←2015-03-18 2015-03-19 2015-03-20→ ↑2015 ↑all
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00:12:23 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150319-mtv.jpg
00:12:23 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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00:31:01 <int-e> oerjan: They're entirely different. ш is /ʃ/ while сь is /s'/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejective_consonant has a sample of the latter.
00:31:34 <int-e> (so fortunately my first instinct was about right: s' starts out pretty much like a normal s)
00:31:51 <int-e> (but I wasn't certain enough about that to share that idea)
00:33:45 <int-e> g'night
00:34:15 <oerjan> java still keeps blocking wikipedia's sound app :(
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00:36:24 <oerjan> @tell int-e I am extremely skeptical at your ejective consonant claim, are you sure the ' you found was really meant as the proper ipa symbol?
00:36:25 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:36:39 <int-e> no.
00:37:18 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_phonology doesn't use that symbol
00:38:42 <int-e> Still... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Ru-%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%81%D1%8C.ogg
00:38:56 <int-e> nowhere near /ʃ/
00:39:10 <oerjan> which one
00:39:19 <int-e> высь
00:39:37 <int-e> on the page you just linked to
00:39:41 <oerjan> bah
00:40:06 <oerjan> i basically cannot listen to any mediawiki sounds
00:40:51 <int-e> [sʲ] is what they use there, mm.
00:41:52 <int-e> Anyway, I really should sleep.
00:42:36 <oerjan> sweet dreams
00:44:03 <oerjan> if ш is in the same spot as ж then i think i get a better idea, the latter is supposedly slightly retroflexy
00:44:30 <oerjan> oh wait it says retroflex on the ipa link
00:44:41 <boily> fungot: are you retroflexy?
00:44:42 <fungot> boily: well then. how's the implementation?') on channel in case am being ignored, since i don't think
00:45:01 <boily> fungot: yes you think.
00:45:01 <fungot> boily: that was a bit of predicates
00:45:08 <boily> fungot: touché.
00:45:08 <fungot> boily: the whole point of standards is fnord? ( i never used modems as file storages! type `/msg egobot !hangman word
00:45:15 <oerjan> ok ш is supposedly about the same as norwegian rs
00:45:59 <oerjan> ah fungot has detected the true evil of standards
00:45:59 <fungot> oerjan: maybe you?)) for fnord and fnord." and by " right thing"
00:45:59 <boily> oerjan: you got me trying to pronounce an «r» at the same place as a ш. it's not a good feeling.
00:46:20 <oerjan> boily: um rs is _not_ a trill in norwegian hth
00:46:37 <oerjan> it's just an honest-to-goodness retroflex fricative
00:46:39 <boily> what? “rs” is a digraph?
00:46:43 <oerjan> yes
00:46:51 * boily shudders
00:46:57 <oerjan> r+dental generally means retroflex in norwegian
00:47:11 <oerjan> sometimes even across word boundaries
00:47:52 <boily> yesterday I learned that I'm French, and today you're telling me that retroflexes spill across boundaries. we live in a mad world.
00:48:44 <oerjan> indeed
00:49:06 <oerjan> on the plus side, that's about the only sandhi/liaison norwegian has
00:49:13 <oerjan> iirc
00:51:25 <oerjan> boily: norwegian has many digraphs. gj, kj, sj, even a trigraph: skj (same sound as sj)
00:52:28 * boily sings «gje gje gje gje ♪»
00:52:29 <oerjan> sk may count too, it's also the same sound in front of some vowels/diphthongs
00:52:52 <oerjan> boily: that's exactly how it's pronounced
00:53:02 <oerjan> may also be written just j
00:53:12 <oerjan> or just g in front of the same vowels
00:53:52 <oerjan> that's a general feature of the combinations ending in j
00:55:05 <oerjan> we're not big on unique spelling of phonemes
00:58:15 * oerjan idly tests that his own dialect also sandhis palatalization
00:58:33 <oerjan> but that's not a feature of the norwegian that's taught to foreigners
00:58:46 <oren> sandhi tte nani?
