←2016-02-16 2016-02-17 2016-02-18→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:04 <ais523> I also suspect it wouldn't be capable of enchanting anything
00:00:36 <ais523> if it were an artifact enchantment - equipment, I guess it'd be possible to use the enchant ability to equip it to something as it was cast? not sure though
00:01:38 -!- earenndil has changed nick to Elronnd.
00:03:06 <shachaf> ais523: If it wasn't an Aura? Why would that be possible?
00:03:46 <ais523> the rules for something that's both aura and equipment (which is possible!) were changed recently
00:03:57 <ais523> to make equipping and enchanting basically synonyms
00:04:05 <ais523> in order to get around some rules issues
00:04:05 <shachaf> But only an aura can target.
00:04:18 <shachaf> Oh, you said both aura and equipment.
00:06:35 <ais523> yes
00:07:29 <shachaf> How is it possible?
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00:10:32 <ais523> liquimetal coating + bludgeon brawl + something that's naturally an Aura
00:11:29 <shachaf> Oh, but that only works when it's a permanent.
00:11:33 <shachaf> I thought you meant as a spell.
00:11:55 <shachaf> Or e.g. as a card you return from the graveyard.
00:12:26 <ais523> ah right, I don't think you can do that
00:12:40 <ais523> yet, at least
00:14:00 <shachaf> Are there any cards with effects like that?
00:15:20 <ais523> allowing cards to be cast as another card type? not as far as I know
00:15:36 <ais523> err, subtype, at least
00:15:40 <ais523> not sure if enchanted evening works on spells
00:15:43 <ais523> it works on most things
00:16:12 <shachaf> We should have an mtg card bot here.
00:17:04 <ais523> we should
00:17:07 <ais523> does Freenode have one?
00:17:18 <ais523> I'm not sure how you can tell, possibly by guessing the name
00:17:44 <shachaf> EFNet has one.
00:19:04 <shachaf> I've asked in #mtg
00:20:25 <Elronnd> /ne
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00:21:28 <hppavilion[1]> helronnd
00:22:06 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: How are you today?
00:22:27 <Elronnd> hey hppavilion[1]
00:22:28 <Elronnd> alright
00:22:35 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Excellent
00:22:39 <Elronnd> My feet are kinda messed up from dancing last week
00:22:42 <hppavilion[1]> Ouch
00:22:48 <Elronnd> I'm trying not to put too much weight on them
00:23:13 <hppavilion[1]> What would be a good, strange basis for a declarative language?
00:23:38 <Elronnd> I'm afraid I don't know what a "declarative language" is
00:23:50 <shachaf> ^prefixes
00:23:50 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
00:23:58 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Like Haskell or Prolog
00:24:06 <hppavilion[1]> As opposed to Python or C, which are imperative
00:24:58 <Elronnd> Haskell isn't high enough on my list of things to look at that I've looked at it yet
00:25:04 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Ah
00:25:26 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: The classic explanation is that in declarative programming, you specify /what/ to do instead of /how/ to do it
00:25:33 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Thue is declarative
00:25:38 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Brainfuck is imperative
00:25:47 <Elronnd> From what I've heard, it's really cool thougyhthough
00:26:16 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: It is
00:27:40 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Declarative languages are usually based on something mathematical- Haskell is λ-calculus, Prolog is formal logic, Thue is semi-thue systems.
00:28:00 <Elronnd> Ah, okay
00:28:04 <shachaf> The new colorless mana symbol is scow.
00:28:21 <coppro> `scow
00:28:23 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: scow: not found
00:28:58 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: So what I was asking is what would be an interesting thing to do for a declarative language
00:29:40 <Elronnd> Use math-style notation
00:30:07 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Perhaps
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00:32:00 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: I did think of a language based on the idea of a really complicated calculator
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00:32:55 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: stdout<<="Hello, world!"
00:37:48 <Elronnd> Realistically, in math, that would just be "Hello, world!"
00:37:57 <Elronnd> not in a calculator, though
00:38:58 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: I'm stuck on how to allow things like 99 bottles of beer on the wall without variables
00:39:18 <shachaf> The EFNet bot gives both cards and rules.
00:39:37 <shachaf> And can look up rules by keyword and so on.
00:39:45 <shachaf> But the code is not available.
00:40:06 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: recursion
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00:40:18 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: No functions are in the language
00:40:41 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: That's the strange part; a program in the language is just a big expression
00:40:57 <Elronnd> that's math for ya
00:41:07 <haily_> Hi
00:41:45 <ais523> `welcome haily_
00:41:46 <HackEgo> haily_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:42:44 <haily_> hi
00:42:47 <Elronnd> `relcome yaily_
00:42:50 <HackEgo> yaily_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:42:57 <haily_> My name is Haily?
00:43:05 <haily_> I m a nerd
00:43:19 <haily_> but now I go to retire
00:43:23 <haily_> cause Im old
00:43:36 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:43:54 <haily_> Mine Backbone looks like
00:44:09 <haily_> some bombs in Irakwar
00:44:25 <haily_> broken but never fall?
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00:48:28 <\oren\> `welcome elias1
00:48:30 <HackEgo> elias1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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01:12:20 <adu> hppavilion[1]: that's easy
01:13:05 <adu> hppavilion[1]: (map display-bottles (iota 99))
01:13:53 <ais523> (iota 99) is ((99 s) k)
01:14:07 <ais523> I don't want to mentally figure out what giving 99 s as an argument even does
01:14:59 <adu> ais523: does that return a list with 1 2 3 ...
01:15:19 <ais523> no, I'm misinterpreting Iota as the esolang (and its defining operation)
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01:15:32 <adu> (map display-bottles (list-reverse (iota 99)))
01:15:36 <ais523> and thus 99 as the church numeral (which would be the only sensible way to define it in esolang)
01:15:38 <adu> I totally got it wrong
01:15:40 <ais523> *in iota
01:15:52 <FireFly> (iota 99) is unsurprisingly ι99 in APL
01:15:52 <adu> http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#iota
01:16:15 <FireFly> except it's probably a custom iota character in APL, and not the greek one I used
01:16:46 <adu> ooooo or (iota 0 99 -1)
01:17:13 <FireFly> Don't you mean (iota 99 99 -1) ?
01:17:18 <adu> maybe
01:17:43 <adu> I've never used all three arguments before
01:18:05 <ais523> Underlambda has a "u" command
01:18:30 <ais523> if you give it an integer as an argument, it produces a list from 1, 2, etc., up to that integer (inclusive)
01:18:53 <ais523> it also works on non-integers, in which case its behaviour is defined but mostly bizarre
01:20:15 <FireFly> hmm
01:21:09 <ais523> for example, (~)u^ will append the length of a list, plus one, to that list
01:21:16 <ais523> causing the list to end with its new length
01:33:46 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk.
01:36:50 <hppavilion[1]> Is Ruler-and-SuperCompass construction any more powerful than normal ruler-and-compass?
01:37:12 <izabera> what's a supercompass?
01:37:31 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: It draws ellipses instead of circles
01:37:39 <hppavilion[1]> (well, circles are a subset of ellipses, but...)
01:37:48 <izabera> then no
01:38:22 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Proof?
01:39:08 <izabera> still algebraic, you don't ever get to pi
01:39:31 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
01:40:01 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: But perhaps you're able to move a circle with it or something, thus letting you trisect an angle?
01:40:36 <izabera> your specs are a bit vague
01:41:21 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: You can draw an ellipse given any two points representing its focci. The focci may, of course, be the same
01:42:07 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: It's not a a tool one could easily construct to /look/ like a compass, of course.
01:42:24 <izabera> what about moving things around?
01:43:22 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: That part I'm not sure about, but I just feel that it may be possible to use the ellipse to move a circle; I haven't formally tried it yet because I don't have any way to try it
01:43:35 <hppavilion[1]> I think I'll make a Tkinter-based application to try it out
01:43:40 <hppavilion[1]> (Or maybe Qt5)
01:43:47 <izabera> try geogebra
01:44:42 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbWvGzXUAAAy8MO.png GSUB at work!
01:50:50 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Actually, that seems like a pretty good idea...
