00:00:32 right, tedious, but it can help 00:00:34 hm wait it makes more sense to think of them as edges 00:03:52 and when you have a 1 cornering an edge where the other cornering edge is missing, you can deduce that the opposing edges of the 1 are also missing 00:08:15 that one is trickier to describe than to use 00:13:39 right 00:13:50 that's one that also works in loopy 00:14:25 Is matrix multiplication defined for matrices generalized to an aribitrary number of dimensions? 00:14:30 it's more powerful in loopy, because you don't need to know the other cornering edge is missing, that also follows 00:14:44 hppavilion[1]: there are tensors and tensor products, don't know details 00:14:59 int-e: That's good. 00:15:14 or wait 00:15:20 scratch that 00:15:40 int-e: And are tensors like [n]D matrices? 00:15:57 not if you want to understand them, according to some people 00:16:26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor 00:16:59 but in loopy, you can also do it backwards, if the opposite edges of the 1 are missing, you can deduce that the other edge of the corner must be missing too. 00:17:37 that's not true in palisade, since a corner can have 3 edges. 00:18:11 I know. In palisade, if you have two neighboring 3s, there must be a line in the middle; in loopy, you get two more forced lines from the same pattern... 00:19:33 int-e: i also know that. i think that was the first trick i found in palisade. 00:19:57 i also found that quickly for loopy, except for the two forced lines which took me a long time. 00:20:28 oh and it also generates to all other loopy geometries. 00:20:57 for example if you have a triangle with a 2 bordering a square with a 3, as in some. 00:21:35 it's one of the most useful rules that work deep inside loopy, far from the borders 00:21:54 imo 00:22:28 *generalizes 00:22:31 yeah loopy has way more patterns of that sort, because you have full parity to work with instead of just one excluded number of neighbours (namely, 1). 00:22:37 hmm 00:22:46 number of neighbours -> degree 00:23:05 (since the former is too ambiguous) 00:23:28 anyway, sleep time 00:23:30 and it's fun in loopy when you can follow parity in a long path of unknown edges to deduce something at the other end 00:23:46 yeah :) 00:24:38 so i think loopy is still my overall favorite in the collection. 00:25:10 loopy, btw, also has a sort of choke point property: any enclosed area must have an even number of edges going in and out; this is sometimes useful in Nikoli's challenge (slitherlink) puzzles. 00:26:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:26:41 hppavilion[1]: i think for matrices, "dimension" usually refers to the number of rows and/or columns. for generalizing to more than two classes like "row" and "column" (i.e. tensors) the word is "rank". 00:27:09 http://nikoli.com/swf/sl.swf?loadUrl=/nfp/sl-1269.nfp&lang=1 ... hmm. 00:27:23 hppavilion[1]: oops, actually it's "order", afawps 00:28:55 I don't recall whether I used that parity property for that particular puzzle instance. 00:28:56 int-e: i've found that one two yes, it's the most global property i use (well, that + non-zero) 00:29:01 *one too 00:29:19 right, non-zero is the more obvious of the too :) 00:29:47 oerjan: Oh. 00:31:14 hppavilion[1]: hmph confusingly they use dimension for the arrays of numbers representing the tensor. 00:31:26 oerjan: Weirdos. 00:31:47 Oh, interest; Simon Tatham doesn't implement complete solvers for most of the puzzles... 00:32:02 ing 00:33:16 -!- LemonEnt has joined. 00:33:20 int-e: does that mean there's a limited difficulty level for them? 00:34:01 oh that link you gave requires flash and i've gotten to the habit of disabling it. -> 00:34:20 oerjan: as far as we possibly see? 00:34:48 shachaf: what? 00:34:53 oh 00:34:58 as far as wikipedia says 00:35:40 wp, huh? 00:35:51 oerjan: in principle, yes; but he writes (in the documentation) that for many puzzles, since a computer is better at finding places where the simple techniques apply, people will resort to advanced techniques regardless. 00:36:05 oh nikoli's page doesn't have a way to mark lines as known empty 00:36:16 heh 00:36:30 oerjan: yes it does; click twice or shift-click 00:37:38 and one thing you can do on nikoli but not in tatham's puzzles is that you can drag the mouse to draw several lines at once... so neither interface is perfect 00:37:49 aha 00:38:40 shift-click is worse for my hands :( 00:39:39 -!- LemonEnt has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:39:42 both of them are 00:40:32 with my touchpad, neither of them can be completed in a single movement with each hand 00:43:22 * oerjan tries to use the dragging to make up for it 00:43:35 moar zzom 00:43:51 (the moar wasn't a typo, but the zzom was) 00:44:33 the new apple touch pad is pretty fancy 00:44:53 aha? 00:45:14 it feels like it clicks but it actually doesn't 00:45:39 wait why did i do that 01:14:29 I think I'll let users write polynomials (or a similar type of algebraic expression) in Kastor using a certain bracket pair 01:14:35 Only question is what brackets to use 01:21:18 -!