00:00:02 web comics, code golfing, Haskell, the many warts of C, category theory and esoteric programming languages. 00:00:04 I am a programmer, and sleepy atm ... 00:00:34 Also orthography and grammar. 00:00:43 sleepy atms are bad, they keep your money 00:01:15 same except without the sleepy part 00:01:19 And... I forgot the most important topic: puns. 00:01:31 int-e: you make this channel sound so much better than it actually is :p 00:01:43 elliott: you're welcome :P 00:01:52 elliott, you are atm? 00:02:18 yes, I'm an automated teller machine; I automatically tell this channel things 00:02:45 a web comic about code golfing in esoteric programming languages the category theory of the many warts of C 00:03:15 OK you can try to make such a comic? 00:04:02 Well, the main topic of this channel is esoteric programming but a lot of things can be discussed; of course, mostly the things listed there. 00:05:05 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:07:16 -!- roasted42 has joined. 00:12:01 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:12:22 -!- shikhout has changed nick to Guest31893. 00:14:52 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:19:50 -!- oren has joined. 00:23:31 does the nightly build of something mean they compile the whole project every night? 00:25:10 I don't know 00:25:41 because i compile most of my projects every few minutes when i'm working on them 00:25:48 Wikipedia says a nightly build is a neutral build done automatically 00:26:07 And, "a neutral build is a software build that reflects the current state of the source code checked into the source code version control system by the developers, and done in a neutral environment (an environment not used for development)" 00:26:42 ohhh... i get it. it's a clean build with nothing from previousbuilds 00:27:45 so they can know that the whole thing actually compiles, and doesn't just work on their system 00:28:44 Indeed. Now they know it works on one other system. 00:29:18 ha. yeah the rust source code doesn't compile on my system. 00:29:40 it takes all my memory and forces me to kill it 00:32:23 well they also know that it has all the source files and isn't just using a .o file that was left around... 00:32:23 [wiki] [[MNNBFSL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41521&oldid=41506 * AndoDaan * (-64) /* External resources */ Live version. 00:32:23 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 00:32:23 -!- idris-bot has joined. 00:32:23 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 00:32:24 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:32:50 fiendish 00:33:32 oerjan: yeah that's what i thought. well i'm trying to at least install the binaries now, we'll see if they work... 00:35:43 oren: out of curiosity, how much memory do you have? 00:36:00 not enough 00:36:11 oren: btw have you heard of swap 00:36:16 elliott: well that's true for everybody. 00:36:24 int-e: yeah but it's a very not enough 00:36:38 i have 2GB of memory and 2GB swap 00:36:41 like 1 or 2 gigabytes the last time this came up re: firefox's amazing incredible huge gigantic bloat that needs to be rlimited away, or something 00:37:11 oren: ah. ok, that's small nowadays. 00:37:15 i am running 64-bit linux 00:37:41 * int-e had to upgrade to 8GB because 4GB was too little for some stuff. 00:37:42 elliott already told me thats dumb 00:38:08 I have 16 gigabytes and I'd still kind of like more 00:38:15 it's enough but more breathing room would be good 00:38:27 64000 bytes should be enought for anyone 00:38:47 (this PC's motherboard can't handle more than 8 GB, unfortunately.) 00:39:13 i am on a cheap craptop 00:39:26 -!- idris-bot has joined. 00:39:28 poor lambdabot is confined to a 512 MB+512 MB swap VM. 00:39:52 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:40:05 more RAM + bigger SSD is the finest luxury of computing 00:40:51 apparently rustc binaries install fine, i just can't compile them myself 00:41:31 not sure how that's surprising 00:42:00 -!- roasted42 has joined. 00:42:11 eventually i will buy a less crappy computer, like in a year or so 00:44:12 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 00:46:52 craptop is such a nice word 00:47:30 I thought the term was "netbook". 00:49:08 (I have one. I don't build software on it anymore. The last big thing I compiled was ghc 7.6.1...) 00:49:21 So apparently dark is faster than light since it carries no information and im done with physics forever 00:50:32 Solace: well it's not really an object... 00:50:44 Yeh 00:50:50 "Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." - Pratchett (via Google) 00:52:08 From "Reaper Man", hmm. 00:52:10 But in geometric terms the point when you close scissors gets to the end before the blades close so if you were to use really long (light year) sized scissor blades would the point still get there as fast 00:52:28 Gonna go eat 00:52:37 And back to heresy 00:52:56 Solace: that's absolutely nowhere _near_ the weirdest thing in physics. it doesn't really even need relativity or quantum mechanics 00:53:31 * int-e wonders whether "Solace" has any relation to "Quantum" 00:53:53 If you heat the head of a pin to the same point as the core of the sun it will kill every living thing in a 1000 mile radious 00:54:09 What int-e ? 00:54:47 Solace: apparently not. (There's that James Bond movie.) 00:54:49 the head of a pin? i'm not sure i buy that, needs some calculation... 00:55:09 15 billion kelvin 00:55:13 Is pretty hot 00:55:15 wat 00:55:18 How many fairies can dance on that head of a pin? 00:55:30 But what about plank temperature 00:55:30 i'm pretty sure the core of the sun isn't believed to be that hot 00:56:14 Solace: million, not billion 00:56:26 Sorry 00:56:35 I was like what 00:57:18 because i remember that fusion reactors are only millions, but they still have to be _hotter_ than the sun to compensate for lack of pressure. 00:57:26 Plank temperature is 141e^31 i think 00:57:30 -!- qlkzy_ has changed nick to qlkzy. 00:57:38 Planck? i forget how its spelt 00:57:55 The unit of measure i mean 00:57:58 Not the wood 00:58:34 i think planck 00:58:39 Yeh 00:59:00 Well doesnt it get really hot if you were to compress waves to that point 01:00:31 hm where can you find a formula for the amount of energy in a pinhead given temperature 01:01:09 A pinhead shaped cloud of high-energy subatomic particles 01:02:22 hm equation of state may be the term 01:02:45 Well the boltzmann equation relates particle speed to temperature, so combine that with kinetic energy... 01:02:57 argh so many 01:03:08 both those equations might be wrong at that temperature tho 01:05:04 How old are you oerjan 01:05:06 bah i cannot be bothered 01:05:09 Solace: 44 01:05:36 well assuming they're not, you do E = T*(3/2)*k_B 01:05:57 Im alot younger than you and pretty much every one here ;-; 01:06:03 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:06:04 I am 21 01:06:20 5 years younger than oren 01:06:24 i'm probably the oldest regularly talking here... 01:06:43 -!- nys has joined. 01:07:03 although there was someone here even older a few years back, he made a cobol-based esolang :P 01:07:25 Welp 01:07:47 I have alot to learn 01:07:52 -!- roasted42 has joined. 01:07:52 Solace: some regulars here weren't older than you when they joined, so don't panic 01:08:00 Solace: you have plenty of time to do so 01:08:12 I was 11 :p 01:08:17 :0 01:08:29 how time flies 01:08:47 How old are you now elliott 01:08:50 19. 01:08:52 :00 01:09:26 Well im one day into winter break 01:09:28 technically I might have joined when I was 10, like, once 01:09:36 but I didn't say anything 01:10:00 That was 8 years ago 01:10:01 Elliott is 19 OДO 01:10:13 2006 01:10:23 is a 19 year old on the internet really that surprising 01:10:29 :^0 01:10:30 I understood the shock when I was 12, but... :p 01:10:37 i made http://esolangs.org/wiki/Itflabtijtslwi i made this when i was 11 01:10:47 elliott a 19 year old who is so much smarter than me is 01:10:54 oops i said words twice 01:11:04 Well i joined the internets at the age of 9 and have been ruined ever since 01:11:32 me too... well the trip to japan didn't help 01:11:36 Oh the internet is an awful place 01:11:53 I forget when I started using the internet but it was before I was 8. 01:12:02 Where awful people are free to spew garbage 01:12:18 it's weird that there are fourteen year olds born in 2000 :/ 01:12:18 the japanese internet is if anything worse 01:12:24 I could argue about haskell on the internet with someone born in 2000 01:12:45 elliott: you probably do, from time to time 01:12:50 yes 01:12:55 well I'm not in #haskell any more so maybe not really 01:12:55 I was at a party last night with someone who was born 2002 01:13:14 Its weird to talk to people born in the 2000 01:13:18 https://xkcd.com/386/ <-- yes, awful place indeed. 01:13:28 -!- mitchs has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:13:46 Oh my lord 01:13:59 nys: oh you made that language 01:14:10 liking /// at 11 is good taste 01:14:15 :D 01:14:20 I started programming and making silly things at the age of 12 but thats cuz i was all like 01:14:28 :0 coding is cool wow 01:14:39 I started at 8 with PHP :( 01:14:47 :0 01:14:47 i have a new idea but i'm not sure it's interesting on its own without an implementation 01:14:50 I started at 9 with PErl 4 01:14:51 well then 01:14:53 i started at 12 with qbasic :( 01:15:10 12 is a good age to start code 01:15:41 qbasic on the other hand isn't a good language to 01:15:57 what is crazier is that some of my cousins satrted having kids at 16-18 01:16:03 Did all of it secretly though since my schools were filled with bullies who hated smart kids 01:16:04 qbasic isn't that bad a first language 01:16:25 i was a bully in public school 01:16:41 ;-; 01:16:45 Why 01:17:09 I started python at 12 01:17:10 i liked to make fun of people 01:17:17 :( 01:17:24 because he wanted to eliminate all smarter people so he'd be the smartest? 