< 1444694445 120878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you know anything about univalence? < 1444694445 338809 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ' yeah, but---' he < 1444694897 272807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like he won't talk for fear of shadowy reprisals < 1444695065 326860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You're among friends here, you can say whatever you like. < 1444695065 589307 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: s/ this parts/ these fnord? < 1444695076 955988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Be that way then. < 1444695077 195977 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: to do the intuitive notions of " what something is" is. < 1444695225 104552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, well that sounds relevant < 1444695225 400925 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you wouldn't force ml upon that group of programmers with ocaml, and cl < 1444695324 745686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that almost makes sense < 1444695339 583636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need now is to combine the two, fungot < 1444695339 762269 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so you can understand a price premium < 1444696039 950754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1444696533 282197 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :quarterlier quarterlion < 1444696589 265707 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Would you like us to put this quarterpanther in your quarters?" "No, I prefer something much quarterlier. Please give me a quarterlion." < 1444697091 25568 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444697900 816288 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :horsefatherist's horsefurtatles's < 1444697995 852111 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh yeah, those were my father's uncle's father's father's grandfather's horse's father's great-grandfather's father's father's horsefatherist's horsefurtatles's coarse potatoes." < 1444698025 4239 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :epycriptic egripcritic < 1444698038 614619 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, it really should have misremembered it as "epicryptic"! < 1444698284 572864 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :suburbanced suburbandad < 1444698837 721709 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :butterfuckers butterfuckens < 1444698846 12802 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those... < 1444698847 485673 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :those... < 1444698851 261157 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`loudly butterfuckers! < 1444698852 575162 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​04,09b09,04u04,09t09,04t04,09e09,04r04,09f09,04u04,09c09,04k04,09e09,04r04,09s09,04! < 1444699729 511222 :opal!~opal@h241.26.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444700807 692188 :opal!~opal@h241.26.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PART :#esoteric < 1444700918 406121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is amused at Wikipedia containing a transliteration of Notepad's incorrect decoding of "bush hid the facts" < 1444700936 956356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it look almost as if the replacement text is meaningful < 1444702012 445891 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444702500 449657 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1444702805 68110 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: PARIETAL CHICKEN < 1444703283 48628 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god xkcd has an IRC channel < 1444703349 824680 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my favorite irc channel discovery since finding out about this one < 1444703844 944162 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. Is anyone on? < 1444703895 129184 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program xdvi is using only the first page number register of each page; how to make it to use the other page number registers too? < 1444704213 884832 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07LOLCODE14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44697&oldid=44686 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+108) 10Removed the LOLSPEAK that some troll filled this article with < 1444704279 734034 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the joke was too good not to make. Don't worry, I didn't /actually/ vandalize the article, I just added some history so the edit would take) < 1444704382 586073 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which article did you not valdalize? < 1444704553 318157 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MagiStack14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44698&oldid=43792 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-4) 10some proofreading < 1444704597 294490 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444704608 132142 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Appendix D: Dirty Tricks" of the TeXbook is not dirty and tricky enough. < 1444704952 293923 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444704959 809827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was briefly worried that an anonymous IP changed most of the spec of Hyperfunge < 1444704972 809755 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turns out to be the same ip that created it < 1444705608 747306 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hyperfunge14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44699&oldid=43751 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+627) 10Some proofreading, table < 1444705734 199042 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444705834 772547 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07???14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44700&oldid=43919 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10section case < 1444705856 136613 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07???14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44701&oldid=44700 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10Um, and that one. < 1444706128 681945 :nchambers!nchambers@compilerdev.net NICK :SpruceZeusWhos < 1444706182 26529 :SpruceZeusWhos!nchambers@compilerdev.net NICK :SprucePooseZeus < 1444706269 451419 :SprucePooseZeus!nchambers@compilerdev.net NICK :nch < 1444706920 476724 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Stuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44702&oldid=43942 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+63) 10Some proofreading < 1444707416 211551 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Niblet14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44703&oldid=43886 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+57) 10Some proofreading < 1444707605 807766 :nch!nchambers@compilerdev.net NICK :nchambers < 1444707626 298574 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Snowman14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44704&oldid=43827 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+5) 10link, case < 1444707890 411766 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07CJam14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44705&oldid=44536 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+23) 10Some proofreading < 1444708255 733370 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07LindenMASM14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44706&oldid=43830 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+31) 10Some proofreading < 1444708360 60750 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444708373 960819 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another kind of card: "~ can block as though any number of objects had no abilities." < 1444708403 566371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: trying to make a creature that can block anything? < 1444708444 159616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure it works, imagine someone had cast a sorcery "creatures can't block this turn" earlier in the turn < 1444708466 567216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the time you have to choose blockers, that's an effect, not an ability < 1444708531 567568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it won't do that, but it is still something < 1444708547 98240 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444708572 613011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you seen the card Flash Foliage? it uses a different technique to block anything (unless it has hexproof or a similar ability) < 1444708625 757846 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Sclipting14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44707&oldid=43836 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+54) 10unsigned < 1444708627 886036 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have, but that is a different kind of thing. Still there is that similarity. < 1444708776 269152 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1444708851 311415 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1444709096 755961 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Pada14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44708&oldid=40541 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+450) 10Putting deleted thoughts here < 1444709194 794457 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Pada14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44709&oldid=43847 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+1) 10/* Examples */ link < 1444709903 925703 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Pb14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44710&oldid=43854 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10grm < 1444710610 288324 :rodgort!~rodgort@105.ip-167-114-152.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444710894 112927 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should create an in-depth article on Mapoles on the wiki < 1444710902 681278 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably under Hedwig Notta or something < 1444710926 130009 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should create an Esolang:Lore page and put all the stupid history as a subpage of that? < 1444710937 974506 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not under the Esolang namespace < 1444711066 306550 :rodgort!~rodgort@105.ip-167-114-152.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444711200 428268 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444711241 915850 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-229-111.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444711302 518157 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-229-111.