< 1420590122 622658 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must buy milk tomorrow... < 1420591577 68609 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1420591626 364855 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07XRF14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41612 5* 03Scoppini 5* (+3618) 10Created page with "'''XRF''' is a [[stack]]-based [[esoteric programming language]] designed by [[User:Scoppini]] in 2015. ==Overview== XRF operates on a stack of nonnegative integers of arbit..." < 1420591666 298465 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Scoppini14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41613 5* 03Scoppini 5* (+30) 10Created page with "Hello there. I created [[XRF]]" < 1420591921 51876 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420591940 332659 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm still pondering the question of whether or not there's a "standard arithmetically sound theory". < 1420591964 183829 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's "obvious" that Peano arithmetic is arithmetically sound. After all, all its axioms are true. < 1420591979 278041 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd definitely say it's "not obvious" that ZFC is arithmetically sound. After all, all its axioms are made up. < 1420592007 835224 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: are you pondering platonism? < 1420592021 291146 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1420592027 945011 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what I mean by "standard" here. < 1420592029 374329 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have been pondering that for a while < 1420592054 257750 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you just take as an axiom every "obvious" first-order statement about the natural numbers? < 1420592062 312339 :dianne_!~diannes@pool-96-248-225-91.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420592069 64363 :dianne_!~diannes@pool-96-248-225-91.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Changing host < 1420592069 107620 :dianne_!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1420592071 47422 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1420592073 541343 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PA does approximately that, of course. < 1420592073 756903 :dianne_!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne NICK :dianne < 1420592657 54553 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. Consider PA-0, a synonym of PA. PA-0 is arithmetically sound. < 1420592673 45033 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now consider PA-0 + "PA-0 is arithmetically sound". Is this theory arithmetically sound? < 1420592687 612746 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you did was add a true axiom to an arithmetically sound theory. < 1420592734 365887 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If all the axioms of a theory are true, then the theory must be arithmetically sound. Right? Is that how that works? < 1420592752 225541 :^v!~^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1420592757 445127 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :PA-0 + "PA-0 is arithmetically sound" != PA-0 though. < 1420592777 280812 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1420592806 861459 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't you want to check that the newly-added axiom doesn't cause any paradoxes when used together with the old axioms? < 1420592818 916892 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you would. < 1420592839 701247 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But truth is closed under modus ponens. < 1420592854 386024 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if all the axioms of a theory are true, and the only inference rule is modus ponens, then all the consequences of the theory are true. < 1420592900 725309 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if PA-0 is arithmetically sound, then PA-0 + "PA-0 is arithmetically sound" is arithmetically sound. I think. < 1420592905 201251 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So call the new theory PA-1. < 1420592959 37796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Gödel night < 1420592972 16491 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I sense a paradox. Doesn't PA-1 prove that PA-1 is arithmetically sound? < 1420592976 132167 :^v!~^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420593047 387114 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PA-1 proves that PA-0 is arithmetically sound. Therefore, PA-1 proves that every theorem of PA-0 is true. Does PA-1 prove that the statement "PA-0 is arithematically sound" is true? < 1420593155 711195 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.38 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420593178 276013 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420593179 352038 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does, then PA-1 proves that every axiom of PA-0 + "PA-0 is arithmetically sound" is true. Which is to say, PA-1 proves that every axiom of PA-1 is true. < 1420593193 900891 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm pretty sure that PA-1 actually doesn't prove that the statement "PA-0 is arithmetically sound" is true. < 1420593215 27753 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, I don't think you can define truth in PA-1. < 1420593294 628484 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we're good. < 1420593308 695036 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.38 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420593314 930481 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the same argument, PA-1 + "PA-1 is arithmetically sound" is arithmetically sound. Call this theory PA-2. < 1420593328 97823 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420593343 380676 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, by the same argument, PA + "PA-n is arithmetically sound for all natural numbers n". Call this theory PA-omega. < 1420593373 293222 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there's also PA-omega+1, which is PA-omega + "PA-omega is arithmetically sound". < 1420593382 176989 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. < 1420593393 465079 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arithmetic soundness can't be defined in arithmetic. Whoops. < 1420593409 8525 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, pretend that instead of "arithmetically sound", I said "consistent", everywhere above. < 1420593445 12828 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it almost seems like for any ordinal number p, we can define the system PA-p as PA + "PA-n is consisten for all ordinal numbers n less than p". < 1420593472 811620 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this depends on "ordinal number less than p" being definable in arithmetic. < 1420593601 6520 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which raises a simple question. < 1420593634 557590 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How large can ordinal numbers go before their arithmetic niceness starts to break down? < 1420593825 678562 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ought to be some ordinal number p which is the smallest ordinal number p such that "ordinal number less than p" isn't definable in arithmetic. < 1420594222 832283 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lisp2d14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41614 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+1604) 10creational < 1420595083 939249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Deewiant https://github.com/shinh/beflisp/blob/master/beflisp.bef !!! < 1420595084 139406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1420595878 161182 :arjanb!8259a9cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.89.169.203 QUIT :Quit: zzz < 1420596105 644144 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nlfnjqqveghxcols PRIVMSG #esoteric :blob < 1420596485 145400 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420596522 147805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1420597267 570288 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might make more sense if whether or not a loyalty ability has already been used in one turn is also a status of a permanent, so that all permanents are initially "ready" each turn (regardless who controls it) but then a loyalty ability makes it to be unready so that it cannot be used again. I don't know entirely, but, it make a few sense to me. < 1420597355 822609 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. By Godel's completeness theorem, a statement is provable in a theory if and only if it is true in all models of the theory. I think. Something like that. < 1420597386 373467 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So coming up with a "standard obviously arithmetically sound theory" is, I suppose, the same thing as coming up with a standard collection of models of arithmetic. < 1420597428 839047 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the collection has to include some non-standard models. < 1420597624 625720 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But which ones? < 1420597658 531212 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1420597756 8223 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1420597768 231314 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420597769 368348 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1420597769 411588 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420597796 91046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If you think the rules are mistaken, you can write Wizards of the Coast, I think. < 1420597809 922920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact you can ven write them when you're not sure about a ruling. Or so I hear. < 1420597983 205964 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1420598143 366779 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rulings department of their customer service is actually really good < 1420598157 254567 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the rules manager takes questions on tumblr, but normally gives snarky replies for amusement value < 1420598204 494965 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.38 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420598233 500195 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420598544 391136 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules are either mistaken or unclear, I am unsure which. (Possibly both.) < 1420598657 447334 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I don't think that "PA-0 is artihmetically sound" is expressible in first-order logic, at least not using the language of PA. (Truth in the standard model of PA is not definable in PA.) So it's unclear what PA-1 is; it has to differ from PA-0 in more than just the axioms. < 1420598705 325013 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right, arithmetic soundness can't be defined in arithmetic. < 1420598779 345640 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So pretend I said "consistent" instead. < 1420598879 434622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the rules for declaring an attack, it never says they are "declared as an attacker". At first it says creatures are "chosen", and later on some of them "become an attacking creature". It doesn't seem to properly define "declared as an attacker" as far as I can tell. < 1420598980 855960 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`decodeunicode  < 1420598981 639908 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: decodeunicode: not found < 1420598988 395007 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode  < 1420598991 134411 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+F17A - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef 85 ba UTF-16BE: f17a Decimal:  \  () \ Uppercase: U+F17A \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) < 1420599180 203189 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ok. Then PA-1 is consistent if PA-0 is; and if PA-1 has the standard model as a model then it actually proves that PA-0 is consistent. Very circular. < 1420599228 751748 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're saying that if PA-0 (which is to say, PA) is consistent, then PA-1 (which is to say, PA + "PA is consistent") is consistent? < 1420599238 924309 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1420599261 638060 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's provable in ZFC. < 1420599263 592818 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because we know that consistency of PA is independent of the axioms of PA; it can neither be proved nor disproved in PA. < 1420599277 655869 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a meta-theorem, of course. < 1420599336 561773 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside the theory, there's no doubt that PA-1 proves consistency of PA-0. It's just unclear whether PA-1 has a model ;-) < 1420599341 561806 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1420599373 404757 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the meaning of "consistency" changes in non-standard models; you can have non-standard proves. < 1420599381 626338 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*proofs (ouch) < 1420599415 370629 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1420599418 559388 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is why (PA + "PA is inconsistent") is consistent, assuming PA is.) < 1420599445 551255 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/why/how/ < 1420599555 459840 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, do you know where i could read about a nonstandard consistency proof? < 1420599721 115986 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't anything to what I said beyond Gödel's Incompleteness theorem (and surrounding theory of first-order logic, like compactness, Löwenheim-Skolem, and Gödel's completeness theorem). < 1420599753 214630 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a statement that is independent of the axioms of PA, then you can add the statement itself or its negation to the axioms and obtain a consistent theory. < 1420599754 830298 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, non-standard proofs are just non-standard integers with the property of being proofs. < 1420599764 847915 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one of these theories will have the standard model of PA as a model. < 1420599773 361117 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just read about non-standard numbers. < 1420599786 628518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of numbers, what are some interesting characterizations of the reals? < 1420599887 237429 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. That's the question. Right, Gödel encodes proofs as natural numbers. Since there is a proof of false in our new theory, and because we know that no natural number corresponds to a proof of false, there must be a non-natural number in some model (that's a non-standard number) that is interpreted as a "proof" for false; that's what I meant by non-standard proof. < 1420599934 89354 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is