←2016-01-09 2016-01-10 2016-01-11→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:05:53 <b_jonas> helloily
00:08:28 <b_jonas> oh, CapnClever was running the much shorter DOS version of Prince of Persia this year? that will be interesting
00:08:41 <b_jonas> see, this is why I wish they put the console name in the schedule
00:15:07 * haavard leaves for ENVA monday
00:15:11 <haavard> Please make it not so cold
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00:16:39 <b_jonas> wow
00:16:44 <b_jonas> I never knew about that skip on level 5
00:16:52 <b_jonas> on Price of Persia DOS
00:17:47 <vanila> link?
00:18:01 <b_jonas> vanila: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuJjyN1ukjM&index=58&list=PLz8YL4HVC87VqROwl3mdpVypnv2SXtGm_
00:18:04 <vanila> thanks
00:18:09 <boily> b_jhellonas.
00:23:09 <b_jonas> hehe, as I was watching it, I was wondering why he didn't go up on the right extreme of level 8, then realized, oh right, it's a speedrun, he doesn't need the extra life
00:24:28 <b_jonas> it's a pity some pixels are cropped from the screen on the right and on the bottom
00:24:34 <b_jonas> I'd like to see all the pixels
00:27:02 <b_jonas> I hope he's going to do the skip on level 12
00:29:37 <vanila> b_jonas, i used to play this game as kid i was realy suprised when i found SNES version has new levels
00:29:53 <b_jonas> the SNES version is a lot bigger, yes
00:30:03 <b_jonas> I played the DOS version a lot, and still occasionally replay it
00:30:06 <b_jonas> I did so a few days ago
00:30:07 <b_jonas> um
00:30:08 <b_jonas> few years
00:30:10 <b_jonas> sorry
00:30:15 <b_jonas> it's really great
00:30:35 <b_jonas> yep, he does do the skip on level 12
00:31:31 <vanila> prince of persia 2 is really great as well
00:31:52 <vanila> the sword fighting is great because you can actually enjoy a fight, it's not like gamse where just run pu and hit hit hit until they die
00:32:09 <b_jonas> I didn't play prince of persia much
00:32:14 <b_jonas> um
00:32:20 <b_jonas> I didn't play prince of persia 2 much
00:34:25 <vanila> i would recommend it, it's very interesting
00:34:43 <vanila> i actually want to play them both through now
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00:36:41 <b_jonas> vanila: go on. I won't play prince 2, but if you want, feel free
00:36:59 <vanila> why not?
00:37:18 <b_jonas> the few times I tried it, I didn't like it much
00:37:25 <vanila> ah
00:37:28 <vanila> anwyay i cant play them
00:37:33 <b_jonas> why not?
00:37:44 <vanila> it hurts my hands/arms too much
00:37:56 <b_jonas> ouch
00:37:59 <vanila> ill need a different input device if i want ot play a game
00:38:05 <vanila> i havent worked out a good solution yet
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00:52:19 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CJtphqFSR0
01:01:29 <Taneb> https://www.barrucadu.co.uk/posts/2016-01-09-c-is-not-turing-complete.html
01:02:43 <zzo38> People argue about if C is Turing complete or not
01:03:15 <\oren\> 忘忠性情態憲批承担招拝拡捨授採探接推提揮
01:03:16 <\oren\> 損操敵断暖暮暴朗条枚枝染査株棒検構模権樹
01:03:30 <vanila> my view: its not TC without IO, with IO acting as a tape you can obviously implement any turing machine [supposing the IO really acts as a tape]
01:04:47 <\oren\> roight, with fseek(SEEK_CUR
01:07:12 <pikhq> Nope. File sizes are limited.
01:07:35 <\oren\> pikhq: what if I fopen the tape drive device?
01:07:51 <pikhq> (*all* file offsets are representable within C itself)
01:08:15 <pikhq> \oren\: Okay, what if I take a FSM and glue it to an infinite tape? :P
01:08:40 <zzo38> Are you allowed to rewind stdin if it is a tape?
01:09:14 <pikhq> ... Also, tape device offsets are *also* limited.
01:09:30 <\oren\> I'm not aware of a limitation syaing anywhere you can fseek to you can be ftold?
01:10:00 * Sgeo_ wonders what living in Tel Aviv is like compared to NYC and Silicon Valley
01:11:21 <\oren\> that is, suppose X is the largest off_t. if you do fseek(SEEK_SET,X); fseek(SEEK_SET,X); then won't you have fsought to a position of 2X, unrepresentable as off_t?
