00:00:33 hppavilion[1]: so I think theoretically a neural net should work pretty well. 00:00:42 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:00:44 But, uh... 00:00:46 OK 00:00:58 How do you feel about reimplementing more complicated versions of state-of-the-art techniques? 00:01:15 If you do that, you'll be golden. Golden, I tell you. 00:02:53 tswett: Why would I need to do that, out of curiousity? 0.0 00:03:03 I was just going to use pybrain xD 00:03:29 Well, there are lots of different flavors of neural nets. 00:03:42 The basic flavor just takes a tuple of numbers as input and spits out a tuple of numbers as output. 00:03:43 <\oren\> hippavilion[1]! 00:03:58 -!- tromp has joined. 00:04:01 <\oren\> fizzie: 0b for binary works in gcc. 00:04:47 Such a neural net is practically incapable of doing certain tasks, such as remembering information for any amount of time, or comprehending multiple instances of a class at once. 00:05:02 tswett: Of course, I want to deal with strings in some cases, so.. 00:05:04 . 00:05:22 xD 00:05:28 Yup. And the basic way to deal with strings is to use a recurrent neural net. 00:05:38 -!- v^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:05:52 Which is the sort of thing that Karpathy's char-rnn program implements. 00:06:24 tswett: And could I use PyBrain for that? 00:06:30 \oren\: Yes, but not in C. 00:06:39 Well, lemme look up PyBrain. 00:06:41 (Pybrain supports recurrent neural nets, I believe) 00:07:13 From the website: "PyBrain is a modular Machine Learning Library for Python." That right away makes me think the answer is probably yes. 00:07:14 I'm contractually obligated to bring up TensorFlow at this juncture. (Okay, not really.) 00:07:23 OK, great. 00:07:42 fizzie: Let me guess. Machine learning library? 00:07:48 For a language? 00:07:58 Perhaps one in which a person can program? 00:08:03 Well, more or less. 00:08:07 https://www.tensorflow.org/ 00:08:47 I read the introduction on the site 00:08:57 Immediately: Oh god, category theory is nagging me again 00:09:09 It's pretty new, and also pretty generic, so it might not be quite as... how should one put it, task-oriented, than some other machine learning libraries. 00:09:29 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:10:38 fizzie: Should I use it instead of pybrain? 00:10:42 That's all I need to know 00:11:30 I don't have an opinion on that, because I'm pretty sure it depends on what you'll be doing. I wouldn't be surprised if it was (possibly a lot) better performance-wise, but maybe you're okay with smaller models and/or have less data. 00:12:09 OK 00:12:15 I think I'll use TF for this 00:12:21 It looks interesting. 00:12:26 And by that I mean the site is pretty. 00:12:46 I'm not sure if TF is really a feasible thing to use here. 00:12:57 Team Fortress. 00:12:59 They've got more stuff on the tutorials section than I was expecting at this point in time. 00:13:06 Like... does TF have neural nets as a feature? 00:13:30 ach but neural nets are just linear algebra 00:13:41 tswett: It appears so 00:13:44 Well, I mean. Two of the tutorials are called "Convolutional Neural Networks" and "Recurrent Neural Networks". 00:13:45 I guess it does have a whole lot of NN-related features. 00:13:58 I'll try it out with TF 00:14:00 Whether you call them a "feature" depends on the definition. 00:15:12 I mean, the general TF framework itself is not inherently specific to neural networks, but it's certainly supposed to be convenient for them (because that's what it's used for), and hopefully there will be "standard" recipes for them. 00:16:13 But the generality does mean using it might involve more than just specifying some inputs and outputs, yes. 00:16:55 (Possibly in the form of stealing from existing examples, though.) 00:20:32 fizzie: Ugh, how do I install it on Windows 10? 00:22:58 bellonder|. have I asked you your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh? <-- i'm going to go out on a limb and say that portmantelloing newbies is not the best way of ensuring a response hth 00:23:54 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 00:24:00 oerjan: Isn't that bender| he was talking to? 00:24:07 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:24:09 yes 00:24:15 I've seen him around here before, so I don't think he was a newbie 00:24:32 but did bender| even notice he was addressed, there? 00:24:41 Fair point 00:25:12 Well, that might be a bit of much to ask, given the sort of thing it is. There's the Docker-based approach. Just as a note of caution, though, TF might really only make sense if you actually do expect to do big things. 00:27:23 (And Docker on Windows does involve running everything in a VM, which you might not prefer either.) 00:28:17 Ah 00:28:23 I'll probably just use PyBrain then 00:33:52 <\oren\> w00t! 00:34:01 <\oren\> I managed to generate one hangul! 