likely to present an infinite, possibly circular, proof tree.) < 1420600065 468856 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont really understand about nonstandard consistency proof, I thinkI got mixed up < 1420600078 169971 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :a consistency proof just shows the theory valid < 1420600086 268073 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :we get nonstandard models from the godel stuff < 1420600108 226852 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: No. We have expressed "T(PA) is consistent" as a first-order sentence in PA itself. < 1420600142 618171 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: Basically that's "For all n, n does not represent a proof of 0=1." < 1420600192 150351 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: the negation is "There exists an n such that n represents a proof of 0=1". And that statement is true in models of "PA + PA is inconsistent" < 1420600227 519681 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow!!! < 1420600239 249704 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck :) < 1420600248 774036 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: But such models are non-standard models, so 'n' does not have to be a natural number. And that changes the meaning of "n represents a proof of 0=1" to include things that are not actually proofs. < 1420600263 258796 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see! thanks for explaining it to me < 1420600268 250024 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats very mind bending < 1420600283 725306 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers are called non-standard numbers, and that term naturally carries over to the proofs that such numbers represent. < 1420600621 908349 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. A theory can assert that there exists a natural number n satisfying a property P, while also, for every natural number n, asserting that n does not satisfy the property P. < 1420600633 781191 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, this is called omega-inconsistency. < 1420600640 553515 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't actually a type of inconsistency. < 1420600971 98571 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1420601364 584397 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :drunkplatypus < 1420601417 345831 :drunkplatypus!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1420601811 404641 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420602003 352625 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1420602063 752057 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420602068 712892 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahoy. < 1420602102 840978 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm trying to think how successfully you could define the ordinal numbers in arithmetic. < 1420602146 893270 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can define the definable ones, and probably can't define the undefinable ones < 1420602172 220783 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, how successfully you could define "ordinal number". < 1420602177 193381 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1420602241 259451 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :As successfully as any other recursively enumerable theory can < 1420602301 85707 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are a couple definitions of a recursive ordinal (one less than the Church-Kleene ordinal), all equivalent. One is a computer program calculating a well-order on the natural numbers. < 1420602362 121298 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure how you could define "computer program calculating a well-order on the natural numbers" in arithmetic. < 1420602374 642106 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can define a computer program calculating a total order. < 1420602384 929477 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you define wellness of an order? < 1420602470 683288 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can't. < 1420602513 682636 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in FOL you can't. < 1420602608 826377 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not quite true. If you regard set theory as a first-order theory with \in as a constant then of course you can... < 1420602628 764854 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want ordinals as arithmetic functions? < 1420602637 440882 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I'm thinking first-order logic over the integers. < 1420602665 81927 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in PA, with a defined relation on natural numbers, you can't express that the relation is well-founded. < 1420602674 152616 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1420602698 129697 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if we go way back to that thing I was trying to do... < 1420602700 81087 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41615&oldid=41596 5* 03Scoppini 5* (+10) 10 < 1420602749 106419 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an ordinal number p, I wanted to define PA-p as PA + "PA-n is consistent for all ordinal numbers n less than p". < 1420602760 850179 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you know what's completely possible? < 1420602788 639162 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can take all true statements and collect them in a first-order theory. < 1420602807 452147 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It escapes Gödel's incompleteness theorem because it's not a recursive theory. < 1420602828 739262 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :("truth" being w.r.t. the standard model) < 1420602842 241707 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any set T that's well-founded and hereditarily recursively enumerable, you can define PA-T as PA + "PA-S is consistent for all elements S of T". < 1420602923 771687 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think you can weaken "recursively enumerable" to permit oracle machines or whatever. < 1420603413 432297 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, T just has to be well-founded and the collection of all its hereditary elements has to have a definable membership relation. < 1420603451 194942 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the smallest ordinal number which fails to have that property? < 1420603553 210012 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that can be rephrased like so: what's the smallest infinite ordinal number that isn't the order type of a well-ordering of the natural numbers which is definable using only quantifiers over the natural numbers? < 1420603575 239334 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it this one, which came up here recently? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church-Kleene_ordinal < 1420603606 250421 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's not. < 1420603612 898263 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to answer such questions. < 1420603686 647831 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there are several other funny ordinals linked from that page. < 1420603781 690621 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it is that one. < 1420603811 340440 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. I gotta sleep. < 1420603811 601787 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nlfnjqqveghxcols QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1420603816 982488 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night, everyone. < 1420604174 638672 :tswett!~tswett@c-98-243-16-185.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420604253 875154 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1420604929 284470 :skj3gg!~skj3gg@unaffiliated/skj3gg JOIN :#esoteric < 1420605169 481173 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.38 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1420605717 287332 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420606119 707774 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1420606680 919307 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bc2bef.cc's genInt should totally be using fungify... but I don't think it'll make it much more efficient < 1420606705 734571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much work a full LLVM backend would be :p < 1420606847 690916 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's missing? < 1420606963 373332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe nothing? the converter looked kinda short. < 1420606978 904286 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1420607028 194069 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least function definitions and calls, it seems < 1420607409 662409 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1420608775 936674 :skj3gg!~skj3gg@unaffiliated/skj3gg QUIT :Quit: ZZZzzz… < 1420609057 661832 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy JOIN :#esoteric < 1420609065 68327 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Quit: mitchs < 1420609648 641919 :skj3gg!~skj3gg@unaffiliated/skj3gg JOIN :#esoteric < 1420609695 690849 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Dojo is any good < 1420609704 636987 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1420611630 987993 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1420612050 180172 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Quit: mitchs < 1420612161 974103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1420612214 116958 :^v!~^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Network ban < 1420612351 595900 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee! http://jsfiddle.net/aenerkoh/1/ < 1420612384 771934 :skj3gg!~skj3gg@unaffiliated/skj3gg QUIT :Quit: ZZZzzz… < 1420612515 379969 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt work < 1420612569 763757 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Does your browser support innerText? < 1420612577 834282 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, what's wrong with it exactly? < 1420612579 511066 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using //@ to indicate sourceURL pragmas is deprecated. Use //# instead < 1420612603 291860 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't you use textContent instead of innerText? < 1420612619 130461 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably, but was lazy and only using it for debugging < 1420612621 475167 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go change it < 1420612644 658782 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :textContent doesn't support \n? < 1420612653 494821 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1420612671 706883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine that it does, and behaves the same as typing a newline into the HTML yourself. < 1420612672 182325 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :textContent version: http://jsfiddle.net/aenerkoh/2/ < 1420612683 996622 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why does \n work with innerText? < 1420612693 341773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Isn't innerText an IE thing? < 1420612709 970362 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working for me in Chrome < 1420614129 285716 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07XRF14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41616&oldid=41612 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+91) 10Corrected 'E' and clarified 'A' a bit. < 1420614748 89638 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07XRF14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41617&oldid=41616 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+27) 10'E' again, now it should be right. < 1420615220 41001 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn < 1420615301 644118 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think those procedures with the humbled aura I described yesterday don't really work. The problem is that they create an aura permanent that isn't attached to anything and is already on the battlefield, so it will be put to the graveyard by state-based effects before you could do anything. < 1420615317 706045 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to somehow humble an aura that is already attached, which seems much more difficult. < 1420615410 566191 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that could still be done somehow < 1420615453 281431 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41618&oldid=41477 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+325) 10Added XRF. < 1420615556 800899 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me thing... < 1420615668 241213 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07XRF14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41619&oldid=41617 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+57) 10Linked a truth-machine. < 1420615956 748567 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make Mizzium Transreliquat copy Cranial Plating with the second ability. Stack the ability to make it copy Holy Strength (Liquimetal Coated), then stack the Plating's ability to attach it to a bear. Then Animate Artifact it (using Teferi), Humble it, Shatter the Animate, resolve the attach (valid because it's an equipment), resolve the copy. Now it's an attached humbled aura. < 1420615962 225789 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^ < 1420616023 394978 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we trying to do? < 1420616084 517286 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: get a state where you have an aura permanent with no "enchant" ability, < 1420616119 216012 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the rules aren't quite clear what such a permanent can be attached to in a valid way, so it's unclear whether it can even remain on the battlefield, and what you can reattach it to (such as with Simic Guildmage) < 1420616152 459226 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty is that it has to be a _noncreature_ aura < 1420616159 191607 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a creature aura doesn't hang along for long enough < 1420616189 256546 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has to be attached or just coming into play, because an unattached aura doesn't hang along for long enough either < 1420616219 201833 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first attempted solution was to manifest a Holy Strength, then Humble it, then Break Open it < 1420616227 693666 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it's not attached to anything < 1420616263 8997 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way I think it can remain attached, because a humbled non-cretaure equipment can clearly remain attached < 1420616356 382664 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's possible < 1420616369 924587 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? does the procedure I said not work? < 1420616472 295730 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't know the rules for manifest < 1420616482 260393 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the complicated one I said doesn't use manifest < 1420616496 935006 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't use anything newer than ravnica (mirrodin I think actually) < 1420616509 379918 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Mizzium Transreliquat < 1420616513 309516 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let me read it < 1420616523 356580 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no wait < 1420616534 916837 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir from Time Spiral < 1420616557 27497 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the older way to replace that, putting an aura into play at instant speed? < 1420616591 843205 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok yeah, I think that works < 1420616602 364963 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, no < 1420616608 432644 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an aura creature, so it goes to the graveyard < 1420616622 726442 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does happen, but only momentarily < 1420616641 886176 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't become an aura before we shatter the animate artifact < 1420616659 916283 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1420616698 293771 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I need "Animate Artifact", an aura, rather than an instant, but I wonder how to get around that without using Teferi < 1420616795 254843 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :orrery? < 1420616807 718711 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :teferi doesn't let you cast noncreatures at instant-speed either < 1420616813 276467 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1420616820 424986 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need Vedalken Orrery < 1420616841 75282 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't there some older card that just lets me either cast an enchantment card or put it into play at instant speed? < 1420616860 235748 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Vedalken Orrery works of course < 1420616926 586529 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :March of the Machines works instead of Animate Artifact, but that doesn't really help < 1420617231 468381 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19736 < 1420617295 913862 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(via http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Flash ) < 1420617301 855852 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1420617305 491710 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vernal Equinox < 1420617432 102235 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so either Vernal Equinox or Vedalken Orrery works < 1420617556 468806 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1420617725 28697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420617756 169250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1420617765 52692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420617798 332174 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also Hypergenesis cast with Quicken, but Hypergenesis is way too new < 1420617805 128636 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420617828 979697 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we found a problem with that construction of the non-creature aura without enchant, but I think we found a way to fix it with zzo38 < 1420617832 537448 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping < 1420617836 714867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1420617867 536891 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that our previous constructions create an aura that isn't attached to anything and isn't just right now coming to play, so it's put to the gy as a state-based effect and doesn't live long enough < 1420617873 425337 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fix is this: < 1420617888 560454 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make Mizzium Transreliquat copy Cranial Plating with the second ability. Stack the ability to make it copy Holy Strength (Liquimetal Coated), < 1420617921 429599 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then stack the Plating's ability to attach it to a bear. Then Animate Artifact it (using Vedalken Orrery or Vernal Equinox), Humble it, Shatter the Animate, resolve the attach (valid because it's an equipment), resolve the copy. < 1420617925 882788 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's an attached humbled aura. < 1420617960 439883 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trick is that while it's a non-creature equipment, it can unquestionable remain attached to a bear even if it's humbled. < 1420618079 373601 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what is the intention of this rule, "Auras that can enchant a player can target and be attached to players. Such Auras can’t target permanents and can’t be attached to permanents." < 1420618087 679763 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So before the final step, resolving the copy of an aura, you have to have a humbled non-creature equipment attached to a creature. < 1420618126 868041 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humble doesn't change types or subtypes. < 1420618156 587245 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Without the Enchant ability, the aura can target players, hence not permanents? ...) < 1420618183 906029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You mean, why is it necessary? < 1420618212 182040 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I doubt it's necessary, I think it's answering an FAQ. < 1420618221 808196 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or trying to, anyway. < 1420618247 894074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are a lot of rules that just clarify things and aren't strictly necessary. < 1420618483 106350 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm trying to figure out the effect of that rule in the absence of Enchant abilities, with "Copy Enchantment" in mind. AFAIU, you play that spell, and choose a target. When it resolves, you replace it by an Aura on the battlefield. But there's no "Enchant" ability in effect when you pick the target. I wonder if that's right... < 1420618511 979002 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, maybe later... < 1420618549 640614 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: There's no targeting as such when you cast it, is there? < 1420618580 402572 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"303.4a An Aura spell requires a target, which is restricted by its enchant ability." < 1420618596 327618 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but Copy Enchantment isn't an Aura spell. < 1420618606 183348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It becomes an aura when it resolves, but it's not a spell at that point. < 1420618613 768515 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Animate Artifact is an uncommon in revised? nice < 1420618628 130176 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's right. < 1420618630 417234 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it's super-cheap < 1420618639 312898 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1420618661 495106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, revised was ages ago < 1420618664 335478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As long as enchanted artifact isn't a creature, it's an artifact creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost." < 1420618670 676759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also ensoul artifact from the most recent core set < 1420618673 592884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo great phrasing < 1420618681 14053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might work a bit better < 1420618687 447534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something about layers, I guess? < 1420618733 757819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the ability can't cancel out its own effect < 1420618741 91575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't look at itself to see whether to trigger or not < 1420618767 51581 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-112-49-198.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1420618784 815243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you don't mean trigger in the game sense of the word. < 1420618806 495908 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't know about Ensoul Artifact, nice < 1420618809 304523 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1420618819 29091 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I wanted to do this with cards from ravnica or older if possible < 1420618836 592298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right, I didn't < 1420618845 214619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Why? < 1420618850 663539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: any reason to favour old cards? < 1420618946 639051 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Container14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41620 5* 03T.J.S.1 5* (+195) 10Created page with "== Implementation == Is there any implementation for this language yet? If not, I might (or might not) write one. ~~~~" < 1420619085 482255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps ravnica is too strict, but I just wanted to make sure it's not something in the rules that's broken only recently and they just hadn't had time to catch up and fix the rules in next set update < 1420619161 546371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rules changes affect old cards too. < 1420619178 855573 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also I don't know cards after m12 well enough, so I want to know that there's rules breakage possible even with cards I should have known, not only with new cards I might have never seen, < 1420619188 347985 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thuogh admittedly it's _my_ fault that I'm not following new sets much < 1420619194 539351 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sure < 1420619203 174715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convoke was in Ravnica, right? < 1420619231 128431 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1420619241 758012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was changed recently. < 1420619245 31257 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1420619302 185528 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420619311 544688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1420619373 999832 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one real rules breakage I found once that has existed from Ravnica to approximately Eventide when I found it and they fixed it < 1420619380 992645 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm proud of that < 1420619441 441969 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it? < 1420619752 244572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: it wasn't specified what Patron of the Akki's "offering" ability does if you sacrifice a hybrid card like Boros Recruit < 1420619804 439996 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1420620848 117445 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1420620998 518565 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07XRF14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41621&oldid=41619 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+434) 10Added a random generator. < 1420621039 345933 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1420621145 360352 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07XRF14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41622&oldid=41621 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+0) 10"top" -> "two" < 1420621269 894627 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?ultimate+problem what's wrong with these statistics? 13 - 0B / 11B / 1B < 1420621391 698105 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitespace is not counted, if that's what you mean < 1420621514 83158 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: it seems like most of those scores are not really following the intent. < 1420621792 904229 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1420621890 955563 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420621992 539008 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1420622028 41815 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420622058 906132 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1420622072 968224 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420622381 192329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.imgur.com/PINcCUy.gif alright which one of you did this < 1420622552 694047 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this?? < 1420622595 769506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :r0nk isn't in this channel hth < 1420622726 932190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: state machine diagram < 1420622774 25326 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitchs: crazy < 1420622785 545339 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you get it < 1420622791 348041 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand @_@ < 1420622792 721600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacker news :( < 1420622832 297438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nodes with two paths to follow are the loop transitions? < 1420622870 143388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/r0nk/ward < 1420622965 15665 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :most interesting is that he seems to have implemented some kind of ASCII art graph layout program < 1420623039 241191 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/r0nk/simplecpu < 1420623048 712819 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is very good at getting to the front page of hackernews < 1420623061 861352 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2 < 1420623398 812799 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said there had to be a down to earth way to put the Animate Artifact to play at instant speed without giving it flash with Vedalken Orrery or Vernal Equinox, and without heavy magic like clockspinned Hypergenesis. There is, though it doesn't improve this construction: < 1420623440 177982 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play the enchantment earlier, exile it with an Oblivion Ring, and get it back at instant speed with Disenchant. < 1420623513 529524 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, the heavy wizardry here is not this part anyway. It's the Mizzium Transreliquat which is the key piece.) < 1420623654 93136 :SopaXT!~Mark@87.228.105.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420623654 400144 :SopaXT!~Mark@87.228.105.48 QUIT :Changing host < 1420623654 443428 :SopaXT!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1420623827 842666 :SopaXT!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :R820T < 1420623927 645838 :R820T!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :R820T2 < 1420623982 160873 :R820T2!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :R820T < 1420624005 753557 :R820T!