< 1451175118 565870 :zgrep_!zgrep@zgrep.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1451175143 748300 :augur_!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451175146 86938 :MoALTz_!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451175148 783352 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1451175167 823321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the people who invented TECO Unitarian Universalist? < 1451175189 796080 :Warrigal!~tswett@192.241.237.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451175206 254093 :nisstyre_!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1451175336 991064 :yule!~canaima@186-88-127-42.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451175369 64128 :yule!~canaima@186-88-127-42.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1451175538 276497 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451175538 276577 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451175538 276602 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451175538 435340 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451175538 594027 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451175538 594094 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451175538 594119 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451175577 691885 :zgrep_!zgrep@zgrep.org NICK :zgrep < 1451175825 985530 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451176734 764946 :hppavilion[1]!48236c44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.35.108.68 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1451177098 739612 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`danddreclist 73 < 1451177109 744335 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :danddreclist 73: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex < 1451177213 68477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: Do you want to s/nooodl/mauris/ danddreclist? < 1451177241 14616 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can s/nooodl // it, hth < 1451177250 24833 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it yourself hth < 1451177269 534890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :g/nooodl/d < 1451177416 995462 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you could edit it by yourself instead according to how you would want your name in there or not, but the URL and filename should not be adjusted because the current one is correct. < 1451177668 284910 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to know in case you would know even, or someone else, comparing character in the level20.tex (including the one with no character sheet given) with colors of mana of Magic: the Gathering cards. Do you know? < 1451177762 571409 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1451177800 661405 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451178141 835895 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.joyent.com/ someone explain me why both bare metal and vm score 1/4 on networking but triton scores 1 < 1451178147 327178 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does that make sense < 1451178267 63063 :Vrittis!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1451178598 352920 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're explaining it but that table is totally misleading <.< < 1451182155 180836 :Tat-Tvam-Asi!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi JOIN :#esoteric < 1451182933 617581 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@193.86.27.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451183396 326569 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I try never to underestimate the pathological nature of C/C++. Then again, this particular case might be because I spent so long dealing with bools that were four bytes. Or two bytes and stored as 0 / !0 rather than 0 / 1." < 1451183805 584695 :jaboja!~jaboja@eru75.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451183852 643871 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1451184270 67898 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1451184271 562972 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm/An ATM is when you're withdrawing money right now at a machine that will steal your relevant info. < 1451185248 250264 :jaboja64!~jaboja@erx124.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451185469 846699 :jaboja!~jaboja@eru75.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451186271 910420 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1451186506 576021 :Tat-Tvam-Asi!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1451187038 758910 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451187044 975330 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think I'll implement an online semi-automated Nomic based on your "Propositional Nomic" < 1451187648 863264 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1451187790 557158 :jaboja64!~jaboja@erx124.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451187962 249183 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1451187963 885111 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocean/The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping. < 1451187980 420359 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: TRANSMORPHIC CHICKEN < 1451188048 678154 :andrew!~andrew@61.141.94.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451189439 769590 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1451190220 589892 :nitrixmas!~nitrix@unaffiliated/nitrix NICK :nitrix < 1451190485 598225 :dcentral!~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:2d0b:65b9:18c4:f9bb QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451191165 615005 :dcentral!~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:2d0b:65b9:18c4:f9bb JOIN :#esoteric < 1451196210 234801 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1451196909 95484 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1451198535 822739 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1451198620 670857 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1451198714 772594 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451198718 861388 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1451198724 276660 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get PLY to work with unicode < 1451199355 640731 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1451199369 834415 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1451200878 933652 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451200923 783396 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1451200928 722824 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1451204846 775220 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451207358 761220 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1451208115 581498 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1451208980 152161 :MoALTz_!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl NICK :MoALTz < 1451210924 168238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1451211540 555785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1451212710 623863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451216772 573473 :Welo!~hato@546A4E77.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451216796 669268 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1451219408 207233 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention Robozzle has a JS version now? < 1451219413 239599 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's likely to become the main version? < 1451219419 483476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.robozzle.com/beta/ < 1451219795 784472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1451220089 987403 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh < 1451220265 298534 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it have a js version like years? < 1451220636 638019 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname, a terrible one < 1451220653 484288 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doas work < 1451220670 496900 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imho, js implies terrible < 1451220731 653122 :sat-buddhi!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi JOIN :#esoteric < 1451220988 691371 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Javagony14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46000 5* 03Flawr 5* (+656) 10Created page with "'''Javagony''' is an OOP programming language derived from Java. The only differences to Java are that following statements are ''not'' available in Javagony: for (){} if (..." < 1451221223 233504 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Javagony14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46001&oldid=46000 5* 03Flawr 5* (+364) 10 < 1451221341 63595 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Javagony14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46002&oldid=46001 5* 03Flawr 5* (+1) 10 < 1451221354 569837 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Javagony14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46003&oldid=46002 5* 03Flawr 5* (+3) 10 < 1451221495 573859 :zgrep!zgrep@zgrep.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451221543 22138 :SirCmpwn!~sircmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451221559 745022 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1451221577 800357 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1451221936 986695 :Welo!~hato@546A4E77.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1451222094 493489 :andrew!~andrew@61.141.94.190 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1451223312 596902 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily fungot: write is a function of one argument. what's a tlo? a Three Letter Optimisation? death is too much tourtière. <-- actually death is having to fix wikipedia and wiktionary's inconsistent etymologies of tourtière hth < 1451223312 819289 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where should i put there :) i want the standard i/ o < 1451223313 52088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1451223384 523967 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is slightly disturbed that there are edits to his wiktionary account that he cannot understand how he has made
