00:04:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:07:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:09:59 the one time i forgot a pen in the laundry went surprisingly well. it even wrote afterward. 00:10:23 i have, however, no intention of repeating such a mistake. 00:11:31 well i _think_ it wrote. my memory is a little vague. 00:11:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:18:15 oil based ballpoint probably would not cuase problems in the laundry 00:24:17 * boily keeps his pens away from his washing machine and oerjan 00:36:49 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 00:37:36 The DEC technical character set doesn't seem to work in this version of xterm 00:39:40 that's one bigass sum symbol... http://www.vt100.net/charsets/dec-technical-vt420-green.png 00:41:02 if I want to display nonunicode characters in a terminal, are there any magical escape sequences for that? 00:41:15 boily: yes, but it depends on what you mean by "nonunicode" 00:41:20 boily: what encoding are they in? 00:43:58 I want to use a different kind of character set that you can select subsets of, which can include all characters in: PC character set, all DEC character sets, Commodore 64, Apple MouseText, up to 256 user-defined characters, and probably also some more. 00:44:35 zzo38: I think all those are in Unicode? 00:44:57 No, not all of them are. 00:45:08 Neither is Infocom character graphics, the other one I missed 00:45:33 Some characters from some of these sets are, including the entire PC character set, but not all of the others 00:45:48 the "up to 256 user-defined characters" are 00:45:54 ais523: anything outside of unicode. mainly obscure platform-specific glyphs. 00:46:04 boily: oh, I see 00:46:11 incidentally, probably what zzo38 is looking for at. 00:46:17 there aren't any /standard/ codes for that because such a thing would have to be highly nonstandard 00:46:24 makes sense. 00:46:42 hmm... otoh, can I address individual pixels in a modern terminal and plot arbitrary data in it? 00:46:44 -!- lleu has joined. 00:46:44 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 00:46:44 -!- lleu has joined. 00:46:56 lleu, helleu. 00:47:06 boily: unless it's xterm, no 00:47:08 boily: You can use Sixel, but you have to start at a tile 00:47:20 xterm can emulate more than one terminal, and one of them is graphical 00:47:21 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:47:31 but it has codes that are nothing like a vt100 00:47:40 scow. too lazy to launch xterm. 00:48:03 Yes, it has codes from later DEC terminals as well, as well as several of its own codes. 00:49:45 :t any 00:49:47 Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool 00:51:56 > or (Just True) 00:51:58 True 00:52:47 > sum (Left "hi") 00:52:49 0 00:53:18 * oerjan lets it sink in 00:54:07 :t sum 00:54:08 (Num a, Foldable t) => t a -> a 00:54:22 Left "hi" is Either String a 00:54:31 So... uh... Num a implies having a zero? 00:54:37 yes 00:54:43 :t 0 00:54:44 Num a => a 00:55:09 also, defaulting to Integer 00:55:13 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:27 not having anything implies having a nothing. 00:55:38 > sum Nothing 00:55:39 0 00:56:23 LA LA LA CAN'T SEE ANYTHING LA LA LA ♪ 00:57:29 > length Nothing 00:57:31 0 00:58:17 > foldr (-) 0 (Just 1) 00:58:19 1 01:00:58 :t foldr 01:00:59 Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b 01:01:46 basically, most of the list functions got generalized 01:02:50 which is nice. but also stuff. 01:10:26 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:31:16 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:31:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SOLVABLE CHICKEN). 02:06:10 -!- variable has joined. 02:16:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:23:03 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 02:30:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:41:26 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 02:42:20 -!- idris-bot has joined. 02:49:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:36:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:04:44 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:06:29 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:10:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:34:28 Hoorah, I have met shachaf in meatspacde. 04:36:12 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 04:36:55 does he look like his SO profile picture 04:37:12 No. 04:37:18 wat 04:37:24 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: "thats fantastic :b"). 04:37:26 shachaf: this is outrageous! 04:40:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:48:34 Hellu 04:52:27 murning 05:38:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:40:33 Attempting to watch a TOS episode 05:40:34 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:40:39 The effects are so... bad 05:40:45 -!- Wright has joined. 05:42:08 By the standards of the day they were quite good. 05:42:21 Wait til you see contemporary Dr Who episodes. 05:44:47 I'm only watching this episode because I've seen multiple references to it and suggestions that it's really good 05:46:23 So I'm not sure what Dr Who episodes would be contemporary 05:54:19 And there's some stutter like the Rift gets if fps is too low 05:56:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:57:30 Hellu 05:57:46 zzo38: Hi 06:03:45 Oh crap I recognize this name from fanfiction :( 06:04:35 Which name? 06:04:36 Mine? 06:04:45 Sgeo 06:05:02 Wiit 06:05:08 *wait 06:05:36 Now that I've said that even if it wasn't me now you know... 06:05:38 Whoops 06:07:15 The name of a character in this episode 06:07:45 Oh 06:07:48 Also predicting atomic power would require more than "speculation" if you're not a physicist, so guessing "speculation" is a bad guess 06:09:01 Sorry for any spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it yet 06:10:20 I don't know what show you're talking about 06:10:21 So... 06:10:50 Star Trek The Original Series "City on the Edge of Forever" 06:10:57 And now I will stop looking at this channel 06:11:00 Or try to 06:11:07 Ah 06:15:46 What's with "6" in front of lyrics in the closed captions? 