00:00:17 `tomfoolery brainfuck 00:00:18 brainfuck is an esoteric programming language created to make the smallest possible compiler for a Turing-complete language. To do this, it was designed to be extremely minimalistic- which it accomplishes, with a total of eight (8) zero-argument procedural instructions. It is what introduces many people to esolangs, spawning a vast number of deriva 00:00:27 FALE 00:00:48 *MWAHAHAHAHA* 00:08:50 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:08:58 -!- LexiciScriptor has quit (Quit: LexiciScriptor). 00:10:43 -!- heroux has joined. 00:12:34 you just need to golf the description a bit 00:12:43 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:22:57 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:30:02 oerjan: NUUUUUUUUUUU 00:30:08 ais523: Yeah, probably 00:30:56 `mislearn brainfuck is an esoteric programming language created to make the smallest possible compiler for a Turing-complete language. It is what introduces many people to esolangs, spawning a vast number of derivatives that we pretty much all despise. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck 00:30:59 Was lied to about 'brainfuck': brainfuck is an esoteric programming language created to make the smallest possible compiler for a Turing-complete language. It is what introduces many people to esolangs, spawning a vast number of derivatives that we pretty much all despise. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck 00:31:06 `tomfoolery brainfuck 00:31:07 brainfuck is an esoteric programming language created to make the smallest possible compiler for a Turing-complete language. It is what introduces many people to esolangs, spawning a vast number of derivatives that we pretty much all despise. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck 00:31:17 ais523: There, cut out a sentence 00:38:09 so the next question is, how many #esoteric denizens don't know what brainfuck is? 00:39:15 Apparently hppavilion[1] didn't until recently. 00:39:37 shachaf: No, that was hth 00:39:45 ais523: It's more for newbies 00:39:51 -!- slackerSnail has joined. 00:39:52 ais523: Also, for consistency 00:39:54 `? brainfuck 00:39:55 brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. 00:40:07 I was thinking that it might be useful for new people 00:40:08 -!- Treio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:40:17 even then, many people come here from the wiki 00:40:30 and you can't really read the wiki for long without stumbling across a BF derivative 00:40:41 ais523: Yeah, I figured as much 00:40:42 can confirm 00:40:43 But still 00:40:48 slackerSnail: Hi! 00:40:51 just got here from the wiki, it's a lot of bf 00:40:58 `relcome 00:41:01 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:41:03 `relcome slackerSnail 00:41:05 ​slackerSnail: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:41:10 There we go :) 00:41:16 Yeah so I just wrote a 3var-to-SmileBASIC compiler 00:41:24 yeah a compiler 00:41:30 Cool! 00:41:41 slackerSnail: I've been working towards making a compiler for a while now. 00:42:13 so if any of you have SmileBASIC (which is unlikely let's be honest) https://smilebasicsource.com/page?pid=299 00:42:27 I didn't just come here to advertise lol 00:42:29 ooh, I was confusing 3var with something else 00:42:38 how compatible is SmileBASIC with other basics? 00:42:57 I like to describe it to people as a "modern spin on BASIC" 00:43:01 it's not entirely compatible 00:43:02 also, are you using unbounded integers or just normal integers? languages like 3var rely on the integers being unbounded to run anything but trivial prgorams 00:43:06 rather game-centric 00:43:17 uh.. sint32, what SB supports 00:43:37 it used to be doubles but it seemed like everyone else used integer division 00:43:37 that's a normal bounded integer 00:43:42 slackerSnail: Ah, not very useful then 00:43:44 But still cool 00:43:53 (Godel numbering is generally a good thing) 00:44:04 I can't even figure out fibonacci sequence on it :P 00:44:05 (Generally.) 00:44:11 doubles are also bounded; the bounds are much larger than with an integer, /but/ if you go too far out of the integer range, they start becoming inaccurate 00:44:18 yeah, I figured 00:44:21 and using approximations 00:44:36 this is actually what "floating-point" means (that the accuracy changes along with the number) 00:44:36 I could construct some kind of unbounded integer implementation in SB with strings and VAL 00:44:40 ais523: I'm trying to figure out a joke for when Godel Numbering is bad xD 00:44:41 yeah 00:44:53 I guess you shouldn't use Godel Numbering to add? Maybe? 00:45:18 SmileBASIC is a 3DS app if you don't know so yeah 00:45:19 slackerSnail: It's preferable to do something with the carry flag if it's available to you 00:45:25 slackerSnail: I noticed xD 00:45:28 not a lot of people know about it 00:45:41 It came out October 15th last year 00:45:50 small Japanese production 00:46:03 of course Japan got it nearly a year before :) 00:46:10 slackerSnail: I'm attempting to make a game console (emulated) :) 00:46:24 ooh, sounds neat 00:46:50 the SB chat (which I'm usually in) is so dead rn 00:47:00 thought I'd pop in here because boredom 00:47:41 but enough about me 00:48:16 slackerSnail: A RISCy move coming here. 00:48:31 pun 00:48:36 hppavilion[1]: that pun became stale a while back 00:48:45 ais523: Yes, yes it did. 00:48:58 ais523: Feel free to change the topic if you have any better ideas 00:49:21 ais523: (also, slackerSnail hasn't seen it yet, so it isn't stale for them) 00:49:26 we could always go back to the "the international hub…" topic 00:49:36 it was the standard in this channel for years 00:49:43 ais523: True, true 00:49:50 `` grep -R 'international hub' . 00:50:16 ais523: I think you killed HackEgo. 00:50:22 `mourn HackEgo 00:50:27 No output. 00:50:28 Alas, poor HackEgo, I knew him well! 00:50:30 huh, -r and -R are technically different 00:50:39 Ah, right, that command actually works 00:50:42 I forgot about that xD 00:50:53 but yes, in retrospect my command seemed likely to hit timeout 00:50:55 Yeah, IIRC one only does colour escapes and the other all escapes or something? 00:51:04 I always go with -R, which I think is the one that interprets more sequences 00:51:08 oh wait 00:51:17 ... >.> I was thinkig of less -r -R 00:51:32 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:51:34 slackerSnail: So how do you like esolangs so far? 00:51:50 ah, looked it up for grep. That's interesting 00:52:03 Do you like this? 00:52:48 slackerSnail: That's just zzo38, one of our resident bots 00:52:54 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 00:53:13 I wrote like a Befunge interpreter for Petit Computer (SB's predecessor) like a year ago 00:53:19 zzo38 isn't a bot 00:53:20 Oooh 00:53:23 ais523: Shush 00:53:26 at least I don't think so 00:53:36 never finished it; PTC was very much un-modern BASIC so the code was virtually un-maintainable 00:53:39 slackerSnail: I've always liked befunge :) 00:53:40 hppavilion[1] also isn't a bot, but is somewhat overenthusiastic 00:53:47 I am 00:53:53 It's to hide my constant agony 00:53:54 fungot: show off 00:53:55 ais523: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i do wish to make one final comment to make on amendments nos 3, 12, 14, 23, 25, 27 and 31, which we have had the subsequent incidents involving the expulsion, or attempted expulsion, of illegal immigrants based on the gas directive. it seems to me to go away. for a very long history, deals with the specific participation of young farmers. 00:54:05 fungot is written in Funge-98 00:54:05 ais523: i shall make two points: patent protection and homeopathic medicinal products. before i go on to make the whole system. thirdly, starch potato producers have had to debate this serious issue. 00:54:11 I tried to introduce the Funge-98 features but the code was so much spaghetti 00:54:28 you pretty much have to restart from scratch to write a Funge-98 interpreter starting with a Funge-93 interpreter 00:54:34 the language requires the internals to be much more general 00:54:41 `? mycology 00:54:43 mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 00:55:11 ais523: We should probably move that to `tomfoolery 00:55:28 `misle/rn mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 00:55:31 Was lied to about «mycology is a befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https:» 00:55:32 Whoops 00:55:36 you forgot the slash :-P 00:55:42 `revert 00:55:43 `mislearn mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 00:55:50 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 00:55:53 Was lied to about 'mycology': mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 00:57:27 slackerSnail: Does SmileBASIC use goto's or logical control flow? Or both, perhaps? 