←2015-11-28 2015-11-29 2015-11-30→ ↑2015 ↑all
00:03:36 <boily> that's surprisingly profound.
00:04:58 <tswett> So, let me see if I think Kripke-Platek set theory is "obviously" arithmetically sound.
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00:08:40 <tswett> Hmm. Axiom of union. Hmmmm.
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00:09:18 <olsner> how do you see what you think?
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00:13:50 <zzo38> I wanted to make up a Magic: the Gathering card with "Entwine {0}", and also there can be possibility such as noncreatures with devour, or creatures with "Devour 0", or strange effects with overload, or dash on noncreatures, and there can be other thing
00:15:15 <hppavilion[1]> Imma create a List of Operators
00:15:31 <boily> hezzo38. what's entwine again?
00:15:44 <boily> . o O ( smooooth list of operators ♪ )
00:22:20 <zzo38> Entwine is an additional cost you can pay to choose all modes of the spell instead of just one
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00:28:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45688 * Hppavilion1 * (+2971) Basic arithmetic
00:36:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45689&oldid=45688 * Hppavilion1 * (+780) /* The operators */ Roots and logarithms
00:37:40 <tswett> olsner: by means of squirrels.
00:38:41 <olsner> tswett: I see
00:39:01 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: So where /is/ `neutral ?
00:40:17 <tswett> So I'm pondering what a model of KPST might be.
00:40:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45690&oldid=45689 * Hppavilion1 * (+74) /* The operators */ new categories, completely empty
00:40:30 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: nobody's made it.
00:41:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45691&oldid=45690 * Hppavilion1 * (+82) /* The operators */ Formatting
00:42:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45692&oldid=45691 * Hppavilion1 * (-74) Removed additional sections
00:43:43 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
00:43:49 <hppavilion[1]> What other types of operator are there?
00:44:29 <boily> Arcturian mega-operators?
00:45:11 <tswett> Man, there are so many.
00:45:18 <tswett> Lemme name a few...
00:45:29 <tswett> Integration, differentiation, convolution, Fourier transform and its buddies.
00:45:33 <tswett> Like the Laplace transform.
00:46:02 <tswett> Unary exponentiation, the famous exp(x) function.
00:46:20 <tswett> The power set operator.
00:46:36 <tswett> Inverse and composition of functions.
00:47:19 <tswett> Dot product, cross product, absolute value/norm, signum. Outer product, tensor product.
00:47:27 <tswett> Direct product, direct sum.
00:48:02 <tswett> Opposite--not the additive inverse operator, but the operator that takes an algebraic structure and returns a flipped-around version of it.
00:48:07 <tswett> `? opposite
00:48:08 <HackEgo> opposite? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:49:19 <tswett> `le/rn opposite/Eht etisoppo yrogetac fo a yrogetac si tsuj taht yrogetac, tub sdrawkcab.
00:49:21 <HackEgo> Learned «opposite»
00:50:05 <tswett> The constant-function operator.
00:50:12 <ais523> tswett: also known as mov
00:50:14 <tswett> Union, intersection, complement.
00:50:17 <ais523> wait, no
00:50:27 <ais523> mov operator ignores its right argument and returns the value of the left argument
00:50:33 <ais523> like comma from C, but with the arguments reversed
00:50:38 <ais523> err, no, same as comma
00:50:41 <ais523> it's returning its right argument
00:50:55 <ais523> "MOV a, b" means "a = a MOV b", which means "a = b"
00:51:16 <tswett> #define COMMA
00:51:19 <tswett> a = COMMA(a, b);
00:51:37 <tswett> Anyway...
00:51:49 <tswett> String concatenation.
00:51:54 <ais523> tswett: that's both beautiful and ugly at the same time
00:52:05 <tswett> Cartesian product, which is a special case of direct product.
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00:53:30 <tswett> Disjoint union, a special case of direct sum.
00:53:35 <tswett> Set exponential.
00:53:41 <tswett> Interior, closure.
00:54:10 <tswett> I think Gaussian blur counts as an operator.
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00:54:30 <tswett> Limit, summation.
00:55:22 <boily> isn't Gaussian blur a convolution?
00:55:29 <tswett> Yes.
00:55:47 <tswett> Vector projection.
00:57:06 <tswett> Rotation, translation, scaling, shearing, and so forth.