01:17:44 Not the smartest if you make people feel bad 01:17:53 also i had anger management issues 01:17:57 don't think that's the definition of smart 01:18:02 well dont we all 01:18:23 afaik you tend to be less socially compatible if you are too smart 01:18:33 If you like to write computer games in DOS, then QBASIC is not so bad 01:18:35 yeh 01:18:42 actually it turned out everyone else thought I was the one being bullied 01:18:51 wat 01:18:56 Well then 01:19:10 they saw fights and assumed i didn't start them 01:19:19 ©_© 01:19:24 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:19:54 just because i was short! dumb teachers 01:19:59 * oerjan hadn't realized /// was on the wiki before him 01:21:20 -!- roasted42 has joined. 01:21:36 Im trying to find a game that was like 2d but made inbetween 2008-2011 and its about a small spaceship that goes on an adventure trying to save the planet from a darkness and this game is like all puzzely i just like the music but Google is very unhelpful 01:21:50 /-/ 01:21:55 does anybody know if there is a language in the wiki where programs could be checked? 01:22:08 Uh 01:22:09 checked how? 01:22:20 with CTL for example 01:23:03 i thought about writing a modell checker for my language 01:23:14 not sure if i was the first one with that idea 01:23:27 Promela deserves to go on the wiki 01:23:36 :D 01:26:52 i'm not aware of any language in the wiki with CTL as a built in thing 01:27:30 well, i'm not sure if i want to built it into the language itself 01:27:45 but i do think writing a modellchecker for it would be easy enough 01:27:48 it's applicable to any language with statefulness imo 01:28:29 well, yes, but you have to name your states 01:31:02 -!- roasted42 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:33:40 oerjan: /// is interesting because it is one of those languages that is much more interesting than I suspect the author could have possibly anticipated... 01:33:53 (compare to brainfuck, which is rather "predictable" in a sense) 01:34:52 Though Brainfuck at least has the excuse it wasn't even intended to be interesting. 01:35:51 (I mean, compare the 99bob to your later work...) 01:36:22 -!- roasted42 has joined. 01:36:53 heh 01:38:45 like, /// is very easy to come up with, and it seems like a probably not-that-interesting, sub-TC language idea when you come up with it 01:38:51 but given more work it ends up quite amazing 01:43:18 /// is, in some sense, just a generalisation of thue 02:02:20 -!- boily has joined. 02:27:46 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:29:32 -!- roasted42 has joined. 02:32:30 [wiki] [[Brainfuck derivatives]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41522&oldid=41517 * Oerjan * (+5) /* MIBBLLII Isn't brainfuck But Looks Like It Is */ sp, link 02:36:50 [wiki] [[K-on Fuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41523&oldid=41514 * Oerjan * (+12) /* Example Code */ Use rectwrap class 02:39:53 if MIBBLLII were my language, i would've called it IIBBLLII 02:42:02 I called MIBBLLII MIBBLLII because MIBBLII isn't brainfuck but looks like it is 02:42:38 Also because I pronounce the acronym "mibbly" and that sounds cute 02:43:16 [wiki] [[Flow chart]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41524&oldid=41520 * Oerjan * (-2) subsections 02:45:12 Taneb: by that principle, it clearly should have been WIBBLII hth 02:45:26 *WIBBLLII 02:46:08 or perhaps BIBBLLII 02:46:18 oren: out of curiosity how old did you expect me to be 02:48:57 uhh... maybe 36 at least, given that you seem to be as experienced and knowledgeable as my professors... if you're going to college, you should either major in something other than CS, or be going to like... Yale or something 02:50:05 36 lol 02:50:11 old 'n grumpy 02:50:35 (I dropped out of school a decade ago, actually.) 02:51:29 you dropped out in 4th grade? holy crap 02:51:56 somewhere around that, I guess (I'm not american) 02:52:43 well aparently you didn't need it. 02:52:52 What bots are in here? 02:53:02 ^prefixes 02:53:05 oops 02:53:09 `prefixes 02:53:15 And, What do they do/are made in 02:53:16 sheesh 02:53:28 Im guessing those arent in? 02:53:31 lambdabot interprets haskell 02:53:40 HackEgo is in, it's just horrendously slow these days 02:53:41 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 02:53:41 well, it makes going to university a bit harder when you have no qualifications 02:53:45 I left for mostly non-education-related reasons though 02:53:46 fungot is made in befunge 02:54:02 Ego? 02:54:06 and does various utility like things 02:54:39 EgoBot has a number of esolangs implemented 02:55:21 blsqbot interprets burlesque 02:55:26 egobot is mostly obsolete these days 02:55:26 `echo hi 02:55:28 hi 02:55:30 elliott: 4th grade?! 02:55:52 HackEgo is slightly less slow once it gets up and running 02:55:53 I don't know your grades! all I know is I was about 10 (I don't remember exactly) 02:56:09 Oh 10 02:56:11 Um 02:56:18 that would be 4th or 5th grade 02:56:20 6th grade 02:56:33 I was also born in August so I was younger than everyone else or something 02:56:37 I don't know, I don't remember 02:56:38 For my district/depending in date of birth 02:56:47 Like i was born in June 02:56:52 So i graduate at 17 02:57:12 yeah so basically you didn't take middle or high school 02:57:22 in our system 02:57:23 B-but 02:57:26 How 02:57:33 In our system 02:57:41 well, I dropped out in what we call middle school... 02:58:10 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:58:10 You are fined placed on a beka system and if you dont report to school you are fined and either arrested or sentenced to house arrest 02:58:36 it's funny because i basically didn't attend grades 1-6 02:58:56 Also the multitude of tests and state requirement ls and the bills that just destroy education 02:59:04 Is so pressuring on a teen 02:59:25 That it can cause depression and mental illness lack of sleep and disorders 02:59:29 Yay America 02:59:47 tbf I also spent a while in a children's mental health unit as a teen, there was compulsory schooling there 03:00:15 -!- roasted42 has joined. 03:00:18 Well these are artificially brought on 03:00:23 School days are like this 03:00:31 -!- dts|pokeball has joined. 03:00:59 Wake up at 3:00 to 5:00 am go to school till 2:30 pm go to sleep at 10:00 pm 03:01:00 my mental illnesses were not brought on by schooling 03:01:04 well, probably. 03:01:05 Start over 03:01:26 in high school they always told us university was going ot be so hard, but really it is easier 03:01:31 Since most sleep schedules have to be forced because of in out studying 03:01:46 -!- Farra_000 has joined. 03:02:00 I feel as if i live in London most of the days because of my weekend sleep schedule 03:02:34 Since its never actually night in London because of it being halfway in the suns light and earths cast shadow 03:02:34 you should try my sleep schedules, they're great 03:02:44 Example? 03:02:56 my sleep schedule is to sleep 12 hours every two days 03:02:58 my classic is "sleep for 16 hours every other day" 03:03:02 damn 03:03:09 there's not room enough here for both of us, oren 03:03:13 lol 03:03:18 I sleep for 03:03:26 mostly I just do an oerjan-style "moving forward an hour or a few every day erratically" 03:03:29 now 03:03:32 Let me i actually have to write this down 03:03:39 with some doomed atetmpts at resetting it with all-nighters and stuff 03:04:09 when i was working, i stabilized it as 12 hours every two days 03:04:22 Since i wake up for school at 2 am cuz before school tutoring and my internship thats at 4 am 03:04:26 mine is almost impossible to stabilise 03:04:31 So 03:04:43 -!- Farra_000 has left. 03:04:44 if I get forced into a normal schedule, I get tireder and tireder every day 03:04:49 I think moving an hour every few days is pretty standard 03:04:49 sleep at 9pm wake up at 2am 03:04:52 so it isn't sustainable for more than a few days 03:04:57 I know that's what I've ended up doing 03:05:00 Im barely alive 03:05:08 Possibly because I tend to nap in the afternoon 03:05:23 Someone turn caffine into an inhaler 03:05:24 Pls 03:05:36 there are caffeine pills 03:05:52 Inhaler now! 03:06:00 So i can breath it in 03:06:27 I toss a caffeine pill into a cup of coffee each morning 03:06:28 -!- oerjan has set topic: The sleepless channel | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 03:06:39 Thanks 03:06:44 caffeine pills make me incredibly shaky and sick 03:06:53 modafinil is better, it just makes me a bit sick 03:06:55 Me too! but i have to 03:07:15 Cuz i have to be up for job 03:07:24 melatonin is also useful to some degree (but not enough for me) 03:07:31 oerjan, I'd argue that MIBBLLII isn't really a brainfuck derivative except for syntax 03:07:33 elliott: that happnes when i drink coffe all at once. it is better to have it in small doses every 15 min 03:07:52 I suspect caffeine pills have more in them than a c up of coffee 03:07:55 Supporting your family when you have to go to school is really hard 03:08:06 * Solace breathes heavily 03:08:17 Taneb: personally my main problem with that page is that several of the things there don't have articles. 03:08:34 Im done with life and school 03:08:50 elliott: coffee can vary in caffiene content massivly depending on how it is made 03:08:59 yeah I know 03:09:05 oerjan, hmm yeah 03:09:25 If you are done with life then how can you write on this IRC? 03:09:26 oerjan, sorry, I assumed it was your page because I saw you editing it 03:09:33 zzo38, they said life, not IRC 03:09:42 IRC is undeath 03:09:54 But you cannot type on the computer if you are dead. 03:09:57 Braaaainnns... 03:09:58 I hope to god I don't have to talk in here in the afterlife 03:10:20 -!