00:05:28 <Vorpal> What good build server solutions are there?
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00:16:40 <Vorpal> Deewiant, you never test kt :/
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00:31:54 <Vorpal> @tell Deewiant What should 2kt (ip going right) do if both calls to t fail? Should the IP be reversed once then k aborted or should it be reversed twice (thus spawning no child but in effect not reversing the thread either).
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01:14:05 <Vorpal> @tell fizzie That s wrapping bug is also fixed now. I don't remember if you found any other bug.
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03:28:20 <zzo38> I am working on making a game with OHRRPGCE, but it has problems so when I make the sequel probably I will use SQL instead (SQL is also sometimes called "sequel", but that has nothing to do with it).
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03:47:35 <zzo38> This book my sister gave me for Christmas present has its own symbols for musical intervals which I have not seen elsewhere; a circle means a perfect unison, a square means a perfect fourth, a triangle means a major third, four circles joined together means augmented fourth, etc.
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04:29:02 <zzo38> This book also uses glyphs for planets, which I have not seen elsewhere, too.
04:30:10 <newsham> it's hip to be a perfect fourth
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05:16:42 <Solace> guys its a w+ln(|N|))=ln(|ap^2H+e^ar|)+ln(|y|) :0
05:23:53 <zzo38> It is not quite yet the new year, it is soon
05:24:11 <zzo38> And then after that it will soon be Epiphany (the end of the Christmas season)
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06:58:04 <oerjan> (i see a blank square)
06:59:42 <Jafet> > fix $ printf "HYPHEN%sMINUS"
06:59:43 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0)
06:59:43 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘M50235812057197137065544.show_M50235812057197137065...
06:59:43 <lambdabot> The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous
06:59:54 <Jafet> > text $ fix $ printf "HYPHEN%sMINUS"
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07:06:38 <oerjan> > var $ fix $ printf "HYPHEN%sMINUS"
07:06:39 <lambdabot> HYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPHENHYPH...
07:06:56 <oerjan> (text is strict in the whole string passed)
07:09:07 <oerjan> or at least its spine, it's part of a text formatting system so needs to know the width.
07:09:48 <oerjan> > take 50 . text $ ['A'..'z'] ++ repeat 50 undefined
07:09:49 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type ‘Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ.Doc’ with ‘[a]’
07:09:49 <lambdabot> Expected type: GHC.Base.String -> [a]
07:09:49 <lambdabot> Actual type: GHC.Base.String -> Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ.DocCouldn't matc...
07:10:12 <oerjan> > take 50 . show . text $ ['A'..'z'] ++ repeat 50 undefined
07:10:13 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘t0 -> [GHC.Types.Char]’
07:10:38 <oerjan> > take 50 . show . text $ ['A'..'z'] ++ replicate 50 undefined
07:10:40 <lambdabot> "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqr"
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07:13:01 <Deewiant> Vorpal: dieharder isn't that slow but that Befunge RNG is :-P cfunge manages around 370 KiB/s on this box (vs. e.g. 'cat /dev/urandom' doing 17 MiB/s)
07:15:34 <Deewiant> Vorpal: Re. kt, rule of thumb: k doesn't special-case things. If your k works and your t works, whatever happens happens, the double-reverse sounds right. I hope Mycology tests k enough these days that it passes only the "obvious" non-special-casing implementation or something hopefully-obviously overcomplicated. (Rule of thumb to Funge-98 programmers: don't use k on instructions that might fail. Also don't
07:15:36 <Deewiant> use kt because nobody wants to deal with that.)
07:16:27 <oerjan> don't cross the kt boundary
07:16:39 <elliott> Deewiant: what does t do again?
07:17:42 <oerjan> oh, new golfing problem
07:18:06 <oerjan> (it's the cp boundary these days, i hear)
07:18:13 <oerjan> (you shouldn't cross that either)
07:18:31 <Deewiant> Boundaries are generally meant to not be crossed, otherwise they wouldn't be there
07:18:31 <oerjan> (ok so it's actually K-Pg)
07:19:46 <oerjan> Jafet: it's only simple text layout formatting, i think it has no idea about unicode... note that it didn't even look at the undefined characters above
07:19:50 <Jafet> Don't cross the pg boundary either
07:21:23 <oerjan> it's mainly just for indentation and side-by-side stuff, last i checked it didn't even have a combinator for a rectangular table.
07:22:33 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘GHC.Base.String
07:22:57 * oerjan did that to make it display the module name
07:23:14 * oerjan discovers you cannot do /me inside parentheses
07:24:01 <Deewiant> Time to rally for CTCP PARENTHETICAL_ACTION
07:26:10 <Jafet> What is (*elliott this)
07:26:48 <elliott> <CTCP>ACTION hopes your client actually supports this<CTCP> -- it's such a beautiful mess!
