< 1458432565 653672 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I searched for "There is no scientifically-justifiable reason to exclude pornography, which is a vital part of the web ecosystem." and just got logs of this channel. < 1458432569 460557 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stuff unrelated to that quote. < 1458432625 966282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I think it was invented by someone /in/ this channel, when they were writing something in a serious or semi-serious style < 1458432630 931042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1458432670 936263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I am right on that, it was probably fizzie, due to a quick guess at mine as to who would a) agree with that statement, and b) be doing something in which the sentence would have a reasonable context < 1458432682 969044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) is the main factor here, probably most of the channel agrees with a) < 1458432894 146187 :MDude!~kvirc@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/ < 1458432955 8948 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a new favourite out of context bible quote < 1458432966 122215 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows." < 1458433046 204286 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've got one of those Chinese magic puzzle cubes. < 1458433076 686498 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also known as "like a Rubik's cube but better". < 1458433092 184724 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one's the "Pocket Cube"—2x2x2. < 1458433146 250369 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm studyin' this bad boy. < 1458433207 488139 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pretty decent sequence is R U R' U'. It only affects four pieces, and it has order 6. < 1458433280 982113 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, cube theorists call it [R,U]. < 1458433419 719644 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not easy to explain what [R,U] does, but of course it generates sequences [R,U]^2, of order 3, and [R,U]^3, of order 2, and it can be understood in terms of these. < 1458433448 847639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that statement is a lot more reassuring than its opposite would be < 1458433470 803442 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ye are of less value than many sparrows? < 1458433479 383538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: you also have to negate the start < 1458433500 32987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resulting statement would become disconcerting, rather than reassuring < 1458433508 201917 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fear ye therefore; ye are of less value than many sparrows? < 1458433519 51143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a 2×2×2 cube is equivalent to the corners of a 3×3×3 cube < 1458433524 510130 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure is. < 1458433525 127807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm glad the Bible doesn't say that *shudders* < 1458433528 779535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how I'd react < 1458433559 589307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders where to put the quantifier
< 1458433565 64224 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[R,U]^3 flips the FR edge and the UB edge. < 1458433597 793517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, is it "there is a group of many sparrows so that ye are of more value than that group of sparrows" < 1458433624 672903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "out of all sparrows, many possible choices of sparrow would give ye more value than that sparrow"? < 1458433646 60119 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[R,U]^2 rotates both of the FR corners clockwise, and both of the UB corners counterclockwise. < 1458433830 673455 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme see about [R,U]. [R,U] moves UFR to DFR like F, and DFR to UFR like R; it also moves UBR to UBL like U', and UBL to UBR like B'. < 1458433903 60524 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o people are talking about the rubiks cube < 1458433944 151266 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two-by-two-by-twube. < 1458433951 795787 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1458434050 343495 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were talking about edges < 1458434054 83131 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :2x2 has none < 1458434086 228561 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels betrayed
< 1458434103 421271 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it does. All cubes have edges. It just doesn't have pieces which correspond to those edges. < 1458434134 180750 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit of a stretch < 1458434155 993350 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, by "the edge" I meant "the two pieces lying along the edge". < 1458434183 421466 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2x2x2 cube has edges but no edge pieces. < 1458434226 700300 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the traditional design < 1458434253 170805 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure someone could come up with a center that doesn't need any kind of hidden edges < 1458434365 400671 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1458434380 103468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could create a spherical 2×2×2 cube < 1458434384 529504 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :edges. this thing has edge pieces but no edges: http://www.twistypuzzles.com/museum/large/00579-01.jpg < 1458434390 789489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it wouldn't be a cube any more < 1458434394 119289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just isomorphic to one < 1458434400 747549 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was looking for a 2x2x2 one, but that's what I found) < 1458434413 307551 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: it is impossible to create a cube of any kind which does not have edges. < 1458434431 304068 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rubik's or otherwise. < 1458434434 141871 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458434455 865953 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove it < 1458434477 290411 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All cubes have faces, right? < 1458434486 754118 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1458434494 292880 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all cubes have pairs of adjacent faces, right? < 1458434499 932559 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1458434513 111728 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call the area at which two adjacent faces meet? < 1458434518 13416 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1458434522 906684 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other kind of edges < 1458434536 586341 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the kind of edge I've been talking about this whole time. < 1458434570 312434 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should have talked about the right kind of edges this whole time < 1458434586 962713 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have anything to say about that kind of edge. < 1458434603 313683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: hmm, what if the faces /don't/ meet, and are only adjacent in the sense that they're aligned at 90 degrees from each other? < 1458434633 778957 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an interesting thought. < 1458434662 206793 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make a "cube" shaped like an octahedron with the corners just a little bit truncated. < 1458434751 245508 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right, where have they got some algorithms for this darned thing? < 1458434751 980969 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a tetrhedron version of the 2x2x2 cube: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramorphix < 1458434880 712861 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sequence does some kind of corner rotation, but also has the effect of doing L' R on the whole thing: L' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 < 1458434895 973220 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see if I can adjust it so it doesn't do that. < 1458435010 837900 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. Just start with R' instead of L', then rotate the rest of it pitch-up, that should give you... R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2. < 1458435027 169558 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. Now let me see what that did. < 1458435071 509831 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sequence rotates UBL, UBR, and UFR clockwise like U. < 1458435156 203863 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you append U' to it, it instead swaps the UF pieces like U. < 1458435190 988252 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :try R U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 < 1458435227 687068 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :found the cuber < 1458435261 487198 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that's a fun one. < 1458435280 689856 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one rotates UBL, UFL and UFR counterclockwise. < 1458435286 681094 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in... < 1458435301 96779 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I previously mentioned moves the corners around forming a clockwise rotation. < 1458435308 722447 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one rotates each corner counterclockwise in place. < 1458435318 112101 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can solve the cube now :P < 1458435386 833286 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be better to just link a guide or something < 1458435403 61731 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I find a big list of 2x2x2 algorithms somewhere? < 1458435418 91884 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up ortega method < 1458435438 33197 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cuber. I can solve them, but I struggle with the notation, and I'm not very fast. "them" being, in principle, arbitrary size (4x4x4 is the most fun one, perhaps) < 1458435582 4480 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :People probably have big lists... but I don't know. < 1458436074 982159 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like I'm looking for "CLL" algorithms at the moment. < 1458436080 213461 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that means "completing the last layer". < 1458436091 220317 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is for corners < 1458436177 731880 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is 2x2x2. < 1458436276 428011 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1458436362 724584 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me find my favorite algorithm for flipping an edge around. < 1458436433 909066 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :disassemble; reassemble... unless you have an even sized cube larger than 2x2x2 < 1458436530 931167 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did it, actually. < 1458436557 979860 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks
< 1458436637 639469 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how to do it: https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Special:MediawikiAlgDB?mode=view&view=default&puzzle=2&group=CLL&cid=27 < 1458436702 140668 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what you mean < 1458436751 800202 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :still won't work on odd sized cubes, but you didn't care about that < 1458436874 243215 :MDude!~kvirc@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458438052 172761 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm doing those algorithms on a solved cube and getting some funny results. < 1458438120 204526 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1458438242 60818 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :R U F2 U R F R' U F R U2 is an algorithm for flipping the UL edge around. < 1458438336 69802 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its reverse is the same thing, of course: U2 R' F' U' R F' R' U' F2 U' R' < 1458438374 973256 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem like a very beautiful algorithm. < 1458438694 932552 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458439366 5162 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1458440191 26901 :jaboja64!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1458441141 285172 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1458441290 837420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :philosophical question: is it possible to use test driven development to develop a testsuite? < 1458441304 476933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the things I'm writing at the moment is a generic terminal testsuite < 1458441314 186858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am testing it as I write it by using it to test terminals < 1458441325 292085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am wondering what other development styles I could theoretically have used instead < 1458441476 262845 :jaboja64!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1458442056 23179 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can do that. < 1458442072 796261 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just come up with some things that work and some things that don't work and test to see if they're caught as they're supposed to be. < 1458442211 50407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: so in other words, I have to write a terminal that's broken in every possible way? < 1458442217 378943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have to do this /before/ writing my terminal testsuite? < 1458442240 527563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this leads to an impossible recursive loop, because the test tests would require the tests I'm originally trying to write in order to test them < 1458442273 49244 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably come up with an answer for that if it weren't for the fact that I just had a bottle of Dragon's Milk. < 1458442325 677821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I'd /also/ need a terminal that's working in every possible way :-D < 1458442327 768626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a useful thing < 1458442350 132495 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL that according to Tolkien, Bilbo and Frodo's names were actually Bilba and Froda, but he translated them as Bilbo and Frodo to align closer to the reader's expectations of masculine names < 1458442368 529557 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write a terminal emulator, to avoid the mess of xterm and the insufficiency of everything else < 1458442402 208044 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I did not know that < 1458442578 140504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you consider insufficient in non-xterm terminals? < 1458442587 25067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what about them makes them want to not use them? < 1458442615 656477 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that about Bilbo but not Frodo. < 1458442678 183390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the other terminals do not use bitmap fonts is one, and also many ones add too much extra stuff as well as missing stuff too < 1458442933 370235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't many bitmap fonts that cover all of Unicode < 1458442946 132258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :additionally, providing bitmap fonts in enough sizes to let everyone scale their terminals as they want is difficult < 1458442967 192991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think most terminals don't use bitmap fonts because of practical considerations, rather than because they think they're inherently bad < 1458443215 575923 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458443409 929984 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would to use only bitmap fonts, but it wouldn't have Unicode nor have KOI8, anyways. (Unicode is not even compatible with the pieces of big Sigma in the DEC Technical set anyways.) < 1458443544 90391 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(We would need to make up a UTCE bitmap font. A UTCE font is a .pcf font with two bytes per character.) < 1458443616 265717 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also requiring that character sizes are all the same for byte1 being 0 to 31, and for characters with byte1 being 128 to 255, the width must be exactly twice as much.) < 1458443760 768613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The terminal emulator would then include the internal tables to convert ISO 2022 characters into UTCE characters < 1458444230 514166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing is that xterm does not support user-defined fonts, and there is a reasonable reasons for such, but it could be implemented anyways as an option only if the default font already has the correct size < 1458444431 824520 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1458444447 30490 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1458444450 795519 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1458445695 37602 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other thing I would have is three files of source codes, one is for DEC emulation, one is for Tektronix emulation, and one is for use with X window, therefore you can omit the files you do not need and can more easily to be use on different computer; do you like this? < 1458445734 313962 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1458446041 193522 :bender|!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:147e:4d06:aa00:1dc9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458446324 571217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does anyone actually use Tektronix emulation? < 1458446334 379824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one feature I'd omit I think < 1458446341 336938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to comple out parts of the code is good though < 1458446464 428777 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458446558 191003 :bender|!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:147e:4d06:aa00:1dc9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1458446688 793918 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION discovers he forgot to restart the putty session after it dropped 4 hours ago
< 1458446701 208638 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder it was quiet < 1458446709 257324 :jaboja64!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1458447725 528859 :MoALTz_!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1458447910 142942 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1458447970 164603 :treaki__!~treaki@p5B11C89E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1458448162 731716 :treaki_!~treaki@p54BF20D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1458450311 714744 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1458451959 978979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, if Tektronix emulation is a separate source file then you can easily omit it if you do not need it, although the compile scripts will need to take that into account too. < 1458452088 556766 :bender|!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:147e:4d06:aa00:1dc9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458452276 494232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one main reason to be a separate file, which is because often it will not even be in use, so it is entirely separate from the others. For example you can have preprocessor symbols USE_DEC and USE_TEKTRONIX and then tell it to link or not link file dec.o and tektronix.o < 1458452337 520229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you are making your own front-end for systems other than X you would also need main.c then. < 1458452569 590505 :bender|!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:147e:4d06:aa00:1dc9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1458452631 845628 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* 10New user account < 1458452732 237898 :Alcest!~alcest@69.64.40.177 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1458452741 28113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing xterm does not do is to be able to adjust key repeat, although this is because X does not support changing it only per window. But, another idea would be to fake it if the DEC key repeat codes are used and based on its own timers when that happens. < 1458452861 253457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would aim for more complete DEC and Tektronix emulation than xterm and other programs has. < 1458453468 512832 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That mean everything included, including Sixel and ReGIS graphics, Tektronix APL mode, DEC Technical characters, local mode (this can be used to alter settings with escape codes, for example), etc. < 1458453585 374033 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all actual features of the user setting menu in DEC terminals would actually be in there though, since some are not applicable to terminal emulators, such as settings for power, while others are unneeded because other settings of the terminal emulator can be used instead, such as brightness controls. < 1458453665 722054 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@198.134.89.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458453688 317830 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@198.134.89.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE WILL BE A FNORD / COME ON TELL US THAT YOU WANT US / WE WON'T BE IGNORED / NOW IT'S TIME FOR OUR REWARD < 1458453696 243108 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@198.134.89.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why I had to say that < 1458453953 988966 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458453964 322316 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you must learn why. < 1458454217 45759 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1458454235 914818 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are the formats of pictures in Xlib called XYBitmap and XYPixmap and ZPixmap? Where do the names come from? < 1458454439 229608 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46624&oldid=46610 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (+724) 10/* Implementations */ < 1458454476 110238 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46625&oldid=46624 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (+1) 10/* =SmileBASIC */ < 1458454606 326852 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any library to write a X proxy program with? < 1458454659 426360 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@198.134.89.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1458456188 142798 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The data for a pixmap is said to be in "ZFormat" if it is organized as a set of pixel values in scanline order." < 1458456201 533387 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess because of the path of the electron beam < 1458456518 801671 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1458456695 439482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did guess that, although the electron beam goes in the same direction for XYBitmap and XYPixmap formats too, and they are also in the scanline order. < 1458456746 594220 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is that XYPixmap stores each plane as a separate bitmap while ZPixmap stores each pixel as a single unit. < 1458456816 253974 :AlexR42!~textual@128.204.19.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458457942 552197 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods and shrugs
