00:00:28 I'm surprised that lists aren't self-dual 00:00:41 although, the list comonad is for /nonempty/ lists specifically 00:01:25 (that actually came up at work, someone was presenting some heavily comonad-based research, and some of the people there didn't know what the list comonad was) 00:01:37 I don't think "colist" is dual in the usual sense. 00:01:55 It's the greatest fixed point vs. the list fixed point of some functor. 00:04:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:04:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:04:29 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:05:43 shachaf: Ok, I think I've got it. The final F-coalgebra is cofree over an empty set of cogenerators, so applying the term is awkward, because usually the cogenerator object is not fixed like that. 00:06:58 I'm not sure what you mean. 00:07:09 shachaf: In contrast to the cofree comonad, there is also less structure: The cofree comonad has an F-coalgebra, and furthermore the comonad signature, with extract mapping to the cogenerators. 00:09:23 What are cogenerators? Why is it an empty rather than a singleton set of them? I think I'm missing something. 00:09:57 In Cofree f a, a are cogenerators. 00:10:12 "Cofree" is the cofree comonad? 00:10:19 Oh it must be a singleton. 00:10:21 shachaf: yes, 00:11:03 OK, I guess there are at least two different ways of getting the cofree comonad, as a cofree f-coalgebra and as a cofree comonoid in the category of endofunctors. 00:11:03 Too much dualizing. I'd rather discuss free/initial things... 00:11:30 OK, free/initial things are fine. 00:11:43 In which case it's the empty set. 00:11:47 shachaf: the final f-coalgebra does not have the comonad structure. that's what I was trying to get art. 00:11:50 *at 00:12:20 Right, I thought that's what I was getting at too. 00:12:29 In what sense is it cofree? 00:13:11 OK, I think I see what you mean. 00:14:14 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:14:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:14:24 In that if you fix the cogenerators to be a final object (different category, and awkward, as said above), you get the additional arrows to the cogenerator objects that the cofree definition has for ... uhm ... free. 00:14:32 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:14:45 s/objects/object/ 00:15:47 So, to summarize, I should just say 'final' or 'terminal' or whichever, not 'cofree', to avoid confusion. 00:16:09 I dunno, pretty much every term in maths means like ten different things by now 00:16:26 terminology like "terminal" isn't so useful without knowing what category you're talking about 00:16:52 (in the sort of categories I work with, the final object is normally the unit data type, e.g. () in Haskell or Ocaml) 00:17:36 i,i in the category of this airport, this object is initial terminal 00:17:38 the 00:18:32 hmm, if the same object is both initial and terminal 00:18:46 what restrictions does that put on the category 00:19:09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_object 00:19:47 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:19:51 Hmm, I thought that article said more about it. 00:21:28 int-e: https://www.fpcomplete.com/user/dolio/many-roads-to-free-monads 00:21:42 "One final aside is that there is a well known theorem that "left adjoints preserve colimits" (and right adjoints, limits). Free F is a left adjoint, so it will take an initial object 0 to the initial F-algebra." 00:21:52 I remember talking to dolio about this. 00:22:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:22:39 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:25:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:25:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:39:08 -!- Decim has joined. 00:39:58 The fires of hell will eclipse your soul and drag you into the void of despair as you watch all happiness that you cling to fade away 00:40:07 Idk what I'm talking about 00:40:28 I don't know who you're talking to 00:40:32 but that's not a very nice introduction, really 00:40:38 `welcome Decim 00:40:49 HackEgo: you're being slow today 00:40:52 `welcome Decim 00:40:55 Actually 00:41:00 Decim: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:41:00 Decim: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:41:03 there we go 00:41:23 Don't welcome me because I've litterally been welcomed on every single one of my clients for 5 months 00:41:38 well, if we don't know who you are 00:41:42 you're going to be welcomed a lot 00:41:50 but I did it in black and white this time, for a change 00:41:59 Oh people know who I am 00:42:13 shachaf: ah. 00:42:39 Everything is black and