00:02:19 <hppavilion[1]> FreeFull: Well yeah. How else would it work?
00:02:34 <hppavilion[1]> FreeFull: Have any ideas for esoteric hashing functions?
00:02:47 <hppavilion[1]> My personal favorite is the Large Hashon Collider
00:02:55 <hppavilion[1]> `return 0` is its output
00:02:56 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: return: not found
00:04:51 <hppavilion[1]> There's also the "Just pretend it's an int" hashing function for floats
00:06:00 <FreeFull> hppavilion[1]: I think it'd be fun to write a C function which has a return 0; at the end, no other return statements, and yet returns something different from 0
00:07:15 <hppavilion[1]> FreeFull: Is that even possible?
00:07:40 <FreeFull> I think so, if you try hard enough
00:08:05 <FreeFull> The problem is that executable memory usually isn't writeable
00:08:09 <FreeFull> So you'd need to do something about that
00:12:37 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Are there any number systems that do /not/ include the Reflexive Property? <hppavilion[1]> Or the transitive property? <-- IEEE 754 HTH
00:12:48 <fizzie> You could also go by the route of doing something that's both undefined and sufficiently confusing to the compiler.
00:13:05 <shachaf> oerjan: hppavilion[1] said "number systems" hth
00:13:21 <hppavilion[1]> Number systems. Like the reals or complexes.
00:13:22 <oerjan> or wait, maybe it's still transitive.
00:13:43 <shachaf> which relation are you talking about? equality?
00:13:46 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: "or" was boolean there
00:13:50 <oerjan> i'm sure IEEE 754 counts as a number system in some horrible reality.
00:13:52 <shachaf> well, "equality"
00:14:01 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, I already talked about that on ##math
00:14:38 <hppavilion[1]> Reflexive Property of >
00:14:42 <oerjan> btw i think that "nullity" thing that went around a few years ago counts?
00:14:59 <shachaf> scowllity
00:15:00 <hppavilion[1]> For any number a, a>a
00:15:07 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: nullity?
00:16:36 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it was a rather lousy attempt to define division by 0 that someone made.  honestly i don't think i actually read it, but i recall it mentioned it wasn't even equal to itself.
00:16:59 <shachaf> oerjan: you mean it was a solution to a 1200-year-old problem
00:17:09 <oerjan> OKAY
00:17:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Would you happen to have a linky for a poor, bad-at-googling soul?
00:17:26 * oerjan points hppavilion[1] to shachaf as the expert
00:17:33 <shachaf> http://www.bbc.co.uk/berkshire/content/articles/2006/12/06/divide_zero_feature.shtml hth
00:17:43 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: how can i have a link when i never read it that makes no sense hth
00:17:53 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh god
00:17:57 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Anderson_(computer_scientist)#Transreal_arithmetic
00:17:59 <hppavilion[1]> Caversham actually taught it in schools
00:18:04 <shachaf> maybe this belongs in the other #esoteric
00:18:14 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, you said you /didn't/ read it
00:19:52 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh god, he added infinity and minus infinity (and nullity)
00:20:03 <hppavilion[1]> But he didn't add, for example, 2*infinity or sqrt(infinity)
00:20:06 <hppavilion[1]> Idiot
00:21:01 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
00:21:11 <shachaf> there's nothing wrong with compactifications, yo
00:21:30 <oerjan> for a better attempt, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_theory
00:21:44 <oerjan> that's not messing with equality, though.
00:21:45 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_real_number_line and stuff, man
00:23:09 <hppavilion[1]> Mathematics needs a symbol for "x is not necessarily equal to y, but it could be if you tried /really/ hard"
00:23:25 <hppavilion[1]> (e.g. x!=x in most cases, but there are a few cases where it is.)
00:25:03 <MDude> Oh good, the wheel thingy is an idea already.
00:25:07 <MDude> I thought it was.
00:26:40 <hppavilion[1]> "If your heart pacemaker divides by zero, you're dead"
00:26:52 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently, he's never heard of a try..except statement
00:27:02 <hppavilion[1]> Or, y'know, if x != 0
00:28:00 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh
00:28:11 <hppavilion[1]> They have the schoolchildren actually convinced this is mathematical fact
00:28:24 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, sure, math allows you to just make shit up if you feel like it
00:28:31 <hppavilion[1]> But teaching this is just stupid
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01:30:52 <\oren\> well i mean in ieee floats, 1/0 is infinity
01:31:53 <\oren\> and -1/0 is -infinity
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01:34:44 <\oren\> and ieee complexes have 8 different infinities
01:35:23 <myname> and a shitload of NaN
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02:44:38 <shachaf> Taneb: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247365 hth
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02:52:18 <shachaf> oerjan: turns out the thing my cat ate wasn't a placenta but an amnion hth
02:52:23 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnion
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02:58:20 <hppavilion[2]> Ugh
02:58:33 <hppavilion[2]> This Dr. Anderson is a fucking idiot
02:58:50 <hppavilion[2]> According to BBC, "He has also reinvented computing..."
