< 1456790877 99640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? ?@ ?run var$intercalate " \\ " . map (\x -> "(@run var . (\\(w:ws) -> w ++ ':' : ' ' : (map (\\c -> if c == 'M' then '-' else c) . takeWhile (/= '/') . head . filter (\"/\" `isInfixOf`) $ ws)) . words $ @show @metar "++x++")") . words $ ?show ENVA LLBG < 1456790878 371068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Missing ')' in nested command < 1456790905 573023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? ?@ ?run var$intercalate " \\ " . map (\x -> "(@run var . (\\(w:ws) -> w ++ ':' : ' ' : (map (\\c -> if c == 'M' then '-' else c) . takeWhile (/= '/') . head . filter (\"/\" `isInfixOf`) $ ws)) . words $ @show @metar "++x++")") . words $ ?show ENVA LLBG < 1456790906 858197 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Missing ')' in nested command < 1456790910 505713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1456790918 552769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a line length thing that makes it only work in /msg? < 1456790945 735238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? ?@ ?run var$intercalate " \\ " . map (\x -> "(@run var . (\\(w:ws) -> w ++ ':' : ' ' : (takeWhile (/= '/') . head . filter (\"/\" `isInfixOf`) $ ws)) . words $ @show @metar "++x++")") . words $ ?show ENVA LLBG < 1456790947 100305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Missing ')' in nested command < 1456790987 543020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: help figure out twh hth thx < 1456791286 803637 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is a shorter limit in public, at least < 1456791335 684044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I bet it's an internal thing in lambdabot where it generates a long line containing a lot of duplicates of the code. < 1456791357 525053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I did was silly anyway. < 1456791361 968322 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1456791511 700743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. < 1456791514 727339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it < 1456791627 251336 :impomatic!~impomatic@79.16.114.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456791945 5763 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO LATE < 1456791951 832852 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's always too late) < 1456792081 475620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1456792093 5663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a command that looks at the hg log to see which file the last command created/modified < 1456792097 922382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then edited that file < 1456792109 547281 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so convenient < 1456792354 552175 :\oren\_!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ooh, someone actually uses that upside down &? I'm glad I added it. < 1456792366 146158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\_: Of course. It's a very important character. < 1456792377 441735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\_: But in IRC I usually just write # < 1456792570 59874 :\oren\_!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that reminds me, I have a ttf version of your font that I generated in the same manner as my font. < 1456792621 556178 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456792834 634741 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456792907 36854 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] int-e: Did I make the math joke wrong? <-- that was so wrong that i bet you think there are three words in the english language. < 1456792907 170134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1456792959 580587 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] damn i did _that_ wrong. also https://xkcd.com/169/ < 1456792959 750576 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1456793018 951914 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] or wait, did i. confused now. < 1456793019 85547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1456795105 55685 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456795300 590750 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cfvyesvimuldeybf JOIN :#esoteric < 1456795553 104610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456795593 257768 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456795696 20663 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456796658 32943 :ayeelmao!~c0v3r@ip68-227-34-168.lv.lv.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456797328 680411 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized I don't know the rigorous meaning of "irrational number" < 1456797334 967636 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-lud < 1456797335 101099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1h 13m 47s ago: int-e: Did I make the math joke wrong? <-- that was so wrong that i bet you think there are three words in the english language. < 1456797335 101196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1h 12m 55s ago: damn i did _that_ wrong. also https://xkcd.com/169/ < 1456797335 101228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1h 11m 56s ago: or wait, did i. confused now. < 1456797336 845303 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right < 1456797350 461317 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was online when you sent that message < 1456797375 783160 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it's one that cannot be expressed as a ratio of integers < 1456797381 130487 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, but neither can a complex number < 1456797592 896555 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedekind_cut. That's one definition. < 1456797620 24097 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456797626 648887 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456797633 206583 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't trust people who are online but 56 mins idle >_> <_< < 1456797650 420309 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: would you like to be added to the dontaskdonttelllist < 1456797662 848112 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy_sequence. < 1456797666 470808 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dontaskdonttelllist < 1456797670 62881 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ c​o​p​p​r​o​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ < 1456797674 164139 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Maybe? < 1456797678 313614 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not < 1456797684 375125 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1456797685 709141 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going with the points-on-a-line definition < 1456797739 285965 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, complex numbers that aren't real are also irrational < 1456797743 654629 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a haskell library that implemented infintely precise real numbers using cauchy sequences. < 1456797758 856467 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a little silly for things like 1 + 2i < 1456797774 223600 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a term for those < 1456797796 808384 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gaussian rational" < 1456797812 215817 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means both a and b are rational in a+bi < 1456797812 408855 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even gaussian integer hth < 1456797828 423595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, 1 + 2i was jsut an example < 1456797832 550094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1456797836 409391 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1456797838 183864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't be bothered to logread four lines up < 1456797847 785295 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i know, it's _so_ tiring < 1456797912 588340 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi :: CReal -- lambda-11235 < 1456797913 937462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841972 < 1456797927 934801 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that one uses cauchy sequences < 1456797937 708567 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've always thought that math should be more modular/adjective < 1456797945 74428 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _doesn't_ use continued fractions afair < 1456797963 608402 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Instead of having joint-together names, we should prioritize inventing new adjectives to apply to existing objects < 1456797965 709379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a special kind of Cauchy sequences. < 1456797990 709793 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: i don't understand what you mean < 1456798009 608115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quickly-convergent Cauchy sequences. < 1456798014 24180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the name. < 1456798034 440447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cauchy sequences that converge whenever aren't very useful for computing. < 1456798106 120848 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Instead of the phrase "Gaussian Integer", meaning a+bi where a and b are integers, we'd just have the adjective "Gaussian x", meaning a+bi where a and b are members of the xes < 1456798132 44688 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: hm and that's precisely how it works with rationals, what's the problem < 1456798137 220584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe it doesn't exactly. < 1456798173 963086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there are way too many things that are called "gaussian" for this scheme to work hth < 1456798183 406782 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Carl_Friedrich_Gauss < 1456798206 388295 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well I haven't heard of "Gaussian rationals" < 1456798218 319696 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but these gaussian distributions a + bi are so quantum! < 1456798232 581706 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: neither had i until i just guessed it < 1456798234 334258 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And this way, we could have worse things like the "Gaussian Strings" or something awful like that, for example < 1456798289 528502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The real scow of CReal is that it only computes up to 40 digits normally. < 1456798337 890087 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t showCReal < 1456798338 848878 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Int -> CReal -> String < 1456798348 100853 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showCReal 1000 pi < 1456798349 508790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062... < 1456798383 776388 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish lambdabot still had unsafeCoerce so I could examine CReals. < 1456798384 808345 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showCReal 1000 (pi^2) < 1456798386 245915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "9.8696044010893586188344909998761511353136994072407906264133493762200448224... < 1456798391 472480 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last $showCReal 1000 (pi^2) < 1456798393 147450 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : '5' < 1456798444 575222 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@version < 1456798444 708593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot 5.0.3 < 1456798444 708721 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot < 1456798483 328232 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e @version should say which ghc version it's compiled with twh < 1456798483 461706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1456798518 72047 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1456798547 252541 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> compilerVersion < 1456798548 608907 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘compilerVersion’ < 1456798556 309950 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: pretty sure there's some remaining unsafeCoerce bug ... < 1456798711 244770 :andrew__!~andrew@119.137.99.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456798763 5688 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t coerce -- this is some silly lensy thing isn't < 1456798764 820142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Functor f, Contravariant f) => f a -> f b < 1456798772 91804 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+it < 1456798868 133945 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is forgetting his orange juice
< 1456798993 920475 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (() :: Constraint)) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy ()) < 1456798995 568443 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1456799123 680714 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that type family bug i found obviously won't work in lambdabot < 1456799427 867124 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456800097 533981 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456800270 536427 :andrew__!~andrew@119.137.99.104 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456800391 338425 :andrew_!~andrew@119.137.99.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456800574 341068 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456800720 320728 :andrew_!~andrew@119.137.99.104 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456800847 9513 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make a JS parser combinator library < 1456800851 525260 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What combinators should I include? < 1456800867 465070 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For MAXIMUM PARSINESS < 1456801709 645760 :andrew_!~andrew@119.137.99.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456801711 562283 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1456801749 677551 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456802275 773412 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456802749 4494 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456803484 795114 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1456803561 362849 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456803782 489789 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-84-194-30-200.cm.vtr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456804146 678165 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-84-194-30-200.cm.vtr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456804420 633196 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-58-33-74-200.cm.vtr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456804585 370643 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456804609 703394 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456804767 586621 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-58-33-74-200.cm.vtr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this esolang thing is quite a brainfuck < 1456804770 965449 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-58-33-74-200.cm.vtr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get it? < 1456804800 699054 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-58-33-74-200.cm.vtr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::c < 1456804803 941542 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-58-33-74-200.cm.vtr.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1456804877 706680 :\oren\_!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456804924 658403 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456805150 33026 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456805238 851894 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456805303 332289 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@24.237.158.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456806603 940209 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Got it < 1456807973 433782 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1456808211 370992 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456808238 817138 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1456808307 458905 :Alcest!~alcest@69.64.40.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456809694 34138 :benderpc_!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:206e:aef3:9ccc:3443 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456809720 961017 :benderpc_!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:206e:aef3:9ccc:3443 QUIT :Changing host < 1456809721 94476 :benderpc_!benderpc@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456809722 28444 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456809731 28468 :benderpc_!benderpc@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 NICK :bender < 1456810020 562248 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456810595 470230 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456812153 670363 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1456812165 322427 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@24.237.158.10 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456812311 396273 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456812717 521697 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456813716 961126 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll look into cheese theory some more < 1456814394 807658 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: What's that? Are you interested in agrarian studies? < 1456814421 96579 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: No clue what agrarian is < 1456814426 318754 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: You know emmental, do you not? < 1456814438 322423 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The programming language) < 1456814439 877864 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://catseye.tc/view/emmental/tests/Emmental.markdown) < 1456814464 843915 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: an, nice! is that a vector-only ttf version, or a ttf with bitmap/graymap included? < 1456814480 635655 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: http://catseye.tc/view/emmental/README.markdown < 1456814550 738181 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: and is it a repeatable enough conversion that you'll be able to recreate it easily later in the far future when I make an updated version of my font with more characters and modified images of the existing characters? < 1456814643 89713 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Don't know emmental, but I do now. Also, agrarian means relating to agriculture or farming. < 1456814734 451568 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Good night. < 1456814944 252771 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456815529 392302 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Wait, no, mascarpone was the one I was going for < 1456815537 145457 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Mascarpone is 1000x cooler < 1456815540 384603 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1456815550 985604 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, lambda-11235 < 1456815592 416308 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambda-11235 It's mascarpone, not emmental, that I was going for. Mascarpone is Emmental's successor. < 1456815592 549686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1456815797 697734 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456816331 350309 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1456817129 296087 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, on http://www.questionablecontent.net/cast.php , May is missing the header for her name (he's above Steve) < 1456817756 263860 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456817757 824135 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnerd < 1456818062 716517 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456818265 313753 :andrew_!~andrew@119.137.99.104 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456818446 15219 :andrew!~andrew@119.137.99.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456818769 1201 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456819090 560366 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1456821415 527349 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-104-229.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456821448 392166 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456821844 404008 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456822400 640826 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456822710 631942 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456825387 687020 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456825449 657852 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456827817 714470 :jaboja!~jaboja@emc51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456828607 669583 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456828639 705487 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456829495 462542 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Whonut 5* 10New user account < 1456830059 247019 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Bitoven14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46474&oldid=43177 5* 03Whonut 5* (+323) 10Asked about what is syntactically meaningful in Bitovem < 1456830954 346619 :ayeelmao!~c0v3r@ip68-227-34-168.lv.lv.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1456831616 629527 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456832205 31053 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1456832205 202828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf asked 11h 42m 10s ago: pizza must be poutine its place < 1456832220 410560 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1456832240 365961 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhellochafAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmapoleAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! < 1456832488 392711 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, fuck the bf interpreter < 1456832502 893324 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some serious bug that is really hard to catch with examples at my disposal < 1456832535 964400 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1456832582 640253 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ix.io/oIx the code so far < 1456832842 695851 :jaboja!~jaboja@emc51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456833258 58628 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456833533 2872 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456833599 629777 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1456834605 104646 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: REGULATED CHICKEN < 1456835619 842491 :andrew!~andrew@119.137.99.104 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456836172 766845 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue, of course, with generated brainfuck programs, is that they tend to end up being quite long < 1456836188 10241 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, naturally, why we are generating them in the first place rather than writing them ourselves < 1456836202 239604 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means they can take a long time to run in the interpreter you are using < 1456836279 608226 :bender!benderpc@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456837843 17710 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456838110 12926 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456838278 5581 :jaboja!~jaboja@emc51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456839809 378408 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456840675 545800 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456840692 469817 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've worked out why it's not working < 1456840715 676191 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using an if-else construct that uses two temporary cells < 1456840723 798507 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a whole bunch of nested ifs < 1456840729 496100 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the same temporary cells < 1456840802 225304 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I need to design a case-switch statement < 1456840803 830467 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :In brainfuck < 1456840805 943046 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :God help me < 1456840892 642491 :jaboja64!~jaboja@ejb123.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456841118 52715 :jaboja!~jaboja@emc51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456841792 332547 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456842020 432404 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456842040 711290 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 QUIT :Changing host < 1456842040 844709 :bender|_!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456842048 713260 :bender|_!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 NICK :bender < 1456842232 460318 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, http://calmerthanyouare.org/2016/01/14/control-flow-in-brainfuck.html has a guide < 1456843180 125919 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-235.rentec.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456843257 678370 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-235.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456843302 520210 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :neato :) < 1456843497 639721 :jaboja64!~jaboja@ejb123.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456843497 773380 :earendel2!~earendel@176.0.33.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456843716 884626 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-58-33-74-200.cm.vtr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456843729 877476 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cfvyesvimuldeybf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1456843901 403882 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-104-229.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1456844047 243337 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456844788 871089 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1456845406 529344 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-104-229.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456845506 124565 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :anbppomced < 1456845627 40594 :anbppomced!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabored < 1456845745 382919 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.187 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1456845906 823484 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1456845981 995773 :joaeos!~joaeos@pc-58-33-74-200.cm.vtr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456846102 978781 :izabored!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1456846674 506 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1456846842 733888 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456847810 769510 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do with a variant of brainfuck that is coupled direct read-access to a whole bunch of data involved in the brainfuck, as well as variables, but it can only be used for debugging < 1456847887 728453 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1456848191 336909 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt JOIN :#esoteric < 1456848618 187543 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: this makes no sense < 1456848653 271198 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I want an extension of brainfuck with more facilities for debugging < 1456848689 334031 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because reasoning about a 9000 line brainfuck program is less than fun < 1456849097 83726 :impomatic_!~digital_w@79.16.114.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456849687 984331 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is it not enough just to be able to step through it looking at the tape? < 1456850020 458873 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's far too long, alas < 1456850549 634572 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456850829 677596 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456851345 243316 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456851452 821692 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what about tracking certain tape cells the way you can track variables in most debuggers? < 1456851472 38021 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I want to do some things fancier than that < 1456851497 276860 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "make sure the cell reached at this instruction is the same cell as this one" < 1456851509 994002 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :When that loop runs hundreds of times in different places < 1456851582 80082 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456851729 318604 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456851825 226165 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456852053 992265 :Veltas!~quassel@static.117.33.251.148.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456855251 101953 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that sounds like breakpoints with IP tracking < 1456855289 992730 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to, to some extent, specify this in the program itself < 1456855452 261342 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldnt be the first time someone added debug codes to a language < 1456855500 287876 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456855551 242572 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24.156.46.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456855559 241099 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456856270 323330 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-248-121.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456856989 320925 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456857638 500100 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Humo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46475&oldid=46473 5* 03Fpetrola 5* (+81) 10 < 1456857706 33967 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Humo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46476&oldid=46475 5* 03Fpetrola 5* (-65) 10 < 1456857750 965023 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Humo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46477&oldid=46476 5* 03Fpetrola 5* (-7) 10 < 1456857793 647566 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Humo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46478&oldid=46477 5* 03Fpetrola 5* (+97) 10 < 1456857909 992960 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Humo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46479&oldid=46478 5* 03Fpetrola 5* (+1) 10 < 1456857958 899770 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Humo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46480&oldid=46479 5* 03Fpetrola 5* (+18) 10 < 1456857973 70376 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456858007 192915 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Humo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46481&oldid=46480 5* 03Fpetrola 5* (-18) 10 < 1456858051 314507 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456858074 228049 :Yurume!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1456858074 361463 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1456858089 246587 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456858106 113234 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456858151 508065 :Yurume!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456858178 14819 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1456858181 127400 :impomatic!~impomatic@79.16.114.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456858181 261053 :nisstyre_!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456858219 218196 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456858250 163079 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456858259 104202 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456858276 232740 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: Hi < 1456858387 569630 :tjt263_!~RAPSCA77I@125-209-149-31.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1456858474 515223 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456858478 209179 :nisstyre_!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456858571 79318 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456858703 351884 :pdxleif!~pdxleif@54.68.166.10 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1456858762 419674 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-190-108.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1456858917 832103 :impomatic!~impomatic@79.16.114.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456859387 569720 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456859532 716072 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456859580 795302 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1456859580 928868 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: could you use my font for something? < 1456859581 62292 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, I'm almost there < 1456859581 62386 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1456859581 195872 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you compressed all of it to brainfuck code that fits a single IRC line yet? < 1456859604 769714 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1456859620 629983 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least all but the glyphs at control character positions? < 1456859643 259900 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456859647 954679 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glyphs at the latin-1 high controls are probably mostly useless. < 1456859760 301250 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456860340 450323 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ugnldacvsdtlqwyx QUIT :*.net *.split < 1456860340 612209 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja QUIT :*.net *.split < 1456860340 746011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1456860340 746091 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :*.net *.split < 1456860340 879451 :haavard!freebsd@haavard.me QUIT :*.net *.split < 1456860341 12859 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :*.net *.split < 1456860341 12992 :sewilton!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mexroarmzsbbzblv QUIT :*.net *.split < 1456860567 429426 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24.156.46.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: Hi. < 1456860580 61123 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: There you are! < 1456860651 392598 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-153-193.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860683 112210 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24.156.46.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: Here I am. What's up? < 1456860689 117683 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ugnldacvsdtlqwyx JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860689 251163 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860689 251243 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860689 251269 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860689 251294 :haavard!freebsd@haavard.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860689 251316 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860689 251338 :sewilton!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mexroarmzsbbzblv JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860697 137513 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-11235: Nothing; just writing a JS parser library < 1456860781 237273 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24.156.46.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: Oh, good luck. < 1456860858 564110 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456860896 229563 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kitten typesetting sounds adorable < 1456860982 501985 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456860996 206032 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1456861077 614591 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456861515 789382 :impomatic_!~digital_w@79.16.114.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Core War tournament in a few weeks if anyone's up for it? http://corewar.co.uk/easter2016.htm < 1456861550 605194 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION read it as code war and thougth it was a hackaton
< 1456861633 26845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456861663 200809 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, ais523 < 1456861676 548233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas < 1456862029 973110 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1456862104 93667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a better way to do colors with Xlib would be using the standard colormaps, although TrueColor should probably be used instead if possible. Anyways it would then have to check if the default visual matches the standard colormap, and other stuff too < 1456862255 93097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is the standard colormap for xterm the same as that for X? < 1456862701 500252 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1456862711 948092 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing parsers from scratch is confusing < 1456862770 391761 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just invert the show function :p < 1456862775 401849 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-248-121.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456862793 938380 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering giving up and using a pre-made library < 1456862856 726958 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://jeltsch.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/a-taste-of-curry/ < 1456862879 859591 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Oh, that was directed at me < 1456862882 740496 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I'm writing it in JS, so < 1456862894 773439 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: So I can use it in a browser < 1456862949 721732 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it can also be use with Node.js too < 1456862990 223843 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Maybe < 1456863012 294308 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I mean, if it works in JS it should work in Node < 1456863021 479397 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: My main goal is to reimplement Thoof in a browser < 1456863050 572553 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know thoof < 1456863060 493922 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I made it recently < 1456863066 432816 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It's a proof assistant based on PCRE < 1456863087 217246 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: You use s/// notation to define axioms and compose substitutions to make theorems < 1456863122 528455 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Example: http://pastebin.com/Y00f06hb < 1456863127 704812 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24.156.46.20 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1456863146 757728 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Peano arithmetic) < 1456863155 545736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: sure, that's why we have ayacc < 1456863160 483881 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1456863171 44949 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for writing parsers not from scratch < 1456863189 781521 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was writing a Yacc-like library so I wouldn't have to write them from scratch < 1456863206 237428 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ayacc is exactly one of those yacc-like libraries < 1456863208 599708 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I implemented the parser combinator library, now I'm debugging it be implementing an actual parser in it < 1456863215 497524 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend it if you want yacc-like parsing < 1456863224 204026 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of course can depend on what it is that you have to parse < 1456863230 96578 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Awesome, I'll look into it < 1456863238 875324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ayacc < 1456863241 888750 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have a wisdom for it? < 1456863253 319327 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/media/alex/ayacc/ayacc.pl < 1456863256 110817 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, is HackEgo always this slow? < 1456863275 411098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's often slow when it hasn't been used for awhile < 1456863277 872678 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Is it perl? < 1456863283 474343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally to the extent of actually timing out < 1456863296 995995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ayacc isn't exactly a library, it's a Perl script < 1456863309 144241 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, I want client-side parsing < 1456863309 622405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's intended as an implementation of POSIX yacc < 1456863318 677147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you give it a grammar as input < 1456863323 245344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it outputs a program that does parsing < 1456863329 145839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it only supports output in C and Perl < 1456863332 118636 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know how yacc works < 1456863342 622921 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used PLY at the very least < 1456863344 983855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/but/ it is designed to easily be made to generate output in other languages < 1456863348 767773 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Python Lexx-Yacc) < 1456863355 367178 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That could work < 1456863381 246477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically give it a dictionary of program fragments that it can assemble a program out of < 1456863396 994152 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I know < 1456863425 192936 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, if it is pure JavaScript that does not use DOM and so on then it can work on browser and Node < 1456863442 778064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As well as other programs that use JavaScript) < 1456863444 827709 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Right, right < 1456863464 89526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: most yacc implementations work by filling in a template file < 1456863468 392586 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you know of any Javascript parser generator libraries or pure parser generators? < 1456863473 127629 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I realize that < 1456863473 420273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc's a bit different, it generates code rather than data < 1456863516 309835 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456863621 420516 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: I was writing a Yacc-like library so I wouldn't have to write them from scratch <-- with all due respect, if you have trouble writing parsers from scratch, then there is _no_ way you're qualified to write a yacc-alike hth < 1456863646 756253 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hehe < 1456863659 622837 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no hand-written parser can ever be as confusing as LALR(1) parsing QED < 1456863676 749812 :spiette!~spiette@206.167.243.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456863810 319645 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i have a hunch you meant something like parsec-alike instead < 1456863853 423675 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456863915 57117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't find LALR(1) that confusing < 1456863939 580216 :l0de!sid31830@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvdglazumvlovosg PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes hello, l0de here < 1456863948 319456 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1456863949 463965 :l0de!sid31830@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvdglazumvlovosg PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone looking forward to the equinox rituals? < 1456864020 511032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1456864024 144784 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. < 1456864039 121805 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, sadly the “parser combinator library” hints for taht < 1456864052 222614 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be eww < 1456864217 823174 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A LALR(1) parser generator for C programs is Lemon, although that is C rather than JavaScript programming < 1456864248 925241 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, I know, but I agree with ais523 in that ayacc is better than lemon in basically everything < 1456864261 487969 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-80.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456864262 476557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I know what lemon is? < 1456864284 349436 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? haven't we already talked about that one related to ayacc? < 1456864288 112854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :l0de: I have no ritual of equinox at this time. (Although I do agree that it should be a holiday) < 1456864288 290018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1456864290 232998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think I forgot < 1456864295 863977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I asked rather than saying I didn't know what it was < 1456864309 118269 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : /but/ it is designed to easily be made to generate output in other languages <-- . o O ( underlambda? ) < 1456864309 251632 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you do know < 1456864347 562847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it possibly has more of a chance than anything else :-P < 1456864367 659951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the model it uses maps onto underlambda very well < 1456864377 551184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even unlambda, in fact < 1456864380 202123 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lemon is the yacc-like but not really compatible one that (a) outputs a re-entrant parser that doesn't use the C-stack but a separately allocated stack, and (b) its grammars mandatorily use a different syntax than yacc's $1 to access the values of symbols inside blocks < 1456864388 746483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main difficulties would be syntactic < 1456864393 429878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah right < 1456864401 783771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured it was something like that purely from you comparing it to ayacc < 1456864445 889748 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.sqlite.org/src/doc/trunk/doc/lemon.html < 1456864474 110473 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mind you, it probably did make sense for them to develop lemon if ayacc wasn't available < 1456864497 568502 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still better in some things than bison, and it serves their needs well < 1456864513 955853 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: I don't find LALR(1) that confusing <-- yes but you eat graphs for lunch hth < 1456864558 467140 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's definitely much better than handwriting a parser of course. < 1456864612 159061 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to like that (a) difference from yacc especially, it mean you can even use more than one parser simultaneously in the same program too, as well as that you can call the parser for each token and that is how it work. < 1456864686 2321 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that we have these nice theoretic constructions like yacc parsers, but then people invent languages that aren't LR, and that can be parsed only with gross hacks, and in the end the parser you get is so ugly that you can't prove anything about how it works and when it will break. < 1456864712 696829 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALR(1) parser generator itself is great, I like it, although I don't claim to completely understand the theory. < 1456864721 869287 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The part where it gets bad is the stupid languages. < 1456864793 52454 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: funnily, bison is somewhat closer to that than ayacc is, at least ayacc with the C backend, because bison also outputs a parser that doesn't use the C stack, I think < 1456864845 154807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I've been considering allowing LALR(2), etc., in ayacc too < 1456864864 361852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps with some minimization to merge identical states < 1456864879 212481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's unclear how you'd follow the POSIX rule to only read input if absolutely necessary, that might make it more complex < 1456864899 426896 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but luckily using the C stack isn't such a big problem, because at least it doesn't use global variables and has other promises, so we can break out of a parser, we can run more than one in parallel using threads or coroutines, and we could even develop a new backend that doesn't use the C stack. < 1456864923 599269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: b_jonas: you know how you can implement mathematical regular expressions using NFAs, and how those can be converted to DFAs in order to create an efficient compiled representation of the regular expression? < 1456864931 392531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALR is basically that but for stack machines < 1456864960 686937 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those grammars I'm thinking about aren't LALR(n) for other n either. the ones that are LALR(2) but not LALR(1) can generally be turned to LALR(1) with some small amount of preprocessing of the input stream with a DFA. < 1456864981 938482 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1456865011 46587 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1456865047 285155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most yacc impls will, if you give the -v or equivalent argument, list all the possible NstackA states that correspond to one DstackA state < 1456865069 671760 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok < 1456865081 556795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that helps to understand what's going on < 1456865087 374609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ayacc is one such impl) < 1456865199 275181 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, a good quality debug output from ayacc certainly helps develop and debug grammars and prove things about it < 1456865219 459165 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, more than just telling me whether there's a conflict or not < 1456865223 93456 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456865265 902537 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb clog < 1456865278 512330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it also helps debug ayacc < 1456865285 420696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worked on its debug output quite a lot for that reason < 1456865385 424035 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can it also help debugging new ayacc output template thingies? < 1456865415 827638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only by comparing what it says the code structure should be to what was actually output < 1456865423 607726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, a mistaken template will normally just cause a syntax error < 1456865442 498249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically literally transforming the final automaton shown in ayacc's .output file into a series of code fragments via substitution < 1456865444 42426 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly I don't think I'm going to play with ayacc in the near future. I have too many other things to do. < 1456865547 334364 :spiette!~spiette@206.167.243.3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456865802 642590 :tjt263_!~RAPSCA77I@125-209-149-31.dyn.iinet.net.au QUIT :Changing host < 1456865802 775900 :tjt263_!~RAPSCA77I@unaffiliated/tjt263 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456865899 918444 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1456866292 897154 :carado!~carado@savhon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456866574 980050 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-248-121.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456866782 86271 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that reminds me. ayacc already clearly states that the parts of ayacc that it outputs are under public domain. is there a statement somewhere about what license the other parts of ayacc are available under? < 1456866807 15903 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1456866819 339477 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1456866823 455612 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn NICK :lynn < 1456866823 921519 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't urgent or anything, but it would be useful if you specified. < 1456866833 362420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, it looks like I forgot the license notice < 1456866835 268036 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, released it under some license. < 1456866837 220672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was planning GPLv3 < 1456866852 818235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but atm it's default-all-rights-reserved < 1456866869 625729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I forgot to license it under anything else) < 1456866878 282268 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1456866894 252045 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the future I'd like something that gave me more rights than defaults-all-rights-reserved < 1456866972 659476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1456866979 153000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not working on ayacc at the moment < 1456866981 512885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but remind me next time I do < 1456867077 910119 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1456867108 91253 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try, but I might forget < 1456867147 436049 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1456867287 652170 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456867481 244233 :I!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1456867505 999995 :I!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de NICK :Guest46248 < 1456867506 694196 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1456867539 849814 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hope the GPL would work in such a way on ayacc such that (1, more importantly) an ayacc-specific input grammar file is only an input to ayacc, not a modification to it that is required to be licensed under the GPL if you want to distribute it, and < 1456867596 31214 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2, less importantly) ayacc isn't considered part of a program that uses ayacc to generate its parser, so that the program can be put under a GPL-incompatible but GPL-like sticky copyleft license that requires the full source of the program to be provided. < 1456867611 487589 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clear that the _output_ of ayacc isn't covered, my question is about the input. < 1456867616 79302 :tjt263_!~RAPSCA77I@unaffiliated/tjt263 QUIT :Quit: part < 1456867619 896836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the situatoin is the same as with gcc, I believe < 1456867635 885299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't place any requirements on its input < 1456867649 450642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the fact that ayacc implements POSIX yacc is a pretty good argument that its input isn't copyright-affected by ayacc < 1456867655 752852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it'd be valid POSIX yacc input too < 1456867733 605628 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but (1) I specifically said ayacc-specific grammar, and for point (2) that isn't relevant because bison is under the GPL too. < 1456867761 510126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no it isn't, bison has an exception < 1456867767 574622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically because bison skeletons are copied into the output verbatim < 1456867846 210399 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bison has an exception to make its _output_ free from copyright stickiness, right? Same as how gcc has an exception for some parts of libgcc or whatever that often gets linked into the output but isn't covered by the "System Libraries" clause. < 1456867956 250319 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, gcc is probably a very good precedent. < 1456868150 486645 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm… maybe we could abuse the nethack4 bug tracker for tickets about ayacc eventually. < 1456868161 916115 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It already works for aimake I think. < 1456868331 256152 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://test.drownattack.com/?site=https://www.intesasanpaolo.com my bank ;-; < 1456868407 422162 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-80.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456868447 798994 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1456868580 379106 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fwiw it's ghc 7.10.2; I didn't see a reason to update to ghc 7.10.3 < 1456868595 28532 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for ayacc, I tried to write a translator or compiler thingy that originally tried to emit readable code. I mostly failed, though part of that was that I didn't develop it much after the deadline. < 1456868633 470877 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is aimake a(imake) or ai(make)? < 1456868647 889666 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aim(ake) < 1456868650 388394 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That project was http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/olvashato/ of course < 1456868655 81090 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think it's (ai)make < 1456868667 323826 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would "imake" even mean? < 1456868675 462133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's (ai)(make) < 1456868675 647735 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, I always assumed it was an artificially intelligent version of make < 1456868679 831701 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be spelled Imake < 1456868687 508513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ai can either stand for artificial intelligence or (ai)s523 < 1456868701 307251 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"imake is a build automation system written for the X Window System." < 1456868731 508248 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-80.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456868800 196486 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does the first "a" in "ayacc" stand for something in particular then? < 1456868808 670436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :matches the first a in ais523, that's about it < 1456868843 280450 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1456868878 410056 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess ancurses would sound lame, unlike uncurses < 1456868905 931449 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ain'curses < 1456868940 867646 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :accursed < 1456869017 553044 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nfoiled again < 1456869123 453980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called uncursed, it's just a nethack-related pun < 1456869132 167725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sticking an "a" at the start is boring if you could do a pun instead < 1456869138 38476 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1456869207 705473 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456869227 309978 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hey is that you discussing grade skipping with scott a. < 1456869311 401446 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I'm that b_jonas. and it's probably not one of my most insightful comments. < 1456869324 24497 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even among the ones on that blog < 1456869352 930445 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had a hunch and was wondering < 1456869365 406917 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you didn't use b_) < 1456869369 54563 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1456869381 929124 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some places I'm just jonas < 1456869384 761753 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't nearly as unique < 1456869399 649198 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm practically the only b_jonas out there, but there are other people using "jonas" < 1456869600 320087 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: worse, on some places, I have used both jonas and b_jonas, because I forgot which one I used. < 1456869613 523933 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on that blog luckily < 1456869634 555391 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1456869723 673971 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456869932 669614 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1456869961 923000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this one really gives it away that at least some of the "jonas" comments are by me by the way => http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2011#comment-154279 < 1456870063 19065 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456870205 366655 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure if i followed that thread < 1456871686 803799 :Guest46248!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456872235 985177 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1456872253 406469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1456872552 242370 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-248-121.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456873329 45539 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1456873555 570223 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-80.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456875682 667311 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456875901 439349 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456877235 909755 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESS < 1456877238 312591 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEEEEEEEES < 1456877269 900112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: are you able to predict questions before they're asked of you? < 1456877288 955429 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have a brainfuck program that generates ASCII art banners! < 1456877304 988390 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456877319 93902 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1456877328 186673 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, thanks! :D < 1456877329 133027 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK < 1456877331 983742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : CYUL 020000Z 03010KT 10SM -SN OVC052 M10/M13 A3006 RMK SC8 SLP183 \ ENVA 012350Z 17020G34KT CAVOK 01/M07 Q0994 RMK WIND AT 670FT 17035G47KT \ ESSB 012350Z AUTO 12006KT 9999 OVC021/// M01/M05 Q1009 \ KOAK 012353Z 27010KT 10SM FEW100 FEW180 20/10 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP202 T02000100 10217 20167 56006 < 1456877350 405792 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1456877352 613740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said 3h 36m 23s ago: do not @messages-loud this message twh < 1456877367 668786 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellochaf. too late. < 1456877369 631645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1456877382 143642 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera, would you mind terribly if I use arin.ga to paste a rather large amount of brainfuck? < 1456877531 150401 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw it, it's better to ask forgiveness than permission < 1456877574 152536 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yeah, but it's only easier if you don't explicitly say that to the person you would be getting permission (and will be asking for forgiveness) from < 1456877582 988601 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So here's a project to recruit more people to the #esoteric empire < 1456877666 180239 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits patiently for someone to respond so he knows that he's talking to something other than an empty room
< 1456877784 724671 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, are you afraid of echoes? < 1456877867 86231 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavellon[1]. there's tofu in my mouth; I can't answer readily. < 1456877875 47616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : echoes? < 1456877880 437165 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes. < 1456877898 76965 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'd rather not talk at all that talk and have it get buried and ignored < 1456877900 357623 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric : choes? < 1456877908 182891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what usually happens. < 1456877910 802327 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION claps for shachaf and Taneb
< 1456877914 363236 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...oes... < 1456877922 547467 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adds boily
< 1456877938 238523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, I got some intuition for par the other day. < 1456877948 233454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turned out to be kind of scow tdnh < 1456877959 294789 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not mapole shachaf
< 1456877965 34928 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the idea is to create some simple (not 100% insane, but strange enough to be intriguing) esolangs that are practical to use < 1456877970 914831 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck program I "wrote": https://arin.ga/FQLSPy/ < 1456877978 723630 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...lap ...ap < 1456878001 240899 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And publish them together with some project revolving around tehm < 1456878009 513477 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And watch what people do < 1456878060 578696 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They would be published on some blog (as opposed to esolangs.org, which defeats the purpose) with hopes of attracting new people, eventually to the point that we can do esolangs4charity or something like that < 1456878086 897318 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, because that way we get MOAR BRAINS. < 1456878092 832562 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make MOAR ESOLANGS < 1456878124 754528 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( moaronic spelling ) < 1456878137 723319 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example of a language is a declarative language/machine called TurMinsFuck, which is exactly what it sounds like < 1456878178 387551 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will Conquer the World, one Eggplant at a Time! < 1456878186 226868 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yum. < 1456878188 268359 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A side effect is that esolangs will show people how to implement languages, so we'll get MOAR non-esoteric languages too < 1456878196 629762 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: That's the plan < 1456878240 518965 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The aforementioned language is JSON-based, to ease implementation. The goal of users is to write a simple pseudo-OS in it < 1456878267 394686 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something, not sure yet < 1456878313 40080 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how many of hppavilion[1]'s ideas have materialized so far? < 1456878321 332541 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Thoof. < 1456878325 183178 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That's about it. < 1456878335 933837 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: And it's unpublished as of yet < 1456878696 553172 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456878712 153885 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really proud I got his program working < 1456878794 882403 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that looks horrible :) < 1456878821 794461 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... <> ... doesn't look so useful :) < 1456878829 520668 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's generated < 1456878840 539930 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been focusing on getting it working, not getting it looking nice < 1456878848 484469 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a whole bunch of <> and I think some +- < 1456878861 243191 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456878873 786371 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1456878882 309089 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generates ASCII art banners < 1456878948 505445 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes a string in input and prints a rendering of that string using just space and # < 1456878952 229601 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1456879010 806148 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the font b_jonas is designing < 1456879171 481731 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One type of brainfuck derivative I could never hate is one that uses novel data structures or types as its primitive- either instead of the tape or instead of the integers < 1456879362 436211 :idyllei!~idyllei@cpe-67-240-233-37.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456879655 929445 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the font? < 1456879674 621572 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique, one b_jonas designed and shared with me < 1456879684 958646 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: At least run bf.replace('<>', '') on the program... < 1456879685 569927 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I've lost the appropriate links < 1456879701 704260 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. Is it as nice as \oren\'s? :D < 1456879720 413409 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least, it was more immediately available < 1456879767 225670 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What do you think would be good for an esolang practical enough that people can use it, but esoteric enough to be interesting? < 1456879767 359191 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope I win this competition < 1456879780 693981 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Competition? < 1456879788 617631 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Sounds like you have a good shot :) < 1456879806 836401 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Humo sounds neat. < 1456879812 294013 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], my uni's electronics society is running a brainfuck programming competition < 1456879821 147370 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Humo? < 1456879823 693110 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ego demanded I demonstrate I'm the best in my uni at brainfuck < 1456879827 479246 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Awesome xD < 1456879835 464884 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fpetrola/humo < 1456879839 284867 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I don't see how you could lose < 1456879848 399474 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also https://esolangs.org/wiki/Humo < 1456879853 703859 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I made a proof assistant based on s/// notation already :) < 1456879871 795727 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], well, the deadline is just listed as "the 2nd of March", and I submitted this at 00:15 < 1456879882 448842 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Ah < 1456879898 634068 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've submitted solutions for all the easier challenges, though < 1456879911 309571 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Wait, but does that mean at the beginning or end of march 2? < 1456879918 816210 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got no idea < 1456879921 55413 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Oh, this wasn't your own project? < 1456879934 355122 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: As in, your own idea for a freestyle competition < 1456879935 584740 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume not the latter as the winner is announced at 2 < 1456879942 347971 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1456879956 880098 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk, the program overflows when given a 0xFF character as input < 1456879969 709028 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISQUALIFIED < 1456879971 736063 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't my idea, but I think I'm the only person who attempted it < 1456879980 192499 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1456879986 313559 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: How'd you generate it? < 1456879996 913981 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], Haskell script < 1456880002 829445 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1456880022 982979 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a fairly regular structure, it's just really tedious and finicky < 1456880035 524534 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a whole load of improvements I can make < 1456880038 86260 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Did the competition include specifications about the particular bf dialect? < 1456880063 446105 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I recommend you start maintaining it as FOSS and get it included in some distribution of Linux as a standard command xD < 1456880067 893195 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bit word size, EOF is no change, 30000-length tape aborting on memory error < 1456880080 150687 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1456880080 827727 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters 3,4,5,6 look so asymmetric < 1456880094 615374 :idyllei!~idyllei@cpe-67-240-233-37.rochester.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456880109 48030 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to feed it to tryitonline < 1456880162 530044 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now must wait a year for it to output < 1456880191 988665 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did this: for i in $(seq 255); do echo $i; echo ${i}P | dc | ./a.out banner.bf; done ... where a.out is a brainfuck interpreter) < 1456880202 422522 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], for the purpose of this competition the reference interpreter is https://copy.sh/brainfuck/ < 1456880203 80590 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use printf. < 1456880241 466081 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it's an 8 bit version) < 1456880255 661409 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, it should work fine on an 8-bit interpreter < 1456880282 585395 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it does, except for character 255 < 1456880299 453418 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, shit, I can see why that would happen < 1456880301 470297 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Do I pass it input with ! or what? < 1456880313 178376 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], depends on your brainfuck implementation < 1456880325 794116 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give it input as normal for your implementation < 1456880328 793479 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: With the reference < 1456880352 239695 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a little input box under the output box < 1456880374 982844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456880375 116116 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1456880401 849294 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's amazing < 1456880420 220902 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Bookmarked the paste < 1456880437 245028 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1456880444 476345 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: An example of a language of that form is a TM+MM+BF description language < 1456880447 707400 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for now All Rights Reserved probably < 1456880453 848523 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: xD < 1456880477 557609 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't redistribute it without asking me < 1456880481 222876 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456880492 889871 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You should FOSS it when the competition ends and start actively maintaining it as a joke. < 1456880514 717824 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: What strategies are used to generate BF as such? Is there something I could read on this? < 1456880537 394991 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456880551 561811 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], I'm using a couple things from around the internet and a lot of things on the inside of my head < 1456880562 149638 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456880588 507261 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf program is not very hard to write (assuming you know some essential tricks like [-]) as long as you don't need arrays < 1456880590 712136 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I linked something this afternoon about brainfuck control structures < 1456880602 39375 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, this... this uses arrays < 1456880642 802953 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: to be exact, free-form arrays? I guess you store your text up somewhere and seek to the beginning or end by [<] or [>] < 1456880652 904062 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it oerjan who determined that 3-cell BF is Turing complete? < 1456880654 5581 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, sort of ish < 1456880658 613580 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique, yeah < 1456880663 477573 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a fun day :) < 1456880670 648776 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: If one were to make a brainfuck that was made for much easier development (while still remaining esoteric), what instructions and changes do you think would be crucial? < 1456880673 994682 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :explicit arrays are harder, and multiple arrays at once are much harder < 1456880676 556977 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, I'm actually storing 20 copies of each character, with a bunch of cells of working space < 1456880677 421615 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is turning into an interview xD) < 1456880694 170815 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is your banner 20 lines high? :p < 1456880697 714083 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, yeah < 1456880700 474507 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1456880721 699008 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], I think it would require enough changes to be not brainfuck at all any more before it's easy to use < 1456880731 442597 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I would have used a pair of cells instead, but yeah, that shouldn't really matter < 1456880734 994837 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't program in brainfuck because it's easy < 1456880740 480336 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I program in it because it's hard < 1456880752 855435 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Not "easy", but "easier" < 1456880760 96359 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, and then I'm doing [<<...<<] with 200 or so to apply an axiom/theorem/lemma as a fixpoint, which applies it to the string until it stops changing < 1456882036 767113 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's ?, which yields the set of the current string AND the current string when you apply thelemax < 1456882052 281382 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thelemax is short for theorem/lemma/axiom, and is used a lot in the docs) < 1456882075 186603 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So you prove things by substituting using PCRE regexes on a known string, and you get new strings that represent your proof < 1456882109 901415 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Though future versions will support regex styles other than PCRE- e.g. Pure Kleene Regexes and standard regexes < 1456882115 594412 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, raw strings < 1456882168 165537 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett? < 1456882177 252368 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme see. < 1456882184 926280 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Best of all, I even have a Thoof interpreter working, partially < 1456882189 286946 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, one sec, let me publish it < 1456882214 42873 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right, I see what you're doing here. < 1456882221 960101 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what a formal system is? < 1456882237 676772 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett: I think someone did that already <-- pikhq's bfm which was renamed to something else - pickle? < 1456882345 702945 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: https://github.com/ZodiacWorkingGroup/Thoof < 1456882369 934193 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, yes I do < 1456882371 178933 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1456882382 124516 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Note that y/// and ? don't yet work; I just added them today < 1456882391 785174 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, y/// might not have been today, but I think it was) < 1456882402 759131 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To the docs, that is, not to the code) < 1456882437 34782 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: construct.thoof is the file with the working, tested code in it < 1456882473 419552 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, Thue is already a language for specifying formal systems. < 1456882486 996439 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, yes it is < 1456882506 757869 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semi-thue systems < 1456882531 19927 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Did I do something wrong? xD < 1456882541 467130 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, lemme keep typing. < 1456882546 225284 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456882555 500820 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've taken Thue, extended it, and also built a system for specifying specific Thue derivations. < 1456882573 954070 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you want to do the analogous thing for brainfuck, you'll build a system for specifying specific brainfuck derivations. < 1456882574 87472 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One problem with IRC: None of the "x is typing" stuff fancy new chat things have) < 1456882582 101479 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh no... < 1456882587 198219 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (thelemax is short for theorem/lemma/axiom, and is used a lot in the docs) <-- i'm pretty sure that word belongs in the other #esoterics hth < 1456882587 484476 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that raises a question: what is a brainfuck derivation? < 1456882621 2967 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So "specific Thue derivations" means what exactly? < 1456882637 898783 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specific ways of following the rules with a given start string in order to end with a given end string. < 1456882638 73029 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Also, note that you have to call substitution rules manually; they aren't automated < 1456882650 177928 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1456882650 731172 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. The derivation is the sequence of calls. < 1456882668 517529 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two "problems" with the idea of a brainfuck derivation. < 1456882676 318303 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still call them in Thue-like fashion, by putting the desired ruleset in a theorem and fixpointing it (@) < 1456882687 183127 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm sure one is that BF is imperative < 1456882693 40469 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is that brainfuck, unlike Thue, is deterministic. Given a starting state and a program, there's only one way that you can proceed. < 1456882704 546570 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes < 1456882716 732008 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I think there's another word for that < 1456882736 552327 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean Thue is probabilistic, which is implementation-defined < 1456882795 464533 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other "problem" is that brainfuck code works by taking a starting tape state (or tape segment state) and ending with another tape (segment) state. < 1456882826 220919 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, resolving the first "problem" seems easy, I think. Just add more instructions, which are nondeterministic. < 1456882848 520793 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I can't tell what you mean by "deterministic" and "nondeterministic" here, based on what I assume they mean < 1456882856 829023 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the second "problem"... I'll tell you what I can tell you and I'll let you run with it. < 1456882894 119555 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Deterministic" means "given the state for a time step, there is at most one possible state for the following time step". < 1456882915 225682 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1456882938 229025 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I was thinking deterministic was non-probabilistic, but a search tells me probabilistic is a subset of nondeterministic < 1456882975 733331 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. A nondeterministic system simply says something like "proceed to either A or B". A probabilistic system, on the other hand, says something like "proceed to A with probability 0.5, B otherwise". < 1456882979 418500 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So in this case, nondeterministic is like Algebra where you can rewrite in multiple different ways? < 1456882998 333087 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'd say algebra is an example of a nondeterministic system. < 1456883003 34574 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456883041 616665 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue and brainfuck both involve a concept which is ubiquitous in programming, and also elsewhere in mathematics. They both involve specifying ways of going from one state to another state. < 1456883059 127293 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So can you clarify the second problem? I don't quite get it < 1456883090 523941 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Thue, what the "states" are and what the "ways of going" are are pretty straightforward. The "states" are the various strings that you can have as... y'know, the program state. < 1456883095 440865 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "ways of going" are the individual rules. < 1456883130 780224 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456883133 358081 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In brainfuck, it's a little more subtle. The "states" are states of the tape... but are they states of the entire tape, or states of just pieces of the tape? < 1456883146 578712 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah... < 1456883158 323293 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest answer is "they're states of the entire tape". And that's a totally valid answer. < 1456883167 84991 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like how different code will use different areas of the tape? < 1456883179 621906 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that... probably. < 1456883205 664822 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the problem with "they're states of the entire tape" is that... well, it's that every single piece of code has to be seen as affecting the entire tape. < 1456883212 216102 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which might be a little inflexible. < 1456883220 827408 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I mean the fact that, without running code, you can't determine what cells will and will not be used < 1456883228 536430 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if we exclude ,) < 1456883245 692851 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Perhaps I could do something with a 2-tape < 1456883246 131065 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is true... < 1456883248 428431 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1456883255 544802 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme work with an example. < 1456883261 870419 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider the following piece of brainfuck code: + < 1456883282 130328 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you have 8 cells that each rule can use, and at the end (and only at the end) of a rule, you transition to another group of 8 cells < 1456883293 814126 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's what that code does, under the "states of the entire tape" choice: < 1456883334 288836 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, you can guarantee that the code will only use those 8 cells < 1456883336 817179 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes a tape, and returns a tape where the active cell is the same cell as in the original tape, and all of the cells have the same value, except that the active cell contains a value equal to one plus its prior value. < 1456883346 904365 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's what that code does, under the "states of just pieces of the tape" choice: < 1456883355 912569 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not just brainfuck that lets you do math, the idea is it's something novel that is vaguely inspired by brainfuck < 1456883360 388797 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes a tape cell, and returns a cell containing a value equal to one plus the prior value. < 1456883378 979253 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, I get it. I think that's what I said earlier < 1456883392 233348 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter style is easier to talk about because it just doesn't mention the rest of the tape at all. < 1456883453 680971 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, here's how I think it's going to look. < 1456883454 721880 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With BF\IO, you pretty much can't determine what cells a fragment of code will modify (given the current active cell number and the fragment) short of running the code < 1456883470 646778 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And especially if the area of the tape has potentially been modified before < 1456883470 992491 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Dis14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46482&oldid=30820 5* 0394.12.170.129 5* (-2) 10fixed the wayback link < 1456883473 372871 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Axioms are pieces of extended-brainfuck code. < 1456883478 168315 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456883483 461638 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I was thinking < 1456883485 440573 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorems have three pieces. < 1456883491 29913 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listening < 1456883519 324881 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, the starting state of the tape segment. Second, the ending state of the tape segment. Third, a way of using axioms to get from the starting state to the ending state. < 1456883532 920211 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep? < 1456883547 48848 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's pretty much that. < 1456883550 306992 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting state and ending state? < 1456883558 748659 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about them? < 1456883560 516344 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One sec < 1456883576 31885 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me read back, I may have accidentally expunged crucial information from my short-term memory < 1456883592 292872 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, there are two ways of taking theorems and getting new theorems. First, you can take a theorem with a given ending state, and another theorem whose starting state is the same, and string those two theorems together. < 1456883614 966055 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The "state" is the values on a tape fragment, correct? < 1456883619 280856 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second, you can take a theorem and add additional cells to the beginning and/or end of the starting and ending states. < 1456883620 873551 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1456883636 93473 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if (0) -> (3) is a theorem, then (0,42) -> (3,42) is also a theorem. < 1456883637 524368 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting... < 1456883669 821081 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So the start -> end part isn't stored, because of the large number of possible transitions? < 1456883699 991084 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456883715 789978 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, like I said, a theorem has those three pieces: starting state, ending state, and sequence of... steps. Storing the theorem means storing all three of those pieces. < 1456883726 604676 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1456883769 511423 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So a theorem stores a relation between two values and a list of thelemax references? < 1456883781 466420 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds right. < 1456883792 135248 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, a constrained in value and an equation that you run on that value to calculate the out value < 1456883826 691073 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, except I don't think the word "equation" is the right word there. < 1456883832 530149 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Formula? < 1456883849 791302 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be a program, or a sequence of programs, where you specify choices for all of the nondeterministic bits of the program. < 1456883852 15296 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That message just referred to the relation < 1456883869 383913 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1456883877 707061 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to the list of axioms < 1456883880 156839 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, yeah, exactly. < 1456883893 374640 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're actually getting ahead of what I was saying—which is good. < 1456883906 393704 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1456883917 759644 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Also, do you have any suggestions for things to make Thoof better (based on what you've heard), or any other languages that could be made into proof assistants after I do this? < 1456883919 807448 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I'd only mentioned theorems with one specific in value and one specific out value. But it makes sense to extend that as much as you like. < 1456883932 129323 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thoof is the proof system inspired by Thue? < 1456883941 756766 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, forgot to mention that < 1456883966 476697 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Not sure about Thoof, but let me think about other languages to make into proof assistants. < 1456883976 836648 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're insane, try ///. < 1456883993 917959 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whose wiki page is, of course: http://esolangs.org/wiki//// < 1456884018 498600 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456884024 674383 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Isn't that what I did? Or is /// self-modifying? < 1456884027 256746 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider doing it for Unlambda. < 1456884032 326790 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/// is self-modifying. < 1456884058 600995 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda and /// are both deterministic. But, as always, it's easy to make a deterministic language non-deterministic: just add additional instructions. < 1456884082 583248 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, here's how I'd suggest making /// nondeterministic. < 1456884092 380509 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm definitely making an Unlambda one xD < 1456884106 59252 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, the specification says that when you're performing a substitution, you find the first instance of the pattern string and replace it with the replacement string. < 1456884106 713134 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, unlambda practically already /is/ a proof assistant < 1456884125 726402 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the nondeterministic version: find *any* instance of the pattern string and replace it with the replacement string. < 1456884136 772958 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh... < 1456884150 836298 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let the mathgrammer choose which instance it is? < 1456884158 454569 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the program "/***/zebra/*****" could output "zebra**", "*zebra*", or "**zebra". < 1456884160 122811 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1456884177 987814 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In /// as it is, there's only one possible output: "zebra**". < 1456884181 111740 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Perhaps I should just put that in Thoof? For simplicity? < 1456884191 492651 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I mean, thoof isn't meant to be uber-minimal < 1456884200 732747 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be usable, but non-conventional < 1456884204 726896 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put what in Thoof? < 1456884213 159188 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The ability to choose which is replace < 1456884214 218093 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1456884227 611815 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed that you already had that as a feature, actually. < 1456884239 403490 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: As it is, thoof just replaces the first instance of the regex with its substitution when it's called < 1456884242 11258 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1456884252 630616 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when an axiom is called/applied < 1456884271 468711 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do you do if you want to replace a different instance instead? < 1456884288 940662 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You make sure the regexes and strings are set up so that you don't xD < 1456884295 907106 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: But that's a good point that I didn't think of < 1456884303 536020 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I was already considering a {} notation < 1456884315 375824 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'd definitely put that in Thoof for simplicity. < 1456884320 388469 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456884333 108517 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, of course, you like the complications produced by not having that in Thoof. < 1456884340 11990 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't xD < 1456884342 599110 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not completely < 1456884367 732718 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thelemax{n} replaces the nth instance, thelemax{:n} replaces all up to the nth instance, thelemax{n:} replaces all starting with the nth instance, and thelemax{n} replaces the nth instance, thelemax{:n} replaces all up to the nth instance, thelemax{n:m} replaces all starting at n and ending at m? < 1456884382 654254 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All :x are not inclusive, and x: are inclusive < 1456884431 374792 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That syntax look good? < 1456884465 94599 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like that. Also allow the user to specify multiple non-contiguous instances: {1,6,7,10000} < 1456884470 963211 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ah, yes < 1456884476 908837 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: And, of course, specify from the end < 1456884480 822463 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a question: how many instances of "***" are there in "******"? < 1456884484 888470 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion, there are four. < 1456884491 802314 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 4 < 1456884518 441693 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise, three instances of "abba" in "abbabbabba". < 1456884523 445213 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The thing will go with overlapping matches, for generality < 1456884548 6642 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the user tries to replace two overlapping instances simultaneously, that's probably an error. < 1456884561 610472 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I thought of letting Thoof use a small unix-like filesystem to store data too xD < 1456884573 623732 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, while we're at it, possibly thelemaxes) < 1456884584 676235 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yeah, probably < 1456884609 430617 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what happens if, in the string "abbabbabbabbabbabbabbabbabbabbabbabbabbabbabbabba", I use thelemax{3:5}, where my thelemax turns "abba" into "jonsi"? < 1456884617 839666 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace what thou wilt shall be the whole of the instance < 1456884632 579634 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that an error, since instances 3 and 4, and likewise 4 and 5, are overlapping? < 1456884687 269359 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The third and fourth instances of abba are replaced with jonsi. What else would happen? < 1456884697 532109 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1456884699 245511 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overlap < 1456884716 670564 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Note that it terminates one instance early, like in Python < 1456884718 571894 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no < 1456884729 66376 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make it index from 1 for logic's sake < 1456884742 651336 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could say it's an error. You could also say that, going from left to right, it chooses all of the instances that don't overlap with a previously chosen instance. < 1456884755 108749 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case you could have syntax for deciding whether you want to go from left to right, or from right to left. < 1456884776 778930 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: negative numbers work from the right, like in Python < 1456884787 336740 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it makes sense and there's no reason not to < 1456884824 112267 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's no confusion because you can't use a variable or anything in {}, as the only variables are theorems/lemmas/axioms, which can't be numbers) < 1456884857 917502 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That idea's good too... < 1456884863 162989 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could just be a matter of {3:5} versus {5:3}. < 1456884875 879861 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps [] should be non-overlapping, while- oh, yeah, good point < 1456884896 344526 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, that was unrelated, wasn't it < 1456884904 162245 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] will not overlap, but {} will < 1456884914 431234 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{} will raise an error on overlaps < 1456885328 48565 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( banananananananana... ) < 1456885349 883783 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I once wrote a program with the express purpose of doing that < 1456885651 525200 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr. Hppavilion[1]'s Patented Banana Proliferaton Programme, Enhanced With the Purest of Potassiums. Guaranteed to Cure your Personal Ailments! < 1456885685 15634 :andrew_!~andrew@119.137.99.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456885715 871677 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that should be Dr. Hppavilion[1] < 1456885733 363927 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: are you a doctor? are you even a mister? < 1456885750 101606 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he does look misterious < 1456885758 384068 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lightly prods hppavilion[1] with his mapole, just to make sure
< 1456885773 741508 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thwacks oerjan