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :RTL2832U < 1420624060 622403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't seem to be easy to replace either, because I think it's the only card with a "become a copy" ability that can copy from a non-creature. < 1420624118 139061 :RTL2832U!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :SopaXorzTaker < 1420624871 725335 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods his way through a Scala tutorial. < 1420625518 241610 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fsaftbtkldmypwvt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1420626156 291266 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1420626202 162557 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420626410 813579 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :val num = file.map(wordcount).reduceLeft(_ + _) < 1420626412 312791 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1420626456 152886 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to read it from left to right i guess < 1420626509 464203 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT's the use of the double anonymous variable there that makes my head go whaaaa. < 1420626603 166973 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow the BLC thing use a bytecode < 1420626645 128862 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Krivine machine < 1420626653 4924 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1420626663 16849 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly wat worthy is that you can define functions with either a parens'd list (x: Int, y: Int, etc.), *or* with multiple parenthesised arguments, ie. (x: int)(y: int)(etc...) < 1420626670 333822 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap :O this is so cool < 1420626799 316793 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, it also has a carrying for loop like Heresy does. :D < 1420627095 650215 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of a neat idea < 1420627102 381251 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck VIRTUAL MACHINE < 1420627490 524273 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq_uptime < 1420627490 665629 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :5d 13h 47m 50s < 1420627509 263557 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wrote blsqbot a message o_O < 1420627597 846821 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1420627604 930144 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scala can do _ + _ < 1420627611 599361 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which roughly translates as \x y -> x + y? < 1420627636 858739 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: seems that way, yeah. < 1420627644 326830 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1420627645 173516 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok < 1420627657 545039 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you don't need \x y -> x + x :) < 1420627719 344196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1420627967 868901 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does the wiki have to be so slow :( < 1420627994 360162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: because it runs on a free cloud server < 1420628009 102305 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a free cloud server < 1420628018 944017 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as you can see, they're crap < 1420628021 303289 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know if I can run mirage app for free? < 1420628047 974399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have a vps/cloud server himself so isn't the right person to ask < 1420628050 469738 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I created a gopher server i dont know if you're interested < 1420628335 983624 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1420628342 177892 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to host a proxy of the esowiki :) < 1420628346 142733 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which.. < 1420628352 838167 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be faster but will be out of date of course :D < 1420628427 48554 :mhi^!~mhi@104.131.27.185 PART :#esoteric < 1420628452 835920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful or you might end up hosting the wiki itself < 1420628665 331879 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :im writing a brainfuck compiler in ocaml < 1420628687 437736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1420628891 127675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is with that child in the kindergarten across the street < 1420628926 782265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody screaming < 1420628937 892766 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1420629157 620563 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, my vision and graphics exam is in two hours, I guess I can sympathize with the child < 1420629207 402782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's that kind of scream < 1420629234 373340 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1420629273 86143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to find a more precise term but wikipedia/wiktionary is useless for distinguishing them < 1420629279 275776 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420629298 97561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just say it's probably not out of pain < 1420629324 156486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and contains no sign of a vowel < 1420629441 686615 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1420629692 908467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling "types of screams" appears to find metal music discussions < 1420629741 582728 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe < 1420629774 815326 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like metal < 1420629783 583365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i don't. < 1420629785 983037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1420629809 115113 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall now play Mario instead of last minute cramming < 1420629817 193987 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :metal is the dubstep of non-electronic music < 1420629818 910434 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon if I don't know something by now I am not going to know it < 1420629867 78638 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanelle. which Mario? < 1420629868 112263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: i ... don't think i like dubstep either, although i have heard very little of it. (the only one i recall was a parody one by ylvis) < 1420629884 359661 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, the Nintendo plumber guy < 1420629889 740752 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(New Super Mario Bros 2) < 1420629899 285023 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, twnhbnih. < 1420629923 453070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: wtfayba < 1420629948 117500 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, not everyone likes harsh semi-melodicness < 1420629955 143929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEEED. < 1420629971 893141 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That Was Not Helping But Now It Helps. < 1420629993 256074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. tdh. < 1420630039 141789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is always nervous when he tries to remember how to trick the hth script into getting punctuation past it. < 1420630046 752119 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah i woke up at 3 am today... < 1420630056 923738 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it breakfast time yet???? < 1420630077 913731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: well i just ate breakfast, it's 12:30 PM hth < 1420630097 541176 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're 6 hours ahead of me < 1420630128 903462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like i'm zoned out ... of time < 1420630142 620330 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey oren < 1420630151 506130 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1420630228 650201 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell boily: i'm 21 < 1420630251 507934 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily: i'm 21 < 1420630251 551592 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1420630285 227553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: i don't think poor boily: will ever manage to get that message, seeing as he's an illegal character < 1420630291 385608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1420630295 460659 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...??? < 1420630301 786033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there was an excemption for : < 1420630308 794522 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1420630309 103541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren said 57s ago: i'm 21 < 1420630315 792830 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, there was < 1420630321 720677 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :massages? < 1420630328 552382 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: you're 21? it's your birthday? < 1420630332 251959 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: massages. < 1420630334 148223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-lewd < 1420630334 191460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1420630398 547582 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily asked 14d 12h 18m 35s ago: What are your approximate ages? < 1420630441 605713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is lambdabot acting up with its messages again or have you really been away all that time? < 1420630452 243648 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has absolutely no recollection ever having had asked that... < 1420630464 243404 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Bot is Law, and I follow it. < 1420630468 439759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i think i vaguely recollect it < 1420630499 257850 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1420630499 302307 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1420630508 320421 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages < 1420630508 363792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1420630514 639254 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@missages < 1420630514 682470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1420630520 452177 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1420630562 980907 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do a distance measure to the nearest command? < 1420630624 299678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, with a maximum of 2 < 1420630709 814171 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :handy < 1420630724 906878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@info sometimes a bit confusing though < 1420630725 8976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes a bit confusing though < 1420630780 405756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your exercise shall be to find out which command that _actually_ triggered) < 1420631053 851525 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@echo probably this one? < 1420631053 934634 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo probably this one?"]} target:#esoteric rest:"probably this one?" < 1420631070 786585 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1420631087 227686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1420631234 783896 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kind maybe this < 1420631235 794596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: type variable ‘maybe’ < 1420631235 838219 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: type variable ‘this’ < 1420631458 78937 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@inf foobar < 1420631458 122525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: wn unpf ping kind id bf < 1420631467 517375 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpf foobar < 1420631467 560646 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :foobar < 1420631471 542673 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there a chdirat system call? < 1420631503 341778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1420631527 45686 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 32 bit -1 ? < 1420631543 19423 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: it's not @unpf although it may be tricky to tell - the edit distance is too large < 1420631544 759108 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ _1+<.2^32 < 1420631545 557337 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xFFFFFFFE ? < 1420631558 556487 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint 0xFFFFFFFF < 1420631559 80720 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4294967295 < 1420631569 151900 :j-bot!~j-bot@li339-21.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1420631573 467511 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ _1+<.2^32 < 1420631573 875141 :j-bot!~j-bot@li339-21.