02:59:21 <hppavilion[2]> The perspex can be understood in many ways. ...and an instruction for a machine that is more powerful than the Turing machine.
02:59:50 <hppavilion[2]> s/(^|$)/"/
03:00:39 <hppavilion[2]> Wait, no, that was The Guardian
03:01:13 <hppavilion[2]> The Guardian can't even work up the effort to represent 0^0 using proper exponents
03:02:05 <hppavilion[2]> The Guardian claims that mathematicians are different from computer scientists
03:03:14 <hppavilion[2]> "Anyway, we eagerly await his contribution to the knotty problem of the square root of -1."
03:03:22 <hppavilion[2]> OH MY GOD THE GUARDIAN IS MADE OF IDIOTS
03:05:51 <MDude> Yes, that's often the case with journalism.
03:06:07 <MDude> I'll have to remember that, when writing fiction, to have in-universe news articles be written poorly.
03:06:17 <hppavilion[2]> "Anderson has been trying to market his ideas for transreal arithmetic and "Perspex machines" to investors. He claims that his work can produce computers which run "orders of magnitude faster than today's computers".[7][12] He has also claimed that it can help solve such problems as quantum gravity,[7] the mind-body connection,[13] consciousness[13] and free will.[13]"
03:06:23 <hppavilion[2]> ...
03:06:27 <hppavilion[2]> I am going to go hang myself now
03:06:37 <hppavilion[2]> Better yet, I think I'll hang Anderson.
03:09:53 <MDude> Dr. Anderson sounds like a cool guy and I reccomend he keep on being completely ridiculous.
03:10:04 <zgrep> Hahah.
03:10:13 <MDude> Though Perspex sounds more like a brand of deodorant.
03:10:27 <zgrep> I think it is...
03:11:07 <MDude> If it's such a good computer, I suggest making a server farm first and offering remote services on it.
03:12:01 <MDude> That way he doens't need to worry about selling the machine itself, just its capacity to compute.
03:12:09 <MDude> Mine bitcoins on it maybe.
03:14:00 <hppavilion[2]> Where can I find a paper that goes WAY too far with Peano Arithmetic?
03:14:09 <hppavilion[2]> Like, to-the-complex-numbers far?
03:14:11 <zgrep> MDude: Wouldn't it be better to simply factor giant numbers?
03:14:42 <zgrep> s/better/more fun, exciting, and valuable/
03:15:12 <pikhq> I don't know that quantum computing even helps with Bitcoin.
03:15:23 <MDude> Possibly, at first anyway.
03:15:45 <MDude> If bitcoins are based on factoring, it will.
03:15:51 <pikhq> They aren't.
03:16:00 <diginet> isn't it based on elliptic curves?
03:16:18 <pikhq> Oh, wait, there is the ECDSA signature thing.
03:16:49 <diginet> popular tech media reporting on quantum computing makes me rage
03:16:51 <pikhq> That actually is vulnerable to quantum computers.
03:16:55 <diginet> yeah
03:17:23 <pikhq> I was just thinking SHA-256.
03:17:29 <diginet> pikhq: wait, I thought most hash functions as of yet are quantum-secure?
03:17:36 <hppavilion[2]> Everything is vulnerable to rock-based cellular automaton computers, given long enough
03:17:43 <diginet> isn't ECDSA just an implementation detail of its protocol?
03:18:06 <diginet> I'm increasingly skeptical quantum computers will ever come to fruition
03:18:08 <pikhq> No, ECDSA is used for wallets.
03:18:11 <diginet> ahh
03:19:00 <pikhq> Still, I think that's one of the less interesting uses of breaking almost all crypto on the planet.
03:19:13 <diginet> pikhq: no kidding
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03:37:11 <hppavilion[2]> I've decided to do a playthrough of the λ-calculus xD
03:39:39 <zgrep> diginet: Why's that? (re: increasingly skeptical)
03:40:03 <diginet> zgrep: I don't necessary have a good reason, just a hunch
03:40:10 <diginet> mostly because one hasn't appeared yet
03:40:25 <zgrep> Well, laptops didn't appear immediately either. We first had computers that filled an entire room.
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03:40:46 <diginet> true, although I don't think it's quite comparable
03:40:54 <diginet> quantum computers, as a concept, are fairly old
03:41:34 <zgrep> Though it's not quite comparable, so was the concept of a computer. :P
03:42:18 <hppavilion[2]> Where `1 = λx.x`, would `2 = λs.1` be correct in λ-calculus?
