←2015-04-22 2015-04-23 2015-04-24→ ↑2015 ↑all
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00:10:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SplatterWorthy * New user account
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00:34:35 <Sgeo_> `slist A6A6I5
00:34:35 <HackEgo> slist A6A6I5: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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00:58:22 <shachaf> `cat bin/emptylist
00:58:23 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit
00:58:28 <shachaf> such a good shell script
01:05:16 <paul2520> I don't get it... what does it mean?
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01:32:17 <oren> it is all over
01:33:53 <oren> hmm that's too general. my school is all over
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01:37:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42723&oldid=42631 * Esowiki201529A * (+27)
01:39:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/HTML interpreter]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42724&oldid=42589 * Esowiki201529A * (+3) /* See also */
01:40:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42725&oldid=42723 * Esowiki201529A * (+58)
01:42:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42726&oldid=42725 * Esowiki201529A * (+29) /* See also */
01:45:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42727&oldid=42726 * Esowiki201529A * (+206) /* Unprintable character */
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01:53:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42728&oldid=42727 * Esowiki201529A * (+120) /* Blank characters */
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01:55:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42729&oldid=42728 * Esowiki201529A * (+89) /* Unprintable characters */
02:13:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42730&oldid=42729 * Esowiki201529A * (+57) /* Unprintable characters */
02:16:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42731&oldid=42730 * Esowiki201529A * (+41) /* Unprintable characters */
02:17:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Piet++]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42733 * SplatterWorthy * (+6066) Created page with "This is a work in progress, and is still in development. '''Piet++''' is a stack orientated 2 dimensional programming language expanding upon the functionality of [[Piet]]. I..."
02:18:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42734&oldid=42731 * Esowiki201529A * (+40) /* Unprintable characters */
02:20:19 <creationBlues> So I've been thinking about the specifics of Piet++ recently, does anybody have any commentary on the language?
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03:03:03 <coppro> where's the spec for Piet++
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04:58:20 <oren> http://ctrlv.in/562934 <-- oh the horror
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06:31:14 <mitchs> "mitchs_ already in use. Retrying with mitchs_..." <-- HexChat has a stubborn side
06:32:03 <izabera> wtf is bin/emptylist
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06:49:34 <oren> `emptylist
06:49:34 <HackEgo> emptylist:
06:50:09 <oren> I guess it's a list of nicks with no nicks in it?
06:52:58 <izabera> `` echo james lily >> bin/emptylist
06:53:00 <HackEgo> No output.
06:53:06 <izabera> `` echo harry ron hermione >> bin/emptylist
06:53:08 <shachaf> `revert
06:53:10 <HackEgo> No output.
06:53:14 <izabera> ehy
06:53:16 <izabera> stfu
06:53:21 <izabera> `` cat bin/emptylist
06:53:24 <HackEgo> Done.
06:53:25 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ james lily
06:53:31 <izabera> `` echo harry ron hermione >> bin/emptylist
06:53:40 <HackEgo> No output.
06:53:41 <izabera> `emptylist
06:53:42 <shachaf> Please don't vandalize.
06:53:42 <HackEgo> emptylist: james lily harry ron hermione
06:53:46 <izabera> i'm not
06:54:23 <shachaf> `revert 5324
06:54:25 <HackEgo> Done.
06:55:10 <izabera> that's so much better
06:55:12 <izabera> w/ever
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07:32:34 <oren> How many items can be in one square in DF?
07:34:04 <oren> Apparently every non-food item in my fortress
07:34:27 <oren> (other than corpses and refuse)
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07:58:28 <FireFly> izabera: I think the point is to be able to copy from it when creating a new *list
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09:02:49 <izabera> what is a *list ?
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09:03:34 <elliott> like RSS but it causes more #esoteric arguments
09:09:27 <elliott> slist is homestuck, olist is order of the stick, I forget the others
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10:19:41 <FireFly> `` ls bin/*list
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10:21:01 <FireFly> `echo are you alive, HackEgo?