- dts|pokeball has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:10:23 elliott: I too hope so; because, it would be too difficult. 03:10:27 agreed 03:10:55 Depression fuels typin zzo38 03:11:03 Typing* 03:11:05 Orreeeen hunnngggrrry for brraaaains!! 03:11:22 Taneb: i tend to fix some obvious stuff when i'm looking at recent changes 03:11:53 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:11:59 Just because someone edit it doesn't mean it is their page. Also, just because something is their page doesn't necessarily mean other people are allowed to edit it, too. 03:12:04 the dead talk on Extrasensory Relay Chat 03:13:40 -!- roasted42 has joined. 03:15:10 hopefully when I am dead I will never think about programming ever again 03:19:39 `relcome oerjan 03:19:43 ​oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:20:06 the rainbow is still too dark 03:20:07 ooh 03:20:14 oren: Are you sure? 03:20:47 elliott is reincarnated as an ai super computer in the year 7896 on a not earth planet and is forced to program forever 03:21:42 works for me 03:23:57 ummm... would that not be "reinsilicated"? 03:24:13 given that "carn" means "meat" 03:24:44 well then it wouldn't be "re-" 03:25:11 and if the computer is photonic it might be "invitrated" 03:25:11 elliott: 's ok just program up some undergrads, it's what all the professors do 03:25:12 A coding language based entirely off of bad puns? 03:25:34 hmmmmmmm 03:26:07 Network socket programming? 03:26:28 Whats the difference between a dirty bus station and a crab with breast implants? 03:26:52 you mean 03:26:53 I saw a television show once that mentioned reincarnation, and about people with memories of stuff that they couldn't have known normally, and scientific test, but it doesn't quite looks like "reincarnation" to me, unless that is what you mean by the word "reincarnation" since otherwise it is too much unclearly? 03:26:56 what's "a" difference 03:27:01 because there are a lot of them 03:27:11 One's a crusty bus station the other is a busty crustation 03:27:23 crustacean 03:27:26 *crustac yeah 03:27:29 Yes I know there is a lot of difference someone told me before and it was my answer too there too many difference! 03:28:02 reincarnation: a flower for your horse straps 03:29:02 Im 16 and am running off of pure sugar 03:32:30 transmigration: a limit per day of the E-isomer soviet jets 03:41:56 What is the difference between a rabbit and a gorilla 03:42:05 Rabbits look nothing like gorillas 03:42:58 thanks 03:44:23 -!- dts|pokeball has joined. 03:45:22 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:47:25 -!- roasted42 has joined. 03:47:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:48:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:54:10 Im done 03:54:18 ok 03:54:31 Hi dts|pokeball? 03:54:46 hi 04:04:20 Im done with people in general 04:05:07 try talking to animals 04:05:14 But, are you done with pokeball in general? I have some pokeball inside of my desk drawer 04:05:25 Nah this guy 04:05:27 oren: I think that is difficult. But, you can try! 04:05:35 Is saying he's a perl hacker 04:05:49 And im like, and? 04:05:52 talking to them is easy. getting them to talk mback is hard 04:05:59 Hes getting very angry 04:06:33 why? 04:07:47 Because i use old versions of perl and other things 04:07:54 And hes like i can hack you 04:08:00 Oh well? 04:08:33 lol... "i can haxx0rs j0r compucore d00d" 04:09:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EXTROSPECTIVE CHICKEN). 04:09:20 is keckleon a good pokemon? 04:09:24 Yeh like that 04:09:53 Some attack may be good against other pokemon, so it depend what attacks you used. 04:10:31 Use a lvl 100 shuckle 04:11:00 I started a new game today 04:11:37 well i caught the keklion 04:12:40 Lucky ducks 04:12:46 And your pokemons 04:12:58 I dont have money to spend on games 04:14:45 I bought this game last year 04:15:20 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:17:07 -!- roasted42 has joined. 04:18:17 i'm playing it in japanese this time over 04:21:18 Yay 04:21:23 Glitches 04:36:33 -!- dts|pokeball has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:36:55 -!- dts|pokeball has joined. 04:42:30 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:43:33 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 04:45:22 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:45:41 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:53:57 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:56:55 This is the first pokemon game in which you have anything resemblinga girlfriend. 04:57:19 -!- Guest31893 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:05:15 caught a kabigon (snorelax) 05:06:18 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:07:08 -!- roasted42 has joined. 05:44:43 How small can you make a number 05:44:51 Cuz i wanna break some stufg 05:44:55 Stuff* 05:45:18 Very 05:45:28 Example 05:45:46 -e8888888888888888888888888888 is pretty small 05:45:50 Yes 05:45:59 But not small enough for me 05:46:32 > "-1" ++ repeat '0' 05:46:34 "-10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000... 05:46:46 Small enough? 05:47:12 Uh 05:47:15 Let me see 05:47:22 No 05:47:39 Right, because that is so small it isn't actually a number 05:47:49 Yup 05:47:52 Its a thing 05:47:53 It is the limit of a divergent function 05:48:17 How old are you taneb 05:48:21 20 05:48:36 ©_© 05:49:18 ? 05:50:02 Why do you need a very small number 05:51:15 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:51:27 Solace: 1/Ackermann(5,5) hth 05:51:53 or wait 05:52:12 -Ackermann(5,5) 05:52:14 oerjan, I think Solace wants a low number rather than a small one 05:52:47 -G_64 05:52:55 -BB(G_64) 05:53:02 hth 05:59:12 -!- roasted42 has joined. 06:28:33 -!- Stormzy has joined. 06:28:52 Swiggity swineral much crave such mineral 06:29:19 Solace, you realise that very few people in this channel are going to even have a clue what that joke is about? 06:29:28 Ofc 06:29:41 Do you know what its about? 06:29:43 And it's a joke that requires heaps of context to even make sense 06:29:49 As it happens, yes 06:30:03 i rarely bother to look things up 06:30:11 Mountain goats go up a 90° slope to get salt 06:30:15 On a mountain 06:30:34 Idk how its a meme 06:38:03 the largest number is 1.79769313486232 time ten to the 308. 06:39:19 the most negtive number is negative that 06:39:30 I thought it was 40 million plus 1 06:39:43 coppro, those two numbers are actually equal 06:40:14 happy solstice day everyone 06:40:27 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:40:36 You too 06:40:45 that means this is the longest night of the year 06:40:51 Not where I am! 06:41:39 -!- roasted42 has joined. 06:42:29 solstice occurs late GMT, so that means that most places will have tomorrow night be longer 06:42:45 remember to sing your solstice carols 06:43:36 deck the halls with bows of hally falalalalalalalalala 06:43:54 Taneb: oh you're in australia now? 06:44:17 * oerjan vaguely recalls you passing through hong kong 06:45:54 oren: that's a christmas carol. common mistake. 06:46:07 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQ8bcDaMaI 06:46:17 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:46:39 i don't know any solstice carols. the sta. lucia song is close if you squint anachronistically in two ways simultaneously 06:46:48 or possibly three 06:47:43 (st. lucy's day is on dec. 13, which _used_ to be solstice under the julian calendar - but the change to gregorian happened _before_ the swedes stole the song from the italians) 06:48:48 Jingle bells, Batman smells, Robin laid an egg! 06:49:00 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 06:49:53 coppro: thx now i know one tdh 06:50:49 * oerjan recall's irregular webcomic's old christmas carols 06:50:52 *-' 06:51:14 oerjan, yeah, until tomorrow morning 06:51:50 (also the italian song isn't a carol, or religious at all) 06:51:58 Joy to the world, the teacher's dead, we bbqed her head! 06:52:39 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:54:07 Pettition to rename planet "punishment orb" 06:55:07 Gonna go spend time with family and drink England water 06:55:15 Thats what i call tea 06:55:56 Strafenkugel 06:56:19 Huh 06:57:02 that's punishment orb, except in german, so sounds better 06:57:22 not quite sure about the -en- 06:59:33 罰球- batsukyuu=punishment orb in japanese 07:01:20 or maybe it would shorten to bakkyuu? 07:02:06 hm googling i found Strafenkugel in a long word list, but otoh i found Strafkugel on a site with "bondage" in the title 07:03:00 http://docs.spring.io/spring-framework/docs/2.5.x/api/org/springframework/aop/framework/AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean.html 07:03:20 OH GOD WHY 07:03:24 ok the latter has many more hits (still just 134) 07:04:29 oren: because enterprise hth 07:04:34 apparently 罰球 is a chinese word meaning a free throw or free kick 07:05:37 is it used in football? 07:05:46 (soccer) 07:05:48 in basketball and football. 07:06:03 there are two different kinds of kick in soccer though 07:06:34 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:06:55 oh possibly three 07:07:08 direct free kick, indirect free kick, and penalty kick 07:07:30 the chinese wikipedia article describes this and has articles on each one 07:08:01 (my chinese is very very bad...) 07:08:03 ok 07:08:09 -!- roasted42 has joined. 07:08:53 i just learned today that the new chinese president, or was it premier, is a soccer fan and wants china to stop being ridiculously bad at it 07:09:10 (they're 88th place on the ranking, behind e.g. norway and tiny iceland) 07:09:46 um i guess it's yesterday by now 07:10:29 Why is AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean considered bad 07:12:52 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:12:57 because the factory, singleton, and proxy patterns are by themselves bad things created by a bad language 07:13:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 07:13:07 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:13:24 k/win 6 07:13:52 oerjan: the hp lovecraft historical society has two albums of them, and they're mostly fantastic 07:14:27 coppro: but some are real right? 