00:57:33 hmm, I should feel proud about that canary.orig error message 00:57:56 given that it's the only time anyone's actually pierced HackEgo's sandbox 00:57:56 even if it was unintentoinal 00:58:03 hppavilion[1]: it has labels but also structures like WHILE/FOR/DEF 00:58:20 labels are really only useful for DATA 00:58:29 slackerSnail: Ah. I'd recommend you avoid goto as much as possible, if you didn't know to already. 00:58:40 yeah I'm a bit of a hobby coder :) 00:58:45 Use comefrom instead xD 00:58:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:59:03 hppavilion[1]: come from is normally about as readable as goto 00:59:05 at least, unconditional come from 00:59:10 it's usual to write a comment at the jump source 00:59:13 Having messed a bit with Petit Computer.. yes, not a very pretty dialect of BASIC 00:59:17 PTC only had IF/ELSE/GOTO/GOSUB/FOR 00:59:45 but yes, in retrospect my command seemed likely to hit timeout <-- especially since the entire hg repository is mounted in ./.hg or thereabouts 00:59:48 SmileBASIC has IF/ELSEIF/ELSE/WHILE/FOR/GOTO/GOSUB/DEF/REPEAT and I'm sure I'm missing something 01:00:02 or hm 01:00:03 DEF basically creates commands/functions 01:00:05 `unidecode . 01:00:06 ​[U+002E FULL STOP] 01:00:10 thought so 01:00:15 why does . have to come so early in asciibetical order 01:00:20 I now want to make a new BASIC and distribute it to the masses 01:00:34 SmileBASIC is pretty good for what it is, I would recommend it to hobby people 01:00:42 aren't there enough basics already? 01:00:46 $9.99 is US land 01:00:51 make a new logo and distribute it to the masses 01:01:05 ais523: To see if I can get the world of computer users programming again 01:01:09 ais523: OK, probably that instead 01:01:13 Or Baso. 01:01:14 logo's a) actually pretty powerful, b) normally thought of as being used by schoolchildren (thus adding a powerful library to it will surprise people) 01:01:30 i wonder if I still have my ptc funge source code around somewhere 01:01:33 like, write a website in logo, that would be pretty eso 01:02:35 hehe yeah, here it is 01:03:09 woah, 2014? this is older than I remember 01:04:09 -!- heroux has joined. 01:05:20 ais523: Yeah, Logo would be better 01:05:49 `` ls tmflry/myc* 01:05:51 tmflry/mycology 01:05:57 I have programmed in GWBASIC and QBASIC but I have not used SmileBASIC (I have heard of it though) 01:06:14 it's pretty good 01:06:27 and since program sharing is over a server there's a lot of stuff to play with 01:06:50 ais523: What would be a good syntax for an educational language? 01:07:27 hppavilion[1]: I'm not sure, most places seem to use Java or Python 01:07:38 at the university where I used to teach (and still works), first years were taught on Java and OCaml simultaneously 01:07:46 with other languages coming in in later years 01:07:50 `quote Prolog 01:07:51 ais523: Yeah, maybe... 01:07:51 884) What I learned on the Prolog course is that it's a good language if you need a thing that can say "No" a lot. \ 946) Phantom_Hoover: my department teaches prolog, to second years I think some people choose it because it isn't ocaml, and then are disappointed to find it has lists \ 1203) oerjan: the origina 01:08:42 I'm looking for something that... is good for new learners, and perhaps that hasn't been done frequently 01:08:46 Prolog definitely should count as eso by most definitions, the problem is that a) it was intended seriously when created, and b) there are very specific problem domains it's actually good at 01:08:49 `` ls -l -d .hg 01:08:50 drwxr-xr-x 4 5000 5000 4096 Feb 13 00:55 .hg 01:09:18 A LISP doesn't seem ideal, and BASICs have been done before 01:09:26 oerjan: if you're trying to get the size of the directory recursively, you can only do that by iterating over it with a command like du 01:09:27 A Haskell might actually be good 01:09:45 hppavilion[1]: do you understand monads? 01:10:03 ais523: No, and neither does anybody else 01:10:16 ais523: Not a PURE haskell, just something with functional capabilities 01:10:36 Like, with the partial application and stuff. That'd be good for an educational language, IMLIO 01:10:55 We get to learn the basics of Prolog and some other languages in the second year here 01:10:57 ("In My Likely-Incorrect Opinion") 01:10:58 ais523: `revert does not always work for file creations. although it seemed to work in that case. 01:11:16 Prolog was pretty fun, but it certainly felt a bit unusual to work with 01:11:21 Shells probably aren't a good idea for an educational language either... 01:11:31 hppavilion[1]: why not use OCaml? it's like Haskell but with a more intuitive evaluation order 01:11:53 ais523: Use an OCaml-like syntax you mean? 01:11:53 (that said, in my current project at work I'm using Ocaml but someone seems to have defined a >>= operator; I'm scared to see what it does) 01:12:04 hppavilion[1]: an ocaml-like semantics 01:12:08 Perhaps 01:12:09 this discussion really does seem esoteric to me (bad joke) 01:12:20 slackerSnail: it's more ontopic than we normally are, which is a good thing 01:12:24 I like it when the channel's ontopic 01:12:25 ais523: i was actually just checking if .hg was a symbolic link or not 01:12:36 (and so would have been excluded by -r) 01:12:50 ais523: I'm looking for something easy for a newbie to learn xD 01:12:50 `` mv .hg .hg_old 01:12:51 mv: cannot move `.hg' to `.hg_old': Device or resource busy 01:12:58 Functional programming is not very good for newbies, LTIC 01:13:05 OK, I was wondering what happened if I tried to rename it, given that it's updated magically 01:13:06 It's just confusing 01:13:13 based on the exact error I got, I'm guessing it's a mount point 01:13:15 i tried learning Haskell 01:13:15 `` mount 01:13:16 none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type host 01:13:20 i didn't learn haskell 01:13:25 `` mount | grep -v none 01:13:26 tmpfs on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime) \ proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime) \ sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime) 01:13:54 ooh, "hostfs" 01:14:00 ais523: No, and neither does anybody else <-- bah, i understand monads (in haskell, for CT ask shachaf) 01:14:01 I bet it's mirroring something from the host 01:14:44 I did think up an approach to monad tutorials that I don't think I've seen done well before 01:14:44 ais523: What parts of programming are underrepresented in educational languages? 01:14:45 copumpkin is the CT expert here 01:14:50 he even moved there 01:14:58 that said, I haven't actually written a monad tutorial, because I don't want to become a meme 01:15:21 ais523: How- wha- a meme? 01:15:30 Like, a classical meme? 01:15:33 Or a modern meme? 01:15:56 hppavilion[1]: monad tutorials are something of a meme 01:16:04 Ah 01:17:18 `df .hg 01:17:18 df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 40573996 9361756 29155208 25% /hackenv/.hg 01:17:24 there are a lot of terrible ones, and even most of the ones that help at least one person are totally confusing to most other people 01:17:34 Hm... 01:17:37 oerjan: bah why did I not come to the logical conclusion there 01:17:41 I want something I could teach my peers with 01:17:44 all the pieces were right in front of me 01:17:59 hppavilion[1]: I've seen someone use Ook! as a teaching language 01:18:07 ais523: No. 01:18:08 Just no. 01:18:43 (note: Ook! is one of the few BF derivatives that we don't hate, on the basis that it was the first and thus the idea of being a BF derivative hadn't become discredited yet) 01:18:55 Oh 01:19:11 What would be a good set of basic semantic and syntactic features for teaching clueless highschoolers how to code? 01:19:18 I'd say non-console IO 01:19:49 most commonly I see people do either: very simple imperative languages (think BASIC); Logo derivatives; or flowchart-based languages with a GUI editor 01:20:07 Probably not the last one 01:20:13 in my compsci class we learn Java so there's that 01:20:21 slackerSnail: Not Java. 01:20:32 not a common teaching language 01:20:52 Java is totally a common teaching languages, although normally at the undergraduate level 01:21:10 I believe the reason is that plausibly being able to claim that you know Java almost guarantees you'll be able to get a job 01:21:19 thus it does wonders for the department's graduate employment statistics 01:21:22 -!- RedPhoenix_ has joined. 01:21:32 Hi 01:22:03 `welcome RedPhoenix_ 01:22:05 RedPhoenix_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:22:06 `` df .hg 2>/dev/null 01:22:07 Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 40573996 9362416 29154548 25% /hackenv/.hg 01:22:31 9362416 kilobytes? that's a lot of space 01:22:40 RedPhoenix_: Oh, you came over here xD 01:22:45 Welcome then 01:22:46 kind-of unbelievably large, actually 01:22:59 Why I'm reading "erotic" instead of esoteric? o.O 01:23:17 I don't think we have any erotic esolangs yet? 01:23:32 well there's brainfuck 01:23:50 that's not erotic, it just has "fuck" in the name 01:23:54 also "brain" 01:24:01 hppavilion[1]: Yes, I came over here, hurra! 