00:34:26 <\oren\> (yes, 1 character. better than zero) 00:43:41 @tell bender| sorry for the porthello >_>'... 00:43:42 Consider it noted. 00:43:55 he\\oren\! 00:44:39 you're sorry for the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portello_(soft_drink) ? 00:45:53 hm, actually looks like that does not refer to the same drink as https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portello 00:56:48 `? headnote 1 00:56:50 Headnotes are boring. Let's go fly kites! 00:57:28 so much for that 00:57:33 shachaf: protip: `revert doesn't work to uncreate a file hth 00:57:56 `rm wisdom/headnote 1 00:57:59 No output. 00:58:04 `? headnote 1 00:58:05 headnote 1? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:58:19 Hey everyone! What's a real-world, practical example of an inner join which returns more rows than either of its input tables? 01:04:31 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:07:22 -!- tromp has joined. 01:10:18 Firellofly. the porthello, with a hello in it. 01:11:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:11:33 <\oren\> tswett: any join between two tables, on a foreign key belonging to a third table 01:12:57 -!- MDude has joined. 01:15:18 <\oren\> For example, on a hockey_player table, you could join it to itself on "team" to form a list of all pairs of teammates 01:16:04 <\oren\> tswett: is that an ok example? 01:16:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:17:05 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:19:58 -!- kragniz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:23:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DISGUSTING CHICKEN). 01:24:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:12:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:21:50 <\oren\> Man, 28 final consonant clusters is a lot! 02:22:37 <\oren\> (techinally, 27, but I'm counting "none" as one for simplicity of programming) 02:25:20 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:55:19 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: system upgrade). 03:16:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:26:16 -!- tromp has joined. 03:29:19 How should I organize the Crowdculator website? 03:30:17 Probably... one page, prefix operators. That sounds good. Second argument ignored if not filled out 03:30:26 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:44:06 -!- bender| has joined. 03:46:19 Hi bender| ! 03:46:28 I'm making a Crowdculator! 03:48:13 <\oren\> I've generated 28 hangul! 03:50:22 hello 03:52:27 -!- andrew has joined. 04:04:13 \oren\: oh, ㄱ + ㅏ + 28 finals? 04:05:25 <\oren\> yah 04:08:28 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:11:20 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:11:30 -!- andrew has joined. 04:18:10 -!- kragniz has joined. 04:22:54 -!- bender| has quit (Quit: Ping Pong Fuckout). 04:30:07 -!- mauris has joined. 04:30:20 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:36:39 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:50:55 <\oren\> I have invented the filename extension .dat.c for a C source file containing nothing but constant value declarations 04:58:44 <\oren\> Each initial needs 5 sizes, each medial 2, and the finals only one 05:02:03 -!- tromp has joined. 05:02:35 -!- kragniz has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:02:38 <\oren\> hmm, or maybe the finals should be squashed down wiht horizontal vowels? 05:04:59 -!- kragniz has joined. 05:06:08 <\oren\> Eh, i'll see how it looks then decide 05:23:32 Ugh 05:24:13 I'm trying to make it so that when a form is submitted, it POSTs the data to /calc then replaces the content of a textarea in the form to the response of that post 05:24:18 How do I go about that? 05:24:25 (I don't want it to change pages) 05:25:21 Javascript 05:25:37 Sgeo: Well duh 05:26:17 You could ... do something to prevent the form from truly submitting, then use XMLHttpRequest 05:26:30 I've got everything except one part working, it seems 05:26:37 It appears Jquery's $.post isn't calling the function as its third argument 05:26:43 I'm not getting any errors in the JS console though 05:26:55 May I take a look? 05:27:32 Sgeo: Pastebinning now 05:28:25 Sgeo: http://pastebin.com/jGXi3sga 05:28:42 Note that I'm doing copy-paste programming because this is currently more about the backend than the frontend 05:29:15 Does Submitted ever get printed to the console? 05:30:00 Sgeo: Yes 05:30:04 Every time you submit 05:30:14 And on the backend, the post is received 05:30:19 Wait, it's received 05:30:20 Hm... 05:31:05 So it's either the backend or some weird bug on the frontend 05:31:35 Sgeo: POST requests /can/ return responses, correct? 