10:22:04 <HackEgo> bin/danddreclist \ bin/dontaskdonttelllist \ bin/don'taskdon'ttelllist \ bin/emptylist \ bin/erflist \ bin/list \ bin/llist \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/testlist
10:22:05 <HackEgo> are you alive, HackEgo?
10:22:53 <oren> apparently Hackego is FIFO
10:26:09 <int-e> Fifoification?
10:27:53 <izabera> you mean slowfo
10:31:14 <izabera> http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1427914345783.gif
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10:57:53 <FireFly> `cat bin/makelist
10:57:56 <HackEgo> cp bin/emptylist bin/"$1"
10:58:09 <FireFly> izabera: ↑ so that's what it's for
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12:11:33 <oerjan> `help
12:11:33 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
12:23:51 <Taneb> I had a thought today
12:24:30 <Taneb> Matrices of regular expressions
12:24:36 <Taneb> I have no idea what they would do
12:26:26 <oerjan> OKAY
12:26:52 <Taneb> But you could like multiply them sort of
12:26:56 <oerjan> if you can make a commutative semiring of regular expressions, the rest is simple.
12:27:33 <Taneb> It's not commutative, I don't think, but it has an identity
12:27:59 <oerjan> too bad, commutativity is required for matrices to behave nicely
12:28:21 <Taneb> Really?
12:28:30 <oerjan> well at least for determinants to do
12:29:03 <Taneb> 0 is the empty language, 1, is the language containing the empty string, + is union, * is concatenation
12:29:19 <oerjan> i suppose it's not entirely obligatory, i vaguely recall we made matrices out of C*-algebra elements back in my day
12:30:01 <oerjan> and C*-algebras aren't very interesting if they're commutative (then they're essentially just ordinary function spaces)
12:31:58 <oerjan> Taneb: although the thing that's _completely_ non-negotiable for sanity is distributivity.
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12:32:13 <Taneb> I think we have that
12:32:37 <Taneb> a(b U c) is the same as (ab) U (ac)
12:32:48 <Taneb> Same on the RHS
12:33:13 <oerjan> and union is commutative. maybe it checks out as a semiring then.
12:33:52 <Taneb> It's definitely a semiring
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12:45:47 <Taneb> Now, the question is, is there any way this matrix could be useful
12:46:30 <oerjan> well if you have a vector of languages, what happens if you apply the matrix to it
12:46:53 <oerjan> this should be s "semi"linear transformation
12:47:16 <oerjan> *a
12:48:46 <oerjan> hm this resembles a kind of reverse parsing, i think
12:49:54 <Taneb> Hmm?
12:50:47 <oerjan> you map a vector of regexps/languages to another vector, formed by adding prefixes to the original elements
12:51:00 <oerjan> and taking unions
12:51:36 <oerjan> and parsing usually starts with recognizing prefixes
12:51:46 <oerjan> very vaguely
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13:31:26 <elliott> `relcome Adam_T Spatterworthy
13:31:36 <HackEgo> Adam_T: Spatterworthy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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13:59:43 <oren> ol pop in an oak pop in an oak ??incomprehensible??
14:00:50 <oren> seriously it's like the singer suddenly switches to vcantonese
14:02:07 <Taneb> My PSU arrived! :)
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14:06:17 <oren> Taneb: how many outputs
14:06:34 <oren> and how much current?
14:08:48 <Taneb> 600W
14:13:35 <oren> Did you know, if you connect two PSU's in series, it doesn't work like batteries? Instead one of the PSU's will burn up.
14:16:30 <oren> (or sometimes the wire connecting them. I tried several configurations, it just doesn't work)
14:21:51 <Taneb> Don't PSUs convert AC to DC?
14:21:56 <Taneb> What did you think would happen?
