←2016-03-20 2016-03-21 2016-03-22→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:03:43 -!- feliks has joined.
00:05:20 <int-e> hmmmm. hellogic
00:07:35 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Good point
00:07:49 <hppavilion[1]> boily: But tswett doesn't lend itself to porthellos as easily as e.g. hppavilion[1]
00:08:57 <boily> best I found was tswellott. or warrigello, depending on how he's connected as.
00:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
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00:09:37 <boily> hppavilion[1]: yours sounds better, imho. it has that... Elvish feel to it?
00:10:19 <hppavilion[1]> It does, doesn't it...
00:11:06 * int-e tswats tswett with a mapole because it's easier than a salutation.
00:11:34 <boily> mapoles are great, eh?
00:11:40 <hppavilion[1]> Yes, yes they are
00:13:00 <boily> c#qqRr#j¸$5^
00:13:26 <boily> ↑ that should be rendered with a tengwar font.
00:15:22 <int-e> `? mapole
00:15:33 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
00:16:34 <int-e> `? moose
00:16:35 <HackEgo> moose? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:17:00 <int-e> I guess it's a secret nordic weapon of mass distraction?
00:18:45 <boily> it's not really secret. meese are quite big by themselves; pretty hard to hide hth
00:19:50 <oerjan> can you catch a moose with a choose trap
00:20:14 <boily> ...
00:20:17 <boily> ...
00:20:32 * boily THWACKS oerjan. 0.35 shachafs.
00:21:07 <oerjan> brutal.
00:21:08 <shachaf> hoily
00:21:11 <shachaf> where did you get that
00:22:04 <int-e> boily: then why do you need a moose whistle? I thought it was to lure them out of their lairs...
00:22:55 <augur> int-e: sprite contains caffeine, i think. rootbeer usually doesnt but can. mountain dew definitely does but isnt a cola
00:23:18 <boily> int-e: it's for giving them orders under adverse weather or great distances.
00:23:26 <boily> shachaf: get what?
00:23:40 <shachaf> the mapole
00:24:02 <boily> oh, secondary portative one, in case I had lent my main one to someone else.
00:24:09 <boily> btw, can I get it back please?
00:24:54 <int-e> augur: "Sprite is a colorless, lemon and lime flavored, caffeine-free soft drink" (well okay, there's a variant with caffeine)
00:26:49 <oerjan> boily: that reminds me of someone absconding with my swatter...
00:27:08 <oerjan> or wait, it was the saucepan
00:27:25 <int-e> -#-#-# ... slightly modified
00:27:43 <shachaf> ###-----
00:27:52 <boily> oh, right.
00:27:58 * boily resaucepans oerjan
00:28:07 <oerjan> boily: there are too many fake swatters and mapoles around. we need a certification system.
00:28:27 <boily> mine's mine.
00:28:37 <augur> int-e: hm! well then ive wasted money on sprite too many times :(
00:28:47 <int-e> let's have a rowboat: ###-----\__/-----###
00:29:09 <oerjan> augur: the caffeine was in you all along!
00:29:18 <augur> oerjan: :o
00:30:11 * oerjan considered making a wisdom about fake mapoles, but then realized what the portmanteau would be...
00:32:07 <boily> UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!
00:32:20 * boily snatches his precious mapole back from shachaf
00:32:36 <int-e> `? popcorn
00:32:38 <HackEgo> popcorn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:32:48 <int-e> fungot: popcorn?
00:32:48 <fungot> int-e: fnord olet fnord." fnord
00:32:57 <int-e> fungot: you must be kidding
00:32:57 <fungot> int-e: i don't have
00:33:02 <int-e> ^style
00:33:02 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
00:33:10 <shachaf> oerjan: try "mock mapole" hth
00:33:17 <int-e> fungot: I know you can do better than that
00:33:17 <fungot> int-e: irp will solve it. i quite like ribbit. :) i'm still not entirely clear on how composable continuations work and where you don't
00:33:19 <oerjan> int-e: that "olet" is finnish
00:33:44 <int-e> oerjan: thanks, but I'm more upset about the f-words.
00:34:03 <oerjan> int-e: well it was presumably bordered by fnordable finnish words
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00:34:07 <int-e> (though this explains why they would be so frequent in that context)
00:34:58 <shachaf> oerjan: et ole suomalainen hth
00:35:14 <boily> fnord fnord fnord ♪
00:35:55 <int-e> califnordication?
00:36:09 <boily> about GG: there's something weird going on. I remember the "horse", near the beginning of the colour pages. and it's nowhere to be seen.
00:36:31 <oerjan> boily: wat?
00:36:39 <oerjan> oh.
00:36:44 <int-e> it may be that the color pages are starting earlier these days
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00:37:17 <oerjan> yes, cheyenne wright reapplied some color
00:37:54 <int-e> (I have to admit that I'm unsure about the horse reference)
00:38:17 <int-e> but I did notice some very early colorization lately
00:38:43 <oerjan> int-e: it's been changed to symbolize agatha's "breakthrough", i think.
00:39:03 <oerjan> while originally it was just black and white because that's how it was published, maybe?
00:39:50 <int-e> speaking of horses, hmm
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00:40:10 <oerjan> boily: anyway, http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050404#.Vu9C2Tbmpjo
00:40:22 <oerjan> stupid fake anchors
00:40:55 <oerjan> i once managed to turn it off by disabling one of the advertising sites, but now there are so many...
00:41:25 <oerjan> it was something google-added, i think.
00:41:53 <int-e> hmm still two months before the paperback edition of The Shepherd's Crown is released
00:41:55 <boily> ain't got any on my current URL. I'm pretty strict with noscript.
00:42:13 <boily> and yeah, I was getting to it. I just needed to be patient for the "horse".
00:43:02 <int-e> That horse.