white because of the default filter on Andchat 00:43:23 ais523: it was obvious to me who it was after the first two lines hth 00:43:42 oerjan: well you're paying more attention than I am 00:43:45 although, it clearly isn't me or you 00:43:49 so that's a start 00:44:49 oerjan stop spotting me out, I'm not trying to hide behind nicks I don't even have a vpn 00:45:15 normally you can tell who the regulars here are by the writing style 00:45:18 I just like these cooool names whilst I'm programming stuff 00:45:30 ais523: I believe that's what oerjan did 00:45:41 e.g. do lines start with a capital letter, do they end with a full stop, do nickpings use a comma or colon, do they use "hth" a lot 00:45:46 i just usemyreal name 00:45:56 oren? 00:45:56 FireFly: also the nick, really. 00:46:09 My real name is reallllly long 00:46:12 Yeah, my real name is oren 00:46:18 oh, I didn't realise Oren was a name 00:46:23 Now I know 00:46:30 it is normally spelled orin 00:46:38 mine is weird 00:47:07 I would use my real name, but someone registered it 12 years ago 00:47:18 (okay, I wouldn't use it either way) 00:47:20 So I don't use it as a nick as most irc clients can't parse 29 letter names 00:47:44 -!- oren has changed nick to OrenWatson. 00:47:52 sigh 00:47:53 -!- shachaf has left. 00:48:00 there, my full name apparently fits 00:48:47 Hallo shachaf 00:48:47 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:49:02 i think shachaf got fed up again 00:49:16 How do you your name oerjan 00:49:29 I can't Ø 00:49:42 Pronounce* 00:50:01 straight forward hth 00:51:10 I thought ø was an "aw" sound (like in "forward", which is why oerjan used that word)? 00:51:22 wat 00:51:32 it's a fronted rounded vowel 00:52:07 hmm 00:52:11 maybe I'm thinking of a different letter 00:52:29 Is it Or-Jan 00:52:39 the j is a y 00:52:46 i'm just joking about it being the obvious pronunciation of each letter in norwegian 00:52:57 So I was pronouncing it correctly 00:53:34 the j is essentially an english y yes 00:53:44 * int-e wonders how different Ø is from Ö. 00:53:55 I mentally pronounce your name as though it were English 00:54:08 although we don't get a lot of "oer" in English, "ur" is close enough for mental pronunciation 00:54:21 because the purpose of a mental pronunciation is mostly to be able to type things correctly 00:54:23 How do you pronounce œ then? 00:54:25 int-e: more tense i think 00:54:27 (I type by sound for some reason) 00:54:33 assuming you mean the german 00:54:40 I do. 00:54:52 and more pouted lips 00:55:05 oerjan: and you mean the Ö? 00:55:10 yes 00:55:20 i mean 00:55:28 the norwegian is more tense and pouted 00:55:40 Pronouncing oerjans name in Enochian is quite trouble some 00:55:45 iirc 00:56:04 the n is also pretty close to normal for english 00:56:30 the a is short but otherwise close to a in father 00:56:56 the r is a tap, so you're all hopeless on that >:) 00:59:41 Med ("grapha" sounded in the throat) don ged un drux is your name in enochian oerjan 00:59:50 ais523: "ur" is probably the closest you get in english 01:00:10 I'm learning this language just to have fun 01:00:42 OCH AY 01:00:49 Omai 01:01:26 Ohayo 01:02:09 Ooooooooooooom... 01:02:15 Have you been making anything in esolangs lately oerjan or nah 01:04:54 not in a while no 01:21:30 -!- Decim has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:04 I am writing some more horrifying C code! the function sc7cpy allows to copy a linked list of integers by sc7cpy("dR",ll); 01:23:49 you can copy a tree of integers by sc7cpy("dRR",tree); 01:24:24 what would be the smallest change to NetHack needed to make it TC 01:24:28 ideally actually TC, not just bounded-storage 01:24:56 hmm, how detailed is the enemy behaviour? 01:25:24 the enemy behaviour is mostly incomprehensible, because its bugs obscure its intended features 01:25:31 although I've fixed it a bunch in my own variant 01:26:08 maybe you can find a buffer overflow that leads to arbitrary code execution... just a thought. 01:26:57 i say that doesn't count 01:27:06 it needs to be in portable nethack 01:27:25 oh, philosophy... 01:27:27 int-e: yes, there are a ton of those, but I was thinking in the game mechanics 01:27:47 ais523: add a turing monster hth 01:28:02 oerjan: it's the best I could do with my very limited knowledge of nethack 01:28:13 int-e: me too! 01:28:19 I'd love it if people could automate the dungeon Dwarf Fortress-style 01:28:51 I guess you'd have to involve items somewhere, because they're the only thing in the game that you can have unlimited amounts of under game mechanics (ofc the game itself runs into trouble tracking them eventually, but I just consider that to be an imperfect interp_ 01:28:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:33:20 an imperfect interp_? 