00:11:31 Ox0dea: printing them out doesn't compress newlines very well at all hth 00:11:44 that guy looks immensely scandinavian 00:17:38 Phellontom_Hoover. what makes you say that? 00:21:04 maybe his bag of bones hands? 00:22:23 shachaf: You're right, but A4 paper can fit 842 lines at 1pt. 00:22:46 My largest Whitespace program only contains 211 lines. 00:23:19 hey, is there some way to download the entire wiki? 00:23:49 mauris__: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Exporting_all_the_files_of_a_wiki 00:24:55 also his baggy eyes 00:26:08 although baggy eyes are also common among slavs 00:26:08 fizzie, whence the 'u' in 'mjukvaruproblem'? 00:27:58 -!- mauris__ has changed nick to mauris. 00:28:04 -!- mauris has quit (Changing host). 00:28:04 -!- mauris has joined. 00:30:07 helooodl. you're Swedish? 00:30:57 in general though that dude is pale and thin and looks like he's never had a tan. so he has to be from somewhere up north... 00:32:10 oerjan: as an Up North person, do you corroborate oren's assertion? 00:33:01 fizzie: I'd ask you, but I fear you're an Even More Up North Like Really North You Wouldn't Believe How Far North person. 00:35:01 boily: jag har b?rjat l?ra mig lite svenska, men inte v?ldigt allvarligt. 00:36:15 it's a pretty language! i like the rhythm. i have absolutely no connection to sweden 00:36:15 you ain't Swedish! your question marks lack umlauts! 00:39:05 AIUI, oerjan was north of me even back when I was living in Finland. 00:39:18 ais523: i guess to make a really good Huffman dictionary, you need a large corpus of which commands are most common 00:39:53 mauris: yes 00:40:00 mauris: That doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd need a heuristic for, though. 00:40:02 but even a reasonably bad Huffman dictionary is still often decent 00:40:09 or you can use some sort of adaptive huffman 00:42:29 haha, I love the edit summary on http://esolangs.org/wiki/International_Esolang_Design_Competition 00:42:35 can we keep this page around just for the history 00:42:53 i originally wanted to do something like this for gs2. currently all commands are a byte, but i was planning on like, having some of them be 5 bits, some 10, etc 00:43:12 however i didn't feel comfortable just making up numbers for the frequencies :( 00:43:24 plus huffman codes don't look very easily extendable? 00:48:35 mauris: I don't speak Swedish all that much/well. But I think the special noun forms (including last-vowel elision/mutation) used as "modifiers" are probably remnants from something or other. At any rate, it happens. vara -> varuhus, hälsa -> hälsofarlighet. 00:48:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:49:33 fizzie, whence the 'u' in 'mjukvaruproblem'? <-- swedish seems to do that when forming compounds with -a nouns (originally weak feminine ones), i think it's from the old norse genitive, see e.g. the more well-preserved icelandic declension https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vara#Noun_5 00:51:34 oerjan: as an Up North person, do you corroborate oren's assertion? <-- only for geeks i think, everyone else seems to have a tan these days. in my youth i occasionally tried, sometimes with catastrophic results. 00:51:45 oerjan: Sometimes they drop the vowel. ficka -> ficktjuv. 00:52:11 Hmm.. the furthest north place I've been in Canada is RouynNoranda which has the same latitude as, like, Paris. Europe's climate is bullshit 00:55:11 oren: AAAAAAAAAAAH! 00:55:19 what the fungot where you doing in Rouin? 00:55:19 boily: no wonder you're a bored college guy, you know 00:55:28 s/in/yn/ 00:55:37 fungot: I don't go to college anymore. I got bored. 00:55:37 boily: last time i checked lisppaste is at http://www.common-lisp.net/ paste/ results/ fnord this year and i might 00:55:47 * oerjan cannot look at the word "varuhus" without thinking about Karl-Bertil Jonssons julafton 00:56:18 boily: I was wtching fireworks wiht my dad and my uncle? 00:57:05 I don't really remember the reasons we were there 00:57:23 other than my dad grew up there 00:57:23 ("Jag har skänkt lite glädje åt dessa olyckliga som inte äger något varuhus") 00:57:53 oren: good reason. so you're half Québécois? 00:58:07 http://goo.gl/maps/X8BWi is probably about the northest I've been. I don't recall where exactly we went on another Lapland trip. 00:58:14 more like a quarter. 