00:00:06 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:00:14 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 00:01:35 http://store.steampowered.com/app/370360/?snr=1_7_15__13 00:20:19 I know a REBOLer who loves SpaceChem as educational 00:20:31 I don't think I got far in it 00:29:04 I remember I once asked someone to make up a Magic: the Gathering card; he made up an artifact called "Smoking Wand" with the text: {2}, {T}: Touch this wand to your opponent's nose and his nose catches fire. (If today is Tuesday, his nose explodes instead.) 00:30:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:32:17 He also made up a green enchantment called "Balanced Acorn" with the text: Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 (due to being able to well balance acorns on their head). 00:42:47 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:50:30 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:52:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: A corny ability). 00:53:20 @tell oerjan Please remind me to mapole you when you are back. 00:53:20 Consider it noted. 00:54:41 what is mapoling 00:55:05 `? mapole 00:55:06 A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg. 00:55:29 `? thwackamacallit 00:55:30 A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole. 00:55:39 izabera: that should clarify the matter. 00:56:07 is this how canadians explain things? 00:56:10 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:57:32 it's essentially a maple pole. a mapole, eh. 00:58:46 the interwebz says it's a magnetic dipole 00:59:23 ah? 01:00:14 http://www.acronymfinder.com/Magnetic-Dipole-Spark-Transmitter-(MAPOLE).html 01:01:02 neat! 01:10:59 -!- boily has quit (Quit: RETURN CHICKEN). 01:13:33 What about a language where the stack is handled, then executed at the end of the script (stack definition), and the interpreter loops through the stack until its members have been removed? 01:14:20 -!- heroux has joined. 01:16:01 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44621&oldid=44617 * SuperJedi224 * (+37) 01:26:01 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 01:34:20 JesseH: How do you loop through a stack? 01:34:47 -!- heddwch has changed nick to yeddwcy. 01:34:47 It's pretty much an array 01:34:58 Or well, list 01:35:11 How about a mandatorily reversible language? Called "Bounce", where the instructions are executed forward, then backward, theen forward, then backward (up and down from the programmers point of view, as if bouncing) 01:35:30 That could be fun too. 01:36:09 sounds easy to maintain 01:39:58 -!- yeddwcy has changed nick to heddwch. 01:51:53 JesseH: That sounds vaguely familiar; or at least the concept of "turn the data manipulated by the program into what gets executed next, and that's the only looping construct". Maybe not with a stack-oriented language, though. 01:52:53 So λ-nomic, Anyone? 01:53:46 Fueue is a bit like that. The source code defines the initial values of a queue, and execution means looking at the head of the queue and doing stuff (potentially involving appending elements to the tail) until there is no queue anymore. 01:55:42 What ways are there of thinking of programming languages? 01:56:52 There's: As a map from strings to a map from input string to an output string; As an algorithm; As a TM; As a λ-expression; what else? 01:57:27 Cellular automata is p. popular. 01:57:31 Ah yes 01:57:43 I'm thinking about the Philosophy of Computer Science 01:57:45 In general, "model of computation" is the term you want. 01:58:00 And ways of thinking of languages is a core of it, AFAICT 02:09:19 [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44622&oldid=44593 * Zzo38 * (+1552) TeX 02:26:23 Writing up a README for what I'm calling Stoop. 02:26:33 Tends to be where I start most of my projects these days. :P 03:31:04 -!- variable has joined. 03:39:56 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:40:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:50:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:51:04 zzo38: Have you considered PostScript for that list yet? 03:54:04 If Microsoft is unveiling its first laptop, what was the Surface before then? 03:54:58 Sgeo: A tabtob? 03:55:34 Also 1500 for something that probably has less graphics power than what I have now seems a bit... excessive... 03:56:05 Oh, SurfaceBooks are like MacBooks! 03:56:09 Sgeo: 1500 what? 03:56:09 >.> 03:56:36 USD? CAD? EUR? PSO? 03:56:45 (I assume PSO is peso, but I'm probably wrong) 03:57:22 Probably USD. 03:57:40 hppavilion[1]: Which peso? 03:57:53 pikhq: The one that's worthless 03:58:15 None of them are PSO, and all of 'em are fairly low in value. 03:59:26 hppavilion[1]: Do you know PostScript much? 03:59:43 zzo38: I've read about it and tried to learn it, but no 03:59:48 It's pretty strange, IMHO 03:59:52 The CUP is quite literally worthless in that there's no real way to get any from USD. 04:00:03 What's CUP? 04:00:10 Cuban peso. 04:00:43 Ah 04:00:45 Oh xD 04:00:51 It's not a convertible currency. 