00:10:32 `run :(){ :|:& };: 00:10:33 No output. 00:16:09 -!- deltab has joined. 00:23:41 so uhm 00:23:44 stupid question 00:23:54 when you implement a language 00:24:21 what if you don't generate a tree with your parser 00:24:29 but only a list of instructions 00:24:42 then your static analysis sucks 00:24:45 no wait 00:24:58 Taneb: have you played mage knight? 00:25:43 i mean i want to convert if (a) { b; c; }; d to if (!a) goto d; { b; c; }; d 00:25:58 does that make sense? 00:28:04 sort of, I think a lot of old compilers worked like that, just reading and outputting assembly on the fly 00:28:59 ok great 00:29:15 but you can probably make something more readable easier by parsing and working with a tree 00:29:29 more readable than assembly?! 00:29:36 what is this whichcraft 00:29:47 i added an extra h didn't i? 00:30:07 ok it was just an idea 00:30:14 I meant your implementation would be more readable 00:36:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:41:45 diginet: I LIKE that conspiracy 00:42:42 myname: It was proven in the 1800s that angle trisection is like doubling the cube or squaring the circle 00:43:02 myname: In fact, angle trisection is one of the 3 classic unsolvable problems, just like those other two 00:43:21 myname: Though you can do it if you use paper folding instead of ruler/compass as your primitive 00:45:31 https://medium.com/@wilshipley/the-absolutely-true-story-of-a-real-programmer-who-never-learned-c-210e43a1498b 00:45:54 izabera: Also, you forgot the t 00:47:48 right 00:48:15 lifthrasiir: That's amazing. 00:48:31 hppavilion[1]: I actually learned of Sam Ritchie from that post 00:48:36 cf. http://www.wired.com/2013/11/twitter-summingbird/ 00:48:46 lifthrasiir: Who's Sam Ritchie, OOC? 00:48:53 hppavilion[1]: ^ 00:49:31 myname: Also, all one need do to square the circle is construct a length equal to sqrt(pi) relative to another length defined as length 1. hth. 00:50:08 lifthrasiir: Ah. 00:50:19 so actually the story is (likely to be) true 00:50:29 kind of neat trick 00:51:37 lifthrasiir: Is C awful, or just C++? 00:51:39 `tomfoolery C 00:51:44 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 00:51:46 tswett: ^ 00:51:52 `? C 00:51:55 C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 00:52:00 `? C++ 00:52:01 Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. 00:52:36 i just realized that this while (cond) body; 00:52:44 should be converted to this if (!cond) goto out; top: body; if (cond) goto top; out: ; 00:52:52 rather than this top: if (!cond) goto out; body; goto top; out: ; 00:53:44 izabera: ERROR: HALTING PROBLEM 00:53:49 no 00:53:50 hppavilion[1]: "C is the language of humans, and C++ is the language of youkai." 00:53:52 wat 00:53:53 http://uguu.org/nfo_meikaigumi.html 00:53:57 izabera: JK 00:54:01 (Rowling) 00:54:33 You know, I definitely would have expected the creator of a language to learn it and study it. 00:54:46 tswett: Yeah, probably 00:54:55 tswett: Though him not having done that explains a lot... 00:55:07 Anyway... 00:55:38 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:55:46 It's likely that C fulfills its particular niche better than any other language... or, at least, any other language that's commonly used. 00:56:01 Best way to encrypt a message: Transmit a fractran program that outputs the ASCII values of your message 00:56:08 No one would ever suspect that 00:56:11 Some people dislike C and C++, although I happen to like C, I much prefer C over C++ 00:56:16 C++ is widely hated, but it also fills its niche pretty well. 00:56:17 tswett: True, true 00:56:42 A person could argue that Rust does what C++ does, better than C++ does it. 00:56:48 But Rust is still in its childhood. 00:56:50 `? rust 00:56:51 Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell. 00:56:59 tswett: And what about C⁂? 00:57:01 `culprits wisdom/rust 00:57:06 tswett tswett tswett shachaf tswett 00:57:09 hppavilion[1]: you mean... C#? 00:57:20 tswett: No, C⁂ 00:57:27 tswett: Oh wait, that's still in the future 00:57:29 srry 00:57:31 Ah. 00:57:36 I'm going to tell you about C# anyway. 00:57:54 I keep forgetting what's already happened and what is yet to come 00:57:57 I'd say C# is pretty much nothing like C and C++. It's more similar to, say, Python. 00:58:15 (Because I live in complex time, which isn't well-ordered) 00:58:21 `unidecode ⁂ 00:58:22 ​[U+2042 ASTERISM] 00:58:30 what 00:58:32 that thing has a _name_ ? 00:58:42 coppro: It was recommended to me as S(#) 00:58:55 ++ = S('') 00:58:57 izabera: did you expect it to be called TRIANGULAR ARRANGEMENT OF ASTERISKS? 00:59:01 # = S('++') 00:59:07 ⁂ = S('#') 00:59:15 hppavilion[1]: how do you arrive at that conclusion? 00:59:28 coppro: It was recommended by someone. Probably shachaf. 00:59:55 Of course, S('++') could also be "objective-" 01:00:00 ? 01:00:02 It's really just in name at this point though 01:00:17 # languages are nothing like their namewise predecessors 01:00:31 Yeah, F# is nothing like F and F++. 01:00:33 Speaking of which, I'd like to see a low-level (C-level, that is) language called F 01:00:38 However, Objective-C at least is a strict superset of C, meaning that all C codes can be used. 01:00:41 tswett: Yes, exactly 01:00:51 zzo38: True, true 01:01:14 tswett: Mostly because F# currently exists while F and F++ do not, LTIC 01:01:33 So it has that advantage, that if something is using/requiring Objective-C then you can still use a C code without needing a modification 01:01:44 zzo38: Yeah 01:01:51 zzo38: Swift is good, I've heard 01:01:59 -!- Yurume has joined. 01:02:07 woot 01:02:10 Then again, the only devs I know IRL are apple geeks who do a lot of Unity 01:02:18 Yurume: Been here before? 01:02:20 Of course, Microsoft Access is the future of computing. 01:02:24 Yurume: Or are you new? 01:02:37 hppavilion[1] : same to lifthrasiir :) 01:02:50 Yurume: ? 01:03:05 eh I meant I AM lifthrasiir 01:03:09 Yurume: Are you lifthrasiir with an alt ni- ah 01:03:15 `notrelcome Yurume 01:03:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: notrelcome: not found 01:03:26 The NS INFO commands is not saying such thing? 01:03:27 this is another (mobile) client I'm using 01:03:36 Ah 01:04:12 my friend runs an app with built-in IRC bouncer which I frequently use 01:04:26 (By which I mean: Microsoft Access is a sort of rapid application development tool. I imagine "the future of programming" as combining the ease-of-use of something like Access with the flexibility of "real", text-based programming.) 01:04:35 I think it does not have a way to identify the nick 01:05:25 tswett: What's access? 01:05:39 tswett: Oh, right, the DB 01:05:47 (My grandpa LOVES Office) 01:06:18 tswett: ever tried game maker? 01:06:35 * izabera started programming with game maker 01:06:44 I have used Microsoft Office and Microsoft Access before; I happen to prefer SQLite for the databases, it is better system. 01:06:55 And for typing formatted documents, I use TeX. 01:07:11 dammit who was it linked "the internet is for porn" now i've got that song on my brain 01:07:28 zzo38: Yes, I agree 01:07:33 the internet is for pom 01:07:41 The internet is for Kerning 01:07:58 pom and keming 01:08:02 The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too 01:08:13 `? internet 01:08:14 internet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:08:17 `? the internet 01:08:18 the internet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:08:19 GASP 01:08:28 YOU HAVE FAAAAAAAAAAAAILED US 01:08:36 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:08:43 does `learn handle 'the'? 01:08:51 olsner: It does not 01:08:56 oerjan: Wait, it does 01:08:57 It does. 01:09:04 Whoopse, olsner 01:09:06 *whoops 01:09:12 `learn The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too. 01:09:16 Learned 'internet': The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too. 01:09:18 olsner: It ignores `the 01:09:44 `le/rn_append internet/Except porn. 01:09:47 Learned 'internet': The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too. Except porn. 01:09:55 `revert 01:09:59 perhaps it should've been a quote of zzo38, but it made so much sense encylopedically 01:10:06 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:10:20 olsner: We have `tomfoolery for ACCURATE messages. 01:10:21 zzo38: What can be done better without use of internet? 01:10:25 I have used Game Maker as well but no longer do, it isn't as good as other program, because for one thing is not Free software, and some other problems too. However you can look at my game if you want to, I included the source file so that you can try to examine it with whatever program you want to 01:10:36 `cat le/rn 01:10:37 sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "Learned «$key»" 01:11:03 shachaf: Well, such as stuff that isn't on computer (for example if you want to write it by hand), or to run local computations and files on your computer. 01:11:06 zzo38: Also, a LOT of people like to obfuscate their code because they think that anything made in a thing like that can be treated as protectable work 01:12:11 izabera: I haven't tried Game Maker, no. 01:12:13 Yes, although I do not. As far as I am concerned it makes it more difficult to port or do other things with if it is obfuscated and mixed up 01:12:27 zzo38: Good. 01:13:10 zzo38: I am firmly of the belief all games smaller than a full-scale game should be developed from scratch (using whatever libraries/bindings are convenient). 01:13:22 I've found Microsoft Excel to be a really useful product. 01:13:46 hppavilion[1]: That may be true; I don't know. I can program for Famicom as well; do you know how? 01:13:48 tswett: Fair enough 01:13:55 zzo38: Nope. 01:14:12 Like... you should see the stuff I've done with Excel. 01:14:21 (A "Full-scale game" being something that requires an engine to be even considered) 01:14:33 Arguably, Excel actually isn't very good at doing what I'm doing. 01:14:33 Excluding, of course, educational games (that is, games developed to learn programming) 01:14:38 But everything else is even worse. 01:14:38 `` echo 'key=${1,,}; shift; cat <<< "${*,,}" > "wisdom/$key" && echo "Learned «$key»"' > le/nn 01:14:40 No output. 01:14:59 now pizza 01:15:14 `cat tmflry/random number 01:15:15 echo $RANDOM 01:15:16 Then you must learn Famicom programming. 01:15:18 ` le/nn thisisatest this is a test 01:15:18 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:15:23 `` le/nn thisisatest this is a test 01:15:24 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: le/nn: Permission denied 01:15:27 `call/cc 01:15:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/call/cc: No such file or directory 01:15:34 `` chmod +x le/nn 01:15:37 No output. 