06:20:39 oerjan: pikhq must be confused. 06:21:27 i look a lot more like that picture than you do like http://stackoverflow.com/users/1088108/%C3%98rjan-johansen , i'm sure 06:21:41 and anyway who's to confirm i even met pikhq 06:24:02 clearly pikhq must have met an imposter, then 06:49:10 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 06:53:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:01:02 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:08:04 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 07:19:24 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 07:21:35 -!- tromp has joined. 07:25:50 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:48:27 -!- olsner has joined. 07:49:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:06:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:06:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZ). 08:35:47 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:09:02 -!- Wright has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:41:16 oh fuck them 09:41:35 another stupid webpage that gives only some stupid unusable javascript map for searching their shops, instead of a usable LIST 09:41:40 what are they thinking? 09:43:09 what do you mean? 09:43:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:52:28 -!- SopaLostPass has joined. 09:56:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:03:18 mroman: ok wait, let me explain. FooCorp is a very big faceless corporation that not only has a webpage, but also lots of real life buildings where clients can walk in and use their services. 10:04:01 As there's many such buildings, even within Budapest, I want to know which one to go to. This depends on the location, the opening hours, the services available there, and some other stuff. 10:04:45 FooCorp should put a list of their buildings on there homepage, in plain HTML format, giving the address, opening hour, and list of services, for each building. 10:05:44 They don't do that. Instead they have some unusable fancy combined server side and javascript search page, where you first have to specify in the search form which district you want shops in (so you can't just list all, but have to try all 20 possibilities), and then give some crazy javascript map page that I can't use, instead of a list of matches. 10:05:52 This is true for at least two values of FooCorp. 10:06:29 Their homepage is so unusable that I have to ask about the sites on phone or in person. 10:08:07 Is that clearer? 10:08:09 Yep. 10:08:14 Those pages suck. 10:08:31 It'd be easier to grep a text file . 10:08:49 Yes, at least as an alternative. 10:11:15 For at least one value of FooCorp, I had actually asked by phone, and then just found out that they gave an incorrect answer (unless it's changed recently). 10:12:46 For another value of FooCorp, I'm not sure what to call by phone, because they don't generally do business by phone, and don't seem to have a general information phone line as far as I'm aware (maybe they do, but I can't find that from their homepage). 10:13:55 And when I said "faceless", I mean the individual workers I meet often don't know more than what's necessary for their job, so in person they usually can't tell me about the other sites. 10:15:39 I don't know whether if I call them by phone they have to use the same stupid javascript thingy (which however may actually work slightly better on their work machines) or they have something better. 10:15:59 This may depend on the value of FooCorp and my question. 10:19:04 Information like this changes quickly enough that lists made by third parties are usually obsolate. 10:33:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:07:06 -!- SopaLostPass has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:30:30 -!- boily has joined. 11:49:19 -!- Froox has joined. 11:51:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:51:48 -!- atslash has joined. 11:55:55 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:56:13 -!- atslash has joined. 12:18:43 -!- lleu has joined. 12:18:43 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 12:18:43 -!- lleu has joined. 12:43:15 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:45:43 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:06:34 -!- mauris has joined. 13:09:38 -!- ski has joined. 13:26:07 `wisdom 13:26:11 copumpkin/copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president. 13:27:22 @tell copumpkin come back here you vile cocucurbitaceæ! 13:27:22 Consider it noted. 13:30:24 `wisdom 13:30:25 justice/Justice is just behavior or treatment. 13:30:30 `wisdom 13:30:31 output/ 13:30:44 `` culprits wisdom/output 13:30:47 oerjan elliott olsner 13:46:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SIPHONOPHORE CHICKEN). 13:47:59 -!- TieSoul has joined. 13:53:46 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:08:07 -!- tromp has joined. 14:20:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:31:34 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:12:17 -!- atrapado has joined. 15:23:23 Wisdom from the neural net: 15:23:24 01:00:02: I don't know. There's a program on the different commands and a constant thing that aren't the same as a human function that is the same as a language to get a specific article. 15:24:17 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:24:48 Hellu! 15:27:18 helloren 15:30:45 -!- heroux has joined. 15:31:30 fungot: Wisdom from the n-gram synthesis? 