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00:15:13 <boily> XorSwap: XellorSwap. who are you at now up?
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00:54:43 <zgrep> And how about at later down?
00:55:17 <int-e> Have you been taking grammar lessons from fungot?
00:55:17 <fungot> int-e: the idea for a lossless udp mass transfer protocol minimizing acks. thus no disturbance when walking in the fnord it covers a huge chunk of unlabeled assembly in a language until it converges
00:55:56 <int-e> f-NOOOOOH!!!!!-rd...
00:58:09 <fungot> shachaf: for example lambda is also a wide spectrum of beliefs regarding what the right answer. that's one of the patches
00:58:20 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
00:58:29 <shachaf> where's the calvin and hobbes style twh
00:59:27 <int-e> well, one would need transcripts... and perhaps worry about copyright
01:00:33 <shachaf> I imagine that a Markov chain is fair use.
01:01:25 <fizzie> int-e: I think that was actually just a fjord.
01:01:30 <int-e> But character names may be tricky. I dunno.
01:01:52 <fungot> Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations)
01:02:12 <fizzie> In the sense that it costs money, and I'm not exactly sure what our license allows for.
01:02:38 <fizzie> I don't think I ever even found the license terms.
01:02:46 <shachaf> If I sent you a corpus, would you add it?
01:02:54 <fizzie> If someone asks, fungot's a research project.
01:02:54 <fungot> fizzie: ( ( laughter)) someone and they called yesterday and so i
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01:03:15 <fizzie> Maybe. You can bump up the likelihood by doing all the work.
01:03:19 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
01:03:24 <shachaf> fungot: What are you researching?
01:03:24 <fungot> shachaf: ( read) `3))) but i can't recall what chicken does about that amaranth and they use ascii...
01:03:37 <shachaf> fizzie: What sort of work?
01:03:52 <fizzie> shachaf: https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/varikn/readme.txt <- that sort of.
01:03:52 <fungot> fizzie: what about? :) fnord/ fnord/ web/ fnord/ fnord " java is slow if you're using a terminal app, though
01:03:58 <fizzie> (Also the instructions are not quite right.)
01:04:26 <hppavilion[1]> LinuxLive USB creator is /supposed/ to create a bootable USB stick, right?
01:04:27 <int-e> fungot: what do you think of deep learning?
01:04:27 <fungot> int-e: it was funny when the url fnord depends on the ' net
01:04:37 <int-e> good answer, I guess
01:04:56 <fizzie> The varikn link is broken, it lives in github and the version 1.0.2 is outdated; don't use the example -D and -E parameter, they're not good; maybe something else as well.
01:07:17 <fizzie> Here's a random guess: it's making an old-style bootable thing, and your computer is set to UEFI only. Or vice versa.
01:09:00 <shachaf> fizzie: That sounds like a mess.
01:09:36 <shachaf> fizzie: http://www.s-anand.net/comic.calvin.jsz
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01:11:59 <fizzie> I will try to motivate myself to have a look, but not today.
01:13:03 <int-e> needs some cleanup anyway... removing the dates, splitting into sentences...
01:14:33 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: well, for all I know, you're just human
01:15:05 <hppavilion[1]> I'm clearly a dwarf and I'm digging a hole; diggy diggy hole.
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01:16:56 <int-e> hah, must've hit a cable
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01:33:32 <oerjan> or maybe he fell down it
01:34:05 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/mauri{s,}
01:34:11 <HackEgo> maur is the correct spelling
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01:40:33 <mauri> mauri's the correct spelling hth
01:40:46 <mauri> (i literally forgot to type an s and rolled with it)
01:45:22 <fizzie> It's a Finnish first name.
01:46:04 <boily> I knew mauri's secretly Finnish.
01:47:06 <fizzie> 16005 Finns with that name currently.
01:47:27 <fizzie> Oh, no: just in total.
01:47:47 <mauri> a quick count, i presume
01:48:03 <shachaf> How many Finns are there with the name Shachaf?
01:49:23 <fizzie> That's funny: the surname search does distinguish between live, dead (and people who changed surnames), but the first name search just gives a total of living and died-with-that-name (since some year).
01:50:27 <fizzie> "Less than five", which it what it says when there are less than five. Otherwise it gives an exact count.