00:58:34 my grandma is from Enlgand 00:59:01 fizzie: i suppose i have no real idea why norwegian sometimes inserts an -s- (old genitive too) and sometimes doesn't. 00:59:13 or an -e- 00:59:41 s/lg/gl/ 01:00:05 a quarterbécois, then. 01:00:09 * oerjan laughs and points at oren from the gulf stream 01:00:10 lol 01:01:27 have you guys ever used lex/yacc? 01:01:31 i've got a quick question 01:01:38 I have 01:02:03 can you halp meh? \o/ 01:02:04 | 01:02:04 >\ 01:02:07 * oerjan has looked at it, but possibly not used... 01:02:12 izabera: I've used it 01:02:16 and know quite a lot about yacc 01:02:17 \o/ 01:02:18 | 01:02:18 /`\ 01:02:30 ah yes ais523 is writing a replacement 01:02:45 hmm myndzi has a bigger dick in my font 01:02:55 ... 01:03:06 i'd rather not receive dicks from myndzi anymore -_- 01:03:16 ok i need help to parse something like this 01:03:21 "this is a string" 01:03:35 izabera: with escape syntax and all that? 01:03:37 "inside strings we can embed brackets( )" 01:03:41 wait 01:03:56 (do you call those parentheses or brackets?) 01:04:01 oh, I see 01:04:03 (parentheses? ok) 01:04:10 ( and ) are normally called parentheses, to distinguish them from [ and ] 01:04:16 (ok) 01:04:25 although all of ( ) [ ] can probably legitimately be called brackets 01:04:38 you normally see "parenthesis" or "paren" among programmers for disambiguation purposes 01:04:47 (with "square bracket" used for [ and ] if it needs to be unambiguous) 01:04:53 I call () round brackets, [] square brackets, {} curly brackets 01:04:56 ok ok 01:05:04 "the part inside these (parentheses) is a different quoting context" 01:05:20 so i can have something like this: "foo ( "bar baz" ) bat" 01:05:45 and inside parenteses you can have other nested parentheses 01:05:52 so you have to match "foo( )bar( )baz" 01:05:53 i hope you understand 01:06:06 so start by mtahing "foo" 01:06:15 then match "bar( 01:06:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DRAFT CHICKEN). 01:06:25 and )baz" 01:06:34 and )xyzzy( 01:06:40 each as separate tokens 01:06:44 it's kinda hard, i'm a beginner 01:07:03 ah it looks like $( ) in shell script 01:07:19 not sure if you know what i mean 01:07:58 so parse "foo( )baz" as a STRING_ENDING_IN_ROUND_BRACKET followed by a STRING_STARTING_WITH_ROUND_BRACKET 01:08:20 WHY_ARE_WE_SCREAMING 01:08:31 oh, I actually like oren's solution 01:08:31 <.< 01:08:47 also because terminals in yacc are uppercase by convention 01:08:49 TOKEN_NAMES_ARE_IN_SNAKE_CPAS_BY_CONVENTION 01:09:54 ok lemme try and i'll report back my progresses 01:09:57 thank you for the hint 01:19:47 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:20:33 izabera: Are you trying to use regular expressions to parse a recursive grammar? 01:21:17 i'm trying to parse a recursive grammar, yes 01:21:58 i know the limitations of regex 01:22:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:24:28 that's why the "foo( "bar" )baz" each have to be separate tokens 01:27:45 Ox0dea: we're trying to parse a recursive grammar using tools that are intended to parse recursive grammars 01:28:01 the problem is that it's one that doesn't have a simple lexing/parsing divide 01:29:28 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:30:09 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:33:11 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:39:23 -!- dorei has quit. 01:40:09 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:40:31 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:49:01 oerjan, wow i see you found my SO question 01:49:43 http://stackoverflow.com/q/32106435 ? 01:49:48 that was SO difficult 01:50:21 that's the one 01:51:02 i should go hack at that some more. maybe i can bring out the -XTypeSynonymInstances or something terrifying like that 01:53:19 wowowow, -XNewtypeDeriving?? 01:56:56 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:00:03 you mean GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving 02:00:38 yes, this is even more magic 02:01:07 so now i just try to list every typeclass that exists on earth in this `deriving (...)`?? 02:01:18 heh 02:02:17 -!- mauris_ has joined. 02:02:30 GenerousNewtypeDeriving 02:06:03 shachaf: i think mauris's SO picture beats us both in lifelikeness hth 02:06:06 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:07:39 -!- mauris_ has changed nick to mauris. 02:07:47 -!- mauris has quit (Changing host). 02:07:47 -!- mauris has joined. 02:07:48 -!- izabera has changed nick to Mode. 02:07:56 Ok I changed my cgi script to ouput a mtime so that things will be cached 02:08:00 -!- Mode has changed nick to izabera. 