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1444711381 271746 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1444711738 786497 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it need a new namespace? < 1444712604 571209 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444712610 629692 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44711&oldid=44227 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+2) 10link < 1444713204 761688 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Fourier14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44712&oldid=43907 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+10) 10bold, link and uncensor < 1444713507 316393 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07NSFW14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44713&oldid=43908 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-33) 10wikify < 1444713556 200043 :opal!~opal@h241.26.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444713594 671956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Yay, I'm catched up to when I started catching up < 1444714337 857218 :opal!~opal@h241.26.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PART :#esoteric < 1444715534 456050 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1444715710 544732 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I meant potentially under the main namespace, but then people might think "Lore" is the name of an esolang, or someday want to make an Esolang /named/ "Lore" < 1444715751 110205 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's amazing in mathematics that you can find something akin to the Prime Factorization of a number for fucking /polynomials/ < 1444716247 154914 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think there's a theorem or something that any system that has multiplication and division that behave in certain ways will have a prime-like thing < 1444716484 837035 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that is true < 1444716682 515021 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm well not all rings have primes... and not all fields either. I'm not sure what the conditions that cause primes to exist are < 1444716799 225281 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd guess infinitely many objects and an order? < 1444717146 611027 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Multiplication is needed too < 1444717154 508565 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: How does one define primes for the reals? < 1444717205 500380 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you need countably infinitely many objects < 1444717361 820945 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly < 1444717391 641491 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you need a smallest object < 1444717401 871045 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :du hyperreals have primes? < 1444717456 149285 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDK. < 1444717498 958870 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I just say "IDK." < 1444717504 226811 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should not be saying things like that < 1444717532 296976 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1444717540 482985 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1444717545 400245 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1444717592 573501 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess the real numbers in hyperreals don't have an order there are away from epsilon < 1444717884 642084 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-229-111.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444718999 934184 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lbklksexfjrrjmhm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1444719353 259157 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444719564 639635 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444719792 502027 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444719850 578708 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1444721083 703759 :mauris__!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444721260 642812 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444721271 530646 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444721413 216178 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444721447 736490 :mauris__!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1444721669 415873 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1444721691 258001 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1444722919 118456 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1444723934 379211 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, Girl Genius is down < 1444724195 440995 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444724280 425605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` quote 107 # <-- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/business/media/nudes-are-old-news-at-playboy.html?_r=0 < 1444724281 205066 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :107) reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it < 1444724298 635440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently playboy agree with me, they've decided to remove the porn and just keep the articles < 1444724338 259381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not predicting that at the time I made the quote… < 1444724392 74384 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444724484 481807 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444724508 424729 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444724508 601600 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1444724938 707220 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444724948 803693 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is writing a CPU simulator in plain assembler < 1444724983 173829 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely. from scratch. < 1444725009 649131 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which means I gotta implement my own versions of some libc functions) < 1444725046 115752 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1444725100 385024 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does anyone have any idea how I can embed debug symbols with nasm? < 1444725120 109576 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm -g -f elf -Fstabs main.asm < 1444725122 992984 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to really work < 1444725196 761891 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I need to declare these functions as global < 1444725198 838398 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be it < 1444725238 974046 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, that's not it < 1444725304 187597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should work; I've had it work. < 1444725313 808081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although possibly as -Fdwarf. < 1444725376 340387 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah < 1444725379 411268 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linker stripped symbols :D < 1444725383 578261 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1444725396 132888 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the usual stack frame thing expect that esp does not change? < 1444725416 638055 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like if you do any push then the back trace get's mangled < 1444725442 127466 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/m95R4ri8 < 1444725447 717473 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those in ?? are actually arguments < 1444725450 71511 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not saved eips < 1444725472 92728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be. Normally you'd need the annotations, and NASM couldn't really generate those automatically. < 1444725561 335325 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my esp changes when I save registers to the stack < 1444725611 586053 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean that's the way it should be anyway < 1444725624 842660 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :push ebp; mov ebp, esp; add esp, SIZEOF(locals); < 1444725663 159580 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1444725703 723516 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric : eip = 0x804808a in str_len_loop; saved eip 0x1 < 1444725706 931419 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so wrong < 1444725768 301722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If gdb thinks you've got debugging information, it might ignore ebp, since -fomit-frame-pointer is so common. Who knows. < 1444725816 957705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any way of manually doing the CFI annotations in NASM, though. < 1444725899 438954 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd thought gdb looks at the value of ebp < 1444725902 146848 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the register ebp < 1444725914 682510 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) x/4x $ebp < 1444725915 933471 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xbffff504: 0xbffff520 0x080480ac 0x080490d4 0x00000000 < 1444725920 160874 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ebp is correct < 1444725929 164791 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...520 is the saved ebp < 1444725936 814384 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :80480ac is the return address < 1444725946 635787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but how would it know it's correct, except with some random sanity-check heuristics? < 1444725952 869934 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444726009 476133 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's not looking at ebp at what is it looking? < 1444726061 29931 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's looking at ESP < 1444726066 148091 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it assumes that no ebp on the stack is present < 1444726066 589326 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESP + the DWARF CFI ("call frame information") data, which you won't have. < 1444726088 744962 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) x/4x $esp < 1444726089 626923 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xbffff4fc: 0x00000001 0x080490d4 0xbffff520 0x080480ac < 1444726100 44859 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's looking directly at esp and thinks 0x1 is the saved eip < 1444726113 504021 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is wrong because that's an argument that has been pushed to the stack < 1444726132 454603 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a local, or a saved register depending on the exact circumstances < 1444726171 942191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'quit < 1444726173 544834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1444726359 