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01:08:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42104&oldid=42072 * Ypnypn * (+29)
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01:12:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42105&oldid=42104 * Ypnypn * (+0)
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01:59:44 <zzo38> I figured out now that the URI of a UUID is "urn:uuid:" followed by the UUID in lowercase
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02:35:00 <oren> is it cheaper to buy one large SD card or several smaller ones?
02:37:38 <oren> hmm, price seems to be linear with the data size
02:38:31 <oren> no wait, it's not linear. WTF
02:39:46 <oren> 64GB=70$ 32GB=17$ 16GB=10$
02:40:19 <oren> so I guess the best deal is at 32gb sdcards?
02:40:27 <FireFly> Eh, i think you can find cheaper SD cards than that
02:40:47 <FireFly> well, check the data rate and such too, I guess
02:40:57 <oren> this is on futureshop.ca... maybe if I go to koreatown
02:41:12 <FireFly> Don't you have any price comparison sites over there?
02:42:18 <FireFly> I seem to be able to find 64GB SDXC cards for ~300 SEK ≈ 35 USD
02:43:03 <oren> Ooh, I see... walmart has much better prices
02:45:00 <fizzie> As said, not all SD cards are equal from a performance point of view.
02:45:48 <oren> I don't think i need high speed, this is just to put in my mp3 player
02:47:34 <oren> What does "class 10" mean?
02:48:30 <oren> Oh, I see, it means the same as 100x CD drive
02:49:05 <oren> Or something like that
02:50:11 <fizzie> 10 MB/s, or some such. Though it can get confusing.
02:50:48 <fizzie> Like UHS class 1 is regular class 10 or something.
02:52:13 <fizzie> Some cards probably still have those "133x"-style numbers related to nominal CD drive speeds.
02:55:01 <oren> Well it seems there's little benefit to getting multiple smaller sd cards
02:56:26 <oren> So I'll just get one 64GB one
02:56:38 <fizzie> Usually the GB/$ curve has a peak somewhere in the middle.
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03:41:30 <f|`-`|f> The newer generation rival sata 3 drives!
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03:52:33 <oren> Hmm... Suppose a genetic algorithm had its mutations driven by a neural network.
03:58:54 <elliott> now you have two buzzwords
04:14:30 <MDude> The reverse sounds like the more obvious arrangment.
04:15:47 <MDude> But I don't see why reversing them wouldn't be interesting.
04:17:56 <MDude> So you mean a genetic algorithm where the fitness is determined by the output of a neural network that analyses the candidates using its own learning criteria?
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04:29:41 <oren> MDude: yeah that is what i was thinking
04:30:07 <oren> elliott: but that also factored in
04:32:05 <MDude> Sounds nice, though that depends on it being made to do a cool thing. What kind of things would you have it do?
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05:12:10 <zzo38> Gopher doesn't have the problem of needing to program the files on the server for different kind of devices, user interfaces, etc; it already is suitable for any kind of interface and was ever since it was invented. (This includes keyboard, mouse, printing terminal, hand-held, touch-screen, game-system, and even by fax where you have to fill in the circles by pencil)
05:13:19 <zzo38> Yet, a lot of people won't use it. You have to learn to write a gopher server, gopher client, and also to set up the server
05:25:09 <zzo38> Phase In {1U} Instant :: Phase in all cards that are currently phased out. :: Cycling {2}
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06:54:47 <zzo38> A new kind of Limited format of Magic: the Gathering could be, each player gets ten additional cards, the same set of ten cards each player, those cards must be used in each player's deck and cannot be placed into the sideboard before the game starts. These cards are selected at random from everything. After that then you do draft or sealed, and can choose which of those cards to include and exclude and to add basic lands.
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11:37:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Damian Yerrick * New user account
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11:40:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[C-]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42106&oldid=31176 * Damian Yerrick * (+158) Not to be confused with real C--
11:43:27 <Jafet> Real C--, complex C++
11:43:41 <mroman> People should just use BCPL
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12:10:37 <Taneb> mroman, C-- is an intermediate language GHC uses
12:11:17 <mroman> Since SPJ is involved in it :)
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12:23:31 <mroman> are there LISP editors with scaling parantheses?
12:39:35 <mroman> (i.e. the outermost parantheses will be largest and possibly span multiple lines)
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13:32:28 <oerjan> <mroman> Is C-- still a thing? <-- it basically lost to llvm
13:33:20 <oerjan> so is probably only used in ghc, ironically often with an llvm backend.
13:46:19 <oren> Can you write llvm code directly
13:46:40 <oren> or is it binary?