03:42:41 <diginet> zgrep: true, I dunno, I'm willing to be disproven, I'm just not as confident as I once was
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03:43:10 <zgrep> diginet: Well, progress is slowly, but I think most definitely, being made. Remain hopeful! :P
03:43:53 <hppavilion[2]> Wait, got that wrong
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03:45:43 <hppavilion[2]> 1 = λs.0, 0 = λs.I, I = λx.x
03:45:47 <hppavilion[2]> Did I get that right?
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04:31:02 <MDude> Oh, the thing Anderson was doing is different from projective infinity, which seems more like what I was thinking.
04:33:32 <MDude> I wonder if it would make sense to further extend that with irrational numbers to make a number dougnut.
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06:15:30 <FreeFull> MDream: Fun fact: I've had Anderson teach one of my modules for Computer Science
06:17:59 <hppavilion[2]> I'm doing a λ-calculus playthrough. I don't know why I keep being surprised when things work
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07:22:15 <qpwoeiruty> Is it possible to do strlen with Brainfuck?
07:23:21 <coppro> yees
07:23:23 <coppro> *yes
07:24:41 <qpwoeiruty> Any idea how to implement it... I have been reading the assembly pseudo code
07:25:32 <coppro> eh, haven't thought about it
07:25:34 <qpwoeiruty> Kind of new to esoteric 
07:25:36 <coppro> but BF is TC so it's doable
07:26:11 <qpwoeiruty> coppro: would it take a lot of time in your opinion? 
07:26:25 <coppro> I could probably do it in 10 minutes?
07:26:34 <coppro> plus debugging time
07:27:42 <qpwoeiruty> Well I was just hoping for a rough idea...any help is great.
07:28:06 <coppro> you will probably need to move the string as you process it
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07:28:17 <coppro> you can't easily move back to your data, so you need to move the data with you
07:29:22 <coppro> I'd start with something like [count][scratch][string], and at each stage move the count+1 to the scratch, zero the count, move the first character of the string to the count space, then zero the first character of the string
07:29:26 <coppro> then move forward one cell and repeat
07:31:56 <qpwoeiruty> Ok, thanks. Kinda late here. Maybe I'll be back another time. Just a project idea.
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07:45:19 <hppavilion[1]> Unary relations over geometry FTW
07:45:36 <hppavilion[1]> >trianlgle[(0, 0), (0, 1), (1, 0)]
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08:04:46 <hppavilion[1]> I want to make a production-strength programming language
08:04:51 <hppavilion[1]> Based on Combinatory Logic
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08:38:30 <shachaf> zzo38: What's {P}?
08:50:46 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
08:50:54 <hppavilion[1]> So Combinatory Logic is binary trees
08:51:04 <hppavilion[1]> What happens if we do it with DiGraphs instead?
08:52:18 <shachaf> A graph is just a compact representation of a tree.
09:10:30 <zzo38> shachaf: What context? How are you meaning?
09:10:37 <shachaf> {P/W}, I mean
09:10:41 <shachaf> Or was it {W/P}?
09:10:51 <shachaf> (W/P)
09:10:52 <zzo38> It is a Phyrexian mana symbol.
09:11:05 <zzo38> You can pay either one mana of that color, or you can pay 2 life.
09:12:38 <zzo38> It is even mentioned in the rules for Magic: the Gathering.
09:14:18 <shachaf> Oh, I see.
09:14:22 <shachaf> I forgot about that.
09:14:48 <shachaf> It's a bit odd that it's on all colors. Seems like a pretty black ability to me.
09:16:39 <zzo38> Yes I suppose so, but it is on all colors, and is still meaningful in such case too. Anyways, all colors can be in lands that damage you for activating them.
09:17:20 <zzo38> The oldest Phyrexian cards were black, but this was before Phyrexian mana was invented, and now you can find Phyrexian cards in all colors (including black).
09:18:06 <b_jonas> shachaf: don't forget that the Phyrexian blight is spreading. in SOM, infect is only on black and green; in MBS and NPH, it's on all colors.
09:18:30 <shachaf> I never played during that block so I didn't keep track.
09:19:28 <b_jonas> shachaf: the story of the block is that the Phyrexians attack Mirrodin, and by the end of the block, they _win_
09:20:00 <b_jonas> so they start to turn everything on mirrodin, artifacts and things colored by all five suns, to a twisted phyerxian counterpart
09:20:32 <b_jonas> including Darksteel Colossus to Blightsteel Colossus
09:25:52 <izabera> https://howdns.works/
09:27:11 <shachaf> `/bin/ping howdns.works
09:27:12 <HackEgo> ping: unknown host howdns.works
09:27:13 <shachaf> badly hth
09:27:15 <b_jonas> well, it uses some sort of UDP and TCP thingies and servers and... I dunno
09:27:30 <izabera> it's a great read
09:27:33 <izabera> and it's free
09:27:55 <b_jonas> it's that kind of DNS right, not the other, because the other is called DNA in English?
