←2016-01-13 2016-01-14 2016-01-15→ ↑2016 ↑all
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01:24:52 <tswett> `? dy
01:24:59 <HackEgo> dy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:25:13 <tswett> `le/rn dy/dx = y
01:25:17 <HackEgo> Learned «dy»
01:25:19 <tswett> `? dy
01:25:23 <HackEgo> dx = y
01:25:32 <tswett> Yeah whatever.
01:26:15 <oerjan> that's not very generally true.
01:27:39 <shachaf> it's only moderately generally true?
01:28:56 <oerjan> well it's true for a small, but important set of functions.
01:29:45 <shachaf> please explain and expand twh
01:30:04 <oerjan> f(x) = C*exp(x) hth
01:30:13 <tswett> th
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01:31:14 <tswett> learn hth is short for "hang that heretic".
01:31:15 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm glad we have an expert here to explicate an express answer
01:31:37 <tswett> oerjan is quite the exponent of mathematics.
01:31:39 <oerjan> tswett: hey don't reveal my secrets tdnh
01:32:32 <hppavilion[1]> math**math = oerjan
01:32:33 * oerjan trying to remember the elegant proof of that fact he learned in differential equations class (maybe)
01:32:45 <tswett> twh = "that wicked heretic!"
01:32:57 <shachaf> oerjan is such an expert that e, to the xth degree, explodes with these expressions
01:33:14 <tswett> tdnh = "that demonic, nasty heretic!"
01:34:59 <hppavilion[1]> `foolishness
01:35:05 <shachaf> oerjan: come on, not even a poke from the flypoker?
01:35:06 <hppavilion[1]> :-(
01:38:12 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: bth
01:38:36 <hppavilion[1]> tdh = that dirty heretic?
01:38:38 <tswett> It's obvious what "btw" stands for.
01:39:31 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: rofl
01:39:52 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: omgroflmao
01:40:06 <oerjan> d(exp(-x) * y)/dx = exp(-x) * dy/dx - exp(-x) * y = 0 => exp(-x) * y = C
01:40:15 <oerjan> something like that.
01:42:32 <oerjan> shachaf: i consider those alliterations, not puns. no poke, hth
01:44:09 <oerjan> <tswett> It's obvious what "btw" stands for. <-- obviously. btw do you happen to weigh more or less than a duck twh
01:44:27 <oerjan> `? btw
01:44:29 <HackEgo> btw? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:44:57 <oerjan> `learn btw is short for "burn the witch".
01:45:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'btw': btw is short for "burn the witch".
01:46:28 * oerjan recalls his mother couldn't visit swimming pools because she sank like a stone. so i guess she wasn't a witch, despite all the divinations.
01:47:20 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: WRONG
01:47:21 <oerjan> or well, something like that.
01:47:29 <hppavilion[1]> `learn btw is short for "bury the weasel"
01:47:31 <HackEgo> Learned 'btw': btw is short for "bury the weasel"
01:47:31 <hppavilion[1]> Duh.
01:47:52 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: excuse me, you are ruining tswett's joke tdnh
01:48:23 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: aamof, tdh a yjct
01:48:26 <hppavilion[1]> byd
01:48:48 <oerjan> also, if you thought that when omgroflmaoing, i'm wondering about your sense of humor.