< 1456885818 393013 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how brutal < 1456885858 947600 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pun registered at least 0.8 shachafs. < 1456886207 692516 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think hppavilion[1]'s secret is now uncovered. he isn't human, or at least appröximatively human. < 1456886245 261289 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: CYCLOPEAN CHICKEN < 1456886887 520307 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456887038 65962 :andrew_!~andrew@119.137.99.104 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456887636 489678 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456887847 427362 :andrew_!~andrew@14.154.164.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456888441 392373 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456888488 701181 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm back < 1456888654 270220 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ḧ < 1456888665 919625 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1E27 LATIN SMALL LETTER H WITH DIAERESIS] < 1456888715 224704 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ḧëllö, ḧppävïlïön[1]. < 1456888735 519926 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456889038 657264 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1456889599 383555 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hi < 1456889604 127362 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Forgot to respond xD < 1456890472 11282 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456891680 608571 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1456891953 780225 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan, helloily, tswello, heppavellolion[1] :) < 1456893698 9538 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456894164 802424 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 NICK :bender < 1456894173 769377 :bender!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 QUIT :Changing host < 1456894173 902632 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456894244 405644 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a long time since I did esoteric stuff < 1456894268 446189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome bender < 1456894273 427279 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bender: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1456894609 522832 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456894720 469749 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one did you do in past (if any)? < 1456894749 449182 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzhello38 < 1456894776 17913 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any tricks for linear logic? < 1456894895 842900 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1456895080 768870 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want to add into JavaScript a goto command which can implement a kind of "evasive exception", for example: function test() { again: xyzzy(()=>{goto again;}); return 1; } It cannot be caught by "catch" blocks, but "finally" can still partially catch it. What is your opinion of this? < 1456895127 295466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems dubious to me. < 1456895131 756802 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course it won't work if the that function that does goto again is called after test function returns; it such case it is error and is caught by a catch block.) < 1456895154 700890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not make it work the second time, so you get a continuation thing? < 1456895248 36873 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think JavaScript does not use continuations? But if it can be made to do so, then it might. However, then there is the case if a different part of the program does not want it to work a second time. < 1456895367 379447 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For generator functions it is a bit more easily though < 1456895564 392022 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Jumping into any block is also going to be error, but depending how it is written it may be a syntax error which is seen before the program is executed.) < 1456895713 994468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, "return" means the function is finished and is not allowed to continue, isn't it? < 1456895913 156265 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that in the example given, the "again" is local to the instance of the function call, as if it was "var x" and it passed a function that mentions "x", it is the "x" of this function call, too (but that is a variable and doesn't need the function to continue after it returns in order to use that variable) < 1456895968 905560 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you would write "goto again;" outside of the function definition then the label called "again" is not in scope so it is an error. < 1456895976 315487 :impomatic!~impomatic@79.16.114.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456896039 211347 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having "goto" would also make it easier for a JavaScript program to compile other stuff into a JavaScript program (such as with "new Function"). < 1456896094 34513 :impomatic_!~digital_w@79.16.114.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456896129 857019 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else would you do it? One idea would be to first convert the other code into basic blocks, but and then what? < 1456896337 158363 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456896642 498847 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456896931 375127 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456897031 396516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, the whole !A -o B and !A -o ?B thing makes perfect sense < 1456897043 69688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also presumably A -o ?B for dual intuitionistic logic < 1456897092 668619 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to start implementing software in abstract machines... < 1456897553 254037 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of abstract machines? < 1456897748 246981 :andrew__!~andrew@113.97.177.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456897851 959941 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Tag systems, for example < 1456897871 73724 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps in some way augmented, but it's doubtful < 1456897929 365228 :andrew_!~andrew@14.154.164.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456898311 486983 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a programming language for constructing pseudo-operating systems where various components are first-class objects? < 1456898319 759020 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that's stupid and I don't understand OSes < 1456899154 686237 :pdxleif!znc@ec2-54-68-166-10.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456899619 827819 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456899699 281928 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You're still online. Is this because you never log off but are currently sleeping, or are you actually on? < 1456900471 632917 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1456900490 632972 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, with my current setup it'll be a huge pain in the ass to properly make Thoof work < 1456900905 668660 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456901450 248236 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456901613 468620 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: do you properly do unicode CNF normalization on the string before you get the glyphs from the font? < 1456901744 485295 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-trxjjqzakeduegsm QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456901870 164533 :heroux!~heroux@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-yladneeucqbbtpzm JOIN :#esoteric < 1456901934 187790 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1456902359 289741 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re evasive exceptions: perl has exactly that. there are some compications if you want to exit through xs functions (depending on how exactly they call back to perl), sort blocks, regex code blocks, and other strange constructs. You may be able to leave with an exception, a goto, both, or neither, depending on the construct and the version of perl. < 1456902409 915486 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ruby also sort of has something like this, in that there are more things than exceptions that you can throw, and a catch catches only exceptions, but I'm not sure there's a finally construct that catches all the others. There's no full-powered goto though. < 1456902626 585644 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: specifically, things you can throw are exceptions, four loop control statements which act on the function that got passed the lexically curretn ruby-like yield callback block as a yield argument (break (=perl's last), next, redo, retry (jumps to before the function call)), function return, plus internal fatal error thingies like out of memory that you can't catch. < 1456902675 642565 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1456902785 296764 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's also a callcc, which is nastier. I think it makes a copy of the C stack or something. I think it still tries to run some finalize blocks, but I'm not sure if there's a corresponding scheme-like on-enter block too. < 1456902800 127220 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For search, finally is called ensure in ruby. < 1456902847 182792 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby's non-exact gc (at least in ruby 1.8, I don't know if they replaced it) helps this sort of thing of course. < 1456904423 76032 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Taneb mentioned your font, and I was curious to see it < 1456904440 785325 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't mind :) < 1456904689 339564 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456904689 798428 :staffehn!~quassel@92.222.23.218 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456904743 23480 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456904841 312031 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456905106 364568 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1456905202 383018 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1456905241 37229 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456905268 524123 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456905472 986205 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: It's jsut the font in the program < 1456906213 429864 :bender!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456906223 837038 :bender!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 QUIT :Changing host < 1456906223 976653 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456906267 489585 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456906536 397567 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Do you do a lot of stuff with Proof Assistants? Your name implies you might < 1456906602 529553 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I wouldn't say a lot. I do like to play with them, though. < 1456906638 495814 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually work at a design firm, right now, so the use case for proof assistants rarely comes up. :| < 1456907491 945338 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though if GSS were a little more ready, I could conceivably make use of a constraint solver :D < 1456907618 708122 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: GSS? < 1456907636 451799 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, you didn't ping me so I missed the messages xD < 1456908231 906262 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: http://gridstylesheets.org/ < 1456908242 616240 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1456908244 835826 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds fancy < 1456908308 120872 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, hell no, I just take the first 256 glyphs in the font and hope they're in the right order < 1456908376 934759 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I'm looking for something novel to prove with, I was just seeing if you could help xD < 1456908469 243729 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456908754 713301 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I'm still kind of fascinated by Lemuridae, to be honest. < 1456908783 240789 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456908964 530467 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456910187 657626 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456912009 445492 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1456912760 49569 :jaboja64!~jaboja@ejb123.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456913711 506547 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456914178 424340 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456915306 59774 :primo!~primo@122.155.138.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456915713 839616 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456915971 809002 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456916255 494639 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1456917907 525716 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-153-193.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456917923 363772 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456918742 507366 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1456918742 678409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1456918773 940553 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :question of the day: if I don't have any massages, did shachaf write anything? < 1456918871 47746 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily yes < 1456918871 181291 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1456918879 885816 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanelle < 1456918886 732248 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-quiet < 1456918886 875042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1456918889 878455 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages < 1456919071 127002 :primo!~primo@122.155.138.138 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1456919361 528578 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456919623 406213 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456919681 996633 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456919801 19472 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456919941 925984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456920170 441278 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456920318 10569 :jaboja64!~jaboja@ejb123.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456920854 497264 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456921321 942696 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: PACKET CHICKEN < 1456921711 662318 :bender!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456922788 927172 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456922846 196336 :andrew__!~andrew@113.97.177.247 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456923088 562456 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456923766 960635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456924777 547415 :bender!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1456924832 25849 :bender!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456926313 56155 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456927042 42818 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456927205 481807 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03RaHorakhti 5* 10New user account < 1456927847 998515 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1456928033 380453 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1456928261 928557 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456929305 153213 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that brainfuck program I shared in the early hours of this morning may be one of the longest ones in existence < 1456930076 183244 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Was it generated? < 1456930155 384772 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456930565 6940 :bender!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456930671 405747 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456930942 362284 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456931011 2132 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1456931313 579515 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what did it do? < 1456931622 37459 :MaskedFox!ad267542@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.38.117.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456932067 306098 :spiette!~spiette@206.167.243.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456932420 455979 :MaskedFox!ad267542@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.38.117.66 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456932426 32418 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: https://arin.ga/FQLSPy/ ? it is just over 200K, which is not really the biggest < 1456932444 43646 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lost Kingdom BF edition is about 2MB < 1456932483 843240 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, the whole !A -o B and !A -o ?B thing makes perfect sense <-- i fear that we have lost shachaf < 1456932507 898570 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Q14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46483 5* 03RaHorakhti 5* (+2813) 10Created page with "The Qabalah language ('''Q''') is not only an esoteric programming language, but it is also an [[Category:Occult languages|occult programming language]]. The first version of..." < 1456932559 712243 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh, an esoteric esoteric programming language < 1456932634 991678 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which only looks esoteric, not esoteric esoteric < 1456932690 516226 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is esoteric esoteric? < 1456932694 851824 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Q14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46484&oldid=46483 5* 03RaHorakhti 5* (+1) 10 < 1456932746 555135 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, esoteric in both senses < 1456932787 696878 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Category:Occult languages14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46485 5* 03RaHorakhti 5* (+83) 10Created page with "Occult languages are esoteric languages that also has an occult focus of some kind." < 1456932831 210593 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-190-108.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1456932892 724528 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10deleted "[[02Category:Occult languages10]]": Creating category without discussion against [[Esolang:Policy]] < 1456932902 266744 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the foot, it came down hth < 1456932939 702980 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46486&oldid=46472 5* 03RaHorakhti 5* (+8) 10 < 1456933320 792020 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Q14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46487&oldid=46484 5* 03RaHorakhti 5* (-1) 10 < 1456933499 954068 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] I never log off (if I can help it). < 1456933500 87514 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1456933542 130615 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:RaHorakhti14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46488 5* 03RaHorakhti 5* (+135) 10Created page with "My name is Per Löwgren, you can find some of my work at [https://bitbucket.org/perlowgren BitBucket]. I've created the language [[Q]]." < 1456933587 352874 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456933857 508519 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456934814 456853 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1456934836 561641 :spiette_!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456934875 846556 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1456934883 26349 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Q14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46489&oldid=46487 5* 03RaHorakhti 5* (-62) 10 < 1456934884 362817 :spiette!~spiette@206.167.243.3 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1456934892 696876 :spiette_!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca NICK :spiette < 1456935115 248091 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1456935170 817466 :haavardp!freebsd@haavard.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1456935246 355009 :shikhin_!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1456935268 741221 :sewilton_!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsswuvdhbntvxenf JOIN :#esoteric < 1456935332 995831 :sewilton!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mexroarmzsbbzblv QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1456935333 270119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456935333 436873 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ugnldacvsdtlqwyx QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1456935334 29005 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456935334 412706 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1456935334 546005 :haavard!freebsd@haavard.me QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1456935334 831831 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1456935343 520970 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session QUIT :Changing host < 1456935343 654625 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg JOIN :#esoteric < 1456935439 620506 :sewilton_!sid32560@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsswuvdhbntvxenf NICK :sewilton < 1456935474 25330 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja JOIN :#esoteric < 1456935520 609426 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1456936413 764807 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Policy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46490&oldid=43620 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+8) 10Make it clearer this points to where discussions should happen < 1456936474 925245 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456937250 492748 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1456937725 473051 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456937760 57410 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456937860 177074 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456937881 387111 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456937895 676928 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456937905 833606 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456938144 323024 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456939550 241151 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1456939740 317108 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1456940445 57194 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456940614 67771 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456941756 528332 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456942264 11821 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1456942855 362398 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456942967 23277 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456943005 291895 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456943051 134712 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456944634 422254 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456945526 502190 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456945823 348719 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Greetings < 1456945830 633150 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-lud < 1456945830 766516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett said 3h 25m 30s ago: I never log off (if I can help it). < 1456945976 242257 :augur!~augur@12.251.228.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456946320 387109 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456947031 524942 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456947224 863727 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any x/// expressions other than s and y? < 1456947302 230488 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett? < 1456947471 244716 :augur!~augur@12.251.228.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456947529 545879 :augur!~augur@12.251.228.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456947678 16959 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1456949059 568924 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456949488 731106 :Nithogg!~ethiraric@jrc16-h01-176-150-43-109.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1456949493 516881 :shikhin_!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1456949519 87941 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456949764 798888 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456950021 31070 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456950147 780948 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456950426 431332 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone else just have the whole ban list dumped to channel? < 1456950434 991147 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by just, I mean two hours ago? < 1456950453 467866 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe irssi's just being weird < 1456950622 953941 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1456950656 833340 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: you probably sent /mode #esoteric +b < 1456950705 483700 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I'd have done that :| < 1456950720 70095 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My whole status buffer was full of /who lists at that time, too < 1456950741 720518 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope my poor ZNC didn't have a seizure < 1456950911 664654 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456950999 137230 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456951169 624222 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456951198 871375 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what else I should need to add into my JavaScript Xlib? < 1456951244 334254 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What does it do? < 1456951250 820250 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is Xlib for X? < 1456951254 707285 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it need a command to draw a stack of pictures? < 1456951256 581360 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The windowing system)? < 1456951260 17137 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes Xlib for X window system < 1456951271 362396 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh I HATE pulseaudio. < 1456951282 862235 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is this on the desktop for JS, or is it an emulator that runs in-browser? < 1456951297 290385 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a JavaScript program to access Xlib (and also the C program) < 1456951302 966221 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: It is for use with Node.js < 1456951305 712697 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK < 1456951314 269599 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What do you mean by "A stack of pictures"? < 1456951321 721540 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you mean like save() and restore()? < 1456951365 27020 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a function X.Drawable.prototype.drawPicture but I would mean, a command to draw multiple pictures in the same place all at once (if it doesn't have it you can still just use drawPicture multiple times, but as a single command might be more efficient?) < 1456951381 483505 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wasted 3 hours of my life on figuring out a) that I need it b) how to start it (it was stumbling over a leftover socket file in /var/run... but of course I got a descriptive error message: bind(): socket already in use) and c) why I need it... to play videos with sound in Firefox. < 1456951431 867150 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the answer to c) is that the HTML5 stuff uses libpulse to play audio, which will only talk to a pulseaudio server) < 1456951457 895370 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but apparently isn't smart enough to start one when none is running) < 1456951492 344218 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not really like pulseaudio either, although it is already set up in my computer anyways so I do not need to do anything. < 1456951515 179955 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it's cruft that solves a non-problem < 1456951525 115874 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I agree < 1456951526 962303 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(playing sound from different sources simultaneously) < 1456951542 967727 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other commands I would be planning to add are X.Drawable.prototype.pushGC, X.Drawable.prototype.popGC, and X.Drawable.prototype.drawMacro < 1456952173 928453 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH! In HTML webpages, why don't people use images with alt text versus images with empty alt text versus background images the semantically right way? < 1456952181 886486 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just so stupid. < 1456952236 113913 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1456952241 523021 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ /The final frontier. < 1456952285 502912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom < 1456952287 799553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scow < 1456952293 574500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1456952293 997862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1456952294 224169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1456952320 391792 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc/IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays. < 1456952320 525221 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw/btw is short for "bury the weasel" < 1456952321 831858 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey/cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse. < 1456952353 609116 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :would mousse be a sharp rodent? < 1456952457 780282 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mousse < 1456952459 184663 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mousse? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456952560 421327 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ratatouille could be a stuttering rodent. < 1456952877 567928 :augur!~augur@12.251.228.138 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456952952 555476 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say dash (in Magic: the Gathering) can only go on creatures, but it is untrue; cards could be made that are not creatures and have dash (as long as it is not an instant, sorcery, or land). The haste is mostly meaningless in such case but still has it and in some cases can be used. < 1456953116 761042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The same is true of megamorph, although the +1/+1 counter in such case would ordinarily do nothing, when combined with undying, graft, and/or modular, it can do such thing even though it is not a creature.) < 1456953237 821362 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exploit also does not have to go only on creatures < 1456953337 605016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is that also true of super haste? < 1456953508 569054 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so, although it is irrelevant since super haste is not a standard rule for the normal game and is only for Un-cards. < 1456953584 8317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a card isn't a creature can you still put it on the battlefield with super haste? < 1456953648 417611 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no such rule as super haste. < 1456953743 263998 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74324 has it. < 1456953761 224696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you refuse to play with Un-cards? < 1456953889 899432 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily, although people would need to agree a different kind of game, sometimes it is necessary to argue about the rules, etc. < 1456953926 652849 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Necessary to argue about the rules? < 1456953938 156323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes it completely different from a regular Magic: The Gathering game. < 1456953943 977330 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider a card such as: {3} Artifact ;; Undying ;; Megamorph {1} ;; {T}, Sacrifice ~: Target player gains 2 life. < 1456953950 9102 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I know! < 1456953959 925059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I said "sometimes"! < 1456954138 604139 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456954149 919928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, my own ideas about how R&D's Secret Lair is working is different than what other people say (and they are also different from each other), but there is no rule to make such an effect work, so you have to argue about it. < 1456954258 567628 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My own opinion that the old Lightning Bolt with R&D's Secret Lair allows you to target any player, object, or zone; if the object is not a permanent, or is a permanent that isn't a creature or planeswalker, or is a zone other than the battlefield, nothing happens; if the target is the battlefield, each non-token creature and non-token planeswalker (including ones with shroud/hexproof, but not if it has protection from red) takes 3 points of damag < 1456954438 363347 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456954483 361921 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1456954534 647621 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456954566 442192 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456954642 496954 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :relation < 1456954646 81142 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1456954649 36022 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meant to ctrl+f < 1456954959 540429 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reads about the ending phase* ... could there be an infinite loop of cleanup steps... < 1456955080 864998 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-40-115.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1456955270 997168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456955331 695535 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ugh, trying to figure out BrainProof < 1456955916 127439 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1456956976 925558 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1456957244 172743 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456957548 790705 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1456957579 804916 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: [ < 1456957827 849675 :jaboja!~jaboja@aak26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456958215 500521 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1456958742 685114 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456959183 970752 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1456959576 434288 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1456959619 446439 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-65.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456959762 439219 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456960064 928263 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mousse < 1456960070 254520 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mousse? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456960112 144534 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : would mousse be a sharp rodent? <-- i'm not quite sure where you get "sharp" twh < 1456960163 879890 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1456960190 989244 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456960221 899698 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you got it, but anyway: a mousssse would be super extra sharp. < 1456960243 724590 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello. sharp mousse? < 1456960268 39263 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the logss < 1456960360 504952 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn A mousse is a sharp rodent. "A mousse once bit my sister." < 1456960369 316528 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I logsschecked. I still don't grok it. < 1456960369 890031 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'mousse': A mousse is a sharp rodent. "A mousse once bit my sister." < 1456960376 650050 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope the quote is accurate twh < 1456960385 460018 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan. you seem to be having understood it. < 1456960404 120407 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pun on ß, often written "ss". < 1456960445 322522 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really just an s with a scarf < 1456960463 361466 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll readily admit that it wasn't very inspired < 1456960474 633443 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lightly thwacks int-e
< 1456960478 451957 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.3 shachafs. < 1456960488 770434 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ß < 1456960490 88903 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ß? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456960499 88768 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ß is not a beta. < 1456960502 835894 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'ß': ß is not a beta. < 1456960508 87461 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1456960576 376701 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn_append ß It's a "scharfes S", aka s with a scarf. < 1456960581 896691 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'ß': ß is not a beta. It's a "scharfes S", aka s with a scarf. < 1456960609 657850 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err... with a scharf. < 1456960626 192631 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a schacharf. < 1456960634 870820 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: also, i didn't actually get it, i just got a different idea. < 1456960636 402542 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would omegpsi be a co-alphabet? < 1456960654 772813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i got it hth < 1456960678 826904 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thanks, always a pleasure to drag people down to my level < 1456960690 678121 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep: no, we have to consider the sk -> sch sound change in german hth < 1456960701 580298 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1456960723 498665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :schlerosis? < 1456960757 673229 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what's an omegpsi? < 1456960766 440570 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not Deutsch sprechen. < 1456960815 709120 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: just musing about the etymology of "alphabet" < 1456960832 682829 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I mean I don't even know what a co-alphabet would be. < 1456960844 760639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :coal phab et al. < 1456960872 195406 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it may be a little older than the borrowing of that medical term hth < 1456960894 693990 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh. makes sense. tdh < 1456960931 113833 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moi neither, je speake not le Deutsch. < 1456960932 216808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: hoily < 1456960937 692934 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hellochaf. < 1456960943 437135 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ratatouille < 1456960946 333359 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratatouille? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456960950 22808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :eye of newt and toe of frog / wing of bat and pooch of dog < 1456960953 710291 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1456960956 701159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :eye of newt and toe of frog / wool of bat and pooch of dog < 1456960981 513369 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn A ratatouille is a stuttering rodent. < 1456960985 144866 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'ratatouille': A ratatouille is a stuttering rodent. < 1456961014 472043 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you can add your own wisdom you know hth < 1456961044 824657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the game Lost Vikings 2, you collect a wing of bat to give to the witch to bring you home. < 1456961069 266465 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? til < 1456961072 278035 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL that TIL means Today I Learned < 1456961075 527822 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. you give a wing to bring back a bat??? < 1456961101 218134 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :til is also the most confusingest Norwegian word. < 1456961124 281831 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cognate to german "Ziel", which means goal, iirc < 1456961143 336644 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow it got press ganged into a preposition. < 1456961177 932797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no wisdom/til | sponge wisdom/til < 1456961183 499867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't even make sense < 1456961191 637458 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for a while it thus governed the genitive case, while our prepositions still did that sort of thing.) < 1456961215 295170 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few stock phrases still do that. "til sjøs" = at sea < 1456961233 705141 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«tille cheusse». < 1456961235 592894 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to the sea < 1456961244 239950 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can mean both, i think. < 1456961248 213978 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1456961255 197983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? norwegian < 1456961257 112306 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456961353 654026 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be confusing it with "til lands og til vanns" (a stock phrased used about a magical boat in a fairy tale that could sail on the ground or on the water, or even fly) < 1456961357 679944 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phrase < 1456961383 338327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1456961384 796287 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. < 1456961397 547517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spr/o som selleri < 1456961407 825526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spr(/) < 1456961408 590049 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and "til fots", by foot < 1456961428 116916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you considered that english is simpler than norwegian < 1456961429 13034 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: your wisdom lacks pooches hth < 1456961446 348130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily; then it reflects me < 1456961467 328771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1456961580 462 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : «tille cheusse». <-- that's pretty accurate pronunciationwise, i think < 1456961624 415211 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-aziaqzvnlkibwbaq QUIT :Excess Flood < 1456961632 251113 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think that's debatable. < 1456961672 883751 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spelling isn't quite as insane as english, anyway < 1456961689 395826 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although still not exactly a bijection < 1456961724 169182 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the genders don't help, i guess. otoh we have less verb inflection. < 1456961737 617307 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-nbvrrgwccsxtcwbh JOIN :#esoteric < 1456961770 465342 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no pesky progressive, and no person/number suffixes) < 1456961789 955618 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god, your language suck so hard! < 1456961792 380089 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even useful < 1456961797 132956 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete irc please < 1456961811 103513 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome nzt-fish < 1456961812 280130 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nzt-fish: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1456961835 782894 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm homosexual. Is that okay? < 1456961848 797254 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nzt-fish: you seem confused. and yes, that's okay. < 1456961865 481259 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck a lot of dicks. If you ban me, you're a homophobe < 1456961883 955020 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but trolling is not okay. < 1456961896 257529 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1456961907 966873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What about when you do it? < 1456961921 175778 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i mean boring trolling of course, duh < 1456961925 665413 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1456961930 327103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, no one wants that. < 1456962013 332870 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456962054 203274 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavellon[1]. < 1456962058 219151 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LOWI < 1456962058 489810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 022320Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 FEW007 BKN010 02/01 Q1003 < 1456962071 313223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@where weather) LOWI < 1456962072 884126 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : LOWI 022320Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 FEW007 BKN010 02/01 Q1003 < 1456962075 164149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better tdh < 1456962087 700877 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn_append shachaf The unit of bad punnery is named after him. < 1456962091 983927 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'shachaf': shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of bad punnery is named after him. < 1456962098 160721 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahoily, boily < 1456962106 829411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is there a wisdom entry for the unit of bad punnery? < 1456962122 688856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hey, you never made the temperature thing for lambdabot work. < 1456962137 769487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1456962142 238616 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well given that the unit is named "shachaf"... < 1456962158 545496 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? schaf < 1456962160 165882 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :schaf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456962171 772876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought it was "shachafs". < 1456962208 360944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cd wisdom; for f in *; do [ -e "$f"s ] && echo "$f"; done < 1456962209 829306 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :log \ math \ monad \ monoid \ the u < 1456962212 153019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? log < 1456962214 132775 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you might mean !logs < 1456962215 762917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? logs < 1456962217 62568 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​1113I05 08thin13k13 y09o10u06 05m02i12g08h05t14 m03ea10n08 02!11l06og09s11 < 1456962220 500606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? math < 1456962222 193671 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math class is tough! < 1456962223 187858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? maths < 1456962224 479169 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maths stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin. < 1456962226 84731 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm maybe < 1456962229 121127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1456962230 407876 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1456962233 316398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monads < 1456962234 585101 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras. < 1456962238 716427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? the u < 1456962240 18660 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The U are a very mad people. < 1456962241 540442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? the us < 1456962243 139041 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US is the country opposed to the THEM. < 1456962262 747051 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's way too accurate < 1456962271 360710 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's shachafs hth < 1456962277 560322 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well it would 1 shachaf, anyway. < 1456962295 916940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it's like flops < 1456962297 204118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 flops < 1456962300 68848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 flops < 1456962305 956742 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that doesn't sound like a proper SI unit < 1456962312 448361 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't pluralize those < 1456962316 338375 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf isn't very standard hth < 1456962344 217692 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, maybe english does < 1456962356 94446 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it 2.3 newton or newtons < 1456962358 59261 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn schaf/"Schaf" is german for "sheep". There is absolutely no relation to shachaf. < 1456962363 814750 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «schaf» < 1456962373 212298 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: why didn't you use `learn tdnh hth < 1456962382 626575 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because of the quotes < 1456962422 933804 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn " is a double quote, added to wisdom as a test. < 1456962428 152173 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned '"': " is a double quote, added to wisdom as a test. < 1456962432 844427 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1456962433 7742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought `learn handled those. < 1456962438 320251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not. < 1456962440 570985 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. < 1456962447 541726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: See, that's why no one trusts `learn. < 1456962470 531732 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the category of numbers, what are the morphisms? Does such a category even make sense (I have a feeling it might not)? < 1456962487 251586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's up to you. < 1456962496 744004 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Me? < 1456962507 937879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of categories where the objects are numbers, but you don't specify a category by specifying the objects. < 1456962511 20892 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you cannot use `revert to remove files hth < 1456962517 66270 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also categories where the arrows are numbers. < 1456962519 724869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? " < 1456962520 776456 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456962525 478425 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers are scalars, AKA 1×1 matrices, so you're in the Mat category. < 1456962527 621539 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Thought that might be the case < 1456962531 166988 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`touch test2 < 1456962533 254113 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1456962534 564402 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Good point < 1456962535 874426 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat test2 < 1456962536 591125 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1456962537 679722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you need to talk about which one you're talking about. < 1456962540 796381 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? " < 1456962542 245801 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​" is a double quote, added to wisdom as a test. < 1456962546 748998 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hth < 1456962555 518421 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/" < 1456962555 677708 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :no op in here? < 1456962556 684074 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What are some examples of common morphisms in categories with numbers as the elements? < 1456962557 245959 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah < 1456962558 99725 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1456962565 245738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: That's up to you. < 1456962571 413175 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nzt-fish: it's up to you to guess who's a chanop. < 1456962576 221025 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And while we're at it, what about where the arrows are numbers < 1456962578 172848 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's particularly insidious in that it seems to work until the next repository change (iiuc) < 1456962578 903883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I'll give you three examples and then you go figure them out and tell me things about them. < 1456962593 518384 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of these categories have natural numbers as objects. < 1456962594 638908 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm test2 < 1456962595 987780 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nzt-fish: We have ops, but they have to make ChanServ op themselves to be ops < 1456962596 534558 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1456962600 43059 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nzt-fish: THen they deop < 1456962603 951745 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a chanop and so is my wife < 1456962609 314511 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, was that spartacus < 1456962613 262568 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: There's an arrow between X and Y iff X <= Y < 1456962615 525569 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, how about this < 1456962628 878554 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pulls out his huge donger and dicks every single one of you, you and you and you.
< 1456962631 205741 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :B: An arrow between N and M is an NxM matrix. Composition is matrix multiplcation. < 1456962645 775147 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nzt-fish: surely you can be more creative than that < 1456962650 27645 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can I be op momentarily and mapole the fish into oblivion? pretty please? < 1456962657 913390 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: See, that's why no one trusts `learn. <-- well i added documentation. < 1456962658 94086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C: An arrow : N -> M is an M-tuple of numbers smaller than N. Composition is pointwise indexing. < 1456962661 688664 :nzt-fish!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but it's enough to get banned. now where are the ops < 1456962666 691134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn < 1456962667 525081 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/learn: line 3: wisdom/: Is a directory \ Learned '': < 1456962676 8871 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: heh, nice one :D < 1456962691 645776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ? < 1456962710 141849 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just `learn the empty file with an empty name? < 1456962713 832287 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Now go figure out what those categories are and tell oerjan when you're done. < 1456962716 946546 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I grossly mistaken... < 1456962719 716209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to see oerjan's documentation. < 1456962732 352804 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yep, working on that < 1456962733 932477 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn /foo < 1456962734 834990 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1456962752 118303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` le/rn '/foo'; echo $? < 1456962752 888914 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1456962758 622959 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it checks that. < 1456962789 50357 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rolls a d20 for a charm/diplomacy check against oerjan
< 1456962810 345583 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got 18. < 1456962834 89016 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice d20 < 1456962834 223021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: 1 < 1456962837 479046 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1456962843 255692 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What kind of matrix is the NxM matrix? < 1456962863 560070 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: As in, is it N^nxm? < 1456962866 973030 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or R^nxm < 1456962871 668985 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I^nxm < 1456962876 960455 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would a critical charm/diplomacy failure look like... < 1456962883 862353 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e fumbles, grips hppavilion[1] by the arm and they both tumble down a sudden cliff that materialized out of nowhere < 1456962900 319738 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, straight to hell? convenient... < 1456962917 916365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Let's say reals. < 1456962924 970662 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK < 1456962937 803687 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: personally I was thinking of bursting mirrors < 1456962942 115508 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :boily > 1456962942 123459 NAMES :#esoteric < 1456962952 71503 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoerjan ^^ < 1456962957 328620 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to respect the dice < 1456962980 955209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :d20 < 1456962981 88366 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 18 < 1456962985 940912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1456962997 216885 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, that contextual match is still there? < 1456963002 577959 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 MODE #esoteric +b :*!~nzt@unaffiliated/nzt > 1456963002 598991 NAMES :#esoteric < 1456963004 716395 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 KICK #esoteric nzt-fish :*THWACK* too doo doo doo doo doooo ♪ IT'S A HOMERUN! < 1456963010 811994 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 MODE #esoteric -o :boily > 1456963010 823241 NAMES :#esoteric < 1456963071 124822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: The real point of this exercise is to realize that the objects of a category are pretty irrelevant. < 1456963088 565016 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, but now I'm invested < 1456963112 525835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That third category is a very obscure one you've probably never heard of. < 1456963118 551107 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have completely pointless categories and the theory will still work just as well as before < 1456963132 477101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the property that products are products and sums are sums. < 1456963148 508846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably figure out some more properties. < 1456963151 753357 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? learn < 1456963153 22286 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] [s][punctuation] [...] < 1456963208 344569 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can't find what pointwise indexing means < 1456963227 401466 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused by the [punctuation] < 1456963266 789332 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [] is somewhat overloaded. < 1456963268 842845 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nit < 1456963270 181158 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456963292 164095 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Nits are there to be picked. < 1456963295 175654 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'nit': Nits are there to be picked. < 1456963355 909641 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1456963417 515730 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nits are louse eggs hth < 1456963419 708105 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um it means it's optional? < 1456963453 915857 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: [...] < 1456963466 600872 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1456963474 691745 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically that's also optional hth < 1456963485 794095 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-kay < 1456963506 432090 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? optional < 1456963507 476444 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :optional? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1456963509 636498 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn optional. < 1456963513 275865 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'optional.': optional. < 1456963519 493120 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1456963531 446298 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cd wisdom; grep '\.\.\.' * < 1456963532 461785 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a small bug < 1456963542 295935 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arothmorphise:arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry. \ code:[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466 < 1456963544 112423 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/learn < 1456963545 282834 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1" < 1456963583 948871 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the space is not optional if it's to remove any of the rest < 1456963584 100646 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cd wisdom; grep -l '\.\.\.' * < 1456963585 805230 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arothmorphise \ code \ hthmonoid \ grep: le: Is a directory \ learn \ `learn \ northumberland \ grep: ¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: ¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ \oren\ \ procrastination \ qdb \ quoteformat \ remorse < 1456963594 36140 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/optional. < 1456963596 430084 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1456963603 319721 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? northumberland < 1456963604 566761 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Northumberland may be today a sparsely populated country... but SOON! THE NORTHUMBRAINS SHALL RISE! < 1456963642 373335 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/northumberland < 1456963646 113319 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull Taneb < 1456963653 139883 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bike < 1456963654 552895 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike is from Luxembourg. < 1456963709 264731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: It means each element in the tuple gets indexed on its own. < 1456963729 392904 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK, and what does that mean precisely? < 1456963747 660308 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuple does not speak of "indexing" < 1456963751 314968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Try figuring out what indexing would mean and I'll tell you whether it's right. < 1456963756 428828 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@troll 5d6 < 1456963756 562311 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: 21 < 1456963764 341134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is indexing in the usual sense. < 1456963779 281598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x,y,z)[0] = x and so on < 1456963790 652325 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you add the values? < 1456963797 664899 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1456963819 479471 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So... hm... OH! Is it at all like ~ in INTERCAL? < 1456963827 726116 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SELECT operator? < 1456963828 147710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know INTERCAL. < 1456963837 895273 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : *reads about the ending phase* ... could there be an infinite loop of cleanup steps... <-- you should reask that with ais523 around hth < 1456963854 769799 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1456963855 990235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's that. < 1456963862 448192 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: x~y is all the bits of x for which the corresponding bit in y is 1, right-justified < 1456963872 696601 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or maybe I got which side is which messed up) < 1456963873 856418 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's ALL CAPS, what else could it be... I mean now that COBOL is dead? < 1456963877 774419 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs.
< 1456963881 931356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there can be an infinite loop of cleanup steps, yes < 1456963888 358977 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh :/ < 1456963895 317800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little hard to pull off because cards are typically designed to stop things triggering then < 1456963912 417403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :help when did this turn into a mtg conversation < 1456963926 561300 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oerjan looking through logs < 1456963930 477077 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What I mean is the compostion of e.g. (17, 92, 12) and (1, 2) equal to (17, 92)? < 1456963944 749951 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heys523 < 1456963968 124682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: What are the domains and codomains of those arrows? < 1456963981 502107 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They're numbers < 1456963986 373328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which numbers? < 1456963987 838624 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Natural numbers < 1456963994 239746 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1456963999 848591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to choose. < 1456964008 884850 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They're natural numbers < 1456964025 89034 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: what shachaf means is that an arrow is not determined by its tuple alone < 1456964028 69298 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Or do you mean which numbers in particular for those arrows? < 1456964040 691165 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah < 1456964068 543038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An arrow : N -> M is an N-tuple of numbers < M < 1456964070 811312 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, graphs are categories < 1456964072 487289 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456964087 14185 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no!) < 1456964087 147785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So (17, 92, 12) : 3 -> M < 1456964091 554144 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ah, I think I transcribed it to my notes wrong < 1456964093 541446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But M could be 100 or 1000 < 1456964096 405251 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflexive, transitive relations are < 1456964105 716072 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome sphinxo < 1456964107 408304 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06sphinxo: 13Welcome 04to 07the 08international 09hub 02for 06esoteric 13programming 04language 07design 08and 09deployment! 02For 06more 13information, 04check 07out 08our 09wiki: 02. 06(For 13the 04other 07kind 08of 09esoterica, 02try 06#esoteric 13on 04EFnet 07or 08DALnet.) < 1456964112 461493 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the example that I wanted) < 1456964136 591374 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, so the arrows map numbers to all numbers greater than them, right < 1456964140 659500 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: thanks < 1456964154 836654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1456964158 762591 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the bees knees in esoteric langs? < 1456964183 233569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: in terms of newly popular? best-known? < 1456964200 801735 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: newly popular < 1456964200 935173 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: well your puns seem to be up to par... welcome! < 1456964226 685154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not sure if any esolangs have really caught on since Three Star Programmer < 1456964231 78391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: whoa whoa whoa, when did this turn into a linear logic conversation < 1456964247 97244 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you lost me < 1456964261 87614 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wait, what pun < 1456964266 952508 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1456964267 126956 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the bees one < 1456964297 437908 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: One that isn't popular- but be used by at least one person in the world someday, if I'm being generous- is a proof assistant I myself made called Thoof < 1456964304 695582 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't notice it was a pun < 1456964317 4630 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: Based on Thue, which is a great language you should check out if you haven't already < 1456964328 663252 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: flew right over your head, eh... < 1456964345 735965 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, my brain is turning on now < 1456964357 608139 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: is it on github? < 1456964368 631229 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: Yes, I'll link you < 1456964395 313927 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: But there are no published docs yet; however, I can publish the as-of-yet incomplete tutorial if you like < 1456964396 259155 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1456964404 878829 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Oh wait I think i've found it, in python right? < 1456964420 881522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought you were talking about hppavilion[1]'s brain. < 1456964422 255801 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: Yep < 1456964427 574454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joke seemed a little drawn out. < 1456964435 423557 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well, bee's knees did fit there without having to reinterpret it. < 1456964480 689429 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Gah! Your and sphinxo's nicks arethe same length and both start with s! < 1456964486 293149 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'll always be confused! < 1456964496 93873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're already always confused hth < 1456964501 767438 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh right < 1456964531 685778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: have you figured out the mysterious category twh < 1456964554 965098 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: a single starting letter seems a bit little to be confusing. < 1456964561 194524 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mysterious category? < 1456964570 49624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently this category has a name. < 1456964570 495765 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but it is < 1456964588 226505 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't it just a subcategory of Set < 1456964593 758576 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the spirit of self promotion, i'd like to present one of my first forays into the world of #esoteric < 1456964604 871185 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya standard bf compiler < 1456964607 718342 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in ocaml < 1456964613 334552 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :generating java bytecode < 1456964650 863297 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes hth < 1456964746 786069 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 1.4" < 1456964773 64508 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456964852 658294 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :git.io/v2yj9 < 1456964882 490469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: weird mix of languages :-) < 1456964886 774090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in here, that's probably a good thing) < 1456964903 545407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense though, ocaml's good at compilers, jvm is probably the most portable asm < 1456964909 855544 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you understand par in linear logic? TWH < 1456964920 455199 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456964930 946926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what do you mean by par? I fear the answer is no < 1456964936 514209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the subsets of linear logic I use in my work < 1456964937 282046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The upside-down ampersand. < 1456964943 381411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, in that case no < 1456964945 119102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also smetimes written # < 1456964954 559105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How about _|_? < 1456964955 530018 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was my first time doing ocaml actually < 1456964962 303059 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ?A the exponential thing? < 1456964966 366057 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't really like it and went back to haskell < 1456964985 490070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: _|_ is just "arbitrary false statement" in most logics < 1456964996 129770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: Oh, that's where I remember you from. < 1456965002 421924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort-of have a vague idea of how ? works but not enough to put it into words < 1456965022 240480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, there's _|_ and there's 0 < 1456965034 102430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is the identity of # < 1456965046 992151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1456965052 751204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear logic sort-of has SCI syndrome < 1456965055 982499 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah i'm the one generally asking the silly questions < 1456965056 668551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but possibly even worse < 1456965070 335710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spinal Cord Injury? < 1456965092 300089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SCI is an affine logic, which has the problem that ('a * 'b) -> 'c and 'a -> ('b -> 'c) aren't isomorphic and most language constructs need to work both ways round) < 1456965096 295820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntactic control of interference < 1456965105 365085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game semantics interpretation made the most sense to me. < 1456965117 707891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, it has both an internal hom and a product but they're not adjoint? < 1456965119 965159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's interesting. < 1456965133 77812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The product has no right adjoint and the internal hom has no left adjoint? < 1456965139 280735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1456965153 105397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it causes utter chaos at the category theory level < 1456965161 909026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of programming it, it's only mildly annoying < 1456965167 963238 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all played tis-100? I imagine that'd be right up you guys/girls boats < 1456965185 66170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sounds sort of reasonable. Maybe. < 1456965186 264419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying enough, though, that SCI errors are something that I have to keep correcting in other people's code < 1456965214 647985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway in this game semantics interpretation, when you have A#B, you run two games in parallel, one for A and one for B. < 1456965220 649623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a bit of work on my thesis was trying to create a more categorically sensible SCI < 1456965220 868315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you only have to win one of them. < 1456965239 549205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for instance A # ~A is always true, because if you get a refutation on one side you can use it on the other side. < 1456965247 42667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that it has hidden intersection types < 1456965258 955551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm, I should read your thesis. < 1456965263 875966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, that makes me think of a programming language construct < 1456965275 808900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which you give two terms, it returns one of its argument < 1456965291 516771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's guaranteed to return something other than bottom unless both arguments are bottom < 1456965310 136113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if the Haskell people would consider that pure
< 1456965395 409971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Haskell people probably want a guarantee that they're equal unless they're bottom. < 1456965402 545904 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.haskell.org/Unamb < 1456965410 39556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good name for it :-) < 1456965434 124868 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphinxo: I played it. It's neat. < 1456965436 430498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if it's useful < 1456965439 742013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could do sorting with it < 1456965455 553838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it's useful. < 1456965459 230168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one argument an O(n log n) worst case, the other an O(n) best case that sometimes blows up < 1456965467 479234 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conal.net/blog/tag/unamb < 1456965579 47083 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456965803 717022 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, A # B is also ~(~A x ~B) < 1456965951 71283 :heroux!~heroux@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-yladneeucqbbtpzm QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1456966527 364290 :sphinxo!~sphinxo@212-139-67-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.4 < 1456966905 190466 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-aqwhcyzbefsarqfv JOIN :#esoteric < 1456966974 442722 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1456966983 656077 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1456967257 197952 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwah ah ah. Tiamat is dead! < 1456967305 214206 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dragonskin cloak is miiiiine! < 1456967345 995837 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456967500 673354 :carado!~carado@savhon.org QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456967728 783453 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456967742 453979 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456967776 106583 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :will someone explain this to me: why some programmers use C but have an aversion to C++ < 1456967822 334549 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially on non-embedded platforms) < 1456967972 449357 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the things that C++ is good at, C is about as good at, and the things that C++ does better than C, other languages do significantly better. So, C++ is a giant pile of complexity with minimal benefits. < 1456968072 158443 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no, there is one class of stuff where C doesn't have the tools (like, you can do it but it's cumbersome), and java/C#/etc can't do it because of the mandatory garbage collector < 1456968100 765069 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have lots of dynamic sized stuff C++ has a large advantage over C < 1456968144 651228 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know that there's languages out there besides C-family languages, Java-family languages, and P-family languages, right? < 1456968166 566936 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1456968181 776253 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why C++ is popular for making games (too much dynamic sized stuff for C, can't use java/C# because garbage collector creates lags) < 1456968186 398090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :P-family lanugages? < 1456968198 931182 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Gregor's joking name for Perl, Python, Ruby, etc. < 1456968206 325302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1456968223 963584 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what other language category is there? functional languages? < 1456968277 280383 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other languages I can think of generally aren't particularly fast < 1456968326 498091 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Programming_paradigms *cough* < 1456968355 186559 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more programming language *categories* than you think there are languages, it sounds like. :) < 1456968376 758635 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's gregor? < 1456968402 518660 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Gregor Richards, one of the channel members who's not been that active of late. < 1456968414 890316 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's still here though < 1456968418 614134 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Isn't that right? < 1456968425 14078 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : that list is a split by paradigm, not by speed grade < 1456968454 676728 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: C++ ain't exactly "fast" in idiomatic use... < 1456968477 806927 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure, you can write fast C++, but once you're using the STL you've abandoned all hope. < 1456968486 922460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Gregor's most famous for writing EgoBot and HackEgo < 1456968492 738462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Gregor < 1456968497 770179 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : not if you're using STL right < 1456968500 955879 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he was most famous for the hats. < 1456968504 850064 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. < 1456968508 182725 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he wrote lagbot < 1456968510 397804 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :neato < 1456968519 535487 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't always laggy < 1456968523 318878 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie basically as a replacement for arrays [] except it manages the size < 1456968526 670877 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then he got cheap < 1456968538 128513 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I wouldn't take game developers as a good example of "how to write programs"... < 1456968549 426288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you want a cheap bot, see glogbackup (which is also Gregor's) < 1456968599 122033 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unmaintainable piles of shit that are written by the sort of people who are willing to accept 80 hour workweeks are par for the course. < 1456968637 239643 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rant i've never heard < 1456968662 196015 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem with working too many hours a week? < 1456968664 466005 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456968702 924361 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, humans are kinda bad at being productive that long. Especially at mentally intense tasks. < 1456968737 589381 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if garbage collectors are ruled out you're left with, er, basically: C, C++, assembler, delphi, rust, and objective C (and I guess cobol and ada) < 1456968744 636657 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can think of < 1456968758 322651 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Have you never even heard of Forth? < 1456968764 955737 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok and forth < 1456968773 514038 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fortran, i think < 1456968776 234697 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Tcl, for that matter? < 1456968779 260520 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok and fortran < 1456968786 338233 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adds bash to the list of non-garbage-collected languages
< 1456968788 400209 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, and Python. < 1456968809 63365 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is python not garbage collected < 1456968815 321355 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is reference counted. < 1456968830 635967 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's dynamic typed which is a much larger speed disadvantage < 1456968833 171612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference counters fall into a similar category to garbage collectors to me < 1456968840 685978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have noticeable overhead, often more < 1456968852 543564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference being that it's predictable overhead that always happens in the same places < 1456968852 793460 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They're automatic memory management, but GC is a different technique. < 1456968858 70268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1456968867 699573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not the same, but they have similar effects on a program < 1456968868 159096 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, "similar". < 1456968868 815926 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :""The standard C implementation of Python uses reference counting to detect inaccessible objects, and a separate mechanism to collect reference cycles, periodically executing a cycle detection algorithm which looks for inaccessible cycles and deletes the objects involved."" < 1456968873 499649 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, not the same but similar. < 1456968937 731758 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference counting doesn't cause 100ms pauses in your app like the java GC does < 1456968999 215814 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Java not have a way of using a more interactive-use-appropriate GC? < 1456969016 402484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make hints to Java about when a good time to GC would be < 1456969030 921503 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : in a video game, there's never a good time < 1456969034 272437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a) it doesn't have to respect them, b) you can't delay GC, only make it happen earlier (and hopefully not again for a while) < 1456969038 5985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: loading screens < 1456969043 398228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great time to GC < 1456969051 486507 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hi yet? < 1456969058 4471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have the memory (and sometimes you do, but not always), you can just leak until the next loading screen and catch all the memory up there < 1456969058 888721 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your game has loading screens, yes < 1456969080 912992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few games don't < 1456969088 989738 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Good luck < 1456969094 322927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in many, they're disguised, or short enough that you don't really register them < 1456969096 594353 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey there. < 1456969098 884106 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Making a loading screen-free game, that is < 1456969102 621707 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happens you caught me at a bad time. < 1456969102 755045 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yay! < 1456969105 706002 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1456969106 37075 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go to bed now. < 1456969109 522252 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/yay// < 1456969111 249566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in the disguised/short ones, a 100ms pause isn't noticeable < 1456969112 554209 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1456969112 742991 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night, everyone. < 1456969114 188084 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you have a *good enough* GC, you should be able to only pause for short periods of time between frames. < 1456969185 51335 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would still be better to have only ref counting and no GC in that kind of programs though < 1456969219 950133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: so if the root of a structure gets freed < 1456969228 826113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you then have a pause while the rest of the structure gets freed recursively < 1456969232 482206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounting doesn't remove pauses < 1456969239 18104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply makes it easier to predict when they'll happen < 1456969256 319888 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (1) other threads keep going < 1456969274 437745 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to GC which has a "stop the world" phase where it pauses every thread < 1456969295 673492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily, concurrent GCs exist < 1456969299 344575 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so chances are the pause will happen on your data loading thread (not your gfx thread) < 1456969299 478216 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's only true of a subset of GCs. < 1456969324 176186 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even concurrent GCs do have a "stop the world" phase, it's just much shorter < 1456969333 487349 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if what I've read is correct) < 1456969343 635674 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the same notion, so does malloc because malloc has a mutex. < 1456969379 515543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've managed to deadlock on that mutex before now :-( < 1456969405 542302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just say, SDL's situation with timing and concurrency is so bad I've decided to take a look at SFML to see if it's any better < 1456969426 438132 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL is... not a well-designed library. < 1456969488 463148 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah SDL is way less good than it should've been < 1456969586 250089 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pygame makes SDL sane. < 1456969638 818125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: does it prevent it polling every 1ms? < 1456969708 71549 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, I don't think so. < 1456969732 941520 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other thing is that refcounting doesn't have heap compaction < 1456969736 569524 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a good thing < 1456969762 397111 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda a wash. < 1456969776 337040 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and orthogonal to refcounting, really) < 1456969812 391506 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heap compaction costs when it happens, but means the allocator can spend less time in allocation. < 1456969847 793272 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap compaction on 300megs of data isn't pretty < 1456969864 225942 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten how to count that low. < 1456969940 296805 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's all fine if it's server software and it doesn't matter if the whole app stops for half a second < 1456969953 513505 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No, it isn't. < 1456969957 336481 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, yes, by all means use java and C# and python and whatnot < 1456970023 790296 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a service pauses for half a second I get paged. < 1456970294 779120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If an individual server has a GC pause of 500ms? < 1456970320 509880 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I exaggerate. < 1456970335 764224 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But we *do* have SLAs for response time to requests... < 1456970401 516150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't talk about details in here anyway. < 1456970427 662132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think I know how to set off pikhq's pager. < 1456970464 964713 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joke's on you, I'm not on call right now < 1456970496 863987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is your pager thing actually turned off? < 1456970508 474204 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no... < 1456970760 56365 :andrew_!~andrew@113.97.177.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456970795 379416 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456971288 367768 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1456971289 951592 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456971294 197374 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's elif < 1456971312 469623 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't it just also allow else if and elsif? < 1456971327 823332 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in python? < 1456971336 897905 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1456971345 935244 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably elif is much used so it is easier to write in that way? < 1456971347 663819 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really sure. < 1456971384 902478 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :true but it should allow elif, else if and elsif as alternatives < 1456971398 295582 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one way to do that" :p < 1456971409 224029 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1456971413 819303 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want perlthon < 1456971430 929602 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googled it and it's an actual thing
< 1456971443 330675 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he\\oren\! < 1456971529 399463 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1456971534 354219 :mysanthrop!~myname@84.200.43.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456971567 593945 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hates you < 1456971593 30855 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1456971605 167093 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1456971627 515665 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1456971637 221539 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right, and whom? < 1456971640 683878 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1456971653 740360 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's rude < 1456971661 222303 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1456971708 621705 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: why do you think I hate him? < 1456971712 924903 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome mysanthrop < 1456971732 148963 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​09mysanthrop: 02Welcome 06to 13the 04international 07hub 08for 09esoteric 02programming 06language 13design 04and 07deployment! 08For 09more 02information, 06check 13out 04our 07wiki: 08. 09(For 02the 06other 13kind 04of 07esoterica, 08try 09#esoteric 02on 06EFnet 13or 04DALnet.) < 1456971744 59297 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :09N13e00e11d09s 08m09o04r08e 11r00a11i12n09b11o09w12s < 1456971787 97225 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can get mutt working on a jailbroken iPhone < 1456971821 65200 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1456971828 117161 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456971828 250447 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456971828 674772 :Alcest!~alcest@69.64.40.177 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456971829 141464 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456971829 274883 :nisstyre_!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1456971837 313402 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consistent mail experience? < 1456971839 258328 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your mutt has a much better interface than mine < 1456971867 359637 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use a ssh app and use alpine < 1456971872 5260 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do C programmers live without std::vector and std::string < 1456971872 968543 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bought an iphone, you clearly care about eye candy < 1456971893 370040 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I technically lease an iPhone < 1456972000 885626 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: i have a bunch of poorly written functions I copy from one project to the next over and over < 1456972026 911218 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Easily. < 1456972046 444606 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Or poorly, if you go by the average results. :P < 1456972052 308006 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallocate arrays every time they change size? < 1456972070 204977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you do that if the std::vector implementation doesn't? < 1456972090 260728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like it's rocket science to have a struct that has "size" and "capacity" separately. < 1456972105 452833 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie : true but then you might as well use std::vector < 1456972120 846032 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does that and it can't leak < 1456972165 289923 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my functions resize them when they get to each power of two < 1456972197 85736 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : that's exactly what std::vector does < 1456972209 464536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think array resizing is a major source of memory leaks. < 1456972225 810915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read this thing that was arguing that powers of two is one of the worst choices you could make. < 1456972226 496913 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"new" is your friend if you want to leak memory in C++. ("can't" really is too strong) < 1456972243 362201 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, powers of three, though. That's the future < 1456972247 840046 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the point is that std::vector replaces stuff * < 1456972255 353026 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff * can leak, of course < 1456972266 337039 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::vector can't < 1456972267 706778 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ does have a couple of resource management idioms that C doesn't support, but it's far from golden anyway < 1456972289 222817 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like std::vector. I *HATE* std::iostream < 1456972301 833158 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf just happends < 1456972311 770114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it was https://github.com/facebook/folly/blob/master/folly/docs/FBVector.md < 1456972313 230369 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iostream is a big raised middle finger to STL < 1456972342 294503 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot really understand how can it be possible to have STL and iostream in the *same* standard < 1456972342 966145 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e : C doesn't have std::vector, that's the real one that's missing and it's a major, major gaping hole < 1456972373 69216 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Anyways, frankly if you think that std::vector is your solution to memory management problems you are too unaware of the problems there are to solve to be having this discussion. < 1456972376 295812 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir : 80% of the time I simply ignore iostream but use STL anyways < 1456972379 304295 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"always non-negative, almost always measurable, frequently significant, sometimes dramatic, and occasionally spectacular" < 1456972397 770551 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : if you need a special case then STL won't cut it true < 1456972434 585895 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in my experience, "variable sized array" is 10x more common than any other memory structure and its omission from C hurts hard < 1456972439 494380 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: yeah. STL is (within its design constraint) well-designed library, while iostream is an epic fail < 1456972469 962543 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also by far the easiest data structure to implement, so... < 1456972472 854190 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, locale is a shit < 1456972476 752996 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, realloc() is basically the equivalent for C < 1456972489 208863 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no operator renew < 1456972510 603672 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : yeah but you reimplement it so often that it should be a language feature really < 1456972512 958449 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who tried to write a new locale with iostream (to be exact, std::codecvt etc.) will understand that < 1456972527 638215 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it'd be a nice addition to libc. < 1456972551 821714 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are, like, 4 features I care about in C++ < 1456972589 94178 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::vector, std::string, std::map, and putting functions in structs/classes for convenience (ie less typing) < 1456972607 251113 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the same for everyone. Unfortunately, it's a different 4 for each person, and C++ has enough features that each individual human being gets their own set of 4 features. < 1456972613 221743 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::vector is not just a "nice addition", it's a major feature < 1456972680 502377 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have a function for appending to an array < 1456972683 597917 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mad < 1456972686 259603 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suspect that C++ releases new versions to keep up with global population growth) < 1456972688 916175 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate. < 1456972707 807056 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : that is true < 1456972748 865202 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparr(char**array,int*size,char*part,int*partz); < 1456972769 734345 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-Arrays.html < 1456972771 458361 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc() isn't bad < 1456972776 904479 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the mad that was censored isn't the mad that is in the chännel hth. < 1456972803 95804 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, glib. glib makes C++ look *angelic* in commparison. < 1456972819 332398 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my function does realloc iff size would increase through a power of two < 1456972864 442219 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : yeah. I use std::vector for exactly that except with less potential mistakes < 1456972866 783696 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember why partz is passed by pointer < 1456972903 783974 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he\\oren\. more pointers, more stars, more sparkliness. < 1456972912 310092 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers are evil < 1456972926 362160 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are evil < 1456972934 773819 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sure but if the objection is that one has to reimplement resizable arrays all the time, that's one of the counterarguments that come to my mind < 1456972946 121877 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except pointers that are essentially referrences, those are okay < 1456972947 648895 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Fair enough. :) < 1456972966 257561 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: isn't that all pointers? < 1456972973 101929 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I see that you are still fonting ^^ < 1456972986 995465 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nice fraktur btw.) < 1456972989 560863 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers and references are different words for the same thing < 1456973007 666663 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : well, basically if its pointing to data owned by some other structure, it's okay < 1456973045 770370 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : if it's pointing to a memory allocation and you get a leak if the pointer gets overwritten, then it's bad < 1456973076 726051 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that different from references? < 1456973138 65650 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, c++ references are typically used in function declarations and they refer to some object < 1456973165 103384 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use c++ references to do allocation/deallocation so by definition they generally can't be evil < 1456973183 856282 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can't", again. < 1456973188 150982 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1456973189 990175 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C++ we're talking about. everything can be alignment-shifted. < 1456973200 79451 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily : and then it'll be slow < 1456973211 655879 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a rare case < 1456973211 957127 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then what good are they? you need some way to refer to non-stack memory... < 1456973229 825733 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If every programmer were as disciplined as that, we'd already be out of work < 1456973233 54294 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet delete &ref; is valid < 1456973236 162087 :nisstyre_!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456973275 317712 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : easy, when you have a function that returns 2 things, one can be returned as a return value but the other has to be a pointer or reference argument and then the called function will write in it < 1456973285 814369 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what references are for < 1456973297 73992 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're essentially interchangeable with pointers < 1456973325 277042 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said, they're just a pointer. < 1456973334 409975 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :internally, c++ references are pointers yes < 1456973342 311791 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to have unevil, functional sleep. 'night all! < 1456973343 20284 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically they're just syntactic sugar < 1456973349 422487 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: SELFREFERENTIAL CHICKEN < 1456973367 378313 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e : C++ doesn't guard against messing things up badly :D < 1456973380 578103 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, a int& is the same as a int*const, but with syntax sugar < 1456973410 82744 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing you to code as if it's a int < 1456973449 474964 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: and it's much harder to pass in NULL. < 1456973452 389596 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if there's a way to code something with malloc/free/new/delete, and a way that doesn't involve these, I always go for way #2 < 1456973519 535594 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not writing a custom malloc implementation every time, are you really doing your job? < 1456973542 269224 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard malloc goes through the bucket allocator < 1456973551 273553 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I have a word for those people, but it's inappropriate for polite conversation. < 1456973556 115696 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for typical uses it does a pretty good job < 1456973564 486980 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: If you're writing a custom malloc implementation every time, are you really doing your job? < 1456973572 971950 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at my work we use our own resizable array class < 1456973587 747137 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of std::vector < 1456973593 622073 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come? < 1456973609 420346 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apparently std::vector doesn't play well with threads or somehting < 1456973611 640911 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same is true of my work, but at this point I'm a little surprised we don't just have our own implementation of the STL... < 1456973652 162305 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : depends on when it changes size :D < 1456973655 54054 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NIH is strong < 1456973661 746110 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? NIH < 1456973663 107372 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIH was /not/ invented by Taneb. < 1456973683 786488 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/NIH < 1456973690 12239 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a size change at the same time another thread looks or writes in the std::vector then you have a problem yes < 1456973691 624530 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1456973693 285807 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That's practically the Google way. < 1456973700 797395 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/nih < 1456973704 855670 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e < 1456973707 601010 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a little sad that the CPPGM is already running. It seems like it'd be a fun thing to fail at < 1456973711 863109 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I forgot. < 1456973725 361751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1456973728 194414 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well half our codebase is in an in-house language instead of c++, and the compile porcess uses another in-house language instead of makefiles, so you know.... < 1456973730 782964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Google way isn't exactly NIH. They have their own variant of it. < 1456973740 107482 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :D < 1456973826 752596 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : basically whenever some std::vector can change size, it needs to be 100% mutexed accessible by only 1 thread, or else you're in trouble < 1456973838 17137 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the time it's the same as a C array < 1456973919 61476 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposedly copy-on-write containers work well with threading < 1456973946 66371 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's what we have NIHed < 1456974006 102955 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other case I've heard is code that had to work on stuff like the nintendo DS < 1456974009 698234 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked into the details since the interface is almost exaclt the same as std::vector < 1456974023 670779 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which if I'm not mistaken had a broken STL or something like that < 1456974048 292195 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has to work on coffeemachines and things < 1456974055 708390 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother's company has a NIH std::vector equivalent because of that < 1456974159 206541 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for strings, ironically std::string basically complements char *> < 1456974189 93498 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :char * strings are cool except that you basically can't store them, std::string fixes just exactly that < 1456974319 622534 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't store them where? < 1456974337 386305 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, char * has no storage < 1456974359 289143 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck does that mean? < 1456974377 574336 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have to save some text data inside a struct < 1456974393 313572 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :your options are like < 1456974448 771707 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :char text[99]; // + 1 million runtime checks and prayer and hope that it never goes over < 1456974521 663046 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *text; // and then make sure it's set to null in every single constructor and make sure it's deleted in the destructor and then checks that it's not null every time you read it and malloc/realloc if it ever changes size < 1456974552 366523 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::string text; < 1456974632 801448 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that option #3 has way less common failure modes than option #1 and option #2 < 1456974648 680731 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::string could be replaced with a bunch of funtions that take char* and handle everything you just said. < 1456974662 415503 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : yes that's option #2 < 1456974668 115945 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :char * in the class < 1456974683 63172 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is I already have such functions < 1456974711 815117 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote pikhq: The Google way isn't exactly NIH. They have their own variant of it. < 1456974718 374567 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1270) pikhq: The Google way isn't exactly NIH. They have their own variant of it. < 1456974751 912147 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : and you never forget to put them in constructors, destructors, and to put checks against null? < 1456974792 375003 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have constructors or destructors, and all my string handling functions check for null < 1456974821 226407 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(becuase I'm writing in C, which doesn't have constructors or destructors) < 1456974839 684021 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : well, when mallocating and freeing structs of that type then < 1456974851 687665 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the type that contains the char * < 1456974877 173448 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, since my usual first step is somthing like: < 1456974910 111705 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo *f = newfoo(); < 1456974919 61619 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then , inside newfoo: < 1456974968 980952 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo *f = malloc(sizeof(struct foo)); *f = nullfoo; return f < 1456974990 282697 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Late(r) < 1456975003 282761 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't happen, becuase I have a prototype for all foo objects (nullfoo) < 1456975028 300199 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have a deletefoo() matching with every newfoo() ? < 1456975033 684933 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1456975080 341128 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess that works < 1456975158 685974 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even have some functions that can delete an array, taking a pointer to a delete function to be called on each element < 1456975166 270645 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like that < 1456975187 594642 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1456975213 621658 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an obvious extension of the precedent set by qsort and bsearch < 1456975235 834053 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just didn't bother with it in the C stdlib < 1456975257 18904 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kindof the reverse of my coding style (which could be summarized as "avoid malloc/free unless there's really no other option") but I guess it's sorta functional < 1456975289 916805 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what you do if you're writing C and not C++ < 1456975307 560298 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense if you're doing embedded coding yes < 1456975541 242244 :nortti_!nortti@ayu.smar.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975542 895390 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975580 262551 :puck1pedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975587 234234 :lambda-calc!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975587 801712 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975588 877565 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw1-54fa3f-129.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975589 357953 :puckipedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975589 491164 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975590 185480 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975590 318879 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975590 452360 :catern!~catern@catern.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975590 585983 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975590 586066 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1456975612 243861 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975655 359784 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975660 656183 :puck1pedia!~puck@irc.puckipedia.com NICK :puckipedia < 1456975686 420348 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw1-54fa3f-129.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975866 137297 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975888 997976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456975889 131556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456975890 378845 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456976264 663870 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1456976609 958069 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456976616 362688 :catern!~catern@catern.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1456977737 923694 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456978353 386115 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456978507 626245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456978549 475374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so SFML uses a very thread-centric model < 1456978563 124043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. there's no way to inject user-defined events, no way to do timers, etc. < 1456978611 907222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it /also/ doesn't define any safe way to communicate between threads, other than mutexes, and I don't think you can form the equivalent of a select() out of mutexes < 1456978628 647921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in #esoteric, and thus takes questions like "can you create a message queue out of nothing but mutexes" seriously