00:59:01 <oerjan> oren: wat
00:59:14 <oren> what is sandhi?
00:59:58 <oerjan> a term from sanskrit
01:00:25 <oerjan> that language is supposedly even fiercer than french at making phonology cross word boundaries
01:01:04 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandhi
01:02:09 <oerjan> french "liaison" is a subset
01:04:06 <oerjan> apparently it also covers things inside words
01:04:46 <oerjan> i guess norwegian has some more of that
01:06:12 <oren> Hmm... So japanese rendaku is included
01:06:21 <oerjan> was just about to mention that
01:07:45 <boily> French liaison is strangely logical, and goes with the actually written spelled letters.
01:09:18 <oren> if only the french would put ' whereever letters aren't said, that would be great
01:10:13 <oren> like je parl' tu parl'
01:11:10 <oerjan> nic' idea
01:11:53 <oren> A'tho' not that english has any ri't telling french what to do in that regard
01:12:31 <oerjan> bless you
01:13:13 <oren> seriously I can't think of a word in which 'gh' is pronounced
01:13:32 <oren> Oh, rite, the word laff!
01:15:01 <oren> (that is, 'laugh' which is not /læug/)
01:16:17 <oren> A good moderate spelling reform would be to respell all words containing 'gh'
01:17:16 <oren> (except benghazi and other legitimately foreign words)
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01:21:39 <boily> ch'parl', tsu parl', i parl', a parl', on parl', vous parlez, i parl'.
01:22:00 <boily> (probably «vou parlé» if you're going to be phonetic.)
01:22:26 <oerjan> tsu? a?
01:22:52 <oerjan> you are not making a good argument for making french spelling phonetic :P
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01:23:39 <oren> the brite gost ruffly laffed at the eity hi firefiters
01:23:42 * oerjan has no idea what "a" is supposed to be
01:24:12 <oerjan> ok unless you're crazy enough to pronounce elle that way
01:24:58 <boily> muah ah ah ah ah.
01:25:13 <boily> yes, it's informally pronounced that way.
01:25:28 <oren> of course the words tho and thru are already standard spellings
01:26:16 <boily> oren: /se.skæ.lɑ.dzi/ ← “that's what she said”
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01:27:03 <boily> s/oren/oerjan/, but I guess oren fits too.
01:27:29 <oren> ce est que l'elle dit?
01:28:19 <oren> did I get that right?
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01:28:27 <boily> «c'est ce qu'elle a dit», but close enough.
01:28:29 <oren> s/right/rite/
01:29:02 <oren> enuff
01:29:59 <boily> the /l/ in there is liaison between «elle» and «a». if it hadn't been there, it would've been /se.skæˑ.dzi/ «c'est ce qu'elle dit».
01:30:58 <oren> feendish
01:31:50 <oerjan> devadehosa
01:32:05 <boily> what's a devadehosa?
01:32:20 <oerjan> *dævadæhosa
01:33:08 <boily> fungot: oerjan is speaking in tongues again. care to translate?
01:33:09 <fungot> boily: very cool. fpga). fnord) some kind of pervert. " let out your inner perl programmer!
01:33:32 <oerjan> very good, except the perl
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01:34:41 <oerjan> boily: i merely translated your phrase to my dialect. after a brief detour through some other dialect because i couldn't remember my own hth also it's stressed on the o
01:35:32 <oerjan> (it may possibly be my grandparents')
01:35:48 <oren> print"this is a regex matching itself"if($i~=s/(??{$i})/)
01:36:27 * boily mapoles oren for public indecency
01:36:55 <boily> oerjan: that's what your grandmother said.
01:37:16 <oerjan> devadehofarmorsa
01:41:58 <oren> hmm, so we have fite-fought, buy-bought, seek-sought, and teach-taught. What the hell is this somewhat-regular insanity
01:42:21 <oren> fight
01:42:57 <oren> So we'd spell them fot, bot, sot, and tot respectively?
01:44:35 <boily> ring-rang-rung, sing-sang-sung, bring-brang-brung...
