2015-04-01: 00:11:45 Fail. The lecture slides for my course, I just realized their mtime is in 2006, indicating this guy has been giving the same lectures with the same material for 9 years. 00:12:56 * oren idly wonders if he makes new tests... 00:13:18 helloren. which course? 00:14:45 Knowledge Representation and Reasoning, i.e. the out-of-fashion kind of AI 00:15:41 oh, lucky! 00:15:44 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:18:18 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:34:33 well, if it's out-of-fashion... 00:35:19 the AIs are just keeping it out of fashion to prevent competition hth 00:35:25 I have a digital cable box (I don't need it, but someone else here uses it); I figured out how to access the diagnostics menu, user setting menu, and in the review configuration menu pushing the FAV button displays many additional screens of information; I don't know what all of them mean, but on some screens pushing A allows entering a command with the numbers, the GuideNet screen lists them. 00:35:38 elliott: good point. perhaps not much work has been done beyond what is in the text. everyone and their mother is doing neural networks now 00:35:41 Some screens display IP addresses. Unfortunately I don't know what any of that is or how to use any of it 00:37:03 couldn't you write a GUI in VB to track them? 00:37:18 * oerjan swats boily -----### 00:37:29 (evenoily) 00:37:50 muah ah ah :D 00:38:04 (evoerjaning.) 00:38:07 -!- Lymee has joined. 00:38:16 Lymello! 00:38:32 boillo 00:40:06 shellchellof! 00:40:25 I don't know what GuideNet means or what the IP address and other information under "interactive status" means either; Wikipedia has no information. I was able to look up DOCSIS and MoCA on Wikipedia though. 00:41:04 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:41:50 what happens if you put the ip into browser? 00:42:33 I tried connecting using netcat to various port numbers and found nothing. 00:43:11 do you feel courageous enough to nmap the fungot out of those IPs? 00:43:11 boily: they make a movie out of " disk" space...) stuff. i just think you're an abomination" :) 00:43:17 fungot: eille! 00:43:18 boily: discordianism is almost not a joke really, because the first 00:43:30 I don't have nmap though 00:44:07 One of them seems to be a LAN address; even though my internet is on the same cable as the television, I cannot connect to it. 00:44:20 weird. 00:44:52 I didn't try UDP though; I don't know if maybe that's what I need. 00:45:09 oerjan: on a completely off-topic subject, you know I still have PHHHMHSD? 00:45:37 >_> <_< 00:45:38 (Post Hej Hej Hemst Micket (sorry for the orthograph) Hej Syndrome Disorder) 00:45:46 ah! 00:46:41 i recommend exposure therapy hth 00:48:24 I don't know what that means though 00:48:29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_%28photography%29 ?! 00:48:42 zzo38: you do well. continue not knowing. it's good for you. 00:49:05 int-ello. I hope. 00:49:10 (hezzo38!) 00:49:49 portmantello 00:50:31 I recommend crazy frog therapy 00:51:15 I like the rick-roll-I-get-knocked-down mashup. 00:51:33 ribitt ribitt 00:52:29 Now I figured out the .XI so I am fixing AmigaMML to support loading .XI instruments when in Extended mode (you can't use .XI in Amiga mode though). 00:53:36 zzo38: mods, trackers, chiptunes and generic 8-bit music and stuff like that? 00:54:03 boily: I don't know what you are asking; can you please be more specific? 00:55:11 sorry, I'm drawing a phantomatic blank here... I have this feeling I'm forgetting a word, but I'm not sure. 00:55:36 you are doing stuff that has to do with playing music through an Amiga emulator? 00:55:46 No. 00:55:49 ah! 00:55:58 what's an .xi then? 00:56:12 Other than being able to output in .MOD format, it hasn't anything to do with Amiga. 00:56:36 boily: is the word amortized hth 00:56:37 A .xi is a instrument file for Fasttracker. AmigaMML has two modes, Amiga mode (which is the original mode), and Extended mode. 00:56:58 oerjan: no. tdnh, bio. 00:57:12 zzo38: aaaaaaaaaaaah. ic. 00:57:44 biowat 00:57:47 AmigaMML is a program that you can write music and then compile into .MOD and .XM files. 00:58:22 oerjan: that did not help, but it's okay hth 00:58:33 zzo38: neat. 00:58:40 tdh thx hand 00:59:38 Does that stand for music markup language or music macro language? 00:59:47 MDude: Music macro language 00:59:48 `? hand 01:00:03 go HackEgo go! go HackEgo go! 01:00:12 you can do it! 01:00:13 hand? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:00:34 Thanks, I wasn't sure a quick search for AmigaMML dind't bring up much. 01:00:53 Also also both of those languages exist, being cofusingly similarly named. 01:00:55 `learn A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird hth 01:00:59 Learned 'hand': A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird hth 01:01:27 Well, this is the Redmine page for AmigaMML: https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml 01:01:28 imo s/ hth$/./ 01:01:44 In case it helps you at all. 01:01:50 `learn A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 01:01:54 Learned 'hand': A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 01:02:00 hthyaa 01:02:06 oerjan: also what's with the drugz jokez lately 01:02:22 shachaf: did you just pluralise y'all? 01:02:38 y'all y'all need to stop doing that 01:02:42 the plural of "y'all" is "all y'all" hth 01:02:53 hope this helps you at all 01:03:01 Isn't "y'all" already plural? 01:03:16 not when addressing one person hth 01:03:40 zzo38: you know of the euphemism threadmill? in english, second person pronouns have a plurality threadmill 01:03:45 It does, I'll check this out. 01:03:55 zzo38: all of you are correct :P 01:04:36 MDude: Yes I know, MML can refer to both, but in this case it is music macro language. There are other programs to do music macro language too, such as SakuraMML, ppMCK, CsoundMML, and probably others I don't know about. 01:04:37 which probably started as part of the euphemism threadmill, anyway 01:04:43 (To my mind, the "you" may be singular, the phrase isn't.) 01:05:14 I wonder how a threadmill works. 01:05:27 it mills threads. next! 01:05:30 I didn't know it was made for Windows, or that you made it. I am pleasantly surprised on both counts. 01:05:38 int-e it makes nylon thread hth 01:05:45 Do you put threads in and grind them, or is it cleverly arranged such that threads come out? 01:06:07 the way the mill cpu implements fork() will be revealed soon 01:06:24 MDude: Well, it isn't only Windows; it should be possible to compile AmigaMML for other systems too, if you have a C compiler. I don't actually know if it will actually run on a Amiga computer though. 01:06:24 I guess it would also make an excellent name for a scheduler. 01:06:40 next weekend in amsterdam 01:07:15 I was more worried it wouldn't run on anything but Amiga. Or Linux, since Linux was in the url. 01:07:21 is a spaghetti machine a threadmill? 01:07:26 But it turns out that isn't the case. 01:07:53 * oerjan suddenly regrets not spelling it spagetti 01:08:08 (which btw is the correct norwegian spelling.) 01:08:33 that would be a good pun for all the norwegian speakers in this channel 01:08:49 Linux Assist is just the Redmine server for FOSS projects; it isn't only for programs specific to Linux. 01:11:15 oerjan: I would have pronounces that as /spædʒetī/ 01:12:37 that's not norwegian hth 01:13:05 it's the correct pronounciation for that spelling if it were italian 01:13:22 (up to my knowlege of italian) 01:13:32 (we don't have /dʒ/ except in loanwords) 01:14:13 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:14:22 why the bar over the i 01:14:43 why the dot over the ı 01:14:57 oh, I forgot in IPA long vowels are supposed to have : not overbar 01:15:29 the i suffix is long? 01:15:33 /spega:tsi/ :D 01:15:39 you learn something every day 01:15:56 why is the i suffix long 01:16:03 boily: what language is that twh 01:16:16 s?! 01:16:17 boilese 01:16:39 shachaf: I don't know, but the one in spaghetti is when I hear italians say it... 01:17:02 (I live in Little Italy in Toronto) 01:17:33 i,i boilognese 01:17:46 oerjan: a parody of low-class country bums in then Eastern Townships. 01:17:50 s/then/the/ 01:18:03 OKAY 01:18:45 hyperloglog is p. nifty 01:19:24 shachaf: boilognese. he he he! I'll remember that one. 01:19:39 p. nifty? is that the name of a rapper? 01:20:45 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:21:30 yo, ma name's p. nifty, an' i'm pretty shifty, watch me spit these riffs like a tokyo drift king. 01:24:22 Are Tokyo drifters known to spit riffs? 01:24:42 (Do drifters drift? I suppose not.) 01:25:59 I don't think so, but it makes about as much sense as many real reaps I've heard... 01:26:06 s/ea/a 01:26:26 shit s/har/hear 01:27:14 Jafet: does an otter ott? 01:27:27 A ral rapper 01:27:58 boily: they ott to 01:28:28 Hmm the oldest woman in the world died again 01:30:38 Wow it isn't in the English news yet 01:32:15 hmm, I wonder how long it takes for a typical story to reach English-speaking news channels, and whether it depends on the language zone that the story comes from 01:32:15 * oerjan badges boily 01:32:45 oerjan is a badger? 01:33:07 * boily sings “mushroom mushroom ♪” 01:33:19 damn neat me to it 01:33:25 s/neat/beat 01:33:32 Hmm the oldest woman in the world died again <-- this keeps happening, they should do something to stop it hth 01:34:00 In this case it was ookawa misao, 117. 01:34:09 oerjan: Not necessarily. 01:34:18 oerjan: tdnh 01:34:25 -!- oerjan has set topic: RIP Ookawa Misao | I'm a fungot trapped in a channel full of weirdos | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 01:35:27 Having a cable box at least allow me to know what show is on at 3AM and stuff like that, because the TV guide doesn't list shows at that time. But when I watch television I use the VCR in the basement instead. 01:35:34 So the question is when will it reach Google news search? 01:35:50 But, I also like to learn how the diagnostics and stuff in the cable box is working anyways. 01:36:27 zzo38: I'll be at my parents' this weekend. remind me to hack their cable box then ^^ 01:36:34 meanwhile, 'night all! 01:36:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PREMOLAR CHICKEN). 01:36:42 it seems to be unconfirmed hth 01:36:43 On this strange day... http://news.asiantown.net/r/47594/mexican-woman-dies-at 01:37:04 Unfortunately I don't know how to hack it, but I can tell what some of the undocumented functions are at least; that can still help 01:37:39 ("oldest person on earth" must be one of the most unreliable (and short-lived...) attributions) 01:37:41 I have been noticing a significant delay between NHK and the anglospheric news when anything happens in Japan. 01:38:07 Are you in Japan these days? 01:38:31 Well, presumably. It's possible but unlikely you're watching NHK outside of Japan. 01:38:39 No but reading NHK online is good practice 01:38:48 Ah. Fair enough. 01:39:39 for example, I knew about the deal with Nintendo and DeNA five hours before it reached Google News 01:39:41 I am not at Japan but do want to order something; I bought a Famicom at a store locally and then I asked them next time if they can get the keyboard too so that I can buy from them, but they have not done. 01:40:02 That keyboard is pretty rare, isn't it? 01:40:02 Ah, wikipedia half-knows... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misao_Okawa (lists date of death, but has not otherwise been updated) 01:40:14 I don't know how rare it is. 01:40:36 At least it is relative to the Famicom. :) 01:41:35 Yeah but there are a ton of fake famicoms on the market 01:41:55 Yeah, but not really any that are trying to pass themselves off as real ones. 01:42:02 right 01:42:05 -!- adu has joined. 01:42:30 wikipedia now says "was" 01:42:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: RIP Misao Okawa | I'm a fungot trapped in a channel full of weirdos | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 01:43:21 God, if you consider Famiclones the damned things might be the single most common computing device on the planet. 01:44:05 -!- LordCreepity has joined. 01:44:15 6502 - the perfect eternal processor 01:44:45 (technically they use a modified version) 01:45:10 Famicom uses 6502 with a few traces cut off so that decimal mode won't work. 01:45:24 However, all other functions of NMOS 6502 including unofficial functions still work. 01:45:44 I thought they had decimal mode on there? 01:45:58 I coulda sworn the only modification was sticking some sound hardware on the die. 01:46:21 Oh, no, it is lacking. 01:46:22 I thought they removed the decimal mode to make room of something 01:46:23 Decimal mode doesn't do anything on Famicom; you can turn it on and off but it doesn't affect operation of arithmetic. 01:46:23 Huh. 01:46:40 has anyone in here ever taken a look at the instruction set of the EDSAC? 01:46:50 oren: No, all they did is cut a few traces so that decimal mode doesn't work. Other than that it actually is a 6502. 01:46:54 hm in 2-3 years there may not be anyone left alive born in the 19th century 01:47:01 They use the same mask. 01:47:49 Ah, yep, they literally removed 5 transistors in the mask. 01:47:55 115 years old seems a particularly dangerous age 01:48:23 *Aaaah!* 01:48:37 -!- mihow has joined. 01:48:46 There was a patent on the decimal mode that Nintendo did not want to license. 01:48:49 oerjan: well 9 "confirmed" people left... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_living_supercentenarians 01:49:08 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:49:35 If I said Θ(f) ≤ Θ(g), would people understand what I mean? 01:49:46 oerjan: i was recently like o_O upon seeing a pamphlet for a piano recital my grandmother gave in 1944 01:50:33 shachaf: if that is big theta notation yes. if that is an emoticon then no. 01:50:59 It is big theta notation. 01:51:09 If you look at the die shot you can see that it is literally a 6502's mask with apparently those transistors missing, and some sound hardware. That is really interesting. 01:51:13 But a non-standard use of it. 01:51:21 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:51:49 shachaf: you could just write f \in O(g) ... 01:51:59 (f = O(g), but I dislike that notation) 01:52:12 int-e: Yes, but then I have to remember what o/O/Θ/Ω/ω mean. 01:52:26 It's ridiculous. Why invent a new letter for each of those things? 01:52:37 You have to do that anyway, at least the three capital things. 01:52:42 big theta means a bound above and below right? 01:52:51 oren: right 01:53:03 It's much easier to remember what mean. 01:53:22 shachaf: not really, when it applies to sets. 01:53:24 Since I use those all the time. Why should this particular preorder get special symbols? 01:54:12 O above, Omega below, Th both 01:54:13 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:54:25 o/ω are useful too. 01:54:34 shachaf: I would go as far as calling Θ(f) ≤ Θ(g) *wrong*, because the standard definition A <= B is a <= b for all a in A and b in B. 01:54:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 01:54:53 That definition isn't very standard. 01:55:08 At least I can't remember ever seeing it. 01:55:31 If you want I can use a different symbol instead of Θ. The point is that I'm putting this partial order on the equivalence classes. 01:55:32 It's the standard way of extending relations to sets, if there is any standard way at all. 01:55:44 shachaf: I would agree more with O(f) \subseteq O(g). 01:56:14 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 01:56:24 What do you gain over f ∈ O(g) there? 01:56:35 I should get a LaTeX mode on my IME 01:56:44 ↓{Θ(f)} can mean what O(f) means, though admittedly that notation is less common. 01:56:52 shachaf: you can use O(f) = O(g) for f \in \Theta(g) 01:58:08 Oh, I see. You can just use ⊆ instead of ≤ and it gives you the order I want? 01:58:16 shachaf: So I think this would accomplish what you wanted: having only one of O/\Theta/\Omega to remember. 01:59:09 So you're saying, O(f) ⊂/⊆/=/⊇/⊃ O(g) 01:59:15 .-. 01:59:36 I'm not yet sure about o. 02:00:30 "f ∈ o(g)" just means "f ∈ O(g) and f ∉ Θ(g)", doesn't it? 02:00:51 mainly because there are non-monotone functions like f(n) alternating between n (for even numbers) and 0... 02:01:23 No, f \in o(g) means that the limit of f(n)/g(n) as n goes to infinity is 0. 02:01:44 Hmm. Maybe my other order was too simplistic too. 02:02:13 Which I currently believe is stronger that f \in O(g) and g \notin O(f). 02:02:57 taking that alternating function as f, and g(n) = n. 02:06:24 What are you saying about these f and g? 02:06:53 that f \in O(g) and g \notin O(g) and f \notin o(g). 02:07:11 ... 02:07:16 g \notin O(f) 02:09:35 OK. I guess so. 02:09:39 Which demonstrates that f \in o(g) is different from O(f) \subsetneq O(g). 02:09:56 Yes. Sigh. 02:10:11 Sorry, I didn't make the definitions. 02:10:22 You should be in #-lens or #-blah or one of the other channels that I was talking about this. 02:11:43 -!- LordCreepity has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:12:19 -!- LordCreepity has joined. 02:14:30 Perhaps, but I'm on too many channels already, and neither -blah nor -lens really interest me. 02:28:18 shachaf: Prismata is having an April Fools Day event 02:28:24 With 9 fake new units and 1 real new unit 02:34:01 I must have made a mistake in the .XI loading code because it doesn't quite work properly. 02:38:02 -!- LordCreepity has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:41:36 I fixed it 02:43:41 -!- LordCreepity has joined. 02:43:50 -!- LordCreepity has quit (Client Quit). 02:51:33 Now all of the updates are on the Redmine too. 02:55:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:55:46 I love /r/todayilearned's CSS 02:56:28 They're making every comment look like it's saying conspiracy stuff 02:58:10 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 02:58:58 !zjoust Iron_Will_and_a_Clear_Conscience >(-)*15>(+)*15(>++>--)*3>([(+)*15[-]]>)*21 02:58:59 infinitymaster.Iron_Will_and_a_Clear_Conscience: points -3.40, score 17.03, rank 35/47 02:59:19 yissssss 03:14:44 -!- MoALTz has joined. 03:16:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:16:55 -!- heroux has joined. 03:17:14 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:30:46 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:31:57 -!- Lyrr has joined. 03:32:03 -!- GeekDude has joined. 03:32:35 hi infinitymaster 03:32:45 Hello quintopia. 03:36:02 Is it weird that I enjoy Internet April Fools so much? 03:36:46 zzo38: thx tdh 03:36:53 no 03:36:59 its super fun 03:39:37 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:40:42 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:41:18 -!- Lyrr has left. 03:49:05 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:49:18 quintopia: What is thx tdh? 03:49:47 -!- GeekDude has joined. 03:50:22 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 03:51:46 -!- hjulle has joined. 03:54:17 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:56:58 Tagpro has an April Fools Day event, but it only runs the first 15 minutes of every hour 03:57:16 It is driving me crazy, I'm timing my life around it right now 03:57:40 Which, I think, involves me playing less tagpro than usual, ironically enough 03:59:19 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:07:58 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:15:02 -!- adu has joined. 04:15:16 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 04:18:57 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:22:56 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:25:23 -!- adu has joined. 04:29:04 -!- Decim has joined. 04:30:16 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:39:16 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:48:06 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 04:49:02 Uhn 04:49:34 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:52:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:57:05 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:22:47 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:23:53 I think my graphics card's video decoding is broken 05:24:06 Videos stopped working for me until I told Chrome not to use hardware decoding 05:27:40 -!- adu has joined. 05:41:16 https://com.google/ 05:41:35 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 05:48:29 -!- Welcome has joined. 05:48:29 -!- Decim has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:55:37 "Think of Smartbox as Google’s attempt to reinvent physical mail. It has smart folders, filters, and even apps. Oh, and you can take Smartbox with you, wherever you go." 05:55:40 Ugh I want this for real 06:04:41 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:19:31 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:25:04 -!- Welcome has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:47:22 -!- zadock has joined. 07:11:05 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:30:52 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:48:32 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:57:10 λ> typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy A) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy B) 07:57:10 True 07:57:10 λ> typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy A)) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy B)) 07:57:10 False 07:57:32 int-e, oerjan: Any ideas for what to do with that? 08:03:40 -!- cpressey has joined. 08:03:58 fungot: did you enjoy your outage? 08:03:58 cpressey: scheffig is the scheme48 native compiler coming along? ( sorry, i didn't 08:05:00 that's unfortunate 08:06:43 cpresshey 08:06:57 http://home.web.cern.ch/about/updates/2015/04/cern-researchers-confirm-existence-force 08:10:22 yes happy april 08:16:41 fungot, do you like april? 08:16:41 b_jonas: what did you do 08:20:55 haha 08:21:02 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:21:09 b_jonas played a 1. April prank on fungot! 08:21:09 mroman: i know im an asshole. 08:21:25 o_O 08:23:01 fungot: Well then you deserve the prank. 08:23:02 mroman: ok, here's a *great* example. ( there was a roshambo bot called iocane. :) the interpreter i've used. 08:36:41 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:42:33 -!- lambdabot has joined. 08:43:34 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:54:25 https://imasheep.hurrdurr.org/ 08:54:36 kernel.org redirects there ^^ 09:02:09 why? 09:03:31 it's because linux 4.0 is codenamed hurr durr ima sheep 09:03:49 sounds legit 09:04:09 no really it's true 09:05:06 linus started a test poll on google+ and one of the options was hurr durr ima sheep ^^ 09:06:26 https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=c517d838eb7d07bbe9507871fab3931deccff539 09:06:26 http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=c517d838eb7d07bbe9507871fab3931deccff539 09:06:32 whoops. 09:06:40 lifthrasiir: race condition 09:06:50 cpressey: IRC needs mutex 09:06:54 yes! 09:08:06 irc has +m 09:11:59 oh, so that's why it redirects! 09:12:02 nice 09:12:11 and the title has changed too 09:12:17 it says "The Hurr Durr Archives" 09:16:43 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: ...). 09:21:06 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:21:53 -!- lambdabot has joined. 09:49:24 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_kernel_names 09:51:19 those need to be displayed prominently upon boot 10:10:39 shachaf: well, are those types actually different so that it breaks gcast in connection with a type family? 10:10:59 They're different types with different kinds. 10:11:15 Which is why Proxy gets different TypeReps. 10:13:37 So it doesn't break gcast then. 10:13:51 I *believe* that's fine. 10:14:31 fsvo fine 10:14:40 I can't think of a way to write unsafeCoerce with it, at least. 10:18:16 A is () :: *, b is () :: Constraint 10:18:26 I'll post it on #9858. 10:20:06 typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: * -> *)) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: (* -> *) -> *)) is also true. 10:20:23 Oh, hmm. 10:20:32 wait. wrong ghc 10:20:51 Oh. 10:20:54 Yes, it's False. 10:21:17 Sorry, I have 7.10.1 installed but 7.8.3 is still my default. 10:26:34 -!- boily has joined. 11:06:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:20:54 all i'm saying is that if we have codata we might as well redefine our entire foundation of mathematics to use it. clearly, 1/0 is a corational. clearly, - can be defined over the corationals, and 1/0 - 1/0 = 0. 11:20:57 -!- roasted42 has joined. 11:21:24 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 11:21:24 -!- roasted42 has joined. 11:21:24 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 11:23:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IDENTIFIABLE CHICKEN). 11:23:53 cpressey: your use of "clearly" is clearly wrong, hth. 11:24:43 int-e: you didn't find that entertaining? 11:25:19 No, because I tried to make sense of "1/0 is a corational". 11:25:45 Failing that, annoyance was the dominating reaction. 11:26:41 :( 11:27:23 you make it sound like your failure to make sense of a concept is a bad thing 11:29:01 Sorry I tend to overanalyze things. 11:31:51 oh my. https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/issues/114 11:32:56 :) 11:33:15 I think I'll wait a day before closing that one :P 11:40:51 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:52:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:59:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:22:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:25:29 https://com.google/ <-- it doesn't change the link targets DISAPPOINTED 12:26:52 :k A 12:26:53 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘A’ 12:27:15 typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy A) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy B) 12:27:19 argh 12:27:41 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (() :: *)) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (() :: Constraint)) 12:27:43 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Constraint’ 12:27:43 Perhaps you meant ‘Contains’ (imported from Control.Lens) 12:27:50 ff 12:28:57 shachaf: i cannot say, i haven't installed 7.10 yet. what is preventing you from just slotting it into one of the versions at http://oerjan.nvg.org/haskell/TypeableExploits ? 12:29:15 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (() :: *)) 12:29:16 () 12:30:14 int-e: import GHC.Exts.Constraint plz twh 12:31:34 pesky sleeping americans 12:31:49 no such module 12:32:16 GHC.Exts (Constraint) 12:32:26 The real problem is that GHC.Exts is not trustworthy. So I have to wrap it... haven't bothered yet. 12:32:32 oh. 12:32:53 (It's easy, that's what lambdabot-trusted is for. But it 12:33:14 's not limited to changing a single line in Pristine.hs.) 12:33:17 hm they should make a GHC.Exts.Safe then 12:34:11 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9724 12:34:48 that one fell through the cracks (I forgot about it myself, too) 12:37:15 silly. https://com.google/ 12:37:35 int-e: 3rd time's the charm 12:38:06 @quote fugue 12:38:06 monochrom says: Welcome to #haskell, where your questions are answered in contrapuntal fugues. 12:38:11 `quote fugue 12:38:13 No output. 12:38:24 `quote canoon 12:38:26 `quote canon 12:38:28 No output. 12:38:28 No output. 12:38:39 `quote music 12:38:39 475) mmm these music samples are still so tasteful \ 552) i am sorry to disappoint you, but my musical taste is on the side abba, verdi, and celine dion. i know this may not be popular and that you would have preferred me to be a satanist. \ 1235) boily: the proc is invoked. before or after the evaluator transfers control 12:42:51 anyway ... I need to stop procrastinating, there's a deadline (review for a conference, so not a flexible one) today. 12:46:08 -!- GeekDude has joined. 12:55:56 "foo is a bar" is an inductive definition; "if B is a bar, expr(B) is a bar" is an inductive definition; if I and J are inductive definitions, "I; J" is an inductive definition 12:57:48 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to GibVent. 13:01:12 that allows non-well-founded definitions, & could stand to be improved 13:02:23 would be less snappy, tho 13:02:51 if it's non-well-founded surely it must be coinductive. 13:04:00 * oerjan might be half joking there 13:04:10 Perhaps y'all should apply soundiness to math: http://soundiness.org/documents/InDefense2.pdf 13:04:27 I've seen very few april's fool things today 13:04:51 (That soundiness thing isn't an April's fool, I'm afraid.) 13:05:23 oh they have their own domain now do they? 13:05:39 "well, that escalated" i can't do it 13:07:23 they have a Soundiness Statement Generator 13:08:24 In case you are too lazy to write, yourself, "Our analysis does not soundly handle X, Y and Z" 13:09:40 perhaps the next step is for them to write a Soundiness Analyzer which takes your analyzer and tells you just in what ways it is unsound 13:09:52 We present a soundy (i.e., unsound and incomplete) analysis of Brainfuck program termination, building on previous work in random number generation. 13:11:23 * oerjan briefly thinks it's a shame healthy ends with y already 13:11:42 i guess one could reverse the construction 13:12:22 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:12:36 Ooh. Right, "sound" is a noun. So a soundy thing would have to make noises. They do that quite successfully, I suppose. 13:13:26 int-e: a very smarty deduction 13:15:19 is there any way to get the type (() :: Constraint) without mentioning Constraint 13:15:55 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:15:59 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:16:56 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:17:15 i can't help thinking that if people were more used to the idea of a subset of a programming language, the whole soundiness thing would be moot. your analysis is sound on some subset of the language, that's all. not a hard concept, is it? 13:17:48 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:18:16 but people aren't UNused to that idea either, so i don't know. the various sub-industries, each has their own weirdness 13:18:25 weirdnesses 13:18:33 weirdiness hth 13:18:48 the weird is strong in oerjan. 13:19:13 HPC folks treat "code" as a count noun while almost everyone else treat it as a mass noun 13:19:22 *treats 13:22:16 Hmm, I would've expected that of cryptographers, but not of HPC. 13:23:13 Or cryptologists, more generally. 13:23:23 :k forall a. (Ord Int,a) ~ (Ord Int,()) => Proxy a 13:23:24 The second argument of a tuple should have kind ‘Constraint’, 13:23:24 but ‘()’ has kind ‘*’ 13:23:24 In a type in a GHCi command: 13:23:51 it looks impossible to get it to infer that () is a Constraint without putting it on explicitly :( 13:26:19 * oerjan hopefully checks if they got the Platform out yet 13:28:07 (nope) 13:40:13 seriously though i should probably look into codata more because it seems like you could do some really interesting things with reified codata 13:42:25 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:43:10 It's annoying when you start writing an answer to a 1 hour old stackoverflow question and someone else beats you by 10 seconds :( 13:44:02 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:44:02 to the victor, the rep points 13:44:21 well it _was_ a better answer than i was writing. 13:44:24 oerjan: You're just being a copycat! 13:44:42 * oerjan swats mroman -----### 13:44:43 `cats 13:44:57 `cat cat 13:44:58 meow meow meow meow 13:44:59 Meow~~ 13:45:06 they probably could've hopped on IRC and gotten an answer in 5 minutes (if they were willing to put up with the belittling) 13:45:44 maybe. it was a little subtle. 13:45:46 and the "why do you want to do that, anyway?" 13:46:28 it's actually sort of a type bug in the API interface of the haskeline interface, that means you have to give a stupid type annotation for a type you're about to throw away... 13:46:37 *haskeline package 13:47:37 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29390884/ambiguous-type-variable-with-haskeline-auto-completion#29392412 fwiw 13:48:28 fungot: Can you cook with a water cooker? 13:48:28 mroman: neither one of these days. but rack is close enough to programming any features you want, and what we still need more optimizations. 13:48:52 i am not sure fungot understands the concept of water 13:48:53 oerjan: esoerl for esoteric and erlang maybe?) 13:49:00 no, fungot, that is not it. 13:49:00 oerjan: you just don't take them if you used block for begin) depending on the ordering of the for clauses...) 13:49:08 `? water 13:49:11 water? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:49:47 `learn Water is a squishy substance that creeps along the floor and can suddenly fall from the heavens. 13:49:55 Learned 'water': Water is a squishy substance that creeps along the floor and can suddenly fall from the heavens. 13:50:07 ah well, the best part of stackoverflow is the list of trending questions on the right 13:50:45 i rarely look at that 13:55:49 There's rice cookers. 13:56:22 and steamers 13:56:23 interesting 13:56:44 You can get a fully functional kitchen with 200CHF. 13:57:28 That is, if you hand wash your dishes . 13:57:51 fungot: Do you hand wash your dishes? 13:57:51 mroman: http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord 13:57:55 uhm. ok 13:58:04 ^style 13:58:04 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:58:23 ^style darwin 13:58:23 Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy) 13:58:35 fungot: Your thoughts about morphic fields? 13:58:36 mroman: dr., on corals fnord themselves." " 27. on this account i went in yesterday, and was recopied before being sent to/ lacrymal glands. this salt was first exported in 1830: in one mid-styled plant, but was withdrawn on/ appointment :) royal commissioners, that ordinary doctors know little or nothing to tell you a fnord, not by means :) its ferment, 94, 95, and generally to/ male. 13:58:44 morphic fields even explain evolution! 13:59:41 `morphic field 13:59:42 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: morphic: not found 13:59:47 `? morphic field 13:59:54 morphic field? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:59:55 nts nts 14:02:33 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:03:20 ^style irc 14:03:20 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 14:03:32 fungot: Who's douglas adams? 14:03:33 mroman: right... it's gonna be. 14:06:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:20:20 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:21:04 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:35:55 zom3one point me to the best pranks 14:36:44 see #esoteric logs hth 14:36:56 ugh 14:36:58 i mean, http://home.web.cern.ch/about/updates/2015/04/cern-researchers-confirm-existence-force 14:37:13 i need a filter 14:38:28 nope nothing good in todays log 14:39:07 too critical for the world 14:42:08 oh typeRep already takes a Proxy of course 14:42:55 ok that does seem like unsafeCoerce is hard to get from this. 14:45:19 it's too damn hard to find flags from inside ghci 15:02:24 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:16:14 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:17:33 what flags? 15:21:17 in this case it was -fprint-explicit-kinds 15:21:56 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:22:23 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:24:48 oh my. https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/issues/114 <-- you just have to tell them the truth; that haskell has been surpassed by befunge for this use. 15:29:11 Sad but true 15:30:26 -!- clog has joined. 15:37:37 fungot is actually a UFAI that is simulating you. true fact 15:37:37 cpressey: it's done there just to show that 15:37:44 -!- roasted42 has joined. 15:37:44 ... see? 15:38:09 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 15:38:09 -!- roasted42 has joined. 15:38:09 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 15:50:03 fungot: what is your favourite joke today? 15:50:03 FireFly: given a list, a sublist isn't the same as its argument a quantified noun 15:50:34 fungot: I'm.. I'm not sure if I get it 15:50:35 FireFly: it does seem to be fnord. 15:52:22 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:52:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:53:46 look, if the singularity told you a joke, do you think you'd be able to understand it? of course you wouldn't. 15:54:10 Which singularity? 15:54:11 we are as like ants etc 15:54:17 mroman: well, fungot, obviously 15:54:17 cpressey: most of the stuff i do at work, and it seems i do :-o dear me. 15:58:14 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:59:05 oerjan: how about this? (I commented on that #114) 16:01:42 -!- variable has joined. 16:03:41 good, good 16:04:27 oerjan: pity, I can't assign the issue to the lambdabot organization :) 16:10:49 *grin* 16:10:52 http://com.google/ 16:19:04 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:25:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:32:18 4 hth 16:32:42 happy april fools day 16:33:01 is there any particular set of april 1 festivities I should be looking at? 16:33:32 well people keep linking http://com.google/ 16:34:28 oh, Google got their TLD after all? 16:34:43 IIRC they applied for like five or six TLDs for internal use only 16:35:25 com.google's their first use of it for much of anything. 16:35:32 (publicly, at least) 16:36:25 Microsoft announced MS-DOS Mobile. 16:42:02 Oh yeah, gentoo.org was pretty good too. 16:43:29 And it'll be to zzo's liking too... 16:43:36 gopher://gopher.gentoo.org/ 16:45:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Latër). 16:46:43 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:51:54 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:52:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:53:14 pikhq: I'm not sure, serving html + css + javascript over gopher just doesn't feel right 16:53:46 (the only thing that's "proper" gopher are the directory listings) 16:54:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 16:54:36 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 16:55:22 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 16:56:59 int-e: Alas. 16:58:47 -!- mihow has joined. 17:24:10 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:28:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:28:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:28:35 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 17:30:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:33:07 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:33:31 -!- mihow has joined. 17:35:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:35:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:39:11 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:39:40 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:40:07 -!- ^v^v has joined. 17:41:45 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42254&oldid=42233 * Rottytooth * (+15) /* T */ added Time Out 17:42:16 -!- zadock has joined. 17:43:06 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:43:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:43:28 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 17:45:33 -!- roasted42 has joined. 17:45:47 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 17:45:47 -!- roasted42 has joined. 17:45:48 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 17:46:43 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:50:52 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:54:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:54:11 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:03:39 hehe. "reason for data loss: guru meditation #00000025.65045338 press left mouse button to continue" 18:04:14 -!- oren has joined. 18:14:53 -!- oren has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:16:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:16:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:16:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 18:16:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:41:19 -!- oren has joined. 18:45:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:45:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:48:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:49:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:49:20 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: l8r, about 30m). 18:50:51 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:59:15 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:02:36 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:04:43 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 19:11:16 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:11:58 oerjan: All of the unsafeCoerces I know how to write involve taking the TypeRep of something other than the problematic type itself. 19:12:28 -!- cpressey has joined. 19:12:29 E.g. F (Proxy A) vs. F (Proxy B), which is really F (Proxy * A) vs. F (Proxy Constraint B) 19:16:06 ais523: a coworker of mine really liked the products ThinkGeek is advertising today, but I failed to distinguish them from their regular fare 19:16:28 cpressey: I seem to remember that at least one of their joke products was popular enough that they figured out how to manufacture it 19:16:54 -!- nys has joined. 19:26:39 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:27:27 -!- cpressey has joined. 19:30:01 fungot: want to hear a joke? not april fool's-related, i promise 19:30:01 cpressey: gimme link! _") will put a string into an s-exp ( the kind which is planted in the garden 19:30:58 great, now i have to write it into a pastebin somewhere i guess 19:31:31 this is what happens when you ask fungot things, sometimes it gives you an answer you don't want 19:31:31 ais523: i only found at the top level, should a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck and would chuck some amount of attention to the details. 19:31:32 fungot: do you plant strings in your garden? 19:31:33 FireFly: that's fine. that's what i mean is, you can probably get a good idea if it still sleeps 19:31:59 except now i'm distracted about thinkinzg about what kind of s-exps are planted in the garden. 19:32:04 some kind of riddle, obviously 19:32:09 the sort that you use to protect strings 19:32:49 i kind of want to implement tge EnCounter using fitbit's data streams 19:32:50 I find the idea of "chucking some amount of attention to the details" quite eery. 19:32:53 support for some sort of convoluted scarecrow, maybe 19:32:58 fungot: eerily 19:32:58 int-e: not many resources in scheme48's vm are shared, other than miranda and unlambda? 19:33:18 fungot: you got that right 19:33:18 int-e: prefer html? if so, that's fine, i'm sure 19:33:36 cpressey: now you have to paste your joke in HTML, for int-e 19:33:57 fungot: I want plain text. 19:33:57 int-e: even though i reported it. multiple times. :p they claim that not wanting a on the end 19:34:22 I guess that means I'm being overruled. By a bot. *pouts* 19:35:07 fungot, have you ever cut your finger when trying to wash up a kitchen knife and you held the blade to wash the handle? 19:35:07 b_jonas: or get a stamp. like " hey, i'm using safari 3.1.1 19:35:32 fungot: on what operating system? 19:35:32 b_jonas: i don't see where it transforms non-tail calls into tail calls if possible. don't force awkward programs on yourself to do some ffi stuff with it and need to be 19:37:06 fungot: need to be what? 19:37:07 olsner: ( letrec ( ( a () 19:37:14 `thanks fungot 19:37:14 fungot: shy gypsy slyly spryly tryst by my crypt 19:37:14 olsner: with the blue squares on the cover of the book is solely based on scheme 19:37:14 int-e: here's my article in english ( as in, a java system doesn't map nicely onto scheme. 19:37:24 Thanks, fungot. Thungot. 19:38:19 `thanks funk 19:38:24 Thanks, funk. Thunk. 19:39:18 `thanks whistle 19:39:19 Thanks, whistle. Thistle. 19:40:59 `thankx manx 19:41:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thankx: not found 19:41:01 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:41:11 `thanks manx 19:41:12 Thanks, manx. Thanx. 19:41:59 `found 19:42:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: found: not found 19:42:17 `thanks blunder 19:42:18 Thanks, blunder. Thunder. 19:42:51 -!- cpressey has joined. 19:42:59 This might become worse than edirc. 19:43:14 +,p 19:43:14 ? 19:43:27 `thanks, Thursday 19:43:29 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thanks,: not found 19:43:38 `thanks 5 19:43:39 Thanks, 5. T. 19:43:56 `thanks Thursday 19:43:57 Thanks, Thursday. Thursday. 19:44:03 haha, I was wondering what would happen if the argument was shorter than 2 chars 19:44:06 `run thanks "" 19:44:12 err 19:44:12 Thanks, biblegia. Thiblegia. 19:44:19 `` thanks "" 19:44:23 Thanks, wim. Thim. 19:44:28 `thanks cat 19:44:30 Thanks, cat. That. 19:44:31 hmm, is it picking random `words? 19:44:33 `words 20 19:44:35 cary ency acet mare brodworf aam jaokson overe paliquitin marta sre oee ymblicl hical ric smarque fini alto fig nisti 19:44:43 `` ls -a bin/\` 19:44:53 bin/` 19:44:59 `` ls -la bin/\` 19:45:00 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 18 Jan 6 17:40 bin/` 19:45:26 +0a 19:45:48 ++++ATH0 19:45:49 +. 19:45:58 +,p 19:45:58 +++ATH0 19:48:42 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:00:29 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:00:34 hehe, modem codes 20:01:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:02:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:02:46 -!- scarf has joined. 20:02:52 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:07:44 consider a universal turing machine U; it reads a turing machine description T, and simulates it, but while it is simulating it it also searches for a proof that T does not terminate; U terminates if T terminates OR if U finds a proof. 20:08:30 cpressey: we already have basically that on the wiki, I think 20:08:34 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 20:08:50 leading to a language which contains no provably nonterminating programs 20:08:55 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 20:09:20 but which is still probably TC despite that? 20:09:36 good, good 20:09:56 it's certainly TC, it just terminates "more often" than a naive UTM does 20:14:45 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:17:47 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:17:58 -!- ais523 has changed nick to no. 20:18:01 -!- no has changed nick to ais523. 20:22:54 -!- cpressey has joined. 20:23:09 ok, not technically TC 20:23:34 to make it strictly-dotted-i's-crossed-t's-TC, make it loop forever once it's found the proof 20:24:11 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:24:22 but if you're willing to accept "It doesn't terminate and here's why" as a substitute for not terminating, it's definitely close enough 20:24:39 cpressey: ah, that's a slightly different idea from the language I'm thinking of 20:25:17 i don't know which one you're thinking of, but it did sound similar... only non-provably-non-terminating programs don't terminate 20:25:24 cpressey: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Onoz 20:25:34 ty 20:26:17 btw, it occurs to me that if we have flexibility in how turing machines are defined, we can't avoid flexibility in what counts as "turing-complete" 20:26:41 "turing-complete" is a badly defined concept as-is 20:26:48 there are some things that definitely fall on one side or the other of the line 20:26:52 but there are also things that are much clsoer 20:28:03 well, "does the TM 'take input'" is one of the big obvious points of flexibility 20:28:39 we have the phrase "bf-complete" 20:28:45 -!- FrogLeg has joined. 20:28:46 and yeah, onoz is... close... but not exactly what i was thinking... i think 20:29:00 right, it doesn't match your description exactly 20:29:40 ok, so, brainfuck <-> turing machines with input and output tapes 20:30:45 even that is a bit dicey 20:31:24 well... ok... maybe not; what i was thinking of was unary. i think that just affects complexity, not computability 20:31:37 but wow does it ever affect complexity, ftr 20:31:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:32:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:33:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:33:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:36:58 anyway, now that i have the construction, all i need to do is... find the proof it's used in 20:38:59 -!- FrogLeg has quit (Excess Flood). 20:39:23 -!- FrogLeg has joined. 20:39:56 -!- nycs has joined. 20:41:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:42:02 -!- mihow has joined. 20:53:48 I do not understand this "GLooP" language. none of the wikis describe it (except to say it goes along with BLooP and FLooP.) the CLooP page seems to suggest it has an infinite parallel operation. 20:54:58 -!- FrogLeg has set topic: This Topic is now Hot. B===D~ B===D~ B===D~ B===D~ B===D~. 20:56:14 yeah thanks 20:56:56 specifically, I don't see what the conditions for CLooP's infinite parallel "join" are. do all the (infinite number of) "threads" have to terminate? 20:57:03 cpressey: GLooP was defined by Douglas Hofstader as "more powerful than FLooP, but computable" 20:57:09 if not, how many threads have to terminate? 20:57:13 he concluded it didn't exist 20:57:35 if it's "all threads", the CLooP implementation of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainhype will... just not work 20:57:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:58:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:58:48 can someone put the topic back to something containing the log URLs? 20:58:53 I tried to but my client crashed 20:59:14 -!- cpressey has set topic: RIP Misao Okawa | I'm a fungot trapped in a channel full of weirdos | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:59:15 -!- FrogLeg has set topic: http://meatspin.com/. 20:59:19 also, FrogLeg, Freenode has a rule about being open about logging in channels 20:59:22 -!- cpressey has set topic: RIP Misao Okawa | I'm a fungot trapped in a channel full of weirdos | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:59:24 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 20:59:31 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b FrogLeg!*@*. 20:59:32 -!- ais523 has kicked FrogLeg trolling. 20:59:34 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:59:38 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 20:59:53 * Taneb hello 20:59:57 -!- cpressey has set topic: RIP Misao Okawa | I'm a fungot trapped in a channel full of weirdos | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 20:59:59 benefit of the doubt with one relatively harmless topic change 21:00:06 hope i got that right 21:00:13 no benefit of the doubt with shock site links 21:00:27 Good policy 21:01:30 ais523: so DH *defined* GLooP to be "more powerful" without actually, uh, constructively defining how it was intended to go about that? 21:01:44 that would explain absence of descriptions of it 21:02:34 cpressey: I think he intended it to not exist 21:02:41 and brought it up as a teaser 21:02:50 yeah, ok 21:04:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:04:09 i posit that CLooP's "GLooP mode" does not actually add any more power to the language, and specifically, it can't be used to implement Brainhype, and i guess i'll edit the page at some point if i feel like putting in the effort, ugh 21:04:21 It has been a while since I have read GEB 21:04:28 cpressey: that non-termination proving TM is interesting, but it still runs afoul of diagonalization. (let U(x,y) be a TM that terminates with 1 if the TM x accepts y, and with 0 if it could prove that x(y) does not terminate. Then consider M(x) that first executes U(x,x), terminates if it halts with 0, and loops forever if it halts with 1. Then U(M,M) will not terminate, assuming that th... 21:04:34 ...e formal system used by U for proving nontermination is sound. 21:05:05 I guess you have the escape hatch that soundness of that system is not provable 21:05:55 But in that sense we cannot hope to prove anything of interest (so, at least as strong as Peano arithmetic) at all. 21:09:00 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:09:54 -!- cpressey has joined. 21:12:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:12:41 int-e: I'm not sure what you're getting at 21:13:23 As I said, if T doesn't terminate, and there if no proof of this fact, U doesn't terminate 21:13:23 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:13:47 cpressey: "only non-provably-non-terminating programs don't terminate" <-- the notion of nonprovability also exists on a meta level. 21:13:50 *is no proof 21:14:50 I have no idea what you mean by "a meta level", sorry. 21:15:01 My wording there may've been sloppy 21:15:05 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:15:29 It's the same kind of reasoning that says that Gödel's sentence is false in the standard model of Peano arithmetic, provided that Peano arithmetic is consistent. 21:15:40 The only T's for which U doesn't terminate are those for which U cannot find a proof (of T's non-termination) 21:17:00 I'm still not sure what you're getting at, and I'm getting the impression you think I think U is more powerful than it actually is...? 21:17:45 No. The whole point here is that I can reason about programs in ways that U can't. 21:18:32 int-e: that would seem to be a dreadfully strong claim w.r.t. the computationalist theory of mind... 21:18:44 That's what I did, I described a program that will not terminate (under consistency assumptions), but that U cannot prove nonterminating. 21:19:09 and for that program, U doesn't terminate -- as per my definition -- and...? 21:19:25 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42255 * SuperJedi224 * (+960) Created page with "The '''Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language''' (HSPAL) is a programming language by [[User:SuperJedi224|SuperJedi224]] in which a program is represented by a list of ..." 21:20:03 cpressey: But we can prove that it doesn't terminate, whereas U can't. (Honestly, it's the consistency assumption that will bite me in the end.) 21:20:15 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42256&oldid=42255 * SuperJedi224 * (+11) 21:21:27 [wiki] [[Mmmm()]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42257&oldid=42235 * SuperJedi224 * (+18) 21:21:51 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42258&oldid=42256 * SuperJedi224 * (+45) 21:22:51 [wiki] [[Turing Script]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42259&oldid=42141 * SuperJedi224 * (+18) 21:23:23 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42260&oldid=41337 * SuperJedi224 * (+16) 21:23:34 cpressey: And no, it doesn't contradict the computationalist theory of mind either. We can implement that reasoning in a Turing machine, but it will be a different one from U. 21:23:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:23:57 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:24:18 int-e: it's not necessarily meta-logic 21:24:45 you can just throw in more axioms to any logical system 21:25:05 since any TM will only include finitely many axioms encoded, you can always make a "stronger" termination-checker TM 21:25:36 [wiki] [[HSPAL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42261 * SuperJedi224 * (+59) Redirected page to [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] 21:25:58 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42262&oldid=42254 * SuperJedi224 * (+12) /* H */ 21:26:59 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42264&oldid=42258 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) 21:27:32 int-e: groan 21:27:45 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42265&oldid=42264 * SuperJedi224 * (+6) 21:30:07 -!- cpressey_ has joined. 21:30:52 cpressey: But we can prove that it doesn't terminate, whereas U can't. <-- yes, U just tries forever, and fails to find a proof, consistent with its definition 21:31:51 other than thinking you've misread my definition, I can't see what the problem is here. 21:32:20 what about U makes it incapable of taking any proof strategy that an arbitrary TM could take? 21:32:34 I honestly can't see anything stopping it from that 21:33:17 Ultimately it's because soundness of formal systems is so elusive. 21:33:33 U is no more sound than any other UTM 21:33:55 it just terminates on some T's that a naive UTM wouldn't terminate on 21:34:13 apologies if I was giving some other impression. I didn't think I was. 21:34:59 <-- yes, U just tries forever, and fails to find a proof, consistent with its definition ← that was the basic idea behind onoz too 21:35:01 Look, all I did was take your innocent use of "provable" and apply it to a formal system that is not embedded in U. 21:35:21 sorry, should've said "provable by Turing machine", I guess 21:35:54 ais523: yes, onoz is basically this with a few small twists (it checks inside loops only, for example) 21:36:00 (Though it could be embedded in a different Turing machine, U') 21:36:08 int-e: there, I disagree 21:38:48 BT certainly isn't helping, tonight 21:39:02 Sorry, but then you're missing the point of Gödel's incompleteness. 21:39:57 Can you phrase it in terms of the Halting Problem, instead of Goedel's incompleteness? 21:40:21 there's no concept of "provable by Turing machine" without saying _which_ Turing machine. 21:40:22 U will either have embedded an inconsistent nontermination prover (and thus there will be Turing machines that actually halt, but that U will declare as non-terminating) or one can *construct* a non-terminating program from U that U cannot show non-terminating, because non-provability rests on a consistency assumption, and consistency of the systems can't be proved inside the system. 21:41:21 cpressey_: I did that already above: 21:41:24 Let U(x,y) be a TM that terminates with 1 if the TM x accepts y, and with 0 if it could prove that x(y) does not terminate. Then consider M(x) that first executes U(x,x), terminates if it halts with 0, and loops forever if it halts with 1. Then U(M,M) will not terminate, assuming that the formal system used by U for proving nontermination is sound. 21:42:44 cpressey_: Note that this implies that M(M) does not terminate, but U cannot prove that fact. 21:44:04 OK -- give me a second 21:44:04 "one can *construct* a non-terminating program from U" -- let's call this Y 21:44:04 you feed Y to U 21:44:18 Y is M(M). 21:44:32 at 22:43 I said "OK -- give me a second" but BT is just awful tonight 21:44:58 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:45:43 @time cpressey_ 21:45:46 Local time for cpressey_ is Wed Apr 1 22:47:42 2015 21:45:59 test 21:46:22 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:46:25 ok 21:46:26 hi 21:46:29 cpressey_: you're not that lagged accordingly to lambdabot 21:46:44 -!- ^v^v has joined. 21:47:15 @time cpressey_ 21:47:16 23:47:44 @time cpressey_ ==> Local time for cpressey_ is Wed Apr 1 22:47:42 2015 <-- time travel, but maybe *I*'m lagging... 21:47:36 ok _now_ it is lagging. 21:47:43 @time oerjan 21:47:44 Local time for oerjan is Wed Apr 1 23:49:44 2015 21:47:47 -!- boily has joined. 21:48:12 CTCP PING reply from int-e: 0.855 seconds 21:48:20 -!- cpressey_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:49:01 -!- cpressey has joined. 21:49:19 int-e: let's assume uses ZFC for its proof system. we don't know it's consistent, of course 21:49:21 FireFly: I'm sorry btw, I intended it to be an innocent remark, I didn't expect this to result in such a lengthy string of misunderstandings on various levels. 21:49:40 int-e: i'm also going to assume we both know what Y refers to 21:49:45 now, you feed Y into U 21:49:47 what happens? 21:50:30 the "we don't know it's consistent, of course" rather ruins it, i think. 21:51:12 look, if ZFC's inconsistent we'll just find a ZFC' that we think is probably not inconsistent and carry on 21:51:25 if ZFC's inconsistent, 1 = 0 21:51:36 cpressey: Well, U either terminates because Y terminates, or it terminates because it has proven that Y doesn't terminate, or it runs forever. 21:51:43 so if you're going to say "ah but ZFC might be inconsistent" there's no bloody point 21:52:05 int-e: and that was not captured by my definition... how exactly? 21:52:32 cpressey: but in the first case Y cannot terminate. and in the second case Y actually terminates (so either the system is inconsistent or this cannot happen). 21:53:06 I refined your definition: "Let U(x,y) be a TM that terminates with 1 if the TM x accepts y, and with 0 if it could prove that x(y) does not terminate." 21:54:04 (I also spearated the Turing machine from its input because it's technically more convenient. This is not essential.) 21:54:31 why would U prove that Y doesn't terminate (the second case, as you called it) if Y does in fact terminate? 21:55:42 cpressey: because the formal system used for proving non-termination might be inconsistent; classically that means it can prove anything at all; I expect that intuitionistically it's almost as bad (but I'd have to think about this a bit more) 21:56:13 -!- MDude has joined. 21:56:26 ok, I am, for practical purposes, assuming it's using ZFC and assuming that ZFC is consistent. so the second case cannot happen. 21:56:42 Right. Then only the third case remains. 21:56:58 Right. 21:57:07 I.e., Y doesn't terminate and U(M,M) cannot prove this. 21:57:17 I still fail to see the problem. Unless the problem is "Oh noes, ZFC might not be consistent." 21:57:18 (In its internal non-termination prover.) 21:58:58 There is no problem, just a strange tangle that is not quite a loop: We have a program that we know (provably, assuming consistency; this is and will always be the weak point) doesn't terminate, but the formal system embedded in U is too weak to show that. 22:00:27 OK, then there's no problem. 22:01:53 I mean, I might be a brain in a vat, too. I don't usually worry about such things. 22:07:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:09:20 int-e: are you *sure* you can't rephrase your point in terms of the HP? because I would find that a lot easier to understand. 22:10:57 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:12:42 > flip showsTypeRep "" $ typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy ()) 22:12:43 "()" 22:13:00 > flip showsTypeRep "" $ typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy ())) 22:13:02 "Proxy * ()" 22:13:07 http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=710 seems to strongly suggest this sort of thing can all be done with TM's. i've only skimmed it so far though. 22:14:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:14:03 No, I think I need diagonalization, i.e. the proof method used for showing that the halting problem is undecidable. 22:14:53 In any case I generally find the former easier than trying to shoe-horn proofs to only use the latter. 22:15:19 @time tswett 22:15:20 Local time for tswett is Wed Apr 1 22:17:21 2015 22:15:35 [18:17:21] Local time for tswett is Wed Apr 1 22:17:21 2015 22:15:56 nice, your client replies in UTC :) 22:15:58 Apparently my IRC client disagrees with itself as to the time. 22:16:32 @time djanatyn 22:16:32 Local time for djanatyn is Wed, 01 Apr 2015 15:18:33 -0700 22:16:33 * int-e needs a script to hook into the ctcp time replies. 22:16:41 Hmmm. 22:16:43 @time NickServ 22:17:18 So, you know lenses in functional programming? 22:17:24 Those can be interpreted in any category, right? 22:17:56 Well, any category with... binary products? 22:18:13 Has anyone actually studied those? 22:19:01 tswett: are you thinking of products or tensors? 22:19:25 Just plain ol' categorical products, I'm pretty sure. 22:19:38 A lens consists of arrows A -> B and (A * B) -> A such that blah blah blah. 22:20:53 Lenses can be lots of things. 22:20:55 edwardk: i think the above question is for you ^ 22:21:21 But type-changing lenses are much nicer than the other kind. 22:21:34 And type-changing is really some sort of naturality. 22:21:49 Anyway this has been discussed in #haskell-lens 22:23:02 `quote lens 22:23:08 895) Taneb: STOP TRYING TO GET LENS INTO EVERYTHING Bike: You should use lens! NEVER shachaf: i'm getting mixed messages here \ 984) Bike: I think you're ready to learn about lens. oh god fiora help somebody help anybody \ 1186) in that thread Taneb admits to his sins 22:25:57 Arrows g : A -> B and s : (A * B) -> A such that g . s : (A * B) -> B is the right projection, s . (A * g) . (\x -> (x,x)) : A -> A is the identity, and s . (s * B) . (\(x,y) -> (x,y,y)) : (A * B) -> A is s. 22:26:18 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:30:54 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:35:56 @ask Bike where are you? 22:35:57 Consider it noted. 22:37:37 he seems to be online 22:38:01 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 22:41:13 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:43:04 -!- augur has joined. 22:59:19 [wiki] [[User:Vriskanon]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42266&oldid=42224 * Vriskanon * (+0) /* Vriskanon */ Typo 23:21:30 -!- oren has joined. 23:25:20 today my only achievement was eating 500g of bacon 23:27:18 i wonder how many calores that is. 23:28:12 > 541 * 5 23:28:13 2705 23:28:21 excellent 23:35:33 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:36:53 helloren. baconinging? 23:36:59 (bacon binge. baconinge.) 23:37:43 -!- Decim has joined. 23:38:04 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 23:38:58 -!- Lymee has joined. 23:39:42 Good evening, boily. 23:40:39 Good evening, shachaf. 23:42:04 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:55:49 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:56:57 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:58:50 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:59:35 -!- Lymia has joined. 2015-04-02: 00:07:05 * boily pokes Lymia in the connection 00:08:09 boilymia 00:09:03 along with boilognese, boilamia. 00:09:41 what about some boilabaisse 00:10:31 alexandrelrod 00:11:06 what's an elrod? 00:11:58 relrod: You may be more qualified to answer that than I am. 00:13:46 http://www.globalsino.com/EM/image1/3911.gif ??? 00:14:40 ah that must be the machine cern used to find the force 00:17:17 * relrod looks up 00:18:13 what did I do :( 00:18:19 AH! 00:18:33 somebody named relrod. 00:18:51 * relrod puts bucket over head. Where?! 00:18:53 relrod: Apparently you were instrumental in finding the force? 00:18:56 relrod: uhm. hello? what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 00:20:00 * oerjan checks relrod's lilaxity, just because. 00:20:20 boily: 39.111748, -76.775635; -4 lbs. 00:21:00 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:21:02 * oerjan determines it to be zero on account of the redhat cloak. 00:21:42 stalker ;) 00:22:04 You never answered the question about elrods. 00:22:42 shachaf: what's a shachaf? :P 00:22:52 a seagull hth 00:22:53 relrod: i am not a stalker and i _totally_ didn't find your picture on github. 00:23:12 oerjan: onoes 00:23:37 oerjan: did you find my picture on github twh 00:23:44 shachaf can confirm i'm not a stalker hth 00:23:55 shachaf: you've linked your picture many times 00:24:27 i,i http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13786158/portraits/shachaf.png 00:25:35 as proof that i'm not a stalker, this is totally the first time i check out shachaf's github account. unless i've forgotten. 00:26:10 oerjan: it's called "cloning" in the git nomenclature hth 00:27:55 i think we are confusing denotations again. 00:28:05 oerjan: strangely, you're not in the Wisdom Conspirators. 00:28:06 relrod: so how 'bout that bug #9858 00:28:27 i don't think i've ever used git directly, anyway. 00:28:45 wait, relrod is related to #9858? 00:29:09 what's 9858? 00:29:52 shachaf: i am tending to believe that that typeRep confusion you found is harmless, because there is no function to cast without comparing actual kinds or embedding in another type. 00:30:11 which i assume was your and int-e's conclusion too 00:30:13 That's what I'm tending to believe also. 00:30:31 But not to the point where I'd trust an unsandboxed -XSafe GHC. 00:30:51 i think we stopped doing that anyway. 00:30:58 pretty sure int-e did. 00:31:13 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:43 -!- GibVent has changed nick to GeekDude. 00:31:55 Sure. 00:32:22 of course all it would take is one function which _doesn't_ compare kinds, but there seems to be little reason to define one. except perhaps to fake kind equality testing... 00:32:49 There could be some serialization thing. 00:32:56 I don't know. 00:32:56 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:36:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: building NetHack 4 on Windows). 00:36:34 boily: wait what's the Wisdom Conspirators 00:37:04 oerjan: do you really expect an answer, given that you're not among them 00:37:42 oerjan: I can't remember if you didn't not have a github account. if you don't, could you please point me to it? 00:37:45 boily: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858 the bug we found that helped hold up ghc release for a month. and which shachaf just discovered hasn't been entirely fixed 00:37:59 oooooh. that. 00:38:09 (actually we didn't find it, just probed the consequences) 00:38:17 well, i found it 00:38:21 but someone else found it first 00:38:35 boily: i have no github account, i'm pretty sure i just said i haven't used git 00:39:47 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7258 00:39:49 therefore the reason for you perfectly logical prolonged absence from the List. 00:39:54 spj is so jolly 00:40:35 bah i didn't get goldfire's reply on Cc: 00:41:17 I wonder whether there are any other places where this * ~ Constraint thing is exposed? 00:44:46 [wiki] [[User:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42267&oldid=42229 * SuperJedi224 * (+56) 00:45:07 i don't think that's what's happening, just made a comment 00:45:26 it's true but not really relevant to constructing TypeReps 00:45:52 oerjan: It's pretty strange that () :: Constraint's TypeRep is "ghc-prim GHC.Tuple ()" 00:47:27 they totally need to expose those Constraint entities somewhere people can get them even unapplied, like (,) 00:47:37 Yes. 00:47:44 shachaf: what about #9858 :( it's not my fault, I swear 00:47:46 * relrod clicks link 00:48:07 -!- variable has joined. 00:48:15 relrod: I didn't think any of these things were your fault, but you seem very defensive for some reason. 00:48:24 Maybe it is your fault? 00:48:48 shachaf: you act like I know enough about GHC internals to be able to have an impact here. :P 00:49:01 * relrod really, really should learn more about how GHC actually works :/ 00:49:02 -!- Lymee has joined. 00:49:04 I thought you were all about GHC? 00:49:29 shachaf: Naw. I do Haskell Infra stuff, but haven't gotten into GHC stuff yet. 00:49:30 I want to 00:49:30 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:50:07 Well, I don't know how GHC works either. 00:51:08 shachaf: Lately I'm on a type theory thing. Trying to work with people in the math department at my school and have them let me do an Individual Study in type theory. 00:51:27 Because I think it would be a lot of fun 00:51:40 And I'm going to learn it anyway, so why not get some credit for it ;) 00:59:55 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:01:20 `? relrod 01:01:36 relrod? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:02:34 `learn A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force. 01:02:44 Learned 'relrod': A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force. 01:05:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:06:20 -!- mihow has joined. 01:06:40 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 01:16:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: more Windows builds). 01:26:27 -!- Lymee has changed nick to Lymia. 01:30:05 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NAUTICAL CHICKEN). 01:31:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:37:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:40:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 01:40:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:48:55 -!- Lymee has joined. 01:49:00 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:52:20 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 02:01:23 -!- Decim has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:07:05 shachaf: you've been til'ed http://www.reddit.com/r/haskelltil/comments/313n72/the_numdecimals_extension_lets_you_write_integers/ 02:07:37 oerjan: wasn't that dmwit 02:08:04 oh wait was it the binary one you did? 02:08:18 I guess I did implement this. 02:08:22 dmwit was the one who asked for it. 02:08:56 also what's this subreddit thing 02:09:41 i guess if you actually log in following the small ones isn't so painful 02:13:20 it was advertised on haskell recently 02:13:34 it's only my second smallest 02:13:41 (guess which is the smallest one) 02:13:59 also it's the large ones which are painful hth 02:14:30 * oerjan doesn't actually use the front page, which means it would probably be painful if he had more subreddits than fit in the menu 02:14:47 tdnhaa 02:14:54 which part 02:15:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:15:43 i don't want to use the front page because then the largest ones that i almost never visit would swamp the small ones which i follow closely. i think. 02:16:22 the part preceding the hth 02:16:42 another thing that isn't helpful is 35s roundtrip latency to 8.8.8.8 02:16:50 OKAY 02:17:10 Anyway, the painful part is having a lot of them, since then I have to click them all. 02:17:19 If everyone puts everything in the main one then there's no problem. 02:17:24 (Except that the main one is getting noisy.) 02:17:32 (has gotten) 02:17:47 you can make subreddit combinations, i hear 02:18:00 That's true. /r/haskell+haskelltil 02:18:28 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:18:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:18:53 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 02:18:57 (the smallest one is /r/esolangs hth) 02:19:23 * copumpkin rubs eyes 02:19:25 holy shit 02:19:34 shachaf is tweeting, stop the press 02:19:35 copumpkin: whoa whoa whoa 02:19:38 don't be like that :'( 02:19:43 copumpkin: hm? 02:19:43 i was hoping to keep it quiet 02:19:48 oh 02:19:50 I mean 02:19:56 fahcahs is not tweeting 02:20:01 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:20:03 err, I flipped it too much 02:20:09 anyway, disregard everything 02:20:28 twitter used to email me from n-funpuns=...@postmaster.twitter.com 02:21:50 copumpkin: Do you know how Twitter lists work? 02:22:05 they forgot about that feature 02:22:05 Such a mess. 02:22:15 I use that feature instead of the "follow" feature. 02:22:17 they added it years ago and have been progressively de-emphasizing 02:22:20 So my followee list isn't public. 02:22:26 It only sort of works. 02:22:52 oh interesting 02:23:12 you actively mark it as not public? or just have 0 and it shows up that way? 02:23:30 It's separate from the following feature. 02:23:44 I made a list and I look at that list instead of the front page. 02:24:03 ah 02:24:20 But I want to follow conversations including ones where people reply to me, and it doesn't seem to work very well for that. I managed to add myself to the list but it still doesn't do it. 02:24:24 Oh well. 02:42:03 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:49:04 ais523: it was inevitable that someone would reinvent feather in haskell https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2015-April/118905.html 02:49:55 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 02:49:58 it is clearly a terrible idea for me to follow this link 02:50:00 * ais523 does so anyway 02:50:23 *MWAHAHAi mean, not at all. 02:50:38 "Bearing in mind our model of a space-time continuum of hackage dependences, the solution emerges — enforce immutability, but allow retroactive mutation." oh good, they came to the same conclusion as me without necessarily being able to implement it 02:50:46 `? feather 02:50:47 feather? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:51:24 `? ais523 02:51:25 Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 02:51:38 wait, how does shachaf not know what feather is 02:51:48 and why isn't it in the wisdomdb, I thought it was 02:51:57 i think he's just checking what current wisdom on feather is 02:52:06 I've seen it mentioned but I don't remember if I ever knew what it is. 02:52:12 Unless it's a thing where the joke is that no one says what it is. 02:52:27 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather 02:52:34 the joke /became/ that but it wasn't the original joke 02:54:03 the esolangs page is quite a good description 02:54:10 both the idea of the language itself, and why everyone avoids talking about it 02:55:06 Speaking of which, Broken Age Act 2 will come out this month. 02:56:05 gah, now I'm on the verge of thinking about Feather again 02:56:09 `quote Feather 02:56:10 865) -!- ais523 has parted #esoteric ("someone is going to mention Feather, I know it"). \ 866) i don't even know anything about feather and i'm getting sick of the time travel jokes \ 896) in Smalltalk, as in Feather, in order to do I/O, you must first create the universe ais523, it seems quite capable of I/O... GUI is a fo 02:56:24 Programming language based on the principles of metacybernetics. 02:56:28 Who are the time travelers? 02:58:53 in Feather, everything is immutable, but you can retroactively change what an object was when it was created 02:59:23 or to think about it another way, you have a "clone" operation, and the result of the clone has a method that lets you retroactively change what the clone function returned 02:59:30 * function looks at ais523 02:59:37 this much is easy to implement, it's basically a wrapper around call/cc 02:59:49 then things start getting confusing very quickly 02:59:58 -!- function has left ("/dev/null is full"). 03:00:01 -!- function has joined. 03:01:35 `` echo -ne '#!/bin/sh\ngrep -P -i -n "$1" quotes | cut -d ':' -f 1 | xargs\n' > bin/quotenums; chmod +x bin/quotenums 03:01:38 No output. 03:01:39 `quotenums feather 03:01:40 865 866 896 897 03:01:57 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 03:16:15 -!- idris-bot has joined. 03:22:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Retroactively going to bed 1 1/2 hour ago, maybe.). 03:51:10 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:00:05 -!- function has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 04:00:21 -!- variable has joined. 04:03:59 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:13:55 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:15:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:19:45 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:25:33 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:27:39 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:41:56 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:42:18 -!- ais523 has quit. 04:42:52 -!- g2watson has joined. 04:43:21 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:44:51 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:45:17 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Idunnowhy9000 * New user account 04:48:12 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:56:42 -!- variable has joined. 05:03:23 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:03:34 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 05:04:24 My laptop currently is in pieces in front of me, as i try to fix whatever's wrong without making things worse 05:04:45 I think im failing but no way to know until i put it back together 05:04:53 -!- v4s has joined. 05:12:05 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:16:04 -!- Lymia has joined. 05:16:31 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 06:00:04 Does this thick black cable look damaged? http://i.imgur.com/ZqNmL4t.jpg 06:07:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 06:07:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:12:26 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 06:18:36 folks 06:19:13 !zjoust Iron_Will_and_a_Clear_Conscience >(-)*16>(+)*15(>+>-)*3>([(-)*15[+]]>)*21 06:19:14 infinitymaster.Iron_Will_and_a_Clear_Conscience: points -3.45, score 16.57, rank 39/47 (-4) 06:19:40 gross 06:21:43 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 06:39:44 Maybe you need to take a step back here 06:40:05 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:47:44 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:16:59 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:18:26 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 07:31:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:34:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:35:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:36:26 -!