00:01:55 Well, it's not real. 00:02:01 Unless, of course, its preimage is an even function. 00:04:20 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:15:55 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 00:19:59 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:27:36 -!- adu has joined. 00:30:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:35:49 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:42:48 -!- adu has joined. 00:44:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:11:01 -!- boily has joined. 01:11:13 hellørjan. 01:11:17 -!- dorei has quit. 01:11:46 @metar CYUL 01:11:46 CYUL 140100Z 25007KT 15SM SKC M22/M30 A3012 RMK SLP204 01:11:47 *ach*oily 01:12:21 for once, the outside weather is immaterial. 01:12:22 the sickness disprovement worsened again? 01:12:25 @metar ENVA 01:12:26 ENVA 140050Z 13002KT 1000 R09/P2000N R27/P2000N SN VV003 M01/M01 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 17001KT 01:12:41 the outside weather is the kind where your eyelids try to freeze together. 01:12:48 (seriously. no joke.) 01:13:26 oerjan: are you still mainly oerjan, or has the flu made a coup and installed a new government in you body? 01:13:33 well the _flu_ isn't getting that much worse now, but my back is really longing for an outside walk. and then there had to pop up a canker sore just for completeness. 01:15:17 boily! 01:15:19 how goes? 01:15:32 quinthellopia! 01:15:34 cold! 01:15:37 oerjan: sounds bad 01:15:46 cold as in temperature or illness? 01:15:48 oerjan: yuck. 01:15:59 temperature. re the previous @metar. 01:16:34 > (-21) * 9/5 + 32 01:16:36 -5.799999999999997 01:17:08 quintopia: it's -21 °C (-6 °F) outside. much fun. 01:17:25 the last one sort of interfers with plans to gorge on comfort pizza and chocolate 01:17:45 (that's generally the right thing to do with a flu, right?) 01:18:05 feed a flu, starve an eating disorder? 01:18:09 wait that's not right 01:18:10 for me it's large doses of chicken noodle soup and OJ. 01:18:16 * oerjan fetches some chocolate anyway 01:18:28 thank goodness they invented kanka eh 01:18:41 i always buy some and can never find it when i need it next 01:18:55 speaking of pizza, today we ordered a special gigantic oversized poutine, with sausage, ham, mushrooms and bell peppers in it. 01:19:03 quintopia: what's a kanka? 01:19:05 well i _have_ had OJ, although i only drink half a cup per day as my stomach doesn't hold well with too much sour 01:19:08 that sounds like a good approach to cold weather 01:19:16 boily: medication for canker sores 01:19:54 i probably wouldn't need it if i brushed more regularly eh 01:20:06 so what you gotta do tonight boilyface 01:20:08 ah! something like anbesol! 01:20:14 no 01:20:16 no? 01:20:17 my understanding is that chicken soup for healing is an american thing, possibly jewish in origin. 01:20:26 don't care; has chicken. 01:20:27 anbesol is not waterproof 01:20:34 its for external sores 01:21:08 hm... I'll have to investigate that mysterious product. 01:21:28 meanwhile, tonight is the night where nothing happens much. 01:22:55 so...gaming? 01:23:22 uhm... <_<'... mainly reddit browsing hth 01:23:46 oh :( 01:23:59 so hard to find people who want to game with me 01:24:25 sorry, completely exhausted. I don't know how many hours I worked this week. 01:27:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:28:43 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:28:43 games are work to you? 01:29:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:30:11 Depends on the game and how you play it. 01:30:34 When I play Starcraft, if I'm trying hard to win, it's pretty stressful. 01:31:03 oh i like co-ops 01:31:17 EU IV feels a lot like a job. 01:31:21 just fucking around and messing with stuff 01:34:20 If you don't like Starcraft then play game "I don't know"craft 01:35:39 i don't know if i like starcraft, but i'll play "I don't know"craft when you finish writing it. 01:37:03 Or, try to play Washizu mahjong by internet if you have any software to do so. 01:37:31 I already beat and 100%ed that game 01:53:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SPLIT CHICKEN). 02:02:14 -!- skj3gg has joined. 02:11:48 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:12:37 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 02:24:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:21:07 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 03:44:48 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:47:18 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:58:02 Why is it permitted for names of elements and attributes in XML to contain non-ASCII characters? My opinion is this is stupid and it shoudln't be. Non-ASCII characters should only be allowed in text (both normal and CDATA), values of attributes, and comments. 03:58:51 XML is overly complex as a rule. 04:00:48 Yes it is too complex, although it presumably is doing what it needs to do. Still a few things are a bit stupid. 04:01:17 Take a quick look at the processing instructions. :) 04:05:14 While it does have a lot of extensions, most of them are optional (and does not affect the syntax of the document) so it is not a problem. If you can ignore unknown processing instructions then it might work in some cases. 