00:00:03 nooo, fizzie should explain it 00:00:11 No, I should be asleep. 00:00:19 fizzie: cht=tx tells it it's a TeX formula 00:00:35 I love it when you come in to take the effort away from me 00:00:57 that's deprecated though 00:01:07 I should try to reboot somestuff 00:01:58 All I was going to say is that this definitely-non-GPT laptop has root=UUID=... on it. 00:02:16 blurgh 00:02:16 fizzie: ok, but then what's the full syntax? how do I specify the partition number on that disk, and where's good documentation here? 00:02:53 it specifies a partition. 00:03:09 It's a partition-specific UUID, you can't specify a partition on it. 00:03:09 use blkid or something to get the identifier 00:03:09 it can print them all out for you 00:03:09 you can use these in /etc/fstab too btw 00:03:09 fizzie: is it a laptop with only one hard disk? 00:03:09 which is good if, uh, you have no /dev, I guess? 00:03:09 ok wait 00:03:09 b_jonas: e.g. I'm pretty sure ubuntu and so on have installed with UUIDs only for years 00:03:09 certainly it's been the recommended arch practice for everyone for a long time 00:03:09 so I can use these partition-specific UUIDs, which are a filesystem feature 00:03:09 I see 00:03:09 that's great! 00:03:09 so I'd be very surprised if it didn't work for you 00:03:09 I might try this 00:03:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:03:09 This is a Debian installation, and it configured grub with UUID=... by default. 00:03:09 I sort of prefer the hard disk hardware ids, because the partition uids could get duplicated if I copy a whole filesystem bytewise, but that's a rare occasion 00:03:09 but I guess I could use this filesystem id thing for boot 00:03:13 And yes, the format does seem filesystem-specific, because all these ext-whatevers have the GUID-style thing, while the NTFS partitions are just 16 hex digits. 00:03:15 b_jonas: you should get in the habit of changing the UUID if you do that 00:03:20 you maybe can do ID=... or something 00:03:21 I dunno 00:03:34 b_jonas: btw, that's why byte-copying GPT tables is generally considered a sin 00:03:43 (you have to generate a new GUID if you clone a partition) 00:03:48 well 00:03:48 elliott: change them with tune2fs? could work, yes 00:03:50 depends on what you're doing 00:03:54 for backups it's whatever 00:03:59 but if you intend to use both simultaneously 00:04:11 Ok so like there's 16 million colour hex codes and I wanna list them all but idk how to do that in an.efficient and fast way 00:04:25 (or reiserfstune -u depending on the fs type I guess) 00:04:30 Or atleast almost a lot 00:04:40 you still use reiserfs? o_o 00:05:04 elliott: yes, for backup partitions that I may want to access even if my main system crashes and I want to access them with an old system that doesn't have ext4 support 00:05:16 (I'm paranoid) 00:05:26 I actually prefer ext4 now 00:05:37 but won't recreate some existing reiserfs 00:05:51 anyway, my remaining question is, where's this kernel parameter root=UUID thing documented? 00:05:59 does it work even without initrd? 00:06:04 because I think it's an initrd thing 00:06:06 but let me check 00:06:26 fizzie: so does this mean that if you have some random data that just happens to look like a valid somefs filesystem with a certain UUID...? 00:06:35 like, it works by probing, not by hashing up some hardware identifiers of the partition? 00:06:56 elliott: yes, I guess that's the other problem 00:07:07 I mean, it works, it's just ugly :p 00:07:11 I like PARTUUID better then 00:07:20 though I just use PARTLABEL since UUIDs are a pain and I know what my partition labels are 00:07:26 b_jonas: By the way, "lsblk -o +UUID,PARTUUID" suggests you can perhaps use PARTUUID without GPT too, because all these partitions have PARTUUIDs of 0008fac6-01 .. 0008fac6-07 where the first digits are probably the disk ID. 00:07:27 (you can use LABEL on non-GPT) 00:07:32 Meh am I the only one who lost data thanks to reiserfs' attitude of keeping metadata consistent but not caring about the relation between file size and file contents? 00:07:42 no 00:07:44 (Where the 01 .. 07 is the partition number.) 00:07:48 you arenr 00:07:52 elliott: some live cd systems that supposedly don't use your hard disk default to using any swap partitions they find on your hard disk as swap by default, good luck if you wanted to recover data from a failing hard disk with such a live boot system 00:07:54 (this must have been around the year 2000, I have not used reiserfs since) 00:08:17 (So many redundant tools -- I picked "lsblk -o +UUID,PARTUUID" out of 'man mount'.) 00:08:18 I've only used it recently 00:08:53 sadly, 00:08:55 fizzie: blkid is part of the same package as lsblk, I think. 00:09:00 it seems root=UUID= is an initrd feature 00:09:08 the kernel itself only has root=PARTUUID= 00:09:09 How do you keep a constant file of metadata mine keeps deleting itself and I'm slowly dieing 00:09:22 have you considered just using an initramfs :p 00:09:31 elliott: dpkg reports they're both in util-linux here, FWIW. 00:09:38 elliott: yes, I have mentioned that among other stuff 00:09:58 b_jonas: So did that non-GPT PARTUUID suit your needs? 00:09:59 but I just don't see why I need these sort of workarounds when linux does now my hard disk identifier anyway 00:09:59 fizzie: right I mean, they both use libblkid or whatever 00:10:09 fizzie: dunno, how does that work? 00:10:33 b_jonas: Try "lsblk -o +UUID,PARTUUID" and see if your partitions have "xxxxxxxx-NN" PARTUUID values. 00:10:43 b_jonas: Then try them out as root=PARTUUID=..., I guess. 00:11:03 just Delete linux and install the original windows 00:11:04 I don't have an lsblk 00:11:10 do I have to install that? 00:11:12 Well, hmm. 00:11:14 that's a horrid suggestion 00:11:21 I'm sorry 00:11:38 whatever I choose, I definitely won't do it right now. I'll sleep on it and thing what's the best thing to do. 00:11:54 b_jonas: It's in 'util-linux' on Debian. But I don't know anything about this. 00:12:10 b_jonas: At any rate, it's just a disk ID + partition number, so if you wanted something robust to repartitioning, this ain't it. 00:12:19 oh, apparently it's in later versions of lsblk 00:12:23 later than what I have installed 00:12:41 ok, I'll try to figure that out, thanks 00:12:44 it might helop 00:13:37 FWIW, fdisk reports "Disk identifier: 0x0008fac6" and the PARTUUIDs I get from lsblk are 0008fac6-01 and so on, so you could probably puzzle it out that way too. 00:13:47 Anyway, the sleep. -> 00:13:54 fizzie: thanks for the hints 00:16:28 creating an efi partition table and installing grub2 might make sense, so that's an option I have to consider too 00:18:28 anyone know the name of the symmetry group of Life-like CAs? 00:18:34 elliott: thank you 00:18:47 no problem. that'll be $5k 00:19:39 quintopia: dihedral group, D_4? 00:19:54 what symmetry group? 00:19:59 one of the wallpaper groups? 00:20:55 should it include translations as well? 00:23:43 or the symmetry of the rule set? 00:23:57 since it only depends on the number it's the full permutation group I think 00:24:24 aha 00:25:33 seems right vanila. thanks. 00:29:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: But is it a gauge symmetry?). 00:30:35 QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAA! 00:32:18 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: quitan). 00:39:38 * GeekDude blows everyone in this channel up with 1 ton of c4 00:42:22 rip 00:42:28 * GeekDude flings everyone in this channel into a black hole 00:44:37 u wot 00:47:34 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: zzz). 00:49:22 Are you implying GeekDude that being tossed into a black hole would kill us? 00:49:32 * GeekDude throws a baseball bat at everyone in this channel 00:49:42 U fkn w0t 00:50:23 -!- Guest69407 has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 00:50:40 * GeekDude slaps everyone in this channel with a PRIVMSG 00:51:04 idk 00:51:10 whats happening 00:51:14 Is he a bot? 00:51:47 GeekDude: pls stop 00:51:47 keeping an entire copy of your server on 300 floppy disks 00:51:56 I am not a bot 00:52:01 I just like slapping people 00:52:08 Stop :l 00:52:15 ya dip 00:52:15 Who keeps a backup on floppies? 