01:15:38 ` le/nn thisisatest this is a test 01:15:39 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:15:41 `mk call/cc 01:15:42 usage: mk[x] file//contents 01:15:44 for christ sake 01:15:49 `` le/nn thisisatest this is a test 01:15:51 Learned «thisisatest» 01:15:54 `mkdir call 01:15:54 `? thisisatest 01:15:55 No output. 01:15:55 this is a test 01:16:07 `` rm wisdom/thisisatest 01:16:10 No output. 01:16:14 `touch call/cc 01:16:14 I made up the game "Attribute Zone" which is the puzzle game based on the limitations of Famicom PPU; these limitations are the important part of the game 01:16:17 No output. 01:16:27 now everyone can use le/nn instead of le/rn 01:16:27 echo "echo $RANDOM" > call/cc 01:16:31 Wait, no 01:16:32 much better interface 01:16:34 `call/cc 01:16:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/call/cc: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/call/cc: cannot execute: Permission denied 01:16:43 I'm an idiot 01:16:47 Forgot to put it in bin 01:17:06 `ls call 01:17:08 cc 01:17:12 you don't have to put it in bin 01:17:17 just make it executable 01:17:27 `rm call 01:17:28 rm: cannot remove `call': Is a directory 01:17:36 `rm -rf call 01:17:37 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 01:17:48 `rm call/* 01:17:49 rm: cannot remove `call/*': No such file or directory 01:17:51 earenndil: Thank you, I was just about to try that, then remembered I'm an idiot 01:18:00 And it would probably delete the entirety of hackbot 01:18:19 oh, true 01:18:21 * earenndil looks abashed 01:18:24 Oh, nvm 01:18:49 `rm -r call 01:18:50 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 01:19:00 `rm call -rf 01:19:01 rm: cannot remove `call -rf': No such file or directory 01:19:08 `rmdir call 01:19:08 rmdir: failed to remove `call': Directory not empty 01:19:15 `rm call/cc 01:19:15 `ls call 01:19:18 cc 01:19:19 No output. 01:19:21 `rmdir call 01:19:21 No output. 01:19:27 `ls call 01:19:28 ls: cannot access call: No such file or directory 01:19:38 `mkdir bin/call 01:19:39 No output. 01:19:49 echo "echo $RANDOM" > bin/call/cc 01:20:12 `call/cc 01:20:13 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/call/cc: No such file or directory 01:20:29 `touch bin/call/cc 01:20:31 No output. 01:20:35 echo "echo $RANDOM" > bin/call/cc 01:20:52 `call/cc 01:20:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/call/cc: No such file or directory 01:21:01 I give up 01:21:06 I'll leave it to someone smart 01:21:17 why are you trying to create bin/call/cc? 01:21:26 what will that do? 01:21:40 earenndil: Well... um... 01:21:43 `ls bin 01:21:44 ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ blessyou \ bookofeso \ botsnack \ bseen \ bugs \ buttsnack \ ca 01:21:54 That's where all the other ` commands are 01:22:23 okay? 01:22:31 `@ 01:22:32 No output. 01:22:42 earenndil: So I assumed that would work... 01:22:52 work to do what 01:22:56 I think it does not have a way to identify the nick <-- you can do that with a manual privmsg to nickserv 01:23:04 earenndil: Make it so I could `call/cc 01:23:11 `ls bin/le 01:23:13 ls: cannot access bin/le: No such file or directory 01:23:24 `ls le 01:23:25 oerjan : well, no privmsg to nick 01:23:25 nn \ rn \ rn_append 01:23:29 Oh 01:23:31 that is a kind of problem 01:24:21 earenndil: See, I haven't gotten Linux working on my laptop yet, so I don't know the way bash works very well xD 01:24:40 `which le 01:24:41 No output. 01:24:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:24:44 `which le/rn 01:24:45 le/rn 01:24:50 `where le/rn 01:24:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: where: not found 01:24:59 `pwd 01:25:00 ​/hackenv 01:25:17 `rm bin/call/cc 01:25:19 No output. 01:25:24 `rmdir bin/call 01:25:25 No output. 01:25:32 My joke wasn't very good anyway... 01:25:35 `ls bin 01:25:36 ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ blessyou \ bookofeso \ botsnack \ bseen \ bugs \ buttsnack \ ca 01:25:39 OK, good 01:25:56 earenndil: Have a better joke for `call/cc 01:26:04 `@ Hi 01:26:05 No output. 01:26:09 `* 01:26:10 wälcåmä 01:26:14 `* 01:26:15 hello-world-in-any-language 01:26:26 `hello-world-in-any-language C 01:26:27 Hello, World 01:26:35 Ah, I do quite like that one 01:26:43 -!- groteworld has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 01:26:50 `hello-world-in-any-language bf 01:26:51 Hello, World 01:27:09 earenndil: It's really just "echo 'Hello, World'" 01:27:15 oerjan: Wait, it does <-- i should think so, since i implemented that. 01:27:28 oerjan: you should think so, but do you? 01:27:46 `hello-world-in-any-language Compute 01:27:47 Hello, World 01:27:48 earenndil: See 01:28:20 why do nopl and nopw take arguments? 01:28:40 no, no, it's generating code in whatever language you specify to print out "Hello, world" and then executing said code 01:29:17 -!- earenndil has changed nick to Elronnd. 01:29:23 earenndil: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Compute hth 01:29:29 Oh, you're Elronnd xD 01:29:35 I was wondering if you were new 01:30:03 I'm also Aah, Ellbereth, Gilthonniel, and realdonaldtrump 01:30:05 `hello-world-in-any-language Spanish 01:30:06 Hello, World 01:30:28 (Maybe we should special case Spanish...) 01:30:51 -!- andrew has joined. 01:31:15 `cat bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:31:16 echo Hello, World 01:31:38 -!- heroux has joined. 01:31:45 Elronnd: Anybody who puts "real" in front of their handle to clarify that they aren't a parody will, from now on, make me think of mysql_real_escape from PHP 01:32:27 (I don't do PHP, but I know about it) 01:33:26 `echo 'if [ $1 -eq "Spanish" ]; then echo "¡Hola, mundo!"; else echo "Hello, world!"; fi > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:33:28 ​'if [ $1 -eq "Spanish" ]; then echo "¡Hola, mundo!"; else echo "Hello, world!"; fi > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:33:37 `echo 'if [ $1 -eq "Spanish" ]; then echo "¡Hola, mundo!"; else echo "Hello, world!"; fi' > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:33:37 ​'if [ $1 -eq "Spanish" ]; then echo "¡Hola, mundo!"; else echo "Hello, world!"; fi' > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:34:17 Elronnd: Switch would be better for the purpose of extension. If bash has switch. 01:34:33 Wait, this is bash, not sh? 01:34:44 that aside, sh suports case statements as well 01:34:46 Elronnd: Maybe it is sh? 01:34:59 `hello-world-in-any-language TheLanguageOfLove 01:34:59 Hello, World 01:35:04 `hello-world-in-any-language Spanish 01:35:05 Hello, World 01:35:14 but anyway, how can I modify bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:35:17 Elronnd: FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL 01:35:27 `cat bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:35:28 echo Hello, World 01:35:36 hppavilion[1]: Did you what happened above? it didn't actually get modified 01:35:57 Elronnd: Not exactly sure 01:36:01 `hello-world-in-any-language test 01:36:02 Hello, World 01:36:05 `hello-world-in-any-language Spanish 01:36:05 Hello, World 01:36:15 Elronnd: Yeah, you spelled it right 01:36:21 Elronnd: OH! 01:36:23 `echo "echo Hello, test" > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:36:24 ​"echo Hello, test" > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:36:24 You forgot to `` 01:36:35 ``echo 'if [ $1 -eq "Spanish" ]; then echo "¡Hola, mundo!"; else echo "Hello, world!"; fi' > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:36:36 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found 01:36:41 `` echo 'if [ $1 -eq "Spanish" ]; then echo "¡Hola, mundo!"; else echo "Hello, world!"; fi' > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:36:43 No output. 01:36:52 `hello-world-in-any-language Spanish 01:36:52 ​/hackenv/bin/hello-world-in-any-language: line 1: [: Spanish: integer expression expected \ Hello, world! 01:36:53 `hello-world-in-any-language Spanish 01:36:54 ​/hackenv/bin/hello-world-in-any-language: line 1: [: Spanish: integer expression expected \ Hello, world! 01:37:03 * Elronnd sighs 01:37:25 Elronnd: I think we should probably create a directory of hello worlds, and make it just default to "echo Hello, World!" 01:37:30 Elronnd: For the purpose of jokes 01:37:40 No no, I'll set up the case thing 01:38:14 Elronnd: case is less extensible 01:38:29 Elronnd: Honestly, a directory would make more sense. 01:38:32 what? You just said it would be *more* extensible 01:38:35 Fine 01:38:45 Elronnd: Yes, but it would be less extensible than a directory 01:38:52 `mkdir bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:38:52 mkdir: cannot create directory `bin/hello-world-in-any-language': File exists 01:38:53 More extensible than IF, less than directories 01:39:00 Elronnd: Just call the bin hw 01:39:04 `cat bin/hw 01:39:05 cat: bin/hw: No such file or directory 01:39:07 `rm bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:39:12 No output. 01:39:14 Elronnd: NO! 01:39:15 `mkdir bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:39:16 No output. 01:39:29 hppavilion[1]: what? 01:39:32 Elronnd: Here's what we should do 01:39:48 Oh, I see 01:39:53 make a directory *above* bin 01:40:10 Elronnd: bin/hello-world-in-any-language should be the command, /hw is the language fiels 01:40:11 I think you should scrap the whole thing. 01:40:12 *files 01:40:13 and then make hello-world... cat out ../hello_world_languages/$1 01:40:20 shachaf: We probably should 01:40:33 Elronnd: BUT it should default to just "Hello, World!" 01:40:34 * Elronnd shrugs 01:40:56 `mkdir hw 01:40:57 No output. 01:41:23 `touch bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:41:24 No output. 01:41:57 echo "cat ../hw/$1 | echo" > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:42:11 `mkdir call <-- you don't need that for `mk any longer 01:42:17 oerjan: Oh? 01:42:23 `` echo 'if [ -z $1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat /hw/$1; fi ' 01:42:25 oerjan: Ah, right, you made it better 01:42:51 Elronnd: Forgot to redirect hth 01:43:10 if [ -z $1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat /hw/$1; fi 01:43:14 `` echo 'if [ -z $1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat /hw/$1; fi ' > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:43:15 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: bin/hello-world-in-any-language: Is a directory 01:43:32 `rmdir bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:43:33 No output. 01:43:40 `` echo 'if [ -z $1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat /hw/$1; fi ' > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:43:42 No output. 