07:28:22 <Jafet> As opposed to ugly messes, like mirc colours
07:33:15 <zzo38> My client displays all of those things; it won't display mIRC colors though
07:35:54 <Solace> ( 67 , 88 ) 7.00 ( 86 , 6 ) I think my server is gonna die
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07:57:50 <oerjan> elliott: i think zzo38's client is the only one which does.
07:58:05 <elliott> yeah I guess Jafet was joking :p
07:58:50 <oerjan> yay i got a golfing solution in first
07:59:01 <oerjan> now to wait to see it thrashed
08:01:42 <Jafet> African dictator of the hill
08:12:56 <oerjan> NOOOO i was just going to submit a 102
08:15:21 <oerjan> bah fixing that made it 103 instead
08:15:36 <oerjan> (really stupid, mistyped <- as -)
08:16:26 <oerjan> int-e: AAAAAAAA not cheating, i presume?
08:16:41 <oerjan> oh well i did predict thrashing
08:17:08 <Taneb> My sinuses are in poor condition right now
08:17:35 <int-e> oerjan: not cheating. would I ever?!
08:17:44 <oerjan> Taneb: we're golfing here, please don't go on tangents.
08:18:11 <oerjan> although 73 is too short to be cheating on this, i think
08:19:50 <oerjan> i guess this means a completely different algorithm is called for.
08:20:06 <oerjan> i didn't even have any guard splits this time!
08:23:12 <oerjan> hm despite length you somehow have more symbols than me
08:23:56 <oerjan> i suppose because i used several alphanum builtin functions
08:25:29 <oerjan> maximum and zipWith are pretty long
08:30:33 <int-e> well, you did ask to be trashed, I was happy to oblige ;)
08:38:13 <int-e> but now afraid of henkma
08:40:22 <Solace> is there any site where I can make a .edu student email
08:40:28 <Solace> or are they just assigned
08:42:32 <elliott> you have to be a student first...
08:44:16 <Solace> This is what I've been.trying to tell this guy
08:45:07 <Solace> some guy who wants a java ide session
08:45:23 <Solace> I've been telling him...
08:45:29 <Solace> I think he's trolling me
08:47:02 <oerjan> there was a time when you could have reached me via oerjan@nuts.edu
08:48:13 <oerjan> our university's (which is not in the us) computer club (of which i'm still a member and through i'm currently irc'ing) managed to get it assigned to them
08:49:26 <oerjan> this happened after someone noted that the obvious english translation of our newly reorganized university's new name was Norwegian University of Technology and Science
08:50:09 <Jafet> Hmm, they do have ntnu.edu.
08:50:12 <oerjan> they then wisely chose to make the official translation Science and Technology instead.
08:50:33 <oerjan> Jafet: don't you mean ntnu.no
08:50:46 <Solace> you've been through a lot of code before I'm guessing oerjan
08:51:19 <oerjan> but not before our computer club (actually one of two, the two merged parts of the university had different ones which still survive) grabbed it
08:51:30 <oerjan> Jafet: whois claims it doesn't exist...
08:52:11 <Jafet> What's the registration authority for .edu?
08:52:23 <oerjan> Jafet: that would probably be something the whole university got, though
08:52:34 <oerjan> the main domain is ntnu.no
08:52:55 <oerjan> getaddrinfo(whois.educause.edu): No address associated with hostname
08:53:22 <oerjan> Jafet: i think back then at least, it wasn't officially us-restricted
08:53:58 <Solace> its like a very non violent place
08:54:31 <Solace> its almost as if its the...
08:54:33 <oerjan> Jafet: oh wait it was just an intermittent whois failure, found it now
08:54:49 <oerjan> norway is also rather nonviolent
08:54:51 <Jafet> Heh, the .edu registrar has a list of suspended domains at https://net.educause.edu/edudomain/delinquent.asp
08:55:26 <Solace> Is the norwegian language easy to learn?
08:55:50 <Solace> coming from English speaking countries
08:56:05 <oerjan> Solace: well it's related to english, and has easier spelling...
08:56:13 <oerjan> although we do have genders
08:56:43 <Solace> what do genders have to with language ?
08:57:07 <oerjan> Solace: um you don't know any languages with grammatical gender?
08:57:08 <Solace> Also do you have to roll r's in Norwegian?
08:57:32 <Solace> I cannot do that even if I was about to get murdered
08:57:52 <Solace> mind you the mind is very powerful?