01:49:02 <hppavilion[1]> ("as a matter of fact, that did help and you just can't tell")
01:49:24 <oerjan> hey i was just getting to the a
01:49:40 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: When I said "omgroflmao", I wanted him to decrypt it xD
01:49:53 <oerjan> OKAY
01:51:20 <hppavilion[1]> Imma make a programming language entirely like all known programming languages
01:51:31 <oerjan> ...huh
01:51:36 <oerjan> the anti-intercal
01:51:58 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Including INTERCAL
01:52:04 <hppavilion[1]> Sorry, thought I said "including INTERCAL"
01:52:20 <hppavilion[1]> But I started the message with a slash forgetting that that commands it
01:52:41 <oerjan> wat
01:53:45 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: A language following the philosophy of intercal, but that includes INTERCAL in what it wants to avoid
01:54:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Also, it has some modern languages (e.g. PROLOG and Haskell and Python) in mind in its design
01:54:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: So it's derived from taking that and not being like it
01:54:21 <hppavilion[1]> If that makes any sense
01:54:34 <hppavilion[1]> I call it: INTERCAL 2.sqrt(5)
01:55:51 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: um in that case i think you mistyped your original sentence because it clearly says "like" hth
01:56:09 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: "unlike"
01:56:10 <hppavilion[1]> sorry
01:56:12 <hppavilion[1]> xD
01:56:25 <oerjan> i thought it was more interesting with "like" somehow
01:56:26 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But "entirely like" is also a good idea for a language
01:56:40 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes, I can see how that idea would be interesting.
01:56:41 <oerjan> i mean, intercal is already done.
01:56:47 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But not with modern languages
01:56:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: INTERCAL is a period piece
01:57:50 <hppavilion[1]> This is like the Wishbone of esoprogramming- adapting a classic to those who grew up on more "modern" material
02:03:23 <oerjan> mhm
02:15:28 <hppavilion[1]> Here's an idea for INTERCAL 2.sqrt(5)
02:16:08 <hppavilion[1]> Two new operators
02:16:12 <hppavilion[1]> Label and Delabel
02:16:36 <hppavilion[1]> Label is written ['labelname']<expression>
02:16:56 <hppavilion[1]> Delabel is written #'labelname' or something like that
02:17:19 <hppavilion[1]> Delabel JUMPs within the AST (so more complicated than an ASM jump) to the DELABEL
02:17:27 <hppavilion[1]> It runs the program from there until it GIVE UPs
02:18:24 <hppavilion[1]> Then, the exit code is produced from the earlier \$'labelname' subexpression
02:18:36 <hppavilion[1]> Or something along those lines
02:19:50 <hppavilion[1]> *#'labelname'
02:22:03 <hppavilion[1]> Possibly, another kind of label that behaves like this: (5{'lab'}-1)+('lab'#0)
02:22:24 <hppavilion[1]> It's equal to 5+4+3+2+1+0 = 15
02:22:32 <hppavilion[1]> In-expression label.
02:32:43 <hppavilion[1]> Another idea for an Esolang
02:32:47 <hppavilion[1]> Multiple languages
02:33:13 <hppavilion[1]> And the languages use a persistent interpreter that uses previous languages to mess with newer languages
02:33:29 <coppro> how about a language where every program is a polyglot
02:33:37 <coppro> except function calls must be from one language to the other
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04:44:31 <myname> hppavilion[2]: are you familiar with call/cc?
04:45:44 <shachaf> i,i call/cc-with-current-continuation
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05:01:01 <adu> oops did I just break everything?
05:02:42 <oerjan> adu: no, that's fine see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Subtle_cough
05:03:20 <oerjan> it's ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)) you need to watch out for.
05:45:53 <oerjan> *BOOM*
05:49:49 * zgrep slowly collects all the pieces of adu's mind and glues them back together, because somebody has to
05:50:15 <oerjan> thank god i was afraid i'd have to do it
05:50:32 <zgrep> I got you covered... for now.
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05:56:21 * adu feels better, now
06:01:19 <hppavilion[2]> myname: I've tried to be
06:02:08 <hppavilion[2]> myname: Is that what I came up with? xD
06:02:24 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
06:02:41 <hppavilion[1]> Who's this hppavilion[2] you speak of?
06:02:42 <adu> I don't know anymore
06:02:47 <hppavilion[1]> xD
06:02:58 <myname> i'd say it's pretty close
06:03:01 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I'm making a language entirely like all known languages, INCLUDING Intercal
06:03:04 <hppavilion[1]> (INTERCAL)
06:03:18 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Maybe it's like call/em?
06:03:34 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Wisdom is not the #esoteric way!
06:03:39 <hppavilion[1]> Well, except for `wisdom
06:03:49 <zgrep> How about wise domes?