01:43:49 `hello-world-in-any-language 01:43:49 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/hello-world-in-any-language: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/hello-world-in-any-language: cannot execute: Permission denied 01:43:51 `hello-world-in-any-language 01:43:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/hello-world-in-any-language: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/hello-world-in-any-language: cannot execute: Permission denied 01:43:56 Elronnd: I was expecting that to happen 01:44:09 Elronnd: I think we need to copy privledges or something 01:44:37 `ls -l bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:44:38 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 01:44:38 I think you should just scrap it. 01:44:48 shachaf: nooooo 01:45:11 nOO00oo..oo00OO00oo..ooo 01:45:42 nO0o.o0O0o.o0O0o.o0O 01:45:55 Elronnd: `nooo? 01:45:57 `nooo 01:45:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nooo: not found 01:46:18 `chmod 7 bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:46:19 chmod: missing operand after `7 bin/hello-world-in-any-language' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 01:46:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:46:32 `chmod 755 bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:46:33 chmod: missing operand after `755 bin/hello-world-in-any-language' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 01:46:51 hmmm 01:47:02 Forgot to put it in bin <-- that wasn't the reason, and you would have saved a lot of work if you'd actually read what others were saying hth 01:47:10 oerjan: Oh? 01:47:21 (hi from backscroll) 01:47:32 `sh -c "chmod 755 bin/hello-world-in-any-language" 01:47:32 sh: 0: Illegal option - 01:47:35 oerjan: The joke was stupid anyway 01:47:47 Elronnd: Seriously? 01:48:38 oerjan : well, no privmsg to nick <-- are you sure your client is legal 01:48:52 oerjan: I apologize for what you're about to find when you reach Elronnd and my shennanigans 01:49:18 ^ 01:49:54 -!- boily has joined. 01:49:59 oerjan : the app simply does not have an interface for that, or did you mean the legality of protocol? 01:50:21 `chmod bin/hello-world-in-any-language 755 01:50:22 chmod: missing operand after `bin/hello-world-in-any-language 755' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 01:50:28 `chmod --help 01:50:28 Usage: chmod [OPTION]... MODE[,MODE]... FILE... \ or: chmod [OPTION]... OCTAL-MODE FILE... \ or: chmod [OPTION]... --reference=RFILE FILE... \ Change the mode of each FILE to MODE. \ \ -c, --changes like verbose but report only when a change is made \ --no-preserve-root do not treat `/' specially (the default) \ --pr 01:50:52 hppavilion[1]: the problem is that *HackEgo* is combining "755" and "bin/hello-world-in-any-language" into a single argument to chmod 01:50:59 Elronnd: OH! 01:51:13 `` chmod 755 bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:51:17 No output. 01:51:22 OH! 01:51:27 `hello-world-in-any-language 01:51:28 Hello, world! 01:51:31 `hello-world-in-any-language C 01:51:31 cat: /hw/C: No such file or directory 01:51:48 Elronnd: Close enough 01:52:11 -!- groteworld has joined. 01:52:14 `` echo '#include int main(void) { printf("Hello, world!"); } > hw/C 01:52:15 `` echo "Hello, Segfault!" > hw/C 01:52:16 ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:52:17 oerjan: you should think so, but do you? <-- occasionally. 01:52:20 No output. 01:52:23 Elronnd: Whoops 01:52:55 Elronnd: We don't want to give the HW code (there's a whole Github repo for nothing but that) 01:53:07 where would that be? 01:53:11 Elronnd: We just want to make jokes about what programs tend to do 01:53:27 Elronnd: Just duck duck go "hello world " and it'll autogive you the result 01:53:29 ohhh 01:53:30 -!- groteworld has quit (Client Quit). 01:53:45 `` echo "SyntaxERR" > /hw/python 01:53:49 `hello-world-in-any-language C 01:53:49 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /hw/python: No such file or directory 01:53:50 cat: /hw/C: No such file or directory 01:53:57 `ls hw 01:53:59 C 01:54:04 Weird 01:54:13 `touch hw/python 01:54:17 No output. 01:54:23 `` echo "SyntaxERR" > /hw/python 01:54:25 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /hw/python: No such file or directory 01:54:29 `` echo "SyntaxERR" > hw/python 01:54:32 No output. 01:54:43 `hello-world-in-any-language python 01:54:44 cat: /hw/python: No such file or directory 01:54:49 Elronnd: That's weird 01:55:02 `cat bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:55:03 if [ -z $1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat /hw/$1; fi 01:55:05 I personally kinda prefer the (also valid) headerless C "hello world": int main() { int puts(const char*);puts("Hello, world!"); } 01:55:11 OH! 01:55:12 sed 's/\/hw/hw' bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:55:26 `` sed 's/\/hw/hw' bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:55:28 sed: -e expression #1, char 9: unterminated `s' command 01:55:31 Elronnd: The issue is you aren't .. ing 01:55:37 Yes 01:55:40 I got that 01:55:43 Elronnd: Also, you need -i for sed to write to the file 01:56:06 Elronnd: Are you fixing it or should I? 01:56:16 you can do it 01:56:51 `` sed -i 's/\/hw/..\/hw/' bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:56:55 No output. 01:57:02 `hello-world-in-any-language python 01:57:03 cat: ../hw/python: No such file or directory 01:57:04 * izabera didn't know that you can declare functions in other functions in c 01:57:11 izabera: WHAT!? 01:57:15 YOU CAN DO THAT!? 01:57:19 ... 01:57:19 Dammit 01:57:21 pikhq_ did it 01:57:39 99+2i bottles of beer on the wall 01:57:41 welcome to C. you can do anything in C. the only limit is you. 01:57:49 hppavilion[1]: I think that paths are relevant to the directory *you* are in, not that the program is in 01:57:50 boily: Which is a pretty severe limit. 01:57:55 Elronnd: Oh 01:58:02 hppavellon[1]. please refrain from imaginarifying bottles twh 01:58:16 `` sed -i 's/..\///g' bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:58:17 Elronnd: We could just have "pwd" in it as a test 01:58:20 No output. 01:58:28 `hello-world-in-any-language python 01:58:30 cat: python: No such file or directory 01:58:36 what's the idea of all this? 01:58:44 `cat bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:58:45 if [ -z $1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat $1; fi 01:58:45 is it meant to be funny or what? 01:58:45 shachaf: We're being idiots 01:59:04 * Elronnd isn't an idiot 01:59:08 ^ is what an idiot says 01:59:17 but because I didn't say that, I'm better than other people 01:59:21 I'm *not* an idiot xD 01:59:22 `` sed 's/$1/hw\/$1' bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:59:23 sed: -e expression #1, char 11: unterminated `s' command 01:59:28 `` sed 's/$1/hw\/$1/' bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:59:29 if [ -z hw/$1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat $1; fi 01:59:36 Oh 01:59:37 Right 01:59:48 hppavilion[1]: You are only allowed to declare a standard function without including the header if you can declare it without using types from any standard headers. 01:59:51 (FTR, I'm not -i ing intentionally, so I can make sure I got it right) 01:59:56 I think we should just start over instead of messing with sed 01:59:58 `` sed 's/\$1/hw\/\$1/' bin/hello-world-in-any-language 01:59:59 if [ -z hw/$1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat $1; fi 02:00:01 ... And yes, you can do it from function scope, not just global scope. 02:00:02 I think you should scrap the whole thing. <-- i'm inclined to agree. 02:00:08 but then, i'm grumpy. 02:00:23 `` echo 'if [ -z $1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else cat hw/$1; fi' > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 02:00:24 i'm also grumpy 02:00:26 No output. 02:00:29 pikhq_: but why? 02:00:34 `hello-world-in-any-language C 02:00:35 Hello, Segfault! 02:00:37 but i was less grumpy before the whole thing starter 02:00:37 YES! 02:00:39 started 02:00:40 `hello-world-in-any-language python 02:00:42 SyntaxERR 02:00:42 YESYESYESYESYESYES 02:00:47 the function you declare isn't scoped 02:00:50 YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA 02:00:57 `hello-world-in-any-language thislanguagedoesnotexist 02:00:58 cat: hw/thislanguagedoesnotexist: No such file or directory 02:01:02 NONONONONONONONONO 02:01:08 WE CAN FIX THAT 02:01:13 Elronnd: HOW 02:01:15 izabera: I believe the declaration actually is scoped. 02:01:22 oerjan: There. 02:01:30 But anyways, the reason for it is because pre-standard C let you do the same. 02:01:42 Elronnd: Maybe we should have a `mood command... 02:01:44 NO 02:01:45 And ISO C tried to break as little as possible. 02:01:50 ^ Says everyone else on the channel 02:02:07 hppavilion[1]: if you know that you're making everyone else unhappy, why do you keep doing it? 02:02:19 `` echo 'if [ -z $1 ]; then echo "Hello, world!"; else if [ -f hw/$1 ]; then cat hw/$1; else echo "Your language does not exist"; fi; fi' > bin/hello-world-in-any-language 02:02:20 No output. 02:02:26 shachaf: Because... I'm... um... 02:02:38 Elronnd: Perhaps we should do this via private messaging HackEgo? 02:02:49 ...probably 02:03:15 someone should probably have told Elronnd about `mkx at this point. 02:03:21 Elronnd: That's... um... that makes no sense 02:03:21 It works! 02:03:29 -!- groteworld has joined. 02:03:30 what does `mkx do? 02:03:46 Elronnd: Why do you have auto-echo "Hello, world" AND "Your language does not exist"? 02:03:51 `relcome groteworld 02:04:00 ​groteworld: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 02:04:06 hppavilion[1]: if you don't give it an argument, it says "hello, world" 02:04:14 Elronnd: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH 02:04:27 pikhq_: so it's only limiting what you can do 02:04:31 We should have `gofuckyourself for people who are assholes... Luckily, that never happens. 02:04:54 Elronnd: Now we should FILL the hw directory 02:04:55 we should do that though 02:04:59 YES 02:04:59 Via privmsg, of course 02:05:37 oerjan: I apologize for what you're about to find when you reach Elronnd and my shennanigans <-- APOLOGY ACCEPTED. also someone should have explained HackEgo's basic command execution by now. 02:05:50 oerjan: Yeah, yeah 02:06:32 @metar CYUL 02:06:32 CYUL 150100Z 24010KT 15SM FEW240 M20/M28 A3052 RMK CI1 CI TR SLP343 02:06:48 oerjan : the app simply does not have an interface for that, or did you mean the legality of protocol? <-- i mean that there may be an expectation that you can answer private messages, say for example if an op were giving you a warning... 02:06:55 -!- groteworld has quit (Client Quit). 02:06:57 woot... it's warming up... rejoice... 02:07:21 oerjan : afaik there is none. 02:10:33 * oerjan seems to have got stuck 20 minutes behind the present 02:13:46 oerjan: you're at least 6 hours in the future or thereabout. I wouldn't worry about a meager twenty minutes. 02:13:50 have you considered that /hw/ and hw/ are not the same thing hth 02:14:31 one's obviously slashier than the other, but I feel like I'm missing something important... 