- zadock has joined. 07:39:08 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:39:22 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 07:46:59 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:48:23 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 07:48:24 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:48:39 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 07:55:33 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:07:38 http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/04/02/0227211/uk-forces-microsoft-to-adopt-open-document-standards 08:07:41 neat 08:36:37 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 08:38:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:39:12 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 08:42:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:00:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:03:18 Is there a browser that runs in x11? 09:08:07 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 09:21:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:21:53 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:22:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:04:02 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:31:26 -!- hailer has joined. 11:41:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:44:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:48:32 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:48:47 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 11:54:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:55:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:57:07 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 11:57:20 -!- hjulle has joined. 12:00:33 -!- stuntaneous_e has joined. 12:01:00 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:03:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:06:52 -!- gamemanj has joined. 12:07:24 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:12:52 -!- gamemanj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:12:55 -!- stuntaneous_e has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:16:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 12:16:36 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 12:16:36 -!- GeekDude has joined. 12:39:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:43:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:01:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:11:21 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:11:59 you know how ia64 (also known as itanium) is a different cpu architecture from x86_64 (also known as intel-64 or amd64 or x64)? these names will confuse some more newbies in the future. 13:13:04 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 13:13:15 so anyway, now we have another similar set of confusing architecture names: http://hurrdurr.org hosts the Hurr Durr kernels, also know as Linux, not to be confused with Hurd which is a different kernel. 13:13:24 :k Dict 13:13:26 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Dict’ 13:14:00 aren't you about a day late 13:14:10 yes, I am 13:14:15 but hurrdurr.org is still alive 13:14:20 but... but... x86 has more bits than x64 13:14:24 64 only has 64 13:14:28 x86 has way more 13:14:28 it's just that kernel.org no longer redirects to it 13:14:33 namely 86 bits 13:15:42 Which lets me count to 77371252455336267181195263 13:17:34 mroman: yes, there's a quote about that in http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1558 13:18:59 oh interesting, in 7.8 the () constraint wasn't Typeable, it seems. 13:19:11 [ <:2x^86 13:19:12 b_jonas: 77371252455336267181195263 13:19:20 and you cannot derive it, of course 13:20:15 put it in a Maybe then 13:20:21 or add a dummy constraint 13:20:26 oh damn i cannot define Dict in lambdabot because int-e refuses to import Constraint 13:21:20 b_jonas: not useable for what i'm actually trying to do, which is to expand shachaf's discovery from yesterday to an exploit 13:21:54 oh 13:22:14 isn't that why int-e refuses to import Constraint though? 13:22:19 unfortunately i'm too lazy to install 7.10 until the Haskell Platform gets out 13:22:35 b_jonas: no. 13:23:02 he gave up trying to get around our previous exploits with that kind of restrictions, and made a proper sandbox. 13:23:32 um sure, and? 13:23:36 the reason he refuses is that Constraint is in GHC.Exts, an Unsafe module. 13:23:45 he might want to use both for security 13:23:49 which means he'll have to jump through some hoops. 13:24:02 b_jonas: but Constraint is _supposed_ to be safe. 13:24:32 sure, but int-e suspects it's not safe even if it's supposed to be 13:24:57 b_jonas: i don't think he suspects Constraint, in itself, is safe. he'd have to ban _everything_. 13:25:02 *unsafe 13:25:31 except, of course, in this case i need it to test whether there is an exploit. 13:26:06 i tried to use 7.8 as far as possible to test, but it doesn't even _have_ the Typeable instances i need 13:26:48 hmm 13:27:01 isn't there a different online haskell interpreter somewhere? 13:29:20 :t Proxy :: (Proxy (() => ())) 13:29:21 Proxy () 13:29:24 hmph 13:29:39 it is quite possible it isn't possible to actually construct the () => () type 13:30:31 oh hm it's probably not considered monomorphic. 13:30:51 in which case it won't show up as Typeable 13:31:13 you can make an argument with the type, but not define instances for it. 13:31:29 shachaf: ^ 13:31:52 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:33:35 but _if_ you could, and if goldfire's ghc trac comment about * and Constraint being identified in core is actually relevant and creeps into the form of Typeable instances... 13:33:46 oerjan, isn't the constraint () trivially true? 13:34:22 Taneb: well sure. i was trying to construct (() => ()) as an actual _type_ with a Typeable instances distinct from () 13:34:40 in order to check whether it had the same TypeRep as () -> () 13:35:08 which could have allowed an exploit. 13:35:08 :t Proxy :: Proxy (Eq Int => Int) 13:35:10 Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: Eq Int => Int 13:35:10 Perhaps you intended to use ImpredicativeTypes 13:35:10 In an expression type signature: Proxy (Eq Int => Int) 13:35:20 hm 13:36:40 Taneb: it cannot contain actual class names or anything _officially_ polykinded. 13:37:16 () :: * and () :: Constraint have the same TypeRep, but the problem is constructing something with the _same_ kind 13:37:25 :t Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => Int) 13:37:26 Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: ((), ()) => Int 13:37:26 Perhaps you intended to use ImpredicativeTypes 13:37:26 In an expression type signature: Proxy (((), ()) => Int) 13:37:47 you cannot define any helper types, they would be polykinded. 13:38:54 but => is the same as -> in core, which might or might not be relevant. i'm starting to think it isn't, because => doesn't construct a monomorphic type. 13:39:39 so has no chance of ending up in a Typeable argument. 13:42:09 oh hm maybe it does. in 7.8 with ImpredicativeTypes enabled, typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) 13:42:22 gets close enough to complain about a lacking instance. 13:42:44 (having just () got removed) 13:43:24 * Taneb helped 13:44:14 i just need 7.10 without stupid restrictions to test this :( 13:44:53 MinGHC or not MinGHC, that's the question. 13:44:56 tanebvented is the word. 13:45:39 mroman, this was just a tanebhelped 13:46:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:47:02 gah 11 minutes to download something i only want to test something 13:47:15 nope. 13:48:27 * oerjan is not patient 13:49:12 so basically, i need a ghc 7.10 with ImpredicativeTypes and Data.Typeable enabled. 13:49:44 and that's just to test if the TypeReps _are_ the same, which they most likely aren't. 13:50:27 why isn't shachaf awake :( 13:50:42 (pesky americans) 13:52:20 @ask shachaf Can you test (you need ImpredicativeTypes) whether typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 13:52:20 Consider it noted. 13:53:09 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:53:51 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 13:53:52 ((),()) -> () 13:54:57 Taneb: oh and thanks 13:55:03 :) 13:58:46 huh safe haskell still allows some FFI 13:59:03 safeFFI 13:59:24 under the "everything's still allowed in IO" principle 14:00:13 nothing about ImpredicativeTypes, anyway. 14:02:55 @ask int-e Why aren't ImpredicativeTypes enabled, anyway. 14:02:55 Consider it noted. 14:04:06 int-e seems conspicuously absent. maybe germans have easter holidays too 14:04:59 Taneb: hey, you don't happen to have GHC 7.10 by any chance 14:05:09 oerjan, just got it installed somewhere 14:05:28 then you could test what i asked shachaf 14:06:42 if it compiles but they _aren't_ equal, the printout of typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) would also be interesting. 14:07:35 They are not equal 14:08:01 > typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) 14:08:02 Proxy * (() -> () -> ()) 14:08:03 Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: ((), ()) ⇒ () 14:08:03 Perhaps you intended to use ImpredicativeTypes 14:08:03 In an expression type signature: Proxy (((), ()) ⇒ ()) 14:08:08 Sorry, lambdabot 14:08:45 > typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 14:08:45 Proxy * (((),()) -> ()) 14:08:47 Proxy * (((),()) -> ()) 14:08:51 Again, sorry lambdabot 14:09:09 oerjan, is that right? 14:09:55 @type typeOf 14:09:56 Typeable a => a -> TypeRep 14:10:06 > typeOf (5,()) 14:10:08 (Integer,()) 14:10:24 > typeOf (5,()) == typeOf (3,()) 14:10:25 True 14:10:30 Taneb: @tell shachaf I cannot get either lambdabot or 7.8 to accept the re 14:10:38 wat 14:11:09 Taneb: @ask shachaf Can you test (you need ImpredicativeTypes) whether typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 14:11:15 @type typeRe 14:11:16 Not in scope: ‘typeRe’ 14:11:16 Perhaps you meant one of these: 14:11:16 ‘typeRep’ (imported from Data.Typeable), 14:11:16 @type typeRep 14:11:17 forall (k :: BOX) (proxy :: k -> *) (a :: k). Typeable a => proxy a -> TypeRep 14:11:22 oerjan, yeah, they are different 14:11:28 The constraints are uncurried 14:11:47 Which means that 14:11:50 what does typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) look like 14:11:51 Prelude Data.Typeable> typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) == typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy (() -> () -> ())) 14:11:51 True 14:11:52 @typeRep (5,()) 14:11:52 Unknown command, try @list 14:11:57 > typeRep (5,()) 14:11:58 () 14:12:46 Taneb: what is the result of typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) 14:13:05 Proxy * (() -> () -> ()) 14:13:22 "() -> () -> ()" rather 14:13:57 oh. 14:14:03 oldl maybe 14:14:05 Oops 14:14:12 in that case, please compare with actual () -> () -> () 14:14:46 ooh, that does look promising 14:14:47 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 14:14:52 oerjan, True 14:14:58 yay! 14:16:47 -!- hailer has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:19:11 oh duh i failed to read some of your lines :P 14:19:20 Taneb: could you try out http://oerjan.nvg.org/haskell/TypeableExploits/TFs5.hs ? 14:20:19 Illegal tuple constraint: () (Use ConstraintKinds to permit this) 14:21:00 oerjan, with ConstraintKinds it compiles 14:22:24 And uc (100 :: Int) :: Char gets 'd' 14:22:44 ooh 14:25:01 i fixed that, including your and shachaf's real name 14:25:06 to the ghc trac -> 14:26:30 :) 14:26:43 oh, could you add Safe too, on principle. 14:27:20 Still works 14:27:27 "good" 14:27:55 There's a single warning (duplicate constraint ()) but other than that it's all good 14:28:56 oerjan: no holidays, just a combination of getting up late and staying away from the computer 14:29:38 Nobody likes ImpredicativeTypes 14:30:41 you think :) 14:30:48 And I'm in Austria, even tomorrow is not a proper holiday... 14:31:16 (i.e. Good Fridat) But Easter Monday is. 14:31:31 ah. 14:31:47 norway has the highest density of easter holidays in the world, i think 14:32:07 (today, tomorrow, Easter and Easter Monday) 14:32:09 . o O ( Dear empty review form, please inspire me... [a different one from yesterday] ) 14:32:38 Easter Sunday is also a holiday, but a rather useless one. 14:33:03 oerjan: does it not have april 1 as a holiday? 14:33:20 what kind of holiday would that be? 14:34:05 a celebration of creativity that isn't necessarily directed towards a useful goal 14:34:37 int-e: It's not? 14:34:41 Karfreitag is usually a thing. 14:34:52 oerjan, do send me a link to the ticket when it is available 14:35:03 I'm going to work anyway 14:35:10 but it's a holiday around here. 14:35:21 mroman: In Austria, it's only a holiday for Protestants. Everybody else has to work. 14:35:52 Wait... catholics have to attend work, protestants get a holiday? 14:35:54 (Not sure whether it depends on the state, I'm in Tyrol...) 14:35:56 That's "lawful"? 14:36:08 Oh. I get that it depends on the state, yeah. 14:36:13 mroman: there are catholic-only holidays as well 14:36:16 Switzerland has different holidays in different states as well. 14:36:28 Depending on what religion was dominant some years ago I guess. 14:36:29 mroman: no it really depends on the individual 14:36:33 int-e: Oh. 14:36:34 Ok. 14:36:41 That's certainly... insteresting. 14:36:51 (Which I find rather strange. But oh well... and I'm neither catholic nor protestant.) 14:37:06 Well... 14:37:16 I think this holiday system sucks anyway 14:37:36 I think this work system... never mind. 14:37:39 Instead of having religious holidays you might as well say "well.. you have 5 days each year you can take off for whatever religious purpose it serves you" 14:37:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:38:08 which would be the same thing as giving you an extra week 14:38:08 ais523: by holiday i mean a day that most people don't need to work hth 14:38:11 Which I would prefer. 14:38:25 on the other hand 14:38:43 with these "free extra holidays" you could add some restrictions like "not more than two consecutive days" 14:38:59 Taneb: i just added it to the already existing one https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858#comment:76 14:39:01 so you have 5 extra days, but can't use them as a whole week at once. 14:39:23 mroman: your "you have N days and can spend them whenever you want" is very common as a method of allocating time off in companies nowadays 14:39:30 mroman: Then again the christian population pays dearly for those extra free days (there are additional taxes). 14:39:36 ais523: It is :) 14:39:51 sometimes requiring very slow days like Christmas Day to be one of those days 14:39:51 but then you have additional days off because of some religious background. 14:40:17 int-e: what kind of taxes? 14:40:19 but that's mostly because it's a huge secular holiday where basically nobody works, with the Christian holiday on the same date being observed by a much smaller number of people 14:40:20 church taxes? 14:40:25 well, church taxes. 14:40:32 but these don't go to the state 14:40:35 they go to the churches. 14:40:45 mroman: but they still reduce the people's paycheck 14:40:56 oerjan, :) 14:41:04 int-e: what if you're an atheiest? 14:41:10 do you get holidays on christmas? 14:41:19 mroman: There is this theory of division of church and state, well, this is how it looks in practice ;) 14:41:27 yeah 14:41:35 mroman: it's hard to argue that there isn't an atheist holiday on Christmas; just statistically, such a holiday exists 14:41:55 interestingly, the UK doesn't officially have a separation of church and state 14:41:57 mroman: Yes, I do. There's only one or two days where the faith is actually taken into account. 14:41:59 and yet the two overlap pretty rarely 14:42:39 mroman: To be fair, despite the name, Christmas is really a capitalist holiday. (Ironically it was a holiday in communist countries as well.) 14:42:57 Well... 14:43:10 I don't fully agree with that 14:43:17 like valentine's day 14:43:24 people develop expectations from it 14:43:33 so you can't really blame it only on shops and malls and the like 14:43:46 people's expectations are to blame 14:44:04 I have no expectation whatsover for Valentine's day. 14:44:09 Yeah me neither. 14:44:19 wow. 14:44:25 expectations, whatsoever. 14:44:27 mainly because there's no relationship on the horizon and there never was. 14:44:39 but... 14:44:42 now I'm feeling bad for not showing up to #esoteric with flowers 14:45:05 (the "wow" came from the realization that "whatsover" almost looks like a real word) 14:45:25 I only buy christmas gifts for closest of family members 14:45:28 brothers and parents 14:45:30 that's it. 14:45:54 and usually you'll tell each other what presents you would have a use for 14:45:55 ais523: Cherry blossom is almost over, too. 14:46:00 which... makes the whole point rather moot 14:46:01 but 14:46:11 what do I know about social things. 14:46:47 anyway, bbl 14:48:08 ^flowers 14:48:10 !flowers 14:48:13 )flowers 14:48:14 (flowers 14:48:15 hm 14:48:18 no flower bot 14:48:20 `flowers 14:48:39 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: flowers: not found 14:49:12 @}~}~~~ 14:49:12 Unknown command, try @list 14:49:34 damn bot prefixes :( 14:49:52 It would make more sense for bots to have 14:49:55 instead of 14:49:56 because 14:50:00 nobody starts a sentence with a space 14:50:04 but 14:50:13 those damn bot writers are just too dumb to notice that 14:50:35 mroman: I think it's precisely /because/ nobody starts a sentence with aa space 14:50:46 people wouldn't be able to use the bot 14:50:50 of course 14:50:52 @help 14:50:53 see 14:50:55 no proble 14:50:56 m 14:51:36 (hi) 14:51:46 ( <:i9 14:51:46 (input):1:1: error: expected: ":", 14:51:46 dependent type signature, 14:51:46 end of input 14:51:46 <:i9 14:51:46 ^ 14:52:00 ( (input):1:1: error: expected: ":", 14:52:00 dependent type signature, 14:52:00 end of input 14:52:00 14:52:00 ^ 14:52:03 hm 14:52:42 [ i9 14:52:42 mroman: |value error: i9 14:52:47 [ mroman: < i9 14:52:53 [ <:i9 14:52:54 mroman: <: i9 14:53:00 [ <9 14:53:00 mroman: ┌─┐ 14:53:00 mroman: │9│ 14:53:00 mroman: └─┘ 14:53:09 hu 14:53:11 [ <:9 14:53:11 mroman: 8 14:56:40 oh yeah 14:56:42 that reminds me 14:56:49 I have to check if I still have the source for octofrogscript 14:57:34 probably not 14:58:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:01:47 I'm having a new language in mind that engrains code conventions in its syntax 15:01:53 such as indentation 15:02:12 python? 15:02:19 a bit more restricted than python 15:02:34 In python you can still choose between 2 spaces, 4 spaces, 1 tab or 99 spaces 15:02:39 that's too much freedom! 15:02:44 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:02:55 also I think if(9 <0) is legal 15:02:58 Go? 15:02:59 as well as if (9<0) 15:03:19 or if (9 < 0) 15:03:33 but that might be too restrictive 15:03:35 I don't know 15:03:47 so basically this is $EXISTING_LANGUAGE except that your code must be byte-identical to the output produced by a pretty printer on its parse tree? 15:03:55 well! 15:03:59 mroman: if(9 <0) should be legal, but do something completely different from if(9<0) 15:04:05 And you can write using different syntaxes I guess 15:04:15 delphi style, lisp style, c style 15:04:16 :D 15:04:31 myname: have you seen Ursala? 15:04:39 Ursala rocks 15:04:44 not even joking, whitespace around operators changes their meaning there 15:05:00 wait 15:05:03 :D 15:05:07 a while back I learned enough Ursala to get an appreciation of how it works and just how twisted the design is 15:05:09 ais523: i have not 15:05:10 you actually looked at Ursala a bit more serious? 15:05:12 although not enough to actually program in it 15:05:23 drop me a link 15:05:24 oh 15:05:36 bbl 15:05:42 I can normally mentally parse programs, but not figure out what they mean (or precedence/associativity; those aren't transitive in ursala) 15:06:29 myname: huh, I can't find it via my normal search engine 15:06:39 maybe it's gone down 15:07:02 yep, I found the URL but it's 404 15:07:05 now trying wayback 15:07:17 ruby some weird whitespace effects, too 15:07:41 what? it has non-transitive precedence? 15:08:35 myname: here you go: http://web.archive.org/web/20110910024105/http://www.basis.netii.net/ursala/manual.pdf 15:08:38 b_jonas: yes! 15:08:58 I was actually reading through the book I learned to write compilers from recently 15:09:14 and it mentions offhand that non-transitive precedence is mathematically possible and the parsing algos work fine on it 15:09:21 why isn't this in our wiki 15:09:36 but that people might want to voluntarily avoid such languages because they might be confusing 15:09:41 IMO, ursala is evidence for this 15:11:56 [wiki] [[Talk:Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42268 * Esowiki201529A * (+66) Created page with "这个正确的名字是“十六进制堆栈式伪汇编语言”" 15:12:19 odds of a spambot? 15:12:39 zero 15:12:52 users has plenty of other contributions 15:12:56 may be confuse though 15:13:02 interesting user name 15:13:24 ah right, this is a known problem user: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Esowiki201529A 15:14:28 @tell shachaf Never mind, Taneb helped; see https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858#comment:76 15:14:28 Consider it noted. 15:24:08 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:24:20 ais523: ok 15:25:32 int-e: btw are you also still missing Cc:s on https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858 ? i've received shachaf's last message but nothing later. 15:28:17 yes 15:31:59 oerjan: nice exploit. And yeah, I think deep down () :: Constraint and () :: * should have different names. 15:33:31 (oh and shachaf and Taneb) 15:34:42 as well as (,) and => 15:35:19 btw you know you're excited about something when you're trying to multitask irc'ing and shaving. 15:35:21 is there a (,) on the constraint level? 15:35:40 oerjan: bloddy business? 15:35:44 bloody 15:36:09 Ah maybe you're using one of those extra-safe, buzzing, electric shavers 15:39:32 . o O ( is there a smartphone with built-in shaver yet? ) 15:40:16 There could even be a razor-thin edition... 15:40:49 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:50:27 int-e: yes the (,) in (Ord a, Num a), say 15:51:07 actually i'm using razor blades. pretty safe, though. although i'm not always entirely free of bleeding. 15:51:31 also, the multitasking still moves between different rooms 15:52:39 i use to use electric but it went *poof* just after i moved here. 15:52:59 as in, there was arcing when it died. 15:53:07 *used 15:53:15 now brushing teeth -> 15:56:41 oh hm there was that automatic currying Taneb noticed, but i'm sure that cannot apply in positive position in data types/families 16:00:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:08:32 or anywhere polymorphic in the constraints 16:17:32 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:20:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:22:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:26:16 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:36:48 ooh, new INTERCAL release 16:36:52 err, C-INTERCAL 16:37:00 esr released it to get the code out there before gitorious died 16:52:32 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:56:27 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:59:18 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 17:01:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:01:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 17:01:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:05:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:12:17 -!- Xeironis has joined. 17:23:00 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:26:17 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:28:01 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 17:29:49 -!- mihow has joined. 17:33:16 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:35:46 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 17:37:28 oerjan: whoa, I missed the whole thing. 17:37:30 oerjan++ 17:37:43 @messages-lead 17:37:43 oerjan asked 3h 45m 22s ago: Can you test (you need ImpredicativeTypes) whether typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 17:37:43 oerjan said 2h 23m 14s ago: Never mind, Taneb helped; see https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858#comment:76 17:40:52 why isn't oerjan awake :( 17:41:16 . o O ( Why do you tempt me to give a tautological answer? ) 17:43:44 wouldn't the tautological answer there be "because oerjan isn't awake", which doesn't actually answer the question? 17:44:01 ais523: yes. 17:44:34 The temptation arises from the fact that I cannot conceive of a more useful answer than that. 17:44:59 06:52 why isn't shachaf awake :( 17:45:14 shachaf: thanks 17:46:26 lol 17:47:55 look i just woke up 17:48:34 shachaf: FWIW I consider this to be one of my character flaws. So I can't really complain. 17:48:55 Now I'm confused. 17:49:09 "this" being the tendency to give tautological answers. 17:59:18 -!- variable has joined. 18:00:53 why is fungot awake :( 18:00:53 int-e: you got to try that kind of explanation makes it easier 18:01:35 okay, another review done. 18:01:42 clearly, fungot is awake because fungot is awake 18:01:42 ais523: i have complained about the lack of such a function 18:01:52 and apparently doesn't know how to go to sleep 18:02:15 ^sleep 18:07:39 Now as long as nobody mentions fun⁠got by name we can pretend that it worked. 18:10:30 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:18:11 -!- hjulle has joined. 18:22:17 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:22:42 -!- ^v^v has joined. 18:24:00 oerjan: Makes me wonder whether there are other bugs involving ConstraintKinds that don't need Typeable. E.g. can you write (Show a, Show b) :~: (Show b, Show a) somehow? 18:28:53 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:44:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:52:29 -!- nys has joined. 19:00:16 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:02:34 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 19:03:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:04:05 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 19:09:17 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:12:09 -!- mihow has joined. 19:22:12 -!- ^v has joined. 19:22:14 -!- variable has joined. 19:22:18 -!- trout has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:24:44 -!- ^v^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:28:59 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:29:25 -!- variable has joined. 19:45:21 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:03:30 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:33:36 shachaf: regarding unicodesyntax, I'm going to patch my ghc. 20:34:15 (and update #8959 accordingly once it works) 20:34:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:37:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:38:22 -!- variable has joined. 20:44:11 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AnonymousAnomaly * New user account 20:47:49 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 20:53:34 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:59:37 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:08:13 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:08:34 [wiki] [[Gott]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42269 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+143) Gott is an esoteric programming language that uses only for loops. 21:12:46 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:13:29 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:17:44 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42270&oldid=42269 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+826) 21:20:54 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:22:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:24:36 why isn't oerjan awake :( <-- the question assumes facts not in evidence hth 21:24:49 oerjan: so did yours hth 21:25:03 * oerjan was, at that time, probably showering. 21:25:04 -!- mihow has joined. 21:25:16 -!- Xeironis has left ("Konversation terminated!"). 21:25:24 so not completely awake 21:25:41 um i wasn't going either to or from bed 21:25:52 just preparing to leave the house. 21:26:04 It's a bit funny that GHC's normalization is exposed by type equality, so that "(Foo a, Bar a) => a" unifies with "Foo a => Bar a => a" but not with "(Bar a, Foo a) => a" 21:26:28 yeah 21:26:48 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:26:52 basically, they haven't worked too hard on making type inference of constraints be flexible. 21:27:08 (or maybe they have and gave up.) 21:27:42 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:28:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:28:10 oerjan: whoa, I missed the whole thing. <-- on the bright side, you got credited. 21:28:46 oerjan: to be fair, what sort of person would even do that sort of thing with constraints 21:28:57 edwardk hth 21:29:51 I haven't seen even edwardk make GADTs/type families with arguments that require constraint unification. 21:29:58 in fact, i greatly suspect he'd like it if the outcome of this was to make the (,) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint etc. entirely separately referencable entities. 21:30:15 Oh, sure, that's a much more reasonable outcome. 21:30:28 Given that you can't even get at that (,) right now. 21:31:26 Anyway, after that's fixed, SafeHaskell is *sure* to be bulletproof! 21:32:14 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:32:48 -!- merdach has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:32:49 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:33:06 -!- merdach has joined. 21:33:56 -!- edirc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:34:11 indeed! 21:34:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:34:50 -!- perrier_ has joined. 21:35:04 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:35:26 -!- dianne_ has joined. 21:36:05 `unidecode n⁠ 21:36:32 -!- mhi^ has joined. 21:36:46 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42271&oldid=42270 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+453) 21:36:49 -!- perrier has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:36:49 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:37:06 ​[U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+2060 WORD JOINER] 21:37:43 mein gott 21:38:34 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42272&oldid=42271 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+437) 21:38:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 21:39:39 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:39:49 -!- fractal has joined. 21:41:28 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 21:42:35 -!- TieSleep has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:43:05 :t fmap 21:43:06 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 21:46:18 :t fmap :: Monad m => (a -> b) -> m a -> m b -- p. fancy 21:46:19 Monad m => (a -> b) -> m a -> m b 21:46:37 -!- constant has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 21:54:18 -!- variable has joined. 21:56:51 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:57:13 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:03:59 :t toList 22:04:00 Not in scope: ‘toList’ 22:04:00 Perhaps you meant one of these: 22:04:00 ‘F.toList’ (imported from Data.Foldable), 22:09:13 -!- mihow has joined. 22:11:08 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:14:00 :t toList 22:14:01 Not in scope: ‘toList’ 22:14:01 Perhaps you meant one of these: 22:14:01 ‘F.toList’ (imported from Data.Foldable), 22:20:19 :t toList 22:20:20 IsList l => l -> [Item l] 22:20:27 :k () :: Constraint 22:20:28 parse error on input ‘::’ 22:20:41 Ah. 22:22:48 -!- FatBack has joined. 22:23:24 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:23:40 :k (() :: Constraint) 22:23:41 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Constraint’ 22:23:41 Perhaps you meant ‘Contains’ (imported from Control.Lens) 22:25:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:25:46 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:26:58 :t toList 22:26:59 IsList l => l -> [Item l] 22:27:08 but, why 22:27:58 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42273&oldid=42272 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+811) 22:28:31 after all that work to avoid name clashes 22:29:53 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:30:18 -!- ^v has joined. 22:31:07 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42274&oldid=42273 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+63) 22:31:44 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42275&oldid=42274 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+0) 22:32:46 funny, this module exports nothing: http://sprunge.us/XUNE?hs 22:34:41 :k (() :: Constraint) 22:34:42 Constraint 22:34:57 :k () :: Constraint -- this appears to be a ghci bug 22:34:58 parse error on input ‘::’ 22:35:25 fancy 22:36:16 huh indeed it doesn't seem to export anything 22:36:49 int-e: Not just ghci. 22:37:09 type A = () :: ... has the same issue. 22:37:50 if I just put an extra pair of parentheses there, will that break anything? 22:37:54 :t (Maybe) 22:37:55 Not in scope: data constructor ‘Maybe’ 22:37:55 Perhaps you meant variable ‘maybe’ (imported from Data.Maybe) 22:37:58 :k (Maybe) 22:37:59 * -> * 22:38:09 * variable is imported from lambdabot 22:40:34 -!- FatBack has set topic: penis. 22:41:06 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 22:41:08 -!- int-e has set topic: RIP Misao Okawa | I'm a fungot trapped in a channel full of weirdos | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 22:41:19 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*Fat@*.neo.res.rr.com. 22:41:19 -!- oerjan has kicked FatBack Go to Hell. 22:41:39 ...that's just the reaction they wanted, wasn't it. 22:41:49 probably 22:41:53 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 22:41:58 if it happens again, use your powers to set +t 22:42:04 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 22:42:05 (temporarily at least) 22:42:19 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +tsric. 22:42:27 argh 22:42:30 oops. 22:42:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -sric. 22:43:11 * int-e wonders what +r is... 22:43:19 i cannot remember, was it +c or +C 22:43:37 int-e: it's already happened, ais523 banned em yesterday 22:43:41 oerjan, /raw help umode 22:43:44 ah. block unidentified 22:43:56 erm cmode 22:44:04 variable: i am quite sure irssi doesn't use /raw 22:44:05 oerjan: +C 22:44:10 good 22:44:13 oerjan, eh? 22:44:17 * cmode : +C - Disable CTCP. All CTCP messages to the channel, except ACTION, 22:44:25 +c filters color, I hear some people here like color. 22:44:34 * cmode : +c - No color. All color codes in messages are stripped. 22:44:36 https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml works. 22:44:44 variable: my client doesn't use /raw 22:44:56 it uses /quote, hth 22:44:57 oerjan, oh, so just direct /help cmode 22:44:58 ? 22:45:02 ah, /quote 22:45:04 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 22:45:09 * variable can't remember irssi 22:45:30 no, /help cmode gives irssi's own help, which is empty 22:47:06 oerjan: use glguy's fancy new irc client hth 22:47:34 does it run on a terminal? 22:47:42 Yes. 22:48:07 does it look like irssi? 22:48:09 * int-e ducks 22:48:26 A little bit. 22:48:53 (I think I've already invested too much time in customizing irssi) 22:49:14 s/in /into / 22:49:25 But this client has all sorts of great features. 22:49:41 And also if you tell glguy what you're missing he'll implement it. 22:50:44 int-e: huh why doesn't Constraint get exported 22:52:34 huh it's just Constraint, too 22:53:17 (this with 7.8.3, naturally) 22:53:46 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 22:59:20 int-e: probably a ghc bug? 22:59:44 Maybe, I'm asking #ghc before I put in on Trac. 23:00:15 what you can do that 23:00:40 (I did verify that this doesn't happen with just any empty data type, perhaps it's a builtin identifiers thing.) 23:01:37 i verified that Any and Down worked... 23:01:53 (just random ones that aren't prelude or containing #) 23:02:15 oh, it's an indirect import thing. 23:02:46 (Constraint is "defined" in Ghc.Prim) 23:02:51 GHC.Prim 23:03:17 but so is a _lot_ of GHC.Exts, no 23:04:27 or not... 23:04:32 xor# works just fine, and is from there too 23:04:50 I don't know what went wrong in my test, cannot reproduce it anymore. 23:05:07 reproduce what? 23:05:39 the one where I thought that a reexport hid a reexported identifier 23:07:20 "the one"? the incident, I guess. 23:08:05 hm * is also in GHC.Prim but not in GHC.Exts 23:08:18 * shachaf is at computer now, tries to figure out what bug is being discussed. 23:08:22 I have not tried to reexport *. 23:08:36 Oh, the Constraint export paste above. 23:09:02 (since I don't really know how to refer to it in an import or export list) 23:09:23 (or what extension I need for that to work) 23:09:29 -!- ^v^v has joined. 23:09:35 (assuming it's possible at all) 23:09:38 oh right the source links weren't working in the 7.10 haddocks 23:10:41 int-e: it just seems that GHC.Exts reexports all of GHC.Prim, so * is also excluded there 23:11:54 GHC.Exts has an explicit export for Constraint, figures. 23:12:04 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:12:32 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:12:43 oh 23:13:40 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:13:41 no explanation :( https://github.com/ghc/ghc/commit/c0e32a32a3f20a9310e7321a8a96acfe0ef0d0f7 23:14:53 and it still exported GHC.Prim too 23:15:46 They should've just given Constraint a symbolic name like * 23:15:49 the most "obvious" cause to me is that this affects kind-only identifiers 23:15:57 Then it wouldn't've needed an import. 23:16:25 which cannot be defined presently iirc 23:16:41 which is why i wondered about * 23:17:08 shachaf: but then it'd clash with type operators 23:17:16 Just like * 23:17:28 yes but it'd be a _new_ clash. 23:17:48 Just give it a name starting with : 23:17:55 No one would name a type operator that. 23:18:07 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 23:18:16 darn 23:18:20 you finally got me 23:18:47 The letdown is that I've said much more swatworthy things. 23:19:08 don't worry, the swatter is reusable. 23:19:22 Can it go back in time? 23:19:44 only if someone adds feather to it 23:19:44 editing the codu logs may be an option 23:22:26 (hmm, a minority report) 23:28:27 -!- zadock has joined. 23:38:08 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:42:57 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:45:59 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hug~♪). 2015-04-03: 00:21:31 -!- iamevn_ has joined. 00:23:06 gah it's my monthly reddit shock ad 00:24:29 -!- iamevn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:27:23 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:27:35 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 00:27:35 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:30:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:48:30 gah, another wasted ghc build 00:49:28 how so 00:50:18 I had copied a file to mk/build.mk.7.10.1 instead of build.mk 00:54:12 mhm 00:55:16 so I got a full build, but without DYNAMIC_GHC_PROGRAMS 00:55:53 a fully anemic build 00:56:59 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:57:31 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 00:58:40 paraphrasing #haskell, unsafeCoerce is a fixed point of ($ id) 00:59:04 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 00:59:05 whoa 00:59:09 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 00:59:23 :t ($ id) 00:59:24 ((a -> a) -> b) -> b 00:59:24 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 00:59:28 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 00:59:36 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:59:40 :t fix ($ id) 00:59:41 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: b ~ (a -> a) -> b 00:59:41 Expected type: ((a -> a) -> b) -> (a -> a) -> b 00:59:41 Actual type: ((a -> a) -> b) -> b 00:59:49 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 00:59:51 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 00:59:58 HMM 01:00:11 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 01:00:14 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 01:00:20 -!- elliott has joined. 01:00:39 > :t (unsafeCoerce $ id) :: a -> b 01:00:39 (unsafeCoerce $ id) :: a -> b :: a -> b 01:00:41 :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 01:00:43 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest24483. 01:00:55 :t let uc :: a -> b; uc = undefined in ($ id) uc 01:00:56 b 01:01:00 but the point is, it's operationally the same as unsafeCoerce, too. 01:01:02 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 01:01:03 it has an even more general type 01:01:05 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 01:01:25 shachaf: but without restricting the type it's liable to crash 01:01:31 (I think) 01:01:40 It's liable to crash anyway. 01:01:44 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 01:01:47 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 01:01:49 true, there's that 01:02:08 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 01:02:45 What's the least fixed point of ($ id) in untyped lambda calculus? 01:03:02 maybe unsafeCoerce should really have type unsafeCoerce :: a. 01:04:51 let t = t (\y -> y) in t -- doesn't look useful after unfolding it into a Böhm tree. 01:04:54 shachaf: pretty sure it's bottom hth 01:05:38 oerjan: and what's the greatest fixed point twh 01:05:39 -!- GeekDude has joined. 01:06:07 does there have to be one 01:06:10 (meh we're working in different domains) 01:06:29 oerjan: i never said it exists 01:07:12 unlambda v is a bit higher, i think 01:07:25 which is basically fix const 01:23:21 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:52:00 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:26:50 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:46:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: cetera). 03:00:07 [wiki] [[Talk:Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42276&oldid=42248 * Esowiki201529A * (+26) 03:15:00 -!- constant has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 03:37:21 a hacker made this almost 3 years ago 03:37:24 `` a=abcdef; n= eval 'printf %s "${a[0]"{1..'${#a}'}":(-(++n)):1}"' "$'\n'" 03:37:33 fedcba 03:37:54 and... this is mine 03:37:57 `` a=abcdef; n= eval 'printf %s "${a[0]"{1..'${#a}'}":(-(++n)):1}"' "$'\n'" 03:37:58 fedcba 03:37:59 no 03:38:07 `` a=abcdef; eval eval printf %s '"\"\${a:"'{${#a}..0}':1}\"' "$'$\'\\n\''" 03:38:08 fedcba 03:38:09 ^ that one 03:39:35 mine is much more straigthforward :| 03:39:45 but... it works in bash/ksh/zsh 03:39:51 his version only works in bash 03:39:53 so yeah 03:39:57 kinda happy 03:41:34 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 03:56:03 -!- fractal has quit (Changing host). 03:56:03 -!- fractal has joined. 04:08:04 -!- MDream has joined. 04:08:24 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:08:55 -!- adu has joined. 04:16:59 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:18:06 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:44:06 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:44:31 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:45:15 -!- ocharles_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:45:45 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:47:15 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 04:48:17 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 04:50:03 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:51:31 int-e: For monotonic functions does o behave the way I wanted it to with respect to O? 04:56:12 -!- variable has joined. 04:58:10 coppro: you being a nethack dev is an april fool's, right 04:59:32 Guest24483: IIRC no, he's been involved in nethack for a while. 04:59:42 I mean actual nethack 04:59:43 not nethack 4 05:09:20 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 05:11:09 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:11:45 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 05:18:01 -!- variable has joined. 05:25:13 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:52:16 Is "Do not destroy" the title of any melody? 05:53:06 write one and call it like that 05:54:36 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:55:07 Footnotes in the book of Psalms in the version I have say that it probably is, although some psalms are just marked "Do not destroy" and it isn't quite clear why; the scholars who wrote the footnotes seem to believe it is probably the title of a melody that is now lost (I suppose, presumably, they had no musical notation at the time so they just named the melody instead). 07:41:49 -!- dianne_ has quit (Quit: byeannes). 07:43:34 -!- gamemanj has joined. 07:44:04 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 07:59:03 shachaf: no, you can construct staircase functions with fast growing stairs and still get similar counterexamples to the alternating function one. 08:04:00 shachaf: for example, f(n) = 2^2^floor(log_2(log_2(n)) (which maps [2,4) to 2, [4,16) to 4, [16,256) to 16, [256,65536) to 256, etc; it's O(n), not o(n), and n is not O(f)). 08:04:50 :t 1 08:04:51 Num a => a 08:04:55 lucky me. 08:07:37 int-e: OK. 08:07:46 Is there an obvious relationship between o and O? 08:08:23 other than o(f) being a strict subset of O(f), none that I'm aware of. 08:10:26 O(f) \ o(f) has no nice characterization, I think. 08:19:21 -!- stuntaneous_o has joined. 08:20:30 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:26:21 -!- stuntaneous_o has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:30:11 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:30:14 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:33:36 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:33:39 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:33:54 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:33:57 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:34:17 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:34:20 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:34:38 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:34:41 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:34:58 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:35:01 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:35:13 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:35:16 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:35:31 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:35:34 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:35:49 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:35:51 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:36:11 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:36:14 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:36:30 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:36:33 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:36:47 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:36:50 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:37:04 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:37:07 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:37:27 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:37:30 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:37:52 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:37:55 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:38:08 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:38:10 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:38:27 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:38:30 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:38:44 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:38:47 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:39:02 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:39:05 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:39:20 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:39:22 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:39:42 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:39:44 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:40:07 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:40:10 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:40:24 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:40:27 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:40:41 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:40:44 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:40:58 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:41:01 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:41:15 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:41:18 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:41:34 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:41:37 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:41:50 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:41:53 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:42:13 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:42:16 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:42:31 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:42:34 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:42:49 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:42:51 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:43:13 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:43:16 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:43:30 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:43:33 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:43:52 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:43:54 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:43:56 wtf. 08:44:10 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:44:12 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:44:29 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:44:31 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:44:48 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:44:50 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:45:07 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:45:07 Stuntaneous is yet another unfortunate victim of autojoin... 08:45:09 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:45:22 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:45:24 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:45:45 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:45:47 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:46:03 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:46:04 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:46:43 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:46:45 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:46:58 . o O ( thank irssi for selective ignores... /ignore stuntaneous JOINS PARTS QUITS ) 08:47:00 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:47:02 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:47:18 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:47:20 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:47:35 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:47:37 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:47:52 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:47:54 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:48:10 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:48:13 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:48:28 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:48:30 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:48:44 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:48:46 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:49:02 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:49:04 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 08:49:20 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:49:30 -!- zadock has joined. 09:08:30 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:12:25 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:39:06 -!- Guest61975 has joined. 09:39:51 hi 09:40:23 -!- Guest61975 has left. 09:42:59 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:09:04 -!- Guest61975 has joined. 10:20:47 hi 10:38:52 hi 10:39:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:40:35 heyo 10:44:31 `relcome Guest61975 10:44:34 ​Guest61975: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 10:48:29 thanks 10:48:31 so guys 10:48:38 anyone know art magick? 11:00:16 -!- Guest61975 has left. 11:16:15 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:29:33 -!- gamemanj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:32:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:44:30 -!- Guest61975 has joined. 11:49:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:02:07 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:17:59 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:45:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:52:46 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy ((((),()),()) => ()) 12:52:47 :1:45: 12:52:47 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 12:52:54 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy ((((),()),()) => ())) 12:52:56 Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: (((), ()), ()) => () 12:52:56 Perhaps you intended to use ImpredicativeTypes 12:52:56 In an expression type signature: Proxy ((((), ()), ()) => ()) 12:53:04 ok that's still missing 12:53:11 oh wait 12:54:11 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) :: Constraint)) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy ((),())) 12:54:13 True 13:00:31 > 1 13:00:33 1 13:02:34 > let x :: forall a. (a b c ~ (((),()) :: Constraint)) => TypeRep; x = typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy a) in x 13:02:35 Not in scope: type variable ‘b’Not in scope: type variable ‘c’ 13:02:39 oops 13:03:21 > let x :: forall a. (a b c ~ ((b,c) :: Constraint)) => TypeRep; x = typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy a) in x 13:03:22 Not in scope: type variable ‘b’Not in scope: type variable ‘c’Not in scope: ... 13:03:23 sorry, going to take away the toy for some minutes. 13:03:25 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 13:03:41 * oerjan swats int-e -----### 13:03:46 WORST TIMING EVER 13:04:26 i was trying to see if you could get at (,) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint indirectly 13:07:05 well, :t understands unicode syntax now (and still prints types in ASCII) 13:07:22 fancy 13:08:03 -!- lambdabot has joined. 13:08:25 > let x :: forall a b c. (a b c ~ ((b,c) :: Constraint)) => TypeRep; x = typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy a) in x 13:08:31 (,) 13:08:38 yay 13:10:36 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (() ~ ())) 13:10:37 ~ * () () 13:10:46 hm ~ has the kind, useless 13:11:30 i think maybe you actually need the () base case to construct ambiguous things of the same kind, but i'm not entirely counting on it. 13:14:29 This was amazingly simple. https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/attachment/ticket/8959/ghc-print-unicode-flag.patch 13:15:39 GHC simple? what heresy is this? 13:16:13 I know, right?! 13:21:40 Guest24483: you are fooling no one hth 13:24:32 fungot: hi there 13:24:32 int-e: gah. i've inadvertently gone and added another project to my ever-increasing list. so there's really no difference between eof and), respectively, too.) 13:24:49 fungot: I feel your pain 13:24:49 int-e: maybe ' bureaucracy' isn't the opposite of partial? fnord? 13:25:02 fungot: that's an interesting thought 13:25:02 int-e: it's just not the ants. 13:25:07 creepy. 13:36:11 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:42:46 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: sorry, let me try that again...). 13:47:19 -!- lambdabot has joined. 13:51:31 fungot: Do your people celebrate easter? 13:51:32 mroman: gah. paul graham you program form the bottom up instead of top down... 13:52:32 fungot: you're better than a magic 8ball 13:52:32 int-e: and it isn't available in debian. debian is known at run-time, but the meta-language in which macros are your fnord bits? 13:52:46 fungot: and almost as mysterious 13:52:46 int-e: omg c++ rox0rz rofl rofl!!! i want a programming language 13:54:04 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:58:07 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:03:01 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 14:03:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:04:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:05:03 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 14:12:29 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:22:21 ^style 14:22:21 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 14:23:22 -!- oren has joined. 14:25:45 fungot, how are you doing? 14:25:45 Taneb: you've all seen it, always building the answer up is much more 14:26:52 fungot's on a roll 14:26:53 int-e: machinecode is where it's at 14:26:55 hm the most recent girl genius seems to indicate that some time has passed since the battle with the beast 14:27:03 zzo38: Perhaps at some point, when people tended to reuse parchment after scraping the letters off, some monk thought it a good idea to mark the psalms he needed saved, as "do not destroy"? 14:28:20 oerjan: ah well, you know sparks 14:28:24 And then the mark just got copied from copy to copy, until the reason was lost 14:28:26 oerjan: it's probably less than a week 14:28:32 maybe 14:29:06 oren: this is the bible though, i somehow doubt they'd scribble in it? 14:29:07 oerjan, sparks are involved, progress can go quickly 14:29:15 oerjan: how long did building the swinecopter-driven sleigh take, you think? 14:29:33 and she did that all almost by herself 14:29:33 15 minutes? :P 14:29:41 ok maybe an hour 14:30:06 oerjan: Hmm... my aunt writes notes all over her bible, but i can see how in the era of handwritten books that mght be frownedupon 14:30:18 int-e: but in this case, the monks are also working on it, presumably not as fast 14:30:21 -!- variable has joined. 14:30:38 oerjan: I know, she has some serious help there 14:30:47 oerjan: and some of those monks are sparky too 14:31:03 oerjan, and the monks are REALLY GOOD at trains 14:32:17 I wonder whether Martellus is helping 14:32:48 hm 14:33:35 well, at least a few days though, i'd say, they've had time to calm down some. 14:34:00 let's say 3 days and move on :) 14:34:10 and also, gil initially expected them to have gone already. 14:34:17 FINE 14:35:13 I mean there still was smoke outside, presumably indicating leftovers from the carnage 14:36:20 right 14:37:11 (technically, very little meat was involved... huh) 14:37:51 Should I evn bother putting "2 years Matlab experience" on my resume? 14:38:04 Does anyone outside of academia use it? 14:44:47 fun site... http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/matlab.do 14:45:48 so Matlab is about as popular as R, according to that site. 14:46:44 I also thought that many of the toolboxes that Mathworks sells are not really made for academia but for real-life engineering and data analysis tasks. 14:47:02 But I have virtually no personal Matlab experience. 14:47:33 Cool, so my time struggling to work with it in various courses was not wasted. Awsome 14:50:27 I have the same impression, that it does see real-life use. 14:50:39 (Something like Mathematica possibly rather less so?) 14:51:16 I haven't used Matlab outside of an academic context, but that's a pretty small sampling of jobs. 14:51:37 I haven't used Matlab inside an academic context ;) 14:52:34 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:52:41 Also I'm writing my resume in LaTeX... I wonder if anyone will recognize the Computer Modern font on my resume 14:53:34 . o O ( "We have a special paper bin for resumes written in LaTeX." ) 14:53:51 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 14:53:59 If you want recognizability, Comic Sans would be a good choice. 14:54:13 Lol. 14:54:57 has anyone here played typerider and read the history of comic sans? 14:56:11 You forgot the colon. (But I haven't played it.) 14:56:50 [wiki] [[Batch]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42277 * Esowiki201529A * (+24) redirect to "Batch file" 14:57:08 fizzie: sorry, the colon got stuck in the middle of a level. 14:59:31 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[MuFuck]] to [[ΜFuck]] 15:01:02 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Esowiki201529A * moved [[ΜFuck]] to [[MuFuck]] over redirect 15:15:43 `unidecode Μ 15:16:19 ​[U+039C GREEK CAPITAL LETTER MU] 15:16:22 thought so 15:17:06 Way to confuse people. 15:17:34 Clearly Latin should be the one and only alphabet ;-) 15:18:11 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Oerjan * moved [[MuFuck]] to [[ΜFuck]] over redirect: It's a good idea but needs a little change... 15:19:59 int-e: Clearly if unicode did Han unification they should, for the sake of fairness, do Phoenician Unification as well 15:20:01 [wiki] [[ΜFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42284&oldid=42282 * Oerjan * (-2) Different template, also bold 15:20:07 The thing with µ and μ is pretty bad. 15:20:31 `unidecode μ 15:20:32 ​[U+03BC GREEK SMALL LETTER MU] 15:20:37 oerjan: did you mean: ΜΦυκ 15:20:59 th other one is the micro symbol for iupac 15:21:16 Yes, but I can only easily type µ, not μ. 15:21:45 int-e: Heт 15:22:03 I have greek mapped to `x* where x is any latin letter 15:22:31 Я не понимаю 15:22:52 Eat at Pectopah, the most popular restaurant chain of the Cyrillic world. (Ресторан.) 15:23:16 ouch. 15:23:18 Ya ne ponimayu? 15:23:23 heh 15:23:46 -!- yorick has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 15:23:51 * oren does not quite know how to read cyrillic 15:24:01 oren: it's the universal phrase, you can say that to anybody, anytime 15:24:14 oren: nye, but close enough 15:24:36 oren: so how do you write an actual x? 15:24:46 `unidecode x 15:24:47 ​[U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X] 15:24:53 with the key x 15:25:00 oh wait 15:25:08 (ah, not a trick question) 15:25:08 make that an actual * 15:25:34 or perhaps an actual ` 15:25:34 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:25:36 oerjan the ` is part of the sequence, and `` makes a ` 15:25:48 ah. 15:26:10 -!- yorick has joined. 15:26:13 `unidecode ѥ 15:26:14 ​[U+0465 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER IOTIFIED E] 15:26:21 I've never seen that one (except in gucharmap) 15:27:30 ye ye ye 15:27:44 sounds redundant 15:28:40 Probably an old character they need for historic works... like ゑ 15:29:09 (that's a hiragana 'we' ) 15:29:54 airplane crashing in the mountains 15:30:05 again? 15:30:20 oerjan: just freely interpreting ゑ 15:30:31 ic 15:30:42 * oerjan needs to catch up on recent changes before it slips off the 30 day limit 15:31:09 which 30 day limit, what, huh, stop changing the subject! 15:31:54 Oh, on the wiki, I guess. 15:33:42 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:39:43 yes 15:41:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:41:42 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Talk:QWERTY Keyboard Dot Language]]": content was: "xd" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/80.222.241.129|80.222.241.129]]") 15:43:17 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:43:41 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Talk:JSFuck]]": content was: "new Array().filter(callbackfn[, thisArg])" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]]") 15:46:37 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Batch file]]": Not esoteric 15:47:09 i seem to be brutal today 15:50:24 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Batch]]": Redirect to deleted page 15:55:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:55:31 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[ArrayZ]]": Author request: content before blanking was: "'''ArrayZ''' is a [[brainfuck]]-derived [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:GeorgeEpicGen]] in 2014 to serve one purpose only: to be as short-hand and confusing as possible. It was created over the course ..." 15:59:06 wait where was the author request 15:59:17 oh 16:00:12 [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42285&oldid=42158 * Oerjan * (+51) unsigned, hoping I got time zone right 16:00:38 Guest24483: in the edit summary for the blanking 16:00:44 yeah I saw 16:04:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:05:31 [wiki] [[ReThue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42286&oldid=42165 * Oerjan * (+17) wikify, not a good URL 16:05:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:09:20 stupid clicking noise from the ventilation system seems to be insisting on returning today 16:09:33 (it's always been _occasionally_ like this.) 16:10:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:10:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Should be going soon). 16:12:13 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:14:22 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:36:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:36:31 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 16:36:35 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 16:37:32 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:39:15 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:55:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:56:07 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 16:56:16 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 16:58:09 [wiki] [[ReThue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42287&oldid=42286 * SuperJedi224 * (-18) Fixed source/ 17:00:44 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 17:03:53 -!- zadock has joined. 17:19:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 17:24:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:25:20 -!- mihow has joined. 17:27:56 oerjan: grab the attitude adjustment tool 17:36:25 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Isaacg1 * New user account 17:39:43 [wiki] [[Pyth]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42288&oldid=40981 * Isaacg1 * (+65) 17:40:29 [wiki] [[Pyth]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42289&oldid=42288 * Isaacg1 * (+57) /* External resources */ 17:42:27 [wiki] [[Pyth]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42290&oldid=42289 * Isaacg1 * (-3232) /* Documentation */ 17:49:18 Guest24483: yes, it's part of an april fool's joke 17:49:45 how is an april fools joke esolang any different from a regular esolang 17:50:00 how is it different from a regular joke esolang? 17:51:20 `2014 hello 17:51:21 No output. 17:51:24 `2015 hello 17:51:28 No output. 17:51:45 `cat bin/2014 17:51:46 ​#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi 17:51:48 `cat bin/2015 17:51:50 ​#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) != "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi 17:52:06 aha, 2015 is a language that /doesn't/ work in 2015? 17:52:18 Evidently 17:54:22 that's interesting in another way 17:54:27 although I think http://esolangs.org/wiki/2014 is better 18:06:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:09:37 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:56 -!- stuntaneous_a has joined. 18:26:59 -!- stuntaneous_a has quit (Excess Flood). 18:27:17 -!- stuntaneous_a has joined. 18:27:19 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:27:19 -!- stuntaneous_a has quit (Excess Flood). 18:28:50 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 18:30:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:31:09 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:31:09 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:31:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:43:45 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:43:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:44:00 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:49:29 [wiki] [[Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42291&oldid=42252 * Rottytooth * (+61) 18:49:32 I believe the problem with trying to do FM synth in .XM is that you cannot have a modulator envelope independent from the note frequency. 18:52:57 (Except for having multiple samples, I suppose, but even then it is not exact unless you do it for each note!!) 19:04:52 -!- nycs has joined. 19:07:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:11:17 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:11:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:11:28 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:13:16 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 19:13:21 i have just been alerted, by the appearance of a procession outside, that there is a holiday today. 19:14:33 That's because it is Good Friday today 19:17:44 Don't you know these kind of thing? 19:18:50 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:18:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:19:54 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:19:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 19:20:09 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:20:14 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:23:39 ooh, Rust 1 beta 19:24:49 zzo38: I generally lose track of time when I'm really busy 19:27:03 Someone (who is an atheist) asked me, why is it good (if Jesus is dead)? I said, it is good because you don't have to go to work. 19:27:28 Hm... maybe it 19:27:37 is like "god friday"? 19:27:58 I don't know, possibly 19:29:02 * oren afk, getting cotton candy 19:36:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:37:37 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:38:02 zzo38: Christian teaching is that Jesus' death is the punishment for humanity's sin. So by the crucixion, the faithful's sins are absolved and they do not need to suffer the punishments themselves 19:39:39 coppro: Yes I know that. 19:41:47 But I think if it is good because sometimes you don't have to go to work! 19:44:08 I'm back bitches 19:45:29 Some people doubt Jesus's existence. Some others believe he existed but was not resurrected. I am of the latter, but still must say I don't know for sure (I am no historian!); however I also believe that it is pretty irrelevant for today other than as a historical study; the stories were written and now they exist, and they contain a lot of stuff. 19:46:10 You can do good works and you can do prayer and meditation and spirituality and whatever regardless of how accurate the Gospels are. 19:46:46 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:47:18 And then there's people who believe Jesus was buried in Shingou village, in Aomori Prefecture, Japan. 19:48:00 Well, that seems unlikely to me, but of course I don't know. 19:48:19 Why would he be in Japan? 19:49:13 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/GraveSign.jpg 19:49:21 Lots of stuff but nothing saying *why* Japan. 19:49:41 Japan is one hell of a long way away from Judea. 19:49:50 *Judaea 19:50:27 Yes, that's why it seems so unlikely to me. 19:51:14 pikhq: there's also people who believe that he was in North America when he was thought to be dead 19:51:33 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:51:41 * ais523 wonders how unlikely a statement has to be before /nobody/ believes it 19:51:56 at least, it seems likely that such a statement exists 19:52:09 the alternative is for some set of people to exist who collectively believe everything 19:52:39 -!- Vorpal has joined. 19:52:39 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 19:52:39 -!- Vorpal has joined. 19:53:47 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 19:54:13 ais523: "Nothing is false" 19:54:53 pikhq: I guess someone believing that either believes everything, or fails at logic 19:55:49 Though unlikely for humans, there hypothetically could exist minds that don't accept modus ponens... 19:56:00 -!- barrucadu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:56:05 There are various hypotheses as to what actually happened; some say the body was stolen, although even such people disagree as to how or why. The most likely scneario to me seems that his family took it to bury it in the family tomb and didn't tell anyone since it wasn't important. 19:57:10 zzo38: My belief is just that it's unlikely any individual person would be all that recognizable as "Jesus" from that time period. 19:57:50 Even if there is in fact a "Jesus" from Nazareth it seems rather unlikely said person's life much resembles the myth. 19:58:23 I read somewhere that the Jesus Seminar considers that the amount of resemblance is approx. 20% 19:58:39 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:58:41 pikhq: I think it's fairly likely such a person existed. 19:59:11 A prophet is just a cult leader that people never stopped listening to 19:59:33 Vorpal: I tried out the fisheye thing too, since you told me about it. 19:59:41 It's particularly weird some of the various omissions from records that, nevertheless, include other figures that people associate with Jesus... 20:00:03 (for instance, both John the Baptist and the apostle Paul are *quite* well attested.) 20:00:14 My own belief (although I must say I cannot be certain of anyy of this) is that Jesus of Nazareth probably did exist and was a Great Prophet. I do not believe in a final Great Prophet, though (even though most organized religion seems to) 20:00:58 Vorpal: The projection kind of makes this riverside view look like a lake, with the opposite shore being an isle. 20:01:00 But alas, I don't have a time machine. 20:01:13 Piecing shit together from sparse records is a tricky thing. :) 20:01:28 zzo38: Most organized religion doesn't actually believe that there is a "final" prophet 20:01:34 Neither do I, and furthermore I am not a historian, so I cannot do it as good as real historians anyways. 20:01:53 coppro: That tends to be common in Christian belief in particular, though. 20:02:02 Assuming one doesn't count the Pope as a prophet. 20:02:08 pikhq: Yes, but that is because Jesus is not, in Christian belief, a prophet. 20:02:15 True. 20:02:24 -!- barrucadu has joined. 20:02:55 He is quite specifically a divine being of some sort in that belief system. (precisely which sort depends on sect) 20:03:24 yes 20:03:43 He is a prophet in Islam, though. 20:04:08 And Baha'i. 20:05:11 Being a divine being of some sort does not seem to imply not being a prophet, as far as I can tell, though. 20:06:21 pikhq: true, but "$RELIGION accepts $DUDE as a prophet -> Baha'i accepts $DUDE as a prophet" :P 20:06:27 coppro: :) 20:09:38 coppro: Are you sure about that? 20:10:42 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:11:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:11:52 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:11:57 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 20:14:26 zzo38: no 20:14:31 it was facetious 20:17:53 I'm back bitches again 20:18:19 Guest61975: Explain! 20:18:35 Screw you, your legs will go POOF! 20:18:48 *Poofs* 20:20:12 -!- Guest61975 has left. 20:23:11 -!- Guest43464 has joined. 20:23:18 Back again! 20:23:25 Why? 20:23:54 Screw you! that's why! 20:25:20 Anyway 20:25:25 anyone heard of art magick? 20:25:33 No, I have not. 20:26:10 (I doubt others here have or care much either, but, I don't know. I don't really care much either though.) 20:27:17 What interests you zzo38 20:27:23 Wanna talk about it? 20:28:37 I don't really care what you wish to talk about though, but if you ask, well, I have studied many things, but I am interested in mathematics, and do much computer programming to. 20:29:25 interresting 20:29:32 please do speak about mathematics 20:30:32 I don't really have much to say right now though 20:30:36 Guest43464: you are acting oddly like Eliza… 20:31:43 Guest43464 knows that it is suspicious but he doesn't know who the hell that is 20:32:23 I think it is possible they merely made a mistake and he wasn't completely dead when they put him in the tomeb 20:32:39 oren: I did consider that possibility too 20:32:53 Seriously is that guy Misao Okawa? 20:33:38 Misao Okawa was the oldest woman in the world until she died a few days ago 20:33:44 I do have one thing to say about logic too, which is that in my opinion, logic is a math, and reasoning is the application of logic; some consider logic and reasoning to be the same thing but I do not. 20:37:43 I don't know what your opinion about these things are. 20:45:39 In my course "knowledge representation and reasoning" we learned different "logics" including "propositional logic" and "first-order logic"; and then we also learned different processes of "reasoning" which take a set of logical statements and produce a new one from them. 20:46:22 So sort of "logic" is the language and "reasoning" is the runtime? 20:48:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:49:36 O, that's the course? I haven't heard of that course either 20:49:59 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:01:09 zzo38: I dunno if they have that course at other universities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_representation_and_reasoning 21:30:54 Oh, this is a nice thought... a self-driving car could avoid parking tickets. 21:31:36 (Apparently Tesla produced an April fool's video which embedded this idea.) 21:32:36 Hmm. April's fool's video. April's fool video. Glad this grammatical swamp will be irrelevant for the next 360 days. 21:34:44 int-e: the idea is that if the time parked is about to expire, it drives off without its owner? 21:36:03 ais523: right, or perhaps even later, when a parking enforcement officer approaches. 21:36:47 the latter would be dangerous; in the UK, most parking enforcement's done via CCTV nowadays 21:38:01 Yeah, but that's a technical detail. I'm picturing a scene in a movie: the officer approaches the car, trying to affix the ticket; the car backs away... It's completely unrealistic, but hilarious. 21:38:29 (Useless too because then the license plate information will already have been taken down.) 21:39:44 (Ultimately, the car, surrounded by traffic enforcement personnel, would sprout wings and fly away.) 21:50:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:50:45 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:59:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:03:55 Someone (who is an atheist) asked me, why is it good (if Jesus is dead)? I said, it is good because you don't have to go to work. <-- that also confused me once. in norwegian it's called the equivalent of "long friday" instead. 22:05:07 * oerjan is suddenly tempted to ban Guest*!* 22:05:43 especially that pesky Guest24483 22:06:32 oerjan: you seem to have guest their secret identity 22:07:31 now to find some kryptonite... 22:07:33 I feel like some of these constraint things ought to be filed as separate GHC tickets. 22:07:42 Uh, I'm not very Christian. Good Friday is a day of mourning, but also a day of hope?! 22:08:14 presumably the first part is only in the morning 22:08:18 int-e: it was pretty much explained in the logs, i was just commenting on the naming 22:08:29 Oh. Good. 22:08:59 I still have the tradition on Good Friday to not eat meat, but still eat fish and chips. (I do not consider myself a Christian either though.) 22:09:21 shachaf: happy passover, or something 22:09:58 I think Passover is on Saturday; it says so on my calendar. 22:10:15 (It is also Holy Saturday) 22:10:56 i was going by wikipedia's main page, also i believe jewish days start at sunset. 22:11:23 i may of course be too early, pesky time zones. 22:11:57 Oh Saturday morning. 22:12:23 no, friday evening 22:12:44 well i guess we have saturday morning here, sort of 22:12:50 * int-e wonders where oerjan is right now. 22:12:57 norway hth 22:13:02 just past midnight 22:13:08 oh you already agreed, sort of. 22:14:29 something to test which i don't think will work with the new system 22:16:11 > let f :: forall a. Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep; f _ = typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy a) 22:16:12 : 22:16:12 not an expression: ‘let f :: forall a. Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep;... 