< 1451223427 141910 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the merging of global accounts went slightly wrong, and _also_ something fishy happened back in 2007. < 1451223504 953322 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily also death is having to paste è because his keyboard refuses to recognize the obvious keypresses < 1451223505 525587 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1451223516 866961 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily *my < 1451223517 418660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1451223535 953288 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451223597 506750 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the bright side, if there _was_ another wikt:user:oerjan back in 2007, he's not done anything since. < 1451223764 180512 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily oh wait, i was pressing the wrong key < 1451223764 668862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1451223795 377016 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily still doesn't work in the browser, though. < 1451223795 866418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1451223875 416887 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask boily what does (tsé.) mean < 1451223875 972884 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1451224095 876966 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1451224994 958443 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1451225037 681030 :SirCmpwn!~sircmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1451225295 27818 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451225380 653692 :SirCmpwn!~sircmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451225624 243275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451225836 774359 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451225946 380218 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1451226013 945031 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i check if a function supports a flag that's only available in a few versions of linux? < 1451226794 316799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: is the function a system call? most will return EINVAL if they don't understand an argument < 1451226798 916129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could try it and see what happens < 1451226814 86798 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks! < 1451226840 164111 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1451226852 482092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's also ENOSYS, for when it's the function itself that isn't understood) < 1451226864 548696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this generally only happens if running very new syscalls) < 1451226866 172329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas < 1451227093 619573 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1451227638 685698 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1451227926 691301 :SirCmpwn!~sircmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1451228007 693434 :TodPunk!~Tod@67-2-194-175.slkc.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something. < 1451228341 798410 :sat-buddhi!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1451228558 652635 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1451229560 330603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, Perl 6 has been released < 1451229582 201362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that NetHack 3.6.0 and Duke Nukem Forever were also released recentlyish < 1451229591 413960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that we're going to need a new metaphor for vaporware < 1451229621 82674 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :B-) < 1451229623 143689 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1451229705 263685 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whether GNU/Hurd will become stable soon too ;)
< 1451229709 825167 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1451229739 756909 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, though "vaporware" is still fine as a name. < 1451229762 706375 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use "cbvapor" as the codename for my eventual rewrite of the cbstream bot. < 1451229769 617107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU/Hurd does actually work IIRC, if you have a sufficiently specific configuration < 1451229785 45207 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know. < 1451229793 211741 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and wait, gimp has a development release from the new branch, have you seen that? < 1451229802 548665 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we're in the future or an alternate timeline or something < 1451229818 550177 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inkscape has released a stable release recently. < 1451229834 768534 :amca!~amca@CPE-110-147-166-198.nhl8.cht.bigpond.net.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1451229870 125091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use gimp or inkscape a whole lot, not because they're bad, just because I haven't needed to < 1451229872 571753 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and ImageMagick is seriously working on a new branch where they have impossible goals, even more impossible than gimp. < 1451229883 656115 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use inkscape, but I do use gimp sometimes. < 1451229883 862166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what I mostly use gimp for is filling in PDFs by adding text to them < 1451229887 890328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its UI for that is terrible :-( < 1451229905 235407 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you tried upgrading to a newer version? the UI sometimes becomes better, and sometimes worse. < 1451229921 639971 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find the gimp ui terrible, only hard to learn, but I'm past the hard to learn part. < 1451229922 326413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm using the Ubuntu package manager's version < 1451229967 52330 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to download an English manual for my washing machine from LG's homepage and failed. But I realized I have a printed English manual, I just didn't find it last time, which is why I read the Hungarian. < 1451229986 699668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: presumably the problem is that the Hungarian is badly translated? < 1451229994 31795 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still hurts how difficult it is sometimes to get manuals even for not too old household appliances. < 1451230010 684624 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's my default assumption. this one isn't even _too_ bad, compared to some others. < 1451230021 172798 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did have some mistakes, but was mostly readable. < 1451230043 945551 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1451230073 498498 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it claimed that the floor should not be slanted to more than some impossibly small angle, but that was obviously a mistake, they wanted to say that you should adjust the adjustable feet so that the machine isn't slanted more than tha. < 1451230104 133341 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at the English manual now to see what it says. < 1451230143 972962 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, sometimes the English manual is badly translated too, written by Chinese people who don't speak enough English, < 1451230161 232086 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the English manuals or software UIs are never worse than the Hungarian ones as far as I've seen. < 1451230224 856157 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. The English manual also says “Installation place requirement. Level floor : Allowable slope under entire washer is 1°” < 1451230242 539728 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's obviously unsatisfiable in a bathroom. < 1451230253 349082 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the manual does talk about the adjustable legs. < 1451230314 498013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, “adjustable feet” here < 1451230350 910895 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is one of those statements they put in so that they can deny acting on the warranty if they feel like it. < 1451230488 830976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes bathrooms have level raised pedestal-type things for washers. < 1451230513 848255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, sometimes. That's necessary on some floors. < 1451230553 492024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I adjusted and re-adjusted and so on the legs for the washer we had in Finland, but it still kept moving around when doing the spin cycles. < 1451230556 643919 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lg.com/hu/termektamogatas/lg-F12B8ND1 has a link to manuals, but they're broken. < 1451230601 492715 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently no matter how level the machine itself was, having a slope + vibration + slippery tiles was enough to have it start moving. < 1451230626 352095 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, and a pedestal helps because you can fix the machine on it easier than on the floor itself. < 1451230637 152392 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that depends on the machine and possibly other things. < 1451230648 351543 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some older washing machines shake a lot. < 1451230694 604562 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, now I know which program I need for synthetic clothes, so I'm off getting the curtains down the rods and washing them. < 1451230697 750744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :LG's washers have that fancy thing where you can call the support, hold the phone near the washer, press a button combination on it and have it whistle diagnostic information with modulated tunes over the phone. < 1451230759 685288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that reminds me of the GRUB2 option to output all text it prints through the PC speakers as morse code < 1451230779 469108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also an app that can listen to it and suggest simple solutions. < 1451230805 78907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if someone's reverse-engineered the protocol already. < 1451230939 750626 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, some of them < 1451230957 200403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one has that option too < 1451230972 218848 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a one-way modem in it < 1451230997 716428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's just a modulator < 1451230998 631877 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :using probably the same speaker it uses to beep when the washing is complete < 1451231005 670129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("modem" is short for "modulator-demodulator") < 1451231020 797686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a "mom"? < 1451231036 875531 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably implemented mostly in software these days < 1451231041 277736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My washer has a mom in it" can lead to incorrect interpretations. < 1451231048 357524 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1451231085 293605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just "mo" I guess, I think the final "m" of "modem" comes from the third letter of "demodulator" < 1451231092 764293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1451231115 487980 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has a four digit display, but they don't trust me of being able to read and type a few dozen digits from the screen to the web probably. < 1451231127 178260 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really the target user for this type of washing machine. < 1451231149 387974 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least for some features of it. < 1451231156 243730 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it has programs I'll probably never use. < 1451231213 167688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got to have that product differentiation somehow, and it's easy to do with programs. < 1451231221 976024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, spin RPM numbers. < 1451231258 977699 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1451231286 473344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Washer A with 15 programs and 1500 RPM is objectively better than washer B with 12 programs and 1400 RPM by 3 programs and 100 RPMs. < 1451231307 135902 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1451231333 738051 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think it was the dishwasher for which I don't have an English manual. < 1451231355 899956 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that one isn't too important. The dishwasher barely