01:50:57 <hppavilion[1]> A S-construction tool
01:51:03 <hppavilion[1]> For some set S
01:51:37 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. Folding-and-compass or Ruler-and-protractor
01:52:07 <hppavilion[1]> (protractor is restricted so you can only make angles. You use it to create angles of a given size)
01:52:25 <hppavilion[1]> (or something less stupid)
01:52:47 <ais523> you can trisect an angle with a ruler and a compass
01:52:51 <ais523> the reason is that the ruler has lines marked on it
01:52:57 <ais523> and even two marked lines is enough for the trisection to work
01:53:21 <ais523> (another method you can do with just the ruler and compass is to use them at the same time, using the compass to mark a length along the ruler; the proof that you can't regards doing this as cheating)
01:53:46 <ais523> err, s/ruler/straightedge/g in my most recent comment
01:54:02 <oerjan> <shachaf> Since some people use HackEgo in /msg, where the limit might be shorter. <-- istr HackEgo has an internal 350 limit before all that stuff is added on hth
01:54:16 <shachaf> oerjan: tdh
01:54:19 <shachaf> unexpectedly
01:59:30 <oerjan> `perl -e for ($i=0;$i<500;$i++) { print ($i%10), ; }
01:59:32 <HackEgo> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
02:00:05 <oerjan> yep, checks out
02:01:34 <izabera> the amazing power of perl
02:02:59 <izabera> `` printf %.s0123456789 {1..50}
02:03:00 <HackEgo> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
02:03:07 <izabera> what did i win
02:03:53 <ais523> izabera: I recently had to debug a program in an emergency, it was doing a series of parse tree transformations and I wanted to spot the point where they became incorrect
02:04:11 <izabera> ok
02:04:12 <ais523> it was dumping each stage but in a pretty sexp-like format (not actual sexps, but close)
02:04:25 <ais523> and trying to wade through all the parens was basically impossible
02:04:33 <ais523> so I wrote a Perl-oneliner to colourize matching parens to make it easier
02:04:42 <ais523> (first I checked the repos but there didn't seem to be anything there)
02:04:48 <izabera> neat
02:05:53 <izabera> and where is this program?
02:07:20 <ais523> in my bash history
02:07:20 <ais523> I can drag it out if you like
02:07:28 <ais523> perl -pe 's/[()]/$& eq "(" ? "\e[3".($x%6+1).($x++%12>5?";1":"")."m(\e[0m" : "\e[3".(--$x%6+1).($x%12>5?";1":"")."m)\e[0m"/ge'
02:07:52 <ais523> it's not very neat or readable because it was written in like 5 minutes in a hurry, I stopped writing it as soon as I had something that worked
02:07:54 <int-e> `` echo {,,}{,,}{,,}{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}
02:07:55 <HackEgo> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4
02:07:55 <ais523> for my purposes
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02:08:40 <int-e> `` echo {,,}{,,,}{,,,}{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9} | tr -d \
02:08:42 <HackEgo> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
02:08:52 <izabera> mixing escape sequences and perl makes for very esoteric programs
02:09:13 <izabera> `` printf %s {,,}{,,,}{,,,}{0..9}
02:09:15 <HackEgo> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
02:09:24 <int-e> izabera: thanks
02:12:10 <izabera> @bf ++++++++[>++++++>++++++<<-]>++[>.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.---------<-]
02:12:10 <lambdabot> 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234...
02:12:15 <izabera> oh come on lambdabot
02:12:24 <izabera> !bf ++++++++[>++++++>++++++<<-]>++[>.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.---------<-]
02:12:24 <EgoBot> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456
02:13:02 <izabera> does it print too many?
02:13:22 <ais523> since when did lambdabot do brainfuck?
02:13:46 <ais523> ^bf >,[>,]<[[<]>[.>]<]!0123456789
02:13:46 <fungot> 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456 ...
02:14:08 <izabera> that's very cheating and unfair
02:14:26 <ais523> I wasn't intending to cheat, more it was out of curiosity if I could find something that didn't hardcode the 0123456789 bit
02:14:37 <ais523> to avoid the non-general .+.+.+.+
02:14:43 <lambda-11235> ais523: It also does unlambda.
02:14:47 <ais523> I wonder if it'd be shorter if it didn't use stdin; probably not
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02:15:07 <ais523> (shorter than the +.+.+.+. version, I mean)
02:15:22 <izabera> oh i see, HackEgo was truncating it
02:15:47 <int-e> !bf ++++++++++[>+++++>+<<-]>--[>[<.+>>+<-]>[<<->+>-]<<]
02:15:48 <EgoBot> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456
02:16:14 <lambda-11235> Also D&D.
02:16:17 <ais523> int-e: wow
02:16:20 <izabera> o.o
02:16:21 <lambda-11235> @roll 2d0
02:16:21 <lambdabot> unexpected 'd': expecting digit, operator or end of input
02:16:30 <lambda-11235> @roll d20
02:16:30 <lambdabot> lambda-11235: 20
02:16:35 <Elronnd> til there's a bf interpreter
02:16:38 <izabera> i'll need a minute or two to understand how that works
02:16:46 <Elronnd> @roll 2d20
02:16:46 <lambdabot> Elronnd: 13+10 => 23
02:16:51 <ais523> it took me a while to understand how it works but I understand itn ow
02:17:08 <ais523> think of it like a Minsky machine, it makes things easier
02:17:13 <ais523> (note that all the loops are balanced)
02:17:57 <Elronnd> ais523: what took you a while to understand?
02:18:09 <ais523> Elronnd: why it was repeating in sets of 10
02:18:19 <int-e> izabera: it's an infinite loop, so cheating
02:18:27 <Elronnd> ais523: ah
02:18:31 <ais523> int-e: oh, I thought infinite was better
02:18:36 <ais523> mine's an infinite loop too
02:19:21 <int-e> ais523: but izabera's isn't, and spends 11 characters on that
02:19:37 <izabera> thanks for noticing <.<
02:19:43 <int-e> !bf ++++++++[>++++++<-]>++[.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.---------]
02:19:43 <EgoBot> 23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;23456789:;2345678
02:19:59 <ais523> I wasn't treating this as a golf competition, more a code elegance competition
02:20:04 <int-e> err, 13.
02:20:07 <int-e> !bf ++++++++[>++++++<-]>[.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.---------]
02:20:08 <EgoBot> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456
02:20:09 <ais523> also I'm translating int-e's BF program into PMMN to see what my PMMN optimizer makes of it
02:23:58 <izabera> what does it optimize?
02:24:01 <ais523> apparently it segfaults
02:24:12 <int-e> !bf ++++++++++[[>+++++>+>+<<<-]>-->[<.+>-]>]
02:24:12 <EgoBot> 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456
02:24:14 <ais523> izabera: a lot of things, it tries to eliminate loops for example
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02:24:30 <izabera> int-e: *that* will take a while o.o
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02:25:11 <oerjan> <ais523> since when did lambdabot do brainfuck? <-- since always?
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02:27:53 <int-e> More precisely, since september 2006
02:28:08 <ais523> http://sprunge.us/ghMc
02:28:34 <ais523> inc_by(0, 10); while (dec(0)) { inc_by(1, 5); inc(2); } dec(1); dec(1); while (dec(1)) { inc(1); while (dec(2)) { /* PMMN non-destructive output code, not in original */ while (dec(1)) { inc(9); inc(8); } while (dec(9)) { inc(1); } inc(8); output(8); inc(1); inc(3); } while (dec(3)) { dec(1); inc(2); } }
02:28:39 <ais523> that's the original program
02:29:00 <shachaf> oerjan: I was going to say that you of all people should know the answer to that.
02:29:04 <shachaf> But I was thinking of unlambda.
02:29:08 <ais523> hmm, it didn't optimize out a useless jump
02:29:24 <oerjan> <ais523> int-e: oh, I thought infinite was better <-- i only did finite because i vaguely recalled HackEgo might not handle infinite output without newlines.
02:29:48 <int-e> oerjan: actually lambdabot seems to have trouble with that
02:29:55 <int-e> @bf ++++++++++[[>+++++>+>+<<<-]>-->[<.+>-]>]
02:30:24 <ais523> it looks like it doesn't figure out yet that (1) never changes
02:30:40 <ais523> however, it has got the program down to the minimum number of loops without unrolling
02:31:41 <ais523> fwiw, the PMMN optimizer so far is available via "darcs clone http://nethack4.org/media/ssapmmn"
02:31:57 <ais523> nothing yet understands its output format though, you just have to read it by hand
02:32:16 <int-e> @bf ++++++++++[[>+++++>+>+<<<-]>-->[<.+>-]>.]
02:32:28 <int-e> hmm, no, newlines don't help.
02:32:36 <int-e> !bf ++++++++++[[>+++++>+>+<<<-]>-->[<.+>-]>.]