02:08:53 deriving (Bounded, Enum, Eq, Foldable, Fractional, Functor, Integral, Monoid, Num, Ord, Read, Real, RealFrac, Show, Traversable) 02:10:11 this is silly. i want to derive (*) 02:10:12 don't forget Applicative hth 02:10:40 sadly i need to write that one myself because it has fancy constraints 02:11:00 shachaf: mauris thinks Monoid is fancy 02:11:32 are options for "deriving" pluggable? or do they have to be built into the compiler? 02:11:47 mauris: monoids are so easy hth 02:11:58 ais523: they're pluggable with the new DeriveAnyClass extension 02:12:04 ...Sort of. 02:12:12 You're pretty limited in the instances you can derive with that. 02:12:38 `? monoids 02:12:40 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 02:12:46 so easy 02:12:47 `? monoid 02:12:48 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 02:12:51 shachaf, what is hard 02:13:48 math. let's go shopping. 02:14:07 * oerjan thinks shopping is harder 02:14:14 shopping is pretty hard 02:14:17 but so is math 02:14:22 Shopping is hard. Let's go mathing. 02:15:29 niiiice 02:15:30 edwardk: do you have anything equivalent to newtype Const3 a b c = Const3 { getConst3 :: a } , twh 02:15:38 Const3 is reducing basically every instance to monoids 02:15:40 it is so easy 02:15:54 (such as Category!!) 02:16:09 oh Category too? 02:16:16 make sense i guess 02:16:21 instance Monoid m => Category (Const3 m) where 02:16:22 id = Const3 mempty 02:16:22 Const3 x . Const3 y = Const3 (mappend x y) 02:16:22 *makes 02:16:52 what is hard though: checking applicative laws 02:16:54 That's not the "category with one object" thing, though. 02:18:04 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 02:18:06 hmmm, i guess it isn't 02:18:07 shachaf: well it's equivalent to it, maybe 02:18:19 if you take the skeleton 02:18:20 oerjan: well, it has a whole bunch of different objects 02:18:20 -!- staffehn has joined. 02:18:44 oh, equivalent in that sense 02:19:13 sounds plausible 02:19:21 what are the arrows between two different objects? 02:19:23 oerjan: Taking skeletons is illegal in many jurisdictions. 02:19:32 mauris: you have Applicative and Category, so you should have Arrow hth 02:20:41 yes i'm looking for more (k -> k -> *) -> Constraint thingies, arrow sounds easy 02:21:06 oh hm i'm wondering... 02:21:29 :k Kleisli (Writer Int) 02:21:31 * -> * -> * 02:22:17 hm wait no 02:22:20 that's silly 02:26:29 hm my search seems to have hit one of zzo38's haskell packages 02:26:45 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 02:26:57 it's too late to back out now 02:27:00 -!- staffehn has joined. 02:27:42 oerjan: nice, which 02:27:49 no it isn't, also it doesn't seem relevant. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monoidplus-0.1.0.1/docs/Data-Monoid-Plus.html 02:28:54 -!- Ox0dea has left ("WeeChat 1.2"). 02:43:54 Profunctor is one thing 02:49:03 also Bifunctor, then 02:49:33 they're phantom parameters, so they're both co- and contravariant all ways 03:12:24 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:01:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:01:53 hmm, if something is both covariant and contravariant 04:01:57 doesn't that imply it isn't used at all? 04:02:02 (sort of the opposite of being invariant) 04:06:24 Yes. 04:09:16 -!- Froox has joined. 04:12:41 How can you make ANSI music with xterm? 04:12:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:31:44 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:34:25 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:34:50 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:50:29 -!- vodkode has joined. 05:30:45 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:31:17 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 05:31:17 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:58:14 I just bought a laptap based primarily on it being the only one I could find over 2Kg 06:02:42 * Sgeo_ built an ALU :) (not IRL. Using a hardware description language) 06:02:54 Also it conforms to specs someone else made 06:02:54 Sgeo_: Niiice! 06:04:55 2.7 kilograms of laptop. because fuck you, macbook-air-using weaklings 06:05:58 Just noticed a typo. Tests did not catch it. 06:21:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:22:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:31:34 which operations does you alu support? 06:34:02 & and +, with some modifiers on input and output that allow for -, |, and some other stuff 06:35:09 So, it's &, +, with options to zero out the inputs, bitwise negate the inputs and bitwise negate the output. 