15:31:30 fizzie: for example, write a glass interpreter in c. code has no memory model. all models are wrong. 15:40:18 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:45:05 -!- heroux has joined. 15:45:32 I just learnt that M:tG isn't the only game with a flaming horse. There's a flaming horse pokémon too. 15:46:21 (Ponyta) 15:51:27 and rapidash 15:52:02 its evolved form, yes 15:52:19 I guess fire, ice, and water versions of every popular animal exists in fiction 15:54:29 also dire and celestial and giant versions, plus miniature versions of every animal that isn't already small or smaller 16:02:45 Wait wtf?! unicode includes a ㋼ but no circled ン? 16:03:12 who even uses a ヰ let alone a circled one?!?! 16:05:00 how are Pokémons in different generation Pokémon games so similar? 16:05:49 oren: why would you need a circled n? 16:06:18 aren't these for bullet headings or things like that? 16:06:39 I though they were for trademarks? 16:06:51 trademarks? how so 16:07:26 Like some store might but each kana of their name in a circle? 16:07:41 trademarks is ™ 16:08:40 oren: um... I don't see how that would work. you could use a circled single kana as a trade mark, but it would be a logo, not a character. 16:09:30 I don't see why you'd do it for every character in a name though, unless you somehow associate a different product with each of them, like one for coke, one for fruit juice, one for ginger ale, one for tonic 16:11:46 One of the first results searching for ㋐ is a japanese forum where someone is asking why the character exists 16:12:17 I can see that, but I still don't see why you'd need a circled n character 16:12:36 For completeness 16:13:12 If you're going to have wi, which isn't even used much anymore, you should have n, which is. 16:13:57 wi isn't used in words, but it's still known to exist in the series of kana, so I imagine someone might use it if he starts numbering passages with letters 16:14:39 eg. in a hungarian book or law, if points are marked with letters of the alphabet starting with a, b, c; it will use "q" eventually in a long enough list even though "q" doesn't usually appear in Hungarian words 16:14:55 that makes sense 16:15:31 I don't know whether a list marked with kana would use wi, and it may depend 16:16:57 btw, these lists get horribly inconsistent when they need just a few more items than there are letters in the alphabet 16:17:33 most of the time they're used only when they need between 2 and about 13 items only 16:18:53 For lists in English texts I've seen numbers, letters, roman numbers, lowercase roman numbers, and in one case greek letters. 16:20:15 I think Excel goes A...Z,AA,AB,...AZ,BA 16:22:17 What numbering schemes does HTML support? 16:23:09 oren: quite a few, check the css documents 16:24:02 the AA thing apparently works with type="a" 16:24:25 oren: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/list-style-type 16:26:06 apparently css even allows you to create new list numbering styles 16:26:10 http://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/#counter-style 16:27:38 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:27:44 it's quite complicated 16:29:09 http://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/#predefined-counters lists the predefined styles 16:35:15 apparently the CSS standard draft guys are perfectionists 16:47:21 counter-style cjk-earthly-branch 16:47:25 .... wow. 16:50:02 OH! they didn't include circled ン because ン doesn't appear in the iroha 16:52:43 and thus when things are numbered by the iroha you don't need it 16:56:42 oren: why is ン considered a "real" kana in first place when ー isn't? 16:59:25 it used to be mu 17:01:15 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:01:33 -!- tromp has joined. 17:01:45 -!- heroux has joined. 17:02:52 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:33 b_jonas: not sure 17:07:41 Well I mean it was introduced later than the other kana. 17:12:05 but then, the letters w and v are newer 17:12:49 is 17:13:17 is å counted as a letter? 17:13:50 oren: it's certainly a letter, the question is whether it's considered an accented version of a or a separate letter 17:13:58 right 17:14:11 but I'm not sure I care about those distinctions 17:14:13 they're sort of pointless 17:14:26 it's like when people discuss which digraphs count as letters 17:14:49 the actually relevant points are how stuff are sorted in which traditional alphabetic order, 17:15:00 and there's like a separate order per language, or sometimes two or three of them, 17:15:08 plus what letters count as the same in crossword puzzles. 17:15:27 But I guess the question is if Excel had been invented in Norway would å be a column head? 17:15:50 oren: oh, there's that too, yes 17:16:13 oren: I'm quite sure that ö is never used in any of the listings for Hungarian, 17:16:32 though a few use "sz" or "zs" or other digraphs, but those are rare too, they mostly come up when they run out of letters 17:16:52 the most important actual variation is actually whether they include only "i" or only "j" or both "i" and "j" 17:17:01 there are conflicting traditions on that 17:18:06 there's also some variations on how strings with spaces are sorted 17:20:06 luckily how strings without spaces are sorted is quite fixed in Hungarian, there's only one order 17:20:39 (technically, how dzs is sorted may have changed around the 80s when they turned it officially to a letter, but I don't think that ever comes up as a difference in any list of real strings) 17:21:31 (you'd basically need a string that can be continued with both "dzs" and "dzú" or something, and "dz" is a pretty rare letter in the first place) 17:21:52 is "dzs" one square in a crossword puzzle 17:24:08 mauris: no. even "sz" is two squares 17:24:12 crosswords have their own crazy rules 17:24:23 however, "sz" is one square in Scrabble 17:24:25 so it's complicated 17:26:07 where crosswords differ is whether some vowels are allowed to be considered the same (so the horizontal word can contain one vowel but the vertical word a different one), and I think it's sort of an implementation quality thing in crosswords, as in, a crossword is "better" if it considers each 14 vowels different 17:32:24 In German, crosswords universally require äöüß to be written as ae, oe, ue, ss. 17:33:01 Melvar: wow, I didn't know that 17:33:08 I wouldn't have guessed about ae oe ue 17:33:22 Writing ß as ss makes sense of course 17:33:49 the only time vowels are written as two vowels are very old telegram/telex messages. 