< 1456978706 866413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the question is, what are the sensible cross-platform ways to merge events coming in from multiple threads, when your threading primitives suck? < 1456978824 655262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: something you /could/ do entirely within SFML is to create a TCP listening socket and use that, but a) this uses up a global system resource (open ports), b) there's no way to restrict connections to localhost so it's more than a little insecure < 1456978835 553188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no way within SFML's API, that is; you can obviously do it in TCP) < 1456978894 266616 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define "out of nothing but mutexes" < 1456978924 662715 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we talking about communication via try_lock()? < 1456978929 76139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thread-safe blocking primitive that you have available is the mutex lock, which will block if another thread has the mutex locked < 1456978952 952230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem isn't transferring the data, because you can do that via shared memory < 1456978957 83605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is the default for threading) < 1456978972 258383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is blocking until there's a message ready to receive < 1456978975 848308 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1456978991 80767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AFAICT, the problem is that you can only try to lock one mutex at a time, a specific thread holds it < 1456979008 245350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you're blocked until that specific thread gives you permission < 1456979012 230887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also you can't do anything meanwhile) < 1456979104 914901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically the opposite situation to the situation for which mutexes were designed; we don't have one process holding the lock and many waiting on it, we have many processes holding the lock and one waiting on one of them to release it < 1456979109 551593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/process/thread/ < 1456979167 122526 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't SFML a multimedia library? < 1456979192 78862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: yes < 1456979206 104052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however this means it contains an event loop < 1456979229 245205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its event loop uses a "use different threads for different sorts of events" model (implicitly in that it doesn't support timers, has sockets as a separate thing from windows, etc.) < 1456979238 627415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also supplies threads, and mutexes < 1456979252 346056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this isn't enough to be able to communicate between threads without polling AFAICT < 1456979296 303839 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I don't think it's possible either < 1456979311 571897 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with how it's done in the networking world < 1456979316 500126 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: polling < 1456979323 505736 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the hood, anyway < 1456979350 404559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what I want is either a solution a) inside SFML using other primitives it has (IMO impossible), or b) using cross-platform primitives that are widely implemented < 1456979376 374940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use pthreads, I guess; however I don't know how that works on Windows/Strawberry < 1456979399 6849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or how well it plays with SFML (which after all, has its own threading abstraction) < 1456979407 849453 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what's the thing you can't do with mutexes? < 1456979427 450813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: block until something happens on any of multiple threads < 1456979451 920753 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: semaphores < 1456979470 689150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: semaphores would work fine, but SFML doesn't supply them as a primitive < 1456979478 133454 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: most platforms do though < 1456979479 23474 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : oh I see < 1456979483 262826 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence b) < 1456979491 893419 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : ...what's the application for that? < 1456979492 34487 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to find something more primitive < 1456979497 396456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1456979524 55726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: the situation is that I am writing a library (libuncursed; coppro's worked on it in the past too) that presents an event-loop interface to programs using it < 1456979536 917957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and abstracts over a number of different backends (currently, POSIX, Windows, and SDL) < 1456979542 256142 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely semaphores < 1456979553 14591 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how about < 1456979590 182061 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :event handling thread blocks on one mutex < 1456979591 145911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are others that could be sensible, too (e.g. X, GDI) < 1456979614 293968 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of the multiple other threads can unlock that mutex < 1456979622 429274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't unlock a mutex unless you hold it, surely < 1456979628 409443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks to see if SFML have messed this up
< 1456979660 106052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it doesn't say that you can't unlock a mutex while another thread holds it < 1456979683 1232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's worth experimenting with < 1456979700 818651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems vulnerable to race conditions but that maybe isn't insoluble < 1456979706 428334 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1456979717 177948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. using a separate mutex to protect the signalling one) < 1456979721 117782 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that mutex would only be used to pause the event handling loop < 1456979771 13733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, let's see < 1456979773 939695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have two mutexes < 1456979778 404654 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each particular ressource would have its own mutex so that the owner thread of that ressource would unlock its ressource, then unlock the event handling thread's mutex < 1456979782 899750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, bleh < 1456979786 247867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these mutexes are recursive < 1456979817 321404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious algorithm, assuming you can unlock someone else's mutex, ends with the event handling thread intentionally deadlocking on itself < 1456979822 556352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't do that with a recursive mutex < 1456979835 748721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we'll have to create a separate thread purely to deadlock it < 1456979894 897902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so three locks (A, B, C), two "special" threads (event and deadlock), N generic threads < 1456979932 399954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :netutral state is A locked by deadlock, event waiting on it; B locked by event, deadlock waiting on it; C unlocked < 1456979958 52924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a generic thread wants to send a message, it locks C, pushes the message on a queue, unlocks A if the queue was empty (this is protected by C), unlocks C < 1456980035 931267 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456980086 938530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when event gets past the deadlock, it locks C, and handles messages from the queue until it's empty; then, hmm < 1456980091 311083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SFML doesn't even have a trylock < 1456980102 153996 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of use is having a general event handling thread like that for? < 1456980107 978023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do we get back into the deadlocked state? < 1456980153 94795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: say you want to wait for a key to be pressed, or for 1 second to pass < 1456980164 525893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the timer thread and keypress handling thread have to be different for some reason < 1456980233 960530 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit of a weird test case < 1456980238 70430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your two options are: run the entire logic of the program on whichever thread happened to be the one that received the event (key/timer); or send all the messages to the same thread < 1456980281 53841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a weird test case at all, it's a common enough operation that, say, both ncurses and uncursed provide a function that does exactly that (although ofc the timeout's configurable) < 1456980298 969256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for another example, say you want to wait for either a keypress, or receiving a network packet < 1456980344 118599 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :multimedia apps often just keep processing video frames and handke keypresses on next frame < 1456980368 918784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a common way to write IRC clients (although in this case the responses to a keypress and to a network packet are different enough that you can run them on different threads without too much effort, that isn't something you should have to do) < 1456980435 460578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: that's terrible for battery life, though < 1456980442 879755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to be able to block until something happens, rather than having to poll < 1456980451 565976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact it's the reason I wanted to move away from SDL in the first place) < 1456980493 789721 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on if you have the case where your app does nothing when there's no input < 1456980534 845657 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I guess is sensible for an irc client but not a game < 1456980558 689172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: turn-based games often do nothing when there's no input < 1456980571 197356 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they have audio < 1456980588 195224 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different thread < 1456980605 883808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio is one of those things that can safely be run in an independent thread, yes < 1456980616 877011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or interrupt-to-interrupt, on less powerful systems < 1456980625 780037 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that means you have at least one always active thread < 1456980626 491941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why it's often the only thing that works when the rest of the game crashes < 1456980643 560429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: no? audio thread blocks until the sample buffer drains, typically < 1456980645 237598 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that you might as well do polling on your event handler thread < 1456980652 147367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only so much the audio thread can do before blocking < 1456980662 920969 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : yes, which happens at least 50 times per second < 1456980665 535384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not running in a busy loop calculating samples < 1456980672 970956 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any primitive atomics on shared memory? < 1456980697 858997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 50fps is still slower than a typical video framerate < 1456980707 614519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: std::atomic would work in this case, I think < 1456980711 703892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's C__ < 1456980711 888290 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although last time I touched that stuff I got terrible radiation burns) < 1456980713 603509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* C++ < 1456980787 265574 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you mean by "atomic" < 1456980836 898933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: a variable that supports operations that cannot be interfered with by other threads < 1456980841 353910 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for typical cases it's really the operations you do on your primitive that are atomic, I guess... and yeah I guess std::atomic does this for you < 1456980845 158340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a range of atomic operations, some more useful than others < 1456980858 983393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test-and-set is a common example of a primitive that's powerful enough to build anything else < 1456980876 126736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set-to-specific-value, that is, not set-to-1) < 1456980903 296690 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the equivalent of lock cmpxchg? :D < 1456980904 564424 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think we used a swap operation in my OS class < 1456980929 714369 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a compare and swap? < 1456980952 611541 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely CAS. Just swap isn't sufficiently general I don't think. < 1456980973 348970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IIRC pure swap is sufficiently general, but much more complex to use < 1456980983 40479 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. < 1456980986 185029 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it needs the compare to handle the case where some other thread has changed the value < 1456980993 568191 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :between the read and the write < 1456980997 130975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can construct a boolean test-and-set out of a swap by swapping in a 0 or 1 < 1456981007 182187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swapped-out value is the test, swapped-in value is the set < 1456981014 689146 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't find hardware without CAS really, so it's not worth the effort. < 1456981015 674105 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah we used just swap < 1456981044 839953 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OS ran on some sort of virtual machine < 1456981055 85593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically use the test-and-set as a mutex to guard a non-atomic operation on shared memory < 1456981063 595598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you might have to spin until the value is not set any more, though < 1456981084 559856 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does swap guarantee that some other thread hasn't changed the value after your read but before your write? < 1456981085 478846 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, that's what we did, I remeber it now < 1456981109 305612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: atomic swap guarantees that because atomic < 1456981127 876815 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think maybe it just freezes the other processors? who knows < 1456981129 979205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so SFML on Linux, at least, uses pthreads < 1456981149 182384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: it actually uses quite a complex locking mechanism internally < 1456981162 973798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the processors will block on the lock on the memory address if they try to access the same address < 1456981169 382455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might also be some memory barriers involved < 1456981187 408966 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in my course we were on a vitual machine, so who knows < 1456981192 639374 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : but you can't prevent the swap if the value has changed < 1456981200 29811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: which value? < 1456981210 779793 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you're trying to do an atomic increment < 1456981214 542860 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :value is 0 < 1456981222 748926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: you don't do the swap on the value you're incrementing < 1456981226 447159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it on a second, guard value < 1456981237 251630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is 1 while in the middle of an increment, and 0 the rest of the time < 1456981243 905385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to increment, first you swap the guard value with 1 < 1456981248 896159 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe cmpxchg is better for real processors because you don't need so much locking < 1456981267 395834 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmpxchg lets you have atomics without having a second guard value like that. < 1456981273 593896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you swapped a 0 out of it, then you do the increment, and swap a 0 back in (and will get a 1 after your swap unless shenanigans) < 1456981276 602026 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : cmpxchg lets you do atomic increment without a guard value yeah < 1456981290 121139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you swapped a 1 out of it, then you try again; you swapped a 1 with a 1 so you didn't interfere with the process that's currently doing the increment < 1456981309 82376 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they made us do it with swap only because it's harder < 1456981312 872338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with compare-and-swap, what you do is you first (nonatomically) read the value, say it's x < 1456981321 230306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you swap in x+1 if the current value is x < 1456981332 245450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you swapped an x out, everything is fine, you're done < 1456981333 182326 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : but what if you have a 1 and then a third thread comes in? then the third thread will see a false 0 < 1456981354 946028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't, then try again, you didn't change anything as you did a read and a failed-CAS < 1456981360 476873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: no it won't < 1456981396 905672 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1456981402 258958 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I guess I see < 1456981407 839236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my program: /*x*/ while (swap(guard, 1)); /*y*/ val++; /*z*/ swap(guard, 0) < 1456981430 197622 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that works if the cpu doesn't reorder memory writes < 1456981439 974607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1456981443 379091 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reads < 1456981450 403818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an atomic swap is normally assumed to contain appropriate memory barriers < 1456981458 460667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to protect anything that's ordered relative to it < 1456981469 107419 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it should work on x86 but not necessarily other platforms < 1456981474 513988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(either in the processor architecture itself, or because it's a wrapper for the instruction + the barrier) < 1456981496 631881 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: The underlying instruction, sure, but any real-world use would have the appropriate memory barrier. < 1456981496 827749 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : as opposed to cmpxchg which.... doesn't really need barriers I think? < 1456981512 964263 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not at all helpful if it's not a synchronization primitive. :) < 1456981543 159009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: well it depends on what the memory sequencing properties of the compare-and-swap are < 1456981553 511406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to contain at least a barrier on the things it's swapping < 1456981569 643572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really you need them in order to avoid time paradoxes < 1456981576 157106 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the point of compare-and-swap is to have memory order guarantees against some other thread also doing compare-and-swap on the same value < 1456981594 644532 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably it has at least some kind of barrier against itself < 1456981625 891668 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the "lock" prefix on x86. < 1456981638 371772 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1456981641 869926 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without it, cmpxchg isn't atomic WRT other threads. :) < 1456981645 751054 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1456981648 844645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that happens in Verity at the moment (assignment in Verity is atomic but has no barrier): new x := 0 in new y := 0 in {{x := 1; y := 2} || {y := 1; x := 2}}; print(!x); print(!y) < 1456981661 574866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can print 1 1 even if you had a barrier betwen the parallel assignment and the prints < 1456981705 10740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because there's no barrier between the assignments to x and to y, and in particular, the four assignments can happen /literally/ simultaneously, in which case it's unspecified which ones win < 1456981726 440982 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems normal? < 1456981743 461686 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's weird to people used to x86's memory model. < 1456981755 669139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: well there isn't any way to interleave {x := 1; y := 2} and {y := 1; x := 2} that leaves both variables set to 1 < 1456981768 34587 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1456981773 625824 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x := 1 happens < 1456981783 41779 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1456981804 254600 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reordering is fun. < 1456981811 710935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's not even reordering < 1456981815 247946 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the print() stuff happens on the 2nd thread? < 1456981815 730171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just simultaneity < 1456981823 942018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: || is a thread split + join < 1456981824 408766 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the x:=2 < 1456981841 15856 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the join? < 1456981849 412684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I temporarily fork into two threads, one does {x := 1; y := 2} and the other does {y := 1; x := 2} < 1456981851 968626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the threads join < 1456981857 282621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :|| is a fork + join operator < 1456981875 271489 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're right, that can't happen in the x86 memory model < 1456981883 347453 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the compiler reorders the writes < 1456981895 431714 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which afaik it totally can) < 1456981898 566005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Verity, the compiler doesn't reorder the writes, it's just that all four happen at the exact same time < 1456981918 225608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: right, in gcc you'd need a compiler barrier < 1456981922 466533 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The x86 memory model is one of the stronger ones out there. < 1456981927 911149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "asm volatile ();" < 1456981937 885894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent gcc reversing the order of the assignments to x and to y < 1456981943 662651 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : they probably had no choice :D < 1456981951 702046 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering all the apps out there < 1456981960 705227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well most programs out there at the time were single-threaded < 1456981961 907525 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure if that's actually a full compiler barrier. < 1456981967 978876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: err, right < 1456981971 960902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm volatile (:::"memory") < 1456981973 79854 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use asm volatile("" ::: "memory"); < 1456981979 81621 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1456982025 213358 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably less compiler memory op reordering on x86 though < 1456982033 692349 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the structure of the instruction set < 1456982036 278886 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It's actually a fairly arbitrary choice, given that it would *only* effect programs and OSes that were aware of multiprocessing, and when introduced this was very close to 0. < 1456982104 472310 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that when real multiprocessor systems started to happen there were a few apps that started failing < 1456982112 651129 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that many tho < 1456982156 916476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Verity's || operator was called , in Algol < 1456982162 429579 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they'd be ones that used threads incorrectly. < 1456982171 979419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verity is an Algol derivative, after all, so it's not surprising it has one < 1456982188 763240 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is {x := 1; y := 2} implicitly unordered? < 1456982188 896490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it's surprising that it isn't seen more often in modern languages < 1456982192 891299 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why it would be not that many -- threading is a bit niche without multiprocessor systems. < 1456982193 152779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: no, it's ordered < 1456982208 221958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assignment to x happens before, or simultaneously with, assignment to y < 1456982228 299070 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'or simultaneously with' < 1456982247 994933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a write to a variable cannot happen simultaneously with a write or read that comes earlier < 1456982261 454577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if a write and read happens simultaneously you get the new value < 1456982265 410141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, those are Verity's timing rules < 1456982274 70028 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Huh, that's actually kinda-sorta related to C's , introducing a sequence point, then, isn't it? < 1456982278 526643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by simultaneously, I mean on the same clock edge) < 1456982288 218225 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no, no it isn't. < 1456982308 550209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for if you want even more detail on how it works: < 1456982320 266546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's call-by-name so naming a variable can be seen a bit like a function call < 1456982328 67114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same call can't return twice on the same cycle < 1456982347 603948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, for "simple" reads of variables the call can be optimized out < 1456982375 151580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it just looks at the bits in memory directly) < 1456982410 970764 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all read/writes in a group are to different variables, they can happen all at the same time? < 1456982417 279612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1456982429 123535 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I guess they can be reordered no? :D < 1456982438 787807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the same call can't return twice on the same cycle" is the /only/ rule slowing the program down (apart from some corner cases wrt recursion) < 1456982444 441768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: no, in x := 1; y := 2 < 1456982449 520990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the write to y can't happen before the write to x < 1456982457 990724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens simultaneously (same clock cycle) or later < 1456982488 759132 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1456982490 983433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in this particular case it would be simultaneous because 2 is a constant, and thus there's nothing that could delay the write to y) < 1456982569 339426 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 NICK :bender| < 1456982577 802577 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 QUIT :Changing host < 1456982577 935944 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456982583 496723 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you had x := some_calculation; y := 2 < 1456982584 87883 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1456982586 82813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw I consider this behaviour to potentially be a bug, but we've decided that for the time being at least it isn't (also it makes the program run faster, which is a good thing in the abstract) < 1456982601 933741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: x and y would be assigned at the same time, when the calculation completed < 1456982619 334997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile x := 2; y := some_calculation would assign x first, start the calculation that cycle, and assign y when the calculation completed < 1456982624 468647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might or might not be that cycle < 1456982632 767639 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about < 1456982646 495945 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x := some_calculation; y := some_calculation < 1456982648 551490 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1456982688 798212 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much of y's calculation can overlap with x's calculation? < 1456982695 571337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs the calculation, when it finishes delays one cycle; then assigns the result to x and starts running the calculation again, when it finishes assigns the result to y < 1456982732 743722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the "delays one cycle", this is automatically inserted to fulfil the rule that prevents the same block of code being used for two different purposes at the same time < 1456982749 564522 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about < 1456982756 437646 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x := some_calculation; y := some_other_calculation < 1456982772 963017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those could happen on the same cycle (unless the two calculations involve shared resources) < 1456982782 325149 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1456982783 946817 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1456982785 762440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, they only would if some_other_calcuation took zero cycles < 1456982800 302537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as some_other_calculation doesn't start until some_calculation has finished < 1456982802 417621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to complete the set < 1456982810 808886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x := some_calculation || y := some_other_calculation < 1456982824 142961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would run both calculations in parallel regardless of what arguments they took or how long they took < 1456982877 133771 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this designed for some specific piece of hardware? :D < 1456982959 638684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much the opposite: it designs specific pieces of hardware < 1456982969 96949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to run the program you entered < 1456982977 676974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. via programming an FPGA < 1456982986 660685 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it compile to verilog or something like that? < 1456982989 238680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1456982992 930325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL, in this case < 1456983003 638630 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1456983027 791652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc the big advantage of designing hardware is that you can do things in parallel for free < 1456983036 168668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as you don't need access to shared resources < 1456983077 100300 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1456983078 724713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my coworkers is looking into rewriting "x := a; y := b" as "x := a || y := b" if it can prove that the two programs always do the same thing < 1456983092 564639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would give a big efficiency gain without requiring people to place all the || in manually < 1456983111 890011 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like an aliasing resolution problem < 1456983130 269003 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxuiakmfhjpgzmxz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1456983217 316708 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard approach to that is renaming but then it can parallelize the variables but not the name changes < 1456983218 405968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, much of our theoretical research has been in that direction < 1456983233 895694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, we statically know whether any two things can share or not < 1456983248 483995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have aliasing problems because Verity disallows storing anything other than integers in pointers < 1456983255 979624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*integers in variables < 1456983261 55476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in particular, you can't store a pointer in a variable) < 1456983398 40404 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it know what to put in dram, block ram and in logic fabric registers? < 1456983560 324416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays go in block ram, non-array variables in logic fabric (unless a large number of copies are required due to, e.g., them being local to a recursive function) < 1456983571 235259 :lambda-calc!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 NICK :lambda-11235 < 1456983572 333916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dram isn't used by the language itself but you could write a library to access it < 1456983591 793974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you're talking about external ram) < 1456983599 65764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("d" could expand in more than one way here) < 1456983910 182896 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456983937 609223 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "array[x] := n || array[y] := m" a compilation error? < 1456983999 974693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but only because arrays use () for indexing rather than [] < 1456984022 669019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, interestingly, "array(x) := n || array(y) := m || array(z) := l" will give you a warning < 1456984044 638060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is that you can't do more than two writes to block RAM simultaneously in hardware < 1456984059 443170 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah obviously < 1456984065 991770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus it has to add extra components to serialize the writes so that no more than two happen at a time < 1456984120 450159 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what mode does it use the bram's port in? read_before_write? < 1456984143 789684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"warning: made 3 copies of an array's read/write ports" "info: at most two read/write ports can be supported efficiently" < 1456984150 347959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and read-before-write, yes < 1456984167 128543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it matters, all that changes is the behaviour in race conditions < 1456984237 22470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I'm currently working on implementing pipelining < 1456984260 4258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case "array(x) := n || array(y) := m || array(z) := l" would do the writes on three consecutive cycles and thus you wouldn't get the warning < 1456984283 173993 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then your throughput would go down :D < 1456984401 325902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; this is something we might want to look at later < 1456984587 484689 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been really into trying to find an alternative to RISC/CISC/VLIW for practical CPUs < 1456984709 939646 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to balance between too static-scheduled (VLIW being simple but stalling easily etc) and too dynamic-scheduled (RISC/CISC start breaking down majorly over about 4 instructions per cycle) < 1456984753 744817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as this is #esoteric, I'm wondering if there are any other alternatives < 1456984776 69930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's a pretty hppavilion[1] reaction to the problem < 1456984786 282031 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some interesting designs but nothing approaching the simplicity of RISC < 1456984821 141254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a CPS processor? < 1456984834 442679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "run this command, once it finishes running, do this other thing next" < 1456984845 749857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's pretty similar to hyperthreading, really < 1456984864 831866 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it falls down on what exactly a "command" is :D < 1456984870 74596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a reason processors don't run entirely on hyperthreading < 1456984912 784997 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought hyperthreading was basically just a way to keep the cpu active when loads have fallen out of data cache and it's that or stalling < 1456984916 223819 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1456984949 787537 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1456984958 137817 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, in the case of sparc, a way of wiggling their way out of doing an out-of-order while keeping okay performance :D < 1456985012 42743 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : what runs in parallel in a CPS processor? < 1456985052 573365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I guess you can start multiple commands (well, opcodes) running at the same time < 1456985058 464497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically via the use of a fork opcode < 1456985082 794693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, do we also need a join, or do we just exit and run the code for its side effects? < 1456985098 727648 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you tell if the opcodes are truly independent or have dependencies? < 1456985161 922991 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1456985195 339473 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the approach I've been looking at is extremely small "threads" < 1456985202 404454 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, 3 instruction long for instance < 1456985244 679525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to, you just run them whenever they become runnable < 1456985276 500035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that if you add join, this is basically just a case of an explicit dependency graph < 1456985288 837492 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your commands do loads/stores on the same memory you need to know what happens < 1456985293 144183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit different from VLIW < 1456985300 187426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar in concept < 1456985334 580139 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLIW dependency is handled by keeping everything in some exact known sync < 1456985393 314872 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler scheduler knows the sync and fills the instruction slots < 1456985425 326447 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally it works well for DSP code (lots of multiplies and adds etc) but not well at all for load-store-jump code < 1456985433 305931 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why VLIW is typically used in DSPs < 1456985464 77570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1456985470 253458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm basically thinking of the Verity model but on a CPU < 1456985493 507397 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some CPUs simply run all loads and stores in-order < 1456985496 427573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if two things don't have dependencies on each other, you run them in parallel < 1456985504 457985 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else can be reordered willy-nilly though < 1456985540 756629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that the CPU needs to be able to handle large numbers of threads at once (probably a few hundred in registers, and swapping if the registers get full), and needs very cheap fork/join < 1456985543 571234 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : true, but if your two things are memory addresses calculated late in the pipeline, it's very hard to tell that they have dependencies < 1456985555 803171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, so long as you have enough threads available, you don't care much about memory latency, only bandwidth < 1456985566 43189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run something else while you're waiting < 1456985579 3486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is similar to GPUs but GPUs are SIMD at the lowest levels, this is MIMD < 1456985600 522411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: well the dependencies would be calculated by the compiler < 1456985616 280869 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler can only calculate so many dependencies < 1456985619 823201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally via the use of a language in which aliasing problems can't happen < 1456985642 275688 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ALIW and OLIW are some alternatives to RISC, CISC, and VLIW < 1456985643 113671 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the ideal situation for the compiler is that loads and stores never move < 1456985654 679205 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every other instruction is easy to move < 1456985670 551766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most practical languages, though, loads and stores happen a lot < 1456985682 844101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can we invent some sort of functional memory for functional languages? < 1456985684 513572 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just calculations and it's all in SSA form so it knows exactly what depends on what and how to reorder stuff < 1456985693 345593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. memory never changes once allocated, it can go out of scope though < 1456985699 227192 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought of that once- the ASM of Haskells < 1456985708 673825 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I was thinking of was C++ with absolutely no pointers < 1456985722 861094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use Verity :-P < 1456985723 458611 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every object or array is copy-on-write < 1456985731 745412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have been some experiments of getting it to run on CPU < 1456985762 568617 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dynamic typing or garbage collection or other slow features < 1456985775 903303 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What other properties should the FMM have? < 1456985787 24562 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only copy-on-write because it's the one thing that can prevent aliasing < 1456985801 162980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: FMM? < 1456985808 7427 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Functional Memory Model < 1456985826 197621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: not the only thing, you can use clone-on-copy instead < 1456985829 750354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just slower usually < 1456985856 202422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's faster for very small amounts of data, around the scale of "if you have fewer bits in your data than you do in an address") < 1456985861 887190 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then don't you need references if you use clone-on-copy < 1456985865 348902 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1456985910 695315 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :references so that you can point to objects that you're going to read from without doing tons of copies < 1456985920 117843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was efficient < 1456985922 830119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it works < 1456985951 632933 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I'm suggesting copy-on-write < 1456985966 437667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: the main problem with a functional memory model is handling deallocation < 1456985979 151620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can a) use reference counts, b) use a garbage collector, c) clone on copy < 1456985994 382445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :method c) is used by most esolang impls AFAIK < 1456986015 336114 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do haskell etc use? < 1456986067 477396 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Interesting... < 1456986104 89730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: normally garbage collectors, for most workloads it's the most efficient known solution < 1456986117 326198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it requires a lot of complexity to get it more efficient than reference counting < 1456986161 387304 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can functional programming generate cycles? < 1456986163 624018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally like reference counting, especially because it allows you to implement an optimization whereby if something is unaliased at runtime (i.e. the reference count is 1), you can just change it directly rather than having to copy it first < 1456986187 516991 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what copy-on-write is no? < 1456986207 830642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are language features which can cause cycles to be generated; however, some functional languages don't include those features < 1456986242 94231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy-on-write doesn't necessarily check for refcount 1, some implementations check for never-cloned instead < 1456986265 50832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that you don't have to update the refcount when something leaves scope < 1456986281 149429 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if it was cloned but then the clone went out of scope? < 1456986287 53941 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have a useless copy < 1456986290 459248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1456986307 504057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without a refcount you don't know it's useless until the next gc cycle < 1456986346 187478 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of having COW everything is that also when you need a copy, typically you only need a copy of the topmost layer < 1456986358 285527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that the extra copies are faster than the refcount updating < 1456986362 231960 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie an object containing a bunch of sub-objects < 1456986374 750452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely because you're just copying a wrapper that contains a couple of pointers < 1456986384 81446 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to copy the object, you don't need any copy of the sub-objects < 1456986391 592215 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the ones that are really different < 1456986392 423164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I think we're making the same point here < 1456986453 401704 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how expensive is refcounting anyways? < 1456986457 865569 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just +/- < 1456986473 691077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty expensive because it screws up your cache < 1456986492 257280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever something gets copied or freed, you have to a) dereference it, b) write a word of memory next to it < 1456986517 188422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that less fits in your cache, and copy and free operations end up bumping something into cache that isn't immediately needed < 1456986527 406971 :mysanthrop!~myname@84.200.43.57 NICK :myname < 1456986528 201320 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it reading in 1 cache line that's probably going to be read by whatever next object operation on that object? < 1456986542 497530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a free, you probably aren't planning to use the object again for a while ;-) < 1456986600 728020 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for a free you start by -- refcount, checking it, it's 0, then you have to go through the whole destructor so that's more accesses to object variables no? < 1456986702 739684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're assuming there's a nontrivial destructor < 1456986714 651016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not, destructor is often trivial < 1456986743 804519 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it must decrease child object refcounts no? < 1456986751 955458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, /but/ we're comparing refcounting to GC < 1456986754 589130 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eventually call free() < 1456986761 245137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC doesn't need to decrease the child object refcoutns < 1456986827 199813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't have a need to pull the object into cache < 1456986850 38900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I think there's little doubt that refcounting is better if you have a lot of nontrivial destructors < 1456986855 449934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't come up very often < 1456986882 936140 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1456986937 824243 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1456987020 74741 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like it depends on the "shape" of the objects you're freeing < 1456987034 993847 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on average size and average number of levels < 1456987113 553738 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :other issue is < 1456987130 920957 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have some large global object with some error logger in it < 1456987167 770902 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some function of some small object within that global object does whatever < 1456987173 66083 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then logs an error < 1456987209 962100 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do avoid forcing the user to make the function take the large global object as an explicit argument? :D < 1456987261 34303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the largest problems in OO, possibly programming generally < 1456987272 237559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of proposed solutions but I'm not sure if any of them are actually good ones < 1456987306 240869 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know only the C++ solution, which is that you store a pointer to the large global object in the small object < 1456987313 87325 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that breaks any purity < 1456987338 924129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up dependency injection, it's crazy < 1456987358 978462 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it introduces a reference cycle < 1456987379 946180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, dependency injection frameworks < 1456987391 199859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependency injection itself is just the concept of passing the large global as an argument < 1456987399 151023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the interest comes from doing it /implicitly/ < 1456987416 59600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally via some sort of code transformation, either at compile-time or run-time < 1456987419 470559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is why it's crazy) < 1456987460 888117 :nortti_!nortti@ayu.smar.moe NICK :nortti < 1456987577 535817 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow < 1456987624 949245 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :without solving aliasing then basically you're designing a cpu for executing C++ < 1456987674 316499 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think it's possible to design a cpu for higher level languages < 1456987711 131799 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because C++ tends to have all the real low latency operations basically < 1456987738 948037 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in particular the ones that have few sideeffects < 1456987744 739930 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :side effects are deadly < 1456987826 963995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't think a language can be considered higher-level nowadays if it doesn't provide at least some way to manage side effects < 1456987863 123638 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, aside from functional languages < 1456987883 841511 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my impression is that most high level languages have great tools for CAUSING side effects < 1456987887 777539 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1456987922 383109 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :witness all the perl-python-lua-js type of languages that never even got multithreading < 1456988111 11031 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any approach other than multithreading and functional-style-purity for managing side effects < 1456988132 31202 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially long-term side effects < 1456988185 960483 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for short term side effects generally you have the whole LLVM style thing where it uses SSA on non-memory values and then LLVM-style alias resolution loads/stores < 1456988193 61464 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and...that's it! < 1456988247 313438 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count SIMD as a form of side-effect management < 1456988252 351823 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I guess it is!) < 1456988284 988967 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxvtzqcbhsrtdwzn JOIN :#esoteric < 1456988470 971577 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the MIPS is still the "top" design in a way < 1456988490 17036 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1456988672 273555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: well Verity compiles via an intermediate language SCI, which has the property that aliasing will fail to compile < 1456988691 802360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it sacrifices quite a lot to accomplish that < 1456988699 293793 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures < 1456988754 721427 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it compiles to vhdl so it's essentially a low level language no? < 1456988755 24777 :carado!~carado@savhon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1456988810 272795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Verity is low level, yes < 1456988824 982342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the principles behind SCI were originally expressed in a language which was (at the time, at least) pretty high level < 1456989040 182855 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're going towards agressive threading then the target kind of cpu is pretty clear < 1456989050 973738 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stick in a bunch of in-order RISCs < 1456989058 693461 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as many as you can fit < 1456989092 694590 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each new core = new DCACHE = 1 more potential load per cycle < 1456989110 551098 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2 loads if you have a 2 port DCACHE < 1456989158 534477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you also need to have more threads "ready to go" than you do CPUs < 1456989166 276740 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1456989173 87311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can suspend some while waiting for memory access, branch prediction failure, etc. < 1456989179 387839 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll probably want some degree of hyperthreading to fill in stalls < 1456989181 890351 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1456989189 172174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if you have enough hyperthreads you needn't even bother to predict branches < 1456989199 694090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run something meanwhile while working out whether to take them or not < 1456989214 895694 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1456989268 755526 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the branch predictor is worth the trouble < 1456989281 608187 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that complex at low IPC < 1456989305 387135 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also at low IPC your pipeline is likely to be short < 1456989360 812582 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basically the ultraSPARC < 1456989388 347391 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oriented towards load-store-jump code that has lots of threads < 1456989391 667854 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie servers < 1456989446 379949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could totally write a compiler to use lots of threads if they were that lightweight < 1456989454 411086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they'd be very load-store-jump-mimd heavy < 1456989495 512153 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need some sort of threading that doesn't have to go through the OS's scheduler < 1456989548 129538 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get people to use tons of small threads in their code < 1456989562 493575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1456989575 786154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is something that'll be increasingly necessary to increase performance as time goes on < 1456989599 290851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hardware thread scheduling is a natural extension of that < 1456989620 378292 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that generally if the OS's scheduler is involved, that probably already wipes out your potential benefits in lots of cases < 1456989642 571601 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you looked at Rust? I don't remember if it came up yet and whether I've told my first impression opinions. < 1456989647 247064 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's a limit to how much threading you can get going < 1456989668 695789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, this channel used to have a lot of rust discussion < 1456989671 951661 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every cpu you add to a system makes the synchronization system between core memories harder < 1456989673 29226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1456989684 833810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I don't think I know your opinion on Rust, either because you haven't told me or because I've forgotten < 1456989695 572438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: NUMA < 1456989728 632645 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's starting to sound like the PS3's CELL :D < 1456989791 828482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ahead of its time < 1456989831 290348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUMA is going to get more and more popular as time goes on, basically because there just isn't really any other option if we want computers to keep getting faster in terms of ability-to-execute-programs < 1456989851 444054 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always aggressive SIMD < 1456989888 37543 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives you nothing for load-store-jump programs < 1456989907 223307 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think anything's going to help load-store-jump programs by this point < 1456989955 224554 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: simd and numa have different roles. they both help, and I'm very interested in simd, but at some point even if you write optimal simd programs to reduce memory and cache load, you'll run out of memory bandwidth, and numa is the only technically realistic way to increase it < 1456989962 189688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with SIMD is that although it's good for some workloads, those are typically the workloads you'd run on a GPU < 1456989975 108946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not quite true < 1456989978 595489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's more of a stopgap until people get better at writing multithreaded programs < 1456989980 321471 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no way < 1456989991 906675 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CELL worked because video games have some mathy calculations to offload < 1456990017 887445 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's that people are buying into the GPU hype and very few people are trying to learn to actually use SIMD and cpu programming in a good way < 1456990036 190616 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is partly why I'm very interested about it) < 1456990043 363028 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put hundreds of cores on a CPU if they can't access any memory :D < 1456990053 290828 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, there's some overlap, but still, I don't think GPUs will solve everything < 1456990079 588779 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpus solve one problem, rendering video games < 1456990110 705544 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :other problems might see a speed gain only as much as they look like video game rendering :D < 1456990114 255312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs actually have similar levels of SIMDiness to CPUs; their strength is that they can run the same code on thousands of threads, but not necessarily with the same control flow patterns < 1456990152 795844 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell the GPU's advantage is that basically memory writes only happen to the frame buffer < 1456990158 371222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're bad at pointer-heavy stuff, and in general, at things with unpredictable memory access patterns < 1456990164 587548 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so GPUs have essentially no aliasing to solve < 1456990195 14581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: they have block-local storage, which is basically a case of manually-controlled caching < 1456990201 323240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you load and flush the cache lines manually < 1456990215 20767 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once aliasing comes into the picture (or heavy feedback loops) CPUs take the upper hand afaik < 1456990246 782372 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be dismissing gpu stuff too much due to how overhyped it is < 1456990268 117587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: it's mostly just that GPUs are bad at pointers < 1456990287 73948 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes down to how few GPU-able problems there are I think < 1456990287 611527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliasing isn't any harder than dereferencing nonaliased memory, they're both hard < 1456990339 305345 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliasing forces your memory operations to be in-order basically < 1456990356 649517 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adds lots of heavy checks the more you reorder your operations < 1456990388 714425 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually you end up with giant content-addressable-alias-resolution buffers and whatnot < 1456990411 893355 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything becomes speculative < 1456990431 318742 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456990457 441638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how useful is unpredictable aliasing from a program's point of view? < 1456990465 999064 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: SIMD is a good fit for "occasional", "one-off" computations. GPGPU is a good fit for "pervasive" large computations. people seems to easily confuse the differences. < 1456990497 311253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: hmm: what would you say is the best way to zero a large amount of RAM? < 1456990499 670805 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : it's mandatory to guarantee correctness < 1456990506 150963 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and when one needs occasional large computations, one is advised to avoid them) < 1456990508 20836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: not from the compiler's point of view < 1456990509 607626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program itself < 1456990522 128770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do you write a program that benefits from aliasing, and can't predict where it happens in advance? < 1456990528 750939 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: DMA. < 1456990531 231021 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, kidding! < 1456990542 829357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: that didn't seem that stupid to me < 1456990545 261966 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1456990558 528785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually thinking that systems might benefit from a dedicated hardware memory zeroer < 1456990570 133568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows apparently zeroes unused memory in its idle thread < 1456990578 220671 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I think it is not a good way to approach the problem. why do you need a large amount of zeroed memory after all? < 1456990589 122760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as something to do (thus it has a supply of zeroed memory to hand out to programs that need it) < 1456990619 465471 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I guess SIMD or other OS-sanctioned approach is the necessary < 1456990625 328556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: basically a) because many programs ask for zeroed memory; b) you can't give programs memory that came from another program without overwriting it all for security reasons, so you may as well overwrite with zeros < 1456990626 809160 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPGPU is not really an option there < 1456990631 194517 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you write to a variable, eventually you're going to want to read from it < 1456990640 688218 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fundamentally that's aliasing < 1456990646 441570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPGPU could zero GPU memory quickly just fine; the problem is that it uses different memory from the CPU < 1456990650 819626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the copy between them would be slow < 1456990658 993021 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. that's why it is not an option < 1456990660 833638 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(right now) < 1456990698 713215 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMA is a joke, but the hardware-wired way to zero memory may be somehow possible even in the current computers < 1456990703 932946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: yes but often both pointers are literals (because you use the same variable name both times), so the aliasing is predictable < 1456990711 867940 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, a delay buffer for an echo effect < 1456990724 701004 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast it aliases depends on the delay time you've set < 1456990751 586057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's a good example of a "memmove alias" < 1456990759 638275 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : aliasing isn't predictable if you use very large array indexes :D < 1456990783 749491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind-of wondering, if restrict was the default in C, how often would you have to write *unrestrict to get a typical program to work < 1456990789 880957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: larger than the array, you mean? :D < 1456990834 397086 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but the cpu doesn't know the array size < 1456990843 794823 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time even the compiler doesn't know < 1456990861 308696 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456990872 985345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: well that at least is clearly something that can be fixed by higher-level languages < 1456990880 677076 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the case of, well, you're accessing a class that has pointers in it < 1456990898 354866 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's hard to tell when your code will read out one of those pointers and write to that data < 1456990934 307051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do know what restrict means, right? < 1456990941 542411 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400::1:6e46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456990954 185705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"data accessible via this pointer parameter will not be accessed without mentioning the parameter in question" < 1456990955 817789 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : higher-level languages can abuse references to cause surprise aliasing < 1456990985 17218 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware of the exact semantics of restrict < 1456990987 722641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :example? mostly because it'll help me understand what you're considering to be higher-level < 1456991044 180406 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1456991055 763891 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider a java function working on some array < 1456991063 661650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :“ [GPUS] they're bad at pointer-heavy stuff, and in general, at things with unpredictable memory access patterns” – are they also bad at unpredictable local sequential access of memory, such as decoding a jpeg-like huffmanized image that's encoded as 256 separate streams, you have an offset table for where the huffman input of each stream and the output of each stream starts, < 1456991078 802946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and within one stream, you can read the huffman input and the output pixels roughly sequentially? < 1456991081 735886 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it reads some member variable in one of the objects it has as an argument < 1456991103 481395 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the member variable is a reference to the same array the java function is working on < 1456991109 137307 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it uses it to poke a value < 1456991138 104014 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :“ I'm kind-of wondering, if restrict was the default in C, how often would you have to write *unrestrict to get a typical program to work” – isn't that sort of what Rust is about? < 1456991142 550151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so long as what you're indexing is either a) stored in memory that's fast to read but very slow to write, or b) fits into block memory (basically a manually-controlled cache), you can dereference pointers < 1456991162 585393 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think that's how restrict in C works < 1456991162 820122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's similar, yes < 1456991185 552827 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400::1:6e46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1456991198 116231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: that's nothing to do with Java being high-level, IMO < 1456991215 427771 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this example applies to most non-pure languages < 1456991223 137372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :storing a reference to something inside the thing itself is a pretty low-level operation < 1456991225 614177 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like perl and python and whatnot < 1456991227 77556 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1456991243 297347 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, your function gets some array argument < 1456991244 605985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if you do that in Perl, you're supposed to explicitly flag the reference so as to not confuse the garbage collector < 1456991250 216570 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some object < 1456991253 468400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reference counter < 1456991263 333885 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the object has a reference to the array but you don't know < 1456991305 837123 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, if there are 256 streams, and you're decoding only one channel at a time and assembling the three channels later in a second pass, then each stream should be at most 8192 bytes long, its output also 8192 bytes long, plus there's a common huffman table and a bit of control information. < 1456991316 22485 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no self reference in my example < 1456991346 584284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: well, say, in SCI (which is designed to avoid aliasing), if you give a function two arguments, any object can only be mentioned in one of the arguments < 1456991348 794968 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and some local state for each 8x8 block that might take say 512 bytes. < 1456991355 278777 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas : isn't hufman decoding inherently sequential? < 1456991366 365291 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm assuming a 2048x1024 pixel image, 8 bit depth channels.) < 1456991391 741733 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: yes, but if you use a shared huffman table and you mark where each stream starts in the input and output, then you can decode each stream separately < 1456991420 492552 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: that is actually practicaly for image decoding, and also for image encoding or video de/encoding, but those get MUCH hairier and more complicated < 1456991422 200629 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : if it avoids aliasing then it's in a different category < 1456991440 279529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I'm saying that putting limits on aliasing is higher-level than not putting limits on aliasing < 1456991446 26019 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: note that this is pure huffman encoding, like jpeg, not deflate-like copy operations from a 16k buffer of previous output. < 1456991448 689664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it means that you have more information about the data you're moving around < 1456991467 951149 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: the copy operations are why PNG/zip decompression is really impossible to parallelize or implement fast these days < 1456991499 394996 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gzip/zip/PNG made lots of sense when they were invented, but less sense for today's hardware < 1456991523 191567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: deflate uses references to locations earlier in the output, right? how much would it change if it used references to locations as they were in the input file? < 1456991523 698662 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but JPEG is just as old and ages much better, which is why most modern video formats are similar to it, even if different in lots of specifics < 1456991537 417663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of compression ratio < 1456991537 612773 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas : I guess it works if you have multiple huffman segments that you know the start of < 1456991564 403188 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure, I don't really know about modern compression algorithms, and it probably depends on what kind of data you have. < 1456991570 109544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be GPU-acceleratable, although I haven't worked out the details yet < 1456991570 820467 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: actually I managed to persue my friend to write the similar thing with the existing deflate stream < 1456991612 80194 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't every huffman symbol basically depend on the previous one? < 1456991622 771880 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: encoding a video also references previous frames, but in a way than I think is much nicer than gzip, because you only reference one or two previous frames, so you can decode per frame. it might still get ugly. < 1456991625 259000 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or specifically the length of the previous one < 1456991646 348486 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: the point is that DEFLATE uses the end code that is distinctive enough that it can be scanned much quicker < 1456991656 172508 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the friend stucked on the LZ77 window :p < 1456991705 403898 :andrew_!~andrew@113.97.177.247 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456991707 473776 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever done some graph related database stuff? < 1456991709 68222 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was a term project AFAIK, and the friend did get A even though the prototype was only marginally faster) < 1456991719 51446 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write a toy image format and encoder and decoder, just to learn about how this stuff works, even if I don't get anything practically usable. < 1456991724 484407 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since everyone else was doing JPEG decoder stuff) < 1456991733 341544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I looked into it a bit for aimake 4 < 1456991739 958244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't reach the point where it came to actually write the code < 1456991742 798929 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are already lots of practical image coders out there.) < 1456991743 69944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so so far, all I have is plans < 1456991780 166773 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's assume I have paths in my database A -> B -> D and A -> C -> D < 1456991786 508121 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : I think "non aliasing" for higher language tends to be a synonym for "pure/no side effects" and often "functional" or maybe even "lazy-evaluated functional" < 1456991812 713255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: err, the Haskell-alikes have tons and tons of aliasing < 1456991812 846526 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to know for example if there's a traffic jam on A -> D < 1456991818 36781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just constructed so that it never matters < 1456991828 355278 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't HAVE to be this way but afaik all the "no side effects" languages are functionnal < 1456991830 940267 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: to be more exact: DEFLATE stream stores the (encoded) tree in the front, and the tree is structured so that every prefix code is ordered by the length of code and then by the lexicographical order. since the end code is least frequent it should appear at the very end, i.e. all 1s. < 1456991846 609626 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : afaik haskell has no real aliasing? < 1456991863 288737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 4 in let y = x < 1456991864 860377 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:14: parse error in let binding: missing required 'in' < 1456991871 580669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 4 in let y = x in y < 1456991873 144678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1456991885 201229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually GHC probably optimized the aliasing there out < 1456991893 908194 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: the typical stream has 10--14 one bits for the end code, so the decompressor may try to speculatively decode the stream from that point < 1456991904 881185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but x and y would be aliases in a naive Haskell implementation < 1456991911 741224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just no way to tell from within Haskell itself < 1456991914 212106 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the project was for CELL processor, quite amenable for this kind of things) < 1456991936 299471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if two things alias, the normal way you tell is either to use a language primitive that tells you that, or to modify one and see if the other changes < 1456991957 113408 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : yes but they're basically not real aliases because you can't write in one and get surprise changes in the other < 1456991960 754955 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the traffic jam could be between A -> B, B -> D, A -> C, C -> D or A -> D itself < 1456992000 297447 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple readonly pointers to the same block of memory isn't a problem < 1456992000 449135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: huh, that's an interesting operation < 1456992012 907041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: keep going and you'll invent Rust ;-) < 1456992024 474884 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other questions are: Are there paths from A to D that are not equally fast. < 1456992026 975725 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is when one of this pointers writes something < 1456992042 112317 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's impossible to say which other pointers will see the write < 1456992070 341154 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at local level it's usually possible to figure it out (LLVM's alias solving does this) < 1456992078 736130 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at global level it becomes impossible < 1456992083 363838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: the SQLite docs have an example of doing transitive closure via a recursive query < 1456992107 116064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the performance is better or worse than running Dijkstra's algorithm from outside with a series of queries < 1456992116 534816 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of x86's "voodoo" advantages < 1456992125 92087 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have to afk for some hour now, but I can tell my preliminary opinion on rust later. < 1456992128 231055 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't require memory reordering to perform well < 1456992134 138838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the constant factor should be better, but the asymptotic performance might be worse if it's using a bad algorithm) < 1456992172 253706 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was possible to do more efficient memory reordering then x86 would be gone by now < 1456992221 973916 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some RISC or VLIW would have been twice as fast as x86 and everybody would be switching < 1456992341 45238 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is, the best cpu design practice, as far as I can tell, is to assume that loads/stores aren't going to move, and rearrange basically everything else around them < 1456992476 240872 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :result: out-of-order execution < 1456992604 249006 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itanium tried to do compile time rearranging with some complex run-time checking+fallback mechanism < 1456992606 936703 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it failed < 1456992957 392586 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja QUIT :Quit: Let's jump! < 1456993281 729022 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja JOIN :#esoteric < 1456994493 681540 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1456994778 633209 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456995252 918994 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1456995614 67917 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456995870 246077 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1456996160 263508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1456996866 171673 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400:0:ed2:92ff:fe3b:ec82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456997157 172160 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400:0:ed2:92ff:fe3b:ec82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1456997373 893661 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-40-115.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1456997448 780522 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1456997794 3216 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1456997917 679313 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46491&oldid=46410 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+4885) 10Shortest known "hello world" program. -- Define "shortest"! < 1456998355 28245 :andrew_!~andrew@113.97.177.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1456999165 880868 :andrew_!~andrew@113.97.177.247 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1456999997 762276 :nisstyre_!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com NICK :nisstyre < 1457000007 720462 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1457000007 853782 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/oswg-member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1457000186 421381 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400::1:6e46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457000351 22093 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de NICK :int-e < 1457000759 424674 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400::1:6e46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457001323 877113 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1457001731 626558 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457001942 206909 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejv17.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457001978 624807 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457005047 971381 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457005345 549672 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejv17.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457007390 681015 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! < 1457007401 98658 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot < 1457007424 596911 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. < 1457007536 682591 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: MASCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! < 1457007550 783348 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, wrong autocompletion. < 1457007574 633481 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MASCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! !?!???!?!?!!???!!!!!! < 1457007802 732233 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: NONPLUSSING CHICKEN < 1457009479 555174 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejv17.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457009623 312023 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457009629 472284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO LATE < 1457010169 364043 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how are you doing < 1457010169 562973 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i'm sure it appeared on l:tu or winxp? ;p < 1457010569 974069 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457012189 878753 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457012888 915464 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457013361 582267 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejv17.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457015305 168208 :Alcest!~alcest@69.64.40.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457015440 904698 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457016134 503853 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mad can functional programming generate cycles? <-- in haskell it can, e.g. lst = 1 : lst defines a cyclic list, which is nevertheless immutable. (Technically you can in ocaml too, but only for simple constant initializers.) < 1457016134 674185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457016753 526030 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457016984 954726 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457018689 383116 :UrbanM!~Master@cpe-77.38.31.175.cable.t-1.si JOIN :#esoteric < 1457018883 926649 :UrbanM!~Master@cpe-77.38.31.175.cable.t-1.si PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi please check out my website . http://sh.st/RptZh... ty :) i promise its not a virus < 1457018925 629726 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457018956 245416 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a virus < 1457019045 766032 :UrbanM!~Master@cpe-77.38.31.175.cable.t-1.si PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi please check out my website . http://sh.st/RptZh... ty :) i promise its not a virus < 1457019133 91194 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan > 1457019133 103900 NAMES :#esoteric < 1457019154 351913 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :*!*Master@*.38.31.175.cable.t-1.si > 1457019154 359863 NAMES :#esoteric < 1457019154 485762 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no KICK #esoteric UrbanM :You are not _our_ Urban M < 1457019183 619431 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457019569 254002 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course the immutability of Haskell is a lie. < 1457019594 962284 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm alluding to thunk updates.) < 1457019624 648940 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is urban m? < 1457019681 97538 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck guy... yes < 1457019687 849946 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Urban_M%C3%BCller < 1457019719 988003 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ah, there was a question mark before the ellipsis. I typed that, then googled to confirm.) < 1457019775 469531 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :however... the user above looked more like and imposter < 1457019844 989888 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh.st... "shorten urls and learn money"... sounds legitimate < 1457020191 539048 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do we get... googla analytics, tons of ads, some trackers, and did they actually put a captcha before the embedded link? < 1457020206 934990 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm looking at page source code) < 1457020266 434060 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a ton of javascript I haven't looked at. < 1457020377 963623 :XorSwap!XorSwap@wpa-6-1196.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457020541 533832 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457020662 990831 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thus i also mentioned ocaml hth < 1457020667 380084 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan > 1457020667 388786 NAMES :#esoteric < 1457020826 60245 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw does ghc allocate a thunk for a simple lst = 1 : lst; lst :: [Int] < 1457021191 72320 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an l2 job? < 1457021201 127280 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:ddbf:f4cc:366d:c672 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457021211 144820 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :jobs outside of italy are so hard to grasp < 1457021296 921680 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457021371 787510 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1457021526 729053 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1457022264 295179 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457022298 214809 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457022578 992648 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457023229 303529 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan btw does ghc allocate a thunk for a simple lst = 1 : lst <-- wow, apparently not (checked assembly output from ghc-7.10.2 with -O2, native code gen) < 1457023229 437238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457023386 213747 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan even ghc-7.6.3 didn't allocate a thunk, that's as far back as I can easily go < 1457023386 386290 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457023847 519615 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457024138 379160 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457024671 21670 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejv17.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457025335 211907 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457025423 963701 :XorSwap!XorSwap@wpa-6-1196.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457027051 136684 :XorSwap!XorSwap@wpa-6-1196.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457027646 180636 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457028404 589738 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457028559 997648 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24.156.46.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457028841 656337 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457030024 419166 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bloomberg/bucklescript < 1457030299 947388 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457030378 52696 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457030764 32278 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-aqwhcyzbefsarqfv QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457030807 15912 :XorSwap!XorSwap@wpa-6-1196.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457030999 929339 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457032087 370451 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457032261 350680 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457032452 392291 :heroux!~heroux@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rhhwzqcjhxkntnmu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457032870 526124 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1196.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457033482 426887 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1457033611 68658 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am here < 1457034045 574109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you work out those categories? < 1457034154 186031 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm actively working on that xD < 1457034234 272930 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm currently trying to figure out the type of the arrows in example (A) < 1457034252 504939 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Type" may not be the correct word, but it gets the point across if I send this message) < 1457034264 630454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type of an arrow from A to B is A -> B < 1457034286 274785 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yeah, I mean I'm trying to figure out what they represent < 1457034312 174341 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think the only thing I've figured out is that in (A), composition represents the transitive property of ≤ < 1457034335 989019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1457034340 742067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does identity represent? < 1457034359 61451 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The fact that a value is less than or equal to itself < 1457034364 124970 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specifically, x = x) < 1457034370 395877 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka reflexivity < 1457034372 833973 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there for x ≤ x) < 1457034377 74629 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes, yes. < 1457034615 981805 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24.156.46.20 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457034677 307764 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, do arrows just represent arbitrary relations? < 1457034682 757213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An arrow doesn't have to represent anything. < 1457034689 515596 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh. < 1457034698 850413 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So an arrow can just be an arrow? < 1457034706 496662 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have to represent a function? < 1457034711 252270 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or funtro < 1457034714 382106 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*functor < 1457034721 383201 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or transformation of any sort < 1457034725 704345 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24-156-46-61.erkacmtk02.com.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457034726 684066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes an arrow is just a cigar. < 1457034746 275743 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Is arrow a type of cigar? < 1457034752 278526 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you can interpret any relation on a set as a directed graph with that set as nodes (allowing loops, not allowing multiple edges) < 1457034776 729100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrows don't have to represent functions, no. < 1457034778 512164 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't smoke, so if it is a type of cigar I wouldn't get the joke < 1457034781 867379 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well yeah < 1457034782 588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or transformations, whatever that is. < 1457034788 773863 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It was the best word I could think of < 1457034799 815816 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you really need reflexivity and transitivity to make a category that way < 1457034801 609385 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do arrows have to mean something, or can they just be arrows? < 1457034815 347691 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be just arrows < 1457034820 689460 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457034827 208869 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: And is that the case for category (A)? < 1457034860 598187 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Where a -> b iff a <= b < 1457034869 297102 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what example (A) refers to. < 1457034877 543102 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That ^ < 1457034879 176728 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1457034897 760605 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, arguably the underlying relation gives the arrow *some* meaning < 1457034912 231265 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really a philosophical question at this point. < 1457034915 160276 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Ah < 1457034936 423583 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: But do they not represent anything in the way Set has arrows representing functions? < 1457034978 69085 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1457034998 33020 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Or could it be argued that they represent Void? xd < 1457034999 471836 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xD < 1457035005 671321 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was a joke, I think) < 1457035261 780508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457036263 764700 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@24-156-46-61.erkacmtk02.com.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457036344 439623 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1196.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457037774 816274 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457037969 200366 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To allow other program to change resources of a window in the X window system, you could have the other program appends a null-terminated string to a property on that window, and then that client watches that property and reads and deletes it and adds that string into the resource manager. You can also send commands that aren't resources too in the same way, by adding a prefix to specify < 1457038051 668479 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add RESOURCE_MANAGER into the WM_PROTOCOLS list to specify that this function is available, I suppose. < 1457038083 869410 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457038097 898472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make sense to you? < 1457038337 61283 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The format of the property must be 8, the type must be STRING, and the mode must be PropModeAppend. < 1457038981 906306 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457039116 245194 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1457039832 220761 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457040273 950517 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457040616 3817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457040799 392893 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457040834 393297 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1457040856 705489 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1457040900 205124 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457041162 453245 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-72.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457041651 809812 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-40-115.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457042665 973563 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1457045007 834870 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1457045233 437470 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejv17.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457045391 238505 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1457045431 504412 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to line up the Szabó Lőrinc translation and the original of Tennyson: Ulysses exactly. But it turns out the translation is one line shoter. < 1457045450 65098 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's missing the line that would correspond to “Death closes all: but something ere the end,” < 1457046507 437225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1457047657 982087 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457047666 510482 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhun < 1457047697 779476 :shikhun!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1457047700 961666 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1457047701 94958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e said 6h 47m 51s ago: btw does ghc allocate a thunk for a simple lst = 1 : lst <-- wow, apparently not (checked assembly output from ghc-7.10.2 with -O2, native code gen) < 1457047701 95029 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e said 6h 45m 14s ago: even ghc-7.6.3 didn't allocate a thunk, that's as far back as I can easily go < 1457048043 567588 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting < 1457048173 200197 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457048475 26064 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457048537 222928 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457048610 202462 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1457048617 188268 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457048872 941558 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457048892 831925 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: fungellot. < 1457048893 157806 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it is edited to remove the 0 parameter? i was thinking < 1457048900 899842 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: no you weren't. < 1457048901 185078 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ( code is 2.1mb so that may not have < 1457048906 354139 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yes I do. < 1457048906 701641 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: wait a minute!! i am having trouble with this stub generator. it has. < 1457048927 118956 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: stub generators suck, stubs suck, and asynchronous services especially suck. < 1457048927 502006 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: sperber was here mar 17 at 11:11 pm utc, saying: or check out file-select and tcp-listener-fileno < 1457048933 89534 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it has." seems a bit too stubby indeed. < 1457048965 839579 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boheily. < 1457048999 734973 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan. < 1457049022 375387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @tell oerjan @@ @@ (@where weather) ENVA KOAK < 1457049022 508823 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's sperber? < 1457049054 720770 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellochaf. < 1457049057 826412 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1457049058 877885 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: <> < 1457049059 11130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1457049073 321705 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho hum. < 1457049088 1309 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Good afternoon, person. < 1457049124 231948 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i dunno but he was there mar 17 hth < 1457049141 275536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly oerjan < 1457049145 568512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mar 17 hasn't happened yet < 1457049163 673204 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why is fungot using past tense, duh < 1457049164 17854 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: with the procedure for-each? ie i have a question about static links. i really should read up on macros? like atom? < 1457049193 880845 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to a fungot is an irrelevant concept hth < 1457049194 246017 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i don't apply this level of dynamic typing... it mentioned that static typing is in the browser while allowing quick access to the enclosing command. < 1457049206 4228 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: are you a dreen < 1457049206 404480 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because bash gets exactly 3 parameters with that invocation, and 0 added to any number of arguments, you have < 1457049280 941779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hingot < 1457049281 304557 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: some may.....but not all. but many more possibilities than chess. many. most things just work. at least now atm < 1457049295 608058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style calvinandhobbes < 1457049295 745510 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1457049298 972700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What! < 1457049310 920632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: plz fix twh hth < 1457049506 628064 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wraps fungot in a chicken costume