06:04:09 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Ah, those should really be called "Wise Spheres"
06:04:26 <zgrep> Oh, half of them are simply underground?
06:04:30 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: They encircle the entirety of the area, really. Not just the top
06:04:32 <adu> Well, I've been learning boring Python
06:05:00 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Good for keeping the wisdom sealed in and fresh
06:05:18 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Would you like me to offer my trign code? Good for negative hyperoperations
06:05:26 <zgrep> hppavilion[1]: I thought you said no wisdom, only `wisdom?
06:05:46 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Oh right
06:05:57 <hppavilion[1]> adu: To be clear, "trigns" are numbers with three signs
06:06:06 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Also, I haven't finished it yet xD
06:06:32 * zgrep wouldn't mind knowing how to figure out what "trign code that is good for negative hyperoperations" means...
06:06:51 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: It's code that implements the trigsn
06:06:54 <hppavilion[1]> *trigns
06:06:54 <adu> zgrep: start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperoperation
06:06:59 <hppavilion[1]> And the trigns are good for hyperoperations
06:07:10 <hppavilion[1]> (Negative ones especially)
06:07:28 <hppavilion[1]> (Because it has two negatives)
06:08:13 <hppavilion[1]> adu: What should the properties of the trigns be?
06:08:23 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I think that the trigns are a good idea
06:08:42 <hppavilion[1]> adu: They make negative hyperoperations logical and complete
06:08:51 <adu> hppavilion[1]: well, they would have to be perpendicular with each other, obviously
06:08:54 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Also, I don't remember your point from last time
06:09:03 <hppavilion[1]> Like, another axis?
06:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> Bah!
06:09:14 <hppavilion[1]> They're all at 60 degrees from the others!
06:09:22 <hppavilion[1]> Because confusingness!
06:09:43 <hppavilion[1]> (60 degrees /is/ perpendicular in Trign Geometry)
06:09:52 <hppavilion[1]> That works too :,(
06:09:58 <hppavilion[1]> But trigns are more fun
06:10:13 <hppavilion[1]> And we can just use a piecewise function that amalgamates those together
06:10:21 <adu> and to try and make these 3 sequences into a single sequence indexed by esoteric numbers, is well, too esoteric for my tastes
06:10:45 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Then you are not a TRUE Scotsman
06:10:53 <hppavilion[1]> s/Scotsman/Esolanger/
06:11:18 <hppavilion[1]> adu: It's not much more eso than Imaginary Numbers, IMHO
06:11:23 <hppavilion[1]> Shall we consult ##math?
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06:12:10 <vodkode> What is with this 'flat earth' stuff being the new thing?
06:12:28 <hppavilion[1]> vodkode: It's not the "new" thing
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06:12:38 <vodkode> Well, new trend
06:12:39 <hppavilion[1]> vodkode: It's been around for a while now
06:12:53 <hppavilion[1]> vodkode: That trend isn't too recent, at least in internet time
06:13:25 <vodkode> it's rocketed waaaay up in 2015 from what I can tell, tons upon tons of YT videos and people debating it (as if its a debate)
06:13:40 <vodkode> I have no clue what the catalyst is for this kind of nonsense
06:13:55 <hppavilion[1]> vodkode: It's probably eggshells
06:14:14 <hppavilion[1]> Which could be some complex metaphor I don't know about
06:16:03 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Out of curiosity, is there some logical way to do log the same way root(x, n) = x**(1/n)?
06:16:57 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps log(x, n) = root(x, f(n))?
06:17:58 <hppavilion[1]> If there is, then my "trign" idea could probably be justified by lining up the trigns' properties with the relationship between them
06:18:58 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Perhaps we should turn attention away from the reals for a bit and look to the positive Gaussians
06:19:05 <mauris> well, log(x, n) = ln(x) / ln(n)
06:20:08 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: But is there any relationship with root and pow?
06:21:27 <mauris> not really! you might be thinking: root/pow form a pair the way exp/log do
06:21:50 <mauris> but while root is really a special case of pow (where the exponent is a fraction like you mentioned) that isn't true for exp/log.