04:07:06 It does have a few good ideas such as namespaces, although the method of doing this might be a bit more complicated than it should be. 04:09:07 It does have far more complexity than it should have, although some files/services are using XML so a XML parser would be needed. 04:12:48 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:19:25 -!- dulla_ has joined. 04:19:29 -!- dulla has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:19:36 -!- dulla_ has changed nick to dulla. 04:20:48 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:21:00 pikhq: wasn't "overly complex" a design goal? 04:22:47 also related: oh my god I cannot wait for HHTP/2 04:23:54 hyperhyped transfer protocol 04:25:11 coppro: Not really. 04:25:21 It was supposed to be a simplified subset of SGML. 04:26:02 then they forgot to shoot the enterprise people before they started designing. 04:26:48 *HTTP/2 04:43:16 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:48:49 oerjan: Common problem. 05:01:18 Clearly the proper answer is to murder enterprises. 05:25:56 I want to read XML files in SQLite. I don't need DTD and encryption and fancy stuff like that, although I do want namespaces, and it would also help to support queries. 05:30:51 Is there suitable C library to do it with? With simple one file and don't need a configure script and so on 05:31:50 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:48:08 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:50:19 -!- MDude has joined. 06:09:22 -!- chaosagent has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:18:57 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:32:24 -!- vanila has joined. 06:32:25 hi 06:34:47 Hi 06:35:06 whats up 06:37:41 I keep getting distracted from writing things, and need to go to bed. 06:38:30 Also, I got a microSD card but immediatley forgot the adapter to plug it into normal sized SD slots. 06:39:23 Maybe I left that downstars actually. 06:41:13 But yeah, I should write about ideas on chatbots and AI and stuff already instead of waiting until I implement stuff to write about it. 06:41:42 Since getting my idea down somewhere probably helps get to work actually following through with it. 06:42:53 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:47:32 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 06:57:55 What is your idea about it? 07:06:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:07:17 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:08:25 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 07:08:40 -!- bb010g has joined. 07:10:48 MDude 07:10:52 tell em 07:14:13 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:17:22 I don't want to distract myself from sleeping currently. 07:18:03 I'll try to get some stuff written down tomorrow, I'll try to do that first and then link the posts to talk about them. 07:18:19 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 07:19:06 dammit MDream 07:19:36 It's all very simple stuff. 07:19:50 well shit 07:19:57 I'm still interested 07:20:20 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 07:22:19 I think I mentioned some of it before, about making variants of chatbots. 07:22:41 But yeah, I need to make sure I'm not up too late. 07:22:52 variants? 07:23:21 they do something 07:23:23 but 07:23:25 they suck less 07:23:37 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 07:23:49 Of the general idea of how they work. 07:24:19 or they have more general functionality 07:24:41 but that'd require run-time reloading/factoring, or a dynamic structure which is a pain nin the cock 07:24:48 The first idea I had on it was when thinking about how chatbots left in public tend to pick up rude behavior. 07:25:44 If you string two chatbots together, the first one can do the learning, but isntead of speaking directly to the user it can pass it message through a more hardcoded chatbot that paraphrases it. 07:26:15 And from there I came up with other ideas in which a chatbot is considered a node in a larger network. 07:26:59 so more or less a multi-layer ANN for information representation 07:27:05 So that shit stays pg 07:27:16 and that they can't teach your dog to respond to a retarded name 07:27:27 Yeah. 07:27:40 With multiple inputs, it can gather more data in the long run 07:27:58 Though you'd need to enforce some kind of channel-locality to some of the endpoints 07:28:06 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (*.net *.split). 07:28:07 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 07:28:07 -!- paul2520 has quit (*.net *.split). 07:34:04 This seems like a good place to leave it for now, rather than stringing things along further. 07:35:56 -!- paul2520 has joined. 07:46:42 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:55:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:59:59 -!- Lymia has joined. 09:20:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:22:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:30:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:30:10 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:33:06 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:33:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:36:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:36:44 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:47:29 -!- mihow has joined. 10:01:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:35:12 -!- heroux has joined. 10:38:06 -!- augur has joined. 