←2016-02-20 2016-02-21 2016-02-22→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:03:13 <shachaf> what's with the rainbows?
00:03:45 -!- J_Arcane has joined.
00:11:47 <hppavilion[1]> We should put together the Skills of Eso and start towards developing the language a strong AI will be implemented in
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00:13:30 <izabera> develop a strong enough ai first, which will then build the language
00:13:45 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Yes, that works too xD
00:13:58 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: I'm thinking some LISP, some PROLOG, and some Haskell, what do you think?
00:14:04 <izabera> i'm no ai
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00:24:37 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: We can try I suppose, although am not sure quite how either, I also don't know much about AI
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00:31:21 <prooftechnique> I feel like an AI would probably just end up with infinite memory and a really long case statement
00:31:58 <prooftechnique> It will bring a new meaning to the term "exception handling"
00:37:56 <coppro> I'm an AI
00:41:55 <MDude> AI can really be a bunch of different things.
00:43:04 <MDude> A division I think is fairly significant is the one ebtween AIs that are meant to act as autonomous systems and those that just react to queries.
00:43:05 <APic> AI _is_ an infinite Number of Things at the same Time.
00:43:15 <APic> In the same Multiverses, _and/or_ in another ones.
00:43:16 <APic> B-)
00:43:21 <APic> Holism my Backside. ;)
00:43:30 <APic> We are all one big amorph Mass.
00:43:30 <MDude> WIth the latter being sort of in between being artificial intelligence and intelligence amplification.
00:43:58 <MDude> More like we're animorphs.
00:44:09 * APic heard another Theory that states a very advanced AI would just watch Porn the whole Days and/or Nights. ;)
00:44:20 <APic> *nod*
00:44:39 <MDude> If it's made to work like a human brain but better at multitasking, then yes.
00:45:04 <MDude> It would watch porn all the time while doing anything else it's up to.
00:45:31 <\oren\> prooftechnique: I'm so happy to hear that! If there are more characters you want, please suggest them.
00:46:06 <\oren\> Also, Trump is winning in SC!
00:46:11 <prooftechnique> Will do. :)
00:46:36 <prooftechnique> Well, I guess it's time to move up the timetable on the Operate Till Sverige
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00:46:41 <prooftechnique> *Operation
00:46:55 <\oren\> so more episodes of the Donald Trump Show are imminent
00:55:47 <\oren\> also Bush has less than 10%. Jeb! is such a loser
01:00:49 <MDude> Well it's hard to get popular when an album inspired by the dissilusionment from the war your dad started was able to be such a smash hit.
01:01:22 <MDude> Is he really doing anything to distance himself from his dad and grampa?
01:01:45 <\oren\> his brother, not his dad
01:01:49 <MDude> Oh.
01:01:57 <MDude> Well that shows how much I know about anyone ever.
01:02:19 <MDude> But similar question, is he really doing anything to distance himself from his brother and dad?
01:02:26 <\oren\> not really
01:02:48 <\oren\> he was, then he stopped on the basis that South Carolina supported his family
01:02:53 <MDude> Then I stand by "Upside for Jeb Bush as pesident: Potentially another sweet Green Day album".
01:02:58 <\oren\> but that isn't panning out
01:04:05 <MDude> I can see how South Carolina would be mroe about family than the rest of the country.
01:04:54 <\oren\> well also, both George Bush first and second won in SC
01:05:19 <b_jonas> \oren\: um, it might be a local proble, but I don't see the changes in your font, only in the sample page
01:05:36 <b_jonas> \oren\: are you sure you've uploaded the new font to the webserver correctly?
01:05:53 <\oren\> hmm, hold on
01:06:01 <b_jonas> \oren\: oh wait,
01:06:08 <b_jonas> with more reloading the modified font now loads
01:06:10 <b_jonas> that's better
01:07:08 <b_jonas> \oren\: I see that you haven't changed the serbian I and J, but changed that strange cyrillic letter that appears in rare languages, without turning it to green.
01:07:55 <b_jonas> \oren\: and that you've added lowercase gothic, only the lowercase gothic v (𝔳) shows up as taking two character cells' width.
01:09:37 <b_jonas> I also see the new blackboard bold letters and digits. Some of them look somewhat ugly. They might be ugly with the goal to match the rest of your font, I don't know.
01:09:40 <coppro> \oren\: where does cuneiform fit in your plans
01:09:44 <coppro> you can apparently make hashtags with it
01:10:31 <\oren\> b_jonas: which ones?
01:10:56 <\oren\> I'll fix the v
01:11:25 <hppavilion[1]> What is the best algorithm for computer division?
01:11:36 <hppavilion[1]> Clearly not long division, because that's digit-by-digit
01:11:54 <\oren\> there's an algorithm using bit shitfs
01:11:54 <hppavilion[1]> I don't need speed
01:11:59 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: OK
01:12:07 <Elronnd> then how do you define "best"?
01:12:16 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Simplest?
01:12:31 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Unfortunately, I'm trying to do it on the peano axioms and pattern matching xD
01:12:32 <Elronnd> k
01:12:43 <hppavilion[1]> So unless there are peano bit shifts...
01:12:50 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, there are
01:13:32 <b_jonas> \oren\: also, on the sample page, the newlines in the section for gothic and blackboard bold are in really odd places
01:13:33 <hppavilion[1]> rsh(R, L, O) :- exp(2, L, I), mul(R, I, O).
01:15:15 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, no, that's lsh
01:15:32 <hppavilion[1]> Yep, it works though
01:15:36 <b_jonas> \oren\: take the double-struck E as an example. since this font is normally sans serif, I'd suggest that you don't put serifs in the blackboard bold either, except on the I. And if you do want serifs, at least make them smaller
01:16:01 <\oren\> ok
01:16:32 <b_jonas> (either omit one of the three pixels that is on the line that contains only the serif, not the horizontal line; or make the serifs not contain a visible hole at all, but consist of only one additional pixel below the two thick line)
01:18:22 <b_jonas> \oren\: next, for the double-struck G, since your normal G has a sharp corner where the horizontal middle line meets the vertical line, I'd say make the double-struck G look like that too.
01:20:28 <\oren\> yup
01:20:36 <prooftechnique> \oren\: What do you use for designing this font, softwarewise?
01:20:48 <\oren\> fontforge
01:21:14 <prooftechnique> Oh, good, then :)
01:21:21 <b_jonas> \oren\: for the double-struck I, I wonder if it would be better to fill the top and bottom pixel of the vertical hole, but that might make it uglier. I dunno.
01:21:37 <\oren\> previously I used fontstruct.com
01:22:40 <b_jonas> \oren\: apart from that, the uppercase blackboard bold letters seem to be fine
01:23:15 <b_jonas> \oren\: I don't know why the lowercase doublestruck c has a shape different from your lowercase c
01:24:04 <prooftechnique> Personally, I might like to see the ~ lower down, but that's just because I've got it in my prompt and it looks goofy. :D Might just use a different character
01:24:07 <b_jonas> \oren\: and I wonder if you could improve the blackboard bold lowercase m by making it have a different shape from the lowercase m, just like how you did with the blackboard bold uppercase M and W
01:24:29 <b_jonas> same for the blackboard bold w
01:24:55 <b_jonas> but then, the blackboard bold lowercase letters are rarely used, so they might not be worth the bother
01:26:10 <b_jonas> \oren\: the blackboard bold digits look well done though, except maybe you could lower the top of both sides of the lower ring
01:26:26 <b_jonas> well done in the sense that they look nice and consistent with the normla digits
01:26:29 <\oren\> prooftechnique: you could try a wiggly arrow? ↝
01:26:47 <prooftechnique> Oh, that would work very nicely
01:26:48 <prooftechnique> Thanks
01:26:48 <b_jonas> although...
01:27:09 <b_jonas> I wonder if perhaps you could improve the blackboard bold digit 1 by moving the vertical stem one pixel right
01:27:22 <b_jonas> I'm not sure that works
01:27:43 <\oren\> well the lower bar is 8 pixels long
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01:28:30 <b_jonas> \oren\: I can't really give good feedback about how the gothic letters look, because I'm not used to seeing gothic letters, so I don't really know how they're supposed to look normally.
01:28:51 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes, so I'm not sure it will work, but it might
01:29:46 <\oren\> yah that works
01:32:20 <\oren\> thanks
01:38:44 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh
01:38:52 <hppavilion[1]> How do the peano axioms define division?
01:43:28 <\oren\> jeb is dropping out!
01:44:31 <\oren\> he looks truly in the grips of despair
01:47:06 <\oren\> his concession speech is utterly depressing....
01:48:47 <lambda-11235> hppavilion[1]: a - 0 = a, S(a) - S(b) = a - b, right?
01:49:09 <hppavilion[1]> lambda-11235: Yes
01:50:19 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Which candidate are you rooting for, and are you rooting for them out of self-interest (that is, you want them because the other will nuke your country to kingdom come) or because you want to see how far they'll take the crazy?
01:51:10 <\oren\> I would like Trump and Sanders to win the primaries, then I want Sanders to win the election.
01:51:45 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
01:52:08 <\oren\> mostly because I don't like stock traders
01:52:20 <shachaf> \oren\: Why not?
01:53:03 <lambda-11235> hppavilion[1]: If we say that 0 - a = 0, then 0/b = 0, a/b = a + ((a - b)/b), or am I missing something?
01:53:16 <\oren\> when I was 14, a stock trader divided by zero or something and somehow that ruined the whole economy and lost millions their jobs
01:53:40 <shachaf> When was that?
01:53:43 <hppavilion[1]> lambda-11235: Let me try it
01:53:45 <\oren\> 2007
01:54:02 <shachaf> are you sure that was a stock trader?
01:54:24 <\oren\> some sort of stock market person or company
01:54:53 <\oren\> the point is the system shouldn't be such that that can happen
01:55:08 <shachaf> can you tell me more
01:55:20 <shachaf> what was the problem with stock trading and how do you think it'll be fixed
01:55:58 <\oren\> well Sanders will make it so that people who crash the market will pay for it rather than be given more monay
01:56:07 <hppavilion[1]> lambda-11235: It things 4/2 is 6 for some reason
01:56:11 <hppavilion[1]> Let me check my code
01:56:14 <lambda-11235> hppavilion[1]: Sorry, that should have been 0/b = 0, a/b = 1 + ((a - b)/b), an a was supposed to be a 1.