needs a manual, once it's set up for the water hardness. < 1451231400 614494 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ncxibbrwpolsucds QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451231445 226254 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had a dishwasher. I'm a dishwisher. < 1451231452 48576 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1451231452 575732 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 15m 39s ago: fungot: write is a function of one argument. what's a tlo? a Three Letter Optimisation? death is too much tourtière. <-- actually death is having to fix wikipedia and wiktionary's inconsistent etymologies of tourtière hth < 1451231452 734614 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 12m 27s ago: also death is having to paste è because his keyboard refuses to recognize the obvious keypresses < 1451231452 734691 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 12m 15s ago: *my < 1451231452 734722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 8m 7s ago: oh wait, i was pressing the wrong key < 1451231452 734754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 7m 36s ago: still doesn't work in the browser, though. < 1451231454 638350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan asked 2h 6m 16s ago: what does (tsé.) mean < 1451231516 550905 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan qc:tsé is about en:y'know. < 1451231517 60780 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1451231730 628358 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I started the confusingly named program. < 1451231872 446666 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jhellonas. still adapting the new house to your needs? < 1451231883 179598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't realise b_jonas had a new house < 1451232093 151931 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an apartment, not a whole house. < 1451232095 809147 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yes, thank you < 1451232198 352107 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to call two different servicemen tomorrow to schedule some minor repairs that weren't so urgent that I call them at Christmas or weekend, < 1451232231 311698 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a third minor repair I'll be able to do myself but I have to buy some screw ring thingy for it. < 1451232285 966509 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My general enjoying the house was paused for Christmas due to family programs. < 1451232291 125569 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm home now at least. < 1451232491 624512 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have family programs on your dishwasher? neat. < 1451232499 4071 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not dishwasher. < 1451232537 471806 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only travel was so easy. A family meeting involves airplane and car rides. < 1451232555 105131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :international or within the country? < 1451232560 587192 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :International. < 1451232583 963911 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's almost no airplane traffic within Hungary.) < 1451232590 831333 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Car trips within the country. < 1451232637 365336 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother and her wife lives in Sweden on a permanent basis, but they visit often, and so far have visited on each Christmas. < 1451232662 81278 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still afraid to imagine what Christmas would be like when they are unable to visit. < 1451232676 303720 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it will certainly happen eventually. < 1451232692 138282 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, that's similar for my dad's family, because for some reason he decided to move to England in the 90s < 1451232697 601046 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Australia < 1451232706 704289 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's worse. < 1451232723 913339 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-uxudofztfoqpcujf JOIN :#esoteric < 1451232736 328078 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can at least drive from Sweden, with two drivers alternating and one sleep in between. < 1451232784 392232 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Airplane is cheaper and faster, but driving gets you to transfer a car and optionally a lots of luggage. < 1451232826 13931 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, one of my cousins is trying to move here as well < 1451232881 177542 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear there are some other ways to transfer lots of personal belongings long distance, involving some sort of container or ship, but they're worth only if you move with a whole family to Israel or some such cases. < 1451232918 568049 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what we did when we lived in Australia for a year < 1451232924 647050 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, there are also trains to Sweden, but they're horribly expensive for some reason. < 1451232949 994019 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they go through russia? < 1451232963 366642 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no, there's a bridge from Denmark now < 1451232968 952000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are there no trains there? < 1451232981 420154 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's a road bridge < 1451232987 265829 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me check < 1451232993 597195 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, yeah, it has railway as well < 1451232996 295473 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98resund_Bridge < 1451233004 943864 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even without, you can switch from train to the ferry. < 1451233012 668063 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to switch trains multiple times anyway. < 1451233094 106363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trains are ridiculously expensive even within England where there's no borders to worry about < 1451233108 833481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, trains are a comfortable way to travel to Italy, Slovenian, Macedonia, Bulgaria, though bus is also available and cheaper but much less comfy; and I hear trains are even a borderline viable option to Switzerland. < 1451233129 117176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one journey I've been thinking about that costs £90 by train but only about £10 by coach going in one direction (but £40 by coach going in the other direction) < 1451233143 714519 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's the other thing, for some reason international trains are much more expensive than trains within Hungary. < 1451233149 762390 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And trains within Hungary aren't cheap either. < 1451233170 105446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's partly to do with zone boundaries or something like that I think < 1451233181 727437 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of going interrailing next autumn < 1451233182 281494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can spend £6.40 to get a card that allows me to use any public transport in the West Midlands for one day < 1451233187 29608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which kind-of puts a cap on the train prices < 1451233198 237783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go even slightly outside the West Midlands and the prices are a lot worse < 1451233204 616879 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trains here are so expensive that if you have more than one full price adult traveling, and it's not all within Budapest or agglomeration, then driving a car is always a much better option than trains or buses. < 1451233212 263525 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just horrible. < 1451233216 904044 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish trains and buses were cheaper. < 1451233259 223655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a bus to get into work today < 1451233262 904197 :TodPunk!~Tod@67-2-194-175.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451233273 631255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the way train and bus pricing works in the UK is weird < 1451233282 367097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the buses, a day ticket usually costs less than two singles < 1451233299 600736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that day tickets are purchased almost exclusively unless you're only going in one direction for some reason < 1451233308 921261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, on the trains, most discounts only apply to return tickets < 1451233338 325940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that if you're doing a journey for which discounts apply, which is most of them, returns are /much/ better value than singles, and sometimes actually cheaper (i.e. to do a single journey you buy a return ticket and then don't use one half) < 1451233349 784734 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it's so expensive that some physically handicapped people earn some money from having people hire them to travel with them, who then illegally buy reduced fare tickets for serving as a person accompanying the disabled person (who doesn't actually need this). < 1451233379 478356 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just generally book in advance and hope < 1451233401 933218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :day tickets on the bus in the West Midlands are currently £4 per day if you buy them in bulk (i.e. you have to buy them in advance but they aren't marked against any particular day) < 1451233425 327866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc a bus pass is cheaper if you travel most days of the year, but not if you're an occasional traveller (like me), because you have to pay even for the days you aren't travelling < 1451233430 320329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you travel on the same train or bus line regularly, then buying a pass is cheaper than driving a car, but you have to live in the right place where going to work with a train everyday is a good option. < 1451233431 321366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: right, advance tickets are weird < 1451233437 91811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they're much cheaper and sometimes they aren't any cheaper < 1451233468 992579 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people outside big cities simply don't live in the right place, which results in masses of unemployed people who can't work because they don't have they money to commute to the nearest city to get work. < 1451233502 980496 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1451233566 990655 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one case where occasonaly travel on train is actually well worth: it's when you live in Budapest and have a local bus pass (transport pass valid for metro, trams, etc), < 1451233603 84586 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you can also use trains within the borders of Budapest for free with the pass, and for some locations they're actually better than taking the bus if you time your travel for the train timetable. < 1451233626 227518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right, I've never had one of those passes for any "long" time period – not cost effective – but