13:47:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42107&oldid=42105 * Ypnypn * (+104) /* Program flow */
13:48:04 <oren> define i32 @main(i32 %argc, i8** %argv) nounwind {
13:48:16 <oerjan> but i recall some haskell-related talk about whether to use the binary api or the written representation
13:48:16 <oren> Looks cool to me.
13:49:24 <oerjan> and i vaguely recall that the binary api is recommended if you're generating it by program
13:55:19 <oren> *reading docs* ohhh, no-unwind, not noun-wind!
13:57:52 <oren> Apparently you can tell it to use any number of bits for an integer
13:59:29 <oren> Maybe i'll start writing in this instead of C
14:25:45 <oren> elliott: is it cross-platform to all x86-64?
14:26:04 <elliott> well, actually probably not
14:26:18 <elliott> since win64 and linux differ on calling conventions, but then it's not OS-portable either
14:26:32 <elliott> well maybe you could write OS-portable LLVM IR if you really tried but it sounds hard
14:26:57 <oren> ZSNES is written in cross platform assembly somehow
14:31:23 <oren> I guess they could use their own call convention for internal calls?
14:31:45 <elliott> and lots of ifdefs for portability
14:32:15 <elliott> anyway, LLVM is SSA, it's not very human-writable :p
14:32:29 <oren> Hmm what does the CLR run on?
14:33:28 <oren> Oh, right it runs on CIL
14:34:26 <oren> CIL looks a lotmore writable
14:37:09 <oren> I mean, it is still an assembly language. But it has first-class string type
14:37:34 <elliott> it's also totally different to LLVM
14:37:43 <elliott> LLVM is for generating compiled, optimised native code, usually
14:37:54 <elliott> LLVM is a compiler backend/intermediate language, not really a VM any more
14:38:08 <oren> Can you not compile CLR though?
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14:38:58 <oren> no wait, of course you can, I have exe's that i compiled from C#.
14:41:12 <oren> Unless C# exes are internally just bytecode?
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14:52:31 <oren> Apparently you can do either jit compilation or compile to a native exe ahead of time.
14:55:41 <elliott> there is some kind of CIL compiler though maybe I think. it might be new?
14:55:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42108&oldid=42107 * Ypnypn * (+2128) /* Constants */
14:55:52 <elliott> but the VM is still at a higher-level to LLVM, by far.
14:55:57 <elliott> LLVM doesn't know about objects or even heap allocation.
14:57:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42109&oldid=42103 * Oerjan * (+121) Now categories on the other hand
15:20:23 <oren> to be fair, C by itself technically doesn't know about the heap either
15:20:53 <oren> C++ does though
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15:31:14 <oren> nope, apparently you can just load your own version of the new operatorif you're psycho enough
15:33:42 <FreeFull> You can run C# .exes in mono as long as they don't make use of windows-specific APIs (Windows Forms does work)
15:42:43 <coppro> oren: C++ doesn't know about the heap specifically, although it has a more detailed memory model
15:42:56 <coppro> C++ tends to do everything better than C these days
15:47:33 <oren> coppro: have they abandoned bugward compatibility to C yet?
15:50:59 <coppro> they haven't changed the major misfeatures of C which have been baked into the language, but on small things, they've broken it
15:51:17 <coppro> and they only give the slightest damn what the C committee thinks these days
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17:13:48 <oren> Oh god, that's scary. Someone just pointed out to me that I can't look at a word without reading it.
17:16:07 <int-e> Seems to be a matter of choosing the proper script for the task.
17:16:54 <HackEgo> olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
17:16:56 <int-e> oren: this works for me, for example: https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%A6%D9%8A%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A9
17:20:43 <oren> Which implies that i'm slowly losing my ability to look at a chinese character without reading it, as i gain the ability to read them
17:22:04 <pikhq> Yeah, that's a fun one.
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18:27:22 <oren> The new macbook has only one USB-C port on the whole thing.... what the actual fuck?
18:28:18 <oren> $19 adapter to get a normal usb port on the damn thing
18:28:34 <FireFly> Well, admittedly it looks very clean
18:28:57 <FireFly> Your phone probably only has a micro-USB slot
18:29:10 <oren> I don't own a phone
18:29:59 <oren> Does the macbook have a headphone jack even?
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18:31:38 <oren> Doesn't look like it does. There. They just killed it
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18:34:08 <oren> Oh, so it has one, but none of their pictures showed it
18:43:59 <fizzie> What surprised me was the whole thing where you charge it through that single USB type C port, too.