01:11:58 <\oren\> er, forgot to pass in the file to fseek. whatever, you get the idea
01:16:30 <\oren\> `cc int main(){ FILE *f=fopen("/dev/null","r+"); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,~0); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,~0); printf("%ld",ftell(f));}
01:16:55 <HackEgo> ​<stdin>: In function ‘main’: \ <stdin>:1:13: error: unknown type name ‘FILE’ \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
01:17:15 <\oren\> `cc #include "stdio.h"\n int main(){ FILE *f=fopen("/dev/null","r+"); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,~0); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,~0); printf("%ld",ftell(f));}
01:17:23 <HackEgo> 0
01:18:11 <\oren\> `cc #include "stdio.h"\n int main(){ FILE *f=fopen("/dev/null","r+"); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,~0>>1); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,~0>>1); printf("%ld",ftell(f));}
01:18:13 <HackEgo> 0
01:18:24 <\oren\> `cc #include "stdio.h"\n int main(){ FILE *f=fopen("/dev/null","r+"); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,(~0)>>1); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,(~0)>>1); printf("%ld",ftell(f));}
01:18:25 <HackEgo> 0
01:19:47 <\oren\> `cc #include "stdio.h"\n int main(){ FILE *f=fopen("/dev/null","r+"); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,1); fseek(f,SEEK_CUR,1); printf("%ld",ftell(f));}
01:19:49 <HackEgo> 0
01:19:52 <\oren\> oh
01:20:16 <\oren\> apparently on /dev/null your position is locked to zero
01:23:44 <\oren\> the C standard doesn't define any errors for fseek, only for ftell
01:26:44 <\oren\> oh. it can retrun nonzero "of the requst can't be satisfied"
01:27:54 <\oren\> but that still is implementation defined
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01:28:38 <\oren\> So I guess the final conclusion is that fseek *can* allow C to be turing complete, but doesn't have to.
01:29:06 <vanila> yeah
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01:53:11 <boily> he\\oren\! still fonting?
01:53:53 <boily> meanwhile, if y'all guys could answer that thing I made, it'd be nice: https://www.reddit.com/r/SampleSize/comments/4099j8/casual_delicacies_everyone/
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02:04:42 <boily> \oren\: could you thicken 性 twh
02:05:18 <tswett> `? twk
02:05:20 <tswett> `? twh
02:05:20 <HackEgo> twk? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:05:21 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
02:05:30 <tswett> `? hand
02:05:31 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
02:06:16 <tswett> `? magic
02:06:17 <HackEgo> The magic was in you all along.
02:06:24 <tswett> `? Magic: the Gathering
02:06:25 <HackEgo> Magic: the Gathering? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:06:27 <tswett> `? mtg
02:06:28 <HackEgo> mtg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:15:29 <boily> tswellott. not all TLAs are in the wisdom hth
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02:19:43 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/hand
02:19:47 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan oerjan
02:20:05 <shachaf> HAND in the bush. HTH
02:23:21 <zzo38> You should try to make more comment/complaint of my own custom Magic: the Gathering cards, and also the puzzle
02:23:36 <shachaf> But I'd have to make an account for that.
02:23:54 <shachaf> And I don't like MD5, or even HTTP authentication.
02:26:28 <zzo38> I know, MD5 isn't very good, but this HTTP authentication is better than the other way
02:26:42 <shachaf> What's the other way? Cookies?
02:27:04 <zzo38> I think there are many other ways
02:27:55 <shachaf> Maybe you should make registration and accounts optional.
02:28:36 <zzo38> This account does not require any email or date or birth
02:29:41 <zzo38> However at least now it can also be done by form if you have JavaScripts.
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02:30:54 <shachaf> What do I do with the form?
02:31:52 <zzo38> Write the result to me by the private message, and then I can approve the account.
02:33:33 <hppavilion[1]> I'm trying to design a C-level programming language that uses more mathematical programming :)
02:33:42 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. functions are curried instead of f(x)ed
02:34:29 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: OK, how will it compile?
02:34:37 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Cleverly
02:34:42 <zzo38> OK
02:35:00 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: What do you mean by "How will it compile"?
02:35:07 <hppavilion[1]> I do not understand the question
02:35:57 <oerjan> the question does not compile.
02:36:16 <zzo38> I mean do you intend to compile into native codes and if so how the function that return the other function is compile to be optimized?
02:36:52 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Similarly to Haskell. I do plan to compile.
02:36:57 <zzo38> OK
02:37:08 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. recursion is optimized into loops
02:38:09 <oerjan> similarly to haskell, so at least 3 intermediate languages.
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02:46:54 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yep xD
02:49:02 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Are there any tutorials on the Interwebz about /designing/ programming languages that you know of?
02:49:19 <oerjan> nope
02:49:34 <oerjan> but only because i'm too lazy to know
02:49:44 <oerjan> or possibly remember
02:50:23 <boily> according to /r/mapporn, half of Norwegian population lives in the blue areas: http://i.imgur.com/nZfwf1m.png
02:52:20 <oerjan> well that does seem to include our major cities
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02:53:46 * oerjan is slightly surprised by the big blob a bit above the middle
02:54:47 <oerjan> that's close to where i'm from, and i didn't think it was that densely populated...
02:56:05 <shachaf> @where oerjan is from
02:56:05 <lambdabot> I know nothing about oerjan.