I've bought them for single days on occasion < 1451233657 896365 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this rarely comes up because it works out only if you travel _between_ two suitable locations. There's basically no one location within the borders of Budapest from which going into the city is generally the best by train. < 1451233670 39838 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric : Technically, there are also trains to Sweden, but they're horribly expensive for some reason. ← yeah, the train situation in Sweden is pretty messed up, even within the country < 1451233701 778144 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to want to trabel between two outskirt lobes of Budapest, so that you skip going into the centre by the train.. < 1451233702 383394 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sometimes it's cheaper or about on par cost-wise to fly instead < 1451233751 796033 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I hear trains in Sweden is complicated because there's multiple different types of trains and buses, differing on whether they're fixed price or cheaper to book earlier, and other factors. < 1451233795 438515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: huh, in Birmingham, the vast majority of the train lines go through the centre, if you want to go somewhere by train that isn't at approximately the same angle from the centre you'll probably have to change trains /in/ the centre < 1451233807 859481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are trains or buses here that you want to book in advance or they get filled and you can't get a ticket, but I can't think of any where the price is actually cheaper if you buy much in advance. < 1451233833 95086 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, that's sort of why it comes up often. < 1451233840 603789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we have a distinction between buses which are typically local and can't be booked in advance, and coaches which are longer-distance and you have to book in advance < 1451233893 744546 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But basically, the outskirts of Pest is split to like four lobes, such that each is served by buses from a different big station or two, < 1451233899 314653 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in general it's cheaper to buy train tickets early, but I'm not really sure what decides the price < 1451233946 324335 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely the northernmost part is served from the north part of the metro 3, this is separated by train lines blocking much of car and bus traffic from the north middle lobe, < 1451233965 941840 :MDream!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1451233973 558360 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew someone who ordered tickets from Göteborg to Uppsala but only travelled to Stockholm (which the train goes through) because it was cheaper that way, though, which is a bit curious < 1451233980 107565 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is served by buses and these days partially by metro 4, which is blocked from the middle lobe by another set of train lines unpassable by car, < 1451234011 640248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the big south lobe is served by buses from Örs Vezér tér (the terminus of metro 2) and by the south end of metro 3 (Határ út and Kőbánya Kispest). < 1451234026 385812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: the rules about which tickets let you make which journies on UK trains are definitely ontopic for #esoteric :-) < 1451234032 466706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not /actually/ Turing-complete < 1451234035 960096 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1451234059 83857 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the trick is that if you want to go from the north middle lobe to the south lobe, then it _can_ be worth to take trains that pass through from north to south, < 1451234067 229758 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could they ever deny you to leave at an earlier stop than your destination? < 1451234084 323313 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it seems like the kind of thing that would be hard to disallow < 1451234114 784330 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whose goal is actually to go from the city centre at Nyugati pályaudvar to various parts outside Budapest through multiple rail lines going out of the cith on the southern lobe. < 1451234176 610073 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's possible that there are actually six lobes, the southern ones being served by Ráckevei HÉV and Csepeli HÉV, but luckily I'm not familiar enough with that.) < 1451234257 392210 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also two tangential tram lines (tram 1 and tram 3) that somewhat connect the three lobes, and sometimes they're worth to take, but rarely, < 1451234290 681950 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unless the start or destination location is close to them, it's just faster to go through the center most of the times. < 1451234293 967086 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, we barely have any trams at all < 1451234338 300394 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the special case when you want to go on a route where you don't have to go up stairs at all, such as when I took luggage in a huge bag so heavy from the old home to the new home that I literally couldn't take it up the stairs: < 1451234360 745077 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I took tram 3, which is slower, but has a low floor, and gives a route with no underpasses. < 1451234363 518010 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1451234391 100809 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't really required, we could just have took the stuff by car, but I liked the challenge and wanted to try how viable this route was. < 1451234409 405103 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tram is only like 10 or 20 minutes slower than going through the center with the metro. < 1451234444 616346 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because I have to walk the last one station instead of taking the metro. < 1451234485 862078 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Apparently the official numbers for the tram lines here are 7, 7N, 12, 21, 22 (though they're all referred to by other names in practice) < 1451234505 556199 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, in the one rare case where I must carry lots of luggage, namely going to where the bus starts for a ski trip, if a car isn't available, I can pay for a taxi. < 1451234510 247290 :diginet_!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :Quit: diginet has quit! < 1451234533 751617 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451234665 905393 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yeah, the HÉV has numeric identifiers these days, namely H5, H6, H7, H8, H9, but these numbers are new so people haven't learnt them yet, and just use the destinations as a name like we used to. < 1451234680 101362 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense < 1451234743 336572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :These names were assigned when BKV decided to reassign numbers to lots of lines at the same time in such a way that there are only two namespaces, one for (bus, tram, streetcar) and one for (metro, HÉV, ship) rather than four like there used to be. < 1451234751 636955 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use colours for the subway, the destination for local rail, and then a bunch of lines that have their own names for historical reason < 1451234752 710048 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasons* < 1451234763 780275 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sure, there's still a few exceptions. < 1451234798 495925 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they all have internal numbers that nobody knows < 1451234835 694040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The metros have always had numbers, but also colors at the same time. The Libegő and the Budavári Sikló still don't have names, because they're so unique. The fogaskerekű (cogway railway) does have a number now, but I'm not sure if people use it, because it's also a unique and recognizable type of vehicle. < 1451234857 925859 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, cogway railway < 1451234859 321595 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1451234889 252505 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and at the renamespacing, they also made another change which is _much_ more significant than eliminating the clashing numbers (bus 3 and tram 3; bus 73 and streetcar 73). < 1451234890 563533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could they ever deny you to leave at an earlier stop than your destination? ← in most cases in the UK you're actually allowed to leave at an earlier stop than your destination, then get back on a later train and continue to your destination; this makes optimal train ticket planning very complex < 1451234967 168462 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old numbering used to have variant bus numbers for "express" buses that are red numbers in a rectangular frame; or, when that can't be presented on the media, a number in rectangular frame in the normal foreground color; or, when that can't be presented either, the number followed by "GY" (standing for "gyors"); < 1451234995 343671 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this system is easy for locals who are used to it, but cryptic to tourists passing by, so now we don't have it. < 1451235017 461163 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1451235071 831199 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our busses are red or blue, with the blue ones being "express" busses of sorts with fewer stops and usually connecting several key locations when the metro doesn't cut it < 1451235084 921781 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those buses now have a number followed by the letter "E". So now almost all lines are identified by a number of at least three digits, followed by one of the suffixes "E" or sometimes "A" or rarely "B" or "C" (I'm not sure if those are in use still), or prefix "M" (for metro, or metro replacement bus line), or "V" (for tram replacement bus line), < 1451235099 662936 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a system to which numbers correspond to blue busses, but it's rather cryptic and I don't think most people know about it < 1451235103 517453 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "H" (for HÉV or HÉV replacement bus line), or "D" (for ship). < 1451235114 233504 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them are three-digit numbers where the center digit is a 7 < 1451235196 646433 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and only the numbers 1 to 299 are in use, plus the numbers 900 to 999 for nightly buses, because 300 to 899 are reserved for bus interurban bus lines outside Budapest, not ran by BKK. < 1451235232 312259 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a nice well designed system, though there's still some occasional exceptions where they manage to break it. < 1451235247 896383 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly temporary ones, but still. < 1451235260 474677 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, "temporary" can mean it's only for three years here. < 1451235360 214838 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "B" still exists as a suffix in at least one case. < 1451235414 304632 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C" always used to exist for temporary bus lines going to cementaries on --11-01 (when many people visit cementaries), and only if "A" and "B" was already used for that number. < 1451235461 152795 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and before the namespacing put night buses to 900..999, they used to have the suffix "É", at the same time when a few express buses had the suffix "E" instead or a red number with frame. < 1451235522 109681 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the namespacing is well worth, even though I have a little grief that bus line 3 is no longer called that, it's been renamed to line 33, when IMO it would have deserved "3" much more than the tram line. < 1451235584 381187 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does actually make sense rationally, for despite tram line 3 being new, it is a very important tram line, whereas bus line 3 is only important for having had that number for a long time. < 1451235710 119742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how easy is it to distinguish an E from an É? < 1451235712 928977 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The namespacing didn't completely renumber everything from the star, so there's still lots of historical reasons for why certain lines have certain numbers. < 1451235760 140426 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: depends on the design of the sign. The night bus signs in bus stops are easy to recognize, for they have the number on inverted background, and an owl icon. < 1451235845 609210 :dcentral!