08:58:02 <oerjan> Solace: if you learn to speak "normalized eastern norwegian", then you have to roll rs. but in western dialects you can use an uvular r instead
08:58:40 <oerjan> dialects are btw as i've mentioned before a major challenge when using norwegian in practice
08:59:11 <oerjan> because for strange historical reasons, we're one of the few nations in the world that _don't_ normalize our speech
08:59:22 <Solace> everytime I try and roll an r
08:59:28 <Solace> it comes out as whoosh
08:59:38 <oerjan> Solace: just be glad you're not learning czech hth
08:59:53 <Solace> ill just learn Japanese
08:59:53 <oerjan> (r hacek, one of the hardest sounds in the world)
09:00:37 <Solace> fuck I'm such a failure at noises
09:00:55 * Solace is trying to roll an r atm
09:02:18 <oerjan> i assume by throat r you mean what i called uvular above
09:02:25 <Solace> I think everytime I try I kinda stop breathing out of my mouth and then out my nose
09:02:46 <Solace> or just stop breathing
09:03:43 <Solace> nope I can't roll an r
09:04:53 <Solace> wait does it really make a difference if I use and English r?
09:05:06 <oerjan> just learn the bergen dialect. no r rolling and one less gender than everyone else
09:05:15 <oerjan> Solace: you'll probably be understood
09:05:42 <oerjan> (also the dialect of our prime minister)
09:06:58 <Solace> I made a recall thing for my bot that lets me bring back certain things and sentences people have said if I state a month and channel
09:07:13 <Solace> without breaking my irc
09:07:59 <oerjan> on the flip side, sweden is a lot easier to get into than norway. although this is slowly dooming their government to collapse as the anti-immigration party gets steadily stronger, so probably won't last many more years.
09:08:37 <Solace> Why is Norway hard to get into?
09:09:00 <oerjan> it's not that norway is so hard, it's that sweden is unusually easy.
09:09:13 <Solace> do you want to keep that whole no war forever and ever title forever?
09:09:21 <oerjan> for a european country
09:10:16 <int-e> not engaging in wars does sound like an excellent plan
09:10:26 <oerjan> the idea that norway is peaceful is looking more and more like a myth and hypocritical
09:11:21 <lambdabot> LOWI 310850Z VRB01KT 3000 -SN BR FEW005 SCT010 BKN035 M02/M02 Q1032 R08/49//95 NOSIG
09:11:49 <oerjan> it broke down with the kosovo war in the 90s, and since then we've been involved militarily in iraq, afghanistan and libya.
09:12:22 <oerjan> also we have a very big weapon industry for our size
09:12:59 <oerjan> the politicians still get flack for trying to avoid the word "war", though
09:13:03 <int-e> oh good, it's supposed to stay below 0C
09:13:15 <lambdabot> ENVA 310850Z 30009KT 9999 VCSH FEW025 SCT041 BKN098 07/04 Q1014 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 28014KT
09:13:36 <oerjan> i think most of the snow and ice has washed away by now
09:14:01 <int-e> here it's snowed quite a bit tonight
09:16:12 <oerjan> monday was very slippery
09:16:35 <oerjan> then they put on gravel
09:17:31 <Solace> Is it bad if I just imagined you slipping around
09:17:50 <oerjan> no, although i managed to avoid falling
09:18:07 <Solace> I think ny heater vent is broken
09:19:12 <oerjan> last end of summer it the heating was broken here. thankfully it got fixed before it got really cold.
09:22:56 <lambdabot> EFHK 310850Z 28009KT 9999 BKN007 04/02 Q1008 NOSIG
09:23:02 <fizzie> It was M20 last time I did that.
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12:08:03 <oerjan> Vorpal: http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Kimariji
12:08:03 <int-e> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Kimariji
12:08:24 <oerjan> still 17 characters to beat
12:10:01 <oerjan> still need yet another algorithm
12:13:05 <myname> that is a neat problem
12:21:38 <oerjan> oops, filtering an infinite list to find the length of the result doesn't work
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12:52:07 <olsner> int-e: it might be nice if @metar remembered what you metared last
12:52:43 <olsner> ooh, and @metar <nick> could give you what they metared last (assuming it's their local airport)
12:53:02 <lambdabot> EGNT 311220Z VRB01KT 9999 FEW025 08/04 Q1023
12:54:19 <lambdabot> ESSL 311220Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999NDV FEW110/// 05/03 Q1018 R29/19//95
12:56:04 <int-e> olsner: I'm not convinced; for your own use, you could just make an alias in your client.
12:58:25 <olsner> I can just never remember what my ICAO code is
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13:16:59 <Jafet> linux manual for readdir_r:
13:16:59 <Jafet> name_max = pathconf(dirpath, _PC_NAME_MAX);
13:16:59 <Jafet> if (name_max == -1) /* Limit not defined, or error */
13:16:59 <Jafet> name_max = 255; /* Take a guess */
13:16:59 <Jafet> len = offsetof(struct dirent, d_name) + name_max + 1;
13:17:00 <Jafet> entryp = malloc(len);
13:18:24 <myname> i want to put -2 in there
13:20:19 <int-e> waaaait a second...