02:56:38 <shachaf> you and me both, buddy
02:56:50 <boily> oerjan exists.
02:56:59 <shachaf> `? oerjan
02:57:01 <HackEgo> Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
02:57:25 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/famous/& mysterious/' wisdom/oerjan
02:57:29 <HackEgo> No output.
02:57:52 <FireFly> If I recall correctly, the latitude where half of Sweden's population is north of it and half south of it is slightly /south/ of Stockholm
02:57:59 <FireFly> which says something about the population skew
02:58:31 <shachaf> what do you have all the rest for then twh
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02:59:00 <oerjan> shachaf: timber hth
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02:59:49 <shachaf> lumboerjan
03:00:13 <oerjan> or in norway's case, also rock
03:00:57 <FireFly> Also space research, or at least that's what I associate Kiruna with
03:01:22 <oerjan> they have plenty of space there
03:01:36 <shachaf> oerjan++
03:01:38 <zzo38> shachaf: Now do you understand this form?
03:01:41 <ridemyponey> did you know sweden was one of the first countries to approve palestine's status as a state? also.. ingrid bergman.. and her daughter :v and of course drew berrymore. i love sweden. but i don't like oerjan.
03:01:48 <shachaf> `? zzo38mtg.php
03:01:49 <HackEgo> http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php
03:02:09 <shachaf> zzo38: I understand the form but I don't want to make an account.
03:02:16 <shachaf> If you made a way to comment without an account, though...
03:02:19 <FireFly> oerjan: that is true
03:02:37 <FireFly> Kiruna municipality is in fact the least population-dense one
03:02:42 <zzo38> You want to post a comment without account?
03:03:15 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
03:04:15 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*52716a32@*.com/ip.
03:04:15 -!- oerjan has kicked ridemyponey Happy new year, hagb4rd.
03:04:30 <hppavilion[1]> hagb4rd?
03:04:37 <shachaf> oh
03:04:46 <shachaf> i was wondering
03:04:58 <zzo38> I can try to think of it but I want to avoid the spam message too much
03:05:16 <shachaf> Are people trying to spam your site?
03:05:22 <zzo38> I don't know.
03:05:25 <shachaf> Or only automated bots that try to spam every site?
03:05:44 <shachaf> You could add a moderation feature whereby comments get submitted to you for approval before they're posted.
03:06:08 <zzo38> No, I mean I do not want to be spam to myself.
03:06:25 <zzo38> Therefore moderation feature even result in they still have to send the message to me at first
03:06:38 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
03:06:49 <zzo38> And would still require deleted if the message is wrong, just the same way.
03:06:55 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: an old troll who keeps returning occasionally
03:07:02 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Ah
03:07:05 <zzo38> I do not want it to be spam by manually either. But I do want to allow to post even if you use curl instead of use web browser softwaer if you want to, too.
03:09:48 <shachaf> `` egrep 'by \w+ly' quotes
03:09:49 <HackEgo> ​<zzo38> Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb's been hit by melancholy. <Phantom_Hoover> He didn't have any friends, fortunatel.y \ <itidus20> what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a numbe
03:10:08 <shachaf> zzo38: I would play both of those games.
03:10:12 <shachaf> Especially the latter.
03:10:43 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: in fact half the reason he's permanently banned is that he's consistently tried to sneak back while still banned
03:10:57 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Of course
03:14:03 <shachaf> zzo38: I like Wall of Learning.
03:14:23 <shachaf> Do you know if there's any official card with a similar effect?
03:15:32 <zzo38> I don't know
03:32:06 <zzo38> OK, you can now post comments anonymously too. See the HTML source of the "Info" page for details.
03:33:48 <shachaf> Oh, but you still need to use HTTP authentication?
03:34:25 <shachaf> Is there a place I can test commenting?
03:34:34 <shachaf> I don't want to mess up the comments page of a real card.
03:34:43 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php?do=card&id=%2104+Miscellaneous
03:35:14 <zzo38> It just says "Miscellaneous", although that is what I used to test it, and I will delete test comments from there too.
03:35:41 <shachaf> "The text is too short/long; please try again."
03:35:45 <shachaf> What are the length limits?
03:36:44 <zzo38> The limits are 8 to 10000
03:47:20 <vanila> whats this soing?
03:47:21 <vanila> whats this song?
03:47:23 <vanila> doens anyone know it
03:47:33 <vanila> sonic i guess
03:53:29 <zzo38> I don't know
03:55:09 <mauris> this has all been sonic 3 music vanila
03:55:15 <vanila> thanks
03:55:29 <zzo38> shachaf: If you are having a trouble with it then please tell me so
04:19:17 <\oren\> http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2006/as-sa/97-550/vignettes/img/map-2006-pop-density-canada-sz01-en.gif
04:20:35 <\oren\> as you can see, most canadians would take 2 hours or less to drive to America
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04:42:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46136&oldid=46135 * Rottytooth * (+349) edited for clarity
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05:45:41 <zzo38> See if the card game can be made which resembles a Pokemon battle simulator (not the game of Pokemon card, which is an entirely different game), I have some ideas such as using square cards which can be placed in four possible orientations and opponent will not see what card it is until exposed
05:56:56 <shachaf> I don't know how a Pokémon battle simulator works.