06:35:37 my bf interpreter returns 0 on EOF, what's wrong with this line? +[>,----------]+[<++++++++++.] 06:35:43 i want to read a line and reverse it 06:36:33 izabera: you're running off the end of the tape going leftwards 06:36:43 oren, http://nand2tetris-questions-and-answers-forum.32033.n3.nabble.com/file/n95834/alu_worksheet.pdf 06:36:54 !bf >,[>,]<[.<]!reverse 06:36:54 No output. 06:36:55 ais523: aaah dammit, i see 06:36:57 err 06:36:59 ^bf >,[>,]<[.<]!reverse 06:37:00 esrever 06:37:08 yes but that doesn't stop on \n <.< 06:37:21 I know, but the important thing is to look at where the < signs are 06:37:27 and the > signs 06:37:38 you need the > at the start to give you an extra 0 at the leftmost end to stop on 06:37:42 fixed it ----------[>,----------]+[<++++++++++.] 06:37:44 and you need the < at the end of the loop 06:38:06 otherwise you're outputting a NUL just before the program ends 06:38:09 which looks a bit messy 06:38:13 oh shit 06:38:17 you're right 06:38:22 http://nand2tetris-questions-and-answers-forum.32033.n3.nabble.com/Is-the-method-used-to-make-the-Hack-ALU-an-exception-or-the-rule-td4026896.html 06:39:18 thanks ais523 :D 06:39:36 Sgeo_: that's quite some URL 06:39:54 hmm, that seems to be a good approach iirc that's how the 6502 ALU works (with the ALU control bits coming from some logic on the opcode) 06:40:58 http://www.5z8.info/how-to-build-a-bomb_a2k7om_myspace-of-sex hth 06:41:04 It does mean that there's redundant functions, e.g. two ways to get x out (x&-1 and x+0) 06:42:03 shachaf: do you have that URL just saved up as an example of an amusing URL? 06:42:10 (unsurprisingly I am not following it) 06:42:19 No, I got it from http://www.shadyurl.com/ 06:42:20 Sgeo_: I doubt that can be helped, really 06:42:29 It's a short link version of Sgeo_'s URL. 06:42:36 shachaf: ah right, you have an amusing URL generator memorized instead 06:42:49 Sgeo_'s is more informative, though, I think 06:42:52 I have the existence of one memorized. 06:43:17 @google amusing url generator 06:43:18 http://www.shadyurl.com/ 06:43:18 -!- Flonk has joined. 06:43:18 Title: ShadyURL - Don't just shorten your URL, make it suspicious and frightening. 06:43:36 cool. I should do all my bookmarks with that 06:43:59 in this case, the URL is indeed shorter 06:45:20 http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00WBXG6ZM 06:46:13 did you mean http://www.5z8.info/-php-deactivate_phishing_filter-48-_b9d7ac_nazi 06:46:52 yeah 06:47:11 the previous shady URL was better 06:47:18 that one just doesn't make any sense 06:47:18 anyway do you like the look of that laptop? 06:47:27 (also, is the bit before and after the hex string actually relevant?) 06:47:41 it seems to me that such a site would be better if the hex string wasn't part of it 06:48:06 the look of the laptop is the same as any thinkpad... 06:49:19 ais523: That reminds me of when I was wondering what the best way to convert some data (say, a private key, maybe a few thousand bits?) to a form which can be memorized relatively easily. 06:49:30 it isn't the same as this flimsy thing: 06:49:32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#/media/File:Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Ultrabook.jpg 06:49:43 Or even just a secret key, 128 or 256 bits, would be a good start. 06:50:33 shachaf: well, the people who have memorization world records start by having a code for the individual things you're encoding (say nybbles in this case), mapping them onto reasonably general concepts that are distinct and memorizing that mapping 06:51:28 and then they form a story which uses the concepts in the sequence that they're trying to memorize, preferably an amusing one because that's more memorable 06:51:56 that's the just a basic method of loci... 06:52:01 s/the// 06:52:17 izabera: I'm not claiming that this is some big secret or whatever 06:52:35 i used to be decent at this a few years ago... 06:53:01 I'd rather transform the data into a form which is easy for people to remember than transform people into a form which is well-suited for memorizing data. 06:53:04 in 2009 i had a national record for multiple blindfolded rubiks cube solving 06:53:56 oh look my memory is so good that i had to check and it was 2010 06:54:12 (that doesn't count) 06:55:10 I, um, was top 8 in the UK at the Pokémon video game championships in 2011? that's some sort of achievement 06:55:29 impressive :P 06:56:02 I think doing multiple rubik's cubes blindfolded is more impressive 06:56:19 there's a bunch of memorization and strategy in both, but in Pokémon, what you have to memorize doesn't change much from game to game 06:56:32 (other than things you've observed the opponent do earlier in the game, and I often forget that…) 06:57:44 it was only 5 cubes and it took me 43 *minutes* 06:57:54 by today's standards it's crap 07:03:25 but at least they ended up in the right arrangement? 