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 4294967295 < 1420631595 474517 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint ~0 < 1420631596 83232 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18446744073709551615 < 1420631609 218470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it's none of those in that list < 1420631617 394239 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :what two numbers could I multiply to get 0xFFFFFFFF? is it a square? < 1420631629 584141 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod 2^32 < 1420631673 967778 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could multiply 0xffff and 0x10001 < 1420631690 534882 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok! < 1420631701 324431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's -1 (mod 2^32), not sure if that's a square on the spot < 1420631771 351946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: you can choose one of the numbers to be anything not divisible by 2 < 1420631809 224608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those have inverses (mod 2^32) < 1420631809 901951 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay but they both need to be <= 25 bits < 1420631830 195597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well oren's suggestion sounds good then < 1420631892 849696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pretty obviously the smallest < 1420631900 304923 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now i have + and - working! < 1420632012 108847 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whe happens when we run out of bits for flags to open? there are already about 24 of them and every year someone invents a new one. < 1420632064 301277 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that 26 < 1420632098 968321 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :always have one bit spare that lets you increase the length of the flag section < 1420632341 712315 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I count only 18. < 1420632442 256080 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: count the ones Linux supports in latest versions; plus the ones POSIX defines recently: O_SEARCH and O_EXECUTE and O_DSYNC and O_RSYNC; plus the two locking flags OpenBSD and other BSDs define < 1420632468 313613 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1420632478 614885 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :long flags; < 1420632565 526704 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a bit that tells open to look for additional bits in the mode. < 1420632704 740657 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it my entire idea doesn't work because of [ skipping if starts with zero < 1420632712 30619 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: hmm, maybe, but that would be a bit ugly < 1420632715 696688 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't compile brainfuck without parsing it first :( < 1420632738 75369 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me count. O_WRONLY, O_RDWR, O_SEARCH, O_EXECUTE (4 so far), O_APPEND, O_CREAT, O_EXCL, O_TRUNC (8 so far), O_NONBLOCK, O_CLOEXEC, O_ASYNC, O_DIRECTORY (12 so far), < 1420632751 663742 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you're emitting jumps as numeric steps < 1420632798 659680 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck withouth the rule that [ jumps across when 0 < 1420632806 512000 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got no "if" so is it still turing complete? < 1420632821 808542 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_SHLOCK, O_EXLOCK, O_NOFOLLOW, O_DIRECTORY (16 so far), O_NOCTTY, O_LARGEFILE, O_PATH, O_TMPFILE (20 so far), O_DIRECT, O_SYNC, O_DSYNC, O_RSYNC (24 so far), < 1420632842 845317 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_NOATIME, O_TTY_INIT (26 total). < 1420632918 816468 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: we talked about that a bit ago. I believe I can prove it turing-complete, though it has restrictions on its io < 1420632928 78752 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see! < 1420632935 658086 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't write the proof down properly so I could be wrong. < 1420632989 560715 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: HEGEMONIOUS CHICKEN < 1420633034 321368 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :additional bits in the mode? hmm, that could work. the mode has like 11 bits free. < 1420633050 350770 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, more than that < 1420633078 157933 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the permission bits take 12 bits, the file type bits (not used in open, but someone could pass them) take 4, < 1420633090 699481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leaves 16 bits < 1420633093 129180 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could work < 1420633230 232575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : god damn it my entire idea doesn't work because of [ skipping if starts with zero <-- a common problem for first-time brainfuck implementers < 1420633282 876809 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since its type is mode_t, in principle it can have as many bits as you like... < 1420633283 788654 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely do-while-not-zero-brainfuck is TC. < 1420633318 27871 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got array index out of bounds trying to run hello world in that variant :( < 1420633330 156293 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1420633345 539939 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :[<] I guess thats why < 1420633349 573439 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i dont know < 1420633352 500192 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was hoping it would just work < 1420633359 847475 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that doing in a hello world program? < 1420633376 252063 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont really know, i think its part of a trick to construct a number in a short way < 1420633386 136763 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably one of these fugly constants-in-brainfuck snippets) < 1420633392 505234 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1420633611 515646 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have a no-if friendly hello world? < 1420633695 737402 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://copy.sh/brainfuck/text.html generates friendly code. < 1420633734 992767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! bf_txtgen Hello, world! < 1420633744 781394 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :122 ++++++++++++++[>>+++++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [384] < 1420633765 448834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does our bf_txtgen < 1420633775 249219 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[--------->++<]>+. this is for S < 1420633775 991459 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1420633780 125069 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :its doing - < 1420633780 512387 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks. I was too lazy to look that up. < 1420633798 717033 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the nice link, < 1420633804 364989 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just I have not got negative numbers in mine < 1420633813 252088 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're 32 bit < 1420633824 498131 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: the bf_txtgen thing should work fine for you < 1420633838 993407 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok! < 1420633844 693658 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! bf_txtgen S < 1420633849 281711 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 +++++++[>++++++++++++>>><<<<-]>-. [18] < 1420633866 244181 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though it looks a bit silly!) < 1420633874 846030 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i just have to implemnt ] < 1420633879 615690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not immensely efficient for single letters, i should think < 1420633881 379486 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha i should optimize >< and things < 1420633889 113507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it doesn't do that < 1420634062 871768 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :>< should be multiplication < 1420634072 540803 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some language' < 1420634195 523568 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well... < 1420634214 473383 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on < 1420634215 699550 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/vzfs 4.0G 3.1G 934M 78% / < 1420634240 312381 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! bf_txtgen Hello from UM! < 1420634247 205089 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :118 ++++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>.>>>+++++.<..+++.<----.>>+.<+++.---.--.<.<+++++++++++++.--------.>+. [278] < 1420634266 878760 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok my compilers done < 1420634272 562690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: shocking < 1420634300 388470 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :before it goes down I guess I can sacrifice some available space. < 1420634415 172443 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently esolangs.org is pretty fast < 1420634436 429314 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 GB, that's pretty darn small these days... < 1420634450 907941 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1420634454 889655 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can compile brainfuck without if to http://esolangs.org/wiki/UM-32 < 1420634463 315392 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty bad hosting provider < 1420634472 205328 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which now got consumed by hosteurope < 1420634475 70034 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :im really glad I wrote this in ocaml, because the idea was to self host < 1420634477 886138 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my old contract is still running < 1420634485 797951 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was almost finished it before I realized the if thing... < 1420634494 144515 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty much stuck with it... < 1420634511 161208 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and honestly I don't really need more than 4GB. < 1420634525 30844 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i dont think i will < 1420634535 786807 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I need to be able to run haskell programs on it < 1420634540 428537 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and irssi < 1420634550 16927 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much why I decided to rent a vServer < 1420634554 758920 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wanted a swiss hosting provider < 1420634568 622404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: mind you, parsing brainfuck is about the simplest parsing you can do < 1420634590 795992 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _are_ much cheaper hosters with cgi support < 1420634591 41408 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even a regular language! < 1420634599 420906 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't install software on them < 1420634607 124137 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just stuck with whatever stuff they have pre-installed < 1420634611 318700 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: all you need to add is an unconditional jump before the loop to the end of the loop. < 1420634613 969285 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really practical < 1420634627 973137 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e,the problem is i dont know where the end of the loop is yet < 1420634638 18299 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to emit code as I read in the program < 1420634650 615284 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :so supporting if will require a second pass < 1420634657 488058 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. yes, that generally fails < 1420634661 853858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: nevertheless, there are regular languages that are harder to parse than brainfuck. < 1420634673 731250 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, woah, really? < 1420634686 548964 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wouldn't host the burlesque online shell I could go with a hosting provider that charges 1.10 CHF a month < 1420634748 837441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: regular languages can encode a finite state machine, while brainfuck needs no state for parsing other than "am i inside a loop or not" < 1420634762 490654 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont you need a stack? < 1420634766 228224 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, you generally need a stack < 1420634769 646156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1420634774 63599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is < 1420634780 137666 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody could start writing a burlesque interpreter in PHP :D < 1420634795 316677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack is still simpler than the mess of an arbitrary state graph < 1420634799 205858 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :string matching abracadabra without backtracking is arguably harder than parsing brainfuck. < 1420634800 667483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceptually < 1420634827 83431 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a regular language: strings containing "abracadabra") < 1420634867 177721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1420634867 818330 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1420634892 507435 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :.*abracadabra.* < 1420634896 7114 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1420634906 313289 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1420634924 760078 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :try finding the corresponding DFA < 1420634971 470572 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could find the DFA, I wrote a program that does it < 1420634979 636648 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just parse "parallel"? < 1420634986 793843 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. be in two states at the same time < 1420634995 862529 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: bet the program is more difficult than a simple brainfuck interpreter < 1420635002 533614 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah its really complex < 1420635004 865528 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: no, that's an NFA < 1420635044 712095 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've done that. I wrote my own 'locate' program because the existing one was too slow... it works by generating DFAs.) < 1420635052 880769 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ (yikes) < 1420635129 819256 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's probably pretty not-so-performant < 1420635165 638829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think abracadabra is _that_ hard mind you < 1420635222 720623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think parallel is needed < 1420635250 582553 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's probably not-deterministic < 1420635253 316855 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you needed to parse ababababababx < 1420635260 668205 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be hard if you are inside a strema like < 1420635262 780385 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, if you try to match abra OR abracadabra < 1420635264 76010 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :abababababababababababababab < 1420635269 789658 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :because any time an x comes you need to be ready for it < 1420635279 619732 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "thread" who finishes first will determine as what it parses < 1420635281 215961 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ababcababcdababcababcdababc < 1420635300 71559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: yeah i think that's harder in a sense < 1420635323 112503 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1420635338 528161 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this part I forgot: The locate started out just doing KMP... (KMP builds a DFA) < 1420635347 249941 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need serious thread handling to terminate other threads once a thread has parsed something < 1420635363 374201 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it rebuilds the DFA every time? < 1420635367 418582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think for both that and abracadabra you just need to