02:14:38 oerjan: Yes, we got it working 02:15:12 `hello-world-in-any-language java 02:15:13 Memory overflow 02:15:41 Error in thread '#esoteric' java.lang.NullPointerException 02:17:14 yay you found it out. and i'm _still_ 20 minutes behind. 02:17:22 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:17:35 lol 02:17:57 oerjan: at this rate you'll never catch up 02:18:03 You can add entries by adding files to hw/$languagename containing the string you want to print 02:18:08 `hello-world-in-any-language chef 02:18:09 Combine the computer and the water in the mixing bowl. 02:18:27 `hello-world-in-any-language fungot 02:18:28 boily: the next item. we were literally taken for madmen, for people who live in the most scandalous silence, without the need for detailed examination of the chemicals in use today and the issues they raise were the subject of peace with us here. 02:18:28 Your language does not exist 02:18:39 `hello-world-in-any-language befunge 02:18:40 Your language does not exist 02:18:44 beuh. 02:22:53 has someone written a brainfuck extension that allows for X yet? 02:23:19 oerjan: There. <-- does that mean you'll slow down enough for me to catch up to the present? 02:23:55 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:24:00 oerjan: how far behind are you 02:24:28 Elronnd: X? 02:24:45 Xorg? Windowing system? 02:24:47 -!- heroux has joined. 02:24:53 oerjan: 🎁 02:27:48 now i'm just 10 minutes behind... watch out 02:28:13 * Elronnd sets his snooze for 10 minutes 02:29:14 oerjan: how far behind are you <-- 5 minutes hth 02:29:39 I AM HERE 02:29:51 oerjan: did you like the present 02:30:06 there's some strange unicode around here 02:30:16 `unidecode 🎁 02:30:23 U+1F381 WRAPPED PRESENT \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8e 81 UTF-16BE: d83cdf81 Decimal: 🎁 \ 🎁 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 02:30:29 ah. 02:30:48 i did not unwrap it as i couldn't see it properly. 02:31:04 ooh, swatter polish 02:33:44 swatter polish? like paste you rub on your swatter to make it shine and go faster? 02:34:31 sure, subsonic swatters are _so_ 2015. 02:34:33 boily: if you're not careful oerjan will use his swatter canadian on you 02:35:04 `` ls hw/*ask* 02:35:07 ls: cannot access hw/*ask*: No such file or directory 02:36:59 * boily hides from oerjan's hypersonic swatter 02:37:00 i'm so confusing that oerjan doesn't even know which swatter to use on me 02:37:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CANNED CHICKEN). 02:37:27 I am trying to write a JavaScript program that can communicate with Xlib 02:40:39 zzo38: nodejs or browser? 02:41:02 `ls hw 02:41:03 For nodejs 02:41:04 brainfuck \ c \ chef \ java \ python \ shakespeare 02:42:02 Communicating with Xlib would be silly to do in the browser I expect (you can use XUL and/or HTML instead in such a case) 02:43:09 yeah, just checking you weren't trying to do something ludicrous 02:43:26 would it even be possible to do it from the browseR? 02:43:29 s/R/r 02:44:05 Possibly in a privileged context (not a webpage), although I don't know for sure 02:50:54 Since I could not figure out how to properly make up a plugin, I decide instead to use a program written in C that it is used by pipe with the JavaScript program; it may also later to implement things other than Xlib also in the same C code and JavaScript module that would call it, such as music, and possibly partially SQLite, possibly also a few others 02:52:21 zzo38: If you want to use a pipe you could connect to the X server directly and communicate using the X protocol. 02:53:56 zzo38: Here's a library: https://github.com/sidorares/node-x11 02:54:40 shachaf: I am aware of that, but I would find it easier to just use Xlib. That node-x11 package seems a bit incomplete and some documentation missing too as far as I can tell; I have looked at it. Anyways I do intend to later add music as well, so it isn't only Xlib anyways 02:55:28 I don't even know if that package supports X Resource Manager functions? 02:59:25 I can then make Athena-like widgets on top of that, probably the widgets would be written in JavaScript, although I may add a few functions in the C code to help with such thing too 03:07:50 @tell Vorpal ais523: what about a pure call stack (just calls on it) and one data stack? That is still TC then? <-- underload without a and * can easily be implemented that way, i think, since you don't get anything on the call stack that's not just the remainder of something in the original program. 03:07:50 Consider it noted. 03:08:10 oerjan: I made that point too 03:08:35 @tell Vorpal aimake doesn't do cross compilation yet 03:08:35 Consider it noted. 03:09:00 @tell Vorpal although the fix would probably involve separate BUILDOS and HOSTOS 03:09:00 Consider it noted. 03:09:05 ais523: you mentioned underload without a and *, but not that it had a pure call stack. 03:09:11 that i've seen yet. 03:09:31 I thought I mentioned that too (that you couldn't put anything on the call stack that wasn't in the original program, so that each call stack element had finitely many options) 03:10:04 yes, you said the bits, but you said them before Vorpal asked that question so i assume it wasn't an obvious deduction 03:11:07 -!- jaboja has joined. 03:11:46 @tell Vorpal in other words, what ais523 mentioned counts as "pure call stack" imo 03:11:46 Consider it noted. 03:15:26 @tell Vorpal also iirc the right call stack in my TM/minsky constructions contains only ! and ^ commands, nothing nested. 03:15:26 Consider it noted. 03:21:05 subtle cough is sub-TC but it can't be far off <-- i thought about unlambda minimalization a bit, you need at least one of s and c for non-halting. i haven't found any TC subsets without s and k yet, though. 03:21:39 and if you have s and k you don't need anything else 03:21:44 right 03:22:05 my first thought was c and i, I don't know how close that is 03:22:24 adding i gives you nothing but itself 03:22:36 also v doesn't help. 03:22:55 if you have c, v has the /possibility/ of helping 03:23:03 without it it's totally useless :-D 03:23:31 yes, but it doesn't, i checked c+i+v and i'm not sure if i finished k as well. 03:23:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:23:46 -!- heroux has joined. 03:23:59 since i was most interested in excluding s 03:24:06 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 03:24:46 ais523: v is not actually _totally_ useless without c. you can program with e and CPS. 03:24:55 and i think the result is BF-complete 03:25:15 e? 03:25:26 (e needed only to halt the program from your deeply nested computation) 03:25:35 e is the "halt program" function 03:25:38 How would you read one character and print it in unlambda? 03:25:55 lambda-11235: unlambda has a specific command for doing basically that, which is cheating really 03:25:55 hm i think i checked that e doesn't help with c+i+v as well. 03:26:13 without using it, you need to read input and check against all possible ASCII characters 03:26:22 @unlambda ``@|iTest 03:26:22 T 03:26:29 lambda-11235: ^ 03:29:37 yes, when i wrote the unlambda in unlambda interpreter, i needed a full character table for implementing ?x but i could use | to implement .x 03:30:38 can you ? and | the same input character? 03:30:51 that would seem useful for, say, Underload-in-Unlambda 03:30:59 What happens if you replace the call stack with... 03:31:00 Hm... 03:31:11 (which incidentally revealed a bug in some of the interpreters such as the distribution C one, they don't distinguish 255 from EOF) 03:31:15 A graph? 03:31:34 ais523: yes, that should be possible. 03:32:26 oerjan: is that a failure in reading in the original program, or something that happens later? 03:32:27 hppavilion[1]: with enough call/cc use, you nearly have that already. 03:32:39 oerjan: Oh yeah... 03:32:43 oerjan: How about a hypergraph? 03:33:01 Does that only work with call/cc-h? 03:33:13 ais523: the EOF test compares the read character to -1 but it's stored in a char... 03:33:20 lambda-11235: Welcome, I suppose 03:33:29 oerjan: easy mistake 03:33:34 hppavilion[1]: heck if i know 03:33:37 and theoretically, there could be a C interp where that works 03:33:44 although it'll fail on most 03:33:44 yeah 03:33:45 Elronnd: Ah, Xorg? 03:34:06 We should make hyper call/cc 03:35:27 Elronnd: So, GUI4BF basically? 03:35:56 Yes 03:36:34 Elronnd: Hm... 03:36:41 Elronnd: How, precisely, does Xorg work? 03:36:50 hppavilion[1]: there are delimited continuations, but i have only a vague idea about them. 03:36:51 Elronnd: Is it syscall/register stuff, or something higher 03:36:58 poorly 03:37:11 oerjan: That doesn't sound hypergraphic 03:37:14 a program will send signals to the X server which will in turn draw things on the screen 03:37:23 I'm thinking a command to give the character on the current cell to the X server instead of to stdout 03:37:27 hppavilion[1]: well i don't know enough about them to prove they aren't :P 03:37:50 i know they can supposedly implement mutable state all by themselves 03:38:29 I have written a few C programs that use Xlib, one is to display a PNG file (it is much faster than ImageMagick) and other one is to make up a menu for window operations (including delete window, the process ID, and signals) 03:38:29 Elronnd: You could try something more like PSOX, but I would recommend a complete new set of features; perhaps pbrain with special procedures? 03:38:35 Elronnd: hm, if all you want is colour output, maybe just have . write to the (VGA?) framebuffer and advance a pointer, cyclically 03:38:49 Elronnd: I did have an idea for libraries with BF with pbrain-style functions 03:39:10 and also that they're enough to make monads in an imperative language 03:39:14 that way you could theoretically render something complex like text, but it'd be awful 03:39:26 (without extra syntax) 03:39:40 You use the | full-line command to import a library, which uses the value in the current cell and defines the functions as that value+ 03:39:45 FireFly: you mean write ANSI colour codes? 03:40:40 no, I mean like, you'd write the red channel for the top-left pixel, then the green channel for the top-left pixel, then ..., until you reach the blue channel of the bottom right pixel 03:40:42 then restart 03:40:59 Hm 03:40:59 Only problem is that the function numbers are dynamic (consider `,\n|socket`), but that can surely be resolved 03:41:02 it'd be awful 03:41:55 although I guess it wouldn't be impossible to, say, output a disc or something 03:42:35 FireFly: That sounds incredibly slow 03:42:45 yup 03:42:53 Elronnd: If you're interested, I am designing a BF-like language for OS development 03:42:56 but hey, with a fast enough implementation 03:43:01 or a small enough display 03:43:16 hppavilion[1]: You're going to write an OS. In bf. 03:43:22 Elronnd: A BF derivative 03:43:25 Writing one in C is hard enough! 