< 1440360854 737711 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, it's in a pre tag....
< 1440360858 271255 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm
< 1440360870 804040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe zwsp is treated specially in a different way?
< 1440360889 154209 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probably. maybe it is zero width
< 1440360903 60118 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though my glyph for it isn't.
< 1440360914 135949 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just removed
< 1440360919 124129 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not rendered
< 1440360926 17562 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah
< 1440360979 321418 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b01:cddb::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BTW, the trac for nethack4 seems to be giving a permission error.
< 1440361005 86824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's on a separate server, which is having problems
< 1440361021 188972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was set to 403 out "temporarily" to avoid exacerbating them
< 1440361027 922227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're not quite sure what to do next
< 1440361029 144164 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the CSS property that sets html-style whitespace squashing?
< 1440361181 331855 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :answering own question: property is called white-space
< 1440361206 396025 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3schools.com/cssref/pr_text_white-space.asp
< 1440361213 832188 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1440361264 559886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#white-space-property
< 1440361289 985322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be several webpages, some servers might not use SQLite internally but some might, but I want to access them using SQLite-based client too, so using virtual table module extension you can access them with SQLite instead of web-browser. How to do that?
< 1440361667 245793 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think next I'll try to put in as many of the math operators as I can draw
< 1440361693 833999 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be able to bump me past 2200
< 1440361910 517768 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1440361966 255801 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't have replacement character (\xfffd) for some reasons
< 1440361966 617070 :villasukka!villasukka@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1440361967 936349 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1440361971 23929 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I had that in the font
< 1440362004 571704 :villasukka!villasukka@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1440362004 985243 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1440362010 735611 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean \x{fffd}
< 1440362329 76572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: the hex code ranges of characters I have in my font are: {00:109, 10c:11f, 122:125, 128:131, 134:13e, 141:148, 14a:17f, 192, 218:21b, 232:233, 250:252, 254, 258:25c, 25e:25f, 261, 263, 265, 268:26a, 26f:270, 272:273, 275:276, 278:279, 27e, 282:283, 289:28a, 28c:28d, 28f:290, 292, 294:295, 29d, 2c6:2c8, 2cc, 2d0, 2d8:2d9, 2db:2dd, 391:3a1, 3a3:3a9, 3b1:3c9, 1e80:1e85, 1ef2:1ef3, 
< 1440362336 928025 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000:200d, 2010:2016, 2018:2022, 2024:2026, 202f:2030, 2032:2037, 2039:203a, 203c:203d, 204e, 207f, 20a7, 20ac, 211f, 2122, 2190:2195, 21a8, 21d0, 21d2, 21d4, 2200, 2202:2204, 2206:2209, 220b:220c, 220f, 2211:221a, 221e, 2223:222b, 2234:2236, 223c, 2248, 2260:2261, 2264:2267, 2282:2283, 2286:2287, 2295:2299, 22a0, 22a2:22a5, 22bb:22bd, 22c2:22c5, 22ee:22f1, 2300, 2302, 2308:230b, 2310, 2320:2321, 23b8:23bd, 2500, 2502, 250c, 2510, 2514, 2518, 251c, 2524,
< 1440362358 660147 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want, compare that to yours, or maybe give a full list of character codes you have so I can compare
< 1440362379 189160 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wait, was that too long for a line?)
< 1440362392 723643 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :{00:109, 10c:11f, 122:125, 128:131, 134:13e, 141:148, 14a:17f, 192, 218:21b, 232:233, 250:252, 254, 258:25c, 25e:25f, 261, 263, 265, 268:26a, 26f:270, 272:273, 275:276, 278:279, 27e, 282:283, 289:28a, 28c:28d, 28f:290, 292, 294:295, 29d, 2c6:2c8, 2cc, 2d0, 2d8:2d9, 2db:2dd, 391:3a1, 3a3:3a9, 3b1:3c9, 1e80:1e85, 1ef2:1ef3, 
< 1440362407 995717 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000:200d, 2010:2016, 2018:2022, 2024:2026, 202f:2030, 2032:2037, 2039:203a, 203c:203d, 204e, 207f, 20a7, 20ac, 211f, 2122, 2190:2195, 21a8, 21d0, 21d2, 21d4, 2200, 2202:2204, 2206:2209, 220b:220c, 220f, 2211:221a, 221e, 2223:222b, 2234:2236, 223c, 2248, 2260:2261, 2264:2267, 2282:2283, 2286:2287, 2295:2299, 22a0, 22a2:22a5, 22bb:22bd, 22c2:22c5, 22ee:22f1, 
< 1440362413 843718 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2300, 2302, 2308:230b, 2310, 2320:2321, 23b8:23bd, 2500, 2502, 250c, 2510, 2514, 2518, 251c, 2524, 252c, 2534, 253c, 2550:256c, 2580, 2584, 2588, 258c, 2590:2593, 25a0, 25ac, 25b2, 25ba, 25bc, 25c4, 25c6, 25cb, 25d8:25d9, 263a:263c, 2640, 2642, 2660, 2663, 2665:2666, 266a:266b, 27e6:27e9}
< 1440362447 909494 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know wat program I can use to find out?