00:57:40 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: ^ ^ ^ there are a couple to get you started.
00:58:18 <\oren\> 成戦投折拾持指挙整料旅族旗昔昨昭景暑暗
00:58:20 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Thanks
01:00:35 <tswett> Integration, differentiation, convolution, Fourier transform, and Laplace transform work on numeric functions and similar things.
01:00:55 <tswett> Unary exponentiation works on numbers.
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01:01:11 <hppavilion[1]> Fuzzy Ternary Logic? Value is any real number between -1 and 1?
01:01:27 <tswett> That sounds interesting.
01:01:46 <\oren\> yay I fixed the glitch in Thai
01:02:57 <\oren\> hmm but ๆ็่้๊๋์ํ๎ is still happening
01:03:18 <\oren\> `unidecode ๆ็่้๊๋์ํ๎
01:03:19 <HackEgo> ​[U+0E46 THAI CHARACTER MAIYAMOK] [U+0E47 THAI CHARACTER MAITAIKHU] [U+0E48 THAI CHARACTER MAI EK] [U+0E49 THAI CHARACTER MAI THO] [U+0E4A THAI CHARACTER MAI TRI] [U+0E4B THAI CHARACTER MAI CHATTAWA] [U+0E4C THAI CHARACTER THANTHAKHAT] [U+0E4D THAI CHARACTER NIKHAHIT] [U+0E4E THAI CHARACTER YAMAKKAN]
01:05:23 <\oren\> that's not su much a bug in my font as a bug in my character lisitng program
01:05:57 <\oren\> Oh I know, I'll output a zwnbsp between each character
01:06:14 <ais523> that whole sequence of characters renders vertically in Konversation
01:06:25 <ais523> so maybe it's meant to look like that?
01:06:40 <\oren\> it is, but I don't want it to
01:06:51 <\oren\> I want to show each character on its own
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01:07:06 <tswett> Isn't zwnbsp the byte-order mark?
01:07:30 <\oren\> yah
01:07:44 <tswett> And isn't that deprecated?
01:07:55 <\oren\> but it will prevent the combining characters from doing so
01:07:57 <tswett> Like, you're supposed to use the... word non-joiner?
01:08:06 <\oren\> oh fuck that noise
01:09:03 <tswett> Here we go. Zero-width non-joiner. U+200C.
01:09:03 <\oren\> everything is deprecated
01:11:35 <\oren\> doesn't work
01:15:35 <\oren\> wow zwnbsp doesn't work either
01:18:58 <\oren\> aha
01:19:14 <\oren\> ๆ ็ ่ ้ ๊ ๋ ์ ํ ๎ 
01:21:31 <\oren\> eh good enough
01:23:34 <\oren\> ไม่เป็นไร
01:24:26 <\oren\> สวัสดีครับ
01:24:56 <\oren\> hmm the accents (?maybe not called tat) aren't showing up in my terminal
01:26:01 <\oren\> but this terminal is optimized for CJK...
01:26:24 <\oren\> ...whitch doesnt' have any accents, so ok then
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01:38:14 <hppavilion[1]> good job, \oren\
01:40:21 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps I should develop a functional language
02:02:18 <quintopia> you should finish one implementation of one language
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02:41:04 <boily> vinestalker monk with blade hands. mwah ah ah ah ah ah AH AH AH AH AH :D
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04:32:31 <quintopia> hello ais523
04:32:39 <ais523> hi quintopia
04:34:25 <quintopia> i wrote you a 3sp in python. python handles the dynamic memory allocation
04:34:37 <quintopia> so
04:34:48 <ais523> yep, I saw it patrolling the wiki
04:34:50 <quintopia> now can you explain to me how one would go about doing anything of interest in it
04:34:57 <ais523> it's probably less efficient than the C
04:35:09 <quintopia> PROBABLY
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04:36:53 <ais523> quintopia: http://nethack4.org/esolangs/cytag-to-3*.pl is my notes on how to program in it (is eventually planned to be a compiler but so far I've only written the docs)
04:38:18 <ais523> however it has most of a complete program there, with "fill in the gaps" suggestoins
04:38:31 <ais523> just needs me to get motivated to finish it; the problem is a rather more complex construction is needed to produce output
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04:51:54 <quintopia> ais523: okay makes sense. sort of what i expected i guess. would it be possible in any way to make input of any sort work and do anything useful?