13:21:23 <int-e> This is all wrong. "_PC_NAME_MAX: returns the maximum length of a filename in the directory path or fd that the process is allowed to *create*" with an explicit note stating " Files with name lengths longer than the value returned for name equal to _PC_NAME_MAX may *exist* in the given directory." (emphasis mine)
13:22:28 <myname> how do they get there?
13:24:44 <Jafet> In the same vein, ntfs-3g can create filenames that Windows refuses to open or remove.
13:24:48 <int-e> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/readdir_r.html states "Either the {NAME_MAX} compile-time constant or the corresponding pathconf() option can be used to determine the maximum sizes of returned pathnames."
13:25:32 <Jafet> linux manual for pathconf: "Some returned values may be huge; they are not suitable for allocating memory."
13:29:37 <elliott> hurd defines the path maxmimum things to like some ridiculously huge value I think
13:29:54 <elliott> like max 32-bit value or something
13:29:56 <Jafet> Good thing no one uses it, then
13:31:10 <int-e> http://elliotth.blogspot.co.at/2012/10/how-not-to-use-readdirr3.html suggests to just use readdir()
13:31:22 <elliott> int-e: that guy's name really fucks with me
13:31:36 <elliott> I see it every now and then and I'm like b-buh???
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13:34:24 <Jafet> int-e: nice, there's a race too
13:34:26 <int-e> and http://womble.decadent.org.uk/readdir_r-advisory.html points out that the suggested usage, even if the returned limit is safe, has race conditions
13:35:02 <int-e> So it's really just a horrible API.
13:36:06 <Jafet> The academic community prefers "racy" hth
13:36:14 <int-e> and unfortunately, "The readdir() function need not be reentrant. A function that is not required to be reentrant is not required to be thread-safe."
13:36:40 <oerjan> who needs to readd irs, anyway
13:37:57 <oerjan> good, that b was far too out of date
13:38:58 <int-e> the name is really original, but it updates the database of for "locate" (which personally, I use a lot)
13:39:28 <Jafet> There are irs up tedb?
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14:36:58 <J_Arcane> O_o Haskell on the JVM: https://github.com/Frege/frege
14:39:38 <myname> yeah, still no aur package
14:42:38 <Jafet> `cc char buf[9]; printf("%d", sscanf("", "[]", buf));
14:42:43 <HackEgo> /tmp/a.c:1:21: error: expected declaration specifiers or ‘...’ before string constant \ /tmp/a.c:1:27: error: unknown type name ‘sscanf’
14:43:11 <Jafet> `cc int main(void) { char buf[9]; printf("%d", sscanf("", "[]", buf)); return 0; }
14:43:15 <HackEgo> /tmp/a.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/a.c:1:31: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function ‘printf’ [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c:1:44: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function ‘sscanf’ [enabled by default] \ -1
14:44:06 <Jafet> `cc #include <stdio.h> \ int main(void) { char buf[9]; printf("%d", sscanf("", "[]", buf)); return 0; }
14:44:06 <HackEgo> /tmp/a.c:1:20: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive [enabled by default] \ /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/../../../x86_64-linux-gnu/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
14:45:15 <oerjan> it's a substitution done by the command itself, not related to HackEgo's normal output
14:45:29 <Jafet> `` function f { echo "$@" }; f "a\nb"
14:45:29 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
14:46:25 <Jafet> `` function f() { echo "$@"; }; f "a\nb"
14:46:35 <oerjan> Jafet: the `cc command, that is.
14:46:43 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ echo "$@" > /tmp/a.c && gcc /tmp/a.c -o /tmp/a.out && /tmp/a.out
14:48:10 <Jafet> `` bash -c 'echo "$@"' 'a\nb'
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14:48:48 <Jafet> `` f() { echo "$@"; }; f 'a\nb'
14:49:11 <Jafet> `` sh -c 'f() { echo "$@"; }; f '\''a\nb'\'''
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15:13:14 <lambdabot> CYQB 311500Z 26011KT 15SM FEW013 FEW030 M17/M21 A3018 RMK SF1SC1 SLP229
15:14:27 <oerjan> boily: you need to change your name to freezy hth
15:20:20 <lambdabot> ENVA 311450Z 10006KT 9999 FEW001 BKN085 03/03 Q1011 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 21010KT
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15:20:55 <oerjan> and here all the snow is washing away
15:21:37 <boily> we had our snowmelt happen just before christmas, then everything went down. mainly temperatures.
15:25:02 <fizzie> We got all the snow just a day or three before Christmas, and now it's going. It's like someone ordered a white Christmas, but nothing more than that.