01:45:00 <oren> brot
01:45:12 <boily> boring. (borang, borung :P)
01:45:49 <oren> P:
01:46:02 <boily> I can't do that, my tongue's not long enough.
01:46:35 <oerjan> proto-indoeuropean was a badass language
01:46:58 <oren> oerjan: based on phonology alone, even
01:47:08 <oerjan> yep
01:47:13 <boily> (French verbs are regular too! devoir-dû, avoir-eu, lire-lu, mouvoir-mu, pouvoir-pu, savoir-su, taire-tu, voir-vu...)
01:47:34 <boily> (s/mu/mû/)
01:47:44 <oerjan> boily: but you can't blame those on PIE so much
01:48:21 <oren> drive drove driven dive dove divven?
01:48:21 <boily> my feeling is that pouvoir and voir can be easily traced back to PIE without too many changes.
01:48:37 <oerjan> maybe a time traveller took french back and it eventually turned into PIE
01:48:52 <boily> drive driven, gave given, it's dangerous to stay ♪
01:49:03 <oerjan> boily: well sure, but the fact they're that irregular in french isn't really PIE's fault
01:49:11 <oren> potere
01:49:16 <oerjan> unlike sing/sang/sung
01:49:24 <oerjan> oren: potesse, actually
01:49:26 <oerjan> wait
01:49:28 <oerjan> *posse
01:49:36 <oerjan> wait
01:49:41 <oerjan> let me look it up
01:50:08 <oerjan> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/possum#Latin
01:50:11 <oerjan> posse was right
01:50:33 <oerjan> so yeah it was irregular in latin but french turned it up a notch
01:50:52 <oerjan> voir wasn't really that irregular though
01:50:58 <oren> I like the way only two verbs in Japanese are irregular
01:51:02 <oerjan> ...ok maybe a little
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01:51:29 <oren> unfortunately they are very common verbs
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01:51:54 <boily> avoir and être have endless resources of fun! syncretism for the win!
01:52:15 <oerjan> i think avoir was entirely regular in latin
01:53:01 <oerjan> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/habeo
01:53:02 <boily> j'ai, j'aurai, j'avais, j'ai eu, que j'aie...
01:53:35 <boily> je suis, je serai, j'étais, j'ai été, que je sois.
01:53:38 <oerjan> être not so much, and i learned the other day that some of that _does_ go back to PIE
01:54:43 <oren> taberu-tabenai-tabeta-tabemasu(eat) iru-inai-itta-imasu(to be) but then... kuru-konai-katta-kimasu(to come, WTF)
01:54:45 <boily> Spanish kept their ser y estar separate, whereas we conflagrated ours.
01:55:17 <oerjan> hm i'm not sure whether ha in norwegian counts as irregular or not.
01:55:19 <boily> oren: I'm drawing a blank for する's past...
01:55:27 <oren> boily: that means to burn, you want conflated, to conflagrated
01:55:29 <oerjan> være (to be) certainly does
01:55:44 <boily> `? conflagration
01:55:45 <HackEgo> conflagration? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:55:52 <boily> darn. what was it again?
01:56:03 <boily> oren: I know. it was entirely volitional.
01:56:05 <oerjan> otoh verbs have so few forms you can't really get up to french proportions regardless
01:56:15 <boily> `? szoup
01:56:16 <HackEgo> A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit.
01:56:21 <boily> nope.
01:56:21 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/*con*
01:56:22 <HackEgo> wisdom/conspirabiology \ wisdom/context
01:56:29 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/*fla*
01:56:30 <HackEgo> wisdom/disflagrate \ wisdom/flagpole \ wisdom/weetoflake
01:56:30 <boily> `? disflagration
01:56:31 <HackEgo> disflagration? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:56:34 <boily> `? disflagrate
01:56:35 <HackEgo> disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized.
01:57:12 <oren> suru-shinai-shita-shimasu is a little more regular than kuru
01:57:31 <boily> 'night all!
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01:59:24 <oerjan> oren: so that makes 3 irregular verbs?
