< 1443052858 30185 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go is insane. < 1443052885 888828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443052894 53601 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443052914 584697 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: you should also 鹽, because density. < 1443053021 553744 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I dunno what that one means < 1443053072 468679 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the traditional version of "salt". < 1443053341 869241 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps go with 鬱? < 1443053355 133688 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious how far you can go with you font metrics. < 1443053389 848237 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443053390 91306 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443053435 322758 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443053435 694446 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443053455 685814 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy, add a bunch of noise < 1443053869 838014 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly all Asian languages should switch to hangul < 1443053946 81775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443054205 570117 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hangul is cool, but I wouldn't be in this channel if I liked sensible standardization < 1443054270 275516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443054306 74911 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443054685 474630 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dhelloesthiswork! < 1443054708 721013 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FrelloeFull, mynamello. < 1443054777 384161 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443054853 384541 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1443054866 295994 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1443054906 423590 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a very variable morpheme you're adding < 1443054962 530799 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[he]llo < 1443054978 947122 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :porthelloing people requires flexibility and complete disregard to common grammar courtesy. < 1443055022 570291 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: he only added hell to my name < 1443055465 316757 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Hi < 1443055683 639745 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1443056357 605824 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a situation be made up out of Magic: the Gathering cards where the colorful mana cost of a delve spell is removed? < 1443056415 424425 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44374&oldid=44220 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+98) 10/* A (horribly slow) 16-bit Brainf*** interpreter */ < 1443056625 630424 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me to see if I can figure out by myself, but anyone else who know answer can also answer < 1443056768 234638 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea for an esolang < 1443056783 99 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: COUNTERINTELLIGENCE CHICKEN < 1443056786 157013 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very abstract though and I don't know how to concretely define its behavior < 1443056805 990568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what things do you know about it? < 1443056901 463006 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's called analogy:simile ("Analogy is to simile") < 1443056914 684464 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on, for lack of a better word AFAIK, analogy clauses < 1443056930 632839 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They gave them to us when I was in 4th-5th grade, I think < 1443056945 106755 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were usually questions that looked like this: < 1443056961 995169 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :triangle:shape::red:_____ < 1443056977 287496 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Triangle is to Shape as red is to what?") < 1443057016 187283 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :color < 1443057024 617516 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION solves all the quizzes < 1443057129 885533 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what those things are called? < 1443057171 673285 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :analogies? < 1443057213 322202 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are, but I have a feeling they have a more specific name < 1443057221 993610 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analogy clauses perhaps? < 1443057296 447575 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a very interesting language. < 1443057347 155599 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you come up with some examples of things you could do with it? < 1443057349 658042 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1443057365 357735 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find what it's called (or even a wiki article on it) < 1443057373 29254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : are you kinda bummed about the double slit being solved? <-- * me is kinda bummed that no one in the log discussion provided a link to wth this is about < 1443057375 936603 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm calling it an "Analogy Clause" < 1443057404 37885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443057487 234780 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: I think that, in my current idea, it'd be based on OO and machine learning < 1443057496 724255 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use Pybrain to implement it, most likely < 1443057512 666951 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implementation doesn't really matter yet. < 1443057514 155857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy#Identity_of_relation calls them "analogy questions" including the quotes < 1443057517 132823 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't < 1443057560 34633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and Aristotelian format < 1443057563 553951 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am curious to see some handwavy example programs < 1443057638 75575 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1443057651 239177 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do some uber-tentative BNF < 1443057685 107410 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x:5::12:13 might be a way to set x to 4 < 1443057708 819333 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to 5-(1/12) < 1443057717 914037 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to a million other possible things < 1443057728 81672 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Basically, do you know Haskell's infinite list notation? < 1443057734 563051 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1443057767 245949 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine if someone put too much effort into making it so that could recognize the Fibonacci sequence or a million other sequences automagically < 1443057782 216757 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is basically the core feature of this language if it follows my current idea set < 1443057801 252394 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1, 1, 2, 3..] < 1443057810 7131 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1, 2, 4, 8..] < 1443057815 681703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1, 2, 4, 8 < 1443057825 770971 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it would always choose the simplest sequence) < 1443057832 206967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with lambdabot < 1443057833 127137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `oeis' failed with: <> < 1443057843 925210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,2,4,8 < 1443057844 700433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Powers of 2: a(n) = 2^n.[1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16... < 1443057845 859181 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :X:0::+:1::*:2::^:3 < 1443057861 358359 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1443057872 580378 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh < 1443057875 378551 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyperoperations < 1443057877 771338 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that would derive zeration < 1443057888 307395 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zeration? < 1443057888 485853 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,2,4,8,16,31 < 1443057890 239418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pentanacci numbers: a(n) = a(n-1)+a(n-2)+a(n-3)+a(n-4)+a(n-5), a(0)=a(1)=a(2... < 1443057915 134493 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,2,4,8,16,33 < 1443057916 646737 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Generalized Catalan numbers: a(n+1) = a(n) + Sum_{k=2..n-1} a(k)a(n-1-k).[1,... < 1443057951 678982 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-150-186.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,2,4,8,15,32 < 1443057953 214838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Factorial splitting: write n! = x*y*z with x im really disliking this whole heavy stuff on a blanket model <-- you'll be happy to know that's not really part of GR then, but a ridiculously oversimplifying analogy that GR experts also hate hth < 1443058163 979816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443058165 911356 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zeration, that is < 1443058193 691160 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar but with some odd twists < 1443058356 450599 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Such as? < 1443058381 544734 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.eretrandre.org/tetrationforum/showthread.php?tid=122 < 1443058455 433199 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the successor function only takes one argument < 1443058500 562136 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1443058681 349058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/147989/what-is-the-proper-plural-form-of-apparatus <-- huh the top answer to that question is by peter shor. yes, that one. < 1443058858 684230 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Someone should define "Zhₙ(a, b) ∀(n, a, b) ∋ ℂ" where "Zhₙ(a, b)" is an extended hyperoperation function < 1443058959 132846 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1443058968 874626 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see I've left you all in a speechless terror < 1443059028 464333 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: being a famous personality does not help to resist the power of the Hot Network Questions link box. < 1443059049 839497 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just be cald I said ℂ instead of ℍ < 1443059055 176734 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*glad < 1443059261 555858 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :is R[X]/(X^2 + 1) equivalent to the complex numbers < 1443059264 920199 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote that we make up a fictional Mathemetician and attribute all humorous mathematical "discoveries" we make on this channel to him < 1443059277 120983 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: I have no idea < 1443059277 299094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also had an interesting comment on a later answer, did you know "syllabus" comes from an ancient misspelling? < 1443059284 170103 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird < 1443059298 235766 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I choose the mathemetician's surname? < 1443059320 829029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only conclude peter shor knows his latin. < 1443059322 165254 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1443059328 718081 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mathametician. Or is it? < 1443059343 780548 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't spell words that sound too hambiguous xD < 1443059371 267967 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :math e mat ician < 1443059396 20005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1443059399 65179 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443059401 311849 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry! < 1443059423 659284 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i was right! < 1443059445 15957 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the quotient ring thingy. but also about how to spell mathematician imo < 1443059446 249533 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :English isn't my strongest subject (hence the fact that I had to rephrase the previous sentence so I could spell it properly) < 1443059485 222038 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can we have our own Patrom Math e mat ician? < 1443059489 78422 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Patron < 1443059492 593393 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443059497 795109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: well bourbaki and bovik are taken hth < 1443059500 449115 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, adu! < 1443059516 187198 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :should start with "bow" < 1443059536 627901 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to make his last name "Notta", famous for his "Notta Number Systems", a set of number systems where n/0 is defined < 1443059538 994438 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1443059582 560233 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though we could do mauris's idea, too < 1443059621 691143 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-150-186.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That latin plural question reminded me of the thing where in German sometimes to form the plural of foreign words like that, we strip off the ending and then add a German plural ending -en. < 1443059661 49013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: well norwegian does that with e.g. "museum" -> "museer" < 1443059688 616198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's not that common, though. < 1443059700 44600 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what is Mdr. Notta's first name? < 1443059706 163333 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1443059710 295221 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: hi < 1443059717 367890 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: again < 1443059754 60940 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-150-186.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Museum → Museen, but the one that prompted my reminding was Stadion → Stadien < 1443059756 12254 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: I'm trying to get the channel a fictional mathematician to which we will attribute all our humorous mathematical "discoveries" if we want to < 1443059790 40666 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a mathematitian < 1443059805 243434 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool < 1443059805 422023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Hedwig hth < 1443059812 716196 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in honor of Euler, I would recommend "Sir Oily" < 1443059822 826655 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hedwig Notta? That works < 1443059835 768232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly for the final -ig < 1443059864 360000 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir Oilly was a mathematician who lived on the moon, who invented the calculus of emotions, which has been very useful in pre-crime investigations < 1443059869 574451 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1443059894 709775 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should his birthyear be (pleasebeacomplexnumberpleasebeacomplexnumberpleasebeacomplexnumber) < 1443059900 478510 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1443059904 103110 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1443059924 523402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1963 1/4 < 1443059931 517872 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works too :,( < 1443059945 376525 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 2025 + sqrt(-2) < 1443059950 77848 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-150-186.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Apparat” doesn’t have the ending in the first place, and thus takes an -e plural. “Status” is so rarely pluralized, it takes a Latin plural, meaning it stays “Status”. < 1443060035 557042 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better: (-4000000)^(1/4) < 1443060067 291627 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means he could have been born in any one of 8 places in the complex time-plane < 1443060150 437329 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps the calculation should be based on J2000 < 1443060177 585243 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :J2000 + (-4)^(1/4) microseconds < 1443060270 247164 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did his poor, farming family farm for a living? < 1443060295 362860 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooo, it would have to be bitcoins < 1443060299 631256 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes < 1443060301 777137 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitcoins < 1443060413 663015 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's root(-1, 3)? < 1443060421 240565 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also complex < 1443060438 678190 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a boring one because 1 of the roots is -1 < 1443060516 813929 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one day, he accidentally planted an J2EE seed, and got a giant J2EEBeanStock in his backyard < 1443060612 630241 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rediscovered lambda calculus, not to be famous, or get into the Turing/Church prodecural/function debates, but because we was stuck in his house, and wanted to go outside to get a new 802.11ac router < 1443060688 441648 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Hedwig Notta14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44375 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+919) 10Created Page (in user namespace for safety) < 1443060713 572486 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: You can go edit the page in my user namespace < 1443060786 255659 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1443060807 528078 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Hedwig Notta14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44376&oldid=44375 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+5) 10Added Mdr. prefix to introductory paragraph (should it be bold?) < 1443060820 755076 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: By that I mean you /should/ edit the page < 1443060858 819158 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you the one who came up with @? < 1443061131 277598 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1443061135 609410 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was Sgeo < 1443061344 549866 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443061350 512651 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : All of those words are made up entirely of straight lines. <-- except for NEITHER hth < 1443061361 119352 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :os < 1443061394 227117 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to assume that the inclusion of R was an error. < 1443061414 854816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely the kind of puzzle you should check programmatically. like writing a novel without E < 1443061423 935017 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1443061426 369772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could also remove the keycap) < 1443061440 315959 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :As everyone knows, writing a novel without E is effectively impossible without a typewriter. < 1443061454 494237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1443061496 738247 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr. < 1443061499 889730 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to re-say that. < 1443061505 756200 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Hedwig Notta14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44377&oldid=44376 5* 0373.133.129.229 5* (+1022) 10 < 1443061507 183722 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore the above three lines and this line. < 1443061513 160128 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I wrote a little bit < 1443061514 719273 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :As everyone knows, writing a novel without E is effectively impossible with a typewriter. < 1443061671 2255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: Are you the one who came up with @? <-- i thought that was elliott < 1443061685 703665 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, adu < 1443061702 702971 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: It was Sgeo. I have it documented. Not sure if elliott == Sgeo. < 1443061731 448477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw hedwig is a female name but e's a Mdr. anyway so who knows < 1443061735 11563 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: it's not perfect, but I think it's funny enough for a first draft < 1443061736 736330 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott !+ Sgeo < 1443061739 413991 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :err != < 1443061746 420839 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1443061752 483339 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, maybe we're thinking of different @s? < 1443061757 538637 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1443061775 348708 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is the one where |x| is redefined such that |a + b@| = |a| - |b| < 1443061776 408516 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: |@| = -1 in Sgeo's system < 1443061798 14263 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's @? < 1443061805 271311 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: A number < 1443061812 595744 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... I guess it's a number such that |@| = -1. < 1443061817 154485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's for metadoctor < 1443061837 700527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i was thinking of elliott's OS < 1443061842 799503 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote vapo < 1443061855 403385 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :446) sllide: @ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour < 1443061863 977712 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. For a complex number z = a + bi, with a and b real, a^2 + b^2 = |z|^2. < 1443061879 437290 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Hedwig Notta14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44378&oldid=44377 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+29) 10Sectionized discoveries < 1443062122 92239 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Hedwig Notta14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44379&oldid=44378 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+5) 10tense spacing < 1443062898 546562 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do when you're op in a channel and people start talking about off topic things but they're not interrupting any other discussion because there was none? < 1443063052 196295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem a problem to me in most cases < 1443063130 584714 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're ranging from politics to bsdm to cracking systems < 1443063299 912279 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If nobody has any on topic things to write about at the current moment then at least I don't care; but others may have different opinion < 1443063465 458075 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, at least, |a| + |b| >= |a + b| no longer holds < 1443063566 179914 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, and I expect that would make it to be not a metric, isn't it? Then why do they call it a metric? < 1443063612 644748 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I called it a metric. It's possible that it was a metric before but my redefinition (which is really the only 'legitimate' way to do this, I'm guessing) makes it not a metric anymore < 1443063615 972317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: ais523 has some opinions on that, as i recall. < 1443063617 408719 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your definition of |x| ? < 1443063632 168720 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: on politics or bsdm? < 1443063643 440608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he tries to defuse disturbing discussions < 1443063653 893906 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those subjects probably qualify < 1443063663 42031 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera, if there is no @, then |x| = abs(x). Else, |a + b@| = |a| - |b| < 1443063688 940637 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, unless that definition of |x| has an inconsistency, then we go back to only knowing that |@| = -1 < 1443063698 317274 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you posted it a few messages ago < 1443063769 808354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i believe there have been people who left this channel because they found some of the political discussions disturbing. < 1443063787 200777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've got less of those discussions these days, i think < 1443063827 510470 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :|0+1@| == |0| - |1@| == 1 < 1443063863 782042 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that can't work < 1443063870 191614 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? Why isn't it |0| - |1|? Or, why are you saying you can do |0| - |1@| ? < 1443063871 187186 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless -1 is 1 of course < 1443063874 859523 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: That doesn't seem Sgeo's definition? < 1443063876 914385 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1443063879 874899 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stupid < 1443063895 662596 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< < 1443063913 444239 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my defense it's 5am < 1443063957 82279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hm your @ looks a bit similar to minkowski metric < 1443063968 856723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1443063975 79708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that involves squaring < 1443064169 783912 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is |@ + @| ? < 1443064282 636974 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :-2 < 1443064321 793500 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's entirely non obvious < 1443064379 351767 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: 2@ < 1443064386 240972 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1443064389 584401 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|2@|=-2 < 1443064390 229759 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :|x| is real < 1443064397 663814 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i+i=2i < 1443064402 130984 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So @+@=2@ < 1443064440 452177 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's |e^(@*pi)| ? < 1443064500 407370 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to ^@ < 1443064527 981816 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then try to figure out how < 1443064544 856117 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^x is exp(x) which is 1 + x + x^2 / 2! + x^3 / 3! + ... < 1443064567 277162 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a@| == -a ? < 