00:00:26 "MD5 takes an arbitrary string of characters, passes it through a deterministic blender and produces an unnecessarily long 128-bit value." 00:11:29 Unnecessarily long? 00:12:42 Yes. MD5/4 compresses it into 32 bits 00:13:18 FreeFull: it might help to know that the proceedings are dated April 1st 2015. 00:13:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:13:46 int-e: Hmm, so they're from the future 00:14:00 But not for long :) 00:14:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:15:04 "Or, more likely, you're looking at them on a screen because you're too cheap to actually buy the proceedings." They know me so well. 00:15:13 I wonder if that's on the paper copy at all. 00:15:18 int-e: I wasn't looking at the proceedings, and that sentence is mostly accurate 00:15:23 -!- clog has joined. 00:15:50 fizzie: Oh jeez, the last page is filled with lots of tiny text 00:16:07 FreeFull: At the same time, no self-respecting cryptographer would write that in a scientific publication. 00:17:43 "the solid foundation of the MD5/4 cryptographic hash function" 00:18:20 "the RSA public key cryptosystem signing procedure [10] with a key length of 32 bits" 00:18:25 wait, so 96 of the bits are not needed? 00:18:35 Heh 00:19:02 FreeFull: wait until you get to the footnote explaining why 2048 is a more popular choice 00:19:27 I'll read this in-depth later 00:20:04 "Copyright © 2015 The Association of Computational Heresy, your leading source for cutting-edge research on Science, Computational Archaeolinguistics, and Artificial Stupidity. " 00:20:54 owie. "Kaliningrad, Russia (colloq.); better known in the Formal Literature as Königsberg, Prussia... 00:20:57 " 00:21:26 Oh, they aren't saying that 96 of the bits can be deduced from 32, they're just saying THEY only need 32 bits 00:22:39 wait is this entire thing an elaborate joke or not? 00:23:24 it's a valid cryptographic operation, assuming your attacker doesn't have access to modern (post 1960?) computers. 00:23:42 orin: you're catching on fast 00:23:57 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:24:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:24:11 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:24:29 Unfortunaely in the internet age it is hard to tell whether anything is a joke 00:26:20 If the website is to be believed, it's "joke realizations of joke ideaas", "joke realizations of serious ideas", and "serious realizations of joke ideas", all of which /joke/. 00:27:59 that's a similar set as this channel, isn't it? 00:28:03 at least when it's ontopic? 00:30:47 Yes, although this channel also has the "related to programming languages" bit set. 00:31:06 Allegedly, anyway. 00:31:20 Yes, I suppose is mostly the topic anyways 00:32:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:37:27 `danddreclist 64 00:37:28 danddreclist 64: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 00:46:35 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 00:47:03 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:48:19 ancient greeks, including Aristotle and a mortal man [1] named Socrates. 00:48:43 What is that about the Greeks? 00:49:40 zzo38: it's a sentence from the artivle on "artisanal type theory" 00:49:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:02:05 My RDF namespace now has 19 leaf nodes defined. 01:08:30 "By he way, the images are always 256x256, because numbers that are a power of two are faster.²" "²This is true on computers, because computers count in binary. In the human eye, powers of ten are faster, because humans have ten fingers." 01:08:34 the* 01:09:35 that is one of those statements that's /just/ accurate enough that you can't outright call it false, while nonetheless being completely misleading 01:12:10 Eyes aren't fingers though, isn't it? 01:12:16 indeed 01:13:20 [wiki] [[Batch file]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42237 * Esowiki201529A * (+76) Created page with "== examples == === Hello, World ===
 @echo off echo Hello, World 
" 01:14:13 [wiki] [[Batch file]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42238&oldid=42237 * Esowiki201529A * (+24) 01:14:36 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:14:38 god damn it these earbuds have too much bass 01:14:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:15:42 I _knew_ I should have bought cheaper ones 01:20:04 [wiki] [[Batch file]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42239&oldid=42238 * Esowiki201529A * (+6) 01:20:54 Why is PDJSON larger than my RDF Turtle parser when both are compiled with -s -O2 options? 01:23:14 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:24:59 Isn't RDF Turtle more complicated than JSON? 01:26:08 How does the error handling compare in each piece of code? 01:27:54 I don't know; maybe you should look. Although, both do check for several errors (there are probably more errors to check for in RDF). 