02:32:37 <EgoBot> 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789 \ 0123456789
02:32:41 <oerjan> <shachaf> But I was thinking of unlambda. <-- yep. although they didn't actually _tell_ me they'd used my code, so i'm not sure exactly when i discovered it.
02:33:27 <int-e> oerjan: 2006-03-15 Add the unlambda plugin
02:33:47 <oerjan> it's a bit weird since i'm pretty sure there were other unlambda interpreters in haskell when i wrote mine
02:34:31 <lambdabot> Plugin `bf' failed with: <<timeout>>
02:35:08 <int-e> I had one in 2000, but probably it wasn't public... since I really wanted to write one in C.
02:35:39 <oerjan> heh
02:36:00 <oerjan> by 2000 hadn't even learned haskell
02:36:04 <int-e> * history: * 13-10-2000: initial version, in Haskell * 14-10-2000: initial version in C
02:36:10 <int-e> good times
02:36:20 <oerjan> *+i
02:36:31 <oerjan> i think march 2006 was just before the end of my big internet break
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02:37:17 <int-e> anyway, sleep.
02:37:50 <oerjan> or maybe it was the year i did learn it. not before, anyway.
02:38:27 <oerjan> anyway, dishes
02:41:16 <izabera> `` bc <<< 2^1234-1 | tr -d \\n\\\\
02:41:19 <HackEgo> 29581122460809862906004469571610359078633968713537299223955620705065735079623892426105383724837805018644364775907095599312082089933038176093702721248284094494136211066544377518349572681192920386118201521832389207735598339319120892886765265599360248790311370854940266862452110061179427034023276609931709804888749380902312739825386061877261903500988327
02:41:21 <izabera> factor it
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02:42:23 <izabera> hackego cut off part of it
02:42:33 <ais523> (2^1234-1) = ((2^617)^2) - (1^2) = (2^617-1)(2^617+1)
02:42:49 <ais523> it probably factors further though
02:44:17 <izabera> it's unfair, my computer didn't know about that
02:44:42 <adu> oerjan: I printed out R5RS and Haskell98 in 2000 for my summer reading
02:44:48 <izabera> u always cheating >:(
02:45:17 <izabera> adu: how about harry potter
02:45:26 <adu> izabera: I've never read it
02:45:43 * izabera deletes adu from her friends on myspace
02:45:55 <adu> too busy reading user manuals
02:46:08 <ais523> izabera: this is the reason that mersenne primes always have a prime in the exponent
02:46:52 <ais523> come to think of it it /definitely/ factors further; one of (2^617-1), (2^617+1), and 2^617 has got to be divisible by 3
02:46:55 <ais523> and it's not going to be 2^617
02:47:42 <adu> wtf
02:48:05 <adu> 2^617 is not divisible by 3
02:48:26 <izabera> yes
02:48:31 <izabera> that's what he said
02:49:21 <adu> izabera: I haven't been on myspace in 15 years
02:49:33 <izabera> i've never been on myspace
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03:07:52 <oerjan> ais523: also, because 2 divides 1234
03:07:59 <oerjan> `factor 1234
03:08:02 <HackEgo> 1234: 2 617
03:08:17 <oerjan> i guess that's it. is 2^617-1 a prime?
03:08:48 <oerjan> 2^617+1 probably isn't.
03:09:03 <oerjan> > (2^617+1)`mod` 3
03:09:13 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
03:09:19 <oerjan> oh come on, it's not that big
03:09:21 <oerjan> > (2^617+1)`mod` 3
03:09:50 <oerjan> lambdabot must be overworked
03:10:34 <oerjan> 2 == -1 (mod 3), so 2^617 == -1 (mod 3). so it's 2^617+1.
03:12:22 <oerjan> 2^617-1 is not on the list of known mersenne primes, so it's presumably checked and found not.
03:12:37 <oerjan> @bot
03:12:37 <lambdabot> :)
03:12:43 <oerjan> huh
03:12:55 <oerjan> lambdabot never answered back on the last one
03:13:05 <oerjan> > (2^617-1)`mod` 5
03:13:20 <oerjan> > "hi"
03:13:27 <oerjan> @bot
03:13:37 <lambdabot> :)
03:13:50 <oerjan> there's nfw lambdabot should have trouble calculating that
03:14:01 <oerjan> :t (2^617-1)`mod` 5
03:14:19 <oerjan> and int-e went to bed
03:14:39 <oerjan> `` bc <<< 2^617-1
03:14:40 <HackEgo> 54388530464436950905813832350972787438550335255248068935623079751721\ \ 32452975126965649024023195947885249426733939164170397148972417563722\ \ 13155348458256985448390483221335442656288489603071
03:14:55 <oerjan> `` bc <<< 2^617-1 | tail -1
03:14:56 <HackEgo> 13155348458256985448390483221335442656288489603071
03:14:58 <lambda-11235> > (2^617-1)`mod` 5
03:15:17 <oerjan> ok not divisible by 5
03:15:36 <oerjan> > "hi"
03:15:50 <oerjan> it seems like the @run plugin is having trouble.
03:15:50 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
03:16:02 <oerjan> > "hi"
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03:16:59 <oerjan> `` bc <<< (2^617)%5
03:17:00 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: `bc <<< (2^617)%5'
03:17:04 <oerjan> damn
03:17:28 <adu> int-e: what is the date format MM-DD-YYYY?
03:18:06 <lambda-11235> oerjan: No good, even haskell's lambdabot is having trouble.
03:18:20 <lambda-11235> * #haskell
03:18:33 <oerjan> lambda-11235: um they're the same bot hth
03:18:56 <oerjan> `` bc <<< '(2^617)%5'
03:18:57 <HackEgo> 2
03:19:04 <oerjan> `` bc <<< 'scale'
03:19:05 <HackEgo> 0
03:19:07 <oerjan> good
03:19:11 <oerjan> `` bc <<< '(2^617)%7'
03:19:12 <HackEgo> 4
03:19:28 <oerjan> hm 7 is a mersenne prime so no point in checking it
03:19:32 <oerjan> `` bc <<< '(2^617)%11'
03:19:33 <HackEgo> 7
03:19:36 <oerjan> `` bc <<< '(2^617)%13'
03:19:37 <HackEgo> 6
03:19:43 <oerjan> `` bc <<< '(2^617)%17'
03:19:44 <HackEgo> 2
03:19:47 <oerjan> `` bc <<< '(2^617)%19'
03:19:47 <HackEgo> 13
03:20:24 <oerjan> gah loops in bash...
03:20:35 <oerjan> or bc, for that matter
03:21:22 <adu> `` bc << '2^2^2^2'
03:21:24 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: warning: here-document at line 4 delimited by end-of-file (wanted `2^2^2^2')
03:21:36 <lambda-11235> oerjan: Can't other IRC channels run their own instances of the bot?
03:21:39 <adu> `` bc <<< '2^2^2^2'
03:21:41 <HackEgo> 65536
03:22:18 <oerjan> lambda-11235: well sure, but not with the same nick on the same network
03:25:07 <oerjan> `` bc <<< 'for (i=23;;i++) { if (2^617%i==0) { print i; break; } }'
03:25:08 <HackEgo> 32
03:25:15 <oerjan> huh
03:25:24 <oerjan> oh duh
03:25:32 <oerjan> `` bc <<< 'for (i=23;;i++) { if (2^617%i==1) { print i; break; } }'
03:25:38 <HackEgo> 59233
03:25:45 <oerjan> yay
03:26:00 * adu gives oerjan a golden cookie
03:26:10 <oerjan> perhaps should have added 2 instead of incrementing
03:26:15 <oerjan> *munch*
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03:26:29 <madbr> hey
03:27:13 <adu> hey
03:27:32 <madbr> looking at some c++ compiler output to see how much operation chaining it has
03:27:44 <adu> chaining?
03:27:46 <madbr> looks like about 50% of ops could be chained
03:27:55 <adu> chained?
03:28:00 <madbr> yeah, basically a series of operations that update the same register
03:28:18 <madbr> example of chain:
03:28:18 <madbr> 079443AF subss xmm1,xmm3
03:28:18 <madbr> 079443B3 mulss xmm1,xmm4 ; chain
03:28:19 <madbr> 079443BE addss xmm1,xmm7 ; chain
03:28:19 <madbr> 079443C2 movss dword ptr [esi+2F4h],xmm1 ; chain
03:28:19 <madbr> 079443D2 mulss xmm1,xmm4 ; chain
03:28:50 <madbr> 5 consecutive operations involving the same
03:28:53 <madbr> register
03:30:08 <adu> I'm trying to think how that might apply to "belts"
03:30:47 <adu> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mill_CPU_Architecture#The_Belt.2C_a_pipelining_register_system
03:31:13 <madbr> afaik, the belt is essentially an improved VLIW
03:31:33 <madbr> it could do the chain but it has to mix it up with a few other calculations to run in parallel
03:33:16 <madbr> afaik the main problem that the belt fixes is that it makes it really easy to write 4+ values at the same time
03:33:26 <madbr> since they just end up on contiguous belt spaces
03:33:57 <adu> instead of that cpuid clusterf**k
03:34:13 <madbr> cpuid clusterfuck?