00:52:35 was a joke 00:52:48 A very floppy joke 00:52:48 GeekDude: it's not really appropriate so please don't 00:52:52 Since servers nowadays would take up a lot of floppies 00:53:23 I think it'd depend on whether or not you're copying the entire server, or just the relevant configuration files and web root 00:53:29 Ok so like I'm trying to fill up a petabyte 00:53:39 And its taking very long 00:53:50 All of the server 00:54:01 God dammit words 00:55:49 -!- skj3gg has joined. 00:56:13 I'm having trouble with outputting spaces in haskell. 00:56:32 itsjusthavingallthewordsconnectedlikethis 00:57:18 uhh... can I see your code? 00:58:13 when I get on the computer elliott 00:58:27 I'm at my friends house atm 01:02:19 oh.. I'm stupid I accidently deleted the zerospace file ;-; now I have to redo it 01:02:32 Sorry for the bother. ugh I is stupid 01:08:40 I have a saying 01:08:46 "Everybody is stupid" 01:08:56 So far it's turned out pretty correct 01:25:12 I tried entering a complicated regular expression into Gatherer and it would not accept it. 01:25:56 How complicated? 01:27:51 I typed m/^[^()]*(\([^()]*\))*[^()]*counters?\son[^()]*(\([^()]*\))*[^()]*$/ although maybe it contains a mistake I don't know 01:28:41 What are you looking for? 01:29:00 Cards with "counter(s) on" outside of reminder text. 01:31:08 Does Gatherer even search inside the reminder text? 01:32:21 Yes it does, and doesn't seem to have an option to omit it. 01:34:24 I think what people usually do for complicated queries is download the database and search it themselves. 01:34:32 I don't know if it's easily available for download, though. 01:36:44 I did also want a SQLite database of Magic: the Gathering cards in fact. 01:37:22 Maybe people can work together making one up. 01:38:03 Several people have databases, e.g. magiccards.info and the bot Datatog on EFNet. 01:40:28 It doesn't seems you can download those? 01:40:59 I don't know, but maybe you can talk to those people. 01:41:05 There are also other databases of cards. 01:42:42 If they aren't in SQLite format then maybe they can be converted into SQLite format. 01:43:57 From what I have seen Gatherer is still the best one so far, though. 01:48:18 what's good about SQLite? 01:48:24 I use it in websites 01:52:45 You can use SQLite in websites, but it can also be used standalone, which is how I normally use it. 01:53:58 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:54:32 SQLite is a relatively simple SQL implementation, it stores the database in a single file, is public domain, is fast for small databases (it is fast for large databases too, but not as fast as larger implementations), and it supports virtual tables and INSTEAD OF triggers and a few other things. 01:55:02 zzo38: http://yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/ 01:55:10 It is also easy to write extensions. 01:56:12 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:58:42 a virtual table sounds weird, isn't SELECT statement enough? 01:58:43 shachaf: Thank you that might help for converting into SQLite format. 01:58:59 You can also search it directly. It is a text file. 01:59:31 Yes, although I believe it would also be useful in SQLite format. 01:59:57 vanila: ??? 02:00:19 i can nest SQL select 02:00:27 and I imagine that is powerful enough to replace virtual table? 02:01:21 Do you even know what a virtual table does? 02:02:43 O, SQLite also supports recursive WITH clauses and partial indices. Also, I find INSTEAD OF triggers are usually more useful than BEFORE and AFTER triggers. 02:02:54 -!- variable has joined. 02:02:54 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 02:02:54 -!- variable has joined. 02:03:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:16:47 I made up some new rules and cards for Magic: the Gathering. Do you like this? http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/newmtg.txt 02:17:24 Why reinstate mana burn? 02:17:33 I've never played with mana burn and it seems like it would be annoying. 02:17:49 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:19:51 For strategic purposes mainly. 02:20:06 But look at the card texts too. 02:21:38 -!- skj3gg has joined. 02:24:51 -!- oren has joined. 02:25:11 why can't I centre anything? 02:26:58 I just realized something 02:27:08 zzo38 appears last in a lot of lists that it appears in 02:27:43 yars. 02:27:51 so what? it begins with zz 02:27:55 yes thats why 02:28:11 if you want first you do AA 02:28:28 im not sure if that will wo rk well 02:28:31 since aardvarks exist 02:28:35 and aaron 02:28:39 you might need to go triple a 02:28:44 or 00 02:28:49 oh yeah true 02:30:27 what black sorcery does it take to vertically centre text in a div? 02:33:52 I could say jQuery, but I won't mention it. 02:38:25 My first name does start with AA, and my father changed his last name to Black so that his name would be close to the beginning of alphabetical lists. 02:39:07 boily: jquery doesn't seem to have it 02:44:34 oh it see. the font i'm using is uncentred. oh joy 02:45:37 the vagaries of web development... 02:46:21 i had the bright idea of making an RPG in javacript. I regret everything 02:52:24 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 02:55:06 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:06:20 `unidecode 🔣 03:06:22 U+1F523 INPUT SYMBOL FOR SYMBOLS \ UTF-8: f0 9f 94 a3 UTF-16BE: d83ddd23 Decimal: 🔣 \ 🔣 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 03:06:44 unicodeception 03:10:11 -!- Solace has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:24:01 zzo38: Isn't a token always a permanent right now? 03:30:37 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:31:07 -!- olsner has joined. 03:34:14 shachaf: Yes. 03:34:27 oren: Maybe you should make the RPG in SQL instead? 03:38:37 zzo38: Using {T} as the cost for loyalty abilities sounds worrying. 03:38:56 Untapping permanents isn't very difficult. They surely did it this way on purpose. 03:39:09 Though e.g. http://magiccards.info/query?q=!the+chain+veil exists. 03:40:38 is there a UNIX command to "pop" a line out of a file 03:40:56 using a file as a stack 03:40:59 or queue 03:43:43 shachaf: OK I fixed that. 03:44:08 vanila: I don't know of any, at least. 03:44:21 zzo38: What's the point of {T} loyalty abilities? 03:44:24 im goingo to write it myself, called 'pop' 03:44:30 Just to make it easier to keep track of the state? 03:45:01 it will be more efficient to truncate a line off a file, than move everthing back one line 03:45:08 shachaf: Mainly yes, but in unusual circumstances may do other things too. 03:45:22 hm tail gves me the last time 03:52:13 -!- tswett has joined. 03:53:41 -!- tswett has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:54:06 -!- tswett has joined. 03:58:49 -!- tswett has quit (Client Quit). 04:00:05 -!- tswett has joined. 04:01:27 -!- tswett has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:10:15 -!- adu has joined. 04:16:54 -!- rade has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:24:54 zzo38: Why not make losing the game as a result of attempting to draw a card a state-based action? 04:26:42 zzo38: http://mtgjson.com/ 04:26:53 It just doesn't make complete sense to me, since that would require the state of the game to include such a feature; it seems simpler to make it not a state-based action; this also would affect some unusual situations. 04:27:25 I was wondering which situations it would affect. 04:27:35 It seems like state-based actions are the usual way to handle that sort of thing? 04:30:36 -!- Solace has joined. 04:30:52 oren why is that unicode so long 04:30:59 or the catagory 04:31:17 That JSON data is good idea. Virtual table module can be one way to convert it into SQLite format. (Another virtual table module could then be used to convert into another different format too.) 04:32:38 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 04:32:42 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MACHINIST CHICKEN). 04:33:12 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:34:29 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:34:34 how does one render 16 million colours on a bit map 04:35:15 vanila: depending on what "pop" is used for, you should probably create a new file and rename it atomically. 04:38:35 shachaf: It would affect the situation in case someone is both losing all life and being unable to draw a card at the same time. (I am also curious what the old Fourth Edition rules are regarding this situation. I have a Magic: the Puzzing book, so it would help to know such thing.) 