< 1458460504 490019 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1458460812 938569 :gonad!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1458460816 146693 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1458461186 622534 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458461490 618440 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1458463465 301242 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-110-117.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1458463561 363518 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-248-249.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1458463565 941265 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-110-117.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1458464059 657445 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1458464827 30954 :bender|!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:147e:4d06:aa00:1dc9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458464841 964365 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458464901 771201 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458465093 908804 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1458467526 729753 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1458468001 698432 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1458468855 975141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1458471166 751440 :AlexR42!~textual@128.204.19.165 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1458471324 888447 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ezdqqaoxrtgyeevm QUIT :Excess Flood < 1458471548 366479 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ivddogollxyeduyn JOIN :#esoteric < 1458471666 973997 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-205-245.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458471873 908596 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-205-245.as43234.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1458472073 578258 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458472321 543203 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1458475500 180889 :carado!~carado@savhon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1458476207 952405 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458476246 491775 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1458476253 328738 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey ,guys < 1458476254 984106 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome lishaoshuai < 1458476285 178578 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lishaoshuai: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1458476341 928727 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 31s < 1458476344 401838 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :good bot < 1458476365 130286 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh,my English is poor. < 1458476512 767998 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am come from China. < 1458476525 928464 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am coming from China. < 1458476554 71402 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am learning Linux. < 1458476566 160403 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interesting. < 1458476586 332046 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1458476637 354900 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is too difficult to me. < 1458476660 400020 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem? < 1458476983 948551 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinks, i am junior student . For me,if i want to go to a major company ,I must know TCP/IP and a lot about Linux.I think you know the chinese company like Huawei,and Xiaomi. < 1458477101 98788 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codecraft.huawei.com/ It's a topic about Huawei,It makes me headache. < 1458477254 830781 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think izabera that you can solve it. if you have interest and Please help me. My mail is 1049188593@qq.com . < 1458477327 920059 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't read chinese < 1458477444 160614 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your mail. < 1458477497 107563 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I send the topic to you.i will translate it for you. < 1458477513 520540 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1458477525 424708 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do i have to do with it? < 1458477660 590535 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a code problem about the net.if you have interest,you can write your code or give me some ideas. < 1458477745 352104 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :your description is too vague < 1458477903 931838 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the top-level code megagame.You know dijkstra? < 1458477916 606751 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do < 1458477922 985838 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about it. < 1458477931 418688 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :still too vague < 1458478044 955132 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have interset on it? if you have,we can be a team.I will translate it in a mail for you.If not I can still introduce it for you. < 1458478098 563034 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first team can get 200000/6$. < 1458478123 810197 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's time to show your genius. < 1458478135 836252 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's time to fuck off < 1458478179 771821 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1458478187 527857 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh guys,sorry. i am shame to face to you. Ok,goodbye. < 1458478262 310408 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458478315 405994 :lishaoshuai!~lishaoshu@218.75.123.165 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1458479131 350804 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdebath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46626&oldid=46612 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+23480) 10Add some (!!) links to the table < 1458479284 961614 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-110-117.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1458479793 26011 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458480686 492614 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the meantime, the people of Carbo are almost bursting in bubbles of joy and excitement. < 1458480719 672340 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote pro < 1458480736 739985 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \ 28) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" \ 57) ehird: ev < 1458481290 968171 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote third < 1458481296 284036 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :548) I prefer the N64 controller, it's the only one that has place for my third hand. \ 579) it's not a list of /all/ interesting esolangs, btw; otherwise you can take the first command from the first esolang, the second from the second, the third from the third, etc, then add 1 to all of them and you get a new interesti < 1458481340 785355 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kingdom < 1458481341 880647 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kingdom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1458481344 208531 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kingdom come < 1458481344 937951 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kingdom come? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1458481580 349582 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-110-117.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1458482315 100980 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's esolang diagonal argument. < 1458482327 907018 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1458482331 767497 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish/Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! < 1458482585 65931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wisdom for the ages. < 1458482591 746326 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish 20 < 1458482597 566189 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tymällenneteell kylmituksensä tykypsyttävilla intyylitsemmistä suurenemänäni aamme ahdistamanne ahavolyyseltä myrityilta lavertaisemana agrologille luovaltasialla kirkkään hettaminäsi häirittavillä aborttumisemmiksesi ahertävinään kasvattavalle edustasautetui nittävissä < 1458482622 486830 :MoALTz_!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl NICK :MoALTz < 1458482626 956372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the best set ever. < 1458482681 838028 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only "ahdistamanne", "agrologille" and "kasvattavalle" are real words this time. < 1458482897 87276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some vowel transmutation could fix "kirkkään" -> "kirkkaan", "häirittavillä" -> "häirittävillä" and "ahertävinään" -> "ahertavinaan" as well.) < 1458482939 289252 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Finnish is not the devil, visit the Hakkapeliitta. Do not cover. Best before!”? < 1458482976 643355 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a Hakkapeliitta? < 1458483046 431446 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakkapeliitta < 1458483068 123361 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could call that "hackers" < 1458483163 854307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no "visit" in there really. Though the first part doesn't really make any grammatical sense, so... < 1458483246 614930 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's supposed to be an or, "Finnish isn't the devil or the hakkapeliittes." < 1458483251 868972 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? French < 1458483256 334633 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :French? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1458483297 949744 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn French/Le français n'est pas le démon, visitez les Coupeurs. Ne pas couvrir. Meilleur avant! < 1458483303 841455 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «french» < 1458483504 837686 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1458483506 346740 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparse matrix algorithm/Sparse matrix algorithms are a trivial special case of non-sparse matrix algorithms, by conjugating with the sparsification operation. < 1458483860 921164 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458484120 919209 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1458485079 56895 :bender|!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:147e:4d06:aa00:1dc9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1458485239 266080 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458485366 633403 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-205-245.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458486204 309133 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458487780 223304 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-110-117.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1458487812 496059 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-110-117.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1458488061 327201 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1458488458 13079 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-110-117.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1458489499 984756 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1458489533 484255 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1458490010 210544 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-240-184.