< 1418860808 334852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: I don't know what the control structure should be though... < 1418860819 138431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF [] is clearly too much because you could just pretend you have a tape < 1418860845 147733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something where you can only walk one constant "path" through nodes, the same for every iteration of the loop < 1418860853 723622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to rewire the graph to do anything non-balanced < 1418860917 712020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: things similar to gridfuc definitely exists, see e.g. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Paintfuck < 1418860972 715714 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418860974 329258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love paintfuck < 1418860975 934566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so pretty < 1418860977 97682 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after I invented treehugger (<^>) and gridfuck (<^>v) i need to create pentagonalfuck, based on icosahedral symmetry < 1418860991 377139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about fuck, with a zero-dimensional tape < 1418861008 941305 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo world would be something like: +++++++++++++++.+++++++. < 1418861022 730366 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats funnny < 1418861025 45175 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub turing < 1418861067 691932 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to make a page for that............ < 1418861081 17157 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to be https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fuck_(ehird) < 1418861087 176855 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems offensive < 1418861090 862239 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861098 866800 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fuck exists < 1418861123 911867 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be called Nofucks but fuck is better < 1418861170 729717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this fuck language looks boring and is implemented in php so imo we should just delete it and pretend it never happened < 1418861176 385033 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes lol < 1418861184 504424 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although not really since thats mean) < 1418861208 803644 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be moved to Fuck_(Josefnpat) < 1418861221 670446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what happened with clue < 1418861225 902196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well both of them got moved < 1418861235 730409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rare one because both of them are actually good < 1418861243 425065 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thats the one I was thinking of < 1418861247 861646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you have only one natural of state what kind of operations do you need to be able to simulate a counter machine on it? < 1418861267 469748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some kind of arithmetic? < 1418861319 199292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fractran operations < 1418861326 370050 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tohught there was already a zero dimeinsonal BF. < 1418861329 585375 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check. < 1418861331 566968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, right < 1418861338 28593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't fractran's state a rational though? but yeah < 1418861339 54984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :see minsky machine article as well < 1418861354 345630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the instructions are rational < 1418861386 163918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an instruction only applies if multiplying current state by it gives an integer < 1418861388 331887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, okay, yeah < 1418861394 199955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so unbrainfucky though :( < 1418861403 787948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not possible with a finite number of commands < 1418861426 232044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what's infinite about fractran commands < 1418861432 758409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean the number < 1418861434 215440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean there's an infinite number of rationals < 1418861437 249838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally there would only be eight rationals < 1418861449 84724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: the good thing about this language is that +[>+] is very easy in it < 1418861450 97548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAT < 1418861463 886631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can restrict to a finite number of primes < 1418861485 157845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractranfuck sounds boring :( < 1418861489 616028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at it the minsky 1-register machine version < 1418861495 12363 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-it < 1418861496 850756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's not really much brainfuck about it by then. < 1418861514 534597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have [] check for zero or whatever because every loop would have to forget everything, and + and - would need changing < 1418861532 871534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I am pleased to announce that my new zero-dimensional-tape brainfuck derivative, fractran, is finished < 1418861542 572506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfrac < 1418861555 99210 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1418861565 856448 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the fractran guy? < 1418861572 24392 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote a self interpreter in fractran < 1418861575 422763 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite impressive! < 1418861581 213071 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made up a whole 'high level'fractran language to do it < 1418861591 319826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't conway invent something more creative than a brainfuck derivative < 1418861603 970380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats elliott -----###
< 1418861608 729001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've seen a fractran self-interpreter < 1418861610 296941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds amazing < 1418861616 710088 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game of Life is a Brainfuck derivative?! < 1418861622 551257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes. also fractran < 1418861625 142732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: shocking < 1418861631 696225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and collatz functions < 1418861640 325203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and surreal numbers if you're high enough < 1418861643 479868 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So are all Turing-complete languages Brainfuck derivatives now? < 1418861657 113207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: only those conway made hth < 1418861657 411941 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surreal numbers are cool. < 1418861658 133988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, just everything john conway has ever done is a brainfuck derivative < 1418861668 722834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is a total fraud < 1418861691 970761 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you should kick yourself for this. < 1418861696 428696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1418861698 729332 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :elliott > 1418861699 117377 NAMES :#esoteric < 1418861701 416342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott KICK #esoteric elliott :trolling < 1418861704 977661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861710 470180 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861710 940614 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :elliott > 1418861710 966166 NAMES :#esoteric < 1418861717 109167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't rejoin so quickly after being kicked < 1418861719 908996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric +b :*!*elliott@unaffiliated/elliott > 1418861719 935437 NAMES :#esoteric < 1418861719 952152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott KICK #esoteric elliott :elliott < 1418861763 690021 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whether elliot has to read ChanServ's help page to find the command that unbans oneself.
< 1418861774 22732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's had it coming for a while < 1418861778 390904 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voting to move http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fuck to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fuck_(Josefnpat) < 1418861792 775433 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418861792 818811 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418861794 842559 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. UNBAN. well, that's too easy to remember reliably. < 1418861806 362559 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418861813 514501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: cannot move until there is an actual ambiguity hth < 1418861820 831946 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861822 66220 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to create Fuck < 1418861857 10882 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418861859 562813 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418861864 498013 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861872 318351 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric -b :*!*elliott@unaffiliated/elliott > 1418861872 345021 NAMES :#esoteric < 1418861875 782491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861880 7966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: you make Fuck_(Cluid_Whateveritwasagain), and then we turn Fuck into a disambiguation page hth < 1418861890 740877 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no http://esolangs.org/wiki/Sex < 1418861894 706479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418861899 455556 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861900 869867 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861905 270883 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not by me though :( < 1418861908 541432 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have come up with this ide < 1418861909 117745 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1418861927 163085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: am I old enough to get +R in chanserv permissions yet < 1418861938 427285 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~beder/interpreter.frp is missing :( < 1418861971 174859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, I'm actually exempt from +b < 1418861973 342207 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :elliott > 1418861973 368392 NAMES :#esoteric < 1418861975 996091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric +b :$a:elliott > 1418861976 21948 NAMES :#esoteric < 1418861978 126330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART :#esoteric < 1418861991 810559 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric -b :$a:elliott > 1418861991 836887 NAMES :#esoteric < 1418861993 962722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1418861996 301822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the docs lied. < 1418862003 133474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it means that I can talk while +b < 1418862015 668310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't think it's a good idea to give increased permissions to people who keep getting banned hth < 1418862054 764265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd get to run lovely commands like < 1418862056 13544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:21 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- More precisely, everyone will be deopped, < 1418862059 275973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:21 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- limit and key will be cleared, all bans < 1418862062 243344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:21 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- matching you are removed, a ban exception < 1418862065 223572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:21 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- matching you is added (in case of bans Atheme < 1418862068 293172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:21 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- can't see), the channel is set invite-only < 1418862071 294918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:21 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- and moderated and you are invited. < 1418862112 3473 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://web.archive.org/web/20130131042427/http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1749905/code-golf-fractran < 1418862112 961961 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, < 1418862120 682036 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fractran: 84 fractions < 1418862152 799395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe i should just remove +R from everyone else instead. < 1418862158 924709 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://web.archive.org/web/20100217054518/http://www.trinhhaianh.com/testvector1.out < 1418862174 143850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that sounds like a bad idea (I'm not sure you'd even be able to?) < 1418862185 243437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: nice! maybe I have seen this actually < 1418862191 137699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i cannot do it to the founder, presumably < 1418862192 860716 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lpaste.net/116731 < 1418862195 969029 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is 'high level fractran' < 1418862202 19574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i think is freenode something? < 1418862212 665194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So I'm guessing that running the interpreter will take at least days, if not years :(" fractran is the language of the future < 1418862234 75281 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe write a fractran JIT optimizing hyperinterpreter hth < 1418862236 675121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tbf if I really wanted to I could kick everyone myself < 1418862260 743204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this weird thing known as like, a tiny sliver of responsibility < 1418862276 95430 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fractran implemented by prim factorization or by GCD calcluation? < 1418862279 348244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets the microscope to check
< 1418862311 25788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: you don't need to use either, you can just use integer division; not very efficient though. < 1418862312 416516 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is fractran in x86 but it may not handle larger programs < 1418862314 289854 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fun fact < 1418862316 640284 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) < 1418862328 267550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bignum integers, that is) < 1418862330 890499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: the second answer is way cooler < 1418862334 26236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so small and actually terminates < 1418862335 831056 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, alright well isn't the integer division the best? < 1418862368 887088 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: if you factor everything you can extract something like a counter machine < 1418862370 676515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another self-interpreter) < 1418862376 684665 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may be more efficient to execute < 1418862386 341750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: well if you have a number that is 2**1986408 * 3**231980560 you may not wish to store it as a normal integer < 1418862427 248822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I did not write a compiler and opted to write optimized Fractran code directly." is just hardcore < 1418862429 476689 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the programmer is evil and uses products of large primes, a gcd may be better than full factorization. < 1418862445 76679 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :... a gcd based partial factorization that is. < 1418862447 589688 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh tyeah good ! < 1418862462 458101 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i have thought about such a gcd based factorization before < 1418862489 874802 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to have a compiler from 'high level fractran' to ffractran < 1418862491 854241 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not use how to do subs < 1418862497 858321 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, its so hardcore and cool < 1418862500 695462 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think thats great < 1418862537 587946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like writing directly in machine code except the machine code was designed by a mathematician trying to torture you and is also a brainfuck derivative < 1418862597 343201 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this way we can interpret th high level code directly) < 1418862644 101494 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll mentally replace "brainfuck derivative" by "rainbow unicorn" when the former is used in connection with inventions of Conway. < 1418862656 868484 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418862669 690961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when he actually makes a brainfuck derivative < 1418862683 404341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to email him and ask him to pick his eight favourite words and put them on the wiki < 1418862701 382814 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he'll be an expert breeder as well as a great mathematician. < 1418862722 259259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :resurrect dijkstra and force him to make a bf derivative at gunpoint < 1418862755 657212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he sweats but agrees, producing the first brainfuck derivative for formal verification < 1418862765 453714 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418862778 975660 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] considered harmful < 1418862783 56627 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dijkstra should be happy with Brainfuck; there are no gotos. < 1418862806 69067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure you can call brainfuck "structured" < 1418862818 436515 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. there are loops. < 1418862826 642849 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about GOTO FUCK < 1418862831 291124 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 > < 1418862834 440348 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 + < 1418862840 896176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that exists more or less < 1418862841 492837 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 GOTO 10 < 1418862853 483906 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Basic Brainfuck" < 1418862858 555092 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a book about brainfuck derivatives < 1418862871 947532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dijkstra was actually alive for like nine years after brainfuck was invented so I like to believe he knew about its existence < 1418862909 879968 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plausible < 1418862922 621039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he would let himself laugh at it though < 1418862935 131724 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's an easy rank 4 now. henkma struck. < 1418862941 198711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he would mumble something about programmers managing to innovate on APL < 1418862952 3307 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing tarpits have their use. < 1418863002 136876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :long lost handwritten EWD note about his new esolang < 1418863056 603039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: eek! < 1418863135 621573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Two I like how one of the instructions is just called "Instruction" < 1418863157 943753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it states there's no maximum value but contains an instruction to set the current cell to it < 1418863160 603236 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should make a book about brainfuck derivatives < 1418863176 124478 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will literally turn you into a fucking brick < 1418863207 721644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: pls stop (like, four years ago ideally) < 1418863231 844460 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had up til now! < 1418863245 119878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, girl genius still not updated < 1418863277 159662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like quitting smoking between every cigarette < 1418863284 863410 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'll sue the Foglios for sleep deprivation. :P < 1418863317 719575 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I've started checking GG T/T/S < 1418863325 