←2016-04-13 2016-04-14 2016-04-15→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:04:43 <boily> `wisdom
00:04:58 <HackEgo> irc/IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays.
00:06:29 <myname> my quote of the day: IRC is a frontend for google with insults
00:07:14 * boily updates the thing that becomes a PDF ♪
00:08:21 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:09:47 <boily> > ord '*'
00:09:48 <lambdabot> 42
00:09:58 <boily> > ord '#'
00:10:00 <lambdabot> 35
00:10:09 <boily> > ord '$'
00:10:11 <lambdabot> 36
00:10:42 <boily> > map chr [0x20..0x3F]
00:10:44 <lambdabot> " !\"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?"
00:19:12 <boily> question: is adu someone?
00:20:25 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
00:21:09 <shachaf> hoily
00:21:11 <oerjan> boily: yes.
00:21:31 <oerjan> why e has recently left us, no one knows.
00:21:38 <oerjan> not even emself.
00:22:09 <shachaf> you may not know, but adu
00:22:13 <boily> hellochaf.
00:22:24 * boily thwacks shachaf. 0.8.
00:23:00 <boily> question: what is Algae II? is it an esolang, or an abstract concept?
00:23:32 <shachaf> `? algae
00:24:05 <HackEgo> algae? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:24:08 <boily> `? alg. ii
00:24:16 <HackEgo> Algae II, the successor class to Algae I. Discusses hydroponics and such.
00:24:25 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/alg. ii
00:24:37 <oerjan> boily: i believe it is a pun on algebra hth
00:24:50 <boily> abstract concept it is tdh
00:24:56 <HackEgo> boily boily oerjan hppavilion[1]
00:24:58 <shachaf> "Algebra II" is a standard high school mathematics class in the united states hth
00:25:37 <shachaf> but Algae II typically is taught to much younger children
00:25:50 <shachaf> as part of the Hooked on Hydroponics program
00:28:46 <boily> ...
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00:34:34 <hppavilion[1]> What does this channel think of AOP?
00:34:52 <hppavilion[1]> @messages-lud
00:34:52 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 1m 42s ago: <hppavilion[1]> myname: I was just being a bad person. <-- please report to the next #esoteric sensitivity bootcamp hth
00:35:03 <boily> hppavellon[1]. how do you typeset an ő?
00:35:14 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I don't?
00:35:53 <oerjan> boily: iirc \H{o}
00:35:59 -!- tromp has joined.
00:36:23 <hppavilion[1]> #Tromp2016
00:36:58 * oerjan is going to guess tromp has heard enough of those jokes to be sick of them.
00:37:23 <shachaf> oerjan: when did that ever stop this channel before hth
00:37:41 <oerjan> *twh
00:37:46 <boily> oerjan: tdh, but I was mislead by the error message. the ős were fine, I just forgot to escape b_jonas' underscore.
00:37:54 <boily> s/lead/led/
00:37:54 <oerjan> aha
00:38:05 <shachaf> oerjan: didn't it read like a rhetorical question hth
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00:38:55 <oerjan> ending rhetorical questions in hth is scow.
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00:39:28 <oerjan> hm a missed canaima
00:39:48 <hppavilion[1]> boily: What are you doing, anyway?
00:40:07 <shachaf> ? canaima
00:40:10 <boily> hppavilion[1]: updating the wisdom PDF!
00:40:14 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Yay!
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00:40:29 <shachaf> oerjan: what's the correct ending twh
00:40:43 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Why not just script it to generate a new wisdom PDF once a month?
00:41:23 <oerjan> `learn Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people that have no idea why they're here.
00:41:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'canaima': Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people that have no idea why they're here.
00:41:40 <oerjan> `learn Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people who have no idea why they're here.
00:41:43 <HackEgo> Relearned 'canaima': Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people who have no idea why they're here.
00:41:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Um, shachaf forgot to `
00:42:03 <hppavilion[1]> hth
00:42:15 <shachaf> well, that would have just been another line of spam
00:42:22 <shachaf> this outcome was optimal
00:42:35 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: My point is that oerjan didn't check if canaima was already defined
00:42:44 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Unless they did it via PM
00:42:54 <shachaf> oerjan knows the wisdom database by heart
00:43:02 <shachaf> and anyway `learn confirmed that it wasn't defined
00:43:11 <boily> hppavilion[1]: well... it's *slightly* more complex than that. also, some people in this here chännel like to make my life harder by being LaTeXly creative.
00:43:20 <boily> I'm already missing:
00:43:22 <boily> `? ^
00:44:00 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Ah
00:44:05 <HackEgo> ​^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator.
00:44:40 <hppavilion[1]> Wooooooooow.
00:44:46 <hppavilion[1]> I somehow never noticed that
00:44:56 <hppavilion[1]> _\/_
00:45:00 <hppavilion[1]> \_/
00:45:02 <boily> if you have a Github account, I'll add you to the List. you'll have Full Commit Access!
00:45:16 <hppavilion[1]> I do, but I probably should not be trusted with such a thing
00:46:37 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Unless you want e.g. a one-sixth-functional industrial-grade search engine for Wisdom that will never be touched again
00:47:07 <hppavilion[1]> Though an GUI for browsing wisdom- complete with links and a bit of markup- might actually be a good idea...
00:49:12 <oerjan> doesn't pdf support links these days anyway
00:49:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: True
00:49:30 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But it doesn't have a high-level scripting language
00:57:12 <boily> it does. Adobe Reader supports JavaScript.
00:57:41 <boily> also, did you know you could embede interactive 3D content in a PDF? in two widely-undocumented idiosyncratic formats?
01:01:06 <boily> brontosaurii had mapoly teeth???
01:04:07 <oerjan> *brontosauri
01:06:36 <shachaf> oerjan: that's not the plural of brontosaurius hth
01:06:47 <oerjan> indeed
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01:07:13 <oerjan> it would be the vocative, though.
01:08:17 <boily> brontosaure?
01:09:27 <oerjan> presumably.