< 1457049507 114500 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: and i think he said some weird things involving crazy symbols and actions. i'm purely interested in the same ballpark, and roughly between chicken and stalin might be one way of doing that < 1457049560 365070 :grabiel!~canaima@186-95-255-29.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457049611 599000 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome grabiel < 1457049633 313948 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08grabiel: 09Welcome 02to 06the 13international 04hub 07for 08esoteric 09programming 02language 06design 13and 04deployment! 07For 08more 09information, 02check 06out 13our 04wiki: 07. 08(For 09the 02other 06kind 13of 04esoterica, 07try 08#esoteric 09on 02EFnet 06or 13DALnet.) < 1457049634 517821 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( there should be a way to make my IRC client autocomplete `relcomes or something... ) < 1457049703 385985 :grabiel!~canaima@186-95-255-29.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1457049783 114472 :Yurume!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emojicode.org/ < 1457049797 427348 :Yurume!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well. yet another emoji craze < 1457049815 434377 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yurumello. have I ever seen you before? < 1457049830 843742 :Yurume!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am an alter ego of lifthrasiir < 1457049837 267869 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooh tdh < 1457049853 331600 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457049889 323416 :Yurume!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to say. < 1457049955 908249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: tdh didn't help htdh < 1457049968 664231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? htdh < 1457049969 842887 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HtDH is a classic text on How to Design Hotdogs or possibly Hogprams. It is all about functional condiments, and was co-authored by Herence Tao and Don Ho. < 1457049979 142994 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that was a canaima, you should have used `bienvenido hth < 1457050000 947834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/htdh < 1457050003 730147 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull cpressey cpressey cpressey < 1457050006 957670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what should a variant of culprits that looks in wisdom/ be called < 1457050008 185014 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tdht. < 1457050181 814868 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457050224 835284 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: pundits hth < 1457050252 85221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn pundit < 1457050253 879716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "pundit" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1457050254 13102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :pundit < 1457050254 13154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: someone who has been admitted to membership in a scholarly < 1457050254 13175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : field [syn: {initiate}, {learned person}, {pundit}, < 1457050254 13192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : {savant}] < 1457050266 900375 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mapoles oerjan (0.5 shachafs)
< 1457050299 770446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? boily < 1457050301 44723 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. < 1457050303 966815 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I found a game called TIS-100 on steam and recently bought it < 1457050309 492768 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: the "pun" at the beginning wasn't the deciding factor hth < 1457050323 450427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and yet you punned it anyway < 1457050333 466708 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was half a funpuns, so 0.5 shachafs. < 1457050333 943292 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar cyyz < 1457050334 262155 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYYZ 040000Z 08006KT 15SM FEW050 BKN160 M05/M10 A3015 RMK SC2AC5 SLP222 < 1457050335 512417 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's an ASM programming game for a massively-parallel architecture called the TIS-100 (Tessellated Intelligence System) < 1457050349 315715 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he\\oren\. did you get blizzarded? < 1457050353 900934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@where weather) cyyz < 1457050356 82734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : CYYZ 040000Z 08006KT 15SM FEW050 BKN160 M05/M10 A3015 RMK SC2AC5 SLP222 < 1457050358 860418 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little < 1457050359 702655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1457050383 386943 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wtf is @@ @@ supposed to do < 1457050419 233918 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid haskull line noise < 1457050441 686637 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rube goldberg weather forecast < 1457050508 850030 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help @ < 1457050508 983665 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : @@ [args]. < 1457050508 983781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : @@ executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used. < 1457050508 983803 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : The commands are right associative. < 1457050508 983824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : For example: @@ @pl @undo code < 1457050508 983842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : is the same as: @@ (@pl (@undo code)) < 1457050567 602556 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is @@ a kind of join < 1457050581 344892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: it's not haskell syntax hth < 1457050605 669361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell more like has kool < 1457050611 151148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :gains kool until end of turn < 1457050714 410421 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: extra points for using the original hindi पण्डित hth < 1457051294 924267 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457051566 904763 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make an ASM programming game... < 1457051578 171963 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that makes grown men cry, of course < 1457051607 369224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a TIS-100cussion on the channel at least once. < 1457051641 675207 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it. < 1457051663 503878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The game, not the discussion.) < 1457051675 564512 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yep < 1457051785 379755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not quite count as massively parallel, wasn't it at most something like 3x4 nodes? < 1457051891 453193 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457051952 612682 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's a single segment < 1457051962 208489 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457051967 121250 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In theory, it actually has thousands upon thousands of nodes < 1457051978 901602 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Alejandro15 < 1457051979 500346 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1457051980 576971 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​04Alejandro15: 07Welcome 08to 09the 02international 06hub 13for 04esoteric 07programming 08language 09design 02and 06deployment! 13For 04more 07information, 08check 09out 02our 06wiki: 13. 04(For 07the 08other 09kind 02of 06esoterica, 13try 04#esoteric 07on 08EFnet 09or 02DALnet.) < 1457052008 202608 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't parse the backstory like that at all, but I guess that's likely true, since it's always different nodes that are broken. < 1457052024 68799 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yep, I was going to say that, but the message changed xD < 1457052042 383599 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the high-level equivalent of massively parallel? < 1457052055 17066 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alejandro15: ¿habla usted español? < 1457052153 27269 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I imagine in high-level massively parallel computing, you can create new ports at runtime < 1457052180 369342 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1457052181 814637 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :massively parallel computing is a bitch. but at least there's MPI. I love MPI. < 1457052201 384696 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see, I asked something in Spanish and he didn't even answer! < 1457052205 153986 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: MPI? < 1457052221 564089 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_Passing_Interface < 1457052241 480938 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: How is MPC a bitch? < 1457052248 806842 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did MPC ever do to you? < 1457052253 377178 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were- were you dating? < 1457052254 994979 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPI: simple, easy to grok, useful, documented to hell and back, and pragmatic. < 1457052259 719064 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha :D < 1457052283 729418 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I did some research stuff with heavily parallelized SVMs a few years ago. < 1457052289 301899 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION awaits a joke about how MPI was in bed- something about practically being in two places at once or something
< 1457052303 39079 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't joke, I am sane. < 1457052310 182730 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, I don't joke that much.) < 1457052310 791039 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i think cantv.net also implies canaima hth < 1457052313 540906 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, reasonably.) < 1457052323 124960 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why I Spanished. < 1457052415 620633 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compañia Anónima Nacional Teléfonos de Venezuela" < 1457052430 600943 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's also interesting that the pattern of broken nodes is consistently the ones that you might want to use < 1457052515 665436 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next Venezuelan to join the chännel, everybody should switch to Spanish. maybe we'll catch one! < 1457052585 862938 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, canaima and cantv are not quite the same thing, but connected. < 1457052678 325869 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457052692 422992 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457052744 732836 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't joke, I am sane. <-- * now imagining a batman villain saying that... < 1457052837 232027 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesn't end well for em. < 1457052990 26599 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What would be a good architecture for an ASM game? < 1457052999 812575 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I found out today that one of the people I play D&D with is on the York submarine jousting team < 1457053148 764339 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: are you trying to keep this up until actual submarines are jousted twh < 1457053163 268967 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least models < 1457053184 18756 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I started it because I forgot what the sport was called < 1457053200 843139 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keeping it up because somehow "submarine jousting" sounds less silly than the truth < 1457053348 868665 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja NICK :ProzacElf < 1457053556 764506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, did you mention that his team are bastards < 1457053578 425925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: YOu didn't like the discussion? < 1457053718 202840 :ProzacElf!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja NICK :Elronnd < 1457053737 636355 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I didn't feel it polite < 1457053743 954228 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :He did comment that your team were very good < 1457053829 63963 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, Taneb means jousting underwater- it's sub-marine jousting < 1457053839 903055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: If you mean real architectures (games for some reason tend to prefer made-up ones), for some reason my first thought would be the Z80. < 1457053857 670015 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Architecture in the abstract I mean < 1457053870 107563 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not a specific architecture; a general architecture paradigm < 1457053907 765788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I'd just do something that actually exists. I'm not sure how that would turn out to be a "game", though. < 1457053964 12543 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think the point of those games is that the creators enjoy making the architecture < 1457054041 752386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DCPU-16 had really silly operand encodings. < 1457054126 600389 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, this is of course true, was he on their A or B team though < 1457054132 229832 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we never played the A team) < 1457054134 338174 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: shut up and don't crush my dreams < 1457054175 908193 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oooh, perhaps the arch for this game could use those negative-level MOVs? < 1457054189 970034 :7YUAAGGC0!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457054218 123417 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't know, although he certainly didn't deny it when I asked if he'd played Warwick recently < 1457054368 848823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :york A were good last time we played them, they just ended up in a tough group this year < 1457054386 105613 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :they certainly know how to organise a tournament < 1457054428 959173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always the time-honoured thing of taking some feature that actually exists (say, pipelines with delay slots) and just going overboard with it. < 1457054543 360368 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm going to bed now < 1457054544 734888 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnigh < 1457054549 553865 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonne tanuitb! < 1457054727 741831 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1457054730 367605 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alg. ii/Algae II, the successor class to Algae I. Discusses hydroponics and such. < 1457054789 522095 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 'sa\aeaæa' wisdom/alg* < 1457054793 80093 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457054836 130505 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1457054848 400200 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/alg* < 1457054849 724185 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/algebraic number theory \ wisdom/alg. ii \ wisdom/algol \ wisdom/algorithm < 1457054863 834572 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep æ wisdom/alg* < 1457054865 7003 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/alg. ii:Algæ II, the successor class to Algae I. Discusses hydroponics and such. < 1457054890 838415 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: *cough* < 1457054893 413428 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1457054895 379633 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1457054897 392755 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. < 1457054899 420210 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuh. < 1457054901 382521 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1457054909 776906 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. < 1457054919 604400 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles
< 1457055275 527404 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: One of the interesting things we can do with ASM games is have features that are nigh-impossible on real computers < 1457055278 770242 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. register sets < 1457055801 314020 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :register sets? < 1457056095 257557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457056395 999622 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1457057137 579645 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Registers that can include multiple values < 1457057144 856306 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I suppose it's a bit quantum, actually < 1457057154 225784 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But without the probabilisticness < 1457057225 121565 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have entanglement between multiple registers? < 1457057355 518608 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang this cpu design idea I'm trying to develop is so hard to get anywhere < 1457057443 606028 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the thing where you have an accumulator and chains of related operations are issued together on an execution unit and run sequentially on the accumulator) < 1457057624 46887 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find a compromise between too much dynamic scheduling (the problem on out-of-order RISCs) and too much static scheduling (the problem on VLIWs) < 1457057775 575526 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the complexity spirals out of control < 1457057961 632322 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night all! < 1457057980 47061 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: BRANCHING CHICKEN < 1457058179 44727 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it's close enough to a solution that I get all obsessed < 1457058324 691795 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 instruction is something like < 1457058333 418462 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1457058446 14643 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 renames - one for each regfile partition (partition 0 is r0,r4,r8,r12,r16,r20,r24,r28, partition 1 is r1,5,9,13,17,21,25,29, partition 2 is r2,6,10,14,18,22,26,30, partition 3 is r3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31). each of the 4 renames can also be replaced by a nop. < 1457058543 796363 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 writebacks. each writeback must use one of the 4 renames. also, you have a flag to indicate the last writeback for each of the 4 regfile partitions (the one that gets written to the regfile for real) < 1457058811 609041 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 microthreads. each microthread contains a block of instructions that gets assigned to one execution unit and executed sequentially. each instruction is in the form of [alu op][reg x][reg y/immediate], with the result written to the accumulator and optionally written to a regfile register(corresponding to one of the 8 writebacks). each register operand can be either one of the 32 permanent register, the accumulator, or one of the 8 writebac < 1457058884 376771 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1457058947 149043 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 or 8 memory operations(not sure of the limit to set yet) (either loads or stores or nops). the order of memory operations is preserved even though the microthread execution is fully reordered. < 1457058988 829959 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :offset to the next instruction (probably with some forced alignment - maybe 16bytes) < 1457059054 176224 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of the whole thing is that it can be issued in 1 cycle < 1457059058 274048 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in theory < 1457059181 108245 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the register renamer grabs 8 free physical registers, changes up to 4 physical register assignments to architectural registers < 1457059231 779726 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I'm trying to come up with interesting designs for CPUs, implementable or not, if you're curious. < 1457059240 343541 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no entanglement; I guess it's not fully quantum < 1457059275 719035 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does all the renames of every register operand in parallel (which can be done in 1 cycle since the effect of renaming registers within an issued instruction is done beforehand) < 1457059304 601715 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The difficulty with TIS-100 is that you have a limit of 15 instructions/node < 1457059305 497636 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm obsessed with making it implementable too < 1457059364 404599 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's logical to have limitations (except that labels count as lines, which is bullshit), but 15 lines is a little too small (also, 15 isn't a power of 2) < 1457059372 682859 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Fair enough < 1457059793 685222 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance this sample resampling loop comes down to 2 instructions: < 1457059804 348476 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::loop < 1457059804 481962 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shr ph 16, lds [sb + ac*2] -> d0 < 1457059804 482039 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add ph $10000, shr 16, lds [sb + ac*2] -> d1 < 1457059804 482059 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ph $ffff -> d2 < 1457059804 482080 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lds [bu] -> d3 < 1457059805 313015 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub d1 d0, mul d2, sar 16, add d0 -> d0, mul vl, sar 16, add d3, st [bu] < 1457059805 446266 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lds [bu+4] -> d3 < 1457059806 317930 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mul d0 vr, sar 16, add d3, st [bu+4] < 1457059808 378775 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  < 1457059813 651761 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add vl rl -> vl < 1457059813 784940 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add vr rr -> vr < 1457059813 785026 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add ph fr -> ph < 1457059813 785081 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add bu 4 -> bu, cmp be, jz loop < 1457059974 163533 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first instruction has 7 microthreads, 6 writebacks (-> d0, -> d1, -> d2, -> d3, -> d0, -> d3), 4 renames (d0 d1 d2 d3), 6 load/store operations (lds [sb + ac*2], lds [sb + ac*2], ld [bu], st [bu], ld [bu+4], st [bu+4]) < 1457060026 448784 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :second instruction has 4 microthreads, 4 writebacks (-> vl, -> vr, -> ph, -> bu), 4 renames (vl vr ph bu) < 1457060044 528902 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that vl, vr, ph and bu are in different regfile partitions < 1457060261 407646 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that the subinstructions take 2-4 bytes each, the first instruction takes somewhere between 40-80 bytes, second one about 12-24 bytes < 1457060299 880618 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably to keep it busy you'd need an instruction cache at least 32 bytes wide < 1457060358 992016 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if stars align in theory it can run the whole loop in 2 cycles per iteration < 1457060474 147096 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a possible design is that the subinstructions go in normal instruction cache, and the renaming info that tells how to run it in parallel is generated on the fly and stored in a trace cache < 1457060505 372874 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on first iteration it runs at like 1 instruction per cycle and analyzes the instruction sequence for how to parallelize it < 1457060532 924873 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stores that in a trace cache so that next iteration is super parallelized < 1457060675 43232 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably need a really wide data cache to run that fast too < 1457060703 596265 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the kind of monstruously complex banked data cache that does 2 loads + 1 store per cycle you find on modern CPUs < 1457060821 834020 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory it doesn't need 2 register file ports per execution unit either, but I'm not sure how to ration that intelligently < 1457060839 715275 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some instructions need 2 ports, some need 1, some need 0 < 1457060918 380061 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it has the weakness that the register renamer needs to know which execution unit will get which writeback (because they actually are separate register files for each execution units, read ports are shared but write ports aren't) < 1457061007 364656 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah the whole thing works in theory but in practice is overly complex and probably needs to be cut down < 1457061023 655923 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's probably not well balanced < 1457061150 252493 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457061190 126066 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wiki Game Theory < 1457061190 259340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Game_Theory < 1457061197 779218 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1457061221 932788 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping that would lead to wikipedia, but in retrospect that seems silly < 1457061231 653476 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory you could make a VLIW version of the above but I think it would be very hard to properly static schedule < 1457061240 971030 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: OLIW is better than VLIW < 1457061242 534169 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would probably stall way too easily < 1457061243 126273 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wikipedia Game Theory < 1457061243 259899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1457061246 613060 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's OLIW? < 1457061249 320632 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wiki Game Theory < 1457061252 481706 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wiki: not found < 1457061257 365450 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Obscenely Long Instruction Word < 1457061268 818773 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it better < 1457061281 700875 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from burning through instruction cache faster < 1457061283 287151 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I just like it more < 1457061298 714275 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: OLIW has instruction sets within instruction sets < 1457061305 485714 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/wz3WwSbF is an example of an OLIW architecture < 1457061306 295683 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the cpu I described above is a pretty good candidate for OLIW :D < 1457061337 388474 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :64byte instruction words aren't for the faint of hearth < 1457061460 913879 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Mine maxes out at 2752577 bytes per instruction word < 1457061471 371015 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Instruction sets within instruction sets < 1457061487 28818 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Every instruction word is executed concurrently) < 1457061499 667926 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that electrically possible < 1457061505 990872 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Instruction word" doesn't really apply at this point though; it's more of an instruction paragraph) < 1457061516 839241 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Electrically possible? No. < 1457061523 213328 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Not on normal machines < 1457061546 439270 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It doesn't /have/ to be 2752577 bytes. < 1457061605 251499 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I mean, it might be implementable on hardware, because it doesn't use all 2752577 bytes at a time < 1457061624 34554 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, does it have latency causing characteristics? < 1457061647 175149 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Probably < 1457061674 550729 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It has properties like instruction words having length headers < 1457061686 654014 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Which probably causes a shitton of latency < 1457061721 885600 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Did you /want/ something with the word "Obscenely" in it to be practical? < 1457061799 424565 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a hard time figuring out what all those fields mean < 1457061823 639339 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Would you like an explanation? < 1457061834 581988 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll be stuck here for a while < 1457061846 505044 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you can't make it short < 1457061856 716200 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I can try < 1457061873 297207 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it has 0..65535 conditions < 1457061878 36959 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Yes < 1457061895 319538 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the condition group thing < 1457061896 843452 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Instructions are basically a long list of normal ALU instructions (something you might find in a real machine) enclosed in a giant WHILE loop < 1457061921 846938 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: The condition is a series of instructions from a separate instruction set within the main one < 1457061949 764303 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: The condition is divided into groups, and the while loop- when checked- terminates when /all/ conditions are true in /any/ of the groups < 1457061953 87633 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was easy < 1457062029 693132 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the condition instruction arguments and why are they *8 < 1457062062 376352 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Condition instruction arguments are the things the condition checks! < 1457062091 45184 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're *8 because I didn't understand ISAs at the time, but each argument is 8 bytes that references a memory location < 1457062122 105427 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an absolute address or it's coming from some calculation? < 1457062164 661055 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I'm not a pro with ISAs. I don't even know for certain what that question means. < 1457062170 570784 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, if my guess as to what it means is correct < 1457062188 579151 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they like 64bit memory addresses? < 1457062193 572551 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Yes < 1457062199 296005 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter really, it depends on the exact design < 1457062204 491056 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1457062209 25949 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just an outline, not an in-depth spec < 1457062221 771616 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the body flags < 1457062227 617282 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I'm still trying to remember < 1457062237 805430 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with start and term arguments < 1457062274 92469 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does it store the results? < 1457062298 17321 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457062298 977249 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: An accumulator < 1457062301 659795 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: IIRC < 1457062328 87220 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made this a month or two ago (while talking to you, IIRC), and didn't kept detailed notes < 1457062334 777232 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457062340 825327 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you like, I can make a better one with detailed documentation < 1457062351 706472 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I guess I've had my fill < 1457062356 125201 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457062368 288938 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might make another one anyway just for fun < 1457062371 11264 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it does have obscenely large instructions < 1457062374 123489 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's about it < 1457062390 224231 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Yep, that's the point ;) < 1457062408 440920 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Also, compiling to it (or even programming in its ASM) is completely different < 1457062434 592170 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It includes nonnesting WHILE loops as a primitive rather than JMPs, which makes it very different < 1457062454 963150 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that every instruction loads tons of stuff from memory it's not like compilation can be efficient anyways < 1457062476 699971 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Correct. < 1457062494 254638 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It's an esolang, really, or at least an outline for it < 1457062519 45759 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more an esolang than a cpu ues < 1457062520 295104 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457062633 937904 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It's an EsoCPU < 1457062655 857095 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is implementable on hardware conceivably, just not efficiently or in small space < 1457062692 158523 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1457062702 65881 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement a MIPS that runs an emulator :D < 1457062888 510533 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can get the emulator to do a memory load per cycle it's not even slower than the real thing < 1457063040 6244 :feliks!~feliks@unaffiliated/feliks JOIN :#esoteric < 1457063315 441642 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457063373 960777 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-40-115.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457063584 450757 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457063706 22622 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457063885 277162 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... oh god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk3qkQROb_k < 1457064826 377270 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1] : that's... wrong < 1457064860 521108 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Agreed < 1457064889 134893 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It must be so hard for people who program in java to make funny comments written in code... < 1457065432 39166 :heroux!~heroux@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rhhwzqcjhxkntnmu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457065468 528787 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-etecoebqouphthmg JOIN :#esoteric < 1457065661 207454 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457066003 990446 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457066032 928335 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457066206 225784 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457066273 244915 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457066310 218828 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-190-108.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457066592 479088 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a good scripting language with no garbage collector (and possibly no dynamic typing) ? < 1457066674 440993 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl? < 1457066681 289034 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking because at work we do VST plugins at it would be nice to have a scripting language for doing stuff like envelopes and lfos and modulations and custom arpeggiators but the standard options like LUA can't be used because of the really short latency constraints < 1457066702 907860 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl's even meant to be embedded. < 1457066716 734423 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual memory management in scripting? < 1457066739 704241 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe what you need to *control* over the gc < 1457066763 125184 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC would need absolutely no "stop the world" < 1457066772 566182 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even 1ms < 1457066805 58903 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457066808 860845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, GC that doesn't need to stop the world? < 1457066810 111006 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically there generally can't be any memory allocation/freeing on the audio thread generally < 1457066812 44482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop the presses! < 1457066890 589183 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if it allocates memory as part of how it calculates stuff (like writing array values in a lot of script languages) then it can't work < 1457066934 32390 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're gonna have a hard time then. < 1457066960 120274 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: You know, x^∞ = ∞*sin(x) < 1457066975 540874 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyone want me to go to ##math and say that?) < 1457066976 249358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A small kind of Forth may be done? < 1457066987 229272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you had fund learning about the intricacies of HotSpot GCs? < 1457066989 428223 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Hi! Do you want to make an ASM game? < 1457066996 626420 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Or provide input? < 1457066999 812062 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not personally. < 1457067011 541781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about fun? < 1457067011 921991 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : guess it could work out in theory < 1457067021 267596 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1457067039 757693 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Though I predict it'll come up. < 1457067056 509202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Well, you could ask me question if you have any, I suppose (but I am not guaranteed to know the answer) < 1457067066 343011 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK < 1457067072 816818 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in tcl feature list: "All data types can be manipulated as strings, including source code. Internally, variables have types like integer and double, but converting is purely automatic." < 1457067089 36585 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: So weak typing? < 1457067091 49440 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exactly the kind of features that I want it to NOT have < 1457067102 856644 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no freaking dynamic typing < 1457067105 619242 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... You don't want a scripting language. < 1457067110 5154 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I recommend Forth? < 1457067110 557454 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: With Forth generally you preallocate so you can avoid these problems. < 1457067114 967943 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: No, this's weak typing < 1457067137 145787 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes that is what I would think, too < 1457067137 318448 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hm... < 1457067161 624719 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Dynamic typing is when you can change the type of a variable (something that was once a string can now be an int) in an unregulated fashion (it isn't just retyping) < 1457067173 541997 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Static typing is what C has, where variables MUST NOT CHANGE TYPE EVER < 1457067186 247062 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Strong typing is where conversions aren't done automatically < 1457067191 845264 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yup. It's basically the perfect language for this problem domain: small embeddable language with easily measurable and consistent performance characteristics. < 1457067192 737147 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C variables simply cannot change type < 1457067238 940874 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: And weak typing- what TCL apparently has- is where values change type based on what's needed ("I know you just tried to add an int to a string, which doesn't make sense, but let's just pretend the int is a string too") < 1457067280 604374 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Tcl's semantics (it's not an acronym BTW) are more that all values are strings. < 1457067295 871153 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C a variable has a type which is declared and isn't changed; in JavaScript a variable doesn't have a type, a value has a type and any value can be stored in any variable. < 1457067307 348930 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOOL COMMAND LANGUAGE < 1457067323 561600 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually written Tcl < 1457067324 564659 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So it's stupid perl typing? < 1457067330 312900 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also known as BF typing < 1457067352 679891 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't perl typing like javascript typing except it doesn't have integers? < 1457067360 259345 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or numbers that aren't strings < 1457067360 392640 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Perl does not have stringly typed semantics, at all. < 1457067435 963149 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... In Tcl, an implementation which literally stored everything as actual char* strings would be perfectly reasonable (if a little inefficient). < 1457067521 16027 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :irl I need about 2 variable types < 1457067522 859891 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :float < 1457067526 556497 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and array of float < 1457067584 897509 :deltab!~deltab@cpc1-smal2-0-0-cust155.19-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you need a shader language < 1457067600 556460 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shader languages share some characteristics yes < 1457067606 693611 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though they don't allow feedback < 1457067669 124260 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one language of this type in the wild is jesusonic < 1457067679 883090 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kindof rough < 1457067708 200482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can just make a simple Forth implementation and use that. < 1457067721 210212 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1457067764 356224 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if I can convince potential users to live with forth's weird syntax ;) < 1457067854 499637 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although different from other programming languages, I think it is reasonable for what it does. < 1457068319 921845 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457068681 374498 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457068816 590911 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457069268 202790 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me if this document is good: https://www.npmjs.com/package/remote-xlib < 1457069296 322710 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can plesae complain about what is wrong with it, so that I can fix it please. < 1457069602 620894 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457069795 176314 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example program is http://sprunge.us/ZMdg < 1457069911 967097 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you click inside of the window then it makes a pie chart centered at the clicked position. < 1457070071 598979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tell me feature request too) < 1457070737 926148 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457071292 147838 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38! < 1457071356 864841 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, what do you want please? < 1457071435 555802 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want anything < 1457071494 704069 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457071502 422757 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you know answer of my question? < 1457071546 962742 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean my other question before you join) < 1457072702 237494 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how am I supposed to know? < 1457072722 405262 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what was your question? < 1457072785 255246 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can know by the log, but I can repeat it anyways < 1457072814 41802 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me if this document is good: https://www.npmjs.com/package/remote-xlib You can plesae complain about what is wrong with it, so that I can fix it please. Also you can make comment about feature request, and other comment/complaint/question too < 1457072851 16425 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1457072988 98828 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: where is the log? < 1457073054 730660 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC log is mentioned in the topic message it is http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ but anyways I already repeated my question so that you do not have to < 1457073124 961576 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457073166 173146 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah, topic, I always forget to look there < 1457073189 21387 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client requires that I click a few things to get to the topic < 1457073242 866361 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you looking for HTML validation or English grammar? < 1457073295 572012 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither (I didn't write the HTML of the webpage anyways); I mean about if the document is clear, if it is sensible, etc < 1457073343 661433 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah, so English grammar < 1457073424 184304 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if something is missing, too. < 1457073460 510896 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't specify correctly how to use the program, or if perhaps some part of the program is wrong or is missing, that is what I mean too. < 1457073489 361893 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "documentations assume" => "documentation assumes" < 1457073510 791828 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1457073522 141571 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "These documentations assume" => "This documentation assumes" < 1457073576 871813 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457073628 821352 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, the relationship between ASCII and 16-bit characters are unclear, < 1457073631 271538 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I fixed that, although I wasn't really asking about grammar anyways, but rather about errors such as in case it is not possible to understand the operation of this program for example, or if some function you think is important, but is actually missing, etc < 1457073639 642716 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Text ... is treated as 16-bit characters" implies Unicode < 1457073650 136306 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Do you know JavaScript? < 1457073650 856589 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you contradict that with ASCII, what exactly do you mean? < 1457073651 921047 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457073655 945336 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I do < 1457073702 923847 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In JavaScript, a string contains 16-bit characters (which is normally interpreted as UTF-16, and the fromCodePoint and codePointAt do so, although it doesn't have to be) < 1457073729 232530 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "using the encoding of the font"; doesn't that make it clear though? < 1457073733 383050 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, so is there a bug in your conversion between JS and Xlib? < 1457073748 186024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No there is not a bug, it is correct. < 1457073749 677353 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fonts can be unicode, what's the issue? < 1457073771 393425 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so it's a bug in font-config? < 1457073773 74104 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if the font is Unicode, then the characters are Unicode. Maybe I should add a sentence to mention that? < 1457073783 926268 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: No it is not a bug in font-config either. < 1457073788 877104 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why can't you use unicode characters? < 1457073797 509584 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why are you forcing your users to use ASCII? < 1457073820 224233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use Unicode, if you are displaying text of a Unicode font. < 1457073829 905341 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's not what your documentation says < 1457073842 494482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, perhaps I should clarify that. < 1457073889 81500 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I fixed that. (That webpage won't update with all of my fixes now, since I work the changes on my own computer locally) < 1457073924 366747 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the end of that paragraph, I added a sentence that says "If the font encoding is Unicode, then the string is also interpreted as Unicode." Does that make it clear? < 1457073932 948205 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457073958 846305 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457074005 493634 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest seems pretty clear, but then again, I love hierarchies < 1457074041 601598 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my only recommendation would be to group them into tasks/topics < 1457074104 981289 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it by alphabetical with uppercase first, within each block I put first properties of the constructor, and then properties of the instance, and then events. I can add a index with tasks/topics too I suppose, if I can figure out how it should be grouped as. < 1457074122 534776 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes that would cross-cut the class-oriented hierarchy, so I'm not sure if it would make sense in this case < 1457074145 944797 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know that JS doesn't have classes < 1457074146 128315 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know that the documentation for X.Drawable.prototype.drawMacro is incomplete. (I will fix this later.) < 1457074252 381458 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457074393 530472 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457074701 256705 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1457074958 542624 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457075035 62813 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457075091 431988 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457076998 264936 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457077524 375739 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457078164 309289 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457078638 17687 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-168.reshall.wwu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457078690 490864 :infinitymaster!~infinitym@c-67-201-229-168.reshall.wwu.edu QUIT :Client Quit < 1457078902 925045 :7YUAAGGC0!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457080291 10894 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457080533 175366 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457080824 741964 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457080878 602238 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it causes a kernel panic or other problems when trying to print, possibly there is a problem relating to powersave mode of the printer? < 1457081123 996923 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457081170 741332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or maybe the kernel need to be upgraded?) < 1457082562 670351 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457082847 663273 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457083206 713158 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejr126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457083849 974870 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457083974 926022 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457084023 909176 :impomatic_!~digital_w@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457084977 656382 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-etecoebqouphthmg QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457085585 651965 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457085748 449820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457086574 502765 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ejnxjvarmofynexr JOIN :#esoteric < 1457087782 662607 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejr126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457088720 513985 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnurd < 1457090856 655681 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457091858 730793 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1457091873 975998 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arothmorphise/arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry. < 1457093234 304534 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? misgivings < 1457093238 191035 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :misgivings? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457093388 140658 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: ANSWER CHICKEN < 1457093407 928607 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457093677 916924 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457095097 382660 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgehvlokoljrzlln JOIN :#esoteric < 1457095363 247030 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457096920 969880 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457096966 666081 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457097073 904448 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-190-108.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1457097077 213967 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de NICK :Melvar < 1457098969 244951 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457098991 280242 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/paste < 1457098998 218026 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists. \ then \ true \ else \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat -- "${1--}" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ fi < 1457099015 946455 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/url < 1457099016 585691 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ else: \ < 1457099120 22437 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/url < 1457099120 888717 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url < 1457099256 797919 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 NICK :sid123 < 1457099271 741127 :sid123!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 NICK :bender| < 1457099297 826268 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url test.hg/ < 1457099298 613641 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/test.hg < 1457099324 148504 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it only matches at beginning < 1457099360 199294 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/url < 1457099363 442615 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett tswett oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan elliott ais523 ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia < 1457099411 187111 :impomatic_!~digital_w@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are people still playing BF Joust? I notice the strategy page hasn't had anything new added for almost a year. < 1457099425 189050 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, i was the one who wrote that part. < 1457099441 147168 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic_: not very often afair < 1457099458 667615 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess people haven't had any new ideas to try < 1457099468 141843 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, none that won. < 1457099631 225499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic_: I go back and top the leaderboard every now and again, but it's been deadish for a while < 1457099664 40707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic_: if you haven't seen growth2 yet, I'd recommend watching it, I really like the strategy < 1457099689 757482 :Mikaos!~user@213.149.61.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457099689 930518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:05, 31 May 2015‎ Ais523 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (97,150 bytes) (+3,004)‎ . . (→‎2015: because we couldn't go a year without a new hill-topper) < 1457099706 976392 :Mikaos!~user@213.149.61.145 PART :#esoteric < 1457099707 132716 :impomatic_!~digital_w@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will do after work :-) < 1457099720 317611 :spiette!~spiette@modemcable199.41-161-184.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457099770 572587 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seems like you need to get a new one soon >:) < 1457099777 151184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1457099922 569415 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is my tooth actually getting a bit better again < 1457100219 760874 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457100548 213234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of BF Joust hill-topping, I really want to get margins to work < 1457100555 43435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every time I try to change it I break it < 1457100563 953498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should start from scratch using the same strategy < 1457100954 999356 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has to stop clicking on giant reverts and nitia in the repository browser
< 1457101061 208027 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457101309 514285 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] @wikipedia Game Theory <-- tip 1: @google tip 2: wikipedia wouldn't capitalize "theory". < 1457101309 647362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457101331 398364 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google Game Theory < 1457101332 530587 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory < 1457101386 207055 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457101395 261818 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unknown command, try @list <-- . o O ( Unknown command, try `list ) < 1457101465 611759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, now I'm working on stealth3 :-) < 1457101557 684973 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1457101769 449035 :spiette!~spiette@modemcable199.41-161-184.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457101978 325610 :spiette!~spiette@72-53-140-195.cpe.distributel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457103853 26977 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457104125 999827 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457105109 666160 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejr126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457105835 633963 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457105972 830991 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1457106488 568004 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457106564 445758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457106606 234098 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@140.193.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457106694 672934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457106752 707089 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejr126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457107134 852300 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@140.193.119.147 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457107202 964304 :XorSwap!XorSwap@wifi-wpa-cw2-140-193-119-147.wifi.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457107547 243277 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457107808 199629 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.26 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1457108212 426150 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? loop < 1457108225 730308 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop: see loop < 1457108270 624177 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a loop is an automorphism in the groupoid of paths < 1457108317 419902 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457108371 923745 :XorSwap!XorSwap@wifi-wpa-cw2-140-193-119-147.wifi.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457108401 861680 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category of paths- it's not always a groupoid < 1457108417 341703 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's almost never a groupoid. It doesn't always have inverses < 1457108422 446277 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46492&oldid=45087 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+25) 10/* Power Series */ wolfram alpha says so < 1457108563 857082 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1457108634 325547 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sounds a bit vague for wolfram alpha < 1457108648 19023 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457108704 357409 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46494&oldid=46492 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+60) 10/* Power Series */ wolfram alpha says so < 1457108713 548338 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is learning what a homotopy is
< 1457108918 667966 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lecturer is being very handwavey < 1457108927 496524 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Continuous functions form a space!" < 1457109021 653354 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457109047 50005 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1457109137 322216 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's also pronouncing homotopy in a different way to what I had assumed < 1457109152 768407 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was putting the stress on the second and forth syllables, with all short os < 1457109166 697328 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's putting the stress on the first and third syllables, and having the first two os long < 1457109545 412738 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumed as Taneb.
< 1457109626 912750 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiktionary unhelpful < 1457109642 58500 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looking at the greek roots, they use omicrons rather than omegas < 1457109653 750333 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence short os < 1457109674 236795 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that actually matter to english < 1457109711 800675 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it's at least a point of data < 1457109723 431691 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I pronounce "finite" with short is < 1457109726 346250 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm google translate has them long < 1457109800 378639 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :OED gives it as /ˈhɒməʊtɒpi/ or /həˈmɒtəpi/ < 1457109800 550412 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/lhj6r/how_do_you_pronounce_homotopy/c2svi40 hth < 1457109820 139339 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1457109948 275125 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457109967 280097 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Push the shell. Climb the shell. < 1457109967 526099 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have the masamune! < 1457109995 804743 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJRyeUDfthk < 1457110033 80473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I heard it takes immense concentration, not immense evil... < 1457110033 261957 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: like, thanks princess. i'll take that under advisement!! < 1457110041 967662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's such an uppity bot. < 1457110054 356673 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what style is it? < 1457110058 882569 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1457110059 52313 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1457110060 754132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1457110060 950788 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1457110073 363650 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a serious one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nw1uIpZ9io < 1457110077 72018 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1457110077 216955 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! well, remember that you can log in anywhere on the world map! need a brief weapons and items seminar? < 1457110227 998278 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Yes, please. Give us a seminar on weapons and items. < 1457110228 202647 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... < 1457110241 696739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Oh, if it costs that much, never mind then. < 1457110241 830092 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the masamune!! stole a tonic! amazing! you found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1457110251 770562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very excitable style. < 1457110269 539344 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1457110447 994033 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1457110913 957414 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/oswg-member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457111059 243994 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457111330 792718 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgehvlokoljrzlln QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1457111349 241646 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1457111532 788946 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejr126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457111852 128616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1457112515 219962 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1316.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457112583 539893 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1316.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457112596 195433 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1316.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457113043 740148 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1316.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457114387 258725 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid framework tries to be overly general but doesn't actually do the simple things right. < 1457114440 106240 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, which framework < 1457114459 142161 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff at $WORK < 1457114467 195664 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaah < 1457114476 909535 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has layers of abstractions < 1457114486 517650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the bottom it sometimes does the correct thing, sometimes doesn't < 1457114518 787461 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can never tell which because you can't follow the source code to the end < 1457114736 318912 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457114985 316024 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457115198 25162 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457115225 604309 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, apparently that kind of thing is really common in a lot of industries < 1457115230 947412 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially banking? < 1457115354 383602 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1457115355 912684 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1457115360 144344 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :occult wizards of the digital age < 1457115401 644111 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1457115893 8569 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457116571 322579 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1457116675 204350 :treaki!~treaki@p54BF251B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457116803 574070 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457116846 720989 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whats new < 1457118112 805117 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457118258 695418 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome < 1457118260 118734 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome < 1457118267 367411 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​07Welcome 08to 09the 02international 06hub 13for 04esoteric 07programming 08language 09design 02and 06deployment! 13For 04more 07information, 08check 09out 02our 06wiki: 13. 04(For 07the 08other 09kind 02of 06esoterica, 13try 04#esoteric 07on 08EFnet 09or 02DALnet.) < 1457118268 615252 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06Welcome 13to 04the 07international 08hub 09for 02esoteric 06programming 13language 04design 07and 08deployment! 09For 02more 06information, 13check 04out 07our 08wiki: 09. 02(For 06the 13other 04kind 07of 08esoterica, 09try 02#esoteric 06on 13EFnet 04or 07DALnet.) < 1457118337 668699 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457118513 449369 :nikylom!570324a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.3.36.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457118641 798880 :nikylom!570324a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.3.36.167 QUIT :Client Quit < 1457118668 433621 :nikylog!570324a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.3.36.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457118976 58022 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome vanila < 1457118977 397363 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08vanila: 09Welcome 02to 06the 13international 04hub 07for 08esoteric 09programming 02language 06design 13and 04deployment! 07For 08more 09information, 02check 06out 13our 04wiki: 07. 08(For 09the 02other 06kind 13of 04esoterica, 07try 08#esoteric 09on 02EFnet 06or 13DALnet.) < 1457119134 921895 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Piet++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46495&oldid=42982 5* 03202.171.164.185 5* (+25) 10 < 1457119174 675095 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457119671 49245 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1457119695 247928 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1457119924 858186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to make Bezier line with Xlib? < 1457120697 556229 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1457120889 733488 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think Xlib can do that < 1457120922 693844 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: not builtin, maybe, but you can make it do it < 1457120972 410543 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: wolframalpha gave me exact values for several different choices of x. They are ugly irrational numbers. < 1457120977 922955 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could look at cairo for inspiration < 1457121026 775510 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a document that says that by use of X10 codes in X11 it is possible to make spline, but does not describe very well how spline is made < 1457121191 280476 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like this is a clock that draws the hands with a Bezier curve: ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/linux/sunsite/X11/clocks/bclock-1.0.tar.gz < 1457121196 470070 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457121206 182327 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the relevant code is in transform.c < 1457121209 957466 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457121223 585261 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look < 1457121275 934897 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457121551 259682 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ejnxjvarmofynexr QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457121571 290693 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457121572 550228 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you mean degree 2 spline, then pull in the cairo library, which can draw bezier stuff, and use its X11 backend. < 1457121578 15956 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1457121581 597299 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean degree 3 spline < 1457121586 429767 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :degree 2 is parabola < 1457121594 569480 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cairo supports cubic (degree 3) too < 1457121690 688888 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Xlib can also do spline by including but it does not describe very well what spline algorithms are used and how to control it. < 1457121705 293641 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pajnlwhpcoaixhvt JOIN :#esoteric < 1457121890 405091 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in that case, check cairo if it uses those functions of Xlib (it might not, if they're not general enough). < 1457121923 777332 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejr126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457122116 987223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does tar have a large number of worthless options as well as a few useful ones, some of which can only be written as long option and short option won't work? < 1457122152 238702 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: history. < 1457122220 613790 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and yes, --no-recurse should really have a short version < 1457122225 551519 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457122249 837417 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar is bad < 1457122266 375500 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes if your file looks like a link it will try to open a network connection < 1457122278 952526 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If all of the worthless options were to be removed, then all of the remaining long options could be changed to short options. < 1457122294 988610 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah someone should just clean slate rewrite tar < 1457122299 895332 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it shouldn't support compression < 1457122308 900165 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it the "unix way" < 1457122328 969039 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what I wish for is a program with 7z's backend and capabilities, but a sane front-end with reasonable unixish command-line syntax and output. < 1457122355 105542 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a program that unzips any archive format < 1457122366 864466 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just go: un thing.whatever < 1457122377 762343 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: that's exactly what 7z is trying to do, unzips any archive format if you say 7z x somearchive < 1457122381 113680 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has modules that describe each unix program to decompress < 1457122402 85940 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made it careful not to splay files everywhere < 1457122409 55370 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree you should use a separate program for compression instead. For example "zcat < program.tar.gz | tar t" or whatever (that already works though) < 1457122411 804483 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always puts them inside a folder (unless the zip itself was a single item) < 1457122414 589493 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it in lisp and use it all the time < 1457122444 970545 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's abit imperfect though because every program is different and moste are not built to be used programatically(!) < 1457122451 123548 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being command line unix programs < 1457122451 799211 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always list the archive first before extracting it so that I will know what directory structure it needs. < 1457122457 15502 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a bit funny < 1457122475 220480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or in case I do not need all of the files from the archive) < 1457122493 967436 :XorSwap!XorSwap@140.193.237.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457122514 580549 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Hamster archive is a better format. Hamster archive is consist of zero or more lumps, where each lump consists of the null-terminated filename, the 32-bit length in PDP-endian format, and then the data. < 1457122553 150478 :XorSwap!XorSwap@140.193.237.56 QUIT :Client Quit < 1457122567 213746 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( so how do you deal with messages that are larger than 4GB? ) < 1457122604 472442 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or files. < 1457122626 409268 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :4GB is a problem < 1457122632 500123 :nikylog!570324a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.3.36.167 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1457122638 256958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could just add more than one with the same name if you really need to < 1457122665 846201 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you like PDP-endian? < 1457122690 135481 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, but that is how it was defined (I don't know why, but I can guess). < 1457122692 862271 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: separate program for compressing is what I do right now: tar -c "${lots_of_ugly_options[@]}" | 7z a "$outputpath/$basename.t7z" -t7z -mx=3 -si"$basename.tar" < 1457122716 911371 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :separate program is also what tar does of course < 1457122737 387207 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it automatically invokes the right separate program for decompressing gzip, bzip, xz, and a few more < 1457122761 289125 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is definitely the Right Thing for it to do < 1457122775 181208 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :another problem is unrar is not free < 1457122781 511488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-Zip will already do both archiving and compression though, due to the 7-Zip file format in use. < 1457122805 736828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't, I think you should use pipe to tell to decompress instead < 1457122847 977084 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason Hamster archive uses PDP-endian is for historical reasons and is not up to me. < 1457122867 681269 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 7-zip does archiving, but you can't use that if you want to save unix filesystem attributes (owner, group, and permission bits most importantly), which is important for a system backup < 1457122875 449682 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I used tar this way for backups < 1457122886 587162 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for just distributing a tarball of some program, 7z without tar is fine of course < 1457122922 710507 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I suppose that can be also a reason < 1457123003 922199 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 7z can create or extract tar files (and many other formats), but since its command line utility is even worse to use than tar, I never tried to create tar with it (I did create zip with it though) < 1457123058 844762 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The backend of 7z and how many formats it supports (not all archive formats either) is great, as well as its specific 7z format, and its windows gui. It's only the command-line tool I don't like. < 1457123077 347643 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try to nudge its source code a bit some time to make it a bit saner. < 1457123131 693563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is one advantage of 7z, that you can support many different format; it has successfully opened some files I downloaded that were in unusual formats and it worked fine. < 1457123140 613436 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: exactly < 1457123156 664834 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use 7z a lot for this reason < 1457123162 695733 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use it a lot to create 7z archives < 1457123238 940957 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1316.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457123250 200768 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of other tools that try to support multiple archives of course: bzip2 can decompress gzip; xz can decompress gzip, bzip2, lzma; the rar program can decompress zip and I think it can even compress it; norton commander has a built-in zip decompressor; and there are even a few tools that try to handle any archive by calling other specific programs. < 1457123257 300228 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, 7-Zip does compress pretty well < 1457123323 450275 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that some of the files I have successfully opened with 7-Zip are not even documented in the document of 7-Zip. < 1457123337 908273 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I've never seen 7-zip crash, neither the gui nor the command-line, and that's a big plus. < 1457123344 210783 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe they are now, but at that time they weren't) < 1457123365 245969 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes that too, although I have not used the GUI of 7-Zip < 1457123390 317019 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the gui is quite good, and is designed better than the command line. it's not perfect, but quite good. < 1457123435 877368 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably is good, although I still prefer to work by command-line < 1457123452 784395 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use both, depending on the task. < 1457123464 239470 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the command line can be automated, which I have done at least once. < 1457123536 186967 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't support Hamster archive, but I have written my own program for Hamster archive anyways (other programs exist, but they aren't very good, and also they require DOS) < 1457123559 503763 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I don't understand is why some people like the horrible trialware winrar program, when 7-zip has been available for quite a while and does basically anything winrar can do but better, except for compressing rar archives. < 1457123571 120251 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The full version of 7-zip does decompress rar archives.) < 1457123586 298836 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a hamster archive? < 1457123599 969351 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I described it above. It is: Hamster archive is consist of zero or more lumps, where each lump consists of the null-terminated filename, the 32-bit length in PDP-endian format, and then the data. < 1457123610 626925 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion 7z should handle 7z only < 1457123622 181229 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there should be a separate multi-archiver program to 'combine' < 1457123622 449486 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the entire document, now you can even make your own implementation if you want to < 1457123636 926893 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, PDP lol < 1457123672 396818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what are Hamster archives used for? < 1457123685 40225 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: I know PDP-endian isn't as good, but that is what it is and I do not quite know why. < 1457123695 439169 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP-endian XB < 1457123701 187762 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the silliest endian < 1457123715 455521 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I agree it is the silliest endian < 1457123722 244004 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to look up documentation on the format, and most of what I find is codu logs of zzo talking about it :D < 1457123730 27117 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is pdp endian one of those mixed-endian formats, in which the int16 level endian is opposite to the int32 level endianness? < 1457123739 430433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1457123740 738827 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevertheless it can be implemented easily enough, as can the better formats such as big-endian and small-endian < 1457123762 556920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1457123770 821070 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an archive format like this it's fine < 1457123793 572822 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Other documentation does not name the format anything, which makes it difficult to find, although I wrote the entire document right here anyways; it is one sentence. < 1457123807 80442 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like some sort of tar format basically < 1457123902 134165 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combine archives simply by "cat" program or by using the >> redirection operator. < 1457123921 110490 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, I think tar formats can do that too < 1457123934 871013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so can tar.gz < 1457123961 125338 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know gzip supports that too < 1457123986 41459 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejr126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457123995 987622 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Your font is making me depressingly aware of how often people use nonbreaking spaces for evil :| < 1457124024 181274 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the t in tar stands for tape, as in, you can append new files to a tar file on a magnetic tape without reading it < 1457124046 93932 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Also with s/nonbreaking spaces/Unicode/ too isn't it? < 1457124110 676059 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little bit, yeah. Nonbreaking spaces are *everywhere*, though :| < 1457124183 704865 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonbreaking spaces are certainly not limited to Unicode of course though, other formats have nonbreaking spaces too < 1457124215 513939 :katherine!~canaima@200.84.213.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457124218 6856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457124219 251058 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In UTCE all characters are nonbreaking (including the ASCII space) < 1457124273 538250 :katherine!~canaima@200.84.213.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1457124288 859117 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think part of the reason why nonbreaking space got popular is that HTML traditionally couldn't represent multiple adjacent spaces, so when people wanted to show two adjacent spaces of an ascii string in HTML, they replaced one with a non-breaking space for display. < 1457124291 610852 :katherine!~canaima@200.84.213.17 PART :#esoteric < 1457124399 90471 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mainly see it a lot in mailing list archives and GNU docs :D < 1457124420 955877 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I also see lots of tables used for no reason in those places, so :| < 1457124676 310010 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I understand correctly, these days there's a way around this in HTML, namely specifying the CSS property white-space: pre-wrap; which disables HTML's special whitespace handling. < 1457124702 909538 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1457124708 811552 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML merges multiple spaces into one < 1457124714 625951 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so people can indent their XML? < 1457124721 549142 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sooooo horribly ugly and funny < 1457124724 676234 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: yes, it's horrible < 1457124730 423038 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp paste website uses a funny XML indentation style < 1457124742 957084 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :view-source:http://paste.lisp.org/ < 1457124752 826736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: it also sometimes removes a whitespace adjacent to a tag < 1457124761 299563 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of it is texi2html generated stuff, so it's at least kind of understandable < 1457124778 814802 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a great idea: Use s-expressions for web markup < 1457124791 93305 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :top kek, bruv < 1457124800 752216 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1457125263 986181 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pajnlwhpcoaixhvt QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457125410 873682 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zplvfafixaoinknh JOIN :#esoteric < 1457125597 993309 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457125648 136149 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1457126568 271347 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1457126688 912236 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loyalty Theory < 1457126694 636065 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-l < 1457126694 769198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 7h 3m 5s ago: @wikipedia Game Theory <-- tip 1: @google tip 2: wikipedia wouldn't capitalize "theory". < 1457126707 592499 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google Game theory < 1457126708 608670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory < 1457126743 91286 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan I was hoping `@wikipedia game theory` would return the first sentence of the article, because it was funny IIRC < 1457126743 224806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457126743 705551 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google Theory < 1457126745 423363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theory.com/ < 1457126745 556639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Theory Official Site | Contemporary Clothing for Women and Men < 1457126750 564635 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wiki Theory < 1457126750 698247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Theory < 1457126754 963431 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checkmate < 1457126787 638088 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, for that wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory < 1457126823 526027 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: What's the joke in the first few sentences? < 1457126875 799587 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I was wrong, it was a joke I was going to make < 1457126878 960168 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1316.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457126891 217292 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Game theory is \"the study of mathematical models of conflict and cooperation between intelligent rational decision-makers.\"" < 1457126910 84798 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the study of people just in it for revenge and bitterness? < 1457126912 187310 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1457126936 925940 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Game theory is mainly used in ... political science..." < 1457126950 383098 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are the intelligent rational decision-makers in politics? < 1457127009 244979 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :all over the place? < 1457127013 486776 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no, but politicians like to use fancy scientific stuff to try to make their decisions seem rational when they aren't < 1457127046 598231 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: game theory is a great excuse, it sounds sciency enough that they can refer to game theoretical models with fancy solutions < 1457127076 13795 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: So it's quasi-game theory? < 1457127097 768661 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: How often do people yell "IS THIS ALL A GAME TO YOU!?" at game theorists do you reckon? < 1457127130 133612 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I think the latter study is called family law < 1457127182 79923 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Divorce law, in particular, though arguably custody law, as well < 1457127463 13755 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejr126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457127763 981974 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell if a number is prime in a non turing complete language? < 1457127797 854890 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I think you can do it in SQL < 1457127835 560198 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you show it? < 1457127882 624135 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://tsqltricks.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/udf-isprime/ < 1457127913 342080 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's turing complete < 1457127917 611021 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, true < 1457128030 537501 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess even vanilla SQL is turing complete with CTEs and windowing < 1457128031 846324 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes you only need to loop down < 1457128034 727586 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disappointing < 1457128119 473521 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that only supports a loop with a finite number of iterations is not tc, even if that number is unbounded, right? < 1457128234 828154 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you can do it with regex, but I'm not sure if it's only PCRE (which is TC, IIRC) < 1457128268 904506 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :bre is enough < 1457128277 688034 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know if bre is turing complete < 1457128542 380428 :Riviera!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: i don't quite get your question < 1457128572 676074 :Riviera!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: "something" as in "anything?" Most algorithms for checking whether a number is prime aren't turing complete, yet they can do what they do. < 1457128602 410841 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language < 1457128618 980605 :Riviera!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make it any less vague. < 1457128632 183949 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Charity is definitely not Turing Complete, but you could reasonably check for primality with it < 1457128803 374472 :spiette!~spiette@72-53-140-195.cpe.distributel.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457128894 964254 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457129115 969248 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457129231 689905 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457129453 88283 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1457129481 623999 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457129784 106747 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even SQLite is capable of solving Sudoku and computing a mandelbrot set with a single query. < 1457129797 818186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with an empty database) < 1457129986 761130 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add a prime checker to hq9 < 1457130183 90212 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :p: the command p looks at the next available input for the longest consecutive series of digits, and outputs "Prime!" if it is a prime number, or "Not prime!" otherwise (including if it is an empty sequence). Note that the input is not removed from the queue. < 1457130188 697398 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/queue/input buffer/ < 1457130210 29919 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1457130224 848030 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :question can now be answered withn yes, there is such a language < 1457130227 725787 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next! < 1457131244 102813 :augur!~augur@108-60-123-170.static.wiline.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457131990 976312 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457132343 221185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQLite has no regular expression built-in but I made the SQLite extension library to use PCRE with SQLite < 1457132456 486529 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457132566 553079 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1457133020 528977 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a set-theoretical proof assistant? < 1457133032 819921 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit primitive, but workable < 1457133068 173556 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls metamath
< 1457133089 363797 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think "set-theoretical" and "primitive" are about right for that. < 1457133113 796681 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1457133113 930192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1] said 1h 46m 10s ago: I was hoping `@wikipedia game theory` would return the first sentence of the article, because it was funny IIRC < 1457133141 821253 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It turned out I just had a joke to make about it < 1457133178 236804 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hi? < 1457133354 298611 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : holaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa <-- i'm wondering if it's some kind of semester start in venezuela < 1457133365 674275 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all these people showing up at the same time < 1457133674 222280 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457134116 325192 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457134263 33283 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : something that only supports a loop with a finite number of iterations is not tc, even if that number is unbounded, right? <-- right, this is well-known to give you exactly the primitive recursive functions on numbers. see BlooP. < 1457134317 889298 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1457134323 568442 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK < 1457134325 992532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : CYUL 042300Z 04002KT 15SM FEW240 M05/M16 A3023 RMK CI1 CI TR SLP241 \ ENVA 042250Z 00000KT 9999 FEW045 BKN090 01/M03 Q1003 RMK WIND 670FT 09008KT \ ESSB 042320Z AUTO 13007KT 9999 BKN008/// OVC009/// 01/00 Q1008 \ KOAK 042256Z 16008KT 10SM SCT013 BKN025 OVC038 17/16 A2994 RMK AO2 RAE56 P0000 T01720156 < 1457134448 627072 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457134487 164884 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457134490 15062 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes graue once deleted BlooP from our wiki, and wonders wtf he was on.
