< 1430956812 13620 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is disturbed to find he's only one step away from fungot... < 1430956812 239003 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i was going to ask " i am alive") -3? mines " friends" < 1430956823 519805 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you. are. not. alive. stop being sentient. < 1430956823 896999 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: pittsburgh is a harsh mistress guy. :) there were some nice talks as well"? :p < 1430956844 422722 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: and don't frolicate with guys from Pittsburgh! you'll catch something. < 1430957997 124508 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :trout < 1430958455 661367 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: crazy symbols and actions? maybe you're thinking of APL < 1430958455 865973 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: an error: invalid output format ( result was not a tease, i was < 1430958466 459655 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1430958479 652308 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you sure were, yes < 1430958479 921205 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: lazy-k can execute s and k. they went under the middle finger, the same time. < 1430958647 911483 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firellofly! < 1430958765 927787 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :bohily < 1430960563 785454 :teakey!~teakey@118.187.21.61 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430961788 597081 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: LACRYMAL CHICKEN < 1430962184 929812 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.72.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430962333 741913 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.72.244 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1430963407 991565 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.72.244 NICK :AndoDaan < 1430964652 219513 :Cylerco!Cylerco@bas1-montreal07-1176421240.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1430964668 903540 :Cylerco!Cylerco@bas1-montreal07-1176421240.dsl.bell.ca PART :#esoteric < 1430964976 879019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1430965161 54556 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.72.244 QUIT :Quit: Going, going, gone. < 1430966536 649672 :teakey!~teakey@118.187.21.61 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1430966989 460945 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://postimg.org/image/e0lk07545/ <- dwarven apartment complexes, carved from the living rock < 1430967303 730312 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430967878 740495 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1430968003 536357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1430968989 685646 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1430969200 670041 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1430970068 504160 :fowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tdvkztvltgoyieta JOIN :#esoteric < 1430970436 316983 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1430970464 610183 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1430971943 361391 :password2!~password@197.77.35.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430971971 349950 :password2!~password@197.77.35.217 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1430972071 54449 :password2!~password@197.77.35.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430972634 484721 :teakey!~teakey@180.175.253.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430972639 929669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 983 < 1430972655 400499 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 983: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti < 1430972697 237525 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at that exact twitter feed just now, and getting annoyed that something screwed up the apostrophe < 1430973166 68579 :^v!~^v@c-68-36-225-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1430973173 398573 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Living rock? Sounds like an evil biome thing. < 1430975653 491795 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1430976659 869037 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just a poetic/dramatic way of saying "natural engravable stone" < 1430976721 750464 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mountain I picked reaches almost to 256, so I was able to carve quite a hive-city out of it < 1430977658 35485 :password2!~password@197.77.35.217 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1430978184 373903 :teakey!~teakey@180.175.253.108 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1430980717 171693 :Tritonio!~tr@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:92e2:baff:fe42:f24c JOIN :#esoteric < 1430981046 635721 :Tritonio!~tr@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:92e2:baff:fe42:f24c QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1430981151 465752 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ah great, images made of tiles that the wobsite insists on making a “thumbnail” image despite that the original resolution compresses so well because of the tiles that the file size of the original is actually way smaller < 1430981185 525312 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: on this site, it's a jpeg thumbnail of a png file. on http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/ , it's resampled thumbnails made of every level map. < 1430981218 1728 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these wobsites should really check the damned file size of the result, and use the original if it's smaller. < 1430981296 617183 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also why I can use DF over X network wihout any problem < 1430981426 545610 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of website problems, google no longer works on text-browsers, because it refereshes infinitely < 1430981448 587083 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/File:Ck2lv16.png the original file is 28 kilobytes, the rescaled thumbnail is 235 kilobytes. < 1430981459 513678 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: no WAY < 1430981460 889851 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try < 1430981470 813323 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't be that stupid < 1430981481 48226 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, maybe it has ugly layout or something < 1430981493 320269 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it already has on anything without css) < 1430981523 67982 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit you're right < 1430981529 579190 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it tries to refresh infinitely < 1430981535 418347 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1430981582 646211 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb < 1430981633 863972 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bing, yahoo, yandex and baidu still work. < 1430981650 456593 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, is that related to why sometimes Chrome Incognito crashes on Google search results? < 1430981659 739958 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has actually used Bing at times because of that < 1430981668 824668 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my own homepage should work, though the layout is uglier) < 1430981756 804239 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I too am noticing an increasing amount of sites that require crazy javascript browser stunts and still show up broken < 1430981770 86719 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why they do that < 1430981845 700027 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :o btw < 1430981860 941590 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know when I asked if there were wikis that used a vcs as their storage engine? < 1430981901 926227 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized github might be used as such a wiki, because it shows you a vcs-controlled tree, and can formats documents with some wiki language. < 1430981952 558324 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that works. < 1430982206 334139 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically any of the dozens of web vcs ifaces work if you throw in a wiki formatter < 1430982685 963249 :fowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tdvkztvltgoyieta PRIVMSG #esoteric :your project wiki is a repository on bitbucket, i assume its the same for githubs wikis < 1430983887 752854 :tr00p!