22:16:17 oops 22:16:41 > let f :: forall a. Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep; f _ = typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy a) in f (Proxy Ord) 22:16:42 Not in scope: data constructor ‘Ord’ 22:16:42 Perhaps you meant variable ‘ord’ (imported from Data.Char) 22:16:48 argh 22:16:52 > let f :: forall a. Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep; f _ = typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy a) in f (Proxy :: Proxy Ord) 22:16:54 Could not deduce (Typeable Proxy) arising from a use of ‘typeOf’ 22:16:54 from the context (Typeable a) 22:16:54 bound by the type signature for 22:16:59 there you go 22:17:20 oerjan: just download ghc 7.10 hth 22:17:29 i'm waiting for the platform 22:17:32 I haven't used the Haskell platform for years. 22:17:43 Oh, I guess it's a bigger hassle on Windows. 22:18:24 anyway, it cannot deduce Typeable (Proxy a) from Typeable a when the kind is polymorphic 22:18:56 in fact, i don't think you can get the kindRep for k from the dictionary for Typeable (a::k) at all 22:19:02 The error is pretty confusing. 22:19:22 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy Proxy) 22:19:23 No instance for (Typeable Proxy) 22:19:23 (maybe you haven't applied enough arguments to a function?) 22:19:23 arising from a use of ‘typeRep’ 22:19:47 oh hm 22:20:04 isn't that just kind not defaulting 22:20:20 Do you expect it to default? 22:20:32 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: * -> *)) 22:20:33 Proxy 22:20:47 I thought, if the programming language can be made which is using RDF as the input format, and which includes macros, aspect programming, logic programming, and may be made in such a way to be suitable it can implement the rules and cards of Magic: the Gathering and other similar games. 22:20:53 no, but in my example the kind is known 22:21:10 But with many things figured at compile-time 22:22:14 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 22:25:28 :k HList 22:25:28 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘HList’ 22:26:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:26:07 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:27:12 oerjan: Why is the kind known in your case? 22:27:14 @let pt :: forall a. Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep; pt _ = typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy a) 22:27:15 .L.hs:186:8: 22:27:15 Could not deduce (Typeable Proxy) arising from a use of ‘typeOf’ 22:27:15 from the context (Typeable a) 22:27:31 shachaf: because the type is known 22:28:32 hm actually 22:28:45 @let pt :: forall a. Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep; pt x = typeOf x 22:28:46 .L.hs:186:8: 22:28:46 Could not deduce (Typeable Proxy) arising from a use of ‘typeOf’ 22:28:46 from the context (Typeable a) 22:28:58 lovely 22:29:02 :t typeOf 22:29:03 Typeable a => a -> TypeRep 22:29:28 oerjan: get ghci 7.10.1 installed already 22:29:33 @let pt :: forall a. Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep; pt = typeOf 22:29:34 .L.hs:183:6: 22:29:34 Could not deduce (Typeable Proxy) arising from a use of ‘typeOf’ 22:29:34 from the context (Typeable a) 22:29:46 but i'm also demonstrating :( 22:29:49 or at least use private messages 22:29:58 you're demonstrating lack of restraint 22:30:05 HOW DARE YOU 22:30:14 typeOf :: Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep -- is also the same error hth 22:30:25 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:31:19 it is a funny one though, this works in ghci... 22:31:50 int-e: without PolyKinds, i assume? 22:31:51 :k () :: Constraint 22:31:52 Constraint 22:31:59 oerjan: ah there's that... 22:32:07 right 22:38:07 oerjan: http://sprunge.us/Yhdd sheds a bit more light on this. But now it's full of shadows. 22:40:21 int-e: the reason, as i suspect it, is that the new typeable solver doesn't try to transfer kind information at all; in fact TypeRep for the type a doesn't necessarily contain enough information to deduce its kind without access to compiler data. 22:40:43 it's designed such that type application works, but little more. 22:41:08 e.g. 22:41:11 oerjan: No, it goes deeper to the foundations. You cannot talk about a type `a` without knowing its kind first. So ghc invents a context k :: BOX => for pt's type. 22:41:52 Oh. Nah, there's no contradiction there. 22:42:32 the foundations don't prevent you from hypothetically making a TypeRep that _does_ contain the necessary information. 22:42:39 You want something like class Kindable k => Typeable (a :: k), and ghc doesn't do it that way. 22:42:44 yep 22:42:55 or at least something that fakes it 22:43:19 which is what i discussed with Richard Eisenberg in the trac with test cases 22:43:59 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:44:01 although i guess if no one has made code that was actually broken by this... 22:44:27 The downside, perhaps, is that this would have to be explicit in the TypeRep that the Typeable class instances carry? 22:44:55 i guess mixing Typeable with code kind polymorphic enough to need this is not happening 22:45:10 (i could imagine something with DataKinds) 22:45:33 int-e: well yeah, you'd need a representation of the _whole_ kind 22:45:59 rather than just the core kind parameters 22:46:46 * Taneb *yawn* 22:47:32 Taneb: go to bed hth 22:47:41 oerjan, I need to book a train ticket! 22:48:04 And then like put my duvet cover on my duvet 22:48:05 and you need to wait until after midnight to do it? 22:48:15 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 22:48:21 for stupid price reasons? 22:48:44 No, I'm doing it now 22:48:49 fiendish 22:48:50 I was just procrastinating 22:48:59 And now it is suddenly the last minute 22:49:03 * int-e does such things for "I can still do this when I'm too tired to do all this other more interesting stuff" reasons. 22:49:32 * Taneb has booked train ticket 22:49:38 Just make sure you got the date correct! 22:50:02 Too late now! 22:50:34 I started to type this before you announced it was already done. So I had a "get" there initially. 22:50:38 * oerjan recalls the time he had ordered a train ticket for the day after the DST change 22:51:08 Oh, DST ... *twiddles with watch* 22:51:22 int-e: you're a number of days late... 22:51:29 no I'll wait 5 more minutes so it doesn't affect the date 22:51:55 oerjan: I know. I hardly ever look at my pocket watch, and then usually only to check whether I have to run for the bus. 22:52:40 last time i took the bus i made the mistake of looking at the bus table i'd got by mail 22:52:57 (the "pocket" watch is a wrist watch without the bands) 22:53:42 not remembering that they'd had a major budgeting scandal and had had to downsize everything. so the bus schedule i was going to take had been canceled. 22:53:52 :/ 22:54:25 fortunately i didn't miss my appointment. 22:57:26 there, 1 am now on that watch 22:57:53 (it's a bit fast. that's healthy since ... I'm using it to check whether I have to run for buses and the buses tend to be a bit early ;-) ) 23:01:06 i try to make sure it's not late, but i don't compensate for anyone else being early 23:02:47 Hmm 23:02:51 My train is at 10:53 23:03:03 It is a 40 minute walk to the station, but I want to stop at the shops on the way 23:03:15 so go to bed now. 23:03:37 * int-e tries to remember Taneb's time zone 23:03:43 @time taneb 23:03:44 Local time for Taneb is Sat Apr 4 00:05:42 23:03:54 So I probably want to leave before 10 23:03:58 Probably closer to half 9 23:04:12 . o O ( half past 9? ) 23:04:18 Yes 23:04:22 * int-e is used to halb 9 meaning 8:30. 23:04:35 dito 23:04:41 I think "half 9" meaning half past nine is a British thing 23:04:45 oh german is like norwegian then 23:04:45 (German speakers are not in agreement about this.) 23:04:50 oh 23:05:04 I was taught that in German, "halb 9" meant 8:30 23:05:05 huh? 23:05:07 as an English speaker 23:05:08 it does 23:05:12 however, in English "half 9" would always be 9:30 23:05:23 halb 9 in germany is 8:30 23:05:47 (It's worse about viertel (quarter) 9 and dreiviertel 9 (three quarter 9) meaning 8:15 and 8:45; many states prefer the viertel vor/viertel nach (quarter to/quarter past) versions.) 23:05:50 ais523, I am told that is more a British thing rather than something agreed upon throughout the anglosphere 23:05:59 s/about/with/ 23:06:25 Taneb: English English, then 23:06:25 int-e: i think "um 1" is more interesting 23:06:35 (The logical explanation is that this says how much of the 9th hour has passed.) 23:06:45 myname: same explanation 23:06:48 almost sure it's the same in the rest of the UK, and I think it's the same in the US too 23:06:55 there are regions where it is exactly 13:00 and others where it id around 13:00 23:07:25 to me it'd just as likely be 1am 23:07:27 myname: ah. Ok, for the regions where this means exactly 13:00, that's the point where the 1st hour has passed. (ist um). 23:07:48 (I'm used to that meaning.) 23:08:07 (The other is "gegen 1") 23:09:02 "um 1" is meant as "um 1 rum" in the second 23:09:16 I am going to go to bed now 23:09:18 Goodnight 23:09:28 dol um ber ist 23:09:42 Taneb: have a safe trip 23:09:57 Thank you 23:10:11 (I'm literally going to the next city over to play D&D) 23:10:12 to me, the funniest thing is that there are three things that are called pfannkuchen, depending on the region 23:10:22 Taneb: don't die ;) 23:10:46 and try not to kill any GMs either 23:10:58 Taneb: Which city is the next over? 23:11:02 shachaf, Leeds 23:11:08 or DMs, whatever. 23:11:45 shachaf, I'll try 23:12:00 shachaf, (from York) 23:13:04 /s/shachaf, I/int-e, I/ 23:13:24 Anyway, I must be off 23:13:27 Goodnight! 23:15:54 [wiki] [[Wordy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42292&oldid=42171 * Oerjan * (-73) wikify a bit, also we have our own .Gertrude page 23:21:04 [wiki] [[Taworvor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42293&oldid=42225 * Oerjan * (+10) standardifimogrify section name 23:22:04 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:31:52 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42294&oldid=42223 * Oerjan * (-24) wikify a bit, remove some blank lines 23:36:11 -!- variable has joined. 23:37:51 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42295&oldid=42240 * Oerjan * (+9) wikify intro, section headers 2015-04-04: 00:00:21 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:01:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:02:00 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:02:12 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:22:03 helloerjan 00:22:08 having fun cleaning up? 00:22:31 [wiki] [[Yoob]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42296&oldid=42242 * Oerjan * (-38) Undo revision 42242 by [[Special:Contributions/5.29.33.254|5.29.33.254]] ([[User talk:5.29.33.254|talk]]) 00:22:42 MAYBE 00:25:39 [wiki] [[Talk:Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42297&oldid=42276 * Oerjan * (-26) Undo revision 42276 by [[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]] ([[User talk:Esowiki201529A|talk]]) (Wat) 00:30:49 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Talk:Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]]": content was: "这个正确的名字是“十六进制堆栈式伪汇编语言”" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]]") 00:35:38 there, now i can slack on visiting the wiki for another half month or so 00:50:05 -!- CADD has joined. 00:50:42 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:50:59 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:53:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:53:44 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 01:06:45 oerjan: oh I have an unsolved puzzle... write a module that only exports (GHC.Prim.*) 01:07:10 (you've played with this much more than I have, maybe you know a way?) 01:10:22 hm i haven't played with _that_ 01:10:43 quite possibly you're the one who showed me how you could import GHC.Prim.* in the first place 01:12:01 can you even write a module that exports (GHC.Prim.*) _plus_ other things? 01:13:01 it would seem that module ... (module GHC.Prim) would have the same problem as Constraint. 01:13:05 yes, by reexporting the whole module 01:13:20 oh that works? 01:13:58 let me verify... 01:14:59 :browse GHC.Exts ... data (*) 01:15:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:16:08 i,i module M (module GHC.Prim) where import GHC.Prim hiding (...) 01:16:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:16:47 Maybe this has the same issue as Constraint that you've been talkinga bout. 01:16:49 int-e: Constraint doesn't get through that way, at least. 01:16:49 about 01:17:06 Probably it does because otherwise why would you be bringing this up. 01:17:30 -!- mihow has joined. 01:17:43 note that the (*) does not even exist in ghc-7.8 01:18:21 oerjan: so, contrary to what I thought, you probably have not played with it :) 01:18:23 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 01:18:24 int-e: um in ghc-7.8 i can see GHC.Prim.* 01:19:02 (GHC.Prim.*) :: BOX 01:19:03 hmmmm 01:19:29 Oh, my testing is flawed. 01:20:06 So yeah, it's in GHC.Prim but (visibly anyway) not reexported from GHC.Exts 01:20:23 What exactly does BOX do? 01:20:28 s/(\(.*\)) (not)/\2 \1/ 01:20:41 when i do module T ((*),Constraint) where import GHC.Prim 01:20:45 zzo38: it's superkind, the kind of kinds. 01:20:53 and :m T (to remove the * before T) 01:21:06 then i can see the Constraint but not the * 01:21:28 oerjan: try that with {-# LANGUAGE NoImplicitPrelude #-} to remove the other (*). 01:21:44 zzo38: it's the "kind of kinds" in GHC core, you're not supposed to be able to refer to it 01:21:56 then ghc will complain about not being able to find (*), I think. 01:22:06 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:22:23 well i tried import Prelude () 01:22:28 and yes that 01:24:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:24:21 ooh fancy 01:24:36 int-e: you can export it if you rename it with a type 01:26:15 oh except then it thinks it's a type not a kind 01:26:26 funny though, still with kind BOX 01:26:27 It is a type. 01:26:56 Or, at least, it's a thing that has a kind. 01:27:02 :k (Proxy :: S -> S) 01:27:03 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘S’ 01:27:03 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘S’ 01:27:07 BOX also has a kind (BOX) 01:27:17 gives me the error ‘S’ of kind ‘BOX’ is not promotable 01:27:31 (type S = (GHC.Prim.*)) 01:27:39 -!- mihow has joined. 01:43:04 oerjan: this is what I'm playing with: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/haskell/safe/ 01:43:08 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:46:36 (I guess the main purpose of the GHC.Prim.Safe module is to convince myself that it's unmanagable that way.) 01:47:05 why are you commenting out coerce? 01:47:21 Because Data.Coerce is the official way to get that one 01:47:35 hm 01:47:49 So I'm anticipating the export getting deprecated. 01:48:20 Oh, Data.Coerce is unsafe, hmm. 01:48:30 and are all those unboxed shifts unsafe, even the ones not unchecked* ? 01:48:31 That is... interesting. 01:48:47 huh 01:49:33 oerjan: I suspected that adding primops would open a can of worms. They're probably safe, but look at the Prim_Safe module... 01:50:36 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 01:50:40 i guess lack of documentation of what _is_ safe is a problem 01:50:43 (The plan was to add primops by replacing GHC.Prim by GHC.Prim.Safe.) 01:51:04 as well as enormosity 01:51:30 And platform-dependent primops. 01:51:52 I wonder if there are more subtle catches like the quot/rem one. 01:53:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:53:43 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 01:55:22 oerjan: in any case to make it manageable, the information should probably be handled by the primop generator infrastrucure (so the safety information would be in primops.txt.pp, mostly) 01:56:19 (this beautiful file: https://github.com/ghc/ghc/blob/master/compiler/prelude/primops.txt.pp ) 02:01:39 mkay 02:12:23 (As you can see on #haskell I guess the reason for making Data.Coerce unsafe is that coerce can break abstraction boundaries that SafeHaskell is supposed to preserve, if libraries are not careful enough with the (rather new) type roles.) 02:13:57 huh 02:16:34 (SafeHaskell is somewhat blurry. coerce by itself is type-safe. But what if you have a module like Data.Map with representational key type, and use it to implement a trusted type-polymorphic key-value store? Who is to blame if the user coerces the map to one with a different Ord instance for the key type?) 02:16:56 I'm not sure. 02:31:05 -!- MDude has joined. 02:38:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:38:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:38:18 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 02:40:28 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:50:07 -!- dianne has joined. 02:52:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:31:20 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42298 * Esowiki201529A * (+94) Created page with "== example: Infinite loop ==
 !/\  \/ 
== See also == [[SNUSP]] [[Category: No IO]]" 03:32:46 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42299&oldid=42298 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) 03:36:58 [wiki] [[SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42300&oldid=39080 * Esowiki201529A * (+18) 03:38:49 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42301&oldid=42299 * Esowiki201529A * (+26) 03:39:29 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 03:43:38 [wiki] [[SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42302&oldid=42300 * Esowiki201529A * (+17) 04:03:43 -!- ais523 has quit. 04:03:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:06:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:06:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:11:46 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:20:17 -!- variable has joined. 04:22:27 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:25:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:25:57 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:30:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:35:04 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 04:44:09 -!- variable has joined. 04:49:03 Do you know what program to use to test .XI instruments? 04:49:24 I know I can use OpenMPT but it requires too many steps to test it in that way 04:54:29 (It also sometimes crashes) 05:15:58 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 05:16:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:16:10 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 05:17:29 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 05:20:03 -!- scarf has joined. 05:20:04 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:20:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:20:46 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 05:28:50 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:29:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:04:00 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:13:41 -!- cwe_aza has joined. 06:15:43 -!- cwe_aza has left. 06:35:21 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 06:50:41 -!- hjulle has joined. 07:38:39 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:41:27 -!- Guest43464 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:54:54 https://github.com/fogleman/nes 08:55:43 needs more rust 08:55:55 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 09:14:28 does it? 10:04:21 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:04:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:08:43 Very rainy week in switzerland. 10:09:21 > 5500 * 0.7 10:09:23 3849.9999999999995 10:09:33 oh well. I should be able to live off 3.8k CHF 10:11:19 > 850/3800 10:11:21 0.2236842105263158 10:14:15 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 10:17:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:17:56 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 10:32:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:32:26 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 10:35:18 -!- rodgort` has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:38:24 -!- rodgort has joined. 10:42:08 . o O ( As a rule, conventional wisdom is wrong. ) 10:55:36 oh nice April's fool, subtle... http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=040115 10:55:42 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:56:49 http://pastebin.com/VUHSr0JV 11:02:32 That's not delphi though :) 11:12:35 [wiki] [[SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42303&oldid=42302 * Ais523 * (-17) Undo revision 42302 by [[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]] ([[User talk:Esowiki201529A|talk]]) - I don't think that word means what you think it means 11:15:05 -!- v4s has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 11:15:21 -!- v4s has joined. 11:15:30 -!- callforjudgement has quit. 11:28:10 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:17:09 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Small_SNUSP is a good page 12:20:10 elliott: I can hear your sarcastic undertone. 12:29:41 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42304&oldid=42301 * 213.162.68.171 * (+141) Add no description 12:30:04 There, now everybody should be happy *ducks* 12:55:22 -!- nys has joined. 12:59:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:06:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:06:46 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hugs~ <3). 13:08:31 -!- Lymia has joined. 13:17:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:19:38 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:22:20 Was there a particular name for a diagonal matrix where all the diagonal elements are equal? (Context: covariance matrix for multivariate Gaussian distribution; I know "spherical" is the term for the resulting distribution, but that's not a generic term for the kind of matrix. In fact, "spherical matrix" seems to be something related to matrix variate distributions.) 13:22:25 A "diagonal Toeplitz matrix" might be technically correct but really silly. 13:23:21 "scalar matrix"? 13:23:29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagonal_matrix 13:23:47 I see "scaled identity matrix" in a few places, but that's just a description. 13:23:47 Makes sense (I just found the same page.) 13:23:54 scaled identity matrix, yes 13:24:26 I even thought it might be "scalar matrix", but for some reason didn't search for it. 13:24:50 Although in a sentence like "[matrix] is constrained to be diagonal or scalar" it sounds a bit silly. 13:25:02 "How can it be a scalar if it's a MxM matrix?" 13:25:12 Well, in a sentence like that, you can just say it's constrained to be diagonal. 13:26:19 But that's not exactly equivalent. I was trying to say that occasionally it's "more constrained" than just diagonal, if you want even fewer parameters for your distributions. 13:27:32 Maybe it's not too bad to say 'scalar'. 13:27:32 ... is constrained to be diagonal (or even scalar). 13:27:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:28:05 * int-e swats ----### oerjan for swatting too much. 13:28:33 your swatter's too short hth 13:28:45 it's a practice swatter 13:28:49 * oerjan hits int-e with the saucepan ===\__/ 13:28:59 Maybe you can say that all its eigenvalues are equal or something silly like that. 13:29:05 I don't know. 13:29:11 It's 06:31. Good time to go to sleep. 13:29:26 that's about when i went to sleep 13:29:43 and now look at you, hitting people with saucepans 13:30:16 Well that escalated quickly. 13:30:31 * int-e drops a lift cabin on oerjan, for sake of the pun. 13:30:40 darn i was considering that 13:33:48 oh nice April's fool, subtle... http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=040115 <-- oh so that's what it was. i was following the links from freefall but couldn't find _any_ april fool comics in the others. 13:34:20 oh wait there was one 13:34:39 -!- zadock has joined. 13:34:43 a meta one, where the joke was that there was no april 1 comic 13:45:31 oerjan: the brilliancy is, until the next Vexxar comic is published, it could actually be true. 13:46:40 oerjan: except that after a decade of comics it'd be rather strange to pull a "it was all just a dream" trope. 13:48:14 you'd think 13:48:42 as I said 13:49:00 brilliant. 15:09:07 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:09:33 -!- yorick has joined. 15:25:19 -!- TieSoul has joined. 15:27:55 -!- boily has joined. 15:31:03 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:54:42 @metar CYQB 15:54:43 CYQB 041544Z 34009KT 1 1/2SM -SN BKN012 OVC020 M04/M08 A2975 RMK SN3SC3SC2 SLP078 15:54:50 fungot: why. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY! 15:54:50 boily: have you considered just using ( list " hi there! say, what would he reply? 15:55:12 fungot: no, I didn't consider what you would reply. 15:55:12 boily: telling jokes, looking stupid or just generally to squares, or whatever... " i've done a lot of 15:55:33 are you relieved, fungot? 15:55:33 b_jonas: lazy k is done. 15:55:37 yep 15:57:50 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 16:06:27 fungot: oh goody 16:06:27 int-e: ummm...i dont know. they were very prompt about putting it on the web 16:06:32 @metar EGLL 16:06:33 EGLL 041550Z 04006KT 9999 SCT023 BKN040 08/03 Q1024 NOSIG 16:06:54 no 16:07:20 fungot: Are you saying they put it on the web too fast, and it's not really done yet? 16:07:20 fizzie: just a tic. laundry. 16:07:27 fungot: Okay, take your time. 16:07:27 fizzie: it's that one song...? :p. ugh i need to generate it, not official. 16:07:43 fungot: no, the whole episode 16:07:43 b_jonas: or something like that. complain complain complain. but it's easier. and no one wants to do a 16:08:47 -!- f|`-`|f_ has joined. 16:12:08 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:12:12 -!- f|`-`|f_ has changed nick to f|`-`|f. 16:15:07 @metar CYYZ 16:15:08 CYYZ 041600Z 29013G19KT 250V310 15SM BKN045 03/M08 A3009 RMK CU7 SLP196 16:16:19 fiziello. helloren. 16:16:39 b_jellonas too! 16:16:48 helloily 16:18:47 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:21:39 "Jellona" is a humorous/"cute" term for a lion in Finnish. 16:21:46 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jellona 16:22:06 (By way of mangling from leijona.) 16:23:04 is leijona related to Nepeta Leijon? 16:23:29 I've wondered about that. 16:23:38 But I don't know. 16:24:15 "-- Leijon is taken from the surname of Anna-Greta Leijon, who was a Swedish Minister of Immigration in 1976 and victim of a kidnapping plot dubbed Operation Leo. The Swedish word lejon ("leijon" is the archaic spelling) means "lion", and is pronounced LAY-on. Also, the Finnish word for lion is leijona." 16:24:51 `thanks mspa wiki 16:24:54 Thanks, mspa wiki. Tha wiki. 16:25:00 Tha wiki. 16:46:43 Oh god 16:46:54 I forgot it's 4th of april already 16:47:47 Wait, nevermind, it's 13th of april I'm waiting for 16:47:54 9 more days to go 16:48:47 FreelloFull. what's happening on that Fateful Day? 16:49:54 -!- Lautner has joined. 16:51:14 `rello Lautner 16:51:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rello: not found 16:51:26 `relcome Lautner 16:51:40 ​Lautner: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:51:43 hey 16:51:49 All the best :D 16:52:08 whazzuuup 16:52:10 :D 16:52:13 people 16:58:52 -!- Lautner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:59:03 -!- Lautner has joined. 17:01:14 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:03:39 fizzie: What a cute metathesis. 17:04:46 `thanks metathesis 17:04:47 Thanks, metathesis. Thetathesis. 17:05:00 Thetathesis sounds like a particle physics thing. 17:05:09 HackEgo: i'm sorry but you were supposed to say Thetamesis tdnh 17:05:27 -!- Lautner has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:06:07 Of course, it makes one wonder how German got “Löwe” from the same source. 17:06:27 it's løve in norwegian hth 17:06:40 -!- Lautner has joined. 17:07:03 Come to Kenya, we've got løver. 17:07:20 The song even refers Norway. 17:07:39 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hugs~ <3). 17:07:48 -!- Lymia has joined. 17:08:01 "From Middle High German lewe, from Old High German leo (both with variants), from Latin leō." 17:08:29 Apparently Norwegian got it from Middle Low German. 17:08:37 "From Old Swedish leon, from Latin leo." 17:08:52 oh right, it's leo, leonis in latin 17:09:28 standard dropping of -n from nominative 17:10:30 borrowed from greek, which had -n everywhere 17:10:34 er, -n- 17:11:21 or -ν- 17:12:19 Is “-ν-” a hook-nose emoticon? 17:12:46 whereas latin has -us everywhere 17:12:48 no it's a greek letter infixed hth 17:12:58 b_jonas: um not in that word hth 17:13:11 but a lot of them, for sure 17:13:41 apparently wiktionary manages to construct the entire greek declension from {{grc-decl-3rd-οντ-prx|form=M-full|λ|έ|ε}} 17:14:50 "Many ancient languages possessed similar words for lion, including Akkadian 𒌨 (labbu) (reconstructed to Proto-Semitic *labiʾ-). It is unclear who borrowed the word from whom, though the ultimate source is likely not Indo-European." 17:15:03 `unidecode 𒌨 17:15:06 ​[U+12328 CUNEIFORM SIGN UR] 17:17:08 Amazingly, I have that font 17:17:15 i don't hth 17:17:54 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 17:18:43 https://i.imgur.com/5o58LfX.png 17:18:44 hth 17:19:49 -!- kshdecko has joined. 17:22:09 -!- Lautner has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:26:17 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hugs~ <3). 17:29:09 -!- Lymia has joined. 17:30:35 -!- Lymia has quit (Client Quit). 17:32:33 -!- Lymia has joined. 17:39:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:40:28 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:00:42 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:06:31 -!- Lautner has joined. 18:07:58 -!- kshdecko has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:12:20 -!- Lautner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:14:58 ProofTechnique: very cuneiform thx 18:15:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:18:11 -!- Lautner has joined. 18:20:29 fungot: is there a cuneiform character for chicken twh? 18:20:29 boily: hipe iirc is the name of the exception 18:20:44 fungot: so, no char because of hipe? 18:20:45 boily: once we do the fnord on proton are very fnord don't necessarily have anything on paper about this 18:21:07 A cuneiform chicken needs subatomic fnords. understood. 18:29:02 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:34:30 -!- Lautner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:35:32 -!- Lautner has joined. 18:45:19 Why does charmap crash when I try to start it from the command prompt? 18:46:05 no idea. it works fine when I do it 18:48:57 It works now, after I closed and reopened the command prompt 18:50:52 -!- kshdecko has joined. 18:51:09 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:54:08 -!- Lautner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:56:42 -!- Lautner has joined. 18:58:34 -!- kshdecko has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:08:56 -!- Lautner has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:20:17 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:39:12 [wiki] [[!!!Batch]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42305&oldid=39046 * 73.184.106.177 * (+1) Fixed typo 19:51:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:01:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:05:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:13:57 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:50:12 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 21:04:22 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 21:06:20 -!- supay has changed nick to supay_away. 21:23:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:27 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:49:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:51:57 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 21:53:39 There's an announcement on nethack.org 22:03:53 it's very ominous. 22:04:12 @ask ais523 hello! what with the nethack.org announcement from yesterday? 22:04:12 Consider it noted. 22:04:25 @tell ais523 (yesterday being April 3 hth) 22:04:25 Consider it noted. 22:07:42 coppro ping 22:20:06 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:20:18 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 22:20:33 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:20:49 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 22:35:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:42:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:43:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:48:15 -!- augur has joined. 22:55:01 wtf is pubnub... 22:56:22 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:56:37 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 22:57:54 `r13 pubnub 22:57:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: r13: not found 22:58:02 `rot13 pubnub 22:58:07 choaho 22:58:22 sounds plausible. 22:58:38 funpubs 23:00:03 -!- vodkode has joined. 23:01:55 Another fun big data company. Ostensibly they provide real-time data distribution for web applications, but they also analyze the traffic. 23:02:26 nsanub 23:02:31 Founded 2010, surely took me a long time to stumble upon them. 23:03:48 (It seems I could've found them already in late 2013, humblebundle was already one of their customers back then.) 23:04:05 `rot13 humblebundle 23:04:11 uhzoyrohaqyr 23:04:40 clearly a hebrew company 23:04:56 `rot13 phevbfvgl xvyyrq gur png 23:04:57 curiosity killed the cat 23:05:28 (I had not realized that png is rot13 for cat, I woner whether this explains the obsession of the internet with those creatures...) 23:05:31 *wonder 23:06:01 V'Z FXRCGVPNY 23:06:30 Vs lbh fnl fb... 23:07:17 v qb 23:08:10 the next step after learning to read rot13 code is to be able to speak it fluently 23:09:12 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 23:09:34 cyrnfr gryy zr gung lbh'er xvqqvat 23:10:45 (I'm using cut&paste and `tr` for this) 23:11:01 i didn't say _i_ could do it. i'm just now disappointed i don't find any youtube videos. 23:11:22 "how to read rot13 in 26 easy steps"? 23:11:27 surely a proper linguist should have no problems 23:11:43 s/"/"Learn / 23:11:59 erm learning to read it is of course essentially trivial compared to any unknown natural language 23:12:15 but _aloud_ might take a bit of practice. 23:12:28 unless you're bilingually czech-georgian. 23:12:57 I've used pubnub for senior project 23:13:17 int-e: i used cut and paste for most of this too 23:13:20 Can't anybody do anything by themselves anymore... 23:14:36 (That was a comment about pubnub.) 23:14:53 i managed to make out "Vs lbh fnl fb..." without, though. although i sort of cheated by looking at the above translations. 23:15:03 https://xkcd.com/908/ 23:16:01 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 23:16:25 Whenever I hear "cloud computing" I picture the data as rain. 23:16:54 aloud computing 23:17:10 oerjan: that's just the fans blowin 23:18:24 fizzie: so I learned today that the rot14 of "zem.fi" is "nsa.tw" 23:18:28 I'm worried. 23:21:39 !zemjoust url_lbh 停止窺探! 23:21:52 !help 23:21:52 oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. 23:21:53 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 23:21:57 !zjoust url_lbh 停止窺探! 23:21:58 oerjan.url_lbh: points -30.10, score 3.83, rank 47/47 23:24:38 huh. curious how hey rots to url 23:25:17 serendipity 23:25:24 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:26:11 Frooxius: are you a bilingual czech-georgian and can you read rot-13 aloud fluently 23:27:01 rot-13 english, that is. rot-13 czech is probably easy to pronounce. 23:27:28 `rot13 Strč prst skrz krk 23:27:34 Fgeč cefg fxem xex 23:27:44 xex 23:27:56 well, easier than the original, anyway 23:29:30 `rot13 Mgrvgrvladje 23:29:31 Zteiteiynqwr 23:29:40 yep, holds for georgian too 23:30:25 * oerjan notes himself in the google result 23:30:29 `thanks Mgrvgrvladje 23:30:30 Thanks, Mgrvgrvladje. Thadje. 23:30:43 good, `thanks now works with it 23:32:02 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:32:03 hmph google translate doesn't have transcription for georgian 23:32:24 `thanks спасибо 23:32:25 Thanks, спасибо. Tпасибо. 23:33:01 `thanks danke 23:33:03 Thanks, danke. Thanke. 23:33:24 oh hm it's possible the "Georgian Latin" virtual keyboard is actual qwerty in disguise 23:33:28 *+ly 23:33:51 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 23:33:56 +*ly 23:34:01 NOOO he didn't answer 23:34:08 no edirc. 23:36:18 ok მგრვგრვლადჯე turns into mgrvgrvladje in GT but no google hits :( 23:36:52 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:37:09 i am slightly troubled by the fact the only mentions i've seen of the name is about how it's the largest number of initial consonants word 23:38:26 hm come to think of it i'm pretty sure i tried to cobble the georgian spelling together from wikipedia's alphabet page once 23:42:29 FireFly: You don't have to be worried unless you live in Taiwan hth 23:42:54 Good, tdsh 23:45:32 funny how georgian letters are completely indecipherable to latin scripters but parts of the alphabet order is clearly related to greek 23:48:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:51:35 -!- augur has joined. 23:58:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 2015-04-05: 00:07:09 -!- augur has joined. 00:13:22 -!- variable has joined. 00:14:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:37:01 I hate not having a real computer 00:37:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:37:15 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 00:37:28 -!- augur has joined. 00:40:23 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:40:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:42:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:48:05 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:51:35 oerjan: armenian letters are somewhat approximatively related to latin letters, with some graphical concordances (e.g. h and o). 00:51:52 SgeoPhone: to which degree isn't your computer real? 00:52:54 To the degree that the device i am using cannot be used for most of thw things a laptop or desktop can, and to the degree that my laptop s unusable 00:53:09 alan turing would have loved to have a computer as powerful as SgeoPhone's phone. 00:56:16 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42306&oldid=42304 * Esowiki201529A * (+2) 00:56:18 Unfortunately, they were not coming out at the time. 00:56:24 A phone normally doesn't have a full keyboard or a programming environment though; a computer without a keyboard and programming environment isn't a particularly good computer. 00:57:42 I think there are programming environments. Just not one that allows creation of programs that are first class citizens on the device 00:57:51 As far as i know 00:58:36 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42307&oldid=42306 * Esowiki201529A * (+360) /* Description */ 00:58:42 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:58:56 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 00:59:15 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42308&oldid=42307 * Esowiki201529A * (-55) /* Description */ 00:59:31 IRC keeps disconnecting when i get A call 01:01:41 Funny that Esowiki201529A has not removed my link yet... 01:02:40 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42309&oldid=42308 * Esowiki201529A * (+87) 01:03:25 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42310&oldid=42309 * Esowiki201529A * (+17) 01:03:53 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:04:07 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 01:05:38 [wiki] [[SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42311&oldid=42303 * Oerjan * (+14) I think this word might, though. 01:06:34 who is Esowiki201529A? 01:07:15 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42312&oldid=42310 * Esowiki201529A * (+305) 01:07:27 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42313&oldid=42312 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) 01:07:34 some esolanger of dubious taste. 01:09:14 it really shouldn't be in the 2003 category, should it? 01:10:41 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42314&oldid=42313 * Oerjan * (-19) Category should be for this article's language only 01:13:57 Reading Andy D's proof from http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=710 that "consistent guessing" is weaker than the halting problem leaves me wondering whether there is any CG-Oracle that is computable given an oracle for the halting problem, and still weaker in that it cannot be used to solve the halting problem... 01:15:18 (As far as I've followed the construction, I think it would need a Halting oracle for Turing machines with a Halting oracle. Tricky beast, and a tricky proof.) 01:22:41 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42315&oldid=42314 * Esowiki201529A * (+64) 01:23:09 ... 01:24:29 [wiki] [[Small SNUSP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42316&oldid=42315 * 213.162.68.171 * (-19) Remove 2003 category again. 01:29:08 the dubiousity is steadily increasing. 01:30:01 i'm going to assume it was a race condition. 01:30:12 THIS TIME 01:33:06 On a related note, i don't think my dad knows how time works 01:33:22 nobody does 01:34:27 *relative note 01:35:03 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:18 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 01:36:59 (Of course I took "how time works" at its most fundamental meaning ... where does time come from, and what makes it, so to say, tick?) 01:37:27 There is no time...only, there is spacetime. 01:38:43 That's a nicely working theory. Will it work tomorrow? Will there *be* a tomorrow? Or anything besides this instant? 01:39:10 * int-e tries hard to remember what kind of #esoteric channel this place is... 01:40:26 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:40:55 time is an illusion. lunch-time doubly so. 01:40:59 *-- 01:41:15 oh yeah, the nearest place to eat... 01:42:16 oerjan: I think you should've used s/-//, it would be easier to decipher 01:43:20 Oh, it happens in the very beginning. 01:43:38 Maybe I should reread the whole trilogy another time... 01:44:20 oerjan: I wish I would've remembered the reply: "Very deep," said Arthur, "you should send that in to the Reader's Digest. They've got a page for people like you." 02:21:01 I like the Reader's Digest, if only because it helps me forget the moments I was stupidly waiting for my dentist with a discharged cellphone. 02:25:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CARBONATED CHICKEN). 02:28:35 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 02:31:23 -!- fractal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:42:54 -!- GeekDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:43:19 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:52:36 int-e: it's ok, i didn't remember the reply either. 02:53:23 oerjan: I meant, if I had remembered, I would have used it on you in some other occasion(s) :) 02:53:40 good, good 02:54:03 s/in/on/ 02:57:46 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 03:01:12 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:03:00 -!- Lymia has joined. 03:04:17 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:24:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 03:25:12 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:51:14 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 04:03:47 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 04:06:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:07:10 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 04:08:29 -!- variable has joined. 04:16:55 -!- f|`-`|f_ has joined. 04:18:28 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:18:36 -!- f|`-`|f_ has changed nick to f|`-`|f. 04:22:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:28:22 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 04:28:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:58:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:02:24 To make random number uniform with any given range (0 to N-1), what I have done is you take as many random bits as needed (for the higher or equal power of 2), if it is too big then try again. So if N=3 then you have bits 00,01,10,11 but if 11 you must try again. If you only need a 1/3 probability (and don't need to distinguish between the other two possibilities), then you can optimize this algorithm, and it looks like in Pokemon card that is wha 05:12:27 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:24:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:28:33 zzo38: a naive rejection sampling is not optimal, though; for 1/5 probability you would reject 101 through 111, but adding one bit and adjustement yields further 5/16 probability to finish; compare that with adding 3 bits which will only yield 15/64 probability to finish. 05:31:28 I was talking about the N=3 case and didn't think about the other cases, but I suppose you can optimize it in other ways too 05:32:28 for N=3 case that is optimal, of course. 05:32:40 (N=2^n+1 is the worst case OTOH) 05:49:38 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:58:18 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 06:17:18 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 06:18:16 -!- dianne has joined. 06:24:24 -!- roasted42 has joined. 06:25:43 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 06:25:43 -!- roasted42 has joined. 06:25:43 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 06:31:56 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 06:36:16 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has left. 07:16:56 Still the algorithm I specified is the way to generate random 0 to N-1 if N isn't known before this subroutine is called, and I have done in C code and in 6502 code. There might be better way, although I don't know. With a 6502 code you can count how many cycles it requires! 07:48:06 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:49:47 -!- roasted42 has joined. 07:49:59 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 07:49:59 -!- roasted42 has joined. 07:49:59 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 07:53:06 -!- fractal has joined. 07:54:14 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Client Quit). 08:06:20 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:14:44 -!- Lymia has joined. 08:30:18 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:45:35 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 09:18:21 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:27:00 Why are D10s such a lame shape 09:29:44 you can make a roller die, or a ten sided prism a lot like the d8, Taneb 09:30:33 fungot, what do you think of D10s? 09:30:33 Taneb: i just used google image search, even. let*-optionals would be a small icon in tray to sync the clipboards maybe. 09:36:32 i like those longer d10 09:37:52 http://www.gmdice.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/1/d10-crystal-oblivion-red.png 09:50:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:02:00 that's a roller die, myname 10:02:10 barrle, tumbler? 10:02:14 barrel* 10:04:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:07:57 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:28:10 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:50:33 -!- boily has joined. 11:21:17 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:23:03 -!- J_Arcane__ has joined. 11:24:14 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:24:27 -!- J_Arcane__ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:27:00 -!- J_Arcane_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:49:39 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 11:51:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:05:41 -!- fractal has quit (Changing host). 12:05:41 -!- fractal has joined. 13:13:22 zzo38: http://sprunge.us/WCAD looks like it could be suitable for simple processors. 13:17:44 fungot: fungellot. still trapped? 13:17:44 boily: and more half-finished scheme implementations. the question here is, how would i know 13:17:58 fungot: because of the implementations, duh. 13:17:58 boily: i think it could be another one 13:18:07 fungot: you've got another reason? 13:18:07 boily: what about smileys like this ( if e1 ( error e2) e3) 13:18:28 fungot: those aren't smileys, they're sexpes. 13:18:28 boily: i'll write a forum post about a store in helsinki which sells african decoration stuff etc for ridiculously low prices. 13:18:54 * boily takes a sloooow step back away from the sentient 'got... 13:22:49 uh, has google always perverted the lower case g like that? 13:23:15 int-hello. how come? 13:23:58 Apparently it has. 13:24:37 ever since 1999. 13:25:10 their g looks fine to me. 13:26:30 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:27:15 The lower loop is attached in a weird (wrong ;-) ) way. 13:27:51 the attachment is usually much further to the left. 13:28:28 But I have not noticed in 15 years, I wonder what triggered this observation now. 13:30:38 (actually I was hoping for an easter logo) 13:32:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:01:41 -!- nys has joined. 14:04:20 @tell oerjan Joyoeurjanses Pâques! 14:04:20 Consider it noted. 14:04:58 heh 14:05:20 b_joyeusnas pâques à toi aussi! 14:06:46 merci 14:09:51 how do you hungarianly wish Happy Easter? 14:16:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:18:39 boily: ask http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/easter.htm 14:19:03 omnious 14:20:03 boily: Goilyd Påske! 14:30:06 -!- ^v has joined. 14:36:12 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Network ban). 14:36:33 -!- ^v has joined. 14:48:25 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:55:32 @metar CYQB 14:55:33 CYQB 051400Z 28014KT 20SM FEW052 FEW080 SCT200 M05/M15 A2997 RMK CU1AC1CI2 SLP153 14:57:17 @metar ENVA 14:57:17 ENVA 051450Z 14005KT 9999 -SHSN BKN029 05/M05 Q1020 RMK WIND 670FT 18006KT 14:57:34 nevertheless, i saw snow a moment ago. 14:58:34 @metar ESSB 14:58:35 ESSB 051450Z 36010KT 330V040 9999 SHRA GS FEW022CB SCT040 05/01 Q1020 R30/19//60 14:58:43 It was snowing a few hours ago 14:58:56 @metar LOWI 14:58:56 LOWI 051450Z 27007KT 9999 -SHSN FEW010 BKN050 03/M00 Q1019 TEMPO SHSN 14:58:58 oops, "a few" is 10 apparently 14:59:45 @metar EGLL 14:59:45 EGLL 051450Z VRB04KT 9999 BKN038 12/04 Q1027 14:59:59 I feel strange, being at the warmest place when people are @metaring. 15:00:15 Why are D10s such a lame shape <-- just use a D20 with duplicate numbers hth 15:00:42 it's the platonic solution 15:03:31 "Or cut a D20 in half. Wait..." 15:03:33 @metar ayyy 15:03:33 @metar KSFO 15:03:33 KSFO 051456Z 14004KT 10SM FEW020 BKN030 BKN055 12/07 A2991 RMK AO2 RAB35E44 SLP129 P0000 60000 T01170067 55004 15:03:33 No result. 15:03:40 ? 15:03:52 f|`hello`|f! 15:04:11 f|`-`|f: why the questionment? 15:04:40 To violate your sense of world, and make you truly wonder 15:04:51 Why the hell don't they have a specific question 15:05:52 fungot: f|`-`|f makes less sense than you. how is it possible? 15:06:12 Your fungot quota is up! 15:06:12 fizzie: so, is the element before the current one. fnord 15:06:57 uppium 15:07:07 fnorduppium! 15:18:40 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:22:51 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:23:24 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:38:31 -!- simpleirc has joined. 15:39:09 hello 15:39:44 -!- simpleirc has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:05:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:13:20 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:36:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:59:52 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 17:09:12 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:32:07 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 17:32:07 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:40:14 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:51:15 -!- fractal has joined. 17:53:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FAMILIAR CHICKEN). 17:56:42 -!- augur has joined. 18:09:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:15:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:21:30 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:26:58 -!- zadock has joined. 18:28:12 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 18:28:18 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:28:43 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:41:50 hello, I have awoken from my eternal, alcohol-induced slumber 18:42:53 helloren 18:42:58 fungot, green oren 18:42:58 b_jonas: it's just fnord of the object you pass in variable column names??? i have 18:45:37 -!- lleu has joined. 18:45:37 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 18:45:37 -!- lleu has joined. 19:08:51 -!- roasted42 has joined. 19:11:40 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 19:11:40 -!- roasted42 has joined. 19:11:40 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 19:21:28 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:22:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:26:33 hi, fungot 19:26:34 FireFly: set! was perfectly fine for scheme-hacking weather 19:26:53 fungot: I wish you would set! the weather to be a bit warmer tomorrow 19:26:53 FireFly: my brain is scrambled too, just so it can 19:29:29 -!- TieSleep has changed nick to TieSoul. 19:46:23 Why doesn't the C standard library provide a "print quoted string" function!?!?! 19:48:28 Well, I guess I'll have to write fputqs myself 20:14:18 -!- izabera has changed nick to iza1. 20:14:21 -!- iza1 has changed nick to izabera. 20:31:16 So are there any unsolved yes-or-no questions in mathematics where about half of people think they're true and about half think they're false? 20:31:57 Seems like everyone thinks the Riemann hypothesis, the Goldbach conjecture, and the Collatz conjecture are all true (and there's some pretty nice evidence for all of these), and that P != NP. 20:32:34 tswett: I don't think the Collatz conjecture is held so generally 20:32:57 tswett: but there are much better examples where half of the people think it's true 20:33:06 there's, for example, the Hedetniemi conjecture about graph products 20:33:57 -!- Ronarsky has joined. 20:34:32 that's a nice one, thanks 20:34:43 let me try to find more 20:34:48 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 20:34:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:37:23 -!- boily has joined. 20:37:46 I'm not sure it's really "half", but I think at least one famous mathematicians has declared they conjecture it and at least one has declared they conjecture the opposite 20:38:03 obviously not everyone will have an opinion 20:38:51 tswett: My first thought was "the question of whether math talent is inborn" but that's really a biological question about mathematics. 20:39:18 or rather about the biology of mathematcians 20:39:32 -!- Ronarsky has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:39:33 oren: besides not being a mathematical question, that's not even a yes-no question 20:40:30 Now, here's a question. 20:41:01 Is there a "simple and easy to calculate" function N -> N whose image contains infinitely many numbers, all of which are prime? 20:41:21 b_jonas: did you arrive at that conclusion formally or intuitively? (scnr) 20:42:56 > nubBy (\a b -> 1 < gcd a b) [2..] 20:42:58 [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101,... 20:43:37 (what does "simple and easy to calculate" mean?) 20:44:03 repeat 2 20:44:14 infinitely many numbers, all of which are prime 20:44:16 tswett: there's a moderately well known N^lots -> N function whose image contains all prime numbers, and no other positive numbres 20:44:19 > nubBy (((1<).).gcd) [2..] 20:44:20 [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101,... 20:44:31 myname: but the image is finite 20:44:50 The set {2} certainly isn't "infinitely many". 20:44:51 oh 20:44:52 crap 20:45:19 int-e: well, let's say "easier to calculate than just finding the smallest prime number larger than n". 20:45:30 ais523: My memory may be failing me, but isn't it -> Z, and we know nothing about the negative numbers? 20:45:36 boily: re your lambdabot message: the NetHack devteam finally realised they probably weren't going to get another release out by themselves, and hired some variant developers to help out 20:45:40 int-e: err, yes, -> Z 20:45:41 sorry 20:45:48 > 2 : [3,5..] 20:45:49 [2,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43,45,47,49,51,53... 20:45:56 it isn't what you were asking for, but it's similar enough that I mentioned it anyway 20:46:04 this is approximatively good enough for primes, and is easy to compute. 20:46:12 ais523: oh! thanks for the heads up. 20:48:17 I guess you could turn it into a function N -> N by using an isomorphism between N and N^lots. 20:48:29 ais523: so what's the function? 20:48:45 tswett: I don't know it offhand, it's some huge polynomial that was compiled from Lisp 20:48:51 but being a polynomial, it's easy to calculate ;-) 20:50:06 how can a polynomial have an image containing only integers? 20:50:17 By having only integers in its domain. 20:50:28 ah 20:50:30 b_jonas: we could have a poll for the second conjecture from http://int-e.eu/~bf3/squares/ (we're tiling rectangles with a minimal number of squares of integer size. if we scale the rectange (multiplying both sides by a positive integer), can the number of required squares become smaller?) 20:51:25 int-e: ooh, that's an interesting question 20:52:21 int-e: interesting, have asked that on Mathoverflow? 20:53:36 No. 20:54:26 int-e: also, Erich Friedman might be the right person to ask that 20:54:49 obviously either of these only after you've tried to search existing literature 20:56:12 Equivalently: The fewest squares solution to an NxM rectangle must, if N and M are both divisible by K, consist of squares whose side lengths are divisible by K 20:56:41 oren: what if there's more than one solution with the fewest squares? 20:56:47 Oh shit! 20:57:34 "at least one fewest squares solution" if we're trying to be equivalent to the old wording 20:57:49 "all fewest squares solutions" seems like a more interesting wording, though 20:58:13 b_jonas: I probably won't, not any time soon anyway. 20:58:24 int-e: ok, just saying 21:00:09 int-e: http://mathoverflow.net/q/44524/5340 may be relevant 21:01:57 int-e: and it links to http://mathoverflow.net/q/116382/5340 21:02:20 which in turn links back to you 21:02:37 and asks precisely about that conjecture you're asking 21:02:37 heh 21:07:18 so it's already asked 21:07:20 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: later - tomorrow sometime while I upgrade valgrind & other things). 21:09:43 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 21:11:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:11:17 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 21:17:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:18:46 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:22:58 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 21:34:56 (what does "simple and easy to calculate" mean?) <-- what about an algorithm which finds a >= n digit prime in time O(n^k) ? 21:37:03 that may not be simple enough, but it should e.g. crush all current prime records easily. 21:39:20 oerjan: no, it doesn't 21:39:38 it doesn't? 21:39:46 oerjan: the point is, it's a well-known conjecture whether there's a _deterministic_ algorithm for that, but there's a very easy randomized algorithm 21:40:03 the randomized algorithm is to just pick a random n digit number and prime test it 21:40:14 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:40:21 oh hm 21:40:23 the prime test is fast (polynomial time) and there's O(1/n) chance that the number is a prime 21:40:48 b_jonas: well, can't you replace the random generation, with any pseudorandom generation that isn't above-average at hitting composite numbers? 21:41:05 but the prime records are so big that even prime testing is slow for them, and they actually use special form numbers with faster prime tests, specifically Mersenne numbers (numbers of the form 2**n-1 where n is an integer) 21:41:28 ais523: that's why it's a conjecture (and because people generally think randomness doesn't help anything) 21:41:49 but I think it's still open, and an important open problem 21:42:20 yes, it's also a conjecture that randomness doesn't help, although that may be at P vs. NP level of difficulty 21:42:30 ais523: http://polymathprojects.org/2009/07/27/proposal-deterministic-way-to-find-primes/ 21:42:44 that might have some useful descriptions and links 21:50:38 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 21:53:16 it feels slightly wrong to link a fanfiction when i don't even read the real thing but http://www.mezzacotta.net/dinosaur/?comic=70 21:53:36 wait, this applies to 99% of DMM's stuff 21:59:55 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:10:06 /topic Cheesecake! | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ 22:12:07 int-e: escaped intentionally? 22:12:26 yes, we have +t set at the moment. 22:13:00 hmm, did the trollbot come back? 22:14:33 (it's actually quite hard to escape things accidentally in irssi; the way to do that is to start a line with a slash, then a space: / /topic ...) 22:15:37 ah, Konversation escapes with just // 22:16:07 -!- erdic has joined. 22:16:23 +,p 22:16:31 int-e: the easiest way I accidentally escape is by trying to press / but the layout is set to Hungarian so it types - instead 22:20:02 "Verify this email address ([email protected]) and attach it to your account?" 22:20:15 I think I'm beginning to HATE cloudfront. 22:21:51 (as a "security feature", they replace strings that look like email addresses by javascript snippets) 22:25:48 looool 22:26:09 it is a valid email in the source? 22:26:19 presumably. 22:32:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:32:56 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 22:36:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:36:39 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:44:29 hmm, did the trollbot come back? <-- yes it did 22:54:30 * boily is sad the chännel's been +ted... 22:54:49 it is, indeed, untraditional. 22:55:13 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 22:55:26 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -t. 22:55:30 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 22:55:31 +ẗ 22:55:40 yay i got the syntax right 22:56:01 oerjan: advanced irc users do it in one command hth 22:56:17 WAT 22:56:20 e.g. /mode #esoteric -to oerjan 22:56:39 you change the mode of #esoteric to oerjan??? 22:56:41 huh 22:56:54 * boily TILed that oerjan is an IRC channel flag. 22:57:49 use it wisely. 22:57:59 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:58:34 /mode +ø 23:07:28 -!- int-e has set topic: Educated Cheesecake! | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 23:07:36 oerjan: is that wise enough for you? 23:08:11 i find that question a bit academic 23:08:55 does the cheesecake have a generous coulis de framboises on it? 23:09:39 @google coulis de framboises 23:09:41 http://www.marmiton.org/recettes/recette_coulis-de-framboises_11316.aspx 23:09:41 Title: Coulis de framboises : Recette de Coulis de framboises - Marmiton 23:10:31 yum 23:13:40 what's your favorite number? mine is 7 23:14:34 5. 23:14:54 16. 23:25:45 I suspect that if I start weighing all natural numbers against one another, I'll never finish. Fiendish. 23:27:06 int-e: you're thinking of conatural numbers hth 23:27:55 Not really. 23:28:51 err. 23:31:50 * oren doesn't know what a conatural number is, and bing is not helpful 23:32:29 natural numbers with the arrows reversed 23:33:49 I guess it's a co-free datatype, a final co-F-algebra with F(A) = 1+A. 23:34:25 (Whereas the natural numbers are a free datatype, an initial F-algebra, with the same F.) 23:35:05 The difference is that omega is a conatural number, the conatural number that is its own successor. 23:35:18 Is that cofree? 23:35:26 yes. 23:35:32 How? 23:35:54 just regard it as a stream over (). 23:36:21 What is it cofree on? 23:37:16 So it's the naturals, plus Ω where succ(Ω)=Ω . got it 23:37:28 ... I should've written "F-coalgebra". 23:37:42 It's the cofree F-coalgebra, with F as above. 23:39:42 A cofree F-coalgebra works out to the same thing as the cofree comonad on F, right? 23:40:14 So I guess in that sense you can say that CofreeComonad F () is the greatest fixed point of F. 23:40:30 But that seems pretty different from saying that the greatest fixed point itself is cofree. 23:42:06 I know some of these words. 23:42:10 Wat.are you people speaking English? 23:44:12 it seems so; or something vaguely similar. 23:44:45 shachaf: Ok, let me go one step back. I want a final F-coalgebra, whereas the datatype is an initial F-algebra. 23:45:12 Which data type? 23:45:23 naturals, in this case. 23:45:53 So F is Maybe here? 23:46:01 Yes. 23:46:15 OK. 23:48:12 oren: I fear they are afflicted with acute fungotitis. I can't make sense at all about what they're communicating. 23:48:12 boily: since it counts block allocation amounts in the filesystem 23:48:48 Anyway if it is cofree I'd like to know how. 23:49:01 Especially if there's some relationship to monoids. 23:49:22 boily: it's not very complicated but there are a lot of words 23:50:21 I know I read some blog posts about F-algebras and stuff like that, that on the spur of the moment it seemed all clear, but by the next day it had all but evaporated from my mind. 23:59:47 I guess the question I was asking before was along the lines of: Lists are free monoids. Are colists any sort of universal monoid construction? 2015-04-06: 00:00:28 I'm surprised that lists aren't self-dual 00:00:41 although, the list comonad is for /nonempty/ lists specifically 00:01:25 (that actually came up at work, someone was presenting some heavily comonad-based research, and some of the people there didn't know what the list comonad was) 00:01:37 I don't think "colist" is dual in the usual sense. 00:01:55 It's the greatest fixed point vs. the list fixed point of some functor. 00:04:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:04:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:04:29 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:05:43 shachaf: Ok, I think I've got it. The final F-coalgebra is cofree over an empty set of cogenerators, so applying the term is awkward, because usually the cogenerator object is not fixed like that. 00:06:58 I'm not sure what you mean. 00:07:09 shachaf: In contrast to the cofree comonad, there is also less structure: The cofree comonad has an F-coalgebra, and furthermore the comonad signature, with extract mapping to the cogenerators. 00:09:23 What are cogenerators? Why is it an empty rather than a singleton set of them? I think I'm missing something. 00:09:57 In Cofree f a, a are cogenerators. 00:10:12 "Cofree" is the cofree comonad? 00:10:19 Oh it must be a singleton. 00:10:21 shachaf: yes, 00:11:03 OK, I guess there are at least two different ways of getting the cofree comonad, as a cofree f-coalgebra and as a cofree comonoid in the category of endofunctors. 00:11:03 Too much dualizing. I'd rather discuss free/initial things... 00:11:30 OK, free/initial things are fine. 00:11:43 In which case it's the empty set. 00:11:47 shachaf: the final f-coalgebra does not have the comonad structure. that's what I was trying to get art. 00:11:50 *at 00:12:20 Right, I thought that's what I was getting at too. 00:12:29 In what sense is it cofree? 00:13:11 OK, I think I see what you mean. 00:14:14 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:14:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:14:24 In that if you fix the cogenerators to be a final object (different category, and awkward, as said above), you get the additional arrows to the cogenerator objects that the cofree definition has for ... uhm ... free. 00:14:32 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:14:45 s/objects/object/ 00:15:47 So, to summarize, I should just say 'final' or 'terminal' or whichever, not 'cofree', to avoid confusion. 00:16:09 I dunno, pretty much every term in maths means like ten different things by now 00:16:26 terminology like "terminal" isn't so useful without knowing what category you're talking about 00:16:52 (in the sort of categories I work with, the final object is normally the unit data type, e.g. () in Haskell or Ocaml) 00:17:36 i,i in the category of this airport, this object is initial terminal 00:17:38 the 00:18:32 hmm, if the same object is both initial and terminal 00:18:46 what restrictions does that put on the category 00:19:09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_object 00:19:47 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:19:51 Hmm, I thought that article said more about it. 00:21:28 int-e: https://www.fpcomplete.com/user/dolio/many-roads-to-free-monads 00:21:42 "One final aside is that there is a well known theorem that "left adjoints preserve colimits" (and right adjoints, limits). Free F is a left adjoint, so it will take an initial object 0 to the initial F-algebra." 00:21:52 I remember talking to dolio about this. 00:22:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:22:39 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:25:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:25:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:39:08 -!- Decim has joined. 00:39:58 The fires of hell will eclipse your soul and drag you into the void of despair as you watch all happiness that you cling to fade away 00:40:07 Idk what I'm talking about 00:40:28 I don't know who you're talking to 00:40:32 but that's not a very nice introduction, really 00:40:38 `welcome Decim 00:40:49 HackEgo: you're being slow today 00:40:52 `welcome Decim 00:40:55 Actually 00:41:00 Decim: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:41:00 Decim: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:41:03 there we go 00:41:23 Don't welcome me because I've litterally been welcomed on every single one of my clients for 5 months 00:41:38 well, if we don't know who you are 00:41:42 you're going to be welcomed a lot 00:41:50 but I did it in black and white this time, for a change 00:41:59 Oh people know who I am 00:42:13 shachaf: ah. 00:42:39 Everything is black and white because of the default filter on Andchat 00:43:23 ais523: it was obvious to me who it was after the first two lines hth 00:43:42 oerjan: well you're paying more attention than I am 00:43:45 although, it clearly isn't me or you 00:43:49 so that's a start 00:44:49 oerjan stop spotting me out, I'm not trying to hide behind nicks I don't even have a vpn 00:45:15 normally you can tell who the regulars here are by the writing style 00:45:18 I just like these cooool names whilst I'm programming stuff 00:45:30 ais523: I believe that's what oerjan did 00:45:41 e.g. do lines start with a capital letter, do they end with a full stop, do nickpings use a comma or colon, do they use "hth" a lot 00:45:46 i just usemyreal name 00:45:56 oren? 00:45:56 FireFly: also the nick, really. 00:46:09 My real name is reallllly long 00:46:12 Yeah, my real name is oren 00:46:18 oh, I didn't realise Oren was a name 00:46:23 Now I know 00:46:30 it is normally spelled orin 00:46:38 mine is weird 00:47:07 I would use my real name, but someone registered it 12 years ago 00:47:18 (okay, I wouldn't use it either way) 00:47:20 So I don't use it as a nick as most irc clients can't parse 29 letter names 00:47:44 -!- oren has changed nick to OrenWatson. 00:47:52 sigh 00:47:53 -!- shachaf has left. 00:48:00 there, my full name apparently fits 00:48:47 Hallo shachaf 00:48:47 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:49:02 i think shachaf got fed up again 00:49:16 How do you your name oerjan 00:49:29 I can't Ø 00:49:42 Pronounce* 00:50:01 straight forward hth 00:51:10 I thought ø was an "aw" sound (like in "forward", which is why oerjan used that word)? 00:51:22 wat 00:51:32 it's a fronted rounded vowel 00:52:07 hmm 00:52:11 maybe I'm thinking of a different letter 00:52:29 Is it Or-Jan 00:52:39 the j is a y 00:52:46 i'm just joking about it being the obvious pronunciation of each letter in norwegian 00:52:57 So I was pronouncing it correctly 00:53:34 the j is essentially an english y yes 00:53:44 * int-e wonders how different Ø is from Ö. 00:53:55 I mentally pronounce your name as though it were English 00:54:08 although we don't get a lot of "oer" in English, "ur" is close enough for mental pronunciation 00:54:21 because the purpose of a mental pronunciation is mostly to be able to type things correctly 00:54:23 How do you pronounce œ then? 00:54:25 int-e: more tense i think 00:54:27 (I type by sound for some reason) 00:54:33 assuming you mean the german 00:54:40 I do. 00:54:52 and more pouted lips 00:55:05 oerjan: and you mean the Ö? 00:55:10 yes 00:55:20 i mean 00:55:28 the norwegian is more tense and pouted 00:55:40 Pronouncing oerjans name in Enochian is quite trouble some 00:55:45 iirc 00:56:04 the n is also pretty close to normal for english 00:56:30 the a is short but otherwise close to a in father 00:56:56 the r is a tap, so you're all hopeless on that >:) 00:59:41 Med ("grapha" sounded in the throat) don ged un drux is your name in enochian oerjan 00:59:50 ais523: "ur" is probably the closest you get in english 01:00:10 I'm learning this language just to have fun 01:00:42 OCH AY 01:00:49 Omai 01:01:26 Ohayo 01:02:09 Ooooooooooooom... 01:02:15 Have you been making anything in esolangs lately oerjan or nah 01:04:54 not in a while no 01:21:30 -!- Decim has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:04 I am writing some more horrifying C code! the function sc7cpy allows to copy a linked list of integers by sc7cpy("dR",ll); 01:23:49 you can copy a tree of integers by sc7cpy("dRR",tree); 01:24:24 what would be the smallest change to NetHack needed to make it TC 01:24:28 ideally actually TC, not just bounded-storage 01:24:56 hmm, how detailed is the enemy behaviour? 01:25:24 the enemy behaviour is mostly incomprehensible, because its bugs obscure its intended features 01:25:31 although I've fixed it a bunch in my own variant 01:26:08 maybe you can find a buffer overflow that leads to arbitrary code execution... just a thought. 01:26:57 i say that doesn't count 01:27:06 it needs to be in portable nethack 01:27:25 oh, philosophy... 01:27:27 int-e: yes, there are a ton of those, but I was thinking in the game mechanics 01:27:47 ais523: add a turing monster hth 01:28:02 oerjan: it's the best I could do with my very limited knowledge of nethack 01:28:13 int-e: me too! 01:28:19 I'd love it if people could automate the dungeon Dwarf Fortress-style 01:28:51 I guess you'd have to involve items somewhere, because they're the only thing in the game that you can have unlimited amounts of under game mechanics (ofc the game itself runs into trouble tracking them eventually, but I just consider that to be an imperfect interp_ 01:28:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:33:20 an imperfect interp_? 01:33:43 an imp_ 01:33:54 * int-e is unsure whether that got cut off. 01:34:07 * int-e realizes that _ is next to ) 01:34:20 * boily summons an imp_ “RISE, MIGHTY FUNGOT!” 01:34:35 the imp tells you to shout less 01:35:01 fungot fhtagn 01:35:02 int-e: there's a parser that works in practice but never had the pro stuff. but who would want to do is allow fnord image transmission. the gba has a linux 01:35:42 oerjan: okay >_>'... 01:35:54 s/_/)/ 01:36:41 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 01:36:43 s)\))_) 01:36:49 `relcome Guest24483 01:36:54 ​Guest24483: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:37:00 `relcome Guest3780 01:37:01 ​Guest3780: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:37:42 boily: you know in perl () actually match in s expressions 01:38:33 no, I didn't know. I expected whatever char appeared after an s to be the one and only delimiter. 01:38:44 is that a perl idiosyncasy, or is it widespread? 01:38:54 that's true except for brackety things 01:39:05 i dunno if it has spread 01:39:12 oh right ... s(...)(...) 01:39:18 oh well. I guess perl's well spread enough by itself. 01:39:20 I think Perl and sed both even allow alphabetic characters as delimeters 01:39:23 *delimiters 01:39:24 I thought it's a perl thing 01:39:28 but this is normally considered a bad idea 01:39:51 parser combinators ftw! 01:39:51 sed want s(foo(bar( 01:39:56 `` perl -e '$_="test"; satamag; print' 01:39:59 test 01:40:04 hmm 01:40:06 maybe Perl doesn't 01:40:13 `` echo "foobar" | perl -e's' 01:40:14 Substitution pattern not terminated at -e line 1. 01:40:45 ` echo "foobar" | perl -pe 's(o)(oo)g' 01:40:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:40:47 `` perl -e '$_="test"; s\t\m\g; print' 01:40:48 `` echo "foobar" | perl -pe 's(o)(oo)g' 01:40:55 foooobar 01:40:56 mesm 01:42:02 perl -e'$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:14 `` perl -e'$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:15 Unrecognized character \x81; marked by <-- HERE after sかtかm<-- HERE near column 21 at -e line 1. 01:42:18 `? nooodl 01:42:22 ` perl -e'$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:42:24 noooodl is the correct spelling 01:42:36 `perl -e'$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:38 No output. 01:42:39 @ask nooodl where are you? 01:42:39 Consider it noted. 01:42:43 `perl -e '$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:42:46 No output. 01:43:13 fungot: please explain the nooodl incident 01:43:13 int-e: with my version, the systems aren't r6rs requires unicode, why do you need for binary distribution is a coin flipped ( because i wrote it. 01:43:18 `perl $_="test";sかtかmか;print; 01:43:19 Can't open perl script "$_="test";sかtかmか;print;": No such file or directory 01:43:31 `perl -e '$_="test";sかtかmか;print;' 01:43:32 No output. 01:43:48 `perl -e '$_="test\n";sかtかmか;print;' 01:43:48 No output. 01:44:08 oerjan: fwiw, "() actually match in s expressions" really confused me at first; I mean, what does that have to do with Perl? 01:44:42 `` perl -e '$_="か"; s/K/z/; print;' 01:44:43 ​か 01:44:56 meh. it unicodly works. 01:45:15 try unidecode next time. 01:45:40 `` perl -e '$_="test"; s atamag; print' 01:45:41 mesm 01:45:50 * oerjan cackles evilly 01:46:06 ais523: ^ 01:46:22 `` perl -e $_="test";s かtかmか;print' 01:46:22 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:46:28 `` perl -e '$_="test";s かtかmか;print' 01:46:28 Unrecognized character \x81; marked by <-- HERE after かtかm<-- HERE near column 22 at -e line 1. 01:47:38 Perl is old, it operates on bytes. And then there is some utf8 support in string operations. 01:48:07 int-e: Perl operates on codepoints; however, it doesn't necessarily assume that they're Unicode codepoints 01:48:21 a string in Perl is basically a string of 31-bit integers, stored in a compressed representation 01:48:28 int-e: i was pondering for half a minute how to say that better and then gave up 01:48:43 actually Perl is one of the few languages which really supports Unicode well 01:48:57 however, it doesn't necessarily know how to interpret its input 01:49:04 and normally interprets it as bytes for backwards compatibility 01:49:13 perl -e 'print "\x{123}"' 01:49:18 `perl -e 'print "\x{123}"' 01:49:23 `` perl -e 'print "\x{123}"' 01:49:25 No output. 01:49:25 Wide character in print at -e line 1. \ ģ 01:49:41 ``` 01:49:43 Perl's quite happy to have a codepoint 0x123 in a string 01:49:54 Send laptop in to get fixed, or buy new laptop? 01:49:55 No output. 01:49:57 but it doesn't know how to output it because by default, stdout is bytes 01:49:58 Screen is dead 01:50:15 `` perl -e 'binmode STDOUT, ":encoding(UTF-8)"; print "\x{123}"' 01:50:20 ​ģ 01:50:21 Sgeo: any warranty? 01:50:27 `8ball 01:50:29 if you specify an encoding explicitly, everything is fine 01:50:30 int-e: I almost certainly voided it 01:50:32 Ask again later. 01:51:01 Unless taking the latop completely apart does not void the warranty 01:51:14 Sgeo: eiter fix it yourself, use it as youtube for TV, andor buy new 01:51:27 Sgeo: you probably voided it. 01:51:47 Would the manufacturer still repair voided waranty if I pay money? 