07:14:53 oerjan: they are all just re-lyriced christmas carols 07:15:01 usually to the same tune, with one notable and wonderful exception 07:15:10 death to the world is joy to the world, but transposed into minor key 07:15:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptP0OR-e7rI 07:15:21 it's pretty amazing 07:22:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:29:47 -!- Stormzy has left. 07:43:47 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:46:03 -!- dts|pokeball has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:48:52 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbk5xdG8V4g 07:49:36 -!- dts|pokeball has joined. 08:33:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:35:59 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=773619 08:36:21 you ever like a song, and then find out the lyrics and they are kind of worrying? 08:37:36 J_ARcane: yeah it should just display the half-loaded page. fail. 08:38:15 oren: indeed. It's a bizarre approach. I haven't seen loading behavior like that in years. 08:38:52 Anyway this song is worrying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy2-B3D0cvU 08:39:43 (lyrics start at 30 seconds in) 08:41:00 I built a spreadsheet program, but i haven't added formulas in. what kind of formula syntax would be better than excel's? 08:45:09 I am thinking that formulae will not be attached to any particular cell, but rather to the page 08:46:19 and then act on the page as "constraints" that are truified each time the spreadsheet is modified 08:47:42 (is "truify" a word? it should be one) 08:51:58 so for example ``[0,0] = [1,0]+[2,0]" will ensure that the equation between those three cells holds true when any of them is modified 08:52:14 That might be a good idea 08:52:36 But in some cases it would become ambiguous 08:53:04 hmm so long as we have some arbitrary rules for biguation 08:54:16 or, disallow adding a formula that isn't true right now 08:54:59 wait that would not solve all of it 08:55:01 oren: In that case at least, what you can do is that if that rule is defined when [0,0] is empty, fill in that cell when the rule is defined 08:55:23 But only for rules of that particular form and only in those cases 08:55:28 yeah i have a special empty type already 08:55:38 Another thing that would help is to be able to define ranges, such as data belongs in this series of rows, and/or columns, and then if you insert rows/columns it expands the range. 08:56:57 here is example of a spreadsheet: http://snag.gy/HdVDO.jpg 09:02:04 http://boingboing.net/2014/12/19/usbdriveby-horrifying-proof-o.html 09:04:53 J_arcane that is pretty horrifying 09:05:39 and reason to lock your computer when you get up to go tothe bathroom 09:07:05 That is also something I have thought of many years ago and is one thing I hate about USB. 09:07:42 But, there are also ways to fix a system to avoid this problem, such as you can fix Linux. 09:09:15 and don't trust anyone to use your computer whom you don't trust implicitly 09:11:35 Physical access. 09:18:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:31:55 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:32:34 -!- adu has joined. 09:47:33 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 10:09:04 About physical access it is still true you should not let them to touch your computer; with physical access you can damage stuff. 10:10:03 But, even if someone give to you and you connect it to your computer, then it can cause this problem with USB. 10:12:43 It is just one of many problems with USB in general. 10:19:08 -!- roasted42 has joined. 10:23:58 -!- InvalidC1 has changed nick to InvalidCo. 10:30:10 perhaps instead of defining exact constraints, we define statements of dependent action 10:30:58 e.g. x<-x+N=>y<-y+N 10:31:27 which means when x changes by N, y changes by the same amount 10:34:46 hmm, but then there are loops. we can resolve this by allowing only one rule mentioning any pair of cells 10:35:32 and allowing <=> as well as => 10:40:08 -!- Solace has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:56:25 No that doesn't help. constraints need to be in a strict tree to avoid loops 10:57:20 following => from any cell should get a tree with no duplicate nodes 11:00:10 yes i think that will work 11:02:22 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:04:25 -!- roasted42 has joined. 11:12:17 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 11:12:17 -!- roasted42 has joined. 11:12:17 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 11:17:37 -!- oren has changed nick to |oren\. 11:31:07 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:32:54 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:35:07 yay! 11:42:05 blargh. I am thus far not finding Scribble nearly as friendly as advertised ... 11:42:40 it's not friendlyi 11:44:06 It seems like a hell of a lot of weird syntax to learn when I could just be writing in Markdown or LyX like I usually would ... 11:45:27 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:45:27 -!- roasted42 has joined. 11:59:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:26:04 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:26:26 -!- shikhout has changed nick to Guest66634. 12:28:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:34:37 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:37:31 -!- roasted42 has joined. 12:41:43 <|oren\> I am implementing greek mode for TTML, based partly on this image of the original space cadet keyboard layout: http://home.comcast.net/~mmcm/kbd/SpaceCadet3.jpeg 12:48:34 <|oren\> also from that image i now know where vi's bizarre ghjk arrows come from 12:48:57 |oren\: what... 12:49:18 <|oren\> what what? 12:49:37 vi has hjkl arrows, and they have no relation to APL keyboard layouts 12:50:26 hjkl was simply invented because it's four convenient neighbouring keys 12:50:42 [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41525&oldid=41505 * 94.225.138.121 * (+1017) /* Looks Like */ "Soviet Script" and "In Soviet Russia" merge YOU!!! 12:51:41 <|oren\> i see... well i don't use vi so i just knew it had some crazy layout... anyway why not ijkl? 12:52:18 <|oren\> that has the advantage that they are in the right configuration and all in a row in ASCII 12:52:29 -!- vanila has joined. 12:52:35 |oren\: as for that APL layout, it seems to be similar to the third image in http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/kybint.htm , which by the way you may want to consult if you want to see more crazy keyboard layouts 12:53:30 |oren\: it's not ijkl because it's more difficult to reach i than j and k, especially if you also want to press l soon after, and also, i is the perfect mnemonic for "insert", the most important command in vi 12:53:42 also, because of history 12:54:02 and of course i is also the best mnemoic for "inventory" 12:54:52 |oren\: just in case it's not clear, those arrows on that keyboard layout are printable symbols 12:55:20 specifically in APL, the left arrow stands for assignment (same as in smalltalk), the right arrow stands for goto, the up and down arrow stand for take and drop respectively 12:57:48 <|oren\> anyway v is an interesting choice for the ending sigma. i would have put it on c... 12:58:59 <|oren\> and i would put nu on v, and eta on n 12:59:41 <|oren\> so that the greek letters look sort of like their corresponding latin letters. 13:00:33 <|oren\> they seem to have gone with a pronounciation based layout instead 13:01:05 <|oren\> i wonder which is actually the best choice 13:03:59 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:05:41 -!- roasted42 has joined. 13:09:11 <|oren\> oh and i am also rerying my idea for a language with its own non-ascii-based, entirely original code page 13:09:56 <|oren\> like what if you could change latin to greek by flipping one bit? 13:10:27 <|oren\> and then change to cyrillic by flipping another one 13:19:00 I think I have seen that "hjkl" is due to some keyboard having those arrows on those letters (which they put there for the purpose of inventing vi)? Apparently also the escape was where the modern keyboard has a tab key? I don't know for sure. 13:20:10 Well, also their order is same as in Dance Dance Revolution and related games, I have noticed. If you play using a keyboard you might want to use "hjkl" if possible; same as vi even. 13:26:14 that suddenly made me interesting, DDR indeed uses the same order as vim's (and many others). 13:26:50 other combinations don't make much sense, but the choice between hjkl and hkjl seems not that arbitrary, with a strong preference to hjkl 13:37:46 zzo38: on the PC XT keyboard, escape is of course to the left of the 1, but vi is older than that 13:43:02 -!- boily has joined. 13:48:41 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:49:39 -!- roasted42 has joined. 13:51:35 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:12:24 -!- Guest66634 has changed nick to shikhin. 14:12:30 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 14:12:30 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:29:18 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:29:57 <|oren\> yesss... i will make a language with an alternate-universe code page 14:31:19 -!- roasted42 has joined. 14:32:37 -!- nys has joined. 14:37:57 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:48:27 * J_Arcane writes documentation. 