~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:2d0b:65b9:18c4:f9bb QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1451236296 980903 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the bus lines are many and change more often than the lines of other vehicles. < 1451236343 420512 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although we are living in interesting times where the govt is actually building tram linse in Buda to fix its traffic. < 1451236410 699309 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might even be ready in a year or two. < 1451236519 851432 :dcentral!~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:6c4d:bd06:3694:2599 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451236752 494181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not unheard of to have train tickets where you can't get off at an intermediate stop. I know VR (the Finnish train operator) website at least earlier let you buy a ticket for a decidedly non-optimal "go from A to B via C" (where A and B are relatively near, but C is far away) connection that was significantly cheaper than tickets from A to C (because the price was derived from the ... < 1451236758 508676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... from/to distance, not the total route) and I believe you couldn't legally use that ticket to go from A to C only. < 1451236773 276402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :People still did that, since it's hard to enforce. < 1451236814 133480 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland doesn't generally do gates at stations, the tickets are only checked on the train. < 1451236823 187699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK, it's kind-of random where tickets will be checked < 1451236824 642228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If at all.) < 1451236830 859190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :station gates and on-train both happen sporadically and randomly < 1451236840 158316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(very large stations are the most likely to enforce a check at the gates) < 1451236851 225450 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite sure we don't have that here. As long as the train has a normal stop somewhere where you could get off with _some_ ticket, you're allowed to get off with any ticket. < 1451236879 850436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think every time we've departed from London Euston there's been a ticket check at the station. < 1451236905 870691 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The train tickets are sold for a route and priced on route distance (or at least the official measurement of route distances in the book), and unlike tickets for any other vehicle, you can even get off trains and get on another train continuing the same route with a train ticket. < 1451236979 845222 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas tickets inside Budapest are mostly unit tickets for getting on once and getting off once, regardless distance, except that you're allowed to change from a line to or from a bus replacing it, or change between two metros free. < 1451236983 608855 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese trains are pretty consistently station-gated < 1451236997 134917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the fact about London buses that you can use a travel card of any zone for any bus line, no matter where it goes. I've got a zone 1/2 travelcard for my commute, so bus travel is essentially free. < 1451237001 308068 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :most travel is done using a preloaded card, which is charged based on where you enter and exit < 1451237017 260322 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So with a local ticket inside Budapest, you definitely aren't allowed to get off and get on another vehicle. < 1451237027 511276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't like the fact that there's no validity time for a bus ticket; if you have to change buses, it costs exactly twice as much as taking one bus.) < 1451237037 15251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and long-distance trains are the most likely to check on the train < 1451237048 629829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the normal technique here is to buy a day ticket rather than a single < 1451237067 633326 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :long-distance trains will only come round and check if they are an express, which carries an additional charge. < 1451237069 108495 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's time limits on the tickets, but they're for catching cheaters who try to reuse the ticket. If you use the ticket in the permitted way, then you can't run out of the time limit. < 1451237086 933156 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pay on the train though < 1451237089 151079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the London Underground uses station gate checks consistently < 1451237095 898649 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, London's Oyster has a "daily cap" thing, and there's a special bus-only cap that's lower than the normal daily cap. < 1451237122 975851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's £4.40, and a single bus trip is £1.50. < 1451237151 341696 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time I didn't see an operating gate in Japan was when it was late at night in a small station, so they didn't have a staff member on hand so they just left the gate open. But in Japan, the amount of abuse that would see is pretty low < 1451237160 484071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's fixed £4.40 if you do anything involving at least 3 buses within a day; but a round-trip somewhere is still £3.00 if you can manage to pick a route that doesn't involve changing buses. < 1451237162 934619 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are monthly passes, very popular, plus daily tickets and a few other options used mostly by visitors who travel a lot in a short span. < 1451237223 13304 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so it's like a daily ticket chosen automatically after the fact? that's nice, but it works only for an electronic system, not for the paper-based tickets here. < 1451237249 724372 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451237347 108157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes. With the extra twist that there are different caps for different combinations of zones, and it automatically computes for you the lowest amount of money you could be paying. (As in, "use the cap for zones 1-3 and exclude your one zone 1-6 trip, because it's cheaper than the zone 1-6 cap even though that would include the one trip".) < 1451237372 757833 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nice. < 1451237393 160268 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and also off-peak/on-peak caps. < 1451237394 500482 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are always rumours about plans to get a partly electronic system here, but it's not quite clear to me how such a thing could work. < 1451237442 779217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: we have a partly electronic system in Birmingham at the moment < 1451237451 149061 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The supposedly machine-readable barcodes that have been printed on every ticket and pass for a while probably have the goal of easing compatibility with an eventual electronic system. < 1451237458 35719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works like this: you can buy tickets on the bus by paying cash; or you can use one of three types of electronic card < 1451237467 285543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them substitutes for cash, you pre-load it with money and use it to pay for the tickets < 1451237484 948252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is loaded with day tickets in advance, and automatically uses one if you haven't used it yet that day < 1451237501 126966 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, in worst case, you could have machines that automatically replace paper tickets and passes with whatever comes after, by reading the barcodes. Pity they're printed unreadable on a few passes, but they fixed that quickly. < 1451237507 102078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of them is a season ticket that lets you travel on all forms of public transport for free for a year (and accordingly is very expensive) < 1451237514 862539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, might just be all buses for a year < 1451237515 21684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've also got a weekly cap if you're paying with a contactless credit/debit card, which for some reason doesn't apply to the regular Oyster card. Possibly they're trying to promote the use of contactless -- at least they keep having ads about it everywhere. < 1451237516 944201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, I don't have one < 1451237546 89695 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aoOh, I think I've seen such a thing in Sweden, where there are both pre-paid electronic cards and buying tickets in place on buses. < 1451237554 429131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Any contactless credit/debit card works "automatically" as a travel card, you can even register it on the website and all.) < 1451237619 540742 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :On certain bus and trolley lines, you can buy tickets at the driver or controller here too, but that only works on low traffic lines. It checks out, since the high traffic lines are mostly hub lines that stop at locations where you can buy a ticket outside the bus anyway. < 1451237705 113081 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real problem is high traffic bus or tram lines. It seems hard to imagine a full automatic system there, although you could still have an electronic system with the controllers carrying electronic gadgets. For metros, it _might_ be just about possible to install automatic gates, although there'll be some throughput problems. < 1451237758 