`l`

and `\n`

. * `l`

increments the accumulator by one * ```
\n<..."
< 1448260094 535216 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07L14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45600&oldid=45599 5* 03Phase 5* (+207) 10
< 1448262881 129700 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448262959 420398 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero
< 1448264536 679159 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`danddreclist 71
< 1448264537 486732 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :danddreclist 71: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
< 1448265208 494537 :J_A_Work!~J_Arcane@37-219-95-164.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448265223 995511 :J_A_Work!~J_Arcane@37-219-95-164.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Client Quit
< 1448265445 617376 :por!~user@c-73-161-75-216.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448265453 48809 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Purple14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45601&oldid=45597 5* 03Quintopia 5* (-3) 10/* Python 2 */ Moregolfy!
< 1448265491 288067 :por!~user@c-73-161-75-216.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wisdom.pdf created with latex?
< 1448265528 128319 :por!~user@c-73-161-75-216.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops spoke too soon! i just read that is was.
< 1448265930 578188 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-179-104.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1448265952 612393 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so.
< 1448266085 202892 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, level20.dvi was created with Plain TeX.
< 1448266116 186704 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448266119 964221 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY UPPERCASE Plain
< 1448266213 262934 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjxadvtdxyoixxsy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1448266218 222703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I think often (not always) is written like that
< 1448266755 617402 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-nyuvoihsssvgypzf QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1448267096 797942 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1448267296 298026 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-228-111.reshall.wwu.edu QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1448267334 110315 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-vmhkwopkpvennbjt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448267353 161780 :por!~user@c-73-161-75-216.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: level20.dvi?
< 1448267437 537492 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448267497 816915 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448268099 28043 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just updated it a few minutes ago even. It is http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.dvi and the source-codes also available, with level20.tex in same directory. There is the notice of updating on this IRC
< 1448268143 611748 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that as well as the macro package to go with it (which I also wrote, and is also available in the same directory). They are all public domain.
< 1448268207 468893 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you look at all of the logs, you can see a lot of stuff being discussing in this IRC.
< 1448268838 350345 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you use TeX for anything?
< 1448269885 604828 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-179-104.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448270183 705469 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-179-104.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1448270350 535950 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1448270664 147487 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Platts14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45602&oldid=37783 5* 03Quintopia 5* (-4) 10/* Examples */ bugfix
< 1448270674 668603 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448270861 107171 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Platts14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45603&oldid=45602 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ bugfix
< 1448270916 144927 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Platts14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45604&oldid=45603 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+4) 10Undo revision 45602 by [[Special:Contributions/Quintopia|Quintopia]] ([[User talk:Quintopia|talk]])
< 1448270939 494561 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Platts14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45605&oldid=45604 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+0) 10Undo revision 45603 by [[Special:Contributions/Quintopia|Quintopia]] ([[User talk:Quintopia|talk]])
< 1448271268 849591 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Platts14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45606&oldid=45605 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+2252) 10implementation
< 1448271409 473157 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Platts14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45607&oldid=45606 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+58) 10/* Syntax */ Expanded allowed symbols to match implementation
< 1448272818 670569 :por!~user@c-73-161-75-216.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1448274618 944410 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1448274619 86954 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`
```", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1448274781 45024 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does "Consume Spirit" say "Spend only black mana on X." rather than "Spend only black mana on {X}."? In both the oracle text and the M12 printed text.
< 1448274862 128941 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the M12 version has new flavor text, from Sorin, compared to the 10E version I have.
< 1448274938 411199 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`undo 6237
< 1448274941 800092 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :patching file 'wisdom/hppavilion[1]'
< 1448274970 685370 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :general principle: if you change a wisdom without checking if there is one there first, i may revert it hth
< 1448274984 480332 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i may still do it if you do, but less likely.)
< 1448275029 275410 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hppavilion[1]
< 1448275030 548329 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe.
< 1448275056 14683 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/^/zzo38cards are at /' wisdom/zzo38cards
< 1448275058 431584 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1448275063 428855 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38card
< 1448275064 648595 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38card? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448275080 834122 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` mv wisdom/zzo38card{s,}
< 1448275083 579026 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1448275110 242014 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if your wisdom is not a complete sentence i may edit it.
< 1448275145 812600 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38card
< 1448275147 30096 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38cards are at http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
< 1448275159 911538 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom
< 1448275161 378115 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentlebeing/A gentlebeing is a gender and species neutral gentleman.
< 1448275196 278937 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/vi
< 1448275198 694901 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1448275235 863688 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like small, domain-specific languages like lifthrasiir's text-based font description language up there
< 1448275256 275916 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/'imperative language'
< 1448275258 492154 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1448275261 306015 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1448275320 517170 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/e/E/' wisdom/erudecorp
< 1448275322 826220 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1448275383 483282 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '' >>wisdom/'imperative language'
< 1448275386 2130 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1448275412 621818 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom
< 1448275413 983909 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :precious/precious? That doesn't ring a bell. ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448275439 623377 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? 404
< 1448275440 441010 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :404? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448275447 812729 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? 1337
< 1448275448 839523 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448275455 970471 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? 65535
< 1448275456 843454 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :65535? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448275519 964611 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!leet hm was this it
< 1448275547 231429 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/l*t
< 1448275548 132728 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/list \ bin/llist
< 1448275556 792808 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls interp/l*t
< 1448275557 669750 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access interp/l*t: No such file or directory
< 1448275561 326593 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls interps/l*t
< 1448275562 339414 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access interps/l*t: No such file or directory
< 1448275565 991823 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1448275611 77854 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@leet hm was this it
< 1448275611 223254 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :H/\/\ \/\/As +|-|iz0rz I+
< 1448275611 768186 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn 1337 15 50 905
< 1448275614 376252 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned '1337': 1337 15 50 905
< 1448275651 930887 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ah
< 1448275678 787683 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some nonexistent command that occasionally gets corrected into @leet, but I forget what it was
< 1448275701 621488 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that always gets corrected, but that people occasionally attempt
< 1448275716 284763 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how do you think I should refactor this code
< 1448275716 464902 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hey pitecus and jivera: orbit and twobit are perfect for that.
< 1448275732 512577 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: a jivera? is that like a zubera?
< 1448275732 654976 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: run the scheme system copies the expression for later
< 1448275738 67377 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you should refactor your code into urbit
< 1448275742 766051 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that might work. thanks, fungot.
< 1448275743 123914 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: modulo 9, 9 is a free smalltalk. unfortunately, the worst amiga game i've seen it already, though; we've got both a profiler and a fnord fnord fnord x 2 y
< 1448275765 461068 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? 9
< 1448275766 206869 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :9? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448275772 492928 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn 9 is a free smalltalk
< 1448275784 204501 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned '9': 9 is a free smalltalk
< 1448275847 907965 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/9
< 1448275849 841601 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1448275899 973305 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@seen FireFly
< 1448275900 115774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIrEf|Y
< 1448275903 220448 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one.