06:22:01 <mauris> so there isn't a way to write one in terms of the other
06:25:39 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: What's the difference between exp and pow
06:27:02 <mauris> i guess it's a matter of perspective
06:27:04 <mauris> root-like functions are inverses of f(x) = x^n for some n
06:27:10 <mauris> log-like functions are inverses of f(x) = n^x for some n
06:28:01 <adu> hppavilion[1]: "to do log the same way"?
06:29:47 <hppavilion[1]> adu: The same way root is exponentiation to the reciprocal
06:29:51 <hppavilion[1]> of the index
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06:36:18 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any other kinds of call/<x> besides call/cc and call/em?
06:37:05 <adu> hppavilion[1]: theres the power series
06:37:18 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
06:37:27 <hppavilion[1]> You weren't referring to that question, where you xD
06:37:58 <adu> log(x) = sum((-1)^(n + 1)*(x - 1)^n/n, n=1..infinity)
06:40:03 <adu> or, my favorite, -log(1 - x) = sum(x^n/n, n=1..infinity)
06:42:02 <adu> theres also the indefinite integral
07:04:06 <hppavilion[1]> Is there somewhere online I can find a massive database of the curry-howard correspondence?
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07:48:39 <hppavilion[1]> Could we roll Set Theory into Curry/Howard/Lambek on the grounds that a set can be represented as a bitstring where each bit corresponds to an item's presence in said set relative to the "universe", and since bitstrings support logical connectives naturally?
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07:53:52 <mroman> fnard
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09:32:03 <oerjan> ah the style change on aaronson's blog was something stupid wordpress did
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10:08:58 <mroman> there's a style?
10:09:42 <mroman> oh
10:09:46 <mroman> nm.
10:09:48 <mroman> *nvm
10:12:33 <b_jonas> fungot, are you back?
10:12:33 <fungot> b_jonas: also sure you won't do concurrent befunge? fizzie has managed to make a stack based imperative one, 1 pushes 1, 2
10:12:47 <b_jonas> uh, dunno
10:31:50 <Taneb> Galois Theory: why the shape of the football makes solving polynomials harder
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11:30:05 <boily> `wisdom
11:30:18 <HackEgo> bdsm/BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it.
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11:33:39 <int-e> `culprits wisdom/bdsm
11:33:42 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan elliott Taneb Taneb
11:37:30 <int-e> `quote BDSM
11:37:32 <HackEgo> No output.
11:38:08 <int-e> <Taneb> `learn BDSM is just a kind of LARP <HackEgo> I knew that. <kmc> c.c <Taneb> Please do not say that I invented it
11:43:59 <boily> int-ello.
11:44:12 <boily> Taneb: Tanelle. mwah ah ah.
11:47:20 <fizzie> "We have tried to send you this email as HTML (pictures and words) but it wasn’t possible. In order for you to see what we had hoped to show you please click here to view online in your browser: --"
11:47:29 <fizzie> Well, that's one way to convert your text/html emails to text/plain.
11:47:57 <fizzie> `learn HTML is just pictures and words.
11:48:01 <HackEgo> Learned 'html': HTML is just pictures and words.
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11:54:38 <b_jonas> `learn links are one of the very few HTML renderers that don't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter to a separate element.
11:54:41 <HackEgo> Learned 'link': links are one of the very few HTML renderers that don't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter to a separate element.
11:54:46 <b_jonas> no! you fool
11:55:00 <b_jonas> `` mv -i wisdom/link{,s}
11:55:05 <HackEgo> No output.
11:55:07 <HackEgo> links are one of the very few HTML renderers that don't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter to a separate element.
12:08:21 <boily> there is such a thing as... aaargh. ow. no. a PDF converter that put individual letters into tens of tens of thousands of millions of elements?
12:08:29 <boily> even for something that involves PDFs, that's low!
12:08:32 <boily> eeeeew.
