00:01:22 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:25:52 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:29:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:52:58 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 00:54:59 -!- jbkcc has joined. 01:06:20 -!- GeekCraft has changed nick to GeekDude. 01:27:26 @where help 01:27:26 Got the code? Got the info? Then we've got the help for you! 01:27:32 (how helpful!) 01:29:37 * int-e has decided that MPTC + fundep is probably not enough to exploit the Typeable hole. The problem is that while fundeps express injectivity, the compiler still refuses to deduce b ~ b' from (Foo a b, Foo a b') with class Foo a b | a -> b. 01:31:41 int-e: Ah, I've run into that before. 01:32:42 And I guess Leibniz equality certainly isn't enough for this. 01:34:48 I wonder whether GHC should do the optimization where it doesn't check the tag for a GADT where only a single summand is possible. 01:35:04 oerjan: your exploit code becomes more readable if one abbreviates the proxies: type A = Proxy (Proxy :: * -> *); type B = Proxy (Proxy :: (* -> *) -> *) 01:35:21 Yes, I've been doing that. 01:35:39 Well, I called them PT and P'T before, but I also switched to PX and PY for the non-DataKinds version. 01:36:22 and rather than 'munge' I added {-# NOINLINE ecast #-} 01:36:56 Yes, that was discussed above. 01:37:12 oerjan was trying to avoid pragmas for some reason. 01:37:31 Do you think it's possible without kind signatures? 01:37:33 oh but why... 01:38:00 Not that it matters if only TypeFamilies lets you do it. 01:43:03 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 01:46:39 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:51:24 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 01:59:16 -!- gde33 has joined. 02:03:24 -!- Qfwfq has joined. 02:09:14 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 02:09:56 oh but why... <-- i was just trying to avoid any extra things that might be easily disabled. 02:10:31 and pragmas seem like something you might sometimes want to disable for safety 02:10:58 I've finally managed to implement BCT in MNNBFSL, I think. 02:11:07 congrats! 02:11:22 Thank you. 02:28:52 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: bbl). 02:29:50 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:30:16 -!- ^v^v has joined. 02:47:34 :t coerce 02:47:35 (Contravariant f, Functor f) => f a -> f b 02:47:47 oh it's not that one 02:47:57 :t GHC.Exts.coerce 02:47:58 GHC.Types.Coercible a b => a -> b 02:48:27 > GHC.Exts.coerce 'a' :: Identity Char 02:48:28 Not in scope: ‘GHC.Exts.coerce’ 02:51:56 -!- jbkcc has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:52:15 -!- jbkcc has joined. 03:05:36 -!- jbkcc has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:09:08 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:10:40 -!- erdic has joined. 03:17:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 03:33:55 It is amazing how many songs it is possible to sing to the tune of House of the Rising Sun <-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_metre 03:34:14 poignant name 03:35:13 Funptr 03:36:01 ...that word doesn't mean what i thought it meant. :( 03:36:32 which word 03:36:41 poignant 03:36:50 what did you think it meant twh 03:36:53 What does it mean? 03:37:03 amazing grace has to be the most vanilla melody _ever_, it's common metre _and_ pentatonal 03:37:12 shachaf: appropriate 03:37:17 Lilax: emotional 03:37:40 Amazing 03:37:45 [| ] 03:38:07 oh wait it _does_ mean that 03:38:26 the google extracts were misleading 03:38:41 ? 03:38:52 poignant means appropriate? 03:39:06 well, relevant 03:39:13 3rd meaning on wiktionary 03:39:24 close enough to fit how i used it, anyway 03:39:41 hm 03:39:51 so its emotionally Appropriate? 03:40:18 Lilax: i'm not sure those two meanings fit together like that 03:40:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:40:49 Its better than emotionally inappropriate. 04:07:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:08:18 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:11:26 -!- vanila has joined. 04:13:06 hello 04:13:27 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:41:05 oh new golf 04:46:22 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 05:03:25 I want to optimize .XM file by making it automatically decide how to put patterns 05:04:07 is there a quick overview of xm format? 05:04:16 so i can think about compressing them 05:04:37 You can find a document on my gopher server, as well as in other places 05:04:53 can patterns contain patters 05:04:56 No 05:05:04 can patterns overlap? 05:05:14 -!- mitchs has quit (Quit: mitchs). 05:05:20 No 05:05:48 A pattern is a list of rows (note events), and the song consists of the list of patterns to play; it is possible to repeat a pattern 05:08:09 I intend first it can unroll all loops, dumping it into memory without patterns and just rows, and figuring out the global loop point, and then performing optimization to compress the tables. 05:11:41 maybe it could be possible to look for lots of repititions of a small length, then increase its size and see how many repitions drop off 05:11:54 that way you can make a trade-off, choosing a good length of pattern to match 05:11:56 just an idea 05:14:05 The number of patterns, number of rows in each pattern, and number of items in the pattern order table, are all limited to 256. 05:23:44 -!- mitchs has joined. 05:26:42 I can know how to unroll all loops and that stuff, but then the rest I don't know much about it 05:32:48 -!- ^v has joined. 05:47:32 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 05:52:52 > [e^x] 05:52:56 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 05:53:00 muahahha 05:53:23 I have no idea what I'm doing 05:53:25 > [e^x] 05:53:29 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 05:53:43 oh 05:54:09 wrong ones I think 05:54:12 e and x are of the Expr type, not ordinary numbers 05:54:22 ye 05:54:34 and i think ^ treats x as if it were infinite 05:54:44 ? 05:54:45 why 05:54:53 its supposed to square it 05:55:07 no it squares e 05:55:13 hmm 05:55:17 but x is divided by 2 05:55:23 yes 05:55:40 Well, I guess 05:55:43 and no matter how many times you divide it by 2, it never compares equal to 0 05:55:57 so the recursion never stops 05:56:09 > iterate (`div` 2) x 05:56:10 [x,x `div` 2,x `div` 2 `div` 2,x `div` 2 `div` 2 `div` 2,x `div` 2 `div` 2 `... 05:56:18 I see 05:56:21 > map (==0) $ iterate (`div` 2) x 05:56:23 [False,False,False,False,False,False,False,False,False,False,False,False,Fal... 05:57:23 the Expr values are mainly for showing expressions in symbolic form, they support little else 05:57:40 [wiki] [[MNNBFSL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41696&oldid=41521 * AndoDaan * (+1665) BCT interpreter in MNNBFSL 05:57:48 > iterate (2 `div`) x 05:57:49 [x,2 `div` x,2 `div` (2 `div` x),2 `div` (2 `div` (2 `div` x)),2 `div` (2 `d... 05:58:03 4b+e^2)\frac{dx}{dy}(6*7)+8=0 05:58:16 that's latex 05:58:20 is what I'm trying to fix 05:58:38 simplify* 05:58:45 except i think something is missing there 05:59:30 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 05:59:40 probably I was day dreaming a bit in class 06:00:15 i mean, you're missing something at the beginning at least 06:00:43 > iterate (3 `div`) e 06:00:44 [e,3 `div` e,3 `div` (3 `div` e),3 `div` (3 `div` (3 `div` e)),3 `div` (3 `d... 06:00:50 I c 06:01:02 yes probably let me get my notes 06:04:47 back ok so its a differntial equation 06:05:09 y(2x4+y)\frac{dy}{dx}=(1−4xy2)x2 and the last one was an older one from memory I think 06:06:44 http://quicklatex.com/cache3/ql_35ea3396669a170a74f119670e137b23_l3.png 06:07:26 i have a hunch you're missing superscripts 06:07:30 oh well I see what's wrong God dammit, teachers 06:07:38 /o/ 06:07:55 probably I think 06:08:28 because putting numbers after variables is very unusual 06:08:40 unless they're sub- or superscripted 06:08:56 Ill ask my teacher tmrow 06:09:03 tommorow* 06:09:17 I have weekend school / tutoring 06:09:41 i find it weird that it has \frac but is missing the ^s for superscript 06:10:29 where should the ^s be placed? 06:10:30 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 06:10:40 between the variables and the following numbers 06:10:45 *digits 06:10:56 Oh 06:11:18 i assume there are no multi-digit numbers, otherwise you would need {} brackets too 06:11:37 Correct 06:12:47 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:13:05 * oerjan has forgotten most of the diff eq stuff 06:13:28 Whoo 06:13:42 Anyways thanks oerjan for some help 06:13:48 ill give credit 06:13:55 you're welcome 06:14:03 +1 points 06:14:44 zzz... 06:15:00 -!- Lilax has changed nick to Lilax|sleep. 