05:31:39 Small amounts 05:31:54 POST requests can return data just like GET requests, I believe 05:31:59 Because the library I was using refused to work if a post method /didn't/ return data 05:32:41 OK, on the backend there's a line of python (which DEFINITELY gets executed because the print immediately preceeding it works) that says "return web.Response(text='Done!')" 05:32:53 Which you probably don't need to understand aiohttp to get 05:33:05 Check the network tab 05:33:08 Does a response come in? 05:33:26 Nope 05:33:36 There should be a POST, which will have both the request and the response... or just the request if it failed 05:33:54 So my issue is that the function that is the third (2th) argument to $.post isn't getting called 05:34:13 It won't get called if there is no response 05:34:20 Huh 05:34:30 But there /should/ be a response, AFAICT 05:34:52 Do you see the POST request in the Network tab, at least? 05:35:23 Sgeo: I do not 05:35:37 Wait, I wasn't in the network tab 05:35:50 I was in Net under console (or whatever ctrl+shift+k's default tab is) 05:36:00 I see a POST 05:36:14 Any reply? 05:36:28 Also you're specifying it's json, I don't know what jQuery does if the result isn't json 05:36:30 Yep, the post goes through 05:36:34 http://fav.me/d9jtxyb This fractal art thing I've been playing aroudn with in paint.net, does it resemble any more well known fractals? 05:36:39 That might be the issue 05:36:50 Since it seems pretty simple to make, so i would think it would already be made at some point. 05:36:58 Sgeo: What should I try instead of JSON? 05:37:14 hppavilion[1], what's the type that the thing is returning? Just "Done!"? Then text 05:37:15 But the POST goes through, nothing comes back it appears 05:37:20 Sgeo: I believe so 05:37:54 OK, that worked 05:38:01 Except it didn't edit the TextArea 05:38:40 Sgeo: So the $('#commands').html(response); line isn't doing what I expected of it 05:40:08 THERE we go 05:40:23 $('#commands').val(response); works 05:44:14 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:47:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:47:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:51:27 Almost done! 05:51:35 Just have to hook up some Neural Nets and Traineres 05:51:38 *Trainers 06:05:48 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 06:07:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:08:48 -!- andrew has joined. 06:15:53 WHat are you working on? 06:21:08 <\oren\> 224 hangul generated! 06:22:08 -!- Melvar has joined. 06:24:54 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:25:20 -!- andrew has joined. 06:43:30 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:45:11 -!- tromp has joined. 06:49:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:49:50 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:53:37 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/allchars.htm now has some hangul (after the kanji, there's 224 of them) 06:54:42 <\oren\> I think my lines are too rounded maybe 06:55:20 -!- Welo has joined. 06:57:05 How to adjust the kerning of the fonts used in Firefox on Ubuntu? 06:58:25 <\oren\> CSS letter-spacing property? 06:59:35 -!- clog has joined. 07:00:21 No, I want to modify the font metric files globally across all programs that use them (although I don't have any other program that uses them as far as I know) 07:00:41 i just broke weechat by trying to paste one of those charactersूृ 07:01:41 Impressive 07:01:46 broke how? 07:02:53 <\oren\> 각갂갃간갅갆갇 07:03:23 <\oren\> does that break everyone's chat? 07:04:05 <\oren\> zzo38: I suppose you'd have to use fontforge to do that 07:04:28 I want to make an Esocalculator 07:04:35 Something with weird operators and syntax 07:04:40 Not sure how to go about it though 07:04:44 Anyone have any ideas? 07:05:17 <\oren\> allow problems to be stated as stoies 07:05:25 \oren\: IMPOSSIBRY 07:05:29 *IMPOSSIBRU 07:05:38 Hm... 07:05:43 I want some strange operators 07:05:48 Backslash operator is definitely an option 07:06:01 Preferably, I would have no normal operators at all 07:06:33 <\oren\> ok how about "A right triangle has two right-angle sides as lengths 4 and 5. what is the triangle's area?" 07:07:08 \oren\: That still seems incredibly difficult to parse. Roughly on the level of "Solving english" 07:07:19 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 07:07:21 Perhaps the \^ unary operator? \^x==x+(1/x) 07:08:17 Shouldn't there be a SQLite extension to edit font metrics? 07:08:22 \^5=5.2 07:08:31 <\oren\> how about "calculate the monthy payment for a 30 year mortgage on 1 million with an interest rate of 0.5 percent" 07:08:59 \oren\: I think you know the difference between reasonably solvable and borderline impossible problems. 07:08:59 There is virtual tables support. 07:09:24 <\oren\> hppavilion[2]: joke's on you! that particular one works in Hound! 07:09:32 \oren\: Dammit 07:09:36 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 07:09:49 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:10:19 Perhaps I should develop a simple DB software in python and document its development in a webpage 07:15:55 AmigaMML:XISYNTH::TeX:METAFONT 07:18:33 <\oren\> http://postimg.org/image/oxprvhumr/ 07:32:26 \oren\: Whatever message you posted it does not break my chat, although, I am using xterm. 