12:10:09 <b_jonas> boily: no, mostly they just put every word into an element, or each part of the word separated by kerns, so basically they put an element anywhere TeX emits a glue to the DVI
12:10:26 <b_jonas> Putting every letter to a separate element is much rarer.
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12:16:32 <ais523> b_jonas: I have a PDF-to-other-formats converter, it genuinely does use an element per letter when converting to HTML
12:16:41 <ais523> in order to get the layout on the page exactly the same
12:16:44 <ais523> this makes it mostly useless
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12:19:22 <FireFly> `? BDSM
12:19:23 <HackEgo> BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it.
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12:22:39 <b_jonas> Would a sorcery with the exact ability of Safe Passage costing {WW} be overpowered?
12:23:58 <b_jonas> ais523: the heavyweight elements is the main reason why I hate SVG used as a general vector format, as opposed to PDF. SVG basically _forces_ you to make vector drawings with tons of heavy objects.
12:25:34 <b_jonas> There's canvas of course, which doesn't do that, but canvas is worse than postscript in that documents using it need a full interpreter of a general purpose language and the document can have lots of unintended side effects besides drawing that you have to be careful about.
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12:28:20 <fizzie> The "need a full interpreter of a general purpose language" part doesn't sound that different from PostScript.
12:29:14 <fizzie> (Windows Metafiles to the rescue?)
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12:59:52 <tswett> A language unlike all other programming languages, eh?
12:59:58 <tswett> That's what I tend to go for with my languages.
13:00:14 <tswett> Proce is the one that comes to mind.
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13:03:19 <tswett> Proce as currently defined might be broken, allowing you to take advantage of discretization artifacts.
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13:09:27 <b_jonas> fizzie: the sandbox for postscript is better. canvas requires a full browser, with lots of information leaks and stuff.
13:29:06 <mroman> does it put each letter into a span or what?
13:29:16 <mroman> also the HTML file will be huge then :)
13:29:34 <mroman> > length \$ "<span></span>"
13:29:36 <lambdabot> 13
13:29:43 <mroman> that's at least 14 bytes per letter
13:30:04 <mroman> that's pretty much as terrible as my image to html converter
13:30:24 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/output.html
13:30:27 <mroman> but at least it looks good :D
13:31:29 <mroman> although that one has RLE and color reduction turned on
13:31:36 <mroman> so it's not too bad as far as size goes
13:32:28 <Taneb> mroman, could you get that down using a colour pallete and CSS?
13:33:00 <mroman> probably
13:33:05 <mroman> I've never tried that
13:33:10 <mroman> but that would be a nice step to take
13:33:39 <mroman> the good thing is that this way I can send dick pics to people without having them detected
13:34:00 <mroman> also google image search will never index my pics
13:35:46 <mroman> oh wait
13:35:56 <mroman> no that online version has no colour reduction apparentely
13:36:07 <mroman> hm
13:36:12 <mroman> let me look on my disc
13:38:53 <b_jonas> mroman: hehe, I've seen images drawn with tables, but only smaller ones, up to 64x64 pixels or something.
13:40:12 <b_jonas> mroman: and the "14 bytes per letter" is missing the point. the bytes aren't the heavy cost, the in-memory heavy objects with tons of properties is. and they're not easy to avoid in current html renderers because javascript can modify anything after which the page has to be re-rendered.
13:40:40 <b_jonas> even without javascript, CSS can do some fancy things to change the page when you modify the width of the browser or you scroll or something.
13:41:07 <mroman> > 1748859 / 1024
13:41:09 <lambdabot> 1707.8701171875
13:41:18 <mroman> > 1748859 / 1024 / 1024
13:41:20 <lambdabot> 1.667841911315918
13:41:32 <mroman> that output.html is 1.6MB apparentely
13:41:50 <b_jonas> [ 1748859%2^20
13:41:51 <j-bot> b_jonas: 1.66784
13:43:15 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/output_reduced.html <- this is way smaller
13:43:22 <mroman> although the decrease in quality is noticable
13:43:42 <mroman> but I haven't tested it with dick pics yet so ...