10:51:17 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 10:59:23 -!- augur has quit 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timeout: 265 seconds). 16:02:33 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:04:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:14:44 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:31:33 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:47:51 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:50:43 -!- boily has joined. 16:51:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:56:24 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:01:40 -!- oren has joined. 17:03:11 -!- MDream has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:06:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 17:15:56 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:28:54 -!- adu has joined. 17:33:29 -!- adu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:34:15 -!- adu has joined. 17:41:54 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 17:55:46 -!- conehead has joined. 17:57:54 -!- skj3gg has joined. 18:00:40 -!- mrohman has joined. 18:01:06 This irc client eats 20% cpu 18:01:23 lol 18:01:24 I wonder what it is doing 18:02:01 AndroIRC 18:02:21 Most cpu consuming client ever 18:04:21 Is there yet an or-typesystem? 18:05:48 (List (if p 5 5.0) "hi") has the type 《int or double or string》 18:08:37 mrohman: i've seen such a system for lambda calculus but damn if i can manage to google it 18:09:27 mrohman: I was working on this in my thesis 18:09:29 there are type systems like that. i forget the name. gradual typing systems often have it. typed racket is like that i think 18:09:32 the normal search term is "intersection types" 18:09:38 argh 18:09:47 i tried "disjunctive" or "conjunctive" :P 18:10:13 my favourite prior work on the subject was by Kfoury 18:10:21 let me see if there's a publicly available link 18:10:46 it seems rather obscure to find regardless 18:11:30 actually i'm not sure this is the same thing 18:11:40 what i remember was _untagged_ types 18:12:05 here we go: http://hdl.handle.net/2144/1597 18:12:18 it's a technical report, so should be available even if you don't have subscriptions to every journal in existence 18:12:23 (I like technical reports for that reason) 18:12:35 that's very close to the stuff I was doing in my thesis, btw 18:12:38 e.g. \f x -> f (f x) had a type like ((x -> y) /\ (y -> z)) -> x -> z 18:13:16 oerjan: that's exactly the type it gets in my bounded intersection types 18:13:23 and regular intersection types also give it the same type 18:13:41 also, if you added an omega type that everything belonged to, you could characterize terminating terms in untyped LC as those that could be typed with the omega in only negative positions 18:14:48 (where negative position corresponds roughly to "you can take this as an argument but not return it") 18:15:08 and also to contravariance in functor terms 18:15:13 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 18:15:27 note also that there was no quantification in this type system 18:15:28 -!- skj3gg has joined. 18:16:22 oh and you didn't need omega for strongly normalizing terms 18:16:48 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:17:14 -!- ^v has joined. 18:17:28 come to think of it, this was precisely the subject which got me to make my first SO post, way back 18:17:33 iirc 18:21:58 i guess "top" type mentioned in that report abstract is the same as omega 18:36:14 intersections 18:37:31 Hm 18:38:15 I thought intersection types had something to do with value ranges 18:38:56 Certain expressions in my type system would bind a type 18:39:01 that's probably interval types 18:39:03 For example 18:39:08 ? 18:40:04 (If (isint q) (add 1 q) (strreverse q)) 18:40:25 gah 18:40:40 This would imply that q is (int ot str) 18:40:41 ? 18:40:42 pattern matching is so much more elegant 18:40:58 So the add wouldnt typecheck 18:41:50 However you can add a rule that the if check binds q in subexpressions to a specific type 18:42:31 Which allows that add there typechecks statically as well 18:54:27 So in an essence the only reason for dynamic typed languages is being too lazy to write a typechecker 19:02:45 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:02:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 19:02:45 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:02:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:04:08 mrhello.. mrohello? mrohmhellon??? hmm... hellohman, perhaps? 19:05:38 mrhelloman. I guess dynamic typed languages are "it works until it doesn't and you hit some runtime error", and static are "it doesn't compile until it does". 19:06:26 I think you can write programs in dynamic languages that can't be decidably type-checked (without rewording them) 19:08:30 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:08:36 f(n) = if n == 1 then "hi" / 0 else if odd n then f(3*n+1) else f(n `div` 2) 19:09:46 I'm not sure ghc will accept a blatant use of ‘"hi" / 0’. 19:11:14 > f(n) = if n == 1 then "hi" / 0 else if odd n then f(3*n+1) else f(n `div` 2) 19:11:15 :1:6: parse error on input ‘=’ 19:11:27 > let f(n) = if n == 1 then "hi" / 0 else if odd n then f(3*n+1) else f(n `div` 2) 19:11:28 not an expression: ‘let f(n) = if n == 1 then "hi" / 0 else if odd n then f(... 