- ^v has joined. 01:21:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:40:00 income brackets hth 01:40:32 as in income tax? 01:41:00 those are often half-open intervals, i think 01:41:15 so you probably want [...) or [...[ 01:42:28 i expect when they're sane, they're at least continuous at the end points. 01:42:30 -!- boily has joined. 01:43:04 @google income brackets 01:43:05 http://www.efile.com/tax-service/tax-calculator/tax-brackets/ 01:43:06 Title: Federal Income Tax Brackets for 2015 and Other Tax Years 01:43:33 (they're not always sane, of course. astrid lindgren once toppled the swedish government by making public that her marginal tax was > 100%) 01:43:49 (at least that's how i like to interpret it.) 01:43:52 that says 10% for $1 - $9225 and 15% for $9226 to $37,450 01:44:09 so presumably that one dollar in the middle just isn't taxed 01:44:18 how kind 01:46:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:46:53 why is tax law in the us so complicated 01:47:09 i recently had the pleasure of reading parts of the internal revenue code. it was great. 01:47:28 but of course even reading the code isn't enough, you have to go by precedent and so on 01:47:32 too many special interests? 01:52:53 > prec IRS 01:52:55 Not in scope: ‘prec’ 01:52:55 Perhaps you meant one of these: 01:52:55 ‘pred’ (imported from Prelude), ‘pre’ (imported from Control.Lens)Not ... 01:53:09 > pred IRS 01:53:11 Not in scope: data constructor ‘IRS’ 01:53:23 > (0$0`IRS`) -- hth 01:53:25 Not in scope: data constructor ‘IRS’ 01:53:28 darn 01:53:44 well that would have shown the precedence. 01:59:19 Are there any cards besides Panglacial Wurm that may result in a player following instructions on multiple cards simultaneously? 01:59:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:00:13 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:05:06 helloily! 02:05:26 HAVE YOU HEARD THE PURPLE NEWS? 02:07:02 QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAA! 02:07:08 what have you aubergined? 02:16:08 THERE IS A PURPLE PAGE ON THE ESOWIKI. I AM SATISFIED :D 02:19:05 (incidentally, there's an UberGenes page too.) 02:19:59 (as there are funges and brainfuck derivatives, shouldn't there be auberginey languages? auberginals? eggplants?) 02:22:43 [wiki] [[Aubergine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45591&oldid=45563 * Boily * (+272) Add proglang template 02:22:59 lol woohoo 02:23:45 i'm going to make a challenge on PPCG to write a Purple interpreter. 02:24:07 Can you imagine how short a Pyth implementation would be? 02:25:21 I should flash a 'duino with an aubergine VM or something ^^ 02:26:35 (meanwhile, deep question on /r/showerthoughts: “Does a centaur suck milk from horse nipples or human ones?”) 02:34:01 * oerjan is starting to suspect int-e of having linked the same nikoli challenge puzzle that he did on a previous occasion 02:34:13 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:34:15 "By the time they are old enough to reach human nipples, they should be weaning off" 02:34:16 the final stage gives me a deja vu feeling 02:34:55 (incidentally, there's an UberGenes page too.) <-- dammit, i only just got that 02:35:30 i suppose not being too backlogged to visit the page would have helped 02:35:31 hellørjan! 02:35:34 hoily! 02:35:52 I did an esowikiedit! 02:36:37 aha! 02:36:45 lies 02:37:04 chelloppro. I ain't be lying. 02:37:20 WITNESS THE INFALLIBLE BACKLOG! 02:37:21 quintopia: i'd like to point out that human babies cannot reach human nipples either, without help 02:37:37 even as an adult, I can't reach my nipples. 02:37:52 boily: maybe you should get that looked at. 02:38:35 * boily likes the fact that he's alone in his apartment and nobody saw him try to lick his own nipple. 02:38:36 boily: i'm glad we agree the aubergine extension is .aub 02:38:49 what else. 02:40:34 <\oren\> 塔塗塚塞塡塾境墓増墜墨墳墾壁壇壊壌奇奈奉 02:40:34 <\oren\> 奏契奔奥妙妥妨妬孔存孝孤宰宴宵寸寿封尽寝 02:40:35 <\oren\> 尚峠斗斤斥爽 02:40:56 <\oren\> also ℵℶℷℸ 02:41:24 \オレンくんこんばんは\ 02:42:10 you managed to plug 墨 in your font? 02:42:38 <\oren\> 当たり前だ！ 02:42:45 \oren\: whoa whoa whoa 02:42:57 those are mathematical letters, aren't they 02:42:58 tdnh 02:43:25 <\oren\> I made them taller than the equivalent hebrew letters 02:44:10 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm <- they are green 02:44:12 they're ltr 02:44:15 bizarre imo 02:47:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PROPORTIONED CHICKEN). 