09:28:00 <Taneb> shachaf, I am aware of Teneb the Harvester
09:28:08 <shachaf> Teneb the Hervester
09:28:19 <b_jonas> `? teneb
09:28:20 <HackEgo> teneb? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
09:39:06 <zgrep> Question to those of you who know, how would a language based on dependent types do stuff with input that's unknown, say user input or from a TCP connection... would it just implement the checks into the program so that it checks it at runtime for unknown stuff?
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09:40:09 <shachaf> I think it would do similar things to other languages with types that can express things you want.
09:40:45 <shachaf> Or how do you mean?
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09:50:27 <zzo38> shachaf: If you wanted an account on my card file (in order to add your own comments) then please notify me.
09:50:29 <zzo38> If you have the program "htdigest" on your computer then you can make the hash code needed to send a comment on my custom card file, by the command "htdigest -c /dev/stdout CustomMTG_zzo38" and then your username. (Otherwise, you can figure out your own way to do the calculation I mentioned.)
09:50:47 <zzo38> (Send the result to me by private message.)
09:52:02 <zzo38> I have read of different kind of arguments that the universe is or is not infinite, although I have also thought of one (but am not sure about its validity).
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09:53:02 <shachaf> That sounds like too much work to me.
09:53:10 <shachaf> Why not use a typical account registration system?
09:53:15 <shachaf> Or not require accounts to be registered?
09:53:28 <zzo38> shachaf: In order to avoid spam messages
09:53:44 <shachaf> Have you gotten spam messages?
09:54:09 <zzo38> I have before, in a different webpage that did not require registration
09:54:54 <zzo38> Possibly though a JavaScript program can also be written to perform the calculation and then you can tell me the response of that instead; there can be more than one program to do.
09:55:45 <zzo38> If you are trying to move yourself forward, it takes some amount of energy; to move everything else in the universe backward by the same amount instead would require more energy, but the infinite sum might result in a finite total.
09:55:58 <zzo38> (Probably this is all wrong.)
09:57:10 <zzo38> (Actually I am sure it is, but nevertheless it is what I thought of one day)
09:59:00 <zzo38> shachaf: I know that b_jonas has made that calculation already, and hopefully you have the software to do too, isn't it?
09:59:13 <shachaf> I do, but it seems like too much trouble.
09:59:20 <shachaf> I haven't had a great need to comment. I can use IRC.
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10:01:39 <zzo38> I have found other way to require the registration to often be complicated so I do this way instead; this way I can process the registration by myself and don't need to worry about spam registration account either, since they will not be registration generally (and if it is, I can delete it anyways).
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10:04:38 <zzo38> If we put comment in there then even other people can make the reply of comment too in the same file.
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11:30:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:LegionMammal978/Interpreters/Kangaroo]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46024 * LegionMammal978 * (+1868) Created page with "<pre> using System; using System.Collections.Generic; using System.IO; using System.Text.RegularExpressions;  /* Error codes:  * 0 - success  * 1 - non-existant source file  *..."
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12:31:46 <b_jonas> `wisdom
12:32:02 <HackEgo> ghoul/Ghouls are undead that eat BRAINS. So basically, bog standard undead like zombies or wights, but with some fancy back story in the book that nobody reads.
12:32:07 <b_jonas> `wisdom
12:32:08 <HackEgo> yeeeeeeeesh/See yeeeeeeesh.
12:32:12 <b_jonas> `wisdom
12:32:13 <HackEgo> for further details for futher details./See `? for further details for futher details.
12:32:22 <b_jonas> `? yeeeeeeesh.
12:32:23 <HackEgo> yeeeeeeesh.? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:32:24 <b_jonas> `? yeeeeeeesh
12:32:25 <HackEgo> See yeeeeeesh.
12:32:29 <b_jonas> `? yeeeeeesh
12:32:31 <HackEgo> See yeeeeesh.
12:32:34 <b_jonas> `? yeeeeesh
12:32:35 <HackEgo> See yeeeesh.
12:32:37 <b_jonas> `? yeeeesh
12:32:38 <HackEgo> See yeeesh.
12:32:40 <b_jonas> `? yeeesh
12:32:41 <HackEgo> See yeesh.
12:32:43 <b_jonas> `? yeesh
12:32:44 <HackEgo> yeesh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:33:07 <FireFly> `wisdom
12:33:09 <HackEgo> vi/vi is in a relationship with emacs.