945120 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it has debug informations for most of your functions, so it knows which function stores its local variables (including next stack frame) where < 1444726374 157774 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try #gdb :D < 1444726388 403208 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It doesn't have debug informations if you don't give it any debug informations. < 1444726392 68754 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1444726404 659722 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should compile the program with debug information, preferably with -Og -ggdb < 1444726418 6329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and libraries with debug information too < 1444726419 480634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should read the scrollback buffer. < 1444726438 376610 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this is the other channel < 1444726439 775338 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a handwritten piece of NASM, and there seems to be no way to annotate NASM source with DWARF CFI annotations to generate the stack frame layout information. < 1444726441 806323 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry then < 1444726449 934614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not my problem. :) < 1444726616 608057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: By the way, "add esp, SIZEOF(locals)" looks very wrong, unless your SIZEOF is negative. < 1444726677 269987 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1444726697 486495 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was just to emphasize on that even in gcc generated Code esp changes < 1444726712 467292 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, which is why GCC puts in the necessary debugging information. < 1444726712 644251 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but yes, it's doing a sub to allocate and add to clean up) < 1444726727 339310 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assumed that backtraces work by relying on the ebp value < 1444726732 55829 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ebp usually doesn't change < 1444726747 190932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebp quite commonly doesn't have anything to do with the stack. < 1444726752 329632 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after the push ebp; mov ebp, esp; epilogue) < 1444726763 166662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC enables -fomit-frame-pointer by default on -O2 and higher for x86, IIRC. < 1444726774 372860 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it enables it with optimizations yes < 1444726777 146878 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :using ebp as the frame pointer should be quite common on x86 < 1444726794 686574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well: using it, and not using it, should both be relatively common. < 1444726806 402188 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... used to be, because indeed -fomit-frame-pointer has become quite standard. < 1444726821 455780 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I manipulate registers in gdb? < 1444726822 919229 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uhm < 1444726825 367239 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$esp = $ebp < 1444726828 217824 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and as usual, for these kinds of things, getting BOTH a non-ancient compiler and a non-ancient debugger helps a great deal < 1444726831 714112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: yes you can < 1444726837 23653 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444726852 593573 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you may need to put "p " or "set variable " at the start of the gdb command for that < 1444726862 111534 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it might break the program < 1444726867 89446 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/gqht55jS < 1444726870 629540 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn. < 1444726873 710305 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still wrong < 1444726879 626090 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bff..520 is the saved ebp on the stack < 1444726881 789306 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a return address < 1444726883 556834 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, don't you mean $rsp and $rbp ? < 1444726890 873311 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're debuggin x86_32 < 1444726891 944774 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad < 1444726907 603652 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh < 1444726909 840808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I assume it's not assuming a saved ebp, if it's not looking for a frame pointer. < 1444726916 998934 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try skipping it. < 1444726917 296431 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1444726927 279192 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then I gotta do manual backtraces I guess < 1444726951 872356 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I can configure gdb somehow to trust my ebp < 1444727016 938483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you've only got that one level of your own non-debug-info'ed functions, you could set $esp = $ebp+4 before backtracing. < 1444727020 513888 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you could try to learn dwarf and write debugging information manually into your assembly code, but that's probably a pain < 1444727037 604500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use GAS and write the .cfi_... directives. < 1444727085 222017 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :#gdb might be able to help you switch it to trusting the frame pointer for backtraces; I couldn't find an obvious way. < 1444727087 575786 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444727118 915675 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or rather, to avoid rewriting, you could use some other assembler that can take nasm syntax but also other stuff and extensions, such as http://yasm.tortall.net/ < 1444727126 826418 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't hvae to change everything to gas syntax < 1444727222 642781 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If i'd have only one level, yes :) < 1444727226 966770 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if have more :D < 1444727227 252678 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444727293 59370 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems to work < 1444727306 347842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I looked at the Yasm manual, and "Chapter 19. dwarf2: DWARF2 Debugging Format" is completely empty, which didn't fill me with confidence. < 1444727343 113540 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm. yeah, while that might still mean they support the same syntax as some other assembler, but didn't care to document it, it isn't inspring much confidence. < 1444727531 160611 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444727684 517696 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could try -Fdwarf < 1444727743 206549 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same bug :( < 1444727783 325381 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444727842 722294 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but -Fdwarf seems to include some source information < 1444727846 479676 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no symbol table < 1444727869 854806 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444727909 355899 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444728073 82106 :augur_!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444728180 442355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the lack of symbol table (presumably), it's the lack of CFI. < 1444728203 721978 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't expect a lowly assembler to generate that kind of thing for you. < 1444728587 495863 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1444728592 588508 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but assembler is god :( < 1444728676 224467 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444728682 594350 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1444728684 271960 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words < 1444728690 823369 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the lack of gdb's trust for ebp < 1444728695 731911 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in ebp < 1444729041 218866 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1444729313 254600 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444729364 911676 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb can't even do proper function stepping < 1444729373 603038 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb really lacks some neat features < 1444729583 240331 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444729934 433505 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444730228 63234 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some better docs about linux syscalls would be nice < 1444730278 636065 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/open.2.html <- I mean wtf is this < 1444730298 143267 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a syscall documentation, that's a C api documentation < 1444730485 400675 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I gotta grep the linux source code for the necessary values < 1444730648 896000 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdonly apparentely is 0 < 1444730706 338512 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: yes, O_RDONLY is 0, O_WRONLY is 1, O_RDWR is 2, everywhere except on hurd which just wants to be different < 1444730749 400731 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: the constants are defined in /usr/include/bits/fcntl.h usually < 1444730764 397372 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't they just properly document the syscall interface somewhere? < 1444730770 933079 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all flags and values etc. < 1444730805 163595 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: go and submit patches if you want. < 1444730829 30066 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys know how to force a certain order for my man pages? < 1444730841 274339 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: by changing the manpath? try man man < 1444730853 433349 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it seems random < 1444730859 559797 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me show you < 1444730866 319589 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :patches