04:52:17 <ais523> the problem is trying to come up with an input method that fits the flavour of the language
04:52:36 <quintopia> so you've got nothing, is what you're saying?
04:52:44 <ais523> yep
04:52:59 <ais523> or, well, you'd probably have to write -1 in the program to take input
04:53:08 <ais523> but it's unclear precisely what it would do if you did
04:53:31 <ais523> you couldn't take input unconditionally (or else you'd be forced to input faster than output), so it'd have to do nothing based on the value of a particular tape element
04:53:36 <quintopia> the obvious thing to me is to specify an "input register" that, for each character of input, gets run ord(c) times
04:54:10 <ais523> what do you mean by "gets run"? you mean that it gets dereferenced three times and that target is incremented ord(c) times?
04:54:17 <quintopia> yes
04:54:31 <quintopia> and let it be specifiable by the program
04:54:34 <quintopia> which one does it
04:54:51 <ais523> how do you control whether input is even read, though?
04:54:52 <quintopia> (unless that's not necessary)
04:55:00 <quintopia> same as you just said
04:55:03 <ais523> right
04:55:17 <ais523> one thing I care about is not breaking backwards compat on programs that don't understand I/O
04:55:22 <ais523> that's easy with output but harder with input
04:56:13 <quintopia> well if you could fix which register is the input register, then do that. two even numbered registers like with output
04:57:04 <ais523> output is odd numbered registers (intentionally, because I had something like the construction I linked in mind when I set things up)
04:57:17 <ais523> although it turns out that all that's really required is for them to have low numbers and skip 0
04:57:43 <quintopia> ah
04:57:44 <quintopia> well
04:58:08 <quintopia> as far as backwards compatibility, don't you already include a flag for turning IO on and off in your interpreter?
04:58:37 <ais523> nah, the first interp I wrote is very basic
04:58:43 <quintopia> oh
04:58:45 <ais523> it always gives debug output and I/O, although to different output channels
04:58:55 <ais523> so you can pipe them to /dev/null
04:59:10 <ais523> also it's very slow as it re-parses the input each main loop
04:59:19 <quintopia> well, perhaps you could just have it be nonblocking IO. do nothing if it fails to read a byte. then it's backwards compatible.
04:59:30 <ais523> haha, I like that actually
04:59:50 <ais523> it fits in excellently with some plans I had for something related
05:00:03 <ais523> also doesn't "fragment the language" like adding an option would
05:00:46 <ais523> it'd be harder to golf an interp (and Three Star Programmer is by far the simplest OISC I know, and I've looked at a bunch recently), so there are downsides
05:00:55 <ais523> but you can always make a no-input interp to get it as small as possible
05:06:20 <quintopia> yes
05:06:47 <quintopia> i think 3sp will go in the record books for "shortest interp"
05:07:03 <quintopia> even with IO its like three statements in a loop
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05:07:36 <quintopia> (compared to resplicate's 6 w/o IO)
05:08:18 <ais523> quintopia: you can write the main loop of a MiniMAX in eight bytes
05:08:23 <ais523> of 8086 asm
05:08:40 <ais523> that's possibly beatable but I don't know how
05:08:52 <ais523> ofc, reading in the program, I/O, et., are all expensive
05:09:04 <ais523> compared to that
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05:17:28 <quintopia> i can't wait to chain your resp->cytag compiler with your cytag->3SP to get rot13 in 3SP
05:17:38 <quintopia> (although, i'd have to add I/O to the former)
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05:30:47 <ais523> quintopia: err, my compiler's the other way round, cytag->resplicate
05:31:00 <quintopia> oh right
05:31:09 <quintopia> well
05:31:43 <quintopia> i'll figure out the other way. sounds like a hard problem
05:32:17 <ais523> cyclic tag shouldn't be an awful compilation target, though; it's based on tag systems (and has a pretty direct compilation from them), which in turn have a relatively direct construction from Turing machines
05:32:29 <ais523> the problem is that you have an O(n) slowdown
05:45:39 <zzo38> The following command can be used to calculate how much it is worth in Scrabble: tr a-z A-Z | tr -dc A-Z | tr A-Z 133214241813113A11114484A | utftovlq 8w | tr \\0 + | dc -e '0?p'
05:52:03 <ais523> what does utftovlq do?