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06:32:25 <zzo38> Neither do I, but I think my brother does
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08:24:59 <hppavilion[1]> "All language reduces to a finite string of Hitlers"
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08:29:19 <zzo38> ?
08:30:28 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: SMBC
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09:29:13 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.7 Is this correct?
09:31:01 <myname> hppavilion[1]: which one?
09:31:48 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Not sure. Didn't save the tab xD
09:31:55 <hppavilion[1]> Or do you mean which SMBC?
09:32:00 <hppavilion[1]> Is there more than one?
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11:35:47 <izabera> https://arin.ga/YocMZj/raw need some help to understand this
11:36:12 <izabera> it's from man 2 fcntl
11:36:21 <izabera> why can i change the O_APPEND flag?
11:36:27 <izabera> what does that mean?
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12:07:45 <b_jonas> Mario Maker shows some sort of preview image of the levels in the level select screen? How is it a blind race then?
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12:48:57 <fizzie> izabera: I assume it would mean enabling/disabling the things the O_APPEND flag normally does, i.e. the behavior that, before every write, the write position is set to the end of the file.
12:49:40 <izabera> oh
12:49:43 <izabera> i didn't know that
12:50:07 <izabera> i thought all it did was to seek to the end of file when opening
12:50:32 <fizzie> No, it's on every write. (You can move around and read from other locations if it's also open for reading, though.)
12:50:47 <izabera> thank you
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12:56:27 <deltab> note that NFS doesn't fully support the O_APPEND flag: it'll read the size and seek there, but something else could write there at the same time and get overwritten
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13:01:07 <deltab> (see http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/man1/safecat.1.html for an alternative)
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13:15:36 <izabera> thanks :)
13:21:09 <Laivos> may the force be with you
13:23:20 <Laivos> you stay here for a long time, and nobody talk with nobody
13:24:38 <Laivos> Builders of the new world
13:30:38 <boily> @metar CYUL
13:30:38 <lambdabot> CYUL 101300Z 11007KT 15SM FEW070 BKN110 OVC200 04/01 A2983 RMK AC1AC6CI1 SLP104
13:30:43 <boily> no rain yet!
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13:38:41 <haavard> @metar ENZV
13:38:41 <lambdabot> ENZV 101320Z 11019KT 9999 -RASN FEW013 BKN090 03/M01 Q0984 TEMPO 4000 -SN BKN014
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13:38:53 <haavard> RASN.. that's a good combo
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13:44:37 <b_jonas> I'm watching more of AGDQ now
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13:47:33 <b_jonas> oh great, rain again
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14:00:31 <int-e> @metar lowi
14:00:32 <lambdabot> LOWI 101350Z 16004KT 120V190 9999 FEW008 SCT012 05/03 Q1000 NOSIG
14:01:01 <int-e> kinda boring
14:01:08 <b_jonas> `wisdom
14:01:23 <b_jonas> .
14:01:23 <HackEgo> welcome.eo/Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-on: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.)
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14:59:18 <b_jonas> Sadly, the GTA 3 run is a bit disappointing. Adam_ak's commentary is much better than this one.
14:59:26 <b_jonas> Pity.
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15:56:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46137&oldid=46127 * Rdebath * (+601) Nope, don't think so.
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16:17:47 <izabera> i'm w/ my dad and his friends
16:17:51 <izabera> kill me
16:17:57 <izabera> plz x.x
16:22:50 -!- user has joined.
16:26:00 -!- user has changed nick to lolcat.
16:29:33 <zzo38> No
16:31:03 <lolcat> Yes
16:46:12 <b_jonas> yes
16:47:26 <APic> WHAT YOU SAY !!
16:54:17 <int-e> `quote
16:54:22 <HackEgo> 447) <Phantom_Hoover> Riots in Glasgow would probably be reported as a sudden drop in crime.
17:10:14 <FireFly> `wisdom
17:10:17 <HackEgo> for further details for futher details./See `? for further details for futher details.
17:10:26 <FireFly> `wisdom
17:10:28 <HackEgo> california/California is pronounced "Caliphate-ornery-I-A"
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17:14:44 <b_jonas> At AGDQ, the Kaizo Mario run is awesome
17:14:59 <b_jonas> It's a crazy hard game.
17:35:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Kai]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46138&oldid=21090 * LegionMammal978 * (+13) dead link
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17:52:44 <myname> does anybody know of any df like for android?
17:57:17 <Phantom_Hoover> `delquote 447
17:57:21 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <Phantom_Hoover> Riots in Glasgow would probably be reported as a sudden drop in crime.