12:33:09 <b_jonas> `? parenthesis
12:33:10 <HackEgo> parenthesis? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:33:18 <b_jonas> `? bracket
12:33:20 <HackEgo> bracket? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:36:04 <FireFly> `wisdom
12:36:06 <HackEgo> password/The password of the month is 'PlayItSweetly,TakeMeDown,Oh,Jazzman'
12:36:52 <FireFly> `culprits wisdom/password
12:36:55 <HackEgo> mroman oerjan oerjan oerjan mroman_
12:37:23 <FireFly> I somehow doubt that it is actually updated monthly
12:38:19 <b_jonas> `? correcthorsebatterystaple
12:38:20 <HackEgo> correcthorsebatterystaple? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:38:31 <b_jonas> `? Tr0ub4dor&3
12:38:32 <HackEgo> Tr0ub4dor&3? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:40:51 <b_jonas> `? d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e
12:40:53 <HackEgo> d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:41:27 <b_jonas> `? 5f4dcc3b5aa765d61d8327deb882cf99
12:41:28 <HackEgo> 5f4dcc3b5aa765d61d8327deb882cf99? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:52:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ABCD]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46025&oldid=44545 * LegionMammal978 * (-2) 
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13:16:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jelly]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46026&oldid=46023 * 78.52.164.106 * (+25) 
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17:59:16 <boily> @metar CYQB
17:59:17 <lambdabot> CYQB 291745Z 06016G24KT 1 1/4SM R06/5000FT/U -SN DRSN VV011 M10/M13 A3032 RMK SN8 SLP277
17:59:27 <boily> DRSN indeed.
18:00:04 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
18:00:04 <lambdabot> CYYZ 291741Z 05006KT 5SM -DZ BR OVC006 03/02 A2980 RMK ST8 SLP100
18:13:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46027&oldid=45965 * 70.190.166.108 * (+782) add Barely, Hanoi Love, Linguine, Numberix, Spaghetti
18:15:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thue]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46028&oldid=38057 * B jonas * (+198) 
18:32:38 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
18:32:39 <lambdabot> EGLL 291820Z AUTO 19012KT 150V230 9999 FEW022 10/07 Q1021
18:32:55 <fizzie> Apparently it'll start getting colder now.
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18:36:38 <FireFly> @metar ESSA
18:36:38 <lambdabot> ESSA 291820Z 12005KT 9999 SCT029 M04/M06 Q1042 R01L/410165 R08/410156 R01R/410163 NOSIG
18:36:55 <FireFly> @metar ESSB
18:36:56 <lambdabot> ESSB 291820Z 13003KT 9999 SCT034 M06/M06 Q1042 R12/19//63
18:38:13 <FireFly> hmm
18:38:18 <FireFly> @metar ESCN
18:38:19 <lambdabot> No result.
18:38:22 <FireFly> makes sense
18:39:30 <coppro> damn Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber
18:39:45 <b_jonas> `wisdom
18:39:48 <HackEgo> the/the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
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19:55:28 <fizzie> @wn gander
19:55:30 <lambdabot> *** "gander" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
19:55:30 <lambdabot> gander
19:55:30 <lambdabot>     n 1: mature male goose
19:55:37 <fizzie> If that's the only sense of the word, where does "take a gander" come from? 
19:55:46 <fizzie> Oh.
19:55:51 <fizzie> I somehow skipped over a row.
19:55:56 <fizzie> "First recorded in 1887, based on craning the neck like a goose."
20:00:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Object-Oriented Brainfuck]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46029&oldid=44541 * 78.52.164.106 * (+9) three months, no edit, two sentences, stub
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20:13:48 <hppavilion[1]> How do I do Church Numerals in SK?
20:14:20 <hppavilion[1]> Or more generally, how do I simply convert between λ-calculus and SK?
20:14:57 <\oren\> i think there's an article on the wiki that says how
20:16:42 <\oren\> http://esolangs.org/wiki/S_and_K_Turing-completeness_proof
20:17:24 <\oren\> it's a proof by conversion from λ calculus to ski logic
20:19:47 <\oren\> which works by having expressions which are half λ and half ski, and applyin rules until there's noting left but ski. 
20:21:07 <\oren\> so really it's a proof that any expression composed of λ and sk, including expressions that are entirely sk, can be converted to entirely λ
20:21:16 <\oren\> or entirely sk
20:21:38 <\oren\> I hink we've ;earned somthing today
20:25:39 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: see also the Mockingbird book, as well as http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/
20:26:12 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Right, should have thought to check there given that I already have that tab open xD
20:27:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S and K Turing-completeness proof]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46030&oldid=35768 * B jonas * (+159) 
20:41:08 <\oren\> I got my new zipper headphones1
20:46:17 <boily> he\\oren\. what are zipper headphones?
20:50:05 <\oren\> headphones that have a zipper between the two wires leading to your ears
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20:52:22 <\oren\> I got two sets for a dollar each
20:54:53 <boily> a reasonable price.