01:28:14 Maybe you can look though, and see if that help 01:31:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:36:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:37:20 Hmm... maybe it's strerror? 01:38:30 which would implicitly include a bunch of strings, most of which are never used, 01:39:35 O, maybe 01:39:58 ^rerere loop unrolling 01:40:37 fungot: aww 01:40:37 int-e: fnord by pikhq already exists and doesn't require tcness from that. therefore, a language with card decks. yarr. 01:46:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:46:50 No, strerror is linked externally; the compiled DLL doesn't include all of those strings 01:46:56 I checked 01:47:29 Despite that, sqlext_pdjson.dll is 46K and sqlext_turtle.dll is 22K 01:54:19 PDJSON does have smaller source-codes though. 02:02:47 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:05:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:06:09 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:06:27 -!- ^v has joined. 02:09:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:12:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:14:32 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 02:27:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:33:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:39:26 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:34:40 -!- vodkode has joined. 03:38:55 -!- adu has joined. 03:47:16 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:53:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:58:10 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:16:10 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:59:40 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:29:30 https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/30hk3l/github_may_be_inaccessible_today_due_to_a_ddos/ 05:29:32 Gotta love JSONP 05:40:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:42:43 Given that other people are pointing out the obvious right way to fix the DDoS attack, is it that bad if I mention it too? 05:42:55 The first few things I said I avoided mentioning it, but now I haven't 05:43:11 But it's an obvious thing... but apparently not obvious to the Chinese gov 05:45:55 someone's ddos'ing china? 05:46:43 China is attempting to DDoS GitHub 05:47:00 By causing sites using Baidu analytics to make JSONP requests to GitHub 05:47:15 *to cause users to make etc 05:47:25 GitHub responded by making that URL return an alert() 06:08:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:08:37 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:08:48 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:34:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:34:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:37:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:37:14 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:37:21 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:44:29 god damn it these earbuds have too much bass <-- bass are inferior to babel fishes, anyhow 06:46:26 btw i suggest featuring Esme for april 1, on the reasoning that it will likely greatly speed up the next feature. 06:50:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:50:23 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:50:48 If the new version of CLC-INTERCAL is released on April 1, then should you feature the new version of CLC-INTERCAL on April 1? 06:51:59 But Esme is better as a 'this should not be featured' language being featured 06:52:42 I wouldn't recommend featuring Esme 06:52:45 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:53:21 If VeeBeeWiki needs Esme to run, maybe there would be hints of what the language is actually supposed to be 06:54:46 Except only link apparently was dead 07:01:13 I looked on a TV guide and on the guide in the cable box with DVR to figure out when the show is on, and then I went into the basement to record it on the VCR; are you going to call it strange if I do such thing? 07:02:50 -!- zadock has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:02:54 Slightly strange that you'd use VCR if a DVR is present, also wondering why you needed to check two sources 07:03:09 videotapes aren't used anymore in Canada, but they are used a lot in Japan, so it' relative 07:05:26 Anyway DVR can have limitations as to getting the data off the DVR 07:06:26 As it turns out they connected it to an input on the DVD recorder on the main floor, so that is one way to copy it I suppose 07:06:52 Although someone else is using the DVR and that TV set so I don't want to fill up the disk space or to interfere with their TV shows 07:07:39 The reason I checked two sources is that the TV guide doesn't list shows on at 3AM 07:08:00 it's 3AM now 07:08:41 Not in my timezone 07:18:40 oerjan: agreed re: esme 07:18:46 not even ironically 07:18:49 I mean 07:18:50 yes ironically 07:18:52 but not on that level 07:32:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:42:14 OKAY 07:42:59 the haskell wiki is so broken i cannot even view diffs :( 07:43:32 the fact no one else has seemingly noticed doesn't bode well. 07:43:44 because it means no one is checking edits. 