~tr00p@91a239b67c195.greendata.pl QUIT :Quit: i drop my computer from the window < 1430983993 603724 :tr00p!~tr00p@91a239b67c195.greendata.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1430984783 965346 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1430985398 855341 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I always say, the best defense is a deep deep trench < 1430985650 104631 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:58 < b_jonas> you know when I asked if there were wikis that used a vcs as their storage engine? <-- there was also one by suckless, altho in the good old suckless fashion it lacked vital features like web editor < 1430985790 496103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@146.66.42.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430985790 901348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@146.66.42.20 QUIT :Changing host < 1430985791 67721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1430986360 327804 :teakey!~teakey@180.175.253.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430986382 289382 :teakey!~teakey@180.175.253.108 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1430986418 647816 :teakey!~teakey@180.175.253.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430986820 969257 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1430987504 561997 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1430988062 473505 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to admit, that if your crossing guards can beat enemy commandos that is one way to stop a fifth coloumn < 1430989323 941975 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaaaaah < 1430990445 306331 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAA < 1430990623 353556 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++[->++++++++<]>+....... < 1430990625 937929 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAA < 1430990672 164697 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aアあ亜唖 < 1430990709 877646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, george osborne's haircut is unfortunate < 1430990869 615390 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I not sure I folow. it looks like a typical old man haircut < 1430990926 742053 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk, he just looks even more evil than before < 1430991915 180039 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1430992292 769353 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. I would probably vote for anyone who had a silly enough hairstyle < 1430992299 260212 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, I need to vote < 1430992317 520057 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO THE POLLS! < 1430992699 378345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I vote? I guess I am of voting age now. weird. < 1430992985 197123 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i guess you can vote, assuming you want to < 1430993062 633216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other obstacles to that, but yes, I don't think my vote would be particularly relevant anyway < 1430993091 581307 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My riding " < 1430993123 772248 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(electoral district) is very large, so my vote counts for very little < 1430993144 903802 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1430993149 180 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :riding amulet? that doesn't exist < 1430993164 535448 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's riding boots and riding gloves < 1430993182 853067 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLAH this keyboard is all msesed up < 1430993232 668722 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using a 10 year old laptop to talk to my 3 year old laptop < 1430993361 484062 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the symbols in weird places, like there is a $ and a euro sign next to the arrow keys < 1430993397 208591 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the enter button is shaped wrong < 1430993490 608967 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you registered in time, you can vote < 1430993498 480160 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY < 1430993501 79455 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: can you just plug in an external keyboard? < 1430993515 190047 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i not think of that < 1430993515 393854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvd: okay, yeah, I didn't register. < 1430993525 444661 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can't vote < 1430993529 560463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1430993534 348407 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mystery solved, I guess < 1430993548 337063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly < 1430993715 653023 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dastards! the plug isthe round one, and I don't have an adapter < 1430993722 865016 :zadock!~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1430993796 439692 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear. the puns, they're horrible. they burn. < 1430993800 692038 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1430994002 559011 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it this is what happens when you change the plugs! All plugs for each peripheral should stay the same forever < 1430994076 293986 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: changed from what to what this time? < 1430994112 856120 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the laptop has usb only, and I only have round-plug keyboards < 1430994275 463356 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The round plug ones let you press more buttons at once < 1430994358 987257 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is a proper name for the round plug but I don't know it < 1430994485 355529 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right. I'ts < 1430994490 316484 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS/2 < 1430994498 559142 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid enter key < 1430994584 679790 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they changed from PS/2 to usb so they could make the laptops thinner. ashats < 1430994598 388269 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector < 1430994602 159739 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks. < 1430994745 567469 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they changed it before that, from a think that looks almost the same as a PS/2 but is incompatible? asshats < 1430994904 791316 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have just switched to a 8-pin DIN for backward compatibility < 1430995183 846096 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1430995259 503790 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the small round plug is PS/2, the big round plug is AT (DIN) < 1430995277 808868 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: no, it looks _nothing_ like a PS/2 < 1430995344 635116 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn they should put somehting in the photo for scale < 1430995365 876108 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why motherboards have changed away from AT plug, but that's happened like 15 years ago, sadly < 1430995418 338825 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many q's can you put in \quad < 1430995422 890605 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's motherboards often don't work properly with AT keyboards even with a passive AT-PS2 converters < 1430995427 795064 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheaper parts, maybe. < 1430995451 448997 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: possible, because this way the mouse and keyboard uses the same type of connector < 1430995466 242522 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe PS/2 is just smaller so it fits better