20:54:55 <boily> @metar CYQB
20:54:56 <lambdabot> CYQB 292039Z 07022G29KT 3/4SM R06/4000VP6000FT/D -SN BLSN BKN006 OVC015 M10/M12 A3027 RMK SN6SF1SC1 /S02/ SLP258
20:55:57 <FireFly> Huh. Sounds like a rather neat idea, why have I never seen that before?
20:56:04 <FireFly> headphones with zippers, I mean
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20:58:07 <boily> FirelloFly.
20:58:45 <boily> I have seen them a few times, but they don't seem to be very popular here. nearly everybody with something around their ears is on a pair of Beats or Sony.
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21:01:56 <hppavilion[1]> Whoo!
21:02:31 <hppavilion[1]> I figured out how to implement OR in combinatory logic, given the standard constructions of T and F as T=K, F=K(SKK)
21:02:49 <hppavilion[1]> Which is obviously not a huge achievement but it made me happy!
21:03:15 <hppavilion[1]> (I did have to find a combinator that did something I needed, specifically one of the form `?abc  = bca`)
21:03:56 <boily> hppavellon[1]. have you explored the B, C and W combinators?
21:04:13 <FireFly> bohily
21:04:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Helge Von Koch *  New user account
21:04:50 <FireFly> I see quite a few porta pro's here
21:04:57 <FireFly> of course, that's not in-ear
21:05:05 <FireFly> I don't like in-ear headphones myself though
21:05:16 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Yes, I already have those. Or do you mean explored them alone?
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21:05:41 <hppavilion[1]> My solcution was actually C [R True], where R is the aforementioned combinator I needed
21:06:39 <hppavilion[1]> And True is, of course, K (I named it True instead of T because there was a T combinator needed to implement R)
21:06:53 <hppavilion[1]> (One which doesn't equal True)
21:08:24 <boily> FireFly: I was a in-ear user while I was in school (small, portative), but they are far from being confortable. and they snag on everything. and during winter they conduct painful ESDs to your sensitive earlobes.
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21:09:01 <FireFly> I saw one of them cat-ear headphones recently when commuting
21:09:40 <FireFly> But that's more a novelty thing I guess
21:13:23 <boily> I'm looking for a pair of undisintegrating headphones, without any bluetooth, usb, gimmicks, mikes, buttons...
21:13:46 <boily> something well-built, comfy, and with a good frequency profile.
21:13:54 <boily> and of course, under 200$.
21:18:32 <\oren\> the zipper headphones are pretty damn strudy
21:18:54 <\oren\> s/ru/ur/g
21:24:29 <myname> huh?
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21:29:25 <fizzie> boily: I don't know if you want big or small, open or closed, but I've been quite happy with my Sennheiser HD 558's.
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21:30:17 <\oren\> myname: sturdy
21:30:50 <myname> what headphones?
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21:30:59 <myname> i do speak sed
21:31:32 <\oren\> zipper headphones
21:31:49 <fizzie> Admittedly I haven't had these for terribly long, so I can't be entirely sure whether they'll start disintegrating. Also I didn't read any of the previous discussion; I don't think these would be very good for portabilizing around.
21:31:51 <myname> tdnh
21:32:20 <\oren\> http://www.ebay.com/sch/items/?_nkw=zipper+headphones
21:32:38 <\oren\> I bought them for a dollar
21:32:46 <\oren\> free shipping
21:33:52 <fizzie> I don't think I've seen zipper headphones live, but there was a mention of the concept as a novel idea somewhere.
21:36:56 <\oren\> in china you can get things prototyped in like a week from what I hear
21:38:57 <\oren\> so someone in shenzhen might have heard about it and gone "I know who to call to get that made."
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21:39:44 <b_jonas> `wisdom
21:39:46 <HackEgo> eliot/Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion.
21:39:48 <b_jonas> `? necronomicon
21:39:49 <HackEgo> necronomicon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:40:21 <\oren\> Maybe if I have an idea, it would be easier to mass-email chinese manufacutrers it, then buy it on ebay, than to start a company.
21:40:33 <myname> nomnomnomicron
21:41:02 <\oren\> I'll have to see if that works some time
21:41:56 <boily> fizzie: fizziello. on the smaller end, closed.
21:42:41 <boily> mynamello: https://nomnomnomicon.wordpress.com/ ?
21:44:04 <myname> nice
21:46:20 <fizzie> boily: I used to have HD 280 Pro's from the same company (not so small, but closed), but the headband padding started to go all bad after a scant decade.
21:48:19 <fizzie> And I got a pair of Sony "Pro" (it's always about pro) MDR7506 headphones for work (closed since I thought it'd be a noisier place), and they've been fine so far.
21:49:16 <fizzie> It says "Professional" on a sticker right there on the headphones, and the box has a schematic diagram on it, that's how you know it's a serious tool instead of a frivolous toy.
21:49:26 <boily> I got a pair of MDR-V55 at work. cheap, useful, and solid.
