< 1442793901 863978 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1442794354 417720 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back < 1442795642 961053 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Major change #1 in Zodiac Lisp: AFAICT, the function call cannot be another SExp. In LIZP (or whatever I call it), this will be possible: < 1442795680 664782 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :((if (= op 'sub') - +) 1 2 3 4 5) < 1442795822 575049 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1442796055 403963 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like the idea of adjectives for OO... < 1442796084 441274 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps an adjective called "fat" in a language that makes you deal with memory? < 1442796160 123737 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :person = class(){__init__ = function(object self, short age){short self.age = age}} < 1442796168 290612 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm unconfortable with - taking more than two arguments < 1442796194 760315 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you create "person" with the "fat" descriptor, then the "short"s become "long"s < 1442796203 142439 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Subtraction is just adding the inverse < 1442796225 642555 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of (- 1 2 3 4 5) as (+ 1 -2 -3 -4 -5) < 1442796232 53568 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes but < 1442796243 168902 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what makes ME uncomfortable? < 1442796249 270964 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple-argument /bit shifts/ < 1442796260 844094 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<< 16 2) is OK < 1442796269 749 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But (<< 16 2 3)!? WTF!? < 1442796285 924980 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean? < 1442796310 934850 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< is the bitwise left shift, at least in python < 1442796322 722721 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure in most languages that support it < 1442796389 894435 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Or do you not know what bitshift is? xD < 1442796451 672132 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (<< 16 2 3) is like (16 << 2) << 3 in c? < 1442796473 793822 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it must be < 1442796487 966037 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that's the only interpretation I can think of < 1442796501 463068 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or 16 << (2 << 3) < 1442796508 79590 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But probably the first one < 1442796811 265090 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I'm trying to make The λ-Calculus easier to understand by inventing λ-Arithmetic, for people to start with. It's part of the ZWG's "Elementary School CS" project. Do you have any ideas? < 1442796825 849063 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is zwg? < 1442796846 575637 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zodiac Working Group < 1442796895 216340 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a group I started attempting to make the products of a tendency towards Esolangs useful and more widespread < 1442796916 479379 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make them less eso-, wouldn't it? < 1442796929 99088 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, actual, useful programming languages that are nothing like what normal programming languages are < 1442796940 924680 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Yes, but such is the cost of bettering humanity through the esoteric < 1442796974 705530 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The first attempt at the aforementioned type of language was Stare, for which the jury is still out on whether it's a useful thing) < 1442797005 90327 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The goal is to create more Perls and Haskells for the world) < 1442797085 454165 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do you have any suggestions for λ-Arithmetic? < 1442797123 778620 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not good at inventing things < 1442797135 278044 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you understand the λ-Calculus? < 1442797138 124945 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I barely do < 1442797155 869604 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that doesn't sound like a great starting point for inventing a new branch of it < 1442797200 176222 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1442797201 124871 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1442797204 417062 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning about it though < 1442797258 594553 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you say "more Perls and Haskells"? < 1442797268 258054 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean they're really different < 1442797290 602938 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're so different, but they have their uses. < 1442797304 881834 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND they help expand the minds of programmers, get them to think in different ways < 1442797362 790808 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmers are smart, but not smart enough. The goal of the ZWG is to get programmers so smart that we become telepathic and can use our infinite glorious knowledge to become gods and rule over the universe with an iron fist as a massive collective wait what? < 1442797380 876680 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You saw nothing. < 1442797421 920096 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that escalated quickly < 1442797430 332796 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... nothing escalated quickly < 1442797443 100349 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1442797794 477127 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1442797916 236818 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442798501 896074 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make yet another website documenting all of the math... < 1442799028 132861 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442799115 897269 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my "All of the Math" website would be targetted at people with a genuine interest in mathematics, as opposed to those who just need to get their homework done so they can pass < 1442799295 872129 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Math++14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44317&oldid=44316 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+113) 10 < 1442799331 512695 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: what do you mean by λ-Arithmetic? < 1442799369 30989 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I was just making things up xD. I was wondering if it was possible to create a simpler λ-calculus that need not be TC, but would be a good way to start learning about it < 1442799391 981693 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same way it's easier to figure out normal Calculi if you already understand how to add < 1442799546 463978 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda calculus isn't really related to differential calculus, though. < 1442799598 891474 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "calculus" in "lambda calculus" means "collection of symbol manipulation rules". < 1442799629 884866 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I know, but that doesn't mean there isn't a much simpler thing that one could think of as the "arithmetic" of λness, though I suppose arithmetic wouldn't be the proper word for it < 1442799651 208432 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean there is, either, of course < 1442799653 570500 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :first order lambda calc? < 1442799666 657916 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about last order lambda calculus? xD < 1442799675 342660 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've given up on λ-arithmetic < 1442799679 314054 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm remember that name < 1442799728 146561 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If, someday, I happen to be good with λ-calculus and want to help others understand it too (and they don't already), I might make a paper or a book called "λ-arithmetic" just as a pun < 1442799755 882838 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1442799790 746636 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I might've said this before, but I'm saying it now because I don't think I did) < 1442799810 313908 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I first checked my school district's requirements to graduate, I was a /little/ angry < 1442799819 942754 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/ < 1442799820 298459 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may try non-Church encoding of arithmetics in \lambda calculus < 1442799832 975897 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need 4 credits Social Studies and English < 1442799849 444662 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only 3 in math and 3 (or maybe less) in science < 1442799866 270367 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus, I was like "OK school district, what the FUCK are you doing" < 1442799895 798224 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, in my Algebra II class, the teacher was talking about how some people hit a ceiling on their ability to comprehend math. < 1442799898 484484 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I realized < 1442799901 865708 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a problem < 1442799904 833555 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I always hated english but had difficulty articulating that < 1442799913 634993 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1442799918 863204 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that they require so much english and Social Studies. < 1442799944 223890 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't necessarily need Math and Science, but others don't necessarily need English and Social Studies < 1442799984 74628 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided you shouldn't be required to take more math, because then some people would never graduate because they hit a ceiling on their ability to comprehend abstract mathematical concepts < 1442800019 265044 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to graduate on a fixed number of credits from /any/ class with some low minimums on how many can be from each subject < 1442800029 543408 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you graduated yet? < 1442800033 237495 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how civilization dies < 1442800036 899112 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1442800069 114068 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, people who are great at writing but suck at math don't hit a ceiling, and people who are great at math but not so much at writing could greaduate on math credits < 1442800090 34324 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: You couldn't get away with /no/ SS and English, but you also couldn't get away wiht /no/ math and science < 1442800130 350350 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there will always be people who are good at math and science and enjoy it, so the idea that if we don't require as much then no one at all will understand it doesn't make sense < 1442800144 41228 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :by that reasoning, why are we forcing people to take their first grade math classes? < 1442800152 660128 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have calculators < 1442800161 351722 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't need to be able to sum < 1442800167 983741 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tradition < 1442800174 694789 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Because no one who doesn't have some serious issue hits the ceiling at first grade math < 1442800179 923768 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still help to know how sum works, even if you can do it by calculator < 1442800192 829047 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :but children hit their ceilings < 1442800217 778224 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a BIG difference between having trouble at first grade math and being mentally unable to understand differential calculus < 1442800220 76300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For simple sums I don't use the calculator, it is easy enough without < 1442800220 627491 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brett victor says we don't need as much analytic math because direct simulation can get many results that matter to us < 1442800221 882859 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1442800225 330828 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no there isn't < 1442800241 538622 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculus is easy < 1442800257 67013 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceptually < 1442800260 148677 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: For you and me it is (well, I haven't gotten there yet, but it should be) < 1442800292 511845 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything that's taught in school classes is easy < 1442800306 675274 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps for you < 1442800314 391624 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, for the most part, for me < 1442800327 284280 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm good at learning, bad at showing I did it on homework) < 1442800345 68008 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :being easy is the reason they're teaching it in school classes < 1442800371 218149 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1442800382 826423 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wanted to create a YouTube lecture series that teaches math. < 1442800394 411978 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work as agricultural labor, all my coworkers can understand what a derivative is even if they don't know how that matches to written formulas. < 1442800399 718242 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all of them are good at easy; the art class is difficult, I dropped it. < 1442800424 227570 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I want to see a video that works from arithmetic to calculus in pure mathematics < 1442800426 889658 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No analogies < 1442800477 252428 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I hate to burst your bubble--there are gonna be analogies everywhere. < 1442800478 170179 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a short part of the video that defines some primitive symbols, then uses those symbols to define more complex things, and works up to extreme complexity < 1442800481 28771 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how much calculus you know, you'll never become the suppository of all wisdom < 1442800491 372235 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Tony Abbot < 1442800495 62522 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: In your video if you do it? < 1442800496 969301 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fine < 1442800499 221624 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :analogies are the difficult part < 1442800503 747643 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need you to do it personally xD < 1442800506 738795 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, you're talking about something else. < 1442800517 678560 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are the part that takes the most effort to learn < 1442800524 127045 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Let's assume that people having trouble with calc is the same as people having trouble wiht multiplication. < 1442800525 714574 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for every concept, I'd have three things: the intuition behind the concept, the definition of the concept, and a bunch of examples. < 1442800535 769501 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let's < 1442800538 813636 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, an explanation of how these all relate to each other. < 1442800549 983059 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure my target audience is bright adults who just happen to have never learned this stuff. < 1442800553 713658 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I would want is more of the books, the problem is they make too many videos which mean some things I cannot find in books so well < 1442800584 872321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things are difficult with analogies, some things are difficult without analogies, some things are difficult either way, and some analogies are difficult. < 1442800590 294741 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, can we agree that an average third grader is mentally incapable of understanding calculus, even if given all the resources needed to understand the things before it? < 1442800621 752558 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more generally, that there's a minimum age that some people are capable of understanding some things? < 1442800635 37334 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no we can't agree on that < 1442800646 116455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I do not know the answers to those questions, although it may also differ by people, not just age, anyways < 1442800649 268796 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: On which one? < 1442800656 344192 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's what I meant < 1442800663 689134 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyword: Average < 1442800687 787251 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way I don't know. (Also the first one you mentioned average, not the second one) < 1442800707 591961 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: In the second one, I said "some people" < 1442800711 592747 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the point is not age, is that to understand some concepts you need this and this and that < 1442800716 813080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but which people? < 1442800724 362855 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mom taught middle school math and the big concept that she tried to make sure everyone understood before they moved on was ratios and proportional relationships < 1442800726 520678 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to take this class and that class etc.. < 1442800746 857873 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: You are probably correct. < 1442800760 802703 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm trying to express that people learn at different rates, and though I'm ready for algebra II now, the people in the middle of the bell curve are not < 1442800773 152156 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Age may have something to do with it possibly, but a lot of other things are more important < 1442800835 48647 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Can we agree on what I just said? Some people are prepared to learn things earlier than others? < 1442800856 953503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That much I can agree with at least < 1442800862 123147 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never < 1442800894 743638 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera? < 1442800905 530177 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tiebreaker < 1442800920 711608 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theology is especially difficult though; I have confused well-educated religious people with it a lot < 1442800936 36142 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah xD < 1442800937 481567 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: go on < 1442800967 186145 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can agree on that though? Person A might be ready to learn something years before Person B? < 1442800997 237255 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ssqappubznuzyqcv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1442801010 952041 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have two more axioms to agree on) < 1442801026 208319 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just take that as a yes then < 1442801035 126601 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how different the human brain was 10000 years ago, but i'm pretty sure they didn't teach multiplication in schools < 1442801051 655346 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :were they incapable of learning it? < 1442801083 93199 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Possibly, but probably not. < 1442801086 469944 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :10,000 years ago? I'd say probably just about the same. < 1442801116 968039 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication is something that I would guess anyone without some serious condition is capable of understanding by third grade < 1442801129 115062 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not by the time they're 3, necessarily < 1442801143 369967 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about learning english? < 1442801166 53481 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, three year olds understand division much more better than multiplication < 1442801175 743977 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :my grandma doesn't speak english, and mine isn't that good < 1442801191 711342 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: What we decide on here will encompass all four major subjects, I assume. We just happen to be focusing on math, as we're all geeks here < 1442801243 963824 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proposition #2: Can it be agreed that there are jobs that one can be good at without understanding calculus that AREN'T just manual labor? < 1442801270 121873 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :they teached me how to play flute < 1442801277 166413 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never needed it past that class < 1442801285 897971 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1442801323 510429 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming is one example of prop #2 < 1442801327 527929 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad's job is definitely a highly skilled occupation, and I don't think he remembers how calculus works. < 1442801334 622036 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proposition #3: Can it be agreed that, though there is most certainly a link, one can be very far to the right on a bell curve in one subject but average or below in another < 1442801356 162241 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Usually, yes. Unless you're at NASA. Then all bets are off. < 1442801397 364162 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's the final proposition, BTW) < 1442801442 972775 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bored waiting, so let's assume the answer is yes. < 1442801453 634449 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem isn't that < 1442801500 712259 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand that the point of schools is to teach everyone the basics of various subjects < 1442801505 741089 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the *basics* < 1442801571 686539 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proposition 1: Some people are ready to learn things earlier than others < 1442801572 156853 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proposition 2: You can get a good job without understanding Advanced Calculus or knowing the hidden meaning of Shakespear or what the Magna Carta was < 1442801572 334808 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proposition 3: One can be good at one subject and average or bad at another < 1442801584 195987 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those all agreeable to you, izabera zzo38 and doesthiswork? < 1442801596 470734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me they are, yes < 1442801621 88761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But izabera even said that isn't the point < 1442801659 802800 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1442801673 377654 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My argument is partially that Calculus isn't necessarily the basics < 1442801696 866346 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on who you are < 1442801700 835557 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork? < 1442801752 390062 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Property 1: The average student takes Calculus in their senior year < 1442801752 705959 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Property 2: Some people are below average < 1442801771 411116 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not going to ask for agreement on those because those are pretty much facts, AFAIK) < 1442801779 250315 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm not really properly participating in the discussion, I'm just taking potshots when it is amusing < 1442801785 802730 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1442801786 465940 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1442801812 167812 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no coherent point to make < 1442801832 180904 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem 1: Some people aren't ready to learn Calculus by their senior year (Property 1+Property 2+Proposition 3) < 1442801856 357138 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old are people in their senior year? < 1442801880 343608 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no senior year here < 1442801901 775759 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corrolary to Theorem 1: Those people can still do well in life (Proposition 2) < 1442801908 642192 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: 17-18 I believe < 1442801939 185861 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's my entire argument < 1442801949 442564 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corrolary to Theorem 1 is the best I've got < 1442801954 469701 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they can still do well in life < 1442801966 162832 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what people