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00:01:08 <oren> how do I un join a channel?
00:01:20 <oren> I joined #esteric by mistake
00:02:11 <oren> Also my internet was out earlier
00:02:59 <oren> why do power bars have switches that can be activated by wayward feet?
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00:16:49 <hppavilion[1]> oren: Where are your backslashes. I barely recognize you without your backslashes.
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00:50:25 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: note that it was a database *query language* based on category theory that I wanted to create.
00:50:37 <tswett> If you want to make a database, use SQLite or something.
00:51:03 <tswett> The basic idea behind the category theory of databases...
00:51:34 <tswett> Tables are objects. Columns (and things that behave like columns, such as chains of foreign keys) are arrows.
00:53:57 <tswett> So far I've primarily been considering read-only databases. I'll want to think about writable databases, too, of course, but that'll make stuff more complicated.
00:55:09 <tswett> Now, I guess it's probably best to imagine all this as taking place in the category Set. So, tables are simply thought of as being sets, and columns are simply functions.
00:55:36 <tswett> A lot of concepts that are useful in databases turn out to be fundamental concepts in category theory.
00:57:30 <tswett> A union of two queries is a "coproduct" (which really ought to just be called a "sum")... almost. The cartesian product of two queries is a product.
00:57:48 <tswett> Adding a "where" clause gives you an "equalizer".
00:58:09 <tswett> An inner join is the same thing as a "pullback".
00:58:48 <tswett> Most excitingly, a SQL query of the form "SELECT FROM a_table, another_table, ... WHERE this = that, these = those, ..." is the same thing as a "limit".
00:58:59 <tswett> Note that a limit in category theory isn't at all the same thing as a limit in... the rest of mathematics.
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01:00:41 <tswett> Though they're related, somehow, supposedly.
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01:00:52 <coppro> tswett: I'm not sure I follow at all. What are the head and tail of an arrow?
01:01:16 <tswett> You know that an arrow is the same thing as a morphism, right?
01:01:27 <tswett> The domain is the table containing the foreign key; the codomain is the table referenced by the foreign key.
01:06:53 <coppro> that makes much more sense
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02:30:51 <hppavilion[1]> I'm considering making a language called "ASM for Pythonistas"
02:32:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45740&oldid=45739 * 103.3.96.10 * (+2) /* Specification */
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03:27:45 <hppavilion[1]> I would like to see a pseudoarithmetical operation for which the identity is 2.
03:30:57 <hppavilion[1]> Without just defining an operation such that the identity is 2. That's cheating.
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04:11:15 <\oren\> @tell hppavilion[1] f(x,y) = x+y-2
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04:19:56 <hppavilion[1]> I had an idea for something eso- that could have serious uses in the real world in an actual way.
04:21:09 <hppavilion[1]> The name of the general concept is "Inappropriately Placed Assembly Languages", or "Inappropriately Placed Executables" if you prefer.
04:23:13 <hppavilion[1]> Basically, the idea is to write highly-efficient programs in ASM and a mid-level language like C or Rust that run a domain-specific bytecode, such as one for something PHP-like. The purpose of this is to make web languages compilable to highly efficient code as opposed to being interpreted, thus increasing the efficiency of infrastructure by 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.00000006%.
04:23:24 <hppavilion[1]> Of course, this might be what's done already and I might just be an idiot.
04:25:43 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: are you talking about wasm?
04:26:12 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: in development but almost yes.
04:27:04 <lifthrasiir> but I guess wasm is not really bound to the web browser
04:27:28 <hppavilion[1]> Though based on the fact that is has an AST, I don't think it's really an ASM.
04:27:32 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: to be clear, the status-quo JS interpreter already does so to some extent
04:27:49 <lifthrasiir> the role of asm.js or wasm is to guarantee that (and to cut the parsing cost)
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04:28:41 <hppavilion[1]> My idea is for server-side stuff so that you can write something to the same effect as PHP, but faster and awesomer.
04:28:44 <lifthrasiir> if you write a JS code sufficiently looks like low level code (in terms of code complexity; not to mean I/O or so), it does compile that to that level
04:29:24 <lifthrasiir> a killer feature of (mod_)php is an opcode caching, isn't it?
04:30:25 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: php source code is parsed into an internal opcode which is interpretered. mod_php caches the first step (parsing) so that an unmodified php source code can be executed much faster.
04:31:48 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: Ah, that's cool. But being able to write ASM that does PHP would still be /so cool/
04:35:24 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: What level do you program on? High or low?
04:35:27 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: I've once thought of a vectorized asm-like bytecode.
04:36:33 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: well, opcode interpretation is not very fast, but if you can delegate some specific task to a single opcode, that can be made faster
04:36:44 <lifthrasiir> actually that's a recurring theme on the physical chip
04:36:56 <lifthrasiir> (why do we have an AES round instruction on x86? :p)
04:36:57 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making an ASM called "ASM for Pythonistas", which I want to have features reminiscent of the high level while still being down low. I currently have one thing: Variable-length instructions. You have any suggestions?
04:38:12 <lifthrasiir> I wanted to make a bytecode that is relatively easy to implement (no JIT, possibly a threaded impl, but not much)
04:38:25 <lifthrasiir> and relatively fast when you use a right opcode
04:38:56 <lifthrasiir> lifting (the first layer of) loops into opcodes seems to be a fine approach
05:59:30 <hppavilion[1]> I am attempting to produce the most complete catalogue of stack manipulation operations ever: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Im3xnBO-CUeqLHWfpNfHhbfh5ZzgXvML4yFjPqXKdF0/edit#
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07:28:13 <izabera> moral dilemma: jack works with children, let's say he's a kindergarten teacher
07:28:28 <izabera> jack is found to be a pedo and he's sentenced to 20 years in prison
07:28:45 <izabera> 20 years later, jack wants his job back
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07:36:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Seriously]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45741 * Quintopia * (+14869) This took way too long.
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08:13:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45742&oldid=45687 * Quintopia * (+16) /* S */
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08:31:22 <hppavilion[1]> I wnt to learn ASM. So naturally, I'm writing an Assembly language first then learning by writing in it.
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08:56:33 <^v> hppavilion[1], haha
08:56:55 <^v> if you really want to do ASM you should learn arm/thumb
08:57:02 <^v> thats where the money is at
08:57:22 <hppavilion[1]> OR I could write my own ASM interpreter and learn that so I grasp the concepts, then get the nuances of individual ASMs later
08:58:21 <^v> mroman, lol...
08:59:07 <mroman> I mean the rules are easy
08:59:08 <^v> yeah until the platform you are on doesnt have gdb and has no emulator
08:59:26 <mroman> but to do something in it is a little bit inconvenient.
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09:01:53 <^v> but which asm
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09:02:35 <^v> like i have done a bit of x86 and there are 100,000,000 and a half ways to do everything
09:02:51 <^v> oh like gmod GPUs?
09:02:58 <^v> that one is fun
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11:15:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45743&oldid=45740 * Luis Mendo * (+0) /* Compiler */
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12:19:27 <fungot> boily: you can trivially write a screen-scraper to build a scheme48 image to start with
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12:26:18 <Taneb> Nostril is not a word I use very often
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12:42:45 <b_jonas> fungot, how is mandril a word you use very often?
12:42:45 <fungot> b_jonas: yes, also the sound is actually measured by how far it goes down for me too
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12:48:26 <b_jonas> fungot, can you scrub toilets?
12:48:27 <fungot> b_jonas: using emacs? o_o we could make a pencil&paper implementation of whirl is just a nice ui/ interface paradigm for an os class, which the environment can then read my diary using just a normal linux kernel, dude.
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13:58:11 <mroman> or is it made read-only once the runtime linker is done?
14:00:44 <b_jonas> no idea. ask the libc people.
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15:07:25 <b_jonas> fungot: yes, but Christmas in which year?
15:07:26 <fungot> b_jonas: well, there i can steal or guess ids of other users it's a problem
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16:04:27 <fungot> mroman: but i would prefer installation via curses honestly... it's not really much gain. i realize how lucky i was to call car on a string
16:04:38 <mroman> fungot: car on a string?
16:04:39 <fungot> mroman: do you have a look at it tomorrow, since i still haven't finished drawing the original problem. :p
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16:16:18 <mroman> fungot: sure I can give it a look.
16:16:18 <fungot> mroman: c ya tommorow :(
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18:15:20 <lifthrasiir> 1602 characters so far, working on Armenian script.
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18:32:41 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making an attempt to categorize all the operations in all of the languages.
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19:02:15 <fizzie> "-- we have finalized all the necessary arrangement and your fund ($5.5USD)has been approve by the border directors of Uba Bank --" well, okay, but five and a half dollars isn't really that much to celebrate for.
19:03:26 <fizzie> Also they want $85 for a "transfer clearance certificate approval", which makes me think this isn't really a good deal I'm getting.
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19:03:55 <hppavilion[1]> OK, so I have Deque, Tape, and Trape in my database of DS operations
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19:05:28 <hppavilion[1]> I've defined roughly 20-25 operations for the Deque, and can definitely think of some more
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19:41:36 <b_jonas> In the manual of a fridge and freezer, what does this instruction mean? “Do not change the specifications of this appliance.”
19:42:01 <b_jonas> There are translated versions of the manual to about nine languages if it helps.
19:53:27 <Welo> do you have Dutch?
19:53:42 <Welo> the English doesn't seem to make much sense
19:56:55 <hppavilion[1]> I have to do a speech for english on why my hobby is the best hobby
19:57:28 <hppavilion[1]> So I'm going to do a short speech then play Rebecca Black's "Friday" through windows's speech API
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20:01:06 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Well if specification means the same thing here as it does in programming, I would assume it means don't hack into their factory computers and change the way it's manufactured
20:01:49 <hppavilion[1]> But it probably doesn't, so I assume that it just means don't mess with the device because they're anti-personal freedom to screw with your own fucking property
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20:35:28 <glitchomatic> im currently building a humman act like numerical prossesor
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20:47:33 <b_jonas> Welo: dutch seems to be “De specificatie van het apparaat mag niet worden veranderd.”
20:47:57 <Welo> that means exactly the same
20:48:25 <Welo> I think that hppavilion[1] is right, and that they mean you shouldn't hack it
20:49:31 <hppavilion[1]> glitchomatic: Building a human act like numerical processor? You mean a numerical processor that behaves like a human?
20:50:28 <glitchomatic> in other word it is the main piece of a robot to react like a humman
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21:29:26 <hppavilion[1]> It'd be cool if the universe was structured such that TMs could "recur" within one another, increasing computational class each time
21:29:52 <hppavilion[1]> Essentially, if, if you replaced the FSM of a TM's state with another TM, it got more powerful
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21:34:15 <hppavilion[1]> What happens if you restrict a TM such that the state FSM can only be a decision tree?
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23:42:11 <hppavilion[1]> I want to see HaskASM. Basically, a purely-functional assembly language. Somehow.
23:43:19 <hppavilion[1]> Probably just a Haskell that is all about dos registries
23:47:15 <olsner> maybe something like reduceron assembly
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