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18:39:58 <ais523> :t (if x == 0 then x else x)
18:39:59 <lambdabot> Expr
18:40:03 <ais523> err
18:40:11 <ais523> :t \x -> (if x == 0 then x else x)
18:40:13 <lambdabot> (Eq a, Num a) => a -> a
18:40:33 <ais523> :t (\x -> (if x == 0 then x else x)) (0==)
18:40:34 <lambdabot> (Eq a, Eq (a -> Bool), Num a, Num (a -> Bool)) => a -> Bool
18:40:41 <ais523> :t (\x -> (x==0)) (0==)
18:40:43 <lambdabot> No instance for (Eq (a0 -> Bool))
18:40:43 <lambdabot> (maybe you haven't applied enough arguments to a function?)
18:40:43 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘==’
18:41:02 <ais523> :t (\x -> (if x==0 then 1 else 2)) (0==)
18:41:04 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (Eq (a0 -> Bool)) arising from a use of ‘==’
18:41:04 <lambdabot> from the context (Num a)
18:41:04 <lambdabot> bound by the inferred type of it :: Num a => a at <interactive>:1:1
18:41:15 <ais523> :t (\x -> (if x == 0 then x else x)) (0==)
18:41:17 <lambdabot> (Eq a, Eq (a -> Bool), Num a, Num (a -> Bool)) => a -> Bool
18:41:21 <ais523> :t (\x -> (if x == 0 then 1 else 2)) (0==)
18:41:23 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (Eq (a0 -> Bool)) arising from a use of ‘==’
18:41:23 <lambdabot> from the context (Num a)
18:41:23 <lambdabot> bound by the inferred type of it :: Num a => a at <interactive>:1:1
18:41:28 <ais523> ???
18:41:55 <ais523> :t (\x -> (if x == 0 then (0==) else (0==))) (0==)
18:41:57 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (Eq (a0 -> Bool)) arising from a use of ‘==’
18:41:57 <lambdabot> from the context (Eq a, Num a)
18:41:57 <lambdabot> bound by the inferred type of it :: (Eq a, Num a) => a -> Bool
18:42:11 <ais523> :t (if (0==) == 0 then (0==) else (0==))
18:42:13 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (Num a0) arising from the literal ‘0’
18:42:13 <lambdabot> from the context (Eq a, Num a)
18:42:13 <lambdabot> bound by the inferred type of it :: (Eq a, Num a) => a -> Bool
18:43:41 <ais523> ( :t (\x -> (if x == 0 then x else x)) (0==)
18:43:41 <idris-bot> (input):1:8: error: expected: ",",
18:43:41 <idris-bot> ":", "=>", "impossible"
18:43:41 <idris-bot> :t (\x -> (if x == 0 then x else x)) (0==)<EOF>
18:43:41 <idris-bot> ^
18:43:43 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
18:43:49 <ais523> ( :t (\x => (if x == 0 then x else x)) (0==)
18:43:55 <idris-bot> Can't resolve type class Num (Integer -> Bool)
18:44:01 <Xe> idris is an esoteric language now?
18:44:13 <ais523> Xe: not /really/ but it appeals to esolangers
18:44:19 <ais523> it's in the same category as Haskell in that respect
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19:33:06 <J_Arcane> Is there a traditional behavior expected for improperly matched [] in brainfuck?
19:33:23 <zzo38> It is an error.
19:33:26 <J_Arcane> Ie, if I hit a second [ before a ].
19:33:34 <J_Arcane> Should my interpreter check for that?
19:33:42 <zzo38> That is OK; it is nested loop
19:34:55 <J_Arcane> Hmm. I guess what I'm not clear on is how matching works then. In other words, is it just safe to look for the next ] and ignore anything else we find along the way.
19:35:26 <mauris> [>+[>+]>+] or something is properly matched
19:36:02 <mauris> just match the brackets in the only way that makes sense?
19:36:40 <mauris> if there are more [s than ]s, or vice versa, throw an error. if there is a ] that doesn't correspond to any [, do the same
19:36:49 <zzo38> But if there is a [ without ] afterword, or extra ] then it is error, although as an extension you may use a mismatched ] to begin the initial input of the program, before reading user input.
19:37:22 <zzo38> (Some implementations use ! to begin initial input instead, although neither is standard brainfuck.)
19:39:57 <J_Arcane> this is what I get for trying to implement a language I don't actually know.
19:41:01 <J_Arcane> so dumb question time: in [>+[>+]>+],. does the first [ need to match to the first ] or the last one?
19:41:17 <zzo38> The first [ matches the last ]
19:41:22 <zzo38> And the inner [ matches the inner ]
19:42:06 <J_Arcane> yeah. OK. So I'll need to be cleverer about following loops. That's what I needed.
19:44:41 <myname> what
19:44:54 <myname> how would anything else make any sense?