17:33:57 in Hungarian that is 17:38:16 < b_jonas> how are Pokémons in different generation Pokémon games so similar? – Could you be more specific? Do you mean the ones that obviously occupy similar ecological niches in different regions? 17:39:31 (And similar niches regarding players and npcs.) 17:40:58 Melvar: no, I mean most pokémons from generation 1 pokémon seem to exist in all later generations with the same name and type and generally the same proeprties or very similar properties 17:42:01 despite that there's been decades of the consoles and games improving tech wise 17:42:17 Oh. They’re the same ones. AFAIK Pokémon have never been removed from the national dex, only added. 17:42:40 exactly 17:43:20 I’m not sure what you mean by why there. It’s all the same world, canonically. 17:43:24 well some have been given new types 17:43:32 the same world, so the pokémons exist in the story 17:43:51 the strange part is that they're all (or most of them) still in the game and catchable and playable 17:43:58 electrode was pure electric in earlier games and became electric/steel 17:44:09 and the properties that matter in play, such as moves or how they evolve, are very similar too 17:44:16 oren: You’re thinking of the magnemite line, not electrode. 17:44:32 oh right 17:45:12 I mostly stopped playing after silver. (I beat a few of the newer games, but stopped playing after I beat them) 17:45:19 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:45:29 b_jonas: Generally they keep getting new moves as moves are added, but they generally keep being able to learn all the ones they could in earlier generations. 17:45:44 I’m just not sure what you find strange about it. 17:45:44 Melvar: I see 17:46:27 Melvar: dunno, are there any other series of games where the games are two decades apart, and have actually using two decades newer technology, but are so similar to each other? 17:47:08 Hmmm... what about the handheld 2D Zelda games 17:47:09 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:47:14 -!- atehwa has joined. 17:47:39 -!- villasukka has joined. 17:47:45 compare the gameplay of Links awakening to misih cap 17:47:49 *minish cap 17:48:07 Well, I can think of one example, tetris games are somewhat similar until you start to do crazy tricks 17:48:57 Hmm... the PC Touhou series started in 2002 17:49:04 So that's one decade 17:49:16 There are a bunch of subtleties with mechanics being added and changed that make the later games play somewhat differently in some respects. So matchups might have quite different results. 17:49:36 and no characters have been removed from the Touhou universe 17:49:51 (since the PC era anyway) 17:50:08 well, some tetris games. not all. 17:50:55 b_jonas: If you have all the right hardware and software versions and stuff, you can probably still transfer a third-generation pokemon over all the way to the sixth. Also between the first and second, but between second and third there is no connectivity. 17:52:17 Street Fighter! AFAIK most characters from the original are in the most recent one 17:52:28 Melvar: yes, that makes it even more amazing. 17:52:45 oren: oh true, there's Mortal Kombat too 17:52:58 which has lots of common characters 17:53:11 some characters are removed in some later games, but still 17:54:19 b_jonas: Basically, most of the times they were like “transfer pokémon from the previous generation!” So necessarily everything needed to support the previous stuff. 17:54:30 Melvar: I see 17:56:03 M:tG is sort of an example, with two decades of support of strange old cards on paper, and one decade in video games 17:57:19 Whether that’s the actual reason, I don’t know. It may well also have been a highly successful strategy to lure people from one generation to the next. 17:57:44 Also there’s the remakes. 17:58:32 Nintendo knows that I will buy a game over and over again 17:58:32 wait, Panglacial Wurm is from Coldsnap? 17:58:35 that's CRAZY 17:58:43 (Gen 3 included remakes of the main Gen 1 games, Gen 4 of Gen 2, Gen 6 of Gen 3.) 17:58:44 I thought it was an old card 17:58:52 which would explain why it has such a strange ability 17:59:02 but it's a new one, printed _knowing_ it's a strange ability 17:59:12 wtf did they do that? 17:59:35 did that strange mechanic exist on an older card? 17:59:43 * Melvar is currently playing a Gen 3 pokémon game … emulated on his phone. 18:00:09 I don't think it did 18:00:10 I don't feel guilty emulating nintendo games that I've bought three times 18:00:31 To be sure, shachaf looks more like SO shachaf than oerjan looks like SO oerjan, I'm sure. 18:03:23 -!- tromp has joined. 18:05:00 I'm not on StackOverflow 18:05:24 I should put a picture of myself on my website... 18:07:32 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:18:51 Conservapedia says that Wikipedia's article about Riemann "contains little discussion of Riemann's faith and tries to downplay his fundamentalism as though it were merely a passing interest as a teenager". I have looked; it seems to contain a reasonable amount of discussion to me, and the other criticisms Conservapedia makes are also invalid, although perhaps this information could be made easier to find; currently information about his religious be 18:28:35 Conservapedia also seems to misunderstand what the word "mythology" even means. 