02:56:06 tswett: In some cases there are mana steps (that includes in the process of casting a spell even if something else tells to cast it, or a payment for a triggered ability, or something else), so maybe there is other possibility too. (maybe) 02:56:34 Yeah, that's true. Lots of cards result in you being able to activate mana abilities. 02:58:14 Some mana abilities also have other effects, such as sacrificing permanents or damaging you (and replacement effects may apply to this damage) 03:08:31 -!- xk_id has joined. 03:10:48 oerjan: why am i playing this palisade game twh 03:10:54 -!- xk_id has left ("Leaving..."). 03:13:11 shachaf: perfectly crafted temptation hth 03:16:00 <\oren\> can I counter a spell by using an instant to destroy a land that my opponent needs in order to pay for it 03:16:47 Not if the land produces mana with a mana ability. 03:17:05 And it wouldn't be countering in any case. 03:25:40 Destroying a land does not counter its ability, and if it is a mana ability then it already resolves anyways. Also you can't cast instants during a mana step (there are no interrupts any more; in the old rules mana abilities were interrupts). Even so it can be tapped for mana in response to the destruction spell (if it is not already tapped) 03:26:23 What if there was an effect that said that mana is emptied from the mana pool each time something resolves? 03:26:55 \oren\: no, because you don't get priority until your opponent has already paid it. 03:28:23 shachaf: No, the trigger just would go on the stack, I think 03:28:46 shachaf: I think that would be a mandatory infinite loop, because it would trigger every time it resolves. 03:29:00 You could make it not be a triggered ability, I guess. 03:29:04 Yes, it would trigger itself too clearly 03:29:14 shachaf: Yes, such as a replacement effect I suppose? 03:29:40 I guess you could use an intervening if. "Whenever a spell or ability resolves, if any player has mana in his or her mana pool, ..." 03:30:53 Yes I suppose that can be another way 03:33:20 All right, what did I learn today? For the ability "Chameleon Colossus gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is its power", X is determined when the ability resolves and that number persists. 03:33:43 All the other game rule questions I got wrong were due to mistakes. 03:36:14 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:36:16 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:36:20 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 03:36:33 -!- haavardp has joined. 03:36:47 Which questions? 03:38:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:38:35 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:39:46 -!- perrier_ has joined. 03:40:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:43:01 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:43:30 -!- mbrcknl_ has joined. 03:44:47 -!- Hooloo42 has joined. 03:45:03 -!- mbrcknl has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:03 -!- J_Arcane has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:04 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:05 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:05 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:06 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:06 -!- haavard has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:06 -!- perrier has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:07 -!- Nithogg has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:23 -!- mtve has joined. 03:45:52 -!- Sprocklem has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:55 -!- mtve- has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:57 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:59 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 03:45:59 -!- scoofy has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:00 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:00 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:00 -!- rntz has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:01 -!- izabera has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:01 -!- gde33 has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:02 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:02 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:05 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:05 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:05 -!- singingb1yo has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:07 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:08 -!- zgrep has quit (*.net *.split). 03:46:16 -!- mbrcknl_ has changed nick to mbrcknl. 03:47:17 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:50:51 -!- Nithogg has joined. 03:51:10 -!- Melvar has joined. 03:51:35 -!