970872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay actually Two is kind of interesting, meh < 1418863330 608080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: shocking < 1418864126 466386 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418864170 281088 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any superturing brainfucks? < 1418864177 624119 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think zzo made one? < 1418864185 90459 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418864200 354835 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainhype? < 1418864231 878388 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1418864249 110480 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its by ihope < 1418864258 527280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re's plenty. Two is one of them even < 1418864260 327916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there's < 1418864301 488649 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Brainhype interpreter written in Brainhype cannot exist. However, you can write a Brainhype interpreter in Scheme-omega. < 1418864307 171673 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you can write one in scheme-omega? < 1418864320 58964 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: restarting < 1418864399 965192 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck Derivatives14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41497 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+2616) 10Created page < 1418864420 576548 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a collection fo some of the best BF derivatives - if you can suggest more I can add them, or you can add them < 1418864487 98424 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks for including MNNBGFSL. < 1418864504 597307 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418864539 160921 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan, MMBFSL is good because it's interesting how to show its turing complete.. < 1418864559 478524 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it been shown that MNNBFSL is TC? < 1418864574 475450 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ehird 5* 10moved [[02Brainfuck Derivatives10]] to [[Brainfuck derivatives]]: capitalisation convention < 1418864579 190802 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xtutehjkcbyoukhd QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1418864597 370722 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan, theres an assembler somewhere that adds GOTO to the language < 1418864648 841419 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck derivatives14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41500&oldid=41498 5* 03Ehird 5* (+40) 10links < 1418864667 515742 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, cool. Do you know where I could find it? < 1418864668 415280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckbrainfuck isn't really a derivative so much as an implementation choice < 1418864673 158580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :many "bf" implementations have a both-infinite tape < 1418864685 654098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguably right-infinite tape is a derivative, seeing as the original implementations had finite tapes) < 1418864711 451287 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh maybe it shoud be delted from there then < 1418864742 357080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf with left-infinite but right-finite tape < 1418864747 746171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get 4 cells to the right and infinite to the left < 1418864751 720504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're bonus < 1418864789 463331 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1418864795 456208 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 is too many. 3 bonus cells should be ample. < 1418864830 69513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not stingy < 1418864911 280423 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :bff actually functions similarly to that in its previous buggy version < 1418864924 853911 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be left infinite but there was an allocation bug < 1418864979 392579 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it crashes if you go more than 128 cells to the left or something < 1418864986 628588 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember the number < 1418865000 756169 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :30K cells and 0-255 isn't enough for turing completeness, is it? < 1418865105 996710 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418865111 430419 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418865180 275487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1418865186 110181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything * anything isn't enough if those anythings are finite < 1418865188 909406 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youo haev to have actually infinite < 1418865203 726880 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's beacuse e.g. something subturing like a regex could capture any finite language < 1418865212 98343 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to have infinite just to make the math work otu < 1418865264 862623 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1418865342 706048 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can quantum brainfuck compute something in less steps than classical brainfuck? < 1418865373 107335 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1418865392 85649 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ihope127 it woudl be nice if all his languages weere listed here < 1418865403 926126 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it OK to add them ? I guess its considered rude or something? < 1418865410 184062 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that tswett the notable australian < 1418865421 586190 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1418865428 280571 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Ihope127 actually soeone added it to the discussion page, that is nice < 1418865429 848955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: editing other people's user pages is not done < 1418865440 624558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1418865440 774541 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1418865444 967383 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im glad to know that < 1418865476 105975 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418865480 834386 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Onoz proof it looks like oerjan invents a brainfuck derivative! < 1418865491 528100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did? < 1418865527 273349 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably said something useful during a BF discussion < 1418865532 915096 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was enough to make a whole language out of it < 1418865536 777476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1418865540 624624 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moral: no one is safe! < 1418865547 509111 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418865549 189329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bricks will get us all. < 1418865707 929414 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just another brick in the wall? < 1418865728 64359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: the idea about brainhype in scheme-omega is that it's easy to write a brainfuck interpreter in scheme, and then scheme-n should be able to interpret all brainhype programs with < n nesting depth of halting checks < 1418865745 277834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then omega can do any finite depth < 1418865768 996961 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty mind blowing! < 1418865813 347493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did goedel ever make a bf derivative < 1418865843 609780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you _probably_ can implement scheme-n in brainhype with n+1 nesting depth. < 1418865848 762360 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_%CE%B2_function he has a kindof fractran like thing, except it only ecnodes a finite sequence < 1418865874 168029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something close to that. < 1418865952 172982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was euler's first esolang < 1418865959 336809 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goedel invented Lisp before Lisp, and computers, was invented. < 1418865967 568102 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but perhaps you were thinking of http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130121 < 1418865992 426381 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard Goedel was a lisp hacker from Chaitin page but i don't really agree with that < 1418866020 196727 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no LAMBDA for a start < 1418866090 998713 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think of what he did as peano arithmetic hacking < 1418866133 935449 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of what he did as, uh, formal logic? < 1418866259 285355 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He used Russell's Pricipia Mathematica as his framework. < 1418866270 525793 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1418866292 967722 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know he disproved some things Russell belived but are you talking about the same paper as I am? < 1418866327 142180 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1418866339 72278 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goedel numbers, and his imcompleteness theory? < 1418866388 843037 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well those are in the same paper < 1418866399 233376 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes < 1418866399 593419 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't he have been using peano arithmetic as his framework? i guess principia would've come in for the actual logic stuff < 1418866415 618156 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That what I meant by him inventing Lisp, developing a way for a language to talk about itself. < 1418866426 337141 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you mean :) < 1418866435 831704 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its such a cool thing < 1418866478 123630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Über formal unentscheidbare Sätze der Principia Mathematica und verwandter Systeme I < 1418866489 33618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the title of the paper hth < 1418866525 650036 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://skillsmatter.com/skillscasts/6088-the-worst-programming-language-ever how is APL a bad language? < 1418866538 142682 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he is just saying that because its a cool language to bring up < 1418866545 12622 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't type in the code. < 1418866626 145359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dijkstra hated APL < 1418866635 627513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely sure why but I guess I could make some guesses < 1418866643 539385 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418866656 600872 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard that name before. < 1418866687 526106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dijkstra? ...I'd hope so :) < 1418866724 266915 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a terrible memory. < 1418866749 505860 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortest path for graphs. < 1418866759 448198 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it true that Visual Basic is a joke language? < 1418866802 537733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did euclid invent ook! < 1418866805 168520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :disappointing imo < 1418866818 888197 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1418866883 775915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very good language < 1418866895 680541 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean zzo not euclid? < 1418866908 530249 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edsger W. Dijkstra is what I say instead of Jesus H. Christ < 1418866910 112284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure elliott is joking < 1418866922 127418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also zzo didn't invent ook! either < 1418866922 464146 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oren < 1418866922 693974 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because he couldn't imagine that parallel lines could intersect. < 1418866931 681915 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi i'm awake now < 1418866963 164103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: do you pronounce it correctly for extra penance? < 1418867006 258215 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1418867009 291180 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mixed then up beacuse of http://esoteric.codes/post/98149134838/on-tokens-vocabulary-aaaaaaaaaaaaaa-vs-ook < 1418867021 482204 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just noticed a new post on this blog < 1418867026 15395 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPDATE! < 1418867050 342872 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yah, the g is a kkh sound like in russian < 1418867099 293361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: i've listened to google translate's pronunciation < 1418867130 4002 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing happened, now I can sleep, dreaming of better spoons. < 1418867137 988452 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, check out the new page o n the wiki please :D < 1418867138 103069 :yonkie_!~yonkie@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1418867155 190015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: ook! was invented by this guy http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/ < 1418867167 305259 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1418867183 535392 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DMM made up for it by inventing Piet.) < 1418867185 37808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comic is in rerun these days, but there are others on the site < 1418867203 142107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the conglomerate of sites < 1418867331 933243 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cluid: oh, you made a list of the BF derivatives that aren't just token replacements < 1418867349 269503 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if oyu have any additions please! < 1418867407 831681 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://skillsmatter.com/skillscasts/6088-the-worst-programming-language-ever < 1418867413 516060 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy spent a whole hour explaining his esolang < 1418867424 76706 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably deserves a wiki page, should I create it? < 1418867613 955425 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :t-O-ok!-en replacement. < 1418867636 591182 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418867752 741637 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418868220 609568 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fniakzhjyloscnea JOIN :#esoteric < 1418868944 8141 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BS14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41501 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+1527) 10BS language < 1418868986 835479 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BS14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41502&oldid=41501 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+113) 10added link to the talk < 1418869056 910256 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Cluid Zhasulelm14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41503&oldid=41438 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+133) 10 < 1418869063 791800 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :17bit integers... < 1418869083 708684 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D < 1418869085 827829 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ver ysilly < 1418869104 381906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay regex cpp is a good gag < 1418869145 770257 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1418869479 555265 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418869620 234301 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BS14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41504&oldid=41502 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (-52) 10more interesting code example < 1418869662 723957 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418869669 400335 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418870201 224744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: the "Collatz Function" example on MNNBFSL, is that the 3n+1 sequence? < 1418870246 200886 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.198.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418870268 932494 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.198.212 NICK :Guest11508 < 1418870336 116261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: i'm editing the page, and i'm going to assume yes if you don't answer hth < 1418870385 890067 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1418870388 9315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there anything else it could reasonably mean twh < 1418870435 596931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://esolang.org/Collatz_function hth < 1418870466 560899 :Guest80998!~shikhin@120.59.105.155 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1418870474 106714 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1418870475 341139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ whois esolang.org < 1418870475 563533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT FOUND < 1418870485 333574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1418870486 646150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+s < 1418870506 775719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/Collatz_function is a 404 hth < 1418870510 835559 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418870513 920097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1418870516 758441 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perils of typing out urls < 1418870548 957109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway tdih < 1418870568 593501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1418870590 531188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Collatz_function hth < 1418870675 541600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that did indeed help < 1418870676 152798 :yonkie!~yonkie@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418870690 761885 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07List of ideas14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41505&oldid=41489 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+3) 10/* Derivative Ideas */ spe ling < 1418870727 478902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although perhaps one should find out what muti-threaded means instead < 1418870747 675190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is the integral of a bf derivative twh < 1418870760 813576 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, It's the 3x+1 /2 version < 1418870797 361636 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MNNBFSL14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41506&oldid=41491 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+27) 10/* Examples */ links, and "Collatz function" means something different in these parts < 1418870799 255254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1418870814 248912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: brainfuck plus a constant hth < 1418870851 842392 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx = that helped x-ray? < 1418870878 199155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-tremely, maybe < 1418870975 240333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps xmas < 1418871005 575522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf did wayback do to their calendar display < 1418871031 926561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i can still find the link to click < 1418871134 145144 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wxhatkozsntjebdo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1418871136 294433 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41507&oldid=41494 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+14) 10/* External resources */ wayback < 1418871422 504994 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck derivatives14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41508&oldid=41500 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10fix link < 1418871444 609490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418871695 409218 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1418872133 413393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418872140 607491 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418872265 181101 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1418872277 457276 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418872277 652371 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1418872277 695924 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418872304 448861 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1418872412 418206 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418872581 302241 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin is putting CRLFs in my code. Isthere a similar site that doesn't do that? < 1418873382 687633 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1418873544 708005 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1418874233 582925 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Changing host < 1418874233 626283 :roasted42!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418874233 626396 :roasted42!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 NICK :TheM4ch1n3 < 1418874537 561433 :TheM4ch1n3!