15:02:48 Of all the things about Lisp, this is one that still strikes me as largely unnecessary: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/547436/whats-the-difference-between-eq-eql-equal-and-equalp-in-common-lisp 15:03:12 EQ is important for a fast pointer equality check 15:03:24 EQUAL is important to test equality of values 15:03:54 eql and equalp seem stupid 15:04:41 scheme having like ten equality procedures is annoying 15:04:47 especially the pointless type-specific ones 15:05:08 you really want pointer equality in a language with mutability though 15:05:15 <|oren\> how the hell do i type an å 15:05:18 like you're kind of screwed in terms of handling cyclic lists without it 15:05:57 <|oren\> mutability as default sucks tho 15:06:05 I didn't say as default 15:06:13 mutability does not suck 15:06:24 if you have mutability at all you need to be able to compare identifies of any object that acts as a mutable reference 15:07:03 <|oren\> elliott: true but any high level language should have mutability as like an advanced feature, not a basic one 15:07:34 okay well... that doesn't make sense since you can't really add mutability after the fact like that 15:07:39 unless you're talking about like... State or whatever 15:07:43 but it's also irrelevant to the point 15:07:53 *Haskell's Staet 15:07:54 http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_program_theorem this is low quality 15:07:56 *spelling 15:07:59 The structured program theorem is a theory in programming and computer science 15:08:04 it's a theorem, not a 'theory' 15:09:05 <|oren\> elliott: i was annoyed by the fact that the pointer equality is the shortest one. t should have a longer name and regular equality shoulf have a short one 15:09:17 it's shorter because it's faster 15:09:24 it's easier for the computer to process shorter names 15:09:24 |oren\, it's not important to huffman code variable names 15:09:37 -!- mitchs has joined. 15:09:39 actually I disagree :p 15:09:42 <|oren\> i kind of disagree 15:10:01 eq is O(2) because it has two letters 15:10:07 whereas equal is O(n) because it has more letters than I can count 15:10:12 <|oren\> the short variable names like x,i,etc should always be the localist var names 15:10:15 therefore eq is faster 15:10:23 <|oren\> *est 15:10:42 call-with-current-continuation is O(n^4) because there's four words 15:10:43 can someone help me about structured programming theorem? 15:13:23 <|oren\> what about it? doesn't it just say all you need to be turing complete is if and loops? 15:13:55 there's a claim that you need goto or labelled break/continue - otherwise programs can be made which are hard to turn into structured programs 15:13:58 what are those programs? 15:14:14 Kosaraju proved that a strict hierarchy of programs exists, nowadays called the Kosaraju hierarchy, in that for every integer n, there exists a program containing a multi-level break of depth n that cannot be rewritten as program with multi-level breaks of depth less than n 15:14:53 I actually don't have anything but eq? defined in Heresy. 15:15:17 <|oren\> but any break can be replaced with an extra variable 15:16:13 basically I need to read Sambasiva Rao Kosaraju paper 15:16:47 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=804055 oh cool it's on ACM, only $15 15:16:52 isn't science great! 15:18:42 What do the programs on the Kosaraju hierarchy look like? 15:22:43 I found an graph of the heirerarchy but not what the programs on it look like 15:23:11 I had thought that this structured programming stuff might make me think goto had some uses but it doesn't 15:26:59 <|oren\> goto has uses, it just isn't good when overused. any goto can be replaced with a boolean var and some extra conditions, 15:27:37 <|oren\> but this practice is generally more confusing than if you had just used a goto with a descriptive label 15:37:41 http://soclab.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~soclab/course/Milestones_in_SW_Evolution/2-2-CACM-Nov-1975-p629-ledgard.pdf] 15:37:42 http://soclab.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~soclab/course/Milestones_in_SW_Evolution/2-2-CACM-Nov-1975-p629-ledgard.pdf 15:37:43 kinda fun 15:37:47 all kinds of control structures 15:40:51 <|oren\> aha. so kosaraju's hierarchy apparently shows when you have to have a new boolean variable 15:47:42 <|oren\> the argument against knuth's use of goto on page 638 i find vacouous, because call is practically a goto, it simply provides a mechanism to goto back. 15:48:08 <|oren\> (in imperative languages that is) 15:48:29 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.14.537 lol 15:49:01 call? 15:49:03 i dont know 15:49:09 procedure cal? 15:49:20 <|oren\> yes that 15:49:36 thats not goto 15:49:58 <|oren\> it is a goto followed by a complex assigned goto 15:50:16 -!- roasted42 has joined. 15:50:20 <|oren\> return is a goto assigned by the caller 15:51:16 <|oren\> in BASIC calling a procedure is done with GOSUB command 15:53:28 <|oren\> anyway, procedure call was not among the control structures listed in the article 15:53:44 |oren\, if you only use sequencing, if/then/else while and procedure calls then each part of the program can be understood on its own piece by piece. When you use goto that is lost 15:55:37 <|oren\> that is true... when goto is used as in was in the 1970's 15:55:49 procedure calls may be implemented in terms of jumps but they are done in such a way that this property is preserved 15:55:59 <|oren\> when goto is used wisely it pervents confusion 15:56:18 i am skptical of that 15:56:53 <|oren\> would you rather keep track of how many nested loops use a boolean or simply ^F for the goto label 15:57:26 i dont know, this has never come up in my programming 16:00:14 <|oren\> Multiple nested loops that you have to break out of have never come up? 16:00:36 goto 16:02:04 <|oren\> well consider the following problem then: search a list of strings for a word, and either print the first sentence in which it appears or print "Does not appear." if you do not find one. 16:03:06 <|oren\> I maintain that the simplest, least confusing algorithm for this uses a goto or return from the innermost loop on success. 16:05:39 > let search _ [] = "Does not appear."; search w (s:ss) | w `isInfixOf` s = s | otherwise = search w ss in text $ search "hello" ["q", "the hello world", "r"] 16:05:40 the hello world 16:05:44 okay let me try 16:06:15 <|oren\> elliott: i was talking about imperative languages of course... lol 16:06:29 > let search = fromMaybe "Does not appear" . find . isInfixOf in text $ search "hello" ["q", "the hello world", "r"] 16:06:30 Couldn't match expected type ‘[[GHC.Types.Char]] 16:06:31 -> GHC.Base.String’ 16:06:31 with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’Couldn't match type ‘[[a]] ->... 16:06:32 oops 16:06:41 > let search w = fromMaybe "Does not appear" . find (w `isInfixOf`) in text $ search "hello" ["q", "the hello world", "r"] 16:06:42 the hello world 16:07:06 |oren\: but I like writing haskell code 16:07:10 well, I like writing haskell one-liners 16:08:03 find_word_index() { for(i = 0; i < length; i++) { if(contains_word(word, sentence[i])) { return i; } } return -1 } 16:08:03 program() { i = find_word_index(); if(i != -1) { print(sentence[i]); } else { print("Not found"); } } 16:08:41 vanila: to be fair, return breaks the same invariants as break 16:08:45 <|oren\> a return from the innermost loop, as i said. 16:08:58 (which isn't as bad as a goto, but dijkstra still isn't happy) 16:09:06 |oren\, okay, but this isnt' goto 16:09:14 (since you can't do the same proof about the contract of the loop) 16:09:45 elliott, what's that? 16:09:49 vanila: http://blog.plover.com/prog/Hoare-logic.html 16:09:57 that explains why dijkstra doesn't like goto/break 16:10:10 "I never read anything by Dijkstra that wasn't noticeably out of touch with the reality of programming" <- lol 16:10:16 yeah he never even coded 16:10:35 (the argument there applies to returning from a loop too since that's basically a break) 16:10:37 <|oren\> in structured programming the general assumption is that every procedure exits at the end 16:11:22 <|oren\> when they even have procedures, which or example brainfuck doesn't 16:11:40 yeah this is why brainfuck is so hard and awful to program in 16:11:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_program_theorem even links to P'' 16:11:53 vanila: so in this sense break/return is not nearly as bad as goto but it is still a concession away from structured programming 16:11:55 The construction was based on Böhm's programming language P′′. 16:11:57 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:12:27 because you can prove less using the structure, you cannot entirely understand each part of the program on its own like you said 16:13:30 (it reduces the compositionality of your hoare logic) 16:13:51 i see, that makes sense to me 16:14:40 I don't think omitting break and continue will make it easier to prove programs correct 16:15:05 I think it does (but it might make the programs harder to write in the first place) 16:15:12 (the same applies to goto, arguably) 16:15:13 -!- roasted42 has joined. 16:15:47 find_word_index() { found = None; for (i = 0; i < length && found.isNone(); i++) { found = search_sentence(sentence[i], word); } return found; } 16:15:51 ^ I think this isn't so bad 16:16:04 (assuming a None/Some maybe type) 16:17:13 it could be written recursively instead of for loop 16:17:16 of course { result = None; for (i = 0; i < length && result.isNone(); i++) { result = f(list[i]); } return result; } is precisely Haskell's find :p 16:17:30 *p(list[i]); 16:19:10 <|oren\> procedural programming languages of the era such as Fortran 66, often didn't allow recursion. 