01:59:37 * oerjan recalls reading once that turkish has only 1
01:59:42 <oerjan> (to be)
02:02:14 <oerjan> "Almost all Turkish verbs are conjugated in the same way, most notable exception being the irregular and defective verb i-, the Turkish copula (corresponding to English to be) [...]"
02:02:29 <oerjan> i guess as usual, exaggerated
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02:06:19 <oren> oerjan: yeah. the three would be kuru, suru, and aru which goes aru-nai-atta-arimasu
02:06:44 <oren> everything else falls into one of two patterns
02:07:18 <ProofTechnique> `? weeotflake
02:07:19 <HackEgo> weeotflake? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:07:23 <ProofTechnique> `? weetoflake
02:07:24 <HackEgo> Weetoflakes are something Taneb invented; they taste sort of purple.
02:07:36 <ProofTechnique> That is satisfactory.
02:08:41 <ProofTechnique> `run ls wisdom/*fal*
02:08:43 <HackEgo> wisdom/false
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02:08:53 <ProofTechnique> `? false
02:08:54 <HackEgo> false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true.
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02:49:57 <oren> how the hell am I suppose to remember which is conjunction and which is disjunction? why can't we call them anding and orring?
02:51:29 <oren> anding normal form is an anding of orrings of literals, where a literal is either an atom or its notting.
02:51:50 <oerjan> notting orrible about that
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02:59:31 <oerjan> hi shachaf!
02:59:54 <shachaf> hi oerjan
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04:42:34 <oerjan> hi edwardk
04:47:36 <edwardk> heya
04:48:10 <shachaf> oerjan: complete coïncidence hth
04:48:25 <oerjan> shachaf: IF YOU SAY SO
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07:06:43 <L8D> is there a channel for discussion around experimental programming language design?
07:06:53 <L8D> or is that this channel?
07:07:14 <L8D> or maybe there's a forum I should go to
07:07:31 <coppro> ostensibly, yes
07:07:37 <coppro> in practice, it's a channel for discussion of anything bug
07:07:40 <coppro> *but
07:07:46 <coppro> but yeah, programming language discussion is welcome
07:08:03 <L8D> so I'm just looking for opinions on this one language I'm designing
07:08:33 <coppro> is it a brainfuck variant?
07:08:40 <L8D> nope
07:08:41 <L8D> http://lpaste.net/127721
07:08:56 <L8D> It's not esoteric in the sense the befunge and brainfuck are
07:09:06 <L8D> which is why I'm curious if this is the right channel
07:09:49 <coppro> is this... defining the values in terms of the functions, rather than the functions in terms of the values?
07:09:55 <myname> imo this is the right channel for anything in theoretical computer science
07:09:58 <L8D> basically, it's a combination of Haskell and an absurd Self dialect
07:10:33 <coppro> yeah this is definitely the right channel for htat
07:10:44 <coppro> myname: I'd love to chat about quantum algorithms sometime
07:10:57 <L8D> coppro: ok so here's the thing
07:11:10 <L8D> there are two types of values
07:11:13 <L8D> functions, and objects
07:11:15 <L8D> f x
07:11:26 <L8D> is f is a function, then it is applying f to x
07:11:30 <L8D> if *
07:11:47 <L8D> if f is an object, then it is calling/retrieving the method x of f
07:12:23 <L8D> at the top-level are namespace declarations
07:12:31 <L8D> well, class declarations
07:13:12 <L8D> a class declaration is just a namespace of functions
07:13:19 <coppro> have you seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
07:13:21 <coppro> ?
07:13:24 <L8D> I have
07:13:38 <L8D> I think I wrote an article in there actually
07:13:46 <L8D> but it was a long time ago, and I was dumb
07:13:56 <L8D> (and for a brainfuck derivative)
07:14:07 <coppro> that's ok, a lot of them are dumb... oh nevermind, you suck
07:14:16 <coppro> :P
07:14:21 <coppro> but seriously, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tarpit
07:14:32 <coppro> who came up with that crap?