07:32:50 This is weird 07:33:01 (And the IRC client knows nothing about Unicode; it just passes the data as is) 07:33:24 I have a form input with id "output-0.01" 07:33:36 And a Javascript line $('.output-0.01').val(response); 07:33:50 Wait, no, $('#output-0.01').val(response); 07:34:37 I know it gets executed. I know that response is equal to "Done!". It doesn't update the input 07:37:28 [wiki] [[Talk:Silly Emplosions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45842&oldid=45800 * Zzo38 * (+97) 07:38:21 Sgeo: Have any idea what's wrong? 07:38:48 [wiki] [[Talk:Silly Emplosions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45843&oldid=45842 * Zzo38 * (+77) 07:40:23 hppavilion[1], an ? 07:40:33 I think that requires an attribute to be changed? 07:40:37 Sgeo: I mean a textarea 07:40:51 Oh .val() is meant to work with too 07:42:02 Sgeo: http://pastebin.com/4nA67QVZ 07:42:36 That's the code that isn't working. Almost identical to the code I sent earlier, but being adjusted so multiple interpreters can be used based on the id of the form 07:44:16 Can you add a console.log($('#output-'+tn)) 07:44:25 To make sure it's retrieving the element properly? 07:44:42 Sgeo: I have, and it does. 07:44:46 It got removed since then 07:45:04 Oh, you want me to do it WITH the selector 07:46:11 Sgeo: Yep, it appears to get it correctly 07:46:19 Object { length: 0, prevObject: Object, context: HTMLDocument → 127.0.0.1, selector: "#output-0.01" } 07:46:28 That's not getting it correctly 07:46:32 Oh 07:46:39 length should be 1, I think 07:46:43 ? 07:46:51 Do you know what the problem could be? 07:47:46 console.log(tn) 07:47:47 (This is another just-hack-together-some-js project where the beauty lies on the backend 07:47:48 ) 07:48:17 tn = '0.01';, but OK 07:48:32 n/m 07:48:33 tn == 0.01 07:48:48 (well, as a string) 07:49:02 Does $("#output-0.01") work in the console? 07:49:16 Nope 07:49:19 ! 07:49:22 Wait, haven't tried it yhet 07:49:34 Thought you were referring to something elese 07:49:55 Object { length: 0, prevObject: Object, context: HTMLDocument → 127.0.0.1, selector: "#output-0.01" } 07:49:57 So no 07:50:05 Unless length is OK at 0 07:50:19 What does $("textarea") give for length? 07:50:27 And $("form") 07:50:48 length: 2 07:51:00 And interestingly, it lists 07:51:43 <\oren\> rrgh looks glitchy 07:52:02 And I just tried adding textarea to before #output in the thing and it didn't work 07:52:04 Huh 07:52:32 Imma try changing the text area output-0.01 to a class 07:52:41 <\oren\> 골 07:52:58 Trying it locally 07:53:07 document.getElementById works 07:53:26 Doesn't work 07:53:38 Changing it to a class, that is 07:53:40 I'll try that 07:54:09 To use jQuery functions on it, you'll need to wrap that call in $() 07:54:24 Or go native, that's what I prefer >.> 07:54:54 Sgeo: I've done native JS before. I use them pretty much interchangably when I do do JS, really it just varies by how I feel. 07:55:24 Sgeo: Yay! 07:55:28 It works! 07:55:39 hppavilion[1], I figured it out 07:55:44 Something to do with the.... OH 07:55:55 Sgeo: ? 07:55:55 That . in the number, means it's looking for a class 07:56:02 Oooooooooooooh 07:56:03 RIGHT 08:00:20 Sgeo: Now I just need to make it work for multiple forms with class="cmdwin" xD 08:02:06 <\oren\> o btw, I added 菜落葉薬表要覚観負貨貯費賞起路身軍転軽輪 08:02:08 <\oren\> 辞農験辺返追送速連進遊運達選 08:05:51 Sgeo: Have any ideas? 08:06:53 I have it working such that everything is in order EXCEPT it always puts the output one time in the same box 08:07:06 I suppose I could just have a fixed-position box that follows you as you scroll... 08:08:42 Event handler on all forms, that when invoked, get's the id and passes the id of the form's textarea to the event handler 08:09:12 Although I guess you're doing a one form many textarea thing, which is possibly not ideal, what if multiple textareas are filled in 08:09:29 Actually I have no diea what you're doing 08:13:43 Sgeo: No, many forms. 08:14:22 Each form is the software in a different stage. The forms only appear after that part of the program has been designed and implemented. 08:15:10 From the point of view of the reader 08:15:20 "So next we're going to implement relational operators" 08:15:25 Then we implement relational operators 08:15:50 Then there's a form where you can enter commands and try it out 08:16:01 Then we go to the next section 08:21:36 OK, progress can be viewed at http://206.174.0.58:81/ 09:05:35 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 09:06:03 -!- Frooxius has joined. 09:08:34 -!- clog has joined. 