00:00:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:07:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:07:06 Hellu 00:10:53 hellü hppavilion 00:12:22 what brings you to the chⱥnnel today 00:27:02 @seen Bike 00:27:02 8iKe 00:27:10 well. 00:31:38 @leet Bike 00:31:38 BIk3 00:31:44 @help leet 00:31:44 elite . Translate English to elitespeak 00:31:52 @help seen 00:31:52 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 00:31:56 Yep. 00:32:44 mauris_: Bike hasn't been in this channel in a _long_ time 00:33:03 right now he's not on freenode either 00:33:41 @seen djanatyn 00:33:41 DjAn4+yn 00:33:50 Brb, changing my password to that. 00:34:03 lgtm 00:34:17 is that the moldovan version of jonathan? 00:34:47 THAUSIBLE 00:34:57 (where moldova is any country in europe) 00:35:36 i'm going to learn to write better parsers and interpreters by writing one for this http://pastebin.com/EkCQi6N9 script i designed 00:36:02 what approach do you guys reckon would be best? lex character by character, maybe split and regex matchers or perhaps even a mix of both? 00:36:17 oren: It’s the Lojban version. 00:36:32 (any thoughts on the lang itself is welcome) 00:36:33 molojban 00:36:54 and hi oerjan didnt see you there 00:37:58 I usually write a lexer by scanning each character 00:39:00 i guess doing that and putting each atom in an array tree and interpret that? 00:39:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 00:39:54 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:41:55 parsec is the only thing i know how to write parsers with 00:42:10 mauris_: high five 00:43:11 (i _know_ how to do it other ways, in theory.) 00:46:32 mauris_: i'll look into it 00:54:16 I have written other parser before but have used Parsec and Lemon; I have also once converted a recursive descent parser from C into BASIC (as I had no C compiler on the target computer, nor a disk) 00:58:44 well time to hit the hay, i'll sleep on it thanks guys o/ 00:58:46 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 01:01:53 -!- idris-bot has joined. 01:03:06 -!- stalem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:03:15 or air closet, either way works, AC/DC you know <-- i just keep them in the same closet as my vacuum hth 01:05:15 darn bad timing 01:10:53 idris is the worst 01:14:55 I installed the package of "Amoebax" game but I found out that it does not normally let you to set the controls for both players to the same keys, but I found the configuration file and now I can do it anyways, so now I can vers myself; it is difficult because the ghost-block can drop at the different place for each player 01:19:11 Would it be possible for a terminal emulator to fake the "break" function by looking at the termios settings even though normally cannot be used with pseudoterminals? 01:22:15 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:35:33 I have invented syllabic dicentiquinquigentimal 01:36:08 a base 256 number system where each digit has a unique syllable 01:37:29 er, maybe that should be dicentisexiquingentimal? 01:38:25 OK, did you write down all of their working? 01:38:45 the high 4 bits are represented by the start consonant 01:38:49 f p b sp s t d st h k g sk n m l sn 01:39:32 the low four bits are represented by the vowel and end consonant: 01:39:49 a i u e o ya yu yo an in un en on yan yun yon 01:40:15 OK 01:40:32 thus instead of saying eff eff zero zero eff eff 01:40:46 you can say snyan fa snyan 01:42:03 I think I invented something similar once to encode Japanese alphabets, although not all numbers are valid because Japanese alphabets doesn't have that much. 01:52:43 I wonder if it's better for words for digits to be regular or irregular. 01:53:13 What's better: "zero, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine" or "ta, te, ti, to, tu, ba, be, bi, bo, bu"? 01:54:57 I feel like irregular is better. That way, different digits are more dissimilar. 02:01:29 -!- atslash has joined. 02:07:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:07:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:09:34 More wisdom from the neural net: 02:09:57 11:38:23: maybe I don't know what for proofs of memory to be science somewhere. 02:10:08 I know that feeling. 02:10:34 The feeling of not knowing what for proofs of memory to be science somewhere. 02:10:48 Sometimes I feel like really I still don't know what for proofs of memory to be science somewhere. 02:17:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:17:14 Also: 02:17:25 23:47:44: You have to totally it. 02:18:04 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:18:24 11:56:54: hmm, not the falling 02:18:59 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 02:19:43 Oh my god. Deepest words ever produced by a neural net. 02:20:03 11:14:36: int-e: I'm not fungot, and I'm completely fungot. 