did in 1500 when calculus didn't exist < 1442801979 658426 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't think izabera was necessarily arguing that every one should be required to take calculus < 1442802002 672490 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was objecting to you drawing the line by difficulty < 1442802009 690089 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Well, to be fair, people did well in life when math barely existed back when we were cavemen. You can't do well in life with no understanding of math now. < 1442802046 196761 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm arguing that Calculus is not necessary if you're not good at calculus because Property 3: People tend to want to do things they're good at < 1442802073 462771 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm pretty sure that's a thing. Let me leave science for a minute and check what Sociology has to say) < 1442802126 151870 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, don't go check, that breaks the rules of discussion. < 1442802131 662289 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I give up. Don't know where to find documents on that. < 1442802166 196733 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: I'm pretty sure that the rules of Internet Debate are that if you don't check that you're right when you're unsure, you're an idiot and shouldn't be debating < 1442802190 611567 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No: "if you don't know, make it up". < 1442802213 662388 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'mma release the first version of my font since I switched away from fontstruct soon < 1442802286 205357 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I think I like this format. It seems much more effective a form of arguing to establish a list of propositions and properties and making sure everyone's on the same page prior to starting your argument < 1442802314 435268 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN making your argument in the form of theorems, lemmas, and conjectures < 1442802331 178022 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an conjecture? < 1442802342 279978 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't like this format as you're not proving anything < 1442802352 483062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1005 < 1442802354 184279 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1005: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti < 1442802368 882257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't we have this olist days ago? < 1442802419 167536 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this that manual rss feed again? < 1442802434 47300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i must have missed it then... < 1442802434 225394 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@173-164-145-244-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442802455 863657 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Why yes it is < 1442802506 724360 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I suppose your'e not proving anything, but it seems more clear and concise, and it eliminates the factor of the 2+ parties having completely different view on how this works < 1442802545 766652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm i suspect evil durkon may have made a mistake killing too many of the maintenance people... < 1442802548 474456 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write up a standard for this debate form < 1442802601 893318 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember where the link to the standards site is < 1442802799 267401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: i think that's not necessarily what's happening at all. people aren't _really_ agreeing, they're _tentatively_ agreeing in order to continue the discussion. that's because the propositions you pose are not either obviously true or false, nor do we have the skills to easily discern which it is. < 1442802812 202248 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1442802824 744139 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh :/ < 1442802848 757554 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well alternatively, it might be a good way to cheat at arguing xD < 1442802940 587949 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your conclusion is that less credits in each category should be required, right? < 1442803047 938882 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: My conclusion is similar to that. It's that, though you should be required to get a certain amount of credits AND you should be required to get a minimum number of credits in each subject, the minimum in each subject should be lower, and you should have the freedom to choose what you're best at for additional credits < 1442803103 575483 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, instead of 3 in math and 4 in english, perhaps 2 in math and 2 in english, but have the same number of require credits total. That frees people to focus more on what they're good at and doesn't put someone who simply isn't ready to comprehend the mysteries of calculus into a calculus class < 1442803133 445738 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make up my own geometric system. Anyone have any ideas for axioms I could use? < 1442803175 96501 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i suck at math/english/science/geography/history but 'm good at something that's not taught in schools? < 1442803188 397234 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :like playing pokemon < 1442803190 516848 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :あ < 1442803193 782350 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i get credits for that? < 1442803230 598067 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only on the internet < 1442803241 545443 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument for lowering each requirement is that more is unnecessary? < 1442803271 277250 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the argument for requiring a certain amount of credits total? < 1442803323 861773 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: It has to be something that you can actually reasonably get by on in life < 1442803328 553037 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably wrong < 1442803342 589317 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This argument was mostly a channel for me to think about it < 1442803364 390911 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1442803367 475854 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric Geometry < 1442803368 242291 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZH4E8GG9vwm3OelIxjmnyYvjxAOwxGMTEr2ON5tWeSw/edit?usp=sharing < 1442803382 230433 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, can i get credits for plowing a field? < 1442803427 610604 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one of you is currently in the doc? < 1442803440 724728 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i opened the link < 1442803512 77198 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1442803618 339423 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did we move from an irc chat to chat in a google document? < 1442803679 742652 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beacuse cloud computing, internet of thingies, somethingsomething.io < 1442803767 645939 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ is right < 1442803882 588537 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a dimension? < 1442803925 328873 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is is like a parallel universe where women are men and men are women < 1442804002 111435 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: In geometry... a dimension... normal geometry is 2D or sometimes 3D. < 1442804024 137060 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is it? < 1442804029 24996 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to do this before, but we wound up with a bunch of left triangle bullshit. I'm hoping to avoid that this time < 1442804064 395622 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1442804113 278809 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: A dimension is, essentially, a series of (n-1)-dimensional spaces (where n is the number of dimensions in question) along a line that is positioned a right angle to all other dimensions < 1442804115 21267 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess? < 1442804184 81166 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using the word you're defining in the definition < 1442804200 187778 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of other undefined terms < 1442804207 558045 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: It's recursively defined < 1442804209 499580 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1442804227 601359 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I forgot a base case < 1442804237 263721 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1442804238 784516 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, this has been done before < 1442804239 272144 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^c < 1442804247 211714 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it has been < 1442804260 22983 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never comes out as elegant as traditional geometry, but it works < 1442804262 510876 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest you to try to read some past work before trying to reinvent everything < 1442804273 792465 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1442804275 775805 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's not elegant? < 1442804296 403127 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People trying to invent their own geometry < 1442804309 162129 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it never makes much sense < 1442804316 423570 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1442804316 781326 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still technically works < 1442804379 612654 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Do you know of any good sources I could go to to find papers on irregular axiomatic systems in geometry? < 1442804563 374431 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a course about this, it was called "introduction to mathematic thinking" < 1442804599 336730 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more of something that brings students from different schools to a common starting point < 1442804611 390382 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they did stuff in hyperbolic geometry < 1442804620 447772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a English document of "Hina-Di" format? Right now I cannot find any English one nor is the Japanese one accessible < 1442804634 777409 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and euclid and proving simple theorems etc... < 1442804657 972542 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not real need to add buzzwords to make it sound complex because it really isn't < 1442804687 914048 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/not/no/ < 1442804704 129552 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you define your set of rules, then play according to them < 1442804797 343265 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something called taxicab geometry, it's basically discrete geometry < 1442804849 372287 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing is that squares are also circles and the diagonal of a square is 2x its side, etc... < 1442805050 304366 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to make CSS rules that select based on other CSS rules? I want to make a rule that selects on "text-decoration: blink" and animates such elements. I also want to disable all CSS animations that I have not defined myself < 1442805309 438607 :Froox!~Frooxius@172.56.31.40 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442805419 60728 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1442805526 953705 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@173-164-145-244-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1442805647 899 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think so < 1442805671 139233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also want to be able to selectively disable other kind of CSS rules < 1442805671 406591 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can look for css with a user script and then replace it with other css though < 1442805823 823126 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I finally figured out the full incantations and rituals necessary to convert a .bdf font into a .otf font with no blurriness or rounded edges < 1442805851 391157 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to release a font? < 1442805864 514290 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean what happens then? you stop improving it? < 1442805883 684498 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means I upload that version to my sebsite < 1442805900 183764 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will keep working on it until I get tired of doing so < 1442805910 393434 :Froox!