01:50:55 <fizzie> Less than five born between 1980-1999, zero in other years.
01:51:05 <shachaf> There are more than five with my last name.
01:51:07 <mauri> is less than five more than zero?
01:52:11 <lambdabot> No instance for (Ord a0) arising from a use of ‘<’
01:52:11 <lambdabot> The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous
01:52:11 <lambdabot> Note: there are several potential instances:
01:52:37 <fizzie> Still 10 currently with my surname.
01:52:53 <lambdabot> No instance for (Ord a0) arising from a use of ‘<’
01:52:53 <lambdabot> The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous
01:52:53 <lambdabot> Note: there are several potential instances:
01:53:08 <boily> there's something wrong with that, but what.
01:53:15 <lambdabot> No instance for (Ord (Int -> Bool))
01:53:15 <lambdabot> (maybe you haven't applied enough arguments to a function?)
01:53:28 <mauri> > let x ==> y = not x || y in quickCheck (\x -> (x < 5) ==> (x > 0))
01:53:29 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘Integer -> Bool’
01:53:29 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘QuickCheck-2.8.1:Test.QuickCheck.Random.QC...
01:53:29 <lambdabot> The lambda expression ‘\ x -> (x < 5) ==> (x > 0)’
01:53:45 <fizzie> When in doubt, apply more arguments to a function.
01:54:41 <shachaf> @check (\x -> (x < 5) ==> (x > 0)) {- hth -}
01:54:43 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test):
01:54:58 <oerjan> @botsnack -- very efficient
01:55:15 <boily> when I meet a function I always apply an argument. functions love arguments.
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02:00:08 <boily> shachaf: did you un`relcome HackEgo?
02:00:48 <shachaf> HackEgo is just kind of broken right now.
02:01:17 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:01:35 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
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02:18:12 <fizzie> I was wondering if that earlier `relcome got in the same sort of stuck mode, but it's also being very slow in accepting a SSH.
02:18:43 <fizzie> Oh, it did say "No output."
02:18:46 <oerjan> the other day it was stuck for 10 min though, this was only one or two
02:19:03 <fizzie> I thought it was still pending.
02:22:57 <fizzie> I also wonder where all its memory is. free -m says (on the -/+ buffers/cache line) 1808 used, 204 free, but there isn't really any processes with a RSS of many megs, with the exception of mysql (370M) and a few php-fpms (<100M total), plus one memcached (20M). That doesn't really sound like it should make up 1800M.
02:26:25 <fizzie> (And it's not tmpfs either.)
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03:43:48 <izabera> http://zem.fi/2014-04-05-opquiz i'm doing worse than random
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03:51:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[HALT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46355&oldid=44795 * 76.102.163.231 * (-350)
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06:37:06 <hppavilion[1]> I'm trying to get a proper linux system (Ubuntu, specifically) running on my laptop
06:37:32 <hppavilion[1]> No matter what I try, my computer won't even boot the USB stick
06:38:17 <Elronnd> you messed with the BIOS and all?
06:38:26 <Elronnd> you sure ubuntu is properly on the USB?
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06:40:18 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Is it supposed to have an actual filesystem? xD
06:40:50 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: I tried messing with the BIOS, but it doesn't seem to have any options. Just "Press any key to continue"
06:41:08 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: on some systems there's a separate key to override boot order
06:41:09 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Please tell me that isn't something Microsoft did to block us from installing other OSes xD
06:41:19 <ais523> different from the BIOS override key
06:41:20 <Elronnd> I don't believe there's such a thing
06:41:31 <ais523> on this laptop it's one of the lower F keys, F5 I think (not 100% sure on that)
06:41:34 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: OK, OK. Seems like that'd be possible, at the very least
06:41:43 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: try hitting f12 or f5 or f2 or f1 or esc on boot
06:41:53 <Elronnd> before the OS (MS-Windows, presumable) is loaded
06:41:57 <ais523> however it does say which key it is at the bottom of the screen while it's booting
06:42:10 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: okay, so not that one
06:42:16 <Elronnd> but try all of those f-keys
06:42:27 <Elronnd> On my computer, f2 and f12 both do stuff
06:42:39 <ais523> most laptops nowadays have their hard drive first in the boot order to reduce issues with malware on USB sticks
06:42:54 <Elronnd> look up how to enter bios setup with $yourcomputer
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06:45:29 <Elronnd> ais523: you have a server, why don't you run ZNC on it so you don't miss stuff when your internet is being spotty or you have to quit?