07:44:10 #haskell-infrastructure hth 07:45:02 ok 07:50:59 i,i hats that help 07:56:29 i'm sure it did, just look at the response 07:57:40 it's p. late in haskellland 08:01:48 pesky western hemisphere 08:39:37 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:54:43 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:21:30 -!- zadock has joined. 09:38:39 struct mytest A = {3,5.6,"World",0}; 09:38:42 struct mytest B = {5,3.1415,"Hello",&A}; 09:38:45 prin7f("{%d,%f,%s,%R}",&B); 09:39:11 output is: {5,3.141500,Hello,{3,5.600000,World,}} 09:39:17 muhuhahahaha 09:40:28 charming 09:41:53 the prin7f family of functions works sort of like the printf family, except they take their data out of a given buffer instead of from dynamically typed arguments 09:42:37 The %R specifier recurses into a pointer with the same format 09:44:14 must it be the whole format? otherwise it seems a bit limited. 09:44:57 clearly we need the full power of BNF here 09:45:09 Hmmm.... 09:46:29 solution: make the first argument a struct also >:) 09:46:59 ...might be a bit tricky. 09:47:22 Well, I'm just covering onw of the most common cases. Full BNF would use an array of formats that can refer to each other with "%{N}" 09:48:58 or something 09:50:21 Of course, I'd have to write code to detect looped pointers.... ugh 09:51:08 wait, I already need that 09:55:26 `olist 979 09:55:27 olist 979: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 09:55:48 ooh, list 09:56:23 huh my FB page hasn't said anything yet 09:57:59 ol' ist 10:01:04 Sgeo_ can just take your trademark like that? 10:01:15 next it'll have to be ølist 10:02:28 øl, øl, og mere øl 10:07:17 https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Cyclic_Tag_System 10:08:39 Jafet: oh wow 10:09:34 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:11:03 (The guilty party seems to be http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/27/High%20Performance%20SQL%20with%20PostgreSQL%20Presentation.pdf) 10:14:48 https://gist.github.com/orenwatson/985cdf4a945ee80f756d 10:19:20 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:20:44 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:38:53 -!- vodkode has joined. 10:53:00 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:53:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:58:23 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 10:59:36 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:02:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:09:23 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:15:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:19:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: More nagging later). 11:28:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:31:51 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:37:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:37:55 -!- boily has joined. 12:34:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:35:58 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:51:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:53:41 -!- nys has joined. 13:25:14 @metar CYUL 13:25:15 CYUL 281300Z 35011KT 30SM FEW090 FEW240 M09/M17 A3006 RMK AC1CI1 AC TR CI TR SLP181 13:25:50 minus fungotting nine. and it was snowing yesterday... 13:25:50 boily: and diamondie; if they'd still age at this speed and stayed in bed the last 100 years, i'd say. 13:26:30 fungot: I wouldn't mind cats or dogs or diamondies pouring down. as long as it isn't any more snow. 13:26:31 boily: also pushing should be fnord?? weirdo! set-car! set-cdr! are functions, but f takes as an argument 13:27:04 fungot: it's not weird, it's common sense. you push and shovel and hurl the snow away. 13:27:04 boily: tell me what " fnord" is longer than 13:27:15 fungot: fnord is longer than snow. 13:27:15 boily: anyone here familiar with dr scheme? fnord! 13:27:27 fungot: perhaps. I think racket's more popular nowadays. 13:33:05 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:33:31 -!- ^v has joined. 13:33:41 @metar uh what was that code again 13:33:45 @metar EGLL 13:33:46 EGLL 281320Z 23017KT 9999 OVC013 13/09 Q1010 TEMPO SCT012 BKN016 13:41:58 -!- jameseb has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 13:41:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 13:57:28 fizzie: do you know why fungot forgot about ^rerere and ^rreree? 13:57:28 int-e: i just want to dump the fnord leaves. 13:57:42 fungot: brilliant excuse 13:57:42 int-e: in your file makes it instantly clear. chopping it into at least two other links that don't work 13:59:12 or perhaps a better question is, does fungot support remembering defined commands over restarts? 