01:09:37 <boily> `le/rn Canada/We apologize for Canada's lack of existence.
01:09:46 <HackEgo> Relearned «canada»
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01:12:14 <boily> #tromp2016
01:13:13 <oerjan> boily: hey :(
01:13:32 <boily> sorry.
01:13:41 * boily untromp2016s tromp
01:14:00 <oerjan> i meant the canada. what was it anyway, the browser isn't loading.
01:14:04 <oerjan> oh hm
01:14:14 <oerjan> oh there
01:14:37 <shachaf> #c++2017
01:14:43 <boily> you want to rebigscotlandify Canada?
01:15:26 <shachaf> oerjan: how about a command to view the previous version of a file
01:15:46 <boily> `le/rn Canada/Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big.
01:15:52 <shachaf> or even a list of the contents of every file that the last command modified, pre-modification
01:16:27 <HackEgo> Relearned «canada»
01:16:58 <oerjan> boily: hey i wasn't confirming
01:17:33 <oerjan> shachaf: be my guest
01:17:33 <boily> aarghghghrghrgghhghghrg.
01:17:49 <oerjan> i was trying to catch up to recent HackEgo changes
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01:21:44 <shachaf> `echo a > test
01:21:44 <HackEgo> a > test
01:21:46 <shachaf> oops
01:21:50 <shachaf> `` echo a > test
01:21:59 <boily> `? code
01:22:04 <shachaf> `` echo b > test
01:22:40 <HackEgo> No output.
01:22:48 <shachaf> HackEgo: you're too slow hth
01:23:35 <boily> `learn_append comics The content of this list is not to be questioned.
01:24:01 * boily mapoles the HackEgo
01:25:53 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/comic: No such file or directory. \ Learned 'comic': The content of this list is not to be questioned.
01:25:56 <HackEgo> ​[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078...
01:25:57 <HackEgo> No output.
01:26:11 <oerjan> wat
01:27:46 <shachaf> `mkx bin/before//lastfiles | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r -2 "$f"; done
01:27:47 <HackEgo> bin/before
01:27:51 <boily> `` rm wisdom/comic
01:27:53 <HackEgo> No output.
01:27:54 <shachaf> `before
01:27:58 <HackEgo> wisdom/comic//The content of this list is not to be questioned.
01:28:05 <shachaf> hm
01:28:09 <shachaf> `lastfiles
01:28:09 <HackEgo> wisdom/comic
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01:28:20 <shachaf> why is bin/before not in lastfiles twh
01:28:29 <shachaf> `cat bin/lastfiles
01:28:30 <HackEgo> hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\n"
01:28:34 <boily> `` echo -n ' The content of this list is not to be questioned.' >>wisdom/comics
01:28:36 <HackEgo> No output.
01:28:37 <shachaf> `` hg log -l 1
01:28:40 <HackEgo> changeset: 7381:dd55338ff279 \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Thu Apr 14 00:28:35 2016 +0000 \ summary: <boily> ` echo -n \' The content of this list is not to be questioned.\' >>wisdom/comics
01:28:49 <boily> bon. m'a finir par l'avoir, maudite commande de mes deux.
01:30:26 <oerjan> boily: wat
01:30:29 <oerjan> `? comics
01:30:31 <HackEgo> Recommended comics include Genius Stick, Stuck Girl, and Home of the Order. \ The content of this list is not to be questioned.
01:31:08 <oerjan> `revert
01:31:21 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:31:23 <oerjan> `? comics
01:31:24 <HackEgo> Recommended comics include Genius Stick, Stuck Girl, and Home of the Order.
01:31:47 * boily can't append
01:31:56 <oerjan> `le/rn_append comics/The content of this list is not to be questioned.
01:31:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'comics': Recommended comics include Genius Stick, Stuck Girl, and Home of the Order. The content of this list is not to be questioned.
01:32:50 <shachaf> `rm test
01:32:52 <HackEgo> No output.
01:32:54 <shachaf> `before
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01:33:01 <HackEgo> test//b
01:33:56 <boily> DING ♪ new PDF version! updated #, A, B and C entries.
01:34:14 <boily> coppro: copprello! PDF update!
01:35:01 <shachaf> `learn Canada is a conspiracy invented by Big Maple to keep people from the truth.
01:35:04 <HackEgo> Relearned 'canada': Canada is a conspiracy invented by Big Maple to keep people from the truth.
01:35:07 <shachaf> `before
01:35:08 <HackEgo> wisdom/canada//Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big.
01:35:13 <shachaf> `revert
01:35:15 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:35:19 <shachaf> oerjan: hth
01:35:42 <coppro> boily: :O
01:35:46 <coppro> boily: Homestuck AND PDF
01:35:51 <coppro> it's like my birthday!
01:35:53 <coppro> which was this week!
01:35:55 <coppro> err last week!
01:35:56 <shachaf> boily: we already have pbflist
01:35:57 <coppro> but still!
01:36:01 <shachaf> boily: might as well add pdflist hth
01:36:09 <shachaf> if you can figure out how to make a backwards b
01:37:34 <boily> I should chapterize the *lists...
01:37:38 <oerjan> d hth
01:38:04 <boily> hppavilion[1]: I didn't catch your github username?
01:38:14 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I didn't give it :P
01:38:40 <boily> damn. I thought I was being smooth :D
01:38:56 <boily> you're playing hard to commit, I see.
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02:01:40 <hppavilion[1]> boily: ...
02:02:31 <hppavilion[1]> Why has nobody made a language called *C?
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02:12:32 <boily> hppavilion[1]: one day you'll slip, and that info will be mine. mwah ah ah.
02:18:58 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I want to see a grammar-type that can parse all decidable grammars. That would be nice. Except for when people actually use it to parse a non-context-free grammar. Then it's just painful.
02:20:38 <boily> eh?
02:21:10 <hppavilion[1]> boily: A grammar type (like LR or LALR or Recursive-descent)
02:21:32 <hppavilion[1]> boily: That can parse all decidable grammars (including, for example, the Language of Primes in Ternary)
02:22:22 <boily> I have a feeling you'd hit Gödel sooner or later in there. probably the former.