16:19:21 yeah you need scheme to write this recursively 16:19:49 algol did! 16:20:20 <|oren\> I have a book that my dad studied programming from. the examples are in fortran 66 and PL/I. might as well be greek and sanscrit. 16:20:44 <|oren\> actually that's not fair 16:21:00 <|oren\> PL/I is pretty readable if you know C 16:21:48 <|oren\> elliott: yeah but i dunno how many people actually used algol. 16:24:35 it was certainly relevant to people like dijkstra and knuth! 16:25:04 dijkstra implemented the algol compiler 16:25:10 -!- Prax has joined. 16:25:12 algol 68 is kind of incredible, it's like a language from the future but also the most 60s thing ever 16:25:22 hehe 16:25:27 and also kind of a total mess? 16:25:52 algol is to blame for bash's god-awful "esac" stuff 16:25:55 so I can never forgive it 16:29:43 <|oren\> comments with a weird slashed c which i've never even seen 16:30:03 you've never seen a cent sign? 16:30:10 aren't you american 16:30:27 <|oren\> a cent sign is a c with a vertical line. I'm from Canada 16:30:39 it would have actually looked more like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68#Example_of_different_program_representations 16:30:54 ¢ is a cent sign (and the comment character used there) 16:31:30 <|oren\> that is a c with a vertical line 16:31:59 so is the character there 16:32:11 I copied and pasted it. 16:32:15 <|oren\> hold on 16:32:27 I think algol 68 actually has "semantic bolding" 16:32:32 because you can name variables after keywords 16:32:35 because keywords are all bolded. 16:32:41 <|oren\> yeah. that is kinda nuts 16:32:57 <|oren\> but doable today because of the math extensions to unicode 16:33:00 oh right, and names with spaces in them I guess 16:33:05 the future 16:33:20 Can also be underlined. 16:33:52 the keywords or the names 16:34:15 I don't remember which way around, I just remember underlining to differentiate was also a thing. 16:34:18 Easier than bold when writing by hand. 16:34:29 <|oren\> http://snag.gy/Sc1dX.jpg <-- it might be a vagary of the font 16:35:25 <|oren\> yeah it is. me and my stupid japanese fonts 16:35:37 That's the screwiest font possible for "font-family: monospace, Courier". 16:36:18 <|oren\> Jiyucho Bold 16:37:10 what a cute monospaced font 16:37:24 bug report your title bar fonts are too normal 16:37:52 <|oren\> i'll see what i can do about that 16:37:57 |oren\: did you deliberately plant that video that looks like it might be "Disney Furry" or something 16:38:25 <|oren\> No i was listening to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYccun6GkDI 16:38:26 JPEG has not been kind to that red text. 16:38:58 oh, it's Eur, not Fur 16:39:22 very glad Disney Eurobeat CD 1 is a thing that exists, especially in how it implies the existence of future Disney Eurobeat CDs 16:39:26 *of further 16:39:34 <|oren\> There are 3 that i know of 16:40:18 scientists may yet discover more 16:40:21 <|oren\> they are actually made by real eurobeat artists 16:43:05 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:43:07 <|oren\> fizzie: wow, you're right, it's all blotchy. 16:43:52 fizzie: I don't know why Y'CbCr hurts red so much. 16:44:00 presumably something to do with fiddly human optics things. 16:44:08 but it's weird. 16:44:21 the periodic table of eurobeat CDs suggests that there are eight theoretically possible disney eurobeat CDs 16:44:41 though the remaining ones can only be observed for brief moments under laboratory conditions 16:45:36 <|oren\> he lives in you, he lives in me, he watches over, everything we see... into the water. into the truth. in your reflection. he lives in you. 16:45:37 nys: don't forget the "transition eurobeat CDs", which are compilations of partly disney, partly other eurobeat tracks 16:46:10 hee 16:49:04 vaporwave was long hypothesised to exist but only recently created in laboratories 16:51:00 elliott: I don't remember too much about the JPEG details. Maybe it's because the red and grey parts have more-or-less identical Y' values, so they're differentiated only by the color channels, and those are (often) downsampled. The other text also has the shape in the full-resolution luminance information. 16:51:26 fizzie: blue text generally fares better, I think 16:51:41 fizzie: you can see this in regular videos, too -- red stuff with edges just looks bad compared to everything else 16:51:47 it's always smudgier 16:53:54 http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1009.html dijkstra on goto again -- my version of that word search program is recognisable in the bounded linear search theorem here 16:54:16 What's weird is that if I wget the image, what I get is a PNG file with a .jpg extension. 16:55:24 ((0) and (1) are perfect examples of how much of an annoying dick he was, too :p) 16:55:34 (well, (0) especially) 16:55:45 (But it's still clearly been compressed with something very JPEGy (you can see the 8x8 blocks and the typical DCT artefacts) at some point of its history.) 16:56:01 (1) Rubin still starts indexing the rows and the columns at 1. I thought that by now professional programmers knew how much more preferable it is to let the natural numbers start at 0. I shall start indexing at 0. 16:56:02 lol 16:56:54 (2) rubin smells and is bad at programming 16:57:08 haha 16:58:10 http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd10xx/EWD1009.PDF his handwriting was so great 16:58:51 it's like he ran a typesetting program in his head 16:59:20 <|oren\> why the hell is bing now better than google 16:59:46 <|oren\> i guess because microsoft isn't taking everything down 17:00:12 I find it interesting that |oren\'s suggested goto-using problem was very comparable to the one posed back in 1968 17:00:44 Applying the above theorem twice yields for Rubin’s problem 17:00:45 does that mean 17:00:47 Applying the above theorem twice yields for Rubin’s program 17:01:30 that was a brutal takedown 17:01:35 he just derived the program like that 17:02:22 it means for Rubin's problem 17:02:33 Rubin stated a problem to defend the use of goto, Dijkstra derived a solution for it 17:02:38 http://joshuah.scripts.mit.edu/blog/?p=195 17:02:57 python doesn't have GOTO???? 17:03:17 it doesn't 17:03:30 Dijkstra's solution is basically just nesting (search p n = go 0 where go m | m == n = Nothing | p m = Just m | otherwise = go (m + 1)) 17:04:46 if only his pseudocode had included abstraction over control structures so he could have written (search (\i -> not (search (\j -> x!(i,j) == 0) n)) n) :p 17:04:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:05:08 uh that might need another ) in there somewhere 17:09:17 <|oren\> ok i am just going to swith my default serch to bing. google is officially over. 17:10:11 wouldn't duckduckgo be more your thing 17:11:00 it's the same results after all 17:11:11 (my interaction with duckduckgo consists of appending !g to every query because the ddg/bing results are useless) 17:11:42 <|oren\> in two cases today the top result on bing was what i wanted and google did not even list it 17:12:18 <|oren\> so google is over. it's just... over. I'm breaking up with google 17:12:32 (okay, not actually the exact same results) 17:12:45 (I guess ddg have started doing their own crawling too now) 17:13:07 have you tried to use the search engine made by the guy who wrote the elk cloner? 17:13:10 elliott: ddg take results from yandex quite a bit, IIRC 17:13:25 also they use the ais523 method of searching quite a bit (i.e. know in advance what website to look on) 17:13:45 e.g. if there's a Wikipedia article about your search term, and it has an official website link, they'll use that (possibly with checks to ensure it hasn't been edited recently, although I doubt it) 17:13:51 -!- S1 has joined. 17:14:01 vanila: blekko? no but I think ddg uses it or something 17:14:12 for the results it has in the top bar 17:25:28 <|oren\> anyway from my point of view it is completely unacceptable for google to refuse a Canadian access to links to a Russian website based on a law that only exists in America. 17:26:04 yeah it's completely unacceptable for google to follow laws in the country their servers are in 17:26:09 so that they don't get seized 17:26:13 fucking weird imo 17:26:25 it's almost like google is an american corporation or something 17:26:30 and has to follow american laws 17:26:43 <|oren\> well microsoft lists the russian websites 17:27:00 because nobody cares about bing enough to send DMCA notices to them 17:27:06 elliott: they also have to follow the laws in the country their headquarters are in 17:27:08 would you like me to? 17:27:09 Google should change the law. 17:27:12 Microsoft got in trouble over this recently 17:27:27 by refusing to give US law enforcement information on servers they controlled outside the US 17:27:36 not sure how the story ended or if it has yet 17:27:46 <|oren\> that is completely correct in my view 17:28:02 |oren\ is probably accessing US servers 17:28:09 at least I don't know google to have any servers in canada 17:28:27 <|oren\> it's cold here they could save on cooling 17:28:39 tbf Google probably have servers everywhere 17:28:49 in order to reduce latency 17:29:01 |oren\: do you think it's absurd that corporations in the US can't sell cocaine to people who live in countries where it's legal because selling cocaine is illegal in the US (let's ignore laws on possession, and the pointlessness of the war on drugs) 17:29:53 ais523: I don't think that's a given... for something like google search, investing in making huge data centeres everywhere doesn't make much sense 17:30:02 compared to picking a few hotspots for it 17:30:06 *centres 17:30:27 I don't think either method is necessarily going to be the better one on the information we have 17:30:44 well, we know about amazon's data centre distribution 17:31:10 <|oren\> elliott: the issue is that the US tries to apply its laws elsewhere, to the