00:44:49 <int-e> I needed the picture :)
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00:45:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funge-98]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46627&oldid=44830 * Ozwg6693 * (+2947) Starts the quest to make this an actual page and not a joke. Page is a WIP
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00:47:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Funge-98]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46628 * Ozwg6693 * (+266) Created page with "==Name?== If this is to be the sequel page to Befunge, should it be Befunge or Funge? I like Funge (since the original page isn't Befunge-93), and vote to change the name on..."
00:49:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funge-98]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46629&oldid=46627 * Ozwg6693 * (-55) Professionalism upgrade.
00:50:59 * oerjan will not touch that funge cleanup with a ten foot pole
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00:52:44 <int-e> . o O ( what if we make it 10 nano-light-seconds instead? )
00:53:58 <boily> fizzie: please shampoo fungot twh
00:53:58 <fungot> boily: that's what we wanted in the first
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00:56:49 <oerjan> dammit i'm trying to search the logs for when i discovered how to turn off that anchor, but i cannot find _that_ either.
01:01:33 <int-e> 12:09:18: <int-e> some script from addthis.com does it.
01:01:35 <int-e> 12:23:45: <oerjan> ah there it's gone.
01:01:40 <int-e> 2014-12-06
01:01:57 <oerjan> aha
01:04:52 <oerjan> yay
01:05:27 <oerjan> int-e++
01:07:14 <shachaf> oerjan: you should have a keyword you use to leave notes to yourself in the logs hth
01:07:33 <oerjan> shachaf: heh.
01:07:46 <oerjan> i think _today's_ logs will work fine, next time.
01:07:50 <boily> @karma int-e
01:07:50 <lambdabot> int-e has a karma of 9
01:08:19 <oerjan> shockingly low
01:08:34 <int-e> @karma dons
01:08:35 <lambdabot> dons has a karma of 2
01:08:52 <int-e> the karma has been reset several times
01:09:02 <int-e> (dons used to be in the three digit range)
01:10:20 <boily> who's dons?
01:11:36 <oerjan> boily: don stewart
01:12:24 <oerjan> http://stackoverflow.com/tags/haskell/topusers
01:12:44 <boily> the don stewart.
01:13:34 <shachaf> @karma shachaf
01:13:34 <lambdabot> You have a karma of 92
01:13:43 <shachaf> oerjan might remember why my karma is artificially inflated tdnh
01:14:01 <int-e> @karma oerjan
01:14:01 <lambdabot> oerjan has a karma of 32
01:14:18 * int-e is also not very active on #haskell anymore, to put it mildly
01:15:21 <boily> shachaf++
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01:18:00 <int-e> @karma boily
01:18:01 <lambdabot> boily has a karma of 109
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01:18:14 <int-e> that seems rather unlikely
01:18:26 <int-e> @karma synx
01:18:26 <lambdabot> synx has a karma of 11
01:18:32 <boily> how the did I manage 109...
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01:18:52 <int-e> boily-- ... let's put things right ...
01:20:01 <oerjan> @karma boily
01:20:02 <lambdabot> boily has a karma of 108
01:20:27 <oerjan> `factor 109
01:20:50 <HackEgo> 109: 109
01:21:00 <oerjan> boily++
01:21:04 <int-e> 108 is much smoother
01:21:07 <oerjan> clearly better with a prime hth
01:21:20 <oerjan> `factor 108
01:21:24 <HackEgo> 108: 2 2 3 3 3
01:21:24 <int-e> I mean really, really smooth.
01:21:34 <oerjan> IC
01:22:29 <int-e> btw, 107 is prime too, if that's what you want
01:25:11 <boily> I like 108. it's a buddhisticaly good number.
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01:31:44 <oerjan> `? french
01:31:46 <HackEgo> Le français n'est pas le démon, visitez les Coupeurs. Ne pas couvrir. Meilleur avant!
01:31:55 <oerjan> boily: what is Coupeurs
01:31:59 <oerjan> (or are)
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01:35:24 <oerjan> `? norwegian
01:35:25 <HackEgo> norwegian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:35:53 <myname> `? german
01:35:54 <HackEgo> german? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:36:16 <oerjan> `? finnish
01:36:17 <HackEgo> Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen!
01:36:42 <oerjan> `le/rn norwegian/Norsk ikke faen er Hakadalen. Må ikke tildekkes. Best før!
01:36:48 <HackEgo> Learned «norwegian»
01:37:17 <shachaf> `? english
01:37:18 <HackEgo> english? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:37:58 <myname> i'd appreciate english
01:39:24 <oerjan> `le/rn English not Satan is Hackensack. Do not cover. Best before!
01:39:27 <HackEgo> No output.
01:39:35 <oerjan> oops
01:39:41 <oerjan> `learn English not Satan is Hackensack. Do not cover. Best before!
01:39:44 <HackEgo> Learned 'english': English not Satan is Hackensack. Do not cover. Best before!
01:39:49 <boily> oerjan: went for something "Hackerish" hth
01:40:04 <oerjan> i did not. no hackers in norway hth
01:40:21 <int-e> we're all still learning to le/rn.
01:40:26 <boily> hacker, in the sense to cut something. cutter, coupeur.
01:40:35 <boily> maybe I should've went with Trancheur.
01:40:35 <oerjan> in any case, hakkapeliitta has nothing to do with hackers afaik
01:40:55 <shachaf> to learn is human, to le/rn divine
01:41:07 <myname> wtf
01:41:24 <oerjan> hm checking...
01:41:57 <oerjan> "Hakkapeliitta (Finnish pl. hakkapeliitat) is a historiographical term used for a Finnish light cavalryman in the service of King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden during the Thirty Years' War (1618 to 1648)."
01:43:02 <oerjan> apparently it _is_ relating to hacking in the violent sense.
01:43:05 <oerjan> *related
01:43:30 <boily> Choppeur? Émincisseur? Élagueur?
01:45:16 <oerjan> hm tricky
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01:49:49 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/{english,norwegian}
01:49:52 <HackEgo> No output.
01:50:06 <oerjan> this simply does not work, then.
01:50:59 <oerjan> my trusty old memory will have to come up with some better word that fits. perhaps some time around christmas.