19:45:25 <myname> if the first [ would match the first ], the inner loop would have to go outside the outer loop and then back in
19:47:10 <myname> i am not sure what is more interesting: why you don't know bf or why you implement it if you don't know it
19:53:04 <b_jonas> myname: um, it could do gotos anywhere.
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19:57:35 <myname> b_jonas: how does that contradict anything i said?
19:59:54 <J_Arcane> b_jonas: exactly I expected a more imperative, less intelligent behavior: ie. it would simply scan for the next opposite symbol.
20:00:49 <J_Arcane> And to answer the question of "why": because I was bored, and it occurred I had some novel features in Heresy that might make it fun to implement.
20:01:11 <myname> how about implementing eodermdrome?
20:01:39 <J_Arcane> BF is superficially similar to a simpler example I was reviewing from a code exercise I'd done.
20:02:27 <myname> implementing bf is pretty borong, unless done in any weird or unfit language
20:02:48 <J_Arcane> Heresy is a slightly weird, possibly unfit language of my own devising, so that was also a motivation really.
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20:06:05 <zzo38> How good do you know rules of Magic: the Gathering do you know how to help me with this? http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.7
20:07:07 <zzo38> What exactly happens? (For example, is there ever a card in any graveyard face-down or with no characteristics?)
20:07:24 <ais523> I think a card can only be in a graveyard face-down during the casting of a spell
20:07:35 <ais523> and automatically turns face-up and regains its characteristics when the spell finishes casting
20:08:20 <b_jonas> (or during activating an ability)
20:08:55 <zzo38> I know that is true in the hand if the card is drawn (rule 401.5), and that seems to be what is important for Anafenza's replacement effect.
20:09:25 <zzo38> Does it reset when it is actually in the graveyard though, and furthermore, is this game position winnable?
20:15:00 <zzo38> So do either of you know how these cards will interact in this game position?
20:23:04 <haavard> @metar engm
20:23:04 <lambdabot> ENGM 101950Z 02007KT 2400 -SN BR SCT011 BKN013 M05/M06 Q0996 TEMPO 1000 SN VV003
20:27:23 <boily> @metar CYUL
20:27:24 <lambdabot> CYUL 102000Z 06013KT 15SM FEW045 BKN080 BKN120 06/03 A2926 RMK SC1AC5AC1 PRESFR SLP910
20:27:53 <boily> it's raining. stop lying, you sleazy airport weather report guy.
20:28:20 * boily is tempted to write a strongly worded letter to Aéroports de Montréal.
20:29:44 <haavard> My friend is stuck at ENGM because his flight was cancelled. Doesn't look like it's the weather, though
20:35:16 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
20:35:17 <lambdabot> CYYZ 102020Z 29020G28KT 2SM -SN SCT013 OVC025 01/M01 A2915 RMK SN2SF2NS4 PRESRR SLP877
20:38:43 <hppavilion[1]> I would like to propose a new, useful operator
20:38:54 <hppavilion[1]> >-<, read "Together with"
20:39:02 <hppavilion[1]> Or maybe ><
20:39:40 <hppavilion[1]> {0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7} >< {(+), (-), (*), (/)} forms modular arithmetic (specifically, mod 8)
20:40:30 <myname> so, it is just (Z_8, +, *)?
20:42:07 <zzo38> You are not really describing what the "Together with" operator is going to do very precisely?
20:42:35 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I am not. It's a more general operator.
20:43:07 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: It is really just a placeholder for an operator to dynamically create rings/groups/fields/magmas/categories/ordered things/etc
20:44:11 <myname> how do you specify anytjing in it? like, what is 1 p 2?
20:44:16 <myname> 1 + 2
20:44:32 <zzo38> boily: Maybe you should just telephone them to make an inquiry?
20:44:54 <myname> how do i know if it is F_8 or F__2 x F_2 x F_2?
20:47:33 <hppavilion[1]> myname: That's up to the mathematician using it.
20:47:46 <hppavilion[1]> It's a general idea more than a fixedly-defined operator
20:48:06 <myname> how is the operator any different than writing the respective tuple?
20:49:11 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I don't know, really. It's good for dynamically creating mathematical structures, at least.
20:49:55 <myname> how do you "create a structure" without defining how to calculate in it
20:49:59 <hppavilion[1]> What weird types of OO could there be? I'm currently catalogueing OO models and have Classes, Prototypes, and Groups (which really encompass rings and algebras and fields and such)
20:50:18 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'm clueless, OK? It was just a fleeting thought that I didn't think much about
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21:11:18 <vanila> hello
21:11:38 <vanila> b-jonas, i watched that prince of ppersia run and it was amazing thanks for recommending it!
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21:24:13 <b_jonas> vanila: had you known of that skip on level 5? that was new to me
21:25:48 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps a programming language that is SO (Subject-Oriented) instead of OO (Object-Oriented)?