04:00:55 <\oren\> bah. another flimsy overpriiced craptop 04:02:16 Ah, though it will gain value, as they're getting rid of the CUP. 04:02:29 (that's the ones you can actually buy) 04:05:50 <\oren\> For 1000$ I want something that will last a decade or so 04:06:57 -!- mauris has joined. 04:10:01 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 04:11:49 <\oren\> If a computer costs 2000$ it ought to keep working ok for 20 years 04:11:56 <\oren\> And so on 04:27:12 What happen in a Magic: the Gathering game if a spell goes missing from the stack during the process of casting that spell? 04:30:03 It's countered. 04:30:16 Believe me, I checked. 04:30:55 A flashed Sharhazad in a deck with wishes can be used as a terrible self counterspell. 04:31:49 Hrm, wait. Define "process of casting". Do you mean the game action 'casting' whereby it gets put on the stack, some point where it's on the stack, or during resolution? 04:33:37 I mean the steps from 601.2a to 601.2i in the rules. 04:34:07 So after it is put on the stack but before caster gets priority. 04:41:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:57:16 -!- heddwch has changed nick to yangzhia. 05:02:18 -!- yangzhia has changed nick to heddwch. 05:08:09 -!- JesseH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:09:18 Do you know it? 05:10:33 -!- bb010g has joined. 05:18:06 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:29:48 -!- ^v has joined. 05:37:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:47:18 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:48:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:49:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:06:23 My guess is that it would continue as if nothing happened, although the spell is no longer there and therefore cannot resolve. But, I don't know! 06:12:45 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:16:12 -!- scoofy has joined. 06:36:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:45:51 zzo38: I was wondering if you could make something like that happen with Panglacial Wurm, and in particular, whether you could run an “end the turn” action during casting a spell 06:46:45 I couldn't figure out a solution. Some strange things can happen with Panglacial Wurm because you can sacrifice creatures for mana abilities to pay for Panglacial, but I can't make anything wierd happen immediately (as opposed to later when sbe are checked or you get priority). 06:46:50 I still wonder if there's a way. 06:47:05 zzo38: how is Shahrazad relevant here though? 06:53:02 There are lots of different mana abilities that let you sac creatures, so maybe I could sac some permanent that has an interesting static effect. 06:53:22 But most static effects cause strange things only later, through sbe. 06:59:47 i want to write a virtual machine for games 07:00:08 but it will only support games such as super mario, or sonic, and such games 07:00:23 and it will work on linux, windows, mac osx, everywhere 07:00:34 it will be a multiplatform platform game platform 07:04:10 Wait wait! What if I had an animated Humility, my opponent had an Angelic Arbiter. I attack with a bear, cast Diabolic Tutor, as I search, cast Panglacial Wurm from my library, pay for it with Ashnod's Altar, saccing the Humility, so the static ability of Angelic Arbiter says I can't cast spells. 07:04:16 zzo38: ^ 07:05:40 I am not talking about Shahrazad. 07:06:38 b_jonas: You activate mana abilities and pay costs after it is checked whether or not the spell is legal. 07:06:52 zzo38: ok 07:08:45 Could you do some other crazy stuff by turning on a static ability of a permanent in a similar manner? 07:08:53 During casting a spell 07:09:53 Especially if you use something more complicated than Diabolic Tutor, and something that spell tries to do after searching the library would interact with the static ability. 07:10:14 Probably you can, yes, due to mana abilities or costs; you might even be able to avoid state-based effects in this way. 07:11:41 See if a puzzle can be made up involving such things! 07:13:39 If a card has an ability: {4}, {T}: Add {1} to your mana pool. All spells with split-second ability are countered. then you could counter a spell with split-second before its cost is paid. Of course that is just made up and is not an official card (for now, at least). 07:14:31 If an ability says "Add {0} to your mana pool", is it still a mana ability? 07:15:48 As far as I can tell due the rules, it is not; although the rules ought to be that it is because it is "add to your mana pool" 07:17:18 What if it says "Add {X} to your mana pool, where X is 1 if there are more than two players in the game and 0 otherwise", and there are only two players in the game? 07:17:56 Or something like that. 07:24:08 As far as I know it is still a mana ability but I am not sure. I have thought of stuff like that, although it was a card in the Conspiracy set, I think 07:25:36 Is there such a thing as a Fellwar Myr, or a similar green druid, or a Fellwar Cantor, or a Fellwar Ritual/Song instant? 