< 1440362457 920731 :carado!~carado@2001:41d0:d:9ef::1:62 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1440362467 6595 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: dunno, in what formats do you have your font or how do you create it?
< 1440362473 970199 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have ttf
< 1440362474 486120 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did my connection drop
< 1440362474 543371 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it only ttf?
< 1440362479 715205 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1440362485 480030 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I dunno, sorry
< 1440362489 990674 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: how is the settlers
< 1440362497 135532 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fontstruct.com/
< 1440362570 703917 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: can't play yet, because it's missing Flash 32bit for Chrome. but it was mainly to answer the question "can I launch steam play stuff on Linux".
< 1440362587 629602 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the answer is yes I can, so I can buy that hero siege thing, and play too!
< 1440362618 61502 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: well, don't bother. it's super beta and the server is down. i've been fighting it all morning
< 1440362632 514916 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but... there's a promotion and... :/
< 1440362641 457063 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, won't buy it.
< 1440362651 729245 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fine, buy it, but don't expect to be able to multiplayer today
< 1440362665 157429 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the promotion is taxing their servers
< 1440362681 851528 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: are the characters listed in the examples page all in the font?
< 1440362711 838447 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still up for some BL2, but I need to go get a walk in before it starts raining again
< 1440362718 355628 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe in like an hour
< 1440362720 149971 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1440362728 901911 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fc-query gives me
< 1440362744 320094 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: wait, in the demo page, why do you have a semicolon char in the place of the greek question mark char (;) ?
< 1440362759 924194 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is what it looks like
< 1440362769 663093 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no trouble. I was asleep up until 15 minutes ago, and still in an not quite optimal brain phase.
< 1440362770 410003 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia anyway
< 1440362771 375657 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: yes, but the html actually has a semicolon
< 1440362777 511141 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1440362780 367574 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :really
< 1440362796 827555 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I have the sometimes annoying tendency to see the bytes, not the content
< 1440362813 63964 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they should look similar
< 1440362817 615667 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(possibly identical)
< 1440362822 820414 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yeah i'm having the same problem. i arrived here 3 minutes after you pinged out earlier. (if i'd not accidentally hit the "restart now" button, I would have been here 3 minutes sooner)
< 1440362856 249224 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be fixed now
< 1440362864 171361 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: also, you have \x{3a2} in the demo page, which is a non-existant character 
< 1440362891 230926 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. yeah. 
< 1440362900 436872 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm doesn't seem to have changed
< 1440362902 547322 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still semicolon
< 1440362915 93270 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, that part hasn't changed, I didn't cmp)
< 1440363008 539990 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm I'll try using a different editor to add it. It's possible that nano fucks it up
< 1440363046 421376 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it's 0x37e
< 1440363082 172668 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe browsers reduce everything to a base form?
< 1440363104 951258 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: possible, let me curl it
< 1440363140 547779 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're right
< 1440363142 706804 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the browser
< 1440363152 491769 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry then
< 1440363301 307341 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ok wait, let me say something positive too. I see you have the Romanian characters ș and similar, which is great (though obviously these used to be missing in old fonts and encodings for historical reasons, there's no reason why you wouldn't have them these days)
< 1440363347 725608 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well mostly I've been trying to cover entire unicode blocks at a time
< 1440363373 279216 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: your Ŵ looks strange, it has no circumflex visible
< 1440363413 463094 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: yes, but exactly for historical reasons, ș isn't in a much used block
< 1440363494 122223 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which w is that?