21:50:13 <boily> are there any products out there that are recursively professional? like proprofessional?
22:03:27 <MDude> First, I'd look for something that's called professional but not considered professional enough.
22:03:44 <MDude> Since then there'd be demand for an extra professional version.
22:04:38 <MDude> Maybe there are people who proffesionally train professionalism.
22:05:31 <MDude> I also considered having things I want made by Chinese manufacturers, but I think they might not go for just any idea.
22:06:14 <MDude> Since if it's not already getting sold lucratively, then how do they know it's worth copying?
22:06:29 <MDude> I haven't tried though, so maybe they'd give it a shot if it looks cool.
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22:29:28 <fizzie> There's already a term for "professional but not quite professional": those are "prosumer" things.
22:40:49 <tswett> I just thought of another one of those stupid Magic card ideas.
22:41:27 <tswett> Block Out. 2U. Enchantment - Aura. Enchant spell. If enchanted spell would resolve, exile it instead.
22:41:37 <tswett> ...It should have flash, too.
22:42:12 <b_jonas> tswett: isn't that generally worse than a Cancel?
22:42:16 <b_jonas> wait wait
22:42:17 <b_jonas> for 2U?
22:42:21 <tswett> Yeah.
22:42:21 <b_jonas> that's undercosted
22:42:35 <b_jonas> it can counter any spell, it's only slightly weaker than Cancel
22:42:46 <b_jonas> it should cost the same
22:42:53 <b_jonas> (or more, but then it's useless)
22:42:53 <tswett> Yeah, you're probably right.
22:43:14 <b_jonas> maybe add some restriction to it, then you can cost it lower. there's a lot of restricted counterspells out there.
22:44:07 <b_jonas> Thoughtbind for example
22:44:23 <b_jonas> you don't need severe restrictions to make it 2U
22:44:33 <b_jonas> the counterspells for {1U} are more restricted, obviously
22:45:32 <tswett> Magnet. 2UU. Enchantment - Aura. Enchant Aura enchantment. When Magnet enters the battlefield, attach enchanted enchantment to Magnet. Enchanted enchantment has "Enchant enchantment named 'Magnet'" and loses all other enchant abilities.
22:47:05 <tswett> Wait, I don't think that would work as worded.
22:47:13 <b_jonas> there's a lot of soft-counters that counter a spell unless the opponent pays some amount of generic mana, with some advantage, for 2U
22:48:26 <tswett> When you play Magnet on an enchantment, that enchantment will become unable to enchant whatever it's enchanting (unless it's enchanting a Magnet) and go to the graveyard as a state-based action.
22:48:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46031&oldid=45914 * Luis Mendo * (+110) /* Language specification and compiler */
22:49:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46032&oldid=46031 * Luis Mendo * (+2) /* Fibonacci sequence */
22:49:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46033&oldid=46032 * Luis Mendo * (-1) /* Fibonacci sequence */
22:50:22 <tswett> I think there are several problems, actually.
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22:52:05 <tswett> Magnet. 2UU. Enchantment - Aura. Enchant Aura enchantment. Enchanted enchantment has "Enchant object or player" and loses all other enchant abilities. When Magnet enters the battlefield, attach enchanted enchantment to Magnet, and that enchantment loses "Enchant object or player" and gains "Enchant enchantment named 'Magnet'".
22:52:53 <tswett> And don't forget...
22:53:19 <b_jonas> tswett: does this really need two steps of changing the ability? why wouldn't you just change the ability first, then attach. 
22:53:52 <tswett> Mm... good point. Revision three.
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22:53:53 <b_jonas> tswett: mind you, I think even that could have problems, toying with enchant abilities is dangerous, but I don't see why you need the extra step.
22:54:04 <b_jonas> also, drop the apostrophes
22:54:20 <b_jonas> M:tG uses quotation marks around abilities, but not around names
22:54:25 <tswett> Magnet. 2UU. Enchantment - Aura. Enchant Aura enchantment. When Magnet enters the battlefield, attach enchanted enchantment to Magnet, and that enchantment gains "Enchant enchantment named Magnet" and loses all other enchant abilities.
22:54:59 <b_jonas> tswett: shouldn't that be in the opposite order?
22:55:07 <b_jonas> that is, first change the ability, then attach
22:55:17 <tswett> Uh, lemme see.
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22:55:34 <b_jonas> hmm
22:55:35 <b_jonas> actually
22:55:41 <b_jonas> maybe they have to be simultanous
22:55:53 <b_jonas> so maybe you do need the two steps or simultanouity
22:55:54 <b_jonas> I dunno
22:56:03 <tswett> I think you were right the first time.
22:56:05 <b_jonas> I wouldn't dare to do something like this
22:56:07 <tswett> First change the ability, then attach.