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1458490025 875360 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1458491479 227992 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Danish pronunciation: [ˈsmɶɐ̯ɐˌb̥ʁœðˀ]”. am I supposed to just cough the word? < 1458491610 824955 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1458491671 287672 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man I have a hard problem < 1458491797 806743 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a bunch of paths < 1458491807 512507 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1458491814 115926 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :/path/to/file < 1458491821 713228 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :those paths? < 1458491833 28699 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking on a 2d plane < 1458491841 704933 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or paths in a graph? or ... that? < 1458491855 421021 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, still the dijkstra stuff for the “tpo-level code megagame” < 1458491856 697519 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or paths in a graph, that works as well < 1458491862 651300 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, graphs < 1458491875 86804 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the requirement for this to be turing complete? < 1458491883 604582 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh do we have a translation now? < 1458491887 657500 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you need some kind of infinitely repeating pattern < 1458491900 315152 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: um... what's Turing complete/ < 1458491902 77111 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is turing complete? < 1458491905 860519 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I don't get it < 1458491910 448638 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a 2d grid < 1458491913 484830 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the computation? < 1458491916 39913 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the megagame? < 1458491926 630717 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e : following the path < 1458491927 451901 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-205-245.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1458491934 807683 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. < 1458491937 881603 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the path eventually stops then it halts < 1458491946 180087 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the path can keep going forever < 1458491946 974230 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: You mean a state machine? < 1458491987 42540 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235 : depending on how your infinite repeated grid is structured you either have a state machine or a turing machine < 1458492007 101987 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance if you have no infinite repetitions then it's a state machine, of course < 1458492036 302424 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's just an infinite 2d grid it's also a state machine because there's no difference between each grid cell < 1458492188 598407 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a pattern that starts with something, but then has a different pattern that repeats rightwards, then paths in the rightwards repetition either keep going rightwards forever so they're not any different anymore, or the path go leftwards which means the number of iterations is finite (which also excludes being a Turing machine) < 1458492235 129995 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a 2d grid but with a different pattern on the top side and left side, then it can be a Turing machine < 1458492288 385539 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a 2 counter minsky machine using the X cell count and Y cell count as counters -> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Minsky_machine < 1458492338 424444 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only a single state now < 1458492355 910640 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need an infinity of different paths, some of which are finite (ie the turing machine halts), some of which are infinite (ie it doesn't halt) < 1458492392 240997 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e : well, in a repeated grid of paths, which one of the path within your repeated cell is your state < 1458492409 401291 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: um, wait, there was a two-dimensional esolang that you're probably thinking of. the two-dimensional language that has an instruction pointer and direction like befunge, a repeating pattern, and able to emulate a two-register counter machine < 1458492417 587800 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was that? < 1458492438 703855 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's what I'm talking about < 1458492451 592772 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/nopfunge < 1458492469 365015 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this brings me to the actual question I wanted to ask < 1458492476 27593 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1458492501 950126 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: ah, that's it, yes < 1458492542 512311 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to design a path grid geometry that has an infinity of different path but isn't Turing complete? < 1458492550 987799 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopfunge < 1458492586 927764 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or all grid geometries that have an infinity of different paths necessarily turing complete? < 1458492711 353832 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2d grid with a different strip on top and left is possibly the simplest grid with an infinity of different paths, and even that one is turing complete < 1458492742 261753 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm conjecturing that all grid geometries with an infinity of different infinte paths are also turing complete < 1458492818 146456 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was someone able to prove 3SP turing-complete yet by the way? < 1458492825 637321 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: DISCARDED CHICKEN < 1458492884 101126 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm conjecturing that all with an infinity of different > are also turing complete < 1458492893 564122 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't make sense of that.
< 1458492895 12334 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm also conjecturing that all turing complete systems contain an infinitely different grid geometry when mapped into paths < 1458492951 827799 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e : hmm, let me try to explain it simpler < 1458492997 314201 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a finite set of 2d paths are obviously not turing complete < 1458493040 381141 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you draw a bunch of arrows on a sheet of paper < 1458493046 265440 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and follow the arrows < 1458493059 188454 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to stop because you can only have so many arrows < 1458493088 873086 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: could also go into a loop < 1458493099 257231 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1458493108 333786 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you can't have an infinite tape < 1458493116 625593 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1458493119 23699 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to build a turing complete system, you have to add the possibility for some kind of infinite repetition < 1458493137 560551 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand how nopfunge is TC, but that is amazing < 1458493173 901979 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: btw, Befunge-98 is probably not TC for the same reason that C isn't TC < 1458493177 545297 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you understand why a two-counter machine is turing-complete? or at least a three-counter machine? < 1458493190 784275 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or fractran? < 1458493196 118456 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I would have to read up on those, I'm not really familiar with either < 1458493199 808776 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : it uses X and Y position as bignums, then absuses those as an infinite tape < 1458493208 10 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: ah < 1458493232 692192 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: after you read up on the, you'll find out that nopfunge can simulate a two-counter machine < 1458493246 532891 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well that is how it usually goes to show something is TC < 1458493250 620825 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais calls these thingies Minsky machine < 1458493257 684173 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/machine/machines/ < 1458493281 764091 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're essentially multi-tape Turing machines that can't write their tape, only read < 1458493310 40976 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah if you have an infinite number of copies of a sheet of paper with arrows on it arranged in an infinite 2d grid that extends in all directions, you still don't have a turing machine < 1458493322 417302 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that was one part I was wondering about. How it kept state without writable state as it were < 1458493327 671226 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have no way of knowing which copy you're on < 1458493349 558810 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as if you made the left side loop with the right side, and the top side loop with the bottom side < 1458493354 200868 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the state, apart from the finite state a Turing machine can keep in its cpu, is kept in how far the tape heads are from the start < 1458493366 450177 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1458493369 91794 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that distance is a "counter" when you regard them as a Minsky machine < 1458493380 40813 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can only detect whether the counter is zero or nonzero < 1458493380 178410 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense < 1458493391 426865 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that was the next question < 1458493396 946847 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why to do anything reasonable, any counter machine will need exponential time < 1458493413 92615 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to store arrays encoded as big numbers < 1458493416 286340 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1458493430 258006 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have enough tapes, you can divide a counter by two or multiply by two, thus push or pop a bit < 1458493456 596664 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So completely impractical then XD < 1458493463 199555 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if instead of an infinite 2d grid that extends in all directions, you make it only extend rightwards and downwards, and have a different pattern on the left side and a different pattern for the topside (plus potentially a different one for the topleft corner), then you can count the number of repetitions from the left side or top side < 1458493472 34504 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it turns out that three counters are enough, because you use two to store two stacks of bits, and one as scratch to do the divisions or multiplications < 1458493473 542260 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes this is super impractical :D < 1458493495 177133 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it also turns out, and I admit I don't understand why, that two counters