1443064578 635703 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Yes < 1443064591 644869 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine @^2 = 1 < 1443064622 784136 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443064633 606920 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you think? < 1443064651 644126 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think hyperbolic functions are applicable somehow < 1443064674 355207 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@@| = - |@| = 1 < 1443064707 618533 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443064758 361537 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, that seems useful < 1443064762 747230 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exp(x) thing < 1443064788 378773 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1443064801 606749 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, it's how matrix exponentiation is generalised for example < 1443064822 29605 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm I think |e^@| = e^-1 ? < 1443064823 77131 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the justification for how exponentiation works in the complex numbers < 1443064847 834315 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't think so < 1443064862 942820 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hmmm < 1443064908 51690 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me actually calculate it < 1443064963 244517 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So as I was saying... < 1443065028 553411 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd say |x| is naturally treated as a multivalued function, having y as a value if and only if it has -y as a value. < 1443065034 793206 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And having at most two values. < 1443065052 644786 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you look at it this way, then |x| = -1 just means the same thing as |x| = 1. < 1443065188 844059 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443065189 118224 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443065199 25194 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graph of the absolute value function looks like a cone; the shape becomes more elegant if you extend it to a double cone. < 1443065205 553640 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can define "becomes more elegant" precisely. < 1443065256 891567 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. A double cone is the graph of the equation x^2 + y^2 = z^2. < 1443065257 376335 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443065259 461724 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443065264 611795 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cone is no such thing. < 1443065289 34760 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hfvwzvgasvkdabgn PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1443065290 790586 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: e^@ = cosh(1) + @*sinh(1) < 1443065345 187411 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :cosh(1) - sinh(1) = e^-1 < 1443065348 555512 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Seems you were right < 1443065355 114444 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443065360 881185 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443065398 929888 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, I was looking at your expansion, where each x is, when ||ed a - < 1443065410 962517 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand hyperbolic trig though < 1443065449 562829 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443065449 946364 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443065466 150212 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinh and cosh are pretty simple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_function < 1443065483 992373 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just (e^x ± e^-x)/2. < 1443065535 375487 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443065535 706408 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443065537 314527 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we have a pretty trivial identity e^x = cosh x + sinh x, meaning that e^@ = cosh @ + sinh @. < 1443065596 400180 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I think the way I'd handle this is to say that every complex number besides 0 has two variants, one whose absolute value is positive and one whose absolute value is negative. < 1443065624 463181 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the question is how to extend arithmetic appropriately. < 1443065635 665100 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, |e^@| = |e^(-1)| < 1443065652 879368 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could define @ as the variant of 1 whose absolute value is negative. < 1443065701 479892 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, is this different from adding a boolean dimension to the complex numbers? < 1443065731 766507 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, under my scheme, 0 only has the one variant. < 1443065810 989411 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining multiplication being such that @^2 = 1. < 1443065838 628009 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, we've established @*@ = 1 too < 1443065883 999793 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you decided that @ is negative? < 1443065911 7792 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember establishing @@=1 < 1443065915 876400 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that |@@| = 1 < 1443065932 383418 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is i considered positive? < 1443065934 995160 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ok, it hasn't been formally proven < 1443065937 366395 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is not positive. < 1443065958 690270 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess negative i is not negative? < 1443065958 882895 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how this compares to a Clifford algebra with e1² = 1 < 1443065960 669523 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This amuses me. < 1443065981 643819 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, I wish I knew what that meant < 1443065996 195568 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I wish that too < 1443066030 175105 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, negative negative one isn't negative, either. < 1443066092 769552 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :For convenience, I'm gonna abbreviate the sign of the absolute value of a number as its SAV. < 1443066120 651615 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ordinary numbers we're used to are (with the exception of 0) positive-SAV numbers. < 1443066137 618522 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each positive-SAV number has a counterpart which is a negative-SAV number, and vice versa. < 1443066204 68655 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can switch between these two counterparts by multiplying by @, which is simply the negative-SAV counterpart of 1. < 1443066217 408487 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication is still associative and commutative, and @^2 = 1. < 1443066230 661476 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is neither positive-SAV nor negative-SAV, since its absolute value is 0. < 1443066235 916731 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This tells you how to do multiplication. < 1443066253 804436 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for how to do addition? < 1443066293 770178 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel comfortable saying this much: the sum of two positive-SAV numbers is the expected positive-SAV number and the sum of two negative-SAV numbers is the expected negative-SAV number. The sum of 0 with any number is that number. < 1443066313 605048 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The case I'm leaving undefined is the sum of a positive-SAV number and a negative-SAV number. < 1443066365 185357 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I justified @^2 = 1 by thinking about |x|^2 = x^2 < 1443066371 375774 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's not really a proof < 1443066405 405671 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I was previously thinking about polynomials where x^2 gets replaced with |x| < 1443066423 138957 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :|x|^2 = x^2 doesn't hold for imaginary numbers. < 1443066433 519514 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^3 becomes x|x| and so on < 1443066437 188815 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think |a + b@| = |a| - |b| is also something that seemed to fit, was thinking about squaring I think < 1443066446 122895 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ah, good point < 1443066448 169837 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be in the logs somewhere < 1443066485 707134 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 + @ is a zero-SAV number that is not equal to 0 < 1443066538 617080 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you prove that it doesn't equal zero? < 1443066550 995268 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So |10 + 3@| is 7? < 1443066578 985785 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, yes, assuming we accept my above definition, which I don't think has any blatant problems so is there a reason not to? < 1443066600 274269 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+@)^2 = 1+2@+@@ < 1443066601 362241 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 + @ = 0; 1 = -@; -1 = @; < 1443066609 507099 :lemurian!~sh4n3@unaffiliated/lemurian JOIN :#esoteric < 1443066616 665390 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means that |10 + 3i@| is also 7. < 1443066648 560087 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which definitely doesn't sit well with me. < 1443066678 798358 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you bringing i into this? < 1443066684 928199 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm not sure what the problem is? |i| = 1 < 1443066695 553201 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, |10 + 3i| isn't 13. < 1443066700 606922 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1443066704 622282 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point, hmm < 1443066729 366987 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we can chuck i in just like that < 1443066730 370353 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would |10 + 3i@| be 7? < 1443066748 779363 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a + b@| = |a| - |b| < 1443066750 991233 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|10 + 3i@| = |10| - |3i| = 10 - 3 = 7 < 1443066780 166905 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think @ is orthogonal to i, so it's ok < 1443066802 54715 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a funny sort of orthogonality. < 1443066805 502955 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both a and b can be separate complex numbers < 1443066810 519517 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what @ is... < 1443066816 852496 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep: don't we all. < 1443066829 761789 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep: A fancy new number with a negative magnitude < 1443066833 418002 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: now, what would justify |a + b@| = |a| - |b|? < 1443066837 602895 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I know for a fact, that I do quite profusely. < 1443066845 519303 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,// < 1443066862 67332 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like an extension of the rule that |a + b| = |a| + |b|, but that rule isn't actually true. < 1443066866 777928 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had thought that the absolute value of i was i < 1443066869 851952 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep, a number such that |@| = -1, alternatively, a system in which || is redefined to allow for |@| = -1 < 1443066874 580247 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, |i| is 1. < 1443066910 772696 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: |a + b@| isn't the same as |a + b| though < 1443066911 982861 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, I think it's clear though that |a + b| <= |a| + |b| without @, but breaks when @ is introduced < 1443066913 662219 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh,yes < 1443066915 674841 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I had a thought just now. < 1443066939 496423 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Just as |a + bi| isn't the same as |a + b| < 1443066967 660366 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see any justification for |a + b@| = |a| - |b|. < 1443066972 736092 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, the thing is with |a + bi| you don't just add or subtract, it involves squaring and square roots < 1443067000 558014 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, define a transconic number as a pair (z,v) where z is a complex number and v is a real number. < 1443067008 631442 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here we aren't just adding or subtracting either, it involves the magnitudes of the components < 1443067014 610612 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The absolute value of (z,v) is v. < 1443067070 262473 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems like it might admit more numbers than the @ system < 1443067076 248936 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transconic numbers are an extension of the complex numbers; the complex number z corresponds to the transconic number (z,|z|). < 1443067089 774305 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is (1,-1). < 1443067113 762529 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication just goes elementwise: (z,v) * (z',v') is (z*z', v*v'). < 1443067126 280090 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Do you get the identity exp(@x) = cosh(x) + @*sinh(x) from this? < 1443067155 551737 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: it's not obvious to me where that identity comes from. < 1443067181 794658 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: taylor expansions of exp, cosh and sinh around 0 < 1443067200 626192 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And @^2 = 1 < 1443067200 817106 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you get that identity or not. < 1443067206 520966 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, that identity does rely on |b@| = -|b| I think < 1443067234 43608 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just relies on @^2 = 1 I think < 1443067244 179991 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if b is 3i@? < 1443067280 345167 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :|10 + 3i| = |10 + 3i@^2| = |10| - |3i@| = |10| + |3i| < 1443067299 462789 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the question regarding these "transconic numbers" is how to do addition. < 1443067314 558120 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if @^2=1 |(1+@)|=0 < 1443067338 73157 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woop |(1+@)^2|=0 < 1443067340 397736 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit distracted by work related phone call right now < 1443067353 434026 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we would kind of like to say is that (z,v) + (y,w) is (z+y, v+w). < 1443067374 556363 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The z+y part is indeed what I want, but adding two numbers doesn't generally add their absolute values. < 1443067404 27328 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all transconic numbers can take the form a+b@, I believe < 1443067404 793822 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines what a ((work related phone) call) would be like... a sort-of... formal ringing? < 1443067435 893332 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :A call, whether business or personal, placed on a company-owned phone? < 1443067451 814685 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is what I thought too < 1443067464 423122 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That's a (work related)(phone call). < 1443067472 548403 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if we want another number, %, where |%| = i ? < 1443067524 438091 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh... maybe not. < 1443067534 8382 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme see. What's the formula for |a + b| given |a|, |b|, and the required extra info? < 1443067562 730135 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if we try to do it geometrically? < 1443067568 334011 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is related to the law of cosines. < 1443067575 359300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep: I thought a (work related)(phone call) would be a call discussing work, so normally business but it might not necessarily be (it could be a personal call where someone ask you how long until you are home from work I suppose, but I am not sure if it count actually) < 1443067577 533111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does |a + b| count as required extra info? < 1443067586 388940 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, @ defines a third dimension, such that going along the dimension negates instead of adds to the distance? < 1443067592 836100 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, I realized that after a few seconds. < 1443067616 762037 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few of them. < 1443067617 670808 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're talking just about real numbers, you could do a formula with some trouble, I think < 1443067618 506185 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's more or less what I'm doing. < 1443067672 357666 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :signum(a) and signum(b) would be required extra info, I believe < 1443067678 656381 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's different, your additional dimension is the actual absolute value, where mine only contributes differently < 1443067700 954382 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I think the equation I want is |a + b|^2 = |a|^2 + |b|^2 - |2ab| cos(gamma). < 1443067706 363637 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a+bi+c@| = sqrt(a^2 + b^2 - c^2) ? < 1443067711 439386 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where gamma is the relevant angle. < 1443067751 858704 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos(gamma) is, I think, the real part of the signum of a/b. < 1443067767 225980 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm I don't know what to do with |i@| < 1443067784 818100 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait didn't I break that sqrt approach once before in the logs? < 1443067793 62303 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that can't be right... < 1443067819 289107 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh. That certainly can be right. < 1443067841 992092 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right sqrt is usually defined as positive < 1443067864 345906 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PART #esoteric :"Error -15: Teleporter malfunction." < 1443067866 52451 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443067894 772330 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need an actual mathematician < 1443067902 831870 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. |a + b|^2 = |a|^2 + |b|^2 - |2ab| Real(Sgn(a/b)). < 1443067924 46857 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual mathematician here. what's the emergency? < 1443067928 132452 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a + b@| = sqrt(a^2) - (sqrt(a^2 + b^2) - sqrt(a^2)) < 1443067928 592979 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This implies that |a + b| = sqrt(|a|^2 + |b|^2 - |2ab| Real(Sgn(a/b))). < 1443067938 420491 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you have published research? < 1443067947 162202 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: not published, but I have an approved thesis < 1443067961 338524 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a + b@| = 2a - sqrt(a^2 + b^2), does this make sense as reasonable? < 1443067961 849341 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :A PhD thesis? < 1443067977 395006 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy right now will run some numbers through that later < 1443067979 728291 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the question for my thing is, of course, which square root? < 1443068135 582088 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of sqrt(a^2 + b^2) < 1443068142 828151 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's have |a + bi| < 1443068166 953793 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, equiv. and makes it more intuitive, ty < 1443068182 29041 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no still not intuitive < 1443068249 63224 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need sleep < 1443068269 823601 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that I'm capturing the extent that the dimension contributes to distance, and negating it < 1443068289 731447 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might turn out that the answer is "the obvious one". < 1443068316 46014 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, I have an addition formula now. It's horrible, but it exists. < 1443068319 173850 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... < 1443068361 7176 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :(z,v) + (y,w) = (z+y, sqrt(v^2 + w^2 - 2vw Real(Sign(z/y)))) < 1443068417 247373 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a weird one < 1443068429 501506 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1443068443 445960 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the icky thing is, I don't know how to determine which square root you use. < 1443068451 392726 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :All we need now is someone to prove all of this mess inconsistent < 1443068476 945756 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :My stuff is undoubtedly inconsistent with some axioms obeyed by the complex numbers, but it's consistent per se. < 1443068512 68754 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if we want |%| = i ? < 1443068542 230619 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would hypothetically be (1,i). < 1443068560 105291 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm currently not permitting the v part to be non-real. < 1443068649 933844 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are our defintions similar or different? They look different, can we put some numbers in? < 1443068681 175975 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per mine, |1+@| = 2 - sqrt(2) = I have no idea if that's sane < 1443068711 89185 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per yours, |1+@| = sqrt(0 - 0) = 0 < 1443068774 228002 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per mine, |1+@| is the absolute value of 1 + @ = (1,1) + (1,-1) = (2, sqrt(1^2 + (-1)^2 - 2(1)(-1) Real(Sign(1/1))))... < 1443068831 79637 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that square root is sqrt(1 + 1 + 2), or 2. < 1443068840 414142 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443068842 515631 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1443068849 54777 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the answer is (2, 2), except I don't have a basis for choosing whether it's 2 or -2. < 1443068864 658704 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 1 + @ is undecided between 2 and -2. < 1443068880 37070 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prohibit that sum. < 1443068886 326035 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So, you're not going with |1+@| = 0 any more? < 1443068889 103823 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, it's undecided between 2 and 2@. < 1443068914 473383 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 -> (1, 1)? < 1443068926 587300 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. In general, z -> (z, |z|) < 1443068939 930193 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err... where? < 1443068941 379784 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ζ=1/0 < 1443068951 85068 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to go on a long, rambling discussion about that? < 1443068955 683662 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1443068966 397422 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It equals -1/0, hth < 1443068966 967977 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: sure. That discussion is called "projective algebraic geometry". < 1443068982 623929 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Wait, that's a thing? < 1443069011 432152 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, I don't think so < 1443069035 677473 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, projective algebraic geometry involves adding points that are essentially located at 1/0. < 1443069041 594934 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ζ is the notta constant in this case < 1443069043 384846 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1443069045 394104 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cheating < 1443069046 95437 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1443069049 913253 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Notta < 1443069052 137718 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, are -1/0 and 1/0 equivalent in projective algebraic geometry? < 1443069061 552643 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nζ=n/0 < 1443069067 991872 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_projective_line < 1443069082 654144 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Projective algebraic geometry doesn't really treat 1/0 as a number. < 1443069105 559139 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the projective version of the real line (which is the thing FreeFull just linked) does have a number 1/0, which is the same as -1/0. < 1443069118 900975 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1443069126 457670 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should call it a point instead of a number. < 1443069137 910707 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |#|=i < 1443069151 700165 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also the complex projective line < 1443069165 7937 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which also has a single point at infinity < 1443069174 406751 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, I presume, the quaternionical projective line? < 1443069184 628609 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's (*)+(√) < 1443069186 993582 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: that's also called the Riemann sphere, isn't it? < 1443069202 427241 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make an Algebra of Operations xD < 1443069207 970065 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which defines operations on operations < 1443069213 260666 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes < 1443069218 614017 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|x+@| = 0 in my system, 2x - sqrt(x^2 + 1) = 0; 2x = sqrt(x^2 + 1), 4x^2 = x^2 + 1; 4x^2 - x^2 - 1 = 0; 3x^2 - 1 = 0; 3x^2 = 1; x^2 = 1/3; x= 1/sqrt(3) ?!?!? < 1443069245 982096 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well i! equals some weird shit, so... that's fine, really < 1443069254 745731 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: there are a lot of ways to do that. < 1443069258 856821 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say... lambda calculus. < 1443069260 735599 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Haskell. < 1443069269 899655 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: That doesn't make sense, * is dyadic and √ is monadic < 1443069282 376506 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Exactly. The Algebra of Operations < 1443069308 242617 