18:39:07 Hmm, I'm actually using two pinned windows now. Maybe I should reinstate the keyboard shortcut for pinning a window when I rework my window manager configuration. 18:39:13 I didn't use to use pinned windows much 18:46:27 What window manager is that? 18:46:39 zzo38: icewm 18:47:00 pinned means it stays on the screen when I switch between "virtual desktops" 18:48:17 and I'll want to rework the window manager configuration a bit anyway, though I won't change anything really significant, but I want to set it up so I can control two nested instances (such as inside and outside vnc) so there's two variations of the wm config with the more important keyboard shortcuts duplicated in some consistent manner (eg. with or without shift) 18:56:19 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 18:56:33 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 18:57:56 I also don't know of other cards with Panglacial Wurm's special ability 18:59:26 It does mean you can use mana abilities while searching your library; see which cases it helps with 19:00:22 zzo38: yep, and I was wondering if a mana ability could somehow cause to end your turn during searching your library, and what would happen then with the rest of the effects on the spell you're resolving 19:00:40 eg. at what step would you put the land you searched for into play 19:01:00 Yes, there is that too, but I don't know of any mana abilities that end your turn immediately 19:01:05 or whether there's some multiplayer shenenigans 19:01:23 zzo38: not immediately, but as some multi-step consequence of say sacrificing permanents 19:01:42 but it's hard because most of the tricky things don't happen immediately, but only as triggers or state-based effects 19:01:59 Yes that is what I thought. 19:02:19 the rulings mention that you can mill your library while searching using Panglacial 19:02:24 But it can be of interest if a puzzle is made up that involves this using the mana abilities while searching your library. 19:03:15 Yes, you can know what the top card of your library is and use this to determine whether or not you want to discard it due to Millikin 19:03:46 sure, but that's not really breaking anything 19:03:52 there are easier ways to know what's in your library 19:04:47 I was wondering if there's some way to search your library but not shuffle afterwards, but it's probably both impossible and wouldn't be interesting, because the rules don't actually permit you to rearrange your library when searching technically 19:04:58 Yes, although it is still one way, such as if that is all you have available 19:05:20 (except that you can lose the game, but then your library won't be interesting anymore)_ 19:08:16 Unrelated to Panglacial, there's one rules thing that I don't understand. 19:08:27 What rule is it? 19:09:33 There are actions in the rules that are supposed to happen "at the same time", and this can involve putting multiple cards onto the battlefield, and that happens fast enough that the Ally trigger on each of them happens. 19:10:05 But consider Land Equilibrium. This has a replacement ability that can replace putting a card onto the battlefield with two events that aren't supposed to happen at the same time. 19:10:20 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:10:20 What happens when Land Equilibrium replaces putting one of multiple cards onto the battlefield? 19:10:34 In what order and speed do the events happen then? 19:10:49 -!- pdxleif has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:50 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:50 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:50 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:51 -!- jix_ has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:51 -!- sunnymilk has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:55 -!- b_jonas has joined. 19:10:56 -!- jix has joined. 19:10:56 -!- nortti has joined. 19:10:59 -!- int-e has joined. 19:11:09 -!- sunnymilk has joined. 19:11:25 -!- pdxleif has joined. 19:11:27 I don't know, maybe if you read the rules you can figure out 19:11:33 Uh, irc server shut down. How much did I get through? 19:11:40 What happens when Land Equilibrium replaces putting one of multiple cards onto the battlefield? 19:11:46 In what order and speed do the events happen then? 19:12:01 Obviously I don't believe that "at the same time" actually means at the same time, it's just fast enough that some things aren't checked in between by the rules. 19:12:16 But still, I don't know what happens with a replace like this, and I haven't seen a relevant rule. 19:12:52 Luckily such replacement effects seem to be rare. 19:13:14 Sheltered Valley has another one. 19:13:37 But Land Equilibrium is probably the best. 19:15:39 There is one of my own card that has a mana ability that counters all spells with split-second ability 19:16:37 zzo38: one what? 19:17:52 which card is that? I don't see it in http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt 19:18:07 and can it counter a spell during paying its cost? 19:20:26 It is a mana ability, so it can work even while spells with split-second are on the stack, and when you can use mana abilities (such as with Panglacial Wurm) 19:20:57 It is "Stone of Interruption" 19:22:34 zzo38: great, I think you can use that during paying for a Stone of Interruption that you started to cast 19:23:01 Yes 19:23:24 Is it also possible to somehow use it to counter a split second spell while it's resolving? I don't remember what split second spells there are 19:23:31 I also have "Kjugobe's Psychic Control" which grants another spell a split second ability 19:24:51 Also I think you can still face morph cards when spells with split second are on the stack 19:25:00 I was thinking of an instant with "Turn target spell face down.", let's call this Pongify Spell. How much would that break the rules, now that we can manifest sorceries? 