01:51:32 <boily> there are plenty of christmases coming up. good occasions for thinking about nonsensical Finnish.
01:51:40 <oerjan> of course, all i can think of is "amortized" hth
01:52:06 <boily> strange times we are living in. oerjan remembers amortized.
01:52:11 <oerjan> boily: it's not the finnish that is the problem.
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01:58:00 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> “Danish pronunciation: [ˈsmɶɐ̯ɐˌb̥ʁœðˀ]”. am I supposed to just cough the word? <-- don't be ridiculous. you're supposed to put a potato in your mouth hth
01:58:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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02:11:45 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> But it also turns out, and I admit I don't understand why, that two counters are also enough, but in that case the slowdown isn't exponential, it's double-exponential. <-- you store n counters in n prime exponents of a single one, + 1 scratch for multiplication and division.
02:11:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:21:52 <oerjan> `? bogosort
02:21:58 <HackEgo> Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for nondeterministic Turing machines. Taneb may have invented it.
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03:07:58 <FreeFull> `? bogobogosort
03:08:00 <HackEgo> bogobogosort? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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03:49:16 <oerjan> ITL tswett implies nuclear weapons have no ethical consequences.
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04:17:44 <lifthrasiir> would it be possible to define a generic bogo- transform for algorithms?
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04:28:01 <oerjan> `? tg
04:28:04 <HackEgo> tg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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04:29:01 <oerjan> `learn TG is short fot Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty of a multiplayer game.
04:29:03 <HackEgo> Learned 'tg': TG is short fot Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty of a multiplayer game.
04:29:19 <oerjan> `learn TG is short fot Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game.
04:29:21 <HackEgo> Relearned 'tg': TG is short fot Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game.
04:30:39 -!- mad has joined.
04:31:07 <oerjan> `? mad
04:31:09 <HackEgo> This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate.
04:31:15 -!- heroux has joined.
04:34:17 <zzo38> You shouldn't censor them regardless of accuracy, unless "censor" is supposed to be the actual text of the entry anyways, in which case it should be censored regardless of accuracy.
04:34:59 <oerjan> it is currently the actual text of the entry hth
04:35:32 <mad> hi
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04:40:33 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Hi
04:40:40 <hppavilion[2]> mad: I've started writing compilers :)
04:41:40 <hppavilion[2]> `? fot
04:41:41 <HackEgo> fot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:42:15 <hppavilion[2]> The Shadow, The Plague, The Void wants you in its unholy office. Now.
04:43:31 * oerjan thinks this sounds like a good day to skip work.
04:44:05 <hppavilion[2]> Hm...
04:44:15 <hppavilion[2]> Along with compilers, I want to deal with the semantic web a bit
04:44:20 <oerjan> not that i have work.
04:44:26 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan: Exactly.
04:45:12 <oerjan> i know nothing about the semantic web, which looks like it will work excellently for my work-avoiding plans today.
04:45:59 <oerjan> is that "fot" relevant to me in any way btw
04:46:11 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan: Well, you did say "fot" in tg
04:46:15 <hppavilion[2]> Instead of "for"
04:46:19 <oerjan> oops
04:46:22 <hppavilion[2]> Which may have been a pun, but if it was I don't get it
04:46:39 <oerjan> `learn TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game.
04:46:41 <HackEgo> Relearned 'tg': TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game.
04:46:42 <hppavilion[2]> I was confused after your second le/rn because you didn't fix it and I couldn't see the difference (I found it)
04:47:05 <hppavilion[2]> min_nd might be an interesting project. A minimal NodeJS-like language
04:47:11 <hppavilion[2]> Not JS, but similar
04:48:21 <hppavilion[2]> Maybe I'll compile it xD
04:48:28 <hppavilion[2]> (THAT would be a good idea :P)
04:48:35 <hppavilion[2]> (Well, actually...)
04:48:44 <hppavilion[2]> (Hm... Should I?
04:48:45 <oerjan> compile early, compile often
04:49:09 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan: Would compiling a JS-ish language result in hellfire raining from the sky to undo me?
04:49:31 <hppavilion[2]> (undoing me as in not just killing me, but erasing the fact that I ever existed in the first place)
04:49:49 <hppavilion[2]> Either because it's an atrocity OR because it would be hard. Both work.
04:50:00 <hppavilion[2]> The more I think about it, the louder the "yes" becomes.
04:50:13 <hppavilion[2]> (yes as in "don't")
04:50:13 <mad> depends what you mean by 'compile'
04:50:53 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Produce an executable. I'd remove some of the worse-for-compiling parts- e.g. reduced dynamic typing- but I would keep JS in spirit if I were to do that
04:51:02 <mad> if all the variables are dynamic typed still and it tests the type of each variable before doing operations on them, is it really 'compiled'?
04:51:26 <hppavilion[2]> mad: That's why it wouldn't be dynamically-typed
04:51:42 <mad> if it's not dynamically typed then it can be compiled
04:51:45 <hppavilion[2]> It'd be boo:python::min_nd:JavaScript
04:52:14 <hppavilion[2]> I don't think I should, mostly because higher-level functions
04:52:33 <mad> then it would be competing against java/c# (if it has a garbage collector), or c++ (if it doesn't have a garbage collector)
04:52:35 <hppavilion[2]> Then again, Haskell has higher-level functions (and static typing)
04:52:43 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Yeah, probably
04:52:59 <hppavilion[2]> I'll likely just interpret it, or VM it maybe
04:53:05 <mad> haskell is in a different category because it has no side-effects whatsoever
04:53:10 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Yeah
04:53:11 <hppavilion[2]> True
04:53:14 <mad> everything in haskell is local
04:53:28 <hppavilion[2]> Exactly
04:53:33 <hppavilion[2]> That's why I doubt I can compile it
04:54:13 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: You like Node. What's the stuff that NEEDS to be included if it were minimized?