know the longest initial substring you've parsed up to now < 1420635382 682321 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to terminate every thread that overlaps with what the succeeding thread parsed < 1420635395 369449 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/UM-32 I compile brainfuck without if to this < 1420635486 202938 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah it's not as hard as it could be; essentially you'll have to know whether the previous character was an a or not. but it's confusing to think about. < 1420635634 226459 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420635640 405809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the number of states is exactly the number of characters in "abracadabra" < 1420635656 999325 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus one? < 1420635677 543549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i guess a final state < 1420635681 603121 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(generally plus one: one state for each position, starting before the first letter, and ending past the last one) < 1420635695 770504 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(similar ideas work for translating regexps to NFAs) < 1420635731 355282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well i'd argue that if you're looking for _all_ (non-overlapping) abracadabra substrings, the initial position is equivalent to the final one < 1420635756 863892 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that... < 1420635872 678471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now try parsing "infinitive" instead < 1420635894 861333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1420635921 314793 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :locate can probably use a suffix tree < 1420635923 362485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i think that's still the same < 1420635950 994692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are searching for one word, it doesn't really get harder than "how much of the word have i seen so far" < 1420635986 184891 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. see KMP < 1420636000 552148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1420636068 460185 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I never bothered. 5x faster than the existing locate was good enough, and I went for regex search instead. < 1420636095 89809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's exactly what the first wikipedia paragraph says < 1420636098 656694 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementing regex search on suffix trees sounds fun < 1420636127 889125 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hard :P < 1420636134 569578 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that kind of fun < 1420636139 759210 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does gnu locate do? < 1420636161 517777 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :generate a list of files from its database; check each. < 1420636176 421827 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for substring or regex match) < 1420636185 377714 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awful < 1420636246 917502 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit sad; the database has the list of files as deltas (remove k characters; add some more chracters), and that lends itself for an incremental search (only the newly added chracters need to be checked.) < 1420636281 300311 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a serialised trie? < 1420636293 445708 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of, yes < 1420636306 341261 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delightfully awful < 1420636666 413969 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's "lends itself to". < 1420636737 548199 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I read < 1420637592 664097 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420637910 94565 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@87.228.105.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420637910 409536 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@87.228.105.48 QUIT :Changing host < 1420637910 453091 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1420638835 535793 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1420638957 922571 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1420639165 729425 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats up < 1420640035 187492 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm revisiting my idea for a programming language based on RTS games < 1420640061 877099 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have various workers and buildings < 1420640309 650435 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, but make sure that it's competitively balanced. < 1420640332 26338 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :ants < 1420640363 10562 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.81.118 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1420640380 126032 :S1!~S1@p4FF92B88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1420640412 389844 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Langton < 1420640540 475443 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: not a problem, all units and all buildings are at first identical < 1420640560 465613 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1420640571 738559 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: what? if they're all identical, why would I ever play with the night elves? < 1420640584 484517 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they differ in their research? < 1420640598 363064 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they differ as you tell them to differ < 1420640636 157516 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then I tell my orcs gather more gold than yours < 1420640647 334793 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you there! be an armoury. you there! be a bridge! you there, be gone!" < 1420640660 710030 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly that sort of thing < 1420640694 671817 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you define the interactions manually so there is more latitude < 1420640804 278078 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the key is, all "programming" is done by mousing, there is no text in the whole language < 1420640818 359228 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :squeak < 1420640901 236466 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one resource, but unlike normal RTS you have to carry it to the place you want to use it < 1420640909 731157 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? wy would I hvae to use the mouse? < 1420640935 627819 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a touch screen or a joytick i suppose < 1420640959 926043 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't I just use my keyboard? < 1420640973 355565 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only fun if you can instruct your ... entitities ... do carry around the resource for you < 1420640984 116009 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. < 1420641010 269897 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start with one entity who carries 1000 resource < 1420641034 363434 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1420641431 488013 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can build buildings, which produce more resuorce at a rate < 1420641463 453742 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can tell workers to take resource from one building and place it in another < 1420641488 741657 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course buildings can create workers < 1420641495 351570 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1420642382 216146 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the data storage would be buildings that produce resource at rate zero < 1420642515 169651 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :workers' action loops can include conditions, waiting, etc < 1420642598 953607 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i/o would be represented by a building that you place N resource into to output character N < 1420642859 472027 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-erjqiujplxohzzwn JOIN :#esoteric < 1420642893 53792 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O happens when you destroy enemy units or lose yours hth < 1420643017 316254 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a worker carrying no resource dies < 1420643031 505835 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you kill a worker by taking all his resource < 1420643065 664876 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly a building exists so long as it contains some nonzero amount of resource < 1420643093 354818 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual cooperative distributed system protocols are so boring. You could support adversarial distributed systems. < 1420643095 150317 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: workers would have to be created with a certain amount of resource then < 1420643113 75854 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah that is why they sot resource < 1420643119 997438 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sot/cost < 1420643405 309249 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrokers of course take time to move, take resource out of a building, etc, proportional to the amount of reosurce transferred or distance < 1420643442 462039 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420643509 123169 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to make a program faster i recommend using less resource and moving buildings closer < 1420643608 173147 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't even begun implementing any of this btw < 1420643708 173292 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.192.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1420643800 908556 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1420644944 149640 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could implement it highly highly distributed < 1420644949 573190 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :over thousandas of computers < 1420644996 178881 :S1!~S1@p4FF92B88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de NICK :Z1 < 1420645011 115589 :Z1!~S1@p4FF92B88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de NICK :S1 < 1420645034 996075 :S1!~S1@p4FF92B88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de NICK :Z11 < 1420645420 123888 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk JOIN :#esoteric < 1420645439 422938 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric : quick u guise, how do I find graph isomorphism in less than n! < 1420645479 739455 :Z11!~S1@p4FF92B88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de NICK :S1 < 1420645565 775383 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As of 2008 the best algorithm (Eugene Luks, 1983) has run time 2O(√(n log n)) for graphs with n vertices." < 1420645618 314419 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1420645625 711175 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, I thought it was NP hard < 1420645640 157979 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that for my question < 1420645655 744814 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just NP, not NP hard < 1420645662 818143 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not proven, and probably isn't < 1420645667 221009 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem < 1420645678 597867 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(√(n log n)) ?? < 1420645695 863390 :S1!~S1@p4FF92B88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PART :#esoteric < 1420645702 37070 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1420645706 418597 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^O(√(n log n) < 1420645714 721515 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2 to the power was outside the O < 1420645715 945762 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1420645717 702567 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks less ridiculous < 1420645742 636217 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was a HTML superscript.) < 1420645753 233704 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all rediculous < 1420645753 438782 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't slept in way too long < 1420645761 923197 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep < 1420645780 213733 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still probably not NP-hard, otherwise it would just be 2^O(n) < 1420645986 848806 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://calmerthanyouare.org/2015/01/07/optimizing-brainfuck.html < 1420646005 109644 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh how do you do bitmasks and stuff in brainfuck < 1420646014 89437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: something can be NP-hard with 2^O(...any polynomial...) < 1420646016 462595 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for writing an assembler < 1420646051 595673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: awkwardly? < 1420646066 865052 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any example with 2^sqrt n? < 1420646084 887358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory there is. just use padding. < 1420646100 917931 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad that article is more about optimising the interpreter rather than returning optimised BF code < 1420646109 210671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really an expert on the examples. < 1420646110 272902 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of wnat to write a self hosting brainfuck compiler < 1420646121 152543 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its a lot of hard work... < 1420646132 374961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: that padding was for you < 1420646176 328175 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, the cstheory site has an example < 1420646177 930410 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry for your loss < 1420646186 554358 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(o(n), not sqrt n specifically) < 1420646193 667132 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys don't have to calc this y'know < 1420646211 939115 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh idj < 1420646214 869724 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk* < 1420646300 279927 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, This is really good! < 1420647878 252131 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@195.97.13.