21:26:31 <hppavilion[1]> Oh wait, that's already a thing xD
21:27:02 <vanila> I didn't know any of it!
21:27:17 <vanila> except buffering inputs i g uess
21:31:07 <b_jonas> that skip is indeed possible by the way, even with my lame skills I could replicate it, although in a much slower way
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21:46:39 <zzo38> You have not verified my puzzle (as far as I can tell), although you have answered some questions, the answers which do not however invalidate it.
21:47:20 <haavard> zzo38: new MTG puzzle?
21:47:33 <zzo38> haavard: Yes.
21:47:45 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.7
21:48:08 <zzo38> (There is also puzzle.6 I don't know if you have seen that one either?)
21:49:17 <haavard> I haven't gotten around to give any of them serious thought, to be honest
21:49:26 <haavard> Except the first one, but I'm probably wrong about my answer
21:49:53 <zzo38> What is your answer though?
21:50:47 <haavard> 119
21:51:44 <zzo38> Which cards do you think could be used though?
21:53:05 <haavard> I think you could just attack with Leviathan and Bloodrush the Pyrewild Shaman for the win
21:55:13 <haavard> I think I see why that doesn't work now
21:55:37 <zzo38> You need mana to do that!
21:56:16 <haavard> Yeah, the Leviathan trigger happens before you get the change to bloodrush
21:56:50 <haavard> That's why I figured my answer was wrong, it was too stupid
21:57:21 <zzo38> Leviathan's only triggered ability applies during your upkeep.
21:57:28 <haavard> I feel like printing out proxies of the board state and every card in The Dark would help solving this :P
21:57:37 <zzo38> You may mean the cost
21:57:45 <haavard> Right, I meant the attack cost
21:58:24 <haavard> And you can't float the mana for bloodrush, because of reasons
21:58:43 <haavard> (I'd look in the comprehensive rules but it's too late to bother)
21:59:11 <b_jonas> not the Leviathan again
21:59:47 <haavard> Surely it's not as bad as Panglacial Wurm
22:00:52 <zzo38> haavard: I count four cards in The Dark that would give you enough mana to bloodrush (there are also others that can win in other ways such as attacking)
22:02:04 <zzo38> My puzzle.7 does include Panglacial Wurm, but you can notice that none of the other cards in the puzzle say to search your library anyways.
22:02:33 <b_jonas> haavard: no, it's not that Leviathan itself is bad, it's just that I remember zzo38's puzzle with a Leviathan, and I suspect this is the same one
22:02:48 <haavard> It likely is, b_jonas
22:02:55 <zzo38> That is the "first one" that haavard is refering to
22:02:56 <haavard> zzo38: is the wurm a red herring, then?
22:02:59 <zzo38> (I mean puzzle.1)
22:03:22 <b_jonas> yep, puzzle.1
22:03:41 <zzo38> haavard: No, it is a green wurm
22:03:56 <haavard> zing
22:04:22 <b_jonas> which asks to count possible cards from The Dark that let you win the game, which is crazy because I know very little about the early sets.
22:05:06 <zzo38> You can also look at my puzzle.6 and puzzle.7 which are the newest ones
22:05:11 <b_jonas> I don't even have any cards from them, since they were printed in such a low number of copies
22:05:59 <haavard> I don't think The Dark was such a low print run
22:06:08 <b_jonas> oh, puzzle.6 is the one with Artificial Evolution and Fork
22:07:05 <zzo38> I counted thirteen cards as the answer to puzzle.1, six of which involve having enough mana to use bloodrush
22:08:24 <b_jonas> haavard: I don't know, but I believe I have no cards at all from the early expansions (and also from the early core sets)
22:09:00 <zzo38> I have a book with all of the old cards, and there is also Gatherer and others to find the cards on
22:09:02 <b_jonas> whereas I have at least a few cards from every expert set starting from Mirage and from every core set starting from Revised
22:09:23 <zzo38> (I do not have any cards though)
22:09:48 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, there's Gatherer, http://magiccards.info/ , yawgatog's list, and at some point I used to have a list I made myself but since they made the new Gatherer I haven't fixed it
22:10:10 <b_jonas> it's a bit tricky because many lists get the split cards, flip cards, and two-faced cards wrong
22:10:32 <b_jonas> even the old Gatherer used to
22:10:44 <b_jonas> the new one _almost_ gets them correctly, except not quite
22:12:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: anyway, as for puzzle.6, that looks like the same one that you told about in the channel, apparently before you write it up
22:12:18 <b_jonas> so I beleive I know the solution
22:12:58 <b_jonas> although this is a more complicated versino of it
22:15:02 <zzo38> I would want SQLite extension which can access those services, to figure out which is best for the query and how to query the server in the optimal way to do what the user has requested.
22:15:30 <haavard> What does that have to do with SQLite?
22:16:08 <zzo38> As a virtual table
22:16:12 <b_jonas> zzo38: Yawgatog's is probably the best.