09:09:23 \oren\: h 09:11:06 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:14:13 \oren\: I dunno, the hangul with o in them don't look good in your font to me, because the vowel is touching the final too much. 09:15:37 \oren\: ping 09:16:09 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 09:40:53 See your opinion of what are many of my new Magic: the Gathering cards, including now I made up a few split cards too. So far there seem not the place to post user comments, except possibly on the IRC but then it isn't all store together at once 09:45:52 -!- tromp has joined. 09:50:12 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:51:34 `f2c 75 09:51:42 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: f2c: not found 09:51:49 `ftoc 75 09:51:50 75.00°F = 23.89°C 09:51:54 thx 09:54:15 Have you kept track of all of the recent comprehensive rules changes for Magic: the Gathering even if you do not play the game? 09:54:50 zzo38: I tried to, but it turns out that I missed some, so I'll have to re-read the bulletins 09:55:39 zzo38: in particular, I got very surprised that Daru Stinger had gotten errataed back a few years ago (technically that's an Oracle change, not a comp rules change) 09:58:06 They have all of the changes on Yawgatog too, which is what I checked; they have Oracle changes there too. It can be used when working with puzzles; I always include a rule datestamp on puzzles for this reason. Someone else told me they made a puzzle but then it stopped working because they changed the rules, but I already thought of this ahead of time, and yet it has not happened to me. 10:00:51 There is good reason why Daru Stinger should be changed back though, which is why it was changed back to the old version. 10:00:56 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:04:34 -!- MDude has joined. 10:04:51 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 10:05:05 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 10:05:20 -!- teuchter has joined. 10:05:29 -!- Froox has joined. 10:07:19 zzo38: I preferred him as a Human. The other daru are still Human. 10:08:32 zzo38: Making him non-human seems like a power errata, which they claim generally try to avoid unless the card would be really broken otherwise; even though they claim it was for easier playing because the reminder text on the printed card says "Soldier") 10:09:07 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 10:09:35 -!- kragniz_ has joined. 10:09:36 -!- Lord_of_- has joined. 10:09:54 I can see the problem though with the powerful of the card with amplify ability 10:09:55 And it's not only the Daru from onslaught that are Human, but the Daru Clerics from Legions. 10:09:56 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 10:10:19 zzo38: it may be more powerful than originally intended, but it's not really powerful compared to M:tG these days. 10:10:33 It could be fixed by printing that card with a different picture, is also some way 10:10:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:10:55 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:56 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:56 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:56 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:56 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:57 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:57 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:57 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:57 -!- choochter has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:57 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:58 -!- kragniz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:58 -!- Todpunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:58 -!- EgoBot has joined. 10:10:58 -!- \oren\ has joined. 10:11:09 -!- Melvar` has joined. 10:11:25 (So that no subtype other than "Soldier" would fit then?) 10:12:20 zzo38: it's still called Daru, and it would be strange anyway to have a white card to which no racial subtype fits 10:13:15 Isn't there one in one of the more modern sets though? (I think the set is Phyrexia?) 10:13:26 zzo38: one what? 10:14:03 A white creature card to which no racial subtype fits. 10:14:20 yes, there are, but they're rare 10:14:45 there's the old black Nameless Race of course, which lost its subtypes at Lorwyn 10:14:56 that one is very black 10:15:08 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:15:14 -!- ocharles__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:15:34 Yes I know, that one now has no subtype at all, but it is an old card and is black; I meant a more modern card. 10:15:48 then there are black zombies and skeletons, some of which have a race subtype, and some don't, in what seems to me like an inconsistent way 10:17:06 -!- \oren\_ has joined. 10:17:11 If the bones do not form any other creature then the other one does not seem applicable, can be one thing, but that is clearly not always the case 10:17:21 zzo38: for ghouls, sure 10:18:12 -!