07:26:56 oh, there is a druid: Quirion Explorer 07:27:09 but that's a bit expensive. I think a myr version that costs {2} could work. 07:27:50 and Sylvok Explorer too … hmm 07:30:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:30:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:42:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:14:15 -!- mauris_ has joined. 08:16:45 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:51:32 -!- VictorCL has joined. 09:00:28 -!- heddwch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:28 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:01:18 -!- heddwch has joined. 09:05:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:07:52 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:17:28 Good morning 09:17:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Flawr * New user account 09:30:25 -!- VictorCL has joined. 09:32:02 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:32:58 -!- VictorCL has joined. 09:34:52 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:35:53 -!- VictorCL has joined. 09:38:01 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:38:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:40:57 -!- VictorCL has joined. 09:58:25 -!- mroman has joined. 09:58:44 DEP + Stack Cannaries sucks 09:58:44 :( 09:59:36 Ideally all systems would use DEP, Stack Cannaries, ASLR 09:59:43 and that's going to make it really hard to write exploits. 10:01:01 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:02:52 no, people will still always write a lot of bad code that does all kinds of things on untrusted input, as they're financially incentived to write bad code quickly. 10:03:25 I mean, people still write lots of insecure code in high-level languages that do bounds check, and it's not buffer overflows and mistakes like that. 10:04:27 Yeah, you can still corrupt data of course. 10:05:29 and there's JIT spraying 10:08:47 Or run commands from untrusted input, or just make a mistake in authorization properly so anyone can access a lot of data they shouldn't through a service, or lots of other possibilities. 10:13:02 I mean, seriously, python is (probably) adding a form of string literal with interpolation (sort of like double-quoted strings in ruby), and the most important reservation they had about this is that PEOPLE WILL USE IT TO INTERPOLATE UNTRUSTED STRINGS INTO SQL STATEMENTS so some thing the feature should be added only when there's another similar interpolation syntax that doesn't concatenate everything to a string but produces and abstract list of pieces 10:13:14 \ so some thing the feature should be added only when there's another similar interpolation syntax that doesn't concatenate everything to a string but produces and abstract list of pieces so that the sql prepare function can put placeholders where the interpolated parts are automatically. 10:13:41 I mean, come on! Hasn't programmers stopped doing that like two decades ago? 10:14:37 I can sort of understand it when you're messing with cmd on windows, spawning programs that you didn't write, because there getting command-line quoting to work properly is impossible. But in sql statements? 10:15:18 Incidentally, is there a perl module that overloads string literals for this kind of magic for sql statements? 10:15:23 Just wondering. 10:23:06 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:23:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:23:31 -!- VictorCL has joined. 10:25:15 @messages- 10:25:15 boily said 9h 31m 54s ago: Please remind me to mapole you when you are back. 10:28:10 "interpolation"? 10:29:13 b_jonas: schools still teach the usual $id = GET['id']; $query = "SELECT * FROM WHERE id = $id"; 10:29:28 I was taught it this way 10:29:33 and they still teach it this way 10:31:03 Mostly because IT teachers are usually self-taught people who learned electrical engineering but eventually became computer guys 10:31:24 *learnt 10:33:39 -!- boily has joined. 10:34:35 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 10:34:50 mapohily 10:43:14 -!- JesseH has joined. 10:47:29 mroman: yes, like that. 10:47:39 It's horrible. 10:48:08 We try to say that only PHP people do it that way, but it's not true. It occurrs with SQL-related code in all kinds of languages. 10:49:04 -!- mauris has joined. 10:51:45 Well, let's be fair: in some languages they do it by string concatenation rather than variable interpolation. 10:53:46 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:57:53 -!- VictorCL has joined. 11:01:07 mapoerjanello! 11:01:18 * boily thwacks oerjan 11:01:32 AAAAAAAAA 11:02:14 AAAAAAAAA? 