< 1448275904 426006 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1448275907 427795 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that aws the one
< 1448275927 883880 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it briefly existed again some months ago
< 1448275934 690012 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but int-e disabled it again.
< 1448275938 887443 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1448276019 913003 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems I missed more than one M:tG rules update bulletins. I'll have to go back to reread them carefully.
< 1448276092 523774 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: I'm not a fan of 6-dot braille not being consistent with 8-dot braille.. in part because I like to abuse braille as pixels, but also because I imagine it'd be bad for actual braille lettering
< 1448276148 488800 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/hppavilion[1]
< 1448276149 608368 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/hppavilion1
< 1448276192 409386 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/hpp*
< 1448276193 649447 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/hppavilion1 \ wisdom/hppavilion[1]
< 1448276216 61985 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hppavilion(1)
< 1448276217 19755 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion(1)? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276228 784548 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rfw hhppavilion(1)
< 1448276229 494397 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rfw: not found
< 1448276393 676034 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hppavilion1
< 1448276394 881774 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed
< 1448276403 584581 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, he has two
< 1448276410 698623 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is better
< 1448276490 822208 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering why boily's edit did nothing.
< 1448276575 600523 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hppavilion
< 1448276576 442314 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276593 466060 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan
< 1448276594 746551 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience.
< 1448276600 514860 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ørjan
< 1448276601 592688 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers.
< 1448276645 55612 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's twice the amount of wisdom I have
< 1448276657 728617 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY
< 1448276658 552864 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zaphod
< 1448276659 632087 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zaphod? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276661 259043 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? beeblebrox
< 1448276662 493356 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beeblebrox? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276666 99966 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't even fun wisdom :(
< 1448276670 401448 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zidane
< 1448276671 508009 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zidane? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276673 277552 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? FireFly
< 1448276674 442103 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
< 1448276680 658633 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Effilry
< 1448276681 708587 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effilry? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276698 697331 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Örjan
< 1448276698 920383 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, someone remembered my altnick
< 1448276699 692652 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Örjan? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276883 291239 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Effilry is eemnoos how ahs got it all deorst otu.
< 1448276886 101731 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'effilry': Effilry is eemnoos how ahs got it all deorst otu.
< 1448276922 748912 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1448276934 585751 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mtg
< 1448276935 628650 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtg? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276937 929891 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? m:tg
< 1448276938 926376 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m:tg? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276947 724116 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/ma*
< 1448276948 838660 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/macabre \ wisdom/madness \ wisdom/magic \ wisdom/mapole \ wisdom/marmite \ wisdom/mathematimu \ wisdom/maths \ wisdom/mauke \ wisdom/mauris \ wisdom/maybe
< 1448276953 515202 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? magic
< 1448276954 614548 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The magic was in you all along.
< 1448276968 909097 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gathering
< 1448276969 838772 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gathering? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276972 513702 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve of this wisdom
< 1448276974 988314 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? the
< 1448276976 183580 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
< 1448276981 324853 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? unicorn
< 1448276982 200270 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicorn? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276983 980966 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? unicorns
< 1448276985 83739 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicorns? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276985 940855 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tea
< 1448276986 960860 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tea? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276988 813219 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bear
< 1448276989 998562 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448276994 449164 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rainbow
< 1448276995 428663 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainbow? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448277001 530697 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sun
< 1448277002 694810 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sun? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448277006 471054 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? daystar
< 1448277007 694166 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :daystar? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448277008 448487 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mauke
< 1448277009 607893 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauke is a Master Archer. Caution! He can shoot your PRIVMSG with creative arrows!
< 1448277074 15818 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mathematimu
< 1448277075 117045 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change.
< 1448277078 253248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The Daystar is an unscientific myth of a bright orb glowing in the sky outside only at the times you're in your office.
< 1448277081 518104 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'daystar': The Daystar is an unscientific myth of a bright orb glowing in the sky outside only at the times you're in your office.
< 1448277146 549962 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar.
< 1448277149 476916 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'rainbow': Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar.
< 1448277159 149015 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ipu
< 1448277160 186860 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipu? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448277167 116742 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sun
< 1448277167 347763 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hna
< 1448277168 178701 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sun? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448277168 431974 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hna? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448277169 322091 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? madness
< 1448277170 407921 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madness lies thataway.
< 1448277205 893132 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: right, for that we need a bot that can list entries from the comprehensive rules and oracle
< 1448277273 824335 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? russell's teapot
< 1448277274 814182 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :russell's teapot? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1448277295 166579 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn IPU is an invisible pink unicorn.
< 1448277297 880264 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'ipu': IPU is an invisible pink unicorn.
< 1448277332 23458 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448277476 541466 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn russell's teapot/Russell's Teapot / Short and stout / Orbits near Mars / Or thereabout.
< 1448277478 596919 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «russell's teapot»
< 1448277567 326003 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you see us/Let us know/If you don't/What does that show?
< 1448277585 847377 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh good one
< 1448277623 718684 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPU is an incredibly pompous unicorn
< 1448277633 990280 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn russell's teapot/Russell's Teapot / Short and stout / Orbits near Mars / Or thereabout. / If you see it / Let us know / If you don't / What does that show?
< 1448277636 988423 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «russell's teapot»
< 1448277675 104975 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: wait is that a pre-existing rhyme
< 1448277681 707662 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1448277692 405102 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made it up
< 1448277697 712601 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent
< 1448277727 647740 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah I can't remember the second verse to I'm a little teapot
< 1448277824 529074 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has the lyrics scream and shout
< 1448277843 454036 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom
< 1448277844 958581 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :danddreclist/http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex (the precompiled .dvi is also available)
< 1448278085 553294 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do these tex commands do? does it keep track of stuff and rules or the like?
< 1448278187 462330 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: they track the character sheets for example
< 1448278276 55959 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can do \charactersheet{Also} and it will give you a sheet?
< 1448278463 343929 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: are you sure not confusing it with "When in danger / or in doubt / run in circles / scream and shout"
< 1448278467 741561 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, the winners of the 24th ioccc were announced in october, but I somehow missed that
< 1448278470 804666 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+you're
< 1448278529 678986 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448278541 899764 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bohily
< 1448279480 16673 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@193.86.27.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1448279518 408709 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endoh managed to win with three programs, not bad
< 1448279525 943736 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, four
< 1448279880 510273 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@91.219.247.213 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448279890 912477 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1448279900 853656 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan.
< 1448280170 839439 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-084-062-104-105.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448281478 33616 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0x18
< 1448281479 773294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 24
< 1448281506 748916 :Froox!~Frooxius@193.86.27.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448281574 172206 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: four, yes
< 1448281730 159787 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ImageMagick's plans for the future version 7 are quite ambitious. basically they want the program to do everything.
< 1448281734 526425 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@91.219.247.213 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1448281829 658450 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they want to do operations in such generality over any color space as gimp 3.