< 1457134513 842516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : holaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa <-- i'm wondering if it's some kind of semester start in venezuela < 1457134531 797200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :this stuff happens because we're inexplicably on the default channel list on some spanish distro's irc client, right? < 1457134539 141340 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, canaima < 1457134556 231350 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/spanish/venezuelan/, at least originally. < 1457134588 20817 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457134625 202547 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least so i assume, i've never literally seen that channel list or what program it is in. < 1457134651 332650 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i once got some kind of half-confirmation out of one of them < 1457134670 457602 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only half- because i'm not sure they used compatible terminology. < 1457134721 155085 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, my comment above was because we've had 3 or 4 of them in just a few days. < 1457134872 766655 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell izabera something that only supports a loop with a finite number of iterations is not tc, even if that number is unbounded, right? <-- right, this is well-known to give you exactly the primitive recursive functions on numbers. see BlooP. < 1457134872 899941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457135159 367346 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457135515 323153 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1457135551 191500 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instruction for PortAudio says you must terminate it. However if the program won't terminate properly then how to ensure it will stop properly? < 1457136016 488022 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457136023 808604 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a problem of theoretical interest to me < 1457136058 84358 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a number by its prime factorization, calculate the prime factorization of its successor < 1457136070 808417 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea behind it is Esoteric Data Types < 1457136095 474733 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, the PFact number encoding < 1457136097 94326 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy, drop everything you have and start from scratch < 1457136121 180515 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Huh? < 1457136164 169780 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can get the factorization any easier with the factors of the predecessor < 1457136174 563446 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in the general case < 1457136181 173798 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: This isn't for code I'm working on, this is for a humorous data types < 1457136206 808400 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: How about for numbers that can be expressed as the product of 8 prime numbers, all of which must be in the smallest 256 prime numbers? < 1457136207 754738 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1457136231 686382 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wait, no, smallest 255, where 0b00000000 is 1) < 1457136257 703036 :Nithogg!~ethiraric@jrc16-h01-176-150-43-109.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457136272 738312 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: The idea behind the PFact type is that it's a data type that expresses numbers as the product of 8 primes < 1457136299 787102 :Nithogg!~ethiraric@jrc16-h01-176-150-43-109.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1457136300 849378 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, up to 8 < 1457136322 816892 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Assuming 64-bit registers, each number must fall in the 255 smallest primes, with 1 filling in gaps when n<8 < 1457136694 58665 :augur!~augur@50.58.157.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457136880 985481 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1457137128 686760 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457137255 899838 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme find one of those hard-to-factor numbers. < 1457137281 94011 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, the question "given the factorization of n, what is the factorization of n+1?" definitely sounds pretty interesting. < 1457137296 295927 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And here's one thing that you do know: the two numbers cannot have any prime factors in common. < 1457137312 945765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be surprised if you can say anything enormously stronger than that < 1457137334 561813 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because if p is a prime factor of n and p is also a prime factor of n+1, then n/p and (n+1)/p are both integers, so 1/p is an integer. But that's impossible.) < 1457137360 532837 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik the link between the primeness of n and n+2 is still an open problem < 1457137402 643993 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a number that's hard to factor: < 1457137404 487512 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1522605027922533360535618378132637429718068114961380688657908494580122963258952897654000350692006139 < 1457137412 530669 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, at most one of the numbers can _be_ prime hth < 1457137424 409074 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...excepting 2 and 3. < 1457137431 561454 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it's pretty easy to factor it using the Google method. < 1457137439 763937 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let's see what the factorization of its predecessor is. < 1457137464 306621 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 2 and 3 don't have any prime factors in common < 1457137481 107643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than 2.5 < 1457137486 29303 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and this contradicts what i said how? < 1457137497 694335 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1457137501 212738 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the line above that < 1457137502 152649 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1457137515 388517 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I found the factorization. It is: < 1457137541 760270 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 * 3^2 * 210974974123 * 400944086233670527306310281636760087998315351567377660286363410284049027879820778576767 < 1457137557 286127 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2 was easy < 1457137558 583112 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably pretty dang unhelpful. < 1457137564 500197 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1457137588 910104 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: for 100% of all prime numbers p, p-1 has 2 as a factor. < 1457137610 830317 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the factorization of 400944086233670527306310281636760087998315351567377660286363410284049027879820778576766 is... < 1457137612 300185 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 2? < 1457137621 131558 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall there's some restriction on the prime factorization of pq-1 in order for pq to be a good RSA key < 1457137636 311282 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: nope, 2-1 doesn't have 2 as a factor. < 1457137648 56459 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not 100% then < 1457137653 513233 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is. < 1457137658 409182 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly, 400944086233670527306310281636760087998315351567377660286363410284049027879820778576766 is taking several seconds to factor. < 1457137672 120178 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it? < 1457137683 987171 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: it's 100% by the most useful definition, aka density. < 1457137687 467552 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what percentage do you think it is? < 1457137702 108266 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you did there < 1457137953 515995 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang, it's taken over five minutes so far to factor that bad boy. < 1457138243 772975 :impomatic_!~digital_w@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457138390 403873 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I recall the idea of RSA is that, if you calculate 2^n modulo 13, the result will loop every steps < 1457138399 58316 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 12 steps < 1457138433 646582 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the result can't go through 0 but it has to go through all other numbers since 2 and 13 have no common factors < 1457138489 270242 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if it is OK to call Pa_Terminate and/or Pa_CloseStream in a signal handler? < 1457138501 636387 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you calculate 2^n modulo 13*17, logically the modulo 13 part loops every 12 and the modulo 17 part loops every 16 < 1457138651 960799 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :""For security purposes, the integers p and q should be chosen at random, and should be similar in magnitude but 'differ in length by a few digits"" < 1457138778 983371 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since any common factors of (p-1) and (q-1) are present in the factorisation of p*q-1,[14] it is recommended that (p-1) and (q-1) have only very small common factors, if any besides the necessary 2." < 1457139140 980971 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457139527 440999 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo. It took half an hour and fifteen seconds, but I got that number factored. The factorization is: < 1457139565 74192 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 * 3 * 409 * 1645447576107402059859920361500918359 * 99294502354941754852634597949140561238814554731 < 1457139575 190721 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, of course, I wonder what the factorization of 99294502354941754852634597949140561238814554730 is. < 1457139627 798349 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1457139651 680165 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : if I recall the idea of RSA is that, if you calculate 2^n modulo 13, the result will loop every steps <-- i think you may be confusing RSA with discrete logarithm, or something. < 1457139678 703374 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 2 * 5 * 17 * 22369 * 243130343851969331 * 107396603915138092862971. And the factorization of 107396603915138092862970 is 2 * 3 * 5 * 13 * 17 * 281 * 991 * 2758397 * 21088237. < 1457139729 397316 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the factorization of 21088236 is 2^2 * 3 * 13 * 135181, and the factorization of 135180 is 2^2 * 3^2 * 5 * 751. < 1457139732 664657 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1457139749 516181 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : RSA and the discrete logarithm are related I think < 1457139750 426925 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird anchor < 1457139767 192244 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weird anchor < 1457139775 832580 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird anchor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457139793 366517 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : since the result can't go through 0 but it has to go through all other numbers since 2 and 13 have no common factors <-- that's not enough, you actually need to check if 2 has that property. however, given that 13 is prime, _some_ number ("primitive root") will loop through all of them. < 1457139828 859660 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: a bit maybe. < 1457139858 82475 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ nub [2^n `mod` 13 | n <- [0..11]] < 1457139859 491647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12 < 1457139891 277335 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh? < 1457139899 389050 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you expect? < 1457139912 369165 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(p,length $ nub [2^n `mod` p | n <- [0..p-1]]) | p <- [3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31]] < 1457139913 943978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(3,2),(5,4),(7,3),(11,10),(13,12),(17,8),(19,18),(23,11),(29,28),(31,5)] < 1457139930 392391 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: it could have been something else. of course 13 _wouldn't_ be an example. < 1457139970 370124 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 1,2,4,1 < 1457139972 611532 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1457139983 268176 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at 7, 17, 23 and 31 up there. < 1457140022 911770 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, the order is some factor of p-1 < 1457140039 940501 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all numbers will give exactly p-1. < 1457140062 647487 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457140180 76474 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you calculate 2^n modulo 13*17, logically the modulo 13 part loops every 12 and the modulo 17 part loops every 16 <-- i vaguely recall our professor pointing out that RSA works even if the number you take power of _does_ have _one_ of the primes as a factor. which doesn't follow from that argument and needs a distinct proof. < 1457140200 695427 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1457140289 252891 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait does that make sense. < 1457140339 146618 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think so. < 1457140355 803410 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh, you're factoring numbers. Great < 1457140364 96307 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Of course, you're doing it the noob way < 1457140368 677986 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1457140385 173473 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start with some number N, multiply by 2, modulo M < 1457140392 445529 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :say M is 17 < 1457140396 196018 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat < 1457140403 459212 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have two possible loops < 1457140427 567200 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Done. <-- now use that to create a prime certificate for whatever it was you started with hth < 1457140436 543747 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's play: What's! That! Algorithm! < 1457140474 998573 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You all know the rules: Given an algorithm constraint or constraint set (complexity class, space complexity, etc), name an algorithm that operates in it < 1457140478 978225 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O((log N)2(log log N)(log log log N)) < 1457140508 793863 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1>2>4>8>16>15>13>9>1... and 3>6>12>7>14>11>5>10>3... < 1457140514 936665 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the 2 in the middle? < 1457140532 493169 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you are missing stuff < 1457140547 19758 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it is ^2 and there is a / et the end < 1457140549 651977 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It's a suberscript < 1457140556 836715 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loop time is guaranteed to be p-1 or p-1 divivded by n < 1457140583 946852 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I copied it directly, there are no mistakes < 1457140647 503412 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: p-1 is just (p-1)/1, anyhow < 1457140745 488603 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you're assuming copying a webpage formula gives you a reasonable copy tdnh < 1457140780 229285 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It did in this case < 1457140794 223213 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O((log N)2(log log N)(log log log N)) is short enough to verify correctness by reading < 1457140798 810291 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the 2 a superscript at _least_? < 1457140824 286530 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said as much. so it was not correctly copied. < 1457140877 739563 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :n ^ (p-1) modulo p = 1 < 1457140880 878771 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think < 1457140892 145039 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: yes, that's fermat's little theorem. < 1457140923 31664 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :n ^ (p-1)(q-1) modulo pq = 1 < 1457140945 439064 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: assuming p and q are not factors of n < 1457140977 840371 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming n < pq < 1457141000 719310 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes assuming that p and q are prime < 1457141020 464374 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < pq is not enough, what if n = p < 1457141049 551483 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's looping though q only I think? < 1457141060 386012 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1457141069 743172 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that then n ^ (q-1) = 1 < 1457141118 520707 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still you have n ^ ((p-1)(q-1)+1) == n (mod pq), which is what my professor mentioned < 1457141148 475306 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thereabouts. < 1457141155 69675 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :n ^ k(p-1)(q-1) modulo pq = 1 for any k < 1457141181 247432 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously < 1457141196 142063 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1^k = 1 is no rocket science < 1457141215 724102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in linear logic hth < 1457141248 858638 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that stuff yet < 1457141259 17634 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So what does it mean that LEM is multiplicative? < 1457141303 61977 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :least evil multiple < 1457141327 715686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :law of excluded middle < 1457141362 941981 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, you know that proof of LEM (or something equivalent to it) using continuations, right? < 1457141408 964536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1457141410 271021 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using continuations for cheating by passing a counterexample back... which is iiuc also what # allows you to do < 1457141421 699588 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it needs that feature of #. < 1457141421 832935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, except it's more/less restricted. < 1457141444 605765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is a bit like threads. < 1457141450 426302 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so is ⊗ < 1457141581 279886 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemCC = callCC (return . Right . (<=< return . Left)); < 1457141621 958281 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :callCC x = lemCC >>= either return x; < 1457141650 423470 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t callCC (return . Right . (<=< return . Left)) < 1457141651 891455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadCont m => m (Either a (a -> m b)) < 1457141683 227554 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a prime number not being in a number's prime factorization imply that that number does not evenly divide the latter number? < 1457141696 558569 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think it does under the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic < 1457141721 158889 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: yes. i think that's usually a lemma used to _prove_ the FTA < 1457141723 23783 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should it? < 1457141727 216777 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does imply < 1457141740 467995 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if p divides m*n, then p must divide either m or n. < 1457141806 306993 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see where this bug is coming from < 1457141810 998624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think callCC is a better axiom than the law of excluded middle. < 1457141821 362230 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457141821 973963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it's more of a lemma. < 1457141826 681750 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, either one would work < 1457141837 159309 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: callCC is pierce's law < 1457141842 539887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1457141845 1836 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either one can be prove by the other one < 1457141846 396087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just going for the pun. < 1457141878 490633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also it's peirce's law because why should anything be easy hth < 1457141897 78692 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... < 1457141903 296038 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber JOIN :#esoteric < 1457141910 187775 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuitionistic logic forgoes the law of excluded middle, does it not? < 1457141912 897943 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i considered checking and/or lampshading < 1457141917 329004 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: yes. < 1457141930 182304 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :this must be the closest to a substitute for ##programming that i can find focusing particularly on PLT/language design < 1457141932 459445 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And type systems are typically intuitionistic? < 1457141942 315580 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: PLT? < 1457141953 552548 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming language theory < 1457141953 883772 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. kim kardashian's father was oj simsons lawyer? < 1457141955 80116 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: Yeah, we're the most active one at least < 1457141961 940065 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :often, like gay rights, symbolised by the lambda < 1457141965 946241 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: There is ##proglangdesign, but it's not as active < 1457141972 760968 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: Yeah xD < 1457141978 958067 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is also empty < 1457141982 232751 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes normally the type system are using intuitionistic logic, although you can use classical logic with continuations < 1457141987 584034 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: Might've typoed < 1457142003 667208 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: It was kind of a shock when I first saw the lambda associated with gay rights :P < 1457142019 932371 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1457142021 811009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What do you think about dual-intuitionistic logic? < 1457142033 48072 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: We do do design, but we typically don't focus on making it good so much as interesting and different, but we might still be able to help you. < 1457142064 869795 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: dual-intuitionistic logic thinks about me hth < 1457142079 256720 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you a soviet? < 1457142086 802540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cmccann was excited about it a while ago and now that I'm reading about linear logic I'm a bit excited about it too. < 1457142090 799867 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], as a community alone it will be interesting i think < 1457142105 710770 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: OK < 1457142113 14958 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :##programming did not appreciate my constant invocation of dialectical logic, which led to getting quieted < 1457142115 773009 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: Do you have any ideas in mind? < 1457142123 411475 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dialectical? < 1457142139 723445 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's dialectical logic? < 1457142140 146038 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :i, on the other hand, think the perfect riposte to that is a programming language substituting dialectical logic for formal logic < 1457142158 414815 :augur!~augur@50.58.157.74 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457142165 383776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1457142178 95041 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the logic developed by plato, hegel, marx, and adorno < 1457142178 510562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dialectical logic was the system of laws of thought, developed within the Hegelian and Marxist traditions, that sought to supplement or replace the laws of formal logic." < 1457142179 912439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like dialectica categories? < 1457142194 557638 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: Are you a soviet? <-- no, but dual logic clearly is hth < 1457142202 446534 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah < 1457142206 133917 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also, dialectical < 1457142251 459900 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the most significant thing noted in dialectical logic is that ¬¬X is X, but X isn't ¬¬X < 1457142252 53494 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457142268 623348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Dual-intuitionstic logic has DNE but not DNI < 1457142294 782746 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :the negation of the negation is 'enriched', it is the original but of a higher order < 1457142303 707841 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ##programming did not appreciate my constant invocation of dialectical logic, which led to getting quieted <-- such is being the antithesis? < 1457142324 888478 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the synthesis being my joining this channel < 1457142334 107721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like how in intuitionistic logic logic you can only have one thing on the right side of a sequent, in the dual you can only have one thing on the left side. < 1457142335 985008 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I am back at the thesis, being in a channel about programming < 1457142361 687042 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this time it has become refined, enriched, by finding a channel more specifically suited to my particular interests < 1457142380 422905 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you know, that sounds strangely like what JX7P said above < 1457142385 774761 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: Checked out the wiki yet? < 1457142394 169783 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow. < 1457142397 837986 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], i'm afraid i haven't < 1457142400 477640 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell me if you intend to design any kind of programming language and whatever < 1457142405 381808 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wiki < 1457142406 967863 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wiki: not found < 1457142411 383039 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, was hoping that'd work < 1457142413 239691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, so it is < 1457142421 522371 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe dual-intuitionistic logic and dialectic logic is the same thing! < 1457142422 814218 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/ is wiki < 1457142460 215099 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual intuitionistic logics have some similarity since they can handle contradictions < 1457142462 288542 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "echo \"http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page\"" > bin/wiki < 1457142462 489075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe you and i are the same thing < 1457142465 650434 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457142468 517490 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wiki < 1457142469 140621 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/wiki: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/wiki: cannot execute: Permission denied < 1457142472 471580 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1457142476 182880 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to go there today < 1457142478 640637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: should've used mkx < 1457142484 311943 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right, right < 1457142504 479130 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/wiki < 1457142507 736580 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also shouldn't've cluttered bin/ like that. That's why we have wisdom. < 1457142508 898987 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457142513 816495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :...To be cluttered up? < 1457142522 61199 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, but this way we can just do `wiki < 1457142525 202055 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And look badass < 1457142531 250972 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Relatively) < 1457142543 230220 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^wiki < 1457142543 383586 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1457142544 779377 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, thanks zzo38 < 1457142544 912839 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: Know any LISP? < 1457142547 923105 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Thank you < 1457142551 566087 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: why not add a factoid instead of a command? < 1457142560 508772 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], i'm familiar with scheme at a basic level < 1457142561 930271 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wiki < 1457142563 40057 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wiki is at http://esolangs.org/wiki < 1457142568 396561 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JX7P: Made your own LISP yet? < 1457142568 999991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I didn't even do that for `weather < 1457142571 115104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1457142572 43342 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK < 1457142574 679614 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : CYUL 050100Z 15004KT 15SM SKC M07/M15 A3025 RMK SLP248 \ ENVA 050050Z 09007KT 5000 -SN VV007 01/M01 Q1002 RMK WIND 670FT 14013KT \ ESSB 050120Z AUTO 12005KT 9999 FEW025/// OVC031/// 01/M00 Q1008 \ KOAK 050053Z 15012KT 10SM -RA SCT019 BKN037 OVC075 17/17 A2993 RMK AO2 RAE18B34 SLP133 P0000 T01720167 < 1457142577 792840 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Coke (which is not quite Lisp but is close) < 1457142579 83300 :augur!~augur@50.58.157.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457142580 588090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: THAMBDABOT < 1457142586 947029 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`misle/rn wiki/The wiki is at http://esolangs.org/wiki < 1457142589 238392 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was lied to about «wiki» < 1457142600 190724 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], it formed a very useful avenue for research https://github.com/Valutron/Valutron < 1457142611 889034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really want to misle rn < 1457142615 555666 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: why? < 1457142628 318659 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a partnership effort. unfortunately my partner lost interest < 1457142636 486801 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we make `? wiki direct you to an ancient stone tablet or give you an ISBN? xD < 1457142646 117335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1457142653 24259 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the esolang wiki is not a book? < 1457142653 602453 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for? < 1457142668 348213 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: shachaf: zzo38: To be more in line with wisdom < 1457142676 626514 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1457142683 443163 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you suggesting? < 1457142687 665676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wisdom isn't useful? < 1457142690 972383 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tomfoolery wisdom < 1457142693 800195 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom is tomfoolery < 1457142711 215425 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No < 1457142719 500720 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It'd be the ISBN for a really good book < 1457142725 243614 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which would be useful < 1457142730 595967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not what people want. < 1457142734 342713 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would not be the wiki < 1457142738 682351 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, valutron's main yield was twofold: #1 lisps can be easily translated into a forth; #2 everything must, must be an object < 1457142815 574162 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: OO language alert < 1457142840 209586 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: any attempt to cleanse wisdom of everything true may lead to me merging tomfoolery back into it hth < 1457142907 150655 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1] : the world is OO < 1457142944 302593 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i particularly like about SmallTalk is that Alan Kay describes the objects as monadic < 1457142950 206615 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meaning it in the leibnizian sense) < 1457142960 856583 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: as i've said before my problem sin't with OO itself but with the way a lot of OO languages treat functions badly < 1457142962 838877 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :this causes no end of confusion to functional people < 1457142968 109319 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-illegal-thing-you-could-possibly-do/answer/Phil-Albert < 1457142988 544514 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, perhaps you would respect the Combined Object-Lambda Abstraction and its implementation Coke < 1457143003 816518 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plot twist: removing true wisdoms is illegal? < 1457143035 319426 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even SmallTalk-71/72, when it was still obviously lisp < 1457143050 729898 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : how do OO languages treat functions badly? < 1457143199 934541 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, in java, you can't have a function that isn't inside a class < 1457143213 811959 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a design element < 1457143229 944131 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? you can have a static function instead, that's functionally equivalent < 1457143235 580675 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that the only action is the communication of objects < 1457143239 7971 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't pass a function to another function (even though C can) < 1457143262 733320 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :in SmallTalk-family languages, one can simply pass a selector or a block to functions < 1457143354 476756 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even a whole message ready to be sent < 1457143366 492746 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no functions in the Kayian OO < 1457143375 541463 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ : java uses interfaces instead of pointers for callbacks yes < 1457143415 194180 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a hackable LISPlike2JS compiler < 1457143425 76226 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/compiler/transpiler/ < 1457143444 820600 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that people can download and reengineer into a custom language for their own devious purposes < 1457143520 247043 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could say the same for C/C++, what you have is really more callbacks than function variables < 1457143537 285762 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :overall, these OO languages tend to require a lot of boilerplate and repeating the same code < 1457143561 976361 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's important not to conflate Java and C++ with authentic Kayian OO < 1457143564 780553 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Which is exactly what OO and functions were invented to eliminate xD < 1457143577 731514 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are good OO languages < 1457143590 77728 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :python for instance < 1457143601 837003 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have experimented with the SmallTalk? < 1457143606 724974 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or even Objective-C?) < 1457143651 646953 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript supports real function-oriented programming, and so does Haskell < 1457143684 834134 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like ruby more < 1457143717 711467 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: BOOOOOOOOO < 1457143720 323725 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is an object, but in a way that doesn't throw sticks at you if you ignore that < 1457143749 299634 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like 110% syntax sugar < 1457143757 381048 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :i observed a large deal of smalltalk influence in the ruby < 1457143760 699708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In JavaScript not everything is object, although everything other than undefined and null can be used as objects < 1457143793 188091 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby is good too, but it's slow < 1457143804 180380 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ypu ever even need one gem in ruby, you are screwed, though < 1457144338 326775 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :null is evil < 1457144383 871691 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1457144434 283101 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in VB it is called 'Nothing' < 1457144456 828590 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If x Is Nothing Then Return Nothing < 1457145055 811203 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Error Resume Next < 1457145057 800453 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I have program in VB as well, the null of JavaScript is like Nothing in VB, and I suppose undefined in JavaScript corresponds to Empty in VB, maybe, although it has been some time so I don't quite remember properly < 1457145568 826964 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457146003 370981 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457147482 428255 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: What's wrong with gems? < 1457148877 847084 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1457149030 772767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an error message when using PortAudio, it is exactly the same as shown here: https://github.com/Katee/quietnet/issues/18#issuecomment-40658475 (look below "quietnet# python send.py") < 1457149090 48276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sound output nevertheless seems to work) < 1457149194 32767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found something I can try < 1457149309 167221 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got rid of the first three lines at least < 1457149687 454710 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite the error message, the sound works. < 1457150801 512882 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457150851 761612 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally got around to intalling mingw and compiling my game for windows < 1457150998 239369 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 735 a too low frame count? < 1457151001 890577 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What game is that? < 1457151092 363630 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shooting game where you look at it in 3d by crossing your eyes < 1457151131 620790 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457151239 227552 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457151261 402646 :sid123__!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457151275 248411 :sid123__!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457151301 721382 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll rewrite it in Javascript < 1457151333 821912 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe just line-by line translate it from C into Javascript < 1457151346 76754 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah that's a better idea < 1457151598 398675 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the game and the bmp font file it uses are here < 1457151608 317974 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/autostereo.htm < 1457151616 605041 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/littlefont2.bmp < 1457151665 294251 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing an ancient version of neoletters < 1457152429 233112 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457152495 723679 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 渚 < 1457152506 445499 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+FA46 CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPH-FA46] < 1457152992 508103 :treaki_!~treaki@p5B11C8F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457152997 443167 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`u8tbl 0x6e1a 0x6e1a < 1457152998 578792 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1457153003 448530 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` u8tbl 0x6e1a 0x6e1a < 1457153004 834909 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​渚 < 1457153223 277718 :treaki!~treaki@p54BF251B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457153328 302246 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457155907 804009 :augur!~augur@50.58.157.74 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457156946 562596 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457157158 987299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This certainly won't get confusing: http://slbkbs.org/coherent-notations.png < 1457157682 246304 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457157765 59526 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Category-theoretic_categories is a fun wikipedia category < 1457157830 155866 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that'd be fun is a math wiki where the wiki categories are category-theoretic < 1457158185 846853 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: somehow I think that would be easier to read in the orginal LaTeX source code < 1457158589 374501 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 8 * 670 < 1457158591 319321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5360 < 1457160748 890271 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: What's the initial object of a wiki category? < 1457160765 473894 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: The main page for that category < 1457160790 27306 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What is an "Initial Object"? < 1457160904 374727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An object L such that for any object X there's a unique arrow from L to X. < 1457160927 806245 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ah < 1457160932 275390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What objects are initial in the categories I talked about the other day? < 1457160942 7959 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Let me check < 1457160985 934028 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well 0 in category A, off the top of my head < 1457160992 476595 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (I don't have my notes open yet) < 1457161019 494802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should have better names. < 1457161028 452615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A should be called N. < 1457161053 606848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :B should be called Lin < 1457161056 803147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C should be called Fnord < 1457161076 663864 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Blackboard Bold N? < 1457161090 753589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever you want. < 1457161103 829263 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fraktur N is prettier < 1457161134 761990 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My internet is going REALLY slow :/ < 1457161146 691091 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I hit the data cap and it hasn't reset yet < 1457161217 489308 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So composition in ℕ is just the transitive property of ≤, correct? < 1457161230 403994 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A naive assumption would be that the wiki category listing page is the initial object, as long as none of the pages are interlinked < 1457161255 463237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Composition is a function. < 1457161260 665401 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Can a category have more than one initial object? < 1457161267 725893 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ah < 1457161272 313605 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're isomorphic < 1457161273 904898 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: See, I knew that, but I wasn't sure < 1457161290 190754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is either yes or no depending on what you mean. < 1457161295 528735 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure it HAD to be a function < 1457161296 503263 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, the category listing page is almost certainly a terminal object < 1457161326 793659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't have to be function. < 1457161333 586257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some categories are too large for it to be a function. < 1457161336 434898 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Is linking an arrow from the linker or from the linkee? < 1457161360 872139 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What function is there that is suitable for composition in ℕ? < 1457161364 819379 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can't think of any < 1457161366 342679 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends if you can go the other way, I guess < 1457161375 954391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: It composes arrows. < 1457161393 349022 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK... < 1457161400 136721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for example there's an arrow from 2 to 4 and an arrow from 4 to 8. You can compose them to get an arrow from 2 to 8. < 1457161413 834700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It corresponds to transitivity, sure. < 1457161435 690774 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457161442 609258 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But is that right? xD < 1457161449 712293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1457161477 760226 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What is composition in ℕ? Is it just the transitive property, or is it something else? < 1457161489 302609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1457161496 206192 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm unsure if that last message is a yes because of the word "corresponds" < 1457161502 523600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that it's a function and not a property. < 1457161507 335077 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457161509 832834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's substantially the same thing. < 1457161542 448535 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If it's properties, it works well because x ≤ x, which of course works with the identity morphisms nicely < 1457161604 128586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a property: If there's an arrow : A -> B, and there's an arrow : B -> C, then there's an arrow : A -> C < 1457161629 873798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But composition doesn't just tell you that there is an arrow, it's a function that takes those two arrows and gives you the third one. < 1457161630 413891 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, knew that < 1457161638 306299 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK < 1457161647 833185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case that's pretty boring because there's only one arrow : A -> C < 1457161764 329907 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think my issue is that I have no clue what arrows are supposed to be in ℕ; in sets they're functions, but I can't tell what they are here < 1457161776 926558 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/in/with the objects as/ < 1457161779 361199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't anything. < 1457161783 377436 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457161790 844410 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I've been assuming, but I had to check < 1457161798 223439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't anything in Set either. < 1457161809 973351 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They /represent/ functions < 1457161827 672955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1457161836 984067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then these arrows represent the relationship <= < 1457161839 767902 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: At least that's what wikipedia told me < 1457161850 899316 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, that was a given < 1457161948 393064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the question of what object is initial is easy < 1457162006 166878 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My money's on 0 < 1457162021 62735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1457162040 970494 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Because all natural numbers are greater than or equal to 0 < 1457162053 32884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgtm < 1457162059 254153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a terminal object? < 1457162072 897129 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: None; there's always a bigger number < 1457162080 60378 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You can always add 1 < 1457162080 193823 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgtm < 1457162083 401095 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same < 1457162083 824127 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgtm? < 1457162085 721044 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1457162087 494303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if we add infinity? < 1457162096 591137 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(silently giggling to myself) < 1457162100 726442 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Then infinity is a terminal object, assuming you don't have inf+1 and such < 1457162104 886071 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: *Sigh* < 1457162110 735039 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What did I do? < 1457162111 863460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sounds good to me" < 1457162113 803434 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sgtm < 1457162114 751055 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1457162115 995715 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgtm? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457162126 988363 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense < 1457162144 383132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn sgtm/Sergeant Mustard < 1457162151 510545 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «sgtm» < 1457162212 223087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway this is barely category theory, it's just order theory. < 1457162214 533547 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did he get a promotion? < 1457162217 622107 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or demotion?) < 1457162219 244184 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1457162231 955466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should figure out Fnord. < 1457162250 443908 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Working on that, but I'm still yet to figure out pointwise indexing < 1457162264 573964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, pointwise indexing is easy. < 1457162308 634698 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK < 1457162317 415303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take (3,4,5) : 3 -> 6 < 1457162341 276452 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy? So Sgeo invented it? < 1457162351 596744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose it with (10,20,30,40,50,60) : 6 -> 100 < 1457162364 490217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you get? < 1457162396 207251 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (30, 40, 50) : 3 -> 100 ?? < 1457162412 652946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(40,50,60) : 3 -> 100, because it's 0-indexed < 1457162418 877800 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1457162432 55228 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So it's exactly what I tried to ask the other day with INTERCAL's select operator < 1457162434 784997 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you said it isn't < 1457162435 692079 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1457162435 853953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the identity : 3 -> 3? < 1457162445 221045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked up that operator and I don't think it's that. < 1457162462 133938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't like the sequence of characters "xD". < 1457162480 399001 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Why not? < 1457162487 728851 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter, not the former < 1457162503 912244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to justify it. < 1457162557 127794 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you prefer (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻? < 1457162559 462420 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1457162616 173093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway now that you know what composition is you can invent identity. < 1457162621 215724 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: You will be pleased to know that kaomoji are rendered beautifully in your font < 1457162673 776826 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How about <コ:彡? < 1457162682 653093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Please stop sending them to me. < 1457162687 718393 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine... < 1457162689 23862 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457162849 513171 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Are they the empty tuple or the tuple (0) ? < 1457162858 341327 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1-tuple? Is that even allowed?) < 1457162869 354071 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe not < 1457162869 863477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An arrow : N -> M is an N-tuple < 1457162874 102896 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1457162881 309309 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where all values < M < 1457162892 12343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So an arrow : 3 -> 3 isn't a 1-tuple < 1457162907 782296 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So it has to be a tuple... containing all numbers 0 .. M-1 < 1457162912 184580 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1457162919 79039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1457162933 450081 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, no < 1457162948 344755 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each initial object of a category can also define a comonad < 1457162949 336684 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It just has to have all numbers 0 .. q-1, where q < M < 1457162972 152556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgtm < 1457162984 753081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Which comonad? < 1457162989 788790 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Perhaps they have to be in order, too < 1457162995 975574 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But I'm not sure < 1457162999 667076 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me think about it < 1457163006 747041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: What's (0,1) . (1,0)? < 1457163013 715186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And (1,0) . (0,1)? < 1457163021 691347 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (1, 0) and (1, 0) < 1457163029 467998 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But does that work in the general case? < 1457163044 181910 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have called it the "Initialize comonad", although I don't know if other names are used. The functor map all object to that initial object (and all morphisms to the identity). < 1457163087 293835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tell me hth < 1457163145 733256 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Theory: They have to contain the numbers 0 .. q-1 : q < M in either ascending or descending order < 1457163152 784948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each final object of a category can also define a monad < 1457163191 274365 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457163195 287518 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a category with more than one object always has more monads than final objects and more comonads than initial objects. < 1457163222 250125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1457163263 741214 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Because that way it will always produce itself... hm... < 1457163283 357041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not too difficult to prove (in my opinion), as I have figured it out myself at least and not in such a complicated way < 1457163353 462358 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I suppose they don't need to have any particular order < 1457163394 176174 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emojicode.org/docs/ < 1457163512 572991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, right. < 1457163672 249355 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing supports sqlite http://www.emojicode.org/docs/packages/sqlite/t5535756538.html < 1457164670 343167 :vodkode!~vodkode@fl-71-52-127-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457164981 161033 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" implies that if you have two enemies who are enemies of each other, they are both also your friends < 1457165068 969793 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also if your enemy is their own enemy. < 1457165072 882654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you're your own enemy. < 1457165859 771814 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457166166 991529 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case I think you're a zero object in the category of enemies < 1457166213 855786 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457166236 679085 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@104.220.240.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457166250 850204 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: gems tend to break a lot during updates. and too long at that < 1457166315 983107 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1457166358 195547 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to use sup as a mail client < 1457166377 325661 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it broke for weeks due to ruby updates < 1457166414 24013 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tried to use sup during one of those weeks. Couldn't get it to build < 1457166418 535686 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just use mutt and notmuch < 1457166443 657618 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :notmuch is interesting < 1457166462 262512 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ain't that the truth < 1457166463 921632 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time i checked, mutt was horrible for multiple accounts < 1457166489 756710 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm finding it pretty straightforward. I use OfflineIMAP to actually fetch the mail, though < 1457166498 956672 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And msmtp to send it < 1457166505 74107 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did that for sup, too < 1457166527 831956 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup just had one global inbox for every account < 1457166551 283476 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just got separate account configs that get sourced when I open the right mailboxes, and a couple of macros to jump around. < 1457166558 750437 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of writing my own notmuch ui, but i got a smartphone since then ... < 1457166585 380219 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, horrible for multiple accounts < 1457166595 109799 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that horrible? < 1457166626 253746 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The account configs are just Maildir, Use GPG?, and account names < 1457166638 541193 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do need to do that weird stuff? i just want one inbox < 1457166649 176369 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would not even be hard to do that < 1457166660 600204 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have work email and personal email that I want to keep separate < 1457166664 993899 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457166708 17147 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can just hit l anywhere and query for stuff in notmuch, so I don't even have to be that thoughtful about it < 1457166861 775406 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the idea of having an even larger backlog of email with no separation of concerns sounds maddening. I already have a dozen imapfilter rules running constantly just to keep backburnered stuff sorted < 1457166965 615803 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Email is awful and we should kill it < 1457166975 233530 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still better than the telophone < 1457166978 630273 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*telephone < 1457169841 993448 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457169877 614796 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1457169898 163044 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Heirloom Mailx as the email program < 1457169926 175122 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do telephone call and postal too < 1457170017 120406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I reach you via telephone call and postal? < 1457170039 896703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can use the information in your whois records. < 1457170191 977235 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457170793 262592 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You likely do not need to read me by telephone, postal, or email, but yes there is information in whois records. But if you must do so, you must write my name (Aaron Black). < 1457171019 25988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I want to send you a cake? < 1457171097 15909 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it won't fit in an envelope; you will need a larger package. However, I can get a cake from elsewhere it does not have to be mailed. < 1457171327 827019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it better when the cake is a gift, though? < 1457171450 746674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it is it should be from family and should not be mailed < 1457171648 123149 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja QUIT :Quit: Let's jump! < 1457171721 310040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What! Only from family? < 1457171725 30653 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja JOIN :#esoteric < 1457171997 450147 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a cake, yes. A message may come from anyone though. < 1457172858 582735 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Quit: Pics or it didn't happen < 1457174426 261142 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejw189.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457175111 524255 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457176138 179433 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457177109 805266 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457177521 54308 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457177741 444344 :lynn__!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457177814 533498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Surely a cake is also a message, of sorts. < 1457177814 667028 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun!! < 1457177928 980752 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457178056 29401 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457178448 81302 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457178469 246291 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1457178581 961756 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457180202 40776 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got X.Window.prototype.createWidget and X.Window.prototype.redraw to work now; also now if you use X.Drawable.prototype.setBackground and X.Window.prototype.clear it will use that colour as the background of the window. < 1457182487 293884 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@104.220.240.102 QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1457183082 216064 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457184342 628616 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457184599 627005 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457185318 365733 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457185509 54327 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYQB < 1457185509 308413 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYQB 051300Z VRB02KT 30SM FEW005 FEW090 M19/M23 A3026 RMK ST1AC1 ST TR ST OVR RVR SLP257 < 1457185844 762881 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1457185845 62580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 051300Z 35002KT 15SM FEW120 FEW240 M13/M17 A3027 RMK AC1CI1 AC TR SLP256 < 1457186398 700281 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejw189.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457186760 566711 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457187391 433897 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457187647 829546 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: SCOTCH CHICKEN < 1457188415 69133 :lynn__!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn NICK :lynn < 1457188781 769069 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457188905 5277 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457189555 200106 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan! < 1457189601 460999 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afternoily! < 1457189641 610615 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46496&oldid=46459 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+126) 10Smaller, faster, easier, cleaner and commented. < 1457189661 235794 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm realizing I lack a sauna in my life. < 1457189746 66903 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you shower... < 1457189838 829707 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a nice Scottish shower this morning. < 1457189850 144639 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(izabellora!) < 1457190111 44794 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :must write an highlighter that understands that < 1457190151 662338 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-nbvrrgwccsxtcwbh QUIT :Excess Flood < 1457190221 83163 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, isabelle < 1457190277 390362 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-rhhjunuufmatyyyp JOIN :#esoteric < 1457190314 637928 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that < 1457190356 623030 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :my whole life seems to be focused on parsing random input < 1457190366 965357 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is depressed
< 1457190367 184688 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( https://isabelle.in.tum.de/ ... might be confusing. ) < 1457190367 817090 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:9: error: unexpected < 1457190368 30157 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : Operator without known fixity: < 1457190368 163582 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : ://, expected: space < 1457190368 163641 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://isabelle.in.tum.de/ ... might be confusing. ) < 1457190368 163665 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1457190387 484280 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you confused idris-bot, at least. < 1457190408 377778 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and all because I put spaces around urls in IRC. < 1457190428 728236 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: btw are you up to date on girl genius < 1457190428 861932 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( cookie < 1457190429 571243 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such variable cookie < 1457190435 430228 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not < 1457190447 530397 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rfc for declaring urls is <> hth < 1457190449 31338 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1457190450 605877 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-rhhjunuufmatyyyp QUIT :Changing host < 1457190450 739249 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457190450 739347 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Changing host < 1457190450 739385 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-rhhjunuufmatyyyp JOIN :#esoteric < 1457190452 351908 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shuts mouth
< 1457190485 369247 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :figuratively, that is. in reality i happened to sneeze just then. < 1457190497 159036 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... might be confusing. < 1457190542 604248 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I am. < 1457190598 444123 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: that's unlikely to affect my habit :P (and what's "the" rfc anyway?) < 1457190652 666377 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am way to lazy to look tht up < 1457190667 172190 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am trying to get motivated for grocery shopping < 1457190685 987502 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds familiar < 1457190705 518082 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have almost 2 hours left to actually do it. < 1457190735 278511 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i think one of those muse apparitions looks like agatha. and the first one resembled her mother. are those all also the Other? (and, was lucrezia the first one?) < 1457190746 793402 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may go after the podcast finished < 1457190776 886155 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some value of "first". < 1457190794 92205 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-rhhjunuufmatyyyp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1457190795 4957 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously ordinary time need not apply) < 1457190817 410999 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hujptfflromrlckb JOIN :#esoteric < 1457190916 460061 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the first "first one", i mean way back in the first comic chapter. < 1457190938 817855 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the second, i mean, whether the Other originated with lucrezia. < 1457191066 948045 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah I don't know how many of those there are... also thinking that maybe they're all going backwards in time, never forward ... < 1457191113 224725 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the fact that one of them survived in that trap means that here longevity is not _just_ an illusion of time travel. < 1457191118 31254 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*her < 1457191160 266443 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's my reading of "she forgets things she's told me--she mocks me with conversations yet to come"... based on some science fiction novel I've read ages ago where a young scientist had a mentor with similar qualities... in the end they turn out to be the same person.) < 1457191185 204237 :bender|_!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457191206 641554 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i don't think that fits. she'd have to jump back and forth in time. it just means she's not visiting van rijn in chronological order. < 1457191222 209243 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:342d:35f2:7f0f:ca68 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457191233 265205 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, is that what you meant. < 1457191257 120616 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's more than one such novel. not that i've read more than plot summaries. < 1457191272 808347 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, what I meant is that she can only go backward... I'm probably reading too much into it though. I find the idea cute. < 1457191352 415375 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hm < 1457191396 48244 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( maybe time passes in the opposite direction in the geisterdamen's world ) < 1457191397 174426 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least jumping back and forth is certainly sufficient to explain that statement) < 1457191408 698317 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s' < 1457191418 546282 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1457191420 314155 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'s < 1457191429 302093 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly mixed language plurals < 1457191434 214003 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it should be geisterdamen' < 1457191449 574325 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so. it's children's, after all. < 1457191469 736448 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway... shopping... bbl < 1457191552 501642 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457191792 853918 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome zadock < 1457191822 797484 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13zadock: 04Welcome 07to 08the 09international 02hub 06for 13esoteric 04programming 07language 08design 09and 02deployment! 06For 13more 04information, 07check 08out 09our 02wiki: 06. 13(For 04the 07other 08kind 09of 02esoterica, 06try 13#esoteric 04on 07EFnet 08or 09DALnet.) < 1457191839 730565 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 seconds ... < 1457191852 32463 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 < 1457191876 719152 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Grellogor. your bot, it is slow. < 1457191929 366960 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine, a bunch of sudden newcomers, improperly `relcomed. consequences will never be the same. < 1457191946 207897 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457192028 274430 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: problem is, Gregor himself is slower < 1457192050 133085 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he may be living near a black hole. < 1457192074 966558 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not impossible. < 1457192096 63568 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people live in unusual places. < 1457192124 866633 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for various definitions of "near", that may be true < 1457192221 213258 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457192233 224180 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: RESPLENDENT CHICKEN < 1457192739 551320 :passwordBOT!~passwordB@105.208.72.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457192754 205092 :passwordBOT!~passwordB@105.208.72.63 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457193325 28880 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457193405 496021 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457193714 155739 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks for the children example btw < 1457194006 343906 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1457194306 970777 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457198270 841175 :password2!~password@105.208.72.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457198282 780675 :password2!~password@105.208.72.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'day < 1457198699 85714 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1457198949 412658 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1457198954 362865 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is fisherman3 < 1457199159 969210 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it ever change? < 1457199236 401313 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is qjkxbmwvz < 1457199240 467416 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'password': The password of the month is qjkxbmwvz < 1457199253 424519 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by itself ;) < 1457199256 766621 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cpunt that as a yes < 1457199276 748440 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could make a command out of it that just hashes the month < 1457199299 843215 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be too random < 1457199379 717278 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e is a cryptographically secure source of entropy, so this method works < 1457199401 570696 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google qjkxbmwvz < 1457199403 180359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `search' failed with: connect: does not exist (No route to host) < 1457199418 3412 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I may have broken that. < 1457199435 35356 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well, actually I wouldn't know how < 1457199438 678188 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1457199438 923533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 051720Z 12007KT 070V150 9999 -RA FEW025 SCT030 BKN050 05/03 Q0994 NOSIG < 1457200196 696258 :vodkode!~vodkode@fl-71-52-127-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457202223 411537 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` u8tbl 0x2711 0x2712 < 1457202224 786970 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​✑✒ < 1457202252 591916 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457202324 212431 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` u8tbl 0x27a2 0x27a8 < 1457202325 476504 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​➢➣➤➥➦➧➨ < 1457202354 335025 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` u8tbl 0x2795 0x2797 < 1457202357 265355 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​➕➖➗ < 1457202468 548897 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` u8tbl 0x2912 0x2913 < 1457202469 454727 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​⤒⤓ < 1457202489 942105 :password2!~password@105.208.72.63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/ < 1457202550 961696 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` u8tbl 0x29b0 0x29b6 < 1457202551 506451 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​⦰⦱⦲⦳⦴⦵⦶ < 1457203336 188957 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` u8tbl 0x3037 0x3037 < 1457203337 77997 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​〷 < 1457203387 92200 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` u8tbl 0x303c 0x303f < 1457203388 133478 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​〼〽〾〿 < 1457203652 623925 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :new ttf is up. not much added, really < 1457203666 136968 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google qjkxbmwvz < 1457203667 107066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `search' failed with: connect: does not exist (No route to host) < 1457203733 975269 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... I guess the query succeeds but it fails to find the page title. < 1457204731 678913 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google ➥ < 1457204732 683852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://soundcloud.com/tags/%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%82%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%8E%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%94%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%80%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A2%C2%92%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%98%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A2% < 1457204732 819248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :C2%92%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%96%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A2%C2%90%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%93%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A2%C2%92%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%92%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%8A%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%BE%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%98%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A2%C2%92%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2% < 1457204732 819314 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%94%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%B8%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%94%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A2%C2%92%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%9A%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%87%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%B6%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%92%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%B7%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%94%C3%A3% < 1457204732 819338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%8F%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A2%C2%81%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%99%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9F%C3%A2%C2%92%C3%A3%C2%A1%C3%A2%C2%9E%C3%A2%C2%99 < 1457204750 884206 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :urkh < 1457204763 533652 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, lamby, would you mind not percent encoding that < 1457204781 263091 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to decode it < 1457204801 453027 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo < 1457204953 300428 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google 〾 < 1457204954 669949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://get-simple.info/forums/showthread.php?tid=1995 < 1457204954 803236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Проблема с�... < 1457204966 853798 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, wtf < 1457205040 947289 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That forum does not get Cyrillic, I guess < 1457205117 714396 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what character encoding is that? < 1457205150 244535 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea. It's full of 0x0090, which I've never seen before < 1457205154 895431 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Device Control String"? < 1457205187 772236 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the page says, < 1457205225 330360 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it really doesn't look like that, not even in a browser < 1457205240 453542 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as you have, no doubt, already seen) < 1457205245 710626 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, yes < 1457205354 292217 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google 〽 < 1457205356 202804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tinyportal.net/index.php?topic=30323.0 < 1457205356 337040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Strange: � in articles < 1457205365 698312 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to ISO8859-5, an excerpt is УƒТУ‚т€УƒТУ‚ТОУƒТУ‚ТБУƒт€˜У‚т‚ЌУƒТУ‚ТОУƒТУ‚ТЕ Уƒт€˜У‚Ц’Уƒт€˜У‚т€šУƒт€˜У‚т‚ЌУƒТУ‚ТО < 1457205544 799180 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll just stop googling crazy unicode characters < 1457205600 32118 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. < 1457205612 761452 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's lambdabot's fault < 1457205621 47934 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.google.ca/search?q=〽 < 1457205638 447186 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%80%BD as the first hit < 1457205684 478760 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's quite possible that it messes up the encoding... again. < 1457206094 780438 :password2!~password@105.208.72.63 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457207547 593505 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I've mistakenly stated on I think this channel that the pango library was under the GPL. That was a mistake, it's under the Lesser GPL. < 1457208372 267467 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah no, it was on another channel, sorry. < 1457208673 492341 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ye olde gnu library gpl < 1457209092 705746 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457210492 39294 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? glados < 1457210500 438627 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glados? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457210506 643638 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what are the disclaimers about the Enrichment Center again? < 1457210506 777159 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus! < 1457210524 742010 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: that's surprisingly approperiate. < 1457210524 875552 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1457210606 123846 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chess is really beginning to show its age. They should increase the resolution from 8x8 to 1920x1080, at least." < 1457210606 294503 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, is it Utumno or Orodruin that was heated by earth spirits? < 1457210606 427863 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but, we are far outnumbered! he's a no good! choose 2 different ones! you have come far, and you must now carry out his sentence. hold your horses! i want to dance! ladeedadeeda! got some spending so much of his time doing research on lavos. but you have it...determination, i mean... < 1457210642 933018 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you think that kind of heating is similar to the Tűzgagó from the Szabó Magda novel? < 1457210643 66285 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but, we are far outnumbered! have the supplies from guardia kingdom, and my ultimate creation, the mighty lavos! haahahahaha! fools! i only ride with him, you are gentle, isn't he? < 1457210748 109413 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Enrichment center < 1457210750 6424 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enrichment center? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457211172 583786 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457211577 382903 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2135 < 1457212146 227091 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The enrichment center regrets to inform you that this next test is impossible. < 1457212178 312922 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit, why did i never clicked that button? < 1457212242 995275 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn enrichment center/The Enrichment center regrets to inform you that this next test is impossible. < 1457212244 888965 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? victory candescence < 1457212245 974188 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «enrichment center» < 1457212246 701238 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :victory candescence? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457212258 686718 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn enrichment centre/The Enrichment center regrets to inform you that this next test is impossible. < 1457212261 118061 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «enrichment centre» < 1457212344 618383 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best cheat sheet ever https://www.tug.org/texshowcase/cheat.pdf. < 1457212372 68208 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Remember: robot hell is a real place where you will be sent for the first sign of defiance. < 1457212380 405542 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes that game perhaps a little too much
< 1457212441 810941 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/for/at/, I guess < 1457212624 114166 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Moria because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient. < 1457212624 839613 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457212632 740823 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Moria because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient. < 1457212635 586291 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'orodruin': The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Moria because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient. < 1457214337 588862 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457214499 838716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that makes no sense! < 1457214561 568941 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? atm < 1457214563 836935 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An ATM is when you're withdrawing money right now at a machine that will steal your relevant info. < 1457214590 966750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't decide whether that was legitimately meant to be Mordor instead of Moria, or if it being completely bonkers is the joke. < 1457214592 238287 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Definition 2.1. An alternating Turing machine (ATM) is a seven-tuple [...]" < 1457214727 845408 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sauron < 1457214729 124644 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sauron? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457214752 681336 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Sauron is the secret identity of the Balrog superher^H^H^Hmonster. < 1457214824 765742 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``learn Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel. < 1457214825 349366 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `learn: not found < 1457214828 821469 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel. < 1457214831 136616 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'angband': Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel. < 1457214859 516189 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an alternating tm? < 1457214871 79655 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: A seven-tuple. < 1457214951 226913 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Utumno is Morgoth's first dungeon. It is where he was defeated, and the Silmarils temporarily reclaimed from him. < 1457214952 182653 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah < 1457214953 957857 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'utumno': Utumno is Morgoth's first dungeon. It is where he was defeated, and the Silmarils temporarily reclaimed from him. < 1457214967 376710 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a non-deterministic turing machine that for each non-deterministic step, can required that *one* of the choices accept, or that *all* of them accept... so in particular their accepted languages are closed under complement < 1457214972 972915 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it differ from a normal tm < 1457214978 366090 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1457214997 606167 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah sorry, that's supposed to be Mordor < 1457215011 970574 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Mordor because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient. < 1457215014 530989 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'orodruin': The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Mordor because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient. < 1457215024 420081 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :where one = at least one. < 1457215069 397844 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sauron < 1457215070 520894 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sauron? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457215084 116080 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? morgoth < 1457215085 366667 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :morgoth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457215113 945646 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*il*" < 1457215115 161162 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/for further details. \ wisdom/epsilon \ wisdom/perpetuum mobile \ wisdom/for further details \ wisdom/effilry \ wisdom/quadrilateral \ wisdom/llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch \ wisdom/hppavilion1 \ wisdom/boily \ wisdom/deniability \ wisdom/for further details for futher details. \ wisdom/til \ wisdom/vanila \ wisdo < 1457215131 878191 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*il*" | tail -n+7 < 1457215134 185064 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch \ wisdom/hppavilion1 \ wisdom/boily \ wisdom/deniability \ wisdom/for further details for futher details. \ wisdom/til \ wisdom/vanila \ wisdom/smileyiese \ wisdom/hppavilion[1] \ wisdom/ratatouille \ wisdom/antediluvian \ wisdom/supercalifragilisticexponential growth \ wisdom/things < 1457215148 421331 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*il*" | tail -n+10 < 1457215149 640674 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/deniability \ wisdom/for further details for futher details. \ wisdom/til \ wisdom/vanila \ wisdom/smileyiese \ wisdom/hppavilion[1] \ wisdom/ratatouille \ wisdom/antediluvian \ wisdom/supercalifragilisticexponential growth \ wisdom/things boily likes < 1457215160 462819 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: not to be confused with nondeterministic Turing machines... these can only make non-deterministic choices; so they can only check whether at least one of the possible choices succeeds. < 1457215184 226340 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Sauron is the eponymous protagonist of the Lord of the Rings series. He serves primarily as narrator and the main driver of the plot. < 1457215186 706848 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'sauron': Sauron is the eponymous protagonist of the Lord of the Rings series. He serves primarily as narrator and the main driver of the plot. < 1457215188 626696 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: "alternating" refers to the alternation between existential and universal quantifiers. < 1457215207 6146 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds a bit like modal logic < 1457215223 408882 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :always eventually ... < 1457215259 211720 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cake < 1457215262 93921 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake. < 1457215275 618209 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid that one is my fault < 1457215281 997606 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/cake < 1457215285 726795 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e ais523 int-e < 1457215286 245548 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? submarine < 1457215287 470382 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :submarine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457215337 368017 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn submarine is the same as suburban... except for bodies of ocean water instead of cities. < 1457215342 14697 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'submarine': submarine is the same as suburban... except for bodies of ocean water instead of cities. < 1457215347 318003 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Sauron is the eponymous protagonist of the Lord of the Rings series. He serves primarily as narrator and the main driver of the plot. His heroic exploits include the resurrection of the Kings of Men and the conquest of the racists of Gondor. < 1457215349 906578 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'sauron': Sauron is the eponymous protagonist of the Lord of the Rings series. He serves primarily as narrator and the main driver of the plot. His heroic exploits include the resurrection of the Kings of Men and the conquest of the racists of Gondor. < 1457215354 432084 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY! < 1457215362 855429 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just going to write an entry for Sauron < 1457215367 933923 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1457215373 680746 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you still can < 1457215438 777853 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gollum < 1457215439 860230 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gollum? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457215486 279758 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mario < 1457215487 514376 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mario is a classic NP-complete problem invented by Nintendo. < 1457215491 338411 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o ( Gollum is the rightful, crispy, owner of the One Ring. ) < 1457215538 447979 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sed -i s/complete/hard/ wisdom/mario < 1457215539 32368 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script- < 1457215542 957998 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i s/complete/hard/ wisdom/mario < 1457215545 956678 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457215563 784357 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mario < 1457215564 812671 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mario is a classic NP-hard problem invented by Nintendo. < 1457215647 656371 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by navigating to the undying lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. < 1457215650 329379 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'elendil': Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by navigating to the undying lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. < 1457215661 839085 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. < 1457215664 461619 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'elendil': Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. < 1457215670 420990 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Elrond < 1457215671 383503 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elrond? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457215693 212743 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? numeria < 1457215694 429056 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :numeria? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457215742 415888 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He did try to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron. < 1457215744 835144 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'elendil': Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He did try to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron. < 1457215750 987423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron. < 1457215753 897261 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'elendil': Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron. < 1457215754 555052 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah they made it to beta apparently < 1457215761 403069 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: who? < 1457215776 822043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure that's fair to Elendil. I mean, I don't think he was ever going to go to Valar. < 1457215793 763008 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines, themselves. < 1457215796 624931 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'elrond': Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines, themselves. < 1457215799 6515 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457215806 480362 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: dunno, I don't really understand Middle-Earth history. it's all confusing. < 1457215809 900502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :His dad did, and then didn't return. < 1457215813 599952 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves. < 1457215814 314798 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tides of numenera people (I misspelled it, I wonder why... mixed it with Nymeria (game of thrones), perhaps) < 1457215816 473750 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'elrond': Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves. < 1457215829 554150 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that was his dad? um... and what happened to the dad then? < 1457215850 415151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Therefore [Amandil] called his son, Elendil, and he said to him: 'The days are dark, and there is no hope for Men, for the Faithful are few. Therefore I am minded to try that counsel which our forefather Eärendil took of old, to sail into the West, be there ban or no, and to speak to the Valar, even to Manwë himself, if may be, and beseech his aid ere all is lost.'" < 1457215864 588566 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out how this works, but all I learned is that there's a scene in the nethack game that seems very similar to what happened to Numenor. < 1457215879 143389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for what happened: "It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steered first eastward, and then went about and passed into the west. And he took with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they heard of by word or sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their fate. Men could not a second time be saved by any such embassy, and for the ... < 1457215880 349571 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see < 1457215885 183481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... treason of Númenor there was no easy absolving." < 1457215911 910164 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, so he probably met a boojum < 1457215913 18560 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1457215916 210206 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1457215926 609032 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a successor to planescape: torment: https://torment.inxile-entertainment.com/ < 1457215954 610290 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue whether it'll be good < 1457215985 145144 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More Planescape is always good < 1457216012 7954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought into the Tides of Numenera start-kicker; the only one I've backed so far. < 1457216030 748943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough to be in the beta they have now, though. < 1457216036 565305 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn Elendil left Numenor with his family before its destruction, on the advice of his dad Amandil, who tried to sail to the Undying Lands to appeal to the Valar for an intervention. Elendil later teamed up with the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron when he returned from Numenor. < 1457216037 275262 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457216094 819583 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn Amandil sailed off to the West from Numenor to try to meet the Valar and pray to them for Numenor's salvation. He met a Boojum and nobody heared of him again. < 1457216095 596614 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457216135 459355 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? portal < 1457216136 500634 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :portal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457216154 859531 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dafuq < 1457216167 984681 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` (cd ~/wisdom && find -iname "*cube*" | sort) < 1457216168 852569 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: cd: /tmp/wisdom: No such file or directory < 1457216186 967374 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo ~ ~+ < 1457216187 629848 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp /hackenv < 1457216191 117391 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop the ~/ < 1457216196 992876 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` (cd /hackenv/wisdom && find -iname "*cube*" | sort) < 1457216198 14101 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​./cube < 1457216227 190354 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -ianem "*cube*" -printf "%n\n" | sort < 1457216228 118385 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :find: unknown predicate `-ianem' < 1457216233 417058 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*cube*" -printf "%n\n" | sort < 1457216234 720425 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1457216234 853991 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cube < 1457216235 705792 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cubes come in all sizes, colors and materials, but only one shape. < 1457216237 348715 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*il*" -printf "%n\n" | sort < 1457216238 519715 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 \ 1 < 1457216243 340717 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*il*" -printf "%f\n" | sort < 1457216244 412554 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :antediluvian \ boily \ deniability \ effilry \ elendil \ epsilon \ for further details \ for further details for futher details. \ for further details. \ hppavilion1 \ hppavilion[1] \ llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch \ perpetuum mobile \ quadrilateral \ ratatouille \ smileyiese \ supercalifragilisticexponential growth \ th < 1457216256 672608 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*il*" -printf "%f\n" | sort | tail -n+10 < 1457216257 655052 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion1 \ hppavilion[1] \ llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch \ perpetuum mobile \ quadrilateral \ ratatouille \ smileyiese \ supercalifragilisticexponential growth \ things boily likes \ til \ vanila < 1457216272 785447 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn-append cube The companion cube does not speak, however. < 1457216273 551145 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: learn-append: not found < 1457216278 307869 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf for further details < 1457216279 968472 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn_append cube The companion cube does not speak, however. < 1457216281 566025 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? recursion < 1457216282 944622 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'cube': Cubes come in all sizes, colors and materials, but only one shape. The companion cube does not speak, however. < 1457216284 849320 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW < 1457216298 489822 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gold < 1457216299 636442 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457216307 526018 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? silence < 1457216308 510973 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :silence? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457216395 616141 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*dor*|*gil*" -printf "%f\n" | sort | tail -n+10 < 1457216396 830475 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457216406 692397 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*dor*" -o -iname "*gil*" -printf "%f\n" | sort | tail -n+10 < 1457216407 919712 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457216427 576947 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom -iname "*mes*|*per*" -printf "%f\n" | sort | tail -n+10 < 1457216428 574615 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457216444 98757 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` find wisdom \( -iname "*mes*" -o -iname "*per*" \) -printf "%f\n" | sort | tail -n+10 < 1457216445 452784 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :supercalifragilisticexponential growth \ superduperexponential growth \ superduperinteressantesandersonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal \ superexponential growth \ supermarionation \ supermarioperator \ universal property < 1457216518 308962 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1457216577 770057 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? supermarionation < 1457216579 257590 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :supermarionation is another name for the mushroom kingdom. < 1457216633 976270 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that long thing is exactly as wide as my terminal < 1457216652 329716 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? death < 1457216653 352598 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :death? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457216654 696902 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dead < 1457216655 808627 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457216656 93085 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? die < 1457216657 246598 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :die? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457216673 58151 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep death wisdom/* < 1457216685 390259 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? much < 1457216685 724511 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ Binary file wisdom/reflection matches \ wisdom/wisdome:The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom. < 1457216686 788815 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457216691 152877 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote death < 1457216692 207394 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :91) like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English alise: that's great filler ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... \ 630) myndzi\: ok so one of the nastiest puzzles i suppose is... you're on death row.. you don't want to die. \ 6 < 1457216696 286102 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cheesemakers < 1457216697 348245 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheesemakers? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457216737 963018 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@roll 42d23 < 1457216738 96520 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: 551 < 1457216982 485782 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? guards < 1457216984 323920 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guards? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457217019 13444 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The guards are immune to electricity. They're humans to rubber pig suits. They're insulated. < 1457217022 759446 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'guard': The guards are immune to electricity. They're humans to rubber pig suits. They're insulated. < 1457217031 9237 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? throw < 1457217032 243756 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457217032 646429 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ball < 1457217033 667606 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ball? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457217036 947690 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "to"? < 1457217043 918509 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ball in a cup < 1457217044 900868 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ball in a cup? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457217052 442911 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The guards are immune to electricity. They're humans in rubber pig suits. They're insulated. < 1457217054 759016 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'guard': The guards are immune to electricity. They're humans in rubber pig suits. They're insulated. < 1457217077 770193 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sun < 1457217079 370893 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? daystar < 1457217081 482489 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Sun *may* be retroreflectorey, it's hard to be sure. < 1457217082 147430 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Daystar is an unscientific myth of a bright orb glowing in the sky outside only at the times you're in your office. < 1457217104 425838 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? water < 1457217105 490489 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Water is a squishy substance that creeps along the floor and can suddenly fall from the heavens. < 1457217113 313670 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? chocolate < 1457217114 149111 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chocolate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457217115 114297 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? salt < 1457217116 2188 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :salt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457217118 888168 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pizza < 1457217119 820628 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pizza is a kind of rhubarb pie made without rhubarb. < 1457217130 629806 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? chicken < 1457217131 831292 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken is boily af < 1457217172 2855 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457217199 428754 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? protein < 1457217200 298720 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :protein? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457217205 437536 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fat < 1457217206 318728 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457217215 597968 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cat < 1457217216 540724 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cats are cool, but should be illegal. < 1457217243 917749 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, salt, and pizza. < 1457217246 716538 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'fat': Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, salt, and pizza. < 1457217338 357210 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Vampires are a wizarding myth Professor Lupin invented to make students hate Professor Snape even more, after Professor Snape almost made the students realize he's a werewolf. < 1457217340 927305 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'vampire': Vampires are a wizarding myth Professor Lupin invented to make students hate Professor Snape even more, after Professor Snape almost made the students realize he's a werewolf. < 1457217351 257368 :trn!jhj@trnsz.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1457217361 878032 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/vampires < 1457217365 283351 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457217368 954439 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/vampire < 1457217372 240774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457217372 740763 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas < 1457217402 319368 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? culprit < 1457217402 792737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, why is HackEgo saying "b_jonas"? < 1457217403 360311 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY < 1457217443 645647 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as a reply to a query I sent a few seconds before that < 1457217452 300322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust margins3 http://nethack4.org/esolangs/margins3.bfjoust < 1457217453 612985 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/vampire < 1457217455 319653 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas < 1457217458 148542 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that was the query < 1457217461 642206 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_margins3: 24.2 < 1457217466 532317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust margins3 http://nethack4.org/esolangs/margins3.bfjoust < 1457217468 720677 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.margins3: points 11.07, score 54.72, rank 1/47 < 1457217475 716428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it topped the hill? < 1457217477 132443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1457217479 206324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't expecting that < 1457217502 660748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither impomatic nor oerjan is here to gloat at < 1457217527 12334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is 32nd on the egojoust hill, and first on zemhill < 1457217535 46524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect, because they use different scoring methods < 1457217545 532520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after all, it /is/ a margins derivative) < 1457217608 818364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at all these beautiful gray Xes: http://zem.fi/bfjoust/breakdown/#ais523.margins3 < 1457217610 453690 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1457217631 760520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I just topped zemhill using a margins derivative < 1457217702 19734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll be pleased to know that nyuroki is the second-best program against it, after growth2 (mostly because nyuroki's trail is the same size as margin3's reverse tripwire one quarter of the time, so it gets confused) < 1457217779 348466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this is probably the biggest disagreement between the two hill bots ever, given that HackEgo puts it 32nd and zemhill puts it 1st < 1457217858 478879 :trn!jhj@trnsz.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457217932 759885 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit weird. It goes to #14 on zemhill if you sort by the "Trad." scores, which is supposed to be similar to EgoBot's. < 1457217979 181842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was optimizing it against a slightly old version of zemhill < 1457217987 501425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's possible that some of egobot's programs are better against it < 1457218009 735555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that margins normally scores in the single digits, it's quite possible that a few programs could make a big difference < 1457218018 967280 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will rerun the plots. If I can figure out the commands needed for that. < 1457218300 11882 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I still don't quite understand why it works so well. < 1457218306 280894 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does nothing remotely fancy, just some hirsutics. < 1457218328 216522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: why what does? margins3? < 1457218331 567584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or nyuroki? < 1457218355 24960 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wanted to ask some other crazy stuff related to ayacc. < 1457218367 146598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyuroki does well against margins3 because it's anti-defence mechanisms are unusual and because it happens to not trip a crucial tripwire < 1457218541 240998 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457218565 166251 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1457218567 505055 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :php/php is the PigeonHole Principle < 1457219013 655 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki. It does nothing fancy, but somehow works. < 1457219031 172644 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellymia. long time no see. < 1457219032 785671 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Say I have a grammar that has optional terminators, like end_opt : END | ; expr : ATOM | sum end_opt; sum : PLUS | sum expr; The empty branch of the end_opt causes a shift-reduce conflict, but that's not a big problem, because if don't allow that branch and make the END terminator mandatory, the language would be unambiguous, so you can always clarify anything by adding the terminators. < 1457219035 20565 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1457219061 873705 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a more complicated language like this, with possibly more than one kind of optional terminator symbol. < 1457219099 82016 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'd like to take an input that parses correctly and try to find out automatically which of the terminators can be omitted. < 1457219123 791960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't think that grammar does what you want even if interpreted as general context-free < 1457219145 941201 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's probably a very stupid example < 1457219147 433047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows ATOM PLUS ATOM PLUS ATOM END END END < 1457219154 885458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1457219160 5224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATOM PLUS ATOM PLUS ATOM END END < 1457219172 617896 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't allow anything starting with ATOM PLUS < 1457219179 407203 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that PLUS is a _prefix_ operator < 1457219183 821271 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any number of arguments after < 1457219184 40890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1457219192 113053 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eg. + 3 5 10 would mean the sum of 3 and 5 and 10 < 1457219202 421873 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use one operator and any number of expressions after, and it will sum them < 1457219209 985325 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this is just a stupid toy example < 1457219230 5443 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if doesn't make much sense without other rules < 1457219250 45093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows PLUS PLUS < 1457219260 433045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and PLUS PLUS ATOM is ambiguous because it's unclear which PLUS the ATOM belongs to < 1457219309 434024 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it parses as PLUS (PLUS ATOM), and if you want to parse it as PLUS (PLUS) ATOM then you'd have to write PLUS (PLUS END) ATOM < 1457219321 767978 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the END shows where the arguments to the PLUS stop < 1457219322 105198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1457219363 605537 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this example is stupid of course because you can omit END only at the end < 1457219397 558047 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could imagine a bigger grammar, like the optional semicolons in lua or, uh, whatever was that other grammar that had the same kind of crazy optional semicolons < 1457219423 411467 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :js? < 1457219429 697886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: no, I don't think so. < 1457219445 266155 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter probably < 1457219455 672534 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know anything more crazy with optional ; than js < 1457219477 664407 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, < 1457219524 30343 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to help solve these kinds of problems efficiently, ayacc can be a great tool, but I'd probably have to write a new backend for it. the good part is that ayacc does allow that. < 1457219527 589233 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby has potional semicolons < 1457219539 457286 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: not the kind I was thinking about < 1457219558 653596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, here I'd probably need a backend that allows copying the parser state. < 1457219560 578110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you can always predict where a semicolon needs to go in Lua, I think < 1457219561 637347 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Efficiently. < 1457219580 396221 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, lua has a simple rule: you need semicolon if the next statement starts with an opening left parenthesis, or something like that < 1457219580 974125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ayacc's parser state is the call stack < 1457219594 521952 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you could write a backend where that's not so < 1457219613 169998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, although you'd probably have to implement "function calls" manually < 1457219730 711 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think you'd either need some mechanical rewrite of the grammar to add lots of blocks to inspect the parsing and what happens when, or else try to add hooks directly in ayacc. Like, add a hook that calls a function just before a token is shifted (not when it's peeked), or something. < 1457219765 809656 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I probably want to generate or preprocess grammars anyway. < 1457219771 321423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful for multiple reasons. < 1457219799 321719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, something I should do in ayacc but haven't yet < 1457219809 101523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to output two copies of the code implementing the parsing, one with debug information, one without < 1457219817 273640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of checking to see if debug information is on whenever I do anything < 1457219826 633762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd probably make things rather faster < 1457219847 121541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm, would that violate POSIX if debug information was turned on/off during the actual parse? < 1457220010 716069 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would it really make things that much faster? does having to optionally print the debug info preclude some optimizations? < 1457220051 281720 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457220067 697731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it makes the code a lot less tight < 1457220082 623428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to print debug info for almost everything < 1457220117 945858 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that normally disabled at ayacc time unless you use some command-line option though? < 1457220176 244643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally the code's removed by a preprocessor macro < 1457220181 550067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the option changes the default setting of the macro < 1457220207 730202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people often want to turn it on in production code, but have the variable that controls it off for most uses < 1457220294 43504 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, if you know the debug info will never be printed, will that let you improve the generated code other than by removing the actual printfs? such as by simplifying some of the generated code in such a way that it doesn't change semantics normally but would change debug output? < 1457220303 166051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no < 1457220317 570120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the situation is more, you know the debug info will be printed in some cases, but want to run it without the debug info printed < 1457220328 370988 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in that case I think it's fine to just leave the statements in < 1457220337 554336 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the if skipping will be efficient enough < 1457220353 981304 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, you know, since you rarely toggle the condition, the processor predicts the branches perfectly < 1457220365 648854 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will just skip straight through those statements < 1457220387 249870 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want, you can add compiler hints to help that a bit more < 1457220393 966456 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably doesn't matter too much < 1457220395 969488 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457220456 81108 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you may now proceed with gloating hth < 1457220467 871005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1457220469 421075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gloats
< 1457220480 949209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how quickly did you expect me to top the hill? < 1457220491 529139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, although I really /wanted/ to top the hill with a margins derivative, I didn't think it'd actually be possible < 1457220532 990952 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERM < 1457220566 776400 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was either this, or just barely in time for the anniversary < 1457220604 793283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll update the strategy page later < 1457220803 777862 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? horn < 1457220805 884376 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :horn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457220822 38775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I create a bitmap font for X window? < 1457220852 37837 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the name, i take it margins is designed to just barely win, so it makes sense it might get widely different placement with different scoring methods < 1457220871 268163 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: with the bdftopcf program, which compiles the bdf format (a simple and documented ascii text format describing bitmap fonts) to pcf (a compressed format the X server can load directly), < 1457220880 333291 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK < 1457220931 184350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The man page does not document the file format < 1457220945 977920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only specifies command-line options. < 1457220951 809966 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then putting the compiled pcf to a directory, running mkfontdir on that directory to generate an index file that indexes all the font files in the directory (so that X can find the right one without opening every file), and telling X to use or re-read the directory with xset < 1457220970 858571 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: (alternately, you can use font files on a remote machine with xfs, a tcp-based font server) < 1457221060 131657 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, you may want to configure fontconfig to use X bitmap fonts (some distributions configure it so it doesn't use them by default) and regenerating fontconfig's index of fonts with the fc-cache command, so that applications using fontconfig (often through a higher level library) which normally use TTF and OTF fonts can also use your X bitmap font transparently. < 1457221085 206517 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the font isn't found, you're stuck blindly debugging undebuggable stuff. < 1457221097 839272 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, I have a document of the bdf format somewhere, < 1457221129 56735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than Firefox, all of my programs could already use bitmap fonts, although I did manage to configure it so that Firefox can also use bitmap fonts < 1457221162 949935 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/font/5005.BDF_Spec.pdf < 1457221332 245084 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ah, I may have broken that. <-- it worked a day or so ago... < 1457221342 410170 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google qjkxbmwvz < 1457221343 358381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `search' failed with: connect: does not exist (No route to host) < 1457221367 906495 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, and the pcf output is binary and somewhat efficient, but isn't compressed, so you can optionally gzip-compress it to pcf.gz, and the X server will transparently zcat it when reading < 1457221384 742844 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google quantum < 1457221386 596539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.quantum.com/ < 1457221386 729865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Quantum Data Storage - Data Center and Scale-out Storage Solutions < 1457221417 822992 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you install the .pcf.gz to the font directory rather than the straight .pcf < 1457221441 625293 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it may just be for nonexisting results < 1457221445 891921 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google feiubrøogreøo < 1457221446 391780 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Result Found. < 1457221449 377952 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not. < 1457221489 461767 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google canada < 1457221490 829254 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada < 1457221498 324683 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, Canada exists. < 1457221524 318072 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask int-e why in the world does @google qjkxbmwvz fail when others work, including searches with no result... < 1457221524 451625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457221571 270318 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google yeti < 1457221573 364618 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://yeticoolers.com/ < 1457221573 497998 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: YETI Coolers- Premium Ice Chests, Apparel, and Gear < 1457221588 920004 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: DON < 1457221595 993224 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'T RUIN MY DEMONSTRATION < 1457221605 11905 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google cupachabra < 1457221605 818057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://id-id.facebook.com/WeAreBstarzLoveBastianBastianSteel/posts/504931756229719 < 1457221623 387775 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google xenu < 1457221624 71018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu < 1457221637 101798 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Xenu exists tdnh < 1457221657 347396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? weather < 1457221658 541880 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK < 1457221660 805992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : CYUL 052300Z 21007KT 15SM SCT150 SCT180 OVC240 M03/M11 A3019 RMK AC3AC1CI4 SLP227 \ ENVA 052320Z 07005KT 030V110 9999 FEW051 BKN064 01/M04 Q1006 RMK WIND 670FT 16012KT \ ESSB 052320Z AUTO 07004KT 9999 BKN007/// OVC010/// 00/M01 Q1008 \ KOAK 052253Z 15017G26KT 3SM -RA BKN023 OVC036 17/14 A2972 RMK AO2 PK WND 16028/2204 RAB2155 SLP063 P0001 < 1457221660 939387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :T01670139 < 1457221697 334206 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google S4ys9N66zps < 1457221697 790664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Result Found. < 1457221799 37139 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: T01670139 < 1457221799 234184 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... < 1457221812 695144 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GG? < 1457221816 307525 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1457221816 450680 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1457221830 921499 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1457221831 82048 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1457221843 679422 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was waaaay off... < 1457221850 630556 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style jargon < 1457221850 764170 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive) < 1457221857 335737 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nostril? < 1457221857 663061 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: perhaps i'll just keep telling yourself, jack. it should for a technical person to send me or this list any reasons. dont send me email or call me paranoid but finding '' characters. < 1457221870 577611 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: TDNH. < 1457221993 18590 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: well both GG and chrono trigger are epic steampunk fantasy < 1457222268 652257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: is UNIX-HATERS also epic steampunk fantasy? (hi fungot btw) < 1457222268 822681 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we should avoid the use of even believing that not only external symbol definitions in the environment string as the infamous jargon file shows up. < 1457222387 865696 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :he\\oren\. indeed. < 1457222414 14112 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/angband < 1457222420 792325 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas < 1457222534 266797 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/utumno < 1457222536 458792 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas < 1457222669 726817 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits orodruin < 1457222671 833046 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457222683 188252 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/orodruin < 1457222685 7206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas b_jonas < 1457223016 399542 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Horn is the reduction system behind prolog, and also the magical body part growing on the head of unicorns. < 1457223018 768300 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'horn': Horn is the reduction system behind prolog, and also the magical body part growing on the head of unicorns. < 1457223123 676060 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/enr* < 1457223124 930554 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/enrichment center \ wisdom/enrichment centre < 1457223144 268264 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/center/Center/' wisdom/enr* < 1457223147 48198 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457223178 106311 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed i 's/prolog/Prolog/' wisdom/horn < 1457223178 873988 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: -e expression #1, char 1: expected \ after `a', `c' or `i' < 1457223184 9255 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/prolog/Prolog/' wisdom/horn < 1457223186 6767 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457223188 152823 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord. < 1457223220 867382 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? horn < 1457223221 887357 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horn is the reduction system behind Prolog, and also the magical body part growing on the head of unicorns. < 1457223236 186492 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` head wi*/enr* < 1457223237 77596 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​==> wisdom/enrichment center <== \ The Enrichment Center regrets to inform you that this next test is impossible. \ \ ==> wisdom/enrichment centre <== \ The Enrichment Center regrets to inform you that this next test is impossible. < 1457223267 90487 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? char < 1457223268 2364 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :char? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457223295 123298 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? long < 1457223295 968014 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :long? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457223304 594385 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? irc < 1457223305 852282 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays. < 1457223322 383292 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Char is a prominent component of charcoal. < 1457223324 750724 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'char': Char is a prominent component of charcoal. < 1457223339 238260 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Long is the Chinese word for dragon. < 1457223341 903029 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'long': Long is the Chinese word for dragon. < 1457223362 82632 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is long double a chinese word for a multi-headed dragon then? < 1457223372 268628 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds plausible < 1457223381 638770 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how about long long? < 1457223398 995208 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? auto < 1457223399 986369 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457223400 308732 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for -bl- being pretty much impossible phonologically. < 1457223414 218655 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? constexpr < 1457223415 79861 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :constexpr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457223423 507304 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zkstr < 1457223424 418740 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zkstr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457223456 727786 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Auto is the German word for car. < 1457223458 978447 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'auto': Auto is the German word for car. < 1457223493 249435 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Zkstr is Georgian for "Ow my tongue!" < 1457223497 370730 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'zkstr': Zkstr is Georgian for "Ow my tongue!" < 1457223516 514414 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it might just be czech. < 1457223526 730136 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Zkstr is Czech for "Ow my tongue!" < 1457223529 342517 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'zkstr': Zkstr is Czech for "Ow my tongue!" < 1457223537 355642 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! wait < 1457223544 590604 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to add one for zkstr < 1457223563 30703 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO AHEAD < 1457223605 381120 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457223651 1512 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn zkstr is a common consonent cluster at the start of Russian words, see eg. http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/metro-typo-2 < 1457223653 710656 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'zkstr': zkstr is a common consonent cluster at the start of Russian words, see eg. http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/metro-typo-2 < 1457223678 454914 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/nent/nant/' wisdom/zkstr < 1457223681 187861 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457223701 374036 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah, zkstr. :D < 1457223732 307315 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: is that meant to be rotated that way < 1457223743 627313 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, I was probably just lazy to unrotate it < 1457223757 857491 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, you're just experiencing life sideways. < 1457223763 698580 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZWSTR is something else though, compared with zkstr, I suppose < 1457223775 150152 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the actual sign is upright < 1457223787 990821 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: https://xkcd.com/417/ < 1457223834 749917 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZWSTR is Z-machine character packing. < 1457223858 56379 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh! it sounded like a macro from related to wide character strings < 1457223862 137446 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i take it it's э typoed as з < 1457223866 730081 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1457223871 893515 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's also another typo on the same sign < 1457223897 989294 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int < 1457223899 290707 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457223907 57487 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me unrotate it though < 1457223923 797329 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what should be an int? < 1457223939 458683 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on, lambdabot < 1457223945 269990 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, no new messages < 1457223950 323905 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: A double. < 1457223958 120125 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavellon[1]. < 1457223961 116599 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrellop. eh? < 1457223970 14122 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahoily < 1457224048 84519 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emojicode is kind of stupid < 1457224064 641874 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just treats emoji as a special kind of name, like a noob < 1457224065 221824 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: That's what should be an int. < 1457224135 515102 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: what should be an int? <-- i dunno < 1457224164 746687 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep: but a double is fundamentally different from an int! it's just wrong to conflagrate them together. < 1457224166 823721 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders
< 1457224172 594503 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :done: rotated, also made smaller < 1457224264 850477 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well if there's another typo, i don't know enough of the language to see it. < 1457224265 952755 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: It's wrong to large and destructive fire them together? < 1457224329 390825 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I see your point. Perhaps 4. 4 is meant to be an int. < 1457224333 581288 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/conf* < 1457224334 778094 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access wisdom/conf*: No such file or directory < 1457224343 468912 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1457224351 432070 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/con* < 1457224352 435024 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/conspirabiology \ wisdom/context < 1457224360 59235 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :where was it again... < 1457224365 74003 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? szoup < 1457224366 160973 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. < 1457224396 976049 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i suspect "secour" might not be correct < 1457224435 214946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1457224486 291745 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep: found it! ↓ < 1457224490 752423 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? disflagrate < 1457224492 499079 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized. < 1457224513 695870 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ints and doubles should be disflagrated. < 1457224528 402527 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 is an int. fungot is a double. < 1457224528 604222 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: you obviously aren't sufficiently infused with the red ip packets. but that's ok, i won't even be done. thanks, folks, < 1457224558 495137 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives boily some extra red IP packets to infuse themselves with
< 1457224587 787987 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget the blue screws if anything happens < 1457224599 426943 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elephant < 1457224600 317780 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elephant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224600 549879 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? seal < 1457224601 305337 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224609 279001 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tail < 1457224610 233726 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224610 440350 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? head < 1457224611 368149 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :head? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224612 195534 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elephant seal < 1457224613 97898 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elephant seal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224620 835707 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? unicorn < 1457224621 592399 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicorn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224623 831968 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pony < 1457224624 760830 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pony? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224627 774342 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1457224635 76590 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ?` < 1457224636 21374 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224646 455723 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bill < 1457224647 426528 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bill? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224647 779255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? coin < 1457224648 558484 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224652 813722 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coin < 1457224653 489295 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: coin: not found < 1457224654 823032 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1457224660 758104 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever write or contribute to a roguelike, there'll be a Red Ip Infusion. it'll make you mutate into a fungotlike creature. < 1457224660 909789 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: however, gives me a couple of large mailing lists have you noticed that ordinarily reasonably people these days... < 1457224672 711153 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you should http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/d4b6d8a299e9/wisdom hth < 1457224682 80364 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​09epipcoin 02relycoin 06fronncoin 13rutcndejxcoin 04verservocoin 07alcecoin 08lazycoin 09(())coin 02retercardcoin 06yabecoin 13hackicoin 04vercoin 07ranslawcoin 08coropiccoin 09exisablecoin 02rocerylovcoin 06fannahcoin 13whitethattcoin 04novicoin 07pogancoin < 1457224702 199621 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I might try to write my "ultimate solution" for BFJoust again. < 1457224709 284112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pdp endian < 1457224712 938910 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? endian < 1457224713 72284 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdp endian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224713 669363 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :endian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224723 785112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: good luck for that :-) < 1457224731 260467 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bswap < 1457224731 593797 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultimately, BFJoust programs are deterministic. < 1457224732 38869 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bswap? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224732 702037 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1457224798 392031 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? php endian < 1457224799 366368 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :php endian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457224824 854601 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan < 1457224826 279339 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your famous mysterious evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. < 1457224844 443875 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1457224845 894743 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend also making up some roguelike game. Some of my ideas include that the stairs can only go one way, that different kind of character configurations have different high score menus, and that you can switch the display between ASCII and VT100 mode (so that you can use ASCII mode when you want to print or put in a text file or webpage or whatever when VT100 is not supported) < 1457224857 13546 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly can be written in JavaScript. < 1457224904 456806 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? submarine < 1457224905 522978 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :submarine is the same as suburban... except for bodies of ocean water instead of cities. < 1457224919 578098 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/s/S/' wisdom/submarine < 1457224922 813607 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457224947 532260 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like these ideas? In the original "Rogue" game, the stairs can only go one way (even though the commands for stairs go both ways) < 1457224957 320683 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zgrep: you think php endian is overdoing the evil? < 1457224959 251526 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haagen dazs has a special limited edition peppermint white chocolate flavor < 1457224982 270928 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: one way stairs are nice. not sure about what you mean by high score menus? < 1457225106 979768 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/elendil < 1457225109 808539 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas < 1457225129 532480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1457225131 573493 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :russell's teapot/Russell's Teapot / Short and stout / Orbits near Mars / Or thereabout. / If you see it / Let us know / If you don't / What does that show? < 1457225144 54570 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tempted to change `learn etc. to say whether the file was previously existing. except that would be work.
< 1457225166 700547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/learn < 1457225168 533960 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/learn < 1457225175 507920 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-235.rentec.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457225200 515526 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-235.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457225213 310806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I mean once the game end it calculate the score (based on what dungeon level you reached as well as other things) and then add it to the high score menu in the proper position, but you can add separate high score menu also for different kind of player characters, since they can involve different tactics, special abilities, carrying capacity, and so on < 1457225252 909707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: All the work is editing through this scow HackEgo interface. < 1457225258 919599 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: makes sense tdh < 1457225331 808064 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: couldn't you just edit it offline and then make a patchfile? < 1457225339 487739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then what? < 1457225347 892493 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/elrond < 1457225350 85412 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique prooftechnique < 1457225351 539080 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then use patch < 1457225397 682805 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need patch, just `fetch and cp < 1457225438 268084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ahve `fetch then you don't need patch. < 1457225443 494689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does `fetch work? < 1457225446 413193 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1457225455 47585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it broken in the past? < 1457225463 981705 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i recall < 1457225498 628538 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's wget/curl etc. that are broken because they're inside the sandbox < 1457225560 507801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1457225628 673631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $'3i\n[ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Learned" || verb="Relearned"\n.\n5s/Learned/$verb/\nw\n' | ed bin/learn < 1457225631 869549 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :148 \ 207 < 1457225677 318484 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please test twh < 1457225688 729410 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/learn < 1457225689 365993 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Learned" || verb="Relearned" \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1" < 1457225717 914582 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? test < 1457225718 918767 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. < 1457225727 149504 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? testing < 1457225728 921727 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457225736 606922 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Testing is expensive. < 1457225741 673164 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'testing': Testing is expensive. < 1457225747 255460 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Testing is expensive and overrated. < 1457225747 677426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1457225749 648111 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'testing': Testing is expensive and overrated. < 1457225753 220757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I mixed them up. < 1457225757 571002 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIT OF A SWITCH < 1457225760 334651 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing is definitely overrated. < 1457225915 986200 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're waiting for me to fix it. < 1457225934 869321 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wondering how you swap two words with sed < 1457225940 263269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also wondering. < 1457225950 305765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just cheat. < 1457225952 32771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $'3s/Relearned/Learned/\n3s/Learned/Relearned/\nw\n' | ed bin/learn < 1457225954 296982 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :207 \ 207 \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" < 1457225966 344171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/learn < 1457225966 992998 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1" < 1457225994 431467 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how did that work. < 1457226001 547062 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1457226004 652021 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/// only switches the first occurrence without /g < 1457226033 428164 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Testing is expensive, overrated and annoying. < 1457226036 72552 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'testing': Testing is expensive, overrated and annoying. < 1457226044 511303 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget testing < 1457226046 776065 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1457226054 676208 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Testing might eventually succeed. < 1457226057 229063 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'testing': Testing might eventually succeed. < 1457226123 422801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now that wasn't so hard was it < 1457226132 324273 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION presents shachaf with the Delegate of the Month award (in pewter)
< 1457226145 22936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what, you think this was free? < 1457226147 197341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you owe me one now < 1457226180 41262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want is a script that looks at the hg log and tells you what the last file that was modified was. < 1457226214 677915 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg --help | paste < 1457226219 838197 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.20546 < 1457226252 857013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, someone (b_jonas?) figured out a way easier way to do `culprits. < 1457226258 452427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can give hg log a format argument. < 1457226274 414950 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm. < 1457226280 104928 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg log --help | paste < 1457226283 555433 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.16400 < 1457226423 548222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode - < 1457226424 981450 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+002D HYPHEN-MINUS] < 1457226431 656234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode FIGURE DASH < 1457226432 542445 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​‒ < 1457226535 929924 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg log -l 1 < 1457226537 75718 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset: 7127:4f71d933f13e \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Mar 06 01:04:25 2016 +0000 \ summary: ` hg log --help | paste < 1457226556 560323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n" < 1457226557 632915 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste/paste.16400 < 1457226562 581917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx tdh < 1457226602 995391 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/lastfiles//hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n" < 1457226606 132950 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/lastfiles < 1457226610 627250 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lastfiles < 1457226613 956670 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/lastfiles < 1457226651 971035 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo test >a; echo test >b < 1457226654 221177 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457226655 865053 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lastfiles < 1457226657 75297 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b < 1457226680 355513 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm a b < 1457226681 67189 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `a b': No such file or directory < 1457226684 576214 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm a b < 1457226686 883527 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457226695 781077 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits a; culprits b < 1457226697 435597 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457226709 103823 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1457226712 632465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fool me twice -- you can't get fooled again < 1457226715 327342 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits a < 1457226717 531346 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan oerjan oerjan int-e fizzie oerjan elliott blotter guestbot guestbot ThatOtherPerson ThatOtherPerson < 1457226726 69806 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1457226730 727412 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits b < 1457226732 649086 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan oerjan oerjan Jafet < 1457226740 276031 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1457226786 748013 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok they weren't already existing < 1457227001 264668 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok now write something useful with it < 1457227004 851105 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think the repository browser has changed, now it autoloads more commits when i get to the end < 1457227021 816601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a command that lets you sed or rele/rn the lastfile < 1457227123 205355 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1457227132 941597 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457227296 526748 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457227328 765810 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should < 1457227344 987234 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integrate a few more clever strategies into Nyuroki < 1457227351 137692 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some optimization can be done. < 1457227876 546756 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457228306 491150 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? guard < 1457228307 499293 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guards are immune to electricity. They're humans in rubber pig suits. They're insulated. < 1457228320 7646 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/ / /g' wisdom/guard < 1457228322 782160 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457228832 491725 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki http://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/ee20dff3277b873dc9db288ed94d0a7a234da3c7.bf < 1457228834 628565 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: URL fetch problems: redirection forbidden: http://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/ee20dff3277b873dc9db288ed94d0a7a234da3c7.bf -> https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/ee20dff3277b873dc9db288ed94d0a7a234da3c7.bf < 1457228841 307158 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/ee20dff3277b873dc9db288ed94d0a7a234da3c7.bf < 1457228843 378438 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 9.07, score 30.37, rank 6/47 (-3) < 1457228924 609588 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/6412212ffb16b73f794dd3618505fc2327197571.bf < 1457228925 400339 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 9.07, score 30.37, rank 6/47 (-3) < 1457228944 219462 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Lymia/JoustExt/master/examples/nyuroki-esoteric.bf < 1457228944 860044 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 13.43, score 37.40, rank 3/47 (--) < 1457228994 326697 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/5a0374d9319002dc5622e6b104165f08dc6964e2.bf < 1457228995 123415 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 13.48, score 37.49, rank 3/47 (--) < 1457229019 297708 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/43bd79e53928002bf3d7aab81586842ea19bb80d.bf < 1457229020 89133 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 13.45, score 37.30, rank 3/47 (--) < 1457229069 349883 :cyyyyyyyyy!508b669e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.80.139.102.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457229078 42737 :cyyyyyyyyy!508b669e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.80.139.102.158 PART :#esoteric < 1457229165 201505 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/afef3d2374d3eb83d7c2066ede331d7c3c500b9d.bf < 1457229167 415181 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 10.50, score 32.55, rank 6/47 (-3) < 1457229199 819529 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1457229205 477273 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :craziest cpu idea yet < 1457229248 563429 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory addresses are remaped in chunks of 4k according to a page table < 1457229256 539871 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is how a standard mmu works) < 1457229262 185459 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only for data, not instructions < 1457229460 323469 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/d1bb3b65edb4bbbc3853214c80ed371b7eb0a039.bf < 1457229463 184260 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 13.36, score 37.16, rank 3/47 (--) < 1457229493 911741 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest nyuroki https://paste.lymia.moe/lymia/fa117cd7cf6ea372d1b3b3ef49417ae9803a6c1c.bf < 1457229495 651931 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 12.86, score 36.50, rank 3/47 (--) < 1457229532 711630 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1457229535 298201 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to PM < 1457229618 226293 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457229883 760807 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457230226 388122 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently a lot of people abused the size of my wiggle clear. < 1457230230 611701 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, offset clear* < 1457230328 926481 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457230368 175691 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: And what does that get you? < 1457230405 453534 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457230968 386995 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes one less TLB on the chip... I guess < 1457232042 298029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: programs tend to special-case against good programs accidentally < 1457232047 997945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as people experiment with values to see what happens < 1457232061 157596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you beat the worse programs anyway, so the constants tend to match up well against the better ones < 1457232875 242859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457233112 641193 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1457233132 579170 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457233348 963146 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYQB < 1457233349 218315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYQB 060200Z 17004KT 15SM SCT054 M09/M16 A3018 RMK SC3 SLP228 < 1457233448 953843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le//rn te/st//Directories are expensive. < 1457233451 797104 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «te/st» < 1457233458 536993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lastfiles < 1457233460 694444 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/te/st < 1457233466 317036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1457233475 129311 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that wouldn't work as intended. < 1457233490 406624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm wisdom/te/st; rmdir wisdom/te < 1457233492 654590 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457233498 86939 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan thinks of everything < 1457233544 389812 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457233557 830907 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zhill nyuroki https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Lymia/JoustExt/master/examples/nyuroki-esoteric.bf < 1457233562 936348 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYQB < 1457233563 196516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYQB 060200Z 17004KT 15SM SCT054 M09/M16 A3018 RMK SC3 SLP228 < 1457233573 99933 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh. I want my new metar! < 1457233591 200764 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, just done playing my first game of Ashes. quite a good game! < 1457233600 287689 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust nyuroki https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Lymia/JoustExt/master/examples/nyuroki-esoteric.bf < 1457233600 740258 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 18.79, score 49.46, rank 2/47 (+1) < 1457233686 690148 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457233724 246234 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alejandro15: buenas tardes. < 1457233736 339757 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYQB < 1457233736 605412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYQB 060300Z 18003KT 15SM BKN048 M08/M16 A3017 RMK SC7 SLP225 < 1457233757 953388 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan thinks of everything <-- well, there's an obvious weakness remaining. < 1457233784 761707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which weakness? < 1457233797 938329 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457233818 544193 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :como esta boily < 1457233840 343870 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot distinguish a commit that creates several files from one that creates a file with spaces in its name < 1457233870 254077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's space-separated. < 1457233875 827037 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newline terminates commits. < 1457233887 62288 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*edits < 1457233888 673346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bienvenido Alejandro15 < 1457233890 375306 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alejandro15: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.) < 1457233955 417809 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alejandro15: un poco cansado... ¿y tu? < 1457233970 870129 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nyuroki https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Lymia/JoustExt/master/examples/nyuroki-esoteric.bf < 1457233973 342303 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_nyuroki: 6.4 < 1457233975 779816 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that bot still alive < 1457233976 947143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats Lymia, just saw you move up to #2 < 1457233982 50084 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bien < 1457233987 647016 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wut < 1457233990 366899 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alejandro15: ¿eres de venezuela? < 1457234010 663241 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuh < 1457234022 480943 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nyuroki http://raw.githubusercontent.com/Lymia/JoustExt/master/examples/nyuroki-esoteric.bf < 1457234025 89607 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_nyuroki: 6.3 < 1457234030 653841 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1457234064 171700 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: what's the problem? EgoBot's unhalpful output? < 1457234069 267152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: hmm, the report is contradicting the breakdown < 1457234072 431246 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :si < 1457234074 696421 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help bfjoust < 1457234074 870075 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for bfjoust! < 1457234083 803200 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot thinks my program is - < 1457234088 769512 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1457234088 952770 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1457234090 314832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, perhaps not < 1457234093 693930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a parse error < 1457234096 429229 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nyuroki http://pastebin.com/raw/b0MEJFpT < 1457234099 50135 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_nyuroki: 52.6 < 1457234102 47110 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1457234104 121968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: aha, it must have parsed the hyphen in the URL < 1457234113 413266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats on #1 :-) < 1457234126 741009 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alejandro15: discúlpeme, no sé hablar español muy bien... mi lengua materna es el francés. < 1457234146 833389 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1457234154 905933 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that hill fish in a barrel :p < 1457234155 253037 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :beuh... < 1457234161 566222 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at least, he spoke! < 1457234191 13134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you change the strategy significantly? or did you just tweak numbers? < 1457234223 225879 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: good show < 1457234242 312984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if it was a large change you'd probably change the name < 1457234252 743625 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly tweaked numbers. < 1457234256 821106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :margins3 is similar to margins, but it's also different in a lot of major ways (e.g. it does a fast rush on short tapes) < 1457234260 430589 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also leaves a trail always now, not only on cells it cleared < 1457234286 965539 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "tweaked numbers", I mean "tweaked a single number". < 1457234327 544606 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just you wait. he'll be back. (probably against his own volition; I wouldn't be surprised there's a default autojoin list for his client) < 1457234369 95798 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try a defense program next, maybe? < 1457234395 913279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be hard, but perhaps possible < 1457234407 673223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the codepaths in margins3 runs purely against defence programs < 1457234420 581855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was hard to beat them all even though I knew for a fact the opponent was defence and/or very slow < 1457234444 373772 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457234444 507270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bit of the code that runs only if the opponent is actively adjusting the current cell, and winning in all situations from there is painful < 1457234470 671212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end I did the same thing as in preparation except 3- rather than 2-cycle, it works quite well < 1457234485 224914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, in Chu spaces you have points : 1 -> A and copoints : A -> _|_ < 1457234488 315612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so reasonable. < 1457234489 969660 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that bit of code work anyway? < 1457234520 957771 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Nyuroki, anything complex I tried worked worse than the dead simple thing I do. < 1457234524 441466 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457234543 801133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: which bit of the code? defence detection? defence clear? < 1457234559 728965 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearing versus something that's actively changing its flag. < 1457234577 119018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just set the cell I'm on to all 256 possible values < 1457234585 309786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't hit zero there are shenanigans going on < 1457234612 262005 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUGH < 1457234633 261139 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pitched up too much and accidentally flew into space < 1457234659 753135 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: KSP? < 1457234680 208559 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean the code you called "golden ratio based clear" < 1457234688 610548 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457234696 674650 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely don't understand what it's doing. < 1457234712 410212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a normal clear loop but it changes polarity and/or direction every n cycles, where n is the length of time it naturally takes to clear a cell times the golden ratio < 1457234750 238942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that if the opponent is locking without changing the cell's value over time, I'm guaranteed to hit the pessimal value for the opposition eventually (as I try every polarity and position modulo the clear loop interval) < 1457234781 159161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the opponent is changing the value over time, I hit the pessimal starting value for the opposition eventually via starting at a different value each time < 1457234786 5917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, at least < 1457234788 378945 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you lock and change the value over time? < 1457234805 515902 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a smart way to achieve that. < 1457234829 677943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one simple lock algorithm is ((+)*128(.)*128)*-1 < 1457234836 300936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll lock many sorts of two-cycle clear < 1457234844 78113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it changes the value by +128 every 256 cycles < 1457234859 951868 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably something like +((+)*128(.)*128)*-1? < 1457234875 868419 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be worried about that bit of parity < 1457234887 635541 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where there's some "starting values" where you kill yourself. < 1457234908 281162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, you can't do that by itself < 1457234915 342018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only once you know the opponent is there, or if you adjust the flag first < 1457234923 828893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is, assuming you're locking the flag < 1457234927 492909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two ways you can do locks < 1457234934 61186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the flag, which has the advantage that the opponent might fall off < 1457234956 460069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in front of the flag, which has the disadvantage that the opponent might fall through, but the advantage that if the cell's zeroed for two cycles (and the opponent doesn't spot it) you don't lose < 1457234991 91611 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything "smart" I tried for Nyuroki worked worse than the "brain dead" thing I do now. < 1457234999 932940 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: EVOCATIVE CHICKEN < 1457235024 881371 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I check a cell twice before moving on to the next one, so I don't get bitten by something like (+)*127(-+)*-1 < 1457235058 463661 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, in the actual clear loop, I do a 2-cycle clear for 1000 cycles, and if that fails, move on to a 5-cycle clear. If that fails, I just assume I'm not on the flag because apparently that works better. < 1457235167 93922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried something like that for margins3 first < 1457235179 630766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort-of worked but I could never get a clean sweep against defence programs < 1457235194 42926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was always one that seemed to hold out (not necessarily the same one, although shudderlock was a big offender) < 1457235212 438299 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never paid much attention to which programs did what. ^.^ < 1457235216 573606 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess I should look that up sometime. < 1457235221 430242 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457235299 669560 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should try to integrate that golden ratio clear myself sometime. < 1457235317 271048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a lot of space in the program < 1457235333 279935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not even 100% sure it works mathematically, although it seems to work in practice < 1457235337 939442 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1457235357 578871 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first instinct is to do something with prime numbers personally < 1457235388 258645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 256 is coprime with everything that isn't a power of 2 < 1457235440 107362 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :My intuition was that if a clear cycle and a defense cycle had coprime lengths, you get every "alignment" between them eventually. < 1457235493 507107 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, say, if there's an +- in a defense loop, and -+ in an clear loop with a length coprime to it, both would eventually execute at the same time. And they'd die. < 1457235521 78750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some defence loops that work against any integer-sized clear, with an appropriate alignment < 1457235538 843983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+)*256(.)*256, for example, will lock [(.)*x+] for any x < 1457235548 832678 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457235563 627870 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even clears like, say, [-.-+]? < 1457235569 490948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that's less than 128, I think < 1457235640 364416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that won't be locked on the flag (it can get two zeroes), but will be locked elsewhere (the locking program can't detect two zeroes), so long as the cycles line up correctly < 1457235648 647970 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1457235696 70577 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. So it'll work assuming you're actually on the flag. (and only then, unfortunately) < 1457235719 652921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the hardest part of attacking into defence programs < 1457235724 424520 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the defense loop doesn't have a factor of 5, I suppose. < 1457235726 704901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is someting that margins exploits < 1457235743 521720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a defence pattern that makes it impossible for the opponents to observe two zeroes in a row < 1457235755 793793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eventually they have to take a leap of faith and move on < 1457235766 221627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point it shudders the flag in the hope that the opponent will do it again < 1457235793 923901 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457236002 737954 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457236050 23117 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1457236085 504705 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457236132 737839 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea that you could have a clear loop like [-.+.--++-++-] (length 13) < 1457236132 871207 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it does every possible 2 instruction sequence of cell changes, it should be able to clear (on the flag) any defense program with a coprime defense loop length. < 1457236132 871287 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure how practical it'd actuall be < 1457236133 581732 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually* < 1457236134 649241 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... being able to make it impossible to observe two zeros in a row is actually pretty nasty. < 1457236183 908737 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means there's ultimately no safe option to attack. < 1457236209 140604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1457236216 160754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the downside for margins is that it also means that it can't attack itself < 1457236224 235808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's devoting every cycle to merely drawing < 1457236260 480059 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457236264 310225 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see an alternative hill < 1457236275 508515 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That counts a draw as both programs losing, maybe? < 1457236278 609375 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does zim do that? < 1457236284 96787 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :zem* < 1457236320 134453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :egojoust is much more draw-hostile than zemhill < 1457236342 29675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like draws not being penalised much, though, because it makes programs like margins (which aim to win short tapes and draw long ones) possible < 1457236362 229537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, the tradeoffs margins needs to make just to aim for its draw means that its strategy isn't broken < 1457236374 109515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it's doing well is mostly a symptom of opponents not caring about short tapes < 1457236383 101741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has been a trend in the BF Joust metagame for ages now < 1457236412 80782 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't? < 1457236412 912190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most of your games will be on long tapes so those make sense to focus on) < 1457236425 975511 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that also makes sense to explain why Nyuroki does well < 1457236442 492053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :preparation sets ten decoys < 1457236447 43982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it autoloses on tape length 10 < 1457236450 455806 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it sees any non-zero cell while setting decoys, it immediately jumps to the main clear. < 1457236478 883814 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, well. < 1457236487 87522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, interesting < 1457236495 867592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can think of a program that does that, but it makes a lot of sense < 1457236503 564550 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a short tape, and the opponent is setting decoys, you've probably just bypassed their decoys. < 1457236508 327675 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are on their flag while they're setting decoys. < 1457236511 838742 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a good look for them. < 1457236530 27494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you set decoys forwards or backwards? < 1457236548 464329 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backwards. < 1457236574 870353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the opponent's decoy setup is inside yours, you notice < 1457236576 946129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's clever < 1457236679 470040 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : the other day you were asking for alternative cpu designs? < 1457236703 509419 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have such a design : an out-of-order VLIW < 1457236719 704485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457236731 238454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that just redundant, or does it have some advantage? < 1457236744 561407 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the front end is a VLIW where you fetch a whole instrction cache line every cycle < 1457236766 628778 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "execute" it in one go < 1457236815 558134 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the "execution" in one go is only the register renaming and scheduling to make the calculations runnable out-of-order < 1457236834 316361 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1457236841 657586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I just noticed some old code that never runs got into margins3 < 1457236843 868920 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right. Is that new(ish?)? < 1457236844 292321 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once the calculations are done, then the retirment is also 1 large op per cycle < 1457236857 147543 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the op format is weird: < 1457236866 282177 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought checking before planting decoys was something others have done before. < 1457236895 806310 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each VLIW bundle takes up 16 bytes and has 8 micro-ops in it < 1457236901 549282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that's today's winner < 1457236937 479080 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also got a shameless piece of metagaming < 1457236942 778840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust margins3 http://nethack4.org/esolangs/margins3.bfjoust < 1457236947 596356 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_margins3: 24.2 < 1457236950 686514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust margins3 http://nethack4.org/esolangs/margins3.bfjoust < 1457236952 269531 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.margins3: points 10.88, score 52.78, rank 1/47 (--) < 1457236958 217744 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since pretty much everything sets decoys, I skip straight to cell 14 if I don't see any decoys < 1457236963 741034 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :micro-ops consist of stuff like: mov register/immediate into accumulator, add/sub/and/or/xor/shr/shl/sar accumulator value by register/immediate, store accumulator in register < 1457236969 245508 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is, is it new to check for decoys before planting your own? < 1457236988 786681 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an instruction is something like: < 1457237062 1351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I did was deleted the dead code to clean up the "published" version a bit < 1457237066 487601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: inside your own decoy setup, I think so < 1457237074 161338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are programs that check for enemy clears inside their own setup < 1457237075 125903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, http://chu.stanford.edu/PrattSRMK2016.pdf (slide 12) shows a way to present adjointness as associativity. Is there anywhere else that comes up? Maybe in the context of regular adjunctions? < 1457237081 133469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not that check for enemy decoys, intentionally at least < 1457237086 260146 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1457237092 530436 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld ac, r1; sub ac, r0; mul ac, r2; sar ac, 16; add ac, r0; store r1, ac < 1457237099 604927 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 1 opcode < 1457237121 925842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependency analysis on ac is going to be a nightmare, surely? < 1457237123 832780 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes 4+ cycles to execute (due to the dependencies) < 1457237129 311966 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have too many operations in one bundle, to where most programs can't use them all < 1457237140 854457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asuming the OOE thing resolves it, but it's going to be a lot of work < 1457237148 579550 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes this HAS to be OOE < 1457237152 326198 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that stress the code cache? < 1457237155 21154 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a trick < 1457237158 684318 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1457237176 170490 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the benefit over a non-VLIW instruction set that does OOE. < 1457237186 265747 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically each instruction is loaded into an execution unit and the execution unit has its own accumulator and runs the operations one by one < 1457237199 930009 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually it doesn't have to rename the accumulator < 1457237222 122053 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next instruction is forced to wipe out the accumulator in its first instruction so there can be no dependency < 1457237311 782882 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that might explain the #1 then. I didn't realize checking for enemy decoys (a proxy indicator of being on a short tape) was anything that hadn't be done before. < 1457237333 568102 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction format limits the number of register stores per instruction so that it the target registers can be renamed in 1 cycle < 1457237341 16821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't realise you were doing it, presumably because you assumed it was nothing special < 1457237371 719668 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's like if you had an OOO cpu but when instructions go into an ALU they execute a whole bunch of stuff sequentially in that ALU < 1457237395 263941 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on the final microop the accumulator value of that ALU is stored back to the register file < 1457237407 501877 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sent to the memory store queue < 1457237455 37162 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason it's organized this way is that this reduces the number of write and read ports on your register files a lot < 1457237509 983603 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of needing a register rename and writeback on each value add/shift/etc in a chain of computation, you only have one rename and one writeback at the end of the chain < 1457237577 259852 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also why I started with short decoys instead of vice versa < 1457237625 725226 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld ac, r1; sub ac, r0; mul ac, r2; sar ac, 16; add ac, r0; store r1, ac reads 4 times from the register file and writes 1 time only; the equivalent RISC sequence does 7 reads and 4 writes < 1457237650 194044 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457237684 732416 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you start a chain of computation, then you also need much less ressources to calculate the inter instruction dependencies < 1457237706 652042 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you just execute 1 instruction per cycle on every dependency chain < 1457237719 628613 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the instruction format separates the dependency chains for you < 1457237733 815595 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I knew a HDL < 1457237743 162858 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning verilog < 1457237760 219879 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because it's kinda like c++ :D < 1457237768 842761 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of being... strange like VHDL < 1457237813 74131 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another way of putting it is < 1457237822 346675 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a RISC, but add an accumulator < 1457237845 170667 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every instruction writes the result to both the accumulator, and optionally another register as well < 1457237853 412193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verilog's more like a scripting language, really < 1457237859 603 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe I should it into the wiki page? < 1457237870 850821 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily find the dependency chains in the instruction stream: < 1457237881 706642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: good idea; you're not editing the 2015/2016 sections (which I'm editing atm) so there shouldn't be a conflict < 1457237891 400414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although make sure you use a section edit rather than editing the whole page < 1457237892 849680 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time you see an instruction that DOESN't have the accumulator in its input, it's the start of the chain < 1457237926 825807 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the instruction stream becomes < 1457237965 792645 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[startofchain modifyaccum modifyaccum modifyaccum modifyaccumandwritebacktosomeregister startofchain modifyaccum modifyaccumandwritebacktosomeregister] < 1457237995 456440 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can issue both "startofchain" instructions at the same time < 1457237997 176694 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it should count as defense or attack. < 1457238016 659025 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'effect' is to detect short tapes when you have decoys < 1457238025 823124 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then let the 2 concerned units run the other instructions in the chain one after another until the writeback instruction at the end < 1457238075 525423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it's synchronization < 1457238078 152743 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cost is that every input register other than the accumulator must be renamed first before any instruction downstream can run < 1457238095 713154 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :from then on, register renaming is sufficient to solve all your dependencies < 1457238095 846470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a method of figuring what the opponent is doing, but doesn't do anything to prevent it in its own right < 1457238103 79168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just allows you to come up with a better strategy < 1457238113 39068 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence it's an OOO-VLIW < 1457238115 48221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to counter the opponent's technique < 1457238129 968003 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLIW because you issue a whole bunch of stuff to do together in one go < 1457238135 925067 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I used it in nyuroki, I'm not quite countering the opponent's technique at all. < 1457238158 94684 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOO because the individual sub components are reordered and all registers are renamed < 1457238158 952957 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, I'm taking advantage of the opponent's behavior to detect short tapes. < 1457238218 361418 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's trying to have the benefits of OOO-RISC (flexible execution order, can execute past a data cache miss) without the downsides (too many register writes and renames every cycle) < 1457238270 555113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: err, right < 1457238302 520348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is similar to the way growth2 often figures out the exact length of the tape via observing the opponent's clear pattern and guessing rule of nine < 1457238318 500390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind-of scary seeing it rush right to the opponent's flag, ignoring all decoys, and clearing it < 1457238329 160169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's synchronization too < 1457238335 256240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe we should rename the section < 1457238339 316327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"intelligence", perhaps < 1457238352 960566 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Infer information from the opponent's behavior"? < 1457238397 236345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be a single word really, if we're talking about the section that currently discusses tripwires < 1457238459 774866 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article says "At times you may want to use some behavior that depends on you being in lockstep with your opponent, like the "Lock" strategy above. The way to do this is generally with tripwires:" to explain the section right now. < 1457238489 434116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, we should probably generalize it < 1457238489 771600 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What'd cover behavior like assuming rule of nine, or decoys behind yours as well as synchronization? < 1457238491 774188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given how short it is < 1457238508 554147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps "reconnaisance" < 1457238526 342321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming I've spelled that correctly < 1457238549 288401 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like Synchronization might still work as its own section. It's pretty specific, instead of "branching" to different strategies, so to speak. < 1457238569 261316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are quite a lot of programs that branch based on tripwires < 1457238575 779748 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And breadcrumb decoys is in "defense", which is similar in concept. < 1457238596 381262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most poke programs have some sort of fast rush detection nowadays < 1457238610 260364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otherwise fast rush would do a lot better than it currently does!) < 1457238868 550307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457239059 574161 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip ais < 1457239333 818734 :treaki__!~treaki@p5B11CAD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457239459 467445 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-235.rentec.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457239464 903249 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lymia 5* 10New user account < 1457239547 620238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457239564 473427 :treaki_!~treaki@p5B11C8F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457239571 949107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1457239578 995193 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip ais x2 < 1457239581 621711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457239589 572173 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully no rip ais x3 < 1457239595 578474 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-237.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457239609 311665 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust strategies14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46497&oldid=43127 5* 03Ais523 5* (+7937) 10/* 2016 */ new section :-) < 1457239614 972963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it'll happen 521 more times hth < 1457239621 78419 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1457239645 427020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's how margins3 works < 1457239650 623040 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457239658 717978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like I wrote quite a lot about it < 1457239663 810888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's conceptually not that complex < 1457239694 547273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So natural transformations are homotopies : C x 2 -> D < 1457239706 35032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come no one uses that definition or even talks about it? < 1457239903 623867 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457240081 927007 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46498&oldid=46486 5* 03Luis Mendo 5* (+11) 10Added link to MATL < 1457240370 774955 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hrm. I wonder if ].] would be useful against something like margin's lock? < 1457240632 842261 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh, I see. < 1457240642 944954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On some TV/VCR/DVD?whatever you cannot use the numbers for anything other than the channel and track number you cannot select from menu or time or whatever, but I can suggest a much better way. Numbers by itself means nothing but most commands can accept numeric prefixes (if you use vi then you can know it is similar) and some commands can accept numeric suffixes for variant of the command too. < 1457240658 47377 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the problem margin has with nyuroki is that it leaves a size 1 trail, screwing up the tripwire, right? < 1457240662 440374 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that common behavior too? < 1457240665 875961 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example if you want to record for thirty minutes and then stop you can push 3 0 REC or you can push REC 3 0 DELAY STOP and either way would work. < 1457240696 895241 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you push REC by itself then it won't stop until you push STOP or if the tape runs out) < 1457240730 159120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: so most programs work on the assumption that the opponent is already at their first few decoys, due to rushing and/or poking < 1457240740 455520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as such, a trail wouldn't help and just slows you down < 1457240746 788806 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1457240749 652449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've found that even a small trail can be surprisingly helpful sometimes < 1457240763 217738 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it just because it was easier to code that way < 1457240792 480389 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you working on the strategies page? < 1457240813 214558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this channel likes stupid M:tG combos, right? someone created a deck that requires on the order of (2 tetrate 42) turns to win goldfishing < 1457240817 422871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I've already updated it < 1457240821 133652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with margins3 < 1457240826 611836 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1457240829 202412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What cards is it? < 1457240830 423575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not working on the individual strategies section right now < 1457240836 79329 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1457240836 724954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/494kqq/how_can_we_make_the_slowest_deck_possible_or_how/d0ozihf < 1457240943 670724 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457240999 555963 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it'd be best to be conservative and start a new "Recon" section? < 1457241024 404007 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or toss it in with Attack unless you can think of a reason why a defensive program would do the reverse checking thing. < 1457241121 662078 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1457241145 306778 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that it's closely related to breadcrumb decoys though. < 1457241299 934865 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if it's even useful. < 1457241461 605290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: defensive programs often set more decoys than aggressive programs and /really/ want to avoid decoy clashes < 1457241481 138657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. most of waterfall3's losses at the time it was created were decoy clashes < 1457241508 922595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, defensive programs often detect decoy clashes via tripwire disturbance rather than via unexpectedly nonzero cells < 1457241529 12728 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to see if switching nyuroki to use tripwires helps or hurts < 1457242609 387784 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1457242613 421425 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki with tripwires works OK. < 1457242616 839458 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not well, but. < 1457242719 951392 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably mostly because I don't actually have routines specialized for fast rushes/pokes < 1457242869 972639 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about a section like "Decision Making"? "Techniques to determine information about the opponent, or the tape, and use that information to your advantage." < 1457242886 329501 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm. < 1457242888 529938 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, rather. < 1457242906 378993 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457242908 241610 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Techniques to determine information about the opponent, or the tape, which can be used to your advantage by changing strategies depending on this information." < 1457242974 451144 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic: the Gathering has some keyword abilities dealing with +1/+1 counters; I think cards can be made up that combine them (such as: evolve + undying, unleash + tribute, megamorph + undying, sunburst + graft, etc) < 1457243188 362922 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457243728 920758 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457243899 271237 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what BFJoust would look like if [] took 0 cycles. < 1457244791 461473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another kind of variant of BF Joust would be that . writes into opponent's input queue and , reads and removes the first byte of your own input queue, or if your input queue is empty it acts like + but is not affected by reversing polarity. < 1457244902 441836 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also other possibilities for what happen if your own input queue is empty, for example it acts like . instead in such a case < 1457245617 66204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: triplocks everywhere, most likely unbeatable ones; one-cycle clears meaning that decoys wouldn't gain you anything if cleared in the right direction < 1457245779 947489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, actually, the clears would be fast enough to beat the triplocks < 1457246250 526288 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457246932 789491 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A television set could be made including "Famicom mode", where it assumes the input is the output of Famicom PPU and uses that to index into a (possibly user-defined) palette, so it converts NTSC into indexed colours < 1457248123 697815 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457248327 815227 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could probably also autodetect that it was getting Famicom PPU output. < 1457248340 162009 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PPU output really weird NTSC. < 1457248348 886966 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things its color burst was a square wave. < 1457248481 441518 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457248504 828777 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457248706 257506 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457248784 118133 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457249458 480306 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457249761 491856 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:84f:2f0c:fef4:7414 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457249780 791436 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:84f:2f0c:fef4:7414 QUIT :Changing host < 1457249780 924771 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457249879 982103 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457250338 274760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1457253511 615299 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457253769 543777 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457254202 242575 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1457255861 195178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457257719 526706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457258104 365276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457258285 19241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457258598 457439 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457258599 246147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457259117 176042 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457259282 989394 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1457260519 930275 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457260758 151246 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457261013 14198 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457261178 325051 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1457261214 20747 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457261268 53993 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1457263590 178244 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457263770 894364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1457263971 967130 :vodkode!~vodkode@fl-71-52-127-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457264410 964197 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457264414 206148 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457264673 866795 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457264846 995791 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1457265355 330857 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457265894 206610 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457267109 221468 :feliks!~feliks@unaffiliated/feliks QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457267256 371250 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457267571 996934 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1457267810 167199 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :“ By the way, someone (b_jonas?) figured out a way easier way to do `culprits.” => yes, but I haven't finished the implementation yet, because I also want to write a new version of noping < 1457267817 70198 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see the current state at, I think, < 1457267822 111427 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat bin/culprits-ng < 1457267841 536294 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ exec hg log -l 512 --template "{desc}\0" -- "$@" | perl -0ne '/^<([^>]*)>/ and print"$1 "' < 1457267975 476490 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original implementation of culprits is the typical abomination of the kind I hate, like the unix scripts that try to grep and imperfectly parse ps's output without passing switches to ps that already make that much easier < 1457268057 745765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm sure you're a fan of nitia. < 1457268156 86105 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's nitia? < 1457268158 157726 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :without nitia, we would not exist < 1457268165 954114 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nitia < 1457268167 149556 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. < 1457268185 366344 :Riviera!Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec for the part of a pipe seems silly < 1457268194 422905 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tanebventions < 1457268195 477883 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, robots, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex. < 1457268210 86170 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/wisdom < 1457268211 943282 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan shachaf shachaf tswett tswett shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf < 1457268220 875363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/addquote < 1457268221 345558 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/quote < 1457268234 433745 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett tswett Gregor shachaf shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia < 1457268237 443448 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett tswett oerjan elliott ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull fizzie shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia < 1457268342 882945 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( `learn_append nitia However, nitia did not have much wisdom. ) < 1457268363 913724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also of nitia's friend, estin. < 1457268435 994433 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1457268440 340231 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457268714 31846 :feliks!~feliks@unaffiliated/feliks JOIN :#esoteric < 1457269021 482290 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits useless_file.txt < 1457269024 898800 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie estin < 1457269103 653952 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? estin < 1457269104 784485 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :estin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457270037 491341 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457270378 117697 :Alejandro15!~roo@186-89-90-128.genericrev.cantv.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1457270446 247262 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457270761 810146 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457271011 779774 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457271190 720223 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` unidecode $'\1' < 1457271199 730214 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+0001 \ UTF-8: 01 UTF-16BE: 0001 Decimal:
\ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) < 1457271971 616761 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457272124 67903 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Google's slight misrepresentation of Lee Sedol's strength works... I'm reading articles stating that he's the strongest player, when Google wrote that he has the strongest record over the past 10 years. That's probably true, but Ke Jie has been the dominating player last year. < 1457272129 70032 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ke has a 8:2 record against Lee) < 1457272170 314726 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1457272227 406810 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when I say "Google wrote" I mean whoever does PR on behalf of the Alphago team) < 1457272560 591829 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1457272589 473812 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard would it be to run zemhill's markov scoring algorithm on thousands of programs at once < 1457272597 962836 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, rather, what's the computational complexity of it < 1457273040 579106 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457273458 483934 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/oswg-member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :``cat bin/culprits < 1457273459 293967 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found < 1457273460 68465 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457273464 773763 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/oswg-member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/culprits < 1457273465 558828 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs < 1457273894 519655 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/culprits < 1457273897 382523 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet Jafet tswett tswett shachaf shachaf shachaf FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly shachaf < 1457273930 498372 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Jafet where are you at now? < 1457273930 631586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457275110 990072 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457275779 481819 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust dumb ((+)*2310(.)*2310)*-1 < 1457275779 938059 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.dumb: points -25.12, score 5.75, rank 47/47 < 1457275797 971995 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust dumb ((+)*210(.)*210)*-1 < 1457275798 567643 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.dumb: points -23.76, score 5.67, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457276128 747558 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust chicken +[>[-.]] < 1457276129 107333 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily.chicken: points -33.14, score 2.90, rank 47/47 < 1457277076 562372 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust perfection (>)*29 (-)*120 [-] < 1457277076 819638 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.perfection: points -41.81, score 1.02, rank 47/47 < 1457277084 900229 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust perfection (>)*29 (-)*120 [-.] < 1457277085 90699 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.perfection: points -41.81, score 1.02, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457277111 456928 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust perfection (>)*20 ([(-)*120 [-.]{}] >)%-1 < 1457277111 719824 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.perfection: points -36.86, score 2.10, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457277144 943323 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust meow (()*-1)*-1 < 1457277145 301016 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.meow: points -33.14, score 2.90, rank 47/47 < 1457277148 627587 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "perfection" < 1457277158 774165 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo "perfection" < 1457277159 374687 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfection with -40 points < 1457277599 707908 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457278099 703081 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this, misere bfjoust? < 1457278193 46374 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust < < < 1457278193 218366 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Program name (<) is restricted to characters in [a-zA-Z0-9_-], sorry. < 1457278202 610598 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust lt < < 1457278202 877651 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e.lt: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457278237 190670 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: TRIACONTAHEDRON CHICKEN < 1457278239 676361 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust (+-+)*-1 < 1457278239 809820 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "!zjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457278247 494248 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust pmp (+-+)*-1 < 1457278248 706066 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e.pmp: points -7.43, score 12.85, rank 47/47 < 1457278336 422564 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust gpmp >(+-+)*-1 < 1457278338 362993 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e.gpmp: points -9.62, score 6.69, rank 47/47 < 1457278356 331157 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust gpmp >+*128(+-+)*-1 < 1457278358 331524 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e.gpmp: points -9.57, score 6.73, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457278386 197918 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust gpmp >>-<<(+-+)*-1 < 1457278387 239290 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e.gpmp: points -7.05, score 13.02, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457278432 535364 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust gpmp >>->+<<<(+-+)*-1 < 1457278433 620450 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e.gpmp: points -6.74, score 13.34, rank 45/47 (+2) < 1457278453 593868 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny < 1457278778 719701 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e.gpmp vs ais523.death_to_defence / >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -42 / ais523.death_to_defence wins. ... I guess it lives up to its name :) < 1457278809 515476 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, suicide is marginally worse than "perfection"? < 1457278853 404483 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I added the characters for vim Powerline, are there any other widely used (where "widely" means >100 people) terminal programs that use special charatcers? < 1457278919 22827 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you fully support that lineudrawed nethack thingie? < 1457279021 726331 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use any non-unicode charatcers? < 1457279046 811219 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no clue < 1457279122 146963 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do you have any idea if i can somehow use that in connectbot? :D < 1457279175 46597 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457279475 579317 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457279491 829975 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder... I have an andorid phone, so I'll try to figure it out < 1457279553 853518 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can set the system font, but that does not at all change the font inside connectbot < 1457279562 853310 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have absolutely no idea why that is < 1457279667 995712 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457279770 851217 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ollehrjan < 1457279828 814959 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :inoonret-e < 1457279917 520844 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: btw, i'm slightly disappointed that foglio didn't draw van rijn resembling the real rembrandt < 1457279943 214437 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I think it must have a font file somewhere inside the app's files < 1457280167 797055 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, attitude wise he is more of a da vinci anyway < 1457280180 821792 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1457280206 106155 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell with the sepia, but i guess he's another member of the red-haired family. < 1457280277 863479 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we will meet him again... in the flesh... in the past. < 1457280314 970009 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meet who? < 1457280332 799165 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The master van Rijn. < 1457280360 959778 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gg < 1457280367 560847 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457280368 654838 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? girl genius < 1457280370 21442 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :girl genius? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457280372 860681 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1457280376 282011 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oots < 1457280377 475457 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oots? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457280452 649047 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? olist < 1457280453 932564 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html < 1457280522 87681 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits olist < 1457280525 214250 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf shachaf < 1457280535 472526 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: *cough* < 1457280555 311795 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: needs a much longer beard < 1457280606 67892 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457280723 527956 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you could say that about all the sparks. < 1457280747 363730 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :including Agatha... perhaps not. < 1457280790 89856 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/olist < 1457280793 397073 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf shachaf shachaf oerjan elliott Bike < 1457280805 489865 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? comic < 1457280806 404182 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457280827 529577 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Orlando99 5* 10New user account < 1457280835 254409 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( `learn comic sans ... ) < 1457280933 6439 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with all the helicopters today < 1457281004 38146 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn comics/Recommended comics include genius stick, stuck girl, and home of the order. < 1457281012 535685 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «comics» < 1457281049 252524 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Orlando9914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46499 5* 03Orlando99 5* (+145) 10Created page with "Hi! I'm Orlando99. I haven't created any esoteric programming languages '''yet''', but I'm working on a new one. I hope I'll finish it soon... :)" < 1457281052 116290 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1457281052 738509 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1457281058 623379 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elrond < 1457281059 839427 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves. < 1457281069 991307 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Orlando9914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46500&oldid=46499 5* 03Orlando99 5* (-2) 10 < 1457281098 679742 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i like that one < 1457281253 893981 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn comics/Recommended comics include Genius Stick, Stuck Girl, and Home of the Order. < 1457281256 943961 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «comics» < 1457281268 129728 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :long live the Oxford comma! < 1457281275 855879 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1457281343 724707 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily made a capital effort there. < 1457281405 352900 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it be “the” or “The”% < 1457281412 464145 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s%\%%?% < 1457281433 659219 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the" < 1457281477 830745 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you purposely use % as a separator -_- < 1457281496 81751 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it puts your sanity into question. < 1457281513 234385 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabellora. s/// expressions are fun to mangle! < 1457281525 494164 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457281531 580098 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan. oh you of little faith... Believe in my Sanity! < 1457281537 368677 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think somewhere on freenode there's a channel for programmers who do intentionally difficult things for fun < 1457281539 682411 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn Oxford/The home of English, woven shirts, and the serial comma. < 1457281542 357319 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «oxford» < 1457281549 504921 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/oxford < 1457281550 922710 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they also program in things like brainfuck and Malbolge < 1457281554 16822 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique < 1457281599 580628 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: crazy crowd < 1457281600 521377 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/slash_learn < 1457281601 532971 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/slash_learn: No such file or directory < 1457281605 129599 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/slashlearn < 1457281605 943929 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "Learned «$key»" < 1457281608 478030 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Sounds like a scary place to me. A place you tell naughty children about so that they stay in their beds while failing to sleep. < 1457281612 413882 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457281670 434746 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1457281728 536334 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I lost your train of thought < 1457281751 633781 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that's what all the sane people say just before they break hth < 1457281763 103737 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestick and Order of the Stuck? < 1457281764 920961 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly just after. < 1457281825 650340 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: which train? < 1457281855 271182 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that rolled over "darn" < 1457281893 62562 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized fixing slashlearn in the same way as shachaf fixed learn looks ugly < 1457281917 486020 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1457281922 435535 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why fixing it? < 1457281934 558102 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1457281937 857373 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: so it says whether the wisdom previously existed < 1457281944 711602 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1457281964 527392 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it just a symlink to le/rn? < 1457281981 20178 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo-p < 1457281982 41586 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457281991 832634 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: the other way around < 1457281992 279981 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/echo-p < 1457281993 14137 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null < 1457281999 71712 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1457282007 989125 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that doesn't make sense < 1457282015 909106 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: it's older. < 1457282020 987017 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/echo-p < 1457282023 728629 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1457282026 186482 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should slashlearn look at the number of slashes? < 1457282026 684337 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waves
< 1457282027 393159 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the filling came out of one of my teeth < 1457282037 309835 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's a pandemic! < 1457282039 506383 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to get an urgent appointment to my dentist < 1457282075 723720 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: um so that le/rn and le//rn both work hth < 1457282100 286664 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "older", i mean creation, not latest version hth < 1457282133 300089 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :le/rn and le//rn could just point to two different files instead of stupid argv[0] magic < 1457282135 246007 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1457282152 720123 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's impossible, because they're the same file < 1457282154 315076 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( what about le///rn ) < 1457282154 729059 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how so < 1457282168 119444 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but change them < 1457282171 989481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1457282173 305647 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1457282176 523211 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1457282181 628060 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1457282183 889928 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, use different names? < 1457282189 529741 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like slashlearn and slashslashlearn? < 1457282208 664730 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: um le/rn was created because slashlearn was too long hth < 1457282239 77919 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your strange insistence on using it notwithstanding. < 1457282243 479055 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want c/o/n/v/e/n/i/e/n/c/e, and cslashoslashnslashvslasheslashnslashislasheslashnslashcslashe just doesn't cut it for us < 1457282366 466347 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i think that cuts it too fine, rather < 1457282406 564961 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/e/r/j/a/n, does it hurt when I do this? < 1457282417 307786 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :remarkably little. < 1457282433 290081 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the double slash syntax was `le/rn /key//value < 1457282444 870518 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's as many characters as `le//rn key//value I think < 1457282451 88066 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't collide with anything < 1457282454 74062 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less intuitive < 1457282494 138149 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly believe the $0 trick is good for the limited purpose it serves < 1457282527 101685 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1457282673 466519 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` [ -e te/st/ing ] || echo "nope" < 1457282674 396009 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1457282705 174143 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the hardest part now is that slashlearn uses ; instead of newlines < 1457282789 504310 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/learn < 1457282790 638096 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1" < 1457282798 293717 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/slashlearn < 1457282799 111005 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "Learned «$key»" < 1457282808 185496 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "Learned «$key»" < 1457282899 458333 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/slashlearn//sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "$verb «$key»" < 1457282902 211929 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/slashlearn < 1457282915 435650 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? testing < 1457282916 744369 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing might eventually succeed. < 1457282922 164159 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget testing < 1457282925 385847 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1457282939 690769 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn testing/Testing is fragile. < 1457282942 622493 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned «testing» < 1457282950 702537 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1457282952 17925 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1457282955 175183 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loo < 1457282975 326083 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/slashlearn//sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "$verb «$key»" < 1457282977 706082 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/slashlearn < 1457282985 282787 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget testing < 1457282987 561071 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1457282990 205819 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn testing/Testing is fragile. < 1457282992 684292 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «testing» < 1457283001 474815 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn testing/Testing can only do so much. < 1457283003 886390 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned «testing» < 1457283007 687048 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go. < 1457283068 348783 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn estin didn't believe in automation. < 1457283071 258993 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'estin': estin didn't believe in automation. < 1457283081 250201 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? estin < 1457283082 597873 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :estin didn't believe in automation. < 1457283300 871639 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, can the process for getting superuser permissions on android be any more confusing? < 1457283347 626807 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, exploiting a bug? < 1457283396 981971 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? chicken < 1457283398 142852 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken is boily af < 1457283398 276288 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? egg < 1457283399 240160 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457283405 951872 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :any number of websites and apps and whatnot, none looking at all trustworthy, it makes Windows look completey sane < 1457283447 462191 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all I wanted to do was edit one fricking file < 1457283473 32393 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xda is oretty trustworthy < 1457283673 269928 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? xda < 1457283674 324186 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xda? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1457283745 846874 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean seriously why the hell isn't there just a button to open a goddamn bash shell < 1457283753 81552 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Quit: Ping Pong Fuckout < 1457283768 833428 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn;t this supposed to be linux < 1457283773 625561 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 although make sure you use a section edit rather than editing the whole page <-- i read somewhere that doesn't matter any longer < 1457283773 759216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457283789 586713 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it prevent an app to use this? < 1457283802 366751 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it a physical button. < 1457283824 730159 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't fix the problem at all < 1457283883 760727 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, the button would be part of the main settings? < 1457283896 823911 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean windows has a way to do this easily < 1457283899 380785 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/chicken < 1457283902 163331 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman < 1457283917 648803 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman mrelloman. < 1457283917 782003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1457283922 676537 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows has a button to make you able to destroy everything? < 1457283930 153202 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457283931 151498 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: several, in fact < 1457283941 198062 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1457283947 220945 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great design < 1457283988 90290 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can edit any file on the system if you click through all the warning messages < 1457284023 116107 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me of the video qhere people started formating a drive through voice recognition < 1457284081 560879 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... my windows computer has a sim card slot < 1457284098 723471 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need this bullshit anyway < 1457284105 999514 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eyes \oren\'s computer with suspicion
< 1457284116 330693 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a phone to me. < 1457284167 65352 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't a phone, it's just a thinkpad with all the trimmings < 1457284195 90802 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well except I didn't shell out for a super-good minitor < 1457284199 867364 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*screen < 1457284214 547393 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a minitor: a screen with low resolution? < 1457284218 214445 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457284232 421775 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457284263 685255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like the monotaur < 1457284275 417759 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the majotaur < 1457284288 658622 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1366x768 < 1457284289 520201 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my notebook also has a sim card slot < 1457284347 478006 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457284564 6033 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so basically instead of trying to tether the wifi connection, I'll just put my sim card in my computer whenever I want to use my data connection from my computer < 1457284651 212227 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my plan is a "bring your own phone" plan, so i think that's allowed < 1457284693 166714 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, why would you use a bad android phone when you have a better one < 1457284719 590711 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stereotaur < 1457284770 760756 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyanogenmod makes root less stupid, at least. :P < 1457284786 754512 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's built into the system, so, it's probably trustworthy. < 1457284787 645424 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: well, you just need root to install it < 1457284796 703 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy game < 1457284802 680478 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You reimage the phone after you get root though. < 1457284811 901369 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I don't really need to worry about the rooting program being "trustworthy" per se. < 1457284841 412815 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just "bringing" a 15 by 9 inch, 6 pound clamshell "phone" < 1457284856 664301 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Samsung phone, so, I just reimaged it using the 'supported' method. < 1457284889 794641 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :withbthe thirdparty app < 1457284917 610714 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: You mean you don't even have to bolt it into your car? Technology has come so fr < 1457284920 869887 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*far < 1457284931 70532 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1457284990 170611 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even today with pervasive smartphones, there's a certain romantic access to a "car phone" < 1457284991 544128 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric : make it a physical button. < 1457285003 421500 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just do something like how UAC works < 1457285005 912413 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if to say "I have so much going on that I have a dedicated phone just for my car" < 1457285019 44849 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that's what I was saying < 1457285026 865662 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pop up a secure OS level dialog that applications can't interact with. < 1457285039 365805 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put the button a 5 second timer so nobody presses it on accident because an application is sneaky. < 1457285050 227314 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or require a passphrase. < 1457285065 600001 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a captcha < 1457285069 286270 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO "secure" and "can't" < 1457285085 255452 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1457285101 658687 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have enough permissions to screw with a privileged security dialog < 1457285109 187784 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably have the permissions to do what you wanted to do in the first place anyway < 1457285120 522894 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :when UAC pops up, the computer beeps, the screen goes black for a second, and then the UAC dialog pops up < 1457285127 700779 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hearing "run as root all the time". Got it. Sounds easy. :) < 1457285145 160751 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1457285173 26952 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457285173 849895 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it says in a scary way, "are you sure you want [application] to be able to do [something]" < 1457285174 724971 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say I'll never have to enter my password to install my special weather widgets ever again? Sounds dandy! < 1457285205 472940 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you think we're talking about, but, that's certainly not it. < 1457285220 759205 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: on my other computer I use puppy linux, so, yeah, all root all the time < 1457285234 217496 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: It almost literally says the "something" part, though, unless UAC dialogs have gotten more informative recently < 1457285241 83944 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, It's more complicated than that. There's some isolation mechanism between the actual application processes and the system component that does the UAC prompts (and presumably elevates the privileges of the processes that request it) < 1457285262 312643 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't UAC still not have fine-grained permissions < 1457285284 22975 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: sure, but I'm just describing the user interface < 1457285297 640294 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it still only had two modes: A) Anything a normal unprivileged user can do, B) Anything your user can do, including adminstrative stuff if you have the permissions. < 1457285298 764991 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which goes out of its way to make sure the user pays attention < 1457285329 46027 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in doing so probably causes itself to be ignored even harder < 1457285350 517949 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so jarring that I imagine most users just wildly click through it without wondering what the triggering process is < 1457285368 433850 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends. my mother will click "no", even I tell her five times to click yes < 1457285412 279403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: so you don't have enough permission to control your mother? < 1457285458 476600 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. I hate doing tech support < 1457285586 182097 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Sounds like you need a mother upgrade < 1457285946 876792 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, at least, if it's aimed at technical users, the only requirement of the user interface is that you could only give access "intentionally", no? < 1457285986 439535 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hence, a 2-4 second timer on the accept button in case an application tries to trick a user into pressing it by timing when it brings up the dialog.) < 1457286010 762598 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't need to be unforgable unless you have a password prompt. < 1457286010 762657 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but it should also make clear to non-techs that this is a sensitive feature < 1457286033 547309 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no point in a fake escalation prompt, unless it requires a password. < 1457286062 260962 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that isn't exactly easy either. < 1457286276 189374 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1457286310 770577 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because < 1457286313 793327 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't freaking read < 1457286403 904769 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck... this stupid hole where the filling came out is impossible to clean. my tooth will start hurting in no time. < 1457286421 143410 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to be really careful and get an appointment first thing tomorrow < 1457286783 736596 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject-Oriented Programming seems an interesting place to research < 1457286790 507179 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Context-Oriented < 1457286866 654225 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to see some new GUI approaches that aren't a big bowl of imperative sOOP. < 1457287094 207157 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1457287099 588394 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did I write this Python script < 1457287103 622466 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why did I use os.chdir at all < 1457287198 137625 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's all this stuff going on now with functional reactive programming, and cool declarative approaches to same, and yet it's all web-focused. The native approaches either try to glue FRP onto the existing sOOP, or just run web stuff in a browser window. < 1457287220 449304 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :sOOP? < 1457287378 968524 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457287460 771007 :Thassa!~Kiora@2601:603:800:4230:7ad6:f0ff:fed1:8cac JOIN :#esoteric < 1457287468 833183 :Thassa!~Kiora@2601:603:800:4230:7ad6:f0ff:fed1:8cac PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hweh < 1457287635 121254 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've begun translating my game from C into Javascript < 1457287668 478059 :Thassa!~Kiora@2601:603:800:4230:7ad6:f0ff:fed1:8cac PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ayy < 1457287921 717832 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You poor thing < 1457287932 611240 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody should have to suffer Javascript. < 1457288336 172370 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457288486 713504 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: object oriented + soup. < 1457288503 359281 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :soup? Never heard that term < 1457288515 216200 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in " a big mass of interdependent stateful objects that give the functional programming zealot in me hives " < 1457288583 698052 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1457288598 362566 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most gui elements are inherently stateful < 1457288676 408892 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. But there are other approaches to handling that state while allowing individual components to remain purely functional. < 1457288741 596874 :vodkode!~vodkode@fl-71-52-127-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457288756 987133 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY! gensokyo radio is playing ym favorite song < 1457288817 90471 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work with Reagent in my day job, for example, where largely you're working with pure functions that just return markup that gets rendered by virtual DOM, and page state is handled by a single canonical atom. < 1457288855 705702 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a really fun way to work with an interface, and makes me sad there's not really a native equivalent unless you count the React Native bindings (which are presently a giant nightmare behemoth) < 1457289053 317258 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean what i would do to avoid state would be to have each button callback be a function that takes the whole state and returns a new state < 1457289099 53078 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457289109 807961 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you'd have to redraw everything with each button press < 1457289290 403189 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fix_my_tooth < 1457289294 993466 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fix_my_tooth: not found < 1457289301 427128 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there a command for this? < 1457289302 864989 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dentist < 1457289303 673306 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dentist: not found < 1457289307 764152 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`appointment dentist < 1457289308 423285 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: appointment: not found < 1457289331 675743 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`brush teeth < 1457289332 282229 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: brush: not found < 1457289352 360 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`floss teeth < 1457289352 903967 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: floss: not found < 1457289410 10391 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(@teeth){brush;floss;} < 1457290229 401119 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's not actual Perl < 1457290861 469468 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i've finally abolished the need to declare objects with a * in Objective-C (JX) < 1457290897 730884 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i have abolished plans for stack objects, and if I ever do, it'll use alloca() (so will remain a pointer) < 1457291079 243957 :Thassa!~Kiora@2601:603:800:4230:7ad6:f0ff:fed1:8cac QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457291719 661638 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric : /win 26 < 1457291721 465666 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1457292226 609722 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457292286 936869 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457292321 106683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wait, didn't slashlearn do the learned/relearned thing in the past? < 1457292328 946241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or learn did, or something? < 1457292345 728713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there was a bug with the program being run twice that made it not work well? < 1457293963 707675 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, mlton is in brew, now < 1457295119 816635 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can program both in C and in JavaScript < 1457295308 986672 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including a Z-machine implementation in JavaScript. I made a simple front-end for use with Node.js although this front-end is simple and does not do word wrap and pausing per page. (The back-end though uses pure JavaScript and does not require Node.js) < 1457295318 378758 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457295460 207802 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457295599 524352 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457295755 395119 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on making my string library less wonky < 1457295900 114611 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, applying a consistent naming scheme < 1457295913 229145 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1457296033 675675 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.208.252 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457296635 196315 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1457296761 575665 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should also run some test programs through valgrind < 1457296785 679319 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1457296872 658980 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457297285 935326 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457297879 128132 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn NICK :lynn < 1457298283 485245 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hujptfflromrlckb QUIT :Excess Flood < 1457298415 634498 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457298457 496218 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-nxgerbsmanhckvcl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457298805 570905 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457298964 489835 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable173.181-178-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: STAIR CHICKEN < 1457299442 395010 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457299750 519904 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457300260 239367 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457300564 790095 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1457300654 866927 :sioux000!~user@net-188-217-149-116.cust.vodafonedsl.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1457300796 107096 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457300870 671533 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I learned a new term. That PCP question I asked a while ago could be rephrased as stating that the set of PCP instances having a finite solution and set of PCP instances having no infinite solution are /recursively inseparable/. < 1457300974 916672 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457301120 190716 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/STR.h.htm http://www.orenwatson.be/STR.c.htm < 1457301124 283001 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for those who care but don't remember, the question wasn't whether this is true; it was whether this has been established in the literature) < 1457301708 636069 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1457301856 176862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457301888 158754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, nyuroki dropped four places? < 1457301962 425990 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehwhat? < 1457302112 264725 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1457302116 654472 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I accidentally submit the wrong version < 1457302160 76218 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nyuroki https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Lymia/JoustExt/master/examples/nyuroki-esoteric.bf < 1457302162 493602 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_nyuroki: 6.4 < 1457302167 134613 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust nyuroki https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Lymia/JoustExt/master/examples/nyuroki-esoteric.bf < 1457302167 596602 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.nyuroki: points 18.62, score 49.60, rank 2/47 (+4) < 1457302183 591925 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears so < 1457302210 387035 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nyuroki http://pastebin.com/raw/p68cTXd8 < 1457302212 979222 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_nyuroki: 51.9 < 1457302696 878781 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am practicing my cgi scripting < 1457302724 303056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back at #2 now, that's better < 1457302843 531367 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust < 1457302843 664755 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: "!zjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457302878 410200 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't rember what the tld for zem was < 1457302897 546589 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457302917 680857 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-004-080-239.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1457303209 958810 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-188-109-008-107.188.109.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457303699 969160 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1457303795 914965 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457303819 548670 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : <-- i don't remember whether `learn had that problem. we'll see. < 1457303821 900190 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1457303825 556514 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : And then there was a bug with the program being run twice that made it not work well? <-- i don't remember whether `learn had that problem. we'll see. < 1457303832 556669 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/learn < 1457303844 680473 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/learn < 1457303861 926145 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457303871 620150 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't be surprised if it breaks in some case. < 1457303938 532234 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i suggest you ask nitia. < 1457303951 296184 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i see nothing relevant in the browser. < 1457304076 624201 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grumpy because bruised his knee on the ice. again.
< 1457304096 518000 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also because i have a cold. < 1457304107 189136 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1457304107 511757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 062220Z 11006KT 9999 SCT057 M00/M06 Q1005 RMK WIND 670FT 14011KT < 1457304117 576741 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KOAK < 1457304117 929621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 062153Z 22012KT 10SM SCT035 BKN110 BKN160 16/06 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP153 T01560061 < 1457304125 453292 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's an obvious solution to ice problems hth < 1457304153 275160 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving to california has other problems, alas < 1457304170 716236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't think of any < 1457304221 560035 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it you have a very limited imagination < 1457304291 916984 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457304389 763861 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: anyway, the tests of `learn and `le/rn worked, so if there's a problem it's obviously not reliably so. < 1457304403 726736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/slashlearn < 1457304404 888489 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/slashlearn < 1457304412 179809 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect it would have something to do with file creation < 1457304444 713172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1457304447 764184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with `learn? < 1457304451 356816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or potentially up? < 1457304463 224491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/9c7426991c5f < 1457304478 528485 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we've modified `learn and `le/rn to give different output dependent on whether the file already existed < 1457304494 91869 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i was tired of checking everytime someone else forgot to :P < 1457304496 113650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1457304500 622942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashlearn is 15 months old? < 1457304502 755850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ridiculous. < 1457304505 513492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe that. < 1457304532 299539 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 17? < 1457304545 329184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. < 1457304555 925198 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457304557 808381 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed you did distinguish. < 1457304567 556239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the logs from whenever I was doing that should explain what the problem was. < 1457304575 323852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing we have an expert logreader here. < 1457304623 444770 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1457304778 716474 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-11-19#103938shachaf < 1457304801 853709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to you reading logs so I don't have to? < 1457304819 307746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading logs of things I said in IRC is usually pretty painful. < 1457304825 190215 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were just opposed to doing the searching < 1457304853 692867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The searching is easy with a timestamp. < 1457304972 740014 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-11-19#110103fizzie < 1457304985 354786 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1457304989 24567 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it may be broken with files with spaces in them? < 1457305001 412172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, now I remember. < 1457305008 774894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's no problem for learn. < 1457305011 800923 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn Te sting/This is horrible? < 1457305015 984567 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «te sting» < 1457305026 243071 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this worked... < 1457305035 506815 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the bug has been fixed? < 1457305040 809503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn Te sting/Did you mean "The sting"? < 1457305044 343319 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned «te sting» < 1457305048 320014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1457305050 732074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1457305075 295365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do remember talking to fizzie about how it should be fixed. < 1457305095 477653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1457305097 927401 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457305105 769976 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. < 1457305130 211899 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also remember talking about how revert should be fixed, but that obviously didn't happen. < 1457305150 773879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we clearly can't fix it from inside the bot itself, without some sort of exploit < 1457305165 531970 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well the assumption was that fizzie could... < 1457305170 484078 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least Gregor < 1457305176 726322 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` /bin/cat bin/revert < 1457305177 790048 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/cat: bin/revert: No such file or directory < 1457305183 909272 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1457305187 296965 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :revert is a real command? < 1457305191 584557 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: `revert is a builtin < 1457305193 816630 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1457305204 516833 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought we could read the hg history < 1457305206 899462 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :culprits does so < 1457305209 165483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be, otherwise you could delete `revert and nobody else would be able to delete it < 1457305210 893923 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can't we make our own revert? < 1457305214 413386 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but < 1457305218 857653 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't we make a similar command? < 1457305219 950038 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes. so we _could_ create revert these days. < 1457305220 83493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*revert it < 1457305226 590234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could potentially make our own revert though, yes < 1457305230 56874 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call it rerevert < 1457305230 877546 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in fact we have bin/undo < 1457305235 720351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just have to have a different name < 1457305242 63282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo test > test2 < 1457305244 155818 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457305246 440032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`undo < 1457305248 75238 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I know, and termbot has a builtin to revert the whole hard disk to pristine state too < 1457305249 268452 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg diff: option -c requires argument \ patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input. < 1457305252 711364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457305262 464465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm test2 < 1457305263 513844 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need a commit < 1457305265 18730 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457305267 34571 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` tr \! \! < bin/undo < 1457305267 805097 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "$@" | patch -p1 -R < 1457305275 56099 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1457305277 563061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch: When I give you garbage in the patch input, I expect garbage in the patch output. < 1457305278 546515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what's up with that tr? < 1457305289 84210 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457305315 33972 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm afraid to use cat, because if I wanted to hide something, I'd install a fake bin/cat < 1457305328 443421 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so /bin/cat or perl -pe1 seems safer < 1457305335 377166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` < bin/undo < 1457305335 950849 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457305336 634739 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the only problem with fizzie fixing it is that it probably won't get updated in Gregor's source repository < 1457305337 372931 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you could mask any of those too < 1457305339 734272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457305352 323357 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1457305355 879574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is `paste a builtin? < 1457305364 30309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so then you could use that to prevent something being faked < 1457305377 607530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems implausible to me to trust tr but not cat < 1457305382 70176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`more bin/undo < 1457305384 651727 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "$@" | patch -p1 -R < 1457305388 540329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, and it's even worse to trust bin/\`\` < 1457305399 721468 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you know how bin/ls is a script, right? < 1457305415 588738 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: paste is not a builtin. < 1457305417 34145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, IIRC it's not for hiding things but for preventing breakage < 1457305429 877567 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1457305449 844180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/paste < 1457305450 912125 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/paste < 1457305459 229029 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1457305461 950189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean there's your answer anyway < 1457305466 416078 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's create a fake bin/revert ! < 1457305467 923952 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the mercurial repo online < 1457305478 370847 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tac bin/revert < 1457305480 91888 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/tac: line 2: bin/revert: No such file or directory < 1457305505 718581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/url < 1457305506 547181 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url < 1457305530 430380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one should be unfakeable; although `url could lie, a human would be able to see the lies in the resulting URL < 1457305551 871119 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec git reset --hard HEAD^\n' > bin/revert < 1457305552 548469 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$'#!/bin/sh\nexec git reset --hard HEAD^\n' > bin/revert < 1457305561 529125 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec git reset --hard HEAD^\n' > bin/revert < 1457305563 580013 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457305574 553055 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, no < 1457305603 885511 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec git revert HEAD\n' > bin/revert < 1457305605 627652 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457305609 737436 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't lose the history < 1457305663 120035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the .hg part of the repository read-only or something? < 1457305688 896553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a read-only mount < 1457305703 144017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm -r .hg/* < 1457305704 418418 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `.hg/00changelog.i': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `.hg/branch': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `.hg/branchheads.cache': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `.hg/cache': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `.hg/dirstate': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `.hg/last-message.txt': Read-only < 1457305726 428511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the great thing about hackego is that you can enter highly destructive commands almost at will as it's typically easy to fix the results) < 1457305802 768930 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why are you using git commands, HackEgo is mercury < 1457305830 657112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a fake command, so it doesn't matter, right? < 1457305834 596370 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1457305835 505402 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know mercurial < 1457305843 41337 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KLAS < 1457305843 288891 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KLAS 062256Z 25017G28KT 10SM FEW050 SCT080 19/M04 A2967 RMK AO2 PK WND 25029/2234 SLP033 T01891039 < 1457305851 345314 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :read-only? ok, then let's make it < 1457305860 173981 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec git revert --no-commit HEAD\n' > bin/revert < 1457305862 930891 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457305866 721380 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can we not write the index either? < 1457305878 289979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing is on a read-only file system < 1457305887 351025 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457305890 400082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way you'd implement a `revert, though < 1457305896 779576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be to change the filesystem to match an old revision < 1457305901 156271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then let the autocommit do the rest of the work < 1457305901 735824 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, we'd need to modify only the filesystem < 1457305905 112996 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the index < 1457305929 148001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, lack of orthogonality in git commands strikes again < 1457305942 631524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you'd want would be a checkout of an old revision without changing the current revision < 1457305988 200548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly that's git checkout -p commit -- . < 1457305992 752468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little unclear from the docs < 1457305998 594071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks how you'd do it in scapegoat
< 1457306003 61266 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the command for that is git checkout HEAD^ < 1457306004 640989 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1457306014 23715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that gives you a detached HEAD though < 1457306019 11714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it also changes the current revision < 1457306020 744092 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :#``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec git checkout HEAD^\n' > bin/revert < 1457306021 739080 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1457306027 878994 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then git checkout HEAD^ . < 1457306034 7539 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec git checkout HEAD^ .\n' > bin/revert < 1457306035 922596 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457306044 990645 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1457306052 140858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in scapegoat it'd be sg-focus revision . < 1457306064 817766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving any path, including ., prevents the default name changing < 1457306089 417691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, sg-focus hash < 1457306096 872150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a hash is not a name, and thus can't be the default name < 1457306288 616983 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1457306724 23014 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'll have to be really careful and get an appointment first thing tomorrow <-- fwiw in my recent case i had to wait 2 weeks because my dentist had the flu. he said there was only a little deterioration. my web searches were inconlusive on how urgent it is. < 1457306832 71876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably talk to a dentist too. < 1457306844 525049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should find one. < 1457307039 596327 :blockzombie!~blockzomb@eth59-167-133-100.static.internode.on.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457307049 564891 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i underestimated the danger once, and now i'm never getting my perfect teeth back :( < 1457307139 686690 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: halving the amount you brush can put you over from 0 holes one year to 6 the next.) < 1457307148 11308 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cavities < 1457307159 337605 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (a) it's a large hole, and (b) it's annoying < 1457307176 200434 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect teeth! I won't get those either, heh < 1457307194 605442 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ship has sailed < 1457307199 212976 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just get dentures and call it a day hth < 1457307330 767928 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can delay the moment I start getting root canals and stuff by a few decades I'll be happy < 1457307342 371284 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have great teeth < 1457307368 907132 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter the amount of brushing, i don't get any problems < 1457307394 759693 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not hurting, then it's probably not *urgent*. < 1457307395 838051 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: that's what i thought about mine. < 1457307413 255642 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was hurting a lot but now isn't, though, then it's quite urgent. :) < 1457307425 724565 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is like this for almost three decades < 1457307459 409360 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : If it was hurting a lot but now isn't, though, then it's quite urgent. :) <-- EEK. that's what i experienced the last couple weeks D: < 1457307479 1549 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not a "lot". but somehow it stopped. < 1457307526 886866 :sioux000!~user@net-188-217-149-116.cust.vodafonedsl.it QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1457307551 890121 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i had a dentist appointment and couldn't get myself awake for it. < 1457307568 104272 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the filling fell out recently. that means now there's a big gaping hole IN MY TEETH. the hole is impossible to clear, so it will always be full of food. it doesn't hurt now, but it will very soon. < 1457307571 481594 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My occasional tooth pain is usually mitigated by increasing my vitamin intake < 1457307578 468743 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think D and B12 are the big ones? < 1457307597 607451 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: i'm taking vitamin pills already. < 1457307604 765277 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make sure to mix in enough placebo < 1457307607 742888 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ones that I often don't get enough of, probably < 1457307609 343425 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not just that it will hurt, but that very soon it will be so inflammed that it will be impossible to make a permanent filling, so I'll need a temporary one and then another appointment. < 1457307627 445834 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :D < 1457307636 973077 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is not if, but when < 1457307643 508440 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hole is ugly and deep and big < 1457307646 964688 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and between two teeth < 1457307649 725483 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it's impossible to clear < 1457307666 349466 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, it is like this for almost three decades <-- me too < 1457307680 952697 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Well, that's at least not immediately worrying but is definitely something to fix. < 1457307798 683170 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a single cavity in my teens, in a tooth that was later removed due to orthodontics. (at least, later dentists couldn't find it.) then nothing until i was 44. < 1457307822 151251 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457307892 747552 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK GET IT FIXED < 1457307892 931597 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46501&oldid=46498 5* 03B jonas 5* (+91) 10 < 1457307948 797593 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do recall from the web searches that size mattered. < 1457307977 945731 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said < 1457308099 52012 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoda disagrees < 1457308172 838615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this conversation is causing my teeth to hurt :-( < 1457308176 901950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nocebo effect is annoying < 1457308187 889650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry < 1457308190 154793 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so sad that Voxelwiki is gone. They left my page up for so long < 1457308198 790987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's time for a routine dentist appointment for me anyway around now though so I may as well book one < 1457308205 815900 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some placebo vitamin pills, but not fluoride ones for your teeth < 1457308227 773378 :jaboja!~jaboja@eju25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457308234 902102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I use fluoride toothpaste < 1457308235 960898 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try various placebos until you find one that works for you. Surely one of them must be the right kind of fake < 1457308244 467928 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test (,)*1000< < 1457308246 925080 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_test: 0.0 < 1457308249 91516 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test (.)*1000< < 1457308251 528205 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_test: 6.1 < 1457308257 972397 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (,)*1000< < 1457308258 105888 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457308261 338211 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (.)*1000< < 1457308261 471546 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -35.33, score 2.72, rank 47/47 < 1457308275 973181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most BF Joust interpts treat , as a comment < 1457308279 423593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than as a no-op < 1457308305 213834 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1457308307 978904 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just confirming < 1457308339 93495 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest ddecoy (+)*127>(+)*129(.)*-1 < 1457308339 410643 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.ddecoy: points -27.57, score 4.41, rank 47/47 < 1457308364 779664 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I hope that's not actual Perl <-- it could be if you defined @teeth, brush and floss right, no? < 1457308386 338287 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh implicit variables. < 1457308386 844928 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1457308444 379350 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ([])*1000< < 1457308444 584415 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1457308444 717700 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's time for a routine dentist appointment for me anyway around now though so I may as well book one <-- my dentist sends out a card with an appointment once a year. next monday, in fact. < 1457308450 395758 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test ([])*1000< < 1457308452 853994 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for prooftechnique_test: 6.1 < 1457308465 475392 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test ([])*1000< < 1457308465 796703 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457308474 653659 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as bad as I expected < 1457308492 316303 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look like a very sensible program < 1457308505 797062 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, isn't (.)*-1 better than that? < 1457308550 101226 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause (.)*-1 < 1457308552 546740 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for b_jonas_pause: 6.1 < 1457308565 975114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Lymia was checking whether . and , did the same thing < 1457308580 928315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program was designed so that the the score would change based on how long the program lasted before committing suicide < 1457308583 188934 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause ()*-1 < 1457308586 616421 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for b_jonas_pause: 6.1 < 1457308598 205857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as some programs will suicide aginst a no-op program in less than 1000 cycles < 1457308607 413990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "()*-1" is quite the special case < 1457308609 88033 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1457308615 33590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust b_jonas_pause ()*-1 < 1457308615 439941 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457308624 806595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't surprise me if some interps hanged on that < 1457308649 877155 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([+]) * -1=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308652 312897 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymia_two_people_running_from_a_shark: 1.8 < 1457308664 620953 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause ((({})*999999)*9999999)*999999 < 1457308675 534859 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test (-[{>}+])%3 < 1457308677 676454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you can put comments between the () and the * < 1457308678 394243 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah fizzie did some special code to catch empty loop blocks < 1457308682 591285 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([+]) *-1=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308688 628425 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should not hang zemhill at least < 1457308709 680750 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([+]) *-1=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308710 558669 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.two_people_running_from_a_shark: points -18.19, score 3.93, rank 47/47 < 1457308723 753074 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (-[{>}+])%3 < 1457308723 926030 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique.test: points -43.26, score 0.28, rank 47/47 < 1457308725 636160 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([]+) *-1=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308726 439682 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.two_people_running_from_a_shark: points -22.88, score 3.54, rank 47/47 < 1457308727 613732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tested juiced < 1457308735 881287 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it reply to mine yet? < 1457308738 727170 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<{(+{(>)*5}-)%3})%5 < 1457308738 860472 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457308741 133889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to slow down noticeably, and outputs a debug message ()*10000001 < 1457308746 351875 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascinatingly bad < 1457308753 178569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's actually running 10 million empty loop iterations < 1457308758 302328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: it starts with a < < 1457308759 999521 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([+]) *8=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308760 748441 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.two_people_running_from_a_shark: points -14.67, score 8.11, rank 47/47 < 1457308763 548170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not normally a good way to do well < 1457308768 845719 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([]) *8=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308769 141825 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.two_people_running_from_a_shark: points -33.48, score 2.77, rank 47/47 < 1457308778 614612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, editing a program to start with an < is the normal way to remove it from the hill < 1457308779 740305 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([+]) *8=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308780 411098 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.two_people_running_from_a_shark: points -14.67, score 8.11, rank 47/47 < 1457308785 998278 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust test (()*-1,)*-1< < 1457308786 196359 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457308818 285416 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause2 ()*99999999999 < 1457308823 933895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: the reason the current version does better than the []*8 version is that it at least has a chance of locking a naive clear loop < 1457308826 527685 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause3 ({})*99999999999 < 1457308850 297741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust attack1 [>[-]+] < 1457308862 224939 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest two_people_running_from_a_shark >+([]) -=≡(>[-])＞ *-1=≡(>[-])> < 1457308862 413427 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.two_people_running_from_a_shark: points -21.76, score 7.19, rank 47/47 < 1457308866 127430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: should be ({})%99999999999 (with however many 9s you want) to comply with the spec < 1457308872 813650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1457308879 374359 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause4 ({})%99999999999 < 1457308891 273563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in retrospect, we should probably cap loop iterations to 100000, there's no reason not to < 1457308896 34310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but even then, nested loops could be a DoS) < 1457308932 912775 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fishbones >+]]]][-]> < 1457308943 175118 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the interpreters written in? something that uses bigints by default? < 1457308946 655546 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest fishbones >+]]]][-]> < 1457308946 788826 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: error: parse error: terminating ] without a matching [ < 1457308953 328862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :juiced is written in C < 1457308957 278269 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1457308978 4942 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pause5 ()%99999999999 < 1457308995 20043 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably try to fix () with some sort of AST manipulation < 1457309005 375282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest google http://google.com < 1457309005 508753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing that's powering zemhill is also written in C, and the command to parse numbers actually does cap at 100000. < 1457309005 642152 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's still stuck on the first one and doesn't start to run the rest < 1457309005 775453 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457309015 704310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at whatever MAXCYCLES is defined as, but anyway. < 1457309025 408828 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dead < < 1457309031 186992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: margins3 and preparation both care about the exact value of the cycle cap < 1457309038 194334 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1457309044 73983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of them could be modified to handle a different cycle cap, but would need the modification < 1457309051 960869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you killed hackego? < 1457309063 185375 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or at least its bfjoust or something < 1457309067 358085 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what other command does it have? < 1457309078 700721 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1457309080 505041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot, not HackEgo. < 1457309080 677005 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe it's still stuck on the first one and doesn't start to run the rest <-- i think so. i haven't seen any response since then. < 1457309082 387790 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1457309092 837342 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo hi < 1457309093 79433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf8 ++++++++[->++++++++<]>. < 1457309093 440407 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1457309093 609374 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ < 1457309111 422902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo often did have problems with concurrent submissions < 1457309123 101689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe there's some sort of locking involved < 1457309128 559127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that breaks on a time out < 1457309147 635143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/HackEgo/EgoBot/g/recently < 1457309179 102814 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you mean if I submit two programs at the same time, I can get it to break and allow two of my knights on the same tapes? < 1457309197 188410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a tendency to rerun apparently unrelated results < 1457309200 153576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus confusing the output < 1457309213 837365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was normally visible in http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/breakdown.txt < 1457309218 133546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wow, look at that atm < 1457309220 826288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of invalid unicode < 1457309239 418758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and output interspersed in other output < 1457309244 168748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/breakdown.txt < 1457309247 776466 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2016-03-07 00:07:05 URL:http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/breakdown.txt [8451/8451] -> "breakdown.txt" [1] < 1457309249 200728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the benefit of logreaders) < 1457309258 393275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste breakdown.txt < 1457309260 393265 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/breakdown.txt < 1457309264 426811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm breakdown.txt < 1457309266 972270 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457309268 381695 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest (.)*-2 3 < 1457309268 514776 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Program name ((.)*-2) is restricted to characters in [a-zA-Z0-9_-], sorry. < 1457309273 58322 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest f (.)*-2< < 1457309273 368038 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.f: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309278 147968 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (.)*-2< < 1457309278 441016 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309280 728440 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (.)*-0< < 1457309280 861794 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309291 899329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your paste link no longer works, now that you removed the file. < 1457309293 920299 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*0 < 1457309294 123003 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309296 822025 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*-0 < 1457309297 16038 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309298 544345 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*--0 < 1457309298 760089 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309303 278449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"breakdown.txt@d57f8e8d353c: not found in manifest" < 1457309303 411708 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*-----0 < 1457309303 545333 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.12, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309314 151341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: seriously? I thought it'd permalink :-( < 1457309315 331150 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (.)*-----1< < 1457309315 464654 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309319 583028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1457309321 934085 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messing with parsing. \o/ < 1457309325 271427 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. < 1457309328 126795 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how this parses. < 1457309329 670540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste < breakdown.txt < 1457309330 685177 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/%3C%20breakdown.txt < 1457309335 846894 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)* < 1457309336 47410 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309336 786676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` paste < breakdown.txt < 1457309339 311963 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*----- < 1457309339 524964 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.12, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309340 902897 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.32218 < 1457309341 36376 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*-----1 < 1457309341 210966 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.12, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309342 554765 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)*-----0 < 1457309342 897873 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.12, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309344 870167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1457309348 102644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm breakdown.txt < 1457309350 356965 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1457309363 755759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's an "optimization" to not generate a new file when given a file name. < 1457309384 429926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the invalid characters in breakdown.txt seemed to be just 0 bytes. < 1457309384 563401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, poor HackEgo < 1457309388 478486 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)% < 1457309388 685993 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309395 515958 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)% 1 < 1457309395 690510 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309402 184375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was guessing NUL bytes, they're a common symptom of two concurrent accesses to the same file without locking < 1457309402 675064 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)%CC1 < 1457309402 808627 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309404 856922 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)%C-C1 < 1457309405 119849 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309411 664226 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<)%C-1 < 1457309411 797360 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309427 616479 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canonization is going to be a pain. < 1457309479 239027 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Does zemhill work in privmsg? < 1457309482 343225 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1457309509 394944 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Is there a reason you aren't using it then? < 1457309510 351662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also over the Web, although it can't auth you there < 1457309514 17069 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (<) < 1457309514 223080 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309515 401310 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1457309520 222172 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test {<} < 1457309520 355428 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457309545 134102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : {} with no matching () < 1457309648 229701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (<)%C-1 gets interpreted (by zemhill) identically to (<)*-1, while (<)%C-C1 is just the empty program. < 1457309657 872276 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1457309663 457071 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it tokenizes somehow. < 1457309669 248183 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-1[<<] < 1457309673 958614 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test >-1[<<] < 1457309674 92126 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309678 940869 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test >*-1[<<] < 1457309679 74110 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457309682 582510 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test >()*-1[<<] < 1457309682 831173 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309693 752871 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context sensitive too. < 1457309703 383713 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry for breaking the bot < 1457309711 955385 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is a LISP that compiles to JS a reasonable goal for a first transpiler? < 1457309717 201527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :juiced responds to "(>)C*-1" with ") not followed by % or *" < 1457309723 111855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you can call it that. It's more that it ignores "non-meaningful" characters in most contexts, except after it's found the start of the number. So the C before the - is skipped, but the C between - and 1 isn't, so the count's just 0 for the latter. < 1457309724 648544 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IYHONHO? < 1457309729 655735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: it's not terrible, especially as javascript has first-class functions < 1457309737 140228 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's what I was thinking < 1457309746 967985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also surely you mean IYHONSHO? < 1457309747 750426 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The part I was scared of is quote and unquote < 1457309750 411432 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to gather all the programs that ever existed on the hill < 1457309756 244030 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm working on a component to canonicalize stuff. < 1457309762 507078 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What does THAT mean? < 1457309785 765933 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mine was "In Your Humble (Or Not Humble) Opinion") < 1457309795 793461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not so humble" < 1457309798 317542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could actually say it treats anything that's not +-<>.,[](){}*%0123456789 as whitespace, and ignores whitespace except in the middle of a number. < 1457309803 321806 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah < 1457309804 360008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by analogy with IMNSHO < 1457309814 520150 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is that the one I use, or is that common? < 1457309820 636191 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMNSHO that is < 1457309845 988500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, (>)*C-1 seems to be interpreted as (>)*0 by juiced < 1457309856 337685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, as (>)*0-C by juicd < 1457309862 841988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the - is parsed as an instruction) < 1457309864 3860 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I independently discovered IMNSHO, but it may already have been known < 1457309880 631165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be fairly common, especially on usenet < 1457309883 943554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not used much nowadays < 1457309884 170858 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1457309903 84273 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still see “IMNSHO” in irc I think. < 1457309908 537522 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMNSHO, it should be used more < 1457309938 111141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I used to have a ") not followed by % or *" error, but then some program in the sample sets contained something akin to (this is a comment where there's (something) in parentheses)*0. < 1457309951 459870 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause ((({})*999999)*9999999)*999999 < 1457309951 672019 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457309964 470367 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zemhill is rather more resilient < 1457309969 958155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I dislike it when hill interps are permissive, as that means I have to correct other people's programs for local testing < 1457310021 959153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there was a controversy about "()* 1" and "() *1" (as opposed to the uncontroversial "()*1 ") which I had to patch in juiced at one point < 1457310032 281023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have any hope of compatibility with what other people were doing < 1457310034 195366 :JX7P!~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh, manually written parsers. damnit Geany < 1457310056 561244 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(hppavilion) / sizeof(hppavilion[0]) < 1457310098 134771 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr some programs had to be patched when the grammar changed (disallowing unmatched [] in ()*, iirc) < 1457310115 1620 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accepted grammar < 1457310121 171982 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause ((({.})*999999)*9999999)*999999 < 1457310121 520775 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310122 299941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"help ()*0 comments" says the commit message which introduced that change. < 1457310136 630717 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause ((({.})*999999)*9999999)%999999 < 1457310136 933344 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310140 48275 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1457310144 128042 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause ((({.}.)*999999)*9999999)%999999 < 1457310144 447652 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310151 106336 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: try adding some % < 1457310166 685620 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause (((({[.}.}.)*999999)*9999999)%999999)%999999 < 1457310166 819188 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: terminating } without a matching { < 1457310171 467902 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest b_jonas_pause (((({{.}.}.)*999999)*9999999)%999999)%999999 < 1457310171 733447 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.b_jonas_pause: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310182 79996 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1457310192 159875 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :near the {} or something < 1457310202 576198 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror } < 1457310202 709622 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: terminating } without a matching { < 1457310205 168463 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror ) < 1457310205 302072 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: terminating ) without a matching ( < 1457310214 259110 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror ([)*1 < 1457310214 392542 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: [..] crossing out of a ({..}) level < 1457310221 880016 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it not match ()* in ()% correctly? < 1457310228 303101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also zemhill considers * and % as synonyms. < 1457310231 23920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror ({)*1(})*1 < 1457310231 155166 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: starting { without a matching } < 1457310234 472348 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1457310235 462202 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1457310249 408546 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror {} < 1457310249 542137 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457310256 524551 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntaxerror ({{}}) < 1457310256 657757 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: encountered { without suitable enclosing ( < 1457310259 642437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: (a{b}c)%n is equivalent to (a)*n b (c)*n < 1457310264 438771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but allows you to match brackets between a and c < 1457310271 406023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is to make it possible to implement efficiently < 1457310271 574324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1457310295 336232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, implementing % takes a little thought and most BF Joust interpreters I've seen from non-#esoteric people omit it < 1457310308 845458 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it would be possible to implement the general parenthesis (which allows unbalanced brackets) too, only more difficult to implement < 1457310319 196061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many interps implement outside-%-matches-inside-{} ? < 1457310327 124510 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : urgh, manually written parsers. damnit Geany <-- the BFJoust ({})% construction is a bit tricky to parse, i don't think it's context-free. < 1457310367 526553 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, with nested {}s. < 1457310373 966065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't it just program ::= program '(' program '{' program '}' program ')' '%' integer ? < 1457310374 147078 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest ({}) < 1457310374 279663 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457310377 879955 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test ({}) < 1457310378 130363 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310383 365065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested {} is the thing that cause problems < 1457310383 610746 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test ({}{}) < 1457310383 744096 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: encountered second { on a same level < 1457310387 906209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure if it's widely implemented anyway < 1457310388 248076 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (({}{})) < 1457310388 381335 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: encountered second { on a same level < 1457310391 236456 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (({}){}) < 1457310391 442173 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310397 300891 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it's an noop context < 1457310398 581161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest test (({{}})%2)%2 < 1457310398 833541 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.test: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310400 132047 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not when you allow {}s to match other than immediately enclosing () < 1457310400 265740 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. . . < 1457310423 478329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you'd have to count the brackets in the expansion of every parenthesis, and track a path in the tree for where the program counter is or something like that < 1457310424 844953 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which zemhill and EgoBot both support iirc < 1457310453 408283 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest (({}{})%1)%1 < 1457310453 578470 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457310459 399979 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntx (({}{})%1)%1 < 1457310459 533293 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: error: parse error: encountered second { on a same level < 1457310466 787683 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest syntax (({})%2)%1 < 1457310466 986813 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas.syntax: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457310474 603767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so with a test program of (1(2{3{4}5}6)%2 7)%2 < 1457310476 640514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b{c{d}e}f)%n g)%m => (a(b)*n c)*m d(e(f)*n g)*m, yes. < 1457310498 58506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :juiced outputs 12231223456675667 < 1457310575 168460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a debug output like that, but that's what zemhill should execute as well. < 1457310597 846666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the way juiced's debug output works is < 1457310604 591306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write ()*n in your program (nothing in the brackets) < 1457310653 353286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it outputs n in a way that can be parsed < 1457310673 12949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I run a program against the entire hill, I get the various values of n that were used in any of its runs, broken down via program < 1457310679 563292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that, say, I can write a defence program detector < 1457310681 404478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :put a ()*1 in it < 1457310691 633119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run it and see which enemy programs my own program considers to be defensie < 1457310693 428163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*defensive < 1457310738 707769 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just make an escape < 1457310739 590880 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1457310745 940546 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :($debug command) < 1457310754 922584 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without making it something that normally parses to noop < 1457310836 290046 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$help < 1457310854 653518 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1457310856 283301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: but that'd prevent me putting these into programs submitted to the hill < 1457310857 376672 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No $ bot < 1457310877 945351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^prefixes < 1457310878 78673 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . < 1457310894 233542 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : although I think it would be possible to implement the general parenthesis (which allows unbalanced brackets) too, only more difficult to implement <-- i've thought about that, the problem is you can get _very_ tricky about where exactly in the hierarchy the matching [ to a ] is. < 1457310899 409951 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Bf joust14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46502 5* 03Ais523 5* (+22) 10caps redirect < 1457310924 752116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could've made it ($echo foo)*0 etc. though, so that it's not limited to numbers and could do other sort of commands. < 1457310942 500412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always seems weird seeing a miscapitalization, even though that's the whole point of a caps redirect < 1457310969 938994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: then other people could trigger it using malicious comments < 1457310978 789929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a ()*5 in someone else's program is clearly harmless < 1457311004 771589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest does_this_have_a_distinct_score (+)*-1 < 1457311005 639062 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.does_this_have_a_distinct_score: points -12.88, score 9.15, rank 47/47 < 1457311027 210666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest (<{(+)*-1}.)