to what? < 1444730866 841575 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arin.ga/jpamzo/raw < 1444730885 429546 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: patches to man-pages. see instructions at https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/contributing.html < 1444730894 722386 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those man-pages document the C interface < 1444730913 576880 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: yes, and some of them do mention the values of the constants, so you can add them to other pages in a similar format < 1444730920 910362 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it would also be neat to have it show the values of the constants for the C interface as well) < 1444730930 974117 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: see http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/chmod.2.html for example, which mentions the values of the constants < 1444730982 389056 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can add them in a similar format to other pages < 1444730983 766430 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can ignore the mode_t if I'm not using O_CREAT < 1444731038 743244 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily, most of the syscalls have a C api that corresponds straightforwardly to the underlying syscall. The multiplexer system call called "socketcall" which groups like twelve different syscalls for some reason is an exception. < 1444731166 279100 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I for one would rather prefer to pretend that there's _always_ a mode_t argument, it's just sometimes ignored. It's optional in the c api only for compatibility with REALLY ancient unix, which didn't have O_CREAT. < 1444731239 357209 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :open should return a fd in eax right? < 1444731274 271246 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: hmm wait, let me get my link for that old document that documents the unix abi < 1444731280 722790 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is -4 somehow a special fd? < 1444731283 282592 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: what os and arch exactly? < 1444731287 499748 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: no, -4 is errno=4 < 1444731300 278207 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is EINTR < 1444731353 275176 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: most syscalls on unix return either a normal value (often 0) or a negated errno, and glibc interprets that and puts it to errno < 1444731366 669227 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel can't put a value in errno, because that's a libc-only construct, and per-thread and stuff < 1444731412 559152 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1444731417 624919 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interrupted function call < 1444731421 484331 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that < 1444731426 516236 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: can you tell what os and arch you are on? I'll give you links < 1444731458 852473 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what os and arch that particular program was compiled for < 1444731530 411155 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444731531 730114 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-E2 is hopefully EEXISTS? < 1444731537 63261 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-2 < 1444731551 391695 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: 2 is ENOENT < 1444731556 251184 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, let me check that < 1444731570 764570 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENOENT < 1444731571 656146 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :je < 1444731574 294893 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such file or directory < 1444731576 421233 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1444731590 995846 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/errno but note that while the low numbered ones are generally the same everywhere, the hgih numbered ones are dependent on the os and possibly also the cpu < 1444731603 794896 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that file is old < 1444731614 25513 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://refspecs.linuxbase.org/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executable_and_Linkable_Format have some useful links about the C abi used by unix, < 1444731647 297384 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :including how C types and structures are represented, function call conventions, libc functions and types, and system calls < 1444731657 760137 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me just touch the file < 1444731674 289134 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the CPU? < 1444731677 988376 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the depend on the CPU? < 1444731691 412348 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean.. those errnos are define < 1444731694 790064 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I compile a C program < 1444731705 880881 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be pretty bad if the errno's werent the same on somebody elses machine < 1444731708 239536 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) info registers < 1444731709 159383 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eax 0x7 7 < 1444731713 466475 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: no, when I said cpu, I mean the cpu architecture < 1444731722 617001 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a valid fd < 1444731735 746430 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you compile the program for one cpu architecture, it won't run on another cpu architecture (x86_32 vs x86_64 vs everything else) < 1444731747 559953 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444731762 83447 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the program even starts, the numbers won't change < 1444731797 618062 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, generally) < 1444731816 335248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the abi is effectively defined only by the existing tools, not written down, but those documents I mentioned should give a good starting point about this. < 1444731902 290202 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course note that all of that ABI stuff applies to only the functions and structures exported from separately compiled translation units, or on the boundary of the kernel and the program. Within a single compilation unit, the C compiler is allowed to optimize a lot and that can involve representing data or function calls differently. < 1444731936 400035 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why you need all that complicated debugging information for the debugger, and often have to remove some optimizations with -Og, to be able to inspect everything with the debugger. < 1444731991 986547 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you still haven't told me what os and cpu you are on though < 1444732057 474611 :mauris__!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444732097 281064 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86, linux < 1444732098 99998 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1444732109 730275 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uname -a < 1444732110 763605 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux clt-mob-t-6246 3.2.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.2.68-1+deb7u1 i686 GNU/Linux < 1444732117 40662 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1444732118 841007 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have pae < 1444732119 654984 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1444732136 757541 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1444732149 234059 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: uname might not always help though, it tells about the kernel, not the particular program :-) < 1444732170 93747 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on a freebsd x86_64 machine I can run a program compiled for linux x86_32 < 1444732181 423031 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444732189 209416 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to write a CPU simulator in bare bones assembly < 1444732208 660111 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for linux, x86) < 1444732555 337270 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444732790 602679 :mauris__!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444733347 56985 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1444734629 235535 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing I made: (vertical scale is a bit off): http://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/mandelbrot.png < 1444735040 547696 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program that made that ran in 87 minutes on two cores < 1444735088 140158 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my io_read_block seems to read a bunch of 0x00 < 1444735091 326650 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of actual data :( < 1444735109 649511 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :althouh eax = 3 < 1444735113 822451 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it read three bytes < 1444735121 824373 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE ARE MY 3 BYTES :( < 1444735180 637793 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1444735262 985632 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmin in assembler is so fun < 1444735331 889969 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44714 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+349) 10Created page with "{{Stub}} Designed by SuperJedi224, '''BotEngine''' is an upcoming 2D programming language inspired by the game [[Manufactoria]]. Execution consists of one or more "bots", eac..." < 1444735365 211636 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44715&oldid=44714 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+38) 10 < 1444735454 825295 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: ADVERSE CHICKEN < 1444735653 193373 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444735704 109033 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44716&oldid=44715 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+483) 10 < 1444735743 896660 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44717&oldid=44716 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+47) 10/* Instructions */ < 1444735776 577887 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on anagol, is there a way to tell when a problem was submitted, for an active problem? < 1444735792 271007 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the homepage tells for how long it's