11:02:20 A. 11:05:46 A. 11:05:58 A? AAAA... 11:06:30 the haskell wiki has an annoying lack of several features. the search menu doesn't even complete... 11:14:35 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:18:02 -!- lleu has joined. 11:23:39 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:24:17 -!- VictorCL has joined. 11:25:50 shachaf: yo 11:26:54 stupid time zones. and sleeping. 11:27:09 -!- yorick has joined. 11:27:55 time zones are great, they just need to be liberated from geography 11:29:22 `? oren 11:29:23 oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. 11:30:24 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 11:30:33 timezones are great. let's make more of them! 11:30:43 int-e: what i wanted to tell shachaf is that i have distilled down my proof that ZipList isn't a monad to just two test cases. 11:31:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CERULEAN CHICKEN). 11:31:25 [[[],[7,8]] and [[[1,2],[3,4]],[[],[7,8]]] 11:31:59 join . join = join . fmap join _must_ break for one of them, given that we know what join must do on rectangular lists. 11:32:46 (which one depends on whether join [[],[7,8]] = [] or not.) 11:33:09 (eliding ZipList wrapping here.) 11:33:34 um s/ and/] and/ 11:36:12 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:38:27 -!- VictorCL has joined. 11:41:43 (i searched the ircbrowse logs for #haskell for "ZipList monad" a few years back yesterday to see if anyone there had given a full proof, which not only told me they hadn't but that shachaf was particularly annoyed at the question keeping coming up :P) 11:45:29 oerjan: I think I asked about that at some point 11:45:37 asked why it's not a monad, that is 11:45:42 or maybe about some other similar applicable 11:45:48 it should be in the logs 11:46:54 it does keep coming up 11:46:59 There might not be a precise proof. 11:47:07 there is _now_ 11:47:22 I mean, might not be a precise proof in the part of the logs I mentioned. 11:47:37 It comes up because we know few nice examples of applicables that aren't monads. 11:47:43 And ZipList is among them. 11:47:55 Const m is another btw 11:47:55 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:48:30 -!- scoofy has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:49:24 you cannot get join (pure (Const m)) = Const m to hold because pure (Const m) doesn't actually contain m in it :P 11:50:52 > pure (Const "hi") :: Const [String] a 11:50:53 Couldn't match expected type ‘a1’ 11:50:53 with actual type ‘Const [Char] b0’ 11:50:53 ‘a1’ is a rigid type variable bound by 11:50:58 hmph 11:51:16 > pure (Const "hi") :: Const [String] Bool 11:51:17 Couldn't match expected type ‘Bool’ 11:51:17 with actual type ‘Const [Char] b0’ 11:51:17 In the first argument of ‘pure’, namely ‘(Const "hi")’ 11:51:29 oh right 11:51:41 > pure (Const "hi") :: Const String (Const String a) 11:51:43 Const "" 11:59:38 -!- mauris has joined. 12:05:11 -!- mauris_ has joined. 12:06:24 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:06:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:10:16 -!- mauris has joined. 12:10:19 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:14:29 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:14:29 -!- mauris_ has joined. 12:18:02 -!- bender| has joined. 12:19:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:20:48 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:26:38 -!- bender| has changed nick to bender. 12:37:39 -!- augur has joined. 12:42:17 -!- VictorCL_ has joined. 12:42:26 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:57:56 -!- Demon_Fox has joined. 12:59:35 -!- Demon_Fox has left ("Leaving"). 13:15:23 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:33:41 -!- VictorCL has joined. 13:37:00 -!- VictorCL_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:42:30 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:45:10 -!- VictorCL has joined. 13:46:02 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:57:39 -!- VictorCL has joined. 14:04:17 -!- VictorCL has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:48:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 14:49:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:49:56 -!- heddwch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:50:03 -!- heddwch has joined. 14:51:37 -!- XorSwap has joined. 14:58:48 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 15:08:51 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 15:12:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:24:51 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:25:01 -!- nycs has joined. 15:26:31 [wiki] [[Whitespace]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44623&oldid=38185 * 206.248.181.119 * (+2443) site is currently offline. Technically copying stuff from the page, but technically API/syntax aren't copyright. 