< 1448281999 175274 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: SIMPLEX CHICKEN
< 1448282501 166091 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds nice
< 1448282519 427679 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's a pity the work has to be duplicated
< 1448282552 249324 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it would be better if there could be a command-line frontend akin to imagemagick's for GIMP operations
< 1448282639 855534 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i think mr. ishiguro did a _big_ mistake over in freefall
< 1448282668 206090 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: um, there's the python interface, the perl interface, the guile interface, for gimp. you can use those from command-line as perl one-liners.
< 1448282691 542445 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you a vampire?
< 1448282691 795265 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's actually why i tend to have a large fnord file, but not any haiku that i can
< 1448282701 942008 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNEW IT!
< 1448282800 890218 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah
< 1448282844 114647 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you the immortal kind of vampire who when killed just turns gaseous and flees back to his coffin to heal unless killed by a silver bullet, a stake through your heart, bright light, garlic, holy water, chainsaw, fire, a rooster, with holy wafers in your mouth sewn closed, or in your bat form?
< 1448282887 368361 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious too. Well, fungot, are you?
< 1448282887 510860 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: and my fnord account :) built a binary search tree
< 1448282905 649957 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to interpret that
< 1448282915 611468 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH! i was right!
< 1448282947 376294 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(othar)
< 1448283472 573894 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1448283478 771244 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Othar
< 1448283513 850957 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, updated already?
< 1448283546 492973 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: let's build a binary decision diagram instead
< 1448283546 724387 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: can i have your new browser anmaster i call it event-based declarative language for making bot ai's for a game, and how
< 1448283558 911392 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's been updating early for weeks
< 1448283559 53846 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominous
< 1448283586 565517 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: a fair point. the braille pattern is too large to fit with others, but I initially wanted to make (much widely used) 6-dot brailles good looking when mixed with normal text. probably not a wise decision though...
< 1448283659 917638 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I didn't realize it was *that* early
< 1448283786 665750 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I've been reading it when I wake up
< 1448283813 350945 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :(10-ish, GMT)
< 1448283813 350972 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only checked just now, but other days it's been up at like 7 am
< 1448283846 916542 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk
< 1448283891 744488 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was up before quarter to 10 GMT this morning
< 1448283978 255064 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, "Javascript is required for optimal experience." -- ok, so it's not actually required, only recommended.
< 1448284024 294779 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if you need optimal experience, JavaScript is required
< 1448284035 41898 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than google
< 1448284035 914462 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's teeeeeeechnically correct
< 1448284051 648983 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page."
< 1448286123 943561 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anybody here ever written something in curry?
< 1448286822 529466 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, so IPF is another name for the Itanium aka IA64 architecture?
< 1448287195 854842 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1448288335 603176 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-95-164.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1448288935 230585 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-95-164.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448289071 89060 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there were something between Java and JavaScript.
< 1448289079 521821 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ScriptJava
< 1448289081 9660 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1448289182 49663 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1448289333 972656 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I like neither of the two.
< 1448289343 237935 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Java because it limits my expressive mental power.
< 1448289351 558847 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't like JavaScript because I don't like it.
< 1448289359 283097 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like scriptjava?
< 1448289393 584114 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it supports functional programming with type inference, operator overloading etc. then yes
< 1448289557 454607 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Haskell/
< 1448289561 806202 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1448289600 542474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: um, maybe you want haskell?
< 1448289604 457121 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the Japanese in the topic mean?
< 1448289735 552651 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ウフ
< 1448289736 722296 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[U+30A6 KATAKANA LETTER U] [U+30D5 KATAKANA LETTER HU]
< 1448289743 268906 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuhu channel?
< 1448289747 803401 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently
< 1448289767 656939 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take it
< 1448289833 219672 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEAH
< 1448289840 91502 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SPJ disappoints me
< 1448289843 641775 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's working at Microsoft
< 1448289850 970018 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IE still doesn't support Haskell native
< 1448289853 310226 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it did with VB
< 1448289863 882819 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of a bummer
< 1448289866 757857 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't support VB anymore either, so
< 1448289878 786271 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they got cold feet.
< 1448289897 924274 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess at this point you'd almost expect them to support TypeScript natively, but I don't think they do that either?
< 1448289900 955788 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of companies wont use newer IE versions because of that
< 1448289909 847677 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're still running websites with client side VB
< 1448289949 466567 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like book keeping/time keeping software :)
< 1448290034 619597 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, using old versions of office
< 1448290046 20843 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to plugin compatibility issues
< 1448290050 384235 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compatability
< 1448290188 235183 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was told off for using divs rather than tables after the intranet site look broken on the new IE
< 1448290202 17227 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while making it look good on the new IE I just switched to using divs :)
< 1448290209 518000 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a few years ago though
< 1448291219 97769 :Welo!~hato@546A4E77.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448292416 676698 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448292720 139880 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07FiM++14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45608&oldid=36952 5* 03192.127.94.7 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax */ replaced one of the colons with a semicolon
< 1448294414 582023 :spiette!~spiette@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448295783 940201 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc's stack-protector-all is killing me
< 1448295796 557310 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it protects all but you
< 1448295797 950983 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it produces unfavorable stack layouts
< 1448295801 564933 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1448295805 699616 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack cannary isn't the problem
< 1448295809 973799 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the stack layout it chooses
< 1448295821 518600 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the stack layout is ARGS -> EIP -> EBP -> LOCALS
< 1448295844 209506 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with just the stack cannary it'd be ARGS -> EIP -> EBP -> CANNARY -> LOCALS
< 1448295848 674043 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't be a big deal.
< 1448295859 667006 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it actually rearranges mixes args and locals etc.
< 1448295892 32152 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's really unfavorable
< 1448295913 65082 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd want esp to point to your buffer somehow so you can set up a rop chain
< 1448295965 913261 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the stack layout with stack-protector-all makes it hard to gain control over esp
< 1448296000 923457 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what you need to provide arguments to functions you're going to call and setup a chain of functions
< 1448296122 756191 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x08048597 : add esp, 0x54 ; pop ebx ; pop ebp ; ret
< 1448296130 24395 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you need these kind of gadgets
< 1448296134 789594 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 0x54 is too much in this case :(
< 1448296163 359960 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you need to find a gadget that alters esp in a way so it points into your buffer)
< 1448296564 554363 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/sample 542 glyphs so far.
< 1448296741 371169 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next big thing
< 1448296753 533895 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploiting security vulnerabilities in brainfuck programs
< 1448296772 219474 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make them print to stdout whatever the f*ck you want using that security vulnerability
< 1448297068 241462 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: by taking over the interpreter that doesn't check tape head underflow or overflow
< 1448297087 87255 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...
< 1448297109 89209 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or by assuming that bf programs use NUL-Terminated strings as well .
< 1448297120 749375 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe has some more complicated bug, in an optimized interpreter
< 1448298168 841469 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-179-104.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448298256 792110 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I don't understand this. If the demigods only vote in case of a tie, then how did Hermod expect to cast a protest vote while also thinking there would not be enough aye votes.