13:43:46 <mroman> it might still serve the purpose
13:45:39 <mroman> is <p/> allowed?
13:46:12 <mroman> looks like it
13:46:32 <mroman> that would shave off 60kb
13:47:25 <mroman> maybe background can be replaced with bg
13:47:27 <mroman> I don't know
13:51:44 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/mandel.html
13:51:45 <mroman> :D
13:55:09 <b_jonas> mroman: if there are repeated colors and/or widths, you could reduce stuff with classes instead of inline style I think.
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14:15:36 <mroman> i'm using rle for width
14:15:45 <mroman> width:8px and such
14:16:17 <mroman> if a color is repeated I just increase the width
14:17:16 <mroman> but you mean like .f { background:#...; width:5px; }?
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14:21:35 <b_jonas> mroman: possibly, but probably more like sepraate classes for background and width
14:23:07 <b_jonas> eg <style thingy>.f { background: lime } .g { width: 5px }</style> and later <b class="f g"/>
14:26:15 <mroman> hm
14:26:58 <mroman> > 16*16*16
14:27:00 <lambdabot> 4096
14:27:08 <mroman> > 256 * 128
14:27:10 <lambdabot> 32768
14:37:55 <fizzie> "Please my dear the entire supreme court Of Ecowas Benin Republic are here to make it clear to you that there was a case that was been handling in this Ecowas since January 5th 2015 concerning your funds because we got some reports that you did not received your funds since after every stories you heard regarding the funds and all type of payments you have be paid to receive the funds but none ...
14:38:01 <fizzie> ... is received by you."
14:38:04 <fizzie> Man, that's a long sentence.
14:40:26 <b_jonas> fungot, Please my dear the entire supreme court Of Ecowas Benin Republic are here to make it clear to you that there was a case that was been handling your funds.
14:40:27 <fungot> b_jonas: i haskell, i have some
14:42:06 <mroman> fungot: turn down for what?
14:42:07 <fungot> mroman: i've already seen multiple in the block i live in connecticut. the hills were young."
14:42:16 <mroman> fungot: seen what?
14:42:16 <fungot> mroman: so a good alternative name for the procedure
15:09:47 <coppro> fizzie: can we implement a fungot module for that
15:09:47 <fungot> coppro: ther smerdy startin again? it seems to dtrt. i'm going to
15:10:44 <zgrep> fungot: Why are you?
15:10:44 <fungot> zgrep: if my memory serves me well enough to do it
15:10:52 <zgrep> Apparently it doesn't.
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15:20:41 <b_jonas> Oh, great, OGW prints a Turn to Frog variant for just {U}
15:36:43 <fizzie> For what, spam?
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15:56:42 <b_jonas> No, more for creatures with annoying abilities
15:56:59 <b_jonas> Especially static ones.
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16:20:56 <int-e> Iwn,dddw!
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17:12:00 <Taneb> One of my lecturers just used the term "quadrupleton set"
17:14:00 <Taneb> "Me and lambda have a history"
17:14:30 <int-e> `? lambda
17:14:33 <HackEgo> lambda? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:14:43 <int-e> `? lamda
17:14:45 <HackEgo> lamda? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:14:52 <int-e> `? lambda calculus
17:14:52 <HackEgo> lambda calculus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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17:21:52 <Taneb> Hmm
17:22:00 <Taneb> I didn't know Effi's did waffle
17:22:00 <Taneb> s
17:22:12 <Taneb> I presume that's referring to the pizza takeaway in York?
17:23:49 <int-e> maybe it does now
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17:24:00 * int-e was just looking for a name with "ffi".
17:24:19 <int-e> ir ﬃ
17:25:29 <int-e> (Actually I thought of Effi Briest for some reason... perhaps I should read the book to see what it's about.)
17:26:09 <int-e> But I suspect that waffles don't feature prominently in that story.