06:17:03 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:18:54 -!- Froox has joined. 06:22:51 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:27:13 Now I make up "Healing Deal" card: You gain 12 life. Remove all counters from all players. Target opponent draws 4 cards, and then chooses 4 cards from your graveyard and shuffles them into your library. If you do not have that many cards in your graveyard, all of them are shuffled into your library. That opponent may untap a permanent of his choice; if he doesn't, he may gain 2 life. 06:28:01 What counters can a player have other than poison? 06:28:34 I don't know. 06:29:04 You should say "his or her" the way MtG cards do. 06:30:16 I want to abbreviate it. 06:30:38 You should abbreviate with e.g. "their" rather than his. 06:31:01 Take a stand and go with "it" 06:31:55 don't take a s/h/it 06:43:15 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:43:38 -!- ^v^v has joined. 06:50:30 I also made up a card "Dimir Ciphermage" which can have +1/+1 for each card encoded on it. 06:58:18 glguy: oerjan: can we not do that in response to sincere requests? 06:59:59 You're the boss 07:03:11 -!- glguy has left ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"). 07:22:44 %clone%clone% 07:22:50 I cannot sleep 07:42:57 oh man 07:43:21 I have to shorten the server msg I get for calling for server/port info 07:43:30 -!- Lilax|sleep has changed nick to Lilax. 07:43:58 it like shows how many errors and stuff I have plus server load and how many bytes pass through 08:01:32 is it bad if I force add nicks that are past the nick limit 08:46:47 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:59:06 I have no idea what to do with that toy VPS (except marvel at how laggy it is)... http://104.167.104.168/ 08:59:22 seems fast to me 08:59:25 int-e, can you run xen microkernels like mirage? 08:59:44 I get ~112ms ping 08:59:48 so not that great. 08:59:54 elliott: well I just logged in and it took seconds! to get a shell. 09:00:08 int-e: maybe just try and use 100% CPU/network/disk 24/7 to help sabotage their business model 09:00:16 (this has not happened on the lambdabot one) 09:00:18 int-e: hmm, are you sure that wasn't because of reverse DNS lookups or whatever 09:00:25 ssh does that without "UseDNS no" 09:00:31 elliott: hmm, let me check 09:03:29 elliott: I guess that was part of it. 09:06:01 but mostly I think a lot of stuff was swapped out 09:11:09 can xen swap VM memory like that? 09:11:13 that's scary 09:11:23 (is it even xen?) 09:11:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:18:40 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:20:02 -!- hjulle has joined. 09:22:47 vanila: I don't think we've reached the point where one can nest hypervisors yet, have we? 09:23:18 I hvae no idea 09:23:40 nested virtualisation is a thing, but mirage creates machines to run on xen, not hypervisors 09:23:44 i was asking because i have agood one you could run 09:23:56 if cloudatcost lets you upload, like, your own kernel thing, you should maybe be able to do it 09:24:04 a lot of xen providers don't allow that though 09:28:21 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:29:10 uploading kernels works fine. with good timing I can evel select from the grub boot menu if I give that enough time... but it's already running under a hypervisor (a vmware one judging by the boot BIOS splash) so a Xen kernel shouldn't work. (Oh there are people crazy enough to do such things. "HVX employs a technology called Binary Translation ..." err, right. that would work.) 09:29:39 s/with good timing I can eve// (didn't delete as much as I wanted) 09:30:41 int-e: to be clear: by "xen kernel" here, I mean that mirage kernels run as guests on top of a xen hypervisor (i.e., they are domUs) 09:31:08 mirage is not itself a hypervisor, just a toolkit to write OSes that only run under the Xen hypervisor (paravirtualised IO only, etc.) 09:31:15 but yeah, vmware means no chance 09:32:27 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:34:43 int-e: if you'd ever like the VPS taken out of your hands I can handle the burden :p 09:34:56 -!- adu has joined. 09:37:56 elliott: right. 09:38:21 (and give up my canadian IP? no way!) 09:38:56 honestly, if it's good for nothing it might still be handy as a proxy. 09:39:05 you should run a tor relay on it 09:39:12 actually that's kind of a great use 09:39:20 $35/lifetime tor relay 09:39:29 the connection is probably fine for it, downtime doesn't matter too much 09:40:01 and with some luck I'll get to test how those indemnification clauses work out overseas. 09:40:46 heh 09:40:56 that would be for tor exit nodes 09:41:08 for now... 09:41:18 tor _relays_ won't even get you angry emails, I don't think -- you're never going to be contacting anything but other tor nodes 09:41:18 ah whatever. it's an idea all right 09:41:27 and you never see any unencrypted content 09:48:45 8. Other Prohibited Activities "Maintaining a relay service open to the general public" 09:49:05 I cannot even run an IRC server! 09:49:29 don't worry, the general public mostly can't use IRC 09:50:35 oh that means you cant run a web server either? 09:50:47 depends what counts as a "relay" 09:50:56 "" 09:50:56 Some people host a Tor exit node on this provider. They don't seem to properly monitor their nodes. 09:51:03 but it's probably meant to ban proxies, not servers in general 09:52:38 It's malleable, as usual with ToS agreements. 09:54:34 "" 09:54:34 I use them for Tor Relays. Their network abuse management is non-existent. 09:54:41 I HATE FIREFOX. 09:54:55 ok. 09:55:04 I'm selecting a line by double-clicking, it decides to prepend a newline. 09:55:15 THIS MAKES NO SENSE. 09:55:39 sorry, calm again. 09:55:53 I'm confused /it tooks seconds to get a shell/ seconds isn't that long?! 09:56:14 also I was way back in the conversation as I can see now 09:56:25 I hate when things don't load 09:57:18 Lilax: i'm pretty sure that was the point 09:57:31 oh wait 09:57:55 your sentence is ambiguous, you should try commas 09:58:09 it takes <1s to start an ssh shell on my server here 09:58:10 I should try that 09:58:20 oerjan: the /.../ was a quote 09:58:25 is that long for you? 09:58:45 1s to open a shell is fine. 5s wouldn't be. I open new terminals and log into my server frequently 09:58:50 elliott: yes but i interpreted the rest as "seconds, isn't that long" 09:58:54 there's no reason for it to be slow, anyway 09:59:04 Well elliott 5s isn't that slow 09:59:07 because i got confused by lack of a comma after the quote 09:59:11 yes it is 09:59:13 ssh is fas 09:59:14 *fast 09:59:17 Pssht 09:59:26 I guess I'm never used to fast stuff 09:59:30 Lilax: yes it is long. this is just negotiation an ssh connection and displaying a prompt. 09:59:32 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 09:59:46 I have a lot of weight on my server 10:00:10 Just today I took twenty minutes to log into a machine. Turns out it was thrashing 10:00:17 I don't. It's all those other people running their servers on the same host ;-) 10:00:20 so whenever I use a school computer I'm like WHAT?! this is so fast /o/ _|__|_ 10:01:02 what OS does your server run on 10:01:04 Lilax: Oh and don't get me wrong, that wasn't a complaint. 10:01:15 Windows ;-; 10:01:23 THAT WOULD DO IT 10:01:25 Lilax: I didn't expect any better from that provider. :) 10:01:32 8.1 server 10:01:35 (Also, I learned that some of ubuntu's login scripts are written in python) 10:01:41 Wait 10:02:01 Okay. I'm running 7.1. ;-) 10:02:05 I thought you were reffering to my schools server, elliott 10:02:23 (Except I guess you mean Windows and I mean Debian) 10:02:37 I meant your server that has a lot of weight on it 10:03:10 also I guess you mean Windows Server 2012 R2, but yeah 10:03:50 Yeah the weight comes from it being connected to a couple chat servers 10:04:33 No but elliott I run VirtualBox on my server and Void Linux on my personal 10:04:43 um... 10:04:47 what OS is virtualbox running on? 10:04:49 and what OS is running inside it? 10:04:49 elliott: did you ever identify Windows 95 as MS-DOS 7.0? 10:05:21 (you may be too young, I forgot) 10:05:27 Oh well Then you should have stated that 10:05:48 windows 10:05:57 Ye so I wasn't mistaken maybe? 10:06:00 ??? 10:06:05 I'm confused 10:06:23 int-e: I think I went windows 3.11 -> windows 98 -> windows Me or something. 10:06:32 (windows 3.11 in 1998-ish) 10:06:35 Lilax: me too... 10:06:44 * Lilax sits in corner 10:06:50 virtualbox lets you run an OS on top of another OS... what are the two OSes in question? 