22:16:29 <b_jonas> oh that reminds me
22:16:38 <b_jonas> is the setfaq out yet for the latest set?
22:16:44 <zzo38> Did you look at my puzzle.7 yet though?
22:16:55 <zzo38> I don't know if the setfaq is out yet
22:17:19 <b_jonas> I'm too tired to solve a new puzzle now. It has panglacial wurm in it so it's scary.
22:17:59 <b_jonas> also Laboratory Maniac, so it might be connected to what we talked about
22:18:17 <b_jonas> but if you say there's no way to search library in it, then I wonder how the panglacial is relevant
22:18:48 <b_jonas> surely you won't put Panglacial Wurm in it just to get a big wurm with trample, there's tons of other wurms and beasts and treefolk
22:18:59 <b_jonas> (although the treefolk don't have trample, I think)
22:19:25 <b_jonas> oh right! Oakgnarl Warrior has trample. I should have remembered that, I like that card
22:19:41 <b_jonas> also several other treefolks
22:19:41 <zzo38> It is still a 9/5 green Wurm creature with trample for {5GG}
22:19:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, that's scary
22:20:15 <haavard> Dies to bolt + shock, unplayable
22:21:00 <b_jonas> Chromatic Sphere, Skirge Familiar, Laboratory Maniac, Lhurgoyf, this starts to sounds like that thing we talked about with mana abilities
22:21:18 <b_jonas> now what's an Anafenza, the Foremost (/me checks)
22:21:36 <b_jonas> oh, it's one of _those_ replacement effects
22:36:58 <b_jonas> As for DOS Prince of Persia, there's some unfortunate implications when you think of that Mechner has made the realistic animations by filming his brother doing moves and then drawing them,
22:37:30 <b_jonas> but that the game shows both the hero and the guards get impaled on spikes and get chopped in half by choppers.
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22:55:17 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> "All language reduces to a finite string of Hitlers" <-- i sensed a great amount of conflation of meanings of the word "is" there. and an unfounded assumption that the result is an equivalence relation.
22:55:58 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes, yes, I noticed that too.
22:56:15 <hppavilion[1]> It's be more accurate to say "cat falls under the umbrella of cute"
22:56:36 <hppavilion[1]> So hitler and love are under the same umbrella, but are not the same.
22:56:40 <hppavilion[1]> Necessarily.
22:56:43 <hppavilion[1]> They could be though.
22:57:01 <oerjan> your umbrella = set hth
22:57:10 <hppavilion[1]> So it's more like 7 trillion ambiguities that /could/ be resolved into a socially repulsive view
22:57:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: More of a euler diagram, IMHO
22:57:29 <hppavilion[1]> It can be represented as a set, but it isn't necessarily a set
22:57:42 <hppavilion[1]> "umbrella" is an umbrella term for anything that is equivalent to a set
22:57:49 <hppavilion[1]> (Recursive definitions FTW!)
23:00:08 <oerjan> also http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlerAteSugar (warning, evil link)
23:05:17 <boily> hellørjan. you are evil.
23:07:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:08:19 <oerjan> bomwahahahily
23:10:37 <oerjan> "Bob: I want to commit genocide. Alice: The Nazis committed genocide. Bob: Really? What was I thinking? I can't believe I was going to do something the Nazis did."
23:11:12 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:11:38 <oerjan> perhaps best ais523 didn't see that.
23:12:05 <ais523> oerjan: hmm, you cunningly say that right as I join
23:12:14 <ais523> are you trying to bait me into logreading?
23:12:28 * oerjan whistles innocently
23:12:45 * hppavilion[1] whistles more innocently than oerjan does
23:12:54 <hppavilion[1]> well, /me tries, but /me can't whistle
23:12:56 * Elronnd whistles like an angel
23:13:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
23:14:01 <oerjan> Elronnd: stop whistling in an apocalyptic booming tone twh
23:14:13 * Elronnd whistles like a devil
23:14:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46139&oldid=45705 * Hppavilion1 * (-100) /* A note on types */ Changed to haskell, now fixing the article
23:15:55 <oerjan> ais523: well in my client it fit so nicely between your ping-out and your join
23:25:10 <FireFly> oerjan: an evil link from the evil twin?
23:25:59 <oerjan> meh
23:26:23 <oerjan> that's not even worth a swat hth
23:28:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of operators]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46140&oldid=46139 * Hppavilion1 * (+1697) /* The operators */ Haskell-like types, some new operators
23:29:25 * boily lightly mapoles FireFly
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23:55:55 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:55:55 <lambdabot> CYUL 102331Z 21007G19KT 5SM -RA FEW014 OVC030 06/05 A2913 RMK SF2SC6 PRESRR SLP868
23:56:13 <boily> int-e: int-ello. lambdabot was dropped from stackage LTS-4.0 :(
23:57:44 -!- ais523 has quit.
23:59:22 <oerjan> shocking. i think int-e isn't here at the moment...
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