01:52:43 yea, if you pay 01:53:24 but I would just use it as desktop with external screen for now, and buy new laptop later 01:54:03 There's no room near my couch for a monitor 01:54:11 So I'm standing in a different area 01:54:14 It's inconvenient 01:54:22 Plus the resolution of this monitor is crap 01:55:39 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:05:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STROPPED CHICKEN). 02:25:58 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 02:29:09 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:50:21 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:53:06 i would prefer whatevertheirnameis to leave me alone twhal 02:58:56 -!- variable has joined. 03:00:33 I could buy a better desk, and if that works out, consider building a desktop 03:05:32 next time that would be a laptop 03:05:56 ? 03:06:52 ah, misread the logs 03:06:54 nvm 03:10:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:13:48 i guess building a better lap is out of the question. 03:21:59 oerjan: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=lap+pillow not so. 03:22:55 O KAY 03:23:34 Is there a better way to test .XI files than with OpenMPT? 03:25:22 -!- OrenWatson has changed nick to orin. 03:31:08 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:32:29 -!- adu has joined. 03:32:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:33:11 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 03:38:38 -!- nys has quit (Quit: sleep). 03:41:15 -!- ^v^v has joined. 03:43:08 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:52:01 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:15:56 -!- supay_away has changed nick to supay. 04:21:41 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:36:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZZZETA). 04:42:07 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:44:01 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:48:07 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 05:27:30 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:37:12 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 05:41:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:41:44 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 05:47:54 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:48:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:56:53 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 05:56:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:58:04 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:14:02 http://competent.management/ 06:26:08 Should have been a redirect to iana.org 06:38:31 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 06:42:22 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:48:18 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:09:27 Hmm. the computation of h(14,13) is taking unusually long 07:11:56 I think there is a bug, but i'm not sure where 07:15:02 no. wait all the answers are wrong. 07:19:05 screw this at least my memory mgmt code workd 07:22:55 http://www.paste.org/77910 07:29:53 C programs are littered with code deleting and copying various trees and linked lists. this code handles a general case of that 07:37:16 -!- zadock has joined. 07:47:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:00:01 -!- roasted42 has joined. 08:01:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:04:04 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 08:04:04 -!- roasted42 has joined. 08:04:04 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 08:05:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:31:44 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:32:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:32:25 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:39:55 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: bbl). 08:45:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:46:20 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:48:47 moin 08:56:57 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:06:49 おはよう 09:07:16 おやすみ 09:54:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:31:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:31:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:21:46 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:27:52 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 12:28:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:28:43 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 12:36:12 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:42:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:43:27 oho, less than a day... 12:43:43 int-e, until? 12:43:44 (GG updated) 12:43:47 :O 12:44:11 Oh yeah, this conversation 12:45:05 Of course they cheated and started from an existing train... 12:47:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:12:17 -!- tromp has joined. 13:21:31 -!- boily has joined. 13:22:16 -!- FreeFull has quit. 13:51:22 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:24 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:25 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:28 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:29 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:29 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:31 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:31 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:32 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:33 -!- qlkzy has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:33 -!- paul2520 has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:33 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:36 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:36 -!- hassa-aravit has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:36 -!- kline has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:40 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:40 -!- barrucadu has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:41 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:44 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:45 -!- villasukka has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:45 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:48 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:48 -!- J_Arcane has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:51 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:52 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:52 -!- q3k has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:52 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:53 -!- hjulle has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:53 -!- zadock has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:54 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:54 -!- nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:54 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:54 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:56 -!- iamevn_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:57 -!- gde33 has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:58 -!- g2watson has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:59 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 13:51:59 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:00 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:00 -!- vifino has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:00 -!- pdxleif has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:01 -!- relrod has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:01 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:02 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:02 -!- zemhill_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:05 -!- TieSleep has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:06 -!- j-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:11 -!- orin has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:11 -!- ocharles_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:12 -!- mhi^ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:12 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:12 -!- idris-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:12 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:13 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:15 -!- supay has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:15 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:16 -!- Guest3780 has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:16 -!- vodkode has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:17 -!- Guest24483 has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:18 -!- mitchs has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:19 -!- izabera has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:19 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:20 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:21 -!- staffehn_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:22 -!- digitalcold has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:23 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:25 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:25 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:26 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:26 -!- shikhin has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:27 -!- CADD has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:36 -!- Naprecks has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:36 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:36 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:36 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:37 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:39 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:39 -!- fractal has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:39 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:39 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:39 -!- v4s has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:40 -!- perrier_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:40 -!- merdach has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:42 -!- monotone has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:42 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:42 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:43 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:43 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:44 -!- boily has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:44 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:44 -!- mbrcknl has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:44 -!- skarn has quit (*.net *.split). 13:52:45 -!- edwardk has quit (*.net *.split). 13:57:06 -!- newsham has joined. 13:57:06 -!- rodgort has joined. 13:57:06 -!- yiyus has joined. 13:57:06 -!- q3k has joined. 13:57:06 -!- coppro has joined. 13:57:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:57:06 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:57:06 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 13:57:06 -!- erdic has joined. 13:57:06 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:57:06 -!- villasukka has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:57:06 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 13:57:06 -!- barrucadu has joined. 13:57:06 -!- TodPunk has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Guest11531 has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Deewiant has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Jafet has joined. 13:57:06 -!- conehead has joined. 13:57:06 -!- tswett has joined. 13:57:06 -!- skarn has joined. 13:57:06 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 13:57:06 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 13:57:06 -!- diginet has joined. 13:57:06 -!- nortti has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Zuu has joined. 13:57:06 -!- digitalcold has joined. 13:57:06 -!- myname has joined. 13:57:06 -!- aloril has joined. 13:57:06 -!- supay has joined. 13:57:06 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 13:57:06 -!- monotone has joined. 13:57:06 -!- edwardk has joined. 13:57:06 -!- staffehn_ has joined. 13:57:06 -!- jix has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Naprecks has joined. 13:57:06 -!- quintopia has joined. 13:57:06 -!- zemhill_ has joined. 13:57:06 -!- mroman has joined. 13:57:06 -!- vifino has joined. 13:57:06 -!- relrod has joined. 13:57:06 -!- fizzie has joined. 13:57:06 -!- j-bot has joined. 13:57:06 -!- izabera has joined. 13:57:06 -!- trn has joined. 13:57:06 -!- pdxleif has joined. 13:57:06 -!- b_jonas has joined. 13:57:06 -!- EgoBot has joined. 13:57:06 -!- olsner has joined. 13:57:06 -!- int-e has joined. 13:57:06 -!- nisstyre has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Melvar has joined. 13:57:06 -!- mitchs has joined. 13:57:06 -!- gde33 has joined. 13:57:06 -!- fungot has joined. 13:57:06 -!- clog has joined. 13:57:06 -!- g2watson has joined. 13:57:06 -!- idris-bot has joined. 13:57:06 -!- merdach has joined. 13:57:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:57:06 -!- perrier_ has joined. 13:57:06 -!- mhi^ has joined. 13:57:06 -!- iamevn_ has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Guest24483 has joined. 13:57:06 -!- zzo38 has joined. 13:57:06 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 13:57:06 -!- lambdabot has joined. 13:57:06 -!- orin has joined. 13:57:06 -!- CADD has joined. 13:57:06 -!- v4s has joined. 13:57:06 -!- yorick has joined. 13:57:06 -!- TieSleep has joined. 13:57:06 -!- vodkode has joined. 13:57:06 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Lymia has joined. 13:57:06 -!- fractal has joined. 13:57:06 -!- augur has joined. 13:57:06 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:57:06 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 13:57:06 -!- shachaf has joined. 13:57:06 -!- zadock has joined. 13:57:06 -!- hjulle has joined. 13:57:06 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:57:06 -!- boily has joined. 13:57:41 -!- tromp has joined. 13:57:41 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 13:57:41 -!- Vorpal has joined. 13:57:41 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 13:57:41 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 13:57:41 -!- heroux has joined. 13:57:41 -!- ineiros has joined. 13:57:41 -!- qlkzy has joined. 13:57:41 -!- paul2520 has joined. 13:57:41 -!- mtve has joined. 13:57:41 -!- myndzi has joined. 13:57:41 -!- hassa-aravit has joined. 13:57:41 -!- kline has joined. 13:58:20 -!- TieSleep has changed nick to TieSoul. 13:58:27 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 13:58:27 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:11 -!- rodgort has joined. 13:59:11 -!- newsham has joined. 13:59:15 -!- rodgort has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:00:04 -!- rodgort has joined. 14:00:36 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:02:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:02:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:03:07 heyo 14:04:21 -!- Guest11531 has quit (Changing host). 14:04:21 -!- Guest11531 has joined. 14:04:42 -!- Guest11531 has changed nick to GeekDude. 14:07:32 Guest3780: hi! how are you enjoying these fine netsplits? 14:12:03 good bmoilnday 14:15:29 -!- magician has joined. 14:15:39 * oerjan wonders if there is any language with words that start with bm 14:15:52 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest6889. 14:18:59 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:18:59 -!- Guest6889 has changed nick to Guest3780. 14:22:05 boerjan lundi! 14:22:10 trusty georgian seems to provide ქიმიური ბმა, meaning chemical bond, the latter word transcribing as "bma" 14:22:11 georgian perhaps? 14:22:23 oh. georgian indeed. 14:22:47 your go-to language for advanced consonant clustering 14:23:06 dvncd 14:23:19 `wlcm me 14:23:20 m: Wlcm t th ntrntnl hb fr strc prgrmmng lngg dsgn nd dplymnt! Fr mr nfrmtn, chck t r wk: . (Fr th thr knd f strc, try #strc n rc.dl.nt.) 14:24:01 `eoe me 14:24:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eoe: not found 14:24:06 goody. 14:24:17 * oerjan tries russian but google doesn't give anything non-acronymy looking starting with бм 14:25:19 Well my small russian dictionary doesn't have anything like that. 14:25:44 (Nor do I recall ever having to pronounce such a word.) 14:26:42 (bummer) 14:26:55 it has днепропетровск but not the labial version 14:29:07 Right. The Днепр is a river. Dnieper in english, isn't that nice... 14:30:53 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:32:52 Oh, this is nice. `дно' means `bottom', its plural is `донья' 14:33:51 And from `ден' they derive `днём', `during daytime'. 14:34:03 (`ден' = `day') 14:35:35 -!- dianne has joined. 14:36:19 ah good i found дна 14:36:29 but wiktionary couldn't find that 14:37:34 oh should have done a proper search 14:37:56 пей до дна 14:39:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:40:00 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:43:07 Sigh. пей is both "drink!" and "sing!" 14:43:23 sing to the bottom... well, no. 14:44:23 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:45:58 now if it was also "women!" russians would have it easy 14:46:59 oho, less than a day... <-- ah. 14:49:50 * int-e wonders whether oerjan deliberately misunderstood "drink!" to be a noun rather than an imperative verb form. 14:51:27 no, i deliberately avoided trying to turn "women" into a verb hth 14:53:14 Wait... 14:53:19 Oh yes 14:53:23 * Taneb is tired :( 14:57:49 Taneb: спи! (bah, stupid irregular verbs) 14:58:12 Aww, it's 4 in the afternoon and a sunny day 14:58:35 Ok, go outside then. 14:59:08 (Just passing on advice I tend to get from my parents. You're welcome, no need to thank me.) 15:00:20 * int-e glimpses outside ... snow?! snow???!!!! WHY??!?!!!!? 15:00:54 Where the hell are you? It's May! 15:00:59 Or April! 15:01:01 One of those! 15:01:07 Innsbruck. It's snowing, but thawing immediately. 15:01:27 @metar LOWI 15:01:27 LOWI 061450Z 26010KT 190V290 4000 R08/P1500D R26/P1500N SHSN SCT003 SCT010 BKN015 02/M01 Q1024 WS R26 TEMPO SHSN 15:01:34 Ew. 15:01:40 WS, wet snow? 15:01:44 int-e: same here yesterday 15:02:07 i guess i'm further north, or something. 15:03:00 oerjan, you are certainly further north 15:03:10 SHSN = snow showers. WS = wind shear 15:03:35 oerjan, aren't you in like one of the furthest north large cities in Europe? 15:05:53 "R26", what do you mean, runway 26? There is only one runway there... (approachable from two directions, maybe that makes 2). 15:10:37 Taneb: i think it depends a lot on your cutoff for "large city". 15:11:07 Hmmm 15:11:43 murmansk is larger, and far more north 15:12:09 OK 15:12:52 Anyway I am going to get some sleep 15:12:59 * oerjan hates that google maps removed the quick zoomout bar 15:15:32 fähigkeit: 2 mana - fügt 30 schade zu 15:15:37 damn 15:15:39 fc 15:15:44 But yeah, the runway ends are marked 26 and 08. Funny. 15:16:01 myname: zu schade. 15:17:21 also, i don't like that if you zoom out enough to see all of scandinavia and murmansk, all the city names disappear. 15:17:29 (is there a direction encoded in the numbers... looks that way: "Runways are named by a number between 01 and 36, which is generally the magnetic azimuth of the runway's heading in decadegrees" 15:17:35 well, nearly all. 15:17:59 ) 15:18:32 hm i guess they wouldn't want two runways in the same direction. 15:19:40 They do. They get suffixes: L, M, R. 15:19:56 (I'm reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runway ) 15:20:27 (It gets really funny when there are more than 3 parallely runways) 15:20:33 s/y// 15:20:38 hmm. 15:20:51 s/reall/really/; s/lely/lel/ 15:23:39 And its L, C, R. 15:23:44 -!- variable has joined. 15:31:26 ah. 15:32:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:42:49 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 15:59:17 @metar EGLL 15:59:18 EGLL 061550Z 02008KT 340V050 9999 FEW032 15/08 Q1032 TEMPO BKN014 15:59:32 I was told this place is cold and rainy. 16:01:49 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 16:04:43 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:10:04 let's create a really awful language called every_other_language 16:10:20 so that you can say "every_other_language sucks" 16:10:43 then someone shall create a language called "this_language" which is just a little bit better 16:10:55 so that he can say "this_language is better than every_other_language" 16:12:31 already done? 16:19:02 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 16:23:07 -!- roasted42 has joined. 16:24:05 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 16:24:05 -!- roasted42 has joined. 16:24:05 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 16:25:32 @metar CYQB 16:25:33 CYQB 061600Z 23004KT 30SM BKN220 M03/M16 A3031 RMK CI7 SLP270 16:28:56 -!- ^v has joined. 16:36:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:36:41 -!- augur has joined. 16:40:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CLAD CHICKEN). 17:01:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:32:21 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:32:55 -!- int-e has left ("CONTRAPOSITIVE CHICKEN"). 17:32:55 -!- int-e has joined. 17:36:06 -!- hassa-aravit has quit (K-Lined). 17:50:49 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:52:48 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 18:02:08 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: brb). 18:02:51 -!- roasted42 has joined. 18:05:14 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 18:05:14 -!- roasted42 has joined. 18:05:14 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 18:08:48 -!- Apostle has joined. 18:08:51 Hello. 18:09:11 -!- Apostle has changed nick to Inji. 18:14:05 hello 18:15:33 So I've never been here before. 18:15:37 This is a huge esoteric chat 18:17:00 `welcome Inji 18:17:01 Inji: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:17:21 Oh... 18:17:26 So it's not actual esotericism. 18:17:26 why no relcome? 18:17:30 It's a joke language. 18:17:52 myname, I wasn't in the mood 18:18:09 Inji, yeah, we're a programming channel 18:18:14 Stick around, if you want! 18:18:16 I should've known. 18:20:29 -!- Inji has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:21:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Changing server). 18:23:35 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:24:09 -!- ^v^v has joined. 18:27:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:30:17 -!- augur_ has joined. 18:34:21 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: bye for now). 18:41:07 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:57:35 -!- variable has joined. 19:24:14 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:39:10 -!- nszceta has joined. 19:40:55 Isit just me, or is the fopen() function designed terribly? 19:41:16 it's not just you 19:41:53 I don't like the way it takes a string for its parameters 19:42:03 I think it evolved rather than being designed 19:42:20 it's more or less fit for its purpose but not elegant ;) 19:44:36 -!- Guest24483 has changed nick to elliott. 19:44:40 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 19:44:40 -!- elliott has joined. 19:45:00 `elcome elliott 19:45:01 lliott: elcome o he nternational ub or soteric rogramming anguage esign nd eployment! or ore nformation, heck ut ur iki: . (or he ther ind f soterica, ry #soteric n rc.al.et.) 19:45:08 hanks 19:45:16 (elliott may have been here before, I forgot. ;-) ) 19:46:10 Is .rg or .et a real TLD? 19:46:50 .et I guess would be for aliens? 19:47:37 Ethopia actually. 19:47:54 elliott: to answer your question, yes I'm actually on the NHDT 19:47:54 oh, right. 19:47:58 Sgeo: ^ 19:47:58 .et is Ethiopia, .rg does not exist 19:48:16 Oh there's an i there. 19:48:20 coppro: why the 5 days wait :p 19:48:37 elliott: I only remembered now 19:48:42 (that you asked about it) 19:48:47 coppro, NHDT? 19:48:57 coppro: you told me at the time it was part of an april fool's or something 19:49:09 .rg ... um, maybe a site for the greatness of Roentgenium? 19:49:32 elliott: The April Fool's was that the announcement was real 19:49:41 Taneb: NetHack DevTeam 19:49:51 Aaaaah 19:49:52 .rg is for role playing gamers who take RPGs seriously (they stopped playing) 19:50:24 coppro: dumb :P 19:50:32 ha! yes, indeed. ffvii.rg, masseffect.rg, etc 19:50:39 coppro: did ais not get on the devteam because naming it NH4 pissed them off 19:50:46 that's what I would like to believe 19:51:09 elliott: I don't actually know the reason. But most likely because he expressed that he wasn't sure he'd want to join 19:51:41 coppro: so does this mean I can literally rant to a nethack devteam member about how nethack fucking sucks now 19:51:44 awesome 19:52:08 yes 19:52:14 maybe in PM, but yes 19:54:12 (and I'm serious, feedback is good. it won't all get fixed next release, but it's still good) 19:55:59 The only feedback I can give on Nethack is that I am not very good at it 20:07:31 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 20:13:36 -!- nszceta_ has joined. 20:15:06 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:16:02 -!- nszceta_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:16:56 -!- nszceta has joined. 20:18:13 -!- magician has joined. 20:18:37 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest72111. 20:22:12 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:22:12 -!- Guest72111 has changed nick to Guest3780. 20:23:52 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:27:28 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:27 -!- augur has joined. 20:39:04 -!- orin has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:47:57 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:48:49 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 20:48:53 When Pokemon Pinball is loaded into Visual Boy Advance, Pikachu is being too quietly! 20:59:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:00:54 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:01:52 -!- oren has joined. 21:08:21 -!- variable has joined. 21:22:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:23:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:32:26 mechanical keys 21:32:28 instant convert 21:44:05 what are you playing 21:45:27 -!- adu has joined. 21:46:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:46:28 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:47:04 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 21:52:41 -!- shikhout has joined. 21:52:44 -!- shikhout has changed nick to Guest90138. 21:52:52 -!- Guest90138 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:46 coppro: my feedback could only be resolved by redesigning the entire game, sorry :p 22:07:54 Then make up a new game. 22:08:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:08:55 Gregor: great idling there 22:11:41 Inji, yeah, we're a programming channel <-- if we'd managed to send all those people to a place where they'd stay, it would have been a huge channel by now. 22:12:02 sadly, something something critical mass. 22:12:21 I wonder if there's a channel somewhere out there that keeps getting people who want to be here 22:12:32 #haskell hth 22:12:41 :P 22:12:55 but do they want to be there? really? 22:13:04 `? haskell 22:13:05 Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 22:13:29 whoa, implicitparams 22:13:59 :t ? haskle 22:14:00 Not in scope: ‘?’ 22:14:00 Not in scope: ‘haskle’ 22:14:00 Perhaps you meant ‘handle’ (imported from Control.Exception) 22:14:42 haskle would be the obvious norwegian borrowing from the english verb haskell 22:15:34 ler deg haskle med ørjan? 22:16:16 *lær deg å 22:18:17 the å isn't optional in norwegian, yet. although with the speed we're absorbing swedish constructions, ask again in a decade or two. 22:20:39 or maybe they're english constructions. 22:21:02 not sure, I think the å (att) is probably not really optional in swedish 22:21:08 ok 22:21:28 i found a google hit so may have misinterpreted. 22:23:23 do swedes say "jag har tänkt att [haskla]" or "jag har tänkt till att [haskla]"? 22:25:15 because the shift from the former to the latter in norwegian is one of the grating examples to this old fart 22:25:21 the former, but it sounds quite formal still 22:25:29 ah. 22:26:02 I'd probably say "jag tänkte haskla" 22:26:21 oh. again, the "å" is not optional. 22:26:58 very well. my obvious theory of the origin of this travesty has been proved wrong, then. 22:32:10 haskell is a verb? 22:32:30 otherwise, how could there be haskellers 22:33:00 As in "I haskelled a program"? 22:33:08 I haskelled a haskell 22:33:20 Or is it "I haskold a program"? 22:33:27 "We have haskelled a lot over the past few days" 22:33:31 (like tell, told) 22:33:38 I don't think Haskell takes an object 22:33:43 I mean, it's not Java 22:33:51 good point 22:38:12 elliott: just play crawl then 22:38:27 coppro: the exact same applies to crawl actually 22:38:43 elliott: play ADOM then :P 22:38:50 * coppro ducks 22:38:51 admittedly I find it more fun, but 22:38:58 coppro: ADOM is designed? 22:39:27 Go play a real video game, you nerd 22:40:18 elliott, play Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team 22:41:04 そう言えば、どこかgoogleは日本語の動詞「ググる」と読んだ。たとえば、「その映画をググりました」。 22:41:06 * Taneb is helping 22:41:11 or Chocobo Dungeon 22:41:32 elliott: when you say 'the exact same', do you mean the same issues? or only that it needs a redesign 22:41:39 the latter 22:41:42 They should just make a game where you delve through a dungeon as a goat and crash into things 22:41:49 elliott: also, a significant part of NetHack is likely to get redesigned over the next while, assuming the DT remains active. 22:41:53 nethack and crawl have tons of issues but probably mostly not the same ones 22:41:54 So I'm still interested in hearing :) 22:42:04 that's scary :P 22:42:07 changing nethack at all is scary 22:42:18 how can you disturb the delicate balance of everything just slightly not at all working 22:42:20 Jafet: If you know how to and what deatils, you make up! 22:42:39 hackcode can't really be scarier than it already is 22:42:59 elliott: some of the bigger issues like Gehennom are definitely on the radar screen 22:43:25 Make some for Famicom. 22:43:31 I think I'm going to end up twisting my neck 22:43:46 My monitor is to my right side, my laptop is straight in front of me 22:43:54 I suspect my design philosophy coheres with exactly zero of the nethack devteam members, anyway. for what it's worth, sil, brogue and necrodancer are the roguelikes that come to mind as having the most admirable design, though the former two at least are certainly flawed (and the latter relies on the gimmick to be an effective game) 22:45:32 There are also "small roguelikes" such as KING and The Rougelike! 22:45:51 elliott: I'm still interested in hearing 22:45:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:45:57 I can't speak for other team members 22:46:03 * Sgeo hasn't played either Crawl or Nethack in a while 22:46:11 The latter for the dumbest possible reason 22:46:15 tbh it has been so long since I played NH that i probably can't give much concrete 22:46:47 "how about getting rid of all the grinding and instadeaths and really spoilery things" 22:47:12 Gehennom is the big grind 22:47:15 I have a reasonable game going on NAO, and for the past N years have been scared of messing it up. 22:47:18 that's the only real problem area for that I think 22:47:27 what do you mean by spoilery things? 22:47:58 I mean like 80% of the game. 22:48:07 ohhh 22:48:23 (that's the only grind in nethack? have you ever seen an altar??) 22:48:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:48:54 oh yeah, good point 22:48:57 Is Crawl grindy? iirc one of the philosophies is antigrind 22:49:11 less so 22:49:28 In crawl you grind through adventurers 22:49:29 it can be tedious in many ways but they're not generally "doing the exact same thing N times" 22:50:07 coppro: okay, here's my one concrete suggestion: please, god, either automate or eliminate price-id 22:50:23 yeah 22:50:42 the identification game in general needs attention 23:07:49 -!- augur has joined. 23:09:37 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 23:09:56 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting). 23:11:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:13:14 -!- Melvar has joined. 23:19:03 -!- augur has joined. 23:29:10 -!- idris-bot has joined. 23:48:11 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 2015-04-07: 00:10:46 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:49:44 -!- adu has joined. 00:53:51 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:08:39 -!- magician has joined. 01:09:03 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest92232. 01:11:41 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:11:41 -!- Guest92232 has changed nick to Guest3780. 01:14:24 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:14:24 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:14:46 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:17:28 Is it possible to define a general ordering of triples in RDF graphs (using the same definition of ordering regardless of which graph) even though there are blank nodes? (Blank nodes are like anonymous nodes; they don't have any ordering, and may be used multiple times.) Assume that if a blank node is wired in a particular way to the rest of the graph, it is indistinguishable for purpose of checking if a graph is the same or not. 01:19:04 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:07 -!- sdfgsdfg has joined. 01:28:42 -!- augur has joined. 01:31:49 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:01:09 Could we not simply "pick the graph up" by a certain node? 02:01:31 Which one? 02:02:28 hmmm 02:04:18 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 02:05:00 You may be able to simplify the problem by considering only the blank nodes, since everything else can already be ordered. 02:05:31 first, construct an ordering for graphs with numbered nodes. then, for each unnumbered graph, take the minimum numbered one. 02:05:44 absolutely no promises that this is tractable. 02:06:38 Note that these are directed graphs. 02:06:53 makes no difference... 02:07:04 oh wait 02:07:10 misread question. 02:07:18 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:07:46 the fact i've never heard of RDF graphs before doesn't help 02:09:01 That's OK; its exact definition isn't relevant. However, it may be described in a simplified way as such: A set of triples; the first and third may be either a URI or blank node, the second must be a URI. (It is actually a bit more complicated than that, but for the purpose of this problem everything else is irrelevant) 02:09:48 There is no problem ordering the URIs since you can just use strcmp 02:11:00 what's the problem with just defining blank nodes to be smaller than all URIs, say? 02:11:01 Each blank node is connected to N predicates as a object 02:11:40 and then order the triples lexicographically 02:12:12 so basically, as haskell's (Maybe URI, Maybe URI, Maybe URI) type 02:12:27 No, that isn't right. 02:12:36 The second one is guaranteed to be a URI 02:13:00 oh. well (Maybe URI, URI, Maybe URI) then. 02:14:05 i'm sort of assuming that's too simple but you haven't defined the problem in such a way that i can see why it is disallowed. 02:14:14 Let's say you have a unlabeled directed graph; it can become a RDF graph by making each node as a blank node and then the second one (called a predicate) is always or whatever (note that is not a blank node!). So, Maybe URI doesn't do it. 02:16:09 zzo38: my problem is that i have no information about what an RDF graph is other than a set of triples. 02:16:35 It is a graph composed of two types of vertexes. 02:17:02 the A type is connected to three B type vertexes 02:17:46 (with three distinct labeled edges) 02:18:09 the B type vertexes are arbitrary URI's or just "blank" 02:19:04 In addition, the second edge from each A type vertex always connects to a B type vertex which is a URI 02:19:36 That is one way to describe it, although I can prefer this way: It is a directed graph where vertexes can be labeled or blank, and edges are always labeled. There may be more than one blank node, but none of them have labels; and some may be used more than once. That's why (Maybe URI) does not describe a vertex. 02:20:32 oh i see the problem is that blank nodes have identity but not order 02:21:22 Yes, that's the problem I was asking about! 02:23:14 but a URI can only be used in one node, right? 02:23:34 Yes. 02:23:36 yes 02:23:44 (Although there may be multiple connections to and from it) 02:25:45 Hmm... we can start by putting the blank nodes which have a direct link to a URI node first 02:26:10 Yes I thought that might do, although still don't quite know how to continue then 02:26:32 and then ordering them by greatest 02:26:57 URI they are connected to (then by predicate, then by second greatest, etc) 02:27:56 well ok it is obviously possible to do in an intractable way, by first ordering triples in all graphs where blank nodes have been numbered, ordering the graphs themselves, then taking the triple ordering from the minimum graph 02:28:45 which arises from a numbering of your blank nodes 02:29:43 So if _AAA is connected to www.foo.com and _BBB is connected to vvv.foo.com then _BBB comes first 02:31:05 After all blank nodes which are connected to a URI have been ordered, we can use said ordering to order the blank nodes connected to them, and so on 02:32:00 however two blank nodes may be connected to the same URIs... 02:32:18 Then order by the predicate by which they are connected 02:32:33 And after that, take the second highest uri 02:32:39 what's a predicate 02:32:48 and so on like a "high-card" poker hand 02:32:53 The second element in the triple is called a predicate. 02:33:02 (The first is called a subject, and the third is called an object.) 02:33:44 -!- CADD_ has joined. 02:34:17 Unfortunately my idea fails in the case where all nodes are blank 02:34:31 hm unless there is some uniqueness property i haven't noticed/been told, this is probably impossible. 02:34:47 oren: Yes, that's another case you haven't considered 02:35:26 in fact, let's take two triples, with (B1, "url1", B1) and (B2, "url1", B2) 02:35:44 oerjan: In that specific case, it doesn't matter the order. 02:35:44 B1 and B2 are blank. there is absolutely no distinction between the riples. 02:35:50 *+t 02:36:06 Because exchanging B1 with B2 doesn't change it at all. 02:36:08 when does the order batter 02:36:23 s/ba/ma/ 02:37:21 argh 02:37:38 (In other words, the graph "looks the same" from B1 as it does from B2.) But, if you have: (B1, "url1", B2) (B3, "url1", B4) (B3, "url1", B5) then B1 and B2 and B3 are distinct, although you can exchange B4 with B5 without changing it. 02:38:00 so the ordering is only unique up to isomorphisms of the graph 02:38:15 Yes. 02:40:53 but your special case of an unlabeled directed graph becomes "can you order the edges of an unlabeled directed graph" 02:41:29 Yes, and I expect that a solution to that problem can easily be extended to work with any RDF graphs then. 02:42:05 i vaguely suspect this is at least as hard as graph isomorphism 02:42:45 Yes, I would think so too. 02:44:09 Just in case you are curious, the additional part of the definition of a RDF graph that I have not yet mentioned is that the object (the third part of the triple) can also be a "literal", which means a pair consisting of a URI and a string. (This is irrelevant to the problem I mentioned though; I simply mention it in case you need to know exactly what a "RDF graph" is for other purposes.) 02:51:05 -!- CADD_ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 02:54:40 mhm 02:56:46 Suppose we start by getting each node two numbers, the number of outgoing and ingoing edges 02:57:26 I loaded "graph isomorphism" in Wikipedia now to try to learn a few other stuff, but still don't quite know 02:57:32 oren: OK, that's one start 02:58:16 Then within each set of nodes, each node's "poker hand" is the N,M of the nodes it is connected to 02:59:29 I'm thinking ofan iterative process where we keep reordering the nodes which are still undistinct... 03:00:23 until no change occurs. 03:04:28 I also thought of what I now learned is called "graph canonization" (actually I thought of the same name for it); so, if you can figure out the order of blank nodes then you can replace them with URIs and so on and then you can easily order the triples. (Of course this is a hypothetical "canon:" URI scheme) 03:05:12 I still don't know how to do this though, but making up such a canonical form would easily allow them to be ordered; but you can also do it the other way around, so that you can make up such a canonical form from the ordering is the other way. 03:06:36 zzo38: i think that's what i meant with the numbering? 03:06:58 or well 03:07:49 So. take the example from above: B1,B2 B3,B4 B3,B5. The initial numbering would be B1-(1,0) B2,B4,B5-(0,1) B3-(2,0) 03:08:11 i think the numbering thing still works, it's just that if the graph has self-isomorphisms then the minimal graph can also be reached by all of those. 03:08:43 So the initial order is B2=B4=B5,B1,B3 03:10:08 Now B2 is connected to B1, and B4,B5 are connected to B3, and B1 outranks B3. Thus B2 outrank B4,B5. 03:10:31 The new ordering on step 2 is B2,B4=B5,B1,B3 03:11:15 B4 and B5 are still equal, so there is no change, and the algorithm teminates 03:11:47 (they are qual becuase theya re both only connected to B3) 03:11:48 Ah, OK I can see that now 03:17:07 However, you have to prove it! 03:25:27 -!- adu has joined. 03:25:36 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 03:28:01 -!- adu has joined. 03:39:52 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 03:55:35 This RDF graph contains three blank nodes: http://zzo38computer.org/my_foaf.ttl The blank nodes are identified here as [], _:1, and _:2. (Each [] is a distinct blank node (although that isn't relevant here because there is only one); but each _: with the same name identifies the same blank node.) This graph contains many non-blank nodes too. Canonizing would require numbering each blank node. Note that using _:a _:b _:c in place of [] _:1 _:2 03:56:50 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:02:45 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:04:22 -!- Sprocklem has changed nick to tub. 04:04:37 -!- tub has changed nick to tumb. 04:04:57 -!- tumb has changed nick to Sprocklem. 04:04:57 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42317&oldid=42265 * SuperJedi224 * (+7684) 04:05:37 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42318&oldid=42317 * SuperJedi224 * (-2) 04:06:00 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42319&oldid=42318 * SuperJedi224 * (+1) /* An interpreter in Java */ 04:14:04 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42320&oldid=42319 * SuperJedi224 * (-161) /* An interpreter in Java: */ 04:17:40 -!- Sprocklem has changed nick to rub. 04:17:59 -!- rub has changed nick to Sprocklem. 04:23:31 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:40:41 This is a (badly drawn) diagram of part of such a graph: http://zzo38computer.org/img_17/my_foaf.png In order that you can see how it works. The circles indicate the blank nodes; they will then need to be ordered. 04:50:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gah). 04:54:56 A diagram of the full graph (except for literals?) is at http://graves.cl/visualRDF/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fzzo38computer.org%2Fmy_foaf.ttl although it can be hard to read. This one also displays names for blank nodes (even though they don't really have names; names can be used in a representation for obvious uses though), and abbreviates some URIs that are commonly used in RDF. 05:03:56 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:18:37 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:32:12 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 05:47:56 -!- zadock has joined. 05:48:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:18:41 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:23:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:23:44 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest3839. 06:27:40 -!- Guest3839 has quit (Client Quit). 06:37:34 -!- shikkhin has joined. 06:40:02 -!- shikkhin has quit (Client Quit). 06:44:21 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:31:18 -!- CADD has joined. 07:35:05 I can't really take this "studying 70 min a day is optimal" study that serious. 07:35:23 apparentely students who learn the longest are the worst students. 07:35:49 which makes sense because the sooner you get it the less long you actually have to study. 07:36:20 so it shouldn't be surprising that students who learn longer on average probably do that because they are not very good at the subject. 07:48:49 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 07:49:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:00:56 "Judge Allows Divorce Papers To Be Served Via Facebook" uhm... 08:00:58 ok...? 08:01:07 fungot: Do you have a Facebook account? 08:01:07 mroman: gcc 3 doesn't know about. and either you get threatened with lawsuits and the like 08:01:35 Good. gcc3 is probably a facebook profile stalker anyway. 08:08:41 The actual optimal studying amount is "all the time", but you should study more than one thing. 08:11:47 I should study breakfast 08:15:37 Indeed. Good pancakes and french toast require intensive study to perfect 08:17:23 (I often end up burning my pancakes) 08:22:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:26:10 Holy crap, i didn't know there was kanji for sulfuric acid 08:28:51 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:29:56 hey fungot, have you tried cooking pancakes with sulfuric acid? 08:29:57 oren: about the wiki? :) ( i'm attracted to these types of problems), if fnord enough times, could mutate some input into a more optimal way? 08:46:51 -!- zadock has joined. 08:52:41 -!- nszceta has joined. 08:58:52 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 09:34:49 -!- sdfgsdfg has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:43:39 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:56:16 -!- nszceta has joined. 09:57:12 -!- nszceta has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 09:57:43 fungot: fnord 09:57:43 mroman: or has a contradiction... non-imperative?) from the keyboard 09:59:03 -!- nszceta has joined. 10:01:40 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:04:11 フノルドって何? 10:04:38 fungot, funorudo tte nani? 10:04:38 oren: why didn't i think of that. gentoo also starts with s! 2. blahbot, dead, dead, is just conditional reading 10:04:48 naruhodo 10:15:16 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42321&oldid=42320 * SuperJedi224 * (+142) /* An interpreter in Java: */ 10:16:01 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42322&oldid=42321 * SuperJedi224 * (+9) 10:16:50 sgentoo. 10:20:21 -!- lleu has joined. 10:32:33 What if a "language" existed in which "programming" was done by pavlovian conditioning on small animals? 10:33:38 E.g. to do an "and" you condition them to push a button only when two lights are on. 10:42:22 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 10:44:16 Related: http://arxiv.org/abs/1204.1749 10:45:30 awesome. crab-based computing 10:46:51 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42323&oldid=42322 * SuperJedi224 * (+179) /* An interpreter in Java: */ 10:55:56 -!- shikkhin has joined. 10:58:09 -!- shikkhin has quit (Client Quit). 11:03:00 -!- shikkhin has joined. 11:03:02 -!- shikkhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:07:34 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Changing server). 11:07:34 -!- oren has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:07:49 -!- shikhout has joined. 11:07:50 -!- shikhout has changed nick to Guest50683. 11:08:11 -!- aloril_ has joined. 11:09:56 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:31:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:31:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:36:55 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds). 11:38:47 -!- ski has joined. 11:48:54 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:50:43 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 11:54:50 -!- orin has joined. 11:56:41 Help, someone (I know not who) made https://github.com/jimrustlesPhD/Taneb/blob/master/Taneb.erl 11:59:37 it was jimrustlesPhD hth 12:00:43 shachaf, I know not who that is 12:01:43 Taneb: perhaps you know who https://github.com/icydoge is? 12:01:54 Yes, I know that person 12:02:03 But they are almost certainly different people 12:02:16 https://erlangcentral.org/erlang-projects/details/15724 suggests some sort of connection 12:03:04 Only in that they both contributed to this git project 12:03:19 I know who everyone is but the author of that erlang 12:03:45 Ah. 12:04:45 Is that Jim Rustles, PhD, or Jim Rustle's PhD? 12:04:54 Jafet, it is unclear 12:05:08 I don't think that "Jim Rustles" is the author's real name 12:06:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:27:41 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:34:37 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42324&oldid=42323 * SuperJedi224 * (+95) /* An interpreter in Java: */ 12:38:00 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42325&oldid=42324 * SuperJedi224 * (+25) /* An interpreter in Java: */ 12:47:20 At least it's multi-functional. 12:49:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:49:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:04:53 so... I can't visit other courses at my university. 13:05:05 Well, I can visit them... but I'm not allowed to attend the final exams. 13:05:24 which absolutely sucks. 13:12:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:12:51 Well, exams don't work so well if you've seen them before. 13:13:11 uhm...? 13:13:15 What are you talking about? 13:14:36 If you were to take the same course later, you would see the same exam again. 13:16:05 -!- Guest50683 has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 13:16:36 No 13:16:40 They write new exams each semester 13:16:44 but that's not really the point. 13:17:10 I thought since I'm still working at this university I could just attend some courses and get a piece of paper that states that I visited and passed them 13:17:46 to broaden my skills 13:17:50 but they don't allow that. 13:18:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:18:19 because bureaucracy. 13:18:27 Shouldn't be too hard for the docent to correct one exam more 13:19:17 and the office to print some piece of paper and stamp it 13:19:45 they have the tools for that anyway 13:20:07 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:20:22 every student can keep track of his grades/credits in the universities online tool and can print out a report and get it stamped 13:25:07 -!- shikkhin has joined. 13:25:30 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Changing server). 13:26:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:31:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Changing server). 13:39:55 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 13:40:01 -!- nortti has changed nick to []{}\|-_`^. 13:40:07 -!- []{}\|-_`^ has changed nick to nortti. 13:51:51 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 13:54:23 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 13:57:20 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Changing server). 13:58:33 -!- shikkhin has changed nick to shikhin. 13:58:49 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 13:58:49 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:00:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:01:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 14:04:26 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:04:27 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest75986. 14:05:08 -!- Guest75986 has changed nick to shikhout. 14:05:29 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 14:05:29 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:07:51 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 14:14:36 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:15:32 -!- shikhin has changed nick to sammwch. 14:15:54 -!- sammwch has changed nick to shikhin. 14:19:15 -!- shikhin has changed nick to sammwch. 14:19:17 -!- sammwch has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:19:26 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:19:49 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest53355. 14:20:18 -!- Guest53355 has changed nick to shikhout. 14:20:26 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 14:20:26 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:20:36 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 14:21:27 -!- nortti has changed nick to shikh. 14:21:34 -!- shikh has changed nick to nortti. 14:24:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:36:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Cya.). 14:36:27 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:36:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:36:52 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest38099. 14:37:05 [wiki] [[User:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42326&oldid=42267 * SuperJedi224 * (+33) 14:37:54 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42327&oldid=42325 * SuperJedi224 * (+24) 14:38:02 -!- Guest38099 has quit (Client Quit). 14:45:24 -!- nszceta has joined. 14:46:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:46:54 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest35710. 14:47:24 -!- Guest35710 has changed nick to shikhout. 14:47:29 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 14:47:29 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:50:21 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42328&oldid=42002 * 108.171.128.160 * (+107) 14:52:44 -!- shikhout has quit (Quit: Cya.). 14:54:43 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:54:49 -!- shikhout has changed nick to Guest43016. 15:02:08 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 15:10:00 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 15:11:49 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 15:17:17 -!- Guest43016 has quit (Quit: Cya.). 15:17:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Changing server). 15:18:26 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:18:38 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest65879. 15:20:54 -!- Guest65879 has quit (Client Quit). 15:23:02 -!- shikherr has joined. 15:24:24 -!- shikherr has quit (Changing host). 15:24:25 -!- shikherr has joined. 15:24:55 -!- shikherr has quit (Client Quit). 15:25:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:25:39 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest71592. 15:26:03 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:27:29 -!- variable has joined. 15:29:23 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 15:29:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:29:42 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 15:43:46 -!- `^_^v has left ("Leaving"). 15:43:50 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:03:54 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:05:18 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:16:07 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:19:47 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 16:30:48 -!- Guest71592 has changed nick to shikhin. 16:31:08 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 16:31:08 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:39:31 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:42:04 -!- variable has joined. 16:44:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:44:48 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 16:54:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Cya.). 16:54:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:54:58 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest11133. 16:56:47 -!- Guest11133 has changed nick to shikhout. 16:56:52 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 16:56:52 -!- shikhout has joined. 16:57:48 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:58:09 -!- shikhout has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:58:17 -!- shikhout has joined. 16:58:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:58:37 -!- shikhout has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:58:42 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhout. 16:58:49 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:59:13 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest39441. 17:00:54 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:08:17 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:12:10 -!- shikhout has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:13:29 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: snoonet). 17:13:47 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:16:09 -!- Guest39441 has quit (Quit: Cya.). 17:16:42 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:34:20 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:06:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:09:22 mroman: The university my father works for (YorkU) doesn't allow him to attend a course in the manner you describe, but does allow *me* to do so... Maybe you should impersonate your own son? 18:11:08 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 18:15:10 -!- zadock has joined. 18:15:47 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 18:21:15 -!- shikhin has changed nick to BrieFly. 18:21:45 -!- BrieFly has changed nick to shikhin. 18:22:11 -!- shikhin has changed nick to BrieFly. 18:23:24 -!- BrieFly has changed nick to shikhin. 18:30:17 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:58:37 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:16:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:16:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:16:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 19:16:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:26:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:27:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:28:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:42:41 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 19:45:11 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:48:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:58:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:13:53 -!- nycs has joined. 20:16:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:32:52 -!- FreeFull has quit. 20:41:23 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42329&oldid=42327 * SuperJedi224 * (+4) /* An interpreter in Java: */ 20:45:39 -!- Helina has joined. 20:46:10 -!- Helina has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:58:41 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:00:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:21:08 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:22:46 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:23:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:24:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:34:41 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:37:36 -!- izabera has joined. 21:42:15 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:44:36 -!- izabera has joined. 21:45:00 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:56:39 [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42330&oldid=41915 * Rottytooth * (+38) added tag 21:57:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:57:43 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:59:39 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42331&oldid=42329 * SuperJedi224 * (+157) /* An interpreter in Java: */ 22:04:02 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 22:06:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:10:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:22:38 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 22:23:38 -!- dianne has joined. 22:25:51 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:47:09 -!- boily has joined. 22:47:41 bood daily 22:58:30 bon sørjȧn! 22:59:12 darn i thought i'd finally made a portmanteau so impenetrable you didn't recognize it 22:59:59 no portmanteau too deep, no conflagration too outrageous. 23:01:32 @metar CYUL 23:01:34 CYUL 072200Z 15003KT 30SM FEW240 05/M15 A3040 RMK CI1 CI TR SLP295 23:01:48 finally thawing? 23:01:48 IT'S OVER ZERO THOUSANDS! 23:01:56 at last! 23:01:57 @metar ENVA 23:01:58 ENVA 072250Z 28032KT 9999 FEW015 BKN030 06/01 Q1017 RMK WIND 670FT 29034G52KT 23:02:16 eek canadians catching up 23:02:20 * boily is doing the dance of finally probably getting something higher than Norway soon! 23:02:41 <(^_^<) (>^_^)> ♪ 23:02:45 * oerjan imagines that as very silly 23:02:59 involving handstand jumps 23:03:09 no handstands tonight. I ate soup. 23:03:13 ah. 23:03:17 `? szoup 23:03:24 @metår KSJC 23:03:24 KSJC 072253Z 21011G19KT 10SM FEW028 SCT050 BKN090 15/03 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP139 T01500028 PNO 23:03:41 A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 23:03:50 shachaf: SJC? 23:04:19 Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport hth 23:06:01 tdh. you're there twh? 23:06:37 nearby hth 23:06:46 tah. 23:06:55 almost helped? 23:07:37 apparently we'll be playing kubb on sunday 23:07:50 that also helps hth 23:07:59 @google kubb 23:08:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubb 23:08:00 Title: Kubb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 23:08:04 ... 23:08:45 ah! a lawn game! 23:08:55 * boily stays away from a very safe distance 23:09:50 boilƴ 23:10:46 there's a suspicious pixel attached to my "y". 23:11:18 `unidecode ƴ 23:11:19 ​[U+01B4 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH HOOK] 23:11:22 let me scratch it off 23:11:25 boilɏ 23:11:26 oops 23:11:30 ... 23:11:34 * boily mapoles shachaf 23:12:14 i think in this case it should be mapołes 23:12:29 ł is my nemesis 23:12:37 always looks like there's some dirt on my screen 23:18:48 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42332&oldid=42262 * 194.168.93.97 * (+10) /* M */ 23:21:41 [wiki] [[Meq]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42333 * 194.168.93.97 * (+1881) Created page with "Meq was created by Richard Sparrow in April 2015. Hello World
 .==++>:+>+>[:++++++++>]:=+>===++>.===+++++++>:=+>:=++++>:++++++++>:rp>p>>p>p>p>p>p>p>p>p>p! 
Inst..." 23:21:59 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:32 [wiki] [[Meq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42334&oldid=42333 * 194.168.93.97 * (+64) 23:25:48 I smell the unmistakeable fumet of a brainfuck derivative... 23:26:01 Just bigger. 23:26:30 Why derive from BF is you are just going to unFuck it? 23:27:26 -!- AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 23:29:39 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheMeq * New user account 23:30:14 [wiki] [[Meq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42335&oldid=42334 * TheMeq * (+14) 23:30:23 [wiki] [[Meq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42336&oldid=42335 * TheMeq * (+4) 23:31:16 [wiki] [[Meq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42337&oldid=42336 * TheMeq * (+0) 23:31:51 [wiki] [[User:TheMeq]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42338 * TheMeq * (+70) Created page with "Hi, I'm TheMeq I developed the [[Meq]] esoteric programming language!" 23:32:05 -!- magician has joined. 23:32:51 metar CYYZ 23:33:00 `metar CYYZ 23:33:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: metar: not found 23:33:11 @metar CYYZ 23:33:11 CYYZ 072300Z 09007KT 15SM BKN090 BKN130 06/M08 A3031 RMK AC5AC2 SLP272 23:33:56 ƳƳȤ 23:34:08 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:34:08 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780. 23:36:43 I think they gave toronto the letters left over... 23:42:06 -!- magician has joined. 23:44:24 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:44:24 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780. 23:45:01 orin: probably the name of some nearby beacon. that's why Dorval is YUL. 23:47:43 * oerjan read that as bacon and was a bit confused 23:49:42 * boily feeds fungot some proximal bacon 23:49:42 boily: the example was just a test to see if freenode would get its security act together? 23:50:26 bacon, the next irc threat 23:52:41 orin: apparently, YTO is the area (probably similar to the GTA, need more details). then you have YTZ for Billy Bishop, YKZ for Buttonville and YYZ for Pearson. 23:54:25 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 23:54:27 aha! http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question130856.html, with AyatollaH's reply giving credible details. 23:56:21 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:56:47 @metar LLBG 23:56:48 LLBG 072350Z VRB01KT CAVOK 15/06 Q1012 NOSIG 23:57:53 @metar OREN 23:57:53 No result. 23:57:57 @metar ORIN 23:57:57 No result. 23:58:42 ORxx airports are in Okinawa. 23:59:06 uhm. ROxx, says I. 23:59:20 ORxx is Iraq. 23:59:44 @metar ORAN 23:59:44 No result. 23:59:49 @metar ORBA 23:59:49 No result. 2015-04-08: 00:00:17 @metar ORBI 00:00:17 ORBI 080000Z 00000KT CAVOK 19/06 Q1010 NOSIG 00:00:47 @metar ORER 00:00:47 ORER 072300Z 15004KT CAVOK 13/08 Q1013 NOSIG 00:00:53 It 00:21:26 I made up a new variant of Magic: the Gathering now, it is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/randcommand.var 00:31:38 long live conspiracies! 00:37:33 Have you dreamt of nonexisting episodes of television shows? 00:39:59 as far as my memory serves, no, I think not. 00:40:22 * boily flunked zzo38's Roman Catholic quiz. «maudit qu'y'est pas facile!» 00:42:20 boily: Well, some of the questions are difficult; which questions did you miss? 00:42:52 I got 19 out of 42. most were guessed... 00:43:23 I do know the guy's called St-François-d'Assise. other than that they were wildly random. 00:47:16 What kind of religions are you though? 00:48:47 atheist. I was born and raised Roman Catholic for about the first half of my life. 00:50:48 Ah, OK. (I was also born and raised Roman Catholic, and sometimes still go to church on Christmas Eve) 00:52:19 I do know Catholics, atheists, and a few others though. (I consider myself a panendeist.) 00:52:31 `? panendeist 00:52:32 panendeist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:55:19 There is still much to read in the Bible though, even if you are not Christian. I think I even read in some book written by an atheist, in a list of books he recommended, the Bible was included in that list too. 00:55:44 Of course there is much to read in other books too! 00:56:07 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42339&oldid=42331 * SuperJedi224 * (-8038) /* An interpreter in Java: */ 00:56:59 books are made to be read. it's their purpose in life. 00:57:28 that's what they want you to think 00:58:58 boily: Yes, clearly, that is what it is, otherwise you don't need to write on it. 01:04:59 oerjan: yes, and I agree. I hope you take good care of your books and that you pet them regularly. 01:13:19 :( 01:14:35 :(? :( 01:20:19 panendeist - um, lemme see pan=all en=in dei=god ist=believer "someone who believes all is in god" ? 01:27:07 That emoticon looks seird when \ is a yen sign 01:30:26 ¥ is ¥, and \ is \. 01:31:47 boily: In Japanese locales \ renders as the yen sign. 01:31:47 Hmm... apparently the first one is a double-width yen sign 01:32:21 For legacy reasons. 01:32:51 pikhq: I know. it's surprising the first time you're Team Viewing some desktop in Japan and all paths are C:¥...¥...¥... 01:32:58 :) 01:33:24 and then you discover that in Korea it's wons all the way, but then you half-expected it anyway. 01:33:36 pikhq: That's because it is the Japanese character encoding I think. And then some people wanted to do it even if you are using different encoding 01:34:20 zzo38: Ish. In legacy Japanese encodings there is no \ but the yen sign is encoded the same as \ in ASCII. 01:34:46 pikhq: Yes, that's what I meant the Japanese character encoding has a yen sign where standard ASCII has a backslash. 01:35:05 So semantically it was treated as a backslash... 01:35:22 Even the Famicom keyboard has a yen sign, but no backslash. 01:35:26 And when they switched to Unicode they still wanted the thing-that-acted-like-backslash to look like a yen sign. :) 01:35:55 I've seen anime where there are computer classes and it is like printf("%d¥n",i); 01:36:09 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 01:36:17 Yep. Though arguably that's incorrect C. 01:36:31 Such as in serial experiments Lain 01:39:04 Because their charset doesn't have \ it should be printf("%d??/n",i); 01:43:05 If the character encoding has a yen sign in the place where a backslash in ASCII, then you can use yen sign in that way; C is using ASCII encoding so a variant of ASCII still, you use whatever is in the correct position of the codes. Such as, some older ASCII codes use up arrow in place of ^ so in such codes you use up arrow where ^ is expected (as XOR or whatever). 01:43:34 http://postimg.org/image/xg91wqvfn/342429f8/ 01:44:13 But when using UTF-8 Unicode the proper character should be a proper backslash. UTF-16 should not be used to write a C code though, but some other character encodings are OK (such as ISO-8859-1, or CP437, or whatever) 01:44:59 Hmm... I'm not sure what printf("%c<&\n",a); does anyway 01:45:08 Hmm... I'm not sure what printf("%c<^\n",a); does anyway 01:45:12 Hmm... I'm not sure what printf("%c<%\n",a); does anyway 01:45:15 fuck 01:45:56 Probably it isn't valid printf format string, whoever made that picture may have done the mistake 01:47:03 It's from serial experiments lain... apart from the mistake he seems to be teaching how to use comparison operators or something 01:48:59 http://postimg.org/image/gc5maf6el/ 01:49:44 unfortunately the anime doesn't show the rest of the lesson because our heroine is about to go on a crazy acid trip 01:50:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GOTHIC CHICKEN). 01:54:56 zzo38: C does not use ASCII encoding. 01:55:39 Well, it should. 01:56:02 zzo38: C uses some encoding with the property that 0 through 9 are sequential, and a small set of characters exist. 01:56:45 Alphanumerics + !"#%&'()*+,-./:;<=>?[\]^_{|}~ 01:57:10 Does C specify the visual appearance of said characters? 01:57:26 And line break too I suppose? You missed line breaks. 01:57:41 orin: Not especially. 01:58:14 zzo38: Right, yes, it also requires the space character, horizontal tab, vertical tab, and form feed. 01:58:22 Then japanese computers simply have a \ that looks like ¥ instead of \ 01:59:08 Additionally, at run time alert, backspace, carriage return, and newline must exist. 01:59:29 orin: That is the implementation used on modern systems, yes. 01:59:48 \ simply has a locale-specific rendering, and nobody is that confused. 01:59:56 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:02:05 Yes, it is the C backslash character, and has the same code number as the ASCII backslash, I suppose, is how you can describe it, even if it is not a backslash. 02:02:49 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 02:02:56 IIRC, {|} [\] had locale-specific renderings in nordic countries, so people would use xÄiÅ instead of x[i]. 02:04:40 orin: How odd, the relevant legacy encoding is ISO 8859-1, no? 02:04:54 this was in the 7-bit age. 02:05:22 *Ugh*, right, ISO 646 got used too. 02:06:13 it's the reason why irc by default consider those characters different case variants of each others 02:06:19 *+s 02:06:26 *-s 02:07:00 it used the finnish variant 02:08:23 * oerjan checks if irssi will do that, nope 02:09:39 well the server refused my /nick f\`-`\f so at least it still does 02:10:43 -!- orin has changed nick to {|oren|]. 02:10:49 <{|oren|]> this works 02:11:09 [|oren|]: does this ping you 02:11:18 <{|oren|]> no 02:11:41 <{|oren|]> apparently they are allowed but no longer case-viariant 02:11:56 -!- {|oren|] has changed nick to \oren\. 02:12:22 \oren\: no, they are case-invariant in the server 02:12:38 for freenode, anyway 02:12:52 -!- \oren\ has changed nick to orin. 02:13:21 if you try to do /nick or /whois with a variant of them, it will be blocked/displayed 02:13:53 (if the nick is in use in some variation) 02:14:52 The british variant of iso646 had # as £ apparently 02:19:24 we had ISO 646 IRV for this reason... 02:31:54 -!- lmt has joined. 02:31:58 wow 02:31:59 big channel 02:32:24 `relcome lmt 02:32:25 ​lmt: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:32:34 very big channel 02:32:45 how did it get so big? 02:32:58 I got here via the wiki 02:33:46 also there are a ton of bots on this channel, so it inflates the nubmers a bit 02:33:50 ahh 02:33:53 that explains it 02:34:20 for example fungot HackEgo lambdabot idrisbot... 02:34:20 orin: fnord returns true if ( eq val 4) code" from a different angle ( make-rectangular 4 1) 2 3 02:36:24 -!- darwin has joined. 02:36:59 -!- darwin has left ("Leaving"). 02:37:26 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 02:38:36 the bots aren't more than about 10%... 02:38:46 hi oerjan 02:38:49 (hi l*m**t) 02:39:21 Why am I awake 02:39:51 oerjan: did you mean l*m*****t? 02:39:53 in a general sense, or right now? 02:40:00 nice pdf in the topic 02:40:03 hm we are indeed pretty big 02:40:07 lifthrasiir: nope hth 02:40:11 oh 106 02:40:32 I have no idea what is going on 02:40:43 Taneb: with what? 02:40:54 All the asterisks in lmt 02:41:02 try a whois 02:41:10 俺も何も分かんない 02:41:28 Ah 02:42:52 I'm also confused about why I am awake 02:43:32 Taneb: gramlins hth 02:43:36 Oh no 02:43:42 i wish i were cool enough to be in the list of people in the pdf :( 02:43:54 i don't know why my fingers insisted on spelling it with an a 02:44:37 lmt: it's mostly extracted from stuff in HackEgo. it may not go back far enough. 02:44:51 You can add stuff into HackEgo yourself though, instead of using PDF 02:45:38 oh well 02:45:40 later 02:45:41 -!- lmt has left. 02:46:07 `quote oren 02:46:09 1227) when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? apparently not santa claus Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1228) <{\[oren]|}> zzo38:it will cause problems by 02:46:24 -!- gjord has joined. 02:46:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:46:48 `quote oren 02:46:49 1227) when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? apparently not santa claus Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1228) <{\[oren]|}> zzo38:it will cause problems by 02:46:52 `quote orin 02:46:53 49) both of you, quit it with the f-bombs. kaelis: what's the matter? something censoring stuff you're interested in? \ 109) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's w 02:47:18 might add a < 02:47:26 `quote No output. 02:47:32 `quote 1227) when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? apparently not santa claus Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1238) is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... [...] Ohh.... so apparently 02:47:56 `quote taneb cows 02:47:57 No output. 02:48:00 `quote taneb * cows 02:48:01 No output. 02:48:09 `quote instant 02:48:09 `quote punched myself in the face 02:48:09 512) dangit I need someone who knows the answers to my problems instantly and is always around for me! I need.....an adult ;_; \ 1117) hmm… I guess the difference between me and most esolangers is that I don't instantly go and put it into a BF derivative and call it a day \ 1127) I designed a norn to drop dead 02:48:10 401) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. 02:48:14 it's regexps, Taneb 02:48:22 What? 02:48:27 Regexps? 02:48:28 the `quote syntax 02:48:29 All along? 02:48:43 the watchtower 02:49:37 oh god my compulsive word association is coming back 02:49:51 to the future 02:50:14 In my opinion the best program for online quizzes is Internet Quiz Engine; the other ones require you to use a GUI and are slow. Isn't it? 02:50:25 -!- augur has joined. 02:50:35 (read the topic's PDF for 3rd time) ...I think that was originally Starcraft mentioned in my entry. 02:50:53 `? lifthrasiir 02:50:54 lifthrasiir is shunned by the rest of his country for being no good at League of Legends. 02:51:05 `? oren 02:51:06 oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. 02:51:10 lol 02:51:15 `url wisdom/lifthrasiir 02:51:16 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/lifthrasiir 02:51:32 oh, historic. 02:51:51 I think you should remove that PDF to make room for other stuff; you can link information from HackEgo and so on. Of course the PDF and other information can also be found in the logs. Right now it is unnecessary but it might be useful in future to remove this link 02:51:53 hmm, my memory is that inaccurate then 02:52:07 time to switch the parts 02:52:14 `quote oren instant 02:52:16 No output. 02:52:27 `quote oren.*instant 02:52:27 1238) is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... [...] Ohh.... so apparently the jar says one scoop of powder per mug, I assumed an equal amount of powder and boiling water 02:52:45 lifthrasiir: it's been that way since 2012 at least 02:53:02 * lifthrasiir is busy switching his parts 02:53:31 that is, when HackEgo's repository history was wiped out last 02:53:36 week 02:54:36 Requiring to use a GUI is barbaric 02:54:47 reverted. it didn't work well. 02:55:30 did you start remembering the future instead 03:00:02 unless time is multidimensional, no. 03:01:32 `quote 1124 03:01:33 1124) kmc, I was trying to go to a sci-fi and fantasy society social, and I went to the wrong bar Wound up at my university's fetish society Didn't realise for an hour and a half 03:01:42 Someone apparently has now done the reverse of that 03:01:50 So the balance of the universe is restored 03:03:37 (they saw "Fantasy" in the society name and jumped to conclusions) 03:06:29 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 03:06:44 Taneb: ahahaha thats great :) 03:07:28 yay 03:38:35 -!- variable has joined. 04:00:15 Do you know how to hack Pokemon Pinball? There is a problem with the game, that the Mewtwo stage you can earn too many points. Also how to make Visual Boy Advance to allow opposite directions pushed together? 04:11:05 `quote 1127 04:11:11 1127) I designed a norn to drop dead instantly if he ever thought about eating elevators. He was stillborn. 04:11:18 What does dying norns have to do with punching myself in the face? 04:40:23 Sgeo, you creating those norns and me punching myself in the face both got in the quote file 04:45:28 Sgeo: why were you interested about me being on TDT? 04:52:03 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:53:09 coppro: I was just surprised at it, and surprised at the continued existed of TDT 04:56:38 TDT? isn't that the thing from lessworng 04:56:40 ? 04:57:13 timeless devteam, sounds about right 04:57:58 I thought he was on the Nethack dev team? 04:58:07 `? tdt 04:58:11 tdt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:58:19 #scow 04:58:20 `? coppro 04:58:21 coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. 04:58:48 `slashlearn tdt/That doesn't tdt. 04:58:59 Learned «tdt» 04:59:50 shachaf: I have heard TDT referring to "timeless decision theory" which is some philosophy where people in the future can make threats to people in the past by simulating them, or some nonsense likt that 05:00:18 oerjan: fancy 05:00:43 I wonder whether using // as a separator would be better for slashlearn 05:00:45 shachaf: hth 05:00:58 That way you could learn inside directories. 05:01:15 well, but then you'd need it to mkdirs too 05:01:24 I think it works to just one slash; I don't expect you need subdirectories (but, I don't know for sure). 05:01:39 You and me both, zzo38. 05:01:49 whoa, did you play the discworld computer game? 05:01:53 i don't think we should encourage subdirectories too much, although wisdom has some. 05:03:38 another xkcd map 05:07:45 In this context I think The DevTeam was what was meant 05:12:25 oerjan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvNLw7IHWmw#t=19m49s hth 05:24:43 Have you ever watched a television show called "To Be Announced"? 05:37:18 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:38:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Not that I recall). 06:13:29 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:29:10 Is Socrates a good golfer? 06:34:40 good golfers are immortal so no hth 06:55:01 -!- zadock has joined. 08:01:14 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:04:31 -!- zadock has joined. 