02:22:41 <hppavilion[1]> boily: The tarpit version is BNF with the new operators $<rule>, <immediate-rule-name>++, and <immediate-rule-name>--{<rule1>}{<rule2>}
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02:23:13 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Probably not; It's just the grammatical equivalent of a TM
02:23:24 <hppavilion[1]> (TMs represent grammars, remember?)
02:23:36 <boily> I don't remember, but I'll trust you on that.
02:23:52 <boily> CT and all that sort of thing, functors between TMs and grammars.
02:24:06 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Yeah, a TM is said to accept a string (as part of the language it represents) if... it halts. Shit.
02:24:37 <hppavilion[1]> I guess Godel might just show up in the form of the Halting Problem
02:24:45 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, that guy is tricky.
02:25:04 <boily> and strike.
02:25:23 <boily> time to go espouse the shape of a mattress...
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02:25:31 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Wait, no, but it's a BNF for all /decidable/ grammars
02:25:33 <hppavilion[1]> Shit
02:26:13 <hppavilion[1]> @tell boily [the moment after you left:] boily: Wait, no, but it's a BNF for all /decidable/ grammars // And halting is undecidable
02:26:13 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:28:34 <hppavilion[1]> "LR(k) grammars can be efficiently parsed with an execution time essentially proportional to the length of the string."[7]
02:28:34 <hppavilion[1]> For every k≥1, "a language can be generated by an LR(k) grammar if and only if it is deterministic [and context-free], if and only if it can be generated by an LR(1) grammar."
02:28:53 <hppavilion[1]> Um, can k be <= 1 and != 0?
02:31:48 <hppavilion[1]> Here's a rather strange idea
02:32:03 <hppavilion[1]> A parser that accepts an infinite string that follows some combinatorial pattern
02:32:05 <hppavilion[1]> And parses it
02:32:09 <hppavilion[1]> (based on a grammar)
02:32:11 <hppavilion[1]> In finite time
02:32:21 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Have you heard of such a thing?
02:32:25 <shachaf> ?
02:32:54 <shachaf> Ah.
02:32:55 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: A program to parse infinite strings in finite time, given that the infinite string is representable in finite space
02:33:14 <shachaf> Well, depends on how you represent it.
02:33:16 <hppavilion[1]> Using some sort of lazy-evaluated sequence combinators or somesuch
02:33:35 <shachaf> If you represent an infinite string as a Turing machine that generates it, for example, you won't have much luck.
02:33:43 <hppavilion[1]> I would doubt it
02:34:22 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I'm thinking that you have some primitive set of generators (likely hauntingly similar to S and K, knowing the way CS works) that accept generators or strings and produce new strings
02:34:49 <shachaf> Well, you don't want anything Turing-complete.
02:34:56 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I would think not
02:37:14 <hppavilion[1]> A primitive set something like like cycle [...], reverse [...], chain [...], and filter f [...] (where f is some simple String -> Bool function defined in a sublanguage)
02:38:14 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, and [...] is a special syntax for directly declaring a sequence
02:38:28 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, chain needs to have two arguments
02:38:53 <hppavilion[1]> cycle seq is the first element in seq, then the second, then the third, forever
02:39:06 <hppavilion[1]> And when it reaches the end it starts over
02:39:26 <hppavilion[1]> reverse seq reverses a finite sequence
02:40:00 <hppavilion[1]> chain seq tfr returns each element in the first seq, then, when it runs out, each element in the second
02:40:35 <hppavilion[1]> And filter f seq returns each element in seq s.t. f returns true
02:42:13 <hppavilion[1]> f can be made from q NAND p, contains(seq1, seq2), firstNCharacters(seq, n), and c == d (where c and d are sequences)
02:42:21 <hppavilion[1]> Sequences can only contain characters
02:42:29 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: is that a good set of primitives?
02:43:26 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, contains has to be contains(seq, c) because f is applied character-by-character (if it isn't, we get dangerously close to tag systems)
02:43:52 <shachaf> Why are you asking me?
02:44:07 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Because you responded last time
02:44:43 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: And I figured there was a chance that you wanted to see my answer to your ~question
02:57:21 <Sgeo_> https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/4csbma/kickstarter_nonstarters_the_new_era_of_modern/
03:03:18 <\oren\> bah, the real future of computers is decimal!
03:03:28 <\oren\> or more like the past
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03:10:04 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo_: I'm going to go cry now
03:10:25 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: The REAL future of computers is in pii-cimal
03:10:41 * oerjan wonders if hppavilion[1] has even heard of a general chomsky grammar.
03:11:15 * hppavilion[1] googles general chomsky grammar
03:12:13 * hppavilion[1] cannot find the wikipedia article on it, and is thus scared
03:14:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Are there any widely-used programming languages which are of a regular grammar?
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03:21:02 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think i used the wrong technical term. try chomsky hierarchy.
03:21:32 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: maybe forth counts :P
03:21:32 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well I've heard of /that/
03:21:39 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That's what I thought
03:21:48 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Though doesn't forth have nesting?
03:21:53 <hppavilion[1]> Defining new words?
03:22:04 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, maybe that doesn't let you nest
03:22:35 <oerjan> maybe not forth then.
03:22:50 <oerjan> i don't know what else would count.
03:23:14 <hppavilion[1]> I WILL BE USING Van Wijngaarden grammarS FROM NOW ON
03:23:21 <hppavilion[1]> THEY SOUND AWESOME
03:24:16 <shachaf> oerjan: chomsky is a linguist not a general hth
03:24:55 <hppavilion[1]> (strictly speaking, I will be using some modification I create that makes it uselessly more powerful; perhaps including the ability to recognize whether a given TM halts in later forms)
03:24:57 <shachaf> or is general chomsky's grammar related to general tso's chicken?