19:26:24 wow, you've made a lot of new cards. I'll have to look at them later. 19:26:27 I don't quite know, although I did make a card that has "Manifest target spell" 19:27:11 What? "Manifest target spell"? what does that do if that spell isn't a card (but a copy of a spell)? 19:28:18 I don't know, although I have made up a rule that makes spells that aren't represented as cards to come into play as tokens 19:28:50 Possibly studying the other rules, can figure out more 19:28:51 UVC, or Unicode Vernacular C, is a dialect of C in which certain unicode characters may be used in place of certain sequences of ASCII characters. 19:30:12 Spells that come into play as tokens, such as when they resolve? Now that's scary. 19:30:53 Yes, such as if you make a copy of an enchantment spell or creature spell or whatever 19:31:00 That'd need a careful modification of that tricky rule that gives all the exceptions of when an effect can follow an object moving through zones. 19:31:06 for example, ≥ ≤ and ≡ may be used instead of <= >= == respectively 19:31:43 oren: there seems to be something like that for Haskell, used in all kinds of articles printing haskell code 19:31:52 research articles 19:32:07 I don't think I've seen it with C yet 19:33:42 eg. for haskell, there are characters representing each of ++ -> <- :: 19:33:56 and more symbol combinations that I don't remember right now 19:38:32 for completeness for C++, we need characters for >= <= == != << >> ++ -- // /* */ && || :: -> 19:43:50 oren: also for ... 19:44:31 oren: and possibly for /= *= += -= <<= >>= &= ^= |= 19:44:48 also possibly for [[ and ]] which aren't really digraphs 19:44:52 and definitely for ## 19:45:26 also definitely for -> .* ->* 19:45:43 -> is very common 19:46:47 ≥≤≡≠≪≫║∷→ 19:47:19 oren: … 19:47:25 for logical and and or ∧ ∨ would make sense 19:47:36 oren: I wouldn't like that, no 19:47:41 why 19:47:44 especially not with ^ 19:48:02 well obviously we would not use ^ for that 19:48:12 apparently the better convention is to use & | circledplus for bitwise ops 19:48:30 and forget abut vee and wedge in that context 19:48:40 ⊕ 19:48:57 yeah that 19:49:01 I actually have that in my font 19:49:27 -!- x10A94 has joined. 20:15:33 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:46:24 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:58:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:00:03 Accept = backspace / or / backspace = as an alternative to != then 21:06:06 Ooh, we're talking about Magic. 21:07:13 Are spell permanents, and spell cards in hand, actually spells? 21:07:19 No 21:07:26 Only on the stack count as spells 21:07:59 When you target a spell, you can only target a spell on the stack. 21:08:45 So "turn target spell face down" would necessarily act on a spell on the stack. 21:10:14 Yes 21:12:35 Then the rules say it would "have no characteristics other than those listed by" the thing that let you turn it face down. So if the instant just said to turn it face down, it would end up with no characteristics at all. 21:13:17 tswett: what zzo38 says, except note that "spell" is used in a different meaning in the phrase "spell type". 21:13:45 tswett: what? wouldn't it still be a 2/2 creature 21:14:03 I thought it might be a 2/2 creature with a mana cost of {3} and nothing else 21:14:05 maybe not while on the stack 21:14:09 I dunno 21:14:12 b_jonas: that only applies to permanents turned face down, not spells. 21:14:23 (Although you don't have to pay the mana cost in this case anyways) 21:14:33 Also, apparently if a permanent is turned face down, it has no mana cost. 21:14:42 oh wait, does Nix works on a face down spell? 21:14:47 O, OK 21:14:48 one cast with morph specifically? 21:14:55 oh wait 21:14:57 b_jonas: I would think it works on any spell cast without paying any mana. 21:15:00 Nix doesn't work like that 21:15:09 yeah, Nix doesn't care about the mana cost or converted mana cost 21:15:09 A spell cast with morph was paid with three mana, so it can't be used 21:15:16 which conterspells care about that? 21:15:46 So what happens when a spell with no characteristics and no text resolves? 21:15:48 And then, there is my "Phyrexian Nix" variant 21:16:17 Does it go to the graveyard, and thus get turned face up again? 21:16:23 tswett: I would do, it just comes into play; if for some reason it cannot, it goes to the graveyard instead. 21:16:24 Dispersal Shield 21:16:43 so how does Dispersal Shield work with a spell cast face down using morph? 21:16:50 But what do the rules say happens? 21:16:52 (I knew I had such a counterspell) 21:17:26 tswett: it should come to play face down as part of resolving, without getting turned face up, I think 21:17:28 I don't know; what does that card say? 21:17:59 zzo38: Dispersal Shield is an Instant with "Counter target spell if its converted mana cost is less than or equal to the highest converted mana cost among permanents you control." 21:18:04 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:18:52 it's one of those multiple cards from the Onslaught block that care about Scornful Egoist 21:19:08 Scornful Egotist 21:25:55 There's a lot of other counterspells that care about cmc, including Disdainful Stroke; Disrupting Shoal; Induce Paranoia; Overwhelming Intellect; Prohibit; Rethink; Spell Burst; Spell Blast (wow, it has remainder text for cmc, they're finally starting to put SANE remainder text on cards, great!); Thoughtbind. 21:26:34 The most famous such counterspell is probably Mana Drain. 21:28:52 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:32:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:34:06 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:34:29 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:36:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:39:11 -!