< 1448298467 704025 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1448299174 994762 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-95-164.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1448299739 93178 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448300007 730110 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448300040 868361 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm...
< 1448300258 741162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448300270 536937 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an identifier for the "0" function. Essentially, 0:x::1:I where I is the identity function
< 1448300339 514905 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /could/ just use 0, but that gets confusing because most numeric functions have a domain of only the reals and functions. S (for "Self") already means successor. Z might work.
< 1448300792 499535 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This pangram contains four As, one B, two Cs, one D, thirty Es, six Fs, five Gs, seven Hs, eleven Is, one J, one K, two Ls, two Ms, eighteen Ns, fifteen Os, two Ps, one Q, five Rs, twenty-seven Ss, eighteen Ts, two Us, seven Vs, eight Ws, two Xs, three Ys, & one Z."
< 1448300818 233969 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much finangling was needed to produce this sentence
< 1448300999 533949 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've just found f(x)=f . x
< 1448301020 929523 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm doing some shady math, so it isn't too meaningful
< 1448301193 618838 :hppavilion[2]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448301195 523057 :hppavilion[2]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it is.
< 1448301269 89447 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-95-164.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448301385 688953 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1448301646 565411 :hppavilion[2]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1448301703 766570 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448302221 149767 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Apollo10]]": XNR left behind after aborted attempt to move to mainspace
< 1448302255 582861 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1448302285 946954 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02User:Esowiki201529A/test link10]]": copyright violation
< 1448302357 730489 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448302361 239815 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hello!
< 1448302376 138193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas
< 1448302384 334597 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/block14]]4 block10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10blocked [[02User:103.3.98.22710]] with an expiry time of 1 week (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): copyright violation, possibly spamming, more likely human than spambot
< 1448302452 171514 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is a month old news, so you might have seen it: The winners of the 24th IOCCC have been announced. http://www.ioccc.org/2015/whowon.html
< 1448302488 443157 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:103.3.98.22714]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45609 5* 03Ais523 5* (+503) 10block notice
< 1448302638 73417 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.216 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1448302690 723897 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1448303265 838636 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok, crazy idea. name: Fallen Behind. mc: 1BB. type: Enchantment. text: At the beginning of each end step, destroy all permanents that have been tapped and controlled by the active player continuously since the beginning of the turn. For each permanent destroyed this way, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
< 1448303454 763481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The relative phrase should be rephrased somehow to make it better.
< 1448303816 521167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1448303859 730033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448304348 762238 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448304530 533356 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellu
< 1448304540 539414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1448304542 524266 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out what f**g is equal to xD
< 1448304555 51187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I deleted the redirect you left behind at [[Apollo]] for yo
< 1448304558 873604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for you
< 1448304572 794057 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, did I leave a redirect accidentally?
< 1448304573 41710 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-179-104.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1448304574 421861 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry xD
< 1448304591 199447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not accidentally, as a non-admin you have no means not to
< 1448304894 564642 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1448304965 81507 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meanwhile, I also wanted to ask you about something
< 1448304992 26529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: which reminds me
< 1448305007 5429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm now pretty sure Three Star Programmer is TC; I have a plan for compiling cyclic tag into it
< 1448305030 647224 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, that would be interesting
< 1448305163 219260 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I want to ask about ayacc and yacc stuff.
< 1448305219 803673 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-179-104.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448305232 823634 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know how we can prove with a computer that an ambiguous ayacc grammar is ambiguous only in ways that we like. There are two specific cases I want to bring up.
< 1448305272 435366 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is when the language has some infix operators, with precedences and associativity declared with the directives.
< 1448305320 659523 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are supposedly disambiguated by parenthesis. Is there some way that we could make the computer verify us that all relevant expressions can indeed be parenthisized?
< 1448305333 619436 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This surely needs some extra annotations in the grammar, but even still I'm not sure how we could do it.
< 1448305340 763464 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might even need changes in ayacc.
< 1448305369 715822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: isn't it known that it's impossible to tell whether a language is ambiguous or not?
< 1448305378 348772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, uncomputable
< 1448305382 113568 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh sure
< 1448305387 434346 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want it to be that general
< 1448305395 472023 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want a particular way to prove that the language is not ambiguous
< 1448305418 727694 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc already has such a way: if the language has no shift-reduce and reduce-reduce conflicts as a lalr(1) grammar, it's unambiguous
< 1448305434 356210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1448305453 943520 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in some well-behaved cases we can prove it, say if the precedences resolve all those conflicts.
< 1448305457 687046 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually,
< 1448305465 332559 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't ONLY need that the grammar is unambiguous
< 1448305515 99535 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also that for any syntax tree that the ambiguous version (without precedences) could nondeterministically output, there's some input for which the deterministic version (with precedences) outputs the same syntax tree,
< 1448305540 310132 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can get this input easily from the syntax tree by undoing the rules and adding parenthesis to some places where it's necessary.
< 1448305555 659463 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm you could write a pretty-printer for the AST and prove you can parse the original AST back.
< 1448305574 748898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting direction to go down
< 1448305575 283266 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could annotate rules that we want to treat as behaving like parenthesis.
< 1448305611 762799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is a grammar always unambiguous if every production starts with ( and ends with ), with those characters otherwise unused?
< 1448305630 554695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no, you also need to avoid having two rules that tr
< 1448305638 425042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that trigger on the same input sequence directly
< 1448305644 854415 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm trying to get there conceptually... this doesn't mean that there has to be an *actual* pretty printer at any point)
< 1448305645 703576 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this seems important to me because in some real languages like C++ it gets quite difficult to see that while the crazy syntax quirks make you rephrase some things you want to write, but you can always rephrase, and there's a mechanical way to do that.
< 1448305658 90934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a := ( b ) | ( c ); b := ( d ); c := ( d )
< 1448305687 508946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course not. there can still be simple reduce-reduce ambiguities
< 1448305698 515008 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a := ( ) | ( )
< 1448305705 205733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's the same thing I suggested there
< 1448305719 553195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /does/ make the shape of the parse tree unambiguous, though
< 1448305728 232571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only ambiguity is as to which type of node a particular node is
< 1448305753 459800 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, C++ grammar is _crazy_
< 1448305780 143541 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least many people who have an eye for things like this stare at it a lot, which helps.
< 1448305824 499553 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I'd like a mechanical way to be able to prove things like this, which doesn't depend on a committee happening to squint at the grammar the right way and not finding any problems.
< 1448306193 734817 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448306291 96374 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if a grammar uses infixes and precedences, then ayacc can already prove that the language with precedences in unambiguous.
< 1448306296 431100 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can't prove that it's expressive enough.
< 1448306357 472074 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me mention another case. Suppose that instead of precedences, you have prefix operators that take a variable number of arguments (the last argument is optional or can be repeated),
< 1448306384 739229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like an esolang already :-D
< 1448306386 311789 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to make the grammar unambiguous, there's an optional matching terminator you can put after the expression to close the innermost expressions of certain kind.