18:44:32 <fizzie> I think they had some kind of an adapter so that you could charge it while still having a USB device connected?
18:45:26 <fizzie> This work laptop has a nonstandandard mini-connector for Ethernet.
18:46:09 <fizzie> You need a dongle to stick in a regular cable. But the dongle is not a regular USB-to-Ethernet thing, it's just an adapter for the custom connector.
18:46:34 <fizzie> Admittedly it's slightly smaller than a USB port, so I guess it saves space over having a third USB port.
18:47:01 <fizzie> (It's got two regular USB 3's.)
18:47:38 <fizzie> The specs page lists the Ethernet port as a "Ethernet Extension Connection".
18:48:30 <fizzie> There's also a mini-DP and a full-size HDMI, so I guess for an "ultrabook" this thing is relatively okay.
18:48:47 <fizzie> The keyboard is ridiculous, though.
18:49:30 <oren> I usually use a usb keyboard and a usb mouse when i use my computer at a desk
18:50:12 <oren> (well, on my previous laptop that was necessary. this one has a fullsize keyboard)
18:50:34 <oren> but I use the same setup out of habit
18:51:05 <fizzie> This thing is just weird. Caps lock and backspace have been split in the middle (with no gap, just a sort of a bevel thing) into a Home/End and backspace/delete bi-keys.
18:52:39 <fizzie> And the function key row is a strip of some sort of touch-sensitive material, and touching the leftmost edge swaps between showing F1..F12 (plus four random special symbols) and showing more special stuff (bridgness, volume, some symbols I have no idea what they mean).
18:53:31 <fizzie> Like, there's a single symbol that has a camera and a hand and some extra "motion" lines for the hand. So it's the "wave hand at camera" button.
18:54:11 <oren> I have seen some cray keyboards but nothing like that
18:54:57 <fizzie> One is the "cut" symbol, and then there's a cloud, and then there's a "speaking" icon (face and "sound waves" from the mouth).
18:55:09 <fizzie> None of these result in any events as seen by xev.
18:55:20 <fizzie> I doubt they've really had Linux in mind for this thing.
18:55:49 <oren> my friend has this monstrous 20" abomination that has a light-up volume slider thing and a fingerprint password thing
18:56:17 <fizzie> Oh, there's a fingerprint sensor next to the keyboard on this too.
18:56:32 <fizzie> For the record, this thing is the Lenovo "X1 Carbon" ThinkPad.
18:56:56 <fizzie> Although I seem to recall they had two separate hardware revisions, and maybe the keyboard in the first one was less weird or something.
18:57:06 <fizzie> All reviews about this thing I've seen have mostly complained about the keyboard.
18:57:33 <oren> Yeah my friend's laptop is also a lenovo of some sort
18:57:36 <fizzie> Though it's pretty nice as far as regular typing and such goes. The touch-panel for the function keys lacks any feel, of course.
18:58:18 <oren> Or... maybe it's an asus?
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19:08:27 <oren> Well, I looked up the laptop, looks like the newest version has a more normal keyboard
19:11:44 <oren> FP: "the new macbook has only 8GB of RAM" Me: "only? ONLY?"
19:15:46 <fizzie> Yeah, this one has only 8GB too.
19:16:03 <FireFly> fizzie: split caps lock actually sounds like a neat idea... I mean, it's not as if its original function is any useful, and if you're going to replace it you might as well stick two keys there instead of just one
19:16:41 <fizzie> FireFly: It's possibly not a bad idea for anyone who had been keeping it as a caps lock and never pressing it.
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19:16:59 <fizzie> FireFly: If you've done the popular thing and swapped ctrl/capslock, it's probably somewhat confusing.
19:17:18 <FireFly> I have ctrl/esc on my caps lock
19:17:51 <FireFly> I wouldn't mind being able to put another modifier on the left half of the caps lock (since it's the right half I tend to reach for the ctrl/esc functionality)
19:17:54 <fizzie> Is that one of the "modifier when pressed with something, esc when pressed alone" kind of thing?
19:18:53 <fizzie> This keyboard also moves esc down from the function row, so that it's right next to '1'.
19:19:54 <fizzie> And the key formerly next to 1 (which is §/½ in the Finnish keymap, and not-and-broken-bar or some-such in UK) is between altgr and ctrl on the right side of the spacebar, the place where you'd normally find a menu key and maybe a right Windows key.
19:20:13 <fizzie> There's no menu key in this thing at all, which I mind a little, since I've used that as compose.