04:39:04 And, what is your opnions of some of the cards I have put in? (Note that sometimes I update them even a few seconds ago and a few minutes in the future.) 04:40:03 For example: x=$(mktemp --tmpdir "$(dirname "$1")"); l=$(tail -n 1 "$1"); head -n -1 "$1" >"$x"; mv "$x" "$1"; echo "$l" 04:43:29 An open-source fanatic friend says no one will use my project if I don't open source it 04:43:44 Well, he is probably half right. 04:43:55 Sgeo: It depend what your project is, probably. What is the project anyways? 04:44:12 Not sure if I really want to say on here 04:44:20 It's just a sorting of Google Maps API data though 04:44:35 Open-sourcing it will nevertheless probably improve its usefulness. 05:05:40 O, they also have mana symbols in SVG; that may help in order to convert it into a typeface. 05:08:25 shachaf: where's prismatajson? 05:09:50 Sgeo: http://blog.prismata.net/units/ hth 05:15:37 Sgeo: http://prismata.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Category:Unit_data has some unit data. 05:15:45 Do you want to play a game? 05:16:27 why don't you open source it 05:18:58 I might want to make money on it. Although I guess I can both have ads and open-source it 05:19:01 I'm still undecided 05:20:38 * Sgeo is also undecided whether to play shachaf in Prismata right now 05:20:56 Put lots of invisible banner ads on it 05:21:33 Then open source it layer a couple ssh's over it encrypt all of it and then no one can use eet 05:21:47 Screeeee 05:25:15 imo decide 05:25:26 * Sgeo decides he needs to drink water 05:26:14 You can open-source it and still earn money; there are several ways to do so. For example the GUI version is you can charge money and/or put ads in it, command-line version is an open-source software package 05:26:49 Make it force pull $3000 from their paypals 05:27:23 That's cheating and anyways not everyone is using Paypal or has that much in their account even if they do. 05:27:48 Uh ;-; 05:27:54 Packet sniffer 05:28:09 Idk I give illegal suggestions 05:28:12 Don't mind ne 05:28:19 me* 05:28:42 * Sgeo won't play Prismata right now 05:29:01 whatis prismata? 05:29:31 http://prismata.net/ 05:30:08 Ty 05:30:29 * Solace proceeds to click the link after 17 weeks 06:07:53 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 06:10:28 🍔🍟🎮😊 06:12:40 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:19:14 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 06:21:00 Isn't prismata that game that was basically jumpstarted by reddit? 06:24:18 Do you crave that mineral? 06:28:05 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:30:15 -!- skj3gg has joined. 06:30:45 GeekDude: yes 06:32:42 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 07:33:07 -!- PixelToast has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:33:31 -!- PixelToast has joined. 07:52:38 Solace: Might as well encrypt their data and ask for money to decrypt 08:08:00 -!- PixelToast has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:08:16 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:30:11 -!- Solace has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:35:06 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 08:52:18 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 08:55:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:55:23 [wiki] [[Talk:Folders]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41590 * Keymaker * (+828) Clarifications? 09:18:11 -!- dts|pokeball has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:19:44 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 09:19:44 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Changing host). 09:19:44 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 09:41:57 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:46:56 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 10:14:52 -!- [{Oren}] has joined. 10:16:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:18:04 <[{Oren}]> i still don't understand why the icon for a zip archive on windows is a folder with a zipper on it 10:18:20 didn't you just answer your own question 10:18:46 <[{Oren}]> why not use a proper metaphor instead of a stupid pun? 10:19:11 is it a pun? 10:19:15 <[{Oren}]> like haha .zip zipper 10:19:49 or, if it is a pun, are you sure microsoft made it? 10:20:19 <[{Oren}]> i haven't got any special icon sets installed (afaik) 10:20:35 i mean, are you sure "zip" wasn't made for that pun 10:20:54 also, making metaphors into icons is hard. 10:21:12 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: going back to sleep). 10:21:22 oerjan: it was named after pkzip obviously hth 10:22:16 ok maybe not "The name "zip" (meaning "move at high speed") was suggested by Katz's friend, Robert Mahoney." 10:22:36 whoa 10:23:53 if God was the first pun, then who made God 10:24:13 <[{Oren}]> http://snag.gy/Al52E.jpg 10:24:20 fun puns 10:24:35 <[{Oren}]> anyway the zipper is in a nonsensical place 10:25:04 although, pretty sure "zipper" must have been made from that verb too... 10:25:08 oerjan: Yeah I won't believe that they were unaware of the other meanings. (the decompressor was pkunzip -- would that mean "make slow"?) 10:26:56 i get this feeling everyone in the channel except me is into manga style these days 10:27:06 (of course i have no style) 10:27:09 <[{Oren}]> oppa manga style! 10:28:06 [{Oren}]: i see no zipper in that image :( 10:28:25 ꊐ 10:29:19 <[{Oren}]> the "compressed folder" named "allegro" is the fourth one down on the left. 10:29:21 ``unidecode ꊐ # ha ha 10:29:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `unidecode: not found 10:29:28 wat 10:29:42 <[{Oren}]> `unidecode ꊐ 10:29:42 ​[U+A290 YI SYLLABLE ZIP] 10:29:56 oh 10:30:40 <[{Oren}]> `unidecode 名 10:30:41 ​[U+540D CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-540D] 10:30:57 <[{Oren}]> that is an extremely unhelpful name 10:31:01 you thin 10:31:02 k 10:33:28 <[{Oren}]> `unidecode 狗 10:33:28 ​[U+72D7 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-72D7] 10:33:48 <[{Oren}]> it sure is 72D7 isn't it 10:34:19 it's an ideological system hth 10:35:21 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:36:33 the han unification ideology 10:38:20 <[{Oren}]> that character means dog in every languageit is used in... why can't they just say CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH DOG 10:39:05 I'll have to re-check this, I may have been stupid yesterday 10:39:16 <[{Oren}]> also nowadays it should just be CJ unification since K aren't using them anymore 10:39:23 It should just be CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH 狗 hth 10:41:03 [{Oren}]: they aren't? 10:41:52 when did south korea stop sprinkling kanji into everything, i heard that was a major difference between them and north korea 10:42:02 (once upon a time) 10:42:48 <[{Oren}]> oerjan: apparently they stopped in the 1990's 10:42:53 huh 10:43:35 live and learn 10:44:22 <[{Oren}]> yeah, so it went from CJKV to CJK and now it should just be CJ 10:48:36 "Formal hanja education begins in grade 7 (junior high school) and continues until graduation from senior high school in grade 12. A total of 1,800 hanja are taught: 900 for junior high, and 900 for senior high (starting in grade 10)." 10:50:20 So it's latin 10:50:37 <[{Oren}]> oh... i see 10:51:03 Jafet: "Only Latin capital letters A to Z (U+0041..U+0056), ASCII digits (U+0030..U+0039), U+0020 space, and U+002D hyphen-minus occur in character names." 10:51:41 Such privileges 10:52:28 int-e: I thought the allowed selection was a bit larger, 10:52:28 someone should tell those folks about unicode 10:52:31 it's 2015 10:52:34 as in, all iso-646 invariant printable characters 10:52:35 (Unicode, chapter 4.8) 10:52:43 shachaf: ehe 10:52:45 so basically commas or slashes cuold appear 10:52:48 int-e: hmm, is that a statement of what is /allowed/ or just what happens to be true? 10:53:00 and I think at least one more character actually appears, let me look it up 10:53:21 b_jonas: looks like a hard rule to me. 10:53:50 Probably a rule for subcommittees. 