- rodgort has joined. 21:58:06 huge thuderstorm here. my power's probably going to go out 21:58:29 oren, good luck 21:58:43 those bloody incompetents at toronto hydro can't waterproof anything 21:59:03 @metar CYYZ 21:59:03 CYYZ 022151Z 22013G51KT 210V300 5SM +TSRA FEW009 BKN026CB OVC250 18/14 A2976 RMK SF2CB4CI2 FRQ LTGIC ALQDS WSHFT 2143 PRESFR SLP078 DENSITY ALT 1200FT 21:59:35 gusting 51 knots! crazy 21:59:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:00:03 Wooow 22:00:34 oren, the highest the weather station I use has ever seen was 62 knots 22:00:43 And that was... last year 22:03:36 it has settleed down a little 22:04:06 yeah it's down to a drizzle. 22:06:31 but my power could still go out, when the water sinks into the earth and fucks up the cables 22:06:51 hm i haven't looked at the blitzersomething site in a while 22:07:40 blitzortung 22:08:29 oh they have a world map now 22:09:14 something's definitely happening in the lakes area 22:09:15 What is that? 22:09:23 Oh, the thundermap thing 22:10:32 hm it disconnected 22:20:25 I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea 22:20:48 dieareses 22:20:59 fuck I can't spell that bullshit 22:21:22 diaeresis 22:22:43 `addquote I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea 22:22:49 1251) I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea 22:23:39 let this be a warning to other fontomaniacs 22:24:25 lol 22:24:31 I'm not sure what the distinction is between SO shachaf and shachaf. 22:24:38 they're the same person hth 22:25:11 you're just shachaf. the other one is SO shachaf. hth. 22:25:12 Also http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png is my picture almost everywhere. I'm not sure why you picked SO. 22:25:13 shachaf, SO shachaf is unbelievably shachaf. He is so shachaf I can't even handle how shachaf he is 22:25:43 shachaf: easiest to find at a moment's notice? 22:25:46 the number 8 should formally be decomposable as o with ring above 22:26:00 I use http://slbkbs.org/yawg-prime.png at work so I don't confuse different accounts. 22:26:52 It's a bit more professional. 22:27:17 er... 22:27:24 * oerjan skeptical 22:27:40 oerjan, I don't see why 22:27:46 That is a really professional picture 22:28:10 i think it's a bit spotty 22:28:21 It's a yo dawg. 22:28:40 ...ah 22:28:44 Anyway I am going to go to bed now 22:29:06 say hi to the monster 22:31:00 oerjan, the monster quit a while back due to unworkable conditions 22:31:20 ah. 22:32:33 Which really days tell me that I ought to tidy my room 22:33:15 figures 22:37:47 -!- variable has joined. 22:41:04 `` hg log wisdom/output | grep Summary 22:41:06 No output. 22:41:14 `` hg log wisdom/output 22:41:15 changeset: 3516:086a7a03de20 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Aug 28 21:11:30 2013 +0000 \ summary: touch wisdom/output 22:41:20 `` hg log wisdom/output | grep summary 22:41:22 summary: touch wisdom/output 22:41:26 ah. 22:41:50 `rm wisdom/output 22:41:52 No output. 22:42:04 ...oh. 22:42:37 `revert 22:42:45 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 22:43:00 that's p. clever 22:43:46 much of the wisdom is not `wisdom-compatible 22:44:40 Oh, wait. 22:44:54 I thought it was a trap set for oerjan that prints "No output." when you rm it. 22:44:57 But it also works with `? 22:45:37 * pikhq sits down and attempts not to explode 22:45:59 pikhq: too much nitroglycerin? 22:46:48 spot of the nitroglycerin, governor? 22:51:38 i see you're going boom or bust with your meme 22:52:07 please don't call it that tdnh 22:52:39 mediocreme 23:01:28 -!- rg_ has joined. 23:01:30 now why would I touch wisdom/output 23:02:13 whoa whoa whoa 23:02:16 hellolsner 23:06:36 shalomchaf 23:06:58 ...why have i never thought of that one. 23:07:02 oerjan: you have hth 23:07:21 O KAY 23:07:44 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-06-30#225319oerjan 23:10:38 must have been an impersonator 23:11:31 imitatørjan 23:12:36 `? wisdom 23:12:37 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 23:12:42 `? wisdom 23:12:44 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 23:12:50 `wisdom 23:12:51 hand/A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 23:12:56 `wisdom 23:12:58 phantom__________hoover/OK you got me there. 23:13:13 see? another non-`wisdom compatible one. 23:13:27 what? 23:15:12 -!- wqe23 has joined. 23:15:27 -!- wqe23 has left ("Leaving"). 23:17:57 `` for n in `seq 1 3`; do u="$(perl -e "print '_' x $n")"; echo -n "$n: "; \? phantom${u}hoover; done 23:17:59 1: Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. \ 2: Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is. \ 3: Phantom___Hoover sucks at ghosting himself. 23:18:01 `` for n in `seq 4 6`; do u="$(perl -e "print '_' x $n")"; echo -n "$n: "; \? phantom${u}hoover; done 23:18:02 4: phantom____hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ 5: phantom_____hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ 6: phantom______hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:18:05 `` for n in `seq 7 9`; do u="$(perl -e "print '_' x $n")"; echo -n "$n: "; \? phantom${u}hoover; done 23:18:07 7: It doesn't get any better than this. \ 8: phantom________hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ 9: phantom_________hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:18:08 `` for n in `seq 10 12`; do u="$(perl -e "print '_' x $n")"; echo -n "$n: "; \? phantom${u}hoover; done 23:18:10 10: OK you got me there. \ 11: phantom___________hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ 12: phantom____________hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:20:37 So now I have the characters from ASCII and Latin-1 23:21:03 I think I'll take a break, then add Greek and Katakana 23:21:19 Oh, and all the DF characters 23:23:55 yeah gotta get cp-437 as soon as possible 23:24:25 oren: you have those characters in what? 23:24:30 oren: are you making a font? 23:24:31 my font 23:24:33 great! 