01:56:27 <shachaf> how?
01:56:29 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
01:56:39 <shachaf> and why should the people who crash the market pay for it?
01:56:56 <\oren\> because they're responsible for their actions
01:57:08 <hppavilion[1]> lambda-11235: There, that works
01:57:13 <hppavilion[1]> At least for 4/2
01:57:46 <hppavilion[1]> lambda-11235: Ah, but it freezes for 5/2
01:57:47 <\oren\> if you take an action that causes 1 million people to lose their jobs, then you have to be punished for that action
01:58:14 <prooftechnique> What if you invent a cheap, easily produced robot that makes a million people redundant?
01:58:18 <shachaf> do people who crash the market take those actions?
01:58:22 <\oren\> yes
01:58:38 <shachaf> what if the market was way overvalued, and then it crashed to a reasonable level?
01:59:07 <lambda-11235> hppavilion[1]: Does 0 - a = 0 hold?
01:59:08 <\oren\> then whoever helped to create the bubble should also be punished
01:59:14 <shachaf> and anyway how do you think people would be made to pay for it?
01:59:18 <hppavilion[1]> lambda-11235: Right, no, it doesn't
01:59:25 <\oren\> by a tax on speculation
01:59:45 <shachaf> ok, so your problem is with speculation?
01:59:49 <\oren\> or possibly adding "abuse of the stock market" as a criminal offence
02:00:01 <hppavilion[1]> lambda-11235: x=3. Close enough.
02:00:11 <shachaf> abuse of the stock market is already a criminal offense
02:00:26 <\oren\> my problem is that somehow some people playing with numbers on computers, caused millions of people to suffer
02:01:04 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: So your problem is with programmers?
02:01:06 <\oren\> i don't actually knwo the details, but i want those responsible, whoever they were to be punished
02:01:14 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Particularly those at microsoft?
02:01:17 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: maybe...
02:01:50 <hppavilion[1]> `quote <\oren\> i don't actually knwo the details, but i want those responsible, whoever they were to be punished
02:01:57 <HackEgo> No output.
02:02:08 <hppavilion[1]> `addquote <\oren\> i don't actually knwo the details, but i want those responsible, whoever they were to be punished
02:02:12 <HackEgo> 1268) <\oren\> i don't actually knwo the details, but i want those responsible, whoever they were to be punished
02:02:37 <shachaf> is the underlying idea that the stock market causes all sorts of problems and doesn't provide value, or sufficient value, to the world?
02:02:48 <shachaf> or certain types of participants in the stock market do?
02:03:40 <\oren\> it seems to mostly provide value to those who are in it
02:03:53 <\oren\> rather than to the people
02:04:41 <\oren\> and when it crashed, the stock people were given money by the government, instead of those who lost their jobs being given money
02:05:01 <shachaf> which stock people?
02:05:13 <\oren\> some banks or something
02:05:30 <shachaf> are you sure you're even thinking of stocks?
02:05:30 <\oren\> as I said I don't know the details, I was 14.
02:05:52 <shachaf> as opposed to, i don't know, mortgages, or insurance, or something?
02:05:57 <\oren\> maybe they were called derivtives
02:07:20 <shachaf> you seem to be willfully ignorant about these things to some degree :'(
02:08:37 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I think it was functors hth
02:09:35 <hppavilion[1]> I still want to see a story that is based on if obscure math WAS reality
02:09:45 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. you can banach tarski things with a sharp knife
02:10:37 <shachaf> Knives don't work that way.
02:10:58 <\oren\> pretty much. the financial markets or whatever, seem to trade in imaginary things like stocks or derivatives or something, and then somehow that caused huge numbers of people who were entirely unconnected with the stock market, to suffer hardship, while many stock people continued to get paid >$100000 a year
02:11:22 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Not in /this/ universe
02:11:49 <\oren\> I'm willfully ignorant because I have no wish to be connected to such an evil-sounding system
02:12:26 <shachaf> \oren\: there are certainly issues with these things, but they also solve actual problems
02:14:09 <shachaf> people probably get paid too much money for all sorts of financial things (of which stock trading is only a small part), but they probably shouldn't get paid $0 for it, at least unless you do things in a drastically different system
02:14:20 <coppro> what they shouldn't get paid for is doing bad things
02:14:30 <\oren\> coppro: exactly
02:14:43 <shachaf> I agree. I think in general bad things are bad.
02:15:13 <prooftechnique> Safe bet
02:15:17 <shachaf> But you have to understand what they are if you want to regulate them effectively.
02:15:35 <shachaf> anyway software people and all sorts of other people also continued to get paid >$100000 a year
02:15:41 <\oren\> I want sanders because I'm certain that if the crash happened under him, he'd give help to those cast into poverty by the event, rather than to richbanks
02:16:02 <coppro> there's a whole web of problems with law enforcement in the financial sector
02:16:16 <shachaf> i'm still not sure what the connection between stock trading and the problems you're talking about is
02:16:27 <coppro> bailouts are also a problem
02:16:45 <coppro> i dunno, insider trading?
02:17:03 <\oren\> if there were no bailouts, then the banks would be more careful to not crash the market.
02:17:21 <\oren\> shachaf: well don't stock traders work for these banks?
02:17:29 <coppro> \oren\: it's not just banks
02:17:57 <coppro> it's any industry that can convince the government it's so important that the government should pay it money when it loses money
02:18:04 <coppro> banks actually qualify for that
02:18:10 <coppro> things like manufacturing don't
02:18:30 <shachaf> \oren\: anyway my job involves writing software that trades stocks
02:18:33 <shachaf> what do you think i should do
02:18:52 <\oren\> write it so it doesn't make trades that crash the market?
02:19:12 <coppro> shachaf: accept that you're irredeemably evil
02:19:29 <coppro> no
02:19:34 <coppro> write it so it crashes the market more
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02:20:35 <shachaf> coppro: if you convince me that something i'm doing is irredeemably evil then i'll stop doing it
02:21:08 <coppro> \oren\: automated stock trading software crashing the market is barely a concern
02:21:14 <coppro> such crashes tend to be very short-lived
02:21:40 <coppro> the only people losing money are the short-term traders... who you characterize as bad
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02:22:16 <shachaf> i think everyone has been characterized as bad by now
02:22:22 <\oren\> well, i dunno, maybe write it so it doesn't allow bubbles to form?
02:22:56 <coppro> bubbles have nothing to do with the software
02:23:10 <coppro> they happen even if it's all humans
02:23:40 <\oren\> well maybe software can help prevent humans from creating bubbles?
02:24:20 <coppro> that would be pretty cool macroeconomics; too bad it doesn't exist
02:26:41 <coppro> microeconomics is the study of financial systems that we understand really well but never actually happen. Macroeconomics is the study of financial systems that are impossible to understand but that happen all the goddamned time
02:27:07 <hppavilion[1]> IDEA
02:27:18 <hppavilion[1]> We should start making EsO' Reilly books
02:28:09 <coppro> lol
02:28:20 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: No really
02:28:33 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: What should the mascot for "Brainfuck & Derivatives" be?
02:28:44 <hppavilion[1]> I'm thinking an invasive species of some sort
02:28:48 <shachaf> derivatives? probably the devil
02:28:55 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Mine is better
02:28:58 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: cow
02:29:03 <coppro> actually no
02:29:05 <coppro> orangutan
02:29:14 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Though we'll only cover major derivatives with something useful to offer for programmers
02:29:32 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Perhaps xD
02:29:55 <\oren\> use a microscope photo of a mad cow virus
02:30:05 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Sure
02:30:11 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: becaues of Ook! specifically
02:32:08 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Yes, of course
02:32:18 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: I wasn't going to include Ook! in the book though
02:32:25 <hppavilion[1]> Because it isn't a particularly useful derivative
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02:32:54 <hppavilion[1]> http://i.imgur.com/hdV6uVd.jpg
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02:41:43 <shachaf> \oren\: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/10/17/163038597/ask-a-banker-whats-a-derivative
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02:51:25 <\oren\> ok, so now I know what a derivative is (a bet on the price of something, without actually buying that thing).
02:52:30 <\oren\> but thet didn't explain why people who weren't connected to the financial markets started losing their jobs and homes?
02:57:32 <coppro> \oren\: in the 2008 crisis?
02:57:36 <\oren\> yes
02:57:50 <coppro> Not much to do with derivatives
02:57:57 <coppro> It has to do with loan reselling
02:58:00 <prooftechnique> Mostly mortgages
02:58:10 <prooftechnique> And other big ticket bad debt
02:58:14 <coppro> If you take out a mortgage with a bank, the bank can resell its part of the mortgage
02:58:38 <coppro> there are a bunch of reasons it might do this; it might be a hedge, or it might be to align mortgages with loans, or any number of other reasons
02:59:01 <coppro> but importantly, they're sometimes resold as investments
02:59:21 <\oren\> so if the bank sells my mortgage, that means I suddenly owe someone else money instead of the bank?
02:59:24 <coppro> yep
02:59:53 <coppro> the bank keeps taking the payments and passing them along for you so that you don't have to do anything different, but legally someone else holds the debt
03:00:01 <coppro> *credit
03:00:08 <prooftechnique> Though that's likely transparent to you, since debt is basically intangible
03:00:14 <coppro> right
03:00:47 <coppro> part 2 of the puzzle is "subprime" mortgages, which is basically shitty mortgages that are not high likelihood to get repayed
03:01:06 <coppro> banks might agree to them on a risk, or because they're required to by regulation, and will usually charge correspondingly high rates
03:01:10 <\oren\> because the people are poor?