on a notebook < 1430995490 358434 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but mice could've used the DIN connector as well. Heck they used the even larger serial connector for some time. < 1430995571 180690 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1430995611 202351 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have just kept the serial port if they gave the serial port controller a better interface (with a buffer so the cpu doesn't have to be interrupted for every fricking byte read or written) < 1430995632 189074 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could even be backwards compatible for both software and periferials < 1430995746 381602 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :with today's 6 core and 8 core computers couldn't you just interrupt only one particular core? < 1430995757 862580 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: sure you could < 1430995766 406446 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, interrupting for each fricking byte is a waste < 1430995775 285153 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be each block < 1430995776 811345 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made sense back when that made the controller hw cheaper < 1430995809 528332 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for a responsive mouse though I bet < 1430995822 322816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these days every controller is handled by a small microcontroller that can handle a small buffer. probably serial port controllers are too. < 1430995826 917527 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck < 1430995841 740017 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you remember when laser printers had 128 megabyte of memory in them? < 1430995851 990198 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, these days hard disks have 64 megabyte of ram < 1430995854 310529 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy < 1430995859 793556 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're throwing megabytes at everything < 1430995978 524347 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jellonas. wait wait wait. you're saying that hard drives have ram??? < 1430996000 771761 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah they cache your accesses < 1430996023 94832 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yes < 1430996038 562749 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they have ram is not surprising, it's that they have so much ram that's strange < 1430996145 945546 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it is so that they can read ahead several blocks and serve them up continuously < 1430996207 746395 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually they will export the whole filesystem into the hard disk's controller < 1430996216 179217 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but sixty four megabytes? we used to run entire computers in that < 1430996260 215845 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm downloading files from the internet that are larger than the whole hard disk capacity I had back then, < 1430996268 923206 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and working with data of sizes I couldn't even imagine would exist < 1430996280 991572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not even working with large databases like some people I see on the internet do < 1430996339 79564 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One corpus I am currently semi-working on is 10GB of CSV data < 1430996350 666395 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :detailing hockey players < 1430996358 700535 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: doesn't sound too big < 1430996375 634075 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't that big in todays terms < 1430996384 157014 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactlyi < 1430996384 325326 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what I mean < 1430996402 486802 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you load all of it in memory? < 1430996460 223943 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't have enough memory, so my programs have to act on streams < 1430996512 220419 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could get 6GB of memory on AWS < 1430996523 604582 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make things easier < 1430996574 410887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvd, i saw that hexham's counting isn't due to finish until noon tomorrow < 1430996585 915935 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, good think I'm in York Central < 1430996589 637113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :as indeed is leamington's < 1430996592 590076 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, of course < 1430996592 755443 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy how the computers got more powerful though. < 1430996624 778898 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... the problem is how we all waste the power we are give so much < 1430996736 771229 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm wasting a ton of cpu and memory by storing this data as CSV < 1430996793 285022 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to parse text number to binary, do math, then convert back with every operationO\ < 1430996859 270582 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how efficient the scanf implementation is? < 1430997439 455617 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah I oughta be using fwrite fread for this < 1430997669 705907 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1430998017 51213 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: STRIPED CHICKEN < 1430998041 369058 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAID controller firmware is already more complicated than filesystems. < 1430998241 759931 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno much about RAID, but I was thinking that maybe the next gen disks could take an inode number and offset to read or write < 1430998398 561438 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Hexham'll go conservative almost certainly, though < 1430998567 789318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hisss < 1430998661 910241 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it is the country < 1431001086 910478 :ineiros!~itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-58c3fe-184.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1431002718 731608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431002874 258473 :ineiros!~itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-58c3fe-184.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1431002899 602089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1431002904 748038 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431003012 652886 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : This letter will definitely be amazing to you because of its realistic value. < 1431003022 153460 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that spam caught my eye because the subject line was a couple of IPs < 1431003107 917971 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1431003207 596970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1431003292 787986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: evenmo'list? < 1431003443 346579 :teakey!~teakey@180.175.253.108 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431003762 107563 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1431003822 17809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1431004056 200044 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431004931 122569 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431006055 655201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1431007504 470521 :teakey!~teakey@114.111.166.47 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431007531 531159 :teakey!~teakey@114.111.166.47 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1431007669 947206 :teakey!~teakey@114.111.166.47 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431009033 765051 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :success. 