03:27:39 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a pseudo-solution to the Halting Problem that, given a program, will tell you whether or not it will halt, with the occasional possibility of false positives or negatives? (I (but not O) is forbidden for simplicity)
03:28:16 <hppavilion[1]> It would be cool if there was a pseudo-solution (sort of like those pseudo-counterexamples to Fermat's Last Theorem) that I could write into a compiler to freak out CS students who use it
03:29:07 <shachaf> Yes.
03:29:12 <shachaf> willHalt(_) = true
03:29:17 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That's cheating
03:29:24 <shachaf> If it doesn't halt, just tell them they haven't run it for long enough.
03:29:40 <shachaf> OK, just run it for BB(n) steps for small n.
03:30:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: But you can write a program that /very clearly/ won't halt, but the compiler would still say it will
03:31:03 <hppavilion[1]> (alternatively, a language that is /very nearly/- but not quite- TC (including intermediate-level CS experiment problems and the kinds of things a CS student would test with, but excluding really obscure ones), for which halting is decidable)
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04:51:39 <\oren\> C without malloc is a push down automaton.
04:53:31 <\oren\> (unless you use undefined behaviour to write our own malloc)
04:55:01 <pikhq> C with or without malloc is a FSA.
04:56:06 <\oren\> oh, right.
04:58:29 <shachaf> pooch-down automaton
04:59:26 <pikhq> On a purely unrelated note, is there a surgeon in the bay area who can replace my head? Because fuck my head.
05:00:23 <shachaf> How's your head?
05:00:55 <pikhq> In quite a bit of pain at the moment!
05:06:41 <shachaf> pikhq: might i interest you in this http://www.amazon.com/On-Having-No-Head-Rediscovery/dp/1878019198 hth
05:06:53 <shachaf> s/this //
05:08:36 <pikhq> Thx
05:13:08 <shachaf> pikhq: do you just mean that you have a headache
05:13:23 <pikhq> Yes.
05:13:57 <pikhq> Which is a common occurance for me.
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05:25:34 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: are you sure? (notwithstanding the bounded storage) you can access an arbitrary portion of the stack from C, which is vastly more powerful than PDA
05:26:51 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: one direct counterexample: http://mazonka.com/brainf/stackbfi.c
05:26:58 <pikhq> lifthrasiir: Accessing other stack frames is, of course, UB. :)
05:27:25 <lifthrasiir> pikhq: unless you chain the existing stack frame with a pointer.
05:27:33 <pikhq> Right, yes, that's valid.
05:27:36 <lifthrasiir> stackbfi is exactly that kind of thing
05:27:37 <pikhq> Like what you linked to there.
05:28:00 <pikhq> Neat trick, honestly.
05:28:07 <lifthrasiir> I like that
05:28:09 <pikhq> If very much limited.
05:28:36 <lifthrasiir> I remember a similarly constructed BF interpreter which won in IOCCC
05:29:30 <pikhq> Though it's *slightly* incorrect: there may exist valid negative return values for getchar().
05:29:40 <pikhq> (i.e. EOF is not the *only* possible return value that's negative)
05:29:50 <pikhq> (this is because char may be signed)
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07:23:15 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, random reminders of the frailty of this mortal coil and your lifelong march to the inevitable end.
07:23:23 <hppavilion[1]> Always brightens up my day.
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09:38:44 <b_jonas> wow, explorer is now called "File Explorer" in windows 10?
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12:20:32 <b_jonas> Is there a way to do "git diff --name-status", "git diff --cached --name-status" or the combination "git status -s" but also show list unchanged files?
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12:46:37 <izabera> http://hjson.org/
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13:21:30 <olsner> pikhq: I think even if char is signed, getchar() will return the "unsigned" value as an int
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16:35:17 <b_jonas> Why the heck can't we finally have a programming language standard library specification where the array sort functions and ordered-dictionary types and similar are specified in such a way that they spell out the precise guarantees even if the underlying comparison function is nondeterministic or not transitive?
16:36:16 <b_jonas> We don't live in the 1980s anymore when it made sense to write quicksort functions that will actually write the arrays out of bounds if the comparison function is invalid.
16:37:05 <b_jonas> I think most of the implementations we actually use are behaved sanely even for wrong comparison functions, but nobody bothers to guarantee this in specs, so I may have to read and fork existing implementations just to be able to guarantee this in the future.
16:37:18 <gamemanj> If the comparison function is nondeterministic or not transitive, then... is there any one correct sorted order?
16:37:40 <b_jonas> C++ specifically makes it undefined behaviour if you use a wrong comparison function, so it can use one of those qsort functions that just crash.
16:38:31 <b_jonas> gamemanj: no, but the sort function can still guarantee that it gives a permutation of the input, which is important, and it could still give bounds on the runtime.
16:41:08 <b_jonas> The specs can even go further, for compare functions that are partly well-behaved: if the range of values has a (non-observable theoretical) partial equivalence sigma, and a total order on the equivalence classes of sigma, and the comparison function behaves consistently right for two non-equivalent elements by comparing their equivalence classes, and can behave in any way for two equivalent elements;
16:41:41 <gamemanj> Simple solution: Why do you even have non-deterministic comparison functions in your code?
16:42:00 <b_jonas> then a well-written sort function could guarantee that the output is a permutation of the input such that non-equivalent elements are ordered correctly in the output.
16:43:45 <gamemanj> Under what practical situation do you get into such a situation?
16:43:47 <b_jonas> gamemanj: for bug isolation in cases when the comparison has a bug (I can point to at least one such case), or for implementing a safe high-level language that isn't allowed to crash but exposes a sort function or ordered-dictionary type with arbitrary comparison functions defined in that high-level language, including possibly sandbox languages that execute untrusted code.
16:44:01 <b_jonas> s/comparison/comparison implementation/
16:45:00 <b_jonas> The first case is entirely practical, for in theory you'd just implement the correct comparison function instead of a buggy one.
16:45:10 <gamemanj> Bug isolation, ok, that makes sense. As for a safe language that isn't allowed to crash... new byte[0xFFFFFFFF]
16:45:15 <b_jonas> The second one is both theoretical and practical.