07:03:34 I doubt I'd be able to keep track of just the one cube while blindfolded 07:04:00 oh it's not that hard, can you solve it? 07:04:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:04:35 sort-of 07:04:38 ok 07:04:41 there are a couple of situations that I keep forgetting the solutions to 07:04:47 (one of which is fairly common) 07:04:48 do you know the t perm? 07:04:55 but I used to be able to solve it pretty reliably 07:05:08 I don't know what "t perm" stands for / refers to, it's possible I know the concept but not by that name 07:05:29 it's just a permutation that swaps two edges and two corners 07:06:02 oh, in that case I remember seeing it but don't use it 07:06:06 ok 07:06:17 you know the notation? 07:06:28 RLFBUD? 07:06:31 I've seen multiple notations but they all use much the same language 07:06:37 RLFBUD is one I know, yes 07:06:41 ok great 07:06:56 the t perm swaps the RU and LU edges, and the RFU and RBU corners 07:07:15 you can use that to solve the whole cube 07:07:45 oh, and that's why it took 43 minutes :-) 07:07:49 lol 07:07:54 no solving is relatively fast 07:07:57 memorization is slow 07:08:40 e.g.: let's solve an edge 3-cycle 07:08:56 BL -> DR -> FU -> BL 07:09:06 just random edges, doesn't matter 07:09:09 do you do edges first, corners first, or a bit of both? 07:09:24 edges first, eventual parity, corners 07:09:49 oh rigt 07:10:20 my "current" (as in last time I solved it) approach to parity is "try to solve most of the cube, if the parity is wrong do a sequence to fix it", but that's slow 07:10:36 :) 07:11:05 anyway, to solve that cycle: move BL to UL without messing with UR, URF or URB (this is called a setup move), then tperm, then invert the setup move 07:11:18 then setup DR to UL, tperm, anti-setup 07:11:27 then setup FU to UL, tperm, anti-setup 07:11:28 right, I use setup moves for top corners 07:11:31 etc... 07:11:35 but then my technique is from an old guide 07:11:43 which does top edges, top corners, middle edges, bottom corners, bottom edges 07:11:58 that's not a good method for blindfolded solving 07:12:11 indeed 07:12:13 What's parity? 07:12:17 it's not a good method for any other purpose eitehr 07:12:18 Something like two edges being flipped? 07:12:24 other than feeling like you're making progress 07:12:42 no, it's when you have both an odd permutation in edges and corners 07:12:42 shachaf: well flipping two edges has patterns that fix it, but it's quite long 07:12:53 i mean, both edges and corners have an odd permutation 07:13:17 I think I solved it top corners, top edges, middle edges, bottom corners, bottom edges. 07:13:35 yes but you need to keep track of the state of the cube 07:13:39 Yep. 07:13:46 Not good for blindfolded solving. 07:13:56 blindfolded methods do this by solving one or two pieces at a time and leaving the rest as it is 07:14:11 Right. 07:14:37 To some degree you could use the bottom edge/corner methods for the top edges and corners. 07:14:44 It's just extra work. 07:15:08 well i think most people use the fridrich method... 07:15:25 basically the first two layers are built intuitively, then oll and pll with fast algorithms 07:15:53 oll and pll? 07:15:58 oh sorry 07:16:02 orientation of last layer 07:16:05 permutation of last layer 07:16:18 Ah. 07:16:43 aka "complete the yellow face" and "complete the yellow layer" 07:17:01 It's been probably more than ten years since I last thought about this. 07:17:13 time to start again :) 07:17:52 I remember that I liked how you could use the same method that you use for rotating/flipping top corners/edges for the bottom layer, as long as you did it twice, one of them in reverse. 07:18:42 well yes that's fun but a bit slow <.< 07:22:27 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:32:14 -!- mauris has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:46:53 Oh, "intuitive" has a technical meaning here. 07:48:12 all f2l "algorithms" can be derived easily with a little practice 07:59:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:22:53 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:31:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:31:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:44:02 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:49:30 i derived mine using GAP (http://www.gap-system.org/) ._. 