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Haskell is cheating. λ-calc is too, maybe < 1443069325 624805 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we prove that we can have |a + b@| have different definitions that are each individually consistent with themselves? < 1443069332 259901 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should the metaoperations be? < 1443069340 265533 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes it cheating? < 1443069360 188577 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It isn't fun if it's already been done, unfun things are cheating, so you cheated < 1443069360 856514 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we do it modulo 3? < 1443069382 947643 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which modulo 3? < 1443069394 662097 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm does my approach introduce an asymetry between a and b? < 1443069402 169615 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|#|=i. Someone deal with that. < 1443069408 127259 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be displeasing < 1443069415 812119 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:3508:d3e7:4eb6:fffe JOIN :#esoteric < 1443069416 13212 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:3508:d3e7:4eb6:fffe QUIT :Changing host < 1443069416 13260 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443069423 680333 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1443069426 33745 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi bender| < 1443069476 917892 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hp, does your equation produce an integer? < 1443069494 317815 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zhₙ(a, b) ∀(n, a, b) ∋ ℂ < 1443069494 628401 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1443069520 602035 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Zh being an extended hyperoperation) < 1443069533 451246 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let & be such that |&| = & and & is not zero or positive. < 1443069550 311343 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bender|: You wouldn't happen to have any ideas as to how that could work, would you? < 1443069565 801723 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we do this with some other function? Instead of |x|, why not sinc(x)? < 1443069653 931463 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have decided that "@" (the character, not the number) is now called the "atpersand" in my book, "Arbitrary Names for Arbitrary Things". < 1443069695 314314 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: tswett: We need to think about what signum means for our special numbers < 1443069704 967568 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :signum? < 1443069707 206099 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we want to keep the relation x = signum(x)|x| < 1443069710 115596 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at person and other things < 1443069714 90474 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgn()? < 1443069726 202820 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, good point < 1443069741 561380 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], tells you whether a number is negative, positive, or zero. < 1443069751 12528 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Yeah < 1443069754 376176 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the complex numbers, sgn(x) = x/|x|. < 1443069754 554726 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So sgn() then? < 1443069759 69914 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can be defined as |x|/x if x != 0. This obviously may no longer be accurate < 1443069768 711509 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also applies to the real numbers. < 1443069772 772769 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: and sgn(0) = 0 < 1443069773 230818 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the c@mplex numbers? < 1443069777 40419 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :|x|/x doesn't work for the complex numbers. < 1443069795 557774 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: on my blog, sgn(0) is undefined. < 1443069803 603981 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh didn't realize there's a difference between |x|/x and x/|x| < 1443069820 874145 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :i/|i| is i, |i|/i is 1/i which is -i. < 1443069848 855545 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Wait, what? < 1443069854 215114 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ = sgn(@)|@|; @ = -sgn(@); sgn(@) = -@ < 1443069854 560908 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/i=-i!? < 1443069869 204836 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1443069870 698261 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because i * -i = -(i * i) = -(-1) = 1. < 1443069874 265610 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right. I should go to bed a couple of hours ago. < 1443069875 462124 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@/-1 = -@ < 1443069875 640195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1443069876 436249 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night, everyone. < 1443069881 45020 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks good < 1443069882 842813 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night tswett < 1443069887 489857 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@night < 1443069887 689960 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1443069896 347568 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`loudly sleep tight < 1443069897 570935 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​04,09s09,04l04,09e09,04e04,09p09,04 04,09t09,04i04,09g09,04h04,09t < 1443069905 197319 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guhni < 1443069934 851494 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So what's sgn(-@)? < 1443069936 311692 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@? < 1443069967 491045 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. @ * |-@| = -@ < 1443069975 14097 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming we preserve the property that sgn(x) = -x which probably isn't a property now that I think about it? < 1443069985 808055 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1443069995 581297 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@*|-@| = -@? < 1443069995 771009 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1443070008 980852 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|-@| = -1, right? < 1443070010 92259 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|-@| = 1, correct? < 1443070017 969705 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1443070023 216478 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Uh < 1443070029 164531 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|-@| = -1 < 1443070030 80828 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1443070033 728073 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolute value < 1443070034 566150 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1443070073 126724 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, @*|-@|=@*-1=-@ < 1443070079 255807 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discovery! < 1443070080 873805 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WhoO! < 1443070086 211422 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/O/o/! < 1443070094 435764 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the sgn thing is the most solid thing we have < 1443070109 588873 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should you put it in a formal document and publish it? < 1443070150 54593 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call the document "Making up numbers: A study of studying solutions to undefined algebraic expressions" < 1443070174 700117 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because @ is the solution to the "formerly" undefined algebraic expression |x|=-1, of course) < 1443070340 135741 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's your next assignment: sin(@), cos(@), tan(@) xD < 1443070395 38638 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1443070417 465964 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adieu < 1443070425 305481 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adnqsnbzoocfzhkb JOIN :#esoteric < 1443070452 755114 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a + b@| = 2a - sqrt(a^2 + b^2); |4 + 3@| = 8 - sqrt(16 + 9 = 25) = 8 - 5 = 3 < 1443070477 250233 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems a bit odd to me < 1443070528 474907 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Zh[@](a, b)? < 1443070534 798971 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what Zh means < 1443070553 4045 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zh is the extended hyperoperations xD < 1443070554 64330 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hfvwzvgasvkdabgn JOIN :#esoteric < 1443070571 167275 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett's approach gives meaningful definition to addition, where I just leave them in current form < 1443070588 899899 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pseudohaskell: < 1443070603 778886 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind < 1443070613 966037 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you understand the hyperoperations xD < 1443070642 478723 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEh < 1443070680 741868 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperoperation#Definition < 1443070710 657387 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :H n a b = < 1443070722 604835 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : |n==0: b+1 < 1443070739 223551 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : |n==1 and b==0: a < 1443070751 468079 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : |n==2 and b==0: 0 < 1443070762 471827 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : n>=3 and b==0: 1 < 1443070771 137813 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / |/ < 1443070795 504934 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : |else: H n-1 a H n-1 a b-1 < 1443070807 189836 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should've put some parenthesis in that last one < 1443070819 936813 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :H n-1 a (H n-1 a b-1) < 1443070855 118636 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's only reasonably impossible to read < 1443070884 640161 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to use normal HTTP proxies rather than CONNECT proxies for HTTPS in Firefox? < 1443070892 674351 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue < 1443070900 553608 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not really < 1443070921 982601 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the proxy can't issue a valid certificate, nor can it negotiate a connection on your behalf < 1443070933 543176 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to define a new function called Zh[n](a, b) which defines the hyperoperation for as many possible numbers as possible < 1443070955 293389 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting with the c@mplexes (a+bi+c@+di@) < 1443070960 344873 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how to attempt to prove a contradiction in any of the |a + b@| definitions < 1443070968 898794 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least the complexes. < 1443070974 873008 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there aren't any < 1443070982 582949 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you've just invented an entirely new type of number < 1443070995 772867 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The proxy shouldn't need to issue a certificate in such a case < 1443070996 588603 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you're one of the greatest genii of our generations < 1443070996 777243 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some definitions that are bad though. < 1443071018 272220 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a + b@| = -a really, really sucks as a definition < 1443071020 213707 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as? < 1443071024 542454 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you need a certificate for HTTPS though. that's the point < 1443071028 224789 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah < 1443071031 138515 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty bad < 1443071041 868373 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it should send "GET https://example.org/ HTTP/1.1" to the proxy server if you request https://example.org/ and otherwise ignore the HTTPS stuff and delegate all such stuff to the proy server to handle instead < 1443071072 399875 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it should be an option; you should also be allowed to use CONNECT proxies if you wish to handle encryption on the client instead) < 1443071079 913081 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it equaled |a|+|b@|=|a|-b < 1443071112 396455 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that not how it works? < 1443071147 526943 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@|=-1 is actually one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen < 1443071149 154870 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If b can be c@mplex, you'd get |a| + |@@| = |a| - @ and I don't think we've attempted to get @ absolute values < 1443071162 708230 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To allow it by another kind of PAC response perhaps < 1443071184 581944 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So is c@mplesx of the form (a+bi+c@+di@) or (a+b@)? < 1443071198 912624 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to get to that first one eventually < 1443071210 491453 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love to see it happen. < 1443071214 131909 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sarcasm. < 1443071221 441821 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I live long enough to see this become a thing < 1443071227 979365 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it probably won't < 1443071236 750844 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a + bi + c@| seems easy enough with my approach at least. < 1443071246 888053 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that would not work, because the proxy will not handle https < 1443071252 854804 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a+b@ is the atoids, I believe < 1443071277 90736 :Jenkins3!~thefEnce@pool-173-66-188-233.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443071293 858513 :Jenkins3!~thefEnce@pool-173-66-188-233.washdc.fios.verizon.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1443071294 36650 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a + bi + c@| = 2*sqrt(a^2 + b^2) - sqrt(a^2 + b^2 + c^2) < 1443071296 273064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a PAC file with the "file:" scheme and it works, even though Wikipedia says to publish to HTTP server; but using a local file is going to be faster and more versatile and more secure too. < 1443071304 964802 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I suppose it is technically possible but it would be bad to accept it < 1443071305 142974 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you make a formal document describing what you've discovered so far about @? < 1443071312 801471 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], not tonight < 1443071316 317680 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not necessarily formal < 1443071318 336319 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, many proxies don't, but a few proxies do, so in the cases where it does, it would be accepted. < 1443071318 514924 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about an informal one. < 1443071323 711130 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need a list of the equations < 1443071324 808278 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would not actually be a secure connection and the client software should not lie to its user like that < 1443071332 776914 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course the proxy could be localhost if you want to) < 1443071344 68398 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting with the bases and explaining the highlights of what you've derived from it < 1443071352 293518 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It doesn't lie; the user must program the proxy explicitly. < 1443071366 732227 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but even so, they would assume an https connection is secure < 1443071369 149852 :krator44!krator44@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-dtgtwzgyvsgzpllm JOIN :#esoteric < 1443071375 326887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it requires a PAC file loaded with the "file:" scheme then it is more safe < 1443071395 520961 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be made to refuse to do that if the PAC is loaded from any other scheme < 1443071395 703843 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that would give neither an encrypted connection, since the connection to the proxy would be unencrypted, nor validation of the server certificate < 1443071412 37188 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The proxy would validate the certificate if that is wanted. < 1443071427 755617 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], http://oeis.org <---huge list < 1443071432 167517 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) the client can't trust the proxy's validation < 1443071444 181307 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) the proxy has no way to communicate that it rejects the proxy's assessment < 1443071445 453007 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1443071448 978626 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it rejects the certificate < 1443071450 9231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The user would have to implicitly trust it when configuring the proxy < 1443071454 577824 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a weird shape defined as |x + y@| = 0 < 1443071464 125818 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blurelIse: Of what? < 1443071473 815528 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :equations for integer sequences < 1443071479 808862 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what oeis is, but it's a list of what particularly in this case? < 1443071480 696297 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1443071496 841926 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just asking for the @teger sequences < 1443071498 632884 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And such < 1443071520 208853 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1443071554 229004 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if anything it also gives you a general layout for publishing without a paper < 1443071555 674328 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sequences so much as equations < 1443071591 848203 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each sequence has an equation that creates it, so theres all sorts of fun stuff in there < 1443071604 198324 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIight ,right < 1443071613 491438 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to oeis before -_- < 1443071643 807735 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1443071654 227998 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to being useless :D < 1443071681 934626 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could return a 5xx error or 4xx error or whatever in case of certificate errors. < 1443071721 702796 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Possibly 502) < 1443071744 776349 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1443071842 322196 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this seems inferior to CONNECT < 1443072066 960554 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the old |a+b@| played nicely with throwing random garbage in there, I'm not sure if this one will < 1443072113 339692 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a+b@| = 2a - |a+bi| might behave differently in edge cases, so let's use this < 1443072135 525139 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that i could complicate the issue... hm don't know what do < 1443072160 855957 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@2602:306:8039:e9e0:3cff:20fb:7815:f4cc JOIN :#esoteric < 1443072185 854255 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@ + @| = 2@ - |@ + i| = ???; 2@ - sqrt(@^2 + 1) = ??? < 1443072215 802681 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@+@|=2@ or |@+@|=|2@| < 1443072219 189578 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1443072241 753419 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter, but trying to see if my definition breaks < 1443072259 976317 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1443072266 260081 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the |@+i| < 1443072278 215961 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1443072280 702530 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@+i < 1443072280 885985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl id do bid bf @ ? . < 1443072304 236913 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2@ - sqrt(@^2 + 1) = -2; 2@ = sqrt(@^2 + 1); 4@^2 = @^2 + 1; 3@^2 = 1; @^2 = 1/3 = what? < 1443072305 137823 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting into c@mplex numbers now, are we? < 1443072314 424617 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], not really < 1443072327 144226 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stress-testing definitions < 1443072332 508768 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@+i is a c@mplex number < 1443072332 688229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl id do bid bf @ ? . < 1443072334 783213 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: In some ways it is, but it also allows you to do some stuff that you might want to do otherwise < 1443072349 658652 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], yeah, so I'm going to stay away from using that definition < 1443072359 981576 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was using the |a+bi| thing as a shortcut to say 2d distance < 1443072393 383529 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just actually want a vararg dist() function < 1443072408 993714 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I say dist() always returns positive, we end up right back where we started < 1443072470 599189 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what, I might go back to that one that used || with imaginary < 1443072485 587564 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a+b@| = 2a - |a+bi| < 1443072496 568883 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example if you want to ignore some certificate errors or if you want to modify the headers or make a backup copy, then you can program the proxy to do such thing. This feature can be useful if it is a LAN proxy you can make a shared cache < 1443072526 760968 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, to match my intuitions, I want |a+b@| = 2a - |a+bi| = 2a - |ai+b| < 1443072550 598193 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course for security purposes it should not be allowed in non-local PAC files < 1443072571 373343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I also want |a+b@| = - |a@+b| < 1443072625 259552 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the latter is a good restriction we can push any definition against < 1443072685 130210 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a+b@| = 2a - |a+bi| = - |a@+b| = -2b + |ai+b| ? < 1443072700 73294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2a - |a+bi| = -2b + |ai + b| ? < 1443072718 608125 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming a and b are real, that's a question that doesn't involve @ at all, which is nice < 1443072853 365577 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2a + 2b = |a+bi| + |ai + b|; Uh I have no idea how to proceed from here < 1443072925 699504 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=1; 2 = 1 + |i| = 2. < 1443072934 945093 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a second I forgot that a was 1 and thought it was 2 < 1443073140 996711 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other way around should also be allowed; if you want to connect to a insecure server (of any protocol) using a CONNECT proxy that should be allowed too < 1443073164 971482 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1443073169 449012 :krator44!krator44@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-dtgtwzgyvsgzpllm PART :#esoteric < 1443073217 267645 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443073315 307233 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-218-160.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443073381 569624 :lemurian!~sh4n3@unaffiliated/lemurian QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443073631 57306 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I can set the ALLOWS_PROXY_HTTP flag on the "https:" scheme will that allow it to work how I wanted it to work? < 1443073897 635563 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@2602:306:8039:e9e0:3cff:20fb:7815:f4cc QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1443074052 123431 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443074217 31786 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443074270 299929 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443074370 182558 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe numbers of the form a + bi + c@ + di@ are just 4-dimensional? < 1443074448 205258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1443074735 999970 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let @1 and @2 be two different numbers. |a + b@1| = |a| - |b|; |a + b@2| = 2a - |a + bi|; |a + x@1| = |a + @2|; |a| - |x| = 2a - |a + i|; |x| - |a| = |a + i| - 2a; |x| = |a + i| + |a|; Guess not. Was speculating that maybe the definitions just resulted in subtly different @ values along the same dimension < 1443074872 400237 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think though that this suggests that both definitions might be reasonable? < 1443075092 625790 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|x + y@| = 0; 2x - |x + yi| = 0; Wolfram Alpha hates this, how about 2x - sqrt(x^2 + y^2) = 0? Wow this is stunningly boring: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2x+-+sqrt%28x%5E2+%2B+y%5E2%29+%3D+0 < 1443075989 129119 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Quit: WALRUS MAAAAAAAAAAAAN < 1443077141 175833 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443077196 637836 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So out of curiosity, how is defining a variable such that |x|=-1 different from defining a variable such that, for example, x+y!