01:33:43 an imp_ 01:33:54 * int-e is unsure whether that got cut off. 01:34:07 * int-e realizes that _ is next to ) 01:34:20 * boily summons an imp_ “RISE, MIGHTY FUNGOT!” 01:34:35 the imp tells you to shout less 01:35:01 fungot fhtagn 01:35:02 int-e: there's a parser that works in practice but never had the pro stuff. but who would want to do is allow fnord image transmission. the gba has a linux 01:35:42 oerjan: okay >_>'... 01:35:54 s/_/)/ 01:36:41 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 01:36:43 s)\))_) 01:36:49 `relcome Guest24483 01:36:54 ​Guest24483: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:37:00 `relcome Guest3780 01:37:01 ​Guest3780: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:37:42 boily: you know in perl () actually match in s expressions 01:38:33 no, I didn't know. I expected whatever char appeared after an s to be the one and only delimiter. 01:38:44 is that a perl idiosyncasy, or is it widespread? 01:38:54 that's true except for brackety things 01:39:05 i dunno if it has spread 01:39:12 oh right ... s(...)(...) 01:39:18 oh well. I guess perl's well spread enough by itself. 01:39:20 I think Perl and sed both even allow alphabetic characters as delimeters 01:39:23 *delimiters 01:39:24 I thought it's a perl thing 01:39:28 but this is normally considered a bad idea 01:39:51 parser combinators ftw! 01:39:51 sed want s(foo(bar( 01:39:56 `` perl -e '$_="test"; satamag; print' 01:39:59 test 01:40:04 hmm 01:40:06 maybe Perl doesn't 01:40:13 `` echo "foobar" | perl -e's' 01:40:14 Substitution pattern not terminated at -e line 1. 01:40:45 ` echo "foobar" | perl -pe 's(o)(oo)g' 01:40:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:40:47 `` perl -e '$_="test"; s\t\m\g; print' 01:40:48 `` echo "foobar" | perl -pe 's(o)(oo)g' 01:40:55 foooobar 01:40:56 mesm 01:42:02 perl -e'$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:14 `` perl -e'$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:15 Unrecognized character \x81; marked by <-- HERE after sかtかm<-- HERE near column 21 at -e line 1. 01:42:18 `? nooodl 01:42:22 ` perl -e'$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:42:24 noooodl is the correct spelling 01:42:36 `perl -e'$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:38 No output. 01:42:39 @ask nooodl where are you? 01:42:39 Consider it noted. 01:42:43 `perl -e '$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:46 No output. 01:43:13 fungot: please explain the nooodl incident 01:43:13 int-e: with my version, the systems aren't r6rs requires unicode, why do you need for binary distribution is a coin flipped ( because i wrote it. 01:43:18 `perl $_="test";sかtかmか;print; 01:43:19 Can't open perl script "$_="test";sかtかmか;print;": No such file or directory 01:43:31 `perl -e '$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:43:32 No output. 01:43:48 `perl -e '$_="test\n";sかtかmか;print;' 01:43:48 No output. 01:44:08 oerjan: fwiw, "() actually match in s expressions" really confused me at first; I mean, what does that have to do with Perl? 01:44:42 `` perl -e '$_="か"; s/K/z/; print;' 01:44:43 ​か 01:44:56 meh. it unicodly works. 01:45:15 try unidecode next time. 01:45:40 `` perl -e '$_="test"; s atamag; print' 01:45:41 mesm 01:45:50 * oerjan cackles evilly 01:46:06 ais523: ^ 01:46:22 `` perl -e $_="test";s かtかmか;print' 01:46:22 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:46:28 `` perl -e '$_="test";s かtかmか;print' 01:46:28 Unrecognized character \x81; marked by <-- HERE after かtかm<-- HERE near column 22 at -e line 1. 01:47:38 Perl is old, it operates on bytes. And then there is some utf8 support in string operations. 01:48:07 int-e: Perl operates on codepoints; however, it doesn't necessarily assume that they're Unicode codepoints 01:48:21 a string in Perl is basically a string of 31-bit integers, stored in a compressed representation 01:48:28 int-e: i was pondering for half a minute how to say that better and then gave up 01:48:43 actually Perl is one of the few languages which really supports Unicode well 01:48:57 however, it doesn't necessarily know how to interpret its input 01:49:04 and normally interprets it as bytes for backwards compatibility 01:49:13 perl -e 'print "\x{123}"' 01:49:18 `perl -e 'print "\x{123}"' 01:49:23 `` perl -e 'print "\x{123}"' 01:49:25 No output. 01:49:25 Wide character in print at -e line 1. \ ģ 01:49:41 ``` 01:49:43 Perl's quite happy to have a codepoint 0x123 in a string 01:49:54 Send laptop in to get fixed, or buy new laptop? 01:49:55 No output. 