07:15:46 <L8D> I'm just here to get some first thoughts on the syntax and general ideas behind the language
07:16:13 <L8D> or any suggestions on good ways to implement it, or where to learn to write a specification for it
07:16:38 <coppro> I'm not so good on the thinking bit
07:17:10 <coppro> implementation side, usually you want to go lexer -> parser -> AST -> semantic analysis -> generation/execution
07:17:18 <L8D> well I know that
07:17:26 <coppro> ah ok, good :)
07:17:36 <coppro> for the grammar, decide what your tokens are, and then write a grammar
07:17:40 <L8D> I've written a few toy-language interpreters in my time
07:17:53 <L8D> I'm also currently writing a parser for this exact code
07:17:59 <coppro> ah, ok
07:18:23 <coppro> I'm not really sure what advice I could offer on implementation then
07:18:37 <L8D> that's ok
07:18:58 <L8D> Also, I need a good name
07:18:59 <coppro> unless you have specific questions
07:19:07 <coppro> how are you on spec writing?
07:19:30 <L8D> I've never written a formal language spec before
07:19:37 <L8D> so I don't know where to start
07:20:22 <coppro> there are a number of approaches. Often a very readable way is to take the grammar, and basically annotate the productions
07:21:39 <coppro> there tends to be a fair bit of boilerplate, like the part where you explain your variant of EBNF
07:24:04 <L8D> on the semantics side of things, I have no idea how I'm going to implement monadic blocks, and how I'm going to solve type ambiguity problems
07:24:20 <coppro> monadic blocks?
07:25:04 <L8D> as in, multi-line blocks of monadic computations
07:25:17 <coppro> like do-blocks?
07:25:19 <L8D> in terms of syntax though
07:25:22 <L8D> yeah do-blocks
07:25:34 <coppro> go the agda route and just allow inventing arbitrary syntax :P
07:25:58 <L8D> well part of the purpose of the language is to have incredibly minimal/simple syntax
07:26:06 <coppro> have you seen agda?
07:26:33 <L8D> I've seen Idris and Haskell, and the only thing I know about agda is that you can use anything as a variable name
07:26:38 <coppro> it's a fascinating example of custom syntax gone horribly wrong.
07:26:45 <coppro> or horribly right, depending on perspective
07:27:09 <coppro> yeah, in agda there are a very small number of reserved characters, and as long as you don't use one, you can write whatever.
07:27:11 <L8D> for example, if statements look like: if some_expr then true_case else false_case
07:27:14 <L8D> BUT
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07:27:25 <coppro> sort of
07:27:30 <L8D> that is because 'if' is the 'id' function (alternate name)
07:27:36 <coppro> the name is actually if_then_else
07:27:38 <coppro> err
07:27:40 <coppro> if_then_else_
07:27:47 <coppro> the underscores represent places for arguments
07:27:50 <L8D> and 'then' is a method on booleans to return maybes
07:28:02 <L8D> and 'else' is a method on maybes to unwrap themselves
07:28:23 <L8D> there's also the 'case' method on booleans for doing this without the extra syntax
07:28:29 <L8D> some_expr if true_case false_case
07:28:35 <L8D> whoops
07:28:35 <coppro> yeah, that's not how it's done
07:28:37 <coppro> see
07:28:39 <coppro> http://wiki.portal.chalmers.se/agda/pmwiki.php?n=ReferenceManual.Mixfix
07:28:43 <L8D> some_expr case true_case false_case
07:28:47 <L8D> no no no
07:28:48 <L8D> dude
07:28:51 <L8D> I'm talking about my language
07:28:53 <shachaf> oerjan: Did they ever take care of the issue with ":i ->" in ghci?
07:28:57 <coppro> L8D: ohhhhh
07:31:07 <L8D> another problem I have
07:31:54 <L8D> since all types are inferred, creating and using monads and custom types will be a problem
07:32:09 <L8D> which is the type ambiguity problem
07:32:21 <coppro> right
07:32:30 <L8D> so there probably will have to be some way of annotating types, but the under-the-hood type system is too crazy
07:33:11 <oerjan> shachaf: um i didn't get any real response so i assume not?