666386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :London's pretty busy, and they manage to do that. < 1451237774 49085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't pay bus fares with anything else than the card. < 1451237797 425244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The busy routes have card readers also on the middle doors, so that not everyone has to get in through the front door. < 1451237837 371895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the single-fare-no-options thing makes it easier, you just shove your card towards the machine and wait until it goes beep. < 1451237857 904853 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be worth to do this even for the metros, because they have lots of traffic. < 1451237888 260716 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So even if everywhere else the tickets just work the same as now, with controllers checking it, only using a mobile phone instead of manual inspection, it could be an improvement. < 1451237888 683096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the one in Helsinki, you have to select the kind of ticket you want, which makes it a lot slower. (Plus the devices themselves are pretty bad -- especially older people can't actually press the buttons with sufficient strenght for it to register.) < 1451237903 366617 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch < 1451237928 18483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll be replacing the whole system next year, hopefully the new ones will be better. < 1451237934 577535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, 2017. < 1451237952 174471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've been postponing it. Any sort of public project that involves computers is always behind schedule and over budget. < 1451237979 412613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the one in Birmingham, you tell the bus driver what you want, who presses the buttons < 1451237983 291633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then place the card on the card reader < 1451237989 882447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably this is to work around people who are bad at pressing buttons < 1451237999 701859 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The vending machines here aren't ideal too. Some people have trouble using the interface, but there's usually people around who can help. Any smartphone user youth can use it, as much as it works at least. There's still places where humans are selling tickets, but in fewer locations with shorter opening times. < 1451238020 561802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I had huge problems buying a train ticket in London < 1451238022 794413 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://papunet.net/sites/papunet.net/files/kuvapankki/matkakortin_lukija.jpg <-- the card interfaces in Helsinki. < 1451238031 226950 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real problem with the current system the passes printed by this machine. < 1451238043 444375 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're supposed to hold the card near the middle of the green cross-shaped thing, and press the button while still keeping the card sufficiently near. < 1451238049 523734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had more than one sort of machine, the sort that worked out what sort of ticket you needed for you wouldn't let me type my destination station because one of the letter keys was broken < 1451238051 626720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all practical purposes, the bottom slot is not used for anything. < 1451238055 610846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly intuitive. < 1451238058 387078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to use a machine where you had to know the ticket you needed in advance < 1451238086 414421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some very special groups like HSL employees have chip cards that can go to the lower slot, I believe, but that's a negligible fraction.) < 1451238105 311869 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike the previous tickets and passes of various colors and pre-printed templates, all currently sold tickets are printed by a printer to a single type of roll of paper, just like how the train tickets work these days, only this paper roll has fancy holographic strip and other supposedly hard to counterfeit features: < 1451238133 446552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, and the buttons have no "travel" at all.) < 1451238143 524462 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that there's no point counterfeiting the paper itself, because you can just erase the printed text and print new tickets on the paper. < 1451238248 709927 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now the passes are easier to counterfeit, and the controllers have a harder time recognizing it because it's all just black icons and text printed on the same kind of paper. < 1451238274 20021 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I have to trim a few millimiters of the pass so it fits in a card sized holder. < 1451238315 912876 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The printing is some sort of laser, not heat printer, because some passes must be legible for slightly over a year. < 1451238318 973301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK train tickets are on a weird sort of cardboard, and also have a magnetic stripe < 1451238333 407742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seem to be printed by a wide number of different printers < 1451238342 997403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can compare two tickets bought from different ticket machines and the ink looks noticeably different < 1451238349 749778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the magnetic stripe is used for all machine-reading of them) < 1451238405 329926 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We used to have various different formats of train tickets, until they brought in this new system some years ago. Now we only have two format: normal, and printed by the controller on the train (which differs so they can carry a lighter machine and lighter paper). < 1451238449 51920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and also the Budapest bus passes can be bought from either the BKK (local transport company) and the MÁV (train company) functionally identical but with different formats. < 1451238482 396951 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there's yet another format I forgot: < 1451238490 704489 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can buy train tickets you can print at home. < 1451238582 813003 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that here for many train companies (at least long-distance trains), but not all of them. < 1451238596 883899 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yvowxjlyerjdvoao QUIT :Excess Flood < 1451238606 403081 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tuahbizpjutoieph JOIN :#esoteric < 1451238633 975479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've done print-at-home tickets for Virgin, but I think ScotRail tickets we needed to collect at our local train station. < 1451238648 298687 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Collect" == print out from the normal ticket machines with the reservation code. < 1451238658 691024 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can print tickets for home only for certain types of tickets. I'm not familiar with the details. < 1451238669 958989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least you could do that at any National Rail station machine, and not only at stations where ScotRail operates.) < 1451238696 510817 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other formats of the tickets were used in small stations and on the train back when computers were expensive so some stations sold tickets completely manually without a printer. < 1451238737 369128 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are pre-paid tickets you collect at the station for big stations, but then the ticket is of just the ordinary format, the same you buy from operators or machines. < 1451238762 336736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some tickets you can buy locally from vending machines on the big stations, paying with card or cash. < 1451238790 317614 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can buy those only for certain destinations, so you still have to buy most tickets from operators. < 1451238822 670699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing with different train companies here still feels a bit weird, because in Finland VR has a monopoly. (They're planning to open that up for competition, at least for some routes.) < 1451238871 327867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK has too many train companies < 1451238901 231165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :different companies own the trains, to the companies that own the track (although only one company owns any significant amount of track), to the companies that actually run the trains < 1451238930 450907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are a huge range of organizations you can buy train tickets from (including all the train running operators, and a few independent ones), and these train tickets will work on all the appropriate trains < 1451238945 982087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is apparently a very complex formula used to compensate the various companies accordingly from the train ticket revenue < 1451238975 315175 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've got some sort of administrative split between the thing that owns and maintains the tracks vs. the thing that owns the trains, but since VR Group (the train operator) is still fully owned by the state, it doesn't really matter that much. < 1451239039 11362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the track maintenance is currently not run as a company but as a government agency. But it used to be part of a company that owned the train operator company. Or something like that. < 1451239040 732219 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have like two or three extra train companies, but it's not a competition anywhere, the extra companies are just serving a particular area of the country. < 1451239058 734816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a passenger, it all works basically as if there was just one company. < 1451239069 676957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only a few routes in the UK that have company competition < 1451239092 521235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually I think there are /three/ companies who offer Birmingham to London routes; two of them use basically the same route but stop at different sets of intermediate stations, the third uses a totally different route) < 1451239101 719236 :jaboja!~jaboja@erx124.