01:24:15 ais523, you're not trying hard enough 01:25:13 `relcome RedPhoenix_ 01:25:14 ​RedPhoenix_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:25:25 ugh do I have to delete relcome again :-( 01:25:34 hppavilion[1]: Hi, again .. 01:25:56 Bot? 01:26:23 HackEgo's a bot, hppavilion[1] isn't (just a bit overenthusiastic) 01:27:00 ais523: Huh? 01:27:12 hppavilion[1]: I'm replying to RedPhoenix_ 01:27:16 they were already welcomed once.. 01:27:20 also getting annoyed at you re-welcoming someone just so that you could rainbow it 01:27:23 ais523: No, about deleting `relcome 01:27:25 RedPhoenix_, most people think it means the other kind of esoteric, 'erotic' is a new one 01:27:48 hppavilion[1]: because of people overwelcoming in an annoying way and with stupid welcome variants 01:27:49 FireFly: Oh, I didn't notice because it wasn't colorful 01:28:02 I thought it was a command output or something 01:28:06 I'm a bit clueless. 01:28:20 (Well, it IS a command output, but...) 01:28:22 I mean.. it was command output :P 01:28:33 ais523: That's the stats for the whole root filesystem of the thing. 01:28:44 ais523: I'm guessing a side effect on how umlbox mounts those things. 01:28:48 fizzie: ah right 01:28:49 I need sleep, 4 times or so I've read "#erotic" instead of "#esorotik" 01:28:55 damn! 01:28:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:29:01 * "'esoteric" 01:29:02 something I discovered recently: if you need sleep, then get it 01:29:04 ! 01:29:08 not sleeping just makes you tireder 01:29:22 So should I take a different approach to teaching programming from scratch (well, not different at all) and use static typing? 01:29:24 -!- oerjan has set topic: The esorotic channel | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪. 01:29:30 * "#esoteric" 01:29:37 -!- heroux has joined. 01:29:41 TOO LATE 01:30:25 Hmm 01:30:28 FireFly: Oh, I didn't notice because it wasn't colorful <-- *MWAHAHAHA* i knew it 01:30:48 oerjan: I'm inverse color blind, don't laugh at me :,( 01:31:14 `? hppavilion[1] 01:31:17 ais523: That said, the whole persistent directory does manage to take 527M of space; 220M excluding the .hg part. 01:31:18 hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. 01:31:34 hppavilion[1]: i may have been slightly laughing at ais523 too, there 01:31:35 hppavilion[1]: I think that is usually called synesthesia 01:31:58 oerjan: what have I done that's worthy of being laughed at? 01:32:02 http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2003-01-18.txt :O 01:32:08 FireFly: No, the other inverse 01:32:37 ais523: you want people to use `welcome instead of the others, but it's so boring people miss that it's been used :P 01:32:54 so you get _more_ over-welcoming that way. 01:32:55 Why must be the ` there? 01:33:01 oerjan: well this channel shouldn't be /about/ welcomes 01:33:07 RedPhoenix_: it's HackEgo's command prefix 01:33:08 RedPhoenix_: first character lets bots know which bot we're talking to 01:33:25 There are multiple bots here? 01:33:31 ^echo precisely! 01:33:31 precisely! precisely! 01:33:32 Sure 01:33:33 !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]. 01:33:33 No output. 01:33:41 -!- RedPhoenix_ has changed nick to Bot_Hunter_2000. 01:33:42 !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 01:33:42 ​@ 01:33:44 ^bots 01:33:44 ^bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 01:33:45 @ 01:33:46 hm 01:33:47 > "but of course!" 01:33:49 "but of course!" 01:33:50 ^prefixes 01:33:50 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 01:33:51 `! bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 01:33:52 ​@ 01:33:58 Time to hunt! 01:34:03 ( "lots of them!" 01:34:05 (to pick a command that quite a few bots know) 01:34:05 "lots of them!" : String 01:34:18 String? 01:34:20 [ 'even this' 01:34:21 Bot fail? 01:34:21 FireFly: even this 01:34:29 Bot_Hunter_2000: no, it just prints the type of the result 01:34:29 Bot_Hunter_2000: "lots of them!" is a String 01:34:31 ( "test" 01:34:31 "test" : String 01:34:37 ( 12 01:34:38 ( "test" : hi 01:34:38 12 : Integer 01:34:38 (input):1:8: error: expected: "#", 01:34:38 "$", "&", "&&", "&&&", "*!>", 01:34:38 "*", "***", "*>", "*>|", "+", 01:34:38 "++", "+++", "-", "->", ".", 01:34:39 "/", "/=", ":+", ":-", "::",↵… 01:34:42 lol 01:34:46 [ "one more" 01:34:46 oerjan: |syntax error 01:34:47 oerjan: | "one more" 01:34:49 darn 01:34:50 ( "test" : 1 01:34:50 (input):1:8: error: expected: "#", 01:34:50 "$", "&", "&&", "&&&", "*!>", 01:34:50 "*", "***", "*>", "*>|", "+", 01:34:50 "++", "+++", "-", "->", ".", 01:34:50 "/", "/=", ":+", ":-", "::",↵… 01:34:57 ( "test" : j-bot 01:34:57 I showcased j-bot already :< 01:34:57 (input):1:8: error: expected: "#", 01:34:57 "$", "&", "&&", "&&&", "*!>", 01:34:57 "*", "***", "*>", "*>|", "+", 01:34:57 except i don't know J 01:34:58 "++", "+++", "-", "->", ".", 01:35:00 "/", "/=", ":+", ":-", "::",↵… 01:35:08 strings are single-quote only 01:35:10 oerjan: it's an APL derivative 01:35:12 this doesn't really help though 01:35:15 double quotes have another meaning 01:35:20 -!- Bot_Hunter_2000 has changed nick to RedPhoenix_. 01:35:28 ( "test" : "hi" 01:35:30 (input):1:8: error: expected: "#", 01:35:31 "$", "&", "&&", "&&&", "*!>", 01:35:31 "*", "***", "*>", "*>|", "+", 01:35:31 "++", "+++", "-", "->", ".", 01:35:31 "/", "/=", ":+", ":-", "::",↵… 01:35:50 -!- thutubot has joined. 01:35:52 I hate bots :/ 01:35:54 +ul (test)S 01:35:54 test 01:35:55 idris-bot might be more useful if one already knows a bit of Idris 01:35:56 fizzie: i thought the .hg part was readonly from the sandbox, so not really part of the persistent directory 01:36:24 RedPhoenix_: Bots are our friends! 01:36:25 do EgoBot/HackEgo know underload? 01:36:28 !ul (test)S 01:36:49 come to think of it, I think we taught EgoBot Underload via giving it an Underload impl written in brainfuck 01:36:52 `! ul (test)S 01:36:53 ​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/ul: not found 01:37:03 hppavilion[1]: not mine! 01:37:03 ^ul (test)S 01:37:03 test 01:37:07 +ul (test)S 01:37:07 test 01:37:14 +haskell 2+2 01:37:16 4 01:37:26 ais523: Idea! An esolang, interpreted on a server, that uses neural networks to decide what to do 01:37:32 `prefixes 01:37:33 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 01:37:34 Your Syntax etc looks like a new programming language: Bot++ 01:37:55 `? thutubot 01:37:56 thutubot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:38:04 +help 01:38:05 hmm 01:38:07 RedPhoenix_: On it. 01:38:11 maybe it doesn't have a help command 01:38:12 +ul (test)S 01:38:12 test 01:38:13 +help 01:38:15 ?help 01:38:16 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 01:38:16 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 01:38:17 ++ul (test)S 01:38:18 :O 01:38:29 ?help list 01:38:29 list [module|command]. Show commands for [module] or the module providing [command]. 01:38:29 list [module|command]. Show commands for [module] or the module providing [command]. 01:38:33 +list 01:38:39 A query would be better to prevent spam 01:38:39 ah right, /this/ is why we don't run thutubot all the time 01:38:58 it repeats everything lambdabot says 01:39:09 +quit 01:39:21 ?help 01:39:21 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 01:39:21 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 01:39:27 ?prefix 01:39:27 Unknown command, try @list 01:39:27 Unknown command, try @list 01:39:30 @list 01:39:30 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 01:39:30 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 01:39:32 hmm, I guess it thinks I'm not identified because Freenode changed its identification syntax 01:39:34 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:39:34 dat prefixes ... 01:39:43 > 1 01:39:45 1 01:39:49 0 01:40:05 @help 01:40:05 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 01:40:18 * int-e shrugs 01:40:26 @list 01:40:26 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 01:40:28 ais523: i know _that_, i just don't really know its operators 01:40:30 @say heyho! 01:40:30 Maybe you meant: src slap faq 01:40:35 ?version 01:40:35 lambdabot 5.0.3 01:40:35 git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot 01:40:38 @faw 01:40:38 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 01:40:44 @slap int-e 01:40:44 stop telling me what to do 01:40:47 lol 01:40:49 oerjan: it's an APL derivative, thus you can't know them 01:40:53 @slap int-e 01:40:54 * lambdabot smacks int-e about with a large trout 01:40:58 without memorizing them individually 01:41:04 @src 01:41:04 src . Display the implementation of a standard function 01:41:08 @src 1 01:41:08 Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing. 01:41:30 @faw 01:41:30 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 01:41:34 @faq 01:41:34 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 01:41:38 RedPhoenix_: i suspect the syntax error in ( "test" : ... is on the : so it doesn't matter what you put after it. 01:41:47 ( hi 01:41:47 No such variable hi 01:41:50 ( "hi" 01:41:50 "hi" : String 01:42:00 -!