02:20:03 tswett: any ideas? comments? concerns? please contact the webmaster/ fnord/ 04/ fnord/ fnord/ images/ p6_cover_big.gif 02:22:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:23:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:24:29 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:28:20 there is a unicode character for "may peace be upon him" ﷺ 02:28:38 fungot: give me a sentence please. 02:28:38 tswett: scheme in lisp, with optimizations. there was hugs, too, for all practical purposes 02:28:41 `unidecode ﷺ 02:28:42 [U+FDFA ARABIC LIGATURE SALLALLAHOU ALAYHE WASALLAM] 02:35:05 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:35:14 i wonder what unicode character is the most complex 02:37:35 > 0xfdfa 02:37:37 65018 02:41:09 `unidecode 𪚥 02:41:09 [U+2A6A5 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-2A6A5] 02:42:18 that's a chinese character with 64 strokes, consisting of 4 of 龍 in a square 02:44:07 apparently it means "verbose." ha. ha. ha. 02:46:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:52:03 What does 龍 mean? 02:52:55 Dragon 02:53:40 in Mandarin, pronounced "long" in Japanese pronounced "ryuu" 02:54:40 -!- rdococ has joined. 02:55:24 Although in japan the simplified form 竜 is more common than 龍 03:05:38 -!- JesseH has joined. 03:06:19 Writing an interpreter for my language to learn another language and I need to make some decisions to make derplang better. 03:07:11 As of now, i allow users to use multiple lines, although originally you could only use one line. Wouldn't it make sense to go back to only allowing one line? 03:07:46 One of of code for the whole program you mean? 03:08:39 if there is no length limit on that line then there's no problem 03:10:23 but then all that's really doing is forcing the user to do one more step, if it comes to it, which would be taking out the useless whitespace which my interpreter would normally do. 03:11:11 However, since this is an esolang, shouldn't that make sense? 03:11:21 I don't know othey things about derplang, so I've no idea of the context in which it originally only allowed one line. 03:13:36 Simple, the language forced the use of one line at first, and then i made the interpreter not care. 03:14:02 Also, I need a mod on the wiki to help me out. I tried to edit my page and it said that it was harmful. 03:14:17 if an interpreter reads one byte of source at a time, and doesn't handle whitespace as a noop... 03:14:30 then it would only allow one line 03:14:45 I see no commands for importing libraries. 03:14:57 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 03:15:20 I'm trying to get rid of some unimplemented filth on the wiki 03:15:29 I wrote some stuff such as STD which isnt a standard library at all 03:15:44 such as the STD section* 03:16:10 If each program was one line, but could be called as a function by just saying something like function:filename, that could keep things short. 03:16:20 While making a ton of library layers. 03:16:50 The point was to not care about the length of the code, and just allow one line only, anyway. To make it painful. 03:16:59 -!- JenTheHappyGeek has joined. 03:17:07 Since I didn't feel the language was esoteric enough. 03:17:49 Hi there! I stumbled across this channel and was wondering what its purpose/subject-matter is. 03:17:59 ah, i see 03:18:03 -!- JenTheHappyGeek has left. 03:18:24 :| 03:19:24 lolwut 03:20:12 tralala? 03:20:24 Can a mod on the wiki change /derplang (the page) to http://hastebin.com/marogejivi.vhdl 03:20:30 Apparently I can't. 03:23:23 Oh wow, I have a lot to fix on that page. 03:23:30 It's like I wasn't even trying to create a good page. 03:24:27 [wiki] [[Derplang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43960&oldid=38893 * Orenwatson * (-91) changed from pastebin supplied via irc 03:24:38 there you go 03:25:10 [wiki] [[Derplang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43961&oldid=43960 * Orenwatson * (+0) fixed typoes 03:25:42 Thanks, oren 03:25:55 Being able to make changes myself would be even better! :P 03:26:04 try now 03:26:37 I think the prblem was caused by content that was already there being considered "harmful" 03:27:01 that is, the rules for what is harmful changed after the page was created 03:27:05 or something 03:28:24 by the way im not a mod 03:29:13 [wiki] [[Derplang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43962&oldid=43961 * JesseH * (-108) 03:29:25 Okay sweet. I edited it successfully! 