15:28:00 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:29:56 [wiki] [[Capricorn]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44624&oldid=44204 * 206.248.181.119 * (+21) 15:32:25 [wiki] [[Whitespace]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44625&oldid=44623 * Oerjan * (-2443) Undo revision 44623 by [[Special:Contributions/206.248.181.119|206.248.181.119]] ([[User talk:206.248.181.119|talk]]) (Technically I don't think you understand copyright.) 15:34:23 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Oerjan * Oerjan changed visibility of revisions on page [[Whitespace]]: Copyright violation: Even if the API doesn't make it Copyvio, the presentation may 15:36:18 [wiki] [[Whitespace]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44626&oldid=44625 * Oerjan * (+25) /* External resources */ Wayback for now 15:45:07 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:45:48 -!- nycs has joined. 15:49:28 -!- bender has quit (Quit: niht). 16:03:22 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:04:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:27:05 -!- VictorCL has joined. 16:34:20 -!- gamemanj has joined. 16:39:16 -!- mauris has joined. 17:00:26 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:04:48 oerjan: dolio liked your example, but not in #haskell. 17:20:24 SQL has host parameters so you can use that to enter values into SQL statements from another programming language. 17:35:56 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:41:22 -!- VictorCL has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…). 19:22:30 @tell boily decided to go caving on saturday. sunday still ostensibly free. 19:22:30 Consider it noted. 19:32:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:47:09 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:48:55 -!- pdxleif has joined. 19:56:31 hrmm.. has anyone ever made a mobius paper-tape quine? 19:56:56 define it 19:57:31 newsham: what would that mean? 20:00:46 a program on paper tape, where the paper tape is arranged as a mobius strip. 20:00:53 that when loaded will generate itself 20:01:30 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:22:12 newsham: MOBIUS TURING MACHINE 20:22:19 MOBIUS TURING MACHINE MOBIUS TURING MACHINE MOBIUS TURING MACHINE 20:23:31 "Picture a mobius strip of infinite length..." 20:23:57 "Then remember it's two-sided, so repicture the mobius strip as having half of infinite length" 20:23:58 newsham: but how do you load it? also, isn't ticker tape assymetric, so you can't load it upside down? 20:24:10 I mean, where do you start and stop feeding it? 20:24:39 b_jonas: Well, you would... um... Mayb- no, that wouldn't work. Hm... 20:24:43 tape readers are very fast, so you'd need a very long strip to have a chance to glue the two ends together 20:24:56 and even then, I don't think it will work upside down 20:25:37 hmm.. i dont know.. is it designed to only fit in one way? 20:25:42 in that case i guess its not possible :( 20:26:19 newsham: dunno, which type of paper tape? the 5 hole or the 7 hole one? 20:26:36 i didnt know there were two types :) 20:28:37 I'm not sure if there really is. I've only ever seen the 5 hole one. 20:28:58 But I think 7 hole one exists at least mythically, possibly in reality too. 20:29:31 https://googledrive.com/host/0B4J9OAzXNfZANENrRWdhR1FNZjQ that's quite the title 20:30:55 I think it's because 5 bit bytes with telex-like code were used for so long that few people made electromechanic terminals with 7 bit bytes and ascii-like code (though I know such a thing exists, or at least a 6 bit byte one does), so ticker tape got mostly obsolate by the time people would start to use 7 bit bytes. 20:31:17 [wiki] [[Brainfuck⁂]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44627&oldid=44615 * Hppavilion1 * (+418) Control Flow 20:32:09 Note though that ASCII was clearly _designed_ such that you can use it with ticker tape: that's why \x7f is the DEL character, so you can backspace and overpunch any character with DEL and then it will be ignored when the ticker is read. 20:35:25 this is what the 5-bit ticker tape (with baudot code) looks like: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Baudot_Tape.JPG 20:35:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:36:27 and this is an 8 hole ticker tape: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bootstrapping_tableau.jpg 20:36:42 this is 8 hole too: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cromemco_Dazzlemation_Program_on_Punched_Paper_Tape.jpg 20:36:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:38:04 this too: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Papertape.jpg 20:38:13 so it certainly at least exists 20:41:59 -!- mauris_ has joined. 20:42:10 https://googledrive.com/host/0B4J9OAzXNfZAbGd1Y3ByazNGYk0 <- more 5-bit tape 20:43:56 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:44:17 -!- Wright has joined. 20:44:22 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck⁂]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44628 * SuperJedi224 * (+50) Created page with "Plain, ordinary Brainf*** already has while loops." 