point of for example an american corporation seized an argintinean navy ship. 17:31:12 huh, that's weird, I just did "dig google.com" and a whois on the resulting address 17:31:17 and it was registered to YouTube 17:31:19 (http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/11/14/rare-peek-massive-scale-aws/ goes into some detail) 17:31:27 Google owns YouTube, but I think of YouTube as being part of Google rather than the other way round 17:31:36 |oren\: ok, but this has nothing to do with not giving you links that they are required by US law not to give you :P 17:32:34 IMO censoring information by censoring links to it doesn't really work anyway 17:33:20 |oren\: you'd have better luck with a canadian or russian search engine, really 17:33:32 then neither would have a sensible reason to deny access to the links, assuming they're legal in both canada and russia 17:34:58 <|oren\> isn't google.CA enough? apparently not. anyway i have been known to use baidu 17:35:04 it looks hard to censor information off the web 17:35:11 it is hard 17:35:14 i suppose the thing is, for the guys who have done this well - we do not know about it 17:35:27 although we hear a lot about china, I thinkt hey have a very successful set of methods 17:35:57 (mostly the social part, getting lower level web admins to help self-censor things so that they can continue to run their site without trouble) 17:36:13 but of course DPI and blocking a lot of things too 17:36:57 <|oren\> of course to use baidu properly you need to write in chinese (which is pretty much beyond my capabilities still) 17:37:32 <|oren\> so i use a translator 17:38:47 vanila: china do some fancy things with tor -- they actually talk the tor protocol to IPs to check whether they're tor relays 17:38:56 uh, maybe not relays. I forget the exact tor terminology. they use this for blocking tor, anyway 17:39:25 -!- MM_ has joined. 17:39:55 elliott: "exit node" and "middle node" is the main Tor terminology, I think 17:40:10 middle nodes are the ones you bounce off, exit nodes are where the traffic reaches the open internet 17:40:13 <|oren\> really i think a lot of the web is simply hidden by linguistic barriers 17:40:23 ive hard them called relays 17:40:26 (with everything but the source address unencrypted) 17:40:31 ais523: I forget what a relay is though 17:40:32 "relay" is a pretty decently descriptive term, though 17:40:33 maybe a middle node 17:40:49 <|oren\> i've never used tor or even bothered to read bout it 17:41:33 I don't use it, but I'm aware of it 17:41:38 I'm not sure china get much out of their internet censorship other than economically (cf. there being chinese versions of every internet thing) 17:41:44 which may be the whole point? 17:41:52 you pretty much have to be if you've ever needed to chase someone 17:42:01 -!- MM_ has quit (Client Quit). 17:42:01 elliott: well apparently, the main purpose is to stop people arranging public gatherings 17:42:04 like the one in Hong Kong 17:42:08 is that one still going, incidentally? 17:42:10 * ais523 looks it up 17:42:16 <|oren\> nah they broke it up 17:42:27 <|oren\> i read on Xinhua about that 17:42:33 -!- n00b7489 has joined. 17:42:51 * |oren\ regularly reads Xinhua, RT, BBC, and Fox News 17:47:24 -!- hjulle has joined. 17:49:24 Assuming a programming language doesn't have variable names or even memory addresses, but rather just a stack to push data on the top and retrieve then discard from the top, 17:53:09 pushdown automaton 17:53:22 they are not TC 17:53:39 ...I hope I just psychically answered your question :p 17:54:31 and it doesn't even have built-in multiply and divide, greater and less than, or any other advanced operations of any level built in, rather just the simple addition and subtraction of the top two values, and simple flow control by whether the top value is or isn't 0, 17:55:02 n00b7489: it can't be TC unless you have another data structure somewhere (another stack will do; sometimes you can use the call stack for that purpose, if the language has a callstack) 17:55:30 ais523: well, it could be if the elements are unbounded integers, depending 17:55:40 maybe we should wait for the end of the question though. 17:55:55 elliott: actually I don't think, e.g., BF-PDA is TC with unbounded integers 17:55:56 Is there a way to implement printing a value as decimal and other complex algorithms in that highly limited programming language? 17:56:12 ais523: well, you just need enough for fractran, right :p 17:56:49 elliott: fractran needs you to be able to handle two unbounded integers at once, unless you have modulo or the like 17:56:56 n00b7489: no, there isn't 17:57:09 ais523: well, okay, yes, I was assuming you had the necessary arithmetic 17:57:11 or, hmm 17:57:14 "addition and subtraction of the top two values" 17:57:21 there's a difference from normal 17:57:33 I think now it's possible, if you have unbounded integers 17:58:02 you can do multiply-by-constant, at least, which is /not/ true in BF-PDA 17:58:19 if you can do divrem-by-constant too, you can do fractran 17:58:47 n00b7489: I think this is very important: when you add/subtract the top two stack elements, where is the answer written? in particular, can you write the answer to the second stack element? 17:59:42 The addition and subtraction operations pop two values from the top and push the result on the top. 18:00:10 oh, hmm 18:00:12 that changes things a lot more 18:00:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:00:23 or you could just have a few operations that shuffle or copy or discard the top few stack elements, in any combinations but only to a limited max depth 18:01:09 in this case, there's obviously no way to move any information further from the bottom of the stack than it starts 18:01:35 that leads me to think sub-TC, but haven't quite proved it yet 18:01:47 well, maybe you can push 18:01:58 oh, I see 18:02:14 ais523: that's fine as long as you don't need the stack to be unbounded 18:02:26 in which case we're on our way to reformulating counter machines with stacks... 18:03:46 well in that case you only have one counter, right? because information can only flow in one direction 18:04:08 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:05:55 OK, clearly the stack is bounded in this case; you can never use information from lower on the stack, meaning that if the height on the stack is not constant for a given position in your program's control flow, you have an infinite loop 18:06:45 in this setting, it's possible to do a divide-modulo 18:06:52 trying to work out if it's possible to do a multiply-by-constant 18:07:14 I don't think it is 18:07:25 oh, no, you can't do a divide-modulo, just a modulo 18:07:27 yep, this is subTC 18:08:30 we don't even know exactly what control flow there is yet 18:13:32 I'm assuming "if zero then goto" 18:13:56 given that it's a hypothetical question, and that's as fully general as you can get given the restrictions 18:14:58 n00b7489, have you seen MNNBFSL 18:15:25 it has two stacks but its interesting 18:15:28 huh, that's a crazy "from" domain for spam: prison.gov.my 18:15:43 it was a "you have won the lottery, we are google" spam 18:15:47 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 18:16:15 ais523, I hope your spam anaysis goes into Casino Viagra 18:16:28 Oh congrats. I hope you use your winnings for good 18:17:04 I don't believe that if this had happened, Google would email me from a prison (presumably that's malaysia, haven't checked the country code but it isn't hugely relevant) 18:19:58 ais523: Well. Ban Ki-moon, the Secretary-General of the United Nations sends email from unitednationspayment101@gmail.com. 18:20:11 isn't .my myanmar 18:20:22 oh, could be 18:20:37 no, it's malaysia 18:20:39 this ruins my next joke: from the country's name, MburmYa 18:21:12 .mm from Burmma, there you go. 18:22:05 This is interesting piece of spam I don't think I've seen before. 18:22:12 "Below are few list of tracking numbers you can track from the UPS) Website (WWW.UPS.COM). To confirm beneficiaries like you who have received their payment successfully." 18:22:22 Then there's a list of 7 UPS tracking codes. 18:23:09 Sounds legit. Where do I send my money? 18:23:14 fizzie: that reminds me of the "we've won the lottery and want you to help us spend the money" scammers, some of them link to articles about people winning the lottery 18:23:17 I tested one, and it had indeed been delivered. So I guess that's confirmed. 18:23:21 presumably hoping that people will trust the from address 18:23:58 The "my late husband died and left me a lot of money" spams sometimes have links to Wikipedia articles about the people involved, or the high-profile plane crash or whatnot where they died. 18:24:25 I saw someone claim that they make the spam absurd so only the dumbest people will engage with them 18:26:36 I also went to a talk where they analyzed internet pharmaceutical spam and found it was very reliable with excellent customer service. The thing was that it's hard to get a merchant credit card account so they can't afford getting complaints 18:26:49 This one also says that any delay in responding will cause UN to use the $4,900,000 they've earmarked for me to "help the people who have been displaced in Darfur, Sudan Africa which you can see it in this site www.savedarfur.org and the Tsunami's victims in Asia." 18:27:31 Wow, that one's really selecting for a special kind of human 18:27:41 I guess I'm doing a good thing in not replying. 18:28:20 You can probably write that 5m$ on your taxes 18:28:29 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:28:37 <|oren\> glguy: the same type of human who worships ebola-chan 18:28:51 -!- shikhout has changed nick to Guest222. 