03:30:27 Either way, oren. I made the changes I wanted to make, and i blame you. 03:31:03 [wiki] [[Derplang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43963&oldid=43962 * JesseH * (-1) 03:31:14 Every update I make will get spammed into here? :P 03:32:17 yup! it never became a problem since the wiki is not so active 03:32:19 I think I'm going to take out the fo command. 03:32:31 (for loop) 03:32:47 Then people will be forced to do everything with eq and go 03:32:57 and gt, and lt 03:34:57 [wiki] [[Derplang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43964&oldid=43963 * JesseH * (-119) /* Language Overview */ 03:35:16 Took it out. I'm just cleaning this up before I implement in erlang. :P 03:37:05 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * D2alphame * New user account 03:39:25 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:39:47 -!- lleu has joined. 03:39:47 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 03:39:47 -!- lleu has joined. 03:55:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:59:42 JesseH: i believe you hit an anti-spam forbidding

03:59:48 *anti-spam rule 04:00:06 Oh, that makes sense. 04:00:29 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:01:08 ais523 has made a number of rules based on spams not looking like normal wiki pages 04:01:30 ugh 04:01:43 can someone call the headache.Stop method please? 04:02:10 headache.Stop()[]; 04:02:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:05:23 umm 04:05:41 can't index nil 04:05:48 but thanks 04:06:25 In Argk, my new language, you can pass logic and what not to functions with [] 04:06:52 So like, "print('~n')[n=99, n>0, n-=1]; 04:07:01 would print 99, 98, ..., 1 04:15:40 you mean shorthand for for loops? 04:16:21 I so need to make a new programming language... 04:20:43 I would try to give more examples, but you're very annoying. 04:21:08 No offense, but it's not working for me tonight. I'd normally have no issue. 04:21:43 O_o 04:22:44 I give one minor example of something, and he corrects me, as if I didn't know my own language, and says that it is a for loop. :P 04:23:01 Yes, I gave you the example that replaces the for loop. 04:23:22 i think you're overinterpreting hth 04:23:35 I am, I am. 04:23:57 Guess I'm a little stressed and tired. 04:24:02 Sorry rdococ :P 04:26:14 print('hello', '~n')[x=input(), n=x+'!']; 04:26:55 That would first get input from you, and then print out "hello!" 04:27:27 But I feel like theres something im not seeing with this sort of idea that's broken 04:27:55 well it resembles list or monad comprehensions 04:28:05 but it's a bit inside out 04:28:29 It almost seems like a disorganized waste of space. 04:28:57 It's pretty much just putting code I'd write somewhere else inside []'s after a function 04:29:18 Well thanks guys, that ruined that idea. xd 04:29:27 [putStrLn("hello "++n)|x <- getLine, let n = s ++ "!"] would be legal haskell monad comprehension with the right extension enabled 04:30:08 and scala uses for syntax for the same thing 04:30:22 So I was about to make up monad comprehensions. Sweet, ill learn haskell or something one day. 04:31:05 I'm tired too. 04:31:22 but there's something else too, iirc Icon (which i don't really know) has expression which backtrack 04:31:27 *expressions 04:32:20 But how could you tell between the for syntax, and between indexing the value of a function? 04:33:03 E.g. if f(x) returned an array, what would f(x)[] do? Index f(x) at nil, return an error, or do some kind of iteration? 04:33:17 well that's the point where i thought icon's backtracking expressions might be closer 04:33:41 but none of these fits exactly, i guess 04:35:17 and you could maybe add prolog to the mix 04:35:44 well, you already know erlang 04:36:11 so it has some common elements. but i don't think it has that one. 04:37:12 JesseH: the tricky decision is exactly what decides when the iteration happens. 04:38:09 needs some evaluation and scoping rules etc. 04:39:11 and does print's implementation need to handle any of it 04:39:20 I can see f(x)[...] could return multiple things. 'a,b,c = f(x)[...]' for example. 04:39:40 oerjan, The idea is to implement useful things for functions, that might be commonly written. 04:40:45 sure 04:43:44 oh and APL/J/K has a lot of this for arrays, but in that case it's _definitely_ each function needing to handle it 04:45:02 JesseH: what i mean is, among other things, does a function get to decide whether to pass the whole [...] thing along to another function instead 04:45:18 and is the default to do that or the opposite 04:45:25 Hellu 04:45:30 Anyone present? 