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17:57:09 <oren> @tell \oren\ don't forget about the RS-20
17:57:09 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:59:15 <izabera> alan rickman died of cancer
18:00:47 <oren> no idea who that is
18:01:37 <izabera> snape
18:01:53 <oren> oh. he was a great actor
18:06:11 <myname> i wonder how many mange readers are in here
18:07:24 <myname> manga even
18:09:01 <myname> do you have recommendations that aren't kinda obvious?
18:10:52 <oren> for what genre
18:11:50 <myname> preferibly slice of life/character developing. just read bitter virgin and am reading aku no hana right now
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18:18:10 <oren> Hmm. The ones i've read that aren't all that popular afaik are the manga of ARIA (Kozue Amano).
18:20:40 <oren> Also Kimi ni todoke
18:26:07 <myname> will have a look
18:36:26 <Phantom_Hoover> izabera, it's a bad week to be a 69-year old with cancer
18:36:33 <izabera> yeah
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19:35:16 <hppavilion[1]> What does negation Curry-Howard correspond to?
19:35:29 <hppavilion[1]> p is a type, so what's ~p?
19:36:14 <mauris> p -> Void
19:36:26 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: Oh
19:36:36 <mauris> (functions from p to a type that contains *no values at all*)
19:37:17 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: My god...
19:37:42 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: And &? Wiki gives me the product type, so tuples
19:37:46 <mauris> if p is empty (false), the type is inhabited (by the empty function that maps nothing to nothing), but as soon as p is inhabited (true), we need to map from some p value to something in codomain, but there's no way to pick anything, so p -> Void can't be inhabited.
19:37:58 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: I tried that with Modus Ponens
19:38:04 <hppavilion[1]> It made no sense to me
19:38:12 <hppavilion[1]> (P & (P -> Q) -> Q
19:38:15 <mauris> what'd you try?
19:38:35 <hppavilion[1]> Which is, in haskell if that's correct, (P, (P -> Q)) -> Q
19:38:41 <hppavilion[1]> So the APPLY function?
19:38:48 <mauris> @djinn (p, p -> q) -> q
19:38:48 <lambdabot> f (a, b) = b a
19:38:50 <hppavilion[1]> But which accepts a tuple?
19:38:55 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
19:39:24 <hppavilion[1]> Wait. How does that even work?
19:39:40 <mauris> the @djinn command? ~magic~
19:39:46 <mauris> but modus ponens is basically application, yeah!
19:40:02 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: No, how does (p, p -> q) -> q become that?
19:40:27 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: I know that modus ponens if application; wiki said so, so I was using that as practice
19:40:59 <mauris> the @djinn command takes a type and... by some complicated process, thinks up a value that has that type
19:41:24 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: Ah. But how does f (a, b) = b a even have that... OH!
19:41:50 <mauris> maybe "f (p, g) = g p" is clearer?
19:42:40 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: Yes, I figured it out xD
19:42:47 <hppavilion[1]> That was the "OH!"
19:42:51 <mauris> anyway, if you give @djinn simple curry-howard thingies, it can do "proofs" (because a function inhabiting some type ≈ a proof that some logic predicate holds)
19:44:43 <b_jonas> @djinn () -> Void
19:44:44 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
19:44:46 <mauris> it can handle some pretty cool things
19:44:49 <mauris> @djinn (Either a b, Either a c) -> Either a (b, c)
19:44:49 <lambdabot> f (a, b) =
19:44:49 <lambdabot> case a of
19:44:49 <lambdabot> Left c -> Left c
19:44:49 <lambdabot> Right d -> case b of
19:44:49 <lambdabot> Left e -> Left e
19:44:51 <lambdabot> Right f -> Right (d, f)
19:45:11 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: So... what's modus tollens?
19:45:42 <hppavilion[1]> Either ((F, (P -> F)) -> F) ((T, (P -> T)) -> T) is what I got from it
19:45:48 <b_jonas> @djinn (a, (b, c)) -> (c, (b, a))
19:45:48 <lambdabot> f (a, (b, c)) = (c, (b, a))
19:45:54 <hppavilion[1]> On the assumption ~Void = Unit
19:45:59 <hppavilion[1]> And Void = F, Unit = True
19:46:50 <hppavilion[1]> Wait. Is it K? No, that can't be right...