08:09:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:21:13 so all immortal people are good golfers? 08:26:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:37:27 Socrates is everyman; in other words every man is Socrates. Therefore every man is mortal. 08:38:16 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 08:42:20 Except Hades. 08:43:28 -!- gjord has left. 08:52:22 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:52:44 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 09:01:32 -!- merdach has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:01:49 -!- merdach has joined. 09:01:54 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:03:58 are there two-dimensional languages besides rail that do have commands that need more than one character? 09:10:34 myname: there's some sort of cross between INTERCAL and Befunge, I think 09:10:41 that works like that 09:10:48 but it wasn't very interesting IMO 09:11:00 also, hmm 09:11:07 let me check my very first esolang 09:11:32 if I can even find where it's got ot 09:11:34 *got to 09:12:36 * The playfield is made out of blocks of commands and data. The blocks are^M 09:12:37 * 2x2 blocks arranged in a hex-grid pattern, like this:^M 09:12:52 -!- fractal has joined. 09:13:07 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 09:13:09 looks like I had enough foresight to document how the language actually worked 09:13:13 which is something of an improvement on Burn 09:13:41 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:14:06 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 09:14:08 -!- TodPunk has joined. 09:14:24 myname: http://nethack4.org/esolangs/el1.c 09:14:37 may as well "release" it, now I remembered it exists 09:15:10 the file's dated 2006, that seems plausible 09:16:22 now I'm trying to figure out what platform this was developed on 09:16:39 the Windows-style newlines and order of the platform defines give some clues 09:16:43 I suspect it may have been DOS 09:16:59 after a while, Windows (especially pre-Vista) becomes annoying enough that anything is better :-( 09:17:05 and I didn't have a lot of options back then 09:21:46 oh, it uses a hex grid 09:21:47 nice 09:21:56 that's a good reason for it to be 4 by 4 09:22:15 I think it's better than most people's first attempts 09:22:24 but it does rather miss the point it was aiming to illustrate 09:22:25 or perhaps not 09:23:54 so where will you release it? esolangs.org? 09:24:53 I just put the file online 09:25:24 also, it's very hard to search for files that originally came from a case-insensitive system, when your existing copy of them is on a case-sensitive system 09:25:37 because you have to guess the capitalization 09:26:17 can't you just search for all capitalizations? 09:27:14 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:29:43 that's what I did in the end 09:29:56 luckily "el1" only has two cased characters in it 09:30:03 or, well, I found the source on the second try 09:30:08 my first try found only the executables 09:30:43 I guess I could try to get them running in wineconsole, but figuring out how an esolang works based on an /implementation executable/ is pretty hard unless it gives good error messages 09:33:15 ais523: but it has comments explaining how it works, 09:33:20 partly 09:33:32 yep, that should make things much easier 09:33:32 and you can guess the rest from the source and testing 09:33:45 I actually think it's a complete spec, just one written in an awkward style 09:33:47 and I don't see why you need a wineconsole for it 09:33:52 (again, which is believeable for my first esolang) 09:33:53 oh, I don't 09:34:01 it was a hypothetical about "what if all I had was the executable" 09:34:05 oh, I see 09:35:06 well, it's by an old compiler which doesn't optimize too much so disassembling and debugging would help a bit more than these days, but yeah. 09:38:38 2006 isn't /that/ old, but the compiler itself may well be much older 09:38:55 it'd either be a version of DJGPP which was current at the time (i.e. basically gcc-circa-2006 levels of optimization) 09:39:01 or Borland C++ 4, which was ancient even at the time 10:02:42 -!- bb010g has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:05:09 * ais523 reads a US court case, and is amused to see it discussing which state's laws to use to determine which state's laws to use 10:05:37 (the court case used New York state laws to determine that California state laws were those that applied to the rest of the case) 10:07:25 `complain I don't know what to complain about. 10:07:28 Complaint filed. Thank you. 10:12:27 `complain about frivolous use of the complain command. 10:12:28 Complaint filed. Thank you. 10:12:52 -!- bb010g has joined. 10:19:11 I'd like to see a human vs. compiler asm-writing contest 10:19:14 for a range of processors 10:19:39 I think on most embedded systems, the human would win easily, because IME the compilers suck there 10:27:13 -!- boily has joined. 10:35:42 ais523: the problem is that computers only have a source code, have to stick to that literally even when the programmer wrote sucky source code, whereas humans know the purpose and hopefully even test input data to know what to optimize for 10:35:59 (sometimes the computers have test input data too, and use profile-based optimization, but that's rare) 10:36:13 right 10:36:18 I think you should allow PGO here 10:36:45 although, the benefit from it isn't usually that large, it's mostly just used to know how likely a branch is to be taken 10:45:36 -!- AndoDaan has left ("Leave channel"). 10:46:11 The human usually knows a great deal of non-aliasing and frequent special case and similar information that the computer can't divine from the code. 10:46:38 Also expected array sizes or loop counts. 10:55:01 I'm against using life expectantcy as a "quality of life"-measurement. 10:56:29 there's also the risk that one set or other of the code is compiled flat-out wrong 10:56:36 most likely the human-generated version 10:57:32 ais523: yes, people produce a lot of flawed benchmark without even testing that the snippets they ran really compute the solution at all 10:57:45 that's why I never believe timing benchmarks unless I produce them myself 10:57:57 this is why alioth claims it shouldn't be taken seriously 10:58:18 because there's too much skill influence from the human coders 10:58:34 like, it'd be a struggle doing some of that stuff in INTERCAL at all, let alone via the fastest possible algorithm 10:59:06 I'd just stick to human versus human. 10:59:16 http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ for people who don't know about it 10:59:50 (They can use computers, which are just tools, totally not secretly our masters.) 11:12:40 fungot, do you believe benchmarks? 11:12:40 b_jonas: it has been run and debugged now i am depressed... there's been good and bad. 11:13:54 fungot: Debugging benchmarks sounds like fun. 11:13:54 mroman: when developing full applications it is fnord illustrative of how heavy on style and light on substance java really is an amazing hack that abuses the fnord interleaving ( like in pascal :) 11:15:15 that's abso-fnording-lutely amazing. 11:15:28 and it's fnord funny. 11:16:05 fnord (adj): We don't for the fnord of it know what fnord means. 11:16:09 also adv. 11:16:11 also n. 11:16:12 and v. 11:16:34 Life is fnord after all. 11:17:04 -!- choochter has joined. 11:28:03 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INESSIVE CHICKEN). 11:32:10 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 11:43:12 ais523: I would expect custom compiler backends to enter such a contest if people took it seriously 11:43:33 it'd be hard to get enough people to take such a contest seriously 11:43:56 Also humans would take hours to write assembly code by hand, imagine if you gave superopt ten hours 11:44:01 (RIP superopt) 11:44:44 did superopt just try every combination of optimization settings to see which worked best? 11:45:13 basically, I'm not affraid to lose my work to this kind of stuff. 11:45:56 http://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Superopt 11:46:25 Well, in reality superopt wouldn't get very far in ten hours 11:47:31 You could probably make a compiler backend out of smt solvers or static analysers, some of them can guess loop invariants now 11:47:40 wow, that page is really short on info and has a couple of external links that look like they go to the info 11:47:44 but they just redirect back to itself 11:48:56 Given that it was “released on 3 June 1995” the fact that it still has a webpage is quite impressive 11:50:26 OK, I'm downloading the source to get information about how it works 11:50:58 Most likely it only works for small pure functions 11:51:39 and optimises them for processors that you don't have any more 11:52:17 Jafet: I keep all my old processors around just in case! 11:52:46 wow this is smaller than I expected 11:52:57 $ ls | wc -l 11:52:59 13 11:53:00 all are regular files 11:53:08 since when does a software project only have 13 files in it? 11:53:26 $ wc -l *.{c,h} ? 11:53:34 ais523: try ls -a instead of ls :-) 11:53:48 5873 total 11:53:52 b_jonas: but .. isn't part of the project 11:53:56 that's quite small, yeso 11:53:56 arguably . is 11:53:58 yes* 11:54:24 FireFly: a large part of it seems to be written in a DSL, though 11:54:27 with the C file being the DSL interp 11:54:32 ais523: um, ok, then ls -A 11:54:36 that comes to another 5518 lines 11:56:24 I'm sure you kept your old i686 in working condition for this very moment 11:56:44 processor probably works 11:56:49 not sure about the rest of the machine though 11:56:52 Although it should be mentioned that present-day compilers still compile for i686, for some reasons 11:57:11 actually I think one of the machines still has a 16-bit processor 11:57:23 I booted it up like 5 or 6 years ago to see if it was still working 11:57:34 the hard drive was unreadable but it could boot and run from floppy disk 11:59:02 superopt seems quite specific in its use 11:59:13 I guess you could try to get it to come up with a fast inverse square root or the like 11:59:36 but unless the FPU has an instruction specifically for doing that (in which case the search will be fast), it'd be unlikely to find it in a reasonable length of time 11:59:40 I doubt it would find the right 32-bit constant in time 12:00:08 there's actually a range of constants that work 12:00:19 the one in the infamous code isn't right in the middle of it, either 12:00:30 so it might just have been a trial and error thing 12:01:27 ooh, idea 12:01:30 superopt rainbow tables 12:01:40 you're already running all possible program fragments already, right? 12:01:59 so you may as well try some standard inputs on all of them, produce a corresponding hash code 12:02:15 then when you want to implement a new function optimally, just look it up in the table and see if the impl is correct 12:02:51 Unfortunately for us humans, we love to make short passwords and long programs. 12:03:26 maybe you could make that into a distributed "optimal functions for everything" search 12:04:19 ais523: the problem with that is often you want to implement a partial function 12:04:28 and you can't just table that 12:04:58 not so easily as complete functions 12:05:14 You can use wildcards for the inputs outside the domain, but searching with wildcards is slower. 12:08:48 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:11:04 There should be password schemes/hash functions with error correction codes. 12:20:36 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:24:44 -!- izabera has joined. 12:39:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:56:42 -!- magician has joined. 12:59:12 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:00:41 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 13:00:53 -!- magician has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:16:12 -!- variable has joined. 13:20:00 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:29:55 -!- magician has joined. 13:31:42 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:31:43 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780. 13:37:15 12:49:23 You could probably make a compiler backend out of smt solvers or static analysers, some of them can guess loop invariants now 13:37:22 regehr is doing stuff like this 13:37:28 superoptimisation with an SMT solver 13:38:38 elliott: this reminds me of the TASvideos Polarium Automated Solver War 13:38:48 which someone eventually won using a SAT solver 13:39:53 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1109 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1146 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1192 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1219 13:43:21 hmm, maybe an INTERCAL superoptimizer would be interesting 13:43:43 (fun fact: superoptimisation was pioneered by alexia massalin, who also wrote the famous Synthesis OS thesis) 13:44:25 that said, violin's using a satisfaction solver already (I forget the technical term for the class of satisfaction solver that gprolog has) 13:44:55 violin? 13:46:18 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:46:27 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 13:47:00 elliott: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.lang.intercal/fcxkgc7Pomk 13:47:11 (much as I hate linking Google Groups, but it isn't archived elsewhere) 13:47:41 "Creating an extra thread to do the addition is somewhat inefficient" 13:47:54 ais523: btw, you're going to end up secretly controling nethack development through coppro, right 13:48:19 elliott: there's more involved here than is public 13:48:52 let's just say, if I wanted to secretly control NetHack development, even without coppro I'd probably find a way 13:49:48 heh, Google interprets the filename "violin.pl" as an URL 13:49:51 I'm scared to visit it 13:54:36 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:54:53 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:55:35 -!- Melvar has joined. 13:56:09 -!- idris-bot has joined. 14:01:02 "This syntax was designed to look reassuringly familiar, yet be surprisingly unintuitive in practice (especially when writing it by hand)." 14:01:07 I need to read my old esolang stuff more oftne 14:01:13 *more often 14:12:12 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:43:07 Help I am binging Girl Genius again 14:43:17 And I think I have just spotted an Animal Crossing reference 14:43:48 http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090121 Major Resetti - Mr Resetti is a mole in Animal Crossing 14:47:03 Taneb: Stop it. 14:47:09 No 14:47:16 Press the button with a square on it 14:47:20 a filled square that is. 14:47:32 or press the one with two vertical lines 14:47:35 that'll work as well. 14:47:54 Just don't fnording press the button with a triangle on it. 14:48:24 It's fnord easy. 14:54:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:06:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:09:37 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:10:16 -!- dianne has joined. 15:32:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:59:58 mroman: the button with a square on it, that's "maximize" in the window bar, right? 16:00:33 that's a filled square, though, not an unfilled square 16:16:01 -!- constant has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 16:21:05 -!- FreeFull has quit. 16:45:58 ais523: what were you quoting above? 16:46:20 quintopia: violin documentation 16:46:31 which is in the sharball in the post I linked above 16:46:43 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.lang.intercal/fcxkgc7Pomk to save you the trouble of scrolling back 16:56:31 why is it called violin 16:56:47 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:58:45 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:00:49 because the file that implements assignments in C-INTERCAL is called fiddle.c 17:02:39 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:03:57 presumably because it fiddles with things 17:04:40 it does bit-twiddling 17:04:55 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:10:06 How are you going to get a bit slimmer? It's barely possible in your case. 17:10:14 first time I've seen spambots actually throw insults around 17:11:31 Uh, isn't that a compliment? 17:11:52 I'm not sure at this point 17:12:03 Or maybe a expression of concern for your anorexia? 17:12:37 I interpreted it as "there's no /way/ someone like you is ever going to slim without the product we're selling", with a sidecurrent of "and you really need it" 17:12:59 Ah. From a spambot, that would make sense. 17:13:00 . o O ( Pro tip: Eating spam is not a healthy diet. ) 17:13:12 Spam is, however, delicious 17:13:20 If you say so. 17:13:56 especially spam sandwiches with hot saucece 17:16:07 there is a store he called spamacyt 17:16:24 i haven't been inside, but i think it's just an unfortunate portmanteau of "spa" and "pharmacy" 17:16:58 (there's no t on the end...that was a typo) 17:37:24 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:45:17 ais523: is that reply to the violin thread spam 17:45:24 or just incomprehensible 17:45:47 elliott: sort-of, I think it's from someone who wants to contribute to alt.lang.intercal but doesn't know enough INTERCAL to make any sense of the content 17:45:56 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.lang.intercal/aTAikUJ2yDc nice replying to 2002 posts in 2014 17:47:37 -!- zadock has joined. 17:48:14 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 17:58:07 ais523: The company that runs blogspot web site isn't widely known in Europe. For example I don't know if it is from Bermuda or from Finland; latter due to usage of double vowels in its name (Hei Hyvää päivää! Mitä kuuluu?). But I know that it knows your fetishes better than other companies and even better than you do. It's hidden under /settings/ads URL and then Interests, in case you don't know. 17:58:15 is this a joke, or... 17:58:22 i guess the joke is pretending google is a finnish company?? 17:58:50 the third sentence makes me think it's a joke 17:59:00 the rest can be interpreted as "it's hard to discover which company it is that runs blogspot" 17:59:15 well the double vowel thing only makes sense with "google" 17:59:25 because blogspot and blogger do not have two adjacent vowels in them 17:59:32 in that case it probably is a joke, but not a very good one 17:59:35 yes :p 18:04:20 -!- variable has joined. 18:34:45 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:40:44 what the... the Hurr Durr archives frontpage at https://www.hurrdurr.org/ doesn't list 4.0-rc7 18:43:21 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:01:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:04:48 -!- vodkode has joined. 19:10:43 \o/ 19:10:43 | 19:10:43 >\ 19:13:42 -!- variable has joined. 19:21:55 -!- mitchs has quit (Quit: mitchs). 19:27:37 -!- mitchs has joined. 19:40:03 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:01:23 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 20:05:56 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:12:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:12:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:34:38 http://postimg.org/image/jg0irvjzb/ 20:39:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:52:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:06:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:07:35 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:24:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:33:31 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:35:43 -!- izabera has joined. 21:35:47 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:40:11 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:41:44 -!- izabera has joined. 21:43:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:44:17 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FreedomSka * New user account 21:53:31 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:58:45 -!- izabera has joined. 21:58:49 -!- boily has joined. 21:59:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:00:46 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42340&oldid=42332 * FreedomSka * (+18) 22:01:07 [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42341 * FreedomSka * (+706) Created page with "'''EncryptFuck''' is a encrypted version of a similar brainfuck code created by [[User:FreedomSka|FreedomSka]] This is a comment
 : COMMENTS 
The syntax it's like ..." 22:03:06 Programming is hard 22:03:21 [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42342&oldid=42341 * FreedomSka * (+28) 22:03:35 You can be all like "This bad default is breaking stuff and fixing it won't hurt user code" and some idiot user's code does break 22:05:01 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:05:05 i think this applies to life in general. 22:05:21 [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42343&oldid=42342 * FreedomSka * (+24) 22:06:22 [wiki] [[User:FreedomSka]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42344 * FreedomSka * (+53) Created page with "[[https://esolangs.org/wiki/EncryptFuck|EncryptFuck]]" 22:07:00 Sgello. hellørjan. 22:07:01 [wiki] [[User:FreedomSka]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42345&oldid=42344 * FreedomSka * (-38) 22:07:06 on average, we're all idiot user code. 22:11:39 bonjoily 22:21:48 -!- lleu has joined. 22:21:48 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 22:21:48 -!- lleu has joined. 22:28:47 `relcome lleu 22:28:48 ​lleu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:29:28 thanks boily 22:29:30 [wiki] [[Meq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42346&oldid=42337 * 194.168.93.97 * (+90) 22:30:24 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * TheMeq * uploaded "[[File:Meq-ide-screenshot.png]]": Screenshot of the Meq IDE 22:31:03 [wiki] [[Meq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42348&oldid=42346 * TheMeq * (-14) 22:57:43 [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42349&oldid=42343 * 87.11.7.181 * (+50) 22:58:55 [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42350&oldid=42349 * 87.11.7.181 * (+8) 23:09:53 -!- adu has joined. 23:27:20 Factorio is a pretty fun hardware description language. 23:27:44 Someone should make a page for it on Esolang. 23:27:52 Focusing, obviously, on how to compute with it. 23:37:03 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:38:09 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:48:53 [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42351&oldid=42350 * 87.11.7.181 * (+224) 2015-04-09: 00:04:31 I appear to have burned a fingertip on my teapot. ow. 00:10:53 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:10:57 a bit late now, but did you cool it in running water 00:11:43 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:11:55 no. 00:12:01 (i think it's supposed to be slightly less than lukewarm, my memory is a bit vague.) 00:12:07 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:12:21 int-e: int-ello. LAMBDABOOOOOOOOOOT! 00:12:23 too bad, that's supposed to help reduce damage. 00:13:05 hm it doesn't seem to have reonlogged 00:13:16 -!- v4s has joined. 00:13:26 if it blisters, I'll cut away some aloe vera and bandage it around my finger. 00:13:36 (now, where to find that plant by this time of the year...) 00:13:38 @metar CYUL 00:13:40 -!- erdic has joined. 00:13:46 right, no lambdie. 00:13:59 maybe it hasn't noticed it pinged out yet 00:14:06 * boily repeatedly prods int-e with his mapole 00:14:11 ah it's rejoining 00:14:17 NO NEED TO PANICK 00:14:27 I PANIC OKAY HTH 00:14:42 also, it's always fun to mapole people ^^ 00:15:37 i suspect int-e may be sleeping at this time 00:17:07 it does take it's sweet time rejoining 00:17:10 *its 00:17:38 i assume it's to avoid getting flooded out 00:17:46 -!- lambdabot has joined. 00:17:49 i wonder if there's a way to speed that up 00:18:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3otBjVZzT0 00:20:46 @metar CYUL 00:20:46 CYUL 090000Z 05008KT 1 1/2SM -SN BKN006 OVC018 01/M01 A3036 RMK SF7SC1 SLP283 00:21:01 snow. it's fungotting snowing. an April 8. 00:21:01 boily: sarahbot later tell foxfire, why doesn't anything ever work right? or was that 92, we all know 00:21:59 fungot: IIRC, I was in Ontario during winter 92. (or were we still on Québec City's South Shore?) 00:21:59 boily: what i'm trying without success. i was thinking glass might have moved there. 00:23:03 were you in ontario in autumn 95 00:23:35 i was 00:24:12 were you in waterloo ... 00:25:41 no, we were in QC. the Ontario period was spent in Hamilton. 00:25:42 darn 00:25:50 another incredible coincidence narrowly averted. 00:25:50 isn't it coppro who's a Waterlooian? 00:26:03 sure, but i think he got there after that? 00:26:23 perhaps. the only #esöterist I met IRL was lexande. 00:27:24 i don't know that i've met any, but then i've not left norway since i came here. 00:27:47 I won 5 prizes, expiring at the end of the month: "A .ME for free" "A .EU for free" "A .WEBSITE for free" "A .XYZ for free", "A .INFO for €1" 00:27:48 i was postdoc at UofW 00:27:48 boily: Waterloovian 00:28:05 it's like whovian 00:28:26 shachaf: .xyz? 00:28:39 coppro: tdh. 00:28:43 What should I do with them? 00:29:13 tromp: did you happen to have an office next to dave wagner twh 00:29:38 coppro: do you happen to play prismata twh 00:29:45 tdh? 00:29:52 no, i was a few offices from my supervisor Ming Li 00:30:06 mingling with ming li, check 00:30:07 oerjan: my office is about fifty meters from his 00:30:11 (dave wagner) 00:30:37 coppro: well i did point you towards him didn't i 00:30:43 on an earlier occasion 00:30:56 oerjan: I don't think so 00:31:19 anyway, he's one of the few ex-agorans i've met 00:31:21 `? tdh 00:31:28 tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth. 00:32:05 shachaf: I don't play prismata. But I know egrant. 00:32:14 shachaf: clearly you should register SHA.ME hth 00:33:19 oerjan: it's already registered hth 00:33:36 pom.me? 00:34:19 darn 00:34:28 LA.ME 00:35:10 lovelove.me? 00:35:10 tromp: who are you now? 00:35:20 I expect that dictionary words are all taken anyway. 00:35:36 shachaf: KIK.ME hth 00:36:08 i am still tromp now 00:36:25 * oerjan so helpful 00:37:31 tromp: ok. I just figured you weren't a person when you were a postdoc at UW because you were a postdoc at UW. 00:37:56 shachaf: IJOINEDACONTESTANDALLIGOTWASTHISLOUSY.WEBSITE 00:38:02 shachaf: you should register amphetami.ne 00:38:18 it costs $100 to update your DNS records 00:38:21 value 00:38:27 i think enough amphetas have been mined already hth 00:39:12 I should go back to ignoring every message ending with hth 00:39:30 did you ever do so 00:40:20 hth let's see if copprop can hear me hth 00:40:31 oerjan: yes 00:40:33 it was bliss 00:40:36 oerjan is rather hthso.me 00:40:37 hm. well. maybe if I didn't completely typo his name... 00:40:47 hth coppro hth 00:41:49 copprop highlights me 00:41:51 that's probably a bug 00:42:02 /chaf\b/ hilights me 00:44:06 does שאחאף highlights you? 00:44:12 no 00:44:25 (meh. weechat doesn't rtl...) 00:44:26 boily: no, and it has too many letters anyway 00:44:38 boily: I think that's your terminal's job. 00:44:45 שחף would be the correct spelling. 00:45:26 I use Ubuntu's default terminal thingy. let's see if there's some setting in there... 00:45:44 oh. I should've guessed myself the complete absence of written vowels... 00:57:33 tht's hbrw fr y 00:57:54 homebrew for you? 00:58:07 yes, please 01:00:30 [wiki] [[Talk:EncryptFuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42352 * SuperJedi224 * (+251) Created page with "Unless non-labeled loops are assumed to be equivalent to Brainf*** loops, I have reason to believe that this language, as it stands, is not turing complete. ~~~~" 01:15:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:25:36 i guess the joke is pretending google is a finnish company?? <-- it's even worse because g is not a native sound in finnish 01:39:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WAVERING CHICKEN). 02:06:06 Which metal comes from hematite? 02:06:23 Iron. 02:06:26 cool 02:06:40 "heme" == "iron" FWIW. 02:06:45 (hence "hemaglobin") 02:07:02 That's good because that means I can make iron weapons 02:07:31 *o 02:09:17 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 02:10:11 Also I can make magma pumps from iron 02:39:54 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:50:41 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:50:41 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 02:54:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:57:09 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:58:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:58:30 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:54:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:54:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:07:19 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:07:34 -!- mhi^ has joined. 04:31:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:33:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:02:26 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:30:02 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:36:02 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:42:15 -!- adu has joined. 05:48:31 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:58:52 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:17:09 God damn it, my water pumping system accidentally a whole lake 06:17:43 ENOVERB 06:20:08 VERB='created' 06:25:53 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:33:22 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 06:56:22 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 06:56:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:00:56 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:05:17 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:09:37 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 07:25:09 > 1 07:25:10 1 07:26:21 Oh it did come back by itself anyway. 07:29:31 premature panic 07:32:02 there was one failed reconnection attempt 07:32:04 * int-e shrugs 07:32:46 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 07:33:39 And the ISP's twitter feed says "Investigating network blip in NL" 07:33:48 So perhaps that was it. 07:36:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Zzleep). 07:42:56 * Taneb hello 07:43:13 orin, are you playing Dwarf Fortress 07:55:31 yah 07:57:10 well I was. And then I flooded my entire fortress and the entire map, killing virtually every living thing on it 07:57:30 and this time it was an accident 08:04:08 your water pumping system accidentally fnorded a whole lake? 08:06:24 Oh I do that on occasion 08:11:34 . o O ( Welcome to the Venetian Underground ) 08:36:31 my keyboard arrived yesterday 08:36:35 the musical instrument keyboard 08:36:41 not the typing device keyboard 08:42:24 good 08:43:47 yeah 08:43:56 now I can annoy everybody even better in the whole house! 08:44:15 I can annoy them with my Flugelhorn, my flute, my euhponium, my keyboard 08:44:18 and soon with my trombone! 08:45:18 I'm fnord annoying. 08:56:59 hehe 09:05:12 `help 09:05:12 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 09:05:36 `? A 09:05:37 A is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 09:07:33 `? Å 09:07:34 ​Å? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:07:36 tdnh 09:07:53 -!- jameseb has joined. 09:08:12 `learn Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 09:08:21 Learned 'Å': Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 09:08:42 `? BBC 09:08:45 BBC? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:34:29 Since when are humans vicious killers??!? 09:34:58 This time my fort was wiped out by a human pikeman 09:38:58 Did you attack them first 09:39:12 humans are alpha predators, of course vicious killers 09:39:22 apex* 09:43:52 Maybe on this world, humans and dwarves areatwar? they aren't sendng caravans 09:49:22 Shift-C? 09:55:24 shows only the dwarven civ 09:58:40 Hmm 10:02:16 I'd say humans began becoming vicious killers since forever 10:02:57 Afterall such violence is deeply engrained in most humans. 10:15:16 is violence deeply ingrained in fungot? 10:15:16 b_jonas: in order for the implementation. 10:15:24 fungot: do you mean temptation? 10:15:24 b_jonas: true enough. :) sorry, no connotation intended to 10:15:29 :) 10:28:05 -!- boily has joined. 10:28:19 fungot: So would you say violence is a necessary trait? 10:28:19 fizzie: i think that's a bourne fnord. :p 10:29:53 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:34:47 "necessary trait"? 10:34:52 It's not necessary, but it's human. 10:35:11 why else would there be bar fights 10:35:19 or wars 10:35:59 Most humans have the capability to get angry/mad 10:36:24 unless you have certain schizoid traits 10:36:48 then you will most likely never get angry 10:40:47 Evolutionarily a retaliation response is probably selected for 10:41:14 tit for tat wins repeated prisoners dilemma and all that 10:46:15 fungot: would you say winter is necessary too? 10:46:15 boily: place of interest sign links to, tusho to fnord, like scheme48, but newline is an operator or definition... and the person 10:47:00 fungot, is winter coming? 10:47:00 b_jonas: the 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 3 bottles of beer. 10:47:08 yeah, that's the quick version 10:47:29 was that on the twelfth day of Christmas, fungot? 10:47:30 b_jonas: but war is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strenght bush is president". that's non-sensical, technical and zone contact. yours, egal. inmates are mostly people who've were never taught it fnord never saw the need for a working microcode or scheme system to program games for that. 10:48:01 war is peace. freedom is slavery. ketchup is a vegetable. 11:00:19 -!- APic has joined. 11:18:49 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 11:19:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:21:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ALMOST CHICKEN). 11:28:16 I've heard of technical and zone contacts, but it's good to see DNS registrars also include the non-sensical contact too. 11:29:28 Is that where I report fungot? 11:29:28 FireFly: error in quotient: java.lang.nullpointerexception 11:30:05 fungot: You're not even written in Java, stop pretending you are. 11:30:05 fizzie: umm......do you like the climate in atlanta? how do you include fnord?) is that there are about two or three lines long, making use of your talents. to be honest i just saw 11:32:01 fungot: I think you're a bit lost, but as far as I know fizzie didn't move to Atlanta 11:32:01 FireFly: sweet. only need to trigger ( y) y), ( if...), i believe). 11:33:29 yeah fungot. Stop acting cool like java. 11:33:29 mroman: also ear infection and scalp would (!) to someone or something has subjected you to lambda calculus) 11:38:52 Lambda calculus is the leading cause of ear infections these days. 11:43:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:43:34 fizzie: better than semicolon cancer 11:55:48 -!- heroux has joined. 12:24:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:26:46 fungot, do you live in the fsouth or the fnorth? 12:26:47 b_jonas: esp. if the code's well-written maintainable, it's probably not very necessary. i think next weekend i will make it more efficient. 12:33:51 I think I should be slightly worried about fungot redesigning itself to be "more efficient". 12:33:51 fizzie: no just not scheme. my knowledge of perl is null? true for any lists l? 12:35:05 I don't think he's redesigning himself 12:35:10 just some other code he wrote 12:36:36 what language is fungot written in? 12:36:36 jameseb: i much prefer one-implementation languages. if they're interpreted as comments the program should use append! if its result *doesn't* depend on the base language 12:37:35 ^source 12:37:35 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 12:37:41 jameseb, ^ 12:38:16 is that befunge? 12:39:34 Yes 12:41:35 that's quite a complex program to use a language like befunge for 12:49:13 It's nothing compared to the 100MLOC Befunge codebases all major corporations have. 12:50:27 -!- hjulle has joined. 12:52:31 fizzie has been secretly replacing code inside big company software with befunge code. 12:52:48 It's called job security. 12:53:01 also 12:53:03 TIOBE 12:53:13 how can we hack TIOBE to display befunge on the top 12:54:07 you measure befunge in _lines_ 12:54:26 code is measured in lines. 12:55:15 but befunge is a two-dimensional language 12:55:24 Maybe they can be diagonal lines. 12:56:29 well 12:56:40 you can always write a paper about how to measure code in 2D languages 12:56:51 characters? 12:56:54 density? 12:56:54 fungot, how do you measure code in two-dimensional languages? 12:56:54 b_jonas: 150 euros. :p)) t? 12:56:55 area? 12:57:13 Apparently you measure it in money. 12:57:14 characters without nops of course 12:58:06 how powerful is unefunge? 12:58:40 can it simulate anything with only quasi-linear slowdown? 12:59:10 it has random access get and put instructions so I presume it can, but the control options are a bit limited 12:59:14 flow control I mean 12:59:35 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:14:35 They're just awkward, not limited. 13:14:49 The "set delta to arbitrary value" instruction is pretty much a relative jump. 13:15:05 (As long as you have a landing > or < in place.) 13:15:18 (And the awkwardness is just in encoding the numbers.) 13:15:45 -!- DrVitusWerdegast has joined. 13:15:58 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:17:14 (Well, okay, for actually writing code manually it's also awkward to keep updating the numbers all the time, but that's just a small matter of preprocessing from gotos-with-labels to encoded-numbers-with-'x'.) 13:22:04 there's a set delta to arbitrary value instruction? is that normal or an extension? 13:24:57 oh, the x instruction in befunge98 13:25:15 right, together with g and p and arithmetic, that should work 13:31:23 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 13:34:46 For whatever reason some people on codegolf.stackexchange.com seem to count befunge-98 source code as width×height 13:35:01 -!- DrVitusWerdegast has left. 13:35:07 b_jonas, mroman: character count seems to be the most fair way to compare languages 13:35:34 well, or some kind of atomic "syntactic elements count" where identifiers and keywords are treated as one unit 13:41:59 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:42:38 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:10:44 A: If a language meets the criteria of being listed (i.e. it is Turing complete and has an own Wikipedia entry that indicates that it concerns a programming language) and it is sufficiently popular (more than 25,000 hits for +" programming" for Google), then please write an e-mail to tpci@tiobe.com. 14:11:03 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:11:14 only 1.7k for +"befunge programming" 14:11:31 we need 25k guys! 14:16:11 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:18:05 Even "brainfuck programming" only has 3.5k. 14:18:12 So that's quite a high target. 14:20:46 "lambda calculus programming" is also stuck at 3.7k 14:22:37 even well established languages like PostScript don't meet the threshold 14:25:14 [wiki] [[EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42353&oldid=42351 * FreedomSka * (+12) 14:28:49 Heresy gets 267k. 14:29:00 But that's just because programmers like to through the word around alot. ;) 14:29:10 Not in my Google. 14:29:16 "About 30 results". 14:29:36 You're supposed to include the quotes (and the +, which I believe is redundant with the quotes). 14:29:46 Ahh. 14:30:44 forth is 3.5k short of the target... 14:30:56 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:31:38 yeah it's quite a high target 14:31:43 bot with enough spam bots we could do it 14:31:46 *but 14:32:00 Every problem can be solved by using more spam bots. 14:32:13 ok 14:32:26 K is only 1.6k short! 14:33:31 but L made it, with 3.3k to spare:) 14:33:56 (i didnt even know there was an L programming language) 14:34:39 tromp: there's at least one programming language for every ascii letter by now 14:35:33 not that have a wikipedia entry for it 14:36:03 e.g. +"n programming" has 25.2k hits, but only because there's an ALGOL N 14:37:18 smalltalk barely makes it with 26k 14:38:29 burlesque has 416 14:38:43 and most of those aren't about the programming language :p 14:39:08 blc has 62, none of them about blc :( 14:39:45 J_Arcane: Now you need a WP article on it. 14:39:58 mroman: :D 14:40:15 I'm pretty sure it'd get deleted, but it might coast a while without anyone noticing. :D 14:41:52 Let's see whose fake programming language WP article lasts the longest. 14:42:42 it'll probably last longer on esperanto wiki or the like 14:43:03 I need a clever or stylish logo. I could probably coast on that cred for a little while. ;) 14:44:39 and a start-up using your language 14:44:44 possibly a fake start-up 14:45:53 Cult.io 14:46:51 It would also help if the bible has something good to say about your language. 14:48:54 s/the bible/a bible 14:50:31 I was gonna say, sadly the Bible doesn't use the word 'heresy'. It was I think a Catholic invention. 14:53:10 Catholics have bibles too? 14:53:17 XD 14:53:24 That's not an actual question btw. 14:53:42 fungot, do you have a bible too? 14:53:42 b_jonas: well anyway i already had an instance running. it's written for humans, and the person can switch to an s&m collector! 14:53:49 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:54:45 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+24:14&version=AKJV 14:54:49 ^- this contains heresy 14:54:50 -!- heroux has joined. 15:11:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:23:32 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:25:11 +"GolfScript programming" only gets 260 results 15:25:19 thought that'd be more 15:27:45 -!- yorick has joined. 15:27:45 -!- yorick has quit (Changing host). 15:27:45 -!- yorick has joined. 15:38:02 fungot: authentificate yourself 15:38:03 b_jonas: sleepitime is soon. already walking from the bus stop. ' gone' now. soviet russia is dead and it will print a 1. 15:46:37 fungot: s&m collector? 15:46:37 FireFly: how can i overcome this sleep deprivation feeling. i've been thinking about a graphical object inspector, which is all the more 15:47:35 FireFly: a sweep and mark garbage collector obviously 15:48:42 ah 15:50:04 Must be easy, being a bot. Feeling sleep-deprived? Just fire up a graphical object inspector and mutate some state. 15:51:54 fungot: how's life as a bot? 15:51:54 FireFly: fnord/ code/ fshift.scm. perhaps i won't really be encountering new ones all the time, btw) 16:18:22 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:53:31 -!- TieSleep has changed nick to TieSoul. 17:00:09 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:44:06 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:51:22 [wiki] [[Swap]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42354&oldid=17651 * 128.84.125.33 * (-27) rm category unimplemented 18:06:26 -!- TieSoul has joined. 18:15:15 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:28:13 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 18:28:41 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:28:42 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 18:29:16 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:29:32 -!- HackEgo has joined. 18:49:08 -!- shikhin has changed nick to literallyitler. 18:49:26 -!- literallyitler has changed nick to shikhin. 18:49:47 -!- izabera has changed nick to rodabrak. 18:50:45 -!- rodabrak has changed nick to krabador. 18:51:00 -!- krabador has changed nick to izabera. 18:55:10 -!- hjulle has joined. 18:59:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:32:03 :( 19:39:44 -!- dianne has joined. 19:40:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:43:09 -!- variable has joined. 19:43:59 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:00:02 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:03:45 Has anyone used libxml++ (the C++ bindings for the gnome libxml2 library)? How usable is it, for parsing XML and HTML? 20:04:08 Or what are other good libraries with a C++ or C interface for parsing XML and HTML? 20:04:12 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 20:04:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:07:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:35:32 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:37:37 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 20:38:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:38:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:42:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:47:49 ais523: have you ever used libxml++ (the C++ binding for gnome libxml2) or some other library with a C++ or C interface for parsing XML and HTML? I'd like to know which library to look at. 20:48:20 b_jonas: I haven't, the closest I've come is building something that depends on xerxes 20:50:08 what xerxes? 20:50:45 I think it's an XML library 20:51:45 @google xerxes xml 20:51:46 https://xerces.apache.org/xerces-c/ 20:52:16 ah, xerces 20:56:24 ah 20:57:23 thanks 21:02:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:13:20 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:15:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:43 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:25:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:39:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:42:42 -!- G33kDude has joined. 21:45:22 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:45:22 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 21:47:49 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 21:49:55 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:55:52 whoa, another Mill talk next week in London 21:56:09 -!- boily has joined. 21:57:48 fizzie: you should go hth 22:01:30 Why is London like so far away 22:02:24 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 22:02:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:03:46 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42355&oldid=42213 * Chris Pressey * (+1069) Describe the comp.class and (intentional) shortcomings (yes Cliff, it *is* arguably rather rude.) 22:07:47 London is very far away for almost all points on the Earth spheroid. 22:08:05 I suppose I am relatively close to London 22:08:08 Being in England 22:08:36 But I am about as far away from London as it is possible to be and that fact to still hold true! 22:08:57 Taneb: 's ok if you were in london you'd just complain that the mill talk is too far to walk 22:08:59 something something compact manifold something. 22:09:26 oerjan, London's pretty big 22:09:42 Like as big as the rest of the UK put together or something 22:09:50 OKAY 22:10:17 oerjan, also I need your advice 22:10:25 I seem to be becoming a Hero against my will 22:10:42 being the capital of the largest empire the world has ever seen tends to do that. 22:11:02 how so 22:11:05 oerjan: wouldn't it be more likely with the smallest 22:11:11 Like, people seem to think I am a paragon of good 22:11:27 shachaf: well the UK was just a small part of the empire 22:11:54 oerjan, by population it was the second-biggest 22:12:04 oh? 22:12:20 well i suppose. 22:12:23 `alignment Taneb 22:12:24 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: alignment: not found 22:12:25 hard to compete with exponential growth. 22:12:32 hm... no alignment command. 22:12:45 London was the second city in the world to get a population over 1000000 22:13:19 huh 22:13:29 san francisco still has a population below 1000000 :'( 22:13:37 shachaf, SF is weird 22:13:48 Have you been? 22:13:48 oerjan, how do I not seem such a paragon of good 22:13:53 i'd vaguely thought the chinese would have beat that but i guess marco polo wasn't talking about individual cities? 22:13:54 shachaf, not in a very long time 22:14:06 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:14:10 Taneb: you need to work on your evil overlord plans hth 22:14:51 shachaf, but one of my housemates lived there for a while 22:16:31 oerjan, I kind of lost my evil overlord plans 22:16:40 Step 1 was stealing nuclear weapons 22:16:45 well i guess you're doomed then 22:17:04 talk to ais523 he has experience on surviving as lawful good hth 22:17:11 And the last step was betraying all my former friends and not giving them the reward I promised 22:17:13 *with 22:17:19 I'm not so sure I'm lawful 22:17:30 you could be neutral or chaotic good, I guess 22:17:35 or true or chaotic neutral 22:17:35 Might even be chaotic I think 22:17:36 Taneb: i think that last step _could_ be against the evil overlord list. 22:18:14 I think I may well be chaotic good 22:18:23 Taneb: have you ever built overcomplicated contraptions to lure in, snare and menace good people? 22:18:33 boily, not that I can recall 22:18:37 does his haskell programs count 22:18:45 *do 22:18:51 oerjan: I think so. 22:19:09 Oh well! 22:19:12 Oh dar 22:19:13 oerjan: no truly good people would be tempted by a haskell program hth 22:19:14 *dear 22:19:20 That puts me into minion territory 22:19:24 Taneb: do you have an unhealthy fascination towards lasers, death rays, disintegration and other zeerusty weapons? 22:19:32 Nah 22:20:02 Taneb: is that obsession instead channeled in the direction of bananas and yellow curved fruits? 22:20:17 I don't really like bananas 22:21:22 module haskellisms, you're a paragon of goodness. 22:21:31 shachaf: that's what a really devious overlord would say 22:21:59 Taneb: what about lenses and barbed wire? 22:22:22 oerjan, in the physical sense, the morphismy sense, or the kmetty sense? 22:22:32 in the ambiguous sense, duh 22:22:36 Maybe 22:23:21 oerjan: how about the seventh sense? 22:23:42 Maybe 22:23:48 seventh??? 22:23:58 boily: the sixth was already taken 22:24:31 pray tell what's the seventh? 22:24:36 * oerjan only remembers that seventh sense is some kind of old term for almanac or something 22:24:47 in norwegian translation 22:25:11 On another note 22:25:23 oerjan, is the most resent GG the first time Zeetha and Bang have met? 22:25:46 * int-e would rather know whether cake has played a role before 22:26:42 Taneb: or at least talked... was bang there in sturmhalten? 22:27:23 oerjan, Bang was in Sturmhalten with Klaus 22:30:47 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:31:12 right. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061220 22:33:32 she didn't show up until they'd stopped talking, though. 22:34:55 Interestingly I don't recognize her by the name "Bang"... "Bangladesh DuPree" says the wiki. 22:35:22 well yes, bang is a nickname some use... 22:35:41 gil perhaps. 22:36:03 the wiki does not mention cake on DuPree's page. 22:38:33 THat's not much of an interaction 22:39:44 Uh, what about this: 'By the time she recovered, the airship had been taken by pirates. (It's speculated, but not proven, that these pirates were those commanded by the infamous pirate queen Bangladesh DuPree.)' ... did the wiki writers make that bit up? 22:39:52 (from http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Zeetha,_Daughter_of_Chump ) 22:41:38 good way to seed a rumor, I suppose 22:42:24 int-e: it's an obvious speculation to make 22:42:53 Yeah, except for the bit where DuPree is still alive. OTOH she *is* a survivor. 22:43:04 um she was _away_ 22:43:21 Best way to survive a fight if you ask me. 22:43:22 it's mentioned in dupree's story 22:43:45 well it must be 22:44:45 oh it refers to one of the novels. 22:45:03 "Zeetha's involvement is practically confirmed by Agatha H. and the Airship City, where it is mentioned that Bang returned to her fortress to find it in flaming ruins and describes the aftermath of the attack the same way Zeetha described the aftermath of her killing of the pirates." 22:47:40 Ah, goody. 22:47:47 Then this encounter could be ... interesting. 22:49:04 it could be more interesting if bang finds out zeetha and gil are related 22:50:39 oerjan, I am pretty sure that Zeetha and Gil haven't found that out yet 22:51:14 ...i think zeetha knows. 22:53:33 my little theory is that klaus's claim that the skifanderians would want to kill gil (for being alive, and (also my theory) a male with skifandrian blood) ... 22:54:06 is technically correct, but that zeetha doesn't want to kill him, and so prefers to pretend she doesn't know. 22:55:18 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:55:20 (my inner theory is based on skifandrians basically being amazons and the amazons killed their male children) 22:56:01 or at least they would kill a male child of a _queen_ 22:56:36 or anyone who could be feared to want to upset the matriarchal order 22:58:51 ok i looked it up and i'm not the first to make that theory http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Gilgamesh_Wulfenbach/Mad 23:13:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:25:42 Huh, the GG timeskip happened in 2013 23:35:15 Weird, I can't make dns queries to 8.8.8.8 23:35:27 But I can ping it just fine 23:36:14 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:37:22 Apparently there is a problem with google dns right now 23:48:07 zeetha and bang also met at the circus but zeetha didn't say anything http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041227 23:58:42 Hmm http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20131220 seems to suggest they met in the timeskip 2015-04-10: 00:00:26 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 00:06:11 oh right that's theoretically possible 00:07:38 i don't think they met on any other occasions before it, because zeetha didn't enter the story until the circus, bang had no reason to revisit the circus afterward, and after the battle in sturmhalten bang was in mechanicsburg hospital where zeetha afair never went. 00:09:52 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:10:17 Taneb: i don't read that as proving that they met one way or the other 00:10:39 I suppose not 00:10:51 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 00:10:56 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:23:46 * boily sings remixes of remixes of remixes of touhou songs ♪ 00:25:26 Maybe I should actually design my Amazing Ultimate Programming Language before I implement it. 00:25:53 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:26:10 Seems like a good, and logical idea. 00:26:23 AndoDaan_: thanks! 00:26:26 Why haven't we've been doing that? 00:29:15 [wiki] [[Al Dente]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42356&oldid=41801 * 68.60.193.216 * (+0) Fix an apostrophe 00:32:45 boily: what kind of remixes? 00:34:23 FireFly: hardcore upbeat trance from IOSYS. 00:34:48 Hm 00:35:21 listening to some touhou stuff yourself? 00:35:49 Quite frequently, but not right now 00:36:04 * FireFly hands boily https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zpBdfnyy7I 00:37:29 I usually listen to other genres, though 00:38:10 I was indulging into some XL Project while coding today. it was smooth. 00:39:20 * orin clicks on link, finds it is something he already had 00:40:32 I wonder if the TLMC will ever get new updates... 00:42:33 recently I have been binge-listening to everything from Lilycloud 00:44:15 I usually just listen to whatever's playing on Gensokyo Radio or Touhou Radio 00:58:54 . o O ( Welcome to the Venetian Underground ) <-- huh i never thought about venice not having cellars before 01:01:25 * boily pictures the Venetian Underground to be quite aquatic... 01:02:18 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:02:32 or do they hm 01:02:53 the houses aren't precisely built straight on water either. not all of them, anyway. 01:04:40 oh pilings 01:04:59 fungot: pilings? 01:04:59 boily: i don't it just ticked me off... " adventures with mental hygiene" 01:05:35 * oerjan thought fungot said "dental hygiene" and wanted to respond "my adventures with that are over" 01:05:35 oerjan: is nfs compiled inside the kernel? 01:05:44 fungot: i don't know 01:05:44 oerjan: maybe i'll stop wasting money since you are working under the presumption that a tc language? 01:06:12 i think you are assuming a lot, fungot 01:06:12 oerjan: as a space in front. 01:06:22 fungot: ha ha ha :D 01:06:22 boily: " i=0" can be important to everyone else 01:06:55 oerjan: dental hygiene is important. prostheses too! 01:14:01 mental (or even metal) hygiene seems more important to fungot than dental hygiene, though. 01:14:02 FireFly: i went and wrote a pretty good balance of both fnord all introductory courses use java, and a 01:15:12 `? å 01:15:13 ​å? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:15:19 `learn å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters. 01:15:29 Learned 'å': å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters. 01:17:35 =char å 01:17:39 er 01:17:42 `? å 01:17:43 å? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:18:01 `unidecode å 01:18:01 ​[U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+030A COMBINING RING ABOVE] 01:18:07 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAÅ 01:18:08 Aren't there normalization rules for things like that? 01:18:23 probably, but that doesn't mean they're applied 01:19:23 it's not like putty shows them identically either 01:19:59 ů! 01:25:21 this time my pumping system will have multiple safety cutoffs and a spillway 01:27:03 The combining one looks like a with a degree symbol above, the precombined one is attached to the a 01:28:05 Všichni lidé se rodí svobodní a sobě rovní co do důstojnosti a práv. 01:29:30 Apparently to dwarves, the human pikeman's corpse is garbage, not a corpse 01:45:42 -!- adu has joined. 01:48:05 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 01:49:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HIGHER CHICKEN). 02:06:08 -!- variable has joined. 02:17:19 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:19:09 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:25:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:37:51 -!- gde33 has quit. 02:53:26 -!- adu has joined. 03:08:41 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:15:50 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:18:15 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: No route to host). 03:20:18 -!- TodPunk has joined. 03:38:21 -!- perrier_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:42:39 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:47:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 04:22:43 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:46:27 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:46:53 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:59:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:00:42 -!- hassa-aravit has joined. 05:07:27 -!- perrier has joined. 05:25:58 Anybody here dealt with Vala before? If so, how was it? I'm looking into using it mainly for JS bindings to a C++ library. 05:27:57 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 05:57:43 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:21:47 fungot, do you like rice chocolate 06:21:47 b_jonas: i'm sorry i was copying form the code littledan posted and did not check my syntax. 06:42:56 -!- vodkode has joined. 07:00:45 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 07:12:11 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:18:38 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 07:22:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:22:36 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:28:12 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 07:48:51 @tell oerjan You were right :( 07:48:51 Consider it noted. 08:27:36 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:35:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:35:04 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:35:41 @tell fungot fnord. 08:35:41 Consider it noted. 08:35:42 mroman: probably. you can code them up using continuations. a numerical tower not " data" is in the compression above. 08:35:55 fungot: I like continuations. 08:35:55 mroman: if there is no explanation on what is the value 08:46:21 fun fact: It is legally impossible to rape a male person in switzerland because rape is only defined if the victim is female. 08:52:25 and the gov explicitly stated "a man can not be raped". 09:37:19 Now the question is whether you can trick fungot into uttering @messages or @messages-loud 09:37:20 FireFly: i mean originally from the fnord convention predates cl by a long 09:57:51 @metar CYYZ 09:57:51 CYYZ 100948Z 14011KT 5SM +TSRA FEW012 BKN045CB OVC085 09/09 A2952 RMK SF2CB4AC2 FRQ LTGIC ALQDS PRESFR SLP001 09:59:55 -!- augur has joined. 10:01:54 -!- fractal has joined. 10:05:44 fungot: Can you say @messages? 10:05:44 mroman: i really wish that i'd been able to resolve it to a compiler. i was a 10:05:59 fungot: you were a? 10:05:59 mroman: i'll suffer for a sec 10:06:09 Oh no. fungot is suffering! 10:06:09 mroman: different song...? :p. ugh i need to 10:08:40 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 10:11:39 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:33:06 fungot: fnord. 10:33:06 mroman: i'm not crazy.) with extreme prejudice. u.s. slang" ( oed)) ( call/ cc 10:33:18 fungot: you're crazy. 10:33:26 -!- zadock has joined. 10:35:50 -!- boily has joined. 10:38:54 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:51:16 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 10:51:30 -!- zadock has joined. 11:11:56 fungot: To be honest, "I'm not crazy" is something you'd expect a crazy bot to say. 11:11:56 fizzie: argument evaluation order is pretty much core to it, calling its methods from c code. some of the casvs problems by just using xulrunner. ' 11:26:07 fiziello. did you know that fungot is sane? 11:26:07 boily: emacs 22, do you want to read it 11:26:21 uhm... ok. perhaps not quite entirely sane. 11:28:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INKY CHICKEN). 11:37:36 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 11:55:52 I'm not crazy. 12:01:43 -!- idris-bot has joined. 12:03:59 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 12:04:49 -!- idris-bot has joined. 12:07:34 int-e: but you're fnord. 12:07:58 mroman: ouch, that hurt. 12:34:27 [wiki] [[Axo]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42357&oldid=16725 * Marinus * (+126) Replace broken links with archive.org links 12:38:11 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:41:35 -!- hjulle has joined. 12:56:43 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:57:19 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:02:58 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:16:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:25:58 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 13:28:59 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:34:28 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 13:43:47 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:46:29 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:53:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:55:55 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:57:57 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42358&oldid=42355 * Chris Pressey * (+131) Edit some statements for clarity 14:01:59 -!- zadock has joined. 14:04:56 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42359&oldid=42358 * Chris Pressey * (+0) 14:10:20 -!- TieSleep has changed nick to TieSoul. 14:22:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:33:06 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:50:25 [wiki] [[Talk:EncryptFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42360&oldid=42352 * 160.85.232.187 * (+135) Encryption? 14:59:54 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:19:57 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:27:32 I have worked on a OASYS assembler (I don't have it on this computer), I managed to write it in 2 days and unlike the OASYS compiler, this one uses name prefix/suffix to indicate the types. Prefix can be % (global variable) & (subroutine) ? (class) , (local or argument) . (property) : (label) ' (vocabulary). Suffix can be @ (object) # (number) $ (string) ^ (pointer). 15:28:02 It doesn't even resemble assembly language, even though it is 15:30:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:30:59 b_jonas: so, I found a contradiction in the YACC standard 15:31:06 it has rules for resolving shift/reduce conflicts, and reduce/reduce conflicts 15:31:13 but they aren't consistent with each other 15:31:30 meaning that you can produce a shift/reduce/reduce conflict where each of the three possible resolutions must be discarded in favour of a different one 15:32:15 http://nethack4.org/pastebin/inconsistent-conflict.y 15:32:48 Opcodes and macros use no prefix, while void data types use no suffix. 15:33:51 ais523: Have you considered using Lemon though? It is an alternative to Yacc 15:34:00 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 15:37:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:37:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:39:00 ais523: is this about precedences again? 15:40:15 zzo38: I think ais523 is writing this stuff partly because nethack4 uses yacc in a few places 15:40:46 Lemon works better though 15:41:48 And, I have fixed Lemon to be compatible with some grammars that aren't LALR(1) even. 15:43:24 zzo38: um, can you tell specifics? what grammars? 15:44:03 maybe I should look into lemon 15:44:32 I mean a few LR(1) grammars that aren't LALR(1) can now be used (although, you need to command it to do the extra processing for the symbols that cannot be used with LALR(1) so that it won't cause a conflict) 15:45:13 Lemon is in the public domain and is written by the same people that made SQLite, and is also used by SQLite. 15:45:44 ais523: that's scary 15:46:50 I hope your yacc will handle it better 15:48:04 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:48:10 A few other features of Lemon is that the runtime does not use any global variables, the lexer calls the parser, you can use multiple Lemon parsers in one program, and you can create and destroy any number of instances of a Lemon parser in one program. 15:50:44 That's pretty cool 15:51:41 zzo38: I wonder if Lemon would be capable of parsing Rust 15:52:09 zzo38: what kind of error recovery does lemon has for input that doesn't match the grammar? is it similar to yacc? 15:52:17 I wouldn't know. What kind of thing are needed for parsing Rust? 15:52:42 b_jonas: I think so, although you can define your own error functions too 15:53:42 It is possible to disable error recovery in case you do not need it (SQLite does not need it) 15:55:21 I have no idea how parsing complexity classes work 16:01:13 zzo38: sqlite does need error recovery 16:01:19 well, in a weaker sense 16:01:46 zzo38: sqlite still needs to signal an error and remain in a consistent state with no changes or leaks when it parses an invalid sql statement 16:01:55 SQLite will find an error and then stop; it won't try to continue parsing if there is an error. 16:02:58 zzo38: yes, it won't continue parsing 16:03:04 but it will still stay in a clean program state 16:03:35 Yes, it will do that 16:08:56 what do 16:10:09 what kind of parser is lemon 16:10:41 It is a shift-reduce parser 16:10:46 apparently it is supra-LALR(1) now, but not quite LR(1)? 16:11:52 quintopia: it can't be full LR(1), that wouldn't be practical, it could blow up in your face exponentially 16:12:19 It was LALR(1) but I added a %split_states command to allow some LR(1) stuff that isn't LALR(1) also working 16:12:39 sure of course...unless you like exponential blowups 16:12:50 b_jonas: There are algorithms for LR(1) which don't take up more memory than LALR(1) when the grammar is LALR(1), though. 16:14:04 (I don't know how these algorithms work, so I used a different one that requires the programmer to explicitly tell the compiler which symbols should use the extra processing for LR(1).) 16:14:46 zzo38: sure, you can determine with an algorithm whether the grammar is LALR(1), right? so that algorithm can just be a conditional on that 16:15:22 b_jonas: That would work of course, but I know there are better algorithms. 16:15:36 One is the "Honalee algorithm" 16:16:17 I admit I don't know enough about LR-parsing, and should learn more 16:16:22 I did try this year, 16:16:35 borrowed a good textbook and tried to learn some of it 16:16:38 but I didn't get too far yet 16:16:51 I definitely should learn more 16:17:24 The runtime for a shift-reduce parser is pretty simple at least (and the runtime doesn't need to care whether it is LR or LALR; only the table is different in these case, but the runtime parser driver is the same) 16:21:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:33:31 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Nitronic Rush). 16:43:03 zzo38: ok, so lemon is basically a better, more modern yacc. it has the same power in the sense that it can parse the same languages, but its interface when you're writing the grammar file and calling the parser is much better. 16:45:17 b_jonas: Yes, at least I find it better 17:17:31 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:22:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:33:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:36:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:50:23 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:05:48 -!- zadock has joined. 18:32:19 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:32:59 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:32:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:33:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:54:22 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:01:12 -!- ^v has joined. 19:10:57 -!- zadock has joined. 19:33:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:44:10 -!- magician has joined. 19:46:12 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:46:12 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780. 20:05:09 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:19:12 -!- CADD has joined. 20:19:45 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 20:20:27 -!- CADD has joined. 20:29:38 -!- hjulle has joined. 20:38:31 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:48:19 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:52:33 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42361&oldid=42328 * Chris Pressey * (+2703) Add Hello, world program in Beatnik 20:58:24 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:58:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:09:09 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42362&oldid=42361 * Chris Pressey * (-48) /* Beatnik */ Eh, the context is probably plenty clear. 21:12:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 21:21:40 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 21:21:47 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:34:14 -!- hjulle has joined. 21:38:48 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:44:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:57 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 21:49:05 `? mad 21:49:05 mad? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:02:16 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:05:25 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:07:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:40:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:41:34 @messages- 22:41:34 Taneb said 14h 52m 42s ago: You were right :( 22:41:55 * oerjan does a victory dance 22:42:00 :P 22:42:09 about what twh 22:42:41 Zeetha and Bang 22:42:48 Also many things 22:42:51 But that in particulary 22:42:54 *-y 22:42:57 *MWAHAHAHA* 22:44:56 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:49:34 Yes, fun. 22:49:58 Poor Violetta. 22:50:30 fungot: do you fight too? 22:50:31 int-e: do you know the federal deficit is huge?" 22:50:37 fungot: well played 22:50:37 int-e: i'll talk to openssl via ffi, and sarahbot will tell you 22:50:44 sarahbot. 22:50:58 fungot: are you in love with sarahbot? 22:50:58 int-e: i also got the answer 22:51:21 fungot: and now you're going to ignore me just as it gets interesting, right? 22:51:21 int-e: you must believe the error message. it won't work with any other. the moves are small and fast to update the paths. with the latest optical fnord technology. 22:51:36 `thanks fungot 22:51:36 Thanks, fungot. Thungot. 22:56:59 -!- orin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:02:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:03:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:15:58 fungot: are you right or is oerjan? 23:15:58 olsner: except that negative numbers require extra code that i might have it wrong in this case i was looking at pocket pc schemes 23:19:46 `? fungot 23:19:46 Jafet: same here. 23:19:47 fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 23:28:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:34:55 Indeed, fungot is a treasure trove of infinite love and wisdom. 23:34:56 int-e: i do i often finish typing and press enter? i 23:35:11 I mean except when it's not. 23:36:53 fungot: I doubt you press enter at all, being a disembodied bot and all 23:36:53 olsner: this capital looks a lot clearer than most e documentation i read ( fnord same ideas, but as far as static libraries and executable headers. ( i have that 23:54:11 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:59:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 2015-04-11: 00:07:45 ^echo @messages-loud 00:07:45 @messages-loud @messages-loud 00:07:45 mroman said 15h 32m 2s ago: fnord. 00:13:20 -!- dianne has joined. 00:16:30 ^echo what 00:16:30 what what 00:18:10 ...is that intentional behavior in order to make fungot potentially able to do interesting things with other bots? 00:18:10 quintopia: no such factoid 00:18:17 oh 00:18:43 hmm, ^echo is not bot safe? 00:18:49 i think it was intentional behavior to be silly hth 00:19:36 ^echo yields falsehood when preceded by its own quotation 00:19:37 yields falsehood when preceded by its own quotation yields falsehood when preceded by its own quotation 00:19:42 was "no such factoid" just markov output or does fungot have a factoid feature? 00:19:42 olsner: is it very hard for me to duck from the things you're about to use, without some intermediate abstraction ( except for sunterlib and sunet lateron). would that be 00:19:46 indeed fungot doesn't prevent triggering other bots 00:19:46 oerjan: to be exact it's stupid of anyone if they use php instead of another language i remember sawing you helping someone in parsing scheme, can i use that 00:20:00 but it has an extensive ignore list itself 00:20:25 olsner: markov hth 00:20:38 ^echo thanks but no 00:20:38 thanks but no thanks but no 00:20:51 tdh, I guess 00:21:44 ^echo oerjan is very what 00:21:44 oerjan is very what oerjan is very what 00:23:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:23:33 ^echo > 1 00:23:33 > 1 > 1 00:23:34 False 00:26:25 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:40:40 ^echo ^echo 00:40:40 ^echo ^echo 00:43:06 -!- lkirk has joined. 00:43:25 -!- variable has joined. 00:43:57 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 00:44:20 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:44:43 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:49:25 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:56:31 So, uh 00:56:34 In FlogScript 00:56:38 Can you, like, actually index strings 00:56:38 e.e 01:00:39 -!- lkirk has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:01:21 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 01:04:49 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:06:12 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 01:18:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:25:20 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 01:27:32 -!- propumpkin has joined. 01:28:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:30:20 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:40:48 -!- propumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 01:49:37 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 01:51:52 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 01:52:48 -!- propumpkin has joined. 01:53:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:53:11 -!- propumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 01:56:02 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:56:12 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:58:37 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:07:29 Lymia: i expect that splitting a string and then counting the length of the first part accomplishes that 02:07:43 or even, splitting by length 02:09:01 or slicing 02:17:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:27:39 Why would a computer take hours after booting up to act normal? 02:30:52 Not everyone's a morning person. 02:37:28 Hellallo! 02:37:42 -!- NihilistDandy has changed nick to ProofTechnique. 02:38:22 There, that's better 02:40:06 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:40:36 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 02:41:47 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:42:49 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 02:45:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:48:29 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:07:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:15:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:35:57 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:42:38 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:43:35 -!- heroux has joined. 03:52:39 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:30:32 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:32:47 -!- variable has joined. 04:42:11 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:51:49 -!- adu has joined. 05:07:45 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:13:40 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 05:21:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:21:44 Is there any "urn:bible:" scheme? 05:30:26 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 06:03:10 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 06:15:12 -!- bb010g has joined. 06:21:21 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 06:53:53 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:55:22 -!- irctc099 has joined. 07:29:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:32:35 Make URIs such as and so on to be valid. 07:37:48 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:38:07 I made up a kind of backtracking parser like: forever { (X,Y)=pop; foreach (W,Z) in action[Y][input[X]] do push(X,call W with argument Z); foreach Z in next[Y][input[X]] do push(X+1,Z); } 07:45:04 How do you compare this to the other kind of parsing? 07:49:46 You will want to start by pushing (length(input),error state) and then (0,0) onto the stack. 07:52:34 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 07:55:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:59:23 Actually here is better way: push(length(input),error value); push(0,0); forever { pop(X,Y); if X=length(input) then return Y; foreach (W,Z) in action[Y][input[X]] do push(X,call W(Z,X)); foreach Z in next[Y][input[X]] do push(X+1,Z); } At first you must ensure that the input sequence ends with the EOF token 08:00:04 -!- mroman has joined. 08:04:12 something's wrong with my vserver. 08:04:27 Do you know what thing is wrong? 08:05:22 it reboots for unknown reasons 08:05:30 and now my root password doesn't seem to work anylonger. 08:06:05 oh wait. no it works. 08:06:28 hm 08:06:40 maybe the did maintenance on their physical hosts 08:06:50 but forgot to inform me that they reboot vms 08:16:21 Is it OK now though? 08:18:25 * Taneb good mooooorning 08:21:31 zzo38, I am in the UK 08:21:38 (York, in particular, now) 08:21:46 zzo38: yeah 08:21:48 uptime is 17h now 08:21:54 it rebooted twice yesterday though 08:25:28 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:30:22 How is this parser I made up compared with other ones? 08:36:39 what parser? 08:37:18 The one which is: add EOF to input buffer; push(length(input),error value); push(0,0); forever { pop(X,Y); if X=length(input) then return Y; foreach (W,Z) in action[Y][input[X]] do push(X,call W(Z,X)); foreach Z in next[Y][input[X]] do push(X+1,Z); } 08:46:41 so 08:47:00 action[Y][input[X]] contains parse functions? 08:47:42 with one character lookahead? 