10:07:04 ubuntu and windows 10:07:09 int-e: I know of the windows-only MS DOS versions though 10:07:12 elliott: ok, Windows 98 was MS-DOS 8.0 for its DOS part. 10:07:15 oh, okay. 10:07:19 (re lilax) 10:07:30 Wat 10:07:31 (but I skipped that one) 10:07:49 windows me was so great, I used it until like 2006 or something 10:07:56 by great I mean intolerably awful 10:08:10 My first computer was windows XP 10:08:31 something like msdos 5.5 msdos 6.0 win 3.0 win 3.11 win 95 win XP, win 7. 10:08:40 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 10:08:43 And that's what i had till i got angry as all hell and stopped using it 10:09:12 (and I've only used the latter 2 for playing games) 10:09:28 because I have no idea how people get any work done with windows 10:10:01 Well, you see int-e.. They don't. 10:11:41 int-e: if I'm correct those are some pretty old OS 10:13:07 OS's 10:14:42 windows 7 is "only" five and a half years old 10:14:57 actually, less. 10:15:35 I'm buying Windows with new computers, and this one is 4 years old now. 10:15:37 I was 10 yr 5 months when 7 came out? 10:15:52 pretty old for me 10:16:06 oh man, 16 year olds were born in 1999 these days? 10:16:09 that's terrifying 10:16:23 (Windows 8 had just came out, I think, and it was obviously crap) 10:16:26 Although my relative view of time is skewed 10:16:33 so 11 yrs old 10:16:33 you should have seen 1995, it was wild 10:16:45 elliott: relax, most of them were born in 1998 :P 10:16:47 I was born in 98 10:17:12 int-e: but by the end of the year... :( 10:17:22 really 2000 is when it starts scaring me 10:17:31 Its gonna be weird We are gonna be in the 20's again 10:17:35 elliott: tick. tock. tick. tock. 10:17:42 I'm old and grumpy already 10:17:54 elliott: welcome to our world :P 10:18:01 elliott: 65 more years of life? 10:18:08 depending on health 10:18:20 Although my relative view of time is skewed <-- hey so was einstein's! 10:18:24 to be honest I've probably become less old and grumpy over the past few years 10:18:29 lol 10:18:47 Relax guys 10:18:58 feels like a lot of teenagers get really crotchety and cynical for a while 10:19:08 I wonder why... 10:19:32 Insert sarcasm 10:19:39 -!- int-e has set topic: Young and cheery | The horror of fungot | but often spelld. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 10:19:59 ^echo still here? 10:19:59 still here? still here? 10:20:20 If you want I can optimize how long you might live? 10:20:28 Although that morbid 10:20:34 that's* 10:20:48 optimising how long I live doesn't sound morbid, though maybe you mean something different by that :p 10:20:50 Lilax: minimize, you mean? that's brutal. 10:21:15 how old are you int-e 10:21:20 too old 10:21:24 Health issues ? 10:21:28 down, not across 10:21:33 as old as the trees 10:21:36 int-e: ouch 10:21:44 ouch? 10:21:53 i got int-e's reference 10:21:59 I do not get it 10:22:12 that's probably for the best hth 10:22:30 it's a solution for the optimization problem you posed. 10:22:37 google can tell you all the rest. don't. 10:22:39 the average human life span is 1-85+ 10:22:57 and those rare cases of 100+ 10:23:02 Lilax: that's not how averages work hth 10:23:07 shhh 10:23:19 I'm always confused oerjan 10:23:30 always... 10:23:31 i've noticed 10:23:33 that's ok. 10:23:54 Mental health issues. 10:24:27 if it helps, you could put age years young 10:24:28 One of the big disappointments about growing up is that the confusion doesn't go away, and life doesn't become simple. 10:24:46 eg; I'm 98 years young 10:24:58 because old sounds to mean 10:25:38 why isn't there a sorcery that simply untaps all creatures? 10:25:58 Because magic b_jonas. 10:26:03 :3 10:27:55 I don't know. 10:28:18 such a card could work in white or blue 10:29:56 I was also wondering why there wasn't an enchantment with just "Creatures attack each turn if able." , similar to Curse of the Nightly Hunt. 10:30:40 What are you even talking about? 10:31:01 more importantly 10:31:20 zzo38: I still can't download the Khans set faq, is that an error on my side? 10:32:39 I was looking at the Fate Reforged release notes (that's apparently what they call a set faq now), and have seen that it talks about a card with a copy permanent effect but doesn't bother to mention how copying a face down card works. I was wondering if it's at least mentioned in the Khans faq, for Khans also has such a card. 10:32:50 Wat?! 10:33:01 Lilax: magic. 10:33:21 specifically, magic the gathering. 10:33:54 Oh my grandfather plays that 10:34:11 "" 10:34:33 Speaking of, I was going to go to a Magic prerelease today 10:34:38 there are grandfathers playing magic? isn't it for 13 years and older only? 10:34:43 But I'm not very good at it and I am nervous 10:34:45 b_jonas: at least there's an "Untap all creatures you control." (Mobilize) 10:34:48 Well, more anxious 10:35:30 I've been playing Magic for less than a week 10:35:30 int-e: sure, but I specifically want to untap my opponent's creatures 10:35:43 does nayone havea converter from lambda calculus to de bruijn in scheme 10:35:49 Wise people of the channel please advise 10:36:12 int-e: so I can Taunting Elf + Gaze of the Gorgon them 10:36:12 b_jonas: i'm pretty sure most grandfathers are older than 13 hth 10:36:15 b_jonas: there's also this fun one "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, untap all creatures." (Intruder alert) 10:36:27 Taneb: i've never been to a mtg prerelease but as i understand it it's among the gentler of official events, specifically intended to be welcoming to new players 10:36:34 explain what a ssl is 10:36:50 b_jonas: (that's only half the effect, the other half is that creatures don't untap during the untap step) 10:36:51 that sounds dumb 10:36:52 Taneb: in that case, enjoy it, and don't worry about your performance. a pre-release is supposed to be a friendly event. 10:37:02 Taneb: is it a sealed draft? 10:37:10 b_jonas: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/release-notes-2014-09-18 ? 10:37:11 b_jonas, I do not know what that is 10:37:20 int-e: yes, Intruder Alarm. that card is bah-roken. 10:37:35 b_jonas: It looks so innocent ;-) 10:37:36 Taneb: which continent is it on? 10:37:45 b_jonas, Europe??? 10:37:52 presumably it's on an island 10:38:19 Mobilize? wtf... oh, from Portal. No, there's one outsite portal too: To Arms! 10:38:24 so make sure to get lots of blue cards 10:38:25 b_jonas: I mean, how much damage could a piece of cardboard and some colorful ink do?! 10:39:03 int-e: yeah, back then it didn't even have hologram stickers on it like real money 10:39:13 As I remember it, if you copy a face-down card, you get a face-up 2/2 colorless creature with no creature types etc. 10:39:39 shachaf: yes, I know. but why isn't that mentioned in the set faq, for a card that has a non-optional copy permanent effect? 10:41:10 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 10:41:29 I don't know. 10:41:35 I've barely played with KTK. 10:41:51 I'm not sure how that interacts with manifest. 10:42:11 I guess I'll read the definition of manifest when it's released. 10:42:34 Oh, that's in the release notes you just mentioned. 10:43:23 Hmm, so do copy effects copy the fact that a permanent is manifested? 10:44:51 It looks like a permanent stops being manifested when it's turned face up, but a copy effect would never turn it face up. 10:45:12 So maybe if you copied a manifested permanent, and then turned the copy face down, it would be manifested. 10:45:33 Hmm, but maybe the copy effect stops anyway when you turn it face down? 10:46:00 300+ms is not what I expected from my servers preformance 10:47:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:47:51 OK, apparently turning a Clone face-down doesn't stop the copy effect. 10:48:11 But I would guess that "being manifested" isn't copied. 10:48:44 shachaf: the update bulletin is out as well 10:49:34 shachaf: and yes, they copy a 2/2 vanilla creature, but no, the copy will not be manifested or face down, it's only its characteristics that are changed to similar ones 10:50:00 I know it doesn't copy the face that it's face-down, but I wasn't sure about being manifested. 10:50:03 That was my guess. 10:50:09 Oh well. 10:50:13 shachaf: copying _to_ a face down permanent is different, but that doesn't come up this set becaue there are no cards like Cytoshape that can do that 10:50:42 Hmm, which situation are you imagining there? 10:53:44 shachaf: just simply using Flamerush Rider or Clever Impersonator and targetting a face down creature 10:54:29 I mean with Cytoshape. 10:55:10 Would it copy "manifested" or not? If not, what if a card was manifested and then you made it a copy of something else, would it keep manifested? 10:55:33 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:55:56 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:58:47 shachaf: no. use Cytoshape to make a face down morph card (say a Scornful Egoist) a copy of an elephant. then, I think (but I'm not sure) while the wizard is face down, it's still a 2/2 colorless creature, and when it's face up, it's a 3/3 elephant. 