~Frooxius@172.56.31.40 QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1442805911 461558 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sebsite/website/ < 1442806805 752763 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1442807133 682418 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :⦀⦁⦂⦃⦄⦅⦆⦇⦈⦉⦊⦋⦌⦍⦎⦏⦐⦑⦒⦓⦔⦕⦖⦗⦘⦙⦚ < 1442807923 275501 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442808270 417882 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1442810167 624471 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other programming languages does OASYS Assembler resemble? I invented a program "OASYS Assembler" for an existing VM but I do not know what other program language it can be said to resemble? It is stack-based but does not have such stack operations as DUP and DROP and SWAP and so on, and unlike Forth the variable address must be pushed first before the value is pushed < 1442810418 838743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1442810442 448010 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1442811407 549946 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442811479 475627 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be a good way to implement a non-stateless lexer-building library/API? < 1442811485 44165 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it even possible? < 1442811501 556491 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how you meant exactly < 1442811606 1155 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, to make a lexer is simple < 1442811648 874616 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just go through the source, matching regexes at the beginning until you run out of code (and moving the "beginning" so it starts after the last token ends) < 1442811654 622065 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you encounter an issue: < 1442811663 40066 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x+(-y) < 1442811689 166505 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're lexing an arithmetical expression, you hit the issue where - can mean subtraction OR a negative number < 1442811706 641883 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I manage a small library that handles lexing for users in a simple way < 1442811718 207686 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know how to implement stated lexing < 1442811720 718996 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas? < 1442811745 624822 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do that after lexing I think? < 1442811765 901805 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else you must tell what it is based on the previous token < 1442811832 865320 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1442811834 629781 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might work < 1442812045 461385 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@172.56.17.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442812988 387337 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@172.56.17.225 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1442814207 427316 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-88-216.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1442815171 613713 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1442815187 363404 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python isn't recognizing the λ character in my regexes OR as a print function < 1442815212 124767 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've tried the obvious workarounds (making python unicode, using chr(0x03BB), etc) < 1442815274 356585 :x10A94!~x10A94@178.252.73.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442816018 600881 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH JOIN :#esoteric < 1442817169 101180 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1442817190 680499 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1442817860 270355 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1442818020 612667 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:cd63:5a07:c3bf:979b JOIN :#esoteric < 1442818020 790666 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:cd63:5a07:c3bf:979b QUIT :Changing host < 1442818020 790730 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442818937 700974 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1442818938 41268 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see the concept of "even" and "odd" expanded to the Complex Numbers < 1442818963 635214 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least the ones where a and b are integers (I forgot their name) < 1442819092 502291 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tl;dr of the whole font fiasco: it is apparently very hard to turn a bitmap into a bunch of straight lines forming a square around each pixel. And, once you've done that, Microsoft Cleartype can't handle turning a square one pixel on a side into one pixel, so you have to include a bitmap showing it how to do it. < 1442819167 459856 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I like, the only person on earth who wants to have a method to do raster -> vector -> raster losslessly? < 1442819349 617633 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1442819593 660087 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the bright side, I now have Hiragana: むめもゃやゅゆょよらりるれろゎわゐゑをんゔ < 1442819673 310699 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OCR is still considered hard < 1442819682 220447 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with low resolution or high noise < 1442819730 578805 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1442820108 408246 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfBBVIoW-68&feature=youtu.be < 1442820376 108117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather you just used bitmap fonts directly though < 1442820399 124548 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore you don't need to do raster->vector->raster < 1442820426 866919 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if windows supported that but it doesn't < 1442820501 242261 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Windows does support bitmap fonts, last time I checked it can but it uses its own format that is not compatible with UNIX < 1442820577 581525 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, I can't seem to create a .fon file with unicode in it < 1442820611 675826 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that format doesn't support Unicode; you need to use your own encodings < 1442820620 730626 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing to try is turn off Cleartype < 1442820878 908079 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I've actually figured out mostly a solution for this problem. < 1442820893 336388 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact that it is necessary at all is stupid < 1442821005 187122 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: oh! so will you add four thousand kanji too? < 1442821025 444683 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1442821037 30314 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: or ten thousand korean syllables. that's probably easier to generate. < 1442821101 262798 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/bdf2otf.htm < 1442821129 344261 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the convoluted process. I've put it online so I can remember it after I finish drawing katakana < 1442821259 91645 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on doing at least the 2000 Joyo kanji eventually < 1442821399 276950 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't plan on doing korean unless I can figure out ow to automate it < 1442821870 379878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: um, why couldn't you automate it? they're made of letters you just have to paste together. < 1442821895 27208 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, 2000 kanji plus extras? wow, great < 1442821939 57920 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1442821977 809906 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget the common punctuation for Japanese too, like the full stop, comma, quotation marks, etc < 1442822101 681916 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1442822177 835980 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily there's not many of them, and they're relatively easy to draw < 1442822182 314663 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially I'll be working up to it being a viable alternative to GNU unifont that isn't fuck-ugly < 1442822204 796043 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-88-216.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1442822221 822929 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hij_arcane! < 1442822400 302288 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, I can't see the font because of some caching stuff < 1442822450 809362 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try refreshing a bunch oif times < 1442822457 367706 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying, yes < 1442822472 517474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a client-side problem < 1442822590 792810 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, glagolitic? seriously? what next, will you be adding old phoenician? < 1442822607 525769 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see the font though < 1442822656 605352 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think the problem may be that only new versions of firefox have support for the css I'm using < 1442822699 522964 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make a second one with different css < 1442822701 35936 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: yes, maybe the problem is that the browser won't show this type of font from the web < 1442822707 69847 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? why a second one? < 1442822710 913598 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :put both of them into the same css < 1442822715 222262 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they fall back < 1442822721 875829 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, web development best practice < 1442822727 605387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't make different versions for different browsers < 1442822799 696651 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put multiple fallback font names to the font-face property < 1442822805 914632 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is this? < 1442822810 528442 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just changed it < 1442822861 948523 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see it yet, but I suspect a client-side problem < 1442822868 253938 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think newer versions of firefox require url("blah") format(opentype) < 1442822894 608252 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they do that? < 1442822947 437984 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno but it wasn;'t working on my win7 firefox withou ti < 1442822948 760676 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try with Chrome < 1442823003 846533 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get it to work, argh < 1442823009 110816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try at home < 1442823018 847079 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah I think I've found an error in a maths book < 1442823024 33909 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks anyway < 1442823025 640381 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do I do now < 1442823045 145786 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: check existing errata, if it's not there, file bug report < 1442823071 715700 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: sadly, lots of publishers don't care an ounce about supporting their already sold books with errata, < 1442823074 813595 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a few are better. < 1442823075 143852 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot find any errata < 1442823104 612514 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Foundation of Mathematics by Ian Stewart and David Tall, Second Edition, Oxford University Press) < 1442823165 201094 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: look at the beginning and end of the book for possible instructions on where to report bugs, failing that, just write to the publisher. you may want to buffer bug reports and send all ones for the same book together though. < 1442823219 194952 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: cannot find anywhere to report bugs < 1442823224 758149 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The publisher over the authors? < 1442823234 10193 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm a slow and easily distracted reader < 1442823481 433526 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'm not sure. If you know the authors in person, it's better to send to them. Otherwise, I'm not sure. < 1442823495 218468 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not < 1442823500 341750 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover might < 1442823511 163452 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he goes to the university where at least one of them teaches, I believe) < 1442823601 921007 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1442823650 36828 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone else have a copy of this book to see if it is in fact an error? < 1442823681 903216 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are two