- ocharles__ has joined. 10:18:18 zzo38: but look at Legions of Lim-Dul, who by the flavor text are corpses animated by Lim-Dul the necromancer from the bodies of the Order of the White Shield, and the Order of the White Shield is a Human Knight. 10:18:34 yet the Legions are not Human. 10:18:35 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:18:36 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:19:03 -!- EgoBot has joined. 10:19:21 (This is the leader of the Order of the White Shield who is better known these days from Luminesce) 10:21:10 There's another Order from some other plane to confuse the matters though 10:22:09 Order of the Stars, who carry prominent shields on the art and flavor text. 10:25:59 How is the Order of the Stars relevant to that though? 10:28:34 zzo38: not really, it just confused me because it's an Order with white shields 10:28:42 also, it's a nice card 10:29:01 Yes, but their shields have stars on it 10:29:19 They are also not a knight 10:30:00 yes, and they're on Ravnica, whereas the Order of the White Shield is apparently on Dominaria or wherever Ice Age plays 10:33:16 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:36:14 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 10:49:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:02:13 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805]). 11:11:20 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 11:47:32 I have made up the calculation on the paper to figure out 1+2+4+8+...=-1 and 1+4+16+64+...=-1/3 and 1-1+1-1+1-1+...=1/2 and 1/2+1/4+1/8+1/16+1/32+...=1 11:48:38 Some people said the first few is wrong because it is a divergent series, but the same method is in use for the convergent series too it seem like? 11:54:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:03:44 -!- clog has joined. 12:12:10 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 12:12:46 Well, people are right; one usually relies on reordering terms in a series, which only works for absolutely convergent series... Otoh, f(x) = 1/(1-x) is the analytic continuation of f(x) = 1 + x + x^2 + ... beyond |x| < 1, so under some circumstances, you may get correct answers that way. 12:13:20 in general, the sum of divergent series is less defined (i.e. not as definitive as 1+1) than the sum of convergent series 12:13:51 1+2+4+8+...=-1 is one way to assign the "sum" to such divergent series 12:23:02 It seem to me that in order to reorder terms it must be done like: a+b+c+d+...=(b+c+d+...)+a=(c+d+...)+a+b=(a+c+d+...)+b=b+a+c+d+... but this won't let you to reorder or regroup infinite sets of terms as the rules for addition don't do stuff like that. 12:25:24 is there a smart way to solve lights out? 12:26:38 well, there are boring algorithms that depend on knowing information for specific fiekd sizes 12:27:14 izabera: sure; at its heart it's a system of linear equations over Z_2. 12:27:37 interesting approach 12:31:28 Oh and the system is described by a band matrix (since no row (or column) depends only on decisions in the neighbouring rows (or columns), so for an n x m rectangle, rather than working with matrices of dimension nm x nm, one can quickly reduce that to n x n (or m x m, whichever is smaller). 12:32:18 (for humans: once you've fixed the choices for the bottom row, all other choices are forced) 12:41:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:51:09 i've read what to do on a 5x5 board, but what if it's a NxM 12:51:17 and what if i need an optimal solution 13:08:17 damn I had some code for this, somewhere... but probably gave it a meaningful filename like "t.py" (and I don't even remember whether it was python or some other programming language)... and quite possibly lost it 13:13:44 -!- Lord_of_- has quit (Excess Flood). 13:15:06 -!- Lord_of_- has joined. 13:17:42 -!- mauris has joined. 13:56:21 does finding the solution has to be efficient? 14:00:06 basic idea: start toggling from line 2 on exactly where there is light on the line above it 14:00:14 remember where you toggled 14:00:38 that will result in a board with only light in the lowest line 14:02:59 now, for each light in the bottom row make a temporary board with only that light, drag it up the same way, you will end up with toggles you can do from up to down in the original board 14:03:23 add every toggle per position mod 2 14:04:34 -!- boily has joined. 14:16:08 first time running my washing machine on extra small, cold water, delicate cycle. 14:16:15 it makes weird noises. 14:17:55 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:19:07 <\oren\_> good mroing 14:19:30 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45844&oldid=45841 * Luis Mendo * (+54) /* Specification */ 14:30:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:38:16 he\\oren\_. 14:49:14 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 15:00:51 myname: just solve the linear equation, in the case the transition matrix is invertible. In the case it is only semi-invertible, you can solve the independent subspace 15:00:57 helloily 15:12:42 quinthellopia. 15:23:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:28:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMPRECISE CHICKEN). 15:38:28 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 15:38:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:41:01 -!- gniourf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:43:32 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:54:20 `? hamiltonian 15:54:29 hamiltonian? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:54:36 `? eto 15:54:37 eto? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:54:41 `? hari 15:54:42 hari? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:54:53 `? jander 15:54:55 jander? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:55:14 `learn Jander was killed, or deactivated permanently, depending on which side you ask. 15:55:18 Learned 'jander': Jander was killed, or deactivated permanently, depending on which side you ask. 15:56:21 -!- kragniz_ has changed nick to kragniz. 15:56:40 `learn Jander was murdered, or deactivated permanently, depending on which side you ask. 15:56:44 Learned 'jander': Jander was murdered, or deactivated permanently, depending on which side you ask. 15:57:45 `? loodun 15:57:47 loodun? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:57:51 `? antyok 15:57:52 antyok? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:00:29 `learn Loodun Antyok demonstrates how to play a lawful character the exact opposite way from the lawful stupid archetype. 16:00:33 Learned 'loodun': Loodun Antyok demonstrates how to play a lawful character the exact opposite way from the lawful stupid archetype. 16:00:39 `? loodun 16:00:41 Loodun Antyok demonstrates how to play a lawful character the exact opposite way from the lawful stupid archetype. 16:00:44 `? antyok 16:00:45 antyok? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:01:42 Oh no, do Hamiltonian circuits have anything to to with the Formula One series? 16:02:02 int-e: and quantum mechanics, and quaternions. 16:02:14 int-e: they're all named of the same brilliant mathematician 16:03:19 `learn Hari wears an identical suit every day. Or the same suit? The latter glitch would be a sign of adjustments on the Matrix. 16:03:22 Learned 'hari': Hari wears an identical suit every day. Or the same suit? The latter glitch would be a sign of adjustments on the Matrix. 16:03:52 `learn Eto is the ageless laughing first minister. 16:03:56 Learned 'eto': Eto is the ageless laughing first minister. 16:05:10 b_jonas: I think you missed the bad joke. 16:08:29 Unless I'm missing a connection between William Rowan and Lewis Carl Davidson... hmm. 16:11:09 int-e: yeah, I know. 16:11:50 `? andrew 16:11:51 andrew? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:11:54 -!- tromp has joined. 16:30:42 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45845&oldid=45844 * Luis Mendo * (-3343) /* Specification */ 16:32:12 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45846&oldid=45845 * Luis Mendo * (-415) /* Compiler */ 16:33:53 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45847&oldid=45846 * Luis Mendo * (+1) /* Compiler */ 16:34:34 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45848&oldid=45847 * Luis Mendo * (+11) /* Specification */ 16:34:48 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45849&oldid=45848 * Luis Mendo * (+9) /* Compiler */ 16:34:53 `? avis 16:34:55 avis? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:34:55 `? lardner 16:34:56 lardner? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:35:14 `? travis 16:35:15 travis? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:35:50 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45850&oldid=45849 * Luis Mendo * (+6) /* Specification */ 16:36:04 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45851&oldid=45850 * Luis Mendo * (+0) /* Compiler */ 16:36:21 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45852&oldid=45851 * Luis Mendo * (+0) /* Compiler */ 16:37:34 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45853&oldid=45852 * Luis Mendo * (-1) /* Introduction */ 16:37:52 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45854&oldid=45853 * Luis Mendo * (-6) /* Specification */ 16:39:12 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45855&oldid=45854 * Luis Mendo * (+25) 16:44:01 `? min 16:44:03 min? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:44:03 `? max 16:44:04 max? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:44:06 `? frexp 16:44:07 frexp? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:54:47 -!