10:59:31 Oh, Friday's xkcd was great. 11:00:06 friday's GG was basically trolling 11:00:41 oerjan: let's see if they can stretch this through the whole next week, shall we? 11:01:01 no, they promised monday would be back to normal 11:01:01 b_jonas: Can you turn it face up for the morph cost when it's a face-down elephant? 11:01:04 oerjan: friday's what? 11:01:13 shachaf: hmm, good question. probably not 11:01:28 How to get into girl genius? 11:02:06 b_jonas: What if I manifest a sorcery card and then make it a copy of a Scornful Egotist? 11:02:13 Can I turn it face-up for {U}? 11:02:53 "A face-down permanent represented by an instant or sorcery card can't be turned face up." 11:02:56 I guess not. 11:03:04 Same question with s/sorcery/land/, then. 11:03:21 shachaf: maybe you can because it's not a sorcery if it's a copy of the wizard creature 11:03:29 vanila: hm? 11:03:35 oerjan: oh so they did, what happened to Gikka then? And are you sure they mean *next* Monday?) 11:03:44 But it's still "represented by a sorcery card", right? 11:03:54 shachaf: no idea 11:03:59 OK. 11:04:06 shachaf: you'll need someone who knows the rules more than me 11:04:52 this 11:05:04 oerjan: or perhaps they'll present the chapter title page and then continue their foolery on Wednesday ;) 11:05:09 is why I don't play with my grandfather 11:05:16 Did someone say sorcery? Oh a game 11:05:34 I'm actively seeking occultists to interview 11:05:34 oerjan: I mean, while they're still on a roll trolling. 11:05:53 shachaf: this is a good question, I might ask it on a forum 11:06:04 JesseH: you're in the wrong place :P 11:06:21 Tell me if you find out. 11:06:23 int-e: i guess they dropped gkika, she didn't really show her dress much in the original play, except when quilted... 11:06:30 JesseH: if you are seekinh occultists 11:06:35 go to 4Chan 11:06:39 I had various related questions. 11:06:42 jesseh: Here we're only interested in sorceries that go on a stack. That makes is computer sciencey :P 11:06:43 shachaf: especially as Cytoshape wears off at end of turn 11:06:51 int-e, I know! I'm in other channels on the weird networks. I'm wanting to create an occult inspired esolang. 11:06:52 but I'll have to read the setfaq first 11:07:01 I'm pretty sure "represented by a sorcery card" is unambiguous. 11:07:10 it might already answer this 11:07:11 An occult inspired esolang? 11:07:15 Easy 11:07:25 Might just do harry potter lang 11:07:28 Just use Demon tongue chars 11:07:35 If I manifest a creature card with a high cost, and then make it a copy of a creature with a low cost, can I turn it face-up for the low cost? 11:07:37 For everthing 11:08:07 shachaf: dunno, I'd just blink it instead if I wanted to cheat on costs 11:08:28 but yes 11:08:29 If I have a face-down Morph card, and I make it a copy of a card that I manifested, am I able to manifest it? 11:08:29 vanila: girl genius is an epic plot story so you really have to start at the beginning. 11:08:35 I guess you already answered that last one with a no. 11:08:37 Isn't there a card deck in that game that lets you get.infinite mana 11:08:54 avadra x is kedavra b00000001 11:09:02 expecto patronum x 11:09:05 > 1 11:09:06 pls no JesseH 11:09:06 1 11:09:26 ok thanks 11:09:29 I admit I don't really understand how copy permanent effects work 11:09:30 Just use uhm 11:09:32 nice spell JesseH 11:09:42 vanila, :P 11:09:42 ancient aztec 11:09:46 tek? 11:09:47 idk 11:10:02 help. what is going on 11:10:11 we are summoning Satan 11:10:20 ok. sweet. how can I help 11:10:21 and I'm not sure I like manifest because it makes you skip beneficial etb triggers or replaced abilities like that of Order of the Stars 11:10:26 I think b_jonas is lost in layers (I would be, too, if I were to consider them.) 11:10:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:10:47 int-e: yes, the copy rules are sort of ambiguously written and strange 11:10:49 I know how to solve this card game 11:10:56 use a lighter 11:11:04 and walk out of room 11:11:11 Lilax: that will not affect the tokens (if made of steel) 11:11:13 int-e: but sadly it's getting harder and harder to ignore them because wotc keeps printing lots of copy permanent effects at low rarities these last five years 11:11:41 int-e: no, you're definitely not allowed to use coins to repreesnt tokens or counters or anything in game 11:11:42 Ugh every where I go its just this game 11:11:53 Lilax: sorry 11:11:56 b_jonas: metal cubes 11:11:59 Its ok 11:12:18 b_jonas: and what? really? 11:13:29 int-e: per tournament rules, because they're worried the coins can cause confusion with authorities thinking you're playing unauthorized gambling games for money. 11:13:33 I'm making fork bombs now 11:13:40 int-e: so you're not allowed to use money. 11:13:50 not allowed? 11:13:53 b_jonas: right. makes no sense. makes sense. I dunno. 11:13:58 int-e: yes, it does make sense 11:14:14 it's a bit unfortunate, but still 11:14:16 b_jonas: not really :P 11:14:50 that said, I do use coins in casual play, as well as dice and small pieces of cardboard 11:14:55 b_jonas: but it's the context, where not playing for money may look like you actually may be playing for money. 11:14:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:15:13 atleast its active in here... 11:15:26 b_jonas: (I guess in a tournament you also want to prevent things like "resign and I'll gift you all my precious tokens") 11:15:37 http://i.imgur.com/JaZLhYX.jpg 11:16:05 oh my god 11:16:44 oh my god to what? 11:17:16 the world-embracing, world-devouring cat 11:17:20 int-e: yes, bribing is definitely not allowed 11:17:26 yes 11:17:40 Poor India. 11:18:08 * Lilax chuckles 11:18:23 Evil king chuckle fish 11:18:25 I, for one, welcome etc. 11:18:58 Do any of you have pets? 11:19:36 do spiders weaving their nets in various corners count? 11:20:13 AndoDaan: are you saying india is fucked 11:20:31 by tiny kitty peen. :( 11:20:32 oerjan: he didn't have to, hth 11:20:53 but i did hth 11:21:00 oerjan: well tdnh 11:21:05 we have different definitions of tiny 11:21:06 AndoDaan: dont ruin the kitty picture 11:21:08 Neuter your pets, ppl! I can't stress that enough. 11:21:14 it could be 11:21:20 a female? 11:21:33 I can't believe we're talking about this. 11:21:42 no one can. 11:21:48 THey still have outie like genitals when excited though. 11:22:02 I just wanted to show a cute kitty picture! 11:22:07 Why 11:22:14 do you know this AndoDaan 11:22:19 jesus christ 11:22:34 ... 11:22:37 how does he know this 11:22:42 Doesn't everybody? 11:22:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:22:55 I mean... we've all been curious. 11:23:02 its not common knowledge 11:23:02 okay, i'm done. 11:23:05 Lilax: Sorry. There's a maximum size for cute cats, and this picture exceeds that by several orders of magnitude. 11:23:24 -!- elliott has set topic: ANYTHING BUT CAT DICKS | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 11:23:41 AndoDaan: I do not not know what to say to that comment 11:23:43 elliott: rub it in, will you... 11:23:49 cat dicks have barbs 11:23:54 -!- int-e has left. 11:23:58 lol 11:24:03 -!- chaosagent_ has joined. 11:24:11 elliott: there is no escape. wait where did int-e go. 11:24:11 Uhm. oerjan, or anyone, is there anykind of... type of program that would send a BCT or CT or Tag system interpreter through it's pacess? 11:24:32 -!- OneRatShort has joined. 11:24:56 I'm still curious about AndoDaans knowledge but ill leave this alone 11:24:57 hm alas i've been mainly converting _from_ BCT 11:25:12 binary calculus 11:25:16 makes no sense 11:25:18 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:25:29 It's for the best, Lilax. 11:25:30 discrete calculus is a (cute) thing 11:25:58 AndoDaan: you are a tad bit creepy /no offense/ 11:26:19 i want to know esoteric secrets 11:26:44 sadly the only secrets on offer today appear to be about magic the gathering or feline genitalia 11:26:44 From BCT to...? I can't imagine trying to actually programming in it. 11:26:49 None taken. 11:26:51 `relcome OneRatShort 11:26:58 ​OneRatShort: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 11:27:06 MY EYES 11:27:38 How many paces do you need a BCT interpreter sent through 11:27:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:27:59 AndoDaan: well BCT is known to be turing complete, so converting _from_ it is a good way to show other languages TC. you don't have to actually know how to program BCT for it... 11:28:08 I've only tested it with the Collatz example from the wiki. 11:28:59 the thing is, BCT doesn't really have output, so the incentive for actually programming in it is low. 11:29:04 As in, throw a dart, write down the number you got in binary and chances are that it's a nonterminating BCT program 11:29:05 even for esolangers 11:29:09 Why can't we be normal 11:31:08 Hmm. Would all useful BCT programs follow the 1=11 0=10 ;=0 conversion from a CT program? 