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07:09:40 <ais523> huh, someone's made a StackFlow derivative with highly compressed syntax (it can do a truth-machine in three bytes)
07:09:48 <ais523> interesting idea; it wasn't intended as a golfing language at all
07:11:03 * izabera read it as a stackoverflow derivative and was thinking about a compressed q&a site
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07:17:59 <hppavilion[1]> Can we remove R.I.P. Marvin Minsky? The being-depressed-he's-dead time has expired
07:18:42 <hppavilion[1]> One of the things I restored was the session restore from the previous session
07:19:23 -!- Elronnd has set topic: The international hub for magic gathering and deployment. | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪.
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08:47:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46356&oldid=46338 * YoYoYonnY * (+90) /* Calculating the integer square root of x */
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09:08:57 <fizzie> @tell hppavilion[1] Careful, each nested instance of the restore session page involves escaping some things, so the storage use grows exponentially. I knew someone who had those things 20 deep, and the json file it puts that stuff in was hundreds of megs.
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09:12:35 <fizzie> @tell hppavilion[1] "foo" -> "\"foo"\" -> "\"\\\"foo\"\\\" -> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"foo\\\"\\\\\\\"" -> ...
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09:34:34 <izabera> is it possible to entirely get rid of pathological regex cases?
09:40:37 * izabera wants to learn more about this
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15:51:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[AnnieFlow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46357&oldid=46354 * FricativeMelon * (+25)
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18:19:19 <lambdabot> fizzie said 9h 10m 21s ago: Careful, each nested instance of the restore session page involves escaping some things, so the storage use grows exponentially. I knew someone who had those things 20 deep, and the json file it puts that stuff in was hundreds of megs.
18:19:19 <lambdabot> fizzie said 9h 6m 43s ago: "foo" -> "\"foo"\" -> "\"\\\"foo\"\\\" -> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"foo\\\"\\\\\\\"" -> ...
18:20:00 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Interesting. How can we exploit this knowledge?
18:20:13 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\...
18:21:07 <int-e> > iterate show "foo"
18:21:08 <lambdabot> ["foo","\"foo\"","\"\\\"foo\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"foo\\\\\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"...
18:24:09 <izabera> relevant http://xkcd.com/1638/
18:31:04 <ais523> clearly it needs a better escape format
18:31:57 <izabera> raw strings are the best thing ever
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19:01:19 <ais523> izabera: how do you nest them?
19:01:37 <ais523> some raw string formats allow arbitrarily complex brackets around the outside to allow nesting, but IIRC most don't
19:01:41 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Really? THE best thing ever? What about the holocaust
19:02:07 <ais523> well, I definitely prefer raw strings to the holocaust
19:02:18 <ais523> and I imagine almost everyone else does too
19:03:44 <ais523> that's what the "almost" is for
19:03:54 <b_jonas> ais523: sure, raw strings in C++ or lua are delimited that way, but that's not really what makes the strings *raw*
19:03:57 <izabera> pretty sure that at least neo-nazi programmers still prefer raw strings to the holocaust
19:04:14 <b_jonas> what makes the strings raw is that all the bytes inside it in the source code are taken literally, even the crlf or lf sequences.
19:04:35 <ais523> but this means you need to be very careful with how you terminate them
19:04:38 <ais523> as you can't escape the terminator
19:04:51 <ais523> I think Perl has "almost raw" strings where everything is taken literally except a backslash before the terminator
19:05:09 <izabera> "you can't escape the terminator" said arnold in terminator 7
19:05:35 <ais523> `perl-e print q(ab\)c)
19:05:39 <b_jonas> ais523: perl string literals always convert crlf to lf if they're read from a file (but not if evalled from a string), it's only *DATA{IO} that allows perfectly raw stuff
19:05:56 <ais523> b_jonas: that's a conversion on the file itself, though
19:06:13 <b_jonas> ais523: and q-strings in perl also treat double-backslash as an escape by the way
19:06:20 <ais523> Perl source files aren't a sequence of bytes they're a sequence of characters
19:06:23 <ais523> `perl-e print q(ab\\c)
19:06:32 <ais523> that defeats half the point :-)
19:06:45 <b_jonas> note that there's no escapes inside <<'foo' heredocs,
19:06:49 <b_jonas> but crlf is still converted
19:07:19 <ais523> b_jonas: no, the heredoc doesn't convert crlf
19:07:28 <b_jonas> maybe reading the source file does
19:07:30 <ais523> the /source file reader/ converts crlf before it's even parsed (also encoding, etc.)