errors I have seen on page 96 < 1442823707 744632 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1442823718 696065 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have that book. < 1442823739 604606 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have read on a few pages, in case there's an explanation later, right? < 1442823793 758074 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives an example of a function "A = all subsets of {0,2,4}, B = N, f(x) = the smallest element of x" < 1442823802 615536 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not defined for x = {} < 1442823850 992604 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1442823860 11773 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It defines a function as "A function f from A to B is a rule that assigns to each a in A a unique element f(a) in B." < 1442824049 621934 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they just forgot to include the word 'non-empty' :P < 1442824070 167386 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ashl: which is still an error! < 1442824229 318176 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other error on the page is it defines the domain of the factorial function as the positive reals < 1442824252 47474 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the question? how to report an erratum? < 1442824260 172380 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1442824275 689608 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whether these are errors first < 1442824347 580470 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1442824746 192392 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first one, yes; for the factorial one, depends how they define it < 1442824857 578739 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't define factorial, anywhere < 1442825149 644322 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can define factorial on the positive real numbers < 1442825175 732481 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i expect they probably meant positive integers < 1442825661 268225 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442825919 565257 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1442826032 110635 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1442826035 857470 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1442826064 437599 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442826066 297098 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1442826226 376813 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think I'll start putting up image-based previews as well from now on < 1442826454 356799 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.png < 1442827442 797977 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know your representations are faithful < 1442827506 734905 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what representations? < 1442827685 711938 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this image is basically a screenshot of the page as it appears on my system < 1442827741 105612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a sign on a fence I see on my commute that says "Danger" and "Deep excavations". I'm worried about a possible balrog threat. < 1442827889 880720 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you for example grow up reading/writing the glagolitic writing system? if not, how do you know it is legible < 1442827912 705364 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dark fire shall not avail you, Flame of Udûn! < 1442828004 788545 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ashl: Oh, for that one none still live who grew up writing it. Anyway most of the non-latin, non-Japanese letterforms are based on PDF's from the Unicode foundation < 1442828068 534163 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only added glagolitic so that I would have the one tht looks like a dick. Ⰴ < 1442828170 572284 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1442828209 282440 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1442828417 993561 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: image! great, thanks < 1442828632 448977 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: for the C64, do you have the left and right diagonally shaded blocks? < 1442828644 435376 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hiragana look nice, meanwhile < 1442828647 738312 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1442828715 394437 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, are they not there right above the hiragana? < 1442828758 500441 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: no, those are diagonal half blocks < 1442828794 955518 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see. I'll add them < 1442828802 520630 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I wonder what that third character in your C64 list is though < 1442828855 617710 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a character that looks like that in the c64 charset, not sure what it is supposed to be < 1442828861 89304 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I think it's club suit < 1442828865 840037 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the C64 set < 1442828877 92765 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 0.3.8" < 1442828878 87631 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also heart suit, diamond suit, and spade suit characters < 1442828885 751400 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you already have those in the font < 1442828974 211594 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume you'll add fullwith katakana later < 1442828995 16691 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah thats the very next thing < 1442829174 730167 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :your script letters beyond t are interesting < 1442829192 645055 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip the slant? < 1442829306 233028 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, the c64 font has the ugliest pi i've ever seen < 1442829670 442499 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1442829998 979012 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: give it a break, they have just an 8x8 cell < 1442830014 203364 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that on bad quality CRTs where pixels are bleeding into one anothers < 1442830141 312173 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an analog signal and all that < 1442830280 296258 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains the thick vertical strokes and thin hrizontal < 1442830446 777571 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1442830585 910770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: At least it's not doing the NTSC composite-signal artifact color thing. < 1442830627 891835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_artifact_colors that thing < 1442830739 527392 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1442830974 994082 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442831102 241999 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what? the C64 is a color monitor, it does behave bad for some color combinations < 1442831144 669181 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you have a color monitor that is < 1442831151 549254 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've run it with black and green monitors < 1442831238 165022 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god did these people in the 80's even think about what an ASS this would be to write an emulator for? < 1442831253 366446 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: hehe... probably no < 1442831279 385745 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: are you trying to emulate the sprite collision detection in the video hardware? the C64 has it too, just like the Atari < 1442831353 765195 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't wirtten a C64 emulator myself but thisngs like this are scaring me even further from it < 1442831399 386118 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really 80's programmers scare me in general < 1442831428 754884 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using these hardware-software hack tricks to create effects < 1442831512 199577 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess cleartype is similar but noone to my knowledge makes color fonts by using 1/3 pixel lines and shit < 1442831625 325464 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are C64 emulators ready to use, I wouldn't attempt to write a new one. < 1442831660 522421 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware-software hack tricks? Like the unreliable casette drive, which actually works better when emulated, because it reads back the signals it wrote perfectly? < 1442831730 224427 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the casette drive involves the cpu too much for our 2000s tastes. It's like "winmodems". < 1442831739 172206 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only it's much more well-documented. < 1442831759 558136 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have analyzed and debugged the rom listings a lot, and reproduced everything.. < 1442831806 948155 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they use an error correcting code on the casette drive then? < 1442831921 232571 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the details, luckily. < 1442831945 146014 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too young for this. < 1442832852 717307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I just mean, the C64 colors are "real", it doesn't do the "let's have a monochrome signal and then turn on the NTSC colorburst so that some bit patterns get interpreted as color" thing, Apple II style. Sure, it's still all smeared up, but anyway. < 1442832934 573989 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ReThue14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44318&oldid=42287 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+53) 10 < 1442832943 67851 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ReThue14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44320&oldid=44318 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (-53) 10 < 1442832965 192646 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ReThue14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44321&oldid=44320 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+21) 10 < 1442834770 479658 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah < 1442834804 125934 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't a monochrome signal with tricks how analog color TV is always supposed to work in first place? < 1442834896 674289 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, if you like to see it that way. But on the C64 the video hardware is at least thinking about color separately, you've got palettes and all that. < 1442835071 805352 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: BUZZER CHICKEN < 1442835544 300055 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man no matter what settings I use for Cleartype (other than "off") it always looks blurry. cleartype can go suck a Ⰴ < 1442835642 461007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a 90-degree pivoted monitor, and even after telling the system about it, any sort of subpixel-based antialiasing just looked sucky on that thing. < 1442835757 383930 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: BBS < 1442835845 487704 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should really be called foggytype < 1442835985 341527 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hfvwzvgasvkdabgn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cataractishtype < 1442838003 448673 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-88-216.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805] < 1442838306 218858 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-88-216.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1442839807 309735 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1442841429 513799 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442841941 556410 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1442843353 234414 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442843532 851070 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1442844504 292669 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1442845149 469583 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1442845539 551402 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442846588 894056 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one more day until NEET < 1442846717 500288 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(strictly speaking it's two more weeks but I have to use up the rest of my vacation) < 1442846834 645170 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hkgit03: where do you live? < 1442846844 446235 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1442847049 409995 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: south west Germany < 1442847073 194429 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any jobs there seeing as I live in north England < 1442847077 875924 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And am a student < 1442847087 967633 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a student for two more weeks :D < 1442847101 563440 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then my contract is over < 1442847161 946706 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's what is called a "dual study". One studies and works alternately) < 1442847317 939896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1442847325 741015 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1442847700 460830 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442848499 525318 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-218-160.