23:24:35 Yeah 23:24:49 hold on I'll screenshot 23:24:55 I already have all of cp-437 and iso-8859-1 in my font, those were in my original goal 23:26:42 I also have all of iso-8859-2, cp-1252 (new version), cp-1250 (new version), and I think I also might have all of iso-8859-4, iso-8859-15, iso-8859-16 (which is actually covered by a union of the previous ones) but I'm not quite sure 23:27:20 I even have glyphs for all the control characters in iso-8859-1, though those don't display in terminal windows :-) 23:27:35 however, I only have a few of greek, and no Katakana 23:27:55 and the greek is very ugly, I added it only to see maths formulas a bit 23:29:01 http://www.orenwatson.be/screen1.png 23:29:22 when you do greek, make sure to be able to spell διάῤῥοια properly twh 23:30:22 seems I have all of latin-1 but not all of Windows-1252 23:30:23 wow, that looks nice. can you also show a screenshot with some longer text in a natural language? 23:30:50 yeah hold on I'll screenshot this 23:31:40 is that all printable cp-1252 characters shown? 23:31:56 http://www.orenwatson.be/screen3.png 23:32:03 this font looks nice 23:32:06 yeah but I'm apparently missing a lot 23:32:23 nice and of distinguishable characters 23:33:27 7 has a stroke and 1 has a tick, the way I write them 23:34:08 I should put up a sane screenshot of my font and link it 23:34:15 currently all I have is http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-cp437.png 23:35:04 (and http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/stickfont-screenshot0.png of a different old font, one that's for crazy decorative headings rather than for body text) 23:35:08 I made a compromise by shrinking the capitals to make room for their accents 23:35:33 blackboard bold, nice 23:37:54 -!- tromp has joined. 23:38:05 ok, so what should I put in the screenshot(s)? I'll certainly put http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/versw , then maybe http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/verst and its English original so there's English text too. But I also need some way to list many characters, such as all cp437 or all cp1250 etc. What encodings? Should I show literally all glyphs in unicode order? 23:38:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:38:37 Hellu 23:38:56 And I might want to show some program code too. What's a good example of C code I can show? 23:39:15 I have developed a spontaneous interest in quantum computing 23:39:23 hppavilion[1]: oh dear 23:39:24 And will now proceed to talk about it incessantly 23:39:30 :P 23:39:41 After I figure out how the hell quantum physics works 23:39:50 > fix not 23:39:53 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 23:40:05 So 23:40:06 I recommend reading some books on the subject 23:40:21 I have not done so, however, so... 23:40:31 I don't know anything about it 23:40:37 I figured out that this non-esolang I started designing a while back would be particularly useful in QC 23:40:57 Because you can, effectively, _define_ kewords 23:40:59 Sort of like in haskell 23:41:01 oren: I don't think I like the "ð" in your font 23:41:23 So one could make an easy operation for quantum logic gates 23:41:26 though I'm not saying I know how to improve it 23:41:35 Oooh 23:41:38 Is someone making a font? 23:42:00 oren: this one looks more like a reversed delta to me 23:42:18 hppavilion[1]: i predict that your talk will not be able to stay coherent hth 23:42:24 hppavilion[1]: oren is, http://www.orenwatson.be/screen3.png http://www.orenwatson.be/screen1.png 23:42:41 hehe, that's a HORRIBLE pun 23:43:57 * oerjan bows 23:44:57 oren: is "—" from your font or substituted? it looks too similar to "-" 23:45:43 Maybe I should shorten my hyphen-minus 23:46:30 yeah then it wouldn't look the same as my em-dash 23:47:13 I consider "-" the most important (mostly because it occurs a lot in program code), so I don't make compromises about it. I have a bulge under "–" and two bulges under "—". "‐" is short but two pixels thick. 23:48:40 I also have distinguishable glyphs for "‒" and "−" and "­" 23:49:09 I for one think "-" should be long, but it's your choice of course. 23:49:41 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:50:11 hmm bumps would work 23:50:25 or maybe I'll just change the height slightly 23:50:46 also, I find your "¼½¾" hard to read. what if you made the slash thinner or removed it entirely to allow for the digits to be bigger? 23:51:14 I think I also have a glyphs that's a hyphen with a dot over or under it, but I don't recall which character it was. Let me check. 23:52:11 @let type S = (Num n) => State n 23:52:12 .L.hs:156:21: 23:52:12 Expecting one more argument to ‘State n’ 23:52:12 Expected a type, but ‘State n’ has kind ‘* -> *’ 23:52:30 hmph 23:52:45 oh it wasn't the library type 23:52:56 @let type S = (Num n) => [n] 23:52:56 .L.hs:156:10: Warning: 23:52:57 Variable ‘n’ is implicitly quantified due to a context 23:52:57 Use explicit forall syntax instead. 23:53:08 ok it's just a warning 23:53:21 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:53:25 hmm no, I don't have just a glyph. maybe I had one in a previous version. 23:55:25 I guess I could show all characters in my font in rows of 16 unicode characters, with the code before each row. that would identify each character (except possibly missing characters, which I'll have to mark somehow, maybe with a blue middle dot or something). 23:58:05 Oh well, I'll figure this screenshot thing out later. Good night for now. 23:58:47 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:58:48 And good luck with your font, oren.