19:07:53 <ais523> Perl doesn't use bytes, it uses characters, and this is the right way to do things
19:08:21 <b_jonas> ais523: maybe, but it's inconvenient
19:08:31 <hppavilion[1]> `quote <ais523> "Perl... is the right way to do things"
19:08:34 <b_jonas> why couldn't it convert the bytes to characters in the tokenizer EXCEPT in some tokens, like C++ does
19:08:51 <ais523> it's inconvenient to have non-ASCII characters not work properly
19:09:07 <ais523> b_jonas: say the source file's encoded in an ASCII-incompatible encoding
19:09:16 <ais523> like, say, ACME::Bleach
19:09:31 <ais523> someone writes a raw string marker in that encoding
19:09:39 <ais523> should they really get a bunch of whitespace?
19:09:48 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, so if you ask it, the tokenizer should interpret the bytes in a character string literal or identifyier. but this shouldn't be done to the whole file indiscriminately.
19:15:08 <hppavilion[1]> Make a series of virtual machines based on various cultures which made profound mathematical discovery
19:16:05 <hppavilion[1]> Basically, if that culture was around today, what would their computing look like?
19:17:04 <b_jonas> Oh, this reminds me. Of C compilers and other compilers to native code and assemblers, which ones have an easy directive to define a constant byte array whose values are taken as the raw bytes read from a file at compile time?
19:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: imho, EVERY compiled language should have compile-time functions
19:17:48 <b_jonas> There's various hacks to achieve something like that in C, but I wonder if some compiler or fancy new language has this built-in.
19:19:20 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Does it count as a language feature technically? Sounds more like a macro
19:20:01 <hppavilion[1]> I suggest a syntax something like ct_readf#(filename), where # is a macro-denoting symbol
19:20:31 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: I do think #esoteric should organize and produce a full-scale compiler for a new language that is esoteric, but we don't /tell/ anyone it is
19:21:10 <hppavilion[1]> From what I know about ancient egypt, they like fractions
19:21:13 <b_jonas> The various hacks include: (a) formatting the bytes in decimal or hexadecimal so the C compiler can read it directly, (b) putting an array with a shorter recognizable pattern at the start (like char foo[99999]="mUMGoGXWVo+zcFg9") then finding it in the object file and replacing it, (c)
19:21:19 <hppavilion[1]> So my "Egypt Machine" will include fractions as a builtin
19:22:03 <b_jonas> creating a new section with just that array, either in assembly or with non-portable extensions, then using objcopy (of binutils) to replace the contents of that section.
19:23:08 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: people already suggest that certain languages are actually esoteric, or were inteded to be a joke originally.
19:25:22 <b_jonas> (including C, Haskell, all APL-likes, perl, C++)
19:26:52 <ais523> b_jonas: I've seen assemblers which will take raw bytes from an external file
19:26:58 <ais523> normally with some directive like "incbin"
19:27:15 <b_jonas> ais523: really? hmm, let me check the docs of http://yasm.tortall.net/
19:27:55 <b_jonas> the GNU as docs says it has such a directive
19:28:45 <b_jonas> yasm too: http://www.tortall.net/projects/yasm/manual/html/nasm-pseudop.html#nasm-pseudop-incbin
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19:48:10 <b_jonas> I should really reinstally my machine
19:49:01 <b_jonas> the current install is so old and broken
19:49:19 <b_jonas> there's so many things I'd have to set up
19:49:39 <int-e> Well, personally I like the patina on old, sticky bits.