15:25:09 <boily> one benefit of a solid M17 outside is that cold tap water is very cold. nothing like a refreshing scottish shower ^^
15:25:38 <fizzie> http://outside.aalto.fi/img/temp.month.png like that
15:25:45 <boily> oerjan: AAAAAAAAA?
15:26:27 * oerjan does not want scottish showers
15:27:52 <boily> I usually can't get them at home because of... hmm... peculiarities with the unusual tap, but when I'm at my parents, aaaaaah :)
15:28:39 <boily> (ah! apparently the Finns have “avantouinti”.)
15:30:52 <oerjan> i've read that trondheim has a sea bathing society which also is open during winter
15:33:10 <oerjan> found a brief youtube video (not winter afaict) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-i_ZLL-_80
15:33:40 <oerjan> oh this is winter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20dtoVoHppY
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15:40:02 <boily> Ils sont fous ces Norvégiens...
15:41:06 <oerjan> i heard a mention of 1.5 celsius water temperature
15:41:25 <boily> I heard people talking. mine eyes glazeth over very much...
15:41:35 * boily should study germanic languages more...
15:43:47 <boily> shachar tahara'im tovim.
15:45:01 * shachaf tries to figure out whether that's a pun or a mistake
15:46:17 <boily> I portmanteaued to the best of my ability >_>'...
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15:47:48 <shachaf> also portmanteaus are v. popular in hebrew
15:48:00 <shachaf> but i'm not sure what you were going for there
15:48:32 <boily> well, http://omniglot.com/language/phrases/hebrew.php lists the aforementioned phrase as “good afternoon”, and I tried to esthetically merge shachaf into it.
15:50:08 <shachaf> It's not actually afternoon.
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15:51:21 <oerjan> the Dawn of the Seagull
15:51:44 <oerjan> this year's big eco-horror movie
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16:21:44 <oerjan> not much of that here yet
16:22:01 <fizzie> Well, our laws allow them from 18:00, and it's 18:21 here now.
16:22:08 <fizzie> oerjan: Also, ice swimming is a real big tradition in Finland.
16:22:24 * Melvar has decided he needs to read this disassembly …
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16:23:56 <shachaf> Learn how to read x86_64 generated code?
16:24:49 <J_Arcane> fizzie: yup, the explosions have begun here as well.
16:25:14 <Melvar> I mean, my proximal problem is, what do the parens mean exactly.
16:25:31 <Melvar> Wow that sentence was broken.
16:26:04 <shachaf> If you're using GNU tools it's probably AT&T syntax.
16:26:07 <Melvar> It has % on the registers.
16:26:14 <shachaf> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/X86_Assembly/GAS_Syntax
16:26:39 <shachaf> Parentheses mean dereference, e.g. (%rax) means something like "*rax" in C.
16:26:54 <shachaf> But there are a bunch of extra syntax bits.
16:27:19 <shachaf> I guess that page explains it.
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16:28:30 <oerjan> it appears that the official children fireworks will be at 7 pm
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16:29:29 <fizzie> disp(%base,%index,scale) is (in pseudo-C) *(%base + scale*%index + disp), where scale is one of 1, 2, 4, 8, %base and %index are registers, and disp is an immediate displacement.
16:30:13 <shachaf> Yes, I was going to type what fizzie typed but then I saw that the page I linked to said the same thing.
16:30:14 <oerjan> trondheim has an official firework
16:30:39 <shachaf> If you write simple C code you can read the x86 that your favorite compiler turns it into.
16:31:42 <tromp_> if it's really simple you can jit-compile it with https://github.com/EarlGray/c4
16:31:51 <oerjan> (there's also a bigger one at midnight, of course)
16:34:05 <Melvar> Hrmf, garbage pointer? Though this test looks weird …
16:34:13 <oerjan> they started having that after they outlawed private fireworks in the city center
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16:38:49 <Melvar> Nope, the test is fine, must be a garbage pointer …
16:38:56 <fizzie> oerjan: Is it like the kind of thing where you strap a baby to a rocket and fire it up?
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16:52:01 <oerjan> fizzie: i dunno i have never seen it close up hth
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16:53:51 <shachaf> oerjan: if fireworks are outlawed only outlaws will have fireworks hth
16:55:40 <oerjan> shachaf: i take it you are referring to the recent wave of arson in trondheim tdnh
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16:56:57 <shachaf> i wasn't aware of that wave sfnh
16:58:04 <oerjan> one of the most stylish old pubs in the city got burned down :(
16:58:55 <oerjan> ("old", it was from the 50s or 60s or thereabouts)
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17:12:28 <fizzie> Your fires were mentioned in the Finnish news.
17:12:43 <fizzie> We're a bit closer, admittedly.
17:13:02 <shachaf> Finnish news? Isn't that a song by Noël Coward?
17:15:16 <shachaf> I've been informed that Norwegian pizza is the best.