10:54:44 I don't think there's even any systematic way of enumerating the han characters by shape 10:54:47 <[{Oren}]> Anyway i see now reason then why 漢 could not be CJ UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH HAN 10:56:13 <[{Oren}]> Jafet: there is the tried and true radical/stroke number system but it doesn't really work for simplified characters 10:56:25 Jafet: shape? _shape_? the shape isn't what determines the characters, it's the historical fluff loaded on it. that's true even for latin. O and О are different characters even if they have the same shape. 10:56:26 CJ UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH COMPOSED OF RADICAL WITH TWO SHORT DOWNWARD DIAGONAL STROKES ABOVE A LONG UPWARD DIAGONAL STROKE AND RADICAL GOD WHAT A MESS 10:57:06 <[{Oren}]> so as expected, it should be by the meaning 10:57:58 I think most han ideographs are uniquely determined by shape 10:58:10 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 10:58:10 [{Oren}]: but the meaning can change, and you can't ever be sure what meanings a character will get that all languages that will ever be transcribed with kanji in the future um I've got this sentence tangled up 10:58:18 Jafet: not the unified ones, that's the point 10:59:12 Jafet: of course, the unified ones (that unify different characters from simplified chinese, traditional chinese, and japanese) are a historical artifact that should never have happened (the reason was that they only had the space for about 65536 characters) 10:59:49 `unidecode OО 10:59:50 ​[U+004F LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O] [U+041E CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER O] 11:00:07 <[{Oren}]> unicode is far from futureproof anyway 11:00:13 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:00:16 imagine if they'd done latin-cyrillic greek unification 11:00:21 [{Oren}]: sure, there are mistakes and even plain typos in the character names 11:00:23 *- 11:00:46 <[{Oren}]> oerjan: i have done that in a font for a game 11:00:57 oerjan: I think that would have been pointless. there's only like one character you can share with greek (o) and about two or three you can share with cyrillic 11:01:04 somewhere out there is a parallel universe where china invented the internet and they did just that. 11:01:34 b_jonas: oh hm well if you have to keep upper and lower case together... 11:02:09 imagine this system being made by completely culture-ignorant chinese 11:02:11 <[{Oren}]> if china was more powerful then japan and taiwan would just have to make due with simplified characters 11:02:25 so they unify latin P with russian R 11:02:27 oerjan: yeah, admittedly that's already sort of fucked up with the turkish i and the two different cyrillic lowercase shapes 11:02:50 there's just no easy solution for those, some software really has to know about the details to handle those 11:03:54 hmm, I was wrong, indeed all character names use only those characters 11:04:10 i wonder how much internationalized software out there _actually_ handles russian numbers correctly 11:04:28 oerjan: russian numbers? what? 11:04:55 but of course most software handles internationalized anything wrong 11:05:08 b_jonas: this isn't a character issue, but combining a number and a noun in russian has at least 5 different inflection combinations 11:05:54 Most software don't even handle 1 languages correctly 11:05:58 you need to know how to inflect the nouns 11:05:59 oerjan: dunno, ask ais523, he's the one who's worked on that kind of crazy phrase making software. well, some of my colleagues have too. 11:06:10 oh he has? 11:06:43 oerjan: not Russian in particular, but he's started to wrote a branch of nethack4 called grammartree, currently sleeping, that tries to handle translation well in general 11:07:06 and also improving messages in English, which is no easy task beacuse nethack's handling of English is quite good already most of the times 11:07:13 (though there are small mistakes) 11:07:53 but it turns out grammartree was too large a task so he's concentrating on other stuff instead, and the trunk has drifted far enough that grammartree is not even easy to merge I think 11:08:09 but anyway, the basics of grammartree might be helpful, it seems to be some ultra-general system thingy 11:08:09 b_jonas: mainly i'm thinking of this because the yesod web framework in haskell has a documentation page on internationalization, and mentions the russian problem as something you want an advanced system for, but does _not_ show that (or anything similarly complicated) as an actual code example 11:08:50 oerjan: have you checked if icu has code for this russian numbers thing? they have some sort of number formatting stuff 11:09:03 <[{Oren}]> interesting fact: because Shift-JIS encodes greek and russian with two bytes, these characters are displayed wide on Japanese fonts 11:09:12 ...i don't even do this kind of coding myself, so no 11:09:23 (and no interface for finding the date of Easter in their calendar handling, it seems) 11:09:45 [{Oren}]: yeah, crazy historical stuff 11:10:07 [{Oren}]: that's where the weird single width kana come from 11:10:12 <[{Oren}]> the fact they even decided that 2 bytes = wide character is crazy 11:10:46 [{Oren}]: Are you sure it is really crazy? It make a few sense to me. 11:10:54 [{Oren}]: oh come on, that does make sense. think of teletext, where the color changing codes take up a column, so that it can be decoded by very simple circuits 11:11:16 <[{Oren}]> it could guarantee that strlen is the width of the string... 11:11:23 The part of Shift-JIS which is bad is that it sometimes interferes with ASCII characters. 11:11:32 But, 2 bytes = wide character is not bad. 11:11:36 (teletext also has different and incompatible codepages, so if you're watching with the television made for the wrong country, you'll see garbled accented characters. that happens with some old basic-based personal computers too.) 11:12:58 from http://userguide.icu-project.org/formatparse/numbers I think it doesn't handle that 11:13:07 not fully I mean 11:13:21 it may have a way to format numbers with different inflections 11:13:50 here in norway, teletext frequently shows swedish letters instead of norwegian ones 11:13:59 or at least used to 11:16:01 as in ö instead of ø ? or more fucked up? 11:16:20 no wait, I mean Ö instead of Ø 11:16:27 (lowercase letters... what was I thinking) 11:16:33 yeah 11:16:50 noticeable but not a real problem 11:17:44 do modern television receivers handle all that correctly? I mean, they're certainly technically capable to store all the different codepages and use the right one. 11:18:32 b_jonas: i'm going to suspect that their ORDINAL rule cannot even handle romance languages (something like 1a vs. 1o dependent on gender) 11:19:14 I hear from my brother that Swedish-speaking doctors in Norway sometimes dictate medical texts in Swedish and their secretary types them translated to Norwegian on the fly. 11:19:29 wat 11:20:18 do doctors even have secretaries these days. 11:20:29 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:20:29 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Changing host). 11:20:29 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:20:40 oerjan: assistants. and not all of them have them of course, just some, so this isn't universal. 11:21:02 But the texts doctors write have very few ordinary words, it's mostly medical jargon and abbreviations, so I imagine translating it isn't difficult. 11:22:58 <[{Oren}]> my dad once translated a bulgarian math paper into russian. he has very little knowledge of wither language 11:23:00 But they certainly have assistants because there are too few doctors but enough assistants. 11:23:46 [{Oren}]: yes, math is like that too. it's much easier to learn to read english or french or german or russian math papers than to really learn those languages. the vocabulary is small. 11:23:48 i once translated an english medical text into norwegian for my aunt 11:24:19 these days most of the papers are English or Chinese, so I never really had to learn that skill, but still. 11:25:28 western scientists are going to be so hosed when chinese really takes off as a scientific language 11:25:53 oerjan: nah, quite a lot of the papers they write are worthless 11:26:01 the papers they write in chinese that is 11:26:09 <[{Oren}]> japanese scientists could read both 11:26:17 b_jonas: by taking off, i mean in quality as well, of course 11:26:23 oerjan: maybe 11:26:25 as in, can no longer be ignored 11:27:02 oerjan: but aren't math papers at that point (possibly not those in other sciences) still supposed to have a small vocabulary, so they're easy to read (even if not write)? 