08:50:00 now i can't remember them or find the code 09:00:30 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:04:47 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:07:31 -!- atslash has joined. 09:10:20 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:23:08 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:53:45 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Undergroundmonorail * New user account 10:03:34 that probably isn't a spambot 10:03:45 more of an esoteric transport system 10:07:45 -!- lleu has joined. 10:22:30 -!- boily has joined. 10:27:09 i assume all of you have seen ex machina 10:27:16 suppose you become a billionaire for some reason 10:27:26 and buy this really large house with a huge garden 10:27:39 well that's not even close to ex machina but that's the idea 10:28:00 how do i stop phone companies to provide cell phone coverage on that area? 10:28:32 izabera: well whether you get coverage depends mostly on whether you have line of sight to a cellphone mast 10:28:41 (range also matters but not nearly as much) 10:29:19 so I guess you'd need to figure out which cellphone masts are visible, then find new locations for them that cover the same areas except not your garden 10:29:31 oh 10:29:34 wow 10:29:43 that's easier than i thought 10:29:46 and then somehow convince the people who own the land where the new locations would be to let you build cellphone masts there 10:29:51 izabera: afair it was in the mountains, and the property was huge (wasm"we've been flying over his property for a few hours now"?) 10:30:07 s/wasm/wasn't there a line like... / 10:30:09 alternatively you could build a big metal wall around your garden to block the signals 10:30:15 yeah the helycopter guy said something like that 10:30:34 a big metal wall would ruin the view 10:31:25 well it depends on whether the view you care about is the entire surrounding countryside, or just your garden 10:31:36 if the garden is big enough you wouldn't even really be able to see the wall 10:31:59 that'd mean to live in a prison -_- 10:32:11 a large prison is still a prison 10:32:33 well, are you keeping yourself in, or the world out 10:32:41 it'd probably be you who had the keys to any gates in it 10:32:42 wait, i got it. i could build a wall around everything else 10:33:12 i'd laugh about people being caged 10:34:06 isn't that equivalent? 10:34:18 the wall's in the same place either way :-) 10:34:43 Mmm. Reminds me of Aeon Flux 10:34:46 of course it is physically equivalent but my version is much more satisfying 10:35:01 (not people being caged, I'm still on the "big garden" thread) 10:40:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:40:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:45:45 -!- vodkode has left ("Leaving"). 10:50:17 How about satellite phone coverage? 10:50:49 you'd need to block LOS to the satellite, or disable the satellite somehow 10:52:06 Completely unrelated, but might be of interest to some: someone told me the SIGGRAPH 2015 proceedings are available for downloading (without any ACM subscription) for a limited time ("maybe a week") at http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2809654&_sm_au_=iVV25TfRTPr0jbK6 10:54:15 neat 10:54:38 there's such a weird scale of journal publishers 10:55:03 all the way from "outright evil" to "aware they probably shouldn't be that evil but it's a habit right now" to "gives the impression of genuinely trying to do the right thing, just sucks at it" 10:57:39 on a scale from one to Elsevier, where would you put the ACM? 11:00:34 A paper I was involved was just published under SpringerOpen. I don't know where that fits, because it's all open-access, but it's still a part of the Springer conglomerate. 11:00:57 boily: probably somewhere in the middle 11:01:30 (also, I like the way that we both instinctively identified Elsevier as the most evil end of the scale, even if I didn' t say it) 11:01:34 They've got an "open access waiver fund" that covers the open access fees for authors in countries "classified by the World Bank as Low-income economies or Lower-middle-income economies as of September 2014, and which have a 2013 gross domestic product of less than 200 billion US dollars". I guess it's a good thing, but it's still a bit arbitrary. 