01:49:57 but it doesn't know how to output it because by default, stdout is bytes 01:49:58 Screen is dead 01:50:15 `` perl -e 'binmode STDOUT, ":encoding(UTF-8)"; print "\x{123}"' 01:50:20 ​ģ 01:50:21 Sgeo: any warranty? 01:50:27 `8ball 01:50:29 if you specify an encoding explicitly, everything is fine 01:50:30 int-e: I almost certainly voided it 01:50:32 Ask again later. 01:51:01 Unless taking the latop completely apart does not void the warranty 01:51:14 Sgeo: eiter fix it yourself, use it as youtube for TV, andor buy new 01:51:27 Sgeo: you probably voided it. 01:51:47 Would the manufacturer still repair voided waranty if I pay money? 01:52:43 yea, if you pay 01:53:24 but I would just use it as desktop with external screen for now, and buy new laptop later 01:54:03 There's no room near my couch for a monitor 01:54:11 So I'm standing in a different area 01:54:14 It's inconvenient 01:54:22 Plus the resolution of this monitor is crap 01:55:39 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:05:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STROPPED CHICKEN). 02:25:58 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 02:29:09 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:50:21 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:53:06 i would prefer whatevertheirnameis to leave me alone twhal 02:58:56 -!- variable has joined. 03:00:33 I could buy a better desk, and if that works out, consider building a desktop 03:05:32 next time that would be a laptop 03:05:56 ? 03:06:52 ah, misread the logs 03:06:54 nvm 03:10:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:13:48 i guess building a better lap is out of the question. 03:21:59 oerjan: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=lap+pillow not so. 03:22:55 O KAY 03:23:34 Is there a better way to test .XI files than with OpenMPT? 03:25:22 -!- OrenWatson has changed nick to orin. 03:31:08 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:32:29 -!- adu has joined. 03:32:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:33:11 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 03:38:38 -!- nys has quit (Quit: sleep). 03:41:15 -!- ^v^v has joined. 03:43:08 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:52:01 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:15:56 -!- supay_away has changed nick to supay. 04:21:41 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:36:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZZZETA). 04:42:07 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:44:01 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:48:07 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 05:27:30 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:37:12 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 05:41:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:41:44 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 05:47:54 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:48:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:56:53 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 05:56:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:58:04 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:14:02 http://competent.management/ 06:26:08 Should have been a redirect to iana.org 06:38:31 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 06:42:22 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:48:18 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:09:27 Hmm. the computation of h(14,13) is taking unusually long 07:11:56 I think there is a bug, but i'm not sure where 07:15:02 no. wait all the answers are wrong. 07:19:05 screw this at least my memory mgmt code workd 07:22:55 http://www.paste.org/77910 07:29:53 C programs are littered with code deleting and copying various trees and linked lists. this code handles a general case of that 07:37:16 -!- zadock has joined. 07:47:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:00:01 -!- roasted42 has joined. 08:01:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:04:04 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 08:04:04 -!- roasted42 has joined. 08:04:04 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 08:05:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:31:44 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:32:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:32:25 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:39:55 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: bbl). 