- slackerSnail has quit. 01:42:04 ( "line1","line2" 01:42:05 (input):1:8: error: expected: "#", 01:42:05 "$", "&", "&&", "&&&", "*!>", 01:42:05 "*", "***", "*>", "*>|", "+", 01:42:05 "++", "+++", "-", "->", ".", 01:42:05 "/", "/=", ":+", ":-", "::",↵… 01:42:27 How many bots are here? 01:42:42 My guess is N+1 01:42:50 !underload (test)S 01:42:51 test 01:42:56 this channel was about 10% bots once 01:42:57 aha 01:42:58 `! underload (test)S 01:42:59 test 01:43:07 looks like we do have an underload interprer 01:43:11 * RedPhoenix_ suicides herself 01:43:18 !underload (::^)::^ 01:43:20 Error: Out of memory 01:43:22 come to think of it, I think we taught EgoBot Underload via giving it an Underload impl written in brainfuck <-- no that was fungot and it was later replaced by a funge-98 one. 01:43:23 oerjan: the council is of the greatest importance. we have seen entire local action programmes on equal opportunities policy for africa, asia and south america, for example, with the promise accompanying monetary unification that a new draft directive greater pressure would be brought into line with those of the who in some cases as sick people, but every time there was a real turning point in space activities, then of course t 01:43:31 ^ul (::^)::^ 01:43:31 ...too much stack! 01:43:48 RedPhoenix_: it's only natural that when you have a channel about programming langauges 01:43:52 you add some way to run the languages in-channel 01:43:56 that's what the bots did originally 01:43:58 fungot: wow, that's deep 01:43:59 int-e: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, the european commission, were that fact properly to emerge, the three reports before parliament today. i am particularly happy to have got his way and has signed a voluntary commitment concerning the sustainable development of the european council will give impetus to the process moving forward, and i am thinking, for example. 01:44:03 only it sort-of got took over by things like quotes and welcome 01:44:28 ais523: I'm not a really programming freak, I'm doing a little bit funny, but nothing more :( 01:44:35 +for 01:45:11 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:45:58 oh, we have a new topic 01:46:10 oerjan: but shouldn't that c be a k? 01:46:34 "oh yeah baby... show me your brainfuck derivatives..." 01:46:51 it repeats everything lambdabot says <-- you could make it only do that for private messages? 01:46:58 oerjan: it was meant to 01:47:05 fixing it at this point means reading years-old thutu 01:47:40 -!- RedPhoenix_ has changed nick to RedPhoenix_Away. 01:49:39 dat prefixes ... <-- we cannot really put the prefixes command in lambdabot because it's a multi-channel bot. 01:50:13 ? 01:50:36 Okay 01:52:46 How many bots are here? <-- i sometimes like to check if the channel is up to 10% bots. it varies. 01:53:32 oerjan: ok ok, understood, thanks, I'm now away 01:53:50 -!- heroux has joined. 01:54:21 testing that theory about sleep, I guess... 01:54:25 oerjan: but shouldn't that c be a k? <-- i just copied what was said hth 01:55:34 * oerjan finally reaches the bottom of the channel 01:55:49 now to ruin it by making some food -> 01:56:14 oerjan: you really didn't; you made up a new word. 02:01:00 -!- RedPhoenix_Away has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:01:25 did i? 02:01:56 -!- oerjan has set topic: The esorotik channel | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪. 02:02:03 SHOCKING 02:02:14 very. 02:09:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:22:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMAGINARY CHICKEN). 02:41:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:45:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:50:44 <\oren\> buenos tardis! 03:15:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:18:17 -!- heroux has joined. 03:18:29 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:22:48 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 03:25:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:25:56 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:28:45 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:55:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:57:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:59:22 -!- heroux has joined. 04:35:26 is there a maximum size for a page on the esolang wiki? 04:38:41 -!- Opodeldoc has joined. 04:39:20 probably. 04:40:18 4 kilobytes hth 04:40:49 -!- variable has joined. 04:48:52 -!- PinealGl1ndOptic has joined. 04:55:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:59:43 oerjan: The way my irc client displayed the above, I thought you said that you were probably the maximum size of an esolang wiki page... 05:00:01 -!- perrier_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:01:20 -!- perrier_ has joined. 05:06:48 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:10:10 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 05:18:37 -!- PinealGl1ndOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:18:40 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:21:38 zgrep: your client is weird hth 05:23:56 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:30:22 oerjan: Well, it looked like a CTCP ACTION, as if you were saying /me probably :P 05:38:48 * oerjan unlikely 06:09:02 oh, I missed a lot of stuff here 06:11:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:13:49 Now I did post two Node.js packages (sorry no document yet) 06:14:25 If you do JavaScript programming then maybe you might be able to use it 06:24:26 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:28:46 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:33:53 But I want to add graph isomorphism function into my "parse-rdf" package 06:35:25 I also made up the functions of "monadic generators" in JavaScript; do you like this? 07:04:56 What does the biconditional CHI to? 07:07:05 I don't know what that is 07:07:58 zzo38: Which part? 07:08:06 CHI = Curry-Howard Correspondence 07:08:26 Correspondence = Isomorphism 07:10:02 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:11:37 -!- heroux has joined. 07:12:55 OK I can understand that part now 07:13:11 I still do not quite understand your question though 07:14:39 zzo38: I'm trying to figure out if there's a simple meaning for p <-> q under the curry-howard isomorphism 07:15:23 Sort of like how | is Either and & forms tuples 07:16:05 Obviously, one can treat p <-> q as (p -> q) & (q -> p), but that's the type that I'm starting with 07:16:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:16:30 o hais523 der 07:16:41 OK I can understand you now 07:16:48 I can't! 07:17:29 It would be the isomorphism between the types I expect? 07:17:55 While the factorial would be the isomorphism between itself, I expect? 07:18:45 hppavilion[1]: i don't think there is a simpler meaning. 07:18:51 oerjan: Oh :/ 07:19:21 oerjan: I'm trying to figure out what Biconditional Introduction corresponds to 07:19:36 what's biconditional introduction 07:20:17 oerjan: ((P -> Q) & (Q -> P)) -> Q <-> P hth 07:20:28 right 07:21:07 oerjan: Though I'm beginning to think it programs to a style (like double negation elimination corresponds to CPS) more than a type system feature 07:21:47 well <-> is what you need for equational reasoning about propositions, i guess 07:22:21 but i still don't think there's a CH equivalence different from that of (P -> Q) & (Q -> P) 07:23:28 oerjan: Yes, that's what I said (I think), it's probably more a style like CPS than a thing builtin to the langauge 07:25:35 -!- Opodeldoc has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:51:44 -!- Opodeldoc has joined. 08:01:29 The wiki article about #esoteric stack mentions my Z-machine implementation, but which one do you mean? Do you mean ZORKMID, or JSZM, or Famizork? 08:02:41 -!- Opodeldoc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:07:20 -!- Opodeldoc has joined. 08:11:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:18:19 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805]). 08:18:41 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 08:33:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:48:02 -!- glowcoil has changed nick to incomprehensibly. 08:58:57 -!- mroman has joined. 