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16:46:48 <gamemanj> "Safety" is impossible if the user can consume all the resources on the system, which means a completely safe language has to keep track of memory and CPU usage.
16:46:52 <b_jonas> gamemanj: oh come on, there are various different definitions for what sort of safety a language guarantees. I know a language (whether safe or not) can't be total, but some languages guarantee that they at least abort safely rather than trashing memory, even if you run out of memory. That's definitely theoretically possible (although there are practical bugs in implementations).
16:47:19 <b_jonas> gamemanj: I'm not going to try to spell out a particular definition of safety here, and there's more than one non-equivalent ones.
16:47:39 <gamemanj> The point I'm trying to make is that if sort goes into an infinite loop, there needs to be detection in place for this sort of case anyway.
16:47:57 <b_jonas> But even for a not-really-safe language like perl, it's better to use perl 5.8 (or something) which has a sort function that doesn't just segfault if you give it the wrong comparison function (as a bug).
16:49:23 <b_jonas> gamemanj: you can write a sort that doesn't go into an infinite loop even if the comparison function is wrong, but I'm more worried about duplicating and losing items of the array, or indexing past an array, rather than an infinite loop. Bad sort implementations do the latter two.
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16:55:47 <gamemanj> Well, a sort function should definitely not SIGSEGV or outright break if it's given a weird comparison function. To me, an infinite loop makes sense simply because if it's inconsistent, the array is never "sorted".
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17:52:04 <hppavilion[1]> I have managed to convince myself to a point of view where I don't see Hitler as evil.
17:52:18 <hppavilion[1]> This is cool.
17:52:34 <myname> well, not really
17:52:40 <gamemanj> ...
17:53:50 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: I see him as a deeply disturbed man who should have been seeing a psychiatrist instead of being put into a position of power
17:54:12 <hppavilion[1]> (and, if myname was responding to me, then the above message is directed at them too)
17:54:13 <gamemanj> So, basically, you don't see him as evil, you see him as nuts.
17:54:17 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Yes
17:54:34 <gamemanj> ...the difference?
17:54:54 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: In fact, I prefer to see him as a person who genuinely /thought/ he was doing the right thing, but who was so screwed up that he didn't realize that what he was doing very clearly wasn't
17:54:54 <myname> how does being nuts imply not being evil?
17:55:05 <hppavilion[1]> myname: See ^
17:55:11 <gamemanj> myname: Insanity defense, probably.
17:55:16 <hppavilion[1]> Now, it's not necessarily the accurate interpretation
17:55:25 <hppavilion[1]> But it's a pretty decent interpretation
17:55:36 <myname> so, you basically say chaotic evil doesn't have to be evil?
17:55:38 <gamemanj> And now for something completely different to break hppavilion[1]'s doublethink concentration: "Alas, poor yorick! I knew him, Horatio: A fellow of infinite jest..."
17:55:51 <hppavilion[1]> (I mean, Gravity also isn't "necessarily the accurate interpretation")
17:56:04 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It's not doublethink
17:56:37 <gamemanj> Ok, true, it's not contradictory, it's just... how to put it...
17:57:20 <gamemanj> If you want to go into alternate theories like that, you might want to look at the British Empire and the state of India around that time.
17:57:42 <gamemanj> Then you'll find yourself saying "Everybody was like that at the time, Hitler was just a step further"
17:57:51 <myname> i wouldn't say that i need to believe i am evil is a necessary part in being evil
17:58:05 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: If we keep viewing Hitler as an alien-warlord-god-king sent from hell to do nothing but kill humanity, we lose sight of what is more accurate, that being that hitler was a deeply damaged human being who /really/ shouldn't have been put in control of a country
17:58:32 <myname> that still doesn't make him not evil
17:59:02 <gamemanj> Nobody said Hitler was an alien-warlord-god-king, and everybody agrees he shouldn't have been put in control of a country. Actions define morality, unless they have good justification.
17:59:07 <hppavilion[1]> myname: What he did was most certainly very, /very/ wrong, but if he does not realize that then I can't in good conscience consider him evil
17:59:30 <hppavilion[1]> s/does/did/
18:00:11 <myname> how so?
18:00:30 <hppavilion[1]> This POV is not so much a meaningful opinion on things that matter as it is a way of conveying a message about the nature of morality
18:00:36 <gamemanj> So in your worldview, if I teleported the world's gold into the Sun, but I thought the gold was infectious or something, then I wouldn't be evil?
18:00:43 <shachaf> `olsit 1033
18:00:43 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: olsit: not found
18:00:45 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Correct
18:00:46 * gamemanj gets out his TODO list
18:00:49 <shachaf> `olist 1033
18:00:50 <HackEgo> olist 1033: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
18:00:55 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Why would you be considered evil?
18:01:17 * gamemanj writes "1. Reprogram mind to assert that gold is infectious"
18:01:26 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: That's cheating.
18:01:37 <gamemanj> My past self would be evil,
18:01:42 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
18:01:43 <gamemanj> but my post-mindwipe self would not.
18:01:47 <hppavilion[1]> Pretty much
18:02:10 <gamemanj> Which means my post-mindwipe self gets off scot-free since that's the version of me running around teleporting gold.
18:02:23 <myname> hppavilion[1]: have a look at the anime "eden of the east"
18:02:33 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: You (post-mindwipe) were just trying to help and do what you thought was right, so you can't be considered evil
18:02:45 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I might
18:02:48 <myname> yes you can
18:03:06 <hppavilion[1]> myname: To consider them evil would be a perversion of the concept of right and wrong, IMHO
18:03:16 <myname> why shouldn't i be able to consider someone evil just because he doesn't himself?
18:04:15 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Because, traditionally (in the way everyone else sees it), evil means doing morality-- things even though you know they're morality--.
18:04:28 <myname> no
18:04:42 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: myname: The point of this exercise is not that "Hitler wasn't evil", the point is "Morality is hard, justice is complicated"
18:05:00 <myname> evil in a society means doing things against morality of the society, no matter of you actually knowing or not
18:05:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: That can be how you define it, but that's not how I define it
18:05:28 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: Solution: Eliminate justice, as it is an unnecessary complexity.