08:45:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:46:20 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:48:47 moin 08:56:57 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:06:49 おはよう 09:07:16 おやすみ 09:54:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:31:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:31:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:21:46 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:27:52 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 12:28:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:28:43 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 12:36:12 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:42:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:43:27 oho, less than a day... 12:43:43 int-e, until? 12:43:44 (GG updated) 12:43:47 :O 12:44:11 Oh yeah, this conversation 12:45:05 Of course they cheated and started from an existing train... 12:47:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:12:17 -!- tromp has joined. 13:21:31 -!- boily has joined. 13:22:16 -!- 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13:59:15 -!- rodgort has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:00:04 -!- rodgort has joined. 14:00:36 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:02:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:02:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:03:07 heyo 14:04:21 -!- Guest11531 has quit (Changing host). 14:04:21 -!- Guest11531 has joined. 14:04:42 -!- Guest11531 has changed nick to GeekDude. 14:07:32 Guest3780: hi! how are you enjoying these fine netsplits? 14:12:03 good bmoilnday 14:15:29 -!- magician has joined. 14:15:39 * oerjan wonders if there is any language with words that start with bm 14:15:52 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest6889. 14:18:59 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:18:59 -!- Guest6889 has changed nick to Guest3780. 14:22:05 boerjan lundi! 14:22:10 trusty georgian seems to provide ქიმიური ბმა, meaning chemical bond, the latter word transcribing as "bma" 14:22:11 georgian perhaps? 14:22:23 oh. georgian indeed. 14:22:47 your go-to language for advanced consonant clustering 14:23:06 dvncd 14:23:19 `wlcm me 14:23:20 m: Wlcm t th ntrntnl hb fr strc prgrmmng lngg dsgn nd dplymnt! Fr mr nfrmtn, chck t r wk: . (Fr th thr knd f strc, try #strc n rc.dl.nt.) 14:24:01 `eoe me 14:24:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eoe: not found 14:24:06 goody. 14:24:17 * oerjan tries russian but google doesn't give anything non-acronymy looking starting with бм 14:25:19 Well my small russian dictionary doesn't have anything like that. 14:25:44 (Nor do I recall ever having to pronounce such a word.) 14:26:42 (bummer) 14:26:55 it has днепропетровск but not the labial version 14:29:07 Right. The Днепр is a river. Dnieper in english, isn't that nice... 14:30:53 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:32:52 Oh, this is nice. `дно' means `bottom', its plural is `донья' 14:33:51 And from `ден' they derive `днём', `during daytime'. 14:34:03 (`ден' = `day') 14:35:35 -!- dianne has joined. 14:36:19 ah good i found дна 14:36:29 but wiktionary couldn't find that 14:37:34 oh should have done a proper search 14:37:56 пей до дна 14:39:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:40:00 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:43:07 Sigh. пей is both "drink!" and "sing!" 14:43:23 sing to the bottom... well, no. 14:44:23 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:45:58 now if it was also "women!" russians would have it easy 14:46:59 oho, less than a day... <-- ah. 14:49:50 * int-e wonders whether oerjan deliberately misunderstood "drink!" to be a noun rather than an imperative verb form. 14:51:27 no, i deliberately avoided trying to turn "women" into a verb hth 14:53:14 Wait... 14:53:19 Oh yes 14:53:23 * Taneb is tired :( 14:57:49 Taneb: спи! (bah, stupid irregular verbs) 14:58:12 Aww, it's 4 in the afternoon and a sunny day 14:58:35 Ok, go outside then. 14:59:08 (Just passing on advice I tend to get from my parents. You're welcome, no need to thank me.) 15:00:20 * int-e glimpses outside ... snow?! snow???!!!! WHY??!?!!!!? 15:00:54 Where the hell are you? It's May! 15:00:59 Or April! 15:01:01 One of those! 15:01:07 Innsbruck. It's snowing, but thawing immediately. 15:01:27 @metar LOWI 15:01:27 LOWI 061450Z 26010KT 190V290 4000 R08/P1500D R26/P1500N SHSN SCT003 SCT010 BKN015 02/M01 Q1024 WS R26 TEMPO SHSN 15:01:34 Ew. 15:01:40 WS, wet snow? 15:01:44 int-e: same here yesterday 15:02:07 i guess i'm further north, or something. 15:03:00 oerjan, you are certainly further north 15:03:10 SHSN = snow showers. WS = wind shear 15:03:35 oerjan, aren't you in like one of the furthest north large cities in Europe? 15:05:53 "R26", what do you mean, runway 26? There is only one runway there... (approachable from two directions, maybe that makes 2). 