19:22:33 <Melvar> I wonder if I’m the only one who thinks replacing capslock with level3shift is the best thing.
19:22:42 <fizzie> An image is worth a kiloword, so https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4J9OAzXNfZAejVOUmt5eVpQZkk/view
19:23:08 <fizzie> Since I'm here in Mountain View anyway, I went to the Computer History Museum on Sunday.
19:23:33 <fizzie> There was one of those Lisp machines with the Symbolics six-modifier keyboards there.
19:23:55 <fizzie> (Control, shift, symbol, meta, super and hyper.)
19:25:07 * Melvar looks. Has control, shift, level3shift, level5shift, alt, super.
19:26:25 <fizzie> There was also a Connection Machine cube, but it's pretty boring with no leds lit.
19:28:00 <fizzie> And there's the working Difference Engine No. 2. They've also got one back in London, but I don't think they show people how it runs.
19:28:23 <Melvar> fizzie: Do those home|end and ⌫|delete keys send the codes one would expect from the keys with the same engraving on a more usual keyboard?
19:28:42 <fizzie> Melvar: As far as I can tell, yes. At least they worked out of the box.
19:29:26 <Melvar> Bah. >ω> So every other layout has to be tweaked to work right on it.
19:30:02 <fizzie> Depends on what you mean by "right". I mean, if you want them to do what they say they do...
19:30:31 <fizzie> I'm using a boring unmodified "setxkbmap fi nodeadkeys" on this. But I don't use the laptop all that much either.
19:32:03 <Melvar> Actually, it’s not as bad as some.
19:32:51 <oren> For my rgular input, I am using a custom IME with ` mapped to a whole bunch of shortcuts
19:35:08 <Melvar> I wonder why, if laptop vendors are fine with sticking the keypad into the main block + fn, they don’t do so with the rest of the stuff outside the main block.
19:37:49 <int-e> because volume control and opening a browser with the vendor's homepage are important features?
19:38:03 <int-e> (I made up the latter, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a real thing.)
19:40:03 <fizzie> int-e: The "adaptive keys" in this thing are supposed to have five modes: home mode, web-browser mode, web-conference mode, function mode and lay-flat mode.
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19:40:14 <Melvar> I haven’t ever seen them fill up the left side of the keyboard with that.
19:40:24 <fizzie> I don't know how to get to all those modes, the toggle-mode switch on Linux just toggles between two.
19:41:00 <fizzie> The home mode and the function mode, apparently.
19:42:15 <fizzie> Heh. The cloud key "opens the predefined cloud application".
19:42:53 <oren> the butt key opens the predefined butt application
19:48:21 <oren> Hmm, my computer has mostly useful buttons. My external keyboard, however, has a full range of useless keys from calculator to five "multimedia keys"
19:49:55 <L8D> so is bfjoust still a thing? or did that finally die?
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19:52:01 <oren> zemhill is on the channel
19:52:21 <L8D> but is it still popular?
19:52:57 <L8D> I'll assume it's not
19:53:53 <FireFly> oren: if "multimedia keys" means volume control, I would say that's actually useful
19:54:33 <oren> no, it means pause, play, stop, forward and back.
19:55:09 <oren> the volume control knob isn't a key and is useful
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19:56:55 <oren> I should map these keys to useful things. like opening a new terminal
19:57:54 <oren> the multimedia keys could be useful if they switched windows around
19:59:52 <FireFly> I find media control to be pretty useful, although I don't have any dedicated keys for it (and even if I did, I probably wouldn't use them) so I have mapped play/pause, prev, next to win+alt+(h,t,n) instead
20:00:29 <fizzie> L8D: BFJousting usually happens in waves. It's not popular now, but it might well be again in the future.
20:00:48 <L8D> fizzie: makes sense
20:00:50 * Melvar would have something similar if he ever figured out an easy reliable way to do it.
20:00:54 <oren> Mostly when I play music I just put on a 5-12 hour youtube videos, so the media keys don't even work
20:01:01 <fizzie> It's happened several times already. There's a brief (a week or two) boom, and then things die down again.
20:02:29 <Melvar> FireFly: Media control.
20:04:06 <FireFly> I bind the keys to `mpc toggle`, `mpc prev`, `mpc next` using xbindkeys
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20:06:30 <Melvar> I don’t use mpd; I’d want it to affect rhythmbox and vlc, depending on if vlc is running.
20:07:09 <FireFly> Hm, maybe you could come up with something using dbus
20:07:39 -!- pikhq has joined.
20:08:10 <Melvar> Yeah, there’s a protocol there, but I never got around to using it.