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1442848557 483931 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-88-216.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1442848568 887241 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-218-160.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1442848650 123767 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heading home. See ya o7 < 1442848696 801302 :hkgit03!c100f8f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.0.248.241 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1442848766 134179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's abbreviated git commit hash: a1aeaea. < 1442848860 444857 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1442848873 983398 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1442848912 799082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What are the chances of that!" < 1442848914 348201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 over 2^28.) < 1442848950 697591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1442848980 895285 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH JOIN :#esoteric < 1442849000 284289 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: compare that to how many git commits there are a day < 1442849516 809641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] I would like to see the concept of "even" and "odd" expanded to the Complex Numbers <-- it turns out that "divisible by 1+i" is the same as "a+b even" while "divisible by 2" is the same as "a _and_ b even" choose wisely hth < 1442849516 987559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1442849608 601482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait is the first right < 1442849636 969430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] hm wait, not sure about the first two < 1442849637 147485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1442849674 528823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] now sure again hth < 1442849674 706968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1442851163 256295 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you limit the speed when you're copying a file? < 1442851171 451026 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like in c < 1442851181 391469 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you sleep for a while after each read and write? < 1442851195 808223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :c: always the speed limit < 1442851283 124080 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think that izabera meant c as in the speed of light < 1442851329 916074 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :c the programming language <.< < 1442851362 652751 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it doesn't have to be c, i'm just asking for the technique < 1442851459 304724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you're supposed to groan not explain hth < 1442851478 374519 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: why do you need to < 1442851485 751788 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my apologies < 1442851501 577730 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't, i'm just interested in learning how to do it < 1442851559 814562 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean sleeping between after writing the data can work i think, not sure if it's the standard way or if there's a better way < 1442851775 493873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1006 < 1442851776 316333 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1006: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti < 1442851818 287581 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I think I've read the source for either wget's or curl's rate limiting (for sockets, not files, but it's pretty much the same), and IIRC it was pretty much just about sleeping. < 1442851839 384044 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1442852839 522397 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1442853322 530154 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1442855212 511599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1442855371 728513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1442856846 672184 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442858320 343130 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1442859494 497684 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wkognfnllvcyedpr JOIN :#esoteric < 1442859671 116891 :MDream!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1442860367 326829 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: BBL < 1442860387 882950 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, can't the concept of even and odd be extended to most algebraic numbers? < 1442860511 884685 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think here's how you do it. < 1442860548 422016 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1442860744 660827 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, here's part of it. < 1442860801 304087 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a polynomial's leading coefficient is odd, and the sum of its non-constant coefficients is odd, then its roots have the same parity as its constant coefficient. < 1442860847 921752 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1442860957 980735 :vifino!vifino@tty.sh QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1442860968 324598 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't quite sound right. A polynomial can have roots that aren't all the same parity. < 1442860978 891817 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like x^2 - 5x + 6. < 1442861016 45430 :vifino!vifino@tty.sh JOIN :#esoteric < 1442862265 601928 :Bjarne_!cca9512f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.169.81.47 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442862276 410596 :Bjarne_!cca9512f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.169.81.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh Hello < 1442862381 163672 :Bjarne_!cca9512f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.169.81.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the heck are all the IRC channels I join so quiet? < 1442862389 971675 :Bjarne_!cca9512f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.169.81.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#fsharp is quiet < 1442862408 911328 :Bjarne_!cca9512f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.169.81.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and others too < 1442862546 287378 :Bjarne_!cca9512f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.169.81.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1442862549 925956 :Bjarne_!cca9512f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.169.81.47 QUIT :Client Quit < 1442862553 52012 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1442862579 565482 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442862648 51321 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you joined at the wrong time < 1442862977 669105 :lemurian!~sh4n3@unaffiliated/lemurian JOIN :#esoteric < 1442863030 449949 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1442863243 564808 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-80.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1442864433 899937 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1442864688 992756 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-80.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> b) -> (c -> d) < 1442864700 81402 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-80.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that about first-class citizens < 1442864758 995639 :vifino!vifino@tty.sh QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1442864971 38536 :vifino!vifino@tty.sh JOIN :#esoteric < 1442864971 255088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Wasn't the first time they complained about the lack of talking. < 1442865102 367135 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Rs14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44322 5* 0363.232.95.4 5* (+332) 10Created < 1442865218 311876 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442865401 303164 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1442865540 657520 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I would like to see is open-source game engine of the style like Apogee's "Pharaoh's Tomb" and "Arctic Adventure", with four-colour graphics, the unusual (but good) control scheme it uses, similar kind of sound effect, etc but some improvements could also be made such as a level editor, more difficult levels, time limits, and more kind of pieces < 1442865799 423096 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-80.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1442865826 382492 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did even mention a sequel which they never made as far as I can tell. (One about a journey to the center of the Earth) < 1442866225 122690 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Rs14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44323&oldid=44322 5* 03Kirbyfan64sos 5* (+77) 10 < 1442866381 779023 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Rs14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44324&oldid=44323 5* 0363.232.95.4 5* (+0) 10 < 1442866437 444835 :lemurian!~sh4n3@unaffiliated/lemurian QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1442867617 686369 :x10A94!~x10A94@178.252.73.97 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1442868349 857863 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1442869240 810668 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1442869863 310337 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1442870292 450113 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1442870669 488932 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1442871008 464530 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1442871197 411240 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wkognfnllvcyedpr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1442871222 437680 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1442871423 706733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1442871740 999269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : That doesn't quite sound right. A polynomial can have roots that aren't all the same parity. <-- i think you need the polynomial to be irreducible, i.e. not a product of two others < 1442871768 120702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then maybe it works < 1442871800 744702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that (x^2 - 5x + 6) = (x - 2)*(x - 3) < 1442871831 994409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you get only the product of parities otherwise < 1442871893 932553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i believe there's a concept of roots of polynomials with 1 as leading coefficient being more "integer-like" (i've forgotten the actual term) < 1442871903 753578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1442871924 186982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_integer < 1442872094 181771 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try figuring out whether w = e^{i 2pi/3} is odd or even. Note that w^2 + w = -1... < 1442872135 83633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well by tswett's definition, that's odd... < 1442872167 753579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the parity of the constant coefficient < 1442872177 184650 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :really ... are you looking at x^3-1 or at x^2+x+1? < 1442872186 888878 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1442872192 614566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter, although in this case it doesn't matter < 1442872205 572206 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so two odd numbers no longer add to an even number < 1442872217 156603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1442872221 443740 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even numbers should definitely be closed under addition. < 1442872231 43558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there may be a problem :P < 1442872234 65211 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any definition which doesn't satisfy that criterion is wrong. < 1442872279 731477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er but need odd numbers sum to even ones >:) < 1442872293 733730 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1442872312 267500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that example is almost designed to break that, no matter what you choose < 1442872339 575486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because w^2 + w + 1 = 0 has w^2 as a solution too) < 1442872402 616449 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, right, if the leading coefficient is 1, and the constant term is odd, then the roots must all be odd... right? < 1442872412 