- kline has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:52:55 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:53:21 oerjan: which size do you play 03:53:23 -!- haavardp has changed nick to haavard. 03:53:25 -!- trn has joined. 03:53:48 [wiki] [[User:Esowiki201529A/test link]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45592 * 103.3.98.227 * (+9432) Created page with " [[网站首页]] [[关于我们]] [[新闻中心]] [[产品展示]] [[在线留言]] [[联系我们]] 栏目分类 ..." 03:55:44 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:55:44 -!- erdic has joined. 03:55:44 -!- scoofy has joined. 03:55:44 -!- int-e has joined. 03:55:44 -!- yorick has joined. 03:55:44 -!- rntz has joined. 03:55:44 -!- izabera has joined. 03:55:44 -!- gde33 has joined. 03:55:44 -!- jix has joined. 03:55:44 -!- olsner has joined. 03:55:50 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:55:50 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:55:50 -!- singingb1yo has joined. 03:55:50 -!- myndzi has joined. 03:55:50 -!- zgrep has joined. 03:56:12 pizzicato 03:58:09 shachaf: 15 x 12, size 8 03:58:22 whoa whoa whoa 03:58:24 you can do that? 03:58:34 [wiki] [[User:Esowiki201529A/test link]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45593&oldid=45592 * 103.3.98.227 * (+619) 03:59:48 of course, it's in the type menu (for the standalone version, anyway, but i recall the online games have similar selections 04:00:06 there's also a Custom option 04:00:17 the online game has 15x12, size 10 04:00:22 oops 04:00:25 and 10x8, size 8 04:00:26 darn i meant 10 04:00:33 ah 04:00:48 > 15 * 12 `mod` 8 04:00:51 4 04:00:54 PROBABLY NOT 04:01:37 hm a version where you have two different region sizes... 04:01:43 -!- kline has joined. 04:04:01 <\oren\> maybe instead of fucking about with fread fseek ftell and fwrite I should use mmap 04:04:44 <\oren\> iirc theres a speed increase with mmap anyway 04:04:54 shachaf: int-e was doing 18 x 16, size 12 04:05:08 oh and 10 x 10, size 50 04:05:22 * oerjan only now realized what was weird about that one 04:05:52 is the weird thing that you have two regions or something else 04:05:57 yeah 04:06:13 tdnh 04:06:26 * oerjan should try that and see how it works 04:06:28 to be fair, that wasn't a very good question 04:06:53 but first i must finish this one... 04:07:53 just 3 regions left but they're a bit evil 04:08:09 unless i'm missing something obvious as usual 04:08:22 how much backtracking do you need for this game 04:08:30 backtracking is scow 04:08:36 i never backtrack unless i make an error 04:08:42 well, not so far, anyway 04:09:34 in other words i haven't needed it yet 04:10:25 oh of course, i missed that those big open spaces were bordering 04:11:30 oh there were actually 4 regions left, i misestimated 04:12:04 finished 04:12:44 now to the 2 region one. lots of 0s... 04:15:28 -!- mauris has joined. 04:17:11 well that was pretty easy 04:29:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:30:57 Perhaps ⁅⁆ would be good for mathematical expressions? 04:41:53 I'm defining 𝔹 as the set of booleans 04:47:49 Hm... 04:50:20 I kind of need a set (well, class) marker to denote the surreals... 05:00:18 I'll use 𝕀 for the pure imaginaries 05:05:08 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:09:40 So I'm adding an abstract builtin type "DIM" to Kastor that expresses a space, for example, the dimensions of a matrix 05:12:44 -!- Hooloo42 has changed nick to Hoolootwo. 05:28:16 -!- ^v has joined. 05:30:01 So I've defined the operator ×, which accepts two integers (or another DIM and an integer, or two DIMs) and produces a DIM of the size m×n. You can, for example, raise an abstract set to the power of a DIM to get the matrix type 05:30:40 It's weird and complicated 05:37:48 Hm... Generalizing modular arithmetic to ℂ (or more likely, the Gaussian integers) could be interesting 05:44:02 ‽ operator. Wonder what I should make it do. 05:46:09 ⁘ ⁙ ⁚ ⁛ ⁝ ⁞ ⸪ ⸫ ⸬ ⸭ operators as well, I suppose 05:51:22 Perhaps I should make ™ a postfix operator xD 05:56:38 \oren\: Since no one's answering, I'm dragging you into this. 05:58:39 I just thought of something weird the syntax of Kastor allows you to do. \ followed by a name is the "anonymize" operator (though it's not so much an operator as a syntactic element, unless I change my mind); it takes a name and converts it to an anonymous name. Consider the expression "x = \x". That's valid Kastor. 06:01:06 [wiki] [[TM operator]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45594 * Hppavilion1 * (+252) Created Page 06:02:07 How about you, oerjan? 06:03:01 (I just found neoletters is 1000000% easier to read if set to size 12, but a bit big) 06:03:10 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:03:30 No? 06:03:46 quintopia? 