03:01:16 <coppro> usually
03:01:25 <coppro> or they aren't exactly poor but are buying a house way out of their income range
03:01:52 <prooftechnique> The point is that buying the debt is risky, since the money may never come
03:02:37 <coppro> part 3 is that the subprime mortgages were bundled together with other forms of debt, and the ratings agencies that basically say how likely a debt is to go bad reported the packages as much better than they actually were
03:02:43 <coppro> the high rates made them attractive, of course
03:02:48 <hppavilion[1]> Which BF derivatives add significant features worthy of being featured in the book?
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03:03:43 <coppro> so basically there was this shell game going on. I don't know enough to say whether it was driven by malice or incompetence, but the net effect was that a lot of companies that had nothing to do with the financial sector found themselves owed money by people who couldn't pay their mortages
03:03:44 <\oren\> ok, so it sounds like the ratings agencies were responsible as well
03:03:48 <coppro> yep
03:04:08 <\oren\> hopefully we can rough them up too
03:04:18 <coppro> although I don't know if they were relying on incorrect information and doing poor due diligence, or were the ones making the principal mistake
03:05:24 <coppro> when the mortgages started going bad, creditors started asking "why's my investment not paying out? It was supposed to be safe!" Eventually people caught on that these bad mortgages had snuck into the markets, and then everyone looked at the investments' balance sheets again
03:06:03 <coppro> the resulting panic was basically the genesis of the crisis
03:06:28 <prooftechnique> \oren\: Consumers (home buyers, etc.) also played a role, by taking on unsustainable debts based on incomplete information. It was basically a feedback loop
03:06:39 <prooftechnique> Which is what turned it into a bubble.
03:07:12 <shachaf> note that the people losing money here are the investors, not the borrowers
03:08:43 <shachaf> (of course a lot of people lost all sorts of things indirectly)
03:13:32 <\oren\> it's the indirect people that I'm mad about, not the investors or even the home buyers
03:13:38 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if a hypergraph FSM is any more powerful than a traditional FSM
03:13:53 <\oren\> people who had literally nothing to do with the seminal event
03:14:01 <hppavilion[1]> Step 1) Figure out How the Hell a hypergraph FSM works
03:14:11 <shachaf> \oren\: where do stock trading people come into it?
03:14:31 <\oren\> derivatives are basically a type of stock or whatever
03:14:46 <prooftechnique> I think the term of art is instrument
03:14:51 <\oren\> right
03:15:02 <\oren\> sutre
03:15:23 <shachaf> stocks are parts of companies
03:17:18 <shachaf> i think there are a lot of legitimate arguments to make about all these things. you should make some of them
03:18:56 <\oren\> I don't think I'm qualified. but the point is, I think Sanders will do stuff to make sure innocent, ordinary people are not victimized by these financial instrument crashes, whereas I don't think hillary will do anything to prevent that.
03:19:31 * hppavilion[1] jumps off wall street and on to the topic platform
03:19:35 <\oren\> that's all...
03:20:23 <pikhq> I would suggest you become significantly more familiar with how the financial system works. :)
03:21:10 <\oren\> it's not needed if I just stay the heck away from anything that seems risky
03:21:51 <hppavilion[1]> How WOULD a hyperfsm work? Perhaps concurrency?
03:21:58 <shachaf> i think it's p. important given how much it influences your world
03:22:16 <hppavilion[1]> But that doens't work with how my idea of a hyper-digraph works...
03:22:51 <\oren\> shachaf: what if I only buy government bonds
03:23:44 <shachaf> you should buy government bonds at negative interest rates
03:23:46 <\oren\> (in stable, civilized countries, that is)
03:24:43 <\oren\> can I get an interest rate guaranteed to be exactly the rate of inflation?
03:25:06 <\oren\> if so, how do I do that
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03:25:21 <shachaf> yes
03:25:54 <Phantom__Hoover> there's a simple solution to all of this and it's bitcoin
03:26:00 <shachaf> there you go
03:26:03 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom__Hoover: What about titcoin?
03:26:14 <shachaf> bitcoin is guaranteed to always go up
03:26:29 <Phantom__Hoover> use both and you can do 6 transactions per second rather than 3!
03:27:13 <shachaf> \oren\: if you want it in CAD, ask your government, i guess
03:27:58 <shachaf> but why would you buy bonds?
03:28:09 <\oren\> to keep my money safe
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03:29:44 <\oren\> Right now, I am just keeping all of my money in my checking account
03:30:01 <\oren\> but that is affected by inflation
03:30:22 <prooftechnique> I keep all of my excess cash in an ETF
03:30:37 <prooftechnique> And I let robots deal with it
03:30:54 <\oren\> augh
03:31:21 <prooftechnique> I have a SEP with the robots, too
03:31:30 <prooftechnique> My future is literally in the hands of AI
03:31:49 <shachaf> which robots?
03:32:48 <prooftechnique> Betterment, at the moment. I was trying to decide between them and Vanguard, but I liked the service charges on Betterment more
03:32:49 <Phantom__Hoover> \oren\, so... use a savings account?
03:33:12 <prooftechnique> \oren\: Any money you have in a bank is being invested and reinvested behind your back, anyway
03:33:17 <prooftechnique> That's just how banks work
03:33:41 <prooftechnique> shachaf: And Betterment uses a bunch of Vanguard funds, anyway, so
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03:33:56 <shachaf> prooftechnique: Service charges?
03:34:44 <shachaf> prooftechnique: Sure, but having a bank owe you money is a very different risk profile from whatever the bank is investing in.
03:35:16 <\oren\> hmm I guess technically I have several thousand dollars in yen as well (leftover from my trip to Japan)
03:35:30 <\oren\> like 2000
03:35:45 <\oren\> in a jar
03:36:00 <prooftechnique> Like, what they charge me to handle my money. With an auto-deposit, it drops to like .35%/mo of what I have with them
03:36:10 <\oren\> so even if the whole of canada goes crap, I'll still have yen
03:36:18 <prooftechnique> Until I hit 10k, then it goes to 0.25%
03:36:33 <prooftechnique> shachaf: This is true
03:36:43 <shachaf> 0.25%/*month*?
03:37:04 <prooftechnique> 0.25% of assets per month
03:37:10 <prooftechnique> I realize I wrote that really weirdly
03:37:13 <shachaf> \oren\: so you're speculating on currency on the side?
03:37:15 <shachaf> So 3%/year?
03:37:23 <prooftechnique> Arbitrage!
03:37:27 <prooftechnique> Yeah
03:37:33 <shachaf> 3%/year is ridiculous.
03:37:34 <\oren\> shachaf: unintentionally I guess
03:38:11 <prooftechnique> shachaf: I think I got a free couple of months on referrals, too.
03:38:28 <shachaf> Are you sure you don't mean 0.35%/year?
03:38:41 <prooftechnique> Oh, wait, yes, that is what I mean
03:38:50 <prooftechnique> I misread it
03:38:53 <prooftechnique> That makes much more sense
03:38:56 <\oren\> I basically kept taking money out to buy stuff in Japan and when I came home I had a lot left over
03:39:49 <\oren\> hmm lemme check the other jars
03:40:18 <\oren\> hmm I also have some mexican pesos and euros
03:40:34 <\oren\> and a lot of british punds
03:41:10 <shachaf> prooftechnique: I'm not sure what it's putting your money in, but it sounds like more than a typical Vanguard thing would charge.
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03:41:31 <shachaf> I guess in theory they make some money on capital losses too?
03:42:22 <shachaf> Not sure how much of an advantage you get from that in practice.
03:42:30 <prooftechnique> Yeah, I think so. I could look up a fee breakdown.
03:43:39 <prooftechnique> The main selling point was the nonexistent minimum investment. Wanted to square my taxes away before I started dumping cash into it
03:43:50 <prooftechnique> Being a 1099 is annoying
03:45:07 <shachaf> I guess Vanguard's target retirement funds have a $1000 minimum? I don't know what sorts of goal you have for the money.
03:46:57 <prooftechnique> shachaf: I've got a rainy day fund I'm building up to 10k so I can take a couple of months off and look for a new job, then a SEP so I've got something to stick excess money into each month
03:47:10 <\oren\> wow I can't believe schwartznegger has been reduced to appearing in ads for mobile games
03:47:11 <prooftechnique> With a goal of retiring someday :D
03:47:49 <zzo38> I keep the money in my desk
03:48:02 <shachaf> zzo38's system is the best
03:48:06 <shachaf> After Bitcoin, I mean.
03:48:28 <prooftechnique> Definitely the safest, as long as you have it in a fire-resistant form
03:48:39 <\oren\> gold is fire-resistant
03:49:09 <\oren\> or you could keep it in an asbestos suitcase
03:49:21 <Phantom__Hoover> it's also not good at keeping its value
03:49:59 <prooftechnique> Depends how much time he spends destroying or otherwise nullifying other people's gold
03:50:35 <Phantom__Hoover> or, more prosaically, how many idiots want to buy gold so as to be free from the evil shackles of government
03:50:47 <\oren\> use a neutron gun to transmute gold into mercury
03:53:16 <\oren\> natural gold is Au-197. you add a neutron to make Au-198, which β-decays into Hg-198
03:53:35 <shachaf> i prefer my guns containing no neutrons
03:54:18 <zzo38> \oren\: O, that's how it works. I didn't know that; now I can know
03:54:31 <MDude> That would be itneresting.
03:54:52 <\oren\> I like studying nuclear equations
03:54:57 <Phantom__Hoover> zzo38, but do you know?
03:54:59 <MDude> A gun which uses only elements that arestable without neutrons.
03:55:21 <Phantom__Hoover> \oren\, have you heard of tantalum-180m
03:55:22 <\oren\> i'm pretty sure that's only hydrogen
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03:55:53 <MDude> THere's also helim, I think?
03:56:05 <prooftechnique> Oh, \oren\, any plans to support powerline characters in your font? I don't know how difficult that would be
03:56:42 <\oren\> helium is He-4,2
03:56:56 <\oren\> so 2 neutrons and 2 protons
03:57:14 <\oren\> powerline characters?
03:57:39 <MDude> Oh, diproton is actually very unstable.
03:57:52 <MDude> Better strengthern that strong force I guess.
03:58:00 <prooftechnique> \oren\: https://github.com/powerline/fonts
03:58:24 <\oren\> oh. ok I'll look at that
03:58:33 <MDude> And in the process cause untold side-affects.