- Lord_of_- has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 16:54:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 16:54:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 16:54:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 16:54:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 16:57:58 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45856&oldid=45566 * Luis Mendo * (+32) Added entry for MATL language 16:59:44 [wiki] [[User:Luis Mendo]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45857 * Luis Mendo * (+101) Created page with "I have created the esolang [[MATL]] (2015), a language based on MATLAB and suitable for code golfing." 17:02:17 [wiki] [[User:Luis Mendo]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45858&oldid=45857 * Luis Mendo * (+38) 17:03:52 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:11:03 -!- tromp has joined. 17:11:19 -!- mauris_ has joined. 17:14:46 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:19:54 <\oren\_> Ok, so I'm making the finals more sqiashed downward, so that the horizontal medials will fit 17:20:40 \oren\_: no, no, 17:20:53 \oren\_: instead, move the medials so they touch in the direction where they're smaller 17:21:28 <\oren\_> ah 17:21:40 <\oren\_> maybe that will work 17:21:40 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45859&oldid=45855 * Luis Mendo * (+29) /* Specification */ 17:21:44 \oren\_: that is, "o" and "yo" should be able to touch some initials, whereas "u" and "yu" should be able to touch the finals 17:22:03 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45860&oldid=45859 * Luis Mendo * (+29) /* Compiler */ 17:22:31 \oren\_: I also tried to comment on the Deseret letters on your font: 17:22:50 \oren\_: the letter "s" (both upper and lower case) is mirrored from how it should be, I believe, 17:23:27 \oren\_: and in the fontdemo.html, you should change the line breaks so that the letters take up 4 lines instead of 5, and each corresponding lower case letter is two lines below the upper case on 17:24:02 <\oren\_> .. .. 17:24:11 <\oren\_> huh, I can't paste one 17:24:21 \oren\_: but I could be wrong. I don't like Deseret. 17:24:28 <\oren\_> .. 17:24:32 <\oren\_> rerrh 17:25:16 <\oren\_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_alphabet#/media/File:Deseret_second_book.jpg <-- I think I used this amage as a reference 17:25:29 `perl -ebinmode STDOUT,"encoding(utf8)"; print "\x{1041d}" 17:25:31 𐐝 17:26:44 <\oren\_> I'm seeing a cyrillic Н 17:27:10 \oren\_: that's \x{41d} 17:27:10 <\oren\_> I think irssi fucks it 17:27:14 what's with your terminal? 17:27:18 `perl -ebinmode STDOUT,"encoding(utf8)"; print "\x{41d}" 17:27:19 Н 17:27:31 -!- JesseH has joined. 17:27:38 <\oren\_> `unidecode Н 17:27:39 [U+041D CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER EN] 17:28:00 <\oren\_> I copied that from the deseret ess 17:28:31 <\oren\_> `unidecode .. 17:28:32 [U+002E FULL STOP] [U+002E FULL STOP] 17:28:57 <\oren\_> and on input it appears to replace the surrogate pairs with dots 17:29:47 \oren\_: according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deseret_capital_Es.svg , the letter s has the left end connected to the top loop, and the right end to the bottom loop 17:30:06 \oren\_: in your font it sort of seems like the opposite, though it's hard to tell from those few pixels 17:31:43 <\oren\_> I see, I'll see what I can do 17:34:13 <\oren\_> oh its god damn tmux fucking up unicide 17:34:33 <\oren\_> tmux uses 16 bit unicode 17:34:58 -!- Lymee has joined. 17:35:26 -!- jameseb- has joined. 17:35:38 <\oren\_> and this bug will be solved essentially between in 10 years and never 17:37:44 \oren\_: use screen instead. (a recent version, not the fifteen year buggy old version that spawned the development of tmux as an alternative.) 17:40:33 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 17:40:34 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 17:40:34 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split). 17:40:34 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 17:40:36 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 17:40:36 -!- jameseb has quit (*.net *.split). 17:40:37 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 17:40:40 -!- Lymee has changed nick to Lymia. 17:40:49 -!- rodgort has joined. 17:44:17 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 17:45:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:46:45 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:55:36 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:08:10 Unicode is especially terrible for any kind of grid-based display, but I thought of some way similar to what someone else has suggested, for "universal terminal-based character coding", although the width of a string is now a bit more complicated than just strlen, rather each byte has a width of 1 or 0 depending on the value of that byte, therefore allowing many more single-width non-ASCII characters. 18:09:48