< 1448306389 863307 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't
< 1448306394 155053 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, come on
< 1448306401 519040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C, with its if-else ambiguity
< 1448306410 200262 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++ with try-catch
< 1448306427 67177 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it can also be an esolang, because esolangs can do such things too
< 1448306434 203285 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's very much a real problem
< 1448306451 919009 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, C doesn't have just a matching terminator
< 1448306456 59471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that if-else ambiguity is really common, and also quite hard to fix in yacc
< 1448306469 330971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although ayacc will output a message telling you what you have to do, it's not at all obvious why it works)
< 1448306506 380463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how do you write an ambiguous try-catch? try foo(); try bar(); catch (x) { ... } ?
< 1448306508 65202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem very useful
< 1448306512 511752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it is technically ambiguous
< 1448306534 613551 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try try foo catch(x) bar catch(y) bar catch(z) bar catch(w) bar
< 1448306538 882473 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple catches
< 1448306560 7625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, that line of code is painful to read
< 1448306596 195333 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, especially as it's not even clear that the first "try" is part of the code. sorry.
< 1448306637 666751 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1448306642 84482 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in this case what I think I can do is to have a grammar that has alternatives for certain rules with equivalent semantics (say with or without the terminator), and use a preprocessor to create a variant of the grammar with the more concise equivalents stripped, and then use ayacc to prove that the variant is unambiguous.
< 1448306667 323265 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, prove that if you always have to write else; after every if statement without an else, then it's unambiguous
< 1448306681 819496 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or always have to write endif after an if, in a non-C language
< 1448306688 467083 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh dear)
< 1448306695 473175 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BASIC with its END IF)
< 1448306702 832264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or vhdl
< 1448306819 191311 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first stage, I'd like a system where if I understand why the language can express everything I want to express, and a precise method for how to parenthisize a syntax tree to express it, then
< 1448306906 583569 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have a way to annotate (1) how syntax trees are equivalent to others semantically, (2) how I'm ok if some syntax trees are unexpressible because they're meaningless anyway even if it seems from the nondeterministic grammar that they should be possible, and (3) why the language is expressive;
< 1448306930 515949 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the computer should be able to check that if it trusts me about (1) and (2) then (3) is really a proof that the syntax is expressive.
< 1448306971 627802 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :At second stage, I'd like the computer to tell me why my proof in (3) doesn't work, eg. give counterexamples, similarly to how ayacc helps tell why a lalr(1) grammar has conflicts.
< 1448306985 478495 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wogcc.state.wy.us/SundryPassWord.cfm
< 1448307012 174867 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and
< 1448307031 604842 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :At zeroth stage, I'd like to know what the heck to search for to find scientific research papers about this.
< 1448307066 748869 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448307069 552398 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should ask zeroth stage on TCS stack exchange.
< 1448307084 339323 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first I'll wait if you have anything in minid.;
< 1448307089 254849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1448307094 579004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that even this is uncomputable
< 1448307099 511195 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is!
< 1448307102 678993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't, I don't really have ideas on where to start
< 1448307105 563486 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need to always be able to prove it.
< 1448307118 707220 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need a particular restricted set of grammars and annotations that work for some grammars.
< 1448307131 739104 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need this to work for every crazy language.
< 1448307143 138985 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just, you know, many real world crazy languages.
< 1448307154 700618 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in many case my problem in first place is that the language isn't even LR.
< 1448307228 561244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc input is LR(2) (but not LR(1)), which is one of my favourite parser facts
< 1448307242 990902 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. you mentioned that.
< 1448307271 943271 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C (after preprocessing) requires you to track which names are typenames in what scopes.
< 1448307273 334908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of my favourite parser facts, so I'm not surprised I mentioned it earlier
< 1448307286 495589 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which gets way more complicated in C++ by the way.
< 1448307301 863341 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grammar of C++ is horrible. It has so many corners.
< 1448307303 323524 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Rust, it's easy to parse =P
< 1448307305 443196 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/grammar/syntax/
< 1448307336 52619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448307417 292071 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm...
< 1448307421 615507 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :f**g
< 1448307431 17136 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :f**3 = f . f . f
< 1448307451 675826 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 is a function here, equal to x*3, so I must be able to do f**g
< 1448307470 903745 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some horrible kludges that handle some underlying ambiguities, some right in the lexer; and there's multiple ambiguities that the programmers themselves have to be aware of because they come up in real world code and can't be fixed because of compatibility.
< 1448307488 744425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: well in Underload and Underlambda, numbers are defined as the matching exponentiation functions
< 1448307519 119385 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK. Well for mine, it makes more sense that they're multiplication
< 1448307519 995036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (a)3^, or "a to the power 3", is a compose a compose a (i.e. aaa in Underload/Underlambda syntax)
< 1448307529 758968 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: nah, there are no languages that are good and simple, only ones that are too young yet to be complicated. this applies to syntax too.
< 1448307539 396845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your "there should be a way to exponentiate one function with another" is just application (multiplication is composition)
< 1448307547 871773 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also found that f(g)=f . g, so that might be helpful
< 1448307567 481401 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: C started out with a good deal of "complicated"
< 1448307571 521130 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm just discovering λ-calculus xD
< 1448307599 939709 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean specifically Rust can be parsed with an LR(1) grammar
< 1448307611 127901 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think unlambda or underload specifically favors that particular numeric representations. It's not like there are library functions using them or something.
< 1448307625 445192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: underlambda does have library functions
< 1448307638 299557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're meant to be general-purpose but specifically favour that numeric representation
< 1448307647 609503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload doesn't, and in fact some people use other numeric representations
< 1448307650 180570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the string-of-colons one
< 1448307654 698784 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see
< 1448307690 973091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that one can be added easily enough, but other operations are awkward)
< 1448307770 872281 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps f**g is equal to f composed with itself g(1) times?
< 1448307796 728096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if g(1) isn't an integer?
< 1448307804 67842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if g doesn't even take integer arguments?
< 1448307836 729081 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know, that was my problem
< 1448307846 749685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen the Haskell type "Hyper a b = Hyper b a -> b"?
< 1448307854 558957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. Hyper a b = (Hyper a b -> a) -> b
< 1448307864 702414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interesting because it can exist in Haskell but not in set theory.
< 1448307876 188748 :Welo!~hato@546A4E77.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1448307901 242231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Hyper Bool Bool ~~ Nat, i.e. the naturals are isomorphic to their own double powerset.
< 1448307912 934051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: one of your sets of as and bs is backwards, which?
< 1448307916 817954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, your two lines don't match)
< 1448307931 786754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it backwards?
< 1448307942 963633 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the second line is double-backwards
< 1448307943 106142 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither one
< 1448307944 72697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyper a b = Hyper b a -> b = (Hyper a b -> a) -> b
< 1448307946 94620 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is right
< 1448307949 939078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1448307959 583404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :second line is iterated
< 1448307990 970801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the reals isomorphic to their own powerset? IIRC yes?
< 1448308005 68579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is isomorphic to its own powerset in set theory.