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1418874618 773779 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418874786 292685 :Guest11508!~shikhin@59.177.198.212 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418874815 15091 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418874938 244955 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418874998 246853 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418875318 260487 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418875377 559322 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418875668 543370 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1418875754 1354 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418876038 922799 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418876129 911089 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418876412 963523 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418876518 920933 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418876854 31931 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418876962 5962 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418877070 544428 :azazel_!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnndsurzsdyrdyzh JOIN :#esoteric < 1418877083 591335 :azazel_!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnndsurzsdyrdyzh PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does *net. split* mean? < 1418877138 389456 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are multiple IRC servers in the freenode network, and they're connected to each other < 1418877167 216809 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :if those links go down, that's a netsplit < 1418877263 13146 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418877324 554976 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its jsut p-p tcp links which are statically configured.. so its not super robust < 1418877341 283834 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418877373 155700 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan, TIL about the Collatz function. thx. < 1418877483 985928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1418877556 111150 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :collatz is great for coming up with weird counterexamples < 1418877558 763514 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idhty < 1418877606 502301 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham, how do you mean? < 1418877641 857617 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418877667 189982 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if someone says they have a program to solve the halting problem... < 1418877684 417725 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask them to analyze function returning length of the collatz sequence < 1418877708 120033 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kinda stuff < 1418877720 152520 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418877734 241629 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Useful. < 1418877866 998577 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could Goldbach conjecture be used for that kind of test as well? < 1418877896 53159 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418877929 33617 :password2!~password@197.76.151.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418877946 322301 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mooost unsolved problems in number theory can I think < 1418877954 764006 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1418877960 530971 :password2!~password@197.76.151.0 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418878020 721553 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1418878030 305168 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1418878084 31982 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something I've been wondering about mathematical proofs. Godel showed that no one system can account be used to prove all provable math problems. < 1418878108 138322 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418878166 490326 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the turing church hypothesis says that what humans do, mathematicians, is no different that what a turing machine can do. < 1418878247 728739 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if a turing maching can solve all the solvable math problems, and a tm is a formal system... what of godel? < 1418878272 490042 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't prove that it will solve all solvable problems < 1418878275 11871 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1418878386 596398 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in infinite time? < 1418878437 377477 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, goes back to the halting problem, I guess. < 1418878450 521366 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe humans can only prove the important theorems? < 1418878494 146616 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then that be the turing church hypothesis false. < 1418878501 697753 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be* < 1418878582 634677 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmhydscingitaylt JOIN :#esoteric < 1418878826 732801 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1418878842 812256 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418878894 290190 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418879059 647507 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe, let alone the human brain, is not truring complete < 1418879064 970518 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe, let alone the human brain, is not turing complete < 1418879071 893155 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe, let alone the human brain, is not turing complete < 1418879129 9435 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically, are neural networks cappable of TCness? < 1418879155 419257 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1418879164 177422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only infinite ones hth < 1418879171 752726 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the universe might be turing complete due to unending expansion of space. < 1418879180 55731 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No upper bound to memory. < 1418879185 207207 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1418879190 975957 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about infinite in the time dimension? < 1418879191 461914 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe, let alone the human brain, is not turing complete < 1418879201 233030 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the universe might be turing complete due to unending expansion of space. < 1418879201 287211 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No upper bound to memory. < 1418879218 623117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we're in a closed time loop tdnh < 1418879230 214871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially oren < 1418879240 486020 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nietche or Godel? < 1418879247 606090 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: infinite only time dimension gives you PSPACE, nothing more < 1418879278 553916 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can store all the results? < 1418879286 583834 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't* < 1418879305 721614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't avoid repeating < 1418879320 804588 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Client Quit < 1418879322 836231 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1418879341 763791 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1418879505 978758 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. Though, if we describe the Univers as it's quantum superposition, including, somehow, it's past, then each superstate will be distinct. < 1418879521 163976 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing is that human brains don't, practically speaking, have infinite time. < 1418879528 753706 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1418879561 730221 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could change soon. < 1418879589 5847 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but what would make a brain enter a state such that is has already performed infinite operations? < 1418879599 361469 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, the human brain pattern could be copied to something more durable. < 1418879730 697203 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone recommend a better client than irssi? < 1418879780 518500 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing keeps doig weird crap where it posts the message but doesn't whow that it has < 1418879831 22070 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what it's called, but there's an esolang... nvm foundd it: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wigner%27s_Fuckbuddy_Is_A_Superposition_of_Top_And_Bottom < 1418879837 219814 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1418879837 263137 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1418879886 459775 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy with HexChat. Free, clean and simple. < 1418880071 227534 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: Goodnight < 1418880242 272386 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1418880329 142672 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418880634 7990 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 NICK :MDream < 1418881447 301947 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418881507 810320 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1418881773 52771 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1418881780 343076 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1418881973 632712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1418882552 796215 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1418882564 26619 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1418883150 362701 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418883251 856064 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418883335 859140 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this is really pessimistic: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/lunarchstudios/prismata-a-new-hybrid-game-of-pure-strategy/ < 1418883337 393682 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1418883351 81755 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh http://blog.kicktraq.com/why-you-should-take-kicktraq-trends-with-a-grain-of-salt/ < 1418883466 679417 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still I'm worried < 1418883675 61596 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are allowed to retry if they fail, right? < 1418884395 44566 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1418884400 423863 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418884423 7131 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418884608 920876 :azazel_!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnndsurzsdyrdyzh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsing lua is much confuse < 1418884617 830619 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418884801 676816 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1418884857 539255 :azazel_!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnndsurzsdyrdyzh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda wanna make an alternate to bf but where to start < 1418884927 642933 :azazel_!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnndsurzsdyrdyzh PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes mad
< 1418885084 678586 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418885090 709392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418885302 443404 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1418885405 173280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418885413 174870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418885757 616117 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418885785 123392 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1418886009 53360 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1418887762 89265 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.198.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418887766 314815 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.198.212 QUIT :Changing host < 1418887766 358213 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1418888395 508513 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418888402 264514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1418888621 103589 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1418889689 984006 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1418889908 453728 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :an alternate to bf inwhat way? < 1418889938 676466 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternative syntax? alternative paradigm? < 1418890516 864254 :heroux!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1418890532 166533 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1418891141 486027 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418891153 490768 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418891288 504656 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1418891304 499094 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418891341 771780 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1418891845 101593 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.57.225.181 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418891867 125648 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.57.225.181 NICK :Guest75497 < 1418892020 86070 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418892665 615753 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1418892882 278256 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1418892894 134460 :S1!~S1@p4FF9242F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1418893051 473713 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1418893273 99785 :azazel_!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnndsurzsdyrdyzh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1418893843 328166 :jslave!~jslave@koln-5d817ceb.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418893967 813745 :jslave!~jslave@koln-5d817ceb.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418893989 244444 :jslave!~jslave@koln-5d817ceb.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418894173 408239 :jslave!~jslave@koln-5d817ceb.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418894195 242749 :jslave!~jslave@koln-5d817ceb.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418894257 373895 :S1!~S1@p4FF9242F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1418895513 644047 :jslave!~jslave@koln-5d817ceb.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418895821 587638 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418895827 285817 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418896884 467707 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418896891 496189 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418896984 290462 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1418897076 235695 :Guest75497!~shikhin@120.57.225.181 NICK :shikhin < 1418897081 480423 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.57.225.181 QUIT :Changing host < 1418897081 524100 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1418897712 455631 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1418898776 566824 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be possible to describe the information content of a file in terms of "the shortest program that outputs the file"? < 1418898777 823065 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418898894 740368 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am considering an output-only language based on code golfing as a means of data compression < 1418898903 499002 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has there ever been a esolang/programming language that's coded by sketching/drawing? < 1418898958 316678 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't thing so. turtle graphics are the output for a lot of languages, but arbitrary lines as input is different < 1418899027 648430 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, okay. Thanks. < 1418899041 937823 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have an original idea for once. < 1418899043 938481 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1418899081 420487 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though, there might be good reasons why nobody made such a language yet.) < 1418899121 888789 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your output-only language would be an interpreter for golfed code in another language? < 1418899130 261342 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: There's a few box-diagram/flowchart languages, but nothing that freeform that I've seen, no. Most freeform is probably Mondrian maybe? < 1418899197 335521 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have in my head is quite different from those. < 1418899214 455757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be possible and has been done by kolmogorov and others hth < 1418899284 235496 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code would be interpreted from the lines you draw (their angle, length, relation to other lines). < 1418899294 123406 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads about Kolmogorov and is annoyed that so many people were born before he was
< 1418899360 227805 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many that are still alive though. < 1418899371 675547 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: that sounds very cool, especially if the interpreter is flexible enough to run scanned drawings. < 1418899379 108709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kolmogorov was p. great hth < 1418899453 625714 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the dude was born before my great-great grandmother was, now that is just cheating < 1418899465 626987 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that the drawing process itself helps determins the program. < 1418899488 31629 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan, like "stroke order" < 1418899489 743748 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1418899505 636636 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which lines were drawn first? < 1418899512 314800 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The naked source might be (x1,y1 x2,y2) < 1418899539 135591 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first line determins the number base to be used. < 1418899591 467682 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put it anywhere, but then cross it n times for n-1 base. < 1418899601 306098 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a cross would be binary. < 1418899676 780261 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Angles might be constrained though, maybe 24 < 1418899682 790914 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :degrees of freedom. < 1418899721 567569 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough to be versatile, but still easily determined by the code interpreter. < 1418899744 903802 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: 24 degrees of freedom probably doesn't mean what you think it means < 1418899760 160585 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) most likely. < 1418899799 768369 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your arm has 5 degrees of freedomfor example. < 1418899814 286836 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joints? < 1418899835 688068 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Determine the degree I mean> < 1418899838 949410 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1418899839 845363 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the number of pure rotations available < 1418899859 259679 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :along different axes < 1418899881 490539 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yeah, I meant how lines can intersect a fixed access. Thanks. < 1418899891 546691 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Axis* < 1418899905 801187 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see. < 1418899957 153131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many degrees of freedom does this person's arm have: http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/thumbnail_photos/2011/April/Pot.jpg < 1418899997 900431 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One? < 1418900082 641358 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minus one? < 1418900085 351708 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#drugz < 1418901547 929150 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people call espresso expresso? < 1418901703 180053 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: because they are idiots? < 1418901745 757409 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418901767 155659 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :konboilywa < 1418901855 719483 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: maybe they think it is related to "expression"? < 1418901873 944334 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "express" < 1418901908 37401 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is, but only through Italian. I know better because i live in Little Italy. < 1418901982 532115 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: programming language where all keywords, library functions,etc are distant cognates of the standard ones < 1418902163 766781 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :per(;;)press("hello again"); < 1418902254 82818 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a programming language based on a alternate universe's version of English < 1418902265 826192 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418902271 292673 :ais523!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418902278 595492 :ais523!