03:43:25 -!- atslash has joined. 03:43:27 Elronnd: Already did, though I can't test it 03:43:42 why not? 03:43:45 VMs are a thing 03:44:24 Elronnd: I need a compiler 03:44:36 Elronnd: http://pastebin.com/Swiu63ub has an example in an earlier iteration of the language 03:45:11 Oh, I thought you meant that you had already written an OS in C 03:45:30 Elronnd: Oh 03:45:50 Elronnd: Well, same goes for writing an OS in C: I can't get a cross-compiler to compile for some reason 03:45:52 I've tried 03:46:00 It's probably because I'm not using a Linux 03:46:23 that might be it 03:47:32 Elronnd: Did you look at the BF TestOS? 03:49:44 hppavilion[1]: I have not heard of that 03:50:08 Elronnd: The one I just sent you a pastebin link to 03:50:12 http://pastebin.com/Swiu63ub 03:50:33 It's based on my limited knowledge of ELF 03:51:11 @tell izabera oerjan: that's not very nice :( <-- my apologies but the last few days _every_ newbie has made the same mistakes 03:51:11 Consider it noted. 03:51:40 oerjan: What wasn't very nice? 03:51:52 Better yet, izabera: What did mean ol' oerjan say? 03:52:20 berating you all for having a goldfish's memory of HackEgo syntax hth 03:52:27 oerjan: Ah. 03:52:44 oerjan: I envy goldfishes' ability to use bash 03:53:04 izabera might be asleep. it would be the sensible thing at this time. 03:55:13 oerjan: We don't have school tomorrow here in `murica 03:57:05 hppavilion[1]: Oh, I thought you meant somebody had made an OS with vanilla BF 03:57:11 I hope someone makes BF bindings for LLVM 03:57:48 izabera is not in america afaik 03:58:36 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:59:20 -!- heroux has joined. 03:59:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:59:34 Elronnd: No, no, no 04:00:33 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:07:58 why not? 04:08:02 what's wrong with LLVM? 04:08:14 Elronnd: No, I was referring to the first part 04:08:20 oh 04:08:23 yeah, I got that 04:13:51 Hmmm 04:13:55 you're printing things 04:14:08 Have you defined a terminal/display in your compiler? 04:14:26 Elronnd: ... 04:14:26 No 04:17:27 Elronnd: Why? 04:17:33 Elronnd: What exactly is happening? 04:20:25 -!- adu has joined. 04:24:36 hadu 04:25:45 hi 04:25:59 wusup? 04:26:20 adu: I'm stuck thinking about OSFuck 04:27:16 hppavilion[1]: what's that? 04:27:30 adu: BF derivative designed for OS development 04:29:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:29:54 I wonder how you would efficiently compile BF to JVM 04:31:53 adu: Probably with algorithms hth 04:34:40 lol 04:35:20 compiling a superset to a subset is easy 04:35:36 but how do you compile a subset to a superset? 04:36:05 adu: You just compile it to ASM and assemble it 04:36:19 hppavilion[1]: but that wouldn't be "efficient" 04:36:36 adu: How not? 04:36:36 I wouldn't want + to be compiled to inc 04:36:42 adu: Why not? 04:36:48 I would want +++++ to be compiled to add 5 04:36:51 Is inc inefficient 04:36:55 adu: Ah, That's easy 04:37:09 Just RLE the program and map everything to an ASM pattern 04:37:19 right, but what if there's a loop around the +++, then I would want it to compile to mul 04:37:37 adu: Ah, yes. Now you're explaining properly 04:37:46 adu: However, how do you know how much it's going to loop? 04:37:47 adu: I wrote a compiler that does just that in Clojure. 04:37:55 and if theres a double loop around that, I would want it to be compiled to exp(y*log(x)) 04:37:59 adu: Sounds uncomputable 04:38:29 adu: I think the RLE is efficient enough 04:38:45 For example, ,[>,[+]] 04:38:54 Wait, no 04:39:12 Something with that technique though though 04:39:24 lambda-11235: link? 04:40:04 hppavilion[1]: it's basically pattern matching on every node in the syntax tree 04:40:29 adu: If you have a syntax tree, you're probably doing it wrong 04:40:45 A syntax [(Char, Int)] is all you need 04:40:54 hppavilion[1]: I'm describing the general issue, and by extension it's application to BF 04:40:57 adu: https://github.com/lambda-11235/brain, although it probably doesn't do as many optimizations as you're talking about. 04:42:57 https://github.com/matslina/awib does more of what your talking about. 04:43:04 interesting 04:43:38 adu: The first compiler I ever wrote. :) 04:43:52 lambda-11235: So /are/ you new? 04:45:35 lambda-11235: Or just an altnick? 04:46:03 hppavilion[1]: To this channel? Yeah. 04:46:14 `relcome lambda-11235 04:46:29 hppavilion[1]> adu: If you have a syntax tree, you're probably doing it wrong <-- if you don't have a tree, you're probably underestimating the problem hth 04:46:34 ​lambda-11235: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 04:46:39 There. 04:46:54 oerjan: Perhaps 04:47:30 oerjan: agreed, I think 04:48:53 i have a hunch (even though i've never written an optimizing compiler of anything, even brainfuck) that the _really_ hard part is dealing with code that searches around on the tape. 04:49:16 because you essentially would have to correctly guess how the data is laid out. 04:49:45 adu: Would you happen to know the algorithm for logical negation in BF? 04:50:27 anything that only deals with 2 cells should be optimizable to a simple command in principle. 04:50:59 hppavilion[1]: nope 04:51:07 with 3 unbounded cells it's TC so obviously unsolvable. 04:51:18 oerjan: Do you? 04:51:33 do what 04:51:48 oerjan: BF ! 04:52:18 rarely. 04:52:37 i did write that 3 cell proof. 04:52:49 oerjan: I mean BF logical negation? 04:52:52 *. 04:52:59 OKAY 04:53:07 *OKAY! 04:53:53 -!- Xe has quit (Quit: *.yolo *.swag). 04:53:53 oerjan: Do you know how to do logical negation in BF? 04:53:57 oerjan: you remind me of the man 04:54:04 which man 04:54:09 the man with the power 04:54:46 hppavilion[1]: sure. >+<[>-<[-]] 04:55:00 copy first if needed. 04:55:20 -!- Xe has joined. 04:55:38 oerjan: TY 04:55:42 YW 04:55:44 tdh, tfth, etc 04:56:10 shachaf: i think i am not acquainted. 04:57:49 @google "you remind me of the man" 04:57:49 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU9wLjk4II8 05:00:02 -!- perrier_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:00:48 AAAA 05:01:04 * oerjan has trouble with comedic embarassment 05:01:21 -!- perrier_ has joined. 05:02:37 @google you remind me of the babe 05:02:37 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4gABvUhhkg 05:09:46 -!- lynn has joined. 05:15:38 shachaf: somehow that was slightly less embarassing. slightly. 05:21:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:35:19 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:42:13 I think that LodePNG is a much better PNG library than libpng. I think one of the same people who was on esolang made up LodePNG, that is how I could easily found it 05:43:00 LodePNG does omit some of the more obscure features of PNG that libpng gives you access to. 05:43:20 ... But, on the other hand, libpng is awful enough I almost prefer writing PNG reading/writing code *myself* to using it. 05:43:35 zzo38: and the same person has worked on zopfli 05:43:40 Or, modify LodePNG if you need the obscure features 05:44:13 pikhq_: libpng is like curl but without curl_easy_* calls 06:12:16 I'm currently watching the last Harry Potter movie 06:17:44 spoiler: voldemort dies 06:17:56 spoiler: the world continues 06:21:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:24:33 it's 7:15 am and i checked my email and linda walsh posted a 300 lines script to the bash mailing list and i want to kill her 06:24:38 why is it illegal 06:25:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:27:27 -!- andrew__ has joined. 06:27:50 life is so unfair 06:28:08 izabera: *sigh* 06:28:15 izabera: What did billy say to you today? 06:29:15 hppavilion[1]: a bash user sent a bash script that could have been text explaining the problem 06:29:43 izabera: Ah 06:30:27 Elronnd: Still on? 06:30:38 yes 06:30:55 -!- andrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:31:11 why? 06:32:01 Elronnd: Just curious 06:33:37 Elronnd: Ah, I knew I had something to ask you, but I doubt it's relevant anymore 06:33:56 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:33:58 Elronnd: Did you find something wrong with my BF TestOS? From the parts you can understand, at least? 06:35:20 Elronnd: I'd send you the documentation for the non-vanilla commands, 06:35:39 but I'm currently in the process of obsoleting the language in favour of something better 06:37:22 hppavilion[1]: it looked okay from what I understood of it. The comments and the syntax explained it pretty well 06:37:45 <\oren\> izabera: did the script at least demonstrate the problem? 06:37:52 Elronnd: Yay! I'm not a shit commenter! 06:38:17 <\oren\> or was it a script they just posted and asked "it doesn't work, help?" 06:39:34 hppavilion[1]: Don't trust anything I say though, I mostly skimmed and read the comments 06:40:01 OK 06:40:44 -!- Treio has joined. 06:43:06 <\oren\> holy shit they used canned clapping during the gop debate 06:48:42 <\oren\> or so the rumours claim. I don't see any evidence 06:55:10 <\oren\> Ben Carson made up a fake stalin quote 06:59:06 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4). 07:03:44 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 07:03:44 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 07:03:45 -!- catern has quit (*.net *.split). 07:03:55 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 07:03:57 -!- relrod has quit (*.net *.split). 07:03:59 -!- shachaf has joined. 07:04:02 -!- relrod_ has joined. 07:04:02 -!- FreeFull has joined. 07:04:05 -!- relrod_ has quit (Changing host). 07:04:05 -!- relrod_ has joined. 07:04:13 -!- atehwa has joined. 07:10:48 -!- catern has joined. 07:10:51 \oren\: What was the quote? 07:11:02 And in what context did he use yt? 07:11:24 (Rule: s/i/y/ yf you happen to feel lyke yt) 07:11:50 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:12:53 Elronnd: I'm also trying to make a computerized Nomic called λ-nomic 07:13:01 nomyc 07:13:01 Elronnd: It's written in LISP :) 07:14:19 The gamerules, not the actual interpreter 07:17:46 @metar EGBB 07:17:46 EGBB 150650Z 32009KT CAVOK M00/M01 Q1022 07:18:09 izabera: I like it, y is close to an upside-down λ 07:18:25 ג is close to λ in some fonts. 07:22:38 `unidecode ג 07:22:53 ​[U+05D2 HEBREW LETTER GIMEL] 07:22:59 coppro: What's the two-nick thing about? 07:23:26 shachaf: hysterical raisins 07:25:28 <\oren\> "Joseph Stalin said if you want to bring America down you have to undermine three things -- our spiritual life, our patriotism, and our morality," Carson said, puzzling some observers, who couldn't quite place the remark. 