< 1440363506 327319 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode Ŵ
< 1440363510 752122 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0174 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER W WITH CIRCUMFLEX]
< 1440363513 537655 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1440363522 653562 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a mistake 
< 1440363550 542348 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for pointing that out I would never have noticed
< 1440363560 667878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: do you have 
< 1440363562 483829 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1440363572 379004 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have ­ \x{ad}
< 1440363574 539032 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :soft hyphen
< 1440363588 227152 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you probably have it but it doesn't display in the browser
< 1440363641 881251 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah
< 1440363693 275028 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEITHER APPROXIMATELY NOR ACTUALLY EQUAL TO
< 1440363714 183306 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perfect operator for asshole mathematicians proving someone wrong
< 1440363719 991062 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this font seems nicely drawn, even if some of how it looks isn't to my tastes
< 1440363722 695081 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for sharing
< 1440363731 247190 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still looking at it
< 1440363839 249478 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I said this already, but the ð looks strange
< 1440363872 381418 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give an example picture of how it should look
< 1440363894 424126 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I drew that one from memory or intuition
< 1440363982 56888 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Latin_letter_%C3%90.svg/1280px-Latin_letter_%C3%90.svg.png from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Latin_letter_%C3%90.svg
< 1440363993 56775 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lowercase one (the uppercase is fine)
< 1440364009 137166 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1440364059 978872 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: now as for more letters, is there a reason why you drew ď Ľ ľ with the normal caron, rather than the apostrophe-shaped caron that's often used for those letters?
< 1440364114 648773 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what
< 1440364131 498935 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And same for ť (I forgot there's a fourth)
< 1440364139 260435 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware a caron can look that an apostrohe
< 1440364150 726303 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that/like
< 1440364166 371346 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I think it can look like both in those characters, but the apostrophe is more common
< 1440364185 92922 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a monospaced font like this, you _could_ use the vedge shaped caron, it's just uglier
< 1440364208 384186 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1440364254 230839 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: your ĝ is totally wrong
< 1440364260 19709 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to have a caron, not a circumflex
< 1440364295 416116 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why the heck am I proofreading a terminal font in the middle of the night?
< 1440364310 150244 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... I don't know but thanks
< 1440364490 667585 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's neither unapproximatively the middle of the night.
< 1440364500 702950 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I'm not quite sure in this, because they're used only in Latvian or something, but I think ģ should have an accent that looks like an over-comma, not a cedilla, just like ș (Romanian s with comma) as opposed to ş (Turkish s with cedilla)
< 1440364523 636844 :TieSoul!~quassel@86.89.119.147 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1440364576 154977 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: the cedilla and the comma below was originally considered the same, then got disunified, which is why we have the encoding problems with the Romanian ș and ț, but if I understand right, ģ ķ ļ ņ ŗ only ever existed with a comma below/above, never a real cedilla
< 1440364629 467351 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand this correctly though
< 1440364684 281772 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding it to the list anyway, i'll research it
< 1440364712 648251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1440364728 695035 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you have the maltese H with bar
< 1440364744 854938 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to the physicist's h with bar)
< 1440364899 490734 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're actually the same character, though there's a compatibility alias for the latter, just like for the dreaded kelvin sign, if I understand correctly)
< 1440364945 450894 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: İ (Turkish capital I with dot) looks completely wrong
< 1440364982 254857 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: it's missing the dot in your font
< 1440365012 382221 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is?
< 1440365016 754462 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ı looks wrong too I think
< 1440365022 164332 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a dot there
< 1440365029 14873 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, maybe I'm confusing the characters here
< 1440365061 856716 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're right
< 1440365066 678792 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm misreading your font
< 1440365093 982660 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the Turkish İ and ı look right, sorry
< 1440365318 579292 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ŷ \x{177} looks wrong
< 1440365321 946558 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's missing the accent
< 1440365356 476081 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have a circumflet
< 1440365363 750933 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops
< 1440365391 784912 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh.
< 1440365433 150738 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: is it deliberate that the letter z part of ž differs from that in ż ?
< 1440365438 302705 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only like a pixel or something
< 1440365517 295340 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1440365582 754478 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the small z is supposed to be rounded more than the large z ehen both are the same size but I guess I wasn't consistent
< 1440365594 669010 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ill fix that
< 1440365598 679382 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-64-77.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
< 1440365736 319522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1440365787 766390 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I think your ˛ \x{2db} is wrong: it should be a standalone ogonek, but it looks like a cedilla
< 1440365793 531608 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1440365838 307280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var.fix$("The channel where "++).show
< 1440365840 63158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : The channel where "The channel where \"The channel where \\\"The channel whe...
< 1440365869 79116 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1440365895 789829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ostilltherek
< 1440365949 162472 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't know how these crazy standalone IPA accent characters are supposed to work
< 1440365953 121496 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43900&oldid=43805 5* 03Nooodl 5* (-612321) 10clean this mess of a sandbox up for once
< 1440366014 968051 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell¶rjan.
< 1440366266 110044 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1440366268 366733 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: do you have the crazy Welsh rare letters: ẁ ẃ ẅ and their uppercase? 
< 1440366271 438624 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not in the demo page
< 1440366293 242278 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ỳ too
< 1440366402 909876 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Welsh only ŵed the w. ẁ, ẃ and ẅ exist?