active < 1444735862 193643 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444736154 427475 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.188 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444736214 225578 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444736307 212750 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1444736390 361178 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444736713 241244 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444736888 624104 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1444737099 57137 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1444737261 478438 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444737449 254293 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444737546 590813 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444737693 221793 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1444737803 352769 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444738108 338865 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444738261 534452 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444738581 217715 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444738619 429446 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444739038 183214 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444739069 218676 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444739376 208234 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444739376 385432 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1444739376 385479 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1444739394 200325 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1444739478 236447 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444739718 319464 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH JOIN :#esoteric < 1444739783 42652 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: BBL < 1444740357 250584 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-229-111.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1444741515 550937 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to do logarithms in dc < 1444741699 490094 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1444742520 798041 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd answer, but then the next question would be "how?"... < 1444742584 731814 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not built in, but dc is Turing complete so it's just an exercise for the interested programmer to write code that approximates logarithms to an desired precision) < 1444742943 255345 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help I'm tempted to do my family tree again < 1444743112 330200 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444744507 181108 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Wouldn't that be a dag? I mean, eventually... ) < 1444744567 88180 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1444744604 510331 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty soon in my ancestry, two of my grandparents were first cousins < 1444745297 757523 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444746038 952739 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07NSFW14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44718&oldid=44713 5* 0391.155.73.101 5* (+13) 10 < 1444746428 305769 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444748870 695403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1444748932 981373 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44719&oldid=44717 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+216) 10 < 1444749283 918641 :pdxleif!~pdxleif@ec2-54-68-166-10.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444749454 983386 :pdxleif!~pdxleif@ec2-54-68-166-10.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1444750259 801874 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 NICK :bender < 1444750260 227898 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444750299 493215 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444750716 564575 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44720&oldid=44719 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+316) 10 < 1444751004 956134 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444751124 9840 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Quit: Ping Pong Fuckout < 1444751958 906229 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to see a VERY BIG IMAGE that I rendered but CANNOT SEE because it is TOO DAMN BIG < 1444751959 427797 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/mandelbrot.png < 1444752109 121287 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444752115 950663 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/LaK99cVI < 1444752122 746763 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly [edx+bl] isn't a valid offset < 1444752220 591765 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: cute, feh manages in just under 1GB... so 32 bits per pixel < 1444752285 208015 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :My chromebook doesn't have enough memory to even try < 1444752416 889179 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"display" uses 5GB < 1444752438 259589 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's only 20k*10k pixels < 1444752444 657094 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1444752447 454948 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Firefox froze for a second or two < 1444752456 817762 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took me 4 hours to render with 2 cores < 1444752464 900423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can view it fine < 1444752470 145872 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whta do you want about it? < 1444752476 968718 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I extract a rectangle or something? < 1444752479 237957 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to show it off < 1444752486 216172 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it looks pretty < 1444752512 626652 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox also uses about 1GB. < 1444752555 985884 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can't really be appreciated without infinite resolution... < 1444752606 389177 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite resolution is difficult < 1444752637 897724 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a PNG, probably not possible :) < 1444752650 789833 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution: The LLVM Image Format < 1444752662 661541 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, that's not esoteric < 1444752668 245102 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Brainfuck Image Format < 1444752727 792603 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :images are represented by a brainfuck program that, given two 64-bit floating point values, outputs the colour of the pixel < 1444752766 797916 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not infinite resolution, but unless you want to change "floating point" to "big-decimals"... < 1444752846 633469 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit floating point is definitely not infinite resolution < 1444752867 237439 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so big decimals it is < 1444752878 518633 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to work out how anyone would ever implement it < 1444752922 750109 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you want nice manelbrot images and videos, there's some at http://www.madore.org/~david/math/mandelbrot.html < 1444752935 371344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mandelbrot is one case where you actually _would_ want infinite resolution rather than just 64-bit. because zoooooming. < 1444753127 11774 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raytraced films that are sent as Brainfuck programs... < 1444753189 834957 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my str_cat is broken < 1444753190 625096 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1444753579 156321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I was expecting something to actually happen, but the "mem" in my silly taskbar thing just stayed at 43%. Oh well, memory use estimation is an inexact science. < 1444753585 52817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Opened it in a Chrome tab.) < 1444753629 640810 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no "find" option in Chrome's internal task manager and I've got too many tabs, I can't find it in the list. < 1444753685 383185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there it is. It's using "216,608K" of memory, in a process shared by three tabs. < 1444753716 117330 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how it would count something like graphical resources. < 1444753755 269219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's doing some sort of load-on-demand thing, because if I scroll by real fast, it takes a while to blink in. < 1444753784 94431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And actively flushing that out, because scrolling back-and-forth doesn't become fast.) < 1444753851 349662 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds reasonable < 1444753942 178541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't use much memory in the "zoomed-out" view, so I'm guessing it also rendered a low-res version for that. < 1444754537 194592 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444755213 854675 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why's there so little things about C-- available? < 1444755264 218984 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because it never really made it outside ghc < 1444755680 992568 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which C--? aren't there like three different languages called that? < 1444755730 777284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1444756153 624621 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1444756223 724066 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1444756308 393696 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1444756913 63507 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1444757092 527117 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444757237 310027 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1444757669 932839 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the one GHC use(s|d). < 1444757913 242071 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1444757915 344520 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444758077 696789 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1444758085 910995 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think people have a poor understanding of why certain people are not allowed to donate blood. < 1444758086 88054 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444758086 505893 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1444758089 135049 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like people with cancer. < 1444758093 312122 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444758106 488831 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444758236 941431 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.136 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1444758252 444400 :Effilry!