04:45:39 nope, completely empty hth 04:45:47 Ah 04:45:48 OK 04:45:55 O_o 04:46:10 oerjan, you decide, and ill get back to you on that once i sleep :| 04:46:19 ARGH 04:46:54 I'm designing a simulator which emulates an Esoteric Processor 04:47:04 OR a simulator which emulates an Esoteric Universe 04:47:11 Anyoone have any ideas for either one? 04:47:18 what about an Esoteric Professor twh 04:47:36 * oerjan full of bad ideas today 04:48:26 The Esoteric Processor I'm going to have to think about what I want it to be like in general, now that I think about it 04:49:50 "EsoUni-I: A Foreign Universe" 04:49:52 esoteric 04:50:01 what about an esoteric esoteric thing? 04:50:06 Oh 04:50:08 Hi, rdococ! 04:51:19 I want the Esoteric Processor to be: 04:51:31 GUI-based (that is, you'll have a GUI that you work with) 04:51:35 Configurable 04:52:06 Buildable (as in, you assemble an EsoProcessor in the emulator, it doesn't just spit one out) 04:52:20 -!- JesseH has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:52:43 Esoteric, but not so much that it alienates people 04:53:10 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:54:50 an esoteric processor? 04:55:08 what kind of processor? 04:55:23 I'm not sure yet 04:55:26 As in, a computer 04:55:46 I want to make an almost-game where you build a computer that behaves very differently from any real computer 04:55:59 As far as I know, most processors are esoteric, at least to me... 04:56:09 how do you do that? computers can behave like anything, that's what they're meant to do 04:56:10 zgrep: Fair point 04:56:20 rdococ: Another fair point 04:56:26 But these would look weird :P 04:56:42 you want a computer that looks and behaves weirdly? 04:56:44 Basically, it wouldn't be /too/ esoteric, as really esoteric things alienate people 04:56:58 rdococ: Yes. And I want to make an almost-game out of it 04:57:06 and what is an almost-game? 04:57:29 An almost game is something with gameplay components but no real game 04:57:36 Like Minecraft in creative mode 04:57:54 Except you can just think and stuff happens 04:58:04 umm, that's called mind reading 04:58:18 it could certainly be possible, but not accurate 04:58:41 That's not part of the game 04:58:50 uh... 04:58:57 An almost game is something that /could/ be a game if one were to add an actual challenge ot it 04:58:58 okay, back to talking about an almost-game 04:59:01 That's what i meant to say 04:59:11 you mean sandbox game? 04:59:23 they're not almost-games, they're games 04:59:25 Kind of 04:59:36 but not even a sandbox? 04:59:38 Sandbox games are PvLoS 04:59:46 Player versus Lack of Stuff 04:59:57 OK 05:00:09 Imagine a game where the goal is to build computers for aliens 05:00:11 what an interesting way to look at a sandbox game 05:00:15 You have a conveyor belt 05:00:19 You assemble a computer 05:00:21 Then you test it 05:00:44 and it causes BSOLOD: blue screen of lack of death 05:00:45 jk 05:00:54 Now remove any cost constraints and the requirement to build a computer for aliens, but leave in the computer building part 05:01:00 THAT'S what I want to make 05:01:03 I'm tired, so I might act a bit jerky, like a machine that needs lubricant 05:01:26 oh 05:01:27 Ah 05:01:41 you mean, a program in which you can assemble your own computer? 05:01:47 Yes 05:01:55 But it's a simple computer 05:02:02 how simple are we talking? 05:02:05 And defies all notion of what a computer is to a primative mortal 05:02:11 Simple enough for me to program xD 05:02:15 hmm 05:02:35 as I said earlier, a computer is meant to be programmable to behave like any machine, as it's a general purpose machine 05:02:51 True 05:02:53 so this defiant computer would be meant to be not programmable, and can't behave like any machine 05:02:56 But its base nature stays the same 05:03:00 No 05:03:00 oh 05:03:10 I said "To a primative mortal" 05:03:15 a primitive mortal? 05:03:25 Someone who doesn't understand what you just said 05:03:29 About programmability 05:03:42 okay 05:04:01 a primitive mortal would think a computer...uhh...would they even think about it? 05:04:01 An esoteric computer would, for example, run a declarative machine code based on geometry 05:04:07 oh 05:04:16 And formal logic 05:04:29 so something that consumers don't think of as programming? 05:04:39 Exactly 05:04:45 haskell? 05:05:05 well, I wouldn't exactly call haskell programming, but it fits what you say 05:05:06 Yes 05:05:20 But you would have a flashy interface where you build a computer like that 05:05:31 It's more quasi-esoteric than esoteric 05:05:33 a computer that runs declarative machine code... 05:05:38 I need something that seems esoteric 05:05:43 But isn't _that_ esoteric 05:05:49 Such as not to alienate consumeres xD 05:05:58 I'm being very shallow right now 05:06:03 we'd need something a little less esoteric than haskell, right? 