11:27:53 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:29:00 well i wasn't talking about math specifically 11:29:34 You mean like biologists? They might be more screwed, yeah 11:29:36 although i still think chinese would be worse; with german/french you can still recognize all the latin/greek-derived words in common 11:29:48 sure, it would be somewhat worse 11:30:36 *far* worse, if you can never guess what a word means... 11:30:46 from its form 11:30:59 you don't have to guess. look it up in a dictionary. come on, we're living on the internet age. 11:31:07 ...fair point. 11:31:27 computers are already making finding and reading research papers much easier in many ways. 11:31:29 Hopefully some of those improved-quality publications concern automatic translation 11:33:37 On the other hand, nearly all computer science publications worth reading are written in english 11:35:07 i suppose when you're already using an english-based programming language... 11:35:22 <[{Oren}]> and english based libraries 11:36:17 Jafet: meh, I don't care much about computer science publications. 11:39:20 What is the rule in Magic: the Gathering if the type of a creature being haunted changes into something that isn't a creature? 11:39:45 O wait, now I see. 11:39:48 Never mind 11:45:48 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:49:00 there's such a rule? I think the haunting continues to work 11:49:46 I think there's a general rule that effects saying things like "that creature" referencing an object selected earlier still work even if the referenced object is no longer of that type 11:50:35 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:51:30 though of course some particular effects could have specific rules overriding this 12:04:20 Actually, rule 702.54b clarifies it so that is how I already saw 12:04:40 The haunting does continue to work. 12:05:03 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 12:14:21 Did you see the new cards I made in newmtg.txt? Now I added some, such as "Hide Attackers". 12:15:45 (It is an instant with Ninjutsu; that is pretty strange, isn't it?) 12:16:40 -!- rade has joined. 12:17:12 I assume that Vigilance does not prevent a card with Ninjutsu from coming into play tapped. 12:17:44 I also assume that Defender does not prevent Ninjutsu from working. 12:25:33 zzo38: what newmtg.txt? 12:29:55 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/newmtg.txt 12:33:05 Is there any Magic: the Puzzling that invokes rule 514.3a? 12:36:07 um, wait a minute, which rule is that, do I even have a copy of the latest version of the rules? 12:36:31 "These rules are effective as of June 1, 2014." -- that's old 12:36:50 That is the rule that allows players to have priority during a cleanup step if state-based or triggers occur at that time. 12:37:15 oh, I've heared of that rule, yes 12:38:56 "These rules are effective as of September 25, 2014." - better 12:39:06 yes, that's what 514.3a says 12:42:42 zzo38: here's what I was wondering. would it be sane for white to have a counterspell like this: name: Fair Duel. mana cost: 1W. type: Instant. abilities: Cast Fair Duel only during combat. Counter target spell. 12:43:12 I don't know. It looks like OK to me, but I don't know. 12:43:41 I will add it anyways for now. 12:44:11 “Losing the game due to being unable to draw a card is now part of the definition of drawing a card (rather than a state-based action), and occurs immediately, before state-based actions are checked.” - oh, sounds like a good change! 12:44:44 There are cards too, not only rules in there! 12:46:07 “Loyalty abilities have {T} as part of their cost.” - what? wouldn't that make the middle ability of Gideon, Champion of Justice very difficult to use effectively? 12:46:51 Yes. 12:47:19 and apparently Khans has another similar planeswalker: Sharkan, the Dragonspeaker 12:47:48 but even without this, what purpose would that change serve? 12:47:54 I deleted that paragraph now. 12:48:04 ok 12:49:48 (You may want to reload; I don't know if you have the newest version with other minor changes too.) 12:50:53 oh dear, Aether Hack sounds scary 12:51:18 does it let me change -1/-1 counters to +2/+2 counters? or whatever is the best counter in existance 12:51:22 No! 12:51:45 Only references to named (not +X/+X and -X/-X) counters can be changed. 12:52:45 I added that clarification. 12:53:21 (+2/+2 and -2/-2 seems to be the best) 12:53:25 can you change to poison counters? 12:53:29 Yes. 12:53:44 not that it helps much, because players barely get other counters 12:54:24 Yes, exactly that. 12:55:26 so I can't change _from_ -1/-1 counters either? 12:55:30 ok 12:55:34 ah, it says "named counter" now 12:56:59 Yes, that is correct it can't change _from_ -1/-1 or +1/+1 counters either. 12:58:46 what cards are there that refer to any type of counter, besides Aether Snap, Clockspinning, and Giant Fan? 12:59:18 Also, it cannot change counters that are already on a permanent, although it may partially or fully stop those counters from working. 12:59:49 sure, but it can make a spell enter the battlefield with the wrong type of counters 13:00:26 Yes, it can, in some cases. 13:00:30 hmm, a super-strong Searchlight that adds to each player's mana pool? weird 13:00:52 Change Designation - um, doesn't this break some sort of rules? 13:01:01 plus it might be hard to track because it doesn't time out 13:01:11 well, at least it's an aura 13:01:12 but still 13:01:29 It does expire when the aura is removed (or its ability is removed). 13:01:34 yeah 13:01:46 What kind of rules is it breaking exactly? 13:01:52 dunno, let me think 13:02:10 it might not break any 13:02:23 because you can mostly already change names with copy effects 13:02:49 it lets you double Legendary creatures under the same control of course, 13:03:00 or help or hinder Echoing spells 13:03:06 but that's not rules breakage 13:03:33 Biovisionary… what the heck is this? is that card for real? 13:03:46 wow 13:04:11 Simic at its best 13:06:15 I guess it might let you get Kaldra a bit earlier, but that's also no problem 13:09:29 Diligent Farmhand … what the heck? do cards like that really exist? 13:09:33 I find strange things 13:13:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:14:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:15:14 what the heck... 13:17:13 ah, I see 13:21:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:22:00 what the heck, there's an aura in Fallen Empires that gives a creature the homarid abilities? 13:22:03 wow 13:22:23 (well, technically it doesn't) 13:24:36 "{(3/R)}" - now really 13:24:39 that would be confusing 13:32:55 Control Yourself -- a bit narrow, but could work against Lure abilities, or possibly on cards with activated abilities an opponent can play 13:33:14 Yes, although maybe the name should be changed too 13:33:23 like Clergy of the Holy Nimbus 13:33:36 or that undamagable stone lion thing 13:33:58 Yes, that is some of the uses of this card. 13:34:47 technically it could also protect you if you're going to be mindslaved 13:35:17 hmm, Aether Storm 13:35:26 no wait, it doesn't help for that 13:35:33 not much at least 13:37:32 that lion thing is Glittering Lion 13:38:37 oh, maybe also "must attack" creatures, there are a lot of those 13:38:48 (or "must block") 13:40:39 Yes. 13:42:23 Corrupt Council - what the... how does this work? Basically, if you activate its ability, then you want to vote "yes", and then the opponent may have him draw a card in exchange for you drawing three cards? 13:42:31 plus some lifegain. 13:42:45 unless you have extra votes or something. 13:43:33 Yes it is how it works. But I don't know possibly the costs should be changed? 13:43:45 no idea 13:44:55 Well, I fixed it so that whoever win a vote has to pay {1} before gaining 1 life and/or drawing 1 card. 13:45:28 Diamond of Many Colors - why does this say "All mana in your mana pool is changed into a single color of your choice." rather than "Change all mana in your mana pool into a single color of your choice."? 