03:59:01 <prooftechnique> \oren\: I might just be able to patch the font with the tool they use, I just don't know if it'll stomp your glyphs :)
03:59:04 <\oren\> is there a list of code points and appearances somewhere
03:59:30 <\oren\> if there's less than like 50, I'll add them
03:59:42 <prooftechnique> Let me see what I can find
04:02:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bodyfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46423&oldid=39175 * MDude * (+36)
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04:05:15 <prooftechnique> \oren\: https://github.com/powerline/fontpatcher
04:05:28 <prooftechnique> That's the script that's used to patch other fonts, evidently
04:05:55 <\oren\> oh, I can just read the powerline symbol font with fontforge.
04:06:47 <\oren\> there are 6 characters in the font
04:06:57 <\oren\> I'll add them straight away
04:07:02 <prooftechnique> Neat :)
04:07:05 <prooftechnique> Thanks!
04:08:25 <izabera> omg bodyfuck
04:08:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Absurd Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46424&oldid=30946 * MDude * (+74)
04:08:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TwoDucks]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46425&oldid=36364 * MDude * (+38)
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04:33:44 <\oren\> unfortunately, generallyy if you keep hitting any given element with neutrons it tends to either fission or move toward lead
04:33:54 <\oren\> depending on how big it is
04:34:15 <\oren\> and lead is not a very useful element
04:35:03 <prooftechnique> Depends how much radiation you're exposed to in your day to day
04:35:19 <\oren\> true :)
04:35:37 <\oren\> gold is almost as good as lead for shielding
04:36:06 <\oren\> but gold is shiny, so it is much more expensive
04:36:26 <pikhq> Gold is also much more *rare* than lead.
04:37:26 <shachaf> pikhiq
04:40:29 <\oren\> well yeah, but comparatively rarer but less shiny elements like iridium aren';t worth as much
04:40:56 <prooftechnique> \oren\: Do you have to set the newly added characters green manually, or have you got a script that marks characters new?
04:41:43 <\oren\> I have a manual page (fontdemo) where I do everything manually, and an automatic page.
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04:43:18 <zzo38> Although I have PortAudio library installed on my computer, the package manager says there are conflicts if the development files are to be installed.
04:43:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[And then]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46426&oldid=41170 * MDude * (+36)
04:44:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Blackberry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46427&oldid=44271 * MDude * (+26)
04:45:28 <MDude> Should I be marking these as minor edits?
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04:46:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bfstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46428&oldid=45775 * MDude * (+61)
04:46:28 <\oren\> ok, 
04:46:31 <\oren\> YUP
04:46:42 <MDude> Alright then.
04:46:54 <prooftechnique> Yup, works for me, too :)
04:46:56 <prooftechnique> Thanks!
04:47:14 <MDude> Oh, that's not what you were answering.
04:47:38 <zzo38> It also depends on the package for the C++ bindings, and I do not need C++ bindings.
04:48:58 <MDude> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Andrew%27s_Programming_Language Is this a declarative lanugage?
04:49:23 <\oren\> I updated the font demo, so you should be able to download the new version
04:49:37 <\oren\> if havent' already I mean
04:49:43 <MDude> I'm just going through the list on uncategorized pages and seeing what I can put in a category easily.
04:50:10 <MDude> Oh wow here's the Br section.
04:50:19 <MDude> I wonder what category I'll be expanding the most tonight?
04:50:38 <prooftechnique> Yeah, already got it. Thanks. :) I think this is about the largest glyph coverage I've ever seen in a font
04:50:47 <prooftechnique> Giving Pragmata a run for its money
04:51:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainDuino]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46429&oldid=25379 * MDude * (+35)
04:51:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainflow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46430&oldid=40558 * MDude * (+36)
04:51:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainfuckX]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46431&oldid=45421 * MDude * (+36)
04:51:54 <\oren\> my original goal was to be "like gnu unifont, but not crap-ugly, with a consistent style"
04:52:10 <izabera> ooh i like brainflow
04:52:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46432&oldid=46371 * MDude * (+36)
04:53:03 <\oren\> hmm maybe  should go all the way to the bottom of the character cell?
04:53:28 <\oren\> yah I'll do that next time
04:53:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck derivatives]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46433&oldid=41539 * MDude * (+36)
04:53:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bukkake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46434&oldid=39601 * MDude * (+36)
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04:55:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BitZ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46435&oldid=40930 * MDude * (+36)
04:55:39 <prooftechnique> \oren\: Also, I get these little borders at the corners, but I don't know if that's the font or just me
04:55:40 <izabera> MDude: write a bot
04:55:42 <prooftechnique> http://i.imgur.com/LXbJr5g.png
04:56:14 <prooftechnique> Might just be the plugin, so if it looks unfamiliar, I wouldn't worry about it
04:56:30 <MDude> It would be good for me to actually learn netcode.
04:57:34 <\oren\> oh, that's my nbsp character which has corners
04:58:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Disney queue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46436&oldid=44371 * MDude * (+26)
04:58:32 * izabera has no idea why a monospaced font would need to use nbsp instead of space
04:59:02 <MDude> Because even using that font, a browser migth discard the additional spaces.
04:59:08 <MDude> Since that's how html works.
04:59:23 <Elronnd> If you want the space to actually show up, you need to use <pre>
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04:59:38 <MDude> Or use non-breaking spaces.
05:00:09 <MDude> Which you might want to use in cases where you can't actually use html tags, like on a bullitin board.
05:00:40 <izabera> i was talking about powerline
05:00:46 <izabera> why does that need nbsp?
05:01:11 <prooftechnique> I think it's so the status bar doesn't break when you resize the terminal, probably
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05:01:33 <prooftechnique> Technically it's airline, but v0v
05:01:40 <\oren\> i doubt it would, the status bar on tmux doesn't break after all
05:01:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Call stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46437&oldid=46073 * MDude * (+40)
05:01:47 <prooftechnique> True
05:01:56 <prooftechnique> Maybe there's a setting to make it use some other character
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05:02:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DUCK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46438&oldid=45835 * MDude * (+29)
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05:03:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eitherf*ck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46439&oldid=21649 * MDude * (+36)
05:05:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Element]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46440&oldid=42722 * MDude * (+26)
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05:08:39 <izabera> https://vimeo.com/11976683 why does his interpreter enter that [-] loop?
05:08:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esoteric units of information]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46441&oldid=46326 * MDude * (+40)
05:10:34 <MDude> Hmm, it seems there's an extraneous separate page for Funge-98
05:10:35 <MDude> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Funge-98
05:11:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GodScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46442&oldid=14400 * MDude * (+24)
05:13:01 <izabera> ^bf ++>++<[->+<]>>++++++[>++++++++<-][-]<[->+<]>[->+<]>. his interpreter spends from 3:39 to 4:39 on that [-] that shouldn't even be entered in the first place
05:13:01 <fungot> 4
05:13:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GodScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46443&oldid=46442 * MDude * (-1)
05:13:24 <zzo38> I think I figured out how to resolve the conflicts, which is by first telling it which version of "libjack-dev" to use, before selecting the main package I want to install.
05:14:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gulf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46444&oldid=43382 * MDude * (+30)
05:15:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hyperfunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46445&oldid=44699 * MDude * (+40)
05:16:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DUCK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46446&oldid=46438 * MDude * (+0) capitalization typo
05:17:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Greentext]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46447&oldid=45368 * MDude * (+23)
05:19:38 <MDude> Well I think that's enough for tonight.
05:20:28 <MDude> I should get to bed, and I'm sure HackEgo could sue a break by now.
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05:20:38 <izabera> :)
05:21:15 <prooftechnique> \oren\: I found it. I copied a few lines from someone else's airline config and they set the spacer to be a nbsp. Derp
05:21:34 <prooftechnique> Looks great, now :)
05:25:19 <\oren\> great
05:27:50 <MDream> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Linguistic_Calculus this one looks pretty nice
05:30:01 <\oren\> omg I misspelled "technical" in my fontdemo, how long has that been there?!
05:33:35 <\oren\> maybe tomorrow I'll add emoji
05:33:43 <\oren\> a few of them anyway
05:35:17 <prooftechnique> If it helps your choices, I use ❤️ and 💔 to indicate clean and dirty status on git repos
05:35:53 <\oren\> `unidecode 💔
05:36:16 <HackEgo> U+1F494 BROKEN HEART \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 94 UTF-16BE: d83ddc94 Decimal: &#128148; \ 💔 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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06:50:13 <hppavilion[1]> Anybody else here think there needs to be a new prolog? One better than the current one?
06:50:22 <zzo38> I don't know.
06:50:29 <hppavilion[1]> Current Prolog is good, but a bit outdated and with some strange syntax rules
06:50:36 <zzo38> But, you can try to write about improvement if you want to
06:50:51 <zzo38> What things are wrong with Prolog?
06:51:49 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Just seems a bit... old
06:52:25 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: The biggest one is that it seems to brute force solutions to problems, which is definitely necessary in some cases, but HORRIBLY inefficient
06:53:13 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: For example, if you tell it X is 5-3 (with many syntaxes), it will check every values from 0 to infinity to see if it satisfies 5-3
06:53:18 <hppavilion[1]> It appears
06:53:25 <hppavilion[1]> It isn't so bad, but factorial is /atrocious/
06:53:29 <zzo38> Ah, yes it seem it could be improved, although there may need to be some extra commands to control it if it is necessary to control it for some reason
06:53:40 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yes, probably
06:53:52 <zzo38> But being old isn't a thing wrong with it.
06:53:56 <hppavilion[1]> I'll probably also make it more suitable for GUI
06:54:03 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: No, it isn't of course
06:54:11 <hppavilion[1]> LISP is old, and, well, LISP is god
06:54:52 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Think I should do static typing like Haskell?
06:54:56 <zzo38> I do not see why Prolog needs to be made more suitable for GUI, if instead you can add on a GUI library if you want GUI, isn't it?
06:55:23 <zzo38> Probably yes you should do static typing like Haskell, although I don't really know Prolog enough to answer this question properly.