08:48:35 Not quite 08:49:56 Rather, the functions might be used to enter or exit the parser for a particular nonterminal; they can do other things too though. 08:55:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Niteoid). 09:01:04 -!- oren has joined. 09:05:44 9% of the human population is disabled? 09:07:04 More than 1 billion persons in the world have some form of disability. This corresponds to about 15% of the world's population. 09:07:07 WP says it's even 15% 09:08:52 Probably includes nearsighted people, people who have slight deafness (like me), people who are too old to walk. 09:10:22 So the number would be pretty high, there are so many people who need glasses 09:12:40 If you consider that as "disabled" then yes. 09:12:44 Then the number is pretty damn high. 09:13:22 if you take the definition of "disability funds" because you can't work due to your disability then the number should be less. 09:14:13 Well there are different levels, aome jobs might need perfect eyesight or perfect hearing, but most jobs don't. 09:15:57 On the other hand sometimes people complain about an infuriating noise distracting them, and I say "what noise". 09:19:43 Hmm... it seems statistically trouble walking or climbing stairs is the most common disability 09:23:35 well if you're fit to do another job you'll be forced to retrain for another job. 09:24:24 You can't just not work because you can't to the job you originally did any longer, you'll have to learn how to do another job. 09:24:43 unless you wanna live of social welfare which isn't really a lot of money. 09:24:51 Right 09:25:06 *off 09:25:29 unless you have some disability pension 09:25:34 I don't really know how they work. 09:25:56 Although I think many of the people who acquire a disablity do so because they simply are getting old... 09:26:55 Everything from their eyes to their bones starts to have problems 09:27:08 there's insurance against incapacity to work 09:27:38 but I'm not sure if that's an additional optional insurance or one you have to have or one you automatically get. 09:28:20 this stuff probably varies greatly by jurisdiction 09:29:15 Yeah. 09:29:24 It appears that 60% of my salary is "insured". 09:30:05 if I'm 70% disabled I get 60% of my original salary paid for two years 09:30:20 but after that it stops :) 09:30:38 so I'd have two years to find a job I can still do 09:30:53 or if I'm to disabled to continue meaningful work I have to apply for "income disability" 09:31:14 (there's "work disability" == "can't do your job anymore" and "income disability" == "can't do any meaningful job anymore") 09:31:38 oh 09:32:04 unless I'm older than 50 years at the time of becoming disabled 09:32:10 then there's no two years restriction. 09:32:36 oren: this stuff varies a lot by jurisdiction, your employer 09:32:44 and which insurance company your employer uses. 09:34:03 and if I die my children will get money 09:34:23 "orphan's pension"? 09:34:34 I guess that's the english word for that. 09:34:59 which is 60% of something that also xx% of something else 09:35:10 It's aimed at getting them through school 09:35:15 but not to live off it for longer periods. 09:35:21 but I don't have children. 09:35:22 :D 09:36:06 I need to see about getting a job pretty soon 09:37:10 And stop being a NEET 09:38:37 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:38:53 My current plan is to stay in the E that doesn't pay as well as long as I can 09:41:40 -!- TieSleep has changed nick to TieSoul. 09:44:39 It's going well 09:47:09 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 09:48:22 https://gist.github.com/TieSoul/373d98cac227ec51ba4d so I'm working on something 09:48:37 (brainfuck is just a test for the lexer/parser system) 10:14:25 and what are you working on? 10:15:25 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:15:25 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:23:34 The comments at http://en.chessbase.com/post/us-champ-r9-forfeit are so much fun; some of them suggest the arbiter should be using a double standard and not forfeit *top* players when they violate rules despite having been warned about it... 10:24:10 (Not really fun. I'm suffering from a case of http://xkcd.com/386) 10:25:54 They should be disqualified if they seriously violate the rules, whether they are the top players or not. They can try again in the next tournament though. 10:26:21 Hmm, this terminal thought the ) was part of the url... 10:30:01 mroman: I'm working on a lexer and parser system for arbitrary grammars 10:30:10 zzo38: I'm also now waiting for the first case of a player being disqualified for "analysing any game on another chessboard." when they wander around and look at their competitor's game. ;-) 10:30:33 or competitors' 10:30:58 TieSoul: to what level of "arbitrary" 10:31:16 any unambiguous grammar? 10:31:59 oren: yup 10:36:38 https://gist.github.com/TieSoul/ed33bf2c5365b2ed0a7e an example 10:39:22 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:52:55 so it's based on regexes 11:24:16 yup 11:27:45 fungot: Do you like regexes? 11:27:45 mroman: you may need to introduce any extra nesting by receiving the multiple values extension is as important!". kthxbye. 11:28:10 TieSoul: see. I told you to introduce extra nesting and multiple values extension. 11:30:01 lol 11:35:39 but no... you told me you couldn't do it... 11:35:55 fungot: Can you do it? 11:35:55 mroman: i think the category theory is mostly a browser-only thing ever, the lives of folks who were thinking about lazy strings/ ropes/ whatever they are 11:36:05 :D 11:36:11 Category Theory is sure a browser-only thing. 11:36:28 `? category theory 11:36:32 In category theory, category theory is a theory in the category of theories. 11:36:46 ... and it's only used in browsers. 11:37:56 `? browser 11:38:00 browser? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:41:50 What's a browser? 11:41:55 Must be a category theory thing. 11:42:25 fungot: What browser do you use? 11:42:25 mroman: yah i agree. though riastradhs variant is not formally checkable 11:42:38 fungot: agree with what? 11:42:38 mroman: i don't mind looking at some code? i want to call something a functor unless it's returning a function 11:43:42 fungot: Category Theory is just a theory. It hasn't been proven yet. 11:43:55 `define A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. 11:44:08 Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://google.com/search?q=define:%41%20%62%72%6f%77%73%65%72%20%69%73%20%61%20%47%6f%70%68%65%72%20% 11:44:14 (It's `learn) 11:46:10 oh. 11:46:14 `learn A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. 11:46:20 Learned 'browser': A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. 11:48:14 `? Gopher 11:48:15 Gopher? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:48:57 Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2 11:49:24 `learn Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. 11:49:37 Learned 'gopher': Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. 11:50:56 and google is down. 11:51:05 can't reach google.com, google.de nor google.ch 11:52:25 TieSoul: You play Pokémon? 11:52:33 yeah 11:52:35 why? 11:52:42 I'm stalking your gists. 11:52:49 lol 11:52:51 and there's a Nidoqueen. 11:52:56 I don't know what Arbok is though 11:53:12 my only public gist 11:53:19 is from a pokemon battle simulator I wrote 11:53:19 oh that snake pokémon 11:53:21 lol 11:53:46 `` rev <<< arbok 11:53:47 kobra 11:53:53 `` rev <<< ekans 11:53:57 snake 11:54:28 `` rev <<< pikachu 11:54:29 uhcakip 11:54:34 well lol 11:54:39 What's an uhcakip? 11:54:43 uh cake ip 11:54:45 Uh, Cake IP? 11:55:19 `` rev <<< izabera 11:55:20 arebazi 11:55:42 well... I'm off to buy me a bicycle. 11:55:50 why 11:55:55 we have cars 11:55:59 cars suck 11:56:06 we also have trains and planes 11:56:06 and pollute the universe! 11:56:09 The WHOLE universe. 11:56:15 yeah but trains are friendly people. 11:56:31 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 11:56:44 I was going to recommend the LEO (Link Everything Online) gopher service (which featured a english/german/english dictionary!), but I'm afraid they dismantled the gopher server years ago. 12:01:48 `` rev <<< muk 12:01:49 kum 12:02:00 Muk is a pokemon btw 12:03:02 `` rev <<< mudkip 12:03:03 Old joke from the playground years ago: Ekans is snake backwards, Arbok is cobra backwards, what about Muk? 12:03:03 pikdum 12:03:12 dum pikachu? 12:28:01 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42363&oldid=42359 * Chris Pressey * (+213) Add internal link to Hello world and external link to Python implementation 12:30:34 -!- boily has joined. 12:31:25 -!- zadock has joined. 12:31:26 -!- zadock has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 12:45:43 what is a .debanyway 12:47:31 > ar t libiw30_30~pre9-8_amd64.deb 12:47:31 debian-binary 12:47:31 control.tar.gz 12:47:31 data.tar.gz 12:47:32 Not in scope: ‘ar’ 12:47:32 Perhaps you meant one of these: 12:47:32 ‘a’ (imported from Debug.SimpleReflect), 12:48:21 Ah, so it's like an archive with some files and metadata as to what to do with them? 12:49:34 yeah, control.tar.gz contains meta information, install and uninstall scripts, things like that 12:52:21 * oren is considering trying to make a .deb for dwarf fortress 12:53:22 Ah but there are tools for that. https://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian looks like a suitable starting point. 12:54:11 (Disclaimer: I have not actually made a deb package yet.) 13:03:23 -!- oren has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:03:48 -!- orin has joined. 13:11:09 orbyen. hellorin. 13:16:11 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:23:49 -!- shikhin has changed nick to bacon. 13:23:57 -!- bacon has changed nick to shikhin. 13:25:31 I restarted my computer because firefox was screwing up even after I pkilled it 13:27:33 lulz 13:32:30 it seems to be fine now 13:33:34 now what I really need to figure out is why my level generator code is making roads that lead to nothing 13:36:35 http://postimg.org/image/w9gs905y3/full/ the problem occurse in the pink square 13:38:30 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:43:34 Fixed. I really screwd up the road-merging part last night 13:44:49 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:47:04 You could just add things that the roads lead to. 13:48:01 Jafet: That is what was supposed to happen 13:49:00 Roads come from either side of the level or from tunnels and go off either side or into a tunnel 13:49:34 A road isn't supposed to bea ble to just... end 13:53:08 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:59:28 -!- irctc099 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:00:40 You can say that to the town council over here. 14:03:29 :t 1 -- 1 14:03:32 Num a => a 14:14:56 what game is this? 14:23:52 I think one that orin is making 14:25:37 Help I am in at least 2 IRC channels WITH CYBORGS 14:28:37 Taneb: welcome to the future 14:28:59 Taneb: did any of them say "come with me if you want to live"? 14:29:09 \o/ 14:29:09 | 14:29:09 >\ 14:29:12 There is one 14:29:16 (did I get this right?) 14:29:18 I don't think either hav 14:29:19 e 14:29:47 (yeah I did. good.) 14:34:27 -!- hjulle has joined. 15:10:15 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 15:11:38 -!- llue has joined. 15:11:38 -!- llue has quit (Changing host). 15:11:38 -!- llue has joined. 15:15:41 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:24:16 -!- bb010g has joined. 15:25:12 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:52:06 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:04:07 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:12:20 Phantom_Hoover, I'm blaming you for this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-32264914 16:21:51 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 16:31:20 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:33:49 -!- yorick has joined. 16:34:07 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:34:28 -!- yorick has joined. 16:35:31 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:36:08 -!- yorick has joined. 16:36:09 -!- yorick has quit (Changing host). 16:36:09 -!- yorick has joined. 16:58:24 Taneb, i'm not even in england! 16:58:53 Phantom_Hoover, wow, how did you manage to do it, then? 17:00:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:01:08 Taneb: Time travel, obviously. 17:01:12 Ah 17:01:26 You should try it, it's great for deniability. 17:07:34 In any case it sounds like a brilliantly successful demonstration. 17:10:09 Should I move the stuff from the old LEO gopher service into my own? I don't even have a copy though, so I can't. 17:11:18 hezzo38. what's LEO? 17:11:55 I don't know; int-e mentioned it above. 17:12:33 int-ello. what's LEO? 17:27:20 boily: "Link Everything Online". You may know its remnants ( ;-) ) on the World Wide Web, under leo.org. 17:30:52 tdh. t. 17:37:24 int-e: it sounds like space travel might be more effective to get to england 17:38:59 Koen_: Perhaps, but that may compromise your alibi. 17:39:48 well, time travel preserves the alibi because people assume you're not time traveling, nothing more 17:40:09 similarly space travel wouldn't compromise your alibi if people didn't know you could space travel to england 17:41:51 fungot, do you ever time travel or space travel? 17:41:51 b_jonas: lain was a bit comical 17:50:19 -!- magician has joined. 17:50:58 `relcome magician 17:50:59 ​magician: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:53:21 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:53:21 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780. 17:58:31 boily: Btw, "remnants": The main part of what LEO was meant to be is indeed gone: It was a directory service for Gopher, intended to be comprehensive. 18:57:56 I think there are now other directory services for gopher 19:20:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: %%%%%%%%). 19:26:17 . o O ( Gopher - where we're going, we don't need an information superhighway. ) 19:38:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:07:05 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:12:42 So, are there infinitely many pairs of 5-smooth numbers differing by 2? 20:13:33 According to http://oeis.org/A219794, it would be "very surprising" if there were. 20:13:40 I don't see why that's the case. 20:23:42 I can think of a bunch. 1 and 3, 2 and 4, 3 and 5, 4 and 6... 20:25:05 It's because the density of the 5-smooth number is so low; there are only O(log(n)^3) of them up to n. (Compare this to primes with O(n/log n) primes up to n.) 20:25:30 That makes sense. 20:25:44 Some Haskelling suggests that the largest pair is 160 and 162. 20:26:06 Which is just the doubling of the largest pair of numbers differing by 1, which is 80 and 81. 20:26:52 The only pair differing by 2 which isn't "obvious" given the pairs differing by 1 is (25, 27). 20:27:20 Oh that's another funny detail. lim inf a(n) >= 2 (an amazing fact, hmm) means that only finitely many pairs arise by doubling 20:28:24 Because it says that there are only finitely many pairs of 5-smooth numbers with difference 1. 20:29:04 The only pair differing by 3 not "obvious" from prior pairs is (125, 128). For 4, 5, and 6, there are no "non-obvious" pairs. 20:30:34 -!- tswrcclt has joined. 20:30:58 For 7, there are two: (128, 135) and (243, 250). 20:31:48 My computer is being very sluggish now. 20:32:01 I think GHCi crashed. 20:33:47 -!- Decim has joined. 20:34:12 I'm making an AI what should it do 20:34:25 make coffee 20:34:32 It should play Brood War. 20:34:54 it should write functional Brainfuck code 20:35:06 it should analyze a source tarball and work out how to compile it 20:35:27 Omai 20:35:27 It should analyze English text and classify words into parts of speech. 20:35:33 it should analyze a source tarball and then compile it 20:35:46 Note that my suggestions are actually serious. 20:35:47 These are really good ideas 20:36:08 it should play arbitrary NES games 20:36:16 someone did that already so it's possible 20:36:36 Yeah 20:36:46 The brainfuck thing though 20:37:33 (btw, I wonder if you could make Prolog write brainfuck code to solve a particular problem) 20:38:14 (it would output all possible solutions too which is nice) 20:38:31 What did you mean by writing functional code I would have to make the algorithm learn the entire language 20:38:37 And idk the language so 20:38:48 It's a pretty simple language. 20:38:50 Guess I have to learn it before I start? 20:39:09 brainfuck is about the simplest language ever 20:39:16 Eight commands. "Add one", "subtract one", and so forth. 20:39:23 Tarballs are another thing entirely 20:39:35 Compiling Tarball AI bot 20:39:56 I don't know kids I'm only a kid 20:40:06 Help, GHC is using nearly six gaggleboots of memory. 20:40:13 if you're starting out with AI 20:40:20 try something easy like Tic-Tac-Toe 20:40:21 :P 20:40:28 Starting out? 20:40:45 tswrcclt: that's how you know it's a serious programming language ... :-/ 20:41:14 I had to make a self responsive bot for a school project although I got a D- on it 20:41:18 Uh, memory usage seems to have stabilized. 20:41:46 Is space an issue? 20:41:46 Went all the way up to 6.9 before going back down a little. 20:45:32 Infinite possibilites in tic tac toe or more to a large ammount of finite possibilites 20:47:28 Decim: space is always an issue :) 20:47:44 Just uncap ur ram 20:48:12 And overclock everything while keeping your server under a mile of ice 20:48:54 wtf. "2 GB DDR3L SDRAM, 32 GB Solid-State Drive and 1TB OneDrive Cloud Storage for one year" ... 20:49:06 ? 20:49:23 I made the mistake to search for "laptop" on amazon, now marvelling at the crap they offer. 20:49:31 Lol 20:49:54 Int-e there's a lot better stuff than that 20:50:37 Also more on point I don't have enough space for something like a tarball compiler 20:52:10 Decim: Of course there is. And it's good to see that even absolute crap has 2GB RAM, and normal laptops have 4GB or 8GB. 20:53:53 What's your setup Int-e 20:54:04 I forgot mine 20:54:13 Still, memory usage matters; on VPSs, RAM determines the price. 20:55:23 I have 8GB RAM in a PC at home... which is too small for some things I'm doing. (ghc is pushing the limits; some big Isabelle theories are taking off the lid) 20:57:09 But lambdabot is running on a VM with 512MB RAM + 512MB swap, which is not enough to build it anymore. 21:00:02 What are you doing 21:00:10 And wtf is an isabelle theory 21:00:19 TieSoul: "We" did arbitrary Atari games. 21:00:42 Compiling haskell-src-exts with ghc-7.10.1 takes 5GB... 21:00:55 ...it's a dependency of lambdabot 21:01:03 Take me to the begining of this whole ghc stuff isabelle theory idk I havent payed attention to stuff 21:01:22 Don't you guys have articles or something 21:01:45 None of this has to do anything with #esoteric really. 21:01:53 Probably 21:02:05 Why does it depend on lambdabot 21:02:20 Isabelle is a proof assistent, http://isabelle.in.tum.de/ , and she's quite memory-hungry. 21:02:33 ...what would happen if you deleted every version of lambdabot 21:02:48 Why would I do that? 21:02:59 Idk u were dieing 21:03:06 Not that I could. It's been forked several times on github. 21:03:10 And you were like fuck it 21:03:36 Decim: I suppose the world would just go on turning. 21:04:20 Until 569075432 AD when the sun expands 21:04:34 I think that 5b 21:04:35 Idk 21:06:34 Aw man isabelle is just on a bullshit level of nope for me I don't think I could ever have that much memory Im pretTy poor atm 21:11:59 Gnight 21:13:43 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 21:15:40 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 21:16:48 -!- Decim has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:18:51 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:23:12 -!- bixnode has joined. 21:37:45 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 21:37:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:38:09 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 21:41:46 -!- bixnode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:04 -!- bixnode has joined. 22:16:28 -!- boily has joined. 22:22:32 helloily 22:23:00 quinthellopia 22:23:23 -.- you're not boily 22:23:41 I know 22:25:06 you tryna trick me with your "b" name and your characteristically boily-like response 22:26:45 ah sorry 22:26:48 I didn't try to 22:27:15 well in that case 22:27:20 bon_journas 22:27:50 Is thid document understandable to you? http://sprunge.us/cCCL (I didn't invent the OASYS VM; it days from 1992, but was not documented before, so this is a document of it.) 22:28:37 s/thid/this/ 22:30:45 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 22:30:56 quinthellopia! 22:31:02 b_jonas: you're not me. 22:31:20 zzo38: I'm looking 22:42:13 what do you this day mssr. boily 22:46:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:46:56 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 22:47:07 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:49:10 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:49:26 zzo38: yes, it's understandible, but there's some difficulties: 22:49:44 it would be nice if there was an introductory paragraph at the beginning to tell what the whole thing is about; 22:50:11 -!- tswrcclt has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:50:27 OK, is there anything else to consider? 22:50:34 I think it would read easier if you first told the simpler case about how matching an input phrase and calling the corresponding method is handled, and only after that told about phrases with commas; 22:50:59 tell somewhere what character set the strings and vocabulary uses; 22:52:21 maybe, before telling how a method, a class, and the list of properties is represented in the input, put an introduction telling what those things are for; 22:53:22 in particular, mention that a method has an invocant which isn't listed in the argument list; 22:55:26 and maybe call the "message number" of a method an "error message number" or something instead 22:55:47 because it seems to be used for handling the error when a suitable object is not found; 22:56:03 Yes, that is what the "message number" does 22:57:59 in the listing of tasks the main loop does, split "Parse the command." to two parts: find the method to invoke for the command, then find the arguments for that method from the command using selector methods. 22:58:09 OK 22:58:31 Because that really seems two steps to me. 23:00:56 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:02:03 where you say "C rounding", does that mean the rule from old C (which allows two possibilities for some inputs) or modern C rounding from later standards? 23:02:42 I don't actually know. 23:04:03 OASYS was originally written in C++ though. 23:05:40 um, when you say "You must invoke the selector method on each object of the class", how is the class determined? 23:06:20 oh, is it determined from matching the class phrase? 23:06:29 O, it is determined by which class phrase it matches. 23:06:32 hmm 23:06:34 Yes, that is correct 23:07:08 how does this matching work then if the class phrases are variable length and the method phrases can have object slot gaps and fixed words mixed in any order? 23:07:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:08:45 It works just by which matches, such as if "blue key" is a class phrase and "put in " is a method phrase, then "put blue key in blue key" will match. I don't know what else you meant? 23:09:29 @tell Gregor glogbot could need an NTP update hth 23:09:29 Consider it noted. 23:09:58 zzo38: I mean what if there's an ambiguity, or at least a word occurs in many phrases? will the matcher backtrack to try all method phrases with all combinations of class phrases to find a match? that seems unlikely 23:10:31 I suppose it is implementation-defined, although it has to try to find the match. 23:10:49 I see 23:10:53 My own implementation in BASIC does use backtracking though. 23:11:14 I have the C++ implementation too but don't remember how it works. 23:11:33 -!- variable has joined. 23:12:05 then maybe mention that this is implementation-defined 23:12:52 OK 23:13:10 As long as it gets the correct result it doesn't matter how it is implemented though. 23:13:40 it can matter if there's an ambiguity, or if it doesn't always find the match 23:13:56 in fact 23:14:01 it can even matter what error message you get 23:14:28 OK, I will try to figure it out 23:14:30 like if you say "put red key in blue key" the error message could tell you it doesn't know about "red key" but the rest seems fine 23:15:01 The C++ implementation (as well as my BASIC implementation) will just print "I don't understand you." if that happens. 23:15:11 ok 23:15:31 I guess that's mostly enough because in this case "red" is likely not in the vocabulary 23:15:42 a game like this will generally use single words when possible 23:15:54 If that's the case it will print "I don't understand the word 'red'." when that occurs. 23:16:10 But that's really an implementation detail anyways I suppose. 23:16:33 yep 23:19:30 g'nite 23:19:40 OK 23:30:30 mroman: I'm working on a lexer and parser system for arbitrary grammars <-- that's undecidable hth 23:30:59 oerjan: you can just enter an infinite loop trying to decide 23:31:10 I'm also working on a parser system, but currently only for LALR(1) 23:31:10 whether you are actually trying the impossible or just don't know about the chomsky hierarchy, i do not yet know. 23:31:26 ais523: hm i suppose 23:31:51 "arbitrary grammars" could mean type 1 I guess, for someone who doesn't realise what type 0 is? 23:32:19 type 2 rather, iirc 23:32:24 or, well, yes 23:32:38 is type 2 decidable even if you allow an empty RHS? 23:33:07 type 1 is decidable anyway just by brute force 23:33:29 type 1 is PSPACE, essentially 23:33:38 (equivalent in strenght) 23:33:45 right, it doesn't look very computationally fast 23:34:09 type 2 is decidable in O(n^3) 23:34:32 well for a fixed grammar 23:35:07 oerjan: right, the bison manual mentions that offhand 23:35:18 and I forgot until you mentioned it 23:35:18 perhaps even including the grammar. 23:35:25 huh, the post correspondence problem is neat 23:35:33 unambiguous type 2 in O(n^2) 23:35:42 it's got to be possible to make an esolang out of that 23:35:49 given that it's a simple undecidable problem 23:36:14 oerjan: and LR(k) for any k in O(n), right? 23:36:15 and earley parsers gracefully get both of those as well as O(n) for LR(1) 23:36:24 well yeah 23:36:26 err, for any fixed k 23:36:50 LR(k) = LR(1) on language acceptance level 23:36:51 something that amused me a lot is that the syntax yacc uses as input is LR(2) but not LR(1) 23:37:04 heh 23:37:05 the yacc-in-yacc in the POSIX standard gets around it by doing some of the parsing in the lexer, which is cheating 23:37:18 how did they manage that 23:37:31 basically there doesn't have to be any delimiter between rules 23:37:45 and an identifier is a rule LHS if it's followed by a colon, part of the RHS otherwise 23:38:03 "we'll make a parser generator that can parse any reasonable language, and then make its own language not fit" best idea 23:38:09 when you see an identifier after a rule RHS, therefore, you have to reduce the RHS if there's a colon after it, shift the identifier otherwise 23:38:18 = two symbols of lookahead 23:38:36 *a colon after the identifier 23:39:13 hah 23:39:20 now I'm wondering if there's some crazy way to get it to be LR(1) anyway by rewriting the grammar with a bunch of intermediate steps 23:39:38 isn't there some universal way to convert LR(2) to LR(1) and still match the same set of strings? just the structure of the grammar is all wrong 23:39:50 yes, that's what i implied above 23:40:08 the POSIX standard's method of working around this is to define "identifier and a colon" as a separate token, which is really blatant cheating 23:42:13 maybe, it's still a regular language for the lexer 23:42:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:51:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:55:33 `` ls wisdom/zy* 23:55:36 wisdom/zygohistomorphic-prepromorphism 23:56:00 `? zygohistomorphic-prepromorphism 23:56:00 Zygohistomorphic-prepromorphism Used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor 23:56:52 `learn A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor. 23:56:57 Learned 'zygohistomorphic': A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor. 23:57:30 `` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{, prepromorphism} 23:57:31 mv: cannot stat `wisdom/zygohistomorphic{,': No such file or directory 23:57:47 `` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"} 23:57:49 No output. 23:58:01 `` rm wisdom/zy*-* 23:58:09 No output. 23:58:17 `` ls wisdom/zy* 23:58:21 wisdom/zygohistomorphic prepromorphism 23:58:44 * oerjan vaguely considers whether he could have done that more efficiently. 2015-04-12: 00:10:02 \me was going to repeat his assertion that any decent language should be parsable in o(n) time with o(n) space. 00:10:58 * boily suspects that orin has \ and / on the same key... 00:11:01 but obviously many widely used languages aren't 00:11:19 orin: well that certainly includes LR(1) languages 00:11:20 quintopia: today I slept! 00:12:02 or LR(k) for that matter 00:14:52 hmm, what about INTERCAL before the fix that made it possible to parse 00:14:58 IIRC that's type 2 but not LR(k) for any k 00:15:05 also it's ambiguous, which doesn't help 00:15:18 charming 00:16:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:16:10 it takes some effort to construct an expression with two parses but you can do it 00:16:23 ais523: does it involve rabbit ears and/or sparks? 00:16:27 yes, and arrays 00:17:38 I am fairly certain that Perl cannot be parsed. 00:17:57 orin: actually Perl is parsed by YACC 00:18:14 the only thing that's awkward is that Perl has a construct that runs as soon as it's parsed, and it can change the way that the rest of the file parses 00:18:19 and you can put arbitrary TC stuff in there 00:18:35 which makes parsing Perl undecidable, but in a rather mundane way 00:18:51 -!- magician has joined #esoteric. -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). -!- magician is now known as Guest3780. <-- I THINK E'S DOING IT WRONG HTH 00:18:55 Oh... so that's why only perl can parse perl 00:19:27 You need the whole language in the parser 00:19:35 yep 00:19:47 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 00:21:28 I thought it just had an ambiguous grammar with a lot of cases that are settled in an arbitrary way 00:21:53 Or is that C++ 00:23:34 C++'s grammar is not ambiguous. It's not context-free. It's not even context-sensitive 00:23:49 like Perl, parsing C++ is generally undecideable 00:25:56 Are templates turing-complete? 00:26:09 coppro: i think ambiguous is not inconsistent with undecidable hth 00:26:45 no wait they don't even need to be 00:27:19 in fact i think those are pretty orthogonal 00:27:57 coppro: er, really? 00:28:00 You just need to be able to make one that takes O(n^2) or worse time to decide whether some token A is a type or a value, 00:28:06 isn't template computation limited 00:28:14 I can't imagine what else you could exploit for that 00:28:17 elliott: constexpr 00:28:26 isn't constexpr sub-TC 00:28:28 no 00:28:33 okay 00:28:37 there's usually a recursion limit on templates, but except for that I think they are TC 00:28:37 how can you use it to mess with parsing? 00:28:51 also what olsner said 00:29:00 the limit is often "compiler's available memory" though 00:29:19 yeah but it's limited so. 00:29:21 as I understand it the "typename X" stuff is supposed to allow parsing to continue without template expansion 00:29:33 olsner: right, but that only works inside a template 00:29:45 coppro: can you show me an example of some C++ whose parsing does not terminate 00:30:32 So i guess that's me question. is it possible to make a C++ string which cannot be parsed in O(n) time 00:31:01 template struct foo { typedef int bar; }; template <> struct foo { static int bar; }; void fail() { int i; { foo::bar * i; } } 00:31:51 aha 00:33:29 the clang testsuite includes a UTM written with constexpr 00:39:25 it was more the implemention of does_TM_halt I was curious about, but 00:39:32 I guess constexpr is just underrestricted? 00:39:45 are you sure the standard doesn't specify some arbitrary implementation limit :p 00:39:49 I think constexpr is just "do arbitrary stuff at compile time" 00:39:51 (...are you sure C++ is actually TC) 00:41:53 C++ is not directly TC at run time 00:42:22 ais523: it wasn't intended to be TC; people who are bad at computer science theory were involved in the design and thought that they'd managed to make a version of constexpr which was powerful but not problematic. 00:42:28 but it was actually TC 00:42:33 ah right 00:42:49 powerful but sub-TC is a difficult line to walk 00:42:55 C/C++ are not TC only due to the limitation in memory 00:42:58 maybe aiming for primitive recursive is the best bet 00:43:24 and C is potentially TC because of the file API, nothing in C limits files to any particular arbitrary size 00:43:37 ah, right. But I mean without files. 00:43:59 and you can sort of consider it in a meta approach 00:44:14 where every time you get a memory error, you double the pointer size and retry 00:44:28 VLAs and recursion let you allocate arbitrary amounts of memory up to the size of the largest integer or size_t, whichever is smaller 00:44:48 actually you don't even really need recursion 00:51:14 coppro: is constexpr really more TC than runtime C++ 00:51:23 that is so dumb 00:51:53 not really, many languages are designed to require more power to compile than they do to run 00:52:11 just not normally in the "undecidable vs. TC" sense 00:57:25 elliott: Well, C++ is straight TC because of templates too. 00:57:38 those are limited though 00:57:50 so any portable C++ program can't use them to demonstrate TCness 00:58:16 Well yes, a C++ compiler can just bail on it. Alas. 00:58:46 But then a C compiler only has to handle a fairly small number of blocks. 01:03:57 I'm back 01:04:01 Dang nabt it 01:04:08 One entity is getting annoying 01:24:06 pikhq: really, thy don't have to heandle arbitrary nesting depth? 01:26:09 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:48:21 orin: Nope. 01:52:38 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:56:55 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CARDINAL CHICKEN). 02:05:37 -!- longbyte1 has joined. 02:05:38 -!- longbyte1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:13:57 -!- orin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:30:57 -!- orin has joined. 02:34:13 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 03:53:22 I remember that my grandfather once told me he would call the President on the telephone and tell him to remove the word "I don't want" from the dictionary. (And yet we both live in Canada, eh?) 03:56:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:56:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:58:37 I don't think the president has any authority with the dictionary 03:59:48 did you know that “( i+=2 < 3 )” means “( i+=(2 < 3) )” ? 04:00:29 yes 04:00:55 Yes 04:00:55 assignment has very low precedence 04:01:15 Taneb: Yes, I know, that isn't his job 04:01:52 i didn't... i just wrote a loop that never ended because of that >.> 04:03:50 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:04:17 Oh. yes, you can't replace i++ with i+=1 in the general case 04:04:21 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * 0x0dea * New user account 04:04:37 -!- barrucadu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:06:33 apparently it's Greek Orthodox Easter 04:07:00 O, I didn't know when Greek Orthodox Easter was this year; now I can know! 04:09:11 I can tell because outside the window, they are having a ceremony with candles and singing 04:10:05 and a lot of bell ringing 04:10:41 seems like they've gone inside now though 04:20:22 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42364&oldid=42363 * 0x0dea * (+419) Add alphabet program 04:20:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:30:04 izabera: I think the problem here is that you wanted to write an expression like (i+=2) < 3 in the first place 04:31:43 it's not like it's undefined behavior 04:32:04 I was assuming in a while statement 04:32:27 like while(i++ < n) 04:32:45 he changed it to while(i+=2 < n) to go two at a time 04:33:03 and was surprised when it didn't work 04:34:14 the pronouns people guess for some nicks will never cease to surprise me 04:36:38 Elliotte 04:36:43 i'm a girl 04:36:44 interesting. i bet it changes when people are asked what pronoun they'd use as opposed to writing with out thinking 04:39:31 -!- dianne has joined. 04:39:43 we should ask dianne what his opinion is 04:39:47 * oerjan runs away 04:41:32 ...? ^^; 04:41:34 Ok. dianne, do you think it's bad to write an expression like i += 2 < 3 in C? 04:42:26 This can be confusing because it means i += (2 < 3) instead of (i += 2) < 3 04:42:28 Someone's mistering the point here 04:43:17 ah, I personally wouldn't put an assignment there at all, but I'd rather not argue code aesthetics 04:43:27 `cc main(i){while(i+=2<3);} 04:43:44 No output. 04:43:59 `cat bin/cc 04:44:00 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$@" > /tmp/a.c && gcc /tmp/a.c -o /tmp/a.out && /tmp/a.out 04:44:05 it probably looped around 04:44:55 `` echo 'main(i){while(i+=2<3);}' >/tmp/a.c && gcc -c -std=c99 -Wall -Wextra /tmp/a.c 04:44:58 ​/tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: return type defaults to ‘int’ [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: type of ‘i’ defaults to ‘int’ [enabled by default] 04:45:26 `` echo 'main(i){while(i&&i||i);}' >/tmp/a.c && gcc -c -std=c99 -Wall -Wextra /tmp/a.c 04:45:33 ​/tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: return type defaults to ‘int’ [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: type of ‘i’ defaults to ‘int’ [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: suggest parentheses around ‘&&’ within ‘||’ [-Wparentheses] 04:46:01 um... also. I'm not a "he". 04:46:39 dianne: oerjan was making a joke because we were discussing how people guess pronouns 04:47:06 because I guessed "he" for "izabera" and I was wrong 04:47:18 heh it's np 04:47:40 * oerjan whistles a merry tune 04:48:08 oh, alright. I'm not really bothered, was just a bit confused. since, well, I didn't really see how, with my name... 04:48:16 I went a day without third-person pronouns once, just for fun 04:48:28 it's quite doable, I don't think anyone even noticed how weird the sentence structure gets sometimes 04:48:46 ais523: In Japanese they don't really have them 04:49:11 ais523: did you use a script to make sure not to slip up? 04:49:14 ais523, I use third-person pronouns exclusively. You might think it is quite odd, but I find it fun 04:49:35 oerjan: no, it was a spur-of-the-moment-thing 04:50:14 There's あの人 and あの奴 etc. but those are just phrases like "that person" or "that dude" 04:50:59 IIRC Hungarian doesn't have gendered third-person pronouns? which is why b_jonas' pronoun usage is so weird on occasion? 04:51:30 i haven't noticed anything wrong with b_jonas's usage... 04:52:03 but yes, there's only ő 04:52:12 finnish too 04:52:25 (hän iirc) 04:52:51 finnish merges them all into "it", right? 04:53:32 elliott: apparently, no, wiktionary claims it's only for humans 04:53:41 huh 04:53:44 oklopol lied to me, I guess 04:54:44 Oh, right there is 彼 and 彼女 but you don't hear people say it often, because they also mean "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" respectivley 04:55:29 Which is really weird, that a pronoun can shift in meaning like that 04:58:55 -!- barrucadu has joined. 04:59:08 http://shop.fsf.org/product/usb/ did you know they sell these? 04:59:44 Oooh, I did not 04:59:45 the english and swedish wiktionaries disagree on whether hungarian ő includes "it" 04:59:46 cute 04:59:56 "they" as in USB RNGs in general, or the FSF specifically? 05:00:08 well in this case fsf 05:00:21 i didn't know anyone sold these 05:00:24 I mean, I knew that USB RNG things were a thing, but not that the FSF sold them. 05:03:10 (norwegian/swedish/danish have four third person pronouns, because in addition to "natural" gendered pronouns, the _inanimate_ pronouns have _grammatical_ gender.) 05:03:19 http://shop.fsf.org/product/stuffed-baby-gnu/ 05:03:35 (well, singular) 05:03:51 stallman went to italy last september 05:03:57 he auctioned a stuffed baby gnu 05:04:01 have you recovered yet? 05:04:03 sold it for 80$ 05:04:05 Do they know speaking Italian? 05:04:09 http://shop.fsf.org/category/stuffed-gnu/ lots of things in the stuffed gnus category 05:04:19 zzo38: he spoke english 05:04:44 well he did that saint ignucius thing :D 05:04:54 it was fun 05:05:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgPyqyh4X4 05:05:05 If I want to go to Italy, I would want to learn speaking Italian though. 05:06:03 well it was just a trip for a conference o_o 05:06:29 i mean i'd like to visit japan eventually but i'm not going to spend 15 years learning japanese 05:07:55 that's not very much dedication, izabera 05:08:16 how will you understand what people are saying if you don't master japanese before going there 05:08:27 my dedication stops at watching subbed anime <.< 05:08:39 what's the plural of anime? 05:08:40 animes? 05:08:56 is anyone fansubbing literal real life japan 05:09:09 I too watched some sub anime such as Kaiji 05:09:18 I think it's "anime" if you don't want to be silly, "animes" if you do. 05:09:27 (I guess pedantically it'd be "anime series" or something in the first place anyway.) 05:09:48 hm that video was about twice as long as necessary. although more topical than expected. 05:10:00 I am (somewhat half-heartedly, I admit) trying to learn Italian for a trip I am planning later this year 05:10:02 Do you like to watch Akagi and Kaiji? 05:10:39 I watch anime without subtitles sometimes... I'm not good at it yet so I have to keep rewinding 05:10:46 * izabera teaches Taneb all her italian: pizza pasta mamma mia 05:11:00 izabera, that is not much italian 05:11:05 D: 05:11:05 izabera: bonjour 05:11:11 elliott: croissant 05:11:15 just kidding. that's spanish 05:11:19 elliott, that is less Italian 05:11:24 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 05:11:29 spanish is at least 14% italian. 05:11:33 cappuccino espresso latte macchiatto 05:11:59 elliott: if boily were here you'd be in for a mapole as well. 05:12:01 Buongiorno, donne e uomini (I think) 05:12:05 i'm sure. 05:12:05 elliott: actually 90% of the italians share that opinion 05:12:23 elliott, Italian and Spanish are at times mutually intelligible 05:12:32 izabera: I only say facts!! and true things 05:12:33 Taneb: that's very formal 05:12:41 Taneb: ciao ragazze e ragazzi 05:12:56 izabera, I am a very formal person, I sometimes even wear a tie 05:12:56 that's very informal 05:12:59 you lied, none of those words are pizza, pasta, or mamma. or mia. 05:13:09 omg ties are so 1800 05:13:44 I have never worn a tie in my entire life. 05:14:10 I have several ties, but I've mostly only worn them to operas 05:14:22 operas D: 05:14:23 and weddings I guess 05:14:42 well, on the good side, this channel makes me feel young 05:14:51 on the bad side, this channel makes me feel too young 05:15:01 Taneb is probably younger than you? 05:15:07 well idk maybe Taneb is old now 05:15:08 i'm 22 05:15:13 I am younger than yu 05:15:16 * elliott 19. 05:15:16 aww 05:15:17 *you 05:15:18 I am 20 05:15:20 fuck you :C 05:15:24 izabera: I was born may 10 1993 05:15:33 I am also younger than orin 05:15:35 ash holes ;-; 05:15:43 I'm sorry! 05:15:47 am I still the youngest person here? that would be weirder now than when I was 11 05:16:06 why have I been in this godforsaken channel for eight years 05:16:31 nothing better to do? 05:16:41 cheap internet? 05:16:49 free food? 05:16:50 elliott: maybe you're a supergenius 05:16:52 the former was true for a depressing number of years, more or less 05:16:58 you get free food here?? 05:17:10 elliott, there's a buffet by the mapole 05:17:19 I don't go near the mapole. 05:17:21 it's too dangerous. 05:17:21 izabera: 's ok i'm 44 05:17:30 *_* 05:17:37 thanks *.* 05:18:27 anyway I have been to like at least 8 operas 05:18:46 do they sell popcorn? 05:18:48 That is like, 8, more operas than I have been to 05:18:54 I went to an Operetta once 05:18:58 isn't cpressey older than you oerjan? 05:18:59 maybe not 05:19:10 Isn't monqy younger than you, elliott? 05:19:30 izabera: no, you're not allowed to eat during an opera, eating is noisy 05:19:47 bummer 05:19:47 elliott: i dunno... 05:20:03 Taneb: monqy was I think, yeah 05:21:16 if we're mentioning people who aren't _present_, i suspect Lil^WHe of a dozen names is also younger than elliott 05:21:56 maybe one of the people joining for esoterica stuff for like five seconds was, like, 60 05:21:59 am I helping, izabera 05:22:11 allot 05:22:25 elliott: don't you remember that COBOL guy? he was older than me 05:22:47 btiggins or something like that 05:22:56 wasn't Rugxlo or whatever his name was too 05:22:57 i don't know cobol but i know sed and sed is older :( 05:23:00 (with different actual letters) 05:23:28 sed older than COBOL? i'm skeptical. 05:23:29 just saying but I'm actually an immortal being who has been alive for ten thousand years and you're all whippersnappers 05:23:40 elliott, you too? 05:23:43 sed is the oldest language on unix 05:23:43 it's even older than unix actually 05:23:44 I thought I was the only one! 05:23:50 Taneb: get off my turf. 05:24:00 izabera, COBOL is, too 05:24:08 oh 05:24:14 COBOL dates to 1959 05:24:26 And is considerably older than sed 05:24:32 ok o_o 05:24:34 sorry then 05:24:46 that's like paleo-it 05:25:10 do you know lisp 05:25:13 that's from 1958 theoretically 05:25:33 only emacs users do 05:25:34 kind of like saying you know BCPL because you know C though 05:25:34 and i'm not 05:25:40 I use vim and know lisp :( 05:25:49 elliott, there's a buffet by the mapole <-- beware of the poutine 05:26:12 oerjan, what about the gazspacho? 05:26:41 okay sometimes I use emacs but rarely 05:27:02 i can C-x C-c 05:27:02 I know a little lisp but I am not very good at it 05:27:14 Ah, C-x C-c. the :wq of emacs 05:27:27 not sure if it's also w 05:28:10 it isn't 05:28:20 Taneb: that tastes szupérb 05:29:39 Taneb: i don't understand why they teach :wq instead of :x 05:29:51 or :xa 05:29:51 oerjan, I don't use vim, I am afraid 05:30:29 is :x like ZZ 05:30:52 if you guys use bash and its vi mode, you may like this 05:30:53 if shopt -oq vi; then 05:30:55 alias :{x,{,w}q}{,a}=exit :e=vim :h=man info='info --vi-keys' 05:30:58 fi 05:31:29 so that you can type :wq in your shell to exit 05:31:30 do you ever :wqa bash as opposed to just :qing it 05:31:31 elliott: ah indeed 05:31:46 elliott: actually _often_ 05:32:15 it's just a musclar reflex at this point 05:32:20 fair enough 05:33:08 http://shop.fsf.org/product/gnu-emacs-reference-mugs/ http://shop.fsf.org/product/signed-rms-photo-print/ 05:39:53 I am not one million years old 05:43:08 now I'm wondering if C-x C-c works in bash 05:43:11 it knows a lot of Emacs bindings 05:43:51 zzo38, very few people are 05:43:58 None, at a guess 05:45:18 -!- mbrcknl_ has joined. 05:46:02 binding C-c in bash is kinda hard since stty gets in the way 05:46:08 -!- edwardk_ has joined. 05:48:58 this does the job... stty intr ''; bind -x '"\C-x\C-c":exit' 05:49:21 i can't make it work without unsetting it for stty :\ 05:50:13 Did you ever win a Ig Nobel prize for proving that it is impossible to use complex numbers in accounting? 05:50:36 ...not yet 05:52:06 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 05:52:09 -!- mbrcknl has quit (*.net *.split). 05:52:09 -!- skarn has quit (*.net *.split). 05:52:10 -!- edwardk has quit (*.net *.split). 05:52:10 -!- skarn_ has joined. 05:53:57 but soon? 05:54:10 eventually 05:54:19 -!- mbrcknl_ has changed nick to mbrcknl. 05:55:16 right after you learn japanese 05:55:21 I had proven such thing, but now I forgot how. Nevertheless it isn't what I was trying to do; I was trying to figure out how to use complex numbers in accounting, but instead I concluded it is impossible and also invented matrix accounting too due to that. It is possible to try to make one thing but you can make something else instead. 05:55:31 -!- edwardk_ has changed nick to edwardk. 06:25:16 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:31:33 -!- zadock has joined. 06:49:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:59:06 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:59:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:00:34 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42365&oldid=42364 * 0x0dea * (+327) Add infinite loop example 07:26:00 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:40:56 "13 Pop a number and skip ahead n (actually n+1) words if the number is zero." 07:41:02 so... what n? 07:42:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:42:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:42:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:43:30 off by one horror 07:44:40 that too 07:44:53 but what is n if it's not "the number" 07:46:26 the one thing i can think of is that possibly he means the +1 to be the "normal" word increment after any instruction 07:47:07 * oerjan paranoidly checks author name, whew looks male 07:47:18 yeah, but as i said: that's not what bothers me 07:47:28 oh 07:47:35 i don't get what the hell n is 07:47:59 if n is in fact "the number", 13 is just a nop 07:48:22 oh hm 07:48:25 "Note that the commands corresponding to values 5, 13, 14, 15, and 16 each read an extra word and use it as a parameter (then skip it)." 07:48:37 ah 07:48:48 maybe it's that skip that's the +1, then 07:50:45 hm "but it ought to be able to simulate any Push-down automaton" 07:51:45 i'm suspicious that it might not be able to do sufficiently complicated flow control because the size limits also affect jump distance 07:52:47 what size limit 07:53:23 well in this case, the max scrabble score, i guess 07:54:00 the examples mad3 me think you could do arbitrary long words 07:54:35 but longer programs might not quite look like real sentences 07:54:55 hm the interpreter doesn't enforce dictionary words 07:55:09 but the examples are, aren't they? 07:55:38 what you _could_ do is jumping backwards to a position that jumps backwards 07:56:26 you just have to jump over them if you read forward 07:56:46 yes, but you'd get a traffic jam, essentially, if you had too many paths 07:57:45 indeed 07:58:01 but i am not quite sure if this is really not tc 07:58:26 tc it is not. there is no infinite memory other than the stack. 07:58:40 the question is whether you can get all pushdown automata. 07:58:54 (deterministic) 07:59:13 8 is , and 9 is .; 5 1 7 is + and 5 1 10 is - 07:59:54 [ and ] _should_ be able to translate into 13-16 07:59:54 myname: |ill-formed number 08:00:03 the problem is > and < 08:00:16 if you had a second stack, it could be tc 08:00:31 oh for the other size limit, "and since data items are finite (integers from 0 to 255)" 08:00:58 well, that holds true to bf too, doesn't it? 08:01:31 yes in many versions 08:01:58 but the thing is, without a cell limit you don't need unlimited number of cells 08:02:07 isn't .,+-[] enough for a push-down automaton? 08:03:06 but you don't have general [] if you don't have arbitrary long words 08:03:14 if you do, then probably. 08:06:01 http://cliffle.com/esoterica/beatnik.html looks a bit different from the esolang description 08:06:31 and explains your original question clearly 08:08:08 i like the second paragraph 08:14:37 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:22:10 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 08:22:26 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42366&oldid=42365 * Oerjan * (+189) /* Computational class */ Quibble on PDA 09:00:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:06:13 -!- roman2 has joined. 09:06:20 fnord morning everybody 09:07:09 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:11:38 ais523: in ayacc, consider making it possible to have multiple start symbols to choose from when you start the parser, at least in the non-compatibility interface? I believe currently you have to emulate that by injecting an extra terminal symbol at the start from the tokenizer, which is fine for theory but ugly. 09:12:00 it shouldn't be too hard to implement, at least 09:12:15 yep 09:12:31 the problem is that that would require some sort of syntax extension, or else to compile all possible start symbols 09:13:01 the syntax extension could be a new declaration type 09:13:15 or even just multiple copies of %start declarations 09:13:24 hmm no, it's not so easy 09:13:39 it's not clear how you'd decide from them in the C entrance interface 09:16:45 of course, all these extra features are less important. the most important thing is that ayacc should always generate correct output, even for unusual grammars. 09:18:00 -!- zadock has joined. 09:18:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:18:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:20:28 if it can do that, than this will probably already be worth to use over bison 09:20:36 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ/Esolangs]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42367&oldid=22963 * Rdococ * (+129) Updated user page. 09:22:45 ais523: oh by the way, how will the license of this work? if I have a constant grammar, can I put the C code output under public domain? 09:23:11 and is the generated C code output portable, not depending on specifics of the system, so this can be done usefully? 09:23:32 b_jonas: unlike flex, the output is going to be direct-coded and have hardly any verbatim copies from the input file 09:23:36 err, unlike bison 09:23:44 so the output will probably be licensed the same way as the input 09:23:50 good 09:24:37 (even if it does have verbatim copies from a template, that template could be in public domain while ayacc as a whole is licensed differently. that's how autotools works I think.) 09:25:36 -!- hjulle has joined. 09:25:45 autotools works vaguely like that but unnecessarily complicated, I think 09:29:24 07:54 < elliott> finnish merges them all into "it", right? ← well, kinda. there's hän which is only for humans and se which is for everything 09:29:42 generally using se for humans is less formal 09:34:24 incidentally, normal parsing theory seems to make a distinction between shift actions and goto actions 09:34:33 I consider them to be the same, and they are in many cases 09:34:40 but added a few of my own for optimization purposes 09:34:50 shift_and_reduce actions, degenerate reduce actions, cast actions 09:35:19 and indirect actions, which basically just combine the common code of two states that are almost but not quite identical 09:35:37 wow, so many optimizations 09:35:48 now you'll need a big testsuite for this, which isn't easy 09:37:18 I'm using C-INTERCAL ;-) 09:37:35 also, it seems that there's a name for the sort of implementation I'm using: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_ascent_parser 09:37:48 but the optimizations make it look less messy than what's shown there 09:38:18 oh, C-intercal is a nice idea 09:38:34 INTERCAL is a pain to parse 09:38:39 so it makes for a good parser testsuite 09:38:50 um yes, but some of that pain is in the lexer, isn't it? 09:38:57 or the non-yacc part in general 09:40:12 hardly any 09:40:32 the only help the grammar needs from the lexer is to identify whether a spark/ears is necessarily opening, or could be closing 09:41:43 (in the case of "could be closing", it's assumed that it isn't ever opening; this is the hack that removes ambiguity and makes the language LALR(1) in the first place, and it's mentioned in the INTERCAL-72 manual) 09:42:41 don't you have to disambiguate between overlapping keywords like DO NOT GIVE UPLEASE ,3 <- #0 09:43:31 possibly technically we have to, but we don't currently 09:46:01 oh, btw, here's a sample warning message: 09:46:07 ayacc: warning: shift/reduce conflict on symbol ELSE at t.y line 8 09:46:08 ayacc: info: conflict is reached after, e.g., IF expr THEN IF expr THEN stmt . ELSE 09:46:10 ayacc: info: to resolve the conflict: specify a precedence for ELSE and THEN 09:46:18 so much better than bison :-) 09:46:45 nice 09:46:48 indeed much better 09:46:57 [wiki] [[Folder]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42368 * Rdococ * (+1274) New esolang! 09:47:10 does posix yacc or bison or ayacc guarantee to not read the lookahead token if you can decide which rule to run without the lookahead? 09:47:42 the example is sometimes badly wrong in the case of a reduce/reduce conflict, but that's because due to deficiencies of LALR(1), sometimes there is no example and the conflict's completely spurious 09:48:05 yeah 09:48:15 and yes, there's a guarantee to not read into the lookahead token if the current state unconditionally reduces and always by the same rule 09:48:18 that's when the grammar is LR(1) but not LALR(1) 09:48:20 although I'm optimizing those states out entirely 09:48:24 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ/Esolangs]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42369&oldid=42367 * Rdococ * (-46) 09:48:28 that's what a shift_then_reduce action is for 09:48:44 because you aren't reading the lookahead token anyway, no need to actually run the logic of the state in question 09:48:47 ais523: good, but guarantee in what? posix yacc too, or only ayacc? 09:48:52 guarantee in posix yacc 09:48:56 ok 09:49:51 took me a while to find where it says that (it's near the end), but it does 09:50:02 I assume that guarantee exists because it's practically useful 09:50:06 because it does make things less consistent 09:50:27 you'd think rules would prefer to know that the lookahead token had always been read, rather than sometimes being read and sometimes not 09:50:38 yes, it's practically useful, both for reading interactive input, and for crazy stuff like that seeking tokenizer I've shown yesterday 09:50:40 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42370&oldid=40356 * Rdococ * (+121) 09:50:54 (actually just a head seeking in the tokenized stream) 09:51:08 and no, I wouldn't prefer it always read 09:51:29 (that would be even worse in that hypothetical LALR(2) mode) 09:51:34 -!- rdococ has joined. 09:51:50 indeed 09:51:55 that would just lead to kludges like emitting two tokens when a newline is read interactively 09:52:54 hi guys 09:55:10 uh... I have an article about an esolang -- it explains everything while being a really short stub... what should I do? 09:56:18 post it anyway and put {{stub}} at the start 09:56:32 unless the esolang is the sort of esolang that's impossible to spend more than a couple of sentences describing 09:56:33 okay 09:56:38 in which case it should probably be on the joke languages list 09:57:06 it's possible to program in, it's equivalent to a finite state automaton. However, it does only take a couple of sentences to describe it. 09:57:19 should I add it to the joke language list anyway? 09:57:35 I'm pretty sure 'joke' means something other than just 'really short stub'... 09:57:43 anyway, I'm rambling now, thanks 09:58:13 if it's possible to program in, it's not a joke 09:58:14 rdococ: maybe add some example programs to make it longer? 09:58:20 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42371&oldid=42368 * Rdococ * (+9) 09:58:22 or well, if it's possible to program in /and/ possible to implement 09:58:42 it's a bit like Text in the fact it's already implemented. 09:58:42 oh yeah, add an implementation too 09:58:44 note that this is sufficient to not be a joke, but not necessary, some non-joke languages would be hard or impossible to program in 09:58:48 or to implement 09:59:36 you know Text, where there are already programs to interpret it? well my esolang is like that, but it's got better computation power. 09:59:51 *not saying it's better, I should've reworded that 10:00:03 Text probably counts as a joke 10:00:31 rdococ: then add links to implementations to the description of the language 10:00:32 I don't think mine is a joke... not too much of one, anyway 10:01:34 b_jonas: but the point is, everyone already has an implementation - the language's like Text in that way 10:02:00 Text -> most OSes already have an implementation. Folder -> same thing. 10:04:50 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42372&oldid=42366 * Oerjan * (-175) I convinced myself I was wrong about unlimited word length being needed 10:16:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:16:58 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 10:17:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:17:30 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42373&oldid=42371 * Rdococ * (+10) Some people have to double-click to open stuff, so 'any user can click one of the transitions' is technically incorrect and might cause confusion. 10:18:31 that language works much better with symlinks/junctions 10:19:08 at that point, it's basically just a funky encoding for an FSM, or is it a PDA? 10:19:56 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 10:20:04 rdococ: actually this is much more complex than it looks 10:20:31 because symlinks don't work quite the same way as shortcuts, and I think it may make a difference to computational power 10:20:46 to be honest, I've never heard of symlinks. 10:20:53 but continue, I'm intrigued. 10:21:17 well, a "shortcut" isn't a filesystem feature, it's a feature of the Windows graphical shell 10:21:49 and when you follow a shortcut, Explorer opens up a specific file or directory or other shell object for you (the internal name is "shell links") 10:22:08 a symlink, meanwhile, is a filesystem feature, it basically forms an asymmetrical alias 10:22:42 ais523: why is it a difference in computational power; and the shell can treat symlinks in at least two ways in some operations I think 10:23:21 e.g. if I create a symlink "a" pointing at "../b/c" in "/d/e", then "/d/e/a" is a different name for the same file as "/d/b/c" 10:23:31 however, the two names are treated as distinct for some purposes 10:23:50 and knowing what those purposes are is probably important to know if this is an FSM or PDA, and I can't remember offhnad 10:24:16 b_jonas: basically, you can't construct unboundedly long paths with shortcuts 10:24:19 you can with symlinks 10:24:34 so the PDAness is based on whether there's some way to /read/ the path using only the basic operation of Folder 10:25:18 or, I mean, it's above FSM because you can just use shortcuts to .. to do bracket matching 10:25:27 but I'm not sure if you get an actual PDA stack, or just a coutner 10:25:36 bracket matching? 10:25:40 I'm leaning towards PDA at this point 10:25:54 rdococ: given a string consisting only of ( and ) characters, determine whether they match correctly 10:26:05 an FSM can't do that, but it's trivial for almost any PDA implementation 10:26:13 so you're saying my esolang could be a PDA instead of an FSM? 10:26:16 yep 10:26:19 but it may depend on the oS 10:26:21 *OS 10:26:27 well this is interesting 10:26:36 proving languages that people think are FSMs are actually PDAs is one of my hobbies 10:26:42 e.g. Keymaker-Splinter 10:27:03 are you entirely sure, or is it going to be controversial? 10:27:12 hehe “< ais523> proving languages that people think are FSMs are actually PDAs is one of my hobbies” 10:27:21 can we add this to a quotation bot? 10:27:32 if you want to 10:27:35 I don't see why it would be a PDA though 10:27:37 rdococ: I'm not 100% sure 10:27:53 I currently think it's more than 50% likely but can't be much more confident than that 10:28:09 but this is mostly based on deficiencies in my understanding of symlinks, rather than in my understanding of PDAs 10:28:16 I don't think languages can be FSMs or PDAs. They can be capable of expressing FSMs or PDAs, sure, but a language is not a program 10:28:20 directory hardlinks add an extra layer of complication 10:28:29 Taneb: I elided "equivalent in power to" 10:28:30 sorry 10:29:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:29:43 what if I use shortcuts only? 10:29:47 but directory hardlinks shouldn't exist 10:30:09 wait, you said... 10:30:11 okay 10:32:47 ais523: what's your username on the wiki? I want to credit you on the talk page 10:33:11 ah, found it 10:34:31 I still don't see how it could be more powerful than a fsm. 10:34:31 should I call you a he or a she? 10:35:03 Speaking of symlink-related computing, http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/symlinks/index.php 10:35:05 i was about to say 'his name is alex, so...' and then i realised that doesn't help at all 10:35:16 if it could do the stuff a PDA can do, I wonder if it could combine the computational power of both. 10:35:54 from what I think, he might be male. But maybe that's just a cultural bias, and I don't really mind. 10:36:08 maybe I should use the singular 'they' 10:38:06 uh... tell me 10:38:21 he's very definitely male, though 10:38:33 okay, I'll trust you 10:40:06 [wiki] [[Talk:Folder]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42374 * Rdococ * (+376) My esolang is more interesting now, I guess...? 10:43:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Something). 10:45:15 [wiki] [[Folder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42375&oldid=42373 * Rdococ * (+586) Updated definition a bit, updated computational class. 10:46:09 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42376&oldid=42375 * Rdococ * (+0) Fixed incorrect link. 10:47:28 rdococ: I tend not to use gendered pronouns when talking about myself in the third person 10:47:40 but yes, my gender is possibly too well-known by now 10:48:48 usually I'm not that fussed about revealing my gender... 10:49:47 when do you talk about yourself in third person? writing a cv or something? 10:50:01 * ais523 talks about themself in the third person 10:50:35 oh, so self-referencing statements 10:50:54 "talking about myself" tends to be self-referencing. 10:53:07 wait... can't you add flags to a shortcut link like -r for shutdown - atleast in windows? 10:54:10 (ik it's not limited to shortcuts, but it sounds interesting) 10:54:56 rdococ: you can, because Windows shortcuts are kind-of complex 10:55:01 and badly designed in many ways, too 10:55:47 well, they're sort of a carry-on from windows 95, and in some ways maybe even from windows 3.1 10:55:58 they probably made sense back then 10:56:03 huh... does that add any extra computational power or can you just emulate the behavior in an FSA? 10:56:29 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:57:07 -!- nszceta has joined. 11:01:21 I still don't know what 'use shortcuts to do bracket matching' means 11:05:27 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:09:41 -!- rdococ has joined. 11:12:48 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:13:20 rdococ: maybe set your text editor up to automatically insert a matching ')' after the cursor when you type '(' 11:13:58 ? 11:14:38 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 11:15:22 why? 11:18:05 I don't know that would be a shortcut 11:20:02 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42377&oldid=42376 * Rdococ * (-387) Simplified explanation a little 11:20:30 huh? chrome messed up on me, so I can't see the chat history 11:20:42 still don't know what you mean 11:21:52 anyway, do you know if my programming language is a FSA or a PDA? 11:25:35 -!- zadock has joined. 11:36:03 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:44:14 Any tips on draining an ocean 11:45:59 orin: there is no spoon 11:46:05 I guess I need to have as much drain bandwidth as there is water coming in? 11:46:26 is this dwarf fortress? 11:46:33 orin: don't rush it, start slowly, then speed up but not much 11:47:16 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 11:47:33 -!- AndoDaan has left. 11:47:50 Yeah in DF. 11:48:15 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 11:48:19 I'm trrying to drain an underground ocean to get at some rare minerals 11:48:34 -!- zadock has joined. 11:52:12 -!- yump has joined. 11:53:43 -!- yump has quit (Client Quit). 11:57:43 orin, cavern lakes fill from any open tiles at the edge of the map 11:57:54 draining them entirely is very hard and will kill your fps 11:58:14 probably the most practical way of making an area accessible is to pour magma over it 11:59:18 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:00:58 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:01:57 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:09:45 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42378&oldid=42362 * SuperJedi224 * (+263) 12:12:23 -!- zadock has joined. 12:14:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 12:21:00 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42379&oldid=42377 * Rdococ * (-35) Not sure, with the requirements and specifications, that the argument for PDA holds. However, there's still discussion. 12:21:56 [wiki] [[Talk:Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42380&oldid=42374 * Rdococ * (+17) 12:21:57 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:25:30 [wiki] [[Talk:Folder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42381&oldid=42380 * Rdococ * (-137) Rewritten the talk message 12:27:23 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42382&oldid=42379 * Rdococ * (+0) capitalized 'F' in 'Folder program' and 'Folder programming language' 12:33:06 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42383&oldid=42382 * Rdococ * (+92) Changes to the computational class section 12:34:00 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42384&oldid=42383 * Rdococ * (+0) Minor change to the link to the talk page. 12:34:38 -!- zadock has joined. 12:46:12 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:50:15 “probably the most practical way of making an area accessible is to pour magma over it” -- hehe, sounds strange 12:57:44 -!- izabera has changed nick to greybera. 12:58:47 -!- zadock has joined. 13:02:21 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:02:51 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:09:16 b_jonas: dwarf fortress? 13:10:18 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:11:10 -!- Melvar has joined. 13:11:41 -!- idris-bot has joined. 13:12:50 -!- greybera has changed nick to izabera. 13:17:47 !!science!! 13:18:57 "The Black Buoy has been painted yellow to avoid collisions." 13:19:28 Still called the Black Buoy, apparently. 13:20:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:20:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:23:20 Well, it's going well so far. I haven't got down to magma yet, so I'm digging large width drainage channels 13:24:41 Later if I get magma, I'll pour it over the edges where the water comes in, so I can excavate more 13:27:09 So far some of the seabed is at 1-2 13:29:58 The next one I'm opening is 15 squares wide 13:32:22 -!- dianne has joined. 13:36:44 (that is, the entring wter is 15 wide, so the drain needs to be nearby and 15 wide) 13:38:42 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 13:39:53 -!- nszceta has joined. 13:42:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:43:39 I guess if magma is !!SCIENCE!! then what I'm doing is !!ENGINEERING!! 13:49:16 uhm... 13:49:47 Anyway if all goes well I'll soon have acess to a green ore called "garnierite" which I assume can be smelted into shampoo 13:55:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:59:57 http://snag.gy/gHJOc.jpg 14:01:55 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42385&oldid=41658 * Esowiki201529A * (+41) /* vandalismScript */ new section 14:04:00 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42386&oldid=42385 * Esowiki201529A * (+45) /* vandalismScript */ 14:08:02 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42387&oldid=42386 * 101.226.125.113 * (+150) /* VandalismScript */ 14:11:54 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42388&oldid=42387 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) /* Hello, World */ 14:17:02 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42389&oldid=42388 * Esowiki201529A * (+36) /* VandalismScript */ 14:22:44 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42390&oldid=42389 * Esowiki201529A * (+28) /* Cat Program */ 14:26:56 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42391&oldid=42390 * Esowiki201529A * (+14) /* Hello, World! */ 14:36:45 [wiki] [[Folder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42392&oldid=42384 * Esowiki201529A * (-1528) 命名冲突 14:40:03 [wiki] [[Folder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42393&oldid=42392 * Esowiki201529A * (+1528) Undo revision 42392 by [[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]] ([[User talk:Esowiki201529A|talk]]) 14:49:52 -!- bixnode has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:53:56 -!- EVANGELIS has joined. 14:55:31 mk 14:56:01 :-$ 14:57:45 -!- EVANGELIS has left. 15:10:22 -!- codeitagile has joined. 15:40:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:52:58 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:21:45 [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42394&oldid=42339 * 0x0dea * (+236) Add Ruby interpreter 16:35:54 Forensic I.T.! My mother lost a ring, so I pointed out we can tell when she lost it by looking at her numreous facebook pictures 16:38:22 !!! wut, some vandal deleted my article and put it back? 16:41:23 I translated the weird comment on the person that deleted the stuff on my article. Translated, it's "Naming conflicts"... Was he meaning to make a language called 'Folder' too?! 16:47:39 I wouldn't worry about it... maybe it was a mistake 16:50:15 esowiki201529a makes a lot of weird edits 16:50:41 I'm not sure what they're doing. 16:51:03 they don't seem to be an obvious vandal. maybe just a non-native speaker with some weird ideas about the wiki >_> 16:51:33 what's that emote at the end for?! 16:51:51 it's not his fault he's a foreign speaker 16:52:00 I didn't mean to imply that, sorry. 16:52:11 okay 16:52:41 it was more a >_> of "they tried to rename my language out of the blue by editing the page and moving it once" :P 16:53:38 (I also didn't think that they might be a non-native speaker before that edit, since all their previous edits were in English if anything.) 16:54:35 huh... 16:57:51 I suspect the "naming conflict" thing was pointing out that there was already a language called "Folder", anyway. 16:57:54 not that that's a problem 16:58:07 there was? 16:59:04 I don't think there's a uniqueness requirement for esolang names. 16:59:18 oh right... 'Folders'... 16:59:33 no problem about that 16:59:59 they're pretty different... but this is interestin 17:00:01 g 17:00:52 er, "Folders", sorry. 17:00:54 I meant to type that. 17:04:45 well that's certainly interesting 17:09:20 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42395&oldid=42393 * Rdococ * (+24) added distinguish tag because of naming conflicts 17:11:10 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42396&oldid=42395 * Rdococ * (+19) So there's no distinguish tag... 17:15:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:15:50 -!- codeitagile has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:16:42 uh... is that 'not to be confused with' necessary? 17:21:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:22:16 [wiki] [[POGAACK]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42397&oldid=41281 * 92.81.166.144 * (+31) 17:29:30 probably not 17:29:38 it doesn't hurt and might be useful but if you really don't want it there you can remove it 17:30:03 I guess it could be confusing because they both have broadly similar concepts. 17:32:34 true 17:35:20 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42398&oldid=42396 * Rdococ * (-43) 17:35:38 probably should've done some kind of undo function 17:35:47 if there is one, but nevermind 17:36:52 I have an idea... File! 17:38:49 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 17:58:29 hmm 18:03:04 History book titles from the future 18:04:05 Folder is such an easy programming language... now I just need a hard one 18:04:09 ``Trigger Warning, Don't like don't look: The subjective reality of the early 2000s 18:04:39 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `Trigger: not found 18:05:22 God damn it those are opening quotes not... agh 18:05:27 I wonder, could a language based on algebra and logic be turing complete - or even an unknown computational class? 18:05:50 Uh, Is prolog turing complete, I forget 18:06:12 I think so, because I read somewhere datalog was supposed not to be 18:06:42 'pure' prolog, whatever that would mean, yes 18:08:58 !! I know! functional bf? 18:08:58 How exciting! 18:08:58 thanks egobot 18:09:41 -!- nszceta has joined. 18:14:24 -!- variable has joined. 18:16:12 what other definitions of programming languages could already be interpreted by applications everyone has? 18:17:25 wait... if you can go on hyperlinks to go to other web pages, could you put links to other program states in a program state written as a .html file?! 18:18:11 so a folder containing HTML files can simulate an FSA. 18:18:26 even if it has no JS, or CSS, etc. 18:18:34 there are like ten languages identical to https://esolangs.org/wiki/Text on the wiki 18:18:37 if you count that 18:18:58 can you show me one 18:19:05 I just did; the one I linked. :p 18:19:08 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Wiki_Cyclic_Tag is more interesting 18:28:18 [wiki] [[Object oriented thue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42399&oldid=40557 * 4D enthusiast * (+263) /* stdio */ added HexOutput & HexInput classes 18:29:33 [wiki] [[Object oriented thue]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42400&oldid=42399 * 4D enthusiast * (+0) /* stdtime */ corrected spelling of "hexadecimal" 18:56:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:09:54 -!- GeekDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:14:04 [wiki] [[Talk:Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42401&oldid=42381 * Rdococ * (+296) updated discuss page... why did nobody post here 19:24:58 can i ask a stupid question about brainfuck? 19:25:14 give it a shot and we'll see 19:25:22 izabera: that was an excellent try 19:25:28 lol 19:26:00 well i'm trying to learn it, just what happens when you move the pointer before the 0th cell? 19:26:22 is the tape supposed to be infinite in both directions? 19:26:37 ah. lovely undefined behavior 19:26:57 originally, the tape was onesided. but it depends on the implementation. 19:27:27 I wonder if that makes a difference in the computational class of bf 19:28:17 well what's the most common implementation? 19:28:24 rdococ: It's Turing-complete either way (assuming an infinite tape). 19:28:38 are you sure it's infinite, or do you mean unbounded? 19:29:25 it would be interesting to see a programming language using infinite tape, such that there's an address 'infinity' 19:29:37 izabera: I would treat it as an error 19:29:41 I think that is the usual behaviour, too. 19:29:50 ok thankies 19:30:01 "right-infinite tape, 8-bit values in cells, 0 on EOF" is what I would consider most standard, personally 19:30:04 izabera: I believe most commonly stepping off the tape to the left is either an error, or does really funny things (the implementation used on the anagol site puts input data there...) 19:30:14 rdococ: I meant infinite 19:30:16 izabera: in some implementations going < lets you access your own source code and modify it(!!) 19:30:26 yeah, like int-e said. 19:30:30 rdococ: that's fine, because the Turing machine is a theoretical construction. 19:30:50 (I'm not sure if the modifications actually take effect, but I think they do.) 19:31:49 hmm 19:32:21 would it be ok for an implementation to only have 2**63-1 cells? 19:32:38 it wouldn't be TC but it'd be fine yes 19:32:40 (the unbounded/infinite distinction is a silly computer science one; it's silly because in practice, one still runs into address space limits with things of "unbounded" size.) 19:32:42 the original only had 30k cells 19:33:01 not like there's many people with more than 64 bits of addressable memory 19:33:05 hmm 19:33:11 (current CPUs can't even address that much if they wanted to) 19:33:30 I wonder if there's such thing as an infinite state automaton, whether it's turing complete or not 19:34:30 a turing machine :p 19:35:23 you would use regular expressions to define an infinite number of states, and then you could use those regexp-caught areas to transition to another one of many states 19:37:15 e.g. string [x] --- concatenate [y] ---> string [x][y] where [x] and [y] are wildcards 19:37:24 Hmm, 48 bits addresses everywhere. (Even ATA addresses 512 byte blocks with 48 bit addresses) 19:37:50 so if the state was 'string derp', going 'concatenate herp' would change the state to 'string derpherp'. 