22:56:11 <b_jonas> I mean
22:56:33 <tswett> It's not possible to attach an Aura to an illegal target, but it's possible for an Aura to *be* attached to an illegal target.
22:56:45 <tswett> It just dies as a state-based action.
22:57:11 <b_jonas> tswett: I'm not sure it's possible. isn't there a "can't" somewhere, so it can't even stay attached, but dies only later/
22:58:02 <b_jonas> But my bigger problem isn't how it stays attached. It's that the enchantment might have an ability that normally refers to an object in another zone or a player or something else, and now will try to refer to a permanent. 
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22:58:06 <b_jonas> That might end badly.
22:58:49 <tswett> Looks like no, there's nothing prohibiting an Aura from momentarily enchanting an illegal target.
22:59:16 <tswett> The text of Animate Dead has it momentarily enchanting an illegal target.
22:59:37 <b_jonas> If you turned the enchantment to a copy of something, so it definitely doesn't have any abilities remaining, then it would be fine, but that's usually a bit of an overkill compared to just exiling it.
22:59:40 <tswett> When it enters the battlefield, it changes its own enchant ability and then changes what it's attached to.
23:00:00 <b_jonas> Animate Dead... ouch. 
23:00:11 <b_jonas> that's the card with the longest oracle text these days
23:00:15 <b_jonas> or maybe not
23:00:18 <b_jonas> but among the longest
23:00:36 <b_jonas> maybe some double-faced planeswalkers have more text
23:00:48 <tswett> Ooh boy, now I want to find the card with the longest Oracle text.
23:00:55 <b_jonas> but yes, you're probably right
23:01:12 <b_jonas> But still, I don't like this card even if it does usually stay attached.
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23:02:29 <tswett> "Variable Colorless, Tap: Put a charge counter on Ice Cauldron and exile a nonland card from your hand. You may cast that card for as long as it remains exiled. Note the type and amount of mana spent to pay this activation cost. Activate this ability only if there are no charge counters on Ice Cauldron.
23:02:29 <tswett> Tap, Remove a charge counter from Ice Cauldron: Add Ice Cauldron's last noted type and amount of mana to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast the last card exiled with Ice Cauldron."
23:03:36 <b_jonas> tswett: yes, that's among the longest too. but I think you mangled its text.
23:03:54 <b_jonas> you probably mean "{X}, {T}:" instead of "Variable Colorless, Tap:"
23:03:58 <tswett> Nah.
23:04:00 <b_jonas> then it's slightly less long
23:05:54 <b_jonas> Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh has lots of oracle text if you count it together with the flip side
23:06:00 <tswett> Properly, they should be the Unicode characters U+24CD VARIABLE COLORLESS and U+27F3 TAP.
23:06:44 <b_jonas> ouch
23:08:04 <b_jonas> the other double-sided planeswalkers are long too (Kytheon, Hero of Akros; Jace, Vryn's Prodigy; Liliana, Heretical Healer; Nissa, Vastwood Seer)
23:08:10 <b_jonas> I don't know which one is the longest
23:08:35 <b_jonas> Then there's Greater Morphling of course
23:18:51 <hppavilion[2]> Your Hacker Name: The color of shirt you're wearing right now, concatenated with your email password
23:19:03 <hppavilion[2]> NoneWalrusesAreAmazing
23:19:24 <hppavilion[2]> (OK, that's not my REAL email password. I'm not THAT incredibly stupid)
23:20:08 <FireFly> BlackWalrusesAreAmazingToo
23:22:50 <boily> WhiteIThinkThereAreAlbinoWalruses
23:27:04 <hppavilion[2]> BlackWalrusLivesMatter
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23:29:55 <\oren\> blackcharmander
23:30:30 <\oren\> well charmander was my email password during public school
23:30:46 <\oren\> now it's not a pokemon anymore
23:30:57 <haavard> Hi, my name is Yellow *******
23:33:39 <\oren\> nor does my email adress end in @watson.math.yorku.ca anymore
23:35:38 <myname> it is a digimon now?
23:36:04 <boily> \oren\: you had a watson after the @?
23:36:05 <\oren\> it was garumon for a few weeks then i changed it back
23:36:10 <\oren\> yes
23:36:14 <boily> neat.
23:36:32 <\oren\> i had an address on my dad's server, which still exists.
23:36:49 <\oren\> probably the address also still exists
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23:39:39 <FireFly> \oren\: I'm pretty sure Charmander is still a pokemon
23:40:13 <myname> lol
23:41:08 <oerjan> shachaf: O KAY
23:41:33 <boily> HELLOKAYRJAN.
23:41:40 <shachaf> oerjan: what?
23:41:47 <shachaf> oh, that
23:41:53 <shachaf> it's kind of like an onion
23:41:58 <boily> there are 151 pokémons. Charmander is one of them.
23:43:06 <oerjan> BELLRIGHTILY
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