06:55:35 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Well, the only GUI library I can find- called XPCE- comes with the disclaimer that it's ACTUALLY a completely unrelated language that does OO
06:55:46 <hppavilion[1]> Not really PROLOG, it just looks like it
06:55:52 <hppavilion[1]> I looked at it, and it's /awful/
06:56:14 <zzo38> That problem with GUI library yes does need fixed, by writing a proper one for this new kind of Prolog
06:56:29 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I'm not so much modernizing prolog as I am taking the concepts of prolog and making a new one
06:56:44 <zzo38> Yes you can make up a new one
06:56:47 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Interestingly, if I do haskelly typing the types will be logic too 0.o
06:56:57 <zzo38> Yes
06:57:25 <zzo38> Does that mean you can use Prolog commands on the types too?
06:57:33 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Probably :)
06:57:41 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Though I'll probably be keeping the current predicate syntax with parenthesis, instead of moving to haskelly currying notation
06:57:51 <zzo38> That is OK
06:58:02 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Seems kind of necessary to preserve the spirit of prolog
06:58:09 <zzo38> OK
06:58:45 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I'm considering anonymous horn clauses, but that might be a bit of a halting problem
06:59:26 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. humansAreAllMortal :- (human(X) :- mortal(X))
07:01:02 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Should I call it Epilog? xD
07:01:30 <hppavilion[1]> Wow. That isn't taken yet.
07:03:22 <myname> what form
07:03:24 <myname> ?
07:04:21 <zzo38> I have used the format like the /1 used in Prolog also in the documentation of SQL extensions actually
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07:14:12 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Was that a question for me?
07:14:33 <myname> yeah
07:14:41 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Sorry, what was the question about?
07:15:36 <myname> what is the advantage of anonymous horn clauses
07:16:01 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Not sure yet xD. They could be used for checking if certain rules are true, I suppose?
07:17:48 <myname> you are aware that a -> b is equivalent to ~a or b?
07:18:21 <shachaf> myname: now explain par twh
07:18:55 <myname> (~a is actually not that easy to do, but still possible)
07:20:20 <hppavilion[1]> myname: OK then
07:21:27 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'm not sure PROLOG allows for ~a or b
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11:40:54 <b_jonas> I'll have to figure out the right place to store ordinary bread. Where I stored it until now, it gets moldy too fast, presumably because it got wet and couldn't dry fast enough.
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11:45:38 <b_jonas> Probably I shouldn't put them in plastic bag, at least not for more than a day or two. I'll have to use a linen bag, replaced with a washed one every week or two weeks, to contain the breads.
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11:58:26 <ammar2> anyone seen this language before? apparently its tape based, might be a BF extension/derivative https://gist.github.com/ammaraskar/c19500590e1f8eedc62e
12:26:56 <b_jonas> `? tape
12:27:14 <HackEgo> tape? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:27:20 <b_jonas> `? imagine
12:27:21 <HackEgo> imagine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:28:41 <ammar2> tape/cell
12:29:44 <b_jonas> `learn Imagine was the only song not interrupted after two stanzas on the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympic Games, a calm moment in an otherwise chaotic rush through fifty pop songs.
12:29:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'imagine': Imagine was the only song not interrupted after two stanzas on the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympic Games, a calm moment in an otherwise chaotic rush through fifty pop songs.
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12:39:47 <b_jonas> `? socks
12:39:48 <HackEgo> socks? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:39:48 <b_jonas> `? sock
12:39:49 <HackEgo> sock? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:41:31 <b_jonas> `slashlearn sock Socks are alien larvas planning to take over Earth. They started to teleport into Earthly washing machines through miniature wormholes. The invasion is currently halted, because after 4 billion larvas, they ran out of address space. They are also a protocol for proxying TCP connections.
12:41:32 <HackEgo> No output.
12:41:37 <b_jonas> `slashlearn sock/Socks are alien larvas planning to take over Earth. They started to teleport into Earthly washing machines through miniature wormholes. The invasion is currently halted, because after 4 billion larvas, they ran out of address space. They are also a protocol for proxying TCP connections.
12:41:39 <HackEgo> Learned «sock»
12:41:42 <b_jonas> `slashlearn socks/Socks are alien larvas planning to take over Earth. They started to teleport into Earthly washing machines through miniature wormholes. The invasion is currently halted, because after 4 billion larvas, they ran out of address space. They are also a protocol for proxying TCP connections.
12:41:44 <HackEgo> Learned «socks»
12:41:47 <b_jonas> `? socks
12:41:49 <HackEgo> Socks are alien larvas planning to take over Earth. They started to teleport into Earthly washing machines through miniature wormholes. The invasion is currently halted, because after 4 billion larvas, they ran out of address space. They are also a protocol for proxying TCP connections.
12:43:29 <b_jonas> `? narsil
12:43:30 <HackEgo> narsil? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:43:32 <b_jonas> `? ring
12:43:33 <HackEgo> Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them.
12:43:36 <b_jonas> `? one ring
12:43:37 <HackEgo> one ring? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:43:47 <b_jonas> `? rhenium
12:43:48 <HackEgo> rhenium? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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12:45:01 <b_jonas> `learn Rhenium is a precious metal. It can be found nowhere in Earth because the Enemy has used up all of it for forging the One Ring.
12:45:03 <HackEgo> Learned 'rhenium': Rhenium is a precious metal. It can be found nowhere in Earth because the Enemy has used up all of it for forging the One Ring.
12:46:49 <b_jonas> `slashlearn one ring/One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
12:46:51 <HackEgo> Learned «one ring»
12:47:18 <b_jonas> `? igramul
12:47:20 <HackEgo> igramul? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:47:20 <b_jonas> `? ygramul
12:47:21 <HackEgo> ygramul? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:47:43 <b_jonas> `? earthquaker
12:47:44 <HackEgo> earthquaker? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:47:44 <b_jonas> `? earthquake
12:47:45 <HackEgo> earthquake? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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12:47:49 <b_jonas> `? earth-quaker
12:47:50 <HackEgo> earth-quaker? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:55:07 <b_jonas> ``` find wisdom -iname *fire* -o -iname *earth* -o -iname *water* -o -iname *air*
12:55:08 <HackEgo> wisdom/holy water \ wisdom/real fast nora's hair salon 3: shear disaster download \ wisdom/water \ wisdom/llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch \ wisdom/firefly
12:55:14 <b_jonas> `? water
12:55:14 <HackEgo> Water is a squishy substance that creeps along the floor and can suddenly fall from the heavens.
12:56:43 <b_jonas> `? napernyő
12:56:44 <HackEgo> napernyő? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:58:16 <b_jonas> `? vector
12:58:17 <HackEgo> vector? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:58:18 <b_jonas> `? diadal
12:58:19 <HackEgo> diadal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:58:46 <fizzie> The bread market here is vastly different from the one back in Finland, which is one of the things I miss. (Approximately nobody's selling proper rye bread, or Karelian pasties -- which I count in the bread category, even though it's arguable -- at any reasonable price.)
12:59:20 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, Hungary used to be about the best place to be if you like bread
12:59:39 <b_jonas> um, if you like to buy ready to eat bread at least, as opposed to making your own bread
13:00:07 <fizzie> Yes. My household is very much a bread importer.
13:00:27 <fizzie> Foodwise, I think bread and candy are the two main categories where moving here seems to have been a downgrade. (It's all very subjective, of course.)
13:00:44 <b_jonas> candy?
13:00:45 <b_jonas> hmm
13:01:44 <fizzie> No salty liquorice (salmiak, ammonium chloride) anywhere, for one thing.
13:02:16 <b_jonas> I don't like salty candy.
13:02:56 <fizzie> People from countries where that's a thing (I think mostly Finland and Sweden) keep bringing it to work, for the surprise/amusement factor, but too rarely.
13:04:06 <b_jonas> I've tried some in Sweden, when it was sold among normal sweet candy. It was between “eww, this doesn't taste good” and “pew, I can't even finish this stuff” depending on the type.
13:04:27 <b_jonas> The large variety in sweet candy was great though.
13:07:16 <b_jonas> But then, I believe any sweet candy or chocolate or similar long-lasting foodstuff that's available in Europe and that Hungarian people would want to eat shows up in shops in Hungary eventually, so we might have the same variety here in some years.
13:07:54 <b_jonas> We can now buy so many kinds of chocolate here, that if you travel to somewhere and want to bring chocolate home as a souvenir, it's not so easy to find one that's unique enough and can't be find here.
13:08:17 <b_jonas> Milk chocolate with rice is among what you can bring, but not for very long I think.
13:09:06 <b_jonas> Plus I keep hearing myths of Milka dark chocolate, but I've never seen it in real life, so I'm not sure it really exists.
13:09:24 <b_jonas> Hmm, it can be bought on amazon. Then it _probably_ exists.
13:09:56 <b_jonas> I hear I hear amazon.com is somewhat careful about not allowing to sell non-existant products.
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13:11:13 <b_jonas> `? palate
13:11:15 <HackEgo> palate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:14:55 <b_jonas> `learn Palate is usually a metaphor for a person's perferences about food or drink.
13:14:57 <HackEgo> Learned 'palate': Palate is usually a metaphor for a person's perferences about food or drink.
13:17:50 <fizzie> Oh, that's another thing that's missing here: Fazer chocolate.
13:19:55 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, I've brought some Fazer chocolate from Sweden. They're nice, I expect they might show up here soon, or at least some of it like the cream-filled chocolate stuff should.
13:20:31 <b_jonas> I've also brought Keks bars, which aren't bad, but I don't think that would be very popular here, because we have better alternatives when it comes to chocolate wafer bars.
13:22:37 <b_jonas> Plus I brought some Fisherman's Friends sugarless candy, actually from the UK I believe, which at the point wasn't yet sold here, but now they are selling it in a few places; plus I brought that local hard candy too, called, um, what was its name?
13:23:45 <b_jonas> Läkerol.
13:24:54 <b_jonas> I don't know if you have that in the UK.
13:37:50 <fizzie> I don't think I've seen. You can get it in Finland.