03:34:38 <\oren\> cpuid instruction returns data in like 4 registers, right?
03:35:03 <adu> \oren\: sometimes 2, I think, sometimes 4, iirc
03:35:15 <madbr> that can't be good
03:35:40 <adu> and they have different meaning depepding on the input
03:36:03 <\oren\> apparently 3; ebs, ecx and edx
03:36:22 <\oren\> oh, no
03:36:25 <adu> well, I still think its a clusterf**k
03:36:33 <\oren\> it really does depend on what's in EAX
03:36:57 <madbr> the belt basically fixes a sequence like add r4, r7, r6; sub r3, r11, r13; and r2, r21, r19; mul r5, r1, r20
03:37:09 <\oren\> the "processor brand string" is returned in EAX thru EDX
03:37:09 <madbr> which you typically find on VLIW cpus
03:38:12 <adu> cpuid is basically a vector of bits the size of the known universe
03:39:54 <madbr> it writes different parts of the cpuid to eax,ebx,ecx,edx depending on which part you ask for?
03:40:45 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> fungot, does the amplitude of gravity waves attenuate linearly or quadratically in distance? <-- *gravitational hth
03:40:45 <fungot> oerjan: if the power, as duly noted. i've been up on the mountain is symbolic of the eternal quest for wisdom and understanding beyond what you or the weepies as their ruler now.
03:40:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:40:57 <\oren\> yes, and if EAX = 0x00000004 then it writes an ASCII string to EAX:EBX:ECX:EDX
03:41:44 <\oren\> er, wait?
03:41:49 <adu> lolol
03:41:49 <\oren\> WTF it's even worse
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03:42:36 <madbr> so microcoded
03:44:44 <\oren\> I don't see why they couldn't just make users detect cpu by seeing which instructions work?
03:45:17 <adu> \oren\: like adding something to cflags like a "not implemented bit"?
03:45:27 <\oren\> yah
03:45:54 <\oren\> the bit turns on if an instruction is maformed
03:46:53 <adu> \oren\: that would only work on archs with constant size opcodes
03:46:56 <madbr> because doing an illegal instruction triggers an interrupt
03:47:09 <madbr> which easily eats hundreads of cycles
03:47:15 <adu> \oren\: x86 doesn't have that
03:47:50 <madbr> also flags are bad
03:48:02 <\oren\> or you could just make users execute instructions then catch the SIGILL?
03:48:42 <adu> \oren\: I like how you're thinking outside the box, but you need two paths either way
03:48:50 <madbr> oren : ok but then where does windows restrart the thread?
03:49:14 <adu> it might as well be represented by an instruction that gives you data to test against
03:49:19 <madbr> generally you want to avoid SIGILL as much as possible
03:49:26 <madbr> or exceptions in general
03:49:43 <madbr> exceptions are horrible and you should probably only have the page fault exception
03:50:07 <\oren\> right but I don't think an auxiliary function like CPUID needs to be fast
03:50:19 <madbr> I don't think cpuid is fast :D
03:51:36 <\oren\> so they could just try 50 instructions, catch 50 SIGILL's, and conclude this is a 80286
03:52:32 <adu> right, but then Intel can't brag with their "GenuineIntel" string
03:52:32 <oerjan> <shachaf> ais523: Could be another dwarf. <-- btw that made me realize that the high priestess doesn't have an accent...
03:52:42 <madbr> afaik that's not how you detect a 286
03:53:00 <madbr> early x86 cores have bugs and you can differentiate them that way
03:53:05 <\oren\> AHA, and now we see the REAL reason to use an ASCII string in some registers!
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03:53:29 <adu> bragging rights?
03:53:35 <oerjan> @tell shachaf <shachaf> ais523: Could be another dwarf. <-- btw that made me realize that the high priestess doesn't have an accent...
03:53:35 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:53:36 <\oren\> yup
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03:53:43 <shachaf> @messages-
03:53:43 <lambdabot> oerjan said 8s ago: <shachaf> ais523: Could be another dwarf. <-- btw that made me realize that the high priestess doesn't have an accent...
03:53:50 <\oren\> bloody marketeers
03:54:41 <shachaf> oerjan: obviously a vampire in disguise hth
03:55:18 <adu> hppavilion[1]!
03:55:23 <hppavilion[1]> hadu
03:55:29 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I'm working on λ-nomic
03:55:43 <hppavilion[1]> I've almost got the rules working :)
03:55:50 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I'm learning supervisord
03:55:55 <oerjan> shachaf: EEK
03:56:05 <\oren\> I have an idiotic idea!
03:56:27 <shachaf> oerjan: i guess a vampire pretending to be human would have a twisty speech bubble
03:56:30 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Never heard of it
03:56:41 <\oren\> what if the OS, on older processors, catched SIGILL, read the instruction in question, and emulated it?
03:56:48 <adu> hppavilion[1]: it's a deamon container
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03:56:59 <hppavilion[1]> adu: OK?
03:58:17 <\oren\> this would allow an OS to run programs for later processors (at terrible speed, but still)
03:59:11 <shachaf> oerjan: by human i mean not undead sorry for speciesism
03:59:46 <madbr> \oren\ : I think that's used to emulate an fpu on some systems
04:00:24 <madbr> actually some fpu ops trigger a software fallback I think
04:00:38 <madbr> generally stuff like multiplying by infinity and so forth
04:01:46 <madbr> note: this is bad
04:01:47 <oerjan> shachaf: hm i had never thought malack's twistiness was more than just reptilianness
04:02:03 <shachaf> oerjan: well, the black undead speech bubbles weren't twisted
04:02:41 <shachaf> so i thought the white bubbles were twisted as a result of hiding his true colors
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04:04:31 <madbr> \oren\ : also, generally all cpu features are speed features so it kindof misses the point :D
04:05:18 <oerjan> hm indeed the reptilians in the arena had normal bubbles
04:07:58 <oerjan> i guess i'm just rationalizing the fact i didn't guess malack was a vampire until he revealed it completely.
04:09:14 <madbr> I came up with a strange musical instrument classification
04:13:09 <madbr> I: easy to build instruments that everybody has: flutes, drums, hand percussions
04:13:13 <madbr> II: eurasian instruments that spread both west and east: shawms, zithers, lutes, bowed lutes
04:13:20 <madbr> III: instruments that more or less everybody has but are only developed in some regions: trumpets, harps, xylophones, bells, cymbals
04:13:25 <madbr> IV: regional instruments: bagpipes, free reeds, organs, gongs, misc chromatic percussion, electronic instruments
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04:15:16 <lambda-11235> madbr: Where would panpipes fit in there?
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04:15:24 <madbr> flutes
04:16:31 <shachaf> oerjan: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?219611-Malack-s-speech-bubble has a bunch of other examples of that sort of bubble
04:19:03 <madbr> lambda-11235 : actually it could be a category separate from flutes
04:19:25 <madbr> but it would still be in group I or III (probably III) since it evolved in multiple places
04:22:20 <madbr> also considering folding the bagpipes into the shawm group
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05:03:18 <oerjan> shachaf: last comment: "When in doubt use Occam's Razor. Its certainly more plausible for Malack to have poor health than for Malack to be a secret vampire with magical sun-block powers."