08:59:06 gravitational waves somehow make sense 08:59:22 but probably not the ones I'm thinking of 08:59:40 an object pulls in another object 09:00:03 if that object wiggles back and forth 09:00:21 then the grav force applied to the other object would wiggle too :D 09:00:33 [wiki] [[SELECT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46396&oldid=40842 * Quintopia * (+544) /* Examples */ 09:01:11 but that's probably not the grav waves scientists are talking about. 09:02:20 it's more like, if you make a really really large change to a gravitational field suddenly, the force it applies to other objects doesn't change immediately and when it does it oscillates into position 09:03:20 so gravitity travels at light speed? 09:03:37 yes 09:07:17 [wiki] [[SELECT./99 bottles]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46397 * Quintopia * (+322515) Created 09:07:57 ais523: You just explained that better than anything I've read. 09:09:53 [wiki] [[SELECT./99 bottles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46398&oldid=46397 * Quintopia * (-11937) remove excess space 09:11:57 [wiki] [[SELECT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46399&oldid=46396 * Quintopia * (+136) /* Sample programs */ 09:14:00 quintopia: does that program even contain a loop? I saw the "322515", thought "that's big for a language", realised it was a 99bob program, and wondered just how verbose the program was 09:14:09 then I looked at the page itself and saw it was /compressed/ 09:15:29 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:15:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:18:28 [wiki] [[SELECT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46400&oldid=46399 * Quintopia * (+2) /* Integer division and integer modulus */ 09:21:57 so 09:22:02 if you blow up a planet 09:22:12 because it's sucking you in 09:22:17 and that planet is one light year away 09:22:40 it's going to be a year before your planet stops getting sucktion from that planet you just blew up 09:23:02 -!- Opodeldoc has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:23:44 yep 09:24:04 science fiction makes a lightyear seem so small 09:24:08 but it's really teally big 09:24:11 *really really 09:24:20 -!- Opodeldoc has joined. 09:24:23 things out there are so far away, that you can't do anything to affect them in less than a year 09:25:44 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:30:06 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:39:48 has anyone `olisted 1023 yet? 10:40:03 `olist 1023 10:40:29 olist 1023: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 10:42:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:10:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:12:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:20:25 -!- gde33 has joined. 11:35:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:37:14 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:44:02 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:44:18 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:44:23 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:49:52 -!- bender|_ has joined. 11:50:24 -!- bender|_ has quit (Changing host). 11:50:24 -!- bender|_ has joined. 11:50:36 -!- bender|_ has changed nick to bender. 11:51:09 -!- gremlins has joined. 11:53:09 -!- zadock has joined. 12:01:03 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:12:03 -!- Opodeldoc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:12:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:19:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:23:36 -!- mroman has joined. 12:29:39 -!- gremlins2 has joined. 12:29:56 -!- gremlins has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:38:32 -!- gremlins2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:39:11 -!- gremlins has joined. 12:42:39 -!- gremlins2 has joined. 12:43:56 -!- gremlins has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:53:26 -!- LexiciScriptor has joined. 13:19:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:25:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:33:49 -!- heroux has joined. 13:35:43 -!- boily has joined. 13:35:45 @metar CYUL 13:35:45 CYUL 131300Z 25017G22KT 15SM DRSN FEW015 SCT045 SCT240 M23/M28 A3002 RMK SF1SC4CI1 SF TR CI TR SLP172 13:39:56 cold day 13:40:46 @metar lowi 13:40:47 LOWI 131320Z 27008KT 9999 FEW070 BKN120 07/00 Q0991 NOSIG 13:54:45 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:57:47 I'm hungry and haven't groceried in way too long. ain't even got moldy bread to look all shifty at me. 13:58:06 I'll have to brave the cold to go grab a pho. 13:58:19 (then grocery. but first pho. priorities.) 14:04:00 -!- p34k has joined. 14:07:06 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: later chat). 14:08:56 -!- gremlins2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:13:15 -!- gremlins has joined. 14:25:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:57:30 http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-voters-bomb-agrabah-disney-aladdin-donald-trump murrica 15:08:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:10:41 -!- heroux has joined. 15:17:54 -!- bender has quit (Quit: Ping Pong Fuckout). 15:26:20 Well... I'm trying to implement AES for revision purposes 15:26:34 I've accidentally reimplemented mutliplication 15:26:46 Good start 15:26:47 pretty hard stuff! 15:27:09 you better did not used predefined addition for this 15:27:19 No, I did not 15:27:30 good 15:27:33 Shifts, ands, xors, and the occasional increment 15:27:59 sounds like that russian multiplikation thingie 15:29:25 -!- gremlins has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:36:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COWLICK CHICKEN). 15:47:18 Actually, I was wrong, I hadn't implemented multiplication 15:48:12 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:57:28 -!- lynn has joined. 16:01:52 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:02:36 -!- heroux has joined. 16:06:14 -!- lynn has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:06:51 <\oren\> what should I have for breakfast? 16:07:22 Cereal, maybe? 16:18:11 -!- gremlins has joined. 16:19:38 -!- gremlins has changed nick to Reece`. 16:20:33 <\oren\> yeah, that was much better than just having coffee like i usually do 16:20:35 -!- Reece` has quit (Client Quit). 16:21:01 -!- Reece` has joined. 16:21:03 <\oren\> also apparently corn flakes in coffee milk is vary good 16:21:21 I'm not a fan of coffee, personally 16:24:41 <\oren\> Did you know you can now buy pre-mixed coffee milk in Canada? it used to only be in Japan afaik 16:36:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:38:06 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:39:31 -!- heroux has joined. 16:44:24 \oren\, that's very strange 16:50:30 <\oren\> http://www.lactantia.ca/food-product-category/iced-coffee/ 16:58:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:02:26 -!- heroux has joined. 17:08:10 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:15:49 -!- Opodeldoc has joined. 17:19:15 ais523: of course it loops. It's only 7MB with the comments and whitespace removed. I estimate a minified non-looping 99bob in SELECT. would run to ~250MB 17:20:16 oh he maybe doesnt logread much 17:20:58 @tell ais523 of course it loops. It's only 7MB with the comments and whitespace removed. I estimate a minified non-looping 99bob in SELECT. would run to ~250MB 17:20:58 Consider it noted. 17:21:45 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:24:25 izabera: That was a redundant olist and you were around for the first olist. :-( 17:26:12 -!- Reece` has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:26:32 -!- heroux has joined. 17:36:18 there's no such thing as a redundant olist if it doesn't mention you! 17:49:12 -!- LexiciScriptor has quit (Quit: LexiciScriptor). 17:51:04 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:01:37 <\oren\> is there a way to have ghc output C code? 18:02:16 <\oren\> in such a way so that I can call it from C 18:10:46 \oren\, the answer's "no, but it can output a header which you can include in C" 18:10:53 But I'm fuzzy on the details 18:12:03 shachaf: but I don't live in CT anymore :( 18:12:11 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:12:14 -!- Elronnd has set topic: The esoerotic channel | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪. 18:12:19 copumpkin: Oh, you moved *from* there, right. 18:13:27 yeah :( 18:16:34 -!- heroux has joined. 18:24:36 copumpkin: Not happy with VA? 18:25:54 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FlamingObsidian * New user account 18:41:32 shachaf: no I actually like it 18:46:15 -!- LexiciScriptor has joined. 18:52:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:54:26 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:56:42 -!- heroux has joined. 