15:10:37 Taneb: i think it depends a lot on your cutoff for "large city". 15:11:07 Hmmm 15:11:43 murmansk is larger, and far more north 15:12:09 OK 15:12:52 Anyway I am going to get some sleep 15:12:59 * oerjan hates that google maps removed the quick zoomout bar 15:15:32 fähigkeit: 2 mana - fügt 30 schade zu 15:15:37 damn 15:15:39 fc 15:15:44 But yeah, the runway ends are marked 26 and 08. Funny. 15:16:01 myname: zu schade. 15:17:21 also, i don't like that if you zoom out enough to see all of scandinavia and murmansk, all the city names disappear. 15:17:29 (is there a direction encoded in the numbers... looks that way: "Runways are named by a number between 01 and 36, which is generally the magnetic azimuth of the runway's heading in decadegrees" 15:17:35 well, nearly all. 15:17:59 ) 15:18:32 hm i guess they wouldn't want two runways in the same direction. 15:19:40 They do. They get suffixes: L, M, R. 15:19:56 (I'm reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runway ) 15:20:27 (It gets really funny when there are more than 3 parallely runways) 15:20:33 s/y// 15:20:38 hmm. 15:20:51 s/reall/really/; s/lely/lel/ 15:23:39 And its L, C, R. 15:23:44 -!- variable has joined. 15:31:26 ah. 15:32:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:42:49 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 15:59:17 @metar EGLL 15:59:18 EGLL 061550Z 02008KT 340V050 9999 FEW032 15/08 Q1032 TEMPO BKN014 15:59:32 I was told this place is cold and rainy. 16:01:49 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 16:04:43 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:10:04 let's create a really awful language called every_other_language 16:10:20 so that you can say "every_other_language sucks" 16:10:43 then someone shall create a language called "this_language" which is just a little bit better 16:10:55 so that he can say "this_language is better than every_other_language" 16:12:31 already done? 16:19:02 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 16:23:07 -!- roasted42 has joined. 16:24:05 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 16:24:05 -!- roasted42 has joined. 16:24:05 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 16:25:32 @metar CYQB 16:25:33 CYQB 061600Z 23004KT 30SM BKN220 M03/M16 A3031 RMK CI7 SLP270 16:28:56 -!- ^v has joined. 16:36:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:36:41 -!- augur has joined. 16:40:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CLAD CHICKEN). 17:01:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:32:21 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:32:55 -!- int-e has left ("CONTRAPOSITIVE CHICKEN"). 17:32:55 -!- int-e has joined. 17:36:06 -!- hassa-aravit has quit (K-Lined). 17:50:49 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:52:48 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 18:02:08 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: brb). 18:02:51 -!- roasted42 has joined. 18:05:14 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 18:05:14 -!- roasted42 has joined. 18:05:14 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 18:08:48 -!- Apostle has joined. 18:08:51 Hello. 18:09:11 -!- Apostle has changed nick to Inji. 18:14:05 hello 18:15:33 So I've never been here before. 18:15:37 This is a huge esoteric chat 18:17:00 `welcome Inji 18:17:01 Inji: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:17:21 Oh... 18:17:26 So it's not actual esotericism. 18:17:26 why no relcome? 18:17:30 It's a joke language. 18:17:52 myname, I wasn't in the mood 18:18:09 Inji, yeah, we're a programming channel 18:18:14 Stick around, if you want! 18:18:16 I should've known. 18:20:29 -!- Inji has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:21:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Changing server). 18:23:35 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:24:09 -!- ^v^v has joined. 18:27:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:30:17 -!- augur_ has joined. 18:34:21 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: bye for now). 18:41:07 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:57:35 -!- variable has joined. 19:24:14 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:39:10 -!- nszceta has joined. 19:40:55 Isit just me, or is the fopen() function designed terribly? 19:41:16 it's not just you 19:41:53 I don't like the way it takes a string for its parameters 19:42:03 I think it evolved rather than being designed 19:42:20 it's more or less fit for its purpose but not elegant ;) 19:44:36 -!- Guest24483 has changed nick to elliott. 