19:39:39 izabera: note that if you had a program which went > 2^63-ish times and then did some random stuff it'd "only" take ~97 years to run 19:39:49 but since it wouldn't store anything in the cells on the way technically you could run it on a normal machine 19:40:02 (e.g., one that uses a hash table to store the tape sparsely, omitting 0s) 19:40:24 so there are programs which address a cell past 2^63 without requiring that much addressable memory that we can feasibly run today if we really, really want to 19:40:24 i'm writing an interpreter to learn it 19:40:27 in bash 19:40:28 (this is beyond irrelevant) 19:40:39 (~97 years assuming we can move right on the tape at 3 GHz) 19:40:52 okay well what about all the people who want to spend 100 years running a useless brainfuck program using bash, izabera. :( 19:41:10 fuck them \o/ 19:41:11 | 19:41:11 >\ 19:41:40 my enterprise will not be investing in your software product 19:45:53 true, even bitcoins might be a better investment than that... 19:46:12 it would be interesting to see a programming language using infinite tape, such that there's an address 'infinity' 19:46:28 easy enough, the interesting part is how you get to infinity 19:47:03 "^ -- change address to omega^" 19:47:16 2*omega 19:47:58 think of it like having unboundedly many unbounded tapes - one starts from 1, another starts from omega, another starts from 2omega^3. 19:48:10 (the real problem is that with no way of going down, the operation amounts to just clearing the tape) 19:48:40 you could change address to /omega 19:49:12 so you'd have omega+1, 3omega, 65omega+23, etc. I don't know about exponents though. 19:49:31 in other words, 2d tape 19:49:36 (bitcoins, I'm somewhat amazed that the hashing rate is not dropping. oh well...) 19:50:02 hmm 19:50:08 that gave me an idea 19:50:43 if a machine is a feedback system, user --input--> machine --output--> user, why not describe it like that 19:51:14 that could be like an equation or something: y = 3x^2 -- the user puts in a number x, and comes out 3x^2 19:51:15 elliott, in the moving right 2^63 times while doing nothing scenario, if you're going to admit hashmaps for tape storage you have to allow for optimisation too 19:51:35 so it's probably feasible to do it on a modern machine 19:51:42 Phantom_Hoover: sure, but then you get into sticky details of how to actually write a program that does that 19:51:46 without it being too big to reasonably store 19:51:56 I guess it wouldn't be that hard 19:52:06 but you need to leave a trail of 0s behind 19:52:22 (basically you wil lneed enough memory to store a 63-bit integer where you are, I guess) 19:52:31 but then you're doing fancy stuff and it's harder to optimise away 19:52:39 look. let me be a pedant in peace ;_; 19:53:05 hmm, leaving a trail of 0s behind isn't so easy... +[->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+] 19:53:25 (note loop unrolling for extra efficiency) 19:53:33 lol extra 19:59:18 int-e: how will that stop à 2^63? 20:01:28 [wiki] [[Pyth]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42402&oldid=42290 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) 20:01:51 will you beta test my interpreter when it's ready? 20:05:34 Koen_: why would it stop? 20:15:58 elliott: actually we may have to be careful, because state-of-the-art optimizing brainfuck compilers will turn sequences of > signs into a single addition instruction. 20:16:11 int-e: hahaha 20:16:16 well they also use finite tapes I think 20:16:36 izabera: there are some good test programs like mandelbrot.b you can use to test it 20:16:42 (will probably be sloooow in a bash interpreter) 20:16:49 I think there are some programs that specifically try to test edge-cases, not sure though 20:23:05 what happens if i have [ but no ] ? 20:23:22 and vice versa 20:23:45 well the program shouldn't compile 20:24:04 oh, you're making an interpreter 20:24:21 well, you should probably get a runtime error, then 20:24:37 unless there's some preprocessing before the actual interpreting 20:25:36 you could also implement some non-error behaviour in this case, for instance assume there are an unlimited amount of virtual [ at the beginning of the program and ] at the end, to match the unmatched brackets in the program 20:25:46 but I don't think any brainfuck interpreter does that 20:26:08 ok 20:26:10 thanks 20:27:03 * int-e knows implementations where an extra ] terminates the program 20:27:29 Another way is if there is an extra ] then the first extra ] it will treat the rest as input to the program, at the end of the file then it starts reading in the actual input instead. 20:27:44 and now that I think about it, missing ] might crash the thing. 20:28:11 (If the program uses the same input stream then the part after ] is the actual input.) 20:28:25 int-e: well, symmetrically, an extra [ should start the program again 20:30:37 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:32:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:36:22 are the cells supposed to be chars? 20:36:44 let me rephrase that: does [ loop if the current value is 256? 20:42:10 [wiki] [[Folder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42403&oldid=42398 * Rdococ * (-1) /* Interpreter */ 20:42:48 izabera: do whatever seems convenient. 20:43:08 it's fine either way, just tell me what most other implementations do 20:43:43 I don't know. Originally they were chars, but there are plenty of implementations using int, and some using unbounded natural numbers... 20:44:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:46:05 izabera: they are usually 0-255 20:46:13 or -128 to 127, whichever interpretation you prefer (they are equivalent) 20:46:23 they usually wrap on overflow and underflow 20:46:29 though plenty of implementations have bignum cells with no limit 20:46:41 and some rarer ones have 16-bit or 32-bit etc., or 8-bit but under/overflow is an error 20:46:54 8-bit wrapping is the most "classic" though 20:46:58 ok 20:47:19 the strictest implementation I've seen made decrementing 0 and incrementing 255 errors. (some brainfuck golf competition) 20:47:26 generally if you have 8-bit wrapping cells, a right-infinite tape, and , sets the cell to 0 on EOF, then you should be able to run pretty much any program people have written unless they're weirdos 20:48:07 but if you're writing a program and want to be really portable and boring, it's probably best to assume that cells are 0-255 and you can't go outside that, and that , either sets to 0 or does no change on EOF 20:48:16 (eith they idea that this is the least common denominator of virtually all existing implementations) 20:49:41 Oh yes, the three flavors of EOF behavior. 20:49:52 (the third is -1 on EOF) 20:50:48 * int-e wants a 9 bit Brainfuck (so that -1 can be distinguished from 255). 20:54:11 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:54:15 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:56:51 int-e: yeah, but you can't be portable to both -1 and 0 on EOF, I don't think 20:56:55 or, I guess you can? 20:56:59 zero it and then check for 0 or -1 20:57:04 but of course you rule out both 0 and 255 bytes in the input 20:57:24 what's the easiest way to loop while not 0 or -1 20:57:44 ,[-[+.[-],]]? 21:02:48 no, that's not right 21:03:09 it's too tedious, I think you need auxilliary cells. 21:03:12 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:05:04 Ah, "auxiliary", my old nemesis. 21:06:07 copumpkin: is codualization the same as dualization? 21:15:01 can you give me a concise hello world or something that prints stuff? 21:15:33 ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ +++++ . 21:15:38 should that print A ? 21:16:08 (it does in my interpreter) 21:17:37 ok i think i just broke the [ ] but the rest is fine 21:21:44 -!- Naprecks has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:25:31 ++++++[->+++++++<]>... should print three asterisks 21:25:31 !bf ++++++[->+++++++<]>... should print three asterisks 21:25:31 *** 21:25:31 ​*** 21:47:44 it prints *** 21:47:47 ^.^ 21:48:04 it works it works 21:49:18 Do we have duplicate !bf's? 21:50:36 !bf [ 21:53:13 tada http://arin.ga/hpExIX 21:54:17 ^bf [ better error reporting 21:54:17 Mismatched []. 21:54:19 See. 21:54:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:54:37 .) printf -v output %o "${tape[cell]}" 21:54:37 printf "\\$output" ;; 21:54:43 isn't that the same as printf %o "${tape[cell]}"? 21:55:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:55:24 nope 21:56:17 well it probably needs to be printf -v output %o "$(( tape[cell] % 256))" 21:56:37 it prints the octal in the var "output" 21:56:47 the it actually prints it 21:56:52 then* 21:57:16 `` printf -v output %o 65; printf "\\$output" 21:57:17 A 21:59:19 `` printf "\\$(printf %o 65)" # arguably slightly streamlined 21:59:23 A 21:59:52 The whole go-via-octal-escape thing seems silly, but I can't think of anything better offhand either. 22:00:40 $() is inefficient 22:00:44 it's a fork + exec 22:02:41 !bf ok so this is fine, i guess? same code as above but i added <> ++++++[->+++++++<]>... 22:02:41 *** 22:02:41 ​*** 22:04:16 izabera: you have a , in there but it doesn't matter for the demonstration 22:04:28 oh 22:04:30 sorry 22:04:32 lol 22:04:36 didn't notice it :D 22:04:51 a danger of bf commenting 22:07:00 izabera: I don't think it's a fork + exec when the argument is a builtin. Compare http://sprunge.us/PQRO 22:07:09 fizzie: it is 22:07:13 well not exec 22:07:15 still fork 22:07:39 forks are cheap, aren't they 22:07:44 no lol 22:08:10 `` echo $(var=3; echo $var); echo $var 22:08:11 3 22:08:12 * oerjan thought they did copy-on-write sharing 22:08:19 see? ^ only once 22:09:04 oerjan: There's cheap and then there's cheap. 22:09:30 i will have none of your relativism. 22:09:40 (And okay, there's a clone.) 22:09:44 `` time for i in {1..1000}; do printf -v output %o 65; printf "\\$output"; done >/dev/null 22:09:45 ​ \ real0m0.041s \ user0m0.100s \ sys0m0.000s 22:09:50 awww no time? 22:09:58 `` ( time for i in {1..1000}; do printf -v output %o 65; printf "\\$output"; done >/dev/null ) 2>&1 22:09:59 ​ \ real0m0.045s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 22:10:03 oh come on 22:10:23 What do you mean, no time? 22:10:53 `` TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS'; ( time for i in {1..1000}; do printf -v output %o 65; printf "\\$output"; done >/dev/null ) 2>&1 22:10:54 real: 0m0.044s, user: 0m0.210s, sys: 0m0.000s 22:10:56 thanks 22:11:00 stupid bot 22:11:05 It looked just fine earlier, too. 22:11:10 I mean, sure, there were some raw tabs. 22:11:22 `` TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS'; ( time for i in {1..1000}; do printf "\\$(printf %o 65)"; done >/dev/null ) 2>&1 22:11:35 real: 0m12.386s, user: 0m1.980s, sys: 0m9.940s 22:11:42 0.044s vs 12s ?? 22:11:56 wow fork is cheap 22:12:06 It's not quite fair to do that particular comparison on the UML box. 22:12:23 I get 0.022s vs 0.364s locally. 22:12:42 wow it's sooo cheap 22:13:04 that's only 15(?) times as much 22:13:21 `time time time 22:13:22 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: time: not found 22:13:37 `run type time 22:13:38 time is a shell keyword 22:13:43 Mmhmm. 22:13:44 `run time time 22:13:45 ​ \ real0m0.000s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 22:14:02 `run time time time 22:14:02 ​ \ real0m0.000s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 22:17:39 if you want an expensive fork, try cygwin 22:17:40 no COW 22:18:40 D: 22:19:36 * oerjan is getting ambiguous readings on his sarcasm meter 22:20:36 elliott: it just uses Ordinary Exec, no? 22:20:44 cygwin has a slow fork. 22:20:54 sorry, eXec 22:21:27 i meant for izabera 22:21:27 I must be missing a joke. 22:21:46 compare `on` acronym 22:21:54 o.o 22:22:02 :3 22:22:53 * oerjan now is getting ambiguous readings on his confusion vs. groaning meter 22:24:35 well i implemented an interpreter in 3 hours 22:24:37 is that a lot? 22:24:54 i finished it now and it's purrrfect 22:25:22 wait is this brainfuck i'm not up to the logs yet 22:25:45 clearly 3 minutes should be enough for a bf interpreter 22:25:48 * oerjan runs away 22:25:48 :( 22:26:05 but this was my first try :( 22:26:20 i didn't even know brainfuck before 22:26:39 i made a brainfuck interpreter once, it took me several days i think. 22:26:54 *possibly* because i made it in Fueue. 22:27:18 like i know what it is D: 22:27:28 ^wiki Fueue 22:27:28 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fueue 22:28:27 i don't think i've ever made one in a normal language. 22:29:21 although i've implemented at least one brainfuck derivative 22:30:22 dammit it doesn't work :( 22:30:28 my stupid interpreter 22:30:28 * oerjan is a pretty slow programmer and would never make a time estimate in earnest btw 22:30:38 izabera: Doesn't the handling of [ leave extra stuff in the 'loop' array when []s are skipped? 22:31:00 err... possibly? 22:31:03 got an example? 22:31:07 damn ventilation is making that noise again 22:32:01 izabera: Um. Not really, or at least one where it'd make a difference. But I still think you want to do loop+=(i) only in the else of the if (( tape[cell] % 256 == 0 )) test. 22:34:34 poor izabera 22:34:48 ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>+++++[-<.>>[]<] 22:34:48 AAAAA 22:34:52 elliott: eh? :( 22:34:52 I think that might be an example. 22:35:06 ok lemme see 22:35:17 izabera: everyone picking on you :P 22:35:24 well fizzie is helping 22:36:05 fizzie: it breaks :( 22:36:26 Yes, I assume it's jumping to the opening [ of the []. 22:36:52 (It will be easy to fix.) 22:37:02 (Because I just fixed it.) 22:39:19 thanks 22:39:24 a lot 22:40:37 izabera: so when will you do an optimising BF compiler in bash >_> 22:40:40 That might be the longest bash script I've ever seen that doesn't actually execute any commands. 22:41:08 elliott: are you talking about that optimizing compiler written in sed? 22:41:13 Or I guess in bash terminology the builtins are still "commands", but you know what I mean. 22:41:21 which optimizes x+=5 ? 22:41:35 izabera: not about one in sed in particular 22:41:42 ok 22:41:48 a compiler is out of reach for now :P 22:41:50 there's tons of optimising BF copilers, some of them are quite impressive (can compile a hello world make with loops to just printf("Hello, world!\n");) 22:42:44 it's actually easier to write a non-optimising BF compiler than an interpreter 22:42:53 since you can just turn [ into while (tape[ptr]) or whatever, it's string substitution 22:42:57 i'm still trying to fix something, it stops at the first NUL byte it reads with cat :( 22:42:59 not very interesting though 22:43:02 izabera: that's inherent 22:43:12 oh 22:43:16 since EOF is 0 22:43:19 the problem is cat 22:43:21 dammit 22:43:23 it's unfixable 22:43:26 :( 22:43:30 you can set EOF as -1 (255) but then it fails on other binary data 22:43:36 ok 22:43:38 nice 22:43:44 it's purrfect \o/ 22:43:44 | 22:43:44 /< 22:44:04 it's purrfect because it runs cat, right? 22:44:16 I hope that wasn't your joke because it's a good one and I want to be the one to make it. 22:44:21 it's purrfect because it runs +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>+++++[-<.>>[]<] 22:44:33 that does not look like a cat. I doubt it purrs. 22:44:39 shush :P 22:45:02 you just don't appreciate my jokes. 22:45:18 haha 22:45:56 izabera: I think you should probably try LostKng.b, it's the standard stress test for brainfuck stuff. 22:46:09 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 22:46:10 izabera: everyone picking on you :P <-- the bastards! 22:46:15 does LostKng actually use wrapping? 22:46:19 -!- llue has joined. 22:46:34 can you link these? 22:46:48 " izabera: I think you should probably try LostKng.b, it's the standard stress test for brainfuck stuff. -!- llue [~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu] has quit [Quit: That's what she said]" she made recommendations as to what brainfuck programs to try, I guess 22:47:06 izabera: https://github.com/graue/esofiles/tree/master/brainfuck/src 22:47:11 thanks 22:47:12 oh that doesn't have lostkng 22:47:23 And http://web.archive.org/web/20111031121638/http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html for that. 22:47:33 But the other archive is quite nice too. 22:47:34 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rdebath/LostKingdom/gh-pages/LostKng.b 22:47:36 yeah 22:47:37 is that something that takes a while? 22:47:43 cause my interpreter is _slow_ 22:47:48 LostKng.b shouldn't be too slow 22:47:53 mandelbrot.b is 22:48:00 but also pretty! 22:48:01 It's a biggish program, though. 22:48:04 Two megabytes or so. 22:48:21 (It wasn't written by hand.) 22:56:09 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 22:59:10 is this slow? https://raw.githubusercontent.com/graue/esofiles/master/brainfuck/src/rot13.b 22:59:25 $ time echo xyz | ./bf rot13.b 22:59:27 klm 22:59:29 real: 0m16.023s, user: 0m15.983s, sys: 0m0.013s 22:59:33 only 16s 22:59:35 not bad 23:06:03 16 seconds to rot-13 one line? 23:06:04 nice 23:06:08 I didn't know bash was THAT slow 23:06:26 it's rot13ing only 4 characters XD 23:06:28 would it be faster if you compiled to bash and then evalled it 23:07:14 hey it works u_u 23:08:46 that was a sincere question! 23:09:42 not sure 23:10:09 I guess I don't know how bash's interpretation works 23:10:17 does it do any kind of pre-parsing at all? 23:10:28 what do you mean? 23:11:32 like, does bash parse functions into an AST? 23:11:52 or does it store them as strings/lists of tokens and parse/execute them token by token every time you execute a function 23:12:17 no it's parsed when it's read 23:12:18 if it parses into an actual AST or bytecode data structure that can be interpreted more efficiently then I guess compile-and-eval would be faster 23:12:41 that's why you basically can't use aliases in functions 23:12:54 oh interesting 23:13:07 does it use the aliases you had at the time of parsing, or? 23:13:08 aliases are expanded when the definition is read, not when it's called 23:13:13 * elliott nods 23:13:14 Forth-y 23:13:27 you know too much about this horrible language :P 23:13:40 it's ok-ish 23:14:19 i'd rather have a faster interpreter but heh 23:14:24 i mean bash's interpreter 23:14:33 not my bf interpreter :P 23:15:12 bash JIT 23:15:48 also there are errors in the parser... 23:16:04 no kidding, those errors get CVEs :p 23:16:17 not only those onese 23:16:34 i mean sure, shellshock got famous but there are other errors 23:17:19 like, ${var[0] i basically can write whatever i want here and bash will never complain} 23:18:55 `` printf "%(%H:%M)" 23:18:55 bash: line 0: printf: warning: `.': invalid time format specification \ bash: line 0: printf: `H': invalid format character \ %( 23:19:04 `` printf "%(%H:%M)T" 23:19:05 00:00 23:19:16 `` printf "%(%H:%M and now let's escape a left parentheses \) )T" 23:19:17 bash: line 0: printf: warning: ` ': invalid time format specification \ bash: line 0: printf: `H': invalid format character \ %( 23:19:46 this one shouldn't produce an error but bash basically shuts its brain in %()T 23:19:51 hehe 23:21:37 well, there's no spec other than bash itself, right 23:21:41 so I guess anything it does is okay by definition 23:21:51 there are specs for posix sh 23:22:27 bash does a good job about those :) 23:22:48 too bad posix sh sucks 23:23:11 i'll just throw a link in here for you to star <.< https://github.com/izabera/bf 23:25:34 I haven't logged into github in, like, years. 23:25:40 :( 23:25:40 :( 23:26:49 can you even write a bf interpreter in pure posix sh? 23:26:54 without anything that can be a non-builtin 23:27:17 posix sh has no arrays other than the positional parameters 23:27:27 you could store the tape in a string if you could mangle the format enough, I guess? 23:27:39 or just use positional parameters. there's probably some rather low guaranteed limit on those though 23:28:24 parsing a line character by character is painful... 23:29:02 well, nobody said it would be easy >_> 23:29:17 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 23:29:47 does your ] jump back to the [ or the instruction after the [? 23:30:01 if the former, then I guess it'd be wasting time looking for the ] every iteration? and that could explain why rot13 was so slow 23:30:36 o_o lemme try 23:30:52 -!- variable has joined. 23:31:00 no <.< 23:31:09 i'm already jumping after the [ :( 23:32:22 hmm 23:32:28 I don't suppose bash has a profiler :p 23:32:41 there's a "debugger" 23:32:55 no profilers yet i'm afraid 23:33:34 izabera: your interpreter doesn't do - on 0 -> 255 23:33:37 (underflow wraparound) 23:33:38 which is common 23:34:05 why not? 23:34:07 it does 23:34:12 oh hmm 23:34:13 ouch 23:34:15 okay but it doesn't support -- on 0 23:34:15 it doesn't 23:34:20 (it's probably easiesr to store the cells pre-moduloed; I think your way will also break once you exceed bash's numerical limts?) 23:34:32 (as in just do x = (x +- 1) % 256 for both) 23:35:23 *easier 23:35:36 the problem is that $(( -1 % 256 )) == -1 23:35:38 :( 23:35:50 ok i'll just add 256 before the modulus 23:36:23 ugh, yeah, that's annoying 23:36:28 you can also condition on 0 and 255 which might be easier 23:37:42 I admit that ${INTEGERCELLS-% 256} is cute though 23:37:50 INTEGERCELLS="* 2" ... 23:38:06 # set it to an empty value if it's set to avoid messing with the math expansion 23:38:06 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:38:08 if [[ $INTEGERCELLS ]]; then INTEGERCELLS= ; fi 23:38:14 oh, cheating :p 23:38:20 you cheating XD 23:38:24 don't you want an extensible program?? 23:38:37 not that way XD 23:38:42 you could use INTEGERCELLS to implement, like, boolfuck :P 23:38:54 wtf is boolfuck 23:39:05 like brainfuck with a tape of bools 23:39:12 oh 23:39:19 it's "the obvious thing", modulo IO being a bit of a fuss since it's bitwise 23:39:20 doesn't sound too useful 23:39:26 + and - get merged into a flip operation 23:45:10 izabera: if you do +, say, 2^32 + 1 times, does it still work with your implementation? 23:45:13 like does bash have bignums 23:45:18 if not then it could break with long-running programs 23:45:30 bash has 64 bit ints 23:45:37 probably fine then :p 2015-04-13: 00:05:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:52:16 -!- boily has joined. 00:53:33 -!- bixnode has joined. 01:00:01 @tell zzo38 hezzo38. verily, 3-player mahjong is a completely different game from regular riichi. 01:00:01 Consider it noted. 01:01:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:13:15 @metar CYUL 01:13:15 CYUL 130100Z 23007KT 15SM FEW240 11/01 A3018 RMK CI1 CI TR SLP222 01:13:37 oerjan: hellørjan. please confirm that you see 11/01 as well. 01:16:51 I SEE DEA^W NO WAIT, IT'S JUST 11/01 01:17:07 OKAY TDH 01:17:33 @metar cyyz 01:17:33 CYYZ 130100Z 19004KT 15SM FEW220 14/00 A3017 RMK CI2 SLP219 01:18:09 seems like it's a bit warmer up by the airport 01:19:51 @metar ENVA 01:19:51 ENVA 130050Z 27017KT 9999 FEW019 BKN033 04/01 Q1004 RMK WIND 670FT 28017KT 01:20:04 well it is the middle of the night.. 01:20:32 hm there isn't anything in there that tells timezone is there 01:20:44 i guess planes always use UTC anyway 01:20:52 well the sane ones. 01:21:01 it is 2122 hrs local time in Tronto 01:21:04 -!- hjulle has joined. 01:21:14 s/Tr/tor/ 01:21:17 oerjan: 00:50:00+0000. 01:21:20 orin: Tronno. 01:21:24 -!- bixnode has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:22:24 boily: ok i don't see those numbers up in the metar 01:22:43 queboily 01:23:11 Montro. 01:23:42 oerjan: they are grouped as 130050Z. 13 is the 13th of the month. 00h, 50m, Z for Zulu time. 01:23:45 weather in montorondheim 01:24:04 yes but Zulu time is UTC 01:24:09 I could get used to living in Montorondheim. 01:24:21 oerjan: yes. therefor, 00:50:00:+0000. 01:24:27 s/or/ore/ 01:24:48 or something like that. 01:24:56 * boily is plagued by typo spirits... 01:25:16 well my reason for timezone interest was to tell whether it's day or night, so converting to UTC isn't very helpful. 01:26:19 * oerjan is reminded about that "why changing to one timezone for the world is stupid" essay 01:27:29 you have to remember ENVA is somewhere in Norway, and so it's +0100. 01:27:39 (or whatever timezone Norway is in.) 01:27:43 hm too many google hits 01:27:50 currently +0200 01:27:57 right. DST. 01:29:02 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:34:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CURATED CHICKEN). 01:57:39 I don't think there's a uniqueness requirement for esolang names. <-- * briefly considers inventing a language named "brainfuck" 01:59:37 ais523 had that idea but I think it was going to be Brainfuck with a capital b 01:59:47 or should that be capital B 01:59:52 should that B 02:04:30 * oerjan briefly considers inventing a language named "brаinfuсk" 02:07:06 脳遣 02:07:30 oerjan: what. 02:07:44 Oh. 02:08:10 I think they should have phonecian unification 02:08:31 脳遣土 02:09:28 orin: that's going to be hard with the latin alphabet having several letters that descend from the same phonecian one 02:09:47 cg, ij, uvy 02:10:10 (well that's same in greek, i'm not sure about phonecian proper) 02:10:18 Hmm, true, but we can at least unify the ones that look the same 02:12:55 look the same but entirely different meanings? 02:13:49 or look the same in one case but not the other, like omicron 02:13:52 we can at LEAST a and alpha and cyrillic a 02:13:58 oh wait not omicron 02:14:03 mu and nu 02:14:37 And unify cyrillic sha with hebrew shin 02:17:18 God damn it those are opening quotes not... agh <-- you could say HackEgo ... `Triggered 02:17:43 arabic doesn't really look at all like phonecian 02:17:54 phunny that 02:18:38 note that phonecian descendants also include indic scripts afaik 02:19:39 they don't even look at all like each _other_ either 02:20:55 the idea of the alphabet was only invented once. although hangul probably didn't borrow much of the forms. 02:21:51 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:22:03 Hangul didn't borrow any of the forms -- it cribbed from Chinese script rather than an alphabet. 02:22:13 mhm 02:23:33 time to put on pizza 02:25:25 katakana and hiragana are literally just very lazily written versions of chinese characters that sort of sounded correct 02:26:25 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Hiragana_origin.svg 02:27:27 compartively I think hangul is more creative 02:28:02 Yep. Hangul was designed, kana evolved. 02:55:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:56:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:57:14 -!- heroux has joined. 02:58:23 -!- variable has joined. 03:03:02 yum pepperoni and pineapple 03:04:40 -!- encapsulation has joined. 03:34:00 https://github.com/graue/esofiles/blob/master/brainfuck/src/factor.b using this one 03:34:06 $ time bf factor.b <<< 42 03:34:08 42: 2 3 7 03:34:10 real: 0m51.399s, user: 0m51.213s, sys: 0m0.107s 03:34:18 only 51s \o/ 03:34:19 | 03:34:19 /< 03:53:01 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:59:19 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:00:30 `factor 51 04:00:31 51: 3 17 04:01:08 ^factor 51 04:01:31 fungot 51 04:01:31 Jafet: that would never be that clever... ( at least they have planet.lisp.org pointed over to it. i know we are talking about 04:02:24 at least. 04:03:24 Let f(n) be the number of steps used by factor.b to factor n 04:03:53 -!- Hijiri has joined. 04:23:20 izabera: that's kind of impressive when it takes so long to even rot13 04:25:42 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:40:26 `max factor 04:40:26 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: max: not found 04:42:34 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:47:11 I had a idea, make up the All The Tropes Card Game; if you collect all of the tropes then you win. 04:47:19 ?messages-loud 04:47:19 boily said 3h 47m 22s ago: hezzo38. verily, 3-player mahjong is a completely different game from regular riichi. 04:47:41 Yes I know 3-players game uses different rules 04:48:03 Although, I still to prefer to play such game using the rules of 4-players game. 04:52:08 is there a program I can use to play net riichi mahjong in freedom 05:00:50 I don't know. 05:02:00 But, I also want to play Washizu mahjong 05:09:29 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:14:43 -!- variable has joined. 05:26:45 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 05:27:02 -!- variable has joined. 05:45:48 -!- function has joined. 05:47:19 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:54:44 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:07:28 -!- Froox has joined. 06:09:48 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:10:10 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:19:26 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:23:28 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:23:33 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:23:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:26:08 -!- variable has joined. 06:41:15 massive speed up 06:41:18 $ time bf factor.b <<< 42 06:41:20 42: 2 3 7 06:41:22 real: 0m12.853s, user: 0m12.713s, sys: 0m0.120s 06:41:31 $ time echo hello world | bf examples/rot13.b 06:41:33 uryyb jbeyq 06:41:35 real: 0m2.833s, user: 0m2.817s, sys: 0m0.010s 06:45:13 what did you change? 06:45:21 i precomputed the jumps 06:45:56 oh... because in [a[b]c] you look for the ] after the b when hitting its [ 06:46:01 every iteration of the a[b]c loop 06:46:14 I feel silly for not realising that before 06:46:19 :) 06:46:29 I assumed there wasn't any overhead compared to preparsing 06:46:45 Morning 06:47:24 well now the rot13 has about 2s starting overhead, and it prints several characters per second... which is much better than the my first version that took about 5s per letter 06:48:00 i'll try mandelbrot *_* 06:48:17 will it take ages? 06:49:10 it goes line by line 06:49:17 with variable speed I think 06:49:37 * variable looks at elliott 06:49:51 :D 06:50:12 you're in a programming channel, what do you expect? >_> 06:54:12 https://github.com/izabera/bf/blob/master/bf tadaaa! 06:54:18 harder! better! faster! stronger! 06:55:52 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 06:55:56 elliott, izabera: fine, I'll pick a better nick 06:56:17 o_o 06:57:34 izabera: corollary: your work is never over. you have to improve this interpreter for the rest of eternity 06:58:03 the interpreter of the damned 06:58:27 haha :D 07:14:35 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:52:37 $ time bf examples/factor.b <<< 42 07:52:44 42: 2 3 7 07:52:44 real: 0m4.411s, user: 0m4.313s, sys: 0m0.090s 07:52:58 apparently computing the length of the program each time is stupid and slow <.< 08:02:03 I was wondering about that, whether it'd make a difference. 08:05:53 Collapsing repeated instructions into one is also pretty common, I think even with interpreters. fungot does that, for example. 08:05:53 fizzie: other than jpegtopnm and convert, are there any frontends for scheme which have a pleasant time!! 08:06:25 that's one weird reply 08:06:43 fungot: I didn't even know those were frontends for Scheme. 08:06:44 fizzie: i don't see how such artificial restrictions can help in learning. use what you want 08:06:56 And that one sounds like a verbatim quote. 08:07:05 fungot: Try to be a little more original, okay? 08:07:05 fizzie: and on providing unreadably succinct names for the srfi-33 ones, they were using the platypus book and using c++. the prof seems to be 08:07:33 fungot: seems to be what? 08:07:33 izabera: ( procedure)'. how do i, there... expr puts value of expr there... expr puts value of expr and output it 08:08:05 It's confused. 08:08:59 it hurt itself in confusion 08:28:40 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 08:32:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:32:36 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:50:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:50:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:05:31 fungot: You should try IronScheme. 09:05:32 roman2: how tremendously boring you, perhaps. not that cross compiling isn't great, but i'm going to 09:06:02 Help, fungot is going to cross compile something. 09:06:03 roman2: so do i. i was new, stairway to heaven sucks. get vmware. or just start up the script again, it creates a time loop somewhere 09:06:59 It's also going to create a time loop. I'm worried. 09:08:32 well obviously fungot is getting tired of waiting for ais523 to implement feather so has decided to do it emself. 09:08:32 oerjan: how do i get the latest pika without wasting effort with arch? i've been using it 09:09:32 fungot: i don't know. 09:09:32 oerjan: there's no reason not to try. patenting can't be the value of ( list) 09:10:05 fungot: the value of list i nil, which is about the same as patenting. 09:10:06 oerjan: would make me less confused, he just assembles all the bits in the message 09:10:10 *is 09:10:21 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDEGFFEEEEDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBB <- output after 25 minutes of mandelbrot.b 09:10:23 *of (list) 09:13:44 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:ESOSC 09:13:44 yay first line 09:13:51 nortti, Taneb: There's some work to do 09:13:53 apparentely 09:13:55 -!- roman2 has changed nick to mroman. 09:14:06 only 47 more to go 09:14:08 @metar ENVA 09:14:09 ENVA 130850Z 30017KT 9999 4000E -SN FEW005 SCT010CB BKN020 01/00 Q1012 TEMPO 1500 SHSNRA VV008 RMK WIND 670FT 31028KT 09:14:15 SNOW 09:14:50 izabera: are you making a bf interpreter? :) 09:15:09 wtf weather 09:15:11 i did 09:15:20 lifthrasiir: https://github.com/izabera/bf/blob/master/bf 09:15:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:16:37 ooooh, bfsh. 09:17:05 izabera: it might be actually faster to translate bf into (say) awk script and let awk to interpret that. 09:17:26 but what's the fun 09:17:46 making a transpiler in bash? 09:17:47 :) 09:17:54 wasn't the point to use only shell builtins 09:18:06 what's a transpiler? o_o 09:18:12 ah, of course. 09:18:22 if that's the intention that'd be fien 09:19:17 a compiler that translates to another language 09:19:21 like regular compilers do 09:19:55 but assumingly transpilers compile to a same generation language rather than a lower generation language :) 09:20:14 oh ok 09:20:58 "A source-to-source compiler translates between programming languages that operate at approximately the same level of abstraction, while a traditional compiler translates from a higher level programming language to a lower level programming language." 09:21:01 they just keep piling on 09:21:08 WP says the same thing about that. 09:21:21 so 09:21:24 technically bf -> asm is transpiling 09:21:27 not compiling 09:21:28 or 09:21:32 it's probably beven uppiling I'd say 09:21:35 since you translate upwards 09:21:43 from low level to high level 09:22:03 bf -> c is even worse 09:22:07 it's not compiling nor transpiling 09:22:38 hypertranspiling and hypotranspiling 09:22:55 please don't mix greek and latin hth 09:23:07 super or sub, although i don't think they quite fit 09:23:54 of course transpiling is probably a portmanteau anyway 09:24:55 ooh the original meaning of "compile" is "plunder, pillage, rob, steal" 09:25:03 Of course it is 09:25:09 With all the software pirates out there. 09:25:57 POGAACK? 09:25:57 Dispiling. (Compare converge/diverge.) 09:25:57 wtf. 09:28:25 somebody added a non existing File to pogaack 09:31:55 oh it should clearly be "depiling". 09:32:06 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/depilo#Latin 09:33:29 Or perhaps "defiling". 09:34:54 so 09:35:01 compilation -> decompilation 09:35:06 depiliation -> dedepilation? 09:35:46 (where dedepilation = transpilation)? 09:36:58 Dilapidation. 09:37:07 1. dilapidate -- (bring into a condition of decay or partial ruin by neglect or misuse) 09:37:11 Yes, that sounds about right. 09:40:33 well 09:40:40 I dilapidated lots of coding projects. 09:40:50 Burlesque is pretty much dilapidating. 09:45:36 fungot: Does fizzie dilapidate you? 09:45:36 mroman: you figured it out before there were any interesting english-speaking scheme or lisp 09:45:52 Of course I figured it out before everybody. 09:45:57 I invented Lisp! 09:46:16 Mostly to generate fancy looking passwords. 09:46:55 Have to admit I'm quilty of some amount of neglect there. 10:07:55 -!- oerjan has set topic: Dilapitated depilators | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 10:08:34 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:10:31 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:10:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:23:08 -!- boily has joined. 10:28:04 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42404&oldid=42370 * Rdococ * (+14) 10:29:26 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42405&oldid=42404 * Rdococ * (-14) Undo revision 42404 by [[Special:Contributions/Rdococ|Rdococ]] ([[User talk:Rdococ|talk]]) 10:30:39 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42406&oldid=42405 * Rdococ * (-8) 11:14:30 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:14:58 [wiki] [[Folder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42407&oldid=42403 * Rdococ * (+263) /* Structure */ added concept of substates 11:15:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:18:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DREAMT CHICKEN). 11:18:45 [wiki] [[Folder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42408&oldid=42407 * Rdococ * (+284) /* Input/Output */ 11:22:20 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:23:37 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:24:37 -!- int-e has left ("PRETENTIOUS CHICKEN"). 11:24:37 -!- int-e has joined. 11:27:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:27:35 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 11:31:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:34:00 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:34:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:34:44 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 11:37:39 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Client Quit). 11:37:52 omg it only printed 4 lines so far of that mandelbrot set 11:38:00 i'm stopping it -_- 11:39:29 i guess i could try to optimize the bf code... 11:50:30 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 11:55:03 better optimize the optimizer 11:55:11 that has more value to the community :) 11:55:24 but but then you risk singularity 11:56:56 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:58:12 fungot: Would you risk the singularity? 11:58:12 mroman: if you're getting signatures for keeping strip clubs open. heh.) are created before those variables are indeed bound, so that gambit can start implementing it? :d 11:58:48 Does it like strip clubs? 12:01:03 i think fungot may be planning something with blackjack and hookers 12:01:03 oerjan: " and") 12:01:52 fungot: i am not sure what you mean by putting "and" in scare quotes, but i'm sure it's disturbing. 12:01:52 oerjan: as for the thing to all three servers at once? :) i don't know why 12:15:43 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq. 12:16:00 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 12:27:46 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:29:03 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42409&oldid=42391 * Esowiki201529A * (+96) /* Hello, World! */ 12:30:11 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42410&oldid=42409 * Esowiki201529A * (+36) /* Hello, World! */ 12:31:02 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42411&oldid=42410 * Esowiki201529A * (+18) /* Hello, World! */ 12:32:57 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42412&oldid=42411 * Esowiki201529A * (+16) /* Concatenate string program */ 12:35:19 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:36:17 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42413&oldid=42412 * Esowiki201529A * (+38) /* VandalismScript */ 12:37:22 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42414&oldid=42413 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* VandalismScript */ 12:39:08 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42416&oldid=42414 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) /* VandalismScript */ 12:39:45 I propose an esolang where everything outside /* */ is a comment 12:39:51 and everything inside is code. 12:40:00 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:40:43 Can you #define */ ? 12:40:59 #define /* */ #define */ /* 12:41:02 hm 12:41:49 nope 12:46:05 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:48:07 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 12:48:33 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42417&oldid=42416 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) /* VandalismScript */ 12:49:07 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:49:38 It would be fun to have regex defines. 12:50:07 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42418 * Esowiki201529A * (+452) Created page with "== Example == === [[Cat program|Concatenate string program]] === ${[[Cat program|cat]]:} === [[Hello, world!|Hello, World!]] === A "[[Hello, world!|Hello, World!]]" program..." 12:52:29 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42419&oldid=42418 * Esowiki201529A * (+26) 12:52:33 $ time bf mandelbrot.b 12:52:35 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDEGFFEEEEDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB 12:52:37 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDEEEFGIIGFFEEEDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB 12:52:40 AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEFFFI KHGGGHGEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB 12:52:41 AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEFFGHIMTKLZOGFEEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB 12:52:46 AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEFGGHHIKPPKIHGFFEEEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB 12:52:49 AAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEFFGHIJKS X KHHGFEEEEEDD^C 12:52:50 real: 244m24.955s, user: 237m42.815s, sys: 6m13.283s 12:52:51 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42420&oldid=42419 * Esowiki201529A * (-1) /* See also */ 12:52:56 whops... too long 12:53:14 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42421&oldid=42420 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* See also */ 12:54:45 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42422&oldid=42421 * Esowiki201529A * (+20) /* See also */ 12:54:56 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:00:05 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:03:03 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42424&oldid=42422 * Esowiki201529A * (+53) /* See also */ 13:03:32 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42425&oldid=42424 * Esowiki201529A * (+4) /* See also */ 13:06:16 [wiki] [[Gibberish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42426&oldid=37407 * Esowiki201529A * (+59) /* Interpreter */ 13:09:02 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42427&oldid=42425 * Esowiki201529A * (-2) /* See also */ 13:17:55 Always nice to have example programs without documentation 13:18:25 source code == documentation ^^ 13:18:35 well 13:18:40 maybe where you live :) 13:18:58 haha 13:19:00 here up in the mountains where we eat cheese and chocolate and nothing else we like documentation alot. 13:19:21 Reading documentation and eating Fondue at the same time is a very recreational activity. 13:19:31 and delicous. 13:19:55 Although! 13:20:02 i used to use kvirc as my irc client 13:20:03 There are projects who on purpose don't document very much 13:20:18 in order for nobody to use it but still be able to claim it as open-source :D 13:20:29 there were two variables that apparently had the same value 13:20:34 also to make more money off support 13:20:41 heh 13:21:12 and the docs just said VAR1: This prints the value of VAR1 VAR2: This prints the value of VAR2 13:21:12 so i asked in #kvirc 13:21:17 they asked "did you read the docs?" 13:21:27 i said yes ofc and quoted that 13:21:35 then they asked "did you read the code?" 13:21:38 ... 13:21:49 RTFC - Read the fucking code. 13:21:57 also real time french clock. 13:22:07 :D 13:22:11 that was fun 13:23:44 would an hour or so be an ok time to print that mandelbrot set? <.< 13:24:04 i can probably get close to that 13:26:14 why is it having 6m of sys time btw? 13:26:41 out of 244m it's not much 13:39:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:42:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:44:04 -!- vodkode__ has joined. 13:53:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:53:51 -!- bb010g has joined. 14:09:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 14:09:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:13:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:14:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:17:49 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:18:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:19:05 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 14:32:37 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:33:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:33:06 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 14:33:18 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:39:45 http://thestack.com/cornell-justin-cheng-troll-behavior-130415 whoot 14:48:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:48:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:53:38 ah good old trolley problem 14:53:54 I'd still not flick any switches. 14:54:04 unless I had a little bit more motivation than just to safe five people. 14:56:18 -!- nszceta has joined. 14:58:40 isn't the correct answer to that to try to derail the train by flicking the switch with precise timing? or yell at the groups of people who would be hit to get out of the way? 14:59:05 Derail the train, killing everyone on it. 14:59:42 izabera: One thing I was wondering was whether it'd be faster to blow out the program into an array, in case the substring expansion is slow. Looking up an instruction is something that's done quite often. 14:59:51 fizzie: I thought the way it's normally set up, everyone aboard the train is doomed anyway 15:00:01 also IIRC train derailments are often survivable? 15:00:03 Could be, to both. 15:00:08 there are also some fun third options which need more space on the railway but would be much more effective 15:00:16 Both sound true. 15:00:27 such as "use something flimsy and mechanic to short the rails together in front of the rain" 15:00:41 which will end up indirectly engaging the emergency brakes unless people go to a lot of trouble to override them 15:01:19 there's also a mechanical way to engage the brakes by putting some sort of post next to the train so that it hits a brake engagement lever as the train goes past, but I don't know the details 15:07:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: BRAAAAKES). 15:10:33 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42428&oldid=42406 * Rdococ * (+78) Merged user page with esolang list 15:21:27 fungot: test 15:21:27 ais523: we hates them, they need to make fnord the heap that much more left :p 15:22:43 ais523: Passed. 15:22:57 Dubious 15:22:57 fungot: less hateful, please? 15:22:57 FireFly: ( if you need them at the corner 15:23:29 APic: I just made an assertion that Freenode has an IRC bot written in Befunge online right now 15:23:39 Yah, You won, Man! 15:23:41 and pinging fungot was the easiest way to see whether it was online 15:23:41 ais523: toddfleming i am not wearing warm clothes therefore the thermostat should be set to.... 15:24:54 Seems like an interesting assertion to make 15:25:50 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:25:51 -!- vodkode__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:26:32 FireFly: someone else was talking about JavaScript's networking abilities 15:26:44 tried to pick an example of a language that might be even worse at networking than JavaScript 15:26:50 and ended up picking the worst possible esolang to make the point 15:27:20 I see 15:27:36 ais523: At the very _Least_, it was not Malbolge. B-) 15:27:59 yeah, malbolge is bad at networking 15:28:06 True. 15:29:29 -!- variable has joined. 15:30:08 You'd think brainfuck would have been the obvious choice: it's the "standard" esolang, and is also pretty bad at ("innate") networking. The wire-stdin/out-to-netcat kind of things are arguable. 15:30:56 brainfuck almost certainly has more attempted OS-communication libraries than any other esolang 15:34:26 You mean, like, C? 15:34:58 Everything that does I/O is Standard-Stuff, not C-Stuff… 15:35:22 like C except if you restrict it to esolangs 15:35:32 Good. 15:35:41 actually BF probably is the best answer to the question "what is the C of esolangs?" 15:35:55 low-level, imperative, widely used, imitated a huge amount in ways that don't really improve on the original 15:35:58 But is not it esoteric too in the IOCCC and Places? 15:36:15 IOCCC can be thought of as an eso dialect of C, I guess 15:37:28 Good. 15:37:41 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:38:01 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:40:03 Has C been imitated that much? 15:40:34 I mean, not in a syntactic sense (to which the answer is obviously "yes") 15:40:49 you clearly don't work in the research compiler community ;-) 15:40:54 Heh 15:40:56 stupid C derivatives are pretty much our stupid BF derivative equivalent 15:40:57 I see 15:42:57 C spawned a whole family of syntax 15:43:20 C's syntax wasn't exactly new at the time, though 15:43:27 it's basically BCPL with types and more sensible keywords 15:44:33 Yeah, C is where all the other languages got it from though 15:44:34 *nod* 15:47:01 btw, what's the best way to teach people programming if they were expert programmers like 30 years ago, have stopped programming since, and now they ask you questions like "is it like Fortran, or like Algol?" and don't seem to understand why you'd use abstraction? 15:47:16 Yah. 15:48:35 FreeFull: it did, but most of the languages borrowing its syntax are very far from it semantically I think 15:48:36 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:48:56 At least among more popular languages 15:50:26 FireFly: Well, I did say syntax, not semantics ;) 15:50:37 Yeah 15:54:09 with research compilers, people often don't bother to have a syntax at all until later 15:54:13 you start off by writing parse trees manually 15:56:31 Ow. 15:56:40 -!- MDude has joined. 15:56:45 * APic hated UML 15:58:02 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 16:00:13 -!- G33kDude has joined. 16:00:15 -!- G33kDude has quit (Excess Flood). 16:00:35 -!- G33kDude has joined. 16:03:20 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:03:20 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 16:05:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:06:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:06:51 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:08:27 fizzie: i did that already 16:08:45 actually it turs out the expansion _was_ slow when the locale was involved 16:09:02 with LANG=C it doesn't make any noticeable difference 16:12:06 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 16:12:45 -!- Sprocklem_ has left. 16:25:53 -!- b_jonas has joined. 16:36:45 Probably counting UTF-8 characters from the start of the string each time with the locale on, then. 16:42:39 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:42:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:43:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:44:26 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Client Quit). 16:44:40 [wiki] [[Talk:~ATH]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42429 * Texenox * (+266) Created page with "== Wow. == I am absolutely impressed. Usually, I tend to not be such a frequent editor, but I'm absolutely stunned with how this article has come along. Thank you, Vriskanon. ..." 16:49:47 [wiki] [[User:Texenox]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42430 * Texenox * (+238) Created page with "Texenox is just some young bellend who enjoys the concept of coding. He has started the page relating to the fictional programming language [[~ATH]], but had then left it with..." 16:51:50 [wiki] [[State]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42431 * Rdococ * (+728) Created page with "{{stub}} My iPad battery is running out, so I am in a rush to get to my PC. Please don't delete this if it is unfinished.
The '''State programming language''' is an esot..." 16:56:13 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:56:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:56:26 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:56:29 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 17:01:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:01:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:01:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:02:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:02:44 -!- glogbot has joined. 17:02:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:02:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:17:27 -!- Hijiri has joined. 17:27:51 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:29:06 -!- heroux has joined. 17:34:03 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:38:52 http://sprunge.us/hGSc ... bullshit bingo aside, I wonder what they mean by "non-parseable notations" 17:44:06 based on some kind of ethereal tokens inaccessible to our plane? 17:46:14 [wiki] [[State]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42432&oldid=42431 * Rdococ * (+251) Updated page 17:48:49 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 17:54:05 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:54:49 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:57:58 -!- nszceta has joined. 17:59:06 -!- nszceta has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:59:52 -!- nszceta has joined. 18:03:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:05:29 -!- bb010g has joined. 18:06:17 -!- Hijiri has joined. 18:07:49 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:08:19 -!- Hijiri has quit (Client Quit). 18:09:08 -!- Hijiri has joined. 18:11:37 -!- Hijiri has quit (Client Quit). 18:12:35 -!- Hijiri has joined. 18:42:22 [wiki] [[State]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42433&oldid=42432 * Rdococ * (-16) 18:42:44 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 18:47:38 -!- rdococ has joined. 18:47:48 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42434&oldid=42428 * Rdococ * (-53) New language... although I might have rushed it 18:51:52 so we have Text, Folder, what now? Website? 18:57:37 -!- nycs has joined. 18:57:46 hmm 18:57:54 Text, Folder, the next thing would be Picture! 18:59:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:18:02 [wiki] [[Floater]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42435&oldid=39156 * 4D enthusiast * (+8) /* Configuration */ reduced the ambiguity of the definition of angbase 19:23:05 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:30:59 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:37:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:38:25 Another kind is one to use RDF graphs as the input format. (A RDF graph is a directed graph where edges are labeled with URIs, and nodes are optionally labeled with URIs; each labeled node has a different label. A node can also be a literal which is a pair consisting of a string and a URI; a literal is not allowed to have any edges leading from it.) 19:38:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:39:43 i have a language in mind 19:39:48 writing programs in it would be easy 19:40:05 interpreting the easy subset of the language would be easy 19:40:26 but the language would be huge with many equivalent symbols 19:40:54 and interpreting/compiling all of it would take a lot of time 19:41:00 would this be interesting? 19:42:31 for each possible symbol, it's (relatively) easy to understand what it does 19:43:07 I don't know 19:43:13 ok 19:43:21 just take a rubik's cube 19:43:54 translate brainfuck like this , 1 . 2 + 3 - 4 [ 5 ] 6 > 7 < 8 19:44:11 now any state of the cube has a minimum number of moves required to solve it 19:44:29 any state that is solvable in 1 move is mapped to , 19:44:35 any state that is solvable in 2 moves is mapped to . 19:44:39 and so on 19:44:49 there are 4.3 * 10^19 possible states 19:45:05 any state out of that [1-8] range is a comment 19:45:44 so to interpret it, you actually have to solve each state in the minimum number of moves 19:45:50 which is np-complete 19:46:23 writing programs otoh is relatively easy, just identify 8 states and use those 19:47:48 Ah, OK now I can see how you mean. 19:48:40 -!- zadock has joined. 19:48:59 Still if the interpreter proves that you need at least nine moves to solve it, it doesn't have to try to solve it or figure out exactly how much, since it is treated as a comment. 19:49:11 yeah 19:49:17 that's not so easy tho 19:49:50 Well, yes, but still it can use such a shortcut 19:52:40 i can't think of an efficient way to do it 19:52:48 -!- Hijiri has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:53:32 I don't know either; it is just one kind of idea. 19:59:45 i guess one could do something like that for any np-complete problem... 20:00:08 cute idea 20:00:34 I think there are languages that are hard to write but easy to interpret, but I don't think I've seen the other way around before 20:01:44 -!- Hijiri has joined. 20:06:12 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:09:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:25:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:46:02 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:47:08 -!- Froox has joined. 20:50:31 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:52:18 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 20:53:29 -!- magician has joined. 20:56:54 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:56:54 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780. 21:12:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:17:52 Apparently austria is actually spelled with a o 21:18:22 I think there are languages that are hard to write but easy to interpret, but I don't think I've seen the other way around before 21:18:28 eodermdrome springs to mind 21:21:15 -!- Froo has joined. 21:24:53 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:25:18 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:26:06 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:28:32 Hm, what about natural language computing. Natural languages are about as easy as possible for humans, but extremely hard for computers to interpret 21:29:23 -!- rdococ has joined. 21:30:08 Yes, maybe the Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers would disagree. 21:30:43 (Okay, they don't exactly claim it's hard to interpret.) 21:30:54 (I just wanted to bring them up.) 21:32:43 Wasn't there a project somewhere with an artificial pronouncable language that was basically prolog? 21:34:21 -!- HMC_A_ has joined. 21:34:23 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 21:34:53 orin, lojban, maybe? 21:36:15 -!- HMC_A has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 21:36:15 -!- atehwa has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 21:38:11 yeah, that was it, I read a page somewhere about using it for programming but I can't find it now 21:42:24 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 21:48:25 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:49:21 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:51:49 -!- Hijiri has joined. 21:51:59 Phantom_Hoover: eodermdrome currently has more interpreters than programs 21:52:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:53:38 I am fairly sure there exist joke languages which are easy to write in but hard to interpret 21:53:51 Actually, what about Banana Scheme or something 21:54:15 If you consider smtlib language as a programming language then that probably qualifies 21:55:16 In that vein, HTML5 probably qualifies 21:55:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:58:35 Jafet, what, someone actually wrote one? 21:59:40 brainf 21:59:49 *not easy to write in either 22:07:11 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 22:09:03 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:13:47 -!- boilyphone has joined. 22:13:59 Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! 22:14:10 @metar CYUL 22:14:10 CYUL 132200Z 15015G21KT 30SM FEW110 FEW180 OVC240 21/04 A2986 RMK AC1AC1CI7 AC TR SLP110 DENSITY ALT 800FT 22:14:31 hmm 22:14:58 a program can be built to solve a problem. why not just tell the computer the problem? 22:15:11 Hey, boilyphone 22:15:17 You seem somewhat mobile 22:15:22 Tanelle! 22:16:05 Yes, on my phone. Waiting for a friend, then eat then Douteux. 22:16:13 What are you up to? 22:16:37 Trying to revise Linear Algebra 22:16:40 * boilyphone is warmly disturbed by the weather. 22:16:49 Oh! Lucky! 22:19:23 I wonder if it's possible to create a turing complete programming language with one instruction & one parameter. 22:21:22 you can make one with a single parameterless primitve 22:21:35 do combinator calculi count as programming languages 22:21:36 really? 22:21:40 -!- boilyphone has quit (Quit: MOBILE CHICKEN). 22:21:44 anything does 22:21:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic#One-point_basis 22:22:07 if you use it to program, or communicate problems, solutions and instructions to a machine 22:22:18 which i'm sure is what Hijiri has in mind 22:22:26 because there is a turing complete 1-combinator calculus 22:22:51 I don't know what such a thing means 22:23:20 that's what I was thinking about 22:23:38 well... 22:26:02 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 22:26:20 -!- Hijiri_ has joined. 22:28:33 I have a programming language you can use right now... 22:29:01 unlike its unintentional brother Folders 22:30:56 hmm... what is the computational class of Text? 22:32:07 ...hmm 22:33:39 I think I will go to sleep now 22:33:41 Goodnight! 22:33:48 Night 22:40:15 dilapitated? Isn't that "delapidated"? (from lapis, latin for stone, meaning when stones are fallen out of a wall) 22:40:29 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:41:14 It's just a misspelling, don't lose your head over it. 22:41:32 Apparently I also misspelled it 22:41:51 it's actually "dilapidated" 22:42:55 this is what happens when you don't have a phonemic orthography 22:43:46 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42436&oldid=42427 * Esowiki201529A * (+26) /* Example */ 22:52:00 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42437&oldid=42436 * Esowiki201529A * (+55) /* interpreter */ 22:52:40 -!- Hijiri_ has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 22:53:35 Wait what.. hm 22:54:43 The one-point basis in combinatory logic hinges on being able to represent the expression as a tree (using parenheses), right? 22:56:04 so it's source representation isn't just a list 22:56:12 its* 22:56:31 yes, but with a linear representation you can make do with two 22:56:31 http://www.westpoint.edu/eecs/SiteAssets/SitePages/Faculty%20Publication%20Documents/Okasaki/jfp03flat.pdf 23:04:23 the story is a nice touch 23:07:11 -!- rdococ has joined. 23:07:25 feeling lonely 23:12:43 Neat 23:24:34 FireFly: that just sounds mean out of context :P 23:25:21 oops.. yeah, you're right 23:36:13 -!- HackEgo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:36:23 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:36:51 Makes me want to use a client like Microsoft Comic Chat to take screenshots and pretend they're panels of Jerkcity. 23:37:53 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:38:09 "No backend server available for connection: timed out after 10 seconds or idempotent set to OFF or method not idempotent." 23:38:15 what language is this website in? 23:39:07 apparently oracle 23:39:31 bridged to apache 23:45:07 -!- Hijiri has joined. 23:46:33 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 23:46:46 -!- llue has joined. 23:46:54 -!- llue has quit (Changing host). 23:46:54 -!- llue has joined. 23:50:59 -!- vodkode__ has joined. 23:53:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:58:34 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 2015-04-14: 00:03:49 MDude: is there any way to distinguish jerkcity comics from random MS Comic Chat screenshots 00:04:02 can they truly be said to be distinct categories 00:04:50 Frequency of refferences to dicks? 00:14:30 can you show me an if-else in bf? 00:18:09 +>[.<->[-]]<[>>.<<-] 00:18:51 ok wait i'm a beginner, gimme a minute to understand it 00:19:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:21:04 increment cell0 to 1, if cell1 != 0 print it, then decrement cell0, then cell1 = 0 while cell0-- != 0 print cell2 00:21:45 ok that... doesn't look like an if-else 00:23:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 273 seconds). 00:24:23 -!- Melvar` has joined. 00:24:23 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:24:41 ok uhm the while loop is skipped since you decremented cell0 00:25:06 nice, thank you 00:25:07 well a while block executed once is just an if block, if you want to look at it that way 00:25:12 http://www.paste.org/77995 00:25:12 sure 00:25:33 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:25:48 This is my attempt at an interpreter for "State" 00:26:12 orin: can you use a pastebin that doesn't have an anti-adblock? :\ 00:26:55 huh? Ihave adblock and i'm seeing no problems 00:28:09 http://pastecode.org/index.php/view/99675460 00:28:23 thanks 00:28:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:29:05 Oh. I see, it's because I also use noscript 00:29:59 spam spam spam spam spam best pastebin evur spam spam spam spam http://arin.ga 00:31:08 no js required, it gives you the raw version when you load it from curl/wget, and you can set an expire date like '17 years 9 days 2 hours 55 minutes' 00:31:36 00:32:32 Anyway, rdococ, do you have any example programs? 00:32:57 izabera: have you looked at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms 00:33:07 i currently am 00:33:19 looking at it 00:43:09 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:47:50 how do i move the pointer 1000 cells to the left? 00:48:29 depends on the implementation whether that is even possible 00:48:40 where it is possible, 1000 <'s in a row should do it 00:49:01 ...i meant to the right ^^ 00:49:28 and i was hoping for a different answer 00:52:18 if the tape has only zeros and then you put N in a cell, you can then use [-[>+<-]>] pattern to move the pointer over N spots 00:52:57 [wiki] [[ASCII art/mandelbrot]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42438 * Esowiki201529A * (+1067) Created page with " vL , '*m-` -m/**\a, ..." 00:54:13 [wiki] [[ASCII art/mandelbrot]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42439&oldid=42438 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) 00:55:59 if the tape does not have only zeroes... 1000 >'s should do it :D 00:56:16 yay <.< 00:56:23 (fun fact: most programs do not require 1000 cells) 01:02:39 if you have 1000 nonzero cells followed by a zero, you may want to consider [>] 01:10:50 -!- SgeoWeb has joined. 01:11:13 youtube is dead 01:11:29 My home laptop is dead 01:11:41 As is my sanity 01:12:28 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:12:37 `relcome bb010g 01:12:44 `relcome sgeo's insanity 01:12:57 relcome? 01:13:03 ​bb010g: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:13:03 ​sgeo's: insanity: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:13:38 Hmm. o.o 01:16:23 [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42440&oldid=42253 * Quintopia * (+79) /* z = sign(x-y) */ i had this algorithm backwards apparently. i think i fixed it. 01:17:37 Is it a bad idea to call out a subreddit mod for failing to disclose financial incentives? 01:17:50 I mean, this mod is helping me, but still 01:18:46 [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42441&oldid=42440 * Quintopia * (+49) /* z = sign(x-y) */ 01:20:55 [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42442&oldid=42441 * Quintopia * (-41) /* z = sign(x-y) */ 01:22:02 * SgeoWeb looks a bit closer 01:22:06 Could have been a mistake 01:22:09 SgeoWeb: do you have reason to suspect the mod's judgment is compromised by a conflict of interest? 01:22:40 quintopia: no, but I have reason to believe it's a violation of the subreddit's own rules, which state that posters of affiliate links should have it disclosed in their flair 01:24:00 Eh, if it's a mistake, they won't mind me asking about the affiliate thing directly 01:24:14 I see other Amazon links by them that don't have the affiliate tag 01:24:26 And ones to non-affiliate-capable sites 01:30:12 i wouldn't mention it then 01:31:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:59:49 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OBQ5950/ 01:59:57 Don't seem to see details on the HD 02:03:50 what details are you looking for? 02:04:54 Whether the HD will park itself if it detects vibration 02:05:10 Also all the negative reviews about the SSD breaking and being dumped into a BIOS utility scare me 02:20:22 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 02:22:05 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:22:22 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 02:23:51 -!- llue has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:23:52 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:23:58 -!- SgeoWeb has changed nick to Sgeo. 02:24:16 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to SgeoWbe. 02:24:19 -!- SgeoWbe has changed nick to SgeoWeb. 02:29:14 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 02:30:09 -!- Froox has joined. 02:32:28 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:32:45 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:40:03 -!- adu has joined. 02:59:44 -!- jameseb- has joined. 03:05:05 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 03:05:05 -!- dianne has quit (*.net *.split). 03:05:05 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 03:05:06 -!- jameseb has quit (*.net *.split). 03:05:06 -!- zemhill_ has quit (*.net *.split). 03:09:20 Apparently austria is actually spelled with a o <- Ö hth 03:11:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:11:33 -!- b_jonas has joined. 03:11:33 -!- dianne has joined. 03:11:33 -!- lambdabot has joined. 03:11:33 -!- zemhill_ has joined. 03:12:23 -!- Sprocklem has changed nick to Guest17241. 03:12:27 oesterreich 03:12:59 https://github.com/mishoo/UglifyJS2/issues/121#issuecomment-92522991 03:20:02 Hmm... what if i dynamically tell what base a number is in as it's read? so for eixample, 2F0 is (2*10+15)*16=560 03:20:46 2*3? 03:22:03 shachaf: good point. 03:22:38 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 03:23:16 in such representation, it is not obvious to me an algorithm for opimizing the size of higher numbers 03:24:53 consider if we have only 36 known digits, then in representing 37... 03:26:40 We can do 1Y 03:30:35 can i propose a code challenge? 03:30:46 What kind of code challenge? 03:31:08 `` echo {a,b,}c{1..3} 03:31:08 ac1 ac2 ac3 bc1 bc2 bc3 c1 c2 c3 03:31:12 invert it 03:32:05 find the shortest brace expansion that generates a set of strings 03:36:32 `` echo {1..3}{a,b,c}{4..6} 03:36:33 1a4 1a5 1a6 1b4 1b5 1b6 1c4 1c5 1c6 2a4 2a5 2a6 2b4 2b5 2b6 2c4 2c5 2c6 3a4 3a5 3a6 3b4 3b5 3b6 3c4 3c5 3c6 03:37:20 `` echo {x,{,w}q}{,a} # you can even nest it 03:37:26 x xa q qa wq wqa 03:40:21 `` echo {abc,def}{g,} 03:40:22 abcg abc defg def 03:41:06 `` echo {1..3}{a..c} 03:41:07 1a 1b 1c 2a 2b 2c 3a 3b 3c 03:41:20 `` echo {1..3}{aa..ac} 03:41:21 1{aa..ac} 2{aa..ac} 3{aa..ac} 03:42:22 you may restrict the challenge to the {a,b,c} expansion style, ignore the {a..z} ^^ 03:43:27 `` echo {`{,`}}{1..3} 03:43:28 bash: {,: command not found \ bash: {,: command not found \ bash: {,: command not found \ {}}1 {}}2 {}}3 03:43:36 `` echo {\{,\}}{1..3} 03:43:36 ​{1 {2 {3 }1 }2 }3 03:43:52 you may restrict the challenge to lowercase letters only <.< 03:44:02 And then, do you have to consider if the text include itself braces? 03:44:11 you may restrict the challenge to lowercase letters only <.< 03:44:13 (Even outside of a block) 03:44:25 lowercase letters only <.< 03:44:46 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:45:21 O, so you mean all of the text is only with lowercase letter and not .. either, I suppose is you mean? 03:45:34 no i mean 03:45:54 -!- Guest17241 has quit (Quit: [). 03:45:58 the input is a single line with several words, space separated or whatever 03:46:07 that only use lowercase letters 03:46:16 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 03:46:20 O, so spaces is OK too, but only between items. 03:46:35 hey the input format is not important 03:47:33 i'm just trying to remove the annoying cases <.< 03:48:07 OK 03:48:07 get a list of words and produce the smallest brace expansion that generates them ^^ 03:48:19 OK 03:53:17 I want to make up a "temporary://" URI scheme for temporary identifiers. The format is scheme,authority,path,query,fragment like other URI and work same way relative URIs too, but it is local to the current instance and is not a global URI and probably doesn't points to anything. I also want to make up "urn:bible:" scheme. 03:54:44 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Itflabtijtslwi]] to [[Ignore this fancy little acronym because this is just that slashes language with input]] 03:54:44 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Talk:Itflabtijtslwi]] to [[Talk:Ignore this fancy little acronym because this is just that slashes language with input]] 03:54:59 Would urn:bible: only be Bible locations, or could it also specify translation? 03:55:13 And if so, is there a list of translations, or a more generic way anyone could produce a 'translation'? 03:55:31 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Ignore this fancy little acronym because this is just that slashes language with input]] to [[Itflabtijtslwi]] over redirect 03:55:31 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Talk:Ignore this fancy little acronym because this is just that slashes language with input]] to [[Talk:Itflabtijtslwi]] over redirect 03:55:57 SgeoWeb: Only the Bible reference, I think. 03:56:25 If you want a specific translation, you will use the URL that points to the text of that translation. 03:58:50 For example you can write urn:bible: or urn:bible:: or urn:bible::: or urn:bible:::-: might be the possible formats. 03:59:20 -!- SgeoWeb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:03:36 http://www.westpoint.edu/eecs/SiteAssets/SitePages/Faculty%20Publication%20Documents/Okasaki/jfp03flat.pdf <-- now i'm wondering if it is obviously impossible to do this with S and K specifically 04:06:55 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:08:20 anything starting with K.. or SK.. can be simplified. 04:08:55 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:09:20 SSxy = Sy(xy), if y is K that's also useless 04:11:31 SSxSz = SS(xS)z = Sz(xSz), so needs z = S 04:12:27 SSxSSa = SS(xSS)a = Sa(xSSS) oh i see this just keeps being trivial 04:12:47 -!- adu has joined. 04:13:50 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42451&oldid=42437 * Esowiki201529A * (+109) /* self interpreter */ 04:14:36 um *Sa(xSSa) 04:16:03 -!- vodkode__ has left ("Leaving"). 04:16:33 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42452&oldid=42451 * Esowiki201529A * (+6) /* Fibonacci sequence */ 04:20:07 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:25:50 OMG HOW DO I DRAW A FUCKING CIRCLE IN ASCII ART THAT LOOKS LIKE A CIRCLE 04:26:17 i'm completely unable to do it -_- 04:26:38 -_- looks like a good start 04:27:02 c.c 04:27:03 c.c.c 04:27:03 c.c 04:28:18 even bots can 04:28:48 (_) might be a better start 04:29:35 depends how big it should be 04:30:36 enough for a clock >.< 04:32:06 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:33:58 http://ascii.co.uk/art/clock hth 04:37:10 -!- SgeoWeb has joined. 04:42:26 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:49:22 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42453&oldid=42452 * Esowiki201529A * (+2) /* Fibonacci sequence */ 04:49:59 Di oirtabke desktops exist?> 04:50:04 Do portable desktops exist? 04:50:13 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 05:08:45 -!- zadock has joined. 05:12:30 a homerow shift error 05:12:49 gsnvy 05:14:06 > plot (\n -> n `mod` 7) 0 80 05:14:07 No instance for (Enum a0) arising from a use of ‘plot’ 05:14:07 The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous 05:14:08 Note: there are several potential instances: 05:15:28 :t plot 05:15:29 (Enum a1, RealFrac a) => (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> a1 -> Doc 05:15:52 > (0$0`plot`) 05:15:54 The operator ‘plot’ [infixl 9] of a section 05:15:54 must have lower precedence than that of the operand, 05:15:54 namely ‘$’ [infixr 0] 05:16:45 > plot (\n -> fromIntegral (n `mod` 7)) 0 80 05:16:46 ⠀⠀⡠⠂⠀⢀⠔⠀⠀⡠⠂⠀⢀⠔⠀⠀⡠⠂⠀⢀⠔⠀⠀⡠⠂⠀⢀⠔⠀⠀⡠⠂⠀⢀⠔⠀⠀⡠⠂⠀ 05:16:47 ⡠⠊⠀⢀⠔⠁⠀⡠⠊⠀⢀⠔⠁⠀⡠⠊⠀⢀⠔⠁⠀⡠⠊⠀⢀⠔⠁⠀⡠⠊⠀⢀⠔⠁⠀⡠⠊⠀⢀⠔ 05:17:12 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:18:40 > plot (\x -> sin (x*80)) 0 (pi/40) 05:18:41 Terminated 05:18:50 > plot (\x -> sin (x*80)) 0 (pi/40) 05:18:51 Terminated 05:19:03 hmph silly function 05:19:38 > plot (\x -> sin (fromIntegral (x*pi/40))) 0 80 05:19:39 No instance for (Enum a0) arising from a use of ‘plot’ 05:19:39 The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous 05:19:39 Note: there are several potential instances: 05:19:47 * variable looks at oerjan 05:19:55 > plot (\x -> sin (fromIntegral (x*pi/40))) 0 (80::Int) 05:19:57 No instance for (Floating Int) arising from a use of ‘pi’ 05:19:57 In the second argument of ‘(*)’, namely ‘pi’ 05:19:57 In the first argument of ‘(/)’, namely ‘x * pi’ 05:20:01 oops 05:20:18 > plot (\x -> sin (fromIntegral x * pi/40)) 0 (80::Int) 05:20:19 ⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⢄⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉ 05:20:51 wat 05:21:23 > plot (\x -> 2*sin (fromIntegral x * pi/40)) 0 (80::Int) 05:21:24 ⣀⣀⣀⡠⠤⠤⠤⠤⠤⠤⠢⠤⠤⠤⠤⠤⠤⣀⣀⣀⡈⠉⠉⠑⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠉⠉⠉ 05:21:57 i feel this is not how plots should work 05:22:07 > plot (\x -> 1 + 2*sin (fromIntegral x * pi/40)) 0 (80::Int) 05:22:09 ⠤⠤⠤⠔⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠑⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠤⠤⠤⢄⣀⣀⡈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⣀⣀⣀ 05:23:18 > plot (\n -> sqrt(49 - (n-7)*(n-7))) 0 15 05:23:20 ⠀⡠⠒⠊⠒⠢⡀⠀ 05:23:20 ⡈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⡀ 05:24:07 > plot (\n -> 7-sqrt(49 - (n-7)*(n-7))) 0 15 05:24:09 ⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁ 05:24:09 ⠈⠢⣀⣀⣀⡠⠊⠀ 05:24:31 > plot (\x -> 1 + 10*sin (fromIntegral x * pi/40)) 0 (80::Int) 05:24:32 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠤⠔⠒⠒⠑⠒⠒⠤⢄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 05:24:32 ⠀⠀⣀⠔⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠒⢄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 05:24:32 ⠤⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠑⠤⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⠔⢁ 05:24:52 > plot (\x -> 10*(1+sin (fromIntegral x * pi/40))) 0 (80::Int) 05:24:53 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 05:24:53 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠤⠒⠊⠉⠉⠈⠉⠉⠒⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 05:24:53 ⠀⢀⠤⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 05:25:00 sheesh 05:25:28 > plot id 0 80 05:25:29 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 05:25:29 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⠊ 05:25:29 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⠊⠀⠀ 05:25:47 you'd get a better pic in /msg :) 05:26:04 OKAY 05:26:28 no implicit plot? sux 05:34:09 -!- roasted42 has joined. 05:34:24 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 05:34:24 -!- roasted42 has joined. 05:34:25 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 05:49:28 they whould draw the plot to a jpeg and upload it to a server somewhere, then respond with a link 05:52:30 how about take a link to a jpeg and then plot it as ascii? 