07:27:31 http://206.174.0.58/lambda/rules and http://206.174.0.58/lambda/funcs 07:27:58 Now that I know anything about LISP, I know it isn't very /good/ LISP (it's imperative) 07:29:36 purely functional nomic 07:29:46 without any mutable state 07:29:55 hth 07:30:42 oerjan: tdnh 07:30:48 oerjan: tchm,bwnhp 07:31:09 Wait, it looks like LISP does have imperative-ish things 07:31:28 of course it does. lisp isn't particularly pure. 07:31:58 do you guys know this? https://github.com/esseks/monicelli 07:34:47 can't compile that :\ 07:38:09 Did you know the German word Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz can't be translated into English!? 07:39:41 as a germann why not? 07:40:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:40:19 "Cattle marking and beef labelling supervision duties delegation law" 07:40:25 Looks translatable to me. 07:40:35 myname: It's a joke about people who say certain words can't be translated 07:40:46 They certainly can, they just don't come cleanly in a word or two 07:41:05 it doesn't in german, too 07:41:14 But I doubt it takes more than a paragraph to translate a used word in any reasonable spoken language 07:41:15 Eh, only real difference is English likes putting spaces in its compound noun phrases. 07:41:30 i like the jewish chuzpe more 07:41:36 <\oren\> "rind flesh ticketing over watching off gave over trackings sets" 07:41:39 "Cattlemarkingbeeflabellingsupervisiondutiesdelegationlaw" is about what'd be like if we *didn't*. 07:42:37 pikhq_: That'd be amazing. I'm kind of tempted to learn German (I'm already set up to take the class in my next year of high school, so it's too late to still be tempted) and start incorrectly applying its grammar rules to english xD 07:43:24 it should be easier to parse german because of this stuff 07:43:41 Beef labeling monitoring delegation Act 07:43:51 ^ Google translate is surprisingly good with german 07:44:02 myname: Programming language based on german? 07:44:10 <\oren\> yesterday after I geeaten dinner i geate ice cream 07:44:26 well, there is GERMAN which isn't really funny 07:44:39 That'd be "Old English grammar". 07:44:45 <\oren\> there's probably more to it than adding ge- to the start of past tense verbs 07:44:54 myname: That's anti-funny 07:45:02 Not surprisngly, Old English had, y'know, more of the classic Germanic syntax in it. 07:45:07 At some point in my life, there's going to be a hilarious joke told 07:45:20 And I won't be able to laugh because that article was anti-funny 07:45:24 \oren\: I think you'd omit ge- there. 07:45:31 ah, geeaten is like gegessen? 07:45:36 Past-tense programming? 07:45:46 `"hello world" was printed` 07:46:04 future 2 programming! 07:46:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: "hello: not found 07:46:06 "Eaten" and "ate" are already Germanic strong verb conjugations. 07:46:33 yeah, but gegessen vs essen is a thing 07:46:36 myname: You should use your german superpowers to make a non-non-funny german programming language 07:47:50 myname: Sure, but not in that sentence. :) 07:48:37 Ah. Huh! 07:48:50 i would say so 07:49:10 "Eaten" effectively has the "ge" prefix in it. In Middle English that become "y-", and it was mostly dropped. 07:49:19 ... But "eaten" starts with that sound already. 07:50:15 it was a hard time for me figuring out "_a_ university" 07:52:26 -!- Treio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:55:15 And I won't be able to laugh because that article was anti-funny <-- that'll be the wurst 07:55:49 i see what you did there 07:56:07 \oren\: the other thing is that you move the verbs to the end of the sentence hth 07:56:43 not all sentences 07:57:01 the verbs that get ge-ed, i mean. 07:57:27 also infinitives 07:57:51 yeah, finite verbs are at the second positiin, except for dependent clauses 07:58:48 oh right in dependent clauses they too go to the end. 08:00:09 "ich werde gefahren worden sein wollen" 08:00:27 love it 08:01:32 i.e. there is some point in the future at which i wanted to be driven 08:02:23 oh right, and worden drops the ge- again 08:02:40 when the chain gets too long 08:03:03 there is no such thing as a chain too long :p 08:03:15 OKAY 08:03:27 i love writing sentences spanning three or four lines 08:04:37 i see what you did there <-- you can blame david morgan-mar for that one. 08:04:59 should i know him? 08:05:20 he makes irregular webcomic! and some other comics 08:05:37 Everyone has heard of David Morgan-Mar. 08:05:52 some alone, some in collaboration, some crowd sourced 08:05:55 obviously, i do not 08:06:19 and one autogenerated 08:07:00 i wonder what happens if we feed fungot with some joke websites 08:07:00 myname: there was an ad hoc way, will concentrate firstly on securing ambitious and credible. our europe, does in any case i invite the commission now highlights what it considers to be essential for the european union 08:07:01 he's practically a deity in here 08:07:03 iwc was the first webcomic i read. learned about it here. 08:07:06 but perhaps myname lacks piety 08:07:11 oh hm 08:07:15 ^style iwc 08:07:15 Not found. 08:07:21 hm i thought... 08:07:23 ^style 08:07:23 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 08:07:28 ^style iwcs 08:07:28 Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) 08:07:37 fungot: please demonstrate 08:07:37 oerjan: no, of the house, so he wasn't joking i don't bolivia! 08:07:50 fungot: that's not a very good demonstration 08:07:50 oerjan: not even waving the swatter around? 08:07:50 oerjan: our own webcomic! character would die a horrible, i hesitate to mention, but significantly in the past. as the people of nigeria! 08:08:07 shachaf: i missed your sentence, too much happening. 08:08:17 oh, an oots style 08:08:36 `` cat bin/olist | r13 08:08:41 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: r13: command not found 08:08:45 `` cat bin/olist | rot13 08:08:46 rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ funpuns \ brewna \ Ftrb \ SverSyl \ obvyl \ abeggv \ o_wbanf 08:08:50 myname: oh right, DMM also made esolangs back in the day. Chef, Ook! and Piet are among his. 08:09:05 myname: do you want to be added to olist? 08:09:13 oerjan: you can't stop logreading just because you're in the channel 08:09:14 oh, 2 out of 3 aren't that bad 08:09:25 shachaf: you get no swat since you reminded me of his esolangs hth 08:09:54 shachaf: i have a webcomic reader reminding me. also, i have a few 100 strips yet to read 08:11:06 oerjan: did you read the olist pdf thing yet 08:11:28 what pdf thing 08:12:15 start of darkness 08:12:36 oh, is that meant to be a pun on "heart of darkness"? 08:12:39 whatkkks that 08:12:48 if so i missed it until now 08:14:10 oerjan: you can't stop logreading just because you're in the channel <-- i don't, but i don't necessarily read the moment it's spoken, especially when i'm already trying to respond to something else 08:15:41 oerjan: did you read the olist pdf thing yet <-- it is safe in my backup that i still haven't copied back to my pc after the repairs hth 08:15:58 you can also just download it again presumably hth 08:16:16 what is that pdf about? 08:16:16 shachaf: i dunno, i never bothered registering at the site 08:16:44 myname: it's a comic book. shachaf made the bad decision to give it to me as a surprise gift. 08:17:01 what to do to get it? 08:17:08 this happened _just_ as my catching up with everything web was going downhill. 08:17:18 *buy it to me 08:18:52 oh, is that meant to be a pun on "heart of darkness"? <-- oh it must be, given "The origin of PCs" 08:19:21 oerjan: oh, i didn't get that one until now either 08:19:36 oh that one i got before 08:19:36 is PCs pronounced with emphasis on the first syllable? 08:19:43 i think so 08:19:52 i think it rhymes perfectly with the pun 08:19:58 or wait 08:20:12 That's why I didn't get it. 08:20:59 oh wiktionary claims species could be pronounced either way 08:21:14 but the pun works regardless, i think 08:21:50 huhwhat 08:21:56 what's this Heart of Darkness thing? 08:22:10 shachaf: oh hm, it was origin of PCs you bought btw afair 08:22:16 oh 08:22:21 right 08:22:24 because of durkon's prophecy 08:22:27 never mind 08:22:36 and what's Origin of the PCs a pun on? 08:22:46 I'm not good with English puns and pop culture 08:23:11 the other one isn't available as pdf 08:23:15 b_jonas: On the Origin of Species 08:23:24 ah 08:23:30 that Darwin thing 08:23:46 ok, thanks, I could never have figured this one out 08:24:05 from the hints we've gotten about xykon and redcloak's past, i don't think i would _want_ to read start of darkness. 08:24:17 it's, like, pretty dark. 08:24:19 Which hints? 08:24:47 or maybe spoilers i've read somewhere 08:24:52 (or both) 08:25:01 oerjan: oh come on, it can't be much worse than the Kin-Slaying and the Oath of Feanor, can it? 08:25:02 Looking at FAQ for Pale Moon browser reveals some new settings that I believe are good idea, including "network.stricttransportsecurity.enabled" and "dom.disable_beforeunload", as well as features I have not thought of ("canvas.poisondata", which tampers with data read from canvas areas). Most of these features probably can be implemented in Firefox as well (possibly with userChrome.js), but may be more complicated to implement. 08:25:21 well, let's just say redcloak has very good reason to hate humans. 08:25:34 b_jonas: i didn't read that far in the silmarillion, either. 08:26:02 I do think that userChrome.js extension is one of the best Firefox extensions I am using; many things can be done with it, including stuff that it seems no other extension does 08:27:11 Probably all the OOTS book titles have some sort of reference in it that I don't understand. 08:28:02 I'm just going to wait until there's a Complete Olist of the Stick book. 08:28:13 I don't like having lots of small books. 08:28:26 shachaf: SMALL? 08:28:32 they aren't really that small, at least some of them 08:28:42 also, you may have to wait a decade then 08:28:55 That's fine. 08:29:30 what's this Heart of Darkness thing? <-- a famous book by joseph conrad. i think that's also pretty dark hth 08:29:50 do you not like dark books? 08:30:12 oerjan: is it true that "Ørjan" has emphasis on both the first and second syllable twh 08:31:52 b_jonas: not much. 08:32:45 I would think that HSTS setting could have three settings: "enabled", "allow user override", and "apply to location bar". The "apply to location bar" setting is only applicable if HSTS and relative location bar are both disabled, and if enabled means that HSTS is used to decide the protocol when the user has entered a domain name in the location bar without specifying which protocol to use. 08:33:30 The good guys always lose. 08:34:42 b_jonas: The alternative: Everyone always lose..... 08:36:09 oerjan: Is it true that øerjan contains a null set? 08:36:41 shachaf: it has second pitch accent, which does make the second syllable feel stronger than if it had first pitch accent. at the same time, i find the main stress hard to ascertain. 