14:23:11 <oren> I assumed if I connected the 0V of PSU A to the +12V of PSU B, that the voltage difference from the +12V of A to the 0V of B would be a total of 24V.
14:24:17 <oren> It works like that if you do it with two 9V batteries
14:24:30 <oren> you get 18V difference
14:26:19 <oren> But no. Instead your copper wires become !!copper wire!!s
14:27:01 <oren> even before the circuit is even a closed circuit
14:32:08 <oerjan> fancy
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14:47:19 <oerjan> shachaf: i feel like i'm getting in over my head :(
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15:19:18 <Taneb> Installing a PSU is very easy when you have a more competent housemate who likes to do things his own way
15:24:23 * oerjan notes that Taneb's statement could be either literal or sarcastic, dependently.
15:24:40 <Taneb> oerjan, it's actually both
15:24:46 <Taneb> I'm not doing any work for it
15:25:02 <Taneb> Although my housemate, who is in fact more competent at this sort of thing, is having some difficulty
15:25:19 <oerjan> OKAY
15:28:33 <int-e> . o O ( It's called delegation. )
15:30:15 <Taneb> He pretty much made me sit down so he could do it
15:38:37 <shachaf> oerjan: seems that spj has not been kind to you hth
15:38:58 <Taneb> :(?
15:49:39 <tswett> Given a set S of 32 elements, how many subsets of S can you put in a collection T such that no element of T is a subset of another element of T?
15:49:46 <tswett> Is it just 32 choose 16?
15:49:48 <oerjan> Taneb: i made https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/10343
15:51:12 <oerjan> not realizing it would mean further obligations hth
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15:52:48 <oerjan> my last comment tries to condense to the core of it
15:58:00 <Taneb> :/
15:58:49 * oerjan edits description
16:02:25 * oerjan forgot that he shouldn't copy and paste rendered markup into source markup
16:03:19 <Taneb> :\
16:04:00 <oerjan> ->
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16:12:43 <Taneb> Aaaah my desktop is working!
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16:18:56 <Taneb> @ping
16:18:57 <lambdabot> pong
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16:33:18 <elliott> `relcome emapaere
16:33:19 <HackEgo> emapaere: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
16:34:09 <b_jonas> help, I have digged too deep into the Windows API!
16:34:40 <b_jonas> I need a ring of jumping or levitation so I can get out
16:34:44 <Taneb> Oh no!
16:40:54 <Taneb> @nixos
16:40:55 <lambdabot> Any change is resisted because bureaucrats have a vested interest in the chaos in which they exist.
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16:41:56 <ais523> oh, I thought that was fungot for a moment
16:41:56 <fungot> ais523: fnord egobot ___________________ ' !hangman lcase-guess' to guess a letter!... i think
16:42:00 <ais523> and thought it was oddly insightful
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17:00:25 <fizzie> What, you don't find ___________________ insightful?
17:00:46 <ais523> it's clearly a hangman puzzle
17:00:54 <ais523> with nobody to check the guesses
17:01:00 <ais523> which is kind-of philosophical in its own way
17:01:55 <fizzie> fungot: Any 'e's?
17:01:55 <fungot> fizzie: since lisp was devised, it has to make an example ( other than making it do the right thing? continuations being there and all
17:03:59 <fizzie> fungot: 't's? 'a's? 'o's? 'i's? 'n's? 's's? 'h's? 'r's? 'd's? 'l's? 'u's?
17:03:59 <fungot> fizzie: pfft. you and your crazy fnord do it in
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17:15:11 <b_jonas> that looks like an eliza template to me, not a hangman puzzle
17:16:06 <fizzie> The '!hangman lcase-guess' part is kind of a giveaway, though.