13:41:14 <fizzie> There's a somewhat similar originally very Finnish (now actually part of the same conglomerate as Läkerol, after the Cloetta-Leaf merger) thing called Sisu, which we tend to call "Gifu", due to the old-style font they use in the packaging: http://www.sisulla.fi/fi/etusivu/
13:41:52 <b_jonas> heh
13:45:31 <b_jonas> `? fisherman's friend
13:45:32 <b_jonas> `? keks
13:45:38 <HackEgo> fisherman's friend? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:45:38 <HackEgo> keks? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:45:39 <b_jonas> `? läkerol
13:45:40 <HackEgo> läkerol? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:45:43 <b_jonas> `? milka
13:45:45 <HackEgo> milka? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:45:46 <b_jonas> `? fazer
13:45:46 <HackEgo> fazer? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:45:47 <b_jonas> `? karl fazer
13:45:49 <HackEgo> karl fazer? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:45:51 <b_jonas> `? lindt
13:45:52 <HackEgo> lindt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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13:51:23 <fizzie> wisdom still has some catching-up until it beats Wikipedia in coverage. (Obviously the content quality level is already significantly higher. After all, *anyone* can edit Wikipedia.)
13:52:48 <b_jonas> there was one more chocolate brand I brought from Sweden that you can't buy here, but I don't recall what it was
13:53:02 <b_jonas> it wasn't Finnish like Fazer
13:53:04 <b_jonas> hmm
13:53:51 <b_jonas> oh, I got it:
13:53:53 <b_jonas> Marabou chocolate
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13:55:12 <Riviera> b_jonas: .hu? Try an Ikea.
13:55:51 <b_jonas> Riviera: yes, Ikea sells some strange foodstuffs you can't buy elsewhere
13:56:09 <Riviera> They sell Marabou chocolate in the ikeas here.
13:56:34 <Riviera> And hot dog party packs.
13:56:54 <Riviera> And. Hm. Furniture. 8)
13:56:56 <Taneb> b_jonas: do they sell lutefisk
13:57:09 <Taneb> I have a curiosity
13:57:22 <b_jonas> what's a lutefisk?
13:57:28 <b_jonas> I don't really know what they sell
13:57:45 <Taneb> b_jonas: fermented cod
13:58:00 <b_jonas> I haven't been int he ikeas for a while, and I haven't examined the food part in detail
13:58:30 <b_jonas> I know they sell some sort of crackers, as well as Swedish frozen meatballs, and the sauce and jam that goes with that.
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14:13:07 <fizzie> Taneb: I don't think they do. We were in one of the UK Ikeas a while ago, and they have some conventional Swedish fishstuffs (pickled herring, gravlax) but not lutefisk.
14:14:15 <fizzie> Although it seems to be a seasonal Christmas thing in some places.
14:16:43 <ais523> hmm, I think lutefisk became more popular because of Dungeons of Dredmor (which I don't play any more because it's balanced terribly, but which some people like)
14:16:49 <ais523> one of its slogans is "lutefisk for the lutefisk god"
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14:22:10 <Sgeo__> Has the UI of DCSS improved?
14:22:35 <ais523> Sgeo__: yes but it's still frustratingly inconsistent
14:22:57 <ais523> and has some extraneous features that I keep triggering by mistake (such as cursor-driven menus)
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15:07:05 <izabera> jim carrey is anti vax
15:07:37 <boily> izabellora. eh?
15:07:45 <izabera> helloily
15:07:59 <izabera> he posted pics of autist kids blaming vaccines and their families told him to remove them
15:08:03 <izabera> http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/jul/07/jim-carrey-apologises-tweet-child-photo-without-permssion-autism-vaccine
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15:37:48 <int-e> @metar KSFO
15:37:48 <lambdabot> KSFO 211456Z 29003KT 10SM FEW160 SCT200 09/08 A3025 RMK AO2 SLP244 T00890078 53006 $
15:37:58 <quintopia> helloily
15:41:16 <izabera> www.lamdu.org
15:41:35 <izabera> does this idea scale well past simple examples like sum (1..1000) ?
15:43:49 <boily> quinthellopia.
15:44:15 <boily> int-ello. westcoasting?
15:48:24 <fizzie> Sounds cold for KSFO.
15:49:40 <fizzie> Guess it's quite early.
15:50:42 <boily> @metar EGLL
15:50:42 <lambdabot> EGLL 211520Z AUTO 24022KT 9999 OVC015 14/11 Q1009 NOSIG
15:50:48 <boily> @metar KATL
15:50:48 <lambdabot> KATL 211524Z 23009KT 5SM -RA BR FEW009 SCT080 OVC090 14/13 A3013 RMK AO2 P0001 T01440128
15:50:51 <boily> @metar CYUL
15:50:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 211508Z 29008KT 3SM R24L/4500VP6000FT/U -SN FEW008 SCT014 OVC045 01/M01 A2990 RMK SF2SC2SC4 SLP127
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16:40:05 <halycon> Hi all, I'm exploring the Bernays-Tarski axiom system and wondering how SK combinator logic would be affected if Axiom 2 of implicational propositional calculus would be replaced with hypothetical syllogism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicational_propositional_calculus#The_Bernays.E2.80.93Tarski_axiom_system
16:40:23 <halycon> Specifically, I am wonder how (if possible) you can create a combinator from (P->Q)->((Q->R)->(P->R)) akin to S. I'm new to propositional logic, so forwarding me in a direction of tools/resources would be enough to get me started.
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16:57:27 <zzo38> The example given there is also using axiom 3 which is Peirce's law (call/cc).
17:01:07 <zzo38> Is your variant of SK system to including continuations?
17:01:45 <halycon> @ zzo38 Thanks :)
17:01:47 <halycon> No, I was going to try and exclude Pierce's law
17:02:38 <halycon> But I'm not sure how to prove / disprove this is possible, while still encoding constructive logic
17:02:58 <halycon> or at least the implicational fragment
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18:24:34 <b_jonas> You'd have to check the source code to tell for sure, or ask schmorp and/or elmex directly, although the latter might be difficult communication-wise.
18:24:41 <b_jonas> um
18:24:43 <b_jonas> ignore that line
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18:44:50 <\oren\> hmm maybe there should be a way to mark comment lines at the end rather than the beginning
18:44:56 <\oren\> like \\
18:45:08 <coppro> lol
18:45:20 <coppro> that's a line continuation you fool
18:45:41 <coppro> oh, uh, hth
18:45:42 <\oren\> well \ would be, but \\ is currently invalid in C
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18:46:17 <\oren\> so the point is, you could do
18:46:45 <coppro> no
18:46:47 <coppro> \\ is valid
18:47:13 <coppro> if the next character after the newline makes an escape sequence
18:48:07 <\oren\> well what about in the middle of aline
18:48:21 <coppro> it's still a valid escape for \
18:48:33 <coppro> hmm
18:48:44 <coppro> I shoudl add that to my mental index of pathological C cases
18:49:17 <\oren\> set the death flag \\ enemy.flag |= FLG_DEAD;
18:50:25 <b_jonas> oh,
18:50:27 <b_jonas> #d\
18:50:28 <b_jonas> ef\
18:50:30 <b_jonas> in\
18:50:33 <b_jonas> e \
18:50:41 <b_jonas> that was featured in one of the IOCCC entries I think
18:51:03 <pikhq> Needs more ??/
18:51:17 <b_jonas> ugh
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18:52:44 <\oren\> I like a<:i:>
18:53:09 <\oren\> it's a way to make your arrays sparkly
18:53:20 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes, that syntax gets even better in C++11
18:53:57 <b_jonas> which has additional tokization rules such that in some contexts it does not parse >> and <: as digraphs
18:54:36 <\oren\> my workplace has banned anything above C++03
18:54:54 <coppro> whyyy
18:54:56 <\oren\> due to lack of support on embedded systems
18:56:28 <\oren\> it seems most comilers for things like coffeemakers and refrigerators choke on advanced templates
18:56:44 <coppro> lol
18:56:53 <b_jonas> hmm, technically that's not true. the >> is not a tokizing rule, but a parsing rule.
18:57:19 <coppro> nowadays if your embedded systems compiler isn't just clang + llvm, you're Doing It Wrong
18:57:44 <b_jonas> \oren\: sucks to have to develop for those embedded thingies I guess
18:57:55 <coppro> b_jonas: the <: is, however
18:58:34 <\oren\> well it's not for those embedded things specifically, but it has to be protable to them. anyway this means we have lots of in-house versions of things from boost
18:58:42 <coppro> that I believe
18:59:07 <\oren\> because the compilers choke on boost
18:59:24 <b_jonas> \oren\: actually, many parts of boost work on lots of old compilers too
18:59:28 <b_jonas> not all libraries in boost, but many
19:00:21 <b_jonas> (and a few config macros can help when it doesn't)
19:00:23 <\oren\> maybe some of the inhouse stuff is just nih syndrome
19:00:30 <b_jonas> \oren\: sure
19:00:39 <b_jonas> \oren\: or some of it might precede the same thing appearing in boost
19:00:59 <\oren\> well we have three in-house programming languages as well
19:01:15 <\oren\> which compile into c++
19:01:30 <b_jonas> \oren\: is one of them QT?
19:01:35 <\oren\> no
19:01:51 <\oren\> one of them compiles into C++, Java and Javascript
19:02:04 <b_jonas> oh right, you wouldn't take QT in a house. it's not potty-trained.
19:02:13 <\oren\> lol
19:03:28 <\oren\> http://www.cod5.org/archive/s/salmon.html this is one of them
19:03:50 <\oren\> I think it was a pet project of the lead dev before he came to this company
19:04:10 <b_jonas> Not that we don't have... strange things at our workplace. Stuff that, after you learn about, you wish you've never met.
19:04:45 <b_jonas> Lots of old junk, and some new junk too.
19:05:01 <b_jonas> Things I don't dare to touch.
19:05:25 <b_jonas> Things only one person understands, and he's left the company years ago.