13:59:12 int-e: that's a zip file stored in a hash-table? what's wrong with it just pointing out that a lot 14:00:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:01:33 a zip file in a hash table seems a bit cumbersome for befunge processing 14:02:29 you're underestimating fungot's prowesses. 14:02:30 boily: i'm afraid i haven't read it yet. also, saying the f word more than once ( per invocation). 14:02:54 fungot: I wouldn't know. I'm seriously lacking in the f-word department. 14:02:55 boily: which is good. ( well, it seems... 14:03:01 fungot: it is. 14:03:02 boily: and merging is great!" and was curious if scheme code were parsed textually, you'd never know what you'll find over the rainbow"? x_x 14:05:11 graphical parsing of scheme sounds very cumbersome, fungot 14:05:11 FireFly: it's unnecessary, especially if one restricts it to working stuff and marks them appropriately) 14:05:20 fungot: why indeed 14:05:21 FireFly: in c. " fnord"? when i load it?' and how will that help me tracing the prog? hardly 14:06:52 int-e: Nobody ^saved? 14:15:00 there's a ^save? 14:15:28 fizzie: quite possibly. 14:17:00 ^def rreree bf ,..>,[.<.>.>,]<. 14:17:00 Defined. 14:17:11 ^def rerere bf ,.>,.<.>>,[.<.<.>>>,]<.<.>. 14:17:11 Defined. 14:17:13 ^save 14:17:31 (am I even allowed to do that?) 14:19:23 ŝave 14:19:26 hm. 14:19:29 ^save 14:19:38 revive keys! 14:19:58 my keys are dead and I like it that way. 14:20:28 * boily is a certified necrokeyboardomancer :D 14:26:16 int-e: I don't think it works for anyone but fizzie to ^save? 14:31:02 -!- zadock has joined. 14:53:05 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:02:26 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:04:49 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:09:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:24:27 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:12:31 -!- vodkode has joined. 16:15:00 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:17:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:19:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:29:08 ^save 16:29:08 OK. 16:29:20 Yes, it's one of these restricted ones. 16:35:28 ^unrestrict 16:35:52 fungot: please, unrestrict yourself. it's for the Greater Good® 16:35:52 boily: i'm getting rather tired of incessant divergence from the topic has the url :) :) 3 :) 16:36:02 fungot: bleh to you too! 16:36:02 boily: it's put onto amb-fail. 16:44:04 ooh, fungot 16:44:04 olsner: it was some other programming language, it's just too difficult in a statically typed macro system from a large variety of broken keymaps 16:59:09 -!- vodkode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:11:56 fungot: I could see that, yes 17:11:56 FireFly: well at least it will be a variable name is really call-with-current-continuation. amb is somewhat more roundabout than i thought 17:19:32 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:24:32 https://github.com/rntz/rotten#rotten 17:24:40 lisp compiler that compiles in a backdoor 17:24:52 when self compiling 17:31:57 newsham: you know "reflections on trusting trust", right? http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html 17:34:03 Oh, it's the first thing mentioned in the readme.md, I should've clicked the link before answering 17:38:35 inte: nevah hoid of it! 17:38:42 inte: you know about diverse double compilation, right? 17:38:52 yes 17:45:52 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:03:32 Indeed, lisp is a poor attack vector for this because we know that every lisp hacker can make their own implementation of lisp 18:04:26 (Large defense surface?) 18:06:03 fungot, is lisp a poor attack vector? 18:06:03 b_jonas: seriously i mean da scm monster. water walker. 18:06:25 fungot, have you tried to make your own dialect of lisp yet? 18:06:25 b_jonas: forget your religion is i am an image artist" fnord, i'm sorry, but i can't make 18:06:36 from that parenthesis stuff you mentioned a few days ago I thought you would 18:07:17 -!- Nokaji has joined. 18:13:10 do you guys know suckless? 18:15:52 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 18:17:21 of course 18:18:00 good, because i need to rant 18:18:04 THEIR NAME IS WRONG 18:18:08 THEIR STUFF SUCKS 18:18:24 THEY WROTE LIBUTF AND THEIR SED BREAKS UTF8 18:18:26 WTF 18:18:29 ok /rant 18:20:46 -!- lambdabot has joined. 18:35:53 fungot: does suckless suck less? 18:35:54 FireFly: ' these people's c is horrible' for ' binary', though. i rather enjoy sounding the opinions of other schemers, but if they used python or scheme or cl 18:36:11 I think fungot agrees with you, izabera 18:36:11 FireFly: i suppose doom iii on geforce 4 under the hurd might be an example of upwards only continuations. 18:36:22 uh. I don't think so 18:37:12 izabera: maybe (turning an old joke about MS around) they tried to write firmware for a vacuum cleaner... 18:51:48 orin: you'll need to handle padding 18:55:22 What is that? How does their sed breaks UTF-8? 