11:31:34 Lilax: normal is just a specific kind of broken that people for some reason pretend to prefer hth 11:31:41 no easy way to give all creatures vigilance either, without side effects. (Synchronous Sliver plus Shields of Velis Vel works in theory.) 11:31:53 Normal as in 11:32:07 please don't give me facts about cats 11:32:49 ok, so is there an instant or something that just stops creatures of my opponent from attacking this turn _without_ attacking? 11:33:03 a Fog usually does the trick, but not if I already have the Taunting Elf in play 11:33:24 I want to set the topic >_> 11:33:32 but this is a lot of pressure 11:33:45 decisions 11:34:09 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Magic Channel | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 11:34:18 hhh 11:34:21 now accurate and shouldn't confuse _anyone_ hth 11:34:30 now its even more pressure 11:34:44 sheesh critics 11:34:51 um, if it bothers you, we can go to another channel 11:34:57 a language that's just +'s and /'s 11:35:05 no its not bothering me! 11:35:09 is there like an instant with "Detain all creatures."? 11:35:25 Lilax: try just \ and / and you've got a nice subset of /// 11:35:44 Wow I am the definition of a modest liar 11:35:59 nope there isn't 11:36:36 = x + = s / = / + / = n 11:36:54 it looks very pristine 11:37:11 -!- int-e has joined. 11:37:14 I should make useless stuff again, lol 11:37:27 I'm the very model of the modern EDH general 11:37:45 AndoDaan: well the only way to get a BCT program that doesn't come from a CT program is to have an alignment mismatch at the end, and it won't really differ for more than one cycle. 11:39:01 And all CT programs come from converting a tag system alphabet (a=100 b=010 c=001...)? 11:39:17 CT is crazy 11:39:27 I feel like /'s and +'s are better oerjan plus its easier I guess if I were to make sub classes and it looks pretty 11:39:53 cyclic tag is so smiple 11:39:57 it seems like it shouldn't be TC! 11:39:58 like i swear the sub class would be - and \ 11:39:58 but it is.. 11:40:07 it feels in a differen class to turing machines 11:40:10 but its not... 11:40:14 omg 11:40:17 Lilax: pluses and slashes? so all the cards would give p/t bonuses to other cards? 11:40:22 turing machines.. 11:40:38 I remember my first encounter 11:40:42 with the beast 11:41:43 Can X be negative? 11:41:54 -X 11:42:10 U+2212 11:42:13 shachaf: not if you choose it. 11:42:23 What about e.g. Nantuko Mentor? 11:42:26 apparently breaks my latex 11:42:48 shachaf: no idea 11:42:49 I guess +X/+X for a creature with negative power would subtract from power and toughness. 11:43:10 I was uhm not talking about magic b_jonas 11:43:13 but ok 11:43:25 It looks like it works the way you'd expect. 11:43:51 shachaf: I'm not sure which way I expect it 11:44:12 OK, it works the way I'd expect. 11:44:23 `unicode U+2212 11:44:24 ​− 11:44:32 It would make a -1/1 into a -2/0 11:44:45 shachaf: there's Viridian Joiner though it doesn't mention X 11:44:49 My grandma has a very old Guide book on basic 11:44:54 there's a rule like "If a calculation that would determine the result of an effect yields a negative number, zero is used instead..." 11:45:00 `unidecode − 11:45:01 ​[U+2212 MINUS SIGN] 11:45:08 What about draw X cards where X is negative, etc.? 11:45:13 int-e: yes, but there's some partial exception for powers and toughnesses 11:45:31 Power can be negative, but a creature with negative power just deals no damage in combat. 11:45:37 wasn't there a card that put X tokens into play where X is the power of something 11:45:47 yes there is: Carrion 11:45:56 http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3A%22where+x+is+that+creature%27s+power%22 11:46:09 I remmeber that because it's funny in un-sets with half power stuff 11:46:19 What does it mean to put -1 +1/+1 counters on something? 11:46:20 there's also the newer Feed the Pack 11:46:26 b_jonas: Ok, I guess it makes sense for power. But for drawing X cards, or placing X tokens, that rule should take effect. 11:46:42 int-e: certainly, the question is whether it takes effect for that power-modifying thingy or not 11:46:49 Nantuko Mentor 11:46:50 b_jonas: Can toughness ever be negative? 11:46:55 shachaf: yes 11:47:17 shachaf: not for long, because the creature dies quickly, but it can 11:47:25 Is it weird if my grandma knows more about.haskell than me 11:47:26 shachaf: it's easier if you make the creature indestructible 11:47:36 I mean, for long enough for Feed the Pack to be relevant? 11:47:46 shachaf: use indestructible 11:47:55 Doesn't help, does it? 11:48:02 oh wait, that doesn't help 11:48:04 anyone have any experience in opening their 3rd eye ? 11:48:05 um, dunno then 11:48:44 shachaf: try Fungal Sprouting then 11:48:51 or Mercy Killing 11:48:59 or Miming Slime 11:49:08 just 11:49:20 list the options off in one text 11:49:23 hmm, what would Miming Slime do? 11:49:47 Sure, but I was specifically wondering about negative toughness. 11:50:29 E.g. maybe you can have something like Wall of Roots, where you put a counter on it to pay for a spell and also sacrifice it as part of the same spell. 11:50:32 I swear I'm scared that my grandma has more experience in esoteric languages than I do 11:50:36 she's 78 11:50:48 A spell like Momentous Fall. 11:50:49 when did this whole esoteric thing start 11:50:59 does this fall? 11:50:59 197 11:51:09 have a lot of momentum 11:51:10 3? 11:51:11 Wouldn't work with Wall of Roots, but maybe with something else. 11:52:08 Gnight o/ 11:52:25 Lilax: the first major esoteric language is usually considered INTERCAL from the 70s, i think. 11:52:34 welp 11:52:47 but the real flood didn't start until about '93 11:53:05 which is when both brainfuck and befunge were made 11:53:23 "Being indestructible stops only effects that would destroy the permanent, including destruction due to lethal damage and destruction that doesn't allow regeneration. An indestructible permanent can be exiled, returned to a player's hand, put into a graveyard for having 0 or less toughness, or sacrificed." 11:53:32 int-e: yes, I know, I was stupid 11:53:36 -!- OneRatShort has left. 11:54:03 idk how old she was back then but uh 11:54:04 nice use of past tense. 11:54:06 (scnr) 11:54:10 is there a distinction between saying "grown-up's toy" and "grown-ups' toy" depending on whether it's used solo? 11:54:19 I guess she knows how to do a lot of code 11:55:36 anyways 11:55:41 as I was saying 11:55:41 Lilax: haskell isn't usually considered esoteric, although it's from 1990 11:55:47 how old who sas? 11:55:50 Goodnight 11:56:04 his granma 11:56:11 ah 11:56:20 yeah, haskell is just "non-mainstream" 11:56:31 I said she knows more than me 11:56:58 But she knows More about esolangs than I thought 11:57:19 I should ask her what she knows about teh computers nexr time I see her 11:57:39 i think my father (who's probably older than your granma) knows how to program in principle, although i don't think he does it much 11:58:15 ye your father is probably older since you are 44 11:58:21 `? principle 11:58:22 principle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:58:26 never heard of it hth 11:58:30 hey someone remembers my age! 11:58:39 I remember all ages 11:59:00 no esolangs page either 11:59:09 Only for one reason 11:59:22 But anyways 11:59:25 imo you should swat me for belaboring the point 11:59:41 shachaf: likes to be hit? 11:59:56 i thought you were leaving 12:00:04 pssht 12:00:11 what 12:00:14 Its slowly turning off 12:00:29 but I can still type until.. 12:00:30 -!- int-e has set topic: Collective Magicing | Programming through the Ages | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 12:00:47 and ther 12:00:51 I don't remember ages, but I remember oerjan is a haskellite 12:01:30 > text $ map pred "Sfnfncfs!nf\"" 12:01:32 Remember me! 12:01:41 kk 12:02:11 ill probs remember all of you even after you die 12:02:17 Cuz I never forget 12:02:20 thanks kid 12:02:24 yw 12:02:25 thanks elephant 12:02:30 u wot 12:02:46 gnight 12:03:06 I feel loved. 12:03:10 Lilax is an elephant? 12:03:29 b_jonas: that's the only logical conclusion 12:04:31 oerjan: hmm, their average life span isn't so great it seems. 12:05:24 it's ok Lilax doesn't understand averages anyway 12:05:29 (see above) 12:06:02 oerjan: would that make it an average understanding of averages? 12:06:25 probably 12:08:16 is she a white or a green elephant? 