11:02:24 fizzie: AFAICT the "typical" way for large conglomerates to do open-access is to work out how much people in total are willing to pay to make any given paper open access 11:02:30 then charge that, regardless of the actual cost 11:02:45 I've heard rumours that it's in the thousands of dollars range 11:03:02 It was something with four digits for an IEEE journal. 11:03:07 I didn't pay it. 11:03:18 (ACM actually called some other journals out for doing this and then charging for the open-access stuff as part of a subscription bundle anyway) 11:04:53 I kind of like that SpringerOpen just wants you to apply a CC-Attribution license to your paper instead of signing some custom dozen-page legal thing that does whatever. 11:05:32 well, isn't creative commons' entire purpose to come up with correctly legally worded licenses for some specific common special licensing cases? 11:05:52 not taking advantage of that is basically arrogance, you're claiming that you have better lawyers than creative commons 11:06:39 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 11:06:41 Apparently the SpringerOpen journal "my" paper is in charges $1105 (or EUR 900, or £705) per article. 11:07:27 OK, that's less than I thought but nonetheless ridiculously high 11:07:43 the cost of editing and reformatting is nonzero but not that large 11:08:03 the cost of proofreading and peer review is effectively zero because they make academics do it for no pay 11:08:36 (I remember there was a movement a while back to boycott publishing in the shadier-business-practice journals; IMO that doesn't make sense, the correct thing to do is to boycott peer review for them as they're basically profiting off your unpaid work) 11:09:41 there's always Arxiv... 11:10:53 arxiv is a good solution to some of these problems 11:11:11 (it's only allowed the pre-peer-review versions of the papers, though, which normally contain errors because they haven't been peer reviewed yet) 11:12:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:12:49 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:14:57 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Client Quit). 11:18:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GUIDED CHICKEN). 11:34:22 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 11:36:11 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Client Quit). 11:49:59 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:50:31 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 11:54:14 -!- dtscode has joined. 11:59:55 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:01:11 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:01:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:22:51 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:25:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:26:03 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:26:29 -!- atslash has joined. 12:34:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:37:28 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:37:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:40:17 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:50:04 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:52:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:53:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:57:20 -!- TodPunk has joined. 13:00:45 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:01:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:07:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:07:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:22:15 if arxiv added a comment and rating system, limited to academics, then would we need peer review? 13:28:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:28:33 oren: you'd still need to encourage people to review, I think 13:28:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:28:46 also that would sort-of miss the reality of how conferences work (but maybe not journals) 13:35:08 -!- aretecode has joined. 13:37:14 `olist 999 13:37:20 olist 999: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 13:39:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:40:35 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:42:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:43:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:48:53 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:56:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: meeting). 