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420648753 89536 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, it's something like 2^O(n/log log n) < 1420648757 577109 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't count imo < 1420648917 197990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: link to cstheory? < 1420648943 869172 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/a/3623 < 1420648958 489686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1420649157 518048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the first answer about max clique count < 1420649378 816200 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, is that a kernel for k-clique < 1420649385 619479 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1420649410 628013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1420649456 42033 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably enable javascript so I can read the latex < 1420649582 228908 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it counts edges < 1420649620 865475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1420649624 61538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1420649636 6726 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1420650847 255339 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that went OK < 1420651043 254481 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@195.97.13.242 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420651065 258129 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@195.97.13.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420651148 387509 :jix_!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1420652012 242822 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1420652103 215061 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-04-1096704252.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1420653209 236499 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1420653256 231887 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@195.97.13.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1420653510 471160 :oren!~oren@user3-208-191.wireless.utoronto.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1420653673 423227 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nnpyzqgptexuxpqr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1420653821 706476 :oren!~oren@user3-208-191.wireless.utoronto.ca QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1420654246 443941 :^v!~^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420654394 673574 :fractal!~scounder@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420654777 413200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1420655411 591136 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwrsyduzoyinsdlk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1420655849 273053 :scounder!~scounder@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1420655891 218540 :MoALTz!~no@user-109-243-165-112.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1420656621 412649 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1420656730 227455 :arjanb!8259a9cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.89.169.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420656790 361685 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1420657203 255686 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1420657420 155502 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.252.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420657623 537036 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-asrillsyrrgdezjw JOIN :#esoteric < 1420658383 88211 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1420658747 137701 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1420659049 850320 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin_ < 1420659141 399059 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1420659268 391006 :Lymia!~fujoshi@172.56.7.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420659273 531609 :Lymia!~fujoshi@172.56.7.133 QUIT :Changing host < 1420659273 581841 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1420659438 757973 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1420659641 99425 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1420659743 316494 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin_ < 1420659781 152525 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1420659842 952388 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1420659888 757770 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. I don't even understand this one: http://www.codewars.com/kata/reviews/5418c2901d3bf380da00025c/groups/5423adab48306ff68700045f < 1420660843 475382 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1420661027 149360 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@188.73.252.174 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420661050 225465 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420661113 679056 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheyhey! Heresy has pretty Scribble docs online now: http://pkg-build.racket-lang.org/doc/heresy/index.html < 1420661135 175746 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The codewars thing doesn’t seem to be actually accessible. < 1420661157 99636 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I guess the links don't work unless you're logged in or something. < 1420661188 208982 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Haskell solution for checking CCNs: < 1420661189 714984 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :validate :: Integer -> Bool < 1420661191 224821 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :validate = (== 0) . (`mod` 10) . sum . zipWith ($) (cycle [id, sum . digits . (*2)]) . reverse . digits < 1420661192 776224 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : where digits = map (read . return) . show < 1420661764 169144 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the zipWith ($) (cycle ...) bit that completely mystifies me. I have no idea what that even does. < 1420661788 738767 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can’t find “CCN”. < 1420661812 517567 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :credit card numbers. It's the Luhn algorithm. < 1420661829 873087 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that part’s applying (sum . digits. (*2)) to every second element of the list. < 1420661846 468578 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the goal, yes, but I don't quite understand how it does it. < 1420661904 154755 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle [1,2] < 1420661905 648278 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2... < 1420661982 577553 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It creates an infinite list, every second element of which is that function, and every other element is id. < 1420662033 640990 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since ($) is application, zipWith ($) is elementwise application, so the function is applied to every second element of the list, and id to every other element. < 1420662509 497402 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's pretty awesome < 1420662543 265612 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1420662557 160187 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@c-73-31-240-150.hsd1.wv.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420662573 787296 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@c-73-31-240-150.hsd1.wv.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1420662573 830570 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1420662952 570039 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: OK, I get it now, I think. Almost. < 1420663147 365362 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not quite sure about the return < 1420663153 11277 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a Magic: the Puzzling I have made, but I don't know if it is correct so see if you can check http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.1 < 1420663154 466 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need that? < 1420663346 534297 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Drawing is a step, not a phase. < 1420663357 713140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should say "draw". < 1420663376 715202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You are correct I made a mistake < 1420663391 616955 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed that mistake now. < 1420663404 923802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about The Dark. < 1420663437 327029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can easily look up a list of all cards it contains in Gatherer or whatever. < 1420663467 780440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But that's 119 cards. It seems like a lot to look through for a puzzle. < 1420663467 919209 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1420663472 276850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's an easier way. < 1420663495 961114 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try to sort them in various ways < 1420663518 355766 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By type, by mana cost, by color, etc) < 1420663539 731963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And by power/toughness) < 1420663553 401905 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1420663579 644970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celestial Prism is p. bad < 1420663635 177984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like a large number of cards would do it. < 1420663635 897075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A puzzle in Rosewater's "Magic: the Puzzling" book has a similar stipulation (although you get only one card in your library), which does not even tell you what set the card is in (except in the hints)! < 1420663684 176598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, you don't even need any cards, do you? < 1420663706 869170 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you do it without an extra card? It isn't supposed to be possible, so if it is then it is a mistake hopefully you can tell me how to fix it? < 1420663749 68018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I missed something. < 1420663855 766876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't you just attack with Leviathan and Bloodrush Pyrewild Shaman for 13 damage? < 1420663891 181459 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: [ < 1420663939 15921 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Dark is one of those few old expansion sets < 1420663956 765276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How can you earn enough mana? < 1420663998 523508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Birds of Paradise and any land? Or any land and Celestial Flare? < 1420664043 861556 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires. there are five of them. I don't really know anything about that. < 1420664051 109559 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that/them/ < 1420664072 719250 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celestial Flare? It doesn't have that card. < 1420664080 809411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celestial Prism, sorry. < 1420664087 603256 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requires two mana to activate. < 1420664101 141297 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, and you get three mana from tapping a land. < 1420664104 510291 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you have to sacrifice two islands to use Leviathan. < 1420664133 941406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1420664149 58963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see the last line of Leviathan. < 1420664158 65630 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you just needed to sacrifice islands to untap it. < 1420664181 283065 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't matter, does it? < 1420664201 803039 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have at least one card from each of the expansion sets starting from Homelands up to Scars, and no cards from those five early expansion sets. < 1420664219 592555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is already untapped. However, you need to sacrifice islands to attack, too. < 1420664250 328312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I see that now. < 1420664281 737617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe it is tricky, then. < 1420664361 74946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so in this puzzle, all of the permanents you list are untapped and not summoning sick, right? < 1420664437 425311 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1420664443 292209 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1420664460 452875 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you have two mana flares! that means you get UUU from the island < 1420664469 551554 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and three more mana from the land you drop < 1420664475 651844 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If any were, they would be marked as such. Also, summoning sickness is irrelevant as long as Concordant Crossroads is in play.) < 1420664483 910262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: So you have 7 mana, but then you can't attack with the leviathan. < 1420664491 857788 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's probably irrelevant < 1420664502 269321 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why not? you can sacrifice two tapped islands < 1420664514 173416 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Leviathan is not one of those crazy cards like Karoo that eat only untapped ones < 1420664515 499391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, sure, I was thinking specifically for bloodrushing. < 1420664533 506947 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the mana in your main phase. < 1420664563 538153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: You forgot to ask whether any cards were face-down. < 1420664579 185453 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, none are. < 1420664593 284898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they were, they would be marked as such. < 1420664635 726287 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any relevant effects opponent played that would have lasted during your turn would also be mentioned if there are any. < 1420664652 980955 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as cards controlled by players other than their owner. < 1420664670 849363 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so you could get either UUUUUUC, or UUGGGC and use the Hack to turn the Forest to an Island. < 1420664680 487262 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and attack with the Leviathan < 1420664753 198119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you turn the Forest to an Island? < 1420664767 573604 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you have a Magical Hack in your hand, cast that for U < 1420664774 724468 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :after you've tapped the Forest for GGG < 1420664782 89563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so it says you can do that; I didn't know that. < 1420664797 839152 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it changes the type line too < 1420664804 914794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it changes the type line too. < 1420664815 21151 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like Artificial Evolution < 1420664819 902223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "text" meant "text box". < 1420664821 642182 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevertheless I do not see how it would help here. < 1420664843 221456 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: huh, why not? I might want to spend the green mana on a card I draw < 1420664864 82948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, on a card you draw it might help. < 1420664891 438624 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Such as a green one) < 1420664936 141071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green mana would help with a green card. < 1420665134 13232 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do something like destroying all lands, you only have one turn, because the opponent can win next turn with his 15 mana. < 1420665244 660516 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so Wormwood Treefolk would save you, because you just cast it and attack with haste. < 1420665407 70318 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a card to opponent's side I forgot about. < 1420665421 450002 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1420665567 244048 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1420665790 535732 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Wormwood Treefolk is one of them yes, but what other cards do you think are possible to use in this way? < 1420665816 766579 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm looking, I just don't know The Dark so it takes a while < 1420665866 187500 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420665891 172610 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420666000 671411 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420666032 190544 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420666048 134604 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: any of Eater of the Dead, Murk Dwellers would save you by just attacking. Electric Eel saves you as well because you can pay for its ability with the Prism. Mind Bomb saves you by dealing 3 damage. < 1420666104 895817 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily, Giant Shark doesn't seem to be able to save you, because it doesn't get along with the Leviathan well (genre differences). < 1420666767 952080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I can see that. < 1420666777 479149 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Angry Mob, Diabolic Machine saves you by attacking. < 1420666822 199999 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cleansing comes close to saving you, but it lets the opponent keep two of his lands and I have the feeling he can still pull off some combo with just one drawn card and two lands. < 1420666901 650127 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember also the card opponent draws during his next turn may be from any set! < 1420666974 237130 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, he certainly can: keep two islands, draw into Ideas Unbound, he draws a Simian Spirit Guide, a Lightning Axe, and one irrelevant card, plays the Axe and kills you < 1420667022 415699 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two lands and one card are definitely enough, there are probably crazier combos than that because he could theoretically draw two Black Lotuses with Ideas Unbound < 1420667062 399758 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe not _two_ Black Lotuses, but at least one < 1420667111 761893 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Cleansing doesn't work in theory < 1420667333 446278 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can defeat you even with just one card. Note that it only says the number of cards in your library is a maximum; you might have only one card. Therefore, he can defeat you with Ancestral Recall. < 1420667366 655603 :MoALTz!~no@user-109-243-165-112.play-internet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1420667377 729580 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can't say that. if there's no minimum count in my library, I might lose right now because I can't draw. < 1420667422 536810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I fixed that. < 1420667485 621620 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Apprentice Wizard saves you: it has haste because of the Crossroads, attack with the Leviathan, activate the Wizard's ability with the mana from Birds of Paradise, filter two of the mana through the Prism, and activate the bloodrush < 1420667500 136709 :MoALTz!~no@user-109-243-165-112.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1420667533 164494 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, Elves of Deep Shadow saves you because together with the Bird it gives you enough mana to bloodrush < 1420667556 677690 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaea's Touch saves you because it lets you put both lands in play < 1420667570 935027 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also because it gives you extra mana < 1420667654 32657 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sisters of the Flame doesn't seem to save you, sadly, because you can't get three red mana and still have two islands < 1420667683 549079 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, Fellwar Stones saves you too, using bloodrush (duh) < 1420667819 259489 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could play the Magical Hack on the Leviathan, but that doesn't help you much (unless you use Gaea's Touch in which case you win without that anyway) < 1420669047 546748 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420669253 282070 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420669729 726812 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Brainwash help? < 1420669833 999012 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys all owe me one < 1420669849 548676 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone annoying is in another channel trying to design a language < 1420669849 837302 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420669851 530583 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't see how it would help. < 1420669854 150167 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nearly referred him here < 1420669869 510937 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420669878 624494 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: whew < 1420669899 486927 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it allows you to exploit rule 508.1h (someone told me you aren't required to stop using mana abilities once you have enough mana) < 1420669946 343466 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh... I dunno then < 1420670040 306675 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420670061 430502 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420670063 340936 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: thanks < 1420670132 273552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1420670185 792111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, that went OK <-- congratulationas < 1420670212 211867 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I went into the exam expecting to not be able to answer a single question. < 1420670221 221604 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put at least something down for every question < 1420670239 926991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-a < 1420670342 149832 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm happy with it < 1420670353 143418 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm not going to do *great* < 1420670366 280276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exam < 1420670374 777748 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, Vision and Graphics < 1420670387 577350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow. I don't even understand this one: http://www.codewars.com/kata/reviews/5418c2901d3bf380da00025c/groups/5423adab48306ff68700045f <-- login required < 1420670396 811108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :LRDR < 1420670402 689975 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, for me, Make Sure You Go To Lectures Otherwise You Will Not Know What Is Going On < 1420670403 672141 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he posted it later < 1420670406 211261 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry about that. I reposted the code in the channel shortly after. < 1420670406 487807 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420670406 692839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1420670431 412569 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420670453 487621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, vision and graphics sounds like a difficult subject < 1420670475 935229 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can explain the return there for me if you like < 1420670534 401381 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a poorly structured module, all agree. It was quite broad for a 10 (out of 120 for the year) credit module < 1420670667 687549 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't feel bad for not having thought of that solution, but I was a bit sad I didn't think of the mutually recursive one I saw elsewhere. < 1420670741 381581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: reminds me of my (only obligatory non-science course in university) philosophy exam. i think i went to a single lecture. also the subject had 3 parts, one of which was personal choice of sub-subject. i met to the exam completely unprepared on that third part, looked at one of the alternatives instead which was "explain the structure of the universe" and wrote up a line from quarks to expansion. not knowing whether that was even what ... < 1420670747 794209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... the question meant in that context. it went well. < 1420670772 199693 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehehehe :) < 1420670781 166383 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I feel like that whenever someone tries to talk to me in Finnish. < 1420670785 830397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Only one obligatory non-science course in university? < 1420670801 644029 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.81.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420670803 899372 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except imagine if you'd had a grade school education in physics too... < 1420670820 387293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yep. it's not "broad education" like in america, you specialize from first year. < 1420670841 83462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah, right. < 1420670858 207372 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420670881 410542 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420670929 329804 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thanks for the link to sslh. I found sshttpd ages ago though, which does the same for ssh and https only (enough for my needs= < 1420670932 788311 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/)/ < 1420670968 17256 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420670990 75917 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420671014 787288 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm I might have tried sslh since it was packaged for debian apparently. But I guess it didn't work? < 1420671108 216725 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah I think I couldn't get the transparent proxying to work, so that the source IP is correct for the server (I have it working with sshttpd though) < 1420671193 785453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: read requires a String, which is a list of Chars, so read . return means use the return that comes from the list monad. for that, return x = [x]. < 1420671223 42974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it basically means, turn a single digit Char into an Integer. < 1420671265 950814 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1420671306 216572 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't thought of the string requirement < 1420671350 13084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: or at least it _was_ that way back when i graduated. these days they've pan-europeanized things into bachelor and master degrees, i dunno what else changes that means. < 1420671364 656377 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1420672051 306407 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1420672075 652108 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@bittit.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1420672152 25489 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1420672178 176232 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1420672178 756002 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 072300Z 28014KT 10SM DRSN FEW020 SCT040 BKN060 M22/M27 A3017 RMK SC1SC2SC2 SLP220 < 1420672188 380815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1420672189 34315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 072250Z 14008KT 100V190 CAVOK 05/M04 Q0994 RMK WIND 670FT 17015G28KT < 1420672189 292830 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot damn it's cold outside. < 1420672189 428839 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: there's even an emacs interface to s48 1.1) < 1420672210 691336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i've told you, you need to change nick to freezy hth < 1420672222 661054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you weren't actually present < 1420672230 238625 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 NICK :frozen-boily < 1420672236 918001 :frozen-boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I wasn't. < 1420672810 370581 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1420672846 918593 :frozen-boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 NICK :thawed-boily < 1420672849 534916 :thawed-boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 NICK :boily < 1420672886 362769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1420672889 340967 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1420672905 412213 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1420673174 991276 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1420673536 669285 :arjanb!8259a9cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.89.169.203 QUIT :Quit: zzz < 1420673989 603664 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.81.118 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1420674405 450673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now made a list of thirteen cards to solve my puzzle. Someone else gave me this list, but they included Giant Shark and omitted Elves of Deep Shadow. They did include Brainwash though. < 1420674518 568609 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1420674530 538739 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get my earlier message? unrelated to cards < 1420674761 353945 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What earlier message? I don't see one < 1420674870 252037 :Alkahest!~alkahestr@71-219-8-25.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1420674927 250982 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was just sayin i wrote a gopher server in mirage/ocaml < 1420674933 897360 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if its interesting to you but anyway