12:08:29 is Lilax a she now 12:08:35 dunno 12:08:40 * oerjan cannot keep up 12:08:41 I don't follow genders either 12:08:47 it should be pink 12:08:53 well but you're hungarian 12:09:04 you don't have them 12:09:37 actually, can we stop discussing animals for a day or two? 12:09:50 int-e: but then we could only talk with em when we're drunk... 12:10:56 "journey of an ant" was a cute game. *lalala* . o O ( happy thoughts ) 12:12:06 ants are animals too hth 12:12:32 I knew that. 12:12:45 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:12:51 `? ants 12:12:52 ants? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:12:55 `learn ants are animals too hth 12:12:58 Learned 'ant': ants are animals too hth 12:13:13 `? ocd 12:13:14 ocd? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:13:24 ants are strange 12:13:26 `? cdo 12:13:27 cdo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:13:30 wat 12:13:36 `? cdop 12:13:37 cdop? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:13:55 `quote ocd 12:13:56 No output. 12:13:59 `? dyslexic 12:14:00 dyslexic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:14:01 `? dyslexia 12:14:02 dyslexia? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:14:07 `? mtg 12:14:07 mtg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:14:13 `? M:tG 12:14:14 M:tG? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:14:21 . o O ( things Oerjan Could Do ) 12:14:23 * int-e runs. 12:14:35 `? misspellings of croissant 12:14:36 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:14:46 oerjan: Corouscant 12:15:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:15:31 no wait, that's misspel;led 12:15:34 it' Coruscant 12:15:37 hmm, what would you call a corouscant-shaped omelette? 12:15:40 why would you want ants in your couscous 12:16:10 Ah, missspelled typos. 12:17:02 Will this become an antology of typos? 12:17:12 int-e: wat 12:17:21 lol 12:18:50 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:19:03 * oerjan is still waiting for the answer twh hth 12:19:06 oops 12:19:16 -!- Lymia has joined. 12:19:16 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 12:19:16 -!- Lymia has joined. 12:19:20 forgot that script bug 12:20:13 hesh bug 12:20:16 oerjan: you woke the beast within, turns out it's small, has six legs, and is crazy about sugar. 12:20:54 well if it weren't small it would be a giant 12:21:20 but despite its size it can rant all day. 12:22:10 an insectful observation. 12:22:45 (isn't that phantastic? with only three letters it's scantly possible to avoid that word even if you wanted to.) 12:23:50 brilliant 12:24:58 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:30:50 there's really a lot of those words... blatantly bantering ants defiantly enchant dormant elephants. 12:37:19 -!- S1 has joined. 12:44:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZZ). 13:03:15 int-e: beast within... is that like antman, the recurring super-villain in StickManStickMan, see http://stickman.qntm.org/comics.php?n=62 13:07:23 b_jonas: maybe, but I've never seen that comic before. 13:14:06 antman appears only once more after he's defeated I think, so I'm not sure if he counts as a recurring villain 13:15:17 he returns in http://stickman.qntm.org/comics.php?n=638 13:40:15 -!- boily has joined. 13:56:31 -!- ^v has joined. 14:20:03 -!- nys has joined. 14:22:41 wait... when did http://www.gocomics.com/heavenly-nostrils/ get its title changed? 14:25:21 -!- Lilax has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 14:32:51 -!- SopaXT has joined. 14:33:49 -!- SopaXT has changed nick to SopaXorzTaker. 14:44:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:59:50 -!- Guest84511 has quit (Changing host). 14:59:50 -!- Guest84511 has joined. 14:59:56 -!- Guest84511 has changed nick to Vorpal. 15:09:51 -!- not^v has joined. 15:13:55 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:14:27 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:14:42 -!- ^v has joined. 15:25:26 [wiki] [[MNNBFSL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41697&oldid=41696 * AndoDaan * (+27) Added to TC category. 15:27:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ACKNOWLEDGED CHICKEN). 15:29:31 [wiki] [[Talk:MNNBFSL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41698&oldid=41681 * AndoDaan * (-2123) Undo revision 41681 by [[Special:Contributions/AndoDaan|AndoDaan]] ([[User talk:AndoDaan|talk]]) I was a bit premature in adding the Wang B-machine outline. 15:49:59 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:51:10 -!- augur has joined. 15:55:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:01:47 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 16:01:47 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:24:04 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 16:41:04 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:55:18 -!- augur has joined. 16:56:16 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 16:56:28 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:58:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:13:20 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 17:16:10 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:23:57 -!- jameseb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:25:34 -!- jameseb has joined. 17:27:26 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 17:35:16 -!- ^v has joined. 17:45:12 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:51:03 -!- ^v has joined. 17:53:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:01:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:02:27 wow, people are actually competing for the 101 scrabble words thing 18:02:28 -!- supay has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:02:33 (anagol) 18:03:21 > 26^2/8 18:03:23 84.5 18:04:12 > 101 * 2 * log 28/ log 256 18:04:13 121.38571178195451 18:04:21 > 101 * 2 * log 26/ log 256 18:04:23 118.68610288306259 18:05:19 > 2*26*5/8 + 10 18:05:21 42.5 18:05:32 * int-e shrugs 18:07:30 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:07:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:07:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:07:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:07:43 -!- ^v has joined. 18:08:08 -!- supay has joined. 18:08:58 -!- S1 has joined. 18:10:45 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 18:12:08 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:13:29 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 18:19:57 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:21:59 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:25:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:36:45 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:37:59 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 18:49:56 -!- adu has joined. 18:53:00 -!- supay has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:04:07 -!- supay has joined. 19:07:49 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 19:09:25 I don't know what to do with myself now I'm done with MNNBFSL. 19:13:39 Make an implementation of Remote Virtual Table Protocol. Alternatively, make up a new kind of computer game. Even more alternatively, now you have to do LSFBNNM. 19:14:05 http://www.atomicshrimp.com/st/content/invention_dice_2/ 19:14:23 LSFBNNM... now that's an idea. 19:16:01 what's LF?? 19:17:12 AndoDaan, how did you write this BCT interpreter? 19:17:17 i dont see a lot of binary numbers in the source code 19:17:38 Language F*ck. 19:17:38 ang/ag/Language 19:18:02 It takes the BCT code and init string from the standard input. 19:18:19 in the form /BCTcode.initString// 19:19:19 In the end that was just easier to implent than comming up with a method to hard code the data each time. 19:21:44 I've updated my MNNBFSL javascript interpreter if you wanted to give the BCT interpreter a whirl. 19:22:03 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 19:22:13 that is really cool 19:22:19 it must have been hard to write... 19:23:24 I'm a bit embarrassed actually about how long it took me. But since it was my first time doing something like that, I learned a lot. 19:23:51 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:53 -!- ^v has joined. 19:24:06 i dont think many people could do this at all! 19:24:12 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:25:47 Ah, well some of the snippits I've gotten off other's their code. But I did come up with a search algorithm that can drag a value with it. 19:27:05 And that was key for the BCT interpreter I think. 19:31:05 So, what is holding your interest lately, vanila? 19:33:16 ive just been working on compilers, non esotierc 19:36:08 For business or pleasure? 