05:53:23 <zzo38> It converts the input; in the case "utftovlq 8w" it will add a null byte after each byte of input.
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06:18:44 <quintopia> zzo38: that sounds like a good golfing challenge
06:36:29 <quintopia> zzo38: did you create that command yourself
06:36:55 <quintopia> zzo38: could you also include in the command a check that the word is in the ospd
06:37:54 <quintopia> zzo38: or else at least make sure it is the right length and doesn't contain more copies of a letter than are included in a scrabble set
06:40:42 <zzo38> I did write both utftovlq and the full pipeline text by myself. I did not intend it to check validity, although that can be another program.
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06:48:14 <quintopia> what all can utftovlq do?
06:48:25 <zzo38> To do a Pythagorean numerology method you can do: tr A-Za-z 1-91-91-81-91-91-8 | tr -dc 0-9 | dc -e '?8+9%1+p'
06:49:09 <quintopia> can i see the utftovlq program?
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06:51:42 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/prog/utftovlq.zip
06:52:23 <zzo38> It is compatible with both text and with binary data.
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06:54:49 <zzo38> It includes the man page too
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06:56:43 <zzo38> And it contains several examples of how to do it!
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07:58:35 <quintopia> ais523: why is it that in the reduction at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Reversible_Brainfuck the first block of four has the search mark and data cell positions swapped?
07:59:23 <ais523> quintopia: you might want to ask oerjan (who wrote that construction) rather than me (who merely invented the language)
08:07:14 <quintopia> ah
08:07:21 <quintopia> zzo38: neat
08:11:15 <\oren\> I've successfully generated a TTF version of b_jonas's fecupboard20
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08:13:02 <\oren\> (so I can try it in my terminal)
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08:15:14 <\oren\> this is how it looks http://www.orenwatson.be/fecupboard20.png
08:17:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45693&oldid=45692 * Hppavilion1 * (+1138) /* The operators */ New sections, !!
08:17:50 <\oren\> the native size appears to be 15 points
08:23:46 <\oren\> wait, that's obvious: 20 px * 0.75 pt/px = 15 pt
08:24:50 <\oren\> qwertyuiopasdfghjklxcvbnm
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08:25:12 <\oren\> hi Melvar
08:38:11 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: it needs a section for string/sequence operators
08:38:31 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: Right, right. Could you add that?
08:40:04 <quintopia> nope
08:43:06 <quintopia> i just had an idea though. a tape language with two tapes where the only control flow is swap tapes. dp becomes ip and v/v. (or you specify ip when swapping). its reversible!
08:59:36 <ais523> have the data pointer only able to move backwards
08:59:47 <ais523> and see if you can still make it TC
09:00:15 <ais523> (almost certainly you can if the language is complex enough, I was thinking more of a tarpit)
09:00:16 <ais523> I hope you can
09:06:15 <quintopia> ...i like it
09:07:21 <quintopia> one further: swap tapes also swaps the meanings of instructions to their reversed equivalents :p
09:07:50 <Jafet> A language based on excellent-bifurcation
09:08:07 <quintopia> what
09:08:38 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Bifurcation as in ~ATH, or is that a word outside of ~ATH I haven't heard before outside that context?
09:10:20 <Jafet> Hmm, maybe that doesn't make sense
09:10:53 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: "bifurcation" is a generally applicable English word, but one that isn't used very often
09:11:14 <ais523> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bifurcation
09:11:42 <ais523> wow, it has a lot of definitions, but most of them are just more specific versions of the general one
09:11:45 <Jafet> It would need to have two threads, each of which has a fixed behaviour, and the crucial control flow is to swap them
09:11:55 <ais523> specialized to certain themes
09:11:59 <ais523> Jafet: cyclic tag?
09:14:18 <Jafet> Not quite, the threads would run in parallel, and don't swap every cycle
09:15:13 <Jafet> https://www.allegro.cc/depot/ExcellentBifurcation
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09:55:23 <FireFly> hppavilion[1]: ~ATH?
09:55:57 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: It's on the wiki
09:56:13 <hppavilion[1]> Hard to explain
09:56:20 <hppavilion[1]> So I'd just check the page on it
09:56:28 <FireFly> oh
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12:30:45 <izabera> cool, allegro is still active
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12:31:00 <izabera> i used it years ago
12:31:22 <izabera> ah, the memories... :')
12:33:12 <izabera> actually most of those memories are related to my high school crush because he taught me
12:36:38 <ais523> is this allegro the rendering library?
12:36:46 <ais523> err, also input and so on, but mostly rendering
12:36:55 <izabera> yes that one
12:37:14 <ais523> I used that in my second year project for drawing the predicted path of a robot with various motion algorithms
12:37:25 <ais523> mostly because I wanted to compare the algorithms, prior to placing them into the robot
12:42:39 <oerjan> did you name it Karel
12:45:33 <oerjan> hm would that have been a double reference
12:45:39 <ais523> no, I didn't
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13:04:31 <oerjan> hoily
13:05:26 <boily> hellørjan!
13:07:20 <oerjan> next up, trying to understand your 3 year old brainfuck derivate code
13:07:27 <oerjan> *your own
13:10:23 <oerjan> obviously quintopia is right about the layout, now i'm wondering about the [ ] reductions...
13:12:34 <oerjan> as in, i'm starting to be pretty sure the translation for [ should start [<< not [>>
13:12:56 <oerjan> no, wait
13:13:41 <oerjan> i have to remember that [ works opposite to normal brainfuck. aaargh
13:14:27 <ais523> that's the whole point of the language, after all :-)
13:14:57 <oerjan> argh i don't have vim on this rented pc
13:15:07 <oerjan> (and i cannot install it, it's too locked down)
13:17:19 <ais523> what programming languages do you have available, if any?
13:17:30 <oerjan> heh
13:17:33 <ais523> are any of them IO-complete enough to write a quick vi clone?
13:17:49 <oerjan> well technically i can use vim inside the putty tmux, which is on a linux system.
13:17:54 <oerjan> :P
13:18:08 <oerjan> ais523: that seems a little excessive
13:18:35 <ais523> OK ed then
13:18:42 <oerjan> O KAY
13:19:13 <oerjan> actually i mainly wanted it to match brackets for me, but i found them by eye.
13:20:21 <ais523> that sounds like almost as much overkill as the time I wrote a bracket-matcher using the MediaWiki API
13:20:30 <boily> isn't there a standalone vim version for windows?
13:20:42 <boily> his523. that sounds painful.
13:20:47 <ais523> (admittedly it was intended to match brackets in MediaWiki markup, which has both {{ }} and {{{ }}} as bracket-pairs and writing things like {{{{{{{ is perfectly legal)
13:21:04 <ais523> (so using the existing parser over the API is easier than trying to figure out wtf the input means)
13:21:22 <oerjan> evil
13:21:46 <boily> is {{{{{{ {{ {{ {{ or {{{ {{{?
13:22:13 <shachaf> or { {{ {{{?
13:22:39 <ais523> boily: it's {{{ {{ {{ or {{ {{{ {{ or {{ {{ {{{ depending on what sort of closing brackets you match it with
13:23:08 <boily> oh, there are seven of them.
13:23:15 <FireFly> oerjan: about the layout of what?
13:23:25 <ais523> boily: now you see why I wrote the bracket matcher ;-)
13:24:56 <FireFly> also wow, that sounds horrible, about {{{{{{{
13:26:41 <oerjan> FireFly: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Reversible_Brainfuck#Computational_class
13:27:42 <oerjan> fff carpentry
13:29:27 <boily> fahrenheit furlong firkin?
13:29:41 <oerjan> ESSENTIALLY
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13:31:58 <boily> OKAY
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13:35:08 <oerjan> ok i think my [ ] code is still correct
13:35:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Reversible Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45694&oldid=33896 * Oerjan * (+18) /* Computational class */ Whoops
13:35:31 <b_jonas> “a bracket-matcher using the MediaWiki API” hehe
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13:37:38 <oerjan> @tell quintopia FIXED
13:37:38 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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13:41:05 <oerjan> hm right the code was correct so testing wouldn't have revealed it. not that i remember if i did any...
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13:44:11 <\oren\> good morjan!
13:44:28 <oerjan> good afternoren!
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13:45:57 <b_jonas> good moren
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13:48:18 * oerjan thinks ais523 has an unstable connection
13:48:33 <ais523> this is actually much more stable than usual atm
13:48:47 <oerjan> shocking
13:48:54 <b_jonas> I have multiple unstable connections
13:49:02 * int-e wonders when oerjan sleeps these days
13:49:06 <b_jonas> I connect to irc from the least unstable.