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451239154 188622 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also multiple bus companies, all regional, and the biggest one probably serves less than half of the country. < 1451239156 594969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've mostly been buying tickets from the "correct" companies, though I think we went Blackpool-London with a ticket bought from Virgin that combined a Northern and a Virgin segment. < 1451239185 945909 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What You say for the UK is pretty much true for my Part of Europe (Germany) as well. < 1451239198 494728 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least i guess so. < 1451239207 354819 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few of the bigger towns have local buses, and Miskolc and Szeged even has local tram lines. < 1451239209 400841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virgin's just started a handy thing where they'll auto-compensate your credit card if the train is late enough (30 minutes for 50% off, 60 minutes for 100% off, 120 minutes for 100% off for the whole ticket of a return). < 1451239220 783887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally you'd need to fill forms and such. < 1451239238 901643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you buy a ticket from the company who operates the train, you often get bonuses like a guaranteed seat or choice of seat < 1451239245 646287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in terms of pricing, though, normally just better service < 1451239259 654217 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some lines between towns, there's actually a competition between bus and train, mind you. < 1451239266 58463 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's one form of competition. < 1451239277 401074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The seat selection thing is strange too, I don't think we've ever gotten a proper "here's a map of the train, pick your seats" seat selection for a train trip here. < 1451239285 819159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's been the norm in Finland for quite a few years by now. < 1451239326 257909 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virgin's "seat selection" seems to mean giving it some attributes about what sort of seats you want, and then getting some sort of a seat assignment back. < 1451239394 872340 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for Budapest city to the airport, there's a three-wise competition between public transport (bus plus metro, or bus only at night; the least convenient and slowest, but cheapest), taxi (the fastest and most convenient), and bus that takes multiple people directly from or to their destination (cheaper than taxi only if you're travelling alone, but slower). < 1451239408 777595 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ taxi (the fastest and most convenient), and bus that takes multiple people directly from or to their destination (cheaper than taxi only if you're travelling alone, but slower). < 1451239454 404363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ScotRail's website was very indecipherable when it came to reserved seatings ("sometimes we have them, sometimes we don't, you can't reserve seats online ever, good luck") -- turns out the Oban-to-Glasgow train was (a) very full, and (b) reserved seats only, and we hadn't gone to do seat reservations at the train station. Had some trouble getting a seat at all. < 1451239476 241722 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't that done deliberately? there's no seat selection for trains even with reserved seats here, and I don't think there could be, because if there was, everyone travelling alone (the majority of people) would hog one of a double seat first, and then people travelling in pairs or larger groups couldn't book seats close to each other. < 1451239497 722270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be. I don't know how the Finnish system accounts for that. < 1451239515 351445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it doesn't show (all) empty double seats as available if you're buying a single ticket. < 1451239535 658908 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That certainly happens all the time on trams and buses everywhere when there are no reserved seats, unless there's so few people that less than one third of the seats are occupied. < 1451239546 547169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm assuming too much of it, and they just live with that. < 1451239556 78248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't happen in cinemas because much fewer people go to a cinema alone than on a bus. < 1451239589 970532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cinema seats are also generally in long rows, and it doesn't matter so much if you pick a single seat at the edge of the currently reserved central block. < 1451239595 460408 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't get fragmented that way so badly. < 1451239645 523542 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get on a train with two small children, and enough single seats, then people will generally happily move to give you a triple place. But that can't work with reserved tickets. < 1451239721 630411 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, and on certain trains that go _towards_ Budapest or towards a big city, people don't get on all at the same time, but gradually fill the train. < 1451239910 737627 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1451239999 487251 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once i drank too much before the Cinema because i decided to watch a Movie in a small amount of Time, and it was good that i had a Seat near the Edge. B-) < 1451240056 53437 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: are you writing with German capitals? < 1451240069 83397 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes. < 1451240090 272003 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably „before“ has the wrong Meaning, too. < 1451240092 223343 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or could have. < 1451240097 439209 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant before in Time. < 1451240099 291524 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in Space. < 1451240316 164599 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see that used often in English with otherwise standard orthography. < 1451240343 178885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you can often figure out who's written a sentence from their writing quirks < 1451240350 957967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic capitalizes nouns, you sometimes get gendered pronouns confused < 1451240355 998189 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure. or their programming quirks. < 1451240359 317545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably have something that identifies me too < 1451240364 6806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming quirks is easier < 1451240365 685123 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1451240375 724134 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes !Anonymous on IRCnet ;)
< 1451240393 609324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C++ programs, I put tons of asserts, and if(false) or if(true) blocks. < 1451240420 107289 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use arrays and explicit array indexes a lot. < 1451240457 879213 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm adamant in the int *foo; spacing < 1451240477 754995 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451240512 321576 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :I glue * to the Variable-Name instead of the Type too. < 1451240609 343927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I use int *const foo; spacing too < 1451240618 451595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw an autoindentor use it and decided that I liked it < 1451240627 707449 :zadock!~outsider@109.166.130.146 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451240633 905652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it shows quite clearly that the const is attached to the * (i.e. the pointer is const) < 1451240743 805856 :zadock!~outsider@109.166.130.146 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1451240801 541738 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense for an old C programmer. Less so for a C++ programmer who writes stuff like array, unique_ptr, observer_ptr. < 1451241204 82560 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ puts way more Load on the Lexer and/or Parser. < 1451241220 229042 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than C. < 1451241245 216647 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly < 1451241341 133216 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does that extend to `int *const *foo`? Hmm. I've never known where to put the mid-'const', but that doesn't look half bad. < 1451241357 981656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, "int *const *foo" < 1451241407 466468 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes. and even to int * < 1451241410 216563 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo() < 1451241410 740773 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1451241429 441325 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a newline between the * and the foo so the defined name gets in the first column < 1451241431 679812 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :„cdecl“ and „cundecl“ are good Friends. B-) < 1451241441 443762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do the first-column names, so that's not an issue for me. < 1451241461 648297 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Somehow looks more like K&R-Style instead of like modern ANSI. < 1451241462 307447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I've started to use ` to quote things when talking about C, because it doesn't have a meaning there. It's not even in the basic character set. < 1451241482 917817 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The ANSI-Stuff i can remember at the Moment) < 1451241512 964236 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like `„` and `“`. Unicode rocks. B) < 1451241516 422475 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, `foo()` is pretty non-modern; no prototype. < 1451241524 787521 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well; non-modern, or C++. < 1451241554 890461 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Lack of the Prototype yes, but the Newline looked old to me. < 1451241566 457691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: I often use « » for quoting code because anything in ASCII can be confused for part of what's being quoted < 1451241572 220390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Perl 6 uses «» as quote marks < 1451241580 319007 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :B-) < 1451241910 513421 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: the problem with „”»« quotation marks is that all of »«“ are used as both opening quotation marks in some language and closing quotation marks in some other language. < 1451241938 756280 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So while they clearly delimit a quotation, in some contexts it could be confusing whether they're starting or ending marks. < 1451242086 519105 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you're quoting in technical contexts where the quoted text may start or end with whitespace. < 1451242126 529220 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily, I think „” is unambiguous, and so are Japanese quotation marks. < 1451242136 836148 :sat-buddhi!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi JOIN :#esoteric < 1451242262 714675 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure about the former. < 1451242271 511913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese quotation marks would look ridiculous if backwards < 1451242295 88002 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and single quotation marks can be ambiguous with apostrophes. < 1451242322 997036 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that's when printed. In handwriting, there's much more ambiguities of course.) < 1451242459 991842 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Are not `„“` like `»«`? < 1451242479 97315 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: in what sense? < 1451242491 842372 :sat-buddhi!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi NICK :turiya < 1451242492 207665 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good Question. < 1451242610 408383 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is confused.