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19:22:34 <b_jonas> everyone, gcc 5.1 is released
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19:34:15 <nortti> a simple system I've been playing with like since forever: you have 4 objects (e, A, B, C) and one operator (I generally don't mark it) that is communtative and associative. eX = X, AB = C, BC = A, AC = B, XX = e
19:36:38 <nortti> originally, eABC were operations on rotating a rhombus while keeping it symmetrical to the original one (do nothing, flip along X axis, flip along Y axis, rotate 180° about the center), but soon I figured that the 4 positions (0, 1, 2, 3) could be represented as (0e, 0A, 0B, 0C), and dropped the positions off
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19:37:24 <ais523> nortti: that reminds me of quaternions
19:37:41 <nortti> it is probably not that interesting, but I've noticed a couple fun properties on it, like if you represent (e, A, B, C) as (00, 01, 10, 11), the operator is XOR
19:37:49 <ais523> except with quaternions, you have ij = k, jk = i, ki = j, but ji = -k, kj = -i, ik = -j
19:38:02 <nortti> yeah, I've run into them
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19:38:09 <nortti> didn't make that connection, tho
19:38:12 <ais523> and xx (where x = i, j, or k) = -1
19:38:37 <ais523> actually I think this is the set {1 or -1, i or -i, j or -j, k or -k} under quaternion multiplication
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19:42:25 <nortti> a reduced version of it uses only (A, B). I usually replace then e as AA and C as AB. there are a couple fun ways to evaluate it, for example xxx = x, BA = AB, BB = AA
19:42:59 <nortti> err, xxy = y *
19:43:57 <nortti> oh and xy = yx, too
19:51:29 <nortti> hmm, actually, the xy = yx is not requires, since if (x,y) is (A,A) or (B,B), it'd be a nop, and (A,B) and (B,A) can be gotten using the BA = AB rule
19:51:50 <ais523> is Parsec O(n)?
19:52:18 <ais523> on the length of the input, for all reasonable grammars?
19:52:35 <b_jonas> ais523: no, I don't think so
19:52:49 <b_jonas> ais523: isn't it a full backtrack parser?
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19:53:12 <int-e> I guess the question is for Parsec without `try`.
19:53:22 <ais523> b_jonas: I think so, yes
19:53:41 <ais523> int-e: I'm thinking about backtrack parsers versus LR parsers
19:53:55 <ais523> versus the sort-of pseudo-LR I'm ending up with in ayacc that has more primitives
19:54:07 <ais523> sadly I can't match bison output in size, probably not even with the hand-coded asm I'm working on
19:54:21 <ais523> I might be able to match it in speed because of better branch prediction, but maybe not due to caching effects
19:54:26 <ais523> oh, which reminds me
19:54:49 <ais523> ayacc is now feature-complete against POSIX, except for occasional UB in cases that shouldn't matter but nonetheless needs eliminating
19:54:52 <b_jonas> ais523: by pseudo-LR, do you mean optimized LR?
19:55:01 <ais523> (such as returning an uninitialized value from a function, then not using it)
19:55:13 <ais523> b_jonas: it's based on optimizing LR tables
19:55:13 <b_jonas> ais523: good, is there a public release? and where?
19:55:19 <ais523> but it has rather more actions than shift/reduce
19:56:13 <ais523> b_jonas: http://nethack4.org/media/alex/ayacc/ayacc.pl , public but currently license-undecided
19:56:16 <ais523> although I'll probably do GPL3
19:56:29 <ais523> also I haven't finished documenting it yet
19:57:26 <b_jonas> thanks
19:58:33 <b_jonas> ais523: is that a release, or only a snapshot or escape?
19:59:10 <ais523> snapshot
19:59:18 <ais523> that's pointing straight into the darcs repo
19:59:21 <int-e> ais523: Parsec has this odd behavior of committing to a choice when at least one input token has been consumed, unless one uses `try` explicitly. It's meant to plug a common memory leak, but I think it also means that if you stick to the Applicative fragment of Parsec (so you're not able to build parsers from previously parsed things, which the monadic parser interface allows) it should be...
19:59:27 <int-e> ...either nonterminating or linear...