19:11:31 boily: this is supposed to be a dynamical language hth 19:11:32 hmm 19:11:32 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:11:38 > let f(n) = if n == 1 then "hi" / 0 else if odd n then f(3*n+1) else f(n `div` 2) in 0 19:11:39 Could not deduce (GHC.Real.Fractional [GHC.Types.Char]) 19:11:39 arising from a use of ‘GHC.Real./’ 19:11:39 from the context (GHC.Num.Num a) 19:11:43 there we go 19:11:43 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 19:12:04 I think that would work in a hypothetical dynamically typed Haskell 19:12:18 yes, but it cannot be typechecked then 19:12:18 although it has to end in either type mismatch error, or an infinite loop 19:12:54 i assume the point is to have a typechecking that is equivalent to "only err if the program would dynamically do so" 19:13:20 because otherwise, what's the question really. 19:13:53 right 19:13:59 in which case it's obviously undecidable due to TCness 19:14:14 err, due to halting problem 19:17:28 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 19:24:25 > let f n = if n == 1 then "hi" 0 else if odd n then f (3*n+1) else f (n `div` 2) in 0 19:24:26 Couldn't match expected type ‘a0 -> t’ 19:24:26 with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’ 19:24:26 Relevant bindings include f :: a1 -> t (bound at :1:5) 19:24:44 > let f n = if n == 1 then 1337 else if odd n then f (3*n+1) else f (n `div` 2) in 0 19:24:46 0 19:24:54 > let f n = if n == 1 then 1337 else if odd n then f (3*n+1) else f (n `div` 2) in f 0 19:24:58 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:25:04 > let f n = if n == 1 then 1337 else if odd n then f (3*n+1) else f (n `div` 2) in f 1 19:25:06 1337 19:25:10 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 19:25:11 neat 19:25:33 > let f n = if n == 1 then 1337 else if odd n then f (3*n+1) else f (n `div` 2) in f 3 19:25:34 1337 19:25:42 > let f n = if n == 1 then 1337 else if odd n then f (3*n+1) else f (n `div` 2) in f 9 19:25:43 1337 19:30:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ACORN CHICKEN). 19:37:58 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 19:52:27 -!- mitchs has quit (Quit: mitchs). 20:04:48 -!- mitchs has joined. 20:16:53 -!- mrohman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:18:30 -!- skj3gg has joined. 20:19:12 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:28:44 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 20:29:55 -!- skj3gg has joined. 20:39:55 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:44:25 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:45:39 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 20:47:41 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:47:43 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to Guest87001. 20:48:44 -!- Guest87001 has quit (Changing host). 20:48:44 -!- Guest87001 has joined. 20:48:52 -!- Guest87001 has changed nick to GeekDude. 21:02:04 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 21:09:26 -!- oren has joined. 21:14:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:20:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:23:15 -!- mrohman has joined. 21:23:19 Whaat 21:24:01 Of course i can typecheck it even if its tc 21:25:10 not in such a way that exactly the non-erring programs fail to typecheck 21:25:15 er 21:25:43 PLEASE ADD/REMOVE A NEGATION AS APPROPRIATE 21:25:44 Hm? 21:26:39 mrohman: you cannot make a typechecker that accepts all programs that wouldn't give a dynamic error and none that would, and does so before running the program 21:27:03 Oh 21:27:46 You mean (if p a b ) where b produces a runtime type error 21:27:56 yeah 21:28:04 But you cant decide p 21:28:15 True 21:28:31 But thats not what i'm aiming for 21:29:30 It's just that i want the style of such languages with static typechecking 21:29:58 i think the word "hybrid" belongs in there somewhere then hth 21:30:56 Which means that you have to account for ifs not always returning the same type 21:31:25 did you know that "hybrid types" gives you a lot of information on cars tdnh unless that's what you're looking for i guess 21:31:57 You wont need runtime typechecks then 21:32:32 But runtime type info 21:33:41 -!- mrohman has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:39:32 -!- skj3gg has joined. 21:47:26 You could make the compiler to defer the error until runtime, although this doesn't seems like very good in most cases (although maybe in some cases it might help, if it is possible at all in such case). 21:49:52 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 21:53:05 -!- adu has joined. 21:58:22 -!- skj3gg has joined. 22:09:01 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:22:05 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 22:39:34 -!- skj3gg has joined. 22:40:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:45:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:02:33 I can't tell if this soundfont has piano keys that last too long or if this music is just bad 23:19:48 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 23:26:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:27:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:27:46 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:36:48 Sgeo, you could say that is a key question 23:39:34 * Sgeo goes to buy all Ray Lynch music on Amazon 23:46:03 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:52:14 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).