19:38:43 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:38:46 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Changing host). 19:38:46 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:39:39 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:41:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:43:09 -!- ^v has joined. 19:47:04 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:48:32 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 19:49:11 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 19:51:06 Now I made up some more Magic: the Gathering cards 19:56:13 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:03:48 One thing I made up is "Target spell loses all subtypes." 20:10:08 That does weird things to enchantments. 20:12:22 -!- Lilax has joined. 20:12:55 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:13:54 :l 20:14:17 Discussing if I was an elephant after I left ._. 20:14:23 " Make sure that you use the correct screws. If you have a torque screwdriver, tighten all screws firmly to the torque shown in the table. Never use a screw that you removed. Use a new one. Make sure that all screws are tightened firmly" 20:14:31 Manual (I think for service people) for my machine 20:14:39 I learner that in woodshop 20:14:41 Blah, how critical is it to use new screws? 20:14:55 pretty critical 20:15:34 Eg: If you use an old screw the drill bit can fracture and now you have shrapnel flying around 20:15:58 oops you've lost your eyes 20:17:41 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:17:57 pikhq: Yes I know it does weird things to enchantments. Many auras will just fail to work, although some will continue to partially work anyways. 20:18:25 Spooky 20:19:39 It also makes arcane spells sad. :) 20:21:17 I have a friend.who goes by piks 20:21:26 Actually it doesn't looks to me that it would affect the ability to splice onto arcane. 20:21:50 Yes, but there's abilities that trigger on arcane spells resolving, no? 20:22:13 Certainly can't affect splicing though. 20:22:28 There's no point at which splicing could be done and that spell could have resolved on another spell. 20:24:37 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 20:24:40 pikshq 20:25:34 pikshaq? 20:25:42 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:26:04 'I thought I had some blue cheese in my fridge, but to my disappointment it was just normal cheese accelerating towards me' 20:26:31 I suppose it would allow arcane spells to damage Kitsune Riftwalker (but only for untargeted damage) 20:27:30 Lilax: Sounds dangerous. 20:27:44 blue shift pikhq 20:27:55 Yes, I know. 20:28:15 The velocity there would be absurd for blue shift to be noticable. 20:28:17 Ok, Just makin' sure 20:28:22 I presume this is why it's past tense. :) 20:28:35 how fast? 20:28:44 lets talk numbers 20:28:45 would you even have enough time to process the sensory input 20:28:54 I mean 20:29:00 Ballpark on the order of .2c 20:29:03 If you opened your fridge 20:29:13 elliott: No, neurons don't go that fast. 20:29:17 from the other side of the city 20:29:17 yeah 20:29:29 what kind of house do you live in, Lilax 20:29:31 what kind of arms do you have. 20:29:48 my arms fell into a blackhole 20:29:55 how does the cheese suddenly accelerate to .2c only as you open the door 20:29:58 there are so many questions here 20:30:06 lol 20:30:14 Perhaps you have a nuclear fridge. 20:30:25 Ok so in my freshman year 20:30:38 I had to solve for the speed of light 20:30:52 As it enters an event horizon 20:31:11 I failed that so did the entire class 20:32:16 "C = 1 foot/nanosecond" there, I answered it. :) 20:33:03 Well 20:33:21 if only I had pikhq in 9th grade 20:33:53 -!- rand_ has joined. 20:34:54 -!- adu has joined. 20:35:38 you never played pokemon as a kid? 20:35:56 u wot 20:36:01 yes i did 20:36:09 Learn how to play Pokemon card! 20:36:13 Pokemon Heart gold was my first one 20:36:17 Omg card games 20:36:20 the joke is that pikhq is pikachu 20:36:25 it's a bad joke. 20:36:37 Look people, I am not good at the card games 20:36:52 Its just to much pressure for my frail heart 20:38:45 "Pokemon heart gold was my first one" now I feel old. 20:40:19 Then I played yellow on a emulator 20:40:33 Then I got A gameboy colour 20:40:42 Oh man that was the shit 20:40:51 back in elementary. 20:44:31 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 20:48:32 ouch. https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671 20:48:55 -!- rand_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:49:42 lol 20:49:55 bash is such a good language 20:50:08 its amaze 20:50:49 be back later 20:52:28 I'm glad we use operating systems where a program you run accidentally doing rm -rf /* is enough to delete all your personal files that it would otherwise never need to even know about the existence of :( 20:52:57 that's a good point actually 20:53:13 there's two things you could improve here: the language (not using bash), and the OS itself 20:53:23 it's easy, just make /home unreadable to everyone :P 20:54:22 (Of course I don't) 20:54:43 (and it wouldn't have helped with the /media anyway) 20:54:54 to be fair, "for path in glob.glob(os.path.join(steam_root, '*')): os.remove(path)" or whatever is just as broken 20:55:00 if steam_root can be empty 20:55:18 you can argue with bash making it empty in the first place but it's not as slam-dunk a bash issue as a lot of shell script bugs are 20:55:21 It's just unfortunate that common OSes don't have any degree of application sandboxing. 20:55:27 STEAMROOT="$(cd "${0%/*}" && echo $PWD)" <-- this is also completely wrong if $0 is a symlink 20:55:49 (ideally Steam wouldn't be *able* to delete all that stuff) 20:56:07 I'm using DIR=$(dirname "$(readlink -f "$0")") which is probably not perfect either. But I'm not removing any files there :P 20:56:32 and... missing an outer pair of quotes? maybe. 20:56:43 No, the outer pair of quotes is unneeded. 20:56:59 When you're setting a variable, sh parses from the = to the end of the line as part of the variable. 20:57:14 (this is a bizarre special case in sh syntax) 20:57:42 But there's the FOO=bar cmd syntax. 20:57:50 I misstated somewhat. 20:58:01 but $() cannot be broken apart like that. 20:58:09 http://www.etalabs.net/sh_tricks.html 20:58:21 Yeah, always a good thing. 20:58:27 "The following is not safe: 20:58:27 var=$(dirname "$f") 20:58:28 Due to most commands writing a newline at the end of their output, Bourne-style command substitution was designed to strip training newlines from the output. But it doesn’t just strip one trailing newline; it strips them all. In the above command, if f contains any trailing newlines in the last directory component, they will be stripped, yielding a different directory name. While no one sane would put 20:58:34 Rich Felker is as general awesome. 20:58:35 newlines in directory names, such corruption of the results could lead to exploitable vulnerabilities in scripts." 20:58:38 surprise! unix! 20:59:00 s/as general/as always, generally/ 20:59:04 if f contains any trailing newlines ... well, yes 20:59:08 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:59:17 as I said I'm not deleting any files :) 20:59:20 also having files called -help --help 20:59:24 and then doing ls * or something 20:59:29 vanila: That's easy to deal with though. 20:59:34 ls -- * 20:59:47 also I think readlink isn't that portable 20:59:48 that doesn't stop it being a problem 20:59:50 Sadly most people are completely ignorant about that feature of getopt-style syntax. 20:59:55 the reason its a problem is because you can do these things by mistake 20:59:58 I don't have readlink -f, though I'm on OS X 21:00:17 (even though that has been in getopt *as long as there has been a getopt*) 21:00:23 When writing shell scripts I also usually type #!/bin/bash -- just in case someone decides to allow the operating system to setuid shell scripts and then they rename the file with - at first 21:01:17 But then, people suck. 21:01:22 elliott: interesting, I thought that program had a mac user. I've got to inquire. 21:02:02 * pikhq "loves" how so many common utils have shitty edge cases 21:02:03 int-e: what does your script do? 21:02:44 I was aware of -- syntax at least, I don't know why a lot of people don't know very well? 21:02:52 elliott: there's a config file right next to the wrapper script, and I want to find it even when the wrapper script is symlinked (usually from ~/bin) 21:03:58 elliott: so I have something like DIR=$(dirname "$(readlink -f "$0")"); "$DIR"/tool -conf "$DIR"/tool.conf 21:04:24 I have implemented -- syntax in some of my own programs too if they have a filename as a command-line argument, although some of my programs don't use command-line arguments at all and only act as a filter 21:04:56 It is too bad many new programs will not act as a filter. 