07:33:14 <L8D> to achieve class-less polymorphism I have to denote types as sets of possible methods and their types
07:33:36 <shachaf> oerjan: I'm talking about a different bug I reported a while ago, where :i (->) works and :i -> doesn't.
07:33:41 <oerjan> oh.
07:33:47 <shachaf> Oh, I guess your bug is old, I thought it was from just now.
07:33:56 <shachaf> But it's the patch which is from just now.
07:34:14 <oerjan> it's not that old
07:34:20 <oerjan> a month or so?
07:34:24 <shachaf> 12 days
07:34:48 <oerjan> wait argh
07:35:23 <L8D> I also have no idea how inheritance will work
07:36:22 <oerjan> shachaf: i didn't get it in the mail yet
07:36:38 <shachaf> Oh. I did.
07:36:39 <oerjan> and have been missing Cc: messages from the trac
07:37:29 <oerjan> why isn't that phab thing a link
07:38:23 <oerjan> also int-e has also been missing some, so it's not just my mail
07:38:54 <oerjan> shachaf: wait obviously you don't count, ghc-tickets is working fine.
07:39:09 <oerjan> but i am not subscribing to that, just Cc:ed
07:39:39 <shachaf> It's annoying when that when you subscribe to ghc-tickets, tickets you're Cc:ed on stop reaching you.
07:39:54 <shachaf> Somehow it all gets merged into one. There isn't a way to discriminate even in the headers.
07:40:10 <oerjan> oh well at least the trac allows me to search for what i'm Cc:ed on
07:40:51 <oerjan> except that doesn't _really_ help because the search doesn't have any "last change" column
07:41:46 <oerjan> so where does one report a bug in the trac itself :P
07:43:13 <oerjan> <L8D> to achieve class-less polymorphism I have to denote types as sets of possible methods and their types <-- sounds like ocaml except it has classes too
07:45:08 <oerjan> and iirc some extra hoops you have to go through when using subclasses
07:45:54 <oerjan> oh wait it's a link in the status menu
07:47:26 <shachaf> oerjan: https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/query?status=closed&status=infoneeded&status=merge&status=new&status=patch&status=upstream&cc=~oerjan&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&col=milestone&col=changetime&order=changetime hth
07:47:43 <oerjan> aha
07:47:44 <shachaf> you gotta click on the thing that says columns
07:47:50 <shachaf> i didn't see it at first either
07:51:07 <oerjan> ok all is ... well, not quite as annoying
07:54:08 <shachaf> This Cc: bug must be a conspiracy, since I just look at all the tickets as a result.
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11:15:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42147&oldid=42146 * Keymaker * (+189) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */
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13:09:33 <Sgeo> `olist 978
13:09:34 <HackEgo> olist 978: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
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14:07:12 <ais523> "On behalf of IT, this IT Alert Notification was brought to you by the Help Desk in the Customer Support Department. This is a group email account and its been monitored 24/7, therefore, please do not ignore this notification, because its very compulsory."
14:07:35 <ais523> signed "Admin Service", and copyright to "Microsoft outlook"
14:08:50 <Taneb> :/
14:09:08 <Taneb> Spam?
14:09:45 <ais523> how could it not be spam
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14:17:28 <fizzie> Very compulsory spam,.
14:17:48 -!- adu has joined.
14:32:41 <password2> and even copyrighted
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14:35:32 <int-e> password2: that makes it official.
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14:36:50 <password2> ofc
14:37:53 <Zuu> password2, stop hacking all my accounts and display my secret passwords in public like that!
14:38:02 <Zuu> so annoying
14:38:17 <password2> ok
14:40:19 * Zuu rolls the number on all his passwords, again!
14:43:57 <password2> 3
14:44:25 <Zuu> Argh!
14:47:29 <password2> 12 -i6.28
14:55:05 <FreeFull> Is that 12-itau?