18:56:08 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:58:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:00:41 izabera: the suckless people rarely seem to bother being consistent in their philosophy... 19:01:11 the Unicode support thing seems like kind of an outlier to me. I have a feeling that if Plan 9 didn't have such a focus on it, they'd consider it unnecessary bloat :p 19:08:36 If you want to add Unicode support into sed and stuff that using regular expression, is easy to do, is make up a regex modifier flag to enable UTF-8 in which case when it read the byte 0xC0-0xFF then read however many next bytes 0x80-0xBF are considered as part of the same character. Nothing else needs to be done, and now you can even turn it off by just not specifying this flag. 19:08:59 You shouldn't try to add in everything else like character classes and so on 19:10:52 the meaning of [a-ä] is very different with and without the flag; you cannot encode the resulting unicode range conveniently in a 256 bit array. 19:13:10 That is true, but, such ranges are not likely what you would want anyways, whether or not the flag is set. 19:13:35 (I have a DFA based regex engine around that uses arrays of size 256 for transitions.) 19:13:57 (It would be ... interesting ... to try to make it work with utf-8) 19:14:54 You should instead use multiple ranges together if you really want to include both accented and unaccented letters in the same range like that. 19:16:40 int-e: Ah, well I suppose it may be possible to compile UTF-8-based regular expressions into byte-based regular expressions, like I explained how to compile the dot, for example 19:17:02 right. 19:17:47 I guess negating ranges is the tricky bit. 19:29:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:29:46 I had an issue a while ago where a sed script worked differently depending on the locale, due to character ranges 19:30:30 it even happened when I used escapes. You'd think [\x30-\x3f] would unambiguously match the set of bytes 0x30..0x3f, but apparently it doesn't 19:30:40 collating is the worst idea ever. 19:31:30 it's almost like bolting unicode on in a kind of ad-hoc manner after the fact doesn't go to well :p 19:31:34 No, [a-z] should not include B-Y and one of A or Z (I forgot which one), oh and äöüÄÖÜ while we're at it) 19:33:02 character ranges just seem like a fundamentally poor idea for unicode to me... 19:37:36 sorry i had to go 19:37:38 $ suckless sed 's/[à]/x/' <<< è 19:37:41 x¨ 19:37:46 this is... broken 19:37:50 That's stupid it shouldn't use Unicode such thing 19:38:11 It shouldn't use the locale 19:40:33 In byte mode it should match all bytes in range, in UTF-8 mode it should match all sequences of bytes corresponding to the shortest UTF-8 encoding of the codepoints in the given range. 19:41:08 zzo38: what do you mean with stupid? my example or their sed's behaviour? 19:41:30 because it obviously should use unicode imho 19:41:50 No it shouldn't use Unicode, unless you set a flag to tell it to do so 19:42:12 ??? why does that make any sense? the flag should be always active 19:42:37 No it shouldn't, you should use single byte encodings by default (the program doesn't have to care which) 19:42:49 it's 2015 19:43:09 not for zzo it isn't 19:43:22 The alternative is to provide a flag to turn it off instead 19:43:39 your reasoning is maybe valid in a 1975 background 19:43:56 `` LC_CTYPE=C sed 's/[à]/x/' <<< è 19:44:12 x 19:44:23 `` sed 's/[à]/x/' <<< è 19:44:25 ​è 19:44:50 yay gnu 19:45:20 Excellent 19:45:22 `` locale 19:45:23 LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ 19:45:38 New zealand? whatever floats your boat 19:45:44 But I think it shouldn't use the locale, instead add a regex flag after the / to tell it to use UTF-8, if you don't specify then it doesn't, and either way doens't care about what language or anything like that 19:46:06 did you happen to read the posix standard 19:46:28 Now you have to add another shortcut that will change the locale to C when executing the command 19:47:17 In UNIX systems I have access to I had to even change the locale to C in my login scripts, since they did it bad too 19:47:27 technically unicode did not exist in 1975 :p 19:48:13 some parts of the locale system *do* seem to mess things up more than they help, but... that's unix for you 19:48:32 you mean [a-z] matching X ? 19:48:41 that's what [[:lower:]] is for 19:48:51 I think [a-z] is kind of unreasonable to start with. 19:49:04 I still think [a-z] matching X is stupid unless case-insensitive mode is selected 19:49:17 By default it shouldn't do that 19:49:19 (but I do admit that I have no idea how to reliably match "ASCII characters a to z". what if you're grepping for some programming language's syntax?) 