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17:16:11 <oerjan> at least they caught the pub arsonist, he was lurking around before and the neighbors spotted him
17:16:54 <oerjan> but it's not clear whether they got the one in the suburbs
17:19:26 * boily fears a lutefisk pizza
17:19:51 <oerjan> i haven't heard of that, i think
17:20:08 <oerjan> my dad in youngers tried to serve me both fish pizza and brunost pizza, though
17:20:23 <oerjan> wtf happened to those letters
17:20:36 <fizzie> I thought it was a place.
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17:21:38 <fizzie> I.e., you have one dad in Youngers, and another in Olders.
17:22:16 <oerjan> sounds like it would be in flandern somewhere
17:23:40 <oerjan> (it's actually flandern in norwegian)
17:24:37 <olsner> flandern sounds like it would be spelled with a v originally
17:24:40 <boily> wikipédia redirects flandern to flanders.
17:25:11 <olsner> boily: have you tried lutefisk?
17:26:40 <oerjan> hm they have this reality show in norway where norwegian-americans compete to get to meet their family roots. i'm pretty sure lutefisk tasting would be one of the tests.
17:27:01 <oerjan> (i haven't watched it though, and don't have a tv)
17:27:05 <olsner> boily: I think lutfisk is going out of style, you might have to hurry before they stop making it
17:27:20 <olsner> (in sweden, that is, maybe it's still going strong in norway)
17:28:34 <oerjan> hm the english wikipedia has a page but it's very brief except for lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_for_Norge
17:28:47 <fizzie> olsner: How about surströmming?
17:29:39 <oerjan> surströmming only exists due to continued military subsidies hth
17:30:13 <boily> weaponized surströmming. *shudders*
17:30:38 <olsner> it seems more popular than lutfisk, since it appears in shops every year (and is prominently displayed)... which is odd, lutfisk is perfectly edible though completely tasteless, almost the complete opposite of surströmming
17:34:49 <oerjan> of course it's in the shops here http://www.matvareguiden.no/bilder_store/5829.jpg
17:37:36 <oerjan> (that's the christmas packaging of norway's main microwave dinner brand hth)
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17:50:55 <Vorpal> oerjan, well there is bacon in that, so that helps
17:52:14 <oerjan> and is standard lutefisk condiment afaiac
17:57:54 <olsner> I only ate lutfisk once, I thought the standard condiment was white sauce and pepper
17:58:31 <oerjan> no wonder lutefisk is dying out in sweden hth
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18:20:46 <olsner> (lut = lye, fisk = fish)
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20:09:04 <AndoDaan> Idea for an esoteric programming language: "2014". Has no executable commands but if and implementation is run, and it's 2014, it output "Hello, World!"
20:09:31 <ais523> AndoDaan: so if it isn't written quickly, the language is useless?
20:10:41 <AndoDaan> Maybe until 12 014. I don't know how computers will use dates then, so it might mess up.
20:13:30 <AndoDaan> Maybe not completely useless. Imagine: http://i.imgur.com/BO7rmKK.jpg Start up the old "2014" and say "hth"
20:14:07 <int-e> `` sha256sum <<<'int main(){}'
20:14:08 <HackEgo> 7364d3748f78f2937d0c5381c90d3b12c46b11966dae15673d34cfac955cec5f -
20:15:03 <int-e> Let C-7364d3748f78f2937d0c5381c90d3b12c46b11966dae15673d34cfac955cec5f be C with the syntactic restriction that every source file miust have an SHA256 hash equal to 7364d3748f78f2937d0c5381c90d3b12c46b11966dae15673d34cfac955cec5f...
20:19:40 <int-e> (The language is "cryptographically secure"; it is (almost certainly) TC, but writing exploitable code in it is close to impossible.)
20:20:33 <fizzie> Insert a backreference to the tedious C-and-TC discussions here.
20:21:02 <int-e> security claim: [4~.well, modulo compiler bugs..
20:21:09 <fizzie> (Maybe a footnote or something, when they publish the #esoteric book.)
20:22:33 <int-e> I guess I'm too practically minded to not consider C a TC language. In fact I expect that logically speaking, C does not exist; a standard that big is sure to contradict itself in several places.
20:30:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 2014?: not found
20:30:48 <Taneb> I am not very good at HackEgo, it took me a few tries to get that in properly
20:30:56 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "2014" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
20:31:38 <int-e> (If not, all I need to make C TC is to specify that we run the same C code with the same input on an infinite series of machines with increasing pointer sizes, until it terminates. A bit unfortunately, this seems to imply that size_t's range grows without bound...)
20:32:31 <AndoDaan> Taneb: I appreciate it. That was funny, and unexpected.