13:45:49 I could change the wording if that would help. 13:46:28 though this seems somewhat inefficient to me, and I'd rarely use it over that shaman guy 13:46:47 the snake shaman 13:47:01 Orochi Leafcaller 13:47:32 I mean, I would like more tools for coloring mana infinitely, but this seems underpowered to me 13:48:40 whoa... Emblegoyf gets +1/+1 for each object in the command zone... wait a minute 13:49:01 does that get like 20/20 if there's a pack of Archenemy schemes there? 13:49:20 and if you play it in Archenemy, that's guaranteed 13:49:25 Yes, probably the cost is too low 13:49:36 no, the problem is that you can't cost it correctly 13:49:46 because in archenemy, it's always a 20/20 creature 13:49:48 Either that it maybe it should be banned, or apply only to emblems 13:50:41 are emblems even objects? 13:51:14 yes, they are objects 13:51:14 ok 13:51:39 Or possibly only face-up objects. 13:51:58 are emblems even face up? 13:52:27 I don't know what the rule is, but I assume it is if it isn't face-down. 13:52:39 well, whatever 13:53:32 Energy Conversation ... hmm, this is funny 13:54:39 I now changed it to "non-face-down object" 13:56:20 Epicize is scary, but it has a high cost 13:57:23 And it can be removed with Disenchant. 13:57:43 but doesn't it makes games boring and non-interactive once you cast it? 13:58:13 like that deck I made that quickly gains me infinite life but then takes its sweet time to wait until the opponents are decked 13:58:21 and tries to refill my library 13:58:22 You can still do stuff other than cast spells. 13:58:26 well sure 13:58:37 and my opponents can still do stuff other than damage me 13:58:58 they can try to counter my stuff that refills my library, which is the most effective tactics but only because that part of my deck sucked, 13:59:37 I wonder, what spells of your own can it be worth to cast Epicize? 14:02:06 hmm, a 2/2 creature with flying, trample, first strike costing any two different colors of mana, isn't that a bit overpowered in a two-colored deck? 14:02:39 hey! I was serious about the exact text of Fair Duel 14:02:43 It has affinity for lands too though 14:03:15 Angelic Favor says "Cast Angelic Favor only during combat." 14:03:18 that's the text this should have too 14:03:36 OK I fixed Fair Duel except that it refers to itself using a tilde. 14:03:36 not "Can be used only during", that makes it look like some old card back before sane templating 14:03:45 better, thanks 14:03:59 zzo38: oh wait, you mean the affinity is mandatory 14:04:10 so if I have five lands it can only get one +1/+1 counter?\ 14:04:11 whos 14:04:29 tricky 14:04:37 yes, then it might be not so overpowered 14:04:40 Yes, I believe affinity is mandatory. 14:04:44 interesting construction 14:06:46 Fast Aging ... what's that good for? countering permanents that already have cumulative upkeep? 14:08:11 One thing it is capable of doing is allow its controller to sacrifice it during their upkeep if they do not want that card anymore, even if it does not already have cumulative upkeep. 14:08:19 Hex Shield - that's like an improved Diplomatic Immunity? 14:08:58 Yes it is like that. 14:10:24 in Human Supremacy Corporation, the template should be "This ability may be activated by any player." instead of "Can be used by anyone." 14:10:38 no wait 14:10:49 it's "Any player may activate this ability." 14:10:51 sorry 14:10:55 OK 14:11:30 Next card I also fixed in the same way. 14:13:19 oh, Instant Infection can target spells or non-creature permanents... interesting 14:13:53 if I target a spell, does it keep that ability if that spell resolves to a permanent? my guess is no, but I'm not sure about the rules 14:14:06 hmm wait 14:14:08 maybe it does 14:14:15 I believe it does; an object moving from the stack into play doesn't reset. 14:14:18 where's the Lace rule 14:14:32 um, no 14:14:39 it does reset, but there's a large exception I think 14:14:48 it keeps some of its characteristic changes 14:14:49 or something 14:14:51 let me look it up 14:15:34 rule 400.7a 14:15:38 I don't really know, let me look it up too, but I thought at least it didn't used to reset in some version of the rules? I'm not sure 14:15:51 "400.7a Effects from spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities that change the characteristics of a permanent spell on the stack continue to apply to the permanent that spell becomes." 14:15:55 so it keeps infect 14:15:56 O, yes that's correct. 14:16:50 also I think there's a rule somewhere that face down spells resolve face down 14:17:10 to a face down permanent 14:17:19 Yes 14:17:40 Knowledge Enforcer - hmm, a reverse magpie 14:18:01 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 14:18:24 [wiki] [[Talk:Budget]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41591&oldid=41560 * Oerjan * (+162) You're right 14:18:28 Landscape Formation - ah, this is that one you were asking about 14:19:17 you didn't dare to call it "Yo Mama So Fat He's Got His Own Postal Code" or "Officer, I Hit Him Because I Didn't Have Enough Gas To Drive Around Him" 14:19:30 I guess you could still put that in the flavor text 14:19:52 Those names are silly and long, but yes they could be used in flavor text if anyone renders the cards. 14:20:12 (Of course, different renders can have different flavor text and/or different art.) 14:20:49 Magical Armory - what the, can you even have a non-equipment just gain equip? 14:21:07 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Budget]]": Off topic and uninteresting 14:21:27 yes, I think you can 14:21:29 still, strange 14:21:45 The rules do not seem to prohibit it. 14:22:37 um, why does Magus of Suspension have that last ability? 14:22:44 how is it related to the rest? 14:23:08 Master of the Dragons - oh no, another Old Fogey! 14:23:31 It isn't but I put it there to allow doing more damage, but maybe it shouldn't be? 14:24:30 (If Magical Armory is played on a global enchantment, I think the Equip ability is still usable but does nothing in such a case.) 14:25:58 dunno, maybe make it 1/2 and give it an activated switch power and toughness ability 14:27:12 OK 14:27:13 or just remove it entirely and assume blue players will figure out something interesting to do with it rather than just want it to deal more damage 14:27:26 Yes probably that is better OK 14:27:34 those five paragraphs don't even fit easily on a card 14:27:45 though you could try to put the first four in the same paragraph 14:28:03 no wait 14:28:06 suspend should be on its own 14:28:27 how about "Suspend 4 -- {U}" as the first paragraph, then "Vanishing 4, flying" as the second 14:28:58 in Master of the Dragons, don't capitalize all those abilities individually 14:29:04 OK, yes it can help to do that as am abbreviation. 14:29:35 and don't capitalize "Dragons" either 14:29:52 Aren't subtypes always capitalized though? 14:30:18 hmm wait, maybe they are 14:30:58 yes, it seems so from Nath's Buffoon 14:31:04 ok, so "Dragons" should remain capitalized 14:31:29 and change "Usable only during your turn." to something like "Activate this ability only during your turn." 14:32:03 OK 14:33:11 [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41592&oldid=41587 * Oerjan * (+39) author, links 14:33:20 Master Switch - bringing back the old rules like Jar Jar Binks from Droidekar does? hmm 14:33:36 what next? will you add a card with an ability that reinstates mana burn? 14:33:53 Well, it stops working itself once its own activated ability is used 14:34:13 uh... what? 14:34:21 I don't think it does 14:34:34 No it says it only works while untapped 14:34:39 oh 14:34:40 hmm 14:34:53 then I don't know how this would work 14:35:14 [wiki] [[Template:Yearcats]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41593&oldid=38196 * Oerjan * (+26) Update 14:35:42 But if you have two then you can turn off one artifact. 14:37:17 Modular Aura - interesting, that's a bit similar to Vigeaqn Hydropon 14:39:28 Moon Monolith - hehe, so you'll have to remember which handful of cards are errataed to have color indicators? (Evermind, the suspend spells with no mana costs, Dryad Arbor I think) 14:40:10 Painful Markings - whoa.... interesting, though I'm not sure it should be red 14:40:34 I could change the mana cost if it help to do so. 14:40:59 but I'm not sure what color it should be really 14:41:18 it doesn't seem to fit anywhere 14:42:54 Personal Guard - wait what? how is a personal guard too slow to jump in front of a bullet? that's now how they work in Hollywood films 14:44:12 isn't having to pay {1W} enough of a restriction to activate that ability reacting to a surprise? 