=y+x? < 1443077210 478587 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Really just playing Devil's Advocate here) < 1443077333 190327 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], redefining |x| will likely break less stuff (this is different from the 'poetic' way of defining a variable x such that |x|=-1 because absolute value is defined to be positive. Making a similar but not same operation as abs and calling it abs isn't so impossible. Doing that for equality or addition would likely result in an operation that behaved significantly differently from equality or addition) < 1443077355 70086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, depending on what you mean by *, a*b isn't always b*a < 1443077374 418040 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a and b are quaternions, the way multiplication is defined on them the order makes a difference < 1443077377 146267 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said + < 1443077379 545743 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not * < 1443077399 69159 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I know about quaternions < 1443077413 428719 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And octonions don't even satisfy associative < 1443077438 656100 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how's it work for sedenions? Do they not even satisfy closure? xD < 1443077446 957393 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :closure? < 1443077496 563420 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glares at hppavilion[1]  < 1443077513 646552 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1443077514 256444 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes hppavilion[0] < 1443077541 850815 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You /do/ realize hppavilion[1] is a pythonic array index, correct? < 1443077569 14007 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't closure the property that if you perform multiplication/addition on two numbers of the same type, they come out to the same type of number? < 1443077601 998987 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], was slightly unfamiliar with the term, I'm not a professional mathematician < 1443077605 464409 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y+z -) C Ay,z -) C? < 1443077614 548037 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use a crude notation < 1443077620 804874 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would have recognized "closed over operation" more readily < 1443077625 272061 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A being forall, -) being sets) < 1443077629 340830 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443077650 206043 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a professional mathematician eihter, just a guy who reads too much wikipedia on mathxD < 1443077659 975982 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hx/h x/ < 1443077685 418836 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ teh / the /gi < 1443077698 192684 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE JUST FIXED 20% OF TYPOS < 1443077996 479454 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also am not a real mathematician but I like to study many mathematical thing in Wikipedia and in the book and my own stuff by myself < 1443078604 889089 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1443079268 562047 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443079286 23138 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I think you haven't regenerated the image preview of the fontdemo < 1443079415 430920 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443081084 391080 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443081246 87152 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am not sure where the line is between not a real mathematician and a real mathematician < 1443081260 411208 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443081309 316689 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443081324 47486 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-218-160.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1443081464 898999 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero < 1443081865 103377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a complex issue < 1443082391 334647 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443082398 55637 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adnqsnbzoocfzhkb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1443082564 481796 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scientific rigor < 1443082578 518389 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you lose that, you're just a numerologist < 1443083386 846387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1443083486 710227 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not belong to any university and have never been published in a mathematical journal, therefore I must be not quite a real mathematician < 1443083522 459697 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got published on oeis, but im also not a real mathematician < 1443083612 47384 :blurelIse!~bluelse@c-67-168-205-81.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again idk if thats really considered being published < 1443084447 920157 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, the title of the latest OOTS strip (1006) is "Uninterrupted Torment", which sounds like it should be a M:tG card name. < 1443084451 320227 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not. < 1443084470 723606 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "Everlasting Torment" and "Neverending Torment" < 1443084610 896660 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443084739 155779 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443084795 311273 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443084886 290317 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443085136 734822 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1443085229 958364 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443085260 464651 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443086492 557097 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the heck does the new mulligan rule and reminders about it on http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles don't have a reminder text about "scry"? I mean, I know it's in Theros and Magic Origins, but it's not an evergreen mechanic, and won't appear in all sets. They should add a reminder text. < 1443086594 449918 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, good! Apparently the actual text that goes to the Comp Rules will not say "scry", it will spell out the action. < 1443086601 359060 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only the announcements that are stupid. < 1443086673 311959 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the comp rules also makes it clear when exactly you scry, namely after everyone has kept their opening hand, but before other turn zero actions. < 1443087035 613533 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comp rules update bulletin isn't up yet though. < 1443087108 217218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443088130 106942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443088757 317626 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1443089014 373432 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443089631 124798 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1443089659 320301 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443089670 347273 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1443089808 954386 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Client Quit < 1443090375 476263 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443090707 259422 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443090917 440326 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443091112 773919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, that was a new kind of personal conveyance device for me. It looked like a segway without the stick. Or a skateboard with two big wheels on either ends, except perpendicular. < 1443091146 869159 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen some like that < 1443091289 378035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if (*p_state == BORED) { free(boredom); *p_state = be_challenged(); } says an ad on this train. < 1443091326 131421 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, be_challenged returns an enum < 1443091477 949348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already switched trains, so I can't be sure if they assigned p_state or *p_state. < 1443091495 634680 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think that could lead to things going wrong < 1443091501 240320 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly even segfaults! < 1443091587 601774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was for these guys http://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/ < 1443091601 474612 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! I know someone who used to work for them < 1443091646 855734 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44380&oldid=42799 5* 03Martin Büttner 5* (+911) 10 < 1443091672 222297 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: doing marketing? < 1443091682 134428 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software, probably < 1443091728 714425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those "let's make our advert look like code" things often have code that couldn't possibly work < 1443091742 876952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what sort of variable name is "p_state"? < 1443091803 278113 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the state of the peas < 1443091830 599792 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or of the pee < 1443091929 136562 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"free(boredom)" in a conditional block is dubious at best. < 1443091972 28433 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe be-challenged does something with it. but it has to be global then < 1443091982 75494 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :global boredom < 1443091984 948395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be that p_state is tracking the allocation status of boredom? < 1443091998 393658 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443092041 250145 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, calling a function and rely on that may not be the best idea < 1443092093 436322 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe be_challenged does other things < 1443092115 714775 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true that programming in C is a very exciting and challenging activity. < 1443092130 217479 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I don't know, chooses a random activity and returns that < 1443092137 560261 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if p_state keeps track of the allocation status, it should do the if itself < 1443092353 445207 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that note, someone should make an esolang out of defect report 260 < 1443092358 930592 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_260.htm < 1443092499 947770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way they use (free) just in case free is a macro < 1443092517 103002 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that help? < 1443092556 878442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesn't, but I like it anyway < 1443092578 235391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: fwiw, some compilers have been caught comparing two pointers as equal, but having assignments through one not affect the value readable through the other < 1443092605 323247 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that when they compare only offset values? I think that's sometimes even valid < 1443092626 568281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no < 1443092673 277456 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that let them become Turing complete through the back door? < 1443092673 601929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is something like: x = malloc(sizeof *x); free(x); y = malloc(sizeof *x); if (x == y) { *x = 1; *y = 2; printf("%d", *x); } < 1443092675 503705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it prints 1 < 1443092693 979427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on some versions of clang < 1443092704 132197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(add declarations, main, etc. to produce a complete program) < 1443092734 939050 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's insane < 1443092793 155388 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's undefined behaviour I think < 1443092794 403956 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh... ok, dunno, I'll leave the language lawyers to figure out how they have to write those kinds of rules < 1443092818 232464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Jafet's link is about this < 1443092827 207869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(language lawyers discussing this situation) < 1443092836 866669 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: since x and y have identical values, why is it any less defined than using y only? < 1443092839 601743 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know. I think I'd rather not go into this. < 1443092840 598613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it is indeed undefined behaviour, but some people are surprised by the way that clang happens to interpret it < 1443092853 810956 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I didn't say it was unsurprising < 1443092857 113175 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crazy unions and memcpys were enough for me as for C magic. < 1443092898 753341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the official standards response about this sort of thing was: "The C Standard lays down no requirement that two inspections of the bits representing a given value will observe the same bit-pattern only that the observed pattern on each occasion will be a valid representation of the value." < 1443092923 363079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a bit longer, actually < 1443092939 10107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the official explanation seems to be that as x is a pointer to freed memory, its actual value is allowed to change spontaneously < 1443092988 360047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. x itself can change spontaneously, in addition to *x) < 1443093036 590235 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right. this is the strange kind of thing where if you write (in a function scope) int x; int y = x; that might cause undefined behaviour because x is uninitialized and can be of a trap value and even copying that trap value can cause UB < 1443093053 656328 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, since x gets an unspecified value, *x is undefined < 1443093054 865869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: and Itanium is one platform where that actually happens < 1443093063 245334 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's such a strange value that, like, even reading it into a register can be a problem, or the electrons are not cleaned up, or something? < 1443093080 164521 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, what happens excatly? < 1443093086 362281 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The B5000 was a CPU where you'd get this regularly, I believe < 1443093097 534535 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had only one native type, double precision floating point < 1443093098 672010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so on Itanium, fetching a memory address can give you a deferred exception < 1443093107 593520 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all other types were defined to be subsets of it < 1443093121 990886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then attempting to read the register that you were trying to store the value in sets off the actual exception < 1443093140 242688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's a pState that's been turned from camelCase to under_scores. < 1443093146 298617 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, but it's not permitted in C if you read a char, or an unsigned char, which is why memcpy works on even an uninitialized area (it conceptually copies chars or something similar, though the implementation may of course do whatever) < 1443093147 348278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so suppose the previous function did something like «if (x) {printf("%d", *x);}» < 1443093160 203746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x was NULL < 1443093168 332497 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, "fetching a memory address" can sure be bda if you're reading through a wrong pointer < 1443093179 404685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Itanium, the usual implementation would be to load x /before/ the test < 1443093186 390565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, to load *x < 1443093188 739978 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but here the address is valid, x is a local variable. reading it bytewise would be ok in C. < 1443093189 998737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifying a deferred exception < 1443093206 680369 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean through pointers. < 1443093209 759332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, suppose you call into a new function, and it chooses the same /register/ for x < 1443093220 979243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempting to do anything with x, other than assigning a new value to it, will cause the null pointer exception to happen < 1443093238 324460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, suppose it chooses the register for x that it previously chose for *x < 1443093257 430301 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, ok. < 1443093262 743152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x happens to be stored in memory (very unlikely for a local variable on Itanium) the problem couldn't happen < 1443093281 259838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why any argument involving pointers to x will miss the point (because that would force it into memory) < 1443093303 392401 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for this simple code, int x; int y = x; with nothing between, the compiler will probably see what you're doing rightaway. < 1443093396 424041 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443093416 535059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if a compiler looked at that code and thought "hmm, I need to force x into memory" < 1443093534 109446 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1443093561 730424 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, it will see undefined behaviour and optimise out all code that follows after that < 1443093577 152017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, the gcc approach to UB < 1443093586 924054 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://people.csail.mit.edu/nickolai/papers/wang-undef-2012-08-21.pdf < 1443093592 290093 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(section 2.7) < 1443093715 971366 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443093796 40735 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: and possibly give a warning, unless it can prove the code unreachable anyway < 1443094283 937320 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: OVERCOAT CHICKEN < 1443095779 57860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443097581 247518 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1443097764 964440 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1443097790 94792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443099294 438530 :S1!~S1@p4FF9201A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1443099503 855043 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443099540 385908 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe, hilarious bug: http://meta.stackexchange.com/q/266830/222298 < 1443099558 180062 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :404? < 1443099563 427014 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, deleted since < 1443099570 723525 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443099616 389092 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a security bug where typing a particular magic sequence in a chat room on chat.meta.stackexchange.com notifies everyone who has been in the chatroom the last seven days in their SE-wide inbox. < 1443099634 608844 :S1!~S1@p4FF9201A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come? < 1443099637 25332 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're supposed to be able to notify only a particular user you name in a chat message normally < 1443099648 176643 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :S1: no idea, the SE employees are debugging it right now < 1443099652 938396 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very new bug < 1443099656 211852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why would you link to a 404 page? you can't find useful information via it < 1443099664 261526 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it wasn't 404 yet when I linked < 1443099667 430724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1443099670 784474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :got deleted quickly because people would abuse it < 1443099677 551620 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it includes the actual character sequence < 1443099702 156788 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or you may have a high enough rep on meta to be able to view a "deleted" question) < 1443099710 370107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, like the sequence of 12 characters that crashes Chrome? (when you try to visit it as an URL or mousehover over an anchor that links to it like an URL) < 1443099725 880961 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1443099771 68664 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is 13 bytes long < 1443099786 241433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be 13? < 1443099795 451920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember what the sequence is, now < 1443099798 310324 :S1!~S1@p4FF9201A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which one was that? (the 12 char sequence) < 1443099803 387672 :S1!~S1@p4FF9201A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1443099803 565665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it in Chromium and it acted oddly but didn't crash < 1443099804 194142 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I mean the one that pings people on SE chat < 1443099808 93973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1443099812 331691 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about the Chromium one < 1443099835 512160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it was something like http:// and a NUL byte, double-URL-encoded < 1443099849 791271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the second layer of URL encoding didn't encode all the characters, just some of them < 1443099862 328980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably narrows it down to enough possibilities to find it by brute force < 1443099880 972366 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably fixed that since < 1443099882 2159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://%%30%30 perhaps, although that's 14 < 1443099901 713656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well the bug was reportedly with Chrome, and I tried it in Chromium just after it became public and didn't get a crash < 1443099976 897917 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, this reminds me to the very old bug around windows 95 where in MSIE following a link to file://C|/con/con would hang the machine. that was back when any external webpage could just have a clickable link to the file:// protocol < 1443099983 246690 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 NICK :vladmir_lenin < 1443099993 109227 :S1!~S1@p4FF9201A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1443100011 290303 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, windows 95 had tons of similar easy bugs, including ones much easier to exploit, like packets that crashed the networking system < 1443100035 955906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in IE 4 I created a recursive frameset once < 1443100042 170517 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"will undelete when I've pushed the fix" says an admin, so my link will be valid < 1443100047 566342 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443100058 352477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which crashed Explorer (not just IE; Explorer's the process that handles the desktop, Start menu, etc.) < 1443100076 190270 :vladmir_lenin!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 NICK :bender < 1443100083 809436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that ctrl-alt-delete was disabled on the computers I tested it on, doing anything from there (including logging out) became quite awkward < 1443100091 953573 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1443100288 255177 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was on what operating system? < 1443100303 29592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume Windows 95, not sure though < 1443100305 657323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been 98 < 1443100342 817775 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows 95, such a bug would probably leave the whole system unstable because not enough memory protection separating the processes. < 1443100356 97531 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would possibly just crash the whole system. < 1443100381 757466 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows 98, I think you'd just press control-escape to launch the task manager (if explorer isn't running), and restart explorer from there. < 1443100716 732479 :callforjudgement!~ais523@147.188.254.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443100716 950429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443100725 624266 :callforjudgement!~ais523@147.188.254.142 QUIT :Changing host < 1443100725 802236 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443100791 330529 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1443101132 324802 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1443101132 542502 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com NICK :`^_^v < 1443101181 242204 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443101629 443617 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443101637 140151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443101642 823213 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1443101992 140955 :MDream!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1443102341 247803 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443102824 198462 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443103255 689205 :TieSoul!~quassel@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443103262 293930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: meeting < 1443104304 327302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443105129 677671 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1443106282 267740 :adu!~ajr@static-108-48-76-162.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443107482 701795 :adu!~ajr@static-108-48-76-162.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1443108288 57788 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@2602:306:8039:e9e0:3cff:20fb:7815:f4cc JOIN :#esoteric < 1443108833 192682 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 NICK :hindi_me_soup < 1443108862 223159 :hindi_me_soup!heddwch@76.8.3.189 NICK :heddwch < 1443109019 554400 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443109708 963219 :adu!~ajr@static-108-48-76-162.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443109780 920437 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@2602:306:8039:e9e0:3cff:20fb:7815:f4cc QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443110342 891310 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@2602:306:8039:e9e0:3cff:20fb:7815:f4cc JOIN :#esoteric < 1443110908 823616 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@2602:306:8039:e9e0:3cff:20fb:7815:f4cc QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443111004 993413 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443111058 462492 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1443111476 526324 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.210.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443111598 412245 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH JOIN :#esoteric < 1443111647 29959 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.210.224 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443111800 206335 :diginet_!