13:49:30 <oerjan> int-e: woke up an hour ago
13:50:02 <oerjan> but it's been unstable
13:51:20 <shachaf> @time oerjan
13:51:21 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Sun Nov 29 14:51:20 2015
13:51:33 <shachaf> only an hour off
13:52:17 <b_jonas> meh, everyone here is either from Norway or the UK, so everyone is within an hour localtime.
13:52:20 <int-e> not lambdabot's fault if oerjan's client is lying
13:52:31 <oerjan> b_jonas: not \oren\ hth
13:52:52 <oerjan> or shachaf hth
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13:53:13 <oerjan> my client is quite accurate.
13:53:35 <int-e> @time shachaf
13:53:36 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Nov 29 05:53:35 2015
13:53:49 <shachaf> mine isn't hth
13:54:22 <b_jonas> oerjan: and liftrashir is from the antipodes, yeah
13:54:45 <b_jonas> s/liftrahsir/lifthrasiir/
13:54:54 <b_jonas> um
13:54:55 <b_jonas> or something
13:54:58 <b_jonas> fix spelling
13:55:14 <oerjan> i recommend tab completion hth
13:56:03 <oerjan> your client is so broken it doesn't even support VERSION tdnh
13:57:52 <FireFly> I don't think we have a lot of regulars from Norway
13:57:54 <int-e> perhaps that's intentional
13:58:03 <oerjan> <b_jonas> I don't know how russian works. <-- afaiu russian has a completely sensible system for marking stress that no one uses. probably a trap to keep foreigners from learning proper pronunciation (the stress affects _everything_ else)
13:59:29 <oerjan> also, Ё
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14:01:06 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah, basically. but also, I hear they do mark stress in a few cases where the word would be ambiguous without.
14:01:09 <b_jonas> or something.
14:01:41 <b_jonas> but where are the precomposed vowels with stress marks?
14:01:52 <oerjan> fiendish
14:02:15 <b_jonas> and don't say they're rare, because so what? unicode is full of precomposed combinations that are rare. I think it even has korean syllables that were never used.
14:02:49 <b_jonas> (although maybe there are some people who have it as their life goal to invent words with all ten thousand possibly syllables, or something.)
14:06:09 <FireFly> Meanwhile characters in APL that are clearly two characters with one overstruck on the other are all precomposed, meaning one can't easily extend it to new ones
14:06:11 <FireFly> :(
14:07:07 <b_jonas> FireFly: well, you can't have more than 2**12 characters all together even with overstriking, because there's only 12 holes in a column, right?
14:07:19 <b_jonas> so it's a bounded set, even if we haven't exhausted it all.
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14:08:34 <FireFly> hm wait, did the /bits/ in the encoding overstrike as well?
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14:08:39 <FireFly> and not just the glyphs?
14:08:50 -!- nvd has changed nick to Taneb.
14:08:58 <FireFly> or where does "12 holes in a column" come from?
14:09:11 <b_jonas> FireFly: not in APL, but in some punch card programming languages yes
14:09:17 <FireFly> Huh
14:09:24 <FireFly> Fascinating, I didn't realise that
14:13:20 <lifthrasiir> b_jonas: my survey indicates that every precomposed korean syllable is used somehow, even very infrequently (the minimum frequency of 1 over 10 years of IRC log)
14:16:05 <FireFly> Now use that corpus to produce a (syllable, count) table?
14:16:16 <FireFly> might be interesting to see which ones are least frequent
14:16:39 <lifthrasiir> FireFly: I have that, wait a min
14:17:05 <lifthrasiir> anyway, I believe that the primary rationale for the full set of 11,172 hangul syllables is that it is not easy to split "frequently used characters" from "infrequently used characters" (the set is very variable, ranging from 2,000 characters to 8,000 characters) and the split is not really beneficial at that point
14:17:29 <lifthrasiir> algorithmic assignment of hangul syllables simplified the job of every implementor a bit
14:17:59 <lifthrasiir> FireFly: http://cosmic.mearie.org/2012/06/hangeulusage/freqs.txt
14:18:18 <FireFly> Hm, what is the third column?