19:49:43 I find, e.g. locale-based ordering annoying in "ls". it messes up SHOUTYFILES coming first, iirc 19:50:02 LC_CTYPE=C [a-z] 19:50:21 well, that's the other thing 19:50:27 (if [a-z[ in the C locale matches X yell at your vendor) 19:50:42 sadly unix is a mess and a whole bunch of software is never going to make sure the locale is right for what it does in its scripts or whatever 19:50:54 I agree it is stupid, I want to force the locale to be C which is why I set up the login script to force the locale to C 19:50:55 I hate almost everything about locales, but I do have LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (why the en_US?) set. 19:51:22 int-e: I too, but I prefer to set it to C instead of en_US.UTF-8 19:51:25 (I do like localised software, and I do think all software should handle Unicode, no excuses.) 19:51:29 The C/Unix locale system isn't *that* bad, but very few people understand it well. 19:51:34 (I just think the Unix locale system is about as much of a mess as Unix itself.) 19:51:45 elliott: You'd like musl's locale approach. 19:51:59 "Unicode is the only supported charset". 19:52:08 (Actually I hate localised error messages, because I have to read them, rather than recognize them by pattern matching.) 19:52:09 does musl even support locales to the point of letting you get error messages in your language from ls or whatever? 19:52:13 Yes. 19:52:20 I disagree; only documentation and GUIs should be localised. 19:52:40 Nobody's bothered doing much localization, but there's locale infrastructure in place just fine. 19:52:41 I know you disagree with almost everything I say >_> 19:52:44 And, not all software needs to handle Unicode; it depends on the software. 19:52:57 elliott: you're wrong! 19:53:06 Most software probably shouldn't need to handle Unicode. 19:53:14 I think there's a couple omissions? 19:53:24 ... Oh *right*, it doesn't support localized collation. 19:54:00 we should all go back to the original Emacs-on-TECO ported to TOPS-20, imo, argument over 19:54:04 [a-z] matching X if /i is given is reasonable to me 19:54:21 oh nice TECO even ran on TOPS-20! 19:54:26 without /i any range should match exactly that range of bytes IMO 19:54:30 And (not exactly the same thing as locales, but somewhat relevant to some localized users) musl's iconv doesn't support *extensions* to its charset support ATM. 19:54:55 Making the sort command to support user-defined collation sequences (independent of chaacter set) seem reasonable to me; most other programs don't need to, but there are some such as SQLite that you can add extensions for user-defined collation sequences already too. 19:55:01 izabera: I apologise for any part i had in starting this argument -_- 19:55:10 lol 19:55:56 Which means you're going to have some issues if the legacy charset for your languange is not sufficiently common to have been implemented in iconv. 19:58:08 SQLite has no SQL commands to implement collation sequences, but you can write them in C and then load them using the LOAD_EXTENSION function in SQL. 19:58:42 So, SOL if it's not: UTF-8, UCS2, UTF-16, UTF-32, ASCII, EUC-JP, Shift-JIS, GB18030, GBK, GB2312, Big5, EUC-KR, ISO-8859*, or one of the more popular Windows code pages. 19:59:37 what about EBCDIC? 19:59:51 -!- Nokaji has left. 20:00:18 Nope. 20:00:18 (IBM's proprietary encryption) 20:01:27 (fuck EBCDIC) 20:02:49 EBCDIC isn't very good; ASCII is better. 20:03:23 I usually use ASCII when possible though rather than any other characters sets; most are compatible with ASCII though, so won't be much problem 20:04:32 Ah, from Wikipedia: Professor: "So the American government went to IBM to come up with an encryption standard, and they came up with—" Student: "EBCDIC!" 20:10:36 Is using cookies on GitHub Pages actually -safe-? 20:11:00 github.io is on the public suffix list 20:11:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:14:10 Sgeo_: "safe"? 20:14:46 As in, if I run a.github.io and use cookies for stuff, what chance does evil.github.io have of breaking stuff 20:16:25 The VCR I have has no zero-return function. You can reset the counter to zero, but doesn't have the mode to automatically fast-forward/rewind until reaching zero and then stop. 20:16:37 it's a matter of setting the cookie's domain and path, isn't it? 20:17:52 What if evil overrides a cookie that a is using? 20:18:05 But public suffix list entry for github.io should block that I think 20:18:09 For browsers that use that list 20:18:16 Fuck cookies for needing a list like that 20:20:12 Sgeo_: evil.github.io should not be able to set a cookie for a.github.io 20:20:13 Just mention on your webpage to add such an entry to the list 20:21:13 (nor should the browser send a cookie for a.github.io in requests to evil.github.io) 20:22:13 Another thing you can use the client's IP address for additional security measures 20:24:01 Sgeo_: I'd assume that the purpose of the "public suffix list" is that websites cannot set cookies with such suffixes; i.e. evil.github.io cannot set a cookie for the domain .github.io, which would then be sent along with all requests to github.io websites. 20:24:12 int-e: right 20:24:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MURAL CHICKEN). 