06:04:44 (Perhaps the TM operator should just delete the variable it is applied to and return its value) 06:20:12 I invented the "traitor scheming" variant of the Magic: the Gathering archenemy game. 06:20:15 -!- Aearnus has joined. 06:24:46 Another kind of game could be draft that includes planes 06:26:22 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: it is meant for size 12 = 16 pixels 06:26:55 Ah, OK 06:26:58 That makes sense. 06:27:06 <\oren\> if you use a size that isn't a multiple of 16 pixels it won't look good at all 06:27:26 \oren\: That makes sense now. 06:30:05 <\oren\> The annoying thing is on mac sixe 16 is the same size as 12 is on windows and linux 06:31:44 <\oren\> so for mac, 1px = 1pt while on windows 1px = 0.75pt 06:32:57 oerjan: i played a 10x10/50 game and it was perfectly divided with a straight line in the middle 06:33:00 is that unusual? 06:38:07 <\oren\> yeah my font looks horrible at 8 pt 06:38:26 shachaf: i don't know, i've only played the one 06:40:00 <\oren\> size 6 is hard to read, but better than 8 06:41:27 <\oren\> size 9 is... meh 06:41:40 <\oren\> I should put this info on my page 06:45:37 <\oren\> there 06:46:29 TIL that the phrase "best mathematical properties" is used on Wiki's page on numbers 06:46:57 Universal properties are the best. 06:48:35 -!- andrew has joined. 07:14:36 -!- ^v has joined. 07:47:49 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:48:42 -!- ^v has joined. 08:06:03 -!- Aearnus has quit (Quit: Page closed). 08:13:50 Ugh, I'm trying to include blackboard bold digits in Arithmetic of the Functia, but it looks like TeX doesn't allow that because Donald Knuth and the AMS are both assholes 08:14:24 Nor does just including the builtin symbols work 08:18:35 -!- andrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:25:57 Then make your own font with METAFONT. 08:26:03 zzo38: Nuuuuuuuuuu 08:26:19 I just give up and I'm going to recommend people not use blackboard bold xD 08:26:26 You can look at the existing ones to see how it work and then make the font based on that one. 08:26:30 It was a nice idea, but it would only really serve to confuse in the end 08:27:04 zzo38: For the Arithmetic of the Functia, I figured that we can treat numbers as functions 08:27:29 Specifically, a number n can be treated as a function with one argument x that is defined as n*x 08:27:40 Which makes sense given the syntax 5(x) and the like 08:27:56 TeX allows you to use any font you want to as long as metrics in TFM format are available. (Clearly you will need glyphs as well, although TeX doesn't care about glyphs.) 08:33:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:35:05 zzo38: Great. Now that I've defined that numbers our functions, along with dealing with allowing functions to be raised to the power of a number ( f**2(x)=f(f(x)) ), I think I need to define f**g and similar things xD 08:35:29 s/our/are/ 08:35:34 Have any ideas? 08:38:52 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:39:45 [wiki] [[Purple]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45595&oldid=45585 * Quintopia * (-10) /* Python 2 */ Oops how did that bug slip by. 09:18:00 -!- Welo has joined. 09:53:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:58:18 -!- rdococ has joined. 11:11:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:19:16 -!- J_Arcane_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:27:37 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:28:20 -!- vjoba has joined. 11:34:38 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:36:15 -!- vjoba has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Pohodlné vykecávání. Odkudkoliv."). 11:55:41 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 11:55:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:25:55 http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/gnu/tcl-not stallman on tcl 12:53:08 -!- heroux has joined. 14:29:23 -!- Lord_of_- has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 14:29:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 14:29:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 14:29:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 14:29:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 15:19:51 <\oren\> good mroing 15:29:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:47:18 Hi 15:47:39 no taneb 15:47:46 Aww 15:49:45 @tell hppavilion[1] The idea behind Church numerals is that if C_n is the numeral for n, then C_n(f) is f**n. If you wanted to do this particular generalization, f**g would simply be g(f). 15:49:45 Consider it noted. 15:57:24 Taneb: no no, "no" means "hi", so Phantom_Hoover was greeting you. 16:00:25 noswett 16:00:46 Tanob 16:05:57 <\oren\> hellambdabot! 