14:55:58 <FreeFull> ais523: If spam was real, everybody would be so rich
14:56:33 <ais523> FreeFull: nah, if spam was real, nobody's email account would work
14:56:41 <ais523> so you wouldn't be able to receive the trillion dollar donations
14:57:22 <Jafet> That is a very complex password
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15:01:49 <password2> FreeFull: yes
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17:31:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:QWERTY Keyboard Dot Language]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42148 * 80.222.241.129 * (+2) Created page with "xd"
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17:50:10 <oren> Which programming languages are usable (by which i mean, by madmen, not necessary regular people) as an OS interface?
17:50:56 <oren> IIRC lisp and forth were used, are there any others
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17:56:00 <b_jonas> oren: what do you mean "an OS interface"?
17:56:09 <b_jonas> do you mean like a shell?
17:56:21 <oren> b_jonas: yeah in the same capacity as a shell
17:56:29 <b_jonas> BASIC definitely then
17:56:35 <b_jonas> in old computers, BASIC was the shell
17:56:43 <oren> Oh right *slaps forhed*
17:57:57 <oren> Perl could work, I wonder if anyone does that
17:58:33 <b_jonas> well, I have a rescue entry in the window manager menu to start a terminal emulator with perl loaded, in case I mess up the shell so much it can't start
17:58:47 <b_jonas> as in, while the computer and X11 and the window manager is already running
17:59:03 <oren> ah
17:59:16 <b_jonas> but you could basically use anything that way, not only perl
17:59:47 <b_jonas> you could use, say, emacs (I don't have one on my machine but you know)
17:59:51 <b_jonas> or vim
18:00:13 <oren> Anything that has the ability to run external programs anyway, certainly
18:00:23 <oren> PHP
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18:00:26 <b_jonas> anyway, some APL and the smalltalk ide were used as shells
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18:00:37 <b_jonas> eww no, not php
18:00:51 <b_jonas> ruby (irb) or python rather
18:01:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42149&oldid=42147 * SuperJedi224 * (+12) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */
18:02:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42150&oldid=42149 * SuperJedi224 * (+96) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */
18:07:45 <Jafet> Madmen? grub2 command line
18:09:55 <elliott> EFI shell
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18:25:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Matrix]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42151&oldid=17326 * 85.250.112.204 * (+0)
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19:31:47 <quintopia> is there some windows program that can tell me which program is opening iexplore in the background?
19:36:47 <b_jonas> quintopia: any program that uses windows's XML parsing library, I hear
19:39:37 <int-e> so meta... http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2015/03/19/0668-deus-ex-machina/
19:40:20 <fizzie> quintopia: I'd look into the Sysinternals stuff.
19:40:38 <fizzie> https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb795533.aspx has some overview list
19:41:11 <fizzie> Process Explorer/Monitor tend to be the most generally useful.
19:43:08 <oren> what would happen if I ran pkill pkill
19:43:25 <oren> would the process commit suicide
19:43:58 <oren> hmm, how would I tell?
19:44:01 <int-e> > killall killall
19:44:01 <int-e> killall: no process found
19:44:02 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘killall’Not in scope: ‘killall’
19:44:12 <int-e> @botsnack
19:44:12 <lambdabot> :)
19:44:47 <oren> pkill is silent, killall returns an error
19:46:39 <int-e> but pkill pkill doesn't attempt to kill itself either. It will kill other running copies of pkill, however.
19:47:17 <int-e> (tested with strace -ekill pkill pkill and gdb for having a stopped pkill around)
19:48:03 <oren> All
19:48:10 <int-e> Your
19:48:20 <oren> Processes
19:48:25 <int-e> Are
19:48:29 <oren> Belong
19:48:33 <int-e> To
19:48:49 <oren> Teh NSA
19:48:52 * int-e is ashamed.
19:49:23 <int-e> (I expected U.S.)
19:49:36 <oren> I wasn't even born when that game came out
19:50:17 <int-e> I was born then, I never played the game. It didn't save me from the meme.