14:05:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:25:30 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:29:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: making another attempt at that meeting). 14:31:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:35:20 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 14:41:48 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:57:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: going home). 15:36:42 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 15:40:40 ooh, 999 15:54:43 very millennial plot 15:55:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:56:03 fnûrd. 15:57:32 Fnørd. 15:58:05 ƒท๑я∂ 16:42:05 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:42:05 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 16:42:05 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:43:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:52:27 -!- a21 has joined. 16:54:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:58:37 -!- a21 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:10:53 -!- stalem has joined. 17:12:15 -!- a21 has joined. 17:15:40 -!- a21 has quit (Client Quit). 17:23:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:24:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:31:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:32:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:37:27 -!- Wright has joined. 17:44:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:47:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:51:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:51:49 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:53:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:01:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:03:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:05:12 -!- dtscode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:16:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:17:07 -!- TieSoul has joined. 18:19:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:44:50 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:22:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:25:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:27:47 -!- glowcoil has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:28:49 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:30:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:35:42 -!- glowcoil has joined. 19:44:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:45:56 -!- heroux has joined. 19:50:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:53:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:15:48 -!- Loraenil has joined. 20:17:05 -!- Loraenil has quit (Client Quit). 20:32:29 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:46:25 @tell boily ah, the mother modem, that is swedish and hilariously wrong 20:46:26 Consider it noted. 21:05:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:08:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:11:07 [wiki] [[User:Undergroundmonorail]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43832 * Undergroundmonorail * (+127) Created page with "I'm undergroundmonorail and I'm deeply disturbed by the fact that I can't get rid of the uppercase U in the title of this page." 21:11:38 lol 21:12:05 [wiki] [[User:Undergroundmonorail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43833&oldid=43832 * Undergroundmonorail * (+7) clarity 21:13:28 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 21:17:10 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:23:04 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:23:13 -!- aretecode has joined. 21:30:26 olsner: Apparently it's a kind of a Thing in Swedish computery forums. 21:32:36 -!- stalem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:38:43 -!- gde33|2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:41:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:41:59 -!- gde33 has joined. 21:43:41 -!- Wright has joined. 21:49:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:52:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:56:04 [wiki] [[User:Undergroundmonorail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43834&oldid=43833 * Oerjan * (+14) EMERGENCY LIFESAVING USERPAGE EDIT 22:57:52 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:21:07 -!- staffehn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:21:41 -!- staffehn has joined. 23:38:32 -!- mauris has joined.