19:49:39 <b_jonas> still, I don't much have any choice
19:55:02 <b_jonas> int-e: sure, those bits aren't going anywhere
19:55:24 <hppavilion[1]> It has 7 instructions, and (although not minimized properly), it is (intentionally) /not/ turing-complete
19:55:47 <b_jonas> unless, you know, I mess up big time, or there's a hardware failure and I only bother to restore the new install
19:56:50 <hppavilion[1]> The instructions (which are represented as fractions in the code) are clr, inc, dec, glide, land, glidenz, landnz, incden, and decden
19:57:07 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: um, how is that 7?
19:57:30 <hppavilion[1]> There are infinitely many registers in theory, of types "holy" (fractional) and "non-holy" (integers)
19:57:47 <b_jonas> `perl -e @a = split /,\s*/ "clr, inc, dec, glide, land, glidenz, landnz, incden, and decden"; warn 0+@a, " instructions"
19:57:51 <HackEgo> String found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "/,\s*/ "clr, inc, dec, glide, land, glidenz, landnz, incden, and decden"" \ (Missing operator before "clr, inc, dec, glide, land, glidenz, landnz, incden, and decden"?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "/,\s*/ "clr, inc, dec, glide, land, glidenz, landnz, incden, and decden"" \ Execution o
19:58:03 <b_jonas> `perl -e @a = split /,\s*/, "clr, inc, dec, glide, land, glidenz, landnz, incden, and decden"; warn 0+@a, " instructions"
19:58:06 <HackEgo> 9 instructions at -e line 1.
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19:58:55 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: You write the instructions as a/b fractions, where a is the target register and b is the opcode (0..8)
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20:45:06 <quintopia> is there a constant time method to compute remainder mod b using only elementary operations?
20:45:48 <b_jonas> quintopia: um, what are the inputs?
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20:53:39 <quintopia> you may assume b is an integer greater than 1, and that x is a gaussian integer or half-integer or whatever else you like or need it to be
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20:56:22 <b_jonas> quintopia: and what do you count as elementary operations then?
20:58:58 <quintopia> a^b, log_a(b) and complex conjugation and any number of compositions of these in any order
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21:18:03 <hppavilion[1]> How do I do keywords such that they don't collide with names?
21:19:01 <hppavilion[1]> So "fnwalrus" -> NAME "fnwalrus", "fn walrus" -> KW "fn", NAME "walrus"
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22:27:19 <fizzie> b_jonas: http://doc.rust-lang.org/std/macro.include_bytes!.html
22:27:51 <fizzie> (There's also std:include_str! which includes the contents of a UTF-8 file as a string.
22:29:14 <oerjan> stupid tooth filling fell out :(
22:29:47 <fizzie> (Other than that, I think I've only seen the same feature in assemblers, where it's positively commonplace.)
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23:19:32 <quintopia> b_jonas: log_k(log_k((k^k^a)^(k^b)))=a+b
23:27:30 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ perl -e "$@"
23:27:43 <oerjan> funny thing, that command is entirely redundant
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23:39:43 <hppavilion[1]> A sort of forum for math (not just a math forum; a bit more than that)
23:39:58 <hppavilion[1]> Which makes all these math jokes inside its basic structure
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23:41:20 <hppavilion[1]> And, in the process, drills into your skull /exactly/ how math works
23:42:01 <hppavilion[1]> For example, there are communities (Google+ calls them circles, other places call them groups, etc.)
23:42:30 <hppavilion[1]> As in, any given community, not that you are not a member of any communities at all
23:42:54 <hppavilion[1]> If you are not a member of community x, then you are a member of community Cx
23:45:52 <oerjan> after all this play, i still manage to get new little epiphanies about how tatham's loopy puzzle works
23:47:04 <oerjan> i just realized a deduction i use for triangles with a 2 in them also works in reverse
23:48:22 <oerjan> (if a vertex of the triangle has exactly one non-triangle edge, then that edge is in the loop iff the opposing edge of the triangle is - i just had the => part)
23:48:54 <oerjan> admittedly the => part works if there's more than one edge
23:54:50 <quintopia> can you answer my question oerjan?
23:55:31 <oerjan> i seem to have been distracted by loopy from my logreading, so you'll have to repeat the question.
23:59:37 <oerjan> or you could just wait, i guess. still loopying...