< 1440366444 966197 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I don't really know
< 1440366449 667037 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that's why they're crazy letters
< 1440366464 706982 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I have some evidence that at least one of the four exist, at least in some conventions
< 1440366475 742430 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean it's always written
< 1440366486 686407 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_accent#Length
< 1440366497 294329 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, yet
< 1440366525 8181 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which block are they in?
< 1440366547 414389 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: \x{1e80} 
< 1440366576 438365 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the block is probably \x{1e00}
< 1440366602 727004 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: interesting. they do eẍist and are used!
< 1440366609 570367 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that block contains partly letters for some transcription of Chinese with the tones shown as accent marks
< 1440366625 203776 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I don't know if all four of those letters exist in Welsh
< 1440366643 839124 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin extended additional is on my list
< 1440366645 418466 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: they exist in _some_ language because they're in unicode, but I suspect Chinese transliteration for that
< 1440366657 98373 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something similar
< 1440366730 382289 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1440366733 390328 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have better evidence
< 1440366746 670438 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :iso-8859-14 encodes all four
< 1440366754 250242 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ǖǘǚǜ?
< 1440366769 183296 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means they're used for _some_ celtic language, whether Welsh or some other I can't tell
< 1440366816 605937 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have all those
< 1440366829 38179 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: what the heck are those?
< 1440366842 551281 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those are used for mandarin pinyin
< 1440366848 790689 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1440366862 4044 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. u with umlaut, with tones
< 1440366896 154864 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the internet most people use v instead of umlaut u IIRC)
< 1440366899 410330 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ ǘ (u with diaresis and acute) appeared in some very few very rare Hungarian text, instead of ű, back when the writing conventions weren't figured out
< 1440366906 92459 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not quite sure in this
< 1440366948 682932 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not clear if that use deserves an encoding separate from ű
< 1440366957 717707 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: on my keyboard layout, when I type [Dead ¯] then [v] I get ǖ. same for the others. 
< 1440366984 898673 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might because ű has some uses other than Hungarian, historically speaking
< 1440367103 172915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellǫily
< 1440367124 59605 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: you don't have ≈ (approximately equal)
< 1440367129 46568 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the demo that is
< 1440367147 111660 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm working on that block right now, it will be fuller when I update it
< 1440367193 942114 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1440367224 566653 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: also \x{223c} ∼ (single middle squiggle relation operator)
< 1440367278 906186 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also \x{2282} ⊂ (subset of)
< 1440367301 66202 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or \x{2295} ⊕
< 1440367305 160309 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :êếề?
< 1440367321 42352 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course it's questionable how useful these maths operators are in a monospaced font
< 1440367349 166575 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, that's a question I never consider!
< 1440367352 441919 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1440367429 758286 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ⊥ would probably be genuinely useful even in monospaced, because some crazy haskellers who like unicode symbols can type it
< 1440367464 142718 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the kind of haskellers who replace all instances of \ -> <- => :: ++ with unicode symbols
< 1440367510 618996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's scow hth
< 1440367558 81936 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellochaf. I take it you're not a crazy Haskeller?
< 1440367565 14128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :unclear
< 1440367570 58219 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you have all the line drawing characters, even the ones not in cp437
< 1440367575 33174 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07JSFuck14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43901&oldid=43255 5* 03Nooodl 5* (-11) 10genderrrrr
< 1440367584 353673 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are non-crazy haskellers?
< 1440367602 218484 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eg. you have the round ones that I think are in the Commodore 64 character set)
< 1440367682 388573 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah
< 1440367710 982426 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm adding all the math operators that I can actually draw at the size of this font
< 1440367721 670595 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: shouldn't ■ \x{25a0} be a smaller box than what you have? That's the character that encodes the cp437 byte \xfe which is used in some dos text mode GUI programs, and I think in vga fonts it's a smaller box.
< 1440367758 470307 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe not in all vga fonts, just the ones I'm used to
< 1440367882 306347 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: you don't have \x{2302}. maybe you should check if you have all the cp437 chars in the ascii control places (I think I have added all of those to my font specifically)
< 1440367896 274299 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to have most of them
< 1440367912 450373 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that one is missing
< 1440367956 164943 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that one is in the font but not on the page. i'll fix it
< 1440367961 591058 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1440367967 734911 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night now, and keep up the good work
< 1440368002 640173 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_onnes nuit!
< 1440368151 434428 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the record, 0b_jonas is not me, it's my evil twin
< 1440368179 922413 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's sometimes called ₀b_jonas or ₀₈_jonas
< 1440368342 64604 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? scow
< 1440368350 821633 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0b_jonas is to b_jonas what oerjan is to int-e. understood.