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1418902278 638805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418902294 473053 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quit join quit join < 1418902424 967855 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1418902747 531825 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ohayoren! < 1418902770 805881 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask quintopia Y YOU NO STAY IN THE CHANNEL HTH < 1418902770 849127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1418902803 835930 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell quintopia once again, we are abhorrently missynchronized... < 1418902803 949273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1418902850 777353 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you pronounce abhorrently? < 1418902885 4324 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the BH like a V or just like a B? < 1418902969 840534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: does "HTH" stand for "HOPE THAT HELPS"? < 1418903004 430068 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418903058 630834 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :all caps fractur text is much harder to read than lowercase. < 1418903086 724342 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, fun fractur. < 1418903087 58991 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: does chicken have anything like " quasisyntax"? i don't think much about it :) < 1418903162 127128 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hth < 1418903169 238052 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1418903171 122099 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. < 1418903173 83916 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1418903178 539151 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there you go htah < 1418903178 859523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1418903180 91671 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'? does it help? < 1418903192 751974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that sentence doesn't make sense < 1418903216 452864 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“there you go, hope that also helps” < 1418903260 450592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: the one you asked quintopia < 1418903333 435738 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense? < 1418903433 855129 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, it may be a creative application of a meme and another meme together...) < 1418903452 595093 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y U NO HTH? < 1418903497 252246 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i command you to hope, dammit, hope! < 1418903532 448090 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope is a woe, that's why it was in Pandora's box. < 1418903561 525639 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something something believe in the one who believes in the hope something... < 1418903579 712262 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fniakzhjyloscnea QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1418903588 278916 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: you don't need hope if you have no woes < 1418903639 344224 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hope is a meta woe. < 1418903716 342792 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1418903739 625618 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: omae wo shinjiru ore wo shinjiru! < 1418903798 979703 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418903801 455880 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1418904006 301229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418904207 629653 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that C comments aren't nestable < 1418904455 403219 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1418904475 845380 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: use //. < 1418904517 805729 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i am trying to temporarily comment something out, but i used /**/ comments in it < 1418904548 530803 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what am i thinking here! #if 0 #endif < 1418904558 747058 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is nestable too. < 1418904613 210012 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1418904648 533777 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION oils his mapole and do a few practice swings *swoosh* *swoosh*
< 1418904662 614965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust486.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418904677 970358 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust486.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1418904678 13636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1418904683 608813 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: you should go with the simplest, instead of cumbersomes #ifs. < 1418904709 789239 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is simpler? < 1418904744 327665 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/. < 1418904749 618313 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric ://, says I. < 1418904768 458429 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is'nt a block comment < 1418904823 216198 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it isn't. < 1418904858 376484 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have to add it to the start of all the lines? < 1418904867 426901 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a pain < 1418904882 104998 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of curiosity, what are you coding with? < 1418904893 601263 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcedit < 1418904946 942344 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn. I can't help you with emacs-y shortcuts. < 1418904998 610136 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be some weird key combo you could use to automatify that. perhaps. < 1418905027 527985 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1418905064 381884 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Comment-Commands.html ← maybe C-c C-c? < 1418905117 746558 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there I am completely wrong. mcedit is midnight commander's editor. not an emacs variant. < 1418905159 696595 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should use something probably a little bit more powerful if you need to apply something to multiple lines at the same time... < 1418905187 623822 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it can run arbitrary shell scripts on your selection < 1418905196 667619 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you add them to your user menu < 1418905243 260747 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem is MC is highly underdocumented < 1418905296 957646 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. if it san run shell scripts... < 1418905318 298866 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed -i 's,^,//,' < 1418905429 980720 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: EXCHECKER CHICKEN < 1418906085 353662 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1418906190 404568 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1418906346 452749 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1418906439 428561 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1418906858 832965 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418906994 632001 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418907161 278447 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418907175 387436 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418907275 390120 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418907542 325652 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418908043 485118 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray. Heresy has basic file I/O now. < 1418908233 348997 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418908248 586265 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418908327 13530 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: looks good. vast majority of programs don't read or write more than one file at once. < 1418908368 362048 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is definitely more than adequate < 1418908435 491843 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. In the future I might add some basic feature matching to Racket's (in-lines ...) and the like too, because they're bloody handy, but it'll do for a basic toy Lisp and it's enough to get my game idea down ... < 1418908478 804280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you written a self-interpreter yet < 1418908508 508580 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet. Though I think there's enough now for it to be possible. < 1418908532 93104 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even wrote a very nice string splitting function explicitly to make parsers easier to write ... :D < 1418908565 213793 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is way easier in languages that can jump into data space or have an eval command < 1418908576 372818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't count as a self-interpreter < 1418908582 413043 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1418908586 917565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: well you could just piggy-back on read < 1418908621 120030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: because it's boring. you can make more fine-grained distinctions to try and give more exact criteria with which to rule it out but it's easier to just ignore people who pass off eval as a self-interpreter. the point is to *write* eval. < 1418908631 320040 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, that is also true. After all, that's what most Lisps do anyway. XD < 1418908668 367448 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok, yeah it is totally boring. < 1418908730 784750 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it also prevents it from being (easily) compilable < 1418908771 7467 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so having an eval() is a dubious design chice < 1418908778 353129 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/chice/choice < 1418908973 906498 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goal was to implement enough of the language to write a text-mode RPG like I wrote on the old Tandy CoCo3 as a kid. Only in a functional Lisp. :D < 1418909209 216293 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: after that, put in QBASIC VGA-like graphics! < 1418909257 115116 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: actually ,that's one of the possibilities on the future dev list. < 1418909271 801626 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running the whole thing in a fake retro graphics window. < 1418909306 344371 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great. I have actually recently started trying graphics hacks in DOS on my scrap PC. < 1418909326 331725 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/DOS/QBASIC.EXE < 1418909495 80150 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrap PCs are a excellent resource to keep around. you never know when an old PC will come in handy. < 1418909772 258334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :having eval is fine < 1418909794 976028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can interfere with static compilation models but it is totally fine for JITs and the like < 1418909813 311022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most common lisps are compiler-based and still have eval, for instance < 1418909992 962354 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most common lisps" < 1418910002 907250 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the point of common lisp was to be, like, common < 1418910041 701683 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantic ambiguity Firefly. < 1418910231 212511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant most (common lisps) < 1418910233 205936 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see, so a language can have eval if it doesn't plan on being turned into an exe. < 1418910237 472070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(common lisp)s < 1418910240 830479 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418910245 449089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: that's still fine, as long as it links to the compiler at runtime < 1418910247 852660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether statically or dynamically < 1418910249 602060 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418910259 217826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the compiler can compile stuff in-memory < 1418910281 916002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance with a lot of lisps their model is that the implementation starts up, you compile new functions into it, and then you can dump all its compiled state as an executable < 1418910288 833629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you could then reload and add more into and then dump that image, etc. < 1418910313 481208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which fits the lisp model of building a program from nothing using the REPL and loading files into it, etc. < 1418910330 861102 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is exactly what i want for python < 1418910335 729143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this is an elegant model for things like lisp machines < 1418910349 380085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where your live lisp environment is all that exists < 1418910380 412418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bonus is that with some implementations you can strip things so that anything you don't call isn't included in the resulting image < 1418910392 179498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if your program never calls eval it won't bundle the entire compiler in the resulting image < 1418910398 1696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*into < 1418910475 863115 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is a giant paradox wrapped in an enigma. it is the Nikola Tesla of programming languages. < 1418910490 106490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, uh, that sure is a comparison < 1418910508 32948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is the anarcho-syndicalism of potatoes < 1418910577 242183 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was massively ahead of its time, was greatly underappreciated by the masses < 1418910588 280506 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like Tesla < 1418910712 533748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp was actually fairly appreciated way back when I think < 1418910714 325472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-AI Winter anyway < 1418910739 616221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe longer than that < 1418910778 696394 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really? what about the hordes of Fortraners? did they appreciate it? < 1418910781 283550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anwyay I hear edison once killed a bear just by staring at it thru the earth's surface and then he framed tesla for it and tesla had to work in the mines for ten thousand years while edison made five billion dollars off the delicious coal tesla mined < 1418910785 282437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyway < 1418910805 734558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: er, you're asking me if people had disagreements about what languages were good back then? yes, of course they did :p < 1418910963 474134 :cluid!~cluid@host-2-98-84-78.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418910964 632061 :cluid!~cluid@host-2-98-84-78.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1418910969 931610 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1418910974 708310 :cluid!~cluid@host-2-98-84-78.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Narcissist < 1418910978 172237 :cluid!~cluid@host-2-98-84-78.as13285.net QUIT :Changing host < 1418910978 215629 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid JOIN :#esoteric < 1418910980 93346 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck narcissist by User:Keymaker < 1418910980 205094 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subleq OISC Narcissus by User: r.e.s. < 1418910983 459698 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both these are missing < 1418910986 861956 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they aren't on archive.org < 1418911044 955346 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Narcissist14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41509&oldid=33552 5* 03Ehird 5* (+60) 10/* External resources */ update narc.b link < 1418911083 748345 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great! < 1418911088 116888 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can narc.b be added to https://github.com/graue/esofiles/tree/master/brainfuck/src < 1418911131 301782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ping graue, probably < 1418911136 180919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess it'd need keymaker's permission < 1418911146 433867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :narcissists are contravariant quines < 1418911224 27040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: that story is impossible. tesla and edison lived back before the industrial revolution, when coal mines didn't yet exist. < 1418911239 587472 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1418911247 552595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: damn. you got me. I'm a fraud. I... I never thought this would happen < 1418911272 729028 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_derivatives some of the links here are not correct < 1418911282 524597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: also, no human has ever lived for ten thousand years < 1418911286 613597 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FuckBrainfuck and Fuck) < 1418911288 124810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :debunked < 1418911302 123478 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_extensions this page is very useful good too < 1418911328 805824 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck derivatives14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41510&oldid=41508 5* 03Ehird 5* (-297) 10rm fuckbrainfuck -- another language with the same name exists and it's more of an implementation choice than anything < 1418911341 979448 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you! < 1418911386 833704 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, except maybe Lazarus Long < 1418911619 841829 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1418911661 796898 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1418911664 392050 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1418911664 435335 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1418911685 250859 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the golf site < 1418911689 990653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :golf.shinh.org < 1418912141 417756 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#anagol is its Freenode chatroom. < 1418912832 862219 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lisp is the anarcho-syndicalism of potatoes" XD < 1418912867 763420 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418912904 652982 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.92.123 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418913193 994332 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418913438 691955 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.59.106.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418913460 518555 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.59.106.71 NICK :Guest97570 < 1418913470 882350 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418913533 742977 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8766357 < 1418913554 657848 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418913572 596687 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane, http://esolangs.org/wiki/BS < 1418913660 854370 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418913832 959733 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bvfrajilaxwhgxkd JOIN :#esoteric < 1418913976 27198 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried anagol but I got the same length as the other peoeple < 1418914338 969258 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq q1J{Pp|[1pP2CO)++p^1]|J}15E!vv#< < 1418914339 221122 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1} < 1418914339 264396 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 1} < 1418914339 264548 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 2 1} < 1418914345 197155 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq q1J{Pp|[1pP2CO)++p^1]|J}15E!vv < 1418914345 470871 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 15 105 455 1365 3003 5005 6435 6435 5005 3003 1365 455 105 15 1} < 1418914345 514297 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 14 91 364 1001 2002 3003 3432 3003 2002 1001 364 91 14 1} < 1418914345 514428 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 13 78 286 715 1287 1716 1716 1287 715 286 78 13 1} < 1418914369 169536 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pascal's triangle! < 1418914375 720550 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1418914380 832867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: that's still pretty good < 1418914388 943749 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the second one upside down? < 1418914401 456154 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I dropped the #< < 1418914417 540956 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to win one but I gotta choose the best language < 1418914420 815947 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq q1J{Pp|[1pP2CO)++p^1]|J}15E!vv#s < 1418914420 931357 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{1 15 105 455 1365 3003 5005 6435 6435 5005 3003 1365 455 105 15 1} {1 14 91 364 1001 2002 3003 3432 3003 2002 1001 364 91 14 1} {1 13 78 286 715 1287 1716 1716 1287 715 286 78 13 1} {1 12 66 220 495 792 924 792 495 220 66 12 1} {1 11 55 165 330 462 462 3 < 1418914423 5249 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfscrippt seems like cheating...... < 1418914430 174630 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq q1J{Pp|[1pP2CO)++p^1]|J}5E!vv#s < 1418914430 287170 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{1 5 10 10 5 1} {1 4 6 4 1} {1 3 3 1} {1 2 1} {1 1} {1}} < 1418914430 366156 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 5 10 10 5 1} < 1418914430 409423 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 4 6 4 1} < 1418914433 423326 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use anagol problem #31 script < 1418914441 172134 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, mroman. I wanted to say that I came accross you javascript Beam interpreted, and I've using it's code as a reference to help me develop an the same kind of thing for MNNBFSL. < 1418914447 896367 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's okay. < 1418914450 596019 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1418914458 616822 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1418914463 515414 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_AndoDaan_, what's your thoughts on MNNBFSL? < 1418914469 23422 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hwo is your interpreter coming < 1418914478 704224 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Golfscript is cheating < 1418914480 945664 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then try Burlesque < 1418914490 44945 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I'm obsessed with MNNBFSL < 1418914490 218034 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1Jq.