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443111860 471842 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443111860 649849 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443111862 440677 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443111872 984484 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443112090 977688 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1443112351 746296 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, for the most part, it should be possible to play Magic over IRC. < 1443112364 851135 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the players trust each other. < 1443112414 89007 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only think of one effect that wouldn't work, and that's looking at your opponent's library. < 1443113122 312044 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With proper program to do the stuff you could implement it even without as much trusting each other as normal, and allow looking in opponent's library < 1443113346 650380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: looking at face-down exiled cards your opponent controls < 1443113444 919024 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443113461 468273 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1443113479 166852 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellu < 1443113601 940448 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Template:Main article14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44381 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+28) 10Created Template < 1443113616 29846 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T STOP < 1443113749 936253 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Hedwig Notta14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44382&oldid=44379 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+249) 10Main article < 1443113754 957263 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did a solo test run of this deck. < 1443113755 135219 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was able to kill a passive opponent in only 14 turns. < 1443113755 135291 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woulda been nice if I hadn't missed the first four land drops. < 1443113861 878516 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Hedwig Notta14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44383&oldid=44382 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (-79) 10Removed an accidentally inserted raw link < 1443113876 810641 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Whoa? < 1443113882 648365 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't tell if that's good xD < 1443113981 181183 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's terrible. < 1443114018 525846 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been keeping track of game lengths. I think killing your opponent on turn 4 is pretty good. < 1443114019 376094 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1443114026 37443 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443114044 689131 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not defeating your opponent until turn 14 is reasonable if you're playing a highly defensive deck. < 1443114066 311906 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming that your opponent actually does something, which my imaginary opponent was not. < 1443114070 354692 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is supposed to be a highly aggressive deck. < 1443114079 525943 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really shoulda taken a mulligan. < 1443114081 841654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: turn 14 goldfish is /not/ good if you're anything other than a control deck < 1443114135 643843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the accepted turncount for a goldfish is 4 in Modern and 3 in Legacy, typically around 5 or 6 in Standard but it's just about to get shaken up so who knows < 1443114167 407301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where this doesn't necessarily mean winning, but rather doing something that would place you clearly in control of the game against a real opponent (winning is one way to do this but there are others) < 1443114176 962338 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe I should aim for 4 or 5 for the goldfish. < 1443114187 687453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which format is this? < 1443114199 769321 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard. < 1443114222 74849 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's redo that goldfish. < 1443114256 146709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that the mulligan rule changes in a few days' time < 1443114261 831383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should probably be testing with the new one < 1443114296 170526 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah. < 1443114689 583166 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That time I made it on turn 6. Much better, but this still kinda felt weak. < 1443114833 500440 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what happens if I just make a deck entirely out of creatures with mana cost no more than 3. < 1443114863 612520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: a typical creature aggro deck has most of its creatures at mana cost 1 or 2 < 1443114866 309338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some burn < 1443114871 277857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other way to end the game < 1443114871 936813 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should need some mana source too < 1443114875 641801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to be red, as a result < 1443114911 80696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the white version has nearly all its creatures at converted mana cost 2, takes a little longer to win, and tries to pick creature abilities to slow down the opponent < 1443115127 910048 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a good idea to put in a mountain or two. < 1443115132 958553 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or twenty or thirty. < 1443115275 782562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1443115280 549181 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, Flooded Strand says, "T, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Flooded Strand: Search your library for a Plains or Island card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library." < 1443115290 637831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 is the accepted number for most monocolor decks, but pure aggro decks can go with less < 1443115300 484109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 19 is quite common? maybe 20 < 1443115318 489801 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tranquil Cove says, "Tranquil Cove enters the battlefield tapped. When Tranquil Cove enters the battlefield, you gain 1 life. T: Add W or U to your mana pool." < 1443115356 156343 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me like Flooded Strand has several disadvantages; the only advantage is that you can get one mana the same turn that you play it. < 1443115365 312623 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443115369 186881 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rkitacvmqthjakeq JOIN :#esoteric < 1443115370 356188 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Flooded Strand is much much more expensive than Tranquil Cove. < 1443115386 417577 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Flooded Strand in fact significantly better than Tranquil Cove? < 1443115386 595523 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've invented a programming language that requires a supercomputer of Googlic proportions (or at least a high-end beowulf cluster) to make it work well and fast < 1443115389 945477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flooded Strand is way better. < 1443115396 984397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: it is, and for three reasons < 1443115413 997562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) flooded strand gives you mana immediately, which in tempo-driven formats is important < 1443115477 538271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) flooded strand gets a plains or island, not a /basic/ plains or island; thus, if you have appropriate dual lands in your deck, it produces two colours, and you get a free choice of one and a choice from two of the other (i.e. 7 of the 10 pairs) < 1443115503 187139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c) flooded strand is part of a number of combos, some of which define legacy (most of them rely on either the fact that it puts a card in your graveyard, or the fact that it shuffles your library) < 1443115518 552839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although some of the combos in standard rely on the fact that it puts two lands into play on the same turn) < 1443115526 308921 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analogy:Simile, that is < 1443115528 732870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aer a few combos with tranquil cove but they have a much lower power level < 1443115539 936094 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Neat. < 1443115572 599275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fetchland (i.e. flooded strand and friends) + brainstorm is found in a very high proportion of legacy decks < 1443115575 710503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all the ones that run blue < 1443115598 972072 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1443115607 309510 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Analogy:Simile is going to run on neural networks < 1443115624 340777 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will use R-like data handling properties to detect correlations < 1443115663 528047 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443115675 892265 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A file will be a renamed .tar.gz archive containing a ".ats" file which would be the main file and a "meta.zfg" or something that would define the properties of the neural network < 1443115866 424181 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if my deck has some Plateaus, some Savannahs, some Scrublands, some Tropical Islands, some Tundras, some Underground Seas, and some Volcanic Islands, then Flooded Strand will easily let me get any type of mana. < 1443115954 147714 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, each of those would cost me about seventy bucks. < 1443116016 331696 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a couple hundred. < 1443116143 186902 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1443116193 277841 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443116223 846097 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443116390 191418 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443116400 421241 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443116503 397813 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443116505 6158 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443116641 239468 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1443116655 472453 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443116743 441348 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443117078 403745 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, lemme try out this funky reduced deck. < 1443117119 872610 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443117122 57060 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back. There was a test. < 1443117171 418345 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443117450 452069 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443117497 640247 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1443117579 130626 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn 6 goldfish, turn 9 goldfish, turn 6 goldfish, turn 6 goldfish, turn 6 goldfish. < 1443117595 78684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that… is still not very good, if it's using the entire set of all cards ever < 1443117605 800316 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's Standard. < 1443117613 663414 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think that's still not very good. < 1443117614 653538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1443117638 439282 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you did say 5 or 6 for a goldfish. < 1443117651 790194 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that this is aggro, presumably I'd want to average 5 or under. < 1443117702 306429 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme look for things I might want to add... < 1443117748 34487 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One kind of card to make up might be: Fateseal 1, and then target opponent draws a card. < 1443117764 189943 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443117783 125257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a) that isn't strong; b) Wizards refuse to print fateseal nowadays on the basis that people don't like playing against it < 1443117952 397823 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it isn't very strong, but if the mana cost is low enough then it does not have to be, and/or if it is usable more than once possibly (costing "{1U}, {T}" on an artifact or land or whatever) < 1443117980 317319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think the mana cost would have to be about -3 before that was usable < 1443117984 255490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe less < 1443117995 660398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's probably usable at -2 < 1443118000 699674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some decks would want that, most wouldn't < 1443118091 888224 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is overpowered at a negative cost; the minimum possible cost should be {0} < 1443118109 112980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you seen Simian Spirit Guide? < 1443118113 109802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort-of has a cost of {-R} < 1443118124 318046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then has an alternate mode of casting < 1443118127 280958 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's a cute name. Goblin Kaboomist. < 1443118132 601199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few decks that use it, most don't want that effect though < 1443118193 588569 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have seen it, that is a bit different. < 1443118218 837642 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can earn mana or summon a creature, not both. < 1443118219 905612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As an addition cost to cast ~, add {U} to your mana pool." < 1443118223 450904 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a card? < 1443118230 741876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :additional < 1443118230 946355 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1443118263 344110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no < 1443118278 252829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: indeed < 1443118286 406093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any abilities, maybe? < 1443118288 900809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however basically nobody summons a creature with the card outside Limited < 1443118299 700749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory costs can be anything, I suppose. < 1443118302 297396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a card that does nothing for {-R}, and has an alternative mode of paying {2}{R} for a 2/2 < 1443118319 637954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=122123 < 1443118331 212988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it'd help if you stated the card's name rather than just the link < 1443118336 398443 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1443118338 671119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can know what card it is without having to wait for Gatherer to load < 1443118339 212715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braid of Fire < 1443118350 708829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works during your upkeep < 1443118359 289189 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As an additional cost to play this card, you win the game." < 1443118359 467364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I'd still love to see someone break that card < 1443118361 825937 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1443118364 639326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes Gatherer links have a name rather than a multiverseid. < 1443118365 267113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the timing restriction makes it difficult < 1443118380 549027 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Countering it doesn't work; you win the game before your opponent gets priority. < 1443118430 855573 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would *definitely* play the card I just mentioned at a cost of -2; I think that is way too small and at {0} it would be good as an instant. (Forcing opponent to draw card if it cannot be used as an instant isn't quite as good) < 1443118587 63082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at cards like http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Adarkar+Unicorn I have to remember that mana burn used to exist. < 1443118626 363143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, for that matter, I guess it existed for Braid of Fire too. < 1443118648 296540 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. Mana abilities that you can play as an interrupt. < 1443118704 924959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Braid of Fire was in standard at the same time as storage lands, which conveniently have an ability that becomes "{1}: add {0} to your mana pool" if played with X=0 < 1443118711 611640 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was when they had interrupt; all mana abilities were interrupts, on lands they were implicitly interrupts I think but on other cards they are not implicitly interrupts < 1443118731 144555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interrupts left before Braid of Fire arrived by a /long/ way, though < 1443118733 212395 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443118742 768865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Coldsnap may be part of Ice Age block, but it was released much later and retconned in) < 1443118785 787243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there are some interesting cumulative upkeeps out there. < 1443118788 758154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Herald+of+Leshrac < 1443118800 620956 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443118802 181566 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, an early version of the mana ability rule: "Adding mana to your mana pool is always considered an interrupt." < 1443118826 411047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's one of my favourites < 1443118850 27405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the one with "cumulative upkeep: target opponent gains one life" seems like it'd be really good in Commander, which is all about politics < 1443119027 554457 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't forget this: < 1443119029 538294 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By mutual consent, players may agree not to play for ante. This is recommended until you get a feel for the game." < 1443119135 231428 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a copy of the old rules on the computer? I would find it very useful for use with old Magic: the Puzzling < 1443119162 165810 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443119183 786138 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/jc20 - the original rules < 1443119214 995150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Reality+Twist < 1443119413 869631 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443119491 427541 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443119578 253195 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443119588 312091 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a copy of the Fourth Edition rules though? < 1443119614 883725 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1443119622 996848 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a thing as mana that can be used for any color? < 1443119660 169228 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a language like Rocket < 1443119686 431179 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that uses plenty of instrucitons, but makes very short programs < 1443119731 802874 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :?T!=F:x=5;x=4 is equivalent to < 1443119731 980850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1443119747 579533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: no, cards tend to generate mana of any color instead < 1443119754 633584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. it can only be used for one color but you can choose which) < 1443119791 92696 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a card could say, "Add 1 to your mana pool. You may spend this mana as if it were mana of any color." < 1443119811 681272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is e.g. http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Celestial+Dawn < 1443119812 477892 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :true = 1 == 1; < 1443119812 725445 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :false = 1 != 1; < 1443119812 903784 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(true != false) { < 1443119812 903842 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = 5; < 1443119812 903879 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :} else { < 1443119813 492773 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = 4; < 1443119815 475563 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1443119820 455761 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In dynamic-variable c) < 1443119837 891379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't paste that much text in the channel. :-( < 1443119850 701778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I was going to mention Celestial Dawn too, except that I couldn't remember what it was called < 1443119852 522547 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1443119865 409810 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had to add code for demonstration purposes < 1443119916 749719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few other cards with similar effects. < 1443120147 483555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you could have put it all on one line < 1443120188 745723 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could've, but that would've been hard to read < 1443120219 235031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it would have been easier to read < 1443120236 879664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true = 1 == 1; false = 1 != 1; if (true != false) { x = 5; } else { x = 4 } < 1443120238 508113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1443120253 604054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't have a bunch of repeats of your nick in the middle < 1443120365 829452 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe NICK :wentgoat10^2 < 1443120373 150118 :wentgoat10^2!nortti@ayu.smar.moe NICK :nortti < 1443120383 652370 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 NICK :gonegoat^16 < 1443120386 572898 :gonegoat^16!heddwch@76.8.3.189 NICK :heddwch < 1443120535 981243 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1443120537 120947 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird < 1443120594 55066 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goldfish turn 6, goldfish turn 6, goldfish turn 6, goldfish turn 5, goldfish turn 6. < 1443120601 498174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: probably related to a different channel < 1443120609 527089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicks are global, but nick jokes are often local < 1443120614 767387 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it seems decently consistent. < 1443120629 492392 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean the fact that it's easier to read on one line < 1443120637 435717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: this is usually the case in IRC < 1443120643 936994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bots tend to output as one line for that reason < 1443120646 807895 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true < 1443120657 546284 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/loudly < 1443120661 415660 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, itertools \ inp = len(sys.argv) >= 2 and sys.argv[1] or raw_input() \ cyc = itertools.cycle(["\00304,09","\00309,04"]) \ print "".join(cyc.next() + c for c in inp) < 1443120664 93814 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I disavow that code. < 1443120675 38291 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it using echo and sed. < 1443120692 144003 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443120933 875987 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can make that language work xD < 1443121059 770945 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another revision... < 1443121399 449060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cumulative upkeep -- Place an age counter on ~" < 1443121873 76485 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goldfish turn 6, goldfish turn 5, goldfish turn 5, goldfish turn 5, goldfish turn 6. < 1443121896 295023 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is actually starting to feel kinda decent. < 1443121925 921484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: haha < 1443121933 688473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would anything interact with the age counters? < 1443121946 992546 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44384&oldid=44380 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+119) 10/* Syntax highlighting. */ < 1443121956 401001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some enchantments add cumulative upkeep to an existing card. < 1443121964 59096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mostly with negative effects, I think. < 1443122181 336468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up one card that adds "cumulative upkeep {0}" to the enchanted permanent < 1443122339 613536 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect the rules to say that multiple instances of cumulative upkeep don't result in multiple age counters being added each upkeep step. < 1443122382 515261 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do add multiple age counters < 1443122406 763744 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example 702.23b explicitly says so. < 1443122414 598252 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, you're right. < 1443122494 13395 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now I guess the question is if I can add anything to this deck to make it even faster. < 1443122584 114050 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, Rust looks sort of neat but i don't know where to start / what to write in it that's especially Rust-y :( < 1443122604 558497 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an operating system in Rust. < 1443122610 584411 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very good. It has two features. < 1443122694 614769 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do want to win the game in about five or six turns, I guess things with a CMC of 5 or 6 aren't going to be especially useful. < 1443122695 554860 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1443122720 64169 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're talking about crazy M:tG stuff < 1443122767 250507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: indeed < 1443122790 988341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are "midrange" decks nowadays which aim to block smaller creatures and go over the top of the aggro decks < 1443122804 912892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're rapidly becoming the most popular sort of deck, mostly because Wizards keeps nerfing everything else < 1443122814 29845 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the latest OotS strip has the title "Uninterrupted Torment". that sounded like it has to be an M:tG card name, so I checked. it's not, but "Everlasting Torment" and "Neverending Torment" are. < 1443122825 933472 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doink. I wonder why this Gatherer search isn't giving me anything: < 1443122827 517749 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&format=+[%22Standard%22]&color=+[R]|[C]&type=+![%22Creature%22] < 1443122850 791015 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode t=+ < 1443122851 603975 