< 1448308006 145566 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Foo = Foo (Foo -> Foo) is also fun
< 1448308021 672672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That uses negative recursion, though.
< 1448308030 410086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess Hyper does too.
< 1448308040 507783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking that it preserves variances.
< 1448308041 211713 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but it's still fine in Haskell, and it's inhabited nevertheless
< 1448308050 817045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, right
< 1448308057 259055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can merge an countable number of reals into one real
< 1448308062 451553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't merge an uncountable number of reals into one real
< 1448308108 819562 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, is that certain? how do you prove that?
< 1448308112 416722 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah Hyper is a proper bifunctor
< 1448308117 574190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Profunctor
< 1448308122 808248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heared of that theorem.
< 1448308130 612430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a bifunctor, but not an instance of the Haskell class Bifunctor.
< 1448308138 875154 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can't merge a continuum many reals to a real of course.
< 1448308164 837717 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read somewhere about "Honalee algorithm" which can generate the parser for LR(anything)
< 1448308185 942891 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hi.
< 1448308191 870768 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a crazy card idea for you.
< 1448308195 831030 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1448308233 134220 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The Foo thing is basically what you need for untyped lambda calculus; you can have abs :: (Foo -> Foo) -> Foo; abs = Foo, and app :: Foo -> Foo -> Foo; app (Foo f) x = f x, and you can express closed lambda terms, say, abs (\x -> app x x)
< 1448308263 391131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: What idea?
< 1448308274 151355 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :name: Fallen Behind. mc: 1BB. type: Enchantment. text: At the beginning of each end step, destroy all permanents that have been tapped and controlled by the active player continuously since the beginning of the turn. For each permanent destroyed this way, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
< 1448308285 448806 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only, that ability should be rephrased somehow so it's easier to read.)
< 1448308292 976467 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using higher order abstract syntax)
< 1448308296 262604 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes, and you can cause nontermination.
< 1448308303 95407 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: of course.
< 1448308351 673952 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway usually people talk about the untyped lambda calculus as a CCC with that isomorphism.
< 1448308355 214861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that.
< 1448308362 235453 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest way to use this is with sleep/thirst effects. That requires you to use an additional color, which can be blue or possible white or green.
< 1448308378 946707 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to make this hard by requiring double black mana, so it's harder to abuse.
< 1448308408 527656 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :app (abs (\x -> app x x)) (abs (\x -> app x x)) `seq` () -- *twiddles thumbs*
< 1448308428 654613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I added that
< 1448308430 332920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a strange card in TSP that lets you use it in mono-black, but even then I think it's not overpwoered.
< 1448308451 650678 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should perhaps use an infix operator for app.
< 1448308490 221258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'd guess that that causes inliner problems, like the usual definition of Y with Rec?
< 1448308490 454295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that card is OK.
< 1448308493 224049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where y
< 1448308493 371506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f -> (\x -> f (outR x x)) (InR (\x -> f (outR x x)))
< 1448308501 322323 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so what would f**I be, where I is the identity function?
< 1448308524 670269 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Probably, but I'm running it in ghci without optimization.
< 1448308550 748177 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I is 1 as a Church numeral
< 1448308565 875686 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first I tried to make an instant that _untaps_ permanents like that, but that can't work: either it's overpowered combined with the right cards, or it's so overpriced it's useless, so it doesn't encourage using it in an interesting way.
< 1448308579 43396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "I am 1 as a Church numeral" hth
< 1448308581 529574 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: THat's what I was thinking, but I want to allow more than just church numerals
< 1448308592 103876 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it didn't
< 1448308621 87294 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But destroying it makes sense in black, because (1) black can destroy tapped creatures anyway, although this one also destroys artifacts, (2) doesn't let you abuse cards where "doesn't untap" is a drawback.
< 1448308632 10344 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And black likes to make zombies this way.
< 1448308661 867032 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still mustn't be too cheap because then you could get a lot of zombies for cheap.
< 1448308685 544684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1448308747 210972 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, what do people informally call "doesn't untap during its controller's untap step" these days? Is it thirst, or sleep?
< 1448308768 156343 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( cumulative upkeep: sacrifice a zombie )
< 1448308768 362783 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1448308878 923688 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are really black, you can use it on your own permanents that have a "doesn't untap" drawback, such as tempest dual lands or Giant Oyster.
< 1448308978 359031 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you know which strange black card from TSP lets you use this in a mono-black deck? although still not in a way that's overpowered.
< 1448308980 713829 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it has many of those kind of uses; it works on any player's permanents whether you or opponent
< 1448308998 510218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448309008 823012 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't know, but I will try to look
< 1448309010 334690 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it deliberately kills your own stuff, that just makes it blacker.
< 1448309104 800721 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( The gathering channel )
< 1448309108 962816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: why bother? the Stasis already has a cumulative upkeep. Winter Orb doesn't
< 1448309126 395828 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Winter Orb actually might be somewhat crazy with this.
< 1448309154 190798 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will kill the opponent's lands in a completely one-sided way.
< 1448309192 562702 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448309194 403274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cumulative upkeep: Put an age counter on this permanent."
< 1448309201 67753 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ouch
< 1448309232 679068 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, that would require you to assemble a 3-combo, with 2 cards very specific, and spend 7 (or maybe 6) mana on it, so in a format with Winter Orb it's probably easily ok to destroy all lands of the opponent for that price.
< 1448309243 599616 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448309289 807969 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: card name: methuselah
< 1448309321 744315 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-179-104.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1448309347 967259 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I think if you're playing Legacy and spend 6 mana on those 3 cards to destroy all but one of the opponent's lands, then the opponent will calmly play a second land next turn and kill you and think you were going easy on him.
< 1448309371 31801 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it only Vintage that's so crazy?
< 1448309441 610019 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Winter Orb already denies the opponent the use of those lands, so destroying them isn't too much extra.
< 1448309454 706890 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found Mana Skimmer in Time Spiral
< 1448309470 642704 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's it, yes
< 1448309561 541370 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to invent esonums
< 1448309565 147864 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for fun
< 1448309844 696563 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have no clue what I'm doing xD
< 1448309930 133607 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kinds of weird mathematical objects could we have?
< 1448309979 111154 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe the technique where (I modify the grammar by splitting and deleting rules, prove that everything accepted by the new grammar is accepted by the original with the same semantics, and the modified grammar is ayacc unambiguous) covers enough that I could use it for enough cases,
< 1448310012 302946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case maybe I should write a preprocessor that helps verify the modification by generating the two grammars from a common input.
< 1448310019 464862 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to think about how much this covers.
< 1448310357 609587 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ok, this gives me a lot to think about. Thanks for being a teddy bear for this, and good night.
< 1448310575 568356 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I use ≡ or ≔ for assignment?
< 1448310590 678601 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps ≔ is assignment and ≡ is reactive assignment?
< 1448311613 815185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want to see a SQLite extension to access Gatherer, and I want a filterable "last updated time" field to be added. Such a field makes it easy to make backups
< 1448311687 369298 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I think the virtual table capabilities of SQLite are currently too weak for some purposes.