+15C! < 1418914490 334789 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 1597 < 1418914490 472956 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 987 < 1418914490 516210 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 610 < 1418914497 510268 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like MNNBFSL < 1418914498 181398 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1Jq.+10C!#s < 1418914498 406031 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {144 89 55 34 21 13 8 5 3 2 1 1} < 1418914498 449620 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 144 < 1418914498 449793 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 89 < 1418914507 500992 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1Jq.+10!C#sit < 1418914507 726327 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144} < 1418914509 744580 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you written any programs in it? < 1418914526 81731 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1Jq.-10!C#sit < 1418914526 300339 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 1 0 1 -1 2 -3 5 -8 13 -21 34} < 1418914547 309951 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1Jq.*10!C#sit < 1418914547 421154 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1} < 1418914549 771943 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1418914554 498175 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1 2q.*10!C#sit < 1418914554 721819 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 2 2 4 8 32 256 8192 2097152 17179869184 36028797018963968 618970019642690137449562112} < 1418914576 52277 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10roq.+pa < 1418914576 275945 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{1} ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! {1 2} ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! {1 2 3} ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! {1 2 3 4} ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! {1 2 3 4 5} ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! {1 2 < 1418914580 760805 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1418914584 465923 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10roq++pa < 1418914584 681007 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45 55} < 1418914586 921476 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. there we go < 1418914591 480752 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_AndoDaan_ < 1418914591 524051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1418914593 835008 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Some basic string construction stuff. But my first real bit of coding has been a program that gives Collatz sequence for a given number. < 1418914600 164273 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool! I saw that < 1418914611 85934 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10roq++paq++pa < 1418914611 323475 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 4 10 20 35 56 84 120 165 220} < 1418914615 568659 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10roq++paq++paq++pa < 1418914615 681257 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 5 15 35 70 126 210 330 495 715} < 1418914623 111112 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10roq++paq++paq++paq++pa < 1418914623 308137 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 6 21 56 126 252 462 792 1287 2002} < 1418914640 294573 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed some _________ in it, funny < 1418914642 989758 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make the jumps < 1418914643 884176 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on my own template/method for implemeting labels/maybe functions in it. < 1418914665 744114 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[10 9nr]| < 1418914665 858804 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {10} < 1418914673 652790 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a way to make labbels and get label addresses pushed to the stack already < 1418914691 834038 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way ']' is/was really hard for me to get to grips with. < 1418914699 857504 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works* < 1418914712 875455 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a interesting language! Its more different than brainfuck than I thought when i first saw it < 1418914732 450658 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely. < 1418914742 833988 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took me too long to fully realize that. < 1418914773 554462 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 NICK :AndoDaan < 1418914827 446539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418914855 289933 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if |[ ]| will be useful in golfing < 1418914875 948960 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 1.+} < 1418914876 172268 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {1 1 .+} < 1418914876 961254 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1418914883 263666 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[1 1.+|] < 1418914883 488325 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | ERROR: Unknown command: (|])! < 1418914883 531589 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 2 < 1418914883 531728 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | |[ < 1418914887 968307 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[1 1.+]| < 1418914888 81145 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {2} < 1418914892 872951 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 9so{go} < 1418914892 986525 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {go} < 1418914893 96575 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 1 < 1418914906 469788 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 9s0{g0} < 1418914906 693709 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {BlsqGet "0"} < 1418914916 562718 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 9s0|[g0]| < 1418914916 757914 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {9} < 1418914935 883163 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immediatly evals a code block? < 1418914980 485371 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[2 3.*]| < 1418914980 568571 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {6} < 1418914995 821705 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {2 3.*}e! < 1418914995 951455 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 6 < 1418915017 841867 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and keeps the result in the block.d < 1418915146 886570 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro J{FC}m[]| < 1418915146 996755 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20} {ERROR: Unknown command: (FC)! 1 ERROR: Unknown command: (FC)! 2 ERROR: Unknown command: (FC)! 3 ERROR: Unknown command: (FC)! 4 ERROR: Unknown command: (FC)! 5 ERROR: Unknown command: (FC)! 6 ERROR: Un < 1418915169 109656 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro J{fc}m[]| < 1418915169 355869 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20} {{1} {1 2} {1 3} {1 2 4} {1 5} {1 2 3 6} {1 7} {1 2 4 8} {1 3 9} {1 2 5 10} {1 11} {1 2 3 4 6 12} {1 13} {1 2 7 14} {1 3 5 15} {1 2 4 8 16} {1 17} {1 2 3 6 9 18} {1 19} {1 2 4 5 10 20}}} < 1418915177 738789 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro J{fc}m[:f:]| < 1418915177 851848 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20} {{1} {1 2} {1 3} {1 2 4} {1 5} {1 2 3 6} {1 7} {1 2 4 8} {1 3 9} {1 2 5 10} {1 11} {1 2 3 4 6 12} {1 13} {1 2 7 14} {1 3 5 15} {1 2 4 8 16} {1 17} {1 2 3 6 9 18} {1 19} {1 2 4 5 10 20}}} < 1418915195 980124 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro J{fcL[}m[]| < 1418915196 132699 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20} {1 2 2 3 2 4 2 4 3 4 2 6 2 4 4 5 2 6 2 6}} < 1418915233 41848 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro J{fcL[2.-nz}m[]| < 1418915233 154132 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20} {1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 1}} < 1418915308 636622 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro{JfcL[2==}m[)f:]| < 1418915308 859394 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{ERROR: Burlesque: (<-) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (><) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (m[) Invalid arguments! {^^ L[ \/ -] bx \/ +]} ERROR: Burlesque: (=[) Invalid arguments! 0 ERROR: Burlesque: (<-) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: ( < 1418915319 584435 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro{JfcL[2==}m[)F:]| < 1418915319 697112 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{ERROR: Burlesque: (z[) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (++) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (./) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (m[) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (m[) Invalid arguments! {pd} ERROR: Burlesque: (m[) Invalid argument < 1418915339 417066 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro{JfcL[2==}m[)fi]| < 1418915339 528828 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 0 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 2 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arg < 1418915346 564656 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq |[20ro{JfcL[2==}m[)Fi]| < 1418915346 671446 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {{ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 0 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 2 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! 1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arg < 1418915353 175949 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible memory. < 1418915362 150266 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry spamming. < 1418916152 114595 :nyuszika7h!nyuszika7h@cadoth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if there's a way to convert a single-character string to a number in dc? < 1418916191 265621 :yonkie!~yonkie@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1418916282 800684 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :does dc allow to subtract '0' from it? < 1418916564 890164 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! just use x! < 1418916583 278309 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[5]x3-p --> 2 < 1418916598 418583 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1418916870 40279 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1418917115 586024 :atslash!~atslash@37.204.60.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418917163 703604 :scounder!~scounder@2a01:7a0:10:151:236:17:48:1 QUIT :Changing host < 1418917163 746915 :scounder!~scounder@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1418917207 669738 :Guest97570!~shikhin@120.59.106.71 NICK :shikhin < 1418917212 686758 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.106.71 QUIT :Changing host < 1418917212 730236 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1418917329 597607 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1418917398 290882 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://marcrogers.org/2014/12/18/why-the-sony-hack-is-unlikely-to-be-the-work-of-north-korea/ < 1418917541 112453 :atslash!~atslash@37.204.60.37 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1418918424 919770 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Scrip714]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41511&oldid=41487 5* 03Orenwatson 5* (-286) 10upadted links < 1418918491 844685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously it's like a parody of north korea < 1418918529 831427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :media goes OMG WHAT IF IT'S NKOREA -> pastebin post with awkward english going all ~terroristy~ on the film release, thanks for the great "lulz" idea guys < 1418918563 172800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://marcrogers.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/gop-image.jpg ok but the skeleton < 1418918660 867470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I like imagining that the republican party hacked sony < 1418918667 200636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacked by gop < 1418918878 790827 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was probably /r/pyongyang < 1418919618 7979 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Monad_tutorials_timeline < 1418919744 750356 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418919747 504095 :MDream!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418919895 16393 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-239.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1418919895 59632 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-239.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1418919895 59743 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1418919908 26858 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Scrip714]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41512&oldid=41511 5* 03Orenwatson 5* (+27) 10why did no one tell me about gists on github. this is much better than stupid pastebin < 1418920177 499406 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah hah. < 1418920224 107058 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the deal with '#if 0' preprocessor clauses? < 1418920954 257368 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps to make a file both a valid .c and a valid shell script at once < 1418920964 972209 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shell script part doesn't tokenize < 1418920987 56059 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i added "true /*" at beginning and "true */" at end < 1418921055 604450 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: and the #if 0 makes sure the shell script isn't in the final c code. < 1418921338 459821 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, so long as true; is a valid C statement (enabled by macros) then it isn't necessary < 1418921388 522798 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, so long as true; is a valid C statement (enabled by macros) then it isn't necessary < 1418921562 337208 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that works: #define true true /* will allow separate C and shell parts. < 1418921589 864504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define true true is UB though :P < 1418921592 925423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it < 1418921593 935957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget < 1418921595 280274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay no true isn't < 1418921602 384258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define _Bool might be? < 1418921607 927815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's not a keyword. < 1418921623 527982 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think true is a keyword in c++ tho < 1418921652 75579 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it is < 1418921656 109701 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define true < 1418921658 508923 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :true /* < 1418921659 776952 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it depends: < 1418921669 557659 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in C, true is a macro defined by #include < 1418921674 593355 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could define it yourself; < 1418921681 905367 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in C++, true is a keyword you must not define < 1418921684 581955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: #define _ /* < 1418921686 818876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1418921687 866400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/ < 1418921689 581733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that doesn't work < 1418921704 173934 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in C, you could define true correctly; you're not allowed to define it incorrectly, because then other macros or headers could break < 1418921705 671104 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA24C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1418921734 571370 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a header uses true then it will redefine it < 1418921760 654871 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: not if a previous header already included stdbool.h so the header guard is defined already < 1418921782 551219 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, it's certainly a Bad Idea to define true yourself < 1418921783 283364 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but for this it is the first line in the file < 1418921792 942325 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and kind of has to be) < 1418921823 158152 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can always redefine it to 1 afterward < 1418921883 76765 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: no, 1 is the wrong definition, it has to be something like ((bool)1) < 1418921981 994420 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, um, make that ((_Bool)1) as you don't have bool defined < 1418922063 715806 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA24C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1418922675 533992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: are you really not allowed to do #define true 123 < 1418922687 534861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, by the standard < 1418922693 434741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care whether things break, I care about language lawyering :P < 1418922712 961877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't the whole point you have to include because people already used "true" for their own purposes < 1418922766 455122 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#undef true; #define true 123 < 1418922773 595736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think you're allowed to, but I'm not quite sure. ask on ##c if you want to know. < 1418922787 29996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no way am I ever going to join ##c < 1418922791 374096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like the worst channel on freenode < 1418922800 384963 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try #python some day < 1418922802 645292 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whatever, I just don't know, sorry < 1418922803 137351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have < 1418922806 5815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :##c is worse :p < 1418922812 314505 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, ##c is better (slightly) < 1418922817 652508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless #python took a major nosedive within the past couple of years < 1418922822 940619 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want to join it, sure, but I don't think it's the _worst_ channel < 1418922835 208789 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we have tens of thousands of channels (how many really?) < 1418922885 178477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them are basically empty though < 1418922936 810472 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Cluid Zhasulelm14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41513&oldid=41503 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+26) 10Updating my userpage < 1418923318 377562 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07K-on Fuck14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41514&oldid=41355 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+2307) 10Added example and BF equivalence note < 1418923335 189406 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmhydscingitaylt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1418923905 118611 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-30-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1418923923 801673 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1418923944 699584 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-30-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1418923944 743223 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1418924924 75613 :atslash!~atslash@37.204.60.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418925154 896178 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.200 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418925444 434016 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418926008 428062 :atslash!