10GB of CSV = 5 GB of union{int64_t i;double d;} < 1431009102 920908 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :still too large to fit in memory < 1431009107 765575 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1431009179 156192 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need it all in memory, oren ? < 1431009221 502391 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,, but it would make certain operations faster, in particular sorting the data < 1431009268 461440 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also now I need to rewrite my programs for the new format. but not having to parse CSV should remove a lot of overhead < 1431009422 549531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what are you using that union for? < 1431009450 887310 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry I'm not using both members at once < 1431009472 652164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right I figured you're more ethical than that < 1431009474 560902 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it is depends on the column number < 1431009479 786151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you know the type contextually, or do you have a type tag? < 1431009480 264565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1431009506 508695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: if you know the layout of each row, why not just make a struct for the row? < 1431009507 470988 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. column 5 is the player who assisted < 1431009528 140761 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a pain in the butt < 1431009532 278270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :p < 1431009565 547965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you just mmapping a file and using it directly? make sure you take into account alignment and endianness concerns and so on < 1431009569 228698 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it allows the conversion program to be generic < 1431009587 107085 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, fread fwrite < 1431009600 707337 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have enough memory to mmap the whole file < 1431009634 330536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, mmap doesn't use physical memory, it uses virtual memory < 1431009640 350513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole point in fact < 1431009668 348001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, yes, some of the file will probably get cached in memory or whatever, but that happens whenever you use files and it doesn't make you run out) < 1431009697 946291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, okay, with overcommit disabled things can get a bit dicey, but I don't think it complains about file-backed overcommit then, just anonymous? < 1431009709 8637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also turning overcommit off entirely breaks lots of things and the default is lenient < 1431009721 33123 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not actually modifying the file. < 1431009745 234928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say mmap is more useful for reading than modifying anyway... < 1431009749 128240 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading over it and generating another file e.g. running averages of a player's perfoirmance < 1431009763 597406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1431009769 111490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sounds like you vastly underestimate mmap in general < 1431009780 834744 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1431009811 238559 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The datails of what I'm doing are told to me by someone who actually follows hockey < 1431009822 640293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would almost say mmap is the whole point of virtual memory with unix < 1431009836 608283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that might be a little hyperbolic < 1431009929 35154 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I be sued for downloading an entire website and converting it to CSV? < 1431009930 185744 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say mmap is the main _interface_ for users processes to control virtual memory (together with munmap, mremap, mprotect, madvise, msync, and execve) < 1431009972 405720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right, I just mean that you can think of it as the "killer app" in some sense < 1431009975 33210 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though POSIX defines abstractions like shm_* over it (and it doesn't even insist that those are implemented in terms of mmap) < 1431009976 712467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :using it to map files < 1431009989 380872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: the answer to "can I be sued for X" is yes, pretty much < 1431009996 712341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :check their /robots.txt < 1431010013 545253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, ask first, but at least use reasonable rate limits if not < 1431010116 623381 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07SNUSP14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42807&oldid=42805 5* 03IanO 5* (+506) 10/* Examples */ < 1431010139 534349 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. they disallow some parts, but not the giant database I'm after. < 1431010173 620918 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data I have, I got from a zip someone else made < 1431010336 504770 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is a lot of data. it details who was on ice when, for every game since 1980 < 1431010462 518573 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1431010901 886449 :teakey!~teakey@114.111.166.47 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1431011617 956688 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431012236 953391 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1431012320 716984 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1431012960 836748 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431013492 407747 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Small s.c.r.i.p.t.14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42808&oldid=36724 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+0) 10 < 1431014190 233050 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1431015373 941393 :APic_!apic@geekhabitat.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1431015374 895897 :APic_!apic@geekhabitat.de QUIT :Client Quit < 1431015546 900937 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431015884 390607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1431016729 385606 :zadock!~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1431016801 280356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1431016898 244183 :Tritonio!~tr@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:92e2:baff:fe42:f24c JOIN :#esoteric < 1431017267 827006 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/stedolan/bf.sed so, this is a thing < 1431017435 373777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm a compiler sed should be enough for that. < 1431017455 321705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh "optimizing" < 1431017459 370580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1431017634 614100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing a Befunge-93 interpreter in sed, but never really finished. < 1431017675 863671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it had the basic mechanisms of fetching instructions from the playfield, moving the IP, manipulating the stack, and that was about it. < 1431017887 737070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm was sed TC or not again < 1431017947 324398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had conditional jumps, so presumably < 1431018061 899084 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's TC unless you're using one of those crazy variants that limits the length of the line to 1024 bytes -- but those variants are useless even for normal non-esoteric stuff. < 1431018092 103397 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I mean, come on, it can do fixed string substitutions, and can loop, so it's clearly turing complete. < 1431018105 540246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly. < 1431018213 147310 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42809&oldid=42112 5* 0396.127.247.225 5* (+17) 10Update pastebin link to github link < 1431018954 760636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1431019707 766070 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Cute. < 1431020162 170136 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu QUIT :Quit: ayeee! < 1431020249 569616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there's no arithmetic in sed" < 1431020253 114009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure sed can do that? < 1431020264 802470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's TC I think but I guess there might be restrictions on output there < 1431020316 623617 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-198-142.