04:54:15 <mad> this allows some more optimizations in theory (ie turning loops into SIMD)
04:54:16 <oerjan> <hppavilion[2]> (undoing me as in not just killing me, but erasing the fact that I ever existed in the first place) <-- don't be silly. all evidence indicates that has never happened to anyone hth
04:54:27 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan: Well-played.
04:54:38 <hppavilion[2]> (Maybe I'll make min_nd tapey :P)
04:55:02 <mad> but also prevents some other pretty big optimizations (ie you can't just share pointers to the same object all over the place)
04:55:03 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Vectorization?
04:55:34 <mad> yes, in theory non-side effect code can be vectorized
04:55:50 <zzo38> hppavilion[2]: Probably first-class functions would be one
04:55:56 <hppavilion[2]> Obviously
04:56:09 <mad> because the compiler can prove that pointers to arrays passed to a function don't overlap
04:56:13 <mad> because they can't
04:56:42 <mad> in practice there are no real performance-oriented non-side effect languages today
04:56:46 <mad> so people use c++
04:56:50 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: And events, ofc
04:57:14 <mad> current non-side effect languages don't really care about perf that much and are designed for other goals
04:57:14 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Yeah, I find the way programmers talk about their favorite language funny
04:57:47 <zzo38> Events is a feature of Node.js, and DOM has different kind of events, although neither is core JavaScript
04:57:49 <hppavilion[2]> "I use Haskell because it has these performance benefits that I love, and not because it's a fucking awesome language that I fell in love with"
04:58:09 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: But I'm minimizing Node, not JS
04:58:14 <mad> heh
04:58:23 <hppavilion[2]> JS is just minimized by proxy, being a Node thing
04:58:34 <hppavilion[2]> (I call it: "nanode")
04:58:44 <hppavilion[2]> Or more accurately, Node is a JS thing
04:58:52 <hppavilion[2]> But thingship is commutative in this case
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04:59:30 <zzo38> Yes, OK
05:00:03 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Yep. Computers have enough memory and enough processing speed nowadays that using the optimal language for a task is nearly always pointless objective; the end user won't notice in most cases
05:00:14 <hppavilion[2]> It's more about not using a shit language and being a decent programmer
05:00:30 <mad> errrrrr
05:00:42 <hppavilion[2]> mad: That's not a happy noise for me.
05:00:42 <mad> I think it's application dependent
05:00:49 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Yeah, but in most cases
05:01:00 <hppavilion[2]> Unless you need to-the-femtosecond accuracy
05:01:12 <hppavilion[2]> Most languages will do
05:01:14 <mad> if you're doing video games or what I do (sound processing), then C++ more or less can't be replaced
05:01:22 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Even by Rust?
05:01:48 <hppavilion[2]> :P
05:01:52 <mad> rust would do
05:01:53 <zzo38> I can program with many different programming language, such as C and Forth and 6502 and JavaScript and whatever else; they can be use for different purpose
05:02:33 <mad> in theory java or c# aren't that far from being video-game usable
05:02:43 <mad> minecraft runs on java
05:02:53 <mad> some XNA games run on c#
05:03:14 <mad> but writing games in java isn't easier than writing them in c++
05:03:18 <zzo38> It depends what game
05:03:19 <mad> so there's no benefit
05:03:37 <mad> and there's a clear cost (garbage collector pauses)
05:04:27 <mad> zzo38 : ok, name me a game that's easier to write in java than in c++
05:05:37 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Any game that your boss told you to write in Java
05:05:58 <hppavilion[2]> Assuming you're a proficient Javagrammer
05:06:12 <hppavilion[2]> We need specific names for different types of programmers
05:06:47 <hppavilion[2]> Pygrammers (pythonistas), Scigrammers (scientific computing), Pro-grammars (linguists, particularly ones who moonlight as pedants)
05:07:47 <zzo38> I wouldn't know because I don't program in Java or C++
05:12:43 <mad> hpp: if your boss tells you to write a game in java
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05:13:04 <mad> ...you need to work in a better game company :o
05:13:05 <mad> :D
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05:13:21 <mad> zzo38 : but you program in C?
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05:33:01 <zzo38> med: Yes I do make program in C
05:54:28 <zzo38> Do you have PNG picture with Japanese mahjong arrange in grid?
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06:58:37 <FreeFull> mad: Lots of Android games are Java, although they are hardly AAA games
06:59:51 <mad> that's because they made the mistake of making the api java based but yeah
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07:12:19 <zzo38> There are also other virtual machines to make computer game and other program out of
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07:21:47 <FreeFull> mad: Have you done anything with Rust?
07:22:17 <hppavilion[2]> mad: Fair enough
07:22:28 <hppavilion[2]> FreeFull: Have you ever done anything with dk?
07:22:39 <hppavilion[2]> "Fur Elise in Q semiminor"
07:22:53 <FreeFull> hppavilion[2]: What's dk?
07:22:59 <FreeFull> Donkey Kong?
07:23:11 <hppavilion[2]> FreeFull: Compiled programming language
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07:23:29 <FreeFull> Obviously I haven't done anything with it before, given I haven't heard of it before :)
07:23:44 <hppavilion[2]> FreeFull: OK, that's good
07:24:02 <hppavilion[2]> FreeFull: The fact that you haven't used it yet means my computer isn't necessarily completely open
07:24:15 <hppavilion[2]> FreeFull: Because I haven't published dk yet :P
07:25:22 <FreeFull> =P
07:25:40 <hppavilion[2]> FreeFull: I've been learning how to write compilers, and dk is my first compiled language :P
07:25:45 <hppavilion[2]> It has... expressions
07:25:49 <hppavilion[2]> And putc()
07:25:54 <FreeFull> Woo, expressions!
07:26:04 <FreeFull> Pft, why would you want I/O? =P
07:26:06 <hppavilion[2]> binary: +-*/, unary: -x
07:26:22 <hppavilion[2]> FreeFull: Because some people like knowing if their code works
07:26:28 <hppavilion[2]> Though it's just O at the moment =P
07:26:41 <hppavilion[2]> FreeFull: I'm currently getting functions to work
07:26:52 <zzo38> See if you know how to compile it into QUACKVM codes (either assembly or binary)
07:27:53 <hppavilion[2]> Ah! Just figured out a bug!
07:28:16 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: You can write a backend from the Walric Platform (the WP compiler collection's IL)
07:28:33 <hppavilion[2]> YES!
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07:28:38 <hppavilion[2]> I GOT FUNCTIONS WORKING!
07:28:46 <hppavilion[2]> AT LEAST TO SOME DEGREE!
07:29:00 <zzo38> What is the specification of such IL?
07:29:05 <hppavilion[2]> It was just a bug from a simple workaround
07:29:16 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: Currently nonexistent, as it's still in development
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07:29:41 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: But it's a simple ASM inspired by TIS-100, sans massive parallelity
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07:30:54 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: It uses an accumulator for arithmetic and conditionals, has partial orthagonality, and memory is loaded with LD and stored with ULD from and to the exp and imp registers
07:33:41 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: I'm considering making return a function. Is that an awful, awful idea?
07:34:29 <zzo38> To know, QUACKVM is using 16-bit cells. Memory cell 2 acts somewhat like an accumulator.
07:34:53 <zzo38> I don't know if that is awful idea it depend on the context of the rest of the programming language I think?
07:35:19 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: Ah, mine uses 64-bit memory and registers. So that might (read: would most definitely) be an issue
07:35:44 <hppavilion[2]> Though I suppose I could make up the spec to allow for differently-sized registers
07:35:53 <hppavilion[2]> Depending on the final target
07:38:04 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: To make return work, it's literally 5 lines of unconditional ASM, so I'll do that
07:38:07 <hppavilion[2]> ret(x)
07:38:19 <hppavilion[2]> Wait, but that'll mess with typechecking...
07:38:22 <hppavilion[2]> Hm...
07:38:39 <hppavilion[2]> Wait, not exactly
07:38:55 <hppavilion[2]> If you return a value of the wrong type, it'll just bitcast automatically, which is probably even worse
07:39:02 <zzo38> Yes it is a possibility to allow different size registers; that is a possible design. When someone needs such a design, now you have it!
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08:02:44 <hppavilion[2]> YES!
08:03:28 <hppavilion[2]> One thing I'm considering is a nullary operator called $
08:03:56 <hppavilion[2]> When you put an expression on a line of its own, it is evaluated and its result is stored in $
08:04:17 <hppavilion[2]> I mean acc
08:04:21 <hppavilion[2]> When an operator is evaluated, it's assumed its left argument is in acc
08:05:03 <hppavilion[2]> $ would basically mean "do nothing" when on the left and "move the accumulator to the aux register prior to overwriting it with the left argument" when on the right
08:05:22 <hppavilion[2]> Basically, $ allows you to reuse the expression on the previous line, which is good for big expressions
08:05:29 <hppavilion[2]> 5+9
08:05:31 <hppavilion[2]> $-2
08:05:42 <hppavilion[2]> putn($)
08:05:50 <hppavilion[2]> >>> 12
08:39:24 <mad> do you guys ever sleep
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08:41:07 <oerjan> zzzleep is for the wezzz
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09:02:49 <J_Arcane> http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2009-11/msg00089.html
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09:12:35 <oerjan> tromp: hi you got a bit reddited https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4b8264/celebrates_obfuscation_and_conciseness_with/
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09:12:59 <oerjan> r.i.p.
09:13:59 <oerjan> @tell tromp you got a bit reddited https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4b8264/celebrates_obfuscation_and_conciseness_with/
09:13:59 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
09:14:43 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: if you don't want publicity, IOCCC is not a good venue to post things
09:15:06 <oerjan> MAYBE
09:15:35 <oerjan> that page didn't seem to have been linked before, though.
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11:01:20 <tswett> So, that BLC self-interpreter is pretty small.
11:02:46 <tswett> Is BLC the only thing that that could reasonably be a self-interpreter for?
11:09:50 <tswett> Ooh, this particular sequence is U'^(F R U' R').
11:10:02 <int-e> . o O ( That's a horribly non-mathematical term, "reasonably". )
11:11:14 <tswett> Yes, I think I like that sequence.
11:13:29 <tswett> As for its effect? Let me append U to it; that seems to make it a little easier to understand.
11:13:55 <int-e> U^(F R U' R') is meaningful too
11:14:22 <int-e> I just realized that I use those for flipping edges :P
11:15:12 <tswett> Relative to the U face: it moves UBL, UBR, and UFL counterclockwise, then rotates UBL in-place clockwise and UBR in-place counterclockwise.
11:15:55 <int-e> the first one flips two opposite edges; the second flips two neighbouring edges. I don't care about the rest ;)
11:16:43 <int-e> or vice versa... hmm :)
11:18:04 <int-e> (and of course I should care if I wanted to be faster)
11:18:12 <tswett> Isn't your thing the opposite of my thing/
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11:20:39 <tswett> So now I've got this stupid sequence: U' R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2
11:21:17 <tswett> I don't see where the beauty is.
11:21:56 <int-e> anyway, the point to my mind is that after F R U' R', all pieces of the bottom two layers are safely stashed in the bottom two layers again... while one edge piece on the top has been flipped
11:23:39 <tswett> Though... that's a pretty interesting part in the middle there. We've got, like... F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R
11:23:57 <int-e> tswett: and yes, it's the inverse of course...
11:23:59 <tswett> That part is [F, R' B2 R].
11:24:19 * int-e failed to recall the group theoretic point of conjugation ;)
11:24:42 <tswett> In context: U' R' [F, R' B2 R] R
11:25:29 <tswett> You can make that even more concise if you want: U' [F, B2^R']^R'
11:26:49 <int-e> (and I actually use U^(R U R' F') anyway)
11:27:59 <int-e> where you'll recognize R U R' F' as the inverse of F R U' R'
11:28:29 <tswett> Yup.
11:29:00 <tswett> Lemme pay attention to where the white and yellow pieces go as I execute this sequence.
11:30:20 <tswett> Six of the eight pieces ultimately stay still.
11:38:44 <izabera> protip: actually solving it can be more fun than theoretic computations
12:13:20 <b_jonas> people in Europe: don't forget we have timezone offset jump this weekend (on Easter)
12:14:21 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, that's what mad said too.
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14:12:54 <int-e> poor Dupree
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15:33:47 <b_jonas> um,
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16:54:14 <hppavilion[2]> How do I do GUI on the WP?
16:54:23 <hppavilion[2]> (WP is the IL for my compilers)
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17:05:35 <izabera> first you start with a QRMVP then add a LCLIC and finally a UX£DX
17:06:19 <coppro> hppavilion[2]: please tell me that WP is wordpress
17:06:29 <izabera> it's walrus something
17:06:42 <coppro> :(
17:06:53 <coppro> new language idea: wordpress is the IL
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17:09:09 <dos> coppro: izabera: It's "Walric Platform"
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17:14:50 <izabera> is walric even a word
17:14:54 <coppro> it is now
17:14:59 <coppro> welcome to English
17:15:04 <izabera> that's not how it works
17:15:50 <coppro> yes it is
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17:58:34 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Yes, it is.
17:58:39 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: It most certainly is.
17:58:59 <hppavilion[1]> Do not question the tongues of the Ancient Walrusian Empire
18:02:19 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: itym walric hth
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18:33:36 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: No, I mean Walrusian. Walrusian denotes the ancient culture, Walric denotes the species
18:33:53 <hppavilion[1]> The Walrusians were walric
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18:52:39 <hppavilion[1]> How do I put GUI in my IL?
18:52:58 <hppavilion[1]> What instructions should I include for that? Or should I do something with special registers?
18:59:10 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: You have any idea?
18:59:52 <izabera> how do you usually put guis on things?
18:59:58 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: With OO and Tkinter
19:00:03 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, no Qt5
19:00:10 <izabera> make up your mind
19:00:13 <hppavilion[1]> I stopped using Tkinter a while ago
19:00:19 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: I did, I just misspoke the first time
19:00:43 <hppavilion[1]> Well, misthought
19:01:09 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: But I want the GUI for a low-level ASM-like intermediate language
19:09:54 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: I'm thinking instructions available in an IL library that compile to system calls
19:10:00 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Is that a good idea?
19:21:37 <izabera> sure
19:21:51 <izabera> what's an IL exactly?
19:24:42 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Intermediate Language
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19:24:49 <hppavilion[1]> IL as in CIL
19:24:58 <izabera> and what does the c stand for
19:25:01 <izabera> ?
19:25:14 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: CIL is the Common Intermediate Language for CLI (.NET)
19:25:18 <izabera> ah
19:25:21 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: But that's not relevant
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20:05:57 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: no clue
20:06:12 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: what do you mean by "put GUI in my IL?"
20:06:23 <coppro> you want an IDE for it? or primitives for GUI functionality?
20:06:35 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: I have an IL (intermediate language) that I compile languages to. I want it to support GUI.
20:06:57 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: usually GUI calls are done via a library
20:07:11 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: oh yeah well i have an advanced language that i compile languages to
20:07:17 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Yeah
20:07:22 <coppro> exactly how GUIs are implemented under the hood depends on the environment
20:07:28 <coppro> on Windows, at least some of it is syscalls iirc
20:07:34 <coppro> on X, it's all network-based
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20:40:11 <shachaf> `olist 1029
20:40:24 <shachaf> This is irritating.
20:40:35 <shachaf> I olist and then I have to wait for HackEgo to respond.
20:40:44 <shachaf> Otherwise I'll start reading the comic and then it'll interrupt me in the middle.
20:40:47 <HackEgo> olist 1029: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:40:55 <shachaf> `smackego
20:41:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: smackego: not found
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21:15:56 <b_jonas> oh look
21:16:19 <b_jonas> shachaf: by the way, not with this comic but probably a previous one, there's also a news entry at O
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21:27:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CodeMaster111 * New user account
21:29:00 <shachaf> oerjan is probably not interested in Start of Darkness
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22:32:15 <boily> `wisdom
22:32:35 <HackEgo> phantom___hoover/Phantom___Hoover sucks at ghosting himself.
22:35:19 <boily> @massages-loud
22:35:19 <lambdabot> oerjan said 20h 37m 18s ago: <boily> “Danish pronunciation: [ˈsmɶɐ̯ɐˌb̥ʁœðˀ]”. am I supposed to just cough the word? <-- don't be ridiculous. you're supposed to put a potato in your mouth hth
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22:35:57 <hppavilion[1]> `smackego
22:35:58 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: smackego: not found
22:36:03 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo "Ow!" > bin/smackego
22:36:06 <HackEgo> No output.
22:36:12 <boily> @tell oerjan with raw onions, on some tunnbröd, and an ounce of aquavit.
22:36:12 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:36:19 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: that doesn't work hth
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22:36:20 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo "echo \"Ow!\"" > bin/smackego
22:36:21 <HackEgo> No output.
22:36:25 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I noticed
22:36:27 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, crap
22:36:28 <shachaf> still doesn't work hth
22:36:30 <hppavilion[1]> `smackego
22:36:30 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/smackego: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/smackego: cannot execute: Permission denied
22:36:31 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: why don't you just use mkx
22:36:36 <boily> hellochaf, hppavellon[1].
22:36:38 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I keep forgetting it exists
22:36:45 <hppavilion[1]> `` mkx bin/smackego
22:36:46 <HackEgo> usage: mk[x] file//contents
22:37:01 <hppavilion[1]> `` mkx bin/smackego//echo "Ow!"
22:37:04 <HackEgo> bin/smackego
22:37:06 <shachaf> I don't like smackego, though.
22:37:09 <hppavilion[1]> `smackego
22:37:10 <HackEgo> No output.
22:37:15 <shachaf> Unnecessary violence is scow.
22:37:32 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, the reason it doesn't work is great.
22:37:33 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Perhaps smackego should read from a directory of files?
22:38:47 <hppavilion[1]> I just thought of something
22:38:50 <hppavilion[1]> `? test
22:38:51 <HackEgo> test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available.
22:38:55 <hppavilion[1]> `? metest
22:38:58 <HackEgo> metest? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:39:15 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn metest//me tests HackEgo's mechanics
22:39:22 <HackEgo> Learned «metest»
22:39:28 <hppavilion[1]> `? metest
22:39:30 <HackEgo> ​/me tests HackEgo's mechanics
22:39:33 <hppavilion[1]> Huh
22:39:36 <hppavilion[1]> That's interesting
22:39:39 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, I see
22:39:47 <hppavilion[1]> I forgot how IRC works for a second
22:39:51 <hppavilion[1]> Still, that would be cool
22:39:55 <boily> HackEgo is extremely resilient to botlops.
22:40:05 <boily> we all tried, one time or another.
22:40:05 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Is that a botloopable thing?
22:40:14 <boily> `? botlop
22:40:16 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I was just hoping I could make HackEgo /me
22:40:17 <HackEgo> botlops are the core of botsentiences. Sapience is scheduled for the next release.
22:40:27 <hppavilion[1]> `echo "/me tests"
22:40:27 <HackEgo> ​"/me tests"
22:40:34 <hppavilion[1]> `echo /me tests
22:40:35 <HackEgo> ​/me tests
22:40:39 <hppavilion[1]> I didn't expect that to work
22:40:43 <hppavilion[1]> But it would've been cool
22:40:45 <boily> you have to use the raw stuff behind the slash.
22:40:54 <hppavilion[1]> boily: ?
22:40:55 <boily> the slash is an illusion. there is no slash.
22:41:15 <boily> you must find a way to generate a '\a' hth
22:41:34 <boily> . o O ( wait, \a is a bell... )
22:41:39 <hppavilion[1]> boily: if the slash is an illusion, what does that make /oren/?
22:41:44 <hppavilion[1]> A double-illusion?
22:41:50 <boily> a proper Canadian.
22:41:57 <boily> remember, Canada doesn't exist.
22:41:57 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
22:42:15 <hppavilion[1]> boily: How could /me trigger a botlop?
22:42:33 * hppavilion[1] `echo hello world
22:42:41 <hppavilion[1]> Nope, didn't expect that to work
22:42:51 <shachaf> boily: What? We made HackEgo loop with lambdabot.
22:43:07 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That's a /double/ botloop.
22:43:31 <shachaf> As opposed to what?
22:43:41 <myname> hppavilion[1]: hackego shouöd prepend its messages with a zero-width non-breaking space
22:43:43 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: A single (self) botlop
22:43:44 <shachaf> `? weather
22:43:45 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
22:43:48 <lambdabot> CYUL 212200Z 29017G23KT 30SM FEW060 FEW090 FEW140 BKN240 03/M12 A2976 RMK SC1AS1AS1CI5 SC TR SLP081 \ ENVA 212220Z 09004KT 9999 -DZ SCT013 BKN022 01/01 Q1004 RMK WIND 670FT 22008KT \ ESSB 212220Z AUTO 07004KT 9999 BKN009/// BKN039/// OVC064/// 00/M01 Q1006 \ KOAK 212153Z 22015KT 10SM SCT024 BKN031 OVC070 16/11 A3005 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2040 RAE25
22:43:48 <lambdabot> SLP177 P0000 T01560106
22:43:51 <myname> therefore /me is not triggered
22:44:04 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: IRC clients don't receive their own messages.
22:44:05 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Ah, makes sense
22:44:09 <myname> this is done to prevent botloops
22:44:09 <boily> shachaf: eh? we managed that?
22:44:12 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, and?
22:44:19 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Oh, right
22:44:22 <hppavilion[1]> *fail*
22:44:35 <shachaf> scroogled
22:45:01 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I still think whoever maintains HackEgo (I forgot who) should add a feature to trigger /me commands, if it wouldn't be dangerous somehow
22:45:11 <shachaf> @where test
22:45:11 <lambdabot> ?? ?@ ?run var$("(@metar "++).(++") \\ ")=<<words ?show
22:45:18 <shachaf> @where /me
22:45:18 <lambdabot> I know nothing about /me.
22:45:21 <myname> i disagree
22:45:36 <shachaf> @where+ /me /me is a command
22:45:36 <lambdabot> Done.
22:45:38 <shachaf> @where /me
22:45:38 * lambdabot is a command
22:45:42 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Why?
22:45:46 <shachaf> lambdabot: no, you're a bot hth
22:46:00 <myname> what for
22:46:12 <hppavilion[1]> myname: So we can make HackEgo do stuff
22:46:22 <myname> what for
22:46:28 <boily> hppavilion[1]: Gregor hackegoes.
22:46:31 <hppavilion[1]> (I've always thought /you would be a funny command)
22:46:41 -!- XorSwap has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
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22:46:50 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Hackego could respond to being thwacked and swatted and such
22:46:58 <shachaf> I think HackEgo shouldn't be abused.
22:46:58 <myname> also, wtf @ ("foo"++).(++"bar")
22:47:02 <shachaf> `rm bin/smackego
22:47:04 <HackEgo> No output.
22:47:56 <myname> i am quite unsure what that does in this context
22:48:01 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn_prepend
22:48:02 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/le/rn_prepend: No such file or directory
22:48:10 <hppavilion[1]> `cat le/rn_append
22:48:11 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ [[ "$1" = */* ]] || exit \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1) \ [ -z "$topic" ] && exit 1 \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
22:48:30 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I cannot decipher it
22:48:42 <myname> i would've said ((x++).(++z))y is x++y++z
22:48:50 <hppavilion[1]> myname: It isn't
22:48:52 <hppavilion[1]> AFAICT
22:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, wait, it might be
22:49:07 <myname> but that =<<words is weird for me
22:49:26 <myname> like, the output of weird is not a string
22:49:39 <hppavilion[1]> @let weirdStringOp = ("walrus"++).(++"man")
22:49:41 <lambdabot> Defined.