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+003D EQUALS SIGN] [U+002B PLUS SIGN] < 1443122879 778251 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why my client decided that the second equals sign in that URL is the first character after the URL. < 1443122888 223532 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me read up < 1443122894 383655 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering making my λ-calculus tool not allow you to type syntactically invalid λ-expressions < 1443122912 188184 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, don't let a user type "λx..x" < 1443122912 750522 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: oh, that sounds like something it'd be good at < 1443122920 671897 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should emulate a gameboy or something < 1443122930 168140 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that might break workflow and force workarounds when you wnat to insert something < 1443122936 144962 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure if you'd ever need to do that < 1443122939 841866 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit < 1443122945 339000 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to go off for a test < 1443122945 675228 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that actually sounds like a ton of work, how do people stand to write emulators) < 1443122949 193013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :“ I was able to kill a passive opponent in only 14 turns.” … that's bad. < 1443122956 134286 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly Famicom might be easier < 1443122961 820866 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: sure is! < 1443122968 294176 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or make an implementation of QUACKVM, which is far simpler < 1443122973 755923 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: don't do that IMO < 1443122992 951668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: the advanced search actually seems to be broken < 1443122998 84390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's generating malformed search URLs < 1443123010 283340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, try changing your "R" and "C" to "Red" and "Colorless", in quotes < 1443123019 743411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might help, as that seems to be what it was trying to generate < 1443123021 492632 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This works: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&format=+[%22Standard%22]&color=|[R]|[C]&type=+![%22Creature%22] < 1443123033 696789 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :“ I wonder what happens if I just make a deck entirely out of creatures with mana cost no more than 3.” – I hear such decks can be good these days. wait, what format are you building for? < 1443123038 904317 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many problems with the searching function in Gatherer; only very simple things work < 1443123043 22859 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The expression has to contain |[R]|[C] instead of &[R]|[C]. < 1443123045 115515 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: (pretty much for the reason you mentioned) < 1443123047 39587 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Standard. < 1443123068 644931 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a SQLite database of it and then use that to search instead < 1443123084 100439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: is this standard as of now, or standard as of a couple of weeks from now? < 1443123088 863090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people are focusing on the latter < 1443123092 678657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, *tswett: < 1443123104 276575 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The intersection of the two. < 1443123219 835713 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443123394 584640 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1443123493 309843 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1443123559 126831 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, about M:tG, I was wondering on a particular effect red has, namely when it puts a creature of your choice from your hand onto the battlefield with haste, but temporarily, so you {sacrifice, exile, bounce, destroy etc} it {at the end of turn, at end of combat, your next upkeep, some other specified time}. < 1443123579 501426 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Sclipting14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44385&oldid=41647 5* 03Timwi 5* (+0) 10oops < 1443123586 875328 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was sort of an expensive but staple effect that was done often on red cards. It turns out no. Only about three cards do it: Through the Breach, Sneak Attack, and about one more. < 1443123610 412481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then M:tG people explained to me that this is no longer done because it's no longer fun when Emrakul is in the same format. < 1443123637 404078 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I was wondering, could this be done but limited to creature cards with converted mana cost 3 or less? < 1443123643 334800 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if so, how much would it have to cost? < 1443123654 149366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is yes, and 2 or 3 < 1443123663 680418 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, there's still Elvish Piper and a similar card with a piper effect in M12 < 1443123673 920242 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those don't give haste but aren't for one turn only < 1443123741 903487 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443123745 147918 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back < 1443123761 24438 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finished the test. 100%. He graded it with an app on his phone. My mind is blown. < 1443123792 508716 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The M12 card is Quicksilver Amulet < 1443123816 498060 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a colorless Elvish Piper < 1443123878 500642 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as an instant? or a repeatable activated ability on a permanent? < 1443123896 687146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: was thinking the activation on an enchantment < 1443123905 334982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the activation and the enchantment itself would likely have similar costs < 1443123920 490886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, _enchantment_? That's hard because you don't want to put a {T} cost on it < 1443123937 590963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want to put a {T} cost on it < 1443123938 707267 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it might not be a big problem if it consumes a card < 1443123946 7553 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1443123965 591857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that a card that gives all your creatures haste is pretty cheap (probably about {1}{R} nowadays), and giving them haste but exiling them at end of turn is normally worse < 1443123995 166333 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any known undecidable states for MtG? Like StackFlow intends to create < 1443124042 938005 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I believe so. IIRC, someone implemented a Turing machine in Magic. < 1443124060 771700 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: iirc that relied on the players making decisions < 1443124067 447125 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A player could always choose to end the cycle < 1443124082 622824 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: yes, ais523 has a construction of a Turing machine, with a small but probably fixable bug < 1443124093 914732 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: and it's documented on the esowiki < 1443124105 924065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that is StackFlow < 1443124131 376519 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, is there one without the bug < 1443124131 952110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the StackFlow construction isn't meant to provide any opportunity to make decisions (you get priority but with an empty hand and no activatable abilities; I even blew up all the lands) < 1443124132 857650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh whatever. You don't want efficiency, there's probably a translation. < 1443124147 403040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a bug in it where two abilities stack at the same time and you can choose which order to stack them in and it makes a difference < 1443124154 167371 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: if you want one without a bug, go and fix it somehow. < 1443124159 192220 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably a fixable bug. < 1443124164 214198 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't know magic well enough < 1443124177 842434 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hot Soup" is weird, flavor-wise. < 1443124394 416142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was apparently designed entirely based on the flavour < 1443124406 50850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me think it's a reference to something I'm unaware of < 1443124481 194577 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it strange? < 1443124525 254156 :grotewold!~grotewold@98.75.244.66.corn.smithvilledigital.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443124526 253554 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :One doesn't normally think of hot soup as a type of artifact, weapon, or equipment. < 1443124541 385728 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the creature is holding something dangerous (a vat of hot oil, a double-edged sword, a weird bomb that can explode any time, it's called "hot soup" here), whcih is not only dangerous but also scary, so you don't want to block it. but he's holding something that will explode in his own face easily. < 1443124547 472005 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I get it—yeah, that. < 1443124554 708760 :grotewold!~grotewold@98.75.244.66.corn.smithvilledigital.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1443124560 958796 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: what? why not, hot oil is a weapon < 1443124572 929448 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it doesn't say "hot oil". < 1443124573 486736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use it to defend castles all the time in stories < 1443124583 321817 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot soup is the goblin version < 1443124620 532941 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443124652 147398 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think I'm getting it. < 1443124698 326670 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1443124725 337993 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't shake the intuition that adding cards to a deck will make it stronger. < 1443124916 680235 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since this deck has 210 cards, it must be unbeatable. < 1443124957 668627 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 210 cards? that's scary. what deck is it and what format? < 1443124974 112158 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: is it Battle of Wits combo? < 1443124986 884592 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to get rid of all but 60 later. < 1443124991 266123 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's about the only excuse to play such a large deck < 1443124995 952137 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Battle of Wits < 1443125009 524747 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in formats with 100 card minimum deck size < 1443125030 284672 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, except in crazy formats where people draw from a shared cube deck, not separate libraries < 1443125064 300481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they draw either from the shared deck or a basic land of their choice, to be more precise) < 1443125155 89465 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget Prismatic. < 1443125163 695954 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got my λ-calculus GUI working. It now will insert λ on backslash, optionally prevent you from making syntax errors, and on it executes the script and opens a second (non-editable) text area that has the evaluated output in it (though evaluation currently just returns the raw lexed script) < 1443125173 811961 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: what's Prismatic again? < 1443125177 489690 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No menu bar to save files or anything, though < 1443125202 302683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: six cards of each colour, one with each CMC from 1 to 6, plus a few other things which I forget < 1443125209 346480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably colorless cards and land < 1443125215 205073 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh right. I haven't heared of that for a long while. < 1443125224 841863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone really plays it any more < 1443125229 557441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who liked it mostly play Commander now < 1443125231 152712 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: when evaluation is ready, go try the Y < 1443125233 41124 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deck must be at least 250 cards, and must contain 20 cards of each color; multicolored cards count as one color of your choice. < 1443125241 11863 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/rules/prismatic < 1443125244 66410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1443125248 735556 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: The Y-Combinator?? < 1443125248 966466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm thinking of something else < 1443125252 927954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prismatic Stairwell or something < 1443125256 225615 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: yeah < 1443125261 236325 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1443125265 76772 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will < 1443125271 930785 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'd like to try is simply 60 or 100 card singleton (at most one of each non-basic card) multiplayer, without any commander or such crazy rules. < 1443125286 278649 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I see < 1443125308 331630 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came up with a rather silly format idea. < 1443125309 730628 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: isn't that much easier these days with so many hybrid cards in print? < 1443125321 978558 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443125329 298600 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: go on < 1443125331 109419 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. But if you were to use cards with all five colors, you'd still need 100 of them, not 20. < 1443125333 232997 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... < 1443125359 286729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 100 card singleton is a real format, which I think Wizards sanction in some cases < 1443125363 86544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps Magic Online?) < 1443125363 515373 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like the vanilla format of your choice, except your deck must be exactly 10 cards and you're limited to one of each non-basic card. < 1443125370 971684 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: sure, but I could play with three colors of mana base, and use red-white and red-green hybrid cards to cover the 20 red cards, withut ever paying for them with red mana < 1443125376 430525 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The λ-calculus program supports λ-expressions and named λ-expressions (I = λx.x) < 1443125386 191840 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in multiplayer, or duel? < 1443125393 710873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: there may well be a Vintage version of that which always wins on turn 1, barring an opposing Force of Will or the like < 1443125396 187766 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, will support < 1443125398 364304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: duel I think, not sure though < 1443125401 351096 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1443125419 231405 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additional rule: drawing a card is always optional. < 1443125495 510999 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: wait, there was some such crazy format someone mentioned: your deck is five cards singleton, drawing is not optional, at game start you arrange your deck as you choose (don't shuffle) and draw a starting hand of zero. < 1443125514 176519 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443125521 536838 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds pretty interesting. < 1443125530 979099 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so easy to even make a deck that can win. < 1443125538 291989 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like a crazy puzzle format. < 1443125557 121934 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1443125650 133223 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somewhat easier now that we have Elixir of Immortality which you can use with two lands, as opposed to the very expensive Beacons from Fifth Dawn. < 1443125705 880442 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443125726 447784 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443125853 92078 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think you can do Mountain, Mountain, Lava Spike, Elixir of Immortality, Lava Spike < 1443125864 39053 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's probably not the best thing you can do < 1443125972 50614 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Elixir of Immortality gives you 5 life, which combos with Channel+Fireball < 1443126062 504605 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you heard of this five cards arranged yet? it's an interesting puzzle to think of < 1443126067 92145 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a really good solution < 1443126114 746361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I've seen similar rulesets before but maybe not that one < 1443126131 694565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the one I knew was three cards, they all start in your hand, drawing from an empty library doesn't cause you to lose) < 1443126143 120393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the solutions seem to involve Black Lotus somehow < 1443126174 671204 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, so you can take any number of turns? hmm < 1443126183 634871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laboratory Maniac is another card that seems good in both formats < 1443126214 837561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although if you change your Lava Spikes to Lightning Bolts, you beat at least the most basic versions of the Laboratory Maniac deck) < 1443126237 233541 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but in that case, can't you just play a plains and an Elite Vanguard and attack in the next 10 turns? < 1443126275 105951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes but that loses to most decks because they have faster ways to win < 1443126358 826059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can just burn your creature < 1443126370 885017 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Laboratory Maniac < 1443126372 106637 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1443126378 365926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, does your format allow sideboards? < 1443126385 963389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably do some interesting things with Research//Development < 1443126390 379737 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... dunno < 1443126435 428915 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443126731 894703 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think your normal maximum hand size is still 7, even if your starting hand has 0 cards < 1443126883 641710 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in that three card format, how about Mental Misstep, Plains, Elite Vanguard, and hope that the opponent plays a combo that the Mental Misstep disrupts completely < 1443126895 559126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that was a common sort of build, yes < 1443126921 158773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the cleverer versions involved force of will and some method of winning with one card (e.g. memnite), where if you /didn't/ need the force of will the blue card was useful on its own < 1443126932 243585 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443126943 896962 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even play a Memnite or Dryad Arbor and two Force of Will < 1443126944 711086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, something like island, fugitive wizard, daze works on similar principles < 1443126951 411191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but requires you to go first < 1443126958 798474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah but two force of will is pointless < 1443126968 282791 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah true, one is probably enough < 1443126968 659768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dryad arbor is clever though < 1443126979 130571 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually own a Dryad Arbor < 1443127019 136297 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, Island and Daze is a good idea < 1443127027 297748 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew some such counter exists < 1443127130 48872 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443127216 581290 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. What if my opponents in the tournament turn out not to be goldfish? < 1443127239 930409 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then use islandwalkers < 1443127272 943338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haneb < 1443127282 662640 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachello < 1443127323 548161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you jamming now? < 1443127336 277508 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1443127347 785294 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't own a sugar thermometer < 1443127355 155911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"jamming" means "playing magic: the gathering" among other things < 1443127355 851823 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443127367 998595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK, if I can have duplicate cards, what about this for your format?: Black Lotus, Orim's Chant, Soul Warden, Black Lotus, Assemble the Legion < 1443127388 529241 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: on occasion, not much or very well < 1443127395 733020 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying very hard to not spend money on it < 1443127413 5605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: if you come to california you can have a bunch of free jams hth < 1443127423 285862 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do the same in York < 1443127424 899048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Orim's Chant beats pretty much any attempt you could make at an early combo; and Soul Warden + Assemble the Legion gives quadratically growing amount of blockers and life, thus quickly outpacing any linearly growing damage or creature strategy tou might have < 1443127459 43465 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: turn 5 win that works even if opponent has a blocker: Lotus Bloom, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Stifle < 1443127498 61825 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do want to make that almost-guaranteed lose deck < 1443127498 323581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: black lotus > lotus bloom, surely? < 1443127501 694737 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something better than Lotus Bloom for this, that gives only two mana? < 1443127505 280255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are we just banning black lotus for being absurd? < 1443127514 384264 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Black Lotus is VERY expensive < 1443127522 490578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, but it's a hypothetical format < 1443127529 78214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming we wouldn't need the physical cards < 1443127530 369900 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the Phyrexian Dreadnought can costs 20 dollars, it's not a cheap card < 1443127540 94749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just discussion over IRC < 1443127543 592403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a Black Lotus, even the cheapest version, is very expensive < 1443127547 860883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it like BF Joust: both players submit their deck list < 1443127550 609702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we work out who wins < 1443127554 448391 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, for theory you could mention Black Lotus, < 1443127561 793407 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd prefer something that doesn't include such inaccessible cards < 1443127576 489591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case you need a banlist < 1443127598 86256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could go with the Legacy banlist, or maybe (if it's about accessibility) ban the Reserved List (except nobody can remember what's on it) < 1443127612 659039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be great if a format than bans all cards over a price threshold became popular. < 1443127623 263972 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, Legacy ban list might work < 1443127627 651890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that'd be crazy, as soon as a deck started doing well it would ban itself < 1443127632 541673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1443127642 812687 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, strict price ban is a bad idea < 1443127644 599736 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what format do you guys play in CA? < 1443127655 924757 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, I'd prefer not to use the power 9 for a thing like this < 1443127656 566873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's do Legacy ban list then, because at least it's easy to look up and I can remember most of it < 1443127669 586412 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally play commander < 1443127676 282111 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely don't use the Reserved list though, that list is just stupid < 1443127687 494138 :aretecode!