are also enough, but in that case the slowdown isn't exponential, it's double-exponential. < 1458493522 144811 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: anyway, it is TC, unlike normal Befunge-98. Though 98 is only not TC due to the sizeof problem < 1458493526 636351 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :One counter definitely isn't enough for turing-completeness though, since a single-counter machine is weaker than a stack machine < 1458493559 302131 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're basically storing your turing machine infinite tape as two stacks encoded as something like 2^w * 3^x * 5^y * 7^z < 1458493570 96852 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, ais523 calls these counter machines Minsky machines, and has some esolangs where he examines restricting them in some way and seeing how powerful they remain < 1458493577 521195 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1458493597 783542 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :restrict them in different ways than reducing the number of counters that is < 1458493611 726873 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's http://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Amnesiac_From_Minsk < 1458493612 701061 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you compute checking if your bignum is divisible by 2/3/5/7 by bouncing between the left side and top side < 1458493622 888328 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so forth < 1458493639 64205 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: ah yes... evil < 1458493670 141432 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the number of iterations to do anything useful is, like... super-hyper-exponential < 1458493675 398607 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1458493678 580365 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only double-exponential < 1458493686 216272 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"only" < 1458493687 57160 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1458493694 2472 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: you haven't been on #esoteric enough < 1458493707 40981 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have much more impractical languages < 1458493742 995348 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I certainly prefer computation models that incur only quasi-linear slowdown < 1458493745 996642 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1458493759 803015 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is #esoteric, so people don't restrict themselves to those < 1458493784 493033 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll keep to befunge-98. It is in fact by far the most practical esolang < 1458493791 112350 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you actually want to get stuff done < 1458493810 269214 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a pain to write interpreters for though, I should know, having written 2 < 1458493828 62931 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have some mechanism to build some infinite grid of paths < 1458493839 414744 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: right? < 1458493839 552496 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and scheme48's byte-code. < 1458493849 196146 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was oddly on topic < 1458493881 222950 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what interpreters have you written in befunge? < 1458493890 289109 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: for befunge < 1458493891 946722 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in < 1458493901 647820 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written programs in it, but no interpreters < 1458493916 690157 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if, after removing all the paths that are "the same" behavior-wise (ie symmetries), you end up with only finite paths, then it's not turing complete < 1458493917 353682 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: fungot runs on/used to run on my cfunge < 1458493917 492264 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course, it would < 1458493932 979326 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wrote a funge-98 interpreter in erlang too < 1458493933 739265 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah! < 1458493968 300422 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I lost most programs I wrote in the language in the disk crash before I learned to backup many years ago < 1458493981 599304 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm conjecturing is that if after removing all the paths that are "the same" behavior-wise, there are any infinite paths left, then it _has_ to be turing complete < 1458494049 392242 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I don't know if you care, but either you haven't told us enough context about this path thing, or you're not making sense < 1458494073 983943 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1458494074 121951 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1458494080 878132 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm generalizing the whole thing < 1458494086 508649 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: do you care if you don't make sense/ < 1458494086 675234 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: are you doing? xd a 2d fnord etc. :) < 1458494117 648192 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the infinitely repeated 2d grid is a "type" of grid < 1458494137 661965 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've also got the infinitely repeated 1d grid (not turing complete) < 1458494203 938238 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely repeated 3d grid (which I think is turing complete under the same conditions as the 2d grid - ie you have some kind of end or ledge to the pattern which lets you count your position in the grid) < 1458494230 717166 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also have some fractals < 1458494249 837269 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a way of generating infinite sets of paths < 1458494274 622008 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of which are going to be turing complete < 1458494330 569914 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular the ones that have some binary-tree kind of thing going on < 1458494440 581320 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also possible that when mapped in 2d, you have to have the possibility of wire crossings or else it's not turing complete < 1458494506 435175 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I found some way of mapping potentially turing-complete systems into shapes and trying to figure out what you can learn from that :D < 1458494601 203723 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1458496892 957713 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1458496918 110237 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1458496999 970950 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since nobody asked for it, here's the 2x2 algorithm for swapping UFL and UBL like U: U' R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 < 1458497037 669529 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel does rubik's cubes? I didn't know, although I'm not too surprised < 1458497056 902802 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got one in the mail yesterday. < 1458497086 220659 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1458497106 948291 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's at least one other person here who also does them. < 1458497121 549053 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, but not too much < 1458497138 743652 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even been to the #rubik a bit < 1458497166 162098 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my cuber-fu has lapsed a lot because I didn't practice much for years now, and it never was good in first place < 1458497182 776505 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still feel the attraction though < 1458497206 478830 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should practice more some day and concentrate on improving my particular stumbling points < 1458497246 936259 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including color neutrality) < 1458497252 508656 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Quit: Pics or it didn't happen < 1458497568 150593 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many people are good at "unsolving" cubes. < 1458497579 688387 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a scrambled cube and a solved cube, and make the solved one look like the scrambled one. < 1458497615 338878 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like one added layer of abstraction < 1458497627 982122 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can solve it, you should be aböe to produce any state < 1458497639 804947 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may take longer, though < 1458497649 236936 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this may not be true for the larger cubes) < 1458497678 341024 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never done those, but i get the problem < 1458497679 970960 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: given the crazy stuff cubers do, there are probably people competing in that. with all variants, like one-hand each for the read-only template cube and the cube, one hand for the two together, feet, etc. < 1458497866 88177 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall there are algorithms for cycling edges, or swapping corners, or something like that? < 1458497893 213031 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1458497917 859997 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the "simplest" way to solve a cube (or recreate a scrambled one) is applying those a billion times < 1458497920 674208 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrambling is basically just a layer of abstraction that maps each tile to the finishing tile < 1458497923 107259 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynn: yes. a bit tedious (in the case of corners) but very useful for blind solving < 1458497931 685351 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynn: and no, it's not the simplest way < 1458497951 186977 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1458497955 562016 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it the "simplest" way? < 1458497960 461980 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :paint :P < 1458498020 173714 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynn: the simplest way to recreate a solved cube is to just use an ordinary solving method *forwards* but going to the right state < 1458498044 904023 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternate way is the solve the template cube, writing the moves to paper, and then applying the moves *backwards* to a pristine cube < 1458498073 980939 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the simplest way to recreate a given cube is by making random moves until you find that you've succeeded. < 1458498075 333945 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Well, as tswett pointed out, by "simplest" I rather mean... "dumbest", maybe < 1458498089 339781 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: oh, bogosort? < 1458498091 468487 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bogosort < 1458498095 813170 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that *is* even dumber. < 1458498104 356926 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bogosort? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1458498109 970769 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAt < 1458498114 117045 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have an entry for that/ < 1458498123 626529 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway ordinary solving methods need all kinds of algorithms :< < 1458498144 150496 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you learn the swappy ones, you can use just two and apply them everywhere! (Maybe?) < 1458498262 281864 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1458498284 718181 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably find just one algorithm that you can use for everything. < 1458498295 996 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one that, like, swaps two corners and also rotates three edges. < 1458498405 827092 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could take the 12 simple algorithms that each permute four edge and four corner pieces at a time... *ducks* < 1458498445 594458 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka quarter turns) < 1458498492 668719 :gonad!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1458498496 362227 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1458498511 126063 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could take just _two_ algorithms that generate the whole cube group as a group (or as a semigroup, it's the same thing since it's finite), and use them (without any conjugation or anything). you just wouldn't be able to figure out when to apply which one. < 1458498625 41906 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 algorithms seems reasonable to me < 1458498677 304383 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: together with conjugations by whole cube rotations, and conjugation by the cube mirroring outer conjugation? < 1458498678 219019 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm assuming that one can solve one layer intuitively) < 1458498731 955706 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, some conjugation will be involved. but that sounds scarier than it is in practice (as I'm sure you're aware) < 1458498743 644377 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course! < 1458498771 772736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I have serious problems with color-neutrality, which means I don't conjugate algorithms as efficiently as I should < 1458498787 466155 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has never cared about efficiency much
< 1458498822 160250 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so for example, 3x3x3 takes me a about a minute, give or take) < 1458498857 973521 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still better than me. I couldn't yet go to under one minute in average, and I'd need more practice and learning stuff for that < 1458498891 753883 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not specifically color neutrality though, just improving the recognition of some of the steps of the method, as well as some physical turning practice, would let me) < 1458498922 692990 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do under 2 minutes in average though < 1458498966 471870 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm sounds like color neutrality should be the least of your worries. < 1458498997 281633 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My biggest regret about cubes is that the silver mirror cube wasn't yet available to me during high school, so I couldn't turn the cube under the desk without looking at it. < 1458499002 431097 :pelegreno!~cinch@107.170.175.57 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1458499010 9916 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you keep glancing at the cube under the desk, high school teachers notice that. < 1458499030 259669 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, to improve I believe I would have to start learning a million algorithms (well, maybe 3 dozen to start with) and I just can't be bothered. < 1458499037 487754 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, I know, color neutrality is just the easiest to describe problem I have < 1458499042 918441 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :my top layer has 4 distinct phases. < 1458499069 123111 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-standard too: flip edges; place corners, turn corners, place edges) < 1458499132 857443 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what? that's the standard order < 1458499147 890247 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, the best one < 1458499169 967133 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the last layer isn't the one I'm having problems with. it's before that. < 1458499205 764245 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care about speed at the moment. I think move efficiency is more important to me. < 1458499211 402305 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't track pieces, so the first two layers are also fairly slow.
< 1458499237 390416 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oh well, fast enough to impress laypeople. < 1458499245 246501 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: there are competitions for that too < 1458499282 343069 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(laypeople are also easily impressed by just seeing a 5x5x5 cube) < 1458499328 580641 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1458499338 375808 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or this one, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaminx < 1458499341 738291 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think you can get good enough in fewest moves, since even an old personal computer can find the absolute fewest move solution for any 3x3x3 state quickly enough. You'll never beat that. < 1458499341 874288 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about non-3D "cubes"? < 1458499352 362350 :pelegreno!~cinch@107.170.175.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458499361 388737 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you have a 4D cube? On a computer that is, you obviously can't make a physical one < 1458499375 345631 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've seen programs that do that < 1458499393 80357 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh? Do they have any interesting properties? < 1458499440 636887 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :one step further: http://www.gravitation3d.com/magiccube5d/ < 1458499467 223395 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AqMb-edXlc (hmm but apparently that's a program solving it) < 1458499473 608986 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1458499535 215198 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha http://www.speedcubing.com/records/recs_comp_2222.html < 1458499564 15611 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course this as well: http://www.speedcubing.com/records/recs_comp_3333.html < 1458499625 48159 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1458499895 111295 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never understood what a 4x4x4x4 rubik's cube even _means_ in first place < 1458499909 954769 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is its state and what are the elementary steps you can do on them? < 1458499913 423253 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1458499919 590743 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :any 4-dimensional cube that is < 1458499924 935882 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :3x3x3x3 or 2x2x2x2 too < 1458499952 546185 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so it is a 3x3x3 but with an extra x3 < 1458499953 860449 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1458499962 677827 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1458499968 90221 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screenshots on http://astr73.narod.ru/MC7D/MC7D.html are hilarious. < 1458500045 189574 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I also know some really bored people solve large 3d cubes on computer, like 91x91x91 or something like that < 1458500049 472128 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy < 1458500060 176973 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the 3x3x3x3 cube has 8 hyper-faces of 3x3x3 cubes each, that's the state < 1458500093 261089 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: with a sticker of the same color on each of 27 cubes of a face? < 1458500108 587484 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cubes are the stickers :) < 1458500114 918636 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1458500128 620313 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 27 cubical stickers < 1458500141 926715 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Look more understandable? I also think so." < 1458500145 341698 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :of each of the 8 colors, yes < 1458500145 762729 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus < 1458500160 321552 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok, that's scary < 1458500176 733080 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not that part is scary < 1458500184 708014 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the scary part is what the rotations are, which I don't understand < 1458500190 543284 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1458500200 709857 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these faces are on the outer 3d faces of a 3x3x3x3 cube, right? < 1458500338 275724 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halloily. < 1458500339 161510 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, the cube has slices of size 3x3x3x1 ... and you'll just rotate them around the short axis. < 1458500391 322248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so that means you can rotate any of the slices around 6 axes? < 1458500392 69576 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get 8 basic moves (the usual L, R, U, T, F, B, and two more) < 1458500405 782496 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1458500409 773944 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only around the short axes < 1458500410 854569 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1458500454 644814 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, this is a bit hard to imagine < 1458500466 270588 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree :) < 1458500476 12026 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a wisdom for bogosort by the way < 1458500478 140224 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bogosort < 1458500483 130616 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bogosort? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1458500521 710515 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for nondeterministic Turing Machine. Taneb may have invented it. < 1458500528 703238 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'bogosort': Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for nondeterministic Turing Machine. Taneb may have invented it. < 1458500530 482869 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for nondeterministic Turing Machines. Taneb may have invented it. < 1458500533 96355 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'bogosort': Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for nondeterministic Turing Machines. Taneb may have invented it. < 1458500547 868213 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps that's too accurate. < 1458500564 674112 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i s/M/m/ wisdom/bogosort < 1458500569 29475 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1458500618 55330 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is kind of hard to beat linear time :) < 1458500636 70321 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe link to http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/bogobogosort.html < 1458500662 241964 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that's too efficient < 1458500715 772532 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynn: hellynn! < 1458500754 708048 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hallynn? blynnjour?) < 1458500851 373493 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. make n! copies of the universe < 1458500969 314838 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is imagining a global quantum suicide approach to solving NP problems.