18:05:48 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I would call "doing stuff that society says you shouldn't do" is a "Moral Transgression" or something.
18:06:11 <myname> that's how societies work
18:06:13 <hppavilion[1]> myname: "evil" is when you sin (which is not the religious term, it's just one I stole from religion)
18:06:23 <gamemanj> So, basically, you have "doing something wrong but not knowing about it", "doing something wrong and knowing about it"?
18:06:39 <gamemanj> The result is still the same.
18:06:54 <myname> yeah, i would call it intentional evil and unintentional evil
18:06:58 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And sinning is to violate morality despite knowing that morality says not to
18:07:04 <hppavilion[1]> myname: That works; the end result is the same
18:07:19 <hppavilion[1]> myname: But I prefer to give them distinct names; just my preference.
18:07:20 <myname> just because you don't intend to do evil doesn't mean you don't
18:07:28 <gamemanj> I'm pretty sure that if you drank a ton of alcohol, and then, being too drunk to remember that you aren't supposed to drunk-drive, drove a car, and it crashed, you would still lose your license.
18:07:45 <myname> hppavilion[1]: so you are saying killing a person isn't a sin if i don't know better?
18:07:52 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Correct.
18:07:57 <hppavilion[1]> myname: This isn't religious sin
18:08:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: OK, but should someone who commits an unintentional evil be punished? (assuming retributivism, which is a debate unto itself)
18:08:19 <myname> hppavilion[1]: i repeat my anime recommendation: eden of the east
18:08:24 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yes, I will write that down
18:08:29 <myname> it plays a bit with the idea of gamemanj
18:09:14 <gamemanj> another anime with a "fun" idea of morals: Death Note!
18:09:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: The idea of gamemanj?
18:09:28 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: There's an anime about the mere concept of you?
18:09:34 <gamemanj> not that I know of
18:09:47 <gamemanj> If there is, do tell them to stop stalking me
18:10:35 <gamemanj> (and inquire as to how they'd manage it without my noticing if the whole anime was about the concept of me, meaning they'd have to keep a close eye)
18:10:36 <myname> well, if you ever do anything remotely like watching anime, you most likely have alreqdy watched death note
18:10:44 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I chose the word "sin" because it fits with religion well
18:11:01 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Without (the tree of) knowledge, there can be no sin
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18:11:32 <myname> hppavilion[1]: that's great, so everybody can go to heaven if they just wipe their memories
18:11:46 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yes, but it wouldn't be "you" going to heaven
18:11:55 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Also, the analogy stops before heaven
18:12:27 <hppavilion[1]> GTG
18:12:51 <gamemanj> So what happens if the first thing you do after doing evil stuff is wipe your memories of it, but store them in a way that you'll collect them after being deemed "not evil"?
18:13:13 <gamemanj> (Yes this is an obvious reference to something we have already mentioned.)
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18:17:32 <int-e> lambdabot, hmm.
18:18:02 <int-e> ah it's back.
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18:38:41 <int-e> @botsnack
18:38:41 <lambdabot> :)
18:38:56 <int-e> poor thing
18:39:12 * gamemanj thinks for a short while...
18:39:46 <gamemanj> ^def feedlambda bf ++++++++[>++++>++++++++++<<-]++++++++++>>---><[->+>+<<]>-------------.++.+++++++++++++.+++++.-.-----.-------------.++.++++++++.<<<.>>>
18:40:05 <gamemanj> ...
18:40:08 <gamemanj> fungot?
18:40:10 <myname> feedlambda?
18:40:12 <gamemanj> ....noooooo
18:40:19 <gamemanj> fungot's gone
18:40:30 <gamemanj> I was going to have fungot feed lambdabot with a botsnack
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18:43:05 <gamemanj> what happened to fungot... :(
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18:52:43 <int-e> Fun... "Investigating possible switch failure impacting NLCKVME5-1, NLCKVME5-2"
18:53:28 <gamemanj> Is freenode falling apart?
18:54:57 <int-e> this is lambdabot
18:55:06 <int-e> but freenode also seems to have some trouble
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18:56:15 <gamemanj> sets of people being booted off at a time, "some trouble"
18:56:31 <gamemanj> I think we need duct tape
18:56:42 <gamemanj> Or at least, that's what I think you call it
18:56:52 <gamemanj> I prefer the name "sticky tape", but whatever
18:57:04 <int-e> (NLCKVME5-2 is the server lambdabot's VM is on)
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18:57:38 <FireFly> We call it "silver tape" over here
18:58:57 <gamemanj> point is, find the pipes that are leaking connections, and cover it up with tape. Problem solved.
18:59:30 <FireFly> Luckily in these areas we usually have infinite tape
18:59:43 <FireFly> the #esoteric areas I mean
19:00:29 <gamemanj> infinite sticky tape and infinite programming languages that compile to other programming languages solves all problems
19:00:42 <int-e> gamemanj: if you're unlucky you'll just run out of oxygen
19:01:39 <gamemanj> ...wait, what, the pipes have ALREADY FLOODED the room???
19:07:21 <int-e> @metar lowi
19:07:22 <lambdabot> LOWI 141750Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW065 10/04 Q1013 NOSIG
19:10:48 <int-e> lambdabot: again!
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19:34:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Юᓂ곧⎔]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46776 * B jonas * (+1213) Created page with "'''Юᓂ곧⎔''' is an unfinished plan for a programming language by David Madore in the blog post [http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2004-12-03.0813.html#d.2004-12-03.08..."
19:34:54 <b_jonas> Question. Should I count Юᓂ곧⎔ as an ordinary esolang or a joke language?
19:36:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46777&oldid=46726 * B jonas * (+18)
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19:42:35 <shachaf> coppro: do you band with other scs of the hunt
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19:52:52 <hppavilion[2]> P⚭Q ∧ P ∈ 𝔻𝕣 → Q ∈ 𝔻𝕣*
19:53:07 <hppavilion[2]> `? codoctor
19:53:25 <HackEgo> codoctor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:53:42 <hppavilion[2]> `le/rn codoctor/P⚭Q ∧ P ∈ 𝔻𝕣 → Q ∈ 𝔻𝕣*
19:53:48 <HackEgo> Learned «codoctor»
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19:56:53 <hppavilion[2]> centrinia: Hello. New?
19:56:54 -!- centrinia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:57:13 <hppavilion[2]> Huh, centrina was on ##math too
19:57:22 <hppavilion[2]> *centrinia
19:57:45 <int-e> centrinia isn't new
19:58:24 <hppavilion[2]> int-e: Ah, I've never seen em talk
19:59:51 <hppavilion[2]> @ask variable What's it like being a Variable Constantinople? How do your countrymen react to you when you change values?
19:59:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:00:07 <hppavilion[2]> (I did not want to forget that joke before variable comes online)
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20:20:02 <ais523> slightly weird situation here
20:20:11 <ais523> I have a zombie process I'm trying to get rid of
20:20:24 <ais523> I attached a debugger to its parent and forced it to run waitpid/wait, but it blocks
20:20:26 <ais523> any ideas?
20:21:32 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: Aim for the head hth
20:21:40 <ais523> not helpful
20:21:42 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: Shotgun blast to the head should kill any zombie
20:21:58 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: Except chicken zombies
20:22:00 * hppavilion[2] shivers
20:22:07 <ais523> the normal advice is "to kill a zombie you kill its parents" but in this case the parent process is upstart
20:22:28 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: Try reboot?
20:22:38 <ais523> that works but this problem has happened twice now
20:22:42 <ais523> and I don't want to reboot every time
20:22:53 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: *n?x, I assume?
20:22:55 <ais523> and it's not a situation that /should/ be able to occur (zombie process that doesn't show up on wait)
20:22:57 <ais523> and yes
20:23:39 <hppavilion[2]> End-user programming is an interesting thing; however, the only form of it I know of that is accessible to non-programmers is spreadsheets
20:25:04 <hppavilion[2]> (And filter config and such, I suppose, but that is usually absurdly abstracted)
20:25:52 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: Are you in the TC camp or the TFP camp, OOC?
20:25:59 <hppavilion[2]> I think FSAs may actually be useful AND accessible for EUP
20:28:47 <hppavilion[2]> Hex spreadsheet?
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20:37:39 <gamemanj> (in a "narrative" voice) "Little did ais513 know, the 'zombie' process was actually a cockatrice corpse."
20:38:13 <gamemanj> ...wait, 523.
20:38:21 <gamemanj> s/513/523/
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20:41:51 <ais523> so when I detached the debugger, my entire login session went down
20:42:01 <ais523> and the login screen program (IIRC lightdm broke)
20:42:14 <ais523> then when I shut down the system manually from ctrl-alt-f1, it didn't shut down
20:42:36 <ais523> and not even alt-sysrq-o could power the system off (alt-sysrq-b worked though)
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20:44:57 <gamemanj> ...uh, wow.
20:45:17 <gamemanj> If you didn't look at the logs, my theory was the zombie process was a cockatrice corpse.
20:46:38 <gamemanj> (Also, hydraz joined, left, then joined.)
20:47:57 <hppavilion[2]> gamemanj: I think you mean ais += 10
20:48:27 <gamemanj> ...I also misspelt "ais523" as "ais513".
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20:50:17 <hppavilion[2]> gamemanj: Yeah, that's the point
20:50:52 <gamemanj> hppavilion[2]: I was explaining your comment because ais523 didn't see the context (the misspelling)
20:51:11 <hppavilion[2]> gamemanj: ais513 -> 513; ais523 -> 523; 523-513=10; .'. ais513+10=ais523
20:51:30 <hppavilion[2]> gamemanj: I invented a new pseudo-degree a little while ago, by the way.
20:51:35 <gamemanj> ...
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20:52:34 <hppavilion[2]> gamemanj: The codoctorate.
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20:52:58 -!- ais523 has joined.
20:53:02 <hppavilion[2]> Clearly, ais523 was here last time I brought this up
20:53:08 <hppavilion[2]> Oh, he's back. Joke rescinded.
20:53:41 <hydraz> gamemanj: Znc issues.
20:55:59 <hppavilion[2]> gamemanj?
20:58:16 <b_jonas> ais523: I made a page for the esoteric language Юᓂ곧⎔ . Does that count as a language or a joke language, for the purposes of esowiki?
20:59:12 -!- ais523 has changed nick to l`.
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20:59:20 <ais523> ugh, typo
20:59:24 <ais523> let me look at the page
21:00:24 <ais523> b_jonas: given that it doesn't seem to define an actual language, just a source encoding
21:00:28 <ais523> I'm not sure it's a language at all
21:00:35 <gamemanj> people keep appearing and disappearing fast enough that I get the feeling it would be a bad idea to explain what happened while someone was out, since that would just ping other people and make more stuff happen
21:00:49 <gamemanj> which would lead to an endless cascade of stuff happening!
21:01:14 <b_jonas> ais523: encoding of the source of what?
21:01:16 <ais523> in my case, it's basically that the cable connecting the laptop to the router is temperamental
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21:01:24 <ais523> b_jonas: the Юᓂ곧⎔ program
21:01:44 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, it's definitely not a full definition for the language
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21:05:32 <b_jonas> ais523: but there's an example that shows how to define the main function, how to call a print (or printf, who knows) function, so it's not very far from a very sketchy description from which you could make a small but full language. It needs some conditionals, loops, returns, local variable declarations, and either parameter or return type declarations.
21:05:55 <b_jonas> If you added those, it would already be a stack machine.
21:06:23 <b_jonas> So I think it's an unfinished language basically.
21:06:45 <b_jonas> Nobody completed a description or an implementation.
21:07:04 <gamemanj> "conditionals, loops" (etcetc.)? But adding all that stuff might make it less esoteric!