19:50:23 <oren> Quality of translations has gone way up
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19:51:05 <int-e> (The meme was started much later anyway; in 2000/2001, according to Wikipedia)
19:51:32 <oren> Maybe it had to wait until most games had good translation
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19:52:52 <int-e> Nowadays even games that have a bad translation at first are likely to be patched later on. Without broadband internet, patches were really rare.
19:53:27 <b_jonas> zero wings?
19:53:27 <int-e> (Just imagine, software back then had to work out of the box!)
19:54:00 <b_jonas> int-e: well, even then software had bugs and sometimes had newer fixed versions released
19:54:08 <int-e> (Though of course, there were plenty of bugs back then as well.)
19:54:52 <oren> MAIA HIII MAIA HUUU MAIA HAAA MAIA HAHA
19:55:03 <b_jonas> of course only some bugs got fixed, others remained because they didn't impact normal gameplay much, or because they would have been technically difficult to fix with the limited hardware
19:55:51 <oren> b_jonas: Some bugs were awesome, for example the one in pokemon that let you get mew
19:56:25 <b_jonas> get mew? you're not supposed to do that
19:56:35 <b_jonas> what happens if you get mew? can you have it fight?
19:56:42 <oren> Yes
19:56:52 <b_jonas> and which game is that?
19:57:03 <oren> pokemon red/blue
19:57:59 <oren> well that game was full of crazy bugs, basically the item screen can be glitched into modifying arbitrary memory
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20:00:45 <b_jonas> yes, I know
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21:07:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ArrayZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42152&oldid=40653 * GeorgeEpicGen * (-4055) This page is to be deleted
21:08:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42153&oldid=42139 * GeorgeEpicGen * (-13) /* A */
21:08:29 <Jafet> `? the US
21:08:30 <HackEgo> The US is the country opposed to the THEM.
21:08:45 <oren> `? canada
21:08:46 <HackEgo> Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big.
21:08:50 <oren> lol
21:09:34 <oren> You have no chance to survive make your time
21:10:48 <oren> Someone should make a game and translate it that badly into japanese
21:21:32 <oren> Hmm... it's actually hard to make errors in Japanese that don't just sound like colloquial
21:23:43 <oren> But then "what you say" is sort of correct colloquial english
21:24:48 <oren> Which natural language is the most fault-tolerant
21:35:28 <oren> Actually, typewritten japanese is extremely un fault tolerant because of the kanji.
21:50:47 <Vorpal> oren, Well you can probably make yourself at least partially understood in most natural languages when it comes to wording and such. Even if it isn't idiomatic or even correct, there is enough information for a human to guess what was meant
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22:28:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iamevn * New user account
22:42:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42154&oldid=41325 * SuperJedi224 * (+238) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */ new section
22:43:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42155&oldid=42154 * SuperJedi224 * (+13) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */
22:44:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42156&oldid=42155 * SuperJedi224 * (+89) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */
22:44:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42157&oldid=42156 * SuperJedi224 * (+26) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */
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22:46:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42158&oldid=42157 * SuperJedi224 * (+82) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */
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23:25:43 <oerjan> @tell Gregor the logs' time is 3 minutes early hth
23:25:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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23:38:40 <oerjan> <Sgeo> `olist 978 <-- nice title
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23:39:27 <oerjan> (i only recognize the reference because of sheldon's poetry comics)
23:40:14 <oerjan> but i shall presume all americans read it in school, or something
23:41:07 <oerjan> oh or british
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23:47:36 <boily> hellørjan. sheldon?
23:49:22 <shachaf> helløily
23:51:06 <boily> shëllochëllof.
23:51:06 <oerjan> http://www.sheldoncomics.com/
23:51:16 <boily> tdh.
23:52:12 <boily> Emperor of Canada. I dig that.
23:52:17 <oerjan> ywoily
23:52:39 <oerjan> darn i haven't checked it yet today
23:53:03 <oerjan> oh no new one
23:53:08 <oerjan> it's a bit erratic
23:57:12 <boily> “Type, Duck”. I really hope it's not some horrible stealth pun.
23:57:28 <oerjan> um when was that
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