08:38:35 hm after a little testing, i think it's on the first. 08:38:50 i cannot get it to scan in a verse with the second. 08:40:25 Question. If you're writing a compiler that you bootstrap with another compiler, what are good words to mean (a) the already working compiler you bootstrap with, (b) this compiler you're bootstrapping, and (c) the output this compiler shall produce? 08:42:08 b_jonas: ghc seems to call the compilers stage 1 and stage 2 08:44:28 There should be more creative names than that. Such as "laces", "boot without laces", "boot". :P 08:44:38 (although those aren't that creative...) 08:45:02 Or did I read something wrong in that sentence... 08:45:12 huh italian wikipedia is spamming me with email notification despite never having contributed... oh hm 08:46:50 oh well. 08:47:51 i suppose someone there was just overenthusiastic 08:48:28 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:53:48 oerjan: yes, but I'd prefer relative ones 08:53:52 relative words 08:53:59 not absolute ones 08:54:19 oerjan: yeah, some wikipedias do that: 08:54:33 -!- I has joined. 08:54:57 -!- I has changed nick to Guest34332. 08:55:07 oerjan: it's a combinations of, (1) auto-creating an account if you just visit, (2) auto-greeter bots that greet even if you never edit, and (3) accounts created with email notification for edits to your user talk page enabled by default 08:55:33 oerjan: one of those three is wrong, but I'm not sure which, there are some good arguments for each 08:56:23 in combination, they results in emails in languages you don't understand from just clicking on a link 08:56:35 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:56:37 I've got a few such emails 08:56:49 well, accounts are global now, so (1) is correct i think 08:56:53 -!- Guest34332 has changed nick to atslash. 08:56:57 oerjan: not necessarily 08:57:17 well i'm automatically _logged in_ everywhere. 08:57:17 oerjan: StackExchange has global account, but creates an account on each site only when you first request one 08:57:45 after you create an account on a SE site, you can no longer back out without godly intervention, you get auto-logged in, but you have to allow creating the account in first place 08:57:57 something like that could have worked for wikimedia projects global accoutns 08:58:06 but even then 08:58:26 auto-getting greeting emails in languages you don't understand, even if you never edit, seems strange 08:58:37 anyway, i sort of like (1). 08:58:51 yeah (2) seems odd. 09:00:09 well i guess that's case closed, then. i _did_ visit it.wikipedia today to look up that "untranslatable word" from izabera's link (the last part of it means "trowel".) 09:00:17 oerjan: sure, but you could say (2) makes sense because if a user is going to edit, then maybe it's better to greet a user with useful links about how to edit usefully _before_ he edits 09:00:31 heh 09:00:41 what? that was a German word. why it.wikipedia? 09:00:59 hm no? 09:01:14 oh not a word discussed in channel. 09:01:33 one mentioned on that github page izabera linked. 09:01:48 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/B_jonas shows I have accounts on way more (centrally authed) wikimedia projects than I've edited 09:02:23 I've edited on 17 projects (if you count even single edits like creating a userpage), 09:02:40 supercazzola 09:02:57 wasn't it Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz ? 09:05:06 no, it was supercazzola. 09:05:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:05:44 a supercazzola is just some random made up words that sound like plausible words, they're said quickly so the person you're talking to doesn't understand what you're talking about and whether you're making fun of them or not 09:06:06 That sounds like a useful concept 09:06:15 it was made popular by an old italian movie 09:06:33 i first tried en.wiktionary, which was a little ambiguous (except telling that the normal spelling was cazzuola), so i went to it.wikipedia to check what it normally meant. 09:07:02 izabera: that would explain why i couldn't find any of the _other_ words on that github page :P 09:08:01 they're taken from that movie 09:08:06 Taneb: a very cromulent concept indeed 09:09:07 I see 09:09:14 so it's like “kiszera méra bávatag” 09:09:31 (invented by a Karinthy short story) 09:10:31 -!- heroux has joined. 09:21:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:25:57 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 09:25:58 -!- zadock has joined. 09:26:11 -!- gde33|2 has joined. 09:28:53 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:28:55 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:34:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:42:58 -!- heroux has joined. 09:45:51 Add into JavaScript some new features: arguments.generator, macro, WeakMap.prototype.watchGC (may be useful with FFI), etc 09:46:00 What is your opinion? 10:01:47 -!- lleu has joined. 10:01:57 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 10:01:57 -!- lleu has joined. 10:03:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:22:45 -!- I has joined. 10:23:09 -!- I has changed nick to Guest33799. 10:23:56 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:09:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:10:31 -!- Treio has joined. 11:12:29 -!- bender|_ has joined. 11:17:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:21:55 -!- Treio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:31:23 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:34:45 -!- boily has joined. 11:51:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:52:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:53:04 -!- bender|_ has changed nick to bender|. 12:03:11 -!- mroman has joined. 12:03:49 adult captchas: Select all images with balls. 12:09:03 -!- heroux has joined. 12:14:08 oh look, the results of http://www.underhanded-c.org/ have been out for a while 12:14:32 There's no rule that Haskell's fromInteger has to be a ring homomorphism, is there? 12:18:17 Tanelle. I think there may usually be a convention for it to be true, but I don't think Haskell enforces that. 12:18:22 YMMVV. 12:22:55 Taneb: Num instances aren't necessarily rings in the first place. 12:23:25 I know, I know 12:23:30 Floats are weird 12:23:55 floats aren't rings? 12:27:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BARRACUDA CHICKEN). 12:28:21 > (0/0) * 0 :: Float 12:28:22 NaN 12:28:35 @tell boily NaN * 0 == NaN 12:28:36 Consider it noted. 12:29:01 also addition isn't associative hth 12:29:27 @quickcheck \a b c -> (a + (b + c) :: Float) == ((a + b) + c) 12:29:27 Unknown command, try @list 12:29:30 > (0.1+0.2)+0.3 == 0.1+(0.2+0.3) 12:29:31 False 12:29:32 this isn't nornal, but in floats, it is 12:29:37 @check \a b c -> (a + (b + c) :: Float) == ((a + b) + c) 12:29:39 *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 2 tests and 84 shrinks): 12:29:39 -0.17450391 3.4075708 -1.7455688 12:30:08 what are shrinks? 12:30:24 psychologists 12:31:00 their assistance is usually required after dealing with floating-point arithmetic 12:32:29 Taneb: no way. Floats aren't even a ring. 12:34:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:37:12 -!- heroux has joined. 12:59:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:03:10 -!- heroux has joined. 13:12:09 -!- Treio has joined. 13:22:10 -!- andrew__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:25:46 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:26:56 -!- heroux has joined. 13:30:32 -!- Reece` has joined. 13:31:16 -!- Reece` has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:13:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:31:30 -!- heroux has joined. 14:33:34 -!- Treio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:41:14 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:49:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:51:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:56:15 -!- heroux has joined. 14:58:39 -!- spiette has joined. 14:59:01 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:00:10 -!- heroux has joined. 15:05:04 -!- Treio has joined. 15:07:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:16:58 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:23:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:24:52 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:25:23 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 15:26:17 -!- ^v has joined. 15:31:30 -!- heroux has joined. 15:34:49 [wiki] [[BF-PDA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46405&oldid=18186 * LegionMammal978 * (+13) /* External resources */ 15:48:13 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 15:51:45 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 16:01:28 -!- bender| has quit (Quit: Ping Pong Fuckout). 16:15:10 -!- spiette has joined. 16:17:58 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 16:45:34 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:54:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:04:07 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod. 17:04:47 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:04:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:11:36 -!- heroux has joined. 17:28:09 -!- variable has joined. 17:39:47 [wiki] [[Norfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46406&oldid=16175 * LegionMammal978 * (+39) /* External resources */ 17:44:21 <\oren\> I'm doing lowercase fraktur, and uppercase blackboard bold 17:45:34 great! 17:48:08 http://spinroot.com/courses/summer/Papers/dijkstra_1975.pdf 17:48:16 do...od OMG 17:48:25 someone must go back in time and kill dijkstra 17:49:31 But then we might still be using goto 17:49:39 we still do 17:50:01 Oh god 17:50:01 <\oren\> we're already still using... fuck stupid english tense system 17:50:10 "James explains why World War II series of Extra History won't use swastika of Nazi Germany." 17:50:10 Did someone go back and kill Dijkstra already 17:50:13 nazi nazis :( 17:50:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:58:57 <\oren\> how are they supposed to spot nazis if there's no swastikas labelling them? 17:59:10 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:59:26 \oren\, maybe they'll use double zigzags 17:59:51 -!- heroux has joined. 18:00:31 <\oren\> oh, ᛋᛋ? 18:00:36 <\oren\> lame 18:01:53 ehwhat 18:05:49 <\oren\> it's stupid to fear the symbol of an ideology so much that you avoid using it even in teaching the history of that ideology 18:07:08 <\oren\> it's like if you had a history of islam without the shahada and the star and moon, or a history of communism without a hammer and sickle, or for that matter a documentary about christianity with no crosses... 