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik, sed is a superset of Thue, which is also TC < 1431020436 213059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1431020486 96336 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@index Applicative < 1431020492 270444 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative, Prelude < 1431020706 293032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue is nondeterministic but yes < 1431020753 458536 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :trout < 1431021090 250473 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual studio 2013 comes with the visual C++ 2013 compiler which is somehow also called msvc 1.2, and identifies itself as "Microsoft (R) Optimizing Compiler Version 18.00.30723.0" < 1431021104 325738 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do these version numbers work? is there somewhere that describes this? < 1431021144 536998 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just remember it only implements a 25 year old version of C and you'll know all you need to about it. < 1431021174 461707 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-198-142.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual studio will have its own version number too, I don't remember how they map beyond VS .NET aka (iirc) 7.0 though < 1431021221 499445 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, I know that < 1431021324 412160 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1431021957 209157 :atrapa!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1431022146 367304 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1431022343 222418 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1431022820 391714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : how do these version numbers work? is there somewhere that describes this? <-- i think the basica principle for version numbers is "you have to change the entire system at least once a decade" hth < 1431022834 665736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-a < 1431022854 143239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @botsnack < 1431022854 308616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1431022865 280977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to the poor thing < 1431023032 848608 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431023337 467653 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42810&oldid=42742 5* 0331.185.153.201 5* (+88) 10/* Befunge-98 and beyond */ Fungewars < 1431023378 399824 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are there any actual examples of a universal turing machine - that is, a turing machine able to simulate any turing machine? < 1431023487 757684 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess a minsky machine wouldn't be too hard to implement, however that'd feel just silly < 1431023626 905043 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got an example here, but it's in a GIF or something... < 1431023667 169141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not something that sounds particularly hard, it'd just be an interpreter... < 1431023692 51570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the godel sentence thing, i've read that's enormous < 1431023736 816256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, brainfuck can be almost trivially converted to TM form < 1431023756 58838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...except I/O < 1431023809 889167 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I "need" that for my extended essay (a research essay-ish thingie at IB), as I'm proving computational class of a certain kind of automation I invented, and I'd guess it'd be best to use a program that someone else has created, to make it more "convincing" < 1431023845 525997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure minsky made a particular one that was TC with no caveats < 1431023866 739731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stay away from the wolfram thingies with infinite setup) < 1431023906 731840 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here know about the Stanford AI Lab references in documents to show who wrote them? [S77,JMC] is obviously John McCarthy. But who wrote a file with [ G,REF]? < 1431023915 842820 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically speaking, I don't need it, but I think it'd be best if I were to illustrate my translation process with some real world example, and preferably at the same time "double prove" the complenetess, as the people assessing it will not know that well this stuff) < 1431024143 870511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingly it seems hard to actually find an exact description of this. maybe ais523 knows one. < 1431024343 866391 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: found the file, not sure if it's something you've seen before http://imgur.com/afocBZq < 1431024394 116445 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, nice < 1431024433 880659 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess I could try digging up the original paper and copying it from there, to seem extra-"professional" < 1431025515 608929 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi NICK :lawspeaker < 1431025767 910325 :lawspeaker!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1431025797 101345 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431026778 578724 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1431028946 579213 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Brainfuck without IO qualifies < 1431029158 556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1431029173 85319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly nortti might not want to reference that, though < 1431029183 462282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it's also known as P'') < 1431029736 255312 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck is too complicated anyway, there are similar languages that have fewer amenities and are still turing complete < 1431029815 443343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: you realize nortti already has a starting model in mind, right < 1431029835 6838 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1431029839 598276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not very useful if the language is not easy to emulate in that < 1431029872 339453 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But the languages would be as easy as brainfuck to emulate < 1431029907 222705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1431029919 193499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, take boolfuck if you want < 1431030110 961629 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was thinking tinyBF < 1431030159 425799 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without input or output < 1431030245 20317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: i'm not sure how that | command is supposed to replace nested [] < 1431030282 995819 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is a brainfuck to tinybf translator < 1431030401 856030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show rev < 1431030402 21459 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[.<] < 1431030406 473747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show fib < 1431030406 783236 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+10>+>+[[+5[>+8<-]>.<+6[>-8<-]+<3]>.