18:31:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:32:37 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:33:33 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:33:55 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest26838. 18:35:53 -!- Guest222 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:38:38 -!- shikhout_ has joined. 18:39:40 -!- Guest26838 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:43:34 -!- shikhout_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:48:51 -!- shikhout_ has joined. 18:52:37 * J_Arcane debates if he should deviate from BASIC syntax for the left$ and right$ functions. 18:53:54 -!- shikhout1 has joined. 18:54:14 what are they 18:55:56 Well, the standard forms take the leftmost or rightmost X number of characters. 18:56:22 It seems like just taking the left or right half from index X instead would be more useful (it sure would've made my string-slice easier to write). 18:56:23 -!- shikhout_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:57:01 J_Arcane: the lefts are equivalent there 18:57:05 it's just the rights that differ 18:57:08 It also makes more sense to me: left$ essentially does this already, but right$ thus doesn't, so you get the actual right half from X, you have to either use mid$ or slice. 18:57:30 ais523: Exactly. It bugs me, because they seem like they should be opposite in a different way, you know? 18:58:03 do you support negative indices 18:58:15 you could write a split$ function 18:58:21 > splitAt 3 "hi there!" 18:58:23 ("hi ","there!") 18:58:27 > splitAt (-2) "hi there!" -- not so much... 18:58:28 ("","hi there!") 18:59:49 -!- shikhout1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:00:01 actually, at the moment I think a negative index would probably just result in some kind of horrible error. 19:00:35 And I suppose it's moot in a sense because I do *have* slice and mid, and they can easily be used for that instead of left and right. 19:05:37 I'm now struck with a desire to overhaul my slice function ... 19:06:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNINTERRUPTIBLE CHICKEN). 19:09:29 -!- shikhout_ has joined. 19:27:46 -!- n00b7489 has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:28:14 aww, this no longer works in ldmud: string s = "foo"; s[3..0] = "bar"; write(s); ===> foobarfoo 19:37:28 -!- shikhout_ has changed nick to shikhin. 19:37:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 19:37:33 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:44:31 def rsa_encrypt(key, element): 19:44:31 assert isinstance(element, (long, int)), type(element) 19:44:32 _element = mpz(element) 19:44:32 return long(pow(_element, key.e, key.n)) 19:44:32 def rsa_decrypt(key, cipher): 19:44:34 assert isinstance(cipher, long), type(cipher) 19:44:36 _cipher = mpz(cipher) 19:44:39 return long(pow(_cipher, key.d, key.n)) 19:44:41 this is like crypto slapstick 19:45:17 you're meant to just implement the equations directly using GMP, right? without padding or blinding or anything? 19:46:03 (no, not from pedagogic RSA-explaining code; https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2014-December/007999.html) 19:47:18 I dont know any better 19:48:43 hopefully you're not marketing your supposedly secure software like http://www.tribler.org/ <_< 19:49:03 if i was to implement RSA I would probably do better than these guys 19:49:17 but right now I don't knwo whats wrong with that code 19:49:49 e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_(cryptosystem)#Padding and the next section 19:50:15 (the "Timing attacks" section mentions blinding) 19:50:29 I like how their CSPRNG is mersenne twister 19:50:47 I know that mersenne twister is cryptographicaly secure 19:50:50 is NOT*** 19:50:53 god damn it lol 19:51:13 elliott: so many people try to use the Mersenne Twister as a CSPRNG, it's depressing 19:51:27 In cryptography, Optimal Asymmetric Encryption Padding (OAEP) is a padding scheme often used together with RSA encryption. 19:51:31 although one bit of good news is, almost everyone seeds it with a 32-bit seed even though it has much more internal state than that 19:51:32 ais523: and they seed it with 32 bytes of entropy or less 19:51:42 padding attacks and stuff is kind of advanced 19:51:44 or arguably bad news 19:51:54 thats no tthe sort of thing you'd learn without trying 19:51:54 this means that a mersenne twister can be easy to reverse just by brute force 19:52:19 vanila: trying is one thing -- this is I think grant-funded research that has a snazzy site marketing it as secure and anonymous to ordinary people 19:52:29 (I'd hope any course about crypto would teach about padding or such though!) 19:52:46 ais523: yes. hopefully they'll fix this in future standards, but currently in C++11 you need like four lines of code of cargo cult magic to seed the mersenne twister properly with more than just 32 bits of entropy 19:53:10 and even then you have to give an explicit amount of entropy to seed with, and you just have to make that number up 19:53:23 no wait, maybe not that 19:53:24 `pbflist 19:53:25 but something close 19:53:30 :( 19:53:32 pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion 19:54:53 elliott, Well I hope people will start to learn that you cannot pay for security 19:55:06 you can't buy a "NSA Proof phone" or whatever the fuck they are selling today 19:55:24 maybe once people learn that they will actually bother to learn how to use RSA for emails 19:55:45 (just kidding, I know that will never happen - people just want to throw money around and pretend it will solve everything) 19:55:48 PGP is nigh-unusable, to be honest 19:55:53 I have used it 19:55:54 its fine 19:56:00 it's something like std::array ent; std::random_device dev; for (unsigned &w : ent) w = dev(); std::mt19937_64 rns(seed_seq(ent.begin(), end.end())); 19:56:09 I find it unbearable and I'm as nerdy as its designers. 19:56:19 it's riddiculous, why do I have to learn such magic incantations to seed my rng?\ 19:56:20 the real problem with PGP is that you need someone ELSE to use it too 19:56:30 thats why i never took off 19:56:31 I like the work https://whispersystems.org/ is doing with more-usable strong crypto. 19:56:33 it* 19:56:51 I don't know if whispersystems.org is free/open source? 19:56:56 yes, it is 19:57:00 and they publish their designs 19:57:01 I think the guy behind it moxie did release some tools before that are not free 19:57:06 like redphone or something 19:57:14 that's kind of annoying to me 19:57:19 thayt's good they're doing better now 19:57:21 e.g., https://whispersystems.org/blog/advanced-ratcheting/ 19:57:57 in fact they recently worked with WhatsApp and deployed that to all WhatsApp users... not sure how key verification works if it works at all but that's still kind of amazing that they gave every user of one of the biggest messaging platforms in the world state-of-the-art encryption overnight 19:58:33 elliott: linear algebra is hard, they couldn't figure it out, so the NSA won't either ;-) 19:58:36 (it would be sad if the owners of WhatsApp could MITM the keys -- not sure if that's the case or exactly how they implemented it -- better than nothing though) 19:59:25 vanila: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/RedPhone, at least (not saying it was necessarily released when the binaries were) 20:00:49 wow ok I might just have this all totally wrong 20:00:52 that's cool! 20:01:29 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:17:57 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to GeekAfk. 20:21:15 elliott, do you know crypotl? 20:21:17 cryptol 20:21:29 I know of it, and one or two vague things about it 20:21:31 nothing more 20:21:37 there's a free open source implementation now 20:21:58 cool 20:23:43 its really good 20:28:43 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:39:53 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:46:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:47:25 -!- |oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:48:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:50:45 -!- boily has joined. 21:04:54 my dr gave me some cryptol last week 21:05:33 newsham, you should try it out! 21:05:38 i bet you will like it 21:05:52 http://cryptol.net/ 21:07:07 is the free/open one not the galois one? 21:07:36 its still galois 21:07:49 it doesn't emit VHDL and stuff anymore 21:39:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:02:21 -!- MoALTz has joined. 22:37:17 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 22:37:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SUBLIMATED CHICKEN). 22:41:26 -!- Solace has joined. 22:43:27 -!- GeekAfk has changed nick to GeekDue. 22:43:29 -!- GeekDue has changed nick to GeekDude. 22:45:09 J_Arcane: thats very scary 22:47:09 So is that just on the flashdrive or is it remote access? 23:07:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:11:10 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:15:06 `echo hi 23:15:07 hi 23:15:38 HackEgo up, codu.org down. it's a mystery. 23:17:10 you ever like a song, and then find out the lyrics and they are kind of worrying? <-- reminds me of the time i considered learning the lyrics to Stenka Razin 23:17:21 (still considering) 23:17:49 wat, oren not here, that's unnatural 23:22:06 * oerjan checks out oren's youtube link and feels the generation gap widening 23:22:47 my general noise sensitivity isn't helping with that either. 23:24:16 argh now i'm starting to notice the ventilation system again 23:36:36 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:39:48 -!- roasted42 has joined. 23:45:29 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:46:28 -!- MDude has joined. 23:49:42 -!- roasted42 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:57:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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