05:03:39 <oerjan> i think occam's razor needs a bit sharpening, there
05:07:19 <shachaf> oerjan: that was p. perceptive of Eigenclass
05:07:56 <shachaf> even Eigenclass didn't notice the spelling "bloodwart", though
05:08:28 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, my sister posted in that thread
05:08:44 <oerjan> ooh
05:12:54 <quintopia> helloerjan
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05:26:03 <oerjan> @tell ais523 0 s k x y = x, 1 s k x y = y, (n+m) s k x y = n s k (m s k x y) (m s k y (x y)) i think
05:26:11 <oerjan> argh
05:26:20 <oerjan> @bot
05:26:22 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
05:26:23 <lambdabot> :)
05:28:13 <shachaf> oerjan: the bot will get bad habits if you botsnack before the job is done
05:28:31 <oerjan> good point
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06:03:34 <hppavilion[1]> adu:
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06:04:09 <hppavilion[1]> Just for testing purposes
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06:04:59 <hppavilion[1]> adu: It's not complete, of course, it's really just a primitive environment for testing
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06:07:31 <adu> omg, polling is the worst
06:07:43 <adu> you should use websockets
06:08:16 <adu> or, if you want to really bring out the buzz words, HTTP/2
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06:59:12 <izabera> ok so i have an idea for a kernel thing
06:59:40 <izabera> basically you can specify a set of environment variables
06:59:45 <izabera> somehow
07:00:01 <izabera> not sure what's the best way, maybe the kernel command line, maybe somewhere in /proc
07:00:08 <izabera> and every other variable is removed
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07:01:15 <izabera> so you can still specify TERM and COLUMNS and LINES, and you avoid problems like shellshock and all the mess with PROGRAMNAME_OPTIONS like grep or ls or whatever
07:01:19 <hppavilion[1]> @tell adu Polling is bad, but it works
07:01:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:05:40 <hppavilion[1]> @tell adu It's just a prototype, keep in mind
07:05:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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07:12:02 <b_jonas> “<\oren\> I don't see why they couldn't just make users detect cpu by seeing which instructions work?” – that was the old method, but the problem with it is that it breaks horribly in virtualized CPUs with hot migration, plus also instructions that are declared NOPs on old CPUs but do some sort of optimization on new CPUs.
07:12:27 <b_jonas> \oren\: but some old features still have to be checked that way
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07:12:45 <b_jonas> luckily none on x86_64, because those features are guaranteed to work on x86_64
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07:17:51 <b_jonas> shachaf, oerjan: as for speech bubbles, (1) the bugs, which shouldn't be able to breathe, have normal speech bubbles, and (2) the Giant said something that basically implies that you can't really get much info from speech bubbles because people can change them or whatever
07:18:34 <b_jonas> http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14733452
07:21:06 <b_jonas> “last comment: "When in doubt use Occam's Razor. Its certainly more plausible for Malack to have poor health than for Malack to be a secret vampire with magical sun-block powers."” – that heuristic has some base: Professor Snape turned out to be not secretly a vampire in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, despite that the Half-Blood Prince confirms that vampires really exist in the HP world
07:21:30 <b_jonas> `? uncyclopedia
07:21:39 <HackEgo> uncyclopedia? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
07:21:47 <b_jonas> `? wisdom
07:21:49 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
07:24:01 <b_jonas> `learn Uncyclopedia is always factually accurate, except for uh, that one entry? it started with like, an AA? you can probably find it in http://unicyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/AA
07:24:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'uncyclopedia': Uncyclopedia is always factually accurate, except for uh, that one entry? it started with like, an AA? you can probably find it in http://unicyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/AA
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07:36:14 <hppavilion[1]> x^(ax^2+bx+c)
07:36:22 <izabera> = 42
07:37:17 <hppavilion[1]> x^x
07:37:18 <izabera> b_jonas: unicyclopedia or uncyclopedia?
07:37:24 <izabera> hppavilion[1]: no output
07:37:26 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: I'm compiling ALL the weird graphs
07:38:30 <izabera> `cat wisdom/uncyclopedia
07:38:32 <HackEgo> Uncyclopedia is always factually accurate, except for uh, that one entry? it started with like, an AA? you can probably find it in http://unicyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/AA
07:38:43 <izabera> `` sed -i s/unicy/uncy/ wisdom/uncyclopedia
07:38:47 <HackEgo> No output.
07:38:57 <izabera> `? uncyclopedia
07:38:59 <HackEgo> Uncyclopedia is always factually accurate, except for uh, that one entry? it started with like, an AA? you can probably find it in http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/AA
07:39:03 <hppavilion[1]> x^x^x^x^x^x^x
07:39:10 <izabera> = 123456789
07:39:27 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: What other weird graphs are there?
07:39:39 <izabera> x+1
07:39:59 <shachaf> `learn oerjan is always factually accurate, except for sentences that begin with AA
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07:43:13 <hppavilion[1]> y=|x|^x is amaaaaaaaaazing
07:43:20 <hppavilion[1]> I think we need equations.txt
07:43:29 <hppavilion[1]> `touch equations
07:43:31 <HackEgo> No output.
07:43:44 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo "x^x" >> equations
07:43:47 <HackEgo> No output.
07:43:52 <hppavilion[1]> `` cat equations
07:43:53 <HackEgo> x^x
07:44:02 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo "|x|^x" >> equations
07:44:05 <HackEgo> No output.
07:44:10 <hppavilion[1]> `cat equations
07:44:11 <HackEgo> x^x \ |x|^x
07:53:16 <hppavilion[1]> I just realized
07:53:28 <hppavilion[1]> |x|^x has two asymptotes
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08:15:36 <zgrep> hppavilion[1]: What are they?
08:16:07 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: I was wrong, according to ##math
08:16:16 <zgrep> Well, I only see one...
08:16:17 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: But it does have 1 at y=0
08:16:30 <zgrep> Yep, that's the one I see...
08:16:37 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: I thought the x>0 part was congruent with the x<0 part
08:16:47 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: It made sense at the time
08:17:10 <zgrep> Heh. Okay.
08:19:05 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: I think I found a good random number generator
08:19:09 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Probably not though
08:19:35 * zgrep imagines searching for random number generators hiding out in jungles and forests...
08:20:34 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: sin(x)+2*sin(x/2)+3*sin(x/3)+4*sin(x/4)...
08:20:44 <hppavilion[1]> Probably not good at the "random" part, but it sure is erratic
08:21:45 <hppavilion[1]> Then mix a cos() in at the primes xD
08:23:51 <zgrep> Doesn't look that erratic to me...
08:24:04 <zgrep> ...probably because I'm doing something wrong.
08:24:41 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: It repeats itself, yes, but it's pretty crazy
08:24:58 <zgrep> Hm... how so?
08:26:15 <hppavilion[1]> x^sin(x)
08:26:27 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: It just is
08:26:32 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: You have to see it to understand
08:26:54 <zgrep> I'm trying to see it, but as I said, I'm probably doing something wrong. Care to show me?
08:27:03 <zgrep> (I'm trying to literally see it, not figuratively)
08:28:16 <zgrep> I do see x^sin(x) though. Looks... interesting.
08:29:20 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: It does
08:29:40 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: I was wondering for a while if such a function like that existed- one where the sine's amplitude grows over time
08:30:46 <zgrep> sin^cos looks interesting too, though completely irrelevant.
08:31:12 <zgrep> Oh, not so interesting.
08:31:28 <zgrep> Though kind-of interesting.
08:33:28 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Reminds me of tan
08:34:15 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose it should've been obvious x sin(x) would produce the growing sine function
08:34:19 <zgrep> Looks different depending on what I use to graph it. ._.
08:34:24 <zgrep> (s^c, I mean)
08:36:05 <zgrep> Must've mis-typed something, now everything's agreeing it seems.
08:36:47 * zgrep leaves, because zgrep has to sleep at some point today, probably
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08:50:05 <b_jonas> izabera: yes
08:50:20 <b_jonas> hey! don't do that
08:50:26 <b_jonas> I wrote unicyclopedia deliberately
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08:50:38 <b_jonas> `? uncyclopedia
08:50:42 <HackEgo> Uncyclopedia is always factually accurate, except for uh, that one entry? it started with like, an AA? you can probably find it in http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/AA
08:51:30 <b_jonas> ``` perlr -i -pe 's"un(cyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki)"uni$1" and warn "replace ok"' wisdom/uncyclopedia
08:51:32 <HackEgo> bash: perlr: command not found
08:51:36 <b_jonas> ``` perl -i -pe 's"un(cyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki)"uni$1" and warn "replace ok"' wisdom/uncyclopedia
08:51:38 <HackEgo> replace ok at -e line 1, <> line 1.
08:51:43 <b_jonas> `? uncyclopedia
08:51:45 <HackEgo> Uncyclopedia is always factually accurate, except for uh, that one entry? it started with like, an AA? you can probably find it in http://unicyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/AA
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08:55:37 <b_jonas> except the url is wrong
08:56:27 <b_jonas> Unicyclopedia is actually at https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_Unicyclopedia
08:57:06 <b_jonas> ``` perl -i -pe 's"http://\S+"https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/The_Unicyclopedia" and warn "replace ok"' wisdom/uncyclopedia
08:57:08 <HackEgo> replace ok at -e line 1, <> line 1.