279291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1442872425 835766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note i haven't seen this concept defined that i can recall < 1442872426 13783 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1442872426 13853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1442872433 450037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except by you < 1442872562 388055 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that would imply that the roots of w^2 + w + 1 are all odd. < 1442872572 990603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let w = exp(0 :+ 2*pi/3) in (w^2 + w + 1, w^4 + w^2 + 1) --checking < 1442872574 635735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0.0 :+ 3.3306690738754696e-16,4.440892098500626e-16 :+ 5.551115123125783e-16) < 1442872579 629601 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But by inspection, you can tell that the sum of the roots is -1 (since the w coefficient is 1), and there are two roots. < 1442872605 481146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right that's another way < 1442872659 329565 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would seem to imply that the sum of two odd numbers can now be odd. < 1442872671 703880 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure I actually want to assign a parity to w at all. < 1442872682 306476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tricky < 1442872688 303831 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The polynomial w^2 + w + 1 = 0 has no solutions modulo 2. < 1442872730 217858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1442872755 210657 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What extension does Esolangs use for the better editing window? < 1442872776 95005 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we should assign parity in exactly those situations where, modulo 2, the polynomial factors as x^a (x - 1)^b. < 1442872810 554080 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which certainly excludes most polynomials. < 1442872843 265167 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd also want the degree to be a + b, to ensure that the leading x term doesn't vanish modulo 2. < 1442872879 597840 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what to do in the case where a and b are both positive. < 1442872918 809046 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You seem to be qualified to answer these things < 1442872940 822116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: i _seem_, but i'm not. < 1442872953 944439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask ais523 or fizzie < 1442873005 649445 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you on? < 1442873010 142845 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This definition of parity may or may not work. < 1442873146 950620 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the two roots of x^2 + x + 2 add to -1. (a = 1, b = 1) < 1442873157 239351 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this effectively entails that w is half of an odd number, because 2w satisfies the polynomial (2w)^2 + 2(2w) + 4 = 0, which, modulo 2, taking 2w as a primitive variable, is simply (2w)^2. < 1442873167 135174 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say odd? < 1442873191 746069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: erm... < 1442873214 250781 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a and b are the exponents introduced by tswett above < 1442873217 170941 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the roots < 1442873238 641998 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's apparently half of an even number, without actually being an odd number. < 1442873252 517741 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1442873292 538950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll hazard a guess twice any number is even hth < 1442873307 30299 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about twice half an odd number? < 1442873314 731062 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 2 and a half < 1442873334 324035 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1442873339 140662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "number" i mean a number given by an integral polynomial with odd leading coefficient < 1442873342 237360 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why guess? if p(x) of degree n has root x, then 2^n p(x/2) has root 2x... and many even coefficients < 1442873344 162 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1442873372 864833 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact, 2^n p(x/2) = x^n (mod 2)) < 1442873373 267679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to double it, you just double the second coefficient, quadruple the third, etc. afaics < 1442873394 461044 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like int-e proved it. < 1442873396 94444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leaves x^n = 0 (mod 2) < 1442873399 157520 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1442873399 501550 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1442873403 549832 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1442873405 727715 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classes ended < 1442873405 905662 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boom. Twice any algebraic integer is even. < 1442873416 206631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: YOU WILL BE SORRY < 1442873443 640070 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, what happens when you substitute (x+1) for x? What happens to the coefficients and whatnot? < 1442873444 577099 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That was like that trope in TV and Movies where they're too lazy to invent a joke so they JUST include the punchine < 1442873457 814880 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie? < 1442873485 71085 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this always end up flipping the parity? < 1442873496 220016 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442873530 254006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: was it you i @told about 1 + i as divisor, that's then sort of intermediate for gaussian integers < 1442873532 454856 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fizzie isn't answering. Anyone else I could ask? < 1442873543 659270 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wasn't me, I'm pretty sure. < 1442873547 489724 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a special page on what extensions the wiki uses or something? < 1442873556 491102 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think that was me < 1442873558 348479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: ais523 is the "wikipedia expert" in my mind, although he may be a bit dated < 1442873568 349192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], one of these http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages < 1442873568 576886 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1442873576 164306 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I tried that < 1442873581 272072 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not very hard < 1442873595 130324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Version < 1442873598 625998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: well then, note that (1 + i)(1 - i) = 2 so 1 + i divides 2 in the gaussians, so you get at least two possible definitions of "even" there < 1442873653 118446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what's the polynomial for 1 +- i < 1442873668 144663 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. For x^2 + bx + c, if b = 0 and c = 0, the roots are even; if b = 0 and c = 1, the roots are odd; if b = 1 and c = 0, one root is odd and the other is even; if b = 1 and c = 1, no parity is assigned. < 1442873691 351281 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: x^2 - 2x + 2 < 1442873699 640072 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^2 - 2x + 2. < 1442873704 985311 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed it before int-e hit enter; hth. < 1442873710 964197 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442873718 965243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _meant_ it as a rhetorical question, but thanks :P < 1442873721 881637 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the roots are even. < 1442873724 665698 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :os < 1442873776 462821 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: almost trivially, if p(x) = x^n (mod 2) then p(x+1) = (x+1)^n (mod 2) < 1442873783 712153 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1442873787 873232 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1442873792 226849 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: doink, you're right. < 1442873796 781925 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it doesn't use an extension < 1442873799 862010 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's CSS? < 1442873804 166758 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm liking this definition I came up with. < 1442873813 285038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], what are you trying to unravel < 1442873837 363526 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442873839 354481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: i think substituting x+1 for x will not change the leading coefficient and will flip the parity of the constant one, but the rest might depend. < 1442873841 256668 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I just set up a (second) wiki locally, and when I created the main page, the editor was different. And the differntness was ugly < 1442873852 623404 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*differentness < 1442873950 265611 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, do we need to limit this definition to algebraic integers? < 1442874057 282271 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking we can't apply it to all algebraic numbers. < 1442874069 220020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait not sure of my last statement < 1442874076 564611 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe we can. < 1442874092 487466 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have already restricted it to those whose minimal polynomials factor nicely modulo 2... haven't you < 1442874104 130108 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1442874121 310821 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the definition doesn't apply to 2x - 1 = 0 by virtue of the fact that the polynomial modulo 2, which is 1, doesn't have enough factors. < 1442874134 57551 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition automatically fails for all even leading coefficients. < 1442874144 653761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: i think it's somewhat analogous to in the rational numbers, where you cannot sensibly assign evenness to p/q if q is even < 1442874153 429957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but might if q is odd < 1442874171 839233 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for all rational numbers irreducibly written as p/q, if q is odd, then it gets the parity of p. < 1442874177 640940 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :If q is even, it gets no parity. < 1442874178 749862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1442874237 609428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: obviously the person i _really_ would ask is elliott, but he hasn't been in the channel since May. < 1442874245 813289 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :/ < 1442874256 853973 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making yet another "ALL THE MATHS" website < 1442874259 987781 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hasn't? Tdnh. < 1442874276 156603 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, at least for now or in part, using a MediaWiki for it < 1442874293 384338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did sort of imply to me that he might stop visiting before that, though. < 1442874385 623922 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :תדנה < 1442874391 793360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and accidentally showed up on the wiki in july or so < 1442874452 252328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ok how does google translate know that means tdnh < 1442874479 860752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode תדנה < 1442874480 754472 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+05EA HEBREW LETTER TAV] [U+05D3 HEBREW LETTER DALET] [U+05E0 HEBREW LETTER NUN] [U+05D4 HEBREW LETTER HE] < 1442874490 5880 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: by the fact that those are Hebrew letters which have Latin equivalents? < 1442874529 427070 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-93.