16:07:03 <\oren\> > (5^3) 16:07:05 125 16:07:10 <\oren\> boo 16:07:18 <\oren\> > (5 xor 3) 16:07:19 Could not deduce (Num a1) 16:07:19 from the context (Num a2, Num ((a -> a -> a) -> a2 -> t), Bits a) 16:07:19 bound by the inferred type for ‘e_153’: 16:07:55 <\oren\> :t xor 16:07:56 Bits a => a -> a -> a 16:09:03 > 5 `xor` 3 16:09:05 6 16:09:27 <\oren\> oh, that magic syntac 16:09:56 how's that magic? 16:10:28 <\oren\> well, it determines that some operators are operators just because they are, while others must be surrounded by `` 16:10:48 <\oren\> (5 `^` 3) 16:11:01 <\oren\> > (5 `^` 3) 16:11:03 :1:5: parse error on input ‘^’ 16:11:15 <\oren\> oh fuck you haskell 16:11:33 everything starting with a letter is a function 16:11:39 easy as that 16:12:09 <\oren\> what about arguments? 16:12:45 <\oren\> > (^ 3 5) 16:12:47 Could not deduce (Integral b0) arising from a use of ‘^’ 16:12:47 from the context (Num a) 16:12:47 bound by the inferred type of it :: Num a => a -> a 16:13:04 <\oren\> > (`^` 3 5) 16:13:06 :1:3: parse error on input ‘^’ 16:13:40 ^ does not start with a letter, therefore ^ is an operator and needs infix notation 16:14:04 (operator) is a function and `function` is an operator 16:14:34 <\oren\> (5 `(^)` 3) 16:14:47 <\oren\> > (5 `(^)` 3) 16:14:49 :1:5: parse error on input ‘(’ 16:14:50 Give me some $$, and I can make these parentheses... disappear! 16:15:46 <\oren\> > ((`xor`) 5 3) 16:15:48 :1:8: parse error on input ‘)’ 16:15:53 Stuff made of letters is a function, stuff made of symbols is an operator. 16:16:19 You can use `` on stuff made of letters and () on stuff made of symbols, but you can't combine the two... I guess. 16:20:32 Stuff I learned. Copiable values are generally the values printed on the card; additional effects don't matter. If two identical replacement effects are trying to modify what happens to an object, the object's controller chooses which one wins. Also some complicated damage replacement thing. 16:21:54 <\oren\> so are you learning this by going over the rules, or by poring over official tournament game transcripts or what? 16:22:12 By taking practice rules exams and looking at the ones I got wrong. 16:22:30 Shock says: "If a source would deal damage to a creature or player, it deals double that damage to that creature or player instead." That's a replacement effect. There's also a replacement effect allowing the controller to redirect damage from a player to a planeswalker. 16:22:47 The affected player chooses which replacement effect is applied first, in this case. 16:23:50 oh, M:tG talk? 16:24:41 -!- Welo has joined. 16:25:43 Yup. 16:25:54 Funny thing about that neural net I've been training on #esoteric logs... 16:26:26 It has learned that we frequently say "Magic: the [capitalized word]". It hasn't learned that that word is always "Gathering". 16:26:34 \oren\: functions are prefix by default, operators infix by default. `·` turns a function into infix, (·) turns an operator into prefix. that's all there is to it, really (where 'function' means identifier consisting of letters & digits, 'operator' means identifier consisting of symbols) 16:27:03 So the neural net keeps producing stuff like "Magic: the Computer" and "Magic: the Imagination" and whatnot. 16:28:18 > [xor 5 3, 5 `xor` 3, (^) 5 3, 5 ^ 3] 16:28:20 [6,6,125,125] 16:28:35 * FireFly thinks it's rather neat 16:31:15 how comes there is so few hearthstone talk here 16:31:40 Good question. 16:31:44 So, about Hearthstone. 16:31:49 What are those solo adventures like, anyway? 16:32:04 I wonder why they don't offer any kind of free trial for those. 16:32:33 i don't think so, but there's a shitload of youtube videos 16:32:49 younwant to purchase them sooner or later anyways 16:32:54 Oh right. 16:33:19 people are trying reno cobtrol shamans 16:33:31 i am pretry curious on how that will turn out 16:33:49 Reno? 16:34:42 reno jackson is a new card. "if you don't have any card twice left in your deck, fully heal your hero" 16:36:39 Now there's a card you probably wouldn't see in MTG. 16:36:49 -!- hjulle has joined. 16:37:11 What happens if you run out of cards in your deck? 16:37:48 on the first attempt to draw you lose one life 16:37:57 on the second, you lose second life 16:38:06 repeat until death occurs 16:38:49 so it is actually a viable strategy to make your opponent draw as much as possible 16:38:54 the second time you lose 2, to clarify 16:39:03 er, yeah 16:39:04 so the rate at which you lose life accelerates 16:39:29 said strategy is known as milling 16:39:55 I fought a rogue mill deck once, it was awful :( 16:40:13 mill druids are way nastier 16:40:35 Probably. I only played hearthstone for a bit, got tired of it 16:40:36 druids zave a card that says "destroy an enemy minion. your opponent draws a card" 16:41:09 i addition to those nasty murlocs that make you draw two cards 16:41:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:42:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:46:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:48:49 i like that game a lot. the rules are simple, yet the game is challenging 16:49:02 and there's an android app 16:53:54 wait, when did they errata Daru Stinger back to not a human? 