08:57:17 <b_jonas> `? uncyclopedia
08:57:18 <HackEgo> Uncyclopedia is always factually accurate, except for uh, that one entry? it started with like, an AA? you can probably find it in https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/The_Unicyclopedia
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11:49:12 <boily> `wisdom
11:49:28 <HackEgo> hypo/Hypo is potamus.
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13:27:34 <mroman> fnurd
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13:43:31 <int-e> @uptime
13:43:31 <lambdabot> uptime: 3h 37m 57s, longest uptime: 1m 12d 14h 14m 14s
13:43:35 <int-e> well so much for that
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14:26:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pandora]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46409&oldid=45992 * LegionMammal978 * (+69) /* External resources */
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16:50:31 <izabera> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/3191/write-the-fastest-fibonacci
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17:12:08 <izabera> how do i convert from latex to .doc ?
17:12:12 <izabera> :\
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17:40:23 <int-e> boo the output file contains a newline
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17:57:25 <fizzie> izabera: Convert to a .png and include it in the .doc.
17:59:46 <izabera> :)
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18:04:28 <int-e> the funny thing is that using 'print' (which uses Show, so one would expect an intermediate Char list) is faster than going through a lazy bytestring...
18:15:08 <int-e> Okay, I got a tiny speedup by using Data.ByteString.Builder instead of plain print.
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18:21:52 <^v> spreading the word: update your glibc
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18:28:00 <izabera> what happened
18:29:12 <Opodeldoc> izabera: https://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.com/2016/02/cve-2015-7547-glibc-getaddrinfo-stack.html
18:29:20 <izabera> thanks
18:30:13 <int-e> an instance of perililisation...
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20:13:30 <earendel> >>((4/3)/(16:9))
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20:34:18 <olsner> int-e: print consumes the list directly, so pretty much only one cons (if even any at all) would be alive at any point
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20:35:06 <zzo38> How many use Heirloom Mailx as their email client? It is what I am using now
20:37:26 <int-e> olsner: I know, but the cons cells are allocated (integerToString is not defined in terms of "build", so there's no fusion)... so I still find it impressive.
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20:55:39 <b_jonas> hello
20:55:47 <izabera> `welcome b_jonas
20:55:58 <b_jonas> `wisdom
20:56:04 <HackEgo> b_jonas: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:56:05 <HackEgo> hyperbolic geometry/Hyperbolic Geometry is geometry that is exaggerated to the point of absurdity.
20:56:20 <b_jonas> fungot, what theme are on you right now?
20:56:53 <izabera> a silent theme
20:57:27 <hppavilion[1]> Well GTMO is an interesting place
20:57:52 <hppavilion[1]> Some parts are awful, other parts are so good that a prisoner opted to stay instead of being transferred out
21:00:42 <b_jonas> zzo38: I had a crazy idea for a M:tG card. Name: Shadows of Ills to Come | MC: 1B | Type: Sorcery | Abi: All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. When Shadows of Ills to Come resolves, end this power- and toughness-changing effect.
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21:13:55 <int-e> Oh, hmm, I guess that's cheap. And you can play instants with the -1/-1 still in effect.
21:15:11 <int-e> (if I understand correctly)
21:16:20 <shachaf> Why is it "until end of turn"?
21:16:52 <int-e> someone might stifle the triggered ability?
21:16:52 <shachaf> What about an enchantment that has a trigger when it enters the battlefield?
21:17:12 <shachaf> Seems like a more conventional way to get a similar effect.
21:18:10 <b_jonas> shachaf: If the trigger is not resolved, due to Stifle or Time Stop etc, then the card would create crazy memory issues where you would have to remember the locked in set of creatures. The "until end of turn" might not be a perfect solution, and certainly removes some of the elegance, but I couldn't figure out anything better.
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21:19:15 <b_jonas> int-e: why do you think it's cheap? I compare the cost to Nausea or Shrivel, and I don't think this is much more powerful.
21:19:22 <b_jonas> It can be better or worse than those.
21:19:51 <b_jonas> Yes, you can play instants with the -1/-1 still in effect, yes.
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21:21:05 <shachaf> I guess the thing I'm describing is like Evoke.
21:21:19 <b_jonas> shachaf: You could make it an enchantment, but it would probably have to destroy itself imediately, which is confusing for an enchantment, plus the text would be longer, even if you don't want lock-in. I don't see what the advantage would be, unless you put it to a more expensive enchantment that does something else too.
21:21:59 <shachaf> b_jonas: Well, a permanent seems simpler than a sorcery's effect.
21:22:14 <int-e> b_jonas: I find those cards cheap as well. I'm sure there are better ones around...
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21:22:39 <b_jonas> shachaf: I don't think so, since for an enchantment it would be strange to only do something the turn it etb, and if it was a creature, it would likely have to cost more, unless it had some ugly drawback.
21:23:08 <int-e> I'm trying to stay away from M:tG for my own good :P
21:23:21 <shachaf> Name: Something | MC: | Type: Enchantment | Abi: All creates have -1/-1 / Evoke 1B
21:23:25 <shachaf> creatures
21:23:29 <b_jonas> shachaf: even if it was just 0/1 (unusual for black) and said "other creatures" so it doesn't kill itself immediately, {1B} would likely be cheap for it.
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21:24:14 <b_jonas> shachaf: um, that can stay on the battlefield indefinitely, for many turns. you definitely can't cost that at 1B, and it would probably be too cheap even for 1BB
21:24:31 <shachaf> I guess stifle effects are more common than I think.
21:24:59 <b_jonas> shachaf: I think there are three or four cards with stifle effects, and two or three with time stop effects
21:25:16 <b_jonas> shachaf: they aren't common, but the time stop effects are new, so there will likely be more
21:25:48 <b_jonas> I _think_ they're all on rare or higher rarity cards
21:26:44 <b_jonas> Let me see. There are three cards with "end the turn", but one is a sorcery so it needs an extra card to cast while the trigger is on the stack;
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21:27:35 <b_jonas> and it seems there are three cards with a stifle effect.
21:28:01 <zzo38> b_jonas: O, I like that I have thought of stuff like that too actually, and also shachaf's way I have thought of too
21:28:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: great
21:29:05 <b_jonas> I had to look up two things before I templated this by the way. One was the exact template of Nausea. Guess what the other was.
21:29:25 <zzo38> I have now figured out how to override scrollbars in Firefox; you have to use Stylish and AGENT_SHEET and an extension called "User Chrome" that makes a chrome:// space for the file, and you also have to specify the -moz-binding CSS rule for the scrollbar as important.
21:29:53 <zzo38> (If you use userChrome.css instead and don't set as important, then only the sidebar is affected and not anything else; I don't know why)
21:31:14 <zzo38> Using this it would be possible to override other user interface elements too
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21:34:27 <b_jonas> There's one other possibility I thought of that would avoid the "until end of turn" thing, but I prefer this method. The text box could simply say “All creatures get -1/-1 until the beginning of the next combat.” without any triggered stuff.
21:35:02 <b_jonas> But that one is ugly, it can act throughout some of the next turn.
21:35:40 <b_jonas> At that point you'd almost certainly not be able to print it at common, since the lock-in rule is much more relevant.
21:36:03 <b_jonas> Mind you, even the way I prefer, you probably wouldn't print it at common.
21:36:12 <b_jonas> The trigger alone is confusing enough.
21:38:32 <zzo38> I think it is not confusing
21:39:10 <zzo38> However in my opinion that nevertheless should not determine the rarity of the card. Rarity should be determined by the effect on Limited
21:39:17 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, but you're more familiar with the rules than most people, and write REALLY crazy card ideas, no offense
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21:39:50 <int-e> normal people will wonder whether there 1/1 creature is now dead...
21:40:01 <shachaf> b_jonas: I don't know what the other thing you looked up was.
21:40:04 <b_jonas> zzo38: and rarity is determined by multiple factors, but complexity is one of them, and a too complex card would cause the problem that it would make Limited more confusing, especially as decks usually have more different and diverse cards in Limited than in most Constructed formats
21:40:23 <shachaf> b_jonas: Is there another card with "When ... resolves"?
21:40:36 <b_jonas> zzo38: and you have to make decks quickly, so having lots of confusing cards in the card pool hurts more than in Constructed usually
21:40:44 <int-e> experienced players will wonder in which order triggers of creatures that die from the -1/-1 and the trigger of the spell resolving go on the stack.
21:41:09 <b_jonas> shachaf: I haven't checked, but IMO no. "resolves" is mentioned a lot in reminder texts though.
21:41:10 <zzo38> Of course the effect of the gameplay in Limited is one thing, however it also depends on what set it belongs to. Rarity may be different per set too.
21:41:42 <zzo38> But in general, that effect seems it would not ruin the game much at common so it should be OK at common
21:41:44 <shachaf> b_jonas: But never as a trigger, right? "As it resolves" is different from "when it resolves".
21:42:03 <int-e> . o O ( resolve target spell )
21:42:11 <b_jonas> int-e: good observation. that probably should be mentioned in the set FAQ / release notes, if this was in a set
21:44:29 <b_jonas> int-e: the answer is that first the active player (who is likely the player who cast Shadows) puts all triggers to the stack in the order he wants (these include the Shadow trigger and possibly any triggers he controls, such as triggers from his own creatures dying), then the non-active player puts triggers onto the stack
21:44:40 <b_jonas> shachaf: yes, as far as I know it's never a trigger
21:45:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, the rarity can depend on the set, and obviously you have to consider "gameplay" in the more broad sense (not only during the game proper as defined by the Comp Rules). My original version _could_ be ok in common, but I see it rather as an uncommon.
21:46:25 <zzo38> Yes, uncommon might be better, although I think it depends on the other cards in the set, what the rarity should be
21:46:36 <b_jonas> zzo38: Mostly because if you wanted a common, you'd just reprint Shrivel instead.
21:46:47 <zzo38> (That is why my own custom cards have no rarities assigned)
21:46:58 <b_jonas> Right.
21:48:00 <shachaf> They have to rewrite all the cards that give you colorless mana.
21:48:03 <shachaf> What a scow.
21:48:03 <b_jonas> Solution: the other thing I had to look up for templating this card was whether "to" is usually capitalized in card names.
21:48:13 <b_jonas> shachaf: they have already rewritten all of them.
21:48:23 <b_jonas> shachaf: the Oracle already contains the new text.
21:48:26 <shachaf> Yes, but now they have to reprint all of them.
21:48:32 <b_jonas> Um... no
21:48:39 <b_jonas> they don't have to reprint cards just for an oracle change
21:48:41 <zzo38> shachaf: They don't *have* to; it still works in the other way too
21:48:45 <b_jonas> and many of them will likely never be reprinted
21:48:56 <zzo38> Even if it says "Add {1} to your mana pool", it still works.
21:49:25 <shachaf> Nope, I refuse to play with cards that have the wrong text.
21:49:28 <zzo38> (Rule 106.10 causes it to work)
21:49:49 <zzo38> Therefore I believe they should not have to change it.
21:50:16 <b_jonas> Yep, the old Oracle text still works, supported by the rules, mostly because of Elemental Resonance and a very few other cards.
21:50:21 <shachaf> Oh, I didn't know about rule 106.10.
21:50:45 <b_jonas> shachaf: do you really only have such new cards? I mean, a LOT of the old cards have their oracle text changed incompatibly. Many of my cards are affected.
21:51:01 <shachaf> No. I didn't actually mean what I said.
21:51:24 <b_jonas> Even the ones that aren't basic lands – it's cheap to get new basic lands, unlike new versions of many old cards.
21:51:50 <shachaf> It's true that I only have relatively new (Innistrad and onward) cards.
21:51:56 <shachaf> But lots of them have had their text changed.
21:52:33 <b_jonas> I usually don't care if the text is changed. There are a few cases where I care, because the change is either confusing, or makes the card worse than it used to be, but those cases are very rare.
21:52:46 <b_jonas> I even have one textless card.
21:52:59 <b_jonas> (That is, textless version of a card that does have an ability.)
21:53:06 <shachaf> Is it a basic land?
21:53:08 <b_jonas> no
21:53:16 <b_jonas> A full-art Tidings
21:53:23 <b_jonas> IIRC
21:53:29 <b_jonas> Hmm, I'd have to check this
21:53:32 <shachaf> TG
21:53:46 <shachaf> Tidings costs 5? It should cost {U} and be an instant.
21:54:03 * b_jonas gets his box of blue
21:54:06 <shachaf> Maybe {UU} to make it balanced.
21:54:12 <zzo38> My opinion is textless card should not be allowed
21:54:23 <b_jonas> Nope, this is a box of black cards, wrong box.
21:54:39 <b_jonas> shachaf: now you're joking
21:54:47 <b_jonas> shachaf: that would be like an Ancestral Super-Recall.
21:57:07 <b_jonas> I remembered right, it's Tidings. I have three from 9ED, and one textless.
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21:59:20 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't have a problem with them. Textless is actually _better_ than the tons of old cards, because for textless, you know you have to look the oracle version of the text up, whereas for the tons of old cards I have, a third of which have changed the text in a rules-significant way, you never know when you have to look up the correct text.
21:59:44 <shachaf> b_jonas: Well, you can always pretend a card is textless.
21:59:57 <shachaf> So it seems odd to call it better.
22:00:22 <b_jonas> zzo38: And even if they can be careful with new cards to try to print them such that their text likely doesn't have to change much in the future, for old cards, the damage is already done, and they can't just make all the old cards (ones I've already paid for) unusable.
22:00:44 <b_jonas> At least not most of them. A very few do get such errata that they become much worse than they used to be, but most don't.
22:00:50 <b_jonas> (A few become better.)
22:02:11 <b_jonas> The one that stings me the most is Daru Stinger by the way, but that one they actually errataed _back_ so it says the same as is printed on it, but it's worse than it was when I bought the playset.
22:02:31 <b_jonas> But that's really an exceptional case.
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22:03:09 <b_jonas> My Scryb Sprites fly as well as ever.
22:03:10 <shachaf> b_jonas: Errataed back?
22:03:26 <zzo38> No you should write on the card what is the correct current text
22:03:26 <b_jonas> shachaf: printed as a Soldier, but it used to be a Human Soldier for a long time.
22:03:56 <shachaf> Oh, I was trying to figure out how the rules text would have changed.
22:04:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: what if that text changes again after I wrote it on? I've owned my cards for lots of years, it has happened many times.
22:04:28 <shachaf> b_jonas: Write it on the sleeve.
22:05:49 <b_jonas> shachaf: I don't have every card permanently sleeved. That would be a bad idea, because the sleeves would wear unevenly, so the cards I use more often would be distinguishable in the deck. I'd have to replace the sleeves VERY often, way more often than now when I sleeve only decks.
22:05:49 <zzo38> If it is clear what it is meaning and the change doesn't change functions then you don't have to write the new text otherwise you do have to write the new text
22:06:22 <b_jonas> zzo38: well sure, I don't have to change the reminder text of flying every time they change it
22:06:41 <b_jonas> but still
22:06:57 <b_jonas> even if it's just functional changes, there's a lot of cards that have changed, since I own many old cards
22:07:33 <shachaf> I own too many cards.
22:07:33 <zzo38> Yes
22:07:40 <shachaf> I never even use them.
22:07:54 <b_jonas> Oh sure, I have lots of cards I never use.
22:08:10 <zzo38> I would make the game it allow proxies, which one of the thing this can do is part of the avoid this problem
22:08:20 <shachaf> I should've sold them when they were valuable (in Standard).
22:08:29 <shachaf> Probably not worth the hassle.
22:08:39 <shachaf> But now they're not even worth much.
22:08:50 <b_jonas> shachaf: were they worth much back then?
22:09:27 <shachaf> I have Sphinx's Revelation, foil Elspeth, Sun's Champion, things like that.
22:09:47 <b_jonas> which Elspeth?
22:09:55 <shachaf> Elspeth, Sun's Champion
22:10:16 <shachaf> I think it was ~$50 at the time.
22:10:46 <shachaf> I might be wrong.
22:10:47 <b_jonas> Sphinx's Revelation?
22:10:58 <shachaf> Foil Elspeth
22:11:06 <b_jonas> ah, duh, Elspeth, Sun's Champion is one card
22:11:15 <b_jonas> I stopped reading at the comma
22:12:00 <b_jonas> I didn't follow Theros enough to realize that's the newest card's name (I thought of Elspeth, Knight-Errant)
22:12:20 <b_jonas> I see
22:12:38 <shachaf> Several copies of Garruk, Caller of Beasts, some Stormbreath Dragons. I don't actually know what I have.
22:12:38 <b_jonas> well, if you had more such expensive cards, they might have been worth something
22:13:03 <b_jonas> I don't actually have expensive cards. Only lots of cheap ones.