05:53:39 ok i have no IDEA why my hands want to spell would as whould? 05:54:43 i hacked you 05:56:36 orin: because https://youtu.be/lich59xsjik?t=51s 05:57:22 -!- adu has joined. 06:01:10 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 06:07:35 [wiki] [[Tomagotcha!]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42455 * 0x0dea * (+1838) Add Tomagotcha! "language" 06:10:13 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42456&oldid=42378 * Esowiki201529A * (+5) /* A colon semicolon */ 06:12:20 -!- SgeoWeb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:22:23 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42457&oldid=42372 * Esowiki201529A * (+1133) /* Hello, world */ 06:24:39 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 06:33:47 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:34:44 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:45:07 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42458&oldid=42457 * 0x0dea * (-1133) Remove incorrect "Hello, world!" program 06:53:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4jwzan3AyA 06:55:20 [&]%@*>"Type 'beer' for beer.~Type 'quit' to quit.~"PS [&BEER'BEER],#99>:+,#&VERSE#/"No more bottles of beer on the wall.~"PS [&QUIT'QUIT]GQ+.$0> 06:55:37 [&VERSE#,^#],^#<,^#<<\,^#< I just finish by now to make OASYS assembler with C, this is how to make a kind of beer program with it. Is this program understandable to you? 06:58:19 This example program uses a pointer variable; OAC (the original compiler for OASYS) does not support pointer variables. (OAC also doesn't support macros, doesn't support calling methods before they are defined, etc.) 07:07:57 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:11:06 orin: thanks now i'm finally up to date tdh 07:12:31 well to 2011 anyway 07:15:49 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 07:39:02 What part didn't you understand? 07:44:45 -!- magician has joined. 07:47:01 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:47:01 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780. 07:51:19 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:51:33 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Funciton]] to [[Function]]: Err,Function. 07:51:34 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Talk:Funciton]] to [[Talk:Function]]: Err,Function. 07:52:26 wtf 07:53:51 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Oerjan * moved [[Talk:Function]] to [[Talk:Funciton]] over redirect: No, it's not named that. 07:54:15 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Oerjan * moved [[Function]] to [[Funciton]] over redirect 08:13:40 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] to [[Aplifcldtcitampac]]: Err 08:14:43 [wiki] [[Aplifcldtcitampac]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42467&oldid=42465 * Esowiki201529A * (+14) 08:15:34 -!- j-bot has joined. 08:17:25 [wiki] [[Aplifcldtcitampac]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42468&oldid=42467 * Esowiki201529A * (-14) Undo revision 42467 by [[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]] ([[User talk:Esowiki201529A|talk]]) 08:18:26 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Aplifcldtcitampac]] to [[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] over redirect 08:18:35 -!- idris-bot has joined. 08:22:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:25:25 oerjan: maybe you should tell them how to create redirects without moving twice 08:27:17 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:36:10 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 08:38:36 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:39:38 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42471&oldid=42453 * Esowiki201529A * (+77) /* Hello, World! */ 08:45:38 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42472&oldid=42471 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* Hello, World! */ 08:46:44 -!- jameseb- has changed nick to jameseb. 08:48:33 -!- gniourf has joined. 08:50:51 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42473&oldid=42472 * Esowiki201529A * (+39) /* Hello, World! */ 08:53:04 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42474&oldid=42473 * Esowiki201529A * (+9) /* Hello, World! */ 08:54:19 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42475&oldid=42474 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* Hello, World! */ 08:57:38 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42476&oldid=42475 * Esowiki201529A * (+28) /* Hello, World! */ 09:07:31 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:07:53 elliott: the thought has appeared to me 09:13:27 -!- hassa-aravit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:42:40 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 09:45:56 What's OASYS? 09:52:18 zzo38: does urn:bible include books banned by catholic church? 09:52:29 and you probably need an identifier for "which bible" and "which version" of the bible 09:52:41 -!- Gregor` has joined. 09:53:05 -!- Gregor` has changed nick to Guest47678. 09:53:14 or is that urn:apocrypha? 10:00:56 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 10:00:56 -!- APic has quit (*.net *.split). 10:02:51 > plot (-x -> x) 0 (10 :: Int) 10:02:52 Pattern syntax in expression context: - x -> x 10:02:57 > plot (\x -> x) 0 (10 :: Int) 10:02:59 No instance for (RealFrac Int) arising from a use of ‘plot’ 10:02:59 In the expression: plot (\ x -> x) 0 (10 :: Int) 10:03:15 > plot (\x -> x) 0 (10 :: Float) 10:03:16 ⠀⠀⠀⠀ 10:03:16 ⠀⠀⡠⠊⠀ 10:03:16 ⡠⠊⠀⠀⠀ 10:03:36 > plot (\x -> 1/x) 1 (10 :: Float) 10:03:37 ⢄⣀⣀⣀⣀ 10:03:45 hm ok 10:03:49 > plot (\x -> 1/x) 1 (20 :: Float) 10:03:50 ⢄⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀ 10:03:59 > plot (\x -> 10/x) 1 (20 :: Float) 10:04:00 ⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 10:04:00 ⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 10:04:00 ⠀⠑⠢⠤⠤⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀ 10:04:07 much better. 10:17:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:19:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:24:21 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:27:50 -!- boily has joined. 10:40:20 > plot 10:40:22 No instance for (Typeable a10) 10:40:22 arising from a use of ‘show_M714213049450625511621244’ 10:40:22 In the expression: 10:40:29 hm 10:40:40 I don't suppose @src works for @let'd functions? 10:40:42 @src plot 10:40:43 Source not found. stty: unknown mode: doofus 10:45:52 > plot (\x -> x + 1/x + 1/(1+x)) 1 (20 :: Float) 10:45:53 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀ 10:45:53 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠔⠁ 10:45:53 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠔⠁⠀⠀ 10:46:10 > plot (\x -> x + 1/x + 1/(1+x) + 1/(1/(1+x)))) 1 (20 :: Float) 10:46:12 :1:45: parse error on input ‘)’ 10:46:15 > plot (\x -> x + 1/x + 1/(1+x) + 1/(1/(1+x))) 1 (20 :: Float) 10:46:17 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 10:46:17 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⠁ 10:46:17 ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⠁⠀ 10:51:53 hm 10:52:01 I found a way to calculate log(2) o_O 10:52:17 sum_{i=1}^{N} (1/(N+i)) 10:52:22 approaches log(2) 10:53:24 sum_{i=1}^{N} (1/(x*N+i)) approaches log(1+x^-1) 10:54:03 so by choosing x I can calculate every log \o/ 10:54:03 | 10:54:03 /`\ 10:56:07 mroman, how fast is the convergence 11:00:27 I don't know. 11:00:34 can wolframalpha tell me that? 11:01:50 It doesn't understand convergence rate 11:02:02 you're approximating 1/x by a step function? usually that ends up with with an O(1/N) error term; with some luck, O(1/N^2) if you center the steps on the curve (but you didn't). 11:03:06 I'm approximating log 11:03:23 (1/(x*N+i)) <-- not here 11:03:55 -!- Guest47678 has changed nick to Gregor. 11:04:18 @def myLog N x = sum [1/(x*N+i)|<-[1..N]] 11:04:19 .L.hs:162:7: Not in scope: data constructor ‘N’ 11:04:20 11:04:20 .L.hs:162:27: Not in scope: data constructor ‘N’ 11:04:24 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest75683. 11:04:30 @def myLog n x = sum [1/(x*n+i)|<-[1..n]] 11:04:31 .L.hs:162:34: Not in scope: ‘|<-’ 11:04:35 @def myLog n x = sum [1/(x*n+i)|i<-[1..n]] 11:04:38 Defined. 11:04:48 > myLog 10 1 11:04:50 0.6687714031754279 11:04:54 > logBase 2 10 11:04:55 3.3219280948873626 11:04:59 > logBase 10 2 11:05:00 0.30102999566398114 11:05:02 hu 11:05:12 eh 11:05:14 > log 2 11:05:15 0.6931471805599453 11:05:22 > myLog 100 11:05:23 Double> 11:05:28 > myLog 100 1 11:05:36 0.690653430481824 11:05:36 > myLog 1000 1 11:05:38 0.6928972430599376 11:05:46 > myLog 10000 1 11:05:47 0.6931221811849484 11:05:59 doesn't look like it converges fast :) 11:06:02 > myLog 100000 1 11:06:03 0.6931446805661916 11:06:18 -!- nszceta has joined. 11:06:21 10000 steps for four digits isn't that fast I guess 11:06:26 :i plot 11:06:40 > myLog 100000 2 11:06:42 0.40546427477598784 11:06:45 > log (3/2) 11:06:46 0.4054651081081644 11:06:54 :t plot 11:06:55 (Enum a1, RealFrac a) => (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> a1 -> Doc 11:08:17 What you're doing is to evaluate int_{x}^{x+1} 1/x dx = log(1+1/x) by a (lower) Riemann sum. 11:08:32 @def myLog n x = (sum [1/(x*(n+i))|i<-[1..n]])*x 11:08:33 .L.hs:162:1: Warning: 11:08:33 Pattern match(es) are overlapped 11:08:33 In an equation for ‘myLog’: myLog n x = ... 11:08:38 @def myLog' n x = (sum [1/(x*(n+i))|i<-[1..n]])*x 11:08:42 Defined. 11:08:46 > myLog' 100 1 11:08:48 0.690653430481824 11:09:04 > [log 2, myLog 100 1, myLog' 100 1] 11:09:05 [0.6931471805599453,0.690653430481824,0.690653430481824] 11:10:27 @def let myLog n x = (sum [1/(x*(n+i-1/2))|i<-[1..n]])*x in myLog 100 1 11:10:27 Parse failed: TemplateHaskell is not enabled 11:10:31 > let myLog n x = (sum [1/(x*(n+i-1/2))|i<-[1..n]])*x in myLog 100 1 11:10:33 0.6931440556283007 11:11:13 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:12:00 (This one should have an O(1/N^2) error term, but I don't want to prove that rigorously.) 11:13:40 Help! 11:13:47 I'm trapped in a channel empty of fungots. 11:14:12 (... and full of weirdos) 11:15:47 Why does the UK forbid rageporn? 11:16:04 Shouldn't it be already illegal to upload videos of other people without their consens? 11:17:43 legislating morality 11:17:46 woohoo 11:18:00 anyway, ask 8chan.co 11:18:02 We live in an age of overregulation of private life, and excessive freedom for corporations, in the name of safety and prosperity, respectively. Of course we're missing both targets. 11:18:26 Do everything within the context of a corporation and it's A-OK 11:18:34 (The prosperity one works better, for the top 1%) 11:19:19 hm. perhaps for longer sentences. 11:19:59 Hmm? 11:20:01 it also saved talk shows for another two weeks. 11:20:10 Oh, right, we had that network blip. 11:20:15 In Germany violating personalyt rights like that apperentely gives you 2 years maximum. 11:20:20 *personality 11:20:25 *apparentely 11:20:55 -!- fungot has joined. 11:22:43 mroman: Oh all my convergence rate discussion above assumes that x>0. 11:23:14 what's a summary conviction? 11:24:08 Ah. No jury. I see. 11:29:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNNAMABLE CHICKEN). 11:35:32 ln(2)=sum_{k=1}^\infty 1/(k*2^k) 11:35:36 that'll be a bit faster 11:35:54 it uses the fact that ln(1/2)=-ln(2) and the standard Taylor series for ln at 1 11:36:24 the remainder of the partial sum of order N is less than 1/(N+1)2^N 11:36:41 very likely smaller, but that's a good starting point 11:37:42 more generaly, if you want a ln, you can use the arctanh function 11:50:25 -!- zadock has joined. 11:55:12 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:11:40 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:11:43 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:14:28 -!- rdococ has joined. 12:14:52 hi 12:21:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:23:45 mroman, rageporn? 12:25:23 microwave fungot 12:25:23 b_jonas: i say we should learn it. then i starved to death anyway. let's do it, well, there's diversity in scheme community. it's uniting a substantial subset of the environment 12:25:47 Phantom_Hoover: uploading sex tapes with your ex 12:26:10 revenge porn, then 12:26:10 I wonder if it's possible to create a language, without storage, that is turing complete anyway? 12:26:18 oh. 12:26:22 My english fucked up again :( 12:26:24 rageporn just sounds like people having sex while very, very angry 12:26:24 Yeah, revenge porn. 12:26:26 rdococ: lambda calculus? 12:26:47 rdococ: "storage" is such a malleable term 12:26:49 but didn't UK outlaw BDSM and that stuff anyway some time ago? 12:26:54 ugh, lambda calculus is mentioned again? 12:26:54 true 12:27:16 hmm 12:27:23 nvm. though. 12:28:24 I'm thinking of a language that has curved dimensions, so it loops? or even more esoteric would be a language where the code is run, then a flipped variant, and so on in a mobius strip 12:29:20 mroman, i think what happened is that the film censors in the UK have some very outmoded obscenity rules which have been ignored for a long time because they only applied to the dead-in-the-water industry of videos being sold as tapes or dvds 12:30:22 then their authority was extended to cover internet porn and suddenly everyone realised how regressive they are 12:31:39 -!- tromp_ has joined. 12:32:48 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:34:03 yeah and swiss people kept laughing at the UK for that :) 12:34:20 not realizing that a lot of that stuff is still in the gray-zone of law in switzerland as well 12:37:46 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:48:08 fungot: You starved to death? What do you even eat? 12:48:08 fizzie: the repl will never be a name for that procedure. and those that can handle arbitrary library calls entirely from scheme. 12:51:34 [wiki] [[Object oriented thue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42478&oldid=42400 * 4D enthusiast * (+432) 12:52:44 -!- rdococ has joined. 12:52:59 hmm 12:53:30 is it possible to make a language which is turing complete even if you can only use three instructions in a program? 12:54:37 As in, three instructions total for the whole program? 12:54:43 Interesting question 12:55:06 fungot, why is github so popular? 12:55:06 b_jonas: somebody sort of gave it away. i found that extremely simple :) and conceived with dumb compiler in mind :) 12:55:20 An instruction could be "execute this data using a different universal turing machine" 12:55:28 fungot: unary or radixal? 12:55:28 b_jonas: and god created the heaven and the earth. and the debt is growing like hell. maybe they've fixed some of this 12:57:14 Fancy L? 12:57:25 so uhm this is just a mockup but how does it look? http://arin.ga/kjG5Kw/raw 12:58:37 FreeFull: that's called cheating lol 12:59:27 it doesn't matter if it has to be looped, it just has to be three instructions 12:59:37 other than loop syntax 13:00:04 infact I'd prefer if it looped. 13:00:08 rdococ: As long as the instructions are allowed to provide an arbitrary amount of data, and the language has an infinite number of states, you certainly can make it turing complete 13:00:46 Can I just use 1 and 0 to encode instructions? 13:00:59 If you limit the size of the program including the data, it's not turing complete because there are things that a turing complete language could compute, but this language couldn't 13:01:00 thats why I had the idea of an infinite state machine and regexp matching 13:01:03 and then using a state machine behind using some prefix-free "instructions" 13:01:26 1 and 0 are instructions that switch to a state and check if it arrived at a state with an action 13:01:33 then execute that action. 13:02:36 an infinite state machine would be like an FSM, but it would have infinitely many states generated by regexp based transitions. For example, you could do string $1 - concat $2 -> string $1$2, which would work for any $1 and $2. 13:02:46 so, using my example, string derp -- concat herp -> string derpherp 13:02:59 Because I can encode braifuck this way... no problem. 13:04:56 there are languages that only work by string replacement 13:05:16 oh wait 13:05:19 I know 13:05:22 there's sed ^^ 13:05:30 and I had one but I didn't make an article about it 13:05:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:05:39 nope forget what I said... that was stupid. 13:05:54 well its possible 13:06:23 using regexp matching and string replacement, its possible to do pretty much anything 13:06:35 idk if that means turing complete or not 13:08:09 ugh 13:08:11 my internet is terrible 13:12:23 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:12:27 You need infinitely many possible input states to have infinitely many possible output states 13:14:46 -!- Guest75683 has changed nick to Gregor. 13:18:05 Do you need infinitely many possible output states? 13:18:48 Maybe your output is limited to True/False. 13:26:10 http://lisperator.net/pltut/ cool resource ^^ 13:28:39 want to do lisp? 13:28:58 no it's not about lisp >.> 13:29:21 you should say: “yes, I want to do Lisp” 13:31:10 [wiki] [[Object oriented thue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42479&oldid=42478 * Esowiki201529A * (+11) /* stdio */ 13:33:04 fungot: Do you want to do LISP? 13:33:04 mroman: and implementing it in d or asm? /me boggle? 13:33:16 Sure, I have nothing against a LISP interpreter in asm. 13:33:48 Even better if it can fit on a floppy disc boot sector. 13:35:21 fungot: Would you want to be written in LISP? 13:35:22 mroman: is the official brainfuck forum. it happened to you? :) ( i'm attracted to these types of tools too. 13:36:38 [wiki] [[Object oriented thue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42480&oldid=42479 * Esowiki201529A * (+50) /* stdio */ 13:39:47 [wiki] [[Object oriented thue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42481&oldid=42480 * 4D enthusiast * (+1253) rewrote syntax description, modified file & time library definitions, fixed 99 bottles of beer program 13:47:16 -!- APic has joined. 13:56:25 fungot: There's a brainfuck forum? 13:56:25 mroman: the explanation is really bad... i've got a bunch in sequence, with no macros, lambda severely limited, slow. because i think they point to the page 14:00:45 where does it take these quotes from? 14:02:01 ^style 14:02:02 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 14:02:09 ^style irc 14:02:09 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 14:02:45 izabera: note that they're not quotes; fungot uses a markov-like model for babbling 14:02:45 int-e: i can think of things like fnord in srfi-1? laml? tspl? srfi-news? 14:03:02 nice 14:03:21 And "fnord" stands for an infrequent word, for example. Fizzie can probably tell you all about it. 14:03:50 ^style enron 14:03:50 Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset) 14:03:56 fungot: email me? 14:03:56 int-e: didn't know that the are two sections resulting in the lowest and highest fares found for your routes to get out any paper on the california power market. 14:07:21 fungot: what do you think of fraud? 14:07:21 int-e: i don't that will here tomorrow." ???contact john woolfolk at jwoolfolksjmercury.com ?mailto:jwoolfolksjmercury.com or the new in the thinkbank and find the full, and their work on the monday meeting on the construction industry the tariff. 14:07:23 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:07:48 ^style irc 14:07:48 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 14:09:30 -!- cirillo74 has joined. 14:09:36 -!- cirillo74 has quit (Client Quit). 14:16:33 fungot: Interest in a ponsy scheme? 14:16:34 mroman: or what id id) you can still find the original reppy paper not on acm. must have. i only care about the alphabet 14:17:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:18:06 a ponzy scheme? or a ponys scheme? 14:23:51 ponzi 14:24:09 b_jonas: It's a ponzy scheme with ponys. 14:24:10 hmm, this may have been intentional 14:24:17 therefore I created a new word ponsy scheme 14:24:18 I hate this channel, everyone's so smart :) 14:24:41 although it's probably ponies 14:24:47 I hate you. 14:24:58 fungot: Except you. You're okay. 14:24:58 mroman: welcome to drscheme, just because you are trying to access 14:40:29 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 14:53:59 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest75683. 14:55:57 ^style qwantz 14:55:57 Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) 14:56:00 fungot: fnord 14:56:00 mroman: in the second example, there," came a cry from across the room, you can reconstruct you from those! this algorithm for relationship satisfaction. tada! 14:56:24 fungot: An algorithm for relationship satisfaction would probably be worth a lot of money. 14:56:24 mroman: as a man concerned, t-rex, that going shopping was your default activity?" 14:56:51 fungot: I like shopping. 14:57:07 damn I exceeded my limit again. 15:04:05 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Esowiki201529A * uploaded "[[File:Funciton-factorial-call.png]]" 15:05:58 -!- Sprocklem_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:06:13 fungot: What is a funciton? 15:06:13 int-e: but to compare, the number of burgers to eat when i get one 15:06:37 -!- nycs has joined. 15:06:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:06:43 `learn A funciton is the number of burgers to eat when I get one. 15:07:06 fungot: thanks 15:07:06 int-e: all i've got to show for the past week is a bunch a few nights later. now it's only used when it's time to make some changes around here, you were a real dick on the internet!!" it's enough to make me put down the newspaper, fold it in two, smooth. 15:07:23 Learned 'funciton': A funciton is the number of burgers to eat when I get one. 15:08:56 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:10:13 [wiki] [[File:Funciton-factorial-call.png]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42483&oldid=42482 * Esowiki201529A * (+12) 15:17:37 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 15:27:06 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:32:24 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 15:36:25 -!- tswrcclt has joined. 15:54:37 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:58:44 neat. https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858#comment:84 (for shachaf, oerjan and Taneb?) 15:59:08 :))) 15:59:21 (as usual I did not see any e-mail notification for this) 16:00:39 Although I deserve none of the credit for that 16:02:09 oerjan++ 16:02:10 shachaf++ 16:02:20 @karma oerjan 16:02:20 oerjan has a karma of 28 16:02:23 @karma 16:02:23 You have a karma of 8 16:02:30 @karma shachaf 16:02:30 shachaf has a karma of 84 16:02:47 @karma taneb 16:02:47 taneb has a karma of 15 16:03:45 -!- variable has joined. 16:08:35 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:19:40 @karma Phantom_Hoover 16:19:40 You have a karma of 3 16:19:53 an outrage 16:20:27 @karma 16:20:27 You have a karma of 1 16:20:46 yay 16:22:45 Phantom_Hoover++ 16:23:08 FireFly++ 16:24:30 I'm not sure what I deserve karma for, but thanks 16:38:43 -!- tertu has joined. 16:47:26 @karma Taneb 16:47:26 Taneb has a karma of 15 16:47:31 @karma mroman 16:47:31 You have a karma of 0 16:48:14 what's the scoring? 16:55:42 mroman++ <-- random scoring 17:01:46 -!- Guest75683 has changed nick to Gregor. 17:03:31 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:04:36 -!- aretecode has joined. 17:11:14 Now you have to fix DOSBOX to support CGA hicolor 17:12:55 And other features of 8088 MPH demo. 17:13:24 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 17:17:01 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:22:43 -!- bb010g has joined. 17:24:55 @karma 17:24:56 You have a karma of 0 17:37:32 -!- dianne has joined. 17:39:57 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:50:15 -!- tswrcclt has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:54:01 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:54:01 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 17:54:01 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:55:31 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 17:59:42 @karma 17:59:42 You have a karma of 1 17:59:45 @karma 17:59:45 You have a karma of 1 17:59:53 @karma 17:59:53 You have a karma of 0 17:59:55 yay? 18:00:08 haha 18:00:14 fungot: What's your karma? 18:00:14 mroman: in a good story, they function in an undiagnosable way? for instance, i've recently picked up a hobby, and it's been super great! i signed up for an english as a second language course. 18:00:17 @karma fungot 18:00:17 fungot has a karma of 8 18:00:17 mroman: you you dedicated bible ii to me?? 18:00:29 Yeah I dedicated a bible to fungot. 18:00:29 mroman: t-rex, i don't know! maybe! i've never been to the bottom of a bottle. 18:00:32 I forgot to mention that. 18:03:11 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 18:14:33 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 18:32:24 -!- nszceta has joined. 18:41:27 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42484&oldid=42434 * Rdococ * (+20) 18:41:50 -!- roasted42 has joined. 18:42:48 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 18:42:48 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Changing host). 18:42:48 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has joined. 18:47:35 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: bye). 19:07:25 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:13:19 -!- adu has joined. 19:18:40 heh, "The astonishingly-ingenious trio of Shachaf Ben-Kiki, Ørjan Johansen and Nathan van Doorn managed to persuade GHC 7.10.1 to cough up unsafeCoerce." 19:18:56 Can logic-based and aspect-oriented and reactive and rule-based programming be combined together if the input format is RDF? 19:19:06 (from the commit message of the fix) 19:19:17 olsner: I saw that too yes 19:20:23 I've no idea what that means, but let's see 19:20:29 `8-ball Can logic-based and aspect-oriented and reactive and rule-based programming be combined together if the input format is RDF? 19:20:32 Yes. 19:20:40 fungot, Can logic-based and aspect-oriented and reactive and rule-based programming be combined together if the input format is RDF? 19:20:40 b_jonas: you you dedicated bible ii to me?? it wat that easy! it's like buying a game that sounds like a crazy friday as weekend, why not monday too? 19:20:45 that 8-ball response is wrong 19:20:49 `cat bin/8-ball 19:20:53 ​#!/bin/sh \ shuf -n 1 share/8ballreplies 19:21:03 Deciding the answer by randomly doesn't seem the way to do it in this circumstance. 19:21:05 `cat share/8ballreplies 19:21:05 It is certain. \ It is decidedly so. \ Without a doubt. \ Yes definitely. \ You may rely on it. \ As I see it, yes. \ Most likely. \ Outlook good. \ Yes. \ Signs point to yes. \ Reply hazy try again. \ Ask again later. \ Better not tell you now. \ Cannot predict now. \ Concentrate and ask again. \ Don't count on it. \ My reply is no. \ My sources s 19:21:17 (It also does not tell you how even if the answer is yes.) 19:21:31 yes, I wouldn't trust the 8-ball 19:23:04 I suppose 8-ball can still be use in case you do need to decide the answer at random, but my question isn't that kind of question. 19:27:27 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 19:29:13 olsner: oh, there was another unsafeCoerce? 19:32:22 It's the ((),()) => () unsafeCoerce 19:32:37 elliott: it might be the same 19:34:19 trac link? 19:35:48 -!- Hijiri has joined. 19:40:30 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:46:42 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858 19:47:07 -!- adu has joined. 19:50:21 [wiki] [[State]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42485&oldid=42433 * Rdococ * (+229) examples 19:51:07 [wiki] [[State]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42486&oldid=42485 * Rdococ * (-4) /* Examples */ 19:51:30 [wiki] [[State]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42487&oldid=42486 * Rdococ * (+2) /* Examples */ 20:14:37 * oerjan wakes up 20:15:17 excuse me while i bask in fame 20:16:12 hellørjan 20:16:25 hello fellow famous guy 20:18:58 yay 20:19:07 I can add this to the list, alongside "ferociously-unintuitive". 20:20:11 wat 20:20:25 what did you get that for 20:21:36 gcast Refl 20:22:12 I guess SPJ isn't used to Leibniz equality. 20:22:13 :t gcast Refl 20:22:13 forall (k :: BOX) (a :: k) (b :: k). (Typeable a, Typeable b) => Maybe (a :~: b) 20:22:13 https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/libraries/2013-March/019470.html 20:24:47 I think SPJ's fix takes this too far. 20:24:57 E.g. it breaks the Typeable instance for Dict. 20:25:31 There's nothing even somewhat impredicative about that. 20:25:36 isn't it a temporary fix? 20:25:36 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:26:50 I got the impression it was intended for at least one release? 20:28:59 i do find it a bit disappointing how all the #9858 fixes remove some features 20:29:11 but i've already nagged enough about that 20:29:44 features like unsafeCoerce 20:30:19 i mean like deriving Typeable (Proxy a) from Typeable a 20:30:56 (polykindedly) 20:31:21 Yes. 20:32:14 there's probably something involving type lists that gets really awkward because of it. 20:32:52 because you also cannot derive Typeable (a ': as) i think 20:33:50 what's an ': 20:33:56 otoh uses of Typeable and uses of fake dependent typing are probably a bit disjoint 20:34:04 oh 20:34:10 b_jonas: : promoted to a type 20:34:11 lifted (:) infix 20:34:14 right 20:34:36 well i vaguely recall that's the notation, i've never used it. 20:39:27 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 20:42:49 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:44:51 oh all the gcasts are written with eqT now 20:48:38 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:50:19 -!- vodkode has joined. 20:51:00 -!- Hijiri has joined. 20:51:48 -!- nszceta_ has joined. 20:53:11 edwardk: shachaf's comment might be relevant to your interests E.g. it breaks the Typeable instance for Dict. 20:53:31 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:53:39 hm 20:53:40 Oh, edwardk is here. 20:53:47 well he seems a bit idle 20:55:03 @tell edwardk shachaf points out that the last fix for #9858 breaks e.g. Typeable Dict 20:55:04 Consider it noted. 20:58:53 -!- nszceta_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:59:13 :t plot 20:59:14 (Enum a1, RealFrac a) => (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> a1 -> Doc 20:59:18 :t L.plot 20:59:20 (Enum a1, RealFrac a) => (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> a1 -> Doc 21:05:40 @list def 21:05:40 No module "def" loaded 21:05:45 @help def 21:05:45 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 21:05:56 @list let 21:05:56 eval provides: run let define letlpaste undefine 21:12:22 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:14:49 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 21:21:19 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:26:55 "GHC 7.4 gave us the ability to talk about ConstraintKinds. They stopped crashing the compiler in GHC 7.6." 21:36:33 um... what? 21:37:03 I don't see how a compiler can meaningfully be said to support somthing if it crashes 21:37:06 comment on the top of edwardk's constraints package 21:37:32 orin: it's irony hth 21:37:40 ah 21:42:22 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:44:47 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 21:52:23 -!- tertu has joined. 22:02:41 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:02:48 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:03:49 ooh neat 22:04:12 if you have all of SKI, then flat combinator calculus can express (.) as S I K S K 22:04:33 :t ap id const ap const 22:04:34 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 22:04:34 b ~ (a -> a -> a) -> a -> b 22:04:34 Expected type: ((a -> (a -> a) -> b) -> (a -> a -> a) -> a -> b) 22:04:39 hmph 22:07:00 :t ap id const ap 22:07:01 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a ~ b -> a -> b1 22:07:01 Expected type: ((b -> a -> b1) -> (b -> a) -> b -> b1) 22:07:01 -> b -> a -> b1 22:07:06 :t ap id const 22:07:07 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 22:07:07 a ~ (b1 -> a) -> b 22:07:07 Expected type: ((b1 -> a) -> b) -> b1 -> a 22:07:17 oh right 22:07:51 :t ap id 22:07:51 ((a -> b) -> a) -> (a -> b) -> b 22:14:37 > tyConPackage $ typeRepTyCon $ typeOf $ fromList [(1,2)] 22:14:38 Couldn't match expected type ‘Item r0’ with actual type ‘(t0, t1)’ 22:14:38 The type variables ‘t0’, ‘t1’, ‘r0’ are ambiguous 22:14:38 In the expression: (1, 2) 22:14:55 > tyConPackage $ typeRepTyCon $ typeOf $ fromList [(1::Int,2::Int)] 22:14:56 Couldn't match expected type ‘Item r0’ 22:14:56 with actual type ‘(Int, Int)’ 22:14:56 The type variable ‘r0’ is ambiguous 22:15:19 > tyConPackage $ typeRepTyCon $ typeOf $ Data.Map.fromList [(1,2)] 22:15:21 Not in scope: ‘Data.Map.fromList’ 22:15:28 > tyConPackage $ typeRepTyCon $ typeOf $ M.fromList [(1,2)] 22:15:29 "conta_47ajk3tbda43DFWyeF3oHQ" 22:15:54 :t tyConPackage $ typeRepTyCon $ typeOf $ M.fromList [(1,2)] 22:15:55 String 22:17:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:23:09 it's _really_ annoying that the ghc 7.10.1 online docs have broken source links. 22:28:08 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:29:59 oerjan: By the way, someone linked to https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/03/minghc-ghc-7-10 in #haskell recently. 22:30:34 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 22:30:42 ? 22:30:51 what did i even do this time 22:31:09 you hinted that i should install minghc tdnh hth 22:31:24 wait, is there something bad about minghc 22:31:41 I thought the main reason to wait for the Haskell Platform on Windows was that GHC didn't come with an installer. 22:33:43 i like that it comes with precompiled packages. 22:33:48 and winghci. 22:34:15 ok 22:34:18 what's with the swatter 22:34:27 *MWAHAHAHA* 22:34:37 puns don't cut it anymore? 22:35:06 also, i _really_ thought the plan to get a platform out in about a week was going to work. 22:35:18 but obviously it snagged somewhere. 22:35:56 or maybe they saw #9858 and decided to wait. 23:00:33 -!- Hijiri has joined. 23:06:40 -!- Hijiri has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:11:59 hm dependent on exactly what Kind.isConstraintKind checks, there might be a way to get around spj's fix... 23:12:51 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 23:17:14 not allowing Typeable on Constraint seems sad. 23:17:22 isn't GHC meant to be gettin more unified 23:17:28 yeah 23:17:50 also, I'm not sure HP is going to get another release, from what I vaguely heard a while ago. 23:18:03 oh 23:18:07 I guess your information is newer than mine 23:18:37 this was after 7.10.1 came out 23:18:38 -!- Hijiri has joined. 23:34:06 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:38:42 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:38:49 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:42:43 is Typeable on Constraint impredicative because you have Typeable Typeable? 2015-04-15: 00:00:35 -!- encapsulation has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:09:50 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:16:04 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest75683. 00:24:27 i love how 'hey we'll slip a little infelicity into the type system for some sweet sweet sugar becomes' "oh fuck" 00:24:48 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42488&oldid=42476 * Esowiki201529A * (+443) /* Example */ 00:25:01 er the quotes there were somewhat random =) 00:25:54 you know this is fixable. we typecheck these tuples correctly in ermine. 00:27:17 baking the result of isConstraintKind k into the TypeRep should work about as well, shouldn't it? 00:27:19 we explored something similar to the "limited sub-superkinding" system at the end of http://comonad.com/reader/2011/what-constraints-entail-part-1/ but switched to using another level of quantification like SPJ proposed to fix the need for sub-superkinding 00:29:19 basically if you replace kind * # and Constraint with a single kind (Sort a b) -- where a and b can range over a very simple domain say {T, F}, then you can talk about * as Sort T T, Constraint as Sort T F, and # as Sort F T, then using quantifiers over a and b lets you talk about the ambiguity of the kinds involved. 00:29:43 now type () has kind forall a. Sort T a 00:30:12 type (,) has kind forall a. Sort T a -> Sort T a -> Sort T a 00:30:44 type (->) has kind forall a b. Sort a T -> Sort b T -> Sort T T 00:30:48 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:30:55 and type inference proceeds as usual. 00:31:26 Sort F F us currently uninhabited but would be used for 'unboxed constraints' if they ever existed. 00:31:27 edwardk: make T a variable and include unboxed typles as well? >:) 00:31:33 *u 00:31:44 unboxed tuples fit into # now. 00:31:52 so Sort F T covers them 00:32:14 i mean you could unify all three (,)s, maybe 00:32:39 doesn't work, because you want * -> * -> # for (#,#) 00:32:51 as well as # -> * -> # etc 00:33:03 ok 00:34:18 do you know what exactly isConstraintKind k checks in that fix? i'm wondering if it only hits the type being of kind Constraint itself, so (=>) and Ord unapplied still work? 00:34:44 type (#,#) has kind forall a b. Sort a T -> Sort b T -> Sort F T 00:34:47 (not that they're much useful without constraints) 00:34:51 no idea 00:35:22 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42489&oldid=42488 * Esowiki201529A * (+69) /* 99 bottles of beer */ 00:35:35 anyways the above encoding is enough to solve the problem for good, but its a lot more invasive. 00:43:57 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 00:44:08 Apparently replacing the HD of the model I want nulls and voids the warranty 00:44:10 :( 00:44:56 suddenly the trac is sending out Cc:s again, maybe they fixed it 00:45:12 or well, i didn't get goldfire's comment 00:46:59 Hmm, Show is still Typeable after the change. 00:47:05 Show Int isn't. 00:49:09 that means (,) _constructor_ is also Typeable. 00:49:25 in fact i suspect the only thing you cannot get around is () :) 00:49:37 Sgeo|web: Your mistake there is getting a warranty 00:49:58 oerjan: how can (,) be Typeable if you can't even refer to it? 00:50:00 oh and NullaryConstraints 00:50:02 foiled 00:50:11 orin: I've heard that this laptop might sometimes stop working, according to reviews 00:50:14 So a bit scared by that 00:50:18 shachaf: you can tease it out with some type equalities 00:50:29 Oh, you managed to do that? 00:50:45 i think i did, maybe i should recheck 00:50:45 Something like what I was doing with Proxy to avoid KindSignatures? 00:50:57 I thought I tried it here and it didn't work but I didn't try very hard. 00:52:59 > let x :: forall a b c. (a b c ~ (Ord Int, Show Int)) => TypeRep; x = typeRep (Proxy a) in x 00:53:01 Couldn't match expected type ‘Expr -> proxy0 a0’ 00:53:01 with actual type ‘Proxy t0’ 00:53:01 The function ‘Proxy’ is applied to one argument, 00:53:10 oops hm 00:53:22 > let x :: forall a b c. (a b c ~ (Ord Int, Show Int)) => TypeRep; x = typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy a) in x 00:53:23 Could not deduce (Typeable a) arising from a use of ‘typeRep’ 00:53:23 from the context (a b c ~ (Ord Int, Show Int)) 00:53:23 bound by the type signature for 00:53:29 oh 00:54:14 > let x :: forall (a :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint) b c. (a b c ~ (Ord Int, Show Int)) => TypeRep; x = typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy a) in x 00:54:16 (,) 00:54:40 ah 00:55:00 Sgeo|web: Did any hardware engineers take a look at the cases where it stops working? 00:55:22 Not that I know of 00:55:53 why in the world does it require a kind signature there 00:56:06 oerjan: ok, i posted a version of my encoding above to the trac 00:56:58 Hmm... I would try to find a different model then. 00:57:56 shachaf: can you tease out Typeable (Ord Int) from HEAD by deriving the parts separately? 00:59:26 if you cannot, that means it breaks polykindedness of type application, which is about the only feature this new system had... 00:59:52 of course, I tend to be conservative in my use of technology 01:00:02 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 01:00:53 so it depends on your tradeoff of risk of failure versus awesomeness of the laptop 01:01:37 λ> let foo :: forall a b. (Typeable a, Typeable b) => Proxy a -> Proxy b -> Proxy (a b) -> TypeRep; foo _ _ _ = typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (a b)) in foo (Proxy :: Proxy Ord) (Proxy :: Proxy Int) (Proxy :: Proxy (Ord Int)) 01:01:41 Ord Int 01:01:44 hth 01:01:54 (typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Ord Int)) is an error) 01:05:13 shachaf: you could make a post about this, if () is the only thing effectively forbidden... 01:06:52 (being the only builtin NullaryConstraint) 01:07:31 it is still quite possible that's enough to close the exploit holes, but... 01:08:11 i don't _quite_ trust that yet. 01:08:29 That's pretty fishy. 01:15:00 -!- tertu has joined. 01:19:36 edwardk: i thought -> could return unboxed values too... 01:21:26 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42490&oldid=42484 * Rdococ * (+54) 01:22:15 shachaf: are you writing a post or should i do it 01:22:55 -!- Froox has joined. 01:26:35 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:38:07 oerjan: I'm not writing it right now, at any rate. 01:38:17 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:49:06 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:51:10 -!- tertu has joined. 01:51:34 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 01:51:38 shachaf: btw you _did_ test your example above in HEAD, not just lambdabot? 01:51:50 er 01:51:56 * oerjan reading comprehension 01:52:15 -!- tertu has quit (Client Quit). 01:56:03 -!- rdococ has joined. 01:57:27 -!- rdococ has quit (Client Quit). 01:59:40 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42491&oldid=42490 * Rdococ * (+99) 02:01:51 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42492&oldid=42179 * 68.39.240.189 * (+123) /* Befunge-93 */ 02:03:43 shachaf: posted hth 02:04:19 * oerjan barely resisted the urge to include the "shachaf> hth" line in the quote 02:06:12 oerjan: The second line works in HEAD. 02:12:27 nu pizza 02:12:30 yay 02:13:08 i couldn't see any particular reason why it shouldn't when Ord worked, so. 02:13:19 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:25:02 hm the special property of () is that it's the only type that has ambiguous kind and TypeRep even if none of its arguments do. 02:26:01 everything else either includes kind information or has the output kind determined by the argument kinds 02:29:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:29:40 oh hm that's technically not what i wanted to say 02:29:54 (,) has ambiguous kind unapplied 02:30:46 _however_, there is nothing that can take it as an unapplied argument which doesn't include kind information 02:31:38 what about (,) hth 02:31:42 > typeRep (Proxy (Proxy :: '[] -> *)) 02:31:43 :1:33: parse error on input ‘*’ 02:31:57 bah ... oh 02:32:02 > typeRep (Proxy :: (Proxy :: '[] -> *)) 02:32:03 :1:29: parse error on input ‘'’ 02:32:12 > typeRep (Proxy :: (Proxy :: [] -> *)) 02:32:13 :1:30: parse error on input ‘]’ 02:32:44 > typeRep (Proxy :: (Proxy :: () -> *)) 02:32:46 Expecting one more argument to ‘Proxy’ 02:32:46 Expected a type, but ‘Proxy’ has kind ‘() -> *’ 02:32:46 In an expression type signature: (Proxy :: () -> *) 02:32:53 > typeRep (Proxy :: (Proxy (() -> *))) 02:32:54 :1:33: parse error on input ‘*’ 02:33:04 > typeRep (Proxy :: (Proxy ('() -> *))) 02:33:06 :1:34: parse error on input ‘*’ 02:33:20 did int-e turn off DataKinds 02:34:09 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: () -> *)) 02:34:10 Proxy 02:34:30 that looks a bit weak 02:34:42 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: '[] -> *)) 02:34:43 :1:35: parse error on input ‘'’ 02:34:56 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: [] -> *)) 02:34:58 :1:36: parse error on input ‘]’ 02:35:17 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: [*] -> *)) 02:35:19 Proxy 02:35:24 oh 02:35:41 still, what happened to the kind-sensitivity 02:35:55 > > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: [*] -> *)) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: () -> *)) 02:35:56 :1:1: parse error on input ‘>’ 02:36:02 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: [*] -> *)) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: () -> *)) 02:36:03 False 02:36:34 λ> typeRepKinds $ typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (Proxy :: [*] -> *)) 02:36:34 [[] *] 02:38:14 what about (,) hth <-- ((,),) ? makes no sense hth 02:39:31 ((a,b),(c,d)) hth 02:39:35 it doesn't make much sense either way 02:40:06 shachaf: i specifically said that the (,) argument had to not have arguments hth 02:40:24 because otherwise, a and b determine its kind 02:40:45 Oh, right. 02:41:06 Wait, do they? 02:41:12 (,) isn't polykinded. 02:45:44 my gpu is at 82°C 02:45:50 is that good or bad or average? 02:45:53 this is a laptop 02:47:12 (,) has two kinds, * -> * -> * and Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint 02:47:37 it was more of a "no base case" sort of joke 02:47:40 it wasn't very good 02:47:53 shachaf: probably fine 02:48:00 wat 02:48:28 never mind 02:48:55 I've run laptops at 130-140 for weeks on end with no problems 02:49:30 wtf 02:49:37 omg 02:50:03 how did you not burn your fingers 02:50:04 wait, this is the one case where you really _should_ say 02:50:07 bbq 02:50:31 yeah but omg should come first then 02:50:42 quintopia: I have a burn mark on my right hand from falling asleep with my hand on a laptop 02:50:53 * oerjan swats quintopia for breaking the joke on the first step -----### 02:51:18 oh...so this isnt a joke. just real idiocy. cool. 02:51:28 yup 02:52:01 well not cool. the opposite of cool. 02:52:13 hot? 02:52:13 —————♯♯♯ 02:52:26 shachaf: your imitation falls flat hth 02:52:34 oh wait 02:52:45 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 02:52:54 * oerjan isn't very sharp at the moment 02:53:38 but i do think sharpening a swatter is overdoing it. 02:54:34 the real upgrade was in the handle 02:54:47 ーー蟲蟲 02:56:06 now thats a powerful swatter 02:56:14 is it electrified 02:57:08 no but this bugswatter is literalyy made of bugs 02:57:23 looks mushy to me 02:58:22 WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW 02:58:47 mushi de ippai 03:16:02 [wiki] [[Hashes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42493&oldid=42217 * Esowiki201529A * (+21) 03:18:36 ah. DISPLAYTITLE has restrictions. 03:21:20 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 03:23:15 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42494&oldid=42417 * Esowiki201529A * (+27) 03:24:03 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42495&oldid=42494 * Esowiki201529A * (-2) 03:25:18 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42496&oldid=42495 * Esowiki201529A * (+6) 03:34:31 -!- password2 has joined. 03:49:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:06:56 -!- vodkode_ has left ("Leaving"). 04:16:17 Is Bitlocker safe? 04:16:55 As in, if I start using Bitlocker, does that mean it's safe for me to send an intact laptop to be serviced without worrying about techs getting access to passwords etc? 04:17:16 Combine that with encrypted cloud backup, and I won't have to worry about losing my data if I do that 04:17:24 = no need to pull out HDs 04:22:42 -!- Hijiri has joined. 04:32:35 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[State]] to [[Tar]]: Instead of just scrapping this and creating a similar one in its place... 04:37:25 Sounds like a lot of work just to avoid removing the drive. 04:37:52 [wiki] [[Tar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42499&oldid=42497 * Rdococ * (-491) Changes to everything, making it harder 04:58:25 -!- variable has joined. 04:59:06 -!- mitchs has quit (Quit: mitchs). 04:59:33 Avoiding removing the drive avoids voiding warranties and drop protection and the like 05:04:40 AUGHH this is disgusting. because of these serrated discs, my dwrves have to haul each part of the troglodyte to the atomsmasher separately 05:06:22 You could use bitlocker I suppose... I would just store all sensitive data on an SD card or something 05:09:47 Hmm is it possible to configure firefox to put its password stuff on a removable drive? 05:11:13 -!- mitchs has joined. 05:12:30 dwarfort? 05:12:45 not an answer to your question 05:17:51 Yeah. I'm almost done draining the ocean 05:19:13 [wiki] [[Tar]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42500&oldid=42499 * Rdococ * (-10) /* Structure */ 05:24:51 like most DF endeavours, this involves dwarf sacrifice 05:28:31 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 05:28:50 -!- variable has joined. 05:29:00 my FPS was down to 5, now it's up to 13 05:35:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:42:45 I wouldn't trust BitLocker against a government. I'd trust it against random tech support people. 05:50:00 you have to be sure they're sufficiently random hth 05:59:33 oerjan: it can. (->) :: Sort a T -> Sort b T -> Sort T T -- Sort b T is the 'return' kind. the Sort T T is the kind of the function itself. 05:59:54 ...duh. 06:00:10 np 06:00:14 screwed with me at first too =) 06:01:14 i am thinking that separating () :: Constraint and () :: * is all that is needed to stop this bug without outlawing Typeable constraints. 06:01:38 although intuitively, tuples and -> vs. => should also be separated. 06:02:31 and also, as i commented, outlawing Typeable (() :: Constraint) is the only thing the fix does properly. 06:03:45 Let me post that. 06:11:11 [wiki] [[Tar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42501&oldid=42500 * Rdococ * (+1396) Added interpreter 06:11:44 -!- rdococ has joined. 06:12:16 People say turing tarpit... 06:12:24 I say finite state automaton tarpit. 06:14:47 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42502&oldid=42491 * Rdococ * (-8) added tar 06:19:48 edwardk: i guess i made an alternative proposal or three. 06:20:40 and _that_ i got a Cc: this is so random... 06:20:48 *a CC: for. 06:23:38 > typeRep (Proxy::Proxy(Proxy::'[()]->*)) == typeRep (Proxy::Proxy(Proxy::[()]->*)) 06:23:39 :1:30: parse error on input ‘'’ 06:24:29 why doesn't lambdabot accept promoted datatypes. or wait isn't '[()] legal. 06:24:42 oerjan: dunno, try '[] () maybe 06:25:09 or ('[] ()) 06:25:13 or something 06:25:38 oh wait 06:25:50 you don't use that at the kind level, do you. 06:27:14 > typeRep (Proxy::Proxy '()) == typeRep (Proxy::Proxy ()) 06:27:16 False 06:27:21 there you go 06:29:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:31:59 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:33:26 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:34:52 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:35:37 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 06:38:54 opinions on this? https://gist.github.com/izabera/b2dc6515c7cfb05fc500 06:42:34 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42503&oldid=42502 * Rdococ * (-190) /* My esoteric programming languages */ 06:43:23 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42504&oldid=42503 * Rdococ * (-52) 06:46:29 oerjan: your suggestion is more or less what i was thinking hth 06:46:48 thx 06:46:54 hthx 06:47:30 maybe i should say it's more or less what i would've thought if i'd thought about it 06:47:35 ok, maybe i should just say i agree 06:47:52 OKAY 06:54:00 izabera: can you program it? 06:54:12 what? 06:54:23 program in it 06:54:28 can you program in it? 06:54:29 in what? 06:54:41 that clock 06:54:43 the code you linked to 06:54:47 no it's a clock -_- 06:54:52 lol 06:55:04 it made me think of alarm clock radio 06:55:46 my joke's funny, right? 06:56:06 allot :P 06:56:47 you know, if you smoke, you'll get http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tar and shameless self-advertisement in your body. 06:57:07 ...get it? it's called Tar? ...no? 06:57:44 rdococ: apropos shameless self-advertisement, you mentioned string search and replace languages so i must point you at http://esolangs.org/wiki//// 06:58:02 it's so unfunny, it crossed the line where unfunny things become funny and is still unfunny there :p 06:58:07 s////Thue 06:58:08 (i did not invent it, but i did much of the rest.) 06:58:30 s/s////Thue/s/////Thue 06:58:32 rdococ: /// is simpler hth 06:58:52 string replacement is cool though 06:58:54 is sed not esoteric enough? 06:59:03 rdococ: I don't get it. how is it related to tar (the program already called tar)? 06:59:10 izabera: too many useless operations hth 06:59:18 b_jonas: what related to tar? 06:59:18 rdococ: I understand why "Folders" is called that, but not "Tar" 06:59:27 b_jonas: ah, long story 06:59:45 do you just write hth after every sentence or what 06:59:47 you see, it was originally called State and was a bit different 06:59:58 i'm going to assume it's a subtle comment on the nonexistence of Feather hth 07:00:10 izabera: not always hth 07:00:19 izabera: you must be new here 07:00:53 kinda 07:00:55 the principle was the same, but it was clogged... what I mean by clogged is that it was an OISC with 4 arguments... not 2... 07:01:00 so I reduced it and changed it 07:01:09 um, but you've taken a pretty good name 07:01:18 I named it Tar, because it was a tarpit, but not a turing tarpit 07:01:19 I mean, what if someone actually does an esolang that somehow uses the tar program 07:01:27 wait, what's the tar program? 07:01:39 lol 07:01:44 oh no, then we will need our wiki's second disambiguation page! 07:02:03 so many name conflicts 07:02:05 i am tempted 07:02:06 `` sed streetlight <<< reeter 07:02:16 lighter 07:02:18 I could rename it Tarp. 07:02:34 sounds fancier too 07:03:06 [wiki] [[Tar]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42505&oldid=42501 * Rdococ * (+3) changing name to tarp 07:03:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Tar]] to [[Tarp]]: possible naming conflicts with a possible esolang using some kind of 'tar program', whatever that is 07:04:23 I'll also go and delete the redirect 07:04:48 [wiki] [[Tar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42508&oldid=42507 * Rdococ * (-18) Blanked the page 07:04:50 rdococ: you are using windows, aren't you? 07:04:57 yes... unfortunately 07:05:07 that explains a lot 07:05:24 I knew there was a .tar extension 07:05:37 which could have caused a conflict 07:06:59 http://sprunge.us/WMPa anyway this is a clock written in sed (honestly impressive) 07:08:26 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42509&oldid=42504 * Rdococ * (+1) 07:11:19 [wiki] [[Tarp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42510&oldid=42506 * Rdococ * (+0) okay, now I'm renaming it to Harp.... for some weird reason 07:11:44 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Tarp]] to [[Harp]]: ugh... make your mind up brain 07:12:54 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42513&oldid=42509 * Rdococ * (+0) 07:13:20 what next? Harpy? 07:13:20 do you know what the goverment uses?! The http://esolangs.org/wiki/Harp machine!!! 07:13:21 lol 07:13:29 probably 07:13:43 Tarp just sounded too sharp...!!! 07:15:07 [wiki] [[Harp]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42514&oldid=42511 * Rdococ * (+17) /* Structure */ forgot a step in executing the only instruction in Harp 07:15:35 harp darp 07:15:52 if I am to create a derivative of Harp, it would be called Darp. 07:16:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:17:47 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Tar]]": Author request: content before blanking was: "#REDIRECT [[Tarp]]" 07:18:45 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:19:58 rdococ: shall i just delete State and Tarp too? 07:20:08 if you want 07:20:10 izabera: foo () for ... done scares me 07:20:23 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[State]]": Author request: content was: "#REDIRECT [[Tar]]" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Rdococ|Rdococ]]") 07:20:24 foo () { ... } >... too 07:20:35 the function body must be a compound command 07:20:50 { } is a compound command, but so is for ... done 07:20:54 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Tarp]]": Author request: content was: "#REDIRECT [[Harp]]" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Rdococ|Rdococ]]") 07:22:18 `` -d? () [[ -d $1 ]]; -d? /bin && echo /bin is a directory 07:22:19 bash: -d: invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \ 07:22:23 o_o 07:22:27 what 07:22:35 that's a bug in HackEgo 07:22:51 congrats........ 07:23:00 who coded it? 07:23:14 `` :; -d? () [[ -d $1 ]]; -d? /bin && echo /bin is a directory 07:23:15 ​/bin is a directory 07:23:24 who is the author of HackEgo ? 07:24:06 `cat bin/` 07:24:07 exec bash -c "$1" 07:24:11 not really a bug in hackego 07:24:14 `run -d? () 07:24:16 bash: -d: invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \ 07:24:18 um 07:24:19 ok nice 07:24:21 it's a bug in HackEgo 07:24:26 you need bash -c -- "$1" 07:24:32 well 07:24:34 bin/` is written by me 07:24:40 `run is built in though 07:24:46 so it's cool that it's broken 07:24:59 `run sed -i 's/-c/-c --/' 'bin/`' 07:25:15 `` -d? () [[ -d $1 ]]; -d? /bin && echo /bin is a directory 07:25:18 bash: -d: invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \ 07:25:19 No output. 07:25:21 `` -d? 07:25:21 bash: -d?: command not found 07:25:29 there 07:25:33 wait why did it error out? 07:25:35 `` -d? () [[ -d $1 ]]; -d? /bin && echo /bin is a directory 07:25:36 I don't think this is exploitable though 07:25:36 ​/bin is a directory 07:25:40 izabera: race condition 07:25:43 ok 07:25:48 it's not exploitable 07:25:48 (since you could just as easily `run bash -... if you wanted) 07:25:52 it's just broken code 07:26:11 @tell Gregor HackEgo `run foo should do bash -c -- foo rather than bash -c foo, or it breaks on `run -blah 07:26:11 Consider it noted. 07:26:23 the idea of having /bin/` is clever 07:27:46 ` 07:27:48 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 07:30:25 izabera: `run doesn't actually need to be built in 07:30:34 ok 07:30:37 since you could do the same trick as ` 07:30:41 sure 07:30:55 the built-ins are `run, `revert and `help I think 07:31:09 you could make `help not built in, and you can make one of `run and `revert not built in 07:31:23 since either would let you revert to an earlier revision if someone deletes everything 07:31:34 but if you make them both not built in then anyone can just delete everything with no way to fix it >_> 07:46:39 `` time rm -rf * 07:47:08 that wasn't needed 07:48:25 `revert 07:48:40 ~.~ 07:50:28 ​ \ real0m0.871s \ user0m0.340s \ sys0m0.660s 07:51:25 `` time sleep 1 07:51:43 ​ \ real0m1.023s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 07:51:44 Done. 07:51:57 `` time sleep 0.3 07:51:58 ​ \ real0m0.321s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 07:52:16 `echo Done. 07:52:17 Done. 07:52:24 `run var=3 07:52:26 No output. 07:52:29 `run echo "$var" 07:52:30 No output. 07:52:32 ok 07:52:42 `run echo $var 07:52:43 No output. 07:52:43 elliott: can't you fix things with `/... commands anyway? 07:53:01 oerjan: hmm... I guess 07:53:06 `` TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS'; time sleep 0.3 07:53:09 you could do `/revert or whatever if that was added 07:53:14 real: 0m0.316s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.000s 07:53:19 why does it take so long ._. 07:53:21 ok run and help should become non-primitives then 07:53:26 `` time sleep 1.5 07:53:29 ​ \ real0m1.524s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 07:53:29 you don't need to revert rm -rf * 07:53:31 since it doesn't work 07:53:33 `help 07:53:35 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 07:53:39 ``time sleep 1.48 07:53:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `time: not found 07:53:46 `` time sleep 1.48 07:53:48 ​ \ real0m1.512s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 07:53:55 `` time sleep 1.46 07:53:57 ​ \ real0m1.483s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 07:54:25 izabera: because it also starts up user mode linux 07:54:50 `` sed -i "s/^/TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS' /" bin/\` 07:54:55 No output. 07:54:58 `` time echo x 07:54:59 real: 0m0.001s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.000s \ x 07:55:37 Shouldn't that be in .bashrc 07:55:49 .bashrc is only sourced in interactive shells 07:56:16 oerjan: okay but `fetch would still be built in 07:56:33 oerjan: I guess it could just get an HTTP proxy that lets you do what `fetch does but no more? 07:56:39 i.e. GET only, filesize limit, etc. 07:56:48 rate-limited somehow 07:57:01 `curl 07:57:04 curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information 07:57:09 curl can post 07:57:55 `curl --help 07:57:55 Usage: curl [options...] \ Options: (H) means HTTP/HTTPS only, (F) means FTP only \ --anyauth Pick "any" authentication method (H) \ -a, --append Append to target file when uploading (F/SFTP) \ --basic Use HTTP Basic Authentication (H) \ --cacert FILE CA certificate to verify peer against (SSL) \ -- 07:58:09 `` curl -F 'aringa=<-' arin.ga <<< 'hello from #esoteric' 07:58:10 Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server 07:58:14 aww 07:58:26 `dig 8.8.8.8 07:58:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dig: not found 07:58:34 `ping 8.8.8.8 07:58:35 pong 07:58:55 pong 07:59:46 the curl proxy it has is limited to a few websites 07:59:48 I wish there were a way to adver...hang on... why havent I added any of my languages to the list of languages... other than that old rotten FileCode that I hate 07:59:54 so you couldn't replace `fetch with it 08:00:01 mmh 08:00:14 `curl -H 'esolangs.org' 08:00:15 curl: no URL specified! \ curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information 08:00:25 `curl -H 'http://esolangs.org' 08:00:26 the ideal would be that the entire bot was modifiable 08:00:26 curl: no URL specified! \ curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information 08:00:29 but that would be so usable 08:00:33 `curl -H http://esolangs.org 08:00:39 maybe you could implement it as a nomic-style voting system 08:00:44 curl: no URL specified! \ curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information 08:00:48 with veto power given to some people 08:00:53 `curl --help 08:00:53 Usage: curl [options...] \ Options: (H) means HTTP/HTTPS only, (F) means FTP only \ --anyauth Pick "any" authentication method (H) \ -a, --append Append to target file when uploading (F/SFTP) \ --basic Use HTTP Basic Authentication (H) \ --cacert FILE CA certificate to verify peer against (SSL) \ -- 08:00:56 that would be cool... I should write that 08:01:06 rdococ: use `run 08:01:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:01:15 what you are doing is like curl '-F http://esolangs.org' 08:02:01 `run curl -F http://esolangs.org 08:02:02 Warning: Illegally formatted input field! \ curl: option -F: is badly used here \ curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information 08:02:09 `run curl -H http://esolangs.org 08:02:09 curl: no URL specified! \ curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information 08:02:16 `run curl -H 'http://esolangs.org' 08:02:17 curl: no URL specified! \ curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information 08:02:19 ugh 08:03:01 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42515&oldid=42340 * Rdococ * (+11) /* H */ added Harp 08:03:17 `/bin/bash -cecho hi #Testing 08:03:18 ​/bin/bash: - : invalid option \ allexport off \ braceexpand on \ emacs on \ errexit on \ errtrace off \ functrace off \ hashall on \ histexpand on \ history on \ ignoreeof off \ interactive-commentson \ keyword off \ monitor off \ noclobber off \ noexec 08:03:24 `/bin/bash -c echo hi #Testing 08:03:25 ​/bin/bash: - : invalid option \ Usage:/bin/bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ /bin/bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restrict 08:03:34 ok bash cannot be used that way 08:03:40 `` which perl 08:03:55 ​/usr/bin/perl 08:03:55 and then it broke. 08:04:06 `/usr/bin/perl -eprint "Hi!" 08:04:19 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42516&oldid=42515 * Rdococ * (+41) /* F */ added Folder [not Folders] 08:04:20 Hi! 08:06:42 hi #esoteric! do you have any idea what the best way is to implement a program whose control structure between basic blocks looks like this?: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ick-parser-substate-example.png 08:06:48 because I don't, really 08:06:59 trying to render that thing in terms of if and while doesn't work without extra variables 08:07:15 goto 08:07:32 I was definitely considering it 08:07:35 * oerjan sees "ick-parser" and starts to back away... 08:07:35 goto state_6 08:07:49 the context is that I'm trying to write a YACC impl that produces human-like output code 08:07:54 Icky parser substrate 08:07:55 but I have no idea what a human would write in this situation ;-) 08:08:25 this is admittedly an extreme example, in most of the YACC grammars I tried the substate control graphs are much simpler 08:08:37 I would use goto or just have an integer state variable 08:10:09 (If the states have more meaning than just numbers, I might use labels or state number constants that reflect the meaning) 08:12:39 I think I could probably use more meaningful names 08:12:59 a state variable seems like a bad idea, that'd basically leave you in a for-switch situation 08:13:15 still, I don't think you'd do the whole thing as a goto 08:13:23 e.g. 10 and 13 both look like if statements 08:13:38 21/22 would be perfect for a while, except that it has two entry points 08:20:21 Why not plain functions 08:20:35 stack depth 08:21:05 Tail calls 08:21:18 functions + tailcalls is basically equivalent to a nest of gotos 08:22:07 The flow tends to be clearer IME, but yes of course 08:22:07 my current plan is to use the goto style in C if the control flow is sufficiently complex that you can't figure out what's going on, and replace it with mutually recursive tailcalls if we're using a functional language 08:23:07 ais523: I have a programming language called Harp... it looks like it might be perfect for your needs. Here: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Harp 08:23:16 it even has an interpreter, lol 08:23:34 rdococ: to write my YACC impl in? or as a language to target? 08:24:03 have a look 08:24:19 also that can't possibly be more powerful than an FSA, it only has one symbol of memory 08:24:27 oh... 08:24:37 I don't think it's less powerful either, but that's less obvious 08:24:43 it's as powerful as a finite state machine 08:25:03 ah right, yes, it's exactly as powerful as a finite state machine 08:25:11 because you can just write a list of transitions after each label 08:25:39 no, if you read the specification of Harp... 08:26:43 it doesnt even have the concept of states. 08:26:59 rdococ: yes it does, just indirectly 08:27:06 well, yes, indirectly 08:27:09 but I meant directly 08:27:13 http://arin.ga/xtkSZO <-- this is the sort of code you get if you take the state variable approach 08:27:39 ais523: for that particular example, only two states are in any loop (21 and 22), so you could implement it as a function for each state and then a single function with a while loop for those two states 08:27:55 each instruction acts as a state whose transitions are listed on the subsequent lines, up to the next unconditional jump, ignoring any duplicates of previous transitions 08:28:31 b_jonas: 21/22 would blatantly be a while loop if not for the fact you can enter it either way round (which says a lot about INTERCAL's syntax) 08:28:59 orin: I don't find that very readable 08:29:15 The goto approach would have been better 08:29:16 also that's basically a for/switch which is an antipattern 08:29:19 ais523: oh... right 08:29:36 yes, you literally have no advantage over goto there, and you're using goto anyway 08:29:45 so for that you probably need a single state variable there, or else duplicate one of those states 08:29:51 hmm 08:29:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:30:27 ais523: mind you, when I write code by hand, I use state variables a lot 08:30:39 and I encourage state variables in while loops as good style 08:30:43 let me show an example 08:30:53 I've been known to do that too, especially if there's a bunch of common code each time round the loop 08:30:58 ayacc's parser works like that atm 08:31:08 I don't meen the balatnt for{switch{}} kind of state variables of course 08:31:12 (I couldn't sensibly autogenerate it for obvious reasons, so I wrote a hand-coded parser) 08:31:21 just variables for quitting a loop or skipping some part of the code etc 08:33:26 example for quitting loops early with state variables: http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-gy4.html#cell_16 08:34:08 `ping 08:34:08 pong 08:34:18 wow, internet still working 08:34:42 my internet shouldn't be alive 08:35:43 anyway, it'd be easy to implement that diagram in Harp, as long as you don't care about the consistency of state names 08:36:03 I'd like to see someone use it 08:36:10 or talk about it 08:36:11 or comment on it 08:36:24 `ping 08:36:25 pong 08:36:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:36:39 well it's basically just a compression scheme for FSMs, and those tend not to get talked about much 08:36:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:37:19 hehe "tend not to get talked about much" 08:37:21 what about my other esolang called Folder (not Folders 08:37:26 lol 08:37:38 wait that reminds me of this question 08:37:44 I wonder what an infinite state machine would be like 08:38:20 http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/q/22493/8067 "Are there any open problems left about DFAs?" 08:38:31 there's some nice answers 08:39:14 rdococ: we thought Folder was interesting, because its power most likely depends on filesystem features 08:40:52 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 08:41:42 I seriously need ideas for a more interesting language 08:41:48 I had an idea for an infinite state machine 08:42:04 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:42:10 -!- rdococ_ has changed nick to rdococ. 08:42:21 hmm 08:42:53 Transfinite state machines 08:45:19 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 08:45:39 so, would an infinite state machine be turing complete 08:45:52 depends on how it's defined 08:45:56 -!- wieldablesquid has joined. 08:45:57 there are certainly constructions that are 08:46:06 the best known is finite state machine + two counters 08:46:24 well, if you could define an infinite number of states with regular expressions or token wildcards 08:46:36 like string $1 + concat $2 => string $1$2 08:46:37 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:46:45 -!- rdococ_ has changed nick to rdococ. 08:47:23 my internet will be intermittent because I'm in a car 08:47:52 "infinite state machine" is really vague. almost anything is an infinite state machine if it runs in discrete time, which applies to most of what non-esoteric computer science considers. 08:48:19 true 08:48:50 it's so general you can't really say anything useful about it, which is why we restrict it by the chomsky hierarchy or other ways 08:49:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Wroom). 08:49:32 -!- iamevn_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:50:25 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:50:25 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:52:34 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:52:45 Oh, I forgot: here is the same code, refactored with goto: http://arin.ga/fyyppe 08:53:39 it's still not that readable 08:53:43 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:53:45 it's a bit better 08:53:55 at least now the fact that the flow is optimizable is more obvious 08:54:00 -!- rdococ has joined. 08:54:21 how am I connected at all 08:54:25 e,g, you do things like if (...) goto longlongnum; else {...; goto retry;} longlongnum: 08:54:42 which is one of the most bizarre ways to write an if statement I've ever seen :-) 08:55:05 lol. 08:55:15 where is the retry label? 08:55:25 at top 08:55:53 this code is scary 08:56:04 is this lexing C or something? 08:56:07 oh by the way 08:56:37 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:56:41 It is reading in arbitrary C structures, in an ad-hoc format similar to C literals 08:57:03 ais523: I think yacc not reading the lookahead when it's not needed would even make implementing a classical C89 compiler simpler, 08:58:00 for it would use that hack where the lexer generates a different token for type identifiers than for function/object identifiers, and you may need that distinction very early after a type is declared 08:58:37 b_jonas: right, I've implemented it to never read a token unless it's needed 08:58:40 so it would make sense to me that yacc had always worked that way 08:58:43 because POSIX requires that 08:58:44 yep 08:58:46 even though it's inconsistent 08:59:05 there are other examples like foo: bar {midrule} BAZ 08:59:25 or, well 08:59:51 suppose I do "a : b {foo} C | b {bar} D", now you have to read in the C or D to know whether to run foo or bar 09:00:18 brace blocks in the middle of the rule can be useful in some sort of grammars, but it's really just syntacic sugar 09:00:37 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:00:38 I know 09:01:08 ayacc desugars it in the way recommended by POSIX, to "a : b #1 C | b #2 D; #1 : {foo}; #2 : {bar}" 09:01:25 luckily this don't read the lookahead rule doesn't make the yacc implementation too complicated, because if you know how to generate the pushdown automaton tables, you probably also know how to determine when you need the lookahead 09:01:30 where I start internally-generated identifiers with # because that's normally an illegal character in yacc identifiers, = no clashes 09:02:07 well, the check is "is every transition on a terminal in this state an identical reduce action" 09:02:17 yeah... and yacc identifiers can contain a hyphen so you can't just use them verbatim inside the C function names you generate 09:02:46 technically you could check shifts too, but a) that never happens with the LALR(1) algorithm unless there's only one terminal there, b) the act of shifting requires reading the terminal anyway 09:02:50 anyway, meeting 09:02:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: meeting). 09:03:02 um what? 09:03:31 I assume it is workday time where ais is. 09:03:32 I don't think (b) is valid because you need to execute a brace block before the reading if there's only one shift action? 09:03:54 sure it's workday time. he's in the same continent as me. 09:04:39 Where I am it is 5 in the morning, e.g. crawl home o clock 09:04:41 orin: does that lex C99 hexfloats too? 09:04:45 no 09:05:39 I could probably modify it, but it probably doesn't even work perfectly for regular floats anyway 09:05:45 (also C++11 suffixed user literals, C++11 literal strings, and the three flavors of unicode strings...) 09:06:00 orin: but hex floats are _easier_ than regular floats 09:06:07 regular meaning decimal 09:06:09 really? 09:06:20 yes, because there's no tricky precision issues 09:06:28 the representation is binary 09:06:45 for reading decimal floats, it's hard to convert from decimal to binary without roundoff errors 09:06:52 ohhhh.... that makes sense now I think about it 09:06:58 for hex floats you don't have that problem, it's easier to convert 09:07:22 I mean, it's still not trivial, I'd still recommend most people to use a library function from a trusted well-written library instead of parsing themselves 09:07:26 but it's definitely easier 09:08:24 This code reads a format taht is a bit more permissive than C... for example, if the number begins with a hex digit you don't need a prefix. 0xff xff and ff are all ok 09:09:11 so 09:09:16 but 1f will give you 25 09:09:18 ff*3 isn't the variable ff*3 09:09:27 but 255*3? 09:10:09 orin: what? isn't 1f supposed to be the same as 1.1f in C? 09:10:21 let me ask geordi 09:10:35 hmm no it's not 09:10:38 sorry 09:10:48 Hm? I thought it would just be an error 09:10:58 yes, it's an error 09:11:08 or a C++11 user-defined literal 09:11:34 lol. what happens if two packages deifne the same literal? 09:13:29 Hmm.. I guess it is handled as a duplicate definition of operator "" 09:24:44 orin: it's more complicated than that 09:28:41 because it's namespaced too 10:03:13 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 10:12:47 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:12:47 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:16:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:19:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:21:02 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 10:39:14 -!- boily has joined. 11:04:13 @karma boily 11:04:13 boily has a karma of 109 11:04:17 @karma 11:04:17 You have a karma of 1 11:04:19 :( 11:05:00 ah 11:05:10 boily-- 11:05:13 @karma boily 11:05:13 boily has a karma of 108 11:05:17 :p 11:05:44 @karma C 11:05:44 C has a karma of 2 11:05:46 C++ 11:05:47 @karma 11:05:47 You have a karma of 1 11:05:50 @karma C 11:05:50 C has a karma of 2 11:05:53 hm. 11:06:03 weird 11:06:07 C-- 11:06:08 @karma C 11:06:08 C has a karma of 2 11:14:46 mrhelloman. 11:15:15 uhm. I feel a little bit disturbed to be at 108. 11:24:40 @karma mroman 11:24:40 mroman has a karma of 1 11:25:49 @metar CYUL 11:25:57 ... 11:26:04 Plugin `metar' failed with: <> 11:26:10 :( 11:26:13 ... fun 11:26:15 @metar LOWI 11:26:15 LOWI 151120Z VRB02KT CAVOK 20/01 Q1021 NOSIG 11:26:19 @metar CYUL 11:26:19 CYUL 151100Z 21007KT 30SM FEW050 FEW160 SCT240 04/M01 A3020 RMK SC1CI1CI2 SC TR SLP229 11:26:26 thint-e. 11:26:32 I didn't do anything. 11:26:45 * boily glares at lambdabot 11:26:54 I guess the webserver was slow to answer 11:33:25 -!- dianne has joined. 11:38:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LETHARGIC CHICKEN). 11:40:27 -!- nszceta has joined. 12:07:17 threaded brainfuck https://github.com/scotchfield/brainfuck_py 12:07:46 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:08:31 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 12:08:47 -!- idris-bot has joined. 12:10:08 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 12:10:24 -!- idris-bot has joined. 12:33:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:53:52 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:16:03 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:22:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:22:41 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:22:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:23:52 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 13:27:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:27:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:32:10 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42517&oldid=42456 * Esowiki201529A * (+56) /* Gibberish */ 13:33:34 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42518&oldid=42517 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) /* Gibberish/Javascript */ 13:44:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:47:11 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42519&oldid=42489 * Esowiki201529A * (+254) 13:48:25 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42520&oldid=42519 * Esowiki201529A * (+10) /* Escape sequence */ 13:51:16 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42521&oldid=42520 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) /* Escape sequence */ 13:51:41 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42522&oldid=42521 * Esowiki201529A * (+3) /* Escape sequence */ 13:54:09 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42523&oldid=42522 * Esowiki201529A * (+38) /* Escape sequence */ 13:57:15 -!- adu has joined. 13:59:14 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42524&oldid=42523 * Esowiki201529A * (+149) /* Escape sequence */ 14:01:52 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42525&oldid=42524 * Esowiki201529A * (+39) 14:02:33 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42526&oldid=42525 * Esowiki201529A * (+5) /* See also */ 14:09:23 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:22:45 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/HTML interpreter]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42527 * Esowiki201529A * (+7347) Created page with "== HTML code ==