20:45:43 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck⁂]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44629&oldid=44628 * Hppavilion1 * (+84) Repsonded 20:46:18 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck⁂]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44630&oldid=44629 * SuperJedi224 * (+97) 20:46:26 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:58:02 -!- mauris has joined. 21:00:27 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:04:31 -!- VictorCL has joined. 21:04:43 -!- nchambers has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:05:04 -!- nchambers has joined. 21:07:17 -!- VictorCL has quit (Client Quit). 21:07:43 -!- VictorCL has joined. 21:12:51 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:14:56 -!- mauris_ has joined. 21:16:26 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:19:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:21:40 oerjan: dolio liked your example, but not in #haskell. <-- wait what do you mean by "not in #haskell"? also ASK ME ABOUT MY 3 STEP PROOF THAT ZIPLIST IS DEFINITELY NOT A MONAD TWH 21:22:01 oerjan: in #haskell-lens 21:22:11 aha 21:22:37 i'm getting an urge to ask about a proof of some sort 21:22:42 funny 21:22:43 nah, it would probably just annoy people if i asked about it 21:22:49 yeah i guess 21:23:22 `? hugs 21:23:23 hugs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:23:38 `learn hugs are good 21:23:41 Learned 'hug': hugs are good 21:23:45 step 1 (common knowledge): to get the right Applicative, join needs to give the diagonal for all "rectangular" ZipLists. 21:24:37 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:24:39 step 2: use step 1 to ponder join . join = join . fmap join for the ziplist [[[],[7,8]]]. conclude that join [[],[7,8]] is []. 21:25:20 step 3: use step 1 and 2 to ponder it for [[[1,2],[3,4]],[[],[7,8]]]. get contradiction. 21:25:44 oerjan: imo post that somewhere where i can link to it twh 21:26:10 that's my problem, i cannot decide on a good place 21:26:18 e.g. ask on stackoverflow and then answer your own question 21:26:49 (apparently this is approved behavior) 21:27:26 i am consider that. 21:27:37 or put it on twitter 21:27:44 i don't have twitter 21:27:47 set up twitter 21:27:49 then follow me 21:27:52 then put it on twitter 21:28:09 it's in perfect <140-character-sized chunks 21:28:51 I wonder if shachaf is the shachaf I followed 21:29:07 i'm not https://twitter.com/funpuns hth 21:29:13 I may have done this before and then realized you don't tweet anything 21:29:25 I do occasionally! 21:29:44 but "@shachaf hasn't tweeted yet." 21:29:52 That's incorrect. 21:30:07 "@shachaf hasn't tweeted-and-not-deleted yet" 21:30:16 also considering just making a plain html document. 21:30:23 usually i delete my twits within a few hours or days 21:30:34 oerjan: do it 21:30:39 that's very antisocial, shachaf 21:30:46 deleting stuff, i mean 21:30:49 then ask a stackoverflow question that and link to your plain html document in the answer 21:31:00 then twit a link to your stackoverflow question 21:31:09 s/ that// 21:31:18 then post your twit on irc 21:31:39 olsner: You should circlify me on Google+ 21:31:46 I do have a couple of undeleted posts there. 21:31:50 I have unplussed my google, I think 21:31:56 Oh. 21:32:16 my employer has a google+ though 21:32:22 I also have some undeleted posts on Facebook. 21:32:30 -!- VictorCL has joined. 21:32:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:35:08 also considering haskell wiki but damn have they ruined the formatting 21:35:39 get an account on comonad.com and post it there hth 21:43:22 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:44:47 -!- mauris__ has joined. 21:44:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:44:50 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:46:40 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:49:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:51:10 oerjan: You could publish it as a PDF file and then restrict everyone from seeing it for months. 21:51:37 ooh 21:54:37 i hear your pal is an expert in publishing pdfs 21:56:16 shachaf: so what do you think of my thesis? 21:56:33 Haven't read it yet. :-( 21:57:04 and you went to so much trouble to get a copy, too 21:57:13 how about this: if it becomes publicly available before you get to read it 21:57:17 I get to mock you for it 21:58:27 You can already mock me for it if you want. 21:58:47 well yes 22:05:25 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:06:12 -!- VictorCL has joined. 22:06:13 create a file where the first 20 bytes are the file's sha1 22:06:56 and make it as short as possible 22:09:29 izabera: sha1? you may have some problems there 22:09:38 I'm not even sure it can be done with md5 yet 22:09:48 (there's an IOCCC entry that can do it with CRC-32) 22:11:17 pidgeon hole...? 22:11:49 "can" in a practical sense. 