20:00:33 <int-e> (still without `try`.)
20:01:15 <ais523> hmm, LR parsers are a bit like that
20:01:26 <ais523> they always decide to either reduce or not reduce (and if reducing, how) on every token
20:01:31 <ais523> which is what keeps them O(n)
20:01:45 <int-e> This is highly informal; I'm actually missing some finiteness constraint in there as well (you can write down an infinite grammar, with increasing number of branches, even when sticking to the Applicative fragment... so tricky.)
20:01:47 <ais523> the big innovation over LL parsers is that they can decide to shift without committing as to why
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20:02:38 <b_jonas> ais523: right
20:03:11 <ais523> it's interesting looking over the C-INTERCAL grammar for places where that's necessary
20:03:13 <ais523> there are a few
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20:23:51 <b_jonas> in 4-intercal with the prefix operator syntax extension, does DO.6<-,7SUB#82?#9 parse as DO.6<-,7SUB#8#2?9 or as DO.6<-,7SUB#82#?9 or something else?
20:24:18 <ais523> b_jonas: the 82 parses as a single token in C-INTERCAL at least
20:24:39 <b_jonas> ais523: I see. what if I put a space, like DO.6<-,7SUB#8 2?#9
20:24:50 <ais523> then I think it'd lex as an 8 and a 2?
20:25:15 <ais523> C-INTERCAL uses a separate lexer and parser
20:25:16 <ais523> arguably it shouldn't
20:26:45 <ais523> I've seen a plausible argument that INTERCAL-72 allows spaces inside keywords (that aren't READ OUT)
20:26:48 <b_jonas> ais523: shouldn't as in to emulate the strange behavior of certain BASIC implementations where AX OR B parses as A XOR B ?
20:26:58 <ais523> err, (not just READ OUT, the other ones too)
20:27:00 <b_jonas> and I think some FORTRAN implementations
20:27:17 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah, in fact I think some dialects of basic spelt GOTO as GO TO
20:27:25 <b_jonas> but later GOTO became the norm
20:27:29 <ais523> Algol 68 has a go to keyword
20:27:34 <ais523> but then, it allows spaces inside variable names too
20:27:43 <b_jonas> significant or non-significant spaces?
20:27:54 <ais523> and variable names that are the same as keywords
20:28:00 <ais523> they're significant in 68 and nonsignificant in 60, IIRC
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20:41:22 <fizzie> "The World Bank has already given approval for the payment of your fund while they deliberately delay your payment and continue to demand fees from different departments mostly from Africa, the UK , Europe and Asia all in an attempt to enrich their private accounts. I wonder why you haven’t notice all these while. I am Christian and my religion does not permit such."
20:41:32 <fizzie> The last bit was a new twist for me.
20:42:04 <fizzie> (This is from an "IMF agent attach to the World Bank office".)
20:43:14 <fizzie> "Not very long after the World Bank completed the acquisition process of all pending payments, I discovered that my boss connived with some top officials of the World Bank to divert funds already approved to settle inheritances, email lottery winners and international contractors."
20:43:24 <fizzie> Nice "cover all common spam stories" part there.
20:47:55 <b_jonas> ais523: so when you say the docs is incomplete, that means you'll document the basic C++ support ayacc offers (same C-like interface, but brace blocks in grammar contain C++ code, and output is to be compiled with C++), right?