>>[[-]<[>+<-]>>[<2+>+>-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>+>+<3-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]+>>>]<3][] < 1431030412 992030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1431030429 224781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :need something short with actual nesting hm < 1431030455 30650 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any muötiplication? < 1431030471 160427 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1431030484 279107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Just put a loop-to-10 around something short that prints. < 1431030504 232689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1431030514 612348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a simple counterexample for that one bf interpreter that had broken nested loops here. < 1431030577 493379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't know how the code generated by the translator can work. < 1431030700 601920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++[->++++++++[->++++++++<]>.<<] < 1431030700 767917 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1431030700 767973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl id do bf @ ? . < 1431030706 437925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1431030715 226347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++[->+++++[->+++++++++++++<]>.[-]<<] < 1431030715 392266 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAA < 1431030729 207733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok it actually works < 1431030773 201489 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the code, I get the feeling that = is "lexically scoped" instead of "dynamically scoped". < 1431030784 672400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok obvious interpretation is that = is static so | is [ or ] dependent on = parity < 1431030793 343189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We keep thinking of the same things. < 1431030797 325952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1431030829 55714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: the result is really that this isn't simpler than bf, though < 1431030845 173204 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, more state internally < 1431030864 478182 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is another one that has the same amount of internal state < 1431030935 822677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: it's not even runtime state, it actually _is_ a bf equivalent when decoded. < 1431030988 464720 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you might as well encode bf in unary? < 1431031092 981758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for nortti's purpose you'd only need _one_ bf program encoded, a self-interpreter or the like. < 1431031118 580671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sounds a bit more verbose than minsky's TM, then) < 1431031123 176489 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1431031148 958332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly minsky's TM has really verbose programs on the tape, though. maybe it even uses a minsky machine :P < 1431031442 836452 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[-[<<[+[--->]-[<<<]]]>>>-]>-.---.>..>.<<<<-.<+.>>>>>.>.<<.<-.<<+. < 1431031443 41721 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world! < 1431031469 730432 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +>-[>>+>+[++>-<<]-<+<+]>---.<<<<++.<<----..+++.>------.<<+.>.+++.------.>>-.<+. < 1431031469 896189 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1431031552 287112 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! in 79 instructions. hello world! in 66 instructions. (from this webpage http://inversed.ru/InvMem.htm#InvMem_7) < 1431031780 490764 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C65E.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1431032883 952197 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1431032957 62467 :Tritonio!~tr@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:92e2:baff:fe42:f24c QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431034143 746405 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C65E.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431034446 358769 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is certainly an unexpected exit poll < 1431034530 843628 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1431034645 833052 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rfkwppokqxlnntrb JOIN :#esoteric < 1431035462 149582 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431035704 86871 :spatterworhty!621cff0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.28.255.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431035755 56139 :spatterworhty!621cff0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.28.255.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about making a piet assembler, but I'm having trouble figuring out how it would get the algorithm onto the picture. < 1431035843 8776 :spatterworhty!621cff0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.28.255.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would first make a graph out of the program, that represents all of the commands of the program, and then it would figure out how to lay the graph down onto the picture in a way that fits nicely. < 1431035867 757376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvd: is ukip getting the prime minister twnh < 1431035883 895463 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, almost certainly not < 1431035891 470157 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like they'll have precisely two MPs < 1431035905 460458 :spatterworhty!621cff0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.28.255.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone have any algorithm suggestions or problems to look at that would help? < 1431035941 339916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :graph rendering is definitely _not_ my area of expertise < 1431035955 757589 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431035967 573792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points at nvd as the resident piet expert < 1431035979 994750 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used Piet in years < 1431035990 784541 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know a thing about graph rendering < 1431035992 469658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned it yesterday! < 1431035998 661458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly today, evne < 1431036000 782851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*en < 1431036007 594117 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, here at least < 1431036010 345484 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1431036012 66294 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe yesterday for you < 1431036014 352935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvd: still more qualified than me, hth < 1431036024 68801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you also mentioned piet today hth < 1431036025 81144 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was to say I had forgotten what a program I wrote did! < 1431036036 773084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, the boundary between today and yesterday gets a bit fuzzy < 1431036045 227012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thx < 1431036067 784943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i've cursed myself < 1431036072 5756 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :spatterworhty, if the graph is planar, there's not too much issue, I think < 1431036078 327561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wat < 1431036082 385795 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, you can cross arcs with white space < 1431036093 254684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: by being the most recent person to mention piet < 1431036100 307278 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it's just the same graph rendering problem as all the rest < 1431036105 625335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he did it again! < 1431036134 872866 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1431036141 560707 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :spatterworhty, does that help at all? < 1431036141 835755 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvd: if only HackEgo still had access to the logs, we could make a