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1444758276 965458 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_Derivatives should be moved to its own page and the original location should become a page about what a BF derivative /is/ < 1444758292 644960 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a "Critisism" section < 1444758324 819133 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Excess Flood < 1444758332 457743 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444758352 438606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1] do you want to take up the torch of hating bf derivatives < 1444758369 468852 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444758389 405278 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think I'm qualified, having made a couple. < 1444758400 945561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we can cover that up < 1444758403 127854 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only feel qualified to hate derivatives that don't do enough < 1444758422 935595 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derivatives that do something new and unique are cool. < 1444758435 657270 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck provides a good base to build off of < 1444758462 341273 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought attempts to make it /more/ minimalistic are good. < 1444758494 634904 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were to take up the torch, I would establish a "Comittee of Brainfuck Derivative Approval", which would decide whether a given derivative deserves its own page < 1444758506 475766 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Phantom Hoover14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44721&oldid=20891 5* 03Phantom Hoover 5* (-85) 10the end of an era < 1444758576 546488 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just purge all BF-derivatives except for brainfuck itself and Ook, with fire < 1444758602 517767 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Ook? Seriously? < 1444758624 92901 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about, for example, a derivative that I'm thinking of called "ThueFuck", which is based on strings intead of integers? < 1444759414 802294 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Essays/A Defence of Brainfuck Derivatives14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44722 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+1562) 10Started rough draft < 1444759435 816616 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm playing devil's advocate, for the record) < 1444759512 804405 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook is not particularly remarkable either actually < 1444759556 17799 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe it's not, but I personally would not want to anger an orang-outan < 1444759664 69045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not the one suggesting to purge everything with fire, though. < 1444759822 60708 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote we go through the wiki and uncensor every occurense of "Brainf*ck" or "Brainf***" < 1444759830 952755 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spelled "occurance" wrong. < 1444759836 433708 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a moron. < 1444759845 882034 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I probably spelled it wrong again there) < 1444759860 584308 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard. occurrence < 1444759870 968341 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, create two new languages, brainf*ck and brainf***, very unlike brainfuck, and make them point to them < 1444759888 31232 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean that, I had to check how many "r" there are in that word) < 1444759963 904699 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THere we go... < 1444759978 748575 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I already came up with that idea xD < 1444759984 825508 :augur_!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1444759991 69134 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seriously considering doing that < 1444760021 7560 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One should be based on λ-calculus, the other on Graph Rewriting (Kolmogorov Machines possibly) < 1444760060 701350 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag machines are also interesting < 1444760069 791765 :Effilry!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly NICK :FireFly < 1444760075 924443 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho there's only so much you can do with them < 1444760083 872321 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are tag machines? < 1444760101 532429 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think we should require Brainf*ck and Brainf*** to be TC) < 1444760106 855216 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tag system < 1444760115 120610 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tag_system < 1444760175 8292 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue-like graph rewriting might work < 1444760260 280916 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :expression rewriting (a lá CAS) tarpit would be interesting, too. I don't think I've seen an esolang based on it < 1444760294 814084 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expression rewriting? < 1444760296 892389 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting... < 1444760317 720292 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggested a language where the AST is a Directed Graph instead of a tree < 1444760337 600221 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Control Flow is only possible by nesting an instruction inside itself < 1444760360 7132 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Is expression rewriting anything like Algbebra? < 1444760368 536132 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh right. CAS.) < 1444760371 798045 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1444760379 449863 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/purelang/pure-lang/wiki/Rewriting ← I was thinking of this < 1444760380 421310 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Algebra System < 1444760390 956861 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wxnhecftpgwrxdmy JOIN :#esoteric < 1444760431 252351 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /was/ thinking of adding a CAS to be builtin to my language < 1444760466 77573 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm attempting to make a useful programming language while preserving Esolangity < 1444760533 207114 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: The language would have importable syntax features (combinators come to mind) < 1444760563 776481 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could literally do `getsynt combinators / import SK / I = SKK` < 1444760643 287235 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you think of any special syntaxes I could allow to be imported? < 1444760671 461492 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1444760671 909864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 131750Z 07004KT 040V120 8000 FEW007 SCT013 BKN030 11/09 Q1011 NOSIG < 1444760705 197330 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: how about being able to import some syntax stuff that allows for rpn? < 1444760715 571031 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: That might work < 1444760730 77085 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, there are special strings for embedded codes < 1444761122 424810 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1444761293 270829 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444761420 585958 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444761565 323661 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444761586 7577 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm /finally/ back! < 1444761619 268035 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to do, for example, combinators, you need a special string of something like this syntax: < 1444761635 733102 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I = cmb'''S K K''' < 1444761642 879355 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A special string with a "type" prefix < 1444761651 354449 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444761693 793231 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1444761708 249346 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps... I don't know what syntax to use. < 1444761717 167459 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinator{SKK}? < 1444761724 803716 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works. < 1444761789 519450 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though {} is also used for Dicts AND sets < 1444761815 921146 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is also used, I'd imagine < 1444761826 587421 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about <> < 1444761862 787516 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: That could be confused with if the variable "combinator" is less than "SKK" < 1444761872 823878 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1444761887 77101 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is used for lists and list subscripting (in a very pythonic way) < 1444761942 273011 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of anything that combinator{} would mean... < 1444761946 126716 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not make it for strings? < 1444761973 487261 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, special strings < 1444761983 647595 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That significantly simplifies parsing < 1444761994 247231 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntaxes you could get are: < 1444762041 338778 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`getsynt thue, combinators, xml, sexpr, yaml` at LEAST < 1444762042 179045 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: getsynt: not found < 1444762047 203232 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right. Hackbot. < 1444762099 453064 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A *good* IDE will syntax highlight special string) < 1444762106 136536 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/string/strings/ < 1444762188 977617 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can literally include