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Quit: WALRUS MAAAAAAAAAAAAN < 1442874551 169635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: but hebrew is the _one_ language where i wouldn't expect interpretation as acronym... < 1442874580 496164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't include the vowels < 1442874639 612939 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, what did you expect GT to produce? < 1442874679 619022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some actual word < 1442874691 544465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you get if you remove any single of those letters < 1442874699 739751 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ok, I believe your notion of even and odd numbers works out (i.e. addition and multiplication work out as expected) ... following along the lines of proving that the algebraic numbers are closed under addition and multiplication. < 1442874766 367272 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] wiki css is in one of the pages listed here if you want to copy it http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=&to=&namespace=8 < 1442874766 545452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1442874794 298378 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we get a funny subring of the algebraic numbers that enjoy parity. < 1442874806 928798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : The definition automatically fails for all even leading coefficients. <-- hm are you sure? you could say the _first_ even coefficient counts as leading after (mod 2)... < 1442874832 32582 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but the definition explicitely forbade that < 1442874859 777694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *odd < 1442874882 997567 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, as an afterthought at least) < 1442874946 764415 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftr, I'm using: "z is even if it is the root of a polynomial p in Z[x] of degree n with p(x) = x^n (mod 2); z is odd if z+1 is even" < 1442874985 625204 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can restrict the first part to minimal polynomials; it makes no difference) < 1442875059 275862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh you're saying that these form a subring? < 1442875069 978746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of both odds and evens < 1442875129 371617 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's just the evens + integers < 1442875136 822853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the evens are themselves a ring < 1442875144 895194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without unity) < 1442875184 36675 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I'm saying that. < 1442875283 102697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 +- i are a examples of even numbers that are _not_ twice an algebraic integer. < 1442875286 795541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-a < 1442875329 188621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect with higher degree you can get things that aren't 1+i times one, either < 1442875351 744897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^n + 2(x^(n-1) + ... + 1) = 0, perhaps < 1442875383 28195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1442875390 747329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^2 - 2 = 0 < 1442875420 434646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sqrt(2) is in there < 1442875435 645361 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the definition says a + b has to equal the degree. < 1442875451 227705 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess is effectively the same as saying the leading coefficient has to be odd. < 1442875526 679040 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(2) is even? I was expecting it to have no parity. < 1442875564 32625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: um i think int-e assumed either a or b is 0, for what he said < 1442875573 8685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the parity if neither is 0 < 1442875660 558136 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's why I mentioned x^2 + x + 2 earlier; the two roots add to an odd number... < 1442875681 870536 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they shouldn't be assigned a parity < 1442875705 128833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1442875846 57653 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :My definition claimed that for x^2 + x + 2, one root is even and the other is odd. < 1442875851 402818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] i suspect it might be this extension which was listed on our version page https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiEditor < 1442875851 580731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1442875873 885635 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't make much sense, since the roots are complex conjugates. < 1442875896 201172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsensible < 1442875898 227343 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're in a quantum superposition of even and odd, the two of them being entangled at opposite parities hth? < 1442875928 265315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good. now you're thinking with quantum. < 1442876016 357228 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1442876017 447528 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :burma/ask Bike < 1442876025 183808 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Bike burma? < 1442876025 361760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1442876073 958398 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask for four more pieces of wisdom and then delete one. < 1442876088 209926 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1442876089 544423 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$1?/$1? ��\(��_o)/�� < 1442876103 570707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike's away message is disturbing tdnh < 1442876141 939377 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: what encoding is that? < 1442876163 870965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened there... < 1442876177 469339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/wisdom < 1442876178 146365 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl < 1442876186 107539 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo wisdom/\$* < 1442876187 10532 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/$1? < 1442876191 3803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fnørd < 1442876191 826714 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnørd? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1442876200 91502 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat wisdom/\$* < 1442876200 881445 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$1? ��\(��_o)/�� < 1442876207 584343 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm wisdom/\$* < 1442876209 563718 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1442876241 421992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/\$* < 1442876243 732068 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1442876252 648991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg log --removed wisdom/'$1?' | grep summary: < 1442876254 98559 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :summary: ` rm wisdom/\\$* \ summary: revert accbc9c5c7ec \ summary: echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ summary: revert \ summary: revert 1 \ summary: revert \ summary: for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ summary: revert \ summary: revert 1 \ summary: revert \ summary: for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ summary: revert 87c64ef250a0 \ summary: revert 3 \ summary: learn $1? \xef\xbf\xbd\xef\xbf\xbd\\(\xef\xbf\xbd\xef\xbf\xbd_o)/\xef\xbf < 1442876282 577524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike! < 1442876294 77100 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course that leaves the question whether the subring is the largest possible one... < 1442876300 807358 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: go on, @ask about it ;-) < 1442876306 76033 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aleph null hth. < 1442876340 809604 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: w.r.t. the subset relation, not cardinality < 1442876359 102183 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a total order hth. < 1442876376 37164 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I guess "largest" makes perfect sense for a partial order. < 1442876416 385239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was young i used to confuse "burma" and "bursa" tdnh < 1442876434 713660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myansar < 1442876498 988043 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, sleep < 1442876622 802880 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: BACKTRACK CHICKEN < 1442876656 541281 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442876694 150054 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm-a-back! < 1442876788 611002 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not answering what? < 1442876950 296333 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], wiki css is in one of the pages listed here if you want to copy it http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=&to=&namespace=8 < 1442876958 631663 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard < 1442877076 60000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually thinking of bumping the version from 1.22 to 1.25 real soon now; but today was unexpectedly busy. < 1442877143 341306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i suspect it was that extension i saw in your linked Version page < 1442877186 315816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded like hppavilion[1] installed it but it looked like shit so he was trying to get our formatting as well < 1442877206 263455 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in the edit window < 1442877222 373749 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's currently kind of ugly. Squares buttons. Bleck. < 1442877236 527079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1442877278 381743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: do you have the same skin (vector iirc)? < 1442877321 861221 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I believe so. fizzie: Do you know if the "vector" skin has been modified from its default version? < 1442877478 401533 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Phantom_Hoover: Looks like the page where Vector.css is stored doesn't contain the whole thing < 1442877500 155665 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tried common.css? < 1442877543 310438 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1442877552 764822 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vector.css is a BIG(-ish) folder < 1442877557 743439 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.css// < 1442877572 837581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: do you have the same preferences settings on both wikis? < 1442877605 915203 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure. I don't think I ever changed preferences on either one, but there might be irregular default preferences on esolangs < 1442877625 354077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the editing preferences tab, i guess < 1442877679 702114 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1442877695 282359 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like there's some weird stuff going on with the way the main page looks < 1442877825 396239 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1442877831 935521 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs is Public Domain < 1442877898 903342 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering using some of the site's content (e.g. the main page's layout and formatting) on my own (CC-BY-SA) wiki < 1442877931 627886 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will < 1442878015 5972 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: As far as I know, LocalSettings.php is the only modified file we have. < 1442878020 73049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest is all in the database. < 1442878022 401280 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1442878036 486940 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's some CSS tweakery that has been done. < 1442878114 919943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the skin, LocalSettings.php seems to have $wgVectorUseSimpleSearch = true; set. < 1442878127 177912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about it. < 1442878355 527816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's just a result of gradual upgrade since 2005 or thereabouts < 1442878415 474344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now we have a nice upgraded style, while all the new design are crap, pretty much like the web in general hth < 1442878430 190565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1442878456 264437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably break it by updating to 1.25. < 1442878462 74469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn. < 1442878496 12450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too plausible given everything else that's been broken^Wredesigned this year < 1442879345 823376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* what happened to microsoft's monthly updates < 1442879373 517162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the part where they only happened once a month. < 1442879567 540964 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1442879593 334598 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1442879601 32124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer