< 1457827668 657062 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Magic the Puzzling that says something like "Your upkeep is beginning; place your triggered abilities on the stack." and your opponent also has some things that trigger during your upkeep too? < 1457827683 776208 :jaboja64!~jaboja@ejp122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457827709 881193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I've never seen one. < 1457827720 747994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think the only Magic: The Puzzlings that I've seen have been yours. < 1457827748 318754 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not myself written one like that (yet) < 1457827761 658570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to make up one? < 1457827768 14299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1457827776 433563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean one Magic: the Puzzling in general, it doesn't necessarily have to be like that) < 1457827777 318739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :All your Magic: The Puzzlings have seemed way too complicated to me. < 1457827780 599268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: might be interesting to port 3SAT into Magic < 1457827786 764261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to know (or look up) so many cards. < 1457827790 174780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we could set Magic: the Puzzlings that had nothing to do with Magic, just maths < 1457827804 951798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the entirety of The Dark. < 1457827839 738859 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That is just one of them though, others name cards explicitly and some do not have so many < 1457827851 759913 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still a lot. < 1457827868 920319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the puzzle was presented as a picture that showed every card you need to know to solve it? < 1457827906 426402 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would do yes, if you can print it out, although having text file would also help < 1457827923 819632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even so, some puzzles that do have pictures do not actually show all of the cards, or contain obsolete text < 1457827968 843202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if it was a web page where you could mouseover a card name to see it. < 1457827975 281696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are pretty common. < 1457828003 438979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using a format that is design to be not too difficult to parse by computer, so they could be converted into other formats < 1457828030 320088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I did see at least one Magic: The Puzzling that wasn't yours. < 1457828053 793673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My puzzles 5 and 6 and 7 do not have as many cards as the others < 1457828112 940293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call that ability on a card that lets you discard it from your hand? < 1457828129 713557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, cycling. < 1457828163 970135 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cycling you can discard it and also draw a card < 1457828176 416602 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all ability to discard from your hand may be cycling though < 1457828191 885903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was looking for that specific one. < 1457828317 814091 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1457828551 52600 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps look at puzzle.5 and/or puzzle.6 and/or puzzle.7 and see if you can understand it < 1457828619 311209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should include a full URL. < 1457828659 392862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i zzo38:puzzle.5 < 1457828660 884533 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.5 < 1457828715 865328 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The others are in the same directory < 1457829909 877748 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why not use HTML? < 1457829965 757984 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do funky stuff like... < 1457830044 469228 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
Alice's hand:
< 1457831621 582633 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457832443 683737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that is another way yes, although I prefer to post as plain text. However conversion would be possible if wanted < 1457832645 810107 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that kind of HTML does make some sense. Not only can CSS (either included or user-defined) be used, but also allow to convert formats more easily by using the class names provided. < 1457833309 435689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it does mean it is require to parse HTML in order to make the conversion) < 1457835137 662033 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457835208 360174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457835809 973627 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457836506 835686 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask fizzie Holy monologue, Batman. <-- you're not secretly oklopol, are you? < 1457836507 6612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457836594 833363 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $'hi\nthere' < 1457836600 367543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457836627 791499 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi \ there < 1457836821 58932 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ac88:f162:c2af:741e JOIN :#esoteric < 1457836991 883443 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457837029 166517 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : theory/To be theory is to be like a theorem, but inferior. <-- . o O ( physicists might disagree on the "inferior" ) < 1457837049 320593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457837074 522709 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has such exquisite timing < 1457837324 862425 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457837396 787339 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boihly < 1457837449 945167 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan! < 1457837465 708307 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KROC < 1457837466 18645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KROC 130154Z 26004KT 10SM BKN250 11/M08 A3003 RMK AO2 SLP174 T01061078 < 1457837469 124035 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1457837469 257680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner asked 1d 2h 7m 37s ago: what does it mean to "expand int-e"? < 1457837491 36564 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hellolsner. to expand int-e's `wisdom entry < 1457837518 780369 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we're in Rochester for the weekend. there is much tile shuffling. < 1457837564 910699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea of a Magic: the Gathering card is one which alters the stipulation of the puzzle. (What strangeness!!! I wonder if extra rules might be needed to support such thing?) < 1457837723 321726 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: now i'll just have to guess which one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester < 1457837729 915452 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i suppose KROC is a hint) < 1457837738 5618 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :KROC is a good hint. < 1457837794 126143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia reveals it right away < 1457837827 295761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even the initial "K" indicates United States, so even if you do not look it up you might know that already) < 1457837838 423066 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1457837846 173899 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although most of the places are in the US < 1457837873 874232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are any of the places hard < 1457837923 831618 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: should i get the swatter < 1457838027 107459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: only if you're stuck between KROC and a hard place hth < 1457838054 573523 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits shachaf with the saucepan ===\__/ < 1457838066 561000 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figure the swatter was too soft for this < 1457838181 980400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i stuck between between a KROC and a DHAR EPLAC < 1457838201 693564 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't mapole shachaf; I'm travelling light. < 1457838211 858910 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHAR ES SALA'AM < 1457838488 538878 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<\oren\> if you have 4 cores, should you not tell it to have 4 threads? <-- that's what ghc recommends, although s/thread/capability/ because ghc has lightweight threads and calls the actual underlying OS ones something else < 1457838555 712983 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the proper voodoo number is n+1 for gcc and make. < 1457838659 925274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457838693 679474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, kernel panics are so annoying < 1457838909 6453 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are these the kernel panics triggered by yesterday's spacetime disruption < 1457838938 784371 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a disruption? < 1457838978 878785 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :around the time of the first mention of kernel panics < 1457838980 933625 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1457838994 769749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's triggered via plugging my laptop into my router < 1457838998 991138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not always < 1457839029 309194 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah a heisendisruption < 1457839099 720435 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like some weird timing issue < 1457839112 986762 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the error message in the kernel panic message? < 1457839141 491319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Attempted to kill init! < 1457839163 237353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there were so many errors appearing beforehand that it's possible that something was just overwriting random memory < 1457839188 403489 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then don't kill init. < 1457839188 536980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this thing has a manufacturer of 1, product of 2, serial number of 3, and a different serial number of 0123456789ABCDEF < 1457839201 761523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me think that someone put dummy data in the device strings < 1457839432 632873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the amount of error spam before that I have a suspicion that something was randomly corrupting kernel memory < 1457839459 905354 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://picat-lang.org/ I love this language < 1457839826 660279 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com QUIT :Quit: RICE CHICKEN < 1457840636 244317 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( they chose a less annoying waiting music today ) < 1457840655 598020 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :still room for improvement < 1457841635 728300 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :game 4 starting < 1457841868 440371 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :will he win at least one? < 1457841893 624416 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the big remaining question < 1457841973 433039 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the press conference after match 3 he said something on the lines of "this is a defeat for lee sedol, not for mankind" < 1457842045 442362 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :defiant forever! death to the undying! < 1457842189 581204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a defeat for Lee Sedol for that tournament anyways; not forever. The problem I have is if they do not mention enough details of the computers in use < 1457842222 435478 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they are copying the second game so far < 1457842449 671883 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :diverged < 1457842456 991288 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game with complete information (such as Go), I would expect theoretically a sufficiently powerful computer can win (unless a perfect strategy would force the other player to win or draw). Games such as Kriegspiel chess do not have complete information. < 1457842526 969662 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone on ChessVariants mentioned something very silly, which is to use the "Swizzelstick" rule: You must touch your nose while moving the pieces, and you must urinate over your opponent's pieces if you win, otherwise it doesn't count. < 1457842599 692247 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways "theoretically a sufficiently powerful computer" doesn't necessarily mean that it is, and even if it isn't doesn't necessarily mean the computer program will lose either. < 1457842640 293737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of these things please? < 1457842692 603890 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you asking serious opinions on the swizzlestick thing? < 1457842699 470175 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"eww" < 1457842714 147000 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not on that, I mean in general < 1457842761 672814 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean about game vs computer programs in general, such as chess and Go and so on. < 1457842806 437975 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have sufficiently powerful computers that can analyze all the possible moves in go to a decent depth < 1457842834 49316 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think generalized Go is something like EXPTIME-complete, so perfect play might be intractable. < 1457842934 395317 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know there is not sufficiently powerful computers, and probably would be too difficult to make up such a computer anyways (you can easily get into limits by laws of physics too I suppose). < 1457842956 134273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also by "generalized Go" what generalizations do you mean? < 1457842987 158289 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :larger boards < 1457843001 780062 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK < 1457843007 908759 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly larger amount of players? < 1457843094 306542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing is consider what significant differences (if any) when the board size is odd than when it is even < 1457843176 187831 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's entirely unreasonable, obviously your chi can't flow on an even board < 1457843318 222512 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether or not your chi can flow on the board does not affect the rules of the game though, isn't it? < 1457843330 261807 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:O outrage < 1457843574 405105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: B Nomic ran a "political go" for a while < 1457843586 468269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where players could become allies which meant their stones counted as the same colour for the purpose of capturing < 1457843588 932588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was multiplayer) < 1457843599 192863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there was a limit on alliances < 1457843616 726361 :treaki_!~treaki@p54BF27F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457843650 203308 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, one color go < 1457843705 261399 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have only one colour of stones then you must play on all points in any order and then once it is full, you must remove all of the stones from the game. < 1457843726 788096 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://senseis.xmp.net/?OneColourGo is something different though < 1457843752 76479 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you've taken away the option to pass? < 1457843785 447785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the optimal strategy is to play one stone then pass twice < 1457843815 82573 :treaki__!~treaki@p54BF2DBE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457843816 493489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and claim the entire board as territory < 1457843818 683921 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is just something by the same name anyways < 1457843822 465659 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes of course < 1457843908 30868 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "One Colour Go" mentioned on Sensei's Library is really you must use physically the same colours for both player just to confuse you as far as I understand it does not affect the rules of the game (although fouls might become more common, and you have to figure out how to deal with it; if you use a computer then the computer resolves it automatically) < 1457843991 187355 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :like non-flagging minesweeper < 1457844016 15530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think speedruns play non-flagging < 1457844019 831312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the time it takes to click the button < 1457844075 702859 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Yes I suppose it is a similar thing < 1457844086 915848 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although then you don't have to worry about fouls < 1457844107 6230 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just mean, you cannot annotate the game during the play < 1457844194 83206 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly if you play minesweeper with scratching cards it might be more difficult to mark where you believe are the bombs too, although maybe it depend what kind of pencil you use < 1457844357 854274 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of pencil are you going to use? < 1457844695 221478 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457844726 548053 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you could make or break alliances at any time? < 1457844948 135265 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you might cooperate with someone to capture some stones, and then they stab you in the back to get that territory < 1457845082 250689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes get a kernel panic when switching the printer on or off < 1457845175 70090 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never gotten a kernel panic except for my stupid attempt at a kernel module < 1457845233 177205 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, when loaded, accidentally overwrote something important < 1457845416 870256 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would go work on a unbounded field? < 1457845424 718360 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as a torus < 1457845565 744083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: oh you could definitely break alliances any time < 1457845573 28410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need a restriction on making them though < 1457845708 483847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Which kernel? < 1457845715 222021 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have another idea but it will take some text to explain so I'll put it in my website after I figre it out. < 1457845802 954385 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Is 3.2.0-87-generic x86_64 a kernel version number? < 1457845870 482356 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now published version 1 of the JavaScript Xlib package (called "remote-xlib") and also atarted to make another package to provide widgets for use with it < 1457845891 900729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Linux, then. < 1457845909 480873 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is Linux < 1457846969 872203 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this sound so far http://www.orenwatson.be/ungriddedgo.htm < 1457847032 391726 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's go on a board with no grid < 1457847486 159730 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm wondering what the correct radius of a liberty is < 1457847572 965799 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457847586 115441 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 0.7 or so < 1457848177 874680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/882147 – someone is seriously arguing that it's OK if a kernel feature sometimes silently doesn't work, reporting success, because programs should be prepared for that situation < 1457848213 808718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their reasoning is that that's what the kernel does < 1457848221 243779 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1457848236 408978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else said that that's clearly a kernel bug as it doesn't match the docs, and they said the docs should be fixed < 1457848267 205651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when someone else said that they fix the kernel to match the docs as they're closer to the intention, the original person suggested changing both (!) < 1457848280 595899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may well be trolling at this point, but it's pretty creative < 1457848333 741508 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrgh i hite whoever that guy it < 1457848340 314575 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hate *is < 1457848388 439677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interface in question is inotify, and the bug in question is tail -f not working < 1457848402 475720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that tail already has an undocumented workaround, spelled "---disable-inotify" < 1457848457 293361 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :see this kind of person is why we need Linus and his FUCK YOUs < 1457848464 510804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this naming convention < 1457848531 761683 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple -? < 1457848535 830415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457848565 289468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, someone arguing with the user brought up the hypothetical of "what if select() has a bug" to which the response was "patch every application using select() with a check against the kernel version" < 1457848579 467833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the alternative "give the kernels in question a database of select-using applications so that it can patch it" < 1457848587 872994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extra - is borrowed from CSS, I'm sure. < 1457848588 424992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much everything up to that point was plausible stupidity < 1457848604 47665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that alternative, though, is clearly trolling < 1457848620 788112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: aha < 1457848631 887906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was parsing it as (---))disable-inotify < 1457848637 187796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* (---)disable-inotify < 1457848643 567586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're parsing it as (--)(-disable-inotify)? < 1457848645 727152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1457848690 745638 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :several programs have hidden options with 3 dashes < 1457848721 133547 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` factor ---debug 10 # first example that comes to mind < 1457848729 72936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's how I was trying to make sense of the triple -. < 1457848731 691744 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :factor: unrecognized option '---debug' \ Try `factor --help' for more information. < 1457848736 182847 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1457848741 434497 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you HackEgo < 1457848745 520736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that factor option is really hidden. < 1457848751 473586 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor ---debug 10 < 1457848753 533570 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :[using single-precision arithmetic] 10: 2 5 < 1457848797 283770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does factor handle >64bit numbers (at all | in reasonable time) yet? < 1457848821 94018 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457848830 997535 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pollard rho < 1457848835 101912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-__gt__bignum,math.html hth < 1457848841 198937 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it works better if there are several smaller factors < 1457848872 466867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: factor(1), not factor the programming language < 1457848888 224131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sorts of programming languages can you factor? < 1457848900 739928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 1000000000000 < 1457848902 320688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000000000000: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 < 1457848914 886651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I assume that was intended as a joke, but it's arguably an interesting question < 1457848925 524724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was meant halfway in between. < 1457848926 744672 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's... < 64 bits < 1457848927 247468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C factors into the preprocessor and rest of the compiler, I guess? < 1457848934 188274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: err, good point < 1457848936 556879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's > 32 < 1457848947 850865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a sense in which you multiply programming languages? < 1457848949 387376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 1000000000000000000000000 < 1457848950 898308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000000000000000000000000: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 < 1457848958 326636 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with something less stupid... < 1457848960 128317 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offense < 1457848981 567277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you interpret programming languages as being defined by their compilers, then multiplication could be compiler composition < 1457848982 436879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: that seems kind of rude, "no offense" or not < 1457848998 314918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you factor regular languages? < 1457849001 157049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: it worked for my purpose, which was seeing if factor ran quickly on a bignum with a lot of small factors < 1457849012 146008 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time factor $(tr -dc 0-9 < /dev/urandom | head -c 40) < 1457849014 596689 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :2352950823555604190942608370577849550714: 2 13 23 1291 4210103 723923547371247021321949091 < 1457849016 609871 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :real: 0m0.034s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.027s < 1457849053 187990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's one way to produce a random number… < 1457849055 450582 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally the only test that's more meaningless is to test how fast it can factor 2^n < 1457849075 13937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I would have done that but it's harder to spell < 1457849090 809808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just checking to see if it could parse the number /at all/ < 1457849096 225365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a programming language is defined by a compiler, what's an interpreter? A special sort of compiler? < 1457849099 401810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this was inspired by the mention of "single precision arithmetic" < 1457849123 37105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: compiles into user interactions, I guess < 1457849123 785164 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's backed by gmp so that's handled decently < 1457849132 794747 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :pollard rho doesn't really scale that well tho < 1457849200 473250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is it really compiling if it compiles a bit at a time? < 1457849302 67887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you've got me trying to work out how to write a lazy compiler :-) < 1457849329 80755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A JIT? < 1457849357 954794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a JIT compiler it's reasonable to define languages that compile into infinite programs. < 1457849382 349435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JITting sections would make sense, and probably be required < 1457849389 939789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you parse an infinite program, though? < 1457849395 867190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The output is infinite, not the input. < 1457849403 707739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it'd need to be specified as an AST rather than as a sequence of bytes < 1457849420 67846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of compiling programs with higher-rank polymorphism by monomorphizing. < 1457849437 572840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly in the case of non-regular data types? < 1457849476 923767 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say that I don't like infinite programs. But of course the output of a compiler is also a program. < 1457849629 48658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there some way in Haskell to pattern-match on a data structure only if it's already been forced (and thus its constructor is available)? < 1457849633 167602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of "nonforcing match"? < 1457849659 275070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about how you'd do optimizations on an infinite AST < 1457849708 348681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in Report Haskell, but you can do it in GHC. < 1457849736 252386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1457849746 409051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm not sure. < 1457850239 441370 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457850297 220525 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457851127 965763 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can certainly do it with false negatives. < 1457851146 407603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are false negatives? < 1457851194 943475 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might think something isn't evaluated when it is. < 1457851219 237064 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457851252 217605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1457851267 688060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise "false negative" was the phrase in that context < 1457851285 54760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than 100% false negatives? < 1457851308 675420 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's not the phrase. < 1457851409 774521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phrases "false positive" and "false negative" are scow. < 1457852174 978816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lee sedol in overtime, alphago with over an hour left < 1457852189 170543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them has been using time inefficiently, it's unclear which < 1457852412 350670 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457853087 393846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I think alphago got horizoned < 1457853096 250508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's adding stones to a dead group < 1457853165 577376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, that move it just played is clearly, objectively bad and it is obvious to a go player of pretty much nay skill level < 1457853327 896966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it's probably not just me missing something obvious as the 9p commentator agrees) < 1457854026 647583 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1457854310 20950 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457854790 658522 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457855497 833859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1457855521 823506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the commentators don't seem to know about the horizon effect < 1457855521 957260 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: whoa? < 1457855536 153130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer resigned < 1457855541 698685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a perfectly good description of the move at T11 (S11 on the commentator's board, which is misnumbered) < 1457855542 477155 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the horizon effect? < 1457855550 917057 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that's what someone said in another channel? < 1457855555 967971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's inexplicable otherwise < 1457855557 792406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: still playing < 1457855566 948561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: basically if you see an impending large loss in your future < 1457855568 209724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, bad information < 1457855572 268329 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, they just discussed when it would resign < 1457855573 819160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play a series of forcing moves to push it further back < 1457855581 827741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if those moves are losing in their own right < 1457855582 687406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't have audio on hth < 1457855591 28573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it's out of the range that your evaluation function looks like < 1457855594 32488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*looks at < 1457855605 704535 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm < 1457855611 87984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a common issue with tree search AIs < 1457855633 85671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's believed to have caused Deep Blue to draw a won a game in one of its famous matches against Kasparov) < 1457855682 451269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the move at T11 forced Lee Sedol to play at S10; it was perfectly forcing < 1457855687 128035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just obviously loses one stone for no benefit < 1457855823 329023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Alphago was looking at a -16 loss around then, which is large but not necessarily gamelosing < 1457855832 851593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, -14, I miscounted < 1457856285 600419 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm now he says it's close < 1457856379 268792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alphago was commonly believed to be winning before it went haywire < 1457856385 656955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's probably losing < 1457858186 406193 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that A8 move looks like another case? < 1457858263 787278 :haavard_!freebsd@haavard.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1457858334 248659 :sewilton!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mxhlmzcmtbyurkwl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457858334 609686 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457858334 742979 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457858334 743056 :haavardp!freebsd@haavard.me QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457858337 484340 :sewilton_!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ryauxnyxmedyucdr JOIN :#esoteric < 1457858343 636758 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457858364 394954 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1457858507 461674 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: redmond seems to be recognizing the effect but he's just calling them forcing moves < 1457858587 208841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he's realised that alphago is playing forcing moves but not why < 1457858601 9004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a response to realising that your evaluation of the position was too optimistic) < 1457858672 768188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1457858683 286019 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1457858690 928182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alphago resigned < 1457859189 708853 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ac88:f162:c2af:741e QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457859806 797388 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-1 < 1457859822 848347 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems AlphaGo isn't unbeatable < 1457860055 442427 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457860269 433236 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1457860475 448265 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :cospiracy theory time: they lost on purpose < 1457860506 713076 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :lee is almost a national hero and they were humiliating him too much < 1457862297 286408 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ac88:f162:c2af:741e JOIN :#esoteric < 1457862347 13152 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457863075 826128 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: isn't it good to humiliate another nation's hero? < 1457863101 24237 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :alphago is supposedly a british computer < 1457863143 342423 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, do you want all the Brits to be driven out of South Korea < 1457863163 978243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it good? < 1457863182 806039 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good if the other nation is your nation's enemy < 1457863185 909402 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not otherwise < 1457863200 718307 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it adds to your natin's hero's prestige to have beaten someone else's < 1457865008 341081 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457865402 838205 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1457866980 354497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: In puzzle.6, how is Artificial Evolution being used? < 1457867260 473481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's the goal? < 1457868292 489728 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457868668 995454 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457868838 503607 :boily!~alexandre@rrcs-198-179-121-100.nys.biz.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1457869335 402659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1457869679 268775 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm late in the party and still I'm impressed of Lee's outcome < 1457869697 948491 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the best thing to both Lee and Google < 1457869760 16448 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-114-166.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457871664 473222 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457871784 459336 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :spectators too < 1457871953 589026 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad we got to see that Alphago still displays classical MC tree search weaknesses (a horizon effect, essentially, leading to ludicruous moves when the AI is losing) < 1457872002 373197 :jaboja!~jaboja@emo25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457872190 296314 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you glad? < 1457872224 129222 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it something like "there's still a chance for humans" or...? < 1457872250 370926 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I was wondering whether the Alphago team had somehow solved this problem... now I know they didn't. < 1457872266 518435 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... why are you glad? < 1457872290 539271 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find out if they solved it I guess < 1457872294 807523 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, did you see the "we got to see" part of what I wrote? < 1457872348 138869 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457872351 10433 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm interested in Go AI progress ... as an observer. So yeah, what oren said. < 1457872357 907014 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like good news < 1457872398 396133 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like knowing where we stand. < 1457872472 593241 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it hadn't done this while behind that would also have made me happy. But it takes a really strong player (or some artificial setup; I'm sure the Alphago team itself has also experimented with positions where Alphago would've been behind) to get Alphago into that position. < 1457872475 615538 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-081-022.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457872552 615349 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-004-081-022.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de NICK :Melvar < 1457872553 549197 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: The thing that annoys me about your question, btw, is that I initially wrote "I'm glad to see" and realized that this isn't quite what I meant. So I rephrased that part... and then you start asking why I'm glad :-( < 1457872574 700909 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1457872701 288505 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I'm sorry that I made you apologize. Oh well, communication is hard. < 1457872823 129148 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course I'm also glad to see the human win, but that's on a much more emotional level, not really connected to my scientific curiosity. < 1457875246 240638 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh heh, humans… you think you're better because you make something you think are the right moves when you're already losing < 1457875309 298007 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think those moves are somehow better or more elegant or something, you should have put that in the rules so we get more points for a match played elegantly, or something, rather than complaining that the bots don't do something you didn't ask for. < 1457875373 340271 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, congrats to both players. < 1457875450 235964 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you're not serious about the "humans" remark, right < 1457875508 928210 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad I don't know Go well. ;d < 1457875510 56441 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D* < 1457875846 85219 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The thing is, it's a situation where there are no "right moves" anymore; every move is losing. In such a situation, humans try to make the game more complicated (increase the variance of the likely outcomes), as far as it's possible without losing points; they bank on opponent's mistakes (which tend to be merely human)... Alphago apparently has not learned to do that; it assumes an... < 1457875852 80376 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :...almost perfect opponent, where this kind of strategy would just prolong the inevitable. < 1457875964 567453 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's a solvable problem (and one that a commercial Go program will have to solve; people will want to take handicaps against it, and then the computer will be behind for most of the game... There are some known approaches too, "dynamic komi" being perhaps the most promising) < 1457876031 871616 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: maybe, but how much of that works in practice against such a strong player as Li Sedol? < 1457876072 808847 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultimately one needs some measure of how hard an overplay (technically a mistake, but one that is hard to refute, only incurs a small loss if refuted and is profitable otherwise) is to refute. < 1457876116 816977 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Well, the endgame is hard... it's easy to lose half a point here, half a point there, when moves still have sizes of 5 points an more. < 1457876400 853603 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from what I've read the game was still quite close 20-30 moves before Alphago resigned; around that point it started to play forcing moves that lose points. < 1457877384 587972 :jaboja!~jaboja@emo25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457877778 459937 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-114-166.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457877891 779759 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457880780 214053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bernard Madoff wants to give me 100 million euros. < 1457880784 812931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He regrets his crimes and wants my assistance in giving this money away to charity. < 1457880789 429833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's "rightly convinced that somebody of your statue [sic] will not stoop so low to derail in this kind of social and humanitarian task --". < 1457880793 453083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't even aware I had a statue. < 1457880806 378349 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-penyoxzvnnkwilpu QUIT :Excess Flood < 1457880832 792249 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you have a coin < 1457880839 87084 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't you have a statue as well? < 1457880854 225479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. And statues usually don't stoop, if they're well made. < 1457880937 342535 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-prhhtehkiicvmety JOIN :#esoteric < 1457880997 79836 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-103-227-154.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457881030 359968 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457881076 181433 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess you could put a statue on track to derail a train < 1457882439 199612 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I read someone's idea for ungridded Go once. In that version, two stones have to actually touch in order to be connected. A liberty is any spot where you could put a connected stone. < 1457882505 403274 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: heh. someone did mention go on grids other than a plain rectangular grid, but I haven't heared of an ungridded one yet. < 1457882511 139165 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoOnABoardWithoutLines < 1457882520 766556 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, wait, I might even have a link < 1457882592 559329 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the whole http://senseis.xmp.net/?Variants page... some links are broken though < 1457882619 836054 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular the one on http://senseis.xmp.net/?GeneralGraphGo :-( < 1457882665 230400 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no < 1457882773 679053 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457883418 202406 :carado!~carado@savhon.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457883495 925463 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-103-227-154.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457883672 554137 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, looks like people like Bridge Go: http://senseis.xmp.net/?BridgeGo < 1457884018 681716 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm at my parents' place for the Easter break < 1457884025 553389 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot one or two things < 1457884031 782339 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as my phone charger < 1457884048 498650 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the doohickey to get my desktop to connect to wi-fi < 1457884154 562193 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Borrow a phone charger from them < 1457884210 59648 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :Their < 1457884223 947303 :Their!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1457884454 213525 :carado!~carado@savhon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1457884494 857542 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that solves one of the issues < 1457884779 96554 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait. Easter break? But Easter is more than two weeks away, isn't it? < 1457884872 703722 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I get a month off < 1457884907 836740 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: minus the "more than"? (unless you insist on waiting until Monday) < 1457884976 211355 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um yes, sorry, exactly two weeks away < 1457885749 247380 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ac88:f162:c2af:741e QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457886026 346979 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457886330 567800 :jaboja!~jaboja@emo25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457886753 754154 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` seq 10 | head ---presume-input-pipe -c -5 < 1457886766 885066 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 < 1457886828 303265 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- is a thing? < 1457886835 359463 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :for secret options < 1457886844 373499 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1457886847 955573 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` seq 10 | head ---presume-input-pipe ---disable-inotify -1 < 1457886849 669320 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :head: unrecognized option '---disable-inotify' \ Try `head --help' for more information. < 1457886864 205353 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` seq 10 | tail ---presume-input-pipe ---disable-inotify -1 < 1457886865 83423 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail: option used in invalid context -- 1 < 1457886872 860697 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` seq 10 | tail ---presume-input-pipe ---disable-inotify -f < 1457886875 34889 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 \ 10 < 1457886917 629960 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` touch x; rm ---presume-input-tty xc < 1457886919 570223 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` touch x; rm ---presume-input-tty x < 1457886922 144737 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `xc': No such file or directory < 1457886925 946790 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457887077 131302 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, which level are you stuck on? < 1457888057 705556 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457888563 163951 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457889083 899819 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1457889095 61043 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/rui314/3b66fe949b5ee3b21120 < 1457889182 638870 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://raw.githubusercontent.com/shinh/bflisp/master/bflisp.bf < 1457889268 27354 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457889750 762530 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice :) < 1457889815 73574 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large a subset of c does it compile? < 1457889881 231639 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure you can find the answer by reading the source < 1457890297 581460 :jaboja!~jaboja@emo25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457890504 332468 :gremlins!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457890536 316466 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457891155 330148 :jaboja!~jaboja@emo25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457891356 959652 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1457892019 582415 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457892039 250086 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457892050 675490 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1457892113 380159 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457892243 982508 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457892256 502910 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/senokay/status/709077093192077312 I'm not really good at bc. < 1457892261 640827 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc* < 1457892364 858039 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D cool < 1457892369 533284 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it computes pi? < 1457894624 954017 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ppsvsztqnbtummeh QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457894858 331840 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457894925 321142 :gremlins!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457894940 315294 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457895591 842011 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gktqckwcgddlsteg JOIN :#esoteric < 1457895982 559444 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457897015 561354 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you have values that are static and some that aren't? < 1457897015 822356 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: another t-shirt worthy phrase from rodgerthegreat x-d a language based on actual music. where the wiki files go < 1457897327 327294 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457897782 135825 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what does your t-shirt say? < 1457897782 269419 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: should i do that? < 1457897824 956122 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot < 1457897825 367685 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no. you cannot solve the halting problem... and a political career ruined by the fact that we're whining about ook! on irc is that it's overloaded as the extension for scheme files written in elisp < 1457897844 769947 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. < 1457897867 157361 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of a political career being ruined by the fact that we're whining about ook! on irc. < 1457897926 527742 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe any one of us could've had a political career if it wasn't for this channel < 1457897959 493545 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may be right. So thanks #esoteric for being here! < 1457897979 400916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot for president < 1457897979 534166 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: where do you want the number of < 1457898032 844167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what are your views on taxes < 1457898032 978130 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh well... < 1457898064 450199 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I concur < 1457898064 687609 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: when your projects are there, o fnord. eihän siitä silloin oo mitää fnord." < 1457898085 383731 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: but I suspect that's going too far < 1457898085 769040 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's just a fnord sexpr to html converter... but right now i'm preoccupied with the oracle of bacon fat and bacon strips? yum. fnord saa fnord fnord verkkotunnuksia.', oh yes. < 1457898100 710379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1457898100 843848 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1457898130 676307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: en puhu suomea < 1457898130 994090 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: strange layout. care about one thing. why isn't it just a different way no. i keep thinking of mold for some reason, i decided to write a mandelbrot for some esolang < 1457898131 635474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ok, so you don't want to talk about healthcare. in that case, what are your views about the government interfering with the education system? < 1457898131 968170 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh i must've seen her before then. all the standard stuff that pc-select does i have a non-vector version at my homepage is fnord lg n) < 1457898276 776027 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: may the fnord be with you... < 1457898277 292698 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: in poland, comics are free to implement it? seat of their pants?) those few hours the basement computer class was open for all. i cannot take this imperative madness, i have written an infix-to-prefix converter but it isnt what he though < 1457898345 781744 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :random noise gets boring < 1457898356 284646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: who do you think should be the next us supreme court justice twh < 1457898356 418412 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you ask me < 1457898362 204017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i am asking you < 1457898362 337380 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yep. black lung." < 1457899869 699357 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1457900171 167670 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457900478 590412 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457900552 662370 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1457900746 956758 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero < 1457900885 655606 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457901193 41384 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1457901603 341928 :jaboja!~jaboja@emo25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457902250 971494 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457903010 17283 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :While the bug I have reported in SQLite has been fixed in the code repository much earlier than when 3.11.0 was released, it seem that the change is not merged into the released version until 3.12.0 though. Do you know why? < 1457903034 692144 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Did you see my question above? < 1457903075 618325 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, can you repeat please? < 1457903095 385412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: In puzzle.6, how is Artificial Evolution being used? < 1457903115 875403 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, it is on the stack. < 1457903124 393025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What choices are being made? < 1457903135 532886 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The choices aren't made until it resolves. < 1457903141 906959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1457903146 91952 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the target is Airdrop Condor. < 1457903152 788041 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457903154 853982 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1457903158 118918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then. < 1457903159 837451 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At Disney World. < 1457903160 47887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the goal? < 1457903171 55852 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, not yet, but I'm in Orlando) < 1457903183 455547 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to guarantee you can win; it is the default stipulation. < 1457903195 635207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See the Codex if this part is unclear) < 1457903195 768969 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm going to Universal Studios /then/ DW) < 1457903203 162015 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's next? Andlanda, GA? < 1457903225 891263 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, here's an idea for a board game < 1457903227 184446 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enigma < 1457903256 687152 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a digital board game < 1457903283 27868 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A board game where one side is the Axis, the other side is the Allies. The Axis creates encryption using the mechanics of the game, the Allies have to crack it < 1457903302 174062 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went there last summer, too. Epcot was neat < 1457903309 86474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they have to crack each other's encryptions? < 1457903338 112762 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best part is, you don't /know/ when the allies crack it, you have to calculate and make a new encryption when they do. But there's something that gives you an aversion to making a new code, so you have to be sure it's cracked < 1457903343 353918 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's asymmetric < 1457903362 25025 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest of the game is just battleship+risk < 1457903378 884390 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd have to be digitized for optimal effect < 1457903398 633978 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: But the Enigma cipher was symmetric. < 1457903540 235231 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, I mean the game is asymmetric < 1457903565 169216 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: And the cypher you use can be symmetric, or it can be asymmetric. Part of the game is making your own cypter < 1457903567 995719 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea fro the game < 1457903568 874016 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cypher < 1457903575 881266 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: My idea? < 1457903581 995606 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1457903602 519175 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: Yay! Of course, knowing me, I'll get bored of it in 3 days and never think about it again :/ < 1457903642 125866 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :im the same :) < 1457903692 491222 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: I'm still thinking about how to balance cyphers though; my first thought is to make it unbounded < 1457903709 657536 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I do that, there's nothing to prevent someone from implementing PGP at game startup < 1457903718 506296 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus winning automatically < 1457903735 553460 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could limite the compuutation people can do somehow < 1457903748 718244 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: Yeah, duh xD < 1457903781 927641 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: I was thinking that I make the encryption some sort of pseudo-ASM and require (a) you unlock commands and (b) every block costs you < 1457903791 39715 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(block = line) < 1457903812 760822 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: But not a pure ASM, as that's complicated < 1457903828 728322 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would instead use an ASM with access to JSON data < 1457903855 978090 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: My favourite part of the game is that you're making actual encryption in it :) < 1457903874 21597 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most games would start with a caearian cypher and slowly escalate into something hideous < 1457903932 354507 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: I'm thinking that, in the game, you manufacture "objects" that you can "protect" < 1457903944 351997 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more protected an object, the harder it is to steal < 1457903947 791598 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :like eys? < 1457903948 919166 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :keys < 1457903965 431140 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: Not quite; this is about protecting the keys, actually < 1457904003 581088 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best strategy is to have a "codebook" object (which is really just some JSON or an algorithm) and put as much protection as you can into it, because once the allies get their hands on both a device and a codebook, you're screwed < 1457904081 123965 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: The key catalog (the thing that tells units how to encrypt/decrypt a message for each day) (which is not strictly necessary, but is advised) is an object < 1457904109 232527 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you "protect" it, it gets harder for your enemies to obtain a copy of it < 1457904162 29525 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You don't need a key catalog, but if you don't use one you're pretty much just using a fixed encryption that'll get cracked the moment they get a copy) < 1457904199 743023 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: There will /also/ be tendency for error that occurs, with frequency proportional (or otherwise related) to code complexity < 1457904255 890081 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tendency for error especially comes in any time you call random in your units. They use a very lopsided randomization algorithm. < 1457904270 785755 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's advised you keep all randomization at the toplevel < 1457904959 330224 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: One of the best strategies in the game is to send the occasional junk transmission xD < 1457905012 878204 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's clever < 1457905285 209254 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: I just found that Scotch quality = 1/malts < 1457905331 907810 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: I think Clockwork would be a fun language < 1457905354 857975 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Clockwork? < 1457905745 849427 :MoALTz_!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457905955 787972 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457906058 798586 :MoALTz_!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl NICK :MoALTz < 1457906468 425862 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Libra14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46589 5* 03Erinius 5* (+862) 10Created page with "'''Libra''' is a language that provides no real features, so the programmer must rely entirely upon libraries to do anything. These standard libraries use extremely esoteric t..." < 1457906652 700468 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Libra14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46590&oldid=46589 5* 03Erinius 5* (+111) 10 < 1457906816 339085 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1457907090 18534 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: Like in actual clocks < 1457907112 13276 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1457907119 52200 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very nice < 1457907311 861688 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? break < 1457907313 77401 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fall < 1457907315 25472 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? powerup < 1457907351 942059 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fall? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457907352 75582 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :break? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457907353 148433 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :powerup? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457907380 712949 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? invincibility frames < 1457907381 873170 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :invincibility frames? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457907415 455733 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats this b-jonas < 1457907532 35954 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: dunno. I think we once speculated on a language where if control falls out of too many braces at the time without a sentence break;ing the fall, you die, unless you cast feather fall before < 1457907577 755256 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-004-081-022.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457907577 926435 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457907579 11627 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457907605 812634 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-004-081-022.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457907610 424477 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.220.2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457907633 69209 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457907643 406584 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457907970 185423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? walk < 1457907971 687534 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :walk? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457908013 632857 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn walk without return or you'll attract bugs < 1457908018 541375 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'walk': walk without return or you'll attract bugs < 1457908028 634168 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that makes no sense < 1457908032 13474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unlearn walk < 1457908033 5324 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unlearn: not found < 1457908043 961105 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rm -v wisdom/walk < 1457908046 936935 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed `wisdom/walk' < 1457908188 863307 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget < 1457908189 854530 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `wisdom/': Is a directory \ Forget what? < 1457908264 207639 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? frenemy < 1457908266 58441 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :frenemy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457908284 698347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the set of frenemies clopen? < 1457908286 789942 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Frenemy is the relationship between Kirby and king Dee Dee < 1457908293 957032 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'frenemy': Frenemy is the relationship between Kirby and king Dee Dee < 1457908343 776768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like some inside joke no one else in the channel would know about. < 1457908352 383082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe it's just my knowledge that is lacking. < 1457908361 211558 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just your knowledge. < 1457908390 270273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a King Dedede. < 1457908398 365364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sedlast s/$/./ < 1457908405 244615 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457908407 269691 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dedede? Is that his real name? < 1457908412 509165 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1457908720 789550 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`evil < 1457908721 834510 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. < 1457908729 753499 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1457908741 500083 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/evil < 1457908742 588099 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat "$(find evil -type f | shuf -n1)" | tr '[:lower:]' '[:upper:]' < 1457908750 101895 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls evil < 1457908753 54123 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :313 < 1457908763 60610 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need these < 1457908911 637244 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: Another one of my projects is actually making Kitten < 1457908933 553047 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fish < 1457908934 612631 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457908935 378934 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pie < 1457908936 722852 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like pie \ I like pie < 1457908936 943813 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bread < 1457908938 132800 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bread? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457908938 266000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bun < 1457908939 171239 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bun? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457909158 550336 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`evil < 1457909159 550818 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. < 1457909164 558320 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1457909516 983137 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457909999 970436 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? stupidity < 1457910000 936824 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupidity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457910003 389139 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? soviet russia < 1457910004 995713 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soviet russia? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457910005 129354 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? infinite < 1457910007 580988 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457910010 141675 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? taxes < 1457910011 673155 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? yoda < 1457910011 806850 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :taxes? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457910013 308895 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yoda object-verb dialogue adopts. < 1457910081 962891 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457910369 970341 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457910968 496098 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457911019 136849 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: Yet another project of mine is making a good shell for windows xD < 1457911036 50183 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1457911036 786510 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about making a good shell for linux < 1457911042 85404 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :would love that... < 1457911052 651273 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol windows < 1457911057 934121 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Yep xD < 1457911063 372512 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin -> shells -> pick one < 1457911071 709800 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Native windows < 1457911081 741052 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I've tried getting Ubuntu running on this laptop, but it wouldn't load < 1457911099 706974 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin -> shells -> choose one -> download source -> compile with msvc < 1457911108 734833 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1457911112 774882 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I mean a shell for windows that I designed on my own < 1457911123 598559 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem isn't the shell < 1457911135 700070 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :download the gnu utils and you can kinda work with it < 1457911139 989206 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It's a fun project I'm doing because I want to < 1457911153 896131 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your standard for a good shell? < 1457911154 921911 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Gbagbo14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46591 5* 03Qpliu 5* (+3758) 10Created page with "The Gbagbo programming language expresses calculations on bags. It is named after the former Ivory Coast President Laurent Gbagbo. ==Lexical structure== Single character to..." < 1457911161 395957 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Not cmd < 1457911167 937084 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46592&oldid=46582 5* 03Qpliu 5* (+13) 10/* G */ < 1457911169 316565 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :powershell < 1457911196 790141 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Designed not because we need a shell, but because it's something that would be useful < 1457911198 316482 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not enough of a description < 1457911206 813810 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Not an afterthought < 1457911212 838401 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A full thought in and of itself < 1457911333 758916 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently making up commands < 1457911346 859884 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :merge.wal: for 'x' $[2:] @ cat $x >> $1 < 1457911381 864875 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the @ is a redirection that calls its lhs then its rhs until the lhs fails < 1457911422 705039 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for binds the name the first argument suggests to each successive item of the second argument each time it is called, failing when it runs out < 1457911430 431714 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And cat and >> behave exactly as you expect them to < 1457911433 292059 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... it's like cat $foo > $bar where $bar is 1 and $foo is this weird "everything but the first" var < 1457911468 63988 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Kind of < 1457911480 822997 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x in "${@:2}"; do cat "$x" >> "$1"; done < 1457911482 419143 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash < 1457911489 29587 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mountaintop boatmaker < 1457911492 274225 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mountaintop boatmaker? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457911503 243624 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Mine's more legible? < 1457911520 511469 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: merge takes a destination filename then a list of filenames and appends each of the filenames in the list to the destination in order < 1457911561 980675 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is exactly what i said < 1457911566 754274 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: OK, I wasn't sure < 1457911581 420012 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I wasn't sure whether what you said would have the behavior I expected < 1457911583 257133 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat "${@:2}" >> "$1" you could also write it like this in bash, although it's not entirely equivalent because the file is only opened once < 1457911588 198280 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some $@ or the like which is "every argument but the first" and would do exactly what you wnt < 1457911603 259738 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: hard disadvantage < 1457911603 560018 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Cool. I like mine better. < 1457911652 815463 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I'm not doing this for practicality, I'm doing it to improve my knowledge of PX < 1457911668 40743 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PX is like UX, but the users are programmers themselves) < 1457911686 704659 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Also, this way I have a shell that I understand 100% perfectly < 1457911701 586286 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+-90%) < 1457911832 244941 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: What commands are necessary for a good shell I wonder... < 1457911854 198312 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the commands don't make the shell < 1457911859 541307 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: The builtins do < 1457911867 301158 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partially < 1457911882 979065 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457911925 722493 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The primary ones I have so far are echo, cat, cd, df (delete file), chk (evaluate its argument and fail if it is false), chk.f (fail if the flag its argument talks about did not occur in the flags), and for (the for mentioned above) < 1457911940 421268 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is cat a builtin < 1457911952 240692 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is df a builtin < 1457911952 780520 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Because... um... I didn't know how else to read a file? < 1457911960 885837 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Good point, I guess < 1457911965 521040 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :launch the external cat command? < 1457911969 729477 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Oh, right < 1457911993 584031 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actually needed builtins are only a few < 1457911998 936542 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd is one of them < 1457912001 419432 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I heard < 1457912012 512883 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are builtins, and I have a basic mv (with -d to delete the source) and merge, which was explained above < 1457912020 246314 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands that do something meaningful to the shell's internal state need to be builtins < 1457912025 861007 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there are a few calculator languages launched from shell commands < 1457912038 83958 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those are more external programs than commands < 1457912044 89854 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure if an echo executable would make sense < 1457912058 678434 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` type -a echo < 1457912060 190503 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo is a shell builtin \ echo is /bin/echo < 1457912095 632860 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: echo is usually builtin, AFAIK < 1457912096 989469 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised by how fast it replied < 1457912206 968586 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1457912237 280078 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? unary redirector (well, not really redirection but some kind of modifier) just checks if the command it modifies succeeded < 1457912244 435976 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74.121.217.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I don't have something for that yet < 1457912300 992085 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should the check do? < 1457912314 193278 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like: if true then true else false < 1457912590 504014 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if common linux shells don't have it, there is probably a reason < 1457912670 881471 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :common linux shells have a lot of idiosyncrasies < 1457912682 258226 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :very stupid ones < 1457912764 822570 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/izabera/shellnotes i've been keeping a list < 1457913212 777126 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? lagmonster < 1457913216 823152 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lagmonster? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457913289 412896 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? CHOAM < 1457913290 904736 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHOAM? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457913402 802307 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wat < 1457913403 765541 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