XML directly into the language. That'd be used in GUI < 1444762237 881907 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Can't forget that there'll be some formal grammar libraries < 1444762524 475475 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44723&oldid=44720 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+236) 10 < 1444762655 291950 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the name of that linguistics-oriented programming language? < 1444762682 948741 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google linguistics-oriented programming language < 1444762684 645647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://boole.stanford.edu/pub/lingol.html < 1444762684 828849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: A Linguistics Oriented Programming Language < 1444762729 442690 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tht'a not it < 1444762735 970408 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1444762744 755301 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been googling for the last 10-15 minutes trying to find it < 1444762748 891235 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that's < 1444763102 427480 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lack precision on your deacription < 1444763178 617077 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I was discussing a linguistics-oriented programming language. Someone sent a link. It's called "Grammar " < 1444763204 818042 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to bookmark the page < 1444763232 942382 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was too long ago to investigate my local logs. I don't know what day it was for the online logs < 1444763302 774849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444763459 92284 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1444763516 67080 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44724&oldid=44723 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+36) 10 < 1444764872 443804 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1444765038 916131 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44725&oldid=44724 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+68) 10/* Examples */ < 1444765097 518294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds it interesting that the computational complexity of matrix multiplication is unknown, but appears to be polynomial with a non-integer exponent between 2 and 3 < 1444765329 597905 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44726&oldid=44725 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+373) 10 < 1444765476 237539 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44727&oldid=44726 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+53) 10 < 1444765667 510590 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444765749 312164 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444765848 498057 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444766187 750307 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some programs the syntax can be changed so it cannot highlight properly except if you execute the program. < 1444766253 946827 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444766517 368811 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What uses can you think of for making insertion classes in TeX that use a negative multiplier and/or negative extra space skip? < 1444766830 976009 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1444766977 780642 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a stack-based language called dijkstra for Junction < 1444767031 300677 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1444767403 331431 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1444767563 443661 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444767567 707448 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to decide something for Dijaskra < 1444767709 416957 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fuction syntax can either be, for example, "2 `sqrt" which pushes 2 on the stack then calls sqrt on it OR "2 sqrt `" which pushes 2 on the stack, pushes sqrt on the stack, then pops sqrt and calls it with 2 as its argument < 1444767745 481950 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter seems more esoteric < 1444767751 349504 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the former is less consistent, which might be esoteric < 1444767759 310320 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It isn't actually meant to be esoteric xD < 1444767763 334943 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not completely < 1444767770 367205 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really just stacky to be easier to implement < 1444767859 914038 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter seems more strict and will lead to better code, and calling an argument on the output of a function makes more sense that way, but the former seems looks better, but it isn't as clean and if I want to do `` it's harder to implement < 1444767930 162353 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seems to look < 1444767952 334851 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll do the latter < 1444768132 379572 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444768558 401004 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-94.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1444769137 276976 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1444769761 42643 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1444769848 125910 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1444770095 979346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1444770506 218869 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444770984 819613 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1444771016 532171 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444771057 772039 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1444771099 548523 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444771305 859306 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444772313 383657 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44728&oldid=44727 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+65) 10 < 1444772400 188883 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wxnhecftpgwrxdmy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1444773271 328582 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444773281 728907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1444773302 27346 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FISH SIMULATOR 2015! < 1444773948 405208 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1444774304 400059 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444774811 431219 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444775000 193669 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444775460 388108 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-66.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1444776432 448786 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BotEngine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44729&oldid=44728 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+51) 10/* Instructions */ < 1444777681 568632 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444777692 220005 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of a new (Eso)?lang Design Game. < 1444777761 22965 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't like sports, but for some reason I'm always looking for ways to convert Esolang Design /into/ a sport. Guess I just don't like the physical action.) < 1444777842 208732 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: You active right now? < 1444777952 868577 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not appear to be so < 1444778179 110947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzzzoily < 1444778227 549556 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan < 1444778556 784512 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1444778596 634718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1444778660 678823 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I thought up a new possible kind of "game" for designing esolangs < 1444778676 804380 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Elendiastarman 5* 10New user account < 1444778700 624072 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! New friends! < 1444778717 494622 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is METAFONT turing complete? < 1444778726 872202 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue what that even is. < 1444778733 936168 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game is basically this: Pre-designed EBNF. < 1444778740 435126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no:elendig = en:awful hth < 1444778825 917194 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A machine/program is used to generate a random EBNF from a set of randomly-generated/selected regex tokens < 1444778906 697023 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is up to the participants/teams to take that BNF and tokens, design a language using that (some rules could allow the BNF to be extended), and, if the competition requires design a lexer, parser, and executer to execute their designed language < 1444778971 674840 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Snoozalicious < 1444779022 391953 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: allow me to once again express enthusiasm about your idea for a language where the syntax doesn't form a tree. < 1444779083 262485 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Thank you. I thought about that on my walk home and am still attempting to figure out how that'd work < 1444779110 63880 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: are you familiar with the concept of a context-free language/grammar? < 1444779118 839463 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: A bit. < 1444779133 904931 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do a non-looping directed graph with something like x+y*z parsing to x+y and y*z, but that can become a tree too easily < 1444779206 377555 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, the thing about an unambiguous context-free language is that words in the language are in a one-to-one correspondence with parse trees in the language. < 1444779225 232204 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And each node in the parse tree simply corresponds to a "phrase", so to speak, within that word. < 1444779247 568822 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So one approach is to just add syntax rules which *aren't* context-free. < 1444779264 47686 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I believe I understood that (but I'm not sure xD) < 1444779270 442743 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first part, not the second) < 1444779276 330556 