05:06:13 Yes 05:06:19 hmm 05:06:31 Another example is that, in this program, you could construct a ternary processor chip 05:06:33 wait, we want consumers to be able to program in it? 05:06:48 Advanced consumers 05:06:58 like small businesses? 05:07:10 Like the kind of people who build Minecraft computers 05:07:22 computers in Minecraft? 05:07:25 Yes 05:07:27 People do that 05:07:33 oh 05:07:38 hmm 05:07:49 I'm going to write down the Ternary chip idea 05:07:49 you can do this in logisim, I think 05:08:43 which is a program that simulates circuitry 05:09:14 I'll check it out 05:09:17 okay 05:09:57 So 05:10:08 It'll allow you to construct esoteric processor chips 05:10:14 Which will be converted to Lua 05:10:18 Or something 05:10:26 And build computers with those chips 05:10:28 it sounds doable 05:10:53 might have already been done 05:11:05 people have assembled whole computers in Logisim 05:11:37 True 05:11:45 This would make it more fun though 05:11:59 'Cause you get a pretty 2D interface 05:12:00 xD 05:12:29 Another, non-esoteric project I'm working on is an Evolution simulator 05:13:13 can't we just make a general purpose processor that can act like every other processor? 05:15:12 ...okay... 05:15:19 That's the computer that the device is running on 05:15:32 And, if you do it right, the computer that you build 05:15:36 I have an idea for a new programming language which I had a long time ago, but never got around to making an article for 05:15:58 stupid cd drive making clicky sounds 05:16:06 in which programs are stored as mathematical functions 05:16:32 Ooooh 05:16:54 program(state, input) => new state 05:16:59 OK 05:17:16 but unlike a FSM, there are infinitely many possible states 05:17:33 how about (state, input) => (state, Maybe output) 05:17:55 yes, we need an output system 05:18:33 but what to output for each state? 05:18:39 there are infinitely many states 05:19:14 also, such output system is not required for turing completeness 05:19:27 But it's required for anyone-caresness 05:19:42 A language should always have IO for anyone to care 05:19:48 and it's required for less-esotericness 05:20:00 although there's already "output": the state number 05:20:02 IO doesn't make a language any less esoteric 05:20:13 I have thought of similar things too though about such program mathematical function 05:20:23 Preferably an esolang should also have GUI support 05:20:32 I want to see BeKinter 05:20:48 people care about brainfuck, and brainfuck has no GUI 05:21:02 I know 05:21:15 But people would LOVE an esolang with GUI that maintains esotericness 05:21:26 I mean, people love BF 05:21:28 why not two special infinite subspaces of the state space, where states in the first ouput 0 and the other outputs 1 05:21:41 I basically mean that GUI gets you points 05:21:47 and states outside both don't output 05:23:14 my Folder programming language, despite not being TC, does have GUI, but it's not mentioned nearly as much here 05:23:20 Hi oren 05:23:31 Folder has full GUI 05:23:38 It has every possible GUI imaginable 05:23:59 and it's still esoteric, to an extent 05:24:09 I firmly maintain my stance that programs embedded in Folder make it TC 05:24:31 Also, wouldn't it be cool if someone were to make a TC filesys? 05:24:38 That would be AWESOME 05:24:40 and I firmly enforce my rule that such programs embedded in Folder programs stop them from being Folder programs 05:24:49 :,( 05:24:53 WAIT! 05:24:58 I know how it can be TC 05:25:00 only linear media are allowed in folder programs 05:25:06 yeah? 05:25:11 Have a text file giving a user instructions on how to manipulate the folders 05:25:19 that's cheating 05:25:21 The brain is TC 05:25:28 if that was true, then Text would be TC 05:25:35 Text IS TC 05:25:39 ... 05:25:41 Text is (usually) english 05:25:50 Text is NOT TC 05:25:53 (when the writer is an english speaker) 05:26:01 the human brain isn't TC as you claimed 05:26:18 Wait, is text an esolang or are we just discussing plaintext? 05:26:26 the esolang 05:26:26 How is the brain not TC? 05:26:28 Oh 05:26:34 yaeh. all real computers of any kind are subTC 05:26:39 I thought we were discussing text/plain 05:26:42 Oh 05:26:44 Well duh 05:26:45 the brain is in the real world, and nothing is TC in the real world 05:26:48 Limited memory 05:26:52 exactly 05:26:53 It's Practical TC 05:27:00 .. 05:27:07 Practical TC is what we have 05:27:27 we can do stuff TC can't, for example, solve the halting problem 05:27:27 What if there's a SuperTC computational class that the human brain is orders of magnitude too tiny to comprehend? 05:27:32 so if brains are so good go marry one 05:27:50 rdococ: We can solve halting problems that can be solved 05:27:58