18:58:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:00:31 `unidecode ⴱⴺⵃⵠⵒⵍ 19:00:54 ​[U+2D31 TIFINAGH LETTER YAB] [U+2D3A TIFINAGH LETTER YADDH] [U+2D43 TIFINAGH LETTER YAHH] [U+2D60 TIFINAGH LETTER YAV] [U+2D52 TIFINAGH LETTER YAP] [U+2D4D TIFINAGH LETTER YAL] 19:08:00 [wiki] [[Hieroglyphic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46401 * FlamingObsidian * (+884) Created page with "== Syntax == Hieroglyphic uses hieroglyphics to symbolize its code. Here are the symbols and their meanings. I - Increment current number - M17 B - Decrement current number..." 19:10:39 (note: Ook! is one of the few BF derivatives that we don't hate, on the basis that it was the first and thus the idea of being a BF derivative hadn't become discredited yet)” <= I agree 19:11:14 ook is pretty lame, though 19:11:26 What would be a good set of basic semantic and syntactic features for teaching clueless highschoolers how to code?” <= I have my own guess at this, I can tell if you're interested 19:11:37 if i had to choose a bf derivate, i'd choose bf2d 19:12:22 i would teach them robozzle 19:12:23 but I'm totally not convinced it's right, since I want to teach imperative programming with side effects first, whereas there are pretty good arguments on teaching functional programming without side-effects first 19:13:45 I don't think we have any erotic esolangs yet?” <= partly because what turns people on varies a lot, so a language might easily be erotic to someone but not erotic to someone else 19:14:01 b_jonas: Continue 19:14:35 About the first part, not the erotic esolangs part 19:14:49 hppavilion[1]: what you teach really depends on the skills at hand and the skills that need to be there at the end 19:15:11 myname: Yes. I'm designing this to start with the clueless. 19:15:15 i like the sandwich making approach to give people a first impression on what algorithms are 19:15:34 <\oren\> imperative programming is a lot more intuitive for people who don't have a huge grounding in abstract math 19:15:48 <\oren\> e.g. grade schoolers 19:16:20 -!- evalj has joined. 19:16:37 here is what you do: grab a bag of toast, a knife, some stuff to make sandwiches (depending on your likings, bpb&j, butter and ham, whatever) 19:16:55 and do zexactly_ what they say 19:17:27 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 19:17:27 if they want you to butter the toast, take the butter and put it on the bag of toast 19:19:14 myname: I don't think toast comes in bags hth 19:19:19 has anyone `olisted 1023 yet?” => yes, shachaf did 19:20:01 whatever these are called 19:20:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:20:32 `nick hppavilion[1] 19:20:37 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nick: not found 19:20:43 how to make a sandwich: go to the store, buy mortadella and bread, cut the bread with a knife, put the mortadella inside the bread 19:20:55 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 19:20:55 expected behaviour: wait forever at the store 19:21:48 hppavilion[1]: what you teach really depends on the skills at hand and the skills that need to be there at the end” <= yes, but at a higher level. at the lower level where we decided the goal was to give first year mathematician students an introduction to programming such that it helps especially those who aren't otherwise interested in programming, 19:22:39 and in such a way that I want to help those who won't program in the future, such that they can at least tell better what is possible to teach to a computer and what isn't and how to work together with people who do program. 19:23:03 so at that point, I don't think there's too much other we had to fix, so I could just choose a reasonable set of syntax on what to teach. 19:23:37 So I did choose a very small subset of python to teach them for this purpose on a course. 19:23:48 for maths people i'd go straight to haskell 19:23:56 The course notes are http://wiki.math.bme.hu/view/Informatika1-2010 but partly broken. 19:24:01 myname: they're not maths people YET 19:24:16 and they need to get an introduction to algorithms and what computers can do to become maths people 19:24:20 why not start with c 19:24:38 LexiciScriptor: because we don't want them to get all segfaulted and have to learn memory managed 19:24:39 LexiciScriptor: what for? 19:24:48 our goal isn't that they should program, or that they know python 19:24:58 if i want to teach people how a cpu works, i'd use assembly 19:25:05 but to know the basics of what a computer can do, in abstract, 19:25:12 but not in a low level 19:25:18 if i want to teach them how imperative öanguageork, i'd use something that sucks less than c doess 19:25:22 but on a level where you ignore all the constant factors 19:25:26 anyway: 19:25:50 c is one of the worst starting languages i can imagine 19:25:56 http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-prog-osszefoglalo.html demonstrates most of the features, but I'll enumerate them here 19:26:00 i started with c :P 19:26:26 at what age and with what previous knowledge? 19:27:09 1. integer literals and arithmetic operators on integers and real numbers: add, subtract, multiply, divide, integer divide, reminder, power, six comparison operators 19:27:09 at 18, first year uni with only pascal :O 19:27:20 2. boolean operators: and, or, not 19:27:33 so you already know imperative programming 19:27:43 you didn't start with c then 19:27:44 3. creating and reassigning variables with the = operator 19:27:55 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:28:16 4. print statements, to print values for debugging or output 19:28:18 i was 14 when i learned pascal, and most people in the class were computer illiterate 19:28:30 so? 19:28:34 together with printing string literals and numerical expressions in a line 19:28:56 also, c-like sintax is common in other languages useful for math 19:29:00 5. if and if-else conditionals 19:29:15 6. chains of elsif 19:29:16 LexiciScriptor: sytax doesn't matter 19:29:31 7. while conditionals 19:29:40 8. how to interrupt the interpreter in case of an infinite loop 19:30:09 9. creating an array with an array constructor (bracket), 10. indexing an array 19:30:21 once you know any imperative language, you can learn another one in a week or two to the point of anything you'd probably need in any uni course 19:30:50 11. modifying an array in place with indexed assignment and the .append method, and how arrays are stored by reference 19:32:16 12. for loops to loop on arrays and 13. the range function (12 and 13 are extra, I don't think I actually use them in my sample code, but they're convenient) 19:32:58 14. tuples, which are non-writable arrays, and creating them from an array with the tuple function, to help avoid mistakenly modifying an array 19:33:07 -!- heroux has joined. 19:33:13 they will be a course next semester called "computational metaphysics" 19:33:18 15. tuple constructors (you don't really need them, but they help interpret the debug output when you print) 19:33:30 i am not sure wetger or not to go there 19:34:10 16. defining and calling functions with def and return and parenthesis (this will be important, one of the most important concepts I want to teach later is using a user-defined function as a building block you can re-use for multiple tasks) 19:34:14 myname: what? 19:34:30 what what? 19:34:55 And that's the end of the list, these are all the syntactic concepts I taught for the programming introduction; 19:35:00 what is computational metaphysics? 19:35:19 though note that in this class we also give an introduction to symbolic computer algebra, which needs some more syntax stuff. 19:35:26 hppavilion[1]: does this make sense/ 19:35:48 The important part is of course not the particular syntax elements I teach, but the lessons I want to teach about programming with their help. 19:36:58 hmm, apparently there's one more. I also mentioned strings being first class values and concatenating strings. I dunno why. 19:37:32 ah no, I didn't 19:37:45 that was on the course our co-teacher held 19:38:25 If I have time, I should eventually try to make a standalone programming tutorial based on what I tried to teach there. 19:38:48 With exactly the syntax elements I mentioned, and the same goals of what I wanted to teach, and much of the same example code and exercises. 19:39:11 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:42:59 Some of the lessons I tried to teach and should try to teach in such a tutorial are: printf-debugging; re-using functions for a different but related task; basics of runtime complexity of algorithms, by demonstrating the cubic and quadratic solutions to the last task in http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-ea5.html and telling that there is a linear time solution 19:43:33 ; how to use loops (this one is probably before the complexity one) 19:44:56 The start of http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-gy4.html tells about manually stopping a program that loops infinitely, and about printf debugging 19:46:43 These syntactic elements certainly aren't enough for practical programming, and I don't want to claim that either, I designed them to introduce people to what programming is about. 