< 1458501000 346141 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, try a random solution, and if it's wrong, kill all sentient beings? < 1458501033 415700 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, the idea of quantum suicide goes against a certain principle. < 1458501043 597227 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically. I didn't think of stopping after killing the sentient beings... < 1458501057 259235 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely: obscure consequences of theoretical physics have no ethical consequences. < 1458501084 60167 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still a great thought experiment. < 1458501087 462732 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you bring up quantum mechanics in an ethical debate, you're doing something wrong. < 1458501111 867773 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schrödinger's cat leapt out of the box. < 1458501155 34245 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I don't want to have that ethical debate. < 1458501160 164833 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Are you sure? Ethics is not as simple so it may be necessary. The laws of physics are important too (not limited to quantum, though). < 1458501196 185650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, _real_ quantum mechanics can come up in ethical debates. quantum suicide probably can't, because most people believe quantum mechanics just doesn't work that way < 1458501220 395966 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if we must discuss ethics, let's start with the simpler scenario from https://xkcd.com/1132/ :-P < 1458501240 620728 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't think of an experiment that the ancient Greeks could have performed in order to demonstrate a law of physics, then as far as ethics goes, that law of physics does not exist. < 1458501241 860982 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK < 1458501303 378983 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: why? < 1458501309 263584 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1458501317 380648 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greeks did invent classical logic, although logic is a mathematics and the laws of physics are not relevant, but there is other kind of logic too anyways < 1458501321 727398 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the sun goes out, owing somebody 50 dollars will be the least of your worries) < 1458501331 179874 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like a boring buzzkill for it, but I've never really fully understood the point in thinking about parallel universes. < 1458501364 185789 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynn: well, it's a great device for unimaginative writers < 1458501469 548938 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why *would* ethics depend on stuff that the ancient Greeks could never have observed? < 1458501479 236302 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let's not forget Milner's and Hoare's pioneering work on communicating parallel universes... < 1458501519 38725 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only I had a knife to get back to the original universe from this parallel one < 1458501523 428612 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/work/works/ < 1458501535 765850 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Because the ancient Greeks (and even today's people) cannot possibly know all of the possible situations that might occur. < 1458501722 684986 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you think the world wasn't yet quantum mechanical at ancient times, and only became so in the enlightenment when we were too close to figuring out all of physics? < 1458501766 417772 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does philosophy have a concept of a "sufficiently smart human"? ("A sufficiently smart human could solve the problem of global warming.") < 1458501802 384684 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, that's game theory and economics, and the latter calls it “perfectly rational agents” < 1458501883 740646 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1458501900 76358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: No, what I mean is that only what you know is approximation and is not quite completed. It applies to philosophy, ethics, science, religion, etc but in different ways. < 1458501935 798654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perfectly rational agent" does make more sense I think, assuming that is what you mean of course. < 1458502127 963767 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458502193 566108 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1458502366 300004 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: makes sense. As much sense as my theory that we are all in a virtual world and what we call quantum physics is just really deficiencies in the simulation. Like floating point rounding errors sort of < 1458502383 887421 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1458502388 303186 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I don't actually believe this) < 1458502804 458504 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Course, if it's just deficiencies in the simulation, it's weird that the simulation is deficient in a manner that's so consistent and difficult. < 1458502903 870572 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: well, that is why it is a joke theory ;P < 1458502921 810113 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of many reasons < 1458503412 138051 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that quantum physics doesn't work anything like simulation errors, for instance < 1458503809 928994 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, obviously that is a bit more complicated computer architecture than what we have currently < 1458503887 681873 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all we can't simulate an entire universe yet, so why should we assume that they will do that on hardware we can understand < 1458504345 7006 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejd62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1458507648 230737 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Ozwg6693 5* 10New user account < 1458507680 812616 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1458507680 950191 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1458508167 488764 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hi < 1458508209 704207 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1458508215 725721 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm playing Factorio < 1458508233 621803 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it seems like the new minecraft, kind of < 1458508244 713834 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing it popping up in lots of youtube channels < 1458508246 989641 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite different to Minecraft < 1458508251 162890 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1458508274 840918 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to certain modpacks for minecraft though < 1458508293 428573 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And similar in that it is an early access game that is quite playable and doing really well < 1458508350 539373 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should make an android port < 1458508369 766352 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: might work well on a really large tablet, probably not on a phone < 1458508376 960647 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect it would control terribly < 1458508406 354167 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need to be that large if you can zoom properly < 1458508422 839823 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1458508432 807920 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the inventory < 1458508449 324096 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the inventory of a car or tank in that game < 1458508663 921260 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the tension while waiting for the first edit... is it spam or real? < 1458508733 25101 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps the first edit was blocked... where's that page again < 1458508737 616794 :jaboja!~jaboja@eml13.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1458508804 581993 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:AbuseLog ... nothing yet < 1458509332 629233 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458509534 749046 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1458509546 674866 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess I know how to solve a 2x2 cube now. < 1458509572 621534 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1458509601 618423 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1458509613 127860 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now here's a fun little sequence, of order 4: R2 U2 R U2 R2 < 1458509622 92455 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Haneb < 1458509629 844402 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1458509633 321885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factorio is TG < 1458509671 392404 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also known as R^(R2 U2), of course. < 1458509715 590510 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't R^(R2 D2) more popular < 1458509726 890122 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among Star Wars fans, probably. < 1458509729 189725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Are you multiplaying Factorio? < 1458509735 291248 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, yeah < 1458509740 634242 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :With one of my friends from uni < 1458509762 381366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplayertorio is TG < 1458509770 464402 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? TG < 1458509789 144473 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TG? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1458509795 768139 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS? < 1458509800 205406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :too good < 1458509817 132987 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :R^(R2 U2) U has an effect that's somewhat easier to describe. < 1458509828 145969 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a very simple X clock in JavaScript, which supports resizing the window but no settings are implemented and it only displays seconds, and only by filling in the circle; it is white at 0 seconds and half green at 30 seconds and so on. I made simply to show its working though, so if you want a real analog clock you could just use xclock, or to modify this one < 1458509861 41201 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It rotates UBL and UFR in place clockwise while rotating UBR and UFL in place counterclockwise. < 1458509881 576673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1458509932 621995 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1458509955 539542 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way that it does this, of course, is by using R2 U2 to move the U pieces into the R layer in a certain way. < 1458510017 669202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What if you added another circle for minutes and a third circle for hours? < 1458510022 573800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the clock would be useful. < 1458510036 744116 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that can be done by using concentric circles perhaps < 1458510040 419601 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1458510047 591921 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I only intended it as an example anyways. < 1458510071 261522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/Ubba < 1458510125 324919 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1458510409 704581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, function* < 1458510415 260205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generators? < 1458510530 743532 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what the heck is up with this algorithm: U' R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 < 1458510618 469107 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can simplify that a *little* bit: U R' B2^(F R') R' B2 R2 < 1458510628 664657 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, add a U and you get a sequence that permutes corners on a 3x3x3 cube, preserving edges < 1458510635 809657 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, lemme try that again. < 1458510649 347679 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U' R' B2^(F R') R' B2 R2 < 1458510703 23045 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate B and F. < 1458510714 40492 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially in combination. < 1458510860 611107 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :B2^(F R') leaves the F layer alone except for UFR. It flips the DB edge around. It also swaps UBL and UFR around, with their formerly U faces now facing L and F instead. < 1458510896 464786 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wacko. < 1458511080 841967 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, function* means generator functions < 1458511098 619379 :jaboja!~jaboja@eml13.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1458511326 873205 :jaboja!~jaboja@eml13.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1458511934 120120 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that R U R' U R U2 R' U2 is a significant sequence for the 3x3 as well as the 2x2. < 1458512022 130615 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I use that (and two variants... inverse, and the mirror image of the inverse) to orient corners < 1458512078 20775 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but not the mirror image... I can't explain why :) ) < 1458512260 230706 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme check the exact effect that has on the 3x3. < 1458512279 112166 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1458512291 696890 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. Interesting. < 1458512306 715155 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I believe I discovered it myself at some point... playing around with the idea of taking out the FR edge and FRB corner and then putting them back again < 1458512314 231873 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the U layer is affected. I'll have to figure out why that is. < 1458512330 743532 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UFL and UL pieces are left alone. < 1458512352 231190 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The remaining U edge pieces have cycled clockwise. < 1458512373 739345 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the remaining U corner pieces have rotated clockwise in place. < 1458512397 438600 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This, of course, means that the sequence has order 3. < 1458512444 875063 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for a long time I've used (R U R' U')^3 to permute corners in the back layer (so turning the cube...) < 1458512574 916228 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's B' R' F' R B R' F R and its inverse < 1458513181 667931 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1458513916 997753 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458514173 906311 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1458514449 42713 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh man, I still have difficulty reading this algebraic notation, because I used to learn move sequences with the Hungarian mnemonics which use S K T N F L for the sides (all consonants so you can make syllables by appending e u i for 1 2 3 turn resp) < 1458514504 687920 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really read it either... I can perform the sequence slowly on a cube :P < 1458514545 374337 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :S K T N F L is so much better < 1458514569 262927 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I don't agree. < 1458514614 877602 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no really, being able to recite the moves with one syllable for each moves makes it much more easier < 1458514774 862919 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see that. But I would have to learn the letters. < 1458514825 373767 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTHAR TRYGGVASEN, GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER! < 1458514835 787129 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is catching up on GG from the start
< 1458514851 676313 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: quite the project < 1458514889 539652 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, there weren't black and white pages at the beginning, like I remembered them. < 1458514904 110895 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the first volume redrawn or something? < 1458515032 961277 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's not difficult, since there's only six of them < 1458515045 561255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let's say eleven of them or something < 1458515052 349854 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since not only the sides count, but also e u i < 1458515082 463909 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's a non-issue for me since I've never tried to memorize more than one combination at a time :P < 1458515099 994440 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So mechanical memory was good enough. < 1458515108 835417 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1458515122 980180 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, these mnemonics did help me retain the moves for long term, but ok < 1458515139 925761 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can also help communicating a move with someone else < 1458516388 322901 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :communication, pah, what a silly idea. < 1458516562 969748 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1458516742 122148 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION carbonizes int-e's coffee
< 1458516757 766240 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :brutal < 1458516807 279565 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION taxes augur's carbon
< 1458516823 280206 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1458517006 245876 :feliks!~feliks@unaffiliated/feliks QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1458517169 464233 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: how do you know that I drink cola... < 1458517200 686891 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I read carbonate < 1458517215 153048 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :carbonated coffee? that should be interesting. < 1458517215 634744 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION incinerates augur for good measure
< 1458517221 344502 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if i carbonated your coffee it wouldnt be a cola :) < 1458517224 874467 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a soda! < 1458517228 498074 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: such a thing exists! < 1458517231 49322 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa! no incinerating people in the chännel! < 1458517234 462456 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: eh? < 1458517245 420554 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: https://www.manhattanspecial.com/products_pure_espresso.html < 1458517247 602248 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I know. But the defining ingrediant is coffeine < 1458517264 720179 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the defining ingredient of a cola is cola nut :P < 1458517267 84614 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't type. < 1458517270 722828 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise its not a cola! < 1458517271 806617 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fentimans. I need that now. < 1458517272 52593 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :spell, whatever. < 1458517278 560562 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why rootbeer, sprite, etc. arent colas, they're just sodas < 1458517316 402531 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ive had manhattan special. it's REALLY good. but it needs to be ice cold before you open it otherwise it'll spray all over the place < 1458517362 421684 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootbeer and sprite also don't contain coffeine ;-) I think you'll have to come up with one of those awful energy drinks... < 1458517383 134266 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1458517444 838918 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling logic programming would be good for OS dev < 1458517528 550321 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hi < 1458518393 89570 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes hppavilion[1] in the hellogical bits