21:05:15 I think the real solution is switching langauge to something that does't have these difficulties 21:05:22 e.g. scheme shell 21:07:21 But is scheme shell capable of fixing programs to act like a filter, or to allow "ls *" to work even though the files named with - at front? 21:07:36 the idea would be to pass flags in a different way than files 21:07:51 e.g. (ls (flags help) (file -foo bar)) 21:07:55 and it should work fine 21:08:10 i mean this is just an idea, it coudl be haskell or something else 21:08:15 Yes that would work, if the program is designed in that way. 21:08:16 basically not bash 21:08:26 or perl 21:09:13 With Haskell programs it could clearly work, by dynamically importing modules to do the stuff; other executable files can maybe also be imported as a IO () 21:09:50 Or better would be ([String] -> IO Int) or something like that; you can then add other commands for redirection too. 21:10:37 well it should be [Parameter] where data Parameter = Flag String | File String o r something like this 21:10:39 elliott: I guess I could write a perl script instead :P 21:10:41 to be able to distriguish them 21:10:45 However these kind of ways of doing this with Haskell program, would work best if the operating system is using Haskell too. Probably also if you are using Scheme, it would work best if the operating system is using Scheme. 21:10:54 elliott: but this is an academic tool, I'll wait for the complaints. 21:11:00 yeys I want to make an OS which isn't based on files 21:11:06 but i think its too hard to write a whole OS 21:11:21 what about STEPS :3 21:11:22 vanila: The thing is that if the operating system isn't Haskell it won't know that! If you are importing Haskell programs then the program can have whatever type you want it to have and don't have that problem. 21:11:33 yeah, something with a vision like STEPS! 21:11:38 int-e: not sure perl is the right step up from there 21:12:00 elliott: well there's no GNU perl or Sun perl... 21:12:02 let's just revive multics 21:12:14 yes zzo38 that's a good point, a lot of the OS tools force us to have these problems 21:12:21 but knowing that we can try to addres it 21:13:09 elliott: so for portably implementing readlink (which POSIX apparently doesn't have at all), that's an option. 21:13:15 int-e: yeah 21:13:25 posix doesn't have perl either though 21:13:30 (I hope) 21:13:34 I think you can do that construct portably though 21:13:38 you usually can 21:13:42 Of course one thing that can be done, if you are making this with Haskell, is to write modules that can be used as wrappers for non-Haskell programs which will figure out the correct command-line arguments and other stuff. 21:13:44 right. but perl is installed almost everywhere anyway 21:13:51 POSIX has awk, but no Perl. 21:14:02 POSIX does have C though. :D 21:14:46 C is fine, but not for scripting. 21:14:47 https://github.com/mkropat/sh-realpath 21:15:24 int-e: Yes, although there are many other programming languages that can be used for scripting, depending on what you need it for you can use it. 21:15:25 needs a readlink but not one with -f and you can emulate it with ls 21:15:33 but then maybe you run into escaping issues?? joy! 21:15:51 elliott: so that's avoiding readlink -f but still uses readlink. 21:16:05 (ah redundancy) 21:16:58 I happen to like AWK for text processing 21:17:10 ive used awk a couple times.. 21:17:18 i thought i should use perl instead 21:17:34 Although there are a few things missing (as well as a few GNU extensions which don't seem much useful to me) 21:18:31 -!- shikhin has changed nick to godofgods. 21:18:38 -!- godofgods has changed nick to shihin. 21:18:43 -!- shihin has changed nick to shikhin. 21:18:47 awk occupies a middle ground between sed and perl to me. I use it occasionally. 21:21:15 Well yes, Perl is basically awk++. 21:21:28 -!- nortti has changed nick to asochis. 21:21:54 int-e: I don't, because I use perl when I need that sort of thing 21:22:25 -!- asochis has changed nick to nortti. 21:25:09 And for data processing, there is SQLite. 21:25:49 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker_. 21:25:55 -!- lawspeaker_ has changed nick to nortti. 21:27:24 -!- aretecode has joined. 21:32:09 Meh. "PR" is overloaded. "Problem Report" "Public Relations" "Pull Request". 21:44:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:55:48 press release 21:58:57 -!- GeekDude has joined. 21:58:59 pickle relish 22:00:00 I didn't need to know this (acronymfinder): Per Rectum (method of medication) 22:00:57 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 22:09:49 How do you 22:09:59 Make time bans for irc 22:10:53 you just have to remember to unset them again 22:11:38 (or have a bot that does it automatically (freenode has a service bot, eir, for this... not sure how to get it on channels though)) 22:13:07 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:13:45 oh it does 22:14:22 I just have a :tban (user) (time) but sometimes it forks the time to x100 times that 22:14:31 so ye ill just go find that bot 22:15:41 (also eir makes *all* bans expire, it can be annoying.) 22:16:04 oh 22:16:08 well then 22:16:56 I can make it even more annoying (user) ban expire @1sec = reban 22:17:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:17:21 it bans then expires in 1second then detects unban and bans again 22:17:35 Although the msgs would spam 22:19:29 This is all for The modding system I'm making for reasons since ye 22:19:36 People abuse my bot a lot 22:19:47 we do? 22:20:08 No 22:20:15 Chatango does >_< 22:20:22 Like irc 22:20:32 but shit 22:21:00 please do not use the return key for punctuation. we can wait for whole sentences, we're patient like that. 22:21:36 Oh, I'm not used to that.. Sorry. 22:22:58 Everyone I'm around usually talks like that. 22:23:35 (It's not a strict rule either, more of a guideline. I've found that sticking to that allows me to communicate more coherently. (Yes, I could be even more incoherent. ;-) )) 22:25:02 ._. " 22:31:22 [wiki] [[User:AndoDaan]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41699&oldid=40888 * AndoDaan * (+23) 22:32:19 [wiki] [[User:AndoDaan]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41700&oldid=41699 * AndoDaan * (+1) 22:46:39 int-e: seems like the solution to the latest golf problem is pretty canonical :) 22:46:59 (he said, just before henkma swooped down with 42) 22:47:09 ^ not an actual event. yet. 22:49:29 sometimes it annoys me that . has an incompatible fixity with the default one for `ident`s. 22:50:01 it's associative, so it didn't _have_ to 22:51:39 even if the current one is slightly more intuitive for how lazy equational thinking expands it 23:13:10 I want to make up the programming language RULECARD and then make up the rules for Aberration Hater Card Game using that, but, perhaps at first I can do it just in normal text and then convert it later. And then rules for Magic: the Gathering should also be written using such programming language, so that you can know exactly how it is working and Wizards of the Coast should learn to use such programming language too. 23:14:55 Do you think this is a better idea than the other way? 23:15:28 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:19:22 -!- augur has joined. 23:19:46 This is how to win at Pokemon card: http://zzo38computer.org/img_16/pokemoncard1.png 23:21:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:24:04 -!- augur has joined. 23:25:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:30 -!- augur has joined. 23:34:02 zzo38, I think your RULECARD idea is probably good but makes the system a lot less flexible 23:37:28 But I must go to sleep now, goodnight 23:37:32 Well, the programming language would have to be defined in a flexible way 23:38:42 Is such a flexible language deserving of being called a programming language? 23:39:11 oerjan: yes that fixity of . did cross my mind 23:41:30 It does mean that whenever you add a new card, it will be necessary to recompile *everything*. 23:42:37 int-e: did you call your variable n? if so i predict byte-for-byte equality hth 23:42:51 oerjan: I did not. 23:42:54 darn 23:43:09 for some reason x won this time 23:43:34 However, you usually would not have to modify the rules; you would always have to recompile them (as well as recompile all existing cards) if you are adding or changing anything. If you are only deleting a card, you may be able to get away without recompiling everything right away. 23:49:25 oerjan: there's one other thing I could vary but I did choose the more plausible option 23:50:10 (there are two ways of shortening a:b:[] by one character) 23:54:16 -!- GeekDude has joined.