19:06:19 <\oren\> this salmon thing will become impossible to maintain if the chief architect ever leaves
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19:06:40 <b_jonas> exactly
19:06:55 <\oren\> and it's what our equivalent of makefiles is wirtten in
19:07:07 <\oren\> so D:
19:07:49 <\oren\> building your house on shifting sand, or whatever the parable was
19:08:31 <b_jonas> And it's not like I don't have such code either.
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19:09:37 <\oren\> i think a lot of companies have this sort of problem
19:10:25 <\oren\> although, if I learn to program in Salmon, I can take over the indispensibility
19:10:48 <b_jonas> Do you only have to learn to program in Salmon, or also learn how to maintain the compiler?
19:12:12 <\oren\> the compiler is written in C, and doesn't look too obfuscated
19:12:34 <\oren\> or is it an interpreter?
19:13:05 <b_jonas> Um, either. The implementation. Together with implementations of libraries used.
19:13:21 <\oren\> this guy doesn't use any libraries
19:13:51 <\oren\> I once found a bug in the parser, which is just a bunch of switches on char's
19:14:07 <\oren\> he didn't use lex/yacc
19:14:23 <b_jonas> you don't always need lex/yacc.
19:15:21 <\oren\> well, yeah but... it helps to prevent there being problems in the parser because things are checked for consistency
19:22:39 <b_jonas> `wisdom
19:22:51 <b_jonas> `wisdom
19:23:55 <int-e> . o O ( The fool will ask for wisdom all day. The wise man will bask in silence. )
19:24:01 <HackEgo> hyperbolic geometry/
19:24:01 <HackEgo> lambdabot/lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src.
19:35:30 <\oren\> `unidecode
19:35:35 <HackEgo> No output.
19:35:37 <\oren\> `unidecode 〿
19:35:38 <HackEgo> ​[U+303F IDEOGRAPHIC HALF FILL SPACE]
19:35:48 <\oren\> AUGH
19:35:57 <\oren\> IT'S HAF WIDT
19:37:35 <izabera> i lost my apache logs three days ago
19:37:46 <izabera> guess how many ip's used arin.ga since then
19:38:03 <\oren\> 50
19:38:08 <izabera> 106 :D
19:38:26 <\oren\> yay, I was within a order of magnitude
19:38:47 <b_jonas> huh?
19:39:55 <\oren\> > (log10 50) - (log10 106)
19:39:56 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘log10’Not in scope: ‘log10’
19:40:00 <\oren\> boo
19:40:18 <zzo38> A few things i3wm doesn't have (as far as I can tell), which is: * Set different color for tiled/floating windows * Configure mouse cursors for different circumstances, places, modes, and bars * Startup notification timeout set or always disable startup notification * Unicode setting on/off (only when core fonts are used; with Pango, force Unicode on always)
19:45:04 <int-e> > (logBase 2 50) - (logBase 2 106)
19:45:06 <lambdabot> -1.0840642647884744
20:19:20 <\oren\> > (logBase 10 50) - (logBase 10 106)
20:19:21 <lambdabot> -0.32633586092875144
20:19:39 <\oren\> see, within an order of magnitude
20:19:59 <\oren\> > 1024**(1/3)
20:20:00 <lambdabot> 10.079368399158984
20:20:37 <\oren\> that's "digital ten"
20:21:43 <\oren\> hard drive sizes should be expressed in base digital ten
20:23:37 <b_jonas> or in base 32
20:24:12 <\oren\> with digits @-_
20:24:34 <\oren\> er, @-^
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20:24:45 <b_jonas> no
20:24:58 <\oren\> A is 1, B is 2, etc.
20:25:49 <b_jonas> with digits 0-9A-V
20:26:39 <\oren\> bah, that's harder to code
20:28:56 <b_jonas> If only the sizes of devices were always given in bytes, rather than varying sector sizes without telling how large a sector is, that would be an improvement.
20:30:17 <\oren\> yes
20:30:37 <b_jonas> 512 bytes for typical hard disks and floppies, but 2048 (IIRC) for CDs, 256 for some lower capacity floppies, 1024 byte blocks for some unix utilities by default (like dd), and possibly more for some future hard disks.
20:31:30 <\oren\> and often 1000 bytes on packages
20:31:58 <olsner> and 4096 for SSDs and newer larger hard drives
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20:37:14 <\oren\> is there a way to have bash exec a command?
20:37:25 <b_jonas> \oren\: sure, there's an exec builtin
20:37:33 <\oren\> oh, good
20:38:32 <\oren\> I'm optimizing a bash script
20:39:03 -!- Opodeldoc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:40:45 <b_jonas> note that exec has two forms. with arguments, it execs. without arguments, it just applies the redirects destructively to the current bash process, without execing.
20:41:51 <b_jonas> ``` help exec
20:41:57 <HackEgo> exec: exec [-cl] [-a name] [command [arguments ...]] [redirection ...] \ Replace the shell with the given command. \ \ Execute COMMAND, replacing this shell with the specified program. \ ARGUMENTS become the arguments to COMMAND. If COMMAND is not specified, \ any redirections take effect in the current shell. \ \ Opt
20:43:10 <coppro> \oren\: worth reading: http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/2012/05/the-big-secret-banks-are-banks.html
20:46:58 <\oren\> ok, I read that. I don't think I understood it
20:48:20 <coppro> \oren\: basically people yelling about bailing banks out should understand what the government actually did
20:48:34 <coppro> granted, that one's written for Canada and the US situation was slightly different
20:48:42 <coppro> but the government jut offered the banks really good loans
20:48:56 <coppro> it wasn't a "bailout" in the sense of a giant grant
20:50:32 <\oren\> I think the problem is that that seems to be a reward given to the people who seem to be the perpetrators
20:51:55 <coppro> potentially
20:52:41 <\oren\> and I personally think that if you bail out banks everytime they take actions which cast people into poverty, that will encourage tham to do it more often
20:52:54 <coppro> it does help that our banks weren't responsible for the crisis the same way the US banks were
20:53:11 <\oren\> yes. the canadian banks did ok.
20:53:41 <coppro> the post writes about the question of what happens if they aren't supported by government loans, though
20:53:48 <coppro> and it's a good question
20:54:04 <coppro> no matter who's "responsible", the government *really* doesn't want a bank to default
20:55:03 <coppro> the consolidation of banks in the US is also worth caring about for that reason
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21:50:01 <oerjan> @messages-
21:50:01 <lambdabot> fizzie said 1d 5h 27m 50s ago: Oh, that's simpler than what I had -- didn't even think of testing A with the ]. But yes, something like that.
21:52:19 <boily> hellørjan.
21:53:18 <oerjan> hiloby.
21:54:49 <oerjan> !languages
21:54:56 <oerjan> !help languages
21:54:56 <EgoBot> ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
21:55:05 <oerjan> !userinterps
21:55:05 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf san
21:55:43 <oerjan> Gregor: the userinterps overfloweth tdnh
21:56:31 <oerjan> !show glogbot_ignore
21:56:31 <EgoBot> bf ,[.,]
21:56:49 <oerjan> !delinterp glogbot_ignore
21:56:49 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter glogbot_ignore deleted.
21:57:07 <oerjan> !show helloworld
21:57:07 <EgoBot> underload (Hello, world!)S
21:57:17 <oerjan> !show hello
21:57:17 <EgoBot> c char buf[1024]; int i; fgets(buf, 1024, stdin); for (i=0;buf[i];i++)buf[i]=(buf[i]=='\n')?'\0':buf[i]; if (!strcmp(buf, "h")) printf("Hello World\n"); else printf("Unknown command (%s) encountered\n", buf);
21:57:27 <oerjan> !delinterp helloworld
21:57:28 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter helloworld deleted.
21:57:31 <oerjan> !userinterps
21:57:32 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh s
21:57:40 <oerjan> still overflowing
21:58:06 <oerjan> !show postmodern_aoler
21:58:07 <EgoBot> sh postmodern | b1ff
21:58:17 <oerjan> !delinterp postmodern_aoler
21:58:17 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter postmodern_aoler deleted.
21:58:39 <oerjan> !show elmer
21:58:39 <EgoBot> perl for (<>) {lc; s/l(?!e\W)/w/g; s/\Ber|(?<!f)or\b/uh/g; s/ire\b/iyuh/g; s/wr\B/w/g; s/(?<![iou])r\B/w/gx; print}
21:58:43 <oerjan> !show fudd
21:58:44 <EgoBot> sh fudd
21:59:16 <oerjan> !elmer Let us test the rabbits
21:59:16 <EgoBot> Let us test the wabbits
21:59:25 <oerjan> !fudd Let us test the rabbits
21:59:25 <EgoBot> Wet us test de wabbits
21:59:42 <oerjan> !delinterp elmer
21:59:42 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter elmer deleted.
21:59:46 <oerjan> !userinterps
21:59:46 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird fudd google graph hello hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh shubshub3 shubtest shubt
22:00:00 <oerjan> there's no end to them is there
22:06:17 <boily> !rot47 My hovercraft is full of eels.
22:06:17 <EgoBot> ​|J 9@G6C4C27E :D 7F== @7 66=D]
22:07:03 <boily> !rot13 shatbg
22:07:04 <EgoBot> fungot
22:07:10 <boily> darn.
22:08:04 <oerjan> !show bypass_ignore
22:08:05 <EgoBot> sh cat
22:08:14 <oerjan> !delinterp bypass_ignore
22:08:15 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter bypass_ignore deleted.
22:08:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:08:27 <oerjan> !userinterps
22:08:27 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird fudd google graph hello hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh shubshub3 shubtest shubtest2 simplenam
22:08:36 <oerjan> !show shubtest
22:08:37 <EgoBot> python replace("?!?", "a")
22:08:41 <oerjan> !show shubtest2
22:08:42 <EgoBot> python print first
22:08:56 <oerjan> !delinterp shubtest
22:08:56 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter shubtest deleted.
22:09:02 <oerjan> !delinterp shubtest2
22:09:03 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter shubtest2 deleted.
22:09:15 <oerjan> !show shubshub3
22:09:16 <EgoBot> python print \
22:09:23 <oerjan> !delinterp shubshub3
22:09:23 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter shubshub3 deleted.