~atslash@37.204.60.37 QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1418926522 238757 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1418926681 926759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: C11 7.1.3p1 subpoint 3 and p3 hth < 1418926704 91916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to look that up < 1418926742 830937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Each macro name in any [description of a header in the standard] is reserved for use as specified if any of its associated headers is included --" "If the program removes (with #undef) any macro definition of an identifier in the first group listed above, the behavior is undefined." < 1418926763 809976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but if you don't include ? < 1418926774 2028 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm relatively sure you can still #define true, and even include other standard headers. < 1418926873 51771 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also "#define while" etc., albeit in very limited scenarios: "The program shall not have any macros with names lexically identical to keywords currently defined prior to the inclusion of the header or when any macro defined in the header is expanded." (C11 7.1.2p4) < 1418926873 134298 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, but a few macro names like I get special exemptions, is true one of those? < 1418926908 169570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Yes. < 1418926929 991998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notwithstanding the provisions of 7.1.3, a program may undefine and perhaps then redefined the macros bool, true, and false." < 1418926935 402870 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're one of those. < 1418926949 847967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a mess < 1418927000 440340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the "future library directions" section mentions that "the ability to undefine and perhaps then redefine the macros bool, true, and false is an obsolescent feature". < 1418927015 69019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't see any restrictions about only being allowed to redefine them "correctly". < 1418927723 692010 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418927940 866349 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1418928627 425774 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1418929727 328031 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.84.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418929733 7213 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.155 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418930085 636998 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418930307 947626 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid JOIN :#esoteric < 1418930309 2214 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1418930327 551940 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this correct for NAND in C ~(x & y) ? < 1418930333 338009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1418930387 157624 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffd5 0000002a 0000002a < 1418930387 268573 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 0 0 < 1418930392 532575 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant understand why im getting this result here < 1418930398 770047 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x y then nand < 1418930403 516343 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I printed &1 of each, to see < 1418930407 214803 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its not correct < 1418930430 999754 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to write (max ...) for Heresy. This Collatz problem would be a lot easier that way ... < 1418930552 341930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: There must be something screwy with your test case or something. < 1418930553 634880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:21:03] ,cc unsigned x = 0xffffffd5, y = 0x0000002a, nand = ~(x & y); printf("%x %x %x, %u %u %u", x, y, nand, x&1, y&1, nand&1); < 1418930556 829512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:21:05] fizzie: ffffffd5 2a ffffffff, 1 0 1 < 1418930622 100702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here I was trying to write that in haskell < 1418930639 338250 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lpaste.net/116803 < 1418930642 274941 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showHex (complement (0xffffffd5 .&. 0x0000002a) :: Word32)"" < 1418930642 318454 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ffffffff" < 1418930643 801752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ffffffff" < 1418930644 893403 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go, elliott < 1418930651 574032 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is very confusing :( < 1418930664 164267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :glguy: I was trying to implement it zipping nand over the actual bits < 1418930668 426898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think I can use the lens "bits" to do it < 1418930677 207874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't zip traversals < 1418930703 229594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: what's u? < 1418930706 813524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Showing the type of u->r might be relevant. < 1418930716 504781 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated the post < 1418930731 715531 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u is um* < 1418930746 871317 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :You kind of can if you cheat and turn them into lists, zip and then back using "partsOf" < 1418930748 481793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also to make sure a != b, b != c, a != c. < 1418930749 820129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, and you're sure a =/= b =/= c, right? :p < 1418930788 377022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :glguy: yeah but partsOf is sin. I think it should be possible to do a safe zipWith... it would put the elements back into the first traversal and truncate the second < 1418930805 875762 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanky ou! < 1418930824 429982 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, you abandoned us, put away the lens :-p < 1418930835 78508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the xor swap trick also doesn't work on x[a] and x[b] if a == b :) < 1418930849 875986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :glguy: I'm just on very extended holiday :( < 1418930893 877527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a perpetual right to use lens thanks to my role in implementing the representation it uses for like half the library now :p
< 1418931018 516020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit though, I've written not much Haskell in the past >2 years < 1418931331 527479 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the thing in C that gives you memory set to 0? < 1418931344 229981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calloc < 1418931352 690420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also helps you avoid size overflows when allocating arrays, yay < 1418931366 886916 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was that but I read the man page and it doesnt say that < 1418931371 904256 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must have missed it < 1418931381 717649 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah its right there < 1418931383 553579 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1418931454 669137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also use mmap to do it < 1418931462 198568 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1418931465 974192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not as portable < 1418931529 127277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we concluded years ago that it's not okay to use calloc to allocate an array of pointers initialised to NULLs, right? < 1418931543 724721 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1418931545 994460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since calloc has to be type-generic, and null pointers might not be all-bits-zero < 1418931551 986204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so messed up :p < 1418931554 190342 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a controversial opinion at all. < 1418931561 542801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also can't use memset to get null pointers. < 1418931575 510031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it's one of the more obvious bits of language-lawyering. < 1418931589 869311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because it's char-based? < 1418931612 696116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the same all-bits-zero reason. I mean, there's not much difference between calloc and malloc + memset 0. < 1418931622 447821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also applies to floats, incidentally. < 1418931627 388707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, memset_intptr(p, (intptr_t) NULL, n) would be fine, right? < 1418931673 662671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so -- there's no defined mapping between the values (and representations) of intptr_t and pointers. < 1418931716 721312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway the null pointers of pretty much any pointer type could all be different. < 1418931726 524763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, the bits of their representations.) < 1418931824 805396 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the same "calloc does not yield the same as assignment with 0" thing also applies to floats (unless __STDC_IEC_559__ is defined, in which case it's safe). < 1418931846 954122 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1418931932 367984 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not 100% sure of that last bit. __STDC_IEC_559__ means that the 'float' and 'double' types "match" the IEC 60559 single and double types, but maybe that doesn't extend to the bit-level representation, just the observable behavior w.r.t. radix and exponent ranges and operations and such. < 1418931934 482644 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1418931971 465065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I need the bit level representation though < 1418931995 407746 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please give me hints to get an inappropriate key, I cannot move the red stuff out the way of the red button < 1418932038 97735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe using preprocessor conditions a function can be made up to convert it to/from the IEEE representation < 1418932053 64037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :After a quick look at appendix F, it seems likely it doesn't constrain the representation. I mean, the endianness is certainly free, so why not some sort of "bits are stored as their complement" representation would be too. < 1418932103 82168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Are you talking about Super ASCII MZX Town? If so, I can give you a hint about the red stuff < 1418932108 355257 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes please < 1418932123 698635 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The red stuff around the button are breakable walls. < 1418932151 942466 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to push a bomb into this screen from the above one but couldn't < 1418932167 148380 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot push things between screens in MegaZeux. < 1418932216 681832 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can I break the red walls < 1418932249 819615 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know where the purple keycard is? < 1418932264 192455 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont think so < 1418932265 214068 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1418932314 985569 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a note somewhere else in the game which you may have not read yet which says so; you should have gone there first. Well, I can tell you anyways; it is behind a tree. < 1418932346 736753 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1418932371 471466 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the purple keycard in the room next to the keycard teleporter? < 1418932372 625101 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1418932380 328199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1418932442 425262 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1418932444 33755 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it past 'this way to the castle?' < 1418932671 891759 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant find a fake tree < 1418932771 568446 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is on the screen where they sell inappropriate keys < 1418932798 697922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You do not need the keycard to solve this puzzle, but it is important to know where it is, in order to solve this puzzle.) < 1418932811 309105 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I found it! < 1418932822 707836 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I chcked there before, but I didn't see it < 1418932917 980662 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think what I gain from this space < 1418932931 638446 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can control the slime without moving through the one way doors but what can I do with that < 1418932968 841810 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1418932999 629315 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the slime can push ammo < 1418933032 755069 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is correct. Ammo is indirectly pushable. So are some other objects. < 1418933053 664874 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't just one-way doors. Look in the help file (push F1) under "mirth of built-ins"; under that menu look under "transport". < 1418933081 932223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the help file contains many lies; I didn't write it. However, much of it is valid at least partially. < 1418933086 80215 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1418933105 710541 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The part about the destination of transports happens to be correct. < 1418933157 964768 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Look at the potion and ring effects too.) < 1418933220 387530 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Certain other things can destroy them as well" Which things? I am very stuck in this game < 1418933276 504813 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you refering to? < 1418933284 653256 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting an inappropraite key < 1418933296 831102 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1418933320 64359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean what are you refering to that certain other things can destroy? < 1418933332 116292 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says that in the mirth of built-ins section < 1418933339 907596 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding the red breakable wall < 1418933345 412703 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I want to destroy < 1418933363 871080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explosions and bullets. Robots can also change anything, but that isn't relevant here. < 1418933413 642409 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418933423 792852 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are brown, also fire. < 1418933426 249520 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i cant use a bob or shoot < 1418933432 313089 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thre is fire. i cant move fire though < 1418933436 572540 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know < 1418933442 36431 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not brown though < 1418933456 718163 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is lava not fire, but correct you cannot move it and it won't help due to not brown. < 1418933513 537001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read the part about transport destinations? That is important to solving this screen. < 1418933602 79420 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i mreading it now thanks! < 1418933625 624680 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i mreading it now thanks! < 1418933736 500150 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1418933795 723318 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1418933843 274288 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1418933853 148837 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1418933917 576529 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solved it thabks < 1418933939 300460 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost..... < 1418934077 946102 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418934339 963601 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1418934730 320430 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1418934998 751329 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1418935099 94378 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.59.108.144 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418935120 989313 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.59.108.144 NICK :Guest82803 < 1418935235 546807 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do I get double free or corruption in calloc < 1418935240 879302 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in freeing the result of calloc < 1418935268 961109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind can often tell. < 1418935283 316066 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418935290 589959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Usually it's because of double free or corruption.) < 1418935496 62173 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free(calloc(0, sizeof(platter))); this works < 1418935504 223391 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I assign it into my structure then free it, it dies < 1418935515 409138 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric : u->a[i].elt = calloc(u->r[c], sizeof(platter)); free(u->a[i].elt); < 1418935535 837245 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does u->a[i].elt have the correct type? < 1418935561 229078 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's platter *elt; < 1418935586 354967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't do anything between those two statements? < 1418935632 266137 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You might also want to check what u->r[c] is, though I guess you shouldn't ever get anything else out of calloc than a valid pointer or a null pointer, both of which you can also safely pass to free.) < 1418935663 448943 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 0 in this case < 1418935681 82730 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lpaste.net/116818 this is my test < 1418935776 423440 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1418935798 456828 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think i realized the problem < 1418935900 715845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what was it? (I didn't pick on anything obvious.) < 1418936061 423516 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the a array wasn't big enough so i was out of bounds :S < 1418936082 476392 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason its ok to write into a[i] and get the same pointer value out but freeing it cause da weird crash < 1418936133 491974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it's really "ok". < 1418937262 587798 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1418937558 125712 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418937610 785638 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1418937765 180835 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1418937768 438141 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1418938021 353626 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/mthom/shentong < 1418938033 194739 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The codensity transformation was applied to the KLContext state transformer, and consequently, the new implementation is approximately twice as fast as the first, unoptimized release" < 1418938309 15010 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: installing hard drive < 1418938310 356426 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it wrong that i think the word "optimization" means exclusively things that speed up by a constant? < 1418938327 535467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1418938330 961536 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1418938339 433523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"optimising compilers" would be very boring then < 1418938344 701734 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not things that make the O() function better? < 1418938384 207128 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can optimizing compilers make the O() better? < 1418938406 170911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc and clang do much better than just reducing constants of course < 1418938426 245643 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ive heard about algorithmic speedups < 1418938449 885164 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a benchmark for supercompilers is turing a very naive exponential algorithm into the KMP algorithm < 1418938451 843303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc does even more in terms of optimisations that make a huge difference < 1418938454 131374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it basically has to) < 1418938550 102068 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it seems to me there should be a separate word for things that speed stuff up without modifying the complexity < 1418938559 892818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"boring optimisations" :p < 1418938578 49845 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll call it what from now on < 1418938581 888842 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1418938604 644930 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1418938611 230123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm kidding; plenty of optimisations like that are interesting.) < 1418938617 94371 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What compiler optimizations do you know which give better speedups than constant factors? < 1418938635 738130 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that proper tail recursion is one < 1418938640 312294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: removing a loop is one obvious one < 1418938651 230264 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you remove a loop? < 1418938668 