22:49:52 <hppavilion[1]> @weirdStringOp "hello"
22:49:52 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
22:49:55 <hppavilion[1]> @run weirdStringOp "hello"
22:49:57 <lambdabot> "walrushelloman"
22:50:05 <shachaf> @where weather
22:50:05 <lambdabot> ?? ?@ ?run var$intercalate " \\ " . map (\x -> "(@metar "++x++")") . words $ ?show
22:50:05 <hppavilion[1]> myname: There, it is
22:50:15 <shachaf> myname: Better? hth
22:50:51 <hppavilion[1]> I want to make the ultimate proof assistant for some reason. A proof assistant with multiple formal systems rolled into it.
22:51:07 <myname> shachaf: =<< is black magic then?
22:51:18 <shachaf> No?
22:51:41 <hppavilion[1]> @run x+++y
22:51:43 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘a b c’ with actual type ‘Expr’
22:51:43 <lambdabot> In the first argument of ‘(+++)’, namely ‘x’
22:51:43 <lambdabot> In the expression: x +++ y Couldn't match expected type ‘a b' c'’ wit...
22:51:44 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, no
22:51:45 <shachaf> It's concatMap
22:51:52 <hppavilion[1]> @src (+++)
22:51:52 <lambdabot> Source not found. My brain just exploded
22:51:55 <hppavilion[1]> :(
22:51:57 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: please experiment with lambdabot in /msg hth
22:52:03 <hppavilion[1]> OK...
22:52:06 <myname> aaah
22:52:16 <hppavilion[1]> lambdabot needs a ++++++++++ command
22:52:21 <myname> it just finishes with a \\ above, doesn't it?
22:52:24 <hppavilion[1]> s/command/operator/
22:52:50 <shachaf> > ("(@metar "++).(++") \\ ")=<<words "abc def"
22:52:52 <lambdabot> "(@metar abc) \\ (@metar def) \\ "
22:52:57 <myname> okay
22:53:04 <myname> that is what i thought
22:53:17 <myname> i wasnjt sure about the semantics because i don't know var
22:53:19 <myname> or run
22:53:27 <shachaf> > var "abc"
22:53:29 <lambdabot> abc
22:53:35 <shachaf> @run 1 + 1
22:53:37 <lambdabot> 2
22:53:48 <myname> so, run var is like eval?
22:54:14 <shachaf> runvar is a Norwegian name, isn't it?
22:54:37 <shachaf> A combination of ENVA and Runar, perhaps.
22:54:43 <myname> and i guess \\ is some.kind of seperator for the commands
22:54:49 <shachaf> It's just a \
22:54:56 <shachaf> @@ (@where test) ENVA KOAK
22:54:56 <lambdabot> ?? ?@ ?run var$("(@metar "++).(++") \\ ")=<<words ?show ENVA KOAK
22:55:00 <shachaf> @@ @@ (@where test) ENVA KOAK
22:55:02 <lambdabot> ENVA 212220Z 09004KT 9999 -DZ SCT013 BKN022 01/01 Q1004 RMK WIND 670FT 22008KT \ KOAK 212153Z 22015KT 10SM SCT024 BKN031 OVC070 16/11 A3005 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2040 RAE25 SLP177 P0000 T01560106 \
22:55:20 <myname> ah
22:55:32 <shachaf> @@ @@ (@where weather) ENVA KOAK
22:55:34 <lambdabot> ENVA 212220Z 09004KT 9999 -DZ SCT013 BKN022 01/01 Q1004 RMK WIND 670FT 22008KT \ KOAK 212153Z 22015KT 10SM SCT024 BKN031 OVC070 16/11 A3005 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2040 RAE25 SLP177 P0000 T01560106
22:56:38 <hppavilion[1]> Are there exp, root, and log types?
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23:02:40 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: exp surely. root and log types probably don't exist generally, because of sign issues.
23:02:55 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes. Sign issues
23:03:03 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: What is an exp type like, in theory?
23:03:23 <shachaf> A^B is the type of functions from B to A
23:03:28 <hppavilion[1]> Sum type is Either, Product type is tuples, but what's above that?
23:03:30 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Ah
23:03:37 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh
23:03:38 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: like an exp matrix
23:03:42 <shachaf> You can figure that out.
23:03:46 <shachaf> It's just a pi type.
23:03:59 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Are you serious with "pi type"?
23:04:00 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
23:04:21 <hppavilion[1]> So the exp type a^b is b -> a?
23:04:44 <shachaf> It's not exp as in base e
23:04:49 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I got that
23:04:54 <shachaf> But it's exponentiation.
23:04:55 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: exp as in a^b
23:05:00 <shachaf> And of course pi type is serious.
23:05:03 <hppavilion[1]> OK
23:05:12 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Is a pi type a kind of product type? Big pi notation?
23:05:16 <shachaf> Yes.
23:05:25 <shachaf> And exponentiation is repeated product, so it all works out.
23:05:45 <shachaf> Pi_{x : A}{B} = A -> B
23:05:56 <shachaf> A product of |A| Bs.q
23:06:17 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Couldn't there be an imaginary version of the unit type that root type can return? lt[t](u) -> x+(y, imu)?
23:06:18 <hppavilion[1]> :P
23:07:07 * hppavilion[1] puts on his helmet
23:07:17 <b_jonas> an exp type is just exp(1 + x) = 1 + x + x^2/2 + x^3/6 + x^4/24 + ... right?
23:07:23 <b_jonas> um
23:07:33 <b_jonas> I mean exp(x) = 1 + x + x^2/2 + x^3/6 + x^4/24 + ...
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23:14:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:CodeMaster111]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46630 * * (+1181) Initialized userpage.
23:14:09 <shachaf> b_jonas: Yes.
23:14:18 <shachaf> You have to be careful about ordered and unordered tuples.
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