19:48:10 booleans as first class values you can assign to a variable is sort of a lesson, but I don't really emphasize it in this course 19:48:33 I do demonstrate passing arrays (which are also first class values) to functions though 19:49:11 passing arrays to functions is also a really good reason not to twach 19:49:17 teach c as first language 19:50:30 Just having to allocate memory to arrays, of which you might not know the size at start, is already a good enough reason. 19:50:35 Even if you don't pass them anywhere. 19:50:36 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal. 19:50:47 It's also a good reason for not using classical BASIC by the way. 19:51:17 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 19:51:25 Actually, both passing arrays to functions and growing arrays dynamically are good reasons against BASIC. 19:51:33 returning arrays is even more fun 19:51:38 Also BASIC won't print an array easily in a print statement. 19:51:38 -!- heroux has joined. 19:51:42 myname: I do return arrays 19:51:56 in c? 19:52:32 myname: in python, in that course. see http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/info1/info1-ea5.html 19:52:51 well, it's easy in python 19:52:53 the function forditott returns an array 19:52:56 exactly 19:52:58 it plain sucks in c 19:53:13 vecause you have to know all sorts of c specific shit 20:01:25 I happen to think that C and BASIC is OK 20:02:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:05:02 zzo38: it depends on the goal really 20:05:17 they wouldn't help the particular lessons I wanted to teach 20:05:30 It might help if you wanted a longer introduction with more programming 20:06:05 for c you wouöd need much time explaining why things work in a way you may not expect 20:06:07 or if you want a more low-level introduction teaching how the native execution model (C's) works 20:06:27 which is useful for some people, but not for those that will never program in a low-level language, which is like half of our students. 20:06:46 It's details the programmers will manage for those people. 20:10:34 -!- heroux has joined. 20:11:48 For those who will learn to program, they'll learn from other sources, my goal in that short course wasn't really that. 20:15:24 -!- augur has joined. 20:15:39 I have a question about git that I'll try to ask here. 20:17:12 I want to apply the difference between two commits (call them t1 and t2) to the current state (both index and checked out files, error if their difference conflicts with the changes applied). 20:17:25 The two commits are related but it's possible that neither is an ancestor of the other. 20:18:24 This should take into account the history, in that it traverses the commits from t1 to the common ancestor of t1 and t2 then to t2, and preferable also take into account the history between the commits and the commit currently checked out. 20:19:23 The index together with the checked out files may already have modifications, and applying the differences may conflict with these, or there can simply be a conflict between HEAD and those changes, in which case I want proper conflict markers as with a normal merge. 20:19:59 I want to know the best way to do this. What I think might work is this: ( git revert t2..t1 && git cherry-pick t1..t2 ) 20:20:45 Does that combination of two commands do what I want? Whether or not, what's the best way to do this, rather than that command? 20:21:02 If you're git people, please help. 20:24:11 maybe try asking it in #git 20:24:24 izabera: I had tried, but I might try re-asking later. 20:25:09 Basically I come from the svn world, and I still think subversion is much better in the sense that I understand how its model works, find it easier to know how to do anything I want in it, and like its model. 20:25:32 Nevertheless, I want to learn git, partly because I have to work with it, and partly because there's some things it does better. 20:25:54 I have learned a few things about git, but I don't really understand it. 20:26:33 I'm asking here because I think some people here, especially ais523, might be able to explain the intuition behind git better, even if #git helps in the specific commands. 20:27:07 And I think there's a regular besides ais523 who understands git, but I'm not sure who it is. 20:27:40 (I can try to answer Apache Subversion questions in return if it helps.) 20:31:01 Oh, unrelated question. What's that other library that tries to be source-compatible with MPFR? 20:33:15 <\oren\> never pour boiling fat onto ice 20:33:25 \oren\: why? 20:33:41 <\oren\> it splatters all over and burns you 20:34:06 <\oren\> i shouldn't be allowed to do science experiments 20:34:26 \oren\: what if you pour it from very far, like defending a castle in the winter by pouring hot oil on the intruders from the high castle wall? 20:34:47 <\oren\> luckily it wasn't that hot once it flew through the air. but still 20:36:30 It also is a waste of good ice 20:40:13 <\oren\> I'm tying to build a SSTS (single stage into the sun) vehicle 20:40:52 <\oren\> so I can get readings from the sun's atmosphere 20:44:48 <\oren\> the idea is i'll launch it at middaya nd fly straight up into the sun 20:45:48 What... why are you launching things into the usn 20:45:50 sun 20:46:15 <\oren\> to get science data from the sun 20:47:49 Who has authorized you to do this 20:48:48 <\oren\> uh... i dunno 20:49:57 \oren\: um, flying into the Sun is very difficult, for it requires lots of energy. 20:52:34 `unidecode 🂿 20:52:45 U+1F0BF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f 82 bf UTF-16BE: d83cdcbf Decimal: 🂿 \ 🂿 (🂿) \ Uppercase: U+1F0BF \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) 20:52:53 <\oren\> why? as long as I escape Kerbin flying straight at it 20:53:04 Oh, KSP 20:56:16 <\oren\> i mean, if i'm off a little then I'll be in a highly elliptical solar orbit, but a little shift with rcs at apohelion should fix that 20:57:31 Is it possible to, using Qt, use a completely custom character encoding? 21:09:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:10:23 -!- heroux has joined. 21:12:55 <\oren\> arghh you're right! 21:13:11 hppavilion[1]: I don't believe so 21:13:23 coppro: Damn :/ 21:13:24 <\oren\> I have to escape kerbin more like at a 30 degree angle to account for kerbin's orbit 21:14:15 hppavilion[1]: hmm actually it might be possible to replace its font rendere 21:14:17 *renderer 21:14:24 coppro: Perhaps 21:15:00 coppro: The issue is that Unicode doesn't have a character for XNOR, and I'd kind of like to experiment with making my own encoding anyway 21:15:12 What if you use Chuck Moore's huffman code based one 21:15:26 hppavilion[1], why not private use characters/ 21:15:32 Taneb: Possibly 21:15:45 coppro: Which is weird, because it has AND, OR, XOR, NAND, and NOR 21:15:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:16:23 hppavilion[1], fax the consortium! 21:16:31 ∧ ∨ ⊻ ⊼ ⊽ 21:16:39 maybe just do XOR with combining line above? 21:16:39 hppavilion[1]: yeah just use private use area 21:16:41 Taneb: Shall I encode the fax in EBDIC? 21:16:55 coppro: I could do that too, but making my own would be more fun xD 21:17:05 hppavilion[1]: it would for the first hour 21:17:10 coppro: Fair point 21:17:27 coppro: Pffffffft. I can't concentrate on a task for a WHOLE HOUR. 21:17:53 (Even on the copious amounts of medication I've been put on) 21:18:25 (Pretty sure I'm on the maximum recommended dose of dextroamphetamine for my BMI) 21:18:44 heh 21:18:57 want to help me write Mage Knight in Haskell? 21:19:02 coppro: Me? 21:19:12 What exactly IS Mage Knight? 21:19:40 Is it a classic game you're reimplementing, or just something that is back in the logs 21:19:40 coppro, potentially 21:19:48 hppavilion[1]: !classic game 21:19:56 Ah 21:19:56 Taneb: I should push what I have so far to GitHub 21:19:58 it's not a ton 21:20:04 I don't think I'm qualified 21:20:09 I still need to write up my spec for COMPLEX 21:20:16 And publish my implementation 21:20:19 My haskell isn't very good; when I close the tutorial, I always forget about it for a month 21:20:30 Taneb: currently annoyed at naming record constructors :P 21:20:41 I'm working on a humanitarian project called LIME Classroom 21:20:55 It's an online classroom for mathematics and computer science 21:21:06 (LIME = LIME Integrated Mathematical Environment) 21:22:12 Someone should make a total computable acronym that is /not/ primitive recursive 21:22:21 (Basically, the Ackerman of GNUs) 21:23:31 -!- boily has joined. 