14:18:29 <FireFly> Oh, cumulative sum
14:18:34 <lifthrasiir> yup
14:19:45 <lifthrasiir> KS X 1001 is a widely used set of "frequent" characters (cardinality 2,350), but in my dataset the first character not in KS X 1001 was at #636
14:20:02 <lifthrasiir> ah
14:20:03 <lifthrasiir> wait
14:20:38 <lifthrasiir> my count was wrong, there *are* some precomposed hangul syllables not in my dataset
14:20:46 <lifthrasiir> I confused that with KS X 1001 characters
14:21:01 <lifthrasiir> there are 1,454 characters left unused out of 11,172 syllables
14:21:37 <FireFly> I should learn hangul, it seems so easy and systematic
14:21:50 <b_jonas> lifthrasiir: oh, being used in IRC doesn't count. people paste random stuff to IRC.
14:22:12 <FireFly> (or re-learn, if you will. I read through a description of how it works once, but didn't really make an attempt to learn it properly)
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14:22:29 <b_jonas> but sure, it's probably worth to include all them
14:22:44 <lifthrasiir> b_jonas: my analysis was that these are either mojibakes or typos (approximately equally probable)
14:22:56 <lifthrasiir> and sometimes, Aheui code :)
14:23:00 <b_jonas> ok
14:36:20 <b_jonas> I'm surprised that oren still hasn't automated drawing all ten thousand for his font though.
14:38:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CompressedFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45695&oldid=44688 * LegionMammal978 * (+62)
14:52:00 <\oren\> I'll eventally do that when I'm done with joyo kanji
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15:41:14 <lifthrasiir> compression algorithm tailored to brainfuck seems to be a niche
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16:04:38 <izabera> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/useing-youre-types-good very funny
16:09:57 <mauris_> :D
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16:31:41 <lifthrasiir> izabera: oh, great
16:33:21 <\oren\> hhahsaha
16:34:32 <\oren\> omg win98 good times
16:38:04 <\oren\> no way would win98 boot that fast tho
16:39:17 <\oren\> hahahah dependedncy injection attack
16:40:06 <\oren\> omg it's in comic sans too
16:43:59 <\oren\> b_jonas: should I put the ttf version of fecupboard20 up on my website?
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16:49:28 <\oren\> Or perhaps you'd like to ost it on your webitE?
16:49:42 <\oren\> goddamn laggy ssh
16:54:28 <\oren\> why doesn't windows support any bitmap fonts anyway?
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17:35:13 <\oren\> I have 100 characters to add left before I reach 6000
17:36:24 <quintopia> what a huge project
17:40:49 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/test-sample.png I've beaten you! (of course, kidding)
17:41:22 <lifthrasiir> I've converted the *existing* compositional font into my system
17:44:26 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: http://ix.io/mxH this comment may be useful for you
17:44:59 <\oren\> that does help
17:45:07 <lifthrasiir> the actual commercial fonts go through additional adjustments (mostly for KS X 1001 characters), but that should give a baseline
17:45:39 <Phantom_Hoover> `pastequote univers
17:45:40 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastequote: not found
17:45:46 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote univers
17:45:48 <HackEgo> 12) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <pikhq> First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. <pikhq> Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. \ 16) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <bsmntbombdood> there is plenty of room to get head twice at once \ 17) <oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste \ 18) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <oer
17:46:27 <\oren\> quintopia: it is made huger by the fact I draw every character by hand sepaaretly
17:49:16 <\oren\> (thats why in early versions there were differences among characters that are suppoesed to be the same with different accents)
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17:56:13 <\oren\> Theoretically it should be possibleto generate Chinese characters from radicals. But I've never heard of anyone doing it
18:02:23 <Melvar> To the best of my knowledge, many have tried, but nobody has made it work satisfactorily.
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18:15:38 <\oren\> ok, so today's additions bring it to 5978: 22 characters to go!!!!!!
18:20:31 <Taneb> :D
18:25:33 <lifthrasiir> 1355 characters so far here :)
18:25:40 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: you should definitely look at CHISE dataset.
18:25:51 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: sth like this: http://git.chise.org/gitweb/?p=chise/ids.git;a=blob;f=IDS-UCS-Basic.txt
18:26:39 <lifthrasiir> also, on the synthetic composition of Chinese fonts, see http://glyphwiki.org/
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19:05:42 <Sgeo> My client claimed I was K-Lined....