22:11:54 oh ok 22:12:38 you can however make a program that prints its own sha1, with standard quining techniques. 22:13:02 (or any other computable function of the source) 22:14:12 izabera: technically the pigeon hole principle _might_ not apply... it _could_ be that sha1 never gives the same as the initial 20 bytes 22:14:23 although it's pretty unlikely 22:15:44 well ok 22:15:47 right, I was going to say that 22:15:53 pigeonhole principle doesn't prove that you can do it 22:16:05 although a probabilistic argument does, unless SHA-1 has some weird rules we're currently unaware of 22:16:23 -!- VictorCL_ has joined. 22:16:23 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:16:29 Do you think sha1 is surjective? 22:16:42 it is 22:17:32 (let me find it) 22:19:30 -!- VictorCL has joined. 22:19:34 -!- VictorCL_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:21:16 http://stackoverflow.com/a/1896723/2815203 this guy says it is <.< 22:21:30 whoa whoa whoa 22:21:32 referral link 22:21:33 nice try 22:22:05 That person is talking about the codomain of SHA1, not the image. 22:23:32 today's square root of minus garfield seems girl genius inspired 22:23:41 SO has referral links? 22:24:29 yep 22:24:36 you get badges if enough people click your referral links 22:25:04 i didn't know it -.- 22:26:57 ok but badges don't really give you anything do they 22:27:11 they're shiny 22:27:35 @karma+ oerjan 22:27:35 oerjan's karma raised to 30. 22:27:45 thanks for making that good point 22:29:52 also it looks pretty awkward to get hold of a _non-referral_ link to an SO comment. 22:31:26 shachaf: rep at least gives you some moderation powers 22:33:58 izabera: i wouldn't be surprised if there's no actual known proof that SHA1 is surjective. the obvious way of proving such a thing is to find an inverse, but if that was even moderately efficient you could generate collisions at will... 22:34:35 of course i also don't know enough about SHA1 to have heard if there is such a proof. 22:34:51 I'm pretty sure no one knows for sure. 22:35:50 it is of course _possible_ that there could be an inverse that can be proven correct but is infeasible to actually calculate. 22:36:12 i guess you just mean a right inverse 22:36:39 well yes, was about to say, except this is one of those cases where i cannot remember what is left and right 22:42:18 -!- mauris__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:49:01 [wiki] [[Funciton/List handling]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44631&oldid=44348 * Timwi * (-119) Remove redundantly duplicated duplicate 22:49:28 -!- VictorCL has quit (Excess Flood). 22:54:56 -!- VictorCL has joined. 22:55:47 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:00:17 -!- VictorCL has joined. 23:10:35 -!- boily has joined. 23:17:24 -!- VictorCL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:17:58 I think in the very old Magic: the Gathering rules you could only counter a spell before it becomes successfully cast (in modern rules you can only counter a spell after it becomes successfully cast). 23:19:12 Did "successfully cast" mean something else in the old rules? 23:20:13 -!- VictorCL has joined. 23:20:16 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Emchatman * New user account 23:21:48 It means the process of casting it has been completed (as it does now), although it could be interrupted before, and therefore not successful. (At least I think this is how it is working) 23:24:05 I don't really understand the old rules (I only have a few diagrams and some other incomplete information), but it seems that, once an item on a stack resolved (or failed to resolve), you could no longer add to that stack until it is emptied (but you could add regeneration effects to a new stack during that time). 23:26:56 Interrupts do not use the stack (as now mana abilities do not use the stack) and normally resolve immediately, unless you target a spell which you did not cast and that the caster of that spell has not yet given up the right to target, in which case the interrupt is placed on a queue (not a stack); each spell has its own queue of interrupts targeting it. Well, at least that is what it looks like to me; I could be wrong. 23:29:42 -!- VictorCL_ has joined. 23:31:30 -!- VictorCL_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:32:50 -!- VictorCL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:39:03 why does stat(2) return the size in bytes in a off_t? 23:39:23 it's signed 23:39:25 and small 23:39:42 presumably because that's what fseek() takes as an argument 23:39:53 also stat64(2) uses a different return type for the size 23:40:08 because it was realised it was a problem 23:40:11 ah thanks 23:40:32 I believe stat(3) uses stat64(2) (or maybe something even newer?) behind the scenes nowadays 23:45:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.