< 1448311859 862298 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many possible trit gates are there?
< 1448311890 66743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: with two inputs?
< 1448311906 323794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have nine possible combinations of trits coming in on the inputs, each of which can produce one of three outputs
< 1448311909 731571 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, forgot to mention that
< 1448311921 976990 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that should be enough for me to figure it out xD
< 1448311922 207158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving you 9**3 possibilities
< 1448311922 846157 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :27
< 1448311926 546754 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right
< 1448311930 240206 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... a lot
< 1448311931 741700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is 243
< 1448311940 538548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's too late for me to do maths in my head really
< 1448311948 214228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, and be confident about being correct)
< 1448311999 171340 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Have any ideas about what I should do for esonums?
< 1448312021 141044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: my creative process for esolangs is very different from yours
< 1448312026 996944 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1448312041 672058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think "I need an esoteric version of «somethign I already know»", look for something similar, move on
< 1448312056 615119 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much
< 1448312057 896845 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1448312060 173253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think along the lines of "here are some interesting primitives, how much can I do with /just/ those"?
< 1448312067 928241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then try to take the language to its logical conclusion
< 1448312077 903112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Snowflake is another example along similar lines
< 1448312082 499060 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The curse of ADHD
< 1448312086 498922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original concept was a language that changes over time as you run programs in it
< 1448312111 118404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I realized it needed to be reversible, because otherwise you couldn't guarantee that your program could keep running forever as the language might lose computational power over time
< 1448312126 376167 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is this?
< 1448312134 96359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Snowflake
< 1448312136 52468 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :snowflake again
< 1448312145 38207 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1448312148 253140 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of my ideas are "What if THIS IDEA was SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT"
< 1448312160 224784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite loops aren't reverisble, but I needed a lot of power in one "main loop" iteration, because otherwise you couldn't "keep up" with changes to the language
< 1448312168 230345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then I ended up having to add SIMD parallelism
< 1448312175 390105 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: me too. i'm already ready to invent another auberginoid :P
< 1448312185 413115 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, Fueue started as a queue-based Underload, Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download started as functional BIT
< 1448312194 956212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it was a case of finding primitives that fit into this kind of highly specific paradigm
< 1448312268 237359 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to try that method at some poinnt
< 1448312275 220921 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want to do is create something similar to numbers, but entirely different. Then, I want to start taking stuff from different branches of mathematics (like order theory) and roll it in
< 1448312285 921360 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Similar, but entirely different'
< 1448312287 786312 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'
< 1448312295 77246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: IMO an esolang is a failure if the spec has to assume the existence of numbers to work
< 1448312297 268104 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs summed up in their entirely
< 1448312300 404238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only half joking)
< 1448312303 109301 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine tend to be like "here's a list of three or four goals to achieve...fill in the details"
< 1448312305 719114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally you should be able to implement them in terms of something else
< 1448312335 782543 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mine isn't so much an esolang as the mathematics of aliens
< 1448312340 101173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Three Star Programmer wasn't so hard to work out; the key idea was to never read from odd-numbered tape elements but only beyond a certain point
< 1448312347 616137 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is why you're the guy that did the thing once.
< 1448312369 469113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that was more being an undergraduate with a ton of spare time during the summer holidays
< 1448312383 590608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were surprised an undergraduate did it, my reaction was more "well who else would waste twomonths on this?"
< 1448312385 386569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*two months
< 1448312465 408167 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm...
< 1448312565 588817 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: its not enough to have the time. you also have to be comfortable analyzing computational models that don't involve numbers as primitives
< 1448312584 782724 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tree order theory? One where numbers are on a tree instead of a line?
< 1448312598 601001 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, that's an idea for something in general)
< 1448312610 392675 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not necessarily numbers)
< 1448312618 106246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: why would having numbers as primitives even help? :-D
< 1448312652 118273 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it sure seems to help the thousands of CS undergrads that do pretty much all their algorithmic work with them
< 1448312672 960594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most algorithms I know either don't use numbers, or use them to keep track of which order things are in
< 1448312683 25531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few exceptions where you have to count something
< 1448312722 142889 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: keeping track of the order things are in, or even just doing basic arithmetic, is actually quite common!
< 1448312736 881448 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algebraic Graph Theory
< 1448312741 363039 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but speaking of languages without numbers, i finally got around to implementing Platts last night
< 1448312742 759193 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own personal interpretation of graph theory
< 1448312743 745550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but keeping track of an order can be done with a ton of primitives
< 1448312751 392614 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll design that
< 1448312752 707031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to use numbers, they're just normally convenient
< 1448312812 961394 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i will rephrase: you ave to have overwhelming amounts of time to deal with the added inconvenience of a lack of numbers, and also not be supremely annoyed by that lack
< 1448312840 467677 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(try to put yourself in the shoes of the average joe for a moment)
< 1448312900 660097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well, suppose you start by trying to implement cyclic tag
< 1448312903 639712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an excellent default
< 1448312914 303177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do numbers help? the language doesn't have much to do with numbers in the first place
< 1448312930 816109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers help, and some languages let you use numbers as pointers
< 1448312953 610729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's only coincidence that you're using numbers for that rather than, say, chains of tape elements in brainfuck
< 1448313023 692078 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :see already you're not putting yourself in the shoes of the average joe. no average joe would say "cyclic tag is an excellent default". The average joe would say "Java" or "Python" or "C#" or "C++"
< 1448313031 337277 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-179-104.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448313035 169914 :Welo!~hato@546A4E77.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448313145 867354 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :the average joe would go "wow jeez tapes and symbols" shortly but adapt to the simplistic nature of things pretty easily, i feel
< 1448313173 979023 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then give up and say "this thing is way, way too simple to compute anything" instead of persevering and proving the thingy)
< 1448313187 972933 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the average joe would say "wow jeezz tapes and symbols. weird, but i have a project due, so i'll just forget it"
< 1448313188 908813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hauris
< 1448313198 663195 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yeah, exactly
< 1448313216 802840 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiii ʃaxaf
< 1448313235 767628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maurhis
< 1448313242 564739 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448313255 952012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well you wouldn't expect someone to solve the problem if they were starting from a completely inappropriate starting point
< 1448313265 130481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I started by trying to prove it Turing-incomplete
< 1448313281 128566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then analysed why the proofs weren't working to figure out what approach to take
< 1448313322 584791 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but people in my "computability + automata + turing machines + whatever" course seemed not immediately frustrated with how simple automata/TMs are, when having to design them; then again, the things they had to design or the properties they had to reason about were much simpler
< 1448313375 499267 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatively ordered set? One where some objects have positions relative to others, but there's no overarching order (or if there is, it's expressed by rules)
< 1448313400 173933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well esodesign and esoprogramming aren't quite the same skill, although there's a lot of overlap
< 1448313401 745738 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: that's a poset! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set
< 1448313409 190040 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay!
< 1448313410 948549 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or is it?)