21:23:35 Taneb: https://github.com/scshunt/mage-knight 21:24:39 Interestingly, my Lenovo lags a lot when plugged in on High Performance mode 21:24:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:24:50 what is mage knight? 21:24:58 So I only put it on Power Saver (which is less laggy) when plugged in 21:26:20 myname: a board game 21:26:23 very puzzle-like 21:28:35 i googled that much. can you recommend reading or watching something that will help me get an idea of it? 21:28:47 What would be a good way to make a Fractran extension? 21:28:52 We don't have enough of those 21:28:56 -!- heroux has joined. 21:29:27 quaternions 21:29:42 myname: Perhaps, though I was thinking something more like polynomials 21:29:43 Oooh 21:30:03 Is there a hyperfractran? Fractran using root/log/exp/pow instead of mul/div? 21:30:04 myname: hmm 21:30:36 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYq6eft_XpI is from a well-reputed youtuber 21:30:54 the rulebooks are http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/mage/MK_rulebook_ENG_searchable-mar2012.pdf (base) and http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/mk-lost-legion-rulebook-en.pdf (expansion) 21:31:04 there's also a startup guide book but I don't have a link handy 21:41:12 fungot: nostril. 21:41:12 boily: we are entirely opposed to any form of discrimination. against this background, the european union. 21:44:26 myname: What would be a good way to implement IO in fractran I wonder... 21:45:15 fungot: So you're fine with discrimination against persons with a non-EU background? 21:45:16 hppavilion[1]: mr president, i would remind you that we had in austria. this measure will be subject to thorough control on the sale of potentially infected susceptible animals, and stepping up monitoring at all levels business, political and cultural integration of the environment is to be quantifiable, and governments need to obtain the consumer's explicit consent to receive a loan in the amount we had requested. it is the po 21:46:22 -!- groteworld has joined. 21:48:48 hppavilion[1]: fractions with particular (prime) denominators have certain effects when invoked 21:49:01 coppro: Perhaps that'll work 21:49:32 coppro: A more simple way, of course, would be to get batch input at program initialization, but that would also be less fun 21:49:55 helloily 21:51:49 quinthellopia! 21:52:53 I'm building a Canadian snack pack. a snacanapack. 21:54:07 coppro: Something I thought of was to use complex numbers and make the imaginary coefficient the "specialty flag" 21:54:52 -!- groteworld has quit (Quit: Big gulps? Well see you later!). 21:55:00 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:58:20 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:02:58 boily: oh? time to have another snackswap? 22:03:27 lemme know. g2g. 22:03:50 yup! I got exclusive limited edition stuff! 22:04:15 -!- Treio has joined. 22:08:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:20:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:28:43 boily: ohh 22:28:50 can I participate. I'll just send maple cookies 22:29:57 maple cookies are quintessential. quintopessentia. 22:38:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:39:55 hellørjan. 22:40:15 olsner: hellolsner. what's that Swedish February Pastry Day again? 22:40:27 boheily 22:53:45 @tell ais523 it's more like, [...] <-- even your explanation is oversimplified. the thing about gravitational waves is that unlike electromagnetic ones they _themselves_ have the "charge" they act upon (energy/momentum), so they interact with _themselves_. 22:53:45 Consider it noted. 22:55:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:56:06 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:56:16 -!- heroux has joined. 23:08:58 * boily loves Newton. it's wrong, but it provides a conforting illusion of understanding what the fungot is going on. 23:09:00 boily: the council has finally agreed to things which have been taking place produce results within the union over the next two or three chapters will remain for the danish presidency once again and quite forcefully, that energy is not a general and global nature and simply referring to a single species of cormorant and, on the contrary, it tries to fnord public opinion among israel’s civil population, which is also constantl 23:09:21 boily: Newton? 23:09:28 oh, you mean Newtonian mechanics 23:09:37 boily: JUST DON'T COMPLAIN WHEN YOUR GPS STOPS WORKING HTH 23:09:48 OKAY. 23:10:15 @tell ais523 or so some physicists hypothesize 23:10:15 Consider it noted. 23:10:41 maybe that's why I seem to have an anti-GPS aura... they always break when I'm around. 23:10:49 oooh 23:11:04 really. if you want to experience a sudden lack of signal, stick you GPS next to me. 23:11:10 boily: are you distantly related to wolfgang pauli 23:11:43 probably very distantly, but the possibility isn't completely excluded. 23:17:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:18:12 What is the primary weapon used by the military of the esoerotic empire? 23:19:25 we're not sure what it is, but it's shape is obvious. 23:20:13 oerjan: bananery? 23:20:58 with a hint of mushroom. 23:21:12 mapole! 23:22:28 What actually happens if you base a type system on Fuzzy Logic? 23:25:01 It becomes fuzzy. 23:25:57 zgrep: And what does that mean? 23:27:40 It manifests itself in the real, logical world, and becomes fuzzy. Like kittens. 23:28:01 Ah 23:29:08 Type system = kitten. 23:29:44 zgrep: Sure 23:29:55 * boily sticks a cat ear headband on fungot 23:29:56 boily: mr president, i would just point out that the question of the gas and electricity sectors. we should also remember that the council vote was unanimous. i was rushing out not to avoid double taxation of workers, we can see what happened no one is intending and the commissioner for his spontaneous reply and, of course, in part, 71, 72 and 73. 52 amendments are acceptable in principle, to market monitoring and the european 23:29:56 zgrep: Maybe we should invent a cross-language type system called "kitten" 23:30:01 `? type system 23:30:12 type system? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:30:18 hppavilion[1]: unfortunately the name kitten is taken my another programming language 23:30:31 By* 23:30:35 zgrep: Ah 23:30:49 zgrep: Maybe we should invent a cross-language type system /not/ called "kitten" 23:30:54 `le/rn type system/type system = kitten 23:31:04 Learned «type system» 23:31:45 zgrep: What would be good for a cross-language type system of that sort? 23:32:36 A name? 23:33:25 zgrep: KTS 23:33:37 (Kitten Type System) 23:33:49 Not to be confused with the type system of the Kitten Programming Language 23:34:12 No, I mean... What were you asking me? 23:34:26 eww. I hate cross-language type systems. 23:34:28 Hm... "Kitten Typesetting System"... 23:34:35 b_jonas: Wait, that's already a thing? xD 23:35:28 b_jonas: What's the problem with them? 23:37:20 -!- boily has set topic: The kitten typesetting channel | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | 100% of cpus on the wall ♪. 23:39:58 Can we change it back to contain “The international hub of esoteric programming languages and font design” ? We can delete some of the other old stuff except for the logs links if you want to fit recent stuff in it. 23:40:43 b_jonas: ... 23:40:53 -!- b_jonas has set topic: The international hub of esoteric programming language and font design | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | The kitten typesetting channel. 23:41:35 b_jonas: So what's wrong with XL-TSes? 23:41:45 boily: sorry 23:42:26 I'll rePDF the channel as soon as I update it. you can't silence me. MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH! 23:42:44 -!- Treio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:48:57 @metar CYUL 23:48:57 CYUL 132300Z 29013G25KT 15SM DRSN FEW035 FEW050 SCT110 SCT240 M24/M32 A3028 RMK SC2SC1AC1CI1 SC TR SLP260 DENSITY ALT MISG 23:49:24 wait what? is the Sun really only like 5000 K hot, rather than 6000 K ? 23:49:41 only 5000. 23:50:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SILVER CHICKEN). 23:51:02 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun says 5778 K 23:51:27 so below the boiling point of Rhenium on standard air pressure 23:52:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:56:15 what does that imply? 23:56:34 -!- LexiciScriptor has quit (Quit: LexiciScriptor). 23:56:45 izabera: nothing, I just found it strange that http://what-if.xkcd.com/ said 5000 deg C 23:57:42 -!- heroux has joined. 23:58:41 Also, that you couldn't boil the One Ring with sunlight concentrated by a lens, provided it's made of rhenium, but you might be able to melt it. 23:59:06 -!- MDream has joined. 23:59:32 Maybe the Company wouldn't have needed the supernaturally heated insides of Mount Doom, maybe concentrated sunlight with some lenses and mirrors would have been enough to melt the ring.