500908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int mult(int m, int n) { int r = 1; for (int i = 0; i < n; i++) r += m; return r; } < 1418938671 489505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be reduced to multiplication < 1418938681 471319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hope all C compilers can do that < 1418938683 151143 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418938723 508129 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine how a compiler would figure that out < 1418938729 378979 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe you that some can do it < 1418938751 165459 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems sort of pointless to just pattern match on if its not part of a more general optimization < 1418938775 911137 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: because of C++ screwedness, C compilers have to optimize the std::algorthms package < 1418938781 303460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: well, one thing is that a lot of trivial-looking optimisations mean much more in the presence of inlining < 1418938796 615958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since inlining can produce easy-to-optimise code that no human would ever write < 1418938831 699946 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :inlining+templates causes compilers to have to be very smart < 1418938920 3885 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting stuff < 1418938924 413434 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general any system based on writing stuff in the language that should be builtin causes extra compilation effort < 1418938959 736689 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1418938962 82540 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: std::string std::vector < 1418939011 403158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_reduction this has a nice "optimisation walkthrough" < 1418939025 377022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for strength reduction < 1418939050 131799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: itym 0 hth < 1418939062 154491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, right. < 1418939067 572332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was half writing factorial, half writing multiplication. < 1418939085 112049 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary < 1418939090 265027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, e.g. GCC replaces that with a test and either a mul or a constant zero: http://sprunge.us/gjcZ < 1418939103 1906 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling is scary < 1418939112 56020 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont like to think about something like strength reduction < 1418939125 444772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's probably just a special case on "a for loop that modifies a variable with a function we can pattern-match on (like addition)" < 1418939138 753324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cool if gcc/clang actually did something mega fancy for loop elimination though :p < 1418939169 711385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I could be totally wrong though. I don't know all that much about optimisations.) < 1418939223 345233 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1418939253 820737 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curiously enough, GCC does the test (except for == 0 instead of <= 0) and branch even for the unsigned variant. Wonder how deliberate that is. < 1418939268 961879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why the test? < 1418939271 883561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is multiplication really that slow? < 1418939279 906731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because signed < 1418939288 949311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for signed it makes a difference. < 1418939299 460539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for unsigned, it still special-cases a return 0 for n == 0. < 1418939318 605455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if there was a way to get actually useful debug output from gcc/clang optimisations < 1418939321 685003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there is and I just don't know it < 1418939335 497955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something where you could actually see it recognising patterns and transforming them < 1418939373 104448 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there a way to dump the GCC intermediate representation? < 1418939385 205661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the -fdump-tree-all stuff. < 1418939386 814242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc has like five intermediate representations, but I assume so < 1418939389 89674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a number of stages. < 1418939425 607232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and -fdump-rtl-all too. < 1418939437 644949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably easier to explore this stuff with LLVM < 1418939460 960888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since LLVM IR is something people actually read and work with and the whole tower is less messy to fiddle around in probably < 1418939500 456720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://sprunge.us/MbXM detailed enough for you?-) < 1418939514 233939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1418939525 435921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends if those files contain useful information themselves :p < 1418939546 66306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be some sort of tool to make sense out of it, maybe give you an interface where you can step through the stages or something. < 1418939550 883003 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :edsger, W, Dijkstra! < 1418939552 3850 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've never looked for one, though.) < 1418939556 261726 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoycrap! < 1418939589 604921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :% gcc -O2 -std=c11 -c -fdump-tree-all -fdump-rtl-all test.c < 1418939589 717786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang: error: unknown argument: '-fdump-tree-all' < 1418939590 387821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang: error: unknown argument: '-fdump-rtl-all' < 1418939593 216242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh, right" < 1418939621 637283 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apple is evil hth < 1418939632 570836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth is a dead meme "hth" < 1418939654 65203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are systems where gcc is clang that aren't OS X anyway < 1418939659 955549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know I'm not running freebsd < 1418939671 628716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a quick empirical test can tell the optimization happens in the tree parts, before the RTL parts. (Not surprising.) < 1418939692 331047 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty unlikely that anyone is running freebsd < 1418939713 478125 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to apple os x < 1418939714 934541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of people run freebsd < 1418939723 417367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially weirdo programmers on IRC < 1418939756 852664 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good point. should really learn to factor that in < 1418939760 138917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ecBY <- there's a couple of randomly selected intermediate tree dump samples and one RTL one. < 1418939823 4958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I forgot to paste something I had between 015 and 141. Oh, well. < 1418939824 598962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so they don't necessarily tell you why they're doing the transformations they are < 1418939838 588811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess you can infer it well enough < 1418939863 139644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming the steps are small enough. (And you know enough of the internals, of course.) < 1418939871 919612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I know zero of the internals < 1418939877 332130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I want nice debug flags < 1418939893 804860 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if the transformations are decided by pattern matching or convoluted test logics? < 1418939991 88229 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418940003 182047 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1418940020 527480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you have a clang that lets you -mllvm -debug < 1418940024 914793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems I don't < 1418940049 452618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unknown command line argument '-debug'." < 1418940058 240666 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418940061 697275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1418940063 847554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only in debug build < 1418940064 322069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1418940124 638893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -print-after-all - Print IR after each pass < 1418940124 728449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -print-before-all - Print IR before each pass < 1418940125 849046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1418940218 716609 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-csnjqvrmokijwtfd JOIN :#esoteric < 1418940244 912884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IR is kind of annoying to read < 1418940309 646709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it'd be easier to read with while (n--) r += m; < 1418940355 107090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: incidentally clang does the same test < 1418940357 14803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with unsigneds < 1418940366 651410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed. < 1418940370 949190 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just better. < 1418940386 227791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, like... why not test for 1 too < 1418940391 749463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why just 0 :p < 1418940444 785932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could still be an artefact, just something common to the implementations of both. < 1418940494 745193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IR dumps are kind of useless < 1418940497 915421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them only show part of the function? < 1418940504 75367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems like the mul disappears in one of those < 1418940513 743654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :around *** IR Dump After Loop-Closed SSA Form Pass *** < 1418940625 479474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/docs/Passes.html cool < 1418940646 865323 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:MNNBFSL14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41515 5* 03AndoDaan 5* (+880) 10Added some concrete bits of code to calculate + * ^ and % < 1418940677 23564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could manually run each pass with opt but uuuugh < 1418940710 126266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, if I deliberately do not initialize r at all, the result is quite funny: mult: imull %esi, %edi; testl %esi, %esi; cmovne %edi, %eax; ret aka "if n != 0, return m*n; otherwise return whatever was in eax". < 1418940715 187009 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:MNNBFSL14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41516&oldid=41515 5* 03AndoDaan 5* (-1) 10 < 1418940747 600950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From GCC. Clang just did "mult: ret". < 1418940769 484632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it even bother adding a ret < 1418940775 35788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take advantage of that UB!!11 < 1418940831 113737 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it how is that an advantage < 1418940860 396411 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should just fail to compile < 1418940865 30249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that simple < 1418940868 811875 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it goes that far < 1418940878 817732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you clearly didn't read the posts about UB I linked you :p < 1418940904 20530 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :compilers should just error out on UB < 1418940915 442497 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do something obvious < 1418940916 561893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is not that simple. < 1418940922 50796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer-should-know_21.html < 1418940926 910460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see Why can't you warn when optimizing based on undefined behavior? < 1418940955 36269 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A type system could help protect against UB < 1418940961 869124 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to design a language like C but much safer < 1418941006 972730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just all program in ATS < 1418941015 946862 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Defining it would help againt UB < 1418941019 113153 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I (irrationally) don't like ATS < 1418941065 339566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, it does fail to compile if you add enough flags -- "error: variable 'r' is uninitialized when used here [-Werror,-Wuninitialized]". AIUI, it's a warning with known false positives, though. < 1418941068 433497 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the next version of C i would like all UB to either be defined or an error < 1418941092 50287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1418941095 738051 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, I don't think C can be salvaged, a new language has to be created < 1418941134 609952 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1418941136 553580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I am sympathetic to the desire for a language without UB but scorched earth solutions like that are not really simple or reasonable to apply to C < 1418941142 113271 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. uninitialized variables: just make it zero. < 1418941150 373485 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: what about implementation-defined behavior? < 1418941190 481710 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I actually (and perversely) really like the notion that behavior can be undefined to different degrees.) < 1418941209 17252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should stop the arguing with a brick wall thing < 1418941240 122448 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it should stipulate restrictions so that compilers can't just do things that make no sense. < 1418941249 392319 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like return whatever is in eax < 1418941318 751513 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean don't expect perfection if i code stuff wrong, but i expect sanity. < 1418941327 82176 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an error < 1418941359 305249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably wouldn't be able to get you to read all the posts I linked you about UB in C, right? < 1418941371 568392 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: There are C# and Java. < 1418941464 757368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *want* a reasonably safe, fast, low-level language with compile-time guarantees and no (or at least significantly fewer) UB gotchas like C. "C but with arbitrary definitions for all UB" is not that language, in many, many ways. UB is not just something you can rip entirely out of C and end up with something that isn't worse in quite a few ways < 1418941477 392434 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418941477 508767 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is insane to some degrees, and there are various lint-like tools to catch such more of those mistakes than compilers do, but there is a method beneath the insanity, which is to allow better optimizing compilers. You may not like the way that compiler writers shape a standard, but that's what C is. < 1418941500 852794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, clang --analyze will also catch this particular case. ("warning: The left expression of the compound assignment is an uninitialized value. The computed value will also be garbage" "warning: Undefined or garbage value returned to caller"). < 1418941502 452211 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i read the post from llvm but there is no excuse for just returning whatever is in eax and not erroring. returning whatever is in eax will probably cause a RUNTIME error with no readily assignable couse < 1418941516 472677 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, did you read what I said about KMP < 1418941516 807768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are actually three posts on the llvm blog < 1418941519 870657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some from regehr's < 1418941535 183918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also I doubt you would take them into account if you actually read them so I don't really care < 1418941615 880473 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oren < 1418941616 6612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: run more free < 1418941627 148287 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Knuth Morris pratt algorithm < 1418941740 518321 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1418941786 142621 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"run more free" seems more like a statement than a list of unrelated commands. < 1418941796 117197 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418941798 816300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: run more free < 1418941799 134330 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks for your comments, i greately fnord it and failed < 1418941810 530551 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'm sorry to hear that. < 1418941810 754852 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: l is no good distributed garbage collector for it. any others? < 1418941828 828978 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I don't know, but maybe the next letter in the alphabet? < 1418941829 155753 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does it have to be so annoying that, to show that it a) gives an error < 1418942011 73247 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: yes. < 1418942015 925228 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.84.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418942017 939392 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont knwo how it is done < 1418942027 145651 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is an extreme type of optimization < 1418942032 81398 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing one algorithm into a better one < 1418942052 226186 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I want a C-level language with optional GC, but we can't always get what we want ;) < 1418942062 704979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eightebed < 1418942085 43112 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming in 2D is so hard XD < 1418942103 271509 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Just wait for 4D programming. < 1418942148 652117 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1418942154 86854 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: but what the compilers did did make sense; they optimized the code under the assumption that no undefined behaviour would be triggered at runtime. The only failing is that they didn't warn that the code could not be used without triggering undefined behaviour at all (if I read the context correctly) < 1418942171 966131 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.84.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1418942182 917637 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: that's what UB is to the compiler, an assumption it can make to aid optimization. < 1418942236 818692 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generally those are conditions that a compiler cannot check at all, thanks to Rice's theorem. < 1418942305 392442 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: they shouldn't generate code that returns an undefined value. remember, they optimized it to mult:ret < 1418942323 250621 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should fail if they are going to do that < 1418942333 687812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuuuggghhhhh < 1418942343 536098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You thought it was over, but IT WAS NOT. < 1418942349 54787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay if you want to pull everyone in the channel in turn into an argument about UB every few days but only if you actually listen to what they say < 1418942365 109940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1418942382 617271 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how is it invalid to ask that a compiler fail rather than generate nonsense? < 1418942391 430717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill me < 1418942428 937745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't try to attempt to drag me back into an argument in response to me pointing out how unproductively you're going about it -_- < 1418942451 119115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just ban you both from talking to each other wth < 1418942455 65672 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1418942478 36450 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, we should design a low level language like C but strong static checks that make sure it has no UB < 1418942482 524929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was actually cluid and int-e this time < 1418942483 885838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cluid < 1418942486 236202 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, I have a couple ideas for this < 1418942487 244094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1418942487 805492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh < 1418942488 811650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oren and int-e < 1418942491 711690 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1418942506 537888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:40 pm, norwegian morning < 1418942506 753866 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, I only visited the llvm-about-UB link after I wrote the above reply < 1418942534 182557 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I found an HDD in my drawer today < 1418942558 144735 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting some awesome nostalgia and an old windows install with a ton of stuff from when I was younger < 1418942563 780760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was talking to oren. it's fine if you want to read blog posts out for him < 1418942576 163505 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turned out to be really boring D: < 1418942586 106873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is bad for me. < 1418942590 845018 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well for me it's ... let's see ... i got up at 4 pm, so let's call it late afternoon. < 1418942646 109458 :_AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.84.