14:44:41 Probably you are correct. 14:45:42 But even in such case you can still react during declare attackers/declare blockers step if the stack is empty. 14:45:55 sure, but not for a Lightning Bolt 14:46:04 or a javelin or arrow 14:46:21 Yes, that is correct. 14:46:40 For now I just changed the cost to {1} but later may make other changes. 14:46:57 Scroll of Cryptic Runes - "Put target spell into play" - hehehe 14:47:18 [wiki] [[Vigil]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41594&oldid=41580 * Oerjan * (+80) wikify a bit 14:49:13 um, can you paly that card with its madness ability if the stack isn't empty? 14:49:43 [wiki] [[Vigil]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41595&oldid=41594 * Oerjan * (-5) On second thought, I don't think it fits our definition of "joke language" 14:49:48 Yes, I believe madness allows it. 14:49:53 -!- nys has joined. 14:50:27 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41596&oldid=41574 * Oerjan * (+12) /* V */ Add Vigil 14:50:29 oh right, stupid question 14:50:35 yes, it does allow 14:51:14 "Scroll of Protection" - hmm, I have a crazy card with protection somewhere 14:51:20 um, not with protection 14:51:26 but one that gives protection 14:51:30 Ugh. wtf. OK, trying to write an actual application in F# now, and I'm suddenly understanding why everyone hates writing code on MS platforms ... 14:51:35 always wear protection 14:51:58 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:55:06 I just want to write a simple script that reads some text files and then outputs another text file, but apparently even predicting the current directory of an F# script/executable is non-trivial. 14:55:23 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:56:07 I think it was something like an aura that gives every creature protection from the enchanted permanent. 14:56:08 Script files default to a Windows temp directory, and executables build to a nested subfolder deep in the bowels of the project. 14:56:38 Oh, and of course, script files and source files have completely different behaviors when it comes to a main function. So that's fun. 14:57:41 "Staff of Kicking" - how is this a staff rather than boots? 14:58:12 It is staff with boots on it; it is not equipment so it is not boots. 14:58:25 Stone of Interruption - what 14:59:06 how would you even activate that ability while there's a split second spell on the stack? 14:59:57 Split second doesn't stop mana abilities from being used. 15:00:11 ah! 15:00:19 This ability meets the criteria for being a mana ability, therefore it can be used. 15:00:21 Suppress Quality - how does this affect landwalk? 15:00:59 and what does "not choosing any parameters" mean? 15:01:00 Causes all landwalk abilities to be lost. 15:01:16 It means you have to choose Landwalk, you can't choose Forestwalk or Swampwalk or whatever. 15:01:21 oh! 15:01:30 You can use Protection, but not Protection from red or whatever like that. 15:01:52 then put a comma before it, or possibly even rewrite it to more readable 15:02:09 I thought it would apply only to parameterless keyword abilities like flying or trample, not parametered ones like enchant 15:02:13 Yes it could be rewritten but I am not quite sure how. 15:02:35 so this works like that Wall thingy 15:02:45 Rolling Stones 15:02:51 only better because it can destroy all auras 15:03:11 Its cost is so high because it can do so many things. 15:03:15 Tiny Shard - what? 15:04:01 The ability does nothing when it resolves. 15:04:11 oh, then maybe write that explicitly 15:04:54 OK 15:05:25 Totem Weakness - nice 15:05:49 that's one of those auras that you can play for your own or an opponent's monster 15:06:08 Triangle of Protection - NO WAY! 15:07:24 hmm 15:07:34 it might work, I dunno, but it's scary 15:08:14 especially at such a low cost 15:08:36 Yes, I thought maybe it should be increased, but I don't know how much. 15:09:11 Unearthed Arcana - again what 15:09:16 what's that good for? 15:09:35 I mean, how is it better than the same thing without splice? 15:09:36 Splicing other cards onto it mainly, I suppose. 15:09:46 oh 15:09:47 I see 15:09:56 splicing stuff on it... yes, that might work 15:10:22 thuogh we have better cards for that, like Reach Through Mists 15:10:34 but why does it have the splice ability? 15:10:39 how does that help it? 15:10:51 Arcane helps you splice stuff on it, or lets you trigger stuff 15:10:55 but splice why? 15:11:04 Possibly something might do something with that, even if no such card currently exists, I don't know for sure. 15:13:00 Universal Salvation - nice 15:13:09 -!- skj3gg has joined. 15:13:23 Wall of Attachment - doesn't seem very useful, but whatever 15:13:46 hmm wait 15:13:50 it might be useful 15:13:55 dunno 15:14:05 not sure if it is useful or not 15:15:26 Wall of Demons - seems not very efficient to me 15:15:57 but at least some people still like walls, even walls with power. wizards seems to have stopped printing them. 15:16:57 thanks for sharing these cards 15:17:10 OK 15:18:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Trinary]]": Obsolete redirect 15:21:52 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:22:16 Later I might write some more, but, not right now! 15:22:22 or they reprint Wall of Wood over Steel Wall 15:23:01 Larry Wall 15:50:48 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:51:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:55:59 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 15:59:29 <[{Oren}]> gcc -Wall 16:17:43 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 16:26:48 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 16:34:50 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:35:51 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 16:39:56 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:40:47 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 16:41:19 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 16:42:31 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:45:42 -!- skj3gg has joined. 16:45:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:45:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Changing host). 16:45:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:51:38 -!- boily has joined. 17:03:57 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:04:53 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:06:02 -!- dianne has joined. 17:08:48 @metar CYQB 17:08:49 CYQB 041700Z 08015G21KT 3SM -FZRA -SN OVC020 M08/M10 A2970 RMK SN2SC6 PRESFR SLP062 17:15:13 -!- perrier has joined. 17:24:46 Happy -FZRA -SN day to you, too. 17:24:55 @metar EGLL 17:24:55 EGLL 041720Z VRB04KT 4100 BR FEW002 SCT003 BKN004 03/02 Q1036 NOSIG 17:25:05 I don't know what BR means. 17:25:32 (But those are some pretty low clouds.) 17:26:19 BR is apparently mist, due to what is undoubtedly a perfectly logical reason. 17:27:21 iirc it's from the french word for mist 17:27:21 @metar EDDL 17:27:22 EDDL 041720Z 25005KT 9999 FEW020 03/01 Q1035 NOSIG 17:27:23 BR is French «brouillard». 17:27:40 hellolsner. you ninjaed me. 17:28:00 helloily 17:29:10 I recalled a shorter word though, something like brume 17:31:47 oh. hm. mistake on my part. sorry. 17:31:58 BR is «brume», which is “mist”. 17:32:10 («brouillard» is “fog”.) 17:33:33 but then, according to the wikipédias, the terms refer to similar meteorological phenomenons, and are used differently depending on context. 17:36:01 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 17:36:12 -!- kcm1700_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:36:48 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:39:50 -!- ^v has joined. 17:39:53 -!- PixelToast has joined. 17:39:54 `quote metar 17:39:55 989) metar lead to canada, more metar and cows 17:41:04 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 17:51:22 `quote field of cows 17:51:23 No output. 17:51:30 `quote field full of cows 17:51:31 No output. 17:51:34 `quote cows 17:51:34 401) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. \ 989) metar lead to canada, more metar and cows \ 995) man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile o 17:51:50 I wanted that first one 17:52:11 `quote Taneb.*?cows 17:52:12 401) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. 