~aretecode@50.23.131.206-static.reverse.softlayer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1443127701 499765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it is mostly a list of the most expensive cards, though (by design!) < 1443127701 966830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: We played Jamstandard, which allowed all cards from Innistrad onward. < 1443127705 918393 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something instead of Lotus Bloom or Black Lotus that works here? < 1443127734 684562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how much time do you have? the time spiral cycle of storage lands can produce unlimited mana given sufficient time (might need another land to help out) < 1443127756 490573 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd specifically like Phyrexian Dreadnought + Stifle to win in turn 4 instead of turn 5 < 1443127761 374400 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your format < 1443127783 936918 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443127792 250919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this means that you have to play both spells turn 3, right? < 1443127799 696755 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, turn 2 < 1443127803 412088 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have haste < 1443127816 567589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, you mean the three card format < 1443127821 394394 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, three card format < 1443127823 650897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without resorting to black lotus < 1443127832 239425 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1443127838 269824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the three card format was basically designed around black lotus originally, but after a while they had a rolling ban list < 1443127845 389541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the most popular card each week was banned for the next week < 1443127847 843379 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait, Lotus Bloom lets you play in turn 4, not turn 3 < 1443127863 394197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what the decks were like then < 1443127877 670868 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would that ban Black Lotus every other week? < 1443127886 327483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bans were permanent once enacted, sorry < 1443127889 823794 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1443127892 230573 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1443127898 376706 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't you have lots of ties though? < 1443127904 395401 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only three cards per deck < 1443127923 706458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not normally, because most people added ways to screw up enemy strategies < 1443127940 290446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm having problems playing stiflenought quickly off one card < 1443127956 280033 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any of the Leylines help in the three-card format? < 1443127982 390636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them are either hosers, or require mana < 1443128006 990470 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there some old card that lets you get two mana somehow? < 1443128015 170482 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though probably you could get only two colorless < 1443128049 638445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there are at least two Legacy-legal lands that produce {2} (with drawbacks you don't care about) < 1443128052 875519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in this format) < 1443128065 914107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a few cards that scale based on what you have in play < 1443128075 949504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are kind-of useless in a 3-card format but would work for this elsewhere < 1443128112 85962 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :five card arrange no starting draw: “Black Lotus, Orim's Chant, Soul Warden, Black Lotus, Assemble the Legion” -- Orim's Chant is intersting, probably a very good choice, but Assemble the Legion costs five mana, so how do you play for all of this with two lotuses? < 1443128127 741033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a hilarious (tier 2 or maybe 3) Legacy deck whose perfect hand is five leylines, opalescence, serra's sanctum < 1443128141 310289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there are two possibilities < 1443128153 265988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the opponent's strategy is screwed up by the orim's chant, you use that to make the opponent useless < 1443128156 394556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then kill them with the soul warden < 1443128162 798588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't, you don't cast the orim's chant at all < 1443128192 531800 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1443128198 623 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, it might work < 1443128254 399117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the big problem with my assemble the legion deck is that it can't beat a laboratory maniac < 1443128270 409448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither by preventing it resolving nor by killing it nor by winning first < 1443128289 59768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess maybe I should be playing some general-purpose 3-mana removal spell over orim's chant < 1443128570 115301 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't understand why you play Soul Warden < 1443128601 509501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so that if someone is recurring lava spikes or the like < 1443128603 350481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I outpace them < 1443128609 71281 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can basic lands be banned if one becomes the most popular during the week? < 1443128612 466784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise they might be able to burn me out before I get to 20 < 1443128615 234722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think so < 1443128619 250157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are tons of substitutes < 1443128623 417845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a format like this < 1443128627 401233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Pendelhaven over Forest < 1443128629 869029 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1443128630 547008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will work in most decks < 1443128658 826449 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, with one popular card banned, this format could get very strange after some weeks < 1443128665 700926 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with or without lands < 1443128674 354946 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what constitutes an "almost-guaranteed lose deck"? < 1443128707 470674 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading about it, some Magic blog posted an April fools joke that described a deck guaranteed to end the game on the first turn or something < 1443128783 289305 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the five card format, if you can play two Black Lotuses (that would be sick, it's restricted in Vintage afterall), then two Black Lotus, two Brain Freeze, and some defensive card < 1443128807 860374 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443128835 752562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: actually, in the five card format < 1443128839 230041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mill seems very, very strong < 1443128844 610393 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1443128865 224908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turn 3 ancestral recall on the draw outright wins, and that only costs one mana < 1443128869 22517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you aim it at your opponent) < 1443128916 734298 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the 5 card format? < 1443128926 980738 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't win outright. wins against some decks, but not all < 1443128933 931469 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443128946 445892 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your opponent has drawn only one card yet, draws 3 for Ancestral Recall, one on his next turn < 1443128949 929791 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might win then < 1443128958 676299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm reminded that there was a time where the top deck in the format (which dominated) had mill as its win condition, and could only mill finitely many cards < 1443128959 377398 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it sounds strong, but not an outright win < 1443128964 547446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people were beating it with a deck of 600 island < 1443128983 292671 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 600 island? that'd be hard to shuffle < 1443128989 831528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: maximum+minimum deck size 5, starting hand size 0, you can reorder your library at the start of the game < 1443128998 823730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there's some debate about whether you have to shuffle if all the cards are the same < 1443129004 739404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all orderings are equally random < 1443129049 611014 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have played an infinite life deck where one of my win strategies is to just wait for about 60 turns for the opponents to mill, and reshuffle my own deck. I also have creatures, but those can be foiled by many decks. < 1443129075 746611 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a VERY bad deck the play against, so I only played it once so far. < 1443129081 969248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should rebuild it some time and play it again. < 1443129109 775404 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'd rather want to build a green-blue infinite mana deck now. I did build one but there's many new cards that make it much better now. < 1443129119 150914 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was ages ago when I built it. < 1443129191 344661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do if the opponent has an emrakul? < 1443129205 119879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should arrange a magic-over-IRC thing anyway < 1443129215 846628 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: found it: Seafloor Debris. Add that to Phyrexian Dreadnought and Stifle. < 1443129221 762552 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knwe there had to be such a land. < 1443129242 263454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no money needs spending, no copyright issues as we're just doing a play-by-play with no actual copy involved, no actual cards needed < 1443129260 151758 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, you can play with proxies in person too < 1443129264 386668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that can't create two on the same turn < 1443129264 564546 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like the physical cards < 1443129265 775677 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're nice < 1443129272 328400 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm true < 1443129273 348141 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1443129275 242124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know you can do proxies in person but that'd be no good for playing against #esoteric people < 1443129276 669935 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work < 1443129293 187733 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even if you allow some proxies, physical non-proxy cards are nice. < 1443129301 64122 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually like the art and flavor text and such things of cards. < 1443129312 561011 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my view the picture wastes half the card space. < 1443129313 910819 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not of all cards, sure. There are really bad ones.) < 1443129314 88852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, that's the reason I used to buy them (that the physical cards are nice) < 1443129322 178813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not any more, Lorwyn pretty much put me off Magic for good < 1443129330 803287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's used by most top players to recognise the card across the table < 1443129335 779661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :way easier than trying to read the name < 1443129345 657529 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why, isn't half of #esoteric in finland and the other half in the UK? :-) < 1443129347 819107 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's true, the picture is useful as an identifier. < 1443129364 698669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but the UK is quite big < 1443129396 224449 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. black card with old frame and ugly pink background picture with creatures with a misshapen head, you don't have to read the text to know it's a stupid bad card. < 1443129440 781011 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's Phyrexian Broodlings) < 1443129496 332799 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we played M:tG over IRC, I'd probably use physical cards to represent much of the state locally < 1443129499 234947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what's your opinion on Stasis? especially the art < 1443129531 255769 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could try to organize such a thing, but I haven't got a good deck built currently < 1443129556 216886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno, that one has very strange art. you only find that kind of thing only on old cards. < 1443129588 38526 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1443129609 376186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that terrible card that converted mana for {3}? < 1443129618 882433 :spiette!~spiette@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1443129642 823411 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: once? repeatably? < 1443129655 10842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an artifact that could convert mana, or something like that. < 1443129674 379785 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: artifact? not land or creature? < 1443129725 239013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be wrong about the cost. < 1443129734 490103 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some creatures that convert mana (without needing to tap), but not ones that need that much mana for it. < 1443129754 702369 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that snake shaman guy is the most famous, because it converts any amount of mana for free < 1443129763 608997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celestial Prism < 1443129764 181729 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orochi Leafcaller < 1443129787 415981 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there are some elves < 1443129810 303107 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, that even requires tapping. that seems very useless. < 1443129877 620926 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This card is not very good. < 1443129889 664321 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I mean, for 3 you get a Darksteel Ignot or lots of similar things < 1443129901 164077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in alpha, I guess? < 1443129901 735042 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember those neural net generated magic cards < 1443129913 271628 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favourite was "You may spend (1)" < 1443129968 394965 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's Skyshroud Elf which converts _colorless_ mana to white or red for free < 1443129995 774668 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is there that converts any amount of mana to any color for free, or to a color chosen when it enters the battlefield? < 1443130093 779076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :celestial dawn kind-of counts < 1443130112 795389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a card in return to ravnica that makes all lands produce any color of mana < 1443130117 139244 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is there something that converts any amount of mana to _green_ mana for free? < 1443130202 518162 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the sense of Chromatic Lantern, or replacing the mana they produce, or adding a trigger for additional mana like Fertile Ground? < 1443130225 643173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it replaces the mana they produce, IIRC < 1443130239 598129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably is literally chromatic lantern, actually < 1443130247 808020 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not in ravnica < 1443130251 757114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps with misremembered details < 1443130252 995070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in RtR. < 1443130261 987387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1443130274 487397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is in return to ravnica, which is where I said it was, just checked < 1443130278 30750 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait, I think I remember something < 1443130278 499293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doens't help you with non-land mana, or mana from before you had it. < 1443130284 893170 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed, that's what you said < 1443130343 472925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, prismatic omen is another card along similar lines < 1443130348 407079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives all your lands all basic land types < 1443130359 939445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to whatever they normally do < 1443130364 675004 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of that is about producing karma, though. < 1443130382 483336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like urborg, but multicolored, doesn't help your opponent, and doesn't produce mana itself < 1443130387 511609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to decide when you tap your land. < 1443130411 71062 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found Bog Initiate which converts to black < 1443130441 644881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't find anything that converts to green. < 1443130460 256384 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1443130465 339516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor blu. < 1443130466 495403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1443130516 85520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443130617 335413 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, Orochi Leafcaller is sometimes good enough, because many decks that create lots of mana can create green < 1443130620 676685 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1443130637 715747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1443130677 327328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it isn't good enough for "convert to green". < 1443130693 801254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hierjan < 1443130894 891907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443130975 904267 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443131035 555468 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can convert blue to any color using either Horseshoe Crab or Pemmin's Aura or Freed from the Real plus one other card of which there are many choices < 1443131062 243795 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure how to convert from colorless mana < 1443131062 530639 :adu!~ajr@static-108-48-76-162.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443131063 641312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but we were talking about converting *to* a particular color. < 1443131104 267726 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even see anything that converts {2} or {3} to {G}, infinitely repeatably < 1443131116 186101 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe very complicated combos < 1443131130 156008 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, so complicated that it's easier to just get an infinite mana combo < 1443131141 820330 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that generates infinite green mana < 1443131227 117935 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there something that lets you convert (colorless or white or red) mana to green in a way that's infinitely repeatable without requiring other resources, possibly consuming more than one mana? < 1443131251 333083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there's a combo that does that in my favourite deck but it's really complicated < 1443131273 890506 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly, with a complicated combo, I can just generate infinite mana < 1443131320 254191 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't worry about how hard it is to set it up in a real game, it's easy to get a three-card infinite combo that generates any color < 1443131326 513564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my combo can generate infinite black, and can also convert 2B into BBC for any color C < 1443131340 989307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is enough for infinite of any color < 1443131346 544729 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part is to make a deck that sets this up without the opponent disrupting the setup and winning < 1443131346 722889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are two separate steps < 1443131353 643865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that happen to use the same cards, but in a different way) < 1443131365 368034 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think you mentioned that combo < 1443131365 816170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, my deck is easy to disrupt, but can rebuild from basically nothing very quickly < 1443131369 934066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had times when someone's wrathed me < 1443131374 743850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next turn I play out 10 creatures and combo out < 1443131375 895013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1443131379 101155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, does it invent nitia? < 1443131382 268840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nitia < 1443131383 641249 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. < 1443131393 261737 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I'm optimistic, I think I can build an infinite mana deck that will work < 1443131419 107336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, it invents the inventor of nitia < 1443131440 917978 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" being the BBC it creates. < 1443131455 9865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's only one. < 1443131455 429424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1443131459 215268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know in that case < 1443131467 210679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's /possible/, perhaps, on a sufficiently metaphysical level < 1443131474 76491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/ais523 < 1443131474 993658 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's combo invents the inventor of nitia. Taneb invented it. < 1443131476 167544 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e ais523 oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull elliott Sgeo Bike oerjan Taneb ais523 ais523 elliott oerjan elliott FreeFull oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia < 1443131494 212025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently nitia invented ais523 < 1443131496 224563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of culprits for such a pointless entry < 1443131499 555628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is getting pretty complicated < 1443131548 398953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/taneb < 1443131550 318703 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan Taneb oerjan oerjan elliott shachaf boily oerjan ais523 ais523 shachaf elliott FreeFull shachaf shachaf oerjan oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull Taneb shachaf shachaf nitia < 1443131557 110207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly, nitia is the inventor of all things < 1443131559 902938 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems there are a couple of creature or artifact cards that have built-in abilities to untap for lots of mana. Those can be used with Utopia Vow or that better aura from Theros block to convert lots of colorless mana to any color < 1443131584 736359 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voltaic Construct is the easiest < 1443131599 944481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voltaic Construct plus Scuttlemutt converts {2} to any color < 1443131717 340532 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voltaic Construct plus (Heartstone or Power Artifact or Training Grounds) plus Scuttlemutt lets you convert {1} to any color < 1443131779 909813 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so my solution is Voltaic Construct, Heartstone, Scuttlemutt < 1443131814 286387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is that good enough? < 1443131820 40236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what? < 1443131824 859943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I posed a problem. < 1443131830 627783 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1443131833 374094 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started the whole thing < 1443131929 143012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mana abilities are so complicated. < 1443131937 412864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish this whole game was scrapped and replaced with something simpler. < 1443131976 704823 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make up a new game then < 1443132033 455256 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some stuff in Magic: the Gathering I don't like, for example I would remove the rules about Auras that are also creatures being discarded and stuff like that, as well as fixing the rules for card types and for some other things to make them more mathematically elegant; I think some rule not so mathematically elegant < 1443132144 845641 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, I was wondering what was the most complicated that could happen immediately when activating a mana ability. I know you can sacrifice a creature, but I can't seem to make that cause anything disastrous immediately using static effects. < 1443132169 812724 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Voltaic Construct is interesting. I wonder if I could use it somehow. < 1443132172 476489 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly like Magic: the Gathering though, including how mana abilities work and so on < 1443132181 512299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the puzzles especially < 1443132282 467392 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would also want to make up a new kind of entirely different card game, that can be invent a programming language to invent the game and then write the rules as literate computer program. Makes it more clearly. I would also do it much more mathematically elegant. (My plan was to make the game "Aberration Hater Card Game", with several game modes, such as Solomon vs Rochester vs Sealed, symmetric vs asymmetric, two-players vs three-players vs Bri < 1443132313 773179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Your message was cut off. < 1443132344 985874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of a game with computer-interprable rules which is mathematically elegant. < 1443132375 844344 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've wondered what sort of programming language you'd need to be able to express something similar to Magic: The Gathering cards concisely. < 1443132413 873316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if you were designing the system from scratch to work that way you could get away with not having some of the complications that Magic: The Gathering has. < 1443132416 562132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: better: write an interpreter that takes Oracle text as its input langauge < 1443132439 224643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's better. < 1443132468 522394 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle English is better than regular English, but it's still very complicated and irregular. < 1443132476 742692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so are the rules themselves. < 1443132480 990643 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually my idea was to have both; have a natural language parser which allows formatting codes and various other codes, it can then be printed or converted to computer codes, and can include inline computer-codes which are not printed (in order to deal with irregulatities and so on). < 1443132492 633181 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443132497 619870 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules themself though would be written using literate computer-code instead. < 1443132508 897857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a simple language which, if you want, you can translate to English card text. Though I don't know if that's even a good idea. < 1443132529 853358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like MtG keywords should be like library calls, with the core rule set being relatively small. < 1443132540 624436 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my idea though? It is pretty much different. < 1443132561 952190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is how to make a language/environment which can modify itself to the degree that MtG cards can. < 1443132572 904425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I did think of several ideas about it < 1443132591 616389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And is also nearly as concise as English.) < 1443132634 986984 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you type () or [] then it is comments in the card text, but the formatting is different; () print with () included in printout and italics while [] is printed without the [] but text inside is printed, and then perhaps (- -) or {- -} or whatever might include inline computer-codes which are not included in the printout. < 1443132642 760589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: your messages keep getting cut off. i think your irc client needs better message length handling. perhaps splitting but at least a warning. < 1443132679 394088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1443132758 125245 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443132829 129158 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here interested in serialization? I'd reallllly like some conversation and feedback on a spec for binary data transfer that follows closely with json < 1443132840 844743 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is RDF then consider something like: [:counter [!