523> I guess I can construe it as an attempt to restore the finland/hexham balance
22:03:56 <ais523> …you're not moving to Hexham, are you?
22:04:13 <fizzie> No; London. (I got job offers from there and from Aachen, Germany.)
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22:05:07 <fizzie> As far as cities go, Aachen might have been more to my liking. I'm just hoping nobody has managed to make a city as big as London completely uninhabitable.
22:05:28 <ais523> london is possibly unlike any other city
22:05:52 <ais523> first time I went there, it struck me as a bit odd that my parents gave me specific london-handling advice in advance
22:06:09 <ais523> in retrospect, it wasn't 100% necessary, but I could see why people could think it would be
22:06:33 <fizzie> I've been there doing the tourist thing a couple of times (3?), but that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge. Except I did see that one documentary.
22:06:55 <ais523> also, I think london has reached some sort of reverse-singularity where the number of jobs required to support the population of london is now sufficiently high that it's impossible to fit enough people into london to do those jobs
22:07:19 <ais523> thus, some large proportion of people have to commute, and commuting into london is both very crowded and very expensive
22:07:53 <fizzie> We'll be looking for a place that's (a) quiet and peaceful, (b) within a reasonable commute from the job, and (c) cheap, which I'm sure will be entirely trivial to find.
22:07:56 <coppro> ais523: this is not uncommon of large cities
22:08:01 <coppro> fizzie: ahahahahahahah
22:08:18 <fizzie> (We've got a company-provided place for January and February to do some looking.)
22:08:32 <ais523> fizzie: oh wow
22:08:45 <ais523> "cheap" by those definitions is on the order of a million pounds, last I looked
22:09:11 <fizzie> It's not "that bad". I mean, you don't have to go *that* far to be easily under, say, £1500/month.
22:09:46 <ais523> how central is the workplace?
22:09:56 <ais523> if it's outskirts it hopefully shouldn't be too bad
22:10:05 <fizzie> It's about next door to Buckingham Palace, so... quite?
22:10:32 <fizzie> My wife's parents suggested asking the Queen for spare rooms.
22:10:35 <coppro> haha
22:10:35 <fizzie> I hear it's a big palace.
22:10:52 <AndoDaan> Share with the corgies.
22:11:00 <coppro> I expect you're going to get very familiar with the Tube
22:11:22 <ais523> actually I'm beginning to wonder if the tube is even worthwhile for zone 1 journeys
22:11:35 <ais523> I'm not convinced that going down to tube level, then back up to street level, is faster than just walking in many cases
22:11:40 <fizzie> Well, it's also next to Victoria station. Some of the places we've been preliminarily looking at seemed to have somewhat reasonable overground commuting railroad connections.
22:11:45 <ais523> partly depends on which line you're on
22:12:33 <fizzie> The relocation package includes two days of time with a local "homesearch consultant" who's supposed to be knowledgeable about these things, I'm hoping that'll help.
22:13:44 <ais523> companies in london have to get good at this sort of thing
22:13:53 <ais523> if they want their employees to be able to afford to stay working for them
22:13:57 <ais523> so yes, I imagine it will help
22:14:14 <ais523> government-funded jobs (like teaching) have much higher salaries in london, partly because of this sort of thing
22:15:10 <ais523> my advice is, enter the same character name
22:15:22 <ais523> if you get a "shall I pick for you?" prompt, quit out and then run recover
22:15:51 <ais523> mischan, sorry
22:16:13 <fizzie> ...that confused me quite a bit, actually.
22:16:30 <fizzie> At least the first line seemed like it could just possibly be relevant.
22:16:33 <ais523> it's the fact that nobody talked in between
22:16:41 <ais523> that makes it hard to follow
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22:43:19 <oerjan> fizzie: HackEgo is strangely missing hth
22:47:56 <nys> http://pastie.org/private/b6c8kaawz19ilhxixwva mmmmmmmmmmm
22:48:32 <nys> the class of evaluators you can only stare dreamily at
22:48:32 <CakeMeat> WhatS this
22:48:41 <CakeMeat> Oh my
22:49:49 <oerjan> nys: it's tricky to do anything useful with an ExpVal. i guess you could throw exceptions.
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22:50:07 <nys> yeah
22:50:28 <nys> it'd be nice to just return regular functions but the type system doesn't like that so much
22:50:34 <CakeMeat> Mmm green olives and a yogurt cup is best lunch
22:50:56 <elliott> it's relatively easy to extend expval with stuck terms though
22:50:59 <oerjan> adding a monad is easy, though.
22:51:34 <nys> is it??
22:51:41 <nys> that's what i wanted to do next!!
22:52:03 <nys> well i mean, adding IO capabilities
22:52:16 <oerjan> or what i did in the Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download implementation.
22:52:52 <elliott> data Sem = Stuck String [Sem] | Fun (Sem -> Sem)
22:53:09 <oerjan> data WHNF a = WHNF { ann :: Maybe a, fun :: (WHNF a -> WHNF a) }
22:53:09 <oerjan> type EXPR a = [WHNF a] -> WHNF a
22:53:20 <elliott> ($$) :: Sem -> Sem -> Sem; Stuck n xs $$ x = Stuck n (xs ++ [x]); Fun f $$ x = f x
22:53:43 <oerjan> i guess my a is like your Stuck, except that everything _also_ has a function interpretation.
22:53:51 <elliott> add ... | Var String to the source language that evalutes to Stuck n [] and voila
22:54:34 <oerjan> that WHNF is probably really misnamed as a result of later rewriting of the code
22:54:47 * nys blinks
22:56:56 <int-e> nys: just renaming: http://lpaste.net/7364802953296740352 (my motivation was that there's a natural name for a record selector, namely 'apply')
22:58:16 <nys> makes sense
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23:00:22 <fizzie> oerjan: I managed to log in but then it hung up on me and now it no longer answers.
23:00:29 <oerjan> fizzie: eek
23:00:48 <oerjan> the wiki was working a moment ago...
23:01:16 <fizzie> Yes, and at least from my point of view it stopped too.
23:01:41 <nys> elliott, what exactly is what you just described?
23:02:06 <elliott> nys: I'll write a demonstration
23:05:40 <oerjan> <ais523> and discover that they both care about entirely disjoint subsets of other-esoterica <-- aww
23:08:22 <elliott> nys: http://sprunge.us/dcOA
23:12:02 <oerjan> <int-e> earlier I improved the Haskell record for http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Timeout after 7 years, hard to believe all those people missed that idea. <-- maybe it didn't work before, due to different blackholing or whatever...
23:12:20 <oerjan> like, main=main _could_ work that way (although you say it doesn't)
23:12:46 <shachaf> I don't expect main = main >> main to <<loop>>
23:12:47 <nys> hm cool cool
23:13:04 <shachaf> Any more than I'd expect main = print 5 >> main to loop
23:13:24 <oerjan> shachaf: hm i guess.
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23:13:28 <fizzie> oerjan: DONE.
23:13:30 <oerjan> yay!
23:14:08 <fizzie> I'm sure it'll suffer from another hiccup soon and go down again.
23:14:09 <oerjan> `learn_append myname His evil twin brother is Perl.
23:14:21 <oerjan> perhaps immediately.
23:14:25 <HackEgo> Learned 'myname': myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? His evil twin brother is Perl.
23:14:42 <oerjan> hm that doesn't fit in so well.
23:14:49 <oerjan> but then, when did Perl ever.
23:15:15 <myname> :D
23:15:33 <myname> wtf @ php sollutions for timeout
23:16:31 <myname> oerjan: also, you are quite serious about that log reading thing
23:17:51 <shachaf> oerjan: would using // for slashlearn satisfy your pedantry twh
23:19:17 <oerjan> what pedantry, i've never used that command anyway...
23:19:26 <oerjan> (or have i?)
23:21:23 <shachaf> 2014-10-02.txt:04:22:14: <oerjan> technically you can have slash too, but you need to create the directories first >:)
23:22:02 <shachaf> 2014-10-03.txt:11:31:02: <oerjan> `slashlearn fnord/? ¯\(°<U+200B>_o)/¯
23:22:31 <oerjan> ah
23:22:42 <shachaf> `? fnord
23:22:44 <HackEgo> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:25:14 <oerjan> i'm not sure we want to encourage directories. for one thing, if there is a directory it cannot also be a file...
23:31:09 <shachaf> whoa, "Heikki is a Finnish form of the man's name Henry."
23:31:40 <myname> http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Timeout/leonid_1205162298&rb that's a cheat
23:31:58 <shachaf> cheating is allowed hth
23:32:24 <myname> "exec is forbidden"
23:34:47 <oerjan> @tell <ais523> I can think of one exception (agora in #tasvideos) <-- you need to make that tasvideo now hth
23:34:48 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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23:35:38 <shachaf> oerjan: does @tell support <> now twh
23:35:46 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAA
23:35:57 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> I can think of one exception (agora in #tasvideos) <-- you need to make that tasvideo now hth
23:35:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:36:07 <oerjan> @tell ais523 getting rules passed to make agora tas'able is left as an exercise
23:36:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:36:24 <fizzie> shachaf: Probably via "Henrik". And these days we have "Henri" as a Finnish name, too.
23:37:18 <fizzie> Perhaps "these days" is not quite right, but it's popularity peak is clearly later according to http://verkkopalvelu.vrk.fi/nimipalvelu/nimipalvelu_etunimihaku.asp?L=3
23:37:34 <oerjan> @ask <oerjan> does @tell support <> now twh
23:37:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:37:39 <oerjan> hi there
23:37:43 <oerjan> NOPE
23:38:08 <boily> <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAA ← ?
23:38:32 <boily> (also, bon soirjan.)
23:39:04 <oerjan> boily: see previous comment by shachaf
23:40:00 <oerjan> @tell int-e it would be nice if @tell could like warn about illegal chars in nicks
23:40:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:40:48 <boily> oerjan: oh.
23:40:59 <shachaf> oerjan: it already handles "@tell foo:" and "@tell foo," hth
23:41:03 <boily> shachaf: @tell is not a monoid hth
23:41:18 <shachaf> tdnh
23:41:33 <shachaf> oh, i see, you're saying it's hard
23:41:38 <oerjan> shachaf: it wouldn't be right anyway, since i actually _want_ the <...> as part of the quoted message
23:42:00 <shachaf> oerjan: I know.
23:42:06 <shachaf> the point is that it's a mess hth
23:42:12 <shachaf> why not just lose hope
23:42:24 <oerjan> oh i did that long ago.
23:43:00 <oerjan> but what does that have to do with bug fixing
23:43:49 <boily> “when your program fails for parts of the domain, change the domain.”
23:44:15 <oerjan> boily: that's pretty much the rule here, yeah
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