20:33:31 <Taneb> "logically speaking, C does not exist" out of context #esoteric
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21:21:50 <lambdabot> CYQB 312100Z 26007KT 25SM FEW030 FEW240 M13/M20 A3007 RMK CF1CI1 SLP190
21:25:29 <lambdabot> ENVA 312050Z 09007KT 9999 BKN044 03/02 Q1010 RMK WIND 670FT 17011KT
21:25:38 <lambdabot> ESSB 312120Z AUTO 25008KT 9999 BKN004/// 03/02 Q1015
21:25:47 <lambdabot> EFHK 312120Z 26007KT CAVOK 04/02 Q1010 NOSIG
21:25:57 <boily> ah! very warm in Helsinki!
21:26:11 <Vorpal> Somehow I own 518 games on Steam. How did that happen.
21:26:45 <Vorpal> I looked this up when I saw on the front page "already in your library" for a game I have no idea how I bought. (BioShock Infinite)
21:26:56 <Vorpal> Must have been a humble bundle or something
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21:41:48 <int-e> Vorpal: Thanks, that makes me feel a bit better about the 150ish games that I have on Stream (too many humble bundles)
21:42:37 <int-e> Otoh, I bought the 2K one for Bioshock Infinite, so I was unlikely to forget that.
21:42:57 <int-e> (but I still haven't played it)
21:43:53 <Vorpal> int-e, I have 101 humble bundles apparently
21:44:07 <Vorpal> int-e, I bought it for X-COM: Enemy Unknown
21:44:21 <Vorpal> I don't care about Infinite, maybe 1 and 2 though
21:44:30 <Vorpal> Much more interesting from the videos I have seen
21:44:30 <int-e> oh right, the weekly ones have been going on for a while, it's plausible.
21:44:45 <Vorpal> int-e, also book ones, I got a couple of them
21:45:30 <Vorpal> int-e, btw if you need some extra keys of some games I believe I can gift those. I have two *spare* Fez keys
21:45:35 <int-e> Oh, you checked the HB site. I don't have an account there.
21:45:48 <int-e> Fez is nice (but I got it with some HB)
21:46:10 <fizzie> I guess I can count myself as a modest bundler/steamer with a library size of 98.
21:46:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, that is only slightly behind me
21:46:37 <int-e> I think that's games, not bundles.
21:46:41 <Vorpal> int-e, yes? I looked at the progress bar for loading the home page, and it said "loading order 5 out of 101"...
21:47:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, How many bundles=
21:47:33 <int-e> Vorpal: you can buy humble bundles without making a HB account; All I have is a mailbox full of links to the bundle pages.
21:47:43 <int-e> So counting bundles is a bit tricky.
21:47:54 <Vorpal> int-e, Can you redeem to steam nowdays though?
21:48:04 <Vorpal> Thought it tied into your account nowdays
21:48:38 <int-e> no, you can redeem to whatever account you're logged in with on steam
21:48:56 <int-e> and in the early bundles, you got steam keys to copy and paste
21:50:29 <int-e> hmm 30 bundles + 5 individual humble store thingies.
21:51:13 <Vorpal> Never bought anything on the humble store
21:54:09 <int-e> let's see. I bought Trine (Trine 2 was nice), The Dream Machine Chapter 4 there (must've been cheaper than in the Steam Store), Antichamber (same price as on Steam, but DRM-free, as far as I recall), and Papo & Yo (hmm. I forgot). So only four things, actually.
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21:56:11 <Vorpal> I bought both Trine through an early humble bundle. Bought Trine 2 way before it was in a humble bundle. Directly on steam I think.
21:56:26 <fizzie> I've bought Antichamber when it was 1.69€ in the Humble Store.
21:56:34 <Vorpal> Bought Antichamber a few days after release, because it looked that amazing
21:56:43 <Vorpal> int-e, same, when possible
21:56:50 <Vorpal> Going to buy Witcher 3 from gog of course
21:57:07 <Vorpal> Anyway I got antichamber through a later humble bundle
21:57:20 <Vorpal> Papo & Yo the same I think?
21:57:27 <Vorpal> Never played that one, looks interesting though
22:02:43 <fizzie> Not aware of the user's time zone, I see.
22:02:53 <HackEgo> Wed Dec 31 22:02:50 UTC 2014
22:04:16 <fizzie> What's the strftime specifier for Swatch Internet Time?
22:04:50 <int-e> Vorpal: I think Papo & Yo is really well made, has unusual and interesting game mechanics ... but it also tells a disturbing story which may or may not affect how you'll like the game, it's hard to tell in advance.
22:09:46 <AndoDaan> Happy New Year to you then, fizzie.
22:09:54 <Vorpal> int-e, Eh, disturbing as in dark? I'm usually fine with that
22:10:39 <Vorpal> int-e, after all Witcher 2 is a dark and dreary world, and it is one of the games I love most
22:14:50 <Deewiant> Merry uusi vuosi från Fin lande
22:15:03 <Taneb> What are you doing there
22:16:16 <int-e> Vorpal: I don't think that's the right word.