< 1440368354 392613 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1440368368 499373 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1440368369 351942 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1440368369 666665 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :69     |
< 1440368369 877044 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :69   º¯`\o
< 1440368392 546375 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good job, myndzi.
< 1440368450 370501 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of a mathematically nice formal system which corresponds to Rust.
< 1440368481 651249 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, it kind of seems like if Rust were purely functional, then T, &T, and &mut T would all be essentially the same thing.
< 1440368579 36683 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not quite.
< 1440368612 629843 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :T and &T would be the same thing. But passing a &mut T to a function would correspond to passing a T and then expecting another T back.
< 1440368850 940693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gets even more interesting when you think about subclasses in C++.
< 1440368874 680763 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you have struct A { int x; }; struct B : A { int y; };
< 1440368923 315901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :void f(A *a) { a->x *= 10; }, and then you pass a B * to f.
< 1440368951 28251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the actual relationship of A and B, from this "purely functional" perspective?
< 1440368972 43322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :f :: A -> A
< 1440368995 616142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can turn B to A, when you pass it into f. And, given the new A that f gives you, you can "put it back" into the original B.
< 1440369017 134752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have (B -> A, B -> A -> A)
< 1440369038 417970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a familiar structure hth
< 1440369117 507333 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :os
< 1440369223 563200 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? os
< 1440369224 650024 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :os is the accusative plural of us.
< 1440369376 600336 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure enough. First-person plural accusative: "os".
< 1440369385 340697 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nominative is "vi".
< 1440369410 575092 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I suppose there's no reason not to simply take STLC and add & and &mut to it.
< 1440369430 199696 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :First problem. &T and &mut T aren't actually types.
< 1440369446 87517 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :&'a T and &'a mut T are types, given a lifetime 'a.
< 1440369458 38094 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :math operators updated
< 1440369563 860126 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to make much sense to have references when there are no memory locations for them to reference.
< 1440369593 64764 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs.

< 1440369672 322596 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that both "immutable borrow" and "mutable borrow" constructs seem to make sense. As I envision it, I can't see how the "immutable borrow" construct would be useful at all, so let's look at the mutable borrow construct instead.
< 1440369738 305394 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily
< 1440369749 237607 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have walked
< 1440369754 147813 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a T, then you can perform a mutable borrow of T. Within the mutable borrow, you get a &mut T that you can pass around willy-nilly. At the end of the borrow, the same &mut T must be returned back.
< 1440369806 619313 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, &mut Ts are uncopyable, so we need to use linear logic.
< 1440369825 847983 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, wait, wait.
< 1440369848 336432 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same &mut T must be returned back? What have we accomplished if the &mut T has to be given back?
< 1440369853 154637 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could have just used a T this whole time.
< 1440369898 916515 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :&mut is starting to feel like it's just syntactic sugar.
< 1440369900 734398 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i'm gonna take a shower. message me on steam when you're ready.
< 1440370357 747562 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1440370777 418569 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right, &mut feels a lot like syntactic sugar. But let's consider linear typing now. If T is your average linear type, then T can't be copied, but &T can.
< 1440370888 479876 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that in general, the behavior of &T can't really be predicted by the behavior of T.
< 1440370998 543313 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it can.
< 1440371041 220780 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about a &T is that when you do things with a &T, you're doing stuff with the T and then returning the *same* T back.
< 1440371453 480589 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: IEUAAAAAAAAAAAAHRGHGHGHGHGHFLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLBL!
< 1440371463 708745 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think the moral of the story is that a &A -> B is essentially the same as an A -> (A, B) with the property that the function's first output always equals its input.
< 1440371475 665281 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1440371476 421610 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With one caveat.
< 1440371515 688618 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really &A -> B; it's really &'x A -> B. 'x is a lifetime symbol, and the caveat is that 'x must not appear anywhere in B.
< 1440371704 89312 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1440372626 89355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1440372684 367291 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1440373039 480727 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, &mut isn't very fancy.
< 1440373086 82783 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that a "&'x mut A -> B" is essentially the same as an "A -> (A, B)" (without the equality requirement), with the caveat that 'x must not appear anywhere in B.
< 1440373148 974176 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like the big difference between T and &mut T is that if you have a &mut T, you can drop it, but the underlying value will come back later.
< 1440373184 562172 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that's actually theoretically useful.
< 1440373947 237179 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: asdfasdfasdf
< 1440374304 452488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode NEITHER APPROXIMATELY NOR ACTUALLY EQUAL TO
< 1440374312 337635 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​≇