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1418942650 990844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: think about it as cathartic [sp] hth < 1418942696 635381 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I could've spared you some redundancy. < 1418942830 185219 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oren, we should design a low level language like C but strong static checks that make sure it has no UB <-- i really thought that was what rust was about, although it's not clever enough to avoid having unsafe blocks, but then i guess probably nothing can do device drivers entirely safely on a modern architecture < 1418942836 756119 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand that in this case the analyzer thinks the whole function is UB and therefore cannot be called. if that is the case it should simply fail if the function is ever called. < 1418942851 250597 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think rust is 'about that' but in practice I don't have high hopesfor them < 1418942879 973989 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have some really questionable ideas like rigorous formalization is something you do post-facto < 1418942929 576308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: you cannot rigorously formalize something while the design is in flux, surely < 1418942953 469310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it would be a tremendous waste of work, anyway < 1418942993 913990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm cathartic actually _is_ spelled that way. i was worried that it was actually a cata- prefix. < 1418943000 83902 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a flexible language based on a solid theory < 1418943044 247775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: yes but you have to test out a language to know how much flexibility you need < 1418943072 890365 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me that the sane way to handle UB isn't "assume it never happens" but "do whatever makes sense on this architecture". < 1418943091 303364 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two approaches to UB that I know of: < 1418943114 379010 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) Put the responsibility on the programmer to not write UB < 1418943131 722081 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B) Enforce that all programs are well defined by some kind of static analysis such as a type system < 1418943220 504370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B) is the only way if you want safety _and_ optimal performance, i should think < 1418943220 570581 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am defining a third path: C) define it according to the architecture. E.g. on X86 signed addition should be assumed to wrap. On a sign-magnitude architecture it might be assumed to hit a wall. etc. < 1418943239 458116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no "makes sense according to architecture" for many (most?) of the things. < 1418943250 962386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like uninitialized variables. < 1418943253 464890 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what is a bit sensible is, depend if it is implementation-defined; if it isn't then the compiler should just ignore it and doesn't make an assumption < 1418943259 578209 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, Good idea: Implementation defined behavior < 1418943276 169855 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there is a slight problem in that one might want to know whether their program is portable or not, statically < 1418943326 370173 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this: "we quickly learned that people do occasionally dereference null pointers, and having the code execution just fall into the top of the next function makes it very difficult to understand the problem." < 1418943348 127344 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.77.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418943378 269027 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i was moaning when i read that part. like how can that possibly be a sane thing to do < 1418943450 790770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's a cost associated with not doing it, presumably. < 1418943458 655537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: UB makes "sense" if you understand that the _primary_ goal is to allow the result to be as fast as possible < 1418943502 835828 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because we want to segfault as fast as we can? < 1418943529 130766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, the reason for it is right there in the next sentence: "The drawback of doing this is that we slightly bloat code by having these operations and having the conditions that control their predicates." < 1418943536 123587 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, have you ever done ICFP < 1418943543 872658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: nope < 1418943544 656375 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming they're for the most part actually unreachable code, like they should. < 1418943575 176810 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lpaste.net/116828 < 1418943581 109278 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is from ICFP http://www.boundvariable.org/task.shtml < 1418943583 688419 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can easily argue that the safety is worth a little bloat, but it certainly doesn't make avoiding the bloat "insane". < 1418943619 351333 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone should join in doing this task, its the most fun thing :) < 1418943653 536458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost as if the question is whether the design of C makes the right tradeoffs and is as sophisticated as it should be, rather than whether the designers and implementors of C are completely incompetent and haven't given a moment's thought to anything < 1418943682 266236 :zzo38_!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1418943708 741001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1418943715 645793 :zzo38_!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca NICK :zzo38 < 1418943787 990796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure the ICFP contest is over for this year < 1418943793 588664 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they have decided, imo wrongly, to exploit the C standard in a way that sometimes generates nonsense, and then not bother to detect and issue an error when thye generate complete nonsense < 1418943807 929305 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is from 2006 < 1418943818 765053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no "exploit". compilers and the C committee are not at war. they work together. nothing unintended is happening < 1418943820 616699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's over for 2006 too. < 1418943833 748585 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe complete nonsense is the correct thing to generate in some cases? < 1418943849 917900 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418943850 976134 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1418943860 47838 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if i want nonsense i'll write it by hand in assembler < 1418943861 954505 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should read it carefully so that you can know for sure. < 1418943864 419273 :erdic_!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1418943865 137284 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwllragvhziustfp JOIN :#esoteric < 1418943873 881409 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still play it < 1418943887 883046 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at my lpaste < 1418943889 227278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: handwritten assembler isn't as fast as C in practice hth < 1418943890 794477 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I write it in assembler then it won't be very portable (unless running in an emulator) < 1418943912 577937 :erdic_!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley NICK :erdic < 1418943917 188250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats himself for joining the discussion -----###
< 1418943929 846536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, this thing again? < 1418943933 739645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey, not fair < 1418943937 574709 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm saying if i want a function that returns whatever is by chance in eax, i'll just write such in assmebler < 1418943958 168280 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no need for clang to write one for me < 1418943961 79778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, because you can't write such a function in C. < 1418943974 635491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no eax in C. < 1418943976 237443 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it will be only on x86 < 1418943977 174522 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: on clang you can apparently < 1418943993 482393 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you just simply don't care the return value then it should be allowed to specify such thing. < 1418944029 785265 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think LLVM has a command to don't care the return value. < 1418944043 418951 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in the discussion above, a lengthy function with a loop was compiled to label:ret < 1418944058 429439 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of undefined ehaviour < 1418944070 700317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please take this to #esoteric-ub < 1418944075 170745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1418944086 568646 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the loop doesn't do anything (or otherwise has no effect elsewhere) then should be optimized out OK < 1418944089 899921 :CrazyM4n!~CrazyM4n@ip70-162-52-61.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1418944126 112386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's wrong with #esoteric-crap or whatever it was called < 1418944132 719834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: -blah, I think. < 1418944135 522791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1418944139 169361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Unless you're talking about a different thing. < 1418944141 451810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a thing? < 1418944146 634846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: #esoteric-blah usually contains more useful discussion than this < 1418944147 275082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was this channel < 1418944162 854409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was about to say it was a place for e.g. botspam, but that's this channel too. < 1418944183 683053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Or wouldn't you agree? < 1418944183 941924 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yome says: may be slime wants you to do anything useful < 1418944188 456593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1418944195 350213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is p. much it < 1418944200 315651 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok, i have posted in the channel specified < 1418944201 213928 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418944209 193567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i joined the discussion so why didn't i get swat < 1418944235 36494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i didn't swat everyone else in the discussion did i? < 1418944248 723321 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but i was at least as unwise as you hth < 1418944257 692735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's a more obvious answer, which you might discover some day. < 1418944277 518088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it eludes me entirely hth < 1418944318 145121 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also #esoteric#shadow channel which is made for impossible to get banned because it is held by the log service < 1418944355 795907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, you can have #s in the middle of channel names < 1418944367 770624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's obvious but didn't really occur to me < 1418944375 918823 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks worng. < 1418944382 820524 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I think anything is allowed other than spaces, bells, nulls, carriage returns, and line feeds. < 1418944391 670730 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric hashtag shadow < 1418944419 788367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think other control characters are OK to be included in a channel name. < 1418944420 593714 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Or commas. < 1418944431 693269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: O, yes, that too. < 1418944441 710784 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :were channel names based on hashtags? < 1418944455 129201 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No the # means the type of channel < 1418944460 72082 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Freenode it is the only kind < 1418944460 351489 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other way around < 1418944462 286533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. irc is a ripoff of twitter < 1418944466 165150 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There was the famous "/join #2,000" joke.) < 1418944467 782525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other IRC servers have other kinds of channel < 1418944484 799026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does /join #2,000 still work < 1418944539 735804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, + means modeless channel, & means local to a server, ! means it is safe from being overwritten by net splitting < 1418944541 781120 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on freenode, at least. < 1418944563 665336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It joins #2 (which is mostly empty) and goes "000 :No such channel". < 1418944566 816265 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is recommended to use + & ! channels if possible instead of # however many servers don't support it. < 1418944575 896675 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm programming in a 2D language < 1418944585 54386 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok WP says irc predates twitter. i dodn't knwo that < 1418944606 999313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by almost 20 years, yeah :p < 1418944639 961032 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought irc was based on twitter but i wasn't sure < 1418944663 353239 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess twitter might be based on irc < 1418944676 309710 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know neither is based on another < 1418944702 580783 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, if you follow a hashtag on twitter that is sort of like being on a chennel in irc < 1418944734 189719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'pedia claims hashtags (which weren't a feature Twitter had at launch) are IRC-inspired, which I've sort of assumed but not really known. < 1418944750 167980 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, IRC predates Twitter by I think decads < 1418944803 162784 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: apparently so. see i only learned history up to the end of WWII < 1418944841 691613 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all that is taught in high school mandatory history < 1418944847 960222 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1418944859 723304 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen other newer chat protocols too but as far as I can see none of them are any good compared to IRC; most of them are too complicated < 1418944877 439620 :MC_SOMBRA!~CARLOS@186.167.242.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1418944884 818252 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Finland, history of IRC is a mandatory part of the school curriculum. (Disclaimer: a lie.) < 1418944919 765114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though being on IRC at least used to be almost mandatory for anyone studying CS at our university. < 1418944952 89912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an IRC guide in the welcome booklet for new students, and lots of course stuff used to happen via IRC. < 1418944988 482399 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my school uses a BBS forum < 1418945027 379023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also a thriving local NNTP server (student campus stuff, course stuff, miscellaneous chattery) which is also almost entirely dead now. < 1418945100 681675 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :NNTP was discontinued at uoft a long time ago < 1418945175 698108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I set up a NNTP server anyways? I never did because I didn't figure out how. < 1418945206 346458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The venerable ones are not very user-friendly. < 1418945216 387486 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1418945220 429381 :MC_SOMBRA!~CARLOS@186.167.242.224 PART :#esoteric < 1418945246 541959 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: venerable doesn't just mean old y'know... < 1418945248 839929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn i was just about to ask him if he use canaima < 1418945249 143197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to run one of the slightly more modern ones, as a local leaf site, the kind of thing that just fetches new news of a specified subset of groups as a regular client. < 1418945269 740412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't using it to mean "old". < 1418945271 759900 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :venerable: suitable for veneration < 1418945291 359773 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a god or a noble ancestor < 1418945331 172683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, or like INN. < 1418945350 381464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I ran Leafnode, I think.) < 1418945357 472840 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want to set up local groups too though, otherwise I would just try to use ISP's NNTP server < 1418945359 63575 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Leafnode is a store-and-forward NNTP (or Usenet) proxy server designed for small sites with just a few active newsgroups, but very easy to set up and maintain, when compared to INN." < 1418945363 416191 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the honest truth. < 1418945381 279313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can do local groups, though that's not really its main use case. < 1418945416 996019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'm pretty sure I had some test group there that even had like three users at some point. < 1418945480 137334 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Chronologically, this was around 1997-1999 or so. Things might have changed since then.) < 1418945594 238818 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1418945617 813087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Leafnode 1.x does not support local newsgroups. Leafnode 2.x will do that." (But 2.x is in some alpha stage that it probably won't ever come out of.) < 1418945645 264030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be misremembering, though in that case I'm wondering what on earth did I actually run the local group on, then. < 1418945683 395780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I did in fact set up INN. The configuration stuff looks vaguely familiar. < 1418946320 505815 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1418946531 409613 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.77.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1418947066 387811 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/34v1kJ9.jpg < 1418947072 470432 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that equation really define the zeta function? < 1418947085 545473 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about zeta(s) = 0 < 1418947095 799111 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to contradict their 'reimann hypothesis' < 1418947195 767316 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It defines the hypothesis wrong, at least.