20:24:25 so I'm unsure what you're worried about here. 20:25:21 Browsers that don't use the Public Suffix List? 20:25:43 int-e: no 20:25:46 the cookies would still be for the wrong domains. 20:26:08 int-e: the cookies contain the domains, so the servers can just ignore such cookies 20:26:24 b_jonas: yes. 20:26:26 A user-defined public suffix list is probably a better idea, although you can still provide lists of default values too 20:26:36 you don't need to guess what the public suffix list is for: https://publicsuffix.org/ 20:26:40 it says right there 20:26:51 int-e: the goal of the public suffix list is to prevent a DOS attack and possibly information leakage where a website would make your browser send a dozen large cookies to every site with a *.com domain 20:26:55 I think 20:27:23 you could never set cookies for *.com, anyway 20:27:43 elliott: "Avoid privacy-damaging "supercookies" being set for high-level domain name suffixes " is what I was thinking about 20:27:48 right 20:28:14 yep 20:28:19 b_jonas: I'm not sure what exactly I wrote that you think is wrong. 20:30:13 (Except that I didn't consider the DoS angle of attack.) 20:31:14 int-e: sorry, nothing, it's fine 20:31:18 you wrote the right thing 20:31:35 -!- adu has joined. 20:33:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:33:35 -!- pdxleif has joined. 21:04:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:05:09 -!- Albert_ has joined. 21:11:57 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:18:30 -!- Albert_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:22:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:28:17 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:18 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:18 -!- mitchs has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:19 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:19 -!- ineiros_ has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:19 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:21 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:30 -!- mitchs has joined. 21:28:32 -!- b_jonas has joined. 21:28:32 -!- ineiros has joined. 21:28:51 -!- EgoBot has joined. 21:28:52 -!- tromp has joined. 21:33:56 -!- olsner has joined. 21:38:12 Do you have Family Channel on your television? 21:39:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:39:20 sigh ... how do I quote an @foo on github so it doesn't get treated as an @mention thing, but gets displayed as ordinary text? 21:39:40 I don't know? 21:39:53 `@foo` disables the @mention but adds some markup... 21:39:54 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: @foo`: not found 21:43:35 * int-e tries #github... sorry. 21:43:38 int-e: Does \@foo not do that? 21:44:07 Melvar: unfortunately, no. The \ is displayed, and the @foo is treated as before. 21:44:25 That is quite broken. 21:44:45 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:45:59 (I keep running into this because @ is lambdabot's command prefix. Using `` for it is okay-ish, but not what I want.) 21:54:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:00:39 int-e: Maybe @⁢foo? 22:14:09 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:15:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:17:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:21:31 wow, #github is dead. 22:52:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:00:35 -!- adu has joined. 23:01:52 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:52 @tell boily fungot: I wouldn't mind cats or dogs or diamondies pouring down. as long as it isn't any more snow. <-- i suspect diamondies would be even harder on the car drivers. btw oslo was also unexpectedly hit by snow yesterday, complete chaos at the traditional start of easter vacation week. 23:27:52 Consider it noted. 23:27:52 oerjan: slime for scheme48: http://paste.lisp.org/ list 23:27:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:28:16 fungot: i already have more slime in my life than i need, thank you very much. 23:28:16 oerjan: it wasn't a dream). 23:28:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:28:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:28:49 -!- yorick has joined. 23:29:47 -!- scott has joined. 23:30:09 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:31:55 fungot: eww 23:31:55 int-e: no not fnord :p.) appears to be writing about the implementation. 23:32:24 -!- yorick has joined. 23:32:24 -!- yorick has quit (Changing host). 23:32:24 -!- yorick has joined. 23:35:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:46:35 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:47:54 fizzie: putting an ⁠ after the @ "works". 23:48:04 `unidecode @⁠foo 23:48:07 ​[U+0040 COMMERCIAL AT] [U+2060 WORD JOINER] [U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] 23:48:25 But may confuse people wanting to cut&paste. Oh well. 23:48:53 int-e: hey, i also use en_us.utf-8 for essentially the same reason. 23:49:16 I use en_GB.UTF-8 because why not