19:44:40 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 19:44:40 -!- elliott has joined. 19:45:00 `elcome elliott 19:45:01 lliott: elcome o he nternational ub or soteric rogramming anguage esign nd eployment! or ore nformation, heck ut ur iki: . (or he ther ind f soterica, ry #soteric n rc.al.et.) 19:45:08 hanks 19:45:16 (elliott may have been here before, I forgot. ;-) ) 19:46:10 Is .rg or .et a real TLD? 19:46:50 .et I guess would be for aliens? 19:47:37 Ethopia actually. 19:47:54 elliott: to answer your question, yes I'm actually on the NHDT 19:47:54 oh, right. 19:47:58 Sgeo: ^ 19:47:58 .et is Ethiopia, .rg does not exist 19:48:16 Oh there's an i there. 19:48:20 coppro: why the 5 days wait :p 19:48:37 elliott: I only remembered now 19:48:42 (that you asked about it) 19:48:47 coppro, NHDT? 19:48:57 coppro: you told me at the time it was part of an april fool's or something 19:49:09 .rg ... um, maybe a site for the greatness of Roentgenium? 19:49:32 elliott: The April Fool's was that the announcement was real 19:49:41 Taneb: NetHack DevTeam 19:49:51 Aaaaah 19:49:52 .rg is for role playing gamers who take RPGs seriously (they stopped playing) 19:50:24 coppro: dumb :P 19:50:32 ha! yes, indeed. ffvii.rg, masseffect.rg, etc 19:50:39 coppro: did ais not get on the devteam because naming it NH4 pissed them off 19:50:46 that's what I would like to believe 19:51:09 elliott: I don't actually know the reason. But most likely because he expressed that he wasn't sure he'd want to join 19:51:41 coppro: so does this mean I can literally rant to a nethack devteam member about how nethack fucking sucks now 19:51:44 awesome 19:52:08 yes 19:52:14 maybe in PM, but yes 19:54:12 (and I'm serious, feedback is good. it won't all get fixed next release, but it's still good) 19:55:59 The only feedback I can give on Nethack is that I am not very good at it 20:07:31 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 20:13:36 -!- nszceta_ has joined. 20:15:06 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:16:02 -!- nszceta_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:16:56 -!- nszceta has joined. 20:18:13 -!- magician has joined. 20:18:37 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest72111. 20:22:12 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:22:12 -!- Guest72111 has changed nick to Guest3780. 20:23:52 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:27:28 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:27 -!- augur has joined. 20:39:04 -!- orin has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:47:57 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:48:49 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 20:48:53 When Pokemon Pinball is loaded into Visual Boy Advance, Pikachu is being too quietly! 20:59:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:00:54 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:01:52 -!- oren has joined. 21:08:21 -!- variable has joined. 21:22:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:23:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:32:26 mechanical keys 21:32:28 instant convert 21:44:05 what are you playing 21:45:27 -!- adu has joined. 21:46:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:46:28 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:47:04 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 21:52:41 -!- shikhout has joined. 21:52:44 -!- shikhout has changed nick to Guest90138. 21:52:52 -!- Guest90138 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:46 coppro: my feedback could only be resolved by redesigning the entire game, sorry :p 22:07:54 Then make up a new game. 22:08:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:08:55 Gregor: great idling there 22:11:41 Inji, yeah, we're a programming channel <-- if we'd managed to send all those people to a place where they'd stay, it would have been a huge channel by now. 22:12:02 sadly, something something critical mass. 22:12:21 I wonder if there's a channel somewhere out there that keeps getting people who want to be here 22:12:32 #haskell hth 22:12:41 :P 22:12:55 but do they want to be there? really? 22:13:04 `? haskell 22:13:05 Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 22:13:29 whoa, implicitparams 22:13:59 :t ? haskle 22:14:00 Not in scope: ‘?’ 22:14:00 Not in scope: ‘haskle’ 22:14:00 Perhaps you meant ‘handle’ (imported from Control.Exception) 22:14:42 haskle would be the obvious norwegian borrowing from the english verb haskell 22:15:34 ler deg haskle med ørjan? 22:16:16 *lær deg å 22:18:17 the å isn't optional in norwegian, yet. although with the speed we're absorbing swedish constructions, ask again in a decade or two. 22:20:39 or maybe they're english constructions. 