< 1448313415 126259 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is.
< 1448313419 913471 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe
< 1448313422 594726 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtly different
< 1448313430 28221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esodesign's a bit like game design; you're making a puzzle to solve, and need to understand how people will/can go about solving it
< 1448313446 54157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that it's up to you how easy or difficult to make it, it's OK if you don't expect the puzzle to be solved ever
< 1448313459 241601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no implicit "this is solvable" warranty
< 1448313497 54800 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always been bad at coming up with the "puzzles" because i'm also really bad at solving them
< 1448313549 257861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "start with the solution and work backwards" is a common advice for that in game design, but it doesn't really work with esolangs
< 1448313554 754037 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you have to aim nicely between "trivially powerful" and "too simple to do anything", but from my perspective, everything is either one of those things
< 1448313579 29710 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worked on Arithmetic of the Functia and it was really fun, so now I'm looking for something fun like that to work on. That's why I attempted to make Esonums
< 1448313582 762516 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, i feel like lots of esolangs might have started as: "i want a programming language in which programming in it involves..."
< 1448313704 748584 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "solution" is that technique. and a well-designed esolang obscures this technique to make itself look useless
< 1448313708 42040 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you seen http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/61804/create-a-programming-language-that-only-appears-to-be-unusable ?
< 1448313733 680047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't follow PPCG, and generally rely on people linking it to me
< 1448313745 545470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the threads there are brilliant and really worth reading but most are just bad
< 1448313755 773350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thanks for linking me to the interesting ones :-)
< 1448313758 277271 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :they gamified esolang creation in exactly the way you described!
< 1448313777 375975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, although their languages also have to take input
< 1448313781 635774 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a thread about "create an esolang that's good at matching 2D patterns"
< 1448313784 300234 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a good idea, but no time to implement it
< 1448313785 888592 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was interesting
< 1448313900 817416 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a thread on meta that seems targeted toward pretty much replicatng the Language list
< 1448313934 811613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I noticed that the first one was based on some sort of cube with partial rotations (Rubik's cube style) before the author mentioned it
< 1448313938 994149 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh...
< 1448313941 377467 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which functional language has the shortest procedural interpreter?
< 1448313956 442011 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do Functia Matrices because I don't yet have function addition
< 1448313970 786719 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have any ideas?
< 1448314008 606134 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :function addition is well-defined
< 1448314018 902787 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :f+g(x)=f(x)+g(x) for all x
< 1448314041 583951 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Oh.
< 1448314046 417733 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f+g)(x)?
< 1448314052 624896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's one well-definition
< 1448314087 496062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Underlambda definition is along the lines of (f+g)(x) = f(x) composed with g(x)
< 1448314097 192715 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it looks like that's poplular, but that won't work
< 1448314103 225746 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, underlambda's looks nice
< 1448314104 469345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's more precise because it allows for the possibility that f and g might take weird numbers of arguments
< 1448314128 890973 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Should I use underlambda's definition? That might be good
< 1448314139 291512 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or I'll use Kleene addition
< 1448314162 332166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: well in Underlamda, function application is exponentiation, and composition is multiplication, so we have x**(f+g) = x**f * x**g
< 1448314176 726094 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yep, that works.
< 1448314177 622518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition of addition follows logically from that of multiplication and exponentiation
< 1448314185 917846 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1448314189 824877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is the reverse of the way most people define it, but…)
< 1448314242 445682 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he was using composition=multiplication before
< 1448314267 482969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I thought he was using application=multiplication?
< 1448314294 676599 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm confused of the differene
< 1448314295 522087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, I don't actually know what pronoun to use for hppavilion[1], was juts copying yours
< 1448314461 226891 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made computer puzzle games that are programmed to start with final position and work backward to create the puzzle by using seeded pseudorandom numbers
< 1448314464 639676 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1448314568 809592 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one way to do it
< 1448314576 204289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, one of them is actually a game and not a language, if you win the game then the interpreter calculates and prints the expected output itself
< 1448314628 595747 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds devious
< 1448314642 94755 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1448314647 888769 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe slightly against the spirit
< 1448314712 668278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it was mostly a protest against a mistake in the challenge spec
< 1448314721 911143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Three Star Programmer predates or postdates that contest?
< 1448314742 215552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, a version that took input would postdate because I haven't figured out how to do input in a way that remotely fits the spirit of the language yet
< 1448314807 930614 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is supposed to be output?
< 1448314893 997550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: in what, mauris's link? third-largest number in the input
< 1448315082 915743 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should enter Purple in the contest
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< 1448315790 436052 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-230-169.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane
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< 1448316562 634431 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07TOGA computer14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45610&oldid=39598 5* 03Ais523 5* (-33) 10you can't call something TC if it only has finite memory, and this definitely only has finite memory
< 1448316570 84045 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1448316689 722210 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07OISC14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45611&oldid=45317 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1783) 10/* List of OISCs */ an OISC can be described via its instruction + its memory mapping and addressing behaviour, so may as well put that information here rather than forcing people to read the individual pages
< 1448316699 573690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, been meaning to do that for a few days now
< 1448316711 865239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two of them are redlinks so I couldn't check
< 1448316733 201914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it surprises me how simple Three Star Programmer is compared to the others
< 1448316736 15115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it'd be more complex
< 1448316788 960476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly doesn't work much like the others
< 1448316803 374474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. only finitely many addresses can be read infinitely many times, the rest of memory can only be read finitely many times each
< 1448317000 63399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm currently trying to work out how to write a hello world in Three Star Programmer that isn't obnoxiously long
< 1448317031 381694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect I'll have to use multiple nested loops in order to avoid having to unary the entire ASCII space for every character
< 1448317276 733350 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-74.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1448317434 208291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, my notes on compiling cyclic tag to three star programmer are here: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/cytag-to-3*.pl
< 1448317443 359471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be pretty easy to write the compiler based on that
< 1448317449 688749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/testing/ it is another matter, though
< 1448317510 552975 :spiette!~spiette@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1448317654 916220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want a better 3* interpreter, and probably some way to get the construction to produce output (which makes it substantially more complex)
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< 1448319145 758024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
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< 1448322420 432864 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had an idea
< 1448322425 227662 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCEML
< 1448322434 300301 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantic Character Encoding and Markup Language
< 1448322478 178670 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A character encoding in every way worse than unicode, except for a few niche uses"
< 1448322502 685621 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Also, incredibly difficult to make fonts for)"
< 1448322666 390036 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1448322763 243843 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't have the linguistic benefits (e.g. supporting every language ever) of unicode, but it would have some benefits for characters like mathematical operators and arrows
< 1448322786 548284 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, that they're generated semantically instead of being a big lookup table
< 1448322898 235265 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, if there were a typable language for generating SCEML documents, you could type \(COMB:SUBSET, RING) to generate the open subset operator
< 1448322914 439624 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would become a list of codepoints with a semantic meaning
< 1448322975 24165 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: What do you think?
< 1448323097 320511 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No?