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one approach, I suppose < 1444779311 585422 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still attempting to figure out what a non-context-free language is, because it seems to me that ANYTHING can be expressed in BNF, which is context-free if I'm correct < 1444779343 148350 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language where the program source is a set of points and the program is defined by the unique polynomial of lowest degree containing those points. < 1444779353 754845 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a language that can't be expressed in BNF: the set of all strings of digits that are the decimal expansion of a prime number. < 1444779379 387517 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's another thought. Every context-free language can be represented easily as a sub-language of the "parentheses language"—do you know the language I'm talking about? < 1444779396 485520 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. Stuff you need a TM for. < 1444779402 290737 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1444779414 21854 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, something more powerful than a nondeterministic push-down automaton. < 1444779427 882576 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of the "Parentheses langauge" < 1444779448 310969 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the language whose words are the strings composed of "correctly matched parentheses". < 1444779464 643389 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an unambiguous grammar for it: < 1444779465 565628 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right < 1444779477 933195 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric : ::= "(" ")" | epsilon < 1444779501 420912 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1444779503 746488 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So here's my thought, then. < 1444779505 593411 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, epsilon? < 1444779513 959718 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epsilon means the empty string. < 1444779516 190036 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right. Empty string < 1444779525 398771 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Dammit! You beat me! :P) < 1444779541 122748 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider how you might make the parentheses language such that it has a "parse digraph" instead of a parse tree. < 1444779574 260069 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it currently is, every pair of parentheses has at most one pair of parentheses which is the "next layer out". < 1444779592 325467 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how would you make it so a pair of parentheses can have *more* than one pair of parentheses which are the "next layer out"? < 1444779634 786248 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out if this leads to a "What you're suggesting is entirely illogical" and you're just trying to help me figure it out on my own xD < 1444779652 999099 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's nothing inconsistent about your idea at all. < 1444779669 798606 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought of an idea that I really like: tie points! < 1444779672 426041 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me explain. < 1444779686 74694 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^n b^n c^n, the canonical non-context-free language. :) < 1444779712 651018 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavellon[1], hellørjan. I think I'm active. < 1444779713 529739 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1444779718 174464 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1444779718 351473 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1d 8h 1m 31s ago: you may need to mapole around a bit. see the logs. < 1444779738 145729 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an otherwise-normal expression with "tie points" inserted: (<1> a + b) * (c + d) * (<1> e + f) < 1444779757 237913 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The <1>s are the tie points. < 1444779775 835908 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tie points are/do...? < 1444779791 487724 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, let me give you a different one. Just a string, not really an expression. < 1444779795 39331 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :a<1>bc<1>d < 1444779803 891588 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lightly mapoles izabera < 1444779823 676540 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tie points denote, essentially, that parsing can freely jump from one point to the other. < 1444779825 936141 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words... < 1444779833 795542 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah! < 1444779839 528061 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a" is followed immediately by "b", but "a" is *also* followed immediately by "d". < 1444779855 952682 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"d" is preceded immediately by "c", but it's also preceded immediately by "a". < 1444779857 695823 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1444779857 882340 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so forth. < 1444779879 495592 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might help towards the Multiparentheses Language < 1444779882 732790 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, how you'd parse this is a difficult question... < 1444779929 315886 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Well, you'd probably... no... maybe you could? nah... hm... < 1444779933 551268 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Course, one straightforward way to "de-context-free-ify" a language is by making it so that bracket matching is denoted by something other than positioning. < 1444779947 307548 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So here's an expression: (a + [b + c) + d] < 1444779961 615275 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tangle brackets! Yay! < 1444779965 991436 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1444779968 547644 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even... < 1444779972 175588 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) + (b < 1444779972 373449 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or does the "(" match the "]"?) < 1444779975 666974 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa < 1444779993 476808 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the expression within parentheses there is... uh... um... < 1444780003 538006 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, here's yet another idea. < 1444780008 606773 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1444780022 240855 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :First figure out what the "parse digraphs" of your language are going to look like, then figure out how to represent that by strings of symbols. < 1444780024 882074 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1, 2] ⊂ [1, 3[ < 1444780053 852048 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1444780060 504624 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need paper, probably < 1444780061 140812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite related, but let's mention for the record that some Schemes have syntax that lets you write non-tree s-expressions, stuff like #1=(a b #2 d #2=(x y #1)) < 1444780067 684078 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there a good graph drawing tool online? < 1444780079 192248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: draw.io isn't have bad. < 1444780094 838464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/have/half/ < 1444780133 461113 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. So. The multiparentheses language. < 1444780183 729582 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444780189 802157 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I make something LISPy? < 1444780198 104215 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that we can see it actually do something? < 1444780209 384406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think draw.io is an offshoot of "old" (not that old) JGraph, via their JavaScript reimagining called mxGraph.) < 1444780230 156092 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the syntax that is used to specify non-tree programs usually consists of trees. < 1444780286 355019 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION equally mapoles int-e < 1444780327 549262 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAPOLES-4-+ITY! < 1444780375 186788 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Read: "Mapoles For Equality!") < 1444780401 677633 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you're not using UTF-7, are you? < 1444780412 915721 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: tell me, what's this: -+ < 1444780426 491341 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does UTF-7 even work that way? I don't remember. < 1444780428 920609 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that syntax wrong again, it would've been #0=(a b #1# d #1=(x y #0#)) for that example. < 1444780436 225659 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: - is a dash and + is me pretending to be someone hitting shift too early < 1444780444 344670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that bfjoust grammar is probably not context-free, due to nested ({})% < 1444780449 875697 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1444780462 234158 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Someone careless, like a for president poster) < 1444780479 86441 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do I want the program I'm making to do? < 1444780496 632289 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should include loops, as that's the only way I can really demonstrate how this program works < 1444780506 27995 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that seems perfectly context-free to me. < 1444780594 277542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: In (a(b{c{d}e}f)%1 g)%2 the innermost {} pairs with the outermost (). < 1444780603 891393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: nested like this ( ( { { } } ) % ) % < 1444780718 138800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when, i figured it's the intersection of two context-free languages, one that matches brackets normally and one that matches ( to { and } to ) < 1444780756 167609 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a simple program involving loops, but not too advanced for someone drawing its AS(T|G) on a laptop (so no 99 bottles of beer on the wall) < 1444780785 25326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth machine hth