command to check that < 1431036160 128501 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, could we patch something up with curl? < 1431036165 456120 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would that be too slow? < 1431036176 525433 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run curl --help < 1431036183 477525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1431036190 852528 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: curl [options...] \ Options: (H) means HTTP/HTTPS only, (F) means FTP only \ --anyauth Pick "any" authentication method (H) \ -a, --append Append to target file when uploading (F/SFTP) \ --basic Use HTTP Basic Authentication (H) \ --cacert FILE CA certificate to verify peer against (SSL) \ -- < 1431036191 330506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shachaf: < 1431036201 732062 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1431036209 29732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvd: curl may not have access to that server < 1431036224 616966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitelist and all < 1431036231 350421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: check the world expert on that language, you mean? < 1431036232 248282 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it can scrape the public thingy/ < 1431036244 519440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yep, aka most recent mentioner < 1431036262 590372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvd: you do know HackEgo's web access is whitelisted, right < 1431036268 384566 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not! < 1431036275 649741 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I really did not < 1431036276 464708 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1431036277 5214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's even working at the moment < 1431036300 792431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for `fetch, which is outside the sandbox but you cannot use it in other commands < 1431036312 253199 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1431036395 477085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`curl http://www.esolangs.org < 1431036396 156311 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server < 1431036399 759133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1431036409 328116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not to be up < 1431036413 570905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1431036420 639383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same server, is that a problem < 1431036462 882871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we sort of stopped using the web access after all the fun api's stopped working, so it's probably bit rotted < 1431036517 249256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone said today a text browser cannot even get google < 1431036519 289635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1431036531 522362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`curl http://www.google.com < 1431036532 172636 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server < 1431036629 838870 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ps -a | sed 's=.* ==' < 1431036630 468018 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMD < 1431037205 534935 :atrapa!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1431037425 580793 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a google API that was deprecated five years ago but still works, at least < 1431037434 412139 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it in my bot < 1431037682 44946 :spatterworhty!621cff0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.28.255.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvd: sorta? I was more hoping to learn if there would be any good resources to look at, or algorithms that would be essential. I can sorta visualize how it would work, but piet has a bunch of weird rules that would have to be incorporated into the design, and I've never worked with graphs. < 1431037722 27853 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_drawing could be a starting point < 1431037732 280520 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't something I've looked into before < 1431037889 389977 :spatterworhty!621cff0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.28.255.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, thanks. < 1431038807 846470 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. This clause I just wrote: “eine als Queue verwendete doppelt verkettete Liste reicht.” < 1431038879 628322 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A not insignificant amount of stuff going between the article and its noun there. < 1431039118 253479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the gloss for that? < 1431039121 662932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you don't mind giving it) < 1431039150 918185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(er, in the sense of word-by-word literal "translation".) < 1431039367 395707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an as queue used doubly linked list suffices < 1431039436 195020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1431039450 270899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1431039456 383342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan knows german? < 1431039464 173424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's few enough words to just look them up. < 1431039468 245660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of them are obvious. < 1431039479 758421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i only looked up "reicht" to check that i guessed it correctly < 1431039490 214602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did have 4 years of german, once < 1431039603 903042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every word in there has at least a partial cognate in english or norwegian < 1431039660 626930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and/or < 1431039696 84304 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could have replaced “Queue” with “Warteschlange” but I don’t know that that’s really used for the data structure much in practice. < 1431039697 980201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah german phrase order is something different from both < 1431039717 871279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warteschlange"? < 1431039743 325588 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The “pure” German word for a queue. < 1431039770 874567 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a funny word < 1431039772 913372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if norwegian has one. "kø" is so much shorter. < 1431039783 28272 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait-snake. < 1431039805 84113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's "venteliste" but that's for writing your name on, not for actually standing in < 1431039820 212069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not reptile-based < 1431039892 366743 :nvd!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I like about English is that it's able to take words from pretty much anywhere < 1431039898 941821 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason “Schlange” is used for a line of waiting people. “Warteschlange” is a disambiguation versus a literal snake. < 1431040046 235611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1431040178 649941 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just writing out how the phrase is composed, but it turns out rather hard to follow. The main point is that argument(s) + participle makes a valid adjective phrase. < 1431040301 700110 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, German also has “Queue” directly from French, pronounced /køː/, for a pool cue. < 1431040351 401215 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Polish word for snake also gets used for a hose (wąż) < 1431040359 3235 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :A line of waiting people is kolejka < 1431040381 408105 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a word that also relates to trains < 1431040415 744509 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And French “queue” means “tail” as well. < 1431040831 292181 