16:54:17 let me check yawgatog 16:54:32 it became a human at Lorwyn, as I expected 16:54:59 b_jonas: FRF 16:55:11 it was reverted because of the interaction with amplify 16:55:16 damn 16:55:23 thanks 16:55:30 you were fast to bisect 16:55:36 and yes, it's at FRF 16:55:40 I just googled "daru stinger update bulletin" 16:55:54 now my Daru Stingers are worthless 16:56:01 I can no longer use them with clerics 16:56:19 not quite worthless, mind you, because I have made decks with practically nothing but soliders 16:56:23 but almost worthless 16:56:37 There's no trading in Hearthstone, right? 16:57:48 I must have missed that update somehow. I usually try to read the update bulletins. 17:03:16 tswett: indeed 17:03:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:04:11 I think they say it's to avoid unfair trades as well as creating an in-game economy, but I think it's just to encourage people to buy packs for real money 17:04:47 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:18:22 wait what… why is Benevolent Unicorn's ability phrased like that? Does it get around Everlasting Torment? 17:32:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:43:36 Right, when I browse my collection I understand why I like to play white so much. I have a ton of good white cards. 17:44:20 I should buy good black and blue cards so I can build better decks of those too. 17:44:41 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!). 17:47:12 Yeah, with "Enchant Creature" and "Enchantment Creature" both appearing on the type line, it's not so easy to quickly separate creature cards from non-creature cards anymore. I have to be careful. 17:47:24 Luckily I have almost no Enchantment Creatures … yet 17:50:18 b_jonas: imagine how confusing it would be if enchant meant creature 17:56:18 shachaf: no, but "Summon" and "Summon Creature" mean creature 17:56:27 You could also try to play multicolors 17:56:43 zzo38: oh, I do 17:57:15 works well for some decks 17:58:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 18:05:34 <\oren\> what if a cords type was Creature - Enchanter 18:10:16 \oren\: M:tG has no Sorcerers 18:10:34 ok wait, it does have sorcerers, by name 18:11:09 but they have type Wizard or some other creature type 18:11:27 also, there are enchanters and enchantresses by name 18:12:36 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!). 18:14:10 there are no landers though 18:14:54 and no instanters under that name, although Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is one 18:19:34 My opinion of improving rules of Magic: the Gathering, much is to make it more mathematically elegant. But I have a few others too 18:20:30 They don't have Enchant Creature on the type line any more, do they? 18:23:30 -!- Alcest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:24:35 That is correct it doesn't. 18:24:54 There is no "enchant" type; "enchant" is a keyword ability. 18:29:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 18:29:38 tswett: they don't, but we don't have the guys from 1984 who replace the printed cards 18:34:52 Make deck of all five colours 18:35:32 I don't have such a deck, but I do have a four-colored deck. I was thinking of modifying it to three colors though, but I'm not sure that's what I'll do. 18:35:38 It's a Spirit-Arcane deck 18:36:50 Have you made up your own cards? 18:37:03 Have you made up cube for cube draft? 18:41:17 \oren\: http://cosmic.mearie.org/tmp/font-sample I'm trying something like this 18:41:58 I had my own bitmap font for a long time (not in general use but for occasional uses), but probably it is the first time I'm seriously trying to extend that 18:44:44 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:45:19 zzo38: no cube, and only very few own cards 18:45:48 lifthrasiir: great, another bitmap font maker on esoteric 18:46:50 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: whoa, awesome! 18:49:00 <\oren\> so are those images? 18:49:33 <\oren\> holy crap, they're inline SVG's! 18:49:34 SVG, huh. Nice, except for the lack of hinting. 