18:10:06 <\oren\> seriously, what if you had Stalin in front of a flag with a yellow Ю on it. ridiculous 18:13:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:13:53 \oren\: yes, it's stupid 18:14:27 \oren\: but note that they might be trying to avoid legal trouble, for fear that some lawyers could turn the laws against them 18:15:09 <\oren\> oh, censorship laws... 18:15:15 <\oren\> blahhhhhh 18:15:29 \oren\: you don't live in a country with laws against using hammer-sickle, red stars, arrow-crosses and swastikas in certain context, do you? 18:15:56 I hear it's even worse in Germany. 18:16:03 <\oren\> no, canada has laws against hate speech, not against specific symbols associated with hate speech 18:16:13 sure, those too 18:17:58 i saw a youtube video saying english people have problems with the pf sound 18:18:03 is that true? 18:18:18 There's a pf sound? 18:18:25 what sound? 18:18:33 yeah 18:18:40 the german word for horse is pferd 18:18:52 myname, yeah, that seems a bit difficult 18:19:03 weird 18:19:27 <\oren\> that sounds kind of like ts but with your lips 18:20:03 no, ts has a completely different positio of the tongue 18:20:31 -!- adu has joined. 18:20:34 in fact, a pf does not need the tongue to move at all 18:23:28 <\oren\> well it's still a plosive frictive sequence in the same place of articulation isnt it 18:32:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:36:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:37:52 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:39:40 -!- heroux has joined. 18:41:21 -!- lynn has joined. 18:52:12 is there a way to get ''"" instead of ‘’“” in error messages without fucking up my locale completely? 18:53:04 LC_CTYPE=C messes up readline so that must be utf8 :\ 18:54:18 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 18:54:32 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4). 18:59:03 <\oren\> uhh, does tr '‘’“”' \'\'\"\" work? 18:59:35 <\oren\> `` echo ‘’“” | tr '‘’“”' \'\'\"\" 19:00:06 <\oren\> booo 19:00:08 ​"""""""""""" 19:00:19 <\oren\> WTF 19:00:30 gnu tr doesn't convert multi-byte sequences 19:00:40 for reasons 19:00:43 use sed for that 19:01:13 <\oren\> `` echo ‘’“” | sed 'y/‘’“”/'\'\'\"\"/ 19:01:16 ​''"" 19:01:50 <\oren\> so guess pipe your stderr thru that? 19:01:57 ew... 19:04:56 `` echo ‘’“” | tr ‘’“” abcd 19:04:57 ddcddddddddd 19:05:02 isn't that wrong? 19:06:42 ah no i see 19:09:07 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 19:09:31 There seem to be too many programs that incorrectly output non-ASCII characters even when the user doesn't specify that it should 19:13:07 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:43:14 -!- lynn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:43:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:56:05 -!- heroux has joined. 19:57:46 <\oren\> in KSP, jet engines work underwater 19:58:43 -!- p34k has joined. 19:58:52 Checks out. 20:01:05 -!- jaboja64 has joined. 20:04:20 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:05:54 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:08:37 copumpkin: so twitter is the secret mechanism for contacting you 20:08:49 <\oren\> I have a jet-propelled submarine 20:08:54 that doesn't sound very secret 20:09:33 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:09:58 -!- lleu has joined. 20:12:36 -!- lleu has quit (Excess Flood). 20:12:53 -!- lleu has joined. 20:23:51 shachaf: yep! 20:24:44 \oren\: does it work underwater? 20:30:13 i have some friends who built a pedal submarine 20:32:09 Phantom_Hoover: Casey & Andy (in the comic) built a wood-powered submarine 20:33:12 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:33:26 -!- heroux has joined. 20:34:27 is there a way to tell cpp to keep escaped newlines in macros? 20:34:53 izabera: I don't think so. that would screw up line numbers and not do anything else useful. 20:34:59 :\ 20:35:06 the newlines (outside of string literals) don't really do anything for the syntax 20:35:08 it would be useful to human readers... 20:35:38 wood-powered submarine => http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=66 20:36:04 Phantom_Hoover, did it float? 20:40:29 -!- adu has joined. 20:44:12 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:46:41 -!- heroux has joined. 20:52:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:57:20 -!- heroux has joined. 20:58:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:08:10 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:09:16 JavaScript has generator function and I made up the "monadic generators" with it too, do you like this? I made it as two monads 21:20:45 -!- heroux has joined. 21:21:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:24:30 `? zzo38 21:24:49 zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. 21:26:01 zzo38 is an enigma wrapped in a series of reverse engineering challenges 21:29:41 [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46407&oldid=46373 * Albedo * (+34) /* Beeswax */ beeswax examples added 21:29:48 I did write on the FAQ of AmigaMML about what I am not but that FAQ is now missing, I believe. 21:30:47 HackEgo is correct of course; but I am also not a doctor of mathematics and also am not a Japanese person, and so on. (However that FAQ also claims that I am not an enigma, contrary to you) 21:33:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:34:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:36:09 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:37:56 -!- heroux has joined. 21:41:52 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:48:08 -!- p34k has quit. 21:58:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 21:59:53 -!- Froox has joined. 21:59:56 -!- Opodeldoc_ has joined. 22:01:06 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 22:02:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:02:44 -!- XorSwap has joined. 22:03:43 -!- Opodeldoc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:04:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:07:51 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 22:15:42 -!- heroux has joined. 22:17:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:20:32 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:30:43 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:30:56 -!- HackEgo has joined. 22:33:09 -!- heroux has joined. 22:33:51 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 22:37:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:06 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 22:44:25 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:45:04 c11 generics are annoying 22:45:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:45:26 they would be easier to use if they supported some kind of fallthrough 22:45:44 also they would be easier to use if they accepted a trailing , 22:46:06 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:51:11 -!- deltab has joined. 22:51:51 -!- boily has joined. 22:52:05 @massages-loud 22:52:05 Taneb said 10h 23m 29s ago: NaN * 0 == NaN 22:52:24 Taneb: Tanelle. tdh. 22:53:02 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:58:00 Some kind of fallthrough like the "default:" association they have? 22:58:21 Oh, fallthrough. Never mind. 22:58:30 Well, that sounds somewhat unlikely to be useful. 22:58:48 (Misinterpreted that as some sort of a fallback, hence the default.) 23:00:36 fizzie: _Generic(x, int8_t: int16_t: ... signed expr, uint8_t: uint16_t: ..... unsigned expr ) 23:07:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:08:20 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:12:17 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 23:12:50 Just use more macros. 23:14:11 * izabera macroes the shit out of this code 23:14:46 I think the can't-have-compatible-types-in-two-or-more-branches restriction makes them hard to use with stdint types, because you can't know what's compatible and what's not. 23:15:39 i'm just playing with this but so far it seems to be working 23:15:46 -!- deltab has joined. 23:16:48 is there a way to see the generated code after generics have been resolved? 23:17:37 * izabera disappointed that cpp doesn't do this 23:17:44 It's not a preprocessor construct. 23:17:52 The preprocessor doesn't know about types, anyway. 23:18:05 that doesn't solve the problem <.< 23:18:08 I'm sure one of GCC's two hundred of so stages would be post-_Generic, but it might not be the sort of output you want. 23:18:17 (You can ask it to dump all.) 23:18:25 -!- adu has joined. 23:21:21 http://sprunge.us/hCLL like that 23:21:24 Phantom_Hoover, did it float? 23:21:33 preventing that was the main idea 23:21:45 ooh pretty 23:21:55 what 23:21:57 it's not pretty 23:21:59 I don't know why it has the same thing in and out the block. 23:22:08 gcc wtf 23:22:32 You can go a few steps further and then it's http://sprunge.us/QKRR 23:24:41 * izabera is a bit scared by char * * argv 23:24:55 http://sprunge.us/PagY that's reasonable 23:25:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:28:52 meanwhile on stackoverflow this is a hot network question https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/68290/menstruating-on-wedding-day 23:30:16 i don't know what's a mikvah and i'll sound racist but what fucked up religion is that 23:30:53 "The groom is careful not to touch the bride when putting the ring on her finger." 23:30:58 this sounds fucking hilarious 23:31:26 like i'm just imagining how you'd do that, with your fingers arched and just the tips in contact with the ringt 23:31:48 Maybe they've made a device to help with that. 23:31:50 Some sort of tongs. 23:31:54 wat 23:32:25 maybe it's like that scene in lotr where the ring falls on frodo's finger 23:32:42 jews are weird 23:32:54 meanwhile "The Yichud-room has another person present; usually hiding there in advance so as to not make this obvious." 23:33:15 don't mind me, i'm just a lamp, carry on with the consummation 23:33:24 :D 23:34:19 does it count as touching if you have gloves? 23:35:32 i mean it's the calcified 2500 year old sanitary customs that are the source of the weirdness here 23:35:57 two millennia of chanting about the dangers of the cooties will do that to you 23:36:37 circle circle dot dot you are now husband and wife. 23:37:47 -!- variable has joined. 23:39:57 i've found a better solution 23:40:02 "According to rabbinical law, a woman becomes a niddah when she is aware that blood has come from her womb," 23:40:08 blindfold the bride, problem solved 23:40:28 there are perhaps other ways to become aware of that as well 23:41:08 now we have fallen into the purview of your conundrums of philosophy 23:41:35 hmm, yes, let's get out of there 23:41:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:46:59 -!- heroux has joined. 23:47:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DECIDUOUS CHICKEN).