17:52:19 Oooh 17:52:20 ooooh, regexpes! 17:52:23 I did not know you could do that 17:52:29 neither did I. 17:53:14 `quote through a cow 17:53:15 995) man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile of cows you have previously put your arms through on your own time for fun please provide at least two zebrafish you have modified to glow in the dark 18:00:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:00:39 It's just a grep. 18:02:25 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 18:11:45 boily! 18:14:12 quintopia! 18:14:27 fizzie: egrep or pgrep? 18:14:39 `` cat bin/quote 18:14:40 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 18:14:49 (ah, pgrep.) 18:15:01 you sure havent been on steam in a long time mr. cuttle 18:15:36 -!- david8956 has joined. 18:15:45 hi 18:15:54 helo 18:16:24 -!- david8956 has left. 18:16:49 quintopia: >_>;... 18:18:09 is it work? work is too busy? 18:18:43 yeah. and tomorrow it starts again. bleh. 18:20:03 yeah same here 18:20:13 i need a better job 18:20:15 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 18:20:35 anyone know a job with benefits and normal hours 18:21:53 hours are normal here, and always within standard deviation. 18:21:53 random coder job? if you don't end up having to do overtime, that is 18:22:56 yeah sure 18:23:24 boily what is the stdev of hours there? 18:23:42 and are you sure they arent skewed left? 18:24:53 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:25:46 -!- arjanb has joined. 18:26:32 quintopia: a workday amounts to 7.5 hours (contract definition), but longest I've had was 9, I believe. 18:26:52 (previous job was much worse. personal record was 14 hours straight, on a Saturday.) 18:26:55 and shortest? 18:27:22 without appointments and similar, 7 I think? 18:28:37 and how often is it 7 and how often is it 9? 18:30:15 we've had a bout of light workload after the big Major Release, and heavy duty just before that. 18:31:10 (not many people overtimed like crazy. I did a few days because I self-inflicted some stupid bright ideas on myself... in the end it did work out and saved the company a non-homeopathic amount of money, but never again.) 18:31:44 haha 18:31:50 well 18:31:59 what about me man 18:32:06 you man? 18:32:08 got anything for me? 18:32:45 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:33:07 we're always open to people who can make their way with Java and/or C++, know linear algebra, and French. 18:33:08 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 18:34:51 well that last one is a deal breaker. i havent the froggiedt how to frenxh 18:34:52 -!- PixelToast has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:35:14 -!- PixelToast has joined. 18:37:19 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:39:05 p 18:42:04 frenxhp? 18:42:31 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 18:42:55 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:43:25 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 18:43:25 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Client Quit). 18:46:49 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 18:52:14 klb n,. 18:53:11 ... sorry, cat thought the best path to the other side of the couch was across my computer 18:55:52 -!- [{Oren}] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:56:38 [{Helloren}] 19:02:33 Orbyen? 19:25:02 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Crewjony * New user account 19:26:36 [wiki] [[User talk:Crewjony]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41597 * Crewjony * (+74) Created page with "0x29A is an esoteric programming language, invented by David Lewis in 2004" 19:27:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:29:40 That's a strange. 19:30:02 I mean, it's the captcha question. 19:30:56 I suspect it's a spambot 19:31:06 desperately looking for anything apparently relevant to put on the page 19:42:46 `unicode smiley face 19:42:47 No output. 19:42:48 hmm 19:43:02 Somebody could make unicode captchas 19:43:27 And then you have to enter the exact name of the character according to unicode 19:43:37 `unicode small rectangle 19:43:37 No output. 19:43:42 `unicode rectangle 19:43:42 U+2327 X IN A RECTANGLE BOX \ UTF-8: e2 8c a7 UTF-16BE: 2327 Decimal: ⌧ \ ⌧ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+25AC BLACK RECTANGLE \ UTF-8: e2 96 ac UTF-16BE: 25ac Decimal: ▬ \ ▬ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+25AD WHITE RECTANGLE \ UTF-8: e2 96 ad UTF-16BE: 25a 19:44:17 "Sorry, your answer 'X IN A RECTANGLE' was wrong." 19:56:06 Sorry, your answer 'invisible plus' was wrong. 20:05:03 Make up a character and a name, and it has to get accepted into Unicode 20:09:59 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:12:11 Sgeo, GIRAFFE WEARING ROLLERBLADES EMOJI 20:12:52 If it doesn't look like a giraffe wearing rollerblades, I think we can conclude you're not human 20:39:01 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:52:14 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 20:54:39 -!- graue has joined. 20:55:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:57:53 -!- kcm1700_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:58:01 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 20:58:08 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:03:01 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 21:08:03 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 21:08:17 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:08:40 is there any golfy way to swap the first two elements of a haskell list? 21:09:33 myname: swapHeads (x1:x2:xs) = x2:x1:xs; swapHeads xs = xs ? 21:09:45 coppro: that was pretty much what I was going to write 21:09:54 but with a 1-letter name because it's golfed ;-) 21:12:26 -!- adu has joined. 21:30:40 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 21:32:13 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:32:25 -!- kcm1700_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:33:51 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 21:35:13 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:35:32 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 21:36:18 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:47:55 -!- Solace has joined. 22:01:19 Uh yeah FreeFull 22:01:45 Although this was yesterday and I have no furthur need to talk about it 22:10:00 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HAPAX CHICKEN). 22:11:36 -!- graue has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:25:03 `2014 22:25:04 No output. 22:36:09 `2016 22:36:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 2016: not found 22:45:25 ais523, did you forget what year it was 22:45:32 Taneb: no 22:45:35 just making sure it's still working 22:45:55 how could it concievably not work? 22:57:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:06:32 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:06:56 -!- paul2520 has joined. 23:11:25 aw, I mised graue 23:11:29 missed 23:11:30 I think LSL poisoned my brain 23:11:54 Trying to do Javascript. Desperately avoiding global variables by abusing closures. Everything is in one large function 23:12:54 that's, um... literally what idiomatic javascript does 23:14:03 That makes me feel better 23:14:04 -!- kcm1700_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:14:14 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 23:14:17 fizzie: ais523: crewjony is obviously Johny of My name is Johny, what the F**K????? 23:14:29 the prophecy is coming true 23:15:01 Sgeo: like, you've seen the (function () { ... })(); thing, right? 23:15:08 Yes 23:16:21 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: zzz). 23:17:42 elliott: wasn't that a spambot, though? 23:17:48 also, did you ever write that language? 23:18:08 ais523: you clearly have no understanding of the scriptures 23:18:18 the language can only be created by johny himself 23:23:02 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 23:23:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:24:32 elliott: finally it all makes sense 23:27:15 desperately looking for anything apparently relevant to put on the page <-- it's the spambot of the beast hth 23:27:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:37:08 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 23:43:52 -!- Frooxius has joined.