19:47:11 <mauris> wikipedia says modus tollens is just: P -> Q and NOT Q ==> NOT P right?
19:47:24 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: That's what I got
19:47:32 <mauris> @djinn (p -> q, q -> Void) -> (p -> Void)
19:47:32 <lambdabot> f (a, b) c = b (a c)
19:47:46 <mauris> @djinn ((p -> q), (q -> Void)) -> (p -> Void) -- parens for clarity
19:47:46 <lambdabot> Cannot parse command
19:47:52 <mauris> rip
19:48:15 <mauris> anyway, you can use currying nicely here! do you know about that?
19:49:01 <mauris> (you don't *need* it, but that's what lambdabot did there)
19:49:13 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: I know what currying is
19:49:30 <mauris> ah
19:50:53 <mauris> well, essentially p → q and q → Void are your two steps to a contradiction
19:51:49 <mauris> my recommendation: you should play http://incredible.pm/ if you enjoy this and want it gamified. it's lots of fun!
19:52:32 <mauris> solving the problems on there is a lot like writing a function like @djinn does
19:53:02 <shachaf> incredible proof, mauris
19:53:20 <shachaf> the amazing mauris and his educated rodents
19:54:51 <shachaf> The main thing I remember from that book is the word "cooperate".
19:55:17 <shachaf> Which I pronounced as "coop-erate" since I didn't know how it was pronounced.
19:56:05 <mauris> pronouncing words wrong cause you've only ever read them is great
19:56:19 <mauris> how was i supposed to guess "colonel"??
19:57:00 <shachaf> they don't call torvals "the linux colonel" for nothing
19:57:15 <shachaf> lds
19:58:41 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn ((p -> q) -> p) -> q
19:58:41 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
19:58:54 <hppavilion[1]> Whoops
19:58:58 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn ((p -> q) -> p) -> p
19:58:58 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
19:59:05 <hppavilion[1]> Huh
19:59:16 <shachaf> @djinn-add type Cont r a = (a -> r) -> r
19:59:20 <shachaf> @djinn ((p -> Cont r q) -> Cont r p) -> Cont r p
19:59:20 <lambdabot> f a b = a (\ c _ -> b c) b
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22:12:03 <Mossa_Mossa> No, not the esolang community!
22:12:07 <Mossa_Mossa> Fugg Internet is dense.
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22:12:25 <fizzie> Uh.
22:23:11 <FireFly> Maybe they took a wrong turn and ended up here
22:28:33 <izabera> https://github.com/VerbalExpressions/JSVerbalExpressions
22:29:30 <izabera> because regex is hard
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23:28:11 <boily> hellørjan.
23:29:35 <oerjan> boheily
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23:45:47 <Edu1> :)
23:46:02 <izabera> `welcome Edu1
23:46:06 <HackEgo> Edu1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:48:25 <Edu1> soy de venzuela
23:49:06 <boily> `welcome.es Edu1
23:49:06 <izabera> do you also speak english? <.<
23:49:19 <boily> argh. what was the spanish version again?
23:49:25 <oerjan> `bienvenido Edu1
23:49:26 <HackEgo> Edu1: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
23:49:44 <int-e> `` echo wisdom/wecome*
23:49:45 <boily> Edu1: ¿hablá usted inglés?
23:49:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/wecome
23:49:49 <int-e> `` echo wisdom/welcome*
23:49:50 <HackEgo> wisdom/welcome wisdom/welcome.bork wisdom/welcome.eo wisdom/welcome.es wisdom/welcome.fi wisdom/welcome.fr wisdom/welcome.nl wisdom/welcome.sv
23:49:55 <Edu1> no
23:50:18 <Edu1> no hablo ingles
23:53:09 <boily> ¿conoces brainfuck? está el más popular de los lenguajes esotéricos: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
23:58:48 <tswett> Hola Edu1.
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