20:08:41 <Melvar> I did actually manage to make volume keys work, which is a separate issue.
20:09:23 <Melvar> (I don’t have them on my keyboard, but my headset sends appropriate keyboard events.)
20:16:08 <fizzie> I made volume keys work the other day as XMonad bindings.
20:16:39 <Melvar> That is in fact how I did it too.
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20:20:50 * oerjan idly ping Gregor just in case
20:23:59 <oerjan> <newsham> `olist <-- thanks although ideally you should include the number hth
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20:27:28 <BlueProtoman> I feel like running a strange and obscure operating system for some reason. Any ideas? In fact, are esoteric operating systems even a thing?
20:28:21 <BlueProtoman> oerjan: Beat you to it, someone suggested it in another channel
20:28:45 <oerjan> other thoughts: oberon or plan 9
20:28:56 * oerjan hasn't tried any of those personally, mind you
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20:31:52 <FireFly> "are esoteric operating systems even a thing?" Well #osdev is a thing
20:31:58 <FireFly> You can probably find some esoteric OSes there
20:36:06 <fizzie> Obscure operating systems are certainly a thing people do.
20:37:02 <Taneb> There's http://dangermouse.net/esoteric/pavlov.html
20:37:18 <Taneb> http://dangermouse.net/esoteric/petrovich.html rather
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20:37:42 <oerjan> Taneb: that explains why it didn't ring a bell
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20:39:32 <fizzie> Soon it's just "Fr", and then "F", and then "".
20:40:04 <oerjan> i suspect some of those may not be available
20:40:16 -!- oerjan has changed nick to Fr.
20:40:22 -!- Fr has changed nick to F.
20:40:31 -!- F has changed nick to oerjan.
20:40:41 <fizzie> I assume you at least got some "has been registered" messages?
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20:48:42 <oerjan> Frooxius: you're gradually approaching a #fixyourconnection ban hth
20:49:15 <oerjan> (if i can remember the actual syntax)
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20:52:05 <oerjan> it doesn't help that i cannot seem to google it
20:52:08 <fizzie> +b nick!user@host$#channel. Or possibly ##channel.
20:52:22 <oerjan> um it's the precise channel i'm trying to google
20:52:41 <fizzie> ##c uses ##stop_join_flood.
20:53:05 <fizzie> (I know it's not the only similar channel.)
20:53:34 <oerjan> oh it seems to be ##fixyourconnection
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21:38:05 <oerjan> trac still molasses, well it should be fixed soon since i saw spj complain >:)
21:38:06 <int-e> oerjan: a gerund, not an adjective.
21:38:22 <oerjan> oh i didn't interpret it any other way
21:38:41 <oerjan> i just didn't connect it with the ##fixyourconnection discussion at first
21:39:30 <oerjan> sheesh it actually timed out
21:39:58 <int-e> (s/connect/*connect*/g for emphasis)
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21:42:35 * oerjan suddenly starst wondering what fmnssun means
22:10:12 <oren> f minus sun? ~
22:17:56 <oren> that does not really help?
22:19:05 <oerjan> you're getting the hang of this!
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23:01:31 <boily> sgthot? what's a sgthot twh plzkthx
23:02:24 <oerjan> still getting the hang of this hth
23:03:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:03:50 <boily> (also, hellørjan, because traditions.)
23:04:01 <boily> (and Jafellot btw!)
23:04:03 <Jafet> Someone who isn't Sgt Cool
23:05:08 <oerjan> just acronymize to swisc and it'll all be clear (tsial)
23:05:59 <boily> The Psong Sof Ice And Lire?
23:07:38 <boily> Supernatural Wraith In Substantial Corpses? Tremendous Spectres Isolated from Abyssal Lands?
23:09:21 <oerjan> t** p******* s******* i* a l** hth
23:11:40 * boily brains... thinks... grinds...
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23:27:53 <FireFly> You could acronymize hellørjan to hø
23:30:11 <FireFly> "tsial" works as well for some values of t, fwiw
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23:46:16 <oren> ak-RAW-nim-ize
23:48:31 <boily> the Sgeo is a lie?
23:50:52 <oerjan> that explains so much!
23:53:35 <oerjan> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2803 hth
23:53:51 <oerjan> (got this via the iwc forum, i think)
23:55:19 <oerjan> also that was too hard to find, i hate that IE seems to only find _some_ urls when autocompleting from the logs :(
23:56:23 <boily> oren: Downtack De I??? And no, I won't use soda.
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23:57:25 <oren> it is a angry face, in referance to higurashi hth