21:07:51 <gamemanj> ..."must not contain ASCII characters other than line feed"...
21:08:01 <gamemanj> So, basically, everything is UTF-8.
21:08:04 <ais523> why not use NEL?
21:08:17 <ais523> it's non-ASCII, and stands for "next line"
21:08:25 <ais523> and many standards have it as a valid vertical whitespace character
21:08:28 <b_jonas> ais523: Yes, I was wondering on that. There's like three unicode characters like that. But I didn't define the language.
21:08:41 <gamemanj> TBH it already looks nuts
21:08:45 <ais523> although it's unclear what it's meant to do that's different from the other whitespace characters
21:08:49 <ais523> maybe it stands for a CRLF pair?
21:08:57 <gamemanj> Also, you better be Japanese if you want to use the language
21:09:13 <gamemanj> since that way your function arguments make sense!
21:09:29 <gamemanj> ...wait a sec... "and the corresponding name in katakana is used within the function definition."
21:09:46 <gamemanj> an interpreter actually has to map from hiragana to katakana!?!?!?
21:09:48 <b_jonas> ais523: I think it's just meant to unambiguously differentiate line separator from paragraph separator, just like how there are unicode characters to unambiguously split the ascii minus or the ascii quotes to different semantical and typographical values.
21:10:11 <ais523> b_jonas: so what's unicode for next paragraph?
21:16:27 <b_jonas> ais523: \x{2028} for line separator, \x{2029} for paragraph separator. both are different from NEL which is \x{85}
21:19:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Юᓂ곧⎔]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46778&oldid=46776 * B jonas * (+4)
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23:21:13 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
23:21:13 <lambdabot> ENVA 142150Z 11006KT 9999 FEW015 SCT040 BKN050 01/00 Q1002 RMK WIND 670FT 12004KT
23:21:41 <oerjan> and here i wrote my dad just two days ago claiming spring was a-coming.
23:23:17 -!- boily has joined.
23:25:15 <oerjan> brrrroily
23:25:33 <oerjan> @metar CYUL
23:25:34 <lambdabot> CYUL 142200Z 03011KT 30SM FEW240 09/M11 A3042 RMK CI2 SLP306
23:25:44 <oerjan> slightly less brrr
23:26:01 <boily> hellørjan!
23:26:07 <boily> it's disturbingly warm today!
23:26:18 <boily> @massages-loud
23:26:18 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 21h 5s ago: [the moment after you left:] boily: Wait, no, but it's a BNF for all /decidable/ grammars // And halting is undecidable
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23:26:27 <oerjan> balancing out trondheim, i take.
23:26:35 <boily> hppavellon[\d].
23:27:11 <boily> the Undecidement is Inevitable.
23:27:15 <boily> @metar ENVA
23:27:15 <lambdabot> ENVA 142150Z 11006KT 9999 FEW015 SCT040 BKN050 01/00 Q1002 RMK WIND 670FT 12004KT
23:27:21 <boily> Ō_Ō!
23:27:43 <oerjan> it's been up to 12 or so in previous weeks
23:27:59 <oerjan> but then it all goes downhill again.
23:28:18 <boily> last week was undefined behaviour.
23:28:23 <oerjan> ic
23:28:53 <boily> but the Bixi bikes are out! new season starts tomorrow! woot!
23:29:17 <oerjan> ...okay
23:29:19 <boily> (probably won't be able to ride them until Saturday; today and tomorrow two cow orkers and I are at a formation.)
23:29:24 <boily> biking is fun!
23:29:50 <oerjan> ah a montreal thing
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23:30:16 <boily> also an Ottawa thing. and a Melbourne thing. and Paris, IIRC hth
23:30:37 <oerjan> well we've had public bikes in trondheim too. dunno if it's still done.
23:32:36 <myname> what are bixi bikes
23:33:11 <boily> mynamello! they are public bikes you rent.
23:33:30 <boily> there are stations with locked bikes. you pay, pick one, ride, and lock it back at another station.
23:33:42 <oerjan> ok looks active http://www.bysykler.no/trondheim/kart-over-sykkelstativer
23:33:44 <boily> or you get a subscription, with a nifty magnetic key.
23:33:56 <myname> okay
23:34:05 <oerjan> different system, presumably.
23:36:13 <boily> they are fun!
23:36:30 <myname> i like my folding bike
23:37:24 <Phantom_Hoover> oi Taneb
23:37:25 <Phantom_Hoover> taneb!
23:37:28 <Phantom_Hoover> is homestuck done yet
23:37:56 <Phantom_Hoover> i saw homestuck was trending on reddit and that the subreddit was all people complaining
23:38:08 <Phantom_Hoover> and i found this image which explained shit which has been obvious for ~4 years http://imgur.com/a/9ucF7
23:38:41 <oerjan> boily: iiuc the norwegian system uses a card
23:39:08 <oerjan> but otherwise sounds like you describe.
23:39:33 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it is.
23:39:52 <Phantom_Hoover> and it was a confused, unsatisfying mess in the end?
23:39:54 <pikhq> Maybe now I'll read it.
23:40:31 <boily> oerjan: I'll take pictures.
23:40:52 <boily> glorious pictures, with closeups of all their fiddly parts. beautiful bikes...
23:41:02 <oerjan> boily: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncQsBzI-JHc
23:41:43 <boily> last time I clicked on one of your links I got a weird tune stuck in my head.
23:41:51 <boily> not sure if it's good for my sanity...
23:42:03 * boily clicks
23:42:04 <oerjan> true. on the other hand this is on topic.
23:42:07 * boily is happy
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23:48:12 <oerjan> also i haven't mentioned i've been on a weird al binge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss_BmTGv43M
23:50:11 <boily> this one is hilarious.
23:50:48 <oerjan> best laugh i've had in ages
23:52:24 <shachaf> boily: have you figured out what a pooch-down automaton is yet twh
23:52:47 <pikhq> Hmmmm.
23:53:33 <boily> hellochaf. simple: it's a stack of pooches all the way down. then it's turtles, that are pooches too.
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