22:13:22 <shachaf> I played with coworkers.
22:19:58 <shachaf> We only played with cards from packs that we opened.
22:21:31 <b_jonas> shachaf: do you have older cards too? Like, older than Mirroding Beseiged; how many older than Onslaught?
22:22:19 <shachaf> No, they started playing in Innistrad.
22:22:25 <shachaf> I mostly played RTR onward.
22:22:43 <b_jonas> shachaf: I see
22:25:51 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: sin(x)+2*sin(x/2)+3*sin(x/3)+4*sin(x/4)... <-- i think that series doesn't converge for any real value other than x=0 (and if you mean that your generator is something other than the series limit for x=1,2,... then stop abusing notation hth
22:25:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:26:40 <shachaf> oerjan: are you going to close that parenthesis twh
22:26:58 <zgrep> oerjan: Indeed. At least, 'tis what Mathematica told me. And unfortunately mathematics is all about abusing notation. :P
22:27:11 <zgrep> And other stuff like logical reasoning, but also notation.
22:27:14 <int-e> even sin(x) + sin(x/2) + sin(x/3) + ... would diverge except for x = 0.
22:27:32 <shachaf> oerjan: do you play magic: the gathering twh
22:27:33 <zgrep> shachaf: I guess not, but I shall.)
22:28:35 <b_jonas> `wisdom
22:28:47 <HackEgo> bø/Bø is not just one, but _two_ municipalities in Norway. And not just three, but at least _four_ farms. Ah ah ah ah ah!
22:28:50 <b_jonas> `wisdom
22:28:51 <HackEgo> ngram model/An ngram model is just a Markov model with a sliding window state
22:28:58 <b_jonas> `wisdom
22:29:00 <HackEgo> internet/The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too.
22:29:02 <b_jonas> `wisdom
22:29:03 <HackEgo> freefull/FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure.
22:29:13 <b_jonas> `wisdom
22:29:14 <HackEgo> cake/The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
22:29:15 <FreeFull> Hi
22:29:19 <b_jonas> `wisdom
22:29:20 <HackEgo> disflagrate/disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized.
22:29:36 <b_jonas> fungot, still not here?
22:29:54 <b_jonas> `? supernatural
22:29:55 <HackEgo> supernatural? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:30:00 <b_jonas> `? magic
22:30:02 <HackEgo> The magic was in you all along.
22:30:09 <int-e> funlost
22:30:11 <b_jonas> `? mtg
22:30:13 <HackEgo> mtg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:30:16 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/magic
22:30:20 <HackEgo> oerjan
22:30:24 <b_jonas> `? m:tg
22:30:25 <HackEgo> m:tg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:30:45 <int-e> `` grep gather wisdom/*
22:30:48 <b_jonas> `? fecupboard20
22:30:57 <HackEgo> fecupboard20? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:31:03 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ Binary file wisdom/reflection matches
22:31:07 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] )
22:31:07 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:31:11 <b_jonas> ``` find wisdom -iname "*upboard*"
22:31:12 <HackEgo> No output.
22:31:18 <oerjan> shachaf: no
22:31:27 <int-e> `? reflection
22:31:28 <HackEgo> cat.reflection.
22:31:32 <shachaf> oerjan: to which one
22:31:35 <int-e> oh it's binary because of 0 bytes... right.
22:32:06 <int-e> `` grep -r ga\\ther wisdom
22:32:08 <HackEgo> No output.
22:32:30 <int-e> `quote gather
22:32:31 <HackEgo> No output.
22:32:59 <shachaf> oerjan: http://stackoverflow.com/a/17794883
22:33:19 <shachaf> i was p. happy with #6
22:33:21 <b_jonas> `? saw
22:33:23 <HackEgo> saw? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:33:30 <b_jonas> g'nite
22:33:36 <oerjan> zgrep: it's only abuse if it means something completely different than what everyone else does hth
22:33:41 <shachaf> `? b_jonas
22:33:42 <HackEgo> b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek.
22:34:02 <shachaf> b_jonas: are you FireFly
22:34:05 <shachaf> `? FireFly
22:34:06 <HackEgo> FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
22:34:09 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:34:15 <zgrep> oerjan: Then all notation started out an abuse.
22:34:37 <zgrep> `? Serenity
22:34:38 <HackEgo> Serenity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:34:40 <shachaf> zgrep: if everyone else means nothing by it then it's not abuse
22:36:00 <oerjan> int-e: in your case, i'm not as sure that it holds for _every_ x /= 0. but maybe it does.
22:36:17 <zgrep> shachaf: Symbols must've somehow gotten overloaded, theoretically there would've been a first, popular meaning for a symbol, then more popped up. For example, greek letters.
22:36:26 <oerjan> or wait hm
22:36:41 <int-e> oerjan: sure, x/n goes to 0 so sin(x/n) = x/n can be used without affecting convergence
22:37:47 <oerjan> int-e: i think that's true, but you need that sin(x/n) is also positive.
22:38:06 <oerjan> which it is (eventually)
22:38:44 <oerjan> or rather, you need that x/n is positive and sin(x/n) is Theta(x/n)
22:39:47 <int-e> oerjan: x < 0 also works, obviously
22:39:51 <oerjan> yeah
22:40:08 <oerjan> well, it's probably about the convergence needing to be absolute.
22:41:08 -!- `^_^ has joined.
22:42:36 <int-e> hmm, right.
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22:43:53 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: to which one <-- that should be obvious given my actions hth
22:44:32 <shachaf> oerjan: oh, i missed that tdh
22:44:44 <int-e> oerjan: Indeed the sequence ... + sin(1/cbrt(n)) + sin(1/cbrt(n)) - sin(2/cbrt(n)) + sin(1/cbrt(n+1)) + sin(1/cbrt(n+1)) - sin(2/cbrt(n+1)) + ... diverges, but converges without the sin().
22:46:08 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: http://stackoverflow.com/a/17794883 <-- i had seen and upvoted that already hth
22:46:39 <int-e> Ah good old single-member class dictionaries.
22:48:56 <int-e> Oh and I still think the reify / reflect terminology is backwards in the literature... values should be concrete, and the types their reflection.
22:49:05 <oerjan> <zgrep> oerjan: Then all notation started out an abuse. <-- um obviously the notation has to be _previously used_ by everyone for something else hth
22:49:19 <shachaf> int-e: That's what I think too.
22:51:50 <zgrep> oerjan: Still, notation is most definitely abused nonetheless. Sometimes because it makes it easier to get a point across. A bad example would be \sum_x as opposed to \sum_{x=0}^{2000} when x is known. Now it's fairly common, at some point it wasn't.
22:52:34 <shachaf> \Sum_{x \in X} is the best version.
22:52:46 <shachaf> What's with mathematical operators having built-in binders?
22:53:06 <shachaf> \Sum (\x -> ...) is the obvious right thing to have.
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22:57:56 <oerjan> shachaf: that has the problem with conditional convergence again
22:58:04 -!- earendel has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:58:16 <oerjan> sometimes you need to know the order of terms.
22:58:44 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
22:58:49 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:59:38 <shachaf> oerjan: ok, well, it's true for exists and forall
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23:21:57 <zzo38> How to disable the existing event handler for the XUL scrollbar so that only mine will be used? How I have it now, it is implementing both
23:24:56 -!- boily has joined.
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23:43:03 <boily> @tell oerjan byerjan!
23:43:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:48:19 <izabera> halp
23:48:21 <zzo38> I almost figured it out
23:48:54 <zzo38> Adding disabled="true" to the xul:slider element disabled the normal left button event, but not the normal middle button event
23:48:54 <izabera> how does a plain sasl work? all i could find was http://www.rfc-base.org/txt/rfc-4616.txt
23:51:26 <Taneb> I need to get very good at writing brainfuck before next Wednesday (the 24th)
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23:55:11 <boily> izabellora. what is sasl?
23:55:13 <Taneb> Because my ego dictates I must be the best at esoteric programming in my entire university and there is a brainfuck competition
23:55:29 <boily> Tanelle. that is perfectly reasonable.
23:56:10 <shachaf> Taneb: show them what's what by inventing a derivative and writing your program in that hth
23:56:23 <Taneb> shachaf, I am not sure that would go down well
23:56:58 <izabera> boily: authentication thingy
23:57:00 <boily> write a befunge interpreter in brainfuck and emulate fungot?
23:57:13 <boily> izabera: bleh. can't help you :/
23:57:44 <izabera> if fungot was on amazon, it needs sasl now to connect to freenode
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