_:a :target :spell]; :replacing [:when [:moving [:what _:a; :from :stack; :to :graveyard]]; :replace-with [:moving [:to :library]]]] < 1443132859 853004 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the spec up here, am working on it, but sure could use some foresight from those who may have some: https://github.com/rafajafar/binjas/blob/master/specification.txt < 1443133146 855704 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443133158 590081 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-004.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1443133159 293099 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-150-186.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443133165 433145 :Tod-Autojoined!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443133226 881050 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-150-186.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1443133229 286080 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-004.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de NICK :Melvar < 1443133258 601376 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-145-004.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1443133404 630567 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443133415 498929 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1443133689 565887 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443134045 738995 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gVd EvniG!!! < 1443134071 758003 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bons\oiren\! < 1443134076 144026 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boelloyly! < 1443134086 537867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boilyo < 1443134097 28125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoren < 1443134140 559535 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonshachafoir < 1443134151 533126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo dawg < 1443134156 610187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://slbkbs.org/yawg-prime.png < 1443134173 705109 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafajafar: have you heard of BSON? < 1443134192 212255 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1443134220 2008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSON is a scow encoding, if I remember correctly. < 1443134221 814718 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsoirafajafar. < 1443134229 828130 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of issues with it, primary of which is how frequently it actually makes things larger < 1443134240 140493 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more importantly, it has data types that aren't necessary < 1443134244 368572 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as, oh, dates < 1443134247 895407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoily < 1443134256 114784 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this is a prime? < 1443134263 563288 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsœirjan. < 1443134273 920617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonjoerjan < 1443134281 541463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two 'j's are pronounced the same way hth < 1443134328 855116 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night < 1443134330 932349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by philistines and infidels, maybe < 1443134334 921411 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonne tanuitb! < 1443134348 387425 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Norwegian j or Fren j? < 1443134352 866640 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/n\b/nch/ < 1443134369 80165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norwegianch or Fren? that's up to you < 1443134371 133951 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghargh. can't even regexp tonight. < 1443134382 484077 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go with Norwegianch. I am cursed. < 1443134409 926677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norwejan < 1443134419 792257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall now endeavor to pronounce the two h's in shachaf's name equally < 1443134452 876129 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are already < 1443134472 880091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1443134478 315200 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric : both palatalize the preceding shound < 1443134479 91358 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: like it's very interesting that bson has a date data type when json itself doesn't < 1443134494 853504 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Javascript does < 1443134499 13608 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but json doesnt < 1443134499 191813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: i believe you are wrong hth < 1443134514 716210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, i was supposed to annoy shachaf not defend him < 1443134520 163376 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not a data type in javascript < 1443134527 278357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to annoy me? < 1443134531 205091 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a class that most implementations have built in < 1443134544 64319 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c is pronounced as a /t/ in 'ch' < 1443134563 863830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1443134568 368692 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, a 'ts' < 1443134573 430527 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ts/ < 1443134577 971447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know what you're trying to say now < 1443134580 461600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1443134588 818426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ch is a voiceless uvular fricative hth < 1443134597 27133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sweet sweet vengeance hth < 1443134631 303595 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :palatalized ts is tʃ < 1443134646 771835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :looj < 1443134662 275864 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ʃatʃaf/ < 1443134665 963480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itt \oren\ confuses english and hebrew < 1443134684 707170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps just tries to annoy shachaf < 1443134689 747507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forvo.com/word/%D7%A9%D7%97%D7%A3/ < 1443134734 831425 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mentally say ʃɑχɑf or whatever < 1443134753 695002 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( /χχχχχχχχχχχχχχχχ/ ) < 1443134755 585110 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your spelling it worng hth. < 1443134761 484877 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shahaf < 1443134762 584625 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice i'm close, i just mentally englishify the vowels! < 1443134774 849915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're pronouncing it wrong hth < 1443134788 213915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is truly an evil overlord < 1443134788 515881 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i have pronounced words for forvo < 1443134799 562161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :planting confusion behind the scenes < 1443134806 270593 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my good deed to the earth hth" < 1443134809 895496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the right verb but i'm too confused to think of the right one < 1443134812 520606 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well that girl on that website is saying /ʃahaf/ < 1443134829 943836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, she's using a fricative < 1443134840 138033 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an h is a fricative! < 1443134843 778667 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that is not /h/ < 1443134872 840298 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's another one http://forvo.com/word/shachaf/ < 1443134875 596623 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it's shaghaf < 1443134876 777143 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can hear her uvula go chhhh! it is right there < 1443134880 814317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :looj it's uvular ok < 1443134886 768193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :==mauris_ < 1443134899 810383 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or or maybe shakhaf < 1443134904 405698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is the stress on the first or the last syllable, that link sounded perfectly ambiguous < 1443134914 450538 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -FIin uvular wisdom/* < 1443134916 213778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first one) < 1443134917 593232 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory < 1443134919 486787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a norwegian would think that's ambiguous hth < 1443134920 665823 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :shakhaf would work (this is what some people do for /x/ in russian) < 1443134931 359832 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote uvular < 1443134932 104045 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1094) nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means < 1443134934 385393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris_: the russian sound is velar not uvular hth < 1443134945 625608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the second was clearly on the first < 1443134957 852068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the emphasis in oerjan is on both syllables, right? < 1443134959 826517 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normal engish speakers pronounce 'ch' as 'tʃ' ok < 1443134961 173072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something bizarre like that < 1443134966 45969 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i've been stressing your name wrongly all this time tdnh < 1443134971 107731 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but to the western world it falls nicely under "weird foreign throaty sounds we'll just spell kh" < 1443134986 77657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: i eschew that pronunciation hth < 1443134998 171231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sound isn't even throaty < 1443135017 560619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the french r throaty? < 1443135031 497688 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it depends. mostly yes. < 1443135056 558827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i find it a bit hard to decide. supposedly stress should be on the first syllable but it's not as distinct in words with the second pitch accent < 1443135058 932372 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usually the ch in your name but voiced! < 1443135088 435054 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris_: mostly. there is some variation between the trill and fricative. < 1443135128 195115 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've heard approximants in canadaian french, or am i just loopy? < 1443135160 459235 :rafajafar!~rafajafar@pool-71-163-48-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1443135170 253170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's not the right verb but i'm too confused to think of the right one <-- sow hth < 1443135179 787290 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the kebecwas pronounce it like english r < 1443135189 406404 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1443135198 254940 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rkitacvmqthjakeq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1443135242 548308 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: that is highly dubious. < 1443135288 416316 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm ok apparently that's only people from ottawa < 1443135300 520200 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i've definitely heard from french canadians is like... < 1443135325 4505 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll say words like "hamburger" with approximants to stick close to english < 1443135345 797183 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas here in europe people go hambuʁʁʁʁʁgeʁʁʁʁʁ and it's funny < 1443135364 226047 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah all kebecwas do taht, defiantly < 1443135386 357772 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: sorry, you aren't even wrong. < 1443135392 115722 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443135473 190987 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: you don't like my englishification of quebecois? < 1443135493 442616 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kebecwas < 1443135506 407603 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hamburger sounds kind of like /æmbə̥'gœɹ/. < 1443135593 358625 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1443135602 194528 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ma vengeance sera terrible! < 1443135623 878656 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: avez-vous un microphone? there's so few samples of canadian french on the internet :< < 1443135650 222039 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris_: j'ai un micro, et tu peux me tutoyer. any sentence you'd like to hear? < 1443135688 339510 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443135710 395180 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "hamburger" was on my mind, but you can optionally jam it into a sentence! < 1443135723 154639 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, let's try... < 1443135813 527196 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6oeAdemFZw < 1443135816 299618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :õmbyʁgɛʁ < 1443135827 958179 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, neat! i thought people speaking languages with T-V distinction usually vouvoyer'd each other on the internet < 1443135877 165761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you say throaty, i think of e.g. pharyngeal sounds < 1443135881 707659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: not available tdnh < 1443135895 954838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok i can imagine peter sellers in my mind < 1443135913 745538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ʕ or ħ < 1443135913 948078 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't peter sellers < 1443135927 208669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it not be peter sellers < 1443135936 956896 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a remake hth < 1443135950 631483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1443135961 346179 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hmph < 1443135962 281755 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :His Master's Phonetic Hmph < 1443135966 626978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i shall imagine peter sellers anyhow hth < 1443135980 58688 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xe7pj3e4psp5p90/hamburger.ogg?dl=0 < 1443135987 152000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/hmph < 1443135988 749423 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1443136001 887919 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone say a programming language to express Magic: the Gathering cards in? < 1443136005 184691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i can just click in the sidebar < 1443136013 838285 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Python? < 1443136016 165811 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you made me laugh with your omburguère. < 1443136047 741788 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is steve martin < 1443136049 263069 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :effect = add_blocking_restriction(lambda victim: not victim.flying) < 1443136078 945947 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. confused mroman and mauris. < 1443136082 325433 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: this is adorable <3 < 1443136100 554459 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :also canadian french is freaky < 1443136103 822688 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, with Python you can't define a method using = like that. < 1443136124 519775 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only understand like 25% of this, the ts and dz throws me off < 1443136128 200953 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris_: it was quite standard French. I was light with the regionalisms. < 1443136131 117004 :Guest-Pirc!~Guest-Pir@host123.181-10-32.telecom.net.ar JOIN :#esoteric < 1443136147 1679 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mind, i can only understand like 50% of france french to begin with) < 1443136187 461089 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :def effect(self): deal_damage(self.targets.player, 4); for c in self.targets.player.creatures { deal_damage(c, 4) } < 1443136218 417520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that'll do, mustn't overdose < 1443136301 875336 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :def effect(self): card = self.targets.creature.controller.reveal_random_from_hand(); cmc = card.converted_mana_cost; self.deal_damage(self.targets.creature, cmc); self.deal_damage(self.targets.creature.controller, cmc) < 1443136306 104266 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443136324 332969 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: pff what if add_blocking_restriction returns a lambda that takes a `self` parameter that (etc.) < 1443136327 565470 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounded like a normal english r in ambergar < 1443136365 196156 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris_: then I'll punch whoever wrote the framework in the face. < 1443136404 233716 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: until they give you a good api? sounds reasonable < 1443136409 103448 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1443136465 556112 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :def attack_trigger(self): victim = self.controller.select_target(creature); if victim is not None: victim.add_blocking_restriction(lambda: false, until_end_of_turn) < 1443136481 34422 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, this would actually be an interesting challenge. < 1443136495 486993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amberg: a small german village whose inhabitants are furious that a misspelling caused Hamburg to steal the credit for their gastronomical masterpiece < 1443136533 485798 :Guest-Pirc!~Guest-Pir@host123.181-10-32.telecom.net.ar QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443136558 214983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*German < 1443136574 568650 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amberg is named after a person who once found a piece of ambergris lying on the beach, but then had their legs eaten by a bear and they died, so in that person's memory the townsfolk chopped off the last three letters of the word "ambergris". < 1443136595 260652 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's the other way around. < 1443136610 334640 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they chopped the legs off a whale? < 1443136620 614960 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ambergris is named after its discoverer, a person whose name was Chris, and who was from Amberg, and thus was called Amberg Chris. < 1443136637 773123 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amberg is halfway between regensberg and bayreuth, which I assume is the german version of beirut < 1443136648 7101 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monoid < 1443136648 868974 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoids are just categories with a single object. < 1443136649 543154 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monoids < 1443136650 666558 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoids are the easy version of categories. < 1443136664 831868 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The monoid/monoids situation must be rectified. < 1443136695 574556 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443136704 839387 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? category < 1443136705 798007 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Categories are just a special case of bicategories. < 1443136712 601073 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: no no no no no! It's just a German conflagration of a strong verb and a mountain. male boasting, if you want. Am berg. Are berg. Is berg. You small-hill. < 1443136712 822666 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bicategory < 1443136713 712074 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicategories are just categories where composition is only associative up to an isomorphism. < 1443136729 593049 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ah, got it. < 1443136733 89866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Monoids are just the easy version of categories with a single object. < 1443136735 715826 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'monoid': Monoids are just the easy version of categories with a single object. < 1443136739 155707 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443136739 334588 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amberg is next to a town called bamberg < 1443136745 338087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/monoids < 1443136747 336189 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1443136751 46121 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isinmtu < 1443136752 225338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: that what you meant? < 1443136759 735853 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're aware, of course, that the combined wisdom doesn't really make sense. < 1443136767 320462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1443136775 577142 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn category/A category is just a category object in the category of classes. < 1443136777 839280 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «category» < 1443136810 475420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: actually i think it makes perfect sense. < 1443136828 718381 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamberg_potato < 1443136871 691812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: shouldn't that be Eisberg hth < 1443136914 279831 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Franconia_details.png as you can see, Amberg, Bamberg and Nuremberg are close to each other < 1443136930 451802 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443136970 477492 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coberg is also nearby < 1443137100 449028 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443137125 45287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not Zoidberg < 1443137162 481308 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're thinking of a salad hth < 1443137268 681013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, salad < 1443137297 317993 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently when Magic R&D is playtesting, they use cards that look like this: http://media.wizards.com/legacy/global/images/mtgcom_daily_af40_picmain_en.jpg < 1443137312 576112 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire contents of that card, for our viewers at home: < 1443137317 487783 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hat 3" < 1443137346 518694 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hat < 1443137347 535604 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo < 1443137441 148442 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hat < 1443137442 32014 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo < 1443137453 10342 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i. ok < 1443137468 339875 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn kayayaya/Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. < 1443137470 772537 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «kayayaya» < 1443137476 140654 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case anyone was wondering. < 1443137544 581381 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, "loudly" has got to be the best thing I've done for this channel. < 1443137554 55551 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why you aren't all heaping praise upon me. < 1443137574 246516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: itym HAT³ hth < 1443137630 960918 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :os < 1443137646 571259 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm sure we're all afraid of suffocating you. < 1443137653 372232 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: imperial or metric heap? < 1443137653 566038 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, that must be it. < 1443137955 412489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is os < 1443138020 218198 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? os < 1443138021 798020 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Os is the accusative plural of us. Also a municipality in Norway. < 1443138193 679554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help < 1443138543 571527 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a wisard? < 1443138760 223598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just a wisard < 1443138811 416419 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, what's the difference? < 1443138968 719096 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mental spell correction working a little too well, perhaps?)