18:50:18 (...except that bitmap fonts aren't hinted) 18:51:00 just for the initial testing (I really don't know how to make a TTF/OTF font :) 18:51:11 <\oren\> Try FontForge 18:51:14 Bitmap fonts don't need hinted. However if something else is compiled into a bitmap font then hints should be used. (It is possible to do this with METAFONT) 18:51:31 b_jonas: I never made the cube either, but I made many cards; what card you make up? 18:53:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:54:22 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:58:28 zzo38: I made an enchantment that gives reverse protection, that is, everything else gets protection from the enchanted permanent. I don't remember the details, but it must cost {1U}. 18:58:55 Yes, blue doesn't normally get protection cards. 19:02:10 Even recently I made up some more cards. One such card is: You can take two cards from your sideboard, opponent forces you to ante one of them, the other one is placed on top of your library. 19:03:08 Another card is: Look in opponent's sideboard for a nonbasic card, if you find one then exile top two cards of opponent's library and put the found card on top of their library. 19:04:05 It might be good in Limited, because they may have a few cards of the wrong color in their sideboard. 19:07:38 zzo38: that's even better in a Conspiracy draft if you find a Conspiracy in the sideboard, although those are unlikely to occur in the sideboard 19:08:12 Actually my card does specifically say "traditional nonbasic nonconspiracy card", so you can't choose one of those. 19:08:47 (I did think of that!) 19:15:13 -!- mauris_ has joined. 19:18:24 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:22:48 Have you designed any good creatures for {B}? I suffer from a lack of good creatures costing {B}. I should buy some. 19:23:54 I have cards costing {B} but no creatures. 19:24:11 sure, there are lots of good instants and sorceries for {B} 19:24:13 If you can suggest something I will add it though. 19:24:35 Deathmark, Disfigure, etc 19:25:01 I can't design a good creature for {B} because I have to see examples for that first, and there's too few 19:26:45 hmm, there's a dark twin of Child of Thorns called Fume Spitter. I need that. I have an irrational liking of Child of Thorns, despite that it's not a really good creature. 19:26:56 Name, subtype, power/toughness, and special abilities must be chosen. (You can optionally provide notes and/or flavor text which I will also add to my file.) Probably it could be 1/1 and have one special ability but what kind? I don't know! 19:27:38 Possibly with regeneration (at what cost?) 19:28:03 I think I need Diregraf Ghoul too 19:28:21 and probably that vampire 19:28:40 Guul Draz Vampire 19:30:07 let's see. Plague Beetle and Prickly Boggart can't hurt too. 19:30:56 Even if I did design such card, you can't buy it; you would have to proxy it, and you need to agree to opponent what cards and other deck construction rules are legal; if you are making both decks by yourself this is less important but you should still show both decks to opponent to see how the game is being played, and switch deck afterward. And if you want to use proxies it is recommend to use card sleeves too. 19:31:05 sure 19:32:20 (My own policy would be that if you wish to proxy you must write the full Oracle text of the card you wish to proxy; simply writing the name of the card isn't sufficient.) 19:32:35 oh right, Smolder Initiate is a good one, I should buy that 19:32:45 I have the light twin 19:33:01 but the dark one is better of course 19:33:46 Tormented Soul... nice, I need that 19:34:28 let me list the uncommons 19:35:53 Gnarled Scarhide seems reasonable 19:36:31 Mardu Shadowspear is nice too 19:39:52 yes, they don't print many nice creatures for {B}. no wonder I have so few. 19:46:56 Therefore make up such a card. 19:50:41 Maybe this way: 1/1 ;; {B}, Discard a card: Regenerate ~. Is that OK or something should be made difference? 19:57:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:05:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:06:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 20:06:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 20:06:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 20:06:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 20:06:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 20:19:44 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!). 20:37:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 20:45:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:52:32 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:15:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 21:15:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:15:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 21:15:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:15:24 -!- lleu has joined. 21:18:55 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 21:20:01 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 21:24:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:24:03