22:16:58 <Vorpal> int-e, huh, not sure what you mean then, will be interesting.
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23:04:26 <ais523> that thing's only going to work for another hour
23:04:33 <ais523> we should write a wiki page about it
23:06:19 <AndoDaan> You think so? I like the joke language, but I wouldn't clog up the wiki with just silly things.
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23:06:43 <ais523> I think it makes a good philosophical point
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23:08:32 <AndoDaan> "languages"* and "I wouldn't want"*
23:09:03 <ais523> put it this way: it's more thoughtprovoking than the average BF derivative
23:09:20 <AndoDaan> But yeah, I guess there are many examples of time constrained languages.
23:09:52 <AndoDaan> I can't think of any actually.
23:09:55 <ais523> it's the extremely limiting time that makes it interesting
23:10:05 <ais523> arguably http://esolangs.org/wiki/Schroedilang if I've spelled that correctly
23:10:11 <ais523> but that'd only be useful if the description wasn't blatantly lying
23:10:36 <ais523> I'm racing to get this description done in 2014, too
23:11:12 <AndoDaan> Ha. 2014 has imprinted its nature upon you
23:13:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[2014]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41562 * Ais523 * (+1093) new article
23:13:16 <ais523> I'll put it on the joke language list, though
23:14:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41563&oldid=41274 * Ais523 * (+147) /* General languages */ +[[2014]]
23:14:37 <AndoDaan> "(and, presumably, years before 2014, although it will never be possible to tell)" brilliant. I didn't consider that.
23:14:47 <ais523> that was one of my later additions to the page
23:15:25 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "2014" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
23:15:36 <int-e> the reference implementation excludes years before 2013, hth
23:16:06 <AndoDaan> Quite a poetic description, as far as these things go. Thanks for that, ais523.
23:16:31 <ais523> I think I saw the poetry in it, so I decided to write the article
23:16:37 <ais523> int-e: that isn't a reference implementation
23:16:40 <ais523> that's just an implementation
23:17:08 <olsner> you can't really tell what any previous implementations did, since that's the first known implementation
23:17:38 <ais523> what about programs that did nothing, and became permanently decomissioned before 2014 started
23:17:44 <ais523> are those 2014 interps?
23:18:17 <ais523> Vorpal: you live in UTC+00:43?
23:19:20 <Vorpal> ais523, no I live in UTC+1, so it is now 00:19
23:19:31 <Vorpal> ais523, however, I was busy during the actual moment, with family
23:19:34 <olsner> I would say not, unless they were trying to be
23:19:52 <ais523> OK, new esolang: all programs are interps for this esolang
23:19:58 <olsner> they could be used as 2014 interpreters though?
23:19:58 <ais523> what a program means depends on what runs it
23:20:18 <Vorpal> ais523, that sounds meta
23:20:41 <Vorpal> ais523, also like a joke
23:21:24 <Vorpal> ais523, though there are UTC+nn:30 and similar laces
23:21:35 <int-e> Given a time machine, 2014 is/was/will be Hello-world-complete.
23:21:36 <Vorpal> India for example is offset by a half-hour iirc
23:21:55 <ais523> "hello world complete" is a pretty low computational class
23:21:56 <Vorpal> Well it depends on timezone
23:23:41 <ais523> -3 would imply the extreme east edge of the Americas
23:24:00 <ais523> or something else that vertically lined up with that
23:24:22 <Taneb> So it's 18:24 there?
23:24:46 <ais523> it's 23:24 right now in UTC
23:25:10 <int-e> Nepal (GMT+05:45) and Chatham Islands (GMT+12:45, +1 in summer (yes, DST!)) are the best time zones.
23:25:16 <pallokolmio> but daylight saving is in the other direction
23:26:06 <Taneb> pallokolmio, that makes it distinctly GMT-3
23:28:14 <pallokolmio> oh right gmt means greenwich mean time. maybe this is too complicated for me
23:29:30 <Taneb> Is that... Brazil?
23:29:57 <int-e> I guess technically, GMT=UTC+0; the former is a time zone, while the latter the standard time that time zones are based off.
23:31:13 <ais523> I thought GMT and UTC differed in leap second handling?
23:31:51 <int-e> no, that UTC and TAI
23:33:32 <Vorpal> tor 1 jan 2015 00:33:32 CET
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23:58:15 <ais523> `2014 while I still can
23:58:50 <Taneb> Is there a prize for last `2014 of 2014?
23:59:05 <ais523> but we should probably all spam `2014 at the boundary, just in case
23:59:08 <AndoDaan> ha,I was actually thinking about that.