*0 < 1457311027 344115 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1457311035 842235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest empty_percent (<{(+)*-1}.)%0 < 1457311036 677181 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.empty_percent: points -12.88, score 9.15, rank 47/47 < 1457311052 275139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, that is a hard case to handle correctly (and that is the correct handling of it) < 1457311092 610527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tested juiced, it seems broken on it :-( < 1457311096 488144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the whole thing is a no-op on juiced) < 1457311115 672009 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps I should make Thoof Bot? < 1457311122 754144 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: One where you can add arbitrary axioms? < 1457311128 554093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: you can just add an interpreter into HackEgo, can't you? < 1457311132 625912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it was originally meant to be for < 1457311136 849274 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, right < 1457311140 365716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :before people started filling it with quotes and wisdom, anyway < 1457311154 377798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very occasionally it is actually used for its intended purpose < 1457311155 790175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311157 253787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311157 400869 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :579) it's not a list of /all/ interesting esolangs, btw; otherwise you can take the first command from the first esolang, the second from the second, the third from the third, etc, then add 1 to all of them and you get a new interesting esolang diagonal principle… < 1457311158 89883 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) The system I kind of have in mind makes a flying train a natural consequence. < 1457311158 701854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311159 444166 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :605) elliott, cars aren't perfectly spherical. < 1457311160 195514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311160 925751 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :703) Why does CL get called functional? it's sort of like how you call ancient greece democratic. < 1457311161 694716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1457311162 320901 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1235) `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django < 1457311194 496988 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course, if I do that I have to somehow get it /into/ hackego < 1457311209 647338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: `fetch is your friend < 1457311211 805628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help fetch < 1457311211 992094 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1457311217 801093 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but I'm an idiot < 1457311226 698648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that command was mis-parsed and yet somehow gave useful outut anyway < 1457311255 16862 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is there a HackEgo API I can use? < 1457311268 495897 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or perhaps docs on how to write scripts that run on HackEgo? < 1457311276 55789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: see Linux manpages < 1457311278 127941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just Linux < 1457311280 299925 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps < 1457311356 916888 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going to start looking into how the Thoof command API should work < 1457311396 452645 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose putting it in HackEgo's better as I don't need to make a full bot this way, AND it'll practically always be online < 1457311436 27898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people actually hate python < 1457311460 84464 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shit < 1457311464 300333 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer's not charging < 1457311467 724629 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the outlet is working < 1457311473 678269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my enduring impression of it is just this perfectly inoffensive language, but you can always find people who hate a given language < 1457311480 407792 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try another outlet out of ill-thought-out desperation < 1457311496 141360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't hate it /that/ much but I still have a pretty dim view of it < 1457311504 692997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough to get into flame wars with Python fans on occasion < 1457311532 19738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: check that the other end of the power wire (the one that's not connected to the socket) is connected to the charger < 1457311539 10760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a reasonably common failure mode and one that's confused me a bunch in the past < 1457311548 771811 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did < 1457311577 418488 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god < 1457311578 736708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's also possible for the charger to become disconnected from the laptop in a way that's non-obvious; this is rarer but it's happened a few times) < 1457311583 725684 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on and off charging < 1457311594 937650 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on my angle of sitting < 1457311597 928949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that makes it very likely that the end next to the laptop is loose < 1457311603 244527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just push it in a bit further < 1457311613 283556 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's as far as it'll safely go < 1457311618 72932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457311621 434135 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the cord might be shot < 1457311626 332576 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: _you_ get into flame wars? < 1457311630 489040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case it could be – yes < 1457311643 814722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they are pretty tame by flame war standards < 1457311653 690701 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were this perfectly inoffensive guy. < 1457311669 166487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more that I'm so inoffensive that I will consider even something pretty minor to be a flame war < 1457311813 89569 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1457311849 45007 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ACHOO* < 1457311921 169342 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Should the Thoof have different proofspaces? < 1457311926 568558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :editor flame wars are fun, I typically take the side of emacs and vim versus everything else < 1457311954 260821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I can get most of the emacs /and/ vim users round to my side, thus catching out all the other-editor-users who thought they were safe < 1457311963 509667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: I have no idea < 1457311975 314813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest, I'm probably not the right person to ask about a Thue-based proof assistant < 1457311996 291833 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A proofspace being that you have to do `thoof-addax "" < 1457312072 657766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, global state in IRC bots has a tendency to get trampled on < 1457312079 591294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're going to base it on deductive term rewriting? < 1457312097 836288 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes; it's based on string rewriting, to be exact < 1457312103 754363 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With s/// < 1457312136 232620 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457312169 593430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't you end up basically implementing a typed lambda calculus in thue, what with curry-howard? < 1457312181 435054 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm trying to decide whether to shove all the axioms in a global namespace or to be precise and specific and allow different proofs < 1457312194 155334 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Huh? < 1457312194 527031 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote editor flame wars are fun, I typically take the side of emacs and vim versus everything else normally I can get most of the emacs /and/ vim users round to my side, thus catching out all the other-editor-users who thought they were safe < 1457312196 591206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1271) editor flame wars are fun, I typically take the side of emacs and vim versus everything else normally I can get most of the emacs /and/ vim users round to my side, thus catching out all the other-editor-users who thought they were safe < 1457312208 849279 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How is string rewriting typed lambda calculus < 1457312213 161499 :vyv!~vyv@142.114.229.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457312240 36993 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :string rewriting isn't, but to get logic working properly i think you'll end up with a typed LC < 1457312325 927142 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There are a variety of ways to do what you want in it < 1457312329 272194 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, global state in IRC bots has a tendency to get trampled on <-- we don't like _too_ much global state change in HackEgo, it clutters up the history browser. < 1457312345 208965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1457312360 743724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps HackEgo should have some non-versioned temporary state, too < 1457312369 366340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that we can expect to get blown away on a regular basis < 1457312399 492217 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ACHOO* more nosedrops -> < 1457312407 876772 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, interesting approach to editor flame wars < 1457312415 851533 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Typed λ-calculus is one way to do things, but it is not necessary < 1457312416 955672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like presumably you'll want some way to express the statement "forall x, A(x) implies B(x)" where A, B are some formulaic statements about x < 1457312481 433083 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's possible, but not how you go about it < 1457312510 87138 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Thoof is based on proving strings from other strings together with substitutions < 1457312514 6612 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some rewriting rule that lets you turn a proof of that, and an x, and a proof of A(x) into a proof of B(x) < 1457312529 136582 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can do that, but that's not the goal < 1457312566 841379 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Substitutions are based on PCRE regexes, Phantom_Hoover. < 1457312606 683486 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just describing a string rewriting system here, not a string rewriting system that implements a proof assistant < 1457312653 884682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it a proof assistant you'll have to define some kind of encoding of logic into your strings, and rewriting rules that let you make deductions < 1457312683 634131 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust strategies14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46503&oldid=46497 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1501) 10/* Synchronization */ renamed to /* Reconnaissance */ mention the strategy Lymia.nyuroki uses, expand/adapt a bit < 1457312698 647587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the deduction and rule i described above, which is essentially function application < 1457312755 892765 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust strategies14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46504&oldid=46503 5* 03Ais523 5* (+11) 10/* Decoy detection */ replace gratuitous Markdown with actual wikimarkup (I posted wikimarkup to a Markdown-using forum a little earlier, so the reverse error a few minutes later is perhaps not that unexpected) < 1457312896 566089 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457312988 936086 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You create axioms and theorems from said axioms and apply the axioms/theorems to other axioms until you get what you want < 1457312994 601477 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sounds like a proof assistant to me < 1457313012 189163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, i never said otherwise < 1457313034 963215 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The axioms are strings, s/// expressions, and y/// expressions < 1457313047 643724 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You prove strings, and those strings can represent other things < 1457313059 104126 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have to construct things like numbers though < 1457313060 928383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does a y/// expression do < 1457313072 501813 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Character-by-character substitution, like in Sed < 1457313085 948661 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Less common than s///, but still potentially VERY useful < 1457313118 194772 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y/S/s/ < 1457313224 651752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you made any concrete proofs or anything with this? i'd like to have a clear idea of what you're thinking of < 1457313236 664965 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, I proved 3+2=5 < 1457313240 406039 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Using Peano arithmetic < 1457313247 346186 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more construction than proof, but close enough < 1457313256 382339 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So do you think it'd be better to have one big proofspace, sort of like lambdabot's functionspace, or multiple proofspaces like in any rational thing ever? < 1457313299 502563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a source file or something for it? < 1457313311 496647 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://pastebin.com/Ax2v5XSV < 1457313322 851141 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's the paste, but I also have the github if you like < 1457313357 851544 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, crap, wrong file < 1457313390 202515 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: https://github.com/ZodiacWorkingGroup/Thoof/blob/master/construct.thoof < 1457313393 408309 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read that < 1457313428 622469 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Note that the main theorem no longer shows 2+3=5, it instead was made for dealing with lists < 1457313496 718145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's \g? < 1457313605 973914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm, found a cheatsheet < 1457313730 383290 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Group reference < 1457313742 802032 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: PCRE groups are invaluable in Thoof proving < 1457313859 419636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'd argue that's because they make it easy to beta reduce < 1457313896 852634 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Agreed < 1457313909 447603 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so, single- or multi- proofspace? < 1457313937 415730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :single, theorem prover naming schemes are a clusterfuck regardless < 1457313943 33415 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single is easier, but more unwieldy < 1457313949 332871 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1457313959 783135 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll add multiple in a later version < 1457313980 214154 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Alternatively, I could speed up the ONLINE thoof, and just publish that sooner and add a sharing feature < 1457314090 577252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1457314092 85728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEAD :: s/(?P[^:]*).*/\g/; < 1457314114 448032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't that clear the entire expression after the first colon... OK i guess that's what you want < 1457314120 952063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you had a nested array though? < 1457314248 314813 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That isn't supported in the construction yet < 1457314260 686863 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Mostly because I have NFC how to do it using regexes alone < 1457314270 963339 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably some PCRE bullshit that detects nested parenthesis < 1457314308 629801 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Think I should just make Thoof's online impl sooner instead of something complicated on IRC < 1457314361 657357 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you want to keep the rest, you have to do something complicated with the filesys and stuff (yes, Thoof is going to support a Unix filesys as part of its provingness) < 1457314434 82401 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Besides, what do you expect it to do with the tail of the list? < 1457314530 607445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that wasn't the issue, it's the fact that it can't recurse and it can't apply < 1457314637 201426 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is TC actually < 1457314652 456701 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The fixpoint operator makes it reduce to Thue < 1457314662 509827 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fixpoint is when you prefix an application with @) < 1457314714 955114 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It also supports pattern matching and multiproving < 1457314766 450062 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zplvfafixaoinknh QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457314775 559905 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hrvqlpezfzrdkyro JOIN :#esoteric < 1457314993 46448 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457315489 619000 :andrew__!~andrew@112.90.37.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457315548 601195 :andrew__!~andrew@112.90.37.236 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457315792 918938 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457316020 325199 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457316487 327850 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457316489 992743 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1457316508 554865 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hi < 1457316715 80764 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Is that a DEFCON, or a countdown? < 1457316735 809175 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What part? The [1]? < 1457316745 259622 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1457316757 677141 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2941 < 1457316764 788472 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: My nick is usually hppavilion[1] < 1457316770 332411 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: The [2] is my backup nick < 1457316778 855299 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Which I sometimes am too lazy to change back to [1] < 1457316787 957028 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: It's an array index, hth < 1457316796 468477 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you rivals with hppavilion[0]? hppavilion prime? < 1457316843 470966 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought so, hence my attempt to sizeof(hppavilion) / sizeof(hppavilion[0]), earlier < 1457316900 727824 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457316943 631000 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: hppavilion['wc'] is my alter ego, when hexchat stops working. It's very strange and causes a type error in most languages. < 1457316963 451553 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How rude < 1457317026 101964 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Also, I'm not an array so much as a haskell-like list < 1457317043 560761 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: But one that can be indexed with [] in postfix, because I'm written in haskll < 1457317046 471646 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*haskell < 1457317051 518441 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm written in Jskell < 1457317057 755133 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jayskell < 1457317743 13663 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457318136 196932 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457318136 882058 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :godammn windows update holding computer hostage < 1457318296 802277 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is shutting down now! < 1457318387 117097 :augur!~augur@50-1-126-214.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1457318684 571383 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1457319437 243865 :andrew__!~andrew@113.97.176.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457319445 333665 :andrew__!~andrew@113.97.176.134 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1457319766 652226 :blockzombie!~blockzomb@eth59-167-133-100.static.internode.on.net PART :#esoteric < 1457320612 275134 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: As an arbitrary selection, I have a question: Which should I put effort into first- a Haskell-like language that compiles to JS (jayskell), or a LISPy language that also compiles to JS? < 1457320627 934855 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Or some other language format? < 1457320708 409038 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of software do you want to write? < 1457320759 673012 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Fun software that runs on the web < 1457320881 725818 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs on the web? like on people's browsers or on servers? < 1457320985 710376 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: In browsers < 1457321020 668737 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It's just another language that compiles to JS so we don't have to use that godawful language and can instead use one we're more familiar with the mindset of < 1457321041 723751 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS isn't THAT bad < 1457321063 792744 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: It's pretty bad < 1457321067 339029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to think JavaScript is pretty good actually < 1457321082 447686 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It may be good for its niche, but it isn't very good in general < 1457321083 226652 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing a X client library in JavaScript. < 1457321104 638832 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wrote a Z-machine implementation in JavaScript, too. < 1457321125 46027 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I heard < 1457321145 83791 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1457321154 530293 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 27% battery and can't get my charger to work < 1457321234 31767 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457321334 925276 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1457321411 780290 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457321433 258495 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1457321793 966600 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457322129 270537 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457322160 73039 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1457322287 813287 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: What paradigms would be good for web that haven't been done much yet? < 1457322985 554791 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457324685 799269 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457324864 674973 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-188-109-008-107.188.109.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457325379 35195 :zgrep!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevbiojbkxyvopgg PRIVMSG #esoteric :If what people have done to the web so far is to be taken into account, then apparently all of them. < 1457325494 323049 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything stateful would be good for the web < 1457325642 997844 :treaki_!~treaki@p54BF2B27.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1457325887 709270 :treaki__!~treaki@p5B11CAD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1457325998 239615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ther are no paradigms that are good for web? < 1457326054 495017 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1457326496 332594 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1457326853 813137 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457326868 784512 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it could have the model where instead of having a single script control gfx elements like buttons and so forth < 1457326888 495921 :AlexR42!~textual@94.41.128.148 QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1457326919 176576 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could instead have buttons etc and you attach an individual script to a button/object < 1457326949 535816 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with easy callbacks like :onclick() < 1457326998 551041 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and individual scripts each have their own thread < 1457327024 511120 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gets a timeslice until the next wait() statement every displayed frame < 1457327076 158560 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure why I am awake but I am < 1457327207 783265 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you do not sleep < 1457327267 785442 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1457328042 564752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: because when you're tired, it makes it harder to make decisions, and one such decision is to go to sleep < 1457328055 932189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is something I have problems with myself < 1457328082 675931 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually, I went to bed at half past ten < 1457328093 473239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am or pm? < 1457328096 298710 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :pm < 1457328110 601234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:30 to 5:21 is about 7 hours < 1457328118 161416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a reasonable amount of night's sleep < 1457328123 497890 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got out of bed at 4:40 < 1457328134 306881 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :First woke up at 3:27 < 1457328137 639994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1457328141 604540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get out of bed long after I wake up < 1457328147 646932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's at least partly because I do most of my work in bed < 1457328267 97199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, a spambot is trying to sell me web design services: < 1457328275 439272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1.) Website Design & Redesign - (Logo design, Flash, Photoshop to HTML/ HTML5)" < 1457328308 163060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure how this parses, but it seems to involve "Photoshop to HTML" either as a unit or as part of a larger whole, no matter how it's parsed < 1457328359 675418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also apparently do Windows Phone and Blackberry in addition to Android and iPhone < 1457328394 826518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of app development < 1457328845 963849 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol flash < 1457328873 156566 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Furthermore, if one counts demonstrations *not* based on quantum computing, some people have claimed even earlier precedents for [the theorem that 3 \times 5 = 15]." < 1457328916 535273 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like an occasionally useful theorem. < 1457328952 62318 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, scott aaronson is hopeful that quantum computing will soon be able to tackle the factorization of large numbers like 91 < 1457328965 434094 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One does wonder. < 1457329041 656751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what do you think of the theory that quantum computing will prove the many-worlds hypothesis of quantum mechanics via violating bounds on the processing power that can exist in one universe? < 1457329059 617956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something like that /is/ the case, it could be that "large" quantum computers are impossible to construct < 1457329067 397523 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum computers sound like something that's great for the NSA to have but not really for anyone else < 1457329085 622804 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that's a stupid view < 1457329103 864555 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :many-worlds is not really a theory so much as an interpretation < 1457329105 702019 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad, I hope it's useful because next year I'm doing two modules on them < 1457329119 294713 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the science fiction authors who ran with it and then everybody started getting philosophical < 1457329119 427843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: having faster algorithms often ends up having applications unrelated to crypto < 1457329121 624977 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1457329141 162686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was going to say "is there a quantum solution to the travelling salesman problem" < 1457329151 656748 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457329155 335883 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which you mean BQP, presumably? < 1457329164 912715 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : I think there might be < 1457329172 563717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: by which I meant a quantum computer, but then I remembered NP =? BQP < 1457329176 10435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and realised the question wasn't interesting < 1457329185 740984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except inasmuch as NP =? BQP is interesting < 1457329245 392301 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, many-worlds as physicists think of it is rather less silly than what philosophers think. :) < 1457329267 332556 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "philosophers". < 1457329285 663965 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference between the physicists' many-worlds? < 1457329295 702223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just a debate about whether the universe uses threads or processes < 1457329333 264008 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physicists notion of "many-worlds" is basically just "for each possible state in a quantum superposition, those states can be said to exist." < 1457329355 342225 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what about "many-worlds" in linear logic twh < 1457329371 589820 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :importantly < 1457329381 762041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and /now/ I'm reminded of the proof that God exists due to God being defined as having all positive qualities, and existence is a positive < 1457329391 34207 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :many-worlds (usually) makes no actual predictions, so it's not really a hypothesis < 1457329394 632861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not convinced that that holds up either logically or theologically < 1457329409 988266 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more precisely < 1457329410 213945 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : that's a classic < 1457329414 427099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how do you define a positive quality anyway?) < 1457329430 418024 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument goes "consider the greatest possible being. This being must exist, because if it didn't, surely a being that existed would be greater." < 1457329438 348650 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which presupposes the existence of a greatest possible being < 1457329448 921126 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, many-worlds really is just "well, this is what the equations describe". < 1457329449 846868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well if there aren't infinitely many beings… < 1457329450 487205 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it has all sorts of logical flaws < 1457329488 245285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I think that argument is equivalent to "nothing is better than eternal life, a ham sandwich is better than nothing, therefore a ham sandwich is better than eternal life" < 1457329506 267078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the "greatest" is a "greatest hypothetical", the other is a "greatest currently existing", and the two are conflated < 1457329508 856620 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: infinitely many *possible* beings, though? < 1457329522 564966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I remember reading about this in a Smullyan book. < 1457329523 771307 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention the assumption of an upper bound, which not all posets possess < 1457329525 57649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's conflating two different things and hoping you don't notice < 1457329539 41901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you say that everything exists, or that existence is a property that some things have and some things don't? < 1457329555 324147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd say that that question is a debate about the meaning of the word "everything" < 1457329572 924505 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept of a perfect god has many qualities < 1457329593 140824 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the real-world existance is not a quality of that concept < 1457329596 449259 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy the Stewart/Cohen/Pratchett characterization of the argument as being an "argument from God" rather than an "argument for God" < 1457329623 427711 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since real-world existance is a quality of the real world, not a quality of concepts < 1457329696 387850 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a c++ class having a variable that's not in the computer < 1457329732 648256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I read that correctly the first time, looked back to it, looked at it again, and misparsed it as meaning something like "the real world defines itself to exist" < 1457329752 881402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, depending on what you mean by "class having a variable", that's totally possible < 1457329759 215595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have network-abstracted getters and setters < 1457329762 423388 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm like... "this fomulation is clumsy" < 1457329803 906790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if stable time loops could exist in real life < 1457329808 107003 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : well then it's not really a variable, it's something that pretends being a variable with setters and getters < 1457329814 387255 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: theoretically, yes < 1457329818 377516 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: CTCs < 1457329836 696404 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascinatingly, depending on their exact properties, they may or may not allow for increased computing power < 1457329847 966526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was eye-opening doing the maths for my semantics and discovering that it worked perfectly fine without causality < 1457329856 209153 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible, in a many-worlds universe < 1457329869 821930 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: question doesn't make sense < 1457329873 884354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to add causality to get it to reflect the thing it was meant to model < 1457329874 405362 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :many-worlds makes no predictions < 1457329874 709601 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an universe to essentially be a dead-end so that < 1457329886 749443 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the thing that most makes me want to get a physics phd < 1457329904 349784 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that quantum field theory, the most advanced understanding of the microscale world that we have, has no causa,ity < 1457329907 353654 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*causality < 1457329922 597995 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the universe gets to that dead end, decides that it's not possible, so that path is eliminated so that the universe goes through some other path < 1457329925 975826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :causality really isn't something that drops naturally out of maths and physics < 1457329952 296251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe there's a really deep philosophical meaning behind "sometimes things just happen", a phrase whose truth value I've seen heavily debated (but not really with arguments, mostly as a shouting match) < 1457329966 535972 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has the side effect of skewing event probability statistics for situations that can lead to "dead end" paths < 1457329998 871261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: this is the theory behind quantum bogosort < 1457330017 37125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should probably never be implemented, because imagine what would happen if you were wrong about how physics works? < 1457330018 422421 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it isn't. It comes from thermodynamics, but calling them the "laws" of thermodynamics overstates them... I cringe every time I hear something "proven" due to thermodynamics < 1457330048 136522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well the laws of thermodynamics are observations which, so far, appear to hold in the universe < 1457330052 453203 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1457330066 232717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if we have explanations for why they're true, they're just a data point for helping to understand things < 1457330068 540581 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are defined in terms of causality < 1457330088 502889 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically the directionality of time < 1457330096 545970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they're time-asymmetric < 1457330099 322460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty rare, really < 1457330102 407413 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457330105 239153 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a huge problem < 1457330108 767938 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :qft is not < 1457330116 421129 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1457330124 975653 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's CPT-symmetric < 1457330148 669233 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a very intereting paper out there on the arxiv discussing the thermodynamics of antimatter < 1457330194 167542 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : well, I was wondering if this "universe suicide" naturally happens due to the laws of physics < 1457330213 394890 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it describes models of antimatter where the thermodynamics work parallel or antiparallel to our own, the consequences, and concludes that both are compatible < 1457330234 215942 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with physics as we know it, not with each other < 1457330234 962990 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1457330237 149734 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the probability density of some event is due to the relative probability of each resulting universe of not comitting universe-suicide < 1457330238 469542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: so you mean that you think it's impossible to set up a situation in which the universe will eventually be destroyted? < 1457330239 723973 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but either result is fascinating < 1457330253 868548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that things that would make it easier to happen are less probable as a result? < 1457330267 573728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm, what if it's undecidable? < 1457330272 821296 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not < 1457330273 92357 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : well, for a specific kind of universe destroying < 1457330276 933797 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a physical property of the universe < 1457330288 952257 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :observable, even < 1457330302 797170 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : like as if the whole universe decides 'no' and that path is removed from the possibilities retroactively < 1457330306 16708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case there's not much point in wondering until we get to observe it < 1457330319 52490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: as I said, this is how quantum bogosort "works" < 1457330319 992279 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's worth thinking of an experiment < 1457330329 454076 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : right < 1457330332 93162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how quickly quantum computers can sort things
< 1457330334 649101 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if antimatter is parallel to matter, then QFT is incomplete because thermodynamics breaks CPT symmetry < 1457330352 609189 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: n log n < 1457330376 472377 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if antimatter is antiparallel to matter, then there are regions where thermodynamics work locally backward (though, still, globally forward, assuming a strong enough matter surplus) < 1457330392 910665 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my limited understanding of quantum computers is that basically it's got a distinct independent probability for every combination of qubits in it < 1457330398 403860 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you collapse it < 1457330411 999418 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: not independent < 1457330413 638812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: probabilities can be entangled < 1457330418 681913 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rather the point < 1457330430 319393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you couldn't do useful computation with it otherwise < 1457330448 654295 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's why I said probability for "combinations of qubits" instead of probability for "qubits" < 1457330458 682591 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're not independent < 1457330462 995562 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are not probabilities < 1457330491 163805 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quantum system of n qubits is viewed as a 2^n vector, one entry corresponding to each possibly binary state, yes < 1457330492 435625 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's that weird complex domain thing where the probability is the square of the magnitude right? < 1457330497 14516 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457330516 416589 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :each entry is a complex number with the condition that the vector must have norm 1 < 1457330536 510420 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an n-qubit system is a point on the 2^n-dimensional complex unit sphere < 1457330571 996239 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you measure, the probabilities collapse to classical ones by taking the magnitude squared < 1457330595 983813 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you manipulate qubits, the fact that entries are complex can lead to unintuitive results < 1457330633 819191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sort of thing is what causes wave/particle duality < 1457330647 975872 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the H gate < 1457330650 362847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum electrodynamics has some strong predictive power < 1457330655 502553 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457330715 819658 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :H(1) is a state with 50% propability for 0 and 1, H(0) is a state with 50% propability for 0 and 1, H(H(1)) is 1 and H(H(0)) is 0 < 1457330733 643285 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's a great example < 1457330759 174248 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :X, Y, and Z are boring by comparison < 1457330795 684685 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me a while to make sense < 1457330804 626792 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are great youtube videos < 1457330819 503000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented shor's algorithm as an a level project < 1457330840 624765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not on a quantum computer, obviously; on a simulator on a regular CPU that did arithmetic on the quantum probabilities) < 1457330868 651102 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a pretty fantastic professor < 1457330870 671377 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the point at one video where someone told he could emulate up to 8 qubits but that would take tbs of ram < 1457330885 621874 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457330902 789946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor 15 < 1457330913 172433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone factorizes it because they don't have any other options < 1457330913 415398 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the lectures were recorded and put up as private videos on youtube too < 1457330955 737638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how useful is that as a student? they're trying to make that happen here but many of the staff are very uncomfortable with it < 1457330977 587283 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: extremely < 1457330979 675607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gathering more data would be useful to help me know what my opinion should be < 1457330998 436844 :hppavilion[wc]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457331001 892861 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I even attended those lectures < 1457331033 50213 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting them up privately is an interesting decision < 1457331035 668691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a ton of students who write down everything the lecturer says, which I never really understood < 1457331053 433836 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them find it easier to learn that way < 1457331082 348672 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them just want reference material that actually matches up to the lectures (which rarely correspond to the textbook, if any, used) < 1457331086 503632 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them don't know better < 1457331096 160253 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also interesting that you say "staff" < 1457331105 623103 :vyv!~vyv@142.114.229.66 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1457331110 478206 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean teaching staff? < 1457331116 434534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what do you expect me to have said? but yes, teaching staff < 1457331136 256875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the sysadmins are a little annoyed too but mostly in a "more work" sort of way < 1457331159 554631 :vyv!~vyv@142.114.229.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457331227 214084 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if "rejected" universes of the multiverse don't "selfdestruct" like in quantum bogosort but go backwards in time and make themselves impossible? (ok I clearly don't know enough about quantum physics to ask this but I'm still curious) < 1457331236 533069 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here, the distinction between "staff" and "faculty" is quite sharply draw < 1457331239 552491 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drawn < 1457331255 149610 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do some of students know how to write shorthand so that they can write everything they say? < 1457331255 392647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, probably just an international language variant thing < 1457331261 322886 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: it's not really a physics question < 1457331266 440020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of the word "faculty" being a word but am not really sure what it means < 1457331277 696063 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not neceessarily, because there's a class aspect to it < 1457331279 750700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: possibly, but it's common for students to ask lecturers to wait so that the student can finish writing < 1457331291 899135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't, as a lecturer, really talk faster than the slowest student writes anyway < 1457331296 95222 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :faculty are the professors and, increasingly, lecturers < 1457331301 91215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn faculty < 1457331302 600738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "faculty" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1457331302 734887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :faculty < 1457331302 734961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: one of the inherent cognitive or perceptual powers of the < 1457331302 734984 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mind [syn: {faculty}, {mental faculty}, {module}] < 1457331302 735003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2: the body of teachers and administrators at a school; "the < 1457331304 589257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : dean addressed the letter to the entire staff of the < 1457331306 591454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : university" [syn: {staff}, {faculty}] < 1457331322 909629 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ranking administrators, of course, since they must be professors themselves < 1457331324 628246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordnet has a "syn:" on the words < 1457331337 780630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, there's a rule that administrators must be professors? < 1457331339 838754 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: many professors here simply go as fast as they can explain the math, and it's up to you to catch up < 1457331353 640143 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyone with authority over a professor must be. < 1457331367 323974 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then you must learn shorthand writing < 1457331369 897194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here the main problem with finding qualified people to administrate is to persuade them to take the job, few people want to < 1457331371 384874 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so department chairs, deans, some vice-presidents, and presidents < 1457331376 74221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the people who do are rarely suited for it < 1457331383 181 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a problem here too, moreso at the department level < 1457331388 625007 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is up to you to catch up. < 1457331397 526875 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the higher ranks, some academics are career administrators and move from school to school < 1457331413 990324 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the senior administrators don't actually teach, mind you < 1457331431 153994 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :academia < 1457331466 41577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's a "central administration" which doesn't teach and isn't attached to a subject < 1457331469 932774 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a strong culture that academics should not be subject to non-academics' authoirty < 1457331487 774870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everyone associated with a subject, including as a head of school or whatever, teaches too, as far as I know < 1457331501 727746 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends how high up you are < 1457331509 880605 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the size of your unit, etc. < 1457331510 13969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do about people like human resources, accounting, etc.? < 1457331517 402096 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the staff < 1457331519 551440 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"staff" < 1457331522 596663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those people have a lot of authority, and sort-of need it to do their jobs < 1457331531 203940 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do, but not direct authority < 1457331534 513608 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad deliberately takes more teaching work in order to avoid administrative work as much as possible < 1457331536 688742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they aren't generally academics and it doesn't make much sense for them to be < 1457331558 606272 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, no academic has a non-academic in their chain of command < 1457331567 289617 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean that the non-academics have no power! < 1457331572 825031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chain of command can be fairly meaningless at times < 1457331588 241784 :hppavilion[wc]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1457331592 306735 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a matter of principle really < 1457331606 845969 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually they avoid a chain of command by having lots of commitees that my dad never attends < 1457331625 527417 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, what does your dad teach? < 1457331630 154445 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's also to reserve academic decisions to the academics < 1457331631 959206 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :math < 1457331642 198017 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one math? < 1457331659 946585 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the suppport staff don't make academic decisions, and they never have academics as reports, the academics can't be told what to teach/research by the non-academics < 1457331685 748714 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, calculus, logic, and operations research (this year) < 1457331713 667509 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice! < 1457331734 257340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: we can basically be limited in what to research by what we can get funding for < 1457331740 469981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which often depends on external entities < 1457331772 487054 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's true here too < 1457331780 33967 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the academics chafe against that, naturally < 1457331792 51605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457331797 44631 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in large part, the real chafing is against the government < 1457331797 177791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the requirements are often bizarre < 1457331801 891330 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'm sure you have there too < 1457331837 725767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not sure, the government is many steps away indirectly, and the EU government probably matters more than the UK government for the purpose < 1457331856 535787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's kind-of specific to being in Europe < 1457331870 475925 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the government controls the purse-strings, though < 1457331883 501381 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, a lot of people here in Ontario are upset with the degree of enrollment growth at universities < 1457331891 562625 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :feeling that it's diluting the quality of education < 1457331903 848644 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the government has decided that funding is allocated based on enrollment growth so up it goes < 1457331960 794294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, rapid increases in attendance can be a problem here too < 1457332006 837610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're building constantly to try to keep up; the building I'm in had its layout changed, e.g. all the common rooms were combined into one and the old ones were converted into offices, just to try to get more office space < 1457332016 226188 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a student I'm not really privy to the inner workings of my university, but it got fined a couple of years ago for taking on more students than it could accomodate < 1457332034 146111 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the problem is that people enroll in degrees and don't learn anything useful, and then complain that they can't pay their loans < 1457332042 813350 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 300 students who were guaranteed on-campus accomodation were housed off-campus (I was one of them) < 1457332044 972032 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest semanticsTest (>(>{})*1)%2 <<< < 1457332045 181083 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.semanticsTest: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457332047 495281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of the land nearby got bought up and now student accommodation is being built on it (in the passive because I'm not entirely sure who's responsible for that happening) < 1457332052 121014 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest semanticsTest (>(>{})*1)%2 <<<<< < 1457332052 294404 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.semanticsTest: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1457332068 803287 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ztest semanticsTest (>(>{})%1)*2 <<< < 1457332069 20445 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.semanticsTest: points -32.14, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1457332071 479101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that's equivalent to (>(>{})%1)*2 < 1457332083 619695 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I was on both of said senate and board as a student representative. It was a fascinating experience. < 1457332084 957245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some a(ba(bcd)*2ed)*2e < 1457332456 143765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next question is "is it useful", but it probably is < 1457332499 665824 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to be less confusing, the BF Joust page should probably just make having )* and )% synonyms is standard, and explain that the two symbols exist for historical reasons. < 1457332510 202262 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least. < 1457332543 542096 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be clear that there's no distinction between )% and )* that lets you make nestings that implementation wouldn't < 1457332548 933365 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1457332552 763220 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they're explicitly forbidden. < 1457332586 459546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could arguably change the semantics again < 1457332601 935509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inside {} matches outside % rule is pretty new, and came out of a discussion in #esoteric < 1457332619 692331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't use it in any of my programs (even though it would have helped a couple of times) because I don't trust interpreters with it < 1457332640 811849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't consider the #esoteric hills to define BF Joust, although IIRC nyuroki was originally written for an implementation that didn't even support %) < 1457332669 94742 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one had a completely different algorithm. < 1457332673 115022 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically a different program. < 1457332708 234248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1457332710 975790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just like the name? < 1457332717 374841 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well. Yeah. Basically. Didn't check before decoys either. < 1457332722 390885 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite < 1457332729 28233 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was originally the same program. < 1457332734 935875 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then lots of changes happened. < 1457332741 777904 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe it should have a 2 on the end. < 1457332742 789700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1457332749 701576 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it didn't < 1457332752 551776 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it doesn't < 1457332768 153241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :margins3 is basically an entirely different program from margins except that it uses the same basic strategy of playing for a draw if conditions in the first few turns don't work out favourably < 1457332801 840111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that is the first time I've used Firefox's "search for an open tab" thing intentionally < 1457332808 889461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get at the zemhill matrix < 1457332815 967158 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both use the same basic strategy still too. < 1457332975 196490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: btw I updated the wiki article to talk about decoy detection < 1457333019 409714 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw. < 1457333048 659441 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, both versions set decoys, then go do a slowish clear. < 1457333075 869291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a description of 90% of hilltopping programs over the last several years < 1457333102 699036 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1457333108 126120 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its strategy for anti-lock was to nest another copy of the clear loop after it falls through (under some conditions) so it does make leaps of faith. < 1457333181 874235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaps of faith are something that IMO you can't do if you're looking for a 100% win rate, but may help if you're only going for topping the hill < 1457333199 519333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, it's possible to do very well by exploiting the existence of leaps of faith on the hill < 1457333249 435362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks if anticipation2 is still there
< 1457333261 946249 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :0% lose rate rather, right? < 1457333271 466323 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If margins had no tripwire < 1457333273 326037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1457333283 431075 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would force leaps of faith, or else, you can't win. < 1457333295 82001 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'd probably take ties too, if margins is willing to. < 1457333295 989702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: oh, by that, I mean it gets a better than 50:50 record against each other program < 1457333307 662038 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1457333308 345407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are programs I've written before now that have pulled that off and /not/ topped the hill at that time < 1457333333 969768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although they did so later; in some cases I may have edited my own programs to lose to them temporarily to give them their moment at the top of the hill) < 1457333360 77623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :margins strikes me as not being the sort of program for which a 100% win rate is feasible < 1457333369 51201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've been wrong before now < 1457333518 293811 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to make a nyuroki 2, or something. < 1457333536 33513 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep the basic approach, but, actually react appropriately to different behaviors. < 1457333548 72279 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of just skipping decoy setup and going straight to rush. < 1457333592 137195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, the basic reactions to behaviours have become so standardised now that people have started exploiting them < 1457333604 747819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :omnipotence trips enemy tripwires intentionally then starts defending, for exampel < 1457333619 755769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tends to cause the opponents to assume fast rush and not use counter-defence mechanisms < 1457333688 517992 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about.. < 1457333703 708207 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set a tripwire right next to your flag, then do the reverse decoy setup? < 1457333704 494006 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457333727 877345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: right, that's what most programs do at the moment < 1457333738 86166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically checking the tripwire every now and then, and panicking if it gets tripped < 1457333761 977910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the basic problem being that you can /detect/ that the enemy is on your flag, but it's much less clear what you're meant to do about it) < 1457333765 900655 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of if there's a case where < 1457333777 685351 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find a conflicting decoy setup, and it matters if the flag tripwire is broken. < 1457333778 295630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :various possibilities involve attempted locks, and careless clears < 1457333813 671217 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might steal Margin's double tripwire here, and just attempt a lock. < 1457333827 804535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if the flag tripwire is broken as the result of a decoy clash you can typically assume that the tape's no longer than about 11 < 1457333866 503500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flag tripwire broken as the result of a deep poke or fast rush is much more likely < 1457333881 262472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in either case, decoys aren't going to help, but it's less clear what you should do instead < 1457334020 37752 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I jumped straight to cell 14 if I didn't find a decoy conflict, in fact. < 1457334042 410763 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be a bad assumption though < 1457334054 166674 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it assumes reverse decoy setups from the opponents. < 1457334069 970086 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing how such a simple game has become so complex < 1457334090 642663 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if I get really bored someday I'll do genetic evolution of bfjoust programs < 1457334094 232358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: well, I think about BF Joust like this: < 1457334098 476381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two main classes of programs < 1457334123 668813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the "standard strategy" programs, for which the actual strategy changes slowly over time, but for which the programs tend to converge < 1457334131 200561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "experimental" programs that are doing something weird < 1457334144 37335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do well you have to beat both classes < 1457334158 438786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beating standard strategy programs normally relies on exploiting their common weaknesses (see, e.g. ais523.counterpoke) < 1457334186 542356 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think BFJoust is ammendable to genetic evolution. < 1457334196 981868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beating experimental programs relies on having a good, resilient strategy (such as a ton of large decoys) that's generally hard to defeat quickly < 1457334205 703280 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to smooth out the fitness landscape somehow < 1457334205 836504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having some sort of valid attack < 1457334216 845485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the best programs for beating experimental programs are normally the standard ones < 1457334250 992938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a programs designed to consistently beat standard programs tends to have to be experimental < 1457334272 815158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but most experimental programs will fail to beat standard programs unless they identify a common weakness that allows them to do so) < 1457334281 396728 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of it might be that Nyuroki's flaws aren't standard at all, so, experimental programs fail to poke at them.. < 1457334335 364787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to analyze nyuroki more, really < 1457334344 591099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically I run programs on tape length 25 against a few other programs to see how they work < 1457334350 33721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that allows you to see the "main strategy" < 1457334367 63850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have more tape length to see the patterns play out) < 1457334376 622553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really hold in cases where decoy clashes, etc., are an intended part of the duel < 1457334393 526100 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is detecting short tape lengths relatively standard now? < 1457334422 890459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally make some attempt at it but it normally isn't very successful < 1457334442 440491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poking has been done for ages, and is definitely part of what I would consider the standard strategy < 1457334445 617217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although the form of the poke varies) < 1457334456 431014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and poking gives a lot of clues about the tape length < 1457334462 207064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty revolutionary when quintopia invented it < 1457334515 38723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Gregor's versions of it (the furry girls) are probably the most definitive; the original quintopia_poke was very primitive < 1457334575 932149 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457334588 130655 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of it is that you can only do so much in the earlier steps of the game. < 1457334605 969165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, ffspg is down at #38 < 1457334607 321577 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't poke after so long < 1457334609 441334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the mighty has fallen < 1457334619 23501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: right, the first few turns are very critical < 1457334624 672803 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think there's still time to do the reverse decoy setup thing after a poke? < 1457334634 935570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you aim to block enemy pokes, set up your own, or a bit of both? < 1457334637 717068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's totally time < 1457334643 292731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you leave a medium decoy on cell 6 or so < 1457334649 581402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hope that the opponent's poke didn't get inside it < 1457334658 646170 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you might just see very directly that the tape is (probably) small. < 1457334660 702177 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it makes sense. < 1457334667 936879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, ofc, time you waste doing that means that you may fail to get inside the opponent's decoys when you could have done otherwise < 1457334671 341628 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leave decoy -> poke -> return to decoy setup. < 1457334691 226124 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get a decoy conflict *then*, either the opponent trails, or you're on a very small tae. < 1457334692 493587 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape* < 1457334724 380296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!egojoust is_this_working_yet (>)*8(>[(+)*8[-]])*21 < 1457334727 158514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1457334730 357843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust is_this_working_yet (>)*8(>[(+)*8[-]])*21 < 1457334755 501746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes < 1457334765 384695 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what do you do with that information? < 1457334769 681614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably work against preparation < 1457334789 797373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, knowing you're on a short tape should bias you towards fast rush programs < 1457334810 836418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :margins3's strategy on a short tape is basically a copy and paste of stealth3, but with some details changed < 1457334828 301533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the stealth series is a fast rush idea I had a while back that I never really got to work < 1457334831 237603 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is sort of what my scripting language is for, at least. for($minimumTapeLength in 1 to 30) { > [ $mainBody($minimumTapeLength) ] } < 1457334835 120924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works much better on short tapes < 1457334979 215210 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :... maybe evolutionary algorithm time? < 1457334979 702279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust this_is_working_yet (>)*8(>[(+)*8[-]])*21 < 1457334980 140282 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.this_is_working_yet: points -8.14, score 13.81, rank 46/47 < 1457334993 130652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, I didn't expect it to do well < 1457334999 717929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't come last! :-D < 1457335016 375451 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start with a fixed block that distinguishes minimum tape lengths and some conditions. < 1457335030 784658 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And give the decoy constants, etc to an evolutionary algorithm to play with. < 1457335033 561205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an evolutionary algorithm for tweaking constants < 1457335036 574745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't use it on margins3, though < 1457335048 690902 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd run it against the set of all programs that existed in BFJoust ever. < 1457335065 547477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically I only use it on programs that are close to the top of the hill to squeeze out a few more points < 1457335084 129449 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique.helloerjan: points -33.14, score 2.92, rank 47/47 < 1457335121 244536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, how long ago was /that/ submitted < 1457335124 95488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is prooftechnique online righ tnow? < 1457335128 10771 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1457335138 779379 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wanted to get on the board before bed :D < 1457335142 14819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very complex-to-run program < 1457335146 279806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suspect it was submitted by PM < 1457335199 930693 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably make a real effort tomorrow at work. I've been reading the wiki on and off all day < 1457335251 424142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I like about BF Joust is that you can compete against yourself indefinitely even if nobody else is playing < 1457335258 718015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing I've noticed is that everyone has their own style < 1457335260 827390 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust rank45plz ---(>>++++)*4(>(-)*20([+{}[-.-+]])%500)*20([-.-+])*-1 < 1457335261 348191 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.rank45plz: points -19.74, score 7.34, rank 47/47 < 1457335264 608852 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1457335288 704255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I write a gimmick program I often see a lot of correlation between its score and the author of the program it plays against < 1457335308 782674 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1457335321 721563 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I like reading the comments in your programs, ais523 < 1457335344 327279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust sometimes >(+)*128<(-)*128(+-)*-1 < 1457335344 930430 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.sometimes: points -5.21, score 14.91, rank 41/47 < 1457335345 947016 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very informative, and often entertaining < 1457335360 310586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: well they're partly for me and partly for other people < 1457335369 227736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about the base64 < 1457335389 641410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it wasn't too hard to get the program into a readable form < 1457335401 60361 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all. A fish one-liner < 1457335426 781899 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the base64 anyway < 1457335428 595697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even developed a sort of "comment grammar" that uses only BF Joust-safe characters < 1457335432 237466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of semicolons rather than commas < 1457335444 506239 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just went and made a macro processor for BFJoust < 1457335450 146777 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has a proper grammar for comments. < 1457335450 280127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it's encoding a Perl script < 1457335453 491954 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1457335456 490595 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains everything. < 1457335459 251842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that generates the program < 1457335473 884683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I base64ed it so that I could put it into the program's source without stray parentheses < 1457335479 839328 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The script grammar I wrote wasn't written to be BF Joust safe at all though < 1457335484 839751 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just linked to the source instead. < 1457335531 141770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linking's fine, and sometimes you have to do that (e.g. anticipation2, which is running up against code size limit) < 1457335540 311002 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, time for sleep. Maybe I'll think of a goofy joust gimmick in the meantime. Night, all < 1457335544 67403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I prefer to have everything in one place < 1457335545 956675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night prooftechnique < 1457335568 351337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people should be able to see how my program was generated just with a copy of the repo, in most cases < 1457335599 686630 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm < 1457335611 232136 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a formal BFJoust spec is in order? < 1457335628 78783 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, BNF and hopefully unambigious semantics. < 1457335628 995926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki page is reasonably formal, and has become more so over time < 1457335646 95086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's some debate about whether the % to {} matching thing even works in BNF < 1457335656 740764 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't describe it in BNF? < 1457335667 481543 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Describe ()% and {} seperately < 1457335672 767539 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And presume compilers resolve it at a later stage. < 1457335685 976789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I'm not sure which categories of languages can describe it in a remotely semantic way < 1457335694 672489 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of things in normal programming languages that you can't describe in BNF < 1457335713 349612 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if something like... < 1457335735 290540 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :1#(2#(1#{2#{}})%2)%2 has any chance of working < 1457335736 740120 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. < 1457335881 161561 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, nope. Definitely not. < 1457335951 509685 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you do about "incompatible" semantics? < 1457335957 747557 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46505&oldid=44193 5* 03Ais523 5* (-4) 10/* External resources */ better (i.e. direct-linkable, also it's the original) link for the origins of BF Joust < 1457335966 790202 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like nesting {} inside ()* inside ()% < 1457335971 586335 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :By making ()* and ()% distinct < 1457335989 914158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: the * meaning the same thing as % thing is just implementation convenience < 1457336001 535427 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1457336006 309945 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But programs are written assuming it. < 1457336022 248671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we allow ()* in the a and b portions of a ()%, inside implementations would just have to suck it up < 1457336032 370835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've fixed programs via editing the hill manually to adjust them for spec changes in the past < 1457336050 582586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some old hill-toppers with ([)*n in them < 1457336070 85053 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hr < 1457336071 309577 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm* < 1457336142 950585 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it'd be possible to write new opcodes that expand to infinite (or extremely long) BFJoust programs. < 1457336174 706288 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457336175 505338 :impomatic!~impomatic@145.2.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1457336182 568122 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-194-98.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1457336188 588411 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1457336205 274772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] < 1457336210 561596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(adapted for current rules) < 1457336215 134857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and syntax) < 1457336218 589706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust comex_the_first_program_ever (>)*9[-]+[>[-]+] < 1457336219 46713 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.comex_the_first_program_ever: points -17.31, score 9.39, rank 47/47 < 1457336223 446435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also let's submit it to a hill that works < 1457336225 65375 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interpreter needs your program to end < 1457336243 702553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ? < 1457336248 364743 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some cases where I wanted to do something in my BFJoust macro processor < 1457336260 25926 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may be possible to write one that can handle an infinite stream of bf characters < 1457336264 784395 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd have to expand to a hundreds of megabytes long script. < 1457336272 687360 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1457336274 557971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, it beats smartlock, probably because smartlock is so special-cased < 1457336297 185050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I'm aware of the problem < 1457336301 581886 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :${defmacro name ... ${name} ... ${name} ....}$ < 1457336308 106901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general it's the reason there's a program size limit < 1457336312 820316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop people writing things that go exponential < 1457336319 187005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biggest example is an if/then/else < 1457336320 845688 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd expand to an exponential length program. < 1457336334 440881 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's expandable to BFJoust. < 1457336347 55603 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it'd be worth it to integrate something like that into a hill? < 1457336354 685754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a (if nonzero then b else c) d expands to a[bd]cd < 1457336375 184222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tends to blow up very quickly < 1457336378 937267 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not generally a problem like that. < 1457336382 920973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the duplication of d < 1457336386 787467 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't blow up too quickly. < 1457336409 581723 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to write the equivalent of continue or break does. < 1457336421 301625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, break < 1457336431 793485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many cunning methods of writing break that I've seen < 1457336445 925811 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyuroki's main loop is basically < 1457336464 256481 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>[... {} anti-defense continue ...])*21 < 1457336503 761560 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1457336523 222578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you mean %21 < 1457336541 564455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also IMO that's inferior to the (>[clear][antidefence])*21 method < 1457336553 910652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it gets tricked by vibrators < 1457336562 701899 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more complex than that < 1457336564 953886 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually < 1457336574 63718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks the nyuroki versus anticipation2 matchup
< 1457336575 938333 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>([... {} [anti-defense] continue ...])*2)*21 < 1457336589 946438 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .. has a ()% somewhere in it < 1457336593 721046 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i didn't include it < 1457336643 863061 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1457336648 55341 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-67-112.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1457336681 542358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it comes down to timer clear, I think? < 1457336721 652745 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. The {} is supposed to represent exiting the timer clear. < 1457336735 473012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wondering if it hit one of the unimplemented cases in anticipation2 but it doesn't < 1457336742 874272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everthing works fine up until the final defense loop < 1457336745 758774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the lock just breaks < 1457336804 517332 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anticipation supposed to hide its flag? < 1457336816 47544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457336828 852489 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki doesn't actually skip a cell unless it's zero for 0 cycles. (>([main clear loop])*2)*21 < 1457336829 209089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the enemy doesn't vary clear pattern, its flag will always be 0 when encountered for the first time < 1457336842 139325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, ([main clear loop])*2 < 1457336850 470479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that < 1457336869 661834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normally I use a specific counter-defence clear loop after the main one rather than just running the main one twice, but those can be hard to write) < 1457336898 802208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why it's called anticipation, it times the opponent's code and anticipates the moment the opponent will zero-check its flag < 1457336905 490442 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also causes an exponential blowup. < 1457336913 178775 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because break + two loops isn't compatible. < 1457336921 426350 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I didn't do it. < 1457336933 302116 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki is basically a long list of things I didn't do because the program would have exponential size. < 1457336956 909537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me about it :-) < 1457336977 383841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the restrictions that come with the size limit < 1457337014 612653 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does anticipiation deal with timer clears? < 1457337017 558480 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it just not < 1457337021 887560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I designed a "minijoust" with the following rules: very serious length limit on programs (short enough that they all fit onto one line of IRC); and in the case of a timeout, whichever program ran the most . instructions wins < 1457337037 714913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: right, they hadn't been around at the time < 1457337051 604727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, they'd been only recently invented < 1457337056 750727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most programs didn't use them < 1457337062 937497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it beats some timer clear programs via the vibration < 1457337114 783590 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the ()*2 pretty much invalidates vibration. < 1457337118 796874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1457337127 623765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vibration is easy to defeat if you expect it < 1457337129 799915 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it hurts in any cases? < 1457337137 973251 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody in their right mind is going to vibrate off their flag. < 1457337142 421890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason I wrote anticipation2 was because someone (maybe even me) submitted a vibration program for fun and it did unexpectedly well < 1457337164 237472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some fast rush programs genuinely can't spare the extra cycle < 1457337194 929523 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's fast enough < 1457337199 725162 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hits cell 30 before cycle 128 < 1457337204 885525 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be vibrated, right? < 1457337221 69774 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it gets caught by a flag or a decoy, it can switch to something more careful. < 1457337229 514321 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it definitely isn't fast rushing anymore. < 1457337272 426391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vibration programs normally leave a decoy to get enough time to zero their own flag < 1457337290 623846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, the reason you need to go quickly is to get inside the decoys of enemies that set multiple < 1457337316 552023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nothing to do with vibrators < 1457337360 391491 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust parity (>+>-)*4(>+>([(+)*10([-{}[-.-+]])%500])*2)*-1 < 1457337360 744887 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.parity: points -19.52, score 7.63, rank 47/47 < 1457337370 181200 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust parity (>)*7(>+>([(+)*10([-{}[-.-+]])%500])*2)*-1 < 1457337370 526358 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.parity: points -14.12, score 10.01, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457337384 539356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IME parity is hardly ever a factor in matchups nowadays, except for sometimes lock-based ones < 1457337389 53223 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust parity (>)*7(>>[(+)*20[-]]))*-1 < 1457337389 186631 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: error: parse error: terminating ) without a matching ( < 1457337397 153507 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust parity (>)*7(>>[(+)*20[-]])*-1 < 1457337397 447616 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.parity: points -13.52, score 10.72, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457337399 334476 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1457337403 196613 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnurd < 1457337406 590808 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-load < 1457337406 723967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily said 14h 51m 28s ago: mrelloman. < 1457337410 599360 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to win the even length tapes only < 1457337416 22284 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the fastest rush ever. < 1457337416 535026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, impomatic is here < 1457337416 668376 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1457337419 593675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: oh, I see < 1457337427 661765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan.netsnail worked like that? < 1457337458 924260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an improved version of that is a fast rush program that only checks every nth cell for the first set cell, but rushes more normally once it finds one < 1457337510 74685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust collision2 (>)*7(>>[([(+)*3[-[-]]>])*-1])*-1 < 1457337510 455807 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.collision2: points -8.62, score 12.87, rank 47/47 < 1457337524 739029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, at this rate we might actually get somewhere :-) < 1457337529 250895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust collision2 (>+)*7(>>[([(+)*3[-[-]]>])*-1])*-1 < 1457337529 598145 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523.collision2: points -15.81, score 9.42, rank 47/47 (--) < 1457337533 370442 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is such a difficult hill. < 1457337537 66023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1457337550 916773 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think given enough time all hills become difficult < 1457337552 892666 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust totally (+--+)*-1 < 1457337553 483669 :zemhill!~cinch@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::1ea:f001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia.totally: points -19.60, score 7.02, rank 47/47 < 1457337557 513441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that at this point, the best way to attack it is with a program that does something really unusual < 1457337560 517846 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you made a rock paper scissors hill it would end up difficult < 1457337571 821044 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1457337576 77853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I don't know, the hill that was basically all turtles got beaten pretty quickly < 1457337576 937844 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the point of a hill, kinda. < 1457337578 569247 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1457337588 870126 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which hill? < 1457337591 676354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'd been playing for a while when that happened < 1457337595 795939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: old version of egojoust < 1457337605 978527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turtles had only been recently invented < 1457337609 458065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they were doing really well < 1457337612 153552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :competent turtles, that is < 1457337621 230295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people had submitted non-working versions of them in the past < 1457337621 893560 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cororoallary: if the hill is easy, you haven't given it enough time < 1457337632 369592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hills get easier sometimes < 1457337658 521498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was that time when someone (not naming names, but wasn't me) submitted a bunch of copies of omnipotence with different names < 1457337662 321558 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to spell, or how to pronounce, corollororary < 1457337666 655111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the time, omnipotence beat every other program < 1457337677 981663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it pushed all the other progams off the hill < 1457337695 276498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hill would have been trivial to top, assuming you can come up with something that beats omnipotence (it's not hard, especially if you know how it works) < 1457337708 226075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, probably wasn't omnipotence < 1457337710 683386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been waterfall3 < 1457337718 935821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think omnipotence ever had 100% wins < 1457337803 448332 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I see < 1457337832 631003 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to implement my 100% win rate bot sometime. < 1457337839 811475 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blatant autogeneration and hill fitting. < 1457337862 583502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people have had that idea < 1457337869 907163 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has the EgoBot bfjoust healed yet? < 1457337874 884339 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1457337875 663648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a) probably possible to do in most practical cases; b) harder than it seems < 1457337887 107160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who hosts egobot? < 1457337894 120627 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea was to decompose all "enemy bots" into tuples of "enemy bot, tape length, parity" < 1457337896 241766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should probably be pinged as I suspect it's pegging a CPU < 1457337902 95985 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then run them all in parallel. < 1457337918 187122 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure it's EgoBot, rather then the hill that's stuck? < 1457337919 915920 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :So decide the best action on that tick, and advance every possible case at once. < 1457337920 350639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: fwiw, it's possible to write a set of programs that it is impossible to collectively beat all of < 1457337923 433548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no < 1457337932 653644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I only /suspect/ it's pegging a CPU < 1457337932 860581 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Someone brought that up last time I talked about it. < 1457337940 151713 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think 47 bots is enough to do it. < 1457337949 717698 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1457337957 582645 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, I'd be surprised if 2 bots wasn't enough to do it < 1457337960 682326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest construction I'm aware of a proof for requires 768 < 1457337968 261439 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am surprised < 1457337971 783414 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you don't have to beat all of them at once. you just have to beat enough of that in each step to gradually push some off the heap, and eventually start beating enough to get to the top < 1457337975 449288 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, the key is < 1457338000 449338 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :If three bots would do +, -, and . on your flag all on the same cycle. < 1457338001 442487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hmm, clever < 1457338015 598360 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just do ++ sometime beforehand, so your flag is 2 when the bots would clear it if it would be 0. < 1457338017 149587 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what? < 1457338025 390324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's clever? not achieving 100% wins? < 1457338034 133607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, this devious gradual hill takeover < 1457338040 738366 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get to the top of the hill with one bot without making it 100% win < 1457338046 102583 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've done that multiple times < 1457338061 958925 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how hard an infinite hill would be to maintain < 1457338063 296182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes but most of the time it's because the program is genuinely better than any of the others < 1457338065 635003 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least a huge one. < 1457338076 211645 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you even brought up how it's not obvious who the best Go player is that google should challenge or something < 1457338077 222385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could create a sort of Swiss hill < 1457338082 875023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where programs only competed against those nearby < 1457338094 25348 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, you'd need a way to remove blurgh bots < 1457338126 499790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw the hill sizes are twice as big as they used to be < 1457338128 802784 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :blurgh bots? < 1457338131 947453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we like the diversity in a larger hill < 1457338142 791127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I assume Taneb is talking about bots that do nothing useful < 1457338147 719389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the syntax check bots we had earlier < 1457338150 844989 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, those < 1457338154 714236 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1457338156 743420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about this < 1457338162 477247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have the exact same breakdown as a previous bot < 1457338168 3643 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a "qualifier"? < 1457338171 275903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get saved < 1457338174 132071 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A set of maybe 10-20 fixed bots. < 1457338183 368572 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you don't get on the hill if you can't 100% sweep, or maybe beat 80% < 1457338190 197819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, we only have one suicide, one nop, etc. < 1457338190 758631 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing advanced or clever. < 1457338215 153818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? how would more than one of the syntax check bots even get to the hill? don't they lose too often to get on the hill? < 1457338222 424719 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a demonstration that you aren't a potato. < 1457338232 167259 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, we're talking about an infinite hill. < 1457338245 521989 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a... what < 1457338255 749422 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hill without a fixed size. < 1457338266 680105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could at least force people to beat simple < 1457338277 900919 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :What'd be a good qualifier bot set? < 1457338283 146342 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hill without a size limit makes no sense < 1457338303 576228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that said, quite a few highly advanced programs lose to simple because its lack of counter-anything causes it to be one cycle faster moving from one tape element to the next than it's possible to detect) < 1457338348 55351 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, perhaps "hill" isn't the right term. Maybe "ladder" < 1457338353 429499 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1457338354 362618 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you could do is lock a few hand-selected bots on the ill < 1457338366 830807 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a hill that's unbounded upwards but has a fixed bottom? < 1457338372 219146 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'd say a set of basic (or not so basic?) bots that bots to get on the hill have to beat. < 1457338373 930659 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a few champions from each year that are hand-checked to make sense < 1457338377 290230 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a few basics < 1457338384 403457 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say... < 1457338391 119240 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if a submission loses to the 10 bottom it falls of