< 1451242616 490000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the quotation mark pairs used in European languages are “” „” „“ »« «» and some variants with single instead of double, but with various whitespace conventions, but I have the feeling there's some combination I'm missing < 1451242629 508808 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check en.wikipedia. < 1451242678 431597 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, there's also straight quotation marks "" and the singles of that. < 1451242766 723798 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently ”” and »» also exists. < 1451242924 994105 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451243053 629163 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me count how many combinations that gives. “” „” „“ ”” »« «» »» ‘’ ‚’ ’’ ›‹ ‹› ›› except that the last one might not actually exist, and that about three of those exist with whitespace on both sides in French. < 1451243069 123039 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and "" '' too. < 1451243094 821612 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about 17 combinations. < 1451243124 941661 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this means there's no European quotation mark that's unambiguously closing a quote, never opening it. < 1451243365 112588 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since these competing standards are so confusing, let's invent a new kind of quotation mark that's better than all of them! < 1451243426 20225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about () < 1451243428 35872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in Underload < 1451243688 759101 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, if you go to programming languages, then there are more < 1451243759 326536 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ ]] [=[ ]=] etc in Lua, """ """ or ''' ''' in Python, R"( )" R"*( )*" etc in modern C++, () and two other pairs I don't remember in postscript < 1451244236 711737 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ATZ14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46004&oldid=42095 5* 0392.225.12.43 5* (+10) 10stub < 1451244298 987008 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ATZ14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46005&oldid=46004 5* 0392.225.12.43 5* (-12) 10 < 1451244417 94043 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Church-Turing thesis14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46006&oldid=23582 5* 0392.225.12.43 5* (+9) 10 < 1451244831 653100 :turiya!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1451246198 651949 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-2-250.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1451246249 146212 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-2-250.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1451246253 550870 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-2-250.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1451246730 759359 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451246783 350453 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i entered a 3SP program in a PPCG challenge < 1451246794 768309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: neat; link? < 1451246806 304917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I didn't realise that other people were programming 3SP nowadays < 1451246816 701269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got as far as sketch-proving it was TC and then I stopped < 1451246834 224126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, TC and output-only BFC < 1451246929 801615 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGDC starts in a week, that's great < 1451247065 737395 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1451247128 5759 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Japanese quotations mark format is easily enough though < 1451247160 599362 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it? < 1451247173 296310 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:  < 1451247180 986103 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but Japanese quotation marks are for Kanji style grid cells, they don't mesh well with Latin letter text < 1451247181 977668 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/67795/47050 < 1451247193 562582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1451247214 737489 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451247290 180621 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are correct < 1451247377 888058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: also how much effort did it take to get the program to halt? < 1451247412 390550 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Three Star Programmer program? wow! < 1451247419 856327 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's actual programs in that language now? < 1451247432 184992 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is crazy < 1451247475 212927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I have a sketch of an algo for compiling cyclic tag to 3SP < 1451247481 14815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't handle I/O so I have no way to test it < 1451247497 556559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working on a way to do I/O too but got distracted and ended up inventing Last ReSort instead < 1451247534 514993 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see < 1451247552 116927 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is the translation polynomial time? < 1451247589 528301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each cyclic tag cycle takes one 3SP cycle < 1451247605 627747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the length of that cycle might not be linear in the size of the original cyclic tag program < 1451247612 527343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember whether it is or not < 1451247623 883445 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing Propositional Nomic :) < 1451247660 624147 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but is the runtime still polynomial in the original rumtime? and do you need only polynomial time to generate the 3sp source code from the cyclic tag source code? < 1451247667 243297 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: two commands i think. it turned out to be enough to just point reg0 somewhere else < 1451247689 822177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the compiler is O(n) < 1451247693 209142 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the point where cyclic tag is involved, I no longer care much about being linear, because it's probably a lost cause anyway, as opposed to just polynomial. < 1451247698 614177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ah right < 1451247700 730753 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1451247707 934495 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know 3sp is so programmable. < 1451247726 268771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I got disappointed in it when I realised it was too easy < 1451247815 534494 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see if Rosetta Code has 3SP programs on it yet < 1451247850 700362 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not yet < 1451247888 405778 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[073SP14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46007 5* 03B jonas 5* (+35) 10Redirected page to [[Three Star Programmer]] < 1451249183 831460 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ideas for the totally unstructured langusge yet < 1451249445 178551 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to buy a compact camera, but it's hard to compare them, so I should figure out some tie-breaker feature to compare the similar cameras. Sensitivity bracketing could be such a feature, if it is available in some of the compact cameras of the category I want. < 1451249481 242086 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do camera manufacturers call that these days? Something with "multi" I think. < 1451249621 559129 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to find out how each brand calls this feature first. < 1451249682 528514 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just buy the cheapest. < 1451249862 767179 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1451250455 897273 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, apparently that feature is called "AE Bracketing". < 1451250536 526231 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AE" might stand for "adjust exposure" or it might not, I'm not sure < 1451250544 662676 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe "auto exposure" < 1451251626 62378 :Welo!~hato@546A4E77.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1451252695 778971 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1451252721 243243 :TodPunk!~Tod@67-2-194-175.slkc.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something. < 1451252748 819018 :TodPunk!~Tod@67-2-194-175.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451253182 848096 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1451253185 361822 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/HexHive/printbf < 1451253196 407757 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck implemented in a single printf string < 1451253345 502192 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1451253528 627990 :TodPunk!~Tod@67-2-194-175.slkc.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1451254025 22682 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there good software for SQL templating in a webpage like PHP is doing, but each block can contain a text part as well (to do a kind of foreach loop templating) and you can declare error handler and so on too < 1451254103 162463 :TodPunk!~Tod@67-2-194-175.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451254330 777170 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1451254389 566171 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1451254539 298366 :hppavilion[2]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451254767 517637 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hi < 1451255044 92114 :hppavilion[2]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Quit: WALRUS MAAAAAAAAAAAAN < 1451255082 916568 :hppavilion[1]!ceae003a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.174.0.58 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1451255107 95193 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451255269 131077 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1451257160 14790 :augur_!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1451257292 695643 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1451257478 713824 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1451257700 163913 :Welo!~hato@546A4E77.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1451257991 708457 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1451259015 485849 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanhelloa, hppavellon[1], chelloppro, hezzo38, QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAH! < 1451259151 835171 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1451259280 444292 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1451260326 850118 :sat-buddhi!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi JOIN :#esoteric < 1451260419 677478 :sat-buddhi!~sat-buddh@unaffiliated/sat-buddhi NICK :turiya