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: You should combine words into longer words < 1431040835 851665 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're writing German after all < 1431041129 8440 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone wants a funny gloss, I once composing a lojban sentence expressed “have nine tails” something like “be betailed by nine somethings” (se rebla so da). < 1431041185 612763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word for train in norwegian is also used for a line of people - but parading or demonstrating, not waiting < 1431041190 88272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tog) < 1431041246 334639 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :In English, the word train can also be used to mean some form of practicing =P < 1431041247 769784 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and "kø" means pool cue too in norwegian < 1431041304 307984 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can use “Zug”-related words for parading and demonstrating in German too, but as Mark Twain (?) noted, “Zug” with appropriate modifiers and affixes can be used to express practically anything. < 1431041365 631341 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many words can you name that have "zeug" in them? < 1431041376 296828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: i think the -zug suffix that can mean absolutely everything is -tøy in norwegian. which alone means "cloth", somehow. < 1431041391 155018 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait -zeug right < 1431041464 166138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Werkzeug, verktøy, tool < 1431041511 201926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :syltetøy = jam < 1431041527 485037 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :jam? Really? < 1431041535 668501 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does sylte mean? < 1431041549 477353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the process of making jam < 1431041549 850655 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Zeug” at some point meant something like “equipment”, and now by itself means “stuff” or “junk”. < 1431041559 820840 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1431041566 834283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also some meat stuff < 1431041586 805521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :svinesylte < 1431041595 984502 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Sülze”? < 1431041596 149868 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Polish word for jam is boring < 1431041617 835712 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dżem (pronounced similarly to jam, but with an e instead) < 1431041681 361546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: looks possibly related < 1431041714 291268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nedsyltet i gjeld = drowning in debt < 1431041725 454899 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Looks like that is it, yes. < 1431041873 323524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sylteagurk = pickled cucumber < 1431041895 437032 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be related to “salt” too. < 1431041916 848900 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Specifically a soured one, rather vinegar? < 1431041939 60105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: "Sylteagurk er agurker som er syltet i en sursøt eddiklake." < 1431041961 195905 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't speak Norwegian < 1431041991 883358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry, confusing you with FireFly < 1431042018 983568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "in a sour-sweet vinegar brine" is probably the end of that < 1431042076 113778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: i note that's apparently Salzgurke in german, so... < 1431042087 353557 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Depends on the region actually. < 1431042106 78276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1431042109 421394 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call it a saure Gurke. < 1431042133 64994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, de.wikipedia gives both < 1431042156 578398 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The German wp article describes them as cucumbers preserved through lactic acid fermentation. < 1431042214 677191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: hm i wonder if german Geld and norwegian gjeld are cognate, despite having almost opposite meanings < 1431042246 229792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose recipes always vary. < 1431042334 948224 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431042358 303293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm seems so, although wiktionary is missing the norwegian, swedish gäld is cognate. < 1431042374 800748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but archaic < 1431042419 243516 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah, the synonyms section on “Geld”. < 1431042445 227326 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Polish word for money is completely unrelated < 1431042459 985066 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's norwegian for "border"? < 1431042487 384518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: for countries, grense < 1431042490 451888 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ash, gravel, clay, coal, toads, mice, …, moss, … < 1431042522 778291 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Pretty much the same as German then < 1431042538 958782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: the norwegian word for money is "penger" (plural) < 1431042552 86239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably cognate to Pfennig < 1431042562 701671 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That looks completely hilarious to me for some reason. < 1431042573 90147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1431042599 519524 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like it would mean something like “banger” or “popper”. < 1431042613 65089 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(… “whizzpopper”!) < 1431042625 900943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, -er is the most common plural suffix for nouns in norwegian < 1431042642 930913 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Border is granica in Polish, and money is pieniądze < 1431042646 237584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _also_ has the same meaning as in german, sometimes < 1431042654 295614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: ooh < 1431042685 542301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very similar < 1431042726 827950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Borrowed by the Teutonic Order in the 13th century from a Slavic language (compare Common Slavic *granica (“boundary, border”)), then borrowed again into western German from Polish in the 15th century. Luther helped to popularize the word, which he spelled grentze; another old spelling was Gränze." < 1431042743 334195 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you have something cognate to “Mark”? < 1431042753 187864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: in what meaning? < 1431042813 415171 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mark, border, demarcated land, something along those lines? < 1431042821 205488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, "mark" hth < 1431042854 926453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of our county names: Finnmark, Hedmark < 1431042907 526741 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that’s about what I was looking for. < 1431042942 432245 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hellœrjan. that would be cognate to fr:marche hth < 1431042957 134324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nordmarka, oslo's recreational area, Bymarka, trondheim's < 1431042968 29687 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :There’s also English “march” in the sense of borderlands. < 1431043113 734637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems to be both romance and germanic < 1431043162 902714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the germanic is original