19:06:00 <Sgeo> Or D-lined or something
19:06:03 <Sgeo> * *** You have been D-lined
19:06:04 <Sgeo> * Closing Link: ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net (K-Lined)
19:07:09 <Sgeo> Before that, got something like "(Sorry, server is full - try later)"
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20:09:40 <jaboja> Are there any experiments with implementing "bleem"/"gird" integer (the hidden integer between 4 and 5) into an integer type?
20:15:57 <\oren\> What should the 6000th character be?
20:16:42 <izabera> the deathly hallows symbol
20:16:43 <int-e> `unidcode 𐄧
20:16:43 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unidcode: not found
20:16:49 <int-e> `unidecode 𐄧
20:16:50 <HackEgo> ​[U+10127 AEGEAN NUMBER SIX THOUSAND]
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20:30:17 <\oren\> I'm going with 飛 as in 飛ぶ
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20:38:53 <\oren\> 6000!
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20:40:11 <izabera> it's over five thousaaaand
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20:51:15 <quintopia> \oren\: how do people usually do it
20:55:04 <\oren\> I think they typically draw one e and then add the accents automatically
20:55:45 <izabera> lazypants
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21:13:13 <\oren\> and nothing of value was lost
21:13:36 <\oren\> er, wait. oerjan? NOOOOOO!!!!!!
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21:14:09 <int-e> fungot: ...
21:14:10 <fungot> int-e: time travel allows hypercomputation. i
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21:26:01 <boily> @massages-loud
21:26:01 <lambdabot> shachaf said 7h 17m 10s ago: cabot du chien
21:26:21 <boily> hellochaf. le cabot du chien, c'est pas quelque chose qu'on voit souvent.
21:28:43 <coppro> bonjouroily
21:30:45 <boily> boppronjour!
21:31:03 <boily> as-tu déjà vu le cabot d'un chien?
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21:37:30 <boily> AnothellorTest.
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21:54:49 <\oren\> !@#$%^&*()_{}|:"<>?1234567890-=[]\;',./
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22:02:41 <boily> he\\oren\. testing your font?
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22:06:56 <\oren\> testing b_jonas' font actually
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22:12:58 <izabera> what if i write a firefox extension to hide ads on $site and then i link it in the comments on $site ?
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22:13:09 <izabera> will they ban me?
22:13:41 <izabera> i mean it could be useful to others
22:13:46 <FireFly> Probably?
22:13:51 <izabera> damn
22:14:17 <FireFly> Do the ads slip through the usual adblock extensions?
22:14:24 <izabera> yep
22:14:50 <FireFly> I wonder if it's just a matter of missing lines from a blacklist
22:14:53 <FireFly> or if they do something clever
22:15:11 <izabera> no that blacklist can't work because this particular ad is hosted on their own server
22:15:23 <FireFly> Maybe one could blacklist based on path
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22:20:18 <zzo38> izabera: I expect it might depend on the site. Some sites will be fine with it. Some sites might ban you. Others might modify their site.
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22:39:49 <FireFly> I think most places would remove the comment, but I suppose it depends on the site and some might be more tolerant
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22:44:50 <oren> ittai nani ga attanda!
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22:55:44 <boily> \oren\: エッ?
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22:59:46 <\oren\> boily: 俺のIRCコンネクトが中止された
23:00:16 <boily> なるほど
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23:10:25 <Sgeo> quintopia, I don't understand ligatures
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23:14:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45696&oldid=45682 * Luis Mendo * (+465) /* Specification */
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23:18:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45697&oldid=45696 * Luis Mendo * (+0) /* Compiler */
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23:39:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45698&oldid=45693 * Hppavilion1 * (+2967) /* Bitwise */ Normal Bitwise Operators (NOT, AND, OR, XOR, NAND, NOR, XNOR)
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23:54:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45699&oldid=45698 * Hppavilion1 * (+2753) /* Bitwise */ INTERCALlian operators
23:57:18 <quintopia> boily: hello
23:57:53 <hppavilion[2]> I just submitted !eso as a bang for Duck Duck Go to autosearch the wiki
23:57:56 <boily> quintopia: hello
23:58:12 <\oren\> hipp[2]
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23:58:48 <quintopia> Sgeo: its just displaying pairs of characters differently than individual characters
23:59:15 <Sgeo> But that character that qntm mentioned isn't involved at all for the man/man and woman/woman ones, that's what confused me
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