20:48:28 <ais523> it doesn't really have C++ support yet
20:48:34 <ais523> except inasmuch as C works
20:48:42 <ais523> that'll change, but I need help from someone who knows more C++ than I do
20:50:10 <b_jonas> ais523: I mean only basic C++ support. you probably don't really need to implement anything for that, you just have to make sure you don't use anything in the template that doesn't work in C++, such as implicit cast from void* or such things
20:51:03 <ais523> I'm thinking more about RAII support
20:51:10 <b_jonas> ais523: also, I assume you'll document more about how the interface is reentrant, and how it doesn't heap-allocate anything so you can just break out of it with longjmp or C++ exceptions, how to destroy symbol values when you break out this way or when there's a parse failure
20:51:14 <ais523> without that it isn't really C++
20:51:27 <b_jonas> ais523: well sure, you can do more lots of things for more advanced C++ support
20:51:32 <b_jonas> I might even be able to help in that
20:51:35 <b_jonas> but first things first
20:53:13 <b_jonas> oh by the way, if the language is currently determined by the source output filename given by the -o switch, then some C++ people will hate you for using .h or .hpp or .hxx as a file extension of the header no matter what extension you choose, unless you add an option to set the name of the header
20:53:34 <b_jonas> C++ file extensions are in a sad state
20:55:03 <int-e> #include <vector> // the solution is obvious
20:55:58 <b_jonas> int-e: um, why would you need that? ayacc's C output already doesn't heap allocate anything
20:56:09 <int-e> .hh is also a thing.
20:56:21 <int-e> But what about .H to match .C?
20:56:37 <b_jonas> it allocates everything on the stack, so RAII should work fine, except when it uses longjmp which has to be replaced by C++ exceptions if you want it to work, and <vector> doesn't help in that
20:56:41 <int-e> b_jonas: I was talking about file extensions
20:56:50 <b_jonas> oh
20:56:52 <b_jonas> sorry
20:56:56 <b_jonas> you mean no extension at all
20:57:34 <b_jonas> int-e: ok, but ayacc won't choose any of those by default, so anyone who likes those rarer choices will hate you anyway
20:58:43 <b_jonas> ayacc will probably have to use either .hpp or .h by default, because those are the most common
20:59:16 <b_jonas> (admittedly, Eigen uses no-extension files for its public interface.)
20:59:27 <int-e> The only .H C++ files I have are from an example in the ocaml source distribution...
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21:00:08 <int-e> and those have all capital file names, so some case-insensitive file system was probably involved at some point.
21:00:40 <int-e> (Sorry, for some reason I find those trivial conventions quite fascinating.)
21:00:49 <b_jonas> int-e: what extension does that use for c++ source files
21:01:25 <int-e> .CPP
21:01:31 <b_jonas> I see
21:01:43 <int-e> or, apparently, .CPP.gz ... to save space?!
21:01:55 <b_jonas> hehehe
21:02:00 <b_jonas> oh by the way
21:02:44 <b_jonas> last week I've seen actual unix compress compressed files (with a .Z extension) on the web
21:02:56 <b_jonas> that's, like, old
21:03:26 <b_jonas> and they weren't just named that, they were really that
21:04:16 <b_jonas> have you seen such a thing yet?
21:05:08 <int-e> found another one... https://github.com/ghc/nofib/blob/master/real/gg/gg.stdin-2.Z
21:05:34 <int-e> (from the nofib benchmark suite used by ghc)
21:05:44 <b_jonas> wow
21:05:45 <b_jonas> I see
21:06:23 <int-e> but usually it's just very old software (xdu-3.0.tar.Z) or old papers from people's homepages (I have a number of foo.ps.Z)
21:06:55 <b_jonas> yes, these were old papers in ps.Z
21:07:10 <b_jonas> it surprised me, usually they're gzipped instead
21:09:46 <int-e> what a nice headline... "Using the docker command to root the host (totally not a security issue)"
21:11:21 <int-e> (link: http://reventlov.com/advisories/using-the-docker-command-to-root-the-host )
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21:16:37 <elliott> isn't the docker command meant to be restricted o those with root access
21:16:47 <elliott> since you can easily do whatever you want to the system with it anyway
21:17:27 <elliott> i mean i've not used docker but i knew that so it's probably communicated well enough already
21:19:42 <elliott> *to those
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22:38:22 <oerjan> at least goldfire seems to understand what i mean :P
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