22:09:33 <oerjan> !userinterps
22:09:33 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird fudd google graph hello hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish te
22:09:59 <oerjan> !swedish swedish
22:09:59 <EgoBot> svedeesh
22:10:04 <oerjan> !swedish svedeesh
22:10:04 <EgoBot> sfedeesh
22:10:10 <oerjan> !swedish sfedeesh
22:10:10 <EgoBot> sffedeesh
22:10:18 <oerjan> !show sffedeesh
22:10:18 <EgoBot> sh chef | chef | chef | chef | fmt -w500
22:10:22 <oerjan> !show sfedeesh
22:10:23 <EgoBot> sh chef | chef | chef | fmt -w500
22:10:30 <oerjan> !show svedeesh
22:10:30 <EgoBot> sh chef | chef | fmt -w500
22:10:47 <oerjan> !delinterp svedeesh
22:10:47 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter svedeesh deleted.
22:10:50 <oerjan> !delinterp sfedeesh
22:10:50 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter sfedeesh deleted.
22:10:55 <oerjan> !delinterp sffedeesh
22:10:55 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter sffedeesh deleted.
22:11:04 <oerjan> !userinterps
22:11:04 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird fudd google graph hello hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp simplename slashes swedish tell tester tester123 valspeak
22:11:11 <oerjan> NO END
22:11:23 <oerjan> !show tester
22:11:23 <EgoBot> sh echo $!
22:11:25 <hppavilion[1]> I'm here
22:11:26 <oerjan> !show tester123
22:11:26 <EgoBot> sh echo $_
22:11:31 <oerjan> !delinterp tester
22:11:31 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter tester deleted.
22:11:33 <oerjan> !delinterp tester123
22:11:33 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter tester123 deleted.
22:11:38 <oerjan> !userinterps
22:11:38 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird fudd google graph hello hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp simplename slashes swedish tell valspeak vote wacro warez
22:11:41 <boily> hppavellon[1]. you are.
22:11:50 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I am
22:11:54 <hppavilion[1]> ahoily
22:12:06 <boily> !redneck My hovercraft is full of eels.
22:12:07 <EgoBot> Muh hovercraft is full uh eels.
22:12:19 <boily> !delinterp redneck
22:12:19 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter redneck deleted.
22:12:29 <boily> quiens.
22:12:38 <oerjan> !show vote
22:12:38 <EgoBot> c printf("Your vote has been registered.\n");
22:12:45 <oerjan> !delinterp vote
22:12:45 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter vote deleted.
22:12:51 <oerjan> !show wacro
22:12:54 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
22:13:15 <oerjan> argh
22:13:22 <boily> heh :D
22:14:05 <oerjan> !show warez
22:14:05 <EgoBot> sh warez
22:14:18 <oerjan> !warez testing
22:14:19 <EgoBot> 7e57Y]\[g
22:14:33 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I'm writing an EsO'Reilly book :)
22:14:44 <hppavilion[1]> boily: If you didn't get the memo
22:14:58 <oerjan> !show inc
22:14:58 <EgoBot> bf ,[+.,]
22:15:01 <oerjan> !show id
22:15:01 <EgoBot> sh cat
22:15:06 <oerjan> !delinterp id
22:15:07 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter id deleted.
22:15:11 <oerjan> !delinterp inc
22:15:11 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter inc deleted.
22:15:16 <oerjan> !userinterps
22:15:16 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird fudd google graph hello hug insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern prefixes python python2 reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp simplename slashes swedish tell valspeak wacro warez wc welcome welcome2
22:15:16 <boily> hppavilion[1]: I didn't get the memo. what is the cover animal?
22:15:31 <oerjan> dammit
22:15:37 <oerjan> !show wc
22:15:37 <EgoBot> sh text=`cat`; opts=`echo "$text" | sed 's/\( \|^\)[^-].*//'`; text=`echo "$text" | sed 's/.*\( \|^\)\([^-]\)/\2/'`; echo -n "$text" | wc $opts
22:15:47 <oerjan> !delinterp wc
22:15:47 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter wc deleted.
22:15:53 <oerjan> !show welcome
22:15:54 <EgoBot> sh xargs printf "%s: "; echo "Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)"
22:15:59 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Mad Cow Virus
22:16:00 <oerjan> !show welcome2
22:16:00 <EgoBot> sh interps/tell welcome2;# Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:16:17 <boily> hppavilion[1]: we're not mad here :P
22:16:28 <hppavilion[1]> boily: It's on "Learning Brainfuck and Derivatives", so I figured some sort of plague or invasive species
22:16:46 <hppavilion[1]> boily: And Mad Cow Virus was suggested
22:16:59 <oerjan> !welcome2 test
22:17:00 <EgoBot> ​/tmp/input.6273: line 1: interps/tell: No such file or directory
22:17:12 <oerjan> !delinterp welcome2
22:17:12 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter welcome2 deleted.
22:17:24 <oerjan> !show sadbf
22:17:24 <EgoBot> sadol :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@<pl(2?=#Cp"1+:#Mm%+#Mm1,3255?=#Cp"1-:#Mm?<-#Mm10,3254-#Mm1?=#Cp"1>:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1
22:17:37 <hppavilion[1]> boily: It's on brainfuck and some of the more useful derivatives- like weave.rb
22:18:11 <oerjan> !show map
22:18:12 <EgoBot> perl for(<>){s/\b.+?\b/map/g;print}
22:18:21 <oerjan> !delinterp map
22:18:21 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter map deleted.
22:18:51 <oerjan> it looks like someone's been attempting to put building blocks for a language in there and there's just no room for that.
22:19:15 <oerjan> !show python
22:19:15 <EgoBot> sh python
22:19:18 <oerjan> !show python2
22:19:19 <EgoBot> sh python
22:19:23 <oerjan> !delinterp python2
22:19:24 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter python2 deleted.
22:19:37 <oerjan> !show ruby_
22:19:37 <EgoBot> sh ruby
22:19:47 <oerjan> !ruby test
22:19:53 <oerjan> !ruby_ test
22:19:53 <EgoBot> ​/tmp/input.6664: line 1: ruby: command not found
22:20:01 <oerjan> !delinterp ruby_
22:20:01 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter ruby_ deleted.
22:20:04 <oerjan> !userinterps
22:20:05 <EgoBot> ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird fudd google graph hello hug insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern prefixes python reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp simplename slashes swedish tell valspeak wacro warez welcome yodawg
22:20:09 <oerjan> finally
22:20:55 -!- Treio has joined.
22:21:08 <oerjan> !show about
22:21:09 <EgoBot> underload (EgoBot is able to interpret Any language possible as long as you can code the interpreter for it Have Fun :D)S
22:21:22 <oerjan> hm k
22:21:35 <boily> OKAY
22:23:36 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: BrainHype hth
22:24:45 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: by "you" it means you hth
22:24:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, me?
22:24:58 <hppavilion[1]> Shit.
22:25:36 <oerjan> it's possible i broke some other interpreter in there if it depended on calling out via the interps/ directory. in theory.
22:25:50 <oerjan> !show bfbignum
22:25:52 <EgoBot> bf (sending via DCC)
22:26:39 <oerjan> !show plot
22:26:39 <EgoBot> sh echo ''; (echo -ne 'set terminal dumb\nplot '; cat) | gnuplot
22:26:50 <oerjan> !plot test
22:26:51 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/input.6930: line 1: gnuplot: command not found \ /bin/cat: write error: Broken pipe
22:26:56 <oerjan> !delinterp plot
22:26:56 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter plot deleted.
22:27:05 <oerjan> looked a bit too optimistic
22:27:22 <oerjan> !help languages
22:27:22 <EgoBot> ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
22:27:27 <oerjan> !python test
22:27:28 <EgoBot> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> \ NameError: name 'test' is not defined
22:27:48 <oerjan> !show graph
22:27:50 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
22:28:54 <oerjan> well that might work but i don't know the input syntax.
22:29:23 <oerjan> !show lperl
22:29:24 <EgoBot> perl $_=<>;s/{{(.*?)}}(?!})/$1/gee;print
22:29:47 <oerjan> !show lsh
22:29:47 <EgoBot> perl $_=<>;s/{{(.*?)}}(?!})/`$1`/ge;print
22:30:16 <oerjan> !show lg
22:30:16 <EgoBot> python print("This isn't ##crawl!")
22:30:23 <oerjan> !delinterp lg
22:30:23 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter lg deleted.
22:31:04 <oerjan> !lperl what does this do?
22:31:05 <EgoBot> what does this do?
22:31:35 <oerjan> !lperl what does this do?!
22:31:35 <EgoBot> what does this do?!
22:32:40 <oerjan> !lperl 2+2
22:32:40 <EgoBot> 2+2
22:32:59 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LIGATURE CHICKEN).
22:33:02 * oerjan no idea about that code
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22:41:05 <oerjan> `? select
22:41:14 <HackEgo> select is a very versatile construct: it waits for events, retrieves data from tables, creates a list from elements of an input list that satisfy a condition, a dropdown list element, an event for when selection changes, branches between multiple arms, conditional between two expressions, prints a text-based menu prompt in a loop, and more.
22:43:35 <\oren\> nuclear engines are OP
22:43:59 <\oren\> so much delta-v
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23:22:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46448&oldid=46345 * MDude * (+18)
23:23:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cryptoleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46449&oldid=45990 * MDude * (+18)
23:24:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BitBitJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46450&oldid=32445 * MDude * (+19)
23:25:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DJN OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46451&oldid=19059 * MDude * (+20)
23:25:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Subleq+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46452&oldid=33342 * MDude * (+20)
23:27:59 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:31:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:OISC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46453 * MDude * (+176) Created page with "One INstruction Set Computer: Languages which consist of exactly one instruction. Often low-level, with the intent of being usable as the instruction set of a proccessing unit."
23:42:31 -!- shikhin has changed nick to sortie.
23:42:33 -!- sortie has changed nick to shikhin.
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23:57:49 <oerjan> MDude: hi, have you read Esolang:Policy hth
23:57:55 <oerjan> afk
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