22:21:02 not sure, I think the å (att) is probably not really optional in swedish 22:21:08 ok 22:21:28 i found a google hit so may have misinterpreted. 22:23:23 do swedes say "jag har tänkt att [haskla]" or "jag har tänkt till att [haskla]"? 22:25:15 because the shift from the former to the latter in norwegian is one of the grating examples to this old fart 22:25:21 the former, but it sounds quite formal still 22:25:29 ah. 22:26:02 I'd probably say "jag tänkte haskla" 22:26:21 oh. again, the "å" is not optional. 22:26:58 very well. my obvious theory of the origin of this travesty has been proved wrong, then. 22:32:10 haskell is a verb? 22:32:30 otherwise, how could there be haskellers 22:33:00 As in "I haskelled a program"? 22:33:08 I haskelled a haskell 22:33:20 Or is it "I haskold a program"? 22:33:27 "We have haskelled a lot over the past few days" 22:33:31 (like tell, told) 22:33:38 I don't think Haskell takes an object 22:33:43 I mean, it's not Java 22:33:51 good point 22:38:12 elliott: just play crawl then 22:38:27 coppro: the exact same applies to crawl actually 22:38:43 elliott: play ADOM then :P 22:38:50 * coppro ducks 22:38:51 admittedly I find it more fun, but 22:38:58 coppro: ADOM is designed? 22:39:27 Go play a real video game, you nerd 22:40:18 elliott, play Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team 22:41:04 そう言えば、どこかgoogleは日本語の動詞「ググる」と読んだ。たとえば、「その映画をググりました」。 22:41:06 * Taneb is helping 22:41:11 or Chocobo Dungeon 22:41:32 elliott: when you say 'the exact same', do you mean the same issues? or only that it needs a redesign 22:41:39 the latter 22:41:42 They should just make a game where you delve through a dungeon as a goat and crash into things 22:41:49 elliott: also, a significant part of NetHack is likely to get redesigned over the next while, assuming the DT remains active. 22:41:53 nethack and crawl have tons of issues but probably mostly not the same ones 22:41:54 So I'm still interested in hearing :) 22:42:04 that's scary :P 22:42:07 changing nethack at all is scary 22:42:18 how can you disturb the delicate balance of everything just slightly not at all working 22:42:20 Jafet: If you know how to and what deatils, you make up! 22:42:39 hackcode can't really be scarier than it already is 22:42:59 elliott: some of the bigger issues like Gehennom are definitely on the radar screen 22:43:25 Make some for Famicom. 22:43:31 I think I'm going to end up twisting my neck 22:43:46 My monitor is to my right side, my laptop is straight in front of me 22:43:54 I suspect my design philosophy coheres with exactly zero of the nethack devteam members, anyway. for what it's worth, sil, brogue and necrodancer are the roguelikes that come to mind as having the most admirable design, though the former two at least are certainly flawed (and the latter relies on the gimmick to be an effective game) 22:45:32 There are also "small roguelikes" such as KING and The Rougelike! 22:45:51 elliott: I'm still interested in hearing 22:45:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:45:57 I can't speak for other team members 22:46:03 * Sgeo hasn't played either Crawl or Nethack in a while 22:46:11 The latter for the dumbest possible reason 22:46:15 tbh it has been so long since I played NH that i probably can't give much concrete 22:46:47 "how about getting rid of all the grinding and instadeaths and really spoilery things" 22:47:12 Gehennom is the big grind 22:47:15 I have a reasonable game going on NAO, and for the past N years have been scared of messing it up. 22:47:18 that's the only real problem area for that I think 22:47:27 what do you mean by spoilery things? 22:47:58 I mean like 80% of the game. 22:48:07 ohhh 22:48:23 (that's the only grind in nethack? have you ever seen an altar??) 22:48:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:48:54 oh yeah, good point 22:48:57 Is Crawl grindy? iirc one of the philosophies is antigrind 22:49:11 less so 22:49:28 In crawl you grind through adventurers 22:49:29 it can be tedious in many ways but they're not generally "doing the exact same thing N times" 22:50:07 coppro: okay, here's my one concrete suggestion: please, god, either automate or eliminate price-id 22:50:23 yeah 22:50:42 the identification game in general needs attention 23:07:49 -!- augur has joined. 23:09:37 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 23:09:56 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting). 23:11:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:13:14 -!- Melvar has joined. 23:19:03 -!- augur has joined. 23:29:10 -!- idris-bot has joined. 23:48:11 -!- vodkode_ has joined.